< 1271447654 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, it's also in 

< 1271447660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because you don't have admin rights to him
< 1271447661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
v.<>:|  @
< 1271447663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1271447667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v.<>:|  @  <-- broken in source too yes
< 1271447672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't you find one yourself?
< 1271447676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that 
 is on a separate line
< 1271447683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that makes no difference
< 1271447685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, as said earlier, this isn't #irp
< 1271447687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to paste it in one line
< 1271447687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1271447695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why random #esotericers should have to answer your questions
< 1271447701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah couldn't see that what with 
 on another one
< 1271447723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, but you'll probably produce a nicer algorithm than other sources.
< 1271447738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As for adjectives, maybe "wicked" instead of wrong, though "doing it wicked" sounds a bit strange.
< 1271447755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK. But I would need more specifics of course, like which ones to generate and so on
< 1271447775 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm still not sure I would do that right now anyways.
< 1271447798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: All of them, in any order. Uniqueness doesn't matter.
< 1271447805 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk; cleaning dog vomit
< 1271447808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not /quite/ like a computer, then :-)
< 1271447812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1271447813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can we agree to unimplement static areas? I don't like them :-P
< 1271447817 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You don't have to, of course :P
< 1271447829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what? Of course I'll keep it
< 1271447834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh
< 1271447844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why should I remove it when it speeds things up? :P
< 1271447853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It slows down wrapping programs
< 1271447863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? AABBs don't though
< 1271447866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It increases memory usage
< 1271447869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes
< 1271447876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For CCBI, it's only faster because the hardware is faster at using constants than variables
< 1271447879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I prefer speed in speed-memory tradeoffs
< 1271447887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's such a hack all in all :-P
< 1271447889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well sure, but that is always true
< 1271447898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you don't need to implement it in CCBI
< 1271447899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realise that memory bandwidth is the main source of speed nowadays?
< 1271447900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have to be true, if your hardware is sufficiently stupid
< 1271447901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one forced you to
< 1271447908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD
< 1271447909 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, now I know. I will do it when I want to but not right now. Perhaps I can use dc because it support arbritrary-precision-number
< 1271447914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently -O3 is often slower than -Os nowadays just because the smaller code fits more nicely into the cache
< 1271447927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's often been true, actually.
< 1271447929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gcc 4.5 miscompiles cfunge at -O3 I noticed
< 1271447939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't had time to investigate much more yet
< 1271447943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you /sure/? compiler bugs are rare
< 1271447953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the compiler
< 1271447955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is a regression compared to previous versions
< 1271447956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be doing something that violates the C standard
< 1271447969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gcc has decided to implement an optimisation that takes advantage of the leeway you give it
< 1271447969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Is there a way to specify -O2 and -O3 and -Os for different parts of the same file? Also, does entering a label name cause a optimization break at that point?
< 1271447972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it breaks some {} test in mycology
< 1271447974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing happens all the time
< 1271447974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've found many LLVM and DMD bugs whilst developing CCBI :-P
< 1271447994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And GHC bugs whilst developing other stuff, etc
< 1271448000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -O3 will break things that rely on even minor chunks of undefined behavior. :)
< 1271448000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: for the same file, not as far as I know, but there might be (probably some attribute); labels shouldn't cause any difference, loops are turned into gotos pretty early in optimisation anyway in gcc
< 1271448011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days, more often than not, if I can't figure out why something's wrong within ten minutes, it's a compiler bug
< 1271448022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, icc and clang works fine. But indeed further investigation needed. Which happens to be a PITA. It isn't like that ICE I got when trying the new link time optimisation stuff
< 1271448023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm pretty sure that Cfunge's odder things actually *are* compiler stress tests.
< 1271448035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which *is* a compiler bug by all definitions
< 1271448057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Anyway, this is how that program is supposed to look:
< 1271448058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v.<
< 1271448058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:|
< 1271448058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  @
< 1271448073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you should mail cpressy about it
< 1271448079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, that makes a lot more sense
< 1271448089 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, I would like to be able to force optimization breaks in optimized C programs, and retune optimizations for each individual parts of codes in some cases too. I think putting a label name somewhere should force an optimization break at that point even if that label is never refereced
< 1271448102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and someone tell alise about mkry if he hasn't already been told (tell him to read logs)
< 1271448111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did
< 1271448111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still has him on /ignore

< 1271448115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *she; *her
< 1271448117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(alise that is)
< 1271448141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually quite ironic considering her situation.
< 1271448146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm amused that you respond to someone's claim to be /ignoring you by nickpinging them; it seems a little redundant
< 1271448170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't really care, since he spends all his time when I'm here talking about how I'm ignored.
< 1271448205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, either that exits right away or it loops forever? I can't remember which way goes which on | (only on _)
< 1271448213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could try __asm volatile ("" : : : "memory");
< 1271448233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "This program makes duplicates of each value on the stacked, which is checked, and if non-zero, printed."
< 1271448247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some random mailing list I found on the Internet, that basically causes everything to be dumped to memory and reloaded from it at that point so that your (nonexistent) asm statement can run
< 1271448252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah. so it isn't the complete program?
< 1271448253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be pretty good at disrupting optimisation
< 1271448261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thanks for that, perhaps it could work
< 1271448278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, this is completely untested from my point of view
< 1271448279 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There is no "the" program, that's the snippet that's talking about
< 1271448312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: __attribute__((optimize("Ofoo"))
< 1271448313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Is there a way to specify -O2 and -O3 and -Os for different parts of the same file? Also, does entering a label name cause a optimization break at that point? <-- yes per function using __attribute__ in recent gcc versions
< 1271448317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function attribute.
< 1271448320 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It calls it a program that duplicates each value on the stack"ed"; at the beginning of all programs the stack is empty so presumably it's meant as a subroutine (or just a concept; if there were values on the stack this is what it would do)
< 1271448320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both ifs go the "same" way in the sense of the sign of the coordinate in question.
< 1271448325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only works on GCC 4.4 and higher.
< 1271448326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, we've managed to answer both his questions between us?
< 1271448328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thanks for that too
< 1271448335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How goes your -98
< 1271448342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No work on it.
< 1271448348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1271448348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I forgot what exact __attribute__, I refer you to the gcc documentation on that
< 1271448353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-)
< 1271448363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or to pikhq, who answered the question just before you did
< 1271448364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the man page iirc
< 1271448367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather the website docs
< 1271448374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the info page, unsure
< 1271448387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the exact name of the attribute (__attribute__((optimize("O3")) or whatever, for reference)
< 1271448387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no one uses info except for emacs built in help system
< 1271448393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah
< 1271448398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OK I can see the documentation
< 1271448399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use info
< 1271448405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from inside emacs?
< 1271448412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the gcc info page, but not many others.
< 1271448415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if I'm there at the time, but more usually standalone
< 1271448421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With pinfo, actually.
< 1271448425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gcc online docs rather than touching info
< 1271448430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well pinfo is kind of ok
< 1271448430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the hate on info?
< 1271448441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty good, pretty much like w3m, which I normally use for HTML docs
< 1271448449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1271448459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use w3m-mode in emacs quite often
< 1271448461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still
< 1271448475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much of the hate is due to the default viewer
< 1271448480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1271448481 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use gcc online docs too, but only because I am on Windows. On Linux I would use the ones included in the system, because Linux has those but Windows doesn't
< 1271448483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but I like the default viewer!
< 1271448489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though pinfo isn't too good either
< 1271448495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does yelp do info?
< 1271448512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example pinfo can't do i-search using ctrl-s
< 1271448514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sometimes you have to request docs specially, e.g. install gcc-doc as well as gcc
< 1271448515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like info can
< 1271448535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OK now I understand. But that still doesn't apply on Windows
< 1271448537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info is quite a strange mix of emacs and vi(m) key bindings
< 1271448543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, noticed that?
< 1271448553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sometimes use Linux, when I am doing work at FreeGeek
< 1271448557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for example / to search and ctrl-s to search
< 1271448558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really; you have to remember I play NetHack
< 1271448586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about it? nethack doesn't use emacs key bindings at all IMO?
< 1271448592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd imagine it's more consistent if you use Emacs' info reader.
< 1271448600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes it is
< 1271448622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /all/ NetHack's keybindings are in nethack-el though
< 1271448639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, both vi bindings and emacs bindings are relatively familiar by now
< 1271448649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, the hjkl movement; actual vi editing, I'm rather bad with
< 1271448670 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's impossible to change direction while in stringmode, I guess
< 1271448674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like many things in vi
< 1271448704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: /all/ NetHack's keybindings are in nethack-el though <-- well, I never tried nethack-el
< 1271448705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes
< 1271448705 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some vi (such as vim) you can do cursor movement in insert mode (and also delete, pageup/down) by pushing the arrow keys (and pageup/pagedown/etc)
< 1271448717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not as good as regular NetHack, I don't think
< 1271448723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hjkl is quite confusing. Numpad ftw
< 1271448730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is why I never play nethack on my laptop
< 1271448732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how dare you say that!
< 1271448749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjklyubn saves you from having to move your hands all the time, it's really convenient
< 1271448752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, it is possible to wrap while in string mode
< 1271448770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in numpad mode, how do you open doors? or look at things? or use stairs?
< 1271448771 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some games I made supports many movement key such as hjkl/yubn/arrows/numpad/etc. Like, 100LEVEL game support vi keys or numpad
< 1271448785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have two hands?
< 1271448794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and sometimes yes you have to move
< 1271448799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also nethack-qt
< 1271448803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you can't cover the entirety of the main part of the keyboard with one hand
< 1271448804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because I know this will annoy you
< 1271448813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in ADOM, I use numpad + for upstairs and numpad enter for downstairs, 0 to open door, * to pickup, - to swap positions
< 1271448821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nethack-qt would be one of the better tiles interfaces if it didn't have horrifically broken font rendering
< 1271448825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And . to search
< 1271448827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agreed.
< 1271448827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the sdl interface is awful
< 1271448832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sdl interface is better
< 1271448835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a weird typo
< 1271448840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah
< 1271448849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't know there was an sdl one
< 1271448863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it is <> for up/down in nethack
< 1271448885 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know that
< 1271448890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1271448898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ascended any time?
< 1271448905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the same in Rogue and in ADOM as well. I have never won NetHack.
< 1271448907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was about to ask the same question
< 1271448910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1271448917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to me or zzo38?
< 1271448921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along the lines of "zzo38: which roguelikes have you won"
< 1271448926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1271448926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may as well ask you now the subject's come up, though
< 1271448928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have won ADOM however
< 1271448934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've ascended NetHack 5 times, never won any other roguelike)
< 1271448953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "KING"
< 1271448959 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not NetHack or Rogue
< 1271448970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nethack: 2x val, 1x sam 1x wiz. No time on NAO due to horrible lag to it. Slash'EM: 3x val
< 1271448989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/no time/none/
< 1271448995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get NetHack to compile on my computer though
< 1271448996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(modulo case)
< 1271449004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh yes that can be tricky
< 1271449013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I refuse to play nethack without the menu colour patch
< 1271449031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nao has it)
< 1271449032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't win KING on the hardest difficulty level though
< 1271449040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard about king
< 1271449041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won ADOM with Drakeling Fighter character
< 1271449049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never tried adom
< 1271449068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what do you think about that list? :)
< 1271449073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://roguebasin.roguelikedevelopment.org/index.php?title=KING
< 1271449085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 4x val, 1x wiz, so pretty similar to mine
< 1271449095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, val is simplest most certainly
< 1271449108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy playing valks
< 1271449118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiz was mostly to prove I could ascend something else, and then go back to valks
< 1271449147 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1271449156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes they have a less hard time on low levels most certainly
< 1271449181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlygame isn't that bad as a wizard
< 1271449196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I suggest you do tou or bar next
< 1271449207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on tou I managed the quest once at least
< 1271449209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar has a stupid quest
< 1271449216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is just like valk, but worse
< 1271449222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never got that far with bar (rhyme unintentional)
< 1271449276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I still think tou should have a luggage, possibly only in wizmode though
< 1271449279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have won at Alan's Psychedelic Journey, too
< 1271449288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it would be extremely unbalanced
< 1271449300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink*
< 1271449309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting name of a game
< 1271449310 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should probably make his Befunge-93 interpreter in such a way that it will be relatively easy to make it interpret -98

< 1271449328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: The trick is to allow for sparse Fungespace.
< 1271449331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: the two langs are different enough that starting again is a common choice to implement -98 for -93 implementers
< 1271449351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, the trick is to allow you to rip out and replace funge space and stacks without too much pain
< 1271449367 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, first thing I thought of. Interface to the space should look the same in both, just implementation changes
< 1271449372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both cfunge and efunge started as 93-subset then went to larger
< 1271449377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to replace stacks unless you're going to implement MODE
< 1271449387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need to replace them with stack stacks
< 1271449401 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would think Deewiant would know that

< 1271449402 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not ever won at 100LEVEL though, even at the easiest difficulty level I cannot make more than 750 points
< 1271449404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a stack of whatever stacks you had
< 1271449404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 98-Fungespace is hard to do efficiently.\
< 1271449414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need to change your previous stacks
< 1271449419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what datastructure I'd *like* to use.
< 1271449426 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, list of tuples?
< 1271449433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, You need to change code using it to use the stack stacks though
< 1271449444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I could compile NetHack perhaps I would fix some things
< 1271449446 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first number x, second is y, ...
< 1271449448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't necessarily even need to do that
< 1271449449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it won't compile
< 1271449452 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actualy, that's not that efficient
< 1271449457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "fix"?
< 1271449462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That's *horribly* inefficient. :)
< 1271449471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I followed the instructions but it still won't compile
< 1271449475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make your previous stack be something that gives the top of the stack stack
< 1271449482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is that on linux or windows?
< 1271449486 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, fix some things how I wanted it, possibly change the name a bit for that purpose
< 1271449490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if on windows: give up, it is pointless
< 1271449491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MinGW
< 1271449503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says I can do it on MinGW but it doesn't work
< 1271449507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well there are windows binaries
< 1271449510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why not use them?
< 1271449513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've compiled NetHack on Windows before, but I used cygwin
< 1271449515 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there are windows binaries
< 1271449518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and built a UNIX build, not a Windows build
< 1271449526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I want to be able to compile the current ray of execution into a single array of threaded code, and cache this. That'd be fairly simple to do if it weren't for the darned non-cardinal IP deltas)
< 1271449533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a cygwin one? Or cross compiled to linux?
< 1271449535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But binaries aren't source codes
< 1271449536 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has no clue how to make a funge editor

< 1271449539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch that sounds horrible
< 1271449543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a cygwin one
< 1271449544 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably if you're building on cygwin you're not building on Windows
< 1271449545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross compiling from cygwin to linux
< 1271449548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just awful
< 1271449563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The ray will change often enough that I don't think that's worthwhile
< 1271449564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I crosscompile to Linux from a Windows system, when I have a perfectly good Linux system to compile from?
< 1271449575 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, 32-bit integers for -98, right? I can just say it's UTF-32
< 1271449576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it still compiles to dlls instead of *.so and *.exe in the PE format and so on
< 1271449579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Note, "caching".
< 1271449592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caching a couple of recent rays will probably work, yes
< 1271449592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to add some additional modes, remove race/class combination restriction, add some more classes, and add feature to type in the name of any kind of creature in the game to make your character as that kind
< 1271449593 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no, UTF-32 is unsigned, hm
< 1271449594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that in theory it could often just pull the threaded code out of cache.
< 1271449632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Unspecified, but fungespace cells must be the same size as stack cells.
< 1271449634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you need to handle writes to funge space correctly
< 1271449639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only from p but from other ones too
< 1271449640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1271449647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as s and various fingerprints
< 1271449667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously modification of the funge space would invalidate at least parts of the cache.
< 1271449678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you can't read mycology if you want input files to be in UTF-32
< 1271449681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1271449685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to convert it first
< 1271449687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Hey, I've got an idea. 8-bit Funge-98. :P
< 1271449695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, forbidden by spec
< 1271449697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In one year, FreeGeek will give me another computer and I will install Linux From Scratch on that one (it comes with Ubuntu but we can change the installation)
< 1271449698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least 32 bits
< 1271449700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the spec
< 1271449702 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, hm, what does Mycology do, exactly?
< 1271449715 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that it's not UTF-32
< 1271449721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, test suite for befunge-98 (and 93 too. but the 98 part is *much* larger)
< 1271449724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aaaaaw.
< 1271449735 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I knew that
< 1271449737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, it is useful to find bugs. In fact it is crucial for it
< 1271449745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you asked me what it did
< 1271449749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answered
< 1271449754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no, it's not forbidden by the Funge-98 spec.
< 1271449757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not UTF-32 in that it uses one byte, not four bytes, for each ASCII char :-P
< 1271449765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed
< 1271449766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you didn't
< 1271449769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what I said
< 1271449770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It states that 32 bits is *typical*.
< 1271449775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it tests various operations and fingerprints and checks they return the correct results
< 1271449797 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thanks for answering what I meant to ask
< 1271449801 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps everyone else

< 1271449804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch!
< 1271449824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: But, isn't that pretty much a given for just about every text file
< 1271449832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you could have stated your question more clearly
< 1271449834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I'm not sure what you wanted to ask
< 1271449845 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, it is
< 1271449867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm... "If the underlying memory mechanism cannot provide this (e.g. no more memory is available to be allocated,) the interpreter should complain with an error and do what it can to recover, (but not necessarily gracefully). "
< 1271449872 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be easy to read it as UTF-8 and operate internally as UTF-16
< 1271449883 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not UTF-16, due to the sign issue
< 1271449887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, you don't have to reflect for everything
< 1271449893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, would that be true for abort() or segfault? they are errors, and it failed to recover
< 1271449894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1271449903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would
< 1271449906 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that can be mapped to unicode code points would be nice, though
< 1271449922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but continuing with buggy behaviour and no OOM message would not be?
< 1271449937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Should" is not "must"
< 1271449940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Windows have a SIGPIPE signal?
< 1271449942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes
< 1271449957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm pretty sure it doesn't
< 1271449969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's what I thought
< 1271449977 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stll does not know how to make a funge editor

< 1271449980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, "16 bit and 8 bit versions are discussed as separate variations on Funge-98."
< 1271449989 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is it wrong to call Befunge-93 a funge?
< 1271449998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, plus you can't do any of the existing fingerprints with less than 32 bits
< 1271450000 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And call my app AndFunge-93
< 1271450000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Still not forbidden.
< 1271450011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, sometimes MinGW takes up 100% CPU even when the window is closed and stuff, so I assumed that is because Windows doesn't have a SIGPIPE signal
< 1271450017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not very useful if you want any fingerprints.
< 1271450018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: "funge" itself is a very general term
< 1271450022 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1271450023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Funge" is more specific, "Funge-98" more so
< 1271450031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's "fungeoid" which is more general still
< 1271450036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh and you couldn't fit mycology in 127x127 cells
< 1271450038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1271450045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is what you get from positive
< 1271450057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would be bloody useless. :)
< 1271450067 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy to implement though.
< 1271450073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes anything less than 32 bits is bloody useless
< 1271450073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if Mycology would accept a 16-bit funge
< 1271450074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to do that then.
< 1271450081 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's 1y?
< 1271450088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some flags
< 1271450092 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1271450093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1271450101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: y is crazy
< 1271450102 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271450108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1 cell containing flags (env). " in http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/website_funge98.html
< 1271450109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1y2% is whether the interpreter is concurrent, IIRC
< 1271450111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a dump of all the info about the interpreter and program state
< 1271450118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a version with readable font and bg colours
< 1271450119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it
< 1271450120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can ask for just one entry, rather than all of it
< 1271450122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16-bit *maybe*. Though it would require *pretty much* the same work as a 32-bit Funge.
< 1271450128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes here: http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html
< 1271450131 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(16-bit Fungespace is 4 gigs?)
< 1271450131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is more readable
< 1271450158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 2^16 * 2^16 * (2 bytes)
< 1271450160 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Mycology for Unefunge-98 and um, the 3d one?
< 1271450166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1271450169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Trefunge)
< 1271450169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ah, right.
< 1271450179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, you don't ask for an entry, you ask for a cell. So if something takes two cells or varying number of cells you have to take care of that
< 1271450194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and cfunge will probably get faster y-as-pick soon
< 1271450207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 gigs.
< 1271450209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, something that can't be done without a huge PITA if you implement EVAR
< 1271450230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that "huge PITA"
< 1271450232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is *almost* feasible as a single array on modern computers.
< 1271450259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is feasible
< 1271450261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that the size of env vars isn't constant and you just can't add/substract easily, remember that you might be changing an existing one
< 1271450267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But pricy.
< 1271450268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most people's machines can't handle it
< 1271450274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's feasible yes but a huga PITA)
< 1271450284 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 8 gigs myself but that's not quite enough
< 1271450285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 32-bit Fungespace? That must be sparse.
< 1271450287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Must* be.
< 1271450295 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolute Vector sounds.. interesting
< 1271450302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not exactly, not on >64 bit machines
< 1271450311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that much memory
< 1271450315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is infeasible yes
< 1271450319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can just recalculate the size when EVAR changes them
< 1271450332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true. still a PITA
< 1271450354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't have exabytes of RAM handy.
< 1271450355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and you can't optimise pushing env vars into a memcpy() :P
< 1271450355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not IMO... you have to calculate it when y is called anyway
< 1271450360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure I can
< 1271450363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1271450365 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have
< 1271450385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? EVAR should mess it up?
< 1271450401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just recalculate the env vars in y after EVAR
< 1271450406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. Holy fuck.
< 1271450408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a problem
< 1271450418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit Fungespace is larger than 64-bit addressing.
< 1271450424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1271450435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh?
< 1271450439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have other question, do you know in Darwin/Mac OS X what the apple vector contains (other than apple[0] being the path of the program)?
< 1271450442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^32 * 2^32 * 4
< 1271450447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah
< 1271450447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>= 2^64
< 1271450450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot that *4
< 1271450452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_-
< 1271450458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 64-bit addressing *bytes* is larger than 32+32 bit addressing *words*. :)
< 1271450465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what apple[1] does (if anything)?
< 1271450478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. Just make it use 32 bit words with a byte index
< 1271450489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your new computer design
< 1271450546 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-103-0.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271450565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway you need a small amount of memory too for the program running it, unless you implement that in hardware
< 1271450587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hide the program in some random place nobody will use anyway
< 1271450592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid idea, then. 32-bit Fungespace with smaller-than-32-bit memory, so I can say "fuck sparse datastructures"
< 1271450594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD
< 1271450594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Which apple vector?
< 1271450597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like at (-2^23,2^19)
< 1271450607 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The fourth parameter to main
< 1271450614 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char**apple
< 1271450616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is wrong with sparse data structures?
< 1271450631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowness, I imagine
< 1271450632 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They're more work than array[foo][bar]!
< 1271450634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No clue. Have you got the manual pages?
< 1271450640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they are more slow to index.
< 1271450642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, nontriviality :-P
< 1271450655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? main() takes 4 parameters on OS X?
< 1271450657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wth
< 1271450660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf*
< 1271450662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf*
< 1271450666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five on Windows, doesn't it?
< 1271450666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah
< 1271450671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh?
< 1271450674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: main() takes 3 on normal UNIX.
< 1271450679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know
< 1271450685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and I consider that pretty wtf too
< 1271450686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on Linux there's another "parameter" after envp.
< 1271450695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh? and what one is that?
< 1271450702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF option vector.
< 1271450706 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Mac OS X so I don't know. But I know that I think the apple[0] is useful
< 1271450709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's after the terminating NULL of envp.
< 1271450709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does it contain?
< 1271450718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1271450722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that isn't a parameter then
< 1271450731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the scare quotes.
< 1271450735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1271450741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, what does it do, specifically?
< 1271450742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious
< 1271450743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does the ELF options contain?
< 1271450751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and after the NULL of envp is a pretty stealthy place to hide data)
< 1271450759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed
< 1271450766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: name of the progam is just argv[0], sort of
< 1271450768 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the ELF option vector do?
< 1271450772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of this before btw
< 1271450788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Five on Windows? What would the extras be?
< 1271450788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains a few different things... The one that I *remember* is that it contains the prelinking data for the dynamic linker.
< 1271450804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh
< 1271450804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they're completely different from the standard ones
< 1271450810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and contain things like window handles, etc
< 1271450823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you talking about WinMain now
< 1271450823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, argv[0] only contains the name of the program as it is typed, which does not even necessarily have to be the actual name of the file at all, and won't necessarily contain path information. apple[0] contains the real path of the program (although it can be a relative path)
< 1271450831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the ordinary main() doesn't receive that stuff?
< 1271450835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's four, not five
< 1271450842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's just called WinMain by convention, it's still the main entry point
< 1271450843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WinMain takes four
< 1271450848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't call it main to avoid scaring people
< 1271450849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes
< 1271450856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, eh?
< 1271450857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can still have a C main that takes the ordinary two
< 1271450860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder why I thought it was 5?
< 1271450867 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're separate things
< 1271450867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, where is that option vector documented?
< 1271450881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Somewhere *deep* in kernel documentation.
< 1271450905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking for it

< 1271450907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nCmdShow is a really stupid idea AFAICT
< 1271450918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can sort-of see the reason for it, but sort-of feel that it should have been handled really differently
< 1271450935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort-of sort-of :-P
< 1271450936 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Seems I have the wrong name...
< 1271450938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, isn't meant for normal user space then?
< 1271450947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also no window handles in WinMain; the app doesn't have any windows at that point. Just application instance handles.
< 1271450954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is nCmdShow?
< 1271450959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's handled by the dynamic linker.
< 1271450964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, right
< 1271450965 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So -98 is not entirely backwards compatible with -93
< 1271450966 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(
< 1271450975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, very inefficient then, having to scan for the NULL there
< 1271450978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Oh, right*.
< 1271450978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The differences are small
< 1271450982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh?
< 1271450994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the Linux entry gate in there.
< 1271451005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what is the linux entry gate?
< 1271451019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Mostly just SGML-spaces
< 1271451022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-gate.so
< 1271451022 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you need for infinite wrapping
< 1271451038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://refspecs.freestandards.org/LSB_1.3.0/IA64/spec/auxiliaryvector.html
< 1271451040 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the spec.
< 1271451056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, pseudo one. And that is in /proc/pid/maps as [vdso]
< 1271451058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc
< 1271451065 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lols at 0"gnirts"

< 1271451068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes.
< 1271451070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, why?
< 1271451076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to say out loud
< 1271451077 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it's just strange, that's all
< 1271451080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The location of it is passed in the auxiliary vector.
< 1271451096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it? I done that I didn't find it funny
< 1271451098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unusual yes
< 1271451101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not funny
< 1271451108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, x86_64 also has [vsyscall]
< 1271451113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite a mess
< 1271451113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's only after envp because start shoves it there.
< 1271451135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah
< 1271451135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "what sort of window to create" makes a load of baseless assumptions
< 1271451143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, how should the GIMP react to that, for instance?
< 1271451143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arguments to main do not exist until start makes them)
< 1271451160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: "what sort of window to create" makes a load of baseless assumptions <-- is that in reply to nCmdShow?
< 1271451171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1271451179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, conversation mixup
< 1271451190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens when you try to keep all your IRC conversations in memory simultaneously
< 1271451235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just quote the thing it is in reply to
< 1271451242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some key word
< 1271451250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just mentioning nCmdShow there would have worked
< 1271451297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, AnMaster: Maybe use some sort of conversation-indication [tags] in every message.
< 1271451319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, we tried to implement that when freenode was having huge lag some months ago
< 1271451330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(didn't work out well because ais523 refused to do it properly)
< 1271451346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like people do [PATCH] on mailing lists and so on.
< 1271451359 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the { definition, what is meant by "storage offset"?
< 1271451360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AnMaster tried to unilaterally implement a SYN-ACK-like numering scheme for IRC comments
< 1271451373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was completely impractical as far as I could tell
< 1271451380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was suggeting UUIDs in the form of  where even was one person and odd was the other person
< 1271451382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It affects g and p among others
< 1271451387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to refer to a specific message you would use that
< 1271451398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think I did SYN ACK ...
< 1271451418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes TCP sequence number I guess is similar
< 1271451427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know enough about that to be sure
< 1271451500 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I guess I could do something like #v{
< 1271451516 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To test if I have enough memory, and if I don't, go down the v path?
< 1271451516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, for what?
< 1271451522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_, well sure
< 1271451522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1271451539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYN ACK could work during massive lag
< 1271451543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#vX is common idiom for any reflecting X.
< 1271451557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#^X too
< 1271451560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or
< 1271451561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#
< 1271451562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>
< 1271451562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X
< 1271451566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give the number that you think your message should be (in your own personal numbering scheme), and the first number you haven't seen from the other person (in their numbering scheme)
< 1271451568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or same but <
< 1271451580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can give a third number if you like, the number of the message you're actually replying to)
< 1271451585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#_X is a bit rarer
< 1271451595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes
< 1271451612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh
< 1271451620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, retransmit if you see someone claim they haven't seen something you've already said
< 1271451621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that depends on what else is on the stack
< 1271451628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this can lead to false positives, but not false negatives I think
< 1271451647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if it reflects due to being unimplemented... such as t
< 1271451660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then any value will be left
< 1271451673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do ]X when going upwards, but I haven't seen that done often, even if it's quite compact.
< 1271451686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, false negative what?
< 1271451695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thinking you didn't need to retransmit when actually you did
< 1271451699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I do something like that a few times in Mycology
< 1271451699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about ># X
< 1271451705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you have error handling to the left
< 1271451716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the normal path enters from above or below the >
< 1271451729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's fairly common as well
< 1271451739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;X is similar
< 1271451743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ;#;X...
< 1271451755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;#;X is a bit pointless
< 1271451756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not quite as common as #^X though (plus the variants)
< 1271451763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fairly equivalent to plain X
< 1271451777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're hitting the # vertically for some other reason
< 1271451788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: btw, does mycology test a single ; on a line anywhere?
< 1271451790 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "fairly"
< 1271451793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need something like: #;#;X for that to be of any interest, and even then it isn't of much intereste
< 1271451797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it allowed for a stream device in Linux to be executed as a program?
< 1271451805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it explicitly tries a single one
< 1271451807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, Deewiant-speed strikes again. And I did mean the ...;...#;X case, just abbreviated.
< 1271451809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is a stream device?
< 1271451824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#"X is an alternative to #;X when you're out of ;-room
< 1271451825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't know; there's no technical reason why it couldn't be given how ELF works, but people might have decided that it's just too insane
< 1271451826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that would work
< 1271451830 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-room?
< 1271451836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A character device, maybe?
< 1271451837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err...  :P
< 1271451840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something keyboard-like, like stdin or the read end of a fifo
< 1271451851 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're already using ; to cross over that code you can't put ; in it
< 1271451856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it'll mess up the outer ;
< 1271451857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not something like /dev/ttyS1?
< 1271451859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you use " instead
< 1271451866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if " is also used, you're screwed
< 1271451870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know
< 1271451875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a character device, but I think they all work stream-like anyway
< 1271451879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use any of the other variants
< 1271451881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are more
< 1271451889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "stream device" is a defined term, but I have an idea of what it means anyway
< 1271451891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /think/ I've used exactly #"X in Mycology anywhere
< 1271451892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well unlike a block device yes
< 1271451899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you can still use x to jump over code, though
< 1271451901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have used " in lieu of ; a number of times
< 1271451911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does that command work  dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb
< 1271451913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: x takes more space
< 1271451922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you have to push the arguments
< 1271451930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, you can use x (or j)
< 1271451932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: don't try it; it'd overwrite one of your disks with zeros, quite possibly your hard disk
< 1271451938 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g and p should really be before the {} stuff.. the {} stuff talks about the storage vector
< 1271451949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and normally you specify a number of bytes to overwrite, and things like block sizes
< 1271451950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they should
< 1271451959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as they're much more commonly used
< 1271451970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to blank a disk like dd but they told me to use mkfs.msdos instead so it will be formatted. But, when I put the disk in the other computer it wouldn't work anyways so I had to format it anyways
< 1271452013 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION isn't sure how well the File I/O stuff could be made to work on Android

< 1271452033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a "cannot create directory entry" error when I tried to use the disk on a DOS computer, so I had to reformat it again anyways.
< 1271452063 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: File I/O is optional
< 1271452106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't especially care about every single byte being zeroes, wiping just the beginning of the disk is usually enough to make it look empty. dd'ing a terabyte of zeroes is not very fast.
< 1271452132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's reasonably fast
< 1271452147 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a floppy disk, it would be slow of course
< 1271452161 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But using mkfs was faster than the format command in DOS/Windows
< 1271452281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. The format command 0-fills the drive.
< 1271452296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for the filesystem data structures)
< 1271452305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the /Q flag though.
< 1271452340 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using /Q does make it more fast
< 1271452341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does.
< 1271452348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /Q like the mkfs command in Linux does?
< 1271452402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mkfs.msdos?
< 1271452408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will just add a new FAT file system on it
< 1271452418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and who wants a FAT one anyway :/
< 1271452434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is the diff between mkfs.vfat and mkfs.msdos? I have no idea
< 1271452441 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98 fingerprints remind me of PSOX
< 1271452467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX reminds me of Funge-98 fingerprints
< 1271452468 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think PSOX stole handprints from Funge-98
< 1271452468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you don't especially care about every single byte being zeroes, wiping just the beginning of the disk is usually enough to make it look empty. dd'ing a terabyte of zeroes is not very fast. <-- you should dd from your hardware rng instead ;P
< 1271452485 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not fingerprints though)
< 1271452495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, /dev/sdb is _not_ a floppy unless you have some crazy usb floppy device
< 1271452505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, /dev/fd0 is probably your floppy device
< 1271452518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that you may want to low level format in some cases
< 1271452544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdb's probably a USB disk
< 1271452550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Probably different default args, like with mkfs.ext2/3/4.
< 1271452552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, theoretically could be a hard disk
< 1271452554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is /Q like the mkfs command in Linux does? <-- probably.
< 1271452556 0 :|MigoMipo|!~MigoMipo@84-217-4-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271452557 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1271452570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for me it was a harddrive until some year ago or so
< 1271452576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I told you about that
< 1271452581 0 :|MigoMipo|!~MigoMipo@84-217-4-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271452582 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood
< 1271452582 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is a USB floppy drive
< 1271452603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you found it funny that I wasn't angry over lost data, instead I was angry over kernel panic due to swap being on that disk
< 1271452606 0 :|MigoMipo|!~MigoMipo@84-217-4-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271452610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I did have recent backups)
< 1271452610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IDE and SATA both go through libata now, which puts devices at /dev/sd*.
< 1271452634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is two computers I need to transfer files, one has a working floppy drive but no working USB or network, the other has USB but no floppy drive so that's why I bought the USB floppy drive and the disks from FreeGeek
< 1271452638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what pikhq said
< 1271452648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used hda for ages now
< 1271452654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been over a year by now?
< 1271452666 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an active Funge-98 Register somewhere?
< 1271452666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I connected the USB to this computer (WinXP), it appeared as drive B:
< 1271452671 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No
< 1271452689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, okay, well I have no idea if low level fdformat will work on the usb floppy
< 1271452692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: There may still be the one inactive one; can't remember the URL
< 1271452698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Your ages must be pretty short, if a year is several.
< 1271452699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's years old
< 1271452712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, also must be an old computer with no network or such
< 1271452731 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX doesn't require a central registry =P
< 1271452754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a while back I used mkfs.msdos on a USB stick and it seemed to work
< 1271452761 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1271452765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So, UUID then? :P
< 1271452766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after quadruple-checking to make sure I'd got the device it was on correct
< 1271452767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes quite. Age of early 2010 is now at an end and we are in the dawn of the age of early-mid 2010!
< 1271452776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: PSOX isn't extensible either (or is it?)
< 1271452776 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no. URIs
< 1271452777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, reformatting your swap partition while the system is running is amusin
< 1271452781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*amusing
< 1271452786 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is
< 1271452790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't mkfs notice? because it wasn't mounted?
< 1271452799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC, mkfs needs /two/ force options to reformat a drive while it's mounted)
< 1271452808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: So, URLs, UUIDs, ISBNs, etc. :)
< 1271452812 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, actually that other computer is Win98 and it is in a different building than this computer also. But it doesn't have network connection and the USB doesn't work (even though it has USB, but it doesn't work)
< 1271452820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would be terminal.
< 1271452820 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, similarly to Befunge, but since there's only one existant PSOX interpreter, it's easy to write extensions that will work on all existant PSOX interpreters
< 1271452833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but you mean it wasn't the correct device?
< 1271452835 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Weird; swap devices are mounted.
< 1271452848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, AnMaster used dd rather than mkfs
< 1271452852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why mkfs didn't notice
< 1271452855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, me? No?
< 1271452861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't overwritten swap
< 1271452867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the disk *died* that is what happened
< 1271452869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh
< 1271452872 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an optional PSOX registry that allows use of psox: URIs for identifiers
< 1271452873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you mean what I said above
< 1271452876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok
< 1271452893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it went *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk* *chulunk*  when I woke up
< 1271452893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving...
< 1271452901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so some sort of mechanical fault
< 1271452932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this was probably 1.5 years ago or so
< 1271452997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mke2fs also tries to check if the block device is just generally speaking in use (opened, possibly), not just whether it is mounted.
< 1271453006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the TRDS fingerprint?
< 1271453020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: See http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html
< 1271453036 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RCS?
< 1271453064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Riley Computer Software
< 1271453066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS is presumably what drove MKRY to suicide. Ouch, even /my/ barely-extant too-soon nerve fired there.
< 1271453075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should not have sent that line.
< 1271453093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it checks for in-use, and also checks for mounted
< 1271453111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit guys
< 1271453113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/
< 1271453114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The design
< 1271453114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: try imagining a cross between Prolog and Feather, then fail
< 1271453115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god the design
< 1271453120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But hey, new RC/Funge release, Deewiant.
< 1271453129 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abandon your eyes before clicking.
< 1271453132 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MKRY?
< 1271453147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Mike Riley, original author of RC/Funge
< 1271453151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# It looks like Mike was trying to implement a Funge-108 mode, but I could not find any documentation on it in the files that were given to me. If anybody has any information on Funge-108 I would be interested in hearing from you. ]]
< 1271453155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo # It looks like Mike was trying to implement a Funge-108 mode, but I could not find any documentation on it in the files that were given to me. If anybody has any information on Funge-108 I would be interested in hearing from you.
< 1271453155 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It looks like Mike was trying to implement a Funge-108 mode, but I could not find any documentation on it in the files that were given to me. If anybody has any information on Funge-108 I would be interest ...
< 1271453157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271453164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo AnMaster: ^. I'm so kind, even to assholes!
< 1271453164 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^. I'm so kind, even to assholes! AnMaster: ^. I'm so kind, even to assholes!
< 1271453169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, fungot abuse
< 1271453169 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: i use slatex tex2page, and then
< 1271453184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo http://www.rcfunge98.com/
< 1271453184 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/ http://www.rcfunge98.com/
< 1271453195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the double-echo
< 1271453204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It is a literal echo, echo, echo, echo...
< 1271453213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite
< 1271453220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ^echo ^echo ^echo
< 1271453220 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo ^echo ^echo ^echo ^echo ^echo
< 1271453228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^
< 1271453262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it isn't really distasteful per se to make reference to her suicide since it was personal choice.
< 1271453292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably just best to move on
< 1271453295 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyhow.
< 1271453301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1271453306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a shame, though.
< 1271453320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Mini-Funge was replaced by something more powerful in V2?
< 1271453331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of writing fingerprints in totally unrestricted Funge.
< 1271453342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you could implement the fingerprint-writer as a fingerprint itself.
< 1271453343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was?
< 1271453349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Mini-Funge has been scrapped and replaced with an all new dynamic fingerprint engine. Now fingerprints have the full power of the Rc/Funge VM at their fingertips. All commands are now available to fingerprints, including i, o, =, t, fingerprint loading and more.
< 1271453367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah
< 1271453379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still Mini-Funge, it just implements everything :-P
< 1271453382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay :P
< 1271453387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK anyway
< 1271453390 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't really looked into it
< 1271453419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm imagining some sort of fingerprint-defining fingerprint that has e.g. some opening/closing commands that take a fingerprint name, additional commands that take a string of funge source and a command name, etc.
< 1271453435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way, you could define fingerprints then use them in the same program; or define multiple fingerprints based on some computation, or even user input.
< 1271453451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" AnMaster: ^. I'm so kind, even to assholes! AnMaster: ^. I'm so kind, even to assholes!" <-- wth?
< 1271453452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i wanted a fnord vector type that would return an ' undefined variable' error... do you have
< 1271453455 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do good Funge editors look like?
< 1271453455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we have FING and FNGR; what's that? :-P
< 1271453456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could have a "fingerprint inclusion path" by basically loading a bunch of Funge files on startup.
< 1271453460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think that bot is broken
< 1271453461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: vim
< 1271453467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, I try and help AnMaster and he doesn't even look.
< 1271453473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or alise is using it to circumvent /ignore
< 1271453479 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Did you miss the line above
< 1271453480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo # It looks like Mike was trying to implement a Funge-108 mode, but I could not find any documentation on it in the files that were given to me. If anybody has any information on Funge-108 I would be interested in hearing from you.
< 1271453480 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# It looks like Mike was trying to implement a Funge-108 mode, but I could not find any documentation on it in the files that were given to me. If anybody has any information on Funge-108 I would be interest ...
< 1271453490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo If you had paid attention, I was trying to help you; remind me not to do so in future.
< 1271453490 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you had paid attention, I was trying to help you; remind me not to do so in future. If you had paid attention, I was trying to help you; remind me not to do so in future.
< 1271453519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-108 is dead. cpressy was working on a new one
< 1271453527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even have the files any more I think
< 1271453528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mail Susan
< 1271453529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo So tell Susan that.
< 1271453530 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So tell Susan that. So tell Susan that.
< 1271453546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot!*@* added to ignore list.
< 1271453547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack.
< 1271453560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect quote in context
< 1271453565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect.
< 1271453572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bravo, fungot. Bravo.
< 1271453573 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm off for a 5 minutes break, but there are also video lectures from 4a supposed to be a
< 1271453581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote   fungot!*@* added to ignore list.  AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack.
< 1271453581 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there is a way to deliver applications. :) i was hoping one ps would catch the other.
< 1271453586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SENTIENCE!
< 1271453586 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :152|  fungot!*@* added to ignore list.  AnMaster: i'd find that a bit annoying to wait for an ack.
< 1271453589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, XD
< 1271453601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, for future reference: Mention something relevant to AnMaster in the only way you can, to try and help him; then, AnMaster will get pissy and ignore the bot you used to do it.
< 1271453606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusion: Never help AnMaster. Ever.
< 1271453632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There's a couple of other echoy commands there.
< 1271453636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I suggest you go and write a Befunge-98 interpreter orders of magnitude faster than Cfunge then. :P
< 1271453637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^choo Tentacles
< 1271453638 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tentacles entacles ntacles tacles acles cles les es s
< 1271453648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^dump choo
< 1271453650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1271453651 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1271453651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Deewiant already did that, in C. Asztal, in C++.
< 1271453654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI 2, Stinkhorn.
< 1271453655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show choo
< 1271453655 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]+32[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>]
< 1271453659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway if you would please make fungot ignore alise/ehird or tell him not to use the bot for /ignore circumvention
< 1271453659 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have access to any java library imaginable. normally i never eat.
< 1271453660 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: s/C/D/
< 1271453668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^cho also this
< 1271453668 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also thislso thisso thiso this thisthishisiss
< 1271453669 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, would it be too painful to ask hypothetical Funge programmers on Android to use the trackball? Are there Android phones that don't have trackball or trackpad?
< 1271453675 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster is upset because emailing is work, and I gave him reason to email somebody.
< 1271453677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, cfunge not Cfunge :P
< 1271453680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Er, of course.
< 1271453684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm.
< 1271453685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quick, keep spelling it Cfunge!
< 1271453693 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reverb and reverberation
< 1271453693 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aanndd  rreevveerrbbeerraattiioonn
< 1271453696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what; I'll tell Susan
< 1271453701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He refuses to use the correct pronouns for my nick, so there is no reason to use the correct capitalisation for his interpreter.
< 1271453715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't have her mail so I couldn't tell her anyway. *shrug*
< 1271453717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: they all have some sort of ball i think
< 1271453724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok
< 1271453727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any questions, comments, or general criticims, I may be contacted at:
< 1271453727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :   rcfunge98  hotmail  com
< 1271453733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night all
< 1271453736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo If you have any questions, comments, or general criticims, I may be contacted at:   rcfunge98  hotmail  com
< 1271453736 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have any questions, comments, or general criticims, I may be contacted at:   rcfunge98  hotmail  com If you have any questions, comments, or general criticims, I may be contacted at:   rcfung ...
< 1271453738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully that annoys me some more.
< 1271453744 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think that if someone types, say, v, and keeps typing, it should start going downwards
< 1271453748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she(?) should probably know, and I pretty much know the situation with Befunge-108
< 1271453759 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better yet, buttons to change the direction of typing
< 1271453773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cpressy was working on befunge-111 or whatever he called it
< 1271453774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: she doesn't read here, though
< 1271453778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the draft is incomplete
< 1271453784 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Befunge-108
< 1271453785 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1271453791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://catseye.tc/lab/Befunge-111-Specification-DRAFT.txt
< 1271453792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: AnMaster's idiotic folly
< 1271453792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night
< 1271453793 0 :fungotCCBI!~fungot@cs78149022.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271453803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, brrrrn.
< 1271453808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, it's still called fungot
< 1271453808 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you want more? and some other oddities, like emacs/ xemacs on windows...
< 1271453812 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well
< 1271453818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What should it be called?
< 1271453828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungotCCBI: Hiya!
< 1271453829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was intending it as an optional ignore-workarounder
< 1271453829 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i have concluded that, despite scheme's beauty in 5 minutes, and hackedly.
< 1271453837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiangot!
< 1271453847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Doesn't have the chat model stuff that only fizzie has
< 1271453854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ah.
< 1271453891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's in my git. I mean, the tools, not the models; but irc logs are public too. Maybe a matter of fiddling, though.
< 1271453907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, I meant the models
< 1271453968 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably have the keyboard contain mostly the commands
< 1271453982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly if you retrained it from the public logs, it wouldn't speak Finnish every now and then.
< 1271453983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does it have a non-echoy ^echo?
< 1271453987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should I define one?
< 1271453988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's the same code :-P
< 1271453995 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What prefix?
< 1271453997 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]
< 1271454011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You can just use ^ul (whatever)S
< 1271454013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]echo test
< 1271454016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, still.
< 1271454017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]help
< 1271454024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if I can remember the command-writing stuff.
< 1271454024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help
< 1271454025 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
< 1271454028 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. :-)
< 1271454029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't have fizzie's state file
< 1271454037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it can't do much.
< 1271454046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is faster, bf or ul?
< 1271454050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's like you, only newborn.
< 1271454051 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: me and mooz both bought the collected fnord thing from stockholm... umm, svn, i want to
< 1271454058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't
< 1271454058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, this is AnMaster we're talking about; speed /matters/
< 1271454067 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, ul can't take input of course
< 1271454068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]def oi bf ,[.,]
< 1271454069 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined.
< 1271454071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ul thing doesn't do in..
< 1271454075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]oi oi! oi! oi!
< 1271454075 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi! oi! oi!
< 1271454076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1271454083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]oi AnMaster.
< 1271454083 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster.
< 1271454087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Success.
< 1271454104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like said it's still ~fungot@*
< 1271454105 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ( that's because i got distracted by other projects they're working on it but i'll keep it in mind. :d sorry, usaian fnord popping up again.
< 1271454111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll be blocked by his ignore
< 1271454142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do a ]save though, I want to see if it works.
< 1271454151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh well.
< 1271454153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]save
< 1271454156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CAN DO IT LOL
< 1271454166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]save
< 1271454187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hnm, I think it should reply something.
< 1271454188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to have done anything AFAICT
< 1271454191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine BF would be faster than Underload on fungot
< 1271454191 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but he's been very successful, and there is no
< 1271454195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save
< 1271454201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm.
< 1271454204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it depends on how fast STRN is
< 1271454215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which can have more efficient programs written in it
< 1271454226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, we need to submit BF-written programs to the alioth shootout
< 1271454231 0 :fungotCFUN!~fungot@cs78149022.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271454245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]def oi bf ,[.,]
< 1271454245 0 :fungotCFUN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined.
< 1271454245 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined.
< 1271454247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, my hostmask is *again* wrong. I really should fix those reverses.
< 1271454247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]save
< 1271454248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! I can't annoy AnMaster with his own tool!
< 1271454249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I can.
< 1271454257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR is the best-practice fingerprint-mangling fingerprint, isn't it?
< 1271454258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one didn't do anything either.
< 1271454268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, FING.
< 1271454277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But FING is so tiny and FNGR so big.
< 1271454285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin'
< 1271454288 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271454291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jumpin' jumpin'
< 1271454317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I am myself again.
< 1271454321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^save
< 1271454322 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1271454370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]save
< 1271454370 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1271454376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mkdir data" for the win
< 1271454383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a fun benchmark: get fungot running on every Mycology-completing interp simultaneously in the channel on the same prefix
< 1271454383 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thats because you're still in boston, perth is the most common complaint i hear is the syntax for mark in an ant?
< 1271454387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it tries to write data/fungot.dat.
< 1271454387 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's what i was arguing against forth!!! i want a mapreduce cluster now for some reason.
< 1271454396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was just checking the filename.
< 1271454402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno why CFUN didn't do it, though. Maybe because CCBI opened it faster
< 1271454407 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How difficult could it be to write a Befunge-98 interp?
< 1271454412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then give them all a time-consuming command simultaneously and see how long it takes
< 1271454413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then it couldn't open it because it was already open, or something
< 1271454420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Famous last words... ;-)
< 1271454423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: have a look at all the interps which failed Mycology horribly
< 1271454431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it's annoying that there isn't a Befunge-98 instruction for "increase y delta, set x delta to 0"
< 1271454435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR IS THERE
< 1271454447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Quote from CCBI's page: "It took me over a year—a fair bit longer than I expected"
< 1271454460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And see there, fungot wants to be parallelized. Troubling signs of world-takeover.
< 1271454460 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sicp is hard though. my car radio sucks, so i have to get up
< 1271454461 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O
< 1271454463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I was writing Mycology at the same time, and reverse-engineering fingerprints etc.
< 1271454484 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (xxxx):*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:(a~a*~~^)(:^):^
< 1271454487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It was a minor pain just passing Mycology-93. :P
< 1271454487 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1271454499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm.
< 1271454502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more work to actually implement it correctly.
< 1271454503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1271454521 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OR IS THERE???
< 1271454536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Hmm.
< 1271454554 0 :fungotCFUN!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1271454559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1271454559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP audiobooks!
< 1271454561 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271454565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops
< 1271454567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-C'd wrong one
< 1271454572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So there isn't? Darn.
< 1271454591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: For increasing dy, yes; for setting dx to zero at the same time, don't think so
< 1271454596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess you can kind of do it, as long as you enter the block on column two:
< 1271454603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, no.
< 1271454606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking:
< 1271454611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfoo...>
< 1271454613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vbar...>
< 1271454617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that just goes down, down, downydown
< 1271454618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know
< 1271454623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's diagonal bottom-right?
< 1271454629 0 :fungotCFUN!~fungot@cs78149022.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271454631 0 :fungotCCBI!~fungot@cs78149022.pp.htv.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271454640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh eh eh?
< 1271454641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Diagonal bottom-right?
< 1271454646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in
< 1271454651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set the IP to start moving bottomly-rightwards
< 1271454654 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x
< 1271454655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :down-rightwards
< 1271454660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x is what AnMaster uses a lot. :p
< 1271454669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: AnMaster uses a lot howso? :P
< 1271454679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x at EOL and > in the beginning.
< 1271454698 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; I was thinking:
< 1271454700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x>...>
< 1271454701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x>...>
< 1271454701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen him do that and complained about the non-befungosity.
< 1271454712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matter of taste, I guess.
< 1271454717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a legitimate use-case, though; defining a bunch of fingerprint instructions.
< 1271454720 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is there a separate file for Befunge-93 only, if the 80x25 square of the beginning of main Mycology is Befunge-93?
< 1271454725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You kinda want them lined up.
< 1271454728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, incorrect. I used it in a few cases, mostly very linear test cases with no branches.
< 1271454732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no separate file for Befunge-93 only.
< 1271454734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and > in the beginning won't work
< 1271454744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need 11x> on each line
< 1271454745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it to work
< 1271454746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, proper Befunge code has no extraneous spaces, doesn't it?
< 1271454748 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's mycorand.bf then?
< 1271454749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean idiomatic :-)
< 1271454752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well not last and first obviously
< 1271454755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Read the readme.
< 1271454758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Extraneous?
< 1271454764 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your interpreter is Befunge-93 only, run mycorand.bf and examine the
< 1271454764 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :	  results.
< 1271454774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the instructions.
< 1271454775 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: As in, just to separate code up.
< 1271454784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: random
< 1271454786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: It doesn't say that's /all/ you should do.
< 1271454797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→
< 1271454804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just so happens that in Befunge-98 we can load files so you don't have to do it separately.
< 1271454814 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well yeah, that's up to you. :-P
< 1271454820 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if my Befunge-98 interpreter doesn't load files?
< 1271454828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should run it separately.
< 1271454836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably note that in the readme.
< 1271454843 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you should >.>
< 1271454861 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That section in the readme dates from before Mycology actually checked whether i and o are supported.
< 1271454864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You should make a webservice thingy for fungify.
< 1271454888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a webservice
< 1271454891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To thingify
< 1271454907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: mycorand.bf tests ?
< 1271454916 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1271454924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ?
< 1271454929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the "go in a random direction" operator.
< 1271454945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be bad style for a fingerprint to take a 0"gnirts" and then reverse it itself so that you can write it normal-forwards, wouldn't it?
< 1271455024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]ul (xxxx):*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:*:(a~a*~~^)(:^):^
< 1271455027 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1271455027 0 :fungotCFUN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time!
< 1271455035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yays.
< 1271455040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes or no? :P
< 1271455054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the question
< 1271455061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean so that you should write 0"string" instead?
< 1271455062 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% and / are only tested on 98? Why?
< 1271455078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah
< 1271455079 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they require user input in 93
< 1271455089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well yes, that's bad style because it's completely incompatible :-P
< 1271455103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But in this case the string is the code for a fingerprint instruction.
< 1271455111 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just do a "Hello"0< ?
< 1271455111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And writing Befunge code backwards is, um, not fun.
< 1271455114 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, no ?
< 1271455130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Well, because you have to get to the < first.
< 1271455141 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Well, then your " is not "; why not just make it a different command
< 1271455151 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q for quote
< 1271455160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ALTERNATIVELY tell your fingerprint-maker that it expects its argument to be reversed
< 1271455162 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or S for string
< 1271455196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it kosher to have fingerprint instructions do things like go into a string-ish mode?
< 1271455203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kosher?
< 1271455205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's feral, surely?
< 1271455205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, TRDS?
< 1271455223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's feral
< 1271455226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so's defining custom fingerprints
< 1271455308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah.
< 1271455313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it's avoidable...
< 1271455334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just reverse it in the instruction that wants the string?
< 1271455360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm saying.
< 1271455368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/923810.txt?key=ww3ktz3y2aqxbuk0suvgmg Here's how it'd be written like that, with 0"string"s.
< 1271455378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not feral, then.
< 1271455386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but is it bad style?
< 1271455394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should have it take 0"gnirt"s, then have the definition code run backwards; then, it'd be a "string"0.
< 1271455400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I'd use switchmode instead of 11x
< 1271455415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you don't need those trailing >s
< 1271455417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You could still have the instruction character first by using swap before I.)
< 1271455417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd look like
< 1271455426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I\ A' "0"0
< 1271455435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switchmode? And right you are.
< 1271455438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't consider 0"string" to be bad style
< 1271455443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said it was :-P
< 1271455449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you mean all base instructions doing that?
< 1271455451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't understand the context
< 1271455469 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I just takes a reversed string, I think that's fine
< 1271455475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's switchmode?
< 1271455481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Switchmode: "EDOM"4(S
< 1271455496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now [ turns into ] when executed and vice versa
< 1271455505 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And {} () likewise)
< 1271455568 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's that specced?
< 1271455574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, I should really memorise what the basic isntructions mean.
< 1271455576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instructions
< 1271455579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That pretty much is the spec
< 1271455581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/MODE.html
< 1271455617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: only supported by CCBI and Rc/Funge-98, AFAIK.
< 1271455617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would I use that to do line-by-line? Sorry; I'm retarded.
< 1271455627 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of
< 1271455628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11x> 'A 0"0"   I >
< 1271455632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do
< 1271455639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 'A 0"0" I
< 1271455665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The [, when hit from north, will take you east
< 1271455669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re support: excellent.
< 1271455676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It then turns into a ], so that when you hit it from the west, you go south.
< 1271455693 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh clever. So it'd look like
< 1271455697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v
< 1271455699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ...
< 1271455700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ...
< 1271455701 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ...
< 1271455704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep
< 1271455742 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you think 0"string"s are better than running the code backwards?
< 1271455746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doing
< 1271455755 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ I\ A' "..."0
< 1271455758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really mind
< 1271455759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, ignoring that the [ would have to change
< 1271455761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like 0"gnirts"
< 1271455765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just asking for your opinion on idiomaticness
< 1271455769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd just be ] then
< 1271455777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, you can just run right-to-left with "string"0 if you really care about readability
< 1271455780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 0gnirts seems more idiomatic
< 1271455789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you don't end up changing directions loads anyway
< 1271455849 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also, what if the code you want to run contains a 0? :-P
< 1271455871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Does any funge code have a \0 in it, really?
< 1271455875 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a PSOX fingerprint, for making interacting with PSOX easier 
< 1271455875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology does!
< 1271455884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology isn't a fingerprint.
< 1271455891 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no, there's really not much point
< 1271455893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm not doing length-pushing; this is meant to make fingerprint creation /easier/.
< 1271455901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology has \0 in it.
< 1271455905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, if I was running right-to-left, how would I do the switchmode stuff?
< 1271455909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe if you want to make an instruction that pushes a line from a file determined at runtime
< 1271455914 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Mycology have NULs?
< 1271455920 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make sure they work
< 1271455930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Same thing, just ] instead of [.
< 1271455947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And at the end of the line, presumably.
< 1271455951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No.
< 1271455957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh?
< 1271455960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it won't be executed the first time.
< 1271455962 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it will.
< 1271456060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, actually, I should take code and then name on the stack.
< 1271456063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could skip the swap.
< 1271456149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ...
< 1271456151 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X
< 1271456152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
< 1271456158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is executed after X, right?>
< 1271456159 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right?
< 1271456166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, we'll be going southwards.
< 1271456169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1271456232 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh at Opera Mobile being only on the Market
< 1271456287 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you unload EDOM while in switchmode, switchmode ends, right?
< 1271456293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you need to explicitly turn it off with S?
< 1271456297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn it off.
< 1271456298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MODE
< 1271456307 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that's an UNDEF, really.
< 1271456318 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/923841.txt?key=7tniprqy8nwr6wibrhvxmg
< 1271456326 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition code is surprisingly nice. This is promising.
< 1271456340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In CCBI 1.0.something and below you don't need to turn it off
< 1271456348 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course defining instructions with " in might not be so nice
< 1271456358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need two ) there
< 1271456363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or wait, what
< 1271456365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really?
< 1271456373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F starts the definition of a fingerprint called NUMS.
< 1271456375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firstly you need the S before the )
< 1271456381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is.
< 1271456382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you don't need another )
< 1271456384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.
< 1271456385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're executing backwards, remember?
< 1271456389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so you are.
< 1271456390 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, wait, it needs to be ] doesn't it
< 1271456392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't notice that.
< 1271456400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it needs to be ], like you said.
< 1271456401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right?
< 1271456405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, they all should be.
< 1271456428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My worry is that code that does something more complex -- like computation -- than simply feeding it a string might be ugly.
< 1271456429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh.
< 1271456433 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way keeps 0"gnirt"s.
< 1271456445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it has a string inside it it'll certainly be ugly; but such is life.
< 1271456460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess that depends on whether you think ""'" is ugly.
< 1271456483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"0""'"oof""'0
< 1271456492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst method of string escaping discovered!
< 1271456515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, "\'"n"
< 1271456522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So c = "c'" :-)
< 1271456538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just feels weird to be going backwards.
< 1271456550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then don't go backwards :-P
< 1271456570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I need 0"string"s, and that's worse! Isn't it?
< 1271456572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the Befunge expert.
< 1271456577 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't need them.
< 1271456587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, write the entire code for an instruction backwards?
< 1271456594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's going backwards, too :-P
< 1271456606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder what this would look like for 2D code.
< 1271456617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. Maybe I /should/ write my own quoting instructions.
< 1271456627 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271456628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can go forwards outside the string and backwards inside it, but that takes at least two lines
< 1271456650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. run the "" right-to-left, but do other stuff left-to-right
< 1271456725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume writing strings with newlines as-they-are (as in, 2D in the actual string building code) is not so pretty...
< 1271456756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a newline in a string you do 0"rab"a"oof"
< 1271456762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but I mean
< 1271456767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually having a newline in the code that builds the string
< 1271456789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a problem?
< 1271456862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a portion of Mycology with the same shape as in Mycology, but building the code that the section is instead. Mwahaha!
< 1271456866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you see the evil!
< 1271456889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that bad, really.
< 1271456914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... if I want my fingerprint-definer to truly be powerful, I need to let the code access the host IP.
< 1271456927 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, I can move around in the fingerprint code, but I can't write an instruction that changes the direction the IP is going in.
< 1271456930 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of having a literal 'foobar\nbaz' in the code you do ']"baz"0\n]"foobar"a
< 1271456934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'
< 1271456957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to move north if you want the Y-direction to be the same :-P
< 1271456972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then use [ again instead of ])
< 1271456976 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if you make something that lets fingerprints be defined in Befunge-98, that might be the only one my hypothetical AndFunge-98 interpreter will support
< 1271456994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Some fingerprints cannot be defined in that way.
< 1271457000 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as ones that affect the entire interpreter loop, such as TRDS.
< 1271457007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mini-Funge had instructions for that. Don't know what's happened to that in Rc/Funge-98's new system
< 1271457013 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURDS
< 1271457034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: TARDIS >:|
< 1271457042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:|||
< 1271457055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURDIS
< 1271457059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:||
< 1271457091 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's a Befunge interpreter on iProducyt

< 1271457093 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iProduct
< 1271457129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SDK license agreement forbids it.
< 1271457133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; it's against the T.O.S.
< 1271457134 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right
< 1271457138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even before the recent change, IIRC.
< 1271457143 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup
< 1271457152 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly, that's for the multitasking that's coming soon
< 1271457156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the recent change now forbids you writing your programs in Befunge and compiling them for use on the iPhone
< 1271457157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The recent change prevents pre-compiling, interpreting was already prevented.
< 1271457158 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although that doesn't really make senser
< 1271457168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That's[...]bullshit, in so many words.
< 1271457173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking Apple douchebaggery.
< 1271457179 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple so fucked up big-time with the TOS from the start.
< 1271457187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, writing in Befunge then compiling, you'd still have something capable of being a Befunge interp if it had exploitable p commands
< 1271457191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It annoys me because now Apple have totally ruined their reputation, whereas their actual computers have none of this shit
< 1271457211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always considered the iPhone SDK agreement completely unacceptable but I'm considered an Apple fanboy anyway :(
< 1271457213 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's what I hope happens: This kills Flash. Then, Apple is investigated for monopoly stuff
< 1271457215 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That's the problem, they've only ruined their reputation amongst the tiny portion of the population that gets it.
< 1271457231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: but Apple don't have a monopoly
< 1271457241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Apple are well within their rights here.
< 1271457250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: on the other hand, that portion of the population contains many of the people who'd actually plan to write apps for them
< 1271457262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Mm.
< 1271457268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what'll happen is that the app store ends up full only of people who are trying to exploit their customers
< 1271457275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's upsetting, because I want to like Apple computers and I want to support the computers.
< 1271457280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can't because I'm supporting the shit as well.
< 1271457282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't really sound ideal for Apple's customers
< 1271457372 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Opera Mini a good browser?
< 1271457386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: good for some things, not others
< 1271457398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera Mini is crap.
< 1271457401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you visit a web page, it renders that web page and sends you an image of the rendered web page
< 1271457403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say this because I have used it on a telephone.
< 1271457408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this gives you speed, but not many features
< 1271457408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to claw out my face.
< 1271457415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Note --
< 1271457421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera Mobile is an entirely different thing altogether.
< 1271457426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it as "browser so we can run /something/ on a system that normally couldn't", rather than "browser so you can use the internet"
< 1271457428 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, I gather, significantly less suckful.
< 1271457435 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will Opera Mobile be on Android?
< 1271457438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, Opera Mobile is an actual browser
< 1271457449 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: The Oracle does not yet know the answer to that question.
< 1271457456 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does now, though.
< 1271457458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's already out.
< 1271457461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: But just use the built-in browser.
< 1271457463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses WebKit.
< 1271457464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera Mobile is basically just a port of Opera.
< 1271457464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit is good.
< 1271457466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You like WebKit.
< 1271457472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it's already out on Android.
< 1271457473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a good browser.
< 1271457477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is Webkit.
< 1271457505 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're assuming that the part of Chrome that I like is WebKit.. Maybe I like the JS engine, or the interface
< 1271457519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never assumed that.
< 1271457523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm telling you that you do like WebKit.
< 1271457532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making the decision for you.
< 1271457577 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how EpicMafia works on Android

< 1271457598 0 :fungotCFUN!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271457598 0 :fungotCCBI!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271457701 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's CFUN?
< 1271457713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge's handprint.
< 1271457771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handprint identifies a specific interpreter
< 1271457776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caring about it is normally ill-advised
< 1271457799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's nice for ease of reference when you're trying to say which interp you're talking about
< 1271457813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do CCBI and CCBI2 have the same handprint?
< 1271457818 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes
< 1271457840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how similar are they code-wise?
< 1271457858 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I guess I should make my handprint something other than AndFunge-98
< 1271457871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ git diff -c 2.0-fork --stat | tail -n1
< 1271457872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 139 files changed, 17190 insertions(+), 8780 deletions(-)
< 1271457917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads FSF propaganda

< 1271457991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Join us now and share the software
< 1271457994 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be free, hackers
< 1271457997 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll be free
< 1271458000 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271458000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about software patents
< 1271458001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoarders may get piles of money
< 1271458002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true, hackers
< 1271458003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is true
< 1271458007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they cannot help their neighbours
< 1271458010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not good, hackers
< 1271458011 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not good
< 1271458012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it's as bad as the RMS stuff?
< 1271458015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thankfully I can't remember any more.
< 1271458029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I thought you were making that up
< 1271458031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1271458032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: First verse again, and then it's done.
< 1271458032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No!
< 1271458038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Free Software Song.
< 1271458039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, RMS should not be allowed to filk. *Ever*.
< 1271458045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAgQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gnu.org%2Fmusic%2Ffree-software-song.html&ei=zdrIS57NM9KTsQbwkOWmCw&usg=AFQjCNEgIz17BC-OPdJc-KYuzRPag6zLzA&sig2=BKvaEefBxD9l_1xUOhfQfQ
< 1271458045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's so very bad at it.
< 1271458046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops
< 1271458047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html
< 1271458053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.ogg
< 1271458058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gnu.org/music/free-software-song.html ;; other performances
< 1271458062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO BAD
< 1271458066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This song is in a rhythm of 7/8; those unaccustomed to odd rhythms often take the unevenness to be a mistake." Suuure
< 1271458072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you missed a verse
< 1271458074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When we have enough free software
< 1271458075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At our call, hackers, at our call,
< 1271458075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll throw out those dirty licenses
< 1271458075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever more, hackers, ever more.
< 1271458078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRTY DIRTY LICENSES
< 1271458080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ah, yes.
< 1271458098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He should never be allowed to filk.
< 1271458128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not bad at writing (though his stubbornness tends to bite him in the ass there), but that... *shudder*
< 1271458151 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you think about the multitouch bug?
< 1271458156 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: link me up
< 1271458187 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzhUzq6bTPg
< 1271458195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's his almost-as-bad APL poem:
< 1271458197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rho, rho, rho of X
< 1271458199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always equals 1.
< 1271458203 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rho is dimension; rho rho, rank.
< 1271458204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APL is fun!
< 1271458213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A far superior alternative:
< 1271458220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are three things a man must do before his life is done;
< 1271458222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write two lines in APL,
< 1271458225 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And make the buggers run.
< 1271458247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of the groan-inducing is that filks often rely on puns...
< 1271458256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stallman.org/doggerel.html An endless repository of pain.
< 1271458257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of it is that RMS likes puns too much.
< 1271458268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ For reasons obscure and unclear,
< 1271458269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't put my nose in my ear.
< 1271458269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if I succeed,
< 1271458269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be happy indeed,
< 1271458269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For I'll finally have a career.]]
< 1271458270 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o
< 1271458278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ If I could just kiss my own nose,
< 1271458278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have a career, I suppose.
< 1271458278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Christian right wing
< 1271458278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would frown on the thing;
< 1271458279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For safety, I'll just kiss my toes.]]
< 1271458282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit of a nose obsession going on here
< 1271458311 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pokes alise

< 1271458321 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: No sound, so give me a text summary please.
< 1271458334 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The visuals work just as well
< 1271458355 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multitouch on Nexus One, but not Android in general, seems to get the fingers confused if the axises cross
< 1271458371 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*axes
< 1271458377 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1271458378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a software bug.
< 1271458394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, eh, you don't really have any other viable Android phones available, and this seems a bit of an edge case.
< 1271458419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looked at the HTC Desire? Maybe it is out over there now.
< 1271458421 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad's considering switching/getting a T-Mobile
< 1271458518 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the myTouch like?
< 1271458535 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides ugly
< 1271458571 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271458579 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION growls at being unable to find the version of Android used by myTouch

< 1271458606 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271458687 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6 bleh
< 1271458716 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm getting a T-Mobile contract, there's little reason not to get the Nexus One
< 1271458742 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, maybe I should admit I'm a bit biased: I saw, and got to play with a little bit, a Nexus One last week
< 1271458758 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just played with the Android Scripting Environment, couldn't get it to work
< 1271458760 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still
< 1271458819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Look at the HTC Desire if you want to
< 1271458831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just like the Nexus One but with the prettier Sense homescreen and some other minor differences
< 1271458849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The myTouch is pretty old iirc
< 1271458853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1271458854 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's android 1
< 1271458876 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What network is Desire, again?
< 1271458886 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, T-Mobile
< 1271458905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/01/htc-desire-review/
< 1271458906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read that.
< 1271458919 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compares it to the Nexus One.
< 1271458923 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the Nexus One's exterior is prettier but the Desire's screen...contents are prettier.
< 1271458937 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sense UI is pretty, but other than that, and the phone button, I don't see the point
< 1271458942 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I can agree with that
< 1271459041 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering the tactile buttons and placement of trackpad, you'd THINK the Desire would have more screen space, grr
< 1271459045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sense has changes in the actual apps, I think
< 1271459064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Legend isn't very pretty but it has a fancy aluminium unibody covering :P
< 1271459068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Oh, that trackpad thing isn't nice IMO.
< 1271459072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer a trackball, at least in theory.
< 1271459075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271459092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTC_Sense
< 1271459100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Sense includes much more than just a home screen.
< 1271459109 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noise cancellation sounds interesting
< 1271459130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may prefer stock Android; uglier, probably, but more... stock.
< 1271459170 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in theory, the latter's unibody frame should be stronger than the Desire's old-fashioned assembly"
< 1271459195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but it's also more slippery.
< 1271459221 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Mind you, Android 2 introduced a major makeover to the whole UI.
< 1271459226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So stock Android isn't exactly ugly nowadays.
< 1271459269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: But also "and the phone certainly doesn't peeve your ears with distorted background noise as produced by the Nexus One"
< 1271459277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, who makes calls on their phone?
< 1271459338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Oh, and you can get the "best" of both worlds...
< 1271459340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Of course, if you're really into that little glowing ball and the touch-sensitive buttons, you can always try flashing the Desire ROM onto it (at your own risk, naturally). Have fun!]]
< 1271459357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the Nexus One is prettier on the outside and besides gives you more freedom if you want the Googley stuff by default...
< 1271459367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/21/htc-desire-rom-shoehorns-htc-sense-and-flash-10-1-onto-the-nexus/
< 1271459397 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So there!
< 1271459401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go for the Nexus One, probably.
< 1271459412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/04/11/Other-Android-Languages
< 1271459532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Tim Bray has a Nexus One, so if you like him go for the Nexus One!
< 1271459542 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: To be quite honest, since the Nexus One will be quite cheap on a T-Mobile contract, just get it.
< 1271459558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like you'll hate it or anything, it's, if not the best Android phone out there, in the top three.
< 1271459588 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Desire have the multitouch issue? I can see myself wanting to play games with others on occasion
< 1271459614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it does since it has similar hardware. And no, you won't.
< 1271459621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screen is not big enough for that; you wouldn't be able to see things.
< 1271459631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Pong could work, at the most.
< 1271459692 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nexus One is supposed to get Flash 10.1 soon?
< 1271459717 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, firefox is starting to get really weird on me
< 1271459721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has it now if you flash the Desire ROM.
< 1271459724 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is literally refusing to load some pages
< 1271459728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don't want Flash on a mobile device on the web.
< 1271459729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust Me.
< 1271459733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not pleasant.
< 1271459768 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't think you could have possibly tried it
< 1271459810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can read, and I can reason, and I have used the web on a phone without Flash extensively; that is enough.
< 1271459820 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the ROM?
< 1271459826 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try it on the emulator
< 1271459833 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how to get ROMs onto the emulator

< 1271459842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/21/htc-desire-rom-shoehorns-htc-sense-and-flash-10-1-onto-the-nexus/
< 1271459846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Click the post title)
< 1271459865 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271459894 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The title, it does nothing!
< 1271459907 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently, by title, you meant image?
< 1271459980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. :P
< 1271459984 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really think, at all. :-)
< 1271459986 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey alise
< 1271460001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoyoyoyo
< 1271460022 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you Iota/Jot?
< 1271460036 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it yeah
< 1271460038 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know**
< 1271460055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to get the guy who created it to come to our department to give a talk
< 1271460055 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::T
< 1271460508 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION probably won't do anything warantee-voiding

< 1271460513 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1271460525 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1271461016 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You know what? I've been looking over the Agora archives, and I miss you
< 1271461134 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange; wasn't I a total asshole? :P
< 1271461262 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what in particular made you remember how awesome I was? :P
< 1271461264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb
< 1271461300 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: comex's "For the love of god did you even read the arguments to that case?" You're like Yally, except you aren't just annoying in every way
< 1271461316 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: want me to ask him some questions when hes here? :x
< 1271461457 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: When two people dream the same dream, it ceases to be an illusion. KVIrc 3.4.2 Shiny http://www.kvirc.net
< 1271462033 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1271462041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: perhaps
< 1271462042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :))
< 1271462049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cfj #?
< 1271462060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively thread title
< 1271462063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh
< 1271462069 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the criminal case regarding AAA awards
< 1271462081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: let me know in the next three months :P
< 1271462085 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whether Taral was illegally failing to award them
< 1271462091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 10-ish
< 1271462111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what cfj number, I said :-P
< 1271462122 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were probably 3 pages worth of arguments, you said "trivially GUILTY/SILENCE"
< 1271462138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2402
< 1271462171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to take a bit of a lax attitude to nomic
< 1271462188 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/cellphone/8193/ expensive :(
< 1271462190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Judge ehird's Arguments:
< 1271462191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GUILTY/SILENCE; when the obligation was created, the AAA was a
< 1271462191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contest, and obligations don't automagically stop existing because
< 1271462191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't if they were calculated now.]]
< 1271462197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually considered this too obvious to state the first time around
< 1271462219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: those things suck
< 1271462248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ugh, why was it overruled?
< 1271462263 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I think those were your second arguments
< 1271462275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they were
< 1271462330 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how does it suck?
< 1271462340 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: they were overturned on reasonable belief, given how complex the sorting-out of the rules was. This was a bad overrule; ignorance of the law has long been held not to be a defence
< 1271462340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no tactile response whatsoever
< 1271462344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost impossible to use without looking at it
< 1271462355 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost like the Nexus One keyboard!
< 1271462367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but way too big to be usable
< 1271462399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: a shame; I bet something comes up sometime where that precedent will be useful