←2010-07-10 2010-07-11 2010-07-12→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:06:41 <Ilari> Heh, first frame Satellite Road 3 exit is visible: #13377. Last frame: #14078. So ~700 frames, which is about 11.6s. In that time, the ship moves 70 tiles. So structures are visible at least 70 tiles out...
00:21:33 <AnMaster> Ilari, upload these please
00:22:52 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
00:24:30 <Ilari> Those frames are nothing special. Actually larger structures are visible 120+ tiles out.
00:24:32 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:25:15 <Ilari> (in that case, the structures were 1 unit wide, 2 units high and couple units long blocks).
00:25:42 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
00:25:54 -!- SevenInchBread has changed nick to CakeProphet.
00:27:06 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Bye).
00:29:13 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:29:20 -!- augur has joined.
00:36:28 -!- Gregor-W has quit (Quit: Page closed).
00:36:59 <fizzie> Heh, I *was* wondering why the texture selection looked a bit strange; turns out there's two more levels of indirection from "texture numbers" to actual bitmap indices.
00:37:00 -!- jberryman has joined.
00:39:27 <fizzie> Now they look a lot more sensible: http://zem.fi/~fis/bots.jpg
00:39:44 <fizzie> (Though the reactor isn't actually supposed to be lurking there.)
00:49:47 -!- wareya has changed nick to wareya_.
00:49:50 -!- wareya_ has changed nick to wareya.
01:24:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, timeout
01:24:37 <AnMaster> ah now it works
01:24:42 <AnMaster> looks nice
01:27:27 <Ilari> Second round of "spot the exit pipes". 5-3 this time. Start: #19066. End: #20196. So about 1130 frames (110+ tiles).
01:29:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
01:33:26 <AnMaster> Ilari, what is the goal and such in that game
01:33:42 <AnMaster> I never played it, and since you said levels where hard I'm unlikely to
01:35:45 <Ilari> Skyroads? Make to exit pipe and drive through it without crashing your ship (too hard), falling off the road, running out of time, running out of fuel, running into dead end or touching burning block.
01:36:23 <Ilari> Kosmonaut had some additional ways to die (and funny messages when you failed).
01:36:58 <ais523> aren't burning blocks effectively like gaps in the floor?
01:37:01 <ais523> or is there a difference?
01:37:08 <ais523> (apart from glitch-bouncing on the burning ones?)
01:37:55 <Ilari> I don't think there's other difference. In fact, locking algorithm treats burning blocks the same as gaps (something I exploit in one level).
01:38:52 -!- Zuu has joined.
01:39:52 <Ilari> To do X5-2 and X10-3 at full speed, one needs to really glitch the burning block.
01:40:59 <Ilari> Basically the ship bounces from the burning block (but game doesn't recognize it) and then jump is done off burning block.
01:41:01 <GreaseMonkey> what's this?
01:41:24 <Zuu> its grease!
01:41:27 <GreaseMonkey> 'lo
01:41:30 <Zuu> you've got it all over you
01:41:32 <GreaseMonkey> but yeah, what game is this?
01:41:47 <Ilari> GreaseMonkey: Skyroads.
01:41:50 <GreaseMonkey> hmmkay
01:41:55 <Ilari> GreaseMonkey: Actually, Xmas special of it.
01:41:58 <Zuu> oh skyroad! i remember that!
01:42:04 <Zuu> It was an awesome game :D
01:43:29 <Zuu> it was crazy when you had just played a map where you jump really high, and then begin to play a map where your ship barely jumps at all :P
01:43:50 <Ilari> Its amazing how badly you can destroy The Earth road 3 (the infamous "ship is leaking!" level) with frame-perfect play. In fact, you don't even have to lose a frame there.
01:44:10 <GreaseMonkey> what are the keys for this?
01:44:12 <Ilari> 7-1 had lowest possible gravity (100), and 7-2 had highest (1700, NO JUMPING AT ALL).
01:44:30 <Ilari> GreaseMonkey: Arrows and space, IIRC.
01:44:33 <GreaseMonkey> ok
01:44:58 <Ilari> GreaseMonkey: And then there's P (found that by trying) and ESC.
01:45:20 <Zuu> actually, isnt it only the left/right arrow
01:45:33 <Zuu> or did you have the ability to control speed?
01:45:36 <Ilari> Up/down => Acceleate/decelerate.
01:45:40 <Zuu> ah
01:45:48 <Ilari> Xmas special had 1600 gravity, which was just enough to jump one block.
01:45:50 <Zuu> Sooo so long ago i played that game ^^
01:46:26 <Ilari> TASing those games has gotten to the point where even race conditions are abused.
01:46:31 <Zuu> I dont think i ever tried no special edition
01:47:33 <Ilari> Many times when TASing Skyxmas, I was like "WTF? Did they really expect somebody to make through this in realtime???".
01:48:49 <GreaseMonkey> wait how do you TAS it?
01:49:52 <Zuu> tas?
01:49:55 <AnMaster> Ilari, you made it through in real time ever?
01:50:05 <AnMaster> Zuu, tool assisted speedrun
01:50:15 <Zuu> and what does that_ mean?
01:50:17 <Ilari> I have made through 28 of 30 Skyroads levels and 3 of 30 Skyxmas levels in realtime.
01:50:18 <AnMaster> yeah crazy
01:50:51 <Zuu> AnMaster: is it a hack to slow it down?
01:50:54 <Ilari> (From Skyroads everything except Druidia 2 and 3, and from Skyxmas only snowbounds).
01:51:41 <Ilari> Zuu: Play it frame at a time with ability to undo mistakes. In the end, one gets single play through it as result.
01:52:04 <Zuu> :/
01:52:11 <GreaseMonkey> Ilari: what tools?
01:52:16 <Zuu> sounds like an incredibly boring way to play a game
01:52:35 <ais523> Zuu: it's more for fun in watching the final result, than in playing it, I expect
01:52:45 <Zuu> ah, makes sense
01:53:38 <Ilari> GreaseMonkey: Usually those refer to savestates and frame advance (through there are others).
01:53:52 <GreaseMonkey> no i mean specific tools
01:54:40 <AnMaster> Ilari, aren't there automated speedruns. I seem to remember zelda oot with a tool to calculate optimal paths over the terrain
01:54:51 <AnMaster> that would require no human input for those bits
01:55:29 <Ilari> Yeah, there's scripting too.
01:55:48 <AnMaster> just a set of "goto, x,y,z" "climb to x,y,z" "go to x,y,z", "hit green button", ...
01:56:20 <Ilari> And then there's TASes like Lunar Ball that have way more computer-generated input than human-generated.
01:56:29 <AnMaster> Ilari, oh?
01:56:46 <AnMaster> Ilari, was that the one that modified randomness to generate the end of the game object next to you?
01:56:50 <Ilari> All those shot angles were caluclated.
01:56:55 <AnMaster> ah not that one
01:57:21 <Ilari> Nope, and that one was obsoleted, the current version generates the end of game object straight under you.
01:57:28 <AnMaster> Ilari, haha
01:57:40 <AnMaster> Ilari, that's even better
01:58:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:58:28 -!- augur has joined.
01:58:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:58:40 -!- augur has joined.
01:58:50 <AnMaster> night
01:59:10 <ais523> night
01:59:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:59:15 -!- augur has joined.
02:00:11 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:00:15 -!- augur has joined.
02:16:48 -!- jberryman has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
02:33:02 -!- FireFly|n900 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:42:12 -!- Gregor has joined.
02:55:52 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
03:02:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
03:03:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
03:26:57 <Gregor> pikhq: DOOD AUTOJOIN #MICROCOSM YAJERK
03:39:06 -!- zzo38 has joined.
03:39:44 <zzo38> *Finally*, I managed to figure out how to make Enhanced CWEB to print out the correct line numbers! At least I could do it in one day.
03:44:44 -!- Azkar has joined.
03:44:51 -!- bab has joined.
03:52:03 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:53:49 -!- coppro has joined.
03:54:01 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
03:57:07 -!- Azkar has left (?).
04:13:53 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
04:22:34 -!- coppro has joined.
04:28:36 <zzo38>
04:38:57 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
04:50:42 -!- Gregor has joined.
04:52:08 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
04:54:29 <ais523> hmm, you know how Python does multiline comments?
04:54:35 <ais523> JavaScript is now using the same technique for /pragmas/
04:55:00 <zzo38> I don't know how Python does multiline comments
04:55:00 <coppro> no
04:55:04 <ais523> ECMAScript 5 has a pragma to be stricter
04:55:08 <ais523> "use strict";
04:55:23 <ais523> (multiline comments in Python are normally done by trapping them inside strings and throwing away the result)
04:55:41 <coppro> ...
04:56:00 <coppro> ais523: oh, docstrings, right
04:56:14 <coppro> but, seriously, pragmas in strings. wtf
04:56:27 <zzo38> OK, that is like, I have never done it. I have never written any programs in Python other than these: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/PySol/ruleset/
04:56:28 <ais523> it does have a certain horrible logic to it
04:56:51 <zzo38> Maybe it is done that way for compatibility?
04:56:54 <coppro> what if you evaluate a function in no context and it returns that string
04:57:13 <zzo38> Yes I can think of that too, it probably isn't supposed to do that!!!??
04:57:51 <ais523> yes, it's for compatibility
04:57:57 <zzo38> Maybe it should require you put a minus sign before the string, in a statement by itself, might help a little bit?
04:58:00 <ais523> coppro: doesn't trigger the pragma, it's lexical
04:58:12 <zzo38> Like: -"use strict";
04:58:21 <coppro> _Caring _About _Compatibility _Too _Much _Is _Dumb
04:58:42 <ais523> CACTMID?
04:58:46 <coppro> (although ECMAScript is a speical case)
04:58:50 <coppro> ais523: _______
04:59:03 <ais523> oh, it's a C99 reference
04:59:17 <coppro> yeah
05:01:26 <zzo38> Perhaps load some of these files tell me if you like this game or not
05:01:47 <pikhq> _Especially _As _Posix _Says _Screw _The _Rules _Anyways.
05:04:08 <zzo38> Maybe I will add in more changes and then release "Enhanced CWEB version 0.1"
05:04:50 <coppro> I'm honestly surprised restrict was made a keyword
05:05:26 <zzo38> Do you mean in C?
05:05:36 <coppro> yes
05:05:53 <zzo38> I don't know how commonly used it is
05:06:15 <zzo38> But if you don't like it to be a keyword, you can write #define restrict restrict_
05:06:36 <coppro> lol
05:06:41 <ais523> coppro: it's for an important reason, it makes C99 as expressive as FORTRAN
05:06:53 <ais523> the numerical calculations people were looking for something to migrate to
05:06:55 <coppro> ais523: I mean rather than having <stdrestrict.h>
05:06:58 <ais523> and C99 had a few changes to appease them
05:07:09 <ais523> coppro: ah, with _Restrict the keyword?
05:07:13 <coppro> yeah
05:07:37 <coppro> I'm not a fan of the C committee because of that
05:08:29 <pikhq> For some reason they did all the legwork of making C90 code work, and then they missed an obvious point.
05:10:34 <coppro> yeah
05:12:45 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
05:16:06 -!- wareya_ has joined.
05:16:38 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
05:17:20 <zzo38> Now that I have TeX, maybe it means I can make a file for Icoruma and Icochash to send output to TeX file, as well
05:18:02 <zzo38> Every time you pick up a club card you have to say "It has three dots!" and then be crazy.
05:18:18 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
05:19:16 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
05:27:19 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
05:27:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:28:21 -!- augur has joined.
05:32:29 <Gregor> Wooooh
05:32:35 <Gregor> Got new ties from SolidColorNeckties.com!
05:32:47 <Gregor> Which is like my favorite bizarrely-specific site EVARS!
05:33:08 <ais523> wow, I have so much trouble finding solid-colour ties
05:33:12 <ais523> I may have to look at that site
05:33:29 <Gregor> I can't decide if you're kidding or not X-D
05:33:39 <Gregor> But if you're not, I highly recommend it!
05:34:07 -!- Zuu has joined.
05:34:07 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
05:34:07 -!- Zuu has joined.
05:34:09 <Gregor> I have: Lime green (this thing will BURN RETINAS), purple, and now pink and peacock blue - ALL OF THEM ARE AWESOME.
05:34:14 <ais523> Gregor: I'm not
05:34:17 <pikhq> It's actually a difficult thing to find in stores. They prefer somewhat shitty patterns.
05:34:21 <ais523> although I normally go for shades of blue
05:34:27 <pikhq> Gregor: You like eye-burning don't you.
05:34:30 <Gregor> pikhq: I DO!
05:35:04 <coppro> pink ties are important
05:35:29 <coppro> (http://www.mathsoc.uwaterloo.ca/images/logo.jpg should explain why)
05:35:32 <Gregor> I have ... uhh, three ... more than I have pink shirts to wear them with, but then I usually pair pink ties with purple, or green if I'm feeling like murder.
05:35:41 <Gregor> OHYEAH
05:35:45 <Gregor> I remember the Waterloo pink ties!
05:36:41 <pikhq> Gregor: I'm not sure whether I want to stab you or high-five you for the idea of green and pink.
05:36:48 <coppro> Gregor: remember?
05:37:07 <Gregor> coppro: Last time I wore a pink tie to a conference people asked if I was from Waterloo :P
05:37:10 <Gregor> And I went all "huh?"
05:37:33 <coppro> Gregor: ah
05:38:25 <Gregor> pikhq: Green and pink, plus I have an AWESOME sort of electric blue hat (not yet on the hat site since I bought it this summer) to go with it!
05:38:33 <Gregor> It's an outfit that LITERALLY KILLS PEOPLE.
05:38:39 <Gregor> OK maybe not.
05:38:43 <Gregor> But it's pretty awesomebad :P
05:38:47 <coppro> pics or it didn't happen
05:38:53 <ais523> Gregor: you're one of the few people likely to turn up in this channel that could actually pull that off
05:38:57 * pikhq is actually laughing out loud.
05:39:21 <Gregor> coppro: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30595531&l=c65d70c86e&id=1055580469 closest I have a picture of
05:39:33 <coppro> that's actually not that bad
05:40:09 <Gregor> I have to laugh at the speed with which I brought up a green-and-pink combo picture :P
05:40:21 <Gregor> Ah yes, my bad style is known far and wide! I didn't even take that picture :P
05:40:36 <pikhq> coppro: That's a pink-on-yellow tie you know.
05:40:48 <Gregor> No
05:40:48 <pikhq> Gregor: Which CA was that again?
05:40:53 <Gregor> That tie is pink-on-other-shade-of-pink
05:40:56 <Gregor> That's 30
05:41:02 <pikhq> Ah.
05:41:03 <ais523> Gregor: actually, green and blue is considered the worst color combo around
05:41:08 <coppro> CA?
05:41:10 <ais523> at least green and pink has a shock factor to it
05:41:12 <ais523> green and blue just looks bad
05:41:20 <pikhq> coppro: Cellular automaton.
05:41:23 <coppro> oh
05:41:24 <Gregor> I don't usually combine green and blue :P
05:41:41 <Gregor> I try to go for either actually matching fairly well, or mismatching so horribly nobody can possibly think it wasn't intentional.
05:41:43 <pikhq> ais523: Depends on the shades of blue and the context.
05:41:58 <ais523> pikhq: well, yes
05:42:05 <pikhq> Typical clothing colors, though?
05:42:08 <pikhq> Ugh.
05:42:13 <ais523> I meant clothing
05:42:25 <Gregor> Oh that's it. Now I have to wear a green shirt with a blue tie tomorrow :P
05:42:27 <Gregor> *rummages*
05:42:28 <Gregor> ;)
05:42:39 <pikhq> Gregor: Congrats on defeating the dress code.
05:42:55 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
05:43:01 <Gregor> BTW, the tie in that photo is easily the best tie ever.
05:43:27 <pikhq> Clearly.
05:43:29 <Gregor> http://www.zazzle.com/rule_30_tie-151512244542121452 OMG SO MUCH AWESOME
05:43:59 <coppro> I like the recommended ties
05:44:24 <Gregor> Oh pff at you :P
05:44:35 <pikhq> Gregor: http://www.zazzle.com/classy_rule_110_tie-151952160559470088 This is actually a good-looking tie.
05:45:13 <Gregor> Somebody in this channel recommended I make that after I showed the yellow-and-dark-purple rule 110 tie.
05:45:17 <Gregor> But I totally don't wear black ties.
05:45:19 <Gregor> That's rife with lame.
05:47:34 * Sgeo wears a cyan tie in AW
05:48:02 <Gregor> Aardvark Wagon
05:48:36 <coppro> Sgeo: I repeat the necrophilia comment
05:49:03 <Sgeo> coppro, you going to keep repeating that comment even after it's stale and dead?
05:49:16 <Gregor> Apparently.
05:49:19 <coppro> yes
05:49:26 <Gregor> In that case I can toootally still call you pooppy.
05:49:30 <coppro> because that's how I feel
05:49:43 <coppro> the fact that someone quoted me is irrelevant, imo
05:50:24 * Sgeo was trying to make a joke :/
05:50:34 <pikhq> Gregor: Have you considered bow ties?
05:50:41 <Gregor> I have exactly one bow tie.
05:50:45 <Gregor> It's purple and gold.
05:50:51 <Gregor> And in spite of the fact that it's awesome, *eh*
05:51:11 <pikhq> Wear with top hat.
05:51:16 <Gregor> I mean, the number one reason to wear a necktie is to have a brightly-colored arrow pointing at one's crotch at all times.
05:51:19 <Gregor> And a bow-tie just doesn't do it.
05:52:00 <pikhq> I repeat, wear with top hat.
05:52:20 <Gregor> I heard you the first time :P
05:52:24 <Gregor> FINE
05:52:36 <Gregor> Next time the top hat is voted for (which will be in late-August at the earliest) I'll wear the bow tie.
05:52:44 <Gregor> Because my top hat is 2,000 miles away :P
05:52:53 <Gregor> Not my top hat :(
05:52:59 <Gregor> My top hat is showing its age.
05:53:04 <Gregor> I need a new one, but they're all so damned expensive.
05:53:13 <pikhq> Yes, but it is the best kind of hat.
05:53:34 <Gregor> I disagree and cite the fez.
05:53:51 <pikhq> Okay, okay. I'll grant you that.
05:53:55 <Gregor> :P
05:53:59 <pikhq> However, the top hat is a highly awesome hat.
05:53:59 <Gregor> Which is LIKE a top hat.
05:54:13 <pikhq> And you can wear it in formal contexts and be *perfectly* valid in doing so!
05:54:31 <Gregor> I'm never in formal contexts :P
05:54:50 <Gregor> And if I was, I would be exactly to code while actually being crazy and flamboyant and totally not formal at all.
05:54:50 <pikhq> You can also just look awesome with it.
05:55:06 <Gregor> Hair down, green striped jacket with a yellow shirt and pink tie and a red fez!
05:55:09 <Gregor> Now THAT'S formal!
05:55:20 <pikhq> Alternately, wear white tie formal dress.
05:55:33 <pikhq> (note: only if you have money to spare. Needs tailoring.)
05:56:11 <Gregor> Now I think I'm going to wear blankets.
05:56:14 <Gregor> While sleeping?
05:56:23 <pikhq> You'll note that I'm a fan of archaicisms. ;)
05:56:31 <Gregor> Only no blankets because it's friggin' hot in here.
05:56:33 <Gregor> *zzz*
05:56:45 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Atat%C3%BCrk_in_white_tie.jpg And you cannot deny that this looks more awesome than a tux.
05:59:37 * Sgeo tries to update his mental model of awsistors to reflect the fact that they reside in multiple universes that can interact
06:09:46 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
06:10:23 <oerjan> so basically you need a more awsome model?
06:13:08 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
06:14:21 -!- augur has joined.
06:14:25 <Sgeo> heh
06:16:39 <zzo38> Now you have to learn this game too http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/screen.png or perhaps you prefer the sequel game? The sequel game even has some self-referencing and talking tree and talking spider, and library with top secret basement, globe you spin and find country nobody has ever heard of, and other stuff but sequel game is not finished being made yet
06:20:29 <Sgeo> Crap, I accidentally pasted part of a legal document into a chat room
06:21:38 <zzo38> Sgeo: What type of legal document was it? Is that secret?
06:22:05 <Sgeo> It was something that I don't think should have been revealed to the world. I don't _think_ it needed to be top secret, but I'm not sure
06:23:35 <Gregor> Can't sleep. Clowns will eat me.
06:23:41 <Sgeo> Just told my dad, he's mostly worried about the fact that my last name was in there
06:24:14 <Gregor> Keep us apprised of all developments in this matter.
06:25:42 <zzo38> Can you play a strange time signature 54/32 and playing 12 notes at once
06:26:06 <Sgeo> That reminds me, what's the difference between 4/4 and 2/2?
06:27:04 <Gregor> Sgeo: Technically there is no difference. But the implication of using 2/2 is that you should be keeping two beats per measure, not four.
06:27:19 <Gregor> Sort of like how 6/8 is two beats per measure, even though it's mathematically equivalent to 3/4's three beats.
06:30:13 <zzo38> 6/8 is called compound time, so you count differently. But the same amount of notes fill up a bar as 3/4 it is same as same fractional
06:30:47 <Gregor> Didn't I just say that? :P
06:31:13 <zzo38> Almost
06:31:34 <zzo38> But 6/8 is like two groups of three
06:34:31 <Gregor> And 12/8 is four groups of three 8-D :P
06:48:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
06:49:08 -!- augur has joined.
06:50:02 <zzo38> Now play this music http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img4/Death_waltz.jpg
06:50:23 <coppro> O_O
06:50:31 <pikhq> Ah, the Death Waltz.
06:50:48 <coppro> "Arranged by Accident"
06:53:57 <Sgeo> Surely it can be done by computer
06:54:09 <coppro> no
06:54:27 <coppro> that music does not make /sense/
06:54:54 <coppro> such as the bar with three clefs; one in 66/66 time, one in 66/1 time, and one in 1/66 time
06:55:44 <pikhq> I once heard a professed performance of it.
06:55:59 <Sgeo> gradually become agitated"
06:56:01 <pikhq> Well, of something that consisted of all invalid portions of musical notation removed before performance.
06:56:22 <pikhq> Still: it's a freaking joke.
06:56:28 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx02KOGhjes ?
06:56:31 <coppro> "release the penguins"
06:56:53 <Sgeo> n/m
06:56:54 <Sgeo> "Please change the title, since this is not John Stump's "Faerie's Aire and Death Waltz".
06:56:54 <Sgeo> It's an arrangement of the beloved theme of Flandre Scarlet from a Touhou game, and the arranger tried to approach John's musical joke piece in terms of complexity and note density (and got quite close).
06:56:55 <Sgeo> But the title is still wrong."
06:56:55 <pikhq> coppro: I believe that is actually valid.
06:56:57 <ais523> pikhq: what did it sound like?
06:57:03 <coppro> pikhq: yeah
06:57:06 <zzo38> Double-double sharps. Repeat marks with nothing to repeat. Twenty-three notes at once. Extremely wide dynamics. Different time signatures in different voices. Different key signatures in different voices.
06:57:10 <pikhq> ais523: Insanity.
06:57:25 <Sgeo> What I linked is still fun
06:57:30 <pikhq> Yes.
06:58:37 <pikhq> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Faeries-aire.gif Better copy.
06:59:31 <zzo38> Yes that is a better copy
06:59:33 <Sgeo> Play ball!
07:00:10 <ais523> hmm, I'm reminded vaguely of Desert Bus
07:00:31 <zzo38> http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/img_0E/deathwaltz2.jpg
07:00:39 -!- Halph has joined.
07:00:54 * Sgeo wonders how possible it would be to capture the notes without the.. nonsense
07:02:00 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
07:02:00 -!- Halph has changed nick to coppro.
07:02:15 * Sgeo is now known as necrophile
07:02:32 <coppro> lol
07:03:17 <pikhq> http://lostinthecloud.wordpress.com/2010/03/13/john-stump-composer-of-faeries-aire-and-death-waltz/
07:03:24 <pikhq> By the guy's nephew.
07:04:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
07:05:44 <coppro> neat
07:05:50 <coppro> I love the Motoring Accident
07:06:12 <Sgeo> Is it playable?
07:06:14 <pikhq> 'Tis nice.
07:06:30 <pikhq> Sgeo: Not on the instruments it asks for.
07:07:23 <zzo38> I have never seen key signatures with double-flats (or double-naturals) before
07:08:21 <Sgeo> "This is actually unplayable"
07:08:28 <Sgeo> Can any of it be played on computer?
07:08:51 <coppro> Sgeo: Some of it could
07:09:03 <Sgeo> o.O at "Start Over"
07:09:07 <pikhq> Parts.
07:09:33 <pikhq> Actually, you could get all the notes in.
07:09:41 <coppro> yeah
07:09:46 <pikhq> Just cacaphony.
07:10:16 <coppro> you couldn't get the instructions though
07:10:38 <Sgeo> Surely you could make a video though..
07:10:38 <pikhq> I do like that it ends with "I've got blisters on my fingers".
07:11:24 <coppro> (although only a computer could switch violins in a sixteenth-rest)
07:11:41 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkjX7Q-b1IM <3 the comments
07:11:52 <pikhq> coppro: ... Or have a chord spanning multiple octaves. On a violin.
07:12:03 <coppro> pikhq: it's not a solo
07:12:10 <coppro> didn't you read the text?
07:12:22 <pikhq> coppro: Ah right.
07:12:34 <pikhq> Still too few instruments.
07:12:47 <ais523> a really good score should have all sorts of implausible requests for the instruments too
07:12:54 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCgT94A7WgI
07:12:59 <ais523> like "the violin must be played with a crowbar at this point"
07:13:20 <pikhq> "Use the most expensive violin that exists at the time of this performance."
07:13:39 <pikhq> Followed by "Smash the violin. You're a rock star now."
07:13:53 <ais523> ugh, I don't like mindless vandalism
07:14:05 <coppro> "If you are a 2nd Violinist, please do not use a 1st Violin. Use the 2nd Violin you were issued."
07:14:05 <ais523> what about "fold this score into an origami drum and hit it as follows:"
07:14:13 <coppro> "
07:14:18 <coppro> *"Wet reed"
07:14:26 <pikhq> ais523: Okay, okay.
07:14:37 <coppro> that one sounds difficult on a violin
07:15:00 <pikhq> "Flip page upside down and continue playing from the new top of page."
07:15:10 <ais523> pikhq: Bach actually wrote a piece like that
07:15:13 <coppro> I like the the giant notes to be played mezzoforte
07:15:15 <ais523> well, it was the same both ways up
07:15:21 <pikhq> ais523: Nice.
07:15:25 <coppro> oh, there's fortemezzopiano
07:15:52 <coppro> I like the frog
07:16:04 <pikhq> Frog should be an instrument.
07:16:24 <Sgeo> Wait, which song are we on?
07:16:37 <ais523> hmm, the score should also have a TC control structure, shouldn't it?
07:16:38 <coppro> the same one
07:16:47 <pikhq> In a Minor (Motoring Accident)
07:16:50 <ais523> "swap your instrument with the player to the right, then repeat if you just played a c"
07:18:08 <coppro> ais523: yes
07:18:27 <ais523> repeat marks should happen in different places for different players, too
07:18:45 <pikhq> ais523: Instant round!
07:18:49 <coppro> that's true
07:19:04 <coppro> but that seems like something a shrewd composer would actually do
07:19:52 <coppro> I missed the Death Waltz bit where the upper staff gets a note below the bottom staff on ledger lines :D
07:19:57 <ais523> insane music might work better looking vaguely plausible than implausible
07:20:14 <pikhq> coppro: How's about having an RNG determine where you go to for a coda?
07:23:38 <zzo38> Three string instruments, one tuned to 12-TET, one to 12-JI, one to Bohlen-Pierce, and one person plays the typewriter as a music instrument. Some notes have to be sustained for five years. Some notes are out of range. Some notes you have to play differently depending whether or not it is leap year. One guy has to commit suicide half way through but still has to continue playing the music.
07:23:54 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
07:24:48 <zzo38> I also like the things about the crowbars, and about flipping the music.
07:25:00 -!- augur has joined.
07:25:39 <pikhq> I'm liking the mezzopianofortemezzoforte.
07:25:52 <zzo38> You have to put blisters on your fingers to play this music.
07:26:09 <pikhq> zzo38: Sounds very much like Helter Skelter.
07:26:49 <coppro> ais523: see the last one on that page
07:27:06 <pikhq> Just about performable.
07:27:52 <pikhq> Though the last note goes off the page.
07:28:02 <pikhq> On ledger lines.
07:28:35 <zzo38> Add additional Italian notations having nothing to do with music, such as "ragno" or "scopone"
07:29:01 <pikhq> zzo38: Molto burro al crema.
07:29:26 <zzo38> Only people whose last name is not starting with "K" is allowed to play this music.
07:30:20 <pikhq> Oh, very nice touch.
07:30:45 <pikhq> The back of In A Minor (Motoring Accident) is a designated drawing area for violaists.
07:31:08 <zzo38> On statutory holidays you can be given an exception, but only if the first letter of your first name is not a F with three dots directly above it.
07:33:36 <zzo38> The 17.25th soloist must be a big monster (not human) if this is impossible you must skip directly to the 17.26666666665th frame.
07:34:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
07:34:25 <zzo38> The last note of the entire piece of music is too loud that anyone hearing it will die or something
07:34:39 <zzo38> But the first one is too quiet you don't know if you started yet or not
07:34:51 -!- augur has joined.
07:36:28 <zzo38> You have to throw the dice to determine whether or not the conductor switches places with the first violinist or whether the pianist must now play an anvil instead.
07:37:31 <coppro> (it's the latter if and only if the result of the 17 dice thrown (with sides in the Fibbonacci series, starting from 3) is prime)
07:37:33 <zzo38> After 1/sqrt(2) of the way through, everyone must sing in different languages that nobody else knows.
07:37:38 <Sgeo> Prelude and the last hope?
07:39:06 <Sgeo> Erm, hm?
07:44:56 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:45:21 <ais523> the tune should have volumes measured in megabels
07:45:36 <coppro> haha
07:46:30 <Sgeo> ais523, I.. which tune? I don't see anything in Prelude and the last hope
07:46:56 <ais523> Sgeo: we were discussing hypothetical silly music
07:47:01 <Sgeo> ah
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:04:18 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: No route to host).
08:04:47 -!- coppro has joined.
08:35:39 -!- Axtens has joined.
08:37:50 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
08:38:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:38:15 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
08:41:09 -!- Axtens has left (?).
08:48:38 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
08:51:58 <AnMaster> I have decided to use spivak on IRC, all over.
08:51:59 <AnMaster> bbl
08:54:13 <coppro> Spivak is generally awesome
08:55:24 <AnMaster> hm
08:55:39 <AnMaster> reply to that: "it is" or "ey is"?
08:55:51 <AnMaster> that is, should I be gender neutral or completely neutral
08:55:53 <AnMaster> coppro, ^
08:56:23 <coppro> I'd say "he" since the gender is known
08:56:34 <coppro> also, I much prefer "e" to "ey"
08:56:51 <AnMaster> coppro, I can't figure out how to pronounce "e"
08:56:51 <AnMaster> and
08:56:57 <coppro> "ee"
08:56:59 <AnMaster> I said all over
08:57:04 <AnMaster> even when gender is known
08:57:06 <coppro> I like it because it is like "he" and "she"
08:57:21 <AnMaster> coppro, hm
08:57:21 <coppro> and so I can use them in conversation without people really noticing
08:57:49 <AnMaster> coppro, well I couldn't because I speak Swedish in general :P
08:57:54 <coppro> :P
08:57:56 <AnMaster> and on irc people still notice
08:58:33 <coppro> (also I pronounce "em" like in "get 'em"
08:58:42 <AnMaster> hah
08:58:45 <AnMaster> cya
09:02:00 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined.
09:24:32 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: I am leaving. You are about to explode.).
09:53:10 -!- mappu has quit (Quit: bye).
09:56:33 -!- cheater99 has joined.
09:58:04 -!- tombom has joined.
10:26:35 -!- relet has joined.
10:39:38 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
11:03:44 -!- myndzi has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:04:09 -!- myndzi has joined.
11:18:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null).
11:30:20 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
11:31:09 -!- augur has joined.
11:34:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
12:29:31 -!- hiato has joined.
12:36:08 <cheater99> why ain't alise here
12:36:15 <cheater99> where is she
12:36:19 <cheater99> this is fucking ridiculous
12:42:49 <cheater99> oerjan isn't here either
12:42:49 <cheater99> argh
12:46:23 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: underflow).
12:50:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
13:29:01 -!- hiato has joined.
13:32:06 -!- augur_ has joined.
13:32:07 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
13:34:05 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
13:40:18 <augur> cheater99: good point about alise
13:40:24 <augur> alise is usually here on weekends
13:40:32 <augur> perhaps the bigbads discovered the iphone
13:47:24 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
13:48:49 -!- hiato has quit (Quit: food).
13:55:14 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
13:55:34 <cheater99> well
13:55:39 <cheater99> she would've been home by now
13:55:44 <cheater99> and has a computer at home
13:56:07 <cheater99> augur: i'm thinking she got canned for good
13:57:29 <augur> oh yes true
13:57:39 <augur> canned for good ey
13:57:52 <augur> noo alise's mother is pretty hardcore against that i think
14:00:17 -!- aschueler has joined.
14:00:24 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
14:31:49 <AnMaster> <augur> canned for good ey <-- was that "ey" spivak or a strange variant of "yeah" or such?
14:33:37 <augur> its a faux canadianism
14:34:14 <AnMaster> augur, meaning=
14:34:17 <AnMaster> s/=/?/
14:35:23 <augur> meaning nothing
14:35:24 <augur> lol
14:35:29 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
14:45:17 -!- NIR[f] has joined.
14:55:11 -!- cheater99 has joined.
14:58:57 -!- alise463 has joined.
14:59:37 <alise463> Dell Latitude CPt V466GT, sporting a 463MHz Pentium Pro Celeron CPU, 64 megs of RAM and ... Windows XP Service Pack 2?!
15:00:13 <Deewiant> On 64 megs? That's impressive.
15:00:23 <alise463> You have /no idea/ how slow this thing is.
15:00:31 <Deewiant> It was fineish on 128.
15:00:38 <alise463> Oh, sure, it's working smoothly one minute, then you switch windows and suddenly it hates you.
15:00:45 <alise463> System Information? That's a high-end application, my friend.
15:01:47 <alise463> Deewiant: Did I mention I'm connected via WiFi? Yeah... this thing has a "Designed for Microsoft Windows NT / Windows 98" sticker on it, a serial port, no Ethernet port, and a PCMCIA card slot.
15:02:02 <Deewiant> :-)
15:02:06 <alise463> And it was running Windows 95.
15:02:11 <alise463> I am so awesome.
15:02:47 <alise463> Deewiant: I couldn't even get an ancient version of Knoppix to do anything in less than ten seconds.
15:03:00 <alise463> An Ubuntu LiveCD from 2005 just refused to do ... anything.
15:03:08 <Deewiant> Unsurprising.
15:03:10 <alise463> Also, it beeps and refuses keys often. 2-key rollover, baby.
15:03:18 <alise463> Three keys is just too much for its tiny little brain.
15:04:38 <alise463> And, uh, what else ... oh yeah, I battled with my router for, like, ever. One of them -- the one that was configured to use WiFi -- would allow me to make 1, on a good day, connection, then cut it off and not work until I /reset all settings/.
15:04:40 <alise463> So ... fuck that.
15:04:51 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:04:58 -!- MizardX has joined.
15:05:07 <alise463> I suppose it's likely someone was a bit worried by my absence; sorry, it's just that using a modern computer to get this working would be *cheating*.
15:05:23 <alise463> So, uh, anyone have any tips for slimming down XP without reinstalling?
15:05:42 <Deewiant> You can't slim it down to be usable on 64M, I'm pretty sure.
15:06:00 <alise463> Hey, it's running mIRC.
15:06:09 <alise463> Deewiant: And I have /free/ /memory/.
15:06:23 <alise463> Can you *believe* that?
15:06:35 <alise463> WWell, okay, it is using 109 megs of the pagefile.
15:06:37 <Deewiant> Sure; it doesn't disk-cache the way Linux does.
15:06:37 <alise463> *Well
15:06:44 <Deewiant> Or if it does, it doesn't show it in the memory usage.
15:07:19 <alise463> And CPU usage is only 2-4%.
15:07:23 <alise463> This is almost all defaults.
15:07:33 <alise463> If I disable a lot of services -- use XPlite -- can't be so bad, can it?
15:07:48 <alise463> "Why", a decent question, butQ!
15:07:50 <alise463> *but!
15:08:02 <Deewiant> It'll still be slow to switch windows etc, most likely.
15:09:03 <fizzie> alise463: I seem to recall you were looking for me the other day; was this for some particular reason, or just to tell me how weird I allegedly look?
15:10:02 <alise463> fizzie: The latter. Although the dream's memory is now fuzzy, I still have a pretty good mental image.
15:11:07 <alise463> fizzie: Your skin colour was -- not black, not brown, but ... dark grey, in a way, with hints of brownness/blackness. You were bald, I think. Quite bulky, but not especially fat. You were wearing sunglasses, I think, and brightish clothes: white, not particularly coloured. You said hi then said you were going to call your wife: you then talked on your phone about pizza in a high-pitched,
15:11:10 <alise463> basically feminine voice.
15:11:18 <alise463> Which is, apparently, the Finnish accent.
15:11:31 <alise463> soyeah
15:12:05 <fizzie> "Uh."
15:12:21 <alise463> You'd probably not look out of place in one of the Matrix sequels. Which is always a bad sign.
15:12:36 <alise463> oklopol looks sort of like Ron Weasely or however you spell it.
15:12:45 <alise463> Thought you might all want to know.
15:13:22 <alise463> Now I'm a bit disappointed I spent this entire weekend messing with this computer instead of programming.
15:13:28 <alise463> Another seven days to wait...
15:13:35 <fizzie> More credible observers (i.e. people who've actually seen me) have told me I do have a weird sort of voice, but I don't think I look especially special.
15:14:18 <alise463> Hey, I have actually seen you. IN A DREAM.
15:14:36 <alise463> I presume Deewiant probably looks similar, except slimmer and he probably has whitish hair.
15:14:55 <alise463> fizzie: Admittedly this was /not/ my mental image of you, and I sort of tried to get away from you as quickly as possible.
15:14:58 <alise463> You were creepy. :|
15:15:23 <Deewiant> alise463: IIRC what fizzie looks like you're wrong on both counts
15:16:01 <Deewiant> (Reading as s/whitish/lighter/; anyway my hair is dark brown)
15:16:59 <alise463> 10:22:11 * Sgeo__ is considering taking Winforms programming
15:16:59 <alise463> 10:22:16 <Sgeo__> Will this poison my brain?
15:17:06 <alise463> Why ask? You'll take it anyway; you're just looking for reassurance.
15:17:13 <alise463> Deewiant: I'm correct on EVERY. ACCOUNT.
15:17:22 <alise463> This is what fizzie looks like.
15:17:24 <alise463> Also, whitish as in actually white.
15:19:06 <alise463> 10:30:37 <coppro> AnMaster: From a spelling you see in some fantasy works that want to feel that magick is special there
15:19:13 <alise463> or aleister crowley or however the hell you spell his name :p
15:19:34 -!- Gregor has joined.
15:19:57 -!- tombom has joined.
15:20:45 <AnMaster> alise463, where are you?
15:20:47 -!- NIR[f] has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
15:20:48 <AnMaster> considering the sucky system
15:23:15 -!- bab has quit (Quit: Leaving).
15:24:33 <alise463> AnMaster: w
15:24:37 <alise463> here i always am on weekends -- home
15:24:41 <AnMaster> hm
15:24:43 <alise463> *where
15:24:46 <AnMaster> alise463, you were missing yesterday
15:24:57 <alise463> Indeed. Because I was trying to get this to work.
15:25:05 <AnMaster> alise463, why on earth
15:25:11 <AnMaster> alise463, even your netbook is better iirc?
15:25:15 <alise463> Well, because I need to.
15:25:25 <alise463> AnMaster: Well, this has a bigger screen, a usable keyboard and a clit mouse.
15:25:29 <AnMaster> alise463, what is wrong with your mac then?
15:25:40 <alise463> Nothing. I don't use my mac either most of the time.
15:25:44 <AnMaster> hm
15:25:46 <alise463> I broke this so I had to get it working again.
15:25:49 <alise463> I was playing with it because why not?
15:25:55 <AnMaster> mhm
15:25:59 <alise463> As to why I have it, creative manipulation for the purpose of shits and giggles:
15:26:18 <AnMaster> hah
15:26:28 <alise463> [Scene: Unit.] TEACHER: Here, look at the stuff on this USB stick over the weekend [hands USB stick with windows program on, displaying work and shit]
15:26:49 <alise463> ME: But teacher, all the computers I have at home are Macs! They will not run that program. [does not mention Linux for sheer having-to-explain-it-ness]
15:26:51 <alise463> TEACHER: Oh. Um.
15:26:58 <alise463> TEACHER: I have this old laptop...
15:27:02 <alise463> TEACHER: [takes it out, boots it]
15:27:08 <alise463> LAPTOP: Windows 95 -- Microsoft Internet Explorer
15:27:10 <AnMaster> hah
15:27:18 <alise463> ME: Yeah, I can get that working! [ha. ha. hahaha]
15:27:26 <Deewiant> :-D
15:27:27 <alise463> TEACHER: I'm not just wasting your time with this am I? This will be useful?
15:27:30 <alise463> ME: Absolutely.
15:27:32 <AnMaster> alise463, when did that happen?
15:27:36 <alise463> AnMaster: Friday.
15:27:39 <AnMaster> oh hah
15:27:59 <alise463> Then I managed to break the Windows install and that wouldn't be such a good idea what with Monday looming and all, so...
15:28:08 <AnMaster> right
15:28:09 <alise463> I fixed it.
15:28:14 <alise463> That took a while; now here I am.
15:28:21 -!- wareya_ has changed nick to wareya.
15:28:32 <AnMaster> bbl
15:28:55 <alise463> Hey, let's see if that USB stick actually works.
15:30:04 <alise463> 19:03:40 <Gregor> Who wrote "my other car is a cdr"
15:30:04 <alise463> 19:03:43 <Gregor> WHO GETS A BEATING
15:30:08 <alise463> Erik Naggum. He's dead.
15:30:18 <alise463> [awwwk-waaaard]
15:31:48 <alise463> brb
15:33:18 <fizzie> (Won't that just make the beating easier?)
15:36:25 -!- oerjan has joined.
15:36:25 -!- alise463 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
15:38:09 -!- NIR[f] has joined.
15:38:34 -!- FireFly has joined.
15:40:09 -!- aschueler has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
15:40:59 -!- alise463 has joined.
15:42:11 <oerjan> <AnMaster> coppro, well I couldn't because I speak Swedish in general :P
15:42:22 <oerjan> maybe you could use "hån" or something?
15:42:51 <oerjan> or "hän", that's the actual finnish
15:43:36 <oerjan> <cheater99> oerjan isn't here either
15:43:59 <oerjan> we were off plotting against you.
15:46:33 <oerjan> sneezing while eating is _not_ nice. in case you didn't know.
15:46:39 <alise463> 09:06:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, hm what is 1 in base pi of pi is 10?
15:46:42 <alise463> 1 * pi^0 = 1
15:47:02 <alise463> 11 = (1 * pi^1) + (1 * pi^0) = pi+1
15:47:05 <oerjan> 1,2,3,pi
15:47:11 <olsner> oerjan: did you end up with food in nose, snot in food, or both?
15:47:31 <alise463> 32 = (3 * pi^1) + (2 * pi^0) = (3*pi)+2
15:47:36 <oerjan> olsner: i managed to cover my mouth and keep most of it in.
15:47:52 <alise463> now -- what's 3.123 in base pi :D (3*pi)+(1/pi)+(1)
15:47:54 <alise463> er
15:48:07 <alise463> now -- what's 3.123 in base pi :D (3*pi)+(1/pi)+(2 * (1/pi^2)) + (3 * (1/pi^3))
15:49:00 * oerjan imagines antropologists finding a tribe which _apparently_ can only count to 3 in natural numbers, but only because they use base pi
15:49:05 <oerjan> *anthro-
15:50:03 <alise463> :-D
15:51:27 <alise463> oerjan: base 2pi would be quite cool
15:51:47 <oerjan> yeah then you could count to six
15:51:49 <alise463> what with radians
15:52:04 <oerjan> which could be useful
15:52:23 <alise463> oerjan: /although/, base pi has a rather easy operation done by appending a 0
15:53:13 <oerjan> alise463: oh and the anthropologists solve the tribe's counting problem by introducing them to biblical literalist missionaries
15:53:34 <alise463> XD
15:53:38 <olsner> ø = 10r
15:53:40 <alise463> so wait, how do we get 4 in base pi
15:53:41 <olsner> neat :)
15:53:47 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
15:53:54 <olsner> integers do get tricky in base-pi though
15:53:55 <oerjan> alise463: 11 you heathen scum!
15:54:00 <alise463> olsner: degree sign fail
15:54:17 <olsner> alise463: crossed circle == symbol for circumference
15:54:32 <olsner> probably diameter though, nm :P
15:55:03 <alise463> oerjan: but with decimals can we actually do it?
15:55:11 <Deewiant> alise463: 3+1
15:55:16 <oerjan> of course...
15:55:22 <alise463> yeah, so what does it come out to :-)
15:55:29 <Deewiant> It doesn't
15:56:16 <alise463> wat?
15:57:24 <Deewiant> Well it's pi.22...
15:58:30 <alise463> We don't have a pi digit, though.
15:58:37 <alise463> Or do you mean 10.{22}, where {} is recurring?
15:59:01 <oerjan> it cannot be recurring
15:59:11 <alise463> why not?
15:59:44 <Deewiant> I meant 10.22 followed by something
15:59:47 <oerjan> because that would be 2*(1/pi + 1/pi^2 + ...) = 2*1/(1-1/pi) which cannot be algebraic
15:59:50 <Deewiant> Didn't calculate it further
16:00:12 <alise463> oerjan: haha, awesome.
16:00:59 <olsner> it wouldn't be terribly surprising if it's actually impossible to represent any integer exactly
16:01:18 <oerjan> well it's pretty surely representable with an infinite expansion
16:01:45 <alise463> olsner: um, 0, 1, 2 and 3
16:03:35 <olsner> heh, right :)
16:04:34 <olsner> integers above pi then?
16:05:03 <alise463> well ... I should write a program to figure it out, shouldn't I?
16:05:06 <oerjan> those are impossible with finite representation
16:05:29 <alise463> Right, I cba to turn on the computer, therefore I shall take the other laptop -- that isn't shit -- to a more comfortable place to code.
16:05:48 <alise463> I shall be seeing y'all thar.
16:06:12 <oerjan> for the same kind of transcendentality reason, any finite representation is an integer polynomial in pi
16:06:27 <oerjan> um
16:06:38 <oerjan> pi and 1/pi
16:07:56 <oerjan> if the polynomial has a non-constant term that cannot be algebraic
16:08:15 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
16:12:28 <olsner> and I guess this also applies for any transcendental bases? (e.g. base-e too)
16:12:34 <oerjan> say if you have pi^3 + 2 + 1/pi + 3/pi^2 = x, then multiply by pi^2 to get pi^5 + 2*pi^2 - x*pi^2 + pi + 3 = 0
16:12:55 <oerjan> if x is rational that is a contradiction.
16:13:13 <oerjan> yes
16:13:13 <alise463> or IS it
16:13:43 <oerjan> yes it is, pi is not the root of a nontrivial polynomial in rationals
16:14:08 <alise463> ok why doesn't ubuntu recognise this
16:14:11 <alise463> oerjan: or IS it
16:15:18 <oerjan> i _think_ x cannot even be algebraic but i don't see that clearly at the moment
16:15:36 <alise463> Sgeo: Indeed, Seth Gold.
16:15:47 <alise463> Seth Gold. G-O-L-D, Seth. Sgeo: Seth Gold. Seth "Sgeo" Gold.
16:15:55 <alise463> (wrt: last name)
16:16:15 <oerjan> oh hm you prove that by inserting pi^3 + 2 + 1/pi + 3/pi^2 into any polynomial x would be root of, i think
16:17:40 <alise463> dammit someone make this work
16:18:38 * pikhq would like his nose back
16:18:47 <oerjan> pikhq: wait what
16:19:10 <pikhq> oerjan: It's all congested.
16:19:42 <alise463> pikhq: hey fix my wifi issue
16:19:56 <oerjan> pikhq: it's probably BP's fault
16:20:32 <pikhq> oerjan: Maybe.
16:20:42 <pikhq> alise463: MAGIIIIC!
16:21:26 -!- tombom has joined.
16:21:40 <alise463> pikhq: bn
16:21:45 <alise463> but it modern ubuntu modern computer why no
16:21:46 <alise463> work
16:22:30 <oerjan> <fizzie> (Won't that just make the beating easier?)
16:22:43 <oerjan> this is _naggum_ we're talking about. i wouldn't bet on it.
16:23:06 <pikhq> alise463: The only thing worse than WiFi on Linux is WiFi on Windows.
16:24:05 <alise463> pikhq: HOW CAN I MAKE THIS /WORK/
16:24:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
16:27:08 <alise463> it no work !!
16:30:19 <alise463> ;k
16:30:29 <alise463> pikhq: explain how the hell /ethernet/ won't work on linux
16:30:32 <alise463> THERE IS NO ETHERNET DEVICE.
16:30:34 <alise463> JUST WHAT.
16:31:31 <pikhq> alise463: AAAAAGH AAAAAGH AAAAGH
16:31:57 <pikhq> IF YOU DONT HAVE A GOD GET ONE
16:32:01 <alise463> pikhq: it /works with windows 7/
16:32:12 <alise463> it is a /mainstream, *sane* laptop/
16:32:13 <alise463> WHY IS THIS.
16:32:17 <pikhq> Fuckfuckfuckwhatfuckfuck?
16:32:43 <alise463> Fixitfixitfixitfixitfixit
16:32:59 <alise463> pikhq: It is a toshiba satellite FIX IT
16:33:05 <alise463> UBUNTU 9.10 DFIX IT
16:34:05 <pikhq> alise463: APTGET INSTALL SMART
16:34:16 <alise463> pikhq: THERE NO "SMART" PACKAGE!!!
16:35:05 <alise463> make it work forever now thansk
16:35:11 <pikhq> coLinux?
16:35:19 <alise463> no i want ubuntu it is coo l
16:35:35 <pikhq> coLinux can run Ubuntu just fine.
16:35:47 <pikhq> It's nothing more than a Linux kernel running in Windows kernelspace.
16:35:54 <pikhq> Thereby using Windows as the world's largest Linux driver.
16:35:57 <alise463> I DUN XCARE
16:36:05 <alise463> I WANT A NATIVE BUNTU
16:36:06 <alise463> I WANT NO WINNOWS
16:38:13 <alise463> aaaa a make it work
16:39:07 <alise463> realtek 8172 please work it
16:39:31 <pikhq> ... Wait, seriously?
16:39:38 <pikhq> You're having trouble with one of those?
16:39:42 <pikhq> WHAT THE FUCK
16:40:00 <alise463> make it work :(( I'd google but can't, "realtek 8172 ubuntu wifi"?? plz
16:40:57 <AnMaster> wait is that a wifi? I could have sworn I had a PCI ethernet card with a chipset with a name like that ages ago
16:41:00 <alise463> it doesn't even have the .,... urgh
16:41:05 <alise463> i don't even care if its wifi
16:41:07 <alise463> i just want it to work
16:41:12 <AnMaster> eh
16:41:21 <alise463> this is fucfkin
16:41:21 <alise463> g bullshit
16:41:25 <AnMaster> alise463, to me it sounds like ethernet.
16:41:26 <alise463> why can't ubuntu handle, like, every ethernet ever.
16:41:31 <alise463> i don't even care just jesus christ.
16:41:33 <alise463> ethernet.
16:41:36 <AnMaster> hm
16:41:37 <alise463> fucking simple.
16:41:38 <alise463> support it.
16:41:39 <alise463> or die
16:41:43 <AnMaster> google seems to indicate it is wifi
16:41:55 <alise463> support. or. die.
16:41:57 <AnMaster> alise463, stop whining. It will not do help in any way whatsoever
16:41:59 <alise463> Ethernet. Dammit!
16:42:04 <alise463> AnMaster: no, i'm pissed off.
16:42:13 <alise463> also, it irritates you, which is a function in and of itself.
16:42:30 <alise463> pikhq: Hey, write an OS which does Ethernet. Thanks.
16:42:32 <AnMaster> alise463, actually google indicates it is wifi. I think the ethernet I remember must have had a similar number
16:42:55 <alise463> Ubuntu indicates there is no eth0! What!
16:43:01 <AnMaster> alise463, try iwconfig
16:43:05 <AnMaster> see if there is any wlan0
16:43:08 <pikhq> alise463: lspci!
16:43:09 <alise463> I don't need wlan0.
16:43:11 <alise463> I need eth0.
16:43:14 <alise463> pikhq: 'tis listed. No driver, listed.
16:43:29 <AnMaster> alise463, okay but realtek 8172 is wifi as far as I can tell from googling
16:43:31 <AnMaster> it is NOT ethernet
16:43:42 <alise463> it does ethernet too surely.
16:43:53 <alise463> eh who cares
16:43:55 <alise463> i don;'t need ethernet
16:44:08 <AnMaster> *shrug*
16:44:12 <alise463> "as of karmic [...] driver is missing"
16:44:17 <alise463> "realtek provides linux native driver"
16:44:25 <alise463> *sigh*
16:44:33 <pikhq> Permission granted to stab people, alise.
16:45:49 <alise463> ok so I have to install build-essential linux-headers-`uname -r`; extract tar to /usr/src or wherever. cp -rf firmware/RTL8192SE /lib/firmware. sudo make. then
16:46:07 <alise463> cp HAL/rt18192/r8192se_pci.ko /lib/modules/*/kernel/drivers/net/
16:46:11 <alise463> sudo depmod -a
16:46:40 <alise463> users\elliott\downloads
16:47:02 <alise463> ok i can do this
16:47:15 <alise463> pikhq: what is it with drivers
16:47:22 <alise463> what happened to standards, why does wifi need drivers
16:47:23 <alise463> it's a protocol!
16:47:42 <alise463> fuck drivers.
16:48:15 <pikhq> alise463: Hardware manufacturers went "Fuck sanity, each device needs its own hardware interface. Oh, and we'll only offer Windows drivers. Because fuck you."
16:48:25 <pikhq> They have a fondness for pissing off their customers, if you'll note.
16:49:03 <alise463> well realtek offer linux drivers -- thx -- but why ubuntu
16:49:06 <alise463> you fails
16:50:38 <pikhq> Ubuntu clearly flails.
16:50:44 <pikhq> They fail so hard they flail.
16:51:02 <alise463> they flails
16:53:47 <alise463> hmm now what
16:53:52 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
16:54:24 <alise463> pikhq: oki nao has iwconfig worky - but how connect proply?
16:54:39 <pikhq> alise463: Do you have a bat handy?
16:56:08 <alise463> ye
16:56:20 <pikhq> Apply directly to the forehead!
16:57:18 <pikhq> I JUST WANT TO BREATH
16:57:24 <alise463> MAXIMUM CAPACITY!!!
16:57:42 <pikhq> alise463: Fuck you I wanna breath.
16:58:15 <alise463> capacititty
16:59:36 <alise463> okay seriously hwyyy
16:59:36 <alise463> y
17:00:52 <alise463> pikhq: what is a command to scan for wifi?
17:02:22 <pikhq> Dunno.
17:03:03 <alise463> okay, seriously, why would i have a good interface with a driver ... that won't connect?
17:03:50 <pikhq> alise463: They lovelovelove their automagic shit there in Ubuntu.
17:04:06 <Gregor> Moop
17:04:09 <pikhq> I presume that NetworkManager is arguing with you.
17:04:23 <alise463> pikhq: no, it tries to connect
17:04:28 <alise463> and it just goes
17:04:29 <alise463> bl;ehdisconnected
17:04:34 <pikhq> ...
17:04:35 <alise463> so how can i manu-connecto-supremo
17:04:40 <alise463> HOW
17:05:18 <Gregor> DARKE ARTSE
17:05:23 <pikhq> You need a pint of chicken blood, a golden pentragram inlayed in the floor, and a firm disregard for the future status of your soul.
17:05:32 <alise463> but but but but butbubtubtubububtubububutbubububtubububt
17:05:36 <alise463> tublike
17:05:58 <Gregor> TUBGIRL
17:06:03 <Gregor> Two girls one tub
17:06:09 <Gregor> (girl)
17:06:17 <alise463> Oh, I see! Maybe wrong driver drive driver wrong drive.
17:07:27 <alise463> :'''(
17:08:15 <cheater99> hello alise
17:08:21 <cheater99> we thought you weren't gonna come
17:08:35 <cheater99> augur got like real scared
17:08:36 <alise463> no, you did
17:08:41 <alise463> i read the logs
17:08:41 <alise463> no he just said one line
17:08:45 <alise463> mr. hyperbole
17:08:52 <augur> alise463, i was totally scurred
17:09:06 <cheater99> <augur> cheater99: good point about alise
17:09:06 <cheater99> <augur> alise is usually here on weekends
17:09:06 <cheater99> <augur> perhaps the bigbads discovered the iphone
17:09:11 <cheater99> there you go
17:09:15 <cheater99> augur talkin' bout u
17:09:24 <augur> yes, i have eyes
17:09:39 <cheater99> that's not one line, alise
17:09:40 <augur> pikhq: ONE
17:09:41 <augur> TWO
17:09:42 <augur> FOUR
17:10:47 <alise463> it still no work
17:10:52 <alise463> why the fail
17:10:59 <pikhq> alise463: Try chants.
17:11:08 <alise463> alle ist brokin.
17:11:16 <pikhq> I can make some vaguely Zen ones for if you'd like.
17:11:19 <alise463> no seriously. make this work
17:12:11 <alise463> pikhq: MU IS NOT MU
17:12:13 <pikhq> 無理だ、このものが。何故無理何故無理何故無理〜。
17:12:30 <pikhq> alise463: What, 無は無じゃ無い?
17:12:37 <pikhq> (mu wa mu ja nai)
17:13:05 <pikhq> (Muri da, kono mono ga. Naze muri naze muri naze muri~.)
17:13:48 <alise463> no please just tell me how to make this work :|
17:14:55 <pikhq> Repeat after me: There is no kernel but Linux, and Tux is its mascot.
17:15:06 <pikhq> (seriously, I got nothing.)
17:15:13 <alise463> i would just program on windows but ... no
17:15:37 <pikhq> (本当に、考えが無い)
17:18:26 <alise463> pikhq: a 32-bit driver won't work on 64-bit kernel right?
17:19:20 <pikhq> alise463: Not even slightly.
17:21:48 -!- Gregor has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:22:58 -!- tombom has joined.
17:23:02 <alise463> just make it work
17:27:26 <alise463> pikhq: okay seriously i need advice...
17:27:30 <alise463> this shoulo dbe simple!
17:32:44 -!- Gracenotes has joined.
17:33:40 -!- alise463 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:35:33 -!- alise463 has joined.
17:35:39 <pikhq> The secret is to be running on 4 hours of sleep.
17:35:45 <alise463> why does this even happen#
17:35:54 <alise463> now is reinstalled and wifi won't ... enabl e
17:36:03 <alise463> *enable
17:38:37 <alise463> pikhq: i will pay you to FIX EVERYTHING
17:39:21 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:40:39 <alise463> pikhq: ok, i'm just reinstalling ubuntu
17:40:49 <pikhq> Hokay
17:40:58 <alise463> even though 10.04 sucks d'y b'ls
17:41:03 <alise463> oh well
17:43:13 <alise463> kill it with fyr'
17:44:52 -!- Gregor has joined.
17:44:53 <Gracenotes> I just tried to upgrade Ubuntu from chroot on a livecd because 9.10 wouldn't boot up
17:45:05 <alise463> arkyval uf matireals is veri important.
17:45:16 <Gracenotes> now I no longer have a non-functional 9.10, I have a non-functional 10.04
17:45:28 <alise463> 9.10 was sweet
17:45:34 <alise463> 10.04 is pooy.
17:45:50 <Gracenotes> it seems to get sleeker every release
17:46:05 <alise463> it's not the slickness i dislike
17:46:07 <Gracenotes> and then you get used to it and notice the bloat
17:46:08 <alise463> it's just that 10.04 is crap
17:46:09 * Gregor <3 sidux
17:46:20 <alise463> Gregor: and how well exactly would sidux work with this wifi card out of the box?
17:46:24 <alise463> this is my last day.
17:46:26 <Gregor> Probably not at all.
17:46:34 <Gregor> sidux is for people who like to manually configure shit :P
17:46:52 <Gregor> (No, that's slackware, but still the point stands)
17:47:02 <Gregor> What card is it? Is it a broadcom?
17:47:20 <alise463> realtek
17:47:26 <Gregor> Oh. Then you're fucked.
17:47:29 <Gregor> :P
17:47:33 <alise463> and ubuntu 9.10 didn'[t work with it
17:47:36 <alise463> *didn't
17:50:44 <alise463> fopjio]
17:53:10 <alise463> oh god ill have to unetbootin it
17:53:26 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep).
17:54:27 <Gregor> Why is unetbootin called unetbootin.
17:54:32 <Gregor> It seems like a completely wrong name
17:54:39 <alise463> universal netboot installer or something
17:54:45 <alise463> or "You netbooting"
17:55:55 <Gregor> But it's NOT a netboot installer.
17:56:14 <alise463> Or IS it
17:56:16 <Gregor> It makes USB drives, not PXE installers.
17:57:01 <alise463> Or DOES it.
17:57:18 <Gregor> Yes ... yes it does.
17:59:06 <alise463> Or DOES it.
18:02:45 <alise463> How do you lazily unmount something?
18:05:39 <pikhq> umount -f
18:05:57 <pikhq> Marks the mount for unmounting, will actually do it when there's no open files.
18:06:14 <alise463> pikhq: Specifically, I want every process to see it as unmounted, but it not to actually be unmounted since I need that shit.
18:06:23 <alise463> (Not unmounting until all the files are closed would work.)
18:06:35 <pikhq> mount -f does just that.
18:06:40 <pikhq> It's removed from /etc/mtab.
18:06:40 <alise463> This is because the Ubuntu installer is trying to unmount the partition it's on.
18:06:41 <alise463> So, uh, yeah.
18:06:42 <pikhq> IIRC
18:07:54 <AnMaster> looks like thunderstorm approaching and I will be away from home, so shutting down, cya.
18:08:18 <alise463> pikhq: "Device busy! Waaah!"
18:08:28 -!- cheater99 has joined.
18:08:30 * alise463 just removes it from /etc/mtab.
18:09:12 <pikhq> alise463: Which is probably a symlink to /proc/mounts
18:09:19 <alise463> ...Heh.
18:09:22 <alise463> So what have I done :)
18:09:33 <pikhq> I'm... Not sure?
18:09:40 <alise463> I broke.
18:09:46 <alise463> I managed this before
18:12:20 -!- cheater99 has quit (Client Quit).
18:13:40 <alise463> pikhq: It's umount -l, silly.
18:13:50 <pikhq> alise463: Ah. That.
18:13:54 -!- AnMaster has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
18:15:33 * alise463 uses username 'alise' on whim
18:15:38 <alise463> Yay, it works.
18:16:37 <alise463> pikhq
18:16:42 <alise463> pikhq the installer crashed
18:17:01 <pikhq> Agh.
18:17:05 <Gregor> Dooooods
18:17:09 <Gregor> umount -f is force :P
18:17:17 <Gregor> And it basically never works.
18:17:29 <pikhq> Gregor: Thinko kays?
18:23:26 -!- alise463 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:23:36 -!- alise_ has joined.
18:23:50 <alise_> Okay, who knows how to work the grub rescue console?
18:24:55 <alise_> Seriously ...
18:24:58 <alise_> Who knows how@?
18:25:01 <alise_> *how?
18:28:25 <Gregor> No one.
18:28:27 <Gregor> It's black magic.
18:28:41 <alise_> That is seriously not helpful. I just want to boot one partition.
18:29:39 <Gregor> Use http://gujin.sourceforge.net/
18:29:48 -!- aschueler has joined.
18:30:29 <alise_> Yeah, open links on this machine. Real smart idea.
18:30:39 <alise_> Better idea, someone please tell me the command to boot from some partition.
18:37:10 -!- alise_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
18:37:32 -!- alise463 has joined.
18:37:55 <alise463> Someone? Help?
18:38:28 <alise463> pikhq. You help. :P
18:39:30 <Gregor> I already helped. You were all "no I donwanna download that I'm ascared" so feh to you.
18:39:36 <Gregor> I don't speak GRUB :P
18:39:55 <alise463> How do you proprose I use it?
18:40:12 <Gregor> Stick it on a USB key, floppy, CD-rom, or anything else your computer can boot from.
18:40:22 <Gregor> Then watch it detect all your partitions and kernels.
18:40:33 <alise463> No usb stick no cdrom orfloppy dribe
18:40:42 <Gregor> wtf kind of computer is this?
18:40:46 <Gregor> Does it have a punchcard slot?
18:41:15 <alise463> A modern lightweight laptop aND A person w/o a usb drive
18:41:34 <Gregor> Ah, the lack of USB disk is a personal failing :P
18:41:50 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
18:42:15 <alise463> Gregor: can you just google 'grub recovery console' plz?
18:42:28 <Gregor> ... you're on IRC and you can't google?
18:42:56 <alise463> 463mhz 64mb ram
18:43:01 <alise463> winxp ie6
18:43:23 <Gregor> Sounds fully google-capable to me.
18:43:30 <alise463> ha
18:43:43 <alise463> this thing barely runs
18:44:45 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
18:45:42 <alise463> :/#
18:45:45 <fizzie> You want to load a kernel image, or just chainload a bootsector from some partiton?
18:45:54 <alise463> latter
18:45:55 <alise463> *:/
18:46:58 <fizzie> It's something like "set root=(hd0,1)" followed by "chainloader +1" followed by "boot" to make it go.
18:47:06 <Zuu> rootnoverify (hd0,0)
18:47:16 <Zuu> chainloader +1
18:47:19 <alise463> but this is the recovery console
18:47:39 <alise463> no command chainloader
18:48:29 <alise463> ://
18:49:33 <fizzie> Hmm. Grub's command-line shell should use the same commands; I'm not sure (and can't immediately see from googling) about any special recovery things.
18:50:09 <alise463> Sorry -
18:50:14 <alise463> "Rescue" console.
18:51:07 <fizzie> Ohhh, that's a grub2 thing, it looks like.
18:51:20 <alise463> Good to know. How do I work it?
18:52:32 -!- SimonRC has joined.
18:52:37 <fizzie> I is trying to check.
18:52:55 <fizzie> Last time I had a broken thing it was pre-2 ages.
18:54:46 <fizzie> Hrm.
18:54:59 <alise463> "ls" lists the (hd#,#) things.
18:55:16 <Deewiant> The following commands can be used in the grub rescue mode: [list which contains "chainloader"]
18:55:20 <fizzie> The web claims the "chainloader" command should be available in rescue mo...
18:55:22 <fizzie> Right.
18:55:35 <alise463> It also complained about some missing file when starting the console.
18:55:41 <alise463> So is there some ... super-fundamental command list?
18:56:03 <alise463> "error: file not found \n grub rescue>"
18:56:15 <Deewiant> boot cat chainloader dump exit kfreebsd kfreebsd_loadenv kfreebsd_module help initrd insmod linux lsmod multiboot normal rmmod set unset
18:56:24 <fizzie> It's oh-so-modular nowadays, maybe you need to find the chainloader from somewhere.
18:56:37 <Deewiant> If additional commands are needed, the user might try loading the normal GRUB 2 module with insmod normal. If successful, help and additional commands will be available.
18:56:58 <alise463> insmod is available, "insmod normal" says file not found.
18:57:03 <fizzie> You seem to need to insmod to get the linux command, for example.
18:57:05 <alise463> Also, I see no ls in Deewiant's list...
18:57:14 -!- cheater99 has joined.
18:57:15 <alise463> No lsmod.
18:57:34 <Deewiant> alise463: I think that's just an omission, there are examples using it.
18:57:59 <alise463> Okay. So ... any other commands? "ls" and a useless "insmod" are all I have.
18:58:07 <alise463> Oh, and set/unset.
18:58:24 <alise463> BTW, /boot/grub no longer exists so I can't load anything.
18:58:28 <Deewiant> File Not Found: This error is the result of a GRUB 2 installation to /boot but a Master Boot Record ( MBR ) which still contains Grub legacy.
18:58:30 <alise463> Because it was wiped.
18:58:30 <alise463> So.
18:58:32 <Deewiant> To recover from this error, GRUB 2 must be reinstalled. Go to Reinstalling from the LiveCD for instructions.
18:58:36 <alise463> Any [[idea]]
18:58:51 <alise463> Deewiant: Good, good ... I have no media to boot from.
18:59:04 <alise463> Is my only resolve to... buy a USB stick?
18:59:04 <Deewiant> You may be phucked
18:59:20 <fizzie> Without the grub modules to insmod, you might indeed be suckered.
19:01:39 <Gregor> I for one would like to be the first to say welcome to the year 2010.
19:01:49 <Gregor> Now go buy a USB stick ;P
19:02:11 <alise463> Gregor: Sunday, 19:01.
19:02:13 <Gregor> (Note: I'm not sure how you're going to get gujin onto it if your only system is so much suckage)
19:02:22 <Gregor> alise463: If you were in the US, that would be a nonissue.
19:02:23 <Gregor> But no.
19:02:25 <alise463> The other system is not suckage, this is my suckage system.
19:02:37 <alise463> The other system is a very good, now-bricked, laptop.
19:02:44 <Gregor> alise463: I meant downloading gujin and putting it on the USB stick.
19:02:46 <Deewiant> Brickiness implies suckage
19:02:56 <alise463> Gregor: I could do that.
19:03:01 <alise463> Now give me a USB stick.
19:03:09 * Gregor shoves one through his monitor.
19:03:18 <alise463> Well ... I have one next to me. I could back it up to the HD.
19:03:19 <Gregor> I've got three in my pocket, plus an SD reader that would do the trick too :P
19:03:20 <alise463> And restore it after.
19:03:21 <alise463> Okay.
19:03:33 <alise463> But I'll have to disconnect to insert it.
19:04:48 <Gregor> OK, come on, that computer is not from 1975.
19:05:24 <alise463> one usb port.
19:05:39 <Gregor> And you have ... a USB ethernet adapter connected to it now?
19:05:39 <alise463> Gregor: So how do I install gujin to a USB drive on windows.
19:05:49 <alise463> I have a USB wifi adaptor connected to it.
19:05:51 <alise463> It has no ethernet ports.
19:05:57 <alise463> It does have a PCMCIA 56k+Fax modem, though.
19:05:59 <alise463> I removed that.
19:06:01 <Gregor> Sweet
19:06:11 <alise463> *adapter
19:06:20 <alise463> So, gujin on Windows to USB. How.
19:06:37 <alise463> It wants me to download dd for windows.
19:06:39 <alise463> Lovely.
19:06:44 <Gregor> Of course it does.
19:06:49 <Gregor> Oh, NOW you can browse that page :P
19:07:12 <alise463> Gregor: Oh, and it doesn't haev a pre-built image for <1Gb USB sticks!
19:07:13 <Gregor> (Note: I've never done it from Windows :P )
19:07:15 <alise463> *have
19:07:20 <Gregor> Sweet!
19:07:22 <alise463> So I'm COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY FUCKED.
19:07:24 <Gregor> Well then you're punked.
19:07:56 <Gregor> Idonno, you could try grubbing around with gparted live or something.]
19:08:17 <alise463> And how would I write that?
19:08:29 <Gregor> Unzip to drive, run .bat file to make bootable.
19:08:36 <Gregor> It's 200MB though :P
19:08:44 <alise463> Can't download that at these speeds.
19:08:49 <Gregor> Figgered.
19:08:55 <alise463> This is internet over USB 1.0.
19:09:14 <Gregor> lawl
19:09:28 <Gregor> On a scale from one to ten, you're screwed.
19:09:44 <alise463> Okay, can I just get a GRUB 1 console on a livecd?
19:09:44 <alise463> Thanks.
19:09:56 <Gregor> Idonno, probably?
19:10:45 <alise463> Okay.
19:11:43 <alise463> Okay, okay, that probably.
19:11:45 <alise463> Aurghhhjgoijdfogidfjgoifdg
19:13:21 <alise463> Okay, seriously. Is there not just a Windows --- appli-- thingy usb writing .. bloody hell.
19:21:07 -!- alise463 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:21:19 -!- alise463 has joined.
19:28:14 -!- alise463 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:39:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:39:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:39:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Changing host).
19:39:32 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:40:12 <Gregor> Freenode's hostname blocking would be 100% more effective if it didn't do that :P
19:40:33 <pikhq> Hah.
19:41:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:41:53 <Gregor> Also I wonder what would happen if we had blocked, say, *!*@unaffiliated/*
19:41:58 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:42:04 <Gregor> Since it's not a real quit/join
19:43:58 <Ilari> Well +b also silences user if they are on channel for some reason.
19:44:08 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:44:17 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:46:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:46:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:50:45 -!- zzo38 has joined.
19:51:05 <zzo38> Can you make any 'patamagic (or 'patapsionics) feats in D&D?
19:51:23 <zzo38> There is metamagic so now we have to make the other one, which is 'patamagic
20:14:28 <Sgeo> Bleh, someone pinged me
20:34:26 -!- calamari has joined.
20:38:57 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:56:19 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
21:25:15 <Ilari> Hmm... 1377.75s of fullHD video taking 393MB...
21:31:33 <Gregor> "HD" refers only to resolution, not quality :P
21:32:38 -!- coppro has joined.
21:33:30 -!- kwertii has joined.
21:38:33 <Ilari> Well, at least it isn't overcompressed. :-)
21:48:39 -!- NIR[f] has left (?).
21:50:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:50:19 -!- augur has joined.
21:52:19 <CakeProphet> so anyone remember bugSophia?
21:52:28 <CakeProphet> I think I just got some new ideas to complete the design
21:52:56 <CakeProphet> involving message-controlled gates, and making the bugs finite state machines rather than only byte values.
21:54:13 <CakeProphet> message-controlled gates is essentially a form of blocking. But I need to figure out other ways to coordinate behavior
22:02:27 <zzo38> OK now do that
22:09:02 <CakeProphet> well
22:09:10 <CakeProphet> zzo38: the figuring out part, is the obstacle to that.
22:29:49 -!- kwertii_ has joined.
22:31:35 -!- kwertii has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
22:31:36 -!- kwertii_ has changed nick to kwertii.
22:40:28 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:45:12 <calamari> okay.. rewad my logs.. CakeProphet was the one who wanted to write an OS
22:45:15 <calamari> read
22:45:59 <calamari> CakeProphet: is that something you are still interested in?
22:49:24 <CakeProphet> yes actually.
22:50:38 <calamari> what programming languages do you know?
22:51:02 <calamari> or would you prefer to program the os in an esoteric one?
22:51:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:51:42 -!- augur has joined.
22:52:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:52:06 <zzo38> If you want to write an OS perhaps use 888ASM and/or C
22:52:09 -!- augur has joined.
22:53:16 <calamari> C is boring, everyone uses that for OSes
22:53:30 <zzo38> Then use 888ASM or machine codes
22:53:59 <calamari> or an esolang compiled to an asm
22:54:36 <zzo38> Yes, if you want to write it using esolang, you can try that too
22:55:07 <zzo38> Perhaps write it in INTERCAL or whatever
22:56:32 <calamari> I suppose it would'nt have to be limited to a signle esolang
22:56:51 <calamari> just whichever we wrote compilers for
22:57:03 <relet> malbolgeOS anyone?
22:57:32 <calamari> okay so relet has volunteered to write the filesystem layer in Malbolge
22:57:36 <calamari> thanks
22:58:00 <zzo38> Yes I suppose you can use multiple esolangs. You can even mix esoteric programming with normal programming, mix compilers with interpreters, mix low-level with high-level, and mix machine-codes with not-machine-codes.
22:58:09 <relet> I'll see to it that the file access methods will be worthy of the language. ;)
22:58:44 <zzo38> You can't write subroutines in Malbolge...?
22:59:13 <calamari> CakeProphet: ping
22:59:22 <zzo38> You would have to make it a entirely separate program that is then linked to the machine I/O and to the other program
23:00:08 <calamari> the trick would be a VM that did not require special I/O calls to operate
23:00:32 <calamari> I mean like ports, interrupt calls, etc
23:00:55 <CakeProphet> calamari: C, Python, and Haskell are the ones I am most fluent with
23:00:59 <CakeProphet> aka have real experience with
23:01:08 <CakeProphet> but I "know" others.
23:01:23 <calamari> the lowest common denominator is usually some kind of text i/o
23:01:42 <CakeProphet> I think C will be somewhat essential if we intend to use other languages
23:01:59 <CakeProphet> making Haskell standalone would require some C coding
23:02:12 <zzo38> OK. But then write the VM using something else, such as C or assembler codes
23:02:18 <calamari> zzo38: right
23:02:39 <zzo38> When I write operating system, from nothing, I use machine-codes and 888ASM and Forth.
23:02:58 <calamari> essentally the VM would be a kind of translating micro kernel
23:03:13 <zzo38> calamari: OK
23:03:28 <calamari> and yeah not going to code that in python :)
23:03:40 <calamari> although you could code it in python for the fake version
23:04:48 <CakeProphet> calamari: so you want to put everything in a VM? I'm down with that.
23:04:50 <zzo38> I don't know about system calls in Python (not even text I/O), because I have never used any
23:05:15 <calamari> CakeProphet: yeah I talked you out of it before, but it is the way to go if we want to include esolangs
23:05:51 <calamari> zzo38: wouldn't have to worry about system calls.. since python would be running on top of windows or linux or whatever
23:05:55 <CakeProphet> alright. so what kind of VM? And what do you want to program it in?
23:06:18 <zzo38> Actually with some esolangs it is not necessary, such as some variants of INTERCAL can be written to allow direct system call under no other operating system
23:06:35 <calamari> zzo38: true.. some esolangs are more powerful than others
23:07:22 <zzo38> calamari: Even if running on top of Windows or Linux, you still need the call to get input from the keyboard, display things on the screen, store things in a file (even if it is only one file), and so on
23:07:31 <calamari> CakeProphet: I would be good with programming the VM in Python and then porting it to a combo of C and ASM for the real hardware version
23:08:16 <calamari> zzo38: surely you've done all those things in python before..
23:08:27 <zzo38> calamari: No I have not done any of those things in Python before
23:08:36 <calamari> import os, sys
23:08:43 <CakeProphet> calamari: eh, I'd prefer something other than Python.
23:08:48 <zzo38> I have only written some card games in Python
23:08:57 -!- karmicalise has joined.
23:09:03 <karmicalise> Yo.
23:09:04 <calamari> CakeProphet: I don't know Haskell
23:09:09 <zzo38> And I don't plan to write anything else in Python since there are other program languages I can use, such as C
23:09:12 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:09:13 <karmicalise> Gregor: Can you believe it?
23:09:17 <karmicalise> I fucking got it working.
23:09:22 <karmicalise> I am a GOD DAMN GENIUS.
23:09:28 <calamari> zzo38: I like python.. it owns
23:09:32 <Gregor> Now if only you can working get it fucking.
23:09:32 <karmicalise> I HAVE CONQUERED COMPUTERS.
23:09:40 <karmicalise> calamari: It's a good language except for the fact that it sucks.
23:09:44 <karmicalise> Gregor: Indeed, indeed :(
23:09:44 <CakeProphet> calamari: why not just start with C for the VM? No point implementing it twice.
23:09:46 <zzo38> calamari: I have nothing against you to like Python, if you want to use it that is OK
23:10:03 <calamari> CakeProphet: not really..
23:10:03 <CakeProphet> calamari: you could do the assembly/C, and I could do C.
23:10:05 <zzo38> I just don't use Python for anything else other than writing some solitaire card games.
23:10:22 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:10:25 <calamari> CakeProphet: thefake vm would be relatively simple
23:10:30 <zzo38> And later I might prefer to write a solitaire game engine in Forth instead, so that some solitaire card games can be implemented in Forth
23:10:35 <karmicalise> Gregor: It was so awesome though, I got your bootloader thing onto the usb stick which I had to keep (backed it up to the shitty laptop), but it didn't work so it finally worked with one that included super grub disk
23:10:41 <karmicalise> i used the grub command line to boot into windows
23:10:46 <karmicalise> booted into the unetbootin
23:10:50 <karmicalise> then did, from the interwebs
23:10:57 <karmicalise> mount -l to get the mount options for /cdrom#
23:10:59 <karmicalise> */cdrom
23:11:05 <karmicalise> umount -r -f -l /cdrom
23:11:11 <calamari> CakeProphet: the real vm would probably use bios calls at first although we could get fancier later
23:11:13 <karmicalise> then right after the install started, remounted /cdrom
23:11:14 <Gregor> *brain axplote*
23:11:14 <karmicalise> kerching!
23:11:34 <karmicalise> (it needs /cdrom later it seems, for some reason; -r -f -l gotta fuck shit up -- but if it's mounted at the start it'll break by trying to unmount it)
23:11:43 <karmicalise> Gregor: and then ubuntu installed an actual bootloader and now everything is perfect.
23:12:04 <karmicalise> Put me in front of any computer and I will BREAK IT AND THEN FIX IT AGAIN.
23:12:35 <karmicalise> No worrying back, man.
23:12:36 <CakeProphet> calamari: so you're saying it would be best to write a quick VM so we can go ahead and start other components of the OS and then go back and make it more efficient?
23:12:49 <CakeProphet> I'd prefer Haskell for that. You should learn it. :)
23:13:04 <calamari> CakeProphet: have fun then :)
23:13:10 <CakeProphet> besides, it /is/ possible to make Haskell standalone if you implement all of the libraries that it links to.
23:13:21 <zzo38> Worrying back is usually disallowed in Freecell. But worrying back is allowed in some other games. Worrying back is more common in Klondike
23:13:35 <karmicalise> What is worrying back?
23:13:53 <calamari> I suck at functional langs.. so you'd pretty much be on your own
23:13:55 <zzo38> Taking cards back from the foundations after they have already been played
23:14:18 <karmicalise> God damn I upgraded the shittiest laptop ever to Windows XP and then managed to fix this bricked system with barely anything.
23:14:24 <karmicalise> \m/
23:14:35 <calamari> Windows XP... FTL
23:14:49 <karmicalise> calamari: Yeah, but I needed something that could, you know... do USB.
23:14:52 <karmicalise> It was on Windows 95.
23:15:00 <karmicalise> 463 MHz Pentium II Celeron, 64 MiB of RAM.
23:15:11 <karmicalise> Running Windows XP.
23:15:12 <CakeProphet> calamari: ah... so? What language would you prefer to use? I really don't prefer Python, I'm simply familiar with it. I'd rather learn a new language than use Python.
23:15:30 <calamari> karmicalise: so you think windows is the only os that can use USB? interesting
23:15:35 <zzo38> Is there a USB driver for FreeDOS? But not many programs are written in DOS these days
23:15:49 <zzo38> CakeProphet: Then learn Forth?
23:15:57 <karmicalise> calamari: It needed to run a Windows program.
23:16:00 <karmicalise> None of this is my choice.
23:16:01 <CakeProphet> zzo38: Sounds good. :)
23:16:03 <zzo38> I think it is worth it to learn Forth even if later you decide you don't like it and don't want it anymore.
23:16:22 <zzo38> I sometimes use Forth for some of my own things.
23:16:42 <CakeProphet> calamari: what do you want to use though? Python? Nothing else for the first version?
23:16:55 <zzo38> I have gforth, but I have also written additional Forth interpreters for other uses such as TAVSYS and MegaZeux.
23:16:57 <calamari> well I thik we're getting ahead of ourselves
23:17:01 <karmicalise> 07:26:28 <alise463> [Scene: Unit.] TEACHER: Here, look at the stuff on this USB stick over the weekend [hands USB stick with windows program on, displaying work and shit] 07:26:49 <alise463> ME: But teacher, all the computers I have at home are Macs! They will not run that program. [does not mention Linux for sheer having-to-explain-it-ness] 07:26:51 <alise463> TEACHER: Oh. Um. 07:26:58 <alise463> TEACHER: I have this old lapto
23:17:08 <calamari> first we need to define the VM asm
23:17:16 <CakeProphet> ah. okay.
23:17:19 <karmicalise> 07:27:08 <alise463> LAPTOP: Windows 95 -- Microsoft Internet Explorer 07:27:10 <AnMaster> hah 07:27:18 <alise463> ME: Yeah, I can get that working! [ha. ha. hahaha] 07:27:26 <Deewiant> :-D 07:27:27 <alise463> TEACHER: I'm not just wasting your time with this am I? This will be useful? 07:27:30 <alise463> ME: Absolutely.
23:17:25 <karmicalise> If you don't know what the unit is, that will make no sense.
23:17:25 <CakeProphet> register? stack? both? neither? :)
23:17:31 <karmicalise> So I'll assume you do, though you probably don't.
23:17:46 <karmicalise> CakeProphet: Stack of registers.
23:17:58 <zzo38> I like a kind of ASM that has both stack and registers
23:18:03 <CakeProphet> why not registers of stacks?
23:18:07 <karmicalise> Or that.
23:18:13 <karmicalise> Queue. :P
23:18:21 <zzo38> Maybe even two stacks
23:18:30 <CakeProphet> hmmm
23:18:34 <CakeProphet> a stack of registers of stacks.
23:18:35 <CakeProphet> there we go
23:18:49 <calamari> lol
23:19:05 <CakeProphet> I could probably write a full VM interpreter in Haskell actually...
23:19:29 <CakeProphet> wouldn't be very hard at all. Would be more efficient than Python by far.
23:19:42 <zzo38> Forth systems have at least two stacks. Gforth has four (or is it five? I don't know), and TAVSYS has three (the third is the object stack).
23:19:55 <karmicalise> CakeProphet: It will be slower without judicious use of either strictness annotations or reasoning based on an understanding of Haskell's execution semantics.
23:19:58 <karmicalise> Probably.
23:20:41 <CakeProphet> karmicalise: the latter is what I will use. :)
23:20:48 <karmicalise> CakeProphet: Then I hope you have such an understanding.
23:20:56 <karmicalise> Well, pikhq, you glorious bastard: I intend to beat the shit out of your coreutils!
23:21:02 <CakeProphet> Haskell is going to be faster than Python... in almost every situation.
23:21:16 <CakeProphet> judicious use of strictness annotations would be if you are trying to rival C
23:21:59 <zzo38> Surely using ASM and/or machine-codes is more faster (but only if you understand what you are doing!!)
23:22:07 <CakeProphet> well yes
23:22:18 <CakeProphet> the question wasn't which is faster, merely what language we wanted to use.
23:22:36 <CakeProphet> Haskell just /happens/ to be faster than Python. We could write the first VM interpreter in either.
23:22:55 <karmicalise> Haskell is a lot more pathological than Python though; it's often hard to predict performance.
23:22:59 <karmicalise> Laziness can be poisonous.
23:23:37 <zzo38> I suppose you use Haskell if you want the VM to be mathematically correct?
23:24:23 <Gregor> s/correct/provable/
23:24:44 <zzo38> Yes, "provable" is what it is, I think
23:24:53 <CakeProphet> karmicalise: I'm not sure laziness will be a problem. There are strict versions of many data structures / monads that gain performance benefits from being strictly evaluated.
23:24:56 <karmicalise> zzo38: Haskell doesn't make things much easier to prove with.
23:25:02 <karmicalise> That's a common misconception.
23:25:07 <zzo38> I didn't mean "easier to prove"!
23:25:10 <karmicalise> CakeProphet: Well, naivety is a gift. :-)
23:25:34 <zzo38> I just mean provable. Just being provable doesn't mean it is easy to prove (or any easier than anything else)
23:26:05 <CakeProphet> karmicalise: I prefer not to prematurely optimize, especially when the first interpreter isn't intended to be the standalone.
23:26:18 <Gregor> IIRC Haskell has no formal semantics.
23:26:19 <karmicalise> CakeProphet: Noble, but do watch out.
23:26:22 <Gregor> To which I say "haw"
23:28:25 <karmicalise> Gregor: Obviously it /has/ them, but I don't know that anyone's laid them out.
23:28:26 <CakeProphet> calamari: alright. So here's what I propose. We/you brainstorm a VM design, and then we write it up in whatever language (I'd prefer Haskell as it's what I'm currently working with, but I'm up for anything). Once we finish the first VM we can start playing around with it and changing the design before we build the low-level interpreter.
23:28:33 <zzo38> Do you like how Enhanced CWEB prints the line numbers?
23:28:48 <Gregor> karmicalise: ... that statement makes no sense.
23:29:06 <CakeProphet> calamari: admittedly, with Haskell, performance is harder to measure. But it can be done.
23:29:31 <CakeProphet> but a lazy VM sounds fun. :)
23:29:38 <calamari> I'm not really worried about performance
23:29:47 <calamari> this will be a toy
23:29:55 <zzo38> karmicalise: I think Haskell has at least enough formal semantics to be provable, but maybe not more than that
23:29:56 <karmicalise> Gregor: It doesn't.
23:30:35 <zzo38> Otherwise the program would not run
23:30:46 * Gregor bashes everyone.
23:30:53 <Gregor> "Formal semantics" != "semantics"
23:30:56 <calamari> CakeProphet: the only performance I'm worried about is actually getting code written.. if I'm trying to learn a new lang, that isn't going to help :)
23:31:02 <Gregor> "Formal semantics" = "semantics which have been formalized"
23:31:11 <CakeProphet> lazy evaluation creates pathological memory consumption more so than computation time.
23:31:51 <karmicalise> Gregor: Well, yes.
23:32:12 <karmicalise> Haskell obviously /has/ a formal definition of its semantics. It's just as of yet unpublished.
23:32:36 <CakeProphet> There is a "Hask" category
23:32:50 <karmicalise> Not really. :P
23:32:54 <Gregor> That's not necessarily true. Subtle differences in the different implementations of Haskell could negate that (depend on whether such subtle differences exist).
23:32:57 <karmicalise> It's defined inside Haskell, which is cheating.
23:33:03 <Gregor> Plus, it's an awfully philosophical statement :P
23:33:10 <karmicalise> Gregor: Only because you haven't specified which definition of "Haskell" you're using.
23:33:17 <karmicalise> If you specify it exactly enough, all implementations are equivalent.
23:33:34 <CakeProphet> calamari: if you're like me, learning new languages isn't too hard. But what langage do you prefer?
23:33:44 <Gregor> English!
23:34:12 <CakeProphet> calamari: if you decide on a language you'd like to use, I'll work with it.
23:34:38 <karmicalise> Wow, writing truly elegant C is ... difficult.
23:34:44 <calamari> CakeProphet: I suppose I misspoke.. I can learn new langs.. but will I actually be productive in it?
23:35:29 <calamari> CakeProphet: and hat's kinda hard to predict :)
23:35:34 <CakeProphet> calamari: ah. yes. I suppose. It did take me a while to become productive in Haskell. Mostly the theoretical obstacles, but it turns out you can just ignore those and just call the relevant functions. :)
23:36:09 <karmicalise> Mumble embodies everything wrong with Haskell mumble
23:36:12 <karmicalise> *mumble.
23:36:27 <calamari> okay so 32-bit registers and 32-bit pointers, to make life easier?
23:36:33 <CakeProphet> ha. "everything wrong with Haskell". that's a large statement.
23:36:39 <karmicalise> 33-bit
23:36:43 <karmicalise> it's one better
23:36:49 <Zuu> its a bit better
23:36:50 <CakeProphet> calamari: sure.
23:37:06 <karmicalise> precisely
23:37:07 <CakeProphet> calamari: NO MEAN 64-BIT IS THE NEW AGE THIS IS A ENTERPRISE OS.
23:37:15 <calamari> LOL
23:37:17 <CakeProphet> *man
23:37:38 <Zuu> do both, along side each other
23:37:56 <Gregor> 18-bit
23:37:57 <calamari> well I was going to suggest 16 bit :P
23:38:17 <Zuu> i've always be fond of 17½ bit
23:38:20 <CakeProphet> ha. whatever works.
23:38:31 <karmicalise> Q: if(argc <= 1 || strcmp(argv[1], "-n")) -- confusing condition?
23:38:38 <karmicalise> The strcmp without a !, in particular.
23:38:55 <zzo38> 888ASM is good for 16-bit progrma on x86, but there are currently some things missing it is not as good for 32-bit and no good at all for 64-bits.
23:39:12 <zzo38> But maybe make a sqrt(-4pi) bits operating system
23:39:39 <calamari> thankyou guys for the entertaining peanut gallery
23:39:48 <karmicalise> calamari: Boo! Booooo!
23:39:52 <CakeProphet> karmicalise: no. not confusing. well, maybe a little.
23:40:54 <CakeProphet> strcmp occasionally throws me off because of !
23:40:58 <zzo38> If strcmp without ! is confusing, then you should make it so that it does special optimizations with bool type and then define the preprocessor macro
23:41:05 <CakeProphet> but that's strcmp in general, not that condition.
23:41:28 <karmicalise> well exactly, people read "strcmp foo bar" and think foo==bar
23:41:30 <karmicalise> the ! is just noise
23:42:24 <zzo38> Then write a preprocessor macro to help (if it does special optimiziations with bool), or make it clearly by writing !=0 after
23:42:49 <karmicalise> Mm, maybe.
23:42:52 <karmicalise> > 0, might be better.
23:43:16 <zzo38> But that won't work if it is negative
23:43:32 <zzo38> C is not Game Maker!
23:43:44 <CakeProphet> calamari: so what's the plan?
23:44:04 <calamari> CakeProphet: sorry, been working on the asm
23:44:05 <zzo38> The plan is plan nine-and-three-quarters
23:44:13 <karmicalise> Does strcmp return negative values?
23:44:22 <CakeProphet> yes
23:44:26 <CakeProphet> -1,0,1
23:44:41 <Zuu> karmicalise: it compares the two strings for lexical ordering
23:45:07 <Gregor> strcmp is strCMP
23:45:44 <zzo38> After I make the Enhanced CWEB meta-macro language, then perhaps we can see whether or not it can be written something like that to fix that
23:45:55 <zzo38> If you don't want that, just use !! instead
23:46:05 <zzo38> And hope the optimizer works
23:46:13 <CakeProphet> !haskell [1..] >>= swap replicateM ['a'..'z']
23:46:39 <CakeProphet> parse error: possibly incorrect indentation
23:46:41 <CakeProphet> ...
23:46:44 <zzo38> It is being used in a boolean context so even if it doesn't use bool type, it should be OK for optimizer might be able to optimize if you put !! at front
23:47:02 <zzo38> So, you can write !!strcmp
23:47:08 <CakeProphet> !haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ [1..] >>= swap replicateM ['a'..'z']
23:47:10 -!- Oranjer has joined.
23:47:28 <CakeProphet> !haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ [1..] >>= flip replicateM ['a'..'z']
23:47:57 <CakeProphet> ...I now realize this is probably a very computational intense operation.
23:47:57 <calamari> CakeProphet: well, here's the plan as I see it 1) devise the asm 2) write an assembler for it 3) test it in a basic vm 4) write a compiler for it from some esolang 5) try that out 6) based on our experiences with 1-5, decide on what the vm will look like 7) I hope get get that far
23:48:22 <calamari> *we get
23:48:29 <zzo38> Maybe I should make Enhanced CWEB treat !! as a single operator and print it in a special way (in case you don't want it printed in this special, you can put a space ! ! instead)
23:48:42 <CakeProphet> calamari: so is the asm the vm language?
23:48:45 <karmicalise> zzo38: well, !! is as-bool
23:49:05 <calamari> CakeProphet: the machine code based on the asm, my bad
23:49:33 <zzo38> I can see which mathematical symbol in Plain TeX I can use for that purpose
23:49:43 <CakeProphet> !haskell import Control.Monad; main = print $ [1..] >>= flip replicateM "abc"
23:50:07 <karmicalise> Er, wait, how does one obtain the error whose presence ferror detects?
23:50:19 <karmicalise> zzo38: Which?
23:50:19 <calamari> CakeProphet: what do you think? does that sound like a good starting plan?
23:50:50 <CakeProphet> calamari: I think. for some reason your wording confused me. I thought we were just making a VM? Typically I refer to "the VM" as including the language that it runs off of.
23:50:52 -!- ais523 has joined.
23:50:57 <karmicalise> hi ais523!
23:51:04 <ais523> hi
23:51:19 <zzo38> But for the strcmp, you might instead write @d streq !strcmp (if you are using plain C you can write #define instead of @d)
23:51:26 <ais523> karmicalise: should I interpret your nick as "not lucid", or some other way?
23:51:31 <zzo38> karmicalise: Which? Of what are you asking?
23:51:35 <karmicalise> ais523: I'm running 10.04.
23:51:40 <karmicalise> zzo38: Which symbol?
23:51:45 <karmicalise> ais523: i'll ask you, then: how does one obtain the error whose presence ferror() detects? The functions don't set errno, apparently.
23:51:47 <karmicalise> *I'll
23:51:51 <zzo38> karmicalise: I don't know yet I have to figure out
23:51:58 <calamari> CakeProphet: well the vm is going to have to run some kind of machine code.. so we can either reuse an existing one or invent our own.. which would you prefer?
23:52:03 <karmicalise> Wait, oh.
23:52:08 <ais523> karmicalise: 10.04 is nicknamed "lucid lynx"
23:52:12 <karmicalise> zzo38: Ah.
23:52:13 <karmicalise> ais523: Oh.
23:52:14 <ais523> you can see why I'm confused
23:52:15 -!- karmicalise has changed nick to lucidalise.
23:52:39 <zzo38> If you have a suggestion which symbol I can consider it.
23:52:39 <ais523> lucidalise: there's a ferror and feof flag in the FILE structure, in most implementations
23:52:46 <calamari> CakeProphet: I'm open to either, but I'd prefer something rather simplistic
23:53:03 <CakeProphet> calamari: ah okay. So you use "machine code" to refer to the VMs language, while the VM is the machine itself. That makes sense. Hmmm... I'd rather write a custom VM. I don't know much about existing VMs, but Erlang's BEAM is good. Parrot is neat but I think more suited to dynamically typed languages.
23:53:10 <ais523> if you try to read from a file and something goes wrong, then the ferror flag gets set#
23:53:23 <ais523> likewise, if you try to read but it's at EOF, it returns EOF and the feof flag gets set
23:53:40 <ais523> I can't remember offhand what causes the flags to be reset, though
23:54:09 -!- Gregor has changed nick to siduxgor.
23:54:15 <siduxgor> Sidux doesn't have stupid nicknames.
23:54:18 <CakeProphet> calamari: I believe BEAM has the nice property of being easy to run standalone.
23:54:20 <siduxgor> Because sidux is a true rolling release.
23:54:22 <siduxgor> Bam.
23:54:25 <CakeProphet> but it's poorly documented from what I remember.
23:54:32 <lucidalise> siduxgor: "Wah wah wah wah wah".
23:54:35 <lucidalise> I use Arch, so shut it.
23:54:46 <siduxgor> I AM A DEBIAN ZEALOT
23:54:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:54:49 <CakeProphet> !haskell print "test"
23:54:49 <siduxgor> ZEALOT ZEALOT ZEALOT
23:54:51 <EgoBot> "test"
23:54:52 <siduxgor> PS <3 GNU
23:55:00 <lucidalise> Die.
23:55:00 -!- augur has joined.
23:55:02 <siduxgor> :P
23:55:08 <calamari> siduxgor: why aren't you running hurd?
23:55:08 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like cancer, only worse!
23:55:12 <oerjan> !haskell mapM_ print [1..]
23:55:14 <EgoBot> 1
23:55:17 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like the holocaust, only worse!
23:55:18 <siduxgor> calamari: Because Hurd sucks X-P
23:55:20 <CakeProphet> !haskell Control.Monad.replicateM 3 "abc"
23:55:22 <EgoBot> ["aaa","aab","aac","aba","abb","abc","aca","acb","acc","baa","bab","bac","bba","bbb","bbc","bca","bcb","bcc","caa","cab","cac","cba","cbb","cbc","cca","ccb","ccc"]
23:55:25 <calamari> siduxgor: but it's GNU!
23:55:28 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like the Armenian genocide, only worse!
23:55:32 <siduxgor> calamari: I also use vim
23:55:36 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like Bush's war crimes, only worse!
23:55:40 <oerjan> CakeProphet: EgoBot does _not_ handle infinite output with no newlines
23:55:51 <siduxgor> EgoBot does not handle infinite output.
23:55:52 <siduxgor> Period.
23:55:53 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like the growing damage caused by globalised neoliberal capitalism, only worse!
23:55:58 <lucidalise> GNU: It's like GNU, only worse!
23:56:17 <siduxgor> GNU: It's awesome. <3
23:56:32 <oerjan> siduxgor: my mapM_ print [1..] worked fine. though of course it cut off.
23:56:34 <zzo38> GNU is not bad but there is some problems and different opinion
23:56:47 <zzo38> I don't like GNU long options, is one thing
23:56:49 <ais523> GNU stuff varies a lot in quality
23:56:50 <calamari> ooh.. what's a neoliberal?
23:57:11 <zzo38> ais523: Yes
23:57:11 <siduxgor> calamari: If its meaning is derived from that of "neoconservative", it means "not liberal"
23:57:12 <lucidalise> calamari: Evil?
23:57:12 <CakeProphet> !haskell [1..3] >>= flip Control.Monad.replicateM ['a'..'z']
23:57:15 <EgoBot> ["a","b","c","d","e","f","g","h","i","j","k","l","m","n","o","p","q","r","s","t","u","v","w","x","y","z","aa","ab","ac","ad","ae","af","ag","ah","ai","aj","ak","al","am","an","ao","ap","aq","ar","as","at","au","av","aw","ax","ay","az","ba","bb","bc","bd","be","bf","bg","bh","bi","bj","bk","bl","bm","bn","bo","bp","bq","br","bs","bt","bu","bv","bw","bx","by","bz","ca","cb","cc","cd","ce","cf","cg","ch","ci","cj","ck","cl","cm","cn","co","cp","cq","cr","
23:57:17 <CakeProphet> :)
23:57:20 <lucidalise> siduxgor: Pretty much.
23:57:34 <CakeProphet> I am leet password cracker.
23:57:36 <lucidalise> Neoliberalism is the philosophy espoused by those in charge of the global banks, etc.
23:58:17 <zzo38> I don't describe GNU as liberal or conservative, because liberal and conservative words describe different things instead
23:58:31 <CakeProphet> in fact I am too leet for EgoBot. Not handling infinite output? wtf. Doesn't /every/ IRC bot handle infinite output?
23:58:40 <siduxgor> :P
23:58:44 <siduxgor> `echo Oh nose!
23:58:53 <HackEgo> Oh nose!
23:59:04 <lucidalise> zzo38: I was merely comparing it to the damage caused by neoliberalism.
23:59:04 <CakeProphet> HackEgo was sleeping on the job
23:59:08 <CakeProphet> but fungot never fails to be prompt.
23:59:12 <zzo38> lucidalise: OK
23:59:14 <CakeProphet> ...
23:59:17 <CakeProphet> except now apparently.
23:59:28 <zzo38> I don't like GNU long options that is why I wrote ARGOPT
23:59:29 <lucidalise> fungot: Got my funges.
23:59:30 <fungot> lucidalise: by h. p. lovecraft and fnord h. fnord
23:59:35 <siduxgor> date --iso
23:59:36 <siduxgor> cp -a
23:59:37 <lucidalise> :-D
23:59:40 <lucidalise> Fnord H. Fnord.
23:59:48 <CakeProphet> ^style
23:59:48 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube
23:59:51 <CakeProphet> ^style youtube
23:59:51 <fungot> Selected style: youtube (Some YouTube comments)
23:59:53 <lucidalise> siduxgor: hello --mail
23:59:57 <CakeProphet> hey fungot what's the word
23:59:58 <fungot> CakeProphet: i can't bother with any sort of crap. nice try tho, oh no... lol but i totally effing love these guys get molly sims react to samberg jizzing in his hole!!
←2010-07-10 2010-07-11 2010-07-12→ ↑2010 ↑all