< 1280361611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I've got a good chunk of the conversation, although from around halfway in. < 1280361768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Does Co-NP = NP? < 1280361782 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/OgDa has some stuff < 1280361789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an unsolved problem, it's believed to be false. < 1280361804 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawl, Madk marked Schrodilang while on his Madkap adventures of finding pages to delete :P < 1280361819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Indeed, and seems somewhat more interesting than P?=NP, at least to me right now < 1280361840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well P=NP would imply NP=co-NP < 1280361856 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280361870 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but everybody knows that P!=NP. The argument there is simple: A lot of very smart people have been trying to prove that P=NP and have gotten nowhere ;) < 1280361873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if NP=co-NP then NP is so called _low_ for itself (you can answer NP questions freely inside an NP computation) < 1280361888 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280361929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then all that oracle hierarchy stuff NP^NP^NP^... collapses < 1280361938 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280361960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like it did for NL when NL = co-NL was proved < 1280361995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NL being? < 1280362005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nondeterministic logarithmic space < 1280362008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280362015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I have just realised that checkShips() doesn't do what I thought it did. < 1280362094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L \subset NL \subset P \subset NP \subset PSPACE is a famous sequence of inequalities. with the exception of L, NL != PSPACE none of those are proved to be different < 1280362101 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I have some ideas about co-NP, but they involve algorithmic information theory, which is somewhere I should probably not be treading. < 1280362209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If we could prove P < Co-NP, we prove P < NP, don't we? < 1280362216 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280362243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P = Co-P and Co- respects inclusion < 1280362435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't stand a icecube's chance in hell of actually proving this, but I might as well give it a go, just to understand more about it. It's enlightening to see a conjecture crash on the rocks sometimes. < 1280362467 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know I don't think an icecube could prove much of anything.. < 1280362474 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except maybe some physics < 1280362485 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we accept a very vague notion of prove < 1280362488 0 :genjix!~sldlssdds@84.13.167.56 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280362495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ... proved itself useful in keeping my drink cool? < 1280362515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that gets both a "ha" and a facepalm. < 1280362605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icecube proves second law of thermodynamics < 1280362643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a tragic heroic manner < 1280362786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Complete guess: SAT with monotonic sentences (no NOT) is in P. Maybe even a greedy algorithm < 1280362811 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, < 1280362814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you set all variables to true, then it has to be true iff there is any satisfying answer at all < 1280362819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1280362840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't know why the bug manifested itself worse given some code and not as bad other code, but it seems to be completely squashed < 1280362858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, monotonic circuit evaluation is P-complete < 1280362888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about monotonic TAUT? < 1280362904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set all variables to false < 1280362906 0 :genjix!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280362946 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then it's just false < 1280362964 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x AND y is not a tautology, but x AND x is < 1280362974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you actually _have_ any variables < 1280362976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1280362984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it most certainly is not :D < 1280362986 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait yeh < 1280363021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constant true is the only monotonic tautology < 1280363048 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1280363061 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was getting there, slowly :) < 1280363087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall a theorem related to the clones of post's lattice: basically satisfiability is in P unless the clone includes the implication function, in which case it's NP-complete < 1280363090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I'm compiling Battleships. If I die, tell someone. < 1280363096 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, its paucity of tautologies means that monotonic logic is superior. < 1280363139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not implication, but non-implication < 1280363166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post's_lattice#Applications < 1280363249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably tautology is co-NP-complete iff it contains the dual of that function < 1280363258 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Post. < 1280363262 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN FACT < 1280363268 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He invented the Turing machine :o < 1280363289 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then went on to found his cold cereal empire < 1280363291 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1280363324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i assume that's an american-only pun < 1280363361 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: probably. http://www.thethriftymama.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/post-raisin.jpg < 1280363406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-implication is A and (not B), so the dual is A or (not B), hm that's just implication reversed < 1280363408 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: HELLO? HELLO? ARE YOU STILL THERE? < 1280363411 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD NOOOOOOO < 1280363416 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He shouldn't have done it < 1280363422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FIRST DAY OF ETERNITY I CAN SEE IT NOW < 1280363447 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some days I love this channel. < 1280363463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, g'night folks :) < 1280363466 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280363467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1280363475 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/8EmX5cpS is my first game. < 1280363504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that all ships are on (1,1) and player 1's first hit takes out all of player 2's ships. Yet player 2 wins. < 1280363517 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: AWESOME < 1280363518 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1280363532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, omygodlet'smicrocosmit < 1280363540 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omygodyes < 1280363544 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be our flagship game! < 1280363555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a famous theorem is that _intuitionistic_ implication has PSPACE-complete satisfiability < 1280363563 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Excuse me, I have to go sodomize myself with a rake first. < 1280363570 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, you need to s/conio.h/termios.h/ and s/getche/getchar/ < 1280363592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, need to sleep. < 1280363759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : maybe every set of boolean functions is either trivial or np-complete < 1280363767 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M WAY BEHIND YOU < 1280363794 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280363797 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280363808 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280363877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280364488 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeof(document.createElement("object")) == "function"; typeof(document.createElement("function")) == "object"; < 1280364909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy. < 1280365260 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280366302 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attention anyone who hasn't yet: Vote in the poll in the /topic. kthx :P < 1280366451 0 :ski!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280366642 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280366671 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280366797 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280366855 0 :ski!~slj@c-e812e055.1149-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1280367469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gameplay now differs between DEBUG and RELEASE < 1280368134 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280368137 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what changelog is this? < 1280368168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... more people should vote for the last option, then we should do it anyways < 1280368252 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it's my project < 1280368265 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a reason for it, though < 1280368279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The change made to Release makes it difficult to repeatedly play the same puzzle < 1280368288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I decided that it made sense to omit it from Debug < 1280368403 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280368412 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes sense < 1280368419 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might provide another means < 1280368431 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION knows a game where -DCHEATS does all sorts of fun stuff
< 1280368467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEBUG partially means cheats at this point < 1280368479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly, actually < 1280368492 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like the ability to edit any puzzle, warp, etc. < 1280368495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and occasional verbose output into chat < 1280371795 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h36.28.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280371930 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280372293 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number < 1280372429 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280373529 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280374573 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280374648 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280374788 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280375082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learns the value of naming conventions the hard way
< 1280375392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION points, mocks
< 1280375395 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280375550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's headache inducing < 1280375601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1064906 < 1280375814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woops < 1280375820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes it a decimal parse
< 1280376209 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280377953 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280379277 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280379355 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280379729 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280380300 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-14-212.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280380322 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280380587 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h35.52.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280380673 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy < 1280380678 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1280380681 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBFOJMHXD < 1280381097 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show simpleacro < 1280381097 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick ['A'..'Z'])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1280381195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xanthine Boards For Only Jocular Machinists Have Xenocided Dogs < 1280381280 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's been too long since I've read Station V3 < 1280381285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an entire new arc < 1280381417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick =<< pick ["AEIOU","BCDFGHIJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1280381420 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEAGWN < 1280381488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell import System.Random; import Control.Monad; main = do {len <- pick [2..10]; putStrLn =<< (replicateM len $ pick =<< pick ["AEIOU","BCDFGHIJKLMNPQRSTVWXZ"])} where pick a = randomRIO (0, length a - 1) >>= return . (a !!) < 1280381490 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UWOEIAU < 1280381675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two arcs < 1280383118 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280383371 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h1.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280383379 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no see... < 1280383385 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vowels don't really contribute to easier acronyms. < 1280383388 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better suited ones < 1280383525 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280383530 0 :augur!~augur@216-164-33-76.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280383533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grmbl < 1280383738 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280383790 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280383805 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280383831 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h1.33.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280384126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1280384404 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280385017 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280385039 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280385580 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280386436 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sftp = simple fart transfer protocol < 1280386438 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurr hurr hurr < 1280386588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah ... that's "humor" < 1280386829 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys just don't know what humor is < 1280386872 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example of good humor: < 1280386893 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you die. I kill you. the last sound you make is the release of your bowels. < 1280386894 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sftp == secure file transfer protocol < 1280388645 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280388812 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280389439 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280389964 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280390399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280390400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280390792 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280391274 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h166.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280391275 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280391291 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h166.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280391383 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280391492 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280391686 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h166.39.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280393303 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280393722 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h78.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280393880 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280394168 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280394927 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280394928 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280395093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you type "lemon" as a target into that battleships game it counts as a hit. < 1280395118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is all moot, since Player 2 must always win. < 1280395609 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280395705 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h174.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280395735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. If you type "lemon" into scanf("%d", &target), it'll leave the whole lemon in the input stream (and not modify target at all); I guess it depends on getche whether it'll remove those characters from the stream later or not. If not, all future scanf's in the loop will do nothing much, since the lemon will still be there. < 1280395872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case target won't get modified unless you put some digits in, so I don't see why it'd necessarily count as a hit. Not that I've looked at the madness very closely. < 1280395924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think that it would bomb the same square as you did previously. < 1280395983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but is that a hit? Anyway, if you start with lemon, target'll be 0. < 1280396004 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assume that the reason for the lemon thing was that the lemon blocks up stdin, meaning that you repeatedly bomb the same square, and he didn't check if you had hit a square before < 1280396017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I had hit a square before < 1280396026 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/./ < 1280396051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay. < 1280396061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, this takes the cake. < 1280396074 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess you can easily keep getting hits if you just bomb the same place over and over again. < 1280396090 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't partition the two boards *at all*, so player 1 can hit their own ships. < 1280396153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, maybe not... < 1280396234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is melting my brain... < 1280396247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're separate; player one's positions are in [shipname]p[idx], player two's (which the hit-test is against) are [shipname]p[idx]two always? Though it seems to only ask and initialize player one's ships. < 1280396282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280396286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it does read for player 2's ships, though their initialisation is questionable. < 1280396321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, okay, in checkShips. < 1280396328 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was there in the middle, I had missed it. < 1280396374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a very easy mistake to make. < 1280396436 0 :atroo!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280396565 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h78.21.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280397480 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280397510 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280397978 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280398103 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280398138 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1280398141 0 :Leonidas!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280398187 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1280398194 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280398295 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280398314 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280398393 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280398399 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280398510 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1280398742 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280399495 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280399563 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: An ideal world is left as an exercise to the reader < 1280399613 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1280399628 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1280399845 0 :Slereah!~jews@ANantes-259-1-2-184.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1280400976 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280401852 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280403022 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280403147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Flash MOCK me? < 1280403176 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, look, here's a clip on the iPlayer. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO LET YOU PRESS THE PLAY BUTTON!" < 1280403295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had some Flash clicking problems lately; the weirdest thing is that clicking seems to work if I right-click the Flash player context menu open, keep the right button down, and then left-click whatever it was I actually wanted to click. < 1280403313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just plain old attack the left button with ferocity, that also sometimes helps. < 1280403373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I think the left-right-workaround more accurately was "open context menu; keep right button pressed; left-click once outside the context menu to dismiss it; left-click the original target; release right mouse button". < 1280403381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes no sense, but sense is not what it makes. < 1280403504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that... < 1280403598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, fizzie. Thizzie. < 1280403637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, it actually did something? I was half-certain it was something unique to my somehow messed-up Flash. < 1280403688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64-bit Ubuntu, Flash from APT. You? < 1280403724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the same. But actually I think my wife's PPC OS X laptop's Flash has had the same thing, albeit not at constantly. < 1280403741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the 64-bit Ubuntu, Flash supposedly from APT here at work has no problems clicking anything. < 1280403749 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.glennbeck.com/app/getfile.php?filename=../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../etc/passwd%00 < 1280403770 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is karmic instead of the lucid I have at home, though. < 1280403798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, Tut. < 1280403901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is a mystery, then. < 1280403997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, left-clicking, that's not such a critical feature; only those hackery sort of power users do that. It's understandable that it might not work completely right everywhere. < 1280404048 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep sarcasm < 1280404202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wishes he'd taken that BBC Micro his friend offered him.
< 1280404221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could break into his house while he's out of the country... < 1280404360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and set fire to it! To, uh.. I'unno. To make him pay for you not taking it earlier? < 1280404373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first "it" referring to the house, of course. < 1280404394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regrettably, I don't know where he lives. < 1280404440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I know which bit of Edinburgh he lives in and that he lives above a Chinese restaurant, which narrows it down a bit. < 1280404447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to just start breaking into houses; you'll hit the right one eventually. < 1280404461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most probably won't have a BBC Micro in them, that'll also help. < 1280404753 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280405042 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Directory transversal? < 1280405063 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.glennbeck.com/app/getfile.php?filename=../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../../var/www/glennbeck/htdocs/bitrix/php_interface/dbconn.php%00 < 1280405119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's such an age-old problem, is nice that people still keep doing it. < 1280405159 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redjel1o < 1280405312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice to know that Glenn Beck can afford competent web staff. < 1280405496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that the BBC nearly made a programme called "syntax era".
< 1280405507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's worthy of oerjan. < 1280406021 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6618.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280406163 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's programme in the sense of "TV", in case that isn't clear. < 1280406896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, except that one doesn't work < 1280406904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Warning: fclose(): supplied argument is not a valid stream resource in /var/www/glennbeck/htdocs/app/getfile.php on line 75
" is all you get < 1280406977 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, worked for me. < 1280406982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280407023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, maybe someone found putfile.php and broke it? ;) < 1280407036 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still works for me < 1280407052 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same. < 1280407067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently Glenn Beck doesn't trust you Swedes. < 1280407069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange < 1280407087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that %00 didn't copy properly < 1280407128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is that glenn beck btw? < 1280407142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weird right-wing commentator. < 1280407155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably doesn't trust the Swedish in any case. < 1280407177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, adding %00 at the end of course solved it < 1280407194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, right wing, I doubt he trusts open source then either? < 1280407204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet he uses mysql and php < 1280407207 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1280407223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yeah, but they aren't by FOREIGNERS. < 1280407237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, mysql used to be developed by a Swedish company iirc < 1280407248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before Sun bought them < 1280407254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and then Oracle bought Sun) < 1280407364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yeah, so it's a triumphant example of American businesses conquering the Swedish ones. < 1280407367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume someone already checked if one of those database passwords work for ssh login as well. I'm not going to do that. Might be going a bit too far. < 1280407504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it seems to be RHEL4 < 1280407530 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1280407535 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has said the same thing as you < 1280407540 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"IT'S GOING TOO FAR" < 1280407547 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BLA BLA BLA" < 1280407581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence, only if trying to hack ssh with it. I don't think just looking at various files readable by the web server is going too far :P < 1280407638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, now we know Glenn Beck's favourite colour of jello. < 1280407671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshd_config seems to be either in some unusual location, not installed, or not readable to the web server. ssh_config however is interesting, unless it is the default RHEL4 one, I don't have any red hat distro handy so can't compare < 1280407697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm /usr/sbin/sshd is definitely there < 1280407745 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/shadow was inaccessible, at which point I gave up. < 1280407768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well you can still get /etc/passwd < 1280407775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives you the accounts < 1280407786 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280407832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the php function trim() do? < 1280407881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Removes whitespace from both ends of a string. < 1280407887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280407908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pity there seems to be no way to get a directory listing < 1280407908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so not necessarily just whitespace; you can give it the character set to remove. < 1280407917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this is called with just a string it seems < 1280407944 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are getting me excited < 1280407947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess he only likes jello on his development box. There is one good thing here at least: He isn't developing directly on the production system < 1280407952 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see something cool happen < 1280407953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, then it's the default set, which is whitespacey. (Apparently -- looked it up -- spaces, tabs, newlines, carriage returns, nul bytes and vertical tabs.) < 1280408032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical tab, my favourite control character < 1280409845 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280409982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does the vertical tab even do? < 1280410096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much. < 1280410239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Technically speaking it should have approximately the same effect on the cursor as enough line feeds to get to next vertical tab stop, cf. horizontal tab and an amount of spaces. < 1280410353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in other words: "A format effector which advances the active position to the same character position on the next pre-determined line." (Whereas newline has the same description sans the word "pre-determined".) < 1280410359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a waste of a code point < 1280410377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this xterm it seems to advance to next line without moving to the beginning of the line, while a linefeed would nowadays. < 1280410392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htkallas@pc112:~$ echo -e 'foo\nbar\vbaz' < 1280410392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1280410392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar < 1280410392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : baz < 1280410487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many of the ASCII control codes are not so very useful nowadays. When did you last use the "negative acknowledge" control code, for example? < 1280410522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's a nice listing in http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/chars/c0.html of them.) < 1280410690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, half the ASCII is useless < 1280410786 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much only used ones are NUL, HT, LF, CR and ESC. < 1280411056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's DC3/DC1 for flow-control purposes, and they've co-opted some for shell job control, like end-of-text (ctrl-c) that is still sort-of related in-theory a-bit. Oh, and end-of-transmission to send an EOF in. < 1280411125 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fortuitous circumstances you can also sometimes use BEL to annoy people.- < 1280411306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^L is used in sources sometimes. < 1280411312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why. < 1280411345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also used in usenet for spoiler-protection. < 1280411379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen even graphical newsreaders handle it properly on that context. < 1280411391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about Google's webterface. < 1280411419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sources I guess the author just wants all functions to start on a separate page. < 1280412055 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280413299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fun < 1280413326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OpenGenera docs uses IP-TCP instead of the (nowdays?) more common TCP/IP in several places. However it does use TCP/IP in a few places as well.. < 1280413588 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280414236 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Befunge#Befunge-93_instruction_list < 1280414269 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an official way to escape double quotes in string mode? what if I want to push one or more double quotes to the stack? < 1280414714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want 'foo"""bar' on the stack, you could do something like: "foo#"1-::"bar" -- double quote character being '#'-1, after all. < 1280414751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're doing Funge-98, you could "foo"'""bar" instead. Some people have done ' in supposedly Befunge-93 interpreters as an extension, too. < 1280416157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff not following either standard is really annoying since it is impossible to know if any program expecting either of the versions will work < 1280416266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 93 doesn't really say what to do with undefined ops, it's reasonably safe to add new ones and still expect 93-compliant programs to work. < 1280416289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't safely use those in intended-to-be-portable code, of course, but that's another thing. < 1280416725 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280416849 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280416902 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6618.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280417239 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1280417846 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280418339 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-81.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280419251 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280419333 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280419443 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280419582 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280419594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Phantom_Hoover notes that the BBC nearly made a programme called "syntax era". < 1280419602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks more like a spelling era to me. < 1280419654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party, oerjan! < 1280419665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fascist! < 1280419670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ADSF < 1280419712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your contorted yoga positions < 1280419721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention i think i solved my first open problem < 1280419727 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooo < 1280419752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+n < 1280419754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was sort of trivial so i sent the prof email so he can point out my error :D < 1280419760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1280419812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if a 2-directional AFA can go outside the string, to north and south, to a blank space, do we still get the regular languages" < 1280419854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my answer is "trivially not" < 1280419855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um does this mean if it cannot, you _do_ get regular ones? < 1280419862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280419865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i proved it yesterday < 1280419872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i *think*. < 1280419889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um north and south? is this some weird 2-dimensional motion? < 1280419899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280419911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original question is about picture languages < 1280419924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"does it help to be able to go outside the pic" < 1280419984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does sound weird that it should make a difference < 1280420005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you go as far from the string as you want, or just one space? < 1280420006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hover on top of the string and you can simulate a two-headed NFA < 1280420021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1280420026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, how? < 1280420045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess what the cells to your bottomright and bottomleft have, check this, and move accordingly < 1280420070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if head on the right goes left, you go bottom-left etc < 1280420080 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to have some bookkeeping for even distances between heads < 1280420120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still don't see this. how do you keep track of two heads simultaneously? < 1280420446 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is funny: "Integer division: Pop a and b, then push b/a, rounded down. If a is zero, ask the user what result they want." < 1280420471 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280420472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280420754 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280420940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the game? < 1280420955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Are you listening to ABBA again? Bad oklopol! < 1280420966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an abba song? :D < 1280420973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly, yes < 1280420978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abba is the perfect band for formal language theorists tho < 1280420988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or theoreticians < 1280420989 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's like the first thing that popped into my head when I read that < 1280420997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because my parents are ABBA fans < 1280420999 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1280421001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for game theorists too. the winner takes it all. < 1280421006 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280422697 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280422798 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most strings are complex in the sense that they cannot be significantly compressed: K(s) is not much smaller than | s | , the length of s in bits" -- wikipedia < 1280422817 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K(s) being the Kolmogorov complexity function < 1280422843 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know: Is this true, and if so, where I can find a reference? < 1280422881 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain it's true, I don't have a citation handy. < 1280422884 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if there is a precise notion of "most" < 1280422985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's a trivial application of the pigeonhole principle < 1280423011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot compress most strings because there aren't enough smaller strings to compress them into < 1280423030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: OK -- I can easily see that for "there exists an uncompressible string" -- I guess it extends to a collection of string < 1280423034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*strings < 1280423063 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know there are 2^n strings of length n, at _most_ half of them can be compressed at all < 1280423070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1280423082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*length <= n < 1280423096 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me fix that < 1280423105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n-1 strings of length < n < 1280423127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2^(n-1)-1 strings of length < n-1 < 1280423138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives about half, maximum, i think < 1280423163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you compress by at least k bits, you can only do about 1/2^k of the strings < 1280423167 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything you are saying makes sense. Actually, I'm sure I've seen it before, now, in another context. < 1280423327 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, define sumK(L) to be the sum of K(s) for every string s in the language L. Then sumK((0|1)^n) = O(2^n)? < 1280423365 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait < 1280423415 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Describing the language in English: L = {all strings of 0's and 1's of any length up to and including n} Then sumK(L) = O(2^n)? < 1280423521 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but it would take me a while to draw it all out < 1280423904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280423921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P******_H*****! < 1280423983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(2^n * log n), perhaps < 1280424109 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. Well, < 1280424119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits head against wall
< 1280424141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need to actually store the strings, not just count them :D) < 1280424177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait duh < 1280424177 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was actually hoping for >= O(2^n), and that works. But now I think I see why it doesn't even matter. < 1280424185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(2^n * n) < 1280424209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, abuse of O() there. I believe it's o() for lower bound? < 1280424216 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-1-189-194.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280424224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's Omega < 1280424266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, i was confusing omega with theta < 1280424271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o() is like O() but stricter, ratio must approach 0 rather than being bounded by a constant < 1280424299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, later < 1280424300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280424302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small theta < 1280424305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280424321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280424329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is funny
< 1280424341 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280424474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What algorithm are we talking about? < 1280424548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Compress all possible strings of length n or less, basically. < 1280424568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, can that even work? < 1280424586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pigeonholing would make it impossible. < 1280424659 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280424696 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Er, I mean "compress them all as far as possible, even if that means 0% compression for some of them, which it does". < 1280424741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means -% compression if anything is compressed at all < 1280424779 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was looking for a lower bound, so I was happy to ignore expansion < 1280424951 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By expansion do you mean making a few strings much larger? < 1280424992 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, somewhat larger, yes. You should never need to make a string much larger. < 1280425030 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you meant expansion by "-% compression". < 1280425036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280425053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would need some kind of definition of "useful" for that. < 1280425062 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280425380 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280425381 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280425396 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280425418 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is all pretty pure theory -- no usefulness express or implied :) < 1280425441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, but then how do you decide which strings to expand or compress? < 1280425468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try compressing them all. Any ones you can't compress, leave be. < 1280425484 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, pigeonholing, though. < 1280425497 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1280425504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to embiggen some of them. < 1280425531 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By a constant amount, only, which could be ignored even if I wasn't looking for a lower bound. < 1280425548 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what your concern is < 1280425552 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-216-37.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280425574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, are you trying for the biggest average compression? < 1280425690 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I have a set of all possible strings of length n or less. I want to compress them all and stick them on a disk (say), and I want to know the order of how much space that'll take. According to oerjan, it's omega(2^n * n). I'm happy just knowing it's omega(2^n). < 1280425723 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not happy, exactly, but yeah. < 1280425802 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280425993 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a rabbit hole, because "set of all possible strings of length <= n" is sort of a theoretical worst case. Hey, actually, if you knew the set contains all possible strings, you could compress the whole thing very well -- just write a program to generate them! < 1280426337 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280426355 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1280426401 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-153-53.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280426461 0 :atroo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1280426520 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280426528 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280426654 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-200-151.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280426707 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has a strange desire to write a processor emulator
< 1280426745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get those sometimes... < 1280426975 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was weirdly directed at the 6502... < 1280426997 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.devtopics.com/category/languages-obscure/ < 1280427003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently Haskell is "obscure". < 1280427003 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's realistic, though, since I have no idea how a 6502 works. < 1280427017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, they deserve what's coming to them < 1280427076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think by "obscure" he means "script kiddies haven't heard of them". < 1280427084 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1280427153 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280427187 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 is not a particularly complex processor, so it's a reasonable project. < 1280427242 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Cyclone programming language is a safe dialect of C." < 1280427250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can that possibly work? < 1280427262 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er -- I used to know < 1280427270 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: How about instead of writing a processor emulator, you make an existing processor-emulator (JSMIPS) better? :P < 1280427293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, does that stand for JS? < 1280427301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/JS/JavaScript/ < 1280427308 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, JS does stand for JS :P < 1280427321 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even stands for JavaScript < 1280427332 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It works by adding semantics to C to allow for static and runtime memory safety. < 1280427349 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the wikipedia page gives an overview. Pointer arith is restricted, importantly. < 1280427356 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most obviously, it adds multiple types of pointers < 1280427448 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet it would be really difficult to write an interpreter with a garbage collector in Cyclone :P < 1280427470 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-201-217.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280427490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, I have JS trauma. < 1280427495 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyclone appears to provide GC itself < 1280427533 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Ahhhhh well that makes sense then, I guess the real question should have been how it could be safe without GC, but I guess the answer is it has GC :P < 1280427550 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But JS is lurrrrrrvely! < 1280427568 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmh? It could be safe without GC < 1280427573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, I believe I mentioned the cause of the trauma yesterday. < 1280427594 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: JSMIPS probably doesn't work on IE5 :P < 1280427625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, I, being sane, used Safari or Firefox. < 1280427672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more being asked to write the same program about 5 times. And then test it thoroughly. < 1280427721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The point was to check that an integer was within certain bounds, and sometimes whether you were in jail. < 1280427725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes, that'd require static checking of all allocations. < 1280427748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I pointed out that if you were in jail you'd be unlikely to answer honestly, no-one listened. < 1280427772 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It makes no claims of being *statically* safe < 1280427801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yes; hence the GC. < 1280427805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280427828 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I give up then < 1280427851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION really needs to stop bitching about that
< 1280428087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does GC make it safe while lack of GC would make it not safe? < 1280428168 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I pass a pointer into a complex maze of functions, one of which frees it. Now I use that pointer. < 1280428188 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does GC make that safe? < 1280428203 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't free it. If I have references to it, it won't screw up. < 1280428214 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Cyclone has a free(). < 1280428219 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also does region analysis. < 1280428221 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does? Well that's just stupid. < 1280428348 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess how I see it is, it's not GC that makes that safe, it's lack-of-dangerous-free. Whether you reclaim the memory or not is moot. (Useful in practice, sure, but moot for safety, because you will *always* be able to run out of memory at some point.) < 1280428379 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280428621 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1280428759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, moreover, I don't actually know what MIPS is. < 1280428877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice, clean, simple RISC. < 1280428893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many SGI boxes run on MIPSy things. < 1280428907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also many other things do.) < 1280428929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there no better language to do this than JS? < 1280428944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly (maybe even probably), but then it wouldn't run in your browser. < 1280428957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having Vim in a browser is something I wholeheartedly support. < 1280429000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there are existing MIPS emulators in non-JavaScripty scenarios, so it wouldn't have such novelty value. < 1280429050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(At least SPIM, which was used on our MIPS assembly programming course, but I'd hope there's something more serious too.) < 1280429108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of clock speeds does it get? < 1280429145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, qemu does MIPS too. < 1280429165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, the architecture or the emulators? < 1280429190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think SPIM is very fast at all, it's designed for educational purposes. < 1280429359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, JSMIPS/ < 1280429396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh. Well, I'll let Gregor-W answer that one; I haven't really played with it. < 1280429397 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280429443 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, what clock speed does JSMIPS run at, on modern hardware? < 1280429486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might depend on what you're doing, anyway. < 1280429729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, nice 6502 trivia bit in Wikipedia: "The 6502 was introduced at $25 at the Wescon show in September 1975. The company had an off-floor suite with a big jar full of the chips. However with this early run they only had a handful of working ones. To give the appearance of larger quantities, the bottom of the jar was stuffed with defective chips, and only the ones at the top of the jar worked.[3] At the same show the 6800 and Intel 8080 were selling for $179.[4 < 1280429730 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] At first many people thought the new chip's price was a hoax or a mistake, but while the show was still ongoing both Motorola and Intel had dropped their chips to $79.[5] These price reductions legitimized the 6502, which started selling by the hundreds.[3]" < 1280429996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Baah, where's oerjan? < 1280430073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's busy being Norwegian. < 1280430090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nerve. < 1280430132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The norwe. < 1280430200 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280430263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that does it! I am definitely buying "Conquering Norway for Dummies". < 1280430319 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280430339 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280430603 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Better than "Conquering Russia". < 1280430639 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, CNfD has the approval of the King of Sweden. < 1280430901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it does. < 1280430901 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280431032 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280431378 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the JSMIPS actually reads ELF compiled for some MIPS unit and runs them in a browser? < 1280431445 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280431537 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, premusably. < 1280431581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it *quite* does; there are some (very small) GCC patches you need to apply before you have a cross-compiler that can produce JSMIPS binaries. < 1280431635 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine, quite good hardware hacker btw, said 'WTFIDONTEVENWTFWTF' when he saw our wiki and Greg's creations < 1280431692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's still an ELF system, there was just a tiny bit of trickery. < 1280431726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the binutils patches seem to mostly just add mips*-*-jsmips* into the mips*-*-elf* line of the config script. < 1280431730 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280431744 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sick < 1280431778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION coughs on nooga
< 1280432058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: copypaste the following on the channel w/o quotes please ":d:D:D:D:Dd:Ddddd:-D:DDDDD" < 1280432067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably not right away < 1280432091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see you smile < 1280432106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ":d" a smile? < 1280432113 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I thought it was something that would make EgoBot freak out < 1280432142 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks as if you surprised me during a tooth-brush experience. < 1280432147 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My client certainly thinks :D is a smile, it translated it into a little yellow head smiling its face off < 1280432180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d is a smileY < 1280432194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, Gregor is very good at cross-compilers. < 1280432442 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw. i'm implementing modified SADOL as an OS for plain 8088 computer that we've build from spare ICs and some wires < 1280432480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can talk via xmodem with the internet... it's getting more and more interesting < 1280432629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has just noticed that Eminem seems to have an ego to rival Wolfram's.
< 1280432886 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A New Kind of Hip-Hop < 1280433149 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yo yo check out my homie wolfram calculating the mic, while i'm stealing your bike" < 1280433184 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, massive < 1280433515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mic? < 1280433546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would one calculate a microphone? < 1280433631 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1280433643 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wolfra is calculating < 1280433648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it could be Turing complete. < 1280433655 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought that's more our territory. < 1280433691 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280433704 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I don't have a canonical "clock speed" < 1280433723 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fast enough to run vim on Chrome at full-speed and pretty OK on Firefox. < 1280433754 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it doesn't have every instruction take the same amount of time, it's not that accurate an emulator (it's just an ISA emulator) < 1280433782 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some instructions are slow for really stupid reasons, e.g. addition is slower than bitwise math because I don't have integers in JavaScript. < 1280433820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so... You *implemented* integer arithmetic. Wows. < 1280433865 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/jsmips/hg/index.cgi/file/e87fc75afcb6/nomath.js <-- in the best-named file EVER. < 1280433924 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, so that's why it's slow, presumably. < 1280433943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're doing tonnes of JS for multiplication. < 1280433980 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-1-189-194.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280434012 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while i'm making the world Turing complete, my CAs are boxing the beat yo < 1280434022 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepare for your bitter defeat < 1280434024 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1280434031 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suck at freestyle < 1280434050 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as much as I would. < 1280434381 0 :coppro!~coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280434433 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suck at English < 1280434439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, how often are the nomath functions used? < 1280434613 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280435240 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280435341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a bad idea to have an emulator that emulates the processor to the pin level? < 1280435592 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: For some applications you'd want that, I think < 1280435601 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so too. < 1280435624 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided that it's the closest thing I'm going to get to a home-made computer, given my laziness. < 1280435854 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280436186 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280436202 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making own computer is suprisingly easy < 1280436222 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read proc's datasheet, assemble and enjoy < 1280436255 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it < 1280436261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires getting up! < 1280436280 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It requires stripping wire < 1280436296 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19txZDTkbBw < 1280436300 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even i've done it < 1280436302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you like etching PCBs or doing something else creative < 1280436376 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also needs a soldering iron, which I haven't got. < 1280436385 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does not < 1280436388 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch the vid < 1280436422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop discombobulating my arguments! < 1280436668 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :{ < 1280436823 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look at them! < 1280436835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have no combobles! < 1280436922 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Everywhere, they're the fundamental math primitives. < 1280436950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, surely that accounts for a lot of slowdown? < 1280437029 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yup < 1280437060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is there a feasible way to get rid of it? < 1280437078 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1280437092 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sucks. < 1280437120 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a MIPSIJ machine < 1280437155 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It handles all integer math, you need it for the whole thing. < 1280437210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the built-in integer maths? < 1280437217 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Define a MIPSIJ machine whose instructions are like MIPS but which supports arithmetic identical to what JS natively supports. Then tweak the MIPS compiler backend to produce MIPSIJ. < 1280437245 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does gcc still support 16 bit archs ? < 1280437263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS doesn't have any built-in integer maths, is probably the problem. All the numbers are double-precision floats. < 1280437285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1280437333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why does that stop you from using the built-in stuff for integer operations? < 1280437352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A 32*32 bit multiply doesn't fit in a double, it needs to be faked, I assume. < 1280437369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for addition and such, you'll have to wrap it around manually. < 1280437478 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's overflows that are the issue. < 1280437479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for GCC, I don't think at least the stock one supports any 16-bit archs. < 1280437505 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAX_INT+1 should wrap. < 1280437584 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280437645 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I wonder how often C programs rely on that. You could turn it into a processor trap < 1280437655 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever MIPS has for that sort of thing < 1280437687 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I wonder if VIM relies on that < 1280437695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd still need to test for it every time, though. < 1280437720 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A test would be faster than this mul32... thing < 1280437724 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: EVERYTHING relies on that < 1280437741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subtraction relies on it, I guess. < 1280437763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or adding negative numbers, anyway. < 1280437783 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280437795 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, just because C specifies the bits appear in a certain way does not mean every C program relies on it. < 1280437808 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And yet, they do. < 1280437812 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Believe me :P < 1280437814 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They really, really do. < 1280437820 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, OK. C programs without subtraction might not. < 1280437833 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After having munged that nomath.js a billion times and broken it in horrible ways and fixed it and broken it again, oy. < 1280437835 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They so, so do. < 1280437852 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1280437863 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was just wondering. < 1280437903 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The multiplication sounds worse, though. If you just blindly multiply two 32-bit numbers, I guess the default double maths will cheerfully perform the multiplication but lose precision in the result, since the significand has just 52 bits. < 1280437919 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup < 1280437954 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK -- communicate with a Java app running on the same page, have it do the integer arith for you. < 1280437955 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Har. < 1280437973 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRILLIANT < 1280437987 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, you guys, it's really not that slow :P < 1280437996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a SOAP web service that you can post XML "multiplication requests" to? < 1280438003 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The overhead of talking to a Java applet is probably much higher ;) < 1280438025 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, compilers avoid MUL like the plague. It's not super-common. More common than DIV of course, but not super-common. < 1280438034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The array construction in mul32 would make me nervous, but of course I know very little about the cleverness of JavaScript implementations. < 1280438035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is ridiculous: I was just emailed by ESR < 1280438052 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's already ridiculous, but go on. < 1280438069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: wtf I just realized mul32 is *recursive*. Good job! < 1280438071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, he was looking to ask me to cooperate on the next INTERCAL release < 1280438075 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Yup! < 1280438085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Knuth had asked him for one < 1280438086 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The scariest part is it works. < 1280438099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: is that gcc's mul32, or someone else's? < 1280438115 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget where I got it from, I wrote that years ago :P < 1280438124 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thank you for bringing today's "scary quotient" up to quota. < 1280438138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I'm pretty scared too < 1280438140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: it certainly is better than my "// TODO: implement DMULS.L" that I had in a JavaScript SuperH-3 core. < 1280438149 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's of vital importance that you do this >: ) < 1280438151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to expect a huge collaboration or a trademark infringement lawsuit < 1280438164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghee < 1280438183 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, feel free to go to http://codu.org/jsmips/system.html and see that JSMIPS does in fact work. < 1280438184 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need C compiler that targets 8086/88 < 1280438192 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: OpenWatcom < 1280438201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open... ah, I'm so slow. < 1280438202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used the rexec protocol < 1280438204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess why < 1280438218 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because you were out of rakes? < 1280438235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, joke detected but not identified < 1280438244 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unidentifiable :P < 1280438254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cd bin                                                                         < 1280438254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls                                                                             < 1280438254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of memory < 1280438294 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: What terrible browser is this? :P < 1280438303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: FF 3.6.6 < 1280438311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things about the system I used it against: nmap could only identify these services: ftp, smtp. However other open ports include: 59, 79, 80, 111, 259, 261, 262, 512, 514, 517 < 1280438312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it downloads and loads everything in ./bin if you "ls" it? < 1280438318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, this seems like it'll take a moment. < 1280438322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./bin/vim loaded. \ \ E418: Illegal value: %s < 1280438326 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, that's bad. < 1280438334 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Haven't fixed it yet. < 1280438338 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just run vim :P < 1280438340 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop listing stuff. < 1280438343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, any guess about this system? < 1280438349 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope! < 1280438351 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, OK, it's working now < 1280438353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, OpenGenera! < 1280438367 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim is missing a few syscalls, but runs *shrugs* < 1280438384 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... ow. < 1280438386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, I think both OpenGenera and nmap went spare from trying to nmap it. < 1280438387 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280438390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsmips vim? < 1280438397 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yuh < 1280438402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the record, my FF 3.6.7 was capable of listing bin (and running vim), though a bit slowly. < 1280438405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it! < 1280438407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, you need to make jsOpenGenera < 1280438420 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280438434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I'm sorry. I'm a FF 3.6.8 now < 1280438445 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280438457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -e '\0Lisp-Machine\0\0Help Commands\0' | netcat 10.0.0.2 514 < 1280438459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works < 1280438468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you are not logged in on the lisp machine at the same time < 1280438488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are, it returns an error stating "This machine is in use by " < 1280438510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp-Machine there is my user name < 1280438549 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280438571 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NO U < 1280438573 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280438579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, XD < 1280438583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, then go work on microcosm < 1280438588 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280438594 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NO U < 1280438602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ESR has called upon you to help him make an INTERCAL release for Knuth? < 1280438612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, YES YOU < 1280438613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could easily become awesome. < 1280438625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did he ask you to come to his volcano base? < 1280438628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that statement, while correct, is too ridiculous for me to verify without bursting out into laughter < 1280438629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, wait what? Where did ais523 state that? < 1280438637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: earlier when you weren't paying attention < 1280438648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh when I was nmaping opengenera then I guess < 1280438660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal release for knuth? < 1280438667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it differ from normal releases? < 1280438673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm all confused < 1280438674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea; probably it wouldn't < 1280438679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In addition to OpenWatcom, I think I did run across bcc -- http://dir.filewatcher.com/d/NetBSD/1.5/i386/bcc-95.3.12.tgz.83488.html -- earlier; it's very small and limited and early ("K&R1 syntax"), but I guess you can still call it a C compiler, and it targets 8086. < 1280438686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Or maybe like this: < 1280438694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write gcc backend for MMIX < 1280438699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It'd be just like any other INTERCAL release, except with better typography. < 1280438700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that to compile ick < 1280438708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've used bcc, it was one of the build dependencies of virtualbox < 1280438713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GCC already *has* a MMIX backend, I think. < 1280438719 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCWEBAL < 1280438725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, or that < 1280438733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, INTERCAL's main manual has moved from nroff to Texinfo < 1280438739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is being TeX-typeset nowadays, indirectly < 1280438740 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280438742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literate programming in intercal would be kind of weird-awesome < 1280438756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess the world is more awesome than I thought < 1280438765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually relatively easy in CLC-INTERCAL < 1280438770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO ABSTAIN FROM COMMENTS < 1280438774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the 4.5.0 manual has a chapter on MMIX, http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.5.0/gcc/MMIX-Options.html < 1280438777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then write anything you like, so long as it doesn't look like code < 1280438795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a funnily named "-mknuthdiv" flag. < 1280438796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the please ratio? < 1280438809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1280438810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, you only need 1/5 < 1280438821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as each comment would count as one statement, you'd have plenty of actual commands to put pleases on < 1280438826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are you willing to give quotes? < 1280438842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1280438856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: as in, quotations, or as in hypothetical bills for work I haven't agreed to do yet? < 1280438868 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quotations from ESR's mission for you? < 1280438882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your mission, should you choose to accept it, ..." < 1280438882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, there's not much to say yet < 1280438887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe at some point < 1280438903 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has an amazing revelation
< 1280438910 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valinor is Australia! < 1280439000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does he actually say why Knuth wants him to do this? < 1280439011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, basically no info yet < 1280439021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're asking a load of questions I don't know the answer to, that's AnMaster's job < 1280439056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you'd better not be barging on his "turf". < 1280439060 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I'll stick to easy ones. < 1280439074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Wolfram's 3-state Turing machine universal? < 1280439119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if my sed understands UTF-8 or whatever the heck this is < 1280439233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My 'sed' at least seems to treat input as bytes: "echo ä | sed -e 's/\xc3/Q/' | iconv -f iso-8859-1" => "HAH¤"; so it picked the 0xc3 first-byte of ä without interpreting it as a single unit. < 1280439249 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying: find . -type f -exec sed -i 's/ú/ú/g' {} \; < 1280439267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess we'll see, huh < 1280439270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like it should work even when interpreting as bytes. < 1280439329 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume modern INTERCALs support Unicode? < 1280439342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: depends on what you mean by "support" < 1280439346 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some idiomatically INTERCAL-esque fashion? < 1280439347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are capable of reading Unicode, yes < 1280439360 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-241-237.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280439375 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUDES < 1280439382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UTF-8 is even pleasant enough that you can't have two >= U+0080 UTF-8-encoded characters next to each other so that some substring that contains parts of both would be valid UTF-8 too, so a "s/ú/.../" shouldn't match anything else than real characters. < 1280439391 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've temporarily taken over a project that manages uranium storage and transport < 1280439395 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and! it's written in php < 1280439411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose this means we're all going to die. < 1280439422 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, the "scary quotient" just kind of skyrocketed < 1280439423 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that fantabulous or what ^_^ < 1280439442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... radiation: it's what's for dinner? < 1280439470 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280439470 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are < 1280439474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: let's just say, some characters have encoding-specific meanings < 1280439479 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND < 1280439488 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vala natively uses UTF-8 < 1280439495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what various operators do depend on the encoding which they were written with in the source code < 1280439499 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one of the biggest companies in europe < 1280439501 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that shit < 1280439508 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sounds about right! < 1280439513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is refreshing, after Python's implenentation dependent "Do we do it correctly, or not?" < 1280439571 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99, why does PHP → we're all going to die? < 1280439591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, you're asking a load of questions I don't know the answer to, that's AnMaster's job <-- Does that mean I have a "license to ask such questions" kind of thingy? < 1280439596 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE TURQUOISE. < 1280439603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it annoys me whoever does it < 1280439611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least from you it's expected < 1280439633 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there anyone that could help me with my little BitBlt problem? < 1280439636 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've worked at large corporations which won't even use PHP to sell books. < 1280439645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo> Flonk, ask on #esoteric? < 1280439645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P < 1280439656 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, Wikipedia trusts it... < 1280439666 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-46-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280439683 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: To perpetrate questionable information -- sure, it's good at that < 1280439690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ha. < 1280439691 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, perpetrate? < 1280439702 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, what is your esoteric question? < 1280439704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote (in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P < 1280439716 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200|(in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P < 1280439740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I thought "perpetrate" was the usual verb for creating an INTERCAL compiler < 1280439756 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nothing :) But If someone in here could help me with C++, thatd be awesome < 1280439784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is an esolang of unprecidented complexity, so it does seem appropriate here < 1280439792 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has your compiler attacked you with a fork or other piece of cutlery < 1280439793 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280439811 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1280439842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In full seriousness, there is a ##C++ < 1280439847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What seems to be the problem? < 1280439852 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, so my question: < 1280439857 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, STOP RUINING THINGS < 1280439876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We won't mind if you ask here < 1280439883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, this channel's off topic half the time < 1280439897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and enough of us fail to know C++ less than average that we might be able to help < 1280439937 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case WM_PAINT: < 1280439938 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hdc = BeginPaint(hWnd, &ps); < 1280439940 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bitDC = CreateCompatibleDC(hdc); < 1280439942 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : paint_frac(bitDC); < 1280439943 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BitBlt(hdc, 0, 0, width, height, bitDC, 0, 0, SRCCOPY); < 1280439945 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DeleteDC(bitDC); < 1280439947 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EndPaint(hWnd, &ps); < 1280439948 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is, it doesnt do anything. < 1280439949 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paint_frac basically just draws lots of lines, and works fine if i use it on the window dc (hdc) < 1280439951 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have my problems with memory DC's, so it seems < 1280439965 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAGH GUIs < 1280439977 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry. < 1280439997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sobs
< 1280440030 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is GUI-disabled after having learned VB5 as a first language
< 1280440041 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, that's what I claim < 1280440042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Before an application can use a memory device context for drawing operations, it must select a bitmap of the correct width and height into the device context. This may be done by using CreateCompatibleBitmap to specify the height, width, and color organization required in the function call. " < 1280440059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is that Win32 API? < 1280440065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use that a lot < 1280440071 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it is < 1280440074 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, VB5? < 1280440082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is unmistakably it. < 1280440085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never again bemoan my first use of Pascal. < 1280440091 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: alright! thanks :) < 1280440095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm not convinced that bitDC is the right sort of DC at all < 1280440109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, I'd expect there to be memory backing it somewhere < 1280440114 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just aa variable name < 1280440125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but normally I used MemoryDCs for that sort of thing < 1280440129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: Note that I am running about 90% on intuition here. I googled CreateCompatibleDC, skimmed the first page that came up, picked a paragraph, and copied it here. < 1280440133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, let me try to find some code I wrote to remind me about how it works < 1280440147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, BitBlt returns a bool; check it first. If it's zero, do GetLastError once. < 1280440173 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well, if it doesnt work I'll notice it :P < 1280440189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it's useful to know whether the computer thought it worked < 1280440193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of whether it actually worked < 1280440235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it seems I never /did/ make my DCs by hand, I always used a third-party library < 1280440242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't really help, as my memory of how this works is all wrong < 1280440247 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but thats basically the whole program < 1280440258 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay :) thanks anyway < 1280440308 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if the computer thought it didn't work, it's usually useful to know why it thinks so. < 1280440342 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why so many are GUI-adverse in this channel
< 1280440371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: my guess is that it's because we're used to doing the sort of horrendously complex things that command lines can do but GUIs generally can't < 1280440387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine half this channel could write a nontrivial shell script < 1280440394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only real reason the other have couldn't is that they use Windows < 1280440402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus don't have a decent shell-script interpreter < 1280440423 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps, perhaps... < 1280440452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, yes. < 1280440467 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSDN on CreateCompatibleDC: "When the memory DC is created, its display surface is exactly one monochrome pixel wide and one monochrome pixel high. Before an application can use a memory DC for drawing operations, it must select a bitmap of the correct width and height into the DC. To select a bitmap into a DC, use the CreateCompatibleBitmap function, specifying the height, width, and color organization required." < 1280440484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not enough just to create a DC like that. < 1280440492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DC? < 1280440496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pretty much matches my memory of the general way you do things, even if I don't know any of the function names as I wasn't using them < 1280440501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: basic Windows unit of graphics < 1280440506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense of "one window, one bitmap, etc" < 1280440509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than in the sense of "one pixel" < 1280440515 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280440522 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ha! My intuitive leap is justified by actual research. < 1280440530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Device Context; it has pen attributes and things like that in it. < 1280440534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, used to be < 1280440535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280440551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a GDI32 concept, and that whole toolkit's deprecated nowadays < 1280440560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Microsoft keep changing their mind about how best to do graphics < 1280440664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ^C ^V ^X do some interesting things to the JSMIPS term < 1280440698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I tried recently to do a custom-draw widget with Gtk#'s Gtk and Pango bindings, and text-layouting was hellishly slow; but they included a CairoHelper that let you create a Cairo.Context on a Gdk.Drawable (GDK's built on Cairo nowadays, I think), and drawing directly with it was a couple of magnitudes faster. < 1280440716 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh and hey, cd bin; echo * doesn't run out of memory < 1280440745 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoami makes the whole page flash red. nice < 1280440746 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DC is Drawing Canvas, isn't it? < 1280440751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Device Context < 1280440763 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: no, Device Context < 1280440770 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK! < 1280440774 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just guessing :D < 1280440776 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater99: some sort of canvas you can use for everything < 1280440796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, Microsoft: discussing your graphics toolsets in #esoteric isn't even really offtopic. You should fix that! < 1280440816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: Noticed the bit about CreateCompatibleDC being 1x1 monochrome pixel unless you create a bitmap on it? < 1280440855 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i did, thanks :) googling a bit about that atm < 1280440871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's noisier here than what I'm accustomed to, so felt like checking.) < 1280440967 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The problem is that stat downloads the file. < 1280440984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The official example, also: < 1280440986 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The flash is \a < 1280440987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HDC memDC = CreateCompatibleDC ( hDC ); < 1280440987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HBITMAP memBM = CreateCompatibleBitmap ( hDC, nWidth, nHeight ); < 1280440987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SelectObject ( memDC, memBM ); < 1280440996 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280441006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And then a DeleteObject() on memBM when done.) < 1280441059 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, fizzie: kinda works now, thanks guys :) < 1280441167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're welcome, though I did get some nasty flashbacks to five years back when I actually did work on a win32 app that was a lot of GDI drawing; and 2D DirectDraw, and a third-party sprite thing on top of that, bhrrrrrr. < 1280441261 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280441285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is Windows programming so dominated by third-party libraries? < 1280441366 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280441386 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280441401 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280441450 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to use as little third party code as possible, just doesnt feel like I did it myself otherwise :D < 1280441478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, write your own OS! < 1280441489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have your soul yet! < 1280441490 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thatd be awesome < 1280441498 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, in Brainfuck or something < 1280441507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naw, that wouldn't work. < 1280441514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With PSOX! < 1280441516 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its touring complete < 1280441525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC != OSable. < 1280441532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing complete does not mean can do anything, just can compute anything < 1280441538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what PSOX was meant to help address < 1280441539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't control outputs or anything. < 1280441546 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without PSOX or kwrap. < 1280441551 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1280441567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MS deprecated the 2D DirectDraw completely in favour of Direct3D, the graphics people kept wanting to do translucency tricks but we just had color-key transparency, no alpha channels, the sprite engine wasn't ours to bugfix... gah. < 1280441580 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280441607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should've seen the "sprites with frames that match tinted versions of different parts of the background" workarounds. < 1280441640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just dither? < 1280441646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be even worse? < 1280441654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not pretty enough, I guess. < 1280441657 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Microsoft are kindred spirits? < 1280441667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay I have a working http server under open-genera < 1280441679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out how to make it load anything but the documentation < 1280441690 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Scary....... < 1280441696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not really < 1280441700 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, how did you get a Lisp machine? < 1280441700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, how so? < 1280441705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You lucky bastard. < 1280441708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, note: opengenera < 1280441727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, that is a virtual lisp machine < 1280441732 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohh. < 1280441735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably way faster than a real one would be < 1280441738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do sympathise with Microsoft's programmers to some extent, though; I blame most of Microsoft's misdeeds on a huge corporate hivemind that somehow manages to take over despite the desires of any of the individual employees < 1280441747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think we should write our own Lisp OS, BtW. < 1280441768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there was also a dirty hack on the sprite engine to make it possible to set a "y cut" value to hide the lower half of a sprite starting from specific pixel line; then you could put two sprites on top with different background-translucencies, and alter the y-cut as the sprite moved from bottom part of screen to top. < 1280441770 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They eventually learn to stop having those desires < 1280441788 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clucky is an MS.. oh, you don't know him < 1280441800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't think you could pull off installing it. Mainly because of stuff like "if you don't read every single line of the guides found on the web, and every single message that the system throws at you, you likely will end up having to start over from the beginning" < 1280441807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, that isn't your forte :P < 1280441808 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Except in MSR! < 1280441819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I don't feel that evil is any more highly concentrated in Microsoft than elsewhere in the general population < 1280441829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft Res... gah! Stop pre-empting my sentences, Gregor. < 1280441846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to say that they seem like a froody bunch. < 1280441850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also setting up NIS was a real pain < 1280441860 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: On a phone, from within MSR :P < 1280441860 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think what I said applies to the corporate world in general < 1280441864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Allegiance is from MSR < 1280441868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, probably < 1280441882 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Research units are not as badly effected < 1280441887 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*affected < 1280441892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: On a phone, from within my bathroom, trying to get to a shower; so there! < 1280441916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, I think this is the most unsecure linux system ever (in virtualbox). It is an old unsupported ubuntu version (because opengenera breaks with modern X servers it seems), running without shadow passwords, nis wide open, telnet too. < 1280441933 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sweet < 1280441938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, at least I installed all patches, otherwise it would have had the openssl bug _as well_ < 1280441955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is it worse than the "Damn Vulnerable Linux" distro? < 1280441956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, oh and nfs is there too, but not quite as wide open < 1280441961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link? < 1280441966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a replacement for those desires, they bikeshed about the content of 404 pages and details of their "agile method" procedures < 1280442000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.damnvulnerablelinux.org/ < 1280442011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is it online? < 1280442046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that vm? no < 1280442060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1280442070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not being connected to the Internet does wonders for a system's security < 1280442074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for a start, I can't get virtualbox NAT forwarding to work < 1280442081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it does have access to the internet < 1280442087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah behind multiple firewalls < 1280442129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first my router, then virtualbox's NAT, then "not yet properly setup NAT between eth0 and tun0" in the guest < 1280442166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides I have no clue how to make dns lookup work < 1280442192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm supposed to enter the root servers in one place I know. And also there is this checkbox if root servers do recursive resolving or not < 1280442196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is somewhat strange < 1280442273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting link < 1280442300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, lisp machines allow rsh and rexec as long as no local user is logged in < 1280442313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and there is no such thing as passwords for logging in on a lisp machines < 1280442319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp machine* < 1280442338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you can get a list of valid accounts without logging in < 1280442347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you can even create a new one without logging in < 1280442378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however it does seem to not crash on nmap version scan, just complains loudly < 1280442540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EajT < 1280442547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, ^ < 1280442579 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary < 1280442585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that most 64-bit systems don't use all 64 bits of an address, < 1280442636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? x86-64 uses 48 bits, sign extended < 1280442657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kernel lives in the negative half of the address space, user space in the positive < 1280442664 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280442688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you check /proc/cpuinfo it will probably tell you that your actual cpu is even more limited < 1280442691 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So can those 3 wasted bytes be used for anything? < 1280442692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 40 bits < 1280442693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1280442701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual < 1280442706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my sempron 3300+ < 1280442715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual < 1280442718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my core 2 duo < 1280442734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has 36 bits
< 1280442757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, iirc the cpu checks that addresses are properly sign extended < 1280442775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not < 1280442781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn them! < 1280442791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you fix it up before dereferencing < 1280442837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280442854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, besides, afaik x86-64 specs says it might be extended to the full 64 bits in the future < 1280442860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the 8 bits for type-tagging in that x86-64 Scheme implementation. < 1280442867 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May they rot in something. < 1280442900 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking of using that for the aforementioned Lisp OS. < 1280442944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks how SBCL does things.
< 1280442951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah; the omitted bits are merely for the sake of reducing the work in the CPU, IIRC. < 1280442952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though technically I had the type tag as the least significant byte (since that's independently usable in a x86 reg) and then just shifted by 8 to get raw pointers. < 1280443148 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280443209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! No, wait < 1280443215 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280443230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a good evening to you too < 1280443247 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ais523: remind me to ask you to review my proof that P != NP when I finish writing it < 1280443258 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then to call up the asylum, of course < 1280443267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'll happily review it for you < 1280443278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to find the bug < 1280443285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: Yeah; the omitted bits are merely for the sake of reducing the work in the CPU, IIRC. <-- indeed < 1280443295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty curious as to how you prove the != there, given that diagonalisation doesn't work < 1280443302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can compare it with augur's proof that P=NP to see which of you is wrong < 1280443307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, which 8 bits < 1280443311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280443312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones between 40 and 48? < 1280443320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the ones above 48? < 1280443325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Clearly you assume P=NP and then prove that 1=1 from that. < 1280443353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you can compare it with augur's proof that P=NP to see which of you is wrong <-- a flawed proof I assume? < 1280443355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unforunately, converses are not always correct < 1280443363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, he hasn't shown anyone for fear they'll steal it < 1280443368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -_- < 1280443376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Erm. 1=100 < 1280443383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1280443384 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Thinkotastic. < 1280443401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but maybe 1 *is* equal to 100 < 1280443403 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Actually a valid proof strategy, rather than nonsense. :P < 1280443403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1280443423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to murder whoever wrote SBCL's docs.
< 1280443429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Maybe in the retard axiomatic system. < 1280443434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing that's not what we use. < 1280443438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, touche < 1280443463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The least significant. You know, 0..7. Then you do an arithmetical right-shift of 8 to get a raw pointer, so there's 56-bit pointers with the usual low/high half thing. < 1280443477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I don't know, he hasn't shown anyone for fear they'll steal it < 1280443478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1280443488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found out that this web server CL-HTTP is still developed < 1280443488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok _that_ is surely one of the crank signs :D < 1280443495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lisp machines is still a supported target < 1280443500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... extreme < 1280443512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(paranoia. in fact i read a list of crank signs yesterday, so...) < 1280443522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, link? < 1280443524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how many apply to Feather? < 1280443530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1280443560 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Obviously it's flawed, as I have proved P != NP. No, you can't steal it either!!! < 1280443562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm that only works for user space pointers < 1280443568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, XD < 1280443570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think feather makes any _claims_ yet, does it? so possibly none. < 1280443581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1280443588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be mad to make claims about Feather without being able to verify them myself < 1280443594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think it was on reddit < 1280443603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan! < 1280443612 0 :aliseiphone!~ehirdipho@82.132.139.146 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280443626 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1280443633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, have you been fiddling with the BBC lately? < 1280443635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, http://sprunge.us/EajT < 1280443651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They very nearly made a show called "syntax era", and it smacks of you. < 1280443655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haldo, enohpiesila < 1280443660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1280443660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, and I just found out that web server is still developed, and lisp machines is still a supported target < 1280443662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it works just fine for kernel-space pointers; that was the whole point of "arithmetical right-shift -- with the usual low/high half thing". < 1280443664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should get the new version < 1280443668 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /orgasm < 1280443675 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of cl-http. < 1280443681 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But AWESOME. < 1280443685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it says something about me that I decided what to say, then tabcompleted aliseiphone's nick, then deleted the iphone bit < 1280443685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, rather than using the old one included with opengenera < 1280443687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1280443696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, there are established server frameworks for CL. < 1280443697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, this is the most insecure ubuntu vm ever < 1280443700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm possibly it was just in a comment < 1280443705 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whitehouse archive site used to run on lisp machines. < 1280443713 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know. And? < 1280443731 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1280443733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, non-shadow passwords. Wide open NIS. wide open telnet. Somewhat open nfs < 1280443733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles instead
< 1280443750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, and if I hadn't updated it, it would have had the infamous openssl bug < 1280443762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, outdated version < 1280443762 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://skepticblog.org/2010/07/08/martin-gardners-signs-of-a-crank/ < 1280443764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.10 I think < 1280443779 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shadow passwords r 4 lamrz < 1280443780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the openssl bug doesn't make the computer it's on particularly insecure, though < 1280443781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and there was the usual 63-bit immediate integer thing, leaving 7 bits for other types < 1280443785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes /other/ computers more insecure < 1280443789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i guess you hit the first, at least :D < 1280443805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that? < 1280443825 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...skeptic... < 1280443830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, well, it is due to NIS. opengenera doesn't support NIS with shadow < 1280443832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i suggest you check the logs for the URL i just pasted < 1280443854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION whistles stubbornly
< 1280443857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, can anyone suggest what I should do if my computer smells like a soldering iron? < 1280443863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it! it's not burning, it's desoldering itself < 1280443870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, I should probably turn it off again < 1280443879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll read logs in the morning to see what your advice is < 1280443883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280443887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaaat < 1280443896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some serious issues < 1280443961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's also the crackpot index: http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/crackpot.html < 1280444037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one seems to require more work, though :D < 1280444086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I'm pretty curious as to how you prove the != there, given that diagonalisation doesn't work" <<< if no other way to separate classes is invented at some point, god must seriously hate computer scientists < 1280444111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the finite state world, the only technique is pigeonholing, which is just as boring < 1280444122 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280444167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use reductions and closure properties to make using them less bothersome ofc < 1280444169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if you checked the logs for your nick you'd know i already commented on your syntax era. to be more precise, i said it looked more like a spelling era to me < 1280444180 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRRR < 1280444301 0 :ais523!5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280444314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...skeptic... <-- it might behoove you to note that that link also mentions that some annoying _skeptics_ display many of the crank signs. *whistles innocently* < 1280444332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, different computer, running Windows (ugh), using a webclient... < 1280444364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, computer conflagrated yet? < 1280444372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I find that a few skeptics are little different methodologically from the pseudoscientists they so fervently argue against, and so I believe it.s of great value to everyone to familiarize himself with Gardner's list." < 1280444374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe there's an invariant we could compute for P and NP to check they're different?!? < 1280444395 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280444399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I turned it off, and am using a different one < 1280444406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't smell of burnt silicon, but burning solder < 1280444432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is evidently possessed by Satan. < 1280444435 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well I don't consider myself a "skeptic" and dislike e.g. RationalWiki and the Dawkins forums. < 1280444447 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: So THERE. :P < 1280444447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: any idea of what I should do? it's the same model as yours IIRC < 1280444456 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280444462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU < 1280444462 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: turn up the fan < 1280444471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the reason that won't work is invariants are usually only useful when the isomorphisms are too complex to find, so we just find something that a theoretical isomorphism would keep invariant, here we know exactly what the isomorphism will be, because it's simply the isomorphism of Set) < 1280444475 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280444476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so was that your netbook? < 1280444479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: there's a fan control? < 1280444480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1280444481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that desoldered itself? < 1280444487 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not netbook. < 1280444490 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1280444499 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a high power machine with an 11" screen. < 1280444500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a sort of pseudonetbook < 1280444505 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subnotebook < 1280444509 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the term < 1280444509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think "netbook except it's meant to run windows 7" < 1280444510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280444515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right :P < 1280444528 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Must be a fan control < 1280444531 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dynamic < 1280444533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, doesn't the computer control the fan itself? < 1280444537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Skeptic: I shall beat you over the head with conventional wisdom! CONVENTIONAL!!! < 1280444539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, normally < 1280444545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blow on it! < 1280444546 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try bios; failing that download program to control it < 1280444551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the fan gets stuck and I have to hit it hard in the top-left corner to get it starting again < 1280444555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fan was running fine this time < 1280444563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it turns itself off when it overheats < 1280444564 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there usually - always - is a way to control it. < 1280444579 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably just heat < 1280444593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would the BIOS section do? set the fan to run constantly? < 1280444599 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, my wunnderful sed UTF-8 attempt didn't actually replace the UTF-8 character -- just inserted the replacement after it, apparently. < 1280444604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what do you mean by "just heat" here? < 1280444611 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Most likely. It's a temp solution < 1280444616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sometimes the fan gets stuck and I have to hit it hard in the top-left corner to get it starting again <-- aaaaaaaargh < 1280444620 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smell just due to heated components < 1280444623 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpresseySkeptic: I shall beat you over the head with conventional wisdom! CONVENTIONAL!!! < 1280444635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there needs to be an actual chemical to make the smell < 1280444641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an alise! < 1280444645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I've actually seen that list before, but had just forgotten it < 1280444652 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Why is evolution true? ATTENBOROUGH SAYS IT'S TRUE, THAT'S WHY. < 1280444666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : there usually - always - is a way to control it. <-- yes, but the computer and it's software tend to go out of it's way to protect you. I need to pass a special module parameter to some kernel module to allow manual fan control < 1280444683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: dick lipton over at the Godel's Lost Letter blog uses "Conventional Wisdom" as a slightly derogatory term. < 1280444689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer and it is software? < 1280444695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes? < 1280444695 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as are we < 1280444705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OS in this case < 1280444718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is possible to control it manually at all from under windows < 1280444727 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1280444732 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very common program. < 1280444735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, on my thinkpad I meant < 1280444740 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PowerFan... Or something. < 1280444741 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<AnMaster> there usually - always - is a way to control it. <-- yes, but the computer and it is software tend to go out of it is way to protect you. I need to pass a special module parameter to some kernel module to allow manual fan control < 1280444743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Feather quite possibly hits number 26 < 1280444747 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works with thinkpads < 1280444749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seems to dodge most of the others < 1280444752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1280444767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yes I know what I said < 1280444772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I fail to see the issue with it < 1280444772 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I will pay you to work on Feather. < 1280444775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait you're actually looking at the crackpot index? that's not the first link i gave, anyway. < 1280444792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's with the literal backspaces around AnMaster's nick in those quotes? < 1280444807 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How does 1p a year sound? < 1280444817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think XChat tried to copy color codes when I copied that part < 1280444822 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Xchat formatting goop often copies < 1280444823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes something is strange there. I see the highlight stops right after the first > in my client < 1280444845 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When someone gives me a brief outline of Feather I will be happy. < 1280444851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, XD < 1280444856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: same < 1280444860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1280444863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The color code ends after that > < 1280444872 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha < 1280444872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel blocks colour codes < 1280444877 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can you tell me what cpp yields for this? < 1280444888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: this isn't my computer < 1280444891 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define f(x,y) x < 1280444893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't have a C compiler as a result < 1280444902 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define a foo,bar < 1280444905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, I'll do it. < 1280444906 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(a) < 1280444908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can try to do it in my head, but might not be accurate < 1280444908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whether it has a C compiler or not is irrevant >.> < 1280444914 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that ^ < 1280444917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it just gives you f(a), but I'm not completely sure < 1280444945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get :3:4: error: macro "f" requires 2 arguments, but only 1 given < 1280444945 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1280444948 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just the last line < 1280444950 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1280444954 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok try this < 1280444965 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define f(x,y) x < 1280444983 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define g(x) f(##x##) < 1280444991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: undefined behaviour < 1280444993 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, see you guys. bye! < 1280444995 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1280444996 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define a foo,bar < 1280445000 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g(a) < 1280445004 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1280445007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're trying to token-paste a punctuation mark to an identifier, I know that one < 1280445010 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is? < 1280445013 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280445015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens in practice could be interesting, though < 1280445028 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mm < 1280445034 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, try it. < 1280445041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of error. < 1280445054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like using "error" as an uncountable noun. < 1280445056 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect if this yielded "foo" cpp would be TC. < 1280445063 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall do it more often. < 1280445065 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with self includes) < 1280445076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::4:1: error: pasting "(" and "a" does not give a valid preprocessing token < 1280445077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::4:1: error: pasting "a" and ")" does not give a valid preprocessing token < 1280445077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::4:1: error: macro "f" requires 2 arguments, but only 1 given < 1280445077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1280445092 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use f( x ) instead of f(##x##) < 1280445099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes Vala's distinction between runtime errors and assert things
< 1280445099 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly < 1280445117 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do what Gregor-P said in g < 1280445120 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please :) < 1280445129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1280445131 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY! < 1280445135 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg < 1280445144 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cpp is TC prolly! < 1280445155 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WANT PROOF < 1280445156 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Proof on Friday. Promise. < 1280445158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought self-includes didn't tail recurse. < 1280445165 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't on iPhone < 1280445183 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We assume an implementation unrestrained so. < 1280445195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: Better than "Conquering Russia". < 1280445204 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like we assume interpreters have infinite memory. < 1280445219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conquering Poland > Conquering Norway > Conquering Russia > Conquering Afghanistan < 1280445228 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So we have lists! < 1280445230 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the fact that our interpreters suck is irrelevant. < 1280445243 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can store them, pack them, unpack them. < 1280445257 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__VA_ARGS__ helps too. < 1280445260 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweeet < 1280445261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to go off and do that.
< 1280445262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(everybody and their dog has conquered poland) < 1280445269 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :( < 1280445273 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: MY JOB < 1280445276 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just the lists! < 1280445277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so cpp fails to be TC just because it's allowed to put arbitrary limits on recursion? < 1280445282 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My research. :( < 1280445285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you configure a function to accept varargs in C++? < 1280445295 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aww please don't. < 1280445300 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wannaaaaa < 1280445300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you run away screaming < 1280445306 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep it to myself! < 1280445310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves time in the long run < 1280445324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in C, if you don't have (void) in the arglist, it's vararg < 1280445326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of C++? < 1280445328 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this is why I don't discuss things publicly >_> < 1280445339 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: false < 1280445355 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, lists are pretty trivial after what you just did. < 1280445360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or other argument list) < 1280445370 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Aww c'mon < 1280445382 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I'm definitely not doing it. < 1280445386 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate repeating work but I have NIH >.> < 1280445402 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And i'm almost as immature as Sgeo! < 1280445408 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280445418 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :| < 1280445423 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I can see you < 1280445430 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ $// < 1280445436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many fingers am I holding up? < 1280445457 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. You got tired and put them down. < 1280445465 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1280445481 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /That/ doesn't count. < 1280445487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 in some base < 1280445493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you see what's in my terminal? < 1280445493 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go into psychology, specializing in treating NIH < 1280445505 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NO I LIKE IT < 1280445527 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: list.h < 1280445533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what was false about what I said, alise? < 1280445539 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, no. < 1280445548 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Need ... In c for varargs < 1280445553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1280445556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programmers who say NIH < 1280445568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's the point of (void)? < 1280445584 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hysterical raisins < 1280445588 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did like < 1280445595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LOW BLOW < 1280445599 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void weirdosthing(); < 1280445603 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1280445611 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then weirdosthing(x,34); < 1280445624 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird os thing < 1280445631 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not weirdo's thing < 1280445638 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, () means it takes anything. < 1280445644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm confused. You don't need ... for varargs? Or just in the special case of an OS li... AAAAAA < 1280445647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void) means it takes nothing. < 1280445652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you do need ...? < 1280445661 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: All the time. < 1280445668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, when you're doing it properly. < 1280445674 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280445687 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() means "this thing takes anything". It is hopelessly vague. < 1280445692 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use it SM < 1280445698 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it never. < 1280445708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't (...) also mean the same thing? Except I guess it's clearer to do (...) < 1280445714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sado-masochistically < 1280445715 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything as in unspecified < 1280445721 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: INVALID < 1280445731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280445737 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variadic funxtins must have one normal arg < 1280445742 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you *cannot* have a varargs function that can take 0 args. < 1280445744 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*functions < 1280445752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why? < 1280445755 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It follows from the calling convention. < 1280445763 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Calling conventions. < 1280445768 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguments are pushed onto the stack, so you need to know how many there are. < 1280445777 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No < 1280445789 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That is NOT the only convention < 1280445796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Vala poisoned my mind < 1280445798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, it's probably the most common one. < 1280445804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What Vala does is have the last thing be null < 1280445808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Valinor is Australia! < 1280445813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, OK, I needed to clarify. < 1280445814 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes. But this is standards. < 1280445819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elves went a _bit_ downhill, don't you think? < 1280445824 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We're anally retentive. < 1280445902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, example: printf("%p") will print the address of the calling function with my CC. < 1280445923 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-28-123.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280445928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So printf is printf()? < 1280445936 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not printf(string, ...)? < 1280445952 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: #define foo(...) if (!*#__VA_ARGS__) foo0(); else fooN(__VA_ARGS__) < 1280445961 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER USE THIS. < 1280445964 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1280445980 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int printf(char *, ...); < 1280445986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1280445987 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1280445996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the format tells printf what to do with the rest of the args. < 1280446009 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, that foo hack only works for void returns < 1280446024 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can work for returns with gcc statement expressions. < 1280446030 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER EVER USE IT. < 1280446057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't even remember it < 1280446091 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, just remember: don't use () for variadic functions. < 1280446120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless valac produces code that uses it < 1280446126 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*valac < 1280446146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, that l looked like an I for some reason. There was, in fact, no typo < 1280446191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel giggly < 1280446210 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define hd_(x,...) x / #define hd(x) hd_( x ) / #define tl_(x,...) __VA_ARGS__ / #define tl(x) tl_( x ) / #define foo a,b,c,d / hd(tl(foo)) < 1280446214 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ^ < 1280446222 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: / is newline < 1280446225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1280446231 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it output? < 1280446239 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot type that fast! < 1280446248 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1280446250 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if you did something like #define test #define y 5 < 1280446250 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eas a < 1280446251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280446261 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I was asking for when you did < 1280446271 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it would expand to literally that < 1280446280 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: see iterated cpp < 1280446297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In file included from :1: < 1280446298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list.h:6:1: error: unterminated argument list invoking macro "hd" < 1280446298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hd < 1280446298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# 1 "" 2 < 1280446316 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280446319 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^ what < 1280446329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, I'm "restoring" the last CL-HTTP from a tape image < 1280446329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My fault... < 1280446331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typo. < 1280446342 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, line 6? < 1280446344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, updating Firefox < 1280446349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, argh that I forgot to disable the automatic | more equiv < 1280446350 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, it's b. < 1280446353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280446356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot the last bracket. < 1280446361 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: !!!! < 1280446366 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It works. < 1280446375 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote that on an iPhone. < 1280446379 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn I'm awesome. < 1280446400 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiat < 1280446402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Wait < 1280446407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cpp == C preprocessor? < 1280446410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not C++? < 1280446411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280446416 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I can definitely prove it's TC. Probably. Tomorrow. < 1280446422 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now do cons < 1280446423 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. *cpp < 1280446432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, unnecessary. < 1280446437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, is cons. < 1280446439 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h82.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280446443 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what Phantom_Hoover said < 1280446447 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x,lst < 1280446451 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1280446452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, we have lists in the C preprocessor. < 1280446453 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No wonder I was confused. I was wondering why you were working with C++ for this < 1280446458 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F(x,lst£ < 1280446463 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Won't work < 1280446468 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Okay wait < 1280446476 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this mean that C is turing-complete now? < 1280446478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We" as in humanity. < 1280446482 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the foo define line with < 1280446485 0 :ais523!5cecbb40@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.236.187.64 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280446486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TYPED THINGS. < 1280446500 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define cons(x,y) x,y < 1280446502 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1280446503 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1280446524 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define foo cons(a,cons(b,cons(c,d))) < 1280446526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can the non-cpp C code take advantage of the turing-completeness of the preprocessor to itself be turing-complete? < 1280446530 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Then try. Thx. < 1280446533 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1280446545 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1280446547 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't proved it's tc yet. Stay calm :P < 1280446550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1280446551 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280446554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can't re-invoke the preprocessor while running < 1280446556 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There we go. < 1280446565 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just did lists in cpp < 1280446570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1280446571 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proper ones. < 1280446587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, wait, you need to be careful with the last element. < 1280446592 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the f( x ) trick standards compliant? < 1280446596 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I know. < 1280446633 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, it seems to behave correctly. < 1280446650 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f(x,lst) (from before) < 1280446659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is just doing basic pattern-matching, isn't it? < 1280446661 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it should do < 1280446665 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1280446687 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Im not sure you can do map < 1280446695 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you detect nil? < 1280446706 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. You could do it will self includes. < 1280446708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you could. < 1280446712 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how. < 1280446716 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fair enough. < 1280446717 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with < 1280446727 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1280446739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone: I don't know < 1280446744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spaces are likely irrelevant < 1280446748 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. Make nil 0 < 1280446750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the indirection that does it < 1280446754 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0. < 1280446762 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if lst == 0 < 1280446776 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mm. < 1280446824 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We tryed that, didn't we? < 1280446831 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tryed/tried/ < 1280446837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uck < 1280446864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is that it has to be an arithmetic expression both ways round < 1280446871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you should do is define true and false unlambda-style < 1280446882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, use head and tail as true and false < 1280446890 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(x) works, BtW. < 1280446899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apply them to a cons cell in order to extract their values < 1280446971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, cpp has first-class macros? < 1280447015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1280447025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has first-class tokens, which can be macro names, though < 1280447039 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do recursive expansion, though. < 1280447040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280447066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice quit message < 1280447080 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just webirc < 1280447087 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280447105 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google.com < 1280447138 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saw someone once type a URL into chat so they could click it
< 1280447146 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On eir iPod < 1280447166 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, aah, lumerelapse. < 1280447182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280447203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... Google "lumeniki". < 1280447205 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't I devise an offline adversary that pessimizes the solution to TAUT? < 1280447242 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that guy < 1280447266 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an article! < 1280447287 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why lumerelapse? < 1280447293 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eir? < 1280447298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280447312 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard spivak pronoun ;) < 1280447333 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Thats why I typed it < 1280447338 0 :aliseiphone!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For iPhone < 1280447346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely happies at his Nexus One
< 1280447354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, I know that. I still get involuntary spasms. < 1280447430 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't shudder in fear every time I see the word... you know what, now that I think of it, it may be offensive < 1280447447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, the last CL-HTTP version doesn't work... It complains about not finding the host "wilson.ai.mit.edu" < 1280447457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseiphone, I know where it comes from, considering how to fix it atm < 1280447554 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I shudder in fear of Lumenos. < 1280447635 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280447663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sometimes I think you no longer love me. I know that is just my low self esteem talking but, you know, it would be nice to hear you say it every now and then." < 1280447721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is an ineffectual egomaniac anyone to be afraid of? < 1280447754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because no-one can be *that* weird without being out to hunt me. < 1280447809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still wish I knew where that picture on my article came from. < 1280447858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lumenos talks to himself? < 1280447905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1280447907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume so, < 1280447961 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://podictionary.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/dude.jpg seems to be a source.