< 1280883575 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280883575 0 :clog!nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1280883576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I travel for M:tG tournaments; you never know, I could be in the UK next year < 1280883577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay clog < 1280883581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes or no? < 1280883585 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hungary? :P < 1280883586 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no) < 1280883588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, FAIL < 1280883591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I bet in London or some other big city. < 1280883601 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: most likely, yes < 1280883601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, Sweden. See that is why you should include country. Not just state < 1280883608 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hungry? < 1280883610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're not in Newcastle, you're too far away to visit Hexham without making me worry that rape is a serious possibility. < 1280883612 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1280883617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280883627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, not that I'm in Västerbotten. But I don't want to be more specific than "Sweden" < 1280883635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fair enough < 1280883663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oddly enough, Ontario is far less specific geographically, but significantly more specific in terms of the number of people it might be < 1280883690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario is bigger than Alberta? < 1280883690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, so lower population density < 1280883699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are you meaning the area < 1280883700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*area? < 1280883707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait. < 1280883709 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was comparing to Sweden < 1280883711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was confusing Ottawa and Ontario. < 1280883712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1280883718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm /really/ confused. < 1280883719 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario is larger both in area and population than Alberta < 1280883724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280883733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant Ottawa, which I thought was called Ontario because I am confused. < 1280883738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1280883758 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't ottawa and ontario both in canada? < 1280883765 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1280883766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes they are. < 1280883767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1280883771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottawa is also in Ontario. < 1280883777 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ottawa is the capital of Canada, conveniently located in Ontario < 1280883777 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost as if areas of the world are nested. < 1280883787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but the capital of Ontario is Toronto, isn't it? < 1280883792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, saying Västerbotten to olsner would be far more successful of course < 1280883794 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nested!? woah!! < 1280883796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that is what I read on Wikipedia three seconds ago < 1280883800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, yes it is. < 1280883803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not confusing at all. < 1280883809 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT AT ALL. < 1280883822 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have no idea where that is except it's in sweden, probably up north < 1280883824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1280883826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280883830 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: right < 1280883835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hah, but you live in Sweden < 1280883838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I think Ontario is more populous than Sweden. < 1280883840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and yes up north somewhere. < 1280883845 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's Gatineau < 1280883847 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in Quebec < 1280883848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1280883853 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is also a part of the National Capital Region < 1280883865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I suspect I passed through on the sleeper train < 1280883866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweden: 9,354,462 < 1280883870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is along the coast ther is < 1280883872 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ontario: 13,167,894 < 1280883898 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sweden is small! (what else is new...) < 1280883905 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: oh, really? < 1280883910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, not by European area standards < 1280883911 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's conceptions about the world are being destroyed so badly today < 1280883912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Sweden had more people < 1280883921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by population standards everywhere it is small < 1280883932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: they all moved to finland because finland borders russia, where there are bears < 1280883937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminding them of where they truly want to be, canada < 1280883941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a sense they're all canadian citizens. < 1280883966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, London's population makes up a bit more than 80% of Sweden's population. Yet afaik UK has less area than Sweden < 1280883968 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learned from random old guy (who was also an immigrant from somewhere in africa) that sweden is the third largest country in the EU < 1280883976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sweden is tiny < 1280883978 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(recently) < 1280883983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there are bears in Sweden? < 1280883991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why would they move < 1280884028 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by "small" I did mean in terms of population though, not in area) < 1280884052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, UK is tinier (tinyer?) in area afaik < 1280884113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot speak because i am < 1280884120 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: smaller than France, Germany, and Spain? < 1280884129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, you know what I mean < 1280884135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, easily < 1280884163 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay it's official: I'm an idiot < 1280884176 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really did have libc-2.7.so on my phone.. d'oh < 1280884179 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280884196 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld-2.7.so worked perfectly < 1280884212 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, stupid me, I'm bad at sphere projections < 1280884220 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I dunno, I don't dedicate storage for geography so that knowledge has already been purged < 1280884226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm? < 1280884257 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my geography allocation is 0 too < 1280884269 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was thinking Sweden was significantly smaller due to the fact that spherical projection is hard < 1280884297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1280884300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay... < 1280884336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking my globe, Sweden is definitely longer than any of those countries < 1280884391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suspect the area is smaller than France, but could be wrong < 1280884398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the not easy to compare shapes < 1280884416 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is considering store healthloss per unit time rather than updating HP < 1280884447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which virtual world? < 1280884457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds < 1280884502 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we always end up discussing pointless things (like geography) here? < 1280884511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1280884531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1280884560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Clearly, we should replace the planet with a perfect sphere. < 1280884591 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: clearly, the shape of the planet is irrelevant < 1280884608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have a constant population density. < 1280884617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I < 1280884632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hate to end up living in the sea < 1280884643 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280884659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you propose a constant water density as well? < 1280884670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Water? On the surface? Who needs it? < 1280884673 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: torus pls < 1280884677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean all sea, or perhaps marshes < 1280884691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: is it not esoteric enough? < 1280884708 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or we just amend the law of gravity < 1280884709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, klein bottle please < 1280884717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280884722 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the shape of the planet? well, it's irrelevant! < 1280884757 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you seem to be under the misconception that there exist things too esoteric for this channel < 1280884769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are sadly mistaken < 1280884797 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm rather arguing there are things too mundane for this channel < 1280884848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lies. < 1280884914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are things off topic for this channel that we don't discuss < 1280884919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't mention them though < 1280884924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we would then discuss them < 1280884956 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the things off topic for this channel that we *do* discuss? < 1280884971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are far more of those < 1280885004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I could mention one example, since it would be meta discussion < 1280885015 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280885037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the extent of my knowledge, we have, prior to this point at least, not have any significant discussion about gardening. < 1280885052 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1280885053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just one of many examples < 1280885063 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good because it involves gardening < 1280885070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, NO STOP IT! < 1280885081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any gardening-related esolangs around? < 1280885085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1280885092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, now we have < 1280885100 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something with search-*trees* and *pruning* perhaps? < 1280885101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will refuse to mention any more examples < 1280885122 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in fact prolog is gardening-oriented programming < 1280885126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you now need to pay license fee to oerjan < 1280885157 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as if! he's norwegian you know < 1280885170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh but your horrible puns... < 1280885209 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as always with puns, the horribler the better < 1280885217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1280885274 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to stop spewing nonsense and go to sleep anyway < 1280885276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11:15 "many people prefer the look of AMS's \varnothing ... to that of LaTeX's \emptyset. < 1280885276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11:18 " < 1280885279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people are wrong < 1280885302 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These new earphones are suffering the same issue as all my others ;( < 1280885366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what issue < 1280885376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad sound quality? < 1280885386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only way to fix that is getting headphones < 1280885387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1280885403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falling out of ears? again same fix < 1280885436 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wire breaks or something, and the sound only comes out of one ear unless I hold the wire just right < 1280885469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, be more careful with them then < 1280885473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or get actual headphones < 1280885481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had actual headphones once < 1280885481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they tend to have thicker wire < 1280885485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First ones to go < 1280885490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least good ones < 1280885504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These were noise-cancelling, don't know if that's good < 1280885513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the current ones, the good ones < 1280885524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, could be either < 1280885533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the cord isn't replacable, it's probably too cheap. < 1280885534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280885535 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280885567 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, was just about to spoil inception for y'all, but turns out I deleted that line instead of sending it < 1280885587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed! < 1280885602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ? < 1280885620 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S ABOUT RECURSION < 1280885673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1280885707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280886454 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280886495 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Not necessarily - lambdas would still be useful without closures." < 1280886500 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION :p at alise  < 1280886510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but he's wrong. < 1280888016 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280888104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Lambdas that *don't close*? < 1280888114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's absolutely awful. < 1280888137 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about C's level of support for it. < 1280888288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:53:14 zzo38: do you think everyone should continue to support unsliced bread? < 1280888297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fresh bread is usually unsliced. < 1280888308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; a freshly baked loaf of bread is fucking delicious if done well. < 1280888316 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Delicious < 1280888323 0 :Delicious!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erg, registered nick < 1280888325 0 :Delicious!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1280888334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:30:15 Googling for Icoruma is an adventure! < 1280888341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if zzo38 says it, look on zzo38computer.cjb.net < 1280888359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always good advice. < 1280888381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it says RPG rules, can that apply to computer RPGs? < 1280888410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, no, it' < 1280888417 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for typesetting RPG stuff, apparently < 1280888425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I hate his website design. < 1280888429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/magic.htm This is revolting. < 1280888440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1280888453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the menu I'm just fine with; I mean, it's just about plain text. Nothing fancy, but nothing awful either.) < 1280888716 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280889949 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280890393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight. < 1280890686 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1280890687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280890723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh my, it truly is < 1280890934 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280891912 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280894049 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280894304 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. < 1280894316 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :205| cpressey, oh go to zzo's website. He is NIH AnMaster, really? I was strongly under the impression that zzo was invented here. < 1280894734 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIH? < 1280894793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I want to like Ruby < 1280894824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a far cry from actually liking Ruby < 1280894847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: not invented here < 1280894862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280895057 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers eating his box of pasta for breakfast instead of dinner < 1280895152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you eat'a the pasta that fast'a, it won't last'a < 1280895156 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tonight I'll do both < 1280895271 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bookmark < 1280895317 0 :bookmark!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1280895335 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrr? < 1280895354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, bookmarks in the logs < 1280895517 0 :AndChat|!~AndChat@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280895526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrrrr? < 1280895536 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndChat| is not me. < 1280895542 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can tell < 1280895560 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't cloak your host and they aren't close to the same < 1280895740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if we don't know who it is, there's only one solution. < 1280895743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cocks his gun. < 1280895745 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shoots. < 1280895746 0 :AndChat|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1280895753 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280895773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Collateral damage! D-8 < 1280895781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION might now have a slight inkling of clue < 1280896032 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280898624 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof I am easily amused: I am watching a Futurama where the title caption was "scratch here to reveal prize"... so I did < 1280898660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow. < 1280898789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Flush stderr after writing to it < 1280898812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to Sgeo; write to file descriptor 2 instead. < 1280898813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280898820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1280898916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw buffered IO. < 1280898917 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280898990 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stderr is not buffered by default; it shouldn't need flushing < 1280898998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1280899006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why did it not write? < 1280899014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I redirected stderr to errors.txt < 1280899029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something happened that should have been written to Console.Error (which should be stderr), and... < 1280899057 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, what language is this? < 1280899134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# < 1280899137 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawlz < 1280899150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, just kill yourself now. < 1280899168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is with pikhq < 1280899420 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gregor ashamed to have recognized that? < 1280899421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes he is! < 1280899425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Gregor going to rectify this? < 1280899427 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No he is not. < 1280899449 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=31300809&l=616aba37c8&id=1055580469 Is this the most epic picture ever taken? < 1280899451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is! < 1280899451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1280899464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could pretend that you knew it only because I've been working in C# for the last few months < 1280899486 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew it only because /I've/ been working in C# for the last few months *sobs* < 1280899501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a terrible language < 1280899517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Awesome. < 1280899534 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What, does .NET require a lobotomy? < 1280899566 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.NET is a bad idea that sounds like a good idea, poorly executed in a way that makes it look well-executed :P < 1280899610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say useless idea more than bad < 1280899637 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fair enough. < 1280899666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, if Mono were up-to-snuff, it < 1280899676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be a different story, imo < 1280899912 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280899952 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"errors.txt is so brilliant" < 1280899957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"btw" < 1280900985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently storing built binaries in version control < 1280901000 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1280901077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT BUT... THAT'S _EVIL_ < 1280901083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc) < 1280901104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it evil, and is there a less evil way? < 1280901113 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I currently access the production server via RDP) < 1280901144 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Sgeo -----### < 1280901153 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RDP thing is not my fault < 1280901171 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU SEEM TO BE TAKING ME SERIOUSLY. WOULD YOU LIKE A LOBOTOMY TO FIX THIS? < 1280901201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two lobotomies total, yay! (The first was for .NET) < 1280901231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be dangerous then, could run out of brain to remove < 1280902394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"These vehicles are fast and cost nothing. Unfortunately, in a bold cost-cutting move, FV decided to go with the lowest bidder, Cheaps-R-Us, which tends to operate, well, below the radar. Exposure to these vehicles will hurt your HP, and eventually kill you." < 1280902411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^my attempt at a bit of humor, and the idea of vehicles costing HP < 1280902561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they're dead cheap < 1280902606 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAR-E-LESS < 1280902646 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I want to be as creative as you < 1280902665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although these vehicles aren't quite cars < 1280902680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just thought it needed a better pun < 1280902736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/sjr1I.jpg < 1280902803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so they fly? < 1280902878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you go down a mountain quickly < 1280902947 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting how language conventions change over IRC < 1280902961 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the picture's so dark i cannot tell if they're touching the ground < 1280903062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seems to be out of creativity now < 1280903072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280903078 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, I've found it tends to model speech more closely < 1280903091 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as putting question marks on questioning sentences, even if they aren't true questions < 1280903132 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strive to unify spoken and written English! < 1280903172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IPA is thataway < 1280903515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh; good luck making a standardised language that way. < 1280903522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English has ridiculously divergent accents. < 1280904533 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's tough for me to tell in-world < 1280904540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I _think_ they're hovering a bit < 1280904645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't fly high into the sky with them < 1280907184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't OCaml have typeclasses? < 1280907292 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why doesn't everything have typeclasses? < 1280907294 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better yet, roles? < 1280907309 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me is pretty sure that roles are the ultimate achievement in typing) < 1280907361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like how some things that would be syntax in some languages are.. user-defined, so to speak, in Ruby < 1280907369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think Smalltalk takes that a lot further < 1280907534 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1280907612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. OCaml's ; is [very] roughly analogous to >>= as used in the IO monad, I think < 1280907656 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"; has type unit -> 'b -> 'b" < 1280907665 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also what do you mean by user-defined? < 1280907670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, if that's the case, then that means things are automatically coerced to unit? < 1280907671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280907721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, as in, in Ruby, someiter.foreach do |x| stuff end < 1280907731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if it's foreach or some other method < 1280907743 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's instead of a formal foreach construct, I think < 1280907750 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, usually used instead < 1280907760 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah, ok < 1280907769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a magic function though? < 1280907772 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Smalltalk's if is similar < 1280907783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I'm pretty sure it isn't < 1280907787 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it merely defined on the same terms as user code? < 1280907795 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like a primitive type) < 1280907795 0 :fizzie!~fis@2001:1bc8:102:587b:230:18ff:fea9:6f01 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280907801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, might be built in, but user code could easily do the same thing, I think < 1280907803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1280907828 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk's if I expect is a built-in < 1280907838 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you need a conditional primitive somewhere < 1280907887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But syntactically, it's just method calls, I think < 1280907900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something ifTrue: stuff ifFalse: otherstuff I think. I may be mistaken < 1280907909 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a bit of a while < 1280907996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml types look weird < 1280907997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int list? < 1280908018 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908140 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280908266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARGH MY GOVERNMENT IS SO FSCKING STUPID < 1280908337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, aren't you in Canada or something? Or am I completely and utterly mistaken? < 1280908350 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, I did not mean to imply that Canada is perfect < 1280908398 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, I'm in Canada < 1280908409 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the government is building a prison because of the alarming increase in unreported crime < 1280908461 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1280908480 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... a) How would they know, and b) How is that useful? < 1280908501 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Statcan does surveys to estimate unreported crime rates < 1280908515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one that's available was in '04 < 1280908524 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and showed, I believe, and estimated 3% increase < 1280908531 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not really relevant < 1280908541 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the fact that YOU DON'T PUT UNREPORTED CRIMINALS IN PRISON < 1280908556 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NEED A PRISON BECAUSE UNREPORTED CRIME IS GOING UP < 1280908584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is object-orientedness really worth the nightmare syntax of OCaml? < 1280908688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since you forgot to take into account your special value, you conclude that the mean age of visitors is 7½ years old, and you employ web designers to remove all the long words and use primary colours everywhere." < 1280908705 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280908723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: also, the minister behind this believes that surveys are useless after a year or two < 1280908739 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our government has been doing so much stuff that makes no sense this summer < 1280908799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1280908800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(note the code highlighted in red):" < 1280908863 0 :yiyus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280908864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There IS no code hilighted in red! < 1280908865 0 :yiyus!~124271242@67.202.106.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280908868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ocaml-tutorial.org/null_pointers,_asserts_and_warnings < 1280909058 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280909060 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280910368 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912368 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280912534 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912813 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280912872 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280912878 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280912891 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913187 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280913252 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913764 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1280913996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose there's no statically-typed Smalltalk, is there? < 1280914108 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280914234 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's apparently something called Strongtalk < 1280914816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll just relearn Smalltalk < 1280915166 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1280915454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no way to make a general native app in Smalltalk, is there? I guess the concept doesn't really make sense < 1280915475 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use objective-c < 1280915532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sort of stereotyped that as the Apple language :/ < 1280915541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I should try it eventually, though < 1280915568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But right now, after expunging my mind of the syntax horror that is OCaml, I'm obsessed with Smalltalk < 1280917314 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recommends Go < 1280917316 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-5-244.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280917707 0 :MizardX-!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280917733 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917733 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917733 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1280917736 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1280918008 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280918013 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918017 0 :coppro!~scshunt@nat/uwaterloo/x-mngjfinvuwjqzfjv JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918017 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1280918017 0 :coppro!~scshunt@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918043 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joined, left and joined again within a second... < 1280918049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CONSPIRACY < 1280918062 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connection died < 1280918077 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of a CONSPIRACY! < 1280918128 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or because something happened in between caffeine and my server < 1280918137 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, clog is back. < 1280918299 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fakequit by IRC server to change the host? :-) < 1280918312 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY GOD < 1280918338 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1280918346 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNGOT! < 1280918363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You killed fungot! Bastards! < 1280918441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hmm. < 1280918475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jordan.freenode.net seems to have gone to sleep. < 1280918508 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h2.49.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to download Pharo < 1280918553 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, 1.2 will contain an FFI < 1280918562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Active Worlds bots in Smalltalk! < 1280918746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: jumpin' jumpin' < 1280918749 0 :fizzie!fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders what a ProfStef is < 1280918772 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918778 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280918779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are new to Smalltalk, we recommend you to do the integrated, interactive tutorial. To start it, evaluate the following expression (select the text -> right button -> do it): < 1280918784 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProfStef go < 1280918817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1280918828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UI looks OSX-like < 1280918855 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280918963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was your age, you wrote your programs on a piece of paper and sent them off to London, where they would evaluate it and send it back in a month! < 1280919218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, I don't remember why I abandoned Smalltalk a while ago < 1280919304 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280919612 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lols at ProfStef 17 < 1280919615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lost?" < 1280919620 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, you should not be here!" < 1280919634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 16 is the first time it asks you to write the code to go to the next lesson < 1280919888 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ide do you use < 1280919968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo < 1280919979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's more than an IDE I guess < 1280920372 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why everything about Smalltalk is so colorful < 1280920506 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280921079 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280921212 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280922016 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280922467 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280922787 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1280923924 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280924106 0 :Occultist!~Kabbalist@c80-228.i07-21.onvol.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280924182 0 :Occultist!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hI < 1280924227 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280924642 0 :Occultist!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1280925812 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1280925962 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926026 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926118 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280926132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280926636 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280927068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You typically only need to use or modify this class, or even know how it works, when making fundamental changes to how the Smalltalk system and language works." < 1280927072 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHAHAHHAHA < 1280927683 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E6221.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280928513 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1280930037 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280930114 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280930493 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1280930555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly is muh nicer when you have proper GPRs... < 1280930559 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/muh/much/ < 1280931000 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot! < 1280931000 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: reading fnord about the sound of my head. i think this channel is a proof that ihope's set is universal. at least it makes updating my debian box < 1280931006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1280931006 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1280931010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style i < 1280931011 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1280931012 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style ic < 1280931012 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) < 1280931021 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, how do I mingle? < 1280931021 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the `while' inside one of these contexts. < 1280931434 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style speeches < 1280931434 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: speeches (misc. speeches from Project Gutenberg) < 1280931441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, speak! < 1280931442 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: this trap was constructed on a new principle, of which, with the adventures of a certain bird known to fnord and fnord, john morley, and arthur fnord) were authors of books before they engaged in the slave fnord because slavery is not wrong, nothing is easier than i thought to come across the atlantic in fnord, the fnord < 1280931896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speeches are a fnordy matter. < 1280931933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GCC should have an option called -fnord... < 1280931973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-fno-rd, to disable -frd. < 1280932087 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's start a PETITION! < 1280932309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow the hyphens to be omitted when turning off options? < 1280932336 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's a -frd? < 1280932341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some alignment-related machine-specific options that start with "-malign", those also have nice names. Like the -malign-natural/-malign-power pair on PPC, and -malign-double on x86. < 1280932366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With -malign-double, GCC will be doubly malignant. < 1280932483 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will it try to murder you? < 1280932491 0 :xz!~dimius@167-40-92-178.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280932519 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280932529 0 :xz!~dimius@167-40-92-178.pool.ukrtel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280932536 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz! < 1280932540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. It might also align doubles, long doubles and long longs on a qword boundary. < 1280932550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's in addition to the murdering. < 1280932563 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /msg nickserv set kill quick < 1280932597 0 :xz!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280932611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1280932642 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280932664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is such a setting; at least nickserv set's subhelp doesn't know it. < 1280932673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is xz a vi command? < 1280932696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1280932746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the sense that the first 'x' will delete a character, and the z can start many commands. < 1280932975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how vi-compatible the z.* commands are, in Vim they mostly deal with folding, because (according to the manual) z looks like a folded piece of paper. < 1280933176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in NetHack, xz swaps to the readied weapon, then zaps a wand < 1280933205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nickserv help: "SET NEVEROP prevents others from adding you to channel access lists." That's a curious setting. Maybe useful if you feel permanently irresponsible? < 1280933289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that include the autoban setting on channel access lists? < 1280933303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just like you can set someone to be opped on join, or voiced on join, you can set them to be banned on join) < 1280933327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, some chanserv kickbannery command utilizes that automatically, I think. < 1280933362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, and I don't exactly feel like source-diving. If this were NetHack, one could be certain the devteam would have had thought of it, but... < 1280933400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought of what? < 1280933410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm a reasonably experienced NetHack sourcediver) < 1280933422 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can't be sane, then. < 1280933436 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's source makes me feel nauseous at times. < 1280933437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: meh, NetHack's source is just an intellectual challenge < 1280933449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to DCSS's source, which makes me feel physically ill < 1280933450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the build process is from hell. < 1280933455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DCSS? < 1280933460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dungeon crawl stone soup < 1280933464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of NetHack's major competitors < 1280933507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought of the interaction of NEVEROP and bans-done-via-access-lists. < 1280933518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1280933580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is DCSS so nauseating? < 1280933601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just read it and see things that have no right being in code ever < 1280933613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked the DCSS devs about some of the stuff they'd found in the code < 1280933618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one of them had even found a for-case loop < 1280933649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code is 5 MB, so I won't be able to see it for a couple of minutes. < 1280933666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very large, yes < 1280933671 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack abuses preprocessor macros far too much. < 1280933717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atheme-services-5.2.3, modules/chanserv/flags.c: /* If NEVEROP is set, don't allow adding new entries except sole +b. Adding flags if the current level is +b counts as adding an entry. -- jilles */ < 1280933769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which version freenode uses; the services info-page still speaks of hyperion-related customizations. Still, it's probably worky. < 1280933795 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934424 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280934636 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-5-244.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934652 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280934778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wait, if that's the case, then that means things are automatically coerced to unit? < 1280934808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how Algol does it < 1280934818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, there are two different ways to coerce a procedure to void < 1280934828 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280934838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you're supposed to use the ignore : 'a -> unit function to make it explicit when you're ignoring a result. i'm not sure whether ocaml's ; gives an actual type error or a warning < 1280934841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and five different coercion contexts, and a few extra rules, which determine how to do ambiguous coercions < 1280934898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1280934941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1280934963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do [1,2,3]; [1] < 1280934973 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,1] < 1280934992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a little unexpected < 1280934996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen it discussed whether haskell do should have had the same semantics, or at least a warning < 1280935021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's exactly what the [] monad does < 1280935025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember what >>= does for [] < 1280935038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that it maybe should do a warning for the same reason < 1280935049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's >> technically < 1280935052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but >> is a special case of >>= < 1280935078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskel do a=[1,2,3]; [a] < 1280935083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do a=[1,2,3]; [a,a] < 1280935108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,2,3] < 1280935111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want <- < 1280935114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it opened up a DCC chat with me just to say "parse error in pattern" < 1280935116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're right, I do < 1280935122 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1280935123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell do a<-[1,2,3]; [a,a] < 1280935125 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1,1,2,2,3,3] < 1280935132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's what I expected < 1280935139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just remembered what >>= did for lists < 1280935225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a file:/// url link on a web-forum. "Here, take a look at this picture: file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/HP_Administrator/My%20Documents/My%20Pictures/..." < 1280935244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, who is this idiot? < 1280935274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of the time I said "this big" and indicated with my hand when speaking over the phone. < 1280935275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do [1,2,3]; [1] is basically the same as do _ <- [1,2,3]; [1] < 1280935327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it that link's to c:\ or something similar? < 1280935368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :standard response is along the lines of "I looked at it, but all I could see was porn" < 1280935379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty much in his private windows picture folder < 1280935400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, come to think of it, you could use file:// links for things that were probably on someone's computer < 1280935437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, a Debian user asks you "can you link me to a copy of the GPL?", and you go "file:///usr/share/common-licenses/GPL-2" < 1280935454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they complain, say "well Debian policy doesn't let me use any other copy, it needs to be centralised to save on disk space" < 1280935463 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280935486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wicked < 1280935607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally (>>) is almost equivalent to liftM2 (flip const) < 1280935628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the "almost" is because the latter might be more likely to leak memory) < 1280935664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't flip const equal to ignore? < 1280935672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not quite, wrong type < 1280935682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const () is ignore < 1280935688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280935697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's not monadic of course < 1280935697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const is k, which takes two arguments and returns the first < 1280935703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas flip const takes two arguments and returns the second < 1280935707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so flip const is `ki < 1280935737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just point out that (const id) is shorter than (flip const) < 1280935738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was to "c:/Documents and Settings/HP_Administrator/My Documents/My Pictures/..."; the user name is very telling, too. < 1280935743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so useless in haskell, you'd want liftM (const ()) < 1280935755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ugh, XP filenames < 1280935791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was talking about inside the lift < 1280935803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, the liftM; stupid using "lift" to mean two unrelated things) < 1280936090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:46:36 OCaml types look weird < 1280936090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:46:37 int list? < 1280936095 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280936117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the order is ML legacy < 1280936183 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SO WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU NEED A PRISON BECAUSE UNREPORTED CRIME IS GOING UP < 1280936207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they think people would report more crimes if they thought the criminals might actually get put in jail :D < 1280936285 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1280936498 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Linux syscalls guaranteed to leave registers like rdi and rsi alone on x86-64? < 1280936753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find that explicitly stated in the documentation anywhere, but based on the syscall entry code, it seemed to me like it'd keep just about everything untouched. < 1280936784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdi and rsi are the first two syscall arguments, though, aren't they? < 1280936807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought x86-64 stuck to the x86 convention. < 1280936848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. rax is the syscall, then rbx, rcx, rdx, rdi, rsi, rbp for the args/ < 1280936856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it doesn't. < 1280936870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1280936884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I've tried with that has worked... < 1280936887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rax is the number; the arguments go to rdi, rsi, rdx, r10, r8, r9, in that order. At least if you call via "syscall". < 1280936941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same as a normal x86-64 function call, except rcx/r10; there was something special about rcx there. < 1280936943 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With int 0x80 it uses the method above, doesn't it? < 1280936967 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; I haven't ever used int 0x80 with x86-64, since syscall exists and is supposedly better and faster. < 1280937045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is syscall a normal C function? < 1280937052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? No. It's an opcode. < 1280937063 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280937065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280937073 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280937261 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1280937291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See this bit: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#YXaLobiZowM/trunk/kernel/linux-2.6.34/arch/x86/kernel/entry_64.S&l=424 < 1280937367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It needs a bit digging as to whether it saves the argument registers or not; I seem to recall that it does, but it's a bit messy due to all those macros. < 1280937552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discounting one very size-optimized stub, I haven't usually been relying on getting the syscall args back untouched. < 1280937723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SAVE_ARGS bit might be the one that's responsible for keeping them safe. < 1280937812 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280937821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syscall opcode itself kills rcx by stuffing the return address (next opcode) there. < 1280937857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess r11 too, for saving rflags there. < 1280937895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Away a while now.) < 1280937929 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938104 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in other news, I have built most of the type checker for Eightebed. < 1280938159 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just the type checker, not the pointer validity checker yet.) < 1280938161 0 :tombom_!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938229 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occurs to me that "proving Gregor wrong" is kind of a crappy reason to implement a medium-sized language. And that implementing a medium-sized language is a rather inefficient way to prove Gregor wrong. Still... < 1280938250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way are you trying to prove him wrong? < 1280938269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose I'll also allow the possibility of "her" there, in case both the name and the photos are lies) < 1280938287 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since I'm right :P < 1280938295 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280938332 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I once got a correspondence that started "Dear Miss Richards:". I politely replied that "Gregor" is a male name. I got a reply that I should probably change the picture on my homepage then :P < 1280938352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, the picture on my homepage is chosen randomly, so I have no idea which was so suggestive. < 1280938370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1280938425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280938426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, it's the hats. < 1280938428 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@75-151-73-57-Spokane.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280938437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A CONSPIRACY < 1280938457 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hats??? < 1280938461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just *happened* to leave the second I said something to you! < 1280938472 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hats are UTTERLY MASCULINE. < 1280938486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (short version of Gregor's claim) If a language supports explicit free() it also needs to provide GC if it wants to be "safe" (doesn't let you dereference/execute something you didn't mean to.) < 1280938498 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh, no. That's not my claim at all. < 1280938503 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1280938535 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language which provides a true explicit free() cannot be safe. To be safe a language must either never free (which is bad) or be GC'd. That is my claim. < 1280938550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: what about something along the lines of Splint, but which actually works? < 1280938563 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, jeez. "true"? < 1280938567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that statically checks all mallocs/frees in the program before running it, to ensure no leaks and no dangling pointers? < 1280938607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yay for impossible analysis and no modularity! < 1280938617 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: By "true" I mean that you can get that memory back in a later malloc(). < 1280938623 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: So it actually frees it, and doesn't just ignore you. < 1280938658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Splint was modular enough < 1280938687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possible, because it relied on the programmer to provide it with a proof of memory safety, rather than trying to work it out itself and running up against the halting problem < 1280938689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: OK, that seems close to what I thought you meant, so I may simply have phrased my version badly. Lemme think < 1280938695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was too buggy to succeed as its goals < 1280938723 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: By modular in this case I mean at LEAST separated compilation, if not dynamic loading. But also checking for proper malloc() and free() reduces to the halting problem so making that analysis general enough to write real programs seems enormously challenging at least. < 1280938762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: separated compilation and dynamic linking would have worked fine < 1280938773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expanded the type system to give safety checks < 1280938788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, it was the programmer's responsibility to give the proof of safety, not splint's reponsibility to find one < 1280938835 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think I was "factoring out" the possibility of "fake free()" in my version. Or if you like, add "true" to the part where I mention "free()" too. < 1280938841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun writing an interpreter in that. "Will you free these objects?" "Uhh, I will if they stop being used by the underlying code, but since I have no idea what that's going to do, maybe?" < 1280938845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ^^^ < 1280938869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: functions had to be deterministic about whether they freed or not < 1280938880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's OK to add everything to a global list, then free it all at the end < 1280938908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Awesome. You can't write an interpreter for a GC'd language. Sounds pro to me. < 1280938909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, you could free earlier if you knew the object wasn't being used (say it went out of scope and had a zero refcount) < 1280938924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course you can < 1280938932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do the GC yourself < 1280938939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting + loopbreaking would work fine, for instance < 1280938948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if that's a crazy GC architecture < 1280938979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well yeah, you can just treat malloc() as sbrk() and do everything yourself, I'm not being fair there X-P < 1280939007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is that it's difficult to define what "correct" is in this space since a language in which you can't free at all is still A-OK :P < 1280939033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. malloc() is implemented in terms of sbrk(), and on most systems there's no way to relinquish that back to the OS, and yet C code doesn't just bloat up to infinity. < 1280939063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought implementing malloc in terms of sbrk was deprecated nowadays < 1280939077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it is, or at least was, IIRC, the usual implementation strategy < 1280939078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not deprecated, it's just not part of the standard. < 1280939094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically the standard loosened to allow other implementations, but that's still the common one. < 1280939120 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1280939303 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280939333 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1280939523 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1280939767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :German people apparently can't gender-map my first name (Heikki), because a place I once ordered a used laptop from keeps sending me their ads prefixed by "Frau Kallasjoki". < 1280939808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I would guess with "Heikki" < 1280939814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the Grand Prix driver with that name is male < 1280939818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's only the one data point < 1280939819 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Heike" is a German female name. < 1280939836 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently in China "Gregor" reads as a female name :P < 1280939849 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least ambiguous enough to be overwhelmed by my feminine wiles. < 1280939954 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-i reads as femaleish in English, I suppose... < 1280939992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because most names ending -i are a ridiculous sort of abbreviation < 1280939998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in norwegian, mostly < 1280940011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tend to be confined to a particular sort of stereotype, which only applies to women < 1280940012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Kari, Siri) < 1280940052 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Heidi, though that's actually from german < 1280940254 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We need more names that conflict with the Unix toolchain. "And these are my children, Diff and Sed!" < 1280940283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Biff? < 1280940290 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ya go. < 1280940310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roff < 1280940651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete tangent: I suppose it would be possible to have a completely name-based type system, that is, all types are given names by the user, and 2 types are equivalent iff they have the same name. Maybe? < 1280940662 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/user/programmer/ < 1280940672 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't want USERS giving names to types, do we? < 1280940691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make that the only form of I/O < 1280940705 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? < 1280940716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just blue skies esothinking < 1280942291 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: and the operations will be "come here", "wash your hands", "spit that out"... < 1280942812 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E760F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944216 0 :asmodeo_!~asmodeo@186.141.139.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944295 0 :asmodeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1280944321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes for the first time that the back of his palate has a hole above it, he always assumed there would be bone there < 1280944323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280944367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means it took me 40 years to discover something easily checked on my own body! < 1280944454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only started picking there because his palate got a sore spot < 1280944490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I bet you don't know what your ear canal looks like. < 1280944508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably not < 1280944521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that _would_ seem to require special equipment < 1280944845 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-153-53.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280944861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is this Mathnerd314 person? < 1280944901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some nerd who thinks he knows mathematics just because he can recite 3 digits of pi ;D < 1280944922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159265...4? < 1280944925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- knows 15 < 1280944932 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi? tl;dr < 1280944939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Please don't make me add "rounding Pi down to three" to your list of crimes", like they say. < 1280944943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there's a 4 in there somewhere, yes < 1280944959 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can go better. 1_pi. < 1280944972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14159265...4 looks as if 4 would be the last digit. < 1280944978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Phantom_Hoover -----### < 1280944988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*10_pi < 1280944996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAoops. < 1280945028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember 3.14159265358979, but no more. < 1280945031 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now _that_ can be added to a list of crimes < 1280945045 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@184-195-169-80.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: me 2! < 1280945069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless... < 1280945073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell pi < 1280945074 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793 < 1280945086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very helpful < 1280945090 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one more, though. < 1280945098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putFloat? < 1280945105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i think it's rounded up < 1280945109 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t pi < 1280945110 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi :: (Floating a) => a < 1280945119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not rounded; it goes 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841968... < 1280945133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That 8 there might be rounded, though. It was from bc, scale=40, a(1)*4.) < 1280945141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'm not sure EgoBot has any arbitrary precision floats (there _are_ packages for it) < 1280945149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah 323 < 1280945156 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include \nint main() { printf("%f", PI) } < 1280945157 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, in Haskell. < 1280945166 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr < 1280945173 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c #include \nint main() { printf("%f", PI); return 0; } < 1280945181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's M_PI, and it might not be defined by default, since it's not standard. < 1280945186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i _almost_ remember the 323. except somehow i thought it was 262 a moment ago < 1280945195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i mean EgoBot's haskell < 1280945203 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: D'aww boo :P < 1280945222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I thought it was GHC, like the rest of us use. < 1280945266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: and that has nothing to do with what i am talking about, since the builtin types of ghc don't include arbitrary precision floats afaik < 1280945269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!run echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, no go? < 1280945279 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, aaah. < 1280945293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes you could get the nth digit of pi in decimal. < 1280945297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "packages" i mean on the hackage repository < 1280945340 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, you mean Haskell doesn't provide a *lazy* pi? < 1280945344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just wrong! < 1280945351 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You want `run < 1280945361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it doesn't provide a lazy number type, by default < 1280945365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, right. < 1280945370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945374 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945378 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: That's ... oh god lazy computable number *brain axplote* < 1280945381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or !sh, probably. < 1280945395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, no bc, quotation issues, something else? < 1280945398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That 68 there is wrong, it should go 7169... < 1280945403 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: No excuse. It could provide it as a list of digits then. < 1280945417 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many ways can you run arbitrary code on Codu? 5? 6? :P < 1280945424 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: And it needs to provide a lazy Chaitin's omega, as well, clearly. < 1280945426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`bc < 1280945427 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945448 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: YES. Computability be damned :) < 1280945448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run bc -v < 1280945449 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bc, maybe. < 1280945461 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v < 1280945462 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945464 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could just be broke too :P < 1280945469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or a pagan bc without -v? < 1280945480 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280945481 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280945483 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945483 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.xen.prgmr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it output stderr too, or just stdout? < 1280945486 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v < 1280945487 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1280945493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: um a list of digits is just one possible implementation of a lazy number type < 1280945493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run dc -v 2>&1 < 1280945495 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/bash: line 1: dc: command not found < 1280945500 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hi < 1280945502 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280945505 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that sorts that. < 1280945506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, well, that's more informative in any case. < 1280945513 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, no dc or bc. Weird. < 1280945519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh ls < 1280945519 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interps < 1280945528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh dc -v < 1280945529 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/dc: invalid option -- v < 1280945530 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Well yes. It would be better if Haskell provided lazy reals as a primitive type, obviously, but beggars can't be choosers. < 1280945549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo 'scale=100; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280945549 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307\ < 1280945572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh dc -e "[foo]P" < 1280945572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that works, though bc line-wraps it. (The rest came with DCC chat, as usual.) < 1280945573 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1280945594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1280945594 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1280945604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It might go wrong in the bottommost digits since the scale for a(1) is 40, and then I multiply that by 4. < 1280945607 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!helpuserinterps < 1280945609 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help userinterps < 1280945610 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :userinterps: Users can add interpreters written in any of the languages in !help languages. See !help addinterp, delinterp, show | !userinterps. List interpreters added with !addinterp. < 1280945620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yep. < 1280945620 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help languages < 1280945621 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. < 1280945632 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help addinterp < 1280945632 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addinterp: !addinterp . Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type ! , and receive the program code as input. < 1280945652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t Data.Number.CReal.showCReal < 1280945675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !haskell isn't GHCi < 1280945679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $1 < 1280945679 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945683 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi hello < 1280945686 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi hello world < 1280945688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes it is < 1280945696 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $@ < 1280945696 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is already an interpreter for pi! < 1280945704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945704 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945705 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell main = putStrLn "Hi" < 1280945708 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1280945714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think it is < 1280945715 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh echo $@ < 1280945715 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945721 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi a b c < 1280945735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, how do the args work, then? < 1280945739 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, pretty sure !haskell IS ghci < 1280945744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945745 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945753 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, ^ < 1280945757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell :t "Yes it is" < 1280945758 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes it is" :: [Char] < 1280945760 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They are the input. < 1280945765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1280945776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, hmm. < 1280945783 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdin, that is. < 1280945819 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; echo $p < 1280945819 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280945822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 23 < 1280945827 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 < 1280945837 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280945859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Isn't it just https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/index.cgi/file/1fe97d50a1d8/multibot_cmds/interps/ghc/runghc ? < 1280945868 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yup < 1280945879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sh for "if $p == '', 0, else $p"? < 1280945900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason not to like Smalltalk? < 1280945901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280945901 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280945946 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-40-27.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945976 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280945983 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because Smalltalk killed my family. < 1280946019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a horrible, yet classy way < 1280946028 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ba-dum ching* < 1280946096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280946114 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280946119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Something like: if [ -n "$p" ]; then echo $p; else echo 0; fi < 1280946120 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=0; fi; echo 'scale=$p; a(1)*4;' | bc -l < 1280946120 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280946130 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 5 < 1280946131 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(standard_in) 1: illegal character: $ < 1280946140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ -n "$p" ]] || $p < 1280946141 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp pi < 1280946141 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi deleted. < 1280946150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp pi sh read p; if [ "x$p" = "x" ]; then p=0; fi; echo "scale=$p; a(1)*4;" | bc -l < 1280946150 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter pi installed. < 1280946152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 5 < 1280946152 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14156 < 1280946159 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally... < 1280946164 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Y'know you can do this in a /query, right? :P < 1280946167 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 500 < 1280946168 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307\ < 1280946194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W, /query? I assume that's some black IRC magic. < 1280946215 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280946216 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1280946218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: Do both EgoBot and HackEgo speak to query? I've always wondered, but never dared to try it out, just in case they'd take offence at unsolicited private messaging. < 1280946226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops... < 1280946247 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: /query opens a PM window with a user :P < 1280946282 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They do not take offense, and enjoy private conversation. Do not be offended if they start getting overly personal, although their sex drives are quite powerful they are incapable of actually acting on it and so you have nothing to fear. < 1280946286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280946286 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.14156 < 1280946290 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better. < 1280946319 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to merge EgoBot, HackEgo and Hackiki into one lean, mean, arbitrary-code-runnin' machine. < 1280946411 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's its use? < 1280946414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You could consider piping the bc output to | tr -d '\n\\' so that it all ends up in one row. (Though that would, I guess, limit you to IRC's maximum line length...) < 1280946431 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, tr complains at that. < 1280946454 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, damn single quotes... < 1280946492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi 500 < 1280946493 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971693993751058209749445923078164062862089986280348253421170679821480865132823066470938446095505822317253594081284811174502841027019385211055596446229489549303819644288109756659334461284756482337867831652712019091456485669234603486104543266482133936072602491412737245870066063155881748815209209628292540917153643678925903600113305305488204665213841469519415116094330572703657595919530921861173819326117931051185480744 < 1280946499 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There we go. < 1280946520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Come to think of it, instead do export BC_LINE_LENGTH=490 before the command, that way it'll be long but still continue if it wouldn't fit on a IRC-line. < 1280946550 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trying... < 1280946656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!sh echo limits | bc | tr '\n' ' ' < 1280946657 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BC_BASE_MAX = 2147483647 BC_DIM_MAX = 16777215 BC_SCALE_MAX = 2147483647 BC_STRING_MAX = 2147483647 MAX Exponent = 9223372036854775807 Number of vars = 32767 < 1280946669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will only go up to 2147483647, it seems. < 1280946677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's more than eleven. < 1280946694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, now it annoys you through DCC if you ask it for a billion digits. < 1280946705 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1280946736 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION then has to try doing it on his own computer with a billion digits. < 1280946741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280946751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as pi computation goes, I don't think bc a(1)*4 is very much on the efficient end of the spectrum. < 1280946764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280946911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/EbcM -- not the fastest thing in the west. < 1280947024 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo hello < 1280947025 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo hello < 1280947026 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1280947040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!he echo fungot < 1280947040 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo fungot < 1280947041 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: another motive induces me to put the judgment of history, and to tear from the populace a single favourite. < 1280947041 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1280947056 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, fungot ignores his fellow bots < 1280947063 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, due to too many bot-loops. < 1280947081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo !pi < 1280947082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ignore < 1280947082 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!pi < 1280947082 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^(EgoBot|HackEgo|toBogE) < 1280947087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the current list of it. < 1280947095 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is toBogE? < 1280947117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot's evil twin, obviously < 1280947121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall; based on the name only, it may have been another EgoBot instance. < 1280947142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, explain. < 1280947174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it was his bot < 1280947177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently ran by immibis. < 1280947185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on a quick grep.) < 1280947187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1280947193 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 'twasn't mine. < 1280947202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you'd definitely want to ignore that >:D < 1280947220 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's immibis < 1280947225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/?/ < 1280947239 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1280947253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy who liked to do verbose things with bots < 1280947268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is my user page. I created RubE_On_Conveyor_Belts and MailBox (page coming soon). I will occasionally come on irc.freenode.net #esoteric." < 1280947270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't seen him for a while < 1280947291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, /me exists for a reason. < 1280947312 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, if I merged my bots, you could upload some code to the Esolangs Hackiki for an esolang, then run it here :) < 1280947314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't even notice that < 1280947354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen 'im last 2010-01-31 quitting with the message [Quit: #dsdev on irc.blitzed.org exists], but it might not be relevant to the prolonged silence. < 1280947391 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: I imagine you could install [eso]interpreters written in arbitrary languages, instead of just the 'n' that EgoBot currently provides? < 1280947427 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without bugging me to update EgoBot's hg :) < 1280947534 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, I'd only have one bot on #esoteric X-P < 1280947534 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280947570 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280947805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: And access Hackiki articles here. :P < 1280947851 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except that people are clamoring for Hackiki as an adjunct, not a primary. < 1280947877 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, that is the only workable option, really. < 1280947915 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having no Hackiki is also a workable model :P < 1280948154 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact! THERE ARE NO FUN FACTS. < 1280948194 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL FACTS ARE DEAD SERIOUS, AND MOST ARE PAINFUL TOO. < 1280948321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Good news everybody! I have eliminated all fun facts! < 1280948381 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280948398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact n = if n<=1 then 1 else n * fact(n-1) < 1280948428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1280948506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1280949057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you have outdone yourself. < 1280949086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my work here is outdone. < 1280949140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mostly copied that from some SML link < 1280949452 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280951140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1280951158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, why? < 1280951164 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact < 1280951367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This clone thing is driving me crazy... < 1280951390 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1280951396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well are you sure that you're really _you_ who are being driven crazy? < 1280951412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "crazy" figuratively. < 1280951423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, it's probably on the BBC somewhere. < 1280951447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then, are you sure that you're really _you_ who are being driven "crazy", figuratively? < 1280951451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's on the front page of BBC news... < 1280951469 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Are you insinuating that I am a clone? < 1280951504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey it was you that started it < 1280951582 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, cloned COWS. < 1280951588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1280951746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could be a cow, with those hooves < 1280951869 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280951898 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280952876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides that it's better to get to the root cause of a bug than to just slap a if (whatever != null) in front of a line < 1280952913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how quaint! < 1280953126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (whatever == null) whatever = malloc(4096); /* here's some bytes for you */ < 1280953156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lowercase-"null" sounds non-C, though.) < 1280953181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you don't need to check if whatever is null anymore!!! < 1280953283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nullptr obv < 1280953283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you can turn a new page < 1280953377 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I make top display in order of memory used? < 1280953380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top < 1280953388 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-196.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1280953394 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/.*// < 1280953410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgets everything Phantom_Hoover has ever said < 1280953416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1280953477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The "top" I have here has a nifty quick-access thing that "M" makes it sort by the "%MEM" column. < 1280953501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true ifTrue: [ Transcript show: 'Hi #esoteric!' ] < 1280953519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Smalltalk would be a decent first language < 1280953566 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you wonder that with for every language. < 1280953576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you press "B" it bolds the current sort column, and then you can use < and > to move it left and right. < 1280953593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if x86-64 assembly would be a decent first language. < 1280953614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kids today, no idea how lucky they have it. < 1280953699 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Alan Kay wondered that too! < 1280953751 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one thing I dislike about Smalltalk is how casually stuff adds methods to root object classes < 1280953767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With no namespace stuff, so potential for collision is rather high < 1280953809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it should be so that only the High Clergy is allowed to access the Holiest of Objects. < 1280953812 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby can suffer from that too. < 1280953822 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I mean MatzLisp. < 1280954022 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I don't like about Smalltalk is its syntax. < 1280954297 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1280954347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, that's what I hate about Ruby < 1280954358 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[And how non-unified it is. Magical blocks? < 1280954380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I hate that Ruby is non-unified too. < 1280954401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I may have used the wrong phrase < 1280954418 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I caught what you mean anyway. < 1280954457 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It and Perl both belong to the "Magic is GOOD!" school... < 1280954474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So does Python, but Python's in denial.) < 1280954492 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic is GOOD!? < 1280954503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of magic? < 1280954523 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of wondering what pro-magic stuff is like < 1280954544 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sparkly, special magic that makes everything NEAT!!! < 1280954559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But having blocks not be objects? Really? < 1280954565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some weird yield keyword to get to blocks? < 1280954571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gibbers < 1280954572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blocks? < 1280954687 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the block thing was just a funny syntax for passing a lambda to something. < 1280954704 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not, no matter! < 1280954710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use more magic! < 1280954722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... is, except they're not objects < 1280954729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the receiver receives it as an object < 1280954736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can only pass one block to a method < 1280954753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, one block as a block. You can objectify blocks, but that's not normally how things are done < 1280954755 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else could the receiver receive it as? < 1280954791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ... thing detectable somehow [forgot how] and called with the yield keyword < 1280954804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the normal way of doing it < 1280954830 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic sugar! < 1280954888 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic sugar to make the magic chainsaw pretty! Whee! < 1280955049 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1280955057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, here's more definition fun like yesterday's reddit comment: "Blocks, Procs and lambdas (referred to as closures in Computer Science) are one of the most powerful aspects of Ruby, and also one of the most misunderstood." http://www.robertsosinski.com/2008/12/21/understanding-ruby-blocks-procs-and-lambdas/ < 1280955149 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280955206 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the closure-lambda confusion is actually pretty understandable. < 1280955243 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Agreed. Most because closures are a way to implement lambdas. < 1280955248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Mostly < 1280955293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd. I could've sworn CS called them "lambda expressions" or "anonymous functions". < 1280955310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the obvious caveat that they do, in some manner, close over their environment. < 1280955334 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, lambdas are closures if closures are present. < 1280955393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, not if your lambda syntax for some reason allows an option to not be a closure < 1280955403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make an esolang that does that! < 1280955410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^another thing I always say < 1280955478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to regard "lambda" as jargon, and tend to prefer "function value" (which is flexible enough to be applied to either syntax or semantics, if it's clear from context.) < 1280955491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: C++0x < 1280955502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You list the variables, if any, that you close over. < 1280955514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in what manner (references or copies) < 1280955631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "lambda" is much easier to type than "anonymous function", though. < 1280955668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280955685 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280955719 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels free to :p at anyone who suggests that all lambdas are closures < 1280956111 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All ζs are φs. < 1280956161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all squiggles are squiggles < 1280956294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power is power. < 1280956411 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Women is women, but MEN is men! < 1280956427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, tell that to alise. < 1280956618 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280956623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two of most useful items in the game are: a magic marker and a can of grease. Both are disgustingly uncommon. * < 1280956623 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most useful item in the game is easily a Wand of Wishing. Which you will then use to wish for grease and magic markers." -- The TV Tropes Wiki page on NetHack. < 1280956640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1280956867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The atheist "OUT" campaign logo, FSM, ACLU, EFF, FIJA, Kopimi, pirate logo from The Pirate Bay, LGBT rainbow, NORML. < 1280956878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the most stereotypical Internet logo-sidebar ever. < 1280956918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we were just talking about you < 1280956950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the Paris Hilton kind of celebrity or the Brain Cox kind of celebrity? < 1280956982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain Cox, since I've never heard of him. < 1280957017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ! < 1280957045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The physicist? < 1280957046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: only the coolest particle physicist slash pop musician slash pop-science TV presenter ever < 1280957056 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the only one. < 1280957065 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I know him. < 1280957072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just terrible with names. < 1280957087 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a name for "Brain Cox after people believe he made a mistake"? < 1280957114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now tragically confused and wants to hurt you all, you all < 1280957124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hi. < 1280957125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1280957150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tl;dr in the UK we have a handful of celebrities who are intelligent and awesome < 1280957152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since when did you stop logreading? < 1280957175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when talking to people outside britain we usually use the words "national treasure" to convey this. < 1280957182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram Alpha, "mass of sun in bananas" => input interpretation "banana | amount | 1 banana", and then a "nutrition facts" table with e.g. 6.562*10^24 metric tons of fat; but nowhere it mentions the sun any more. < 1280957185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I do it while chatting. < 1280957201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I would like those bananas, please. < 1280957218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a solar banana, I guess. < 1280957453 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: your best celebrity is Richard Clarkson, period < 1280957466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 Terry Pratchett < 1280957488 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck noo < 1280957490 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeremy < 1280957492 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1280957506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clarkson is a pig; an amusing pig, but a pig. < 1280957514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Conservative, global-warming-denying pig. < 1280957540 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmmmpf < 1280957574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Haldo < 1280957591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeremy Clockson? < 1280957608 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghh < 1280957625 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dave Gilmour < 1280957638 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of PINK FLOYD !11! < 1280957641 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know none of these names. < 1280957643 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION panics < 1280957661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I guess I have heard of Terry Pratt. < 1280957703 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately for you, Jeremy Clockson is fictional < 1280957729 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you son of a clock! < 1280957732 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :David Gilmour is ... very dull. < 1280957764 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i like it when he plays < 1280957810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a C emitter < 1280957817 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what for? < 1280957819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I wrote anything that wasn't an interpreter < 1280957823 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Eightebed < 1280957828 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1280957855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bliss < 1280957855 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: My way of telling Gregor he is wrong, wrong, WRONG < 1280957873 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what? < 1280957895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, something to do with GC or something. One sec < 1280957896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safe Coids. < 1280957911 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is eightebed the one with safe pointers? < 1280957922 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only problem being that I'm right, right, RIGHT < 1280957939 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: tried MacRuby ? < 1280957950 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: a long time ago. < 1280957960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: how is it not utterly boring? < 1280957966 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. And dancing beagles, if you're lucky < 1280957988 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet! I love dancing beagles! < 1280958003 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles ruby to llvm and then llvm emits native code < 1280958006 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: "A language which provides a true explicit free() cannot be safe. (By "true" I mean that you can get that memory back in a later malloc().) To be safe a language must either never free (which is bad) or be GC'd." -- Gregor's claim < 1280958033 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it's enormously fast compared to mri and other implementations < 1280958047 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: what's the reason for that claim? < 1280958054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Great. A quick way to run a language so boring it makes me want to aestivate. < 1280958058 0 :Gregor-W!836b416f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.107.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280958066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That only runs on a rather naff proprietary operating system. < 1280958070 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to be perfectly clear, I am only referring to C-like languages :P < 1280958078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Ruby, boring? Magic sugar chainsaw language, BORING??? < 1280958081 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you like roby < 1280958082 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby < 1280958087 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why i asked you < 1280958108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: that was in a past life, one filled with a lot more gradients and drop shadows < 1280958110 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, now Gregor can say Eightebed proves nothing because it's not sufficiently "C-like" < 1280958114 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, imperative languages with pointers at arbitrary data, where safety is defined as not seeing that data as a different type. < 1280958118 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: rotfl < 1280958146 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it is that, at least < 1280958155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was feeling like Sisyphus there for a sec < 1280958170 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have further-specified all my horribly-ambiguous claims ;) < 1280958210 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1280958211 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: And here is my reasoning: If you can relinquish memory to the system then reallocate it, you can alias that under two types, since detecting whether a reference is still in use statically is equivalent to the halting problem. < 1280958240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flergh, why do languages suck? < 1280958240 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you can alias it under two types, then of course you can write one type and read another, causing the universe to explode ^^ < 1280958258 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: which? < 1280958260 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: that assumes that the memory is returned unchanged < 1280958278 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: No it doesn't, you'll still have two references to it. You just need to write through one and read through another even if it's reinited. < 1280958283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: all of them < 1280958297 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280958311 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: ah, I see what you mean < 1280958312 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Actually languages are very good, all languages, I find people who can;t get their punctuation right! Believe this. < 1280958312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I've fallen in love with Smalltalk, I think < 1280958316 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1280958318 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int **a = /* allocate */; dostuff(a) /* I don't know that dostuff will free a */; int *b = /* allocate */; *b = whatever; **a /*boom*/; < 1280958328 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, because you love hating everything? < 1280958329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I see. It is flawed. < 1280958341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, it really does suck < 1280958346 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Your reasoning is pretty awesome X-D < 1280958347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: name a good language < 1280958349 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk? < 1280958353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, besides the commonality of un-namespaced methods being added to core objects on a regular basis, what's wrong with it? < 1280958354 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, everything. < 1280958357 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I stop falling in love with flawed languages? D-'8 < 1280958366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are you saying that there are no good languages? < 1280958370 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: you require a lobotomy < 1280958380 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ones you can actually use, at least < 1280958393 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I thought you like Haskell. < 1280958412 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what are Smalltalk's flaws? < 1280958415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but haskell is one of the most disappointing languages < 1280958418 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in potential vs reality < 1280958419 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: numerous < 1280958429 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) It is not sufficiently spicy. < 1280958435 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "potential vs reality" < 1280958437 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280958448 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) When you serialize its environment and print it out, it takes too many pages. < 1280958454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: a language "recognisably similar to", "of the same strain as" Haskell could have been truly epically amazing < 1280958461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell itself is ... good, but, you know. < 1280958467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not /holy shit fucking awesome cakes/. < 1280958480 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) Any language with "Small" in it threatens my masculinity. < 1280958487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you aren't making any sense. < 1280958494 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4) Any language with "talk" in it threatens my masculinity. < 1280958496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I really am. < 1280958512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am saying that Haskell had, before it was made concrete, /huge potential/ < 1280958519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am saying that it disappoints, based on this potential. < 1280958535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could this not just be you expecting too much? < 1280958541 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EO472qM6M9g < 1280958548 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha... i don't even... < 1280958576 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell code is often just as hard to read as Perl. And usually harder to understand. < 1280958581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i've seen the seeds of development that create languages so much less disappointing and in the vein of haskell < 1280958596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are usually quite impractical (dependently-typed programming hasn't been worked out yet), but ... < 1280958598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what, fuck it < 1280958606 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because you did a good job doesn't mean you created something excellent < 1280958610 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if all languages suck... < 1280958613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what is unfulfilling with Haskell itself? < 1280958623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retarded kids can try really hard and do a really excellent job and produce a piece of paper with the letter A on it, that is not amazing < 1280958643 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you're conflating "sucks" with "isn't perfect". < 1280958651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: type system has too many special features to handle things like typeclasses, etc., requires extensions which can't be inferred and make stuff blargh to be useful ... < 1280958657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntactical quirks < 1280958659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad standard library < 1280958659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still curious about Smalltalk's flaws < 1280958678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, really, haskell sucks compared to what languages could be, we just all have terrible standards < 1280958699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am fucking tired < 1280958714 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: is it even possible to create a language that does not suck? in your opinion < 1280958728 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I've heard that it's bad to put built binaries in version control, but why < 1280958729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1280958740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sir, I submit to you that a flying machine is a physical impossibility. < 1280958756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i defer to cpressey < 1280958773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: version control systems mostly suck at binaries, they could be out of date, it's generally pointless < 1280958779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they mostly suck at binaries. < 1280958803 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hackiki has binaries in its VCS ... but then it's not really being used as a VCS X-P < 1280958813 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, the Plof Hackiki does anyway) < 1280958814 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, have any better way for me to get the stuff to the host given that I only have RDP access? < 1280958851 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages < 1280958869 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use mainly ruby and C < 1280958888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but there is shit significantly better than we have < 1280958897 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958917 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958924 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :206| i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages even if there's no holy grail, that doesn't mean cups of crap is ok < 1280958943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-W: TWO SPACES BETWEEN MESSAGES < 1280958957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so why has noöne made a better one < 1280958975 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you guys deny whole history of computing < 1280958985 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why does no-one use the diaeresis? < 1280958987 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They're too busy making lolcats on icanhazcheeseburger.com < 1280958991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you mean, things slowly, steadily improving? < 1280959041 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"modern cars are shitty, every single one of them - you can crash, they don't teleport and you have to know how to drive" < 1280959046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.. < 1280959053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\.\.$/./ < 1280959069 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, noöne is interrupting. < 1280959070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shit, i've seen beatuful cars, fast cars, comfortable cars, usable cars < 1280959071 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1280959074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nooga is. < 1280959077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: you know, innovation is possible and happens. < 1280959086 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280959087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: and there is significant evidence of the possibility of good languages < 1280959097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can easily be seen how technology has been held back if you study it a bit < 1280959110 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but complaining about current state without active search for future solutions < 1280959113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cars have been around since pick a date according to your definition of car < 1280959117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so then why has noöne made one? It's not like making a car; you only need a computer, intelligence and time. < 1280959117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are new and people suck at them < 1280959123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: guess what? Just because we whine about it doesn't mean we aren't looking. < 1280959131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even cpressey is, in his own way. < 1280959158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why hasn't anyone formulated the Grand Unified Theory yet? It's not like making a car; you only need pen, paper, intelligence and time. < 1280959188 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe human brain is too small for that :F < 1280959192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, there isn't really any evidence that one of them exists, but you act like there must obviously be a perfect language. < 1280959199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even me! ~~ < 1280959200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, people have made /better/ languages, it's just that today's /ecosystems/ like operating systems etc. aren't very friendly to them < 1280959214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i think of languages as tools, there is no holy grail of languages no, but there is shit significantly better than we have < 1280959227 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your definition of "acting", "explicitly denies"? < 1280959250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1280959274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. OK, s/perfect language/better language/ < 1280959299 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1280959320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wait, you are actually saying that it's not obvious a better language exists than the ones we use today? < 1280959326 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what are the properties of language better than existing ones? < 1280959339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking hell, you like Lisp; people who do day-to-day programming, C and shit, they have no idea about Lisp < 1280959352 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, we *have* Lisp, though. < 1280959354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it so hard to imagine a better language that is unknown like Lisp and impractical in today's world in the same ways as Lisp? < 1280959360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: we have Epigram, too < 1280959378 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, does it suck? < 1280959423 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1280959427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less so < 1280959459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's almost entirely theoretical because nobody wants to bother making a practical language because it's hard and nobody gives you any support or thanks, just "and how can I HTTP synergise with this?" < 1280959469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus modern academic language design. < 1280959480 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful < 1280959517 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't write a modern OS using some heavily math based language < 1280959518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :care to qualify that awful? say, give it an object to indicate what is awful? < 1280959523 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. you can < 1280959532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"of course it's almost entirely theoretical because nobody wants to bother making a practical language because it's hard and nobody gives you any support or thanks" < 1280959535 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be worse than selfdestruction < 1280959541 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, FAIL. < 1280959562 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine if Solaris was written in Haskell < 1280959568 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i call fail < 1280959573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine Solaris. < 1280959576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I call fail. < 1280959577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, do you seriously think "good" = "you can write an OS in it"? < 1280959583 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooo < 1280959585 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280959596 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i still think that languages are tools < 1280959611 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, AND ACADEMIC LANGUAGES AREN'T TOOLS FOR OS DESIGN < 1280959614 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need hamer? use hammer. you need scalpel? use scalpel < 1280959632 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i konow < 1280959634 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1280959636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We *have* tools for OS design. < 1280959645 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that < 1280959648 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, conventional OS design, anyway. < 1280959658 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1280959667 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so how does it reflect badly on Haskell that you couldn't write an OS in it? < 1280959676 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not] < 1280959677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have good non-academic languages because CREATING GOOD PRACTICAL LANGUAGES JUST GETS YOU INSULTS, FLAMES AND NO BENEFIT WHATSOEVER < 1280959679 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point was < 1280959690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It has been done (for some definitions of "OS"). < 1280959690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ACADEMIC languages are RESPECTED and get you *ACADEMIC CREDIT* < 1280959694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see what's so bad about Smalltalk :/ < 1280959703 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax < 1280959705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a SELF PERPETUATING PROBLEM caused by the IDIOCY of today's computing and it is /everyone's fucking fault/. < 1280959707 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tools < 1280959710 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, syntax sucks. < 1280959712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just shut up < 1280959718 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Phantom_Hoover is wrong :P < 1280959721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk is pretty damn good < 1280959726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have doubts about OOP in general < 1280959729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... imperative programming < 1280959731 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's a damned lot better than many other OO-type languages. However, it does have flaws. < 1280959755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now at least, I'd consider it the example of how to do OO right. < 1280959769 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still want to know what those flaws are :/ < 1280959771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not because it can't be better, but because just about everything else is *worse*) < 1280959783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, did the designers of Haskell get flamed and insulted? < 1280959805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Didn't when it was purely academic. It does now. < 1280959810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Uh ... yeah, Haskell is regularly insulted. The only reason the designers didn't take it and the fans now do, is because it was /originally a highly academic language/. < 1280959826 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha! < 1280959836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it became popular and people started writing bad libraries and crap in it, giving it bad package management tools, flooding the channel with bullshit, and then everyone else pointed and laughed. < 1280959852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The syntax is irritating, it's dynamically typed, and it's dynamically typed. < 1280959853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus demonstrating the immense worthwhileness of creating a good, practical language. < 1280959854 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, people will write bad libraries anyway. < 1280959855 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met Phil Wadler in Edinburgh! < 1280959857 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Immense meaning "0". < 1280959861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dynamic typing is that much of a failure) < 1280959869 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said 'hi' to me < 1280959870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yeah, but some haskell code /really, truly/ misunderstands what haskell is. an awful lot of it < 1280959877 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Smalltalk's syntax is fine, dammit. < 1280959891 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that's because you can't have an idiot detector in the compiler. < 1280959901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Okay, fine. s/The syntax is irritating/It's dynamically typed/ < 1280959906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Transcript show: 'I can survive this.'; cr. < 1280959910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how about we agree that you ignore that part of the sentence < 1280959912 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Wadler ) < 1280959913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and read the rest of it < 1280959949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what are statically-typed Smalltalk-like languages? < 1280959963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Strongtalk, I think had something ... maybe ... but basically nothing ... < 1280959967 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Oh, the dude who compared monads to a solution to Descartes' mind-body problem? < 1280959976 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1280959993 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's loose < 1280959998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Hey, Wadler is awesome. Just ... not that specific thing. < 1280960012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: Better put him back in his cage then. < 1280960015 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I don't get why people writing bad libraries will stop with a better language, though. Which seems from here to be your point. < 1280960017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also amazes me the people that think that pretty much anything functional is "magic". < 1280960059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I thought we agreed to ignore that part? < 1280960068 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other part am I not ignoring? < 1280960070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Then it became popular XXXXX, giving it bad package management tools, flooding the channel with bullshit, and then everyone else pointed and laughed. < 1280960081 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada, no more things about libraries for you to complain about. < 1280960096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, OK, so your point is that people started laughing when the idiots came. < 1280960104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1280960106 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i used bad word < 1280960111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is it became popular then people started laughing. < 1280960115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idiots were just a side note. < 1280960116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore it. < 1280960121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucking hell, I'm insanely tired, cut me slack. < 1280960138 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean't 'cool' but 'loose' is exact translation from PL < 1280960162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so why did people start laughing? < 1280960172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: because it became popular < 1280960176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had to synergise HTTP. < 1280960181 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are these monads? In enterprise we do not use monads! < 1280960188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You innovate, but how does this interact with RUBY? < 1280960199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha, all this mathematical masturbation. How does it help me drive my toaster? < 1280960200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now brb. < 1280960218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what a compromise between static and dynamic typing might look like < 1280960225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something that allows safety and flexibility < 1280960234 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but surely your view of a better language would be more mathematical than Haskell? < 1280960253 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's what I fear < 1280960256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe something similar, but not identical, to OCaml's and Scala's statically-typed duck-typing-like thing? < 1280960284 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you apply lazy evaluation to the type system and do lazy type-checking? < 1280960314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes but *wince* < 1280960321 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://www.pharo-project.org/home < 1280960324 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, wrong link < 1280960329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr at http://www.smalltalk.org/articles/article_20041002_a1.html < 1280960349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They imply that that fault is static type checking's fault, when it's a fault with that particular type system < 1280960360 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine that, say, dependent types would work well there < 1280960386 0 :yiyus_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280960463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Static typing as in C might not be the answer, but that's no reason to throw out static typing altogether < 1280960466 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More to the point, type systems do not and never will preclude bugs. < 1280960529 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1280960582 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The fact that Smalltalk's numbers "scale" - in this case small integers scale to larger numbers - dynamically has everything to do with a benefit over statically typed numbers." < 1280960594 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Static typing as in C is absolutely not the answer. < 1280960606 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has static typing? < 1280960613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Static, weak typing. < 1280960616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1280960629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P: Nope, it just precludes certain classes of bugs. Only idiots think static typing is the magic solution to all bugs. < 1280960643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, there are a large number of idiots. < 1280960668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static typing is not the solution to all bugs < 1280960670 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it helps < 1280960710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if by types we stopped meaning, say, Numbers, Strings, etc, and started meaning, say, XCoord, YCoord, Distance, DisplayedString, etc. < 1280960775 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various languages that allow opaque retyping < 1280960789 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That's what Hungarian Notation was originally supposed to be < 1280960797 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1280960809 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then Microsoft Microsofted the hell out of it < 1280960821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Joel endorses that sort of Hungarian Notation < 1280960841 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate hn < 1280960841 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to make it part of the language (one of my languages - Dieter) < 1280960844 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1280960887 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1280960948 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, seems easy enough < 1280961025 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no Dieter in our wiki < 1280961034 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It took me a while -- but it was more complicated than just that (the type system has polymorphic typing with type qualifiers) < 1280961038 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: it's not very esoteric < 1280961043 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show plz < 1280961128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/dieter/ < 1280961427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# The DevTeam implemented an immediate and savage punishment for pudding farmers. It's called Pudding Farming." -- The TV Tropes Wiki article on NetHack. < 1280961836 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'd imagine that, say, dependent types would work well there < 1280961841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dependent types have their own whole host of problems. < 1280961853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are unruly enough to be a Bad Idea unless the type language is total. < 1280961861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the type language is total, that implies a full functional language, more or less... < 1280961867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that point, why use an imperative language at the base? < 1280961871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain? < 1280961874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, dependent side-effecting types are hard. < 1280961892 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Explain what? < 1280961897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My program doesn't terminate, my macros don't terminate, and now my type checking doesn't terminate! Boffo. < 1280961912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total type languages, unruliness, dependent types... < 1280961916 0 :comex!comex@c-98-210-154-193.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280961947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Type language: the language used in the type system. if you don't realise that types are expressions, you don't know what dependent programming is < 1280961952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unruly: hard to control, nearly impossible to use < 1280961956 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types: you yourself used this term < 1280961963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi comex < 1280961969 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1280961980 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean I understood it, except vaguely as "A type that can be constrained to be, say, between 1 and 5" < 1280961982 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: are the details of your jailbreak exploit public? < 1280961984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm probably way off base < 1280962047 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-13-11.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962094 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, total? < 1280962120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: tl;dr terminating < 1280962243 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1280962307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, "total" in the sense that it is defined for all input values? < 1280962317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is where the term originates. < 1280962340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means all functions are total; thus no non-terminating replies; thus in a functional language as this applies to, all programs terminate < 1280962356 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah. < 1280962372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't have a practical, dependently-typed language? < 1280962378 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/9056286 HOW COOL IS THAT < 1280962378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Untrue. < 1280962383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just haven't figured out how yet. < 1280962384 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want one < 1280962392 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is Ongoing Research. Ask Connor McBride. He'll dazzle you with confusion. < 1280962404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if all functions are terminating you can't even write cat... < 1280962433 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are current dependently typed languages impractical? < 1280962434 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well cat is modelled with a Beuchi automaton, you see... < 1280962440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Untrue. < 1280962444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Codata allows infinite data. < 1280962452 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Codata...? < 1280962454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is why we say "total", not "always-terminating". < 1280962455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Büchi < 1280962460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: codata is this thing. < 1280962528 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What thing? < 1280962559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it's complicated. < 1280962575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love it when people ask questions that boil down to "please summarise this large field of study in a line" < 1280962577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*line". < 1280962594 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing that makes writing a simple cat pain < 1280962596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: instead of constructors you have destructors and they can be infinite. < 1280962605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: no, untrue, you can have a non-total base language < 1280962612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: also, using codata is friggin' easy < 1280962613 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, looked it up. < 1280962617 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not explaining it. < 1280962625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: try explaining imperative programmer to a "native" functional programmer < 1280962627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll sound like a madman. < 1280962629 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, incidentally, the typography at http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/groups/tatami/handdemos/doc/coind.htm is awful. < 1280962645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I see no typography < 1280962668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a gaudy background image, no CSS styling, and some old bitmap images for Greek letters. < 1280962672 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/typography/rendering of mathematical Things/ < 1280962827 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962834 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1280962844 0 :augur_!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280962890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nurse dancing is a minor tactic in NetHack. If you are naked and wielding nothing, a nurse will heal you instead of hurting you. If the healing attacks would heal you past your normal max hit points, your max hit points will increase." < 1280962984 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280962992 0 :augur_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1280963068 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963080 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but the FACT is our computers have such a thing called STATE < 1280963111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functional languages don't deny it. However, the "LOL computers have STATE" argument is basically preschool as far as functional languages are concerned and I have better things to do* than reply to it. < 1280963114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*such as nothing < 1280963125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe googling will turn up the answer to your complaint. Maybe not. < 1280963140 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretending that there's no such thing as STATE and trying to explain it to our computers is going the way round < 1280963140 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1280963150 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're stupid. < 1280963172 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just think that 'pure' languages are impractical for most uses < 1280963182 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc there are some cases when they rock < 1280963201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FACT, nooga, is that all computers have BITS in them! So I make sure to write all my programs to do bitwise operations on my data. < 1280963224 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=,= < 1280963227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do any less would be passing up a great opportunity! < 1280963244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The universe has quantum mechanics. I cannot take a reference to a variable without its value changing. < 1280963253 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280963254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is because my language is done the right way around. < 1280963256 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruling out state is much bigger abstraction than covering few bits with numbers < 1280963287 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1280963301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, so? < 1280963510 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :overkill < 1280963532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an awful argument < 1280963546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like you took a supremely mediocre argument, then just sort of dragged it down < 1280963603 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:52:48 But right now, after expunging my mind of the syntax horror that is OCaml, I'm obsessed with Smalltalk < 1280963608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you missed the nice language < 1280963610 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax isn't that bad < 1280963612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like it < 1280963660 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I could ever come to like OCaml, after tasting Haskell's [mostly] syntactical glory < 1280963671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, uh, ocaml has better syntax than haskell in many many places < 1280963677 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not glory, but cleanlinesslooking < 1280963694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have to write it < 1280963700 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reminisce about ocaml < 1280963714 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh come on, cars got 4 wheels, but you dont have to turn them personally, instead of that you use driving wheel and the engine takes care of the rest... but virtually you could build an extremely complicated robot that'd drive the car for you basing on your wishes < 1280963748 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's an overkill... nowadays, at least < 1280963756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga you really don't understand what you're talking about < 1280963757 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:40:56 "; has type unit -> 'b -> 'b" ;; that's a lie, ; is synta < 1280963779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*syntax < 1280963788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1280963802 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h27.51.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280963809 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITS A TARP < 1280963817 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1280963821 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually agree that languages are tools, but I would agree with the statement "pick the right abstraction for the job". Sometimes "stateful" is the right abstraction, sometimes "stateless" is, sometimes there is no right answer. < 1280963822 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's possible < 1280963823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1280963848 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i agree < 1280963869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Of course, the whole point is that /stateful/ can happen in a stateless language. < 1280963876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statelessness is an /abstraction/ of statefulness. < 1280963883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why you can perfectly well write imperative code in Haskell. < 1280963888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why people whining about it are stupid. < 1280963921 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1280963922 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to make AW SDK bindings for Smalltalk now < 1280963970 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how natural it is... we use some monadic trickery to mimic tatefulness in a stateless language that compiles to stateful language running on stateful machine < 1280963987 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like an optimal solution < 1280964011 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1280964017 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga, you don't get abstractions, do you? < 1280964040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nooga successfully ascends to the level of "assumption-making, stands-on-shoulders-of-giants (CPU architecture) but objects to adding more, complete and utter troll". < 1280964042 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I? < 1280964062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Jews would circumsize you at this point. < 1280964070 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not want < 1280964105 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, let's just assume that i am completely wrong, eot < 1280964166 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I support this assumption! < 1280964168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not really < 1280964274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram compilation fails for some reason... < 1280964286 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C emitted for Eightebed needs work, but it runs without crashing now! http://pastie.org/1076160 < 1280964287 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Could not find module `Control.Applicative':" < 1280964345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*emitter < 1280964364 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, my mere mortal eyes suggest that that's not valid C. < 1280964370 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1280964375 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Indeed sir. < 1280964402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's with the [DeRef]? < 1280964446 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just stubbed out the emitter stuff for variable references. And the struct contents, you see. < 1280964483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jim = eightebed_malloc(sizeof(node); < 1280964486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You missed a ). < 1280964496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, so totally abbreviate it as 8ebed, if C allows starting an identifier with 8. < 1280964505 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe tonight, I'll finish it. Then I'll still need to work on the runtime. And optionally the validity analyzer (although I could just write out the rules, say they must be followed, and not implement them) < 1280964520 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: indeed. I don't think it does. Maybe _8ebed. < 1280964553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Could I also inform you that it should be "node *foo", not "node* foo"? You can lynch me if you want. < 1280964588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: HAH. Next you'll want it to be indented and all. < 1280964630 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has this weird convention in decls about variables "being" the pointers instead of the types. But you know that probably. < 1280964660 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Instead of the types being pointer types. Except they are. Oh, C.) < 1280964707 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know of any languages where you can dynamically change the types of variables? < 1280964742 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Python comes immediately to mind. Of course, their values will generally change too. < 1280964769 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: variables don't have types in Python, only values < 1280964781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Well, granted. < 1280964822 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1280964841 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. foo := 4; foo @= string; foo == "4" # true < 1280964856 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: You could build a container that has a (dynamically changeable) type in Python, I suppose. < 1280964897 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h238.18.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1280964908 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: But what's stopping me from saying that all Python variables have a type, and that type is just derived from the type of the value that the variable is holding? < 1280964922 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't seem to be too different from your e.g. < 1280964955 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1280964960 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: because in my example, subsequently trying foo := 4 again would be an error because foo is a string < 1280964972 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but foo := 4 @ string would be fine) < 1280964991 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any idea why Epigram won't compile? < 1280965002 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: How is that dynamically changeable? Dynamically establishable, maybe... < 1280965007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Because it hates you! < 1280965016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Do you have she? < 1280965020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280965029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not an idiot at error diagnostics. < 1280965044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have ghc 6.12? < 1280965048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epigram requires it. < 1280965083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1280965100 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, must be off now. Slight chance I'll be back on later tonight. Ahoy! < 1280965101 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The specific error pertains to a lack of Control.Applicative. < 1280965103 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1280965128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi imports this without complaint. < 1280965135 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Please pastie the whole log. < 1280965198 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/1076195 < 1280965237 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ^ < 1280965257 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1280965328 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1280965337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What command did you use? < 1280965351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidden package `base'. < 1280965351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It is a member of the hidden package `base-3.0.3.2'. < 1280965359 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you SURE you have 6.*12*? < 1280965360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please check < 1280965396 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. It's definitely 6.12. < 1280965410 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The command was "make dep" in Pig09/src < 1280965422 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1280965510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A distant_figure! < 1280965516 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *shrug* try rolling back revisions, report bug < 1280965804 0 :Wamanuz3!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1280966031 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1280966111 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so there's no obvious reason for this? < 1280966125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be in the standard import path... < 1280966139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i have no clue < 1280966185 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must build a turtle fence! < 1280966240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor-P, wha? < 1280966291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's right, you know. < 1280966297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qizNQKzatXA