< 1271117186 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any reasons not to use Scala? < 1271117315 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have jvm them yes < 1271117649 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I knew stinkhorn was slow at the `y' instruction, but... wow < 1271117684 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17500 times as slow as ccbi2 < 1271117733 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never really considered the allocation strategy on the stack stack since I just used STL containers. < 1271117749 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, I tried a pool allocator, but I didn't try allocating in bigger chunks) < 1271117949 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is starting to like Scala
< 1271117978 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can trim the funge space memory usage significantly, too - allocating a whole fungespace page for writing only a few cells is wasteful < 1271118064 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1271118083 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1271119603 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1271120109 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1271121331 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271122330 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1271123021 0 :manager!sipher@core.elitter.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271123026 0 :manager!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.penisland.us < 1271123036 0 :manager!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1271123075 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1271123748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That site is both not Pen Island, and surprisingly penis-free. (Although not at all porn-free) < 1271125312 0 :bsmntbombdood__!~gavin@97-118-224-46.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271125342 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1271126724 0 :bsmntbombdood__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1271128018 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1271128044 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271128151 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-224-46.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271128716 0 :nooga!~nooga@c140-237.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271128882 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271129820 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271129832 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a really easy trick I could use to remember things really well. < 1271129840 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I think of one, I'll let you guys know. :P < 1271129946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Power Grid < 1271129978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Decent board game. < 1271129987 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a song by Jerry Martin? < 1271129994 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, alas, it's a board game. < 1271129999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a board game. < 1271130026 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A player bought a plant for 121 Electro.. then lost to a player who had /exactly/ enough money to end the game < 1271130203 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Doesn't matter that ANGEL is supposed to store my work. Save anyway. < 1271130226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hahah. < 1271130268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the funny thing was he would have won if he had just stopped bidding and bought a different power plant for cheaper, paid a little more for resources (it was the fusion plant) and bought himself a winning city < 1271130373 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is.. self-slappingly annoying < 1271130397 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: hmm? < 1271130434 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did some homework a while back, put it on the school site through which my professor receives homework < 1271130454 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Professor did not receive homework. I don't know if I saved, but if I did, I don't see any evidence of such < 1271130462 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1271130480 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should really start a git repo for my homework < 1271130803 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do it on paper! < 1271130820 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must admit I sort of like being a Luddite. < 1271130934 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd lose the paper < 1271130943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1271130947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in Sgeo_'s boat < 1271130965 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't lose the paper, I'd leave it in an easy-to-remember but inaccessible place. :P < 1271130995 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you see me taking notes in class, it's either because I'm taking them for someone else [probably a female], or because I hope that the physical action of writing helps memory somehow < 1271131049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you see me taking notes in class, they are incomprehensible to anyone but me. < 1271131088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gotten worse with the addition of kanji to my idiosyncratic script... < 1271131105 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, study the etymologies of Chinese characters. < 1271131116 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if his professors would allow him to take notes on his phone..
< 1271131134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I have a bit. < 1271131135 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, you'll have tons of little fragments of writable stuff. < 1271131140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly interesting. < 1271131146 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: only if your phone is an iPad. :P < 1271131147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, I know 2,000 kanji. < 1271131156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have tons of fragments of writable stuff. < 1271131156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1271131158 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. When did you start learning those things? < 1271131168 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kanji. < 1271131169 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, I'm perfectly willing to use the keyboard of a Nexus One < 1271131186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start? Few years ago. Go hardcore and actually learn them well? 2.5 months ago. < 1271131193 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1271131221 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby decree that I did precisely the same thing with Lojban's gismu. < 1271131233 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did something similar with Haskell < 1271131234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helpful, no? < 1271131254 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although my hardcore Haskell phase seems to be ending < 1271131276 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I mentioned wondering if there was a really easy trick I could use to remember things really well. Here's a hinty thing: "Unless your emotions are somehow involved with your brain in any subject you are looking at, you will learn nothing about it." --David Seabury < 1271131290 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to be confused with David Sedaris, who is some guy I'm actually familiar with. < 1271131320 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1271131374 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the most suitable emotion is terror < 1271131436 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ohmygodohmygod. This word means 'run'. What if someone yells 'ko bajra' at me because a bomb's about to go off and I don't understand and it explodes and I DIE?" < 1271131854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1271131923 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/article/793455--for-those-who-cannot-see-erotica-in-3-d <3 Canada < 1271131947 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would ask for help finding his homework, but somehow, I don't think anyone other than myself can help
< 1271132387 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to switch to Linux so I can grep < 1271132631 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271132711 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1271132913 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1271134195 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blabs < 1271135212 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This soundtrack contains a song called "The Kill Ring". < 1271135223 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, that's an Emacs reference. < 1271135446 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271135707 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1271136204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if there's a really easy trick I could use to remember things really well. < 1271136212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew one once, but i forgot it. < 1271136482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1271136494 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golf < 1271136499 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's augur ? < 1271136535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a linguist < 1271136551 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's who anyway? :D < 1271136562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "Whp < 1271136569 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My name is Adrian. < 1271136571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no type can. < 1271136583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "who's who on #esoteric" book would probably sell well. < 1271136589 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1271136595 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so true < 1271136617 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's his connection to me? I apparently know him, but I'm not sure how, in his IRC incarnation. < 1271136676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how should i know, i've never seen _you_ before yesterday... when you were "idle for 41 days". how did you _manage_ that? < 1271136715 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing _underlined_ text in a terminal is so _cool_ < 1271136722 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm often busy. < 1271136748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also are you from norway? i knew a Lamo at university. < 1271136772 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm in a troll mood < 1271136788 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do norwegians actually believe in trolls? < 1271136789 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunes.org/~nef//logs/esoteric/09.08.19 < 1271136798 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what brought me here. < 1271136801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: i'm sure there are _some_ < 1271136871 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near Bodo < 1271136928 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. This isn't helping. < 1271136931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got that Trolltech thing, at least. < 1271136955 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log linked above implies that I know augur elsewhere via another name. < 1271136974 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to connect the two nodes. < 1271137005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adrian^L: well "come to defcon" was mentioned < 1271137020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adrian^L: he used to go as psygnisfive btw < 1271137041 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That answers everything. < 1271137048 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, oerjan :) < 1271137058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome :) < 1271137083 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disorganized ex-crime owes you a favor ;> < 1271137091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1271137113 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why whoops? < 1271137126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds scary :D < 1271137144 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ought not. < 1271137185 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why have this channel here, as opposed to, say, 2600Net? < 1271137220 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wny not freenode? < 1271137224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask the founder, who disappeared years ago < 1271137308 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mumble. < 1271137641 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freenode is awesome, if you've want to talk about softwarem say XYZ, you go to a channel #XYZ on freenode and someone is there < 1271137666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost always < 1271137682 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've unfortunately not ever found a channel for discussion of gaming < 1271137703 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./j #sex < 1271137727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software exchange < 1271137844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just try it ;d < 1271138993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adrian^L: So, you have a Wikipedia article. Niceness. < 1271139022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crappy reasons to get it, but hey. :P < 1271139253 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271139286 0 :Alex3012!~chatzilla@ool-18b989d3.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271139747 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271139777 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think CCBI --befunge93 has a bug with regards to ';' (semicolon) < 1271139881 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, but fbbi -93 seems to also do the same ... shouldn't they only skip "; ... ;" when in 98 mode?? < 1271139902 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(CCBI doesn't skip but reflects back, which can't be right in 93 mode) < 1271140080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't reflecting back be right? IIRC the Befunge-93 spec doesn't specify at all what should be done if trying to execute an undefined opcode, and ; is not defined there. < 1271140109 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well none of the other 93 interpreters I'm trying seem to reflect, so ... < 1271140143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's still not exactly forbidden. < 1271140158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly many 93 interps treat non-defined ops as nops. < 1271140189 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the original (although it whines without -q) < 1271140443 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140444 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140445 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140445 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140445 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140445 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140446 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140446 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140446 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140447 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140447 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140448 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140448 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140449 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140449 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140555 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :oklofok!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-52-8.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-28-99.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :cal153!~cal@c-69-181-46-213.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :ineiros!~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :mtve!~mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :lifthrasiir!M58WNbag@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140555 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140571 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1271140611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140611 0 :Adrian^L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140611 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140612 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140612 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140613 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140613 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140613 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140613 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1271140647 0 :nooga!~nooga@c140-237.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-224-46.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :atrapado!~roper@46.188.116.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :pineapple!~pineapple@cpc3-aztw11-0-0-cust24.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :Adrian^L!adrian@phalse.2600.COM JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140647 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271140673 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Max SendQ exceeded < 1271140694 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1271141094 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo < 1271141125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1271142052 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1271145599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1271145600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1271145834 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lament < 1271145973 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271146002 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Esolang wiki on Befunge really needs revising < 1271146020 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least somebody added an interesting link lately: "Marsh" ( http://github.com/serprex/Befunge ) < 1271146049 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my P4, it's pretty fast (GCC-compiled), not so much my other cpus < 1271146184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had some talk about Marsh here. < 1271146200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also somewhat broken; the default version doesn't even do "pop 0 from empty stack". < 1271146210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some issues with the marsh_safe version too. < 1271146222 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99, assumes "/dev/random" exists, fixit.py kludge (which I'm not entirely sure about) < 1271146247 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's obviously not perfect, but it beats the x86 BEFI.COM on this P4 with my lame benchmark.bef < 1271146278 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly more to do with the P4's quirks than anything, other machines are much slower < 1271146322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, re. speed: http://pastebin.com/nfmUUEwq < 1271146340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have an actual benchmark.bef for Befunge-93, I'd like to have it. < 1271146344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Befunge interpreter appears to use the same implementation technique, but with different bugs. :P < 1271146357 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "ff" is yours? < 1271146363 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written in what? < 1271146374 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Written in C. < 1271146390 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're gonna laugh (or get mad), but here's my "benchmark" (lame, I know): < 1271146391 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91+:*-:0`#@ #._ < 1271146400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also mostly bug-free: http://pastebin.com/BmmymUz7 < 1271146426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What's the testfile.txt in question? < 1271146452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Complete Stories, Volume 1, Isaac Asimov. < 1271146460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just wanted some mostly-ascii text.) < 1271146463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1271146480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit un-redistributable that way; perhaps I should've just generated something. < 1271146518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go fetch something off of Gutenberg then. < 1271146534 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for a horrible laugh, read this: http://pastebin.com/QekgWsxT < 1271146614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :156 ./a.out bench.bf 0.00s user 0.00s system 50% cpu 0.006 total < 1271146629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1271146692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Mine might behave a bit less optimally in that benchmark, because ff's playfield is actually 256x256; I do wrapping by unsigned-char overflow. So there's more spaces to go through. < 1271146718 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEFI is actually 128*128, and it didn't hurt much there (obviously) < 1271146727 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the point is that GCC is better at P4 than others < 1271146739 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1271146741 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, 26 secs. for marshsafe on the same benchmark) < 1271146800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't compare with cfunge, because cfunge doesn't handle EOF right for B93. < 1271146827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(reflect on EOF is but one valid behavior, and this ROT13 program assumes -1 = EOF instead) < 1271146846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, need a better benchmark. :/ < 1271146853 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27.410 secs. < 1271146862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waiting for marshsafe to finish here. < 1271146866 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(marsh.c but without fixit.py crud) < 1271146887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked at what fixit.py does. < 1271146913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does your benchmark work properly with non-safe marsh? It seems to pop once from empty stack for the first -, but maybe it doesn't hurt there. < 1271146914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, what should the output from this actually be? < 1271146938 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who me? I think so, yeah < 1271146960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to guess "definitely not 156". < 1271146972 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1271146977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I've found a small testcase that fails. < 1271146981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my system, it outputs 2147483596 at the end; I guess it does -100 until the cell wraps around. < 1271146993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, the only other thing that failed was Hunt the Wumpus. < 1271146994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :156 sounds a bit like byte-sized stack cell. < 1271146994 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1271146996 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's correct < 1271147005 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2147483596 is correct < 1271147016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since -100 % 256 would be 156 for some values of %. < 1271147045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. Yeah, it's still on char cells. < 1271147047 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27.680 (marshsafe.c) < 1271147048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme change that. < 1271147053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange, marshsafe doesn't seem to want to finish. < 1271147073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It now outputs -100 immediately. < 1271147087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. *unsigned* int might help. XD < 1271147101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want signed stack cells, in fact. < 1271147101 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or not. < 1271147109 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it'll output 2^32-100 immediately. < 1271147126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something else wrong there; it should stay in the loop as long as the value is <0, terminating when it wraps. < 1271147172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Any ideas why marshsafe.c still hasn't finished for me? It's been some five minutes or so already. :p < 1271147193 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you compile it? < 1271147217 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -o marshsafe marshsafe.c -std=gnu99 -O3 < 1271147224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma sleep. I'll futz with this in the morning. < 1271147242 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what I did: < 1271147243 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -std=gnu99 -DFUNGE marshsafe.c -o funge.exe -O2 -mtune=native -fmerge-all-constants -fomit-frame-pointer -fno-gcse < 1271147249 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slightly modified from makefile) < 1271147258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that damned -DFUNGE. < 1271147266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most sensible thing ever. < 1271147295 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what cpu? (Core2, perhaps?) < 1271147316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an old-ish Athlon X2. < 1271147332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, "5600+" or some other such silly model name. < 1271147351 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be that old if it's X2 < 1271147364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why the "-ish". < 1271147381 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why he has #ifdef FUNGE ... what other use is marshsafe.c ????? < 1271147465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, it still doesn't seem to be doing much; ^c'd it after three minutes. < 1271147475 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try without -O3 < 1271147476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lunch now, will get back to benchmarking after. < 1271147511 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say CCBI reflecting on ';' in B93 is wrong :-P < 1271147849 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 mins. for CCBI (in B98 mode) < 1271148261 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I think "bef2c -p -o" + GCC ran second fastest on my old P166 < 1271148355 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5 mins. for "ccbi --befunge93" :-/ < 1271148362 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1271148451 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I've been running an old version of Marsh, apparently it was updated "1 day ago" !! < 1271148457 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-167-40-196.range86-167.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271148481 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(runs Hunt the Wumpus now???) < 1271148647 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fixit.py is changed, no longer assumes "%rax" is available < 1271148808 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27.350 secs (marsh), 27.630 secs (marshsafe) ... so not much difference < 1271149029 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, "README" (but in French, go figure) < 1271149211 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, "Bejit" ... perhaps he means JIT for Befunge?? < 1271149214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is around two days old, so I guess it might not be the newest either. < 1271149234 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April 11th, that's what it says on the Github site < 1271149243 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1271149294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, even with your command line "time ./marshsafe benchmark.bef" -- where benchmark.bef has 91+:*-:0`#@ #._ only -- doesn't seem to finish in any sensible time. < 1271149316 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you remember -DFUNGE ? < 1271149327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I copy-pasted what you had. < 1271149340 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm, odd ... what GCC? < 1271149340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also eating 100% of CPU. < 1271149351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc (Ubuntu 4.4.3-4ubuntu5) 4.4.3 < 1271149356 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% of an X2??? that can't be right < 1271149376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it goes up to 200%. < 1271149379 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try with -O0 and see if it finishes there < 1271149399 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it definitely should be done in under a minute on a modern cpu < 1271149412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Uh, I think it's actually because the stack cell type is "long", and long on x86-64 is a bit longer. < 1271149450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try with -m32 as a quick fix. < 1271149479 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1271149500 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's an implementation bug anyways, B93 always has 32-bit stack, right? ;-) < 1271149519 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1271149710 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungus and mooz links on Esolangs wiki are broken < 1271149730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, mooz's site has been gone for a long long time now. < 1271149749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's something wrong with my current, cleaned-up version of ff; for the rot13 benchmark, http://pastebin.com/30vpMbwN < 1271149792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mooz the same as this guy? http://frox25.no-ip.org/~mtve/code/eso/bef/ < 1271149809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's a different person. < 1271149834 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it was the "mtv3" part that confused me < 1271149908 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why ff3 is slower, could be anything < 1271149947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTV3 is a Finnish television channel; they had a free webspace thing going on way back when, mooz had his site there. < 1271149968 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mtve = MTV Europe (dunno why he chose that nickname) < 1271149977 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, he's here now (he's always here but "not") < 1271151649 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1271152618 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1271153568 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1271155580 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo < 1271155726 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1271156122 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1271156632 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-224-46.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271157149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, Rugxulo already went? Anyhow, here's a ff3-vs.-marshsafe benchmark: http://pastebin.com/SgBzjEc6 < 1271157233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slightly different output from the two there. < 1271157240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The blank line) < 1271157296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does jitfunge manage on that one? Seems so simple that it might be able to handle it :-) < 1271157423 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, it prints out 0. :p < 1271157436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1271157605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generates a single trace for most of that, containing < 1271157607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry: 1 < 1271157608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r0 <- STACK < 1271157608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r1 <- - r0, 100 < 1271157608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : STACK <- r1 < 1271157608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r2 <- ` 0, r1 < 1271157608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : STACK <- r2 < 1271157610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry: 0 < 1271157612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r3 <- STACK < 1271157614 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ r3 < 1271157616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1271157628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for some reason the "end" command loops to entry point 0, not entry point 1. < 1271157700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The uncompiled trace looks like http://pastebin.com/03uCcPDD < 1271157748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit[0] is the branch to the .@ bit, exit[1] should loop to the beginning, not the if itself. < 1271157905 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM doesn't seem to compile the equivalent C to just return a constant, but the loop completes in 0.00 seconds anyway. < 1271157959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC compiles the equivalent C to an infinite loop; bloody C with its unspecified integer underflow. < 1271157991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another wrapping bug, heh. < 1271158016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, now it prints out 200. < 1271158038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time the compiled trace is: < 1271158040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entry: 0 < 1271158040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r0 <- STACK < 1271158040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r1 <- - r0, 100 < 1271158040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : STACK <- r1 < 1271158040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : r2 <- ` 0, r1 < 1271158041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : _ r2 < 1271158043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1271158044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I tell GCC to optimize based on two's complement semantics? < 1271158112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, -fwrapv. < 1271158135 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, it doesn't optimize it into a constant either. < 1271158158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that is "right" in the sense that it should get 200 from that; "r1 <- - r0, 100" means "r1 = 100 - r0", basically, and it's executed with stack of -100. Don't know how I've *again* managed to get arguments in the wrong order. < 1271158175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you fixed that one already? :-P < 1271158183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought so too. < 1271158263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have misfixed it by reordering the stack-pop instruction generation when the fault was in fact in the stack-folding bit. < 1271158296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both compilers have an extra, unnecessary 'test' instruction in the loop, too. < 1271158393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/jitfunge/src$ time ./jitfunge ../../ff/benchmark.bef 2>/dev/null < 1271158393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2147483596 < 1271158393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m0.112s < 1271158393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m0.090s < 1271158393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m0.020s < 1271158411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not too shabby. < 1271158412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right. < 1271158432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you using LLVM 2.6, by the way? < 1271158435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also quite a lot of tracing IO going out to /dev/null. < 1271158447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is some sort of 2.7, whatever Ubuntu lucid had. < 1271158465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version: 2.7~svn20100409-0ubuntu1 < 1271158485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. < 1271158521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if fixing this broke whatever it was that I misfixed last time. < 1271158532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was something about p, but was it in mycology? < 1271158556 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't, it'll probably turn up in there at some point ;-P < 1271158574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least current version runs mycology with the GGBGs and BUBADs. :p < 1271158762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right; it's most likely because the current LLVM codegen doesn't protect the stack, so popping from empty stack will confuse it. Maybe I'll add a test for that, and figure out how to do the funky segfault-trapping stack with LLVM later. < 1271158805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that it's platform-specific, you can't do it with just LLVM < 1271158824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe there's a related intrinsic somewhere. < 1271158853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I probably can hack together something that works on one platform based on what I already have. < 1271158858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest can use a slower stack. < 1271158875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if it is faster; depends on the frequency of empty-stack-pops, of course. < 1271158887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course you can use inline asm to do it however you like platform-specifically. < 1271159132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need to create ptrtoint instructions if I want to compare two pointers? < 1271159160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, no. < 1271159165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, icmp can compare pointers too. < 1271159166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think icmp works on pointers. < 1271159177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just didn't expect, given the interger-sounding name. < 1271159194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If the operands are pointer typed, the pointer values are compared as if they were integers." < 1271159416 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271159417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1271159444 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i had an idea for a 2-command (space (NOP) and non-space (everything else)) esolang < 1271159471 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think it'll be turing-complete < 1271159479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though wait, i have an idea how to make it so < 1271159642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Aw. Adding the stack underflow protection made it run completely without valgrind errors, but mycology's still BU-BAD. Must be a bug in my logic, then. (How unheard-of!) < 1271159655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Astonishing! < 1271159685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I got the underflow-protected stack pop done without having to add more basic blocks in the mix. :p < 1271159692 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSTANTOUS: http://pastebin.com/Ce9GLxdn < 1271159696 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :design draft < 1271159708 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1271159714 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all seen as in < 1271159724 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ being the NORTH of the instruction pointer's direction < 1271159728 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it's heading west, ^ is WEST < 1271159732 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like that < 1271159763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think < 1271159776 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSTANTOUS stands for POSition's imporTANT...ous < 1271159860 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/GLafvxmk < 1271159891 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new version of draft < 1271159913 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1271159930 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is i dont think any "this setup might stand for that, and also that" things can be found < 1271160120 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: how about building 8088 based computer using prototype board and wires < 1271160147 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i had a protoboard and wires < 1271160148 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1271160187 0 :_asw!~johannale@host86-135-218-196.range86-135.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271160213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/frdr6jm9 < 1271160217 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT v3 < 1271160228 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm writing BIOS for that thing ;d < 1271160234 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1271160236 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1271160250 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i could have a huge wirewrap protoboard < 1271160349 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lucky, just bored :D < 1271160457 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEW version: http://pastebin.com/why9uvaY < 1271160463 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I want to have a prototype board, wires < 1271160465 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tons of chips < 1271160479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to make a 6502 based computer < 1271160481 0 :_asw!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1271160523 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i think i've implemented every combination < 1271160532 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any other combination is found < 1271160536 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just goes forward < 1271160598 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a huge wirewrapping protoboard < 1271160600 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wires < 1271160602 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wirewrap tools < 1271160604 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinity chips < 1271161014 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271161223 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271161497 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271161709 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271161980 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271162094 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271162195 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271162601 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271162810 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271163222 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271163329 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1271163431 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271163705 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271163720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "UNDEF: edge # skips column 80" for ff3; does that mean that a # on the left edge skips the right-most column of the playfield? (I mean, you could be using 0-based column indices there, and mean that a # on right edge "skips" the non-existent column 80 and hits 0, which has the opposite meaning.) < 1271163749 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to be confusing :-P < 1271163759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be a first! Uh, I mean... < 1271163768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the former. < 1271163770 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :But I forced it right! | This space intentionally left | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1271163785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, good; that's what I was hoping for, too. < 1271163917 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271163918 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-98-230.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271164085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I did ff3's wrapping by stealing the "border the playfield with two columns/rows of a special 'jump N spaces to the proper direction" idea from mooz, but adapting that to the "code is represented by a playfield-shaped block of jump target pointers" idea from marsh/others -- which means the jump-instructions don't have to worry about someone p'ing them on the playfield ... < 1271164087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and finally twisting that by making the playfield be basically a 84x29x4 array of pointers, where depth equals delta, and I have 4 implementations of each instruction, with a hardcoded "ip += offset; goto *ip;" afterwards. < 1271164130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A representative sample: http://pastebin.com/0ZG5S5cR < 1271164144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's the <>^v implementations.) < 1271164188 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271164198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1271164206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you don't like it?-) < 1271164272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now do the equivalent for Befunge-98: keep an w*h*5 array where the fifth is used for noncardinal deltas < 1271164322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be done, theoretically speaking, but I don't quite feel like it. < 1271164404 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271164538 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1271164902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"About NetHack: twilight under the low overhang of the greek gods, and around the egg, keeping it warm and helping it to open any lock...." < 1271164904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surreal. < 1271164932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Nethack ones seem to be the best. < 1271164947 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271164969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a relatively low-order model, IIRC, so it doesn't quote so much verbatim, instead... innovates more. < 1271165156 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271165568 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271165688 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1271165777 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271165799 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1271166189 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271166398 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271167014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "op_goleft_right"? < 1271167037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like: Keep left → < 1271167112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now do the equivalent for Befunge-98: keep an w*h*5 array where the fifth is used for noncardinal deltas <-- This would assume static area/AABBs right? < 1271167154 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's independent of your storage solution, but it's probably just a pessimization with hash tables. < 1271167196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1271167638 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271167847 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271168119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: op_goleft is the op, and _right is the current delta; so that bit is called when you hit a < while moving right. < 1271168277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what it does is ip -= sizeof(opset) + sizeof(void *); -- subtracting sizeof(opset) moves it one cell left in the code-playfield, and the sizeof(void *) adjustments alters the "depth" so that it will keep going left from then on. < 1271168342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should've just used a void **ip so that the pointer arithmetic would make that look simpler (ip -= 4+1) there, but, well. < 1271168451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(typedef void *opset[4]; currently.) < 1271168551 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1271168841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1271168857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how much do you gain from those 4 pointers thingy? < 1271168866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, compared to doing it a more "normal" way < 1271168910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also why do you store them interleaved? Wouldn't storing the directions separate possibly be better for cache? Well, depends on the type of program < 1271168952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, are you sure that storing a 32 bit offset to some base wouldn't be faster than storing a full 64-bit pointer? Again due to cache < 1271168985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and where can I get the full source of that program? < 1271169013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I'm not sure, but it's still faster than marsh, which is somewhat similar but calls a "move" function via a function pointer after each instruction. < 1271169029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1271169048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does += PF_W * sizeof(opset); do? < 1271169057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlayField_Width presumably. < 1271169065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, including the borders. < 1271169070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. move down one Y-coordinate. < 1271169071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so that is the logic for moving to next cell? < 1271169094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm I would have expected it to be in the (presumably) macro IP_GOTO < 1271169117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define IP_GOTO do { trace(); goto **(void **)ip; } while (0); < 1271169121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/;$// < 1271169122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you have to duplicate a lot in about every function < 1271169195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be in IP_GOTO because it depends on the direction. Most instructions are expanded from a macro, so there it is just "next" which expands to NEXT_LEFT (say) which expands to MOVE_LEFT; IP_GOTO; which expands to ip -= sizeof(opset); IP_GOTO; < 1271169206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so no macro for it? Presumably for the non-direction changing instructions you have stuff like ip -= sizeof(opset);, ip += sizeof(opset); and so on duplicated a lot? < 1271169207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These direction-changing commands are special, because I need to adjust the distance to change delta. < 1271169216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271169248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the down_down, up_up and so on variants don't need that though < 1271169274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the type of ip? < 1271169277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just thought they looked aesthetically more pleasing like that, as opposed to having just MOVE_DOWN there. < 1271169327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an unsigned char * at the moment, with casts, but I have been thinking of changing it to void ** which is more right, and would remove some explicit sizeofs thanks to pointer arithmetic rules. < 1271169341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never need to point between the void *s there, after all. < 1271169357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so there it is just "next" which expands to NEXT_LEFT (say) which expands to MOVE_LEFT" <-- err, a lot of indirection in those macros? ;P < 1271169393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes the sizeof thingy confused me. What is opset btw? < 1271169401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (typedef void *opset[4]; currently.) < 1271169410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1271169447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, url to this amazing code < 1271169449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically the four pointers to the different-delta implementations of a single playfield cell (or a single instruction, in the ops table). < 1271169453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is still no URL. < 1271169463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any reason not to upload it somewhere? < 1271169493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No particular reason, no. I just don't have a habit of sharing absolutely everything I do. < 1271169512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1271169519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could you please share this one? < 1271169538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you a more 98 person, anyway? < 1271169567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your habits are poor. < 1271169570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is still interesting to study. < 1271169574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try to remember how I had my git.zem.fi configured as soon as I finish testing the non-interleaved version. < 1271169590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how many files is it? < 1271169598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One. < 1271169605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, why not pastebin? ;) < 1271169697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw hypothesis: interleaved will possibly be better for programs turning a lot. It would most likely be better for >:#,_@ style constructs. Non-interleaved will be better for when the program goes in a straight line most of the time. < 1271169721 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1271169736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you absolutely must have an intermediate version, http://pastebin.com/ah2NcAgV < 1271169782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? You mean one mixed interleaved/non-interleaved? < 1271169825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the interleaved thing. < 1271169830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good < 1271169833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not release-quality. :p < 1271169854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, TURN()? < 1271169869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns to arbitrary delta. < 1271169879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it 93 + extras then? < 1271169880 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1271169899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, "arbitrary" meaning any of the four cardinal ones not depending on what the ip is now. < 1271169905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a rather curious meaning, but anyway. < 1271169919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh, but why would it be useful for 93? < 1271169935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, ? < 1271169982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm? I use it in ? only, yes. I could have specialized versions of ? for different deltas (they'd look very much like the current op_gofoo_bars) but I didn't think it was so performance-sensitive. < 1271170009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271170019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, high speed random number generators! < 1271170070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh? where is next defined? < 1271170080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a macro parameter. < 1271170083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh duh < 1271170149 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1271170286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, out of interest, why if and not switch for op_rand? < 1271170333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No real reason for that either. The if takes perhaps two lines less vertical space. < 1271170344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or three, depending on bracing. < 1271170346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm perhaps < 1271170365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or zero, depending on bracing. :-P < 1271170367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one less but that would be messy < 1271170418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch (t) { case 0: TURN(0); NEXT_LEFT; < 1271170418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 1: TURN(1): NEXT_RIGHT; < 1271170418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: TURN(2): NEXT_UP; < 1271170418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 3: TURN(3): NEXT_DOWN; } < 1271170419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't need a variable t though, so that line would be removed and it would be rand()%4 in the switch header < 1271170433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True that. < 1271170441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So negative one, depending on bracing. < 1271170452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or two less < 1271170458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two? < 1271170468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, just write two of the cases on the same line < 1271170481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's getting unreadable already :-P < 1271170483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was a good idea < 1271170509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't fit in 80 columns. < 1271170513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, memcpy(pfcode[pos], ops[val], sizeof *pfcode); <-- wonderful < 1271170531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's special about that? < 1271170569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did I say it was special? < 1271170578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said it was wonderful, which is certainly special. < 1271170586 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1271170601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1271170619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to remove those memcpys for the non-interleaved versions, unfortunately. Updating four far-away locations on each 'p' might hurt. Well, we'll see after some testing. < 1271170638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah hm didn't think about that < 1271170657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, remember to test it on a wide selection of representative b93 programs ;) < 1271170682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pahaha < 1271170688 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adrian^L: i should've known it was you < 1271170801 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lordy, did you actually idle in here for a month before you said something? < 1271171157 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271171366 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271171507 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1271171916 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271171989 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1271172125 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271172392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how goes jitfunge now? < 1271172428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far does it get in mycology and can it run underload.b98? < 1271172434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUBAD. < 1271172445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, BUBAD? That looks mangled < 1271172457 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GGBG. < 1271172469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so , is completely broken or what? < 1271172499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge has a hard time being "completely broken", it seems to usually be partially broken. < 1271172501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming GGBG was what it output for GOOD < 1271172506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1271172510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't. < 1271172516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then what was it? < 1271172522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was GGBG. I don't know why it output it. < 1271172537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1271172552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but at what point does it output that? < 1271172553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, seems fine, anyhow. < 1271172557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See the logs. < 1271172623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which part of it? < 1271172681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the logs? Just grep for GGBG. < 1271172684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh found it < 1271172694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GOOD: 10` = 1 < 1271172694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GGBG < 1271172694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GOOD: a pushes 10 < 1271172695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1271172700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it skips several lines there < 1271172703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1271172774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw: < 1271172777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: a pushes 10 < 1271172777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: b-f push 11-15 < 1271172782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are those separated? < 1271172799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like why not: a-f pushes 10-15 < 1271172803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it only checks for reflection on a. < 1271172808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: a pushes 10 < 1271172808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: b-f push 11-15heh < 1271172809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1271172814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kills synergy
< 1271172815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1271172821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh was what I typed < 1271172831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I got a ghost paste in the buffer at the start somehow < 1271172837 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it has a couple of error messages for a, but just that one GOOD/BAD for b-f. < 1271172840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a split second before I hit enter < 1271172849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1271172976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on an average of one (1) runs, the difference between interleaving isn't very large: http://pastebin.com/J3YshH7a < 1271172984 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1271172997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discount the copy-paste problem that got the compilation and running on the same line. < 1271173002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the benchmark? < 1271173003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) doesn't tend to work that well, I'd do (2). < 1271173024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw how does that ff3.c handle # in column 80 when going > ? < 1271173027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 91+:*-:0`#@ #._ < 1271173058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh I see. < 1271173076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: UNDEF: edge # skips column 80 < 1271173077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91+:*, incidentally, is an awfully complicated way of writing "d". < 1271173088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271173103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, you don't crash due to missing the marker in the padding column < 1271173122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's two column's worth of padding because of that. < 1271173128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, eh how does 91+:* add up to d? < 1271173134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not d, "d". < 1271173141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1271173146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1271173161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In -98, the equivalents would be a:* and 'd < 1271173194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I guess it is semantics: Is it used as a char or as a number < 1271173222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, who cares about assigning semantics to stack cells in Befunge :-P < 1271173234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't 91+:*-:0` comparing -100 to 0? < 1271173243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the first iteration, yes. < 1271173247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1271173269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That code is equivalent to: int s = 0; do s -= 100; while (s <= 0); < 1271173485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, unfair to bignum ;P < 1271173517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit unfair to 64-bit cells too, like I noticed when trying to benchmark against marsh, which uses a stack made out of longs. < 1271173552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271173566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how long until you gave up? Or did it finish? < 1271173582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1271173611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is unsure what rough timeframe it would end up in for 64-bit cells
< 1271173643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiply by 2^32 ~= 4 billion < 1271173650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say 6 seconds for 32-bit. Then we have 6 * 2^32... Ouch < 1271173678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I waited some five minutes or so. < 1271173682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I ran it for about 10 mins in CCBI and cfunge and then realized they were both 64-bit :-P < 1271173698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 817 years < 1271173700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1271173707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only? < 1271173712 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long enough anyways. < 1271173718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I could have typoed in units(1) < 1271173718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 6*2^32 seconds in years < 1271173731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what bot? < 1271173732 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 * (2^32) seconds = 816.613247 years < 1271173735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271173750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run type calc < 1271173751 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc is /tmp/hackenv.15888/bin/calc < 1271173753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marsh takes 12 seconds on my system; not that another power of 2 matters *that* much. < 1271173756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`file bin/calc < 1271173758 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/calc: Bourne-Again shell script text executable < 1271173790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run head bin/calc | tr '\n' '|' < 1271173791 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/bash|if [ ! "$1" ]|then| echo 'Calculate what?'| exit 1|fi||QUERY=`echo -n "$1" | od -t x1 -A n -w1000 | tr " " %`||lynx --cfg=/dev/null --lss=/dev/null \| < 1271173811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run grep -i google bin/calc < 1271173812 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--dump --width=1000 'http://google.com/search?q='"$QUERY" | < 1271173815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271173849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1271173853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how long did it take for 32-bit CCBI? < 1271173871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hadn't a 32-bit CCBI binary so I haven't tried. < 1271173877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271173895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, presumably more than 6 seconds though < 1271173960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1271174013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 mins. for CCBI (in B98 mode) < 1271174020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what to compare that to, though. < 1271174027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what version, for that matter. < 1271174043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Did you notice the part about CCBI reflecting on ; in 93-mode? < 1271174076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and no need to single out ;, it'll reflect on every non-93 instruction. < 1271174123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, he was strongly against that sort of thing. :p < 1271174143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I noticed. :-P < 1271174182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI takes 27 seconds for me here. < 1271174193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 only. < 1271174245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Average of 20 runs; not much of a difference: http://pastebin.com/EwDv8J2e < 1271174271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could even have been other stuff on the system, it's not very idle. < 1271174280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 seconds in -98; I wonder how that manages to be faster. < 1271174335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it could be the wraparound. < 1271174343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably is, actually. < 1271174368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes it non-wrappy
< 1271174425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, now it's 9 seconds in -93 and 14 in -98. < 1271174453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Befunge-93 loader always makes an 80x25 box, you see. < 1271174472 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, IIRC, it uses the same wrapping code as -98. < 1271174486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for every iteration, the -93 did an extra 70 or so nops. < 1271174554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff3 does those nops too; haven't bothered to try tracking borders. For non-p-heavy programs it could make sense to put the wrapping instructions around the program, not the whole playfield. < 1271174813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Right, well, he was strongly against that sort of thing. :p <-- who? Rugxulo? And why is he against it. < 1271174868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So for every iteration, the -93 did an extra 70 or so nops. <-- yet it was faster? < 1271174887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was more than twice as slow. < 1271174892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, now it's 9 seconds in -93 and 14 in -98. < 1271174899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you reversed the order then < 1271174902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice how the tense changed. < 1271174916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1271174920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"_Now_ it _is_ [faster in -93]" < 1271174932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The -93 _did_ an extra 70 or so nops" < 1271174948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But, IIRC, it uses the same wrapping code as -98. <-- should have been used there then? < 1271174950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1271174960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Befunge-93 loader always makes an 80x25 box, you see. <-- or on that line < 1271174971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1271174972 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271174977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those remain correct. < 1271174992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so how did you make it faster if you didn't change those < 1271175002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2010-04-13 17:59:04 * Deewiant makes it non-wrappy < 1271175011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271175016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice that < 1271175044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then why is 93 mode faster than 98 mode? Completely different mainloop or something? < 1271175057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, lots of simplifications can be mode. < 1271175059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made. < 1271175086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true but is it worth the code duplication and such? < 1271175116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code duplication would happen anyway, to not slow down 98. < 1271175126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271175162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why @eris? A strange system name to me < 1271175238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't figure out anything else, so used the well-used and -reused Greeks. < 1271175248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271175253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who was eris then < 1271175265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddess of discord; also the goddess of discordians. < 1271175266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simplifying the wrapping code brought it down to 16 seconds. Still loses to -98, though. < 1271175271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271175275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION throws AnMaster an apple
< 1271175285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Be careful, you might throw it over his head. < 1271175293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION then whistles innocently
< 1271175300 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1271175310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1271175311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm not picking up anything _you_ threw. < 1271175323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows, it could be a tick one that sprays water at you or something < 1271175340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Momus, where fungot runs, is another one of those. < 1271175340 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'd be happy to help you with that? < 1271175344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Momus or Momos (μῶμος) was in Greek mythology the god of satire, mockery, censure, writers, poets; a spirit of evil-spirited blame and unfair criticism. < 1271175345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, saved by his natural paranoia < 1271175348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought it appropriate for a webserver. < 1271175392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quite a diverse list < 1271175413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the censure part doesn't seem to fit in < 1271175441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`define censure < 1271175443 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* harsh criticism or disapproval \ * reprimand: rebuke formally \ * excommunication: the state of being excommunicated < 1271175537 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1271175564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION puts the apple in oerjan's pocket, picking it up using a long pole with a griping tool at the end
< 1271175630 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-192-54.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271175643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why CCBI is about 5-10% faster on underload.b98 when it's got 64-bit cells. < 1271175656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1271175702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fool, it was a golden apple! < 1271175720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golden delicious, to be precise. *munch* < 1271175721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the grip was coated in aqua regia. < 1271175747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a thickening substance added, so you can actually coat with it) < 1271175764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't think that is healthy to eat < 1271175810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've got plenty of acid in my stomach already. < 1271175832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271176517 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271177398 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1271180311 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271180461 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271180810 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1271180863 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271181003 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271181081 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-213-57.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1271181188 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1271181342 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271181691 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271181831 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271181926 0 :charlesq__!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271181951 0 :charlesq__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271182128 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1271182150 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1271182985 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271182994 0 :gapz!~gapz@rennes1.dunnewind.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271183010 0 :gapz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1271183039 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1271183106 0 :aschueler!~alec@host86-167-40-196.range86-167.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1271183480 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1271183592 0 :nooga!~nooga@c140-237.icpnet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1271186767 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1271187045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271187713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how goes it? < 1271188424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which "it"? < 1271188431 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-205-111.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1271188848 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@77.49.132.31.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1271189932 0 :cat_!~cat@89-179-111-141.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1271190767 0 :cat_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271190776 0 :cat_!~cat@89-179-111-141.broadband.corbina.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1271190798 0 :cat_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1271191809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1271193336 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271193728 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1271194080 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-198.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271194259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet back! < 1271194300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, jitfunge and ff3 < 1271194305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1271194325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and does -fmerge-all-constants really make any difference? < 1271194330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does it still work then? < 1271194346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting half a mind to write a Befunge-98 interpreter. < 1271194358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, BTW, I fixed my Befunge-93 interpreter. < 1271194364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, link? < 1271194371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Un momento. < 1271194379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CSZJ < 1271194385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer a memento to be frank ;P < 1271194404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The command line was from Rugxulo's marsh compilation, I just used the same flags to be fair; probably doesn't much matter. < 1271194468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it still counts -128 is not a prime < 1271194482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still valgrind errors too < 1271194493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My funges aren't really going; I'm too flu-ish to work on them. But you can get the latest (optionally non-interleaved) ff3 from http://git.zem.fi/ff if you like. There's also a nasty jitfunge bug I've been trying to track, but probably won't tonight. < 1271194496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Uh, WTF and WTF? < 1271194520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sec < 1271194523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge *brain explodes* < 1271194532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Valgrind's stack traces are indeed not very useful for problems in LLVM's JIT'd functions: < 1271194533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==9627== Conditional jump or move depends on uninitialised value(s) < 1271194534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==9627== at 0x4048354: ??? < 1271194534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==9627== by 0x5C22C4C: (below main) (libc-start.c:226) < 1271194541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it definitely does Wumpus correctly. :P < 1271194550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://sprunge.us/iHXP < 1271194581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about gdb? Is it as useless or does llvm do some funky JIT debug info that gdb can read? < 1271194611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and with --db-attach remember to never to s or c! When I did that I had to kill -KILL valgrind < 1271194623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I presume the same applies to any other continue commands < 1271194660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, that's an easy fix. < 1271194693 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I could attach a debugger, I guess. There's a minor pessimization in the code in that it creates an "entry point" at the end of a (looping) function instead of the beginning; that results in a bit convoluted LLVM assembly, but I don't want to fix it because it would probably hide this bug. < 1271194718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what was the bug with wumpus btw? < 1271194741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I had val1 and val2 as unsigned ints instead of ints. < 1271194757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus screwing up signed comparison. < 1271194759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/LGJX < 1271194772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh that caused wumpus failing? < 1271194776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still getting issues with prime, but no invalid reads outside of libc. < 1271194777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1271194788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also caused the failure of a simple benchmark. < 1271194832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I still get negative values in prime? < 1271194854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure. < 1271194858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean that was the still left issue < 1271194859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh... if I add the "--db-attach=yes" flag, the error disappears. < 1271194865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, whoops < 1271194872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the still-remaining issue. < 1271194878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm honestly not sure how that's doing wrap-around. < 1271194896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, printf("%d") -> printf("%u") or such perhaps < 1271194898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1271194902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't looked at the code < 1271194923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing < 1271194927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf %i? < 1271194935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is %i < 1271194952 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Signed integer. < 1271194959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is the issue then :P < 1271194964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1271194975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1271194976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1271194984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh*. < 1271194999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's sticking numbers in fungespace, yes? < 1271195004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1271195013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungespace is a bunch of signed chars. < 1271195018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is that the spec? < 1271195030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Undefined". < 1271195047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, does it say it is char even? < 1271195060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an "80x25 torus of ASCII text", that's about all. < 1271195077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it would be entirely valid for that to be 7-bit. < 1271195078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many make it unsigned bytes. < 1271195079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh and it segfaults on pi2 again < 1271195114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 s->buf = realloc(s->buf, s->bufsz); < 1271195116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on that line < 1271195123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** glibc detected *** /home/arvid/dragon/funges/pikhq-bef/pikhq-bef-tux: realloc(): invalid next size: 0x0000000000607010 *** < 1271195126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. < 1271195140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Here's the very useful gdb backtrace on the error: < 1271195142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, valgrind shows a write error before < 1271195143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) bt < 1271195143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#0 0x0000000004048354 in ?? () < 1271195143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 0x00000007ff0002e0 in ?? () < 1271195143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 0x0000000005c77a3f in _IO_new_file_overflow (f=0x0, ch=-16776704) at fileops.c:889 < 1271195143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#3 0x0000000000000000 in ?? () < 1271195159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1271195169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, disassemble, I guess that is all you can do < 1271195185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I suspect you overwrite malloc bookkeeping data < 1271195190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a hunch < 1271195208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungespace[val1][val2] = val3; < 1271195217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1271195227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's just that the disassemblies are a lot more understandable when it's my code generator instead of LLVM's. < 1271195228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you fail at bounds checking? :D < 1271195238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is no bounds checking. < 1271195241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1271195251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well that is wrong ;P < 1271195266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it's invoking undefined behavior. < 1271195267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1271195268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I would do it abs(x) % 80 and so on < 1271195288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure, but I consider it a bug to crash on invalid input < 1271195289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go make it do more sane behavior, though. < 1271195292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any app < 1271195313 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271195323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, this is why I'm adding boundschecking. < 1271195328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1271195346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I recommend using a fuzz tester btw. It would catch this type of stuff < 1271195382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1271195393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please input a number: 3 < 1271195394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: got 3 which is hopefully correct. < 1271195394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please input a character: UNDEF: got 10 ' < 1271195394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' which is hopefully correct. < 1271195396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff3 doesn't do bounds checking either, to be honest; it's not like a well-behaved program would need it. < 1271195399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is how it should work < 1271195405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might be undef in b93 < 1271195412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's... Issues with that. < 1271195423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's undefined, but yes, I should fix it. < 1271195429 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's undef in b98 as well. < 1271195430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in b98 I'm pretty sure integer input should eat the newline if one follows it directly < 1271195437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is it? Huh < 1271195437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Link to fastfunge? < 1271195439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC the spec doesn't say that. < 1271195443 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Undefined but I should fix it." < 1271195448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "everyone does it"? < 1271195456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it because it seemed sensible, and since then it seems everybody else does it. :-P < 1271195461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well okay < 1271195488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you are a trendsetter ;P < 1271195496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep :-P < 1271195499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://git.zem.fi/ff < 1271195517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I get valgrind errors enter a to mycouser as the number < 1271195528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the letter a < 1271195537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==27876== Use of uninitialised value of size 8 < 1271195538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==27876== at 0x4E695CB: _itoa_word (in /lib/libc-2.11.1.so) < 1271195539 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One screaming bug at a time man. :P < 1271195547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, link to bug tracker? < 1271195575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: irc://irc.freenode.com/esoteric < 1271195580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1271195593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well I will write them down in a text file and pastebin that < 1271195776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay for me to paste the bug descriptions now? < 1271195793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invalid reads fixed (stupidity in stack regrowing). < 1271195796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TfeK < 1271195799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycouser.b98: < 1271195800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* valgrind errors on ctrl-d at integer prompt. B98 reflects. Unknown what B93 does. < 1271195800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* valgrind errors on non-numeric data at integer prompt. This might be undef in b93, b98 tends to (defined to?) discard leading non-numeric data, and keep retrying until it get some numeric data. < 1271195803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Resizing. < 1271195824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that latter one is defined. < 1271195941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only valgrind errors I'm seeing are from libc... < 1271195965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a sneaking suspicion that their printf does crazy stuff. < 1271195987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the ones I see there are itoa < 1271196013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://sprunge.us/KbTd < 1271196029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and printf < 1271196047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but that might be because itoa returns some undef value < 1271196052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to you passing it a non-number < 1271196055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible. < 1271196096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh see: < 1271196098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==27931== Uninitialised value was created by a stack allocation < 1271196098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==27931== at 0x400C68: instrs (pikhq-bef.c:153) < 1271196103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with valgrind --track-origins=yes ./pikhq-bef-tux ~/dragon/src/own/cfunge/trunk/mycology/mycouser.b98 < 1271196125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's helpful. < 1271196131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes, it is slower too < 1271196139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not noticeable so for this case < 1271196148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that nothing is made at that line. < 1271196157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except the stack frame itself. < 1271196157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure it is, the stack frame < 1271196160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, exactly < 1271196169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, which means you know which function < 1271196200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh seems to be main one < 1271196222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, point is, I think you do something funky when trying to parse letters as integers < 1271196229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Ah*. < 1271196247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When that happens, the value ends up being unchanged from what it was. < 1271196249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad pikhq not checking return value of scanf :P < 1271196255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Said value is... Undefined. < 1271196315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. ("Don't use scanf()" is my preference, but if you use it you should know the semantics, because then you will decide not to use it) < 1271196321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1271196328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CJcX < 1271196336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with scanf? < 1271196351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is without odd valgrind errors, and I'll go about fixing the actual *behavior* next time the mood strikes. < 1271196363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know what to fix and how to fix it, just can't be bothered to) < 1271196387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that it is a mess? Especially for reading strings < 1271196394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat less so for integers, but still < 1271196398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it a mess? < 1271196448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, I don't know how to explain it. It feels like gets() almost in "eww" level < 1271196463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems fine to me :-P < 1271196467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only way it could be worse would be using global buffers and being non-reentrant < 1271196484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strtok() is that level of ewww < 1271196508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* The strtok() function uses a static buffer while parsing, so it's not thread safe. Use strtok_r() if this matters to you." < 1271196552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'd expect from C :-P < 1271196629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271196654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, testing on random data I get a valgrind error < 1271196659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/JMQU < 1271196664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was on the program itself < 1271196674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I filebin my compiled version? < 1271196704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, or can you reproduce it with your own copy? < 1271196775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *prod*? < 1271196788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your rush? < 1271196833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ? < 1271196840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*prod*" < 1271196884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know if I should filebin it or go do other stuff < 1271196889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while being afk < 1271196912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow I got it to do: < 1271196914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal instruction < 1271196917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"*prod*" generally doesn't help < 1271196921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by running it on /dev/urandom < 1271196922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1271196929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1271196939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, see http://sprunge.us/NAIM too < 1271196946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but it still shouldn't crash! < 1271196966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC pikhq was accepting crashes for undefined behaviour < 1271197016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: it crashes on negative values because lookup table go from 0 to 256 < 1271197024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1271197026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-255 < 1271197027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fungespace is signed < 1271197036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it reads below the place it should read < 1271197159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay there are two things. One is somehow loading the file it can end up doing something fishy < 1271197166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other seems to be what I thought < 1271197313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, basically, using chars in the range 128-255 I think you can cause it to execute any code you want < 1271197339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure how much you can trigger it. Some tests on urandom had it jumping into unmapped address space at one point < 1271197375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28011== Access not within mapped region at address 0xD39AD3D < 1271197375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28011== at 0xD39AD3D: ??? < 1271197375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28011== by 0x400C56: main (pikhq-bef.c:150) < 1271197399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: < 1271197400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28013== Bad permissions for mapped region at address 0x3 < 1271197400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28013== at 0x3: ??? < 1271197400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28013== by 0x400C56: main (pikhq-bef.c:150) < 1271197433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wow I got it to end up inside the valgrind helper itself < 1271197435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28016== Bad permissions for mapped region at address 0x380040B0 < 1271197435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==28016== at 0x380040B0: ??? (in /usr/lib/valgrind/exp-ptrcheck-amd64-linux) < 1271197542 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271197600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You bumped the wumpus." <-- huh I thought you were eaten instead < 1271197615 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are variants. < 1271197628 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271197655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so < 1271197699 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1271197724 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271197763 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271197845 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271198178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, well. Make fungespace signed. < 1271198179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Unsigned. < 1271198213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no idea where that is < 1271198258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, -Dchar="unsigned char"? < 1271198283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah, would be evil) < 1271198297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/KJTi < 1271198299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar. < 1271198366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and still this: http://sprunge.us/dJId < 1271198386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, something messed up in file loading < 1271198479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, basically you need exp-ptrcheck to detect it because it is writing in a valid area of the memory. Just not the *right* valid area < 1271198523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it happens on mycology too I think you go one further than your array < 1271198527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for funge space < 1271198529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1271198531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/<=/, then add one to the pointer, etc < 1271199392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a massive switch statement < 1271199406 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know I sound like a noob, but the '[' and ']' always get me < 1271199414 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while looping always gets me < 1271199414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only slightly difficult thing to do there is handling loops; for BF interps, there are at least three ways to do it, probably five or 6 < 1271199429 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1271199443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one easy one is to move forwards/backwards through the program counting brackets until you reach a balance < 1271199454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: Don't worry. That's the one that it's *possible* to screw up without being a complete noob. :P < 1271199454 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1271199474 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1271199508 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I'm writing in a c like language, I want to have the whole program stored in a char array < 1271199515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely. < 1271199522 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an interger reading it one character at a time < 1271199532 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like code[instruction] < 1271199537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the simple case, yes. < 1271199548 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1271199555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works fine for BF, it's arguably designed so that that's possible < 1271199574 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1271199588 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will something, and be back! < 1271199653 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, and one other thing. < 1271199659 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am going to be writing it in bc < 1271199677 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the putchar and getchar will be in base 10/16 < 1271199713 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I'll try C first < 1271199721 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds easier < 1271199733 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i tend to talk to myself in public online < 1271199777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter, monologuing can be useful < 1271199784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sometimes get logreaders responding to you months later < 1271199793 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1271199804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even just lurkers coming up with something insightful < 1271199815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, monologuing is fairly normal here. < 1271199834 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\\////\\\\///\\\/// < 1271199849 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I was just playing with the keyboard and accidently hit enter < 1271199858 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get a prize for that, do I? < 1271199875 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google bc language < 1271199877 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bc is "an arbitrary precision calculator language" with syntax similar to the C programming language. It is generally used by typing the command bc on a ... \ [13]POSIX bc - [14]Plan 9 bc - [15]GNU bc - [16]Example code < 1271199883 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that bc :P < 1271199886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1271199899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: meh, that's along the same lines as random o-ing < 1271199919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I type a lot to unstick keys on a keyboard (although not often needed here), and press return just to give something to talk aobut < 1271199921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1271199955 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp < 1271199956 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1271199962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POOPPY! < 1271199983 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LIKE CHICKEN < 1271200029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, maybe I should link coppro to http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/ookLanguage too < 1271200090 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cross compiling C for the ipod touch, with headers like stdio.h < 1271200095 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the brainfuck < 1271200108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlwtf < 1271200126 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: That violates the Apple SDK's license agreement :P < 1271200128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo < 1271200128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, maybe I should link coppro to http://code.msdn.microsoft.com/ookLanguage too <-- wth < 1271200157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as far as I can tell, Microsoft wanted an example of adding a new language to Visual Studio < 1271200160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271200169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and picked a relatively simple esolang in order to keep the example simple < 1271200172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why didn't they pick intercal ;P < 1271200176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271200178 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or unlambda < 1271200184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still kind-of crazy that there's semi-offiical support for Ook! in Visual Studio 2010, though < 1271200195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that you can integrate new languages until they make it easy to use a custom build system < 1271200195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I guess both INTERCAL and Unlambda would be too complex for an example < 1271200197 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or dupdog < 1271200208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly anyone's heard of dupdog < 1271200210 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271200224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was dupdog now again? < 1271200238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was one developed in this channel when someone was messing with egobot < 1271200242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Dupdog if you need a link < 1271200279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those languages that "we" think is almost certainly sub-TC, but can't prove it < 1271200280 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271200301 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1271200303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the dual interpreter one < 1271200313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you like that category of langs, Xigxag's a fun one; it's been proven that nontrivial Xigxag programs grow indefinitely, but not that you can't get TC behaviour from them anyway) < 1271200341 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favorite category of the wiki is unknown computational class < 1271200367 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My favorite category is Languages written by Gregor Richards < 1271200413 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By 'sub-TC', you mean you think it is not TC? < 1271200423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, idea: implement it in a sub-TC lang < 1271200431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think it would be impossible < 1271200434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yep < 1271200445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be precise, sub-TC means it can't do everything that a TC lang can < 1271200462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncomputable is also non-TC, but it's over TC rather than under < 1271200472 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1271200485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the existence of uncomputable langs is really a matter of philosophy, as to whether they can really be said to exist or not < 1271200487 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language that's only command is "X" < 1271200492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define them but not implement them < 1271200493 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X prints out one of two things < 1271200501 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P=NP or P!=NP < 1271200501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guhh ... not necessarily? A language can be uncomputable but not useful for computation, can't it? < 1271200509 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will write the interpreter < 1271200513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: good point, it's independent < 1271200515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes natural languages uncomputable right? < 1271200535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: natural languages are incompletely specified, you can't work out their computational class as a result < 1271200553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: it's trivial to write an interp for that, just so long as you don't care about the output being correct < 1271200559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if you can describe an uncomputable language in natural languages... < 1271200576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: again, arguably you can't describe /anything/ in a natural language < 1271200586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1271200590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not convinced being able to describe something is the same as being able to implement it < 1271200597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1271200605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the meaning isn't pinned down to the level required to have a useful implementation < 1271200616 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slightly related question < 1271200641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you implement anything in a natural language? Well I guess IRP... < 1271200646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: well, feel free to ask it; also, you need to allow for the way that multiple conversations can happen in the same channel < 1271200651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure if IRP coutns < 1271200652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*counts < 1271200655 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay IRP 8-D < 1271200656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1271200662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's one of those langs like HQ9+ < 1271200666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously useless, yet it makes you think < 1271200685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is far more powerful than HQ9+ if the interpreters are in the mood for it ;P < 1271200699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, but rather less accurate < 1271200710 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271200714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do we have the computational class of HQ9+ down as atm anyway? < 1271200716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it is probabilistic < 1271200726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probabilisticness makes it so hard to tell < 1271200728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the probability decreases with the complexity of the program < 1271200750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9+ is probabalistic? < 1271200757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no. IRP < 1271200773 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there were a theoretical computer with two processors, one infinitely fast, and another at 1hz, and it's function is to run code on the infinite speed processor, piping random input to it while the 1hz processor waits 1 second, would it solve the halting problem because all possible outcomes/modes of running were run in 1 second? < 1271200797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: yep, the existence of an infinitely fast computer is one way to get uncomputable behaviour < 1271200804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, anything that lets you do infinite computations in finite time < 1271200837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all known methods to get uncomputable behaviour are impossible to implement; if someone found something super-TC that could be implemented, it would be a major shock to anyone who knew what the terms meant < 1271200849 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the halting problem is near-computable when the code doesn't take input, and is run on a superfast processor < 1271200873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can think of it as being only a "factor of infinity" away from being computable < 1271200877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's rather a large factor < 1271200902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would be a major shock to me if someone found something that was an UTM and could be implemented < 1271200907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an UTM I mean < 1271200921 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a factor of infinity be infinity < 1271200922 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1271200922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that requires infinite data storage < 1271200926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: yes < 1271200930 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there goes my theory < 1271200933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, you need a computer that's infinitely more powerful than existing ones < 1271200938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any finite number isn't good enough < 1271200939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes that is why a real life UTM would be a major shock indeed < 1271200955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: real life extendable-storage is entirely possible, though < 1271200964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only reason it wouldn't work is the Earth running out of resources to extend it < 1271200967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but if the universe is infinite (I don't know which way the astronomers currently think it is) then I guess... < 1271200968 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1271200980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the observable universe is finite < 1271201001 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by definition) < 1271201009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but it only needs to be infinite in potentia. You can start the program while you are still building the end of the tape < 1271201010 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be infinite < 1271201027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: The UNIVERSE could be, the OBSERVABLE universe could not. < 1271201034 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some theories about an infinite observable universe < 1271201043 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back in the static model < 1271201048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, you might have to pause the thing if it caught up with you and continue extending it < 1271201055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if time goes infinitely back, sure, but that's all weird :P < 1271201056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: by definition, combined with the values of a few constants which we happen to know the approximate values of < 1271201060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pausing's fine < 1271201064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is literally running out of storage < 1271201070 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala: Good language, or bad language < 1271201076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used it < 1271201078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly language. < 1271201085 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1271201089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1271201093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The usual argument against it was the blackness of the sky < 1271201104 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there are actually some configuration where it doesn't happen < 1271201113 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A universe with a fractal structure works < 1271201116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity alise isn't here, that's who you should ask for (relatively accurate) judgements on how good languages are < 1271201122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. Well if the universe is infinite and the observable universe is not then you could just extend the tape when it was needed < 1271201138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can never catch up with the speed of light this is no problem < 1271201146 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : You cannot, actually < 1271201152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is a problem, because you can never get outside the observable area < 1271201154 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were some calculations done about this < 1271201158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't get bigger, it gets smaller over time < 1271201164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh? < 1271201170 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, space expansion < 1271201170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that work < 1271201172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can't "wait for things to become observable" < 1271201183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can it get smaller over time+ < 1271201186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/+/?/ < 1271201200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think of it staying the same size but everything else getting bigger to compensate < 1271201204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so effectively, it gets smallre < 1271201205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*smaller < 1271201208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrr < 1271201208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1271201220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean that space expands? okay < 1271201222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did NOT want to be reminded about how there's a RoboZZle app for iPhone but not Android < 1271201234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well does one end of the tape have to be able to observe the other end? < 1271201252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, or you can /never/ get to the bit of the tape you can't observe < 1271201256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you have two different programs < 1271201260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be missing the concept of "observable" here < 1271201275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way that anything that isn't observable, from your point of view, can ever affect you < 1271201279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what you do or what happens < 1271201283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, with current physics < 1271201284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I assume that if I wait long enough the light from it will reach me. Otherwise I would just setup a wormhole and go over there < 1271201292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it won't < 1271201298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes no sense < 1271201299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's moving away from you at faster than the speed of light < 1271201300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be a bad thing to do most of my recreational programming in Scala? < 1271201308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the light gets further away from you over time < 1271201314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well okay so the tape would break by that wouldn't it? < 1271201330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how comes earth and everything isn't torn apart by this < 1271201330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, yes < 1271201348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the effect over a small scale is too small to notice < 1271201362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gravity/elasticity is a much stronger effect on the small scale < 1271201370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by "small" I mean "smaller than a galaxy or so" < 1271201375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay what about a wormhole then when you start reaching the problematic area? < 1271201386 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1271201388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wormholes may change the way this works < 1271201396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they haven't been proven to exist < 1271201412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, so would finding something with better information storage density than a black hole < 1271201422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: that's a theoretical limit, nobody's entirely sure how to store information in a black hole) < 1271201424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1271201431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1271201435 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it's like outside of time-space, in a black hole < 1271201497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: impossible to perceive with any known measuring device, I imagine < 1271201498 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271201521 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271201562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at something that falls into a black hole from the outside, it's like it sort of stops and fades < 1271201582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it falls in slowly over the course of forever, but quickly the light disappears < 1271201594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you could generate energy like that < 1271201603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exponential decay in theory) < 1271201612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish to add to this: current models are *models* that means that they are more or less accurate approximations of "reality". That could explain some weirdness related to black holes < 1271201624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably less accurate, the universe is just that weird < 1271201626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it is so, just that it is worth considering < 1271201633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along < 1271201647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1271201651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming up with some new weirdness whenever they reach a level at which we can actually detect what happens < 1271201654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds like discworld almost < 1271201655 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1271201658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to explain most of physics, IMO < 1271201666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is obvious < 1271201666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along < 1271201669 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :149| theory: some amused deity is making the laws of physics up as they go along < 1271201672 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the world is a computer simulation < 1271201689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure. I recently heard that from the point of view of a photon, every distance is zero < 1271201689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at high levels, things work in simple manner because they've been programmed that way < 1271201690 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: However, not that lame "statistically we're a computer simulation" theory BS. < 1271201695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, time doesn't pass < 1271201709 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe is a computer simulation, within a computer simulation, within a computer simulation ad infinitum. < 1271201712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amongst many other things this doesn't explain the term "light year" < 1271201713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1271201714 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at low levels, things break down because we get to the actual level near code < 1271201716 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nah < 1271201718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe contains itself (in a simulation) and is its own cause. < 1271201724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: that theory fails, because statistically speaking, we're likely to have a different theory of statistics from other simulations < 1271201731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The universe is clearly a highly accurate universe implementation. < 1271201736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's why I called it lame :P < 1271201740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result, the universe that contains ours is likely to have a different theory of statistics from ours < 1271201744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so, all bets are off < 1271201754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1271201761 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What a hilariously useless statement X-D < 1271201771 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe that contains ours... < 1271201773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, isn't it? < 1271201775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and another thing: photons lack mass. Yet they can push things (see: solar sails) < 1271201780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck is that possible < 1271201791 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have momentum < 1271201793 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Photons possess energy. < 1271201797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm < 1271201818 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they hit something, they vibrate slower and push a little < 1271201820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have (mass-energy) < 1271201824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :energy is conserved < 1271201827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another fun thing: you know the weird photon/wave duality of light? < 1271201832 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just light. < 1271201833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1271201835 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just light < 1271201837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, electrons too < 1271201838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrons do the same thing. < 1271201838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1271201840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1271201841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sound waves < 1271201842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1271201846 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fullerenes < 1271201848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should create a partical/wave-dual esolang < 1271201852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, not sound waves ... or fullerenes. < 1271201852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, sound wave behave like particles?? < 1271201857 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1271201859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phonons! < 1271201863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[citation needed] < 1271201863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1271201869 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do soundwaves have the same capabilities of photons, like pushing things? < 1271201879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how the fuck does a sound wave behave like a particle < 1271201884 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonon < 1271201885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: Sound waves are literally the pushing of things. < 1271201886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95: soundwaves can certainly push things, given that they're inherently mechanical anyway < 1271201894 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1271201930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1271201938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, Gregor, fullerenes have been experimentally observed to have wavelengths too. De Broglie's equation applies to all waves and particles < 1271201960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fullerenes? < 1271201962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, what is the wavelength of a coppro? < 1271201972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, carbon allotrope (sp?) < 1271201973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fairly low. < 1271201974 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how fast I'm moving < 1271201983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a book where the wavelength of a human was calculated < 1271201995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was really really incredibly small < 1271201996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh, what did it end up at < 1271202003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember the exact value < 1271202014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, to the order of magnitude? < 1271202026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: smaller than even most stuff that comes up in fundamental physics < 1271202031 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha I played wikipedia race, and in 14 links got from Phonon to house of wax(film) < 1271202040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe around 10^-30, to an order of magnitude of order of magnitudes < 1271202061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1271202070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in meters? < 1271202076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1271202086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be any unit you like at that degree of inaccuracy < 1271202087 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, when walking, my wavelength is roughly 1.5*10^-35 metres < 1271202092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if it was in Hz it would be rather different < 1271202095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than if it was in meters < 1271202107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hz are not a measure of distance < 1271202112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, correct < 1271202115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/distance < 1271202125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it would end up so differently < 1271202128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/period < 1271202137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matter_wave Calculate it yourself. < 1271202138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1271202143 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hz = s^-1 < 1271202169 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can actually do quantum mechanics without the whole wave thing < 1271202174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how did you get from wavelength to hz then? < 1271202176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1271202181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm too sleepy < 1271202218 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wavelength is related to frequency by velocity < 1271202224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1271202236 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*momentum < 1271202240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1271202255 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes) < 1271202261 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :momentum has a mass dimension < 1271202268 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wavelength and frequency do not < 1271202275 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the Planck constant < 1271202289 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't talking about the de Broglie equation < 1271202296 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1271202299 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1271202306 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also works for light < 1271202310 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1271202311 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And phonons < 1271202315 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f\ = v < 1271202317 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though they're only pseudoparticles < 1271202335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for light, this is extra simple because v = c in a vacuum < 1271202400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fullerons < 1271202422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait i suppose fullerene already refers to the particle version < 1271202456 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fulleraves? < 1271202466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full rave? < 1271202612 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1271202660 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1271202900 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do people usually get mad if you haphazardly post large chunks of code and ask what your doing wrong? < 1271202956 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :songhead95 : Post them on pastebin < 1271202968 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1271203045 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/ZD1faJ6X < 1271203062 0 :songhead95!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I followed earlier instructions without adding the loops yet