00:02:13 pikhq, become a RoboZZle addict like the rest of us! 00:02:17 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 00:02:21 :( 00:03:33 veep veep 00:03:35 -!- cpressey has left (?). 00:04:17 -!- pikhq has joined. 00:05:35 oklopol: Having reached a gross -- in at least two senses -- number of levels, I stop here; feel free to do 145 or whatever to be #1. 00:06:45 What have I done?? 00:07:32 :) 00:10:18 Hey, the game works ~perfectly on the N900 browser. 00:10:22 The JS version, I mean. 00:10:50 There's perhaps a slight lag involved in the code editor part, but actually running a solution seems about as fast as Firefox on the desktop. 00:11:16 That's reasonably nice; I don't think I'll have the motivation to actually spend time with the puzzles much more, but maybe they'd work as a time-waster in a bus or something. 00:11:33 fizzie, write some puzzles! 00:12:41 Was there a Javascript version of the editor? 00:13:49 I don't believe so, no 00:13:51 :( 00:17:14 Aw. How did Deewiant design his level, then? 00:17:27 I rebooted into Windows. 00:22:07 fizzie: if you're really going to sleep, i'll leave it a draw 00:22:45 How considerate! But yes, I am; away right now, in fact. 00:22:56 good, good 00:23:51 i'll probably have to leave my homework for tomorrow, THANKS SGEO FOR RUINING MY SCHEDULE 00:24:07 hmm. okay you'll probably take that seriously, i take it back. 00:24:14 i love the game 00:24:44 oklopol: Tomorrow you'll notice fizzie's score again and leave it for the next day again 00:24:51 :D 00:26:06 nah, i'm fine with fizzie being better than me; he has a master's degree. 00:27:34 oklopol, you really think I take everything seriously? 00:28:16 no. i think you take things personally slightly easier than others. might be wrong (this is not a test!) 00:30:06 * Sgeo has no real way to judge himself as to whether that's the case, and to whether that needs fixing 00:30:39 fizzie is a master of robozzle 00:30:43 do like the rest of us and don't care about anything 00:32:11 MissPiggy: not trying to split the credit or anything (i totally am), i'm pretty sure i've played less than him today 00:32:32 *but 00:32:48 he has the highest degrees of robozzle skill 00:33:04 noooooo :P 00:33:17 maybe, maybe 00:33:32 he *is* incredibly perfect at everything, not arguing that. 00:34:34 if i catch up with him, will you worship me too? 00:35:18 you are at the same place as him 00:35:31 also; I was just trying to make puns about 'masters degree' 00:35:40 yeah 00:35:59 his degree is in flash games 00:36:05 what/? 00:36:06 ??? 00:36:11 yeah 00:36:18 they have that in finland 00:36:21 that's not a real degree 00:36:22 :( 00:36:28 * Sgeo posts a link to Robozzle to reddit 00:36:38 why do you think me, fizzie and Deewiant are so great that robuzzle or whatever it's called 00:36:47 i didn't look at the name yet 00:36:51 okay robozzle 00:37:12 *great at 00:37:21 my sentences are great 00:38:22 http://www.reddit.com/r/WebGames/comments/at2lp/robozzle_a_fun_and_addicting_robot_programming/ 00:39:21 oh dear, did someone just drop me from the list. 00:39:29 what list? 00:39:35 the top-something list 00:39:38 you know reddit. 00:42:47 :( 00:43:49 -!- augur has joined. 00:54:46 -!- jpc has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:01:31 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 01:25:10 -!- adam_d has joined. 01:36:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 01:40:40 -!- MissPiggy has quit. 02:02:28 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 02:07:41 -!- jpc has joined. 02:19:16 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 02:19:21 -!- augur has joined. 02:38:06 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 03:20:28 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:48:50 -!- oerjan has quit ("Later"). 03:53:40 -!- clog has joined. 03:53:40 -!- clog has joined. 05:04:31 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 05:10:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:18:31 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 06:03:49 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:09:48 -!- augur has joined. 06:16:43 -!- Slereah has quit (Client Quit). 06:27:29 -!- augur has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 06:33:07 -!- adam_d_ has joined. 06:36:18 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 06:43:21 -!- adam_d has quit (Nick collision from services.). 06:43:27 -!- adam_d_ has changed nick to adam_d. 06:59:37 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 07:08:41 -!- augur has joined. 07:10:00 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:10:01 Hi 07:10:10 uuurgh, i'm looking for some old recordings on my DVDs 07:34:14 -!- MizardX- has joined. 07:50:36 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:50:39 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 07:56:41 -!- asiek2 has joined. 07:56:42 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:22:38 -!- puzzlet has quit ("leaving"). 08:23:00 -!- puzzlet has joined. 08:33:05 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 08:33:17 -!- MizardX has joined. 08:34:13 -!- puzzlet has quit (Client Quit). 08:39:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:39:35 sgeo it's all your fault for telling everyone about robozzle and now i'm playing it 08:57:18 yes 08:57:20 yes it is, sgeo 08:57:28 but i like you for that 08:57:40 also thanks to you it might appear on the NES soon 08:57:44 YES, the nes does have enough RAM 09:29:30 -!- jpc has quit ("I will do anything (almost) for a new router."). 09:42:40 -!- adam_d has quit ("Leaving"). 09:47:48 i think it might appear on... uhh... pygame? 09:47:52 anyways, gnight 09:47:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it"). 09:58:49 Heh, oklobbol has dropped from 144 to 142 in the last-24-hours list, whereas I haven't yet; I think I started the thing about 21 hours ago. 10:02:26 -!- asiek2 has quit ("Pong timeout: 180 seconds"). 10:21:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:25:36 -!- zeotrope has joined. 10:39:10 -!- tombom has joined. 11:00:42 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:16:21 -!- cal153 has quit. 11:17:49 http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:W/ 11:26:47 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:27:42 argh slow internet.. (I know why, uploading something, but it is still annoying) 11:28:12 Wareya, looks like spam 11:29:12 At least it is text only and not something worse... 12:03:27 -!- noddd has joined. 12:04:04 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 12:04:05 cool, it's the last 24 hours, not just like current 24h period 12:04:13 -!- noddd has changed nick to oklofok. 12:04:38 By installing Brainfuck, you will be able to experience the power of Brainfuck??? 12:04:53 i believe it's true 12:05:12 what that based on 12:05:50 i'm not sure i understand the q 12:08:13 i want to make an esolang based on RoboZZle 12:08:31 basically an application consists of a map, the start coords and the robot command 12:08:33 s 12:08:44 you will be able to set any block on the map to any ASCII char 12:08:46 and output any of them 12:08:49 or take input 12:09:32 remember, if you add commands that modify the map non-locally, i will be very angry 12:09:45 no, you can only modify the spot you're on 12:09:46 hmm 12:09:53 but you have infinite functions 12:09:59 yeah good, was wondering if you were describing that 12:10:01 what do you mean? 12:10:08 infinite length for programs? 12:10:09 as in 12:10:10 both 12:10:12 there's no F1...F5 12:10:17 and there's no max length of 10 per function 12:10:20 right. 12:10:22 there's F1...FF 12:10:27 and the max length is nonexistant 12:10:29 that's fine. 12:10:29 yes, 16 functions 12:12:45 i was thinking of adding local jumps 12:12:46 as in 12:12:56 J-1 would jump 1 command before 12:13:02 J+10 would jump 10 commands after 12:13:13 and F1+10 would jump to the 11th command in function 1 12:13:31 so jumps in functions, not on map? 12:15:42 yes 12:15:45 on the map 12:15:47 you can only go forward 12:15:48 left 12:15:50 or right 12:15:59 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:17:46 -!- Slereah has joined. 12:35:53 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:36:36 I think Reddit might have marked my post as spam 12:37:00 I don't see it when looking at http://www.reddit.com/r/WebGames/new/?sort=new in incognito mode 12:41:09 * Sgeo asks a moderator 12:43:59 actually, i'll make a game based on RoboZZle and other thing 12:44:09 "The Overly Complicated Robotic Programmer" 12:44:21 something like a combination of GolfScript, Befunge, RoboZZle and Brainf**k 12:44:26 and 6502 assembler 12:49:14 the challenge of robozzle is to translate the higher level idea into this terrible low level code? 12:51:41 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 12:52:15 -!- tombom has quit ("Leaving"). 12:52:30 no 12:52:35 it'd be like 12:52:39 not only you have far more space 12:52:48 you also get (as an extra) 7 colors of spaces 12:52:52 actually nah 12:52:55 it'd just be a roboclone 12:53:07 Or i could combine Robozzle with Boulder Dash 12:53:08 Rockfozzle 12:53:12 that would be fun 12:53:32 there'd be colored dirt 12:53:46 when walked through the dirt turns into an empty of that color 12:54:01 it also detects if there's a rock in front of you 12:59:05 basically 12:59:14 there'd be an extra conditional 12:59:22 "ROCK? if yes, jump to function whatthe!@$" 13:03:27 is it a good idea 13:07:26 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:20:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:33:02 -!- Nanakhiel has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:05:54 -!- Pthing has joined. 14:11:00 Hmm... Is there "efficient" way to construct one-to-one mapping between elements of regular language and Z_n or Z? 14:18:06 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:20:46 -!- rodgort has quit (Client Quit). 14:21:27 -!- rodgort has joined. 14:32:06 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 14:35:14 -!- rodgort` has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:35:16 like, a computable function that, given a string, tells its number, and the inverse? 14:40:58 -!- FireFly has quit ("Leaving"). 14:41:22 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:47:21 Yes, and more efficient than just enumerating the strings in order... 14:49:21 oh hm I was thinking about multiplying primes together for that, but going backwards would mean factoring 14:49:48 thing is, you'd know the number factors into high-ish powers of small primes 14:50:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:50:31 For even contex-sensitive language, doing the functions based on pure enumeration in order would be possible, but would have horrid complexity. 14:51:48 yes, exponential obviously, if the language only generates subexponential amounts of strings w.r.t. length 14:52:57 oh actually even more, because it's not enough to enumerate, you need to be able to actually evaluate the functions at some point :) 15:05:34 http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/aibox 15:06:48 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:12:20 Does the following encoding work: Write the regular language as minimum DFA. Assign integers 0, 1, 2, ... for each valid symbol from each state (+ end here if state accepts), so that 0 is always on shortest path to accepting state or end here. Then write number as variable-radix with least-signficant number being for starting state. 15:16:09 -!- Asztal has joined. 15:17:02 Nope, doesn't work. 15:20:33 Consider DFA that accepts even number of characters with alphabet {'A','B'}. The first state is starting, accepting and and has three "exits". The second has two exits. 4 decodes to "AB", but 3 decodes to "" and 0 too decodes to "". So that doesn't work. 15:29:28 What if on decoding, each time accepting vertex is hit with nonzero quotent, the quotent gets decremented by 1 before continuing and only symbols are exits for even accepting states (if its 0, string ends). 15:31:34 quotient = language that gets us to accepting state, right? 15:32:07 yeah okay i'm sure it is 15:32:25 err 15:32:37 well clearly not from what you said 15:32:40 what do you mean? 15:33:53 Quotent gets its name from the fact that it would get divided after each character... 15:34:08 man that Eliezer guy is really scary 15:34:29 he's the kind of guy you feel like he could crush you by just imagining it 15:34:57 hmm, what if we just have a regular language, and we just recursively go through it, every time both branches are infinite, we set "next bit = 1" to one branch, "next bit = 0" to the other, if one is finite, we just give it just enough numbers, and so on 15:35:07 infiniteness can be checked efficiently 15:35:22 err 15:35:38 i really didn't think that through, just a gut-feeling 15:35:45 also 15:35:50 i meant "regular expression" 15:35:51 :) 15:36:11 well 15:36:20 regexps can't exactly be made unambiguous can they? 15:36:30 MissPiggy: which Eleizer? 15:36:44 (a*)* can parse aaaaaaa in gazillion different derivations 15:36:53 SimonRC Yudkowsky 15:36:59 ok 15:37:09 I don't find that 15:37:10 just reading what Sgeo linked about the AI box 15:37:21 there are other Elizers?? 15:37:27 for A + B, you'd check if both are infinite, if so, you give the numbers ...0 to A (bijection by induction), and the numbers ...0 to B, if they are both finite, you just give like |A| numbers to A branch, and you add |A| to whatever B gives you 15:37:33 MissPiggy: well yeah 15:38:15 MissPiggy: yeah but can we make them unambiguous, that was the question 15:38:26 well, for A + B, you can just check the intersection 15:38:32 I think I read denesting the stars in undecidible 15:38:35 for AB, just as easy 15:38:37 yeah 15:38:48 but you can still make it unambiguous somehow? 15:40:16 Of course, one would have to have ordered alphabet to make the encoding uniquely determined. 15:40:30 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:44:10 MissPiggy: no i don't think you can; i don't know if that directly implies you can't, either 15:44:26 he is, after all, named after a prophet 15:45:02 also, you can see that there can't be a *good* reason to let the AI out, or E.Y. would have convinced himself with that argument 15:45:49 * Sgeo_ wishes the experiments weren't secret 15:46:07 * Sgeo_ wants to know how the AI did it 15:46:35 maybe he says, if you let me out I will give you 20 dollars instead of 10 15:46:57 um, see the protocol 15:47:11 (to both of you) 15:48:23 Wishing the protocol didn't say what it said means I need to read the protocol? 15:49:39 ah, ok 15:49:41 oops 15:50:41 um, ww 15:50:49 no, wait, *that* was ww 15:50:51 argh 15:50:52 * SimonRC has breakfast 15:52:26 Consider the language given by 'A{2}|BA*'. Minimal DFA has 4 states. Pick 0 for A and 1 for B for first state. 0 => "AA", 1 => "B", 2 => invalid exit. 3 => "BA". So it doesn't work. 15:58:02 what's ww? 16:03:44 Hmm... Given DFA, number of strings that start in given state is probably computable. If accepting state is unreachable, its 0, if cycle and accepting state is reachable, its infinite, otherwise its finite... 16:04:05 * Sgeo_ is departing Season 7 of SG-1 16:08:14 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 16:08:40 Another decoding algorithm attempt: On each state encountered, check if quotent is less than number of strings starting with symbol that takes to state with finite set of accepted postfixes (+1 for accepting states). If its less, pick that string. If its more, substract the number from quotent and pick exit (dividing quotent by number of exits to states with infinite number of postfixes). 16:10:14 That way: 'A{2}|BA*' would give 0 => AA, 1 => BA, 2 => BAA, 3 => BAAA, ... 16:10:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:12:42 Oops. 1 => B, 2 => BA, 3 => BAA... 16:14:52 The postfix count is efficently computable by first doing topological sort and then using dynamic programming. 16:15:38 "The key idea is that if you can improve intelligence even a little, the process accelerates. It’s a tipping point. Like trying to balance a pen on one end – as soon as it tilts even a little, it quickly falls the rest of the way." 16:15:51 why hasn't it happened already then? 16:16:20 it did, several thousand years ago 16:16:34 okay 16:16:38 written language :) 16:17:03 hmm 16:17:03 not spoken? 16:17:43 well, in terms of the kind of major transformative changes done by civilization, you can argue that larger scale and more persistent information transmission was needed than oral culture allows 16:18:34 im honestly not even vaguely qualified to comment on the topic of how written language influenced the development of civilization, I was just trying to make the claim that everything talked about in the 'singularity' concept actually already happened, more or less 16:19:04 I see 16:19:54 in what I believe to be the canonical contemporary statement, defining the singularity as a point at which future events become unpredictable from past events, so far as I know that condition has *always* applied to historical prognostication 16:21:08 and I dont think anyone really believes the old-old version of singularity theory where the mass-energy manipulation capacity of the species was going to suddenly reach cosmological scale within a very short time 16:22:07 that was the version I was introduced to a long time ago, based on charting energy manipulation of thes species and a huge ramp up starting in the 19th century with another huge leap to atomic weapons, and then extrapolating to galaxy-rebuilding within a few short decades 16:22:50 nowadays I tend to put all this together in my mind under the label "curve-fitting is dangerous and tricky" 16:23:12 Well, I still want to upload my mind to a computer 16:23:46 I think you can, more or less - just create a lot of stuff via the action of your mind and store it on the computer 16:24:12 im a bit of a lunatic, but I happen to think for instance that the souls of artists are basically 'uploaded' in their creative works - when i play a beethoven sonata on the piano, i feel that i directly experience beethoven's literal consciousness 16:24:28 and that his cognitive essence, albeit in a 'frozen' state that cant interact with the external world, still persists 16:25:23 in fact, playing classical music on the piano often makes me feel that my brain has been literally taken over, and my consciousness has been temporarily overwritten by executing the source code of the music 16:25:49 Then there is related concept what I call "technological escalation". Reliance upon technology building upon reliance upon technology. If it continues unchecked long enough, the culture in question will likely rip itself apart. 16:26:07 which brings me to being almost on-topic - has anyone ever written a programming language expressed in musical notation? would be basically trivial 16:26:37 i mean, you could arbitrarily convert brainfuck to musical notation and back with almost no hassle 16:28:09 it would be interesting though to try to do something where the syntactic rules of the language enforced musical harmony 16:28:36 yes 16:28:37 there is 16:28:47 forte 16:29:06 err no not forte 16:29:15 i wonder where i got that idea... ;) 16:29:52 fugue 16:30:17 -!- MizardX has joined. 16:31:14 very cool - although this is a programming language for creating music, it isnt expressed itself within notation, is it? or is the mapping so strict that a fugue program is equivalent to its representation in sheet music? 16:32:16 It shares semantics with its sister language, Prelude, but uses music as source code. 16:32:31 i think the sheet is actually the code 16:33:27 now what if there was a language in which every sheet of music had the semantics of playing the song, wouldn't that be just sweet! 16:39:45 ... I believe that language is called "sheet music" 16:41:06 And the interpreter is called "a musician" 16:49:31 What if it's a different song than what's on the sheet music? 16:49:32 :P 16:54:52 The way oklofok phrased it, it seems that each sheet represents the full song. I don't think sheet music can do that with multiple-sheet music 17:00:00 Gregor: wow that exists? 17:00:06 people are so fucked up 17:03:09 -!- Azstal has joined. 17:04:53 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:16:26 are everyone on lesswrong atheists? 17:17:44 "Religion is the trial case we can all imagine. (Readers born to atheist parents have missed out on a fundamental life trial, and must make do with the poor substitute of thinking of their religious friends.)" 17:18:48 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:19:20 -!- Pthing has joined. 17:27:02 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:29:26 what does it mean 'Eliezer-level rationalist'? 17:31:13 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:37:31 asiekierka, is green really supposed to have anything to do with left, or is that a red herring? 17:37:42 what 17:37:47 you're doing the untrivial triviality? 17:38:03 the untrivial trivialities* 17:38:11 yes 17:38:13 if so, then that's up to you to find out 17:38:13 Well, did it 17:38:22 how? :D 17:38:44 By skipping a green and going right 17:38:50 (on green) 17:38:55 :O 17:39:04 wait 17:39:05 you mean 17:39:09 you didn't use a stack? :O 17:39:32 Stack's only needed if you actually pay attention to the line about "left" 17:39:47 oh 17:39:49 didn't notice that 17:40:02 so yeah, the title is correct 17:40:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:40:29 A few stars in select locations would fix that 17:41:01 ok, i'll put them 17:41:03 Or would it? 17:41:32 I mean, you'd have to have some in that loop thing if you don't want them just continuing right on green 17:42:32 i'll put them in the locations i can 17:42:37 without spoiling the correct way 17:45:03 oklofok's currently in the 24h lead 17:45:42 Actually, oklofok's solved more total than fizzie o.O 17:45:45 132 17:45:48 oh my 17:46:12 http://robozzle.com/puzzle.aspx?id=1640 - fixed 17:47:47 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:49:12 * Sgeo_ will try it a bit later 17:50:19 You know, there being a chatroom I can talk about RoboZZle in makes it much more fun for me... 17:51:23 and i would love it more if i didn't suck at it 17:51:54 oklofok is obviously delusional. 17:52:03 Thinking he's bad at it 17:52:19 i think i've done like one that's been rated near 4 17:52:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:52:58 I can barely do ones that are rated 2.25 17:53:00 haven't really tried many hard ones, but i couldn't do the last one in the campaign, idea is trivial, i just can't make it work. 17:54:09 * MissPiggy is reading less wrong and worrying about whether I should be reading it or not 17:54:26 What would be wrong with reading it? 17:54:40 should probably take it as a template, and first implementing a working thing that just goes over the size limit 17:55:10 it just seems like a waste of time, even though it's nice to read stuff and nod your head, if you already agree with it all it's sort of pointless? 17:55:20 kind of like blogs in general 17:56:33 maybe you should play robozzle 17:56:50 I'm looking at asiekierkas puzzle, bemused 17:57:36 Which version? 17:58:22 SafeAuto seems to advertise exclusively to people who are driving illegally without insurance. 17:58:51 SG-1 time 17:59:31 Gregor: "Brilliant". 18:00:14 They advertise that you'll save because they'll give you the state minimum coverage. 18:00:24 SafeAuto: Insurance for the irresponsible! 18:00:30 -!- zeotrope has quit ("Lost terminal"). 18:01:23 to damn hard 18:01:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:02:44 MissPiggy, the un-fixed version shouldn't be 18:03:02 how can there be two greens in a row 18:03:14 you can't detect that because the robot only sees what it is standing on 18:06:22 Switch state upon encountering one 18:06:32 So that you start out in F1, but switch to F2 18:13:08 Sgeo_: SG-1? where? 18:14:24 SimonRC, on Hulu 18:15:40 ok 18:16:23 that doesn't work Sgea 18:16:25 Sgeo* 18:18:46 MissPiggy, how not? 18:19:09 imagine you are on a blue path and want to ignore green-green, but turn left on green 18:19:14 that's impossible in robozzle 18:19:26 you have to code in something else, like turn right on the 3rd green 18:19:33 (s/right/left/) 18:20:53 Or ignore just the first green it ever comes across 18:22:43 MissPiggy, remember, this is a broken version. Why should the description have anything to do with the puzzle? 18:25:24 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:28:35 what 18:29:47 it says [fixed] 18:32:27 oh 18:32:35 the [fixed] one has more stars 18:32:38 therefore the solution is not so 18:35:30 not so??? 18:35:33 I don't understand anyone here 18:35:59 is it unsolvable? 18:40:33 the [fixed] one? 18:40:36 hint: it uses stacks 18:40:39 if you can't do stacks, you fail 18:41:13 what's going on with this http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Yudkowsky%27s_coming_of_age 18:41:25 oh nevermind, I get it 18:41:38 I was expecting the posts to be from 2000-2003, but they are from 2008 because it's just talking about 2000-2003 18:46:26 -!- jpc has joined. 18:48:38 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:06:33 it just seems like a waste of time, even though it's nice to read stuff and nod your head, if you already agree with it all it's sort of pointless? 19:07:03 take it to the meta-level: the fact that you agree with all a group says should itself be a warning signal that you are _not_ rational. 19:07:08 * oerjan cackles evilly 19:07:28 I don't know how that is meta-level 19:08:03 because you are then thinking about _why_ you agree with what the blog says 19:08:24 because it's all obvious :[ 19:09:07 the cartoon loeb thing was cool, I didnt' realize he wrote it 19:09:12 the thing is, less wrong is clearly a cult of "rationality". even if they are right. 19:09:30 it's not just a blog? 19:09:44 otoh they've probably discussed that as well 19:09:51 hehe 19:09:52 every blog can develop a cult 19:10:10 Is that a challenge? 19:10:24 :D 19:11:09 i think before accepting the challenge, i'd at least add the qualifier "that many people read" 19:11:29 s/accepting/making/ 19:12:33 also, i just realized i'm saying this because it's obvious, not because i have any actual evidence 19:17:21 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:27:05 -!- oerjan has quit ("Later"). 19:27:42 ughf 19:30:39 "Once upon a time it seemed to me that I ought to be able to win at the AI-Box Experiment; and it seemed like a very doubtful and hubristic thought; so I tested it. Then later it seemed to me that I might be able to win even with large sums of money at stake, and I tested that, but I only won 1 time out of 3. So that was the limit of my ability at that time, and it was not necessary to argue myself upward or downward, because I could just test it. 19:45:23 -!- zeotrope has joined. 19:48:30 lesswrong sort of treats the reader as an idiot. 19:50:41 * mycroftiv googles "lesswrong", follows the link, and finds bizarre cryonics related material 19:54:13 oklofok really?? 19:54:29 I guess that's why I like it 19:56:45 i get a sort of "why don't people think about this stuff?!?!" feeling, and it's annoying because it's really simple stuff 19:57:01 i mean, i get the feeling the writer is saying that 19:57:10 ah I think I was getting that too 19:57:15 maybe it's just because it sounds smart, dunno 19:57:19 ;) 19:58:18 anyway most of the posts seem to be spot on, although you could phrase them more concisely 19:59:09 i guess that's the real reason why i feel i'm being treated as an idiot 19:59:50 i read a few paragraphs and i'm like "yeah i agree people tend to argue about words instead of actual meaning", and then there's like three pages of explaining and examples and blah 20:00:47 hehe 20:00:52 yeah 20:03:04 on the other hand i can't stop reading :P 20:03:26 comments seem to be youtube level 20:03:47 where on the internet are comments not youtube level, though? 20:07:05 well here on irc we tend to be pretty smurt right 20:08:06 actually #esoteric is probably the single most intellectually terrifying place on the internet, I'd agree - I mean I can do some programming, I understand stuff like symbolic logic a bit, but a lot of people in here seem to be able to analyze formal systems almost instinctively 20:09:10 I sometimes get the impression here this IRC channel is like an alternate reality composed of kids who were brought up on 'my first turing complete formal language specitication' in the crib 20:10:03 haha 20:10:41 analysing stuff instantly is a distinct skill from analysing stuff properly though 20:11:43 true but "research shows" (waves hand) that in general, smarter people 'think faster' - even to the level of physical reflexes, i believe 20:12:47 if we shrink everyone by a factor of 2, we well all have on average IQ 800, because the cubic scale factor 20:13:18 at the same time, though, it is true that "other research shows" (waves other hand) that "innate talent" is a much worse predictor of successful outcome than sustained effort and concentration 20:14:16 speaking if intelligence, have people here taken IQ tests? 20:14:17 *of 20:14:23 not for decades 20:14:50 IQ goes down as you get older (i.e. bigger, so the distance between neurons gets further and you think slower) 20:15:34 are you sure that's a physiological truth and not the punchline of a joke? 20:15:40 i find both plausible 20:17:27 i mean the definition of IQ i saw on mensa does seem to be about actual speed of neurons and not so much actual problem solving skill 20:17:35 :)))) 20:18:58 i took the test on their page, i'm pretty sure anyone can reach the "top %1 of population", the upper limit of their web test, if they've played flash games 20:19:08 on the subject of high-IQ, anyone here ever run into Chris Langan and his CTMU theory on the web? in the past few years he seems to have decided, somewhat oddly in my view, to become culturally affiliated with the awfulness of "creation science" 20:20:53 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 20:21:17 Cognitive Theoretical Model of the Universe 20:22:17 looks compilcated 20:22:27 -!- madbr has joined. 20:22:27 eh, sadly id say hes mostly degenerated into pseudoscience 20:22:44 who 20:23:00 pretty obvious that it's pseudoscience by the rainbow

's 20:23:38 I wonder what the IQ for some of these idiot-savants is 20:23:48 obvious by the title 20:23:52 There's lots of pseudoscience around. Sometimes it even involves serious studies, where everything goes well until one would need to draw the conclusions... 20:24:35 i think CTMU is actually more substantial than it seems, and actually borders on being decent *philosophy*, but i fail to understand why he would present it as a 'scientific theory' 20:24:49 what about that John Conway guy? 20:25:06 what's he doing these days 20:25:08 isnt that game of life conway? 20:25:30 "The Cognitive-Theoretic Model of the Universe" 20:25:36 " 20:25:37 Jump to: navigation, search 20:25:37 The free will theorem of John H. Conway and Simon B. Kochen states that, if we have a certain amount of "free will", then, subject to certain assumptions, so must some elementary particles." 20:25:38 oops 20:26:17 seems a lot less quacky now that I read it on wiki rather than Times or The Sun whereever I heard about it first 20:26:46 This is postmodern or something 20:27:21 "Mathematically, the theoretical framework of Intelligent Design" 20:28:12 back when i found langan's stuff a few years ago, he hadn't thrown in with those guys, we was still mostly claiming to be extending traditional hard science 20:28:53 I'd say he couldn't meet their standards for publication and found the ID people were considerably more welcoming 20:29:18 "you cannot describe the universe completely with any accuracy unless you're willing to admit that it's both physical and mental in nature" 20:29:50 In conjunction with his ideas, Langan has claimed that "you can prove the existence of God, the soul and an afterlife, using mathematics." 20:29:57 (quoting wikiped) 20:30:35 wow, im kinda surprised CTMU survived General Notability Guidelines - although i guess it sneaks in on Langan's coattails because he had some popular media attention as world's highest IQ man 20:31:27