00:01:42 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:02:51 fuck yeah, now its looking good :) 00:03:33 10:03:38 hmm, if a problem is NP, its reverse is normally P 00:03:44 you should be _glad_ you're not here right now 00:04:17 oerjan: :) 00:04:22 * augur huggles oerjan 00:04:23 (translation: that is just nonsense) 00:04:45 unless he had something strange in mind by "reverse" 00:04:51 isn't that part of the definition of NP? 00:04:59 have i told you about my algorithm that seems to solve the maximum clique problem in quadratic time? 8D 00:05:02 certainly not 00:06:07 i have a link somewhere in the logs 00:06:09 did you see it? 00:06:55 augur: well since the part of the logs i'm at mentioned it was NP-complete, i assume that's only "seems" 00:07:04 it probbaly does only seem 00:07:25 im running it in Textmate's ruby interpreter, so its slow, right 00:07:31 so i cant so the kinds of tests i'd like to do 00:07:40 but otherwise i should congratulate you on soon becoming a millionaire ;D 00:07:47 we could implement it in C and get some blazing speed out of it then throw some random data at it 00:07:49 MAN I WISH 00:09:22 augur: you should test it on a maximum clique problem that has been reduced from some other NP-complete problem like SAT. 00:10:02 sure but what i need is not a single test case but a bunch of them, so that i can actually plot complexity curves 00:10:07 i don't know (at least on the spot) how the reduction goes though 00:10:17 a single test case is fine, but that just tells me how fast it solves this one problem 00:10:33 augur: well if you have the actual reduction algorithm, you could test reduced SAT cases 00:11:23 right. i guess what i really need is a way to just run through a shitton of graphs. 00:11:38 right now im just testing it on 100 random graphs with n nodes 00:11:46 for n in 2..30 00:11:51 -!- Oranjer has joined. 00:12:01 augur: Ruby? Of course it's slow. The interpreter is literally traversing the AST! 00:12:09 ;) 00:12:35 i know its slow. i need to write this in C, but im too lazy to figure that out right now. i suppose if i could find a graph library it'd be trivial 00:13:02 "the problem of finding the maximum clique is both fixed-parameter intractable and hard to approximate" 00:13:07 and i need to figure out how to use the standard array and hash libraries 00:13:42 Array library? C? *Hah*. 00:13:57 :P 00:14:11 what? :P 00:14:23 you know, something that will automatically manage arrays for me 00:14:34 No such thing. 00:14:37 what 00:14:38 yes there is 00:14:42 You're lucky to have malloc. 00:14:43 augur: are you sure you are actually finding the maximum clique and not a _maximal_ clique? 00:14:48 * pikhq is being intentionally evil. ;) 00:14:51 :| 00:15:18 (i.e. a clique that cannot be enlarged) 00:15:20 But on a more serious note: there are no *standard* array libraries. 00:15:23 oerjan: yes. see, the algorithm technically doesn't find the maximum clique, it finds the largest clique that a given node is in 00:15:29 You've got handy tools like "memcmp" 00:15:33 and "memcpy". 00:15:38 BUT, that problem is actually the maximum clique problem. 00:15:38 mhm 00:15:47 And things that claim to be tools like "strcpy" and "strcmp". 00:16:11 also, ofcourse im finding a maximal clique. the maximum clique IS maximal. 8D 00:16:18 * augur is a semanticist 00:17:03 yeah thats right 00:17:12 i know how to do denotational semantics /for real languages/ 00:17:35 suck it, strachey and scott 00:17:59 general semantics? hah 00:18:03 no. 00:18:07 :| 00:18:11 I know! 00:18:12 general semantics is not semantics. 00:18:18 I know! 00:22:01 10:22:57 generate them at random? by definition, you can test if an answer to an NP-complete problem is correct in P-time 00:22:06 *facepalm* 00:22:30 only if the answer is _yes_ 00:22:45 And only if "answer" means a whole lot more than the answer. 00:22:54 oerjan: forget him 00:22:59 heh 00:22:59 lets translate this algorithm into C 00:23:36 Otherwise, the statement would be equivalent to "you can determine if the answer to an NP-complete problem is YES or NO in P-time". 00:23:57 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:24:32 I once met a guy who was 120% sure that P != NP. 00:24:33 uorygl: mind you what he said, with a liberal interpretation, is true if NP = co-NP. but that is not known. 00:25:16 You know, if he really is 120% sure, he ought to be willing to take a bet where he loses $1 if P != NP and loses $1,000,000 if P = NP. 00:25:31 oerjan: cmon, lets do it. im starting to see some potentially exponential trends so lets get to doing this for real 00:25:57 what do you mean "us", kemosabe? 00:25:58 Calculate the expected value: 1.2 * -1 + -0.2 * -1000000 = 199998.8 00:26:35 oerjan: us, as in if its really polynomial you'll get half the credit. 00:26:46 *kimosabe 00:28:04 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 00:29:08 wait, it's kemosabe, how does google dare to suggest a _wrong_ correction? 00:31:40 magic 00:32:25 Google Dares With Magic 00:32:52 i'd dare your magic 00:32:55 if you know what i mean 00:32:56 ;o ;o ;o 00:39:53 wow wait 00:40:01 are there really no standard C libs for arrays? 00:43:25 It's not part of the standard library, no. 00:43:52 Strictly speaking, C *does not have arrays* that are not global or on the stack. And you cannot pass arrays as arguments. 00:44:00 What you have is a pointer and syntactic sugar. 00:44:46 right, i know. what i mean is some sort of struct or whatever and some functions that will manage it so i can just push and pop as needed 00:44:58 Not in the C library. 00:45:06 ok 00:45:08 im surprised. 00:57:47 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 01:16:12 where the fuck is memcpy located :| 01:17:54 string,h, according to man memcpy 01:18:32 Erm. string.h 01:19:27 i think i might need to just write my own version actually 01:19:50 no probably not 01:19:50 ok 01:31:00 hm. 01:31:08 oh. 01:33:05 weird. 01:35:01 `run echo 'Because there are a LOT of ways to mess up these' | wc 01:35:11 1 11 49 01:36:10 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:36:19 -!- lament has joined. 01:54:03 O_O 01:55:41 Yes? 01:59:40 Quite Definitely Maybe. 02:05:01 -!- comex has changed nick to HiEverybody. 02:05:07 -!- HiEverybody has changed nick to comex. 02:05:55 comex: hi! 02:06:01 :p 02:09:53 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:33:30 -!- jcp has joined. 02:45:54 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:46:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Reboot). 02:47:08 -!- pikhq has joined. 02:51:00 -!- nooga has joined. 02:51:02 hi 02:51:22 i've found something amusing on google maps :D 02:51:23 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:51:28 http://to./38k2 WTF? 02:52:23 -!- oerjan has joined. 02:52:29 well then 02:52:31 0.5mil broad stripe over bajkal O_o 02:54:03 looks like a post-processing artifact to me 02:54:11 indeed 02:54:34 looks awesome 02:55:18 no no, it's the famous barguzin half-bridge 02:55:38 for soviet tanks, perhaps 02:55:39 ;D 02:55:53 if this wasn't 2010 i'd say it was a piece of tape 02:59:54 http://en.allexperts.com/q/Geography-1729/running-Lake-Baikal-1.htm 02:59:58 rotfl rotfl rotfl 03:00:21 they're trying to explain it with another conspiracy theory 03:00:23 :DD:DD: 03:02:50 -!- Oranjer has left (?). 03:21:03 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.). 03:31:56 okay, so in my game, if the player hits the jump button 2 frames before they touch the ground, the game gives them leeway and jumps anyway once they touch down 03:32:04 hope this doesn't screw with their brains 03:33:18 I'm actually pretty happy about the heuristics I've come up with. scrolling, jumping behavior, ... 03:33:21 brainfucking is strictly allowed in this community 03:33:47 screw with their brains, not screw their brains 03:51:18 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:00:10 erg 04:00:25 why am i getting errors when i have circular dependency graphs in C? :| 04:07:28 -!- jcp has joined. 04:13:36 what do you mean by circular dependency graphs 04:14:02 augur: ^ 04:14:13 nevermind 04:14:17 i found a better solution 04:14:47 if you mean #include's, then they cannot be circular afaik, they're textual inclusion 04:15:06 i was using #import, but 04:15:33 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:16:41 ah that's apparently not C, but C++ 04:16:55 XCode. 04:26:50 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 04:31:59 -!- werdan7 has quit (*.net *.split). 04:31:59 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split). 04:32:35 -!- SimonRC has joined. 04:39:45 -!- werdan7 has joined. 04:46:36 "Probably a simple question but what do I put for the login universe for Preston bot and other bots if I am in AWEDU? I have tried !AWEDU! but get the message ' cant resolve universe host'." 04:46:49 Basically, the login universe is a server 04:47:04 So, this person is somewhat clueless, but so what 04:47:14 However, this is the response from staff: 04:47:27 "Could you please tell me what your User name is in AWEDU and which world is yours? I will need this to get the info. 04:47:27 " 04:47:31 ^^lies 05:01:02 -!- jcp has joined. 05:33:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:08:01 -!- tombom has joined. 08:40:57 -!- jcp has quit (Quit: I will do anything (almost) for a new router.). 08:50:07 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 10:28:39 -!- lereah_ has joined. 11:13:48 -!- kar8nga has joined. 11:32:48 -!- MizardX has joined. 11:37:14 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:50:02 -!- MizardX has joined. 12:13:35 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:56:41 -!- kar8nga has joined. 13:04:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 13:18:36 -!- amca has joined. 13:39:24 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:52:39 -!- deschutron has joined. 14:56:56 -!- fax has joined. 14:57:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 15:00:04 -!- MigoMipo has quit. 15:00:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:02:23 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:03:30 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:03:45 -!- lament has joined. 15:07:47 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:10:52 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:23:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:06:02 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:06:28 -!- lament has joined. 16:23:10 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: KABOOM!). 16:23:33 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:25:44 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:30:57 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 16:31:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:31:28 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu. 16:37:24 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:57:26 -!- werdan7 has quit (Ping timeout: 633 seconds). 17:01:34 -!- deschutron has left (?). 17:06:10 -!- werdan7 has joined. 17:19:26 ais523, there? 17:20:07 yes 17:20:12 How deep snow have you personally seen in "real life"? 17:20:30 maybe 5-6 inches in the deepest parts 17:20:48 ais523, heh. Look at http://omploader.org/vM3YyMw then 17:20:50 took that today 17:20:56 image? 17:20:57 and well, it has started melting now 17:20:59 ais523, yes 17:21:00 what else? 17:21:09 and yes, that's pretty thick 17:21:15 ais523, well, not to me :P 17:21:28 The snow was deeper than that here last year. 17:21:29 and not compared to how it was before melting... 17:21:49 Gregor, well as I said it started melting. About a week or two ago 17:22:04 Well, I don't live in the frozen north :P 17:22:49 Gregor, what do you mean? 17:23:24 wth at one picture from my mobile phone. It is just black in the lower part 17:23:32 I mean, quite simply, that I don't live in the frozen north. 17:23:34 lik not all image data was captured or something 17:23:45 AnMaster: Perfectly horizontal line? 17:23:52 Gregor, yes: http://omploader.org/vM3YyNw 17:24:15 Heh, funny, it shows white for me :P 17:24:19 It must truly not have all the image data. 17:24:26 Gregor, well, it shows black in eog 17:24:29 hm 17:24:32 Gregor, perhaps 17:24:33 that's sad 17:24:44 was going to make a panorama including that image 17:26:13 Not now you're not! 17:26:25 [1189626.022063] googleearth-bin[3782]: segfault at 0 ip (null) sp 00000000fff4cb24 error 14 in googleearth-bin[8048000+49000] <-- argh 17:26:57 okay, now it is suddenly no longer reproducible 17:26:57 wth 17:27:27 okay... now it crashes at another point instead 17:27:29 AnMaster: That's it? :P 17:27:39 (the snow) 17:27:45 hmm, I was reading an article on making stupidly small executables earlier today 17:27:53 and now I recognise that 8048000 straight off 17:28:05 pikhq, well, compared to UK! 17:28:17 AnMaster: the canal here froze over over the winter 17:28:29 some people were rather unwisely trying to walk on it, but it could bear their weight 17:28:39 also, someone tried to drive a car down it, and it /couldn't/ bear its weight 17:28:42 it hit the local news 17:28:48 they got quite a way, though 17:30:31 AnMaster: the canal here froze over over the winter <-- is that rare? 17:30:37 yes 17:30:42 never known it to happen before 17:30:53 at least, it's common for it to get a bit of ice on it 17:30:56 ais523, well, here we have regular winter roads on the lake 17:30:59 but not for it to be able to bear weight 17:31:06 for cars, some winters even for trucks 17:31:15 but I think it closed for this season last week or so 17:31:21 (the one close to here that is) 17:31:21 AnMaster: it's so nice talking to scandinavians, they're the only people (apart from possibly russians, some canadians, and eskimos) who don't think the UK is stupidly cold 17:31:36 ais523, we think it is stupidly rainy 17:31:43 ais523, also what about Germans? 17:31:57 hmm, I rather like it here, but maybe I'm just used to it 17:34:35 fizzie, measuring that corridor from the pano yesterday in google earth gives it as roughly 60 meters between the nearest doors visible at either end 17:34:47 fizzie, perhaps 50 17:34:49 also, I'm disappointed at the fact that someone put an URL shortener at http://to./ 17:35:09 to.? 17:35:12 wth is that 17:35:15 a TLD 17:35:18 well yes 17:35:23 but you can't put a site at it 17:35:24 can you? 17:35:27 someone bought the A record for a TLD just so they could put an URL shortener there 17:35:30 of course you can 17:35:37 ais523, is that allowed? 17:35:40 you can add an A record for any domain if you own it 17:35:50 and nothing in the spec says you can't 17:36:04 ais523, well, but is it allowed by policy... 17:36:18 well, /someone/ did it 17:36:30 and allegedly ICANN's planning to sell brand new TLDs to companies 17:36:39 I'm thinking a TLD owner doesn't have very many constraints as to what they can do with it. 17:38:03 fizzie, I took a picture at near the end of a 240 meter corridor at the university (length estimated from google earth) 17:38:07 sadly it was rather blurry 17:38:19 and didn't really show how long it was 17:38:26 there was an MX record for mailto:i@an for a while, IIRC 17:38:27 I wonder how much money Tonga gets from the (ab)use of their .to TLD. 17:38:30 maybe still is 17:38:38 fizzie, sorry, 270 17:38:40 not 240 17:38:51 fizzie, and .nu too 17:38:52 fizzie: I seem to remember that when Tuvalu sold .tv, it was a significant amount of money for every member of its population 17:39:00 a few hundred thousand dollars or so 17:39:03 ais523, what is an? 17:39:05 no wonder they sold it 17:39:22 AnMaster: I'm not sure; who really cares, I doubt the original owner of the TLD has much correlation with its use 17:39:24 ais523, per person!? 17:39:28 ais523, that were given out? 17:39:30 an. currently seems to have just NS (and the SOA) entries. 17:39:33 also what domain did they get after? 17:40:14 .an: Netherlands Antilles, previously known as the Netherlands West Indies or Dutch Antilles/West Indies. 17:40:30 AnMaster: according to Wikipedia Tuvalu has a population of 12373 17:40:32 There were TLDs with MX records though, I think we dig'd for those not long ago. 17:40:56 presumably, with all the money they got from the sale they have no problems buying domains elsewhere if they need them 17:41:24 ais523, what a pity there are 28 persons more than the ideal! 17:41:41 presumably the value changes over time 17:41:58 there is no se. 17:42:01 but there is www.se 17:42:08 some domain registrar 17:42:22 ai. 14400 IN MX 10 mail.offshore.ai. 17:42:25 That was one of them. 17:42:41 ai? 17:42:49 So you could get x@ai as a working email address. 17:43:01 fizzie, xai? is that supposed to mean anything? 17:43:05 Except that there's probably quite a lot of MTAs that would add a site-specific prefix there. 17:43:11 Just "x" as in "arbitrary". 17:43:14 ah 17:43:29 evil.ai would be a nice domain 17:43:49 .ai is for Anguilla, another one of those tiny specs in the Caribbean. 17:43:52 but that yuoswhatever would probably prefer good.ai, unless I misremember what his opinion was 17:44:03 "The total land area of the territory is 91 km2 (35 sq mi), with a population of approximately 13,500 (2006 estimate)." 17:45:00 Heh, www.ai: "Anguilla's consumption-based tax system is hospitable to productive firms that create income, profits and wealth. And Anguilla has strict secrecy laws, fresh air, and fantastic beaches." 17:45:20 What a delightfully coy way of saying "we do tax evasion here". 17:45:39 hehe 17:45:53 An .ai domain is $100 for 2 years, available to anyone. 17:45:57 you could try emailing webmaster@ai and asking if they're offering mail addresses there 17:46:08 um, not webmaster 17:46:11 @ai ?? 17:46:14 not @something.ai ? 17:46:22 what's the address to contact the mail server owner? 17:46:30 fax: you can put DNS records in for a TLD if you own it 17:46:42 * AnMaster watches one now slush filled street in google earth's street view 17:46:44 that is so cool 17:46:49 it is amazing that it is the same place 17:47:01 And, as was just mentioned, ai. is one of the relatively few ones that has one already. 17:47:06 ICANN will truly jump the shark if it ever offers a 0-character TLF 17:47:08 *TLD 17:47:12 which would presumably be http://./ 17:47:24 and a subdomain would be http://domain../ 17:47:28 ais523, is that even possible? 17:47:33 That one I'm not so sure is legal. 17:47:45 (in theory, google.com is google.com. etc but people pretty much always leave off the final dot) 17:48:17 (and the "correct" meaning for http://google.com/ is http://google.com.localhost./) 17:48:36 ais523, no it isn't. It will search in the default search whatever for domains 17:48:52 from my resolv.conf I think that is "domain lan" 17:48:55 not 100% sure though 17:49:06 well, I was trying to simplify a bit 17:49:14 hm no 17:49:16 but the idea is that it uses relative-to-local addressing 17:49:17 there is a search line 17:49:21 according to man page 17:49:21 if you miss off the final . 17:49:58 -!- jcp has joined. 17:51:05 ndots:n 17:51:06 sets a threshold for the number of dots which must appear in a name given to res_query(3) (see resolver(3)) before an initial absolute query will be made. The default for n is 1, 17:51:06 meaning that if there are any dots in a name, the name will be tried first as an absolute name before any search list elements are appended to it. The value for this option is 17:51:06 silently capped to 15. 17:51:12 why is it "silently capped to 15" 17:51:13 -_- 17:51:24 that so makes no sense 17:51:47 ah, ok 17:52:23 so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? 17:53:03 RFC1035 (STD 13) specifies "