< 1272413349 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272413487 0 :nooga!~nooga@093105098174.pila.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1272414693 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272414722 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1272415209 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.2/20100316074819] < 1272415388 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272415532 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1272415636 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly bugfixed B93 Rexx interpreter here (works with OORexx now): http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.rexx/browse_frm/thread/f3184cef1db1c9e9# < 1272415678 0 :fax!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1272415792 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses alise finally went to sleep
< 1272415839 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourceforge.net/projects/oorexx/ < 1272415860 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REXX? < 1272415864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a blast from the ... never. < 1272415891 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooREXX isn't old ;-) < 1272415904 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it has x86-64 builds, so nyah :-P < 1272415905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: um alise is only here on weekends, mostly < 1272415913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in the same way that Object Pascal isn't "old" ... < 1272415941 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object-oriented COBOL is only eight years old. < 1272415992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object-oriented Brainfuck is very young indeed. < 1272415992 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all old !! (Lisp, BASIC, Fortran, C, C++) < 1272416007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't even be represented in a natural. < 1272416041 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooREXX apparently has .deb, .rpm, Win64, etc. binaries available < 1272416070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually someone has probably made it, it's just one of those gluing stuff to skateboard things < 1272416074 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever the heck "rte.bff" means < 1272416112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually uses actually a bit much, perhaps. actually.
< 1272416312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beseech thee to continue. < 1272416339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me or Rugxulo? < 1272416363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou, Oerjan, thou. < 1272416364 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not me ;-) < 1272416381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1272416426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems a bit out of place with "actually" when i am wildly guessing that something probably is true < 1272416446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually. < 1272416993 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272417829 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Rugxulo < 1272418299 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272418336 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1272418599 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-34-17-217.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272421875 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1272421898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelydino.com/?id=200 8-D < 1272422283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: the last original comic link isn't working < 1272422316 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm aware, that happens quite often actually, it's because the mapping isn't bidirectional, so I count on Google to have a smart reverse mapping ... < 1272422423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could, alternately, write a script to create the appropriate mapping. < 1272422618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but then I'd have to keep the mapping up to date, yuck :P < 1272422627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cron job < 1272422736 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You shouldn't count on companies like Google < 1272422789 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Google wanted, they could probably take over every aspect of my life < 1272423056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, it's fixed. < 1272423059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now stop complaining. < 1272423924 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, never heard of lonelydino before < 1272424085 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Reader's Digest version of Dinosaur Comics :P < 1272424225 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dinosaur Comics has... 1701 comics? < 1272424244 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have 200? < 1272424253 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1272424283 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's less than a year since you started < 1272424299 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1272424369 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think of it this way: There are 4,921,675,101 possible 3-panel comics. If .001% of these are funny, that's nearly 50,000 comics :P < 1272424398 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 7 years of comics with the exact same pictures... < 1272424455 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's ever April Fools :p < 1272424494 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lonelydino.com/?id=181 < 1272424525 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1272424562 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all end with *sob*? < 1272424598 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, just those < 1272424606 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272424655 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them are two-panel... < 1272424744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 4,921,675,101 possible... And increasing very rapidly! < 1272424760 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesh! < 1272424832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll gain 8,685,307 possibilities tomorrow. < 1272424840 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to be without the other dinosaurs? < 1272424858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's the gimmick. < 1272424861 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they weren't, T-Rex wouldn't be very lonely. < 1272424884 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why does the comic munger have the other 3 panels? < 1272424925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comic munger was a random thing Gregor made, and Gregor then discovered that T-Rex being lonely was funny. < 1272424988 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't've said it better myself *shrugs* < 1272425044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ryan North claims he still reads T-Rex is Lonely :P < 1272425092 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that inventie :-/ < 1272425097 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inventive < 1272425098 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it still. < 1272425121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Garfield Minus Garfield, except less surreal and more funny! < 1272425138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit less tragic too :P < 1272425173 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except when it's not) < 1272425218 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how's this: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1460,501,291 < 1272425269 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring, yes? < 1272425304 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit. Actually it's too reminiscent of a normal Dinosaur Comic ... one sec, dredging up a news post I made once. < 1272425351 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://lonelydino.com/?id=17 < 1272425359 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pseudo-News section. < 1272425466 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... so mine is the second category? < 1272425517 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearly, but it doesn't have the sort of "T-Rex fails at everything" conclusion that makes those funny. < 1272425537 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1272425545 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should read the original? :p < 1272425574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, Dinosaur Comics is amazing. < 1272425598 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a bit too large < 1272425599 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's awesomesauce. < 1272425604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes a commitment :P < 1272425630 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lament < 1272425801 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... better or worse than my first: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,1,5&comics=1043,1155,18&strip < 1272425848 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe taking out the middle panel would work :p < 1272425862 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=0,5&comics=1043,18&strip < 1272425883 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha, yes. < 1272425898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of http://lonelydino.com/?id=58 < 1272425926 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :-) < 1272426005 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is alt text of that "Khaaaaan!"? < 1272426027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bizarre reference to http://lonelydino.com/?id=7 < 1272426056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, to be confusing) < 1272426059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a non-bizarre reference to a certain Star Trek film. < 1272426070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wrath of Khan: it was actually good." < 1272426070 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1272426231 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I actually remember seeing that < 1272426253 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, at the end where the coffin hits the planet < 1272426388 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should sit down and watch the series sometime, so it actually makes sense :p < 1272426867 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://1pd.org/play/4479_exploit.aspx < 1272427288 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1272427326 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272427815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: TOS had good moments, TNG is quite good after the first two seasons, DS9 was quite good, and after that is a decade of shit. < 1272428107 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that Exploit game is TC
< 1272428322 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC? < 1272428334 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, turing-complete < 1272429000 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much of it is true ;-) < 1272429016 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard shortcuts would be way cool < 1272429642 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1272430552 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272430566 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272430817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1272430899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norway and russia have agreed on the border line < 1272430923 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only took 40 years... < 1272430941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sea border < 1272432494 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1272432622 0 :fivetwentysix!~pma@132.118.103.218.static.netvigator.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272432727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. < 1272432737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1272432753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe soon the RoC and the PRoC can agree on each other's existence. < 1272432908 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems unlikely < 1272432933 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1272432937 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1272432943 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as unlikely that Canada and the US settle their maritime border disputes < 1272432965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, they actually do dispute that. < 1272432966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it seems the chinese take a little more time to conclude, as a quote in the same newspaper article mentioned < 1272432987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Zhou_Enlai < 1272433005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I note that the RoC doesn't recognise any border changes since 1945... < 1272433029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy. < 1272433048 0 :fivetwentysix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1272433362 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1272433367 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1272433662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272433693 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1272434978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fantasysupplies.co.uk/Arm-Dildo-938.html < 1272436618 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too tired to care about anything
< 1272436620 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks ... awkward. Not sure why that's a good position in terms of control. < 1272436644 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow - within 5 seconds! < 1272436665 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wait for somebody else to be typing before I ever type. < 1272436684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: I guess if you had one strapped to both biceps, it would look pretty cool slash creepy ... slash slash :P < 1272436706 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Edward Penishands. < 1272436731 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1272436736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ported gnuplot to my eInk reader. Plots on eInk = friggin' amazing. < 1272436780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you probably want to make that "scissorhands" < 1272436787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: which reader? < 1272436793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: iRex DR800SG < 1272436805 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the processor? < 1272436808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, the porn I references was actually "penishands". Real thing. < 1272436818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: O_O < 1272436830 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "400MHz Freescale i.MX31L" < 1272436837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And no, it's not any good. < 1272436837 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it! < 1272436838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i _shouldn't_ be surprised :D < 1272436846 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1272436852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something Awful had a hilarious review though. < 1272436853 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's the world's most hackable eInk reader :) < 1272436876 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: GPL SDK, runs X11 + GTK+, porting stuff to it is so easy it's fun. < 1272436894 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272436905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In other words, it has a GCC backend? :P < 1272436926 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And UNIX! < 1272436941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1272436947 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. < 1272436954 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1272436986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd imagine the Catholics would dislike an actual "we own your sperm" license. < 1272437000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, every sperm is sacred. < 1272437019 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor laws. < 1272437052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I operate the quote bot? < 1272437066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your FISTS < 1272437071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use `quote to search, `addquote to add < 1272437105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing child or slave labor laws. < 1272437109 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :155| Well yeah, but furthermore unlike, oh, say, an Apple product, you don't have to sign their "we own your sperm" license agreement to GET that SDK and the requisite libraries. ... pikhq: Sure, but it's the only way Apple could get a first-born-son clause into a modern licensing agreement without infringing < 1272437113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1272437115 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1272437139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, output length restriction :P < 1272437161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because realloc is hard. < 1272437176 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because not making FreeNode kick you off is hard. < 1272437195 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, I use buffer.h, realloc is trivially simple :P < 1272437202 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an output length restriction < 1272437205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the output length restriction is part of the IRC protocol. < 1272437207 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not from the network < 1272437216 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and, as pikhq says, the protocol) < 1272437226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that's a shorter restriction than the IRC limit. < 1272437231 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that length restriction is internal to HackEgo < 1272437234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The problem is that the restriction is on the whole line, but my stuff is modularized in such a way that I can't easily restrict it there, so I have to restrict it conservatively. < 1272437235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1272437259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess you can't assume a 9-character limit to the nickname either < 1272437277 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314 says I can't. < 1272437288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the other network it's on, I'm not sure if they have any limit at all :P < 1272437366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##this-channel-name-is-so-veryv-very-long-good-luck-getting-a-word-in-edgewise-really-really-i-dare-you-youll-find-it-pretty-tough-to-do-so-try-it-youll-fail-just-watch-theres-no-way-around-it-sucker-hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah (and so on until you reach the actual limit) < 1272437397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC line length limit is... Pretty silly. < 1272437408 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible when fixed-length buffers were the norm < 1272437411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually the nick length limit is told to the client at connection-time; freenode says, for example, "NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390". < 1272437422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, when gets was in use... < 1272437422 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: per the spec, it's officially 9 < 1272437511 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, I have standardized tests tomorrow < 1272437518 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1272437542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have what is nearly the most important assignment of the year due tomorrow :/ < 1272437551 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it aten't done < 1272437558 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm tired < 1272437564 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1272438018 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWJECLN4S00 < 1272438046 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1272438054 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that ur fave song < 1272438091 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1272438091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1272438097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves someone else talking < 1272438101 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1272438455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And on the other network it's on, I'm not sure if they have any limit at all :P <-- 31 tends to be common < 1272438494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: per the spec, it's officially 9 <-- sure, but no one follows the spec < 1272438510 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFNet does < 1272438527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, okay, but apart from them and possibly ircnet: no one does < 1272439516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCnet is also, I think, rather spec-adherent, yes. < 1272439547 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer set of RFCs do say that: "While the maximum length is limited to nine characters, clients SHOULD accept longer strings as they may become used in future evolutions of the protocol." I guess everyone else has just decided to do "future evolutions" by themselves. < 1272439603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC RFCs are typically taken as mere suggestions, anyways. < 1272439642 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1272439651 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CTCP colour spec is never used, for instance < 1272439854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, everyone but ircnet completely ignored the newer version < 1272439858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1272439866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that line with "NICKLEN=16 CHANNELLEN=50 TOPICLEN=390" in it < 1272439869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not in any spec < 1272439873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure is. < 1272439881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In an expired internet-draft, that is. < 1272439884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no? isn't that the 005 < 1272439893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used for more than one thing < 1272439895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1272439906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh? really? < 1272439912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An expired draft is still pretty speccy enough! < 1272439916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See http://www.irc.org/tech_docs/draft-brocklesby-irc-isupport-03.txt < 1272439933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1272440012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having the AI competition "debriefing" / prize-giving / whatever session in half an hour; don't have much to say, should have prepared even more colorful graphics for it instead. < 1272440027 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272440068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who won? < 1272440096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One two-person group took both the first and second places (they're allowed to submit two bots). < 1272440119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They submitted the same thing with slight tweaks in the computation-time management logic. < 1272440136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is, I guess, reasonable; there's two of them, now they'll get two prizes. < 1272440517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you have nothing better to do, here's some slides with statistics on the tournament in Finnish on them; you can read it for the pictures. :p http://zem.fi/~fis/htloppu10.pdf < 1272440910 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1272440927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I do have something more important to do (sadly) < 1272441014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the slides won't go anywhere. < 1272441040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably go set up the laptop there, and see if the projector is again somehow borken; that classroom tends to have Issues(tm). < 1272441054 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1272441599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1272441600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1272441794 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1272441889 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Hey! Listen! < 1272442595 0 :Alex3012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272442829 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are any of your esofags also metalfags? < 1272443145 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's metal in the buckling springs of my keyboard, they make sounds... does this mean I listen to metal? < 1272443211 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1272443215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/transfers/dmnm.pdf < 1272443292 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, this pdf viewer always makes its window about 1.25x the size of my screen < 1272443517 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was too long for my attention span < 1272443523 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1272443736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Ping < 1272443880 0 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1272444821 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people write about music in a really stupid way < 1272444862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write an article related to music and you don't need to mention any specific melody, you're not actually saying anything < 1272444899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't try to disagree, this is how i define not actually saying anything < 1272445022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be a lot nicer if you came NOW, and didn't wait for me to leave first < 1272445044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have just one line to say, so i could just say it now, but that would be stupid < 1272445545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should have that message-passing bot. < 1272445562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could say it now, and it'd be repeated when oerjan says pong, and it'd be somehow much less stupid. < 1272445570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magically. < 1272445825 0 :lereah_!~lereah@nanpc301.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1272446363 0 :Axtens!~Axtens@dsl-202-72-158-213.wa.westnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1272446433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes true < 1272446652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are any of your esofags also metalfags? <-- Do you smoke metalfags using a blowtorch? ;P < 1272446669 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, obviously < 1272446692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, well, I don't smoke. I guess that is why I didn't know that. < 1272446692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh, there was a total of two (2) out of fourty-four (44) participants present at the prize-giving occasion. < 1272446707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those two being the winners? < 1272446720 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, but places #3 and #4 would've gotten prizes too, had they been there. < 1272446730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did it say so somewhere? < 1272446749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mean, maybe they missed that 3 and 4 got prices too? < 1272446773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you should email them and tell them what they missed out on < 1272446784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw what did the various prices consist of? < 1272446832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's not exactly written down anywhere, because the exact number that get prizes depends on how many prizes the guest lecturer / Hierarchy designer happens to bring; but I've said to them that "3-5 best" get rewards, informally. < 1272446881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, obviously you should come there not because of the prizes but because you want to participate in lively discussion about the course-project. < 1272446892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And colorful graphs. < 1272446935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even had a video, though I forgot to show it; it would've been a spectacularly boring 12 seconds, anyhow. < 1272447138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could've been worse < 1272447140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1272447143 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've been TWO worse < 1272447158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice as worse. < 1272447162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap < 1272447606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1272447621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what did the prices consist of? You didn't answer that < 1272447665 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-159-104-149.range86-159.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272447685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the thing i wanted to tell you was just that i was really disappointed by how "groups are categories", you just use the morphism composition as monoid multiplication... i thought it'd be something cool like identifying groups by what their automorphisms always look like or something < 1272447707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite important i'm sure you'll find < 1272447726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that's not obvious < 1272447792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : We should have that message-passing bot. <-- memoserv? < 1272448018 0 :Axtens!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1272448203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, right. There was some chocolate, and some bottles; it's one of the most non-dry Finnish celebrations soon -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walpurgis_Night#Finland -- and it's a particularly student-oriented one. Nothing extravagant, anyhow. < 1272448289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure memoserv is quite as convenient; and it's so off-channel. I was thinking more like #scheme's bot, which would wait until the message recipient said something publicly, and then repost the message on channel. < 1272448495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1272449919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you going to party hard? < 1272449957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is vappu the one where there are balloons if you're a kid < 1272449996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re balloons; yes, I think so. < 1272450004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're just going to stay at home and not go outside. < 1272450024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're doing even better and visiting her parents < 1272450034 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they live nowhere < 1272450049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vihti < 1272450062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I did consider a balloon; the cat we had when I was young(er) was most interested in them, perhaps the current one might be too. < 1272450085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tie some sort of a cat toy in the balloon string; insta-amusement without having to do anything. < 1272450089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's some long lasting fun for your cat there. < 1272450102 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just received a book on an esoteric language :) < 1272450108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's the claw-and-balloon problem, though. < 1272450112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1272450114 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their perspectives are pretty neat < 1272450136 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://i.imgur.com/6EYM3.jpg highly recommended so far < 1272450153 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yummy < 1272450168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once read half a book about cobol < 1272450169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1272450173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember anything < 1272450177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like 6 < 1272450192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emphasis on the like < 1272450234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a friend who I think was somewhat cobol-skilled, but personally don't know anything about it. I don't think it's consensually considered an esolang, though? More like semi-obsolent and businessy. < 1272450248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh "walpurgis night" == valborgsmässoafton? < 1272450249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1272450252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is big here too < 1272450277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bonfires are traditional < 1272450306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't do bonfires except at midsummer. < 1272450324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at midsummer? How strange ;P < 1272450343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the Wikipedia article I got the impression that the tone is a bit different for this one in Finland and Sweden. < 1272450353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main article image for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midsummer is a Finnish bonfire, in fact. < 1272450387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think midsummer bonfires are not a Finnish-only thing, though. < 1272450411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for midsummer in Sweden, maypoles are traditional. < 1272450450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't called maypole in Sweden though (that would be the wrong month!) < 1272450464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called "midsommarstång" which mean "midsummer pole" < 1272450530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The subsections for Brazil, Croatia, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Lithuania, Norway, Portugal, Russia and Ukraine and Spain mention the word "bonfire" in them. < 1272450546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Sweden bit does note that in "Sweden and parts of Finland the tradition of bonfires are not part of midsummer but of the "Valborg's" evening festivities when winter leaves for summer." < 1272450561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1272450589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which parts of Finland those are; not the eastern ones, I think. < 1272450961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I also picked up a rather interesting book from the "getting-rid-of" bin of the local library; it is a guide for translating (not porting, not understanding, just translating according to a rigid set of rules) FORTRAN-II and FORTRAN-IV programs to ALGOL-60 and back. There's large tables of hardware specs for different 1960s-era computers (most of which I've never heard of) and all other sorts of curious miscellania. < 1272451580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, probably some of the Swedish speaking parts < 1272451614 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272451629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1272452258 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272452494 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272452676 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1272453330 0 :cheater3!~cheater@ip-80-226-211-5.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1272453597 0 :pineappl1!~pineapple@cpc3-aztw11-0-0-cust24.aztw.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272453875 0 :cheater2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1272453875 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1272453875 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1272454821 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272454821 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1272454825 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1272454825 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1272455156 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantom_h@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272455192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the hell did Apple think that it was a good idea to make the hash key alt-3? < 1272455353 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272455708 0 :cheater3!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272456573 0 :cheater2!~cheater@ip-80-226-211-5.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1272459398 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272459686 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1272460673 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272461095 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1272463825 0 :Axtens!~Axtens@CPE-58-170-181-87.wa.bigpond.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1272463975 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1272464071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode. < 1272467858 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1272467993 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1272468019 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272468223 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@129.241.210.68 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272468524 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1272468577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: pong < 1272468715 0 :chickenzilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1272469085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why the hell did Apple think that it was a good idea to make the hash key alt-3? < 1272469095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's shift-3 here < 1272469103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(norwegian keyboard) < 1272469131 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about the same thing for rings, is it a cheat < 1272469159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure my ping and the rest of my thing was in the same place, if not keep reading < 1272469171 0 :chickenzilla!~chicken@olol.eu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272469172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rings as categories? i think that's a bit harder... _however_: < 1272469226 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are already in the category of abelian groups, then the single-object subcategories are of course endomorphism rings < 1272469255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might need more than that single object to extract the ring operations < 1272469261 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :category theory books tend to go pretty fast from exact proofs to "look at this commutative diagram here and you'll see" a bit too quickly for me < 1272469305 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(addition that is. there's a way of extracting it using categorical products and/or coproducts) < 1272469332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1272469343 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1272469362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was limits/colimits < 1272469377 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't really know any of those thing yet < 1272469379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*things < 1272469388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1272469393 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i suppose i do know products to some extent < 1272469431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which of course means i know coproducts! < 1272469452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the duality of understanding < 1272469457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're almost the same thing in abelian categories (such as the category of abelian groups) < 1272469474 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are abelian categories? < 1272469478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since sum of two abelians groups is isomorphic to their product) < 1272469504 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1272469510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that any two morphisms A -> A commute? < 1272469522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall exactly, but _basically_ i think those are the categories where you can do that trick to define group operations on the morphisms A -> B < 1272469550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emm umm okay < 1272469601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically they _look_ like the objects are abelian groups and the morphisms are group homomorphisms, as far as category theory can detect. iirc. < 1272469618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that makes sense < 1272469626 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1272469633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really tell me anything tho < 1272469634 0 :Axtens!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1272469655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be some other things, like products and stuff should exist (which you need to do that trick anyway) < 1272469671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should check wikipedia that i'm not completely bullshitting < 1272469831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok not _too_ far from the truth < 1272470007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i said may be somewhat closer to an _additive_ category, which has only _some_ of the properties of an abelian category < 1272470009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1272470016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1272470066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably go read some topology < 1272470071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically (1) in a _preadditive_ category, morphisms form abelian groups, but not necessarily in a way you can extract from the category < 1272470108 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272470116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an _additive_ category, you have enough structure (biproducts, it seems) that you can get the addition out from just category properties < 1272470139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, category theory < 1272470165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"morphisms form abelian groups" < 1272470170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way exactly? < 1272470171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an abelian category though, also has some other ways of combining objects categorically < 1272470199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do more of that diagram chasing stuff etc. < 1272470252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well for a preadditive category, i think you just have the addition as extra structure, Hom(A,B) comes with it for every object A and object B < 1272470277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1272470283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess that's neat < 1272470299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an additive category however, you don't need to include anything extra, it's uniquely definable using the biproduct thing < 1272470311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna elaborate on biproduct?, or is it in parens so you don't have to < 1272470316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1272470334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha, SCO have just submitted a motion to rule that the jury judged SCO vs. Novell incorrectly < 1272470339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... pretty amazing < 1272470399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The jury verdict in this case is the type for which Rule 50(b) and Rule 59 exist. The jury simply got it wrong: The verdict cannot be reconciled with the overwhelming evidence or the Court's clear instructions regarding the controlling law. < 1272470432 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I fail to believe there issuch a law/avenue for motion < 1272470435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what was it that you you had a permutation proof for exactly, group theory related < 1272470439 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-you < 1272470443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ages ago < 1272470447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Fermat's Little Theorem, probably < 1272470453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it seems to be a product that is also a coproduct of the same objects. for abelian groups products and coproducts coincide, so it's a natural property there < 1272470454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ah right < 1272470465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(finite ones that is) < 1272470483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: this is SCO we're talking about; they're likely to try more or less anything < 1272470500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 50 says that if there's no evidence/legal arguments to favour one side of a court case at all, it can be thrown out without going to the jury < 1272470505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SCO are trying to invoke it retroactively, it seems < 1272470569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the definition seems to also require a zero object in the category, so that some morphisms combine to zero < 1272470607 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, if that doesn't scream 'this legal sytem is a farce, then nothing will. Surely you cannot overturn a judgement made within the law based on, what seemes to be a lack of solid evidence one way or anothr combined with the fundemetal tennant of "innocent until proven guilty", or can you? < 1272470628 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ce,/ce',/ < 1272470631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: SCO only submitted the motion, that doesn't mean that the judge has to pay it any attention < 1272470631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway other fun theorem that follows from almost the same thing, x^p = 1 in any group has kp solutions, k>1; consider equivalence classes by conjugacy on the set S = {(x_1, ..., x_p) | x_i \in G, \product x_i = 1}, clearly (1, ..., 1) \in S, so there must be kp, k>1 different (x, ..., x) style tuples in S (because all conjugates of S's elements are in S) < 1272470632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(say when you have a morphism that sends something only to the A part of A x B, combined with a morphism that projects down to the B part) < 1272470645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1272470646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, the case has been a farce for almost a decade now < 1272470651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conjugacy being xy -> yx < 1272470674 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but we all know it will drag on for another five years like this, if they can keep cheating < 1272470698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: yes < 1272470722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that is < 1272470756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|G| has to be divisible by p < 1272470778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah i should've thought this through before saying it, i read the proof like 4 weeks ago :P < 1272470862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, for every p-1 first elements in a tuple we have exactly one way to finish the tuple to get the product to be 1, so we have |G|^(p-1) tuples in S, so p | |S|, NOW if you take equivalence classes by conjugacy, you see the amount of (x, ..., x) tuples has to be divisible by p, because every eq class has either 1 (x, ..., x) element, or then p elements, because p is prime < 1272470892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xy = 1 ==> yx = 1, ofc < 1272470929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the amt is kp, k>1 because at least (1, ..., 1) is there < 1272471073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm not sure i'm capable of doing this stuff without being completely formal, yet, the cat stuff that is < 1272471102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it's just because i don't remember products that well < 1272471111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or understand < 1272471113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or love < 1272471127 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION :)
< 1272471178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey i'm not doing it either, just describing the buzzwords :) < 1272471188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you form a product category, but sometimes you find an object C you call the product of A and B in the *same* category as A and B, if it has the cool splitting property that morphisms to A and B can be combined into < 1272471190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do it requires pen and paper < 1272471202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this confused me for quite a while when reading about them < 1272471238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i would assume a product category is a product of two objects in the category Cat < 1272471257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right, i guess that's why reading math books is so hard for me, i clarify every detail to myself, but i never use paper < 1272471278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yes i suppose it is < 1272471286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming, since i don't recall what a product category actually is < 1272471360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably a natural enough thing (natural being also a technical term, naturally :D) < 1272471423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if C category, and A, B \in C, then (AxB (\in C), outl (also in C), outr) is the product of A and B iff for every pair of morphisms f1 : D -> A, f2 : D -> B there's a unique morphism g : D -> AxB such that outl . g = f1, outr . g = f2 < 1272471424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1272471451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's natural, but i haven't been able to see how that's naturality in the category theory sense... < 1272471515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in the intuitive sense that is rather natural < 1272471586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if something in category theory looks natural, then there is probably a technical sense of naturality which it fulfils. or at least functoriality or similar. < 1272471618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably, and probably i have already seen how that's natural exactly, but i didn't know what was going on yet < 1272471632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that product definition looks fair enough < 1272471634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a very slow learner < 1272471644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an oerjan style iirc < 1272471653 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1272471727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now add the dual inl and inr for a coproduct, and if the _same_ A x B is also the coproduct, with some added equations, then it's a biproduct < 1272471749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hmm < 1272471788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outl . inl = id_A, outr . inr = id_B, outl . inr = 0_B->A, outr . inl = 0_A->B < 1272471806 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so coproduct would be (AxB, inl, inr) is the coproduct of A and B iff for every pair of morphisms f1 : A -> D, f2 : B -> D there's a unique morphism g : AxB -> D such that g . inl = f1, g = f2 . inr < 1272471813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 0 notation invented on the fly, it means it's the unique morphism factoring through the zero object < 1272471842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are requirements not properties? < 1272471874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the zero parts, i think, the identities might be automatic < 1272471911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least outl outr = id_(AxB) is automatic < 1272471924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd imagine other id things might follow automatically too < 1272471925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1272471929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1272471946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw maybe even the zero parts follow somehow < 1272472057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it seems it does, there is something in the properties section of wp:Biproduct < 1272472134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm maybe not quite < 1272472149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factoring through the zero object? < 1272472171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i read something like that without realizing i have no idea what it means < 1272472192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why math is so hard, i always confuse not understanding and not knowing < 1272472202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero object is an object such that every object has exactly _one_ morphism from it and one to it < 1272472211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but umm < 1272472213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1272472216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal & initial < 1272472222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initial + t .. right < 1272472263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i thought zero was a nickname for initial, because of the sets |I| = 0 & |T| = 1... < 1272472294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if a morphism is a composition of something into the zero object and out of it, then there is only one way of achieving that between A and B < 1272472297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case you can't factorize through it < 1272472345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in abelian groups, the zero object is the trivial group, usually denoted 0 < 1272472360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i get it, i just guessed the wrong definition, although now that i think about it, "the one object" sounds a bit stupid < 1272472370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sets initial and terminal are different < 1272472370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm yes < 1272472380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they are I and T < 1272472407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singleton object is a fancier name :) < 1272472456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I is the empty set < 1272472467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said that < 1272472492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's YOU who has to spell these things out, not me i can be obscure. < 1272472494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you didn't < 1272472500 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" okay i thought zero was a nickname for initial, because of the sets |I| = 0 & |T| = 1..." < 1272472537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the difference i'm aiming for here is that there is only _one_ empty set, but many singleton sets < 1272472572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that category theory cares < 1272472599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T's are isomorphic brethren < 1272472624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are all terminals always? < 1272472631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1272472636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell me < 1272472684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T1 and T2 terminal, so f : T1 -> T2 and g : T2 -> T1 unique, so their compositions must be identities because they are *some* morphisms from Ti to itself, and there's just one such morphism because Ti terminal < 1272472690 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272472709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's identity, because there's always identity < 1272472720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly my first category theory proof < 1272472731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe my fifth, who knows < 1272472770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot know before you construct the category of numbers < 1272472784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1272472792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was a joke) < 1272472804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guessed, but i still didn't get it < 1272472820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... < 1272472839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you meant the fifth thing < 1272472842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1272472918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1272472923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so okay we have some dual result now < 1272472925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see < 1272472938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initials are isomorphic too, right < 1272472995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while only terminals are left < 1272472996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just about to ask how you can have multiple initials, but that's sort of obvious from how duality emerges in the first place... < 1272473064 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right -> left? sorry to call all your jokes, but somehow they just look like random references to things rather than things with two meanings < 1272473075 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lament < 1272473078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly right is dual to left < 1272473082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1272473119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but see i didn't see how that made sense without the reference, it has to make a bit of sense without it too, or it's not a pun but a ...nothing < 1272473149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but possibly it did, and i'm just not seeing it because my brain is asleep < 1272473170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1272473209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"initials are ..., right", you could imagine this meaning that "initials are among other things right" < 1272473218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would make sense < 1272473224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i'm satisfied < 1272473259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly terminals are what's left at the end < 1272473292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you start isomorphing things? < 1272473312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1272473326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we be more formal about this, too complicated this way :( < 1272473343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know a theory of formal joking, sadly < 1272473357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i c < 1272473387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :".. joking, sadly" <<< this would probably have triggered a pun of some sort if i'd said it? < 1272473506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, we're all out < 1272473519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1272473526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some topology now, before this all turns into a farce of some sort < 1272473563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that would be stretching it < 1272473621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some homeomorphic images are less natural than others < 1272473655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so < 1272473683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'M laughing < 1272473689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but yeah really -> < 1272473722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i wasn't laughing) < 1272474305 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272475321 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1272475914 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-12.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1272475974 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1272475990 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1272475990 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1272476905 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272477116 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272477782 0 :pineappl1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pineapple < 1272477791 0 :cal153!~cal@pool-98-111-83-203.sttlwa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272478332 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272478394 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pythonwizard2539 < 1272478568 0 :pythonwizard2539!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :jcp < 1272479374 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1272479414 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1272479815 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272480263 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272480397 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1272480899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have this wild idea of a ASIC for befunge93... < 1272480909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1272480916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably async < 1272480927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing particularly asynchronous about befunge93, is ther? < 1272480932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1272480948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no but that isn't required. After all an async MIPS CPU was made. < 1272480958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ASIC for Befunge will never exist, there wouldn't be the demand to make them a million at a time, etc, which is needed to be cost-effective with ASICs < 1272480975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, you could never actually get it on silicon < 1272480980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could design and simulate it < 1272480993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just program it onto an FPGA? < 1272481025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too slow? ;P < 1272481039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPGAs aren't slower < 1272481046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just larger and more expensive than an equivalent ASIC < 1272481053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cheaper if you don't have the volume :) < 1272481083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depends, aren't you limited to the gate level in FPGA < 1272481091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't construct a gate it doesn't support? < 1272481105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and see http://www.async.caltech.edu/mips.html < 1272481113 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1272481121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming you're using two-valued logic, you can construct any sort of gate you like out of NAND gates < 1272481130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, fwiw, LUTs like FPGAs use < 1272481138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1272481141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know what you linked, I've set my client to filter out links < 1272481145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might be less efficient < 1272481155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... so how should I let you see it? < 1272481165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h t t p : / / www.async.caltech.edu/mips.html < 1272481167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1272481171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that go through? < 1272481172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just describe what you're trying to show, I suppose < 1272481175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it didn't :) < 1272481180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ascii graphics? < 1272481184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why do you filter urls? < 1272481193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I basically never click on them anyway, and they're just annoying < 1272481198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay what about: www . async . caltech . edu / mips.html < 1272481204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I particularly want to see a bunch of ASCII graphics, for instance < 1272481215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, but that is what I would have to render the image there as < 1272481215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got the link that time, but I still don't have any particular impetus to follow it < 1272481229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it describes that async MIPS CPU < 1272481233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and? < 1272481240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik MIPS isn't inherently async < 1272481266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I appreciate that something that isn't inherently asynch can be programmed into an asynch circuit < 1272481270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they reached very good speed with it compared to similar size clocked < 1272481270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to show me proof < 1272481370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some 2,5 times faster, and adapting to current temperature as required (always runs as fast as possible), also less power usage (no clock signal taking power) < 1272481371 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynch cpu == lazy evaluation applied to circuitry? < 1272481383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you can follow that link btw < 1272481391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: asynch just means there isn't a global clock < 1272481392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, it is basically "no clock signal" < 1272481396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and preferably not local clocks either < 1272481397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no clock at all < 1272481403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I understand < 1272481405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's independent of strict/lazy < 1272481421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have local clocks but not global, it's somewhere between synch and asynch < 1272481494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, possibly there is some to interface with external buses, but otherwise it based on "quasi delay-insensitive circuits" < 1272481504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could link to a wikipedia article about it < 1272481508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be pointless < 1272481523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as I gave a talk about quasi-delay-insensitive circuits yesterday < 1272481527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1272481535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a coincidence < 1272481537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am perfectly capable of searching Wikipedia myself, even if I didn't happen to know what they were < 1272481549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but I prefer being helpful ;P < 1272481570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and, if you gave a talk on them I guess you know way more than me about them < 1272481627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it seems very interesting. I wonder why current CPUs aren't based on such technology consider it is both faster (it seems?) and uses less power < 1272481633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, perhaps you can explain that? < 1272481645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much harder to test < 1272481646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it has been around for a number of years < 1272481652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much much harder < 1272481653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1272481695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about using a mix though? < 1272481700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also harder to optimise; with synchronous circuitry you can do all sorts of pipelining tricks and get major performance improvements pretty much for free < 1272481706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just by messing with the software < 1272481718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just going async seems to give a major performance win though < 1272481722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with asynchronous circuitry, pipelining's still possible but you need a bunch of extra circuitry to do it < 1272481730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272481734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, unoptimised it's considerably faster < 1272481748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how optimised synch and asynch compare < 1272481762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you don't depend as much on the delay in the circuit if I understood it correctly < 1272481776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it will adapt itself to what is possible(?) < 1272481792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, if you go fully delay-insensitive, but unfortunately that's impossible < 1272481806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you go quasi-delay-insensitive instead, and the delays matter but only in a few places < 1272481810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1272481816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you can design individually < 1272481829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you are better off than with sync where you depend on it all the time < 1272481858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1272481878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the point is that if you aren't depending on delays, you aren't /exploiting/ delays < 1272481884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1272481893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a modern CPU you can do ten things at once and know the relative times they'll finish at < 1272481897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put instructions in branch delay slots < 1272481899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1272481900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sort of thing < 1272481914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with asynchronous circuits, none of those tricks work < 1272481915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, not all parts can benefit from that presumably? < 1272481922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they can't < 1272481935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a mixed technology might be useful? < 1272481946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how hard has people actually looked at optimising async circuits? < 1272481947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and there's research in that ongoing at the moment < 1272481949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's not me doing it < 1272481954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the mixed technology, I mean) < 1272481961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for optimising asynch circuits, I'm not sure < 1272481966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, sync circuits are *way* more common as far as I understand it < 1272481995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been extensively researched. < 1272482006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly unlike async circuits(?) < 1272482027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw "asynch"? "async" seems more common in many places? < 1272482048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be a UK/US difference < 1272482051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1272482053 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272482069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, computer scientists prefer messing with asynchronous circuits, because the maths is simpler < 1272482080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1272482088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but engineers prefer synchronous circuits, because they act much more deterministically when they malfunction < 1272482089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and what if you need low power usage, rather than high speed < 1272482103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you slow down the clock, or don't use one at all < 1272482115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general rule is that changing a value from 0 to 1, or vice versa, takes more power than leaving it the same < 1272482116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for the latter aren't you at async circuits then? < 1272482123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more current, anyway < 1272482131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, async is generally better for low power usage < 1272482140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, but with the clock signal you have d-latches and such changing every clock cycle? < 1272482160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally you can get a "good enough" effect with a synchronous circuit that turns itself off when it isn't needed < 1272482171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, the clock signal transitions twice a cycle by definition < 1272482182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or once a cycle if you use both edges, but nobody does (except in DDR memory) < 1272482205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but considering people are pushing for more and more battery time on various devices, wouldn't there be an advantage with async? < 1272482222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even if you have good enough with sync, "even better" might be a selling argument < 1272482253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is finding competent engineers to develop it < 1272482255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why don't you just double the clock rate in DDR instead? < 1272482263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember < 1272482265 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is ;) < 1272482268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is probably a good reason though < 1272482272 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double Data Rate < 1272482278 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the DDR2 < 1272482282 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1272482291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, give the CS people an engineering course? < 1272482292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1272482303 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200->400->800->10xx mhz < 1272482308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1272482316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, according to Wikipedia, it's to do with the amount of bandwidth needed to send the clock signal < 1272482340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait what? Doesn't the clock signal has it's own special signaling network anyway? < 1272482347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1272482359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what do you mean bandwidth for it? < 1272482359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is that you need twice the bandwidth to send the signal twice as fast < 1272482367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just in the signal-processing sense < 1272482370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: HyperTransport also uses both edges of the cycle. < 1272482382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how can that be a problem on a dedicated wire < 1272482383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wires tend to get overloaded, even sending alternate sequences of 0 and 1 < 1272482386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1272482390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's because you need a better dedicated wire < 1272482395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1272482406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, capacitance in the wire or something like that? < 1272482409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it was cheaper to complicate the circuits than to build a supercooled semiconductor or something like that just for the clock signal < 1272482412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or resistance I guess < 1272482413 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just realised he's in over his head, just as with about everything on this channel (:
< 1272482417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all sorts of effects, although that's one of them < 1272482436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Interference also comes into it. < 1272482437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, so would I have been about a year ago :) < 1272482442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I can imagine < 1272482451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about inductance? < 1272482455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1272482458 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you've got signals that fast, things start getting *picky*. < 1272482471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as we don't get quantum-* I'm happy < 1272482472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, every electromagnetic phenomenon you've ever heard of < 1272482474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a few more < 1272482492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quantum mechanics don't apply outside of the CPU yet. :) < 1272482504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Except for some of those tunneling diodes. < 1272482505 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272482506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took an entire module at University just about imperfect behaviours of wires < 1272482514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I doubt we get impedance though ;) < 1272482517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the failure conditions can be quite crazy < 1272482531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: impedance is just a measure of resistance, capacitance and inductance simultaneously < 1272482554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of resistance like sin, inductance/capacitance like cos, and impedance like e^x < 1272482564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the impedance is a more general concept, but only if you use complex numbers < 1272482570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes quite. That is why you don't get impedance, since that is just a neat way to combine it as a complex number < 1272482578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Older computers didn't have to think about all this crazy stuff. 3MHz clock rate is relatively slow. < 1272482584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have actual *physical* impedance afaik < 1272482584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: except no, the impedance is /very/ important < 1272482595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1272482609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought it was just a way to calculate on the numbers? < 1272482615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, as you go down a wire, the impedance rotates around the origin < 1272482629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, these were the days when it was quite feasible to wire-wrap your computer. < 1272482637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as in you don't get 3e^(-j90°) on the actual wire < 1272482648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so inductances turn into resistances turn into capacitances turn into resistances turn back into inductances as you go along the wire < 1272482675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Impedance is a real thing. < 1272482683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, it's a complex thing < 1272482694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *rimshot* < 1272482711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that isn't what I have been told. I have been told it was a way to calculate on these things. < 1272482712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1272482725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to something that actually exists in reality < 1272482728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, in theory you can decompose all the calculations back to resistances and reactances < 1272482729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Arguably so is everything in physics. < 1272482735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but arguably reactance doesn't exist in reality either < 1272482741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, fwiw, resistances < 1272482742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay good point < 1272482748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or force. < 1272482754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fwiw standing for? < 1272482757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you can get a resistor which has a fixed resistance, does that mean that resistance exists? < 1272482760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For What It's Worth. < 1272482762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1272482765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good question < 1272482790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, dealing with impedances is a lot more "natural" < 1272482791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is just that people don't like to think that complex numbers exists in "reality" < 1272482820 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Time to fix < 1272482821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know, you can just calculate almost everything as if it was DC current (at least if you have a sinus shaped AC current) < 1272482869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Smith_chart.jpg < 1272482884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I filter links too now < 1272482896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1272482903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, only from you though ;P < 1272482911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1272482920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is it about < 1272482925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should describe it in words < 1272482932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the idea is that you can plot impedances on a weird coordinate system < 1272482948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can plot it in polar coordinates afaik? < 1272482950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all possible impedances (apart from ones with negative resistance) get a point on the unit circle < 1272482963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can plot in polar coordinates, but the Smith chart method is different < 1272482973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? what does it do instead? < 1272482987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember < 1272483048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, lets see if I remember this... Re(X) = resistance? Abs(X) = Peak voltage/current? Or did I mix them up? < 1272483050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... an impedance of 1+j0 is in the centre < 1272483069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: X means reactance, so you're messing up in at least some way < 1272483074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1272483097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no X can't, since X is the parameter there which is a complex number? < 1272483102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1272483108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: impedance is called Z < 1272483113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1272483119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminology < 1272483121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1272483135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but Re(Z) is what? < 1272483136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, circles of constant resistance all go through a single point at the extreme right < 1272483147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Re(Z) = R = resistance, Im(Z) = X = reactance < 1272483152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1272483165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Abs(Z) is ratio of peak voltage and peak current < 1272483190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you can get a negative R by combining it with something that rotates it by 180 degrees? < 1272483200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, on the paper, in theory < 1272483204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is nothing that rotates impedance as a whole 180 degrees, though < 1272483212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rotate 180 degrees on a Smith chart, but that does something else < 1272483224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would be enough to rotate it by more 90 degrees < 1272483236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing does that either, without a power supply < 1272483241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1272483246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make a negative resistor just fine if you have a spare power supply to mess with < 1272483249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for -90 too < 1272483256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the rather more useful VDNR < 1272483261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VDNR? < 1272483265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a negative resistor that depends on frequency < 1272483268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, FDNR < 1272483274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frequency-dependent negative resistor < 1272483277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1272483283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1272483286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a power supply? < 1272483288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1272483290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how else? < 1272483291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1272483299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I don't know, magic? < 1272483313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even magic doesn't violate the law of conservation of energy, AFAIK < 1272483321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or by reversing the polarity. That solves everything after all. Especially for AC circuits ;) < 1272483331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need /some/ power supply, whether it's made of electricity or magic fairy pixie dust < 1272483342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, what does rotating 180 in that smith chart do? < 1272483363 0 :augur_!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272483369 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1272483375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Z = 1/Z < 1272483383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reciprocals the impedance < 1272483384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, turn it into conductance? < 1272483390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into susceptance < 1272483401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so inductors become capacitors, and resistors stay resistors but with different values < 1272483404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"susceptance"? That is one I never heard before < 1272483418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resistance/conductance, reactance/admittance, impedance/susceptance < 1272483427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1272483431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's a generic rule of electronic engineering, it's "if X exist, name 1/X as well" < 1272483435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if X exists < 1272483445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot capacitance/inductance there, they are pretty much opposites too < 1272483457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for many practical purposes < 1272483482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they might not be if you want to build an electromagnet though) < 1272483503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is 1/P? < 1272483509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, P that is measured in W < 1272483516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an exception I think < 1272483519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1272483531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway in what way would 1/watt even be useful? < 1272483543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, capacitance = 1/inductance if you convert them both to reactances first < 1272483559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't you mean impedances? < 1272483566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay the 1/ moves the other way < 1272483566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either < 1272483579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the way you write it down I mean) < 1272483585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the only difference is a factor of j, which mathematicians call i < 1272483590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1272483596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it i or j depending on context < 1272483605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I don't get very much confused by it < 1272483607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1272483626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm even used to hitting i on the calculator and writing j on the paper by now < 1272483676 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it j in MATLAB because I always end up overwriting i by using it as a loop index somewhere. < 1272483690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do modern CPUs still use those "full adders"? < 1272483694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems inefficient < 1272483699 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272483706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for actual addition? yes < 1272483718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although maybe not with exactly that circuitry < 1272483725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure, one network for a 32-bit adder would be extremely impractical. but why not take 2 input bits at once < 1272483727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for other things, like incrementing the instruction pointer, you don't need a full adder < 1272483729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a double-full adder < 1272483750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would still be a reasonably simple network < 1272483756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, they're normally more concerned with carry forwarding < 1272483764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're thinking of a serial full adder there < 1272483769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, ofc, they use parallel full adders < 1272483770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1272483777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I thought you meant to start with < 1272483785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about carry forward < 1272483795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, they even use parallel /multipliers/, which are O(n^2) in space but O(1) in time < 1272483803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where n is the number of bits < 1272483821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't a double full adder + carry forwarding be faster? < 1272483839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "double full adder"? < 1272483847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typical full adder adds two numbers < 1272483851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what you need on x86 < 1272483856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean, something that adds three numbers? < 1272483857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I said above. it would take more bits than just x_1, y_1 < 1272483868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would take x_1, y_1, x_2, y_2 < 1272483874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a carry of course < 1272483877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a 32-bit full adder takes x_1...x_32, y_1..y_32, and carry-in < 1272483895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and as far as I can find out that would be quite a huge network < 1272483895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modern computers probably have 64-bit full adders < 1272483902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not huge < 1272483905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1272483907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about this: how large is L1 cache? < 1272483911 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you designing some sort of cpu? < 1272483916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, atm yes < 1272483929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how large is a 64-bit adder compared to an L1 cache? < 1272483930 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: coincidence, I think not < 1272483935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a 64-bit multiplier is likely to be smaller < 1272483940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why do you need carry forward with a 64-bit full adder? < 1272483946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so it runs faster < 1272483957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you have to wait for the carry to ripple all the way from one side to the other, and it slows down your clock < 1272483962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh I thought you meant *one* two level combinatorial network < 1272483977 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if this is one of those carry lookahead things, or the funk,y xor ones
< 1272483989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: aren't those the same thing? < 1272484003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is what I meant for more than 1 bit < 1272484012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 1 bit from each number + carry < 1272484018 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272484030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tbh, it wouldn't shock me in the least if the things had "perfect carry forwarding" < 1272484037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which means? < 1272484038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they minimized the circuit for all possible 64-bit additions < 1272484043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1272484064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean like one massive Karnaugh diagram (yes I know there are other algorithms...) < 1272484067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously that calculation's too big to do by brute force, but it should be repetitive enough to be able to do with a cleverer method < 1272484069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, pretty much < 1272484075 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I cant seem to remember, but IIRC, one does addition sans carry then works it out with it and the other basically does bit addition for each pair with a carry of 1 and one of 0 and then selects, or something through a network < 1272484110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would still like to calculate the size of such a Karnaugh diagram < 1272484112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: I'm thinking of the method where you divide the numbers into, say, 4-bit blocks < 1272484113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to try it
< 1272484128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each block has an ordinary full-adder, and there's circuitry which works out in advance what the carry from the block before will be < 1272484132 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I will now check wk < 1272484132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can be used before it's calculated < 1272484139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helping to keep the clock cycles short < 1272484139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would a 64-bit Karnaugh diagram be 2^32 * 2^32 cells? < 1272484149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well probably < 1272484159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, 2^64 * 2^64 < 1272484165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have /two/ 64-bit inputs < 1272484170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good point < 1272484178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of obvious that you can't minimize it that way < 1272484185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so given a side distance of 5 nm (say) that would give us.... < 1272484199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks for his TI83+
< 1272484231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, is nano 10^-9 ? < 1272484233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -6 < 1272484233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2^60 is around 10^18 < 1272484235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget < 1272484241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nano's 10^-9 < 1272484259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess is it's going to be around 16 million metres per side < 1272484265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention, you'd never be able to fill in all the cells anyway < 1272484271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one side is ~9.22*10^10 < 1272484275 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.aoki.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp/arith/mg/algorithm.html#fsa_csu is the one and http://www.aoki.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp/arith/mg/algorithm.html#fsa_cla is the other < 1272484279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is aprox of course < 1272484290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Karnaugh maps are there purely for doing things by hand < 1272484301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no concept for what 10^10 meters is < 1272484334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well units tell me it is less than a parsec anyway < 1272484349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1272484352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't be right? < 1272484357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it isn't < 1272484360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :342853.06 parsecs < 1272484364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aprix < 1272484366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aprox* < 1272484381 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as you can see, pretty different things :P < 1272484382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the hubble volume in parsecs? < 1272484390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato, he filter urls < 1272484395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1272484404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiato: I filter out links < 1272484408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I never follow them anyway < 1272484422 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1272484455 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, the one is a Carry select adder and the other is a Carry Look-ahead adder < 1272484568 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272485848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 10^10 m in parsecs < 1272485860 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10^10) meters = 3.24077649 � 10^-7 Parsecs < 1272485894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10^10 is just 10 billion < 1272485953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the circumference of the earth is only 40 million meters < 1272485972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is that US billion? < 1272485973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 10^10 m in light minutes < 1272485975 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10^10) meters = 0.555940159 light minutes < 1272485979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1272485983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1272486009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 10^10 m in light seconds < 1272486011 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(10^10) meters = 33.3564095 light seconds < 1272486186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1272486478 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272486947 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1272487254 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272487468 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272487613 0 :Tamschi!~Tamme@p5DC1044D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1272487625 0 :Tamschi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1272488454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 10^10 m in cucumbers < 1272488456 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. http://images.google.com/images?q=10%5E10+m+in+cucumbers&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi < 1272488466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of cucumbers. < 1272488874 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272488899 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1272489219 0 :adam_d!~Adam@cpc2-acto6-0-0-cust48.brnt.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272489502 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-156-102-135.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272489592 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1272489660 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-171-100-185.range86-171.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272489794 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272489866 0 :Azstal!~asztal@host86-171-102-114.range86-171.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272489958 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1272489963 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1272490426 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272491513 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1272491581 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272492050 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272492869 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1272492898 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272493427 0 :adam_d!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1272493825 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1272494096 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they have multiplier designs where the time required doesn't depend on the size of the inputs? < 1272494118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: no, but the size depends on them < 1272494120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think lookup table < 1272494151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, but has similar speed properties < 1272494160 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm, right, lookup table. < 1272494185 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just finished taking a class that kind of covers this stuff. < 1272494189 0 :hiato!~fdulu@41-132-142-17.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1272494206 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It covered logic gates, assembly language, and nothing in between. < 1272494243 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, the textbook, "Digital Design and Computer Architecture" by Harris and Harris, covers logic gates, assembly language, and everything in between. < 1272494257 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for floating point operations. It covers floating-point addition, but nothing else. < 1272494271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272494698 0 :tombom_!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1272494839 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzzzzzzZZZzzZZZzz < 1272494839 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1272494852 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Hey! Listen! < 1272495013 0 :tombom__!~tombom@86.25.48.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272495164 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1272495522 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate armktokhund < 1272495525 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman = < 1272495533 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en armktokhund < 1272495535 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :armktokhund < 1272495547 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1272495559 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Han må tydeligvis besøke deg oftere. < 1272495561 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He must obviously visit you more often. < 1272495626 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1272495745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate 僕がハックエゴと言うボットだ。 < 1272495747 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bot said that I Hakkuego. < 1272495755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. < 1272495803 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1272495945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, nothing below logic gates? < 1272495948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, such as CMOS < 1272495970 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we kind of covered transistors. < 1272496002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in much detail presumably? < 1272496009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl, VHDL? < 1272496032 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if the class even mentioned VHDL. < 1272496053 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We covered logic gates, and adders were kind of mentioned, and then it went straight to assembly. < 1272496059 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1272496061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaargh codu.org is down < 1272496062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1272496068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The server at codu.org is taking too long to respond. < 1272496071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a disaster < 1272496072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ^ < 1272496075 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-63-12.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1272496086 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks up to me. < 1272496105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a particular service it's slowing? < 1272496114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wget http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg yes < 1272496121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--2010-04-29 00:07:46-- (try: 4) http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op11.ogg < 1272496121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Connecting to codu.org|64.62.173.65|:80... failed: Connection timed out. < 1272496121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Retrying. < 1272496123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from wget < 1272496129 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, E_WORKSFORME < 1272496131 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm very glad that the textbook covers almost everything you need to know to design a CPU. < 1272496149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, traceroute gets through it seems < 1272496158 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost want to make a MIPS CPU right now. < 1272496181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 98% procent packet loss < 1272496183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says ping < 1272496198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite extreme < 1272496198 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E_WORKSFORME < 1272496201 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No packet loss, nothing. < 1272496208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you moved to China recently? < 1272496211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1272496224 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1272496224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell < 1272496231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet traffic report times out < 1272496232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1272496250 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272496251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can you check http://www.internettrafficreport.com/ or http://www.internetpulse.net/ for problems < 1272496273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm timing out from everywhere but google and freenode < 1272496274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, "sletteloggen". < 1272496274 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1272496284 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1272496284 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1272496298 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1272496324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, traceroute indicates huge packet loss at telia backbone < 1272496335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very close to my uplink < 1272496339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1272496343 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not my fault, therefore I don't care. < 1272496349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1272496361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, have some sympathy < 1272496439 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poor AnMaster, boo hoo." < 1272496469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1272496470 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I might be able to email you that OGG or something. < 1272496512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably he can't do email either *shrugs* < 1272496607 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could /msg it. :P < 1272496613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1272496621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah internetpulse gets through < 1272496650 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1272496658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codu still times out < 1272496662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99% packet loss < 1272496678 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272496703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stats are 0,0,13,1,45,47,53,93,88,73,72,79,99 (for each jump) < 1272496715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is huge packet loss to codu in other words < 1272496778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now internettrafficreport gets through too < 1272496786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it seems things are rerouted < 1272496806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 33% loss < 1272496906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaand back to 99% < 1272497102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, you broke the Internet? < 1272497224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why is it that you have no problems with Freenode :P < 1272497225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1272497231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, EU server < 1272497234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite reasonable < 1272497247 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should all get European mirrors. < 1272497255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm in Europe < 1272497256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why < 1272497281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from traceroutes to various place it seems the telia nodes it goes through to cross the atlantic causes it < 1272497505 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1272497616 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, Wikipedia says that the Scandinavian cross symbolizes Christianity. < 1272498130 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1272498247 0 :Asztal!~asztal@host86-156-97-80.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1272498441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: sounds like vandalism < 1272498457 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not vandalism unless it's obviously vandalsim. < 1272498526 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1272498573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, you're Canadian aren't you? < 1272498593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going there for a conference next-but-one weekend, and am currently in a row about the climate of Ottawa < 1272498598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, whether I need to take a coat < 1272498617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't say < 1272498683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, honest advice at least < 1272498706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll ask an Ontarian < 1272498718 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason, it was hot in Allendale today despite only being 55 degrees Fahrenheit. < 1272498747 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1272498759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I regularly walk around without a coat in the UK even when the temperature's below 0 degrees C < 1272498792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the forecast looks good enough for you not to wear one then < 1272498804 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theweathernetwork.com/fourteenday/caon0512?ref=qlink_st_14day < 1272498817 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... the Ontarian is little help < 1272498864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, OK < 1272498888 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still bring a sweater or something