< 1277942925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1277944224 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... From wisdom of crowds stuff: Task 1k random people to develop new nutrional guidelines and then do study of what those do to health. Wheither one would or would not want to see that depends on relative priorities of caring for others vs. how much one wants to see train wrecks... :-) < 1277944423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because those recomendations would probably be total garbage (difficult to say better or worse than current official ones)... < 1277944751 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with current guidelines? < 1277944846 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some would say 'too much carbohydrates', but I won't... < 1277944990 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst part: They are almost impossible to follow without snacking on garbage... < 1277945175 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also that the recomendations do not seem to be based on reality... < 1277945245 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that US nutrional recomendations are published by USDA (agriculture) and not by HHS (Health)? < 1277945345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, latest ones are in co-operation with HHS, but one can still tell where the priorities lie...) < 1277945385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The old recommendations were, what, 11 servings of grains each day? < 1277945419 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The really difficult questions: What causes metabolic syndrome? There are some suspect causes, some known not to be cause. But no unified model. < 1277945431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, 6-11 servings. < 1277945479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot fathom eating that much grain. < 1277945542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eat 5 times as much grain as meat, poultry, fish, beans, eggs, or nuts!" < 1277945588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. What was it, 1 slice of bread = serving? "Eat a loaf of bread each day!" < 1277945616 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun "paradoxes" ("paradox" in food & health really means "we have the wrong model"): Whole milk is less fattening than skim milk. Epidemilogical studies pick association, animal studies pick causation. < 1277945689 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you need to eat lots of grains, since grains are nutrient-poor (that's for white grains, whole grains can be even worse). < 1277945741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also comical that they stuck pretty much everything with protein together... < 1277945765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because apparently tofu and a steak are nutritionally equivalent. < 1277945863 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun... Its impossible to satisfy both nutrional guidelines and what I think are healty macronutrient ratios (based on what has been observed in hunter-gatherers). Actually, only fundamental conflict is in saturated fat sector... < 1277945904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to say that the average US diet is any saner, but the government recommendations are fucking nuts. < 1277945914 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tofu. Yuck. < 1277945924 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I didn't refer to its taste). < 1277945929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now, eat a loaf of bread, but heaven forbid that you eat more than two pieces of fruit a day." < 1277945959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tofu is not bad when prepared well. (which it almost never is on this continent) < 1277946027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(flavor-wise, that is. Nutritionally, you're looking at protein and not much else.) < 1277946031 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr... Weren't fruits the second overhyped food group? Those tend to be quite high in sugar (of the apparently harmful kind)... < 1277946046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They said "2 a day". < 1277946076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as meats. And dairy products. < 1277946087 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vegetables were 3-5 a day. < 1277946115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also said "use sparingly" on... All fats. *All* fats. < 1277946136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, at least new recomendations have all sugar <10E%. Here sugar is <25E% (insane). < 1277946152 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's serving in dairy products? < 1277946196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 cup of milk. (the measurement "cup") < 1277946312 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I would exceed that by quite a margin... :-) < 1277946344 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277946430 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meats are good proein sources... < 1277946703 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does that fear of cholesterol come from? Not even Keys (who IIRC started the whole 'saturated fat is bad'/'high cholesterol causes heart disease' crock) thought that dietary colesterol is important (unless you happen to be rabbit or hamster)... :-/ < 1277947136 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... One (legendary) doctor had 4 patients that wanted to gain weight. So he had them drink 100g of olive oil a day... Didn't work... < 1277947304 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One with wrong model of things would call this "paradox"... :-) < 1277947438 0 :pineapple!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?925050 < 1277947713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277948228 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277948384 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1277948830 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, what makes you qualified to talk about nutrition, and others unqualified? Just asking.. < 1277948970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth has proposed a successor to TeX. < 1277948974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is XML. < 1277948979 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reportedly < 1277948992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THE HELL < 1277948992 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I'm qualified... There are others way more qualified than me. But there are also others (includin "experts") that are way less qualified. < 1277949011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XML is NOT a human-usable syntax. < 1277949015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Obviously it should be full SML < 1277949020 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is pure TeX < 1277949027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is more so than XML. < 1277949038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is not to say that it's very usable, but... Ugh. < 1277949356 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it's pretty obvious by now that was a joke < 1277949388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1277949393 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank God. < 1277950090 0 :Gregor-L!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277950149 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277950156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some website where you can bet on how far Knuth will get on TAOCP before he croaks? < 1277950178 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quick on the way to being the greatest unfinished work of computer science < 1277950216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still the greatest work. < 1277950267 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, yes, it is currently the greatest unfinished work, but you know what I mean) < 1277950398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:43:05 i wish oerjan was here < 1277950398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:43:31 are you talking about receiving head < 1277950402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY < 1277951021 0 :Gregor-L!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1277951188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like wyde < 1277951232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wyde is better than tyght < 1277952701 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277953710 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does sideways add serve any direct arithmetic use or something? < 1277953761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's sideways add? < 1277953800 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instruction on some architectures that takes two operands; the result has each bit set iff the first operand had it set and the second did not < 1277953833 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so AND NOT, really? < 1277953851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half AND NOOT < 1277953852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sorry < 1277953855 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that < 1277953865 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277953869 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's count the number of bits that meet those conditions < 1277953888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: er, i feel a draft over my head < 1277953925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in MMIX (the spec for which I'm reading), it could serve to count bits set because there's no direct operation for that (just put it against an all-0 second operatnd) < 1277953987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, isn't that with 0x0 on the second operand the identity function? < 1277954019 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said; I misspoke earlier < 1277954025 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit-counting instruction < 1277954036 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND NOT against 0 is the identity operation, yes < 1277954043 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "count the bits in X AND NOT Y" < 1277954121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know why one would want that particular combination often enough not to just construct it from simpler parts
< 1277954168 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Blame Knuth. < 1277954175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1277954185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His architecture. < 1277954188 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not just Knuth; I researched it and it's existed physically before < 1277954227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, must be useful then :D < 1277954234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he *did* try to make MMIX a CPU ISA that one could actually use. < 1277954255 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine he has some use in mind < 1277954299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cryptome.org/jya/sadd.htm < 1277954316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, saw that < 1277954322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's _very_ old < 1277954428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that page so far doesn't really imply that it did any AND NOT stuff before counting < 1277954731 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, the matrix operations are cool < 1277954822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that string search use of sideways add looks interesting < 1277954832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but uses AND, not AND NOT) < 1277954943 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Population count unit... Geez... < 1277954991 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very exotic instruction and optimized to ridiculous degree... < 1277955120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha: "Seriously, the milk section includes transparent cheese. Is that a new Kraft product?". < 1277955184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1277955220 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(referring to proposed 2010 dietary guidelines). < 1277955542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how Knuth's fake architecture is designed with several instructions that no one would really want on a computer used only for educational purposes < 1277955674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not intended only for educational purposes. < 1277955703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is, but it's intended to be real-world usable so you actually learn something other than a bizarre educational subset of things. < 1277955719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1277955729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one instruction is described as "reserved for operating systems only" < 1277955737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very nice touch. < 1277955758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"details are in MMIXware", which is not part of TAOCP < 1277955811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fake architecture? < 1277955952 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: in that it has no hardware implementations < 1277955990 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to see an arcitecture that can only be simulated
< 1277955996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it certainly could. < 1277956008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually a quite reasonable RISC architecture. < 1277956026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From Knuth and the guys responsible MIPS and Alpha. < 1277956063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he basically designed it so that you could put Linux on it < 1277956065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice: http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/diamondsigns/CP6.html < 1277956080 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't mean that he actually made that a design goal, merely that it is sufficiently comprehensive to allow that) < 1277956125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other words: he didn't want it to be a toy. < 1277956148 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah (unlike MIX) < 1277956154 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has compare-and-swap < 1277956228 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Compare-and-swap is absolute basic operation of multi-CPU operation. < 1277956264 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, from that one can construct all manner of atomic operations and all basic multithread synchroninzation primitives. < 1277956297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1277956302 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of odd instructions? < 1277956322 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1277956360 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: What instructions no one would really want on real computer? < 1277956360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIVIDE-AND-CONQUER < 1277956372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KILL-THEN-ASK (for handling zombie processes) < 1277956387 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: uh, the sideways add is a bit weird < 1277956406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIDE-SPLIT < 1277956423 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Sideways add? You mean population count? < 1277956445 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it is defined of "the number of bits that are 1 in $Y and 0 in $Z" < 1277956479 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's somewhat odd. < 1277956506 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one can use that as population count. Especially if MMIX has RISC-style zero register. < 1277956560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every operation has a form taking a constant as the third operand $Z, so yes, you can use it against 0 in one instruction < 1277956615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, internal interrupts involve jumps to low addresses < 1277956627 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(internal being within a program; not an OS-level interrupt) < 1277956633 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No IDTR? < 1277956638 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDTR? < 1277956661 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of interrupts there are within programs? < 1277956713 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conditions like integer overflow, divide by zero, or the like. Whether they are interrupts or just set flags is controllable, but if they are set as interrupts they all jump into the first few bytes of memory < 1277956735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the TRIP instruction, which causes a manual interrupt, seems weird < 1277956750 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for starters, it involves a jump to address 0 < 1277956776 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TRAP, which is an external interrupt, is by contrast quite useful and normal) < 1277956782 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want first page not to be mapped... < 1277956794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah well screw you. < 1277956814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: it does not have paging AFAICT < 1277956831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It does, but you're running in userspace so YOU CAN'T TELL. < 1277956841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, a kernel could implement it on top of the OS < 1277956845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1277956848 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on top of the architecture < 1277956852 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's no architecture support < 1277956890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made an MMIX simulator that ran unhosted code for the sole purpose of running Linux on it. < 1277956895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sucker's got virtual memory. < 1277956919 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, it may < 1277956925 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some features left undescribed < 1277956928 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so though < 1277956933 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't enough room in the instruction table < 1277957004 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yes it does < 1277957011 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop hiding features in sideways comments, Knuth! < 1277957011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What all is segment descriptor in X86 is pretty crazy. There are ordinary code and data segments, but there's also TSSes, task gates, interrupt gates, exception gates, LDTs, etc... < 1277957035 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is insane < 1277957047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason CISCs are going out of styles < 1277957063 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TSSes: Hardware-assisted task swapping... < 1277957072 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1277957074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguably, CISC is dead outside of 8-bit and 16-bit CPUs. < 1277957106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, modern x86 implementations are not CISC. They are RISC chips running a very fast x86 emulator. < 1277957107 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the no-op for MMIX is entitled "SWYM", or "sympathize with your machinery" < 1277957120 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, LDT is segment descriptor you stick into GDT. And some segment selectors reference entries in LDT. < 1277957166 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, you know things suck when... < 1277957222 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and of course call gates. < 1277957325 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have to look into MMIXware to see if TRIP has a real use < 1277957852 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and x86 has expand-down segments, where segment limit is minimum address and not maximum address. As for why Linux/x86 doesn't set kernel CS to be expand-down: Expand-down code segments are not supported! < 1277958016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, x86's segmentation. < 1277958033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were crazy enough, you could use it *and* paging for virtual memory. < 1277958035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1277958265 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System segment types: TSS (16 and 32 bit, available and busy variants of course), Call gates, Interrupt gates and trap gates (all with 16- and 32-bit variants). < 1277963178 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277963209 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you value your independence and creativity, you should be aware that Apple doesn't. Take your computing elsewhere." -- FSF < 1277964123 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if we get the FSF and Apple into a major battle, they'll destroy each other and the world will be a better place < 1277964174 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, are you sure that equivalent organizations (or company or so) won't arise after them? ;) < 1277964195 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: there will be a Calm < 1277964205 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great. < 1277964263 0 :SgeoN1!~AndChat@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964460 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277964460 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277964463 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277964463 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1277965153 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: So, you are proposing the plot of FFX as a solution. < 1277965174 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1277965182 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems good to me! < 1277965249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All fun and games until some punk decides to kill off everything to spare people pain. < 1277965297 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I think you're confusing games < 1277965341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seymour? < 1277965350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ending the spiral of death? < 1277965385 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sure. I thought you were talking about Yu Yevon < 1277965405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, Yu Yevon's a different kind of crazy. < 1277965431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All fun and games until some punk decides to turn people in statues to run a massive summoning. < 1277965436 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, happy no? < 1277965438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now? < 1277965466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kill off everything < 1277965469 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, now I'm happy < 1277965502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277967662 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Canada Day! < 1277968469 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1277969269 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277969350 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277969376 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1277970316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277970919 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth announced yet? < 1277970961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The twitterverse seems to say that it was a jokey thing "announcing" TeX's successor with XML syntax. < 1277970982 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTeX < 1277971030 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then something about ringing a bell when you say the name. < 1277971039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277971052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ended up in Wikipedia for ~2 hours, too: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Itex&oldid=371122107 < 1277971080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, everything does. < 1277971113 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it features 3-d printing and VP8 < 1277971127 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORING. < 1277971199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1277971200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277971327 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277971359 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1277971378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, if I tell mutt to search for a string in message bodies on this 1776-email IMAP inbox, it will fetch all message bodies. Wasn't there some sort of search functionality in IMAP? (Come to think of it, it's probably just that it wouldn't support regexps that way.) < 1277971499 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971499 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I didn't even find what I was looking for.) < 1277971629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277971631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so Knuth's announcement was a joke? < 1277971646 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1277971652 0 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-161-133.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277971702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So it appears. < 1277971705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don Knuth" sounds strange. < 1277971731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ...? < 1277971734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1277971735 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didnt actually make an announcement, did he < 1277971751 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes. < 1277971757 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes what < 1277971783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He made a joke at the end of a conference; it's not so uncommon, though usually the jokes don't come with this much pre-excitement. < 1277971795 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the joke? < 1277971824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That there'll be a TeX successor called iTeX with XML syntax. It's just a dozen comments backwards on this channel, you know. < 1277971835 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1277971857 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that knuth < 1277971872 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes a bit weird tho < 1277971892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, hes quite smart and knowledgable, but at the same time he seems to have a weird view of how numbers work mathematicall < 1277971893 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1277971927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1277971932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1277971940 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho he might be a strict formalist, in that regard < 1277972000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in one of his books, he made some comments regarding natural numbers and integers and so on and so forth and i wrote him saying that mathematically speaking, these two things were identical in some relevant fashion < 1277972018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, well, natural numbers/integers and reals < 1277972026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1277972026 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically involving the naturals/integers being a subset of the reals < 1277972031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why one could possibly want an enum larger than an int
< 1277972035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes they are < 1277972054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he replied that you'd have to define an equivalency between them in order to make such and such blah blah blah < 1277972070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: With 16-bit ints, you might only have room for puny 65k named constants. < 1277972071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no binary dollar for you :P < 1277972081 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i was saddened < 1277972097 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... There's Damn Vulernable Linux... Linux distro stuffed with outdated software, exploitable software and ill-configured software... The list of default services is probably impressive. < 1277972101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially that it wasn't a simple enough error < 1277972130 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if it were an error that could be made by simply forgetting to copy some symbol or other, or whatever, ok sure fine whatever < 1277972140 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops, typo, so to speak < 1277972152 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this was kind of crucial to the point he was making < 1277972152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this was from the x86-64 ABI spec; it uses 32-bit ints. < 1277972171 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you want 4 billion named constants? < 1277972192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you want to name each and every memory location with a descriptive name? < 1277972229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 64-bit ABI. < 1277972245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so you need more than 32 bits for it. < 1277972291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't the compiler die of overwork trying to keep track of them? < 1277972343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you have a limited amount of cases but they're represented by bit-patterns wider than int, maybe? < 1277972376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 64-bit register with few flags up high, and you want the values in an enum so that you can say "blah | bleh" to get a proper value. < 1277972380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that. < 1277972399 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: blah | bleh < 1277972400 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i guess i < 1277972420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, it's allowed for the values of enum constants to be non-arbitrary integers. < 1277972427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You guess you what? < 1277972428 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: something like that, change the environment properties/ colors/ positions once a while back he snagged a bit of plot creativity, they could be < 1277972435 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aha." < 1277972568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1277972568 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1277972607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do you have wider-than-int enums, though? < 1277972686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it was in the x86-64 ABI spec. < 1277972687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ and some implementations of C permit enums larger than an int. The underlying < 1277972687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type is bumped to an unsigned int, long int or unsigned long int, in that order. < 1277972758 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: my first actions if I heard someone was running it: ssh root@box < 1277972852 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You mean 'telnet box'? :-> < 1277972876 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that doesn't work, I'd try mysql < 1277972902 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, ssh might be better target, but there's no telling what they have used as in.telnetd (probably something really vulernable). < 1277973011 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not only vulernable, but misconfigured to create additional vulernabilities. < 1277973023 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the SSH probably has SSH1 enabled... < 1277973067 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but if root is passwordless or has a weak password, SSH wins (assuming it allows root logins at all, which is always a bad idea) < 1277973101 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, guess twice if it allows direct root logins? :-) < 1277973141 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it? < 1277973164 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, judging from goals, it very probably does. < 1277973247 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see an instructor running that and giving bonus marks for every different way someone students came up with to root it. < 1277973319 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1277974246 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-140.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277976394 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977118 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277977398 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1277977409 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1277977510 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-85-116.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1277979278 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1277980520 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1277981189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277981596 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277982706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAGH the number 168 is stuck in my head and I don't know why. < 1277983435 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277984156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I wonder if linux is smart enough when dealing with reading from software RAID1 that it uses the disk that happens to have the read head closest to what it needs to read? < 1277984242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is software RAID1 handled? < 1277984280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel < 1277984511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, or did you mean which command line tool you use to set it up? < 1277984527 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I meant kernel or userspace. < 1277984538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, kernel then < 1277985130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds somewhat tricky to arrange it completely optimally; preferrably you'd start reading with the drive that has the least seek time to the target region, and then read in parallel from all drives as soon as they have reached the proper place. < 1277985190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if you can get precise enough geometry information from disk controllers nowadays. And there's sector remapping and all that fluff. < 1277985359 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1277985899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1277986265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the "this howto is deprecated" Linux Software-RAID HOWTO, on the topic of RAID-1: "Read performance is good, especially if you have multiple readers or seek-intensive workloads. The RAID code employs a rather good read-balancing algorithm, that will simply let the disk whose heads are closest to the wanted disk position perform the read operation. Since seek operations are relatively expensive on modern disks (a seek time of 6 ms equals a read of 123 kB at < 1277986265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 20 MB/sec), picking the disk that will have the shortest seek time does actually give a noticeable performance improvement." < 1277986282 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So at least at some point it has attempted to handle that cleverly. < 1277986297 0 :yiyus!~124271242@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1277986527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same phraseology (with updated numbers: 8 ms, 640 kB at 80 MB/sec) appears in raid.wiki.kernel.org, but on the other hand in the "Performance" page the benchmarks don't show very much read-speed differences between non-raid and RAID-1 access. (The benchmarks look somewhat haphazard, though.) < 1277987730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277988026 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Coyote finally caught me < 1277988034 0 :rodgort!~rodgort@li14-39.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988208 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1277988341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would appear < 1277988348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can you _truly_ be sure? < 1277988386 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but for all I know you could just be an emergent phenomenon of the intenet itself. < 1277988395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : That there'll be a TeX successor called iTeX with XML syntax. It's just a dozen comments backwards on this channel, you know. < 1277988400 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would explain why you are so elusive on Google. < 1277988455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very name of that + the preannouncements would seem to imply knuth was deliberately making a joke on apple hype < 1277988480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well except apple doesn't make preannouncements, do they < 1277988524 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277988653 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-80-35.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277988729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just do strictly controlled leaks with both correct and incorrect information, to keep the hype going. < 1277988736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: guesswork and speculation.) < 1277988805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AAGH the number 168 is stuck in my head and I don't know why. <-- it's your serial number, duh < 1277988826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :168? Out of ~7 billion? < 1277988842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel honoured. < 1277988856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, out of 666 < 1277988862 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect it's an SCP, but I really don't want to find out which. < 1277989002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few more bits of trivia that Knuth said about iTeX: no escape sequences, menu-driven, speech-recognition something. (From a random tweet.) < 1277989013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, "knuth announcement: 27th most popular search in the past hour." < 1277989038 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :168 is an SCP, but not one I'd previously read about. < 1277989044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiouser and curiouser. < 1277989054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?q=knuth+announcement < 1277990974 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992397 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about XML in TeX, sometime in the past year... I'm pretty certain it could work (use instead of \begin{document}, for example) < 1277992569 0 :hiato_!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992624 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1277992692 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277992700 0 :cpressey!~sandbox@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992712 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277992801 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I want to spider a site, but I also want to spider a version of it from a few years ago from www.archive.org. < 1277992822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose a tool exists that does exactly that, so < 1277992843 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any suggestions for a spidering tool that is comfortably hackable? < 1277992934 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yourself? < 1277992993 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1277993146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget -r plus some perl goo, it is, then. < 1277993264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is already a XML syntax for TeX (TeXML). It's mostly intended for people who programmatically generate TeX code, though. < 1277993330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any clue how good/sensible it is. < 1277993409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to do instead of \begin{x} for example, so it's perhaps not that human-friendly to type directly. < 1277993763 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1277994115 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277994153 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1277994167 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1277994499 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277994550 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1277994779 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This Knuth thing is an April Fool's joke, right? Just 3 months late? < 1277994789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We think so. < 1277994907 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or nine months early, maybe. < 1277995047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's only one yearly tex conference... < 1277995073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top-level one, that is < 1277995273 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1277995692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523 < 1277995699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1277995711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I proved both Reversible Brainfuck and DoFuck TC in my head last night < 1277995718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, as usual with proofs done mentally, there may be bugs < 1277995752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed -- from the sound of it, Reversible Brainfuck would not be too hard to prove? Or is it weirder than its name suggests? < 1277995764 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what I'm saying < 1277995770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're both BF with different definitions of the [ command; DoFuck has it enter the loop unconditionally, Reversible Brainfuck has it enter the loop if the current cell /is/ 0, rather than if it /isn't/ 0) < 1277995773 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given how hard Burro was < 1277995797 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking I might actually implement my idea for Goldbach... was making some notes last night < 1277995803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not trivial to prove; the issue is trying to make sure you can enter a loop the good-old-fashioned BF way < 1277995807 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will turn out to be very un-exciting, though < 1277995810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which requires somehow ignoring the value when you enter it < 1277995822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1277995941 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Goldbach idea just degrades into "Loop over pairs of primes until you find two that sum to the next larger even number you need", and if you can't do that, you can't perform a top-level loop. So if the Goldbach conjecture is false, there is a limit to the number of useful iterations you can do. < 1277995965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! < 1277995979 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next larger even number -> first you have to goto -2, then -4, then -6 ... which all basicallly are gotos back to the first instruction of the program < 1277995987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember asking bits of the mathematical community about the goldbach conjecture, though; they all believe it's true, just have no proof < 1277995991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very contrived. :/ < 1277996006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hard time fantasizing about it *not* being true. < 1277996026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would there be just one "non-Goldbach" even number? < 1277996029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There could be < 1277996040 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing would seem to imply there would be more than one, if there were one. < 1277996041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably 2, but that doesn't count < 1277996297 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I supposed to fall in love with Lua? < 1277996327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: it's good for some things, not for others < 1277996335 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... catseye.tc's front page looks pretty spectacular in FF when the canvas is only 23-or-so pixels high < 1277996355 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is thinking of rewriting some of the C# stuff in Lua so it can be easily unloaded, changed, and loaded without restarting the bot
< 1277996382 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Never a good idea to fall in love with a language. It can only lead to hurt when the summer's over. < 1277996425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, Lua's OK. In many respects, for me, it beats both Python and Ruby. < 1277996468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In others, well, nothing's perfect. < 1277996522 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what ways is Lua imperfect? < 1277996560 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well. There is no "standard" way to do object-orientation. So, if you mix and match two libraries which use different styles, it can be ugly. < 1277996585 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also something think they went too far, when they merged dictionaries and arrays into one thing. < 1277996595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/something/sometimes/ < 1277996652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of my other gripes are about the implementation and things like availability of libraries, which aren't really core language issues. < 1277996713 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1277996742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277996753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1277996781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where it beats Python: Lua doesn't make a distinction between attributes and dictionary entries. a['foo'] is the same as a.foo. The division in Python is artificial at this point, and in the code base I work on at least, extremely annoying. < 1277996815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: JavaScript works like that too < 1277996827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, JS and Lua are surprisingly similar languages < 1277996846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, JS is actually a lot better than I usually give it credit for. And yes, similar to Lua in many ways. < 1277996873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS has mostly been held back by being mostly trapped inside a web browser < 1277996915 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Web browsers with generally lousy debugging/interaction capabilities, especially. < 1277996939 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's not a coincidence that much of the JS I write has the same feel as much of the Assembly I write. < 1277996947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Firebug and the Epiphany/Safari/Chrome web inspector are pretty good for debugging < 1277996971 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, I didn't mean to imply such tools weren't available. < 1277997019 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1277998360 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999186 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1277999261 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999445 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1277999468 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1277999567 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1277999729 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278000310 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~nice@p5B1321E1.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278000392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1278000417 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001556 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278001595 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278001629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278001830 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001849 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278001875 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001879 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278001882 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278002046 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278002289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278002527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New kernel; back in a bit. < 1278002564 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278002607 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-212.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1278002702 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278003565 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1278003842 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278004306 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1278004347 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278004417 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1278004450 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-62.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1278004978 0 :KINGZ!~STOP_POWE@78.101.184.79 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278005943 0 :KINGZ!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278006198 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278007298 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278007685 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1278008620 0 :ipatrol!~ipatrol@wikimedia/Ipatrol JOIN :#esoteric < 1278008632 0 :ipatrol!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278009024 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278009026 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278009647 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1278010403 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011130 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011413 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278011438 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278011854 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1278012172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278012194 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278012382 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278012865 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278013546 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting… < 1278013661 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278013869 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108489.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014049 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014241 0 :ghostwriter42!~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014296 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick i need a someone to pick a *even* number between 50 and 100 that has two different digits! < 1278014404 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :68 < 1278014429 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1278014435 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you < 1278014440 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1278014441 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278014447 0 :ghostwriter42!~ghostwrit@unaffiliated/ghostwriter42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278014459 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 68 a common response or something? < 1278014489 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mindcontrol101.blogspot.com/ read the paragraph that says "pick a number" < 1278014537 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1278014547 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you win < 1278014584 0 :ghostwriter42!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1278014830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1278014852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1278015081 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015321 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1278015383 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015482 0 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.115.83.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015485 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1278015613 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone think of a cool name for a website specialising in programming games? < 1278015673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I am interested < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1278015705 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278015853 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a shame programming.com, programming.net and programming.co.uk are wasted :-( < 1278016063 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proggames? < 1278016135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: btw, there was a bit of movement on the BF Joust leaderboard recently < 1278016137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it isn't /quite/ dead < 1278016153 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I'll take a look :-) < 1278016358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can has decent headphones! And stuff for curry, reubens, and such!
< 1278016363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glee! < 1278016373 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Glee < 1278016388 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278016534 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1278016552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1278016714 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017540 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017803 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1278017805 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1278017812 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1278017829 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1278017834 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1278018031 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1278018291 0 :Geekthras!~geekthras@adsl-99-39-2-249.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1278019281 0 :Geekthras!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278020194 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.10/20100504093643] < 1278022015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1278023997 0 :ehirdiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.248.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278024000 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth? < 1278024015 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Announced what? < 1278024035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point, I haven't heard any followup on that < 1278024040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, is the answer < 1278024047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which surprises me, I thought it would have at least hit Slashdot < 1278024067 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T'was yesterday night, late. < 1278024073 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq will know. < 1278024092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checked a search: it seems he was joking < 1278024105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he announced an XML-based TeX, called iTex < 1278024107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: It was a joke. < 1278024113 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guess (stolen from Hacker News): a typo was found in a comment in METAFONT < 1278024120 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Bah! :P < 1278024149 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iTeX features Unicode, XML syntax, 3D printing, stereophonic sound, and a menu-driven interface. < 1278024156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only places the actual announcement seems to have hit are Twitter and ycombinator.com < 1278024174 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Unicode in TeX. Hahaha, what a silly idea. < 1278024220 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me to eat after leaving. I'm starving. < 1278024236 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to scavenge something from my room... < 1278024303 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are filesystem drivers servers in HURD? < 1278024341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes. < 1278024358 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what isn't? < 1278024385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Quite a few hardware drivers. < 1278024402 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse? Keyboard? Video card? < 1278024415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse, keyboard, text console. < 1278024424 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generic USB? < 1278024437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think also the block devices. < 1278024446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't have USB. < 1278024453 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ha! I am more modular than HURD. < 1278024459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Linux 2.2 didn't, and they use Linux 2.2 drivers. < 1278024469 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan n for some n is, rather. < 1278024491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would take approximately 0 work to make them be in userspace. < 1278024496 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps2/noises /dev/ps2/mouse < 1278024501 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re iTex: July Fools! < 1278024502 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*moused < 1278024511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you can make a server for literally ANY FILE. :) < 1278024517 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, it'd still be the HURD. < 1278024528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it would. < 1278024538 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine wouldn't be. < 1278024553 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is /dev handled in kernel at all? < 1278024557 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In HURD. < 1278024595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the kernel does not even acknowledge the existence of a filesystem. < 1278024619 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has /, though, yes? Just abstract. < 1278024626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278024636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach provides message passing. < 1278024642 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a server handles that. < 1278024647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1278024664 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Expand "kernel" a bit. < 1278024673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's unaware of the existence of filesystems, is it technically a kernel? < 1278024680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: The Mach microkernel that runs in kernelspace. < 1278024685 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not asking about just Mach :P < 1278024693 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes < 1278024697 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant < 1278024701 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my questions < 1278024708 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpret it a bit looser < 1278024710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Then it's hard to define what the kernel is. Everything else is daemons. < 1278024717 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1278024786 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Plan X will have a concept of / in the kernel, but only because the *whole OS* will be based on per-process namespaces. < 1278024803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel's / is a different / from everyone else's? < 1278024826 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In plan 9, every process has a different / < 1278024833 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its local namespace < 1278024841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas in HURD, a "file" is nothing more than a name provided for a port of a server. < 1278024847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a global / too, though < 1278024851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the things can actually communicate < 1278024864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And most of the actual POSIX abstractions are coming out of libhurd. < 1278024868 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: E.g. The rio wm works by rebinding the /dev/screen of its children, for instance. < 1278024874 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No. < 1278024896 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, process 1's namespace but thats irrelevant. < 1278024917 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They communicats by inheriting files served by other processes. < 1278024930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you reference, say, /home/alise, how does Plan 9 resolve that? < 1278024942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel's the part that, when it crashes, you're fucked. < 1278024954 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM /usr/alise < 1278024959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then that's Mach. < 1278024970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: right, I forgot how Plan 9 actively hates the FHS < 1278024973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just ignoring it < 1278024978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's a good definition < 1278024979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *maybe* the authentication daemon. < 1278024991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, only works if you have an MMU and such < 1278024997 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Your shell's /usr/alise. The same as your login process's, prolly. < 1278025004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, that's only if you happen to not be running a subHurd. < 1278025009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, on classic MacOS, any program could result in that < 1278025010 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plan 9 very predates the FHS. < 1278025026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(one can run a virtual Hurd system by starting another instance of the daemons.) < 1278025080 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Plan 9 also has absolutely no reason to acknowledge the FHS. It is very much not Unix. < 1278025106 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well. It's the official successor to 10th Edition Unix. < 1278025121 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1278025131 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apart from that, yeah. < 1278025150 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /usr for users dates back to PDP unix. < 1278025155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdiphone: Yes, and Windows is the official successor to DOS, but that doesn't make it DOS. < 1278025158 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "bin" was a user. < 1278025160 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1278025160 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278025165 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1278025180 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You should know; you tried them out. < 1278025190 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there some 'reverse parsers' for generating random expressions that match specified syntax? < 1278025194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice < 1278025197 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1278025206 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i wrote one and i don't know if it's worth releasing < 1278025215 0 :ehirdiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :alisephone < 1278025221 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: release it < 1278025227 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds v. Interesting < 1278025233 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1278025237 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you cool all of a sudden? < 1278025243 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one person is enough :D < 1278025260 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1278025261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote one for ICA a whie back because I needed testcases < 1278025262 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know, maybe it's not me :D < 1278025263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't work very well < 1278025274 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1278025298 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Read "...because I needed testicles." :| < 1278025316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I have those already < 1278025320 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICA? < 1278025351 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I plan to not have virtual consoles in kernel. < 1278025375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idealized concurrent algol, it's one of the languages I work with in my day job < 1278025383 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'll be servers that hook into the video and keyboard daemons or something. < 1278025394 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: HURD doesn't either. < 1278025398 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I want your day job. < 1278025403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... basically, algol designed to work better for mathematicians < 1278025405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the *physical* console in kernel. < 1278025406 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You said it did. < 1278025416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, not to be easier to use, but to be easier to analyze mathematically < 1278025416 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you kinda need to be in kernel-space to write to the VGA buffer. < 1278025422 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nobody uses that < 1278025432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what computer scientists use if they want a vaguely imperative language to work with < 1278025434 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Expose as server~ < 1278025448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... How do you think a non-framebuffer text console works? < 1278025457 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MAGIC. < 1278025467 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I know. < 1278025480 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just run all procs in ring 1 >_> < 1278025488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It writes ASCII and color info interspersed to the VGA buffer. Glee. < 1278025491 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protectedmemaccessd < 1278025547 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ooh, in true Plan tradition I get to improve C. < 1278025555 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tuples! < 1278025577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: Glee. < 1278025582 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1278025605 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: still hacking Plan9? < 1278025623 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A,B,C) = strict { A [0]; B [1]; C [2]; } < 1278025627 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*struct < 1278025637 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y,z) = tip < 1278025642 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := tup < 1278025654 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int x, double y) = foo(); < 1278025664 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hells yeah. < 1278025672 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Plan X. M < 1278025688 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine plan9 turned up to plan11. < 1278025697 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no " M." < 1278025719 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome < 1278025745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Even in the most recent version of Lotus Notes, you will get an error if you are typing in the subject line and click the add attachment button. IBM says this is a feature because you cannot add an attachment to a subject line, I think it is disgusting. < 1278025748 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my crappy gsoc proposal for P9 was not accepted so i left the topic for a while < 1278025758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the reasoning... < 1278025770 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm playing with rails 3 & heroku < 1278025773 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, let it deconstruct arbitrary structs < 1278025784 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome things < 1278025788 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a,b) = calc()).result < 5 < 1278025798 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: What a fall, from grace. < 1278025813 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*structs. < 1278025816 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1278025830 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1278025844 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webdev is my current job < 1278025864 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i do a lot of PHP which @#(&(&(@#**(#(*@#*#@*@# SUCKS < 1278025865 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and perhaps actual extensible types? < 1278025892 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Err no longer a no. < 1278025907 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't even find non-irritating MVC stack for PHP so i tried to write my own and failed :D < 1278025935 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does Hurd have a concept of users? < 1278025942 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what level, rather? < 1278025959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: That's done by the authentication daemon. < 1278025966 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Plan 9ish systems, users are... A login process. < 1278025983 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. < 1278025995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other news, this is my first nday playing B Nomic < 1278026006 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ever? < 1278026014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teucer challenged my claim to be a newbie, and I was as shocked as he was < 1278026015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ever < 1278026021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange the way the rules work out, sometimes < 1278026029 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't seriously buy the Era 4-5 argument? < 1278026030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really can't take much about B's history for granted < 1278026040 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That they never existed.) < 1278026041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: eras 4 and 5 never happened, BGora didn't have ndays < 1278026052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, most of B buys that argument < 1278026056 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with the former. < 1278026078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :platonically, I mean; sure, people played through and enjoyed them, and we can still talk about events happening in them < 1278026082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they were ignored by the rules < 1278026088 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1278026093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, they happened but the Clock was off continuously < 1278026100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus no ndays elapsed < 1278026104 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I distinctly remember the argument sucking. < 1278026137 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my nomic school is "formalism". :) < 1278026196 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alma mater: RMSN (The Retarded Monkey School of Nomic). < 1278026206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: the rule allowing the clock to be switched back on was commented out < 1278026221 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ph.D. in naïveté. < 1278026225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if the original comment crisis argument sucked slightly, someone made a much better one later on that pointed out it was commented out with both definitions < 1278026235 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*naïvety. < 1278026238 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shhhhhhhh < 1278026243 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid American English. < 1278026252 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fair enough. < 1278026294 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Pretty sure B has never existed :P < 1278026297 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my flatmates are using too much bandwith < 1278026310 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: throttle~ < 1278026317 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't < 1278026327 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some idiot secured the router < 1278026335 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1278026338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alisephone: heh, I'm playing B under the name "703B E29B E9CC E4ED A7E2 7F62 1608 627B 1BA5 7726" because the requirement to be uniquely named is back, and I feared "ais523" might not be unique enough < 1278026339 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reset it < 1278026373 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a SUSPICIOUSLY large number of 7s < 1278026389 0 :FireFly!~nds@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it's a GPG key fingerprint < 1278026430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure it's unique < 1278026456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a suspiciously large number of Es in the first half, too < 1278026497 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B? < 1278026522 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like /b/? < 1278026557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1278026562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite a difference < 1278026578 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026580 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was PSOX? < 1278026624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: an API to allow esoprograms to use operating system services, by Sgeo < 1278026627 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX is a system interface utilizing only stdout and stdin, so that it can be used by very restricted (esoteric) programming languages without modification. < 1278026634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its design made it basically only usable with BF < 1278026636 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods.
< 1278026643 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, why was that? < 1278026652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it relied on literal NUL characters a lot < 1278026659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I suppose Befunge can do those too < 1278026664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but many esolangs can't < 1278026667 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1278026737 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it was a binding to the C standard library. < 1278026758 0 :nooga_!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1278026763 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1278026767 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarted the router < 1278026768 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. The only magic to it was that the interface between the language and it was very thin, just stdout/stderr. < 1278026782 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It itself was just linked however it works on the host. < 1278026819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, reddit are debating the "M-x google-maps" command < 1278026827 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1278026952 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1278027173 0 :nooga_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurd looks cool < 1278027196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it exists in emacs? < 1278027211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not by default, someone implemented it < 1278027231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /hope/ it'll never get into the standard distribution < 1278027232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does it do? use picture-mode to display images? < 1278027243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's more complex than that, I haven't looked into it < 1278027249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link? < 1278027272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://julien.danjou.info/blog/2010.html#M%2Dx%20google%2Dmaps < 1278027444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does it do it? < 1278027449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :showing the image I mean < 1278027458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, I don't know the emails < 1278027461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't know the details < 1278027468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Emacs is certainly capable of showing images < 1278028599 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ClIRC - IRC client for Nintendo DS < 1278028602 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warrigal: No. Sgeo invented his own APIs. < 1278028605 0 :alisephone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were bad. < 1278028724 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides the NUL thing, howso? < 1278028744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Knuth "also stated that this successor of TeX will have features like 3-D printing, animation, stereographic sound." < 1278028750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, has hit Slashdot, eventually