02:03:06 -!- clog has joined. 02:03:06 -!- clog has joined. 02:05:17 -!- Cyndaquil has joined. 02:05:34 -!- Cyndaquil has changed nick to FireFly. 02:44:44 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:54:55 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 03:00:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:46:23 -!- Asztal has joined. 03:48:43 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 04:06:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 04:54:51 Wonder what else than just XHRs it let to do... 04:55:36 consume a lot of CPU? 04:55:55 JavaScript is relatively well sandboxed; ofc, there'd be more of a problem if another bug let the JS escape the sandbox 04:56:25 Such bugs are almost certainity. 04:56:26 still, hearing about a tarball exploit is kind-of funny, just like hearing about image file exploits in Windows 04:57:25 yes 04:57:27 And being able to do arbitrary XHR, its not bound by same-origin. And then one wonders what other nonstandard permissions it has. 04:57:43 same-origin hardly makes a lot of sense, given that it's a tarball 04:58:04 hmm... same origin would presumably mean the local filesystem, I /hope/ it can't XHR there 04:58:26 if the URL is a file:// URL, does XHR ever let you do that? 04:58:28 Applying same-origin here would disallow XHR completely. 04:58:56 Since it would only allow file:// and those can't be XHR'd to. 04:59:24 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"). 05:00:15 ok, I'm glad that file:// can't be XHR'd to 05:00:15 seriously glad 05:00:24 * ais523 vaguely wonders if IE knows that 05:04:02 ais523: AFAIK, XHR'ing file:// makes as much sense as sending form to file:// URL. 05:04:22 at least I can understand what the semantics of the first should be 05:05:05 (besides, you /can/ send forms to file:// URLs, if you have a file whose name ends ?key1=value1&key2=value2, etc) 05:05:34 (the issue is you need a separate file for each possible form input) 05:05:47 hmm... now I want to invent a really weird filesystem driver that effectively creates a CGI filesystem 05:25:50 ais523, oh? 05:26:06 as in, certain filenames automatically do weird things 05:26:15 rather than just get a static file from disc, it's auto-generated, for instance 05:26:19 sort-of like /proc, but different 05:26:45 mhm 05:26:48 ais523, what is XHR? 05:27:03 XmlHttpRequest 05:27:07 ah 05:27:20 basically, it makes an HTTP request from inside JavaScript running on a browser 05:27:27 the XML part is completely irrelevant, presumably there for historical reasons 05:27:35 it's used for AJAX 05:27:41 which, likewise, may not actually involve XML 05:27:46 right 05:30:28 ais523, hm what is a good algorithm for collision detection between 2D circles? 05:30:51 calculate the distance between their centres (using pythagoras) 05:30:53 if that's less than the sum of their radii, they collided 05:30:58 this works in any number of dimensions 05:31:12 circles are particularly easy shapes to do collision detection with :) 05:31:13 ais523, ah good idea 05:31:40 ais523, what about a circle and a rectangle? 05:31:49 that's a bit harder 05:31:59 ais523, the rectangle may be rotated btw 05:32:06 you need to find what point on the rectangle is closest to the centre of the circle, by comparing coordinates 05:32:10 then measure the distance to that 05:32:11 heh, that circle collision one is neat, I've used that before 05:32:21 so, first you determine where the centre of the circle is, in the rectangle's coordinate system 05:32:30 ais523, hm 05:32:30 then you see whether it's nearest one of the corners or one of the sides 05:32:36 FireFly: so have I 05:32:42 and I was really young at the time 05:34:41 ais523, what about collision detection of two circles to make them bounce realistically against each other? 05:34:51 as in, calculating which directions they will bounce off in 05:35:01 they may have different speeds and may not collide head on 05:35:08 collision detection to see whether they hit each other 05:35:14 yep 05:35:19 then, you do the coefficient of restitution algorithms 05:35:28 ais523, hm? 05:35:33 rather neatly, if the balls are perfectly elastic you can just swap the momentums of the two balls 05:35:40 but if they aren't, you need to do a bit of A-level mechanics 05:35:56 ais523, "A-level"? 05:36:10 AnMaster: the exams people in the UK do just before they go to university 05:36:15 ah 05:36:38 ais523, well, perfectly elastic sounds fine here 05:37:05 ais523, what about perfectly inelastic 05:37:23 then you average the momentums, and both balls move at that average 05:37:35 they stay stuck next to each other forever, if it's perfectly inelastic 05:44:30 You can't just swap their momenta; that's only if they hit head-on. 05:47:15 even for glancing blows it works 05:47:25 you don't reverse the momenta 05:47:29 you swap them between the two circles 05:47:48 ais523, what if one is moving faster and hit the other straight from behind? 05:48:01 from straight* 05:48:10 then the one in front ends up moving faster, and the one behind ends up movign slower 05:48:14 *moving 05:48:14 which is correct 05:49:03 ais523, what if one is static and unmovable (say, forming part of the scenery? 05:49:18 then that's a different situation 05:49:22 ais523, indeed 05:49:40 effectively, there are /two/ collisions involved there: circle with circle, and circle with fixed background 05:49:42 lets say a circle bouncing against the edge of the simulation 05:49:45 which changes the situation quite a bit 05:50:07 ais523, no, I meant just a circle and the background 05:50:18 if you have a circle bouncing against a fixed straight line, you just mirror its motion around that line, then translate by the diameter of the circle 05:50:20 which is probably just the screen edges 05:50:29 ais523, ah 05:50:34 AnMaster: no, basically, the only physical reason something wouldn't move is that it's held in place 05:50:40 ais523: maybe I'm not sure what you mean by swapping them. 05:50:46 if you're trying to model the physics, you have to model what's holding it in place 05:50:57 uorygl: before the collision, circle a has velocity v_a, circle b has velocity v_b 05:51:06 afterwards, circle a has velocity v_b, circle b has velocity v_a 05:51:13 ais523, well I'm not exactly. I'm trying to model a semi-realistic game of pong with multiple balls and gravity 05:51:27 Then for glancing blows, they'll move exactly as if they had hit head-on. 05:51:40 uorygl: no, because the velocities are different 05:51:47 for a glancing blow, the velocities are similar beforehand 05:51:49 so they're similar afterwards 05:52:06 whereas for a head-on collision, the velocities change by a lot because they were very different beforehand 05:52:13 Oh, maybe we're not using "glancing blow" the same way. 05:52:14 same formula, different effects 05:52:25 Consider a glancing blow when they're moving in opposite directions. 05:52:26 ooh, I see what you mean now 05:52:34 you're right, you have to allow for that case 05:52:44 ais523, what happens in that case then? 05:53:01 wrong formula? 05:53:04 yes 05:53:10 what I gave was a simplification 05:53:18 I think you have to decompose the momenta into two components and swap only one component. 05:53:22 yep 05:53:28 uhu 05:53:40 * AnMaster currently tracks it as delta_x and delta_y 05:53:53 perhaps it would be easier if AnMaster just learnt basic mechanics 05:53:55 for ease of calculating next position 05:53:57 * uorygl ponders what to call those components. 05:54:15 ais523, I forgot the stuff due to having a bad teacher in high school 05:54:32 uorygl: it's the components normal to the shared tangent that are swapped 05:54:39 and the components parallel to the shared tangent that stay the same 05:54:41 worst physics teacher ever 05:55:05 Yeah. 05:55:16 I wonder why I know this stuff. >.> 05:55:23 Worst physics teacher ever, generated small black holes everywhere. 05:55:34 what I said previously assumed there was no component parallel to the shared tangent, which ofc isn't true in practice 05:55:37 fizzie, XD 05:55:52 AnMaster: if you're trying to be really realistic with the physics, though, you'd model the effects of spin too 05:55:57 Well, it more assumed that the components parallel to the shared tangent were identical. 05:56:03 because people use that a lot in actual table tennis 05:56:05 ais523, I'm not going that far 05:56:09 uorygl: ah,yes 05:56:10 *ah, yes 05:56:12 ais523, or maybe 05:56:13 well 05:56:17 not for the initial version anyway 05:56:25 I.e. as far as momentum went, the system was symmetrical. 05:56:48 ais523, it isn't like the way the ball collides with the paddle is very realistic anyway in pong 05:57:49 Trivia: if a small black hole were charged, it would quickly absorb a particle of the opposite charge and become uncharged; if it were uncharged, it would hardly do anything. Assuming, as a worst-case scenario, that Hawking radiation doesn't work. 05:58:32 well, even if it does, it's unlikely to evaporate instantly 05:58:36 just very quickly 05:58:38 uorygl, who broke it? 05:59:05 ais523, would that radiation be harmful? 05:59:18 Eliezer Yudkowsky. 05:59:25 uorygl, argh XD 05:59:26 there wouldn't be enough of it to measure unless you had an LHC-quality radiation detector 05:59:45 although IIRC it would probably be in the gamma region, so theoretically harmful if you had enough of it 05:59:50 what's up with that name 05:59:54 Well, it depends on the size. How much mass is emitted by a light bulb each second? 06:00:02 I mean, I have seen it mentioned a lot recentlu 06:00:06 recently* 06:00:08 in this channel 06:00:20 I was assuming "small black hole" = a few particles 06:00:24 AnMaster: that's because it's the name of a person that people have mentioned a lot recently. 06:00:36 Specifically, the owner of yudkowsky.net, who writes at lesswrong.com. 06:00:48 uorygl, never heard of those web sites 06:01:27 When I first came across Yudkowsky, I found his stuff very interesting. 06:03:16 So, I guess I recommend it. 06:04:58 heh, some Wikipedian made a list of all the things that are possible in Windows XP but not Windows Vista 06:05:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Features_removed_from_Windows_Vista 06:06:12 That'll be one long list of references after every statement is sourced. 06:06:31 * The Log Off confirmation on the classic Start menu has been removed. <--- this 06:06:47 not that it's that big a problem, just that the entry still says "Log off..." with three dots 06:06:55 it gets me every time as I wait several minutes for the dialog box to come up 06:07:02 no dots, and it wouldn't be a problem 06:07:14 ais523, those dots. what happen instead? 06:07:22 it just logs off, without confirmation 06:07:23 just log out? 06:07:33 ais523, then why waiting several minutes? 06:07:35 but ... at the end of a menu item implies "dialog box coming" pretty much everywhere 06:07:41 AnMaster: because that's how long it takes to log out 06:07:46 ais523, hah 06:07:54 ais523, why are you using vista? 06:07:58 incidentally, I found something similar in Gnome network-manager today 06:08:04 I mean, xp or 7 I can understand 06:08:07 AnMaster: public terminals, I'm not always on my laptop 06:08:17 but vista is just incomprehensible 06:08:32 the network-manager problem is that if you try to make a global change, you get a ... at the end of whatever the OK button is called 06:08:44 because you need to enter an auth password to change settings globally 06:08:45 which makes sense 06:08:54 ais523, all windows computers at the university I'm at seems to run English XP Pro 06:08:57 but if you already have a remembered password (i.e. on the sudo timeout), the dots are still there 06:09:00 even though it doesn't prompy 06:09:01 *prompt 06:09:06 AnMaster: it's a mix of XP, Vista, and 7 here 06:09:09 ais523, but with classicl look 06:09:13 the computer in my office runs 7 06:09:14 classic* 06:09:16 as in 06:09:21 it looks like windows 2000 06:11:25 "Windows Vista restricts the amount of memory DPMI programs can have to 32 MB (33,554,432 bytes). The limitation applies to DPMI programs running inside NTVDM. [59] The same is not true for previous versions of Windows." 06:11:28 kind-of strange 06:11:37 and an issue for C-INTERCAL, I think 06:11:44 given that it uses NTVDM when running the DOS build under Windows 06:12:27 "The Gopher protocol is no longer supported." 06:12:28 ARGH 06:12:35 except 06:12:39 it wasn't in XP either iirc 06:13:01 ais523, why can't you compile C-INTERCAL to use cygwin or something? 06:13:13 ais523, or just windows directly 06:13:17 no need for dos at all 06:13:17 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:13:20 cygwin you can, just that's a different build 06:13:23 oerjan, iwc 06:13:27 oerjan, hours ago 06:13:30 oerjan, remind me 06:13:31 and running the DOS build on Windows is useful, mostly because it's hard to test otherwise 06:13:38 um i haven't read it yet 06:13:44 oerjan, HAHAHA 06:13:53 oerjan, fantasy theme 06:14:00 just brought up mezzacotta 06:14:07 oerjan, fantasy + death even 06:14:41 what's with all the iwc reminders in here? 06:14:55 ais523, "who is first to mention IWC" game 06:15:02 ais523, between me and oerjan 06:15:20 oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game 06:15:21 ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so? 06:15:31 hah I mentioned it before you 06:15:44 (by 1/3 of a second or so) 06:15:53 I mentioned it first at this end 06:15:57 let's let clog settle 06:16:15 (and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"... 06:16:17 ) 06:16:19 ais523, also how is it worse? 06:16:36 22:15:20 oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game 06:16:37 22:15:21 ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so? 06:16:38 ais523, good idea to do that! 06:16:40 clog says I win 06:17:03 ais523, I do not acknowledge clog as an authority in these matters 06:17:56 I say ais523 wins, too. Not that my authority is any more justified. 06:17:56 14:10:45 < ais523> oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game 06:17:56 14:10:45 < AnMaster> ais523, didn't you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so? 06:18:04 You cannot escape the win. 06:18:42 we need exact sub-second timestamps from precisely aligned clocks or something 06:19:35 For the records, my timestamps were 16:10:45 for both. 06:20:19 ais523 wins 06:20:27 (and please don't let this turn into a metawar of "who can mention 'who can mention first' first"... 06:20:29 oklopol: A winner is him. 06:20:46 i never metaw *hit by falling anvil* 06:20:55 i wonder when AnMaster'll realize he's always the one with the bigger lag 06:20:56 oerjan, :D 06:21:48 oklopol, but I win due to using ipv6 to connect. Since the lag introduced by the tunnel is not counted due to it being so cool or something. Unless ais523 is also using ipv6? 06:22:02 AnMaster: also i saw ais523 first too 06:22:10 ah 06:22:23 then it's a bit hard to say who wins 06:22:55 well i suppose you win if none of the lag is counted 06:23:17 oklopol, oh the ipv4 lag is counted 06:23:22 just not the bit due to the tunnel 06:23:30 err right, yeah 06:23:31 which is indeed hard to calculate 06:23:46 oklopol, really it should be based on locally hitting enter 06:23:51 which is very hard to calculate 06:24:53 but you had the advantage based on the fact that you made the comment that triggered it 06:24:53 so you'll have seen the trigger first 06:25:17 ais523, good point 06:25:28 ais523, however I wrote a much longer line 06:25:41 ais523, so I must have started writing that line way before you did 06:25:42 The comment with the smaller SHA1 hash wins. 06:25:49 fizzie, XD 06:25:59 fizzie: have you calculated them? 06:26:06 also, hashing based on what content? 06:26:11 just the bit after the nick? the whole message/ 06:26:16 if the whole message, as seen from which server? 06:26:22 or are we writing nicks as 06:26:27 does the final newline count? 06:26:41 Just the message parameter part. And without the final newline; that's a message separator anyway. 06:26:50 "The bit after the nick", that is. 06:27:07 $ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum 06:27:07 0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef - 06:27:11 $ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum 06:27:11 e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 - 06:27:14 okay 06:27:17 I *do* win 06:27:35 according to that 06:28:07 Just the message parameter part, without the final newline, as that's the part that the user has the most control over. 06:28:12 with sha512sum you would win ais523 : 98e07e1aaff52703459c37d2c069dcf245e7a9dff8b217cc132fdbe52cd8a4399e7bd474ae5a34c3fed86aa8d6db7f2148ab8077dcdeb053acabede44ad8b435 vs 35fd098b72b5af8f3314c4d94df407c1bb0b06b86b4f04cd2b8a220a05600f292d5967f2bf9c8f55f979de6173d65ce5b70620bf8d296f018667b51afa8cb31f 06:28:23 $ echo -n 'oh, it'"\'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | sha1sum4bdbea4adce1244fc1992c25027dc83510382b72 - 06:28:25 $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"\'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | sha1sum 06:28:26 870b779382fc1782cab65d33fe31b346ac9d6d6f - 06:28:36 I win with SHA1 too 06:28:41 ais523, see above 06:28:52 although, strangely my client seems to have clipped a newline 06:28:55 I get a different result 06:29:02 AnMaster: me = SHA1, you = SHA512 06:29:06 that's why the results are different! 06:29:08 ais523, see above that 06:29:12 $ echo -n "ais523, didn't you play \"who can say hi first\" with ehird about a year ago or so?" | sha1sum 06:29:12 0a09ff71a80478e5950fb22b21de5e26c80e14ef - 06:29:12 $ echo -n "oh, it's worse than the ehird/me hi game" | sha1sum 06:29:12 e487aa9edb31f3169ce431aec818ea1339679c78 - 06:29:15 that bit 06:29:23 ais523: Your way gives an extra \ in the hash input. 06:29:30 ais523: Just remove the sha1sum part and you'll see. 06:29:30 what fizzie said 06:29:37 ah 06:29:41 * oerjan notes this metawar got far out of hand 06:29:47 `run echo "blah\"blah\"blah" 06:29:48 blah"blah"blah 06:29:51 oerjan: I never metawar that didn't. 06:30:03 Eh? 06:30:09 $ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | md5sum 06:30:11 e876a9a90f35c175d397018775def433 - 06:30:12 $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | md5sum 06:30:14 94b963161db7696d693326c0748bd493 - 06:30:20 fixing the backslash problem, looks like AnMaster wins on md5 too 06:30:26 yay 06:30:47 whirdpool? I don't seem to have any tool for calculating that around 06:30:53 whirlpool* 06:31:07 Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing. 06:31:08 $ echo -n 'oh, it'"'"'s worse than the ehird/me hi game' | crc32 /dev/stdin 06:31:09 2fa93fe5 06:31:10 $ echo -n 'ais523, didn'"'"'t you play "who can say hi first" with ehird about a year ago or so?' | crc32 /dev/stdin 06:31:12 39b3660a 06:31:14 hah, take that 06:31:20 fizzie, XD 06:31:30 ais523, crc32c? 06:31:35 or what crc32 06:31:40 that's the Perl version 06:31:50 which comes with Archive::Zip 06:31:53 ais523 ... 06:31:58 I asked about the algorithm 06:32:02 not where it came from 06:32:03 duh 06:32:13 AnMaster: Now you have sufficient information to find out, duh. 06:32:25 fizzie, too much work duh? 06:32:26 presumably, whatever algorithm zipfiles use 06:32:33 AnMaster: You're the one who cares, duh? 06:32:35 given the source 06:32:43 fizzie, duh duh! 06:32:49 Nuh-uh! 06:33:20 ais523, still, I think sha1sum is the one that should count 06:33:40 Quick, whip up a script that uses wordnet synonyms, punctuation randomization and some arbitrary whitespace manipulation to calculate a "hash-optimized" way of saying any given thing. <-- done it yet? 06:33:46 AnMaster: I think timestamp is what should count 06:34:12 ais523, yes and the local one when one hit enter. Do you use ntp? 06:34:16 yes, I do 06:34:21 A weighted sum of all SHA-3 second round competitors, weights from the number of published cryptanalysis papers about them. 06:34:23 * AnMaster is looking for how to enable subsecond timestamps 06:34:34 fizzie, XD 06:35:02 AnMaster: it's nontrivial for me to enable sub/minute/ timestamps 06:35:02 Having the "competitors" themselves provide the timestamps introduces an obvious trust problem. 06:35:14 ais523, oh? 06:35:26 ais523, sounds like a shitty irc client 06:35:40 no, just one optimised for different things than you want 06:35:44 ais523, yes 06:35:46 err 06:35:47 The only solution I can think of is to have a trusted third party (me) install surveillance devices to both of your apartments. Stop wriggling, this is for your own good. 06:35:48 fizzie, yes 06:35:49 I meant 06:35:59 ais523, irssi? 06:36:01 Good, you agree. 06:36:15 AnMaster: Konversation 06:36:16 fizzie, I agreed to the former statement 06:36:19 not the second 06:36:22 ais523, well *shrug* 06:36:33 fizzie: I disagree, on the basis that I'm not currently /in/ my apartment 06:36:37 so it wouldn't have the desired effect 06:36:48 I'm not at home either 06:36:51 ais523: Don't worry, I'll just have someone follow you around. 06:37:08 Maybe that's a bit too expensive for this purpose, though. 06:37:15 fizzie: as long as they're good at esoprogramming and fun to talk to, I don't mind 06:37:18 it'd be useful 06:37:24 fizzie, also I'm not in an apartement 06:37:27 even when at home 06:37:30 free standing house 06:37:54 (again, same here, but I wasn't sure about definitions...) 06:38:14 ^style 06:38:15 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa* speeches ss wp youtube 06:38:17 bbiab 06:38:22 fungot: give me some garbage 06:38:23 ais523: you could, but it is very weird. why didn't they just call it ten? that chick? dude. i mean, honestly. what's the hole card. that means you like shit!!! 06:38:28 ^style europarl 06:38:29 Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006) 06:38:34 fungot, hi there 06:38:35 AnMaster: mr president, if we continue to permit land to lie fallow or be set aside for them. 06:38:46 fungot: heh, I like that style 06:38:47 fungot, really? 06:38:49 ais523: mr president, i would like to suggest that people can bring progress in the budgetary policy. it is disgraceful to change things, quite the reverse, it is not that but rather to the practice of executions in the usa because we have lost our bearings? this is a thinly veiled means of interfering in this process? the third point. the tragedy involving semira has shaken our society and, indeed, from country to country. whi 06:38:49 AnMaster: despite the massive investment of the european parliament is well aware of the need to safeguard economies most dependent on coastal fishing, which contribute not only to goods and services. 06:38:51 "A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works. 06:38:57 wait 06:39:06 oh fizzie not fungot for the last line 06:39:07 AnMaster: mr president, madam president-in-office of the council, which has done most to expose real and fundamental problems of work and to consider that although the reduction in actual transportation costs. at the same time the european parliament has not taken the crisis in kosovo to an end. 06:39:19 you seem confused about my kender 06:39:21 gender* 06:39:25 fizzie: what's the chance that that style will start "mr president,"? 06:39:44 "A single room of a house; the original sense being expressed by the plur. apartments." As long as you're not in multiple rooms simultaneously, that works. <-- as a matter of fact I do 06:40:16 fizzie, separate bedroom (small) and office (also small) 06:40:18 ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable. 06:40:31 again bbiab really now 06:40:50 fungot: again? 06:40:53 ais523: mr president, on the basis of the charging system and also on how they should progress in future. the european refugee fund under category 3. in recent weeks and months to come. 06:40:53 ais523: I can do an empirical sampling of a thousand sentences or so if you like. 06:41:01 meh, no need 06:41:07 I'm just wondering what causes it to do that 06:41:17 does it take a random sentence and start with its first two words, for instance? 06:42:15 ais523: "Very likely", but I don't have a tool for reverse-converting the language models to anything human-readable. <-- fungot not producing human readable output? XD 06:42:19 AnMaster: mr president, after a lively debate in stockholm, a special fund and that is the position in crafts and small and medium-sized cotton farms in greece, compared with fnord in it and that will not happen automatically, they are often housed in disgraceful conditions. this surely will be: ' very well, we need a uniform statute for asylum seekers and immigrants. the third aspect of this process, the middle east peace proc 06:42:38 ais523: It's just that every sentence in the corpus has had the special token START added in the beginning, and then those are modeled by the n-grams just like any other token; and the text generation starts with an (invisible) context "START". 06:42:51 fizzie: please make a graph about precidency. 06:43:14 oklopol, I think the correct reply may be "augh" 06:43:30 unless I saw a pun that wasn't there 06:43:34 bbiab again 06:43:55 you did, actually 06:44:05 "no pun intended" 06:44:34 It takes about a second or two of the Perl script to generate a sentence, so this sampling will take a moment. 06:44:35 that reminds me of a really awful pun I heard a while back 06:44:52 basically, the idea is that there was a pun competition 06:45:07 and ten finalists submitted puns that they thought were really bad, and would beat the current record pun 06:45:10 but no pun in ten did 06:45:49 Nng. 06:46:06 told you it was bad 06:47:04 Very intermediate results: http://pastebin.com/m39b468be 06:47:10 xkcd was funny imo 06:47:18 well hovertext 06:47:53 Notably, the Perl script might not perfectly correspond to what the bot itself does. (Especially if the bot has gone self-aware.) 06:48:02 hehe, i started reading those as a list of things you can address someone ass 06:48:04 *as 06:48:07 ... 06:48:21 oklopol: they mostly are, if you think about it 06:48:34 mr president and madam president work 06:48:36 "ladies and", for instance 06:48:40 then "many major" 06:48:42 told you it was bad 06:48:48 ais523, I'm unable to spot it 06:48:50 is "ladies and gentlemen" almost certainly 06:48:51 what is the pun 06:49:12 AnMaster: somehow, you being unable to spot the pun is funnier than the actual pun 06:49:21 ais523, .... 06:49:30 ais523, can you please point it out 06:49:37 no pun in those then did 06:49:56 ais523: That one instance actually goes: "ladies and gentlemen, mrs neyts-uyttebroeck, ladies and gentlemen, poverty in the european convention." 06:49:56 *ten 06:50:09 what 06:50:12 oklopol, yes? 06:50:17 fizzie: that's fungot output? or the original? 06:50:21 ais523: mr president, i have always welcomed his proposals in this house we would disagree, but on the form such compromises could take. i ask for your support and i thank the rapporteur mrs giannakou-koutsikou, but also the new media will completely replace the old regulation just in time, would be very similar. this will always be positive and i speak to you not as a member of the same group, included the republic of lithuani 06:50:30 ais523: Fungot output, sorry. 06:50:46 AnMaster: point is the last sentence doesn't really work except as a pun 06:51:00 oklopol, well yes the grammar is wrong 06:51:03 oklopol: I think AnMaster hasn't seen the pun at all yet 06:51:08 ais523, correct 06:51:11 the grammar isn't quite wrong, but it is rather tortured 06:51:16 I know what line it should be in 06:51:16 which is a clue that it's a punchline 06:51:17 i'm just telling him where it is. 06:51:27 but I'm unable to spot it. I even read it aloud 06:51:42 and indeed the grammar isn't really wrong, it's just a really weird way to reference the puns 06:51:46 oh wait 06:51:50 I think I see it 06:51:53 THAT bad? 06:51:53 First 103 samples: http://pastebin.com/m34f18f81 06:51:58 AUGH 06:52:03 intended right 06:52:21 yes 06:52:24 addressing someone as "the problem" might not be very polite 06:52:31 well, "no pun intended" is a standard phrase 06:52:39 fizzie, why is the perl script so slow? 06:52:46 fizzie, even fungot seems faster 06:52:49 AnMaster: mr president, we must emphasise civilian missions, in which respect for the state to protect citizens against serious crimes, including terrorism, if those conditions are met, production methods could be used to raise funds. i am opposed to short-term growth and in favour of the well-prepared report by my friend and fellow member, mr berenguer fuster is: should mobile telephone suppliers not be treated less favourably 06:52:59 AnMaster: Yes, well, everyone who's serious about performance uses Funge-98 nowadays. 06:53:16 fizzie, XD 06:53:58 fungot, timing please? 06:54:00 AnMaster: mr president, our rapporteurs have centred their considerations both on the part of my portfolio but more particularly because an accurate analysis of the many obstacles we have experienced many times in this house, not to be the only indicator used. we need to adopt them, because those of us who live in europe, despite the pledges of financial support for their survival. 06:54:01 meh 06:54:07 fungot, you are usually faster IME 06:54:08 AnMaster: we are unfortunately witnessing the phenomenon of the new powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction of coins and notes. it seems that it is only transitional, and this change has taken and which has undergone one civil war and human rights. 06:54:18 wait, 0.4 lag here 06:54:19 The Perl script is more clever when it comes to punctuation (maintains a stack of things that need be closed), but I doubt that's a major contribution. 06:54:21 hm 06:55:26 1 the amsterdam 06:55:27 heh 06:55:43 -!- Fuco has joined. 06:55:58 fizzie, " 1 commission. (de)"? 06:56:12 Probably a preprocessing problem somewhere. 06:56:15 fungot, so how do you feel? 06:56:17 AnMaster: mr president, that the way forward in this matter is still being discussed. i doubt whether anyone here would support it. finally on foreign policy and in the green paper expressly states and that the establishment of a european tourist agency necessary from every point of view, i am extremely disappointed to see that there is no monitoring, or at first reading between what is state aid which is not fully functioning, 06:57:01 ^style 06:57:02 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl* ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 06:57:04 ^style ct 06:57:04 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 06:57:14 The sword alone can't stop! 06:57:23 fizzie, I was waiting for that comment 06:57:36 fizzie, however you need to highlight it 06:57:38 too many for m 06:57:39 me* 06:57:59 fungot: Can the sword alone stop? 06:57:59 fizzie: you are strong of will...! that's the pendant the gurus and miss you. you may use that " rainbow shell? can eat much! 06:58:10 fungot, really? 06:58:11 AnMaster: we are looking to achieve a shorter life span... lavos will rule the world in a mere door that keeps us bound, hand, foot...and tongue kid? ...oh, it's you, isn't this morbid? the great adventurer toma levine rests in a grave to the north. it's a great place for a picnic! heard that magus's place... 06:58:25 shorter life span? 06:58:26 that's the second time fungot's done "we are looking to achieve a shorter life span" 06:58:27 ais523: the masamune! 06:58:28 that's unusual 06:58:41 AnMaster: That's what Gaspar says if you try to use the bucket in End of Time. 06:58:45 we flagged it as unusual the first time and discussed it for a while 06:58:50 ^style youtube 06:58:51 Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments) 06:58:52 ais523, ah 06:59:01 fungot: see if you can make the comments more intelligible than they were before, it shouldn't be hard 06:59:02 ais523: then he said it looks absolutely nothing like this. jealousy? ( i can't wait for this plane 3 of the airfield, such as ' the tv is talking about. 06:59:08 AnMaster: "Only go there if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you to leave this mortal coil." Or something like that, I don't have the text here. 06:59:23 ah 06:59:50 fungot: again again! again again! 06:59:50 ais523: since 1988, air france 296 07:00:27 OLD MAN: That Gate leads to 1999 A.D... It leads to the "Day of Lavos"... Go there only if you're looking to achieve a shorter life span... Lavos will help you leave this mortal coil. 07:00:55 That wasn't so far off. 07:03:07 fungot's so fun to talk to 07:03:08 ais523: please check your facts before spouting off their mouths. air france entry on wikipedia for all! 07:03:13 oh, apparently not 07:03:14 Well, out of a sample of N=239, 64.0 % start with "mr president,", 12.1 % with "madam president," and the highest single other possibilities are around 1.3 %. 07:05:13 fungot: calm down! 07:05:14 oerjan: when they threw the guy who wrote the game, but it was 07:05:34 ^style discworld 07:05:34 Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) 07:05:37 This style seems prone of stopping in the middle of something. 07:05:38 fungot, ? 07:05:40 AnMaster: lord mcsweeney nodded. ' take it, please.' 07:05:42 s/This/That/ 07:05:55 fizzie, that being discworld? 07:06:03 fungot, take what? 07:06:04 AnMaster: the sky was full of little fnord, forested country of lancre. 07:06:04 That being Youtube. 07:06:15 sky full of lancre 07:06:19 how fun 07:06:31 fungot, I thought lancre was mainly mountainous? 07:06:32 AnMaster: a wave submerged brutha. for a while. the audience watched in fascinated silence. quarney nodded mutely. 07:06:42 heh 07:06:51 AnMaster: it has lots of forests too, presumably they're on the mountains 07:07:06 ais523, well yes 07:07:24 And lots of little fnords. 07:07:27 * AnMaster digs out that lancre map 07:07:52 mountains, sky, close enough 07:08:50 fnord 07:09:54 Ooh, "mr president-in-office" is also one way to start. 07:10:41 fizzie, you should add hitchhikers guide to the galaxy in there 07:11:00 Didn't I try? I thought I tried. Maybe I didn't. 07:11:07 fizzie, rare? 07:11:42 I think I was a bit bored of books at that point. They all sound more or less the same, except of course not at all. 07:11:52 * AnMaster notes it is rather unusual to hold two concurrent conversations with one person in real life. Yet it happens all the time on irc 07:12:09 4 instances in ~300 or so. 07:12:11 well not all the time 07:12:22 AnMaster: no, but often enough that I notice 07:12:51 ais523, what is often enough? 07:13:01 not sure, really 07:13:06 mostly I do it with ehird, or did 07:13:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 07:13:18 well okay 07:13:36 ais523, I wonder when he will tell what the issue is 07:13:37 "unfortunately, this decision has to be developed without at the same time, so it will be hard to be sure of that, it will be difficult." The form of politics-speak, the bot does grok it. 07:14:09 fizzie, from europarl? 07:14:15 Yes. 07:14:31 fizzie, it sounds incoherent certainly 07:15:02 "there is no shortage of those in many member states of the union to have a greater proportion of elderly people who are treated with suspicion. this must not be the reasons that i have worked a lot with this." 07:15:15 Well, it's good that we're not short of elderly people to treat with suspicion. 07:15:51 fizzie, especially since it results in lots of work for politicians it seems 07:17:11 Haha. "i support a strong political message to european citizens, who are often harmed by them."' 07:17:28 An honest politician, how refreshing. 07:17:45 hehe 07:26:22 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 07:32:02 -!- quantumEd has joined. 07:38:26 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 07:43:29 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:43:49 -!- puzzlet has joined. 07:57:35 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:34:54 http://pastebin.com/m6f85b8d for the whole set of 1000. So around 60.7 % chance, according to this particular test. 08:53:45 -!- quantumEd has quit ("* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"). 08:59:40 fizzie, what percentage of the source data sentences start with "mr president"? 09:02:05 Left work already, in a bus now. 09:02:30 It *should* be a very similar percentage. 09:04:38 fizzie, well yes 09:04:52 I may not have used the full europarl corpus for the training, though. 09:05:09 * Ping reply from fizzie: 2.22 second(s) 09:05:11 nice lag 09:05:26 you are aware of that you are marked away? 09:07:05 well I guess he went away 09:07:11 -!- quantumEd has joined. 09:07:11 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:09:46 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:10:35 hi AirCastle 09:13:36 AnMaster: heh, your tab-complete has got screwed up 09:13:46 ais523, yes indeed 09:13:48 mistab 09:13:49 luckily that's unlikely to hurt me, as I rarely need to tab-complete my /own/ name... 09:14:01 although, it's weird to not be first in alphabetical order 09:14:08 ais523, in fact I highlight last spoken 09:14:14 so not an issue once you spoke 09:14:25 assuming this AirCastle doesn't speak after you 09:14:35 -!- ais523 has changed nick to CallForJudgement. 09:14:40 let's simplify it for everyone else 09:14:43 CallForJudgement, har har 09:14:55 why are you laughing? 09:14:55 this /is/ my nick... 09:14:56 CallForJudgement, now my nick column is too wide 09:15:00 this is worse 09:15:04 CallForJudgement, it is? 09:15:08 fits just fine in mine 09:15:11 and yes, ask NickServ 09:15:21 CallForJudgement, seems so completely not you 09:15:23 [17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on callforjudgement (account ais523): 09:15:24 [17:10] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Aug 26 13:16:53 2009 (15 weeks, 2 days, 03:53:37 ago) 09:15:30 it's a nomic term 09:15:33 does it seem more me now? 09:15:39 no 09:16:02 anyway, with this nick I can sit here sorting out arguments via deus ex machina 09:16:04 you are ais[0-9]+[_`]? 09:16:15 I've never suffixed ` to my nick 09:16:21 CallForJudgement, sure? 09:16:25 well okay 09:16:32 I'm usually ais523, ais523_+ when necessary to avoid clashes 09:16:32 ais532 when I typo 09:16:39 and 524 occasionally, for nick puns 09:17:06 CallForJudgement, I think 1064 happened once 09:17:11 after a 534 pun 09:17:16 as in, someone did *= 2 09:17:29 would have been 1046, surely? 09:17:40 err yeah 09:17:46 I typoed when I calculated it 09:17:50 so I entered 532 09:17:53 not 523 09:18:29 CallForJudgement = sqrt(-ais523) 09:18:36 * AnMaster wonders what will happen 09:18:39 nothing 09:18:44 see, that was easy 09:18:46 boring 09:30:47 I almost tab-AirCastled earlier today. 09:35:56 Out of 63045 comments of the Europarl data, 28954 match "grep -i '^mr president'". 09:36:22 That's significantly less than 60 %, but on the other hand I don't really remember at this point what my training set was. 09:42:42 Oh, there's quite a pile of whitespace, too. The bit more robust '^[^a-z]*mr president' is matched by 34372 lines. 09:55:22 -!- quantumEd has quit ("* I'm too lame to read BitchX.doc *"). 10:09:07 yay, on my way to making my IRC bot in an esoteric language! 10:10:47 which? 10:15:31 Zetaplex 10:35:28 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 11:15:32 -!- jpc has joined. 11:19:09 funny opposite of typo: I read "google fu trends" 11:19:15 (instead of flu) 11:38:18 CallForJudgement, nice order url: https://www.bokus.com/cgi-bin/labyrinth.cgi 11:38:29 it's a web shop 11:38:31 (books) 11:39:06 labyrinth.cgi well yeah, their order system is in fact unusually easy to navigate 11:49:38 -!- OxE6 has quit. 11:51:22 -!- |MigoMipo| has joined. 11:51:27 -!- sebbu has joined. 11:52:56 -!- MigoMipo has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:52:56 -!- Fuco has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:52:56 -!- augur has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:52:56 -!- sebbu2 has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:52:56 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:56:52 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:56:52 -!- Fuco has joined. 11:56:52 -!- augur has joined. 11:56:52 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 11:56:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 11:56:57 -!- `Fuco`` has joined. 11:57:50 -!- Deewiant has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:57:51 -!- ineiros has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:57:51 -!- Ilari has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:57:51 -!- MizardX has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 11:59:28 -!- _MigoMipo_ has joined. 12:00:42 -!- MizardX has joined. 12:01:49 -!- |MigoMipo| has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:01:49 -!- jpc has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:01:57 -!- fungot has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:01:57 -!- fizzie has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:08:09 -!- fizzie has joined. 12:08:44 -!- _MigoMipo_ has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"). 12:09:52 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 12:10:41 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Connection timed out). 12:11:07 -!- Fuco has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 12:26:39 The first part of a Haskell expression: ["ais523","ais569","ais661","ais707","ais753","ais799","ais891","ais937","ais983","ais29","ais121","ais167","ais213","ais259","ais351","ais397","ais443","ais489","ais581","ais627","ais673","ais719" 12:26:47 Continue the sequence. 12:27:14 Note that there is indisputably only one way to continue that sequence that makes sense. 12:28:05 No there isn't. 12:28:19 Adding an infinite number of []s to the list also makes sense. 12:28:49 Yes, but it doesn't make nearly as much sense. 12:28:56 -!- Deewiant has joined. 12:28:56 -!- ineiros has joined. 12:28:56 -!- Ilari has joined. 12:32:17 "checking whether to build shared libraries... no\nchecking whether to build shared libraries... yes" 12:32:21 WTF, autoconf? 12:33:58 !swedish test 12:34:06 No more sweedbot? 12:34:10 ^swedish test 12:34:19 You will end up with some sort of schroedi-libs that are and are not built at the same time. 12:35:06 -!- |MigoMipo| has joined. 12:35:41 -!- |MigoMipo| has changed nick to MigoMipo. 12:46:26 -!- jpc has joined. 12:49:07 -!- Wh1teWolf has joined. 12:58:46 -!- fizzie has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:47 -!- olsner has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:47 -!- dbc has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:47 -!- AirCastle has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:47 -!- Cerise has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:47 -!- yiyus has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:49 -!- AnMaster has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:49 -!- MizardX has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:50 -!- oklopol has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:51 -!- HackEgo has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:51 -!- lament has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:51 -!- uorygl has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 12:58:51 -!- Leonidas has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:00:15 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 13:02:39 -!- fizzie has joined. 13:02:39 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:02:39 -!- AirCastle has joined. 13:02:39 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:02:39 -!- Cerise has joined. 13:02:39 -!- olsner has joined. 13:02:39 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:02:39 -!- dbc has joined. 13:02:39 -!- AnMaster has joined. 13:02:39 -!- Leonidas has joined. 13:02:39 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:02:39 -!- lament has joined. 13:02:39 -!- uorygl has joined. 13:22:58 -!- |MigoMipo| has joined. 13:23:34 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 13:23:46 -!- |MigoMipo| has changed nick to MigoMipo. 13:34:09 -!- `Fuco`` has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:34:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:34:09 -!- augur has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:36:43 -!- mu has joined. 13:36:49 -!- mu has changed nick to OxE6. 13:37:17 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 13:37:22 "One thing's for sure: until you have a backup strategy of some kind, you're screwed, you just don't know it yet. If backing up your data sounds like a hassle, that's because it is. Shut up. I know things. You will listen to me. Do it anyway." —Coding Horror 13:37:25 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Client Quit). 13:37:44 wait, did ehird come in here just to give us a Coding Horror quote? 13:37:55 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:37:55 -!- jpc has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:37:55 -!- Ilari has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:37:56 -!- Deewiant has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:37:56 -!- ineiros has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:38:07 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 13:38:09 "Coding Horror experienced 100% data loss at our hosting provider, CrystalTech." 13:38:16 (and I did a complete (full for some things, incremental for others, but complete combined with previous backups) backup yesterday 13:38:22 hi ehirdiphone 13:38:24 and wow 13:38:29 The only "backups"? On the same VPS. 13:38:33 haha 13:38:45 And nothing of value was lost. 13:39:05 I have (very recent) backups on a USB stick, (also very recent) backups on the same drive that they're backing up (insurance against accidental rms) 13:39:10 also, less recent ones on other computers 13:39:15 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:39:32 rms, famous data bandit 13:40:04 -!- `Fuco`` has joined. 13:40:04 -!- augur has joined. 13:40:04 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:40:07 I don't backup at all. 13:40:11 -!- Fuco has joined. 13:40:21 ehirdiphone: ugh, not even incidentally? 13:40:34 e.g. when you copy data from one computer to another, do you always delete the original? 13:40:56 Never lost anything apart from some ripped music. Easy to rip again. 13:41:03 CallForJudgement: lol 13:41:40 CallForJudgement: Eso os idea; that 13:41:55 I wonder what computational class brainfuck with only >, but with bounded memory and an extra instruction to add one memory slot to the memory would have 13:41:56 even better if you can make it perfectly atomic 13:42:01 Its replaced by a symlink to the location 13:42:02 -!- Ilari has joined. 13:42:07 as in, a power cut will cause the entire file to always be on either one computer, or the other 13:42:08 Where the memory would wrap when it reaches the end 13:42:11 when copying over a network 13:42:25 there's probably /some/ way to do that, although I'm not sure 13:42:34 FireFly: Minimax did that iirc ask CallForJudgement 13:42:47 -!- Deewiant has joined. 13:42:49 -!- ineiros has joined. 13:42:49 MiniMAX isn't quite the same 13:42:57 The bf thing 13:42:57 because it supports arbitrary-sized > and < 13:42:57 Hm 13:43:05 the BF thing isn't what FireFly describes either 13:43:05 That was translated into it 13:43:14 Well, it's still interesting 13:43:21 -!- Fuco has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:43:21 -!- `Fuco`` has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:43:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:43:21 -!- augur has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:43:30 although, clearly what FireFly says is TC, because you can compile arbitrary coprime DownRight programs into it 13:43:44 also, DownRight is an esolang that is not vaporware, just I haven't put it on the wiki yet 13:44:10 -!- Fuco has joined. 13:44:10 -!- `Fuco`` has joined. 13:44:10 -!- augur has joined. 13:44:10 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 13:44:12 nor told anyone 13:44:30 and the name was obsolete really quickly because it really doesn't matter if you can move up and left too 13:44:35 But you plan writing something on the wiki about it? 13:44:48 at some point 13:44:50 bye for now 13:44:53 -!- ehirdiphone has quit ("Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info"). 13:44:53 bye 13:45:05 Sounds similar to what I described, but 2D-ish 13:45:07 part of the issue is that it's rather close to Bitwise Cyclic Tag, in that it trivially round-trips 13:47:24 there are a couple of hypotheses I have to do with it, though 13:47:49 you can come up with a few variants of it, one of which I think but don't know is sub-TC 13:47:53 then one is clearly TC 13:48:24 "sub-TC"? 13:48:27 and another one is clearly also TC, but feels sort-of super-TC in that I can't figure out any way to compile existing programs into it while using all the features 13:48:34 As in, except by arbitrarily throwing in uses to them 13:48:41 sub-TC means as in, you can't compile BF to it 13:48:51 Yeah 13:49:20 First I thought you referred to a certain computational class 13:52:29 -!- Wh1teWolf has left (?). 13:52:33 -!- `Fuco`` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:55:02 -!- CallForJudgement has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:55:47 -!- fizzie has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:47 -!- dbc has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:47 -!- olsner has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:47 -!- AirCastle has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:47 -!- Cerise has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:48 -!- yiyus has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:49 -!- AnMaster has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:50 -!- Ilari has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:50 -!- HackEgo has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:50 -!- uorygl has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:51 -!- Leonidas has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:52 -!- oklopol has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:52 -!- lament has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:55:52 -!- MizardX has quit (farmer.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 13:56:43 -!- CallForJudgement has joined. 13:56:43 -!- Ilari has joined. 13:56:43 -!- fizzie has joined. 13:56:43 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:56:43 -!- AirCastle has joined. 13:56:43 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:56:43 -!- uorygl has joined. 13:56:43 -!- lament has joined. 13:56:43 -!- HackEgo has joined. 13:56:43 -!- Leonidas has joined. 13:56:43 -!- AnMaster has joined. 13:56:43 -!- dbc has joined. 13:56:43 -!- yiyus has joined. 13:56:43 -!- olsner has joined. 13:56:43 -!- Cerise has joined. 13:58:00 -!- jpc has joined. 13:59:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:59:19 -!- CallForJudgement has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:14:41 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:42:30 -!- jpc has quit ("Leaving."). 14:46:24 -!- Fuco has changed nick to `Fuco`. 14:46:33 -!- `Fuco` has changed nick to Fuco. 14:50:47 -!- ehirdiphone has joined. 14:50:59 Entertain me! 14:51:56 well, I've been working entirely mentally on a new esolang 14:51:59 its name is DownRight 14:52:08 You've said. 14:52:23 ah, I didn't realise you were here for that 14:52:34 basically, its source is a 2d matrix of string fragments 14:52:45 each of which is a possibly empty list made out of "down" and "right" 14:53:03 the matrix is effectively toroidal (bottom goes to top, right, goes to left) 14:53:11 Oh, and to answer a question penned by AnMaster yesterday: Yudkowsky is one of the forefront singularitarians and rationalists. 14:53:20 basically, there's a queue, and the contents of the current square get added to the end of the queue 14:53:23 and that's it 14:53:43 you can add I/O in a pretty simple way, but it's nice and pure without it 14:54:08 I've already mentally proved it TC, in three different ways 14:54:16 (simulating tag, simulating cyclic tag, simulating a Minsky machine) 14:55:14 No loops? 14:55:15 Cool. 14:55:18 MizardX: no need 14:55:34 the matrix itself loops round from bottom to top, and from right to left 14:55:42 ah, right 14:55:49 now, what interests me is that all the ways I can thing of to program in involve using one dimension as data, and another as code 14:56:03 they don't have to be top-to-bottom and left-to-right, you could use, say, diagonals 14:56:31 but the basic distinguishing feature is, that if you allowed up and left movement too 14:56:35 -!- coppro has joined. 14:56:44 you could design it so that the code never needed to wrap 14:56:47 but the data would still need to wrap 14:57:07 (I haven't managed to prove, but strongly suspect, that non-wrapping UpLeftDownRight is sub-TC) 14:58:06 anyway, take that Qdecl 14:58:31 -!- fizzien900 has joined. 14:58:44 um, Qdeql 14:59:02 (Sorry, just had to because of the ehirdiphone name.) 14:59:38 hmm, I wonder if Qdeql is in fact TC despite the non-TCness argument on the wiki? 15:00:11 arguably, the same argument proves DownRight sub-TC, except I know it's TC 15:00:24 -!- ehirdiphone_ has joined. 15:01:15 I'd argue, except you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable people on this planet when it comes to TCness 15:01:25 gah, I have to try to compile coprime DownRight into Qdeql here and see where it stops 15:01:36 coppro: I'm not sure if the argument there's right or not 15:01:44 it isn't obviously wrong, but it isn't obviously right either 15:02:18 ehirdiphone_: Look, I have a phone-designator too. 15:04:25 issue, mostly, is that Qdeql's flow control is really really nasty 15:05:57 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net"). 15:06:16 oh, also that there's no way to delete anything from the queue 15:06:29 except writing it to stdout 15:06:43 hmm... assuming that we can get rid of useless data by throwing it to stdout, what happens? 15:07:40 -!- fungot has joined. 15:08:56 ok, next issue is getting the data we need /in/ from stdin... 15:09:06 well, not necessarily stdin 15:09:13 -!- ehirdiphone_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:09:49 just write data to stdin 15:10:32 I mean, even if we had a definite 10101010101010101010 in stdin, it would be hard to determine which to put there, as you can't skip stdin elements 15:10:36 they all have to be enqueued somewhere 15:10:41 and you can't dequeue them immediately 15:10:56 -!- immibis has joined. 15:14:57 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 15:17:25 -!- ehirdiphone has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 15:19:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:25:46 A conversation: http://pastebin.com/m1c481645 15:34:38 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:36:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 15:48:42 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 15:56:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:00:41 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:10:44 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 16:41:21 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:45:46 -!- Azstal has joined. 16:48:07 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit ("Leaving"). 16:53:08 -!- Asztal has quit (Success). 17:00:55 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:01:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:34:45 -!- augur has joined. 17:43:35 -!- OxE6 has quit. 17:43:55 -!- mu has joined. 17:44:01 -!- mu has changed nick to OxE6. 18:20:41 -!- OxE6 has quit (Nick collision from services.). 18:20:42 -!- mu has joined. 18:20:48 -!- mu has changed nick to OxE6. 18:32:13 -!- jpc has joined. 18:53:09 -!- jpc has quit ("Leaving."). 18:55:19 -!- jpc has joined. 18:55:23 -!- jpc has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:59:19 -!- jpc has joined. 19:00:37 -!- jpc has quit (Client Quit). 19:01:01 -!- jpc has joined. 19:19:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 19:22:36 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:01:59 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:02:08 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:30:53 -!- Fuco has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 21:11:29 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 22:15:42 Oh, and to answer a question penned by AnMaster yesterday: Yudkowsky is one of the forefront singularitarians and rationalists. <-- well yes I know. Still doesn't explain why he has been mentioned a lot recently. For example: Why then has not Knuth been mentioned as much? 22:16:50 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:18:05 fizzien900 <-- I read that as fizzien 900 rather than fizzie n900 first. I quite like the sound of "fizzien" 22:24:43 -!- immibis has joined. 23:16:17 -!- immibis has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:30:09 -!- immibis has joined. 23:37:07 -!- AirCastle has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:43:23 -!- Azstal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:49:24 AnMaster: I think I mentioned his name because I vaguely remembered ehird saying something offensive about him.