←2010-07-18 2010-07-19 2010-07-20→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:16 <alise> pikhq: Ξ Windows won't have that problem.
00:00:31 <alise> Or is it Ψ Windows?
00:00:44 <Sgeo> Neither will MS Windows
00:00:45 <Sgeo> >.>
00:00:45 <zzo38> hypernet:<access_type>/<routing_data>/<key_mode>.<key_data>[.<key_numeric_1>.<key_numeric_2>][/<subkey_data>]
00:01:34 <pikhq> alise: "Hmm. No caps lock key. SET IT ON! FUCK YEAH!"
00:01:35 <pikhq> Ughh.
00:01:55 <Sgeo> Someone should make a ... thingy that X11 is one of, that's compatible with X but supports.. betterness
00:01:55 <alise> pikhq: So, do tell me. What exactly is 2D acceleration except for "not having a stupid graphical server in between me and the hardware"?
00:02:11 <alise> Sgeo: being compatible with X11 implies suckiness.
00:02:37 <pikhq> alise: You can request that the hardware render things to the framebuffer instead of your CPU.
00:02:45 <Sgeo> Only thingies that use the X compatibility need suck!
00:02:50 <alise> pikhq: Hm?
00:02:53 <zzo38> Hypernet URLs are case-insensitive (normally all uppercase except the "hypernet:" at the beginning), access_type is alphabetical, routing_data is zero or more unbounded nonnegative integers with dots in between, key_mode is alphabetical, key_data is alphabetical, key_numeric_ is numeric, subkey_data alternates numerics and alphabetics seperated by dots (starting with numeric).
00:02:57 <alise> pikhq: You mean that isn't how it usually works?
00:03:15 <alise> pikhq: Surely the video card just maps a certain part of memory to video memory?
00:03:25 <pikhq> alise: Without 2D acceleration, you write to the framebuffer. And that's all.
00:03:51 <pikhq> With 2D acceleration, you can have the video card itself perform operations onto the framebuffer.
00:03:56 <Ilari> zzo38: Is there some page describing that?
00:03:57 <alise> pikhq: Like what?
00:04:05 <alise> Surely CPUs are so fast nowadays that for 2D it doesn't matter...
00:04:48 <pikhq> Scaling, antialiasing, rotating, alpha channel...
00:04:56 <coppro> huh
00:05:04 <coppro> apparently there's an shttp
00:05:12 <Ilari> coppro: Yup.
00:05:12 <pikhq> Blitting...
00:05:13 <alise> pikhq: And ... the video card is faster at these than a modern CPU ... how?
00:05:15 <zzo38> Ilari: No. Not yet
00:05:17 <alise> That's just .. vector operations.
00:05:17 <zzo38> Sorry
00:05:23 <alise> I mean, for 3D, yes. But for 2D?
00:05:34 <pikhq> alise: Video cards are exceptionally, exceptionally good at vector operations.
00:05:46 <pikhq> Oh, oh. Also, color space changes.
00:05:48 <alise> pikhq: Yes, but...
00:06:01 <alise> pikhq: How complex would a 2D game have to be for the speed of these operations on a modern CPU vs video card to matter?
00:06:07 <pikhq> It was much more relevant 10 years ago than it is today.
00:06:09 <alise> And would it be humanly playable?
00:06:43 <alise> pikhq: Also question: Why are mouse buttons treat as anything but special keypresses?
00:06:53 <Ilari> zzo38: What is even goal of hypernet keys? DS is probably indirecting request to data using signatures and static data is probably binding via hash.
00:07:01 <pikhq> alise: Basically, the only thing that matters much with 2D acceleration any more involves video.
00:07:27 <alise> pikhq: You're telling me a CPU can't sustain 30 fps?
00:07:35 <alise> With super-optimised memcpy to video memory, say?
00:07:56 <pikhq> Transforming CMYK to RGB, or video scaling, or actual video display from an MPEG stream.
00:08:13 <pikhq> alise: Yes, but it takes CPU time that could be better spent doing something else.
00:08:32 <alise> pikhq: Yes, but on the other hand, this speed obsession produces DRIVERS.
00:08:35 <pikhq> Or, in the case of Flash (which implements all this piss-poorly), doing *fuck all*.
00:08:37 <alise> Have you ever used video drivers? Do you still have a soul?
00:08:47 <alise> I am pretty sure the answers are "yes, no" and this is no coincidence.
00:09:16 * Sgeo decides he should ignore alise's idea of morality, unless it's code morality
00:09:27 <pikhq> alise: If you are only going to use well-written software for video rendering, then there is no need for 2D acceleration on vaguely modern hardware.
00:09:30 <alise> Sgeo: what is my idea of morality?
00:09:52 <alise> pikhq: Right then. No hardware accel. in Arbitrary Greek Letter Windows.
00:10:00 <pikhq> For instance: mplayer is exceptionally good at displaying video.
00:10:07 <pikhq> Flash sucks giant donkey balls at it.
00:10:13 <alise> pikhq: (3D will be handled firstly, not at all, and later, by letting you say "Okay, I am going to do insane shit now".)
00:10:36 <Sgeo> YOu seem to have implied that using video card drivers is immoral. Whether it is or not, using blobs is pretty much a necessity
00:10:40 <alise> (The WM will then be expected to hand over a chunk of raw video memory corresponding to your window, and access to the video hardware, to you.)
00:10:43 <pikhq> alise: Oh, you can handle 3D just fine. Just use Mesa.
00:10:45 <alise> Sgeo: I did not imply that.
00:10:56 <alise> I implied that using video drivers is fucking painful.
00:11:01 <alise> They break a lot and they suck.
00:11:13 <alise> pikhq: That's slow. :P
00:11:14 <pikhq> If Mesa wants to do crazy shit instead of just software rendering, well, that's it's darned mess.
00:11:33 <pikhq> alise: Mesa is the backend for all free-software 3D.
00:11:45 <alise> pikhq: I thought you meant software rendering.
00:11:51 <alise> pikhq: Anyway, how does Mesa handle acceleration in a window?
00:11:54 <alise> Is the answer "not"?
00:11:57 <pikhq> Mesa does 3D in general.
00:12:29 <zzo38> Ilari: Yes statis data is binding via hash
00:12:34 <zzo38> s/statis/static/
00:12:36 <pikhq> It'll software render if it has to, it'll do crazy shit if it has to. It takes care of the crazy shit.
00:12:50 <alise> pikhq: How...?
00:12:59 <Sgeo> Active Worlds in WINE had some issues with attempting to render 3d in a part of a window
00:13:07 <alise> pikhq: "Here is video memory. (Actually, it's some memory belonging to the WM that it will blit to a window for you.)"
00:13:22 <alise> How does Mesa go from that to "ha ha, I am drawing accelerated 3D all over my window area, video memory"
00:13:24 <zzo38> And digital signatures does mean binding by signatures, that it can be changed in the future by whoever has permission to modify it
00:13:28 <pikhq> alise: Oh, yeah... Uh. That might break its acceleration.
00:13:40 <alise> pikhq: So it needs direct access to a chunk of video memory, right?
00:13:56 <pikhq> Yeah, it needs access to DRI.
00:14:15 <alise> pikhq: What, the full DRI stuff?
00:14:22 <alise> DRI is X only...
00:14:23 <zzo38> And then also "W" key mode, which means "wiki", allows everyone to edit
00:14:24 <Ilari> zzo38: Well, both need double the number of bits relative to safety level, so at least 160 bits (256 if you want some security margin).
00:14:33 <pikhq> alise: Sorry, DRM.
00:14:43 <pikhq> That's the kernel-side stuff.
00:15:10 <alise> pikhq: So how would my system support it?
00:15:19 * pikhq looks
00:15:21 <zzo38> Ilari: Thanks, but is 256 enough?
00:15:24 <alise> A request to the window system saying "plox gimme direct video memory plez".
00:15:25 <alise> ?
00:16:03 <pikhq> alise: It would require some trickery, but you could do the same sort of thing that the Xcomposite does.
00:16:17 <alise> pikhq: What's that?
00:16:41 <zzo38> Perhaps I can allow a variable number of bits
00:16:41 <pikhq> alise: Uses a GL extension to allow you to accelerate rendering frames to physical memory.
00:17:10 <alise> pikhq: I think handling 3D is too much of a bitch to deal with to start with.
00:17:39 <alise> pikhq: Oh, and is there a reason that the mouse isn't just two integers in memory that you can read as often as you want (but it'll stay the same if you read quicker than the mouse update speed)?
00:17:46 <alise> Like, any reason at all?
00:18:30 <pikhq> alise: No.
00:18:38 <Ilari> zzo38: Since for static case, one hash suffices and for DS case you can treat the signature as static data.
00:18:44 <alise> pikhq: Right. Thought so.
00:19:22 <Madk> Is voxelperfect.net broken, or is it just me?
00:19:33 <alise> Madk: http://esolangs.org/ should work fine.
00:19:46 <zzo38> Ilari: OK.
00:20:14 <Madk> It doesn't :/
00:20:19 <alise> Madk: dunno then
00:20:42 <Madk> Is anyone else having the same problem?
00:20:43 <alise> pikhq: Hmm, what's a good keyboard interface? Can't just be one memory location, can't just be one location per key; we need some kind of notification mechanism, but I'm trying to keep this simple.
00:20:58 <alise> Madk: now that you mention it...
00:21:03 <alise> GRAUEEEEEEEEEE!
00:21:05 <alise> Fix it!
00:21:15 <alise> graue graue graue (he apperas if you call him three times)
00:21:25 <zzo38> Another idea in hypernet is all files (including static files) are encrypted, and that hypernet packets can be sent using anything (TCP/IP, UDP, e-mail, HTTP, FTP, fax machine, printed barcodes in books, ham radio, etc)
00:22:02 <Madk> Didn't work
00:22:07 <zzo38> For a static file, if you happen to already have a copy (even if you don't know it yet, because it is encrypted), you might be able to retrieve it without sending or receiving anything from anywhere else.
00:22:20 <zzo38> For files that can change, you might still be able to do this, but it might be a older version
00:23:38 <zzo38> You might use a command-line tool to receive/send/request files (and other commands) using hypernet, or the web-browser might support hypernet URLs, or whatever else
00:23:45 <Madk> site is back online
00:24:18 -!- jcp_xc2 has joined.
00:25:10 <zzo38> Hypernet shall be fully decentralized, with no dependencies on centralized services, and also entirely free and complete specifications available in the public domain for anyone to read, with only one central authority being the standards organization, to publish the documents describing the protocols, nothing else.
00:25:47 <coppro> Madk: duh
00:25:51 <coppro> you forgot B A START
00:25:56 <zzo38> Even if the government censors internet, they will be unable to censor hypernet!
00:26:36 <alise> zzo38 is just designing freenet
00:26:50 -!- jcp_xc2 has changed nick to jcp_x.
00:27:10 <alise> dammit this laptop is so perfect i love it
00:27:13 <zzo38> (Another way to transfer hypernet, is using floppy disks or USB file system devices, where the computer you attach it to will read/write the files on it, in order to send you the response (if it knows it), and to pass it on to other disks)
00:27:54 <zzo38> Standard file formats are mostly plain text and gzip (and other compression tools), no HTML or anything like that (although they can still be used if you want to)
00:28:10 <alise> what has happened to the trackpad though
00:28:21 <alise> pikhq: occasionally my tracks happen in reverse then get stuck
00:28:22 <alise> wut?
00:29:29 <alise> also sometimes the mouse just dances around
00:29:38 <pikhq> Wut?
00:30:52 <alise> pikhq: i think it is maybe sweaty or something distorting tracking
00:31:08 <alise> indeed
00:31:11 <alise> using another part of my hand works
00:34:45 <alise> coppro: ping
00:34:58 <alise> coppro: what was that level of secrecy parodied on agora? UNIVERSALLY TOP SECRET or something
00:35:02 <alise> GALACTICALLY SECRET maybe
00:35:22 <Sgeo> That creepy shadow contract is dead!
00:35:31 <Sgeo> Or, well, not enforced by Agoran law
00:41:43 <coppro> alise: don't know
00:41:45 <coppro> Sgeo: ZOMBIE
00:41:56 <coppro> oh, the one parodied?
00:41:59 <coppro> COSMIC TOP SECRET
00:42:02 <coppro> the highest NATO classification
00:42:44 <alise> hmm
00:42:53 <alise> i wonder what goethe's argument would be for U.N.D.E.A.D. still existing?
00:43:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:43:10 <Sgeo> I think I was referred to U.N.D.E.A.D.
00:43:30 <alise> Sgeo: probably there is an argument that it will start existing again when contracts are reintroduced
00:43:43 <alise> after all, nobody seriously argues when goethe claimed it retroactively changed itself way back when.
00:44:28 <alise> FUCK YOU TRACKPAD
00:44:30 <alise> pikhq: MAKE IT WORK
00:51:41 -!- Madk has quit (Quit: Leaving).
00:58:44 <cheater99> alise: do you have a synaptics touchpad?
00:59:44 <cheater99> alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise alise
00:59:50 <cheater99> why isn't she saying anything
01:00:18 <alise> i have a synaptics touchpad.
01:02:03 <alise> cheater99: why?
01:02:16 <cheater99> is that what doesn't work?
01:02:26 <cheater99> because mine doesn't work either
01:02:29 <cheater99> but only in lunix
01:02:34 <cheater99> it works in freakin windows
01:04:28 <cheater99> aliseEeEeEeEeEEeeeEE?
01:04:33 <cheater99> :<
01:05:19 <alise> it works
01:05:22 <alise> it just has an issue
01:05:57 <cheater99> oh
01:05:58 <cheater99> what issue?
01:06:01 <cheater99> maybe i know how to fix it
01:09:03 <alise> it sometimes moves the opposite direction i do. movement often stops, then jerks around a lot if i move some more.
01:09:09 <alise> almost impossible to move correctly.
01:09:22 <cheater99> try changing from relative to absolute mode
01:09:28 <cheater99> or the other way around
01:09:33 <cheater99> i think you do it with synclient
01:10:31 <alise> i don't think it's in a different mode
01:10:41 <cheater99> there are two modes for the synaptics touchpad
01:12:54 <alise> how can i change it? no such var in synclient, or it seems so
01:12:54 <alise> from -l
01:18:10 <alise> cheater99
01:18:22 <cheater99> hm
01:18:24 <cheater99> just a sec
01:23:36 <cheater99> i can't remember :-<
01:23:44 <cheater99> http://lwn.net/Articles/38505/ looks similar to your problem
01:23:56 <cheater99> also: http://www.pubbs.net/200911/fedora/24583-xorg-synaptics-touchpad-and-absoluterelative-mode.html
01:25:04 <alise> it's not always reversed
01:25:05 <alise> only sometimes
01:25:53 <alise> It appears to be fixed.
01:25:57 <alise> Nope.
01:29:54 <alise> cheater99: that command doesn't do a thing
01:30:05 <alise> pikhq: So, question. How would you structure a keyboard interface?
01:30:55 <cheater99> what ever you do make sure at least one of the most useful shortcuts is impossible on some keyboard
01:31:02 <cheater99> (because of matrix limitations)
01:31:08 <pikhq> alise: I haven't a clue.
01:31:19 <pikhq> cheater99: As an API for accessing a keyboard.
01:32:28 <cheater99> o.
01:32:45 <cheater99> hey alise, want to help me figure out why my synaptics touchpad doesn't work?
01:32:56 <alise> cheater99: no, but i will.
01:33:02 <cheater99> <3
01:33:05 <Sgeo> I actually used my own independent judgement today!
01:33:11 <cheater99> impossible!
01:33:13 <Sgeo> [Well, kind of. I did rely on WOT]
01:33:30 <Sgeo> But I didn't go into any chatrooms to ask if a website was trustworthy, and it's a matter of some importance
01:35:25 <alise> What website?
01:35:30 <cheater99> alise: how do we get around to it?
01:35:40 <alise> cheater99: first tell me the model of the trackpad.
01:35:49 <cheater99> it's just a synaptics ps/2 thing
01:35:52 <cheater99> there's no specific model
01:36:24 <alise> yes, there is.
01:36:28 <alise> probably.
01:36:32 <alise> okay so what distro are you using
01:36:36 <cheater99> ubuntu
01:36:41 <cheater99> 10.04 right now
01:36:53 <cheater99> it worked in i think 9.04 or 8.something
01:37:24 <cheater99> here's an email between me and someone i thought might know http://pastebin.com/cm8CehM8
01:38:13 <cheater99> turns out he didn't :|
01:38:24 <alise> try ubuntu 10.04 livecd
01:38:30 <alise> unplug mice
01:38:31 <cheater99> i have
01:38:33 <cheater99> it didn't work
01:38:41 <alise> what happens when you run "xinput list"
01:38:45 <cheater99> i think at some point they broke the kernel
01:38:49 <alise> wrong
01:38:50 <alise> works for me
01:39:42 <cheater99> it's listed
01:39:45 <cheater99> should i paste it in here
01:39:48 <cheater99> it's 6 lines.
01:40:06 <alise> yes
01:40:10 <cheater99> # xinput list
01:40:10 <cheater99> ⎡ Virtual core pointer id=2[master pointer (3)]
01:40:10 <cheater99> ⎜ ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer id=4[slave pointer (2)]
01:40:10 <cheater99> ⎜ ↳ Logitech USB Laser Mouse id=9[slave pointer (2)]
01:40:10 <cheater99> ⎜ ↳ SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad id=12[slave pointer (2)]
01:40:11 <cheater99> ⎜ ↳ Macintosh mouse button emulation id=13[slave pointer (2)]
01:40:37 <cheater99> (keyboard is listed afterwards)
01:40:41 <Sgeo> alise, nymag.com, particularly http://nymag.com/bestdoctors/
01:41:18 <cheater99> nymag sounds like the name of a chinese province
01:42:40 <alise> cheater99: it should work
01:42:50 <cheater99> doesn't
01:43:05 <cheater99> works in windows (well it did, but now 'doze is broken so i can't boot into it)
01:43:19 <cheater99> it worked in windows for months while not working under ubuntu
01:43:23 <cheater99> so i'm certain ubuntu is broken
01:43:51 <alise> cheater99: i have a synaptics touchpad. i use ubuntu 10.04.
01:43:52 <alise> it works.
01:43:58 <alise> you have a problem.
01:44:05 <cheater99> yes
01:44:09 <cheater99> what is your driver?
01:44:24 <cheater99> lsmod | grep synaptics
01:44:44 <alise> produces no output :)
01:45:00 <alise> "psmouse", I would bet.
01:45:20 <cheater99> aha
01:45:21 <cheater99> weird
01:46:33 <cheater99> what dev does yours spit info out to?
01:48:13 <cheater99> and if you cat it, do you see anything?
01:49:34 -!- jillsmitt has joined.
01:49:59 <cheater99> (you can check the device with cat /proc/bus/input/devices)
01:52:03 <alise> you don't have to teach me linux :P
01:52:23 <cheater99> i just wanted to be friendly :(
01:52:30 <alise> sok :)
01:52:55 <cheater99> so what do you get
01:53:04 <alise> can't seem to find a device file
01:53:18 <cheater99> cat /proc/bus/input/devices
01:53:21 <alise> i know
01:53:26 <cheater99> it says synaptics
01:53:31 <cheater99> and under that handlers=
01:53:32 <alise> i know
01:53:45 <cheater99> I: Bus=0011 Vendor=0002 Product=0007 Version=25b1
01:53:45 <cheater99> N: Name="SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad"
01:53:45 <cheater99> P: Phys=isa0060/serio4/input0
01:53:45 <cheater99> S: Sysfs=/devices/platform/i8042/serio4/input/input8
01:53:45 <cheater99> U: Uniq=
01:53:46 <cheater99> H: Handlers=mouse2 event8
01:53:48 <cheater99> B: EV=b
01:53:50 <cheater99> B: KEY=6420 0 70000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
01:53:52 <cheater99> B: ABS=11000003
01:54:01 <cheater99> what does yours say?
01:54:02 <alise> but e.g. /dev/input/mouse1 never yields anything
01:54:11 <alise> nor does /dev/input/event6
01:54:16 <cheater99> does yours say /dev/input/mouse1
01:54:17 <cheater99> ?
01:54:22 <alise> Handlers=mouse1 event6
01:54:26 <cheater99> aha
01:54:30 <cheater99> mine doesn't say anything either
01:54:36 <cheater99> so maybe i was wrong
01:54:37 <alise> very curious
01:54:40 <cheater99> and i have just had a configuration issue
01:54:50 <alise> cheater99: perhaps X11 is "eating" all the input somehow, though that'd be an awful violation of everything if that can actually happen
01:54:51 <cheater99> but your touchpad does work
01:54:52 <cheater99> doesn't it
01:54:53 <cheater99> ?
01:54:54 <alise> cheater99: what's your Xorg.conf
01:55:02 <alise> yes, it works, apart from this glitch which is almost certainly hardware
01:55:19 <cheater99> let me look
01:55:25 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
01:55:26 <cheater99> i've got /etc/X11/xorg.conf
01:55:28 <cheater99> no cap
01:55:51 <cheater99> ah right
01:55:56 <cheater99> the latest version uses HAL
01:56:01 <cheater99> the latest version of ubuntu
01:56:06 <alise> ah, indeed
01:56:08 <cheater99> but even before it was using HAL drivers it didn't work
01:56:20 <cheater99> Section "Module"
01:56:20 <cheater99> Load "synaptics"
01:56:21 <cheater99> EndSection
01:56:23 <cheater99> so i just have this
01:56:25 <cheater99> what do you have?
01:56:40 <cheater99> i also have something about screen devices but that's all
01:57:32 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
01:58:06 <alise> cheater99: i suggest removing xorg.conf
01:58:14 <alise> i have none
01:58:21 <alise> i bet it will autodetect the right driver if you do
01:58:54 <cheater99> that can't be it though
01:59:05 <cheater99> let's give it a try though
01:59:24 <alise> dude it's Linux/X11
01:59:27 <alise> it can be any fucking thing.
02:00:55 <cheater99> yeah that's my problem
02:01:11 <cheater99> there's no fucking telling what the signal 'flow' is
02:01:13 <alise> so just remove it and restart X :P
02:01:44 <alise> cheater99: yes, a modern GNOME/X11/GNU/Linux system is hideously overcomplicated.
02:01:47 <alise> computers suck, we know this
02:01:53 <cheater99> it's not even about complication
02:02:01 <cheater99> if there was any documentation at all!
02:02:16 * Sgeo is apparently "Geonic elements"
02:02:34 <alise> cheater99: tried it yet? :P
02:02:48 <cheater99> just a sec, waiting for this video to finish then i'll reboot
02:02:48 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
02:02:55 <cheater99> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D26U26fFojw&feature=player_embedded
02:02:59 <cheater99> check it out
02:03:04 * cheater99 is into synthesizers
02:03:23 <alise> no need to reboot ...
02:03:25 <alise> just log out
02:03:33 <alise> X will restart
02:04:15 <cheater99> ok
02:04:26 <cheater99> but it will have to close irc etc
02:04:26 <cheater99> right?
02:04:34 <alise> well yeah. since x sucks. :-P
02:04:39 <cheater99> fucking x
02:04:42 <cheater99> brb
02:04:45 -!- cheater99 has quit (Quit: Leaving).
02:15:11 -!- cheater99 has joined.
02:15:18 <alise> wb cheater99
02:15:19 <alise> any luck?
02:15:28 <cheater99> thx ^^
02:15:30 <cheater99> no :(
02:15:32 <cheater99> the only thing that did was make my gnome ugly :p
02:15:52 <cheater99> btw, the touchpad doesn't work on the login screen either (it used to but then it broke down completely)
02:16:35 <alise> How on earth did it make gnome ugly?
02:16:47 <cheater99> it disabled compiz and the theme
02:16:58 <cheater99> and it fell back to the way gnome used to look 15 years ago
02:17:55 <pikhq> What, you mean Motif compliant?
02:18:09 <cheater99> SORT of like this: http://blog.chris.tylers.info/uploads/rhl72-gnome-desktop.png
02:18:26 <alise> cheater99: see that just looks usable to me :P
02:18:31 <alise> i'm a bit of an old fart ...
02:18:56 <pikhq> That looks like a no-nonsense GUI thing with unantialiased fonts.
02:19:12 <cheater99> so alise
02:19:17 <pikhq> But, then, I'm the guy using Fluxbox.
02:19:17 <cheater99> how are you an old fart
02:19:18 <pikhq> :)
02:19:22 <cheater99> if you're supposed to be a teenager
02:20:18 <alise> cheater99: magic.
02:20:21 <alise> pikhq: yeck, fluxbox.
02:20:31 <cheater99> alise: so what do we do about the thing now?
02:20:40 <cheater99> let's look at your HAL info
02:20:45 <cheater99> maybe??
02:20:56 <alise> sheesh i'm only 14, that information is PRIVATE
02:21:01 <alise> how about you paste yours :-P
02:22:45 <cheater99> what do you get when you do ls -R /etc/hal/fdi
02:22:46 <cheater99> ?
02:24:09 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ ls -R /etc/hal/fdi/
02:24:09 <alise> /etc/hal/fdi/:
02:24:09 <alise> information policy preprobe
02:24:09 <alise> /etc/hal/fdi/information:
02:24:09 <alise> /etc/hal/fdi/policy:
02:24:10 <alise> preferences.fdi
02:24:12 <alise> /etc/hal/fdi/preprobe:
02:24:27 <cheater99> is that it?
02:24:50 <cheater99> and are you sure you have no xorg.conf or Xorg.conf in /etc/X11?
02:25:13 <alise> yes, and certain.
02:25:23 <cheater99> is there anything else under /etc/hal ?
02:25:38 <alise> no.
02:25:54 <cheater99> is there about synaptics in preferences.fdi?
02:25:56 <alise> lshal reports that psmouse is being used for something, though under the synaptics device itself it actually lists no driver. queer.
02:26:11 <alise> my xinput:
02:26:14 <alise> ⎡ Virtual core pointer id=2[master pointer (3)]
02:26:14 <alise> ⎜ ↳ Virtual core XTEST pointer id=4[slave pointer (2)]
02:26:14 <alise> ⎜ ↳ SynPS/2 Synaptics TouchPad id=11[slave pointer (2)]
02:26:14 <alise> ⎜ ↳ Macintosh mouse button emulation id=12[slave pointer (2)]
02:26:14 <alise> ⎣ Virtual core keyboard id=3[master keyboard (2)]
02:26:15 <alise> ↳ Virtual core XTEST keyboard id=5[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:17 <alise> ↳ Power Button id=6[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:19 <alise> ↳ Video Bus id=7[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:21 <alise> ↳ Power Button id=8[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:23 <alise> ↳ Chicony USB 2.0 Camera id=9[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:25 <alise> ↳ AT Translated Set 2 keyboard id=10[slave keyboard (3)]
02:26:30 <alise> cheater99: no
02:26:37 <alise> just something about hotpluggable storage
02:27:51 <cheater99> i have a thing called 11-x11-synaptics.fdi
02:27:58 * pikhq sends the world's most evil HTTP query to tinyurl.
02:28:02 <pikhq> Curses.
02:28:07 <pikhq> <h1>414 - Request-URI Too Long</h1>
02:28:10 <pikhq> To filebin, then.
02:29:20 <cheater99> i'll upload my lshal
02:29:50 <pikhq> alise: http://filebin.ca/hbrppf/timemachine.tex Thoughts?
02:30:34 <cheater99> alise: http://pastebin.com/QxpPVDyq
02:31:29 <cheater99> alise: that's not the WHOLE thing :p
02:33:46 <cheater99> http://pastebin.com/GUuXCpr8
02:33:59 <cheater99> that's my /etc/hal/fdi/policy/11-x11-synaptics.fdi
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02:35:34 <Madk> Heyyy
02:36:08 <Madk> Oh, my.. I'm not alone in this universe, am I?
02:36:14 <cheater99> ok
02:36:15 <cheater99> alise
02:36:16 <cheater99> i need ideas
02:36:17 <alise> pikhq: No, not Century Schoolbook :(
02:36:20 <alise> cheater99: sec.
02:36:24 <Madk> THANK GOODNESS
02:36:29 <Madk> Anyway
02:36:34 <cheater99> ok alise!
02:36:35 <alise> pikhq: Anachronism, not good for fiction.
02:36:38 <alise> cheater99: sec
02:37:00 <alise> #
02:37:01 <alise> input.x11_driver = 'synaptics' (string)
02:37:01 <alise> #
02:37:01 <alise> input.x11_options.SHMConfig = 'on' (string)
02:37:03 <alise> i don't have this line
02:37:05 <pikhq> alise: Better font por favor?
02:37:08 <Madk> alise: I fixed a bug in M-Code, if it interests you. It was preventing commented code from parsing correctly.
02:37:15 <pikhq> alise: Preferably one that's not a pain to obtain?
02:37:17 <cheater99> you don't have this line?
02:37:19 <cheater99> wait
02:37:21 <alise> cheater99: i suggest removing /etc/hal/fdi/policy/11-x11-synaptics.fdi
02:37:23 <alise> god knows why
02:37:33 <alise> pikhq: hmm
02:37:34 <cheater99> you don't have the line with shmconfig?
02:37:38 <cheater99> or with x11_driver?
02:37:53 <cheater99> because you listed two lines but only talk about one.
02:37:58 <pikhq> alise: Also, those your only complaints?
02:38:03 <alise> pikhq: maybe Minion? (It's an anachronism but inspired by ancient designs, so...) and it's originally postscript, so should be quite easy to find
02:38:05 <alise> my only complaints so far
02:38:16 <alise> can you make a pdf or ps of it? i'm extraordinarily lazy
02:38:17 <alise> cheater99: indeed.
02:38:21 <alise> cheater99: i have neither of those lines
02:38:24 <alise> copy /etc/hal/fdi/policy/11-x11-synaptics.fdi somewhere and nuke it
02:38:24 <cheater99> ok
02:38:28 <cheater99> ok
02:38:37 <pikhq> alise: Just lemme upload.
02:38:39 <alise> pikhq: are you sure the original text had en dashes -- instead of em dashes ---?
02:39:07 <pikhq> alise: Gutenberg did. That may well be an error.
02:39:34 <alise> pikhq: If it had -- in plaintext, that is often used to denote em dash.
02:39:36 <alise> Not so in TeX.
02:39:48 <pikhq> Okay. Sed away, then.
02:40:47 <cheater99> let me try and reboot now
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02:41:37 <alise> pikhq: Was the original text written with single quotes?
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02:41:44 <pikhq> alise: Yes.
02:41:59 <pikhq> alise: It has several chapters in a single quotation.
02:42:08 <pikhq> With double-quotes used within the single quote.
02:42:27 <alise> pikhq: Oh, I forgot H. G. Wells was completely insane.
02:42:32 <alise> You have spaces at the end of lines. You might want to rectify that.
02:42:33 <pikhq> By "several chapters" I mean "almost all of it".
02:43:02 <alise> You have an \emph{} of a sentence with the . outside it, but an \emph{} of the start of a quotation with the ` inside it.
02:43:09 <alise> I suggest setting it as `\emph{I} instead.
02:43:12 <pikhq> That's a bug.
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02:43:46 <pikhq> BTW, I'm going to only update the PDF once I fix everything you list here. :P
02:44:19 <pikhq> Hmm. There's several em-dashes here used for an interrupted sentence with spaces before them.
02:44:22 <pikhq> Which is wrong.
02:44:44 <alise> I would M-q all of the text
02:44:46 <alise> *text.
02:44:54 <pikhq> M-q?
02:44:57 <alise> In Emacs
02:44:59 <alise> Refills text.
02:45:03 <pikhq> Ah, right.
02:45:04 <pikhq> Yeah.
02:45:08 <alise> no trickery. I don't want to waste this model, and then be told I'm
02:45:08 <alise> a quack.''
02:45:11 <alise> The opening quote is just a `.
02:45:13 <alise> Replace '' with '.
02:45:27 <pikhq> Hooray, booog.
02:45:34 <alise> booog? :P
02:45:42 <pikhq> Bug, but more oo-gy.
02:45:44 <alise> God, H. G. Wells loved his dashes.
02:45:49 <pikhq> He did.
02:46:12 <pikhq> It's like typographic symbols were new to him or something.
02:46:37 <alise> \chapter*[Epilogue]{\textsc{Epilogue}}
02:46:40 <alise> Why the *?
02:46:50 <pikhq> Makes it not have a number assigned.
02:46:50 <alise> Won't that say "Chapter Epilogue"?
02:46:58 <pikhq> No, it'll say "Epilogue".
02:47:05 <alise> Fair enough.
02:47:39 <alise> pikhq: Then I'd like to see the PDF.
02:48:09 <pikhq> Lemme get Minion set up and just double-check for remaining stupidities.
02:48:27 <alise> Minion may not fit the text. I am not sure. But it should be easy to get working since it's a postscript font.
02:50:00 * pikhq reflows
02:50:36 <alise> I'm finding it hard to find Minion on a torrent site.
02:50:42 <alise> There needs to be a site for typophile pirates. Yarr.
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02:52:02 <alise> pikhq: Oh, install Adobe Reader.
02:52:09 <alise> This gets you Minion Pro as an otf.
02:52:19 <alise> Convert them into Type1.
02:52:23 <alise> Then use http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/.
02:52:47 <alise> (I recommend doing this instead of XeTeX because the packages give enhanced support.)
02:52:52 <alise> http://lglinux.blogspot.com/2007/09/myriad-and-minion-for-latex.html
02:53:07 <alise> pikhq: I'd like to see the current PDF anyway, though.
02:53:11 <pikhq> alise: Awesome.
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02:54:44 <cheater99> alise: nothing
02:54:48 <cheater99> alise: we need mo' ideas
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02:55:12 <alise> cheater99: i suggest reinstalling
02:55:14 <alise> :P
02:55:16 <alise> like windows.
02:55:41 <cheater99> i will reinstall you
02:55:43 <cheater99> :(
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02:56:02 <cheater99> i have a 10.04 livecd
02:56:09 <cheater99> the thing doesn't work on it either
02:56:17 <alise> oh well
02:56:19 <alise> install gentoo :-P
02:56:27 <alise> gentoo solves all problems given infinite patience
02:56:33 <cheater99> you're not being helpful :<
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02:57:30 <alise> i no rite
02:58:22 <cheater99> c'mon alise
02:58:25 <cheater99> be a star
02:58:27 <cheater99> come up with something
02:58:36 <cheater99> i thought you were supposed to be smart with computars
02:58:37 <pikhq> alise: http://filebin.ca/wrkhx/timemachine.pdf
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02:58:54 <alise> cheater99: only with things that obey the rules of logic
02:58:57 <alise> linux is a mystery to me
02:59:51 * pikhq installs Adobe Reader for the sole purpose of having its fonts
02:59:58 <alise> pikhq: damn, i really want to show you my The Metamorphosis now
03:00:01 <alise> it's beautiful
03:00:10 <alise> apart from the Q in that garamond
03:00:13 <cheater99> alise: linux obeys rules of logic, it runs on a turing machine
03:00:16 <pikhq> alise: Anyways, thoughts on the text ATM?
03:01:23 <alise> cheater99: yeah if you believe that stuff
03:01:32 <alise> pikhq: the text itself is fine, of course, only formatting issues are to talk about :-P
03:01:32 <cheater99> alise: i do
03:01:41 <cheater99> alise: u just don't want 2 hlp me :<
03:01:43 <alise> pikhq: i do not like your chapter headings much
03:02:04 <alise> i would have the font be bigger, perhaps bold, the dashes to be shorter, and there be more space between the number and the dashes
03:02:07 <alise> but that's just my preference
03:02:38 <alise> pikhq: also, the man's name is H. G. Well,s not H.G. Wells. Probably.
03:02:44 <alise> *Wells
03:02:46 <alise> *Wells,
03:03:05 <pikhq> alise: XD
03:03:13 <alise> wat
03:03:33 <pikhq> Yeah, it's probably not H.G.
03:04:08 <cheater99> my initials are cooler
03:05:04 <alise> C. H. Eater XCIX
03:05:17 <alise> Charles Harold Eater XCIX
03:05:39 <cheater99> actually
03:06:01 <cheater99> one of my first names goes back so far i'm like the 5th or something in line
03:06:32 <pikhq> alise: Any other thoughts on the formatting?
03:06:34 <alise> i know someone with the most awesome name ever but i don't think i'll reveal it for the sheer awesomeness
03:06:45 <cheater99> what is it
03:07:04 <alise> pikhq: i'm not so sure printing THE TIME MACHINE on every verso page is productive.
03:07:11 <alise> i might move the page numbers there instead.
03:07:20 <alise> er
03:07:22 <alise> *every recto page
03:08:26 <alise> pikhq: also, make sure every chapter starts on a recto page.
03:08:31 <cheater99> ALISe
03:08:35 <cheater99> alise
03:08:42 <cheater99> what's that name
03:08:48 <pikhq> alise: Okay.
03:08:55 <alise> ah, it does
03:08:56 <alise> good
03:08:59 <alise> cheater99: nope
03:09:12 <alise> pikhq: i think your chapter starter pages have too much blank space
03:09:12 <pikhq> alise: Memoir class takes care of *that*. ;)
03:09:18 <alise> look at it in dual mode in your favourite pdf viewer
03:09:23 <alise> it's a long dip down compared to the previous page
03:09:31 <cheater99> don't be a little toot
03:09:33 <cheater99> tell me
03:11:33 <alise> shaddup
03:12:11 <cheater99> why did you mention it then
03:12:32 <cheater99> to torture us?
03:12:33 <cheater99> :<
03:13:15 <pikhq> alise: Hmm, that really is a lot of blank space.
03:14:39 <alise> cheater99: yeh
03:14:48 <cheater99> :(
03:14:49 <alise> actually i decided not to after i checked and it was trivially googleable
03:14:53 <cheater99> u'r hateful
03:15:17 <cheater99> y r u hateful? :< <
03:15:21 <cheater99> :p
03:15:46 <alise> jesus christ
03:18:23 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that I have never eaten a hamburger
03:18:33 <Sgeo> My dad's a bit paranoid about Mad Cow disease
03:18:44 <Sgeo> However, there hasn't really been an outbreak in, how long?
03:18:47 <coppro> lol
03:18:55 <Sgeo> And it's probably safer to eat a hamburger than get in a car
03:18:59 <cheater99> lol
03:19:02 <coppro> if by "outbreak" you mean "case", several years
03:19:22 <cheater99> bear in mind this disease has delayed effect
03:19:28 <cheater99> you might have it for deeecaaadesss
03:19:48 * Sgeo paranoiafuels
03:19:59 <pikhq> alise: Y'know what'd be cool (if painful)?
03:20:20 <pikhq> To make a book entirely by hand, using moving type.
03:20:24 <alise> pikhq: A clockwork urethra?
03:20:24 <alise> Oh.
03:20:34 <cheater99> haha clockwork urethra.
03:20:42 <cheater99> you don't have an urethra, you're a girl.
03:20:49 <cheater99> silly kid.
03:21:04 <coppro> `addquote <cheater99> you don't have an urethra, you're a girl.
03:21:08 <HackEgo> 196|<cheater99> you don't have an urethra, you're a girl.
03:21:29 <alise> i am pretty sure i do have a urethra :P
03:21:33 <coppro> yay, HackEgo's working again!
03:21:33 <Sgeo> "People with a biologic relative who has been diagnosed with CJD or vCJD are unable to donate."
03:21:47 <pikhq> alise: Creating a single book with movable type, though, would be really silly.
03:22:09 <Sgeo> Wait, you mean books weren't made with movable type?
03:22:09 <pikhq> Awesome, but really silly.
03:22:12 * Sgeo is confused
03:22:13 <cheater99> you should create a book with one of those labeling tools
03:22:16 <cheater99> that make strips
03:22:21 <cheater99> one letter by letter
03:22:34 <pikhq> Sgeo: Modern books are not made with movable type.
03:22:56 <Sgeo> pikhq, yes, but when movable type was invented...
03:23:03 <pikhq> Sgeo: BTW, by single book, I mean a *single book* being printed. Literally, print exactly one copy.
03:23:30 <pikhq> Also, when movable type was invented books had already existed for ages.
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03:24:32 <cheater99> sounds like an extremely effective way to spend your time
03:24:50 <Sgeo> 50 years?
03:24:54 <Sgeo> for CJD?
03:24:57 * Sgeo nightmares
03:25:26 <cheater99> yes
03:25:28 <cheater99> everyone has CJD
03:25:29 <pikhq> cheater99: It'd be the ultimate in expensive bookery.
03:25:45 <cheater99> right
03:25:56 <cheater99> it's about as cool as..
03:25:56 <pikhq> Especially if I used gold leaf or something.
03:26:10 <Sgeo> Cow meat today is fairly safe though, right?
03:26:12 <cheater99> a multithreading operating system writen in machine code with a hex editor.
03:26:14 <Sgeo> Is there a way to screen it?
03:26:22 <cheater99> after writing it out in pencil on paper.
03:26:23 <pikhq> "Yeah, the only way this book could be more crazy-awesome is if I took up calligraphy."
03:26:45 <cheater99> calligraphy is ten times faster than movable type page setup.
03:27:11 <pikhq> Yes, but it takes more time to learn, I'm sure.
03:27:24 <pikhq> Though, movable type setup is probably really freaking painstaking.
03:28:16 <Sgeo> I don't get it. Are multiple copies of a single page done at once?
03:28:51 <pikhq> Sgeo: ... Yes, that's how movable type normally works.
03:29:01 <pikhq> You set up the type for a page, and then print off many copies.
03:29:10 <Sgeo> Oh, so I _do_ get it
03:29:12 <pikhq> *This is the whole reason movable type was revolutionary*.
03:29:35 <pikhq> It took barely any extra effort to print off 2, 3, or 3000 copies of a book.
03:29:44 <pikhq> And so, mass media was invented.
03:30:34 <pikhq> (woodblock printing, invented much earlier, was a bit less revolutionary cause carving books into wood is a motherfucking pain.)
03:30:56 <Sgeo> I understood the multiple copies thing, but just didn't realize it was multiple copies of one page at a time
03:31:22 <pikhq> ... How else could it possibly work?
03:31:36 <pikhq> What, having a fully set frame for each page? Ugh.
03:31:43 <Sgeo> I didn't know, but it just sounded wrong somehow
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03:41:43 <Sgeo> It's weird, taking a drug that can be so dangerous to treat such mild discomfort
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03:47:28 <alise> abc
03:47:29 <alise> Sgeo: what?
03:47:45 <Sgeo> alise, Paracetamol
03:47:50 <Sgeo> For a very minor headache
03:49:31 <pikhq> Yeah, that's all sorts of scary.
03:50:36 <Sgeo> I don't think I've ever taken more than 500mg in a 24h period
03:50:52 <Sgeo> Well below the recommended dose
03:51:22 <pikhq> Also, if you've taken alcohol... Seriously, for the love of god, don't even think about touching that shit.
03:51:37 * Sgeo doesn't drink
03:51:51 <Sgeo> pikhq, is that "ever" taken alcohol, or taken alcohol recently?
03:51:58 <pikhq> Sgeo: Recently.
03:52:16 <coppro> why are you taking paracetamol for a headache?
03:52:17 <pikhq> That produces almost-instant liver failure.
03:52:28 <pikhq> coppro: It's a common painkiller.
03:52:47 <Sgeo> The thing here, this headache was very minor
03:53:14 <coppro> it doesn't even help that much
03:53:40 <pikhq> "overdoses of paracetamol can cause potentially fatal liver damage; [..] in rare individuals, a normal does can do the same"
03:53:54 <pikhq> Yeah, I know. It's a painkiller that doesn't kill pain that well.
03:54:02 <pikhq> s/does/dose/
03:54:10 <Sgeo> ...it seemed to help with a recent severe headache
03:54:18 <Sgeo> although that could have been placebo effect, I guess
03:54:19 <coppro> If I actually take something, it'll be ibuprofen
03:54:34 <coppro> but I prefer to avoid those sort of things
03:54:37 <Sgeo> Apparently aspirin is really hard on the stomach?
03:54:41 <pikhq> Ibuprofen or naproxen sodium work well, I've found.
03:54:47 <coppro> aspirin is really hard on the body generally
03:55:06 <pikhq> Aspirin works, but it's harder on the stomach than most things.
03:55:16 <Sgeo> What's Ibuprofen's downside? They all seem to have one
03:55:32 <coppro> downside: you're taking a drug
03:56:16 <pikhq> Ibuprofen has a minor antiplatlet effect.
03:57:01 <pikhq> It can also cause: nausea, dyspepsia, gastrointestinal ulceration/bleeding, raised liver enzymes, diarrhea, constipation, epistaxis, headache, dizziness, priapism, rash, salt and fluid retention, and hypertension.
03:57:04 <Sgeo> So, bad if you have severe cut, bad if you have a minor cut, or bad if you are ... that condition that doesn't let bleeds stop
03:57:05 <Sgeo> Oh
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03:57:15 <Sgeo> headache? That would be ironic
03:57:23 <alise> pikhq: and DEATH.
03:58:07 <pikhq> Sgeo: Yeah, most drugs have these sorts of possible side effects.
03:58:20 <pikhq> I'd be surprised if there wasn't one that didn't have the possibility of nausea.
03:58:55 <Sgeo> You mean that Paracetamol's hardness on the liver isn't its only side effect?
03:59:01 <pikhq> No.
04:01:45 <Sgeo> ^^ambiguous "no"
04:01:53 <pikhq> Paracetamol can also cause stomach bleeding, and calcify kidneys.
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04:02:10 <Sgeo> o.O
04:02:13 <pikhq> (I have no idea what a calcified kidney is, and I don't want to know.)
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04:13:52 <Sgeo> It just occured to me that I'm glad my mouthwash is non-alcoholic
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04:50:00 <pikhq> http://filebin.ca/ehmnsc/TenpopinanpaWan.pdf
04:50:24 <pikhq> Okay, LaTeX can get decent results from logographic Toki Pona.
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05:00:20 <Quadrescence> pikhq: latex or xetex
05:01:52 <pikhq> Quadrescence: That's XeTeX.
05:02:01 <pikhq> Too much Unicode for normal TeX.
05:02:14 <Quadrescence> yes I know
05:02:20 <Quadrescence> then why did you say LaTeX?????????????????????????????
05:02:36 <pikhq> LaTeX is a macro package for TeX.
05:02:50 <pikhq> And XeTeX is an implementation of the TeX language.
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05:03:05 <pikhq> What you asked is basically like "GTK+ or C".
05:03:13 <pikhq> Sorry.
05:03:16 <pikhq> "GTK+ or GCC".
05:03:19 <pikhq> Not mutually exclusive.
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05:03:42 <Quadrescence> XeTeX is more than just an implementation of TeX
05:04:26 <Quadrescence> it is typically okay to say "latex" as if it were its own program
05:04:29 <Quadrescence> therefore etc
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05:06:26 <pikhq> Fine, xelatex. Happy?
05:27:56 <Quadrescence> no
05:28:07 <Quadrescence> I am so pissed pikhq now can you give me money please? :(
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06:08:46 <cheater99> i h8 ubuntu
06:08:48 <cheater99> :O
06:09:15 <pikhq> Naze?
06:12:29 <coppro> what's a good feed reader?
06:13:33 <pikhq> wget
06:17:05 <cheater99> no no no
06:17:09 <cheater99> wget is too bloated
06:17:24 <cheater99> you want something lightweight like term
06:33:33 <coppro> btw, ##cs was started today
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08:43:01 <olsner> coppro: what's that then?
08:43:18 <coppro> olsner: exactly what it sounds like
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08:44:23 <olsner> hash hash cee ess? :P a channel for generic computer science?
08:44:33 <coppro> yes
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08:47:02 <Slereah> What is the equation of a computer
08:47:22 <olsner> Slereah: 3 = x
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13:20:13 <Madk> What kind of program should I try and write in my esoteric language M-code?
13:20:18 <Madk> I need an idea
13:21:14 <Madk> Am I alone?
13:21:22 <Madk> Does no other life exist in this universe?
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13:31:02 <fizzie> I've usually -- if at all feasible -- just written a yet another Befunge(-93) interp, but that's just a personal idiosyncrasy, not a real suggestion.
13:34:12 <Madk> I'd be writing this in a separate esoteric language
13:34:19 <Madk> that doesn't look very easy to do
13:34:35 <Madk> A BrainF*ck interpreter is complicated enough
13:37:17 <Madk> Nooo I'm alone agaiin
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13:41:11 <fizzie> That thing really looks like it'd benefit (in the "easier to do stuff" sense) from an assembler that'd support labels, but maybe that's just too boringering.
13:42:09 <Madk> I suppose that wouldn't be too difficult. I had them at one point in early development, but I took them out
13:42:15 <Madk> I'll get on that now
13:42:20 <Madk> make some things a bit easier :P
13:43:12 <Madk> Thing is, I'm also trying to hunt down a bug
13:43:13 <Madk> so
13:43:19 <Madk> I'll put the bug on hold, I suppose
13:48:40 <CakeProphet> assembler with labels?
13:48:44 <CakeProphet> I'm actually working on such a thing.
13:49:26 <CakeProphet> I have some skeleton code written in Haskell. the only thing missing is the instruction parsing and machine code output parts. But all the helper functions have been made so it'll be a breeze
13:49:48 <fizzie> An assembler without labels is a sad assembler, after all.
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13:49:57 <CakeProphet> yes.
13:50:02 <Madk> You should check out M-code on the wiki
13:50:28 <Madk> anyway, labels getting close to done
13:53:11 <fizzie> I did take a peek; it looked refreshingly low-levely. (Though I was a bit distracted by the use of the words push/pop for register load/store; it's not doing anything stack-related, after all.)
13:56:37 <fizzie> It also made me want to write another of those GCC computed-goto driven interps for it, but I don't really have the time, and it wouldn't be anything especially clever anyhow.
14:01:50 <Madk> labels get.
14:01:59 <Madk> Now I have to make them work for all the bit versions
14:09:56 <Madk> uploading
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14:18:10 <Madk> Added labels and made the interpreter source just a little cleaner in the process. Also fixed a minor internal bug regarding the "|" symbol.
14:18:11 <Madk> http://floatation.webs.com/M-Code.zip
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14:23:44 <Madk> I added labels
14:24:05 <Quadrescence> where is a link to what M-code is
14:26:30 <Madk> wiki
14:26:34 <Madk> just search m-code
14:26:39 <Quadrescence> link me
14:27:12 <Madk> or http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/M-code
14:27:12 <Quadrescence> because I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo lazzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
14:27:47 <Quadrescence> ok looks boring :S:S:S:SS:S:S:S:S:S:S:S
14:28:07 <Madk> :/
14:28:17 <Quadrescence> Don't take this to be negative.
14:28:23 <Quadrescence> I looked at it for at most 30 seconds.
14:28:29 <Quadrescence> So I only have a superficial opinion.
14:28:30 <Madk> .-.
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14:32:21 <Madk> uh-oh
14:32:28 <Madk> I think my labels might be broken
14:36:29 <Madk> D: why is it malfunctioning
14:36:54 <Quadrescence> they call it M-code for a reason
14:36:56 <Quadrescence> i kid
14:37:25 <Madk> I put a couple label addresses into the register to output them, and it's showing 0
14:37:41 <Madk> but my program says it's not 0
14:39:34 <Madk> ._.
14:39:49 <Madk> something funny is going on
14:40:07 <Madk> Pre-runtime the label's value is 40
14:40:24 <Madk> sometime between then and the output command in the source it became 62
14:44:46 <Madk> What happened that it jujst doesn't work all of a sudden ._.
14:45:25 <Madk> ohhhhhhhhhhhhh
14:45:27 <Madk> d'oh
14:45:35 <Madk> I hope that's the onl issue though
14:45:48 <Madk> forgot to reset a variable when I had to separate parsing into two passes
14:46:15 <Madk> HURRA-oh wait
14:46:24 <Madk> the first issue persists
14:47:14 <Madk> Ooooooh
14:47:18 <Madk> stupid me
14:47:46 <Madk> I forgot that > puts a value at an address into the register, not the actual value
14:47:53 <Madk> stupid stupid stupid -.-;
14:48:27 <Madk> I need an alternate stack assignment to make it so you can pass like a constant into a register
14:49:31 <Madk> theeere we go
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14:52:46 <Madk> ok, good
14:52:49 <Madk> works now
14:53:09 <Madk> SEBBU
14:53:16 <Madk> you are become my test subject
14:53:34 <sebbu> why ?
14:53:49 <Madk> Because you're the only other person here atm
14:53:52 <sebbu> and it's not free for me to become test subject
14:54:32 <Madk> In Soviet IRC Channel, test subject becomes YOU.
14:54:34 <Madk> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/M-code
14:54:42 <Madk> write some simple program or something in it
14:55:12 <Madk> I need help bug-hunting, but nobody is doing anything with it
14:55:57 <sebbu> >[64]j[8]$8}[32].i[9]}[9]?[8];_$32Hello,[32]world!$64[45] ?
14:57:27 <Madk> that's an example.
15:06:57 <Madk> well? anything?
15:09:53 <cheater99> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKHiuFEKmJw&feature=related
15:12:11 <Madk> WMG'd?
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15:45:09 <Madk> hi
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18:30:36 <coppro> I'm rich
18:32:49 <pikhq> Oh?
18:33:19 <coppro> GSOC paid me the midterm
18:33:48 <pikhq> Ah.
19:03:21 <fizzie> Ill-gotten gains.
19:03:37 <coppro> I hope so
19:04:25 <fizzie> All Google money is made by murdering.
19:06:18 <coppro> noted
19:16:53 <Deewiant> That makes you a murderer
19:17:10 <oerjan> don't be evil - or we kill you
19:20:48 <coppro> don't worry
19:20:50 <fizzie> Don't be evil - that's our turf.
19:20:51 <coppro> Google isn't evil
19:20:55 <coppro> we know that
19:21:35 <fizzie> Deewiant: Remember back a while ago when we were talking about boring fake-quines? I wrote a really silly Perl fake-one: http://sprunge.us/fUYE?perl
19:22:30 <Deewiant> What's the 0; for
19:22:39 <coppro> a fake quine is one that prints its own source file?
19:22:50 <fizzie> It's an "EOF" status report from the source-filter sub.
19:23:21 <fizzie> The filter examples had an unadorned expression instead of an explicit return, so I put in one too.
19:23:49 <fizzie> There's of course an almost identical one using the magical DATA filehandle, too: http://sprunge.us/YEZF?perl
19:24:58 <oerjan> !perl Hm
19:25:07 <oerjan> oh
19:25:13 <oerjan> `perl hm
19:25:19 <HackEgo> No output.
19:25:34 <oerjan> `No output.
19:25:36 <HackEgo> No output.
19:25:53 <fizzie> Heh, a HackEgo quine.
19:26:00 <Deewiant> Lacks the `.
19:26:36 <oerjan> ^hm...
19:28:27 <fizzie> Unfortunately fungot says "Mismatched []." if there's an unterminated loop in bf; if the message were something like "Unterminated [" you could sort-of count "^bf Unterminated [".
19:28:27 <fungot> fizzie: and using actual wav files might give too much: http://www.call-with-current-continuation.org/ manual/ interpreter-command-line-format.html'
19:28:55 <oerjan> ^bf .]
19:28:55 <fungot> Mismatched [].
19:28:59 <fizzie> ^ul ...bad insn!
19:28:59 <fungot> ...bad insn!
19:29:23 <fizzie> Given how trivial actual quining is in Underload, going via error messages is a bit silly.
19:30:09 <oerjan> ^echo ^echo
19:30:09 <fungot> ^echo ^echo
19:30:32 <Deewiant> ^bool No.
19:30:45 <fizzie> I don't think it accepts an argument, unfortunately.
19:30:56 <Deewiant> I was hoping you didn't check for that.
19:31:25 <Deewiant> ^style Not found.
19:31:25 <fungot> Not found.
19:32:18 <fizzie> ^str Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]
19:32:19 <fungot> Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]
19:32:40 <fizzie> ^str 0 get
19:32:40 <fungot> ^str 0 get
19:32:52 <fizzie> (Okay, so I set it to that in a query.)
19:32:53 <Deewiant> ^str 0 set foo
19:32:53 <fungot> Set: foo
19:32:55 <Deewiant> ^str 0 get
19:32:55 <fungot> foo
19:33:03 <Deewiant> I have uncovered your misdeeds!
19:34:08 <fizzie> ^def Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
19:34:08 <fungot> Usage: ^def <command> <lang> <code>
19:34:13 <fizzie> Is it perhaps getting a bit silly?
19:34:18 <Deewiant> Very.
19:34:26 <Deewiant> Most of these lack the ^cmd bit at the beginning anyway.
19:34:42 <fizzie> Yes, well, I do count
19:34:48 <fizzie> ^ul (:aSS):aSS
19:34:48 <fungot> (:aSS):aSS
19:34:55 <fizzie> As a quine-example for Underload.
19:35:06 <fizzie> So those are just "str" and "def" quines.
19:35:09 <Deewiant> Only because Underload itself doesn't need the ^ul.
19:35:25 <Deewiant> Well yeah, anything is a quine like that. :-P
19:35:47 <fizzie> Neither do the str and def commands "itself" need the prefix, it's just there for the benefit of the bot. Ahem. Okay, I'll stop rationalizing.
19:36:44 <fizzie> ^asc 53.
19:36:44 <fungot> 53.
19:36:53 <fizzie> Okay, now I'll really stop.
19:37:01 <oerjan> ^ul (^ul )(~:SaS:aSS)~:SaS:aSS
19:37:02 <fungot> ^ul (^ul )(~:SaS:aSS)~:SaS:aSS
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19:39:13 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
19:39:13 <fungot> ^ul (^ul )(~:SaSaS(:^)S):^
19:39:18 <fizzie> That's a tiny bit shorter.
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19:40:01 <fizzie> Adapted it from the ^ul/+ul toggle-quine I wrote back then when we had a +ul bot:
19:40:03 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
19:40:03 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
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19:44:02 <oerjan> ^ul (aS(:^)S):^
19:44:02 <fungot> (aS(:^)S):^
19:47:04 <fizzie> Doesn't buy you much over the "usual" (:aSS):aSS, except that perhaps some "explicit language" filters won't trip.
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20:23:08 <cpressey> ^ul $(window).scrollTo('#disclaimer');
20:23:08 <fungot> ...bad insn!
20:27:09 <fizzie> I've been peeking at the manual of the DSP chip (TI C64x+ series) they've put in my phone; it seems quite a spiffy thing. "64 general-purpose 32-bit registers and eight functional units -- [each of which contains:] two multipliers, six ALUs". (It's a VLIW thing to drive all those units in parallel.)
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22:39:34 <aliseiphone> Urgency is present in this air. I wonder from where?
22:39:44 <aliseiphone> Hi ais523.
22:39:52 <ais523> hi
22:41:03 <aliseiphone> I just sprayed an awful lot of aerosol and the air is still. I never knew air could smell this bad.
22:41:43 <Ilari> Smell just bad or unusual kind of bad? :-)
22:42:15 <Ilari> (that unusual kind of bad is very difficult to describe to someone that hasn't experienced it).
22:44:08 <Ilari> One of the worst smells I have ever run across: "Pineapple scented" liquid soap. That smelled _REALLY_ HORRIBLE.
22:45:29 <Ilari> In contrast, paint that is infamous for its smell wasn't that bad.
22:45:45 <cpressey> auuugggh google just "improved" their image search.
22:46:14 <pikhq> aliseiphone: Hail, aliseiphone.
22:46:19 <cpressey> smells like teen spirit.
22:46:24 <pikhq> aliseiphone: When do you regain freedom?
22:46:43 <aliseiphone> pikhq: Ehm?
22:46:54 <aliseiphone> 2 Aug I become daypatient.
22:46:57 <pikhq> aliseiphone: Like, "no longer have to reside in the unit".
22:47:00 <pikhq> Kthx.
22:47:10 <aliseiphone> Ilari: Unusual and bad.
22:47:24 <aliseiphone> Like aerosol ... Without the smell.
22:47:36 <aliseiphone> pikhq: Throwing a party?
22:48:16 <aliseiphone> cpressey: Google are "improving" your "life".
22:48:34 <Ilari> The kind of smell that feels like it is outside the space of smells, but still is felt as bad smell.
22:48:37 <pikhq> aliseiphone: Yes, I shall find a political party and throw them out a window.
22:49:31 <Ilari> Later that day I ran into that soap I smelled some real pineapples. Not one of the best smells, but it wasn't bad smell either.
22:51:06 <aliseiphone> pikhq: Which?
22:51:33 <aliseiphone> How about the Tories? Then we get a nice Lib Dem government.
22:51:40 <pikhq> aliseiphone: Select one at random. I shall repeat until there's a lack of political parties.
22:51:56 <aliseiphone> So.
22:52:03 <aliseiphone> Things?
22:52:54 <pikhq> Alternately, just throw out all the Tories and (in the US) Republicans.
22:53:03 <cpressey> Things, indeed.
22:53:18 <pikhq> Thereby moving us at least a few steps towards having discussion happen instead of rants.
22:54:48 <aliseiphone> pikhq: Yeah because Dems are sane.
22:54:57 <pikhq> aliseiphone: More so than the Republicans.
22:55:02 <pikhq> Which is not saying much mind.
22:55:08 <aliseiphone> The US operates on a 1.25 party system.
22:55:38 <coppro> heh
22:55:56 <coppro> 2/3 republican, 2/3 democrat, and everyobody else?
22:56:04 <aliseiphone> coppro: Whereas Canada operates on a 0.75 party system.
22:56:28 <aliseiphone> coppro: no, the GOP is one
22:56:39 <aliseiphone> and the dems are almost the gop
22:56:56 <coppro> lol
22:56:59 <aliseiphone> with only .25 actually distinct party
23:02:31 <pikhq> aliseiphone: The "Democrats" range from the slightly more sane neoconservatives to literal, honest-to-god communists.
23:02:47 <pikhq> It's a very, very broad party. Getting them to do anything is like herding cats.
23:03:05 <pikhq> The Republicans range from the slightly less sane neoconservatives to literal, honest-to-god fascists.
23:03:21 <pikhq> It's a very, very well-defined party. Getting them to do anything is like getting lemmings to jump off a cliff.
23:03:44 <coppro> yeah, that's the Republicans' strength
23:04:21 <pikhq> Convince them that it's in their favor to make Congress not do anything, and fuck it, that's what they'll do.
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23:08:19 <aliseiphone> back in a bit
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23:51:17 <cheater99> jesus
23:51:27 <cheater99> hey, why isn't alise here?
23:53:50 <Sgeo> <aliseiphone> back in a bit
23:55:10 <cpressey> Undefined variable 'aliseiphone' at line 5, column 23
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