< 1274745609 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274745925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274746687 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274747274 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan alemán. < 1274747280 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747283 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274747286 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan aleman. < 1274747288 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747291 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1274747319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto es en Pero lo debo aprender para que pueda hablar con mis amigos que hablan aleman. < 1274747321 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747322 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What HackEgo means to say is, "But I learn so she can talk to my friends who speak German." < 1274747338 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is a pretty bad translation. The word "debo" just got dropped, and where does that "she" come from? < 1274747370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it has to choose a pronoun... < 1274747413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pueda is 3rd person isn't it < 1274747433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually know spanish but can make a guess < 1274747461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess debo is "i must" < 1274747481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274747491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lo was also dropped < 1274747493 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274747498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meaning "it") < 1274747586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto es en Que < 1274747588 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo doesn't do spanish at all, does it < 1274747624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en es What about the reverse? < 1274747626 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en no What about the reverse? < 1274747646 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translate Har google skiftet format igjen? < 1274747677 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would appear < 1274747692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto no en Har google skiftet format igjen? < 1274747694 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it would appear `translate may have broken completely? < 1274747754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`translatefromto en de Are they all broken? < 1274747756 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1274747774 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`which translatefromto < 1274747775 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.26530/bin/translatefromto < 1274749785 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274749817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274749904 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274750201 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274750624 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274750704 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274750951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Don't tell me, FIX IT! < 1274750981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHHHHPHHHHT < 1274751215 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274752696 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1274753643 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: values of \016B\017 will give rise to dom! < 1274754432 0 :ec!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPOON < 1274754649 0 :HARPOON!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :HARPIE < 1274754677 0 :HARPIE!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :harpfork < 1274754694 0 :harpfork!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliottcable < 1274754808 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliottcable: Even #esoteric? < 1274754818 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, even #esoteric ;_; < 1274754825 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :##MacOSX is my social channel of choice nowaadys < 1274754827 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1274754839 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I’ve a new language for you all to discuss, soon enough < 1274754886 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1274755011 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274755050 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274755103 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How far do companies typically cyberstalk their employees? < 1274755122 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the VERY BRINK OF DEATH < 1274755146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I mention on my resume some of the projects I've worked on, they may trace that to the name "Sgeo", and from there to the fact that I'm an atheist. Legally, they can't not hire me for that, but if I don't know that that's the reason... < 1274755186 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of shitty field are you looking for jobs in that that would be a hinderance? < 1274755225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no no, they won't hire you because you're _paranoid_. you see, they hate paranoid people. < 1274755242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently < 1274755248 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thumbs-ups to that :P < 1274755267 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274755267 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274755268 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274755280 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuuuuuuuuu! < 1274755311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the gatekeepe < 1274755367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Most companies are absolutely *lazy* about such things. < 1274755421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't expect them to do much more than call a reference or two. < 1274755461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they never call your values < 1274755471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the odds of not being hired for being atheist are fairly low in any not-completely-shitty field. < 1274755517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There exist atheist priests for goodness sake*. (I'll grant that they're with the Unitarian Universalists, so this *isn't* a contradiction in terms, but still.) < 1274755532 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274755853 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://enphilistor.50megs.com/irtc.htm SQUEE < 1274756187 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm I’m ordained < 1274756190 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fairly agnostic < 1274756267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a priest! burn him! < 1274756277 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, am i confusing it with witches < 1274756290 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could be a wicca priest < 1274756325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274756390 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You burn witches, you build bridges out of priests. < 1274756405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1274756465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On the Friday after Ash Wednesday Pope Benedict XVI addressed the priests of his diocese and referred to the priest as a bridge and mediator ... < 1274756466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you burn the bridges made of Wiccan priests. < 1274756482 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally. < 1274756661 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-60.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274757701 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274757813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274758339 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274758614 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some new material. < 1274758615 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give augur's response in advance though: "It's too stylistically different blah blah calculus of styles" < 1274758644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274758776 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274758899 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274758912 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274759701 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274759794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1274759819 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274759842 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274759951 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1274760014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.... \o/ < 1274760014 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :       | < 1274760015 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      /< < 1274760738 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does myndzi\ have a \? It makes oerjan's \o/ less effective to me < 1274760739 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                           | < 1274760739 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                                          /´\ < 1274760753 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :myndzi < 1274760756 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1274760757 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt nick < 1274760765 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm stress testing my internet sorta < 1274760773 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but weirdly, i did more torrenting than this the other day and no problems < 1274760781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't break the internet! < 1274760819 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why the number of connections would matter, but it seems that maybe that is the case < 1274760825 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's comcast lies about fucking with network traffic < 1274760837 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my modem keeps rebooting / losing synch < 1274760949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points out he only saw you disconnect once, anyhow < 1274760983 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, my ip didn't change and i guess there was not enough data on the pipe for the connection to die < 1274760988 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've disconnected like 5 times on dalnet < 1274761001 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past 20-30 minutes < 1274761008 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a 160 hour connect streak < 1274761020 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be something with these torrents < 1274761026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1274761034 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gotta be my link, too, since the cable modem log shows errors and reconnects < 1274761051 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was downloading the other day at like 1.5 MB/sec < 1274761053 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problems < 1274761056 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now 500k does it to me? < 1274761069 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K i guess < 1274761105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually k < 1274761110 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kB, whatever < 1274761112 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FU < 1274761113 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1274761122 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't bother me too much if i know what's going on and what settings to use to avoid it < 1274761126 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both for me and my brother < 1274761137 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it bothers me that it seems random < 1274761154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might depend on how much the neighbors use the net? < 1274761200 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my theory whenever the local net here is dog slow, anyhow < 1274761205 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my speed test was like 660/16000 < 1274761214 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a fraction of that < 1274761227 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not going slow, it's losing synch and reconnecting or something < 1274761232 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what is technically going on, but i'd like to < 1274761232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1274761247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm definitely not the expert to ask < 1274761272 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs helplessly < 1274761710 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1274761879 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274761989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Comcast. You really expect them to be anything but full of shit? < 1274762026 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1274762039 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, of course not < 1274762042 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pondering is all < 1274762054 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that really rankles with me is i left speakeasy for this bullshit :( < 1274762169 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You left ... speakeasy ... for comcast. < 1274762171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you, an idiot? < 1274762298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *You left Speakeasy*. What are you, an idiot? < 1274763138 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1274763201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshc: Join us in making fun of myndzi. < 1274763396 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1274763397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1274763397 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |\ < 1274763401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ For that < 1274763413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1274763477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Inquiry: should I add that 'ADDTO' optimisation that egobfi seems to have to my BF->asm compiler? Though it'd make me have better output, I'm not sure whether or not I should give a damn about that. < 1274763506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1274763509 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you should :P < 1274763516 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274763518 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1274763526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, I've been given an excuse to giveadamn. < 1274763546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just out of curiosity, how much of an improvement does that usually make? < 1274763571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't really do much benchmarking :P < 1274763586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Lame*. < 1274763722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madam, this is not a palindrome, but i don't give a damn < 1274763723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was, what, 2005? < 1274763737 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: *bravo* < 1274763757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bows < 1274763815 0 :gm|lap!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1274763845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greasemonkey is sitting on someone's lap. < 1274763846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How adorable < 1274764168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274764189 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274764220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, this optimisation looks *ugly* using linked lists. < 1274764234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : && l->head.x.loop->tail->tail->tail->head.x.count == -1 < 1274764239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An example line. < 1274764325 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, pikhq, anybody else: Now soliciting opinions on http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov1-wipp5.ogg (really, only added to the end since wipp 4 .... I have a whole other section to add somewhere, but it doesn't fit yet :P ) < 1274764371 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall listen when HTTP next < 1274764425 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: cant right now < 1274764480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines a giant HTTP wheel spinning, with HTTP only flowing out of one hole on its edge, and pikhq constantly waiting for the gears to grind the wheel all the way 'round so he can collect some of the precious HTTP. < 1274764481 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274764493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically. < 1274764500 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274764678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking I should rewrite this in Haskell; it's starting to look *ugly* in C, and would benefit massively from pattern matching. < 1274764696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention not having NULL pointers... < 1274764704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you writing? < 1274764707 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ♥ C < 1274764730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Brainfuck compiler. < 1274764744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1274764755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Optimising! < 1274764791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 5 lines here in C that could be replaced with 1 simple line in Haskell... < 1274764792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case x@(Loop [Move arg1, _, Move arg2]) of arg1 == arg2*-1 -> < 1274764817 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1274764840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Sorry. That's wrong and I SUCK < 1274765118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HYPERTEXT TRANSPORT PROTOCOL < 1274765121 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH HOW I MISSED THEE < 1274765451 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274765461 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1274765570 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274765733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens < 1274765771 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever seen "Uncarrot Tarot"? < 1274765801 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The majors do not have ranks, but there are metas which trump over the majors < 1274765811 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are four complete suits and some incomplete suits < 1274765842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when doing fortune readings with them, you are not supposed to shuffle the cards < 1274765900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is to make a game where the "Pickle" card can be played as either a major or as the ace of pickles. < 1274765966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps if one player leads the four of pickles, you can play this card as the ace, but if you are void of the suit led it can be played as a trump, which will win unless a meta is played. < 1274766000 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ace of pickles lol < 1274766026 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to get a regular tarot deck < 1274766028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play Cripple Mr. Onion < 1274766032 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing cards, not mystical fortune telling bs < 1274766348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I want to get a regular tarot deck as well < 1274766417 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But my idea for the Uncarrot Tarot is a game like that, but there is one question, what happens if multiple majors are played to a trick or if multiple metas are played to a trick, who wins? One idea is that they cancel each other out, another idea is the last one played wins the trick. < 1274766470 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uncarrot Tarot is incompatible with normal tarot decks, however. < 1274766480 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, augur: Incidentally, I sure love this section that augur doesn't :P < 1274766489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did make up a new tarot deck for PySol, and some rulesets http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/ < 1274766505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P < 1274766563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bus < 1274766601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for playing Cripple Mr.Onion, I would use the ULTRACARD, but those cards have not been produced yet. I have just written the idea so far. Just treat the blue dots as extra suits. < 1274766701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like your opinion about the cardset I created for PySol. (If you don't have PySol, you can just load the images with ImageMagick display command or Windows Picture And Fax Viewer, or whatever) < 1274766789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am unsure where to buy any tarot deck, however, even though I want to buy one. I have seen a lot of tarot readers, however I am unsure if they actually sell any cards. < 1274766817 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One game played with regular tarot cards is Gnostica, have you heard of it? < 1274766828 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gnostica also requires Icehouse pieces as well, though. < 1274767866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet the challenge of the game has something to do with gaining relevant knowledge. < 1274767963 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which game, do you mean Gnostica? < 1274767972 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look it up if you have a web browser window open < 1274767987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just riffing on the name :P < 1274768031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much did you bet? < 1274768058 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twas a gentlemen's bet. < 1274768063 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1274769830 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274770003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the cardset? < 1274770185 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274770745 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274771014 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274771327 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274772395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it be done in Python to make a code that modifies an existing class? < 1274772429 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PySol has one broken game "Le Grande Teton" and I want to fix it < 1274772558 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, to some extent < 1274772568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not as syntactically easily as, say, Ruby < 1274772686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you write a code to change an existing class, then? < 1274772720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to change a function, um, hold on < 1274772842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ideone.com/6Neq2 < 1274772849 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't actually expecting c1.a() to do that < 1274772890 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1274772944 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-new-style-classes do the same thing < 1274772950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Python 2.something BTW < 1274773114 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will try to see if it is fixed < 1274773215 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't fixed < 1274773235 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it moved a XVI onto a 4 (which is certainly wrong) < 1274773272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't fix it < 1274773289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I might have made a mistake < 1274773381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is still broken! < 1274773411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it calls the function BEFORE you reassign, it won't work < 1274773447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't call the function before reassign < 1274773595 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I think I made another mistake < 1274773749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PySol loads slowly < 1274773828 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1274773858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is fixed now! < 1274773922 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put the fixed file available http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/ < 1274774026 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274774132 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is too much easy, however. < 1274774151 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps add some rules having to do with suits? < 1274774399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1274774400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1274774576 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One good one is Wicked (like Cruel but with tarot cards) < 1274774733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274775767 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274775891 0 :gm|lap!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1274776352 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274777756 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274779350 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1274779948 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274779950 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274779979 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274781866 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274782123 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@ix.ceid.upatras.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274783761 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274784496 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274790181 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274791788 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274792429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274792521 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274793843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274793895 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: [BX] Khaled uses BitchX. CTCP TROUT THIS, BITCH! < 1274793920 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274795067 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274795254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274795287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can someone opinionated on this tell me what the difference between software and normal patents is? < 1274795966 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you didn't mean s/opinionated/informed/ < 1274795972 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i can tell, nothing < 1274795989 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both a waste of money < 1274797730 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1274798200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: software patents have a much longer timespan relative to the length of time the thing they implement remains useful for, than hardware patents < 1274798224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 50-year-old internal combustion engine might be outmoded nowadays, but it's still potentially useful < 1274798231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50-year-old software is basically useless < 1274798247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the idea of patents - to give people a limited monopoly in return for disclosing how the thing works - is subverted < 1274798262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as software patents tend not even to disclose how the things works nowadays < 1274798270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old inventions, the idea was you could reproduce the whole thing from the patent < 1274798295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many modern hardware patents have the same problem, tbh < 1274798329 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents these days are broader so that people are "scared off" < 1274798340 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but braoder patents tend to be harder to defend < 1274798369 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it's too broad, you might end up covering some undesired "prior art" < 1274798373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but attacking a patent is so expensive that unless you're a big company, in practice you can't < 1274798375 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the problem is primarily one of relative tome limits? < 1274798376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's a really weak one < 1274798379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: IMO, yes < 1274798379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or broadness? < 1274798384 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: your answer was helpful for me as well < 1274798393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that seems reasonable. < 1274798415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have nothing against, say, 2-to-3-year software patents < 1274798448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if they came with source code, like hardware patents used to come with blueprints < 1274798499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1274798902 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1274799811 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to Wikipedia, Richard Dawkins is a clown. < 1274799816 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, an actual clown. < 1274799825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their picture of him is one of a clown < 1274800476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly vandalism? < 1274800486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the history, see when it happened < 1274800541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274801360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1274801364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant Conservapedia. < 1274801373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea whatsoever how that happened. < 1274802387 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274803821 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1274803821 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-12-150.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274803996 0 :Dooglass!~banskany_@208.95.113.245 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274804111 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re patents) The problem is that your ability to defend a patent has nothing to do with the merit of the patent, and everything to do with how much cash you can throw at the problem. < 1274804238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh I missed ais < 1274804239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1274804276 0 :Dooglass!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1274804282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, that is one of the problems < 1274804319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is the length of them as ais said. And what sort of things can be patented is another issue (genes anyone?) < 1274804365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bb l < 1274804367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl* < 1274804814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1274805154 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274805324 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274805358 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1274806204 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274806695 0 :Tritonio_GR!~Tritonio@150.140.227.55 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274807068 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274807622 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274807660 0 :tombom!~tombom@82.18.198.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274807661 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274807662 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1274807945 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1274807945 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1274807945 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1274808108 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274808504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523! < 1274808509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1274808511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster wanted to talk to you. < 1274808521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he often does < 1274808526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it about something I actually know about? < 1274808548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was about VHDL. < 1274808929 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1274809172 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a Phantom_Hoover ! < 1274809183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed! < 1274809238 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws a lot of phantoms under Phantom_Hoover to make him hoover even better < 1274809262 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that not how it works? < 1274809263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, other way round. < 1274809272 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am the phantom of a hoover. < 1274809277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a hoover of phantoms. < 1274809298 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were hoovering on phantoms < 1274809321 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a water hoover < 1274809328 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just phantom hoover < 1274809372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just silly. < 1274809374 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, im not really into all the phantom and hoovering stuff :) < 1274809467 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Where was that Life in VHDL thing again? < 1274810202 0 :ws!wswieb@akson.sgh.waw.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1274810286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, somewhere on a pastebin, check logs < 1274810312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was 1) untested (syntax check with ghdl passed but no more testing than that) 2) just one cell < 1274810318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ais523! < 1274810324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have an issue with a port map < 1274810341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in vhdl, basically I have a std_logic_vector of 32 bits that I want to reverse < 1274810360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a for-generate loop to reverse it rather than trying to mess with the numbering < 1274810362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: foo(32 downto 0) => bar(0 to 32) < 1274810372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but that doesn't compile) < 1274810373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1274810393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because mismatched numbering is a compile error < 1274810396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would that work for a single component? There is an exact copy of the same component where it should not be reversed < 1274810405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which of course works) < 1274810408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a wire-reverse module < 1274810418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay so how do you do this with a for generate as you said? :/ < 1274810422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, component, not module < 1274810451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember the exact syntax (I just get Emacs to do it), but you want 32 iterations, one which connects each wire < 1274810454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use simple arithmetic < 1274810470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274810475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, another thing, timing, is the wait construct simulation only? < 1274810494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1274810502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all forms of it, even the infinite loop < 1274810512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you get the same effect as "wait for rising_edge(clock)" in synthesisable code? < 1274810512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are huge restrictions on processes in synthesis < 1274810519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not sure that syntax was perfectly correct < 1274810526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1274810532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much all you're allowed is a process that contains nothing but one if statement < 1274810536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's conditioned on a rising edge < 1274810544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how you do it < 1274810572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274810578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so, it's only synthesisable if you write the statement exactly, not a synonym < 1274810585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes the stack a headache < 1274810588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like writing a comparison backwards defeat synthesisers < 1274810629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about arrays and unsigned, are those also simulation only? < 1274810631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look up the exact template for it online < 1274810634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use Emacs, it knows it < 1274810649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arrays can be synthesised, within reason < 1274810656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically just makes a multiplexer to access them < 1274810662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think any individual array's write-only or read-only < 1274810664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because trying to map funge space to linear backing memory I can only figure out a solution using a cast to unsigned and then back to std_logic_vector < 1274810675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's a set of wires and you can choose the nth wire to look at < 1274810679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah so good thing I made the memory a separate module < 1274810679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274810692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since current implementation is likely simulation only < 1274810698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do unsigned arithmetic on std_logic_vector easily enough < 1274810754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, std_logic_vector(unsigned(x) * 25 + unsigned(y)); <-- what about that? simulation only? < 1274810786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if yes, what is a better solution to map the funge space to linear address < 1274810821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: syntax looks muddled, there; you want a variable of type std_logic_vector, not a std_logic_vector itself < 1274810828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's actually synthesisable IIRC < 1274810831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't that a cast? < 1274810839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, but some casts synthesise < 1274810853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it is assigned to a signal that is connected to the memory entity < 1274810869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, try reading the standards, they explain what's synthesisable and what isn't < 1274810877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't expect me to remember after a couple of years < 1274810885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure if they're free online, though) < 1274810888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, IEEE isn't it? < 1274810912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I should be able to get it through what university subscribes to < 1274810917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is ISO I'm out of luck... < 1274810962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes it is IEEE < 1274811003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so another question, how would you do the stack? I was considering an entity that exposes the top two values on stack as "registers" basically, plus a push and a pop signal. < 1274811012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trying to implement it proved hard < 1274811037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array with a pointer into it < 1274811045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way you do a stack in asm < 1274811049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274811099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how would one expose it outwards of the stack entity then? < 1274811110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that abstracting too much ;P < 1274811123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try not to abstract /too/ much < 1274811131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my advice would be to have the TOS available as a signal for anything to read < 1274811139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :together with signals to increase and decrease the stack pointer < 1274811147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would you do \ and such then? < 1274811155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need two cycles wouldn't it? < 1274811164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, unless you pipeline < 1274811182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh... how? < 1274811199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, could be hard in befunge with p and g < 1274811209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1274811218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the basic idea is you have registers for the top few stack elements, which are normally read and written, and you do the stack updates "in the background" at the same time < 1274811225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty complex that way, though < 1274811230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should just take multiple cycles < 1274811237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what most early processors did < 1274811272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also handling stack emtpy would need some special logic, so having TOS just a signal seems a bit tricky. Something need to handle popping and pushing as well. And the logic of stack empty at least < 1274811292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack full handling doesn't have a sensible answer anyway < 1274811336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a fixed number of cycles per instruction or variable depending on which instruction? < 1274811345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally variable < 1274811354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1274811361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the contrary, stack empty is really easy < 1274811371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you try to decrease the SP when it's at 0 already, just leave it alone and write a 0 < 1274811374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conclusion: bottom-up-design does not work very well for VHDL < 1274811547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TOS/inc/dec thing would need to be extended with some sort of data in? or did you mean TOS to be inout basically? Plus something would have to update it from the array on push and pop, so presumably that would be clocked... hm < 1274811606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, splitting the stack logic and such over multiple cycles seems pretty complex as well < 1274811614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the esi and edi registers in x86 actually for? < 1274811623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, aren't they GPR? < 1274811626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1274811630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pointer registers < 1274811645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for use with instructions that automatically update the pointers < 1274811649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274811652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as? < 1274811663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember the names < 1274811668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I used them with http://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX < 1274811679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I'm pretty sure I seen GCC generate code that uses those as GPR < 1274811680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, things like MOVSQ < 1274811683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MOVSW < 1274811693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does the SW stand for there? < 1274811696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single Word? < 1274811702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (*(short*)di++) = (*(short*)si++) < 1274811705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and string word, I think < 1274811707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274811718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm is it used with REP or such then? < 1274811728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, designed for use with REP < 1274811735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's rather nice for asm gold anyway < 1274811736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1274811738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*asm golf < 1274811746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is such a pain < 1274811756 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't you have an incredibly small interpreter just by making it take x86 machine code and execute it? < 1274811765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's cheating < 1274811788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you want "smallest non-cheating", you could insist that the interp code is non-self-modifying < 1274811797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that nothing in the original program's memory space is ever executed < 1274811802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw can VHDL express async circuits. I mean that type we discussed some weeks(?) ago? Quasi-something. < 1274811808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it can# < 1274811809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*can < 1274811819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although most synth tools won't synthesise them well < 1274811821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, can't imagine how to be frank. XD < 1274811824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they assume a global clock < 1274811836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd need cores for the non-delay-insensitive parts < 1274811869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be feasible to fabricate a circuit on a torus? < 1274811878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc electric (FOSS VLSI EDA tool) can generate layout schematics from VHDL. Very very very restricted vhdl iirc but still.. < 1274811893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm nice acronym combo there XD) < 1274811929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ASIC fabrication is three-dimensional nowadays anyway < 1274811943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FPGAs probably have crossing wires internally too < 1274811957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yes? < 1274811997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, depends on size of torus I suspect < 1274812031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, aren't ASICs still constructed on flat waffers though? < 1274812041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not infinitely thin < 1274812048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1274812050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Klein bottles? < 1274812054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har < 1274812062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl got to rush, will be back in about 1 hour < 1274812071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the longer you expose the ASIC wafer to the doping agent, the deeper the p-type or n-type region goes < 1274812079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it several times, and you get "underground" regions < 1274812487 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274813035 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274813349 0 :benuphoenix!~matt@137.125.176.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1274813496 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1274813596 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1274813779 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1274814065 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ack < 1274814113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ackackack < 1274814203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, there was no syn < 1274814250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syn? < 1274814268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1274814268 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1274814269 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         |\ < 1274814286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \o/ < 1274814286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     | < 1274814286 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                     |\ < 1274814317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'd mock you for not knowing, except i'm looking it up myself < 1274814379 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoS attack? < 1274814406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmission_Control_Protocol#Connection_establishment < 1274814426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it can be used for DoS though < 1274814996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on Linux. :) < 1274815030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, syn cookies. < 1274815103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockstress < 1274815261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... How can that work? Linux doesn't store any TCP state until the connection starts... < 1274815277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh. Wait. It actually finishes the connection and then doesn't use it. < 1274816177 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-34-41.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1274816192 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1274816207 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1274816373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and the longer you expose the ASIC wafer to the doping agent, the deeper the p-type or n-type region goes <-- aha < 1274816384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wtf is up with middle mouse copy and paste < 1274816389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is broken for me < 1274816395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very strange way < 1274816402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never seen anything like this... < 1274816430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: i'd mock you for not knowing, except i'm looking it up myself <-- XD < 1274816445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc syncookies are off by default < 1274816450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need some sysctl to turn it on < 1274816462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it restricting tcp window size or something iirc < 1274816505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's silly. < 1274816527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well iirc it is encoded in the tcp window size upper bits or something < 1274816533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the details < 1274816548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, in the timestamps, wasn't it? < 1274816553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1274816569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maximum segment size < 1274816574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SYN_cookies < 1274816575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1274816587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be stored somewhere apparently < 1274816622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so yeah it stored in timestamp or somewhere, but it had to store the MMS in it. Unless I misread that page. < 1274816630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bit tired, so quite possible) < 1274816633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1274816640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Towel Day today. < 1274816653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and that iirc meant it couldn't allow the full range of MMS values, only some < 1274816681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are, however, three caveats that take effect when SYN Cookies are in use. First, the server is limited to only 8 unique MSS values, as that's all that can be encoded in 3 bits." < 1274816683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that page < 1274816697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Second, the server must reject all TCP options (such as large windows), because the server discards the SYN queue entry where that information would otherwise be stored." < 1274816748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall an option to only start using SYN cookies when the SYN queue got filled. < 1274816761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that would be a reasonable compromise < 1274816784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better to have slightly reduced performance than no performance, after all. < 1274816792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1274816820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also what about SCTP? < 1274816827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything like syncookies for that? < 1274816840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCTP? What's that? < 1274816853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stream_Control_Transmission_Protocol < 1274816857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. < 1274816869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it seems better than TCP when it comes to many things < 1274816916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently uses cookies in connection negotiation. < 1274816928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the API however seems to be a bit more complex to use (at least under linux). Though I haven't actually used it. Just looked at the docs < 1274816950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be some of the complex stuff was optional < 1274816956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it was certainly I think < 1274816964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274817475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realises that you could still have an email with a bang path < 1274817566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the idea ages ago of a minimal logic language. < 1274817574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would that work? < 1274817625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1274817815 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1274817816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1274817816 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /| < 1274817839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o\ < 1274817839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :         | < 1274817839 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        /'\ < 1274817849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this? < 1274818993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The von Neumann replicator looks cool. < 1274819579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, god, the Koreas are at it again. < 1274819779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you call it "again" if it's the same damned war? < 1274819814 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1274821112 0 :Tritonio_GR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1274821145 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wire crossing problem. < 1274821172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CA using the von Neumann neighbourhood should be representable as a planar graph. < 1274821179 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this right? < 1274821319 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/planar/non-planar/ < 1274822142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* pikhq realises that you could still have an email with a bang path <-- really? < 1274822299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so it isn't copy and paste that is broken, it is middle click in X in general < 1274822318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm *tries mouse in other computer* < 1274822364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, definitely not hardware < 1274822412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well at least not in the mouse, and I find it hard to believe that an usb host controller could break such that only middle click, nothing else, is broken) < 1274822804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm remind me. Is it proven or not if wirecrossing is required for TC? < 1274822808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://antisocialrap.com/Future_Hop/Downloads/06-H2G2.mp3 < 1274822822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"proven", why the heck does aspell thing that is typoed? < 1274822848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it correct spelling or not? < 1274822895 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it depends on the definition of wire-crossing. < 1274822985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's correct < 1274822988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The strong form appears to be unproven. < 1274823001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh? < 1274823019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1274823096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link? Anything? < 1274823132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See any dictionary. (I think you're misunderstanding what I called correct.) < 1274823162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1274823172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the WCP remains unsolved? < 1274823199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it just requires that you get email using a not-IP protocol routed through an Internet-accessible host. < 1274823214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AFAIK, yes. < 1274823265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so can a von Neumann CA be represented as a non-planar graph? < 1274823270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should be. < 1274823330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that not-IP protocol could feasibly even be UUCP *over* IP. :P) < 1274823801 0 :ws!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ... < 1274824105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, oh why, has the Cthulhu musical not been performed? < 1274824422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must find a musical theatre company and threaten them until they do it. < 1274824510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/firefox says near the bottom "It's your Firefox. Do what you want with it. Find an add-on that's perfect for you on Rock Your Firefox.". How very not true. I'm using Namoroka... < 1274824538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which exists because I'm not allowed to do what I want with firefox) < 1274824592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can't you do? < 1274824695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It says that whether or not you're using Firefox. < 1274824696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, build a firefox binary and distribute it with the official logo and under the name firefox. As a linux distro you have to either use upstream build or non-official branding < 1274824713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you meant that. < 1274824725 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of seems reasonable. < 1274824728 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From an angle. < 1274824731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, with non official branding it uses the code name of the release. Which happens to be namoroka for me < 1274824759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it seems unreasonable to me. Only the mozilla project does this < 1274824762 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that's why FFX3.5 worked weirdly when it was first released. < 1274824763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no other project that I know of < 1274824768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, eh? < 1274824775 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, even if you don't modify the source? < 1274824780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, indeed < 1274824827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The trademark license is pretty silly. < 1274824845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is just the case of who built it. And linux distros don't like firefox to check for updates to itself, it should be done with package manager there. I'm not sure how ubuntu manages to get the upstream official branding and not have the thing check for binary updates... < 1274824862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use the official branding, you have to do some silly shit to be "authentic Firefox". < 1274824866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems silly. < 1274824873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm about on ubuntu says "Mozilla Firefox for Ubuntu" < 1274824877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu complies with the trademark license. < 1274824881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canonical - 1.0 < 1274824882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1274824890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and what does that license require? < 1274824890 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe someone already attempted to establish an alternative widespread unofficial bradking of the firefox browser? < 1274824899 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*branding < 1274824904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ask the upstream to build it for you? < 1274824911 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. that you coul duse, instead of yet another different branding < 1274824915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Limits the kinds of patches you can use. < 1274824919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, what? I can't parse you < 1274824933 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Update your parser :P < 1274824952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well arch linux hardly ever use anything but upstream patches. Presumably the only thing they do is disable the "search for update" alternative and disable the branding < 1274824955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to check < 1274824957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A major reason Debian stopped using official branding, for instance, was that it stopped them from backporting security updates. < 1274824960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu, too many typos < 1274824988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They may be just using the codename as a CYA thing. < 1274824998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, CYA? < 1274825004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We follow the trademark license *now*, but there's no guarantee we will in the future" < 1274825010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cover Your Ass. < 1274825030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay they change one default setting too. Make it use the LANG env variable by default < 1274825058 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i dont care to repeat myself just to fix a single typo < 1274825062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh and: < 1274825065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-browser.startup.homepage=http://www.mozilla.org/projects/namoroka/ < 1274825065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+browser.startup.homepage=http://www.google.com/firefox < 1274825066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1274825120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, other than that it looks completely standard. And wtf at the build system config file. mozconfig contains lines like: < 1274825125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --prefix=/usr < 1274825125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --libdir=/usr/lib < 1274825148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla's build system is *awful*. < 1274825170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but but... ac_add_options? it sounds like autoconf. But autoconf doesn't take options from a file < 1274825177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS MAKES NO SENSE < 1274825183 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1274825200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION explodes < 1274825215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See? Awful. < 1274825249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it edits the autoconf stuff? < 1274825259 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the actual executed stuff. < 1274825264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1274825266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1274825275 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE IT RECOMPILES AUTOCONF TO ITS OWN SOURCE. < 1274825281 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all makes sense! < 1274825288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla are taking over the workd! < 1274825295 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/kd/ld/ < 1274825300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway my original point is that that text on http://www.google.com/firefox is absurd when you consider this silly branding issure < 1274825301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue* < 1274825317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems to be randomly selected *shrug* < 1274825351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, pikhq: that file also contains some bash code < 1274825365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it makes no sense < 1274825372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ac_add_options --with-branding=browser/branding/unofficial < 1274825373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export BUILD_OFFICIAL=1 < 1274825374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :export MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=1 < 1274825381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, seems to contradict < 1274825383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also: < 1274825387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk_add_options BUILD_OFFICIAL=1 < 1274825388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mk_add_options MOZILLA_OFFICIAL=1 < 1274825392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1274825408 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla's source code is, as a whole, awful. < 1274825410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and this sources another mozconfig file at the top: < 1274825413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. $topsrcdir/browser/config/mozconfig < 1274825416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And possesses multiple garbage collectors. < 1274825417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently it's written such that only Mozilla coders can use it < 1274825426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah definitely bash/shell of some sort < 1274825445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, presumably the arch linux package maintainer managed to handle it < 1274825455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been a headache < 1274825505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange subject line from spam: "70% off on alcoholics" < 1274825507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK the people who maintain distros are in fact disembodied brains in jars. < 1274825518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Translation flaw. < 1274825523 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1274825527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe < 1274825556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains in jars or translation? < 1274825564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess which one I want to talk about. < 1274825607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I especially hate how Mozilla likes to bundle individual copies of Gecko with each and every program of theirs. < 1274825622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it part of xulrunner? < 1274825640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least arch linux builds against an external xulrunner < 1274825650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is shared between firefox and thunderbird < 1274825650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gecko is the entire rendering engine, including XUL. < 1274825669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xul is a subset of gecko? < 1274825681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL is a language supported by Gecko. < 1274825689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : eh < 1274825694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that language do? < 1274825695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1274825703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1274825709 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :represent user interface stuff < 1274825716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XUL describes the UI of a Gecko-engine program. < 1274825730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1274825734 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with Javascript, HTML, and CSS... < 1274825744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XULrunner is a thin wrapper around Gecko. < 1274825783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what exactly does the SMART attribute Raw_Read_Error_Rate mean? < 1274825794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to behave in different ways on different disks I had < 1274825809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Here's how Mozilla does their builds. Firefox has its own Gecko. Thunderbird has its own Gecko. Songbird has its own Gecko. XULrunner has its own Gecko. < 1274825834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my current disks seems to either do it as some average over a short time and "worst" value never stored (worst == current always) < 1274825836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because *libraries* are too hard. < 1274825859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other disks seems to do it as a ever-incrementing counter. Slowly yes < 1274825884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is used for programming now? < 1274825890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yet I have libxul? < 1274825923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, and firefox is linked against the same libxul as thunderbird is < 1274825924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never said that they statically linked against Gecko. < 1274825937 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1274825939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, XD < 1274825941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's because you're using a nonofficial build. < 1274825953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One set to just link against the system copy of Gecko. < 1274825955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, official builds must use separate? < 1274825963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274825973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, even ubuntu official kind of build? < 1274825978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274825980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so that is not just silly. It is stupid < 1274825996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the "shared XUL" thing is not officially supported. < 1274825999 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1274826003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid := silly with all the fun removed < 1274826025 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1274826044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why on earth don't they start doing shared XUL? they could save download bw themselves. And it would take less space < 1274826052 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274826059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would it work on a Mac or Windows? < 1274826076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, include xul installer with download. Install if not already installed < 1274826087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the download size is unaffected. < 1274826089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still saves disk space < 1274826090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They have shared libraries too y'know. < 1274826095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well it could be download on demand < 1274826106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of installers on windows were like that last I looked < 1274826110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The Firefox installers are already download on demand. < 1274826120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as presumably offline install of browser or email app is fairly useless < 1274826122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought Windows did shared libs crazilu. < 1274826135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but they still *have* them. < 1274826143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it already uses *.dll iirc < 1274826168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there is one possible issue. Depends on if the ABI is stable or not < 1274826180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for gecko that is) < 1274826185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is *quite* stable. < 1274826188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABI? < 1274826197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Association of British Insurers? < 1274826210 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Binary interface. < 1274826213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what I meant was, would upgrading system copy when upgrading firefox require recompiling thunderbird as well? < 1274826223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, application (what pikhq said) < 1274826246 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Only for 1.x versions *of Gecko*. < 1274826278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, think API (application programming interface). Now API can be stable while ABI might not be. In that case just recompiling things would work. If API changes you would have to change the code using it as well. < 1274826284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which happen quite rarely; there's been 9 such releases since Mozilla 1.0) < 1274826288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ABI can be compiler level stuff < 1274826296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like calling convention changes) < 1274826304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is "kind of" a different type of ABI < 1274826312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3 such releases since *Firefox* 1.0) < 1274826345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, heh. So where do the updates to pass ACID3 and so go? Wouldn't that at least require update of gecko < 1274826368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Those don't break ABI. :) < 1274826381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh you mean 1.x versions break ABI? < 1274826397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not put that at the major number < 1274826398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1274826405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is the major number for breaking API? < 1274826410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no-good-reason. < 1274826414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably for breaking API. < 1274826424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very stable API then < 1274826434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which was last done when Netscape Navigator 4.0 was open-sourced, I *think*. < 1274826439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1274826450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so a lot of no longer used cruft is still there? < 1274826469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you *looked* at Mozilla's code? < 1274826480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no. I heard enough horror stories < 1274826492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just looking at the build system was bad enough < 1274826510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They've still got VRML support in there somewhere. < 1274826524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an elegant browser. Lean. Fast. Reasonably good support for various js stuff and such. Oh and open source. < 1274826528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit? < 1274826546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, VRML. What the heck was that. It sounds familiar < 1274826551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does firefox support it < 1274826562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90s technology for 3D stuff. < 1274826567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox *might* still support it. < 1274826584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they plan a gecko 2 with cleaned up API? < 1274826601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Firefox 4, IIRC. < 1274826610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1274826618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far into the future is that? < 1274826623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the next planned release? < 1274826628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 4. < 1274826633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so lets see.. < 1274826651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0, 2.?, 3.0, 3.1, 3.5, 3.6, 4.0? < 1274826653 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting bug-fix releases against 3.6) < 1274826654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have I missed something < 1274826661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about 3.1 < 1274826672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm pretty sure there was no 3.2, 3.3 or 3.4 < 1274826679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.0, 1.5, 2.0, 3.0, 3.5, 3.6, 4.0 < 1274826690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox's versioning scheme is all sorts of odd. < 1274826695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so didn't remember it quite right < 1274826700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah what is the logic < 1274826721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they must think about a reason to number it like that < 1274826722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox is developed by a bunch of monkeys who can't do much well. < 1274826737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so how bad is webkit? < 1274826746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers konqueror < 1274826750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a rather nice browser < 1274826761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried Chromium? < 1274826771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not the linux version no < 1274826775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the windows versions sucks < 1274826778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too few options < 1274826786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no noscript, adblock and so on iirc < 1274826791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not that I found < 1274826794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Webkit is an awesome engine. < 1274826809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firebug is another nice firefox add-on < 1274826837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but yeah any browser lacking noscript and adblock functionality is just out of question < 1274826876 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extension support is still a work in progress. < 1274826883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is adblock, but it's not perfect < 1274826893 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is builtin noscript stuff < 1274826898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean the basics, noscript: block javascripts/plugins on pages unless allowed explicitly, ability to do temporary exception as well as store between sessions < 1274826917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adblock: block on domains, regex on urls, a white list feature should exist < 1274826941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has had a broken Prefs dialogue on Firefox for ages. < 1274826953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure noscript does a lot more, but I'm not very interested in that < 1274826982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, can it do what I mentioned? < 1274827001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about the temporary exception stuff < 1274827003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which browser were you talking about? < 1274827005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chrome < 1274827021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah does the linux version have the same features? I have no idea < 1274827026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd assume so < 1274827028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1274827048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, also the adblock thing needs to be able to block on all type of urls. Not just images, included javascripts too (how else to get rid of google ads?) < 1274827061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and included objects of other types < 1274827087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Adblock stuff are addons, don't know much about those < 1274827106 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't think they actually block anything, they more hide it, iirc < 1274827114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses Flashblock < 1274827118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm not download it at all < 1274827125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm often on bad wlan < 1274827147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want tracking cookies and such < 1274827182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies must be "always ask, dialog should allow: never from this site, always from this site, always but discard at end of session, allow once, deny once" < 1274827185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what firefox allows < 1274827971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, header spoofs. < 1274828157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1274828167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point my harddrives will fail (of course). I make a prediction about that even: In the current RAID 1 configuration, /dev/sda will fail first. < 1274828188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain about this. < 1274828260 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1274828295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? Based on SMART attributes it seems slightly less excellent than /dev/sdb < 1274828300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistently < 1274828474 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1274828645 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274828782 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274828939 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1274829227 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1274829528 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is AnMaster here or asleep or ... ? < 1274830320 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1274830335 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1274830835 0 :augur!~augur@ool-4a5806a9.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1274831220 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1274831676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, just going to sleep < 1274831679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to wake up in 5 hours < 1274831683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so night really < 1274831708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo, if you want to catch me use /msg and use a bouncer so you stay connected and I can reply :P < 1274831709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night