< 1276214424 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean... I guess you could just continue having a non-determined x until the program halts < 1276214427 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when it does < 1276214430 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deduce that x was B < 1276214432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the logs are long, and you are not nickpinging me, so... < 1276214435 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then flush IO and all that. < 1276214438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good < 1276214440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the x=b case < 1276214448 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to stipulate that /all/ programs halt. < 1276214453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew, google seems to have removed that background annoyance again < 1276214462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i redefined nondeterministic tm's and realized they have an obvious existing definition that's very different. < 1276214502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what annoyance, by default there was no background annoyance was there? < 1276214562 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nondetermistic branch points = parabolas. :D < 1276214583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1276214588 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...rofl. nevermind. < 1276214593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well if it wasn't default i must have triggered it, because earlier today google's front page started fading in background images (somewhat varying ones) < 1276214602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i use google.no of course) < 1276214602 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess non-deterministic functions are parabolas < 1276214615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-deterministic functions? relations? < 1276214629 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is that what a relation is technically? < 1276214651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vice versa < 1276214664 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1276214675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"multivalued functions" are isomorphic with relations < 1276214677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a function from A to B is a subset S of AxB such that for each a \in A there's exactly one b \in B such that (a, b) \in S < 1276214684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well exactly one pair for a < 1276214685 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1276214709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a relation you let there be more pairs for a, and don't require there to be any, so basically just any subset of AxB < 1276214727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so multivalued functions < 1276214740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or don't < 1276214741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a function is single-valued by default (i.e. a multivalued function is not technically a function, at least not on the same set) < 1276214769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can consider a multivalued function (and thus a relation) to be a function from A to the _power set_ of B < 1276214786 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... might plan an esolang using future conditions < 1276214796 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just not assume multivalued function means function that is multivalued, but instead that it's a term. < 1276214812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i do < 1276214822 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe ?!= would have a reversed relationship of its state changes... the else-branch could be determined before halt but the true-branch cannot < 1276214837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: multivalued functions are important in complex analysis < 1276214855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1276214860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you misunderstood me < 1276214882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just saying if you say f is a multivalued X, to me that does not imply it's an X < 1276214882 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276214889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless that's the convention < 1276214900 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I don't think you can intermingle normal relationship operators with future-relationals < 1276214923 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(!).(?=) is not the same as ?!= < 1276214953 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well that's what i was saying too < 1276214967 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it might be the same actually... but I don't know how you could implement it on tm < 1276214981 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a generalization not a special case < 1276214986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1276215019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you think of another example where X Y isn't a Y < 1276215057 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-commutative field < 1276215071 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or skew field) < 1276215093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== division ring, i guess < 1276215100 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... ah okay < 1276215101 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1276215105 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to wait until halt < 1276215108 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you specify a time < 1276215117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which this state is supposed to occur < 1276215143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION may have a heart attack
< 1276215146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so maybe we could division ring multivalued functions... how about functional relations? < 1276215161 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default the time parameter of the operation is "from current time to time of halt" < 1276215161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Did that not turn that into a CTCP ACTION? < 1276215163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: perhaps also non-associative ring, rings may often be associative by default < 1276215178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ring = associative if * is? < 1276215182 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1276215184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unaware such an IRC client existed. < 1276215188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm right + is always abelian and nice in every way < 1276215204 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's hard to distribute over anything non-abelian < 1276215215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Dresden Codak updated... A week... After his previous update. < 1276215215 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1276215222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1276215225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the first time he has ever updated quickly. Ever. < 1276215244 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of abstract algebra is functions and the composition operator? < 1276215279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: (a+b)(c+d) = (a+b)c + (a+b)d = ac+bc+ad+bd but also = a(c+d) + b(c+d) = ac+ad+bc+bd < 1276215292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see you get the middle terms switched for free < 1276215355 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I think the concept I have of future-state determinism is distinct from non-determinism < 1276215362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure i see how that's a problem, but interesting point < 1276215363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you let a=b=1 then that gives you c+c+d+d = c+d+c+d < 1276215367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1276215369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276215370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1276215373 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because not all programs can be simulated via a non-halting tm < 1276215393 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... rather < 1276215403 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-halting programs on this kind of machine can't be simulated via tm < 1276215405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and if addition is a group it's then automatically abelian < 1276215419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1276215422 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cool < 1276215435 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should've seen that coming < 1276215497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always found the structures with two operators a bit too complicated for my taste < 1276215561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though fields seem to be a locally perfect algebra (locally as in the group, ring, field, algebra over field etc family; clearly boolean algebras are the locally perfect algebra in the lattic family) < 1276215569 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as in in < 1276215574 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha... imagine a similar construct with a while loop instead of an if < 1276215582 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while x ?= 2 .... < 1276215596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: do you agree with this very mathematical statement < 1276215607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lattice < 1276215621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you can think of rings as essentially the endomorphisms of an abelian group, that's one reason why they tend to pop up i think < 1276215644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ring elements < 1276215660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1276215674 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you definitely cannot determinize with a while loop and the will-equal operator < 1276215700 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far too many non-halting cases < 1276215714 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so objects = endos, addition means the combined endo "take images and add them", and * composition < 1276215741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1276215771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i have no idea what your very mathematical statement means :D < 1276215801 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we can devise a group concerning very mathematical statements < 1276215809 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to develop an understanding of what oklopol means. < 1276215826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1276215835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1276215842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1276215855 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... lets see < 1276215857 0 :biber!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1276215862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall you need commutativity of + to get one of the distributivities to work < 1276215862 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other turing machine ideas can I think of... < 1276215866 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuzzy turing machine? < 1276215889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well umm < 1276215910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaanyway < 1276215976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a*(b+c)x = a(b(x) + c(x)) = abx + acx simply because a is a homomorphism, (a+b)cx = acx + bcx by definition of + in the endo ring < 1276216072 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... @ is actualy better if you change ?= to a ternary operator < 1276216082 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 2 @ [..halt] < 1276216114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1276216206 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first two operators are the future values to be tested for future equality and the third argument is a set of times represented in execution steps < 1276216214 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arguments not operators < 1276216306 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... the semantics of ?= are not very elegant to simualte on a turing machine < 1276216314 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they change entirely when there are two variables involved < 1276216320 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x?=y < 1276216363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no... I guess you just "watch" those variables from then on < 1276216371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar in concept to a "when" statement < 1276216379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was just that you needed that a is a homomorphism, it could be considered "surprising" that the proofs of left and right distributivity are different, because they look symmetric < 1276216406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"proofs" < 1276216497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think that without commutativity of +, pointwise addition of homomorphisms does not necessarily give a homomorphism < 1276216505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1276216529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while the homomorphisms still exist, they don't form a group < 1276216691 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1276216830 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1276216839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (g+h)(x+y) = g(x+y)+h(x+y) = gx+gy+hx+hy = gx+hx+gy+hy = (g+h)x + (g+h)y < 1276216852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're right < 1276216874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that didn't take me 5 minutes to prove, i was looking for a sleeping bag < 1276216879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(...) < 1276216913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU SAY SO < 1276217253 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276217261 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-89-74.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1276218112 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276219002 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-12-230.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276220091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276220249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1276221576 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276221666 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOMESPRING has hilarious source code. < 1276221776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always thought there was something fishy about it < 1276221873 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1276221886 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly does its namesake print out as a program? < 1276221922 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hatchery Oblivion through Marshy Energy from Snowmelt Powers Rapids Insulated but Not Great < 1276221940 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome if it were a quine. < 1276224421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi there < 1276224428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, odd time for you to be awake during? < 1276224434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for me < 1276224446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in my defence I'm doing ubuntu update) < 1276224455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my times to be awake are always odd < 1276224470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, usually you stay on CET/CEST though < 1276224476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not so today I notice < 1276224486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1276224490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no? < 1276224523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. the only reason why you are noticing it now is presumably because _you_ for once are awake. < 1276224529 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276224546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1276224556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, my stomach. I'm hungry < 1276224557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1276224569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what shall I do? eat during night? < 1276224574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a strange concept < 1276224582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1276224587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway I been awake during this time before < 1276224599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often not on irc though < 1276224604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1276224628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also this is just upgrade to karmic. Tomorrow (_NOT_ tonight!!) waits an upgrade to lucid < 1276224641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hates the ubuntu release names
< 1276224683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alliterophobic AnMaster < 1276225632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1276225924 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attn: Everyone who loves the SCP Foundation wiki: < 1276225943 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/forum/t-245761/a-sad-day < 1276226048 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1276226130 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1276226142 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how Dr Gears has the audacity to call Fishmonger petty < 1276226235 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1276226242 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're active on the wiki? < 1276226556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that's absurd, the bluetooth icon (16x16 or maybe 24x24) in the menu bar turned into about 4x4 < 1276226557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1276226612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange are the side effects of upgrade-in-progress < 1276226993 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no, first time i see it < 1276226998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH karmic gdm is horrible < 1276227003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lucid any better? < 1276227030 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like purple and stuff, i think < 1276227037 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i've taken steps to de-ubuntu my laptop < 1276227045 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't have the proper ubuntu GDM < 1276227109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, can you get the old bluish theme and have a "username" "password prompt" < 1276227119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than showing all user names and letting user click on them < 1276227122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a security risk < 1276227133 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haven't done that :/ < 1276227154 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've managed to eliminate the stupid loading screens though < 1276227159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, how? < 1276227164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need that done as soon as possible < 1276227170 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's somewhere, uh < 1276227174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, well it is upgraded from jaunty to karmic now < 1276227202 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't quite remember, sorry :/ < 1276227210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, damn you ;P < 1276227213 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some weird script-type-thing though < 1276227219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, where? < 1276227226 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's /usr/share/gdm though < 1276227232 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's so much crap in so many places < 1276227241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, I want to have text thing. No splash at any point < 1276227246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I had in jaunty < 1276227249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textual boot < 1276227267 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a textual boot you'll need a stock kernel < 1276227270 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1276227280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, I use a stock one currently. Need an initrd anyway < 1276227284 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you'll have to get rid of some scripts i think < 1276227289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to encrypted / < 1276227293 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1276227295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, I see < 1276227304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it seemed semi-textual for me < 1276227309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to a point < 1276227311 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a text-mode "Ubuntu 10.04" thing? < 1276227319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, it was doing kexec to reboot < 1276227323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this could be non-standard < 1276227325 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1276227329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to normal reboot < 1276227337 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i did a full reboot < 1276227338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is still doing... stuff < 1276227344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, not during upgrade for me < 1276227362 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually this is 10.04 i'm thinking of @_@ < 1276227431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, right.. I'm planning that after I slept for a few hours < 1276227438 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmkay < 1276227441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9.10 atm, had to go by it < 1276227563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, god dammit I'm going to switch from gdm to kdm or xdm just to get an usable login < 1276227607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GreaseMonkey, how do I get rid of the mail icon in the notification area? < 1276227610 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276227612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use that mail client < 1276227641 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno... < 1276227739 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1276228246 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... anyone ever try to make a Prolog quine? < 1276228419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard < 1276228468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1276228478 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in programming is ever really too hard < 1276228489 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a matter of expended effort. < 1276228540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that thing at http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_prolog.txt looks more complicated than i expected < 1276228560 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would seem that the query could be used to simplify things somehow. < 1276228624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew, will continue tomorrow < 1276228660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime I look at prolog, I have to think about it much more than I should. < 1276228722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like constructed trees by describing child-sibling-parent relationships rather than performing commands to build the structure itself. < 1276228821 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it < 1276229013 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229175 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229446 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-217-246.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229467 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-12-230.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229577 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@adsl-69-226-14-197.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229733 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276229810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276229896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay :D http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?q=remove+google+background&date=2010-6-10&sa=X < 1276229933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... < 1276229937 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the google background < 1276229953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone think of a situation in a concurrent design in which you must synchronize two threads to do something at the exact same time? < 1276229972 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how you would go about doing that. < 1276229978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the background picture(s) that google's frontpage showed earlier today, and which i complained about < 1276229988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about here < 1276230017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well i guess it's yesterday < 1276230717 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276230985 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another Radio Linden song in the wild! < 1276230992 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Hanks - Once Again < 1276231059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unter den linden labs < 1276231691 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it < 1276231825 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1276232742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276232809 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276233359 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276233766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1276234374 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276235002 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276238662 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1276239194 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276239502 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1276239973 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1276240163 0 :Rugxulo!~rugxulo@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276240987 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster never heard of bologna? (pronounced "baloney") < 1276241044 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"myyyyyyy bologna has a first name, it's O S C A R !!!!!!!!" ... < 1276241054 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oscar Meyer, famous brand name) < 1276241073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not American. < 1276241096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And as such has not received our pro-artificial-meat-like-product propoganda. < 1276241120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bologna sausage er det nærmeste servelat man kommer i USA." < 1276241128 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/revised-entry < 1276241144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i.e. us:bologna ~ very approximately no:servelat < 1276241146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1276241420 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's just cheap, round, sliced lunch meat < 1276241442 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually a mix of several things (turkey, beef, chicken, etc... TRIPE FTW!!!!) < 1276241447 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1276241466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hesitate to call it meat. < 1276241481 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meat, just cheap and somewhat artificially mixed together < 1276241492 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tastes fine to me, but some don't like it < 1276241503 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276241629 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1276241935 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still isn't quite sure he understands what SCP is (logreading)
< 1276241992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative fiction, afaict < 1276242028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCP is amazing, scary-as-hell, cooperative fiction. < 1276242078 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, u banndz me, I well telle mah lawyur awn u!!! < 1276242113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that threat damn well _should_ be empty, since the wiki has a CC license < 1276242139 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the world is crazy enough, that's for sure ;-) < 1276242248 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing how something so useless can be fought over so intensely < 1276242462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre's_Law < 1276242638 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1276242780 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276243199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1276243200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1276243282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276243515 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1276243945 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-22-253.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1276244113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1276245155 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276247364 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276248438 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1276251416 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1276252296 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster! < 1276252325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes! < 1276252334 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor! < 1276252338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant! < 1276252348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl! < 1276252365 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this augurs ill < 1276252386 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro! < 1276252394 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw spaceships with me < 1276254336 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1276254345 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1276254594 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276254594 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-149.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1276254599 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1276254872 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1276256125 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.org <- Nobody cares enough to cybersquat it < 1276258236 0 :alissed!~root@91.105.125.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276258264 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that too, but why is it in the topic? < 1276258278 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, not on my usual box. Remember that unholy netbook? < 1276258293 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to turn it into a proper Debian install for the first time again. < 1276258298 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. Second time. < 1276258320 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means bootstrapping an ARM debian, then making it work with its unholy bootloader. Who wants to help? :P < 1276259292 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lively. < 1276259353 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked up "furry" on Wiktionary. One of the definitions it gave was "An animal character with human characteristics; most commonly refers to such characters created by members of the furry fandom." < 1276259365 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had only two translations, but sure enough, one of them was Finnish. < 1276259575 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that so sure? < 1276259581 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is this keyboard the devil < 1276259588 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s soawn < 1276259592 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawn? < 1276259804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : draw spaceships with me <-- http://conwaylife.com/wiki/index.php?title=Spaceship < 1276259834 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to be unable to type colons. : < 1276259836 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there we go. < 1276259848 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do you want to help me? You like Linux on perverse things, surely? < 1276259858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, who are you? < 1276259862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise? < 1276259868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so what is up with the nick < 1276259870 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The aliss'ed one. < 1276259878 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on that evil netbook. < 1276259882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276259898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, as for helping you, maybe. A bit pissed off with upgrading of ubuntu atm < 1276259909 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to try and replace "horribly mangled semi-debian" with "debian". < 1276259924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, the former being ubuntu? < 1276259928 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an ARM box with some seemingly-custom bootloader, so this should be fun. < 1276259930 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1276259940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, okay do you have a CD drive in it? < 1276259958 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's debian with a bunch of custom software and thinsg such as non-root users & the package manager removed. no CD, just usb: but I am going to use debootstrap < 1276259964 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I should not need either. < 1276259977 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing would install on it by stock. Insane bootloader, you see? < 1276259977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... how much disk space < 1276260010 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :459 meg of one gig < 1276260014 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(free) < 1276260023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276260025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot < 1276260031 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a lot -- but isn < 1276260036 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t a base debian isntallation smaller? < 1276260041 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it is. < 1276260043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, I don't know < 1276260056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, can you boot an usb stick on it? < 1276260058 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: :) < 1276260059 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we can find out, surely. < 1276260060 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1276260069 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It appears to be hard-coded to boot only one thing. < 1276260078 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the method it boots is a mystery to us, or at least it was last time. < 1276260091 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm going to debootstrap /debian; that will yield a working chroot. I can go from thre... < 1276260093 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1276260110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, until we figured out how it boots I don't feel like touching the kernel image < 1276260128 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a "linuxrc". < 1276260132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, and this sounds like a PITA to fix < 1276260141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, okay I think that means it is an initrd < 1276260146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not completely sure < 1276260150 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah last time i broke it just sent it back and got this shiny reflashified one < 1276260150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or initramfs < 1276260170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, where is the linuxrc? < 1276260176 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// < 1276260178 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / < 1276260190 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linuxrc starts with elf header < 1276260196 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- ELF? on ARM? < 1276260198 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1276260207 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is... does that work? < 1276260221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, hm < 1276260235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, ELF is a generic format < 1276260239 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oK. < 1276260245 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OK < 1276260261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, it is supposed to be the same for all systems. linux use ELF everywhere basically < 1276260309 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I figure that after I have /debian, I should slowly, manually replace userspace with the Debian version. Then I can think about making a new linuxrc. < 1276260325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, okay linuxrc seems to be initrd, not initramfs < 1276260346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, not sure what it is doing in / < 1276260361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, and not sure how it would work there < 1276260376 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it has no /boot. Or /root, even. /Desktop :P < 1276260384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1276260395 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircing as root *fuck yeah* < 1276260414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, what command line tools does it have? The usual set? < 1276260434 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Limited - but - yes. No file(1), for instance. < 1276260441 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No emacs - but vi; so you < 1276260446 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re pissedright now :) < 1276260447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nano? < 1276260451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, why are you on that netbook btw? < 1276260494 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? I'm too tired to lumber upstairs onto the computer,h witso might as well have some fun < 1276260499 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this < 1276260499 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276260502 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid touchpad < 1276260504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, where is the actual kernel image btw? linuxrc would be an userspace program < 1276260509 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1276260522 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue, I am searching for it now. < 1276260535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, maybe they put it in the firmware image or something like that < 1276260554 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is possible. If so, I will have to endure their kernel, but nothing more, hopefully. < 1276260628 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It appears to not be on the FS, so. < 1276260636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, what version btw? < 1276260642 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of? < 1276260647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1276260659 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would dmesg tell me? < 1276260668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, yes or uname < 1276260679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uname -r iirc < 1276260685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, anyway should be near the top of dmesg < 1276260698 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.21.5-cfs-v19 < 1276260706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm okay < 1276260706 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :armv5tejl < 1276260708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad < 1276260713 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the arch? < 1276260717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, could be < 1276260718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1276260731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, I'm not an ARM expert < 1276260782 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh I can;t paste from terminal < 1276260787 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very odd first lines in dmesg < 1276260791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, oh? < 1276260805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset < 1276260806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpu < 1276260806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.31-22-generic (buildd@crested) (gcc version 4.4.1 (Ubuntu 4.4.1-4ubuntu8) ) #60-Ubuntu SMP Thu May 27 02:41:03 UTC 2010 (Ubuntu 2.6.31-22.60-generic) < 1276260808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is odd too < 1276260815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last line should be first < 1276260830 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s3c2410-i2c (repeated twice): iiccon, 000...aa < 1276260834 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of lines linke that < 1276260838 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first line is "to DS" < 1276260840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, wtf XD < 1276260845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, I know what i2c is < 1276260852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but huh < 1276260858 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ... is more 0s btw < 1276260864 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didnt feel like counting, sort of smal address size < 1276260866 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small < 1276260866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, okay < 1276260875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so bus address I guess < 1276260882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the i2c buas < 1276260883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bus* < 1276260889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that I have no clue < 1276260914 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that is all dmesgcontains < 1276260920 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Messgaes from that i2c thing < 1276260921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, anyway make sure user space works in the chroot, especially glibc being compiled to expect newer kernel might be an issue < 1276260928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, okay, nothing else at all? < 1276260938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pasted that "2.6.21.5-cfs-v19" line from it < 1276260939 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aprtfrom the opening "to DS", no. < 1276260942 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was uname < 1276260944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, ah < 1276260953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, well, then I guess the dmesg log is filled < 1276260960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that the stuff from boot is no longer in it < 1276260969 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276260969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, dmesg is after all a cyclic buffer < 1276260974 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is i2c btw < 1276260996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, a bus for slow devices like temperature sensors and various other things < 1276261000 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot middle click - or type colon in terminal -- what's the $(echo) incantation? < 1276261007 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be the cpu meter or battery meter then < 1276261024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, a bit odd that it gives so many log messages but meh < 1276261025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"$(echo) incantation"? < 1276261030 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100% cpu usage and i have no idqea why < 1276261037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, top available? < 1276261043 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(echo -e something) or whateverto give a colon < 1276261071 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starting top stopped the hogging. >_< < 1276261096 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pidgin is using 20% of the shitty cpu lol < 1276261124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, oh < 1276261126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1276261127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1276261233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, $(echo -ne \\x3a) < 1276261236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work < 1276261337 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffff i need to redownload debootstrap < 1276261343 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking fuckity fuckshit < 1276261347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, hm? < 1276261367 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants devices.tar.gz or some thing and i think i need the arm distributtion of debootstrap < 1276261386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276261491 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses firefox on a like 400mhz arm with ~0 megs of ram so yeah < 1276261495 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interwebs are not so fun < 1276261512 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool busybox. so free -m does not even work < 1276261548 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :125 megs of ram :))) < 1276261606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1276261609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, any swap? < 1276261663 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this thing uses softfloats! < 1276261676 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno < 1276261679 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closewd the terminal < 1276261694 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think them default non-busybox userland will be ok? < 1276261788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: this thing uses softfloats! <-- whoops < 1276261800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, I have no idea < 1276261801 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has man but not nroff < 1276261806 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so man just errors out < 1276261813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276262078 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1276262144 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Debian architecture "arm" is different to "armel". < 1276262147 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat < 1276262171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, quite possible < 1276262180 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is no Debian kernel and not supported by any means since Lenny." re 2.6.12.6 < 1276262194 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 is ok though i guess < 1276262195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, armv5tejl is? < 1276262198 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1276262203 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that specific old version. not mine < 1276262210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276262261 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, no even dpkg :)) < 1276262266 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to extract the deb manually < 1276262334 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276262466 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems I need MAKEDEV. Anyone know where I could obtain that? < 1276262514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276262516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /dev < 1276262531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276262535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not on udev systems < 1276262542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, this thing has static /dev!? < 1276262571 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily -- but it certainly does not have MAKEDEV. < 1276262576 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PErsonally, my guess? Yes, static /dev. < 1276262597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, does it have the mount command < 1276262605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it to check < 1276262623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least this Debian here has a /sbin/MAKEDEV from the "makedev" package. < 1276262625 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. devpts on /dev/pts, no other dev filesystems. < 1276262635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I'm not following the discussion.) < 1276262637 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Right... gotta install that too then < 1276262925 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My thing does eabi, so, I can use armel. < 1276263044 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no nano + can't type colon in terminal s so no vi. I sure hope it has ed. < 1276263076 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276263104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, abi? < 1276263114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, sed! < 1276263118 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yaffs2" root fs. No, EABI. It;s an arm thing. < 1276263123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276263127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, what is eabi? < 1276263152 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An arm thing. < 1276263160 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will makedev work even if my kernel only does static dev? < 1276263174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, makedev is for static /dev < 1276263179 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276263189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, it creates static /dev nodes < 1276263234 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! It has makedevs, busybox makedev-esque yes? < 1276263256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alissed no clue < 1276263264 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... can't specify just some devices it seems, like you can with MAKEDEV < 1276263266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, but I don't think so < 1276263281 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it creates the special files. but apparently not a specified list < 1276263309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, debbootstrap needs this on the host? < 1276263366 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKEDEV is not architectufre dependen6t -- a shell script? Yes, AnMaster < 1276263383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, and yes MAKEDEV is a shell scrip < 1276263386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :script* < 1276263391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it calls mknod I presume < 1276263457 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just killed process 5, hope that wasn't too important < 1276263459 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo for % < 1276263477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1276263498 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that uh-oh or uh-huh? < 1276263502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ps aux | grep 5 < 1276263502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 5 0.0 0.0 0 0 ? S May29 0:20 [events/0] < 1276263506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, it is "uh uh" < 1276263516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, here 5 is something that couldn't be killed < 1276263520 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff makedev art broken < 1276263522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel task < 1276263524 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh uh meaning? < 1276263536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, "uh oh but way worse" < 1276263661 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if [ "$RANDOM" != "$RANDOM"] <-- Fails in certain edge case (detecting a capable shell) :P < 1276263695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276263702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, where is this from < 1276263810 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colon incantation again plz? Also, makedev < 1276263923 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1276263956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, hm? < 1276263964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alissed, $(echo -ne \\x3a) < 1276263967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, that? < 1276263978 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes thx < 1276263979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed, save it in a text file < 1276264046 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /c now contains the coloncantation :P < 1276264058 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun! < 1276264269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to sleep for a while < 1276264272 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants me to build pkgdetails.c from source. but i cannot find that file! < 1276264272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very tired < 1276264282 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then, clearly fizzie must now help me. < 1276265348 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h199.54.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276265704 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: YOU HELP ME THEN < 1276265852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1276265864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up < 1276266171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed: HOW CAN I HELP YOU < 1276266211 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276266306 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ho, alissed! < 1276266341 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey! < 1276266347 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome back. < 1276266379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1276266380 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I'm attempting to convert this mutant, sub-£200 Linux netbook into Debian. It's a slow ARM with a custom bootloader and a mangled system. Sound fun..? < 1276266382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1276266386 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1276266388 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its alise < 1276266389 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how r u!! < 1276266394 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, not you again. < 1276266412 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :somerandomentity < 1276266456 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1276266476 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NEVER LEAVE US AGAIN. :| < 1276266614 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: hmmm... well < 1276266617 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm stuck at a roadblock in this surgery...irritating. < 1276266620 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really sure how I could help. < 1276266630 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you know anything about Linux? :P < 1276266642 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little.. < 1276266654 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... not really. < 1276266678 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm likw an Ubuntu desktop user that knows the file system... < 1276266682 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. Clearly I must enslave... cpressey! < 1276266713 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually you want to write code in Erlang with me. < 1276266718 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even ask. < 1276266738 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you back home yet? < 1276266795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Right, like I can help. I'm running freakin' Windows too. < 1276266804 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: But have you considered NetBSD? < 1276266807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1276266810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe don't. < 1276266879 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for shitty old computers I like xubuntu alright. < 1276266904 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: This thing is already running Linux, so it is much easier to make it into Linux. < 1276266913 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: This thin is nowhere near xubuntu running level < 1276266924 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276266925 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1276266927 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you want to do < 1276266930 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is build an OS on it. < 1276266934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Oh. So, you're trying to install a ... bigger Linux? < 1276266938 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing is "500mhz arm with like 3 bytes of ram and a half-eaten debian with a window manager and firefox scrawled on" < 1276266957 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes, you actually want to prototype a rudimentary OS on it < 1276266962 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: One that has users other than root... and a working man(1), say, and file(1). And... a FREAKIN' PACKAGE MANAGER. < 1276266965 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use it as a platform for more esoteric designs. < 1276266970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1276267001 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention it has a bootloader that is hardcoded to boot /linuxrc, which is some ELF file? And I think the kernel is IN THE FIRMWARE so you can't replace it. < 1276267029 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm trying to get debootstrap working to get a debian chroot in /debian, then I'll go frolm there. I've done it before, so I should be able to do it now. Can someone unzip a file for me? < 1276267057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, I dunno. That sounds hard. < 1276267063 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unzipping the file, I mean. < 1276267065 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you write an Erlang program to transfer it to me < 1276267066 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah right < 1276267082 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so hard you could die in the process < 1276267104 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! that's what she said. < 1276267105 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1276267117 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276267119 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?s=fcb7f96a41c77dcbe428f4048c44cd88&attachmentid=926&d=1202066797 < 1276267122 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE UNZIP THIS. < 1276267126 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1276267128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LET ME SSH < 1276267133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR ACTUALLY < 1276267137 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'LL JUST TELEPORT IT TO MY SYSTEM < 1276267141 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And do you know, they put FIREFOX on this thing! < 1276267142 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or click that link < 1276267145 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's wget it < 1276267151 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Can you imagine how slow it is? < 1276267151 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you want it, straight download? < 1276267158 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is no, no you can't. < 1276267168 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: As opposed to what, a gay download? < 1276267169 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?s=fcb7f96a41c77dcbe428f4048c44cd88&attachmentid=926&d=1202066797 < 1276267171 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 < 1276267179 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, you're arousing me < 1276267191 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@jol13-1-82-66-176-74.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276267192 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the attachment here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=16121 < 1276267198 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: I feared that would be so. < 1276267203 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: hmmm so < 1276267205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I unzipped it < 1276267209 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you like me to send it to you? < 1276267214 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now what do I do with it?" < 1276267214 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, you ask a dangerous question you get a dangerous answer < 1276267223 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE IT MAKES REFERENCE TO SEX LOL < 1276267238 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: just upload it to the interwebs plz, anywhere < 1276267241 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin perhaps? < 1276267249 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not rapidshare or anything though, i think that would kill the browser on the waiting screen < 1276267298 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/dfrqez/pkgdetails < 1276267304 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1276267309 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just about to filebin it < 1276267337 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Alas, you were unable to win my love in that way! < 1276267351 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooo < 1276267356 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!11 . < 1276267359 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: so I have a long-term project... when I'm not working on an Android app... of making an Erlang MUD cient. Dunno if you're familiar with MUDs < 1276267362 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-96.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276267376 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't take it any more ^D^D^D^D^D < 1276267403 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alize *is* a mud character < 1276267434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: A MUD client? I thought it was a server... < 1276267458 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colon isn't \x38, so what is it?! < 1276267500 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... I meant server < 1276267600 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1276267633 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: 0x3a apparently < 1276267641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka 58 < 1276267665 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, they didn't give you any way to install nothing on that POC did they. < 1276267676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for Linux being open and empowering. < 1276267694 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They gave me an infinite number of ways to install nothing. < 1276267709 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally I can't type the colon i nthe terminal which is why this is even more hilarious < 1276267712 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works everywhere else < 1276267759 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to borrow a colon? Here: < 1276267774 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have at it. < 1276268036 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debootstrap away! < 1276268040 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no middle click paste either < 1276268138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Good luck. < 1276268149 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is soooo slow < 1276268171 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i've got a working chroot before,, but then i did the surgery of moving it all into the root all in one go, then it refused to boot < 1276268174 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the replacement < 1276268187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been reading the Loper OS blog, btw. Stanislav's fundamentally wrong, of course, but it's one of the few blogs I can actually stand reading, for whatever readon. < 1276268191 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1276268225 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny: I think that stanislav's basic os points are right, but his writing is unreadable vitrolic babble. < 1276268245 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Just get an interpreter of some kind on that beast so you can figure out what the ASCII value of a colon is, at LEAST. < 1276268256 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He seems to be unable to agree with anyone; no camp satisfies him, no matter how similar it is to his own. < 1276268272 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: How would I ask it that question if i can't type it? < 1276268285 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: It is vitriolic, but at least it's not long winded and pretentious, which is what most others seem to be. < 1276268295 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, it is so slow that what it really needsis a very stripped down e.g. ratpoison setup with mostly terminal apps < 1276268301 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now it is unbearable. < 1276268317 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Have you seen the recent posts? They are most certainly pretentious. < 1276268323 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the titles. < 1276268381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, point taken. His references are atrocious. But have you tried to read Unqualified Reservations? < 1276268383 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Euuuuuh. < 1276268440 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully many other OS experimenters are smart enough to not even have blogs. < 1276268447 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unqualified Rservations makes me want to puke. < 1276268458 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man is an idiot but that isn't even the problem. < 1276268470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so you have. Oh, I'm not alone. I feel relieved. < 1276268497 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Mencius Moldbug -- by the way Stanislav is a fan of him -- is not even the source of the Nock post on there. < 1276268507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should say what I mean about Loper being "fundamentally wrong", but ... in a bit. < 1276268512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? Really? Hah. < 1276268522 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's by C Guy Yarvin; his blog is moronlab or sometihng at blogspot. Google Moron Lab, you'll find it. Very ferdw posts, but acceptable. < 1276268576 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CGY let Mencius post it first for some reason; they are friends too, though in the first Moron Lab post he calls Mencius a weirdgauy and says that frankly he wouldn't read his blog :-) < 1276268579 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferdw ---> few < 1276268589 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, for MM not to credit him directly makes him not only insufferably pretentious, but an asshole too. < 1276268592 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Im seeing these lines thirty seconds after I write them!... < 1276268606 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, CGY didn't want to be credited. < 1276268609 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some odd reason. < 1276268623 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, MM passed it off as his own. < 1276268631 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1276268647 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Guy didn't want to be bothered by the kind of people who read Mencius's bog. < 1276268679 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Mencius sometimes just decidews to dedicate a huge post to justifying pseudo-fascism. < 1276268695 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything is moral if gifted with enough rhetorical questions and length. < 1276268699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he said "Maxwell's eqns, I haz dem", when he could have said "This was submitted by a source who chooses to remain anonymous, and I'm hosting it for them." < 1276268709 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot, base packagesisntalling... slowly < 1276268722 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That whole post was written by Guy, and appears on his mMoron Lab post too. < 1276268736 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, haven't had the stomach to look at anything political from that rot yet. And won't. < 1276268778 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do talk about how Loper is broken, but... slowly, and in short messsages. Briefl ytoo. Using this thing for real-time communication is a joke :-) Please. < 1276268797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, ok :) < 1276268860 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be more practical to use post! -- if not for my awful handwriting. < 1276268933 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanting to program to a sane abstraction is not a bad idea. Wanting to program to the hardware is silly, because it couples you to the hardware. < 1276268967 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree there. I do not think Stanislav wants to do that, though, perhaps I am wrong. He argues for thinner and6 fewer abstraction layers, but not none. < 1276268993 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly, I do not believehe itnends to write Low level lisp -- he is merely saying that a good architecture would be as close to possible to the intended highest-level language. < 1276269005 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think6 Loper is flawed in many ways, but not that one. < 1276269072 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He does seem to accept the idea that Loper would be an abstraction layer, but he seems to consider it a necessary evil -- he has expressed that his ultimate desire is to program right on the machine, from what I remember reading. < 1276269108 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sometimes ultimate desire merely means "in a perfect post-singularity world with faster-than-light travel and practical quantum computing...". < 1276269115 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1276269119 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case, yes, some hardware directly running high-level Lisp code would be nice. < 1276269172 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My personal ideas for a perfect OS are wildly flitting around different ideas. < 1276269180 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's got me thinking about VMs, anyway. Most of today's VMs are designed to support HLLs (JVM, .NET, etc etc). They're not designed to model hardware. < 1276269227 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that's like Oberon, like Smalltalk, like Plan 9; like Loper, like ooc/cap, like whatever the VPRI are doing right now; like ... < 1276269229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A VM that actually provides a good abstraction for both the machine and for programming, is what I see as the best idea in Loper. < 1276269280 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I seem to have some ideas or combinations of ideas that are quite uniquely mine, so that is encouraging. < 1276269320 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, let 'em ferment :) And get your crap machine outfitted (sounds like that's successfully in progress) so you can experiment :) < 1276269337 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I have any really unique OS ideas. < 1276269356 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh heck, experiment on this thing? The keyboard is unusable, the 7" screen almost as much, and it can barely run anything -- and I believe it could only boot Linux with a specific kernel version! < 1276269357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esolangs, yes. I've got another one in the barn. < 1276269373 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1276269380 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has like two esolang ideas.
< 1276269390 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Woot! < 1276269395 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that that is a rareoccasion, for you ... < 1276269418 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you well on 6yoru way to beating zzo? Have you already? < 1276269457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on how you count. But I still think I'm third, behind zzo and Wouter. < 1276269481 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But more of mine are implemented than zzo's... and more of my implementations are public than Wouter's. < 1276269484 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one thing I should aim for in my OS is small size. Yes, that's irrelevant today, but you can have a complete, bootable, graphical Oberon distribution with a compiler, TCP/IP stack, web browser, and much else, that fits entirely on a 1.44 meg floppy disk. < 1276269508 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a measure of simplicity, in a way: why do I need this code? Could I not mnake a ismpler layer? a la Forth. < 1276269542 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I set myself no constraints, I will .produce an infinitely good OS -- that has infinite system requirements, takes up an infinite amount of disk, and whose release is infinitely prolonged. < 1276269551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1276269563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would totally aim for simplicity. That should lead to small size -- if it doesn't, it would be theoretically worrisome, but I guess not worrisome in practice. < 1276269564 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, Wouter. Damn, I forgot how many languages that crazy guy made. < 1276269572 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More of yours are implementable than zzo, I tihnk. < 1276269583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I have more *named* languages than Wouter does :) < 1276269596 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Simplicity is totally subjective, though, so I need some metric thamt models it that is relevant to machines and not just humans. Thus, disk footprint. < 1276269604 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouter has [named_languages]! < 1276269670 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also want some sort of grand unifying model of STUFF, not necessarily objects. Definitely do away with disk/ram address spaceseparation. < 1276269702 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would be nice tohave some sort of stuff-persistence that can serialise any object in a format transmittable to anyone else. and all instances of stuff should be totally sandboxed from each other, so it would always be safe. < 1276269757 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course, the itnerfce has to be so differnt and so obviously better than everything else. < 1276269780 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Composable like command-line applications, but rich like graphical applications, and discoverable without using help-files, i.e. self-describing. < 1276269785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: S-Expressions are one possibility for STUFF. < 1276269800 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Efficient use of space, seamlessly blending all types of stuff and doing away with applications to produce a data-basewd, not application-basewd, intreface. < 1276269801 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow. < 1276269810 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: S-Expressions are not alive. < 1276269815 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not run things, keep state. < 1276269819 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do not interact. No, they are juts syntax. < 1276269830 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What i am looking for is something like an object model, except possibly not even OO. < 1276269839 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And EVERYTHING would fit into it. < 1276269853 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole system would just be a bunch of them, connected together. < 1276269899 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, when I share something with someone else, I don't, generally, WANT it to be alive. < 1276269905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, when I am on the receiving end. < 1276269910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please do not mail me a snake. < 1276269917 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TYou miunderstand! STUFF is not serialisation! < 1276269933 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUFF is the model for everything, it is like a Smaltlalk object environment -- smalltalk started as an OS! < 1276269943 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serialising STUFF should be possible, yes, but that is not what I am trying to find! < 1276269944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk still is an OS IMO :) < 1276269970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like FORTH, it's a language that brings in a whole environment with it. < 1276269979 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and STUFF being alive should never be a problem: all STUFF would be secure-by-design67, some perhaps cryptogrpahic mechanism to ensure that they are perfectly sandboxed from each other < 1276270003 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only interacting when the user allows it, explicitly or implicitly -- some how -- and of course I cannot articulate this because I have not found STUFF, or the interface's, true form yet < 1276270020 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But that's the plan." < 1276270060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1276270065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on smaller problems :) < 1276270082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My vision in this area is not so broad. < 1276270098 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder if I am a FORTH hypocrite. < 1276270100 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT's not the ultimate dream OOS if it's not infinitely broad. < 1276270103 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck this keyborad. < 1276270105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the language, but I never use it. < 1276270109 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly question but I'm trying to read script(4) from erlang man pages < 1276270117 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason erlang includes non-erlang manpages < 1276270123 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I amn the same way ; there is something about Forth that makes ita bhorrent to existing environmentrs. < 1276270126 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A forth OS, perhaps. < 1276270126 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in its man command... and so I get some BSD tool < 1276270133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of what I'm looking for < 1276270138 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I think erl -man just puts the erlang man pages in your manpath < 1276270145 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: try erl -man cat < 1276270152 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, extending forth to make it high level from within itself, whioe certainly possible, involves ugly spaces in between words and the like < 1276270156 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is suboptimal, in ways! < 1276270162 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 4 script, also? < 1276270162 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would seem to be the case... I can man ls for example < 1276270171 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: but how do I get script(4) instead of script(1) < 1276270191 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 4 cript < 1276270196 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :script < 1276270202 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay. < 1276270366 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man n p ==> read manul page p(n) < 1276270373 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manual < 1276270375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: OK, something more semantic than S-Exps. A computer is a piece of hardware, right? Made up of smaller pieces of hardware. So what if the OS is a piece of virtual hardware, made up of smaller pieces of virtual hardware. Then the central abstraction is whatever is common to all these pieces. That would include, at least, a rigorous definition of how they interact. < 1276270387 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I bother with embedded mode? < 1276270390 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: With Plan 9 for instance, STuFf is files, except they don't hhave living code in there. < 1276270398 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Smalltalk, STUFF is the object environment. < 1276270401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: IMO, no, not at all. < 1276270410 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded mode? < 1276270418 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put erlang on a nokia phone. < 1276270425 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1276270441 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an Erlang smartphone. < 1276270445 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXTREME MULTI-TASKING < 1276270464 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your children will run faster thanGOOGLE < 1276270472 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And google will be like sloooooooooooooooooooooow dooooown < 1276270476 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU < 1276270481 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KENYANS < 1276270491 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Oh, just had another thought, but it's slipping away. < 1276270492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FASTER THAN GOOGLE KENYA < 1276270492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1276270495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1276270506 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah? < 1276270527 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this boot script format is weird. < 1276270532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an OS/VM/Environment/whatever that makes it as easy for me to manually do the things a program does, as it is for the program to do them. < 1276270532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just... tuples and lists < 1276270540 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise debugging is hell. < 1276270552 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That seems reasonable. < 1276270572 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Erlang? < 1276270616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one of those LISP machine ideals -- visibility into what's actually going on, to support debuggability. < 1276270624 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Also, IMO, programming should become part of the user interface. The difference between users and programmers is that programmers realise that there's no difference between using and programming. Fare said that. < 1276270642 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Mostly agree, with maybe some small reservations. < 1276270643 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideqally it should be simpler than the prorgamming of today, but then so should programming itself be. < 1276270655 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be one such reservation :) < 1276270661 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, I definitely think we should not be writing C every time we want to rename some files! < 1276270670 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm... I don't understand kernelProcess in the boot script. < 1276270675 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this needs thinking. Just like every aspect of OSes. < 1276270716 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so are we talking about OS design here, I take it? < 1276270720 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1276270723 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I have found < 1276270725 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say. < 1276270743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of it as "environment design" atm, but it changes < 1276270743 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in every instance of OS design plans I've seen < 1276270764 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the progress tends to stop at design discussion < 1276270773 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say. < 1276270785 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an OS but an environment? < 1276270786 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking on the very high, theoretical level here. We are not planning to start coding tomorrow. < 1276270788 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, well implementation is a bitch, and even if you get that far, adoptation is nigh impossible :) < 1276270797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adoption < 1276270801 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, screw adoptation < 1276270810 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're basically discussing higher mathematics vs doing accounting by hand. < 1276270810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ADOPTERATION < 1276270814 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if I ever get into an OS design project < 1276270819 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who buiild actual OSes do the latter. < 1276270830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will make sure I make a prototype kernel without worrying about any kind of aesthetics. < 1276270846 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you will have made a worthless UNIX-esque clone and helped nothing in the field of OSdesign. < 1276270854 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...no < 1276270860 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prototype is simply to aid design later < 1276270864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you now have something to work with < 1276270865 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, any realisation of my perfect OS would contain no c code whatsoever. So that would be hard to do a first-draft of. < 1276270866 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just an idea. < 1276270878 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have something to work with: ideas. < 1276270886 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ify ou know how systems work youdon't need a kernel to find out. < 1276270895 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c code is C code, not stuttering coed, btw. < 1276270933 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I for one am just blowin' ideas. I have no plans or hopes of actually implementing them. < 1276270934 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying... a quick prototype helps speed up actual implementation. < 1276270965 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it matters less if you have more experience with low-level programming < 1276270991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even thinking of it as an OS right now (I think I already said that) because I KNOW what a huge task it would be to actually build a full-blown OS, and how much of that is uninteresting, like writing device drivers. < 1276270993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for those of us (like me) who don't.. < 1276271000 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My perfect os would have vvery little low level programming whatsoever :) < 1276271012 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can talk about low-level things, likehardware, in high level code. < 1276271014 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think that's possible alise... < 1276271019 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ye it is. < 1276271023 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Oberon for one example. < 1276271026 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe later < 1276271027 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1276271030 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Smalltalk. < 1276271031 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will /always/ be low level code < 1276271038 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some layer. < 1276271041 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, I said very little . Not none. And that is no67t even true < 1276271051 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High level hardware is perfectly possible. < 1276271055 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would you complain about its microcode?! < 1276271058 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....via low-level code, yes it is. < 1276271071 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we do it all the time as programmers < 1276271078 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So make one without microcode, perfectlypossible. < 1276271080 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kabam, no low level. < 1276271128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Styx architecture is fairly nice. < 1276271137 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably take a route similar to that < 1276271145 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Erlang perhaps < 1276271152 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of it as an environment, or VM I suppose, because that a) makes it feasible to implement without upsetting this ossified accretion of junk technology we call "state of the art" and b) is much more in line with language design/implementation, which I know I can do. < 1276271168 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1276271171 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ideal hardware is functional machine -- like reduceron, graph reduction mchine.agreed? I mean long-term-ideal < 1276271176 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the "virtual OS"... which makes implementation easier. < 1276271181 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just have everything in a VM < 1276271194 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you don't really need to worry about drivers in your OS/environment code. < 1276271208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I should *probably* be trying to get work done, but when your vendor's service is returning 500 Server Error, and you have no answer from that, or on your side, what can you do? < 1276271232 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Um -- not entirely agreed -- but I can see that viewpoint < 1276271257 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know if it's ideal. It's certainly nicer in many many ways < 1276271261 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what is your idqeal then? also, nothing, you can do NOTHING, except slack off < 1276271268 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1276271283 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a virtual OS needs to worry about is a) having low-level resources accessible through some kind of high-level service b) process management and scheduling c) anything else it wants to abstract. < 1276271314 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real os acheives the true goal, however: slinking off this immortal coil of shittiness < 1276271322 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad metaphors ftw < 1276271330 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible, actually. :P < 1276271332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rabble will always complain that GC and abstraction layers are too slow, of course... < 1276271346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....is OS design a popularity contest? < 1276271347 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The worst part of making an os for me is beleieve it or not typography. < 1276271370 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a typography nut, and designing my own font would just be embarrasingly bad in its result < 1276271387 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus writing all the rendering libraries... < 1276271397 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for my ideal hardware... probably something like NVRAM FGPAs where I can build new circuits on the fly. < 1276271401 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is just computer stuff. I'm good at computer stuff, I can implement that... < 1276271406 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FPGAs < 1276271437 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typography no problem for me, I would steal the Commodore 64 character set. < 1276271456 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:| < 1276271457 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The entire Styx architecture is in a VM... I think it's a pretty good strategy for clean high-level OS designs. < 1276271487 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: But I want to innovate in interface, too! < 1276271505 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just ditch everything is a file.... why would I event want to do that? < 1276271520 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And interface design is human-computer interaction, information presentation (a la tufte) and typography. < 1276271528 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: ... < 1276271536 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything is a file is but one incarnation of STUFF. < 1276271544 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not the best, but it is still STUFF. < 1276271550 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not diss STUFF. STUFF is good. < 1276271566 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are also indirectly dissing Plan 9. You fail in multitudes! < 1276271576 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's a bad architecture < 1276271596 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just been done... and there's probably a lot of things that don't really make sense as a tree of read/write character streams. < 1276271604 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sayin' < 1276271608 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: this thing uses *XFree86* < 1276271625 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: As long as you replace it with some OTHER unified model of STUFF. < 1276271637 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Plan 9 seems to manage fine although its appproach DOES have flaws < 1276271679 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, but it has pulseaudio < 1276271683 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is crazy < 1276271692 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I have no clue what STUFF is. < 1276271719 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sTUFF is exactly what it looks like: stuff. You must have a grand unified model of STUFF, be it Smalltalk objects, Plan 9 fgiles, or something of yoru own designing. < 1276271735 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not having a grand unified model of STUFF is the definifion of failure: it means you have failed to actually design your OS. < 1276271747 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Culprits include... every popular OS in existence, and mostof the unpopulra ones. < 1276271748 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ah. < 1276271775 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every kind of data and process interaction must conform to this data representation < 1276271799 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much -- and hopefully code too. Perhaps not process interaction, it cn be a little bit looser. < 1276271815 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you don'tw ant something ridiculous, like 3 types of IPC, both control files AND ioctl() crap, and so on. < 1276271824 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say support for communicate more than byte streams would make sense. < 1276271825 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cruft, not design. < 1276271833 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: agreed < 1276271835 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"file" is like Advanced STUFF Substitute. < 1276271842 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lean more to the smalltalk camp than the plan 9 camp < 1276271843 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a more high level data structure. < 1276271863 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Android has a somewhat interesting IPC model. < 1276271867 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We totally need to backronym STUFF now. < 1276271882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The T should stand for THING. < 1276271888 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S T Unified f f < 1276271898 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled it and one that I found was "stuff that undermines family fun" < 1276271914 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple T Unified Flexible F < 1276271952 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple Thing-Unifiable Flexible Fornication < 1276271955 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1276271962 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple THINGs Unified For Flexibility < 1276271964 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple thing-unifying flexible fornication < 1276271980 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You can't referenceSTUFF in THING, though. It has to be mutually recursive. < 1276271994 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUFF that unifies for flexibility < 1276271997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS, where the S stands for STUFF ? < 1276272004 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1276272034 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in Android < 1276272038 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS = THINGS helps indicate N G STUFF < 1276272055 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINGS = THINGS helps indicating notation; good STUFF < 1276272061 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can send/receive "intents" between different "components" < 1276272098 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and in my not-so-humble opinion, any realisation of STUFF that doesn't have items of STUFF being se\cured from each other by dewsign sucks. < 1276272103 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the type of the intent determines where it goes. The sending process doesn't specify a specific process to receive the intent. < 1276272148 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think you can pass along a hash table of key-values strings < 1276272153 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with the intent. < 1276272183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1276272190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, how is the replacement going? < 1276272191 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beast awakens. < 1276272211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, I'm still really tired, and family is making food < 1276272212 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: debootstrap is happily twidddling along configuring things\. < 1276272212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1276272222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, high < 1276272224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1276272225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi* < 1276272227 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assumign the chroot works, I will gradually and slowly perform surgery to replace the system with the chroot. < 1276272233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah really tired < 1276272264 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.3/20100401080539] < 1276272274 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I'm giving a retarded baby a brain transplant by moving all the neurons of a smart brain to it. < 1276272278 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to be quite craeful. < 1276272281 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*careful < 1276272311 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Configuring ed..." thanks debootstrap < 1276272326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, do not replace the busybox stuff on the host < 1276272329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to begin with at least < 1276272334 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Configuring info..." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo < 1276272351 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i won't; nor any of its specific things like the apps, or the linuxrc < 1276272362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1276272368 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll start by just replacing most of /usr/bin, say. < 1276272370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, what apps? < 1276272379 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Move on to things like /etc... < 1276272392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, be very careful with these < 1276272394 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then /bin... /usr/sbin... and finally build me a linuxrc. < 1276272401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, first figure out what exactly linuxrc does < 1276272408 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like its weirdo wifi things and whatnot < 1276272411 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course < 1276272421 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully i'll have a non-glacial browser by then so i can do that properly < 1276272424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, it might depend on calling some specific app somewhere in /usr/bin < 1276272427 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will never be fast, though. < 1276272433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which must be the non-replaced version < 1276272438 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely any ram, slow arm... < 1276272441 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1276272450 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll only replace usery tools < 1276272458 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it will be from debian stock or very similar < 1276272468 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they don't seem to have been smart enough to do anything but remove shit < 1276272570 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i may end up just making the rest of the system fit around linuxrc < 1276272579 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since e.g. replacing the kernel seems impossbiel < 1276272595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, flash the flash? < 1276272616 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, crazy idea: if i removed almost everything and had debian in a subdirectory, then made it autorun some process as root that dismantld the system and loaded debian, like loadlin? < 1276272627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, call company and ask for documentation < 1276272631 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really perverse bootloader, possible? < 1276272636 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HAHAHAHAHAHA < 1276272639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, idea: logic probe during boot to figure out what it does < 1276272673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, reverse engineer linuxrc < 1276272698 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing cost less than two hundred pounds, and the flagship use-interwebs anywhere app uses a gprs connection to a server running ie. it sensd all link clicks and text entries, the serversends back a comrpressed screenshot with link form fiel information < 1276272708 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*link and form field information < 1276272710 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IE < 1276272720 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation? From them? by asking? I THINK NOT < 1276272730 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They probably do not have any documentation! < 1276272763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, what do you mean? firefox does that? < 1276272774 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, their Ubisurfer thing < 1276272784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1276272801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1276272802 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shitty netbook. get it? < 1276272828 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a gprs connection thta you are only allowesd to use by using their internet browser thing, that connects to one of their servers which runs IE and sends back screenshots of web pages. < 1276272848 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debootstrap finished! < 1276272975 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By gum!-- the chroot works!-- < 1276273125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Yeesh, nick length, dude < 1276273152 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fits, so deal :-) < 1276273165 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If cheater99 wasn't creepy this would never have happened < 1276273180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the longer/different nick make him less creepy? < 1276273200 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Congrats on working chroot. Topping, what? < 1276273239 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Topping? is that even a thing? < 1276273253 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, but it makes me some random entity, rather than [redacted]. My disguise, it is flawless. < 1276273255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is half-in "Talk like a Wodehouse character" mode these days
< 1276273282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: There are shorter disguises < 1276273290 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shut up. < 1276273296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shuts up
< 1276273309 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, chroot works: now the hard part can begin. Major system-wide surgery. < 1276273321 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what the crap < 1276273324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse is stuck drabbing a Chrome tab < 1276273326 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will not let it go < 1276273367 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cute < 1276273373 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1276273378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1276273388 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. < 1276273396 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really do not know how to make it stop without restarting my computer < 1276273406 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or killing chrome I guess. < 1276273413 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mena restarting X didn't help? :) < 1276273415 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1276273441 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...don't know how to do that. U_U < 1276273451 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I do < 1276273455 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the name. < 1276273457 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the command < 1276273473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-alt-f1; log in; pkill -u $USER < 1276273490 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-alt-backspace < 1276273504 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was using x, istr that worked to reset it < 1276273507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That tends to be disabled nowadays < 1276273511 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drat < 1276273517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might still work, though < 1276273517 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls takes 0.08-0.09 seconds. Impressively slow. < 1276273527 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on a tiny dir) < 1276273529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple hours back on an NFS it took 25 seconds < 1276273545 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is on a local filesystem. :P < 1276273546 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's disable. < 1276273572 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I stil lcan't enter colons < 1276273580 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276273597 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to assist me in my systemsurgery? < 1276273629 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: I can't imagine what would be required to fix the colon thing, and that's the most annoying. < 1276273640 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would be to me < 1276273653 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, aptitude is taking many seconds and full CPU to start up. Just to update the sources list. < 1276273662 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is high priority to fix? < 1276273662 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing needs to win a prize forslowest computer. < 1276273672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, packages < 1276273679 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The slowness. The GUI. < 1276273680 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will be a good start < 1276273692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slowness may be incurable too. < 1276273700 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, what I want to do right now is move over the safest stuff from the debian chroot to /. < 1276273708 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that at the end, I wil have an almost-pure Debian. < 1276273722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with a test package, yeah. < 1276273732 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I would move the package system over, if possible. < 1276273739 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION kills aptitude out of sheer boredom
< 1276273755 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Slowness will not be so incurable, if I stri]p almost all daemons and use the simplest software. < 1276273790 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get to dev null takes 0.3-0.4 seconds < 1276273795 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply astonishing < 1276273797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls is pretty simple. must be a lot of daemons on that thing < 1276273803 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and took several seconds first time due to slowest, disk. EVER < 1276273820 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suspects some kind of extremely cheap, slow disk
< 1276273823 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, no, but... < 1276273830 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single command is death < 1276273835 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox 50% cpu. pidgin 23%. < 1276273836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: any USB ports? < 1276273841 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get rid of those, significantly faster. < 1276273851 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my GOD, it's running X 6n the framebuffer < 1276273855 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1276273856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1276273860 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. tinyirc or something < 1276273866 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using almost 65 of cpu to do it < 1276273867 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per cent < 1276273876 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: plus some v. light weight browser -- dillo? < 1276273878 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and links, and lose X, and that's a lot more cpu < 1276273880 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, i'm not creepy < 1276273884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dillo, if you want to keep X < 1276273886 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chincorrect < 1276273891 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: incorrect < 1276273898 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: x would be nice solely for the browser < 1276273910 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: very light x + say, ratpoison or dwm as WM < 1276273959 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no /etc/fstab. I should remedy that. < 1276273976 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1276273982 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just in the chroot. < 1276273985 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the root. < 1276273990 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one wonders how it boots up < 1276273996 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See above. < 1276274004 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am pretty sure this thing has the kernel tied into the bootloader, so yeah. < 1276274008 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is "evilly". < 1276274022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you mean the chroot they supply? < 1276274027 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're working within that? < 1276274030 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaffs2 squashfs, latter in fstab former in mount(1) < 1276274035 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean my debian chroot < 1276274046 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1276274047 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confused. < 1276274049 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1276274071 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no devfs, lol < 1276274080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, devfs is dead < 1276274083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean udev < 1276274090 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on ARM? < 1276274092 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think not < 1276274104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, devfs is no longer supported by the kernel iirc < 1276274107 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, worryingly there is not the drive in the chroot's /dev < 1276274112 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries MAKEDEV
< 1276274146 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKEDEV It's a netbook, I damn well hope it weighs less than 200 pounds! HAHAHA <-- ? < 1276276033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, you should. You might, in fact, be 4th. < 1276276057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In terms of sheer number of designs. < 1276276063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "pound" = "GBP/pound sterling", a unit of currency, and also an imperial unit of weight < 1276276070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know < 1276276077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was answering your ? < 1276276091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't get the joke still < 1276276101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`calc 200 pounds in kilograms < 1276276107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~100 < 1276276111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: netbooks are tiny < 1276276112 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1276276112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, a bit less < 1276276112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah, okay < 1276276115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN I get the joke < 1276276118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`google 200 pounds in kilograms < 1276276119 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, AnMaster may be autistic < 1276276120 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1276276120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I don't do imperial units < 1276276122 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or not < 1276276134 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1kg ~ < 1276276136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1 pound ~= 0.5 kg < 1276276138 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := 2.2 poounds iirc < 1276276140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 kg ~= 2.2lb < 1276276141 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pounds < 1276276184 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276276215 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq! A sysadmin! Just what we need < 1276276216 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276276263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a spambot pretending to be a girl that fancied me < 1276276274 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better than the real thing! < 1276276281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was obviously a spambot, due to hiding the To: line and BCCing me, and putting about fifty newlines between every line < 1276276363 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you ever installed Linux ... on ACID^W ARM? < 1276276427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this random entity? < 1276276439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I have never installed Linux upon an ARM. < 1276276443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not obvious? < 1276276455 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entity number too big to list. Please request more specific information. < 1276276471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall guess a one Elliot Hird. < 1276276476 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong. < 1276276493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: stop accusing random people of being ehird < 1276276500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's a national sport for this channel, but still... < 1276276504 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, *I* am ehird < 1276276505 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but he'd be right if he did that ..... < 1276276506 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276276519 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just not 'Elliot' hird < 1276276536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then. < 1276276537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I missed the misspelling < 1276276551 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did you not realise? < 1276276559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I realised it was you < 1276276566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason I thought you wanted to pretend to not be you < 1276276577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the signs were all there, after all < 1276276580 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; because cheater99 is creepy < 1276276586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the IP address starting in 9, which I use as a sanity check < 1276276599 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thatwon't work post-move :-) < 1276276612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might do by chance < 1276276616 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise is creepy < 1276276618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you remember everybody's IP address's first octet? < 1276276624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no < 1276276630 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unlikely < 1276276634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I whois somerandomentity so often that it would be hard not to remember < 1276276640 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276276641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1276276643 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my whois is so interesting < 1276276653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, AnMaster may be autistic <-- no < 1276276670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as such < 1276276687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly everyone in here has some traits of it though < 1276276691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to some degree < 1276276699 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sort of. < 1276276754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much everyone in the universe does < 1276276836 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, want to help do so? < 1276276859 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Debian in a chroot, and a horribly mangled Debian outside with some linuxrc crazy bootloading thing ran by a bootloader that seems to keep the kernel in firmware. < 1276276877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm < 1276276878 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wish to perform surgery to extract the Debian as much as possible to the outer system, and remove the outer system. < 1276276883 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Think you can help? < 1276277000 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this black magic is going to go anyways. < 1276277002 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*anywhere < 1276277050 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Netbook, I'm going to reprogram you with a rather large axe, got it? < 1276277099 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it already runs debian < 1276277108 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is so strange about changing this debian for a new debian? < 1276277183 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1276277219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: H2G2 misquote? < 1276277234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: chroot into your chroot, mount the old root. Remove all the outer system. debootstrap. < 1276277253 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Already debootstraped into a chroot. < 1276277265 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not the outer system. < 1276277272 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot erase the outer system completely, for its linuxrc and prorgams and firmware containing kernels are much insane. < 1276277292 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only migrate the userspace stuff to this Debian piece-by-piece. < 1276277293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can retain the linuxrc and the kernel; debootstrap shan't install those, anyways. < 1276277311 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Listen, last time I} replaced stuff it couldn't mount various filesystems or something and trefusewd to boot.he bootloader < 1276277319 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm doing this slowly, for fear of bricking it again. < 1276277352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rsync from inner to outer, with that option to make rsync not delete things? < 1276277372 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And retain all the vicious insanity prese\nt in this system? I intend to do it quite manually. < 1276277410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, SCO vs. Novell just finished altogether < 1276277417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the remaining points to decide were ruled in Novell's favour < 1276277432 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they can appeal again, presumably < 1276277437 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the judges must find it hilarious < 1276277441 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're getting paid to repeatedly say "no" < 1276277460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: the thing is, they already appealed and won the appeal < 1276277477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lost the retrail < 1276277478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*retrial < 1276277478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if they want to appeal again, they'll have to argue the opposite of what they argued last time < 1276277483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I think they might actually do that, but it would be hilarious < 1276277533 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1276277565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, SCO vs. Novell just finished altogether <-- are SCO going to try to get that overruled? < 1276277572 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "misquote" sounds so ugly. I prefer "riffing on" < 1276277591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they haven't said they will yet < 1276277597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean they won't, ofc < 1276277598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1276277626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so if they want to appeal again, they'll have to argue the opposite of what they argued last time <-- ? what why? < 1276277661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically because their last appeal, plus the current trial, adds up to "based on SCO's own arguments, SCO loses" < 1276277673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1276277677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so...? < 1276277694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is no remotely sane way that SCO can get out of this one < 1276277700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes < 1276277701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm looking forwards to whatever completely insane way they try < 1276277704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCO needs to disappear < 1276277704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but are they going to try? < 1276277710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no idea < 1276277714 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, 10 years ago,. < 1276277732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: they're no longer a credible threat at this point, but they do provide good entertainment < 1276277845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While some of you are no doubt perfectly comfortable with solving second order differential equations in order to understand a joke in a webcomic, I'm going to assume that most of you would rather hear the good stuff. " < 1276277856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the annotation on irregular webcomic today < 1276277857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1276277999 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, first idea: mv /lib /lib_bak, cp -R /debian/lib /lib < 1276278011 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test various programs. < 1276278018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, do not reboot while it is that way < 1276278021 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manually copy X11 libs from /lib_bak to /lib or something. < 1276278027 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If all works, reboot. < 1276278031 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, bad idea? < 1276278032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, no! < 1276278033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: is /usr/bin built statically? < 1276278037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, BAD idea < 1276278042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1276278043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, ^ < 1276278046 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whyso? < 1276278059 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if /usr/bin loads so's from /usr/lib you could be quite fucked < 1276278061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, because linuxrc might need it. < 1276278066 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lib not usrlib < 1276278074 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I diffed the two listings < 1276278078 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few differ except X11 libs < 1276278089 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ones that do differ aprat from x11 are... sound libs < 1276278090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, different versions < 1276278091 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shit < 1276278102 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i doubt linuxrc is /as/ crazy as you expect < 1276278103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway bbl < 1276278104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that sounds like stuff you could afford to lose. but still < 1276278123 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :live recovery disk, if you have one, would be really nice < 1276278141 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK then, what CAN I replace?! < 1276278149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your laptop < 1276278155 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't stay stopped forever for the fear that linuxrc won't work. < 1276278155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1276278163 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have a perfectly good laptop, this is just fun! < 1276278170 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a puzzle, you know? But with tangible rewards and a realistic setting. < 1276278196 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Do you have some sort of "re-install the operating system" function on that thing? < 1276278208 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes\, it < 1276278215 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s called "send back to manufacturer" < 1276278238 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a reason I want to do this slowly :-) < 1276278242 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. Was hoping for an alt partition with compressed install disks or soemthing. My old laptop at home has one of those < 1276278253 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, < 1276278263 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only say what I would do < 1276278293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, do not replace, add < 1276278307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, as in, add the missing parts, but don't touch existing < 1276278324 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is more present that there should not be, than is absent but should be present. < 1276278326 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#1 would be to have a live usb thing you can boot off of, in case you fux0r sh1t up < 1276278332 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's work < 1276278333 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something clean, not this shitpile. < 1276278346 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: bootloader won't boot to anything else remembner? < 1276278346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a serial port? < 1276278354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#2 would be to get rid of X, for now, with plans to re-install it sanely later < 1276278357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, you could try getting the serial console working on boot < 1276278387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, hack the boot loader? < 1276278393 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: Forgot. Then I would be very careful about touching anything that the boot sequence even might rely on it < 1276278396 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I am not even sure this thing has consoles. < 1276278398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, it must be somewhere < 1276278407 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in ROM perhaps. < 1276278410 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably even. < 1276278413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, hm < 1276278418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, not EEPROM? < 1276278425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're not going to be able to change the ROM, probably < 1276278435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could hack the bus < 1276278438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's EEPROM, what's the chance that there'll be a program to flash it available? < 1276278445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redirect it to something else < 1276278457 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever is cheapest, it will be that. < 1276278463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do you even own a JTAG cable? it's how those things are normally flashed on systems where they don't expect the user to be able to flash it from software < 1276278472 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-alt-f# doesn't work < 1276278475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: probably old-fashioned PROM then < 1276278475 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this thing even have consoles? < 1276278476 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finding if there is a console would be good. < 1276278487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, check /etc/inittab < 1276278487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: can you do ls /dev < 1276278491 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would not be uncheap to have a console, reusing existing video hw etc < 1276278496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, and see if there are any in it < 1276278507 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or try killing XC < 1276278507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, lines like: < 1276278509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c1:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -8 38400 tty1 linux < 1276278509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c2:2345:respawn:/sbin/agetty -8 38400 tty2 linux < 1276278509 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X < 1276278511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if you can find vcs1 in it < 1276278519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: getty clearly isn't running < 1276278523 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try killing X. Good first step. < 1276278528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well maybe they are commented out! < 1276278533 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no agetty, but busybox getty < 1276278542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity, hm < 1276278559 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : baud_rate wow :) < 1276278561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, busybox getty is sane < 1276278590 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works! and they even added a welcome message from The PocketSurfer Team lol < 1276278615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was about to suggest trying to create character device 7, 1 < 1276278620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeing if you could read from it < 1276278623 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they call it PocketSurfer linux. "Thanks for choosing DataWind!" < 1276278629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the "screenshot from tty1" device < 1276278657 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is insane < 1276278668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: I take it you're IRCing from your main laptop? < 1276278672 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logging in as root makes it try and start X and whatnot < 1276278678 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no way < 1276278682 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hardcore shit < 1276278691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you kill X and yet stay on IRC? < 1276278696 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't kill x < 1276278699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276278709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what worked, then? < 1276278712 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cran getty and now it is trying to start things because that is whoginut in the root lhey pat t < 1276278731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see < 1276278736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's root's login shell that starts X? < 1276278740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... is pretty broken < 1276278797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You say broken, I say elegant, my friend. < 1276278810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more mindboggling than anything < 1276278846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SCO argues that it is entitled to judgment as a matter of law "because the verdict cannot be squared with the overwhelming evidence and the law."11 The Court respectfully disagrees. < 1276278870 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit, this thing uses ash! < 1276278876 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems root's login is the init script < 1276278882 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is no login file ... so confusing < 1276278898 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, tis /etc/profile! < 1276278901 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such gaudy insanity < 1276278908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit it so that X don't start < 1276278922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... pilgrim < 1276278941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's /everyone's/ login shell that starts X? < 1276278943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1276278965 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not just elegance, but nigh god-like elegance. < 1276279009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is true that SCO presented more witnesses who testified that it was the intent of the parties to transfer the copyrights as part of the deal but, as the jury was instructed, the number of witnesses is not determinative. < 1276279019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to love some of SCO's arguments < 1276279068 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, uh... What I am going to do is, replace the X-starting things with gettys, and install irssi in the debian chroot. < 1276279088 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rock on, somerandomentity. < 1276279088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting getty in everyone's login shell is surely just as wrong < 1276279090 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I will have a shell, not an interactive torture device. < 1276279094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but OK < 1276279118 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm you are right, that will not even work < 1276279128 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it will run on every login < 1276279134 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no init outside of linuxrc, it seems < 1276279135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it create infinitely recursive login terminals? < 1276279152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is /tmp wiped on every boot? < 1276279161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could create a file in /tmp to say that you'd already created the gettys < 1276279166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus had no need to create them again < 1276279205 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W O W, this thing ships with GNASH < 1276279226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does GNASH actually work yet? < 1276279242 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh there is an init.d hmm no indication that it works though < 1276279251 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its Gnash I was just emphasising < 1276279253 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, bt barely < 1276279255 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no youtube for tanceins < 1276279256 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instances < 1276279287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, someone reimplemented Flash in JS < 1276279305 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and canvas/html5 < 1276279306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably rather slowly < 1276279311 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually rather good. < 1276279318 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it ALSO has an inittab < 1276279367 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION enables some gettys in the inittab to see if it will work
< 1276279378 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait that'll init twice < 1276279380 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1276279392 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you guys be able to help more with an ssh connection? :P < 1276279438 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd feel better if there were little notes of horror scattered by the devs around the system < 1276279456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: is there any way you can post it to the daily WTF? < 1276279457 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boss says it has to be this way" "oh god why" "This is insane, but then so is everything else." < 1276279459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it not /that/ bad < 1276279464 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll send it in the mail < 1276279478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: but then you'd no longer own it < 1276279488 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could send it back, i guess < 1276279559 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: want to poke around the ssh of this thing? It'd be amusing, if nothing else. < 1276279563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, SCO tried more than once to argue that they had the better case because they had numerically more witnesses < 1276279580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: you trust me enough to do that? < 1276279591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you surprised? < 1276279596 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think you're probably one of the most trustworthy people alive outside of nomic. < 1276279598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not exactly known to be malicious < 1276279607 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I don't exactly care too much about this machine. < 1276279617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somerandomentity: I'm trustworthy in nomic too, just with a different and very pedantic definition < 1276279633 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well. :P < 1276279640 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so now I get to figure out how to enable ssh < 1276279656 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just be root, I don't feel like battlin]g with this to add a new user < 1276279665 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does ssh run a login shell? < 1276279684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1276279719 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you make it not? < 1276279757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, it seems possible looking at the docs < 1276279776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the specific version of the shell over there < 1276279791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, busybox ash? debian ash? < 1276279831 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can I} tell? It just says invalid option for -h and -? < 1276279838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try --version < 1276279841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--help < 1276279842 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and man might not be reliable, this is crazy < 1276279853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that, try which sh < 1276279857 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox shell < 1276279858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seeing if the result is a symlink or not < 1276279863 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.13.2 < 1276279869 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009 feb < 1276279880 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no help available apparently < 1276279891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even in man busybox over here < 1276279894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the commands have docs < 1276279905 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill see if -l doest he crazy < 1276279905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ash's documentation is "ash ash #define ash_full_usage" < 1276279924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you try running ash -i, followed by ps? < 1276279935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and verifying that the resulting shell is called "busybox" or "ash" in the ps listing? < 1276279986 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh -l does crazy, sh doesn't < 1276279990 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can you make ssh not do a logi nshell < 1276280010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, instead of telling it to start a shell < 1276280018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tell it to run a particular command that happens to be a shell < 1276280022 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1276280023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get a non-login shell that way < 1276280027 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i will start ssh and open the port < 1276280034 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, and tell only you the port < 1276280041 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, nmap < 1276280051 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding a password would be too much fuss < 1276280057 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggested security method? port should be fine < 1276280061 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who would nmap it? < 1276280078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, good luck, you two. I gotta be off. < 1276280083 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1276280084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adieu. < 1276280086 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do coem back! < 1276280088 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*come < 1276280090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try :) < 1276280094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know why that thing isn't running sshd by default < 1276280096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276280104 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know that that is true < 1276280109 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is in /etc/rc.d and should be rubnning ssh < 1276280117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's no obvious way to authenticate a login < 1276280138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a crazy method would involve writing your own PAM plugin that requires a password only remotely an has nothing to do with the user < 1276280152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you could accept connections only from my public IP, that would likely work < 1276280159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you have a clever enough firewall < 1276280167 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /etc/init.d/ssh cant run no lsb functions :-) < 1276280173 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts ssh manually
< 1276280236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh or sshd? < 1276280257 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1276280276 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i give sshd a rudimentary password thing < 1276280279 0 :relet!~hirtho@port-92-206-232-132.dynamic.qsc.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1276280282 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thta it requires before all connections? < 1276280284 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sshd < 1276280313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not sure < 1276280320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems this laptop doesn't actually have sshd installed < 1276280323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor its manpage < 1276280581 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276280978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276281060 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1276281067 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dns appears to be nonfunctional >.< < 1276281072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1276281083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not change it to a different DNS server? < 1276281093 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my resolv.conf is f\ine .. what can i d6/ < 1276281093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it the DNS client at your end that's broken? < 1276281098 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, gimme a good dns server < 1276281106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.2.2.1 < 1276281106 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opendns will do, or that ... 10.4.4.n thing < 1276281108 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it is < 1276281110 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that < 1276281132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could try google's at 8.8.8.8 < 1276281141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I trust a random company I've never heard of more than google < 1276281151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be something wrong with me < 1276281158 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, 4.2.2.1 is run by backbone guys i think < 1276281164 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at leats some really big telecom company < 1276281171 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i definitely do not trust google with my dns < 1276281208 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any dsns client thing i have to flush? < 1276281256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really big telecom company, Level3 < 1276281271 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have not heard of level3? < 1276281273 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astonishing < 1276281291 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh this thing is completely solid state so you only know it's struggling becaues of the little cpu indicator < 1276281293 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the tray < 1276281319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only heard of Level3 because of the DNS < 1276281378 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you deend on them for access to the internet. At some point, most likely < 1276281380 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*depend < 1276281397 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc they maintain a few root dns servers, and many many many things utilies their network < 1276281423 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seri\ously, what do i gotta flush < 1276281435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing unless you're running some kind of DNS cache < 1276281455 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then why it no worky < 1276281533 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1276281577 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sad, like a sad thing. < 1276281590 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276281630 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps a dns client issue then? < 1276281639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1276281661 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ill try rebooting < 1276281666 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MAY NOT SEE ME EVER AgAIN < 1276281810 0 :somerandomentity!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276281909 0 :alissed!~root@91.105.125.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276281923 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know the time, you know the place, something that rhymes, to save the human race. < 1276281931 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less obscurely, you can connect now. I think. < 1276281944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing several relevant pieces of info < 1276281948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I use the IP in your whois? < 1276281955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that's the main one < 1276281964 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not try and see? < 1276281969 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the other pieces of info? < 1276281978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say port, but we agreed that alreayd < 1276282001 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do tell if it works. < 1276282006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mostly works < 1276282018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no prompt, though < 1276282018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even if I set PS1 < 1276282018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I get responses to commands < 1276282035 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276282039 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sh option do i need? < 1276282057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1276282063 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I can't type capital P in the terminal either < 1276282073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ls isn't outputting in columns, making it rather hard to use < 1276282083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, nc just ended < 1276282084 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: attempt now < 1276282092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exited immediately < 1276282103 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it did < 1276282104 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276282124 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh < 1276282130 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what options does busybox sh have, could you look it up? < 1276282137 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there is bash < 1276282151 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now, try < 1276282178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no prompt, otherwise working < 1276282189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do without a prompt, I'm just wondering wtf is going on < 1276282198 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, wait < 1276282213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the prompts being shown on your screen? < 1276282246 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1276282248 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1276282260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exiting immediately < 1276282265 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffff < 1276282270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably, anything going to stderr goes to your screen, anytthing going to stdout goes to mine) < 1276282291 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, stderr is not being seen < 1276282295 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1276282372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no prompt < 1276282385 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set PS1 < 1276282388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I send to stderr, i get the output < 1276282397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setting PS1 did nothing < 1276282414 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what, I'll connect myself < 1276282435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox claims it has telnetd compiled in < 1276282452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to run it as "busybox telnetd" if there isn't a symlink, though < 1276282469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's no prompt, the shell might be in the non-interactive mode. < 1276282504 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interactive mode doesnt work though < 1276282505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good point < 1276282523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I try to start an interactive shell from the noninteractive shell? < 1276282526 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: telnet in < 1276282550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went mad < 1276282555 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso < 1276282561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll pastebin < 1276282572 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just summarise < 1276282581 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHIT < 1276282583 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS THE INIT < 1276282591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, thought it might be < 1276282595 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha fuck you windows EVERYWHERE :D < 1276282606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a fatal X error, saying it already ran < 1276282609 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two battery indicators fuck yeah < 1276282613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then started IceWM < 1276282624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which exited because it was already running < 1276282638 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay try now < 1276282639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, I now have a shell that works < 1276282647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing now < 1276282659 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing? < 1276282667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection closed by foreign host < 1276282669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instantly < 1276282690 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1276282707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sa,e < 1276282709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*same < 1276282733 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1276282789 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now?! < 1276282800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the same < 1276282808 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :failing that we'll go back to nc + starting interactive < 1276282835 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc in now < 1276282843 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run bash -i < 1276282865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay prompt < 1276282884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's taking a noticeable amount of time, maybe around 200ms, to reply to trivial commands like echo < 1276282911 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1276282917 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's possible this thing is just slow < 1276282919 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it usable enough? < 1276282921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, less and more aren't waiting for paging, they're just outputting the whole thing < 1276282924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usable, though < 1276282927 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1276282929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what to use it /for/, though < 1276282939 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess, just try and figure it out. < 1276282969 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /debian is my chroot. /etc/init.d has stuff, /etc/inittab too. /etc/profile is the devil. < 1276282977 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : / is... root. < 1276282982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, at least reading /etc/profile explains the insanity < 1276282988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's echoing PATH after it sets it < 1276282993 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the question is: How does this system really work? And how can I surgeryify /debian into it? < 1276282997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which explains why telnet blurted out the path for no apparent reason < 1276282997 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what the hell is linuxrc? < 1276283045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is /linuxrc text or binary? < 1276283053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to tell with the commands on there, other than trying to look at it < 1276283066 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary, ELF < 1276283074 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you may want to chroot into /debian < 1276283080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, linuxrc seems to be a SuSE thing < 1276283083 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has modern utilities, like nano and vi and a good shell < 1276283090 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /mnt/poop is the root < 1276283093 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, its definitely debian < 1276283097 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1276283102 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this machine is most certainly debian < 1276283117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it's the bootloader for the SUSE installer < 1276283122 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha what < 1276283125 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1276283126 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not copied in < 1276283129 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, suse uses it < 1276283131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the docs say you can use it as a bootloader for an installed system too if you really want to < 1276283132 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be initrd or something < 1276283136 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common in embedded devices i guess < 1276283139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1276283145 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not just a suse thing < 1276283147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.opensuse.org/Linuxrc < 1276283156 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, use the /debian chroot; it is far more pleasant < 1276283168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I was supposed to be helping you figure out how the system was so insane? < 1276283176 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1276283178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I chroot out of the insane bit, I just get a standard debian < 1276283179 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do that with sane tools < 1276283180 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1276283186 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /mnt/poop < 1276283191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you mean I should chroot to debian, then break the chroot? < 1276283193 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mount Poop, the most dreaded of mountains < 1276283197 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically, yes < 1276283204 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look in /mnt/poop, inspect with high-tech tools < 1276283209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, "cd /" took almost half a second < 1276283217 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archaeologists don't use primitive tools to examine their samples < 1276283259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, exited netcat by mistake < 1276283262 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276283270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's a bad sign < 1276283299 0 :alissed!~root@91.105.125.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276283301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"linuxrc parameters are case-insensitive and you can add as many hyphens, underscores, or dots as you want." < 1276283304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed: whoops < 1276283307 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try now < 1276283351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's working fine, except /mnt/poop seems to be empty < 1276283354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being mounted < 1276283363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/dev/mtdblock2 on /mnt/poop type yaffs2 (rw)" < 1276283409 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276283416 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umount it and remoutn it, then < 1276283418 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*remount < 1276283461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the command to mount? < 1276283466 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a guess < 1276283466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs a few settings I can't remember offhand < 1276283476 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount -t yaffs2 /dev/mtdblock2 /mnt/poop < 1276283479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mount: you must specify the filesystem type" < 1276283481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't remember how < 1276283482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276283494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's better < 1276283549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /etc/install.inf, linuxrc's config file, seems not to exist < 1276283566 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not that kind of linuxrc afaik < 1276283578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems plausible that it would be < 1276283585 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey can you start icewm --replace in the background plz? < 1276283588 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda without a wm here < 1276283601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icewm: command not found < 1276283605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because I'm inside the chroot < 1276283621 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exit temporarily then plz :P < 1276283626 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no disown btw so youd need nohup < 1276283634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, didn't nohup it < 1276283641 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, thank you < 1276283646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1276283652 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1276283783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, exited by mistake again < 1276283793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real problem with nc is that it exists on things like ^C and ^D < 1276283799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than sending them into the inside shell < 1276283835 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276283868 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, feel free to try and get telnetd working inside :P < 1276283871 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should work now < 1276283881 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm just unsure which part I should migrate from /debian first. < 1276283889 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even what init it is using. < 1276283894 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linuxrc holds the key, but how to inspect it? < 1276283911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take its SHA1 hash, then google it < 1276283922 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody else uses this thing < 1276283948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct, no results < 1276283959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity, I thought that was actually a decent idea for finding executables < 1276283972 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we could look at it < 1276284003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file isn't installed, either on the inside or the outside chroot < 1276284018 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so install it :) < 1276284022 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use apt-get, not aptitude < 1276284027 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aptitude takes minutes to start < 1276284030 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1276284053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sets PS1 to a sensible value
< 1276284078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, apt-get is also far from instant < 1276284083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing seems to be rather slow < 1276284096 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its a few hundred mhz arm with 128 megs of ram or so < 1276284100 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with x11 and pidgin running < 1276284113 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wall doesn't seem to work < 1276284121 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice to be able to communicate in-shell < 1276284121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptys seem not to work altogether < 1276284129 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the chroot or outside? < 1276284132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1276284143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because /dev/pts doesn't exist inside the chroot < 1276284145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it exist outside? < 1276284151 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i can create that < 1276284160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1276284164 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1276284170 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that wall work < 1276284174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1276284178 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276284185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, I've started wall and now have no way to exit it < 1276284189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you kill my wall process? < 1276284203 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, sec < 1276284204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^C and ^D both kill the outside netcat) < 1276284214 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no kiillall so i have to mount proc to use ps to find the id < 1276284239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankis < 1276284240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thanks < 1276284244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sh: [4080: 1] tcsetattr: Invalid argument" < 1276284259 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: im echoing to ptses < 1276284260 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it working < 1276284267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as not pressing control-anything, I now also have to remember to use heredocs < 1276284271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1276284298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /dev/pts is quite a bit smaller than /mnt/poop/dev/pts < 1276284303 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276284328 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a scale of one to ten, how weird is it to be talking technically about a directory called poop when i was just test-mounting it? < 1276284330 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should rename it < 1276284336 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i saw that < 1276284338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only about 3, i know you < 1276284344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that was pty 1 < 1276284349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try 5 if you're aiming for me < 1276284356 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input output error, alas < 1276284359 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messaging to 0 works < 1276284366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 4? < 1276284368 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you do it? < 1276284370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's likely to be one of the high-numbered ones < 1276284373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I echoed to 1 < 1276284373 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all except 0 and 1 which is me < 1276284385 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see that? < 1276284389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1276284391 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276284398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ofc < 1276284400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not in a pty at all < 1276284403 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1276284407 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ARE you in anyway? < 1276284412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a pipe < 1276284420 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a named one either < 1276284430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1276284433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried running script to create a pty < 1276284438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got "openpty failed" < 1276284447 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try it in /mnt/poop < 1276284453 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroots tend to not like doing such things < 1276284458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, unchroot? < 1276284459 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the mntpoop binary < 1276284465 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or that < 1276284476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote "exit" and it exited every level at once < 1276284482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dropped me back to my own shell < 1276284483 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: incidentally, bit of history: both devs are static < 1276284486 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also,heh < 1276284495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why it did that < 1276284499 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i could install ssh in the chroot < 1276284503 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could escape it anyjway < 1276284531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's a pain < 1276284539 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1276284543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chroot /mnt/poop" would have been enough < 1276284543 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we use thechroot anyway < 1276284546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'd be inside two nested chroots < 1276284550 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1276284550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in opposite directions < 1276284555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's ridiculous < 1276284565 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is everything else about this machine < 1276284598 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is this the only machine to use both busybox and firefox? < 1276284606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1276284616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop has busybox installed, after all < 1276284635 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean using busybox primarily < 1276284645 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing opensshd < 1276284698 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do yout hink would be the safest thingt o move out of the chroot first? < 1276284713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My phone uses busybox primarily, and does have Firefox (well, Fennec... but it's related). < 1276284714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say, just change the init script to boot into the chroot < 1276284730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignore the surrounding level of insanity < 1276284746 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, but that's just a chroot, not a real boy!^Winstall! < 1276284758 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you disconnected < 1276284760 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nc started again < 1276284788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or is it even "Firefox Mobile" officially? I think it is.) < 1276284862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ignore the surrounding level of insanity < 1276284867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1276284869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid client < 1276284883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alissed: can I write a shellscript into /root inside the chroot? < 1276284893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sets PS1 to a sane value? < 1276284903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd save having to copy it over all the time < 1276284914 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: certainly. < 1276284973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, /no/ control code works < 1276284977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even control-X to exit nano < 1276284993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could I have a process kill again? I'll use ed, that should work < 1276284997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it's installed < 1276285006 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try sshing now < 1276285008 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as root < 1276285034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which port? < 1276285040 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1276285051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection refused < 1276285097 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hnn < 1276285098 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276285103 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can chroots start network connections in the host < 1276285104 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1276285125 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh mwhoops < 1276285130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not < 1276285141 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try now < 1276285142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although nc is currently using the same port < 1276285150 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I undid that < 1276285166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants a password, and won't accept the null string < 1276285175 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll set one < 1276285181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be a bad idea < 1276285186 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1276285187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you might not be able to boot < 1276285196 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a chroot. < 1276285197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the insanity of the boot process < 1276285200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, inside the chroot < 1276285201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1276285213 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :password is the most common algebraic placeholder variable < 1276285243 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason, /root/.bashrc is not running < 1276285249 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just run that instead of your ps1-setter < 1276285282 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm a pty error < 1276285294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PTY allocation request failed on channel 0" < 1276285302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing inside the chroot can create ptys, it seems < 1276285312 0 :b3n4dd1!~tarik@193.48.172.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276285312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you're missing something in /dev < 1276285321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, that's how you create ptys, you ask a pty-creation device for one < 1276285334 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i linked the chroot pts to the outside one < 1276285352 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still fails < 1276285402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of link, hardlink? < 1276285402 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you hardlink a directory? < 1276285410 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :symlink, which is why i suspect it fails < 1276285412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it depends on the filesystem < 1276285423 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, im paranoid and always remove symlinks with unlink, not rm; am i weird? < 1276285427 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some crazy embedded one < 1276285437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on the ones that let you, you need to be root and give a special arg to ln to say "yes I really mean this" < 1276285440 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, not allowed < 1276285446 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1276285447 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! < 1276285471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -d, it seems < 1276285536 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling it would not work on the outer system < 1276285586 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276285589 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ill just go for telnet then < 1276285591 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it will work < 1276285592 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rsh < 1276285593 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick < 1276285603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think either will work < 1276285608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because script didn't < 1276285619 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay; any bright ideas? < 1276285625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, rsh probably doesn't need ptys, come to think of it < 1276285627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try that < 1276285633 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shall be done < 1276285649 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is fun, in a sort of really demented way, isn't it?:P < 1276285652 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it? :P < 1276285668 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, removing packages is slow < 1276285743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what we're trying to achieve < 1276285757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than making your system saner, which everyone here but you seems to think is a bad idea to even try to accomplish < 1276285766 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm trying to abolish all insanity in / and insert sanity in the form of Debian. < 1276285778 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but why? Because it might break it? It is useless as it is anyway. < 1276285795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be useless if you just made it boot into the chroot < 1276285811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be as useful as a sane version would be < 1276285815 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less fun, though < 1276285947 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: try now, standard rsh port < 1276285950 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know nothing of rsh < 1276285955 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i have not forwarded it < 1276285959 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is its number? < 1276285997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1276286002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do "man rsh" and get the man page for ssh < 1276286026 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i just put the nc back up? < 1276286111 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, how about we get it booting to the chroot < 1276286116 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as, at least, a first step < 1276286120 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, we need it to do getty stuff < 1276286133 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :netcat started again < 1276286170 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** consider /etc/profile locked for editing < 1276286175 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like cvs! < 1276286239 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should it run the chroot's init? < 1276286259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, is the outside init working? < 1276286266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, you don't need an inside init < 1276286269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just something to start services < 1276286282 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it'd be simpler < 1276286360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running two copies of init is simple? < 1276286364 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to try running the chroots /sbin/init to see what happens < 1276286367 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: simpler from a debian point of view < 1276286385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads Slashdot story about company putting a content warning on the US constitution
< 1276286396 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the default init level? < 1276286431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 I think < 1276286444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amazed at Puppy Linux. < 1276286445 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no /dev/initctl < 1276286451 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: amazed howso < 1276286452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has managed to make GTK not seem slow. < 1276286496 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION replaces /dev/initctl with mnt poop version
< 1276286544 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still does not work < 1276286547 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1276286553 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, how can i start just the init.d stuff? < 1276286567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be done by shellscript < 1276286576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that method still works < 1276286630 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... manually running them? < 1276286643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shell script ran everything in the right order < 1276286647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was the only thing init ran < 1276286658 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but theres already a tangle of init.d stuff id like to use < 1276286673 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how can i just use the sysv part of sysvinit? < 1276286710 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its /etc/init.d/rc i tihnk < 1276286721 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, rcS < 1276286727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276286804 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1276286809 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-243-179.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276286949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276287641 0 :alissed!~root@91.105.125.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276287652 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah, where did ais go < 1276287797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quit with a fungot quote in the quit message; that is messed-up. < 1276287798 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mother told me some of the art in solving the eopl problems specific to their business. < 1276287803 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He always does that. < 1276287816 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever he doesn't set a quit message, which is rare. < 1276288009 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-210.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276288416 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1276288498 0 :alissed!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1276288651 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1276288658 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1276288803 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1276288813 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1276288824 0 :olsner!~salparot@80.251.192.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276288893 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1276288941 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1276289031 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1276289077 0 :b3n4dd1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276289090 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1276289168 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276289308 0 :olsner!~salparot@80.251.192.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276289309 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276289358 0 :olsner!~salparot@80.251.192.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276289728 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1276289847 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276289921 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-22-253.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1276290634 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas__ < 1276290725 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas_ < 1276290740 0 :Leonidas__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1276290806 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276291032 0 :olsner_!~salparot@95.209.160.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276291197 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276291197 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :olsner < 1276292266 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello #esoteric < 1276292389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, cheater #99. < 1276292598 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you, high-quality pik? < 1276293568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I faireth well today. < 1276293579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Faireth? < 1276293581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fare. < 1276293584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fare well today. < 1276293589 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, my English does not. < 1276293935 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1276293943 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pik is a kind of fish in swedish, I think < 1276293977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, pike in english is a different fish and also a sharp pole (which pik in swedish is also) < 1276294005 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last paren could actually use a second 'also' < 1276294141 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I'm just making things up < 1276294387 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: olsner < 1276295159 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1276295309 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1276295366 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww yeah < 1276295374 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I finally found a store that supplied vermiculite < 1276295539 0 :charlls!~charlls@201.226.222.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276298517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so my sleep pattern is extremely fucked up atm < 1276298522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I woke up at 00:05 < 1276298693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm nocturnal now < 1276298823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty fucked up. < 1276298840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yep < 1276298855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, at least I get to talk to new people < 1276299038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1276299046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1276299409 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, waking up at 0:05 sounds like fun to me. I like being awake during the night. < 1276299422 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276299535 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h205.6.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276299699 0 :charlls!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Saliendo < 1276299713 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276300520 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1276300685 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276300742 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1276300788 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection