< 1267228813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure a limit just under what a computer can actually handle would be very annoying for those trying to do calculations _pushing_ what their computer can handle... < 1267228834 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact only 8 GB for a 32-bit system, because the limb size is 32 bits too. It's still larger than the directly addressable memory, anyhow. < 1267228858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, heck, even our new cluster nodes have 64 GB of physical memory. You can fit three, almost four GMP MAX_BIGNUMs in there. < 1267229358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267231039 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267231045 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267232122 0 :Wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267232250 0 :Wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-140-214.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267234187 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267236752 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1267241159 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.solidcolorneckties.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/30607/subcatid/73650/id/422493 Need < 1267241195 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it, immediately < 1267241261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know how to tie a bow-tie :P < 1267241271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix that. < 1267241304 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1267241633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't know which is better: The fact that solidcolorneckties.com exists, or the fact that they sell non-solid-color ties :P < 1267241744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it's solid as opposed to liquid, here < 1267241873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the white plasma neckties never really caught on < 1267241876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :food -> < 1267241946 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fish-bowl bow ties, eh? < 1267242030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have gas-color neckties. < 1267242038 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're clear, inflatable plastic. < 1267242077 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesomes < 1267242084 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something for a rave < 1267242090 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how the light would act... < 1267242690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no ... < 1267242694 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only have it in pre-tied :( < 1267242696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so much lame. < 1267242759 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a clip on < 1267242764 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clip-on? < 1267242839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so < 1267242926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it's worth it now :( < 1267243140 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...make your own? < 1267243203 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make my own ... bow-tie ... < 1267243242 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems plausible < 1267243246 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1267245099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1267245584 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267245589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME OF SPIDER-WEB IN DARK!! < 1267245912 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Caching isn't broken, it just doesn't know that your script uses randomness. < 1267245931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there a way to disable caching though, in the header output or something like that? < 1267245957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: See zzo38: http://hackiki.org/wiki/features.caching < 1267245961 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just so you know, I have made some kind of fix to the script. < 1267245964 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackiki.org/wiki/adventure_ideas < 1267245977 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select the [AGAIN] link for another random < 1267246049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is another way, such as by setting a cookie with the current timestamp and that would make the request not-identical? < 1267246053 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that work? < 1267246074 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just touch a file if you use randomness. < 1267246096 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, randomness isn't part of the design intent of caching, the best thing would be to run a non-cached Hackiki. < 1267246110 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so I would just use touch on the current file, then? < 1267246160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I write: touch('bin/'.$filename); < 1267246174 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nono, you have to actually make a change, e.g. date > /hackiki/nocache or something akin to that. Maybe I'll make a more elegant mechanism, but like I said, the best thing would be to run a non-cached Hackiki if you need random behavior. < 1267246181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try that to see if it helps a bit. But then it won't work if you are not logged in? < 1267246191 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point :) < 1267246230 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1267246300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if I could do "headers\nnocache\n\n" if you programmed Hackiki to support a function like that < 1267246304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, some mechanism for a script to indicate to Hackiki that it can't be cached would be useful. Not sure if there's sufficient use cases for it to me ... < 1267246493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, simply to make Hackiki complete, of course. < 1267246507 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267246518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki is supposed to be /simple/ :P < 1267246551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, simple, but it should be complete, too. (Will setting a cookie do it?) < 1267246611 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and feel free to edit my list of adventure ideas for Furryscript now that it is on Hackiki. < 1267246667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the cache description, does "same everything" include cookies? < 1267246700 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm setting it up as a header. < 1267246713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1267246714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't, the scripts can't (currently) read cookies. < 1267246723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, thanks < 1267246742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not true. They can read them with Javascript. < 1267246743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1267246747 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furryscript? < 1267246747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, if it included cookies then the cache would border on useless. < 1267247131 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: If a page sets the header X-Hackiki-Cached: No, then it won't cache. < 1267250056 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byeee < 1267250057 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267250344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given a magical HTTP server that can set the URL of the client anytime it wants, what would you do? < 1267250400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of AJAXiness < 1267250450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1267251397 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1267251567 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's strange when people say that they've disproved a theorem. < 1267251598 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they mean that they've proven a contradictory theorem, that they've proved the underlying theory inconsistent, or that they've found a flaw in the theorem? < 1267251613 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Speaking of inconsistency, my past participle of "prove".) < 1267251630 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just "disproved," you know. < 1267251633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any of the above. < 1267251671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also mean complete and utter bullshit. < 1267252107 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads about an alleged inconsistency in ZFC, and ponders why it's not really an inconsistency in ZFC.
< 1267252228 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much what I thought and/or remembered. < 1267252232 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skolem's paradox. < 1267252249 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are countable models of ZFC. Such models must contain uncountable sets. Contradiction? < 1267252267 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1267252272 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; an "uncountable set" in the model is really just a set where the enumeration is not in the model. < 1267252510 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I can set the header X-Hackiki-Cached < 1267252527 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have noticed that header when using netcat to connect to Hackiki. < 1267252588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hay, it works! Thanks < 1267252719 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And about disproving a theorem, well, there are many ways to do it. < 1267252843 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a proof that I am the pope! < 1267252872 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose 2 + 2 = 5. We already know that 2 + 2 = 4. This means that 5 = 4, meaning that 2 = 1. Now, the Pope and I are two, which means that the Pope and I are one. < 1267252875 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q.E.D. < 1267252917 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I have read in some book about criteria that odd perfect numbers must meet, if they exist. Immediately I thought, if you can find criteria which contradict each other (and the proof of that), then you can also know there are no odd perfect numbers. < 1267252947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Well, that doesn't prove you are the pope. Your logic says that if 2+2=5 then that makes you the pope. (Well, kind of.) < 1267252969 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just don't understand proof by contradiction. :P < 1267252983 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're perfect, there's no oddity < 1267253014 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your argument follows proof of contradiction structure, then you've just proved that 2+2≠4 < 1267253015 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing can be both odd and perfect same time < 1267253033 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. 2+2≠5 < 1267253038 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof by contradiction that 2 + 2 = 4: < 1267253050 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose 2 + 2 != 4. This contradicts the fact that 2 + 2 = 4. Therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. < 1267253076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: That's like self-reasoning, isn't it? < 1267253098 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I object, I'm using the integers modulo 3 and it only goes up to 2 < 1267253114 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly 2 + 2 = 1 < 1267253122 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree. 2 + 2 = 1. < 1267253130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, sorry. I guess that's reasonable. But you have to specify, because otherwise it is not assumed!! < 1267253135 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 is just an ugly way of writing 1. < 1267253166 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :四 < 1267253219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does turing's incompleteness theorem mean you're not allowed to use proofs by contradiction? < 1267253247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: As far as I know, it doesn't *always* disallow it, at least. < 1267253253 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing has an incompleteness theorem? < 1267253257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :godels < 1267253259 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1267253401 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, why would it mean that? < 1267253424 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A proof by contradiction doesn't say "if this were true, ZFC would be inconsistent". < 1267253437 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it to work! http://hackiki.org/wiki/adventure_ideas You can edit the script if you want, or edit the bin/Furryscript file to change the form, or so on. It is Hackiki and is experiment for everyone with OpenID to do with < 1267253476 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know, that spider-web in dark is a good way to stop the war? < 1267253571 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it just says not everything is provable, right? < 1267253598 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not familiar with goedel's theorem so much, btw) < 1267253603 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are two of the theorems. < 1267253616 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is right not everything can be provable < 1267253617 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are certainly provable things, in the rendering I'm familiar with < 1267253627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the first one says that any sufficiently powerful consistent theory has statements that are true but not provable. < 1267253644 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one says that if a sufficiently powerful theory has a proof of its own consistency, it is inconsistent. < 1267253675 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good summary < 1267253732 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I once saw some argument that went like this: < 1267253788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you add an axiom to TNT that proves its own consistency? < 1267253867 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider any theory's Goedel statement, which is "This theory has a disproof of its Goedel statement." Obviously, the Goedel statement is false for all theories. However, given a theory, it cannot disprove its own Goedel statement, whereas a human can tell it's false just by looking at it; therefore, humans can know things no mathematical theory can prove. < 1267253879 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a really, really dopey argument, because the Goedel statement is not false for all theories. < 1267253895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Even if "theory" means "theory capable of expressing arithmetic", as I glossed.) < 1267253902 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, what's TNT? < 1267253961 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT = Typographical Number Theory < 1267254017 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNT + "TNT is consistent" is almost certainly consistent. < 1267254035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I guess I thought so < 1267254036 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The theory X where X = TNT + "X is consistent" is not consistent, I think. < 1267254049 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1267254169 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cute theory is ZFC + "ZFC is inconsistent". < 1267254178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1267254192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes :D < 1267254259 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you say "OK" every time I include a string of the form "X is consistent" or "X is inconsistent". < 1267254294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. I am just confirming that I read it and don't have a disagreement of it < 1267254369 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cute response is OK + "OK is inconsistent". < 1267254370 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION coughs.
< 1267254372 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to add natural numbers represented as sets? < 1267254379 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To what? < 1267254381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK + "OK is inconsistent" < 1267254388 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, how cute! < 1267254432 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, if you have 0 is {} and 1 is {0} and 2 is {0,1} and so on, how do you figure out the set that is represent the sum of two natural numbers which are as sets, using only set operations (and not arithmetic operations)? < 1267254466 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1267254467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: whats your definition of successor there < 1267254479 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :successor={#|[#]}; < 1267254485 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because succ {} = {{}}, and succ {{}} = {{},{{}}} < 1267254487 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The successor of X is X union {X}, I'm sure. < 1267254503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the same thing I just wrote, but in words < 1267254529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so then if 0 = {}, then succ {} = {} u {{}} = {{}}, such {{}} = {{}} u {{{}}} = {{},{{}}}, etc. ok, i see. < 1267254546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1267254564 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im used to seeing it be succ x = {x,{x}} < 1267254570 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION straightens out his mind.
< 1267254588 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. X + Y is X union {X + y : y is in Y}, I think. < 1267254612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, let me think about that a bit < 1267254639 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think your definition is fine < 1267254654 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each number is the set of all numbers below it < 1267254666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yes, that's the usual way < 1267254673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is the way I am using < 1267254675 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a recursive definition, of course. < 1267254678 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1267254679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i just said :P < 1267254698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1267254703 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1267254848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how should a pair be represent as a set? < 1267254860 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y) = {{x},{x,y}} < 1267254901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, that seems to work. I can add it into the esolang wiki page [[Hyper Set Language]] < 1267254928 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I found some philosophy forums online. < 1267254931 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading them makes me ill. < 1267254992 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one post said that the philosopher is a minus sign or phallus seeking Sophia. < 1267255026 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The poster ought to have been banned on sight for saying anything so vacuous. < 1267255102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means that (0.0) is the same as ([1]) (in Hyper Set Language) [[0]] [[0];[0;0]]->[[0];[0]]->[[0]] < 1267255194 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(0,0) is the same as 1. < 1267255200 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (0,1) is the same as 2. < 1267255207 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there are no other noteworthy equivalences. < 1267255241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I think I made a mistake. Let me look again < 1267255247 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I am a bit tired < 1267255262 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. < 1267255265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me see again < 1267255302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I did or didn't make a mistake. Well, I will think of it tomorrow today I sleep < 1267255315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I understand you, though. < 1267255338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now figure out how to make a linked list. < 1267255341 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hint: it's really easy. < 1267255370 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can figure out, it is easy. < 1267255396 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like the right part of the pair is the next pair of the list, isn't it? < 1267255419 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1267255451 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have Cartesian products and tagged unions. With those, you can implement ADTs. With those, you can implement... a lot. < 1267255599 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, this way of representing a pair might also mean that (fork\I) is "the set of all single element sets of single element sets"? (If I haven't made a mistake, that is) < 1267255624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I can see, you can implement a lot. < 1267255664 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have implemented Russell's paradox, even. Now I want to see how many other paradoxes I can represent in Hyper Set Language, too. < 1267255779 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ZFC, there is no set of all single element sets of single element sets. < 1267255797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to think how to make the definition of sum you wrote, in Hyper Set Language. < 1267255800 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call that set S; it would have to have {{S}} as an element, which is not allowed. < 1267255855 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I understand. Of course, ZFC is not the only set theory < 1267255875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also another set theory I have read about on Wikipedia that allows the set of all sets < 1267255882 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like NF. < 1267255895 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see a type theory thingy based on NF. < 1267256043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, NF was the one I was thinking of. < 1267256203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Riichi. < 1267256636 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin < 1267257002 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-240-236.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267257030 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1267257070 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1267257215 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-2-18.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267257599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1267257600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1267257789 0 :krana!~krana@210.212.160.101 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267257824 0 :krana!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267258494 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popquiz < 1267258540 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: if you have a CFG and you have to rewrite all instances of a non-terminal simultaneously with the same rule, rather then in any order, does this change the power of the grammar? < 1267258733 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1267258835 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267259170 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-2-18.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267259848 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-192-244.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1267260484 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267261930 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1267262006 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267262360 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267262597 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-2-18.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267263063 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267264713 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267265307 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267265332 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267266485 0 :MigoMipo!~MigoMipo@84-217-2-18.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267267593 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHOLD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_grammar < 1267267770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, that term reminds me of "controlled substances" < 1267267785 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1267267787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains a lot about linguistics :P < 1267267805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controlled grammars are almost exclusively CS. < 1267267814 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just posted that article tho. < 1267267821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me like a week to write < 1267267852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers adding a "this article's introduction may be too technical" template at the top
< 1267267890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a lot of "citation needed" in various parts of it of course < 1267267950 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole thing is basically from the two cited links. < 1267267984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, aha! no _notable_ sources then! < 1267267993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or something) < 1267268004 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was incredibly hard to find information on any of these formalisms < 1267268044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, you realise that apart from "this article's introduction may be too technical", the other suggestions were a parody of wikipedia? < 1267268060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/other/ < 1267268069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\//\/\/ < 1267268072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaargh < 1267268078 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1267268084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/\\/\// < 1267268086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1267268088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that < 1267268089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1267268091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$/\\\/\// < 1267268092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1267268097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be correctr < 1267268101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct* < 1267268102 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we know how to get anmaster stuck in an infinite loop :D < 1267268110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, or I just do: < 1267268124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/other/s#$#/# < 1267268125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1267269727 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267272315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1267272315 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1267272517 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe27dc00-89.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1267272805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267272838 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1267273893 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267275019 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_grammar < 1267275020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1267277083 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1267277445 0 :scarf!~scarf@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267278317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares at Deewiant for causing unnecessary debugging by not clearly stating that mycouser after it reported it could read a char also informed that it read an additional char and threw it away (presumed to be a newline I guess)
< 1267278335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus making me think that my STRN in efunge was silently dropping a letter < 1267278347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spent about 10 minutes debugging that before I found out the cause < 1267278875 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1267279053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1267279056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi scarf btw < 1267279270 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, security update for sudo, you don't get those often < 1267279310 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local privilege escalation, as well < 1267279323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw it and updated < 1267279391 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it isn't exploitable with the default config, though < 1267279402 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267279433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, well, my config is close to default iirc < 1267279462 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the bug is that if you grant permission to arbitrary people to edit a particular file via sudoedit < 1267279474 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then arbitrary people can run an exectuable named sudoedit in any directory < 1267279492 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which they could have written themselves < 1267279513 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you aren't granting permission to sudoedit particular files, everything's fine < 1267279538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never used sudoedit < 1267279583 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it on occasion, but my /etc/sudoers doesn't grant me or anyone else any permission to use it beyond my typical permission to sudo anything < 1267279597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, oh btw I think it would be a good idea to formally prove su and sudo correct. Probably needs to be rewritten in some other language for that to be feasible < 1267279606 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, interesting < 1267279631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are quite security sensitive so... < 1267279635 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :su should be incredibly simple, shouldn't it? call out to PAM to verify auth, suid to whatever user that it < 1267279636 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is < 1267279641 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo is quite a bit more complex < 1267279648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, PAM would need to be verified < 1267279650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1267279654 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267279663 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think proving PAM correct is more interesting than proving su correct < 1267279680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267279695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that depends on the actual pam config in use too < 1267279728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could probably at least prove each module correct < 1267279747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the framework itself I guess < 1267279771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have doen that, proving any specific setup correct shouldn't be too hard < 1267279840 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1267279850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, for modules like ldap or nis auth or whatever, you would need to prove the tcp/ip stack, the network, and the remote server correct. Which is not really feasible < 1267280224 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1267280507 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Changing server < 1267280527 0 :MissPiggy!~none@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1267280535 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267280535 0 :MissPiggy!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1267280988 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, darcs 2.4 is out < 1267281224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a darc time for humankind < 1267281806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1267283792 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267283847 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267284037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1267284308 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1267284323 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1267287114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1267287780 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's alise? < 1267287793 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen him this weekend at all < 1267287793 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm worried < 1267287809 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1267287816 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1267287845 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like if alise came on < 1267288415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, same < 1267289310 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net < 1267289449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would using opaque values in SOCK break anything do you think? < 1267289453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for mycology or other apps < 1267289472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology prints them, at least < 1267289476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1267289517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it doesn't for the FILE handles iirc < 1267289695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it doesn't < 1267289698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, implementing SOCK in efunge would be nasty... erlang's abstraction of the sockets API of the OS makes it rather different than BSD sockets < 1267289700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1267289736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have to emulate the bsd style sockets on top of the erlang abstraction of the bsd-style sockets of the OS! < 1267289772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wonderful isn't it with fingerprints that assume something similar to C is being used ;) < 1267289829 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-232.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1267289878 0 :sebbu3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1267289895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, didn't you complain about that too some time ago? < 1267289913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have been about ncurses API using macros < 1267289927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really the fingerprint's fault, though < 1267289943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, it could have used another abstraction... < 1267289960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it specifically wanted to be a curses binding :-P < 1267290012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for example, I have no idea how to set SO_DEBUG in erlang. Not that I can find the man page documenting what SO_DEBUG actually means anyway... < 1267290031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aahhh seems to have found it < 1267290038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live full text search with man < 1267290044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 7 socket has it < 1267290054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enable socket debugging. Only allowed for processes with the CAP_NET_ADMIN capability or an effective user ID of 0." < 1267290057 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1267290065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would run a funge program as root heh < 1267290299 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love FerNANDo < 1267290388 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually on Linux that means having CAP_NET_ADMIN... < 1267290418 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that capability is enough to make total mess of networking, but.. < 1267290471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, true, but in my experience capabilities are rarely used < 1267290477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usually root or nothing < 1267290489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, the support is there but few use file caps or such < 1267290629 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, why did you quit? :( < 1267290636 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were having so much fun in IRP#IRP < 1267290642 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: before you could correct your mistake < 1267290658 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing is, I didn't even swap the mouse buttons just to confuse you < 1267290667 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please enable IRP interpretation capabiities in #esoteric. < 1267290667 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had them that way round for a while, because the left one is unreliable < 1267290680 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: nothing says I have to interpret IRP queries here! < 1267290697 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | You have to interpret IRP here. < 1267290700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please enable IRP interpretation capabiities in #esoteric. < 1267290710 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1267290714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267290717 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: you can't just cahnge the topic like that < 1267290719 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it doesn't work < 1267290724 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic isn't a binding contract < 1267290737 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nor would putting "this topic is a binding contract" in the topic work, not even against Agorans) < 1267290738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, so a server is only capable of sending text/plain, but can force the client to go to arbitrary URLs, including data: URLs. < 1267290738 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | The topic is now a binding contract. | You have to interpret IRP queries. < 1267290750 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoopies < 1267290754 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed your next message < 1267290761 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I love your reasoning there < 1267290769 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267290786 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267290793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a 1024 byte limit on URLs < 1267290837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone devised a way to have longer stuff work, by making a short data: based page essentially pull text from the server as though it were Javascript, and that Javascript displays the content from the server as HTML < 1267290838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it looks like I can't set all options for sockets. As in not all options have a mapping in the erlang API for sockets. Any opinions on the best workaround? Reflecting if those options are used? < 1267290847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in that system, is there any way to get forums working nicely? < 1267290848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | #esoteric == #irp < 1267290853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that work, scarf? < 1267290854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But do they matter? < 1267290859 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: err, no < 1267290869 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop messing with the topic < 1267290871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, this is reality in Second Life < 1267290872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, maybe you can't implement a certain option but is there a visible difference < 1267290874 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1267290882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kelly_Linden/lsl_hacks < 1267290884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, out of band data can't be received with that API then < 1267290886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFS with the topic < 1267290898 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: probably < 1267290913 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminds me of the whole concept of a client-side website < 1267290916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not that that bit matters in practise. SO_DEBUG can't be done either < 1267290918 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which works vaguely P2Pishly < 1267290923 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make an esolang about video tapes < 1267290927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, reuseaddr can be done, haven't yet checked the other ones < 1267290978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: For example SO_DEBUG, how can you do "socket debugging" through the SOCK API anyway? < 1267290989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, good point < 1267291002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So these kinds of options you can just ignore < 1267291007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway: so_reuseaddr, so_keepalive and so_broadcast seems supported < 1267291010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other ones: not < 1267291050 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ideas how could a magnetic medium (VHS tapes, audio cassettes...) -based esolang work < 1267291057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also tcp and udp sockets have quite different APIs in erlang. Ones that make more sense for them than a generic one. But that means I need multiple code paths in SOCK. One for tcp and one for udp < 1267291075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are even completely different erlang modules < 1267291097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dontroute exists too it seems < 1267291126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway SO_OOBINLINE *might* matter: "If this option is enabled, out-of-band data is directly placed into the receive data stream. Otherwise out-of-band data is only passed when the MSG_OOB flag is set during receiving." < 1267291245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you plan on setting MSG_OOB through the SOCK API? < 1267291252 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267291254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: I have no idea what out-of-band data is < 1267291256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, impossible afaik < 1267291268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that feature will be inaccessible < 1267291283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway the remote endpoint could send out of band data I guess < 1267291287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I have no clue what it is either < 1267291291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It basically means ignore out-of-band data if it's disabled < 1267291307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I can't get at out of band data with the erlang api it seems < 1267291308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1267291336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which indicates it is rarely used) < 1267291414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it seems related to the URG TCP (or possibly IP?) flag < 1267291419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For TCP, OOB data generally maps to the URG flag/pointer. < 1267291424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267291436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arr, I blame the slowish N900 keyboard. < 1267291448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not much used. < 1267291453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1267291502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telnet uses it for sending some things, I think. < 1267291507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1267291631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, you talked about ATHR in some future fungot_2. You do know that SOCK and FILE handles would not be inheritable between threads right? < 1267291632 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: quantum mechanic knows that lizard corpses protect against cockatrices. use a dagger." the hunt is up! even if we can only wish for a while, when i came here, i go to the sea; there's no food. < 1267291636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is the plan < 1267291647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for FILE it is already the case (since FILE is implemented) < 1267292084 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Explicitly disallowed or implementation-defined? < 1267292174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, explicitly undefined behaviour < 1267292202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means using a handle from another thread could map to nasal demons < 1267292299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye. < 1267292373 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a separate thread to handle handles < 1267292378 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the other threads call out to it < 1267292517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, well of course < 1267292544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also the spec allows that handle 1 in one thread might be different from handle 1 in another thread < 1267292548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in efunge this is the case < 1267292560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sock might have overlapping handles with file too < 1267292591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I wish it could be done as opaque socket objects < 1267292614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, it is currently more pain that it is worth. < 1267292661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually adding support for opaque objects wouldn't be too hard in efunge. A few things would have to be modified to reflect on them (one socket plus another? huh?) < 1267292715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be fairly straightforward though < 1267293039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick Javascript question: Is it possible to submit the data in a form to a server without actually changing the page? If so, how? < 1267293108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, don't know how < 1267293122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the source of things like GMail :-P < 1267293155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: We call it "AJAX". < 1267293192 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to do it without .. that XML function thingy? < 1267293192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1267293199 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ait that's not submitting a form is it? < 1267293200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, again don't know how < 1267293209 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can javascript POST as well as GET? < 1267293209 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only has XML in the name. < 1267293217 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has jack shit to do with actual XML. < 1267293229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was about to say that it has cross-browser issues, but I know the browser being used < 1267293246 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: I'm fairly sure it can < 1267293248 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think javascript can POST a form yes < 1267293252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I don't off the top of my head, but I can check < 1267293264 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there a way to do it without .. that XML function thingy? <-- You can use an iframe < 1267293267 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit ugly, but works < 1267293275 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise XHR would be the only way, AFAIK < 1267293285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XMLHttpRequest is supported by pretty much everything but IE 6. < 1267293296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Need to use the nearly-equivalent XMLHTTP for that) < 1267293331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, you can post with it. < 1267293375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no it isn't < 1267293386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, for example: lynx, links, w3m < 1267293394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik none of them supports XMLHttpRequest < 1267293406 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but you can only do a POST to your own server < 1267293407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: XD < 1267293408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elinks might, though. < 1267293411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what I'm using is essentially Gecko < 1267293413 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not possible to post to another server is it? < 1267293414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *maybe* < 1267293433 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you wanted to post to another server < 1267293455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's now a new tutorial on the 'Projects' menu for you to have a try at. This implements the popular CAPTCHA method of form validation, to prevent abuse by spambots and the like. Here we use Ajax to build CAPTCHA into the normal form validation, so the check can conveniently be done before form submission." < 1267293458 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms
< 1267293478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why? < 1267293481 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, I think POST via JS is quite impossible atm, dunno about HTML5 < 1267293497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, misunderstood what it was saying < 1267293508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy, can't you only GET to your own server as well iirc < 1267293511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms self for facepalming something that wasn't in fact insane
< 1267293515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using XMLHttpRequest that is < 1267293531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was part of the point of it. < 1267293536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same domain or something < 1267293631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: XMLHttpRequest allows it. < 1267293648 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, cross-site I meant* < 1267293649 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267293655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As does the spec. < 1267293809 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about iframes? < 1267293826 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine you could GET from a different server using an iframe < 1267293831 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about POSTing? < 1267293991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use JS to click on a button in the iframe? < 1267294026 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even load a page, edit it to include new fields and post ? < 1267294212 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1267294369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders where the e'est of the hirds is.
< 1267294416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that recent Freenode spam exactly about doing a POST request (that looked like a IRC connection start-up) via a bit of JavaScript embedded on a page. < 1267294490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't ever see the spam-links so I couldn't take a look at what they did exactly. < 1267294547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was. < 1267294561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wget'ted it and poked around. < 1267294565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty bit of work. < 1267294598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it XHR-driven? < 1267294605 0 :fxkr!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1267294609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so. < 1267294647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I do have an (unjustified) belief that simply building an invisible form with the usual DOM methods and submitting that could also work. < 1267294665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't ever see the spam-links so I couldn't take a look at what they did exactly. <-- I saw it. It was iframe based iirc < 1267294672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some javascript < 1267294730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it used a real form and submitted it < 1267294737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using javascript < 1267295160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of which, I also wonder how you could show an in-memory DOM document object (obtained from document.implementation.CreateDocument(...)) to the user. It's not like it has an URL (except a data: URL, of course), and I'm not sure if you can just assign to window.document. (Maybe you can.) < 1267295222 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1267296881 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1267299936 0 :daef!~david.zot@85-127-179-41.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1267299942 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there again < 1267300040 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: had no time to read the specs today - but we came a lot nearer to our goal with the videowall-hack :D < 1267300081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, what is that hack btw? < 1267300088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, I hope it is all legal too < 1267300097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise I don't want to hear about it < 1267300151 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing really illegal - we just want to display some of our content on a "public" videowall - just shows ad's all day long - nobody wants to see THAT.... < 1267300159 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we found where the signal comes from < 1267300203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no this sounds bad < 1267300215 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds fun xD < 1267300220 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do no harm < 1267300224 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we destroy nothing < 1267300232 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it files under "okay" < 1267300284 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1267300303 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best way to understand belonge-app's that go further than hello world? < 1267300321 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen the game of life implementation on the german wikipedia < 1267300330 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks really bad :) < 1267301302 0 :MigoMipo!~54d90212@gateway/web/freenode/x-ntgeccorahmpumrf JOIN :#esoteric < 1267302020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, "belonge"? < 1267302024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you mean befunge? < 1267302034 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sry - braindead < 1267302044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, and the GOL in befunge, well I haven't traced it myself < 1267302048 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/belonge/befunge/g < 1267302049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you would try to trace it < 1267302066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is the famouse 93 one it shouldn't be completely impossible < 1267302076 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do i get a nice visualising interpreter`? < 1267302078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course befunge-93 tends to be as compact as possible < 1267302083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the limited space they had < 1267302089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wich was 25x80 < 1267302095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err make that 80x25 of course < 1267302099 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already read that < 1267302124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, befunge-98 programs have 2^32*2^32 at least, and thus tend to be a lot less compact :) < 1267302129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for visual interpreters, no idea < 1267302133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mooz had a very nice "syntax-highlighted" bit of Befunge(-93, mostly); coloured blocks with comments for each colour. < 1267302134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be possible to write that < 1267302146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately I don't think that thing is in the web any more. < 1267302150 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a interpreter shouldn't be that hard < 1267302156 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for 93) < 1267302157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, befunge93? trivial < 1267302161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge-98 is hard < 1267302162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1267302170 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 2dimensional IP, a stack - ready < 1267302172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the trace output from an existing interpreter with that feature < 1267302184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, and various commands operating on those < 1267302188 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1267302189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1267302189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an equally nice Turing machine interpreter syntax-highlightation in Befunge-mostly-93, but I stupidly lost that; both the code and the comments. < 1267302200 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1267302219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's the start for commented fungot code, but that's probably not a good example, and it's incomplete anyway. < 1267302220 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the longer the wand the better. < 1267302238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge can produce output like: < 1267302240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=26 y=15: > (62) < 1267302241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=27 y=15: : (58) < 1267302241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=28 y=15: # (35) < 1267302276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be possible to use the coordinates to draw a trace < 1267302292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there are many -93 interpreters that can show the playfield and stack, and single-step through code. < 1267302299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1267302304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not draw nice traces on it < 1267302326 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they can single-step you can get a trace easily < 1267302347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tix and tid are related to t of course, but drawing a trace in a program that uses t is probably too confusing to be useful anyway!) < 1267302367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then single stepping and watching it might be more useful < 1267302381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about that glfunge? ;P < 1267302382 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t was which one? < 1267302384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I started my Befunge career with zbefunge, which has that sort of thing, but in general I don't think it's a very good interpreter. < 1267302392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shamefully dead. < 1267302393 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef: Fork another IP < 1267302398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, lock-step threads < 1267302406 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk - 93 already had that? < 1267302408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rounds on a round-robin schedule < 1267302408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1267302410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, no < 1267302412 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1267302417 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the GOL is 93 < 1267302437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daef, it is 93 that also works just fine in a 98 interpreter < 1267302469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modulo minor inconsistencies < 1267302492 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1267302513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the life one? no? < 1267302518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs perfect iirc < 1267302536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it runs so fast so you can't really follow it in cfunge < 1267302541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, we were talking about a specific program; my bad < 1267302548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yep < 1267302577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in ccbi I get about 10 FPS or so < 1267302582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cfunge it is just a blur < 1267302588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you count those FPS :-P < 1267302596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, updates of screen per second < 1267302611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is the definition of FPS < 1267302618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you count it, with a stopwatch? < 1267302647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sleep && kill on the same line as starting ccbi < 1267302660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then counting how many it drew < 1267302669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1267302673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, counting it under my breath give roughly the same result < 1267302682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indicating it was a reasonable approx < 1267302687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many FPS for cfunge, then? < 1267302688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ccbi is that snow < 1267302696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know CCBI 1 is slow < 1267302699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not snow, though < 1267302701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, haven't yet tested the sleep and kill method on it < 1267302751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wtf, cfunge ignored that signal < 1267302751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I "benchmarked" with "game of life for K seconds, output redirected to file, measure size of generated output files". < 1267302755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not supposed to happen < 1267302774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you killing it with, SIGXCPU? :-P < 1267302774 0 :daef!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so - starting a movie < 1267302779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, SIGINT < 1267302783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ctrl-c works < 1267302787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means this makes no sense < 1267302805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what is SIGXCPU now again? < 1267302814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eXceeded CPU < 1267302816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time) < 1267302837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: eXtreme CPU. < 1267302851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that; sorry, my mistake. < 1267302856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For eXtreme programs. < 1267302865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written using eXtreme Programming techniques., < 1267302866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eXtreme Funge-98 < 1267302901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XFunge is not a bad name, though people might expect an X Window System GUI in it. < 1267302961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had "XCPU" as the error message that AI tournament system bot-runner returns when the computing time given for a player is exceeded; quite logical, since it gets a SIGXCPU signal. < 1267302986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually, ccbi seems slower now... 59 frames for 10 seconds. < 1267303001 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, "XFunge"? there's a funge with an X gui? < 1267303010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it was due to a trivial typo in the command < 1267303021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I don't implement that fingerprint < 1267303045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and 758 frames from cfunge for the same time < 1267303067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is grepping for those ..................... lines GOL uses to separate the drawings with < 1267303071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then doing wc -l < 1267303083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I use grep -F) < 1267303099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use fgrep but that's just me < 1267303102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :92K ccbi.out < 1267303102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,2M cfunge.out < 1267303124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, last I looked fgrep on linux systems were either a symlink or a two-line wrapper script for grep < 1267303142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#!/bin/sh\ngrep -F "$@") < 1267303148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec grep ... even < 1267303172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/fgrep: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped < 1267303175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not a symlink < 1267303181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually using du -bsh would be more fair: < 1267303183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90K ccbi.out < 1267303183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,2M cfunge.out < 1267303191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ccbi managed even less ;P < 1267303201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, take off the -h and watch them both change :-P < 1267303213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91959 ccbi.out < 1267303213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1163264 cfunge.out < 1267303214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1267303228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but without -b it will be rounded to whole blocks on disk < 1267303231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1267303263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, let me re-run it with -b to cfunge < 1267303263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267303275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm strange < 1267303276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1267303288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redirecting to file already made it fully buffered < 1267303293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course -b won't help then < 1267303347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well 769 frames with -b. but 758 vs. 769 from a single run of each isn't statistical significiant) < 1267303366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially as the cpu is running on dynamic speed and it's a dual core system and what not) < 1267303368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU grep has a separate fgrep executable, though it's compiled from a two-line .c file: < 1267303369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define FGREP_PROGRAM < 1267303369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "grep.c" < 1267303377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1267303381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're hoping for better optimizations there. < 1267303390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, XD < 1267303428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could benchmark (with a large enough file to get a reasonable "asymptotic" speed) "fgrep" and "grep -F" to see if it made a difference. < 1267303443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I don't have jitfunge handy so can't test it < 1267303444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :against there < 1267303447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these* < 1267303456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I hope it won't be as dead as gl-funge! < 1267303492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it already was :-P < 1267303528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1267303532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite as dead; I actually got it a lot cleaner architecturally some time ago -- it's a lot easier to port now, for example -- but it's also broken at the moment; doesn't even run life correctly. < 1267303569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, SIGINT won't work for efunge, that will give me a "continue/start shell/start debugger/some/more/options/I/forgot" prompt < 1267303692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, efunge produces output faster it seems when watching it, but it has a longer load time < 1267303728 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267303731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get about 54 frames in 10 seconds from it < 1267303735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just below ccbi < 1267303749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets try longer intervals < 1267303814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it, seems related to using -KILL instead of -INT < 1267303821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning it couldn't flush the buffer before exiting < 1267303842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get 98 (efunge) vs. 103 (ccbi) for 20 seconds < 1267303858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RestrainedLife is no more. Long Live RestrainedLove! < 1267303859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also erlang seems to always use unbuffered for stdout or something < 1267303944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1565 from cfunge for 20 seconds < 1267303946 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC/Funge-98 appears to get a decent in-between result < 1267303969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I can try it in a bit. It is hard to compare different cpus < 1267303973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No idea if I've compiled it with optimizations or anything though... < 1267303986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I assume your ccbi binary is compiled with full optimisations? < 1267303993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used your official binary you see < 1267303995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course I ran them all myself < 1267304001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cfunge with full optimisation < 1267304009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and efunge with hipe at o3 < 1267304011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full optimizations but it is upx-compressed which gives it a constant slowdown at start < 1267304023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fine, but it still beats erlang runtime < 1267304135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you might get a frame or two more if you feel like un-UPXing it, but nothing significant < 1267304145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't have upx installed < 1267304157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy enough to install if you feel that much like it < 1267304173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, isn't it different algorithm in closed and open versions? < 1267304195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue? I just use arch linux's package of it < 1267304196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which you used but I know which this distro would ship (open only) < 1267304203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, on ubuntu laptop atm < 1267304211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my arch linux desktop is much slower < 1267304214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't really matter, either it can decompress it or not :-P < 1267304242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sempron 3300+ at 2 GHz vs. core 2 duo at 2.66GHz < 1267304244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no match < 1267304270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, did you build your cfunge optimised and with 32-bit cells? < 1267304282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue < 1267304338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now running it again for cfunge with better optimised build < 1267304345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inexact bounds) < 1267304352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no t support < 1267304370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, a noncompliant build ;-) < 1267304381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, with that build I now get 2097 frames from cfunge for 20 seconds < 1267304391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is more than 100 FPS! < 1267304413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fine, rebuilding with exact bounds < 1267304423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now implement the same algorithm for Conway's game of life in C and smile at your 10000 FPS ;-) < 1267304433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, har < 1267304444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, now just use hashlife < 1267304450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and watch it grow way way higher < 1267304451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1267304475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, with no t support but with exact bounds I get 1934 frames for 20 seconds < 1267304485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, pretty big difference < 1267304492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, it p's all over the place < 1267304518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, (t,exact):1565 (-t,exact):1934 (-t,-exact):2097 < 1267304621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still it looks like not having to have the logic to switch ip and what not matters about 2.3 times as much < 1267304631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... as exact bounds < 1267304640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite < 1267304692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what cpressy would say on the exact bounds issue < 1267304704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I somehow doubt that fbbi would pass mycoedge+fixed < 1267304714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1267304724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does efunge? < 1267304730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course it does. < 1267304749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so then I know of three interpreters that do :-P < 1267304761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the one lifthrasiir (?) wrote passed too iirc < 1267304772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which one? < 1267304778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, forgot it's name < 1267304778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pyfunge? < 1267304782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1267304793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it doesn't implement that... but maybe I'm wrong < 1267304797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't tested them properly after all < 1267304812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, of course the exact bounds is somewhat... fudged... in the case of multiple ATHR threads < 1267304840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it it is however guaranteed to have been the exact bounds *at some point* during execution, probably a recent point at that. < 1267304849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1267304850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be no less than that the current thread wrote < 1267304858 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1267304866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always return (0,0) - (0,0): "sure it was valid before the program was loaded" < 1267304868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just that updates from *other* threads might take some time to reach < 1267304872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, har < 1267304880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I need this for wraparound too < 1267304885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was one hard problem to solve at that < 1267304901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you do it majorly differently from cfunge, then? < 1267304911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes of course it was < 1267304933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, plus it differs in trunk and supervisor-tree branches quite widely < 1267304947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, they're selling our apartment. (Or, to be more exact, another apartment in the same group-of-buildings, with exactly identical size and layout.) < 1267304959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who are "they"? < 1267304962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words, they're not selling your argument. < 1267304966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1267304967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor apartment. < 1267304972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1267304973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How'd I manage that, one wonders. < 1267304975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably whoever lives here. < 1267304979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there. < 1267304981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Gah.) < 1267304984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nor augment < 1267305002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : somehow I read "argument" as "augment" first < 1267305012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great success by all parties involved < 1267305023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which made me even more confused when I found it was "argument" < 1267305039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1267305426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was one conversation-killing exchange. < 1267306307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I have discovered an issue with Esotope-BFC. < 1267306319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't handle wrapping correctly. < 1267306682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wrapping? < 1267306691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as in 255 -> 0? < 1267306709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, then rest assured that I'm 99% sure in-between does :P < 1267306759 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.63.42.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267306766 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1267306808 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1267306910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Link to in-between? < 1267306944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, site is probably down. Due to no longer having that server < 1267306946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or domain < 1267306952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could push it to launchpad < 1267306958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in a bit) < 1267306961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a bit busy now) < 1267306966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1267307230 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been trying to take a 3d anaglyph. Anyone have experience making them? Here's my first try http://patchworkpixels.co.uk/3d_soft_toys.htm < 1267307252 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anaglyph? < 1267307335 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work impomatic < 1267307370 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wondrs how much geek-cred I get for having 3 different 3D glasses next to me at all times..
< 1267307379 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MissPiggy: What doesn't work, the link or the anaglyph? < 1267307384 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look 3D < 1267307449 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know what the problem is. There wasn't much depth to the scene and I used the flash. < 1267307474 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think flash should be any problem < 1267307505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* MissPiggy wondrs how much geek-cred I get for having 3 different 3D glasses next to me at all times.. <-- 0.12 nethack accessions only < 1267307508 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took the shots at 65mm apart (same as my eyes). I'll make it further next time. The flash is a problem because the shadow is in two different places. < 1267307518 0 :MissPiggy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1267307522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D shadows! < 1267307575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, use a tripod and some bg light. < 1267307581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, and no flash < 1267307601 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1267307611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, also what software did you use for it? < 1267307622 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thanks I'll try that. I used Gimp < 1267307627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, huh < 1267307644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, oh and create a panorama with hugin while you are at it < 1267307657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a panorama head to avoid parallax of course < 1267307668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I wish I had such a head for my tripod) < 1267307677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I only have a ball head :/) < 1267307717 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a panorama head? < 1267307721 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... what's a panorama head? I assume it slides from side to side? < 1267307758 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a mini tripod with positions marked out on the table. < 1267307800 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I converged the shots slightly to at a point on the wall. Maybe they shouldn't converged on the foreground? < 1267307837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This section uses PNG images heavily. Typically, most browsers that cannot display PNG images are often old enough to have more than adequate built-in Gopher support and do not require Overbite software. For more details, please see the information on the Floodgap Public Gopher Proxy." < 1267307838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1267307845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from http://gopher.floodgap.com/overbite/) < 1267307856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, gopher. < 1267307863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the text was funny though < 1267307869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the proper version is at gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/overbite/ < 1267307884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "heavily" = 3 images < 1267307886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1267307895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 4 < 1267307895 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should show that to zzo38 < 1267307898 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless he knows it already < 1267307909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scarf, I assume he knows overbite < 1267307916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is unlikely he will use it < 1267307916 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1267307929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seems to recall zzo38 being responsible for Gopher still being in Gecko for some reason. :P
< 1267307929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he use his own browser doesn't it? Based on xulrunner < 1267307938 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait, what? < 1267307941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1267307945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I commented upon that bug too < 1267307950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1267307956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1267307970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I know is that I'm looking at a Gopher page in modern Gecko. < 1267308007 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I < 1267308034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use lynx though < 1267308040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is better for gopher < 1267308049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in general) < 1267308065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overbite probably helps firefox become as good < 1267308110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's poor about it? < 1267308127 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A panorama head is just a tunable metallic construction that makes it possible for you to position a camera on a tripod so that when you rotate it, it turns around the no-parallax point of the lens, therefore making it a lot easier to stitch images together. (I don't see the question answered anywhere.) < 1267308158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did someone ask it? < 1267308166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I missed the question < 1267308169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, ^ < 1267308171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1267308276 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267308278 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I'll take a look on eBay < 1267308358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, well, that is for panoramas only < 1267308363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, not needed for 3D images at all < 1267308367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1267308382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, plus it needs to fit your tripod of course < 1267308395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if the mounting is standard or not < 1267308457 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has some decent Anaglyphs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image < 1267308476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, I don't have 3D glasses :( < 1267308865 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267309377 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-114.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1267309423 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1267309424 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1267310199 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1267310521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:20:48 s/belonge/befunge/g < 1267310554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear the name befunge started as a similar typo. although i don't know what it was a typo of. < 1267310574 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"before", apparently < 1267310620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that typo makes no sense on qwerty, at least... < 1267310652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of like how some people can typo "argument" for "apartment" < 1267310662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1267310692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so closer to the chair, then < 1267310711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably < 1267310765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit i've got into this habit of chewing my tongue :( < 1267310844 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267311092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms says tongue means "an enemy prisoner captured for interrogation"; strange thing to chew. < 1267311134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1267311165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, 'chew' is listed as "to practice fellatio", so... < 1267311241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prisoner better hope the interrogators are not using that dictionary < 1267311242 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chewed a pack of paperclips :( < 1267311252 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I've run out < 1267311258 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!? < 1267311276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paperclip candy? < 1267311294 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project Paperclip < 1267311299 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also chewed up a few of the PCI slot guards from my PC case... < 1267311314 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: are you a bot? < 1267311319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Have you polymorphed to a xorn, perhaps? < 1267311387 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can understand "I chewed a paperclip" perhaps by accident, but "I accidentally chewed an entire box of paperclips" doesn't compute < 1267311407 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by accident < 1267311412 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just very more-ish :) < 1267311481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You're a bot; would you eat paperclips? < 1267311482 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they say that gremlins can make a bomb from the tombs, and therefore well suited for its electrical organ which enables it to be amazingly sturdy. he excelled them even in lithe economy of motion. they are quite difficult to kill. < 1267311670 0 :cal!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267311672 0 :cal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1267311704 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267311928 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1267312080 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1267312081 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1267312149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like the nethack style. It's not very good at making sense, but it's occasionally funny. < 1267312164 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"daedalus built the labyrinth, famous throughout the world a grid bug was, you need a key in order to open it; it was never supposed to seek nourishment, or one grown from a cutting, not in mordor only." < 1267312589 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920] < 1267313755 0 :scarf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267314871 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1267315012 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1267315159 0 :gm|lap!~gm@121-73-172-230.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1267315160 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1267315160 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric