00:02:55 <alisephone> ais523: Wish you judged my CFJ UNDECIDABLE. :)
00:03:28 <Sgeo_> alisephone, besides the NUL thing, how were they bad?
00:03:41 <ais523> alisephone: I don't see any evidence for that
00:03:56 <ais523> and, you're probably lucky, the alternative would have been that your message ironically made you /deregister/ and get locked out for 30 days
00:06:41 * Sgeo_ wonders if he should make a PSOX2
00:06:50 <Gregor-W> <ais523> Knuth "also stated that this successor of TeX will have features like 3-D printing, animation, stereographic sound." ... huh?
00:07:03 <Sgeo_> And this time, keeping in mind the needs of a variety of languages
00:07:03 <ais523> Gregor-W: he was trolling, quite successfully
00:07:11 <ais523> I suppose, if you're Knuth, you can get away with it
00:12:17 <alisephone> ais523: Weak evidence: rules say A becomes B strongly, but it
00:12:48 <alisephone> It stays B - rules violated, change from A to B didn't happen
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00:13:04 <alisephone> It becomes A - not stated anywhere in rules, illogical
00:13:17 <alisephone> has to be one or the other but cannot be either
00:14:19 <alisephone> Mation of tex flowing text would be awesome
00:14:36 <alisephone> start at ragged right, hyphenate, justify, etc.
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00:23:06 <zzo38> I want to make skins for forum softwares, with these features: * The UNIX timestamp of the last new item in any file linked to, will be included in the query string of the hyperlink that points to that file. * All operation by keyboard. * Minimal (or none) CSS, and no icons (to use low bandwidth).
00:24:02 <nooga_> zzo38: write a BBS so we can telnet the board
00:24:48 <nooga_> i can provide you with brand new, 8088 based, custom built machine with 300 baud modem
00:24:50 <zzo38> That is also a idea.
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00:25:06 <zzo38> I do not need a computer with a 300 baud modem to do so, any computer will do.
00:25:22 <nooga_> but it won't be so cool
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00:25:29 <zzo38> Another idea is to provide all messages using 9P.
00:25:58 <nooga_> what's the point if you can't see when particular character appear on screen
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00:28:20 <zzo38> I use multiple protocols in my own services and try to be minimal as much as reasonable possibly to make nearly anything work in many cases. Web browser software is very complicated. I do it make even a simple software can also connect. I have both HTTP and Gopher services, and some files are accessible by both, but some are useful only one way
00:29:10 <nooga_> who uses gopher these days?
00:29:22 <zzo38> Very few people, but there are some
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00:29:41 <zzo38> (I am not the only one)
00:30:18 <Gregor-W> Basically, people use Gopher for the same reason that I have a VM that runs System V.
00:30:33 <Gregor-W> They're protocol archaeologists, I'm an OS archaeologist.
00:30:42 <zzo38> People use gopher protocol because it is simpler, mostly.
00:30:59 <zzo38> I often make files accessible both on gopher and on HTTP as well.
00:31:00 <Gregor-W> I don't believe that for a nanosecond.
00:31:20 <Gregor-W> People useD the Gopher protocol because it WAS simpler.
00:31:58 <Gregor-W> But now, whether it's simpler or not, the effort involved in delving into the past just to serve a protocol no one can use is higher than any relief you may get from having a simple underlying protocol.
00:32:57 <zzo38> I serve multiple protocols on my computer
00:33:18 <zzo38> I have three protocols server by now
00:33:42 <Gregor-W> I fail to see the relevance of that statement to my previous statement.
00:33:45 <nooga_> Gregor-W: where did you get System V?
00:35:17 <zzo38> But there are things that work well with HTTP/HTML/etc
00:36:24 <zzo38> But I like to design "command-web", meaning you can have a command-web inside of a HTML document or HTTP header, or by linked or by local aliases, and you can access it using the command-web client (even if you have no web-browser program), and make it workable like any other command-line program is, including parameters, redirect input/output, pipe, etc.
00:36:59 <zzo38> That it can be done even if your server serves static pages only, and only over HTTP, it can still be supported by anyone
00:38:15 <zzo38> (I am also currently playing a pinball game, called Jiggle Box. I think it is a very good one. In addition, in the background audio someone says "Why do women always get a place to sleep? Because they are the weaker sex. No, I think women are stronger. Do you know why? Because they get enough sleep, that's why.")
00:44:29 <Gregor-W> Honestly that quote just makes me wonder where these people live where the women sleep in lavish four-poster beds and the men sleep curled up in the fetal position in the corner of a concrete box.
00:45:58 <nooga_> in soviet russia ... ?
00:45:59 <zzo38> I also played D&D today, in case you were wondering
00:46:15 <zzo38> In Soviet Russia, bed sleep on YOU!!
00:47:12 <zzo38> Are shadow mastifs good to eat?
00:47:26 <Gregor-W> In Soviet Russia, object verb SUBJECT!
00:48:16 <nooga_> mastifs is a good name for a new fs
00:48:36 <zzo38> Ah, yes. I suppose it can be made so
00:48:42 <zzo38> If somewould is going to do it
00:50:40 <zzo38> Oops, why did I write "somewould"? Is that a word?
00:51:30 <nooga_> i have so much work to do... i guess i will leave it and relax while implementing 9P in ruby or doing another useless thing
00:52:29 <zzo38> But, are shadow mastifs good to eat? This is what happened in D&D game today
00:55:28 <Gregor-W> nooga_: SUGGESTION FOR USELESS THING (depending on your C ability): Help extend Microcosm!
00:56:25 <zzo38> SUGGESTION: Write a brainfuck interpreter in FurryScript.
00:56:35 <zzo38> MORE SUGGESTION: See how many books you need to reach the ceiling.
00:57:13 <Gregor-W> nooga_: I'm so glad you asked!
00:57:17 <Gregor-W> I'll direct you to http://codu.org/projects/microcosm/ to answer that
00:57:58 <Gregor-W> We're actually talking in #microcosm about what the best quick-summary for what Microcosm is :P ... it's a portable psuedo-OS allowing you to run Microcosm binaries (ELF files for a POSIX-like platform) on "any" OS (or will be, once it's further implemented)
00:58:20 <zzo38> EVEN MORE SUGGESTION: Make a spell in D&D that is so complicated and obscure that nobody can figure out
00:59:08 <Gregor-W> nooga_: Come in to the Microcosm fold! You know you want to!
00:59:13 <zzo38> (Jiggle Box is one of my favorite pinball games. There is one feature it lacks which most modern pinball games have. Do you know what it is?)
00:59:39 <zzo38> Gregor-W: I think Microcosm might be good idea once it is written some more, possibly
01:00:08 <zzo38> Gregor-W: But can it run on different processors as well, or only x86?
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01:01:27 <Gregor-W> zzo38: Microcosm is not an architecture simulator, so you can only run Microcosm binaries intended for one architecture on the same architecture. It's only been ported to x86 and x86_64, but there's nothing inherantly unportable about it.
01:04:04 <zzo38> Perhaps also make up a new kind of virtual machine that can be compiled into native codes and have it that if the ELF binary uses that virtual machine, it will compile to a native code at first, but if it is already x86 it will just run it directly
01:04:30 <zzo38> I have discussed "restricted harvard architecture" before, as a way to ensure best optimization into native codes
01:04:56 <Gregor-W> We were talking earlier today about the feasibility of targeting LLVM as an "architecture" with ELF binaries.
01:05:19 <Gregor-W> Or, alternatively, targeting something like MIPS and creating a new user-process emulation for Qemu.
01:06:32 <zzo38> Do you know whether LLVM is restricted harvard?
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01:07:18 <Gregor-W> Honestly LLVM still confuses me a lot :P
01:07:27 <Gregor-W> (Only because I haven't looked in to it at all)
01:07:33 <zzo38> I have looked at it a little bit
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01:35:23 <pikhq> Gregor-W: LLVM is incredibly, incredibly simple.
01:35:48 <zzo38> pikhq: Do you know if LLVM is restricted harvard or not?
01:35:54 <pikhq> It's a single-static assignment assembly language that's easy to compile to other assembly languages and easy to optimise.
01:35:57 <pikhq> zzo38: Not even vaguely.
01:36:45 <Gregor-W> pikhq: I only get confused with LLVM when it comes to LLVM being compiled to native code so easily. If LLVM is so low level, then I can barely imagine how or where all the stupid issues of how you pass variables, pack structs and other such lunacy disappear.
01:37:15 <pikhq> Gregor-W: You generate machine-specific LLVM if you care about the details of that.
01:37:34 <pikhq> For instance, if you care about the struct packing for a 386 you pack it as though it were a 386.
01:37:51 <pikhq> It abstracts *just* the harder parts of compiling to native code, basically.
01:39:05 <Gregor-W> It's not strictly an assembly language, right? That is, it has a one-to-one conversion to/from "machine code" for an imaginary LLVM machine?
01:39:18 <Gregor-W> (Bytecode except not byte-code :P )
01:39:20 <pikhq> There is an LLVM bytecode as well, yes.
01:39:42 <pikhq> Most of the tools deal with LLVM bytecode, not LLVM assembly.
01:40:11 <pikhq> But since it *is* an assembly language, LLVM assembly is not *that* much more than an ASCII serialisation of LLVM bytecode. :P
01:40:42 <Gregor-W> So, the only thing I was confused about is that I didn't realize that you couldn't take .C files, compile them to one canonical chunk of LLVM bytecode, then compile that to a binary on any architecture.
01:41:03 <pikhq> You *can* do that just fine actually.
01:41:09 <pikhq> You just end up breaking ABI.
01:41:19 <Gregor-W> Well, you would have to make the most pessimistic assumptions about alignment and packing.
01:41:26 <pikhq> And breaking it *hard*...
01:41:42 <Gregor-W> There are systems where you simply cannot load data from an unaligned space, so you'd have to align everything to 8-bytes.
01:42:10 <Gregor-W> For that matter, how does word size work in LLVM?
01:42:11 <pikhq> You only really get system-arbitrary LLVM bytecodes for languages without a lot of low-level details already.
01:42:20 <zzo38> I have written program, such as CZZT the structures must all be packed otherwise it won't run. It also won't run on big-endian computers.
01:42:30 <pikhq> In which case you can just say "Figure this shit out, LLVM." I *think*.
01:42:30 <zzo38> So, I use SDL macros to test some things
01:42:46 <zzo38> It doesn't matter if the start of the structure is aligned or not, though. But the contents of the structure must be packed
01:42:50 <Gregor-W> zzo38: I would say you've written a bad program then :P
01:43:09 <zzo38> And they must remain in the order it is in, rather than changing the data around in the different order, it also won't work.
01:43:33 <zzo38> Gregor-W: You might say that. But it is done this way for compatiblity.
01:43:58 <zzo38> There are other things done too. It is designed to be compatible with a old DOS program written in Pascal, of which nobody has source-codes
01:44:42 <zzo38> Even the video memory structures are made to be same as the way that the IBM PC does in text mode
01:45:02 <zzo38> Although this new program is written in SDL, so it should work on any small-endian computer
01:45:18 <pikhq> Gregor-W: One needs to be aware of system word size.
01:45:34 <Gregor-W> pikhq: Yet another chink in LLVM's portability armor :P
01:45:46 <zzo38> In addition, this program requires 32-bit pointer sizes
01:45:57 <pikhq> It's not designed to be heavily portable. It's designed to be a nice language runtime backend.
01:46:03 <zzo38> If the target computer is big-endian or it has different pointer sizes, it won't compile.
01:46:30 <Gregor-W> pikhq: So if I did make a Microcosm-LLVM virtual machine, I'd need to make a Microcosm-LLVM32 and/or a Microcosm-LLVM64 virtual machine.
01:46:45 <Gregor-W> Something which e.g. Java can circumvent simply because it doesn't have pointers :P
01:47:08 <pikhq> Gregor-W: Actually, I think there's *ways* to make it run something kinda like C in that your program just accepts that different compilations will have different sizeof(void*)'s.
01:47:52 <pikhq> But I've not seen that in action, so I'm not sure.
01:48:04 <Gregor-W> pikhq: Compiling C to such a system would be lunacy, as sizeof(void*) wouldn't be a compiler-known constant, so even if it worked at the LLVM level it would break everything else.
01:48:05 <zzo38> Then don't use LLVM if you could instead make up a virtual machine that has restricted harvard architecture, it can have a pointer size that can be optimized into the target native code, for RAM pointer, but for ROM pointer there is no relevant pointer size because pointer into ROM is impossible
01:49:05 <Gregor-W> Of course, so long as Microcosm is a C-based system, we're stuck with having single-word-size binaries.
01:49:15 <Gregor-W> But I don't see why that should restrict us to single-architecture binaries.
01:49:50 <pikhq> BTW, fun fact: the LLVM linker lets symbols be unresolved at link time.
01:50:01 <pikhq> (so it can resolve at JIT time or native-code-generation time)
01:51:21 <pikhq> LLVM has a C backend.
01:54:30 <Gregor-W> C->LLVM->C->LLVM->C->... let's measure the eigenratio.
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02:04:02 <zzo38> Two characters in the D&D game eat shadow mastifs, my character and one non-player character
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02:39:20 <zzo38> Where can I find a list of what template files are needed in phpBB, and what the elements are that are used in each one?
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03:40:56 <zzo38> The CRTC has some stupid rules for the radio. One is that you are not allowed to play only part of a Canadian song. In addition there are rules for censorship that no pornography or swearing on radio, etc. I know some people don't like it (that includes myself), but I also like freedom of speech. I can propose a compromise, that such censorship is regulated only on odd numbered radio stations and not on even radio stations?
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06:43:36 <zzo38> That "Entropy" is interesting
06:44:15 <zzo38> When values are decay, does that include also the constant numbers in the program? It does include string literals, but does it include number
06:44:38 <zzo38> Also there is no list of commands and list of operators documented
06:45:03 <zzo38> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Entropy
06:50:54 * coppro should actually design/implement a language some day
06:52:00 <zzo38> coppro: Maybe do so some day?
06:52:27 <coppro> meh, that language is boring
06:52:49 <Sgeo_> Or design and implement crappy APIs!
06:52:59 <coppro> entertaining but positively useless
06:53:16 <zzo38> coppro: Yes mostly that is it
06:53:35 <zzo38> But there is not enough information about Entropy language, is still true
06:53:42 <Sgeo_> If you don't like useless, what are you doing here?
06:58:14 <pikhq> The Japanese are freaking crazy.
06:58:18 <pikhq> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Macrocheira_kaempferi.jpg The Japanese spider crab.
06:58:24 <pikhq> The leg span there is 12 feet.
07:00:16 <zzo38> When I ask some people on the other IRC about if shadow mastifs are good to eat, some people answer in different ways, including some people said only fox good to eat in that fantasy world, or don't understand why, or various
07:00:28 <coppro> pikhq: sounds delicious
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07:01:28 <pikhq> coppro: Y'know, actually.
07:01:41 <pikhq> Stick some butter on that and it probably *is* freaking delicious.
07:03:24 <zzo38> How often do you write "the"?
07:03:35 <zzo38> And how often do you write "I" and "you"?
07:04:02 <Gregor> The only time I would write any of them to /you/ is in this sentence.
07:05:45 <zzo38> OK that is a sentence
07:06:40 <zzo38> This is a sentence.
07:15:30 <fizzie> In a Google-provided corpus of 1024908267229 words collected from the interwebs, the word "the" is the most popular word, appearing 19401194714 times (1.89 %).
07:16:40 <fizzie> (I is on 15th place with 2744649681 occurrances, you is 18th with 2404223410. People on the internet care more about themselves than others, it seems.)
07:18:30 <fizzie> The top ten in order is: the, of, and, to, a, in, for, is, The, on. This seems to be case-sensitive, so I should've added "You" and "you" together, sorry about that.
07:20:03 <zzo38> It doesn't matter if you care about yourself or others, the reason for writing "I" or "you" is different things. Because there is different reasons for doing so. In addition, "I" might be used simply as a letter rather than as a word in some contexts.
07:23:51 <fizzie> Quasi-interestingly, if you take a selection of books from male and female authors, there is a noticeable difference in combined frequency counts of wordsets (she, her, hers, herself) and (he, him, his, himself) depending on the gender of the author.
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09:36:56 <nooga_> i've got a new project - running windows 3.0 on this -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19txZDTkbBw
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09:41:30 <nooga_> It is reported to have a gentle disposition "in spite of its ferocious appearance".
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12:26:44 <Ilari> Heh... Computer makes noise if I use floodping. And if IPSec is used, the noise sounds really awful.
12:27:22 <Ilari> Some computer-internal EMI?
12:37:35 <Ilari> Haha... On blog post Comment #2: "Mmmmm.... braaaaaiiiinnnzzzz....". Comment #3: "Wow, 2 comments plus this one and no denialists yet. are the zombies sleeping?".
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15:04:16 <pikhq> The Pirate Party is now going to take over running the Pirate Bay.
15:04:25 <pikhq> ... *Inside Swedish parliament*.
15:05:34 <pikhq> Because Swedish politicians are almost entirely immune to prosecution from things done as part of their political goals.
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19:15:52 <zzo38> I wrote a program for CYOA type games in TAVSYS
19:15:53 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/tavsys/lib/cyoa.4th
19:16:03 <zzo38> I can add more features if you have idea to add more features
19:18:37 <zzo38> Unfortunately there is not a lot of documentation, it only lists the error codes
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19:29:47 <zzo38> coppro: Hello, and good day, is it good day for you today?
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19:53:21 <zzo38> Please tell me, a question I did not get answer very satisfactory, is shadow mastifs good to eat? (in D&D)
19:53:45 <coppro> not very filling though
19:54:15 <zzo38> Why do you think that is the case?
19:55:43 <zzo38> I don't think it is actual shadow, I think it is proper physical object
19:56:07 <coppro> that's what they want you to think
19:59:42 <zzo38> It is not incorporeal. It is called "shadow" because they can hide in a shadow
20:01:40 <zzo38> Is it good for ettercap and/or otyugh to eat?
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23:18:02 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_11/mahjongflowchart.png
23:20:04 <Ilari> What's that "fat player's mahjong" about?
23:20:20 <zzo38> Ilari: I don't know.
23:20:44 <zzo38> Maybe it is from some manga I have not seen
23:22:17 <zzo38> I don't know how eating more can possibly give you a better chance for daisangen.
23:26:34 <Ilari> It is waiting activity (since metabolism control is busted and one is almost continuously hungry)?
23:27:48 <zzo38> Ilari: I am not sure
23:27:59 <zzo38> Daisangen is just a certain combination of tiles that you can have
23:28:27 <zzo38> It means three or four of each sangenpai (often called "dragons" in English).
23:28:44 <zzo38> It is a yakuman hand, which means it scores the maximum if you are East.
23:28:48 <Ilari> zzo38: Essentially 'eat' there replacing 'wait'.
23:29:44 <zzo38> Ilari: Ah, OK. You might have to play a lot before getting such tiles as that.
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23:34:05 <Ilari> Its amazing how often people with damaged metabolism controls go hungry (and then eat, usually not-good-for-you stuff).
23:35:05 <zzo38> I can explain most of the stuff in the mahjong flowchart, but I don't know what "squigglies" is
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23:45:58 <zzo38> Uncertainty Principle's Office: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/FatherHeisenberg.PNG
23:48:22 <zzo38> I did packaged the IRCd codes but it isn't very good packaged. http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/ircd/
23:52:20 <zzo38> Not many people understand evolution properly, but how many people are *that* bad http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_10/evolution_should_not.jpg
23:54:02 <zzo38> What does the error message "rDrebTenrsr nc RRdnrTSb SncrrebdRRdncsretrepscdogtia inte F t" supposed to mean??
23:56:02 <Ilari> Uh... No idea... What language it is supposed to be in anyway?
23:58:11 <zzo38> I don't know. I got this error in QuickBasic once
23:59:27 <zzo38> Something similar, in an unsubscribe form I have seen where it says "Please indicate why you are unsubscribing" but the only choices is "toto" and "titi"