< 1276732803 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to write a short Bohlen-Pierce music, I don't know how good it is to you. "T100 L4 CFG8F#8F G8H8F8H8JP4 >C<JG8F#8F L8H#G16C16DEF4P4" It is like QBASIC but using Bohlen-Pierce notes
< 1276732810 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which regions? The moving one containing you?
< 1276732816 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most of them are in Scotland, but there are a few in the US)
< 1276732828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: No, as part of the normal dialect.
< 1276732836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you don't figure out which regions to avoid according to if they use "thou" or not?
< 1276732844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tenacious pronoun.
< 1276732905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How 'bout "yonder"?
< 1276732906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the MBR code: Fill the rest with null bytes)
< 1276732951 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276732995 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Out of curiosity, is this a full list of your languages, or have you invented any new ones lately? http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zzo38
< 1276733022 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Any time I invent new ones and I type it on the wiki, I will add it into that list.
< 1276733024 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Dd/dd is new?
< 1276733029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I last looked.
< 1276733042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is, if you didn't see it before
< 1276733044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, good to know.  Thanks.
< 1276733087 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a list of esolangs it is possible to write a paradox code, "Hyper Set Language" is one of them.
< 1276733138 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any language permitting infinite loops.
< 1276733165 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x() := { !x() }
< 1276733185 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276733186 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure that counts? It might count in some program langages
< 1276733188 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then x() == !x()
< 1276733204 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In hyper set language it is just an infloop too.
< 1276733205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LABEL: if (self.halts()) goto LABEL; else exit(0);
< 1276733227 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But x == !x is the DEFINITION of a paradox.
< 1276733227 0 :base3_!~base3@host109-152-205-18.range109-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276733228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I like that, it is interesting idea
< 1276733274 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Hyper set language is a different kind of infinite loop, in some way, of course no computer can actually do it, either way.
< 1276733277 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not his :P
< 1276733311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly mine, but i thought it was a nice way to illustrate what's going on in the halting problem
< 1276733323 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phrasing is mine, afaik
< 1276733442 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P := [ Run(P) if Halts(P);    Halt otherwise. ]
< 1276733448 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ehirdiphone
< 1276733465 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where [...] is "this function but in the tc language".
< 1276733523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, I gotta run.
< 1276733528 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I'm turning into you
< 1276733532 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take care, folks.
< 1276733537 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run! Run until you fall off!
< 1276733547 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wheeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!
< 1276733553 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276733559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unsafe everywhere! And if you fall off, it is not safe either, because you will fall off!
< 1276733588 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: How?
< 1276733597 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not going to sleep
< 1276733625 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did buy some melatonin, and will put away [not turn off] the computer before I start getting ready for bed
< 1276733634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the movie time service in my computer is broken now
< 1276733754 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: SLEEP IS FOR THE WEAK
< 1276733762 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No seriously sleep.
< 1276733792 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm eating dinner at 8, getting ready for bed at 11, and sleeping at midnight
< 1276734102 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I'm thinking that when I'm finally able to get to Blue Mars, I'm not going to like it
< 1276734119 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's too new!
< 1276734129 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1276734135 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's too Apple-esque
< 1276734174 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developers submit their cities to QA before they're available for online chat
< 1276734197 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not just technical stuff -- they have apparently said that some things can be too adult
< 1276734197 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like any of this ideas for D&D adventure game:
< 1276734207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have a magic item that you must figure out how to use in order to escape
< 1276734218 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* This problem must be solved using mathematics, but there is no clue that says mathematics required
< 1276734228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A monster was evil, now they want to learn to be good (and not evil), they expect the PC(s) to help them
< 1276734232 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You found a book, describing someone reading a book about things similar (but not quite) the things happening now
< 1276734238 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Combine multiple situations together, you have multiple things to worry about dealing with all at once
< 1276734273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* In the obituaries, people seem to be mysteriously dying in alphabetical order
< 1276734274 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ALL OF THOSE IN ONE
< 1276734292 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: That is what the "Combine multiple situations...." is for
< 1276734345 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you combine combining multiple situations with combinining multiple situations?
< 1276734351 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels like being silly
< 1276734391 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to help the monster by escaping using the magic item which requires mathematics to use by analysing the obituary order...
< 1276734417 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus finding the inaccurate future book which nevertheless saves the day!
< 1276734430 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276734449 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Interesting idea! I like that
< 1276734469 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it isn't exactly what I meant, but it is still good, too.
< 1276734574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you ever heard of any D&D games with anything similar to any of these ideas at all?
< 1276734620 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: whoa, it's a Wednesday!
< 1276734626 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ever played Diplomacy?
< 1276734663 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Iphone. Smuggled.
< 1276734690 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diplomacy? Is that some kind of card game?
< 1276734723 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm actually just leaving. Farewell. Sgeo__!
< 1276734731 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye ehirdiphone
< 1276734736 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info
< 1276734743 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it's a board game with no randomness
< 1276734769 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just allying with and backstabbing other players
< 1276734789 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many games have no randomness, and there are new ones
< 1276734793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some have hidden information, though
< 1276734947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have once played some cholocate making game, in anime convention, there is only one random part at the beginning is what card you pick up, and that is the only hidden information, nobody else can see your card. Other than that, there is no random or hidden information
< 1276735048 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2010/jun/16/terry-pratchett-science-fiction-book
< 1276735077 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only hidden information is the other player's true intentions, and the moves the other players wrote down before the turn is executed [not sure of the terminology]
< 1276735149 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How easy is it to move between European nations?  Can I just say, "I don't like Finland today; I'm going to go to Sweden"?
< 1276735221 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl: I don't know about residence, but as far as casual travel goes, the Schengen zone is basically that easy to move in
< 1276735252 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do mean residence.
< 1276735272 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that still varies from state to state
< 1276735733 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: It is not what it is
< 1276736027 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276736650 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276737035 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it safe to take melatonin even if I'm tired
< 1276737049 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276737989 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276738672 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276738743 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fantasizes about paying off his sleep dept and then learning new math, increasing my knowledge
< 1276739389 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276740053 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-30-25.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276740057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello sweet cheeks
< 1276740064 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's crackin'
< 1276741956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorgyl: In the Schengen zone, residence is a matter of: moving.
< 1276741968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can say "I don't like Finland today; I'm moving to Sweden."
< 1276742005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From EU member nations *to* the Schengen zone is just a matter of showing your passport on the way out.
< 1276742019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? There are no residence controls either?
< 1276742021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well. EU member nations that aren't Schengen. Looking at you, UK and Ireland.)
< 1276742025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: None at all.
< 1276742028 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, awesome
< 1276742034 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this not global yet
< 1276742041 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I know)
< 1276742062 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually don't know; the Schengen zone *is* much more general than just the EU.
< 1276742082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a completely seperate treaty that just happens to include most of the EU.
< 1276742108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. It also makes reference to "European citizens" being allowed into it freely. This being the only actual reference to the EU in said treaty.
< 1276742117 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a European citizen is a citizen of a EU member nation)
< 1276742200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the reason is a) that it's seen primarily as a European institution, b) the few non-Euro countries that would be possibly be accepted aren't really interested and c) Any non-Euro nation joining the zone would feel like it was ceding its immigration policy to the EU
< 1276742258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many non-EU nations in the Schengen zone.
< 1276742271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but they're European
< 1276742287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland, only on a technicality.
< 1276742303 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true
< 1276742309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if Canada did it
< 1276742319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :politically, it just wouldn't work well
< 1276742323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trade rules and such
< 1276742331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless Canada and the US did so simultaneously.
< 1276742335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I would love)
< 1276742382 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even thinking about trade across the IB; just the fact that it would open Canada-EU trade to a massive extent that neither party is probably comfortable with (for whatever reason, I don't know)
< 1276742534 0 :Adrian^L_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Adrian_L
< 1276742554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Basically, *this* is the real map of Europe: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/10/Schengen_Agreement_map.svg
< 1276742563 0 :Adrian_L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Adrian^L
< 1276742570 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1276742575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(red = EU member not in Schengen, blue = Schengen, green = future Schengen member)
< 1276742599 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't get me wrong, it would be absolutely amazing if Canada signed onto Schengen. The US simply won't.
< 1276742657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the US would. It would take either a fairly major change in political climate or the *rest* of the world signing on (and then a century's wait), though.
< 1276742678 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1276742683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually think so
< 1276742695 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the right-wing USAians are too anti-immigration
< 1276742701 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadians could come and steal their jobs!
< 1276742731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh... Those right-wing USAians are almost universally 50 and over.
< 1276742741 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true, I suppose
< 1276742754 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way to get rid of them is to let time take its toll. :P
< 1276742761 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly enough, Canada's immigration policy is in fact weirdly isolationist
< 1276742775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't compare with Japan's, though.
< 1276742783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol nope
< 1276742792 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a nation touted as immigrant-friendly, I mean
< 1276742811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is set up under the assumption that only a minority of people would want to be there permanently.
< 1276742813 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a major upheaval for us to join Schengen, and probably trigger a wave of immigration from Europe (which would no doubt upset the Euros)
< 1276742823 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a massive wave, mind you
< 1276742825 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enough to annoy
< 1276742860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the US's is very weirdly isolationist in design considering both the history of this country *and* how many people actually do immigrate.
< 1276742862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(legally)
< 1276742895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty darned weird to think that you'd want to avoid immigrants in a country where the *natives* are a very small minority.
< 1276742964 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1276742977 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the law enforcement stuff would seriously vex Canadian institutions
< 1276743005 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote furry
< 1276743013 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39|<GKennethR-L>
< 1276743021 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a brief quote.
< 1276743039 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote addquote
< 1276743040 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123|[Warrigal] `addquote <Dylan> hahaha, Lawlabee is running windows <Lawlabee> cuz its pretty awesome. [Lawlabee] Warrigal: :(
< 1276743055 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That quote is pretty confusing.
< 1276743061 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276743339 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276743346 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276743363 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276743399 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276743468 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe the US joining would finally convince the IRS that their jurisdiction does not extend outside the USA
< 1276743503 0 :leBMD!~chatzilla@174-23-11-141.slkc.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276743522 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was some serious karma going on today.
< 1276743545 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told my friend that I couldn't hang out because I was programming, and shortly thereafter my modem stopped working.
< 1276743642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No, nothing short of a genocide program against IRS employees could convince them of that.
< 1276743759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, GCC is being annoying. Or maybe it's the fact that I insist that everything must compile with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic that's warning?
< 1276743765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/warning?/annoying?/
< 1276743790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid inability to have empty structs. Argh.
< 1276743794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic thing.
< 1276743800 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very preprocessor-metaprogramming-incompatible.
< 1276743812 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any empty types? :P
< 1276743820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void[0]
< 1276743827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be a GCC extension. :P
< 1276743834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an error with -Wall -Werror -ansi -pedantic
< 1276743847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes, -ansi would do that.
< 1276743849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm just going to have to start making static consts from my macros.
< 1276743871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -std=c99, you could have a char[0].
< 1276743877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think)
< 1276743884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(these can only exist in structs)
< 1276743898 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope
< 1276743912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. It might be a char[], then?
< 1276743952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just gonna generate static consts :P
< 1276743962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then.
< 1276743970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any compiler worth squat won't actually take runtime memory for those.
< 1276743984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a char[] in a struct creates a variably-sized struct
< 1276743999 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is all sorts of fun
< 1276744025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Technically, the struct does not have any (addtional) size, but rather, there is an array immediately following the struct. :P
< 1276744044 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah
< 1276744046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, it *is* type[], not type[0].
< 1276744066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type[0] is the GCC extension that does the same exact thing, but is older than C99.
< 1276744080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more fun is when LLVM or clang do the same thing on their own in C++ by allocating excess memory
< 1276744342 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the Unicode guys accidentally gave two characters the same official name?
< 1276744350 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Names are supposed to be immutable.
< 1276744357 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't
< 1276744371 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would show up when they tried to write the files and test them
< 1276744372 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did produce a character called a BRAKCET.
< 1276744384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Unicode database would break.
< 1276744394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do realise they manage it programatically, right? ;)
< 1276744435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can't guarantee correct spelling *trivially*. (well, they couldn't then; no easy spellchecker libraries around then. Can now.) But uniqueness of names? Piece of cake.
< 1276744440 0 :uorygl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true.
< 1276744447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fundamental to how they manage it anyways.
< 1276745071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276745078 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276748501 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDCurses just made programmign fun again.
< 1276748507 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming*
< 1276748516 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently you've never used Haskell
< 1276748541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly.
< 1276748564 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276748568 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guessing Haskell is fun to program in?
< 1276748582 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276748663 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, but do you have nice buzz words like getch and refresh in haskel?? XD
< 1276748671 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell?*
< 1276748799 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have monads
< 1276748806 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1276748840 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads soounds like go......DAD!
< 1276748849 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's it!  Totally not somethign else!
< 1276749110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leBMD: Haskell has evolved beyond buzzwords and into pure amazingness.
< 1276749112 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276749130 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol
< 1276749132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is purely functional with first-class imperative actions.
< 1276751084 0 :Miriah!~Miriah@adsl-89-10-17.mgm.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276751118 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello.. o.o
< 1276751174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello there.
< 1276751187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The topic, though amusing, is made of lies.
< 1276751428 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1276751439 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made of lies?
< 1276751473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. We're into esoteric programming languages.
< 1276751489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise? Eh.
< 1276751708 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh.. Thanks for letting me know.
< 1276751744 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I'm going to go then. ^^;
< 1276751744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the "government conspiracies" thing does at least have relation with a piece of collaborative fiction that many of us here enjoy...
< 1276751751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, SCP. Great reading.
< 1276751784 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds interesting.. What exactly is SCP?
< 1276751850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Serve Contain Protect". It's a wiki containing fictional documents claiming to describe the classified means of containing various magical/supernatural/holy items, most of which are incredibly dangerous.
< 1276751881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the raison d'etre of this channel or anything. Just something I've noted a few people here read on occasion.
< 1276752368 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading about it now.. Is it the SCP foundation?
< 1276752384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh.
< 1276752918 0 :augur!~augur@pool-74-96-22-88.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276752945 0 :Oranjer1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276753087 0 :Miriah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: The very ink with which all history is written is merely fluid prejudice.   -- Mark Twain
< 1276753093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ?
< 1276753105 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much lawls :P
< 1276753109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas.
< 1276753435 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's all my fault 8-D
< 1276753756 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276753788 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276754755 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276755981 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null
< 1276756177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276756270 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276756296 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276756328 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-192-87.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276756920 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276757020 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276757918 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey.
< 1276757923 0 :SevenInc1Bread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet
< 1276757938 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving
< 1276758149 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276758349 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276759117 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276759493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In real mode you can use the segment registers as general purpose registers, but it is not optimal. But you can do that if you run out of registers
< 1276759514 0 :leBMD!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276759561 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While solitaire games can be made in PySol, but in my opinion a better way would be like this:  http://sprunge.us/aLMb
< 1276760084 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276760204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Do you? **Do you?**
< 1276760357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES
< 1276760358 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO
< 1276760359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DONT KNOW
< 1276760360 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE
< 1276760363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO I WHAT
< 1276760364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?!
< 1276760366 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D:
< 1276760381 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you While solitaire games can be made in PySol, but in my opinion a better way would be like this:  http://sprunge.us/aLMb
< 1276760387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1276760388 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1276760388 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no
< 1276760405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: No way!
< 1276760427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why?
< 1276760438 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like your opinion about this
< 1276760559 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you know anything about GNU compiler front-ends?
< 1276760706 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that LLVM ones are easier to write
< 1276760721 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beyond that, i know nothing
< 1276760728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that it's all undocumented.
< 1276760747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that I would rather use a spork on my eyes than write one.
< 1276760758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, I forgot about that
< 1276760760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely
< 1276760795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Chris Lattner
< 1276761078 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276761185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you done LLVM?
< 1276761296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LLVM's API is a bit annoying if you're not into C++.
< 1276761357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you can also treat LLVM as just another assembly language. One which happens to possess its own optimiser and machine code generator...
< 1276761599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended
< 1276761600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276762239 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276762247 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276762671 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276763106 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276763222 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276763725 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276764158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276764848 0 :waga!5c564ecb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.86.78.203 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276764849 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276765476 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo??
< 1276765482 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone?
< 1276765579 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoooooo??????
< 1276765618 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks everybody has gone to the watercooler
< 1276765703 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that now everybody has gone to the WC
< 1276766432 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that now everybody felt in the WC because of the wet floor and died from 
< 1276766627 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shouts
< 1276766633 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams
< 1276766638 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhh
< 1276766667 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH
< 1276766701 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bangs he's had
< 1276766918 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276767073 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1276767346 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi
< 1276767359 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be one of the survivors ^^
< 1276767896 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, almost everybody just ate too many carbs for lunch and are now in semi-coma... :->
< 1276767957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, any esolang ideas? :-)
< 1276768155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276768379 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well
< 1276768381 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine sucks
< 1276768395 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a tree brainfuck
< 1276768396 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/SLmjDXPk
< 1276768426 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do ýou think?
< 1276768461 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not quite fond of it... Maybe I'll get a better idea these day's.
< 1276768525 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276768661 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEWS: i made an update
< 1276768675 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anybody not in semi-coma?
< 1276768691 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/7zwCJ3JT
< 1276768695 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update
< 1276768963 0 :waga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276772439 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1276774959 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B14D00B.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276775643 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out
< 1276775740 0 :MALDEK!~MALDEK@d050104.adsl.hansenet.de JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276775765 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oo
< 1276775861 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276775886 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�
< 1276775908 0 :base3_!~base3@host109-152-205-18.range109-152.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276775924 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone on?
< 1276776309 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276776765 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276776864 0 :base3_!~base3@78.146.165.225 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276777207 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276777273 0 :MALDEK!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276782223 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276783556 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-18-65.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276783585 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds
< 1276783590 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu
< 1276783894 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276783897 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, i had an idea
< 1276783912 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, scratch that, im not saying it out loud :P
< 1276783917 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ill probably never finish it
< 1276783920 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276789495 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what
< 1276789497 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man what
< 1276789548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some guy asked his school to make the school's bell
< 1276789555 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a part of "Never Gonna Give You Up"
< 1276789558 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...THEY ACCEPTED IT.
< 1276789574 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the guys and girls in that school are tormented EVERY. DAY (Except Sundays. And maybe Saturdays.)
< 1276789698 0 :Tonio!~antoine@ABayonne-152-1-52-236.w83-193.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276789716 0 :Tonio!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FrenchFigaro
< 1276789719 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276789731 0 :FrenchFigaro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1276789989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: now that is epic rickrolling
< 1276790683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276791405 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way of getting gcc to produce unformatted binary?
< 1276791417 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. not ELF or anything like it.
< 1276791449 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: An x86 *.COM file?
< 1276791466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effectively.
< 1276791468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's as close to "unformatted" as I imagine something like gcc could do.
< 1276791477 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have no idea if it can, sorry :)
< 1276791492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use NASM when I want one of those ;)
< 1276791497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, callable by a bootloader with a minimum of fuss.
< 1276791671 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking about it, I really doubt gcc can do that.  It needs, or at least really really really wants, to link in libc.
< 1276791690 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And linking things into a .COM file is not a problem that anyone want to try solving.
< 1276791759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can produce an object file from GCC, then objcopy it into a binary blob; but you'd need an object file with no relocations at all for that.
< 1276791791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"objcopy can be used to generate a raw binary file by using an output target of binary (e.g., use -O binary). When objcopy generates a raw binary file, it will essentially produce a memory dump of the contents of the input object file. All symbols and relocation information will be discarded. The memory dump will start at the load address of the lowest section copied into the output file."
< 1276791857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Load address of the lowest section?
< 1276791864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh.
< 1276791868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get it now.
< 1276791897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you can use GCC perfectly well without libc.
< 1276791923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A linked executable typically only works when loaded into a particular address (or relocated dynamically, I guess).
< 1276792071 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sorry, I think I meant libcrt0, or whatever it's called.
< 1276792080 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I assume you're using it to compile a C program.
< 1276792116 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's like, a "compiler collection" these days, or something, so I guess you could be doing pretty much anything with it.
< 1276792118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nostdlib skips also the standard startup files.
< 1276792120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does libcrt do?
< 1276792134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use GCC relatively easily as a "freestanding" compiler.
< 1276792148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the bits from _start to main, basically.
< 1276792359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, just a simple "gcc -o test test.c -nostdlib -Wl,--oformat=binary -Wl,--entry=entrypoint" will create a file "test" that seems to (according to ndisasm) start with reasonable compiled code, though it does have some extraneous useless data too. You could possibly get better results by compiling to a normal ELF executable, then objcopying only selected sections.
< 1276792479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would mean the code would expect to be loaded to whatever the normal linker specs files say, probably at 0x400000 on Linux. And you'd need to objdump the proper empty point out of the ELF headers, it definitely isn't guaranteed to end up at the start of the object file.
< 1276792530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am duly impressed.
< 1276792532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very difficult to write a linker script + specs for GNU ld such that it will put all symbols into a single section with a particular load address.
< 1276792565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While the forum has several flamewars about BASIC, it is a turing-complete language."
< 1276792579 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we can be pedantic about this.
< 1276792617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Sure, I'll pedantically defend that BASIC is TC :)
< 1276792627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK.
< 1276792637 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it specify a sizeof operator?
< 1276792694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of.  Some variants of BASIC for some 8-bit home computers might have -- FRE(x) returning the amount of free memory is reminiscent.
< 1276792769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has strings, and garbage collection.  You can say A$=A$+"." until the cows come home.
< 1276792829 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices the cows came hme
< 1276792831 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices the cows came home*
< 1276792843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Actually, if you want to generate a binary file that will actually have a particular function at the very beginning, you can do that pretty easily too. Just mark the function with __attribute__ ((section (".init"))) and instruct the linker to put that section first. The custom start files I have for Nintendo DS do it like that (except the entry point is in a asm file, not with a GCC function attribute), because you can
< 1276792843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t really tell the DS boot loader where to start from, it'll start at the beginning of the loaded code always.
< 1276792875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you probably need big ints to actually _use_ most of those unbounded string parts, don't you?
< 1276792903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or wait
< 1276792905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LEFT$(X$,6) and RIGHT$(X,6) will let you write a cyclic tag system
< 1276792915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 being a small integer of your choice
< 1276792936 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC, TC through cyclic tag.  ugh.
< 1276792960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hm right, assuming right$(X,6) is everything from index 6 until the end?
< 1276792967 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there's magic and magick
< 1276792974 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call basic baSICK
< 1276792981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I thought it was the rightmost 6 characters, but it *has* been a long time.
< 1276793003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um that's not enough for a cyclic tag system then
< 1276793019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to be able to _remove_ parts
< 1276793020 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I always wanted to design a language called SICKBAY, that was BASIC, inverted...
< 1276793060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hm.  Then yes.  I think some BASICs supported RIGHT$(X$,1)="" or similar, but I don't think of it as standard.
< 1276793089 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to implement a compilable esolang of sorts for the C64
< 1276793090 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err
< 1276793092 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the 6502*
< 1276793106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall a MID$() function
< 1276793121 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no prohibition against bigints, as far as I'm aware: numbers are floating point, and it's not like the floating point limits were specified.
< 1276793133 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MID$() would need big ints to get to arb parts of the str
< 1276793155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i was just wondering if MID$ took until the end of the string if you dropped the last argument
< 1276793163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then it could be used
< 1276793166 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it does.
< 1276793180 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, LEFT$(MID$(X$,N),1)
< 1276793181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)
< 1276793183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as what i thought you meant by the RIGHT$())
< 1276793230 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, LEFT$(MID$(X$,N),1) = MID$(X$,N,1)
< 1276793237 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m, confused.
< 1276793238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also do stacks and thus a BF tape easily with those
< 1276793259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MID$(X$,2) to pop
< 1276793296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276793523 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I've thought about that (compiled esolang for 6502), too, but I can never seem to combine my interests in esolangs AND 8-bits for some reason.
< 1276793578 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like they are both beautiful microworlds to me, but they're not compatible culturally somehow.
< 1276793621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This may be useful for something: http://pastebin.com/214g1HHW -- it's possible (untested) that would produce a binary file that you can load to 0x1234 (customizable) and which will contain the special ".init" section first, then the code and initialized data, and uninitialized .bss section stuff immediately after. Your loader would need to zero from __bss_start to __bss_end (symbols defined by the linker) for uninitia
< 1276793621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lized data to work right, though.
< 1276793763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/loader/whatever's in the .init section/; of course the loader can't see the linker-defined symbols anywhere.
< 1276793927 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to be duly impressed by fizzie coaxing what is almost a .COM file out of gcc/ld.
< 1276793936 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276793999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was quickly adapted from the DS stuff I had, so it's not very concise. You don't actually need a "MEMORY" section there, for example, especially when there's only one type of memory.
< 1276794009 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276794033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 0x1234 load-address could be directly between .text and :.
< 1276794143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And that was adapted from the even messier "devkitPro"/libnds DS toolkittery.)
< 1276794197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I should sit down and figure out how to write x86-64 code.
< 1276794269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used any of this on x86; there if I've needed to write a raw binary, I've just used "nasm -f bin" instead of trying to (ab)use C + gcc.
< 1276794278 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, knowing x86 code would be helpful in that...
< 1276794333 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276794363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, or not.  Maybe I'll just stick with pure ol' 8086, and continue to consider 386 instructions "indulgent".
< 1276794397 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of writing ASM with macros that must be valid x86 and x64 code.
< 1276794400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The devkitPro/libnds variants waste some amount of complexity in trying to make even C++ code work; there's all kinds of global constructor/destructor tables and whatevers. Oh, and some RTTI support machinery too, I think.
< 1276794416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For assembly code, I vastly prefer 6502 programming at this point anyway... it's more fun.
< 1276794445 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course had macros for wordsize registers.
< 1276794471 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main limitation I ran was that one can't directly push 32-bit quantities to stack.
< 1276794529 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One had to 'SUB WSP, 4; MOV [WSP], EAX' (it got even worse with memory)...
< 1276794548 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1276794565 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, cpressey, i love 6502 assembly
< 1276794694 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm waiting for the 3DS
< 1276794704 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will be the best machine to homebrewhack. ever.
< 1276794719 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you do you get a 3D platform that more than 10000 people ow
< 1276794720 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :own*
< 1276794722 0 :base3_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276794725 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grumble that Linux/x64 doesn't seem to have working a.out...
< 1276794759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there something wrong with ELF?
< 1276794836 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a.out is much simpler if one wants to make the headers. :-)
< 1276794877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ELF with minimal fuss is not *that* complex, even if compilers do make very complicated-looking ELF files.
< 1276794886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't bother linking to that tiny-elf thing again, but still.
< 1276794898 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276794899 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it supports a.out at all, but the default map limit of 65536 is too high for a.out...
< 1276794925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Are you on IPv6?
< 1276794978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like 6to4, based on the 2002::/16 prefix and an IPv4-address-like following 4 bytes.
< 1276794991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes.
< 1276795031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get on IPv6?
< 1276795037 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is fizzie also on IPv6? How common is IPv6 now? I still don't have IPv6
< 1276795070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone with a public IPv4 address can use 6to4; there are various tunnel brokers (like sixxs.net); and some ISPs, like mine, do it natively.
< 1276795137 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Linux/x64 does support a.out for at least 32-bit, but programs instacrash because of map limits.
< 1276795175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6to4 assings a few (1208925819614629174706176) IPv6 addresses to each IPv4 address (2002:aabb:ccdd::/48 for IPv4 a.b.c.d).
< 1276795193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That might not conform to canonical definitions of "few".
< 1276795248 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have IPv6, but that is OK for now, most things don't require IPv6. Later on we can have more IPv6.
< 1276795536 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reducing map limit to 4096 allows Linux/x86 QMAGIC a.outs to load on Linux/x64.
< 1276795656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276795889 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i wonder if this zzo38 is the same zzo38 behind the MegaZeux fork adding Forth support to it
< 1276795972 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276796143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276796190 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only Forth?  Not a TADS interpreter too?  :)
< 1276796222 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Yes it is the same zzo38
< 1276796261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need to add a TADS interpreter to MegaZeux!
< 1276796310 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth support is not the only thing I added to MegaZeux, I also fixed some bugs and did some other things as well, such as the floating status bar for the editor, and some additional keyboard commands in the editor, the old ALT+D function, and some more
< 1276796508 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-89-227.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276796654 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, in fact, I am still working on fixing some additional things in MegaZeux
< 1276796955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How interesting are you people in Forth programming?
< 1276797033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned a few days ago that I'm a Forth hypocrite: I highly admire the language principles but I have done very little coding in Forth proper.
< 1276797085 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a lot of RPN coding at one point, but it was in a different language which was only Forth-inspired.
< 1276797135 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276797257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OK. I have done a few things in Forth, and writing some Forth interpreters for various things, too, but when I make up the new computer (it will have new kind of hardware design as well as new software design), it will have Forth interpreter built-in, as well as a program to convert BASIC codes to Forth codes (so that game programs in old books will run), and many of the games on the DVD, I might write it myself, using Forth.
< 1276797360 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds
< 1276797409 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276797417 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and you hoped i was gone forever
< 1276797499 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276797518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello people, why all the silene
< 1276797522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-typo
< 1276797634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello
< 1276797722 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would perhaps like to do some day, is to write a solitaire card program in Forth, that might accept a code like that http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/misc/more_misc/forsol.txt
< 1276797761 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think?
< 1276797847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm watching stuff, can't say anything coherent about anything
< 1276797867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't get it
< 1276797883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276797891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do solitaire card programs do
< 1276797933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, like PySol you can play solitaire card game, but with Forth codes instead
< 1276797953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno pysol
< 1276798001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PySol you can write a ruleset plugin code such as: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/ruleset/
< 1276798007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a example you can see
< 1276798125 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276798366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have movie-time service in my computer, but it is broken now  http://code.google.com/p/aenext-tickit-cinema-api/wiki/UserGuide it now has a new domain-name, but this new one doesn't work either
< 1276798400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds
< 1276798401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It would be cool if was more general than just solitaire, but that's asking a lot.  What processor is your computer designed around, by the way?
< 1276798471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You mean the new computer hardware I mentioned? It is based on multiple processors, the main one is ARM-11
< 1276798491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is also a DSP (it is some Texas Instruments DSP).
< 1276798510 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice.
< 1276798523 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written down most of the stuff now, but I have not actually built it yet because the people who help don't have time to get the parts, so some of the hardware design might change in the future.
< 1276798636 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you know about ARM instruction prefetching? Because I am having some problem with that. I would hook the high address bit to a flip-flop, which is then connected to the NMI, and all system calls go through the NMI (both called by software, and the ones called by hardware). But if there is prefetch would the NMI ever be called too early?
< 1276798788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And do you know how to fix my movie-time service? It used to work. (The things suggesting in the documentation won't help) This is the codes I currently have: http://sprunge.us/MfCT
< 1276799072 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection
< 1276799329 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@a91-153-122-35.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276799342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my internet ran away but i caught it
< 1276799395 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back
< 1276799976 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, pikhq isn't here.
< 1276800002 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know where he keeps his Brainfuck compiler?
< 1276800040 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, a BF compiler is simpler than 2+2
< 1276800047 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it
< 1276800051 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1276800054 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for 6502's
< 1276800072 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you're compiling to
< 1276800083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to bf it's really easy
< 1276800128 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-173-202-45.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276800208 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You were talking about pikhq 5 minutes ago
< 1276800210 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :werent you?
< 1276800210 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P
< 1276800232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imma beat him.
< 1276800251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said bad things about you
< 1276800256 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example
< 1276800263 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well
< 1276800265 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wont say any
< 1276800271 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly because oklopol is a liar
< 1276800302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276800307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always lie
< 1276800317 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Damn, pikhq isn't here.
< 1276800317 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<Phantom_Hoover> Anyone know where he keeps his Brainfuck compiler?
< 1276800320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY
< 1276800324 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE SWEARED IN THE SAME LINE HE SAID YOUR NAME
< 1276800327 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE'S EEEEVIL
< 1276800510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Evil" is incapable of describing me.
< 1276800601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracles actually is on topic here
< 1276800603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I can't get to it right now. Sorry.
< 1276800611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOO!
< 1276800614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also not changed the past... Month?
< 1276800624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, perhaps that's too melodramatic
< 1276800628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i interpreted that as "i don't have the time to tell you where it is right now"
< 1276800668 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, time wasting or time well using?
< 1276800684 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to choose an activity
< 1276801306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasting!
< 1276801410 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276801419 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol
< 1276801423 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i am not sure which one is better
< 1276801425 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what's with assembly resources which insist upon mixing Intel and AT&T syntax?
< 1276801427 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer a compromise
< 1276801429 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIME WELL WASTING!
< 1276801438 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i insist upon screwing both, Phantom
< 1276801537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, but do it *consistently*.
< 1276801954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i decided to spend my time well, you were too slow
< 1276801968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well well and well. relatively well
< 1276802060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a well of relativity
< 1276802066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka black hole
< 1276802519 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276803399 0 :chuck!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276805025 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds
< 1276805135 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-143-87.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276805485 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting
< 1276805500 0 :hiato!~nine@41-132-143-87.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276805748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds
< 1276806603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc5-sgyl29-2-0-cust220.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276806875 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds
< 1276807407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are x86 32-bit protected mode segments just offsets?
< 1276807500 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also have sizes and types and possibly other fluff.
< 1276807545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Privilege fluff, at least.
< 1276807837 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit segment descriptors are 64 bits.
< 1276807936 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contains at least limit, base address (32 bits), type, priviledges and some flags...
< 1276808129 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read Intel architecture manuals (IIRC, its in first systems programming part) if you want to know more.
< 1276808248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there? Can you link me to the last version of your closure in C stuff?
< 1276808304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm, found it locally in ~/irc/freenode/esoteric/pikhq
< 1276808523 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... That 'astrology' part reminds me of that picture with text 'astrology is bull'... :-)
< 1276808701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, so address B in a segment with value A is at A+B?
< 1276808776 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly (A*n)+B where n is ... a small power of two?
< 1276808788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, why is your hat collection limited? I'm unable to find any message about it on the page
< 1276808796 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, If segment base is A and offset is B, it gets mapped to A+B for paging (if paging is used, if not, thats physical address).
< 1276808840 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that e.g. gates ignore the offset in request (and supply their own).
< 1276808855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is new to this really low-level stuff
< 1276808863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To clarify: it's not A that's in the segment selector registers. The registers just contain (basically) indices to GDT/LDT tables.
< 1276808883 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276808890 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three cheers for indirection!
< 1276808898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "value of A".
< 1276808934 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The way it is really implemented is that each segment register has shadow registers containing the descriptor values. Write to segment register reloads those from LDT or GDT (or in case of real mode from fixed defaults).
< 1276808935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty ambiguous still.
< 1276808935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i recall n was originally 16 in 8088
< 1276808951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts
< 1276809012 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's actually a few different "last version"s out there. :P
< 1276809013 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: In real mode, loading segment register loads fixed values (that depend on value loaded) to segment descriptor. The base address is indeed 16 * selector (limit is 65535).
< 1276809032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay... which one should I use?
< 1276809036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus 16*65536 = 1 Mb max memory and that infamous 640 Kb limit once you removed some reserved stuff, or something like that
< 1276809077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm... Probably either the C one with the lambda lists or the one that's part of the SKI interpreter.
< 1276809081 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun trick: One can return from protected mode only reloading CS (you don't need to reload other registers). And if you don't reload them, the descriptors are still valid!
< 1276809082 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes.  The reserved stuff was video RAM IIRC.
< 1276809087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Also the funny thing that a000:0010 and a001:0000 point to the same location in memory, but can easily in a C implementation be two pointers that are !=.
< 1276809088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm
< 1276809092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I need closures
< 1276809100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just lambdas
< 1276809110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... They all close.
< 1276809135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It's not all video RAM; but a big part of it is.
< 1276809142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, wasn't sure
< 1276809147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rather, they all *allow* for closures.
< 1276809158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to manually close.
< 1276809164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1276809174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, didn't it use some GCC extension for it?
< 1276809186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was to have anonymous functions.
< 1276809200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah, so how do you manually close?
< 1276809231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, brb, phone
< 1276809238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The VGA graphics mode memory is at a0000..affff, monochrome modes live at b0000..b7fff, color text mode in b8000..b8fff, the VGA video BIOS at c0000..c7fff, and system BIOS ROM at f0000..fffff.
< 1276809267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The macros for creating a closure take an closed-vars variable (as a void*). This gets passed to the closure when you call it using the call macro.
< 1276809268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's some unused bits and add-on card ROM/RAM/whatevers.
< 1276809275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the first argument.
< 1276809306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you need to do is stick what you want to close over into a data type on the heap.
< 1276809315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd been using arrays.
< 1276809346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember having something like DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\EMM386.EXE NOEMS I=B000-B7FF in some autoexec.bat or another; it's safe as long as you don't ever go into a monochrome video mode.
< 1276809349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OOC, in the GDT are the full base addresses stored?  Or is there still a small n multiplier like 16 to get the read base address?  If you said, I missed it.
< 1276809371 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: They are in segment descriptors.
< 1276809384 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: There's space for full 32 bits.
< 1276809387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the descriptor includes a full 32-bit address, yes.
< 1276809398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, thanks.
< 1276809430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The limit has only 20 bits, but you can optionally multiply it with 4096.
< 1276809439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("limit" being the size of the segment.)
< 1276809481 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-132-143-87.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276809482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The descriptor format is nicely messy: http://zem.fi/~fis/segdesc.png
< 1276809501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially how the address and limit bits are "interlaced" like that.
< 1276809509 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practically: Enter protected mode, create descriptor with base 0, limit FFFFF, data, writable, present, granularity, DPL 3, 32-bit. Load it into FS or GS and return to real mode. Now FS/GS can access entiere physical memory space.
< 1276809527 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That works as long nothing reloads FS or GS.
< 1276809531 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what the human race gets for trying to solve problems in hardware.
< 1276809556 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit
< 1276809563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari_antrcomp: I don't suppose you have a lucidly-commented public-domain NASM version of that statement, do you? :)
< 1276809572 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-132-143-87.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276809574 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope.
< 1276809582 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds
< 1276809617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shucks.  Well, much as I for some reason want to play with >386, I don't have the time to, anyway.
< 1276809724 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: It isn't hard anyway. That segment descriptor data can be hardcoded.
< 1276809831 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Code-wise, I think it is: Read CR0, flip PE bit and write CR0. Then load GDTR with fixed table, load GS, restore CR0 to way it was and do far jump to reload CS.
< 1276809862 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, disabling interrupts while that is done might be good idea.
< 1276809902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The particular trick is also called with a rather punny name, "unreal mode".
< 1276809910 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup.
< 1276809913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_mode
< 1276809950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a really quick glance, http://www.bryantmcgill.com/technology/pascal-delphi/Memory_Manage/Access_FLAT_memory_in_REAL_Mode_by_HERMAN_DULLINK.html has some code examples.
< 1276809971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It also has some syntax-highlighting applied to the text, which makes it really ugly.)
< 1276810004 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh nice, thank you.
< 1276810025 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Killing the CSS makes it readable.
< 1276810040 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problems with >64KiB code stay, but at least one can access extended memory easily.
< 1276810132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, except that the actual related code seems to be encoded with something really weird; I at least don't have a "xx3402" decoder handy.
< 1276810144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure someone's done a better example somewhere.
< 1276810220 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one does a .com program, that trick can sure be done in <256 bytes, leaving 65kB for other code...
< 1276810283 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even 400KiB is a lot when one doesn't have to use it for data, only code.
< 1276810340 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276810369 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unreal_mode is categorized under "Programming language implementation"
< 1276810505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65K would be plenty for an interpreter or VM tightly coded in assembly...
< 1276810540 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nasty hack to get rid of code limits: Code swapping... :-)
< 1276810543 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, CPUs are more complex than I thought.
< 1276810565 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-243-203-81.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276810570 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari_antrcomp: Overlays!  :)
< 1276810577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that Nethack's real-mode version used some overlays.
< 1276810594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I've seen it claimed in a couple of places that the XOR swap algorithm doesn't work when the swapees are equal.
< 1276810608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though this is obviously wrong.
< 1276810686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That probably depends whether by "equal" you mean "equal values" or "equal addresses".
< 1276810699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Speaking of processors, remember that thing about RAM not being zero'ed on startup, we talked about yesterday?  Well, a similar thing applies to CPU's.  If you turn on power to a chip like a Z80 "too quickly", it starts up in a random, confused state...
< 1276810722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just something that's interesting -- nothing you have to worry about for a bootloader.
< 1276810733 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah.
< 1276810747 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of tales about strange problems caused by using uninitialized RAM (in embedded system).
< 1276810790 0 :Ilari_antrcomp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out temperature affects what values RAM gets when power is turned on.
< 1276810840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Temperature also affects how long DRAM chips store the values they had before power-cutoff.
< 1276810843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Interestingly, if you cool the DRAM chips, for example by spraying inverted cans of "canned air" dusting spray on them, the chips will retain their contents for much longer. At these temperatures (around -50 °C) you can remove the chips from the computer and let them sit on the table for ten minutes or more, without appreciable loss of data."
< 1276810874 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes sense, thermodynamically, I suppose.
< 1276810878 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three cheers for entropy!
< 1276810884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physics, the bane of all computer scientists.
< 1276810896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really should get rid of it.
< 1276811005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even remotely recent at this point in time, but http://citp.princeton.edu/memory/ was still a nice read.
< 1276811211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there?
< 1276811215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes
< 1276811224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :busy trying to optimize a Java program to reduce its memory usage
< 1276811251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mentioned you played nwn recently, I managed to get legally hold of a copy, someone I know in RL didn't play it any longer. :)
< 1276811262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no idea why, seems a quite nice game)
< 1276811263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276811268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a couple of years ago, you could still buy it in the shops
< 1276811273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however it is bloody hard to be a true neutral fighter
< 1276811274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the price had dropped really low
< 1276811277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was the first thing I tried
< 1276811287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to either go towards evil or good all the time :/
< 1276811287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you recruited a henchman?
< 1276811298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yep, hard to maintain neutrality
< 1276811304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alignment tends to work pretty badly in every game in existence.
< 1276811315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily in NWN it's mostly irrelevant
< 1276811316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think it is based on DnD 3 here
< 1276811327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well not for paladins and such iirc?
< 1276811328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it screws up your levelling options
< 1276811330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be neutral, you'll have to keep doing obviously kill-the-kittens evil acts as well as goody-two-shoes acts in approximately equal amounts.
< 1276811340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, how many times can you level up?
< 1276811358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original campaign caps at level 20, so 19
< 1276811366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the expansions has a much higher cap
< 1276811410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to a recent let's-play I read (I think it was NWN2, though), it's also not so easy to be lawful-evil, since the evil stuff seems to mostly be completely psychotic murdering.
< 1276811417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I find the whole thing very limited. In many other games I tend to play rather something of a generalist than a specialist.
< 1276811428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the multiclassing options doesn't seem very good
< 1276811437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not so bad at higher levels, or playing something less boring than fighter
< 1276811443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, far too limiting wrt armour (for wiz/fighter)
< 1276811447 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds
< 1276811462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my current NWN playthrough uses a medium-armour bard
< 1276811471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds.... spoony?
< 1276811477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I have two NWN1-original copies; got one for free with a display card, and then (much) later it was a lot cheaper to buy some sort of "diamond collection" of the base game + expansions than try to find the expansions separately.
< 1276811486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or aren't they useless there?
< 1276811489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, cast loads of buffs after resting
< 1276811496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then become a fighter who signs
< 1276811498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sings
< 1276811507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to prefer fighter + some small amount of magic
< 1276811515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but the 20 levels caps make it very hard
< 1276811520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get anything usable out of that
< 1276811531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wow, you seem something like a munchkin
< 1276811534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :level 20 is easily overpowered
< 1276811544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: pick up 1 level of sor, maybe 5 of fighter, and use scrolls to casr
< 1276811545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cast
< 1276811546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, I guess I'm used to other games where it isn't then
< 1276811556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the six-second available-almost-anywhere resting of NWN2 (I seem to recall NWN1 was very similar) made spellcasting pretty kill-o-tronic.
< 1276811565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, considering nethack for example
< 1276811572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is D&D
< 1276811575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also silly-looking, since the guy just sort of stands there for a moment.
< 1276811582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're expected to complete the game around lv. 16 to 18
< 1276811588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yes. I was just considering what splitting the max level in half for nethack would do
< 1276811592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it has been completed a lot later
< 1276811596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is effectively what you do with multiclass no?
< 1276811597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and NetHack is perfectly completable at lv. 14
< 1276811626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not for a wizard
< 1276811639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even for a wizard, although they like levelling up high more than other classes
< 1276811649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most classes, going beyond lv. 14 isn't even recommended
< 1276811655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about tou? I can't imagine that at lv. 14!
< 1276811662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the benefits aren't large enough to outweight the higher generation of more powerful enemies
< 1276811668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck I wouldn't consider tou something I could pull of at all
< 1276811678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are the extra levels going to do for tou?
< 1276811686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all tou cares about it equipment, pretty much
< 1276811690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true
< 1276811697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's independent of level
< 1276811702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay arc then?
< 1276811703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope "munchkin" has some technical meaning I'm missing, here.
< 1276811712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, yes? what else would it have?
< 1276811743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: someone who tries to create a character much more powerful than is necessary
< 1276811747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a roleplaying game
< 1276811778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, since I won't do multiplayer anyway it is hardly an issue really
< 1276811785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time someone says "munchkin", my mind immediately replies "you must face the gazebo alone".
< 1276811802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep, in a computer game it makes sense
< 1276811807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, besides it can be a nice strategy first time you play a game, before you learnt it..
< 1276811850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway if you divide the 20 levels into two halfs, 10 fighter, 10 something-that-can-cast-spells, both would be rather limited, no?
< 1276811875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in terms of fighting potential
< 1276811882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of casting, yes to some extent, but that's what you have items for
< 1276811890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm
< 1276811900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 levels of a pure caster will make you decent at level 5 spells, you can use scrolls for the really powerful effects
< 1276811909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but level 5 is easily enough to cast a whole bunch of decent buffs
< 1276811909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also, from some quick reading the magic system seems.... complex?
< 1276811923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the D&D magic system
< 1276811927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, buffs?
< 1276811936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange term?
< 1276811945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: spells designed to be targeted at yourself or an ally
< 1276811952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally that give immunities or boost stats
< 1276811987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term I remember for that, from my D&D days, at least for the character, was "sick pig".
< 1276811988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if you want to deal with some 30 zombies at once. Which I had the nasty surprise of meeting around one corner in that beggers-whatever area of the town
< 1276811992 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May have been a local term.
< 1276812007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they're zombies?
< 1276812014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kill them all at range before they reach you
< 1276812016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or kill them one at a time
< 1276812020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but how
< 1276812025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bows and arrows?
< 1276812028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, they're zombies
< 1276812032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll go down in a couple of hits
< 1276812035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, picking them off one by one?
< 1276812035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and take ages to reach you
< 1276812040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems... inefficient
< 1276812042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can always run away to maintain range
< 1276812050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, get a cleric henchman to turn them
< 1276812061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not inefficient really
< 1276812067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what level would a decent cone type of spell be?
< 1276812090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a couple of usable cone-type spells at level 1
< 1276812095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276812109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main advantage of higher spell levels for actual attacking is higher damage caps
< 1276812109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw can you have more than one henchman? and then what is the limit?
< 1276812116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the one henchman at a time
< 1276812118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276812122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a control nightmare otherwise
< 1276812130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can also have a familiar or animal companion, and a summoned creature
< 1276812131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um, they seem to run on a crude AI?
< 1276812144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yup, the AI isn't ideal, but you can help it out to some extent
< 1276812177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also write some own AI scripts if you really feel like it.
< 1276812179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it seems to work pretty well. except somewhat stupidly at understanding when it should disarm or pick stuff (I took that rouge near the start as the henchman)
< 1276812191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wouldn't that be cheating?
< 1276812211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modding the game is half the fun, although it would be, yes
< 1276812219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun to play both modified and unmodified
< 1276812222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm
< 1276812238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where does one do that btw?
< 1276812254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a toolset, although there isn't a Linux version of it
< 1276812262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recently it runs moderately well in WINE, though
< 1276812275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, there's loads of bugs you have to work around with the toolset under WINE, but it's not so bad it's unusable
< 1276812297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what file name? or is the binary not included in the linux bit of the thing?
< 1276812322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filename's NWTOOLSET.EXE IIRC
< 1276812331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's on the Windows disk, not the Linux download
< 1276812331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bundled on the disc, but since there's no Linux version, I doubt they include it in the Linux resources package.
< 1276812333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being a Windows program
< 1276812334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah
< 1276812338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that explains it
< 1276812365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: was that in the card game? i seem to recall a gazebo in it
< 1276812371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night
< 1276812395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, those expansions you mentioned, any good?
< 1276812404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Yes, "you must face the gazebo alone" is on the card text.
< 1276812418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what game?
< 1276812423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, I haven't installed them
< 1276812425 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Munchkin.
< 1276812429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a game called Munchkin
< 1276812433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that
< 1276812434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right
< 1276812438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: At least we've interpreted it to mean that you are not allowed to have any other player help you during that battle, but I'm not sure if that's an actual rule.
< 1276812447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think it is an actual rule
< 1276812451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's how our group interprets it too
< 1276812460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gazebo? As an enemy?
< 1276812470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you bought it?
< 1276812472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1276812480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.boardgamegeek.com/images/pic408155_md.jpg has a picture of it. (It's actually a Lightning Fast, Enraged, Gazebo.)
< 1276812497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you don't know the Gazebo Story, look it up
< 1276812516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be one of those urban legends that has spread to most of the gaming groups in the world via word of mouth, as I've heard it from several different sources
< 1276812521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link?
< 1276812530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have one
< 1276812532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you don't do links I won't do google ;P
< 1276812538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html
< 1276812540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to balance things out
< 1276812541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example.
< 1276812542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thanks
< 1276812544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in very many places.
< 1276812548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed it would be
< 1276812627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha
< 1276812632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia's link (from the "Eric and the Gazebo" article) would have been to dreadgazebo.com, which would have been more appropriate.
< 1276812643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there's even a Wikipedia page about it?
< 1276812665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Tale of Eric and the Dread Gazebo is a role-playing game (RPG) anecdote, made famous by Richard Aronson --"
< 1276812667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure.
< 1276812682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even a picture of a gazebo on the page.
< 1276812688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Encyclopedic!
< 1276812701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD
< 1276812713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what appears to be a plot summary.
< 1276812723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k8temp-pci-00c3
< 1276812723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adapter: PCI adapter
< 1276812723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core0 Temp:  +77.0°C
< 1276812725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp1:       +36.0°C  (high = +50.0°C, hyst = +45.0°C)  sensor = thermistor
< 1276812732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are from different sensors
< 1276812735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are supposed to be CPU
< 1276812739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes no sense
< 1276812747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus the former depends on cpu freq
< 1276812752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lm-sensors gets confused quite often.
< 1276812753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty funny
< 1276812796 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motherboard manufacturers who use the same sensor-chipsets opt to stick in different sorts of resistors. The sensors.conf examples typically have lots of commented-out "on this and this you maybe have to divide the values by 7.6".
< 1276812805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I'm just worried about the 77 C one being correct. Since it is the CPU-internal one
< 1276812811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does jump with CPU freq
< 1276812830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "substract 20, double, add add 40" or such it sems
< 1276812836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 45*
< 1276812837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 40
< 1276812847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+36 sounds a more likely temperature, though you'd usually assume k8temp to be reliable.
< 1276812882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get +36.0 and +38.0 from k8temp-pci-00c3 for the two cores here.
< 1276812889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes but the k8temp varies with cpu frequency in a way that seems implausible. As in directly after a speed switch it jumps sharply
< 1276812894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is single core
< 1276812903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sempron 3300+
< 1276812922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't some early k8 have issues with the k8temp, sounds familiar...
< 1276812950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I get a value near that of the mobo when at lowest cpu speed
< 1276812990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmn. Well, mine went from 36/38 to 43/45 when I ran a "while true; do true; done" loop in one shell for three seconds, which made it jump from 1000 MHz to 2800 MHz. That sounds physically possible; but going from 36 to 77 in just a few seconds doesn't.
< 1276813012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and sensors.conf doesn't have my stuff But I checked that the values match those reported in BIOS pretty well after a reboot
< 1276813093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also less than a second. Checked with sensors && cpufreq-set [...] && sensors
< 1276813118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 77 needs load. On idle the difference is around 28 C -> 67 C
< 1276813118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then it does sound like k8temp is having some cpufreq-related issues.
< 1276813147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I guess I should not be worried about nwn making computer fry XD
< 1276813206 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: On the other hand, the "temp3" sensor in the it8718-isa-0228 motherboard sensors package is listed as +81.0 degrees Celsius in idle. I have no clue where the sensor is supposed to be, or whether it even exists.
< 1276813252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh
< 1276813269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core0 Temp:  +27.0°C
< 1276813269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp1:       +34.0°C  (high = +50.0°C, hyst = +45.0°C)  sensor = thermistor
< 1276813269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp2:       +34.5°C  (high = +50.0°C, hyst = +45.0°C)  sensor = thermistor
< 1276813269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp3:       +34.5°C  (high = +50.0°C, hyst = +45.0°C)  sensor = thermistor
< 1276813271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the voltage levels seem pretty arbitrary; they're all in the +1 .. +4 range, and have limits of [+0.00, +4.08].
< 1276813278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note temp2 is not always same as temp3
< 1276813297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and my voltages doesn't match at all
< 1276813309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/iuiS8AAb
< 1276813332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://sprunge.us/NShj
< 1276813365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's even more messy.
< 1276813420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1276813438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I commented out fan1 and fan3
< 1276813454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they are not attached and aren't even on the mobo
< 1276813465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were showing 0 RPM
< 1276813476 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be fun: Given a hash function and hash value, determine wheither there is preimage for that hash value... And more general version of it: given a hash function, do all its outputs have preimages? :-)
< 1276813492 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, good hashes should have preimages for all outputs, but...
< 1276813519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the IT8718, it seems that there's no generic "used by most manufacturers" configuration for it; the chip voltage-measuring inputs accept voltages in the range [0V, 4.096V] which gives those limits, but every manufacturer designs the actual circuitry differently.
< 1276813533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, I suggest proving it "mathematically" rather than by brute force ;P
< 1276813548 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. That's pretty much the only way to do it...
< 1276813550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The best thing to do is send Gigabyte's technical support an e-mail and ask. That's what I did and they told me what I needed to know. Of course, I sent it from work with my work signature attached (which includes the lines Digital Systems, Design Assurance Engineer - Reliability & Safety) so that may have helped. ;)"
< 1276813557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least my thinkpad has sane sensors
< 1276813567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the no attached ones report not readable
< 1276813575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laptops tend to handle monitoring better, anyway.
< 1276813585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well there is one strange, that is always at 50 and is only readable with main battery mounted
< 1276813601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then there is one varying one that is only readable with battery in
< 1276813613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, however I have no idea what the different temp probes are
< 1276813675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://sprunge.us/hgIY (after waking up computer from sleep for quite a while)
< 1276813683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it should be pretty much ambient temp there)
< 1276813716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err s/sleep/s2ram/
< 1276813737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the fan value definitely works btw
< 1276813792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and yeah I marked the ones not readable as ignore on the laptop
< 1276813806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably at least one of them would be for optional ultrabay battery
< 1276813836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there's not so many ways to hook fans into those monitoring chips. Unlike voltages, which you can scale to the chip input ranges in practically any which way.
< 1276814070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well for thinkpad it is quite reasonable to assume it is standard
< 1276814085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but looking at my desktop it has a div value for the fan
< 1276814130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't seem to find any existing settings for this particular motherboard model, but maybe some other by the same manufacturer could work.
< 1276814152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, unlikely
< 1276814176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway for servers there is a better system too
< 1276814186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is IPMI iirc (or was it IMPI?)
< 1276814197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presents sensors too in a nice way iirc
< 1276814242 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276814256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; I'm a bit surprised they haven't included monitoring stuff into ACPI nonsense, though.
< 1276814309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, look at the output of my thinkpad again?
< 1276814318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acpitz-virtual-0 eh?
< 1276814351 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.10 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276814373 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tautological? Or SEXY?
< 1276814380 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523.
< 1276814385 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I missed that. Still, temperatures only. (But perhaps they have others too.)
< 1276814390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehirdiphone
< 1276814441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw they should make an NWN variant based on a different table top RPG
< 1276814441 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have a wormhole?
< 1276814459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, to be more specific: Neverwinter Nights: Spawn of Fashan
< 1276814461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: not sure about the general case, but i don't
< 1276814463 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to gtfo.
< 1276814470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why?
< 1276814474 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Make one!
< 1276814481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it would be quite entertaining!
< 1276814484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D is more popular, after all, and they'd have to rewrite most of the code to fit it to a different game
< 1276814494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you mean is, "they should make a computer RPG based on Spawn of Fashan"
< 1276814495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't know what Spawn of Fashan is?
< 1276814498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no
< 1276814512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, worst RPG ever according to common opinion
< 1276814513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is, NWN is meant to emulate D&D, if you take that away it's no longer NWN
< 1276814532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, linking you to a review would be... pointless since you filter links
< 1276814535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just google
< 1276814535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's an RPG (not that one, but I can't remember the name) in which it's theoretically impossible to survive character creation, due to a bug in the rules
< 1276814559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, SoF is like that all the way iirc
< 1276814568 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that abominable "edgy" rpg made by someone with an iq of 4, broken gameplay, and crappy gratuitous sexual and gory writing? I forget. Read a mock review of it.
< 1276814576 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do one of that.
< 1276814624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, no it wasn't that one
< 1276814625 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving
< 1276814627 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the name is a backrinymmed or uppercase word
< 1276814639 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but what is that one?
< 1276814641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, you mean F.A.T.A.L.?
< 1276814648 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.
< 1276814689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, review of SoF: http://www.rpg.net/news+reviews/reviews/rev_6157.html
< 1276814717 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On GPRS. Heavy page?
< 1276814773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: do you have any way to send an HTTP HEAD request to it?
< 1276814775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you block images?
< 1276814778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, text
< 1276814783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, and some CSS I guess
< 1276814790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both would seem sensible on a bandwidth-limited connection
< 1276814796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, oh and possibly a tiny gif button
< 1276814796 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No; no.
< 1276814808 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Its not THAT slow.
< 1276814810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, quite a long text though
< 1276814826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, might be better enjoyed on computer
< 1276814830 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Big javadvripty imager paged are the problem
< 1276814847 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PathologicAl worst case: ign.com
< 1276814847 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276814849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276814861 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I haven't that luxury.
< 1276814863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well it is pure text apart from one small button image. And some CSS I guess.
< 1276814868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, well later then perhaps?
< 1276814872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: are you using a full browser like Safari, or an Opera Mini-style one?
< 1276814887 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the unit were aware of this one I would not even HAVE this luxury
< 1276814894 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have THIS
< 1276814906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, not going home yet?
< 1276814910 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WebKit browser inside irc client. Old iPhone os so no
< 1276814914 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multitasking
< 1276814918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, also: move abroad
< 1276814925 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Thursday night.
< 1276814943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: using an iPhone seems to really screw up your typing
< 1276814948 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you try and move based on weekends in another country.
< 1276814959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, hm. Sue them?
< 1276814963 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I REQUIRE SPEED.
< 1276814965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, tried legal stuff yet?
< 1276814976 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sue the government. Great idea.
< 1276814984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, yes why not?
< 1276814991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, it has been done before.
< 1276814993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know that if I was in a similar situation, I wouldn't be taking advice from either you or ehirdiphone
< 1276814998 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure the government will decide against the government.
< 1276815004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: These same-manufacturer same-monitoring-chipset other-MB-model sensors.conf settings did in fact seem mostly reasonable; they had ignore temp3 with the same "very high temperatures seen" comment and all: http://pastebin.com/Qw5S3EhR -- possibly not quite exact, but at least closer.
< 1276815009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. I would contact a lawyer
< 1276815009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: sometimes it does (see the BBC), but there's no guarantee
< 1276815032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mhm
< 1276815040 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as my *crazy* father somehow lied enough to social services to get them involved.
< 1276815061 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my dad is a sociopath basically in bed with the unit.)
< 1276815115 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Apparently* they want to discharge me to school at end of August.
< 1276815132 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because education outside of school is ILLEGAL!
< 1276815148 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why we have explicit legal provisions for it.
< 1276815151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: incompetent education outside school /is/ illegal
< 1276815157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you call your current education competent?
< 1276815171 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: At the unit?
< 1276815174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup
< 1276815181 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell no! but that's "school"
< 1276815185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was mostly a rhetorical question
< 1276815240 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of the unit? My education is... me. So yes, competent. The great philosopher Oklopol Omnivorol once said "All learning is autodidactism."
< 1276815294 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, oklopol's name should never be capitalised.
< 1276815307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think you should figure out a way to take GCSEs and/or A-levels early
< 1276815312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Your hardware situation always seems to mirror your personal situation... restraintive.
< 1276815314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd confuse the hell out of the people at the unit
< 1276815352 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: One teacher offered early GCSEs, but I declined. I don't want to do any such thing in this place.
< 1276815359 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Deep, man.
< 1276815370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: because you don't think they're competent enough to take you through them?
< 1276815407 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And because I don't trust my mental state in the slightest. And basically I have enough on my plate.
< 1276815428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought you'd have basically nothing on your plate at the unit...
< 1276815468 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to *purposefully block out my mind* to avoid repeated exposure to the idea "I am crazy" becoming a belief
< 1276815499 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they try to fill my time with pointless "therapeutic" bullshit. And just being here is straining.
< 1276815538 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well this is cheerful \o/
< 1276815538 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                           |
< 1276815538 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :                          /<
< 1276815592 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently I'm not allowed to have an Internet connection for "health and safety" and also "because others might get jealous"
< 1276815604 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss these lies amongst yourself.
< 1276815636 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "health and safety" is a lie in three words.
< 1276815643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second reason is potentially valid
< 1276815648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first doesn't seem to make sense, though
< 1276815658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they're worried you're looking up ways to escape the unit
< 1276815661 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because I can't keep a secret.
< 1276815664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I suppose you are
< 1276815671 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only two others sleep.
< 1276815676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe not the way they think
< 1276815698 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is a severely OCD 12 year old. The other doesn't speak or move or... Breathe?
< 1276815718 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not a hard secret to keep.
< 1276815735 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or THE EASY GUIDE TO SECRET SELF HARM
< 1276815751 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow
< 1276815757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they put people into units for OCD, nowadays?
< 1276815768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't strike me as the sort of disorder that implies being locked up...
< 1276815781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK is becoming admirably efficient at crushing anything and everything that deviates from The Way[tm].
< 1276815793 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this guy can't even sit down in more than a few places, regularly babbles to his arm,
< 1276815805 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is autistic and sees jokes as lies,
< 1276815822 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and convulses whenever he hears a """loud""" noise
< 1276815843 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, they locked me up for supposed OCD...
< 1276815862 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Asperger's.
< 1276815869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jokes are lies, we just learn to tolerate them
< 1276815887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lies can be amusing, whether they're intentionally jokes or not
< 1276815901 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you tell the most obvious joke and admit so he'll still get upset.
< 1276815952 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda dislike him because he just stays upstairs in his room or on the Wii whenever he's not in class and basically dictates the TV. Which is, you know, a bit shitty.
< 1276815995 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small comforts ruined. Ever turned a television down so low you can barely hear anything?
< 1276816003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yes
< 1276816004 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure getting used to it now.
< 1276816018 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: then watched an interesting programme?
< 1276816023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, lower than that and just used the subtitles
< 1276816036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I'm not convinced there are interesting programmes nowadays
< 1276816038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not very often
< 1276816063 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough. Same applies to the consoles though. It's just irritating.
< 1276816078 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BBC Four still has good stuff.
< 1276816092 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Attenborough is of course always worth watching.
< 1276816105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: normally, when I think of all the things I could do with my time, watching TV tends to be rather far down the list
< 1276816111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleeping is quite a way above it, for instance
< 1276816134 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the majority of things above it I cannot do.
< 1276816148 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not here.
< 1276816217 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm astonished how they manage to continually make this place worse.
< 1276816222 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Takes skill.
< 1276816263 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Did the melatonin work?
< 1276816280 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Any new interesting things?
< 1276816309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: not massively: there's a research problem I'm working on for work, and the rest of my time I'm spending programming (jettyplay today) and playing NWN
< 1276816313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and talking to people online
< 1276816326 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Research problem, eh?
< 1276816334 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— jettyplay?
< 1276816343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: ttyrec player, written in Java
< 1276816355 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Why, remind me?
< 1276816358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I need to learn Java better, partly because it's the optimal language for my intended use
< 1276816370 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why a player?
< 1276816374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a ttyrec player for the masses, that they can use if they need to watch ttyrecs
< 1276816383 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay.
< 1276816387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sort of people who want to make them normally are more technical and can just use ttyrec itself
< 1276816403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, games like NetHack should really have an inbuilt ttyrec recorder, rather than relying on a separate one, IMO
< 1276816492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that was what YouTube was for...
< 1276816505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've managed to get its memory usage down to just over 3 times the size of the uncompressed input ttyrec, which is probably reasonable; it was a lot higher
< 1276816512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: YouTube? for /text/?
< 1276816527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the quality's awful, and you can't do things like search in it
< 1276816533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was being facetious
< 1276816535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyrec > all video formats, for animated text
< 1276816547 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People post all kind of "video" to that cesspool
< 1276816650 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ack, I should probably be going.
< 1276816670 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, I didn't try it
< 1276816675 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death
< 1276816676 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad told me to wait until he gets home
< 1276816683 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In case I have some sort of reaction to it
< 1276816747 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep
< 1276816759 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone, they're obviously worried that you'll be exposed to swearing on the Internet or something
< 1276816790 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving.
< 1276816790 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An allergy? To MELATONIN?
< 1276816799 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you listen to your father?
< 1276816820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, if you were allergic to melatonin, you should stay in a darkened room for the rest of your life
< 1276816822 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He didn't say "allergy"
< 1276816842 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And NEVER GET SLEEPY EVER
< 1276816850 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might have a reaction.
< 1276816867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, there are people who have managed to stay alive despite a water allerghy
< 1276816870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*allergy
< 1276816877 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...water allergy?
< 1276816880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it probably wouldn't be impossible, just completely ruin your life
< 1276816882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: yes
< 1276816890 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__ehirdiphone, they're obviously worried that you'll be exposed to swearing on the Internet or something
< 1276816900 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they just hate everything they can't control.
< 1276816933 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've half a mind to hit them over the head with something heavy then swim to France.
< 1276816999 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Dihydrogen monoxide is terribly dangerous!
< 1276817027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yes, but the uses outweigh the dangers
< 1276817037 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not the sort of person to ask for advice in places that would likely to tell you to become an hero
< 1276817049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a huge list of things that are poisonous at sufficient doses, including water and oxygen
< 1276817072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about everything
< 1276817076 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I already am an hero. An hero of FLIGHT
< 1276817085 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*takes off*
< 1276817111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: when I was younger, I was fed mostly on a liquid designed by scientists to contain all the nutrients the body needed, in the ratio it needed them
< 1276817120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I had a load of food intolerances, and they weren't sure what for
< 1276817122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what to
< 1276817132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they needed a baseline food to keep me alive while they tested things
< 1276817137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure
< 1276817149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of its interesting properties was that it was impossible to overdose on it
< 1276817155 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o
< 1276817169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(water overdoses kill you by messing up your osmotic balance, for instance)
< 1276817182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can counteract them with pretty much anything that dissolves in water, like salt or sugar)
< 1276817253 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would not mind surviving on that liquid alone
< 1276817259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: it tastes awful
< 1276817270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the doctors actually had a really simple test to see if someone needed it or not
< 1276817271 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Any chance that flavoring could be added?
< 1276817279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was that if you were capable of tolerating the taste, you needed it
< 1276817303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you could flavour it reasonably easily
< 1276817313 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants!
< 1276817318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem was knowing which flavourings I'd react to, and which I wouldn't
< 1276817323 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah
< 1276817328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was amusing, because it came on prescription
< 1276817336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the medicines in the pharmacy were pills, or tiny bottles
< 1276817348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas what came for me came in giant boxes that were too heavy to carry for more than a few minutes
< 1276817559 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still wants it
< 1276817583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: why?
< 1276817617 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect nutrition, never needing to make decisions about food,
< 1276817676 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably incredibly expensive, too
< 1276817690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: cost is unknown because it only came on prescription over the NHS
< 1276817694 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1276817694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm guessing incredibly expensive, yes
< 1276817716 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Lemme guess...
< 1276817719 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1088893966.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276817720 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ensure?
< 1276817722 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we had near-free prescription drugs here :(
< 1276817732 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION used to rely on Ensure
< 1276817737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: no, ProSoBee
< 1276817745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure on what capitalisation they use atm, they tended to change it at random
< 1276817759 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ensure is evil in a bottle. At least if you were forced to drink it like I was...
< 1276817768 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disgusting.
< 1276817800 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276817801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: what was wrong with you that they made you drink it?
< 1276817821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, even nowadays I use soya milk for breakfast, a literal habit of a lifetime is near-impossible to break, and I don't see any reason to
< 1276817830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as I have problems with large quantities of regular milk
< 1276817839 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They equated a low BMI with malnutrition. So wrong it hurts.
< 1276817867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch
< 1276817874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in my case they had a plausible and valid reason
< 1276817882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they got most of the specifics really wrong
< 1276817888 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMI is simply pure bullshit invented for 1800s bodies by someone who had no idea what they were doing AND it's only meant for adults
< 1276817899 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Sgeo__, not perfect nutrition.
< 1276817913 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nutrition science is just... Hopeless unscience.
< 1276817915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?
< 1276817920 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276817927 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523
< 1276817934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how I ended up parting
< 1276817939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tab just randomly disappeared for no obvious reason
< 1276817947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally hit Ctrl-W?
< 1276817955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was using the touchpad at the time
< 1276817960 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pretty much had to drink Ensure because otherwise I simply would not eat enough to sustain myself
< 1276817987 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you need it prescribed?
< 1276818010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, food apathy is a very strangely common thing among nerds.
< 1276818029 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I'm pretty sure that Ensure does NOT need to be prescribed
< 1276818035 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276818042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I'm far from food-apathetic
< 1276818043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Accdentally middle-clicked?
< 1276818046 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linus Torvalds' mother says he was perfectly satisfied in a room with a computer and a bowl of cold pasta for hours.
< 1276818049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: could be
< 1276818051 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was talking about Sgeo
< 1276818059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's virtually impossible to middle-click on this laptop
< 1276818068 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Hmm. Maybe just over here.
< 1276818068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, if I did middle-click, it's likely that it was done by accident
< 1276818072 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was certainly
< 1276818078 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prescribed it bit then
< 1276818086 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think a doctor did recommend it, iirc
< 1276818090 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They get paracetamol prescribed here too
< 1276818095 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but then
< 1276818113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously; they won't just give you pain killers. At all.
< 1276818119 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paracetamol == tylenol, or is that some other thing beginning with p
< 1276818121 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?
< 1276818138 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headache? Deal with it or beg them to ask a doctor to prescribe something.
< 1276818153 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it can be dangerous..
< 1276818174 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, one dose of pain killers used on two year olds.
< 1276818179 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could KILL.
< 1276818184 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ibuprofen?
< 1276818190 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people might be stupid and overdose
< 1276818194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Tylenol seems a strangely American drug, it was mentioned all over US TV (which I was watching from Canada), but I've hardly heard of it in the uK
< 1276818198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*UK
< 1276818201 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paracetamol. Or is that a brand name?
< 1276818213 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Not if they give you the dose...
< 1276818214 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tylenol is a brand name of Paracetamol/acetamenophin
< 1276818223 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/P/p/
< 1276818242 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Aspirin seems quite uncommon here too.
< 1276818261 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers the name "Acetamenophin" to "Paracetamol"
< 1276818271 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: I don't.
< 1276818287 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Antibiotics!
< 1276818299 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Antibiotics eh.
< 1276818315 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it really easy to make salicylic acid anyway?
< 1276818325 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paracetamol is dangerous to the overdoser. Antibiotics are dangerous to everyone else who has to deal with the resistant bacteria because of stupid people's abuse
< 1276818326 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*acetylsalicylic acid
< 1276818346 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, preventative antibiotics = fail
< 1276818356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norway's got it right
< 1276818368 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I joined the Pirate Party
< 1276818372 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I was on antibiotics but I had a pus-y wound.
< 1276818383 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which sucked and all.
< 1276818428 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So what WERE your food intolerance?
< 1276818431 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was very young, a wasp stung me. I got antibiotics for that
< 1276818438 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*intolerances
< 1276818452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: quite a long list; the major ones are large amounts of cheese, and fish
< 1276818467 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The antibiotics I were on were serious stuff. Nasty side effects.
< 1276818470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's believed that if I eat too many nuts I'll develop a nut allergy, so I steer away from them
< 1276818483 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Used to treat infections of major organs.
< 1276818487 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: wtf
< 1276818498 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What's wrong with you?
< 1276818504 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, apparently, there were staff bacteria or something
< 1276818512 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(staph?)
< 1276818517 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :staph
< 1276818523 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: Who administered worker bacteria?
< 1276818524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: who knows? in the end they decided they didn't know and found out by trial and error
< 1276818527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: get a tapeworm
< 1276818545 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Worst advice ever. At any time
< 1276818553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: that helps some diseases in some cases; I don't know if it would help some disorder at random
< 1276818563 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I suggest TAPEWORMS!"
< 1276818580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general, you don't get "miracle cures" that cure everything
< 1276818596 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about SCP-500?
< 1276818596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you normally need a cure that correlates at least somewhat to the disease
< 1276818598 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe tapeworms were suggested as a cure for hay fever and other immunoglobin-induced allergies. Personally, I'd take the allergies.
< 1276818601 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Yes, I know it's fiction]
< 1276818614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: intolerances aren't allergies, though
< 1276818628 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ouch
< 1276818630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both have the vague "don't eat various foods" restrictions, but the effects if you do eat them are entirely different
< 1276818640 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1276818640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screwing up an intolerance is less bad in general than screwing up an allergy
< 1276818644 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have hayfever sort of. And eczma (quite mild).
< 1276818651 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They interact annoyingly.
< 1276818652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you don't want to experience the effects, or be around someone who is
< 1276818653 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does lactose-intolerance vary? Used to be lactose-intolerant, then it seemed to go away
< 1276818658 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get rashes from pollen.
< 1276818665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: intolerances have been known to fade over time, yes
< 1276818670 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm not sure if it's back or not or keeps coming back or is just my imagination
< 1276818672 0 :iamcal!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric
< 1276818673 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer
< 1276818689 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an allergy to birch pollen and things similar to it (many fresh fruits and vegetables :/)
< 1276818700 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an allergy to allergies.
< 1276818702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: if you believe something is bad for you, it probably is; the placebo effect is strong and works both ways
< 1276818746 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here ever had an operation?
< 1276818757 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+)
< 1276818758 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a hernia removed; that's it.
< 1276818790 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo__: ?
< 1276818813 0 :Sgeo__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Failed attempt at a joke
< 1276818832 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh i see
< 1276818832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: yes, but I was too young to remember it or even know why it was carried out
< 1276818835 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...die
< 1276818861 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had tubes put in my eardrum for an infection when I was really young, and had an ingrown toenail clipped
< 1276818866 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ?! I could never forget. How old are you? And are you sure you did not originate in a test tube?
< 1276818875 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, "no."
< 1276818881 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Were
< 1276818882 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: those are both operations
< 1276818883 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not are
< 1276818885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: I'm 23, and the operation was when I was around 2 or 3
< 1276818893 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, but...
< 1276818905 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had my hernia removed @ 5
< 1276818914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 would be a lot easier to remember
< 1276818925 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To this date, brush your hand gently near the scar and it caves in slightly.
< 1276818926 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah
< 1276818933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my earliest memory is just over 2 years old
< 1276818939 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fixed part of my muscle wall thingy
< 1276818977 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My memories start around 5 to 7 with vague recollections of the years before. Only very few moments.
< 1276819010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logo is a nice language.
< 1276819060 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wild topic changes woo
< 1276819141 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_>