←2010-06-25 2010-06-26 2010-06-27→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:10 <cpressey> alise: Wait, what are all these?
00:00:15 <alise> cpressey: ?
00:00:37 <cpressey> I know not of this "Python" of which you speak.
00:00:40 <cpressey> No.
00:00:42 <cpressey> I mean,
00:00:43 <zzo38> cpressey: That is one idea, I was thinking maybe something a bit different, such as, you can cast a different spell with even/odd hit points, your HP is healed until it is prime, everyone's HP in range is healed or harmed to the nearest prime number, etc
00:00:46 <cpressey> rc.
00:01:03 <zzo38> cpressey: But do you have idea about the second one, the "MERCIFUL TO GIBBERING MOUTHERS"?
00:01:11 <alise> cpressey: The only good shell.
00:01:39 <alise> cpressey: From UNIX 10, but more known from Plan 9.
00:02:00 <alise> http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/rc
00:02:01 <alise> http://man.cat-v.org/plan_9/1/rc
00:02:06 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:02:11 <cpressey> zzo38: Not really, yet. For some reason I keep thinking about gibbering mouthers doing karaoke.
00:02:28 <cpressey> alise: I was hoping it was Windows' old Resource Compiler.
00:02:38 <alise> cpressey: >_<
00:03:14 <cpressey> alise: But if Lua is "naff" then... yeah. I know what you mean. But there isn't.
00:03:20 <cpressey> Maybe Io. But probably not.
00:03:31 <AnMaster> <pikhq> zzo38: You, romanise ディンキ. <-- pikhq, what does it mean
00:04:02 <alise> cpressey: I don't want all these fancy object things though. I just want some... stuff.
00:04:05 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
00:04:09 <alise> Basically I want Tcl, I guess.
00:04:10 <alise> :P
00:04:18 <cpressey> Blech.
00:04:33 <cpressey> Well, ok...
00:04:39 <pikhq> AnMaster: That's a transcription of "dinky".
00:04:43 <AnMaster> pikhq, hah
00:05:11 <pikhq> And cannot be romanised in Hepburn, Kunrei, or Nihon romanisation schemes.
00:05:23 <pikhq> (these are the only ones in use by more than, oh, 1 person. :P)
00:05:34 <alise> cpressey: Well, make a language that fits! :P
00:06:15 <alise> sort -R | head -1 # can anyone think of a better way to write this? :-)
00:06:29 <cpressey> alise: If I could get funding... well, no. I can't promise it would "fit" rc. I'm not actually much of a Plan 9 fan.
00:06:45 <alise> cpressey: Not fit rc. Fit what I want.
00:06:50 <alise> Also, Plan 9 is great, you just have to look beyond the surface.
00:07:08 <alise> You think they attacked everything naively but then it turns out they actually have quite a deep understanding of OS design, including STUFF.
00:07:29 <cpressey> alise: Have you ever installed it and used it?
00:07:36 <alise> In a VM, yes.
00:07:39 <alise> It takes getting used to.
00:07:45 <alise> But the ideas are great.
00:07:50 <alise> I found myself settling quite quickly.
00:08:02 <cpressey> I was never able to get it installed, when I was interested. (No VM for me at the time, only bare metal.)
00:08:24 <alise> Well, yeah, it sucks at hardware support. It's a research OS. :P
00:08:29 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
00:08:34 <alise> WHY DOES GREP MAKE ME WRITE [[:digit:]] INSTEAD OF \d.
00:09:09 <cpressey> alise: The answer has something to do with RMS and goats.
00:10:19 <AnMaster> <alise> sort -R | head -1 # can anyone think of a better way to write this? :-) <-- yes
00:10:23 <AnMaster> sort -R | head -n 1
00:10:27 <AnMaster> more POSIX
00:10:44 <AnMaster> but even -R is not posix
00:11:01 <AnMaster> it's probably GNU
00:11:06 <alise> Is there a bash thing to let the heredoc ender have whitespace before it?
00:11:10 <alise> I think there is but I'm not certain.
00:11:38 <pikhq> Brackets, I think.
00:11:40 <cpressey> Fuck bash. Use Tcl.
00:11:45 <pikhq> foo >>{HERE DOC}
00:11:47 <pikhq> HERE DOC
00:12:01 <alise> Not like that.
00:12:04 <alise> foo <<abc
00:12:06 <alise> sdfjsdf
00:12:07 <alise> abc
00:12:10 <alise> Like that.
00:12:17 <pikhq> Oh, fuck if I know.
00:12:58 <AnMaster> alise, yes there is such a thing. forgot syntax
00:13:08 <AnMaster> alise, foo <-FOO or some such iirc?
00:13:10 <AnMaster> not sure
00:13:13 <AnMaster> err
00:13:16 <AnMaster> check man page
00:13:39 <AnMaster> alise, it will cut as much indention as the line it started on all the way through iirc
00:13:52 <alise> Grr, you even need to escape + in grep.
00:14:16 <AnMaster> alise, err yeah grep -E at least
00:14:29 <AnMaster> alise, since it is extended posix regex then
00:14:39 <AnMaster> alise, what are you coding?
00:14:54 <alise> Vapourware-botte's quote shower.
00:16:13 <cpressey> You're coding it in Bash?
00:16:19 <alise> Nope.
00:16:23 <alise> Remember that file you saved for me?
00:16:32 <alise> Plugins are just specially-made executables.
00:16:47 <cpressey> Yes, but it didn't say "Not bash". So I had to check.
00:17:11 <AnMaster> alise, what are you coding in bash then?
00:17:11 <alise> Well, this particular command is in bash.
00:17:19 <alise> http://pastie.org/1019456.txt?key=jfkfjyxtauequ90qdqjhja <-- The "quote" command.
00:17:25 <alise> Whoops, wait, made an error.
00:17:28 <alise> number $db | grep -F "$*" /var/quotes
00:17:30 <alise> Chop off the last argument.
00:17:36 <AnMaster> alise huh
00:17:42 <alise> Anyway, I like that; could repeat "number $db" a bit less, but there you go.
00:17:58 <cpressey> So, HYPOTHETICALLY, if I wanted to write a working bot in 20 minutes, in a language I don't outright hate, ... is there a framework that makes that tolerable?
00:18:04 <alise> It uses ~/var/quotes because in a botte environment, $HOME is the botte root.
00:18:09 <alise> cpressey: botte
00:18:12 <AnMaster> alise, store the value of number $db in a variable?
00:18:21 <cpressey> alise: Non-vapourware
00:18:22 <alise> AnMaster: Yeah, I think I will.
00:18:28 <AnMaster> cpressey, I don't know which languages you hate
00:18:31 <alise> AnMaster: But it seems like the kind of thing I want to... I don't know, lazily evaluate.
00:18:40 <cpressey> Unless you're saying botte will be finished in 20 minutes
00:18:57 <alise> cpressey: I'd just use sockets in a reasonable language with sockets.
00:19:07 <alise> <AnMaster> alise, store the value of number $db in a variable?
00:19:12 <alise> still have to echo "$quotes"
00:19:14 <alise> which isn't so cool
00:19:16 <cpressey> AnMaster: You know some of them :)
00:19:29 <AnMaster> alise, you evaluate it on all paths it makes sense to do it eagerly
00:19:37 <alise> quotes () {
00:19:37 <alise> number "$db"
00:19:37 <alise> }
00:19:38 <alise> problem solved
00:19:40 <AnMaster> s/paths/&,/
00:19:49 <AnMaster> alise, -_-
00:19:54 <alise> AnMaster: What? It looks nice now.
00:20:01 <alise> if [ "$*" = "" ]; then
00:20:01 <alise> quotes | sort -R | head -n 1
00:20:01 <alise> else
00:20:01 <alise> if echo "$*" | grep -c '^[0-9]\+$'; then
00:20:01 <alise> quotes | grep "^($*)"
00:20:02 <alise> else
00:20:03 <cpressey> Maybe a better question: is there a good intro doc to the IRC protocol? That includes sample code for a really simple bot?
00:20:04 <alise> quotes | grep -F "$*" /var/quotes
00:20:06 <alise> fi
00:20:08 <alise> fi
00:20:10 <alise> Not like it's any slower or anything.
00:20:11 <AnMaster> alise, you should evaluate it eagerly! ;P
00:20:12 <alise> cpressey: Yeah, here's my intro:
00:20:15 <alise> USER abc abc abc abc (make them all the same)
00:20:19 <cpressey> And do I like? To insert? Extraneous question marks???
00:20:19 <alise> NICK poopybot
00:20:23 <alise> JOIN #channel
00:20:31 <alise> PRIVMSG #channel-or-username :poopy poop mcfloopy poop
00:20:34 <alise> Messages come in as
00:20:48 <alise> :nick!youdontcare@youdontcare PRIVMSG #channel-or-your-name :LOL U SUXK
00:20:51 <alise> The end.
00:20:56 <alise> AnMaster will try and tell you to use NOTICE.
00:20:57 <alise> Ignore him.
00:21:13 <AnMaster> alise, no I wasn't going to
00:21:25 <alise> Well, ais523 would. :P
00:21:36 <AnMaster> however you are right the RFC says any automated replies to PRIVMSG should use NOTICE
00:21:40 <AnMaster> to prevent an endless loop
00:21:45 <alise> OTOH, botloops are fun.
00:21:48 <alise> And NOTICEs are irritating.
00:21:53 <AnMaster> alise, depends on client
00:22:01 <AnMaster> some clients do it properly
00:22:22 <cpressey> alise: I think you forgot something.
00:22:23 <AnMaster> cpressey, oh and you are not allowed to automatically reply to NOTICEs
00:22:34 <alise> cpressey: Quitting? Parting?
00:22:36 <alise> PART #poop
00:22:43 <alise> QUIT :this message is probably going to be ignored by freenode
00:22:54 <cpressey> No, I was confused. But yes.
00:22:59 <alise> ctcp actions show up as \1ACTION foo\1 in the message body
00:23:02 <alise> (actual \1 characters)
00:23:04 <alise> you can send them like that too
00:23:19 <cpressey> So talking on a channel is a form of PRIVMSG, huh. Nice.
00:23:40 <cpressey> Real private-like.
00:23:48 <cpressey> Well, relative to the other channels I suppose.
00:24:15 <AnMaster> alise, no freenode won't ignore them...
00:24:24 <cpressey> So now I just need a framework for line-based communicate over a socket connection. I'm sure I can find that. But still, uggh.
00:24:25 <alise> AnMaster: it does in the first interval of connecting or something
00:24:32 <alise> cpressey: netcat
00:24:40 <alise> cpressey: nc -e ./mybot irc.freenode.net 6667
00:24:45 <alise> stdout sends to server, stdin reads from server
00:24:46 <alise> job done
00:24:48 <AnMaster> cpressey, line endings are CRLF
00:24:53 <alise> AnMaster: but nobody cares
00:24:54 <alise> so just use \n
00:25:00 <alise> if your nc doesn't have -e, blame security freaks and get proper Hobbit netcat
00:25:05 <AnMaster> alise, yes but you will get your lines like that
00:25:14 <alise> AnMaster: well yeah but gets will handle that
00:25:18 <alise> (maximum line limit = you can use gets)
00:25:27 <alise> although you can also use fgets in the same manner if you hate gcc complaining about it :P
00:25:28 <AnMaster> ugh
00:25:34 <alise> AnMaster: well hey, it's safe in this case
00:25:38 <alise> and cpressey said in twenty minutes
00:25:51 <alise> i personally don't know fgets' signature off by heart, so i'd have to look it up --> time
00:26:07 <AnMaster> alise, you shouldn't use gets anyway because there are servers which breaks this part of the protocol during connect to ensure no idiot clients
00:26:08 <AnMaster> iirc
00:26:08 <cpressey> I don't plan on using a language with statically-sized buffers for strings.
00:26:13 <alise> cpressey: Well, yeah.
00:26:26 <alise> cpressey: Just use perl -n.
00:26:33 <alise> BEGIN { print "USER and NICK commands" };
00:27:00 <alise> if /^PRIVMSG .+? :quit/ { exit }
00:27:11 <alise> Er
00:27:15 <SgeoN1> That BEGIN depressingly reminds me of Ruby
00:27:15 <AnMaster> .+?
00:27:15 <alise> if /^:.+? PRIVMSG .+? :quit/ { exit }
00:27:20 <alise> AnMaster: non-greedy .*
00:27:34 <AnMaster> SgeoN1, it reminds me of AWK
00:27:37 <cpressey> I'm trying to irc using raw nc right now.
00:27:39 <AnMaster> SgeoN1, probably perl too
00:27:52 <cpressey> It said it got No Ident response, and kicked me off
00:27:56 <alise> if /^:(.+)?!.+? PRIVMSG (.+)? :ping/ { print "PRIVMSG $2 :pong, $1" }
00:28:02 <AnMaster> cpressey, which server?
00:28:13 <AnMaster> cpressey, freenode allows no ident
00:28:15 <cpressey> $ nc irc.freenode.net 667
00:28:19 <alise> cpressey: 6667
00:28:24 <AnMaster> 667!?
00:28:25 <cpressey> Sorry, twas
00:28:27 <cpressey> 6667
00:28:32 <alise> What should the add quote command be?
00:28:35 <AnMaster> cpressey, but you need to reply to PING during connect
00:28:40 <AnMaster> cpressey, otherwise it will kick you off
00:28:41 <cpressey> Maybe it just timed me out, trying again
00:28:48 <AnMaster> this is to prevent HTTP proxy to spam
00:28:50 <AnMaster> cpressey, ^
00:29:03 <alise> cpressey: [ehird@ping ~]$ nc irc.freenode.net 6667
00:29:03 <alise> :niven.freenode.net NOTICE * :*** Looking up your hostname...
00:29:03 <alise> :niven.freenode.net NOTICE * :*** Checking Ident
00:29:03 <alise> :niven.freenode.net NOTICE * :*** No Ident response
00:29:03 <alise> :niven.freenode.net NOTICE * :*** Couldn't look up your hostname
00:29:04 <alise> USER ehird ehird ehird ehird
00:29:06 <alise> NICK asjsdf
00:29:10 <alise> Ignore AnMaster, he's wrong, you probably just timed out
00:29:15 <alise> Don't worry about pings
00:29:24 <AnMaster> alise, no I'm pretty sure freenode added that nowdays
00:29:29 -!- cprcprcpr has joined.
00:29:33 <alise> Yes, but it doesn't matter unless you'r reeeeaaally slow.
00:29:35 <alise> cprcprcpr: Yo.
00:29:40 <cpressey> Hey, there I am.
00:29:41 <AnMaster> alise, read again
00:29:49 <alise> *you're
00:29:49 <alise> AnMaster: ?
00:29:59 <AnMaster> alise, HTTP proxy spam
00:30:13 <cprcprcpr> poopy poop mcfloopy poop (blame alise)
00:30:16 <AnMaster> I remember an oper said they were doing to introduce that thing
00:30:33 * alise installs Hobbit netcat.
00:30:41 * cpressey grins evilly.
00:31:23 <cprcprcpr> ACTION looks worried.
00:31:30 <alise> I refuse to acknowledge any other netcat.
00:31:31 <cpressey> nope, not it.
00:32:07 <cprcprcpr> /me looks worried.
00:32:49 <alise> Heh, the netcat source has a lot of poop-ery too.
00:32:52 -!- cprcprcpr has quit (Client Quit).
00:33:11 <cpressey> omg i looked at the nc source once
00:33:14 <cpressey> i went blind
00:33:36 <cpressey> Well, thank you for the tutorial, alise.
00:33:38 <alise> netcat.c:(.text+0x1420): undefined reference to `res_init'
00:33:43 <alise> Eh? But I linked with -lresolv... ohh, static.
00:33:47 <cpressey> Must be off now.
00:33:56 <alise> Eh, I'd better disable static.
00:33:58 <alise> cpressey: Bye!
00:34:11 <cpressey> http://www.televisiontunes.com/Wayne_and_Shuster_-_Ending.html
00:34:13 <alise> # -Bstatic for sunos, -static for gcc, etc. You want this, trust me.
00:34:15 <alise> Wrong again, sir.
00:34:18 <cpressey> Bye!
00:34:20 -!- cpressey has left (?).
00:34:21 <alise> Bye.
00:41:34 <AnMaster> alise, I seem to have a netcat called ncat...
00:41:37 <AnMaster> from nmap.org
00:41:38 <AnMaster> how strange
00:41:57 <AnMaster> it has -e anyway
00:42:43 <alise> http://nc110.sourceforge.net/ is my only trusted source for the latest and greatest (1996) Hobbit netcat release.
00:43:13 <alise> Unpatched (it doesn't need it), untarnished, 1.10.
00:43:31 <alise> The most despicable use of the netcat name is GNU's, IMO. It's an entirely different software package and they've tried to usurp the name.
00:43:34 <alise> Not cool.
00:45:02 <pikhq> Good ol' classic netcat.
00:45:36 <alise> pikhq: Unfortunately, it tries to statically link and also uses libresolv, so you have to get a static libresolv or (not recommended) disable the static linking.
00:45:42 <alise> So that's a bit inconvenient.
00:46:09 <pikhq> alise: So frob the build system.
00:46:30 <alise> To do what?
00:46:51 <pikhq> To make it not statically link.
00:47:01 <pikhq> At least, not by default; that's kinda silly.
00:47:11 <AnMaster> yeah patch the build system
00:47:15 <pikhq> If you really want it to be static, you can add -static to your CFLAGS.
00:47:20 <AnMaster> and call it
00:47:22 <AnMaster> or such
00:47:32 <alise> http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Supesredblue.jpg ;; gotta catch 'em all
00:47:43 <alise> pikhq: # -Bstatic for sunos, -static for gcc, etc. You want this, trust me.
00:47:48 <alise> I cannot distrust Hobbit.
00:47:55 <alise> # Usually do "make systype" -- if your systype isn't defined, try "generic"
00:47:55 <alise> # or something else that most closely matches, see where it goes wrong, fix
00:47:55 <alise> # it, and MAIL THE DIFFS back to Hobbit.
00:48:02 <alise> I cannot mail a diff back to him; therefore I have no right to modify this file.
00:48:05 <pikhq> At the time, Linux's dynamic linking sucked balls.
00:48:14 <alise> Fun fact, it still does. :P
00:48:20 <AnMaster> alise, not in the same way
00:48:25 <pikhq> No more so than other dynamic linking.
00:48:29 <alise> Yeah, it just sucks in a sucky way now.
00:48:35 <AnMaster> ....
00:48:48 <pikhq> Then, it had each dynamic library with its own compiled-in address.
00:49:03 <AnMaster> <alise> http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Supesredblue.jpg ;; gotta catch 'em all <-- which tv tropes page was that linked from?
00:49:11 <alise> AnMaster: I'm not evil enough to tell you.
00:49:12 <alise> Sorry.
00:49:13 <pikhq> The linker would load the library at the proper address. Binaries would use the proper address to call into it.
00:49:16 <AnMaster> alise, I want to know
00:49:18 <alise> Hmm, I have no res_init in my libresolv.
00:49:19 <alise> AnMaster: Sorry.
00:49:22 <alise> (Dork age.)
00:49:23 <AnMaster> alise, ....
00:49:27 <pikhq> And that's the entirety of it.
00:49:31 <alise> (You can CamelcCase it.)
00:49:33 <alise> *CamelCase
00:49:35 <AnMaster> alise, I use w3m -dump anyway for it
00:49:47 <AnMaster> alise, to get rid of links
00:50:21 <alise> Any idea how to get res_init() on Linux?
00:50:38 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
00:51:04 <AnMaster> no
00:53:07 <alise> "Link with -lresolv."
00:53:10 <alise> So why doesn't it work...
00:53:18 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:54:33 <alise> Aha.
00:54:38 <alise> #include <resolv.h> fixes it.
00:54:42 <alise> Guess it's a macro.
00:55:09 <alise> netcat.c:(.text+0x62c): warning: Using 'getservbyport' in statically linked applications requires at runtime the shared libraries from the glibc version used for linking
00:55:10 <alise> Who cares.
00:56:12 <alise> [ehird@ping nc]$ make linux XFLAGS='-DLINUX -DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE'
00:56:13 <alise> Yummy.
00:57:03 <alise> Yay, I has nice naetcat.
00:57:04 <alise> *netcat
00:57:16 <alise> Add quote command? Name? Opinions?
00:58:41 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
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01:01:33 <AnMaster> alise, "-DGAPING_SECURITY_HOLE"?
01:01:51 <alise> AnMaster: enables -e
01:01:58 <alise> which is not so much a gaping security hole as a ... gaping security hole
01:02:04 <alise> (if used in a gaping manner)
01:02:08 <alise> (but really, it's your own damn fault)
01:02:13 <alise> hobbit is a bit creative with his na,es
01:02:14 <alise> *names
01:02:15 <pikhq> It's a gaping security hole, but not netcat's fault.
01:02:31 <alise> struct host_poop {
01:02:32 <alise> struct port_poop {
01:02:47 <alise> cross-check the host_poop we have so far against new gethostby*() info,
01:02:47 <alise> and holler about mismatches. Perhaps gratuitous, but it can't hurt to
01:02:47 <alise> point out when someone's DNS is fukt. Returns 1 if mismatch, in case
01:02:47 <alise> someone else wants to do something about it. */
01:02:54 <alise> if (strcmp (poop->name,
01:03:01 <alise> HINF * gethostpoop (name, numeric)
01:03:01 <alise> char * name;
01:03:01 <alise> USHORT numeric;
01:03:01 <alise> {
01:03:02 <alise> etc.
01:03:18 <alise> The most poopy segment I've found so far:
01:03:19 <alise> memcpy (&poop->iaddrs[x], hostent->h_addr_list[x], sizeof (IA));
01:03:19 <alise> strncpy (poop->addrs[x], inet_ntoa (poop->iaddrs[x]),
01:03:19 <alise> sizeof (poop->addrs[0]));
01:04:11 <pikhq> ... Whatinthe?
01:04:21 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
01:05:15 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
01:07:15 <alise> pikhq: Whatinthe whatinthe?
01:07:27 <alise> pikhq: He just likes naming all his replacements for standard things after poop.
01:07:33 <alise> And names all values of these types "poop".
01:08:13 <pikhq> Apparently.
01:08:37 <alise> addquote is boring
01:08:39 <alise> perhaps remember
01:08:46 <alise> or, hmm
01:08:53 <alise> maybe .q should be the random quote / quote lookup command
01:08:55 <pikhq> alise: Oboeru
01:08:57 <alise> and .quote be the add-quote command
01:10:32 <alise> These are totally important questions.
01:12:02 <alise> if [ "$*" = "" ]; then
01:12:02 <alise> echo "$NICK: Try entering a quote, dipshit."
01:12:05 <alise> Note to self: Think of a nicer error message.
01:12:15 <AnMaster> alise, idea: quotethee !
01:12:21 <AnMaster> or something like that
01:12:41 <AnMaster> alise, you know, somewhat archaic
01:15:08 <alise> #!/bin/sh
01:15:08 <alise> if [ "$*" = "" ]; then
01:15:08 <alise> echo "$NICK: Try entering a quote, dipshit."
01:15:08 <alise> else
01:15:08 <alise> echo "$*" >> ~/var/quotes
01:15:09 <alise> fi
01:15:13 <alise> Let's see you write that simpler in your favourite bot. :P
01:16:00 <alise> I love how the quote command just... uses the output of grep as the result of the command. With no filtration.
01:16:06 <alise> The Unix architecture is pretty damn good.
01:17:18 <pikhq> `run cat `which quote`
01:17:29 <HackEgo> No output.
01:17:35 <pikhq> `ls
01:17:38 <HackEgo> No output.
01:17:49 <pikhq> EFFYOUHACKEGO
01:18:54 <alise> pikhq: HackEgo uses *SQLITE* to do quotes.
01:18:57 <alise> It cnanot possibly win.
01:19:00 <alise> *cannot
01:19:04 <pikhq> alise: What, seriously?
01:19:10 <alise> Yes.
01:19:12 <pikhq> I could've sworn it used a shell script.
01:19:15 <alise> Yes.
01:19:18 <pikhq> Ah well.
01:19:18 <alise> That calls SQLite.
01:19:25 <pikhq> Same command should work on Hackego, though.
01:19:29 <alise> This is because Gregor has some sort of retarded disease whereby he uses SQLite for everything.
01:19:34 <alise> pikhq: even $NICK?
01:19:44 <pikhq> Maybe not that.
01:19:46 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:19:59 <cheater99> humans
01:20:06 <cheater99> alise, wat is up?
01:21:34 <AnMaster> Gregor, I kindly request a version of http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op7.ogg that doesn't sound like the microphone was in a wooden box at the time!
01:21:42 <alise> pikhq: setting lowercase environment vars is discouraged, right?
01:22:13 <pikhq> alise: Right.
01:22:25 <pikhq> Gregor: I second that request.
01:22:52 <AnMaster> Gregor, same applies to some of the other early opuses you published
01:23:31 <AnMaster> Gregor, I mean the music as such is good but there is no midi file or such for so I could use fluidsynth locally
01:23:41 <alise> pikhq: Gah, the worst thing about sh is quoting every damn var.
01:23:51 <alise> I mean, you have to do it even if it doesn't need it, otherwise it gets wildly inconsistent and stuff starts breaking.
01:23:58 <AnMaster> alise, XD
01:24:10 <AnMaster> alise, sometimes you want to not quote it though
01:26:00 <CakeProphet> so... does Gosel's theorems apply /only/ to systems that define arithmetic and the natural numbers?
01:26:10 <CakeProphet> *Godel
01:26:36 <alise> How should you address a single item of karma?
01:26:38 <alise> "bit of karma"?
01:26:42 <alise> "You have 3 bits of karma."
01:29:39 <alise> Dear people, please stop saying "to thine own self be true" (and similar modernisations) and "brevity is the soul of wit". Thanks.
01:30:29 <AnMaster> alise, the latter sounds true in many cases
01:31:07 <AnMaster> laconisms and such
01:31:10 <alise> I'm not sure you understand. Polonius said those lines.
01:31:23 <alise> Polonius is /a blundering idiot/.
01:31:33 <AnMaster> alise, oh I didn't know that
01:31:59 <alise> "Brevity is the soul of wit" is not true; while it is true that verbose jokes aren't always funny (although they can be, see shaggy dog stories), it is certainly not the /shortness/ of a phrase that determines how funny it is!
01:32:25 <AnMaster> alise, true, but what about laconism then?
01:32:32 <alise> AnMaster: Is one type of humour, not all.
01:32:38 <AnMaster> alise, very true
01:32:49 <AnMaster> alise, but the shortness of it is part of making it fun
01:32:55 <pikhq> alise: As you well know, 低さは知恵の気.
01:32:57 <AnMaster> very often
01:33:03 <alise> Anyway, Polonius basically spends the entirety of Hamlet dancing around, poking his nose into everything and generally being annoying while thinking himself wise, then Hamlet accidentally kills him and is just all "oh well, who cares".
01:33:04 <AnMaster> pikhq, translation please
01:33:11 <alise> So, yeah, people quoting him is amusing.
01:33:11 <pikhq> Brevity is the soul of wit.
01:33:15 <pikhq> Made shorter.
01:33:16 <AnMaster> pikhq, XD
01:33:51 <pikhq> Also shorter in roman script. "Hikusa wa chie no ki."
01:34:32 -!- alise has set topic: Very like a whale. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
01:35:34 <alise> I wonder how prudes who only like Shakespeare because it's "classical" deal with finding out the true meaning of that country matters/nothing bit.
01:35:39 <alise> Apart from "badly".
01:35:58 <pikhq> alise: Oh, *that's* all you wonder about?
01:36:09 <pikhq> And not all the *other* genitalia references?
01:36:18 <pikhq> (half of each play, ish?)
01:36:22 <alise> Well, the country matters bit is the most obvious.
01:36:27 <pikhq> True.
01:36:30 <alise> The rest they can just handwave away.
01:36:37 -!- AnMaster has set topic: Very like a whale. | More so than a real whale. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
01:37:36 <AnMaster> alise, which play is that?
01:37:46 <alise> pikhq: I watched the David Tennant / Patrick Stewart adaptation on BBC2 on Boxing Day (we get three hour productions of Hamlet without advert breaks on the second main channel on Boxing Day: this is possibly the only redeeming aspect of British culture); he did a rather excessive rolling of the r in "country matters".
01:37:53 <alise> Cuntrrrrrrrry matters.
01:37:58 <alise> I guess it has to be obvious for the PHILISTINES. :P
01:38:05 <alise> AnMaster: Hamlet.
01:38:12 <AnMaster> alise, I thought you said country? not cuntry
01:38:27 <alise> It's a pun.
01:38:30 <alise> He says country, he means cunt'ry.
01:38:33 <AnMaster> alise, ah
01:38:33 <pikhq> alise: It's hard to argue against David Tennant and Patrick Stewart together performing, well, anything.
01:39:16 <alise> AnMaster: HAMLET: Lady, shall I lie in your lap?
01:39:16 <alise> OPHELIA: No, my lord.
01:39:16 <alise> HAMLET: I mean, my head upon your lap?
01:39:16 <alise> OPHELIA: Ay, my lord.
01:39:16 <alise> HAMLET: Do you think I meant country matters?
01:39:17 <alise> OPHELIA: I think nothing, my lord.
01:39:19 <alise> HAMLET: That's a fair thought to lie between maids' legs.
01:39:21 <alise> OPHELIA: What is, my lord?
01:39:23 <alise> HAMLET: Nothing.
01:39:35 <AnMaster> XD
01:39:49 <pikhq> "Nothing" was also slang for a vagina.
01:39:54 <AnMaster> heh
01:40:00 <alise> i.e., "Wanna have sex?" "No." "I mean, can I lie my head [innuendo: head of penis] on your lap." "Okay." "Did you think I meant cunt'ry matters?" "I think nothing, my lord." "That's a fair thought to lie between maids' legs." "What is, my lord?" "[Vagina.]"
01:40:02 <AnMaster> resting a head there seems very strange
01:40:33 <AnMaster> so indeed
01:41:10 <alise> tl;dr shakespeare was a dirty, dirty man.
01:41:20 <AnMaster> tl;dr?
01:41:21 <AnMaster> why
01:42:03 <alise> "tl;dr summary" has now overtaken "tl;dr [as complaint"].
01:42:12 <AnMaster> alise, what? really?
01:42:18 <alise> Yes.
01:42:20 <alise> *complaint]".
01:42:31 <pikhq> Yes.
01:42:36 <alise> "TL;DR: [i.e., for the people who consider this TL;DR, here is a summary:]".
01:42:39 <pikhq> Welcome to the rapid, rapid evolution of slang.
01:42:55 <alise> Which is now more common than "tl;dr" itself, which became a bit boring really.
01:43:39 <oerjan> alise: "Un bon mot ne prouve rien."
01:44:16 <alise> oerjan: Quite so! Wait...
01:44:32 <alise> ("A witty saying proves nothing.", for those who don't speak French; Voltaire.)
01:45:11 * oerjan notes it was awkward to find the french verson, i had to guess a word in it ("rien") to push the english-only hits off google
01:46:02 <alise> Could have just hit up http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Voltaire.
01:46:04 <oerjan> after which one discovers that google really doesn't like wikiquote much
01:46:15 <oerjan> yes, that's where i ended up
01:47:18 <oerjan> but it wasn't in the first google page with just the english
01:48:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, you could have set the language to French only in advanced search
01:48:35 <oerjan> similarly i usually have to add site:wiktionary.org if i want to go there
01:48:59 <oerjan> AnMaster: i suppose, which would have been about equally awkward
01:49:19 <alise> http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Warp Warp 3 is either 487c or 39c.
01:49:31 <alise> Warp 4.4 is faster than warp 4.5.
01:49:41 <pikhq> Less than 10% of American self-proclaimed Christians can recite more than a few sentences from the Bible. That's a bit... Surprising.
01:49:42 <alise> And warp 8.4 is 765,000c while warp 9 is merely 834c.
01:49:53 <alise> But 9.9 is 21,473. Add .1 to that, get warp 10, and you hit infinity.
01:49:57 <alise> WARP SPEED: FUCK YEAH
01:50:01 <pikhq> Given that I strongly suspect that most atheists could manage that.
01:50:28 <pikhq> If for nothing else than to mock things like talking donkeys.
01:51:04 <AnMaster> <alise> Warp 4.4 is faster than warp 4.5. <-- plot a graph
01:51:15 <alise> AnMaster: How do you put TWO POINTS on the SAME SPOT?
01:51:23 * oerjan once upon a time invented a currency in which 10 was an infinite amount of money. i don't _think_ i'd heard of warp by then
01:51:24 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
01:51:42 <AnMaster> alise, the same way you plot a relation instead of a function
01:51:47 <oerjan> although it _was_ based on the relativistic speed addition formula
01:51:47 <pikhq> alise: There's two different warp scales.
01:51:58 <AnMaster> imperial vs metric?
01:52:07 <alise> pikhq: At least three, surely.
01:52:13 <alise> And none of them make ANY SENSE
01:52:25 <alise> oerjan: so what would a newspaper cost?
01:52:47 <pikhq> I did not say they made any sense at all.
01:53:19 <oerjan> alise: um i don't think i actually fixed the exchange rate
01:53:28 <alise> oerjan: :D
01:53:37 <Gregor> <AnMaster> Gregor, I kindly request a version of http://codu.org/music/GRegor-op7.ogg that doesn't sound like the microphone was in a wooden box at the time!
01:53:45 <pikhq> If it were up to me, I'd call it multiples of C and be done.
01:53:46 <Gregor> That was recorded on an acoustic. Poorly.
01:54:26 <alise> botte feature idea: commands that are triggered on some shell comman
01:54:26 <alise> d
01:54:30 <alise> s/n\nd/nd/
01:54:46 <alise> So, for instance, if you wanted to run the command karma++ on all messages containing ++, you'd have
01:55:02 <alise> grep -c '++': karma++
01:55:02 <AnMaster> Gregor, indeed. op6 is about as bad
01:55:33 <Gregor> Anyway, I also didn't write down the sheet music. Hypothetically I'm working my way backwards and recreating them, but I'm only on Op. 8 in that process.
01:55:52 <Gregor> How about this: You and pikhq and whoever else cares (nobody) vote on which one you would most like for me to get updated, and I'll update it :P
01:55:52 <pikhq> Gregor: D'aw.
01:56:07 <pikhq> 7 has the worst recording.
01:56:48 <oerjan> !haskell conv c = atanh (c/10); main = print $ map conv [0.5, 1 .. 9.5]
01:56:52 <EgoBot> [5.004172927849138e-2,0.1003353477310757,0.15114043593646667,0.20273255405408228,0.2554128118829953,0.3095196042031117,0.3654437542713962,0.4236489301936017,0.4847002785940517,0.5493061443340549,0.6183813135744635,0.6931471805599453,0.7752987062055835,0.8673005276940532,0.9729550745276565,1.09861228866811,1.2561528119880574,1.4722194895832204,1.831780823064823]
01:57:21 <Gregor> Note that update is not just rerecording, it's making a digital piano roll and sheet music.
01:57:28 <Gregor> (As well as recording)
01:58:08 <pikhq> Hmm. Op. 1. :P
01:58:39 <alise> lilypond is pretty
01:58:40 <Sgeo__> "IRC is still, for many people, the place to go to get real-time help with various technologies, or simply to discuss them."
01:58:48 <alise> if Gregor's music isn't lilipondised yet, he should make it so
01:58:51 <Gregor> alise: I hope you mean the output and not the input :P
01:58:55 <Sgeo__> "Still"? What's that supposed to imply? That it's on its way out?
01:59:01 <Gregor> alise: All that I have sheet music of is lilypondized.
01:59:05 <alise> Gregor: the output is beautiful, the input is acceptable
01:59:18 <Gregor> alise: Much like all other TeXisms.
01:59:38 <oerjan> Sgeo__: it's 90's technology, older than the web itself, of course it's antiquated :D
01:59:57 <AnMaster> <pikhq> 7 has the worst recording. <-- seconded
02:00:09 <AnMaster> Gregor, 6 comes second when it comes to worst recording
02:00:22 <pikhq> 5's got a decent recording, as does 8.
02:00:31 <AnMaster> pikhq, indeed
02:00:33 <pikhq> Heck, 6 is acceptable. 7's is just annoying.
02:00:44 <AnMaster> yes 7, 6, the rest
02:00:48 <AnMaster> that is the order I suggest
02:01:00 <AnMaster> he said he wouldn't post 4 and before so...
02:01:01 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/D95jI.png <-- google wins
02:01:26 <alise> http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=world+cup "Assuming "world cup" is a gene"
02:01:46 <AnMaster> alise, haha
02:02:47 <alise> cuil launched a new product
02:02:48 <alise> Welcome to Cpedia (alpha) — the automated encyclopedia from Cuil.
02:03:28 <alise> it ... stitches together the internet into an awful encyclopedia article
02:03:54 <alise> "It will not work as expected for offensive or pornographic terms, so for instance the article on gay sex is mostly about the Anglican Church, Uganda, Larry Craig, and Ted Haggard. Because we have removed most of the obviously adult pages, this is what is left, and this does not really reflect the actual web."
02:04:02 <alise> ...so what if I want to look up some sex-related thing?
02:08:10 <Sgeo__> Gotta love how Chrome will sometimes completely ignore that I typed something into the address bar and pressed Enter
02:08:19 <alise> xD
02:08:46 <Sgeo__> Also, browsing Reddit on Chrome is hell
02:10:26 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:10:58 <pikhq> I think we need to get someone here to learn violin, viola, and cello, so we can perform Op. 9.
02:11:54 <Sgeo__> If my computer's clock is constantly slow, even after being set to the right time several times, is something severely wrong?
02:12:10 <Gregor> I know somebody who plays Cello but is waaaaaaaaay too good to ask to play Op. 9. I used to play the Viola but was and certainly am waaaaaaaaaaay too bad.
02:12:11 <pikhq> Yes: why aren't you running ntpd?
02:12:37 <Gregor> Also, frankly, if I could conjure up the instruments, I would sooner get the Op. 11 string quartet ...
02:12:39 <Sgeo__> Is "Windows" an answer?
02:12:40 <pikhq> Gregor: First, I'd imagine they'd be quite willing. Second, that's sad.
02:13:05 <pikhq> Also, that's a good point. A string quartet version of that would be awesome.
02:13:13 <pikhq> Sgeo__: Yes, but not an acceptable one.
02:13:23 <Gregor> pikhq: It's notated, just not played :P
02:13:32 <pikhq> Gregor: Yuh.
02:14:40 <Gregor> Also the notation needs a little bit of polishing but *eh*
02:14:49 -!- lifthrasiir has joined.
02:15:30 <Sgeo__> Where the fark is my mouse?
02:15:49 -!- charlls has joined.
02:16:53 <Gregor> Sgeo__: I ate it.
02:16:59 <alise> Shii had some sort of network clock program for Windows on his website at one point.
02:17:08 <alise> It seems now to have disappeared.
02:17:10 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:17:25 <Gregor> Sgeo's mouse is also his network adapter.
02:17:59 <pikhq> And the clock.
02:18:09 <alise> http://shii.org/tclock/
02:18:15 <alise> Clock synchroniser for Windows.
02:22:23 * oerjan notes that his Windows clock menu has a setting for syncronising, which afahk has been on since he got the machine
02:22:59 <oerjan> *+h
02:24:06 <alise> Does anyone know where I could illegally obtain the corpus of the OED?
02:26:40 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
02:26:58 <SgeoN1> I love it when stuff randomly crashes.
02:27:15 <oerjan> SgeoN1: isn't your clock set to synchronize? there's a tab in my clock menu for that
02:27:34 <alise> Either that or use http://shii.org/tclock/.
02:27:38 <oerjan> (internet clock)
02:28:01 <SgeoN1> I think it's set to once a week
02:28:02 <oerjan> (well technically "internettklokke")
02:28:09 <alise> Either that or http://homepage1.nifty.com/kazubon/tclocklight/index.html.
02:28:17 <alise> SgeoN1: make it every hour or so
02:28:54 <oerjan> SgeoN1: oh it's that rare? it was set for next time tomorrow so assumed it was more frequent
02:28:56 <SgeoN1> Could there be a hardware issue?
02:29:20 <oerjan> alise: there's alas no item to change the frequency, in my menu at least
02:29:32 <alise> Then use TClock(2|light).
02:29:57 * SgeoN1 syncs with time.nist.gov
02:30:40 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:31:00 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
02:31:49 <SgeoN1> As of now, the time is one minute off
02:31:57 <SgeoN1> Or less
02:32:25 <SgeoN1> I'll post when it becomes significantly wrong
02:34:14 <alise> Dude, one minute is CATASTROPHIC.
02:34:33 <alise> Typical ntp errors range in the tens to hundreds of milliseconds.
02:35:31 <SgeoN1> Maybe my phone's fast
02:37:02 <SgeoN1> OK, phone was showing 9:36 while comp showed 9:34
02:37:09 <alise> Anyone know a good open dictionary corpus?
02:37:17 <alise> SgeoN1: compare against e.g. time.gov
02:37:24 <alise> s/$/./
02:38:55 <SgeoN1> Comp currently off by slightly over one minute
02:39:11 <SgeoN1> 70 sec or so
02:42:10 <alise> I NEED DICTIONARIES
02:42:12 <alise> DO NOT SUGGEST WORDNET
02:42:15 <alise> You will suffer.
02:42:34 * oerjan suggest wiktionary and runs away
02:42:37 <oerjan> *+s
02:43:20 -!- micahjohnston has joined.
02:43:35 <SgeoN1> OpenCyc!
02:44:19 <alise> oerjan: but you see, wikitionary sucks.
02:44:24 <alise> SgeoN1: die in a fire
02:44:48 <SgeoN1> What, you're not an AI?
02:44:57 <oerjan> WELL WHOSE FAULT IS THAT
02:45:08 <oerjan> YES, YOURS. BECAUSE YOU CAN EDIT IT.
02:46:20 -!- wareya_ has joined.
02:46:20 <oerjan> SgeoN1: AIs might still want you to die in a fire. see e.g. terminator movies.
02:48:53 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
02:49:55 <alise> example of why wiktionary sucks:
02:50:06 <alise> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuck -- how on earth am i meant to present a definition of "fuck" to the user like this
02:50:21 <alise> i mean have these guys never opened an OED and noticed how it has all the organisation you need and still has every definition take up one logical line
02:51:40 <Gregor> Wiktionary is not good.
02:52:05 <alise> " She shoved them up and together, pushing into me, forcing my foot to fuck her tits harder and harder while gasping as if I was shoving it deep into her body..."
02:52:08 <pikhq> alise: I'm thinking that for flinix, I will aim to initially just have Xserver, dwm, and dillo running.
02:52:08 <alise> Yep, the OED would quote that.
02:52:16 <alise> Classy, Wiktionary.
02:52:17 <alise> Classy.
02:52:31 <alise> pikhq: go for jwm or something, i dislike tiling managers :<
02:52:37 <alise> also, getty!
02:52:46 <Gregor> Uhhh
02:52:53 <pikhq> alise, dwm is a bit more minimalist.
02:53:04 <alise> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hotter_than_a_fresh_fucked_fox_in_a_forest_fire <-- No.
02:53:05 <Gregor> Wiktionary didn't quote that either :P
02:53:08 <alise> Gregor: It did.
02:53:19 <alise> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuck; click second [quotations ▼] link.
02:53:43 <Gregor> Ack, I didn't even know about that unfeature.
02:53:48 <pikhq> JWM HAS MULTIPLE FILES
02:53:51 <alise> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fuckest ;; FUCKEST??? SERIOUSLY GUYS.
02:54:01 <alise> DIE IN A FIRE.
02:54:11 <alise> Gregor: We should just petition Oxford to open-source the full OED corpus.
02:54:14 <alise> Though it'd be gigabytes.
02:54:19 <alise> Actually, 500 megabytes or so IIRC.
02:54:29 <Gregor> That
02:54:30 <Gregor> Would
02:54:30 <Gregor> Be
02:54:31 <Gregor> AWESOME
02:54:32 <alise> But someone would just stick it on the web.
02:54:35 <Gregor> Never gonna happen though.
02:54:35 <alise> And thus it would be cool.
02:54:39 <alise> Gregor: Alas.
02:54:49 <alise> Gregor: We should make some shoddy argument that it's part of a public research institution!
02:56:06 <alise> And thus ... must be ... completely open.
02:56:18 <alise> Gregor: But seriously, are there even options other than Wiktionary and WordNet?
02:56:37 <Gregor> I usually just use Google's "define:whatever" and then pick one that seems not retarded :P
02:57:45 <alise> http://ninjawords.com/ reformats wiktionary to be not so abhorrent; I'm wondering if I should just screen-scrape it
02:58:06 <pikhq> alise: Hmm. How large is twm?
02:58:11 <alise> pikhq: Ew. No.
02:58:16 <pikhq> :P
02:58:24 <alise> "I asked her if she wanted to fuck and she said yes, so we had sex together last night."
02:58:29 <alise> What a ludicrous quote
02:58:31 <alise> s/^ //
02:58:39 <Gregor> alise: That is totally how human beings talk.
02:58:57 <micahjohnston> has anyone played manufactoria?
02:59:09 <micahjohnston> the first few levels are fsms and then it's pretty much turing machiens
02:59:15 <cheater99> sup guys
02:59:25 <alise> I asked the bitch "Do you wish to engage in copulatory intercourse this night?" 'n she said yer, 'n we fucked our brains out
02:59:36 <alise> ^ Even more realistic
03:00:24 <pikhq> Oooh! Oooh! uwm!
03:00:29 <pikhq> :P
03:00:54 <pikhq> ... Holy fuck that code is awful.
03:00:59 <pikhq> MAKE IT STOP
03:01:52 <alise> Just use jwm, dude.
03:02:29 <pikhq> jwm and dwm are the only choices I can use for a small distro and still be able to look myself in the mirror.
03:03:15 <Gregor> WMs are for pussies.
03:03:22 <Gregor> X is for pussies.
03:03:34 <Gregor> XXX is also for pussies, but for very different definitions.
03:03:59 <pikhq> Gregor: If I don't want X, then I'll just stick busybox and Elinks on a floppy and call it a day. :P
03:04:23 <Gregor> It's not a distro if it doesn't have GCC :P
03:04:33 <Gregor> With GCC it has infinite capacity to extend itself, so all is well.
03:04:38 <pikhq> Fine, I can also include a C compiler.
03:04:44 <Gregor> TCC I assume ;)
03:04:45 <pikhq> ... TCC.
03:04:46 <pikhq> :)
03:04:47 <Gregor> And make
03:04:51 <pikhq> Or maybe PCC.
03:04:56 <pikhq> Busybox has a make.
03:04:58 <Gregor> PCC on Linux is a suckfest.
03:05:04 <Gregor> And not the good kind.
03:05:30 <pikhq> I was playing with it earlier. It actually works quite well, though it seems to not support a few things that Linux programs love using.
03:07:27 <pikhq> Also, suckless appears to have a decent terminal. That'll probably go on as well.
03:07:57 -!- Sgeo has joined.
03:10:10 <Sgeo> So: Nostalgia, or awesome visual?
03:10:17 * Sgeo is actually picking "awesome visual"
03:10:27 * oerjan gasps
03:10:43 <oerjan> WHAT DID YOU DO TO THE _REAL_ SGEO?
03:11:14 <alise> what's the abbreviation thing for interjection?
03:11:24 <alise> itj.?
03:11:34 <oerjan> æ veit itj
03:19:07 <alise> fuck, v. (often obscene sometimes extremely vulgar) To have sexual intercourse, to copulate: "I asked her if she wanted to fuck and she said yes, so we had sex together last night."; (often obscene sometimes extremely vulgar) To insert one's penis, or a dildo or other phallic object, into a specified orifice or cleft; n. (vulgar) An act of sexual intercourse: "That was a great fuck."; (vulgar) A sexual partner: "She's a good fuck."; itj. Expressing dismay
03:19:07 <alise> or discontent: "Oh, fuck! We left the back door unlocked."
03:19:09 <alise> Tada.
03:19:16 <alise> Gregor: I just mangled Wiktionary into something readable.
03:22:27 <alise> [ehird@ping src]$ python define.py poo
03:22:27 <alise> poo, n. Excrement; faecal matter; n. Marijuana resin; v. To defecate
03:22:31 <alise> Is it bad style to repeat the n. like that?
03:22:35 <Sgeo> WHere is "She is a good fuck"? [Yes, that's extremely demeaning, but still]
03:23:41 <oerjan> um right before the end?
03:24:01 <Sgeo> Oh
03:24:06 * Sgeo is blind today
03:25:24 -!- micahjohnston has left (?).
03:25:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:28:51 <alise> [ehird@ping src]$ python define.py poo
03:28:51 <alise> poo, n. excrement; faecal matter; marijuana resin; poo, v. to defecate.
03:28:55 <alise> Should I repeat the word name like that?
03:29:28 <alise> wherefore, v. (archaic) Why, for what reason, because of what; cnj. (archaic) Because of which; n. an intent or purpose.
03:29:32 <alise> I think it looks better without the repetition.
03:30:32 <alise> Okay, how the fuck do I abbreviate preposition?
03:30:34 <alise> I need pikhq for this.
03:31:20 <pikhq> alise: Preposition?
03:31:27 <alise> articles = {
03:31:27 <alise> 'verb': 'v',
03:31:27 <alise> 'noun': 'n',
03:31:27 <alise> 'adjective': 'adj',
03:31:27 <alise> 'interjection': 'intj',
03:31:28 <alise> 'adverb': 'adv',
03:31:30 <alise> 'abbreviation': 'abbrv',
03:31:32 <alise> 'conjunction': 'conj',
03:31:34 <alise> 'preposition': 'prep',
03:31:36 <alise> }
03:31:37 <pikhq> prep.
03:31:38 <alise> You know, dictionary abbreviations of articles.
03:31:40 <alise> Followed by a dot.
03:31:43 <alise> Is abbrv right? intj?
03:31:46 <alise> conj?
03:32:04 <pikhq> abbrv, int, cnj
03:32:04 <Sgeo> Marijuana resin?
03:32:49 <alise> Yeah, who the hell knows, it's wiktionary.
03:32:53 <alise> It's not going to be of the highest quality.
03:33:04 <alise> pikhq: Sure you're not just making these up?
03:33:15 <alise> weed, n. any plant growing in cultivated ground to the injury of the crop or desired vegetation, or to the disfigurement of the place; an unsightly, useless, or injurious plant: "If it isn't in a straight line or marked with a label, it's a weed."; a species of plant considered harmful to the environment or regarded as a nuisance; v. to remove weeds (unwanted vegetation) from (a cultivated area): "I weeded my flower bed."; past tense of wee.
03:33:16 <pikhq> alise: No.
03:33:18 <alise> weed. Past tense of wee.
03:33:28 <alise> ....also, where the hell is marijuana in that definition?
03:34:15 <alise> fuck it, int. (vulgar idiom) An expression of great indifference or nonchalance: "I was going to clean my room, but thought "fuck it, nobody's going to see it.""; (vulgar idiom) An expression of frustration.
03:34:18 <alise> It's like the OED, but awful.
03:34:33 <alise> oed, abbrv. oxford English Dictionary.
03:34:36 <alise> My lowercasing code backfires.
03:34:53 <alise> wikipedia, v. past tense of wipe.
03:34:54 <alise> WHAT
03:36:05 <alise> oh ha
03:36:22 <alise> it picks up on the deletion notice saying "deleted" which is like ... wiping, i assume
03:36:31 <alise> dunno
03:36:44 <Gregor> "He told me to wipe off the dishes, so I wikipedia them for an hour or so but got tired of it."
03:36:57 <alise> Wikipedia, n. an open-content online encyclopedia, collaboratively developed over the World Wide Web; a version of this encyclopedia in a particular language: "There are over two million articles on the English Wikipedia."; v. to search for information on a topic in the Wikipedia online encyclopedia; to add or edit an article of the Wikipedia online encyclopedia.
03:36:59 <alise> Now it works!
03:37:00 <alise> Oh the horror.
03:37:20 <alise> http://pastie.org/1019589.txt?key=iveweg7njbmwqqdjqpnndg
03:37:24 <alise> The ugly electronic dictionary device.
03:40:27 <Sgeo> I love LINQ
03:41:32 <Sgeo> http://pastie.org/private/oaddwrbvqjm0htb7jwgynq
03:42:02 <alise> Sgeo: Firstly, jesus christ that is awful die.
03:42:07 <alise> Secondly, no C# in here. Yes, that is now a Rule.
03:42:16 <alise> I decree it so; any objections can be posed to me so that I may summarily ignore them.
03:42:21 <Sgeo> What's so awful about it?
03:42:32 <pikhq> Sgeo: OUCH
03:42:34 <pikhq> THAT HURTS
03:42:37 <alise> where wick.Tag == "#CRYSTAL-ALTAR-PE:" + name
03:42:38 <alise> Especially this.
03:42:41 <alise> You fail at structuring anything.
03:43:00 <alise> GIVE UP ON LIFE MY FRIEND :|
03:43:09 <Sgeo> ?
03:44:16 <Sgeo> I still don't get it.
03:44:36 <alise> Precisely
03:44:43 <alise> Wow I am a jerk :)
03:44:54 <alise> pikhq: Please explain why .Tag is epically failing there.
03:45:36 <Sgeo> If this has to do with the name "Tag", that's .. I don't remember if it's my fault or not
03:45:55 <Sgeo> The choice of "Object" as the name of the class of these Objects is NOT my fault.
03:46:02 <Sgeo> Although I guess I could have renamed it
03:46:19 <Sgeo> But what's so terrible about .Tag?
03:46:44 <alise> Not the name Tag.
03:46:46 <alise> The contents.
03:47:10 -!- aschueler has joined.
03:47:49 <Sgeo> Tag can contain (almost) arbitrary strings
03:48:22 <Sgeo> They're just the thing that starts with # in the in-world object's Action line
03:52:31 * oerjan doesn't know C#, but on a hunch wonders why you'd need new { pe.Position.X, pe.Position.Y, pe.Position.Z } rather than just pe.Position
03:52:42 <oerjan> and same for wick
03:54:32 <Sgeo> Because Position is (rather stupidly) not a struct
03:54:50 <Sgeo> And I don't know if.. Can I trust equals to do the right thing?
03:54:54 <Sgeo> Hm, guess I should find out
03:58:24 <Sgeo> Or, I could just use where instead of join
03:58:30 <Sgeo> That might actually be CORRECT
04:07:46 <alise> 4am... bed soon
04:17:39 <alise> 06:03:20 <oerjan> Sgeo__: i've read overdosing on tylenol (paracetamol) is _not_ a laughing matter
04:17:41 <alise> 06:03:39 <oerjan> a _very_ painful way of dying
04:17:42 <alise> 06:04:07 <oerjan> it takes a week for your liver to break down, or something
04:17:42 <alise> 06:04:52 <oerjan> and after a day there is _nothing_ medicine can do to prevent it
04:17:44 <alise> cooooooool
04:17:55 <alise> i now know how to take over the world, thanks
04:18:09 <alise> step 1. steal all the anti-paracetamol-overdose cures
04:18:17 <alise> step 2. force-overdose everyone on paracetamol
04:18:26 <alise> *step 3.
04:19:53 <alise> flotsam and jetsam, n. (nautical) The remains of a shipwreck still floating in water; (nautical) That which has been discharged from a ship or boat, especially on the ocean or a sea, (flotsam unintentionally and jetsam intentionally).
04:19:56 <alise> this thing formats entries really nicely
04:20:34 <alise> 06:34:06 <oerjan> ah but don't you know that people decide their opinions first and make up / delude themselves into thinking they had reasons afterwards?
04:20:35 <alise> 06:34:23 <oklopol> maybe stupid people
04:20:36 <alise> oh snap
04:21:07 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
04:21:22 <Sgeo_> Admittedly, my code trusts the environment a bit much.
04:21:36 <Sgeo_> One single issue in the environment, it crashes
04:21:43 <alise> Can't... sleep...
04:21:45 <Sgeo_> Then again, the environment is theoretically under our control
04:22:48 <pikhq> Tylenol is scary shit if you like your liver.
04:22:56 <pikhq> Worst thing to OD on.
04:23:15 <alise> Note to self: use aspirin in future.
04:23:17 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
04:23:20 <alise> `quote oklpol
04:23:21 <alise> `quote oklopol
04:23:36 <HackEgo> No output.
04:23:55 <Warrigal> So, it turns out that in irssi, /window number switches two windows.
04:23:59 <Warrigal> So, good, I know how to do that.
04:24:09 <HackEgo> No output.
04:24:44 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
04:25:24 <pikhq> alise: Before the first 24 hours, there are no symptoms. After the first 24 hours, medicine can only reduce the chance of death. After the first 48 hours, you are solidly *fucked*.
04:25:37 <alise> sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet
04:25:40 <alise> why do they give this to kids
04:25:49 <alise> & also what horrible deaths can aspirin cause
04:26:10 <pikhq> Aspirin can cause ulcers and stomach bleeding.
04:26:52 <pikhq> Also, if given while you have one of a few viral illnesses while young, it can cause Reye's syndrome.
04:27:56 <alise> okay that's not nearly as bad
04:28:00 <alise> what about ibuprofen
04:28:22 <pikhq> Reye's syndrome can cause brain damage or death...
04:29:04 <alise> But I don't have one of a few viral illnesses while young.
04:29:13 <alise> So ulcers and stomach bleeding, I can deal with the slight possibility of if I have too much.
04:29:16 <alise> Now! Ibuprofen.
04:29:36 <pikhq> OTC doses of ibuprofen have... Side effects.
04:30:12 <pikhq> And they're not very common at OTC doses.
04:30:53 <Mathnerd314> alise: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=ibuprofen+overdose :-)
04:31:14 <alise> pikhq: so in other words i should just only use ibuprofen!
04:31:35 <pikhq> Oh, yeah: nice thing about ibuprofen is that even a mild overdose takes a bit of doing to do.
04:31:50 <pikhq> Over its OTC dose is prescription dosage.
04:32:01 <alise> But otoh it's not as effective for, say, headaches, is it?
04:32:19 <pikhq> About as effective as aspirin.
04:32:58 <alise> vs paracetamol? I've never taken aspirin afaik.
04:33:25 <pikhq> I dunno about you, but I find that paracetamol doesn't even *work* as a painkiller for me.
04:34:44 <Sgeo_> Turns out that going with the cooler looking stuff instead of the nostalgic stuff essentially discards someone else's hard work
04:36:27 <pikhq> But, yeah. Paracetamol causes more liver failures than all other drugs *combined*, and is the cause of some 39% of all cases of acute liver failure...
04:37:25 <pikhq> I avoid that like the plague.
04:41:36 <alise> 4:41 ... aargh
04:41:50 <alise> pikhq: I seem to be unable to detect any effect when using painkillers.
04:42:06 <alise> The effect is so gradual, and since I am not able to observe the timeline in which I didn't take them, I never feel any benefit to taking painkillers.
04:42:44 <pikhq> alise: Apparently you've only taken paracetamol.
04:42:56 <pikhq> Which in my experience does fuck-all.
04:42:58 <alise> I've had ibuprofen before, I think, but I don't recall what for.
04:43:02 <alise> Never had aspirin.
04:43:06 <pikhq> Ibuprofen and aspirin work quite well.
04:44:16 <alise> The only bothersome pain I ever really get is headaches.
04:45:37 <oerjan> Warrigal: a quicker way of changing to another window in irssi is alt-<number>
04:46:48 <pikhq> oerjan: /window is for moving the window, not changing to it.
04:47:34 <alise> or is it
04:47:36 <alise> OR
04:47:36 <alise> IS
04:47:37 <alise> IT
04:49:09 <alise> yawn
04:49:13 <alise> pikhq: help me sleep!
04:49:14 <alise> 4:49 woe
04:49:33 <Warrigal> oerjan: no, it swaps two windows.
04:50:28 <Warrigal> /window n moves to that window (and I generally use meta instead); /window number n swaps the current window with window n.
04:50:30 <Ilari> Isn't those liver failures caused by the stuff they mix into it?
04:52:22 <oerjan> Warrigal: ok
04:54:32 <pikhq> alise: 寝て寝て寝て!
04:54:45 <pikhq> (nete nete nete!)
04:54:49 <alise> Nete yourself.
04:55:47 <pikhq> でも今二十二時五十五分!
04:56:03 <pikhq> (demo ima nijuuniji gojuugofun!)
04:56:29 <pikhq> [but it's 22:55!]
04:56:58 <alise> Sgeo_!
04:57:01 <alise> Where did you buy melatonin?
04:57:11 <Sgeo_> At the drugstore
04:58:15 <alise> Well that sure is helpful
04:58:37 <alise> Sgeo_: It's a prescription drug in the UK~
04:58:49 <Sgeo_> o.O
04:58:58 <alise> Which means I'd have to get a doctor to prescribe me with some sort of under-melatonin disorder.
04:59:02 <alise> Not happening, especially with the unit.
04:59:08 <alise> Especially as I don't have such a disorder afaik.
04:59:23 <pikhq> I strongly suspect you do.
04:59:25 <alise> Sgeo_: So I'll probably have to find some trustworthy sauce and just break the law hideously >_>
04:59:33 <alise> Wait, I just said "I need to find a reputable online pharmacy". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
04:59:40 <alise> pikhq: Yes, but will a doctor listen?
04:59:48 <pikhq> Reputable. Online. Pharmacy.
04:59:54 <pikhq> Bweheheh.
05:00:01 <alise> I predict the response will be "Sleep more." and with the unit involved they'll be all like "heh don't be silly young man".
05:00:07 <pikhq> Got all your melatonin, LSD, and cocaine needs.
05:00:18 <alise> "A few years ago, my mother told me that your Melatonin solved all problems she'd suffered. Because S/H to Japan is expensive, I had to buy more to keep them in stock for my mother. 50 bottles are enough to live for about 5 years. She said that she would take them until she dies. ... She trusts your brand. Please note that you have a fan even in Japan." - U.Y., Japan
05:00:23 <alise> Hey, it's got endorsements from JAPAN!
05:00:25 <alise> And it's in UTAH!
05:00:28 <alise> This is gonna work
05:00:43 <alise> ...mind you, it does actually look reputable as thes things go: http://www.melatonin.com/
05:01:20 <alise> "There is limited study of melatonin supplements in children, and safety is not established" Oh, shut UP.
05:01:40 <pikhq> It helps that melatonin OTC is actually legal in the US.
05:01:45 <alise> "Sleep disturbances in children with neuro-psychiatric disorders (mental retardation, autism, psychiatric disorders)"
05:01:50 <alise> Good thing I'm either retarded of autistic.
05:01:52 <alise> *or
05:02:01 <alise> pikhq: "Worldwide Shipping"!
05:02:03 <Sgeo_> WOT seems to very barely like it
05:02:19 <alise> I guess there's a possibility that it would be intercepted, but melatonin? Really now?
05:02:44 <alise> Sgeo_: it seems to be well-written, designed well and have a reasonable enough product range but i'm not sure yet
05:03:06 <alise> it's certainly a lot more trustworthy looking than your average site since it's not claiming to be a pharmacy, just a seller of melatonin which is technically a dietary supplement in the us
05:03:35 <alise> Wow, you can get it in syrup form. I suck at taking pills.
05:03:38 <pikhq> Yeah, it's on par with those "herbal supplement" things.
05:03:46 * Sgeo_ used to suck at taking pills.
05:03:58 <Sgeo_> Had to chew my medicine, even with dad angry at me about that
05:04:06 <alise> 5:04...
05:04:16 <Sgeo_> Wait, :04?
05:04:20 <pikhq> On the one hand, the FDA isn't regulating it at all. On the other, it *is* at least coming from an actual business, rather than "totally got your cold medicines by the gallon" meth suppliers or something.
05:04:25 <alise> pikhq: So a priori there's nothing inherently distrustworthy about a melatonin dealer.
05:04:32 <pikhq> Correct.
05:04:37 <alise> Combined with the well-written website with helpful dosage information and FAQs, etc, I'm inclined to trust it.
05:04:43 <Sgeo_> My computer's time is off by 6 minutes.
05:04:55 <alise> Plus, it's Utah.
05:05:02 <alise> They couldn't get away with shit in Utah. :P
05:05:16 <pikhq> Yeah; who the hell does anything crazy in Utah that's unrelated with Mormonism?
05:05:49 <alise> [[The usual dose for a night is 1–3 mg; I take 1.5mg.]] --gwern
05:05:56 <alise> So I should aim for 1.5mg.
05:06:08 <alise> I don't want NOW brand melatonin liquid, then, it's 3mg for one drop.
05:06:17 <pikhq> Gwern? I know someone who goes by that nickname.
05:06:19 <alise> "Natrol brand is a very low dose form of melatonin which is good for use with animals and special needs children." but 4 = 1 mg, so way too many drops
05:06:21 <alise> pikhq: It's the same guy.
05:06:25 <alise> Wikipedia, #haskell, Less Wrong.
05:06:27 <oerjan> Sgeo_: you sure you're not secretly in orbit at high speed, or something?
05:06:28 <alise> http://lesswrong.com/lw/1lt/case_study_melatonin/
05:06:35 <pikhq> Ah, sure enough.
05:07:00 <alise> pikhq: Say, you know how you can suppress your gag reflex by clenching your thumb in a fist?
05:07:09 <alise> I wonder if that lets you swallow pills if you just can't normally?
05:07:27 <Sgeo_> My house might secretly be in orbit
05:07:40 <Sgeo_> And it's not like I can go outside to check, considering the clothing I'm wearing
05:07:43 <pikhq> alise: Didn't realise.
05:07:47 <pikhq> I just... Swallow.
05:07:56 <alise> Awesome... 90 x 3mg melatonin tablets for $6.95 (sale price; $7.95 normally).
05:08:11 <alise> i.e., 0.07c per night.
05:08:20 <alise> Plus exorbitant shipping, naturally. :P
05:08:32 <Sgeo_> Awesome, I meant something in a disturbing way, but there's a clean interpretation.
05:08:33 <alise> pikhq: I try to swallow but it's like I have no connection to the swallow...muscle.
05:08:50 <alise> Sgeo_: Please hand me the mind bleach.
05:08:57 <alise> "Higher Strength with Sustained Release"
05:08:59 <alise> Who wants that shit!
05:09:02 <alise> Give me melatonin, now!
05:09:20 <alise> "That is: if one slept for 7 hours, one awakes as refreshed as if one had slept for 8 hours (and so on)." god this is just so amazing
05:09:28 <alise> I decide my bedtime an hour in advance, then get an extra hour in the day
05:09:29 <Sgeo_> Is it true?
05:09:32 <alise> why isn't, like, everyone on this
05:09:36 <alise> Sgeo_: is what true
05:09:41 <alise> gwern said it, must be true
05:09:49 <alise> "There are other benefits, such as enforcing a bedtime - invaluable for young people" <-- tell me about it
05:10:41 <alise> ah
05:10:45 <alise> 3mg is actually half an hour's waiting time
05:11:18 <alise> "You are so poor that 6 dollars every 150 or 300 days is a crippling expense."
05:11:28 <alise> so this is quite expensive melatonin that i'm looking at... but still ridiculously cheap
05:11:31 <alise> i just wonder what shipping is
05:11:37 <alise> /and/ what risks there are getting it shipped in
05:12:44 <alise> Oh, of course, I got it wrong
05:12:46 <alise> I'd take half a pill
05:12:49 <alise> so it's 90*2 actually, 180 days
05:13:01 <alise> Oh, wait, you can get 1.5 mg tablets direct here
05:13:09 <alise> 100 days for $5.95, not bad
05:13:30 <pikhq> Not targetted by the drug war, so pretty low.
05:14:04 <alise> ""Children and pregnant or nursing women should not take melatonin dietary supplements without a health professional's approval."
05:14:06 <alise> Oh shut UP.
05:14:07 <alise> *"Children
05:14:20 <alise> pikhq: yeah; I can't imagine they'd try and intercept it, as it'd look perfectly benign
05:14:25 <alise> and they'd hardly prosecute it
05:15:03 <alise> " You could also open a capsule and sprinkle into it into a drink"
05:15:05 <alise> Tempting.
05:15:06 <alise> *"You
05:15:09 <Ilari> Hah... Dosing reminds me of tale that one person brought one expert's recomendation to supplement with vitamin D. Well, he brought some powder that was supposed to contain 1kIU vitamin D per teaspoon. He took two teaspoons per day. Soon he got vitamin D poisoning (hmm... You can't get vitamin D poisoning with 2kIU per day)...
05:16:46 <alise> Ilari: Ha... ha... your jokes are so completely beyond me.
05:17:46 <alise> "I seemed to have more intense dreams the first several days taking it, but they seem to have gone back to normal (or I've gotten used to them/don't remember them)."
05:17:50 <Ilari> Well, turns out that powder wasn't 1kIU per teaspoon, it was 1MIU per teaspoon, so he was taking 2000kIU per day...
05:17:54 <alise> I hope they don't go back for me. I never remember my dreams.
05:17:59 <alise> Ilari: Ouch.
05:18:15 <pikhq> Ouch.
05:19:09 <alise> pikhq: Sweet, melatonin.com will ship to the UK.
05:19:27 <alise> Having controlled drugs illegally smuggled in has never been so cheap or appealing.
05:19:53 <alise> "Individuals with autism spectrum disorders (ASD) may have lower than normal levels of melatonin."
05:19:56 <alise> PROOF I HAVE ASPERGER'S!!1125112
05:20:23 <pikhq> That actually explains a lot.
05:20:35 <alise> I probably don't have Asperger's.
05:20:44 <alise> "Studies from Massachusetts Institute of Technology have said that melatonin pills sold as supplements contain three to ten times the amount needed to produce the desirable physiologic nocturnal blood melatonin level for a more rapid sleep onset. Dosages are designed to raise melatonin levels for several hours to enhance quality of sleep, but some studies suggest that smaller doses (for example 0.3 mg as opposed to 3 mg) are just as effective."
05:20:45 <pikhq> Such as why I find it very hard to sleep in most contexts.
05:20:48 <alise> I can't cut the pills that small!
05:21:00 <alise> pikhq: Good for you is that melatonin is readily available in the US :P
05:21:05 <pikhq> I cannot sleep in moving vehicles. At all.
05:21:10 <Ilari> Stupid research: Hey, lets give 500kIU vitamin D once per year and see what happens...
05:21:14 <alise> [[While the packaging of melatonin often warns against use in children, at least one long-term study[87] does assess effectiveness and safety in children. No serious safety concerns were noted in any of the 94 cases studied by means of a structured questionnaire for the parents. With a mean follow up time of 3.7 years, long-term medication was effective against sleep onset problems in 88% of the cases.]]
05:21:26 <alise> What is it with this automatic "CHILDREN CANNOT TAKE MEDICINE AT ALL" bullshit?
05:21:28 <alise> Happens with polyphasic sleep too.
05:21:34 <alise> There's this mythologisation of the growing process.
05:21:45 <alise> "Oh, we have no idea how you grow! Doing ANYTHING will upset your growth FOREVER and you will DIE a hideous manchild."
05:22:51 <alise> It's 5:22, I need to go to bed, that's what I need to doooooooooooooo
05:22:59 <alise> But that's okay because I am going to get me some n-acetyl-5-methoxytryptamine!
05:23:14 <Ilari> Heh... Tryptamine...
05:23:41 <Ilari> Why that name sounds familiar... :-)
05:23:52 <alise> You cannot send "Horror comics and matrices" in regular UK mail.
05:23:52 <alise> WTF?
05:24:05 <alise> Is that like a scary comic, plus a really gnarly matrix equation?
05:24:37 <alise> Oh, and if you were wondering what horror matrices are (as I was), M-W tells us that, a matrix is (among other things)
05:24:37 <alise> 2 a : a mold from which a relief surface (as a piece of type) is made b : DIE 3a(1) c : an engraved or inscribed die or stamp d : an electroformed impression of a phonograph record used for mass-producing duplicates of the original
05:24:42 <alise> That does not help.
05:24:58 * Sgeo_ should get ready for nightsleep
05:25:15 <alise> Restrictions
05:25:16 <alise> [...]
05:25:19 <alise> Live bees.
05:25:19 <alise> Live queen bees must be accompanied by an import license issued by a UK Government Agricultural Department and a health certificate issued by the appropriate Government Department of the country of origin stating that the bees are free of disease.
05:25:26 <alise> Live bees aren't even prohibited to send by mail.
05:25:28 <alise> Just RESTRICTED.
05:27:15 <Ilari> What about radioactive materials? :-)
05:27:42 <oerjan> black holes need to be properly secured
05:29:26 <alise> Ilari: germany prohibits those and melatonin :P
05:29:28 <alise> (and other stuff)
05:36:42 <alise> Hey, I just realised you can make anything into blank verse.
05:36:45 <alise> Just insert random newlines!
05:36:52 <alise> Well, okay, I realised that ... ages ago and I should sleep and 5:37 and
05:38:07 * oerjan yawns
05:38:27 <alise> oerjan: what time is it there
05:38:38 <oerjan> 6:38 AM
05:39:13 <alise> oerjan: you haven't slept?
05:39:48 <oerjan> not in a number of hours, no
05:40:13 <alise> Gregor: I ruined your program
05:40:14 <alise> er
05:40:15 <alise> Gregor: I ruined your poem
05:40:16 <alise> Blank verse is easier than rhyming for there's
05:40:16 <alise> No need to worry of timing, the problem
05:40:16 <alise> You see with blank verse
05:40:16 <alise> To me is that it's just an excuse
05:40:18 <alise> To write prose and
05:40:20 <alise> Call it poetry.
05:42:29 <pikhq> alise: I suggest adding rhythm.
05:42:50 <alise> pikhq: I was /trying/ to get rid of the rhythm :P
05:42:51 <alise> The original is:
05:42:55 <alise> Blank verse is easier than rhyming,
05:42:59 <alise> For there's no need to worry of timing.
05:43:04 <alise> The problem, you see, with blank verse, to me,
05:43:09 <alise> Is that it's just an excuse to write prose and call it poetry.
05:43:10 <alise> by Gregor
05:43:18 <alise> I modified the blank verse structure and made it horrible!
05:44:33 <alise> pikhq: Incidentally, the 1964 Concise OED lists gaol and rime as the recommended spellings of jail and rhyme. :-)
05:44:57 <pikhq> "rime" makes more sense, but gaol?
05:45:22 <alise> It's not about sense, just Britishness.
05:45:26 <alise> "Jail" and "rhyme" are Websterisms.
05:45:59 <alise> "To evaluate the etymology of words, Webster learned twenty-six languages, including Old English (Anglo-Saxon), German, Greek, Latin, Italian, Spanish, French, Hebrew, Arabic, and Sanskrit."
05:46:28 <pikhq> Right, and I suppose you write programmes from your gaol cell that you're in for putting a kipper in the copper's bonnet?
05:47:30 <alise> Yep.
05:47:38 <alise> I meant that the OED did it for Britishness.
05:47:44 <alise> pikhq: Hey, I propose we all use dord to mean density.
05:47:49 <alise> [[Gove wrote that this was "probably too bad, for why shouldn't dord mean 'density'?"]]
05:48:56 <alise> You know, descriptivists don't have to make rubbish dictionaries.
05:49:27 <alise> What on earth is wrong with making a dictionary with recommendations and omitting certain variations, etc. -- any more than writing a manual of style is wrong? It's less anal an endeavour than writing a MoS.
05:49:35 <alise> Nothing to do with prescriptivism or descriptivism.
05:53:20 <alise> pikhq: I still say aeroplane, aluminium, moustache, pyjamas, speciality, -re and -ise, doubled "l"s, and retain the "e"s when adding suffixes.
05:53:27 <alise> So bah, I retain some of my Britishosity.
05:54:28 <alise> I do say fetus, because foetus is Just Wrong.
05:54:33 <alise> I say grey too.
05:54:38 <pikhq> alise: I think I'm allowed to be bitter about it as well, even though I only retain a few such things.
05:55:05 <alise> And tyre.
05:55:22 <alise> I do use double quotes, however.
05:55:29 <Sgeo_> Isn't Pyjamas the name of something I asked about once?
05:55:51 <Sgeo_> I like the British "punctuation outside quotes, unless the punctuation's being quoted" thing
05:56:00 <pikhq> As one of my ancestors (Joe Worcester) wrote Worcester's Dictionary, which competed against Webster's, and retained older spellings.
05:56:07 <alise> Sgeo_: yes.
05:56:20 <alise> pikhq: Wow, you have heritage... incestuous heritage, at that.
05:56:33 <alise> There's actually a lot about it on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster%27s_Dictionary.
05:57:12 <alise> I can't figure out the OED's pronunciation notation.
05:57:15 <pikhq> Incestuous?
05:57:23 <alise> ...the OED2 uses IPA!
05:57:23 <pikhq> The OED uses IPA, doesn't it?
05:57:34 <alise> Well the proper OED uses its own notation *grumble* 1960s *grumble*
05:57:39 <alise> OED2 is unacceptable
05:57:51 <Sgeo_> "dawter"? [Webster's spelling]
05:58:01 <alise> pikhq: Is your family not that inbreeding one?
05:58:16 <pikhq> alise: Not the Worcesters.
05:58:20 <pikhq> The Hatfields.
05:58:27 <alise> I'm sure you said something about cousins.
05:58:41 <pikhq> Yes, because of the Hatfields I am my own cousin.
05:58:47 <alise> Damn Hatfields.
05:58:54 <alise> pikhq: Is there a ... certain sauce in your family's past?
05:59:14 <alise> (Joking.)
05:59:23 <pikhq> It comes from the shire containing the town from which I have my last name.
05:59:44 <pikhq> Why in the world my last name comes from a town is beyond me
05:59:45 <alise> Proposal: We should write a dictionary! Yay?
06:00:16 * Sgeo_ takes a melatonin
06:00:25 <alise> Sgeo_: 30 minutes before bed?
06:00:29 <alise> What dosage, 1.5mg?
06:00:38 <Sgeo_> No, just when there's not much to do before I sleep
06:00:41 <Sgeo_> 3mg
06:00:47 <alise> Sgeo_: Ouch, bad.
06:00:49 <alise> 3mg is too much.
06:00:56 <alise> Take 1.5mg, 30 minutes prior to when you want to sleep.
06:00:56 <Sgeo_> ??
06:01:02 <alise> Not too much as in you-will-die.
06:01:06 <alise> But too much as in not-ideal-for-sleepy.
06:01:15 <Sgeo_> Source?
06:01:32 <alise> gwern, Wikipedia, melatonin.com.
06:03:11 <Sgeo_> I need to write down my ambitious plans for making parts of the code much, much easier
06:03:15 <Sgeo_> It's a bit late, but still
06:06:10 <alise> 6:06 fuck fuck fuck
06:08:27 <Sgeo_> Sleep now
06:08:47 <alise> NO!
06:08:50 <alise> TVTROPES
06:08:55 <alise> YyayayayayayaYyayYAYAYA
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06:10:33 <alise> kpodfk
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06:23:59 <pikhq> Hmm. I think I can render my name with kanji. 榛森市・神支
06:24:05 <pikhq> Very, very freaking weird name.
06:24:30 <pikhq> "City of the Alder-Wood, The Lord Protects". God damn I have a weird name.
06:30:25 <alise> sleep soon
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06:37:37 <alise> NIGHT
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07:04:28 <Sgeo_> 10 minutes off
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09:03:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Still going at the MUD?
09:07:52 <coppro> probably
09:08:19 <coppro> `quote disturbing
09:08:35 <HackEgo> No output.
09:08:43 <coppro> :/
09:08:47 <coppro> `quotes
09:09:03 <HackEgo> No output.
09:09:16 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote
09:09:26 <Phantom_Hoover> !quote
09:09:28 <coppro> he's slow today
09:09:30 <coppro> 1help
09:09:32 <HackEgo> No output.
09:09:32 <coppro> `help
09:09:34 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
09:09:41 <Phantom_Hoover> `quotes
09:09:42 <coppro> bugger
09:09:44 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote
09:09:57 <HackEgo> No output.
09:10:00 <HackEgo> No output.
09:10:32 <coppro> `revert 1522
09:10:34 <HackEgo> Done.
09:10:36 <coppro> `quotes
09:10:53 <HackEgo> No output.
09:11:31 <coppro> `quote
09:11:47 <HackEgo> No output.
09:12:45 <coppro> blargh
09:13:27 <Phantom_Hoover> What happened?
09:14:23 <coppro> no clue
09:14:42 <coppro> `ls quotes
09:14:59 <HackEgo> No output.
09:15:12 <coppro> `ls
09:15:28 <HackEgo> No output.
09:15:47 <coppro> `run ls
09:15:59 <coppro> I think something is broken...
09:16:04 <HackEgo> No output.
09:16:04 <coppro> Gregor!
09:16:21 <coppro> `cat foo >testfile
09:16:37 <HackEgo> No output.
09:17:01 <coppro> `cat testfile
09:17:17 <HackEgo> No output.
09:17:22 <coppro> hackego is so broken
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09:22:54 -!- HackEgo has joined.
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09:23:06 <Phantom_Hoover> `ls
09:23:08 <HackEgo> bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ test.sh \ tmpdir.8344 \ wunderbar_emporium
09:23:11 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote
09:23:13 <HackEgo> 15|<Lil`Cube> wouldn't that be considered pedophilia? <Quas_NaArt> No. They all go by stage names.
09:23:16 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote
09:23:19 <HackEgo> 50|<oklopol> i'm not a porn star, no
09:23:22 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote
09:23:24 <HackEgo> 29|IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: <bsmntbombdood> there is plenty of room to get head twice at once
09:23:44 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote Turing
09:23:46 <HackEgo> 128|<Slereah> I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 178|<coppro>
09:23:57 <Phantom_Hoover> `quote 178
09:23:58 <coppro> yay
09:23:59 <HackEgo> 178|<coppro> we'd care about a turing-complete pencil
09:24:06 <coppro> thanks
09:24:20 <coppro> `revert 1528
09:24:23 <HackEgo> Done.
09:25:30 <coppro> `quote disturbing
09:25:32 <HackEgo> 180|<coppro> what's the data of? [...] <Sgeo> Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation <coppro> I have no problems with you being interested in online games <coppro> but the necrophilia is disturbing
09:26:53 * Sgeo vaguely wonders what an ItemsManager is doing in UserManager.cs
09:27:04 <Sgeo> I did not write this code.
09:33:22 <Phantom_Hoover> .cs?
09:33:27 <Deewiant> C#
09:33:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Caesium?
09:33:28 <Sgeo> C#
09:33:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Bah, it should be Caesium.
09:33:59 <Phantom_Hoover> There should be more languages named after elements.
09:34:55 <Sgeo> On the plus side, the guy who wrote the code had the patience to fiddle with numbers to get whatever pixels just right. I do not have such patience
09:34:59 <Sgeo> <<==not a GUI person
09:37:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Ugh, GUIs.
09:37:43 <coppro> Caesium is Cu
09:37:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Does anyone here enjoy them?
09:37:45 <coppro> *Cs
09:37:48 * coppro is Cu
09:37:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes.
09:37:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Cu is copper/
09:37:55 <coppro> no. no one enjoys GUIs
09:37:59 -!- coppro has changed nick to Cu.
09:38:40 <Gregor> D'awww, now you're not pooppy any more :(
09:41:03 <AnMaster> morning
09:41:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, no-one enjoys writing GUIs.
09:41:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Using them is quite pleasant.
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09:43:12 <Phantom_Hoover> And necessary, until someone invents a good console-based web browser.
09:43:31 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, what is wrong with the current ones?
09:43:41 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, also frame buffer based gimp would be needed
09:43:50 <Phantom_Hoover> I haven't seen any that have JS.
09:44:16 <AnMaster> bah, js shouldn't be required!
09:51:26 <Phantom_Hoover> It's necessary.
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09:51:45 <Cu> why is JS necessarily necessary?
09:51:59 <Cu> it shouldn't be for browsing
09:52:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Because it's used in so many places?
09:52:09 <Cu> CSS, yes
09:52:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, not /necessary/, just very useful.
09:52:42 <Cu> the prosecution rests
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10:15:40 <Sgeo> And I learn the hard way why I should include parentheses around anything I'm not sure about
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12:31:07 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, what was that thing about parentheses?
12:33:27 <Sgeo> ((Player != null) && !Pieces.Exists(piece => piece.Obj.Model == "vla_cone") || !Pieces.Exists(piece => piece.Obj.Model == "vla_cylinder"))
12:33:50 <Sgeo> When there were no cylinders, the expression was true, despite Player being null
12:36:19 <Phantom_Hoover> What are you working on?
12:36:48 <Sgeo> The Project
12:36:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Which Project?
12:37:06 <Sgeo> The Game
12:37:08 <Phantom_Hoover> I wish I had a Project..
12:37:23 <Sgeo> My Project used to be PSOX
12:37:40 <AnMaster> you could rewrite it to a form that doesn't require any extra parentheses. That is assuming none of the involved variables are volatile
12:37:57 <Sgeo> Oh?
12:38:08 <Sgeo> I mean, besides using nested ifs?
12:38:21 <AnMaster> Sgeo, well, it follows from Boolean logic rules
12:38:47 <AnMaster> trying to remember what the term is
12:40:20 <AnMaster> ah yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunctive_normal_form
12:40:29 <AnMaster> Sgeo, it might not be very practical though
12:40:51 <AnMaster> Sgeo, anyway always test your code. Should catch such bugs as that you mentioned
12:42:11 <Sgeo> Well, without unit testing, the situation was unlikely to occur
12:42:30 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I would recommend unit testing if at all possible
12:43:07 <Sgeo> I'm not sure how it's possible, with this much code, some of it _very_ poorly designed, already written
12:43:43 <Sgeo> Idiot other person took my project-independent code, scrapped it, and replaced it with code heavily tied in with the project, and with less functionality
12:43:54 <AnMaster> revert?
12:44:03 <Sgeo> This was a very, very long time ago
12:44:18 <Sgeo> I am planning a bit of a rewrite of that stuff, though
12:44:22 <Sgeo> Oh, and he named it "Object"
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12:45:24 <Sgeo> Anyways, 99% of the current code depends on his code
12:45:32 <Sgeo> Well, maybe not literally 99%
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12:47:40 <Sgeo> At any rate, I don't know how to mock static objects
12:48:01 <AnMaster> hm
12:48:30 <Sgeo> We're planning a public alpha :/
12:48:35 <AnMaster> Sgeo, I usually prefer making most code pure, makes unit testing easier, then you keep the non-pure code to a small section of the code
12:48:52 <AnMaster> but functional programming in C would be weird
12:49:00 <Sgeo> This is C#, not C
12:49:11 <AnMaster> ah thought it was C++
12:49:25 <AnMaster> or C with function pointers in structs
12:49:42 <AnMaster> but hm the => isn't C and probably not C++ either
12:49:49 <AnMaster> so yeah guess I should have spotted that
12:49:51 <Phantom_Hoover> What is it?
12:49:56 <Phantom_Hoover> The =>
12:50:02 <Sgeo> lambda
12:50:41 <Sgeo> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb397687.aspx
12:51:27 <AnMaster> piece => piece.Obj.Model == "vla_cone"
12:51:28 <AnMaster> err
12:51:34 <AnMaster> so the first is argument?
12:51:40 <Sgeo> Yes
12:52:22 <AnMaster> hm
12:54:20 <Sgeo> AFK
13:03:17 <Phantom_Hoover> C-derivatives and lambdas should not mix.
13:03:29 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a crime in the name of Church.
13:03:58 <Phantom_Hoover> s/name/eyes/
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13:06:46 <zzo38> I found the new page "Peyo" but I have idea how to write "smurf" more
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13:39:50 <alise> [[New mayor of Reykjavik refuses to form coalition with any party whose members haven't seen all five seasons of "The Wire."]]
13:39:51 <alise> [[REYKJAVIK, Iceland — A polar bear display for the zoo. Free towels at public swimming pools. A “drug-free Parliament by 2020.” Iceland’s Best Party, founded in December by a comedian, Jon Gnarr, to satirize his country’s political system, ran a campaign that was one big joke. Or was it?]]
13:40:12 <alise> reykjavik have accidentally elected an awesome mayor
13:40:47 <alise> In his acceptance speech he tried to calm the fears of the other 65.3 percent. “No one has to be afraid of the Best Party,” he said, “because it is the best party. If it wasn’t, it would be called the Worst Party or the Bad Party. We would never work with a party like that.”
13:41:27 <alise> A sandy-haired 43-year-old, Mr. Gnarr is best known here for playing a television and film character named Georg Bjarnfredarson, a nasty, bald, middle-aged, Swedish-educated Marxist whose childhood was ruined by a militant feminist mother.
13:42:16 <alise> The Best Party, whose members include a who’s who of Iceland’s punk rock scene, formed a coalition with the center-left Social Democrats (despite Mr. Gnarr’s suspicion that party leaders had assigned an underling to watch “The Wire” and take notes). With that, Mr. Gnarr took office last week, hoping to serve out a full, four-year term, and the new government granted free admission to swimming pools for everyone under 18. Its plans include turning
13:42:17 <alise> Reykjavik, with its plentiful supply of geothermal energy, into a hub for electric cars.
13:42:23 <alise> these guys oughtta get reelected
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14:41:31 <alise> abc
14:45:35 <Deewiant> abc
14:46:11 <alise> def
14:46:14 <Deewiant> sft
14:47:25 <alise> qwert
14:47:35 <Deewiant> qwfpg
14:54:44 <alise> dvora
14:55:01 <Deewiant> svypa
14:56:20 <alise> http://www.vuvuzela.fm/
14:56:42 <alise> Oh god I can't take it.
14:57:01 <Deewiant> hgg;O//www.vlvlzfia.tm/
14:58:27 <alise> vulvas fia(TM)
14:58:47 <Deewiant> s/O/"/
14:59:13 <Deewiant> Actually hmm
14:59:49 <alise> : is third-last in middle row
14:59:51 <Deewiant> No, O was right
14:59:53 <alise> if you want to locate the key
15:00:01 <Deewiant> My keys are physically different too
15:00:12 <alise> yes, but I mean to locate where it would be
15:00:38 <Deewiant> L;'\ ?
15:00:56 <Deewiant> Or L;'<enter> ?
15:00:59 <Deewiant> Or what
15:16:00 <alise> ?
15:16:06 <alise> hjkl;'#[enter]
15:16:15 <alise> : is capital ;
15:17:09 <Deewiant> # O_o
15:17:46 <alise> ~ is capital #
15:17:48 <alise> british keyboard
15:17:52 <alise> @ is capital '
15:17:54 <alise> " is capital 2
15:18:04 <Deewiant> Ah, it's "Keyboard layout" on Wikipedia that has all the pics, not "QWERTY"
15:18:06 <alise> ¬ is capital `, which is the key before 1
15:18:10 <Deewiant> I was wondering why I couldn't find them
15:18:16 <alise> and altgr-` is |
15:18:24 <Deewiant> But yeah, okay; O was right.
15:18:26 <alise> normally broken dash in e.g. broken OSes (old windows and stuff)
15:20:26 <Deewiant> kypmaiij bpyefk sarh uk f.d. bpyefk YRfr 9yis wuksywr aks rgltt0
15:20:43 <alise> "Fabrice Bellard: FFmpeg, QEMU, and TCC, among others. This guy is amazing."
15:20:45 <alise> ...obviously.
15:26:16 <AnMaster> alise, and unless I misremember also IOCCC winner in some category one year.
15:26:28 <alise> Yes, with his self-compiling subset-o-fC compiler.
15:26:29 <myndzi> |
15:26:29 <myndzi> >\
15:26:34 <alise> *of-C.
15:26:35 <AnMaster> alise, ah right
15:26:41 <alise> The man is a god.
15:27:01 <Deewiant> Two years, no?
15:27:27 <alise> Yes.
15:27:34 <alise> I forget what the other year was.
15:27:55 <alise> http://www.ioccc.org/2004/gavin.c
15:27:56 <alise> http://www.ioccc.org/2004/gavin.hint
15:28:09 <alise> oh wait
15:28:12 <alise> that's just mentioning qemu
15:28:33 <alise> http://www.de.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.c
15:28:34 <alise> http://www.de.ioccc.org/2000/bellard.hint
15:28:48 <alise> It's an FFT.
15:28:55 <alise> Understandable from the author of ffmpeg.
15:29:01 <alise> This program prints the biggest known prime number (2^6972593-1)
15:29:01 <alise> in base 10. It requires a few minutes. It uses a Modular Fast
15:29:01 <alise> Fourier Transform to compute this number in a reasonable amount
15:29:01 <alise> of time (the usual method would take ages !).
15:29:42 <alise> Hey, Bernstein won one year.
15:29:58 <alise> Deewiant: Note that he didn't win as in Best of Show.
15:30:08 <alise> Just "Most Specific Output" -- prime number one -- and "Best abuse of the rules" -- for otcc.
15:30:19 <Deewiant> Takes 10 seconds on my machine
15:30:39 <Deewiant> And yes; like AnMaster said, "in some category".
15:31:24 <alise> OTCC should have been Best of Show, really.
15:32:21 <alise> Walter Bright also was a winner I.S.C. (in some category), 1986.
15:32:27 <Deewiant> How did it abuse the rules?
15:32:45 <alise> Lennart Augustsson, a.k.a. augustss of Haskell fame; three times, including one Best of Show.
15:32:47 <alise> Deewiant: I don't know.
15:33:10 <alise> Judges' Comments:
15:33:10 <alise> To build:
15:33:10 <alise> make bellard
15:33:10 <alise> Try:
15:33:10 <alise> ./bellard bellard.otccex.c
15:33:11 <alise> <JUDGES_COMMENTS>
15:33:13 <alise> Sheds no light :P
15:33:19 <Deewiant> Yep
15:34:58 <Deewiant> What's New?
15:34:59 <Deewiant> * 30 April 2010: Announcement coming soon. Check back here on 15 May 2010!
15:35:14 <alise> David Korn one I.S.C., 1987 Best One Liner.
15:36:16 <alise> From the San Jose Mercury News (May 15, 1993 page 20A "West Hackers
15:36:16 <alise> trounce East in computer quiz game"):
15:36:16 <alise> "Since 1984, a contest has been held on Usenet for the most
15:36:16 <alise> unreadable, creative, bizarre but working C program", Gates
15:36:16 <alise> said. "What is the name of this contest?"
15:36:17 <alise> "Windows," shot back Gassee, naming Microsoft's premier product
15:36:19 <alise> - a product over which Apple sued Microsoft five years ago. Not
15:36:21 <alise> the right answer - it's "The Obfuscated C Contest [sic]" - but
15:36:23 <alise> it brought down the house of Apple partisans...
15:36:25 <alise> [The expression on Bill Gates' face was a sight to behold, as reported
15:36:27 <alise> to us by several who were there].
15:37:15 <alise> John Tromp won best game '89.
15:37:28 <alise> Larry Wall run twice, obviously, '86/7.
15:37:32 <alise> (I.S.C.)
15:37:44 <alise> "John Williams" I woner if... naw. :P
15:42:23 <alise> guys -- if you're planning to have a child in 2011, please do it on the 11th of february
15:42:30 <alise> your kid's birthday will be 11/11/11.
15:42:41 <alise> or 2011-11-11, which is almost as good.
15:47:19 <alise> Hahaha there's a football icon on YouTube right now, it overlays the video with a vuvuzuela noise.
15:48:21 <alise> I sure am monologueing today.
15:51:31 <Deewiant> That's been there for a few days.
15:52:19 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:55:01 <oerjan> `quote turing
15:55:03 <HackEgo> 128|<Slereah> I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love 178|<coppro> we'd care about a turing-complete pencil
15:55:22 <alise> Deewiant: yeah but i didn't notice it :P
15:55:25 <alise> oerjan: wat
15:56:14 <oerjan> alise: someone played around with HackEgo recently and briefly reverted my bug fix, i just checked if they'd re-reverted
15:56:19 <alise> ah
15:56:22 <alise> `help
15:56:23 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
15:56:40 <alise> "I can do everything a Turing machine can do, except love" is one of my favourite Slereah quotes
15:56:46 <alise> well, probably my favourite
15:57:46 <alise> `quote elf corpses
15:57:47 <HackEgo> No output.
15:57:52 <alise> `quote CakeProphet
15:57:54 <HackEgo> 187|<CakeProphet> how does a "DNA computer" work. <CakeProphet> von neumann machines? <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, that's boring in the context of DNA. <Phantom_Hoover> It's just stealing the universe's work and passing it off as our own. 188|<fungot> CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a
15:57:56 <Deewiant> `quote elf
15:57:58 <HackEgo> 64|<Deewiant> I spent the last minute or so killing myself repeatedly 138|<ais523> so a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.com might be self-relative, but a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com always means a.b.c.d.e.f.g.h.i.j.k.l.com.? 159|<soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien
15:58:02 <alise> `quote corpses
15:58:03 <HackEgo> 190|<fungot> ais523: elf corpses are not considered expensive health food. but the most expensive.
15:58:05 <alise> there
15:58:13 <alise> botte will be far more reliable using grep grumble
15:58:25 <alise> `quote fax
15:58:26 <HackEgo> 96|<fax> im the worst person in the world 140|<fax> oklopol geez what are you doing here <oklokok> ...i don't know :< <oklokok> i actually ate until now, although i guess i also did other things... 154|<fax> sekuoir: that's just gay sex <sekuoir> I am learning though! 156|<fax> okay I see it now, quines do exist 157|<fax>
15:58:30 <alise> `quote 157
15:58:31 <HackEgo> 157|<fax> we all know that didn't happen
15:58:32 <alise> `quote soupdragon
15:58:35 <HackEgo> 159|<soupdragon> if you claim that the universe is more than 3D the burden of proof is on you to produce a klien bottle that doesn't self intersect <soupdragon> ^ I learned that trick from atheists
15:58:37 <alise> always great for a laugh!
16:08:57 <AnMaster> oerjan, your bug fix being?
16:09:03 <oerjan> <zzo38> I found the new page "Peyo" but I have idea how to write "smurf" more <-- i guess a smurf is replaced by previous word that could be used in the same context, approximately, although that sounds like a recipe for great pain, i.e. a feature
16:09:11 <oerjan> *the previous
16:09:57 <oerjan> AnMaster: `quote with a search term sometimes cut off the result in the middle, i replaced an xargs echo with fmt -w500 and that helped
16:11:04 <AnMaster> ah
16:19:45 <alise> What? There's sites selling melatonin in the UK.
16:19:51 <alise> But it's a prescription-only drug, according to Wikipedia...
16:20:12 <alise> I'm ultra-confused now, but I think this means I at least don't have to pay the shipping from Utah.
16:21:27 <alise> "I understand from a uk chemist that melatonin is only available in the uk on prescription, it appears the uk sites offering it online are either doing so illegally or may well be traps, yes i fell for that racket years ago, at the time you think ok they sell valium, xanax, diet slimming pills etc, so i ordered them, oh yes after checking out the uk law on importing phentermine, valium, zanax etc and it was ok, not illegal, even checked out at a main libar
16:21:27 <alise> y law section, even got a solicitors ok and my gp confirmed ok to buy from a dummy (realise now setup site) supposed to be in south africa called speedrx, what a absolute fool i was, i knew at the time my computer was hacked, my gp kept prescribing rohypnol for sleep and always said the home office will be asking questions soon, it all adds up now since i stopped taking those drugs, i feel like the biggest mug on earth, how daft was i, if only i could reli
16:21:28 <alise> ve my life."
16:21:30 <alise> what the heck XD
16:22:06 <alise> wow he goes on to say that all drugs are bad and evil mind-destroying things, i don't think he understands what medicine is
16:26:50 <oerjan> so not exactly a (mentally) balanced view, there?
16:28:46 <alise> indeed.
16:30:07 <pikhq> He also seems to have made that a single sentence.
16:30:19 <alise> pikhq: two more paragraphs that are also single sentences afterwards; glorious
16:30:49 <alise> I love how he's portraying melatonin as this unnatural, evil, mind-destroying drug that will get you addicted and the Home Office will come after you and you will be set up by a shady south african site and it will destroy your life.
16:30:56 <oerjan> maybe he needs some valium :D
16:31:00 <alise> http://www.answerbag.com/a_view/4038309 link to the crazy
16:31:18 <alise> the comments are best:
16:31:30 <alise> "This doesn't answer the question and in fact, your advice is pretty dangerous."
16:31:32 <alise> "It was not meant to be dangerous, i do not know what part you are refering too, maybe the internet address where i bought those drugs, no worries it closed down many years ago.
16:31:32 <alise> I was simply trying to warn people how they can without thinking run into traps and may well be buying banned goods, anyway i do not think the uk would have banned melatonin for nothing."
16:35:54 <alise> pikhq: Wow... the cost for getting 180 days' worth of melatonin including shipping from Utah to the UK is only £13.60 ($20.45).
16:36:04 <alise> That's... a really good price considering the shipping distance.
16:36:23 <alise> The non-shipping actual-melatonin part of that cost is $6.95 (on sale; normally $7.95).
16:36:42 <alise> I /could/ get it from a UK site, but considering it is almost certainly illegal to sell melatonin in the UK, as it's prescription only, I think I'll stick to a significantly less shady source.
16:38:21 <Ilari> Sometimes stuff gets banned because conflicts of interest, not because of any known harm.
16:38:54 <Ilari> But then, on the other hand, some very harmful stuff is still on markets due to same kinds of conflicts of interest.
16:40:14 <Mathnerd314> alise: why do you want melatonin?
16:40:28 <alise> Mathnerd314: I am completely unable to control my sleep schedule.
16:40:40 <alise> I have good evidence that melatonin will help vastly with no side-effects.
16:40:44 <alise> Thus...
16:41:00 <alise> Ilari: I think melatonin is prescription-only just because it is, nobody's bothered to change it I guess
16:41:09 <alise> all studies suggest it is completely harmless; short-term adult usage and long-term child usage have been studied.
16:45:17 <pikhq> The US never even bothered to regulate it.
16:57:40 * pikhq goes back to work on Flinix
16:58:23 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:58:32 <pikhq> I think I'm going to *try* to get it to work using GCC 4.5's LTO.
17:09:59 <alise> pikhq: DAMMIT MY FLINIX IS SUPERIOR :|
17:10:04 <alise> I cut down my kernel for you /sniff
17:14:58 <pikhq> alise: Let's see if LTO makes my binaries awesome.
17:15:09 <pikhq> I strongly suspect the inliner will love me.
17:15:15 <alise> FUCK GCC.
17:15:17 <alise> :|
17:15:29 <alise> pikhq: The name Flinix isn't big enough for the two of us.
17:15:40 <alise> I came up with it so it's MY name, you pick one, you thiefing heathen :P
17:16:24 <pikhq> フリニクス
17:16:45 <alise> You may call it Furinikusu.
17:17:55 <alise> pikhq: How do you write the digit "one" in japanese? 25? 11?
17:18:03 <alise> As words, like "one" or "eleven" or "twenty-five".
17:20:09 <pikhq> Arabic 1 or Chinese 一.
17:20:32 <pikhq> Oh, write out as words.
17:20:54 <alise> Yeah.
17:20:56 <pikhq> 一 "ichi", 二十五 "nijuugo", 十一 "juuichi".
17:21:18 <alise> Is that one, eleven, twenty-five?
17:21:56 <alise> never mind
17:21:57 <alise> pikhq: 一と二十五分の十一メガバイト
17:21:59 <alise> You can have that name.
17:22:15 <alise> "52/10 MB and 1"
17:22:17 <alise> You have failed me.
17:22:25 <alise> You gave me 52 and 10, not 25 and 11. :(
17:22:55 <pikhq> No, the translator failed horridly.
17:23:25 <alise> So that does, in fact, say "one and eleven twenty-fifths megabytes"?
17:24:33 <alise> And 一分の二 is a very convoluted way of what Google tells me should be 半分?
17:27:28 <pikhq> That does, in fact, say something like one and eleven twenty-fifths megabytes.
17:27:40 <alise> Something "like"? :P
17:27:41 <pikhq> And yes, that is a very convoluted way of saying 半分.
17:27:57 <alise> 一分の円周率 ;; math should just use japanese as its notation
17:28:28 <alise> pikhq: what's the japanese analogy of "x"?
17:28:31 <alise> as the placeholder variable
17:28:33 <pikhq> alise: x
17:28:40 <alise> So they literally just... put x in there?
17:28:47 <alise> What's the equivalent of foo then?
17:29:04 <pikhq> Unless you mean Japanese mathematical notation, which was lasted used a couple centuries ago.
17:29:31 <alise> I'm INVENTING Japanese mathematical notation!
17:29:53 <alise> オの微分の二乗 ==> derivative of x squared
17:30:00 <alise> i.e. d/dx x^2
17:30:13 <pikhq> They do have notations for calculus.
17:30:20 <alise> I decided to use オ as the placeholder for no particular reason other than it just translates to "O".
17:30:32 <alise> "Square of the derivative of o"
17:30:34 <alise> BAD GOOGLE TRANSLATE! BAD!
17:30:37 <pikhq> Actually, that's just one reading.
17:30:38 <alise> Is that really what it comes out as?
17:30:43 <alise> Ah.
17:30:47 <alise> So the usual reading would be right?
17:30:53 <alise> Who cares about ambiguity!
17:31:02 <alise> ...also, any link to japanese mathematical notation?
17:31:06 <pikhq> It means "genius".
17:31:08 <pikhq> No.
17:31:16 <pikhq> Oh, wait.
17:31:27 <alise> the placeholder meaning "genius" is like sooo deep man
17:31:30 <pikhq> You're using katakana オ, not 才.
17:31:32 <alise> it's a genius because it takes all kinds of values
17:31:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
17:31:58 <alise> so is "オの微分の二乗" "square of the derivative of オ" or "derivative of the square of オ"?
17:32:57 <alise> Any other nice single letters that read just as "O"?
17:33:43 <alise> お is apparently "I"; good enough.
17:35:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
17:35:58 <pikhq> That's hiragana "o".
17:36:01 <alise> "和オ、一、お、オはおおプラス二乗の半分である"
17:36:03 <alise> this was meant to be
17:36:21 <alise> "sum o, 1, i, o is half i squared plus i"
17:36:51 <pikhq> Uh...
17:36:54 <pikhq> No.
17:36:59 <pikhq> It's gibberish.
17:39:35 <alise> indeed
17:39:53 <alise> pikhq: オから合計オは1とおとしておの半分プラスお乗
17:40:00 <alise> This is impossible
17:40:02 <alise> "Plus your total power from Oh Oh Too As one half ax"
17:43:53 <AnMaster> alise, wait, are you already out of greek letters for your equation? ;P
17:44:01 <AnMaster> bbl food
17:44:42 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:45:06 <alise> pikhq: Someone rewrote The Big Lebowski. That someone is Shakespeare.
17:45:40 <alise> I present to you the moſt excellent comedie and tragical romance of TWO GENTLEMEN OF LEBOWSKI.
17:45:46 <alise> Site: http://www.runleiarun.com/lebowski/
17:45:50 <alise> PDF: http://cl.ly/1UJ0
17:46:59 <pikhq> ../../../gcc-4.5.0/libgcc/config/libbid/bid_decimal_globals.c:47:18: fatal error: fenv.h: No such file or directory
17:47:02 <pikhq> FUCK YOU GCC
17:48:42 <alise> On January 6, 2010, Bertocci posted "Two Gentlemen of Lebowski", a melding of The Big Lebowski with the language and writing style of William Shakespeare[1]. A sold-out off-off-Broadway production of the play ran from March 18 to April 4[2].
17:48:48 <alise> Wow, they actually performed it.
17:49:54 <alise> "The revised text references or quote every play in the Shakespearean canon (as agreed upon by all scholars—sorry, apocrypha), as well as the Sonnets and the poem The Rape of Lucrece."
17:58:06 -!- cal153 has joined.
17:58:25 <pikhq> /home/pikhq/flinix/bld/./gcc/as: line 83: /flinix-lto/i386-pc-linux-uclibc/bin/as: No such file or directory
17:58:28 <pikhq> EFF YOU
17:58:43 -!- cal153 has quit (Client Quit).
17:59:02 <alise> pikhq: Hmm, if I have a directory structure with bin/ as auxiliary commands, where should system files be kept? Internal system files. I don't particularly care about FHS, what would Unix say, do you think?
17:59:02 <alise> /sys?
18:00:09 <Cu> /data
18:00:48 <alise> it isn't data, it's internal system executables (but not of the kin or kind of those in /bin)
18:01:14 <alise> say, this directory would contain the kernel and internal-kernel-libraries, unusable by the program type that lives in /bin executed by that kernel. So?
18:01:16 <pikhq> configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES.
18:01:19 <pikhq> DOUBLE FUCK YOU
18:01:32 <alise> pikhq: i forgot how to fix that
18:02:30 <alise> The context is botte. ~/bin contains all the commands.
18:02:44 <alise> Note that ~ doesn't have to mean /home/botte; it sets HOME to its root so that commands can say things like ~/var/quotes.
18:02:50 <alise> You could easily have it in, e.g. /usr/botte or similar.
18:03:35 <pikhq> alise: I'm going with "have the initial GCC build against uClibc instead of newlib".
18:03:39 -!- Gregor-L has joined.
18:03:56 <alise> pikhq: Don't use newlib.
18:04:02 <alise> Newlib is primarily for platforms without OSes.
18:04:12 <pikhq> And for bootstrapping before you have a libc.
18:04:17 <alise> Yeah.
18:04:27 <pikhq> On the other hand, I can cross-compile this libc.
18:04:42 <pikhq> Without a cross-compiler.
18:04:43 <pikhq> Hooray, cheats.
18:06:07 <pikhq> checking dynamic linker characteristics... configure: error: Link tests are not allowed after GCC_NO_EXECUTABLES.
18:06:10 <pikhq> GOD DAMN YOU
18:07:43 <pikhq> Hmm. Gentoo appears to have "uclibc patches". I'll look.
18:07:57 <pikhq> (for GCC)
18:23:59 <pikhq> ... It's trying to bootstrap.
18:26:15 -!- Gregor-L has changed nick to Gregor.
18:26:18 <Gregor> Because the Bible tells it so.
18:27:29 <AnMaster> <pikhq> ../../../gcc-4.5.0/libgcc/config/libbid/bid_decimal_globals.c:47:18: fatal error: fenv.h: No such file or directory
18:27:34 <AnMaster> pikhq, how did you manage that?
18:28:03 <AnMaster> pikhq, two guesses: cross compiling or very very outdated headers
18:28:11 <AnMaster> possibly both
18:28:24 <pikhq> AnMaster: Cross-compiler.
18:28:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:29:03 -!- augur has joined.
18:29:04 <AnMaster> pikhq, ah. hm either gcc should provide it (like it does for stdarg.h and so on) or the libc should provide it
18:29:07 <AnMaster> that header I mean
18:29:27 <AnMaster> not sure which
18:30:14 <AnMaster> pikhq, if you are building a cross toolchain from scratch you probably need to tell gcc where you have newlib or such. At least that was how you did it during 3.x age. Haven't built any more modern gcc as cross compiler
18:30:44 <alise> http://i.imgur.com/ADdQy.jpg
18:31:26 <pikhq> AnMaster: GCC comes with newlib.
18:31:35 <AnMaster> pikhq, hm separate download iirc?
18:31:51 <pikhq> No.
18:32:37 <AnMaster> pikhq, it was during 3.4.x age I'm pretty sure
18:32:39 * AnMaster checks
18:33:34 <AnMaster> doesn't seem to have any newlib in it
18:34:38 <AnMaster> only ./libstdc++-v3/config/os/newlib which just contains some header files: ctype_base.h ctype_inline.h ctype_noninline.h os_defines.h
18:35:49 <pikhq> Curses.
18:35:51 <Gregor> ../configure --prefix=whatever --target=whatever --with-newlib --disable-libssp --disable-nls --disable-shared --disable-threads --disable-libgomp
18:36:02 <AnMaster> Gregor, you want --build and --host too iirc
18:36:06 <Gregor> AnMaster: Not any more.
18:36:11 <AnMaster> Gregor, since when?
18:36:13 <Gregor> AnMaster: As of GCC 4.2 or so
18:36:13 <pikhq> No, GCC figures out the build and host now.
18:36:19 <AnMaster> Gregor, newfangled stuff ;P
18:36:26 <Gregor> Maybe 4.1? 4.0? ECGS? Idonno.
18:36:39 <Gregor> (*EGCS :P )
18:36:48 <AnMaster> Gregor, also --disable-threads broke stuff for me I remember
18:36:54 <AnMaster> forgot details
18:37:16 <Gregor> The above flags is the way to get a cross-compiler with no libc installed as of the last time I did that (which was a week ago)
18:37:34 <Gregor> Oh yeah, but it was with an old GCC because the latest GCC doesn't support SVR4 any more >_>
18:37:42 <AnMaster> Gregor, right. my experience with cross compiling is limited to gcc 3.x as I said
18:38:01 <Gregor> Lesse what my JSMIPS flags are ...
18:38:07 <AnMaster> and outdated binutils. Damn them for dropping support for h8300-coff
18:38:26 <Gregor> Same
18:38:51 <AnMaster> Gregor, binutils-2.16.1 gcc-3.4.6
18:38:57 <AnMaster> plus some patches
18:39:07 <AnMaster> to make it not ICE
18:41:26 <AnMaster> Gregor, what about --enable-target-optspace ?
18:41:41 <AnMaster> mostly for embedded I guess
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18:42:59 <Gregor> AnMaster: Not sure what that does ...
18:44:12 <AnMaster> Gregor, make libgcc and other libraries for the target such use -oS
18:44:18 <AnMaster> err
18:44:20 <AnMaster> -Os
18:44:27 <Gregor> Well ... that's strictly optional then :P
18:45:03 <AnMaster> Gregor, not for the thing I was cross compiling to. Without that my stuff wouldn't have fit into the memory of it :P
18:53:01 <alise> ...you know those tiny tiny ultra-cheap rc helicopter things?
18:53:05 <alise> Really tiny plastic things and awkward controls.
18:53:37 <alise> "What happens when you strap a $2k digital SLR camera doing full HD video to a $2k remote-controlled helicopter?" --reddit
18:53:37 <alise> What happens when you strap a meh digital camera doing regular resolution video to a tiny cheap RC helicopter?
18:53:48 <alise> Would it even fly? It's normally so light and cameras tend to be quite heavy.
18:53:51 <alise> Maybe that flip HD thing.
18:54:32 <Gregor> Naw, those tiny cheap RC helicopters are exactly sufficient for lifting themselves.
18:54:43 <Gregor> I think the tipping point where they would no longer fly is at about four grams.
18:54:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:55:14 -!- augur has joined.
18:57:13 <alise> Gregor: How tiny can you get a video recorder, then?
18:57:16 <alise> And light, of course.
18:57:23 <alise> They're also impossible to fly, btw.
18:57:26 <alise> Even keeping them upright.
18:57:34 <AnMaster> alise, $2k DSLR?
18:57:35 <AnMaster> wtf
18:57:47 <alise> It said SLR, not DSLR.
18:57:55 <alise> Oh, wait, digital.
18:57:58 <AnMaster> digital SLR
18:57:59 <AnMaster> yeah
18:58:00 <alise> Okay, I know nothing of photography. :)
18:58:01 <alise> AnMaster: Why wtf?
18:58:04 <alise> Too cheap, too expensive?
18:58:30 <alise> There were lots of Red Bull signs in the video so it's presumably for an advert which would explain too-expensive.
18:58:31 <AnMaster> hm, sounds quite expensive
18:58:40 <alise> AnMaster: Well, it was a quite professionally done thing.
18:58:47 <AnMaster> alise, could explain it
18:58:51 <alise> http://vimeo.com/12281806 (you need flash, deal with it or miss the awesomeness)
19:05:58 <Gregor> Making nomath.js not retarded = huge speed improvement for JSMIPS! Hooray!
19:08:24 <Gregor> nomath.js is the single worst-named file in existence! Hooray!
19:08:39 <augur> alise, hey
19:08:55 <augur> i remember sending a link for you when you logread
19:08:57 <augur> a comic, i think
19:09:00 <augur> did you get it?
19:09:05 <AnMaster> Gregor, what does it do?
19:09:06 <alise> augur: I already read Pictures for Sad Children.
19:09:12 <augur> :D
19:09:14 <alise> But thanks for recognising the taste match. :P
19:09:23 <augur> so my alisology is accurate
19:09:40 <alise> Wow, what has happened with the most recent comics.
19:09:55 <alise> http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/index.php?comicID=346
19:09:56 <alise> http://www.picturesforsadchildren.com/index.php?comicID=347
19:10:06 <AnMaster> Gregor, also is the new version up at your website? Oh another thing. Last I tried JSMIPS (about a week ago) "ls bin" took ages because it loaded every file in there. I think your stat() system call needs work
19:10:41 <alise> Or DOES it
19:10:49 <augur> lol
19:10:51 <augur> alise :)
19:10:56 <alise> AnMaster: It runs vim? Wow.
19:10:58 <alise> Erm.
19:10:59 <alise> Gregor.
19:11:06 <alise> Gregor: Now do "X11 on Canvas".
19:11:27 <alise> I see you're using canvas already.
19:11:32 <alise> So you can easily plot pixels.
19:11:49 <alise> Gregor: Use Xserver (formerly KDrive) and it'll be a lot lighter and more workable.
19:12:00 <alise> You'd just have to write a simple driver that spits out canvasy commands.
19:12:46 <AnMaster> XD
19:12:54 <AnMaster> alise, will be even slower
19:15:10 <alise> But AWESOME.
19:23:41 * Gregor reappears.
19:24:09 <Gregor> AnMaster: stat() is straight-up broken. I'm aware and I just don't care.
19:24:29 <Gregor> alise: X11 on Canvas might be faster than this vt100 terminal for JS, which is dog-slow :P
19:25:32 <alise> Gregor: Probably, especially if you use Xserver which performs well on small systems and you compile in the driver so it'll load quicker.
19:25:55 <alise> Gregor: Stick in some ultra-minimalist WM like dwm or ratpoison and you're done.
19:26:09 <alise> Next steps: lynx, irssi. :-)
19:26:49 <Gregor> Anyway, I'm still working on making the way that it USES nomath.js be less retarded.
19:27:07 <Gregor> Oh, and AnMaster: No, the version on codu.org/jsmips is actually wildly out of date.
19:27:20 <alise> Ah.
19:28:03 <alise> Gregor: Would it be possible to run MIPS Linux on it? :P
19:28:17 <Gregor> alise: It's not a full-system simulator, it's just a ISA simulator.
19:28:22 <alise> Mm.
19:28:33 <alise> But what more do you really need, apart from keyboard/mouse ports?
19:30:30 <AnMaster> Gregor, update it soon :)
19:30:36 <Gregor> alise: I have no idea ;P
19:31:04 <AnMaster> Gregor, so what does nomath do?
19:31:19 <AnMaster> alise, MMU I presume
19:31:20 <alise> It doesn't do math.
19:31:25 <alise> Who needs an MMU.
19:31:27 <alise> Use uClinux.
19:31:28 <AnMaster> alise, linux
19:31:36 <AnMaster> that works yeah
19:31:41 <Gregor> nomath is the worst-named file ever.
19:31:48 <Gregor> nomath is Non-Overflowing MATH
19:31:52 <AnMaster> :D
19:31:54 <Gregor> Except that it actually implements overflowing math.
19:31:59 <Gregor> So it's doubly-badly-named.
19:32:00 <AnMaster> alise, you still need to emulate stuff like control registers for the kernel to fiddle with.
19:32:13 <AnMaster> alise, while with user space only you can just handwave that away
19:33:10 <alise> http://www.icanhasinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/popicon9.jpg
19:34:04 <Gregor> Yup, 'struth.
19:34:07 <Gregor> I have no buses :P
19:34:14 <alise> Double-decker buses.
19:34:27 <AnMaster> Gregor, what about taxis?
19:34:59 <Gregor> You're all terrible human beings.
19:35:04 <AnMaster> <alise> http://www.icanhasinternets.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/popicon9.jpg <-- that line very much lacks context... Please add some
19:35:15 <alise> AnMaster: Look closer.
19:35:26 <alise> The ground may help.
19:35:31 <alise> To the left. Beside the tree.
19:35:36 <AnMaster> hah
19:35:47 <AnMaster> alise, what about the bird though?
19:35:59 <alise> I think that is just a bird; not sure though.
19:36:28 <AnMaster> alise, doing Yoshi as a horse is strange.
19:36:39 <alise> It's the wild west, man.
19:36:49 <AnMaster> alise, yes but it looks so strange
19:38:09 <AnMaster> what, I don't get iwc today at all..
19:46:04 <Deewiant> Serron's point is that since Paris was the sole survivor, she should be the only one /not/ having a panic attack
19:46:45 <Deewiant> Since, if things go the way they did then, she'll be the one surviving again, whereas the others will die.
19:46:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh
19:47:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why is "she's" italics and wtf about the annotation then
19:47:30 <AnMaster> hm
19:47:32 <Deewiant> "She's" is emphasized.
19:47:35 <AnMaster> maybe it has been mentioned before
19:47:49 <Deewiant> As in, "why is /she/ the one who's having a panic attack"
19:48:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right I was considering if it was something about forgetting gender of Paris at first.
19:48:22 <AnMaster> which is why I got all confused about it
19:48:28 <AnMaster> since that made no sense
19:48:52 <Deewiant> It's about her crashing that ship in her youth
19:48:55 <AnMaster> true
19:49:06 <AnMaster> hm maybe it *has* been mentioned before
19:49:25 <Deewiant> The annotation suggests not
19:49:56 <Deewiant> Typically there'd be a link to the previous mention in cases like this
19:50:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed.
19:50:11 <AnMaster> if there had been it would have been all clear
19:50:25 <alise> 4+7+4
19:50:28 <alise> 4+9+4
19:50:33 <alise> 3+4+4
19:50:38 <alise> 1+9+4
19:50:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I didn't remember you read iwc regularly
19:50:42 <alise> 1+7+9
19:50:45 <alise> What is the next entry in the sequence?
19:51:09 <AnMaster> alise, 2. It overflowed on this strange architecture ;)
19:51:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Maybe you didn't know.
19:51:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, possibly
19:52:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/draakslair/viewtopic.php?t=4941&sid=896a484b493d46f242a222f29dd12ec6 suggests it is a combination of that you mentioned and that I considered
19:52:11 <alise> Wolfram Alpha thinks a possible closed form of 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4, ... is
19:52:16 <alise> a_n = 1/6 ((-1)^n-2 (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^n-2 i sqrt(3) (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^n-2 (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^n+2 i sqrt(3) (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^n+15)
19:52:28 <AnMaster> alise, rather verbose
19:52:34 <alise> It predicts the next entry in the sequence is
19:52:35 <alise> 1/6 (14-2 (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)-2 i sqrt(3) (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)-2 (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)+2 i sqrt(3) (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)),1/6 (16-2 (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^2-2 i sqrt(3) (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^2-2 (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^2+2 i sqrt(3) (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^2),1/6 (14-2 (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^3-2 i sqrt(3) (1/2-(i sqrt(3))/2)^3-2 (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^3+2 i sqrt(3) (1/2+(i sqrt(3))/2)^3)
19:52:43 <AnMaster> alise, is it correct?
19:52:49 <alise> No, the next entry is 3.
19:52:51 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I remembered that she was a she so I didn't even consider it :-P
19:53:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed I remembered that too
19:53:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and was all confused by the italics thus
19:53:38 <alise> Wait, she doesn't look like a she.
19:53:46 <alise> AnMaster: *she* as in *her personality*
19:55:06 <AnMaster> ?
19:55:10 <AnMaster> ffs
19:56:09 <alise> ?
20:05:49 <alise> AnMaster: i'll never see a line from an irc server longer than 512 chars, right?
20:05:54 <alise> or is that just privmsg body
20:06:32 <Deewiant> Isn't the limit 254 or something?
20:08:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sounds like topic limit or such
20:08:15 <AnMaster> not sure
20:08:27 <alise> Deewiant: it's definitely 500-odd
20:08:32 <AnMaster> alise, well you could see. but you shouldn't. But in practise I seen it
20:08:48 <alise> Well, fuck practice, Freenode uber alles :P
20:09:00 <AnMaster> alise, I wouldn't crash on it though
20:09:14 <alise> I'll just end up interpreting it as two lines, one of them meaningless, I think
20:09:17 <alise> But who really cares?
20:09:18 <Deewiant> IRC messages are always lines of characters terminated with a CR-LF (Carriage Return - Line Feed) pair, and these messages shall not exceed 512 characters in length, counting all characters including the trailing CR-LF. Thus, there are 510 characters maximum allowed for the command and its parameters.
20:09:20 <AnMaster> it is just something you don't do. You don't crash on malformed input
20:09:23 <Deewiant> -- RFC 1459
20:09:31 <alise> AnMaster: You do if you're a lazy fucker.
20:09:50 <AnMaster> alise, I guess I'm not.
20:10:36 <AnMaster> alise, besides it might be tricky to pick stuff up on some systems if you crash on bad input. Like you need JTAG to fix it or such
20:11:05 <alise> Freenode doesn't do it, and that's all I really care about.
20:11:55 <Gregor> "If you steal a golden idol from your parents' house after coveting your neighbor's wife on the sabbath ... well, you're just plain screwed.
20:12:16 <alise> #define OR_DIE ; if (errno) { perror("Error"); exit(1); }
20:13:04 <Deewiant> Maybe throw some __FILE__, __LINE__ in there
20:13:15 <AnMaster> Gregor, wut
20:13:17 <alise> Deewiant: Pfft! Ideally I'd get the function name but that's impossible.
20:13:26 <alise> AnMaster: it's this religion. called christianity
20:13:30 <alise> you may have heard of it
20:13:31 <Deewiant> Doesn't GCC support __FUNCTION__?
20:13:58 <AnMaster> alise, I don't know it's contradictory holy book word by word...
20:14:12 <AnMaster> also it seems strange to special case combining those
20:14:21 <AnMaster> seems like a parody :P
20:14:22 <alise> Can fopen handle ~ expansion? iirc it can't.
20:14:55 <AnMaster> alise, but the shell would do that for you
20:15:01 <AnMaster> at least for command line
20:15:09 <alise> Heh, my config file enforces a rigid order.
20:15:12 <alise> Oh Well Who Cares.
20:16:01 <alise> You know what? I should just use a scripting language.
20:16:02 <alise> C sucks.
20:16:10 <AnMaster> alise, anyway using getline() or fgets() isn't a lot more complicated than gets(). Or a lazy non-gnu way would be fgets() with 513 char buffer (512 + ending \0) and then instead of growing buffer or just just exiting with error
20:16:17 <AnMaster> if the line is longer
20:16:18 <alise> I was using fgets.
20:16:22 <alise> With a fixed buffer.
20:16:25 <AnMaster> alise, that's fine then
20:16:36 <alise> And breaking whenever the server breaks the RFC :P
20:16:45 <AnMaster> alise, I have nothing against that
20:16:53 <AnMaster> alise, it is *crashing* that I'm specifically against
20:17:11 <Deewiant> Use a 511 char buffer and ignore the last \r\n
20:17:13 <alise> It wouldn't crash, it'd just probably print some things to the log along the lines of "WTF kind of command is 'and this is more words of the too-long line'?".
20:17:16 <AnMaster> alise, it's the difference between exploding or shutting down basically
20:18:38 <alise> It seems botte's structure is becoming *very* UNIXy.
20:18:51 <alise> Inside ~ (which is not necessarily anyone's home directory in botte, we just set HOME to make things easier), we have:
20:18:57 <alise> ~/bin/command_name
20:18:59 <alise> ~/etc/botte.conf
20:19:03 <alise> ~/sys/botte.[whateverlangitis]
20:19:14 <alise> And also things like ~/var/quotes, ~/var/karma.
20:19:19 <alise> ~/etc/extremely_complex_plugin.conf.
20:19:39 <alise> I'm not sure where the "run these all the time so they can scan for things like foo++ or foo-- in any message" stuff will go.
20:19:41 <alise> Maybe ~/daemons.
20:20:03 <AnMaster> alise, sbin?
20:20:09 <AnMaster> for Services Binaries
20:20:09 <alise> No. That's ludicrous.
20:20:23 <AnMaster> (instead of superuser binaries)
20:20:28 <alise> I'm allowed ~/sys because dammit, Linux took it away from Plan 9 which used it for system source.
20:20:50 <AnMaster> "took it away"?
20:20:57 <alise> By using it for the kernel stuff.
20:20:58 <AnMaster> alise, why wouldn't both be allowed to use it
20:21:09 <alise> Well, most people would say "hey, that's not what /sys means".
20:21:13 <AnMaster> for different things even
20:21:17 <Cu> rather than use syslogd, everything should just write to /sys/log
20:21:21 <alise> AnMaster: Well, I think late Unix did it too.
20:21:25 <AnMaster> alise, ...
20:21:38 <alise> Richard 'Goat-Raper' Stallman.
20:21:38 * AnMaster renames /home on alise's computer to "Documents And Settings"
20:22:15 <alise> Eric 'Sexy' Steven 'You Can Call Me Eric "Sexy" Steven "Saucy" Raymond, Linus' Raymond
20:22:20 <AnMaster> alise, anyway no one claimed linux was plan9, it seems perfectly fine to use the same directory name for different things on different unrelated systems!
20:22:21 <alise> s/$/./
20:22:30 <alise> AnMaster: but dammit late unix did it too
20:22:37 <AnMaster> alise, and?
20:22:37 <alise> :||
20:22:45 <alise> Wow, you're actually taking me seriously.
20:22:47 <AnMaster> what?
20:22:47 <alise> How stupid are you?
20:23:08 <AnMaster> alise, not stupid, but this was exactly the same tone as you use when you rant about stuff like file systems
20:23:15 <AnMaster> are you suggesting you weren't serious then?
20:23:17 <AnMaster> or about fonts
20:23:20 <alise> What ain't no country I ever heard of. They speak English in what?
20:23:39 <alise> (Please, please, please say "what?".)
20:23:46 <AnMaster> no
20:23:54 <alise> (Oh well.)
20:24:06 <AnMaster> alise, det beror på
20:24:25 <alise> Then you know what I'm saying!
20:24:27 <alise> Describe what Linus Torvalds looks like!
20:24:27 <AnMaster> but I agree the English are motherfuckers ;P
20:24:58 <alise> Say the again. SAY THE AGAIN. I dare you, I double dare you, motherfucker. Say the one more goddamn time.
20:24:59 <AnMaster> alise, I only seen an image on wikipedia. Somewhat fat. Light/blond hair iirc
20:25:02 <AnMaster> that is about all
20:25:03 <alise> (I'm having to improvise here...)
20:25:06 <AnMaster> don't remember more
20:25:11 <alise> AnMaster: Does he look like a bitch?
20:25:26 <AnMaster> alise, no he doesn't look like a female dog.
20:25:37 <alise> Dammit, you were meant to say "the" at least once in that sentence.
20:25:56 <AnMaster> haha
20:26:10 <alise> I think I'll just stop quoting Pulp Fiction.
20:26:20 <AnMaster> alise, oh I thought you had gone mad
20:26:31 <AnMaster> more mad than usual I mean
20:26:36 <alise> No, it's this quote: http://pastie.org/1020189.txt?key=es9lvqgblsbkroywcnvs1q
20:27:31 <AnMaster> alise, Someone trolling another person.
20:27:40 <AnMaster> is what it looks like to me
20:27:42 <alise> No... it's from a film.
20:27:57 <AnMaster> oh
20:27:58 <AnMaster> hm
20:28:15 <AnMaster> alise, okay I guess you have to know about that movie for it to make sense
20:28:39 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> alise, det beror på
20:28:39 <AnMaster> <alise> Then you know what I'm saying!
20:28:44 <Deewiant> Not really
20:28:44 <AnMaster> also that didn't work ;P
20:28:53 <AnMaster> alise, translation of my line: "That depends."
20:28:56 <alise> AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czb4jn5y94g
20:28:59 <Gregor> Now updating my binutils/GCC patches to work on the latest versions ...
20:28:59 <alise> the scene
20:30:53 <alise> Gregor: Will you ... what was I going to say ... the of the and it & of
20:30:57 <alise> Will you update the system.html thing?
20:31:24 <Gregor> I will maybe later today probably.
20:31:38 <Gregor> But I need to build the latest version of everything first :P
20:31:42 <AnMaster> alise, makes no senee
20:31:43 <AnMaster> sense*
20:32:02 <alise> AnMaster: What, exactly, makes no sense?
20:32:07 <AnMaster> alise, video
20:32:15 <alise> Which part, exactly, makes no sens?
20:36:05 -!- Rafajafar has joined.
20:36:08 <Rafajafar> sup ladies
20:38:32 <alise> uh.
20:38:35 <AnMaster> alise, is it "a historic" or "an historic"
20:38:37 <alise> very low lady content in here
20:38:40 <alise> nil to be precise
20:38:47 <alise> AnMaster: Depends on your dialect.
20:38:50 <alise> I'd write "a historic".
20:38:58 <alise> If you pronounce the 'h', it's "a". If not, it's "an".
20:39:04 <AnMaster> alise, which dialects use "an" there?
20:39:10 <alise> If it sounds like "an istoric" when you pronounce "an historic", write that.
20:39:12 <AnMaster> just some example
20:39:16 <alise> Otherwise, write "a historic".
20:39:21 <alise> AnMaster: I'm not sure.
20:39:28 <alise> I think Received Pronunciation definitely says "a historic".
20:40:02 <AnMaster> hm
20:40:13 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonological_history_of_English_fricatives_and_affricates#H-dropping
20:40:36 <Cu> the worst are the people who say "an" and pronounce the h
20:40:37 <alise> AnMaster: "A historic" is certainly much more common.
20:40:46 <alise> And "an historic" sounds AWFUL to people who don't mentally pronounce the 'h'.
20:40:50 <alise> Like, truly awful. "An hero" level.
20:41:02 <Cu> h is a consonant sound, dammi
20:41:12 <Deewiant> alise: s/don't/do/ surely?
20:41:18 <alise> Er, yes.
20:41:19 <alise> AnMaster: OTOH, it is almost universally "an honour killing".
20:41:29 <alise> Which disproves Cu's saying, unless he says "HHHHonour killing".
20:41:35 <alise> Hoxford.
20:41:36 <AnMaster> alise, and "an hour"
20:41:41 <alise> AnMaster: Indeed.
20:41:45 <Deewiant> Words borrowed from French frequently begin with the letter h but not with the sound /h/. Examples include hour, heir, hono(u)r and honest.
20:41:47 <alise> An' our time has surely come!
20:41:54 <alise> Wow, that was a double pun.
20:42:01 <Deewiant> In some cases, spelling pronunciation has introduced the sound /h/ into such words, as in humble, hotel and (for most speakers) historic.
20:42:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, excepts in american english?
20:42:13 <Cu> that's because h has no sound in French
20:42:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ?
20:42:19 <AnMaster> except*
20:42:23 <alise> Deewiant: but the French are dirty and unwashed
20:42:25 <alise> so who cares
20:42:29 <Cu> if the h is silent, an is fine
20:42:41 <AnMaster> alise, their food usually taste better than English food though
20:42:46 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Just read the section I linked...
20:42:52 <alise> AnMaster: Nobody in England likes English food.
20:42:57 <alise> We have a bunch of faux-ethnic dishes instead.
20:43:06 <AnMaster> alise, well actually scones is quite nice?
20:43:08 <alise> For instance, we pretty much invented "'chinese' food".
20:43:11 <AnMaster> or maybe that is faux too?
20:43:14 <alise> AnMaster: We're good at bakey stuff.
20:43:21 <alise> Scones, English muffins, crumpets, and so on.
20:43:21 <AnMaster> alise, except cakes.
20:43:23 <alise> Actual meals we suck at.
20:43:28 <alise> AnMaster: Eh?
20:43:31 <alise> What's wrong with cakes?
20:43:41 <AnMaster> alise, your ones are often dry in my experience
20:43:44 <alise> I'll have you know I'm a wonderful cake maker.
20:43:47 <alise> AnMaster: Oh. Only bad ones.
20:43:53 <AnMaster> XD
20:43:56 <alise> I always make them rich and moist I'll have you know :|
20:44:04 <alise> Insert bland innuendo...
20:44:18 <AnMaster> alise, of course, I can only speak from the experience I have. And that has been English cakes = dry
20:44:38 <alise> I'd mail a piece of cake, except you don't deserve cake.
20:44:41 <AnMaster> but of course that is not a large enough study to cover every case
20:44:53 <AnMaster> alise, it would be dry and mashed by the time it arrived
20:45:02 <AnMaster> at least knowing Swedish postal service
20:45:12 <alise> Eh, just put it in a blender and DRINK THE CAKE!
20:46:41 <AnMaster> alise, but does it blend!?
20:46:55 -!- tombom has joined.
20:47:00 <AnMaster> hm I wonder if that site is still around
20:47:43 <alise> Yes.
20:47:50 <alise> It's a hugely popular promotional site. Those don't disappear.
20:48:05 <alise> I love how Agora's ruleset is maintained in RCS.
20:48:08 <AnMaster> alise, did they ever find stuff that didn't blend?
20:48:16 <alise> Well, since 2001, anyway.
20:48:32 <alise> AnMaster: Nope.
20:49:30 <AnMaster> alise, I guess if they did they wouldn't publish it
20:49:48 <AnMaster> alise, I would suggest trying a crowbar or such
20:49:53 <AnMaster> I bet that won't blend
20:52:24 <alise> I want to write Agora an anthem.
20:52:29 <AnMaster> XD
20:55:13 <AnMaster> alise, (1,99] <-- is this interval half-closed or half-open?
20:56:19 <alise> AnMaster: Both.
20:56:28 <alise> closed = 1-open, open = 1-closed.
20:56:31 <alise> 1-0.5 = 0.5.
20:56:56 <AnMaster> hm strange I get weird ping reply times from you alise. -1277582170.2 seconds...
20:57:05 <AnMaster> that is *almost* epoch (just checked)
20:57:34 <AnMaster> except the wrong way
21:00:50 <alise> Just XChat...
21:03:49 <AnMaster> hm
21:03:59 <AnMaster> okay strange, now it works
21:04:29 <AnMaster> > Ping reply from alise: 0.82 seconds
21:10:07 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:12:11 <alise> Hi ais523!
21:12:15 <alise> I reregistered in Agora.
21:12:22 <ais523> hi alise
21:12:34 <alise> at least, I'm pretty sure I did now
21:12:40 <alise> not that i needed to
21:12:44 <alise> I'm not sure the lists are listening to me, though
21:12:47 <ais523> and no you didn't, unless you did it only a few seconds ago and the message hasn't arrived yet
21:12:54 <alise> ugh, it didn't actually set my email back
21:14:23 <alise> ais523: there
21:14:35 * ais523 waits for the email to arrive
21:14:51 <ais523> ah, three came at once
21:14:56 <wareya> Hello netout.
21:15:10 <alise> ais523: yes, I just resent them for the second time
21:15:13 <alise> heh, resent
21:15:37 <ais523> you might also want "I become active"
21:15:51 <alise> I'm still cracking up at "making an ass out of you and umption", I'm so annoying :P
21:16:10 <alise> can you call CFJs while inactive?
21:16:56 <alise> if not I'll have to recall it
21:17:05 <ais523> yes, you can
21:17:11 <ais523> you can even call CFJs while not a player
21:17:21 <ais523> Wooble does so frequently when eir registration status is in doubt
21:18:41 <AnMaster> ais523, how could your registration status be in doubt?
21:18:58 <ais523> AnMaster: you might have deliberately tried to make it ambiguous
21:20:12 <alise> AnMaster: perhaps you've been exiled but think there's a bug in the exile rules, for instance
21:20:58 <ais523> most recently the problem was that the Registrar wasn't paying attention to the lists
21:25:02 <AnMaster> ais523, heh
21:25:10 <AnMaster> alise, hm
21:25:56 <AnMaster> I wonder where you buy desiccant silca btw
21:26:36 <alise> http://www.macropackaging.co.uk/1gramsilicagelsachetspouchesdesiccantnew-p-196.html
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21:28:17 <AnMaster> alise, I have sole silca here in an ESD plastic bag with small holes. From some harddrive packaging
21:28:45 <AnMaster> that sort of package for it might be tricky to find. Anyway I would be more interested in silca in bulk, not pre-packaged
21:28:49 <AnMaster> for what I was considering
21:29:00 * AnMaster goes googling
21:31:02 <ais523> why do you want bulk dessicant silica?
21:31:17 <ais523> this isn't some sort of insane esolang, is it?
21:31:19 <fizzie> Every time the cat tries to eat something it shouldn't, we tend to say "SILICA GEL - DO NOT EAT" to it. It doesn't help much.
21:34:38 <AnMaster> ais523, no. but that is a nice idea
21:34:48 <AnMaster> ais523, computing by absorbing water
21:34:52 <AnMaster> hm
21:35:42 <AnMaster> ais523, you could make a very balanced scale such that it tipped over when you had absorbed enough water
21:35:52 <AnMaster> thus closing an electrical circuit
21:36:04 <AnMaster> ais523, think that would work?
21:36:29 <ais523> maybe
21:36:32 <ais523> but it seems rather irreversible
21:36:37 <ais523> you'd need some way to drain the silica too
21:36:43 <AnMaster> ais523, you can restore it by heating it quite a bit iirc
21:37:00 <AnMaster> ais523, ah 120 C
21:37:08 <AnMaster> for 2 hours
21:37:17 <AnMaster> VERY slow computing
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22:17:14 <alise> Back in ~20 mins.
22:19:09 <ais523> serious question I need for my day job: does anyone here know a remotely efficient algorithm for topologicals sort that works even if there are cycles in the input?
22:19:20 <ais523> as in, infers a total preorder from a partial preorder, rather than a total order from a partial order
22:19:27 <ais523> *topological sort
22:22:07 <Ilari> ais523: As in, cycles can be sorted any way, but rest must follow topological order?
22:22:13 <AnMaster> night
22:22:23 <ais523> Ilari: no, as in cycles are marked as equal to each other
22:22:40 <ais523> so if the input's a<b, b<c, c<b, b<d, the output's a<b=c<d
22:25:10 <Ilari> Find the strongly connected components replace them all with single vertex and run topological sort for result?
22:25:33 <ais523> yep, that's basically what I'm trying to do
22:28:32 <ais523> but it's unclear how to even find those components in the input in an efficient way
22:34:26 <cheater99> i am eating jam with a teaspoon
22:34:32 <cheater99> does that make me a fat fuck
22:39:11 <alise> yes
22:41:58 <Gregor> Keeping GCC patches up to date is SUCH a PITA
22:45:00 <cheater99> why would you even be patching gcc
22:45:09 <Gregor> To support a new target.
22:52:50 <Sgeo> Ugh, I'm going to need to learn Javascript string manipulation in the span of a few minutes
22:55:34 <ais523> try finding a library listing
22:55:47 <ais523> it works much the same as, say, Perl or Python, strings are first-class
22:59:29 <CakeProphet> generally it's best to stick to library functions and avoid explicit loops as well. Since the library functions are going to be C or whatever else.
23:00:48 <Sgeo> I barely know enough Javascript to look at form elements on a page
23:01:17 <Sgeo> .value to get a text field's value?
23:01:25 <CakeProphet> it's been a while. I think so.
23:01:36 <CakeProphet> just play around with a shell in your browser.
23:04:08 <CakeProphet> I believe iterating over an object iterates over its properties
23:04:08 <CakeProphet> but
23:04:12 <CakeProphet> don't quote me on that.
23:04:20 <ais523> Sgeo: yes
23:04:30 <ais523> that's not JavaScript, that's DHTML DOM
23:04:35 <ais523> for the text field's value thing
23:04:44 <ais523> the issue is that you can't really use one without the otehr
23:04:51 <CakeProphet> right.
23:05:06 <Sgeo> No one will care if I design this page poorly, right?
23:05:19 <CakeProphet> I will be scarred.
23:06:19 <Sgeo> Is there a trinary operator in JS?
23:07:27 <alise> ? :
23:07:47 <alise> <ais523> the issue is that you can't really use one without the otehr
23:07:49 <alise> there's work on that but eh
23:10:02 <Sgeo> Ok, this page is already going to be fragile :/
23:10:56 <Sgeo> "Can you make it an exe?"
23:15:27 <Sgeo> Hm, a bit of decency is required for my sanity. Too much work if I don't make another function
23:18:06 <Sgeo> Maybe the denizens of this channel won't gang up and kill me now
23:19:54 <CakeProphet> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caja_project
23:23:46 <alise> CakeProphet: and?
23:24:33 <alise> "The FBI failed to break the encryption code of hard drives seized by federal police at the apartment of banker Daniel Dantas, in Rio de Janeiro, during Operation Satyagraha."
23:24:41 <alise> Gosh, TrueCrypt isn't breakable by the FBI for an investigation.
23:24:43 <alise> That's astonishing!
23:24:50 <alise> The FBI are magicians who can break any encryption.
23:25:10 <alise> Also, they'd reveal it if they could break it. Totally!
23:30:56 <Sgeo> http://www.kevlindev.com/tutorials/javascript/inheritance/index.htm good tutorial or bad tutorial?
23:32:44 <alise> Here is my Javascript inheritance tutorial:
23:32:50 <alise> There is no inheritance. Stop thinking about inheritance.
23:32:57 <alise> You can extend objects.
23:32:59 <alise> There is no inheritance.
23:33:17 <Sgeo> What about the pages explanation of new?
23:33:21 <Sgeo> page's
23:33:23 <Sgeo> Is that decent?
23:34:12 <Rafajafar> alise: that's kinda correct
23:34:18 <Rafajafar> there's no built-in inheritance
23:34:43 <Rafajafar> but you can extend javascript to have a kind of inheritance, like the Prototype framework did
23:35:53 <Rafajafar> and to clarify more... ECMAScript standards have inheritance now... but javascript hasn't changed much in 10-12 years, so it doesnt have the newer schema
23:36:06 <Rafajafar> ActionScript does, and it most definetely has inheritance
23:37:34 <alise> Rafajafar: *but* class-based javascript is basically sin.
23:37:44 <Rafajafar> alise: I dont believe in sin
23:37:44 <alise> prototype is pretty awful.
23:37:52 <alise> Rafajafar: you knew what i meant.
23:37:55 <Rafajafar> Prototype has one major flaw
23:38:00 <alise> one major flaw, it sucks
23:38:03 <Rafajafar> alise: you knew what I meant
23:38:06 <Sgeo> Rafajafar, so what do you call code that uses gotos for all flow control?
23:38:09 <Rafajafar> alise: stay constructive, dont be a twat
23:38:15 <alise> i'm a twat by nature
23:38:25 <alise> also not particularly trying to have a productive discussion :p
23:38:27 <Sgeo> Rafajafar, what's Prototype's "one major flaw"?
23:38:43 <Rafajafar> the fact that if you change an element, it removes it from the DOM and replaces it
23:38:57 <Rafajafar> meaning if you expect in-place editing, you wont get it
23:39:10 <Rafajafar> this has problems if you have to go outside their framework for registering event handlers
23:39:55 <Rafajafar> Sgeo: I call code that uses gotos for all flow control another way to do things.... assembly basically works that way, yanno.
23:40:18 <alise> What do you call BANCStar?
23:40:26 <alise> Using INTERCAL for vital business code?
23:40:51 <Sgeo> Javascript's automatic semicolon insertion?
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23:41:05 <alise> You have to be opinionated. Unopinionated people just let cruft and evil perpetuate with their over-tolerance.
23:41:22 * Cu is opinionated SIR!
23:41:25 -!- Cu has changed nick to coppro.
23:41:37 <Rafajafar> alise: no, I think you're confused
23:41:44 <Rafajafar> I have opinions
23:41:48 <alise> Or doooo you
23:41:54 <alise> I need to stop saying that.
23:41:56 <Sgeo> return\n{ is semantically different fro return {
23:41:57 <Rafajafar> I'll roll my eyes and go "that's not the way *I* would do it
23:42:11 <alise> Rafajafar: so basically you're passive-aggressive rather than aggressive
23:42:13 <alise> is that really better :P
23:42:24 <alise> Sgeo: as in python.
23:42:24 <Rafajafar> alise: I dont see that as being either of those things
23:43:12 <oerjan> alise: i counter that opinionated people sometimes perpetuate cruft and evil by narrow-mindedly ignoring possible compromises
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23:43:15 <Rafajafar> alise: there are no sins.... only mistakes.
23:43:32 <alise> oerjan: well opinionated != religiously opinionated
23:43:41 <Rafajafar> my issue with absolutes is that if you say it's ALWAYS wrong, as in a sin, you miss an opportunity when it's not wrong
23:43:43 <Sgeo> But with Python, newline is the default and well know statement terminator
23:43:43 <alise> opinionated != zealoutous, rather.
23:43:51 <alise> Sgeo: *known
23:44:02 <alise> Rafajafar: By chance are you a centrist?
23:44:21 <Rafajafar> no
23:44:26 <alise> Hm. Odd.
23:44:31 <Rafajafar> no, it's not
23:44:36 <Sgeo> The C++ FAQ has something about "evil", where "evil" does not mean "never do it"
23:44:48 <Rafajafar> My opinions are views are MINE
23:45:04 <Sgeo> iirc
23:45:29 <alise> <Rafajafar> My opinions are views are MINE <-- wut
23:45:44 <Rafajafar> and I feel very strongly about them, but in the same way I dont want a Mormon coming to my door tellnig me about Indian Jesus and beating me over the head with his free book of fables, I dont want to go around preaching my views to those who differ in a way that makes them seem ABSOLUTELY wrong
23:45:58 <Rafajafar> first are = and
23:45:59 <Rafajafar> sorry
23:46:13 * oerjan has a strong religious opinion against being opinionated. argh.
23:46:16 <Rafajafar> I tend to think three or four words ahead of what I'm currently typing
23:46:28 <oerjan> (not even really joking)
23:46:40 <Rafajafar> buddism?
23:47:23 -!- coppro has joined.
23:47:24 <oerjan> no, not really. something new age.
23:47:52 <Rafajafar> when you commit the sin of absolutism, you've ended all discussion (which is an absolutist statement that I abhor)
23:48:05 <alise> *buddhism
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23:48:21 <alise> also, you're getting dangerously ideological here for someone expressing an anti-ideological viewpoint.
23:48:29 <Rafajafar> *alease
23:48:39 <coppro> alise: Welcome back, o great Penguin :)
23:48:42 <alise> It's not "buddism".
23:48:46 <alise> coppro: ...Penguin?
23:48:55 <coppro> of the gods, of course
23:49:02 <alise> Oh, right; that.
23:49:14 <alise> I would prefer you called me the Penguin Formerly Known as Godot. :-)
23:49:20 <Rafajafar> I'm not preaching anti-ideologicalism because I am not telling you you're wrong... I just said there is no sin, and left it at that.
23:49:39 <Rafajafar> I stated MY opinion, which you are free to disagree with
23:49:40 <alise> Rafajafar: Indeed, but the discussion that came after...
23:49:54 <alise> I'm not arguing with you, you know.
23:49:59 <Rafajafar> you asked for more explaination, actually no, you made wild accusations about who I am and what I am
23:50:27 <Rafajafar> which prompted me to explain
23:50:29 <alise> I don't recall any "wild accusations", merely joking speculation.
23:50:30 <oerjan> <alise> also, you're getting dangerously ideological here for someone expressing an anti-ideological viewpoint. <-- i think that's an intrinsic psychological danger of debate/discussion
23:50:31 <alise> Chill.
23:50:51 <alise> oerjan: it also partly demonstrates why i think strong (ha!) anti-ideological...ism is a bad thing :)
23:50:59 <alise> i really do try not to be a zealot these days though
23:51:11 <oerjan> O_O
23:51:18 * oerjan must have missed that >:D
23:51:25 <Sgeo> Is it moral to use innerHTML?
23:51:29 <Sgeo> Even when there's no HTML?
23:51:30 * Rafajafar just pooped a little
23:51:33 <Sgeo> To display a result?
23:51:40 <coppro> Sgeo: it is always immoral
23:51:41 <coppro> use the DOM
23:51:53 <Sgeo> Ok, how do I display text in a DIV?
23:52:04 <oerjan> Rafajafar: now i'm starting to wonder how many people use irc from the toilet
23:52:13 <alise> Sgeo: ignore coppro
23:52:16 <alise> if it's just a quick hack use innerhtml
23:52:19 <Rafajafar> element.innerHTML
23:52:20 <alise> it's not like the dom is any cleaner :-D
23:52:32 <Rafajafar> if you dont know what's going to be in the div
23:52:35 <Sgeo> Well, making it easy to select all might be helpful any.. no it won't
23:52:37 <Rafajafar> I'd use innerHRML
23:52:38 <alise> -- but seriously, the DOM is a serious bitch, unless you're making this thing cleanly and pristinely just use innerHTML.
23:52:39 <Rafajafar> HTML
23:52:53 <Sgeo> Someone now needs to invent HRML
23:53:00 <alise> Human Relations Markup Language
23:53:00 <Rafajafar> you're using some sort of library?
23:53:09 <alise> Happy Racists Markup Language
23:53:13 <Sgeo> It's just plaintext, I could easily make it an input box
23:53:17 <alise> Hhhhhh Rrrrrrr Markup Language
23:53:20 <Rafajafar> Horny Rabbits Makeout Lapdance
23:53:30 <Sgeo> Whatever, it doesn't really matter
23:54:06 <Rafajafar> Sgeo: I really suggest you use a framework for javascript... the raw language is rather lacking... especially if you're trying to deal with cross browser compatability
23:54:15 <alise> yeah it'll be easier just to use jquery
23:54:18 <Rafajafar> yeah
23:54:20 <alise> for the kind of thing you are most likely doing
23:54:25 <Rafajafar> jquery, prototype, dojo...etc
23:54:27 <Rafajafar> mootools
23:54:29 <Rafajafar> something
23:54:39 <alise> jQuery. :P
23:54:40 <Sgeo> alise, simple math and string manipulation?
23:54:48 <alise> Sgeo: and, clearly, DOM work, based on your questions.
23:54:58 <alise> jQuery is just like a few k anyway and it doesn't replace your ordinary javascript
23:55:07 <alise> it just lets you do things like $("p.foo").addClass("bar").hide();
23:55:09 <Sgeo> alise, read what I said: I just want to display plaintext
23:55:17 <Rafajafar> I've used them all, I can say that if I'm doing any UI work, jQuery is still in its infancy stage whereas Dojo is totally off the charts awesome
23:55:27 <Sgeo> UIs scare me
23:55:28 <alise> Rafajafar: Yeah, but JavaScript UI work is ... sin.
23:55:38 <Rafajafar> buh?
23:55:40 <Rafajafar> disagree
23:55:44 <alise> Fuck Web 3.0 and its crappy imitations of desktop apps :P
23:55:55 <Rafajafar> raitme.com
23:55:58 <alise> gmail, good use of web stuff. things like roundcube, awful useless crap.
23:56:03 <Rafajafar> working on this site (dont hack it yet)
23:56:03 <alise> (and zimba)
23:56:17 <Rafajafar> this uses jQueryUI as an experiment
23:56:21 <Rafajafar> I might keep it
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23:56:33 <Rafajafar> but, it's not bad... loads only the info it needs
23:56:38 <alise_> Rafajafar: ok, so this is like reddit except it freezes my browser when i load it.
23:56:43 <alise_> i can see the appeal
23:56:47 <Rafajafar> what browser?
23:56:56 <Rafajafar> oh you're...linux firefox?
23:56:59 <Rafajafar> w/o flash?
23:57:05 <alise_> with flash
23:57:09 <Sgeo> Please don't depend on flash kthx
23:57:16 <alise_> firefox 3.6, arch linux, quite low-spec machine but unless you're using hundreds of megs of ram and filling up the two cores there's no excuse to be so slow :P
23:57:31 <alise_> (1 gig ram total... but i have plenty free)
23:57:35 <Sgeo> One game I like uses Flash only to play sounds, and that causes it to freeze at some points
23:57:35 <Rafajafar> Sgeo: um it has music players in it, until HTML5 is worth a damn six years from now.... Flash is the only option
23:57:46 <alise_> HTML5 ... works
23:57:49 <Rafajafar> alise: no one else has that problem
23:57:51 <alise_> <audio> works fine in ... everything but IE.
23:57:59 <Rafajafar> HTML5 is shit, it's not supported in IE
23:58:03 <alise_> <video> a bit lesso.
23:58:07 <alise_> yeah, IE.
23:58:11 <alise_> hey, that's a strong opinion
23:58:16 <alise_> "worth a damn", "is shit".
23:58:17 <Sgeo> Rafajafar, ok, but if the flash isn't working, make the worst effect be lack of sound
23:58:18 <Rafajafar> no the specs are great
23:58:18 <Sgeo> Please
23:58:23 <alise_> whatever happened to -- "that's not how i would do it"
23:58:30 <Rafajafar> Sgeo: that's what happens
23:58:34 <Sgeo> Ok, good
23:58:57 <Rafajafar> you wanna build an HTML5 app and alienate most people, that's your right
23:59:02 <Rafajafar> HTML5 is shit, I wouldn't do it
23:59:05 <Rafajafar> not yet
23:59:07 <alise_> fucking hell we're in #esoteric
23:59:09 <alise_> this is alienation central
23:59:09 <Rafajafar> one day
23:59:13 <alise_> do you actually do any esolang stuff
23:59:20 <Rafajafar> no I just like the convos in here
23:59:29 <alise_> i see.
23:59:30 <Sgeo> Rafajafar, help me with PSOX!
23:59:35 <alise_> maybe we should talk more about esolangs then
23:59:37 <Sgeo> Then you'll be an esolang person!
23:59:57 <Sgeo> Hahahaha "topic in #esoteric"
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