< 1268352702 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268352757 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268352922 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268354778 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1268355042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1268355694 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268358492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1268359443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268359523 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268361531 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268362162 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268362517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268362552 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268362561 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268362612 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268363333 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1268365241 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1268365431 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-162-148-4.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268365990 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268366519 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-162-149-185.range86-162.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268366648 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1268366662 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1268367404 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268367434 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those people on #ubuntu won't help me I need to make a autorun CD that can download the following program from the internet: http://wiki.freegeekvancouver.org/w/index.php?action=raw&ctype=text/css&title=Qc.sh < 1268367453 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-155-78-33.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268367522 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1268367522 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1268367910 0 :adu!~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268367990 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268368162 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1268369235 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268369242 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I would like to see if you can like this game and if you can figure it out: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/100level.zip < 1268369444 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268369743 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268370659 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1268371215 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1268371609 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268376485 0 :Libster!~Libster@pool-173-73-27-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268376490 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1268376535 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hi Quadrescence didn't know you were in here too < 1268376562 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Libster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An5afQemAV4 < 1268377278 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268377304 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-230-128.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1268377594 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268377919 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i spam this channel [ ] yes [ ] no < 1268377967 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh don't have the energy to troll here tonight < 1268377969 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268379524 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router. < 1268380253 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268380614 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268380799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1268380800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1268382257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1268383733 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: omghaahhahaohwow < 1268383935 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268383938 0 :cheater!~cheater@62.176.155.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268384721 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1268384883 0 :lament!~lament@S0106001b63f462cc.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268386133 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268386137 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In 1990, for instance, Cristopher Moore devised a kind of idealized pin-ball machine which is capable of universal computation." < 1268386139 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duuuuude < 1268386148 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why didn't anyone implement that! < 1268386286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it requires a frictionless environment and perfect aim and timing, I imagine. < 1268386304 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previous work is from 1982 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiard-ball_computer < 1268386307 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, a powered computer can overcome such concerns. < 1268386333 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written two different programming language specs based on the billiard ball machine! < 1268386391 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1268386537 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To actually implement a billiard ball computer, I think you'll want an array of magnets that turn on and off periodically. < 1268386627 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be pretty easy to simulate and create. < 1268387816 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to do that. < 1268389237 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: adu < 1268389663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/0B8s9.gif < 1268395803 0 :zeotrope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268399405 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268399411 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268400244 0 :MigoMipo!~migomipo@84-217-6-128.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268400714 0 :FireFly[DS]!~nds@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268401545 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268401916 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268402751 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello esoterians < 1268402754 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you doinging < 1268402790 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1268402795 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's well < 1268402808 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, wif wata? < 1268402880 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I, like, have to go soon < 1268402917 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make since < 1268403041 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, now < 1268403043 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1268403048 0 :FireFly[DS]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ClIRC - IRC client for Nintendo DS < 1268405243 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1268407461 0 :fax!~none@amcant.demon.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1268407479 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1268407479 0 :fax!~none@unaffiliated/fax JOIN :#esoteric < 1268409309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1268409532 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament? < 1268409568 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure real analysis IS the limit of the finite calculus < 1268409855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, hm? what is real analysis about exactly? < 1268409857 0 :ais523!~ais523@147.188.254.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268409861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1268409862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1268409862 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268409884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1268409893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, suggestion: identify before joining channels. Freenode sends a fake quit nowdays for host mask changes < 1268409898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (~ais523@147.188.254.119) has joined #esoteric < 1268409899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Changing host) < 1268409899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523) has joined #esoteric < 1268409980 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, like infintesimals, or limits -- it's all about the continuum of real numbers and functions on real numbers < 1268409999 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what calculus is made of < 1268410009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, why is it called finite analysis if it works on R, (an uncountably infinite set).. < 1268410026 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1268410027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the name "real analysis" is misleading < 1268410045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, err, finite calculus < 1268410052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but same question still stands < 1268410058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the typo corrected) < 1268410076 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I explained what real analysis is < 1268410091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, yes, and then why is it called finite calculus? < 1268410092 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not a description of finite calculus < 1268410099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I am not sure real analysis IS the limit of the finite calculus < 1268410105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268410105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounded like it was more? < 1268410125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I misinterpreted what you meant originally < 1268410132 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament said that real analysis is the limit of finite calculus < 1268410141 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said, I am not sure that is so < 1268410152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, limit as in "we can't do anything more advanced using this thing"? < 1268410154 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268410161 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1268410167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, ah, as in lim? < 1268410170 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1268410197 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah now I see what you thought I meant < 1268410199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, then that whole statement sounds somewhat strange to me. < 1268410216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but then, I'm no expert on such things) < 1268410220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, right < 1268410251 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you studied real analysis? < 1268410396 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1268410458 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1268410573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1268410648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, not that I know < 1268410725 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's just exploring the convergence/divergence of sequences of real numbers, then series (running totals of sequences), then lim & integrability - the big theorem from it is l'hopital < 1268410979 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1268411042 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268411086 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are some striking similarities between the finite calculus and 'normal' calculus < 1268411219 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1268411416 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1268411470 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1268411539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: they both have a lot to do with linear algebra. both derivations are linear operators on a vector space of functions < 1268411725 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan how did you know we were talking about this!!!!! < 1268411735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the power of logs < 1268411745 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you take the log of both sides? < 1268411759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, it was rather short < 1268411889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both sides? < 1268411913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax: see what you have done? < 1268411985 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didnt' know you knew about finite calculus!!!! < 1268411991 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I had concrete maths < 1268412072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fax, wouldn't those be rather heavy and hard to handle? < 1268412084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus would take a lot of time to dry I guess < 1268412108 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep on thinking that #esoteric looks very much like #erotic < 1268412155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, Freud perhaps? < 1268412164 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1268412168 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this brings us to OMG PONIES! < 1268412172 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pooooooooonieeeeeeeeees < 1268412178 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an esolang for PONIES? < 1268412184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, wait, are you ehird? < 1268412189 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1268412196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: it's that gay sex thing < 1268412197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then wth < 1268412197 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i be ehird? < 1268412212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, because of what you just said < 1268412222 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? PONIES? < 1268412225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ehird is disappeared again < 1268412230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though usually he go for pink unicorn ponies iirc < 1268412232 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is not me < 1268412243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater: well that's what you _say_ < 1268412247 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268412261 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure if i should be insulted or aroused < 1268412267 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe both < 1268412272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the latter is completely wrong < 1268412282 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so enjoyable < 1268412288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong channel < 1268412314 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268412314 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268412529 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you're the guy turning this place into #ethics < 1268412541 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1268412971 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1268413434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater, me? not afaik < 1268413446 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok :p < 1268413470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster doesn't care about ethics at _all_ < 1268413564 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268413606 0 :nooga!~nooga@87-205-54-99.adsl.inetia.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1268413773 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1268414240 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268414366 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268414585 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268414641 0 :hiato!~fdulu@dsl-245-63-253.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1268414709 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1268414725 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1268414746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In FING, does Z pop or duplicate the source < 1268414747 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1268414819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um. try his test program for FING < 1268414829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge passes it at least < 1268414835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the details < 1268414835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1268414850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and atm I'm sadly very preocupied < 1268414855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo spellin) < 1268414862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling* < 1268414971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1268414971 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 < 1268415076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could also look at efunge or cfunge source, both supports FING < 1268415097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still, use RCS's own test suite, there was some surprising semantics iirc < 1268415099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what it was < 1268415294 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, Norwegian. < 1268415315 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reading the article about flax. With the help of Wikipedia, I've mostly translated the first two sentences. < 1268415334 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somewhat literal translation: < 1268415403 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dyrka lin (Linum usitatissimum) or also simply called 'lin' is a species in the genus lin (Linum). Lin is an ettårig plant as it's been grown by humans in more than 10,000 years." < 1268415458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :som = which, not as < 1268415461 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lin" is "flax", of course, but I don't know what "ettårig" is all about. < 1268415472 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one year life < 1268415495 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "which" makes more sense. < 1268415499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, "annual" in English (as opposed to "perennial") < 1268415507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1268415531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1268415540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that instance of "i" is better translated as "for" than "in" < 1268415557 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1268415570 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the "dyrka" all about? < 1268415595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cultivated < 1268415609 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1268415646 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be neat if you called domestic cats "dyrka katt". < 1268415673 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1268415679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applies only to plants < 1268415682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, a "cultivated cat" would be one with good manners < 1268415697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tam" is the word for animals < 1268415721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katt < 1268415736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tamkatt and huskatt (house cat) < 1268415737 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd rather read about tamkatten than lin. < 1268415778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pus is like "kitty", really, don't know why they list all the variants with that < 1268415800 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1268415803 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cognate to "pussy", I imagine. < 1268415811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1268415814 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pussy kitty < 1268415825 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiaugur < 1268415839 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So in Norwegian, you have not only pussy-cats but catty-pusses? < 1268415846 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the _other_ meaning of pussy is translated as "mus" (cognate to "mouse") < 1268415879 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Tamkatten har også i noen grad gått under det vitenskapelige navnet F. s. domesticus. < 1268415891 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tamkatten has also to some extent been under the scientific name of F. s. domesticus. < 1268415942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh that's pretty good < 1268415979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you'd want a "known" after been, i think < 1268416012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tam is of course cognate to tame < 1268416019 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "noen grad gått", word for word? < 1268416024 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, fancy. < 1268416030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some degree gone < 1268416058 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Grad" is probably cognate to "grade". < 1268416067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1268416171 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1268416197 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268416210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a good feature for a web-browser, I will add is "redial URL" command. < 1268416215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes when you enter a URL or follow a hyperlink it will redirect. Using reload just reloads the current URL. < 1268416221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: norwegian "kultivert" means with good manners too < 1268416223 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the idea is that using redial it will reload the original URL instead of necessariily the current one. < 1268416245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, yes < 1268416254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how often do redirects change, anyway? < 1268416272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it should work Wikipedia-style where redirects show the original URL not the new one < 1268416309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually "kultivert" seems to be usable for plants too < 1268416353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't matter how often redirects change. (Sometimes they are random redirects, such as the "Random page" on Mediawiki) < 1268416423 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once I think how to implement, I will do so. C-R is already used for "rewind" so I can put C-E for "redial", maybe?? < 1268416430 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Den er et lite rovpattedyr i kattefamilien, og regnes i dag som en variant av afrikansk villkatt (F. s. lybica). < 1268416432 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a small rovpattedyr in the cat family, and is today considered a variant of the African wild cat (F. s. lybica). < 1268416438 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-155-78-33.range86-155.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268416454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It would be neat if you called domestic cats "dyrka katt". <-- that sounds like Egytians to me < 1268416478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: rovpattedyr = carnivore (mammal) < 1268416501 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean a carnivoran? < 1268416518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i don't know that distinction < 1268416533 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carnivorans are a clade of mammals including cats, dogs, and bears. < 1268416541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rovdyr alone means the same, except maybe not just mammals < 1268416553 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carnivores are anything that eats meat. < 1268416570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rovpattedyr < 1268416575 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good idea. < 1268416599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that article includes both with and without -patte- < 1268416601 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's the carnivorans. < 1268416601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what does dyrka mean in Norwegian? < 1268416609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cultivated, i said < 1268416620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it dyrkad in swedish? < 1268416625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "regnes i dag" literally "considered in today" or "considered in day"? < 1268416625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in Swedish it means a) worship or b) lockpicking < 1268416639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the comment about egyptians < 1268416649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in norwegian (a) dyrke (b) dirke < 1268416650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what a strange pair of words to have as homographs < 1268416677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: norw. dyrka is a past participle not an infinitive (except in some forms of nynorsk) < 1268416687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I think the latter is somewhat "not slang, but not really formal either" < 1268416697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how similar are nynorsk and bokmal, by the way? < 1268416703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutually intelligble? < 1268416733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can write them quite similarly, although there is also an option for using very strange word choices not usually in the other < 1268416741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also dyrka as worship sounds somewhat like it wouldn't have been used about Christan worship in past time. Perhaps it has a slight negative quality embedded < 1268416743 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like skillingsbolle. < 1268416745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really sure < 1268416748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some grammar endings are different < 1268416750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, pretty much like English and Scottish? < 1268416775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Like skillingsbolle. <-- is that bokmåö or nynorsk? < 1268416775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps, i'm not that familiar with scottish < 1268416781 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sort of under the impression that Nynorsk and Bokmal were simply different writing systems. < 1268416784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both i think < 1268416789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw bokmal sounds hilarious in Swedish < 1268416791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like English, except that some of the words are different < 1268416794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "book moth" < 1268416805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed an accent < 1268416814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bokmål < 1268416814 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wikipedia calls them "skillingsbolle" in Bokmal and "kanelbolle" in Nynorsk. < 1268416822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not accent... å is _not_ a with an accent < 1268416825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: "regnes i dag" = "is today considered" < 1268416827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a separate letter in the alphabet < 1268416830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1268416837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the accent is still how you /type/ it, though < 1268416837 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which word is which? < 1268416840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Diacritics are commonly called accents < 1268416847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it isn't for me. There is a key for it < 1268416850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like ä and a are different letters in German < 1268416862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in Hungarian, ly is a different letter from l (and not two letters) < 1268416864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I would say it isn't Diacritics either. Just like the dot over i isn't < 1268416867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise, ll is a letter of its own in Welsh < 1268416877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you really have to hear pronounced to know what it sounds like < 1268416877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see! < 1268416887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you still /type/ it as two ls < 1268416887 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ll still considered a separate letter in Spanish? < 1268416892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in Swedish ä is different from a too < 1268416898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for o vs. ö < 1268416909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I would say it is, since it's still got the basic glyph "a" underneath < 1268416916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you wrote Landudno rather than Llandudno, you could truthfully say you missed an l (although I'm not sure I've spelt the rest of the word correctly) < 1268416925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, then i is also an IPA symbol with a dot over it! < 1268416927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1268416938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: book moth would be bokmøll in norw. < 1268416941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is absurd < 1268416945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, right < 1268416950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, because they're different alphabets. < 1268416965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Swedish and company use both glyphs, a and å. < 1268416968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and? what about v and w? < 1268416976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: v isn't a diacritic. < 1268416976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter is vv basically < 1268416978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i don't think "skillingsbolle" vs. "kanelbolle" is really a bokmål/nynorsk distinction < 1268416980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it *looks* like it < 1268416990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be that vvay < 1268416991 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Unicode, all IPA glyphs are lowercase Latin letters. < 1268416993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1268417045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but the same argument should apply even to non-diacritics < 1268417051 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? OK < 1268417051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where one letter looks like another extended < 1268417061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i dag = today, regnes = is considered < 1268417063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, like L is l_ < 1268417086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the latter looks for a typo of "rains" to me < 1268417087 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why should it? I'm talking about diacritics. < 1268417094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, why should it *not* < 1268417123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: regne means both to rain and to calculate/consider in norwegian < 1268417170 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My point was that the ° on the å can/should be considered a diacritic in Swedish and therefore can be called an accent. I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue at the moment. < 1268417185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sense a pun. < 1268417194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: -s is a passive present ending, used in fairly formal writing < 1268417197 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey cloud, what are you doing?" "I'm considering." < 1268417216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Vi må regne med regn. < 1268417236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? it isn't considered that way though < 1268417248 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Vi må regne med regn. < 1268417251 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We must expect rain. < 1268417253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regne med = expect < 1268417267 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's med? < 1268417268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1268417270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with < 1268417271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :räkna in Swedish < 1268417280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, also the thing under sleds < 1268417284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that touches the slow < 1268417285 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: norwegian like english is cursed with phrasal verbs :D < 1268417286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1268417287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow < 1268417299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are also called "med" (medar in plural) < 1268417313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: meie in norwegian < 1268417316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1268417332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no reason to keep it at a single language is there? < 1268417366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, my point was that replacing ö with o, å with a or ä with a is *incorrect* < 1268417375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is true. < 1268417377 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So how would you say "I'm considering" or "I'm raining", if those are the same thing? < 1268417381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can quite often yield a different and valid word < 1268417386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes to hilarious effects < 1268417401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that can happen regardless of diacritic-ness. < 1268417404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes. < 1268417407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm just providing comparisons < 1268417414 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give examples of how they can yield different word < 1268417421 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Tengo 17 años. < 1268417424 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 17 years. < 1268417426 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Tengo 17 anos. < 1268417426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ais523 see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%85#Transcription < 1268417434 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tengo 17 anos. < 1268417435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1268417442 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto es en Tengo 17 anos. < 1268417451 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tengo 17 anos. < 1268417452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because å -> a is incorrect. Wrong way to transcribe it < 1268417453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: actually "I'm considering" alone does not use regne < 1268417454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know all this, I'm just arguing what the term 'diacritic' means :-P < 1268417469 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION growls at HackEgo. < 1268417471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be "consider as" -> "regne som" < 1268417478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: according to that article, it often is transcribed as "a" < 1268417480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you should use å -> aa, ä -> ae, ö -> oe I think. < 1268417485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, incorrect though < 1268417487 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how about "I'm calculating"? < 1268417500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: jeg regner, yes < 1268417508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, "jag beräknar" < 1268417517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because "räknar" is more like "counting" < 1268417518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ä/ö -> ae/oe aren't valid for Finnish, not sure about Swedish. (They are valid for German, however.) < 1268417525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps just basic +-*/ < 1268417534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: beregne is only transitive in norwegian < 1268417540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while calculating and "beräknar" sounds more like the stuff oerjan does < 1268417547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Swedish that is < 1268417563 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you transcribe Finnish, anyway? < 1268417570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not completely valid for Swedish I think < 1268417571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. :-P < 1268417591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: just don't drop the dots and rings < 1268417600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, why would you need to < 1268417603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type the ring on this keyboard, or at least don't know how < 1268417605 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes you have to < 1268417606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although umlauts are fine < 1268417610 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't have access to a Finnish keyboard, perhaps. < 1268417614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is just the same alphabet as Swedish isn't it? < 1268417629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268417633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, Well, Swedish and Finnish share keyboard layout < 1268417652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Almost: W isn't officially part of the alphabet < 1268417663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it wasn't in Swedish until very recently either < 1268417663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: "I'm considering" alone would be more likely "Jeg vurderer" < 1268417683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're considering doing something < 1268417683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which means in a lot of dictionaries w still sorts under v < 1268417691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for imported words and such) < 1268417702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just "Jeg tenker" (cognate to think) < 1268417704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sounds like "I wonder"? < 1268417712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former that is < 1268417721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that would be "Jeg undrer" < 1268417729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1268417748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "undres" < 1268417752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Wikipedia suggests that for Finnish, äö are just replaced by ao < 1268417759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then I have no clue what vurderer would be in Swedish < 1268417773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no sv vurdere < 1268417778 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedöma < 1268417803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedømme is also norwegian < 1268417827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1268417831 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Finnish looks and sounds really neat. It's too bad it's completely unrelated to English. < 1268417850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, it sounds like a tongue twister all the time to me < 1268417856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looks like it too < 1268417857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad? :-P < 1268417882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: except i don't think you can bedømme for an action you consider doing, only for judging something, which also can use vurdere < 1268417903 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means I can't learn it just by reading and using HackEgo. < 1268417960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw, in hand writing you often use ~ above the ä or ö in Swedish. that is, fast handwriting < 1268417970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes just a - if not writing neatly < 1268417976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯ < 1268417987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would look really strange outside handwriting < 1268417996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you call the handwriting where letters join together < 1268418002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed stand free of each other < 1268418003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "really" IMO but a bit, yes. < 1268418006 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cursive, here. < 1268418006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cursive < 1268418008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the former only this applies to < 1268418015 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joined-up, elsewhere. < 1268418028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skrivstil in Swedish < 1268418037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kursiv is used for italic fonts < 1268418040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok if there were any questions i missed above you'll have to repeat them :D < 1268418048 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I barely know any non-Indo-European natural languages at all. < 1268418062 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to say a couple of language in themselves. < 1268418063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: don't we all < 1268418072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can count to three on Finnish, and I know the Finnish word for Finland < 1268418073 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suomi, shqip, nihongo... < 1268418080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shqip? < 1268418084 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albanian. < 1268418088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and for Helsingfors < 1268418092 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know an Albanian guy. < 1268418100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: shqip is actually indo-european < 1268418107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you call Åbo btw? < 1268418115 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow, it is. < 1268418120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use a different name for it? < 1268418121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Turku < 1268418122 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's "skrivstil" literally? < 1268418131 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like "scribestyle" or "writestyle". < 1268418132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"writing style" :-P < 1268418138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what Deewiant said < 1268418151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which really doesn't make a lot of sense when you think about the name < 1268418173 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1268418187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are plenty of things in English that makes no sense too < 1268418192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: i recall that albanian and greek are closest relatives (a language clade? :D) < 1268418201 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albanian and Greek are related? Huh. < 1268418213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1268418227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "clade"? < 1268418229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm confusing it with armenian, which is _also_ indoeuropean < 1268418234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it in a dictionary < 1268418235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: evolutionary term < 1268418243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, meaning? < 1268418261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the set of all descendants of a common ancestor < 1268418262 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A clade is a group of all the species descended from a certain common ancestor. < 1268418274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, I lose. < 1268418283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1268418323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i learned it only from wikipedia, there seems to be an ongoing biological movement to replace the old class/order style classification with a cladistic classification < 1268418342 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm reading the Wikipedia article about kissa. I see that there are lots of long words. < 1268418343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1268418350 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of looks smeared. < 1268418358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "long" in your opinion ;-) < 1268418360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, kissa? As in sv:kissa? < 1268418368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fi:kissa, en:cat. < 1268418368 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, fi:kissa. < 1268418372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you reading an article about urination?! < 1268418374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1268418380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. reptiles are not a clade, so some don't want to use that as a classification term (it includes all descendants of a certain ancestor which are _not_ mammals or birds) < 1268418380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For science! < 1268418384 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, so that's what I was reading!" < 1268418384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is what sv:kissa means) < 1268418397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, well if it was fi:kissa I don't really know < 1268418398 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Kissoja on kesytetty ehkä jo heti maatalouteen siirtymisen jälkeen. < 1268418401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah like "kisse"? < 1268418402 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cats have been domesticated perhaps as early as immediately after the transition to agriculture. < 1268418406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like "pussy cat" < 1268418406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/i.e./e.g./ < 1268418419 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Finnish and Swedish are not exactly similar, are they. < 1268418427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, there's probably some related etymology, but no, sv:katt. < 1268418448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, apart from perhaps some words from our shared history, then no < 1268418464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Finland was a part of Sweden long ago < 1268418465 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know, they have no shared history whatsoever. < 1268418475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, see what I just said < 1268418507 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess some loanwords could have gotten swapped there. < 1268418509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: Finland was under Swedish rule for some 700 years :-P < 1268418527 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same way English has lots of Romance words even though it's a Germanic language, I guess. < 1268418537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still, why didn't we manage to get you to switch to an easier to pronounce language ;P) < 1268418541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)// < 1268418546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because we're dense like that < 1268418551 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, in that sentence about cats, I have no idea how to match the Finnish to the English. < 1268418553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1268418554 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the first word. < 1268418562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is such a ripoff-language :-P < 1268418564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, what was the first word? < 1268418571 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My guess: "kissa" < 1268418594 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first word was "kissoja". < 1268418599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn < 1268418603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, you have lots of Scandinavian words imported. Like window, from old Scandinavian vindöga (wind eye) < 1268418609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that one above < 1268418625 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Kissoja on kesytetty ehkä jo heti maatalouteen siirtymisen jälkeen." < 1268418629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, we replaced it with "fönster" later, which is a word imported from German < 1268418630 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: on kesytetty <-> have been domesticated < 1268418635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: ehkä <-> perhaps < 1268418652 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: jo <-> as early as < 1268418658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: heti <-> immediately < 1268418662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "jo <-> as early as"? < 1268418670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: maatalouteen <-> agriculture < 1268418671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a strange thing to have a two letter word for < 1268418673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very strange < 1268418675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: maatalouteen <-> to agriculture < 1268418679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(My bad) < 1268418689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: siirtymisen <-> the transition < 1268418693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: jälkeen <-> after < 1268418706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: norwegian still uses "vindu" < 1268418711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay < 1268418728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, jo <-> already < 1268418728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why does this make me thing of darth and droids btw? < 1268418730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1268418735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think* < 1268418742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mace windu of course < 1268418744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm < 1268418745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a not-that-literal translation. < 1268418748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh duh < 1268418911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Armenian although it's a disputed hypothesis < 1268419012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baah, REXP is just a binding to POSIX regexen < 1268419018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mehhhhh < 1268419021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes? didn't you know? < 1268419035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I did, in which case I forgot < 1268419036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what did you think it was? < 1268419039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, bindings to PCRE? < 1268419049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something more generic < 1268419055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. not bindings < 1268419070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is a bit hard, since you would need to implement that dialect then basically < 1268419077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really hard < 1268419093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, posix regex is available from libc aren't they? < 1268419096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick a sufficiently common-denominator dialect and you can implement it with basically any library + a single preprocessing pass < 1268419105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Only on POSIX, unsurprisingly enough. < 1268419114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I can't say I care about other ones < 1268419123 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know /you/ don't. < 1268419128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do, though. < 1268419138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there are probably free standing implementations of it < 1268419141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "baah", "mehhhhh", etc. < 1268419155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, after all, there is a glibc one, a solaris one and so on < 1268419160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, gnuwin32 appears to have it < 1268419165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I don't like about REXP is that you can only have one (global) regex compiled. < 1268419168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cygwin probably does as well < 1268419178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cygwin is a POSIX environment < 1268419181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or per thread, that is disputed < 1268419183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a single "ignore" regex in fungot (instead of an ignore list) because of that. < 1268419183 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a bit complicated, i learned something from " mathematics made difficult"? afaik no scheme module/ package system stuff, although that's not such a problem) < 1268419198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why a regex at all ;P < 1268419199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just write the regex into Funge-Space. < 1268419209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need to recompile it then < 1268419209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then compile/execute each one individually. < 1268419214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you do. < 1268419238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1268419242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I do a PCRE fingerprint < 1268419248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but that's ugly. Not that I didn't consider it. < 1268419251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will make it possible to do this < 1268419269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably by requiring that it can serialise to a single funge space cell < 1268419271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Seems very Fungy to me :-P < 1268419278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As a consequence of the current implementation, the bot can't say what the current ignore regex is, because I don't store it anywhere. :p < 1268419283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way where not freeing them doesn't cause any memory leakage < 1268419288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you just drop the handle < 1268419292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should act like being GCed < 1268419303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you need a bignum funge basically < 1268419308 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that seems like a bit of a limitation too :-P < 1268419310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and serialises it to that < 1268419345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, the gnuwin32 one is a dynamic library. < 1268419354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have somewhere a compiler (in Java, I think) from a regex dialect into Brainfuck; i.e. it creates the brainfuck code that takes input and then prints out "acc" or "rej" depending on whether it matches the regex. < 1268419413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why is that an issue? < 1268419415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a rather regular sort of regex, though; I don't think it had much more specials than the * and |. < 1268419420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also you could extract the code < 1268419422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and build it < 1268419431 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1268419440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or perhaps just make that fingerprint available on POSIX platforms < 1268419444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd make CCBI depend on something else. < 1268419446 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1268419463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so extract the code and place it in a subdir of the source code < 1268419463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I can try to build it myself but one never knows how well that'll succeed. :-P < 1268419469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then build and link it statically < 1268419472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: glibc? Hell no < 1268419479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1268419481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires so much autoconf and other magic to even get started < 1268419489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, I didn't say glibc < 1268419492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy :-P < 1268419504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suggested that you might only make it available if the libc supports it < 1268419509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an alternative < 1268419518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or you could implement POSIX regexps < 1268419518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, that's the easiest alternative. < 1268419519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1268419527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps, not implement the fingerprint at all < 1268419536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, I wanna be fungot-compatible. < 1268419537 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i'm writing a function to dream about it. < 1268419545 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Don't be snarky. < 1268419545 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: this setence no verb. sorry. :) i don't know one < 1268419552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1268419597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is unlikely to be run on ccbi I think. Since fizzie said he selected cfunge mainly because he could run longer ^bf and ^ul programs on it. < 1268419600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it being faster < 1268419610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, if he completes jitfunge < 1268419613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what he will use < 1268419621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at fizzie < 1268419633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What he runs it on is his concern, not mine. < 1268419664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1268419667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor bot, doesn't know any verbs. < 1268419691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody here have a Windows system immediately available? The .exe at http://people.delphiforums.com/gjc/hs_regex.html isn't behaving. < 1268419697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wrong. It lied. "know" is a verb isn't it? And so is "don't" < 1268419698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1268419704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't is "do" + "not" < 1268419709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former being a verb < 1268419726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, delphi? < 1268419727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1268419735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I should, however, distribute some sort of "fungot-compliant software" stickers for all Funge-98 interps that can run it. < 1268419735 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i move first < 1268419742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chess? < 1268419744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Indeed! < 1268419750 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Looks like C. < 1268419781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, freebsd libc should provide a very nice posix regex implementation < 1268419783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1268419786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that page is old < 1268419788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1997 < 1268419792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like they have those Windows-compatible hardware logo things. Though then I'd need a test framework for fungot. (Which might not be a bad idea anyway.) < 1268419793 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: huh, what about the home fnord for the kerry campaign? :) < 1268419796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still POSIX regex < 1268419796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should extract a newer one from freebsd sources < 1268419800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away a while.) < 1268419808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REXP doesn't specify version requirements, as can be expected :-P < 1268419813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, freebsd sources tend to be easy to extract and use elsewhere in my experience < 1268419835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it should be a few minutes of work to take it from the source tree on your local freebsd machine < 1268419835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's probably what I'll try first. < 1268419853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one or two helper functions < 1268419935 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said which what? < 1268419941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can even pop me one physically and I can take a screenshot of a computer running CCBI with the sticker in the middle of the screen, or something < 1268419994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in the middle of the screen? ouch < 1268420501 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't have to /nail/ it to the screen < 1268420668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, the short speed mention reminded me: any ideas for funge benchmarks? < 1268421214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone said "never trust a computer that you can not throw out of a window" but in my opinion the better advice should be "never trust a computer that you can not thoroughly disassemble" < 1268421363 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.63.42.plusnet.pcl-ag01.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268421367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, good luck disassembling a microprocessor < 1268421368 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1268421424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would certainly be difficult to disassemble a microprocessor < 1268421522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try this game http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/GAMES/100level.zip see if you can figure it out. (Just run the EXE; do not look at the source-codes unless the EXE won't run or something else...) < 1268421548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It deliberately has a lack of good instructions < 1268421565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how much he should be trusting zzo38  < 1268421567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it is meant you just have to try things to see what works < 1268421581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run the program in a virtual machine if you don't trust the program < 1268421607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is a DOS program) < 1268421712 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want to see how many people can possibly figure it out, and even if you can figure it out, you still have to win, of course < 1268421722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot run DOS programs < 1268421838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can recompile it using FreeBASIC, or something like that. Or, just put FreeDOS on a virtual machine, or run it in the DOSBOX emulator, and so on < 1268421849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, Pidgin has screwed me over one too many times at this point < 1268421864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And what kind of screw did it screw you over? < 1268421867 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the program? < 1268421881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Use a real language. < 1268421894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried to bring a window to the front, and it wouldn't come up. But that's relatively minor, it's just the last straw < 1268421917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pidgin-facebook glitches, sometimes I can't edit my status < 1268421927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it in QBASIC but FreeBASIC should be able to compile it too < 1268421946 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it simply because I sometimes do that when writing games on DOS < 1268421961 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoves a C compiler down zzo38's throat < 1268421962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't use this computer to write it, I used a different computer) < 1268421973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this computer I do have a C compiler, I use MinGW. < 1268421987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your DOS machine should have one, too. DJGPP. < 1268422076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it should, but I didn't use that. Maybe later I might re-write it (or a similar game) in C, and it might be on Linux console mode and Windows console mode < 1268422111 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION removes zzo38's knowledge of BASIC < 1268422128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That other computer is actually Windows 98 and it isn't in this house, it is elsewhere, when I am there sometimes I do that on there. I have no internet connection there either, so I had to use a floppy disk < 1268422169 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That other computer doesn't actually belong to me anyways it belongs to the school but they let me borrow it, probably permanently because they probably never want it back < 1268422505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1268424983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is one thing I dislike about Conkeror: C-x C-c does something. < 1268424990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate typo'ing that. < 1268425385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me of the main thing i dislike about simon tatham's puzzle collection < 1268425407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1268425410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing q quits the fucking program, immediately! < 1268425416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1268425460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's apparently designed to be easily hideable in office environments :D but i have no use for that D: < 1268425586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There is one thing I dislike about Conkeror: C-x C-c does something. <-- does it quit? < 1268425608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1268425630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is expected isn't it? < 1268425643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you prefer instead? < 1268425653 0 :Libster!~Libster@pool-173-73-27-43.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268425656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something harder to accidentally type. < 1268425661 0 :Libster!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1268425672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that Emacs-style bindings stick a lot of stuff off of C-x ... < 1268425836 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-7-92.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268425847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a friend complain about C-w closing tabs in Firefox; she was trying to do a copy-paste job on a wiki page in Firefox, and all those Emacs reflexes made her do C-w often. < 1268425910 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "C-" an accepted notation for ? < 1268425951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Emacs way to say it. < 1268425984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is M-x for meta-x, and... is it C-M-x or M-C-x, actually? < 1268426002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-M-x is the general notation. < 1268426020 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'P-x for 'pata-x? < 1268426064 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1268426109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-x (yes, lowercase) and H-x for super and hyper, it seems, though I guess there are no (or not many anyway) standard bindings for those. < 1268427461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~chatzilla@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268427486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Invisible Sucker < 1268427515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1268427532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your nickname < 1268427550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1268427655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the forums ever even used? < 1268427660 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it dealt with the former head of the FBI < 1268427673 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was his name hoover? beats me < 1268427677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: there is a post the occasional month or so < 1268427687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: hm that rings a bell < 1268427694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google hoover < 1268427697 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoover's proprietary company profiles and industry information. \ [15]Log In - [16]Companies A-Z - [17]Companies - [18]Industries < 1268427705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: It's named after the vacuum cleaner. < 1268427710 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1268427719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google j edgar hoover < 1268427720 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Edgar Hoover (January 1, 1895 May 2, 1972) was the first Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) of the United States. ... \ [13]Early life and education - [14]FBI career - [15]Legacy - [16]Personal life < 1268427728 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hakcety hack < 1268427734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1268427735 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1268427738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google hoover vacuum < 1268427740 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vacuum cleaners from Hoover featuring the best new and reconditioned models, including powerful upright vacuums, easy to use canister style vacuums, ... \ www.hoover.com/ - [15]Cached - [16]Similar < 1268427772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1ls < 1268427775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1268427777 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.5645 \ wunderbar_emporium \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz \ wunderbar_emporium-3.tgz.1 < 1268427791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1268427795 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're building a 8088 based computer on a prototype board, with vintage printer and 300baud modem < 1268427816 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like to call our modem and trigger the led-blinking program? :D < 1268427839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watchen das blinkenlights < 1268427843 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google Hoover FBI < 1268427846 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jump to [13]FBI career: Hoover was noted as sometimes being capricious in his leadership; he frequently fired FBI agents, singling out those whom he ... \ [14]Early life and education - [15]FBI career - [16]Legacy - [17]Personal life < 1268427862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: see above < 1268427869 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hahaha < 1268427895 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: say this in language that sounds better < 1268427899 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;] < 1268427906 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: say what? < 1268427914 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:03 < oerjan> watchen das blinkenlights < 1268427997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinkenlights < 1268427997 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1268428022 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh lool < 1268428131 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1268428133 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1268428142 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come that i didnt know that < 1268428200 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.catb.org/~esr/jargon/html/graphics/gefingerpoken.jpg < 1268428214 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lofl < 1268428393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadn't seen that one before < 1268428419 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this is the original < 1268428458 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1268428513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cray CX1 has this funny-looking "modernized blinkenlights" mini-screen on the chassis: http://download.intel.com/pressroom/kits/xeon/5500series/images/Cray_CX1.jpg < 1268428565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it's almost affordable by a regular person, unlike current Real Computers.) < 1268428623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It reminds me of the Monoliths... < 1268428649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocky things always look more imposing, though... < 1268428709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing is pretty small; it's their "desktop supercomputer". < 1268428721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell are the big ones like? < 1268428732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one in a room: http://leahshanker.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/cray.jpg < 1268428739 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BtW, did that esoteric operating system ever get off the ground? < 1268428793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finland's possibly biggest Real Computer, CSC's louhi (Cray XT4/XT5) looks like this: http://www.aamulehti.fi/teema/tiede/5322047-big.jpg < 1268428804 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1268428814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look like reasonably silly refridgerators. < 1268428832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/d// < 1268428859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember that Cray does custom colours for all their Real Computer installations; most of the other ones looked a lot fancier. < 1268428870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course they might've selected only the best-looking ones for the slideset.) < 1268428895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I mean, compare louhi with something like http://blogs.knoxnews.com/munger/jaguartests.jpg < 1268428929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://media.knoxnews.com/media/img/photos/2009/01/23/012409kraken1_t607.jpg < 1268428931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vaguely remember some form of supercomputer at the University of Edinburgh. < 1268428933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the names are more impressive. < 1268428953 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone suggest where I can get a decent feed of programming related links, apart from Digg, Reddit, Delicious and DZone? < 1268428956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the Kraken's tentacles have some anime schoolgirl molestation connotations nowadays. < 1268428962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eew. < 1268428992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: Hacker News? < 1268428995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: esoteric, or normal? < 1268429019 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either < 1268429049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Though the new faculty cluster we have is called Triton, which is a passable name. And I guess Louhi's not so bad if you know your Kalevala.) < 1268429114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Edinburgh supercomputers: http://www.hector.ac.uk/about-us/gallery/images/cabinet1.jpg < 1268429122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They look like all the others. < 1268429128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with a less cool name. < 1268429177 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hector". < 1268429246 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anybody know if the esoteric OS got anywhere? < 1268429328 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1268429336 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1268429343 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seem to have been four attempts. < 1268429352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the forum. < 1268429379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest one actually looks achievable. < 1268429439 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :molestation is my favourite station. < 1268429452 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An appropriate answer, I think. < 1268429456 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, people use the forum? < 1268429461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1268429467 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1268429482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's why all the attempts petered out. < 1268429486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one noticed. < 1268429498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!? < 1268429511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, people use the forum? < 1268429520 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, some software ended up relying on uninitialized variables being filled with garbage < 1268429549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i can see that working in CoreWars < 1268429574 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X apparently initializes such variables to 0, which caused problems < 1268429592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? < 1268429593 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1268429616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.activeworlds.com/showpost.php?p=123792&postcount=10 < 1268429697 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird. < 1268429713 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268429897 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how that works < 1268429907 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you rely on garbage being uniformly distributed or something? < 1268429929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you just rely on something being, say, true by default, then any value other than 0 will work. < 1268430168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you pass the -nostdlib option to gcc can you use syscalls normally inside the program? < 1268430178 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like fork(); < 1268430200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, fork() is not actually a system call, but rather a function that performs the system call. < 1268430207 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aah. < 1268430215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you could write said function yourself. < 1268430226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's what I was doing. < 1268430228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need a small bit of inline assembly and a willingness to say "screw portability". < 1268430277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could always write the assembly in a separate file and use preprocessor directives to make it a little more portable. < 1268430297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is exactly what *libc does :P < 1268430305 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1268430354 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My OS midterm (this class is so boring and tedious it hurts) there was a question putting forth that it is possible for all syscalls to be handled by a single function, but no system in reality does this, and asking why. < 1268430386 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer was that nearly every system in reality does this, to simplify the interface to the kernel, and that the syscalls as visible to the user are just wrappers which raise a software interrupt, ultimately calling the same interrupt function. < 1268430409 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really get interrupts... < 1268430423 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268430428 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then re-enable them. < 1268430434 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ba-dum ching* < 1268430444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that was humourous. < 1268430476 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-7-166.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1268430488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86-64, I doubt you even need that bit of inline assembly; there's a syscall invocation code you could possibly simply call in the VDSO "virtual-library" thing provided by the kernel. < 1268430507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll still need to screw the portability, of course. < 1268430527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm pretty sure that that's done by deep linker magic. < 1268430529 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1268430530 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1268430557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's provided on every platform I know of, in particular x86. < 1268430560 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On Linux, of course) < 1268430584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, yeah, that virtual library is not provided by the kernel, it's provided by the dynamic linker. < 1268430691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's *provided* by the kernel but *loaded* by the dynamic linker. < 1268430732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case you can make use of it without linking against libc. < 1268430735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the address is in the ELF auxilliary vector, passed as the 4th argument to main. < 1268430748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAARGH! < 1268430755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So complicated! < 1268430765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That doesn't answer many questions, main() is called by _start, not the kernel ... < 1268430801 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, it could just be that it's sitting on the top of the stack when _start is called, that would be the logical place for it. < 1268430803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And doesn't _start just pass arguments through to main after initialising things? < 1268430828 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not really, no. _start doesn't get an argc, so it has to make it, and envp isn't a pointer, it's just the environment dumped directly into the stack. < 1268430838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1268430844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that matter, argv isn't a pointer, it's just the args dumped directly into the stack :P < 1268430854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads up further < 1268430895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh, the ELF loader dumps auxv on the stack. < 1268430951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's too complicated, you don't have to use it; if you instead want the simple way of having that bit of inline assembly. I've done both int 80h on x86-32 and the "syscall" instruction on x86-64 manually here and there. Just stick things into proper registers, that's about it. < 1268431014 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://pastebin.ca/1836084 :) < 1268431031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before segfaulting, that code is quite amusing :P < 1268431045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Heheheh. < 1268431153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay, from the looks of things the auxv is after the end of envp. < 1268431177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, look for the NULL at the end of envp and you have auxv. < 1268431187 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1268431197 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main() is for pussies. < 1268431203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh. < 1268431351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and think of the efficiency! If you just start at _start, your code runs a lot earlier! < 1268431375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you make everything static functions, you can optimise THE WHOLE PROGRAM! < 1268431383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static inline < 1268431387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just inline everything into _start < 1268431396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you RET at the beginning, you've got an O(1) approximation to everything. < 1268431402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The "inline" keyword doesn't actually cause any inlining. < 1268431410 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's a suggestion though :P < 1268431419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're at least politely requesting that the compiler please inline. < 1268431419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just tells the compiler to ignore a redundant definition. < 1268431430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for GNU inline. Which does odder things. < 1268431474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(called "GNU inline" because of GCC's behavior of inline before it was an actual keyword. Can now be enabled with __attribute__((gnuinline))) < 1268431500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inline_dammit < 1268431528 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also GCC's "extern inline" < 1268431533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does have that __attribute__ ((always_inline)) you can try to use, though I wouldn't trust it any further than I could throw it. < 1268431560 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1268431622 0 :tombom__!tombom@86.24.18.197 JOIN :#esoteric < 1268431668 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1268431688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It works well because it errors if it fails < 1268431738 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1268431754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not necessarily a good *idea*, but it definitely *works*. < 1268432203 0 :adam_d_!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268432352 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1268432389 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1268432869 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100202165920] < 1268432914 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah c++ references < 1268432925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++ kinda makes me sad for humanity < 1268432936 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use all these horrible features and *like* them < 1268433011 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you prefer < 1268433147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++++ < 1268433152 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pure virtual templates ftw < 1268433202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: not using references < 1268433221 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x = 2; foo(x); // x could be anything < 1268433244 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you just said it was 2? what? < 1268433257 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just horrendous, it's not even the feature itself i object to but the fact that people actually use it and think it's a good idea < 1268433281 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer: that's c++, foo(x) can modify the actual value of x < 1268433311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you need SOME way to overload assignment < 1268433316 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do this in C with foo(&) which is 10000 times better < 1268433323 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(&x) i mean < 1268433340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using a pointer allows null, which may not be desirable < 1268433354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then if I have to pass a pointer by reference I will need to take a pointer to a pointer and AHHH I'M CONFUSED < 1268433363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1268433431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then there's the question of whether foo(&&x) makes sense to the compiler. < 1268433449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1268433519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people think MW is a poor medium for discussion? < 1268433547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works just as well as a standard forum. < 1268433662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it show you what part of the discussion you've read, and what's unread, in some sensible way? < 1268433681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but in my experience that doesn't really come up. < 1268433708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my experience that's pretty crucial; granted, "my experience" is pretty much just Usenet, which is not quite a forum. < 1268433713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly not in such a small place as the esolang wiki. < 1268434015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it does if you use the history diff < 1268434028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe not "sensible", but it's what i do < 1268434046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would work. < 1268434056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be just some sort of philosophical objection about not using the right tool for the right job; though that would seem really out-of-place on the esolang wiki, too. < 1268434065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1268434128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i nearly always use the diff on the main articles anyway, so... < 1268434194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem with the whole esolang community is that it's hell for the impatient. < 1268434260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess this channel is our only realtime forum < 1268434273 0 :nooga!~nooga@sc82.internetdsl.tpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1268434273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the others i just check now and then < 1268434274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes... < 1268434287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from our annual conference, yes. < 1268434289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the whole esolang community is this channel. < 1268434293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(including the "forum", which has rss btw) < 1268434294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This channel also has some problems staying on target. < 1268434298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the wiki. < 1268434301 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.) (.) < 1268434334 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki is most certainly legit. < 1268434337 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lament: And hence if the person you want to talk to isn't on the channel it's infuriating. < 1268434358 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr2.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268434362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if i'm not on the channel i'm most likely not on the internet at all < 1268434644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And if you're not on the internet, you're NOBODY. < 1268434684 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'd like to design an esolang which is basically an imperative machine except where each of the instructions is represented by an (unlabelled, undirected) graph. < 1268434743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good thing to do; there's been far too few graphy things so far. < 1268434743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This would necessitate using graph isomorphism to recognize instructions and execute programs, and since it's not known if GI runs in polynomial time, programs in this language have an ... interesting lower bound. < 1268434784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: have you looked at eodermdrome? < 1268434792 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/GI runs/GI is solvable/ < 1268434795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: briefly < 1268434840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was doing something different with graphs < 1268434876 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah the instructions are subgraph substitutions < 1268434896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does have that subgraph isomorphism problem though < 1268434902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1268434905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.8/20100214235838] < 1268434947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is even NP-complete, except eodermdrome also has that 26-vertex subgraph limit) < 1268435014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if you don't _want_ your language to be that hard to run, you could probably select instruction graphs that were somewhat easier to recognize < 1268435015 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knowing that it is NP-complete makes it somewhat less interesting... the interesting thing about GI is that not much is known about where it stands w.r.t P and NP < 1268435038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1268435491 0 :ttm!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Seeeeeya < 1268435754 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NP-complete does not mean hopeless in all cases: In this case, if subgraphs to recognize are fixed, it seems there is polynomial algo... < 1268435831 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1268435839 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another thing I was trying to come up with (only tangentially related) is a purely functional, yet concise, notation for constructing (again, unlabelled) graphs. What I've got so far is only so-so. < 1268435859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yes < 1268436122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reviewing my game with coppro < 1268436140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An observer mentioned that he could have captured my queen if he saw a certain move, but he didn't < 1268436232 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1268436517 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1268437917 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, a program running as root can escape from plash, right? < 1268438044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plash doesn't run programs as root, but if a program got root within plash, it could escape, although it'd be pretty tricky. < 1268438250 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plash?