←2010-05-06 2010-05-07 2010-05-08→ ↑2010 ↑all
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00:03:50 <Sgeo> My laptop is, for all intents and purposes, dead
00:03:57 <Sgeo> Needs a new power cable
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00:26:06 <uorygl> `translate programvareverkstedet
00:26:08 <HackEgo> var sl_select, tl_select, web_sl_select, web_tl_select;var ctr, web_ctr, h;var tld = ".com";var sug_lab = "";var sug_thk = "";var sug_exp = "";var dhead = "Dictionary";var dmore = "View detailed dictionary";var tr_in = "Translating...";var isurl = "";var show_roman = "Show romanization";var hide_roman =
00:26:44 <uorygl> Meh, Google Translate says it's "software workshop".
00:26:47 <oerjan> software workshop
00:26:51 <oerjan> ...right
00:27:00 <oerjan> *the
00:27:29 <oerjan> `translate verksted
00:27:32 <HackEgo> workshop
00:27:49 <uorygl> It says 'verk' means 'plant' and 'stedet' means 'instead'.
00:28:03 <oerjan> hm i thought `translate used google translate
00:28:06 <uorygl> So maybe it's a plant instead of being a workshop.
00:28:16 <oerjan> that's almost nonsense
00:28:17 <uorygl> `translate verk, sted
00:28:19 <HackEgo> plant, location
00:28:27 <uorygl> `translate verk, stedet
00:28:29 <HackEgo> works, rather than
00:28:30 <oerjan> `translate i stedet
00:28:32 <HackEgo> instead
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00:28:51 <oerjan> it doesn't mean instead unless you prepend "i"
00:29:05 <uorygl> Does 'stedet' just mean 'stead', then?
00:29:12 <uorygl> I guess it does.
00:29:13 <oerjan> the place
00:29:43 <oerjan> verk has several meanings
00:29:58 <oerjan> work, plant, pain
00:30:17 <oerjan> `translate tannverk
00:30:21 <HackEgo> toothache
00:30:28 <oerjan> `translate vannverk
00:30:32 <HackEgo> waterworks
00:30:39 <oerjan> `translate livsverk
00:30:43 <HackEgo> life&#39;s work
00:31:16 <uorygl> Jatsu tsappari dikkari dallan tittari tillan titstan dulla, dipidapi dallaa ruppati rupiran kurikan kukka ja kirikan kuu.
00:31:28 <oerjan> finnish?
00:31:36 <uorygl> Finnish-style gibberish.
00:32:44 <uorygl> I notice that that part doesn't contain "s" except as part of "ts".
00:33:16 <oerjan> i didn't know ts- in the beginning of words was allowed in finnish
00:33:26 <oerjan> but then it _is_ gibberish, you say
00:33:27 <uorygl> Maybe it's not.
00:34:00 <pikhq> Man. That looks a lot like Japanese-style jibberish.
00:34:12 <uorygl> Hey, it does.
00:34:36 <uorygl> "titstan" isn't possible in Japanese, but I think the rest is.
00:34:39 <pikhq> Of course, *actual Finnish* looks a lot like Japanese-style jibberish. :P
00:34:43 <oerjan> they _do_ have a bit similar phonology, with lots of cv syllables...
00:35:02 <pikhq> uorygl: "l" is not a phoneme in Japanese.
00:35:07 <uorygl> Oh, right.
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00:38:57 <Sgeo> At least this is an opportunity to load some old music onto my N1
00:39:20 <uorygl> {.iatsutsapa ri di ka ri da lantita ri ti lantitstandula di pi da pi da la ru pa ti ri pi rankuri kankuka .ia kiri kanku}
00:40:04 <uorygl> Er,
00:40:07 <uorygl> {.iatsutsapa ri di ka ri da lantita ri ti lantitstandula di pi da pi da la ru pa ti ri pi rankuri kankuka .ia ki ri kanku}
00:40:34 * Sgeo ponders loading his oversized MIDI collection onto the N1`
00:40:35 <Sgeo> N1
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00:40:39 <oerjan> ia ia, shub niggurath
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01:44:04 <Sgeo> The Programming Contest problem I made: http://pastie.org/949412
01:46:14 <oerjan> while cat $somefilename | read -n 1 somechar; do
01:46:43 <oerjan> it feels unintuitive to me that that should actually give a different character on each iteration
01:46:57 <Sgeo> I didn't actually check it
01:47:11 <Sgeo> >.>
01:47:31 <oerjan> maybe cat $somefilename | while read -n 1 somechar; do
01:47:41 <oerjan> if that is possible
01:47:57 <Sgeo> It should be
01:48:23 <Sgeo> You're right
01:48:27 <Sgeo> Let me send a message
01:49:48 <Sgeo> Sent, hopefully anyone having trouble reads it
01:50:17 <oerjan> you should still check it, i'm not an expert on shell programming
01:50:23 <Sgeo> I did
01:50:34 <Sgeo> sgeo@ubuntu:~$ echo "Hello" | while read -n 1 h; do echo -e $h; done
01:50:35 <Sgeo> H
01:50:35 <Sgeo> e
01:50:35 <Sgeo> l
01:50:35 <Sgeo> l
01:50:35 <Sgeo> o
01:50:47 <Sgeo> And the other way just did an infinite loop
01:50:55 <Sgeo> Of nothingness
01:51:04 <Sgeo> tyvm
01:51:10 <oerjan> you're welcome
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04:17:54 <zzo38> #"(.`,/
04:18:42 <oerjan> you don't say
04:19:04 <zzo38> I don't say
04:19:38 <zzo38> See if you can figure out its purpose and if you can make a shorter one that is still only symbol (without alnum)?
04:20:08 <oerjan> i don't even know the language.
04:21:47 <zzo38> It is something on Anarchy Golf!
04:24:53 <oerjan> i don't really go there, i'm not so interested in golfing
04:25:10 <zzo38> OK
04:26:17 <zzo38> Did you know my "Check for brainwave activity" problem? Well, I didn't win. I got it down to 12 bytes before post-mortem.
04:26:37 <Sgeo> zzo38, I remember it. Linky?
04:26:51 <zzo38> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Check+for+brainwave+activity
04:27:07 * Sgeo screams in faux horror at the .rb
04:27:36 <zzo38> Why?
04:28:08 <Sgeo> Pretending that I'm horrified at Ruby
04:28:17 <Sgeo> Also, it's just printing a string?
04:28:26 <Sgeo> And how does /*/g*/e*|tac work exactly?
04:28:50 <zzo38> It it dependent on the files on the computer. On other computers it might not work.
04:29:27 <zzo38> /*/g*/e* expands to /usr/games/espdiff but there is a blank line at the top of output, so tac command will fix that
04:31:25 <zzo38> What I didn't know is that an input would also do..... but now I learned
04:31:41 <Sgeo> What's espdiff?
04:32:55 <zzo38> I didn't actually know what it was either, at first. But I looked in the files and found that file on the Anarchy Golf server, so I figured it out.
04:33:18 <zzo38> It says it is a program to do whatever the user wants, but actually it just delays and then tells you there is no brainwave activity detected.
04:33:36 <zzo38> The deep scan mode just makes it delay longer.
04:33:48 <zzo38> It is a shell script, you can look it up easily in Anarchy Golf server
04:34:44 <zzo38> I don't know why someone wrote this program, but they did!
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04:38:30 <zzo38> I have a question about Linux: If you use dd to copy a DVD device file to a normal file, will the file be usable as a ISO file?
04:38:53 <pikhq> Yes.
04:39:11 <pikhq> Though you may want to use ddrescue instead.
04:39:31 <zzo38> Why?
04:39:37 <pikhq> dd just craps out on errors. ddrescue goes crazy and gets the data off the disc anyways.
04:40:02 <zzo38> OK
04:43:11 <zzo38> If you record a CD/DVD, can you put the name of the device file instead of the ISO file, will that work?
04:49:16 <zzo38> How difficult is it to program a window manager that you can push some key combinations to send signal to the currently program, such as wm-pagedown for SIGUSR1, wm-pageup for SIGUSR2, wm-end for SIGTERM, wm-pause for SIGSTOP, etc?
04:52:07 <zzo38> And wm-home would be for SIGHUP and wm-delete for SIGKILL.
04:56:12 <pikhq> I... Hmm. I suppose you *could* use the device file instead of an ISO file on disc.
04:56:33 <pikhq> And that window manager feature would be *pretty darned* hard to do.
04:56:46 <pikhq> You see, the window manager is not aware of PIDs.
04:58:07 <zzo38> Ah, OK. So that's why other window managers won't do that, it is because of not aware of PIDs. But how does it sent SIGWINCH signal correctly?
04:58:23 <pikhq> SIGWINCH?
04:58:50 <zzo38> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIGWINCH
04:58:52 <pikhq> Ah, that. The window manager doesn't.
04:59:11 <pikhq> The *terminal emulator* sends that signal.
04:59:28 <pikhq> And the terminal emulator does that in response to a resizing *message* from X11.
04:59:49 <zzo38> OK
05:00:01 <zzo38> So that's how it works.
05:00:04 * Sgeo loves how Ruby has 10 million different ways to do almost, but not quite, the exact same thing, for each value of thing.
05:00:48 <zzo38> Ah, so that's how Ruby works.
05:05:56 <zzo38> How to messages work in X, is it like a event loop?
05:06:23 <pikhq> Yeah. It might... Actually be called an "event".
05:06:37 <pikhq> I only vaguely know the structure of X.
05:06:40 <pikhq> There be deep magic in there.
05:09:22 <zzo38> I saw something about _NET_WM_PID it says it is used for killing processes
05:09:42 <pikhq> Hmm.
05:11:01 <zzo38> It says it can use that to check the PID for the client owning this window
05:11:25 <pikhq> Hmm.
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13:51:12 <Tritonio_GR> i have some english language related questions and my native english speakers in MSN aren't logged in.
13:51:24 <Tritonio_GR> so I guess I will ask here... :-)
13:53:48 <Tritonio_GR> does "Bees have to survive. This translates to having complex social procedures" make any sense in english? Especially the "translates to" part, does it mean "means"? Or is it a bad translation from Greek?
14:04:39 <nooga> huh
14:05:08 <nooga> i think it's okay but i'm not a native speaker
14:09:03 <Tritonio_GR> really? and you are not Greek right? because that might be the reason this sounds good to you... ;-)
14:09:39 <nooga> Polish
14:10:04 <Tritonio_GR> ok great.
14:10:08 <Tritonio_GR> i hope it's correct then
14:25:15 <pikhq> That looks... Weird.
14:26:10 <Tritonio_GR> ςηατ?
14:26:12 <Tritonio_GR> ooops
14:26:16 <Tritonio_GR> what looks weird?
14:35:33 <pikhq> "Bees have to survive. This translates to having complex social procedures."
14:35:55 <pikhq> I'd probably write that as something like "In order to survive, bees have complex social procedures."
14:46:13 <Tritonio_GR> yes i know. plus the sentence is completelly made up for the purpose of bringing up my point. anyway I found an american and asked him. i changed it to "involves"
14:47:35 <pikhq> Though, "translates to" is a perfectly valid English phrase, even used as "implies" or "means".
14:47:49 <pikhq> It just looks weird in this context.
14:48:36 <Tritonio_GR> ah ok then i'll keep it in mind. :-) don't mind the context.
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14:51:34 <Tritonio_GR> pikhq: you can still help.
14:51:40 <Tritonio_GR> "The answer to this problem passes through RSS feeds and personalized micro sites."
14:51:47 <Tritonio_GR> "passes"
14:51:54 <Tritonio_GR> crap or not?
14:53:13 <pikhq> *shrug*
14:54:10 <oerjan> erm, what does it mean?
14:54:28 <oerjan> it looks weird to _me_, but i'm a norwegian :)
14:54:30 <Tritonio_GR> that RSS feeds are part of the solution
14:54:40 <oerjan> right, i don't think that's reasonable
14:54:52 <Tritonio_GR> good. neither do i
14:54:54 <Tritonio_GR> :-)
14:55:17 <Tritonio_GR> The problem is partially solved by RSS feeds etc... ???
14:55:20 <oerjan> try "involves"
14:55:35 <oerjan> or that
14:56:12 <Tritonio_GR> ok thanks.
14:57:02 <oerjan> yours is more direct, so probably better
14:59:28 * oerjan notes the mezzacotta comic is particularly gruesome today
15:00:10 * oerjan votes it fully baked, for the first time in months probably
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15:24:48 <Tritonio_GR> byeeee
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17:12:37 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga!
17:37:29 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover!
17:38:50 <Phantom_Hoover> You took your bloody time!
18:04:01 <P4> Which esoteric langue is the fastest in md5 generation? (http://crazy-tronners.com/P4/very/bad/md5-test?reset)
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19:14:48 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover!
19:18:28 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:KB_Japanese.svg This is an awful keyboard layout. *Awful*.
19:19:34 <pikhq> Especially when you consider that Japanese only needs some 15 keys to be input.
19:21:02 <pikhq> "kstnhmyrwaiueo" suffices.
19:21:55 <pikhq> No, wait, that's missing diacritics.
19:22:19 <pikhq> 2 keys for those, another for small-kanji. 18 keys, short punctuation.
19:26:55 <nooga> my frient has a laptop with such kbd
19:36:06 <SgeoN1> What are Chinese keyboards like?
19:39:13 <pikhq> Which Chinese script?
19:40:13 <pikhq> There's Simplified Chinese, Traditional Chinese, and (small niche) Cryllic.
19:41:10 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keyboard_layout_Chinese_Traditional.png Anyways. This is a common layout in Taiwan.
19:41:24 <pikhq> Note the 4 different supported input methods.
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19:42:44 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga!
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19:43:05 <Phantom_Hoover> How rude.
19:43:32 <pikhq> Also: yes, keyboard layouts are not standardised in the Sinitic languages.
19:43:46 <Phantom_Hoover> ???
19:44:08 <pikhq> There's like 20 different input methods.
19:44:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, my client must have dropped out while you were talking.
19:44:37 <pikhq> Most of them based on trying to input the structure of the characters, a few of them based on pronounciation.
19:45:07 <pikhq> (pinyin and zhuyin for Mandarin, jyutping for Cantonese, pretty much structural only for *any* other Sinitic language)
19:46:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Sinitic?
19:46:06 <pikhq> (... With the exception of Dungan, which is written with Cyrillic.)
19:46:38 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: The family of languages deriving from Old Chinese.
19:47:03 <pikhq> Or the common ancestor of Old Chinese and Bai, if one includes that language in the family as well.
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19:48:00 <Phantom_Hoover> nooga!
19:49:08 <pikhq> All of the Sinitic languages but Dungan and Bai are commonly written with a Chinese script. Bai can still be written with such a script, but Dungan cannot, do to the large number of Russian loan words in the language.
19:49:47 <pikhq> Also, if you buy the official line of the PROC, these are all dialects of the same language.
19:49:54 <pikhq> Somehow.
19:50:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Linguistics sometimes seems interesting.
19:54:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Although I hate having to *learn* languages.
19:55:32 <pikhq> Language education is commonly terrible.
19:55:58 <Phantom_Hoover> I dropped French and German, though I still do Latin.
19:56:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Primarily because it's taught differently, and the curriculum is less boring.
20:00:41 <nooga> heh
20:01:03 <Phantom_Hoover> I just realised that that seems absurd.
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20:01:20 <pikhq> Not really. Latin is a fascinating language.
20:01:23 -!- nooga has joined.
20:01:37 <pikhq> Pity it's not used much as an actual language.
20:01:54 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq: Indeed. And I can now grasp Perligata, so it's relevant to esolangs!
20:01:56 <pikhq> (rather than a source of neologisms or ancient-looking flair)
20:02:55 <Phantom_Hoover> The neologisms are fun, too.
20:03:21 <Phantom_Hoover> I still say "praeterition" and get a warm, fuzzy feeling when people ask me what it means.
20:03:54 <pikhq> Quick, make harder neologisms!
20:04:23 * Phantom_Hoover runs to fetch textbook
20:04:26 <pikhq> Hayaku, tsukau harder shingoisms!
20:05:08 <pikhq> Mmm, English's acceptance of neologisms.
20:05:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Scription? Too obvious...
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20:05:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Quietion.
20:06:12 <Phantom_Hoover> It both sounds wrong and is a false friend!
20:06:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Profection.
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20:06:30 <pikhq> :D
20:06:53 <Phantom_Hoover> I like that one. I must remember to use it
20:07:18 <Phantom_Hoover> "Which party will best aid the profection of our nation?"
20:07:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Pervention.
20:08:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Nescition!
20:10:18 <Phantom_Hoover> Bah, all of the "I"s are already words.
20:10:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Conspection!
20:11:10 <Phantom_Hoover> Concursion!
20:11:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Already a word...
20:16:02 <SgeoN1> My laptop's dead.
20:16:16 * Phantom_Hoover plays Funeral March
20:16:31 * Phantom_Hoover burys Sgeo's laptop
20:16:54 <SgeoN1> Well, it either needs a new
20:17:28 <SgeoN1> Power cord, or um... the hole for the power cord needs to be fixed somehow.
20:18:10 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a bit late now.
20:18:14 <Phantom_Hoover> I just buried it.
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20:26:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Why does he do that?
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20:30:56 <SgeoN1> There's no way to charge my computer via my phone, is there?
20:31:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I seriously doubt it.
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20:31:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Your phone's battery will have much less capacity than your laptop's
20:34:50 <SgeoN1> I'd have my phone hooked up to the charger
20:35:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Surely the voltages would be different?
20:36:06 <Phantom_Hoover> You can charge phones from laptops because USB ports are *designed* to give power to small devices.
20:36:31 <augur> sup kids
20:36:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo's laptop is broken, and he's running through all sorts of zany schemes to fix it.
20:37:50 <augur> nutty
20:38:10 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: my word you have quite the irish name dont you
20:38:17 <Phantom_Hoover> What?
20:38:25 <augur> "domhnall"
20:38:31 <Phantom_Hoover> How do you know that?
20:38:37 <augur> /whois Phantom_Hoover
20:38:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Fuck.
20:38:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Say no more.
20:39:01 <augur> lol
20:39:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Goddamned client.
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20:39:40 <augur> haha
20:40:31 -!- whtspc has quit (Quit: leaving).
20:41:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
20:41:53 <augur> /whois Phantom_Hoover
20:42:05 <augur> m4|test!
20:42:08 <augur> i know you!
20:42:13 <augur> you cheeky bastard
20:42:17 <Phantom_Hoover> What?
20:42:20 <augur> :P
20:42:48 <Phantom_Hoover> It's m4ltest, which I used to test a theme ages ago and is now my other account on my computer.
20:43:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Fsck, this is publically logged.
20:43:37 <augur> whatever you say
20:43:59 <Phantom_Hoover> I blame oerjan!
20:44:23 <augur> :P
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20:54:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Damn irssi.
20:56:02 <Phantom_Hoover> augur: Let us never speak of this again.
20:59:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, does anyone know of a Brainfuck interpreter in an HDL?
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21:38:26 <impomatic> Hi :-)
21:39:23 <impomatic> A just received an Altera MAX dev board. Any ideas for a cool project?
21:39:49 <impomatic> It's a programmable logic device, 240 elements and 8 kilobits of memory.
21:41:47 <nooga> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.clifford.at/bfcpu/bfcpu.html
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22:03:03 <coppro> it's official. Yesterday, there was unusual trading activity.
22:03:53 -!- nooga has joined.
22:08:00 <Phantom_Hoover> impomatic: Hardware for a non-imperative esolang?
22:08:24 <nooga> like underload processor
22:08:28 <impomatic> What's wrong with imperative? :-)
22:08:42 <Phantom_Hoover> It's what everyone else uses.
22:08:44 <nooga> imperative is boring
22:09:01 <impomatic> Underload would be cool. I wonder if it's possible with only 240 elements
22:09:10 <impomatic> I was just wondering about OISC.
22:09:46 <Phantom_Hoover> OISC is fun, but it's not very esoteric to implement it in hardware.
22:10:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Lazy K might be neat.
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22:31:41 <impomatic> I need to start with something easy though
22:32:30 <Slereah> Lazy K's about the smallest functional language there is.
22:33:24 <impomatic> Looking it up
22:37:47 <nooga> hueh
22:41:38 <Phantom_Hoover> If you're not up to doing Lazy K, perhaps a hardware MARS?
22:41:53 <pikhq> Slereah: Lazy K is too not-minimal.
22:42:07 <pikhq> Namely, it has more than S and K.
22:42:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Write it in Iota or Jot notation.
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23:06:27 * Sgeo assassinates his computer
23:06:44 <coppro> you're still here
23:06:57 <coppro> are you playing Citadels or something?
23:07:03 * Phantom_Hoover delivers Sgeo's power cable
23:07:11 <Sgeo> Citadels?
23:08:46 -!- Leonidas has joined.
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23:08:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Oerjan.
23:09:02 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover.
23:09:44 * oerjan detects no alise
23:10:01 <Phantom_Hoover> alise is gone.
23:10:02 <Sgeo> It's Fri.. oh wait, alise has been here on Fridayness
23:10:18 <Phantom_Hoover> You won't be seeing them for a long lime.
23:10:23 <Sgeo> ?
23:10:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Imagine a lime.
23:10:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Then make it longer.
23:10:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Then see alise at the end of it.
23:11:13 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: don't joke about this, there are serious reasons why alise _could_ disappear.
23:11:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh. Sorry.
23:11:29 <Phantom_Hoover> I plead ignorance.
23:11:31 <oerjan> which is why i am worried when e is not here.
23:11:38 <oerjan> (on weekends)
23:11:57 <Sgeo> Wait, long-term non-weekendness is still a possibility?
23:12:00 <Sgeo> :(:(:(
23:12:01 <coppro> very
23:12:26 <coppro> if e's sectioned, things are bad for everyone
23:12:47 <Sgeo> For some reason, I kind of figured that that was off the table
23:12:53 <oerjan> otoh we could hope he's just taking his advice to rest on fridays
23:13:42 <coppro> Sgeo: why would it be?
23:14:17 <Sgeo> coppro, because my mind just decided that hey, it's been a while since I thought about it, I'll just forget about it!
23:15:34 * coppro assassinates Sgeo's mind
23:16:18 * Phantom_Hoover wonders why everyone else always knows more about this than me.
23:17:18 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: some of it was only told in private channel
23:17:34 <oerjan> although it hasn't exactly been kept entirely out of #esoteric.
23:17:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
23:18:32 <coppro> short summary: alise faces the very real possibility of being put in a mental institution
23:18:44 -!- pikhq has set topic: Alise-alert | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
23:18:46 <Sgeo> coppro, he kind of is there, but only during the week
23:19:04 <coppro> yeah, but he's not formally institutionalized yet
23:19:05 <Phantom_Hoover> I thought he was like 14?
23:19:08 <coppro> (or so we hope)
23:19:10 <coppro> Phantom_Hoover: yes
23:19:20 <pikhq> Sgeo: He 'goes there voluntarily'. And it's a 'school'.
23:19:54 <oerjan> except, he only 'goes voluntarily' because they're threatening to make it non-voluntary otherwise.
23:19:58 <coppro> right
23:20:02 <pikhq> Yes.
23:22:47 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.9/20100315083431]).
23:22:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume that this has happened before.
23:22:59 <oerjan> sure
23:23:12 <oerjan> he was gone for several weeks during the winter
23:23:38 <pikhq> We were worried then, too.
23:24:26 <oerjan> however there isn't any real reason to be worried _yet_ right now
23:24:48 <Phantom_Hoover> When do we worry?
23:25:13 <oerjan> tomorrow, a bit
23:25:24 <pikhq> Tomorrow, we get nervous. Sunday, we become worried. Monday, we start updating the Alise-missing-count.
23:25:34 <oerjan> next weekend, a lot more
23:25:36 <pikhq> Next Friday, we get Agora to declare war.
23:25:42 <oerjan> pikhq: :D
23:26:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Agora?
23:26:27 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: a nomic that several people here play in. also the world's oldest.
23:26:33 <pikhq> Yes, the Nomic of Agora.
23:26:36 <oerjan> (started in 1993)
23:27:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, I've *always* wanted to play a nomic!
23:27:27 * oerjan used to play, but doesn't any longer
23:31:21 <oerjan> <pikhq> Also, if you buy the official line of the PROC, these are all dialects of the same language.
23:32:02 <oerjan> which would be like if a nationalistic EU decided to declare english and german a dialect of the same language
23:32:29 <oerjan> perhaps even english and italian
23:33:00 <Sgeo> We're talking about Chinese?
23:33:03 <oerjan> yeah
23:33:15 <oerjan> PROC = people's republic of china
23:33:46 <Sgeo> For some reason, "PRC" seems more familiar
23:34:01 <oerjan> hm maybe
23:34:10 <pikhq> Sgeo: Yeah.
23:34:17 <oerjan> taiwan is always ROC though, i think
23:34:24 <pikhq> oerjan: Nah, "English and German".
23:34:40 <oerjan> pikhq: ?
23:35:10 <pikhq> The Sinitic languages are more akin to the Germanic languages in the level of relation than the Indoeuropean ones.
23:35:14 <oerjan> ok
23:35:22 <oerjan> i wasn't sure about that
23:35:37 <Phantom_Hoover> English is sort of Germanic, isn't it?
23:35:47 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: *Very* Germanic.
23:36:23 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: 1500 years ago or so they were the same language
23:36:37 <pikhq> oerjan: Bit more than that.
23:36:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.3/20100423140709]).
23:37:02 <pikhq> Though I think 1500 years ago is about when mutual intelligibilty completely stopped.
23:37:05 <oerjan> pikhq: wasn't that about when the anglo-saxon invasion was?
23:37:49 <pikhq> oerjan: The various Germanic languages had already split off into a handful of related languages before they were actually *written*.
23:38:05 <oerjan> i though both english and german descended from saxon
23:38:19 <oerjan> i'm really vague on this though
23:38:56 <pikhq> Proto-Germanic split into East, West, and North Germanic.
23:39:10 <oerjan> yes, but both english and german are west
23:39:15 <oerjan> afair
23:39:23 <pikhq> West Germanic itself split into South Germanic and Anglo-Frisian branches.
23:39:46 <oerjan> ok
23:39:53 <oerjan> *thought
23:40:22 <oerjan> i may just be confused because Sachsen is a part of modern germany
23:40:47 <pikhq> And even back in Old English, English was freaking crazy about its foreign word acquisition.
23:40:57 <oerjan> heh
23:41:43 <pikhq> Because of things like this, English has several cognates *with itself*.
23:42:40 <pikhq> For instance, "shirt" and "skirt" are both cognate.
23:42:52 <pikhq> "shirt" native to English, "skirt" borrowed from Old Norse.
23:42:59 <oerjan> i knew about that one
23:43:16 <oerjan> skjorte and skjørt in norwegian :)
23:43:31 <pikhq> "Right", "rich", "raj", "regalia", "reign", "royal", and "real" are also all cognate.
23:43:52 <pikhq> (Germanic, Celtic, Sanskrit, Latin, French, French, Portuguese origin, respectively)
23:45:20 * oerjan recalls something about ei turning to oi in french, so those two may be from different periods?
23:45:48 <pikhq> English has done that sort of thing a lot.
23:46:02 <pikhq> "chef" and "chief" are both from the same word in French.
23:46:16 <oerjan> and french itself has done it with latin iirc
23:46:54 <pikhq> Also "warranty" and "guarantee".
23:46:55 <pikhq> English *loves* cognates.
23:49:38 <zzo38> In D&D game I want to have a "Merciful to Gibbering Mouthers" feat! I also want to have a metamagic feat that makes it the components are wasted as normal as if the spell has an effect but the normal effect of the spell is suppressed!
23:51:34 <pikhq> zzo38: That sounds like the most bizarre metamagic feat ever.
23:51:47 <pikhq> What, make it so you can fake-out casting a spell?
23:52:07 <oerjan> <Phantom_Hoover> I blame oerjan! <-- *MWAHAHAHA*
23:52:40 <pikhq> "Holy fuck he just cast wish. Holy fuck he just cast wish. Oh god what do I do what do I do what do I do"
23:52:40 <zzo38> pikhq: Yes, I suppose that's one use.
23:52:46 <pikhq> :P
23:52:49 <zzo38> Yes, like that.
23:52:58 <zzo38> Perhaps other uses can be found, too?
23:53:07 <pikhq> Does it lower the spell level?
23:53:21 <zzo38> I didn't invent such a feat yet, but I suppose it could.
23:53:24 <oerjan> pikhq: i recall zzo38 plays _weird_ D&D. almost no fighting and a lot of trickery, i take.
23:53:45 <oerjan> so such deception would probably fit right in
23:53:45 <pikhq> oerjan: I play *creative* D&D.
23:53:54 <pikhq> We do fights, but in very hilarious ways.
23:54:05 <zzo38> oerjan: Well, you are right about that. My brother likes to fight more than I am, though. I prefer to not fight if I can avoid it.
23:54:14 <pikhq> Octopus on the face. :D
23:55:37 <pikhq> I'm also proud of having bowled a giant turtle into an army.
23:56:07 <Sgeo> No love for Paranoia?
23:56:13 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:57:00 <pikhq> Sgeo: The computer would like to remind you that paranoia is a treasonable offense, and encourages your clone to be more paranoid about paranoia in the future.
23:57:06 <pikhq> *bang*
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23:59:21 <zzo38> Once we did that my brother's character were attack everyone at the same time my character was heal the same guys that were being attacked in this way, and although this combination seem strange, actually this combination worked perfectly in the end. (I also broke the opponent's weapons while they were unconscious)
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