00:03:13 @(D $) (D -) $ 00:05:19 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:10:59 %(* Y) ' _ % ! '(7 :) 00:10:59 ` . `(_ 7) !(0 W) 00:10:59 %(1 3) 00:11:01 No output. 00:11:06 beh 00:11:09 shut up HackEgo 00:15:53 % 00:15:56 %hello 00:16:05 Oh, ` . 00:23:13 _ @(? ~(`(I _(3 X)) 9)) .(*(%($ `(! =)) $(? _)) /(% *)) + & 00:23:18 pretty 00:31:03 Random irritating thing: why can't the integers be abbreviated to I, rather than Z? 00:32:22 Phantom_Hoover, hm I is something else, isn't it? 00:32:30 Zintegers 00:32:52 It's short for "Zahl", so it might be because a German named them. 00:33:25 Q makes sense, as do N and R. 00:33:39 Q does not. It should be K 00:33:46 Is there a letter for the algebraic numbers? 00:33:49 and Z should be H 00:33:57 AnMaster, why K and H? 00:33:58 N does make sense, and so does R 00:33:58 Not to my knowledhe. 00:34:04 Phantom_Hoover, because that matches Swedish 00:34:09 There's one for constructible numbers, I think 00:34:12 Kvoter and Heltal 00:34:16 Q is for "quotient". 00:34:20 Ahh. 00:34:30 Phantom_Hoover, why so English centric 00:34:39 that is what I'm trying to poke fun at 00:34:42 Hm 00:34:44 Got a book 00:34:46 Well, H is the quaternions for very good reasons. 00:34:49 Says algebraic are A 00:34:55 constructibles are gamma 00:34:55 Phantom_Hoover, well that would be Q then 00:35:05 Q = Quaternions 00:35:08 Good point. 00:35:21 Quaternions are H 00:35:27 Phantom_Hoover, anyway, I was trying to poke fun at you being too English-centric 00:35:31 For Hypercomplex 00:36:00 AnMaster, I just want consistency! 00:36:02 um not for Hamilton? 00:36:06 Maybe 00:36:07 Iunno 00:36:15 Make them all Swedish, or all German, or all English. 00:36:21 Phantom_Hoover, but the other letters probably matches German? 00:36:21 or? 00:36:26 well maybe not H 00:36:34 but Q R and N I would assume do 00:36:34 They're all of historical origins, Phantom_Hoover. 00:36:38 Q should of course be B, for brøk 00:36:41 As are every scientific things. 00:36:47 Slereah, I know, of course. 00:36:51 oerjan, yes that would work for Swedish too, BrÃ¥l 00:36:52 err 00:36:55 BrÃ¥k* 00:37:16 oerjan, wait you use an ö there!? 00:37:17 wtf 00:37:20 seriously 00:37:36 of course not, i use an ø 00:38:07 brÃ¥k means noise in norwegian 00:39:23 SGI's math library has a single-precision-float-pair complex number type "complex", but the double-precision variant is called "zomplex"; I had a hard time not to think of zombies or "zomg, complex numbers!" every time I heard it. 00:39:43 oerjan, brÃ¥k means ~brawl in Swedish as well 00:39:45 enter the zomplex at your own risk 00:40:21 fizzie, did they provide any rationale? 00:41:05 Hmm, that gives me an idea. 00:41:36 Nomplexes are a+bi where a, b \in N 00:42:15 Zomplexes are a, b \in | 00:42:22 s/|/Z/ 00:42:43 Qomplexes in Q, and Romplexes in R. 00:43:00 Zomplexes are therefore more commonly known as Gaussian integers. 00:43:03 hm brÃ¥k could also be trouble. not brawl i think, maybe riot. 00:43:49 oh wait english brawl can mean that too? 00:44:09 oerjan, riot could be included in brÃ¥k too 00:44:10 it can, pretty much 00:44:37 a brawl is a relatively disordered combat between a bunch of people, normally with no or improvised weapons 00:44:54 um i meant, brawl can mean things not involving fighting 00:44:56 and generally they're just attacking whoever's nearest or whoever they hit 00:45:02 hmm, really? 00:45:08 but brÃ¥k could also be a lot milder. You could have some children "brÃ¥kande" about some toy or such as well. 00:45:15 in Polish brak means lack of sth 00:45:17 in English neither riot nor brawl would work there 00:45:25 google define: says so... 00:45:27 agreed 00:45:33 (to AnMaster) 00:45:59 brak is an omnemat word in Swedish for something breaking or such. Or falling down with a large noice 00:46:06 noise* 00:46:11 ? =(- &(% C)) ^(1 $(@(1 =) `(* T))) ^(! +(_ 8)) = 00:46:18 nooga, what esolang? 00:46:27 i don't know yet 00:46:35 i'm trying to generate one 00:46:41 well the denotation of brÃ¥k is afaik about the noise, while for brawl it's about the fighting, even if they can overlap 00:46:51 nooga, the answer to that equation should be 42 00:46:55 hehe 00:47:01 brak is an onomatopoeion in norwegian too 00:47:07 dunder og brak 00:47:11 indeed 00:47:24 dunder och brak in Swedish 00:47:50 brÃ¥k can't be noise in Swedish though 00:48:20 oh 00:49:06 AnMaster: I think they took that from BLAS/LAPACK function names, which use a single-letter prefix S/D/C/Z depending on whether the routine operates on single/double/single-complex/double-complex args. Don't know why a z there, but there's not really an obvious choice to take. 00:49:24 oerjan, also att brÃ¥ka is also some technical step in the process of making linnen from flax iirc 00:49:55 fizzie, hm 00:49:55 Also double-precision complex might have been added later than the others. 00:49:56 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:51:31 fizzie, obviously they decided they weren't going to add any other "class" of functions, thus decided to be final about it with the choice of the last letter 00:52:12 fizzie: z is the usual name for complex variables, isn't it? 00:52:18 it's like the complex version of x 00:52:37 oh right 00:52:39 good point 00:53:41 AnMaster: hm the noun brÃ¥k apparently has something to do with flax in norwegian too 00:53:54 "Etter at linet var tørket (pÃ¥ bastu eller kjone, se dette), ble den trelignende kjernen i linstenglene knust, oftest ved hjelp av (lin-)brÃ¥k, f." 00:55:52 kjone? 00:55:53 hm verb too 00:55:56 "NÃ¥r det var høveleg turt, tok me det pÃ¥ brÃ¥ke og brÃ¥ka det. BrÃ¥ki var ein kubbe som stod pÃ¥ tvo føter i eine enden, men lÃ¥g nedpÃ¥ jordi med hin. Dei brukte mykje attÃ¥t visse, kunnige kjerringar te brÃ¥ke." 00:56:07 that's some hideously old nynorsk :D 00:56:26 oerjan, brÃ¥k is a noun and verb in Swedish 00:56:41 well actually, brÃ¥ka is the verb 00:56:52 well this is about the flax meanings 00:57:05 not sure there 00:57:25 no idea what kjone means, bastu is ~sauna 00:58:20 well bastu is bastu in Swedish too 00:58:24 so I could guess that 00:58:44 oerjan, iirc you mess up the meaning of the word "roligt" too, to mean something else than "fun" 00:59:11 i was really confused today when at my favorite restaurant 00:59:24 oh? 00:59:33 there's this swedish waiter, and she said something involving "roligt" 01:00:13 and i _know_ the difference in meaning, but she actually used it for the norwegian meaning... 01:00:41 HA 01:01:04 (norwegian rolig means ~sv:lugnt, she was talking about how it was a slow day i think) 01:01:26 my brother studies norwegian philology :D 01:02:27 incidentally the _modern_ norwegian word for sauna is badstu with a d 01:02:51 hm i guess that was just a typo, then 01:03:16 what was ta typo? 01:03:33 a* 01:04:12 bastu in that norwegian quote above 01:04:29 oerjan: do you know where Floro lies?? 01:04:58 oerjan, hm 01:05:06 oerjan, or they used the proper spelling 01:05:07 Florø 01:05:10 ;P 01:05:20 * oerjan swats AnMaster -----### 01:05:27 nooga: well i can find out 01:05:28 nooga, I guess on the veil island 01:05:39 * AnMaster wonders if that joke carries over to Norwegian 01:05:51 ;p 01:05:59 flor is more about flowers, although it's not very common in norwegian 01:06:10 "blomster stÃ¥r i flor" 01:06:15 err 01:06:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:06:30 "stÃ¥ i blomster" exists in Swedish 01:06:42 but well, "blomster stÃ¥r i blomster" would be just silly 01:06:46 though that would work 01:06:49 beh 01:07:03 -!- relet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:24 "stÃ¥r i blomst" is also possible 01:07:27 http://cutr.pl/612967a049 01:07:34 oerjan, btw how come I never see any Norwegians working in Sweden? 01:07:47 easy 01:07:50 AnMaster: swedish is a low-salary country compared to norway 01:07:54 Sweden < Norway 01:07:56 ah right 01:08:07 EU < Norway 01:08:08 also, higher unemployment 01:08:12 World < Norway 01:08:23 (also low-price, if you live close to the border and either work at systembolaget or in a supermarket that is significant) 01:08:29 oerjan, don't you have higher living costs iirc? 01:08:32 i _think_ norway has about the lowest unemployment in europe 01:08:38 well so they say 01:08:57 -!- Madk has joined. 01:08:59 i saw norwegians working in scotland 01:09:05 hey hey hey 01:09:10 check THIS out 01:09:18 my newest esolang idea :D 01:09:18 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gerbil 01:09:28 gerbil? isn't that a rodent? 01:09:34 That AI will be horrible to code 01:09:36 libger 01:09:38 olsner: yes 01:09:46 apparently it's german based 01:10:25 nooga: it's supposedly the westernmost town in norway 01:10:31 olsner: I also created Cardinal, I'm not so against animal names :P 01:11:05 nooga: sounds (like it could be) related to "libgrr, fueled by anger" 01:11:17 oerjan: uhuh 01:12:01 Madk: you get N plus-points for application of gerbils and kittens to esolangs 01:12:15 :D 01:12:30 2 internets 01:12:34 i'd say 01:13:06 nooga: of course, there is an official exchange rate for plus-points to/from internets 01:13:26 I dunno what value for N correspond to 2 internets though 01:15:30 Madk: reminds me a bit of Hunter 01:17:19 well 01:17:37 although not so much details in common 01:18:32 just the 2d and the moving animal theme 01:19:20 did you know that i'm thinking about a language like famous Feather? 01:20:24 and at the base level it still looks pretty much like Scheme :| 01:21:08 Madk, suggestion: drop @ 01:21:25 Madk, rather program should terminate where there are no gerbils left 01:21:35 Yeah, that seems like a good idea 01:22:01 Madk, that makes cat/kittens more required too 01:22:11 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:22:30 I think it'll be a real challenge to code in - technically once could just do M [code] % but then you'd have no loops 01:22:40 @ could mean division by 0 and therefore estruction of simulated universe 01:22:50 d* 01:23:05 if you wanted a loop of any sort, you'd have to introduce dispensers and reproduction and cats and obstacles and a plethora of other elements 01:23:07 nooga, mine is harder to code it 01:23:08 in* 01:23:20 (oh, and I meant M [code] %* 01:23:22 ) 01:23:48 the gerbil heads for the feed and does the instructions but dies before the feed is reached 01:23:54 Madk, the exact behaviour of cats, kittens must be defined in the spec 01:23:58 yeah 01:23:59 ah, underload is so elegant 01:24:05 otherwise, it would be implementation defined 01:24:06 Nothing will be random 01:24:12 and that would be bad 01:24:16 Madk, very nice esolang 01:24:28 but I need to see how things will play out before I set anything in concrete 01:24:37 hm 01:24:46 you _might_ need a one way door or such 01:24:56 perhaps. 01:25:15 There's already one 01:25:25 the bridge? 01:25:26 no 01:25:30 you can use #.#(## 01:25:31 that allows two directions 01:25:38 . being where the door should shut 01:25:56 . is output? 01:25:57 need to reopen in, _)#.# 01:26:03 just blank space 01:26:06 trying to show 01:26:17 also I see no way to programmatic control a door at all 01:27:23 0 - returns the memory cell pointer to 0 01:27:26 Madk, define returns 01:27:58 setting gerbil in concrete, how cruel 01:28:05 set it to the 0 address 01:28:13 oerjan: :P 01:28:49 need to reopen in, _)#.# <-- what is _ 01:29:03 Well, this imbicile looking for hackers to help him went to ##C, then to #nethack 01:29:07 Now he's asking me for help 01:29:15 #nethack... 01:29:19 anmaster: _ was a blank space 01:29:22 Any ideas on what I could do? >:D 01:29:30 Madk, I use a mono space font. I can see spaces 01:29:34 Sgeo, /ignore 01:29:45 AnMaster, I mentioned #nethack in ##C, wondering if they experience the problem more 01:29:54 wait 01:30:00 those () are supposed to be <> 01:30:10 oh 01:30:55 I'll start coding it a bit later, I'm not looking forward to getting A* to work :| 01:30:59 Madk, what activates ><^v 01:31:07 Me: "I do know of places that would laugh at you, and places that would probably attack you for merely making the suggestion." 01:31:21 Madk, A being? 01:31:24 maybe only gerbils and kittens, don't know yet 01:31:31 but yeah 01:32:20 Since it's going to involve at lot of highly unpredicatble (but still nonrandom and definite) AI, I don't want to settle on much of anything yet 01:32:34 When I code AI, I like to overdo it 01:32:36 okay 01:32:39 :P 01:32:47 Madk, do cats with neural networks then 01:32:53 you can't overdo much more than that 01:33:03 anmaster: neural nets aren't suited for this 01:33:06 first they ignore you, then laugh at you, then hate you 01:33:10 and I _have_ written one before 01:33:10 Madk, true 01:33:17 night → 01:33:25 goodnight 01:34:09 anmaster: neural nets are for pattern recognition, not logical behavior 01:34:42 it's why getting a neural net to recognize XOR logic is so difficult 01:35:05 hm apparently the original is by gandhi 01:36:12 oerjan: First they ignore you, then they continue to ignore you, then they go do something else while you cry in the fetal position. 01:36:33 Gregor: i don't _think_ that's how gandhi said it 01:36:45 oerjan: original what? 01:36:46 They misquoted him. 01:36:58 Madk: quote 01:37:17 ah 01:37:28 "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." 01:37:42 Gregor: And then, you make some salt and somehow years later you are remembered forever. 01:38:01 ah it's apparently disputed that gandhi said it 01:38:24 Madk: it just fit with sgeo's hacker 01:38:34 I see 01:39:21 so because of Sgeo he is now destined to take over all the world's computers and become world dictator. alas. 01:39:21 Today's lesson in how to be offensive: Mahatma-X 01:39:40 (the "then you win" part) 01:39:49 A movie, "based on a true story", chronicling Mahatma Gandhi's secret life as a hitman for the mob. 01:40:10 Based on a true story in that the parts in which he isn't killing people are taken from his real life. 01:40:37 Gregor: i thought you were going for mingling in some malcolm X there too 01:40:47 Gregor: *cough*Gandhi II*cough* 01:41:09 oerjan: GANDHI/MALCOLM-X SLASH GO 01:41:18 pikhq: in which he is revealed to be an alien from another planet *ducks and runs* 01:42:21 ... What, did nobody else see Weird Al's UHF? 01:42:51 I didn't recall that scene :P 01:42:52 apparently not, i'm just making a parallel to another film i've never seen 01:42:55 Had to go look it up on YouTube. 01:43:02 Gregor: Curses. 01:43:23 How can you forget the idea of Gandhi returning? And this time, it's personal!? 01:43:27 oerjan: Alas. 01:44:17 pikhq: throw in the buddha, maybe? 01:44:34 oerjan: Awesome. 01:44:50 Heck, throw in the Laughing Buddha, too. 01:45:02 i'd also throw in jesus, except he _did_ get personal in at least one scene at the temple 01:45:11 *HIGH PITCH SCREECH* 01:45:15 *DRAWN OUT* 01:45:19 *IT'S BUILDING* 01:45:25 *STARTING QUIETLY* 01:45:26 oerjan: Arguably Jesus took everything personally. 01:45:34 *THE CAMERA BLINKS ON* 01:45:56 *THERE'S A PRE-REVOLUTIONARY US ARMY" 01:46:27 *THERE'S A LOT OF INFANTRY* 01:46:33 *AND SOME HORSES* 01:46:47 *THE CAMERA IS PANNING, SHOWING THE ARMY* 01:47:09 *THE GENERALS ARE FALLING* 01:47:15 *BUT THE SOLDIERS ARE NOT* 01:47:15 hm yes there's that whole "No One Comes To The Father Except Through Me" thing 01:47:33 *THE CAMERA SHOWS MORE GENERALS AND ARMY* 01:47:38 *THEY ALL FALL* 01:47:41 *THEN* 01:47:53 *A GENERAL ON A WHITE HORSE* 01:48:09 *ALL THE SOLDIERS AROUND HIM FALL BUT HE DOES NOT* 01:48:19 the buildup stops, it's silent 01:48:29 flames are flickering but otherwise it's black 01:48:38 the flames start to reveal the face of an indean chief 01:48:42 he mumbles 01:48:49 "I wanted to meet the man.." 01:48:56 oerjan: He's also remembered for such feats as telling a corpse to walk out of the grave. 01:48:57 ".. who bullets could not kill." 01:49:09 pikhq: details, details 01:49:10 cue epic drum solo 01:49:15 :P 01:49:26 a bunch of war scenes flash quickly 01:49:36 low movie announcer voice 01:49:43 "GEORGE WASHINGTON" 01:49:51 "in theaters this summer" 01:50:40 ... And then everybody dance naked on top of the building, singing Uganda's national anthem and flogging themselves with young rhubarb 01:50:47 no? 01:51:02 nooga: i _think_ you may be confusing it with another movie 01:51:06 oh 01:51:24 just a hunch, mind you 01:51:35 with washington played by the guy neo in matrix (and the star in speed) and I can't recall his name 01:52:09 it'd be like an action-biography 01:52:15 keanu reeves 01:52:30 did you know there are a ton of epic rumors about washington before he'd become president 01:52:41 oerjan: sounds familiar, yea 01:52:59 i only know about a certain tree and axe 01:53:04 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:53:05 that trailer description is rumored to have actually happened 01:53:15 it's said his clothing was full of bullet holes 01:53:38 it's also (I think this one's true) said he had 3 horses shot from under him in some battle 01:53:38 if you say so 01:53:50 HA 01:54:05 i got an idea for an awesome arcade game 01:54:08 something that happened to jackson could be fusged to fit george though 01:54:28 before he was quite president, a man tried to shoot and assassinate andrew jackson 01:54:33 his handgun failed twice 01:54:39 it was a 6 shot revolver 01:54:45 all 6 rounds had been loaded 01:55:03 C-C-C-C-C-... 01:55:04 that, I think, is an actual event 01:55:08 COMPILE ERROR 01:55:11 ;F 01:55:12 lol 01:55:40 also, adrew jackson took place in a lot of duels 01:55:50 he was riddled with lead by the time he died at a ripe old age 01:56:00 or was that stonewall 01:56:07 I really don't remember .-. 01:56:57 On January 30, 1835, what is believed to be the first attempt to kill a sitting President of the United States occurred just outside the United States Capitol. When Jackson was leaving the Capitol out of the East Portico after the funeral of South Carolina Representative Warren R. Davis, Richard Lawrence, an unemployed and deranged housepainter from England, either burst from a crowd or stepped out from hiding behind a column and aimed a 01:56:57 pistol at Jackson, which misfired. Lawrence then pulled out a second pistol, which also misfired. It has been postulated that moisture from the humid weather contributed to the double misfiring.[50] Lawrence was then restrained, with legend saying that Jackson attacked Lawrence with his cane, prompting his aides to restrain him. Others present, including David Crockett, restrained and disarmed Lawrence. 01:57:04 who's Andrew Jackson? 01:57:12 a president of the US 01:57:23 never heard of 01:57:31 16th othe 7th 01:57:39 the 7th president* 01:58:31 ah lame assasination methods 01:59:01 Senator Crockett was such a badass. 01:59:18 nah, he was a lam-o 01:59:57 couldn't they just crash one plane with half of government, high command and the president :D 02:00:30 nooga: of course not, they hadn't invented planes yet 02:00:35 right 02:02:11 aha, that reminded me a situation from yesterday: they've put big cross in front of presidential palace in Warsaw 02:02:52 and the battle beagn because some ppl want the cross to be there and others don't like it 02:03:16 hm wait crockett only was a representative, not a senator 02:03:17 and then pastafarians came and put big bowl of spaghetti in front of the palace 02:04:05 then catholics got extremelly pissed off 02:05:35 ridiculous 02:15:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:24:21 bedtime 02:24:23 gn8 02:24:28 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 02:24:29 DON'T LEAVE 02:24:32 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooo 02:24:45 i feel so alone 02:25:23 boo 02:33:34 bees 02:43:00 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 02:43:03 zzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt 02:43:06 zz 02:43:10 bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 02:43:17 BZT 02:43:18 BZT 02:43:30 bizzzzzzzzzzzZZzzZZZZzzzzzzz... 02:43:39 zzzzzt 02:43:43 zizt 02:44:15 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:53:16 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:01:39 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 03:17:37 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 03:18:06 -!- Madk has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:31:25 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 03:44:57 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 03:46:29 -!- poiuy_qwert has joined. 04:38:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:41:02 -!- coppro has joined. 04:49:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:58:15 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:03:33 -!- coppro has joined. 05:05:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:05:14 -!- augur has joined. 05:34:14 -!- coppro has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:33:49 * cheater99 suddenly finds a forgotten stash of porn movies. 07:43:00 * pikhq is certain you will soon regret finding it 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:15 -!- Madk has joined. 08:10:42 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:10:44 -!- MizardX has joined. 08:58:42 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:58:44 -!- yiyus has joined. 09:10:29 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:10:42 -!- MizardX has joined. 09:36:56 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:39:27 -!- tombom has joined. 09:48:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:07:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:40:28 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:40:48 -!- relet has joined. 10:41:43 -!- MizardX has joined. 11:11:54 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:16:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:24:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 11:33:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null). 11:34:44 -!- zzo38 has joined. 11:38:31 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:46:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:47:57 Do you know, write anything on this channel? 11:48:03 s/know/now/ 11:48:07 Nope. 11:48:56 No-one's mentioned anything of interest, and I can't se the point in bringing up last night's discussion without at least oerjan, ais or alise. 11:49:06 OK 11:51:04 When I play Dungeons and Dragons game, I try to avoid to kill someone, in nearly all cases, sometimes there is exceptions. Other player characters and non-player character sin the same team are differently though. My brother's character is NINJA 11:51:27 He is NINJA? 11:51:51 Wait, I'm unfamiliar with D&D. 11:51:56 What's an NPC sin? 11:51:57 I capitalized it just for emphasis only 11:52:09 s/character sin/characters in/ 11:52:16 (I put the space in the wrong place by mistake) 11:52:19 Aww, that would have been cool. 11:54:26 -!- Wamanuz has joined. 11:54:52 There are some non-player characters in the same party, one of which not human. Mostly those non-player characters are the king's guards and so on, and might use magic missiles and swords and various things. But I don't use any of that stuff. I use things like "Control Light" and webs. 11:55:54 How do you think you would play a game such as D&D, in your opinion? 11:56:02 I have no idea. 11:56:22 -!- relet has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:56:27 I've got a terrible feeling that I would be unable to take everything seriously, at least at first. 11:56:58 I always win because I do everything always unexpected 11:57:29 "I jump off a cliff wearing my underpants on my head." 11:57:46 Not quite like that, but.... 11:58:17 XD 11:58:27 The DM makes up situations they don't know how to win but the players do figure it out anyways 11:58:34 zzo38, also, is there no channel on freenode dedicated to D&D? 11:58:40 AnMaster, BORING. 11:58:46 Phantom_Hoover, what? 11:59:03 AnMaster: There is on other IRC networks 11:59:06 D&D : zzo38 :: Active Worlds : Sgeo? 11:59:09 Oh, let's not let him distract us from all of our on-topic conversations. 11:59:51 There is no need to be distracted when you have any on-topic conversations! But currently is few people on here 12:01:01 But when I do kill someone in D&D (which is rarely), I would often eat them or let Obkwag eat them, or both eat them 12:01:16 But usually there is 100 other choices no need kill someone 12:01:32 Eating one's enemies is indeed unexpected. 12:02:24 D&D : zzo38 :: Active Worlds : Sgeo? <-- no, zzo38 does trading games too 12:02:27 iirc 12:02:36 like magic the gathering 12:02:39 I do non-AW things! 12:02:39 or such 12:02:47 Sgeo, okay you have PSOX too 12:02:47 Often when they are still live. Obkwag does the same 12:03:12 The scary thing is, that was the easiest example to think of offhand 12:03:16 zzo38, why eat them 12:03:22 zzo38, have you tried the Spanish Inquisition for an unexpected thing? 12:03:34 Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! 12:03:47 * Phantom_Hoover watches that on Youtube. 12:04:05 Phantom_Hoover, take that last one too, where everybody does 12:04:12 I wrote an interpreter for http://esolangs.org/wiki/Foobar_and_Foobaz_and_Barbaz,_oh_my! 12:04:17 Phantom_Hoover: Yes I have thought of that idea once, where I thought it might be useful. 12:04:17 Admittedly, that was a long time ago 12:04:22 And rather cruddy 12:05:07 You waste the body if you do not eat them? Also because someone is more hungry? 12:05:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Java 12:05:20 What do *you* think?? 12:06:01 -!- Madk has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:06:18 Sgeo, how about MORTGAGE? 12:06:36 It has one command, MORTGAGE, which prints your mortgage interest. 12:08:04 Also because Obkwag is otyugh and my character is ettercap. But most character are human 12:08:22 (The names "Obkwag" and "Vyb" were selected by rolling the dice for each letter) 12:08:58 (You roll 1d6 to select type (vowel/consonant/stop) (6 means stop), and 1d6 for vowel, 1d20 for consonants.) 12:09:02 zzo38, a d26? 12:09:14 or how many letters the English alphabet has 12:09:17 I never remember 12:09:28 AnMaster: No you use the 1d6 and 1d20 like I described 12:09:40 zzo38, right, lag, didn't see that until after 12:09:49 Yes. 12:09:54 zzo38, still that seems to not be completely fair 12:09:58 That's what I thought 12:10:21 AnMaster: If you don't like the name generated, modify it or reroll another name or just make one up yourself 12:10:28 hm 12:10:51 zzo38, Markov chain thingy? 12:10:51 The name "Vyb" was at first "Vb" but I then added the "y" in the middle by manually. 12:11:10 zzo38, I would suggest roll 1d10 for length, then do completely fair rolls for each letter 12:11:28 which would require some custom dice I suspect 12:11:35 AnMaster: You can do that too if that is the way you prefer. 12:12:00 Another way is using d% and assigning a group of numbers to each letter corresponding to how likely you want each letter to occur 12:12:06 But there are more ways 12:12:12 zzo38, you could roll 1d2 for upper/lower case of each letter 12:12:27 Another way could be to use Furryscript 12:12:30 zzo38, d100? that exists? 12:12:43 well yes but anyone uses it? 12:12:44 zzo38, how can you combine a probability of 1/6 and 1/20 to get 1/26? 12:12:52 You don't need d100, you can use d% which means 2 of d10 dice, one with 00-10-20-... and the other 0 to 9 12:13:02 ah 12:13:07 zzo38, "Furryscript"? 12:13:08 Phamtom_Hoover: The probabilities are not even. 12:13:18 Exactly. 12:13:43 The first 1d6 for each letter selects the mode (vowel/consonant/stop), the second 1d6 selects a vowel, the 1d20 selects a consonant 12:13:50 Ahh. 12:13:55 zzo38, what is Furryscript? 12:14:24 http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/webform.php 12:14:28 Why not use 1/3 and 1/10, then map some punctuation to 27-29? 12:14:44 I have not written a name generator script in there yet, but I might do so later, or you might do so. 12:14:51 So you can get stuff with apostrophes, and that always looks delightfully weird 12:15:22 You can access http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/custom.php if you want to write your own script without downloading the program (in case you don't have PHP on your computer) 12:15:50 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:15:51 zzo38, what is parameter used for 12:16:14 AnMaster: Nothing, in any of the scripts in the selection list, yet. 12:16:17 oerjan! 12:16:29 ah 12:17:03 But if you write new scripts, the commands PAR PA PA+ can use the parameter value. 12:17:10 zzo38, I'm not sure "The well has turned clear." is such a great adventuring idea but heh ;) 12:17:41 (If you are using the custom.php form, you can use the PAS command to enter parameter values) 12:17:46 * oerjan peeks carefully 12:18:06 * Phantom_Hoover jumps off a cliff wearing his underpants on his head 12:18:16 DIDN'T EXPECT THAT, DID YOU? 12:18:19 ah, entertainment! 12:18:47 no, not really 12:20:52 Phantom_Hoover, chaotic neutral I see 12:21:02 What's an NPC sin? <-- anything that gives you the slightest excuse to kill them, obviously. such as existing. 12:21:07 zzo38, what alignment do you play? 12:21:19 zzo38, also, which version of D&D do you use? 12:21:20 If you want a plain-text version of Furryscript.php (without syntax highlighting): gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0furry*FURRYSCRIPT 12:21:27 AnMaster: NG, 3.5e 12:21:36 My brother plays NN 12:22:08 * Phantom_Hoover knows that he will have to shovel through 3 weeks of webcomics sooner or later. 12:22:16 zzo38, hm I always preferred NN or LN. Though I played CN a few times. 12:22:31 AnMaster: That's OK, play the alignments you prefer 12:22:45 zzo38, can't be having with those pesky good people ;) 12:22:57 But I play NG and try to avoid to kill someone in most cases, try other ways too 12:23:27 zzo38, I don't get how people can play either LG or CE though 12:23:32 Such as telling someone else maybe they can learn to be good also, or tell them to surrender, or make a tricky way of doing something strange, etc... 12:23:59 AnMaster: All nine alignments are possible, you can play LG or CE just as much as CG or LE or anything else. 12:24:01 zzo38, the last one sounds like chaotic 12:24:32 AnMaster: Yes it does, but I do many things law/chaos in between sometimes too. 12:24:37 zzo38, well I can understand how people can think in terms for LE and CG actually 12:24:39 Hmm, can I get Summon Bigger Fish in D&D? 12:24:49 Phantom_Hoover, XD 12:24:56 Phantom_Hoover: Write that spell and get it reviewed! 12:25:04 zzo38, you read D&D? 12:25:06 err 12:25:09 darth and droids 12:25:10 that is 12:25:15 No 12:25:17 ah 12:25:21 that is what Phantom_Hoover referenced 12:25:26 Hang on, I'll get a link... 12:25:41 But either way... 12:26:15 http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0033.html 12:26:24 I think that's the first time it appeared. 12:26:25 zzo38, what do you think about NWN? 12:26:34 AnMaster: No opinion. 12:26:40 zzo38, after all that uses D&D rules for it's game engine 12:26:52 I don't know much about NWN. 12:26:58 ah 12:27:08 zzo38, what do you think about multiclassing then? 12:27:11 But, you can't play proper D&D as a computer game you need to use paper to play good way D&D 12:27:29 And I would assume you need a human for the GM. 12:27:38 zzo38, I would suggest roll 1d10 for length, then do completely fair rolls for each letter 12:27:42 `simpleacro 12:27:47 Phantom_Hoover, actually, NWN supports that for multiplayer games 12:27:52 No output. 12:27:58 I think multiclassing in D&D is good (although I don't like the "favored class" stuff and would rather no XP penalty and instead just waste XP normally instead 12:28:02 ...now what 12:28:10 `run ls bin/s* 12:28:11 zzo38, indeed 12:28:12 bin/sayhi \ bin/strfile \ bin/swedish 12:28:14 My own character is many multiclass 12:28:19 ^show 12:28:19 echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help hw srmlebac uenlsbcmra scramble unscramble asc ord 12:28:23 `swedish 12:28:25 No output. 12:28:28 `swedish hello 12:28:29 hellu 12:28:42 !help userinterps 12:28:43 userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. 12:28:48 I find that deeply satisfying for some reason. 12:28:49 !userinterps 12:28:50 Installed user interpreters: aol austro b1ff bc bct bfbignum brit brooklyn bypass_ignore bytes chaos chef chiqrsx9p choo cockney ctcp dc decisionengine drawl drome dubya echo eehird ehird fudd funetak google graph gregor he hello id jethro kraut num ook pansy pirate plot postmodern postmodern_aoler redneck reverse rot13 sadbf sfedeesh sffedeesh sffffedeesh sffffffffedeesh simpleacro slashes svedeesh swedish valspeak warez yodawg 12:28:56 sheesh 12:28:58 !simpleacro 12:28:58 !simpleacro 12:28:59 !simpleacro 12:29:04 Heh. 12:29:06 If you do play D&D on computer, it is best done using plain text, over IRC or play by mail. 12:29:13 zzo38, hm 12:29:18 But it is better without the computer. 12:29:20 wth 12:29:22 !help 12:29:22 help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . 12:29:25 KZASDROE 12:29:25 UTT 12:29:25 ZPZ 12:29:26 zzo38, actually I found NWN works quite nicely 12:29:35 oerjan, it is just slow 12:29:47 oerjan, the three simultaneous requests clogged it. 12:29:55 !simpleacro 12:29:57 ZFWTODHEDE 12:30:03 AnMaster: that's essentially the method you said, and it has no guarantee of being pronouncable 12:30:12 Phantom_Hoover, no. It just tends to be like that when not recently used 12:30:27 oerjan, nor does the method zzo38 suggested 12:30:44 oerjan, but KZASDROE is quite nice 12:31:26 at least you can base a nice name on it: KZASDROE → Kzasadore 12:31:27 O, is your character human character? 12:31:38 zzo38, mine in nwn? yes 12:32:08 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:32:24 multiclassed fighter/wizard, NN 12:32:35 10 levels in fighter, 5 in wizard 12:33:01 AnMaster: he adjusts the vowel/consonant/stop frequencies, that can give a higher chance 12:33:10 oerjan, hm true 12:33:37 !simpleacro 12:33:40 XCWJNYEE 12:33:43 !simpleacro 12:33:45 TBRTNXNLCM 12:33:47 !simpleacro 12:33:50 BHUO 12:33:54 My character in D&D is, ettercap, multiclassed factotum/psion/erudite/beastheart/semigestalt/etc, NG, I select the Speak Language skill a lot 12:33:56 okay you do have a point 12:34:17 Which method are those names using? 12:34:19 zzo38, you can do that many classes? Maybe different rules... 12:34:39 zzo38, iirc NWN1 (which is what I have) uses 3e rules 12:34:44 not 3.5 12:34:44 AnMaster: You can have any number of classes, but the total level must add up to your experience level 12:35:17 which only lets you have 3 classes, and once you switched you can't level up in one of the former ones any more 12:35:34 !show simpleacro 12:35:34 haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) 12:35:59 replicateM? 12:36:23 randomRIO? 12:36:29 repeat the action len times and take a list of the results 12:36:36 !haskell :t replicateM 12:36:48 Phantom_Hoover, :t doesn't tell you everything you want to know 12:37:04 It gives the type, which is enough to guess. 12:37:23 Phantom_Hoover, after all, not and identity for boolean would have the same type, just as an example 12:37:33 Yes, obviouswly. 12:37:37 s/w// 12:37:39 AnMaster: randomRIO is a class method for generating random values from ranges, using the seed in IO rather than passing your own seed around 12:37:48 oerjan, ah 12:38:10 But given the type and the name, I can make an educated guess. 12:38:26 I wish ghci had proper online docs 12:38:27 !haskell :t Control.Monad.replicateM 12:38:29 Control.Monad.replicateM :: (Monad m) => Int -> m a -> m [a] 12:38:31 like python does for example 12:38:45 or heck even bash 12:38:50 AnMaster: there's a big online manual? 12:39:01 oerjan, not online as in "integrated into the tool" 12:39:12 AnMaster: um that's the _opposite_ of online 12:39:18 oerjan, man man 12:39:23 oerjan, no... offline manual = on paper 12:39:32 online manual = on computer or on internet 12:39:34 man - an interface to the on-line reference manuals 12:39:50 oerjan, I need something I can use in a terminal with no internet connection, and without X running 12:39:54 Confusing, I'll give you that. 12:39:56 AnMaster: hm i always think of online as net 12:40:11 AnMaster, recursive wget + w3m or lynx? 12:40:17 oerjan, the internet is new fangled stuff 12:40:28 And screen, of course. 12:40:30 Phantom_Hoover, not as convenient though 12:40:37 as having, say: 12:40:38 I'll give you that. 12:40:42 :h Foo 12:40:49 -!- mephju has joined. 12:41:02 You could always have a Haskell function to do it, then make ghci load it. 12:41:08 perhaps 12:41:26 Phantom_Hoover, wouldn't be a function starting in : though would it? 12:41:44 No, but can you define your own : things? 12:41:50 * Phantom_Hoover starts ghci 12:42:11 which would thus change that it "variable" 12:42:22 :def? 12:42:29 AnMaster: oh and btw my installation of the haskell platform _does_ include a copy of the ghc manual 12:42:43 Phantom_Hoover, oh cool 12:42:59 oerjan, I don't think mine does 12:43:27 it's in html format 12:43:33 oerjan, still fails then 12:43:50 AnMaster, ghc-doc on Ubuntu. 12:43:51 erlang at least have erl -man 12:44:03 which is less convenient than python's or bash's docs 12:44:04 "C:\Programfiler\Haskell Platform\2010.1.0.0\doc\html\index.html" 12:44:06 but still better 12:44:15 Phantom_Hoover, I don't use ubuntu on this system 12:44:17 arch linux 12:44:34 AnMaster, check your package manager. 12:44:38 Phantom_Hoover, I do however have /usr/share/doc/ghc/html/ 12:44:48 Phantom_Hoover, I very much doubt arch linux splits packages 12:44:55 like debian and ubuntu do 12:45:17 Phantom_Hoover, arch has as a goal to follow upstream as closely as possible 12:45:40 which means that the ghc package is _huge_ 12:45:57 Installed Size : 681026,00 K 12:46:06 um 12:46:11 that is Swedish , 12:46:12 it seems 12:46:19 which is decimal separator 12:46:43 so 665 MB it seems 12:47:15 $ du -sh /usr/share/doc/ghc/html/ 12:47:15 33M/usr/share/doc/ghc/html/ 12:47:23 hm I wonder where the bulk of that is 12:47:56 * oerjan thought du could give you a list of subdirectories too 12:49:23 oerjan, well then I wouldn't use s 12:49:27 s is summary after all 12:49:40 oerjan, and with bulk I meant "bulk of ghc install size" 12:49:43 not bulk of the docs 12:50:13 AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_and_offline at least partially agrees with me (i haven't read all) 12:50:28 oerjan, and? I use the man meaning 12:51:39 AnMaster: hm that might be from back when you connected to unix servers via a network from a terminal. that would be online, while using your desktop/laptop with linux is less so 12:51:53 -!- oklopol has joined. 12:52:13 although one of the sections lists even being connected to power as being online in some situations 12:52:14 oerjan, maybe. But I use the meaning prescribed by the holy man documentation. Though linux isn't that old 12:52:27 oerjan, indeed 12:52:40 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 12:53:10 See the list of gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0furry*%3Fadventure they are from various sources, including some I wrote myself. Which ones do you like best? Do you have any additional ideas? 12:53:23 AnMaster: while offline browsing is exactly the meaning i suggested 12:53:54 I use "online documentation" in the man meaning too 12:54:03 oerjan, no, that would be while on battery ;P 12:54:13 zzo38, oerjan: that is because you both use windows 12:54:18 That is, as opposed to printed documentation. 12:54:22 ah 12:54:30 oerjan, that is because you use windows :P 12:54:33 AnMaster: It has nothing to do with what operating system I use. 12:55:00 * AnMaster forces oerjan to use BSD 4.3 for the next month 12:55:25 AnMaster: um zzo38 agreed with your terms, not mine 12:55:32 oerjan, yes I misread 12:56:10 Yay, found out how def works. 12:56:57 as for windows it uses "arbeide frakoblet" iirc ;D 12:57:12 oerjan, what? 12:57:18 What does "arbeide frakoblet" means? 12:57:21 AnMaster: norwegian version 12:57:27 oerjan, yes but what does it mean 12:57:39 it is unparsable in Swedish 12:57:39 zzo38: work offline, assuming you agree with my meaning of offline :D 12:58:04 oerjan, I think they use "arbeta offline" in Swedish 12:58:13 which sucks as a translation really 12:58:28 I don't mind using "online"/"offline" in multiple ways, many words can have multiple meanings often depending on context 12:58:34 checking the menu *arbeid frakoblet 12:59:42 I especially like the last four entries on the adventure idea list, all of which are my own idea (although the last one was slightly inspired by Godel Escher Bach) 13:00:15 Some of the other ones are good, too, though. 13:00:20 AnMaster: doesn't swedish have a word like frakoblet, then? (frÃ¥nkoblad?) 13:00:39 Some are based on templates, which is why some come strange thing sometimes not always 13:01:17 frÃ¥nkopplad, says google 13:01:57 For example, the line "<.> CAP" itself uses the ADVENTURE template, adds a period to the end, and then capitalizes the first letter of the result (which is useful if the first word is another template!) 13:02:18 oerjan, ah frÃ¥nkopplad 13:02:33 oerjan, it might use that 13:02:34 not sure 13:02:51 What do *you* think?? 13:03:31 zzo38, I have no idea 13:03:53 AnMaster: Did you look at the last four? Have you read Godel Escher Bach? 13:04:02 zzo38, no and no 13:04:07 zzo38, link to the list? 13:04:25 gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net:70/0furry*%3Fadventure 13:04:54 If you want it on HTTP: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/furry/scripts/adventure.txt 13:05:07 zzo38, d100? that exists? 13:05:18 usually you have two d10 of different colors 13:05:45 oerjan: Or, one of them has 00,10,20,30,etc and the other 0,1,2,3,4,etc 13:05:49 or one marked 10 ... right 13:05:54 But they might or might not also be different colors 13:06:04 zzo38, why are the first ones numbered? 13:06:18 AnMaster: Because of the sources they come from are numbered. 13:06:24 hm 13:07:03 Although, I have modified them (mostly by adding templates or by shortening them if they are too long), so they are not exactly the same as the sources they come from. 13:07:24 The ones without numbers are various things from various sources, a lot of them are my own ideas, too. 13:08:29 d100s do also exist. 13:08:43 Deewiant: Yes they do, but it is rarely used, and I don't like to use d100s 13:08:56 Why not? 13:09:37 It is just my opinion! 13:09:44 But the golfball! It's the neat! 13:09:44 Fair enough I guess 13:10:49 fizzie, get a d1000 13:10:55 or just a d500 13:11:01 Get a d(infinity) 13:11:02 I think d100 is the biggest that exists. 13:11:19 Exists in common use, anyway. I'm sure someone's done a bigger as a novelty thing. 13:11:25 zzo38, that would be a perfect sphere 13:11:31 d100 is already a novelty thing. 13:11:37 AnMaster: Yes! 13:11:38 Deewiant, indeed 13:11:40 It's not really "in common use". 13:12:33 Although I guess it's more common than a d30, but that could just be because nothing uses a d30. 13:12:48 Wow, Freefall's story has actually started moving. 13:12:49 It's common enough that I've seen them on a roleplayer's messy desk. 13:13:11 Phantom_Hoover, huh, I haven't read that for over a year or so 13:13:15 Some of the adventure ideas are from ADOM, such as this one: 13:13:17 At least it's safer than a d4 w.r.t. stepping on one. 13:13:20 would have quite a bit to catch up with 13:13:45 zzo38, ADOM, isn't that some computer game? 13:13:47 I have no idea at all why so much happens between interesting things. 13:13:53 AnMaster, roguelike. 13:13:56 fizzie, XD 13:13:56 d4 is difficult to roll the dice a bit 13:14:10 what about D2? 13:14:11 err 13:14:13 d2* 13:14:18 You mean, flip-a-coin? 13:14:36 zzo38, well presumably yes 13:14:38 also I want a d1 13:14:44 a one-sided coin 13:14:56 Phantom_Hoover: i'm not sure freefall is moving _faster_. it's coming to a pivotal point, however. 13:15:03 Is it half-sphere so it can land only one way? 13:15:05 Ooh, someone has opinions: "In 1985 a man named Lou Zocchi invented the 100-sided die or "Zocchihedron." You know, because two D10s were just so damn heavy to roll in tandem. Well, this die certainly rolls -- it rolls and rolls, which makes sense, because it has a hundred sides, or almost enough to become a perfectly round sphere. Good luck finding out which number it's actually landed on. Is it 2, or 57? You won't know. You won't goddamn know because the die 13:15:05 rolled off your table. The D100 almost has to rolled in a box, or the padded cell that you should be kept in if you insist on using this. I think any die that needs an enclosure isn't a die, it is a pet for the insane." 13:15:09 oerjan, fair enough. 13:15:18 zzo38, perhaps, but that can still land in two ways 13:15:33 zzo38, but actually I want the d1 to just have a single side 13:15:35 zzo38, d1 is a Möbius band. 13:15:43 not physically possible of course 13:15:47 Or a Klein bottle. 13:15:52 indeed 13:16:01 A Mobius strip does have two sides. It is just that both sides are the same side. 13:16:07 Both of which are physically possible. 13:16:14 zzo38, no it doesn't... 13:16:30 Phantom_Hoover, a klein bottle isn't physically possible in 3D 13:16:40 you need 4D for it 13:16:46 It is if it intersects. 13:16:55 Phantom_Hoover: Why it doesn't...? 13:16:57 Phantom_Hoover, you can't make it in 3D 13:17:11 Cool, 4 2-letter words beginning with i... 13:17:29 XD 13:17:30 bbl 13:17:34 In a mobius strip there is one other side from any side, but it is the same side as the first side! 13:17:35 AnMaster, you can't... embed or orient or immerse (one of them) it in 3D. 13:18:15 Ah, and IWC is heading or another cataclysm. 13:18:20 s/or/for/ 13:18:32 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 13:19:06 A mobius strip cannot be silver-plated on one side and gold-plated on the other side (assuming you mean entirely and that these are mutually exclusive), unless you mean locally to one part of the mobius band, it can be. But not for the entirety. 13:19:14 -!- Wamanuz2 has changed nick to Wamanuz. 13:19:38 AnMaster, you can't... embed or orient or immerse (one of them) it in 3D. <-- that is what I said 13:19:43 Do you like to agree or disagree or whatever? And for what reasons? 13:20:06 AnMaster, but you can put one in 3D if it self-intersects. 13:20:40 Phantom_Hoover, yes but that isn't possible to make without access to a fourth dimension 13:21:03 Phantom_Hoover, like you can't make a möbius band without access to the 3rd dimension 13:21:25 I don't think you can immerse a Möbius band in 2D. 13:22:55 Phantom_Hoover, hm 13:22:58 You can fake it, such as if you make a chess variant with a board that acts as a mobius geometry 13:23:08 zzo38, that's not immersion. 13:23:26 Phamtom_Hoover: Yes I know! 13:23:27 It's doing stuff on the surface of an MB. 13:24:04 Hmm, perhaps you can immerse an MB in 2D. 13:24:16 Klein bottles are immersable in 3D, btw. 13:24:19 you can embed the mobius band perfectly well in the _projective_ plane iirc (of which you can make a chessboard) 13:24:25 Actually you can even fake a standard chess game on a 1-dimensional board (and I have done so). 13:24:39 No, wait, the MB is unimmersable in 2D. 13:25:08 See http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSeeeeeeeeeeeeee 13:25:31 zzo38, by using an N^2->N bijection? 13:25:50 EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX! Chess is exactly the same as chess even though it is extremely different from chess. 13:26:11 You can do arbitrary games on an unbounded board in 1D. 13:26:29 when you immerse a 2D surface in the plane, the orientability of the plane itself, forces the surface to also have a consistent orientation, i think. while embedding 2d in 3d this doesn't happen. 13:27:14 which means you also cannot immerse a MB in a sphere or a torus 13:27:37 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:28:04 EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX! Chess has 12 kind of pieces (instead of 6 as in chess), it has unequal armies, it has a deck of cards, win is by capture not checkmate, yet, the game is exactly the same as chess, despite all of these differences!!! 13:28:09 But you obviously can on a KB or the RPP. 13:28:22 I love these acronyms... 13:28:49 (the orientations have to match locally consistently, and the global orientation of the superspace forces global consistency of the immersed space. i think. 13:28:52 ) 13:30:13 Look at the rules for my one-dimensional game and tell if if I did a good job of it, or not. 13:30:52 zzo38, EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX! Chess seems to be missing en passant 13:32:02 AnMaster: No it isn't. Simulating en passant is what the Oranges is for. 13:32:08 Why are you saying EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX? 13:32:14 hm a mook is a castle that can still castle, right? 13:32:16 zzo38, aah 13:32:23 oerjan: Yes 13:32:36 heh that's the first comment 13:33:01 oerjan: That is, the most recent comment. 13:33:13 oh 13:33:33 Only the five most recent comments are displayed unless you select the "List all comments and ratings" link. 13:34:03 zzo38, that EE+X Chess is truly a brilliant idea 13:35:09 AnMaster: Yes it is, and your idea of abbreviating it EE+X is also good idea, I think. 13:35:30 zzo38, that or do it like l10n or i18n 13:35:46 except I couldn't be bothered to count number of letters 13:36:10 I don't really care the number of letters either, though. 13:36:26 E32X 13:36:39 I have written various other chess variants as well on there 13:36:46 $ echo -n EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX | wc -c 13:36:47 34 13:37:45 Why are you saying EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEX? <-- should be obvious if you read more than half of what was actually said on IRC for once 13:38:54 I only missed one comment, then got confused! 13:39:07 My brother also had some ideas, which I then typed out and fixed the rules a bit. One of them is Bland Chess, where there is no diagonal moves (but knight moves are still allowed). 13:39:27 (Diagonal mode of movement of any pieces is not allowed. This means bishops cannot move at all.) 13:39:44 zzo38, heard of that Discworld chess variant ? 13:39:54 with two extra columns 13:39:55 With the assassins? 13:39:59 Phantom_Hoover, exactly that one 13:40:03 Yes, I have. 13:40:14 I think it could be quite playable 13:40:24 I don't know how exactly it is supposed to work but I guessed and wrote an implementation 13:40:31 um 13:40:40 I think I have it in the discworld compendium 13:40:43 * AnMaster looks 13:40:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Games_of_the_Discworld 13:41:40 Phantom_Hoover, right 13:41:46 So can one go to check in a move? 13:41:59 in normal chess? no 13:42:07 in stealth chess: probably not 13:42:08 In Discworld chess. 13:43:00 White moves assassin in right slurk to 7; they can capture up to 6 moves away; it's 5 moves to black's king. 13:44:03 Oh, assassins only go 1 square at a time. 13:44:11 indeed 13:44:48 But still, after 8 moves in the slurks an assassin can capture any piece on the board, can it not? 13:45:40 says 15 on wikipedia 13:46:32 15 moves overall, yes. 13:47:38 But that means that as soon as white has made 8 moves it has mate, doesn't it? 13:48:30 That is why it is necessary to make other guesses about things 13:49:08 Here is an example game, played by the computer program against itself: http://sprunge.us/YEWG 13:49:59 ooh at last schlock mercenary is moving again 13:50:16 it has been very slow going for a while 13:50:49 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:50:57 FireFly, hi there 13:51:20 Hello 13:51:41 I also invented Xorix Shogi, it is a shogi game that any piece that captures another piece has its powers XORed with the piece it is capturing. 13:52:37 And Communist Chess, where every time you capture an opponents piece you must destroy one of your own pieces of the same type (although you can choose which one), and if you promote, you must select an opponent's pawn and change it into the same kind of piece you promoted into. 13:53:21 -!- Madk has joined. 13:53:59 That is why it is necessary to make other guesses about things <-- such as? 13:55:00 AnMaster: See the example game 13:55:44 zzo38, I meant, what are the extra rules. I can't figure that out from the example game 13:55:46 And also Protomorphic-Chess: http://www.chessvariants.org/index/msdisplay.php?itemid=MSprotomorphic-c 13:56:23 AnMaster: I had to modify the rules a bit, for various reasons. Also I don't know what the proper rules are supposed to be exactly, anyways. 13:56:44 zzo38, how did you modify them 13:56:48 that is what I'm asking 13:56:55 Does this help tell you? http://sprunge.us/ELdN 13:57:18 not really. It is some LISP I see. 13:57:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 13:58:07 That is the best help I can give at this time.... 13:58:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:58:50 okay 13:59:49 Const gerbil%=1 13:59:49 Const kitten%=2 13:59:49 Const cat%=3 13:59:54 I HAVE BEGUN 13:59:59 :P 14:00:02 what a strange language 14:00:18 Madk, have you fully defined the AI behaviour of those? 14:00:28 That's almost all I've done so far 14:00:31 just started XD 14:00:33 otherwise I fear it is impossible to do a FOSS implementation 14:00:41 in a really open language 14:00:50 FOSS? Your acronym confuses me 14:01:00 Free/Open Source Software 14:01:15 Madk, I believe freenode (this irc network) uses it in it's motd 14:01:19 which I assume you read 14:01:31 indeed so it does 14:01:42 there is no "FOSS" in the motd 14:01:48 FOSSCON 14:02:08 fossevents 14:02:14 yay for letters? 14:02:23 Madk, ? 14:02:29 (Issue the MOTD command if you need to see it again; still, it doesn't say what FOSS stands for, it just uses it.) 14:02:38 zzo38, exactly 14:02:47 thus I assume people check what it means 14:02:49 madk doesn't know hoe to use irc commands 14:02:56 ah okay 14:03:03 Madk, /motd 14:03:07 check server tab 14:03:12 that doesn't do anything 14:03:13 You are using XCHAT. I do not know how to use XCHAT 14:03:26 Madk, it does in xchat, check server tab 14:03:30 not channel tab 14:03:41 ooooh 14:03:57 anyway it is your responsibility as a user on an IRC network to read and understand the network rules given in motd 14:04:00 upon connecting 14:04:15 * - By connecting to freenode you indicate that you have read 14:04:15 * - and agree to adhere to our policies and procedures as per 14:04:15 * - the website (http://freenode.net). [...] 14:04:30 so not reading motd is a bad idea 14:05:03 That assumes you have a web-browser software installed..... Perhaps if they used plain-text, it would not requires so. 14:05:16 zzo38, everyone had that nowdays though 14:05:29 zzo38, however if you don't why not go complain in #freenode :P 14:05:45 Like in my IRC server, all help files are accessible using HELP command. 14:06:06 I do have web-browser software on this computer, however. 14:06:09 zzo38, this ircd has help too 14:06:27 however /motd and/or /rules are the relevant ones to check for network rules 14:06:28 ._. I'm not an open-source guru. Unless I intend otgers to see and use the source to my programs, I don't open-source them 14:06:39 Yes it does, but not to list FAQs and policies and so on. 14:06:42 Madk, otgers? 14:06:46 others 14:06:47 type 14:06:48 ah 14:06:50 typo 14:07:16 I usually O-S my tools and things, and don't my games. 14:07:26 I see 14:07:39 Personally I truly believe in FOSS. 14:07:57 I open-source all my programs as much as possible, sometimes making it public-domain, or sometimes GNU GPL, sometimes multi license. I do this for various reasons, including: freedom, portability, in case other people has ideas to improve it, and more. 14:08:02 COMMIES!!! 14:08:07 XP 14:08:16 Madk, point is, it would be nice if you documented your esolangs well enough that anyone else could implement it completely from the spec 14:08:22 Even the games I like to do so. 14:08:24 without checking your interpreter 14:08:58 There are BSD-style licenses and stuff, but I don't use them. I just GNU GPL or else just public domain. 14:09:04 anmaster: I basically describe exactly what the interpreter does in the commands section 14:09:12 I don't know what else there is to include 14:09:25 Madk, I seem to remember there was some confusion over exactly how the AIs of cats and such works 14:10:16 Although in one case, I wrote a program which is dual-licensed "GNU GPL version 2 or later version, or Microsoft Reciprocal License". 14:10:21 there is no interpreter for gerbil yet 14:10:23 Madk, I mean, your spec leaves a lot or room for how the AI of cats and such works. 14:10:31 I haven't finished deciding 14:10:35 Madk, right 14:10:45 the AI is going to leave a lot of room for unpredictable behaviour 14:10:48 Madk, as long as you document it enough at some point I'm happy 14:10:55 (That dual-licensed program is useful for Windows only, and might even be useful for Microsoft to include in later versions of Windows, but it might be useful for ReactOS as well) 14:11:05 Once the interpreter is written, I'll describe it fully. 14:11:36 Madk, good. It would be rather inconvenient if two different implementations did differ in small details about that 14:11:52 Yes, I know 14:12:03 What is your opinion on free software licensing? 14:12:17 zzo38: who, me? 14:12:22 zzo38, me? I use GPL3 or BSD 14:12:30 Anyone who wants to answer 14:12:33 I could use LGPL3 too 14:12:36 GNU GPL 14:12:44 but I haven't yet made any projects where I found that fitting 14:12:57 That's what I usually use when I release something 14:13:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:13:12 AnMaster: OK. I generally use GPL3, and public domain, but I don't apply BSD licenses to my software, unless it already is. 14:13:24 zzo38, how comes? 14:13:44 Omygodneilgaimaniswritinganepisodeofdoctorwhoaaaaaa 14:13:54 I could use LGPL3 too, if I write a software for which I find its use that I should use it for. 14:13:59 Phantom_Hoover, oh my indeed 14:14:06 Phantom_Hoover, that should be _most_ interesting 14:14:18 AnMaster: BSD-style licenses is just permissive, that I don't require copyright and just make it public domain. 14:14:21 Phantom_Hoover, I read good omens, haven't read sandman 14:14:44 AnMaster, read 1-3 of Sandman, the universe is conspiring to stop me from reading 4. 14:14:53 zzo38, I like getting some recognition that I wrote it. 14:15:19 AnMaster: I have nothing against *you* using such licenses, it is just that I don't. 14:15:28 I've also read American Gods and Fragile Things. 14:15:30 zzo38, I didn't claim you did 14:15:39 Phantom_Hoover, not read those :/ 14:16:11 bbl 14:16:35 I don't require recognition that I wrote it. Even if it is GNU GPL, I don't really care about that as much. I only care that copyleft is adhered to. 14:16:51 You can see that I wrote it from where you got the software at first, if you want to. 14:18:25 I have licensed the Icosahedral Role Playing Game under CC-BY-SA, but I don't care much about the attribution requirement. I only care about the share-alike requirement. 14:19:21 However, there is no updated version of CC-SA so I used CC-BY-SA instead. 14:28:49 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:31:44 -!- mephju has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:35:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:35:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:44:40 -!- tombom has joined. 15:12:54 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:15:18 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:15:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:21:35 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:23:00 -!- tombom_ has joined. 15:24:51 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:35:33 -!- mephju has joined. 15:38:03 * Phantom_Hoover starts building Oolite 15:38:51 I wonder if it'll crash my X server again... 15:44:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:54:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:54:04 Agggh 15:54:19 My GPU still hangs when it tries to do fancy shaders. 15:57:04 Weird; APT has mit-scheme-doc but no mit-scheme 15:57:11 -!- aliseiphone has joined. 15:57:19 aliseiphone! 15:57:31 Hi 15:57:47 I was told to ask you about how the computable reals might be handled in a proof assistant. 15:57:59 With difficulty. 15:58:17 Protip: computable reals are limited 15:58:24 Phantom_Hoover: Which assistant? 15:58:30 Are you writing one? 15:58:34 No. 15:58:41 I was wondering if it was doable. 15:58:53 Of course. 15:59:06 Proof assistants use type theory. Well. Most of em 15:59:14 The assistant in mind was Agda. 15:59:14 So. Easy. But 15:59:22 Don't use Agda. 15:59:28 Why? 15:59:54 It's powerful but unstable - falsehoods have been proven several times only to be "patched up" - 16:00:03 OK. 16:00:05 and actually writing proofs is very difficult 16:00:08 Which one then? 16:00:13 Coq. 16:00:34 Same basis in dependent type theory? 16:00:50 It's very old and proven (80s), expressive and powerful, and with a very easy proof method 16:00:54 Phantom_Hoover: yup 16:01:16 Indeed Gpedels first incompleteness theorem has been proven in it 16:01:34 by Russell O'Connor http://r6.ca 16:02:26 Phantom_Hoover: My Coq recommendation: Use Emacs with Proof General. Three window mode and electric mode. 16:02:37 Proving is smooth like butter. 16:03:18 Citation for the problems with Agda? 16:03:38 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:04:09 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:04:10 Phantom_Hoover: have none. But note that in agda you must write proof terms manually 16:04:25 Yes. 16:04:26 This is almost impossuble for anything complex 16:04:34 In coq it is interactive 16:04:39 Ah, OK. 16:04:42 And easy. 16:04:53 In which case, can we go back to the CRs? 16:05:00 Sure. 16:05:22 Phantom_Hoover: The obvious defn.: 16:05:31 In pseudocode 16:06:47 CR := sum (f : Q+ -> Q). forall (e1 e2 : Q+). abs (f e1 - f e2) <= e1 + e2 16:07:02 Phantom_Hoover: This is a Cauchy sequence of rationals 16:07:28 "pi 0.01 = 3.14 or more accurate", basically 16:07:51 so a cr is a function like that with a proof of being Cauchy 16:08:12 The proof of Cauchyness being the hard bit, then? 16:08:22 Phantom_Hoover: Quite so. 16:08:41 Phantom_Hoover: You can't even prove 16:08:46 Ye 16:08:54 Yep, got that from oerjan. 16:09:00 x < 0 \/ x = 0 \/ x > 0 16:09:09 for all CR x 16:09:36 since a proof would have to construct a proof of equality 16:09:44 or a disproof 16:09:49 which is impossible 16:11:36 OK. 16:11:47 So what about a subset of the CRs for which proofs exist? 16:12:04 Incidentally, is there a nice set name for the CRs? 16:13:30 Phantom_Hoover: Call CRs "R". 16:13:42 They're THE reals inside the theory. 16:13:54 Phantom_Hoover: Um just because proofs exist 16:14:08 Doesn't mean a single algo can generate all of them 16:14:59 A subset for which we have manipulatable proofs? 16:15:09 you do not understand 16:15:26 (and I cannot explain) 16:16:02 Phantom_Hoover: Russell o'connor has already developed all this in coq btw 16:16:20 I think it's in ccorn; if not, his thesis 16:16:25 Ah, right. 16:17:17 Phantom_Hoover: /my/ pet project is developing continued fractions in Coq; very hard 16:17:41 but i think it would be useful or at least interesting 16:20:11 It might. 16:20:18 Well, it would. 16:22:32 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:22:34 -!- MizardX- has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:22:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:23:43 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:25:42 -!- mephju has quit. 16:26:20 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 16:26:41 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 16:39:08 Hi pikhq. 16:41:12 Yo. 16:47:27 So. Operating system design. 17:00:48 Pu 17:00:51 Oops 17:01:02 pikhq: WHAT U 17:01:06 IF 17:01:13 WHAT IF PROCESSES 17:01:18 Are rationals. 17:01:21 Duuuude. 17:11:30 oY 17:13:25 aliseiphone: I think you're drunk. 17:13:30 Or high. 17:13:32 Or both! 17:16:19 pikhq: Or ENLIGHTENED. 17:16:59 Damn, I should smoke weed and then design aliseOS. The perfect OS for baked idealists. 17:17:07 Or, you know, not. 17:19:38 pikhq: So I'm thinking that objects are basically... 17:20:14 Collections of slots + a bunch of running code contexts (like threads) 17:20:37 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:20:40 And the slots are the whole namespace it can access plus it's own stuff 17:20:45 *its 17:21:10 -!- oklopol has joined. 17:21:17 Hi oklopol. 17:21:47 oklopol: Say, what theoretical monster has your OS morphed into along with yourself? :P 17:29:49 pikhq: Hmm. What if we have ... Dynamic namespaces? 17:30:00 pikhq: Instead of slots bei g defined in memory 17:30:03 *being 17:30:20 pikhq: A process in the object gets name requests 17:30:23 pikhq: Ans 17:30:30 *And returns objects 17:32:18 What if you have... COFFEE. 17:32:26 I think that makes everything better. 17:32:31 Especially MORNING. 17:35:20 pikhq: Why do people think "dark co 17:35:27 medy" means 17:35:38 "comedy where bad things happen" 17:36:31 aliseiphone: Funny, I thought dark comedy involved the comedy itself being *about* various bad things. The more horrid the better. 17:37:31 Comedy with bad things: Bang bang bang! Hmm, you are without a head. [laugh track] 17:37:52 ... Okay, I phrased it poorly. 17:37:59 Dark comedy: Not good enough writer to write example 17:38:21 pikhq: I get what you were trying to say. 17:38:26 Mmkay. 17:46:37 pikhq: [ lookup: (name) => { if name = :happy then {:yes} else {42} } ] 17:46:44 Sketch. Of something. 17:48:17 pikhq: I want some influencii from Haskell too though... 17:49:45 pikhq: aliseOS gets fuzzier by the day. 17:50:17 aliseiphone: STATIC TYPING 17:50:32 ALSO MAKE IT HASKELL BUT AWESOMER 17:50:37 pikhq: Static...object...typing! 17:50:55 These arent so much objects as servers 17:54:42 Counter: [ (n): 0; increment: => ~[ n: n+1 ]; value: => n ] 17:55:03 pikhq: ~[...] is object augmentation. Look ma, no side effects! 17:56:20 pikhq: Private variables (n) are done by having the lookup method check who's asking for the slot. 18:00:35 pikhq: Say I want to install puppy to a partition. 18:00:41 How much disk will it use? 18:00:58 100~200 megs? 18:01:31 OK. 18:02:03 So, 4 gig drive. 3 gigs windows 1 gig puppy? 18:02:43 Sure. 18:03:33 pikhq: Actually about 1.5 for puppy 18:03:42 Should be comfortable, right? 18:03:57 More than comfortable. 18:05:07 pikhq: Now how do I make puppy understand a USB wifi? 18:05:14 I dunno. 18:05:19 Ubuntu groks it I'm pretty sure. 18:16:42 pikhq: Wow. XP is installing slowly. 18:17:01 Yeah, it does that when you don't de-shit it. 18:17:45 pikhq: And use an oooold co 18:17:51 mputer. 18:18:00 It's mostly the shit it retains. 18:18:03 Wish I had a disc of my MiniXP :P 18:18:06 Remove the fecal matter, and all shall be well. 18:18:41 I see. 18:25:10 * pikhq winces... 18:25:17 pikhq: ? 18:25:26 Japanese's pre-WWII orthography. 18:25:32 Wut 18:25:39 *Their syllabary wasn't phonetic* 18:26:12 Well, rather, it was. *In Middle Japanese.* 18:26:54 "Tokyo", for instance, was actually written as "toukyau"... 18:27:05 I think XP has given up on installing. 18:27:39 "En" was written as "Yen"... 18:27:54 ("ye" has *ceased to be a valid syllable in Japanese*.) 18:27:58 In kanji you mean? 18:28:08 aliseiphone: Kana. The syllabary. 18:28:14 Right. 18:28:29 Well, literal-romanisation-of-kana. 18:28:49 Well. Not even fully such. 18:29:13 "toukixyou" was written is "toukiyau" and "enn" was written as "yenn". Thar. 18:29:15 So they used different kana or different romanization? 18:29:24 *romanisations 18:29:38 aliseiphone: They used kana differently. 18:29:44 Non-phonetically. 18:29:45 Right. 18:30:16 And romanisations were all sorts of fucked up before WWII. 18:30:40 Consider for a moment the word "yen". Which is "en" in Japanese... 18:30:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:31:09 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if one could create a language resistant to parsing 18:31:25 Phantom_Hoover: Perl 5. 18:31:38 Badum-tsh 18:31:47 Only parseable by a UTM. 18:31:53 Phantom_Hoover: Not a joke. 18:32:08 Which bit of it? 18:32:11 "Motiiru", to use, was written as "motiwiru" or "motihiru". Urgh. 18:32:14 Perl's syntax depends on the result of arbitrary Perl code. 18:32:23 Oh, indeed. 18:32:29 Perligata and such. 18:32:34 No 18:32:37 Well yes 18:32:43 But also BEGIN 18:33:02 Google perl is unparseable or whatever. The perlmonks article. 18:33:06 Proves it. 18:33:14 "t`os`ixyou" (dojou), a type of fish, was written "t`ot`iyau" (dodiyau)... 18:34:01 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=663393 18:34:13 Perl has always seemed foreign to me. 18:34:26 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 18:34:31 CakeProphet! 18:37:16 * pikhq hates it when an orthography encodes sounds that have ceased to be in the language 18:38:29 pikhq: I should publish the implementation of aliseOS as a Ph.D. thesis XD 18:38:35 aliseiphone: :P 18:38:54 AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHRIGHT 18:39:37 -!- aliseiphone has quit (Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info). 18:39:41 -!- aliseiphone has joined. 18:39:42 They had a completely seperate written language until the 1900s. Because commonly available writing fixed the written language a few hundred years back.] 18:39:46 They had a completely seperate written language until the 1900s. Because commonly available writing fixed the written language a few hundred years back.] 18:39:55 WTF 18:40:03 Amazon suggests the following as my "pay phrase": 18:40:05 "Gregor's Architectural Manuals" 18:40:06 Thank you recent history for making Japanese less of a pain. 18:40:13 Gregor: XD 19:03:44 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 19:04:22 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:05:45 oklopol 19:05:50 Flar duh ghee. 19:05:59 *gbee. 19:06:37 Klaatu barada nikto. 19:13:09 I desperately want to create a language called "can't be parsed". 19:13:20 Trivial to do, actually. 19:14:06 Make the parser depend upon the haltingness of the previously parsed code. 19:15:40 Yay, the pun may live! 19:15:58 pikhq: But the code after inf loop doesn't matter... 19:16:49 aliseiphone: Except that you make it so that the code after an infinite loop can make the infinite loop not happen. 19:17:02 Simplest solution is, of course, to have COMEFROM in the language. 19:17:09 pikhq: Lawl. 19:19:03 Oh, y the way. 19:19:21 Could you implement TwoDucks' time travel with call/cc? 19:19:52 No, but you could probably do it with the time travel monad. 19:19:57 (ContT State) 19:20:27 Why couldn't you/ 19:20:29 No. 19:20:35 s|/|?| 19:20:39 You can do it with IOT. 19:21:02 aliseiphone: What, does it also time travel the IO? 19:21:08 Yes. 19:21:11 Iirc. 19:21:18 Yeah, you'd need IOT for that. 19:21:18 It's super TC... 19:21:22 *iirc 19:21:24 Also, sorry; StateT Cont. 19:21:40 IOT Cont would be nice to have. 19:24:00 I have come to the conclusion that Neil Cicierega is Doctor Who's brother. 19:24:06 IT ALL MAKES SENSE. 19:24:35 It...doesn't. 19:26:27 It makes sense for a given value of "sense". 19:26:28 -!- impomatic has joined. 19:26:48 Also, omygodneilgaimaniswritinganepisodeofdoctorwho 19:26:49 Hi impomatic. 19:26:54 " Trivial to do, actually." <<< indeed, you can pretty much name things any way you want 19:27:16 HI aliseiphone 19:27:57 oklopol: :D 19:28:08 Phantom_Hoover: yesiknowomgthatshallbeawesome 19:28:26 my head hurts 19:29:01 pikhq, yesyesyesyesyes 19:29:15 imustgointosuspendedanimationuntilitsbroadcast 19:29:38 so umm why isn't one marker useful for a finite state automaton? 19:30:08 we have an FSM that can carry a marker around on the input string, detect it when over it, carry it, and drop it elsewhere 19:30:16 Phantom_Hoover: I'll go into the future while holding onto a continuation so I can pass back a continuation. 19:30:23 Mmm, IOT Cont. 19:30:25 one marker isn't useful, can anyway explain why exactly? 19:31:10 pikhq, everyone knows you can't go into the future with a continuation! 19:31:39 Phantom_Hoover: Yes you can. If you went there the long way and used one to go back while holding onto a continuation FROM THE FUUTUUURE 19:31:43 :P 19:32:02 So you need suspended animation in the first place. 19:32:10 Or patience. 19:34:40 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:34:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 19:35:04 pikhq, I have no patience for Neil Gaiman /\ Doctor Who. 19:36:07 No abusing /\ :( 19:37:41 Phantom_Hoover: That's why I'm bringing the continuation back for you. 19:37:53 Cool. 19:37:54 * pikhq passes Phantom_Hoover a continuation. Be sure to retain the current one! 19:38:07 OK, got the continuation. 19:38:27 * Phantom_Hoover call/ccs to get the current one. 19:38:32 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:38:40 Man, continuation-passing style time travel. 19:38:44 Now, how do I apply the Gaiman one? 19:38:55 Call it with yourself as an argument! 19:39:01 Moreover, what's the probability that I'll meet you after time travel? 19:39:08 1! 19:39:16 I'm struggling to find a domain name. I'm after something like tinycode.com 19:39:41 All the decent names are taken, but most are just parked :-( 19:40:17 pikhq, how do I call things in reality? 19:40:58 Phantom_Hoover: ghci; :m +IOT; continuation (fromReality "Phantom_Hoover") 19:41:46 impomatic: mincode.st :P 19:42:16 pikhq, no Scheme continuations? 19:42:46 pikhq, also, where will this continuation take me? 19:42:56 pikhq: continuation isn't a Cont function is it? 19:43:09 I hardly want to end up in pikhq's house. 19:43:10 aliseiphone: ... No. That was a bit erroneous. 19:43:28 Phantom_Hoover: It will take you to a theater I rented for the sole purpose of displaying that episode. 19:43:36 Cool. 19:43:53 I stole a lot of money and then made the money not have been stolen while still possessing the money. 19:43:56 :P 19:43:56 You know... Doctor Who kinda sucks. 19:44:09 aliseiphone, BUT NEIL GAIMAN 19:44:26 It used to be entertaining not-sci fi. Now it's vaguely entertaining *anti*-sci fi. 19:44:29 aliseiphone: ... Okay, UK citizenship hereby revoked. 19:44:43 Under control of a fanboy trying to leave his mark 19:44:46 I've been getting more dissatisfied with it, but in any case NEIL GAIMAN 19:44:55 (who USED to produce excellent episodes) 19:45:12 pikhq: Deny it if you want. It's the truth! 19:45:31 aliseiphone, none of this affects the fact that IT'S NEIL GAIMAN 19:46:25 Can we make everything awesome by connecting it to Gaiman? Let's start with amanda fucking palmer and trace outwards. 19:46:35 aliseiphone: 19:46:41 Read you some Gaiman. 19:46:48 Im kidding ffs 19:47:01 I dislike doctor who now; but this is joking 19:49:01 By the way, have I stated my outrage at the absence of vol. 5 of The Sandman from ANYTHING. 19:49:28 Hey. Gaiman used to be a scientologist. 19:49:37 Seriously? 19:49:41 Therefore Scientology is awesome! 19:49:46 Phantom_Hoover: Yup. 19:49:53 See Wikipedia bio. 19:50:04 Oh, yeah. 19:50:10 Second-generation, though. 19:50:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Gaiman 19:50:28 Phantom_Hoover: So's Beck. 19:50:41 Still a scientologist no matter the generations. 19:51:02 Indeed, but I can understand more if it's because of your parents. 19:53:33 "His father's position as a public relations official of the Church of Scientology" 19:53:40 Precisely. 19:53:41 Dayum. :) 19:53:59 It's not as if he was sane, then became a Scientologist. 19:54:00 Hmm... I should make pages for esolangs I have designed on Esowiki... 19:54:13 He was a Scientologist, then became sane. 19:55:21 I wonder if I even have decent descriptions for first two (apart from reference implementation code). 19:56:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:59:37 dog gammitting 20:03:43 pikhq: Amish! 20:11:33 -!- impomatic has left (?). 20:18:19 aliseiphone, where were you yesterday? 20:19:04 Busy. 20:19:07 Sorry. 20:20:15 You should be! Being on-channel is the stern duty of everyone, no excuses. 20:20:30 * pikhq is on-channel even when sleeping 20:20:41 aliseiphone: Say, why the iPhone while freedom-having? 20:21:28 aliseiphone is free? 20:21:41 Sgeo: Is weekend. 20:22:03 It's SUNDAY? 20:22:06 * Sgeo blinks 20:22:35 pikhq: Long story. Right now fixing the shit laptop. 20:23:23 fizzie: People have good reason to fear for me when I'm not here :P 20:23:45 I'll be out so soon... then it's over. 20:24:25 I guess, it was just the tone. 20:25:12 :) 20:31:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:40:37 Any windowser around? 20:40:53 Should I upgrade to sp3 before disabling product activation? 20:41:13 * Sgeo is a Windowser, but doesn't know the answer 20:41:16 You should totally, totally slipstream SP3. 20:41:23 Wouldn't it depend on how you disable it? 20:41:37 I'd imagine some ways might not block upgrades, and some would 20:41:40 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 20:42:03 Or just listen to pikhq 20:42:26 I'm on SP0. 20:42:42 With the FCKGW key :) 20:42:57 So upgrade to sp3 disable wga disable activation? 20:43:18 sp0 will not work on my comp 20:45:29 Sp0 seems faster than sp3 20:47:32 Is it? 20:48:15 Until you put it on the Internet and get every virus simultaneously. 20:48:39 pikhq: This thing has 64 megs ram 20:48:47 Viruses would run out of memory. 20:49:17 aliseiphone: You'd still have them all. 20:49:22 You'd just be swapping forever. 20:49:42 but this thing is bearable! Sp3 wasn't. 20:50:01 MiniXP SP3. 20:50:12 Also, it *will* cease to be bearable once it's on the Internet. 20:50:28 Not even "once you do something stupid like run the ILOVEYOU email". 20:50:39 *Packets come in and you're fucked.* 20:50:45 It's on the Internet XD 20:50:52 Then you're fucked. 20:51:00 Clean it and install again. 20:51:01 Not yet... 20:51:06 Yes, yet. 20:51:12 No. 20:51:35 pikhq: It has received 3703 packets. 20:51:37 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:51:45 I have loaded maybe 7 pages. 20:51:52 All packets accounted for. 20:51:52 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:51:57 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:52:03 pikhq: And no open ports 20:52:07 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:52:09 Router NAT 20:52:12 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:52:36 Shut up and use your brain. I can't install sp3 without downloading it 20:52:50 Use a different system to download the SP3 EXE. 20:52:53 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:53:03 Can't. And STFU. 20:53:09 I would not trust an unpatched XP system that has ever been on the Internet at all. 20:53:19 -!- augur has joined. 20:53:23 S 20:53:24 T 20:53:24 F 20:53:25 U 20:53:28 Seriously, XP SP0 is the least secure system ever. 20:53:45 Which is why I only connect for the time I load a page. 20:53:55 I am not kidding when I say that *putting it on the Internet* gets it infected. 20:53:58 IT IS BEHIND A NAT 20:54:05 NOBODY CAN ACCESS ANY PORT 20:54:09 *ANY* 20:54:41 *YOU COULD BE INFECTED BY A FUCKING IMAGE ON ONE OF THOSE WEBSITES FOR GODS SAKE*. 20:55:01 Yeah. On google and the xplite site 20:55:53 You are running an arbitrary-native-code-execution-engine on your system and feeding it sites from the Internet. Wipe the fucking drive. 20:56:12 Heh... Reminds me that I once got attacked before routing tables were updated (which happened few seconds after connection was up). 20:56:21 Oh shut up. I'm being very careful. 20:56:26 I have no other option. 20:56:53 You ran unpatched IE from an unpatched XP system. In short, you are fucked. 20:57:17 You are putting blind ideology before the facts. 20:58:05 The facts are: you'd be more secure if you were accessing the web soley via downloading arbitrary COM files and running them in DOS, if only because hardly anyone bothers to attack DOS any more. 20:58:30 pikhq: You know I am going to run a scanner after upgrading. 20:58:49 HACKED SCANNER 20:59:08 aliseiphone: Won't necessarily help. Many viruses, once installed, will patch virus scanners so they don't get detected. 20:59:45 God pikhq is paranoid. :) 20:59:52 I'm bring very careful. 20:59:56 *being 21:00:01 -!- SevenInchBread has joined. 21:00:17 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 21:00:23 You're running the least secure OS with virtual memory. 21:00:28 Deewiant: What's that wga inhibitor? 21:00:54 muBlinder 21:01:26 Thanks 21:02:16 Deewiant: It wants me to register. Jeez 21:02:29 Yeah, to download it 21:02:44 I may've made a bugmenot account for it, can't remember 21:03:06 Deewiant: "About NetHack: between hurworth and neasham. (bulfinch's mythology, by alexandre dumas): anya, get out of spain. one finds all kinds. (...)" 21:03:08 bugm3n0t works 21:03:42 Then I probably did, because I think there wasn't one when I got it 21:04:04 Deewiant: Heh. It doesn't run. 21:04:14 Fails to initialize. 21:04:31 Needs .NET 21:04:43 If you have it, beats me. 21:04:44 Ah 21:04:56 Can't remember which version; it might say on the page. 21:05:07 2 21:10:33 FUCK 21:11:07 Winstaller 4 needs sp2. Sp2 won't install without muinder requires net requires winstaller 21:11:12 Solution? 21:11:48 aliseiphone: Install some more secure browser and use that and forget the SP? 21:12:20 Ilari: But then pikhq will rape me until I smash it with a hammer. 21:14:27 Deewiant: Can you upgrade to sp2 using an xpsp2 disk? 21:14:30 CD 21:14:46 Dunno 21:16:38 CHEKKIT OUT http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF2C 21:16:46 My first compiler, rather than an interpreter 21:17:13 Why does it have an article? 21:17:22 -!- ais523 has joined. 21:17:26 because it's awesome 21:17:33 -_- 21:17:44 it's because I want to only have links on my user page 21:17:51 You wrote like 99% of the wiki by now. 21:17:56 Slow down. 21:17:56 and I have to put that somewhere 21:17:59 XP 21:18:02 If it translates brainfuck to C, you can barely call it a compiler; also. 21:18:11 Want doesn't justify spam. Stop. 21:18:16 ._. 21:18:23 I'm not spamming. 21:18:37 I haven't created a page if it wasn't for something useful 21:19:03 I've implemented all but my newest esolang idea, and I've implemented a handful of previously unimplemented languages 21:19:22 A BF to C compiler takes about 10 lines. There are thousands. 21:19:23 hey all 21:19:25 hey lia 21:19:27 .. aliseiphone 21:19:36 Does it do advanced optimisations? 21:19:41 I saw a link to one on the BF page 21:19:50 it does some 21:19:53 Yes. An external link. 21:19:54 very little, though 21:20:07 See esotope. That should have a page. 21:22:46 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:28:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:37:57 Madk: some people have been complaining about some of your edits to Esolang; I've given you some advice at http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Madk which should hopefully help to avoid problems in the future 21:43:28 as for the first point, I don't recall doing anything like this. 21:43:46 I intentionally try to only link to another page once 21:44:31 ais523: You are the very model of a modern mediator. 21:44:57 Madk: ah, OK; just relaying what people have said, it's great that you're doing that already 21:46:02 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:46:38 fizzie: He's information vegetable, animal and mineral! 21:47:39 Gregor: That's the very model of a singularitarian, sorry. 21:48:44 Also I could add that if you want a link to BF2C, you could just link to "Brainfuck#Implementations" (isn't that the section-link syntax?) with BF2C in the visible link text; anyone reading will probably understand that the link conceptually points to the one implementation named in it. 21:49:06 oerjan! 21:49:29 Phantom_Hoover, 21:50:03 fizzie: yes, that's the correct syntax 21:52:37 Madk, what does BF2C have over other compilers? 21:52:43 Like esotope. 21:53:11 erm... I did not see that there were other compilers. Had I seen any, I would've kept to my business with it 21:53:19 I saw esotope, yes, but no others 21:53:34 There's gigantic tons of compilers. 21:53:52 Madk: see external resources section in http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck 21:53:59 Then thst was judt my mistake :/ 21:54:21 pikhq, did you make that compiler to x86 assembly, by the way? 21:54:21 no, there are a ton of interpreters, of course 21:54:34 "Tokyo", for instance, was actually written as "toukyau"... 21:54:43 but only the one seems to be capable of getting a bf source file into an executable 21:54:45 that's almost the english pronunciation isn't it :D 21:54:49 Phantom_Hoover: I did make one, yeah. 21:54:52 oerjan: No. 21:54:57 Madk, it kind of says in the article that BF was *created* to be compiled. 21:55:02 There is also at least one called "BF2C": http://bf2c.sourceforge.net/ 21:55:05 oerjan: Also, I screwed that up. "Toukiyau". 21:55:09 ._. 21:55:13 hm 21:55:14 My apologies, as I said 21:55:38 isn't awib a compiler? 21:55:47 that one's notable due to being written in BF itself 21:55:47 ais523: Yes. 21:55:59 It generates ELFs. Directly. 21:56:02 It's notable due to the awesome name. 21:56:04 yep 21:56:22 Madk, there's also c2bf. 21:56:31 "Also Written In BrainFuck is also written in brainfuck." 21:56:38 Although it's not perfect. 21:56:39 yes, I get it, I get it. 21:56:52 ("ye" has *ceased to be a valid syllable in Japanese*.) 21:57:02 What? But we're just pontificating on BF stuff now. 21:57:15 And there's a bijection from the nats to BF. 21:57:17 wait, you mean their currency isn't actually pronounced "yen" in japanese? 21:58:01 oerjan: "yen" would be a different syllable to "ye" 21:58:39 ais523: I should've said "mora", not "syllable". 21:58:42 Hmm... Postselection time travel... Requires nonlinear QM... Wouldn't that imply that BQP would equal PSPACE? 21:58:42 ais523: um yen(n) was the example pikhq used of ye. 21:58:47 ah 21:58:51 Japanese is a mora-structured language. 21:58:54 "n" is a mora. 21:59:06 "ye" is no longer a mora. It was a few hundred years ago. 21:59:41 oerjan: Their currency is pronounced "en", yes. Also, "Iwo Jima" is not pronounced that way any more. 22:00:20 The *kana* for wo only exists for the object particle, and is only read *as* "wo" in a few dialects of Japanese. (... And rock music.) 22:01:47 If it's got "wo", "kwa", "ye", "yi", "we", or "wi" in it, the romanisation is horrifically wrong. 22:02:15 -!- poiuy_qwert has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 22:02:54 mhm 22:04:11 And if it's got "di" or "du", it's suspect... 22:04:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:05:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:05:09 (nowadays the voiced "t" in those are read "ji" and "zu", *but* some romanisations will do those as "di" and "du", to disambiguate with the voiced "s", read "ji" and "zu") 22:08:11 Bjorn was deathly afraid of beetles. DEATHLY afraid. 22:08:53 Is it possible to prevent stack overflow when recursive calls come in the middle of a function? 22:08:59 ugh, I'm having an argument (turning into a bit of a flamewar) in another channel as to what proportion Macs are out of all computers in existence, even broken ones 22:09:11 someone's claiming it's less than 0.01%, I'm claiming it's a lot higher, around 1% or even a bit more 22:09:49 Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but you will instead get absurdly large continuations. 22:10:04 Alternately, you will have absurdly large *thunks*. 22:10:20 ais523, that person is patently an idiot. 22:10:21 ais523: Do Apple IIs count? 22:10:33 aliseiphone: I don't know, but I doubt it matters 22:10:40 let's say anything marketed by apple with "Mac" in its name 22:10:43 If so... It's more like 20%. 22:10:45 that is a computer 22:11:03 aliseiphone: it may have been at the time, but more recently produced computers probably massively outnumber Apple IIs 22:11:12 Maybe. 22:11:28 ais523: All computers in existence? 22:11:38 That depends on how you define "computer". 22:11:41 pikhq: agreed 22:11:52 the discussion seems to be assuming "desktop or laptop/notebook computer" 22:12:00 Oh. 22:12:12 Then lets say 10% macs or more. 22:12:28 If servers. God knows. 22:12:33 aliseiphone: Mac market share has historically never been above 10% 22:12:38 so how could it be above 10% now? 22:12:43 ais523, why is this person hysterically anti-Mac? 22:12:53 I'd call it 2%-ish. 22:12:56 Phantom_Hoover: Fanboy.y 22:12:59 Phantom_Hoover: he said he saw thousands of computers working in tech support 22:13:04 You cannot infer that 22:13:11 I suspect he may have been a Windows tech support person, in which case of course he was only called out to Windows shops 22:13:19 from what ais said about him 22:13:38 ais523: Then 7%. 22:13:55 probably, only Microsoft knows 22:13:56 ais523: I'd suspect Mac computers go in less. 22:14:08 they have more accurate PC and Windows share figures than anyone else 22:14:13 What with them being somewhat better hardware and less flakey OS. 22:14:18 perhaps 22:14:46 certainly, I can imagine that there are a lot more low-quality PCs than low-quality Macs 22:14:52 pikhq: But old macs... 22:15:18 * ais523 vaguely wonders what the shortest sequence of letters with no Google hits is 22:15:25 * ais523 guesses 5 or 6 letters 22:15:28 aliseiphone: Still work. 22:15:29 :P 22:15:58 How do i install sp2 when it rejects my key? 22:16:12 ais523, don't forget long pages of quasi-random ASCII 22:16:25 Phantom_Hoover: I'm not 22:16:36 5 or 6 seems to be the right level to make combinations that all those pages miss by chance 22:16:49 (it's what made me reject 4) 22:17:14 Hmm, but Google doesn't accept a lot of printable ASCII 22:19:57 ais523: *Characters*, or letters in ASCII? 22:21:38 ASCII letters 22:21:48 I said "letters" for a reason, but forgot to qualify which language 22:21:50 Curses. 22:28:40 Hmm 22:32:51 ais523: haven't found one yet, there's a particular kind of spam that keeps getting me a single hit on things like tpqxkc 22:33:02 agreed 22:33:08 although, I'm surprised you're actually trying 22:33:29 i first tried with 5 but couldn't get it below a few hundred hits 22:33:53 well i'm only trying with very unpronouncable things containing rare letters, obviously 22:35:24 ah! ntqkxc works 22:36:02 (until google gets to these logs, anyhow >:D) 22:36:08 Now make an esolang called that. 22:36:57 Notify, Talk, Queue, Kill, eXecute, Create. 22:37:04 Based on processes clearly. 22:41:15 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:45:24 Dammit 22:45:36 ? 22:46:56 Stupid XP 22:48:32 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:50:08 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:56:36 -!- Madk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:56:44 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:56:44 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 22:56:44 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:57:32 ais523: see non-hit above in case you didn't notice 22:58:00 -!- Madk has joined. 22:58:26 oerjan: yep, I noticed 23:05:41 -!- Madk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:06:43 -!- Madk has joined. 23:19:28 Haha: "'the ruthlessness of a COBOL compiler forces you to create readable, structured code' [...] You should ALTER your views on this subject.". 23:21:01 There probably isn't esolang with implments segmentation and ALTER like COBOL... 23:21:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: I'm using NO SCRIPT WHATSOEVER - Download it at file:///dev/null). 23:25:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:27:03 !haskell replicate' n x = x : replicate (n-1) x; kol = concat . zipWith replicate' kol $ cycle [1,2]; main = print $ take 100 col 23:27:15 !haskell replicate' n x = x : replicate (n-1) x; kol = concat . zipWith replicate' kol $ cycle [1,2]; main = print $ take 100 kol 23:27:18 Stack space overflow: current size 8388608 bytes. 23:27:27 huh 23:27:39 -!- aliseiphone has quit (Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info). 23:27:47 oh duh 23:27:48 -!- aliseiphone has joined. 23:36:42 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:42:29 -!- MizardX has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:45:17 I'm trying to come up with an esolang idea that is radically different from anything already existing. I'm trying to fugure something out that is as far from a turing machine as possible, but would perhaps still be turing-complete 23:45:37 those esolangs are the best esolangs 23:45:41 The best things I've come up with would be totally unusable for writing a program 23:45:42 although ofc it's quite hard to think up that sort of thing 23:45:55 and if it's TC, it's unlikely to be completley unusable 23:46:32 Start with recursive neural networks. And work from there? :P 23:46:35 the best things I've been able to come up with are along the lines of 1D cellular automata 23:47:10 gregor: that wouldn't be any good, I don't want the program to be unpredictable, just different 23:47:36 I said START from there, not FINISH there, it's up to you to figure out how to make it deterministic (or at least deterministic in certain cases) 23:48:16 ._. 23:51:31 :o 23:51:35 someone pinged me but now they're gone. 23:51:49 -!- SevenInchBread has changed nick to CakeProphet. 23:51:58 That's what they get for pinging me! MUAHAHAHAHAHAH 23:51:59 Phantom_Hoover 23:52:00 SevenInchBread: YOU WERE THEIR ONLY HOPE AND NOW IT'S TOO LATE 23:52:09 FUUUUUUUUUUUUU 23:52:18 oerjan: Gee, we both went in such different directions with that :P 23:52:52 great minds think radically different 23:53:02 (see above) 23:53:29 alas 1d cellular automata aren't new either 23:53:33 oerjan: but I think that great minds think the same! 23:53:52 I didn't say they were good ideas, just my best 23:54:37 -!- aliseiphone has quit (Quit: Get Colloquy for iPhone! http://mobile.colloquy.info). 23:54:46 I'm putting off gerbil because pathfinding is going to be horrific .-. 23:55:51 teach your computer Taoism 23:55:54 and they will know the Way