←2010-03-04 2010-03-05 2010-03-06→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:26 <MissPiggy> there it is gone
00:02:04 <alise> you're strange.
00:02:04 <alise> really terribly strange
00:02:50 <MissPiggy> alise what do you have against nasa?
00:03:10 <lament> fun fact: "nasa" means "crazy"
00:03:19 <MissPiggy> :3
00:03:26 <alise> well you misinterpret gregor's joking "fail" as serious and then you say some sort of can't-tell-if-it's-serious space conspiracy stuff a second later :P
00:03:43 <MissPiggy> you are just impossible alise!!!
00:05:45 <Sgeo> If I start falling in love with Ruby, is that a bad thing?
00:05:51 <alise> Sgeo: yes.
00:05:56 <MissPiggy> yeah I think ruby sucks
00:06:09 <MissPiggy> except it's kind of useful....
00:06:16 <MissPiggy> but appart from that......
00:06:17 <alise> also, you realise that there's going to be a point in your programming career when you /can't/ just ask us an answer to every dilemma :)
00:06:36 <Sgeo> lol
00:07:01 <Sgeo> Considering that I'm still going to keep messing with Ruby regardless of complaints about it in this channel..
00:08:29 <coppro> it's okay
00:08:34 <coppro> alise complains about everything
00:08:44 <uorygl> Unix domain sockets are difficult to find information about.
00:08:55 <coppro> and is thus not an objective test of the goodness of a language
00:09:29 <alise> Sgeo: then don't ask.
00:09:30 <alise> coppro: no, I don't complain about everything
00:09:33 <uorygl> I'd like to know how to open one, listen on one, see who's on the other end of one, and read and write stuff.
00:09:43 <Sgeo> On the one hand, I want to agree, on the other hand, coppro is a C++ sympathizer >.>
00:09:45 <alise> merely most things that tend to be talked about at length
00:10:07 <Sgeo> No offense
00:10:08 <coppro> Sgeo: I'm not a blind one though
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00:15:27 <cpressey> at&t customer service chat ftw
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00:19:38 <uorygl> Hmm. Linux has less system calls than Lojban has gismu. I could just learn them all. :P
00:19:43 * cpressey 's soul is bleeding
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00:23:12 <lament> mention of lojban = ban
00:23:51 <Gregor> That's why they call it Loj-BAN
00:24:00 <lament> yeah exactly
00:24:03 <uorygl> Mention of logic language = language?
00:24:10 <uorygl> What if I mention patching the Linux kernel so that it's a MOO?
00:24:35 <MissPiggy> what the hell is logical about lojban
00:24:42 <uorygl> I have no idea.
00:24:43 <MissPiggy> it's the most illogical thing I know :|
00:25:16 <alise> MissPiggy: consistency
00:25:33 <cpressey> I've already been banned from my lodge.
00:25:55 <cpressey> I looked at the Grand Poo-Bah funny.
00:27:35 <alise> Is your lodge Agora?
00:28:04 <coppro> The Grand Poo-Bah is not from Agora
00:29:39 <alise> I know that.
00:30:23 <cpressey> Polished, vertical walls are consistent too, and climbers just loooove them.
00:30:49 <cpressey> Sorry, it's the best analogy I know for why consistency + spoken language = not exactly a love affair
00:31:35 <alise> Lojban isn't the most interesting thing ever.
00:31:39 <alise> But I like how it relates to propositional logic.
00:31:46 <alise> Which is probably the real Loj in Lojban.
00:31:56 <lament> ban
00:31:57 <lament> ban
00:31:57 <cpressey> The irregularities in natural language seem to work like coding theory stuff, sometimes?
00:31:58 <lament> ban
00:32:01 <lament> ban
00:32:05 <MissPiggy> alise have you read laws of form?
00:32:13 <lament> i'm gonna be the only person remaining in the channel at this rate
00:32:19 <MissPiggy> has anyone here??
00:33:08 <alise> lament: "mention of lojban = ban"
00:33:13 <alise> even you will not be spared, surely?
00:36:00 <cpressey> MissPiggy: Maybe?
00:36:36 <cpressey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_Form
00:36:51 <cpressey> I haven't read the work. I have read that page. A long time ago.
00:36:55 <lament> alise: I'm exempt
00:36:59 <lament> i'm above the law
00:37:14 <cpressey> Anyway, have to go home to try to fix my internet now.
00:37:15 <MissPiggy> cpressey I read the book it's kinda wild
00:37:28 <MissPiggy> alise seems to have given up on me
00:37:31 <cpressey> MissPiggy: It sounds like of like an esolang-logical-system
00:37:38 <MissPiggy> :D
00:37:42 <alise> mathematical philosophy is 100% bullshit
00:37:45 <alise> from concentrate
00:37:51 <cpressey> alise: :)
00:37:57 <alise> also, winge winge winge
00:38:15 <MissPiggy> alise stfu !!!!!
00:38:27 <cpressey> But every time I say I didn't enjoy "Goedel, Escher, Bach", people look at me as if I'm stupid.
00:38:31 <MissPiggy> you wouldn't know philosophy if it hit you in the face
00:38:31 <cpressey> Ah well.
00:38:36 <cpressey> Later, folks.
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00:38:50 <alise> I enjoyed the dialogues, but the AI content is not so good
00:38:55 <alise> MissPiggy: Oh, shut up.
00:39:04 <lament> i enjoyed GEB
00:39:08 <lament> i only read like 50 pages though
00:39:14 <lament> couldn't read any more, it's so boring and retarded
00:39:18 <MissPiggy> alise why even bother telling me to shut up if you are ignoring me :|
00:41:15 <alise> lament: is it also your favourite bolton album; it blows?
00:41:25 <lament> what
00:42:58 * MissPiggy bites alise
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00:48:44 <uorygl> I wonder why sys_waitpid takes an int *.
00:48:59 <MissPiggy> I only read about one page of GEB before I started to think it was boring and retarded
00:49:09 <uorygl> You read the wrong page, then.
00:49:12 <Gregor> uorygl: ... to put the status into ...
00:49:24 <uorygl> Gregor: well, that makes sense.
00:49:38 <uorygl> Note that I have no idea what sys_waitpid is for.
00:49:38 <Gregor> Seeing as that waitpid(2) takes such an int * :P
00:49:52 <Gregor> ... good.
00:49:57 <Gregor> man 2 waitpid
00:50:11 <uorygl> Is (2) all about system calls?
00:50:58 <uorygl> Huh, I don't have that page.
00:51:21 <Gregor> FAH EEL
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00:52:22 <uorygl> I'm guessing that in general, "foo" is input to the system call, "foo *" is output, and "const foo *" is input.
00:54:27 <alise> http://www.amazon.com/review/RI94SG7XY5YG3/ref=cm_cr_rdp_perm ;; here
00:54:41 <alise> etc: http://www.amazon.com/gp/pdp/profile/AKLYH2CI11XJN/ref=cm_cr_rdp_pdp
00:55:07 <alise> er i mean http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/AKLYH2CI11XJN/ref=cm_pdp_rev_all?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview
00:56:06 <uorygl> Where do I get those man pages?
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00:57:18 <Gregor> Tuberwebsa
01:00:51 <alise> haha, I forgot this: "Yes, Ms. Newsom is a sort of Joni Mitchell meets Yvonne Trent (my fictional name for a singer who is Joanna Newsom minus Joni Mitchell),"
01:03:31 <Gregor> What a useless statement :P
01:04:34 <Sgeo> Hm. Might it make sense for me to Google for one of my passwords [I've used the Gmail password, so it's not like the Google folks don't ha.. wait, they don't have it]
01:05:24 <Sgeo> Just did it. No results =D
01:05:37 <Sgeo> No, you don't get a screenshot
01:06:04 <alise> Gregor: that /may/ be intentional...
01:06:04 <alise> :p
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01:09:03 <alise> "But, this I'm right about: Franz Ferdinand is a person, not a band. Look at the name! It's a first and last name! Why would a band have one person's name? So, they could get on planes with only having to buy one ticket? I think they're too rich at this point to worry about that. And, what would happen when they actually had to sit down in the plane? No attendant is going to let the rest of the "band" stand the whole flight."
01:15:04 <uorygl> Someone has a strong belief that band names have to make sense.
01:15:39 <uorygl> Or simply has a strong desire to prove themselves right.
01:16:15 <uorygl> Which, as we all know, is the most evil desire on the face of the Earth.
01:17:08 <alise> Or is a joke account
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02:06:11 <oerjan> <Sgeo> It's somewhat easy to translate simple ones to Ruby <-- mechanically translating list comprehensions is listed in the haskell report: http://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/exps.html#sect3.11
02:06:41 <oerjan> the syntax is of course different
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02:07:05 <oerjan> (closer to set comprehensions in math)
02:08:31 <oerjan> you're probably missing the part with concatmap ?
02:17:44 <Sgeo> That's mechanically translating Haskell list comprehension syntax to non-sugared Haskell?
02:17:56 <oerjan> yep
02:18:18 <Sgeo> How about non-sugared Haskell -> Ruby?
02:18:46 <oerjan> concatMap = concat . map, or flatten and map from what i glanced from the logs
02:19:21 <oerjan> assuming flatten is not recursive, that would be evil.
02:19:37 * Sgeo is being... I think Ruby's flatten IS recursive. Hold on
02:20:10 <Sgeo> Yep
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02:20:23 <Sgeo> irb(main):002:0> [[[1, 2], [3,4]], 5, 6].flatten
02:20:23 <Sgeo> => [1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6]
02:20:25 <Sgeo> Hi benuphoenix
02:20:32 <benuphoenix> hi Sgeo
02:20:42 <oerjan> well that may mess things up then
02:21:34 <Quadrescence> To do a one-level flatten, map append
02:21:54 <oerjan> oh mutation
02:22:11 <Quadrescence> flattenOnce(x) = map(append, x), or whatever the ruby version would be
02:22:23 <benuphoenix> which lang is this?
02:22:37 <oerjan> ruby
02:22:42 <Quadrescence> I just made that up
02:22:51 <oerjan> oh
02:22:57 <Sgeo> Well, what if some elements aren't lists?
02:23:16 <Quadrescence> Then add that as a special case
02:23:24 <benuphoenix> !help
02:23:25 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
02:23:32 * Sgeo is too focused on SG-1 right now to write Ruby (!)
02:23:39 <Quadrescence> Make your own append function that appends items and lists
02:23:54 <oerjan> Sgeo: you won't have a use for non-list elements for this case, haskell concat only applies to lists of lists (of the same type)
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02:26:00 <oerjan> also if the end result is not a list of lists, you should be able to postpone it to a single flatten at the end, i think.
02:32:49 <oerjan> by using the monad laws for lists *mad evil cackle
02:32:51 <oerjan> *
02:33:39 <oerjan> curses, my plan would have succeeded if not for that meddling return key
02:36:08 <Quadrescence> i hate monads
02:44:07 <Gregor> Now to see who he really is!
02:44:12 * Gregor pulls of oerjan's mask
02:44:27 * Gregor pulls off oerjan's mask, even
02:44:40 <oerjan> boo!
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02:44:59 <oerjan> also ouch, my face!
02:45:49 <Gregor> Old man Johansen! I should have known!
02:46:53 <oerjan> you kids get off my lawn!
02:48:05 <Quadrescence> haha
02:54:36 <Gregor> No wait, Scooby and the gang never were even close, they were always more like "Old man Johansen?!"
02:59:39 <oerjan> that just means you are genre savvy
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04:13:23 <augur> sup foos
04:13:26 <augur> coppro: i figured out the GR thing
04:13:30 <augur> or was it oerjan
04:13:33 <augur> both of yoj
04:13:59 <augur> when GR describes non-interial FoR's as equivalent to inertial FoR's with gravity
04:14:11 <augur> what is meant is not what the universe looks like from that FoR
04:14:22 <augur> but rather what the FoR looks like to someone inside it
04:14:52 <augur> so a _closed box_ that is accelerating, is indistinguishable from, and equivalent to, a non-accelerating version on a planets surface
04:15:31 <augur> if you could see out, that breaks the equivalence, thats not what GR is about. its about the local physics of the FoRs, not the apparent physics of the world outside the FoR
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05:54:21 <AnMaster> <uorygl> Unix domain sockets are difficult to find information about. <-- man 7 unix
05:56:21 <AnMaster> bbl
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07:08:16 <uorygl> It would have been wonderful it someone had pointed out man 7 unix to me 18 hours ago.
07:08:25 <uorygl> It would have saved me about 18 hours.
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08:40:12 <dev_squid> Like my mini webpage? (http://circastudios.site50.net/dev_squid/)
08:42:51 * dev_squid is going to bed.
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09:10:12 <fizzie> Aww, the text is in images.
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14:29:20 <alise> scarf: is there anything useful in the stock windows or should i just nuke it and put ubuntu on?
14:29:31 <alise> Also, what kind of battery life
14:30:29 <alise> do you get?
14:30:29 <alise> Mine says 8 hours, then in a few minutes 6, then 5
14:30:35 <MissPiggy> hi
14:30:35 <alise> 4hr32m remaining apparently now
14:30:36 <scarf> alise: the stock windows is necessary to change most of the settings, like wireless killswitch, etc
14:30:50 <scarf> and on Ubuntu, around 4 to 5 hours depending on what I'm doing, although the battery claims 8 when full
14:30:54 * alise plugs it in
14:30:58 * alise turns off ECO MODE
14:31:06 <alise> actually i'll keep it on
14:31:09 <alise> so it charges more for the journey
14:31:21 <scarf> what I've done is resized the Windows partition smaller, and put Ubuntu on the other half
14:31:27 <scarf> leaving it dual-boot, but only ever booted to Linux
14:31:38 <alise> scarf: I'll probably do some AnMaster-style hypertweaking for battery life
14:31:55 <scarf> powertop!
14:31:59 <alise> Ideally I would back up the Windows partition somewhere then nuke it
14:32:08 <alise> But on a 3G stick connection, that seems unreasonable
14:32:16 <alise> Especially as it's £15/gig
14:32:18 <scarf> although note, that powertop has a tendency to do obnoxious things like turn your mouse off altogether to save power
14:32:27 <alise> Just downloading Ubuntu will cost almost that
14:32:33 <alise> (Well, cost as in train the top-up.)
14:32:40 <alise> scarf: XD
14:32:59 <alise> Mine will have inferior battery life to yours because of the bigger screen, most likely
14:33:22 <scarf> (to be precise, it turns USB autosuspend on, and moving the mouse doesn't turn it back off again, so you have to unplug and replug the mouse to get it to work
14:33:24 <scarf> )
14:34:27 <alise> I should have cleaned this (grubby display model! Probably grubby, at least) with something other than wet kitchen roll, there are little specks of it everywhere
14:34:34 <alise> Didn't really have anything else to use, though.
14:34:47 <scarf> my laptop seems to be imposible to clean
14:34:47 <alise> scarf: ah, well I'll be using the trackpad
14:35:02 <alise> It's rather shiny, it's very easy to spot fingerprints ad stuff on it
14:35:17 <alise> But I just wanted to get the grubbiness off, just in case they didn't clean it very well before boxing it up
14:35:37 <alise> The trackpad on this is rather crappy, I keep side-of-trackpad scrolling by mistake
14:35:43 <alise> and it isn't very well ridged so i keep nudging it
14:36:21 <AnMaster> <scarf> alise: the stock windows is necessary to change most of the settings, like wireless killswitch, etc <-- huh
14:36:36 <scarf> AnMaster: yes, it confuses me too
14:36:38 <AnMaster> that is one advantage with thinkpad, things like that just work in linux
14:36:47 <alise> also, how do you use the mousepad/volume control?
14:36:54 <alise> I suspected Fn+ due to the colour but neither fn nor fn-switch work
14:36:56 <alise> erm
14:36:57 <alise> not mousepad
14:36:59 <alise> numberpad thing
14:37:03 <scarf> volume control is fn-3, fn-4
14:37:14 <AnMaster> scarf, also the kill switch on mine is definitely physical disconnect/connect-style
14:37:18 <alise> does it not give any feedback or something?
14:37:19 <scarf> mouse pad is fn-f10
14:37:35 <scarf> *numpad
14:37:36 <AnMaster> scarf, since the bluetooth and wlan units are simply gone from lsusb/lspci after switching it
14:37:40 <scarf> hmm
14:37:41 <alise> numberpad
14:37:42 <alise> not mousepad
14:37:45 <alise> 7-0, u-p, j-;, m-/
14:37:48 <alise> those ones
14:37:55 <scarf> yep, you turn that on and off with fn-f10
14:38:01 <alise> also, I'm rather pleased with this keyboard layout
14:38:03 <scarf> and the feedback is one of the lights on the front which is easy to miss
14:38:20 <alise> it doesn't seem to have any abominations against layout in it
14:38:34 <alise> I'd prefer shift was the rightmost key but it's not such a big deal
14:38:47 <scarf> control, fn, super, alt, backquote, space at the bottom left is annoying, it's so easy to hit the wrong one
14:38:59 <alise> Backquote at the bottom left?
14:39:00 <scarf> although a bigger screen for you may imply a less cramped layout
14:39:02 <alise> Not for me.
14:39:06 <AnMaster> <scarf> although note, that powertop has a tendency to do obnoxious things like turn your mouse off altogether to save power <-- for usb mouse maybe
14:39:06 <alise> I'm on UK layout though
14:39:09 <alise> For me the bottom row is:
14:39:10 <scarf> yep, looks like bigger screen = bigger keyboard
14:39:12 <scarf> AnMaster: yes
14:39:17 <AnMaster> yes don't enable usb autosuspend
14:39:18 <alise> Ctrl, Fn, Win, Alt, space, alt gr, menu, ctrl, arrow keys
14:39:18 <AnMaster> when it asks
14:39:42 <alise> Second to bottom is shift, \|, ..., /?, shift, pgup/pgdn vertically
14:39:51 <scarf> alise: yours is very similar to mine, except mine puts ` and \ to the right of the two alt keys respectively
14:39:57 <scarf> leaving the spacebar rather small
14:39:58 <AnMaster> <scarf> (to be precise, it turns USB autosuspend on, and moving the mouse doesn't turn it back off again, so you have to unplug and replug the mouse to get it to work) <-- in a different physical port even
14:40:00 <AnMaster> for me
14:40:18 <alise> Fn-f10 just enables the arrows
14:40:18 <AnMaster> (after that the original port works again though)
14:40:21 <alise> I think it's f11 for numbers
14:40:35 <alise> yep
14:40:39 <scarf> err, yes, f11
14:40:42 <scarf> I said the wrong thing
14:40:49 <AnMaster> enable arrows?
14:40:51 <AnMaster> what?
14:41:05 <AnMaster> don't you have arrow keys by default?
14:41:06 <alise> also, are you /sure/ fn-3/4 works?
14:41:08 <scarf> AnMaster: u8ok for arrows
14:41:10 <alise> I see no feedback whatsoever
14:41:15 <scarf> alise: it does on Ubuntu, I'm not sure on Windows
14:41:19 <scarf> although, I think I bound those myself
14:41:20 <alise> AnMaster: numpad arrows
14:41:23 <AnMaster> ah
14:41:29 <alise> maybe it just does it silently
14:41:36 <scarf> system|preferences|keyboard shortcuts
14:41:49 <alise> what colour is yours? to go on to the most inane subject of this laptop
14:41:56 <alise> mine's red, that's all they had though
14:41:57 <AnMaster> alise, does it have a separate numpad or such? Or why is a numpad even useful on a laptop
14:42:07 <scarf> but it correctly detects fn-3 as XF86AudioLowerVolume, fn-4 as XF86AudioRaiseVolume
14:42:11 <scarf> AnMaster: some programs require numpad
14:42:11 <alise> AnMaster: It's part of the alphanum part
14:42:16 <AnMaster> hm
14:42:17 <scarf> alise: mine's black, but the packaging said it was red
14:42:23 <alise> Also, for e.g. spreadsheet number entry
14:42:31 <alise> And if you like that way of movement
14:42:35 <alise> inc. home,end,pgup,pgdown etc
14:42:37 <AnMaster> btw my thinkpad as NmLk on Fn-ScrLk
14:42:41 <AnMaster> which is quite strange
14:42:49 <alise> scarf: lol
14:42:56 <AnMaster> ScrLk is surely even more seldomly used?
14:42:57 <alise> It's not a shiny red which is nice
14:43:14 <alise> AnMaster: so you can scroll look on boot, I guess
14:43:23 <alise> where Fn doesn't work
14:43:27 <scarf> scroll lock is actually kind-of useful in Excel
14:43:29 <AnMaster> alise, hm I think fn works there
14:43:40 <alise> are you sure?
14:43:41 <AnMaster> alise, since fn itself generates no key event
14:43:54 <scarf> ooh, fn-f9 seems to be implemented in hardware
14:44:01 <scarf> that's the key combo to turn the touchpad on/off
14:44:05 <scarf> could be useful when typing
14:44:08 <AnMaster> alise, and Fn-PgUp (turn on keyboard light thingy above screen) doesn't generate any key event (other Fn+* generates key events)
14:44:15 <AnMaster> but that is one key event for fn+whatever
14:44:21 <AnMaster> not one for fn and one for whatever
14:44:41 <alise> scarf: but I'm used to mouse-based OSs, so I'd be hitting it every few seconds
14:44:48 <alise> admittdly myabe not as much, because the trackpad is kind of crap
14:44:50 <alise> *maybe
14:44:58 <alise> so I'll probably adapt
14:44:58 <alise> *admittedly
14:45:14 <alise> Its complete silence most of the time freaks me out to no end
14:45:19 <AnMaster> scarf, alas, that is one thing annoying me, there is a turn touchpad off thingy for mine. But under linux that disables touchpad, touchpad buttons, and *trackpoint buttons*
14:45:23 <alise> TALK TO ME COMPUTER
14:45:28 <AnMaster> only the trackpoint itself is left enabled
14:45:33 <AnMaster> making it completely useless
14:45:42 <AnMaster> (I want to have the trackpoint buttons left enabled of course!
14:45:45 <AnMaster> )
14:45:49 <alise> Bind'em to some key combo :P
14:45:59 <scarf> AnMaster: you use it while typing, to avoid clicking by mistake
14:46:20 <AnMaster> scarf, yes but hitting the buttons for the trackpoint is rather hard
14:46:45 <AnMaster> scarf, the issue I have is "palm on touchpad"
14:46:53 <AnMaster> not "palm on trackpoint buttons"
14:47:03 <scarf> for me, it's the base of the thumb
14:47:24 <AnMaster> well, yes, base of thumb/palm, somewhat the overlap
14:47:28 <alise> scarf: I like how there's a ridge on the caps lock key, except the keys are so flat anyway that it doesn't stop any mistakes whatsoever
14:47:29 <alise> I'm surprised by how thin and light this thing is for the price
14:47:30 <alise> Probably as thin as a MacBook
14:47:45 <AnMaster> scarf, fiddling with the palm detection setting in the synaptics config tool helped somewhat
14:48:08 <scarf> alise: yes, heh
14:48:21 <scarf> are you planning to swap caps lock and control? I haven't, maybe I should
14:48:23 <AnMaster> alise, that ridge: same on mine
14:48:23 <alise> All in all I'm rather happy with my first venture into laptop-land, and PC-laptop-land at that.
14:48:55 <AnMaster> alise, at least the windows key is quite flat
14:48:56 <alise> scarf: Why does every single key have a tiny ridge, I wonder?
14:48:57 <alise> I might just disable caps lock entirely
14:48:58 <alise> AnMaster: Yes, but even moreso on this laptop: The key travel is <10mm
14:48:59 <alise> I'm sure
14:48:59 <alise> More like 5?
14:49:01 <AnMaster> and not as horrible as on desktop keyboards
14:49:06 <alise> Totally flat here.
14:49:07 <AnMaster> alise, ah...
14:49:36 <scarf> alise: probably to make them easier to separate after manufacturing them
14:49:41 <alise> Apparently this thing is designed for the thin/light/battery sort of market
14:49:43 <alise> So it's rather flat all over
14:49:55 <scarf> and I'm used to a key travel that small; it feels like a lot of effort to push keys on a desktop
14:50:03 <scarf> you can still feel the travel, even though it's a small one
14:50:40 <AnMaster> alise, the diff here is maybe 1-2 mm for the ridge thingy. Key travel is... uh about twice the height of the key cap itself. That is when I press down the key fully, the top of it is roughly at the same level as the lower edge of the key caps around it
14:50:42 <alise> Yes, but I've used a scissor-switch board and even that had more key travel
14:50:46 <alise> (It was almost flat itself)
14:50:50 <AnMaster> which would make it 5 mm maybe?
14:50:50 <alise> even the other laptops I tried had much more travel
14:50:52 <alise> I'm not complaining; it's just weird.
14:50:58 <AnMaster> maybe 6-7?
14:51:18 <AnMaster> in any case, it is quite okay to type on if you are used to a full size pc keyboard
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14:51:47 <alise> This thing doesn't even travel the depth of the very thin keycaps
14:51:49 <alise> *keycap
14:51:51 <alise> I bet any less travel and you couldnt
14:51:53 <alise> make it reliable
14:52:03 <AnMaster> heh
14:52:43 <AnMaster> alise, are the main area of the keys (alphanumeric, shift, enter, backspace, tab, caps lock) "full sized"?
14:52:58 <AnMaster> well apart from height of course
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14:53:42 <AnMaster> also I don't get how anyone can live with less than 15" on a laptop that is used for extended periods...
14:53:51 <AnMaster> I mean, 15" is somewhat cramped
14:55:16 <alise> The screen on this thing is very nice despite being glossy.
14:55:16 <alise> I'm using it in sunlight now and it's completely legible
14:55:49 <scarf> laptop screens tend to work rather nicely in sunlight, I find
14:56:02 <scarf> AnMaster: I use 11", and have for months
14:56:41 <AnMaster> scarf, I know
14:56:56 * AnMaster considers a toughbook
14:57:06 <AnMaster> of course it wouldn't be really nice to use
14:57:11 <AnMaster> but it would last forever
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15:25:01 <Yda-84> O:-)
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15:45:08 <alise> IRCing from inside a taxi: The most unreliable activity ever.
15:45:18 <alise> I wonder if this connection is even still working after the five seconds I've ben connectd.
15:45:21 <alise> *been, *connected
15:45:25 <alise> Someone pong.
15:45:30 <MissPiggy> alise pong
15:45:34 <alise> Woot.
15:46:14 <alise> Typing is not the easiest thing
15:47:25 <cpressey> Yay! "Inside a taxi" is the second best thing to "A truckstop outside El Paso".
15:47:26 <alise> But nerdery must transcend such petty constraints AAH GOD A CORNER
15:47:39 <MissPiggy> where are you going alise?
15:47:40 <alise> This taxi never stops. I am constantly in motion!
15:48:08 <hiato> Heh, ten points if you get a passer-by at a red traffic light to type somehting
15:48:11 <alise> i.e., perpetually motivated!
15:48:11 <alise> Take that, physics!
15:48:46 <alise> oh god dammit bumpy road
15:48:46 <alise> badoing badgoin badoing
15:48:46 <alise> hiato: :D
15:49:19 <hiato> alise: so that's a "there're no traiffic lights where I am" then?
15:49:22 <alise> i forsee people living entirely in gigantic housecars in the future
15:49:22 <alise> i can see no issues with this
15:49:36 <hiato> save bathing
15:50:13 <alise> there are traffic lights but :P
15:50:13 <alise> also, how on earth will bathing be a problem? >_>
15:50:13 <alise> there are NO. ISSUES aaaah god corner
15:50:40 <hiato> my point exactly
15:50:46 <alise> i sort of hvae a hard time using the entire keyboard while cornering...
15:51:25 <alise> shut UP
15:51:25 <alise> also, hi we missed you
15:51:25 <alise> (i am ehird)
15:51:35 <hiato> now imagine your laptop to be a concave vessel, somewhat like a bathtub, but more like a laptop in apperance, less so in function. Now imagine that vessel full of water. Then, cue a red traffic light or an innocent stone in the road
15:51:47 <hiato> alise: oh, heh, hi - wow, been a while :)
15:52:01 <augur> SUP ESOFAGS
15:52:28 <fizzie> Banks' non-Culture Against a dark background novel has (in a very minor part, just barely a mention) these things called "rest mobiles" that sound a bit like that, except that people just (seem to) use them for rest stops when traveling long distances over roads, as opposed to permanent places of habitation.
15:52:56 <hiato> fizzie: [citation needed]
15:52:59 <MissPiggy> shut up augur hi
15:53:00 <alise> hiato: i see no issues
15:53:07 <augur> MissPiggy: ;)
15:53:12 <alise> except that if you want to use the water as a keyboard aaah corner
15:53:19 <augur> MissPiggy: you're turning into pthag
15:53:23 <alise> then it might not be very tactile
15:53:33 <MissPiggy> augur I doubt that somehow
15:53:37 <augur> OR ARE YOU PTHAG?!
15:53:46 <MissPiggy> augur, is shut up not a valid sentiment?
15:53:52 <alise> pthong
15:53:54 <augur> no.
15:53:57 <augur> pthong :D
15:54:02 <alise> almost there bye guys
15:54:11 <augur> pthag in a pthong
15:54:18 <augur> bye alise
15:54:30 <hiato> alise: What I'm trying to eventually get to would be the need to start slowing down from the massive top speed of 60 (which is massive, when you consider the vehicle to be a house, or visa versa) about ten minutes prior to when you needed to stop, to avoid spillage (spilage/spiling/spillery and friends)
15:54:34 <augur> fizzie: banks!
15:54:36 <fizzie> hiato: "She rendezvoused with a rest-mobile, ramping up into the echoing parking hold of the Air Cushion Vehicle and leaving the car for refuelling while she stretched her legs." (And later she sleeps and eats breakfast on one; then they're not mentioned again.)
15:54:59 <hiato> fizzie: Project Gutenburg?
15:55:11 <fizzie> hiato: No, just illegal ebook warez nastiness.
15:55:11 * hiato gives +100 points to fizzie for an actual citation
15:55:34 <fizzie> Do you deduct points for the source being of dubious legality?-)
15:55:46 <hiato> I do now
15:56:10 <augur> fizzie: im making a videogame with OCPs :D
15:56:10 <hiato> but then again, it depends from whom exactly you stole
15:57:38 <hiato> if it's from me, -1000000000000000.6, if not, S.E.P
15:58:12 <fizzie> I doubt you would have received any royalties from that. I don't exactly know where it came from; it was on this CD.
15:58:18 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:58:25 <hiato> == S.E.P
15:58:39 <fizzie> Someone has written "v1.0 (17-mar-01) Scanning, layout and quick proofing by 4i Publications" on top of it.
15:59:19 <hiato> again, S.E.P. Industrial book-spy perhaps? It's all the rage these days
16:01:09 <hiato> what happened to ais523?
16:01:15 <scarf> I'm here
16:01:20 <scarf> just under a different nick
16:01:24 <hiato> Aha, also did the shuffle
16:01:42 <scarf> and "ais523" still pings me
16:02:02 <hiato> really? nice
16:02:17 <scarf> you can configure many IRC clients to ping on all sorts of words
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16:02:23 <scarf> mine pings on things like "ais523" and "INTERCAL"
16:02:28 <hiato> baha
16:02:47 -!- oklopol has joined.
16:02:53 <hiato> yeah, I guess I never did do man irssi
16:03:24 <hiato> well, good to know that the comunity is still here, mostly
16:03:50 <scarf> I use Konversation
16:03:50 <MissPiggy> hi oklocork
16:04:09 <MissPiggy> oklopoke I :(((
16:04:37 <MissPiggy> I looked up the solution to a problem I was doing and the answer was something I should have been able to do ;(
16:04:48 <augur> oklopol :D
16:04:52 * augur huggles okl
16:08:24 <MissPiggy> augur
16:08:30 <MissPiggy> d you have an ifile.it account
16:08:46 <AnMaster> <alise> oh god dammit bumpy road <-- I sure hope he has "disk head parks itself based on accelerometer"
16:09:06 <scarf> AnMaster: the Toshiba Satellite has an incredibly sensitive disk-parker
16:09:11 <AnMaster> scarf, oh?
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16:09:23 <scarf> it seems like every ten seconds it parks itself, then pops up a little dialog box to let you know it parked
16:09:29 <scarf> I'm not sure if it does that under Linux too, btw
16:09:32 <AnMaster> hm
16:09:40 <scarf> at least, no dialog box, so I don't know if it's parking
16:09:53 <AnMaster> scarf, for thinkpads it needs an user space daemon
16:10:05 <AnMaster> which is somewhat irritating as it causes rapid wakeups for polling
16:10:31 <AnMaster> I avoid using my thinkpad when moving instead. Always use it on a sturdy table
16:10:34 <scarf> anyway, he was on webchat, and therefore presumably Windows, and therefore using the autopark
16:11:06 <AnMaster> scarf, I guess that wasn't meant as a far fetched joke?
16:11:12 <scarf> no
16:11:15 <AnMaster> (autopark -> automobile park)
16:11:16 <scarf> I was being serious
16:11:18 <AnMaster> (and in a taxi)
16:11:35 <scarf> no pun intended; in fact, even after your explanation, I don't think there was a pun there
16:11:38 <hiato> anyone care to look at this and then provide some feedback as to how I'd make this language more self-complete, that is, you should be able to emulate (mostly) an arbitrary piece of the language with other pieces. that means you cant natively have if's, while's and so on, but I'm stuck on argument parsing to methods (though tecnically anonymous methods need not be there and would solve my problem)
16:11:45 <hiato> http://dpaste.com/168356/
16:11:46 <AnMaster> scarf, very far fetched one
16:12:10 * scarf looks
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16:13:36 <hiato> oh, and if you do look, ignore the code at the end, as that all depends on how arguments are parsed (if at all)
16:13:50 <scarf> hiato: wow, that's a confusing language
16:13:59 <hiato> :P
16:14:04 <scarf> I applaud you for not just making more BF-derivatives, like most people do
16:14:17 <hiato> I'll be happy to shed some light though
16:14:19 <hiato> thanks :)
16:14:22 * MissPiggy made one hates ipile
16:16:15 <AnMaster> hiato, for cell.(Q) better specify charset
16:16:45 <AnMaster> hiato, or would it use the native one? Say EBCDIC on such a machine?
16:17:31 <hiato> AnMaster: I'm not sure I understand what you mean? In this case, cell.(Q) is using Q as a literal, base 10 number
16:17:40 <hiato> cell.X, however, could be confusing
16:17:50 <AnMaster> hiato, so how does " "$()" is equivalent to 2369577 through this system" work?
16:17:57 <AnMaster> hiato, how is that encoded?
16:17:59 <AnMaster> ASCII?
16:18:04 <hiato> Heh, figured it was vague
16:18:04 <hiato> yep
16:18:08 <AnMaster> if so that should be explicitly mentioned
16:18:20 <hiato> encode as ASCII, then take those bytes as a standard number
16:18:27 <hiato> ok, thanks, will mark that
16:18:33 <AnMaster> hiato, why not UTF-8?
16:18:55 <AnMaster> hiato, otherwise how would you encode a cell named å←→µ
16:19:00 <hiato> For simplicity, really, but there is no real reason. Though, I guess it will also inflate the nubmers significantly
16:19:04 <hiato> true, fair enough
16:19:27 <AnMaster> hiato, for UTF-8, the lower 127 ASCII bytes would encode the same way
16:19:47 <AnMaster> only some other things, such as that example would encode larger
16:19:48 <hiato> though the argument could go that å##µ is merely a sequence of bytes that when grouped to the nearest 8 bits, would still yield a number that is unique for that string
16:19:52 <AnMaster> wait
16:19:57 <AnMaster> hm
16:20:01 <AnMaster> it would work in fact
16:20:12 <AnMaster> hiato, that wasn't ## in the middle
16:20:14 <AnMaster> that was like:
16:20:16 <AnMaster> <-->
16:20:33 <hiato> I know, but I forget what key makes those arrows :P
16:20:51 <hiato> and I'm currently not using a utf8 charset in xterm
16:20:59 <AnMaster> hiato, AltGr+[yUui]
16:21:26 <hiato> Ah, right
16:21:50 <hiato> (though still produces a #)
16:21:57 <AnMaster> hiato, yet you found å without iussues, which I thought was hard to type outside Scandinavia plus a few countries
16:23:09 <hiato> Colemak ;)
16:23:26 <AnMaster> mhm
16:24:43 <hiato> as for the language itself, while handy, do you think that the ability to parse Message -> Anonymous Method -> Destination is needed?
16:25:03 <AnMaster> hiato, what does that do
16:25:08 <AnMaster> I haven't read the whole spec
16:25:12 <hiato> if so, how would I implement a non-pattern matching scheme that can be replicatedwith non-anonymouse methods
16:25:17 <AnMaster> due to being somewhat tired
16:25:59 <hiato> right, "a b c" sends message "a" to cell or method "b" and then stores the result (or partial result, or whatever) in cell "c"
16:26:12 <AnMaster> hiato, what about threads
16:26:22 <AnMaster> hiato, you can do rather nice concurrency with message passing
16:26:31 <AnMaster> (see for example the non-esolang erlang)
16:26:58 <AnMaster> (which I used for more than one esolang interpreter)
16:26:58 <hiato> You do like this: $ su -> # rm -f /*
16:27:03 <cpressey> hiato: coincidentally, trying to make pattern matching work with anonymous (unnamed) object is currently what I'm thinking about
16:27:19 <AnMaster> cpressey, wrt. befunge-111?
16:27:21 <cpressey> I mean... it needs a name, so the pattern can match it, right?
16:27:28 <cpressey> Frustrating :)
16:27:34 <hiato> AnMaster: but seriously, I guess I could put it in, but it's besides the point
16:27:40 <hiato> cpressey: yeah, my predicament exactly
16:27:41 <cpressey> AnMaster: no.
16:27:45 <hiato> if you find a way, let me know
16:27:58 <AnMaster> hiato, just a suggestion, I don't know how well it would fit into things
16:28:00 <cpressey> No patterns in Befunge-111...
16:28:22 <AnMaster> cpressey, true. Unless someone goes and spec PATS or something
16:28:41 <AnMaster> (pattern matching befunge sounds horrible)
16:28:53 <AnMaster> well, there is REXP for posix extended regex
16:29:00 <AnMaster> and PCRE sounds like a nice fingerprint name I guess
16:29:06 <hiato> AnMaster: right, sure, I'm always open to suggestions, but before I make this super complex, I need to work out the message parsing
16:29:19 <AnMaster> hiato, right
16:31:30 <hiato> on the complete flip side, I've also come up with another system that is way way easier. It's ASM like, but only has the commands: XOR, SHR, SHL, JMP. No conditional jumps, no add and friends, but I suspect it's turing complete. Oh, and it only has four registers and can only operate on two bits at a time
16:32:22 <scarf> is the PC memory-mapped?
16:32:33 <scarf> oh, no, that's what JMP's for
16:32:38 <hiato> http://dpaste.com/168372/
16:32:40 <scarf> but presumably the program itself is memory-mapped
16:32:44 <hiato> nope
16:32:57 <scarf> hiato: have you seen the various OISCs?
16:32:59 <hiato> no self-modification
16:33:02 <hiato> scarf: yep
16:33:08 <hiato> but this is unlike them in every way
16:33:12 <hiato> there is no complex syntax
16:33:17 <hiato> or conditional logic
16:33:28 <hiato> or any logic except for XOR (which is not universal)
16:34:03 <hiato> but, through careful use of shifts and xors (and the clever trick of treating the registers as stacks), you can do all of what you need (I guess)
16:35:10 <scarf> hiato: ah, JMP is the unconditional computed jump, Malbolge-style
16:35:57 <hiato> Er, right
16:35:59 <hiato> yes
16:36:25 <hiato> the interesting thing is how to make it conditional
16:36:51 <hiato> "For example, "J 0,b" will
16:36:52 <hiato> jump back precisely one insruction iff. the IP is odd, otherwise
16:36:52 <hiato> forward one if the IP is even. You have been warned.
16:37:11 <hiato> makes it kind of fun, when using XOR's instead of fixed offsets
16:37:23 <scarf> it's possible to get by without any conditional jumps at all in a language
16:37:33 <scarf> by messing with arithmetic
16:37:41 <hiato> really?
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16:38:29 <scarf> yep; the idea is, say you have a /lot/ of variables
16:38:32 <hiato> do you have an example? but, in this case, there is no way of doing anything except applying various XOR masks, which, in this case suggest some ofrm of universitatility for XOR
16:38:45 <hiato> right
16:39:06 <scarf> then whenever you would do something, instead of b=a, you do something along the lines of b+=(a-b)*x
16:39:19 <scarf> where you can turn the command on and off by messing with the value of x
16:39:38 <scarf> that's the general principle; it would be interesting to see how few commands you can get away with
16:39:43 <hiato> Right, but in essence you then need to compute all posibilites and "filter" them
16:39:47 <scarf> yes
16:40:17 <scarf> also, if it turned out that your language was TC without computed jumps, you wouldn't need SHR either
16:40:23 <scarf> as instead, you could shift every other variable to the left
16:40:31 <scarf> and just ignore the bottom bit for the rest of the program
16:40:35 <scarf> as no command would care
16:40:42 <hiato> I see what you're saying
16:40:49 <hiato> which would be a godsend
16:41:11 <scarf> NAND is probably better than XOR for that sort of thing, as you can implement any other logical operation in terms of it
16:41:29 <hiato> Yeah, I knew that one, but that's what I wanted to avoid
16:41:35 <scarf> but I'm not sure if you could get by with just four variables then
16:41:38 <hiato> XOR is known to not be universal
16:41:46 <scarf> yep
16:41:58 <scarf> bceause it can't distinguish between 0 and 1
16:42:05 <hiato> but with (really) two other commands and just four (or in essence) two variables, it would be enough
16:42:17 <hiato> right
16:43:19 <hiato> well actually, going back, because it only operates on the bottom two bits, I would need to keep shr
16:44:36 <scarf> hmm, yes
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16:44:46 <hiato> and going back further, do you think it would be possible to write a programme in your a*(maybe 0) language that, without needing to evaluate all possibilities, could then write the bit that did need to?
16:44:53 <cpressey> Also, in certain models of computation, XOR is the most complex function possible
16:45:02 <cpressey> (monotone circuits)
16:45:16 <scarf> cpressey: it's annoying to implement even in hardware
16:45:22 <hiato> cpressey: well, I have it down for three transistors, two diodes and one resistor
16:45:31 <scarf> there's a reason people talk about NAND rather than NOR as universal, which is that you can do NAND with just the one transistor
16:45:46 <scarf> hiato: DTL is pretty much an abandoned logic format nowadays
16:45:49 <cpressey> Mixing transistors and diodes -- nice.
16:45:54 <hiato> not in my world :)
16:46:04 <scarf> I can't remember why, but it was suboptimal somehow
16:46:18 <cpressey> I imagine it takes a bit more power to drive
16:46:21 <hiato> yeah
16:46:24 <hiato> was jsut about to say
16:46:52 <hiato> as well as running into issues with a negative bias vs ground
16:47:11 <scarf> oh, it's slower, takes up more silicon space, and requires three power rails
16:47:19 <hiato> there we are
16:47:25 <scarf> the last isn't quite an idea-killer, but the first two are
16:47:37 <hiato> but, for a hobby project, i cant see the fuss
16:47:54 <AnMaster> what does DTL stand for?
16:48:02 <hiato> (which, might I add, is what SHI-3 is for, I wanted to build a RISC cpu)
16:48:10 <hiato> Diode-Transistor Logic
16:48:20 <AnMaster> ah
16:48:57 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: Lost terminal).
16:49:06 <scarf> hmm, it seems practical NAND gates need at least two transistors
16:50:01 <AnMaster> oh?
16:50:54 -!- hiato has joined.
16:51:10 <hiato> goddamn power failures
16:51:23 <hiato> keep tripping the router
16:51:28 * hiato kisses his ups
16:52:39 <AnMaster> hiato, you need to put the router out of where you walk then
16:52:46 <AnMaster> of of the way of*
16:53:00 <hiato> AnMaster: heh
16:53:19 <hiato> interesting: 08:48:57 --- quit: hiato (Quit: Lost terminal)
16:53:28 <hiato> what does that mean?
16:55:08 <scarf> hiato: it means that the terminal that the client was running in closed, or it thought it did
16:55:15 <scarf> it's likely the client's response to a SIGHUP
16:58:14 <hiato> ah, right, thanks
16:58:45 <augur> MissPiggy: noone needs an ifile.it account
16:59:06 <MissPiggy> augur, I made one
16:59:11 <augur> why?
16:59:13 <MissPiggy> it was quite difficult but I managed i
16:59:21 <MissPiggy> I had to, to steal a book from the internet
16:59:26 <augur> no you dont
17:02:01 -!- tombom has joined.
17:02:36 <MissPiggy> okay
17:02:43 <MissPiggy> I don't know how to do it without an account
17:02:50 -!- MaXo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
17:02:55 <augur> are you SEARCHING using ifileit?
17:02:59 <augur> or just downloading?
17:03:14 <MissPiggy> no
17:03:34 <augur> because if you search through gigapedia you dont need an ifileit account to download
17:03:47 <MissPiggy> augur: okdponafpdunoadpounyafpdunyofpdoun
17:03:53 <augur> wut
17:05:20 -!- rishi__ has joined.
17:05:34 <cpressey> That sounds like a good name for an esolang
17:09:48 -!- rishi__ has left (?).
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17:11:03 -!- scarf_ has changed nick to ais523.
17:12:33 -!- scarf has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
17:25:40 <Gregor> Anybody have any new suggestions for what I do with the domain name sibeli.us?
17:26:13 <cpressey> Prokofiev fan site
17:26:27 <Gregor> Ooooooh, burn to the S-man :P
17:28:54 <cpressey> Well, it was intended more as an act of dada, than as a burn.
17:30:12 <cpressey> But since you mention it, I've never cared for Sibelius much.
17:31:09 -!- oklokok has joined.
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17:33:54 -!- ais523 has changed nick to scarf.
17:34:45 <cpressey> And since I am open-minded, I'm listening to a Sibelius concerto via youtube right now.
17:35:54 -!- scarf has changed nick to ais523.
17:36:05 -!- tombom_ has joined.
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17:45:11 <cpressey> And it's not doing much for me.
17:45:15 <cpressey> Because I have taste.
17:45:16 <cpressey> OH
17:45:21 <cpressey> There's the burn.
17:46:29 <Gregor> A friend suggested a Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game
17:46:34 * cpressey notes that maxbru.ch is also available
17:46:53 <Gregor> Unfortunately, I'm not Ch(inese?)
17:47:01 <ais523> china's .cn
17:47:31 <Gregor> I'm not (reverse domain lookup of .ch)ish.
17:47:35 -!- oklokok has joined.
17:47:41 <Gregor> Swiss, apparently.
17:50:17 <Gregor> I wonder which language Swiss reduces to 'ch' in ...
17:51:09 <ais523> probably Swiss
17:51:20 <ais523> if they have a language of their own
17:52:08 <Gregor> I think there's some old native language nobody speaks there, but they usually speak German, French and/or Italian (?)
17:52:11 <cpressey> It stands for "Confoederatio Helvetica"
17:52:32 <cpressey> Which is, uh. Latin.
17:52:44 <ais523> dedicated to stamping out Arial!
17:52:52 <Gregor> cpressey: Oh, naturally :P
17:53:01 <cpressey> ais523: LOL.
17:53:16 <cpressey> And keep in mind, I never write "LOL" unless I actually laugh out loud.
17:53:22 <Gregor> And do you have to be Swiss to own a .ch domain, or can we actually get maxbru.ch?
17:53:47 <ais523> cpressey: yay, another sacred defender of the meaning of the acronym LOL!
17:54:04 <ais523> I hardly ever use it even if I do laugh out loud, because people wouldn't know what I meant
17:54:07 <Gregor> I generally use it that way, but I also laugh an embarrassing amount ...
17:54:21 <lament> I never write ROFL unless I actually roll on the floor laughing
17:54:27 <cpressey> ais523: *And*, I am in a cube at work, where it is currently pretty quiet.
17:54:34 <lament> and I never write IMHO unless my opinion is actually humble
17:54:41 <ais523> lament: I don't think I've ever rolled on the floor laughing
17:54:50 <Gregor> I never write lollercoptahs unless I have actually turned into an anthropomorphic laughing helicopter.
17:54:53 <lament> i might have
17:54:58 <MissPiggy> loooool
17:55:08 <cpressey> Gregor: trying very hard not to LOL.
17:55:13 <lament> anthropololic
17:56:08 <ais523> cpressey: same here
17:56:13 <ais523> and I would get in trouble for doing it in this office
17:56:22 <lament> a lolita is a small feminine lol
17:56:29 <MissPiggy> lol
17:56:44 <Gregor> lament: X-D
17:57:22 <pikhq> lament: Brilliance.
18:01:37 <cpressey> lament: Oh, so you never write IMHO at all then? :)
18:02:36 <ais523> I just use IMO, it's a lot more neutral
18:02:38 <Gregor> According to this bottle of Coke, I could win eighth notes, dollar signs or Tickets (with a capital 'T', because this is German)
18:02:40 <pikhq> cpressey: His opinions are not humble.
18:02:43 <ais523> IMHO/IMNSHO are just pretentious
18:02:56 <ais523> Gregor: is an eighth note 12.5¢?
18:02:56 <Gregor> IMHO, they are not pretentious.
18:03:01 <cpressey> pikhq: That was the implication, yes.
18:03:17 <pikhq> IMHO comes out a bit more naturally after studying Japanese.
18:03:27 <Gregor> Imm-ho
18:03:51 <cpressey> In my haughty opinion
18:04:01 <Gregor> In my naughty opinion
18:04:03 <pikhq> As do things like saying "probably" even when you're damned sure of something.
18:04:23 <Gregor> The Earth is probably round.
18:05:46 <pikhq> ... In sufficiently formal Japanese, that sentence would be said. 【お世界は丸そうでございます。」
18:06:01 <pikhq> ... s/【/「/
18:06:21 <lament> http://www.toxel.com/tech/2010/03/04/cool-water-powered-jet-pack/
18:06:23 <ais523> in Japanese, being impolite is grammatically incorrect, isn't it?
18:06:30 <pikhq> ais523: No.
18:06:45 <pikhq> The impolite form of that is 世界が丸そう。
18:06:50 <lament> ais523: politeness is meaningless if impoliteness is impossible
18:07:08 <AnMaster> <cpressey> And since I am open-minded, I'm listening to a Sibelius concerto via youtube right now. <-- always found Sibelius somewhat "heavy"
18:07:09 <pikhq> Erm.
18:07:12 <ais523> hmm
18:07:15 <pikhq> 世界が丸い。
18:07:34 <AnMaster> hm I can't really express what I mean in English
18:07:44 <Gregor> So yeah, I guess since nobody's made any useful suggestions, I'll be makin' that Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game
18:07:45 <pikhq> (literal translation of the polite sentence: The humble world, would appear to most humbly be round.)
18:07:53 <lament> ais523: the whole point of etiquette is that you're polite to your superiors, and they aren't polite to you
18:09:02 <oklokok> pikhq: after i give a rigorous proof for something, i often add "or something like that"
18:09:29 <Gregor> oklokok: What should I do with the domain name sibeli.us?
18:09:55 <ais523> Gregor: use it for the debonairly boorish fugues, etc
18:10:22 <pikhq> oklokok: Heheh.
18:11:10 <AnMaster> <ais523> IMHO/IMNSHO are just pretentious <-- I prefer IMPBPNHO
18:11:34 <AnMaster> (not really)
18:12:00 <oklokok> Gregor: are you a big fan of sib?
18:12:03 <Gregor> In my Peanut-Butter-Porn Not Humble Opinion
18:12:25 <Gregor> oklokok: I am a neutral-to-moderate fan of Sibelius.
18:12:43 <AnMaster> Gregor, I invoke rule 34 on that domain!
18:12:51 <Gregor> EWWWWW
18:12:52 <oklokok> i probably know much less about his works than you, i'm a bit patriotically challenged
18:12:53 <AnMaster> what have I done...
18:13:32 <Gregor> OK, Sibelius-themed Generic Music Idol Band Hero Game it is :P
18:13:46 <AnMaster> I just don't like his music. Too heavy and too melancholic
18:14:07 <Gregor> Then I'm sure you hate my music :P
18:14:21 <AnMaster> Gregor, not really, yours is somewhat technically interesting
18:14:27 <AnMaster> Sibelius is not
18:14:35 <AnMaster> Gregor, if it wasn
18:14:58 <AnMaster> wasn't* for the technical interesting parts of Liszt and Paganini I wouldn't really like those
18:15:02 <AnMaster> as it is, I do like them
18:15:19 <lament> same reason i like your mom
18:15:31 <Gregor> ... wow.
18:15:43 <AnMaster> lament, I can't think of any snappy reply to that one...
18:16:01 <Gregor> "Your mom is technically interesting" is ... maybe not an insult? Idonno.
18:16:18 <AnMaster> Gregor, I have no clue
18:16:23 <AnMaster> I don't like it either way I think
18:16:25 <cpressey> For the same reasons that I'm not a fan of his music, he makes a good subject for an Orchestra Hero game or whatever
18:16:44 <AnMaster> cpressey, yeah, I would hate to see Kraus or Mozart subjected to that
18:16:44 <Gregor> cpressey: Now that's actually a compelling argument ...
18:16:49 <AnMaster> Or Vivaldi
18:17:08 <AnMaster> Gregor, so do you like Sibelius or not?
18:17:52 <Gregor> I am a neutral-to-moderate fan of Sibelius. His music is not amongst the somewhat small selection I listen to regularly, because I don't like him enough for that, but he's well over the dislike line.
18:18:32 <Gregor> Can't a guy have neutral opinions around here? P
18:18:33 <Gregor> *:P
18:19:26 <lament> maybe he can.
18:19:41 <lament> but then again, maybe not. It doesn't really matter.
18:19:47 <lament> imo
18:19:49 -!- Gregor has set topic: "Gwandocu (n): Extremely strong evidence, far beyond a reasonable doubt." | alise sighting counter currently out of sequence | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
18:20:12 <AnMaster> Gregor, what about Schönberg?
18:20:17 <AnMaster> it sounds like the thing you would like
18:20:34 <Gregor> I don't have a mental picture of his music off-hand, so Idonno.
18:20:47 <Gregor> And there is no .rg as far as I know anyway ;)
18:20:49 <AnMaster> Gregor, disharmonic
18:21:00 <AnMaster> Gregor, 12 tone scale and all that
18:21:24 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-tone_technique
18:21:53 <Gregor> pdqba.ch is available :P
18:22:03 <AnMaster> Gregor, yeargh
18:22:11 <AnMaster> Gregor, is there .rt?
18:22:16 <AnMaster> moza.rt
18:22:21 <AnMaster> vival.di?
18:22:22 <Gregor> Already checked.
18:22:27 <AnMaster> Gregor, hay.dn?
18:22:40 <AnMaster> Gregor, hand.el?
18:22:40 <Gregor> Besides, these names are all too famous, they'd certainly have been bought.
18:23:08 <Gregor> Also, most national domains have restrictions with regards to citizenship :P
18:23:21 <Gregor> Which has the amusing effect that a Finn can't actually own the domain sibeli.us :P
18:23:28 <AnMaster> kra.us (please don't do something bad with it. Joseph Martin Kraus is my all time favourite composer!)
18:23:46 <AnMaster> Gregor, ^
18:23:53 <Gregor> AnMaster: Squatted
18:24:01 <AnMaster> mhm
18:26:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, beethov.en?
18:26:11 <AnMaster> is that a valid tld?
18:26:34 <Gregor> Doesn't eem to be.
18:26:37 <Gregor> *seem
18:26:42 <lament> poser.com
18:26:45 <Gregor> They would probably avoid it because people would think it was England.
18:26:49 <AnMaster> Gregor, schuma.nn !
18:26:57 <AnMaster> Gregor, I really think his music is boring
18:27:09 <Gregor> The great nation of Nnonninnonn
18:27:11 <AnMaster> sure, quite okay, but nothing really interesting
18:27:11 <ais523> over here in England, we know that England doesn't have a TLD to itself
18:27:24 <AnMaster> Gregor, it could be Netherlands or something...
18:27:29 <Gregor> Because England wurves Scotland, Wales and North Ireland so much :P
18:27:43 <Gregor> Also Gibraltar and the Island of Mann if I recall
18:28:30 <Gregor> Nope, wrong on all regards :P
18:28:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, what about those two small islands in the English channel?
18:28:37 <Gregor> Spelling, TLD, membership in the UK :P
18:28:47 <hiato> .ski? or .ki?
18:29:05 <AnMaster> okay .ski would be a nice TLD
18:29:10 <Gregor> The only three-letter TLDs are the US ones and the generic ones, so you'd know it if it existed :P
18:29:15 <AnMaster> imagine: imperative.ski
18:29:20 <AnMaster> XD
18:29:24 <hiato> bugger
18:29:33 <AnMaster> hiato, ?
18:29:42 <hiato> AnMaster, ?
18:29:50 <AnMaster> why bugger
18:30:00 <AnMaster> hiato, you gave us a great idea in the TLD discussion
18:30:00 <hiato> I wanted tchaikov.ski
18:30:03 <AnMaster> ah
18:30:03 <hiato> (yaeh, I know)
18:30:04 <AnMaster> :/
18:30:25 <hiato> or ru.ski
18:30:29 <AnMaster> har
18:31:09 <AnMaster> Gregor, btw .nu fills the same function in Sweden as .to does in English speaking countries (not exact same meaning, but equal large interest in it)
18:31:19 <AnMaster> (sv:nu = en:now)
18:31:40 <lament> net means no in russian
18:31:54 <AnMaster> mhm
18:31:55 <lament> several sites use that, like "no cockroaches" and "no beer"
18:32:23 <hiato> I'm sure it's spelled differently though, isn't it pronounced "nyet"?
18:32:58 <hiato> and, in Afrikaans/Dutch(German?) net means only
18:33:03 <lament> nʲet in IPA, net in translit
18:33:09 <hiato> right
18:33:26 <lament> er, the vowel in IPA is wrong i'm sure, i don't really know it
18:33:59 <hiato> well, neither do I, so you're right no matter what
18:34:55 <hiato> AnMaster: it must be said that I only got the .ski joke now, wow, completely unintended on my behalf :P
18:35:26 <AnMaster> heh
18:35:33 <Gregor> .ki are $900/year
18:35:36 <hiato> but nicely played
18:35:51 * hiato is speechless, but can still make the occasional /me
18:36:00 <AnMaster> I wonder what imperative SKI calculus would be like though
18:36:18 <AnMaster> ais523, sounds like something for you to design ^
18:36:20 <AnMaster> ;)
18:36:44 <ais523> maybe
18:36:49 <hiato> heh, a = s k k "hello"
18:36:50 <hiato> print a
18:36:55 <ais523> SKI calculus can be pretty imperative as-is, though
18:36:58 <hiato> fairly pointless
18:37:14 <AnMaster> ais523, hm. What about imperative lambda calculus then?
18:37:25 <ais523> sa,e
18:37:26 <ais523> *same
18:37:28 <hiato> python
18:37:32 <AnMaster> Imperative haskell would of course beat most things to "bad idea of year"
18:37:41 <AnMaster> hiato, declarative python!
18:37:44 <ais523> you can compile imperative to haskell easily
18:37:51 <AnMaster> ais523, hm
18:37:51 <ais523> if you couldn't, it wouldn't really be powerful enough to be useful
18:38:02 <hiato> AnMaster: as if it wasn't chock full of similarly bad ideas :P
18:38:03 <ais523> admittedly, it usually isn't the best way to write it, but you can if you want to
18:38:14 <AnMaster> hiato, I don't think going
18:38:27 <AnMaster> *going "up" the scale is wrong
18:38:32 <AnMaster> well it could be
18:38:46 <AnMaster> but not necessarily so
18:38:55 <hiato> Heh, [citation needed]
18:39:01 <hiato> ;)
18:40:04 <AnMaster> huh?
18:40:39 <hiato> Never mind, to much wiki for meh brains today
18:40:49 <AnMaster> hiato, of course it would need proper language support. And not be like that "lambdas in C" hack that pikhq did
18:40:55 <AnMaster> pikhq, link to it now again?
18:42:18 <hiato> Lambdas in C? Coincidentally, I have just discovered a marvellous little proof that no god can exist, written in CLambda, which this magin is too narrow to contain
18:42:37 <AnMaster> hiato, it was done with some macros + gnu extensions
18:42:49 <AnMaster> hiato, closures too btw
18:43:15 <AnMaster> iirc it used two gcc extensions: nested functions and statement expressions
18:43:20 <hiato> I cannot believe waht I'm hearing
18:43:42 <AnMaster> hiato, then wait for pikhq to get here, he is in some US timezone
18:43:47 <AnMaster> (iirc)
18:43:50 <hiato> but, I take it, strict evaluation
18:44:03 <AnMaster> hiato, ?
18:44:46 <hiato> as in, writing any lambda expression would be evaluated immeditaely/reduced, irrespecive of whether it was further refernced or applied?
18:45:14 * hiato asks that all further typos be excused
18:45:37 <hiato> as the way I see it, it's a macro, so it just reduced to some convoluted mess of C code that would execute
18:45:44 <AnMaster> hiato, I don't know
18:45:45 <pikhq> AnMaster: Urgh. No no no no.
18:45:51 <AnMaster> pikhq, why not? I want to see it
18:45:58 <hiato> so do I
18:46:01 <pikhq> It's a pain to paste.
18:46:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, why not just push a hg repo or whatever with it
18:46:14 <AnMaster> somewhere
18:46:18 <pikhq> No hosting.
18:46:22 <hiato> So send meh ur computerz thro teh interwebz
18:46:29 <AnMaster> pikhq, bzr + launchpad? ;P
18:46:41 <hiato> github is free for minor stuff, no?
18:46:45 <pikhq> Just a sec while I tar it up.
18:46:50 <hiato> yaya
18:46:50 <AnMaster> hiato, but that requires git -_-
18:47:01 <hiato> Am I missing something?
18:47:31 <AnMaster> hiato, yes perhaps: that I think git is the worst dvcs when it comes to user interface.
18:47:38 <hiato> ah, so this is one of those places that hg >> bza >> svn >> cvs == True
18:47:44 <AnMaster> bzr is just so much easier to use
18:47:48 <AnMaster> hiato, personally I'm a bzr fan
18:47:53 <AnMaster> and what on earth is bza?
18:47:53 <hiato> darcs?
18:47:58 <AnMaster> hiato, try ais523 for that
18:47:59 <hiato> *bzr
18:48:10 <hiato> I must say I like hg
18:48:12 <AnMaster> hiato, he uses darcs for c-intercal
18:48:15 <AnMaster> hiato, hg isn't too bad
18:48:27 <AnMaster> it is just git that I have major trouble with
18:48:29 <hiato> wow, what an elaborate way to waste time
18:48:36 <hiato> fair enough
18:48:37 <AnMaster> hiato, what is?
18:48:42 <ais523> I'm a darcs fan
18:48:48 <hiato> darcs <- c-intercal
18:48:51 <AnMaster> hiato, oh and rcs. But I rarely run into it
18:48:51 <pikhq> http://filebin.ca/septw/ski.tar.gz
18:48:56 <hiato> rcs?
18:48:59 <pikhq> There's my SKI interpreter.
18:49:11 <ais523> it even manages to beat bzr at user interface, and the model is a lot better
18:49:12 <pikhq> Compile with gcc *.c -lgc
18:49:14 <hiato> I like it too ais523, but hg wins over for me
18:49:14 <AnMaster> pikhq, why not compile SKI to C with it?
18:49:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, using just a simple converter
18:49:26 <hiato> Ohoho, interperter?
18:49:26 <pikhq> AnMaster: Didn't bother is all.
18:49:38 -!- MaXo2 has joined.
18:49:57 * AnMaster stores that in ~/irc/esoteric/pikhq
18:50:08 <pikhq> Oh, right. I had been working on making it into a proper Lazy K interpreter.
18:50:19 <AnMaster> hiato, lambda.h is the file you want to read
18:50:29 <AnMaster> iirc
18:50:35 <pikhq> Yeah.
18:50:41 <AnMaster> and closure.h
18:50:48 <AnMaster> hm
18:50:49 <AnMaster> no
18:51:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, what is xgc.h?
18:51:09 <hiato> so pikhq, you implement lambda and ski?
18:51:15 <hiato> ah, I was reading main
18:51:17 <AnMaster> pikhq, and why does it contain nohup.out?
18:51:18 <pikhq> ... Declares xgc_malloc.
18:51:26 <AnMaster> the tarball
18:51:28 <pikhq> AnMaster: Uh.
18:51:31 <pikhq> Accident.
18:51:34 <AnMaster> cat nohup.out
18:51:34 <AnMaster> Sun VirtualBox Headless Interface 3.1.4_OSE
18:51:34 <AnMaster> (C) 2008-2010 Sun Microsystems, Inc.
18:51:34 <AnMaster> All rights reserved.
18:51:36 <AnMaster> wonderful
18:52:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, how does one compile this?
18:52:01 <pikhq> hiato: It's some pretty horrifying code.
18:52:03 <AnMaster> there is no makefile
18:52:11 <pikhq> AnMaster: gcc *.c -lgc
18:52:21 <hiato> pikhq, although I can barely make the outline of how you've done this, I am impressed
18:52:52 <hiato> and only two warnings :)
18:52:53 <pikhq> hiato: It's pretty easy. I implement Lazy K's semantics naively.
18:53:03 <pikhq> :)
18:53:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, btw do not try it with -pedantic
18:53:15 * hiato goes to do some research
18:53:29 <AnMaster> $ gcc -pedantic -std=gnu99 *.c -lgc -Wall -Wextra 2>&1 | grep warning | wc -l
18:53:29 <AnMaster> 132
18:53:54 <AnMaster> (resulted in errors without that -std=gnu99)
18:53:55 <hiato> nice
18:54:02 <pikhq> Yes, -pedantic warns about every single GNU extension.
18:54:05 <AnMaster> (I guess gnu89 could have worked too, didn't try it)
18:54:15 <pikhq> And this code is mostly GNU extensions.\
18:54:17 <AnMaster> $ gcc -std=gnu99 *.c -lgc -Wall -Wextra 2>&1 | grep warning | wc -l
18:54:18 <AnMaster> 16
18:54:20 * Gregor always uses -ansi -pedantic >:)
18:54:21 <AnMaster> a lot of those too
18:54:42 <AnMaster> Gregor, I use <wait a bit, need to check what cfunge actually uses>
18:55:10 <Gregor> cplof's test cases fail if it doesn't build with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic -DFAKE_JUMPS
18:55:14 <pikhq> Also, note that the definition of lambdas here could easily *break at any time*. Those functions are not guaranteed to exist by the GCC documentation.
18:55:22 <AnMaster> -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra -pedantic -Wwrite-strings -Wcast-align -Wcast-qual -Wbad-function-cast -Wstrict-prototypes -Wmissing-prototypes -Wmissing-declarations -Wold-style-definition -Wredundant-decls -Wnested-externs -Wdeclaration-after-statement -Wshadow -Wundef -Wpacked -Wfloat-equal -Wstrict-aliasing=2 -Wformat=2 -Wmissing-noreturn -Wmissing-format-attribute -Winit-self -Wunsafe-loop-optimizations -
18:55:22 <AnMaster> Wmissing-include-dirs -Wunused-parameter -Wunused-function -Wunused-label -Wunused-value -Wunused-variable -Wimplicit -Wparentheses -Wpointer-arith -fno-math-errno -fno-trapping-math
18:55:24 <AnMaster> Gregor, there !
18:55:39 <AnMaster> that excludes some -D
18:55:42 <Gregor> AnMaster: Do you know what -Wall means?
18:55:50 <pikhq> (it claims that the functions are entirely on the stack. In reality, the trampoline that GCC compiles if needed is on the stack.)
18:55:50 <AnMaster> Gregor, XD
18:55:58 <pikhq> Gregor: -Wall does not enable all warning.
18:56:00 <pikhq> Erm. Warnings.
18:56:11 <pikhq> Though I'm pretty sure he has redundancy going there.
18:56:18 <AnMaster> pikhq, not for old gcc versions
18:56:24 <AnMaster> pikhq, I support down to gcc 3.4
18:56:32 <hiato> why?
18:56:41 <AnMaster> pikhq, it checks which ones are supported by the compiler
18:56:45 <pikhq> Mmm.
18:56:49 <Gregor> Maybe I should add -Wextra to cplof's test case :P
18:56:52 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes this yeilds some redundancy, but nothing to worry about
18:57:55 <AnMaster> Gregor, I would strongly recommend at least -pedantic -Wall -Wextra -Wformat=2 -Wwrite-strings
18:58:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, defines include: -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200112L -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600
18:59:33 <AnMaster> Gregor, I'm unlikely to switch to POSIX 2008 yet
18:59:42 <AnMaster> but that might happen before I drop gcc 3.4 support
19:01:01 <Gregor> -Wextra includes warnings for unused PARAMETERS
19:01:04 <Gregor> That's completely stupid
19:01:08 <AnMaster> Gregor, no
19:01:11 <AnMaster> I find that useful
19:01:25 <Gregor> I write dozens of functions that are compatible with a single interface.
19:01:26 <AnMaster> Gregor, I use an attribute for the three or so cases where I actually want it to be unused
19:01:36 <AnMaster> Gregor, well add -Wno-unused-parameters then
19:01:38 <AnMaster> (iirc)
19:01:45 <AnMaster> (not sure about the exact spelling)
19:01:53 <AnMaster> (check your local man gcc)
19:02:07 <Gregor> I'm gonna stick with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic :P
19:02:15 <Gregor> Incidentally, I also compile with OpenWatcom for 32-bit DOS.
19:02:22 <AnMaster> Gregor, -Wwrite-strings!
19:02:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, that makes sure you don't do things like:
19:02:35 <Gregor> I don't even use any bloody strings :P
19:02:40 <AnMaster> char* foo = "bar";
19:02:46 <AnMaster> mkstemp(foo);
19:03:03 <AnMaster> (you need to have it writable for there)
19:03:14 <AnMaster> (besides, proper const usage helps the optimiser)
19:05:06 <AnMaster> <hiato> why? <-- why what?
19:05:37 <Gregor> In actuality, the real problem with -Wwrite-strings for cplof is that I cast everything into unsigned char *, and casting away constness explicitly is presumably still considered "OK"
19:05:52 <AnMaster> Gregor, there is another warning for that
19:06:03 <AnMaster> Gregor, -Wcast-qual I think
19:07:22 <AnMaster> Gregor, anyway I find that set of warnings very nice for cfunge.
19:08:01 <hiato> AnMaster: never mind, it was a way back, and thanks to the wonders of lag, in the wrong place
19:08:24 <AnMaster> * Ping reply from hiato: 2.20 second(s) <-- bad, but not excessively so
19:11:53 <hiato> Heh, nice touch
19:12:04 -!- dev_squid has joined.
19:12:06 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/op12/GRegor-op12-wipp2.ogg , lest I never mentioned it here >_>
19:13:15 <hiato> AnMaster: it was for pikhq, when he said the definition could break at any time, and my log shows: 20:52 < pikhq> Also, note that the ..... 20:53 < hiato> why?
19:13:21 <hiato> so within the margin of error :P
19:14:15 <dev_squid> Hi guys.
19:14:37 <AnMaster> Gregor, "wipp"?
19:14:43 <hiato> Greetings from beyond the /dev/null
19:14:44 <Gregor> Work In Progress Preview
19:15:02 <AnMaster> Gregor, should name it op12.-2 or such
19:15:08 <AnMaster> (clc-intercal style)
19:15:29 <Gregor> My original naming convention was beta 1, beta 2 etc, but somebody pointed out justly that that's a bit computery for music :P
19:15:40 <AnMaster> hiato, aargh did someone fill the bit bucket now again?
19:15:43 <Gregor> Especially for music which is relatively acoustic.
19:16:11 <AnMaster> Gregor, I don't see anything wrong with it
19:16:21 <Gregor> Yeah, but you're a person on #esoteric :P
19:16:59 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta#Common_uses <-- template fail
19:17:01 <AnMaster> -_-
19:17:32 <Gregor> AnMaster: That template is in beta.
19:18:33 <AnMaster> augh
19:19:07 <hiato> AnMaster: what does that mean?
19:22:20 <AnMaster> hiato, what bit?
19:22:25 <AnMaster> "augh"?
19:22:42 <hiato> heh, did someone fill the bit bucket now again?
19:23:03 <AnMaster> hiato, oh that. ask ais523 he can explain it and I'm somewhat busy
19:23:08 <hiato> s/,/"/ and s/$/"/
19:23:21 <hiato> ah, right
19:23:21 <AnMaster> or see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bit_bucket
19:23:47 <hiato> kthnx,srydood.srsly
19:26:19 <AnMaster> Gregor, I like that op12-wipp2 around 10:58-11:30 especially!
19:26:35 * AnMaster hasn't finished listening to it yet
19:28:06 <hiato> Gregor: what do you compose with?
19:28:27 <AnMaster> Gregor, is this recorded or synthed?
19:28:33 <AnMaster> if synthed, what soundfont
19:28:48 <AnMaster> hiato, unless I misremember: rosegarden
19:29:06 <hiato> Right
19:29:15 <hiato> I must be the only kiddy who plays with lmms
19:29:20 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:29:28 <AnMaster> hiato, what is lmms?
19:29:39 <AnMaster> hiato, rosegarden is FOSS in case you didn't know
19:30:00 <hiato> Naah, I did. Linux Multimedia Studio
19:30:06 <hiato> *MultiMedia
19:30:09 <hiato> or something
19:30:10 * AnMaster used rosegaden a bit.
19:30:16 <Gregor> AnMaster: It is recorded and synthed :P
19:30:18 <AnMaster> the real PITA is jack
19:30:19 <Gregor> In that I have a digital piano.
19:30:23 <AnMaster> Gregor, ah
19:30:27 <hiato> I haven't actually tried a midi tracker
19:30:31 <AnMaster> Gregor, not recorded with a mic then
19:30:35 <Gregor> No.
19:30:45 <AnMaster> hiato, tracker is wrong word for what I use rosegraden for at least
19:31:05 <AnMaster> Gregor, what soundfont though?
19:31:34 <Gregor> Steinway IMIS or something like that, one sec.
19:32:29 <hiato> AnMaster, what would you call it?
19:32:35 <Gregor> ftp://musix.ourproject.org/pub/musix/sf2/Steinway_IMIS2.2/Steinway_IMIS2.2.sf2.bz2
19:32:43 <AnMaster> Gregor, free?
19:32:55 <Gregor> Quite
19:33:08 <AnMaster> Gregor, was it the one where ehird commented upon the silly site header?
19:33:21 <Gregor> No :P
19:33:27 <Gregor> AFAIK this one exists only in ftp, no web site.
19:33:31 <AnMaster> ah
19:33:39 <AnMaster> Gregor, so is this one better or worse in your opinion
19:33:44 <Gregor> Better.
19:33:45 <Gregor> Much.
19:33:49 <Gregor> It is a truly outstanding soundfont.
19:33:50 <AnMaster> Gregor, also what tool do you use for the actual synthing?
19:33:55 <Gregor> fluidsynth
19:33:57 <hiato> AnMaster: I made this today as a tribute to 8bp, using lmms: did someone fill the bit bucket now again?
19:34:05 <hiato> yugh, wrong clipboard
19:34:06 <AnMaster> Gregor, hm I never got that to work reliably
19:34:10 <hiato> http://www.mediafire.com/?zgmc4dlmcnl
19:34:16 <Gregor> fluidsynth is hugely buggy and terrible.
19:34:20 <Gregor> But when it does work, it's quite nice :P
19:34:26 <AnMaster> Gregor, how do you use it them
19:34:27 <AnMaster> then*
19:34:58 <AnMaster> hiato, how do I actually access the file from there? There is no download link as far as I can see here in w3m
19:34:59 <Gregor> AnMaster: For just piano it's quite simple: fluidsynth -l -F output.wav my.sf2 my.mid
19:35:10 <AnMaster> hm
19:35:21 <AnMaster> Gregor, that download is slow:
19:35:23 <AnMaster> 0% [ ] 110 880 --.-K/s eta 5h 42m
19:35:25 <AnMaster> Gregor, ^
19:35:25 <AnMaster> :(
19:35:31 <cpressey> hiato: you should title it "did someone fill the bit bucket now again?"
19:35:43 <hiato> er, AnMaster, i think it needs js
19:35:48 <Gregor> AnMaster: I have no control of that download site :P
19:35:51 <hiato> cpressey: that is oddly appropriate
19:35:51 <AnMaster> hiato, I don't do js
19:36:05 <hiato> well, I can't think of another host atm
19:36:10 <AnMaster> Gregor, care to put your local copy somewhere I can get it reasonably soon?
19:36:21 <hiato> AnMaster: http://download568.mediafire.com/bmxwgiuhbz1g/zgmc4dlmcnl/new_maybe.ogg
19:36:23 <Gregor> Fleh
19:36:27 <AnMaster> Gregor, thanks
19:36:31 <hiato> maybe my session is valid for you
19:36:43 <AnMaster> hiato, seems to work
19:36:55 <hiato> :)
19:37:24 <hiato> arg, wait, it can't be working
19:37:36 <AnMaster> hiato, oh?
19:37:59 <AnMaster> hiato, is 3107b155456ce6cc6e811df2ff78a59989a9f2eae38b4b7a70f7a124ab0a55d2e9b4e0763ce037008b9580c162c189a63b58fdfc2346f80f6890c76dbda99b35 the correct sha512sum?
19:38:04 <hiato> yeah, the file doesn't exist (wrong title), so I donno what it's givin you
19:38:16 <hiato> AnMaster: http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg
19:38:17 <Gregor> AnMaster: Query
19:38:20 <hiato> lemme check
19:38:50 <AnMaster> hiato, gave me a html file http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg
19:38:53 <AnMaster> at that one
19:39:00 <hiato> wha?
19:39:41 <hiato> http://download732.mediafire.com/y1nmiltmhndg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg ?
19:39:52 <hiato> That's the only link I can get
19:40:08 <AnMaster> hiato, gives me the download page
19:40:18 <AnMaster> hiato, but was the sha512sum correct?
19:40:51 <hiato> b9004fc3e3d9d3009ad6f58b8669fb1f897dd2e4097aac1fb4b65310d8bc80756e9eda2c6b4178137b3e71fd809941630266335d4ee4a145de8928d5d08fa645
19:40:58 <hiato> doesn't look right
19:41:03 <hiato> mediafire = fail
19:41:16 <hiato> they gave you a file that, according to my log, was deleted last year
19:41:25 <hiato> new_maybe.ogg?
19:42:28 <hiato> let me try once more
19:43:57 <AnMaster> hiato, why not filebin?
19:44:18 <hiato> didn't know about it
19:44:48 <hiato> dot org/ca?
19:45:02 <hiato> ok, one more try if you don't mind: http://download732.mediafire.com/rw9smzsgbztg/qwnwkqt1ynn/lmms_1.ogg
19:46:04 <AnMaster> hiato, .ca is the one I usually use
19:46:12 <AnMaster> hiato, seems to work
19:46:17 <hiato> finally
19:46:18 <AnMaster> well, hasn't finished downloading yet
19:46:56 <AnMaster> hiato, b9004fc3e3d9d3009ad6f58b8669fb1f897dd2e4097aac1fb4b65310d8bc80756e9eda2c6b4178137b3e71fd809941630266335d4ee4a145de8928d5d08fa645?
19:47:02 <hiato> heh, well, mediafire's sessions aren't supposed to be this abused. I had to track down the response to activate the download and kill it, then I guess the id was left open
19:47:07 <hiato> yep
19:47:08 <hiato> :)
19:47:24 <AnMaster> hiato, square waves?
19:47:41 <hiato> tribute to 8BP ;)
19:47:47 <hiato> 8bitpeoples.com
19:48:06 * AnMaster sends the hospital bill to hiato for this
19:48:26 <AnMaster> hiato, I have nothing against things like SID, but this is not like that
19:48:29 <hiato> haha, it's not that bad, surely
19:48:32 <AnMaster> this is too square wave
19:48:48 <AnMaster> hiato, the melody isn't bad. I just can't stand square waves
19:48:53 <AnMaster> sinus for me please
19:48:56 <hiato> ah, right
19:49:09 <hiato> soory, I tend to like them actually
19:49:12 <hiato> in fact, quite a bit
19:49:28 <hiato> but, I have very instrumenty stuff too, just decided to experiment
19:50:04 <AnMaster> hiato, I'm perfectly fine with things like SID when it doesn't try to sound much more than what it is
19:50:25 <AnMaster> hiato, I like classical music and some baroque
19:50:31 <AnMaster> mostly viola/violin music
19:50:35 <AnMaster> some other too
19:51:04 <hiato> Ok, fair enough. Well, to be honest the square wave you hate so much I bent out of a SID emulator
19:51:07 <AnMaster> (Vivaldi is probably number two all time favourite after Kraus)
19:51:24 <AnMaster> hiato, sure, but C64 games tend to not use it quite like that
19:51:30 <hiato> right, well, I do appreciate the odd violin piece, but I'm much more orchestral
19:51:51 <AnMaster> hiato, chamber music for me :)
19:51:55 <hiato> medelhsonn etc
19:52:00 <Gregor> Borodiiiiiiin!
19:52:01 <hiato> Oh noes! not chamber music
19:52:06 <hiato> yugh
19:52:07 <AnMaster> hiato, why not?
19:52:36 <AnMaster> Gregor, why....
19:52:45 <Gregor> Because Borodin is awesome?
19:52:50 <AnMaster> Kraus!
19:52:54 <Gregor> BORODIN!
19:52:55 <hiato> I just cant stand it. There are a couple of things that I cant stand. Chamber music, water music, most baroque, handel, bach
19:53:03 <AnMaster> Gregor, have you listened much to Kraus at all?
19:53:04 <hiato> Tchaikovsky! Prokofiev!
19:53:11 <AnMaster> He was a true genius
19:53:13 <Gregor> AnMaster: A bit, not much, but it's been a while :P
19:53:20 <Gregor> Balakirev! Rimsky-Korsakov!
19:53:36 * pikhq adds Led Zeppelin to the discussion
19:53:38 <hiato> Gregor has good taste
19:53:40 <AnMaster> hiato, Gregor: all the ones you mention (up until Gregor's last line) are fairly well known ones
19:53:51 <AnMaster> Kraus is sadly not so well known
19:54:19 <hiato> yes
19:54:21 <AnMaster> buy the complete set from your local Naxos branch today!
19:54:42 -!- dougx has joined.
19:54:43 <fizzie> I think Rimsky-Korsokov was used as a curse word in at least the Finnish translation of Bored of the Rings.
19:54:50 <AnMaster> hiato, or at least listen to his C sharp minor sinfonia on youtube
19:54:56 <AnMaster> hiato, movement 3 especially
19:55:03 <AnMaster> that is the best music I ever listened to
19:55:07 <hiato> but I also like holst
19:55:15 <AnMaster> and on second place comes third movement from Vivaldi's summer
19:55:19 <AnMaster> when played fast
19:55:21 <hiato> goddamn delayed comment
19:55:24 * Sgeo can't believe he's actually reorganizing his bookmarks
19:55:32 <Gregor> Holst???
19:55:35 <Gregor> Pfff
19:55:39 <Gregor> Nine-hit wonder.
19:55:57 <Gregor> Swap him out for Elgar.
19:55:59 <hiato> haha
19:56:06 <AnMaster> Now Elgar is quite okay to listen to
19:56:14 <AnMaster> but not one of the things that you actually go "wow" over
19:56:17 <hiato> Haven't heard enough of him to decide -> indifference
19:56:19 * Sgeo is in love with Chrome's bookmark manager
19:56:34 <AnMaster> while Kraus and Vivaldi are in the "wow, wow, wow" category
19:56:59 <Gregor> PACHELBEL
19:57:03 <Gregor> *stabs self*
19:57:09 <lament> aargh stop talking about music
19:57:12 <AnMaster> Gregor, yes, except that music is badly overused
19:57:15 <cpressey> Thank you for saving me the effort, Gregor
19:57:17 <hiato> Now, I forget what this guy's name was, but he did the Gymnopédie and Gnossienne and I love it
19:57:22 <AnMaster> lament, there is esolang music too
19:57:27 <cpressey> hiato: Satie
19:57:29 <AnMaster> hiato, Satie?
19:57:30 <cpressey> <3 Satie
19:57:33 -!- dev_squid has joined.
19:57:33 <hiato> yes!
19:57:35 <lament> AnMaster: aaargh
19:57:37 <AnMaster> hiato, I quite like Satie
19:57:54 <AnMaster> lament, there is some esolangs that takes midi as input iirc
19:58:05 <cpressey> Prokofiev is my absolute favorite.
19:58:13 <Sgeo> Hm, why do I have a link to a page on /b/ in here? Did I forget that /b/ links tend to die?
19:58:38 <AnMaster> cpressey, from what I remember, it is quite... heavy and... "pompöst" (no clue what this is in English)
19:58:41 <hiato> and, ofc, who can deny the schindlers list theme
19:58:46 <lament> aaaargh
19:58:57 <Gregor> AnMaster: "Pompous"
19:59:03 <Gregor> (Presumably)
19:59:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, ah
19:59:09 <AnMaster> well yeah
19:59:12 <lament> satie can go suck it, fuck you for writing music without bar lines
19:59:16 <AnMaster> same goes for Borodin
19:59:19 <lament> what a jerk really
19:59:27 <AnMaster> and *definitely* for Sibelius
19:59:51 <Gregor> OK, how 'bout Ravel then hyuk hyuk
19:59:53 <cpressey> Sibelius sounds like an old man wandering around a house with no idea what he's looking for.
19:59:57 <AnMaster> Gregor, the Swedish word has a negative connotation
20:00:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, does the English "Pompous" have that?
20:00:11 <Gregor> AnMaster: The English word has negative connotation.
20:00:12 <hiato> Gregor: Ravel ftw! too bad he only had one real hit
20:00:14 <AnMaster> right
20:00:15 <hiato> and bizet
20:00:21 <AnMaster> Gregor, Ravel is all right
20:00:24 <AnMaster> but also overplayed
20:00:28 <AnMaster> and not balancedly so
20:00:28 <Gregor> Bizet only had one opera worth of hits :P
20:00:37 <AnMaster> I quite like some of Ravel's other music
20:00:40 <hiato> Quality>quantity
20:00:45 <AnMaster> also Bizet just wrote operas didn't he?
20:00:56 <AnMaster> at least I hardly remember what he wrote
20:01:00 <AnMaster> and I don't like operas
20:01:09 <AnMaster> (guess if I hate or hate wagner?)
20:01:13 <cpressey> AnMaster: "Pompous" means like "arrogant" -- I don't think of Prokofiev's music as anything like that.
20:01:18 <hiato> AnMaster, yes, he wrote an opera, and it is good :P
20:01:22 <AnMaster> lament, did Satie really do that?
20:01:37 <fizzie> "rimsky-korsikov": http://pastebin.com/qWERDPKM
20:01:42 <AnMaster> cpressey, hm. Most russian music sound like that to be
20:01:49 <AnMaster> hiato, I just don't like operas!
20:01:55 <Gregor> Mmmm, pompous doesn't /quite/ mean arrogant, but yeah, similar.
20:01:58 <AnMaster> hiato, I dislike the singing
20:02:04 <Gregor> And I can see what AnMaster is saying about pompousness in Russian music.
20:02:16 <Gregor> But Russian music is all awesomesauce :P
20:02:17 <hiato> AnMaster: but that is the point
20:02:18 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0AkO2OTfjA
20:02:23 <AnMaster> <fizzie> "rimsky-korsikov": http://pastebin.com/qWERDPKM <-- ?
20:02:39 <hiato> Gregor: Yeah! I ... er, have ... the red army chior double cd
20:02:52 <fizzie> AnMaster: Just a random act of quotation.
20:03:00 <AnMaster> hiato, I have something like that on LP I think
20:03:03 <AnMaster> somewhere
20:03:10 <AnMaster> didn't buy it myself
20:03:21 <hiato> and it's brilliant
20:03:30 <cpressey> Well, *of* Russian music, Prokofiev is like the least pompous, I think.
20:03:34 <Gregor> Argh, I was going to mention that composer who was quite popular until everybody started associating him with Nazi Germany, and now his music is super-underplayed, but I can't remember his name ...
20:03:46 <MissPiggy> hitler?
20:03:54 <AnMaster> hiato, well, their rendition of the Internationale is quite impressive!
20:03:57 <ais523> gah, the SCO court cases are setting my mind on the verge of exploding
20:03:58 <AnMaster> (sp?)
20:04:00 <Gregor> Hitler was a fan of his.
20:04:03 <hiato> then, you get the wonders of Monti in his one favourable piece
20:04:13 <AnMaster> <cpressey> Well, *of* Russian music, Prokofiev is like the least pompous, I think. <-- and it is still too much so for me
20:04:21 <AnMaster> I prefer not at all pompous music
20:04:35 <AnMaster> cpressey, probably why I so much strongly prefer chamber music
20:04:48 <hiato> AnMaster: Internationale from them moved me the first time I heard it
20:04:50 <cpressey> AnMaster: Understandable. Well, Vivaldi is also in my Top Ten.
20:04:56 <AnMaster> full orchestra somehow tends to make music more easily pompous...
20:05:11 <hiato> you cannot say that tchaikovsky was pompous
20:05:11 <AnMaster> hiato, hm
20:05:14 <hiato> that is a crime
20:05:16 <AnMaster> hiato, I do say that
20:05:33 <hiato> Blasphemer!
20:05:35 <AnMaster> And lets just not get started about Mahler!
20:05:40 <cpressey> It's all about twisted structure to me (could you tell from my languages...?), and for that, Prokofiev absolutely frickin rules. At least, to me.
20:05:55 <hiato> soon you'll say you like strauss or chopan or something
20:05:58 <AnMaster> now I think he might even beat Sibelius at being most pompous ever
20:06:07 <AnMaster> hiato, which Strauss?
20:06:17 <cpressey> Handel and Chopin are also good stuff.
20:06:17 <AnMaster> I quite like some of Chopin's music
20:06:18 <hiato> AnMaster: you have me stumped
20:06:24 <AnMaster> Händel varies
20:06:28 <hiato> flight of the valkyer strauss, AnMaster
20:06:29 <AnMaster> I like part of his music
20:06:35 <AnMaster> some less so
20:06:37 <lament> the most pompous is obviously vagner
20:06:41 <lament> wagner
20:06:47 <hiato> please, say it isn't so
20:06:49 <AnMaster> <hiato> flight of the valkyer strauss, AnMaster <-- now you are mixing up Strauss and Wagner
20:06:52 <hiato> eg
20:06:54 <hiato> I know
20:06:57 <hiato> I meant blue danube
20:07:03 <AnMaster> hiato, and Wagner is *horrible*
20:07:03 <hiato> I was thinking about wagner though
20:07:06 <AnMaster> that is easily worst ever
20:07:07 <AnMaster> ever
20:07:09 <hiato> yes, agreed
20:07:19 <AnMaster> hiato, for Strauss, I can't keep them apart really
20:07:23 <AnMaster> so can't really answer
20:07:27 <lament> i only ever heard one wagner piece and it was pretty awesome (the ouverture to lohengrin)
20:07:28 <cpressey> Wagner is background music for D&D melodrama
20:07:47 <AnMaster> cpressey, tabletop?
20:07:54 <cpressey> For that, it makes OK background music, but that's all it is
20:08:02 <cpressey> AnMaster: Ring cycle
20:08:03 <hiato> cpressey: wagner is bacground music for ww2 melodrama
20:08:09 <AnMaster> cpressey, flight of the valkyries doesn't fit anywhere
20:08:14 <AnMaster> cpressey, ?
20:08:40 <cpressey> AnMaster: Das Ring Der Niebelungenungenner
20:08:47 <AnMaster> cpressey, yes
20:09:04 <AnMaster> cpressey, but that last word looks a bit too much extended
20:09:08 <hiato> out of interest, what's the opion on dvorak here?
20:09:10 <fizzie> Entgegengegangen, my favorite verb.
20:09:27 <AnMaster> hiato, okay, quite nice background music
20:09:32 <AnMaster> nothing you go "wow" over
20:09:34 <AnMaster> anyway, Debussy varies widely.
20:09:36 <AnMaster> some is really good
20:09:39 <hiato> yes, I guess
20:09:40 <AnMaster> some is a disaster
20:09:50 <hiato> Debussy only has one piece worthy of my ears
20:09:52 <AnMaster> La Mer is a disaster for example
20:09:56 <hiato> clarir de lune
20:09:57 <cpressey> Debussy is for falling asleep to
20:10:26 <AnMaster> hiato, I would add "The Girl with the Flaxen Hair" to that
20:10:32 <hiato> meh
20:10:35 <cpressey> Copland, and Britten, otoh...
20:10:49 <AnMaster> cpressey, doesn't ring much of bells here
20:10:52 <AnMaster> the first slightly
20:10:54 <AnMaster> the second none at all
20:11:00 <hiato> and finally, the last of my idols, the not so classical gershwin
20:11:05 <Gregor> Copland is only known in the US :P
20:11:11 <AnMaster> hiato, gershwin is quite nice
20:11:28 <AnMaster> also I count classically as the classical period only
20:11:30 <hiato> well, by apperciating him I can forgive your admiration of chamber music
20:11:35 <cpressey> And sometimes the US is known as Copland, because the Cops here are so ... nice.
20:11:39 <AnMaster> the vulgar sense of "classical" music
20:11:44 <AnMaster> I call "art music"
20:11:52 <hiato> interesting
20:11:53 <AnMaster> from translating the Swedish word for it
20:11:58 <Gregor> I just call it "music actually worth listening to" :P
20:12:01 -!- whtspc has joined.
20:12:13 <AnMaster> Gregor, well I think experimental jazz can be quite okay sometimes
20:12:22 <Gregor> Fair enough.
20:12:32 <Gregor> But yeah, classical music encompasses Haydn to Beethoven, and not much else.
20:12:39 <Gregor> And little of what we've talked about.
20:12:47 <lament> debussy is fucking awesome
20:12:53 <hiato> that is, to me, classic music
20:13:00 <hiato> classical music, is all of what we mention
20:13:00 <AnMaster> Gregor, Beethoven is right at the edge of the classical period though
20:13:05 <lament> hiato: obviously you like the arabesque
20:13:07 <lament> by debussy
20:13:10 <Gregor> AnMaster: Yeah, he's certainly arguable.
20:13:16 <hiato> guilty as charged
20:13:17 <AnMaster> Gregor, some of his work I would call romantical rather than classical
20:13:28 <Gregor> But that "some" is important :)
20:13:33 <AnMaster> lament, I like it, but not something I go "wow" above
20:13:36 <AnMaster> about*
20:13:39 <lament> AnMaster: you're not hiato
20:13:46 <AnMaster> lament, true
20:13:53 <AnMaster> I just provided an extra data point
20:13:56 <lament> you might actually have some taste
20:14:09 <lament> he just claims to like clair de lune, so obviously he must like arabesque as well
20:14:17 <AnMaster> lets all agree that Mozart's chamber music is awesome?
20:14:22 <AnMaster> especially if for a string quartet
20:14:35 <lament> dunno, divertimentos are kinda boring
20:14:52 <hiato> !Error: does not compute!
20:15:15 <lament> i really like the 1st mvt of dissonance quartet, but the others not so much
20:15:17 <AnMaster> lament, I quite like the last movement in Eine Kleine Nachtmusik (spelling? The spellchecker should auto detect what I meant!)
20:15:26 <lament> oh i never actually heard that :D
20:15:32 <hiato> Heh
20:15:37 <hiato> And sheep may safely graze
20:15:54 <AnMaster> lament, well, it is one of his most famous pieces of music
20:16:01 <lament> AnMaster: only one mvt
20:16:06 <AnMaster> lament, which one?
20:16:08 <lament> obviously i heard that one
20:16:09 <lament> the famous one
20:16:10 <lament> fuck
20:16:17 <AnMaster> lament, I don't know which one is the famous one!
20:16:31 <Gregor> Suk!
20:16:44 <Gregor> Nobody (outside of the Czech Republic) has heard of Suk :P
20:16:51 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqah1rucyRg <-- IT'S SO AMERICAN!
20:16:51 <AnMaster> lament, I'm talking about Rondo: Allegro
20:17:14 <AnMaster> cpressey, the title made me decide it wasn't worth the effort to youtube-dl
20:17:20 <lament> AnMaster: 1st mvt is the famous one
20:17:29 <cpressey> uh, but the percussion section in the orchestra is kind of fail
20:17:29 <AnMaster> lament, all, well, it is kind of okay
20:17:41 <AnMaster> lament, but nothing, I repeat *nothing* like the final movement!
20:18:19 <AnMaster> lament, the final movement really made me go "wow, wow" the first time I heard it
20:18:32 <AnMaster> also what is your opinion on Leopold Mozart?
20:18:42 <cpressey> AnMaster: it's actually a fine piece of music.
20:18:45 <cpressey> IMo of course
20:19:05 <AnMaster> cpressey, which one? K525 IV. Rondo?
20:19:10 <lament> never heard leopold mozart
20:19:14 * hiato thinks that anyone who checks the logs for today will think that the date must be April 1
20:19:14 <cpressey> AnMaster: the link i sent
20:19:24 * AnMaster wonders how many here has even listened to anything composed by W. A. Mozart's father
20:19:28 * cpressey has almost no opinion on Mozart
20:19:41 <cpressey> Beethoven, otoh
20:19:45 <cpressey> <3 Beethoven
20:19:48 * hiato has never heard of W. Mozart's Father
20:19:53 <hiato> noooooo!
20:19:54 <AnMaster> cpressey, isn't any "wow"
20:20:08 -!- dougx has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
20:20:09 <cpressey> AnMaster: Any Mozart? Um...
20:20:14 <AnMaster> hiato, Leopold Mozart. Heard one piece of it
20:20:19 <cpressey> That Turkish March thing is catchy.
20:20:22 <lament> beethoven is lame
20:20:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, well yes
20:20:33 <lament> i hate beethoven
20:20:36 <hiato> AnMaster: name?
20:20:36 <AnMaster> cpressey, I meant Beethoven "<AnMaster> cpressey, isn't any "wow""
20:20:36 <lament> what a pretentious dickwad
20:20:37 <cpressey> lament: OK, so let me get this straight.
20:20:41 <AnMaster> hiato, who?
20:20:46 <hiato> cpressey: turkish is wolf mozart
20:20:48 <cpressey> lament: You *like* Debussy and you *don't like* Beethoven.
20:20:50 <AnMaster> hiato, oh the piece? Toy Symphony
20:20:55 <hiato> AnMaster: yeah
20:20:56 <AnMaster> hiato, includes some unusual instruments
20:21:01 <hiato> oh?
20:21:05 <lament> cpressey: beethoven is like, omg check out how awesome i am and how much my heroic soul suffers
20:21:12 <lament> guess what fuck you dipshit i dont care
20:21:33 <AnMaster> cpressey, I have to agree with lament here. Beethoven made some quite nice pieces. But a lot of it is just too heavy and romantical
20:21:48 <hiato> thirded! (?)
20:22:09 <lament> when beethoven is classical, he's worse than mozart
20:22:15 <lament> when beethoven is romantic, he's worse than chopin
20:22:19 <lament> he's just stuck in this in-between stage
20:22:36 <AnMaster> lament, Fur Elise is quite nice though
20:22:58 <AnMaster> they used to play an electronic version of it on some radio station here when it wasn't sending
20:22:59 <hiato> moohlight aynone?
20:23:02 <AnMaster> like, during the night
20:23:06 <AnMaster> the first opening bars or such
20:23:16 <AnMaster> hiato, "meh"
20:23:26 <hiato> I would say moonlight > fur elise
20:23:28 <lament> AnMaster: dcc
20:23:31 <AnMaster> I don't get what the fuss is about wrt moonlight
20:23:42 <AnMaster> lament, uh, need to unblock it
20:23:46 <hiato> but that's just becaues, for me, the melody is more "involved"
20:24:07 <AnMaster> lament, okay, temporarily unignored dcc
20:24:09 <AnMaster> try again
20:24:16 <AnMaster> lament, and I'm behind weird NAT
20:24:23 <AnMaster> so, I hope it all works on your side
20:24:36 <AnMaster> lament, but what are you going to send?
20:24:39 <cpressey> lament: Just wanted to get that straight.
20:24:48 <AnMaster> (and when will the dialogue come?)
20:24:50 <cpressey> For the record, I barely consider what Debussy wrote to be music.
20:25:10 <AnMaster> cpressey, for La Mer I would agree. For several of his other works I find them very nice
20:25:47 <AnMaster> of course even La Mer is *miles* above people like Schönberg (who is *parsecs* above Wagner)
20:25:59 <cpressey> As French composers go, Berlioz or Couperin.
20:26:04 <AnMaster> cpressey, Satie!
20:26:07 <hiato> but back to beethoven, I have this brialliant CD set of Ashkenazy playing some of his piano movements, brilliant the lot. But, then as they progress, you can hear the romantic influences and it gets annoying
20:26:09 <cpressey> Oh right!
20:26:17 <cpressey> I keep forgetting Satie is French.
20:26:18 <AnMaster> cpressey, Lizt and Paganini are interesting technically
20:26:26 <AnMaster> lament, aren't you going to resend the DCC request then?
20:26:41 <AnMaster> lament, as I said it was dropped first time and now I temporarily allowed it
20:26:41 <hiato> AnMaster: only if you are a violin player
20:26:45 <cpressey> And Schönberg was some very twisted soul who I'll never understand.
20:26:46 <AnMaster> hiato, what?
20:26:51 <AnMaster> hiato, well, to listen to
20:27:09 <hiato> Paganinin, I don't find technically interesting, being a saxophonist
20:27:16 <AnMaster> lament, it says "connecting..."
20:27:28 <AnMaster> lament, sure you opened the ports on your side?
20:27:31 <lament> fuck dcc
20:27:32 <AnMaster> * DCC RECV connect attempt to lament failed (err=Connection timed out).
20:27:37 <lament> oh well
20:27:40 <lament> i'm too lazy to upload it
20:27:47 <AnMaster> lament, fur elise I see
20:27:53 <AnMaster> but what is special about that one
20:28:15 * AnMaster re-enabled *!*@* dcc ignore
20:28:16 <lament> cpressey: debussy is stunning at times
20:28:28 <AnMaster> lament, agreed. But what about La Mer?
20:28:33 <lament> cpressey: you don't like the sunken cathedral?
20:28:35 <AnMaster> you can't say that one is stunning can you?
20:28:45 <lament> AnMaster: please be more logical and less non-sequitur
20:28:56 <AnMaster> lament, wrt what?
20:29:53 * AnMaster never heard the sunken cathedral btw
20:30:06 <AnMaster> brb in a few minutes
20:30:45 <hiato> Checking my playlist now, it seems I listen to brahms more than vivaldi, handel, chopin, mozart, bach, lizt and some others put together
20:30:51 <hiato> and I don't even like brahms :P
20:31:03 <lament> brahms has awesome harmonies
20:31:07 <lament> nobody else is even close
20:31:25 <lament> well i guess rachmaninoff
20:32:31 <hiato> Who was it that wrote the Peer Gynt Suite? That, to me, is the greatest (non-Satie) simplistic music
20:32:43 <cpressey> If Beethoven had a suffering, heroic soul, then Debussy had the soul of a lovesick schoolgirl.
20:33:33 * cpressey looks for Sunken Cathedral
20:34:43 <cpressey> hiato: Grieg I think?
20:35:34 <hiato> Se possible
20:35:59 <hiato> who, by the way, I think struck it lucky with hall of the mountain king
20:36:32 <cpressey> Kind of a one-hit wonder, yeah, but he wrote a lot of short "character pieces", and what I've heard of the others, he's not too bad.
20:36:54 <hiato> pf... didn't know about that
20:38:16 <cpressey> Completely forgot.
20:38:32 <cpressey> Mendelssohn
20:38:37 <AnMaster> <hiato> Checking my playlist now, it seems I listen to brahms more than vivaldi, handel, chopin, mozart, bach, lizt and some others put together <-- bramhs? "meh" again
20:38:53 <AnMaster> <hiato> Who was it that wrote the Peer Gynt Suite? That, to me, is the greatest (non-Satie) simplistic music
20:38:58 <AnMaster> Grieg is indeed awesome
20:39:26 <AnMaster> I listened to the whole Peer Gynt of course
20:39:29 <cpressey> OK, now I can say I have endured the Sunken Cathedral.
20:39:30 <AnMaster> quite interesting
20:39:36 <AnMaster> cpressey, link?
20:39:41 <cpressey> It's kind of nice... if you like downing.
20:39:56 <cpressey> Or drowning.
20:40:01 <AnMaster> Mendelssohn is meh
20:40:07 <cpressey> AnMaster: to which?
20:40:10 <hiato> medelssohn is genious
20:40:18 <AnMaster> cpressey, sunken cathedral
20:40:19 <hiato> violin concerto in e minor!
20:40:29 <cpressey> I-TAL-ian, I-TAL-ian, dah DAHHH, duh duh duh
20:40:31 <AnMaster> hiato, not sure I heard that one. Link?
20:40:39 <cpressey> AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3geejD5Dksk
20:41:23 <AnMaster> cpressey, disharmonic much?
20:41:33 <AnMaster> that is the bit I hate about La Mer
20:41:37 <AnMaster> well not hate
20:41:40 <AnMaster> that's too strong
20:41:44 <AnMaster> "strongly dislike" is better
20:41:56 <hiato> AnMaster: http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-035Fall-2005/CourseHome/index.htm
20:41:59 <hiato> yugh
20:42:06 <AnMaster> hiato, really?
20:42:11 <hiato> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p08izmpPy0s#
20:42:14 <hiato> heh
20:42:16 <AnMaster> hiato, are you using synergy or something?
20:42:17 <cpressey> AnMaster: lots of wishy-washy not-exactly-disharmonious fourths and ninths and stuff, I though
20:42:23 <hiato> goddamn two xclipboards
20:42:24 <AnMaster> it tends to fuck up your clipboard badly
20:42:32 <AnMaster> hiato, I always use middle mouse one
20:43:35 <hiato> i guess
20:44:43 <cpressey> Chopin isn't great, but there's a couple of his pieces that always get stuck in my head
20:44:55 <AnMaster> well, okay background music
20:45:00 <AnMaster> you don't remember it 5 minutes later
20:45:03 <cpressey> I don't dig piano music generally, but his I can usually stand
20:45:07 <AnMaster> that is my opinion on Chopin
20:45:23 <cpressey> Not quite as background-y as Wagner, but yes, pretty background-y.
20:45:25 <AnMaster> cpressey, wrt. piano music: Mozart or Lizt
20:45:36 <AnMaster> plus I play piano (amateur level!) myself
20:45:45 <cpressey> You know, I know almost nothing by Liszt.
20:45:50 <AnMaster> cpressey, wagener isn't backgroundy. Wagner is headachy
20:45:57 <cpressey> And, I now claim, Mozart was a robot.
20:46:03 <AnMaster> cpressey, what?
20:46:17 <cpressey> Well, I figured I ought to have some opinion about him, so there it is,.
20:46:24 <AnMaster> XD
20:47:50 <hiato> AnMaster: and? what did you think of he mendelssohn?
20:47:52 <AnMaster> lament, listened to that sunken cathedral. Not one of his best pieces
20:48:02 <AnMaster> hiato, just started listening to it
20:48:22 <AnMaster> hiato, too much symphony orchestra. But at least a lot of strings.
20:48:38 <hiato> Wait, it's a *violin* concerto
20:48:41 <hiato> mainly solo
20:48:42 <AnMaster> hiato, one of mendelssohn's better pieces so far
20:48:48 <cpressey> hiato: Max Bruch also wrote a pretty quality violin concerto
20:48:53 <AnMaster> hiato, well, too much orchestra then
20:48:54 -!- angstrom has joined.
20:49:00 <hiato> Never heard of him cpressey
20:49:02 <AnMaster> (hiato, remember I prefer chamber music)
20:49:11 <AnMaster> hm who is angstrom?
20:49:20 <cpressey> hiato: I first heard of him from the B-side of that Mendelssohn concerto :)
20:49:21 <angstrom> could a quine be written which utilizes a function to generate a sequence of numbers (ascii) which, printed out, represent the program (_including_ the implementation of the function!) ?
20:49:25 <AnMaster> cpressey, anyway got anywhere with befunge-111 today?
20:49:37 <cpressey> AnMaster: not working on it today.
20:49:49 <AnMaster> angstrom, how do you mean?
20:50:02 <AnMaster> angstrom, and in which language
20:50:04 <cpressey> *B-side of a recording of that Mendelssohn concerto
20:50:19 <angstrom> AnMaster: wondering whether is possible at all
20:50:21 <ais523> angstrom: in any sufficiently powerful language (TC with a few assumptions about I/O), there's no reason it couldn't be
20:50:40 <cpressey> ais523: You get pinged on 'quine', don't you? :)
20:50:43 <hiato> AnMaster: right, a chamber musci man can't apperciate mendelssohn at his best
20:50:44 <angstrom> ais523: but how would one move towards it
20:50:49 <AnMaster> cpressey, :D
20:50:52 <ais523> cpressey: no, I don't; just happened to look into the channel
20:51:01 <hiato> cpressey: interesting, I'll take a look around
20:51:09 <ais523> angstrom: you'd use one of the quine models that allow you to add arbitrary data that's also quined
20:51:18 <AnMaster> hiato, yeah, Vivaldi, Mozart and Kraus for me. And *some* of Haydn
20:51:28 <ais523> then put code in that duplicates that arbitrary data that changes an ordinary quine into the numbers
20:51:37 <angstrom> ais523: that is not what i mean
20:51:46 <ais523> what do you mean?
20:52:18 <ais523> are you trying to limit the "function" somewhat so it doesn't have a bunch of arbitrary data encoded in it?
20:52:26 <cpressey> hiato: OK, listening to the Mendelssohn concerto again, uhhh. Max Bruch's is good, but it doesn't compare.
20:53:02 <AnMaster> hiato yet I like Grieg very much. But a lot of his isn't pompous even though it uses a full orchestra. (Of course some exceptions, like "I dovregubbens sal" (iirc, and "In the hall of the mountain king" in English))
20:53:11 <AnMaster> (yet that one is acceptable somehow)
20:53:26 <angstrom> ais523: for every given arbitrary finite sequence a function, which generates this sequence, could be described. the problem is: the sequence _must_ contain the implementation of the function
20:53:34 -!- whtspc has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
20:53:58 <AnMaster> ais523, anyone made a GOL "quine"?
20:54:01 <AnMaster> well
20:54:03 <AnMaster> non-trivial one
20:54:07 <hiato> AnMaster: yeah, everyone has theri own tastes though. funyy that you like grieg though
20:54:11 <angstrom> got my point?
20:54:18 <hiato> cpressey: yeah! now you start to apprecaite mendelssohn
20:54:24 <ais523> angstrom: yes; but that's just the same as a normal quine
20:54:29 <hiato> he's brilliant like no other for those concertos
20:54:32 <AnMaster> hiato, it has a feeling of lightness and open nature about it all through.
20:54:35 <ais523> because you can see the entire program as a function
20:54:55 <hiato> AnMaster, what, grieg?
20:54:59 <AnMaster> hiato, yes
20:55:12 <cpressey> hiato: I had forgotten...
20:55:13 <AnMaster> hiato, don't you just see the fjords when you listen to his music
20:55:27 <AnMaster> (well not in all pieces of course)
20:55:31 <angstrom> ais523: could you provide me with a particular example? all the quines i've seen relly heavily on pre-processor macros
20:55:32 <hiato> AnMaster hahaha, yeah, I'm pining for the fjords
20:55:38 <hiato> cpressey :)
20:55:58 <AnMaster> hiato, augh. But seriously... some of Grieg's best is non-Peer-Gynt
20:55:58 <angstrom> ais523: maybe you are right
20:56:12 <ais523> angstrom: think any BF quine, but interpreted as a function; if you want it to be an actual function in the language, use a BF-like language which has functions
20:56:17 <AnMaster> hiato, hardangerfela (sp?) is a nice Norwegian "folk" instrument
20:56:33 <hiato> AnMaster: I must disagree. In fact, I find it hard to apprecaite any of his other stuff compare to it
20:56:51 <AnMaster> hiato, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardingfele
20:56:59 <AnMaster> hiato, what? !?
20:57:14 <angstrom> ais523: ic. have to investigate
20:57:15 <AnMaster> hiato, Peer Gynt is good but nothing like *digs around for cd*
20:57:45 <AnMaster> ah found it
20:58:24 <AnMaster> hiato, hm must check which track on the cd it is I'm thinking about
20:59:17 <AnMaster> hiato, Norwegian Dance No. 2 for example
20:59:35 <AnMaster> hiato, (Allegretto tranquillo e grazioso)
21:00:19 <AnMaster> hiato, Solveig's Sang is nice though
21:00:20 <hiato> link por favor
21:00:28 <AnMaster> (even though it is in Peer Gynt)
21:00:57 <AnMaster> hiato, sure: http://www.naxos.com/catalogue/item.asp?item_code=8.551108
21:01:00 <hiato> though, I think I did try searching for norweigan dance once, after having heard it on theradio
21:01:19 <AnMaster> hm times out for me that link
21:01:29 <AnMaster> ah now it loads
21:01:45 <AnMaster> hiato, anyway, it is track 3 on that cd.
21:01:59 <AnMaster> hiato, solveig's sang you can find any number of
21:02:06 <AnMaster> hiato, just pick an instrumental one!
21:02:13 <cpressey> Schubert's Unfinished is also good. Never been a huge fan of his other stuff though.
21:02:26 <hiato> AnMaster: will do, commencing youtubing now
21:02:29 <AnMaster> hiato, also Holberg Suite: Prelude is awesome
21:03:45 <AnMaster> hiato, I imagine a Scandinavian mountainous region, crystal clear weather, slight breeze, mid-morning.
21:03:55 <AnMaster> fjords definitely have a place in there!
21:04:39 <hiato> haha :P
21:04:42 <AnMaster> well it changes feeling towards the end
21:04:49 <AnMaster> but to begin with it is definitely like that
21:04:53 <hiato> eh, it keeps timing out, but I will keep searching
21:05:08 <AnMaster> hiato, also Holberg Suite: Andante is quite nice
21:05:20 <AnMaster> not "wow"
21:05:22 <AnMaster> but restful
21:06:26 <hiato> you see, I like the dramatic music of tchaikovsky, and the tension of prokofiev (esp: dance of the knights/romeo juliet) so it's difficult for me to accept "airy" music like some of this
21:06:47 <AnMaster> hiato, tchaikovsky: overly dramatic and somewhat pompous
21:07:05 <cpressey> hiato: I think you and I must have similar tastes. Satie is some of the only music that I like that I would call "airy".
21:07:20 <AnMaster> hiato, But would you call Vivaldi's summer, third movement "airy"?
21:07:29 <cpressey> Tchaikovsky I'm kind of neutral on.
21:07:38 <AnMaster> hiato, it's supposed to depict a raging thunderstorm ffs!
21:07:40 <cpressey> Vivaldi rocks.
21:07:51 <hiato> cpressey: I would mostly agree
21:08:04 <AnMaster> and that movement takes second place on my all time best list
21:08:17 <hiato> AnMaster: well, the only thing I really like from vivaldi is winter, er, allegro i think
21:08:43 <AnMaster> after Kraus' Sinfonia in C# minor movement 4
21:08:56 <AnMaster> hiato, the winter is the worst of the seasons
21:08:59 <cpressey> I like weird. Some of the composers I like are obviously pretty weird (Prokofiev, Satie, Milhaud, Stravinsky...) I'm trying to figure out what the ones who *aren't* weird, have in common.
21:09:04 <AnMaster> of course vivaldi did a lot more than just the seasons
21:09:10 <AnMaster> some of it very nice
21:09:19 <AnMaster> cpressey, satie is not weird
21:09:22 <cpressey> Vivaldi is not weird, neither is Mendelssohn
21:09:41 <AnMaster> cpressey, I recommend you listen to Kraus
21:09:53 <hiato> AnMaster: I really can't dig vivaldi
21:09:53 <cpressey> AnMaster: Satie is extremely weird! It's just hard to hear in some of his pieces
21:09:59 <hiato> cpressey: to me, those are normal
21:10:01 <AnMaster> hiato, well that's your issue ;P
21:10:03 <cpressey> He wrote a piece for walking stick!
21:10:08 <hiato> what AnMaster appreciates, now that's weird ;)
21:10:17 <AnMaster> hiato, no!
21:10:36 <cpressey> Well, on the other hand, Schoenberg was ... too weird. Schoenberg is like the Malbolge of composers.
21:11:05 <hiato> haha
21:11:09 <hiato> I like that comparison
21:11:14 <hiato> never heard his stuff though
21:11:19 <AnMaster> hiato, airy music I definitely like. Dramatic: sure, but I definitely forbid more than 0.01 µWagner of pompousness!
21:11:22 <hiato> where satie is BF
21:11:33 <hiato> hahaha
21:11:34 <cpressey> Satie wrote a piece with words, and included the note "These are not lyrics. Under no circumstances should they be spoken aloud during performance"
21:11:45 <AnMaster> cpressey, my dad likes Schönberg. And Wagner.
21:11:47 <AnMaster> *shudder*
21:12:13 <hiato> look, I don't like wagner any more than you, and unfortunately, you have the same taste as my dad AnMaster
21:12:14 <AnMaster> cpressey, he was quite anti-Wagner iirc
21:12:15 <cpressey> Hm, Satie = BF? Maybe...
21:12:26 <AnMaster> hiato, "unfortunately"?
21:12:37 <AnMaster> cpressey, nah, Satie is more like a mild version of intercal
21:12:42 <hiato> Yeah, we have entirely separarte CD collections
21:12:49 <AnMaster> hiato, same here!
21:12:54 <cpressey> I was thinking Satie = Underload, but I'm not familiar enough with Underload to say
21:12:55 <hiato> i cant stand his stuff, he doesn't like mine
21:13:03 <AnMaster> my dad even likes Stravinsky
21:13:07 <AnMaster> which I just don't get
21:13:07 <ais523> and I'm not familiar enough with Satie to say
21:13:16 <AnMaster> well, it isn't actually horrible
21:13:18 <AnMaster> like Wagner is
21:13:24 <AnMaster> but, what is the point of Stravinsky...
21:13:26 <hiato> yeah, mine likes water music, which is just atrocious
21:13:41 <cpressey> AnMaster: The point of Stravinsky is The Rite of Spring.
21:13:42 <AnMaster> hiato, Händel's water music?
21:13:44 <AnMaster> well it is kind of OK
21:13:50 <hiato> Not in specific, but yes
21:13:59 <hiato> AHHHHH! NOOOOOO! Not you too!
21:14:03 <cpressey> That's about all... a lot of his other stuff is pretty meh.
21:14:03 <ais523> wow, I never knew Handel had an umlaut
21:14:09 <AnMaster> hiato, not on my "best" list
21:14:12 <chickenzilla> have you tried spectral music ? :)
21:14:14 <cpressey> hiato: ?
21:14:17 <AnMaster> ais523, he dropped it after he moved to UK
21:14:23 <AnMaster> ais523, but yes originally he did
21:14:36 <AnMaster> ais523, and that is an ä not an a with an umlaut
21:14:37 <AnMaster> t!
21:14:40 <cpressey> I like Handel pretty good. I think he makes my top ten. Or at least, he did once.
21:14:41 <AnMaster> s/t//
21:14:49 <hiato> AnMaster: ok, fine, but try not to listen to it
21:14:53 <AnMaster> what?
21:14:57 <AnMaster> hiato, water music?
21:15:08 <AnMaster> hiato, yeah most movements are a bit too pompous for my taste
21:15:11 <hiato> yeah
21:15:14 <AnMaster> there is one movement in it I like
21:15:21 <AnMaster> which one was it now again
21:15:25 <hiato> "airy", insusbstantail, decorative
21:15:28 <AnMaster> hiato, Alla hornpipe or something?
21:15:45 <AnMaster> hiato, the other ones are too pompous definitely, or just not good
21:16:16 <AnMaster> hiato, also way too few violins in the water music!
21:16:18 <hiato> AnMaster, I'm sorry, the act of listening to that and baroque is physically annoying to me, I just can't do it
21:16:28 <cpressey> AnMaster: What do you think of Couperin?
21:16:37 <AnMaster> cpressey, "who?"
21:16:47 <AnMaster> hiato, I do keep away from Bach played on organ
21:16:56 <AnMaster> Bach on piano is quite okay
21:17:05 <cpressey> AnMaster: baroque, french, mainly harpsichord/organ
21:17:07 <AnMaster> but I hate the instrument that is called organ
21:17:08 -!- angstrom has changed nick to angstrom_.
21:17:22 <AnMaster> cpressey, harpsichord is quite okay
21:17:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, organ should be outlawed
21:17:59 <hiato> organ >> harpsicord, have you ever heard of jazz harpsichord? I don't think so
21:18:07 <AnMaster> no
21:18:21 <AnMaster> but then I only enjoy jazz when I happen to listen to it
21:18:27 <cpressey> AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 if you want a sample (it's alright -- I know I've heard better by him, but I can't find it)
21:18:28 <AnMaster> by pure chance
21:18:30 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:18:36 <AnMaster> it isn't something I actively try to listen to
21:18:56 <AnMaster> hiato, also organ should be outlawed
21:19:01 <AnMaster> I still maintain that
21:19:07 <AnMaster> it is the worst instrument ever devised
21:19:17 <AnMaster> possibly apart from "opera-style singing"
21:19:23 <cpressey> I'm not really happy about any instrument that has only one output level
21:19:41 <cpressey> But I don't think I share AnMaster's organ-hate
21:19:51 <AnMaster> cpressey, hm? that would explain a lot about organs
21:19:53 <cpressey> Harp, ugh
21:19:53 <AnMaster> if that was so
21:19:58 <hiato> AnMaster, you have some serious problems, like, the same sort should I choose to code liktheora in malbolge
21:20:01 <AnMaster> cpressey, harp can be nice
21:20:20 <hiato> harp is okay, harp as in harmonica is great
21:20:22 <AnMaster> hiato, libtheora in malbolge!?
21:20:23 <AnMaster> wth
21:20:35 <AnMaster> hiato, I mean, classical harp
21:20:36 <cpressey> AnMaster: yeah, harpsichord has one dynamic only. That's why a piano is called a piano (short for pianoforte, i.e. it can be soft *and* loud)
21:20:45 <AnMaster> I have no idea what "harp as in harmonica" *is*
21:21:02 <cpressey> harp is blues/jazz slang for harmonica. very confusing
21:21:11 <hiato> harp is slang for harmonica
21:21:14 <hiato> eh, ninja'd
21:21:16 <AnMaster> cpressey, what about spinets?
21:21:44 <AnMaster> "ninja'd"?
21:21:48 <AnMaster> wth does that mean
21:21:58 <AnMaster> harmonica is "meh"
21:22:01 <AnMaster> neutral
21:22:49 <AnMaster> hiato, anyway, I'm not talking about jazz instruments here
21:22:56 <lament> god you're STILL talking about music
21:23:03 <cpressey> AnMaster: Not really familiar with them. There are a tonne of percussion/plectra keyboard instruments that have niche roles...
21:23:07 <lament> i went to lunch already
21:23:14 <AnMaster> lament, we were talking about quines a bit in the middle
21:23:21 <lament> AnMaster: harps are not jazz instruments.
21:23:23 <AnMaster> lament, but well, there was no other discussion going on
21:23:28 <AnMaster> lament, I never claimed that
21:23:32 <cpressey> Actually, I think we're mostly talking about instruments now.
21:23:33 <AnMaster> lament, it was hiato who did
21:23:40 <hiato> AnMaster: from the xkcd forums, someone beats you to someting
21:23:50 <AnMaster> hiato, ah...
21:23:52 <hiato> lament: harp -> harmonica
21:24:00 <AnMaster> hiato, xkcd jumped the shark long ago
21:24:00 <lament> yes, harmonicas are not jazz instruments
21:24:06 <cpressey> harp -> harmonica confused me for years
21:24:16 <AnMaster> harp is harp
21:24:18 <AnMaster> nothing else to me
21:24:23 <lament> http://goatkcd.com/120/sfw
21:24:26 <cpressey> Yes, because blues is not jazz.
21:24:52 <AnMaster> lament, nsfw!
21:25:03 <lament> well some people play chromatic harmonicas in a jazz setting
21:25:18 <lament> but when people say harp they usually mean diatonic
21:25:21 <AnMaster> btw, has anyone invoked rule 34 on rule 34?
21:25:44 <hiato> AnMaster: jumped the shark?
21:25:49 <AnMaster> lament, I also heard Vivaldi's summer on electric guitar
21:25:49 <cpressey> And, FWIW, I don't really like harmonica.
21:25:53 <hiato> what about rule 42 on rule 34?
21:25:56 <AnMaster> lament, go figure
21:26:05 <AnMaster> (I didn't like it at all)
21:26:14 <cpressey> Glass harmonicas are much cooler.
21:26:17 <hiato> lament: ok, fair enough, but my original claim was that organs can be
21:26:25 <lament> cpressey: most people play harmonicas really badly
21:26:36 <AnMaster> hiato, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark
21:26:51 <AnMaster> (sorry for that!)
21:27:03 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XPfoFZYso8 <-- Glass harmonica. Maybe AnMaster will forgive that it sounds kind of like an organ?
21:27:11 <AnMaster> (be aware of that tvtroupes is highly addictive!)
21:27:18 <cpressey> After all, harmonica = "mouth organ"
21:27:45 <AnMaster> cpressey, How does it work?
21:28:03 <cpressey> AnMaster: Water.
21:28:06 <AnMaster> cpressey, but it gave me half a headache I feel
21:28:17 * hiato head will explode, as he cannot debug+chat+chat+irc
21:28:21 <AnMaster> cpressey, why is it spinning?
21:28:32 <AnMaster> hiato, irc is chat
21:28:35 <AnMaster> there is no other chat
21:28:36 <AnMaster> well
21:28:38 <hiato> (never mind blink and breath)
21:28:41 <AnMaster> talk
21:28:44 <AnMaster> but that is dead
21:28:47 <AnMaster> sadly so
21:28:47 <hiato> haha
21:28:53 <AnMaster> I still know some people who use talk
21:28:58 <AnMaster> yes seriously!
21:29:05 <hiato> What? No!
21:29:11 <AnMaster> hiato, not only
21:29:12 <hiato> Surely thou jesteth!
21:29:13 <AnMaster> they use irc too
21:29:17 <cpressey> talk, not ntalk?
21:29:22 <hiato> or gtalk?
21:29:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, ntalk?
21:29:32 <AnMaster> I'm not sure
21:29:40 <cpressey> like ncurses except for talk, not curses
21:29:41 <AnMaster> it uses xinetd I know
21:29:43 <cpressey> i guess
21:29:52 <cpressey> n prolly stood for 'new'
21:29:56 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
21:29:59 <AnMaster> cpressey, ah ytalk was the program talking the talk protocol I think
21:30:05 <cpressey> oh yeah, ytalk
21:30:15 <AnMaster> cpressey, what about ntalk then?
21:30:26 <AnMaster> cpressey, and glass harmonica is *technically* impressive
21:30:29 <cpressey> well, the name popped into my head
21:30:34 <cpressey> i don't remember where its from
21:30:34 <AnMaster> sound is less so
21:30:45 <cpressey> AnMaster: agreed. it's not the prettiest sound.
21:31:07 <lament> what has the prettiest sound?
21:31:13 <AnMaster> lament, violin
21:31:14 <AnMaster> by far
21:31:15 * lament votes cello
21:31:21 <lament> violins are high-pitched screechy things
21:31:27 <lament> skreeech
21:31:27 <AnMaster> lament, they are not
21:31:35 <lament> skreeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAURGH
21:31:37 <AnMaster> they are vibrantly wonderful harmonics!
21:31:43 <AnMaster> s/are/have/
21:31:52 <lament> they're too high pitched
21:31:56 <AnMaster> lament, I disagree
21:31:58 <cpressey> Yet, violas sound like violins with a chest cold.
21:31:58 -!- dev_squid has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
21:32:09 <AnMaster> violas are too high pitched!
21:32:13 <AnMaster> that I agree with
21:32:18 <AnMaster> violins are wonderful
21:32:31 <AnMaster> lament, but do you hate that range on other instruments?
21:32:42 <cpressey> My vote is either flute or french horn.
21:32:49 <cpressey> I think.
21:33:08 <hiato> Sax!
21:33:14 <hiato> (and that's not a typo)
21:33:15 <cpressey> hiato: Which one?
21:33:19 <AnMaster> hiato, no that is just silly
21:33:28 <AnMaster> hiato, also sure if that is sv:sax
21:33:28 <AnMaster> :D
21:33:41 <AnMaster> which is en:scissors
21:33:53 <cpressey> I would have to say, of saxophones, probably alto
21:33:53 <AnMaster> how do you play music on scissors?
21:33:59 <AnMaster> is it like musical bow?
21:34:26 <cpressey> Soprano is too whiny, tenor too throaty, baritone OK except bass clarinet is better
21:34:37 <AnMaster> cpressey, but wait, aren't viola's lower pitch than violins?
21:34:42 <AnMaster> yet violins sounds better?
21:34:48 <cpressey> AnMaster: yes, they are.
21:34:52 <cpressey> AnMaster: yes, they do.
21:34:56 <cpressey> It's not just about pitch
21:35:03 <AnMaster> cpressey, they why do I find violas annoying but violins awesome?
21:35:12 <AnMaster> and cello quite okay
21:35:30 <lament> of saxophones, definitely baritone
21:35:31 <cpressey> Because violas are fail, I guess
21:35:35 <lament> baritone sax is my favourite instrument
21:35:39 <lament> sorry!
21:35:40 <lament> i mean tenor
21:35:41 <hiato> AnMaster: heh, I turn my head for two minutes and you go from salto sax -> scissors
21:35:42 <lament> not barintone
21:35:42 <lament> duh
21:35:44 <hiato> tisk tisk
21:35:52 <lament> tenor sax. best instrument.
21:35:56 <lament> other than cello of course.
21:35:59 <hiato> naah, alto
21:36:05 <lament> alto - too high pitched and boring
21:36:10 <hiato> alto pwns ur vilin n00blar
21:36:11 <lament> it lacks character
21:36:18 <AnMaster> hiato, :P
21:36:20 <lament> only losers play alto
21:36:23 <hiato> all ur vilin belong to us
21:36:42 <AnMaster> stop mixing up two memes -_-
21:36:44 <hiato> lament: we clearly have different taste
21:36:52 <lament> no
21:36:55 <hiato> have you listened to 50's rock?
21:37:02 <lament> have you listened to 30's rock?
21:37:02 <AnMaster> hiato, *shudder*
21:37:17 <AnMaster> next you are going to say you like rap or country western!
21:37:50 <lament> what's a good place to temporarily upload an mp3?
21:37:53 <hiato> AnMaster: I do like some rap
21:37:58 <hiato> lament: 30's? No
21:38:00 <lament> without creating an account?
21:38:03 <hiato> I'm talking Fats Domino here
21:38:12 <AnMaster> hiato, and yet rap is even worse than country western. And country western is horrible
21:38:15 <hiato> what was it, er, filehost.rg?
21:38:23 <hiato> AnMaster: an open mind is key
21:38:25 <AnMaster> lament, filebin?
21:38:29 <AnMaster> lament, .ca that is
21:38:32 <hiato> that's it
21:38:36 <lament> isn't that one infected by some worm?
21:38:41 <AnMaster> lament, is it?
21:38:44 <lament> dunno
21:38:59 <hiato> AnMaster: im so eclectic in my tastes its not even funny, taht is to say, it was never funny to begin with
21:39:04 <AnMaster> lament, I thought it was quite a okay one. ais used it for enigma levels iirc
21:39:13 <AnMaster> hiato, ?
21:39:40 <lament> AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/ducjyo/elise2.mp3
21:40:11 <AnMaster> lament, wgetted
21:40:30 <AnMaster> lament, how should I put it
21:40:45 <cpressey> hiato: Which rap would that be?
21:40:49 <hiato> AnMaster: I like everything from hardstyle, house and rap to all the composers above and even square waves and 8bit music
21:40:56 <AnMaster> lament, _interesting_ arrangement
21:41:03 <AnMaster> lament, quite okay though
21:41:07 <cpressey> Now we're in completely different territory and my tastes are completely different.
21:41:19 <cpressey> There is some rap I like but it is very rare.
21:41:20 <hiato> cpressey: I like some on eminems work, as well as some israeli groups and some tupac
21:41:27 <AnMaster> rap is just unacceptable
21:41:27 <lament> cpressey: http://filebin.ca/ducjyo/elise2.mp3
21:41:30 <AnMaster> to me
21:41:33 <AnMaster> it isn't even music
21:41:34 <AnMaster> at all
21:41:43 <AnMaster> it should be classified as noise
21:41:57 <AnMaster> and a health and safety issue
21:42:31 <hiato> heh
21:42:33 <hiato> cute
21:42:44 <AnMaster> cpressey, what about "god wrote the world in lisp"? I like it because of it's lyrics only
21:42:56 <cpressey> AnMaster: *never* heard of that :)
21:42:58 <hiato> but, I hate pop
21:43:07 <lament> i hate you :(
21:43:09 <hiato> songs with words suck, unless they are rap
21:43:27 <AnMaster> cpressey, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-OjTPj7K54&fmt=18
21:43:28 <cpressey> Along the lines of modern-but-still-"art/chamber", anyone like Penguin Cafe Orchestra?
21:43:40 <AnMaster> hiato, you too
21:43:46 <hiato> even so, I have found maybe five rap songs out of aa good three hundred that I like
21:43:47 <AnMaster> hiato, and that is because of lyrics
21:43:51 <AnMaster> not because of the music
21:43:58 <hiato> cpressey: love penguin cafe
21:44:15 <lament> AnMaster: lyrics are part of it duh
21:44:19 <cpressey> hiato: Ha! Suspected so.
21:44:21 <AnMaster> lament, yes
21:44:23 <AnMaster> lament, ...
21:44:24 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro <-- PCO
21:44:26 <hiato> cpressey: really?
21:44:33 <AnMaster> lament, I said I only liked it because of it's lyrics
21:44:36 <hiato> AnMaster: wiat, me too what?
21:44:40 <cpressey> hiato: Taste intersection :)
21:44:50 <AnMaster> hiato, the link I gave just amove it
21:44:52 <AnMaster> above*
21:44:53 <lament> i only like bach because of its melody
21:44:57 <lament> lolwut!
21:45:10 <hiato> cpressey: it would seem so :)
21:45:19 <hiato> AnMaster: I see, youtubing now
21:45:49 <hiato> cpressey: ever heard of apocalyptica?
21:46:02 -!- coppro has joined.
21:46:39 <cpressey> hiato: I don't think so...
21:46:45 <hiato> it's four celloists, but they play connected to apms and so
21:46:48 <hiato> it's brilliant
21:47:00 <AnMaster> cpressey, so what do you think about it?
21:47:08 <cpressey> hiato: Do they do covers of Metallica?
21:47:10 <hiato> heh, catchy tune :P
21:47:13 <hiato> YES!
21:47:23 <hiato> so you have heard of them
21:47:28 <Asztal> apocalyptica are awesome :)
21:47:34 <AnMaster> hiato, cpressey ^
21:47:35 <AnMaster> ...
21:47:42 <cpressey> hiato: I think I've maybe heard recordings *by* them, but didn't know anything about the group
21:47:43 <hiato> Asztal: !!
21:47:56 <cpressey> AnMaster: It's queued up, one sec :)
21:48:12 <AnMaster> cpressey, you will actually "lol" I think
21:48:13 <lament> apocalyptica is the worst shit ever seriously
21:48:18 <hiato> AnMaster ? It's a catchy tune, but fits rignt into the "I hate men with guiatars category" though the lyrics made me smile
21:48:21 <lament> what a retarded bunch of losers
21:48:21 <hiato> lament .....
21:48:24 <AnMaster> cpressey, and I'm one of those who try to use it correctly
21:48:29 <lament> they should strange each other with their strings
21:48:35 <cpressey> Oh god this is horrible
21:48:45 <AnMaster> cpressey, the lyrics are fun though
21:49:02 <cpressey> lament: Steve would probably love this
21:49:03 <lament> apocalyptica is an injoke, you need to be a metalhead and a cellist to appreciate it and it's still only mildly funny
21:49:18 <oklokok> :D
21:49:26 <AnMaster> cpressey, so why did you call it horrible?
21:49:28 <hiato> lament, er, right, still sounds good to me
21:49:35 <lament> well
21:49:43 <cpressey> AnMaster: CHEESY
21:49:44 <lament> say some apocalyptica cover of metallica
21:49:44 <AnMaster> cpressey, I assume it was that lisp one?
21:49:46 <lament> MIGHT sound okay
21:49:48 <oklokok> hiato: you see *lament* is an injoke
21:49:51 <lament> but the original sounds better
21:49:54 <cpressey> AnMaster: YES
21:49:56 <AnMaster> cpressey, define that
21:49:59 * cpressey is drowning in cheese
21:50:02 <lament> so all apocalyptica achieved is to make a piece of music worse
21:50:05 <hiato> oklokok: it's all starting to make sense :P
21:50:11 <lament> cpressey: probably, judging by the title, but i can't listen at work
21:50:12 * AnMaster looks for a dictionary
21:50:33 -!- dougx has joined.
21:50:36 <AnMaster> I never bother to look up what "cheesy" meant except in a culinary context
21:50:51 <AnMaster> cpressey, since I'm unable to locate a dictionary atm could you explain it
21:51:32 <hiato> AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTD2lKew4iI&feature=related
21:52:21 <cpressey> (oh god it's long, too. six minutes of programming language-based filk is wayyyy too much.)
21:52:38 <cpressey> Um, lessee. Define "cheesy". Well..
21:52:41 <AnMaster> hiato, what an overly dramatic video. also
21:52:44 <AnMaster> WHAT THE HELLL
21:52:57 <AnMaster> hiato, it is a complete disaster after 00:33 or so
21:53:02 <AnMaster> a complete and utter disaster
21:53:03 <hiato> AnMaster: yes, video sucks
21:53:14 <AnMaster> hiato, I have never heard anything this bad
21:53:20 * AnMaster stops playing it
21:53:27 <AnMaster> I can not stand listening to the end of it
21:53:35 <hiato> AnMaster: your taste .[asarsarsars], my taste .{7283748923794} -> longest common subsequence = .
21:54:07 <AnMaster> hiato, didn't we both like Grieg?
21:54:18 <hiato> yep :P that dot was griep
21:54:21 <hiato> *grieg
21:54:25 <AnMaster> ah
21:54:32 <hiato> but, for example, have you heard flanders and swann?
21:54:43 <AnMaster> hiato, US?
21:54:46 <cpressey> Man, "cheesy" is hard to define
21:54:52 <AnMaster> hiato, the names are not familiar at all
21:54:53 <hiato> UK!
21:54:59 <AnMaster> hiato, well I live in Sweden so...
21:55:01 <cpressey> "of poor quality through being overdramatic, excessively emotional or clichéd, trite, contrived, shoddy" (wiktionary)
21:55:05 <AnMaster> hiato, when did they live?
21:55:07 <hiato> yeah, sixties-ish entertainers
21:55:08 <hiato> uk
21:55:09 <cpressey> But that doesn't capture it
21:55:11 <AnMaster> oh
21:55:14 <AnMaster> that explains it
21:55:32 <AnMaster> hiato, I do like Tom Leherer (spelling?) though
21:55:35 <AnMaster> American
21:55:46 <AnMaster> hiato, both nice music and nice lyrics
21:55:47 <hiato> Yeah, Lehrer
21:55:52 <hiato> brialliant
21:55:55 <AnMaster> hiato, indeed
21:56:11 <AnMaster> whoever posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro
21:56:11 <hiato> you'll probably like flanders an swann
21:56:15 <AnMaster> that one wasn't too bad
21:56:18 <AnMaster> relatively speaking
21:56:18 <hiato> they came up with the hippo song
21:56:22 <AnMaster> so far at least
21:56:31 <AnMaster> well it gets worse a bit in
21:56:39 <AnMaster> sounds like percussion?
21:56:48 <hiato> AnMaster: have you seen funny bones?
21:56:53 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2N_tmH6y7ng <-- there's some more cheese, but instrumental.
21:57:06 <AnMaster> which really doesn't have anything to do in music except the occasional bong in Ravel's Bolero or such
21:57:15 <AnMaster> hiato, never heard about it
21:57:30 <AnMaster> cpressey, queued
21:57:36 <AnMaster> cpressey, also did you like the lyrics or not?
21:57:45 <hiato> related videos (from perpetuum mobile) -> how to build hover shoes
21:57:53 <AnMaster> hiato, ^_^
21:58:05 <AnMaster> hiato, but what is that music btw?
21:58:15 <hiato> which, that harmonium thing?
21:58:21 <hiato> or funnybones?
21:58:36 <AnMaster> ...
21:58:43 <AnMaster> "perpetuum mobile"
21:58:44 <hiato> er?
21:58:45 <AnMaster> ...
21:58:48 <Gregor> Wow, wait, we're still talking about music?
21:58:50 <hiato> what is it?
21:59:12 <hiato> Gregor: well there's at least 1000 years to get through
21:59:17 <Gregor> :P
21:59:35 <AnMaster> whoever posted http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 : quite nice so far
21:59:58 <cpressey> AnMaster: I will say they are the most intensely programming-language-related lyrics I have heard yet.
22:00:03 <AnMaster> harpsichord?
22:00:08 <hiato> thttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXzuIsxb64 <- YUGH!
22:00:10 <AnMaster> it doesn't sound like piano
22:00:22 <hiato> yeah
22:00:25 <AnMaster> cpressey, I remember some about qbasic btw
22:00:26 <hiato> or honky-tonk
22:00:32 <cpressey> Of course, my main point of comparison is Guy Steele's "Lambda Bound" (to the tune of "Homeward Bound")
22:00:33 <AnMaster> hiato, it was quite a nice sound
22:00:35 <AnMaster> IMO
22:00:37 <AnMaster> hiato, :)
22:00:44 <AnMaster> hiato, in fact wonderful sound
22:00:49 <AnMaster> I like harpsichord
22:01:01 <hiato> this trumps all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4&feature=player_embedded#
22:01:31 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:02:11 <AnMaster> hiato, cpressey, lament, Gregor: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpH0QnVQi0A&fmt=18
22:02:12 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
22:02:17 <AnMaster> not the best recording
22:02:23 <AnMaster> also the C sharp minor version is better yet
22:02:26 <cpressey> hiato: Yes, it probably does.
22:02:26 <hiato> AnMaster: watch my last one damnit!
22:02:29 <AnMaster> but couldn't find it on youtube
22:02:31 <AnMaster> hiato, queued
22:02:31 <hiato> cpressey: :D
22:02:44 * Gregor runs
22:02:46 <AnMaster> Gregor, what one?
22:02:49 <hiato> I invoke ajump
22:02:56 <Gregor> Oh yeah, I've heard this.
22:03:00 <Gregor> It's very ... classical.
22:03:04 <AnMaster> Gregor, :)
22:03:05 <hiato> whose?
22:03:07 <AnMaster> wonderful isn't it?
22:03:16 <AnMaster> if it is the one I linked last
22:03:18 <lament> not watching youtube at work, what is it?
22:03:24 <cpressey> Too bad you can't actually queue youtube videos (in a simple way)
22:03:26 <Gregor> Frankly I'm not much of a classical guy, I much prefer the romantic era.
22:03:27 <AnMaster> lament, Joseph Martin Kraus
22:03:41 <lament> oh
22:03:54 <AnMaster> cpressey, you can. Open in separate tabs. Copy the urls to youtube-dl -b command
22:04:02 <AnMaster> cpressey, since you don't have flash installed
22:04:03 <AnMaster> :P
22:04:43 <AnMaster> cpressey, hiato Gregor: oi! This contains both C minor and C# minor versions after each other: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhA7NRZTZ0
22:04:46 <AnMaster> so you can compare
22:04:56 <AnMaster> remember to add &fmt=18 to that of course
22:04:58 <hiato> AnMaster: I must say, it's pleasant, but not my style
22:05:01 <Gregor> That one I listened to the last time you linked it :P
22:05:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, the comparing one?
22:05:09 <AnMaster> hm maybe
22:05:31 <cpressey> Ok, listening to Kraus now, and...
22:05:37 <Gregor> AnMaster: Now take the two versions and overlay them.
22:06:15 <AnMaster> Gregor, sound quality is better in http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbhA7NRZTZ0&fmt=35
22:06:20 <AnMaster> that is the best version of it
22:06:21 <AnMaster> :)
22:06:27 <AnMaster> it seems
22:06:29 <Gregor> AnMaster: That's not both versions too, is it?
22:06:38 <AnMaster> Gregor, that is both versions separately yes
22:06:48 <Gregor> Does everybody play both versions? :P
22:06:50 <AnMaster> Gregor, I just forget to add &fmt=35 to it
22:06:54 <Gregor> Oh, that's the same link, durp
22:06:54 <AnMaster> -_-
22:07:41 <hiato> AnMaster: to put things back in perspective: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_hOR50u7ek one of my all time fvourites
22:07:58 <AnMaster> cpressey listened to that "cheesy" one, don't get what you mean at all
22:08:01 <cpressey> It's pretty good. But it's hard to see how it would not be called equally "pompous" when say Tschiakovsky would
22:08:28 <Gregor> "It sounds less ... gay than Tchaikovsky"
22:08:49 <AnMaster> Gregor, everything does
22:09:01 <hiato> I take offense
22:09:06 <oklokok> your mom is less way than tchaikovsky
22:09:19 <cpressey> AnMaster: programming language are not something to sing about
22:09:25 <Gregor> Is "way" some crazy Finnish ... way ... to say "gay"?
22:09:30 <hiato> Marche slave is brilliant, the 1812 is fantiastic, swan lake is unrivaled
22:09:38 <AnMaster> <hiato> this trumps all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4&feature=player_embedded# <-- on instrument awesomeness yes
22:09:42 <AnMaster> but what is the music
22:09:45 <oklokok> i typoed it and realized it was better that way
22:09:53 <hiato> Queen, bohemian rhapsody
22:10:17 <Gregor> hiato: I take offense to the fact that you assume I meant "gay" negatively, and not simply that all of his music is imbued with his gayness :P
22:10:27 <hiato> Bahahaah!
22:10:32 <hiato> I actually laughed out loud
22:10:39 <AnMaster> hiato, and what is that instrument in that video?
22:10:43 <hiato> at, whatever it is here, er, ten past 10
22:10:52 <hiato> *12
22:11:00 <hiato> AnMaster: it's a scanner
22:11:06 <hiato> and a floppy disk drive
22:11:07 <AnMaster> hiato, old one indeed
22:11:20 <AnMaster> hiato, also some other instruments I suspect?
22:11:31 <hiato> well, the oscilliscope buzzes
22:11:38 <hiato> and the tape drive sort of clicks
22:11:57 <hiato> and then there's that static melody sound from the waveform gen I assume
22:12:25 <AnMaster> hiato, heck that digital scope looks very similar to the ones we have at university
22:12:34 <AnMaster> just looks ours is one or two models after it
22:12:49 <hiato> and now, without further adue, and before I offend the possibly homo Gregor again, I must leave, got an early morning tomorrow
22:12:52 <AnMaster> (or they didn't change much)
22:12:54 <hiato> but cheers all, twas fun
22:13:00 <hiato> AnMaster: ooooh, that sucks :P
22:13:06 <AnMaster> hiato, oh?
22:13:12 <AnMaster> hiato, it was the digital ones at least
22:13:13 <AnMaster> !
22:13:23 <AnMaster> hiato, also introductory course
22:13:32 <oklokok> tomorrow i'll sleep till noon and never wake up!
22:13:32 <AnMaster> I think there are other ones as well
22:13:36 <hiato> heh, digital >= 1921 (invention of transistor)
22:13:42 -!- alise has joined.
22:13:44 <alise> 08:09:23 <scarf> it seems like every ten seconds it parks itself, then pops up a little dialog box to let you know it parked
22:13:46 <AnMaster> hiato, I meant the one with the square display
22:13:48 <alise> I disabled the dialog box.
22:13:56 <hiato> wow, delay
22:13:58 <hiato> anyway, cheers
22:14:02 <AnMaster> hiato, cia
22:14:04 <AnMaster> cya*
22:14:08 <AnMaster> -_-
22:14:10 <cpressey> Hi alise, would you like to talk about music?
22:14:17 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:14:37 <alise> Um... sure? For what particular reason?
22:15:13 <cpressey> Past ~3 hrs, that's all the channel has been talking about.
22:15:36 <cpressey> And some people seemed annoyed by this.
22:15:39 <AnMaster> alise, hiato posted this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht96HJ01SE4
22:15:40 <cpressey> So it was kind of an in-joke.
22:15:41 <AnMaster> awesome
22:15:53 <AnMaster> cpressey, so what did you think about Kraus btw?
22:16:12 <alise> what kind of musical discussion?
22:16:29 <AnMaster> alise, pre-1900 mostly with a few more modern mentions
22:16:46 <alise> Since you said that, I'll take it to mean "contemporary pop music".
22:16:49 <AnMaster> alise, very music "which is the best (vulgar sense) classical composer"
22:16:54 <cpressey> AnMaster: He's OK. Like I said, he seems almost as "pompous" as any romantic, Russian composer to me.
22:17:00 <alise> "Best" is such a vulgar word.
22:17:21 <AnMaster> cpressey, hardly. Well that recording maybe. I suggest you listen to the recording I have at home
22:17:32 <AnMaster> cpressey, which was performed by chamber "orchestra"
22:17:36 <AnMaster> cpressey, sounds much better
22:17:41 <alise> Allow me to inject some true vulgarity into the discussion: Autechre have a new album out.
22:17:56 <AnMaster> alise, yeargh
22:18:11 <AnMaster> cpressey, look what you done. alise is the one who likes *really* weird music
22:18:17 <alise> Eat bleeps and die, AnMaster!
22:18:26 <alise> Hey, cpressey mentioned KFDforgotten the rest of the name.
22:18:32 <alise> So we're only seven lightyears apart.
22:18:33 <AnMaster> alise, you admitted that yourself a bit before
22:18:35 <AnMaster> well
22:18:39 <AnMaster> quite some time ago
22:18:43 <alise> From my position you're not even in the observable universe
22:19:32 <cpressey> If you want to get into modern music, yes, I like KMFDM. And Rage Against the Machine. And Bad Religion. And Rammstein.
22:19:44 <cpressey> Which is sort of a paradigm shift away from "classical"
22:20:03 <cpressey> I don't think I've ever heard of Autechre
22:20:12 <fizzie> Mwah, a bot-tweet: "About NetHack: slay, a long sword is not a number! i am. xander: let go of frodo, and of knowledge, including mit and stanford, and he..." Yes, a long sword and a number indeed have some crucial differences.
22:21:21 -!- dougx has left (?).
22:21:22 <cpressey> fizzie: Is that fungot, or is there another twitterbot out there somewhere that fungot is having a conversation with?
22:22:19 <fizzie> It was fungot. Or, well, the same babbling-algorithm, anyway; it's not exactly the same script that's doing the tweeting.
22:23:09 <fizzie> But a twitter account called "theirctrout" had slapped fungot a bit with a large trout, for some reason; possibly because it mentioned the word IRC in there.
22:23:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, is the script written in befunge?
22:23:55 <fizzie> Twungot actually replies to all mentions of its name, so it said "@theirctrout should be called when the tracer tries to write moving code? hah. foxfire, throw is broken. c supports it however you want" as a reply.
22:23:55 <alise> Autechre is basically the result of catting /dev/random to /dev/audio.
22:24:01 <alise> Well, the later stuff, at least.
22:24:25 <AnMaster> <alise> Autechre is basically the result of catting /dev/random to /dev/audio. <-- see, I said you preferred the weird music
22:24:27 <cpressey> alise: It does sound a little random, to me.
22:24:43 <fizzie> AnMaster: Not (yet). I was tempted by the easiness of doing the Twitter API bits with a normal language. Maybe I'll Funge-98 it later.
22:24:53 <cpressey> I'm promoting Penguin Cafe Orchestra, here.
22:25:06 <AnMaster> cpressey, what is that?
22:25:06 <alise> Listening to a 30 second snippet sort of defeats the point of seeing all the motifs being randomly shuffled about.
22:25:14 <alise> But then you have to be crazy anyway.
22:25:50 <cpressey> AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FvbCV6E0Wro <-- you might like them, it's sort of modern chamber music.
22:26:07 <AnMaster> cpressey, if that was the one you linked before?
22:26:09 <AnMaster> then yes
22:26:12 <AnMaster> I liked it
22:26:14 <cpressey> Yes.
22:26:20 <pikhq> Hail.
22:26:26 <AnMaster> cpressey, a bit too much hits of percussion though
22:27:17 <cpressey> this one's weirder: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygIVDql8Bk
22:27:38 <AnMaster> cpressey, well yeah. I don't really like that one
22:28:14 <AnMaster> cpressey, also very weird video
22:28:41 <cpressey> Yyyyyyyes.
22:28:51 <AnMaster> cpressey, but the music alone is weird
22:30:33 <AnMaster> cpressey, anything good by them apart from the first one?
22:32:25 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpBs8q9iZQ is OK
22:32:45 <cpressey> Has an organ in it though (well, a harmonium)
22:33:19 <cpressey> I like this one! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqBHWOzNBU8
22:33:28 <Gregor> One must be gay to not use "gay" as an insult? Hm.
22:33:55 <AnMaster> cpressey, this one is pretty wtf (the movie): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLQYnyvN6fA
22:34:16 <pikhq> Using the word "gay" in an entirely appropriate and non-pejorative manner makes me quite gay.
22:34:49 <augur> pikhq: it also makes you quite ay.
22:34:51 <augur> gay.
22:35:03 <Sgeo> I think I'm in love with Ruby's throw/catch
22:35:14 <augur> ive never used it
22:35:16 <alise> Sgeo: nobody uses it. also it's different from begin/rescue for no reason
22:35:44 <Sgeo> I imagine that throw/catch would be used for non-exceptional flow
22:35:51 <Sgeo> And begin/rescue for dealing with errors
22:35:55 <Asztal> I didn't know it even had throw/catch :/
22:36:27 <Sgeo> If I'm in the middle of a loop asking for user input, I can see myself using it for when the user does a quit thing
22:36:27 <AnMaster> <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqpBs8q9iZQ is OK <-- well, too much pop somehow
22:36:32 <AnMaster> cpressey, maybe it is the clear beat
22:37:01 <AnMaster> cpressey, the type of music I prefer don't use percussion to mark the beat
22:37:17 <alise> Sgeo: nobody uses it
22:37:20 <alise> also: "break"
22:37:38 <Sgeo> Suppose it's in a nested loop, and I want to directly leave the inner one, then
22:37:46 <Sgeo> erm, leave both
22:38:57 * cpressey goes back to Mendelssohn
22:39:24 <Sgeo> Also, I love Ruby's Fibers
22:39:39 <AnMaster> fibers?
22:39:56 <AnMaster> cpressey, Kraus ftw. With proper chamber orchestra
22:44:56 <alise> 09:50:17 <Gregor> I wonder which language Swiss reduces to 'ch' in ...
22:44:59 <alise> latin
22:45:03 <alise> confederico (sp) helvetica
22:45:07 <alise> no swiss language
22:45:09 <Gregor> alise: That was answered a long time ago :P
22:45:11 <alise> well maybe an old one
22:45:13 <alise> Gregor: :P
22:47:22 <AnMaster> cpressey, this was one good recording of vivaldi's summer (last movement) btw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u12_M4I2KxE&fmt=18
22:48:24 <cpressey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7F4z8FV6ME <-- my absolute favourite of Beethoven.
22:48:43 <AnMaster> cpressey, queued!
22:49:10 <cpressey> AnMaster: likewise
22:49:49 <AnMaster> cpressey, the recording of vivaldi's summer that I prefer is different
22:49:53 <AnMaster> have the cd next to me
22:49:58 <AnMaster> it isn't even naxos
22:52:16 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:52:50 <AnMaster> cpressey, http://musicbrainz.org/release/d875de37-cb74-4c2b-8218-399cd64cfa4f.html
22:53:27 <AnMaster> cpressey, this cd it seems http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=169771
22:55:07 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:55:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, that is the best recording of the four seasons I have yet heard
22:55:40 <AnMaster> cpressey, as for your Beethoven link. Meh
22:55:47 <AnMaster> cpressey, nice bg music
22:56:01 <AnMaster> but not something I will remember 2 minutes after
22:56:17 <Sgeo> Annoyance: There are two Ruby channels
22:56:26 <AnMaster> Sgeo, oh? are there?
22:56:36 <AnMaster> we need to add one more then
22:56:39 <Sgeo> The only distinctions are the people in them and the name. And one is "official", but that doesn't make it more active
22:56:45 <Sgeo> #ruby and #ruby-lang
22:57:01 <coppro> let's make #ruby-real
22:57:08 <Sgeo> 315 in #ruby 317 in #ruby-lang
22:57:15 <cpressey> AnMaster: this is a rather violent rendition of "Summer"
22:58:48 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:59:18 <AnMaster> cpressey, indeed!
22:59:24 <AnMaster> cpressey, but I love it
22:59:48 <AnMaster> cpressey, the one "best recording" is somewhere in between the normal tempo and that "violent" one
22:59:53 * cpressey goes back to his "background" music
23:02:35 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/vg/zee5.ogg Background music!
23:02:36 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:03:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:04:05 <AnMaster> cpressey, I agree that Kraus youtube video is somewhat pompous yes. I really should dcc you the flac I have of it locally!
23:04:07 <AnMaster> :/
23:05:59 * cpressey never knows what to make of Gregor's compositions
23:06:13 <Sgeo> Gregor, I think I've heard that before
23:06:20 <Sgeo> Is that the one you were using to test that thing?
23:06:41 <Gregor> Sgeo: Yeah.
23:06:49 <AnMaster> cpressey, I love some of them
23:07:39 * AnMaster listen to this last one
23:07:53 <AnMaster> Gregor, square wave?!
23:07:59 <Gregor> Sawtooth.
23:08:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, :((((((((((((((((
23:08:20 <Gregor> This is supposed to be pseudo-retro-video-game music.
23:08:20 <AnMaster> Gregor, sine wave is the only correct shape for music!
23:08:27 <Gregor> Poor horns :P
23:08:28 <cpressey> I keep seeing dancers in trenchcoats and fedoras on an elevated stage
23:08:40 <AnMaster> Gregor, and yes okay in that capacity...
23:08:48 <Sgeo> lol
23:08:51 <AnMaster> Gregor, but then it should be more beepy
23:08:56 <Sgeo> Someone linked somewhere.. osgeo.org
23:09:02 <cpressey> It must be the finger snaps
23:09:02 <Gregor> AnMaster: Hence "pseudo"
23:09:09 <AnMaster> Gregor, all all of it should be such
23:10:03 <Sgeo> And it's something I'm not necessarily opposed to!
23:10:05 <Gregor> Try a different style and everybody just complains :P
23:10:11 <Sgeo> [Sgeo also stands for Sacred Geometry]
23:10:18 <Gregor> How 'bout http://codu.org/music/vg/zee3.ogg
23:10:19 * cpressey wasn't complaining
23:10:35 * cpressey was hallucinating mildly, is all
23:10:39 <Gregor> lol
23:11:00 <AnMaster> Gregor, I just dislike non-sine :(
23:11:28 <Gregor> Sine wave is so DULL.
23:11:32 <Gregor> No friggin' overtones.
23:11:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, I accept cos too!
23:11:54 <AnMaster> <Gregor> How 'bout http://codu.org/music/vg/zee3.ogg <-- nice
23:12:44 <Gregor> May or may not be playable on a real accordion :P
23:13:02 <cpressey> Well, whatever the reason, Gregor's music makes me hallucinate
23:13:07 <AnMaster> Gregor, heh
23:13:19 <AnMaster> cpressey, what do you see?
23:13:39 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:13:46 <cpressey> A log cabin in the woods
23:13:55 <AnMaster> Gregor, what about real instruments? they get overtones?
23:14:00 <Sgeo> Gregor, why isn't op12 listed on codu.org/music?
23:14:07 <Gregor> AnMaster: Uhhh, yes?
23:14:12 <Gregor> Sgeo: It's not finished, that's a work in progress preview.
23:14:16 <AnMaster> Gregor, and why can't you get that on sine?
23:14:27 <Gregor> AnMaster: The mathematical properties of sine waves.
23:14:40 <Sgeo> AnMaster, how do you know about Sine waves?
23:14:41 <Gregor> Their perfection is their imperfection.
23:14:42 <Sgeo> erm, Sine?
23:14:51 <Gregor> Sgeo: Stop being an idiot :P
23:14:52 <AnMaster> Gregor, so do something closer to real instruments then?
23:14:59 <Gregor> OK, I'll go with ... a sawtooth wave.
23:15:01 <Sgeo> Gregor, I'm allowed to be silly
23:15:06 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I know about sine too btw
23:15:21 <cpressey> I see no reason this couldn't be played on a real accordion (not that I can play accordion)
23:15:28 <AnMaster> Sgeo, the issue is we can't detect when you are genuinely idiotic or when you are just silly
23:15:49 <Sgeo> How often am I genuinely idiotic? :(
23:15:54 <Gregor> cpressey: There's the issue, I have no idea what the limits of a real accordion are :P
23:16:11 * AnMaster gets the other zee*.ogg
23:16:24 <Gregor> Eh, the rest are less good than those two.
23:16:31 <AnMaster> Gregor, too late
23:16:36 <AnMaster> Gregor, ooh I like zee1!
23:16:54 <AnMaster> Gregor, but what is that "weird" instrument
23:17:01 <cpressey> Gregor: Well, it's basically a keyboard with a 2- to 3- octave range, I believe. The buttons add "pre-programmed" chords iirc.
23:17:01 <Gregor> "Ice rain", it's a synth effect.
23:17:05 <AnMaster> Gregor, ah
23:17:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, low quality sound fount for zee1?
23:17:43 <Gregor> cpressey: Yes, but the pre-programmed chords available vary, to my knowledge, from instrument to instrument. They certainly include a fifth, major and minor thirds, sevenths and augmented sevenths, but beyond that, Idonno.
23:17:44 <AnMaster> or meant to be that way?
23:18:10 <Gregor> AnMaster: For which instrument? I actually downgraded the piano intentionally, the accordion is good, the others were the best I could find.
23:18:23 <AnMaster> Gregor, piano mainly
23:18:31 <AnMaster> but okay
23:18:37 <Gregor> Yeah, the piano I downgraded because the others were OK-ish but not great, and the piano stood out too much ;P
23:18:43 <Sgeo> The .. pacing of a bit of zee1 is a bit off-putting, but other than that, it's a bit nice
23:18:50 <AnMaster> Gregor, all needs to be perfect piano level
23:18:53 <AnMaster> Gregor, kind of
23:19:20 <AnMaster> Sgeo, how is the pacing "off-putting"
23:19:29 <AnMaster> what is off-putting is that it ends in the middle of a tone
23:19:41 <Gregor> AnMaster: zee* loop
23:19:45 <cpressey> Hm, it's been a hell of a long time since I've written any music. Most of my compositions are lost due to various forms of data loss.
23:19:48 <AnMaster> Gregor, aha!
23:19:50 <Sgeo> It's just.. awkward, somehow
23:19:59 <AnMaster> Sgeo, no it is not
23:20:10 <AnMaster> it is perfect except for needing higher quality samples
23:20:13 <Sgeo> Maybe not pacing, but I keep getting the impression that bits are not aligned with other bits temporally, or something
23:20:18 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee2 is interesting
23:20:35 <AnMaster> Gregor, what are the instruments in zee2? Does it include xylophone?
23:21:03 <Gregor> Marimba.
23:21:11 <AnMaster> Gregor, is that something similar?
23:21:21 <cpressey> Half the things I wrote were saved in a proprietary format for a software package that doesn't even install properly on any windows since Windows 95.
23:21:25 <Gregor> IIRC, a marimba is basically identical to a xylophone except that it has resonators.
23:21:37 <AnMaster> ah
23:21:39 <Gregor> At least, the means by which it produces a tone is basically identical, the layout is a bit different.
23:22:15 <cpressey> Also, marimba tends to be played with felt-covered mallets, iirc
23:22:33 <cpressey> Oh wait, so does xylo.
23:22:36 <cpressey> I was thinking glock.
23:22:44 <cpressey> Metal against metal
23:22:49 <cpressey> Very pretty.
23:22:50 <Gregor> cpressey: The marimba is to the xylophone as the vibraphone is to the glockenspiel.
23:23:13 <Gregor> Conversely, the marimba is to the vibraphone as the xylophone is to the glockenspiel.
23:23:42 <cpressey> Percussion instrument homomorphisms
23:23:54 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee4 is interesting
23:24:11 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee2 was a bit nervous if you see what I mea
23:24:12 <AnMaster> mean*
23:24:20 <Gregor> I haven't a clue :P
23:24:22 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee1 was best IMO
23:24:23 <Sgeo> AnMaster, you passed zee3. I take it that zee3 isn't particularly interesting?
23:24:33 <AnMaster> Sgeo, we went over that one first didn't we?
23:24:38 <Sgeo> Oh, right
23:24:55 <cpressey> Ayy zee1 now I'm in Eastern Europe somewhere, possibly Prague
23:25:05 <AnMaster> oh?
23:25:09 <AnMaster> I didn't feel that
23:25:13 <cpressey> Someone is trying to sell me a watch!
23:25:18 <AnMaster> but zee1 with better samples = total win
23:25:43 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee4: Wait, why are we playing Perfect Dark in an n64 emulator?
23:25:46 <AnMaster> :P
23:25:50 <Gregor> ?
23:25:57 <AnMaster> Gregor, it makes me think of that game
23:26:10 <AnMaster> Gregor, never played it?
23:26:12 <Gregor> Nope
23:26:20 <Gregor> Did its music too use a heartbeat as a percussive instrument?
23:26:26 <AnMaster> Gregor, some levels have some music in the same style
23:26:29 <AnMaster> Gregor, no
23:26:35 <AnMaster> but other parts of it
23:26:41 <AnMaster> was similar
23:27:06 <AnMaster> Gregor, or it *MIGHT* have. I don't know
23:27:54 <Sgeo> Apparently, asking in ruby why the channel exists is a Frequently Asked Question, considering how someone said "We need an FAQ"
23:28:08 <AnMaster> Gregor, so total ordering: zee1 (needs better samples) > zee4 > the rest
23:28:52 <Gregor> Gee, my favorites didn't even make the list :P
23:29:06 <AnMaster> Gregor, not my fault :P
23:30:19 <AnMaster> Gregor, I think zee3 was at the bottom
23:30:23 <AnMaster> zee5 just above it
23:30:27 <Gregor> Wow X-D
23:30:30 <AnMaster> so that leaves zee2 in between
23:30:44 * Sgeo finds it somewhat difficult to form opinions sometimes
23:30:52 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
23:31:16 <AnMaster> Gregor, and zee2 felt towards the end like the performer had nervous reactions or something
23:31:40 <AnMaster> Gregor, I think it is the fast paced playing on Marimba that does it
23:31:52 <AnMaster> Gregor, apart from that zee2 is quite nice
23:32:48 <AnMaster> Gregor, oh and I don't really like accordion
23:32:55 <Gregor> Bahaha
23:33:00 <Gregor> But there's accordion in zee1 :P
23:33:10 <AnMaster> Gregor, well, not as noticable
23:33:24 <Gregor> Because it's not playing like an accordion.
23:33:31 <Gregor> In zee3 it's actually playing like an accordion.
23:33:33 <AnMaster> Gregor, that explains it!
23:35:32 <AnMaster> Gregor, zee5 could raise a lot of you could get a nicer wave form but keep the electronic feel
23:35:53 <AnMaster> Gregor, or maybe just fuzz out it or something
23:36:07 <AnMaster> so it didn't poke you in the ear basically
23:37:12 <AnMaster> night →
23:39:24 <cpressey> zee5 > zee3 > zee1 > zee2 > zee4
23:42:56 -!- jcp has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:44:53 <cpressey> Sorry, I can't even get to the end of zee4.
23:45:06 <Sgeo> They took call/cc out of Ruby :(
23:45:34 <cpressey> Sgeo: I thought someone told me here the other day they decided to put it back in
23:45:59 <Sgeo> o.O?
23:46:00 -!- jcp has joined.
23:46:10 <Gregor> They will be removing and re-adding it to every other version from now on.
23:47:34 <cpressey> hey, I can't blame them, I waffle plenty on my own designs
23:51:01 <pikhq> call/cc, though.
23:53:06 <cpressey> I can imagine the arguments that must go on about it, on their mailing list.
23:53:40 <cpressey> "No one uses that!" "I do!" "It's hard to implement efficiently on the JVM!" "That shouldn't be a consideration!" etc
23:53:47 <pikhq> "call/cc is hard!"
23:53:54 <cpressey> basically, yes.
23:53:56 <pikhq> "LOL USE LISP"
23:53:59 <Gregor> "I'll call/cc your MOM hard!"
23:54:00 <cpressey> continuations make the baby jesus cry
23:54:13 <pikhq> cpressey: That's quite ridiculous.
23:54:19 <pikhq> Baby Jesus invented continuations.
23:54:40 <cpressey> pikhq: Sorry, I missed quote marks on that one.
23:54:46 <cpressey> And it was an actual quote, too
23:54:52 <pikhq> Ah.
23:55:14 <pikhq> Continuations are, like, the ultimate form of flow control.
23:55:33 <cpressey> Anonymous feedback from a classmate from when I took a programming languages class a few years ago
23:56:05 <Sgeo> You take classes in which they teach continuations?
23:56:08 * Sgeo is jealous
23:57:05 <cpressey> Yes, it was nice of them. They *almost* managed to teach us monads in that cirriculum, too.
23:57:07 <cpressey> *Almost*.
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