< 1276560350 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: does it have an end? < 1276560361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The arc? Yes < 1276560428 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last Sunday strip in the arc has Jon Heder playing someone < 1276560449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _think_ there are 4 weeks in the arc < 1276560587 0 :aschueler!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1276560616 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1276560617 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1276561089 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276561225 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1276561254 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276561486 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276561734 0 :augur!~augur@c-98-218-226-149.hsd1.dc.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276561957 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-18-63.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1276562022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276562238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think that's more subtle than my idea of imperitive, with no while and a limited for < 1276562273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's known to be the way to get only the primitive recursive functions < 1276562321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like, no ackermann function, as well as everything terminating) < 1276562450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other interesting sub-TC possibilities are there? < 1276562506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's BlooP from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP < 1276562511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think) < 1276562529 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did you read the comic arc I linked? < 1276562570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. although i find that comic boring for the most part. < 1276562578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1276562627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wait, don't tell me you're the author) < 1276562634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not. < 1276562650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could have been embarassing < 1276562703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i've also seen some ideas on restricting recursion to achieve things like only primite recursive, only polynomial time or only logarithmic space < 1276562727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is an admin for Wikisuperosity < 1276562732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by dividing parameters into classes where you can only recurse in certain combinations < 1276562735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1276562749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought "for, no while" was already primitive recusive only? < 1276562759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i guess time and space classes in general are examples of interesting sub-TC possibilities < 1276562770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are these ideas? < 1276562790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And would "only recursive non-primitive-recusive" be possible/ < 1276562795 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, this was a different way of achieving the same thing functionally rather than imperatively. or so i think, the case i actually read was the polynomial time one < 1276562875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: almost certainly not possible, you'll always top out somewhere _below_ all recursive, or escape to full TC. in fact i think the "usual diagonalization techniques" work for showing that < 1276562939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um or wait what do you mean, primitive recursive is a _subset_ of recursive < 1276562965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, being able to do anything except the things within the subset < 1276562972 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, not anything < 1276562976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you had only non-primitive recursive it would mean you _couldn't_ do absolutely trivial things, because those are subsets of primitive recursive < 1276563002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being unable to do trivial things, but being able to do .. more complex things, sounds fun < 1276563010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's a way, but it seems unintuitive < 1276563036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can usually reduce easier problems to harder ones < 1276563060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if "everything not primitive-recursive" isn't doable, then try for a finite set not in primitive-recursive, maybe < 1276563061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hardness is usually measured with something like reduction < 1276563130 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the thing i see is if you had any kind of composability you would be likely to be able to construct simpler things < 1276563175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you don't have composability then you might just have a finite set of not really very related algorithms < 1276563177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do not use as a pillow, toy, or floatation device" < 1276563178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late < 1276563195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you do now? :D < 1276563208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used some packing material as a toy < 1276563222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And kind of like a pillow < 1276563227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bubble wrap? < 1276563250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :airpouch.com < 1276563255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows it's humanly impossible _not_ to use that as a toy < 1276563299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh huge bubbles < 1276563370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO USE IT AS A PILLOW YOU SHOULDN'T CALL IT "AIR PILLOWS" STUPID < 1276563455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if anyone has ever used these as a floatation device.. < 1276563487 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276563527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: after they made the warning, probably ;D < 1276563528 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it's possible for a gas to not be buoyant in liquid < 1276563619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia%3ABEANS) < 1276563681 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not stop chainsaw with hands or genitals < 1276563720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm well if the gas is heavier than the liquid - in fact isn't there this lake in africa that has huge amounts of gas stored in it < 1276563741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(occasionally getting out and poisoning/suffocating people) < 1276563796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Nyos < 1276563812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it doesn't count, seems like the CO2 is dissolved until it escapes < 1276563873 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1276563879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1276563977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it is kept in the lower water layers by temperature difference and lack of mixing < 1276564102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scitoys.com/board/messages/108/1447.html < 1276564164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the second message is anything to go by, then even the heaviest gas (radon) is lighter than the lightest liquid (hydrogen). assuming those actually _are_ heaviest and lightest < 1276564267 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_stocks < 1276564406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that jimbo guy probably had it coming, anyhow < 1276564448 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1276564605 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1276564712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1276564862 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1276566419 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276566535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276566771 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O! I/O! 'Tween code and world we go! < 1276567087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1276568365 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276569259 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276569347 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have you played Diplomacy? < 1276569389 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1276569395 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or anyone else) < 1276569448 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read about it < 1276569475 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should play online, but aside from that, I'd like to discuss with someone with experience < 1276571415 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it would make sense to write an MMO in Erlang < 1276571620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would < 1276572369 0 :augur!~augur@pool-108-56-52-74.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276572375 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, a more OO language would make more sense though? < 1276572417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Nay, I have not < 1276572439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: why? < 1276572455 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To represent various entities within the world < 1276572954 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276573388 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not familiar with Erlang, sorry :/ < 1276573404 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name crops up but still < 1276573453 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay, functional programming. < 1276573620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: if you're going to avoid functional programming because it apparently can't represent objects, try Reia < 1276573647 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I want Erlang for the hot-patching < 1276573652 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And concurrency < 1276573660 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1276573661 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot-patching? < 1276573667 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, hot-swapping? < 1276573671 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot-something < 1276573710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Reia is built on the Erlang VM < 1276573712 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can patch it on the fly? < 1276573727 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yeah I see, I just wikied < 1276573731 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, there's also robozzle < 1276573752 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite extreme with its minimal storage capability < 1276573889 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.reia-lang.org/wiki/Reia_Programming_Language o.O Reia looks A LOT like Ruby < 1276573901 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1276573901 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think that might be valid Ruby code < 1276573933 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print is a private method in the string object, though :/ < 1276574011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276574022 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to just return nil < 1276574062 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1276574069 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you actually need to put stuff in the brackets < 1276574145 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it directly links to Kernel#print < 1276574160 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@173-129-222-43.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276574183 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a fun way to crash irb (interactive ruby interpreter) < 1276574185 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object.send :private, :nil? < 1276574190 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then try typing something < 1276574401 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):010:0> String.ancestors < 1276574401 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> [String, Enumerable, Comparable, Object, Kernel] < 1276575140 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276575901 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1276578177 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1276578384 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276578592 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1276580154 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1276582578 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pidgin no longer supports Win 9x < 1276582593 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good riddance < 1276582784 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized something. < 1276582806 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could claim that alise is as obsessed with old versions of Windows as I am with old virtual worlds < 1276582815 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276582848 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276583110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276583297 0 :jabb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276583327 0 :jabb!~grue@71.94.31.166 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276583470 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION double-checks that the lights are on < 1276583854 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276584021 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276584416 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276585622 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1276586187 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1276586765 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276586774 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@81.253.26.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276586981 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1276587288 0 :uorygl!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276587309 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1276587585 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276587589 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276587628 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1276587769 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276588258 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1276588799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1276588800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1276590438 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1276590689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1276590883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man. Japanese Internet memes are freaking amazing. < 1276591070 0 :slsimic!~athlon@unaffiliated/gandalfthegrey JOIN :#esoteric < 1276591272 0 :slsimic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276592115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276593280 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276594008 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276599151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did AnMaster die in a helicopter crash after being involved with the mayor? <-- ??? is this non-sequitur? < 1276600527 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276602204 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@81.253.14.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276602748 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1276604293 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276605493 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1276605816 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276607174 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14D8ED.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276609062 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-47-214.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1276609185 0 :alex2012!~a@206.161.99.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276609292 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1276609300 0 :alex2012!~a@206.161.99.76 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276609314 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello fellow humans < 1276609333 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hows mood? < 1276609385 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1276609395 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so busy here < 1276609395 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1276610128 0 :alex2012!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276610774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try turning up when I'm not at a seminar next time < 1276612228 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1276612505 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276612574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Did AnMaster die in a helicopter crash after being involved with the mayor? <-- ??? is this non-sequitur? < 1276612597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely enough, not entirely. see the later superosity link. < 1276612614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost, but not entirely, i guess. < 1276613391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276615735 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276615839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i agree that your goldbach language needs work - for one thing it's not hard to find arbitrary large even numbers that are sums of two odd primes < 1276615873 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, and there's really no advantage to them being even < 1276615889 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, they just need to get larger and larger and execution progresses < 1276615934 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1276616011 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't someone here say they implemented Thue in Haskell? < 1276616028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1276616056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard, anyway < 1276616156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at all. < 1276616172 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except for the confusing things in the spec about how I/O symbols can be overridden < 1276616204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand, does that mean, if there is a ~~~ in the initial data, then I should *not* treat that as meaning "input" when it appears on a RHS? < 1276616205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um is there something more than the esowiki says? < 1276616223 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How else do I "override" ~~~ ? < 1276616237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean ::: < 1276616270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the same applies to ~foo I believe. < 1276616280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki article contains no instance of the word "override" < 1276616295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John's doc does, though. < 1276616301 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that would be definitive < 1276616305 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as it is < 1276616308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's that? < 1276616329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/thue/doc/thue.txt < 1276616334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on salafra's site i believe < 1276616349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that either (or both) of these implicit rules may be overridden by providing explicit rules that perform some other task." < 1276616353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then < 1276616363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that means if you say ::::=foo you override input. < 1276616370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276616423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many implementations correctly do that, esp for output, where I gather ~foo::=bar only overrides outputting foo < 1276616589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they start implementing from the wiki text, obviously they won't... < 1276616700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this also means that ::: and ~output should be triggered even if they are _not_ the entire right hand side of a rule, not? < 1276616723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait for ~output that makes no sense < 1276616765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always though I/O in Thue smelled kind of funny. < 1276616772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thought* < 1276616787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you apply something::=~output to somethingwhoops you would then print outputwhoops rather than output, or perhaps a nondeterministic initial string :D < 1276616806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i already pointed out on the wiki that there is no way to avoid code injection with input < 1276616858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was from my simplified understanding, if ::: and ~output are really implicit rules that _don't_ need to apply to a whole rhs then stuff gets utterly insane < 1276616877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I want to treat thue.c as a reference implementation, but there might be no other way to ENSURE TOTAL COMPLIANCE < 1276616885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess ::: doesn't matter that much < 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The specific effect is that all < 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text to the right of the output symbol in the rhs of a production is sent < 1276616919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the output stream. < 1276616921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1276616946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it needs to be in an rhs then, although it's unclear whether the ~ must be at the start < 1276616983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /ab < 1276616984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1276616985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1276616987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, in FvdP's implementation, the ::: can appear as initial data < 1276616997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it suggests < 1276617006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it triggers input < 1276617056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know anything about water based computers? As a thought experiment I invented a simple (bidirectional) water transistor < 1276617076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems quite easy to do both "nMOS-style" and "pMOS-style" btw < 1276617141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall you can do computation with hydraulics < 1276617141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do a water diode, but iirc there are already some sorts of one-way water valves? Not sure how they work but they should be suitable < 1276617163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm, doesn't that imply oil? < 1276617177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hydr- is greek for water < 1276617206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so why is it that hydraulics commonly use oil? < 1276617242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can use any liquid, presumably < 1276617257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hydraulics is a topic in applied science and engineering dealing with the mechanical properties of liquids." < 1276617275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word "hydraulics" originates from the Greek word .......... (hydraulikos) which in turn originates from ........ (hydraulos) meaning water organ which in turn comes from .... (hydor, Greek for water) and ..... (aulos, meaning pipe)." < 1276617304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276617348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, I think my transistor will even model the leak current of electrical transistors quite well < 1276617394 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluidics -- I remember reading that page once. < 1276617405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's linked from the sadly short "unconventional computing" article. < 1276617560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that is quite interesting < 1276617595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatics#Pneumatic_logic < 1276617630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how reliable that amplifier is < 1276617631 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-52-07.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1276617663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorteberg_relay < 1276617705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I meant the fluid one < 1276617708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the pneumatic one < 1276617720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're sort of related < 1276617723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The word "hydraulics" originates from the Greek word .......... (hydraulikos) which in turn originates from ........ (hydraulos) meaning water organ which in turn comes from .... (hydor, Greek for water) and ..... (aulos, meaning pipe)." < 1276617725 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Daaaamn < 1276617727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is way too relevant < 1276617756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in fact the section before the pneumatic logic one contains a comparison of hydraulics and pneumatics < 1276617757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a disadvantage of using air as the computing medium would be that it is quite compressible (unlike a fluid). < 1276617785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the calculation probably will be slower since zero friction would be very impractical < 1276617809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that is mentioned in that section too < 1276617841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: too what? (also *mwahahaha synchronicity*) < 1276617845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1276617859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydraulics :P < 1276617878 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to be some ridiculous thing. I mean obviously hydro is water, but it could have been like "water serpent" < 1276617928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's hydra < 1276617948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course you knew that) < 1276617954 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh pff < 1276617956 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're unhelpful. < 1276617959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydraulics -- powered by hydras with ulcers. < 1276617979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway, I suggest using water logic (5 cm scale to begin with, in some years I suspect it might be feasible to reach the 5 mm scale!) < 1276617982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hydra-ulics < 1276618032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would a water resistor look like? < 1276618034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they _did_ mention nanotechnology < 1276618045 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A valve. < 1276618053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm :/ < 1276618063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, wouldn't that be what a diod was? < 1276618064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the small scale wetness (though not very logic-related), there's another Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfluidics < 1276618074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, or possibly a zenner diode (spelling?) < 1276618095 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can stuff water backwards through a valve, it's only pressure that forces it to go whichever way it goes. < 1276618115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, can't you have one-way valves? < 1276618122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, otherwise, how the heck do pumps work? < 1276618139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have one-way valves. They're called "one-way valves" < 1276618149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, yep, diodes < 1276618156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't referring to one-way valves. < 1276618160 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to valves. < 1276618160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah < 1276618192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1276618245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, my valve system isn't a resistor at all, it just trades "voltage" for current or vice-versa. A resistor is just a leaky bit of pipe. < 1276618311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for digital logic, one disadvantage of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fluidicamplifier.gif is that it would most probably have a rather high leakage flow on the "gate" (or what would be "gate" in MOSFET) < 1276618379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that using a movable plug controlled by a small gate fluid might work better. That way the leakage would be very low. Either have complementary fluids to move it back, or a spring in the opposite end < 1276618463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, so your valve is more like a transformer then? < 1276618495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it doesn't provide the isolation that a "normal" transformer does < 1276618535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it is more like an autotransformer < 1276618542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autotransformer) < 1276619161 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276619410 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1276619451 0 :hiato!~nine@dsl-245-52-07.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1276619534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know it's sort of hard not involving you in the recent Talk:Tubes discussion :D < 1276619540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1276619543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, anyway < 1276619551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki admins see all that goes on... < 1276619591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know if the earlier 2,5 machine that's also sometimes mentioned has the same infinity issues? < 1276619646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i noted the mathworld page linked to is inconsistent - it starts with saying tape should be finite and ends with your result < 1276619678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the known proof for the 2,5 machine needs an repeating tape < 1276619679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not sure where the 2,5 in the middle fits < 1276619686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1276619686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that repeats one pattern infinitely to the left, and a different pattern infinitely to the right < 1276619698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so similar to rule 110 < 1276619698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can easily make it work on a blank tape by adding a few million new states and an extra colour < 1276619704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do the repeating in the turing machine itself < 1276619717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's identical to R110 in that respect, which it emulates < 1276619728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the repeating pattern is more complex as you have to allow for the turing machine to change direction < 1276619742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it _does_ emulate rule 110? < 1276619747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is actually a mistake in Wolfram's published proof of the 2,5 machine's completeness) < 1276619759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, although the published proof in ANKOS is wrong < 1276619765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1276619776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually pointed this out to Wolfram himself over the phone; he said does it work anyway and I said yes, so he said he wasn't bothered < 1276619802 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, excuse me i'll have to go revert a certain edit i recently did to wikipedia's UTM article *blush* < 1276619910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if, say, the repeating pattern is 100 cells long, you need to do the first 100 steps of evolution of rule 110 from the pattern and use them as part of the repeating pattern on the initial tape < 1276619911 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it _was_ cook who proved 2,5 then? < 1276619919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, cook proved rule 110 < 1276619929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if he was involved with the TM < 1276619943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect he would probably have noticed that the naive encoding for the tape doesn't work if he was < 1276619970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. could you take a look at the last diff of WP:Universal Turing Machine? < 1276619979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'd link you except :D) < 1276619999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I'm already on the page? < 1276620012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you censor irc links < 1276620038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd leave the {{fact}} tag there < 1276620051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entire situation is slightly murky, we could do with a reliable source rather than conjecture < 1276620082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say that given an appropriate repeating initial tape, the turing machine simulates rule 110, because it does < 1276620094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AFAIK I'm the only person who's proved that, and I've never written the proof down < 1276620110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, I should probably write that proof down sometime, although it (should be) pretty easy to recreate < 1276620114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't fit into a margin... < 1276620129 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll rewrite it to "based on the rule 110 automaton". is it ok if i edit summarize as "Alex Smith confirms it _was_ based on rule 110" < 1276620136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's OK < 1276620190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the 2,3 machine has a really simple halting state < 1276620212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the latest version of the proof, the halt state happens when the head goes to the left of its starting position < 1276620226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you can just use a semi-infinite tape if you like and get a halt state that way < 1276620227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1276620276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally pretty routine, but more complex than that < 1276620283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but once I realised I could make the halt state that, I couldn't resist < 1276620654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. i'll mention that on the Talk:Tubes page. < 1276620818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to be referred to? < 1276620834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine if you mention me < 1276620849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I could even say it myself, but for some reason I haven't been in a wiki talkpage discussion mood recently < 1276620913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm asking because i had the impression you're trying to keep connections of your real name with your nick rare < 1276620973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's really about _how_ you want to be mentioned, too < 1276621002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, just use one or the other, not both < 1276621008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably realname in this case < 1276621016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1276621137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you have holidays yet over there? < 1276621158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the students are all on holiday due to post-exams < 1276621164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you? < 1276621166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not, though < 1276621171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly any holiday for the staff, in theory < 1276621176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1276621178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's rather slow and I'm spending much of my time at home < 1276621201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so do you think you will have any time for feather, gcc-bf and so on during the summer? < 1276621207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1276621212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not, I have thousands of projects < 1276621220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hundreds, or possibly tens < 1276621222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it feels like thousands < 1276621236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1276621370 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1276621371 0 :mycroftiv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1276621371 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1276621393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just face it, you'll never have time for feather unless you go back in time and make it *ducks* (twice) < 1276621515 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1276621515 0 :mycroftiv!~ircguy@h69-128-47-242.mdsnwi.dedicated.static.tds.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276621555 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276621569 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276621628 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1276621766 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276621891 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276622193 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1276622919 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276622969 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1276622981 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1276623188 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1276623942 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276624545 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276624994 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1276625014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the topic? < 1276625108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, do you not find it esoteric enough? < 1276625139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the wrong sort of eso < 1276625163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, news currently on the TV (which I'm not really watching) is all about China outsourcing vehicle manufacture to the UK < 1276625180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a higher, enlightened perspective, there is no such thing as the wrong sort of eso < 1276625215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait _to_ the UK? < 1276625223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, It is a circle. < 1276625246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1276625255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big news here, because loads of people are getting their jobs back < 1276625294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, China's prosperous. :P < 1276625349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it matters a lot to me because I live in an area which used to be all housing for vehicle manufacturing < 1276625379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it went rather downhill after the plant closed, so it's nice to see it starting up again, it's possible the local streets will be filled with something other than vandals and joyriders < 1276625402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goths and vandals < 1276625452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nann ka yaxtute mo nann ka yaxtute mo EAMAN k`a taosenai yo! < 1276625467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this has been pikhq attempting to convey rocking out over IRC and failing) < 1276625480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is rocking out < 1276625489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLbFctG3tw0&feature=related < 1276625495 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What you do when listening to that. < 1276625497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's a phrase mostly used by teenagers years ago < 1276625509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precise meaning is unknown, but it has something to do with certain styles of music < 1276625528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for a moment i thought you were quoting gothic there < 1276625549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No, bizarrely pedantic Japanese romanisation. < 1276625555 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276625578 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if I can't do Japanese input I can at least be more pedantic than *everyone else* who does romanised Japanese. < 1276625605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the x for < 1276625629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The following encoded kana is small. < 1276625648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1276625649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really more of a kana encoding scheme than an actual romanisation scheme. :P < 1276625668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is xtut what you'd normally write as tt? < 1276625694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in normal romanisation that'd be "nan ka yatte mo nan ka yatte mo eaman ga taosenai yo!" < 1276625791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1276626097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What about the "nann" < 1276626187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ん < 1276626193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm encoding as "nn". < 1276626235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there some possibility of ambiguity if you just use "n" < 1276626241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1276626328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where? < 1276626385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One can have vowels following that. < 1276626441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got an example? I don't think I've ever run into that < 1276626499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :雰囲気 ふんいき hunniki (fun'iki in Hepburn) < 1276626531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for god-knows what reason, it commonly gets pronounced as "fuinki" < 1276626654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how funky < 1276627066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I think I've heard that one but never seen it written :-P < 1276627081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least fuinki sounds familiar < 1276627259 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit more common spoken, I've found. < 1276627812 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Felis sum et ad furandum veni" < 1276627826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am a cat and I have come to steal." < 1276627832 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1276627843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I have come/I came/ < 1276627919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, my suspicion is confirmed: nobody has tried to speedrun Neverwinter Nights 1 (or 2 fwiw), neither regular or TAS < 1276627949 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Latin comes from Science and Math Defeated. < 1276628049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Unless you mean the AOL game, there's a speedrun on youtube starting at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMnjuITemr8 < 1276628053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That depends on your definition of "tried"; there's at least one in Youtube. < 1276628061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. < 1276628081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm < 1276628088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just checking the main sites < 1276628112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's some glitch I don't know about, NWN must be one of the worst games to TAS ever < 1276628115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas this "youtube" is some sort of weird half-unknown underground site. < 1276628116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up there with WarioWare < 1276628190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: More like one of the hosting services for TAS videos. < 1276628193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just start by using your friendly neighbourhood search engine; they tend to index speeddemosarchive.com and tasvideos.org in addition to the underground sites like youtube < 1276628198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TAS? Ugh. < 1276628205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1276628217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can imagine how bad a warioware TAS would be < 1276628224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ironic, as people have actually tried < 1276628231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the main issue is that you wouldn't see anything but the cutscenes) < 1276628285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that speedrun's ridiculous, they put all their points into strength, charisma, and persuade; is this some new way to break the game I've never heard of? < 1276628287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cutscenes *are* fairly amusing. But still. Unless there's some amazing glitches, not worth it. < 1276628593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, so bizarre to see the cutscenes in that NWN speedrun < 1276628603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I play the Linux version, which is identical except it doesn't have cutscenes < 1276628615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead, there's a text file containing the text they have, which is kind-of cute) < 1276629615 0 :iamcal!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276629784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1276629786 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1276629932 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276630185 0 :iamcal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276630688 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276630802 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1276630915 0 :elliottcable!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ec < 1276630946 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1276630969 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276631206 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276632411 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-63.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276633529 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-205-116.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276634828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oranjer! < 1276635296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any mid-level languages like C other than C? < 1276635354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all seem to be really low level or fairly high-level. < 1276635495 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well? < 1276635516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++? < 1276635546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C with some high-level stuff tacked on. < 1276635551 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not other than C. < 1276635557 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair < 1276635563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN? < 1276635569 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal? < 1276635591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal is pretty high-level, from what I remember. < 1276635617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN, dunno. < 1276635655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in the sense of "arrays are pointers" and such. < 1276635954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering because I had this crazy idea of a non-C-based OS. < 1276636119 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just said something stupid, haven't I? < 1276636185 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: c'est possible < 1276636204 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the strictes sense, all os's are asm/machine code < 1276636223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1276636252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's Windows actually written in? < 1276636270 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows... dam dum dumb < 1276636281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C, C++, asm < 1276636284 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but judging by the numerous leaks, C < 1276636388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X? < 1276636400 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's unix+stuff, so C < 1276636401 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Objective C for the most part. < 1276636403 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1276636428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, all of the major OSes are on a foundation of C. < 1276636449 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, because it's perfect for what it does < 1276636455 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause it's this much [ ] easier than pure ASM < 1276636456 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1276636467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier than ASM but abstracts very very little of it < 1276636473 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives control structures, mainly. < 1276636494 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nice treatment of numbers and not having to remember operation names < 1276636503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also slightly harder to mix pointers and numbers < 1276636520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there another language which has C's level of abstraction? < 1276636550 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There probably was once upon a time < 1276636552 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, many HLA langs < 1276636554 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it died to C beting better < 1276636555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and nested expressions. Mustn't forget them. < 1276636560 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High Level Assembly < 1276636574 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLAs abstract roughly to the same level but in a very different way < 1276636602 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but "another language which has C's level of abstraction" is satisfied < 1276636617 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I agree they're not quite at all like a true high level lang < 1276636617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1276636632 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even NASM macros are very flexible < 1276636636 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM's IR is probably a rough example < 1276636653 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually it's closer to machine than C < 1276636656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought NASM's macros were meant to be less insane than MASM's. < 1276636690 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: perhaps, but there still remains very little one cant twist them into < 1276636696 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even FASM isn't bad < 1276636761 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Unix_history-simple.en.svg to reinforce that OSX matter < 1276636779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are control structures macroable? < 1276636811 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so < 1276636825 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using clever jump points < 1276636843 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1276636843 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that's simple < 1276636851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The diagram? < 1276636854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or NASM? < 1276636872 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the diagram < 1276637006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the way that it's orange at the start, and only becomes red later. < 1276637008 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://chewy509.110mb.com/b0.html for exaple, going back once again in the history (my bookmarks number too many for me to scrape quickly :P) < 1276637075 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compound operations are nice, though. < 1276637279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, lest I get the wrong idea, how do assembly labels translate into code? < 1276637307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the .text, .data and .bss sections are shared between each instance of a program? < 1276637380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes off to check. < 1276637424 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that much I do not know, but as for labels, in the final pass the are transformed into memory pointers that are inserted in jump destinations, in the case of things like loop .main or jmp near .label and so on < 1276637444 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My earlier experiments suggest it. < 1276637459 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the main label is the same for all instances of a process. < 1276637504 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never actually used compile ASM in an OS, so I actually have no clue about that side :P < 1276637515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1276637524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do in assembly, then? < 1276637537 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to writing my own OS or raw cpu progs < 1276637546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cool. < 1276637557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you actually run raw CPU programs? < 1276637558 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find that environment, or lack thereof, very liberating < 1276637571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every process has its own virtual address space, you can't deduce about physical-memory-sharing based on what addresses variables or labels get on runtime. < 1276637579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I've always wanted to do that, but I can never work out how) < 1276637587 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can fit the asm into 512bytes, write it as a boot sector to a floppy or vhdd or some such < 1276637596 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah/ < 1276637612 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's more, find a fat bootlader (or write one) and let it start your prog from a medium < 1276637680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Resources? < 1276637699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, RDOFF needs a use. < 1276637883 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone point me to a nice stack based, perhaps RPN, esolang? < 1276637995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc < 1276638023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's AWESOME. < 1276638075 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have conquered DC < 1276638085 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am looking for more :P < 1276638091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FALSE? < 1276638102 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess < 1276638140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glass is stack-based, sort of, but perhaps now quite the style you're looking for. < 1276638154 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, fizzie http://ix.io/11Q < 1276638183 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it do? < 1276638187 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never did look into glass, always looked rather complex < 1276638190 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's DC, right? < 1276638194 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you tell me ;) < 1276638195 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1276638196 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1276638201 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1276638209 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend you pipe it to a file, and kill it soon after launching < 1276638228 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lest you get annoyed with all the data < 1276638315 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, is it a self-interpreter? < 1276638327 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, now that's a nice idea < 1276638353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so what is it? < 1276638358 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it, and try guess < 1276638372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives me a crapload of errors about Register 012. < 1276638382 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy/paste fail < 1276638392 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how are you running it? < 1276638399 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo PROG | dc > out < 1276638423 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1276638425 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably on one line, I think < 1276638426 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam < 1276638434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack empty, now. < 1276638445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover waaaa? < 1276638447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeatedly. < 1276638469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, wget then. < 1276638480 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder what there is for VPS providers located in Sweden. < 1276638491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, more register 012. < 1276638506 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1276638512 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me check < 1276638513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN. < 1276638574 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy it into a text file, strip all the lines, then copy that < 1276638581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1276638597 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then type echo "" | dc > out < 1276638600 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then kill < 1276638625 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then examine out < 1276638630 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi in hex, then. < 1276638632 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should be awesome < 1276638634 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1276638698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is there any particular resource for the CPU-level code you were talking about? < 1276638745 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, short of example code (osdev.org springs to mind) and some asm tutorials, no, not really < 1276638755 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not hard to pick up < 1276638760 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming a knowledge of asm < 1276638799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From where do you pick it up? < 1276638849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASM? Well, I learnt most of what I know from MikeOS (a simple 16bit OS), some tutorials (am scraping now) and osdev.org wiki < 1276638918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not ASM. The other stuff. < 1276638998 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The environment-less raw-cpu stuff? osdev.org, really, and the bootloader competitions they hold/held < 1276639023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1276639093 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276639141 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell replace sub (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then sub ++ (replace sub ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub ls) < 1276639217 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; replace [] str = str; replace _ [] = []; replace sub (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then sub ++ (replace sub ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub ls); < 1276639230 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...psh, what am I doing. < 1276639239 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question ;) < 1276639346 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import Data.List; replace [] _ str = str; replace _ _ [] = []; replace sub rep (l:ls)@str = if sub `isPrefixOf` str then rep ++ (replace sub rep ((snd.splitAt) (length sub) str)) else l:(replace sub rep ls); main = print $ replace "*" "$" "Hello I love *" < 1276639371 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...need moar errors. -goes to ghci- < 1276639557 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, why does osdev.org's main page redirect to "Expanded Main Page"? < 1276639566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ISN'T ANOTHER MAIN PAGE. < 1276639631 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION applauds hiato's heroic dc. < 1276639653 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[: < 1276639809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :osdev.org has always seemed a bit disorganized to me < 1276639910 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, for example, the giant link BACK to osdev.org, on the so-called Expanded Main Page < 1276639936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, how do you write multi-line strings in Haskell? < 1276639946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, they code is asm in this day and age. i can't complain. < 1276639988 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2006-January/013911.html ? < 1276640064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, so bizarre to see the cutscenes in that NWN speedrun I play the Linux version, which is identical except it doesn't have cutscenes <-- hm? free? < 1276640077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope < 1276640082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paid binary < 1276640089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, is it single player? < 1276640094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it's nice to see that some companies release linux versions of their game < 1276640101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it does both single player and multiplayer < 1276640107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it doesn't have the toolset, I use WINE for that < 1276640119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: You want str@(l:ls) and ((snd.).splitAt) < 1276640156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm surprised that you play anything with 3D graphics! < 1276640173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good game! < 1276640189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Mesa's quite capable of handling it, even with Intel grahics < 1276640191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*graphics < 1276640195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly it's 7 or 8 years old < 1276640217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but still. I didn't expect you to play anything with more modern graphics than 2D and that being rare. < 1276640240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless ASCII of course < 1276640304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally dislike 3D games, yet my two favorite games are 3D. Not FPP, though. < 1276640332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, FPP? < 1276640335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh first person < 1276640339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what genre is that NWN? < 1276640362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's D&D ported to realtime < 1276640368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1276640373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, why does .rodata have to be in .text? < 1276640376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hard game? < 1276640377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :controls are vaguely like a third-person shooter, except it's common to pause if you can't type your commands in time < 1276640380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what? < 1276640387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget it. < 1276640390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it is a separate section? < 1276640392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not massively hard, especially on easy difficulty, and especially if you don't mind respawning after death < 1276640393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am confused. < 1276640397 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As hell. < 1276640430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, it might be next to .text, would make sense. Since both sections should be write protected. One (.rodata) should probably be no-execute too < 1276640435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *totally* need hierarchical linker sections in object files. < 1276640447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it doesn't save any memory in fact when either of them doesn't fill a complete page at the end < 1276640455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.text.rodata.rodata.bss < 1276640462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1276640463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what would that mean? < 1276640490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, also .bss would be a pain if not directly after data < 1276640495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err .data* < 1276640509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you probably want to just load the binary as is into RAM mostly < 1276640516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well into the process address space < 1276640534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, dynamic linking messes the thing up anyway... < 1276640613 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1276640614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, anyway .rodata.bss would presumably be read only data defaulting to zero? < 1276640627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did the two .rodata cancel each other out? < 1276640643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it would presumably be executable (.text) < 1276640653 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if IRC connects multiple universes together. < 1276640782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"chomp   chomp!   chop   chop   chop!   chop!" -- Ruby String class documentation < 1276640841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't know what kind of doc-generation tool those folks are using, but it creates hyperlinks which have right-to-left character ordering... despite not being in Arabic < 1276640962 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, how do I use these damn floppies? < 1276640965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Images? < 1276641005 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h64.19.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1276641020 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "test" < 1276641024 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1276641057 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, rawrite in win/nix or just plain dd < 1276641086 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I don't have /dev/fd0 < 1276641091 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = " < 1276641093 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = " < 1276641120 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized there was no need for a replace function, though you could still make a quine using it. < 1276641153 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1276641188 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1276641188 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1276641299 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, must dash. < 1276641332 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = " < 1276641335 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = "!haskell main = putStrLn (src ++ (show src)) where src = " < 1276641339 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I was just thinking about that. < 1276641360 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember a lot time ago we had two bots that would make quines for the other bots command. < 1276641363 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*long time < 1276641492 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thinking about making a Haskell quine file with multiple different quine approaches < 1276641511 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they'd have to also print all the other quine functions out as part of their code. < 1276641735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1276641755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very, very weird listening to an acapella song with a chorus of "Ultraman! Ultraman Seven!" < 1276641766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Very* freaking weird. < 1276641915 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write about it in your blah. < 1276641919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blag < 1276641920 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1276642157 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!~t7DS@189.79.112.229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276642173 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1276642179 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ol < 1276642198 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1276642495 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo_ < 1276642504 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1276642852 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1276642869 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!~t7DS@189.79.112.229 JOIN :#esoteric < 1276643051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I shall write it in my blagoblogosphere! < 1276643051 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1276643294 0 :c0d1g0f0n735!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1276643440 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1276644177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does NWN2 also exist for linux? < 1276644184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1276644191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NWN1 is much better, anyway < 1276644204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but worse graphics I presume? < 1276644212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not massively < 1276644227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NWN2 has worse graphic design < 1276644235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so NWN1's are nicer-looking even if they're technically worse < 1276644321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that rather depends on specific taste < 1276645694 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1276646008 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1276646285 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.