< 1279584173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is that a me reference? < 1279584179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are the numbers just coincidence? < 1279584285 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, an occurrence of 23 is *never* a coincidence. < 1279584295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, OK < 1279584325 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except where it is. Verily. < 1279584363 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Since the subject came up -- why did you pick those numbers? Born on May 23rd? < 1279584385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no, it was a completely random number, picked by an automatic username-allocating system < 1279584387 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in March of 1952? < 1279584394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I am aware of the significance of the number < 1279584401 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1279584415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw whatever conclusions you like from that < 1279584441 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall! < 1279584464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts drawing a stick figure < 1279584566 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I learned this about the DOM today, at least as FF sees it: If you have two nested elements, and you move the mouse into the inside one, you get two mousenter events, one for each of the elements. If however you have two elements which are *not* nested but still geometrically overlap by absolute positioning, you will only get one mouseenter. < 1279584585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1279584595 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the top element hides the lower one < 1279584621 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas if one is a subelement of the other, entering the inner one by definition, requires you to be in the outer one < 1279584622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some definition of "hide" which does not map to the user's experience and which is very inconvenient for me... perhaps. < 1279584638 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should go purely by the geometry imo. < 1279584679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make no sense < 1279584720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"by definition"? You can have an inner element which displays completely outside of the element it's nested in. < 1279584731 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *like* it, but... < 1279584747 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not about display, it's about logical nesting < 1279584763 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if something is inside something else, to be inside it is logically to be in the outer element too < 1279584781 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like putting a box in a can and saying you can be in the box but not in the can < 1279584809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :346126 is also a number from a user-allocation system < 1279584821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't that sound much better than "It's my Active Worlds citizen number!"? < 1279584836 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279584841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1279584884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were that HTML were not about display. Alas. < 1279584921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My world is full of boxes in cans that appear outside of them. < 1279584938 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is not about display < 1279585063 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If your HTML is not about display, then I applaud you. Recognize, however, how much of the world's HTML *is* about display, almost entirely so. < 1279585074 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CSS is < 1279585076 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML is not < 1279585104 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your HTML includes display information, you're Doing It Wrong < 1279585131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You realize how much of the world is doing it wrong, right? < 1279585143 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro < 1279585156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: unfortunately < 1279585161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo < 1279585193 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279585204 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I still think, since mouseenter uses geometry, and CSS uses geometry, the problem is one of display, and HTML nesting should not enter into it. < 1279585233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's about we replace HTML with something better? Something without any formatting? < 1279585243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GIFs. < 1279585250 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better. < 1279585259 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOh, I know! < 1279585261 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVG < 1279585276 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does everything HTML does < 1279585282 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except "better" < 1279585290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except with more of a focus on formatting and not on content. < 1279585319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants a damned hypertext markup language, not a craptastic graphic design language < 1279585323 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a focus on content, you need only use the XHTML namespace < 1279585335 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, this works both ways < 1279585339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that's a craptastic graphic design language! < 1279585342 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but importing SVG in an XHTML document is confusing < 1279585358 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's all use TeX < 1279585365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1279585372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HyperTeX it is. < 1279585376 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279585513 0 :Wamanuz2!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279585733 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1279585751 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279586096 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279586819 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to get the command line of a running windows program? < 1279587219 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279587597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: is it even possible? < 1279587609 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's got to be in memory somewhere < 1279587638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not necessarily exposed to other processes. < 1279588223 0 :augur!~augur@c-69-143-196-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279588351 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1279588541 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279589863 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1279591173 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279591175 0 :augur_!~augur@c-69-143-196-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279591203 0 :Wamanuz2!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279591215 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1279591658 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279591772 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1279592494 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279592702 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@99-203-235-76.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279592706 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279593447 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279593479 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1279593490 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1279594721 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279595141 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279595940 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@68-27-42-203.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279596098 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1279596115 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The day of the day is still there :P < 1279596593 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1279598005 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h147.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279598141 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279598307 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h141.61.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279598384 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279598787 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-1176440753.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1279600123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, ? < 1279600169 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki front page < 1279600203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, ah < 1279604192 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279605653 0 :augur!~augur@c-69-143-196-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279605927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279606481 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1279607887 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279607906 0 :augur!~augur@c-69-143-196-42.hsd1.md.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279608027 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting… < 1279608056 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1279609316 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279611064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279611165 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1279611440 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279612131 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1279612799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1279612800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1279612885 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279612966 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279613055 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1279613878 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1279615244 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279615513 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279615776 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279616863 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-8-88.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279618417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1279618722 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279618741 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-35-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279619012 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279620084 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my room i keep my love a tiny rubberband < 1279620993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: If you still need it: Process Explorer can show it < 1279621546 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1279621683 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1279621684 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1279621693 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1279622101 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h11.15.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279623171 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-75.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279623242 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-1-136.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279623255 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279623464 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279623531 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-136.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279623717 0 :DH____!~DHeadshot@cpc2-woki2-0-0-cust667.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279627220 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279627303 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279627305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1279627441 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-39-9.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279627441 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1279627659 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-39-9.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1279627830 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279627936 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279628562 0 :Wamanuz2!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279630120 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1279630127 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279631956 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279632256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279634472 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-81-117.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1279636831 0 :Madk!~Madk@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279637195 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone else here? < 1279637198 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I alone? < 1279637202 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1279637502 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279637568 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1279637569 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h90.55.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279637582 0 :distant_figure!~nine@41-133-81-117.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1279637776 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1279637777 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1279637831 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm all fuzzy inside - my m-code language is turing complete ;D < 1279637847 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally finished by bf interpreter in it < 1279637940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the simple TC proof. :D < 1279638142 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279638155 0 :Madk!~Madk@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279638292 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h193.20.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279638311 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1279638701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279639036 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279639105 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-155.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279639491 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279640325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279640742 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279640873 0 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-106-123-171.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279641392 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what's everyone else doing? < 1279641432 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on changing around the syntax for non-runtime commands in m-code to free up some characters < 1279641778 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's way more characters than you need in ISO 10646-1. :-) < 1279642213 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm only using easily typable characters though :P < 1279642228 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 3 lowercase letters and a handful of uppercase left < 1279642237 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and 0 and @ < 1279642275 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm doing now will free up ] and " < 1279644887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1279644892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, m-code? < 1279644900 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1279644903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it < 1279644909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember hearing about it < 1279644911 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language I made recently < 1279644918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it on the esowiki? < 1279644919 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last few days I've been polishing it < 1279644921 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1279644930 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/M-code#.5B.5BFibonacci_sequence.5D.5D < 1279644962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm 8/16/32-bit < 1279644969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, does that mean memory is limited? < 1279644973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, it won't be TC < 1279644977 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1279644983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub-TC then < 1279645004 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing can be TC, then < 1279645018 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll run out of bits for an address eventually < 1279645050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, well not in practise, but in theory sure. Any esolang run on a physical computer won't be TC in that case. But the same esolang run on a Universal Turing Machine would < 1279645063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it allows you to have infinite storage in theory (which is what matters for TC) < 1279645077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, esolangs doesn't have to be TC and may still be quite useful < 1279645083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or usable or whatever < 1279645087 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were possible to have limitless addresses, the ability to access the memory is there < 1279645105 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 8-bit the maximum address is 255, of course < 1279645111 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the most you can do in 8 bits < 1279645141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, so if you want to keep it TC just allow bignum addresses < 1279645162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, assuming it is TC in other parts < 1279645166 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, like a string for a number? < 1279645187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the representation is obviously up to you but see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary-precision_arithmetic < 1279645224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh I wish ais523 was here, he could explain this a lot better < 1279645252 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Augh, is that really necessary D; < 1279645279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, you could do it as a variant. Or you don't need to be TC < 1279645303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides I don't know if the rest of requirements for TCness are satisfied. I just spotted the obvious first check < 1279645336 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's absolutely no reason why it couldn't parse itself < 1279645346 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be slow, given, but still tc < 1279645370 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has all the basic arithmatic operators < 1279645377 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ton of memory < 1279645392 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279645408 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 6052 assembly with single-char mnemonics < 1279645416 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not truly, but it's not so far from it < 1279645430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you implement brainfuck with infinite data tape in it? < 1279645445 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with bignums or such, yes < 1279645456 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, a machine with infinite memory < 1279645474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well brainfuck with finite tape but bignums also works for proving TC < 1279645482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, yes it just needs to be infinite in theory. Of course in practise it won't be on physical hardware < 1279645504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that yes < 1279645515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lets not confuse poor Madk < 1279645536 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that dumb, just new to some of these terms <.< < 1279645541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1279645546 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1279645570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: i removed your empty column from esointerpreters, we sort of don't want that page to get wider than necessary < 1279645599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put it back once you've implemented M-code in brainfuck, or something ;D < 1279645600 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed, yeah, I should've thought about that beforehand < 1279645607 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1279645608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which page? < 1279645620 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning on trying to make a self-interpreter eventually < 1279645621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/EsoInterpreters < 1279645628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah the case < 1279645630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1279645646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesky mediawiki < 1279645652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that page is like 1/3 of my screen width < 1279645658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the table I mean < 1279645658 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any obvious features or convenieves I may be missing? < 1279645675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk, conveniences? < 1279645680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an esolang? < 1279645683 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conveniences* < 1279645691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wasn't about the spelling < 1279645695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about the concept < 1279645700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only needs a couple more columns to fill out my browser window, admittedly i don't use quite full screen width < 1279645710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a laptop) < 1279645713 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some, yes < 1279645728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Nothing can be TC, then < 1279645737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're correct that no real machine can, if the universe is finite < 1279645740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, this is a 2something" wide-screen monitor < 1279645747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've been thinking if it gets much bigger it ought to be reorganized into something with a (vertex/edge) graph instead < 1279645748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1680x1050 < 1279645749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But languages aren't real in that sense :) < 1279645773 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't want to force people to use half the program memory for relatively simple tasks :P < 1279645777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't really know how to do that, especially if it's supposed to be easy to edit < 1279645793 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well i know how to make a graph on paper) < 1279645795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a table like that is a perfectly nice way to represent a graph where there can only be one edge between a given pair of nodes in a given direction < 1279645827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well actually it isn't such a graph, you will note there are several cells with multiple entries < 1279645837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed < 1279645841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what do those mean? < 1279645850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait I think I see < 1279645852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: links to the interpreters < 1279645862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so we have labeled edges < 1279645863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1279645883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why do we mark C specifically < 1279645894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh and befunge93/98 should be separate entries < 1279645929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not about being a nice way, it's about being big. in fact one way of shrinking things a lot without making a graph would be to separate out into a few tables: from bf/befunge, to bf/befunge, self-interpreter and others < 1279645970 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279645972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe, i already separated out unefunge the other day when someone added it < 1279646011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because the table is very sparse except for bf/befunge) < 1279646022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well befunge-93 is quite a different beast from befunge-98 < 1279646070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, apart from one geocities link there seem to be only befunge-93 apart from fungot which is befunge-98 < 1279646071 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the fnord cost fnord at least, ls -l /lib/ fnord debugging symbols found)...done. < 1279646131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah please split that < 1279646131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into 93/98 < 1279646131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lost my login for the wiki ages ago < 1279646131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no password set < 1279646131 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-46-48.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1279646185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much work, i'm lazy. just to find out which dialects they actually _are_ using, it's not like most of the link urls indicate it < 1279646228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I checked them for you < 1279646231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said above < 1279646241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that one for lazyk I couldn't find anything about < 1279646241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what! < 1279646289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait found it < 1279646291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 too < 1279646322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so from those links: for befunge: all 93 except from the fungot link which is 98 and the geocities link which is dead and thus I have no clue about < 1279646323 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: augur: i despise the state machine. :) ( it's at http://students.depaul.edu/csweeney/ scheme.code.html if anyone cares < 1279646331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, checked for you < 1279646381 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone gotta implement Thue in Kipple. < 1279646386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh and the marking for C is because we started pondering that there _are_ so few actual cycles. it's an encouragement to make more. :) < 1279646458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you check both befunge row and befunge column? < 1279646462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes < 1279646487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and fungot is in two places (implements bf and ul) < 1279646487 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a new ( miniscule) processor architecture, written an emulator for it, < 1279646520 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok and there actually no f98 in the column, iiuc < 1279646520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why that specific combo? < 1279646527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there are < 1279646539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc ? < 1279646557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the geocities link is dead and not in waybackmachine < 1279646560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no clue about it < 1279646568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's feasible to me < 1279646590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not surprising, since f98 is much harder to implement but at least as easy to implement with < 1279646618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one has implemented Brainfuck in Unlambda? < 1279646620 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surprising. < 1279646674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway without splitting 93/98 we could end up with false cycles < 1279646721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, note also that 93 is not a proper subset to 98. String mode handling of multiple spaces differs, and that breaks a few programs < 1279646762 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried building PortableFalse last night, and found both gcc and pcc choke on it. < 1279646874 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose we know of any False interpreter implemented in Haskell? < 1279646960 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, well the geocities link is dead and not in waybackmachine <--- try reocities? < 1279646971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, never heard of that < 1279646981 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try it < 1279647017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one use it < 1279647021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the front page: tl;dr < 1279647037 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: s/www.g/www.r/ < 1279647045 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, dots in re's, whatever < 1279647054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Page not (yet!) found..." < 1279647055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ^ < 1279647069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it was worth a shot. < 1279647091 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is not surprising, since f98 is much harder to implement but at least as easy to implement with < 1279647114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before commenting on "but at least as easy" remember he is a mathematician < 1279647117 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to me the "true" tarpits would all be equally hard to implement each other in :) < 1279647128 0 :Wamanuz3!~wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279647133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, befunge is by no means a tarpit < 1279647136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not 98 < 1279647148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should know that better than anyone else < 1279647188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least as well as anyone else ;) < 1279647188 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haaargh my changes to syntax has broken my bf interpreter < 1279647188 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you misunderstood my point < 1279647188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1279647188 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must fix < 1279647191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean then < 1279647214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing syntax *does* tend to break things < 1279647220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would you expect < 1279647227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have better things to do than to explain it to you. Sorry. < 1279647235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, mhm < 1279647246 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster I went through and changed the stuff to the proper syntax and it's still broken, that's the problem < 1279647255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1279647263 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hopefully I just forgot one or two things < 1279647294 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either jumping past the end of the loop or it's not jumping to the beginning ._. < 1279647339 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279647339 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279647339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it's not in reocities (yet) < 1279647339 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279647349 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fibonacci sequence is still fine, though, after I changed the syntax, so I don't really think it's the m-code interpreter itself < 1279647403 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how can befunge-98 _not_ be easier to implement things with? it has a lot of extra features afaik, even if it's not strictly a superset < 1279647478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was you who claimed it was at least as easy < 1279647479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1279647486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is interesting how much harder bub is to optimise than brainfuck < 1279647595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: note i said implement _with_. one of the reasons why there are so few Cs in that page is, in my opinion, that the easier a language is to implement other things with, the harder it is to implement itself. < 1279647596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if you had balanced [] you could back-translate it into a loop trivially. A lot of other optimisation would require changes though < 1279647603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the non-matching case < 1279647616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true < 1279647626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, each S is a C really < 1279647637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i've now edited the page < 1279647762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes but somehow i don't think they count as much < 1279647762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you want to check the result) < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you edited it wrong. Move the fungot entry in the bef/bf cell up < 1279647762 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i understood exactly what you end up with < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to 98 < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move the geocities one about < 1279647762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to somewhere < 1279647763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1279647763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, okay you see the XX in b98/bf? Well one of those is a dead link. We need befunge-unknown-due-to-dead-link < 1279647763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you said the geocities one was f98. oh wait you meant unknown. < 1279647770 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurrah, I hauled my hello world example into the new syntax < 1279647773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, maybe put dead links at a list at the end < 1279647775 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279647778 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279647780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh. < 1279647781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, with a note about it < 1279647788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just a suggestion for how to handle it < 1279647803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trivially to use an automated link checker tool for it anyway < 1279647809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe KDE comes with one < 1279647811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1279647898 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's my bf interpreter < 1279647904 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot two "$"'s < 1279647973 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I raise my eyebrow in confusion. < 1279647989 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comment-stripper doesn't work right anymore < 1279648096 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hup, that was a simple fix :P < 1279648157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok i've now fixed it as much as i can be bothered < 1279648213 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He left < 1279648235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as well, there's no way he'll be satisfied with what i did anyway ;D < 1279648245 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1279648263 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What page is this? Befunge '93 and '98? < 1279648283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's just one Befunge page, but the one i edited is EsoInterpreters < 1279648309 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1279648342 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot to add -93 to the end of Befunge in the first column < 1279648350 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i removed it again < 1279648352 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you weren't intending to, in which case you should < 1279648364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it contains one unknown interpreter < 1279648379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a dead link which we don't know which befunge dialect it is < 1279648409 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither link is dead for me < 1279648417 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One says a '93 interpreter in '93 < 1279648428 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other says a '93 interpreter in befunge without a year < 1279648439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um the brainfuck interpreter in befunge < 1279648444 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1279648470 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the link is broken take it down, it's of no use to anybody :/ < 1279648470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should perhaps point at the standalone Underload thing instead of fungot there for the Underload-in-Funge98 case. < 1279648470 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fnord this shit doesnt achieve anything. :p)) some long, huge expression...) < 1279648542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: the point is reocities is adding old geocities links slowly, so it _might_ become found again and i don't like to delete dead links completely without replacement < 1279648563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we delete them then we'll _never_ remember to check if they've reappeared < 1279648567 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, I'm off to write the collatz and the seive of eratosthenes in m-code :D < 1279648573 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Oh, ok < 1279648586 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: What about a separate wiki page for dead links < 1279648604 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go check them every now and then and if one works, put it wher it belongs < 1279648612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the wayback machine, which i read somewhere hasn't added anything to the publicly available database for years < 1279648630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The EsoInterps table could be wider; I should perhaps implement something that doesn't have an esointerp yet. (Then I could transmogrify it into fungot, perhaps.) < 1279648631 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: definitely worth .25, clearly wrong, since the last time you took a turning test? to see why: < 1279648699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I adore fungot. < 1279648700 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the price had went down from humongous to merely ginormous. the latter one doesn't look very probable though.) i think i actually need four quite small tunes < 1279649326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1279649413 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279649449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since we've usually been swapping these, here's a freehand (to excuse the very wobbly horizon) 360-degree huginization from a nearby cliff-thing: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1070725-739.jpg < 1279649516 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1279649772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm nice < 1279649798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well your way is kind of okayish < 1279649803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not very probable < 1279649813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since bf in 93 would mean very short tape < 1279649837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is hard to tell that it is wobbly. It looks like a hill at first glance < 1279649865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is a hill < 1279649866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1279649881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hillarious < 1279649892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah landscape too hilly in the near area to be able to tell if the horizon is wobbly or not < 1279649924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also very little parallax I see. Nice < 1279649933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any seam < 1279649935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is a hill. Well, the freehandiness also meant I had to leave quite a lot of black in there. (Or crop a lot out.) < 1279649947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1279650002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one visible seam near the left edge, in the roof/top-of-balcony of the bricky building visible through a gap in the trees. < 1279650033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh indeed, I thought it was strange architecture < 1279650047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like another house behind it < 1279650103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it neatly lines up with the balcony < 1279650134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also source images for at least one (if not two) full-circle panoramas (plus a few wide-angle shots) more from different spots on the hill, but I haven't had time to combinate them yet. < 1279650147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a way to solve having to crop as much would be taking pictures in a lower line as well < 1279650155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get a larger hfov < 1279650157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1279650159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfoc < 1279650162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vfov* < 1279650195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where are those hills? < 1279650284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called Laturinkallio, and it's approximately here: http://maps.google.com/?ll=60.223788,24.816624&z=17 < 1279650357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The houses with the seam are in the "triangle" between Laturinkatu / Porarinkatu / Mestarintie/Kehä I in that map; Google's satellite image is too old to show them. (They've been built mostly during this year.) < 1279650366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange it is to see both Swedish and Finnish names on things < 1279650390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though "Laddargränden" is a strange Swedish name for an alley < 1279650406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laddar is not a Swedish word that I know < 1279650426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That particular bit of road is "Laturinkuja" (where fi:kuja == en:alley) in Finnish, too. < 1279650468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it says "Nikkaripolku" on that one? < 1279650481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It changes name there. < 1279650482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the road rename is the middle? < 1279650483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279650513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't continue so smoothly as the map makes it look like; there's a series of steps there in the middle, you can't drive a car through. < 1279650533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1279650551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, besides, I doubt it goes through those houses < 1279650574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Openstreetmap represents it a lot better: http://osm.org/go/0xPMNrFE?layers=M < 1279650612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lacks the Swedish names, though. (Or doesn't show them, anyway; I would think they are in the metadata still.) < 1279650620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still goes through the houses < 1279650629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that red line I mean < 1279650686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it goes right next to the houses. There's no satellite-map overlay in osm, so I'm not sure how well it is actually placed. < 1279650703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OSM also shows the current and future routes of Kehä I; there's a large road project going on there. < 1279650782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279650817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, on the north or south side of them? < 1279650829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :South. < 1279650858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also you could drive a car there. With sufficiently large wheels < 1279650902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a very wide path. But yes, for some values of "car" you could drive one through. < 1279650920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kartat.eniro.fi/m/pKpro shows both the houses *and* the road, if you're curious. < 1279650932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Shelta has been implemented in itself -- is that worth adding to EsoInterpreters? < 1279650950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey I thought eniro was Swedish!? < 1279650975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, here's the beginning of the steps: http://kartat.eniro.fi/m/pKpmQ -- it should go directly to eniro's streetview-alike. < 1279650999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: sure < 1279651001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly there are those ramps for wheelchairs, those might help a bit in driving up there. < 1279651009 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Down would be easier, I guess.) < 1279651023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link doesn't work < 1279651037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I get a blank photo and no "plugin missing" bar at the top < 1279651052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curious; it works-for-me(tm). < 1279651076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well with _sufficiently_ large wheels it shouldn't be any issue anyway. Heck with *sufficiently* large wheels that hill wouldn't pose a problem at all, it would just like a bump in the "road" < 1279651087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, enabled javascript too < 1279651093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesn't work < 1279651104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For both eniro.fi and eniro.com?-) < 1279651110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1279651135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, well. You can click "Katunäkymä" in the earlier map and try to navigate there manually. < 1279651139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, if I enlarge the window I see far out on the right: "Gatuvy behöver Adobe Flash." < 1279651146 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1279651149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a silly place to put it < 1279651173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange it was translated to Swedish < 1279651184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since browser is set to English < 1279651192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google hasn't bothered to run their streetview car into Nikkarinkuja. But they have driven to the end of Laturinkuja, you just can't see the steps so well from there. < 1279651209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, localising google earth binary < 1279651213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be *somewhere* < 1279651224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe on a previous install < 1279651232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=60.223373,24.81612&spn=0.005014,0.013036&z=17&layer=c&cbll=60.223491,24.816834&panoid=DOmQFc4jsxgXEgAuw9xc2w&cbp=12,202.36,,0,-3.3 points at Google's streetview hopefully. < 1279651236 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Horrible link.) < 1279651258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't do in browser due to previously mentioned lack of flash < 1279651265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be able to do it in google earth < 1279651284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or you could just upload a screenshot of it for the .fi one < 1279651294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to suggest that. A moment. < 1279651304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks a lot < 1279651317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm where *is* the google earth steuff < 1279651318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff* < 1279651323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I had it installed < 1279651338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Er... it's actually a Shelta->8086 compiler written in Shelta. Not technically a self-interpreter. < 1279651358 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So... ignore me :) < 1279651365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/steps.jpg < 1279651372 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole page is about *interpreters* < 1279651382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw I wonder how google solves the parallax in their pictures. Since their cameras can't all be in the same place < 1279651397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yeah indeed some problems for your average car < 1279651538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The streetview car (well, one of them) looks funky: http://sfcitizen.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/2584018127_c2701eaef8_o.jpg < 1279651558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sure that ramp is for wheelchairs and not baby wagons (is that the English term for it? < 1279651559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1279651573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems quite horrible to drive an electric wheelchair up that < 1279651593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a manual for that < 1279651610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it would be mostly used by baby carriages (I think that's the term). < 1279651612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that a policeman behind it? < 1279651624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like one; I'm not sure what's happening in the picture. < 1279651641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway those cameras look really strange < 1279651659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The four beige blocks are some sort of laser range-finders. < 1279651663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, if the cameras are the black ones at top < 1279651669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they are the white ones then even stranger < 1279651681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean white < 1279651718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. It said "tan" in the page describing the photo, I just picked yet another light colour. < 1279651738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link to that page? < 1279651768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still it doesn't explain how to 1) solve parallax 2) solve nadir image < 1279651780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nadir one tends to have parallax at google though < 1279651799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect they extract that one from the next/previous one < 1279651845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.byetman.com/2008/06/17/google-street-view-car-busted-in-more-ways-than-one/ claims that they're range-finders. < 1279651891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ok < 1279651901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ooh, here's a better look at the camera: http://ekstreme.com/images/google-streetview-camera-1.jpg < 1279652072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay the camera thing is definitely the one at the top < 1279652080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still how the fuck do they solve parallax < 1279652132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's not *that* much of it. And they do know the (relative) positions of their cameras and all. < 1279652155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and a fun thing I noticed at E20 of google street view: on the north bound side it showed a road covered with rain water, on the south bound side it was sunny < 1279652193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solving parallax is such a paradox < 1279652193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, "big" roads like that have some discontinuities. < 1279652218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, plus since there were two lanes in each direction on that section it showed that there was cloudy in the outer lane in the south bound direction :D < 1279652242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloudy but not raining that is < 1279652251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, and as for "solving" parallax, I just rotated the "Laturinkuja" Google streetview image around, and there's a very nice ghostly duplicate of one tree here. I'll screenshotify it. < 1279652267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they use cars to do it too? < 1279652296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : solving parallax is such a paradox <-- that one was so bad < 1279652352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :virtually without parallel < 1279652357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/ghost-tree.jpg <-- I wouldn't call that a "solved" merging of their panorama images. < 1279652378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a bit of a seam in the sidewalk too.) < 1279652545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, even hugin does better < 1279652569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hugin would give a cut off tree instead < 1279652600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use enfuse < 1279652607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, their image-blender seems more enfusey than enblendy. < 1279652622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but enfuse is so much slower than enblend that I doubt it would be feasible to run that on so much data < 1279652651 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279652771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, while we're at it, here's one of the wide-angle huginizations: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1070756-760.jpg -- the road that goes parallel to the picture there is Laturinkuja/Laddargränden. < 1279653280 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: At any rate, that table has got me thinking about the feasibility of implementing esolangs in other esolangs. Like, why implementing Thue in Kipple, or Kipple in Thue, would both be hard, for different reasons. < 1279653324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thue has that pesky no good IO problem < 1279653351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was just about to say that -- it extends to initial data being pesky as well, doesn't it? < 1279653399 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. The initial data would be a Kipple program -- you'd first need to transform that into something you could interpret -- and that would be ugly. Well, I guess not impossible though. < 1279653413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well initial data is no more allowed to be free format than input is < 1279653445 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some languages, for some small character sets, it might be impossible < 1279653450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is _everything_ in free format can clash with the thue program source < 1279653450 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279653460 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1279653480 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need disjoint character subsets for the initial data and the "intermediate representation" < 1279653503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... boom (potentially) :) < 1279653543 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: No route to host < 1279653551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Itflabtijtswi, which is also substitution based, solves this by reading only single characters at a time < 1279653570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Itflabtijtslwi < 1279653656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: do you allow compiling esolangs into esolangs? < 1279653678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the big problem with Thue, really, is a sort of wire-crossing problem < 1279653696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pain to move data from one end of the program to the other < 1279653706 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just now wanted to add the Shelta->8086 compiler written in Shelta to the page, but decided against it because it's excpliticly about EsoInterpreters. < 1279653707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone starts compiling esolangs into esolangs with esolangs, we will certainly need to put that on the wiki somewhere < 1279653722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: try adding it to the Shelta page < 1279653726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't there already < 1279653727 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I should. < 1279653745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does Perl count? < 1279653750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :D < 1279653785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling esolangs into esolangs with esolangs is something I've been considering, incidentally < 1279653791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to finish Cyclexa sometime < 1279653795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, well, properly start it < 1279654017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought that was most of the point with your underlambda thing < 1279654121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, agreed < 1279654130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underlambda's a language to compile via, or will be when I finish it < 1279654136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, RL gets in the way of esolanging so much < 1279654460 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279654640 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279654830 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should learn Underload sometime. < 1279654873 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone designed a language with the goal of making quines hard to write? < 1279654958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone tried to make a language where they were impossible to write < 1279654966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/User_talk:Smjg < 1279654967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that any program that was a quine was rejected, anything else ran fine < 1279654980 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, they argued with me that such a language exists *in principle*, which is true ;) < 1279654997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: not only did they do so, but you invented narcissists because of it < 1279655051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Indeed < 1279655067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but their idea iirc is a trivial modification that can be applied to any language < 1279655070 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now I'm just thinking of a language that would make quine-writing ugly. For lack of a better way to put it. < 1279655126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the more awkward computing and printing strings is... < 1279655167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It was Underload's "in output, parens must be balanced" that got me wondering about it. < 1279655298 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, anything that makes it _impossible_ to print a program source in the language would pretty much ruin things. see intercal-72. < 1279655311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1279655314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could still encode it somehow, though < 1279655324 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, yeah. Not what I'm thinking of :) < 1279655338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding output is entirely contrary to the spirit of quines < 1279655346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, why are []<> reserved in Underload anyway? < 1279655360 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a bit arbitrary, reading through the spec < 1279655363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a language like Unlambda, quines are hard because of the difficulty of copying data < 1279655366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it is rather arbitrary < 1279655369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :future expansion? < 1279655372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for backwards compatibility with something that doesn't exist < 1279655393 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. I notice <>'s appear in the stack when you single-step trhough the JS interpreter < 1279655402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're the stack separator < 1279655408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1279655409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say with unlambda it's more about the awkwardness of string representation < 1279655427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use that because it's illegal in the input program, or in the working < 1279655458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a "neater" representation, though, is simply to parenthesise the stack elements < 1279655466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shortest unlambda quine is a rather evil continuation hack < 1279655493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ingenious < 1279655496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523_ < 1279655505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw the one in the distribution can be shortened somewhat, because it misses the optimization `kv = k or something like that < 1279655506 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, ingenious < 1279655508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1279655511 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what? < 1279655513 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1279655527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look it up < 1279655534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you mean `kv=v, surely? < 1279655542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er yes < 1279655553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of v as a fixpoint for k < 1279655572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quine06 < 1279655589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it has a `kv in it < 1279655617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I think I have a continuations impl for Underlambda written in Underlambda preprocessor somewhere < 1279655623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it would be easy enough to adapt to Underload < 1279655647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as all Underload commands but S translate directly to Underlambda < 1279655667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you simplify that, you shave off ``sc.```s``sc.k``s as well < 1279655686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need to modify the string representation too, wouldn't you? < 1279655692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since that's the part of the function representing the `k) < 1279655700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279655702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i'm saying < 1279655728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more languages need continuations < 1279655753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still really proud of continuation.i < 1279655790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1279655824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented continuations in INTERCAL < 1279655835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279655838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure INTERCAL, that is, it doesn't even use an external C library < 1279655850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(pure C-INTERCAL; doing so in INTERCAL-72 would be insane) < 1279655858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeez. That suggests CONTINUE FROM to me. < 1279655865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey insanity is an advantage here < 1279655884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's a three-liner; NEXT FROM, make a continuation, RESUME < 1279655888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mind just drove into a tree. < 1279655963 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, but it reminded me of the idea I had earlier this morning, that I forgot. Thank you! < 1279656102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually really like C-INTERCAL's control flow, more languages should use it < 1279656115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot more natural, in a way, then the kludges many other languages use to do much the same thing < 1279656139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need a *MWAHAHAHAHA* after saying that < 1279656150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not really < 1279656171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tsk, such denial < 1279656505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Well, while we're at it, here's one of the wide-angle huginizations: http://zem.fi/~fis/P1070756-760.jpg -- the road that goes parallel to the picture there is Laturinkuja/Laddargränden. <-- nice < 1279656555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should like totally take multiple 360° panos and link them together like a virtual fizzie off-street view :D < 1279657115 0 :Madk!~Madk@162.84.95.122 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279657513 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279657893 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279658223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi there < 1279658269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have a question about nwn toolset. How on earth do I create new items of cloth type armour. I seem unable to manage anything but light armor. < 1279658290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, editing cloth type also turns it into light armor < 1279658295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect a bug < 1279658314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I have 1.69 or whatever the last one was called. Diamond edition iirc < 1279658344 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279658386 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279659888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A regular expression to check for prime numbers" < 1279659894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that that's a joke < 1279659914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's supposedly for un.. wait, still < 1279660035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in unary, with Perl 5.10 regexen, ^(aa+){2,}$(*PRUNE)(*FAIL)| < 1279660064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, Perl's been stealing a whole bunch of features from Cyclexa, just with more unwieldy syntax < 1279660065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary? < 1279660077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: representing, say, 9 as aaaaaaaa < 1279660086 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279660092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :length of a string used to represent the number < 1279660100 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant a language or something < 1279660102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern-matching esolangs tend to use it, as it's easiest < 1279660117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a lang called Unary, but it's one of those concept things like HQ9+ < 1279660137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do *PRUNE and *FAIL do? < 1279660144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut and fail from Prolog < 1279660156 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me < 1279660157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so no idea? < 1279660161 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that _works_? < 1279660170 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it must be inefficient for large numbers? < 1279660179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: change the torso model, the material and AC change to match < 1279660185 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I get it < 1279660187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, very < 1279660194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh, material is where? < 1279660208 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's awesome < 1279660215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not visible directly, but, say, if you recolour leather, looking at what changes colour lets you see what's made of leather < 1279660228 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there proof that Perl 5.10 regexes are TC yet? < 1279660228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... < 1279660242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (*PRUNE) = discard backtracking points before here, (*FAIL) = try to backtrack < 1279660245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the combo forces the regex to fail < 1279660253 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1279660305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that regex needs special handling for 0 and 1 < 1279660310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it marks them as prime < 1279660312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the idea < 1279660315 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1279660322 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy enough < 1279660328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link to this Cyclexa < 1279660331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it < 1279660336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one < 1279660340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, it's unfinished < 1279660346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then how can perl steal from it < 1279660351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unknowingly! < 1279660352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it your language? < 1279660352 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^($|a$|(aa+){2,})$(*PRUNE)(*FAIL)| < 1279660360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1279660363 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove the two $s < 1279660377 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1279660378 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1279660379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unholy. < 1279660382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if so, a description and dare share your work earlier ;P < 1279660396 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1279660410 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1279660422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a cross between regexen and Prolog < 1279660449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a built-in primitive for recursive replacements on parse trees < 1279660467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(most langs don't have a primitive /that/ specialised; Cyclexa was intended to write compilers) < 1279660534 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to give Cyclexa points for sounding like the marketing name for a drug. < 1279660538 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *medication*. < 1279660544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1279660563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, you are right < 1279660564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1279660565 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talk to your doctor about Cyclexa! < 1279660565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it has antitext < 1279660578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1279660605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you match a string against normal text, that text is removed from the string < 1279660612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you match a string against antitext, it's added to the string < 1279660614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the crickets are *really* loud outside today < 1279660626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you end up with a TC language, rather than an LBA < 1279660659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, weird < 1279660674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it always added? Or only in case of a non-match? < 1279660678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in case of a match? < 1279660692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it fail to match? < 1279660695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, always added < 1279660702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ofc that bit of the regex might not run at all < 1279660744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1279660767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well fail to match = only added if not there already < 1279660776 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuu < 1279660780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, adding something != removing it < 1279660781 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs.org is down < 1279660785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you'd consider those the same < 1279660789 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whup < 1279660791 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was short < 1279660797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I meant for antitext? < 1279660798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: working fine for me < 1279660821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howabout, nondeterministic regexp replacements: so s/a/xy/ on "baza" yields {baza, bxyza, bazxy, bxyzxy} < 1279660832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, nice idea < 1279660845 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with n modifier: s/a/xy/n < 1279660866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, n meaning? < 1279660869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad Perl insists on being deterministic. I mean in general < 1279660881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, doesn't it have an rng? < 1279660883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1279660885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prng* < 1279660890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably certain you can do something like that in Cyclexa < 1279660906 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean the theory-of-computation meaning of nondeterminstic < 1279660910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, show us the spec < 1279660921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not finished! < 1279660924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, right < 1279660931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, release draft then! < 1279660935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but backtracking does nondeterminism, in a rather inefficient way < 1279660949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's why I added "in general" :> < 1279660955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine something like a=(xy|) would be enough to do what cpressey suggested < 1279660960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in Cyclexa, that is) < 1279660983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, explain that syntax or post daft spec < 1279660999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daft specs would seem a rather appropriate thing for this channel < 1279661001 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby! \o/ < 1279661001 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :     | < 1279661001 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    /< < 1279661017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? isn't that a good thing? < 1279661017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "replace a with xy or nothing" < 1279661026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, yes ruby is horrible from what I seen < 1279661032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'd need a modifier to do a global replace, but I forget what it is offhand < 1279661041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i love ruby < 1279661046 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just discovered something wonderful about ruby :D < 1279661052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, isn't haskell better? < 1279661073 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not for scripting and the like < 1279661088 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i discovered that ruby has minor pattern matching :D < 1279661111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, erlang has pattern matching on par with haskell. better for some things, slightly worse for some < 1279661115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is escript < 1279661120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is erlang as script < 1279661131 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. but i like being able to dick around in TextMate and test things like and so forth < 1279661141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, I have no idea about that editor < 1279661147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog's pattern matching beats Haskell's < 1279661149 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a mac editor < 1279661164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oh man < 1279661167 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check this out < 1279661168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't it do erlang? < 1279661176 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think I saw someone that tried to add regexps to Haskell's pattern matching ! < 1279661183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's rather out of context... < 1279661184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: ouch! < 1279661195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1279661196 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[1,2], [3,4]].map { |(a,b)| a+b } == [3,7] < 1279661198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, augur* < 1279661201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab failure < 1279661207 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful! < 1279661211 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not a bad idea, I don't think, but the potential for mess... yeah. < 1279661233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its like, i can do map (\[a,b] -> a+b) [[1,2], [3,4]] < 1279661236 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279661253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely the clean method would just be 'myFunction a | a `matchesRegex` "regex" = ...' < 1279661265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, and you can't in haskell? < 1279661271 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no, you CAN in haskell < 1279661278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1279661281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell >> ruby < 1279661281 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i discoverd you can do the thing above that in ruby! < 1279661287 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell >> ruby? < 1279661292 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do haskell, then do ruby/ < 1279661296 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if i must! < 1279661297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, no no < 1279661301 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'd prefer >>= to >> honestly < 1279661304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur, "much better than" < 1279661305 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean lets be serious here < 1279661307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this context < 1279661313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what you meant, spergface < 1279661314 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1279661323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spergface? I never heard that insult before < 1279661333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a+b|a<-[1,2],b<-[3,4]] -- Better. < 1279661355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that hurts. Interestingly I think it also is valid erlang, or nearly so < 1279661359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, but not as illustrative < 1279661375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Mmm, true. < 1279661385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it isn't strangely enough < 1279661388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with || < 1279661396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why it returns an empty list < 1279661400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1279661407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(\[a,b]->a+b)<$>[[1,2],[3,4]] < 1279661409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar; done. < 1279661438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, couldn't you do [a+b|[a,b]<-[[1,2],[3,4]]] < 1279661439 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has some srsly gnarly operators for being an academic language. < 1279661450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1279661459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, would it do the same though < 1279661494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yeah, well. Hooray, functions. < 1279661516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$>, BTW, is not in Prelude. < 1279661520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Applicative has it. < 1279661531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what does it do? < 1279661535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I got that far yet < 1279661542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's infix fmap. < 1279661546 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applicative functors! :D < 1279661554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just read that in Learn You a Haskell < 1279661570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes along with <*>, which is the applicative functor operator... < 1279661586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$> :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1279661597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<*> :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1279661605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Basically* it lets you apply the function in a functor to another functor. <*> :: f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b < 1279661652 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<$> is sort of like liftA1 isnt it there < 1279661654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ouch that hurts to think about < 1279661687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Most obviously useful for applying a list of functions to a list. ;) < 1279661701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes quite. Still somewhat mindbending < 1279661772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1279661777 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279661786 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279661895 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, curried functions. < 1279661906 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+)<$>[1..]<*>[2..] < 1279661962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think that ever gets past the first 1 < 1279661970 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that shouldn't work AFAICT < 1279662002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baaah < 1279662005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the applicative instance for lists is cartesian product based, not zipping < 1279662005 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One degree of gnarliness too far. < 1279662012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. same as the monad < 1279662019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right. < 1279662049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The zipping instance doesn't get you a monad, so that's not the default. < 1279662061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use ZipLists but that's awkward < 1279662078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it _does_ give a monad, it's just a different one < 1279662104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it violated monad laws if you allowed for finite ziplists? < 1279662107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not defined in the source < 1279662124 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless, it's not a ziplist because the monad instance isn't. < 1279662141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And inconsistent instances make me sad. < 1279662190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believed i checked it once, and you can define it. join is essentially taking the diagonal, with some care (all the previous lists must be at least that length or you do get a law failure) < 1279662214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*believe < 1279662300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you get a valid instance, with some restrictions. < 1279662317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the actually used instance has no such restrictions. < 1279662323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um i didn't mean restrictions < 1279662349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I misunderstood. < 1279662359 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other than the collatz and fibonacci sequences should I make examples for in my language? < 1279662366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant you need to take care when defining join that you cannot use a diagonal element unless all the "square" above and to the left are also defined < 1279662372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1279662381 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking juggler, but then I have to figure out how to get a square root < 1279662388 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: Kolakoski sequence < 1279662398 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's cool < 1279662400 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my fave < 1279662413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: thue-morse < 1279662611 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably not a gigantic one :| < 1279662633 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wikipedia isn't clear on how the kolakoski sequence works < 1279662693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nth number is the length of the nth block of equal digits. blocks alternate with 1s and 2s, and 1 starts the sequence < 1279662698 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211, etc. < 1279662703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the nth digit < 1279662723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: um that's look-and-say < 1279662729 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1279662741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not kolakoski < 1279662752 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it was < 1279662769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madk: oh also factorial < 1279663000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google < 1279663008 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s new image search design is nice < 1279663246 0 :Madk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279663392 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1279663743 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two things that seem "obvious" to me but for which no proof has been found. 1. P < NP 2. There are an equal number of 1's and 2's in the Kolakoski sequence. < 1279663813 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the wonderful thing about proofs is that seeming is irrelevant < 1279663861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Indeed their power to dispel illusion is unmatched. < 1279663890 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i await the day when we have a proof that P = NP < 1279663895 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so i can shove it in your face. :D < 1279663899 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279663909 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279663926 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so i can shove it in your face < 1279663928 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be like < 1279663931 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPEL THIS < 1279663931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279663944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... "expel"? < 1279663988 0 :DH____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com < 1279663998 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1279664083 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1279664103 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dispel sorry. i thought you had said expel (for god knows what reason) and my client died before i could get a good look < 1279664104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1279664123 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretend everything i said made sense! < 1279664142 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK! < 1279664148 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1279664156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a lot of practice doing that all the time at work anyway. < 1279664722 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1279665401 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1279665435 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1279665438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainpipe looks good < 1279665520 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1279665683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION needs a set of earphones that aren't so fragile that I will end up breaking the wire and being unable to listen with both ears < 1279665743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Get. Proper. Headphones. < 1279665758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I _had_ headphones. They broke. < 1279665774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds improper. < 1279665777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think one of the wires broke or something < 1279665779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~())~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ < 1279665779 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :122 ...out of stack! < 1279665784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1279665799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because now audio only comes out of one.. ear thing, unless I hold the thing in position just right < 1279665812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay money for ones with replacable wires. Or at *least* one with not-shitty wires. < 1279665850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~())~*(b1)S^(b2)S(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ < 1279665850 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12b12 ...out of stack! < 1279665886 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something similar happened to my earbuds just today < 1279665890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I think it's me < 1279665906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, yesterday < 1279665916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~())~*aSaSaS < 1279665917 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12(~()(2)S:**a(~:)~*^~)((2)S:**a(~:)~*^~)((1)S*a(~:)~*^~) < 1279665922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~())~*aSaSaSaS < 1279665922 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12(~()(2)S:**a(~:)~*^~)((2)S:**a(~:)~*^~)((1)S*a(~:)~*^~) ...out of stack! < 1279665973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: About how thick would you say those wires are? < 1279665989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1279665989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which ones, the headphone ones or the earbud ones? < 1279666001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both, I guess. < 1279666021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The headphone wires look thick < 1279666027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earbuds, not so much < 1279666038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me take a pic < 1279666042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmkay. Get ones with replacable cables. < 1279666071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the attached headphones, BTW, will almost certainly be absolutely wonderful to listen to) < 1279666072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ < 1279666074 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :122112122122112112212112122112112122122112122121121122122112122122112112122121122122112122122112112212112122122112112122112112212112112212211212212112212212112112212211212212112112212112122112112122121122122112122122112112122112112212212112122112112212112112212212112122112112122122112122121121122122121122122112122122112112 ...too much output! < 1279666081 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessssss < 1279666088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what sequence is that? < 1279666098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kolakoski, assuming it's correct < 1279666126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/DVIRu.jpg < 1279666159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "image not found" < 1279666180 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm, I see < 1279666208 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no clue why, though < 1279666209 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes it seems to match what's on wikipedia < 1279666212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird font on the phone? < 1279666243 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/DVlRu.jpg < 1279666262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1279666292 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely need replacable wiring. < 1279666311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sad, though; noise cancelling headphones that can have a broken wire. < 1279666323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use the noise cancellation < 1279666325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds to wiki < 1279666326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These were my dad's < 1279666355 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I hold the wire just right, it works < 1279666365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get you some Sennheiser phones. < 1279666407 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION translates the poem from Greek into an archaic form of English so that it *still* doesn't rhyme. < 1279666449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: now you have even more reason to learn underload *evil cackle* < 1279666464 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Sigh, yeah < 1279666487 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-205-198.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279666498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are wireless headphones any good? < 1279666511 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1279666527 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF at $1000 headphones < 1279666534 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're right, using a(...)~*^ is convenient :) < 1279666595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And you'll never have to buy them again. < 1279666595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279666611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not paying $1000 for headphones < 1279666652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darnit, you're not made of money. < 1279666765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sennheiserusa.com/private_headphones_audiophile-headphones_005341 is that decent? < 1279666804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by "decent" you mean "as good as you can get without selling organs", then yes. < 1279666960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad says he has headphones in the house < 1279666968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that he'll try something called a "relief fold" < 1279667423 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody in here mentioned a very long time ago a company that prints custom cards for card games ... any recollection? < 1279667514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls zzo38 being involved in such a discussion < 1279667554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wasn't _that_ long ago, i think it was this year < 1279667578 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, that's a lifetime ago. < 1279667596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason i have a feeling pikhq was involved, too < 1279667609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but I'm now curious. < 1279667709 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mother-in-law is convinced that I need to adjust Hydra to involve some cusom cards, then produce it and try to pitch it to e.g. Mattel or Hasbro. Which is hilariously absurd, but I like step 1 :P < 1279667710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's as much as my vague memory contains. well that and that it was expensive to do. < 1279667771 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hydra? is this anything to do with that goldstein sequence thing? < 1279667779 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1279667789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: If by "Hasbro" she means "Wizards of the Coast", it might almost work. < 1279667792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1279667798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a card game that relies on transfinite induction. < 1279667821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I hope it is. < 1279667832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, *goodstein < 1279667871 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'fraid not, folks < 1279667908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1279667955 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1279667964 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tired of typing on my phone :P < 1279667975 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/wiki/Hydra <-- Hydra is this < 1279668101 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(People seem to enjoy it because the rules are quite simple but, as the number of heads increases, it has a surprising amount of strategy involved) < 1279668151 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These aren't circumaural < 1279668188 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null < 1279668244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transaural, for airheads < 1279668362 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1279668396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/Qb7ns.jpg < 1279668540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes pikhq  < 1279668566 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1279668576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Insufficiently Sennheiser! < 1279668618 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see nobody has opinions on my card game :P < 1279668642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will these at least have decent sound quality? < 1279668698 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1279668809 0 :Madk!~Madk@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279668812 0 :_Madk!~Madk@c-71-63-79-112.hsd1.va.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1279668894 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Seems < 1279668904 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1279669185 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think these are minimum-volume headphones < 1279669205 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a very small head to use them < 1279669257 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1279670001 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1279670155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: heh, why did you put the a there? < 1279670162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it works the same way there, and after the ~ < 1279670166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is a rather redundant language < 1279670268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait where? < 1279670289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (12)S(*a(~:)~*^~):((1)S)~*~((2)S:*)~*:(~:()~)~*^(a(:^)*~a(*()~)~*^~^):^ < 1279670290 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :122112122122112112212112122112112122122112122121121122122112122122112112122121122122112122122112112212112122122112112122112112212112112212211212212112212212112112212211212212112112212112122112112122121122122112122122112112122112112212212112122112112212112112212212112122112112122122112122121121122122121122122112122122112112 ...too much output! < 1279670291 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1279670314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1279670352 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1279670360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i thought of ~* as more of a unit