00:00:13 i'm sure a limit just under what a computer can actually handle would be very annoying for those trying to do calculations _pushing_ what their computer can handle... 00:00:34 And in fact only 8 GB for a 32-bit system, because the limb size is 32 bits too. It's still larger than the directly addressable memory, anyhow. 00:00:58 But, heck, even our new cluster nodes have 64 GB of physical memory. You can fit three, almost four GMP MAX_BIGNUMs in there. 00:09:18 -!- cpressey has left (?). 00:37:19 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:37:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:55:22 -!- Wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:57:30 -!- Wareya has joined. 01:29:47 -!- Asztal has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:12:32 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:25:59 http://www.solidcolorneckties.com/index.cfm/fa/items.main/parentcat/30607/subcatid/73650/id/422493 Need 03:26:35 get it, immediately 03:27:41 I don't actually know how to tie a bow-tie :P 03:27:51 Fix that. 03:28:24 yes! 03:33:53 Also, I don't know which is better: The fact that solidcolorneckties.com exists, or the fact that they sell non-solid-color ties :P 03:35:44 clearly it's solid as opposed to liquid, here 03:37:53 the white plasma neckties never really caught on 03:37:56 food -> 03:39:06 fish-bowl bow ties, eh? 03:40:30 I have gas-color neckties. 03:40:38 They're clear, inflatable plastic. 03:41:17 awesomes 03:41:24 sounds like something for a rave 03:41:30 I wonder how the light would act... 03:51:30 Oh no ... 03:51:34 They only have it in pre-tied :( 03:51:36 That's so much lame. 03:52:39 like a clip on 03:52:44 clip-on? 03:53:59 I assume so 03:55:26 I'm not sure if it's worth it now :( 03:59:00 ...make your own? 04:00:03 Make my own ... bow-tie ... 04:00:42 seems plausible 04:00:46 why not? 04:31:39 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 04:39:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:39:49 GAME OF SPIDER-WEB IN DARK!! 04:45:12 zzo38: Caching isn't broken, it just doesn't know that your script uses randomness. 04:45:31 Gregor: Is there a way to disable caching though, in the header output or something like that? 04:45:57 zzo38: See zzo38: http://hackiki.org/wiki/features.caching 04:46:01 Just so you know, I have made some kind of fix to the script. 04:46:04 http://hackiki.org/wiki/adventure_ideas 04:46:17 Select the [AGAIN] link for another random 04:47:29 I wonder if there is another way, such as by setting a cookie with the current timestamp and that would make the request not-identical? 04:47:33 Would that work? 04:47:54 Just touch a file if you use randomness. 04:48:16 Really, randomness isn't part of the design intent of caching, the best thing would be to run a non-cached Hackiki. 04:48:30 O, so I would just use touch on the current file, then? 04:49:20 Should I write: touch('bin/'.$filename); 04:49:34 Nono, you have to actually make a change, e.g. date > /hackiki/nocache or something akin to that. Maybe I'll make a more elegant mechanism, but like I said, the best thing would be to run a non-cached Hackiki if you need random behavior. 04:49:41 I will try that to see if it helps a bit. But then it won't work if you are not logged in? 04:49:51 Good point :) 04:50:30 -!- madbr has joined. 04:51:40 Like, if I could do "headers\nnocache\n\n" if you programmed Hackiki to support a function like that 04:51:44 Yeah, some mechanism for a script to indicate to Hackiki that it can't be cached would be useful. Not sure if there's sufficient use cases for it to me ... 04:54:53 Well, simply to make Hackiki complete, of course. 04:55:07 :P 04:55:18 Hackiki is supposed to be /simple/ :P 04:55:51 Yes, simple, but it should be complete, too. (Will setting a cookie do it?) 04:56:51 O, and feel free to edit my list of adventure ideas for Furryscript now that it is on Hackiki. 04:57:47 I read the cache description, does "same everything" include cookies? 04:58:20 I'm setting it up as a header. 04:58:33 OK 04:58:34 No, it doesn't, the scripts can't (currently) read cookies. 04:58:43 OK, thanks 04:59:02 Gregor: Not true. They can read them with Javascript. 04:59:03 ;) 04:59:07 furryscript? 04:59:07 Besides, if it included cookies then the cache would border on useless. 05:05:31 zzo38: If a page sets the header X-Hackiki-Cached: No, then it won't cache. 05:54:16 byeee 05:54:17 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 05:59:04 Given a magical HTTP server that can set the URL of the client anytime it wants, what would you do? 06:00:00 In terms of AJAXiness 06:00:50 n/m 06:16:37 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:19:27 It's strange when people say that they've disproved a theorem. 06:19:58 Do they mean that they've proven a contradictory theorem, that they've proved the underlying theory inconsistent, or that they've found a flaw in the theorem? 06:20:13 (Speaking of inconsistency, my past participle of "prove".) 06:20:30 they just "disproved," you know. 06:20:33 Any of the above. 06:21:11 It can also mean complete and utter bullshit. 06:28:27 * uorygl reads about an alleged inconsistency in ZFC, and ponders why it's not really an inconsistency in ZFC. 06:30:28 It's pretty much what I thought and/or remembered. 06:30:32 Skolem's paradox. 06:30:49 There are countable models of ZFC. Such models must contain uncountable sets. Contradiction? 06:31:07 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 06:31:12 No; an "uncountable set" in the model is really just a set where the enumeration is not in the model. 06:35:10 OK. I can set the header X-Hackiki-Cached 06:35:27 I have noticed that header when using netcat to connect to Hackiki. 06:36:28 Hay, it works! Thanks 06:38:39 And about disproving a theorem, well, there are many ways to do it. 06:40:43 I have a proof that I am the pope! 06:41:12 Suppose 2 + 2 = 5. We already know that 2 + 2 = 4. This means that 5 = 4, meaning that 2 = 1. Now, the Pope and I are two, which means that the Pope and I are one. 06:41:15 Q.E.D. 06:41:57 For example, I have read in some book about criteria that odd perfect numbers must meet, if they exist. Immediately I thought, if you can find criteria which contradict each other (and the proof of that), then you can also know there are no odd perfect numbers. 06:42:27 uorygl: Well, that doesn't prove you are the pope. Your logic says that if 2+2=5 then that makes you the pope. (Well, kind of.) 06:42:49 You just don't understand proof by contradiction. :P 06:43:03 if you're perfect, there's no oddity 06:43:34 if your argument follows proof of contradiction structure, then you've just proved that 2+2≠4 06:43:35 so nothing can be both odd and perfect same time 06:43:53 er. 2+2≠5 06:43:58 Proof by contradiction that 2 + 2 = 4: 06:44:10 Suppose 2 + 2 != 4. This contradicts the fact that 2 + 2 = 4. Therefore, 2 + 2 = 4. 06:44:36 uorygl: That's like self-reasoning, isn't it? 06:44:58 I object, I'm using the integers modulo 3 and it only goes up to 2 06:45:14 clearly 2 + 2 = 1 06:45:22 I agree. 2 + 2 = 1. 06:45:30 OK, sorry. I guess that's reasonable. But you have to specify, because otherwise it is not assumed!! 06:45:35 4 is just an ugly way of writing 1. 06:46:06 四 06:46:59 does turing's incompleteness theorem mean you're not allowed to use proofs by contradiction? 06:47:27 lament: As far as I know, it doesn't *always* disallow it, at least. 06:47:33 Turing has an incompleteness theorem? 06:47:37 godels 06:47:39 same thing 06:50:01 Well, why would it mean that? 06:50:24 A proof by contradiction doesn't say "if this were true, ZFC would be inconsistent". 06:50:37 I got it to work! http://hackiki.org/wiki/adventure_ideas You can edit the script if you want, or edit the bin/Furryscript file to change the form, or so on. It is Hackiki and is experiment for everyone with OpenID to do with 06:51:16 Did you know, that spider-web in dark is a good way to stop the war? 06:52:51 lament: it just says not everything is provable, right? 06:53:18 (I am not familiar with goedel's theorem so much, btw) 06:53:23 Well, there are two of the theorems. 06:53:36 Yes it is right not everything can be provable 06:53:37 there are certainly provable things, in the rendering I'm familiar with 06:53:47 I think the first one says that any sufficiently powerful consistent theory has statements that are true but not provable. 06:54:04 The second one says that if a sufficiently powerful theory has a proof of its own consistency, it is inconsistent. 06:54:35 good summary 06:55:32 You know, I once saw some argument that went like this: 06:56:28 Can you add an axiom to TNT that proves its own consistency? 06:57:47 Consider any theory's Goedel statement, which is "This theory has a disproof of its Goedel statement." Obviously, the Goedel statement is false for all theories. However, given a theory, it cannot disprove its own Goedel statement, whereas a human can tell it's false just by looking at it; therefore, humans can know things no mathematical theory can prove. 06:57:59 Which is a really, really dopey argument, because the Goedel statement is not false for all theories. 06:58:15 (Even if "theory" means "theory capable of expressing arithmetic", as I glossed.) 06:58:22 zzo38: well, what's TNT? 06:59:21 TNT = Typographical Number Theory 07:00:17 TNT + "TNT is consistent" is almost certainly consistent. 07:00:35 OK. I guess I thought so 07:00:36 The theory X where X = TNT + "X is consistent" is not consistent, I think. 07:00:49 OK 07:02:49 A cute theory is ZFC + "ZFC is inconsistent". 07:02:58 OK 07:03:12 Gracenotes :D 07:04:19 I wonder if you say "OK" every time I include a string of the form "X is consistent" or "X is inconsistent". 07:04:54 Maybe. I am just confirming that I read it and don't have a disagreement of it 07:06:09 A cute response is OK + "OK is inconsistent". 07:06:10 * uorygl coughs. 07:06:12 Do you know how to add natural numbers represented as sets? 07:06:19 To what? 07:06:21 OK + "OK is inconsistent" 07:06:28 Aww, how cute! 07:07:12 Like, if you have 0 is {} and 1 is {0} and 2 is {0,1} and so on, how do you figure out the set that is represent the sum of two natural numbers which are as sets, using only set operations (and not arithmetic operations)? 07:07:46 Hmm... 07:07:47 zzo38: whats your definition of successor there 07:07:59 successor={#|[#]}; 07:08:05 because succ {} = {{}}, and succ {{}} = {{},{{}}} 07:08:07 The successor of X is X union {X}, I'm sure. 07:08:23 Yes, that's the same thing I just wrote, but in words 07:08:49 ok so then if 0 = {}, then succ {} = {} u {{}} = {{}}, such {{}} = {{}} u {{{}}} = {{},{{}}}, etc. ok, i see. 07:09:06 Yes 07:09:24 im used to seeing it be succ x = {x,{x}} 07:09:30 * uorygl straightens out his mind. 07:09:48 Okay. X + Y is X union {X + y : y is in Y}, I think. 07:10:12 OK, let me think about that a bit 07:10:39 i think your definition is fine 07:10:54 each number is the set of all numbers below it 07:11:06 augur: Yes, that's the usual way 07:11:13 And is the way I am using 07:11:15 It's a recursive definition, of course. 07:11:18 yes 07:11:19 thats what i just said :P 07:11:38 I know 07:11:43 ok then 07:14:08 And how should a pair be represent as a set? 07:14:20 (x,y) = {{x},{x,y}} 07:15:01 OK, that seems to work. I can add it into the esolang wiki page [[Hyper Set Language]] 07:15:28 Hmm. I found some philosophy forums online. 07:15:31 Reading them makes me ill. 07:16:32 I think one post said that the philosopher is a minus sign or phallus seeking Sophia. 07:17:06 The poster ought to have been banned on sight for saying anything so vacuous. 07:18:22 So that means that (0.0) is the same as ([1]) (in Hyper Set Language) [[0]] [[0];[0;0]]->[[0];[0]]->[[0]] 07:19:54 (0,0) is the same as 1. 07:20:00 And (0,1) is the same as 2. 07:20:07 And there are no other noteworthy equivalences. 07:20:41 Sorry, I think I made a mistake. Let me look again 07:20:47 Maybe I am a bit tired 07:21:02 Or maybe not. 07:21:05 Let me see again 07:21:42 Maybe I did or didn't make a mistake. Well, I will think of it tomorrow today I sleep 07:21:55 uorygl: I understand you, though. 07:22:18 Now figure out how to make a linked list. 07:22:21 Hint: it's really easy. 07:22:50 Yes, I can figure out, it is easy. 07:23:16 Just like the right part of the pair is the next pair of the list, isn't it? 07:23:39 Right. 07:24:11 You have Cartesian products and tagged unions. With those, you can implement ADTs. With those, you can implement... a lot. 07:26:39 As far as I know, this way of representing a pair might also mean that (fork\I) is "the set of all single element sets of single element sets"? (If I haven't made a mistake, that is) 07:27:04 Yes I can see, you can implement a lot. 07:27:44 I have implemented Russell's paradox, even. Now I want to see how many other paradoxes I can represent in Hyper Set Language, too. 07:29:39 In ZFC, there is no set of all single element sets of single element sets. 07:29:57 Now I have to think how to make the definition of sum you wrote, in Hyper Set Language. 07:30:00 Call that set S; it would have to have {{S}} as an element, which is not allowed. 07:30:55 OK, I understand. Of course, ZFC is not the only set theory 07:31:15 There is also another set theory I have read about on Wikipedia that allows the set of all sets 07:31:22 That sounds like NF. 07:31:35 I want to see a type theory thingy based on NF. 07:34:03 Yes, NF was the one I was thinking of. 07:36:43 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Riichi.). 07:43:56 mornin 07:50:02 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 07:50:30 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 07:51:10 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 07:53:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:03:09 -!- krana has joined. 08:03:44 -!- krana has left (?). 08:14:54 popquiz 08:15:40 uorygl: if you have a CFG and you have to rewrite all instances of a non-terminal simultaneously with the same rule, rather then in any order, does this change the power of the grammar? 08:18:53 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 08:20:35 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:26:10 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:37:28 -!- Asztal has joined. 08:48:04 -!- daef has left (?). 09:12:10 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.). 09:13:26 -!- tombom has joined. 09:19:20 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:23:17 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:31:03 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:58:33 -!- kar8nga has joined. 10:08:27 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:08:52 -!- kar8nga has joined. 10:28:05 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 10:46:33 BEHOLD http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_grammar 10:49:30 augur, that term reminds me of "controlled substances" 10:49:45 ;D 10:49:47 which explains a lot about linguistics :P 10:50:05 controlled grammars are almost exclusively CS. 10:50:14 i just posted that article tho. 10:50:21 took me like a week to write 10:50:52 * AnMaster considers adding a "this article's introduction may be too technical" template at the top 10:51:30 also a lot of "citation needed" in various parts of it of course 10:52:30 the whole thing is basically from the two cited links. 10:53:04 augur, aha! no _notable_ sources then! 10:53:13 (or something) 10:53:24 it was incredibly hard to find information on any of these formalisms 10:54:04 augur, you realise that apart from "this article's introduction may be too technical", the other suggestions were a parody of wikipedia? 10:54:20 s/other/ 10:54:29 s/\//\/\/ 10:54:32 aaargh 10:54:38 XD 10:54:44 s/\/$/\\/\// 10:54:46 err 10:54:48 not even that 10:54:49 hahahahaha 10:54:51 s/\/$/\\\/\// 10:54:52 even 10:54:57 I think that might be correctr 10:55:01 correct* 10:55:02 now we know how to get anmaster stuck in an infinite loop :D 10:55:10 augur, or I just do: 10:55:24 /other/s#$#/# 10:55:25 there 11:22:07 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:05:15 ^source 12:05:15 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 12:08:37 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:13:25 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 12:13:58 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:31:33 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:50:19 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalist_grammar 12:50:20 :D 13:24:43 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:30:45 -!- scarf has joined. 13:45:17 * AnMaster glares at Deewiant for causing unnecessary debugging by not clearly stating that mycouser after it reported it could read a char also informed that it read an additional char and threw it away (presumed to be a newline I guess) 13:45:35 thus making me think that my STRN in efunge was silently dropping a letter 13:45:47 spent about 10 minutes debugging that before I found out the cause 13:54:35 ouch 13:57:33 exactly 13:57:36 hi scarf btw 14:01:10 wow, security update for sudo, you don't get those often 14:01:50 local privilege escalation, as well 14:02:03 saw it and updated 14:03:11 yep, it isn't exploitable with the default config, though 14:03:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:03:53 scarf, well, my config is close to default iirc 14:04:22 basically, the bug is that if you grant permission to arbitrary people to edit a particular file via sudoedit 14:04:34 then arbitrary people can run an exectuable named sudoedit in any directory 14:04:52 which they could have written themselves 14:05:13 if you aren't granting permission to sudoedit particular files, everything's fine 14:05:38 I never used sudoedit 14:06:23 I've used it on occasion, but my /etc/sudoers doesn't grant me or anyone else any permission to use it beyond my typical permission to sudo anything 14:06:37 scarf, oh btw I think it would be a good idea to formally prove su and sudo correct. Probably needs to be rewritten in some other language for that to be feasible 14:06:46 hmm, interesting 14:07:11 those are quite security sensitive so... 14:07:15 su should be incredibly simple, shouldn't it? call out to PAM to verify auth, suid to whatever user that it 14:07:16 *is 14:07:21 sudo is quite a bit more complex 14:07:28 scarf, PAM would need to be verified 14:07:30 as well 14:07:34 yep 14:07:43 I think proving PAM correct is more interesting than proving su correct 14:08:00 yep 14:08:15 and that depends on the actual pam config in use too 14:08:48 but you could probably at least prove each module correct 14:09:07 and the framework itself I guess 14:09:31 if you have doen that, proving any specific setup correct shouldn't be too hard 14:10:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 14:10:50 of course, for modules like ldap or nis auth or whatever, you would need to prove the tcp/ip stack, the network, and the remote server correct. Which is not really feasible 14:17:04 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 14:21:47 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Quit: Changing server). 14:22:07 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 14:22:15 -!- MissPiggy has quit (Changing host). 14:22:15 -!- MissPiggy has joined. 14:29:48 ooh, darcs 2.4 is out 14:33:44 a darc time for humankind 14:43:26 -_- 15:16:32 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:17:27 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:20:37 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:25:08 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:25:23 -!- tombom has joined. 16:11:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:23:00 Where's alise? 16:23:13 haven't seen him this weekend at all 16:23:13 I'm worried 16:23:29 hello 16:23:36 -!- Sgeo_ has changed nick to Sgeo. 16:24:05 I would like if alise came on 16:33:35 scarf, same 16:48:30 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net). 16:50:49 Deewiant, would using opaque values in SOCK break anything do you think? 16:50:53 for mycology or other apps 16:51:12 Mycology prints them, at least 16:51:16 hm okay 16:51:57 Deewiant, it doesn't for the FILE handles iirc 16:54:55 So it doesn't 16:54:58 actually, implementing SOCK in efunge would be nasty... erlang's abstraction of the sockets API of the OS makes it rather different than BSD sockets 16:55:00 so 16:55:36 I would have to emulate the bsd style sockets on top of the erlang abstraction of the bsd-style sockets of the OS! 16:56:12 Deewiant, wonderful isn't it with fingerprints that assume something similar to C is being used ;) 16:57:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 16:57:58 -!- sebbu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:58:15 Deewiant, didn't you complain about that too some time ago? 16:58:33 might have been about ncurses API using macros 16:58:47 That's not really the fingerprint's fault, though 16:59:03 Deewiant, well, it could have used another abstraction... 16:59:20 Sure, but it specifically wanted to be a curses binding :-P 17:00:12 Deewiant, for example, I have no idea how to set SO_DEBUG in erlang. Not that I can find the man page documenting what SO_DEBUG actually means anyway... 17:00:31 aahhh seems to have found it 17:00:38 long live full text search with man 17:00:44 man 7 socket has it 17:00:54 "Enable socket debugging. Only allowed for processes with the CAP_NET_ADMIN capability or an effective user ID of 0." 17:00:57 -!- asiekierka has joined. 17:01:05 who would run a funge program as root heh 17:04:59 I love FerNANDo 17:06:28 Actually on Linux that means having CAP_NET_ADMIN... 17:06:58 Well, that capability is enough to make total mess of networking, but.. 17:07:51 Ilari, true, but in my experience capabilities are rarely used 17:07:57 it's usually root or nothing 17:08:09 sure, the support is there but few use file caps or such 17:10:29 scarf, why did you quit? :( 17:10:36 We were having so much fun in IRP#IRP 17:10:42 asiekierka: before you could correct your mistake 17:10:58 the funny thing is, I didn't even swap the mouse buttons just to confuse you 17:11:07 Please enable IRP interpretation capabiities in #esoteric. 17:11:07 I've had them that way round for a while, because the left one is unreliable 17:11:20 asiekierka: nothing says I have to interpret IRP queries here! 17:11:37 -!- asiekierka has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | You have to interpret IRP here.. 17:11:40 Please enable IRP interpretation capabiities in #esoteric. 17:11:50 >:D 17:11:54 -!- AnMaster has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 17:11:57 asiekierka: you can't just cahnge the topic like that 17:11:59 as in, it doesn't work 17:12:04 the topic isn't a binding contract 17:12:17 (nor would putting "this topic is a binding contract" in the topic work, not even against Agorans) 17:12:18 Hm, so a server is only capable of sending text/plain, but can force the client to go to arbitrary URLs, including data: URLs. 17:12:18 -!- asiekierka has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | The topic is now a binding contract. | You have to interpret IRP queries.. 17:12:30 whoopies 17:12:34 missed your next message 17:12:41 Sgeo: I love your reasoning there 17:12:49 -!- asiekierka has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 17:13:06 -!- scarf has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 17:13:13 There is a 1024 byte limit on URLs 17:13:57 Someone devised a way to have longer stuff work, by making a short data: based page essentially pull text from the server as though it were Javascript, and that Javascript displays the content from the server as HTML 17:13:58 Deewiant, it looks like I can't set all options for sockets. As in not all options have a mapping in the erlang API for sockets. Any opinions on the best workaround? Reflecting if those options are used? 17:14:07 So, in that system, is there any way to get forums working nicely? 17:14:08 -!- asiekierka has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | #esoteric == #irp. 17:14:13 Will that work, scarf? 17:14:14 AnMaster: But do they matter? 17:14:19 asiekierka: err, no 17:14:29 and stop messing with the topic 17:14:31 scarf, this is reality in Second Life 17:14:32 I mean, maybe you can't implement a certain option but is there a visible difference 17:14:34 -!- scarf has set topic: 0 days since last topic change | 1 week since last alise sighting | For those who don't know: INTERCAL is basically the I Wanna Be The Guy of programming languages. Not useful for anything serious, but pretty funny when viewed from the outside. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 17:14:42 scarf, http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Kelly_Linden/lsl_hacks 17:14:44 Deewiant, well, out of band data can't be received with that API then 17:14:46 FFS with the topic 17:14:58 Sgeo: probably 17:15:13 this reminds me of the whole concept of a client-side website 17:15:16 Deewiant, not that that bit matters in practise. SO_DEBUG can't be done either 17:15:18 which works vaguely P2Pishly 17:15:23 I want to make an esolang about video tapes 17:15:27 Deewiant, reuseaddr can be done, haven't yet checked the other ones 17:16:18 AnMaster: For example SO_DEBUG, how can you do "socket debugging" through the SOCK API anyway? 17:16:29 Deewiant, good point 17:16:42 So these kinds of options you can just ignore 17:16:47 Deewiant, anyway: so_reuseaddr, so_keepalive and so_broadcast seems supported 17:16:50 the other ones: not 17:17:30 any ideas how could a magnetic medium (VHS tapes, audio cassettes...) -based esolang work 17:17:37 Deewiant, also tcp and udp sockets have quite different APIs in erlang. Ones that make more sense for them than a generic one. But that means I need multiple code paths in SOCK. One for tcp and one for udp 17:17:55 they are even completely different erlang modules 17:18:17 oh dontroute exists too it seems 17:18:46 Deewiant, anyway SO_OOBINLINE *might* matter: "If this option is enabled, out-of-band data is directly placed into the receive data stream. Otherwise out-of-band data is only passed when the MSG_OOB flag is set during receiving." 17:20:45 And how do you plan on setting MSG_OOB through the SOCK API? 17:20:52 -!- kar8nga has joined. 17:20:54 Note: I have no idea what out-of-band data is 17:20:56 Deewiant, impossible afaik 17:21:08 which means that feature will be inaccessible 17:21:23 Deewiant, anyway the remote endpoint could send out of band data I guess 17:21:27 and yeah I have no clue what it is either 17:21:31 It basically means ignore out-of-band data if it's disabled 17:21:47 Deewiant, I can't get at out of band data with the erlang api it seems 17:21:48 at all 17:22:16 (which indicates it is rarely used) 17:23:34 Deewiant, it seems related to the URG TCP (or possibly IP?) flag 17:23:39 For TCP, OOB data generally maps to the URG flag/pointer. 17:23:44 right 17:23:56 Arr, I blame the slowish N900 keyboard. 17:24:08 But it's not much used. 17:24:13 right 17:25:02 Telnet uses it for sending some things, I think. 17:25:07 mhm 17:27:11 fizzie, btw, you talked about ATHR in some future fungot_2. You do know that SOCK and FILE handles would not be inheritable between threads right? 17:27:12 AnMaster: quantum mechanic knows that lizard corpses protect against cockatrices. use a dagger." the hunt is up! even if we can only wish for a while, when i came here, i go to the sea; there's no food. 17:27:16 at least that is the plan 17:27:27 and for FILE it is already the case (since FILE is implemented) 17:34:44 AnMaster: Explicitly disallowed or implementation-defined? 17:36:14 Deewiant, explicitly undefined behaviour 17:36:42 which means using a handle from another thread could map to nasal demons 17:38:19 Aye. 17:39:33 you could have a separate thread to handle handles 17:39:38 and all the other threads call out to it 17:41:57 scarf, well of course 17:42:24 Deewiant, also the spec allows that handle 1 in one thread might be different from handle 1 in another thread 17:42:28 in efunge this is the case 17:42:40 and sock might have overlapping handles with file too 17:43:11 anyway, I wish it could be done as opaque socket objects 17:43:34 but really, it is currently more pain that it is worth. 17:44:21 actually adding support for opaque objects wouldn't be too hard in efunge. A few things would have to be modified to reflect on them (one socket plus another? huh?) 17:45:15 it should be fairly straightforward though 17:50:39 Quick Javascript question: Is it possible to submit the data in a form to a server without actually changing the page? If so, how? 17:51:48 It is, don't know how 17:52:02 See the source of things like GMail :-P 17:52:35 Sgeo: We call it "AJAX". 17:53:12 Is there a way to do it without .. that XML function thingy? 17:53:12 I don't 17:53:19 ait that's not submitting a form is it? 17:53:20 Yes, again don't know how 17:53:29 can javascript POST as well as GET? 17:53:29 It only has XML in the name. 17:53:37 It has jack shit to do with actual XML. 17:53:49 Was about to say that it has cross-browser issues, but I know the browser being used 17:54:06 MissPiggy: I'm fairly sure it can 17:54:08 I think javascript can POST a form yes 17:54:12 Actually, I don't off the top of my head, but I can check 17:54:24 Is there a way to do it without .. that XML function thingy? <-- You can use an iframe 17:54:27 a bit ugly, but works 17:54:35 otherwise XHR would be the only way, AFAIK 17:54:45 XMLHttpRequest is supported by pretty much everything but IE 6. 17:54:56 (Need to use the nearly-equivalent XMLHTTP for that) 17:55:31 And yes, you can post with it. 17:56:15 pikhq, no it isn't 17:56:26 pikhq, for example: lynx, links, w3m 17:56:34 afaik none of them supports XMLHttpRequest 17:56:46 yes but you can only do a POST to your own server 17:56:47 AnMaster: XD 17:56:48 elinks might, though. 17:56:51 I think what I'm using is essentially Gecko 17:56:53 it is not possible to post to another server is it? 17:56:54 pikhq, *maybe* 17:57:13 what if you wanted to post to another server 17:57:35 "There's now a new tutorial on the 'Projects' menu for you to have a try at. This implements the popular CAPTCHA method of form validation, to prevent abuse by spambots and the like. Here we use Ajax to build CAPTCHA into the normal form validation, so the check can conveniently be done before form submission." 17:57:38 * Sgeo facepalms 17:57:58 Sgeo, why? 17:58:01 MissPiggy, I think POST via JS is quite impossible atm, dunno about HTML5 17:58:17 Hm, misunderstood what it was saying 17:58:28 MissPiggy, can't you only GET to your own server as well iirc 17:58:31 * Sgeo facepalms self for facepalming something that wasn't in fact insane 17:58:35 using XMLHttpRequest that is 17:58:51 I thought that was part of the point of it. 17:58:56 same domain or something 18:00:31 FireFly: XMLHttpRequest allows it. 18:00:48 uh, cross-site I meant* 18:00:49 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:00:55 As does the spec. 18:03:29 what about iframes? 18:03:46 I imagine you could GET from a different server using an iframe 18:03:51 but what about POSTing? 18:06:31 You could use JS to click on a button in the iframe? 18:07:06 you could even load a page, edit it to include new fields and post ? 18:10:12 -!- SimonRC has joined. 18:12:49 * pikhq wonders where the e'est of the hirds is. 18:13:36 Wasn't that recent Freenode spam exactly about doing a POST request (that looked like a IRC connection start-up) via a bit of JavaScript embedded on a page. 18:14:50 I didn't ever see the spam-links so I couldn't take a look at what they did exactly. 18:15:47 fizzie: It was. 18:16:01 I wget'ted it and poked around. 18:16:05 Nasty bit of work. 18:16:38 Was it XHR-driven? 18:16:45 -!- fxkr has left (?). 18:16:49 Think so. 18:17:27 Though I do have an (unjustified) belief that simply building an invisible form with the usual DOM methods and submitting that could also work. 18:17:45 I didn't ever see the spam-links so I couldn't take a look at what they did exactly. <-- I saw it. It was iframe based iirc 18:17:52 with some javascript 18:18:50 so it used a real form and submitted it 18:18:57 using javascript 18:26:00 Speaking of which, I also wonder how you could show an in-memory DOM document object (obtained from document.implementation.CreateDocument(...)) to the user. It's not like it has an URL (except a data: URL, of course), and I'm not sure if you can just assign to window.document. (Maybe you can.) 18:27:02 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has changed nick to bsmntbombdood. 18:54:41 -!- jcp has joined. 19:45:36 -!- daef has joined. 19:45:42 hi there again 19:47:20 AnMaster: had no time to read the specs today - but we came a lot nearer to our goal with the videowall-hack :D 19:48:01 daef, what is that hack btw? 19:48:08 daef, I hope it is all legal too 19:48:17 otherwise I don't want to hear about it 19:49:11 AnMaster: nothing really illegal - we just want to display some of our content on a "public" videowall - just shows ad's all day long - nobody wants to see THAT.... 19:49:19 so we found where the signal comes from 19:50:03 no no no this sounds bad 19:50:15 it sounds fun xD 19:50:20 we do no harm 19:50:24 we destroy nothing 19:50:32 i guess it files under "okay" 19:51:24 nevermind 19:51:43 what's the best way to understand belonge-app's that go further than hello world? 19:52:01 i've seen the game of life implementation on the german wikipedia 19:52:10 it looks really bad :) 20:08:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 20:20:20 daef, "belonge"? 20:20:24 did you mean befunge? 20:20:34 sry - braindead 20:20:44 daef, and the GOL in befunge, well I haven't traced it myself 20:20:48 s/belonge/befunge/g 20:20:49 but you would try to trace it 20:21:06 if it is the famouse 93 one it shouldn't be completely impossible 20:21:16 where do i get a nice visualising interpreter`? 20:21:18 of course befunge-93 tends to be as compact as possible 20:21:23 due to the limited space they had 20:21:29 wich was 25x80 20:21:35 err make that 80x25 of course 20:21:39 already read that 20:22:04 daef, befunge-98 programs have 2^32*2^32 at least, and thus tend to be a lot less compact :) 20:22:09 as for visual interpreters, no idea 20:22:13 Mooz had a very nice "syntax-highlighted" bit of Befunge(-93, mostly); coloured blocks with comments for each colour. 20:22:14 but it should be possible to write that 20:22:26 Unfortunately I don't think that thing is in the web any more. 20:22:30 a interpreter shouldn't be that hard 20:22:36 (for 93) 20:22:37 daef, befunge93? trivial 20:22:41 befunge-98 is hard 20:22:42 however 20:22:50 an 2dimensional IP, a stack - ready 20:22:52 just use the trace output from an existing interpreter with that feature 20:23:04 daef, and various commands operating on those 20:23:08 sure 20:23:09 anyway. 20:23:09 I had an equally nice Turing machine interpreter syntax-highlightation in Befunge-mostly-93, but I stupidly lost that; both the code and the comments. 20:23:20 lol 20:23:39 And there's the start for commented fungot code, but that's probably not a good example, and it's incomplete anyway. 20:23:40 fizzie: the longer the wand the better. 20:23:58 cfunge can produce output like: 20:24:00 tix=0 tid=0 x=26 y=15: > (62) 20:24:01 tix=0 tid=0 x=27 y=15: : (58) 20:24:01 tix=0 tid=0 x=28 y=15: # (35) 20:24:36 it should be possible to use the coordinates to draw a trace 20:24:52 I'm sure there are many -93 interpreters that can show the playfield and stack, and single-step through code. 20:24:59 well sure 20:25:04 but not draw nice traces on it 20:25:26 If they can single-step you can get a trace easily 20:25:47 (tix and tid are related to t of course, but drawing a trace in a program that uses t is probably too confusing to be useful anyway!) 20:26:07 then single stepping and watching it might be more useful 20:26:21 fizzie, what about that glfunge? ;P 20:26:22 t was which one? 20:26:24 I think I started my Befunge career with zbefunge, which has that sort of thing, but in general I don't think it's a very good interpreter. 20:26:32 AnMaster: Shamefully dead. 20:26:33 daef: Fork another IP 20:26:38 daef, lock-step threads 20:26:46 kk - 93 already had that? 20:26:48 rounds on a round-robin schedule 20:26:48 No 20:26:50 daef, no 20:26:52 kk 20:26:57 i think the GOL is 93 20:27:17 daef, it is 93 that also works just fine in a 98 interpreter 20:27:49 Modulo minor inconsistencies 20:28:12 :) 20:28:33 Deewiant, the life one? no? 20:28:38 it runs perfect iirc 20:28:56 of course it runs so fast so you can't really follow it in cfunge 20:29:01 Oh, we were talking about a specific program; my bad 20:29:08 Deewiant, yep 20:29:37 Deewiant, in ccbi I get about 10 FPS or so 20:29:42 in cfunge it is just a blur 20:29:48 How do you count those FPS :-P 20:29:56 Deewiant, updates of screen per second 20:30:11 Yes, that is the definition of FPS 20:30:18 How do you count it, with a stopwatch? 20:30:47 Deewiant, sleep && kill on the same line as starting ccbi 20:31:00 Deewiant, then counting how many it drew 20:31:09 Heh 20:31:13 Deewiant, counting it under my breath give roughly the same result 20:31:22 Deewiant, indicating it was a reasonable approx 20:31:27 How many FPS for cfunge, then? 20:31:28 yes, ccbi is that snow 20:31:36 Yes, I know CCBI 1 is slow 20:31:39 Not snow, though 20:31:41 Deewiant, haven't yet tested the sleep and kill method on it 20:32:31 hm wtf, cfunge ignored that signal 20:32:31 I think I "benchmarked" with "game of life for K seconds, output redirected to file, measure size of generated output files". 20:32:35 not supposed to happen 20:32:54 What are you killing it with, SIGXCPU? :-P 20:32:54 so - starting a movie 20:32:59 Deewiant, SIGINT 20:33:03 but ctrl-c works 20:33:07 which means this makes no sense 20:33:25 Deewiant, also what is SIGXCPU now again? 20:33:34 eXceeded CPU 20:33:36 (time) 20:33:57 Deewiant: eXtreme CPU. 20:34:11 Yes, that; sorry, my mistake. 20:34:16 For eXtreme programs. 20:34:25 Written using eXtreme Programming techniques., 20:34:26 eXtreme Funge-98 20:35:01 XFunge is not a bad name, though people might expect an X Window System GUI in it. 20:36:01 I think I had "XCPU" as the error message that AI tournament system bot-runner returns when the computing time given for a player is exceeded; quite logical, since it gets a SIGXCPU signal. 20:36:26 Deewiant, actually, ccbi seems slower now... 59 frames for 10 seconds. 20:36:41 ooh, "XFunge"? there's a funge with an X gui? 20:36:50 Deewiant, also it was due to a trivial typo in the command 20:37:01 olsner, I don't implement that fingerprint 20:37:25 Deewiant, and 758 frames from cfunge for the same time 20:37:47 that is grepping for those ..................... lines GOL uses to separate the drawings with 20:37:51 then doing wc -l 20:38:03 (yes I use grep -F) 20:38:19 I use fgrep but that's just me 20:38:22 92K ccbi.out 20:38:22 1,2M cfunge.out 20:38:44 Deewiant, last I looked fgrep on linux systems were either a symlink or a two-line wrapper script for grep 20:39:02 (#!/bin/sh\ngrep -F "$@") 20:39:08 exec grep ... even 20:39:32 /bin/fgrep: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.18, stripped 20:39:35 And not a symlink 20:39:41 actually using du -bsh would be more fair: 20:39:43 90K ccbi.out 20:39:43 1,2M cfunge.out 20:39:51 ccbi managed even less ;P 20:40:01 Yeah, take off the -h and watch them both change :-P 20:40:13 91959 ccbi.out 20:40:13 1163264 cfunge.out 20:40:14 yep 20:40:28 Deewiant, but without -b it will be rounded to whole blocks on disk 20:40:31 or something like that 20:41:03 Deewiant, let me re-run it with -b to cfunge 20:41:03 :P 20:41:15 hm strange 20:41:16 oh wait 20:41:28 redirecting to file already made it fully buffered 20:41:33 of course -b won't help then 20:42:27 (well 769 frames with -b. but 758 vs. 769 from a single run of each isn't statistical significiant) 20:42:46 (especially as the cpu is running on dynamic speed and it's a dual core system and what not) 20:42:48 GNU grep has a separate fgrep executable, though it's compiled from a two-line .c file: 20:42:49 #define FGREP_PROGRAM 20:42:49 #include "grep.c" 20:42:57 fizzie, haha 20:43:01 I guess they're hoping for better optimizations there. 20:43:10 fizzie, XD 20:43:48 I guess you could benchmark (with a large enough file to get a reasonable "asymptotic" speed) "fgrep" and "grep -F" to see if it made a difference. 20:44:03 fizzie, anyway I don't have jitfunge handy so can't test it 20:44:04 against there 20:44:07 these* 20:44:16 and I hope it won't be as dead as gl-funge! 20:44:52 I thought it already was :-P 20:45:28 :( 20:45:32 It's not quite as dead; I actually got it a lot cleaner architecturally some time ago -- it's a lot easier to port now, for example -- but it's also broken at the moment; doesn't even run life correctly. 20:46:09 anyway, SIGINT won't work for efunge, that will give me a "continue/start shell/start debugger/some/more/options/I/forgot" prompt 20:48:12 Deewiant, efunge produces output faster it seems when watching it, but it has a longer load time 20:48:48 -!- Oranjer has joined. 20:48:51 I get about 54 frames in 10 seconds from it 20:48:55 just below ccbi 20:49:09 lets try longer intervals 20:50:14 ah found it, seems related to using -KILL instead of -INT 20:50:21 meaning it couldn't flush the buffer before exiting 20:50:42 I get 98 (efunge) vs. 103 (ccbi) for 20 seconds 20:50:58 RestrainedLife is no more. Long Live RestrainedLove! 20:50:59 also erlang seems to always use unbuffered for stdout or something 20:52:24 1565 from cfunge for 20 seconds 20:52:26 RC/Funge-98 appears to get a decent in-between result 20:52:49 Deewiant, I can try it in a bit. It is hard to compare different cpus 20:52:53 No idea if I've compiled it with optimizations or anything though... 20:53:06 Deewiant, I assume your ccbi binary is compiled with full optimisations? 20:53:13 I used your official binary you see 20:53:15 AnMaster: Of course I ran them all myself 20:53:21 and cfunge with full optimisation 20:53:29 and efunge with hipe at o3 20:53:31 Full optimizations but it is upx-compressed which gives it a constant slowdown at start 20:53:43 Deewiant, fine, but it still beats erlang runtime 20:55:35 Yeah, you might get a frame or two more if you feel like un-UPXing it, but nothing significant 20:55:45 Deewiant, I don't have upx installed 20:55:57 Easy enough to install if you feel that much like it 20:56:13 nah, isn't it different algorithm in closed and open versions? 20:56:35 No clue? I just use arch linux's package of it 20:56:36 I don't know which you used but I know which this distro would ship (open only) 20:56:43 Deewiant, on ubuntu laptop atm 20:56:51 and my arch linux desktop is much slower 20:56:54 And it doesn't really matter, either it can decompress it or not :-P 20:57:22 sempron 3300+ at 2 GHz vs. core 2 duo at 2.66GHz 20:57:24 no match 20:57:50 Deewiant, anyway, did you build your cfunge optimised and with 32-bit cells? 20:58:02 No clue 20:58:58 now running it again for cfunge with better optimised build 20:59:05 (inexact bounds) 20:59:12 and no t support 20:59:30 In other words, a noncompliant build ;-) 20:59:41 Deewiant, with that build I now get 2097 frames from cfunge for 20 seconds 20:59:51 that is more than 100 FPS! 21:00:13 Deewiant, fine, rebuilding with exact bounds 21:00:23 Now implement the same algorithm for Conway's game of life in C and smile at your 10000 FPS ;-) 21:00:33 Deewiant, har 21:00:44 Deewiant, now just use hashlife 21:00:50 and watch it grow way way higher 21:00:51 Yep 21:01:15 Deewiant, with no t support but with exact bounds I get 1934 frames for 20 seconds 21:01:25 Hmm, pretty big difference 21:01:32 Oh right, it p's all over the place 21:01:58 Deewiant, (t,exact):1565 (-t,exact):1934 (-t,-exact):2097 21:03:41 Deewiant, still it looks like not having to have the logic to switch ip and what not matters about 2.3 times as much 21:03:51 ... as exact bounds 21:04:00 Quite 21:04:52 I wonder what cpressy would say on the exact bounds issue 21:05:04 Deewiant, I somehow doubt that fbbi would pass mycoedge+fixed 21:05:14 heheh 21:05:24 Does efunge? 21:05:30 Deewiant, of course it does. 21:05:49 Okay, so then I know of three interpreters that do :-P 21:06:01 Deewiant, the one lifthrasiir (?) wrote passed too iirc 21:06:12 Which one? 21:06:18 Deewiant, forgot it's name 21:06:18 pyfunge? 21:06:22 maybe 21:06:33 I'm pretty sure it doesn't implement that... but maybe I'm wrong 21:06:37 Haven't tested them properly after all 21:06:52 Deewiant, of course the exact bounds is somewhat... fudged... in the case of multiple ATHR threads 21:07:20 it it is however guaranteed to have been the exact bounds *at some point* during execution, probably a recent point at that. 21:07:29 :-D 21:07:30 and it will be no less than that the current thread wrote 21:07:38 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:07:46 Always return (0,0) - (0,0): "sure it was valid before the program was loaded" 21:07:48 it is just that updates from *other* threads might take some time to reach 21:07:52 Deewiant, har 21:08:00 Deewiant, I need this for wraparound too 21:08:05 it was one hard problem to solve at that 21:08:21 Did you do it majorly differently from cfunge, then? 21:08:31 Deewiant, well yes of course it was 21:08:53 Deewiant, plus it differs in trunk and supervisor-tree branches quite widely 21:09:07 Hey, they're selling our apartment. (Or, to be more exact, another apartment in the same group-of-buildings, with exactly identical size and layout.) 21:09:19 fizzie, who are "they"? 21:09:22 In other words, they're not selling your argument. 21:09:26 Deewiant, indeed 21:09:27 Nor apartment. 21:09:32 or that 21:09:33 How'd I manage that, one wonders. 21:09:35 Presumably whoever lives here. 21:09:39 I mean, there. 21:09:41 (Gah.) 21:09:44 Deewiant, nor augment 21:10:02 somehow I read "argument" as "augment" first 21:10:12 Great success by all parties involved 21:10:23 Deewiant, which made me even more confused when I found it was "argument" 21:10:39 :P 21:17:06 That was one conversation-killing exchange. 21:31:47 Hmm. I have discovered an issue with Esotope-BFC. 21:31:59 It doesn't handle wrapping correctly. 21:38:02 pikhq, wrapping? 21:38:11 pikhq, as in 255 -> 0? 21:38:29 pikhq, then rest assured that I'm 99% sure in-between does :P 21:39:19 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:39:26 Hi :-) 21:40:08 hello 21:41:50 AnMaster: Link to in-between? 21:42:24 pikhq, site is probably down. Due to no longer having that server 21:42:26 or domain 21:42:32 could push it to launchpad 21:42:38 (in a bit) 21:42:41 (a bit busy now) 21:42:46 Mmm. 21:47:10 I've been trying to take a 3d anaglyph. Anyone have experience making them? Here's my first try http://patchworkpixels.co.uk/3d_soft_toys.htm 21:47:32 anaglyph? 21:48:55 doesn't work impomatic 21:49:30 * MissPiggy wondrs how much geek-cred I get for having 3 different 3D glasses next to me at all times.. 21:49:39 MissPiggy: What doesn't work, the link or the anaglyph? 21:49:44 it doesn't look 3D 21:50:49 I think I know what the problem is. There wasn't much depth to the scene and I used the flash. 21:51:14 I don't think flash should be any problem 21:51:45 * MissPiggy wondrs how much geek-cred I get for having 3 different 3D glasses next to me at all times.. <-- 0.12 nethack accessions only 21:51:48 I took the shots at 65mm apart (same as my eyes). I'll make it further next time. The flash is a problem because the shadow is in two different places. 21:51:58 hehe 21:52:02 3D shadows! 21:52:55 impomatic, use a tripod and some bg light. 21:53:01 impomatic, and no flash 21:53:21 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:53:31 impomatic, also what software did you use for it? 21:53:42 AnMaster: thanks I'll try that. I used Gimp 21:53:47 impomatic, huh 21:54:04 impomatic, oh and create a panorama with hugin while you are at it 21:54:17 use a panorama head to avoid parallax of course 21:54:28 (I wish I had such a head for my tripod) 21:54:37 (I only have a ball head :/) 21:55:17 What's a panorama head? 21:55:21 Hmmm... what's a panorama head? I assume it slides from side to side? 21:55:58 I used a mini tripod with positions marked out on the table. 21:56:40 I converged the shots slightly to at a point on the wall. Maybe they shouldn't converged on the foreground? 21:57:17 "This section uses PNG images heavily. Typically, most browsers that cannot display PNG images are often old enough to have more than adequate built-in Gopher support and do not require Overbite software. For more details, please see the information on the Floodgap Public Gopher Proxy." 21:57:18 hehe 21:57:25 (from http://gopher.floodgap.com/overbite/) 21:57:36 Mmm, gopher. 21:57:43 pikhq, the text was funny though 21:57:49 the proper version is at gopher://gopher.floodgap.com/1/overbite/ 21:58:04 also "heavily" = 3 images 21:58:06 I think 21:58:15 oh 4 21:58:15 someone should show that to zzo38 21:58:18 unless he knows it already 21:58:29 scarf, I assume he knows overbite 21:58:36 but it is unlikely he will use it 21:58:36 so do I 21:58:49 * pikhq seems to recall zzo38 being responsible for Gopher still being in Gecko for some reason. :P 21:58:49 he use his own browser doesn't it? Based on xulrunner 21:58:58 pikhq: wait, what? 21:59:01 what? 21:59:05 I commented upon that bug too 21:59:10 so no 21:59:16 *shrug* 21:59:30 All I know is that I'm looking at a Gopher page in modern Gecko. 22:00:07 so am I 22:00:34 I use lynx though 22:00:40 it is better for gopher 22:00:49 (in general) 22:01:05 overbite probably helps firefox become as good 22:01:50 What's poor about it? 22:02:07 A panorama head is just a tunable metallic construction that makes it possible for you to position a camera on a tripod so that when you rotate it, it turns around the no-parallax point of the lens, therefore making it a lot easier to stitch images together. (I don't see the question answered anywhere.) 22:02:38 fizzie, did someone ask it? 22:02:46 oh I missed the question 22:02:49 impomatic, ^ 22:02:51 sorry 22:04:36 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 22:04:38 Thanks, I'll take a look on eBay 22:05:58 impomatic, well, that is for panoramas only 22:06:03 impomatic, not needed for 3D images at all 22:06:07 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:06:22 impomatic, plus it needs to fit your tripod of course 22:06:35 not sure if the mounting is standard or not 22:07:37 Wikipedia has some decent Anaglyphs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaglyph_image 22:07:56 impomatic, I don't have 3D glasses :( 22:14:25 -!- adu has joined. 22:22:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:23:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:23:44 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 22:36:39 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:42:01 12:20:48 s/belonge/befunge/g 22:42:34 i hear the name befunge started as a similar typo. although i don't know what it was a typo of. 22:42:54 "before", apparently 22:43:40 that typo makes no sense on qwerty, at least... 22:44:12 It's kind of like how some people can typo "argument" for "apartment" 22:44:22 hm 22:44:52 so closer to the chair, then 22:45:11 Probably 22:46:05 dammit i've got into this habit of chewing my tongue :( 22:47:24 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:51:32 oerjan: My Oxford Dictionary of Euphemisms says tongue means "an enemy prisoner captured for interrogation"; strange thing to chew. 22:52:14 yummy 22:52:45 On the other hand, 'chew' is listed as "to practice fellatio", so... 22:54:01 the prisoner better hope the interrogators are not using that dictionary 22:54:02 I chewed a pack of paperclips :( 22:54:12 now I've run out 22:54:18 ?!? 22:54:36 paperclip candy? 22:54:54 Project Paperclip 22:54:59 I also chewed up a few of the PCI slot guards from my PC case... 22:55:14 Asztal: are you a bot? 22:55:19 Asztal: Have you polymorphed to a xorn, perhaps? 22:56:27 I can understand "I chewed a paperclip" perhaps by accident, but "I accidentally chewed an entire box of paperclips" doesn't compute 22:56:47 not by accident 22:56:52 they're just very more-ish :) 22:58:01 fungot: You're a bot; would you eat paperclips? 22:58:02 fizzie: they say that gremlins can make a bomb from the tombs, and therefore well suited for its electrical organ which enables it to be amazingly sturdy. he excelled them even in lithe economy of motion. they are quite difficult to kill. 23:01:10 -!- cal has joined. 23:01:12 -!- cal has quit (Client Quit). 23:01:44 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:05:28 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:08:00 ^style 23:08:01 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp youtube 23:09:09 I rather like the nethack style. It's not very good at making sense, but it's occasionally funny. 23:09:24 "daedalus built the labyrinth, famous throughout the world a grid bug was, you need a key in order to open it; it was never supposed to seek nourishment, or one grown from a cutting, not in mordor only." 23:16:29 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920]). 23:35:55 -!- scarf has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:54:31 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:56:52 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:59:19 -!- gm|lap has joined. 23:59:20 -!- gm|lap has quit (Changing host). 23:59:20 -!- gm|lap has joined.