00:00:21 also consider the fact that its entirely possible to have an INTRANSITIVE verb, lets say blump 00:00:22 such that 00:00:44 if john is blumping, then john is kissing someone allergic to peanuts 00:02:14 the problem is making allergen an argument to the verb 00:03:29 lojban does that all the time btw 00:03:35 blumping? 00:03:41 no i mean 00:03:42 i blump all the time too! 00:03:44 :) 00:04:17 well me too, but i mean most lojban verbs have all sorts of args, and you can cherrypick any subset of them to use 00:04:22 now that we're abusing that term 00:04:27 ;) 00:04:48 but also consider that like 00:04:51 alise 00:05:05 i think it's the same thing, even if you put "fo" before the argument to say "this is not the usual argument you'd see here" 00:05:07 "john blumped mary" cannot mean "john kissed mary, who is allergic to peanuts" 00:05:41 but it could mean "john kissed mary, making her allergic to peanuts" 00:05:41 well see, having an overt marker like 'fo' is different 00:05:47 oh it is? 00:05:48 I really want a language which cannot express statements that are false in logic 00:05:50 because its essentially just an argument 00:05:50 maybe 00:06:02 i.e. not just a mere declaration "X is syntactically invalid", just that it is impossible to formulate. 00:06:04 Is such a thing possible? 00:06:10 the point is that the word itself, with no option for a marker 00:06:13 I guess not; the syntax would need to have magic knowledge of every proof. 00:06:23 alise: sure it is 00:06:24 But you could encode the proof into the syntactic structure, perhaps. 00:06:50 but it would only work for some certain kind of falsity 00:06:53 e.g. mathematical falsity 00:06:55 or contradictions 00:07:23 and such a language would be, for instance, the language of all non-contradictions in logic 00:07:48 which is really just logic. 00:07:56 or a consistent one, anyway. 00:08:10 aye, but syntactically 00:08:12 in logic, I can say 00:08:15 p & ~p 00:08:19 it's untrue, but I can formulate it 00:08:27 you could declare "any false statement is a syntax error", but I mean rather in the sense 00:08:30 you can formulate it, if by formulate you mean "write the symbols" 00:08:31 if you thought of p & ~p 00:08:37 and followed the normal process of logical expression -> language 00:08:39 you would run into a dead end 00:08:42 but p & ~p CANNOT be formulated from the AXIOMS of your logic 00:08:49 write the symbols, yes 00:08:51 that is what I mean 00:09:00 instead of just saying 00:09:02 but your axioms happen to be nothing more than the grammar of some higher order language 00:09:03 false things are syntax errors 00:09:08 it would be 00:09:13 this is the algorithm for logic statement -> language 00:09:16 if you feed it a false statement 00:09:21 (without any special checks for that; 00:09:27 right but alise, my point is 00:09:28 i.e. it doesn't do | ifFalse x = lolerror) 00:09:31 it just runs into a dead end 00:09:33 and goes all _|_ 00:09:49 it would be the ultimate rationalist's language 00:10:07 a consistent logic is merely a particular sort of grammar 00:10:17 One would simply be unable to express any false thought in it; all that is said will be either true, or nonsense in the same way that "If the ;fdg" is in English. 00:10:23 thats what logic is, after all, a grammar for a particular language 00:10:34 yes, but is it practical to define such a language? 00:10:40 Could humans learn it, even if communication in it would be slow? 00:10:43 well it wouldnt be possible for a human to learn 00:10:44 (and possibly require translation) 00:10:48 i.e. not really learn 00:10:52 but memorise the algorithm to speak in it 00:11:21 its possible for people to consciously learn pretty much anything 00:11:25 but that doesnt make it language 00:11:58 just because i can speak in lisp doesnt mean that my brain is treating lisp remotely like its treating english 00:12:20 you can't consciously learn to fly tho 00:12:33 this is true. 00:12:35 i really want to become fluent in a programming language 00:12:43 I believe people can be fluent in Perl; nay, I believe people /are/ fluent in Perl. 00:12:55 Not the entire range of Perl programs, just like most English speakers aren't poets. 00:12:57 not like they are with a natural language 00:12:59 But a good subset of it. 00:13:03 augur: Why not? Perl is close. 00:13:24 say "Hello, world" if $appliance->on; 00:13:32 Say "Hello, world" if the appliance's on. 00:13:44 indeed 00:13:45 i don't know about perl, but python is certainly easier to speak in than natural languages, there's just a slight lack of vocabulary 00:14:01 but thats a) a subset, and b) not exactly underived FROM a natural language 00:14:12 Languages borrow from each other. 00:14:17 in python, you never have to think, you just start typing 00:14:31 yes, but being fluent in a programming language thats derived from a natural language isnt really all that interesting, is it 00:14:51 while ($appliance->on) { say for @todo_list } 00:15:09 While the appliance's on, speak for each item in todo list. 00:15:16 augur: yes it is 00:15:18 because you're not really fluent in the programming language 00:15:22 it means you can express your thoughts to the computer incredibly naturally 00:15:29 its more that the computer is fluent in that (subset) of your natural language. 00:15:31 augur: Perlists seem to be incredibly good with their idioms 00:15:49 I'm not so sure you can claim outright that nobody is fluent in a useful, common subset of PErl. 00:15:51 *Perl 00:15:57 sure, but the point is that those idioms are parasitic on your pre-existing competence in english 00:16:04 The differences between it and natural languages aren't that big. 00:16:06 augur: Of course. 00:16:13 But they're still /different/. 00:16:19 perhaps 00:16:36 If they were invented idioms of the same general lax form, I bet you could learn it to a similar degree of fluency; with tens to hundreds of times the effort, yes. 00:16:38 but if theyre different in ways that arent impossible in natural language, all you've done is become fluent in a natural language that happens to not be natural. 00:16:49 But just as you can learn English idioms, idioms of the same form are learnable too, whether they're in a programming language or not. 00:16:52 the real question is could someone be fluent in something like Forth 00:16:56 which is decidedly unnatural 00:17:09 is SOV really that unnatural 00:17:15 or is it OSV, dunno 00:17:17 its not that Forth is SOV 00:17:21 2 3 - => 2 - 3 00:17:22 so SOV 00:17:22 its that forth is stack oriented 00:17:34 SOV languages are by far the most common 00:17:39 augur: good Forth has a small stack, though. 00:17:51 and never does thing ............... verb 00:17:54 perhaps. in principle it could be arbitrarily large 00:17:59 in _principle_ anyway 00:18:08 you can write sentences that mention a thing, go on a million tangents, then continue talking about that thing in english too 00:18:13 doesn't mean fluency in english is impossible 00:18:25 eh. example 00:19:12 okay 00:20:14 i mean, its not like you dont get big constructions like that in natural language, right. SOV languages notoriously have deeply nested things like that. but what im talking about is GENUINELY stack oriented. not merely SOV with large things between the S/O and the V 00:20:17 The oranges, which were the cause of a gross incident in 1794 when Tom, who was a rat in a band primarily targeted towards the 8-12 horse-lover market, died after eating one that looked incredibly delicious, though this was in fact unwise as the turtles that pooped them out actually made sure they were poisonous, as they positively hated turtles, though, of course, Tom was completely oblivious to this fact when he digested them, were eaten. 00:20:46 e.g. with stack operations like swap, rotate, duplicate, etc. 00:20:57 rot is bad Forth style 00:21:06 and Lojban has things similar to swap and rot 00:21:11 erm 00:21:12 and dup 00:21:12 perhaps. i wasnt using forth itself as a good example of this. 00:21:16 (you can specify argument position and I'm sure you can say "again" for an argument) 00:21:26 but the point is that genuine stack orientedness seems VERY difficult for people to grasp 00:21:35 I do think if Forth's vocabulary was about the world rather than a computer, it would be possible to be fluent in it. 00:22:05 that doesnt seem to be the case, however. 00:22:18 cannibals their species members dup eat do 00:22:30 erm 00:22:32 let me rewrite that 00:22:41 dup itself actually wouldnt be enormously complicated, to be honest 00:22:47 cannibals their species members dup eat are-those-that 00:22:49 its just kinda like very local reflexivity 00:22:58 errr 00:22:58 more like 00:23:00 this is hard 00:23:03 their species members dup eat 00:23:12 cannibals species their members dup eat 00:23:17 "Members of their species eat members of their species" 00:23:22 augur: right 00:23:32 also note that idiomatic forth actually reads in english style :) 00:23:40 as in, SVO 00:23:44 because of the typical style of coding 00:23:58 i wonder if japanese idiomatic forth reads more SOV 00:24:09 i don't think anyone writes japanese idiomatic forth 00:24:14 unfortunate. 00:24:19 i would bet it doesnt look like SOV at all. 00:24:25 but i think the vocab shapes it 00:24:26 the lang 00:24:27 as in 00:24:36 SVO presumably has properties that make implementation, and the use of it, superior 00:24:38 a better question tho is whether or not such a limitation would be because of MEMORY or because of grammar 00:24:43 otherwise forthers would just accept the rpn; they do for arithmetic 00:24:50 anyway dup would be useful in everyday speech 00:24:53 i think 00:24:58 well, we sort of DO have dupe 00:24:59 dup 00:25:03 its called a reflexive 00:25:10 "I read it and dup and dup, but I still didn't understand it." 00:25:20 what 00:25:50 in forth, 00:25:57 i it read dup and dup and 00:26:01 whats the dup's doing there tho 00:26:07 i.e., you get i-read-it on the stack, then you get i-read-it i-read-it 00:26:09 then you and it 00:26:13 i-read-it-and-i-read-it 00:26:15 and again 00:26:17 i-read-it-and-i-read-it-and-i-read-it 00:26:18 oh i see 00:26:22 "I read it and read it and read it, but I still didn't understand it." 00:26:25 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:45 well you'd have four readings 00:26:47 but whatever 00:26:56 why 00:27:07 because you're duping "i-read-it-and-i-read-it" 00:27:11 ah, yes 00:27:14 whatever 00:27:15 but anyway 00:27:24 -!- coppro has joined. 00:27:32 what, why would dup duplicated the whole stack 00:27:36 we can SORT of do that 00:27:41 *duplicate 00:27:42 oklopol: its not the whole stack 00:27:45 well then 00:27:50 why would it concatenate its result 00:27:52 s 00:27:52 its the top most syntactic object, which is a conjunction in this case 00:27:58 apparently, according to ehird. 00:28:05 oh, the why have a stack 00:28:07 *alise 00:28:07 but anyway 00:28:11 *then 00:28:16 oklopol: for multiple values 00:28:20 oranges sam ate 00:28:22 oranges 00:28:23 oranges sam 00:28:24 well i mean 00:28:26 sam-ate-oranges 00:28:28 I like OSV 00:28:32 it's poetic. :P 00:28:38 (yes, I know, don't start) 00:28:40 alise, we do sort of have dup 00:28:46 in that you have reflexives 00:28:50 if dup is o => o+o instead of o => o, o; that's just not very stacky 00:28:53 augur: like? 00:28:56 e.g. "john hit himself" ~ john dup hit 00:28:57 oklopol: dup is o => o o 00:29:05 it i read dup and 00:29:05 -> 00:29:06 it 00:29:07 it i 00:29:08 eh 00:29:10 i-read-it 00:29:12 i-read-it i-read-it 00:29:13 you clearly aren't following this conversation 00:29:14 i-read-it-and-i-read-it 00:29:32 infact, some languages mark reflexivity on the verb 00:29:40 so there is a marker essentially like 00:29:47 john duphit 00:29:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:30:01 stack oriented is easy to read if you actively visualize everything 00:30:19 except reflexivity is extraordinarily flexible in what can be reflexivized 00:30:29 i mean actually visualize a stack of those objects 00:30:39 oklopol: thats exactly the point 00:30:46 you have to visualize this shit to understand it 00:30:54 which is NOT the case with natural language 00:31:05 you dont have to even THINK about what someone says to just understand it 00:31:09 sure i do 00:31:18 no, you dont, stop being obstinate 00:31:20 i often have to translate sentences to logic 00:31:25 and use inference rules 00:31:27 no seriously 00:31:37 augur: when will you realise that *oklopol* *is* *not* *human* 00:31:38 just get ove rit 00:31:40 *over it 00:31:48 you can't make your rules apply to him just because you say they do 00:31:52 alise: :P 00:31:57 your theory works on humans, not oklopol 00:31:59 give up 00:32:10 oklopol just likes being contrarian 00:32:10 i mean sure, sometimes i can read sentences without thinking, just like i can sometimes read code or math without thinking 00:32:28 but just as often, i need to do some intermediate steps 00:32:31 augur: I'm pretty sure his cognitive structure is different to most people's. 00:32:34 little does he realize how little he actually knows about what is going on in his mind 00:32:40 lol 00:32:55 Although I've never found anyone with the same configuration, so I hereby deem it oklism. 00:33:39 brb 00:34:06 "augur: little does he realize how little he actually knows about what is going on in his mind" <<< this is very insulting 00:34:23 agreed 00:34:43 oklopol: no, its just a fact. humans are barely aware of whats actually going on in their brains. 00:34:44 i think augur is a bit too certain of the universal applicability of mainstream linguistics 00:34:54 augur: if oklopol reads a sentence, can't understand it 00:34:56 translates it to logic 00:34:58 and understands it 00:35:02 im not saying that doesnt happen 00:35:04 then his brain clearly didn't understand it until that happened 00:35:14 that happens plenty for lots of people 00:35:17 augur: it's also a fact i often need to translate sentences to logic, very explicitly, to see what they mean. 00:35:34 i mean i actually visualize the simplification of the sentence 00:35:37 oklopol, you didnt translate the sentence you just said FROM logic into english. 00:35:48 nor the one i just said INTO logic 00:35:58 he said often 00:35:59 not always 00:36:04 and thats the point! 00:36:04 no, i didn't, i don't always have to do that, just like i usually don't have to think about what python line to write, or how to manipulate some algebraic expression. 00:36:17 sure 00:36:27 anyway, this is stupid 00:36:31 if I could be more like oklopol i would 00:36:33 ...up to a certain point 00:37:09 yes, it's very stupid to tell me how i think. 00:37:13 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:37:23 its very stupid to think you know how you think :P 00:37:32 alise, did you get those pictures, or is that irrelevant now? 00:37:34 words to live by 00:37:39 Sgeo: it's probably irrelevant for now 00:37:41 sure, but it's not stupid of me to tell you facts about how i think. 00:37:52 but you dont KNOW the facts about how you think 00:37:54 i don't claim to understand it 00:37:54 thats the point 00:38:03 oh it's oklopol, he's not human anyway 00:38:03 not "the facts", some facts 00:38:22 anyway 00:38:49 augur: when will you realise that *oklopol* *is* *not* *human* 00:38:49 just get ove rit 00:38:49 *over it 00:38:49 you can't make your rules apply to him just because you say they do 00:38:49 alise: :P 00:38:50 your theory works on humans, not oklopol 00:38:51 give up 00:38:54 oerjan: he didn't listen 00:38:59 "augur: oklopol, you didnt translate the sentence you just said FROM logic into english." <<< i usually picture an arrow from logic to english to see what way the objects map 00:39:02 ( augur: I'm pretty sure his cognitive structure is different to most people's. Although I've never found anyone with the same configuration, so I hereby deem it oklism.) 00:39:20 ANYWAY 00:39:23 alise: hey i didn't remember you saying that 00:39:27 this is a stupid thing to talk about. 00:39:31 oerjan: I said it just before you came in. :P 00:39:36 so clearly he now has it from two _independent_ sources 00:39:36 yeah, it is stupid, stop it 00:39:48 augur: it's _science_, bitch 00:40:05 oerjan: you're right, it is. and science has shown that people dont have a fucking clue whats going on in their heads. 00:40:12 I wish I was oklistic 00:40:16 but they THINK they do 00:40:18 augur: no, i mean that oklopol isn't human 00:40:23 oerjan: :P 00:40:34 I should set up the Society for the Study and Recognition of Oklism 00:40:48 i don't really believe much of science, i just believe in individual studies. 00:40:54 on our website under Experiments will be conversation snippets from oklopol 00:41:12 the actual science is how researchers interpreted the stuff, i want to make my own interpretations. 00:41:13 today i went to a linguistics talk 00:41:16 a PLENARY talk 00:41:17 in which 00:41:20 one of the examples 00:41:36 alise: you're such a fangirl :D 00:41:50 oh shit it's late 00:41:58 one of the examples was 00:42:04 and i swear, this is quoted directly from the handout 00:42:23 "When he came, his semen short circuited the sander and electrocuted him dead" 00:42:24 oklopol: totally 00:42:38 augur: hahaha what 00:42:44 yes 00:42:54 i fucking swear 00:43:11 you shouldve seen the stuff that was common back in the generative semantics days 00:43:33 there was a transformational grammar rule called the Euphemistic Genital Deletion rule 00:43:39 XD 00:43:48 clearly this was from the olden days, when men were real men, women were real women, and sex was fucking dangerous 00:43:55 which took sentences like "John's penis was too big to fit into Mary's vagina" and turned it into "John was too big for Mary" 00:44:02 "Grinder's Apparel Pronoun Deletion (for the syntactic behavior f certain sentences concerning disrobing)" 00:44:04 what. 00:44:11 oerjan: :D 00:44:15 :) 00:44:20 * oklopol had to visualize that situation to understand the sentence 00:44:24 oh wait 00:44:28 i guess also i should stop this 00:44:32 not just you 00:44:35 oklopol, are you too big for me? 00:44:36 :X 00:44:46 alise, there were also shit tonnes of references to drugs and politics 00:44:50 really i think i'm just retarded 00:44:56 i think you're just a nerd 00:44:56 augur: what about hugs 00:45:00 where there any references to hugs 00:45:05 who's too into being a nerd 00:45:05 *were 00:45:08 alise: no, no hugs 00:45:17 you don't think oklopol thinks a leetle bit differently from the average human being? 00:45:28 his esolangs and `quote should be rather sufficient evidence for that 00:45:35 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:45:42 ...as well as his university career 00:45:51 `quote oklopol 00:45:53 48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 50| 00:45:57 `quote oklopol 00:45:58 48| i can get an erection out of a plank, you can quote me on that. 50| 00:46:02 stupid HackEgo 00:46:11 http://209.20.80.194/sgeo/quotes.txt 00:46:22 alise: maybe hes a wee aspy, but honestly, not really. he comes off like a typical "TEEHEE IM A NERD IVE GOT OCD OMG IM ADDICTED TO CAFFEINE TEEHEE SO NERDY" nerd 00:46:28 91| actually just ate some of the dog food because i didn't have any human food... after a while they start tasting like porridge 00:46:31 augur: he's right here, you know 00:46:33 and you're being a jerk 00:46:34 only hes smarter when it comes to his pseudoailments 00:46:48 I've never seen oklopol describe himself as having some ailment; ever. 00:46:53 well, at least, not a mental one. 00:47:01 and youll never see a nerd describe his "ocd" as an ailment either 00:47:05 thats irrelevant. 00:47:18 also, hes a big boy, im sure he can handle some mild criticism. 00:47:38 oklopol: i think this is the point where you demolish him intellectually and he feels terribly small 00:47:42 QUICK 00:47:43 :P 00:47:51 "Hey, if John went to Chicago, that means we'll soon have a big supply of dope." 00:47:59 another sentence from the good old Generative Semantics days 00:48:12 ... Ate dog food? WTF? 00:48:43 if it tastes like porridge i see no problem 00:48:50 "Nixon, you imperialist butcher, take your lunatic Secretary of Defence and shove him up your ass" 00:48:54 lol 00:49:30 also 53| anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo list 00:49:37 * oerjan has subconsciously classified oklopol as the sanest person on this channel, actually. admittedly my classifications may not be reliable. 00:49:51 he's so sane he wrapped around again 00:49:54 and again, a few more times 00:49:57 alise: lol. 00:50:16 you know im kinda into bdsm? as in, whipping. 00:50:26 we don't need to know. 00:50:27 :Ds 00:50:31 oklopol: :D 00:50:39 no, really, we have no requirement for that knowledge. whatsoever 00:50:41 i didn't _know_, but i was in no way _surprised_ 00:50:49 ;) 00:51:07 oerjan: I think he interpreted your statement as innuendo. 00:51:11 so perhaps i knew, subconsciously 00:51:19 oerjan: oklopol? Really? Until you made that claim, I would have said /you/ were amongst the sanest people on this channel. 00:51:27 god I'm such a genius 00:51:31 sorry, just had a bout of egotism there 00:51:33 happens occasionally 00:51:43 alise: EgoBot forgives you. 00:51:56 how genius is egobot 00:52:00 Gregor: hm 00:52:13 Gregor: I'd term you one of the sanest. 00:52:18 Pah 00:52:19 Nonsense 00:52:20 Though I'm not entirely sure how. 00:52:38 Before oerjan thinking oklopol sane, I would have termed him the sanest. :P 00:53:44 Where am I sanity-wise 00:53:48 "augur: oklopol, are you too big for me?" <<< yeah i doubt my penis would fit in your penis 00:54:14 oklopol: we could try 00:54:34 i'm not nerdy 00:54:50 i think thats the most false thing ive ever heard. 00:54:56 hypothesis: sanity does not travel well over irc 00:54:58 oklopol isn't a nerd 00:55:08 nerd, geek, i use them interchangably 00:55:22 he has a sex life (or has been lying to us consistently), he tends to have a negative opinion of coding 00:55:27 but yeah, the reason i usually don't tell people i'm mad is because everyone does it 00:55:28 definitely not a computer geek, mathematics geek maybe 00:55:28 Sgeo: insufficient data for meaningful answer 00:55:35 his esolangs always tend towards the theoretical, so 00:55:36 AFK 00:55:45 http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/gs.pdf 00:55:47 i don't remember him showing any ginormous enthusiasm to CS 00:55:48 so i just occasionally mention facts about my life, it's equally fun, i love sharing 00:55:50 so i guess maths nerd 00:55:52 in case anyones interested in the Generative Semantics program 00:56:05 AnMaster is the sanest here, probably, but he's also boring and orthodox and wrong. 00:56:08 alise: i don't really think i can demolish people intellectually 00:56:12 bah 00:56:15 ... i said that years ago 00:56:16 :P 00:56:31 Gregor is probably the second-sanest, and is vastly superior by way of being actually interesting and not hideously wrong about everything 00:56:38 oerjan: I think insanity just carries much more funnily over IRC 00:57:04 well, sanity is boring, that's what 00:57:06 olsner: what a ridiculous hypothesis -----### 00:58:09 ridiculous? how? 00:58:31 also i don't think i have ocd, i have the ability to get interested in whatever i want, so i can simulate ocd is i find that necessary. 00:58:35 if you don't understand that i'll have to drown you in tomato sauce. spicy. 00:58:38 olsner: right but Gregor is a sane, normal person he's just intelligent and has weird ideas 00:58:42 this is just a skill i've spent thousands of hours developing. 00:58:55 oklopol: i dont think you have ocd either. i was just using that as an example of the _typical_ geek "fake ailment" 00:58:56 ...okay that came out wrong 00:59:02 thats what she said 00:59:11 AnMaster is a sane, normal person and sure okay he has intelligence but his ideas are boring and he doesn't seem to be able to think of really interesting ones 00:59:19 dunno how you'd quantify the different, it isn't sanity 00:59:20 augur: how would that even work 00:59:23 speaking of her, hows 2tullia? 00:59:26 wait, don't answer 00:59:28 maybe... creativity but on the oddness axis 00:59:30 oerjan: how would what even work? X 00:59:31 XD 01:00:28 i'm also not addicted to coffee, just caffeine, and i definitely love addictions 01:00:53 food -> 01:01:28 so really none of what you said is true of me, but probably i do sound like exactly how you described me 01:01:28 also i wish my lag was a few minutes less. 01:01:37 I'm definitely getting/gotten stuck on my new esolang... 01:01:51 alise: Gregor's actually somewhat eccentric. 01:02:12 oklopol: i didnt say YOU portrayed yourself as having OCD or a coffee addiction 01:02:17 i specifically said you DIDNT 01:02:31 i said you portray yourself with similarly geeky "quirks" 01:02:51 eg "lol i have to translate into higher order predicate logic to understand you lololol" 01:03:02 which is an exageration of what you said but you get the point 01:03:19 pikhq: presumably he can function normally in society 01:03:20 hmm, maybe I should just make it turing complete, release it and leave it for the rest of the world to figure out how to do IO with it... but that seems kind of boring 01:03:21 apart from the hat thing 01:03:28 anyway i do like telling people how mad i am, but it's not so much that i want to separate myself from others or anything, i just love sharing personal details, especially all sorts of craziness, which i'm very enthusiastic about, in both directions 01:03:29 olsner: what is it? 01:03:31 tell us 01:04:03 oklopol: enthusiasm about ones presumed madnesses is a typical geek trait. which is the point. :| 01:04:12 alise: "Eccentric" does not mean "cannot function normally". 01:04:33 well i mean 01:04:35 alise: Means things like "has a fondness for hats" or "has a fondness for a soda that can't be easily found outside of Maine". 01:04:37 alise: fun with making input and output harder instead of (or in addition to) making the actual computation hard 01:04:47 pikhq: yes but I wouldn't consider those in any way related to real insanity 01:05:01 by which I don't mean literally not being sane, but being really crazy 01:05:01 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:05:03 alise: Yes. I'm not saying he's insane in any way. 01:05:06 oklopol is crazy, Gregor isn't 01:05:10 Just mildly eccentric. 01:08:12 trying to figure out just how hard I actually made it, but it looks like a 'cat' program is around O(n^2.3) in input size (that's with C-code and MPFR and GMP doing the computation, doing it by hand in some turing tarpit would probably be a lot slower) 01:09:23 augur: i'm not really especially enthusiastic in my own madness 01:09:23 in fact definitely more interesting in others 01:09:35 but yes, i get your point 01:11:36 i have exactly the same characteristics as a generic own-geekiness-loving geek has. and maybe i have them for the same reasons every other geek has. really i'm just correcting your details because i dislike you telling me these facts, because they are annoying. 01:11:58 or something along those lines 01:12:13 oklopol, those "details" were explicitly stated as being NOT facts about YOU 01:12:35 yeah, yeah, and i guess i misinterpreted them. 01:12:42 i mean misinterpreted the sentence 01:13:00 yes, obviously. 01:13:01 this lag makes it sorta hard to pay attention 01:13:39 oklopol: wait, the ping _says_ 19 seconds but the response was _actually_ immediate 01:13:39 lag, or drugs 01:13:53 you're not lagged to me 01:13:58 oerjan: his computer is high. 01:14:07 in any case, i have to correct something, because i can't correct your impression of me. 01:14:18 :P 01:14:20 oklopol: well i think you're a beautiful snowflake. 01:14:40 i think oklopol is a hot piece of manmeat 01:14:59 i hear i'm pretty hot when i've showered recently 01:15:00 i'm not significantly lagged to augur either 01:15:18 oklopol, i demant photographic proof 01:15:20 speaking of which, she's fine, currently visiting her parents and works with some dude with MS 01:15:35 hmm 01:15:36 that was a weird sentence 01:15:41 two different facts about her 01:15:47 not sure if either is very relevant 01:16:36 -!- blagobu has joined. 01:16:48 especially since she hadn't been previously mentioned, you know 01:16:49 well 01:16:54 what was weird about it is the tense mismatch 01:16:58 sure she had 01:17:01 its actually ungrammatically 01:17:02 Hm, Hackiki is just a little over three months old. 01:17:03 .. 01:17:05 ungrammatical. 01:17:09 not recently 01:17:17 I neglected to celebrate its 1/4th-year anniversary :P 01:17:58 augur: you're mom is ungrammatical 01:18:04 she often is 01:18:13 as is "you're mom is ungrammatical" 01:18:14 Gregor: you'll be _so_ sorry for that when it develops sapience 01:18:16 :D 01:18:23 oklopol just likes to rub his wimmen lyfe into our faeces 01:18:24 er faces 01:18:29 that was /so/ a typo 01:18:36 oerjan: Oh I doubt it :P 01:18:46 Gregor: are you /sure/ you understood Creating Friendly AI 01:18:59 Who ever said it was supposed to be friendly? 01:19:04 MUAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 01:19:06 oh, dear 01:19:14 well at least we'll have all the paperclips we could possibly want 01:19:19 unfortunately, "we" will be an empty set 01:20:04 paperclips is _so_ last cataclysm 01:20:36 "alise: oklopol just likes to rub his wimmen lyfe into our faeces" <<< i keep talking about my gf, but really i try not to, it's just i don't really have much else to say in conversations, because i have gf and i have uni stuff. 01:20:36 i mean that's another stereotype i seriously try to fight being 01:20:36 the guy who always talks about his gf 01:20:37 i just have no life outside her 01:20:40 well except here and at uni i can talk about other stuff often 01:20:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xc9l7pygQRo 01:20:48 great music 01:20:51 fucked up video 01:20:56 is it gitten rape 01:20:57 ... Life? 01:20:59 *kitten 01:21:01 so i guess i'm not that guy here, but irl i often feel like i am 01:21:07 What is this "social life" of which you speak. 01:21:08 oklopol: wait you're always inside her? 01:21:19 My social life seriously consists of IM and IRC. 01:21:25 -!- blagobu has left (?). 01:21:43 oklopol: do you really talk about 2tuulia much?? 01:21:46 i dont notice this. 01:22:02 oh? cool 01:22:06 oklopol has a girlfriend? 01:22:39 -!- jcp has joined. 01:22:59 has he ever not had a girlfriend 01:23:08 i thought i mention my gf all the time, probably i'm just paranoid 01:23:08 yeah, we've lived together for 1.5 years 01:23:08 okay maybe i don't talk about her *that much*. 01:23:32 surprisingly rarely 01:23:42 oklopol: oh i thought it was probably a new one 01:23:48 you know, oklopol, surely you can't do the same thing for like 01:23:50 you don't know that. i didn't have a gf like half of high school 01:23:51 more than a few hours 01:23:52 oh cool 01:23:55 unintentional innuendo 01:23:56 i am rad 01:24:12 just casual sex with my ex 01:24:47 oklopol, can we have casual sex? :D 01:24:50 * Sgeo never had a gf 01:25:09 i don't really have sex with dudes 01:25:22 well you should start 01:25:40 Sgeo: boo hoo 01:25:41 well i don't really have a reason not to try it 01:25:43 especially with me. 01:25:44 except that guys are ugly 01:25:48 i don't really have sex with dudes, only in my imagination 01:25:49 you're not! 01:25:51 /me is fully willing to have sex with a female who once was a dude 01:26:09 sgeo is a modern, 21st century man. 01:26:27 augur: yeah but i can't have sex with myself 01:26:36 oklopol: clones. 01:26:40 ah! 01:26:47 "I'm fully willing to have sex with a woman who was once a man, or a man who was once a woman, or a frog who was once a prince." 01:26:47 send in the clones 01:27:01 Gregor: that a quote? 01:27:09 Gregor: :D 01:27:15 Not of somebody, I just wanted to make it clear that frog sex was not my statement :P 01:27:17 Sgeo: i've gotten most of my girlfriends by essentially stalking them and constantly telling them they're pretty (well except for the three longer relationships i've had :P) 01:27:29 so, there's a good tip 01:27:46 tip: dont stalk girls 01:27:48 obviously. 01:27:49 So, they were only girlfriends in your mind then :P 01:27:55 Stalk guys instead 01:28:14 Lie about what people say 01:28:25 Gregor: entirely true. 01:28:39 oerjan: Pretty much. 01:28:47 Sockpuppetting is fun! 01:29:38 i only have sex with femaly frogs 01:29:41 *female 01:29:43 本当に! 01:29:54 "femaly" 01:29:57 a prince would turn into a male frog right? 01:29:57 Well, female enough. 01:30:11 Probably? 01:30:26 Male and female frogs both have cloacas, so who cares :P 01:30:40 i was just about to ask about their genitals 01:31:01 biology is not one of my strongest subjects 01:31:32 Nonmammalian genitalia are unusual. 01:31:42 pikhq: That was a dumb statement :P 01:31:52 oklopol: dont deny it, dudes are sexful. 01:31:52 no they're not, they're the majority 01:32:13 So I was on this quiz bowl thing at school, and we were practicing. One of the questions was about some hormone. So I answered "Reproductive system" 01:32:26 Gregor: I pride myself on dumb statements. 01:32:36 /me is fully willing to have sex with a female who once was a dude 01:32:40 "Trust $name to know all about the reproductive system. The female reproductive system" 01:32:42 augur: yes i do 01:32:47 transvaginas tend to be much less sensitive than the real thing iirc 01:32:54 if you can settle for penor i guess that's acceptable 01:33:14 I don't want penor 01:33:25 what? XD 01:33:29 * augur flops on oklopols lap 01:33:37 This conversation is so much bizarre :P 01:33:56 Sgeo: Well tough for you. You have penor. 01:34:05 did someone say penor? 01:34:08 And you're not about to remove it. 01:34:09 XD 01:34:09 augur: is that one of those complicated verbs? 01:34:10 Not for long! 01:34:16 bsmntbombdood: THAT drags you out of idle-land? :P 01:34:17 oklopol: no. its one of those simple ones. 01:34:25 `define penor 01:34:27 * Kyabj Drubwang Pema Norbu Rinpoche (1932 - March 27, 2009) was the 11th throne holder of the Palyul Lineage of the Nyingma school of Tibetan ... \ [15]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penor \ 01:34:30 let me translate it into first order predicate logic for you 01:34:36 curses 01:34:49 would you like a full derivation of the first order logic form, or do you just want the truth conditions, oklopol? 01:34:49 Gregor: yeah, i've got a highlight on it 01:35:28 augur: lol think i'm some sorta noob? latter 01:35:41 bsmntbombdood: Wow :P 01:37:22 ignoring tense and so forth, ∃x:augur(x)[ ∃y:oklopol(y)[ ∃e[flopping(e) & agent(e,x) & theme(e,y) ]]] 01:37:41 thats also ignoring the possibility of a verb decomposition 01:37:46 a not so tense conversation 01:38:03 its also neglecting possible worlds and so forth. 01:38:24 what's the weird character? 01:38:34 exists? 01:38:39 hmm 01:38:45 transpenor is pretty rubbish iirc 01:38:52 yes 01:39:06 Sgeo: do your liberal sensitivities outweigh your limited sexual prospects with transpeople> 01:39:07 **? 01:39:08 *? 01:39:09 :P 01:39:10 alise, true, but thats ok. transboy cunts can still be fun. especially transboy clit. 01:39:26 i see. that does indeed explain the concept quite well 01:39:29 oh my 01:39:31 Sgeo: are you okay with fucking a man with a cunt. 01:40:03 alise, if I could pretend e was a girl, probably. But that would be unfair to em 01:40:17 in conclusion, your sexual prospects with a transperson are pretty much nil. 01:40:27 Double-u tee ef guys. 01:40:29 Seriously. 01:40:32 Double-u tee ef. 01:40:44 don't you mean double-ewe? 01:40:55 As in having two ewes? 01:40:56 bsmntbombdood: Idonno, I have no idea how to spell 'U' 01:41:06 Gregor: what 01:41:11 we got bored of gay sex, we're just being more esoteric 01:41:22 did someone say gay sex? 01:41:24 Bored of gay sex? NONSENSE 01:41:26 yes. I did. 01:42:07 Sgeo: are you okay with fucking a man who has a female nick? 01:42:22 oklopol: X-D 01:42:42 alise: Are you okay with fucking a man while having a female nick? 01:42:52 pikhq: who's having the female nick? D: 01:43:02 * Sgeo is not ok with fucking anyone who's underage 01:43:05 augur: "you" 01:43:12 Sgeo: That's not the question. 01:43:14 oh ok. 01:43:14 pikhq: provide me with a vagina and certainly. my anus is a tender, holy thing, emitting light, pristine in its every aspect. also, I am 14 01:43:20 just had to maximise the awkwardness of that sentence 01:43:22 hello 01:43:34 alise: Emitting light? 01:43:35 i could probably have sex with a man with a female name, but nick i dunno 01:43:37 pikhq: emitting light. 01:43:38 Impressive. 01:43:38 alise: That was pretty maximally awkward ... 01:43:44 Gregor: thank you! 01:43:54 just checking that you werent using a weird dangling modifier 01:43:56 that'd be illegal cuz she's just 14 01:44:10 not in the vatican 01:44:19 Not in Japan. 01:44:21 although i think homosex is illegal there 01:44:22 what's the age of consent in norway? 01:44:47 alise: i'd be gentle 01:44:48 so so gentle 01:45:05 alise: I suspect having *sex* is illegal there. 01:45:17 I WANTED TO SHOW YOU SUCH... TENDERNESS 01:45:17 Given that the priests aren't supposed to have it, and everyone else would be having sex in public. 01:45:21 ...yeah cuz catholics don't have sex 01:45:35 bsmntbombdood: Catholic priests aren't supposed to. 01:45:36 unless theyre making babies. 01:45:36 pikhq: aren't there... houses 01:45:42 there is an age of consent anyway 01:45:48 the vatican is a whole city, isn't it? 01:45:55 bsmntbombdood: it's a very, very small city 01:45:55 bsmntbombdood: 16 01:46:04 0.44 km^2 01:46:05 bsmntbombdood: It's a few buildings in the middle of Rome. 01:46:07 pop 826 01:46:49 man 01:46:52 i want to move to norden 01:47:57 Wait, non-priests in the Vatican don't have homes? 01:47:58 me too 01:48:17 norway, sweden or denmark would be nice. 01:48:35 Sgeo: There are two types of Vatican citizens. 01:48:41 Clergy and the Swiss Guard. 01:49:30 The Swiss Guard do not reside in the Vatican. 01:49:57 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4e/Citta_del_Vaticano.svg 01:50:18 I bsmntborden 01:51:08 Also, the Swiss Guard are required to be single men. 01:51:27 * oklopol wants to have sex in the vatican 01:51:42 (if they cease this, they cease to be Swiss Guard, and thus cease to be Vatican citizens. If they have no other citizenship, they immediately become Italian citizens) 01:52:15 pikhq: I thought the Swiss Guard were, in fact, Swiss. 01:52:45 Gregor: Yes. 01:53:09 So how would they accomplish losing their Swiss citizenship while still being Swiss Guard at the Vatican? :P 01:53:10 Gregor: By being employed in that service, they become Vatican. 01:53:23 No dual Swiss-Vatican citizenship eh 01:53:33 it's one of my childhood dreams 01:53:35 No, that's the norm. 01:53:41 MY GF wants to move to norway 01:53:43 oklopol: kind of a lame dream 01:53:47 It's just there as a contingency. 01:53:52 Ah. 01:54:03 If a Vatican citizen ceases to be a citizen, and has no other citizenship, they are now Italian. 01:54:10 Man. Vatican as a nationality. 01:54:16 "I am a Vatican." 01:54:18 http://i.imgur.com/Akq2G.jpg 01:54:22 * bsmntbombdood wants to go to iceland 01:55:11 also i was out eating and there was this man talking to an imaginary woman, he'd actually ordered food for her and asked me where the female wc cuz she had to pee 01:55:38 (i didn't know he had an imaginary gf when he asked about the wc so i wasn't sure i should tell him :P) 01:55:58 yes, no, yes, yes, yes 01:56:02 yes, no, yes, no, no 01:57:10 so ive started smoking shisha 01:57:20 (cappuccino shisha, btw, is AWESOME) 01:57:21 i've started smoking HEROIN 01:57:30 ...up the arse. 01:57:42 and ive not gotten any interesting feelings from it. i dont see how people could get anything out of nicotine. 01:58:20 Illegal drugs and publically logged channels, two great tastes that taste great together! 01:59:04 i've wanted a shisha since i first visited germany 01:59:15 Sgeo: Hookahs, although stupid, are not illegal. And heroin isn't generally smoked (can it be smoked?), so that's clearly a lie :P 01:59:18 sgeo, shisha, you realize, is hookah tobacco, right? 01:59:29 Sgeo: You do realise that mentioning drugs on IRC isn't very dangerous? 01:59:31 Sgeo: Tobacco is entirely legal. 01:59:34 Maybe "I'm smuggling opium" 01:59:37 you're not supposed to get feelings from shisha, you're supposed to enjoy all the smoke! 01:59:40 But not "Hey guys, I'm on WEED" 01:59:44 "Or should I say... GANJA" 01:59:47 you can say anything you want in irc 01:59:48 and the taste 01:59:49 its not illega 01:59:56 admitting to doing something illegally on the internet is irrelevant. 02:00:13 oklopol: true, and its tasty 02:00:19 "The Life of Mammals: The greatest wildlife show on Earth" 02:00:20 BUT 02:00:23 its got nicotive 02:00:26 nicotine 02:00:30 so you should feel it 02:00:32 I wonder how much time they dedicate to humans :P' 02:00:42 Gregor: none. 02:01:11 Upside-domn typ hard 02:01:18 yeah but the shishas i did in germany (pretty much nonstop for a week, luuuuved 'em :P [total exaggeration but anyway]), at least, contained very little nicotine 02:01:30 prolly because you're supposed to smoke it all the time 02:01:53 shisha is pretty amazing 02:01:54 not once every few hours or so like the usual nicotine rolls 02:01:58 its horrible for you tho 02:02:08 if you smoke shisha like they do in turkey, for like 8 hours on and off 02:02:14 its equivalent to smoking about 200 cigarettes 02:02:17 :D 02:02:24 which is horrible 02:02:41 yeah but if it wasn't horrible for you, no one would do it 02:03:11 i mean it has to be at least a bit horrible to be fun 02:03:32 i beg to differ 02:03:36 LSD is pretty unhorrible for you 02:04:07 so's cock 02:04:29 cock especially 02:05:08 well if it has no bad effects, but it gives a high, of course it's fun again 02:05:08 but i mean you gotta have at least one 02:05:13 cock is nutritious if digested 02:05:31 * augur digests alise's cock 02:05:50 ... 02:05:56 o-kay 02:05:56 when i was in high school, two of my friends found a human cock in the woods, and one of them threw it on the other guy's face 02:05:56 Well that's not hot at all D-8 02:06:02 Gregor: you're clearly in denial 02:06:05 so, new competition 02:06:09 err 02:06:11 create a sentence /more awkward/ than that one 02:06:11 not high school 02:06:14 good luck 02:06:16 No digesting sexual organs! 02:06:27 the thing before that, whatever it's called 02:06:38 "upper elementary school" 02:09:09 Middle school and/or junior high 02:09:18 (At least, those are the names in the US) 02:10:46 I imagine penis would be spongy and not all that flavorful, probably not the best food as far as human meat goes. 02:10:57 yeah 02:11:15 んんん、人肉。 02:11:35 It could probably give flavor to soup stock though. 02:11:36 Human soup. 02:11:58 what if it was cut off while erected, with something like a string around it so the blood stays in 02:12:21 oklopol: Then it would be spongy, irony, and would probably burst when you bit into it. 02:12:26 Besides, we're humans, we usually /cook/ our food. 02:12:31 hmm, true 02:12:31 mm, blood-filled dick 02:12:33 So you'd just have the flavor of blood cooked into the spongy flesh. 02:12:38 oklopol: Sounds like the start of blood sausage. 02:12:47 +50 points pikhq 02:12:51 someone tried to convince me that erections were caused by muscles 02:13:16 no no it's _mussles_, surely 02:13:23 bsmntbombdood: Muscles in your heart push the blood, creating the initial blood pressure that eventually translates into an erection. 02:13:30 oerjan: All MY erections are caused by mussels. 02:13:32 Mmm. 02:13:32 *mussels 02:13:33 Mussels. 02:17:58 mussles turn you on? 02:19:48 http://www.naturalnews.com/005962.html 02:23:08 So, that being said, cock would probably taste mostly the same as the hens we usually eat, AFAIK there's not such a substantial difference between males and females of the species that they would actually /taste/ different. 02:24:39 Hm 02:24:48 That statement made me realize something. 02:24:51 Cocks don't have cocks. 02:24:53 Gregor: :) 02:24:56 Interesting thing, language. 02:25:26 do hens have hens? 02:26:06 yes. 02:26:09 Gregor: also yes. 02:26:30 ducks have cocks though, i hear 02:26:53 Ducks, swans and other closely-related species of bird. 02:27:18 think about that the next time you see Donald 02:27:52 very long cocks 02:28:16 And spiraled. 02:28:30 yummeh 02:29:52 did you know it's the devil that controls the world now, and not god, the jehovas told me this, i wasn't aware 02:30:25 also was that independent research, or is that their official opinion? i mean it sounds really silly 02:31:03 i should join some cool religion 02:31:18 i would totally own at that 02:31:22 you should FOUND a cool religion 02:32:37 that's an even yummier idea ofc 02:33:14 I have to go. 02:33:23 See you all on Friday... 02:33:31 see ya 02:33:34 good luck 02:33:40 maybe i could just worship john gabriel 02:33:47 And it's half term. So 90% of the day will be... sitting around. Sigh. 02:33:48 Oh well. 02:33:53 Bye. <3 you all. 02:34:03 you could always read about universal algebra 02:34:06 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:34:28 -!- alise has joined. 02:34:30 how 02:34:32 no personal internet 02:34:33 no libary 02:34:34 *library 02:34:58 oklopol: 02:35:09 alise: You could write a thesis on the stupidity of all this. 02:35:12 well you could borrow a book from an external library 02:35:20 oklopol: no, I couldn't 02:35:24 oh? 02:35:29 a parent could and bring it to me 02:35:32 but we're not allowed out... 02:35:46 well right, i was thinking you'd bring one with ya 02:35:52 it's tomorrow you know 02:35:53 anyway 02:35:53 cya 02:35:56 -!- alise has quit (Client Quit). 02:36:02 hmm, yeah i guess that's a good point 02:36:12 bye again 02:37:05 i was set to inherit? 02:37:43 oh 02:37:51 why am i not the successor anymore? :( 02:38:31 lament: what? 02:38:47 i thought i was the channel successor 02:39:25 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:40:14 but now it says freenode-staff 02:40:32 and i thought calamari was an op? 02:43:57 maybe ask some actual staff? 02:44:29 the only thing i can see is that andreou is founder 02:44:58 (and from nickserv, that he hasn't been here for 68 weeks) 02:45:05 er 02:45:21 38 02:45:28 38 02:45:31 Only 38 weeks? 02:46:03 if it had been much more, he'd probably have been removed in the recent purge... 02:46:29 (some time this autumn iirc) 02:47:00 or wait, do i actually remember when the purge was, it could have been the year before 02:49:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:50:47 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:51:18 there was a purge? 02:51:25 yes 02:51:42 lots of unused nicks removed 02:52:06 ha, i got an explanation from a staffer 02:52:16 all single-# channels have freenode-staff as the successor 02:52:34 oh? 02:52:52 this is new. also impractical... 02:53:28 after all, we really should have replaced andreou completely a long time ago 02:53:53 somehow i always thought calamari was an op 02:53:58 I don't think I've ever talked to him. 02:54:10 you and fizzie are, aren't you? 02:54:15 And I'm a bit of a long-time regular by now. 02:56:12 looks like to get staff involvement we'd have to move the channel to ##esoteric 02:56:27 probably better to just maintain status-quo 02:56:35 ... That's really dumb. 02:56:41 i can still op people 02:56:44 and stuff 02:56:53 i dunno what is it the channel founder is for 02:57:09 Particularly considering that this is the closest to the official Esoteric Programming group. 02:57:14 well 02:57:21 we could try that 02:57:37 We do also run the wiki and the archive... 03:00:19 all we need to do is incorporate somewhere 03:00:40 * Sgeo installs Flashblock 03:00:52 where is esolang hosted? 03:02:27 * Sgeo hasn't played Robozzle in a while 03:05:13 The never-shows-up graue hosts it. 03:05:46 All the important figures are no-shows :P 03:06:07 Incidentally, the esolang wiki should totally be hosted in Hackiki ;) 03:06:25 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:22:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Reboot). 03:26:40 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 03:27:02 -!- jcp has joined. 03:30:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 03:51:33 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 04:04:29 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:06:29 w00t at Canada winning a gold! 04:33:29 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 04:38:18 -!- MizardX has joined. 04:55:47 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:56:06 Today I invented a esolang that is possible to represent Russell's paradox: Russell={#![#]}\*; 05:00:49 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:09:28 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: This quit message will explode in 5 minute. Please have a good day, gentlemen.). 05:11:34 * oerjan doesn't get the knight tracks in today's xkcd. the rest is all very accurate and understable though. 05:12:24 oerjan: chess 05:12:40 d'oh 05:13:31 *understandable 05:13:42 although to be honest, may not be quite stable either 05:14:06 PEOPLE 05:14:07 PEOPLE 05:14:08 PEOPLE 05:14:10 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 05:14:14 RABBITS 05:14:24 rabbitboys are hot :( 05:24:14 * Sgeo got a l'spirit descalier regarding earlier conversation 05:24:55 l'esprit de'escalier 05:25:01 ... rabbitboys 05:26:42 Something about feeling sorry for female slaves named "nick" 05:30:11 OK, I think I need a liiiiiiiiiittle bit more explanation of "rabbitboys" :P 05:30:29 Gregor: Y'know catgirls? 05:30:39 s/cat/rabbit/ s/girl/boy/ 05:30:46 Why? 05:30:47 Hell if I know. 05:31:23 * oerjan has heard of something called playboy bunnies 05:31:39 oerjan: Not the same thing. 05:32:01 http://dagobah.biz/flash/lolicatgirls.swf ? 05:32:03 That's girls dressed up in a skimpy outfit with a bunny tail and ears. For no good reason. 05:32:27 People do weird things with animal parts and humanoids. 05:32:30 How did that site get past my FlashBlock? 05:33:57 well i've also heard of something called furries 05:34:30 i sort of thought playboy bunnies was related 05:34:51 No, playboy bunnies are just an artifact of marketing. 05:34:57 And furries are a somewhat odd fandom. 05:35:07 With associated sexual fetishes within the fandom. 05:35:12 OHWAIT 05:35:17 Are playgirl models bunnies too? 05:35:20 That would explain it. 05:35:25 And that I can rubber-stamp as OK :P 05:35:37 Gregor: I think it's just the models with the bunny outfit on. 05:35:44 Yeah, I know. 05:35:46 But that's my point 05:35:55 They're not fur-fetishists, they're just wearing bunny-ears. 05:36:02 And fuzzy tails. 05:36:09 Yeah. 05:36:14 * Sgeo should be getting ready to go to sleep 05:45:12 augur: I still need your first-person explanation. 05:45:25 Otherwise there's a nagging voice in my head. 05:45:43 hey what 05:46:32 rabbitboys are hot :( OK, I think I need a liiiiiiiiiittle bit more explanation of "rabbitboys" :P 05:46:45 oh 05:46:54 i know furboys who have rabbit fursonas 05:46:57 and theyre all hot 05:47:18 goddamn are you guys still talking about sex? 05:47:20 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 05:47:40 GODDAMNIT 05:47:45 Of course it had to be furries. 05:48:25 -!- jcp has joined. 05:48:33 Here I was, blissfully thinking it was just playgirl models in bunny suits. 05:48:35 But no. 05:49:56 how in gods name could rabbitboy meant girl in a bunny suit? 05:49:58 are you in drugs? 05:50:06 augur: playGIRL models. 05:50:14 PlayBOY models are girls, playGIRL models are boys. 05:50:18 HOW COULD RABBIT ___BOY___ MEAN THIS 05:50:39 The world of softcore porn is entirely foreign to augur :P 05:51:35 i hate playboy 05:51:40 really terrible porn 05:52:38 augur is at playgirl.com RIGHT NOW :P 05:53:34 Gregor: oh sorry, playgirl models 05:53:38 see im not paying attention to that 05:53:51 Clearly :P 05:56:22 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 06:12:37 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 06:12:57 Damn that almost! 06:23:23 yeah, i sure could go for some yiffing 06:26:48 *sobs* 07:04:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:25 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:20:46 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.). 08:50:42 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:01:43 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 09:02:45 -!- gm|lap has quit (Quit: 2 hour UPS expired. Shutting down laptop.). 09:04:40 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:04:40 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 09:23:23 Good middle-of-the-night/morning 09:25:30 dawn if you're lucky 09:34:17 Aroudn half past eleven (am) here. 09:37:56 great 09:48:51 -!- tombom has joined. 09:51:19 -!- scarf has joined. 09:52:09 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:52:39 -!- scarf has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:56:50 -!- Pthing has joined. 10:56:53 -!- scarf has joined. 11:17:41 -!- oklogon has joined. 11:20:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:23:44 -!- oklogon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:26:06 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:56:01 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 12:10:55 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:11:01 -!- SimonRC has joined. 12:38:07 -!- MizardX- has joined. 12:40:48 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:41:05 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 12:47:15 Good middle-of-the-night/morning <-- 10:22ish 12:47:25 at that point 12:49:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:09:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:40:32 -!- comex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 14:00:03 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:22:01 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:34:48 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 14:38:02 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:38:48 -!- sshc has joined. 14:49:19 -!- Pthing has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:54:50 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:02:51 -!- jcp has joined. 15:14:44 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:28:02 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:29:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:29:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host). 15:29:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 15:31:17 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 15:35:32 -!- Pthing has joined. 15:50:32 -!- tombom_ has joined. 15:52:32 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:12:47 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 16:31:05 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 16:32:10 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:36:52 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:40:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:25:13 -!- scarf has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:25:26 -!- scarf has joined. 17:28:13 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:30:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:31:56 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:12 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:35:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 17:45:12 -!- cheater2 has joined. 17:48:09 -!- cheater3 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:56:10 -!- cheater2 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:19 -!- cheater2 has joined. 18:15:51 Whoo, pretty frozen-north weather again; a tree: http://zem.fi/~fis/frozen.jpg 18:16:08 yay tree 18:37:15 fizzie, what scarf said + yay noise in image 18:37:37 it's rather visible in the blurry parts 18:39:03 It's still a phone, not a camera. 18:40:28 fizzie, ah okay 18:40:32 But yes, sure. It's also a bit artifacty sort of noise, probably due to some "noise-removal" image processing applied. 18:40:39 heh 18:40:48 Admittedly my camera does equally noisy images, so... But it's not a "real" camera, at that. 18:41:10 you will never get completely noise free 18:41:54 Guess so, but the sensors in a typical DSLR-style camera tend to be larger, which should mean significantly less noise. 18:42:11 true 18:42:12 -!- tombom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:42:18 fizzie, btw, you could use enfuse 18:42:51 Sure. I did some align_image_stack+enfuse for mini-tripod-out-of-hotel-room-window-at-night shots recently. 18:42:54 it did wonders for that panorama I fixed up for you if you remember 18:43:26 -!- tombom_ has joined. 18:44:39 http://zem.fi/~fis/noise_1.jpg → http://zem.fi/~fis/noise_2.jpg 18:45:12 fizzie, is that true colour? 18:45:56 fizzie, and yes that helped quite a bit. double the ammount of photos would have been even better (even in the latter the noise is quite noticeable) 18:46:58 -!- Asztal has joined. 18:47:25 fizzie, also it reduced the white headlight pattersn 18:47:28 patterns* 18:47:30 quite nice 18:47:49 some more and it would have looked rather deserted 18:49:11 fizzie, some manual whitebalance would have been a good idea though 18:49:28 or even curve correction if raw format wasn't available on that hardware 18:49:49 iirc hugin can somewhat adjust whitebalance too 18:52:31 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:56:52 It's not so far off from the correct colors; street lighting around here tends to be pretty yellowish. 18:57:25 Did white-balance with the "point the camera at something white" setting, using some snow as reference-white-outside. 18:57:45 Sorry for the delay there, there was a cat-puke-related issue to take care of. 18:59:24 http://zem.fi/~fis/noise_3.jpg → http://zem.fi/~fis/noise_4.jpg might be even more dramatic; that's inside the hotel room. 19:01:35 The first pair was made from 6 exposures, this second one with 9. 19:03:28 There's also a rather funny enfuse-generated phantom in http://zem.fi/~fis/ghost_bus.jpg 19:07:43 (Cleaning the hotel windows every now and then would have helped, too.) 19:19:45 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:42:58 -!- scarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:45:25 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 19:51:35 -!- tombom__ has joined. 19:51:45 -!- jcp has joined. 19:51:49 -!- tombom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:15:29 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:31:36 -!- jcp has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:40:09 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:55:00 -!- gm|lap has joined. 21:05:56 -!- augur_ has joined. 21:16:43 -!- scarf has joined. 21:38:10 fizzie, that image looks green though 21:38:27 Sorry for the delay there, there was a cat-puke-related issue to take care of. <-- ? 21:39:37 -!- oklopol has joined. 21:40:10 I'm guessing the "cat-puke-related" issue is actually the cat puke itself 21:40:26 fizzie, nice ghost bus yeah 21:40:45 olsner, oh! that sounds plausible 21:41:02 but I was wondering about the cake itself. Before the issue 21:41:37 cake and cat puke don't mix 21:42:37 fizzie, was it a two "floors" bus? 21:42:48 the picture doesn't make much sense 21:42:55 maybe another bus from another exposure? 21:43:03 Lost doesn't make much sense either 21:43:16 olsner, .... 21:44:07 fizzie, there is definitely a normal bus at the bottom. But part of it seems to have another bus located higher up on top as well? 21:44:14 well, I'm just taking whatever you say and rewriting it into something that kind of makes sense in my own context, then responding to it as if it means something else 21:44:40 or maybe that is a tram? 21:45:39 what I'm talking about is slightly more abstract than a tram, I think 21:45:59 it's buses all the way down. 21:46:11 yeah, that's plenty abstract 21:47:48 lament, hehe 21:57:17 are you talking about abstract vehicles 21:58:24 There's a tram "behind" the bus from another exposure, yes. 22:00:39 It's one of the yellow-green ones from http://www.raitio.org/ratikat/helsinki/hkl/luettelo/kalusto.htm 22:07:26 mhm 22:07:59 no, abstract meta-ghost commuter vehicles 22:08:03 oklopol, ^ 22:08:20 * AnMaster waits for the obvious pun 22:11:02 abelian grape! 22:13:28 LOL MissPiggy 22:13:42 i get it 22:13:45 MissPiggy: :o 22:14:07 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 22:34:54 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net). 22:40:29 MissPiggy, wrong one ;P 22:41:17 very well, I shall have to fill it in: 22:41:33 I never meta-ghost commuter vehicle I didn't like 22:51:10 -!- jcp has joined. 22:59:55 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:08:30 -!- tombom__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:19:18 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:22:54 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 23:26:24 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:26:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:30:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).