←2010-04-06 2010-04-07 2010-04-08→ ↑2010 ↑all
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00:09:14 <AnMaster> <olsner> hmm, perhaps 'virrigt', but that doesn't imply the same kind of agitation
00:09:15 <AnMaster> no
00:09:19 <AnMaster> I know what it means
00:09:28 <AnMaster> I just don't know how it applies to a piano
00:09:40 <ais523> hmm, I just started using flymake-mode in Emacs, and it's amazing
00:09:49 <AnMaster> ais523, what is it for?
00:09:59 <ais523> it repeatedly syntax-checks the code you're working on
00:10:06 <Gregor> Do you have something against my personifying things :P
00:10:10 <ais523> and syntax errors get highlighted almost immediately
00:10:18 <ais523> much faster than in any other IDE I've used
00:10:19 <ais523> warnings, too
00:10:37 <ais523> I was expecting it to take several seconds, like NetBeans, etc., does
00:11:41 <oerjan> Gregor: no, but the things don't like it
00:12:31 <Gregor> oerjan: YOU MEAN THE PEOPLE
00:13:10 <oerjan> the vitally challenged people
00:14:07 <Gregor> "vitally challenged" is a pretty awesome phrase :P
00:25:04 <AnMaster> ais523, C only?
00:25:16 <ais523> AnMaster: I was using it for Perl
00:25:20 <ais523> although I'm not sure what langs it works for
00:25:21 <AnMaster> ah
00:25:25 <AnMaster> hm
00:25:29 <ais523> I suspect, most of the popular ones
00:25:43 <AnMaster> INTERCAL? :D
00:25:49 <ais523> no
00:25:56 <AnMaster> sure? tested?
00:25:58 <ais523> besides, it doesn't normally have compile-time syntax errors
00:26:06 <ais523> and sure, read the source to intercal-mode
00:26:08 <AnMaster> ais523, ick does?
00:26:18 <AnMaster> well
00:26:21 <AnMaster> not *syntax*
00:26:23 <AnMaster> I guess
00:26:27 <ais523> AnMaster: it complains on a few things at compile-time, but that's arguably a bug
00:26:28 <AnMaster> well sometimes
00:26:41 <AnMaster> ais523, what about the wrong dimensionality and such?
00:26:58 <ais523> run-time
00:27:02 <AnMaster> hm
00:27:10 <ais523> given that dimensionality can change at runtime, how could you do it otherwise?
00:27:13 <AnMaster> ais523, it also complains if I feed it /dev/random
00:27:28 <ais523> what error?
00:27:32 <AnMaster> ais523, forgot
00:27:41 <ais523> maybe it only works on regular files
00:27:42 <AnMaster> ais523, something about it not looking like intercal iirc?
00:27:49 <ais523> oh, wrong extension
00:27:52 <ais523> /dev/random doesn't end ".i"
00:27:58 <AnMaster> ais523, no
00:27:59 <AnMaster> I did:
00:28:09 <AnMaster> head --bytes 5000 /dev/urandom > foo.i
00:28:11 <AnMaster> or such iirc
00:28:46 <AnMaster> also it complains about missing files
00:29:33 <ais523> yep
00:29:40 <ais523> but flymake, you wouldn't expect to complain about missing files
00:29:47 <ais523> given that it, you know, checks the file you're working on atm
00:29:50 <ais523> which presumably exists
00:29:58 <AnMaster> anyway what about head --bytes 5000 /dev/urandom > foo.i
00:30:01 <AnMaster> it was just garbage
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08:42:34 <AnMaster> pikhq, in #irp: <pikhq> AnMaster: Congrats, you are now uberop. <-- what?
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09:43:34 <fizzie> AnMaster: Just a guess, but probably referring what "/msg chanserv access #irp list" should reveal to you.
09:44:22 <AnMaster> huh why
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10:19:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, other change: yn-rep 1000000 reduced from 8.169 to 5.370 seconds on my computer
10:23:30 <AnMaster> y-rep-n saw a similar, but not quite as large, speed increase. Didn't test it for quite that large values due to "limited" ram
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17:29:25 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Timeouting lines are now visible in the memory-vs-time plots
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17:38:41 <AnMaster> mhm
17:38:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, busy today and tomorrow. I hate deadlines
17:39:34 <Deewiant> I hate gnuplot with gigabytes of memory usage
17:40:39 <Deewiant> Well, not really; I think I mostly hate awk and/or my disk being so slow that it takes half an hour to generate the plots
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18:48:17 <ehirdiphone> get
18:50:12 <Ilari> put
18:50:13 <Ilari> :->
18:50:26 <Deewiant> swap
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18:58:39 <oerjan> 73 roll
19:03:30 <ehirdiphone> I <3 Forth
19:04:31 <ehirdiphone> anyway Deewiant, how would you like another contender for Fungicide, written by someone who doesn't demand to know every detail of every benchmark?
19:06:44 <Deewiant> Sure, why not
19:06:55 <oerjan> YOU CANNOT HAVE IT
19:07:02 <Deewiant> Oh well
19:07:08 <ehirdiphone> Deewiant: Sufficient motivation levels reached; funge time.
19:07:24 <ehirdiphone> Well. On weekends.
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19:07:52 <Deewiant> It should get through Mycology, to start with :-P
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19:08:13 <ehirdiphone> Hey, I can do n-dimensional funge /and/ speed: specialise the code based on a co
19:08:21 <ehirdiphone> mpile time parameter
19:08:33 <Deewiant> That's what CCBI already does :-)
19:08:41 <ehirdiphone> Now I need a language good enough to do that.
19:08:41 <Deewiant> For 1-3 dimensions
19:09:05 <ehirdiphone> Deewiant: dimensions : N+, naturally
19:09:23 <Deewiant> Compile-time specialization for an infinite number of dimensions == infinitely big binary :-)
19:09:44 <ehirdiphone> No. You compile it for a certain dimension.
19:10:00 <ehirdiphone> And it produces dimension-specific code.
19:10:01 <Deewiant> Meh.
19:10:12 <ehirdiphone> Meh yourself.
19:10:28 <Deewiant> Deewiant: Meh.
19:10:41 <oerjan> today is a momentous day.
19:10:49 <oerjan> no iwc update!
19:10:53 <ehirdiphone> Maybe I'll write it in some wonderful Scheme macros that spit out C.
19:10:59 <ehirdiphone> oerjan: WHAT
19:11:07 <oerjan> i know, it's unheard of
19:11:07 <Deewiant> oerjan: Huh? Sure there is
19:11:12 <Deewiant> No. 2628 2010-04-07
19:11:22 <ehirdiphone> lulz
19:11:26 <oerjan> huh.
19:11:30 <Deewiant> Am I in the wrong year or something?
19:11:36 <ehirdiphone> :slowpoke:
19:11:45 <oerjan> oh wait, i'm being an idiot
19:11:56 <ehirdiphone> How unusual.
19:11:59 <oerjan> *facepalm*
19:12:01 <ehirdiphone> >_>
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19:22:04 <Deewiant> ehirdiphone: FWIW I don't mind demands except when they've already been met on the site
19:23:34 <ehirdiphone> The naming, of course, is the most important thing. Ascus, shiro, or hyphae?
19:23:46 <ehirdiphone> Or other, ponders I.
19:24:01 <Deewiant> Shiro?
19:24:26 <ehirdiphone> It's some thing of mycelium.
19:24:47 <Deewiant> Dictionary knew the other two but not that one
19:24:58 <ehirdiphone> WP "Mycelium"
19:25:20 <Deewiant> I see
19:25:35 <Deewiant> How about "fairy circle"
19:26:08 <ehirdiphone> No X-D
19:26:37 <Deewiant> It's shroom-related and distinctive: what could be better?
19:27:19 <ehirdiphone> Shrooms man
19:27:41 <ehirdiphone> How about VEHICLE FOR TRIPPY
19:27:48 <Deewiant> If you want that angle, "Jah"?
19:27:58 <ehirdiphone> I
19:28:11 <oerjan> yeah infinite dimensional funge should definitely use a psychoactive mushroom
19:28:13 <ehirdiphone> don't want that angle.
19:28:30 <ehirdiphone> It's not infinite :P
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19:29:22 <oerjan> afk
19:29:33 <ehirdiphone> brb
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19:47:22 <impomatic> Hi :-)
19:47:38 <pikhq> Yo.
19:48:02 <impomatic> Hi pikhq
19:49:01 <pikhq> Hmm. I wonder how small of a Brainfuck interpreter I could get.
19:49:24 <pikhq> (note: architecture is i386-linux-unknown, with the following programs: shish)
19:50:15 <ehirdiphone> back
19:50:43 <impomatic> http://impomatic.blogspot.com/2009/01/brainf-interpreter-in-redcode.html
19:51:20 <impomatic> There was a contest about 10 years ago to write the smallest Brainfuck interpreter in x86
19:54:53 <ais523> didn't someone fit one entirely into ELF headers?
19:55:10 <pikhq> Compiler, and not quite.
19:55:28 <ais523> still, there's a fun article somewhere about someone trying to write the shortest possible ELF Linux binary, that just did return 42;
19:55:37 <pikhq> Same guy.
19:55:39 <ais523> and they even managed to fit many of the ELF headers into the ELF headers
19:55:43 <Deewiant> http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html http://www.phreedom.org/solar/code/tinype/
19:55:50 <ehirdiphone> Yeah.
19:56:05 <ehirdiphone> ais523: Also the guy who wrote the cgi interval game
19:56:13 <ais523> yep
19:56:18 <ais523> and Google's INTERCAL style guide
19:56:24 <ais523> which implies, indirectly, that he works for Google atm
19:57:18 <pikhq> Aaaaw. The Brainfuck compiler segfaults for LostKng.b
20:02:31 <ehirdiphone> *INTERCAL
20:02:41 <ehirdiphone> I'll have to go very soon.
20:04:55 <ehirdiphone> :)
20:05:06 <ehirdiphone> Bye!
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20:05:16 <pikhq> Gxis
20:09:23 -!- ehirdiphone has joined.
20:09:27 <ehirdiphone> Okay, I have a few more minutes.
20:09:58 <ehirdiphone> Didud d duck cic. C
20:10:48 <ehirdiphone> bye
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21:01:28 <Gregor> Why'd you rename shsh -> shish? Or did I misread the first time?
21:02:43 <pikhq> Gregor: Thought that was the name.
21:02:55 <pikhq> I've been reducing the binary size of shish even further.
21:03:04 <pikhq> Would you like the source to it ATM?
21:03:16 <Gregor> Not even a little bit.
21:03:19 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/HcSN
21:03:24 <pikhq> MUAHAHAH.
21:03:35 <pikhq> Notable features include not depending on libc.
21:03:50 <Gregor> I hope those small* features get inlined.
21:03:55 <Gregor> Grrf
21:04:02 <Gregor> Your f-word overwrote my f-word mid-sentence.
21:04:03 <pikhq> They do.
21:04:58 <Gregor> http://codu.org/aforteforpiano/19e.ogg I can (nearly) play the first page of Nocturne 3 :)
21:05:28 <pikhq> I could probably minimise things further by going into assembly, but, well. The shell is already sitting at 1107 bytes.
21:06:33 <Gregor> The fact that you have an int main suggests strongly that your assertion that it doesn't depend on libc is false.
21:07:02 <Gregor> The glibc-provided entry function does garbage you don't want or need.
21:07:12 <pikhq> dietlibc, actually. But yeah.
21:07:21 <pikhq> I'm going to go copy in a _start and _exit.
21:08:05 <Gregor> Why?
21:08:09 <Gregor> Just replace _start entirely.
21:08:11 <pikhq> Actually. Bah. I'm just going to rename main _start and add _exit.
21:08:16 <Gregor> Exactly :P
21:08:36 <pikhq> Gregor: Copy it in from my "small-libc" directory. Which is where all those *other* functions come from. :P
21:08:52 <Gregor> Ah :P
21:11:07 <pikhq> 560 bytes.
21:11:21 <Gregor> You can replace ELF with a.out, can't you?
21:11:24 <pikhq> -nostdlib is such an awesome library.
21:12:10 <Deewiant> pikhq: If it's that small, I'd go ahead and take the -Os and hand-optimize it
21:12:13 <pikhq> Erm. Option.
21:12:44 <pikhq> Gregor: Yes, but I'd need to build a new compiler for that.
21:12:58 <pikhq> Or just manually munge the assembly into a.out.
21:13:05 <pikhq> Speaking of, does nasm still support a.out?
21:13:07 <Gregor> pikhq: Alternatively, you could use objcopy like somebody who isn't a moron.
21:13:20 <pikhq> I didn't know about objcopy.
21:13:34 <Gregor> And I didn't no how to phrase that not as an insult ^^
21:13:39 <pikhq> That's sweetness.
21:15:36 <pikhq> Hrm. Well, it's 32 bytes, but I get an exec format error.
21:15:41 <oklopol> so you *did* how to phrase it as such
21:16:01 <Gregor> pikhq: Most linuxes don't support a.out
21:16:06 <pikhq> Let me go attempt to compile in a.out support.
21:16:12 <Gregor> Yup
21:16:14 <pikhq> Gregor: Yeah, Imma build the module.
21:16:23 <Gregor> And remove ELF support too, who needs it :P
21:16:51 <pikhq> Gregor: No, I mean build the module for my *own* system. So I can test it without building a new kernel. ;)
21:17:00 <Gregor> Oh :P
21:17:30 <pikhq> Let's see if this 32-byte program is, in fact, a full shell.
21:17:36 <pikhq> Well. "Full".
21:18:42 <pikhq> zsh: exec format error: ./shish.1.1
21:18:45 <pikhq> Aaaaw.
21:19:20 <Gregor> Lesse your objcopy line
21:19:40 <pikhq> objcopy --output-target=a.out-i386-linux shish shish.1
21:19:50 <Gregor> Simple enough *shrugs*
21:19:56 <Gregor> So what's shish.1.1 then?
21:20:21 <pikhq> Erm. Different file.
21:20:58 <pikhq> Seems I have to use sstrip to get out the comment section from the ELF file so objcopy will actually... Copy.
21:21:08 <pikhq> And I still get an exec format error.
21:21:57 <Deewiant> objdump
21:22:00 <Gregor> file doesn't give wonky results? Maybe your a.out support is borkleborked :P
21:22:04 <pikhq> Okay, then. objdump hates the a.out file.
21:22:15 <pikhq> Contents of section .text:
21:22:15 <pikhq> objdump: out of memory allocating 18446744073709551584 bytes after a total of 0 bytes
21:22:21 <Deewiant> :-D
21:22:35 <pikhq> And the ELF file, it refuses to disassemble.
21:22:44 <Deewiant> Looks like the size of your .text section is -32 or something
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21:23:08 <pikhq> Without sstrip, it handles the ELF file correctly.
21:23:18 <pikhq> I'm going to guess sstrip does weird stuff.
21:23:27 <Deewiant> It does.
21:23:51 <pikhq> Well, good to know.
21:25:21 <Gregor> Yuh, maybe just strip ... objcopy can also strip out sections if you use enough objcopy-foo.
21:25:36 <pikhq> objcopy --output-target=a.out-i386-linux -S -R .comment shish shish.1
21:25:47 <Gregor> file shish.1
21:25:49 <pikhq> That produces a file that makes objdump report a file of 0s.
21:25:59 <pikhq> shish.1: Linux/i386 demand-paged executable (ZMAGIC), stripped
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21:27:48 <Gregor> Well, Idonno :P
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21:35:12 <AnMaster> wth
21:35:23 <AnMaster> does openoffice actually not support svg???
21:36:01 <AnMaster> nor pdf...
21:36:07 <AnMaster> I guess I'll have to do with EPS. Lol
21:37:31 <Gregor> I wonder if you could make Linux support a DOS-COM-like format :P
21:37:44 <AnMaster> hm there is svg on my laptop in openoffice
21:37:45 <AnMaster> weird
21:38:18 <pikhq> That's nearly a.out.
21:39:53 <Gregor> pikhq: Minus the header ^^
21:40:30 <AnMaster> Gregor, sure. If you a) patch kernel b) write a custom user space loader
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21:41:04 <AnMaster> or c) use some header + user space loader + the binfmt that allows selecting interpreter from header magic
21:44:37 <pikhq> BTW, it is possible to compile Linux without an executable format.
21:46:57 <Gregor> How useful.
21:56:29 <pikhq> Hmm. Near as I can tell, the Linux support for a.out is a lie.
21:57:11 <pikhq> Given that I've generated an a.out file as close to the "proper" way as I can.
21:57:44 <pikhq> I generated a .o file, then stripped the .comment section, then had ld link and output an a.out file.
21:57:48 <AnMaster> argh
21:58:01 <AnMaster> why does openoffice drop text when importing svg
21:58:09 <AnMaster> and eps it ended up using the preview at all time
21:58:45 <pikhq> Ah well. a.out format appears to have overhead for this program, compared with ELF.
21:59:20 <pikhq> This program statically allocates a lot of stuff. a.out does the static allocation via a series of 0s in the file.
21:59:31 <pikhq> ELF notes the size that's been statically allocated.
22:00:39 <Gregor> ... why do you have any BSS at all?
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22:01:23 <AnMaster> http://qa.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=49991 <-- aaaaaargh
22:01:43 <pikhq> Gregor: Because.
22:02:21 <pikhq> Though, I could just stick that on the stack and see what size I get.
22:03:40 <pikhq> 496 bytes.
22:03:55 <pikhq> Hooray.
22:04:52 <Gregor> STILL TOO BIG
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22:14:19 <pikhq> This is smaller than many of the tiny ELF utilities.
22:14:26 <pikhq> And in C.
22:14:52 <pikhq> Not exactly normal C, though.
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22:27:50 <Gregor> It's in C ... for a ridiculous definition of C :P
22:29:07 <pikhq> Hah.
22:29:33 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/MEcJ
22:29:59 <pikhq> I'm not thinking of better ways to shrink that, short of removing the environment handling.
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22:31:10 <ais523_> hmm, I can reboot my computer and reinstall my wireless drivers in the time it takes me to pingout from Freenode? impressive
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22:31:21 <ais523> well, rebuild and reinstall
22:31:38 <ais523> I compile my wireless drivers from source as there isn't a binary package for them yet
22:32:04 <Deewiant> pikhq: if (*(unsigned*)tokened[0] == 'set\0')
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22:43:47 <pikhq> Deewiant: ?
22:44:23 <Deewiant> Smaller check for set than four separate tests
22:44:36 <pikhq> Mmm.
22:45:05 <Deewiant> And similarly for cd, although you'll need a shift
22:45:22 <pikhq> I... Don't think that works, though. The 'set\0' literal there, that is.
22:45:28 <pikhq> I'll futz with it in a bit.
22:45:41 <Deewiant> GCC supports it IIRC.
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22:46:07 <pikhq> Mmkay.
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22:46:27 <Deewiant> You can always write it out as an integer if you're worried :-P
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22:52:14 <pikhq> Doesn't seem to work right.
22:52:46 <Gregor> You're gonna run into endianness issues.
22:52:50 <Deewiant> Oh, endianness... yeah
22:52:57 <Deewiant> 'set\0' isn't right.
22:53:03 <pikhq> Yeah, that'd do it.
22:53:37 <Deewiant> Since you're assuming x86 anyway it's '\0tes', neh?
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22:54:17 <pikhq> That said, making the if statements a *single* expression gets it down to 488 bytes.
22:54:33 <Deewiant> You compiling with optimization?
22:54:40 <Deewiant> Also, & is presumably smaller than &&
22:54:41 <pikhq> Yes.
22:54:53 <Deewiant> Remember to compare -Os and -O3 too
22:55:15 <pikhq> I have been. -O3 is the second-smallest optimization ATM.
22:55:45 <pikhq> "&" is *larger* than &&.
22:55:47 <Deewiant> And if you just care about the binary size, I reiterate that I'd be working on the asm level :-P
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22:56:15 <pikhq> But I don't wanna!
22:56:20 <pikhq> :P
22:56:22 <Deewiant> Meh
22:56:28 <Deewiant> I'll go sleep then ->
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23:10:44 <pikhq> Okay, 463 bytes.
23:11:17 <pikhq> http://sprunge.us/XUcK
23:12:02 <pikhq> ... Unsigned short? WTF?
23:12:39 <pikhq> Okay, it's shorter that way.
23:12:52 <pikhq> I guess accidents made my code shorter. *shrug*
23:13:42 <pikhq> Ah. But that's incorrect. Doesn't check the null.
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23:54:23 * Sgeo is writing Haskell in his [C++] Data Structures class
23:54:30 <Sgeo> Because I'd rather not be doing this
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23:56:05 <coppro> I write code in class that isn't related all the time
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23:59:37 <Sgeo> This code is related, just in the wrong language
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