00:00:31 pikhq: C IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL LANGUAGE !!!1!!!1!1! 00:00:57 How dare you suggest that it takes me two weeks to turn pages 7,500 times! 00:01:17 coppro: No, but functions are a very simple way of splitting up functionality in C. 00:01:20 pikhq: Let ubad(x) = x < 0 && x != UEOF. 00:01:23 Then: 00:01:28 And as such I use them extensively. 00:01:35 yeah, <3 functions generally 00:02:25 { char c; while(!ueof(uin)) { if(ubad(ugetb(uin, &c))) cry(); uputb(uout, c); } } 00:03:24 pikhq: Maybe capital U prefix for clarity. 00:04:13 { char c; Uerror(uin, cry); while(!ueof(uin)) uputb(uout, c); } 00:04:15 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:04:25 Ubyte b; while(!Ueof(Uin)) { if(Ubad(Ugetb(Uin, &b))) cry(); Uputb(Uout, c); } 00:04:50 cry? 00:05:00 pikhq: Repeat after me: I Will Not Use Non-Local Control Flow. 00:05:18 I Will Not Mindlessly Obey Alise 00:05:33 aliseiphone: Repeat after me: I Will Not Require Large Amounts of Boiler Plate For Error Handling 00:05:38 Actually, you will :P 00:05:46 pikhq: PC Lusering 00:05:48 aliseiphone: Boiler Plate For Error Handling Makes People Not Do It 00:06:24 Yes, And Is A Generic "OOPS PROGGY IS FUCKED" Really Any Better? 00:06:32 I'm going to look for a comparision of eReaders 00:06:36 Your code is completely broken anyway. 00:06:42 You don't even read bytes. 00:07:00 POSIX says they're bytes. Because POSIX likes lies. 00:07:01 :P 00:07:22 Dude. L 00:07:26 Read your code. 00:07:37 *no " L" 00:07:44 Oh. 00:07:47 Right. 00:07:51 Yeah. 00:07:51 XD 00:09:01 pikhq: WHY AREN'T TCP PORTS STRINGS? 00:09:50 Because TCP doesn't want to be useful for local process communication and it masturbates to port clashes. 00:09:54 aliseiphone: Because FUCK YOU that's why. 00:09:57 "Because this format locks you into a single device (and because you can’t get library books on a Kindle), we recommend getting an ePub-compatible ereader and not a Kindle. " 00:09:58 EEVIL TCP. 00:10:19 aliseiphone: WHY BSD SOCKETS 00:10:25 That's a general question 00:10:26 WHY 00:10:38 Strings aren't likely to be unique unless you're using URIs, and do you want to send a URI with every.. packet, I guess? 00:10:41 pikhq: S&M 00:10:50 Sgeo: You don't understand. 00:11:29 Strings are more USEFUL - http, mpd, gnome - and much less likely to clash than "1234". 00:12:16 -!- mtve has joined. 00:12:49 Wasn't TCP designed when space was more of an issue? 00:13:44 pikhq: How many bits are tcp ports? 00:14:09 Uh, 16. 00:15:02 So about 3 letters. 00:15:12 2. 00:15:28 Double it. 5 letters, accounting for terminator. 00:15:37 Actually, 2 ASCII characters. 00:16:00 Pretty sure ceil(log2(27))*5 <= 32 00:16:26 Of course theoretically you can have ceil(log2(27)*5) 00:16:52 Oh, just encoding the (upper or lower case) Roman alphabet. Mmkay. 00:17:00 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:17:36 -!- MizardX has joined. 00:19:02 pikhq: Beats a 16-bit natural. 00:19:35 Yeah. 00:19:44 pikhq: Of course, really we should remove the source field too. 00:20:02 (Source independent networking is jawsome.) 00:23:18 * Sgeo pokes aliseiphone with the idea of a Kobo 00:23:48 Sgeo: What? 00:23:57 http://chamberfour.com/ereader-comparison/#kobo 00:24:58 pikhq: In fact, y'know what? Condolences; you're on the aliseOS team. 00:25:13 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:16 aliseiphone: Hah. 00:29:19 pikhq: Idea: picokernel that provides two things;: fork(), and an abstract / namespace. 00:29:22 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:29:40 Process communication is done by giving your child a file to talk to you with. 00:29:51 s/ $// 00:30:01 *things: 00:31:51 aliseiphone: Issues: awesome or MOST AWESOME? 00:33:04 pikhq: We will have to research. 00:33:51 -!- coppro has joined. 00:33:57 aliseiphone: How's process communication going to work, semantically? 00:34:20 Something lazy like "We hand you a page that's shared between the two processes."? 00:35:00 * Sgeo goes off to read Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency 00:35:03 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:35:14 If I can stop distracting myself with the computer 00:35:18 * pikhq wonders why it always ends up being more complex than that 00:37:20 Must... not.. check IRC every two seconds... 00:37:35 * pikhq should look to see what L4 does 00:38:55 pikhq: 9P 00:39:00 Basically. 00:39:19 Everything is just binding 9P. 00:39:50 aliseiphone: Oh, okay. So, we've got fork() and kernelspace 9P. 00:39:55 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:40:09 pikhq: And that is IT. 00:40:22 And by "kernel-space" I of course mean "just enough of 9P to support it easily." 00:40:24 Kernelspace - not really. 00:40:25 :P 00:40:28 -!- aliseiphone has quit (Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info). 00:44:18 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 00:49:52 -!- kwertii has joined. 00:55:03 alise: stop adversiting colloquy for gayphone 00:57:19 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:01:59 When alise gets back, remind me to thank him 01:02:04 This is a great book 01:02:33 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:11:41 what book? 01:12:05 yeah 01:12:23 oh 01:12:27 Dirk Gently 01:12:29 is fantastic 01:12:30 read it twice 01:12:43 what? 01:13:17 Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency ? 01:13:19 yes 01:13:22 it must be read twice 01:14:24 hey, I'm trying to identify a port on my laptop 01:14:39 pan lodowego odrodu is definately awesome 01:14:46 if it comes to fantasy 01:14:49 it's as thick as a USB port but a bit longer with a single tapered corner 01:15:00 it has a funny D as a logo 01:15:38 the pins are on a piece of plastic extending out in the middle of the port 01:20:12 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:32:30 pikhq: I wonder how many of us regularly frequent #haskell 01:32:49 Decent chunk of this channel. 01:52:05 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 01:53:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:54:06 -!- Gregor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:00:14 -!- cheater99 has joined. 02:00:31 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 02:01:06 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:08:50 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 02:09:34 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 02:10:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 02:15:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Client Quit). 02:21:10 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 02:24:27 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:28:08 coppro, am I allowed to look at previous chapters during reading? 02:34:57 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 02:36:25 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:37:12 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:44:41 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:48:25 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:53:10 -!- jberryman has joined. 02:54:34 hi all 02:54:38 hey. 02:55:38 this is a chan for esoteric programming languages, no? 02:55:47 Yes. 02:56:05 okay I'm in the right place, thanks. :) 02:56:25 it's pretty exciting here. You can perform unsafe IO 02:56:48 !haskell performUnsafeIO $ putStrLn "Hello, World!" 02:56:54 ...or maybe not. 02:57:21 !haskell unsafePerformIO $ putStrLn "Hello, World!" 02:57:32 !haskell putStrLn "Hello, World!" 02:57:34 Hello, World! 02:57:47 I don't remember what module unsafePerformIO is in 02:57:50 anyways. 02:57:52 :P 02:58:00 haha 02:58:49 !glass {M[m(_o)O!"Hello, World!"(_o)o.?]} 02:58:51 Hello, World! 02:59:05 jberryman: do you know about the website/wiki and all of that? 02:59:11 hours of endless fun 02:59:22 CakeProphet: I don't think so 02:59:29 http://esolangs.org/ 02:59:40 ahh, I have of course run across it 02:59:57 can never be too careful. 03:00:23 are there any academic specialists in esoteric langs? 03:00:44 Depends what you mean by that, I guess 03:00:55 Esoteric languages are sometimes linked to computation theory 03:01:02 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:01:12 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:01:19 A lot of esolangs derive from mathematical research 03:01:32 Slereah: seems like more often than not 03:01:39 Well, depends 03:01:49 INTERCAL... 03:01:49 The math part most often comes in Turing tarpits 03:03:14 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:05:17 I would actually call Haskell an esolang 03:05:39 I wouldn't. 03:05:39 Iunno 03:05:44 mathematics is pretty esoteric, guys. 03:05:51 Maybe the academic version of Lisp 03:05:58 With its six functions 03:05:59 Now *Java*, that's esoteric. 03:06:21 Slereah: All you need is def and lambda, man. :) 03:06:39 But then that's just regular lambda calculus 03:06:51 incorrect. you don't need def. 03:06:52 While with the six functions, you don't need any lambda 03:07:06 oerjan: For Lisp semantics. 03:07:13 cons, car, cdr, atom, eq and if 03:07:23 Slereah: Bah. 03:07:37 Those are all just lambda in disquise. 03:07:46 Nah. 03:07:50 I mean, in a way, yes 03:08:03 But only because every turing complete system can be translated into one another 03:08:25 ... *Trivially*. 03:08:46 So are lambda calculus and logical combinators 03:08:49 Cons, car, and cdr in particular are very very simple functions. 03:08:53 ...the thing that I don't really like about all of this theoretical stuff 03:08:55 And yet I wouldn't call them the same thing :o 03:08:58 is it says nothing about IO 03:09:07 Actually, sometimes it does 03:09:17 CakeProphet: IO's generally trivial. 03:09:18 Like the original Turing machine had thought of IO 03:09:26 Well, depends 03:09:29 Sometimes it's pretty hard to implement 03:09:34 Slereah: No it didn't. You just had a tape. 03:09:41 At least in any other way than enter something at the beginning 03:09:47 pikhq : It did discuss it 03:09:52 In the Turing article 03:10:00 What he called a choice machine 03:10:01 Your closest to "IO" is you set the initial tape state and can look at the final one. 03:10:13 Not a Turing machine. :P 03:10:22 Still a turing machine. 03:10:33 !simpleacro 03:10:38 ZHMGPQKCTG 03:10:42 bah, skip 03:10:43 !simpleacro 03:10:47 OALBKQVXS 03:10:47 He just didn't call it a Turing machine because it would be kind of arrogant to call it after yourself 03:10:57 ...man these are terrible. 03:11:00 !simpleacro 03:11:00 !swedish swedish 03:11:02 svedeesh 03:11:03 OPTXQWYH 03:11:17 !simpleacro 03:11:20 YBEVNIWVT 03:11:59 Yogi Bear Encourages Vile Neanderthal Intercourse With Veinty Tissues 03:12:27 speaking of not speaking of IO: does anyone have examples of programs written in Iota or Jot that "do something useful"? 03:12:58 the only examples I've seen are programs that don't termintate 03:13:37 Let's see what fungot has to say about that. 03:13:38 CakeProphet: oh my. i have a list of things like airline software and the internet. serious business. small business suffers 03:14:56 Hmm. Berryman... I knew a one Berryman once. 03:15:15 I personally don't know anything about Iota or Jot. 03:15:37 Anyways: I seem to recall Iota and Jot not having very useful IO. 03:15:52 (though I may be completely and utterly wrong) 03:15:56 pikhq: it has no IO, really doesn't have a notion of data 03:16:00 I recall them being horrid and rather cheating in their "smallest number of function" thing 03:16:05 So that's why. 03:16:24 Iota and Jot don't have any, but Zot has, IIRC 03:16:33 Slereah: Not really. It's a single combinator. They just suck at documenting it as such. :P 03:16:50 pikhq : Yeah, but not a "pure" combinator 03:17:10 You can't define what it does without the help of other combinators or lambda calculus 03:18:13 Slereah: what sort of combinator would be "pure" in that case? 03:18:18 -gasp- 03:18:23 we can't have primitives 03:18:24 Even the guy who invented combinators knew that it was bogus 03:18:41 Slereah: I'm pretty sure all combinators are defined in terms of lambda calculus. 03:18:44 jberryman : One you can define by its action on arbitrary elements, I guess 03:18:53 Like Kxy -> x 03:19:03 one day the obsession with eliminating primitives will find some crazy way to make a formal system with absolutely no primitives... 03:19:05 You can't define iota's operator through that 03:19:07 CONGRATS that's lambda calculus. 03:19:17 Nah. 03:19:24 It can be defined by it, sure 03:19:33 (also combinators are older than LC, so there) 03:19:42 K := \xy->x 03:19:45 THATS WHAT YOU WROTE 03:19:51 jberryman: Lazy-K has IO and allows Iota and/or Jot as input syntax, iirc 03:19:51 YOU FAIL AT DEMONSTRATING YOUR POINT 03:19:56 wait wait guys 03:20:02 let's see if fungot can solve this. 03:20:03 CakeProphet: there was a better way than this? :-p 03:20:12 That is not what I wrote >:| 03:20:12 \o/ 03:20:13 Liar 03:20:34 what do you mean fungot? 03:20:35 CakeProphet: i bet you're trying to do it in scheme? your motivation affects what resources i will recommend. 03:20:43 Slereah: No, you wrote the near equivalent. Oooh, I can also make it valid Haskell. 03:20:55 ha. No, fungot, I was actually thinking of Haskell 03:20:56 CakeProphet: what is siscweb? i dont know how 03:21:00 pikhq : That's like saying that I wrote set theory when I do 1+1 = 2 03:21:09 First: Kxy -> x; Then: Kxy = x; Finally: k x y = x 03:21:24 Slereah: No, it's like saying you wrote 1+1 == 2 when you wrote 1+1 = 2 03:21:35 Is not. 03:21:46 You do not need to write the lambdas in such a thing 03:21:54 What does fungot think about set theory? 03:21:55 You can just show the action of elements on the function 03:21:57 Insert three characters and it's magically lambda calculus. 03:22:00 While you can't with iota's function 03:22:03 .... 03:22:06 MAGIC 03:22:12 oerjan: thanks. I was aware of Lazy-K, but I'm actually trying to grok how they encode numbers in Lazy-K 03:22:26 jberryman : I is 1 03:22:31 jberryman: church numerals i would think 03:22:41 If you want 03:22:43 I think I broke fungot, or he has a spam limit or something. 03:22:44 I define some numbers 03:22:45 In my 03:22:49 AWESOME LANGUAGE 03:22:49 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Lazy_Bird 03:22:59 jberryman: It's just an infinite list of church numerals. 03:23:59 but don't the combinators need to work on other combinators? 03:24:16 They can work on arbitrary elements 03:24:17 Slereah: Would you agree that U=\f->((fS)K) is a higher order function that only uses function application? 03:24:20 i.e. how can I feed the SKI conbinator calculus church numerals? 03:24:24 But usually they're used on other combinators 03:24:45 wat 03:24:48 jberryman: church numerals can be abstraction eliminated like any lambda calculus terms 03:24:56 Yeah 03:25:01 Here's a tip 03:25:03 1 is I 03:25:12 jberryman: With S and K you can represent any arbitrary lambda calculus term. 03:25:13 Try to convert the successor operator 03:26:18 Slereah: ... 03:26:21 Slereah: S I ? 03:26:23 -!- cal153 has joined. 03:26:27 jberryman: lessee 2 = \f x -> f (f x) = \f -> S(K f) f = S(S(KS)K)I modulo errors 03:26:43 oerjan: Looks correct. 03:27:24 jberryman: madore's unlambda page contains a pretty good explanation of abstraction elimination iirc 03:27:30 fungot is dead. 03:27:36 see? 03:27:36 Well 03:27:38 If you want 03:27:49 I included an eliminator of abstraction in lazy bird 03:28:01 there is no such thing as a fungot 03:28:01 oerjan: what do you mean by write a srfi for 03:28:19 haha. I've been blacklisted it sems 03:28:24 *seems 03:28:36 CakeProphet: unlikely. try again now. 03:28:43 fungot fungot fungot 03:28:43 CakeProphet: most people would blame lag... :) apparently i was wrong a while ago 03:28:57 hahaha. 03:29:17 it's sentient. 03:29:18 oerjan: thanks. I'll check that out. 03:29:34 it's not blacklist, it's flooding protection essentially, and it only keeps track of one person at a time. 03:30:46 oerjan: do you know how he works? 03:30:55 not precisely 03:30:59 or have a link to source or anything? 03:31:03 ^source 03:31:03 http://git.zem.fi/fungot/blob/HEAD:/fungot.b98 03:31:43 it does blacklist the other bots though 03:32:30 oh and the single-person block only affects the babbling, not actual commands afair 03:32:48 oh my god... 03:32:52 it's written in befunge? 03:32:57 how did I not know this? 03:33:14 * oerjan cackles evilly on fizzie's behalf *MWAHAHAHA* 03:33:22 indeed how 03:34:13 fungot is a masterpiece 03:34:13 CakeProphet: that's not quite fair; haven't tried it 03:36:34 haha 03:39:36 ^style 03:39:36 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 03:39:40 ^style alice 03:39:41 Selected style: alice (Books by Lewis Carroll) 03:39:50 oh... I was thinking of the bot. 03:40:08 I just checked fungot's source for bugs. it looks good. 03:40:09 jberryman: as i fnord but, as fast as you can," i said, hoping to keep him from beginning. 03:40:27 yep, no bugs 03:40:42 ^style lovecraft 03:40:42 Selected style: lovecraft (H. P. Lovecraft's writings) 03:40:49 fungot needs moar lovecraft. 03:40:51 CakeProphet: sights lying black under the unmeasured depth of age-old peat. that these hellish vestiges of old fnord magic and fertility cults were even now wholly dead he could not walk without the aid of the law. there had been the affable reporters, of whom several had still remained to collect final echoes of the third blast had died fnord away randolph carter saw that the passage was painted scenes of the utmost fnord, app 03:41:20 it seems to always use fnord 03:41:25 regardless of style? 03:41:51 always use what? 03:41:57 is the author a discordianite? 03:42:00 fnord 03:42:04 ... 03:42:09 I cannot explain any further 03:42:10 why are you sending empty text 03:42:18 (he does not get it) 03:42:24 ha... 03:42:40 CakeProphet: fizzie uses another program to generate the styles from text files, it replaces any word that only occurs once by fnord 03:43:11 sweet. 03:44:03 at least by default. there are apparently some parameters that can be varied, such as how many consecutive words to take into account. 03:44:14 fungot what is a fnord? 03:44:16 CakeProphet: matthew phipps shiel, author of some dozen tales long and short, whose literary posterity is destined to become so numerous, and in 03:44:40 eek thunder again 03:45:45 -!- Gregor has joined. 03:47:25 ^str 03:47:30 ^str what is this 03:47:31 Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] 03:47:46 ^str get str 03:47:46 Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] 03:47:53 ^str 0 get 03:47:54 foobar 03:47:58 ^str 9 get 03:47:59 Empty. 03:48:02 ^str 1 get 03:48:02 >,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[< 03:48:10 ^str 2 get 03:48:11 Empty. 03:48:33 ^bf >,[>,]<[<]>[<++++[>--------<-]+>-[-------[--[<+++[>----<-]+>[< 03:48:33 Mismatched []. 03:48:38 ...ah 03:48:41 of course. :P 03:49:27 the ^str's are for allowing inputting long programs by composing, i think 03:49:51 ^help 03:49:51 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 03:50:05 ^bf str:1 03:50:21 ^show bf 03:50:26 well that was the theory 03:50:44 bf and ul are builtins 03:50:54 maybe it only works with ^def 03:51:06 ^show 03:51:06 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord 03:51:18 ^def test bf str:1 03:51:18 Mismatched []. 03:51:21 ^reverb Hello? 03:51:22 HHeelllloo?? 03:51:42 ^reverb Sweet, nice reverb effect fungot 03:51:43 SSwweeeett,, nniiccee rreevveerrbb eeffffeecctt ffuunnggoott 03:51:49 oh it checks syntax already at ^def 03:52:15 ^show reverb 03:52:15 ,[..,] 03:53:14 ^show help 03:53:14 (^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool)S 03:53:18 ^def moarreverb bf ,[....,] 03:53:18 Defined. 03:53:26 ^moarreverb Hello? 03:53:26 HHHHeeeelllllllloooo???? 03:53:46 * CakeProphet is a programming /wizard/. 03:56:26 how do you copy a cell in bf? 03:56:51 hmmm, wouldn't you need three cells? 03:56:56 Yup 03:57:00 [>+>+<<-] 03:57:25 Mmm. 03:57:37 ah, but I am wasting my time. I have absolutely no clue how to read number literals and convert them to bytes in bf. 03:57:51 hm 03:57:55 ^show fib 03:57:55 >+10>+>+[[+5[>+8<-]>.<+6[>-8<-]+<3]>.>>[[-]<[>+<-]>>[<2+>+>-]<[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>+<-[>[-]>+>+<3-[>+<-]]]]]]]]]]]+>>>]<3][] 03:57:58 but it would be my first bf program attempt 03:58:01 ^fib 03:58:01 0.1.1.2.3.5.8.13.21.34.55.89.144.233.377.610.987.1597.2584.4181.6765.10946.17711.28657.46368.75025.121393.196418.317811.514229.832040.1346269.2178309.3524578.5702887.9227465.14930352.24157817.39088169.632459 ... 03:58:13 i guess that's the wrong direction 03:58:41 those number in ^show are run-length encoding 04:00:12 run-length encoding? 04:00:22 this is new to me. 04:00:34 just for compressing a bit 04:00:48 ^def test bf ++++++++ 04:00:48 Defined. 04:00:51 ^show test 04:00:51 +8 04:01:47 oh 04:01:50 gotcha. 04:01:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:02:57 ^bf +65. 04:02:57 04:03:17 apparently not allowed directly :( 04:04:11 so I guess you'd keep grabbing input until a space is hit. then you'd convert each digit into a byte value, then exponentiate by an increment 10^x 04:04:18 copying cells where necessary 04:05:13 i'd imagine multiplying by 10 and adding would be easier than keeping track of exponents. 04:06:04 ah, yeah 04:13:00 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:21:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:23:28 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined. 04:23:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 04:26:15 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:26:26 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314. 04:27:04 -!- Gregor-P has joined. 04:27:30 I am a denizen... 04:27:36 OF THE TUBERNETS 04:29:59 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:34:22 Gregor-P, didn't you get an eReader once? 04:34:32 Or am I thinking of some other Android device that you got? 04:37:26 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 04:40:55 ARGH 04:41:05 I really, really, really, want to full-text search this book right now. 04:44:36 Sgeo_: I have both 04:49:48 Gregor-P, what eReader? 04:56:01 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:56:51 -!- pikhq has joined. 05:02:25 Sgeo_: IREX 05:02:33 DR800SG 05:02:52 Would you recommend it? 05:05:39 Seems rather expensive 05:11:44 HELLO 05:17:05 It is expensive. 05:17:13 It's also MEGA-HACKABLE 05:17:36 And has a relatively big screen for the price. 05:19:11 I don't know if I want a big screen 05:19:21 I want something as comfortable to hold as the Nook, I think 05:19:31 But preferably less of a PITA to use 05:20:23 The IREX is about the same size as the nook. 05:20:46 Its tablet screen is surprisingly nice fo general navigation. 05:22:10 !simpleacro 05:22:14 GXO 05:22:29 Great eXtensible Oral 05:22:45 ... 05:22:45 My dad says he might be able to get me a Kindle for free :/ 05:23:47 !simpleacro 05:23:49 UMGDMBO 05:23:56 this one looks good. 05:24:57 -!- kwertii has quit (Quit: bye). 05:25:02 but... I don't feel like it. Someone else can try if they like 05:27:08 Kindle's not bad 05:27:16 Depends on what you need. 05:28:18 I'd like to be able to borrow ebooks from the library, now that I know that that's something that actually exists. 05:29:01 Universal Markup for Geophysics of Dynamically Moving Bodies of Oceania 05:29:21 Sgeo_: Kindle can't do that, everything else can. 05:29:30 Gregor-P, indeed 05:29:59 The fact that the Kindle would be free is the only reason I'm even thinking about it at this point 05:30:15 i'm kinda hoping pixel qi works out to be awesome 05:30:19 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi. 05:30:34 i am almost tempted to spring for the Adam when it comes out 05:30:44 Gregor-P: nicely done sir. 05:31:26 sounds like a good domain-specific language. 05:31:53 !simpleacro 05:31:55 KASKNGMX 05:32:30 meh 05:32:31 !simpleacro 05:32:33 FDZCLHTBZ 05:32:40 ... 05:32:52 I'm done. Off to get fucked up. cheers everyone. 05:33:20 Double cheers for dungot. 05:33:21 ... 05:33:23 *fungot 05:33:23 CakeProphet: he had wished to find the sun coming out. they were 05:33:34 "Avoid the clunky navigation of other eReaders with this quick and easy solution." *cough* Nook *cough* 05:35:58 lol @ simpleacro 05:36:12 i wrote an acro script once 05:36:18 it was a lot of work for a simple concept 05:36:36 this method is somewhat easier hehe 05:37:09 though, it'd be nice if it followed english letter probabilities for the start of words or something 05:39:29 !haskell putStr $ ((++"bottles of beer on the wall.\n").show) =<< [99..1] 05:40:07 * Sgeo_ thinks he wants a Sony Reader Touch Edition 05:40:20 [99..1] is an empty list 05:40:58 > [99..1] 05:41:05 !haskell [99..1] 05:41:07 [] 05:41:21 100-[1..99] perhaps 05:41:26 or something 05:41:28 i don't know haskell! 05:41:32 [99,98..0 05:41:33 !haskell [99,98..1] 05:41:34 [99,98,97,96,95,94,93,92,91,90,89,88,87,86,85,84,83,82,81,80,79,78,77,76,75,74,73,72,71,70,69,68,67,66,65,64,63,62,61,60,59,58,57,56,55,54,53,52,51,50,49,48,47,46,45,44,43,42,41,40,39,38,37,36,35,34,33,32,31,30,29,28,27,26,25,24,23,22,21,20,19,18,17,16,15,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1] 05:41:37 [99,98..0] 05:41:38 actually i don't even belong in this channel haha 05:41:40 oic 05:41:41 oerjan: ah, have to give it some advice? 05:41:52 Sgeo_: I've heard better things about the Sony than the Nook 05:42:10 Mainly WRT usability 05:42:21 !haskell putStr $ ((++"bottles of beer on the wall.\n").show) =<< [99,98..1] 05:42:22 99bottles of beer on the wall. 05:42:25 ha 05:42:27 I tried a Nook 05:42:34 It.. was annoying 05:42:37 myndzi: you cannot do 100-[1..99] out of the box. you could define a class instance to make it work, though. 05:42:39 Although I think I could survive 05:43:10 The worst thing, IMO, was the placement of the page turn buttons. WHY would you have upper button on both sides be back, and lower buttons be forwards? 05:43:32 But that's just what I'd need to adjust to. The color screen is.. annoying, to say the least 05:43:42 It's unusably small 05:44:55 The page turning on the IREX is SWEET 05:47:19 you know what else is sweet? 05:47:28 switching between color lcd and e-ink 05:47:29 :P 05:55:55 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:59:07 My head hurts now. 05:59:53 So: in addition to Taiwan and China's mutual claims, the US has a valid claim over Taiwan. 06:00:01 After WWII, we occupied Taiwan. 06:00:10 We then delegated authority to the Republic of China government. 06:00:18 And we continue to do so. 06:00:29 *Ow*. 06:00:36 Whew... That Skyroads thing took almost 35 hours to render... Now doing the same with Xmas version... 06:02:21 Should be faster as the game is shorter (by over 3.5 minutes) and most levels are shorter. 06:06:48 -!- Rafajafar has joined. 06:08:40 If I get a touch edition, can I use it to make handwritten notes unrelated to books? 06:09:21 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:11:32 I have an esoteric question 06:11:45 Who decided that R4 was time and R0 was a point? 06:12:16 wouldn't it make more sense if R0 was time because time can exist independent of space? 06:12:22 eh w/e 06:13:14 any cool langs come out lately kiddos? 06:16:01 Sgeo_: Probably? 06:16:14 * Sgeo_ could use that 06:16:26 Scribble random math from time to time 06:16:37 Sgeo_: IREX can 06:16:46 Gregor-P, IREX is _expensive_ 06:16:54 Sgeo_: Yup :P 06:17:17 I think this device will get me back into reading, and back into math 06:18:20 I've got something better for that. 06:18:22 Is called a "book". 06:18:34 Rafajafar: Time is just another dimension, doesn't make much diff where it goes, it's no more independent from space than one dimension of space is from another. 06:20:13 well that's not exactly right? To say you can have a cube w/o the concept of a plane is ludicrous 06:20:15 but 06:20:36 isnt it equally ludicrous to have the concept of a point w/o a time in which it exists? 06:21:02 more of a philosophical question, probably. Just talking crank for a bit. 06:21:16 pikhq, you can't draw on books without ruining them 06:21:30 Sgeo_: Yes, well. What are you doing not reading them? 06:21:44 As far as getting into math is concerned, what I need is easy paper 06:23:45 Just out of curiosity, what are yalls backgrounds 06:24:02 I'm a simple bachelor of computer science, full time technology manager 06:24:05 Rafajafar: Matter of perspective. Can you have a TIME CUBE (errr, a cube that exists for some amount of time) without time? 06:24:09 <-- CS 06:24:30 www.timecube.com 06:24:44 according to him you're educated stupid 06:24:51 * pikhq is a currently not-enrolled-in-school 20 year old with a background that consists of being completely computer-obsessed. 06:24:55 'twas the joke :P 06:25:04 www.thymecube.com 06:26:10 myndzi: Tee. 06:26:20 strange joke, but glad you assumed I was on level to know it 06:27:01 Gregor-P: No I mean, it's ok to ask questions like this right? 06:27:21 I'm not suggesting it's wrong, I just do not know why it is... I'm seeking deep knowledge 06:27:36 Kinda the point of this channel. 06:27:53 well, ok, why isn't time the 0'th dimension? 06:28:09 because when you are numbering things you start with 1! 06:28:11 sounds reasonable to me that for existence to exist it needs time? 06:28:19 BLASPHEMER 06:28:23 burn him at the stake 06:28:25 haha. 06:28:30 maybe i should have said counting things 06:28:31 anyway 06:28:44 INDEXING STARTS AT 0 06:28:44 Can't write huge amounts of text on this phone X-P 06:28:47 time is not necessary for existence of course 06:28:52 If you fail to consider time as a dimension, you have 3 dimensions. Suddenly realize time is a dimension, and it's a fourth 06:28:55 SEGFAULT HIM TO OBLIVION 06:29:25 myndzi: that implies that space is necessary 06:29:29 And where it gets bit nasty is interrelation of spooky action at distance and relative time... :-/ 06:29:52 existence is what is, that's all :P 06:30:02 is timecube.com the previous version of stackoverflow.com 06:30:05 if time wasn't, existince wouldn't include it 06:30:22 if space wasnt, existence wouldn't include it 06:30:24 so 06:30:31 indeed 06:30:32 what if it was all backwards? 06:30:41 then that would be existence! :) 06:30:45 i mean 06:30:56 that would be ecnetsixe 06:31:04 what if certain things need to be defined with the perspective of time as a basis, and other things need to be defined as space as a basis? 06:31:13 such as, for instance, gravity 06:31:23 what if certain things need to be defined with your mom as a basis? 06:31:29 :P 06:31:37 my mother is the basis for all things, before her I knew nothing 06:31:45 so what you're saying is 06:31:49 your mother is the first woman you knew? 06:32:00 I did come out her hoo hoo 06:32:11 whether she enjoyed it isnt up to me to speculate 06:32:32 to your hoo hoo i say ho ho! 06:33:26 do python expressions/functions have the strong normalizing property? 06:33:50 Since spooky action at distance is said to propagate at infinite speed, and with relative time, infinite speed tends to cause trouble. 06:34:05 Maybe I should get a tablet instead of an eReader 06:34:11 Then again, maybe not 06:34:26 what about at ludicrous speed? 06:36:11 Ilari: actually, if action at a distance was measured as a function of space over time, then you've already crossed into the 4th... it wouldn't matter if time was the origin or the 4th 06:37:47 ok how about this 06:38:03 In fact, any cause and effect that would need exceeding speed of light => trouble with SR. 06:38:11 what if time was the 0th d, space with the 1st d, and change was the 5th d? 06:38:50 b/c a line would be the 2nd, and a plane would be the 3rd, and full space will be R3 06:38:54 errr R4 06:39:46 because really when we say R4, we're talking about change, not time 06:40:01 time can exist w/o change 06:40:24 anyway, I'm a dork, I ask weird questions and posit strange hypothese 06:40:40 and I say that b/c I'm afraid of being percieved as a crank... 06:42:56 hah, wow, I got banned from #math for asking that question 06:44:23 -!- jcp_xc2 has joined. 06:46:41 Rafajafar: You're talking to guys who posit infinite lists of noncomputable reals here. :P 06:50:38 pikhq: oh that's absolutely possible 06:51:56 damn I got banned from #math 06:51:58 insane 06:52:15 wtf is the point of that channel? 06:54:02 pikhq: why... wouldn't there be an infinite list of noncomputable reals 06:54:38 all you need is one that exists before 1 and 0, then you add one to that and it's also noncomputable... making it an infinite list 06:55:26 Rafajafar: Yeah, the noncomputable reals certainly exist. 06:55:29 furthermore, there's an infinite list of noncomputable reals between 0 and 1... because there are an infinite number of numbers between 0 and 1, and a finite number of computable functions 06:55:37 They're just very irritating to compute. :P 06:56:00 well, I guess there isnt a finite number of computable functions, actually... but it's less infinite 06:56:55 -!- jberryman has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:57:00 That is the correct term, yes. 06:57:15 The computable reals are countable, after all. 06:59:19 pikhq: I'm manic tonight :-P Tell me what else I should think about 06:59:49 Beateth me. 07:00:04 I normally spend time on primes or music theory 07:00:22 Maybe both 07:00:29 Get the Kindle, and buy a good eReader 07:00:42 In case there are titles available for Kindle but not other eReaders 07:00:54 Sgeo_ who me? 07:00:59 Rafajafar, myself 07:01:01 oh 07:01:48 I wish I could read for depth... I can only scan... I scan for information and connect things in my head a few minutes later. Reading for pleasure is out of the question. 07:02:28 Do you really need to read for depth to read for pleasure? 07:02:36 I forget names 07:02:49 Ah 07:02:52 I remember people as "the guy who did this" 07:03:06 makes me a decent programmer... and a great designer (software engineer)... but a terrible reader 07:03:49 only book series I ever could keep up with was the Hitchiker's guide 07:04:27 mostly because the names were so distinct I had no issue keeping up with them, but also because the characters were so distinct, I could track who they were by the sentence structure rather than the "said, so and so" 07:05:15 Sgeo_ who are you reading these days? 07:05:23 Right now, DNA 07:05:28 Mostly Pratchett though 07:07:16 DNA? 07:07:37 you know I was told Discworld was very good 07:08:10 blah holy shit, talking about trivial shit ... need to log... back when I'm not fucking nuts. 07:08:14 -!- Rafajafar has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6/20100115144158]). 07:29:49 -!- jcp_xc2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:36:19 Just finished Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency for the first time 07:41:29 Well, there's at least one book for which Amazon's price is cheaper 07:42:18 http://ebookstore.sony.com/ebook/douglas-r-hofstadter/i-am-a-strange-loop/_/R-400000000000000070218 vs http://www.amazon.com/I-Am-Strange-Loop-ebook/dp/B0014XUCQY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&m=AG56TWVU5XWC2&s=digital-text&qid=1278657602&sr=1-1 07:56:00 Sgeo_: Good, now read it again 07:56:32 How about, maybe tomorrow 07:56:41 Or the next day 07:56:54 I also bought Nation by Terry Pratchett 07:57:05 A bit apprehensive since it's not Discworld, but still 07:57:32 it's good 07:57:44 more serious 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:51 Hm, I think I tend to dislike serious 08:06:26 Although it's weird. The webcomics I read are generally considered to be humorous, but I sometimes read them more for the plot 08:19:22 -!- Gregor has joined. 08:19:37 I'm back, baby! 08:23:42 Is it possible to buy an eBook from Amazon and read it on a non-Kindle device? 08:25:46 What's with the claims that LCDs hurt eyes? 08:25:57 I can stare at my computer screen for hours, and not feel discomfort 08:33:31 -!- tombom has joined. 08:34:41 Why am I not considering waiting for an Android tablet? 08:43:57 My choice is pretty much between the Sony eReader Touch, and the Kobo, I think 08:55:49 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:58:28 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:59:21 -!- coppro has joined. 09:06:20 -!- kdvh has joined. 09:07:24 -!- kdvh has left (?). 09:07:25 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 09:07:37 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 09:11:59 -!- cheater99 has joined. 09:23:42 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:25:34 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:34:48 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:20:52 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 10:21:19 fungot 10:21:20 CakeProphet: mysteries. to the left into an equally silent and still narrower alley with no light at all: and in a brief space i found myself after a time i insisted upon talking nervously and elaborately explaining my condition. i told you longe ago, do not watch him again. 10:32:09 The book-based styles are a bit boredom. 10:34:36 fizzie: I am in awe of this robot sir 10:34:42 lovecraft is nice. 10:36:46 Certainly it's probably what I will be remembered for, after the inevitable robot insurgence. 10:41:42 -!- nooga has joined. 10:42:17 Yay... Found a way to supress those darn infinite objects (scale the scene down by factor of 1000). Results: ~23k frames in ~25 minutes. 10:45:39 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:45:47 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 11:11:38 I've been dabbling more with the Descent rendering thing; just got player location exported from a recorded demo into Blender's animation curves; now I'd need the rotations too. 11:15:26 Now I'm doing Skyroads in fullHD. Sadly no graphics improvements yet. 11:16:50 (other than 4x the resolution). 11:40:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null). 11:49:13 -!- cheater99 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:49:37 -!- augur has joined. 11:56:49 -!- cheater99 has joined. 12:11:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:11:37 -!- augur has joined. 12:40:27 ╲╲╲╲╲╭â”â”â”â”╮╱╱╱╱╱ ╲╲╲╲╲┃┊◒◒┊┃╱╱╱╱╱ â•­â”â”â”â”╯┊╰╯┊╰â”â”â”â”â•® ┃╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮┃ ┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃ ╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯ 12:40:31 nooo paul! D: 12:41:02 ╲╲╲╲╲╭â”â”â”â”╮╱╱╱╱╱ 12:41:02 ╲╲╲╲╲┃┊◒◒┊┃╱╱╱╱╱ 12:41:03 â•­â”â”â”â”╯┊╰╯┊╰â”â”â”â”â•® 12:41:05 ┃╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮╭╮┃ 12:41:07 ┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃┃ 12:41:09 ╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯╰╯ 12:41:12 there we go 12:41:14 according to stephen fry, this is paul the octopus 12:45:01 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:47:11 really bizarre spam: some server I've never heard of went and tagged it as spam, gave a large rundown of the reasons, then attached the original message 12:51:27 ais523, ... is that the subject line? 12:51:37 no 12:51:38 because then yeah bizarre 12:51:59 subject line is [SPAM?] SPAM: 8/7/2010......REMINDER......REPLY ASAP...... 12:52:07 "some server I've never heard of went and tagged it as spam, gave a large rundown of the reasons, then attached the original message" would be a really bizarre subject line of a spam though 12:52:26 so would most of the lines said in this channel 12:52:29 doesn't make it any more plausible 12:53:44 ais523, I once got a spam with a subject line like (don't remember exactly, was quite a long time ago): [-commit rev 1234] 12:54:07 the first few lines were like a svn commit message too 12:54:23 so my spamfilter didn't catch it 12:54:24 it probably /was/ a commit message, someone sent spam to a commit address and it got accepted as a revision somehow 12:55:45 ais523, iirc the project it "faked" was some sf.net one. I don't think they set it up that badly. Plus it didn't come sf.net when you checked headers 12:55:55 or wasn't faking that as sender either iirc 12:56:33 ais523, so that explanation, while neat, doesn't quite seem to hold up 13:07:32 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:45:06 some of the text books for the autumn that I ordered arrived today. There is one book about data structures and algorithms that seems to avoid to be biased to any specific language in it's examples. 13:45:12 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:45:35 when paging through it I spotted examples in lisp, java, C, C++, Modula-2, pseudo code and standard ML 13:52:26 pseudo code seems to be most common, but the chapter on linked lists seems to use java mostly, lisp is mostly in the chapter on trees heh 13:53:33 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 14:01:39 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:06:14 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:27:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:27:41 -!- augur has joined. 14:38:08 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 14:59:27 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:05:34 do python expressions/functions have the strong normalizing property? <-- given that functions can recursive infinitely, i would think they aren't even weakly normalizing 15:05:42 *recurse 15:06:04 actually halting is a prerequisite for either, at least in lambda calculus 15:07:01 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:11:54 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:12:01 -!- augur has joined. 15:28:37 -!- wareya has joined. 15:33:54 oerjan, no they will run out of stack space in python afaik? 15:34:16 that sounds like a very non-abstract thing to do 15:34:22 oerjan, I mean, python doesn't do TCO afaik, thus in practise it can't recurse infinitely 15:35:37 whatever 15:35:50 oerjan, that limitation would probably be hit before both "hardware breaking" and "heat death of universe" :P 15:36:17 * oerjan whatevers AnMaster with the saucepan ===\__/ 15:36:22 hah 15:38:17 oerjan, it can however iterate forever in any "imperative" loop construct 15:39:00 ignoring hardware faults and heat death of universe that is 15:41:07 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:41:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:43:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:45:02 * Sgeo_ tireds 15:45:11 -!- ais523_ has joined. 15:45:29 -!- ais523 has quit (Disconnected by services). 15:45:31 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 15:48:37 Sgeo_, ? 15:50:01 I'm not allowed to use adjectives as a verb instead of grammaticizing properly? 15:50:14 It's allowy. 15:50:36 Or adverbs for that matter? 15:50:36 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:51:28 -!- wareya has joined. 15:51:58 * Sgeo_ tireds <-- tires or tired? 15:52:04 or something else 15:52:09 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 15:52:17 I'm not sure what tireds would even mean 15:53:39 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:53:44 to tired, to be tired. same thing 15:54:07 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:29:04 -!- Sgeo__ has joined. 16:31:43 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:32:49 -!- jberryman has joined. 16:33:59 -!- Gregor has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:44:00 -!- pikhq has joined. 16:49:18 -!- Gregor has joined. 17:22:47 Anyone remember 'Stunts'? That was a cool game. 17:23:33 Oh yeah... 17:29:18 Of course, I'm a sucker for any game with a construction set. 17:29:53 * cpressey would commit unspeakable acts for a construction set in Katamari Damacy. 17:32:46 * Ilari would like to obtain information about tile compression in ROADS.LZS (to make level editor). 17:35:11 There's some sort of Stunts remake, I don't know how good it is. 17:35:32 cpressey: if the acts are unspeakable, how does anyone tell you what they are? 17:35:59 I do remember the original, too: if you jumped and hit a building just right, sometimes the car would "bounce" up until it hit the top of the sky, then slowly "glide" into a corner of the level, then finally drop down. 17:36:07 ais523: They... play Charades? 17:36:24 Maybe let's not go down this road. 17:37:17 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:37:47 Ilari: I've managed to rip the level polygons, textures (texture coords are a bit broken right now) and camera position + partially-working rotation out of Descent 1 datafiles + recorded demo now. 17:38:09 Ilari: Admittedly my task is significantly easier since Parallax released the Descent 1 source code, so I can peek at it. 17:38:16 (It's pretty horrible code, though.) 17:38:22 fizzie: Is demo playback deterministic? You know how to edit it? 17:39:08 It records "this is what you need to render at these positions and in this state" sort of demos, not "this is what the user gave as input" demos, so it's easier to extractify. 17:39:40 Ah... Not that useful... 17:40:12 http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/test.mp4 has a xvidcap-recorded flythrough; the textures are pretty broken at times, and it's just the primary textures (so all decorations and doors and such) are missing, and of course all objects too other than the mine, but at least it's something. 17:40:33 (18 megabytes of video, vlc shows it just fine but mplayer breaks at the beginning.) 17:41:06 It's from Blender's 3d view, not rendered or anything. I don't have any lighting in place yet. 17:41:36 And I'm going to have to redo the materials anyway, 64x64 textures aren't very classy. 17:42:03 [h264 @ 0xdb0120]concealing 3039 DC, 3039 AC, 3039 MV errors 17:42:22 Too bad one probably one can't currently TAS Descent. :-/ 17:42:32 fizzie: VLC also breaks at the beginning. 17:42:42 Deewiant: My VLC (well, the one at work) didn't. 17:42:49 I've got 1.1.0. 17:42:56 It was some earlier version. 17:42:58 Presumably. 17:43:03 mplayer complains about "missing reference picture". 17:43:20 My mplayer complains as above 17:43:27 -!- Zuu has joined. 17:43:40 And then it repeatedly says "AVC: nal size 0", "no frame!", "Error while decoding frame!" 17:43:47 The "ffmpeg" binary at work wasn't supporting libx264, so no H.264 encoding, so I had to use the VLC that was there to convert it from a hundred-megabyte .avi that xvidcap put out. 17:43:53 VLC says "AVC: nal size 0" and "no frame!" as well. 17:44:58 Hrm, VLC 1.0.6 started just fine, but then went to "AVC: nal size 0" problems. 17:44:59 Meh. 17:45:05 Maybe I should rerecord it at home anyway. 17:45:13 Yes, exactly. They both manage a few seconds. 17:45:20 (mplayer and VLC) 17:45:58 For the reference, VLC 1.0.2 at work played it just fine. 17:46:28 Er, well... assuming I tried for more than few seconds. I may have looked at it through with mplayer (which managed after the messed-up beginning) and then just the beginning seconds with VLC. 17:47:02 I'll just go and rerecord it. 17:47:21 Neither mplayer nor vlc get past the messed-up beginning in any way AFAICT 17:47:28 My mplayer at work did. 17:47:44 Possibly different codec versions and so on. 17:47:44 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:47:58 If I fast forward to some later time, mplayer shows a black screen and VLC the frame it was on before fast forwarding 17:50:40 I'll see if I manage to rerecord. It's just that with xvidcap's default settings, I get just 5.07 fps at home; I got the target 10 fps reasonably well at work, but that's a beefier machine. 17:53:10 -!- nooga has joined. 17:53:45 Heh... Write music generator to do the background music of this run (too bad I don't have the "artistic eye" for that)... :-> 17:58:53 Deewiant: Well, I overwrote http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/test.mp4 with a smaller (~3 megabytes) version that does play correctly with mplayer here. 17:59:47 It's not especially smooth, but it'll be ugly anyhow. 18:00:38 You're cheating and flying through walls 18:00:47 Deewiant: It's not a wall, it's a door. :p 18:01:02 Doors are animated "secondary textures" which I don't yet handle. 18:01:59 I'm probably going to turn doors into real objects with animation controls, and then just make the demo "door opening" events twiddle those around. So much to do, for such a completely frivolous reason, though. 18:02:52 -!- Mathnerd314_ has joined. 18:02:57 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:03:04 The HD render is up to ~43.1k frames of about 48.0k (has taken 7.5h). 18:03:11 -!- Mathnerd314_ has changed nick to Mathnerd314. 18:03:52 ais523, you said you used the nwn level editor? I think I hit a wall in how to extract it from the windows installer on the dvd (presumably once that is done I could use use wine) 18:04:19 ais523, so um, how do you go about that. Do you need to use a vm or such and copy files over? 18:04:23 Can't you run the Windows installer under Wine? 18:05:05 fizzie, maybe, I found installers to be kind of messy there, plus it will take a bit of cleaning up I suppose, since I don't want two copies of the whole data of nwn 18:05:06 Deewiant: In case you're disturbingly curious, this is what ends up in a recorded demo: http://sprunge.us/cYLc (just a short one-line overview of each event). 18:05:09 which is rather large 18:05:38 A throwaway ~/.wine directory with (new) default configs might make the cleanup easier. 18:05:51 hm 18:05:59 Assuming the level editor manages to work without the registry entries generated by the installer. 18:06:19 well one could copy those over, since iirc wine uses a flatfile for the registry 18:07:05 Yes, it seems to. You could even diff the "clean" .reg files with after-installation ones to find all changes. 18:07:43 fizzie: That's around 20K (compressed) for a 27-second demo. Not bad, I suppose. 18:08:07 still I hoped there was a simpler way. 18:09:08 Deewiant: If you mean the sprunge.us paste, it leaves a whole lot of details unprinted. The actual (27-second) demo file is 1557507 bytes. 18:09:25 fizzie, demo of what? 18:10:06 fizzie: I guess it still compresses at around the same ratio, so it's still not bad. 18:10:19 AnMaster: A recording of a Descent 1 game session. 18:10:57 Deewiant: Well, it "7z a -mx=9"s into 329284 bytes. 18:11:19 fizzie, genre? 18:11:28 fizzie: Okay, that's slightly bad. 18:12:01 AnMaster: "3D first-person shooter", says Wikipedia. 18:12:38 ah 18:12:42 It's relatively old (released in 1995) for being so actually-really-3D-and-not-just-faking-it. 18:12:53 Also it supported all kinds of freaky serial-port-connected virtual helmets. 18:13:01 All of which failed to be very commercially successful. 18:14:03 Deewiant: What the demo *should* look like is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYeu7-QtX04 18:15:02 Still a ways to go ;-) 18:15:16 -!- jberryman has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:15:47 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:16:25 -!- FireFly has joined. 18:16:54 The speedrun is even more disorienting than the game itself 18:17:59 I always got lost in the game; it's not exactly easy to navigate. There's the "automatically turn level to 'floor'" feature, but it was still a bit confusing sometimes. 18:18:32 Did some multiplayering over modem back then. 18:19:07 * pikhq laughs maniacally. 18:19:31 "In re Bilski" claimed the patent in question was unpatentable because it could be reduced to *mathematical formulae*. 18:19:44 Yes, I always got lost as well. The automap didn't help. 18:20:00 Bitching. There goes all patents that can be represented in a TC language. 18:20:41 AnMaster: I did it by running the Windows installer under WIne 18:20:50 pikhq: ooh, that's a good catch 18:20:56 where in the opinion does it say that? 18:21:28 Deewiant: Was there a map too? I don't remember it at all, but I guess there was. 18:21:37 I'm pretty sure there was. 18:21:43 Maybe only in Descent II. 18:22:11 * Sgeo__ is considering taking Winforms programming 18:22:14 Was it a top-down view or what? Wireframe thing over the whole level? 18:22:16 Will this poison my brain? 18:22:22 yes 18:22:24 It was 3D. 18:22:37 Sgeo__: if you're going that route, do WPF. 18:22:38 So, the latter, I guess. 18:22:57 coppro, the school offers a Winforms course, not a WPF course 18:23:13 fizzie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descent_%28video_game%29#Navigation describes it a bit. 18:23:15 (tip: I was not suggesting you actually take a WPF course) 18:23:16 Unless WPF is a part of Winforms? 18:23:27 take the course if you must 18:23:41 if not, go find a better use of your time than learning how to use a dumb GUI library 18:23:52 realize that this is like taking a course in wxWidgets or GTK 18:23:54 Deewiant: "it isn't uncommon to suffer from nausea and confusion at first" -- especially if you have on a 20 Hz flickery virtual helmet that's tracking head-movement, I suppose. 18:24:06 :-D 18:24:17 coppro, I'm registering very late. Many of the courses are closed out. 18:24:18 ais523, can you share data dir between linux and windows install? 18:24:22 it seems such a waste otherwise 18:24:26 yes, even with symlinks 18:24:34 that's how I got the Linux data dir in the first place 18:24:38 ais523, symlinks to wine? or the other way around? 18:24:47 doesn't matter 18:24:51 hm 18:24:52 Deewiant: I seem to recall my "Wingman Extreme" stick was reasonably good for Descent, because the 4-way hat could be configured to strafe. 18:24:54 Also, I think it would be nice to actually force myself to learn some GUI library 18:25:00 I guess wine doesn't turn symlinks into *.lnk 18:25:05 I've.. never done GUI stuff before. VB doesn't count 18:25:06 I seem to recall I played it using only a keyboard. 18:25:13 AnMaster: I mean Linux symlinks, not Windows ones 18:25:29 Well, there's that one time with PythonCard 18:25:32 ais523, the horror on windows are not symlinks :P 18:25:43 they are like .desktop files rather iirc 18:25:55 AnMaster: Windows /does/ have genuine hardlinks, though 18:25:58 but /only/ to directories 18:26:00 ais523, I know 18:26:04 which is all very strange 18:26:10 (as opposed to Linux hardlinks which can't be to directories, on most FSes) 18:26:53 ais523, hm aren't . and .. like hardlinks? 18:27:03 on the other hand they don't behave like ones when you rm them 18:27:19 AnMaster: they do work a bit like hardlinks, yes 18:27:34 and they increase the link count of the directory they point at 18:27:34 ais523: http://www.groklaw.net/pdf2/BilskiScotus08-964.pdf , page 15. Opinion of the Court. "The concept of hedging, described in claim 1 and reduced to a mathematical formula in claim 4, is an unpatentable abstract idea, just like the algorithms at issue in Benson and Fook." 18:27:42 ugh, not precise enough 18:27:57 ais523, rm -f . doesn't do what you would expect then (create a directory without the . hardlink) 18:27:58 that doesn't say "mathematical formulas are unpatentable", just vaguely implies it 18:28:08 AnMaster: well, obviously, I doubt the FS allows it 18:28:10 and plain unlink() doesn't work on directories iirc 18:28:37 ais523, doesn't /proc do some strange "hardlinks to other fs" thing? 18:28:46 for something 18:28:59 /proc, in many ways, is not a normal filesystem 18:29:19 good point 18:29:20 it is magickal 18:29:50 * Sgeo__ pokes coppro 18:29:59 coppro, where did the k come from? 18:30:11 The class might be a way to force me to actually do GUI stuff 18:30:13 Previously, on page 14; "The Court concluded that the process at issue there was 'unpatentable under SS101, not because it contain[ed] a mathematical algorithm as one component, but because once that algorithm [wa]s assumed to be within the prior art, the application, as a whole, contain[ed] no patentable invention.'" 18:30:16 Sgeo__: I wouldn't recommend it, but if it's the best option available, it probably won't kill you 18:30:37 AnMaster: From a spelling you see in some fantasy works that want to feel that magick is special there 18:30:42 I think the other option is only taking one computer course this semester 18:30:53 Which would drive me absolutely bonkers 18:30:56 tip: it's not, but it looks funny to me 18:30:56 -!- impomatic has joined. 18:31:00 Hi :-) 18:31:05 Also: "[...] while an abstract idea, law of nature, or mathematical formula could not be patented [...]" 18:31:10 oh, also ImageMagick 18:31:16 Bitching. 18:31:27 why is there winemine and a wine notepad 18:31:30 they seem strange 18:31:43 pikhq: Hopefully that will hurt software patents 18:31:46 Patents? Did you see the alleged Shazam patent infringement? 18:31:53 coppro: Hopefully. 18:31:59 just saw an interesting point on Slashdot: the sort of accounting used in Hollywood generally leads to negative profits, thus negative profits per sale 18:32:16 therefore, movie piracy actually makes the film industry money, if you follow their own reasoning 18:32:30 -!- Slereah has set topic: My other car is a cdr | Exciting new features!!! OK not really | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 18:32:33 ais523: O_o 18:32:41 lol 18:32:51 coppro: this is because their reasoning is so screwed up, not any actual cause 18:33:28 ais523, where exactly is the toolkit placed? I don't see any obvious .exe 18:33:29 ~45 560 HD frames in 8 hours... 18:33:46 NWToolset.exe 18:33:50 ais523: What soft of accounting is that? 18:33:51 oh wait, "nwtoolset.exe", how could I miss that 18:33:52 or something like that 18:34:05 Ugh, I need a course "Management Information Systems" 18:34:09 AnMaster: it's still very buggy in Wine, you'll want to save often 18:34:18 but at least it isn't unusable like it was in Wine as of a couple of years ago 18:34:19 Sgeo__: you poor man 18:34:45 ais523, hm, it is truly confusing too 18:34:47 I don't think it would count as enough of a computer course to save my sanity 18:35:23 ais523, where are the docs for it... 18:35:44 AnMaster: I'm not aware of any useful ones, but it didn't take me long to learn 18:36:11 basically: module is the largest unit of anything, module contains areas (which you create using a wizard), with an area open you can use the pane on the right to add things to it 18:36:31 oh wait you are restricted to one tileset per room? I had plans for a nice combination (ruins in wood) 18:36:32 and right-click's used to customize things by adding scripts, etc 18:36:49 yes, one tileset per area, although there are some ruin-like tiles in the forest tileset 18:36:50 what game? 18:36:55 neverwinter nights 1 18:36:58 ah 18:37:05 the only commercial game for Linux I ever purchased 18:37:21 because it's a good game, and commercial games actually being released for Linux are really rare 18:38:09 ais523, you forgot darwinia 18:38:23 AnMaster: I didn't purchase darwinia 18:38:29 oh wait 18:38:29 and "really rare" != "1" 18:38:37 why did I read "purchased" as "released"? 18:38:38 XD 18:38:48 because I said "released" the line after, possibly 18:38:55 maybe 18:39:05 ais523, still which is the tileset I speak of 18:39:17 you may be thinking of Crypt 18:39:19 for the ruins 18:39:33 it's also worth mentioning that the bridge tiles in Crypt and Forest look identical 18:39:42 ais523, not the spooky ones. I decided to start out with "nice dungeon", like that mage in blackwater 18:39:47 or the luskan tower 18:39:49 Castle 18:39:52 ah 18:40:03 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:40:25 Area 001, nice suggestion. Should call it Area 53 18:40:52 wtf, ais523 the size selection, what is the units 18:40:56 it can't be tiles 18:41:02 area tiles 18:41:16 2x2 is more or less the smallest practical 18:41:22 from the CS145 (advanced first-year CS) page at UW: "Your C programs will be created using a text editor. We recommend using Pico, Nano, Vim, or Emacs." 18:41:25 you can just stick a pre-made 2x2 unit down and have yourself a nice room 18:41:29 ais523, eh, so how many tiles is an areatile 18:41:38 AnMaster: what "tiles" are you speaking of? 18:41:49 ais523, how does it work for stuff like ground and placing houses 18:41:53 free positioning? 18:42:16 no 18:42:18 ais523, I somehow assumed it was using tiles somewhere below and hiding it well. that tends to be common 18:42:26 it does use tiles, they're rather large though 18:42:33 ah hm 18:42:36 e.g. some of the tiles in City Exterior have two doors on 18:43:06 ais523, and those are the area tiles? 18:43:13 seems very limited in shapes then 18:43:13 yes 18:43:18 ais523, so port llast could be 16x16? 18:43:21 there's quite a wide selection 18:43:36 port llast is maximum size IIRC, I can't remember offhand if that's 16x16 or 32x32 18:44:14 a typical house on the overworld is 1x2 or 2x2, some are 1x1 18:44:18 ais523, hm how do I load the original game to check out maps there. When starting it it offered me to load various add-ons that came with it. But not the original from what I saw 18:45:01 AnMaster: you see the directory called "nwm"? for each file nwm file in it, e.g. module1.nwm, copy it to the directory called modules with the extension .mod 18:45:14 it's file-extension and file-system based DRM, in a sense 18:45:23 change the directory, change the extension, suddenly you cna open it 18:45:24 ah 18:45:25 *can open it 18:46:03 ouch, does this app have focusing issues... 18:46:17 definitely 18:46:20 try using alt-tab 18:46:44 other bugs: some pop-up menus, if opened using the right mouse button, open twice and only one of the copies ever closes 18:46:49 until you exit the app altogether 18:47:19 and hierarchical lists (those with the [+] signs next to them) go crazy if you hover the mouse over certain areas, getting more and more confused until they eventually segfault 18:47:31 also, every now and then it forgets all the textures making it impossible to see what you're doing 18:48:20 ais523, um, what certain areas for such lists? 18:48:41 AnMaster: generally entries that shouldn't be there 18:48:48 uh 18:48:49 either completely blank entries that appear for no reason, or duplicated entries 18:48:59 okay how do I replace all the wall with some floor hm 18:49:14 generally, just overwrite it with some type of floor, or with corridor 18:49:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:49:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host). 18:49:25 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 18:49:57 ais523, what about test playing it? 18:50:01 Idea: I shall take a web dev course 18:50:15 ais523, okay now it says I can't save because start position is invalid 18:50:21 Or not. 18:50:26 AnMaster: "set start position" is the top-right icon on the right page 18:50:37 and to test-play, save and load in the Linux client 18:50:45 I recommend save-and-quit to help reset stability issues 18:51:31 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:52:40 -!- tombom has joined. 18:53:14 Rendering took 8h20min. 18:53:33 ooh, it finished? 18:53:39 Encoding... 18:54:32 Estmated size: 135MB, ETA 27 minutes. 18:54:35 Why do C coders suck almost universally? 18:54:45 ais523, heh 18:54:51 If you want more sucky coders, look at C++... :-) 18:55:00 ais523, what about adding a door? Doorway I can manage but door? 18:55:01 C++ is inherently impossible to code well, though 18:55:03 pikhq: Are you saying I suck almost universally? 18:55:04 and a monster 18:55:05 AnMaster: doors are an objcet 18:55:06 Wait, I'm not a C coder. 18:55:09 *object 18:55:11 cpressey: No. 18:55:14 But I've written C code. 18:55:22 ais523, somewhere in the list Features/Groups/Terrain? 18:55:25 the right-hand pane, at the top, has a list of all the sorts of things you can add 18:55:31 atm, it's set to area tiles, that's the top-left icon 18:55:37 the row below has, say, monsters, doors, items, etc 18:55:43 pikhq: Never mind, I'm quite confused. 18:55:53 aha 18:56:10 ais523, this UI was designed by someone who didn't plan to release it 18:56:18 aka it works if you know how it works 18:56:27 generally speaking you want to customize monsters, unless their only purpose is to attack the player and die horribly 18:56:30 pikhq: I think the age of the language might have something to do with it. C's old, as it goes. 18:56:37 AnMaster: it only took me about 5 minutes to figure out, it's a pretty easy UI 18:56:47 ais523, hm. 18:56:56 that said, I even managed to figure out the scripting language just from looking at a few pre-existing scripts 18:57:06 ais523, what about NPC with simple convo. Hm I guess I'll try to figure out door first 18:57:13 cpressey: Most code in other languages also sucks pretty poorly. The difference between good and bad code in C is just very, very clear. 18:57:46 AnMaster: for a one-off NPC, you can place them first, then right-click, edit properties, edit conversation 18:58:21 I AM ERROR. 18:58:42 ais523, ah right. Okay I can rotate but I can't pan 18:58:43 wtf 18:59:13 AnMaster: the mouse gesture to pan is to hold down the middle button, then while holding it click the left button, then drag 18:59:18 and yes, I actually discovered that by experiment 18:59:24 urgh 18:59:32 alternatively, you can use the arrow buttons below the map 18:59:41 ais523, that doesn't work well with how I use the middle mouse button 18:59:46 right and middle would be easier 18:59:52 I move my index finger 19:00:07 AnMaster: for all I know it isn't the simplest such gesture, after all I discovered it by experiment 19:01:15 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 19:06:47 cpressey: The worst part is, that was his name in Japanese. 19:06:54 cpressey: They had a guy named Bug, too. 19:11:18 -!- tombom_ has joined. 19:12:05 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:13:34 Updated ETA: 9min, updated size estimate: 126MB. 19:14:32 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:15:06 -!- impomatic has left (?). 19:15:07 Ilari: what was the original file, btw? 19:15:39 ais523: The orginal footage? 19:16:05 yes, or at least, the source of whatever you were rendering and encoding 19:17:33 ais523: Sources: skyroads map data, motion dump + script. 19:17:51 The script gave 2.8GB in 48015 PNGs. 19:18:00 I was mostly interested in what was scripting the motion 19:18:11 The script is written in Lua. 19:18:35 no, as in, what the motion actually was 19:18:45 was it just the camera zooming through the levels? 19:19:20 The motion data is depicted as camera moving (plus some bars for distance, speed, fuel and oxygen). 19:19:55 Motiondata looks like: "12,8265000010,29988,29952,34062,10240,202458,900,12:RA". 19:20:11 what was the source of the motion data? 19:20:17 grr, it's so hard to phrase this question correctly 19:20:29 Game memory while playing back movie. 19:20:43 and that movie was? 19:21:04 Skyroads TAS (third version). 19:21:09 ais523, what about altitude difference, how do you create that 19:21:10 ah, ok 19:21:11 -!- pikhq has joined. 19:21:14 that was the question I was trying to ask 19:21:22 AnMaster: some tilesets have a raise/lower terrain type 19:21:28 left-click to raise, right-click to lower 19:21:34 although you can't lower beyond ground level for some reason 19:21:41 ais523, for indoors stairs and such? 19:21:41 some don't, because altitude-change tiles aren't implemented in them 19:21:49 stairs are a sort of feature 19:21:56 you'll find different sorts of stairs for different situations 19:22:04 like stairs in corridor, stairs at corner of livingroom, etc 19:22:26 ais523, is there an altitude change involved? 19:22:36 no 19:22:47 it's just a tile which happens to be less flat than usual 19:22:51 eh 19:23:12 ais523, what about stairs with platform at top/bottom and then a door a bit further away? 19:23:13 as in, the details of the actual shape of the tiles aren't something the editor bothers with, except to render them 19:23:27 that's how all the stairs work 19:23:34 there's a doorway built-in to the stair tile 19:23:39 with nothing beyond it 19:23:41 ouch 19:23:44 this is meesy 19:23:46 messy* 19:23:52 no, it's actually incredibly simple 19:24:04 the simplest thing that could possibly work, more or less 19:24:29 huh 19:24:32 bbl 19:24:37 you can prove it in-game; find a stairway going upwards, open the door, then rotate the camera 180 degrees so the door doesn't trigger and click on the nearside of the door 19:24:46 you'll end up in a black space with no way to go but back the way you came 19:26:09 Running same kind of render for skyxmas (from second skyxmas TAS). 19:47:18 oerjan isn't here when i need him 19:47:39 oerjan: but functions in python aren't first-order objects 20:00:52 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:08:12 * Sgeo__ decides that cheater99 is drunk or troll 20:17:39 no 20:17:47 just populating my scrollback 20:17:52 so that i don't forget to tell him later 20:33:11 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 20:39:43 -!- charlls has joined. 20:43:05 I meant the comment about Python's functions 20:43:37 Unless by "first-order" you mean something other than first-class 20:54:09 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:56:18 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:57:28 -!- augur has joined. 20:57:50 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:00:26 -!- relet has joined. 21:09:53 -!- cheater99 has joined. 21:14:26 Can we make it that the file descriptors in the "fd" directory can be removed, created, and change symbolic links, that you can change file descriptors of a process in that way? 21:15:08 zzo38: Except those links are pretty magic... 21:16:12 Ilari: Like what kind of magic? 21:16:37 Can it be done, you can have a file /proc/$$/kill that if you write anything to that file it sends a signal to the process? 21:16:50 And that you can change permissions on the file to set who can send signals? 21:16:51 zzo38: you'd probably have to change the kernel a bit 21:17:02 changing permissions would be a lot harder, proc isn't a normal sort of filesystem 21:17:03 zzo38: Those links point to inodes, not really files. 21:17:21 the problem is, that as soon as a process stops running, its proc directory disappears 21:17:35 so changing it permanently wouldn't really make a lot of sense 21:17:45 you have a very Plan9y sort of idea there, though 21:19:17 zzo38: Very Plan9y. 21:19:39 Also, yeah, all of /proc is pretty magical. 21:24:46 You wouldn't change it permanently, of course! 21:25:28 If the links point to inodes instead of to files, then the procfs should convert it once it is added? 21:26:40 There is /proc/$$/environ but maybe there can be /proc/$$/env/ directory for each environment variable one file? 21:27:10 And also a directory /proc/$$/9p/ which contains a filesystem that the process program can create itself. 21:28:36 And library function calls for X and stuff, that you can use a function call to add a predefined directory into /proc/$$/9p/ such as a directory that X can provide to send window message, that widget sets can provide to change/read values, etc. 21:29:10 And the program can have its own files in /9p/ as well such as if you have FTP client that the /9p/ directory contains the directories and files from the computer you connected to 21:31:49 And a new signal SIGVAP to cause it to remove a process and free its memory, unconditionally (cannot be caught or ignored), and does nothing else (so SIGCHLD is not sent to its parent process, etc) 21:36:32 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:37:40 -!- jcp has joined. 21:37:40 -!- jcp has quit (Changing host). 21:37:40 -!- jcp has joined. 21:39:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:41:17 Where do I get a printout of CWEB? 21:44:36 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:48:58 -!- FireFly has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:16:25 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:16:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:49:01 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:49:28 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 22:54:07 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:16 -!- augur has joined. 22:58:48 -!- FireFly has joined. 23:00:23 -!- jberryman has joined. 23:02:37 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:02:43 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:05:15 -!- charlls has quit (Quit: Saliendo). 23:08:22 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:17:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:18:08 -!- augur has joined. 23:35:54 -!- calamari has joined. 23:35:59 hi 23:36:14 Hi calamari 23:36:20 hey Chris 23:36:32 how goes the migration? 23:37:10 Keeping my head above water. 23:37:37 I have discovered that I have no love for AT&T. 23:37:57 How's it going with you? Did they pick you for jury duty? 23:37:58 does anyone? they just wanted the iphone 23:38:10 nope.. would have been a good one too 23:38:36 guy was accused of possessing and transporting meth 23:38:55 but it was inevitable I wouldn't be picked because they wouldn't want a libertarian on the jury 23:39:15 hahaha 23:39:18 That could make things difficult, I suppose. 23:39:24 because they'd end up with a hung jury 23:40:28 that would be great 23:40:41 I get caught with meth and I end up getting a mistrial 23:41:36 thing is, drug dealers (at least if they have any sense) also hate libertarians.. because legalizing drugs would mean they were out of a job 23:41:45 lol 23:42:07 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:42:14 I'm aware; I had a weed dealer living in my house for a while, and he joked about that all the time. 23:42:47 did he actually make much $? 23:43:04 He wasn't rich, but he got enough to sustain himself. 23:43:29 He sold food that he bougth with foodstamps to his friends, so he must have had plenty to eat. 23:43:39 bought* 23:45:12 okay this 4x4x4 cube is too easy now, need to get a 5x5x5 23:45:49 calamari: Are there any tutorials you can recommend for getting started with Atari 2600 coding? 23:46:03 oh yeah.. who is that wanted to create his own os? 23:46:28 cpressey: ooh, thinking of writing a game? 23:46:39 calamari: alise? At least? (Maybe me, except not really?) :) 23:47:07 Well, thinking of writing... something with colorful blocks... at least to start. 23:47:15 does she have the atari 2600 basic programming cartridge? 23:47:25 definitely a classic :P 23:47:35 I think you can enter like 6 lines of code 23:47:37 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:47:53 I know someone who's trying to write an OS to run on N64 emulators 23:47:59 from scratch 23:48:07 To be clear, it's me who wants to code something for Atari 2600 (not in basic though) and alise who wants to write an OS (presumably *not* for the Atari 2600.) 23:48:08 mostly in assembler 23:48:44 argh I really need to fix my webpage 23:49:02 looking for those links for you Chris 23:49:34 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:50:09 Thanks. Well, I'm looking at the tutorials listed on http://www.atariage.com/2600/programming/index.html to start. 23:50:42 here was a game I started but didn't finish due to not being able to get the paddle motion right http://kidsquid.99k.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=radialpong 23:51:15 When I learned that there is no "bitmap" for the VCS (that you have to write a display routine that manipulates the raster rather directly), I decided I had to write *something* for it, some day. 23:51:17 but it shows step by step as I discovered things and fixed bugs, so maybe it'll help? 23:51:41 yeah it's not the easiest system to program for 23:52:00 The earlier versions will probably help a lot as examples, yes. 23:53:23 Especially if I can compile it and hack around with it a bit. 23:54:09 what are you hoping to write? 23:55:05 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:55:27 note the link to the stella mailing list.. 23:55:34 calamari: I really don't know yet :) 23:55:47 http://www.biglist.com/lists/stella/archives/ 23:56:03 Ooh, thanks. 23:56:08 do you already know 6502? 23:56:35 Yes. I wrote a 2K game for the Commodore 64 last year (well, converted an old BASIC game to 6502). 23:56:56 http://catseye.tc/projects/bescape2k/