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00:08:21 <ehird> Pants, Orifice, Ogle, Petunias
00:08:40 <ehird> Path Only Ousted Pathetically
00:09:06 <ehird> Parenthically, Oxygen-Oxen Pack
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11:43:12 <fizziexn900> It looks as if they haven't really bothered much with the ports; seems to be pretty close to the usual X-Chat ui.
11:44:23 <ais523> does that work well on a Maemo?
11:45:19 <fizziexn900> Not very. Of course it's a bit maemoized by the system itself.
11:46:49 <fizziexn900> It's rather stylus-only like this, though. All scrolling is with tiny scrollbars that are not finger-friendly at all.
11:48:04 <fizziexn900> It really should have the kinetic scrolling used in everywhere else. (Except all the other places where it's missing.)
11:50:46 <fizzie> I'm not so sure about those default colors either: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/maemo-xchat.png
11:51:20 <fizzie> Maybe I'll stick with xterm and SSH.
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11:53:44 * ais523 wonders why the easter egg found in Chrome is so nonsensical
12:22:47 <fizzie> Is it that "goats teleported" thing? That seems to be the new thing.
12:25:18 <ais523> I mean, why are goat teleportation stats meant to be funny? surely they could have thought up a better one than that...
12:30:17 <fizzie> What, and it's just a randomly incrementing number?
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12:39:25 <AnMaster> ais523, isn't it memory stat or such?
12:39:31 <AnMaster> hidden under a nonsensical name
12:39:51 <AnMaster> the bug report is pretty funny though
12:42:05 <Deewiant> No, they just add rand()%4096 IIRC
12:42:13 <Deewiant> (Don't know when or how often)
12:43:21 <ais523> ugh, the should be taking the /high/ bits of rand
12:46:09 <Deewiant> http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/browser/task_manager.cc grep ceGoats
12:50:50 <fizzie> That has apparently changed, since http://www.sorcerers-isle.net/article/goats_teleported.html lacks the &4095.
12:51:45 <fizzie> (And is a bit different in other respects too.)
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13:14:10 <AnMaster> ais523, if rand isn't random enough in the low bits, it is a broken implementation
13:14:46 <AnMaster> ais523, also I heard suggestions that the mid-bits were even better
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13:25:54 <Deewiant> http://www.dina.kvl.dk/~abraham/religion/one-true-editor.html
13:26:43 <ais523> I don't think people normally get into holy wars about individual versions of Emacs...
13:26:46 <ais523> (also, seen it before)
13:33:41 <Deewiant> I was wondering if there was any precedent for that
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17:44:26 <fizzie> Heh, that compose + < + 3 → ♥ thing made me go look at that default Compose file; the one immediately above that rule is equally frivolous: <Multi_key> <C> <C> <C> <P> : "☭" U262D # HAMMER AND SICKLE
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19:42:28 <soupdragon> I'm trying to find a word for something..
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22:01:33 <madbr> http://pastebin.com/f50b6b4b0 <- anouncing Ainor computer/console design compo
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22:10:34 <ehird> 03:50:46 <fizzie> I'm not so sure about those default colors either: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/maemo-xchat.png
22:10:37 <ehird> Wow; how high DPI is that thing?
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22:14:11 <pikhq> map_(gen_list(0, num), do_print);
22:14:21 <pikhq> I DISBELIEVE IN C FOR LOOPS!
22:14:55 <ehird> soupdragon: or spelling.
22:18:56 <ehird> pikhq: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/base-unicode-symbols
22:18:59 <ehird> Awesome, or awesome?
22:21:23 <pikhq> ehird: I'm going with "awesome".
22:21:54 <ehird> Note how that :: is the relevant Unicode symbol, and that alpha really is an alpha.
22:22:16 <soupdragon> sucks to have to write (⊥) rather than ⊥
22:22:30 <ehird> Well, the operators are rather more practical.
22:22:32 <ehird> But it's still awesome.
22:22:48 <ehird> Also, do you have to do that if you just do "foo = ⊥"? I guess so.
22:25:13 <fizzie> ehird: 266 DPI; 800x480 in 3.5 inches diagonal.
22:25:16 <ehird> The only issue is adding all these wonderful symbols to compose. :-)
22:25:23 <ehird> fizzie: Okay, I want to buy an N900 now.
22:25:34 <ehird> fizzie: And it can just run any old GTK app and it transmogrifies to be sort-of-phone-usable?
22:26:02 <fizzie> Well, you probably have to do *some* hacking while compiling, but pretty much so.
22:26:29 <ehird> Is the phone fast?
22:26:38 <ehird> 600 MHz ARM is good, but any crappy lag or whatever?
22:26:54 <ehird> "Input Resistive touchscreen"
22:26:57 <ehird> Never mind; I don't want it.
22:27:13 <fizzie> I think we talked about the resistiveness at some point.
22:27:32 <fizzie> The screen itself is not unique in "high-end" phones; the Motorola Droid has a 3.7" 854x480 (that's ~16:9 aspect ratio) which ends up being about the same thing; it's probably capacitive too. Of course that's Android.
22:27:41 <ehird> But Android is shit.
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22:28:16 <ehird> How's the keyboard?
22:29:11 <fizzie> Well, I like it, but it's obviously a bit cramped. The only-three-rows design also means there's not so many keys; numbers and letters overlap. (Of course you can lock the "fn" key that produces numbers by double-pressing it.)
22:29:38 <ehird> Any oleophobic magic to remove smudges?
22:30:15 <fizzie> No. But I hear they released fingerprint-hating stick-on plastic covers with NANOTECH few days ago.
22:30:28 <fizzie> Maybe not "released" but at least said they were going to.
22:30:39 <fizzie> "They" in this case is some company whose name I've forgotten.
22:31:20 <ehird> I guess you mostly use the stylus.
22:31:25 <fizzie> An unmodified GTK app ends up with tiny menus -- about the same size as the scrollbars there -- that are only usable with the stylus (or a long fingernail, I guess); so it doesn't really automagically convert GTK apps to use the thumb-friendly "Hildon" UI.
22:32:02 <fizzie> Well, I'm a filthy stylus lover. In general it's a lot more finger-friendly than the previous tablets, though.
22:32:02 <ehird> There's a Unicode character for >>=, right?
22:32:09 <ehird> TeX has something for it.
22:32:14 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/3/7/e/37ec8941ea59dc16a9cfdb172cea75e3.png
22:32:27 <fizzie> Maemo 6 devices will do capacitive multitouch, or that's the rumour anyway.
22:33:31 <fizzie> That doesn't look very pretty; the ≫ and = parts seem to overlap a bit uglily.
22:34:06 <madbr> http://pastebin.com/f6530df28 <- ainor contest (now with NTSC and VGA timing suggestions)
22:34:27 <ehird> fizzie: Oh, maybe it's just italic (≫=).
22:34:34 <ehird> Which is perfectly doifiable in HASKELL THE ULTIMATE
22:35:06 <ehird> The Haskell the Ultimate papers: Haskell the Ultimate Functional Language, Haskell the Ultimate Imperative Language, Haskell the Ultimate Logical Language, Haskell the Ultimate Toaster
22:36:08 <fizzie> My font is lacking most of the "supplemental mathematical operators" block; there could be that sign there.
22:36:36 <fizzie> Can't seem to notice it in http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U2A00.pdf though; but there's a whole pile of otherwise silly ones.
22:36:45 <fizzie> There's that "::=" single-character thing.
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22:37:25 <fizzie> And a three-line variant of #, and some sort of '<<<<' except all the angles are inside, and one with four integral signs put together.
22:38:12 <fizzie> 2A97 "slanted equal to or less-than with dot inside".
22:39:26 <fizzie> One has to wonder what exactly the "less-than above greater-than above double-line equal" sign is used for.
22:39:51 <ehird> What's ++ in Unicode? I know it has a symbol.
22:41:00 <fizzie> Not sure; U+29FA DOUBLE PLUS is in fact a single horizontal line with two vertical strokes: ⧺ (that's even in my font).
22:41:32 <fizzie> ⧺... now I just need "ungood".
22:42:24 <fizzie> Doubleplusungood. Newspeak, you know.
22:43:38 <ehird> Kragen Sitaker has an XCompose repository; wonder if it has goodise.
22:44:31 <fizzie> I wonder why the :) and :( compositions don't work; that /usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose file I think it's using by default does have <Multi_key> <colon> <parenright> : "☺" U263A.
22:44:46 * pikhq should try and make a fixed-point combinator for C.
22:46:40 <ehird> Why oh why would you espy Y?
22:47:23 <pikhq> Makes recursing lambdas cleaner.
22:49:27 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/DUSj
22:50:08 <ehird> http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle
22:50:12 <ehird> Read until understanded.
22:50:33 <ehird> soupdragon: I don't see why
22:51:06 <ehird> (pikhq: Specifically, read the last section.)
22:52:26 <pikhq> ehird: "ROB PIKE SAYS INCLUDE GUARDS ARE BAD THEREFORE YOU SHOULD STOP FOLLOWING A C CONVENTION. ALSO IMMA KICK YOU."
22:53:05 <ehird> You will note that linking to a page with justification is not argument by authority.
22:53:31 <ehird> Include guards are an unneccessary hack, and "C convention" is a laughable phrase; very few exist, and some of them are rubbish.
22:53:46 <ehird> Not following this convention makes code more understandable, removes a hack, and speeds up compilation.
22:54:01 <ehird> So I see absolutely no part of the argument that is an appeal to authority.
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22:54:51 <pikhq> And doesn't deal with any of the reasons for the hack.
22:55:16 <ehird> Notable is that Plan 9 follows this anti-convention throughout.
22:55:35 <ehird> It doesn't have any issues at all with includes.
22:57:28 <pikhq> Would you be happier with #pragma once?
22:57:50 <ehird> No; it is unneccessary if you simply follow the rule in Pike's document.
22:58:08 <ehird> And, also, unportable, whereas following The Rule™ works, well, everywhere.
22:58:44 <pikhq> ... I'm relying on undocumented behavior of a GCC extension. I don't think portability is an issue.
22:58:57 <ehird> Yes, but this is a matter of general style.
22:59:11 <ehird> Why would you use an unportable solution in only unportable code when a portable solution works always?
23:01:37 <ehird> http://github.com/leoboiko/pointless-xcompose
23:01:38 <ehird> http://canonical.org/~kragen/setting-up-keyboard.html
23:01:41 <ehird> http://github.com/kragen/xcompose
23:02:20 <ehird> 6. Restart your apps (and perhaps X the first time) — XCompose
23:02:22 <ehird> settings only apply for new windows. I do suspect you need an
23:02:23 <ehird> UTF-8 locale set, though I didn’t test.
23:02:28 <ehird> Ah; that explains it.
23:04:17 <ehird> ⪔ U+2A94 GREATER-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL ABOVE LESS-THAN ABOVE SLANTED EQUAL
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23:09:00 <ehird> After I set this up I will be a unicode monster!
23:09:17 <Gregor> I guess that symbol does mean that they're not incomparable.
23:09:17 <ehird> And be able to write (≫=) ∷ Monad m ⇒ m α → (α → m β) → m β COMPLETELY UNAIDED
23:09:59 <ehird> Compose :: Monad m Compose => m Compose *a Compose -> etc.
23:10:09 <ehird> I should probably swap [] and () while I'm at it.
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23:14:57 <ehird> Good MORNING oerjan
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23:16:28 <oerjan> well, technically, maybe
23:19:16 <oerjan> also, i had the vague impression >>= came from a _single_ math symbol, the kleisli star
23:19:59 <oerjan> although i see the first google hit for kleisli star uses the phrase "its Haskell counterpart »="
23:20:27 <ehird> ≫= is more correct for >>=
23:20:35 <ehird> but if there's a single symbol, sign me up!
23:21:01 <ehird> -- A generalised variant of the Kleisli star (flip bind, or
23:21:11 <ehird> ⋆ is the symbol it uses
23:23:23 <ehird> Unicode has a character called GNABORRETNI, I am so happy
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23:25:19 <ehird> “Why is «“» typed as «<Multi_key> <less> <quotedbl>»? Don’t these X11-tards know ANYTHING? Clearly it should be «<Multi_key> <backtick> <backtick>».” —ehird
23:25:33 <ehird> That took far too long.
23:26:15 <Gregor> Hm, it really ought to be ``...
23:26:52 <ehird> I'm halfway to just ignoring the stock Compose files and writing my own collection of meticulously-crafted entries.
23:26:57 <ehird> They're not very good quality.
23:27:34 <ehird> I wish there was a way to make it break typing flow less, though; for some reason it seems to with me.
23:28:37 <ehird> Things that it is Impossible to Search the Web For, Part n: swap [] and () x11
23:28:44 <ehird> Solution: http://canonical.org/~kragen/setting-up-keyboard.html
23:37:08 <ehird> all malloced pointers are aligned to even addresses
23:37:13 <ehird> but what about calloc and the like?
23:37:56 <ehird> it would be nice if you could align things to odd addresses, instead, so that you can represent small integers as nnn0 and you can use arithmetic operations directly
23:38:10 <ehird> only dividing when outputting etc
23:40:22 <ehird> Gregor: btw in case you don't know (I didn't), posix-manpages-dev lets you do `man foo.h`
23:40:27 <oerjan> isn't even addresses for > 1 byte word lengths required by the underlying efficient machine code instructions? only my vague impression though, not that i actually _know_
23:40:32 <ehird> and it works! (albeit gives POSIX results, not system-specific)
23:40:39 <ehird> oerjan: dunno, perhaps
23:41:22 <ehird> By default, Linux follows an optimistic memory allocation strategy.
23:41:24 <ehird> This means that when malloc() returns non-NULL there is no guarantee
23:41:25 <ehird> that the memory really is available. This is a really bad bug.
23:41:27 <ehird> I thought it was considered a feature.
23:42:11 <oerjan> it's a feature until someone depends on it actually being available
23:48:56 <pikhq> ehird: Is that man page written by a Linux dev, or someone else? ;)
23:49:21 <ehird> The first bug ever to have a configuration setting to turn it off :)
23:49:24 <pikhq> Yeah, that's a Linux man page.
23:58:24 <ehird> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/empty-9
23:58:26 <ehird> Nice version bump there
23:58:32 <ehird> It's even a proper upgrade; it got more empty