00:00:05 <fizzie> The loop seems curiously unrollable to me; and I don't quite see why it bothers to keep the loop counter updated at [rsp] while the body is really that simple.
00:01:15 <fizzie> Especially when it initializes it with a constant 10 at the top.
00:02:09 <Deewiant> http://pastebin.com/U816YgtS is what it comes out with now (minus 30000 movb's)
00:02:17 <Deewiant> Minus 29999 movb's, to be exact.
00:03:11 <Deewiant> No inlining, which is a bit weird.
00:03:33 <fizzie> Maybe the 30k movbs make it too large to consider inlining. Though one use only...
00:03:36 <fizzie> I had rbx-based indexing in some earlier version too.
00:04:44 <fizzie> That variant seems to again do the "store 0 into [rsp], then add 10 to it later and use that as the loop condition".
00:05:09 <fizzie> At least the one I got out initializes [rsp] directly to 10, and then falls through to Block1 directly without a test.
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00:08:45 <fizzie> For the record, these were from llvm version 2.6 (Debian 2.6-8), which might've been guessable.
00:09:48 <Deewiant> Marking llbf as alwaysinline is obviously a win anyways
00:13:38 <fizzie> Deewiant: Hey! I got that puts("Hello World!"); out of it.
00:15:07 <oerjan> <ais523> what's the address to contact the mail server owner?
00:15:32 <fizzie> Deewiant: I changed my existing <> code of "%tmp1 = ptrtoint i8* %oldmem to i64; %tmp2 = add/sub i64 %tmp1, N; %newmem = inttoptr i64 %tmp2 to i8*;" into "%newmem = getelementptr i8* %oldmem, +-N".
00:16:06 <fizzie> llvm-as < hello.ll | opt -O3 -std-compile-opts -std-link-opts -loop-unroll | llvm-dis => http://pastebin.com/AYiVB3pM
00:16:25 <fizzie> It still memsets the tape to 0 for some reason, but after that it's just a sequence of putchar() calls.
00:16:39 <fizzie> (I wasn't really expecting it to combine those into a puts().)
00:17:44 <fizzie> (And the -std-X-opts flags seem to be enough, they might even imply those others; I just tried them out earlier.)
00:18:10 <Deewiant> Was that with the individual 30000 stores?
00:19:27 <Deewiant> fizzie: Trunk manages to remove that memset
00:19:32 <fizzie> With the single zeroinitializer store, I get... uh, something rather strange.
00:19:46 <Deewiant> From that putchar'ing code, I mean
00:20:19 <fizzie> This is with a zeroinitializer store: http://pastebin.com/sAzBM02t
00:20:57 <fizzie> Am I reading it wrong or has it actually removed the loop?
00:21:51 <Deewiant> fizzie: Replacing 30000 with 128 in that one, you again get only putchars.
00:22:29 <fizzie> Strange sort of limit there.
00:22:57 <fizzie> Though I guess the 60k individual stores aren't much better.
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00:23:49 <fizzie> Do you think it'd grok a zeroization loop (like I had earlier) as something that's replaceable by a memset?
00:25:40 <fizzie> Let's see, I still have that loop as a commented-out bit.
00:28:50 <fizzie> Well, not my loop, but maybe my loop looks strange. :p
00:30:04 <fizzie> .LBB1_1: # %ZeroLoop.i
00:30:04 <fizzie> mov BYTE PTR [RSP + RAX], 0
00:30:09 <fizzie> That's what it included in there.
00:30:57 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/helloloop.ll
00:31:01 <fizzie> This time it's a bit smaller, too.
00:33:57 <Deewiant> There's another size thing here; with 20 x i8 it's again all putchar.
00:34:01 <fizzie> That's another funny trick: opt turns my "%b0inmem = getelementptr [30000 x i8]* %tape, i32 0, i32 0 ... %p = getelementptr i8* %b0inmem, i32 %i" into a direct-reference "%p.i = getelementptr [30000 x i8]* %tape.i, i64 0, i64 %indvar.i".
00:34:26 <Deewiant> I did that manually right away to see if it would help :-P
00:36:12 <fizzie> I need some sleeps now, nighty.
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02:06:26 <oerjan> augur: how is your clique algorithm testing going?
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02:24:53 <augur_> oerjan: i tried to write it in C but im completely clueless. i dont know C well enough to do it correctly.
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02:44:05 <augur_> oerjan: interestingly, it seems to be maaaaaaybe exponential in the number of nodes, but linear in the number of edges
02:44:35 <oerjan> that's bad for the thing i had been thinking of
02:45:08 <oerjan> i thought about why maxclique is NP-complete, and how to reduce circuit problems to it
02:45:33 <oerjan> alas the method i found ends up making _most_ vertices have edges between them
02:46:20 <oerjan> er, if it's linear in edges then it must be quadratic in nodes, since no. edges <= no. nodes squared
02:47:52 <augur_> the algo i have sounded pretty simple to me, but alas
02:47:55 <augur_> have you looked at it?
02:48:09 <oerjan> is it the one at http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/node-relative%20maximal%20clique.pdf ?
02:49:09 <oerjan> i think there's a typo there, should't it be "if |s| = m then"
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03:07:24 <augur_> its looking exponential in nodes
03:08:07 <augur_> but i guess maybe not, because edge random variables i think are exponential on nodes
03:08:08 <oerjan> you mean it's linear in edges given a particular node number?
03:11:55 <Gregor> Does anybody know how to make a user account that can be logged in via ssh with no password or key? (That is, anyone can log in as this user)
03:12:08 <Gregor> And don't ask why anyone would want to do something so stupid :P
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03:13:01 <Gregor> I could always just make a user account with an obvious, shared password, but that's not ideal.
03:14:18 <oerjan> i suppose what you want is an account that anyone can use but no one can prevent others from using? (not that i know how to do such a thing)
03:14:55 <coppro> just modify passwd not to change that user's password
03:15:30 <oerjan> you'd probably also want to make any startup files not writable by the user?
03:16:01 <coppro> Gregor: password authentication, give it no password?
03:16:06 <oerjan> including any that might be created later...
03:16:18 <Gregor> coppro: No password != no password prompt
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04:13:20 <oerjan> !haskell let comb n m = product [n, n-1 .. n-m+1] `div` product [1..m] in [comb (2*n+1) n | n <- [1..20]]
04:13:31 <EgoBot> [3,10,35,126,462,1716,6435,24310,92378,352716,1352078,5200300,20058300,77558760,300540195,1166803110,4537567650,17672631900,68923264410,269128937220]
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04:37:52 * oerjan concludes that that pdf page cannot possibly be augur's real algorithm
04:38:21 <oerjan> or alternatively, it cannot possibly be correct
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04:49:32 <oerjan> although it does indeed look like it must either be quadratic, or loop infinitely.
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05:56:55 <oerjan> augur: As far as I understand it, the algorithm in the pdf gives the wrong result for the following graph:
05:58:35 <oerjan> With initial vertex the upper left, the algorithm removes the upper right and lower left vertices, giving a clique of size 2 instead of the correct 3.
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14:45:11 <AnMaster> I love the national library search website in Sweden. You can get accurate references for any books in it. In bibtex format from it. Very useful :)
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16:56:43 <ais523> silliest keyboard shortcut mistake ever?: in Evince, "A" is the shortcut to open a new document
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16:56:56 <ais523> and this works even inside the Find dialog thing
16:57:22 <ais523> so, in order to search for words containing a or A, you have to type it as shift-A (luckily it's case-insensitive, or you'd have to use capslock and shift-A to type a lowercase a)
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17:02:21 <fizzie> That doesn't happen in my Evince.
17:03:31 <fizzie> The only "open" shortcut I can see is C-o; just plain "A" doesn't seem to have any sort of significance.
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17:19:28 <ais523> I'm not entirely sure what happened to the keyboard shortcuts on it
17:19:34 <ais523> open is marked as "a" in my menu
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17:22:36 <fizzie> That's passing strange. I guess it might read them from some gconf-powered nightmare?
17:23:05 <ais523> there's no obvious way to change the shortcuts
17:23:22 * oerjan recalls something about gtk allowing you to change the shortcuts
17:24:01 <fizzie> Xpdf has natively single-character no-modifiers shortcuts (O for Open and so on), but it doesn't accept those when the Find dialog has the focus.
17:24:27 <fizzie> ais523: You're not the only one, though: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8839774
17:24:53 <fizzie> It seems that you have Gnome Editable Shortcuts feature turned on and accidentally changed the shortcut for File→Open. The feature means that while you have a menu open, pressing any keyboard key sets it as the shortcut for the currently selected action (Backspace removes a shortcut).
17:24:53 <fizzie> To fix it: just open the File menu and while the mouse is over the Open action, press Ctrl+O. This should restore the standard shortcut.
17:24:59 <fizzie> Wow, that's wonderfully bizarre.
17:25:14 <fizzie> Make any stray keypresses and you completely mangle up a program's UI.
17:25:27 <ais523> wow, that's... surprising
17:30:03 <oerjan> sounds precisely like the gtk feature i once read about
17:31:22 <fizzie> They never cease to confuse.
17:34:31 <AnMaster> <ais523> so, in order to search for words containing a or A, you have to type it as shift-A (luckily it's case-insensitive, or you'd have to use capslock and shift-A to type a lowercase a) <-- err... wth?
17:34:44 <ais523> AnMaster: fizzie figured out what happened
17:34:55 <ais523> at some point in the past, I had my mouse hovering over file|open while typing a
17:34:59 <ais523> and that permanently changed the shortcut
17:36:27 <AnMaster> ais523, how does one disable that feature btw
17:36:47 <AnMaster> hm doesn't seem to happen for me
17:36:59 <AnMaster> so I guess it won't cause problems
17:37:01 <ais523> yep, I suspect it's non-default and I turned it on by mistake
17:37:11 <AnMaster> ais523, found where to turn it off?
17:37:20 <fizzie> In Ubuntu, you (according to hearsay) configure it in "System→Preferences→Appearance dialog → Interface tab → Editable menu shortcut keys"
17:37:27 <ais523> that sounds about right
17:37:49 <AnMaster> well, just checked, not so much
17:38:10 <AnMaster> it sounded worse when fizzie listed that long path than it really is
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18:19:52 <AnMaster> checking the old palm rest for my thinkpad, there was a small square piece of clear plastic glued onto the place where the crack in the plasic happened
18:20:23 <AnMaster> I wonder why. I don't remember if there was any such on the new palm rest part
18:24:29 <Wareya> what's going on today?
18:27:04 <AnMaster> I'm still wonder about said bit of glued on plastic, it looks like they suspected a crack there or something
18:37:28 <ais523> Wareya: not a lot, I think
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18:46:42 <ais523> haha, in the SCO vs Novell trial, there was (second hand) Google's response to SCO asking them to buy a licence for Linux, which was along the lines of "you sent us a form letter, we asked for more details, you replied with another form letter, asking to arrange a meeting by '(insert date one week from date of letter)'. we assume you meant to put an actual date there..."
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19:39:17 <Gracenotes> okay, I've made a huge change to my bash setup... I've made my prompt blue. :3
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20:16:54 <AnMaster> ais523, that must have been some time ago
20:17:48 <ais523> I love that reply, though
20:17:55 <ais523> and I'm not surprised Google didn't take them seriously
20:23:41 <AnMaster> ais523, but citation for that?
20:24:03 <ais523> it's secondhand info; a reporter that Groklaw sent to cover the SCO vs Novell case
20:24:15 <ais523> once the case is over, there'll likely be transcripts up, then you could get a much better citation
20:24:20 <ais523> including exactly what Google said
20:34:12 <Wareya> discussion about genres of intellectual property?
20:34:19 <Wareya> or am I missing something?
20:34:44 <Wareya> or am I adding random shit into what I think's going on?
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20:39:40 <ais523> Wareya: probably the third
20:39:53 <ais523> I'm busy reading the SCO v Novell news at the moment
20:40:03 <ais523> because a) I think it's an important court case, and b) it's hilarious
20:40:10 <Gregor> ... wait, there's news?
20:40:19 <ais523> Gregor: yes, the court case is going on right now
20:40:36 <ais523> after being decided twice on summary judgement, appealed and vacated
20:40:41 <Gregor> I thought that was long-over X_X
20:40:43 <ais523> so now they're doing it again, but this time with a jury
20:41:07 <ais523> and every day of the case, SCO has done something that ridiculously hurts their own case
20:41:14 <ais523> worse every day than the day before
20:41:25 <Gregor> What's your preferred relevant news source?
20:41:40 <ais523> I use http://groklaw.net which is sending its own reporters to the court
20:41:59 <ais523> it seems to already have decided that SCO have no chance, though, which rather colours its opinions a bit
20:42:02 <ais523> although I suspect it's right
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20:45:18 <AnMaster> <ais523> once the case is over, there'll likely be transcripts up, then you could get a much better citation
20:45:29 <AnMaster> since over a year or something
20:45:30 <ais523> AnMaster: it was appealed
20:45:48 <Gregor> Bankruptcy is not the end :P
20:45:48 <ais523> but the lawyers were paid in advance
20:46:02 <AnMaster> Gregor, I thought it was. But apparently not so
20:46:13 <ais523> to be precise, there's more than one form of bankruptcy
20:46:38 <ais523> SCO is chapter-11 bankrupt, which means that the court oversees all their financial transactions, and if they go back up to positive money again they can continue on as a business
20:46:43 <AnMaster> like "out of money" and "out of money"?
20:47:03 <ais523> chapter 11 is sort-of "temporarily out of money", where you can't afford to pay your debts /now/ but may in the near future
20:47:19 <ais523> people are skeptical as to whether it's appropriate, though
20:47:22 <ais523> Wareya: about that, I think
20:47:39 <ais523> yes, but the deadline's been bumped several times, and even blatantly broken on occasion
20:47:50 <ais523> a while back the judge forcibly changed SCO's management
20:48:03 <ais523> and is currently giving the new management some time to try to sort things out
20:48:34 <ais523> there have been all sorts of reasons for previous bumps
20:48:42 <ais523> SCO nearly always came up with something ridiculous at the last minute
20:48:54 <ais523> like a company wanting to give them lots of money or a loan, etc
20:48:59 <ais523> but the details needed some time to sort out...
20:49:03 <ais523> (and of course, the deals mostly fell through)
20:50:22 <ais523> Gregor: has your head exploded sufficiently yet?
20:51:29 <ais523> are you enjoying the info you're reading, at least?
20:51:51 <ais523> it's full of SCO contradicting itself
20:52:20 <ais523> I'm actually vaguely curious as to whether SCO or Novell will do a better job of demolishing SCO's case
20:55:40 <uorygl> You know, "Santa Cruz Operation" doesn't sound like something legitimate.
20:55:47 <uorygl> Which is a coincidence, of course.
20:56:16 <uorygl> But it sounds like some CIA plot to assassinate a Cuban leader.
20:56:24 <ais523> uorygl: oh, you are confused; the company in question is "The SCO Group", "Santa Cruz Operation" is a /different/ company
20:56:54 <ais523> there's a suspicion going around that they're doing this sort of thing deliberately; two of the companies that tried to give them loans were both startups with the initials SNCP
20:58:54 <uorygl> Hmm. It looks like Caldera acquired parts of Santa Cruz Operation and then renamed themselves after them.
20:59:16 <uorygl> Unless the SCO Group's SCO is a totally different SCO.
20:59:50 <ais523> the other parts of the original SCO are currently owned by Oracle, via Sun
21:00:53 <pikhq> uorygl: Yeah, Caldera bought up SanCruzOp's UNIX business.
21:01:08 <pikhq> And thought they bought the rights to UNIX.
21:02:36 <ais523> and novell claimed they never sold them to oldSCO in the first place
21:02:41 <ais523> that's what the current trial's about
21:02:50 <ais523> both Novell and SCO sued the other for claiming that they owned the copyrights to UNIX
21:04:04 <pikhq> Novell's got the contract on their side.
21:04:51 <ais523> SCO's argument is, I think, that the contract's not meant to say that
21:04:52 <pikhq> Actually, Novell never sued just claiming "we own the copyrights and they're violating it", they just said "Yeah, the contract we've got here says they owe us a percentage of the profits from their UNIX sales. We'd like them to pay."
21:05:29 <ais523> pikhq: that's a different case I think, just to add to the confusion
21:05:38 <ais523> it was originally the same case, but the appeal sort-of split everything up
21:05:41 <pikhq> No, that's the countersuit.
21:05:57 <ais523> it doesn't seem to be being decided at the moment
21:06:02 <ais523> maybe that one wasn't appealed
21:06:07 <ais523> and so isn't included in the redo of the trial
21:06:08 <pikhq> It has already been decided.
21:06:13 <ais523> yep, so has everything else
21:06:19 <pikhq> It's the reason for the bankruptcy.
21:06:22 <ais523> the question is, what needs to be decided a second time?
21:07:06 <pikhq> They filed bankruptcy soley to delay the verdict from the countersuit... Said countersuit was about to be a reason for them to be bankrupt.
21:07:36 <pikhq> Yes, they couldn't legitimately file bankruptcy until after the verdict, but they filed before the verdict to delay the verdict.
21:07:55 <pikhq> SCO has some *amazingly* amoral lawyers.
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21:25:27 <AnMaster> <ais523> tSCOg = caldera <--- ?
21:25:43 <ais523> AnMaster: they keep renaming things to try to confuse people
21:25:57 <AnMaster> ais523, yes but that wasn't sed syntax was it?
21:25:59 <ais523> try to get a straight answer from them as to whether UNIX is UnixWare or not
21:26:04 <ais523> AnMaster: no, it wasn't
21:26:16 <ais523> "The SCO Group" and "Caldera" are the same company
21:26:29 <ais523> and "The SCO Group" abbreviates to "tSCOg" when you want to be unambiguous
21:26:37 <ais523> "dog" does not mean "do global"!
21:32:57 <AnMaster> ais523, well, I didn't know what the t and g stood for
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22:03:01 <ais523> gah, the evince problem doesn't even just happen with the mouse
22:03:11 <ais523> I pressed alt f a, meaning save as, but evince doesn't have save as
22:03:21 <ais523> and it overwrote the keyboard shortcut for open instead
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22:20:22 <uorygl> Since the alise sighting counter is defunct, let's set it to an arbitrary value.
22:20:39 -!- uorygl has set topic: "Gwandocu (n): Extremely strong evidence, far beyond a reasonable doubt." | alise sighting counter: 100,000 | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
22:24:51 <wareya> At least it's over nine thousand.
22:26:00 <AnMaster> I suggest ais disable that editing thingy for menus
22:59:01 <pikhq> Definitely over 九千.
22:59:20 <lament> that looks like a number
23:02:01 <pikhq> Chinese numerals are easy. :)
23:08:27 <uorygl> Nullary doesn't allow you to use any symbols!
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23:08:43 <uorygl> And every symbol you use has a negative-infinite amount of information!
23:09:07 <uorygl> Hmm, maybe you just need to send a negative-zero number of symbols and boom, your information. :P
23:09:21 <uorygl> You don't even need to come up with a code!
23:09:44 <uorygl> Because every symbol already has a meaning even though you've never assigned any meanings to any of them!
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