00:00:32 There's a log of everyone who's walked off the edge of the world 00:00:36 I'm emailing it to myse 00:00:37 f 00:00:48 oh that sucicide 00:00:50 that's only temporary 00:00:52 *suicide 00:01:12 night 00:01:14 The first suicide was Tue Apr 19 00:43:48 1994 PDT 00:01:17 Night AnMaster 00:01:22 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:01:28 The last was... this month 00:01:43 Ok, Alec is addicted to walking off the edge of the world 00:01:53 xD 00:02:11 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: What's beyond this edge... AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA). 00:02:33 http://pastie.org/986515 00:04:10 Just sent em a mail 00:04:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:04:44 -!- comex has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:06:01 http://pastie.org/986517 00:06:10 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:06:20 -!- cheater99 has joined. 00:07:10 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:09:44 * Sgeo_ decides it's a good thing he didn't try 'I want to leave LambdaMOO for three months' with quotes 00:11:15 I'm going to do something unprecedented. 00:11:23 Anyone want to help me code this music daemon? 00:11:44 -!- Oranjer1 has left (?). 00:12:26 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:12:46 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:14:30 -!- uorygl has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:14:34 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:15:21 -!- Tritonio_GR has joined. 00:16:44 You step into the great gap to the west, your eyes shut tight. When you open them, you're back in the Real World again. Enjoy it. 00:17:16 what 00:17:22 did you suicide :P 00:17:59 No, just read the source 00:18:20 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:18:40 I should be able to make a simulation 00:19:56 If you don't delete your mail, you can't walk off the edge 00:21:09 lol 00:22:53 Awesome. There is a pistol for Russian Roulette 00:23:03 Shooting it can newt you for 1-6 days 00:29:52 pikhq_: how likely do you think it is for a track title to have a tab in it? 00:31:05 alise: Not particularly. 00:31:41 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:31:58 pikhq_: Hmm... but if I'm supporting arbitrary Vorbis* metadata... 00:32:02 *Yes, it's actually Vorbis-specific. 00:32:06 So much for the Ogg container. 00:33:17 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:33:31 pikhq_: Oh, I know! I'll use XML! 00:33:39 alise: I thought that metadata was stuck in an Ogg Text stream? 00:33:45 *ugh* 00:33:57 Apparently not 00:34:03 Also, now I have two problems! (I'm not actually using XML) 00:34:36 pikhq_: Also, although FLAC files work inside an Ogg container, very little software supports this, and FLAC has its own metadata format! This is because FLAC wasn't always a Xiph.Org project!~ 00:34:42 FUN FUN FUCK ME IN THE ASS! 00:34:45 I hate software 00:34:58 alise: So: Ogg sucks. 00:35:09 Yep. It's a container that... just contains. Literally. Nothing else. 00:35:22 Urgh; that's such a pain. 00:35:37 And if only Matroska didn't have an obsession with XML. 00:35:55 Vorbis metadata, called Vorbis comments, support metadata tags similar to those implemented in the ID3 standard for MP3. The metadata is stored in a vector of eight-bit-clean strings of arbitrary length and size. The size of the vector and the size of each string in bytes is limited to 232-1 (about 4.3 billion, or any positive integer that can be expressed in 32 bits). This vector is stored in the second header packet that begins a Vorbis bitstream.[43] 00:36:04 MY GOD, LIMITED TO 4.3 BILLION BYTES. 00:36:27 pikhq_: I didn't know Matroshka used XML. It's always worked well for me. 00:36:36 We should all use Matroshka. 00:36:58 Actually, this makes me wonder why there aren't any good standardised command-with-binary-arguments specs. 00:37:01 What about WebM? 00:37:03 ASN.1 does that doesn't it? Ew. 00:37:10 Sgeo_: no. 00:37:22 it only contains vp8 and vorbis. and is a sideset of matroshka 00:37:27 it's an insane subset of matroshka, with its own shit! yay! 00:37:32 I AM SO HAPPY. 00:37:45 alise: It's some binary XML... Thing. 00:39:23 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 00:39:47 x := ! "\1";; msg := x {"\1" x}+ "\r\n";; 00:39:57 xs should be preprocessed afterwards 00:40:00 to replace: 00:40:08 \2\2 with a \1 00:40:12 and \2\3 with a \2 00:40:14 Tada. 00:40:19 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:41:59 Although \2 is kind of ugly. 00:42:06 But then \255 is more common, isn't it? 00:42:09 UTF-8 and all. 00:42:22 pikhq_: I'd just use \0, but ... C. 00:43:10 "The IPC protocol is best documented in the source. But we encourage all developers to use the clientlib, is there something that the clientlib doesn't support or you don't like. Talk to us first before you start reversing our protocol." 00:43:13 Who needs documentation. 00:48:05 pikhq_: PUKE! xmms2 uses glib! 00:48:14 I think I died. I'm outside the Pearly Gates 00:48:41 It is my DUTY to create something betts! 00:48:46 *better than this 00:50:51 Happy June! 00:50:56 Or something! 00:54:37 -!- calamari has joined. 00:54:38 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:56:14 -!- uorygl has joined. 00:57:27 uorygl, join LambdaMOO 00:57:40 Hmm, it seems that I am in need of a tag-processing library. 00:57:42 Call it graffiti. 00:58:12 We could make an esotericers's hangout 00:58:17 A BF machine 01:01:45 alise: glib! AAARGHTHATMUSTDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIE 01:01:46 ALSODIE 01:02:09 pikhq_: Don't you like the soft feeling of a GObject class with all its furry little fields? 01:02:20 And those in-code declarations of it... aren't they wonderful?... 01:02:28 Okay, so it doesn't actually seem to define classes itself. But still! 01:02:41 Aand immediate problem reached; build systems suck. 01:02:44 alise: Oh the boilerplate! 01:03:03 And yes, build systems are universally awful. 01:03:17 SCons is definitely waful... 01:03:25 -!- cheater99 has joined. 01:03:28 CMake is most definitely awful... Oh, what's that one I'm thinking of... 01:03:29 *awful 01:03:36 That makepp thing is probably awful... 01:03:37 *Autotools*. 01:04:01 pikhq_: NO. 01:04:08 Please suffer. 01:04:16 I will not use Autotools. 01:04:31 pikhq_: Or was that not a suggestion? 01:07:18 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:07:22 *Autotools*. 01:07:22 pikhq_: NO. 01:07:23 Please suffer. 01:07:23 I will not use Autotools. 01:07:23 pikhq_: Or was that not a suggestion? 01:08:59 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 01:09:02 Well, Waf looks alright: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waf 01:09:08 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:10:07 -!- uorygl has joined. 01:11:30 alise: That was an example of a truly awful build system. 01:11:36 Yes. 01:11:39 I think I'll just use http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waf 01:11:46 I've seen others use it and the example looks not-abhorrent 01:12:20 pikhq: Also, no dependencies, in that it's a single file that only depends on Python that you include with your distribution. 01:12:22 So, yay? 01:12:57 alise: I get the feeling that a package maintainer will develop hatred for that. 01:13:07 pikhq: You don't edit that. 01:13:09 You edit the wscript file. 01:13:15 Not because Waf itself is abhorrent but becaust some idiot *will* invariably edit it and make it abhorrent. 01:13:22 *because 01:13:31 pikhq: You mean... someone will edit... the bundled waf? 01:13:38 pikhq: Well fuck, I'm not going to do that. 01:13:43 I'd have to be retarded to do that. 01:14:00 But anyway, it automatically does out-of-tree builds and seems to be structured well, so ++ 01:14:41 uorygl, login? 01:14:42 -!- uorygl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:14:55 -!- mibygl has joined. 01:15:02 Sgeo_: I'm afraid I'm currently a bit jaded from nomics and their brethren for the moment. Ask again tomorrow. 01:15:14 def set_options(ctx): 01:15:14 ctx.add_option('--foo', action='store', default=False, help='Silly test') 01:15:14 def configure(ctx): 01:15:14 print('→ the value of foo is %r' % Options.options.foo) 01:15:16 How... sane. 01:15:24 mibygl: Jaded? Why? and MOOs are hardly nomics. 01:15:33 * alise checks Agora to investigate possible reasons 01:15:35 -!- uorygl has joined. 01:15:47 I've barely looked at Agora in a longish time. 01:16:09 -!- pikhq_ has joined. 01:16:19 I discovered them... a while ago, and it seems like they've never gone in the direction I've wanted them to. 01:16:25 So, jading. 01:18:00 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:18:48 pikhq_: As a sysadmin, can you answer?: What do people have against using globs for c files in build systems? 01:18:54 C files aren't just going to magically appear there. 01:19:40 alise: No clue. 01:20:03 It's perfectly acceptable to sysadmins for such a glob to be there. 01:20:12 source = bld.path.ant_glob('**/*.c'), 01:20:18 I hope that 'ant' doesn't mean "ant build system". 01:20:23 Although I don't know why I hope that, as it's just a globbing function. 01:22:33 alise hello 01:22:36 * cheater99 waves 01:23:17 hello. 01:23:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:23:55 how r u? 01:24:04 Irritated. 01:24:13 Absolutely irritated. 01:24:47 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:25:35 not you 01:25:40 i don't care about you pikhq 01:25:43 i was asking alise 01:27:57 ok seriously shut up 01:28:12 :P 01:40:34 -!- CakeProp1et has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 01:42:34 pikhq: Okay, waf is starting to annoy me. XD 01:43:01 [The bad part of alise's brain pipes up. "Surely it can't be so hard? It's only one file for waf... so why not write... your own?"] 01:45:01 "This explanation is pretty boring so I'm going to spice it up with inappropriate swearing. 01:45:01 A mother fucking sinkhole like this bitch is formed by the gradual dissolution of punk ass subsurface rock (usually rock such as limestone or mother fucking carbonate rock) by circulating ground water. As the rock dissolves, big ass spaces and slutty caverns develop underground until only a bitch thin layer of support remains on top. At one shit-wank point that fucking layer also collapses revealing the years of titty fucking erosion beneath, and often an un 01:45:01 derground skank river far below. 01:45:01 Here's a mother fucking diagram." 01:45:42 XD 01:55:40 OKAY #WAF IS DEAD THIS IRRITATES ME. 01:55:43 pikhq: Suggest me a build system 01:56:41 alise: Make it a single C file. 01:57:11 pikhq: Like SQLite! 02:00:09 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:00:13 G O D! 02:00:29 I have all this shit written here and it's just BULLSHIT! Here's what I should have to write: 02:00:42 -!- sshc has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:01:38 build-root: build 02:01:38 c-program { 02:01:38 sources: **/*.c 02:01:38 target: belial 02:01:38 cflags: -Wall -Wextra 02:01:38 release { cflags: -O2 } 02:01:41 debug { cflags: -g } 02:01:42 } 02:03:35 pikhq: Please tell me to have the strength not to proliferate another build system. 02:04:03 alise: Have the strength to instead obsolete all languages that require nontrivial build systems. 02:04:19 pikhq: Oh, I've already that. But C is the best thing for this, unfortunately. 02:09:37 pikhq: But... it is a bad idea right? 02:10:15 alise, I made a simulation of the edge of the world 02:10:27 "It's not perfect... it will allow you to walk off even if you have mail 02:10:39 "Hm, MOO habits are starting to get to me 02:13:39 -!- Oranjer has joined. 02:24:16 pikhq: How queer; xmms always builds without optimisations. 02:24:24 In fact, it uses -O0 -g. 02:24:25 Always. 02:25:38 alise: That's... Awful. 02:26:46 pikhq: I think because it's "developmental software" etc. 02:27:27 I want LLVM to get a native -> IR disassembler so that it can optimize anything 02:27:46 What's wrong with -O0 -g? 02:27:53 Sgeo_: Slow and big. 02:28:07 "Any reason? 02:28:39 No optimisations done, debugging info. 02:28:41 Any questions? 02:28:53 you can at least strip it 02:29:46 Still big. 02:29:47 "I meant, why does it build with those options? 02:30:02 There's a lot of *ridiculously* simple stuff GCC doesn't do on -O0. 02:30:03 coppro: so what build system do YOU use. 02:30:06 Sgeo_: stop doing that " thing. 02:30:15 Sgeo_: and because they couldn't figure out how to make waf work either i guess :P 02:30:16 :wonders why it's angering alise 02:30:21 BECAUSE THIS IS IRC. 02:30:40 For instance, each and every memory access involves a load and a write. 02:30:41 alise: Whatever the project uses 02:30:43 The first time, it really was an accident 02:31:03 waf? 02:31:36 coppro: if you start a project? 02:32:58 alise: I usually build by hand to start since I want to avoid a build system as long as possible, and the project never gets to a point where I need one 02:33:11 ha 02:33:19 i'm only doing this first so it doesn't come back to bite me in the ass 02:33:41 maybe i will just use coadjute 02:33:42 Deewiant! 02:33:43 When I need one, I pick randomly whichever one seems least bad to me at the time, currently Scons 02:33:48 is that advisable? 02:33:53 coppro: scons is unmaintained basically 02:34:11 close, but not quite 02:34:24 It's also comparable with jabbing forks in the eye. 02:34:42 pikhq: Oh? 02:34:44 compared to what? CMake? 02:35:00 alise: Scons is not a build system. 02:35:10 It is a library with which one can write a build system. 02:35:22 I half agree 02:35:26 pikhq: indeed 02:35:34 And it's not even a good library. 02:35:45 I'm almost considering http://omake.metaprl.org/index.html now 02:35:51 It's a purely-functional language and 02:35:52 "Often, a configuration file is as simple as a single line 02:35:52 .DEFAULT: $(CProgram prog, foo bar baz) 02:35:52 which states that the program "prog" is built from the files foo.c, bar.c, and baz.c. This one line will also invoke the default standard library scripts for discovering implicit dependencies in C files (such as dependencies on included header files)." 02:35:54 is giving me false hope. 02:36:01 But seriously, Coadjute is ... good. 02:36:09 I just need assurance for Deewiant that it's good for C :P 02:36:15 it /is/ a library with which one can write a build system, but it also comes with sufficient defaults to be used only as a build system 02:36:19 "The identifying number associated with an object is unique to that object. It was assigned when the object was created and will never be reused, even if the object is destroyed. Thus, if we create an object and it is assigned the number `#1076', the next object to be created will be assigned `#1077', even if `#1076' is destroyed in the meantime." 02:36:24 That's misleading, kind of 02:36:32 ("With support for: [...] Haskell!") 02:36:34 sounds like SQL 02:37:06 Can someone explain Sgeo's cow obssession? 02:37:13 Sure, at a physical level, that's how it works, but in general, LambdaCore's @recycle actually transforms the object into garbage, which can be used by @create 02:37:20 So in reality, object IDs are reused 02:37:39 coppro: cow? 02:37:43 moo 02:37:49 lulz. 02:38:07 You know what this is bullshit, why do build systems suck 02:38:32 * Sgeo_ is saddened that he got it before alise did 02:38:57 -!- Tritonio_GR has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:38:58 why 02:39:46 this is so depressing 02:40:20 alise: because they have a ridiculous number of variables to cope with 02:40:29 Scons is an excellent example of the why 02:40:31 I JUST WANT TO BUILD A C PROGRAM. 02:40:47 then Scons will possibly do 02:40:54 so will CMake 02:40:56 or autotools 02:41:00 pikhq: Sysadmin! Why is scons shit for you? 02:41:05 coppro: haha have you ever used cmake 02:41:08 (or autotools) 02:41:24 alise: Yes. They are in fact capable of building things... not much else, though. 02:41:51 although really, the same could arguably said of Scons 02:42:15 cmake is a nuclear powered waffle iron powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment 02:42:31 and it burns one of the waffles and doesn't touch the other. 02:42:35 * coppro tries to work out what he's trying to say 02:42:43 me, you mean 02:42:46 yes 02:42:49 err, sorry, she 02:42:54 lol :P 02:42:58 I would also have accepted "it" 02:43:02 alise: It is *absolutely awful* to automate. Absolutely *awful*. 02:43:08 coppro: I was expecting "they're" 02:43:10 `addquote cmake is a nuclear powered waffle iron powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment and it burns one of the waffles and doesn't touch the other. 02:43:11 erm 02:43:13 coppro: I was expecting "you're" 02:43:18 coppro: HackEgo is broken 02:43:23 alise: third person with /me 02:43:27 ok so explanation: 02:43:29 No output. 02:43:31 At the very least cmake and autotools can be scripted. 02:43:33 pikhq: Why? 02:43:39 (genuinely curious) 02:43:45 (a) nuclear powered waffle iron -- it's meant to build programs. Instead, it's a full-blown, shitty programming language 02:44:00 (b) Powered by a burning-hot testicle attachment -- EDITING CMAKELISTS.TXT MAKES ME WANT TO KILL THINGS 02:44:14 (c) and it burns ... -- it's really hard to get it to work and you have to hack it a ton. 02:44:34 coppro: There is no single way to say simple, simple things like "I want to use this compiler" or "I want to use these compiler flags". 02:44:53 pikhq: Ah, yeah. 02:45:01 You just have to *hope* that the bastard who used scons was so kind as to *write configuration logic*. 02:45:02 that bit's always dumbfounded me 02:45:11 on the plus side, the cache is epic 02:45:33 a guy at the place I used to work came up with the brilliant idea of hardlinking the cache, which makes it even more epic 02:45:34 That bit makes sysadmins WANT TO KILL YOU FLAY YOU AND PRESERVE THE SKIN AS WARNING TO OTHER DEVELOPERS. 02:45:38 It is THAT. FUCKING. BAD. 02:47:01 (seriously - no copying costs? YES PLEASE) 02:48:04 pikhq: What's best for you apart from autotools? 02:48:31 and the cache is an absolute godsend if you have generated headers included by everything 02:48:50 alise: Well-written makefile. 02:49:04 pikhq: Mm. 02:49:15 pikhq: It's just that for a *developer* that's the worst solution :-) 02:49:19 A poorly-written one makes me kill people. A well-written one means I hit make and all's well. 02:49:19 ...Second best? 02:49:33 I'm not sure. 02:49:41 A well-written makefile is usually pretty awesome, until you try to move outside its problem domain 02:49:56 "Autoscons - An Autotools replacement for SCons" 02:50:04 You just have to *hope* that the bastard who used make was so kind as to *write configuration logic*. 02:50:25 coppro: Except that's actually the default. 02:50:54 It takes *extra work* to make it not handle CFLAGS and CC. 02:51:22 gcc -Wall -Wextra foo.c main.c -o result ? 02:51:49 cat Makefile -- foo: foo.o bar.o 02:51:53 make -- builds it 02:52:03 make CC=... CFLAGS=... LDFLAGS=... CPPFLAGS=... -- builds it 02:52:48 coppro: Do you actually do that in make? 02:52:58 http://miller.emu.id.au/pmiller/software/cook/ This looks tempting. pikhq hates me now 02:53:08 Unless make uses lots of magic that I don't know about, you still need to write the Makefile to use those variables, which is not a lot of effort, but is still greater than 0 02:53:14 alise: cook? I recall nice things about it. 02:53:23 coppro: Make uses a lot of magic that you don't know about. 02:53:24 pikhq: Except that Nobody Has It :-) 02:53:30 coppro: default rules 02:53:33 alise: Yes, that's the only bad thing. :P 02:53:36 coppro: welcome to 80s 02:53:59 coppro: Write that as: result: foo.o main.o 02:54:04 ah, ok 02:54:17 so yeah, well-written then 02:57:53 Query: What is release/debug enum? Build type? Build kind? Something one-word. 02:58:08 I've heard variant 02:58:33 there was another term though 02:58:35 um... 02:59:47 alise: Anyways. When it comes down to build systems, the biggest thing is the ability to automatically configure nearly everything. This means accepting "CC" and "CFLAGS", making it easy to turn off configurable dependencies, etc. 02:59:57 The second biggest thing is *not being freaking broken*. 03:00:04 Note that integers and floating-point numbers are never equal to one another, even in the `obvious' cases. 03:00:06 I absolutely hate having to *rewrite* a build system. 03:00:10 I guess that saves some confusion 03:00:24 * pikhq still has nightmares from rewriting a Perl build-system to not be interactive 03:00:32 (said Perl build-system didn't work) 03:00:37 wtf 03:00:39 interactive? 03:00:46 Yes. *Interactive*. 03:01:10 This was for a package that included, in effect, its own OS. Because it was older than UNIX and later ported. 03:01:29 I still have nightmares. 03:01:34 and had a *Perl* build system? 03:01:39 Yes. 03:01:48 It's still maintained. 03:01:56 By idiots, but still maintained. 03:04:05 Name the perps. 03:04:09 IRAF. 03:04:22 Some university; don't recall who did it. 03:04:35 It was originally proprietary, made GPL later. 03:04:47 I've found that what's absolutely *worst* is proprietary software that gets an open release. 03:05:10 Proprietary software tends to suffer from truly massive NIH syndrome. 03:05:22 For instance, there's Second Life. 03:05:26 Conversely, the best in my experience is open-source stuff with significant corporate backying 03:05:27 *backing 03:05:28 Which includes its own copy of the STL. 03:05:31 (written poorly) 03:05:36 coppro: Also agreed. 03:06:06 Because they have every incentive to do it right. 03:06:41 I think MOO was inspired by Perl 03:06:51 {first, second, ?third = 0} = args; 03:06:58 However, that doesn't seem to do anything about GCC. 03:07:33 There is no excuse for its build system. 03:07:36 And Mozilla. 03:07:37 That's because it's run by people (a person?) who think(s) that all the corporate backers are trying to steal from them/him 03:07:38 *shudder* 03:07:40 Mozilla. 03:08:06 They recently approved C++ for use... can you say clusterfuck? 03:08:20 coppro: Most GNU stuff has painful code, but it's at least got a reasonably automatible build system. 03:08:27 GCC is the exception. 03:08:42 It works differently than everything else for no good reason. 03:09:26 (of course, if you look into the details, autotools is awful, but it's at least easy on the surface.) 03:09:32 FUCK THIS SHIT 03:09:41 alise: ? 03:09:42 KILL ME 03:09:45 the fact that it has to bootstrap itself pretty much tosses the idea of using any build system that exists in a normal fashion 03:09:48 FUCKING BUILD SYSTEMS 03:10:09 coppro: First: not really. Second: it doesn't have to bootstrap itself. 03:10:24 Fuckin' 3am, fuckin' have to get up at 9am, fuckin' A 03:10:30 6 hours of sleep 03:10:33 fuckin' AAAAA++++++ 03:10:35 it does if the compiler it's using isn't GCC-compatible, which any portable build system should assume is not the case 03:10:59 coppro: Still, it shouldn't be hard to at least make a *sane* build system for that. 03:11:08 that's true 03:11:20 fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfucikfuckfuckfuckfuckfuck 03:11:20 Even if it is custom, you can at least not make it incomprehensible. 03:11:28 Wow, that's a surprisingly low rate of fuckerrors. 03:11:34 Only one error; an "i". 03:11:48 I know it actually wouldn't be too much work with Scons. Autotools will cry if you try. Not enough experience with CMake to know. 03:12:32 alise: stop complaining about errors and go to sleep 03:12:33 Of course, GCC should build on targets that Python doesn't run on. 03:12:45 coppro: FUCK YOU I JUST WANT A BUILD SYSTEM :'( 03:13:01 pikhq: Does it really require Python now too? 03:13:03 * alise googles "build system that doesn't suck" out of desperation 03:13:07 "Waf: a pleasant build system" 03:13:10 HAHAHAHAHA 03:13:20 coppro: scons does. 03:13:31 WAF IS LIKE A GIGANTIC SANITY-VIOLATING COCK 03:13:31 ah, yeah :) 03:13:33 -!- coppro has left (?). 03:13:37 -!- coppro has joined. 03:13:49 alise: Sounds like you've become a sysadmin. 03:13:50 :P 03:13:56 let that go down in history as my official anti-endorsement 03:14:07 Or at least very very depressed. 03:14:09 "Makefile are not modular. Recursive Make is especially evil." 03:14:12 It should be "Makefiles". 03:14:14 You fail at grammar. 03:14:22 Not only are your opinions worthless, so is your English. 03:14:26 You should die in a fire now. 03:14:57 "The execution model just makes sense to me." 03:15:03 You dying JUST MAKES SENSE to me. Like, now. In a fire. 03:15:08 "Progress indication and colored output is built in, not an after thought. Like SCons, Waf build files are regular Python files." 03:15:13 Hooray, coloured fucking output 03:15:19 "Waf is fast. Faster than SCons." 03:15:24 Unlike your death which will be painfully slow 03:16:56