< 1281139321 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, best I can come up with: eyes TAC at a cats eye < 1281139469 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thick catseye stack chit ? < 1281139510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eye stack late talk cats eye < 1281139539 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281139807 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have typeset the Ed stories up to the end of Spacéd; the typography is not perfect, but pretty damn good, and I'd appreciate any comments. pikhq, Sgeo? < 1281139811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a PDF if you want. < 1281139824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email? < 1281139834 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to start tutoring soon
< 1281139838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, a few min < 1281139857 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, a few seconds actually < 1281139884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me guess; you're teaching C# to somebody online. < 1281139898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without, of course, considering whether knowing something is truly equal to being able to teach it ... < 1281140062 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he's mostly reading a book (not one that I suggested, one that he chose) and I can answer any questions, etc. etc. < 1281140076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, technical difficulties right now :/ < 1281140104 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281140128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few things are lost when converting the Ed stories to dead tree format... < 1281140133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, the lovely little links back everywhere. < 1281140175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts envisioning some system of threads embedded in books for linking
< 1281140366 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, any chance of an ePub version? < 1281140416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why bother? I am doing this for the typography. < 1281140434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about ereaders that don't respect typography, i.e. all of them, apart from the ones with a PDF reader. < 1281140455 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When this is done, if I get permission from Sam I'll publish it on Lulu in the highest-quality hardback they offer. < 1281140470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly we need to tunnel TeX-over-IRC < 1281140538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is so easy; my converter basically lets me paste the HTML in and it spits out LaTeX. < 1281140550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add chapter titles, wrap lines for my convenience, replace breaks with \pbreak, remove links... that's about it. < 1281140554 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281140559 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there any difference between \emph{c} and $c$? < 1281140597 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281140819 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aargh, Sam Hughes uses ONE em-dash in a chapter where every other dash is ens -- not even ens, just "-". < 1281140830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I meant to RESPECT that crazy, CRAZY wish? < 1281140855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will interpret it as meaning that all breaks in conversation, in quotes, should be em-dashes. < 1281141239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Sam once rant about Lulu? < 1281141470 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281141783 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281142045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps. I don't know. < 1281142106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=lulu&sitesearch=qntm.org < 1281142108 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1281142122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ed stories" is a surprisingly long book. < 1281142148 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up to the end of the first chapter of The End Of The Game, it's 107 pages. < 1281142454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://qntm.org/faq < 1281142468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't reference Lulu by name, just as "self-publishing" < 1281142489 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, major FS spoilers near that question < 1281142544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, http://pastie.org/private/chm2vxv8ylymbkzvu4qebq wthout the spoilers. You're just going to have to believe me that that's what it says < 1281142822 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you still there, or did I traumatize you? < 1281142835 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281142970 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143073 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1281143099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, it's a pretty fucking stupid remark. < 1281143106 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lulu isn't "self-publishing", it's self-printing. < 1281143120 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1281143124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that answer is very assholish for Sam. < 1281143124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the difference >.> < 1281143149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Self-publishing is like PublishAmerica. Self-printing is just: you give them the PDF, the near-bitmap (well, vector) of what you fucking want on the page, and they supply the hardback. < 1281143158 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gutenberg over TCP/IP. There's nothing disrespectful about that. < 1281143162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing loser-y. < 1281143176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deja Vu < 1281143178 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Severe Deja Vu < 1281143210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1281143236 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding the Gutenberg comment, watching someone play the game, and tutoring this person < 1281143241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I've done exactly this before < 1281143275 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. You haven't. < 1281143327 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intellectually, I know that < 1281143546 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143717 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h175.23.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281143884 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1281143887 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1281143952 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onomatopoeia Reduction < 1281143961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!simpleacro < 1281143964 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SKBKNFZB < 1281143987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sexy Klingons Bonking Knaves Nightly, Fucking Zaphod's Beetles. < 1281144015 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281144026 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: interesting analysis. < 1281144096 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Smalltalk > CSharp) ifFalse: [ Transcript show: 'Liar!' ] < 1281144140 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wanna take on a menial job for me? You'll get recognition in the colophon, which is what you like to be paid in, right? :P < 1281144147 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1281144155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colophon? < 1281144201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The little bit in small, centred text at the start of a book that tells you what typeface it uses and the copyright notes and everything. < 1281144207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1281144214 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what the menial job is < 1281144219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd put you on the Thanks page, except I don't think I should put my thanks on other people's novels. < 1281144221 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smalltalk ifTooMuchExpressionification [exit] < 1281144250 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+: < 1281144251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet, you forgot a : < 1281144255 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281144262 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281144270 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too bad blocks can't be messages, afaik < 1281144272 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much expressionification is fine in a language, but it better be terse. < 1281144274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Read my beautifully-typeset (but-not-quite-perfectly!) production of the Ed stories, and tell me every time you see a short dash - like -, not -- - in "something a character is saying, as if their speech was broken off-". The exact quote would be nice, but chapter is fine too. < 1281144288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be no long -- dashes until the later paragraphs, which should make it a whole lot easier. < 1281144302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a bonus, you get to gawp over my wonderful typesetting. :P < 1281144315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: It's 130 pages. < 1281144315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it easy to just search for -? < 1281144324 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should name Humanistic Conceit < 1281144338 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: wat < 1281144341 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the typeface, I assume) < 1281144347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Except that outside "speech", it /should/ be -. < 1281144361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, so this will be incredibly easy < 1281144370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just need to use my humanness < 1281144398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, I'm actually doing it manually. < 1281144405 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I was suggesting a name for any conceited typefaces you might make. < 1281144405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, I'll find you another menial task you can do for recognition! < 1281144411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Ah. < 1281144425 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conceited typeface? < 1281144428 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though fungot tends to be better at this sort of thing. < 1281144429 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: moral heroism, on the contrary, have omitted no pains to instruct them, blame them for giving ear to the demagogue who took pains to delude them? we must have nomination at gatton because we have launched our ship with a reconciled spirit, and have maintained that the resistance of power, and of the surrounding region. the security, which it is impossible not to observe, that the speaker must infallibly come back t < 1281144657 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281144671 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel as though I am perhaps insane. < 1281144771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: So, want to take a look at the draft version? < 1281144804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it's all the alien spider goblins' fault! < 1281144808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I.. guess < 1281144835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: GOOD! MWAHAHAHA SLAVE http://filebin.ca/fxgocj/ed.pdf < 1281144859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I included "Free, Standing" as an epilogue. It works well. < 1281144935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything works well when you have balls the size of planets. < 1281145010 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a table of contents? < 1281145034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because novels shouldn't have tables of contents. < 1281145039 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hyuk hyuk hyuk < 1281145064 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....since when did #esoteric become #typography < 1281145069 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three minutes ago. < 1281145083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: it was inevitable, really. < 1281145120 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm. I guess? I have absolutely no interest in typography. < 1281145161 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have said. < 1281146268 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1281146416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281146473 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h35.30.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281147523 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: any comments on ed.pdf? < 1281147555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so special about typesetting? < 1281147560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It all just looks like text < 1281147573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was about to ask some questions ... but never mind. < 1281147585 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were those questions? < 1281147605 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the page-big part headings are such a good idea; I think Be Here Now, for instance, should be lead into naturally, not announced. But then I can't see how to make that consistent with the other parts, which aren't named in their chapter titles. < 1281147614 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're not even seeing the point of typesetting, erm, never mind. < 1281147647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes text look pretty, I guess? < 1281147679 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you got it. < 1281147691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, he hasn't. < 1281147789 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, barring any sort of pretension < 1281147799 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea of typography is to make visually appealing type. < 1281147821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not true < 1281147823 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has never been true < 1281147859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic idea of typography is to make /readable/ type, to the finest degree possible: this ends up being visually appealing to get your mind into a consistent reading rhythm in accordance with the whitespace, etc. < 1281147888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if you -- subconsciously -- flag anything as looking "awkward", even if you don't realise it, it jarrs just a little, and all those jars add up. Leaving the door ajar. I'm very, very tired. < 1281147910 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. There's the functional aspect of typography. That's why calligraphic typefaces usually are not good for large volumes of text < 1281147915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data, SLEEP < 1281147921 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're visually appealing. < 1281147933 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: yes < 1281147939 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you hated typography :) < 1281147949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean I don't know anything about it. :) < 1281147958 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hate is too strong. I don't hate fields of study. < 1281147978 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just personally would not devote serious amounts of time to it. < 1281148089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interests are a bit arbitrary. < 1281148106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. I like fucking cows, for instance. < 1281148133 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if I could save the world with typography I would devote some time to it < 1281148146 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a world peace treaty that's so well set, no one could possibly refuse. < 1281148147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can save the world by fucking cows? < 1281148164 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the saving-the-world condition is only valid for typography < 1281148167 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for interests in general. < 1281148183 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile: < 1281148184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:52:54 fizzie: i like cows < 1281148185 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: dr. rutherford ( middlesex, brentford) rose to move as an amendment, that the nation ought to be fnord had a great battle which arrested the armies of france or austria. if his happiness coincides with the desires, of any state in the presence of dost mahomed. then came a notification that dost mahomed would not make his appearance there. in the garrets was his library, a large and growing party in the nation; and for th < 1281148228 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1281148235 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot astounds me with each sentence. < 1281148236 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: froissart, character of the scotch universities. war with china, the. < 1281148266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281148266 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches* ss wp youtube < 1281148271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style irc < 1281148271 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) < 1281148273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: duck butts < 1281148273 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: cool. does anyone know of any way to connect < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :�It basically func- < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tions like a trapdoor ten seconds forwards in time. Nothing can come back the < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way – that would result in an ešect preceding a cause, which would cause the < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1920 CHAPTER 7. THE BEST THING SINCE SLICED BREAD < 1281148275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universe as we know it to cease to exist, with potentially devastating consequences. < 1281148286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That copied badly, but yes? < 1281148298 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the - < 1281148303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like that line < 1281148308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already quoted the universe-ceasing-to-exist part ;P < 1281148324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you don't have the new version with the em dashes, I see. < 1281148341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: However, I realised that what I said isn't quite true. < 1281148349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- is correct when surrounded by spaces. < 1281148354 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be -- when speech is being cut off or resumed. < 1281148354 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth is overrated. < 1281148358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, I will upload the newest PDF for you. < 1281148367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1281148378 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: are you getting free labor out of Sgeo? o_o I find this amazing. < 1281148385 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You sure do appreciate my work. < 1281148393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: No, I did it all myself instead. But yes: credit him and he'll do anything. < 1281148402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like currency, but FREE! < 1281148405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://filebin.ca/jvtunb/ed.pdf < 1281148421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't wanna lost my place :( < 1281148436 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you win the Nobel Prize for me I'll credit you. < 1281148443 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1281148463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Note the page number. < 1281148477 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be interesting if there was only one nobel prize... like a wrestling championship belt. < 1281148494 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every year the champion had to out-academic the contestor. < 1281148657 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: if you can devise a typeface that is composed of fractals then I will be intrigued. < 1281148679 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: That's not hard. < 1281148697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just find some fractals that look like letters; I'm sure there's some sufficiently generic meta-fractal you could supply parameters to to get that. < 1281148703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even just warping an existing fractal. < 1281148704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1281148706 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well neither am I, thanks to your mom. :) < 1281148722 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM < 1281149040 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281149499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there's already a design for replacement red blood cells that are so much more efficient that if you replaced your red blood cells with them, you could hold your breath for four hours. We just can't build them. Yet." < 1281149793 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281150031 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h55.53.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: source? < 1281150164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://digitalkingdom.org/robin/tiki-index.php?page=My+Views+On+The+Future < 1281150325 0 :SevenInchBread!~adam@h178.10.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150412 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281150624 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281150677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote PipeTeX, I want you to please see this program http://sprunge.us/USOE < 1281151461 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have any suggestions < 1281151485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might be difficult to figure out without a printout) < 1281152001 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want my character to eat your arm, and then fix it, and then pay you back double (because east pays/receives double)? < 1281152040 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would you rather learn to stand on the ceiling in a different language? < 1281152057 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1281152082 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think that you are crazy. < 1281152098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I am in awe. I think. < 1281152105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perhaps I am crazy, but is that sufficiently relevent? < 1281152118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrt that paste, yes. < 1281152119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281152146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK. < 1281152178 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any suggestions or anything like that, having to do with the program? < 1281152205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, I'm afraid. < 1281152390 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows has named pipes? < 1281152400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people might say Don Knuth is also a bit crazy, and perhaps it is? < 1281152419 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't think a single person in this room is _sane_, so.. < 1281152428 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, Windows has named pipes, but you have to use the system call CreateNamedPipe and ConnectNamedPipe it is a server/client program. < 1281152436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dust Jacket Hardcover: A book bound in navy blue linen with a full-color dust jacket. < 1281152437 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case Casewrap Hardcover: Full-color, glossy cover; no dust jacket. < 1281152438 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1281152489 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But they are all in a directory called \\.\pipe or in \Device\NamedPipe in the NT object manager. (If you have the "ddd" program I wrote, you can make a list of named pipes by typing "ddd z: \Device\NamedPipe" and then "dir z:") < 1281152504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION barely knows what a named pipe is
< 1281152518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, why not use regular pipes for this? < 1281152549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Because it has to go on both sides < 1281152554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ping < 1281152645 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if zzo38 is an Order of the Stick fan
< 1281152662 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1281152941 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281152957 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Do you think this program is understandable better with a printout?) < 1281152966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know if its possible to install linux onto a partition without using a CD? < 1281153039 0 :Warrigal!~Warrigal@rrcs-70-63-156-144.midsouth.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281153058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Probably it is possibly in some way? < 1281153062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Sure, there are USB installs. < 1281153071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Plus if you have Windows, there are installs you can do that boot from Windows. < 1281153104 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha hm < 1281153149 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1281153152 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF WTF WTF < 1281153159 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe I didn't notice until just now < 1281153175 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pharo uses, for its default font for code, a non-monospaced font < 1281153179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who DOES that? < 1281153203 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Pharo? < 1281153203 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how much that subconsiously elicited some opinion about Smalltalk
< 1281153213 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, a .. Smalltalk thingy. A fork of Squeak < 1281153568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to learn about Forth programming? < 1281153632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Forth, you can lets say, to define conditions. The IF must jump to the corresponding THEN if the condition is not true, but IF is read first, so we must put a mark in there. We can make a helping word: : ORIG HERE 0 , ; < 1281153652 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now: : IF` 0=GOTO` ORIG ; : THEN` HERE SWAP ! ; < 1281153781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I found out the Horror behind Memoir. < 1281153782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To do ELSE it will be the IF jumps to ELSE if false, but ELSE jumps to THEN regardless. Since the jumps will be in the switched around order ( [IF [ELSE] THEN] ) we can do it like: : ELSE` GOTO` ORIG SWAP THEN` ; < 1281153791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you need a monospaced font for code? < 1281153799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What is the Horror behind Memoir? < 1281153816 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It won't automatically resize the page layout if you change the dimensions! Aaagh! < 1281153819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... it's what everyone's used to. I guess it makes more sense for Python than anything else < 1281153842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ... Why Python?! < 1281153847 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Non-monospaced fonts are better for prettyprinted programs, such as web program. < 1281153850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, /nobody/ is used to Smalltalk. < 1281153865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For loops, we need BEGIN ... AGAIN and BEGIN ... UNTIL and BEGIN ... WHILE ... REPEAT < 1281153891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Smalltalk being the first language I've seen non-monospaced code in made me have an artificially high opinion of it < 1281153892 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning of a loop does nothing, it is just a marker for the repeat part to jump back to, thus: : BEGIN` HER ; < 1281153899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: BEGIN` HERE ; < 1281153939 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AGAIN just jumps back: : AGAIN` GOTO` , ; < 1281153989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For UNTIL it is like AGAIN but we repeat until the condition is true, that is, repeat if the condition is false: : UNTIL` 0=GOTO` , ; < 1281154007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHILE is just like IF: : WHILE` IF` ; < 1281154060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPEAT at the end of a BEGIN ... WHILE loop is just repeat back to the beginning (unconditionally), but again the IF blocks are in backward order, thus: : REPEAT` SWAP AGAIN` THEN` ; < 1281154064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Forth is so simple. < 1281154077 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion? < 1281154089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, non-monospacing makes it harder to see . and : < 1281154140 0 :sshc_!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1281154145 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Perhaps if you want non-monospacing you can also prettyprint it like Enhanced CWEB does for C programs. (For Smalltalk, you would have to do it differently, though) < 1281154235 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281154336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Call me when this test fails, I want your machine" < 1281154493 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What test do you mean? < 1281154504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sz := 1024*1024*1024*1024. < 1281154504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self should:[Array new: sz] raise: OutOfMemory. < 1281155016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latest version of Ed stories: http://filebin.ca/mjced/ed.pdf < 1281155047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should eat something soonish
< 1281155130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Eat your arm and then make a spell to fix it? (O no, you are not that kind of monster in D&D) < 1281155216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch, on page 64: "He'd" that looks like "Hed" with a ' on top. < 1281155218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs more spacing. < 1281155303 0 :sshc_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sshc < 1281155723 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I need to add some more spacing between fucks of your mother. < 1281155730 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting kind of ridiculous < 1281155735 0 :SevenInchBread!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CakeProphet < 1281155757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet is writing this WHILE having sex with your mother, y'know. < 1281155768 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's like the fourth time today, so it's painful ... and spongy. < 1281155823 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I just inject meth directly into my penis < 1281155827 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I never orgasm. < 1281155849 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...so painful, yes. But not spongy. < 1281155875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/rabery/ed.pdf < 1281155901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The @@@o command (look up "Command o" in the index) can be used to measure the minimum width that a paragraph can fit into. < 1281155938 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is something that I believe TeX does not have built in, and that there is no way to do it using the built-in commands) < 1281155951 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the context of that command, I am a paragraph and your mom is what I'm fitting into. < 1281155984 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Do you mean *my* mom? I don't think so. < 1281155996 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281156007 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am referring to the Platonic ideal "your mom" < 1281156013 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the essence of the idea. < 1281156017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: O, OK. < 1281156020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281156032 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Platonic ideal your mom just happens to be a milf. < 1281156061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are talking about Platonic ideals about "your mom" I suppose we do not have to worry about it < 1281156353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what kind of creature my D&D character is and what kind of spell they have that nobody else would ever think of using? < 1281156411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, how many things did Smalltalk invent o.O < 1281156435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windowed GUIs, IDEs, and unit testing?!?!? < 1281156471 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Did it? Anything else? < 1281156498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[I think Windowed GUIs might be overly broad] < 1281156505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, OOP, obviously < 1281156579 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Object-oriented programming, as well as various other things that some people have heard of and other things that nobody has every heard of, has been done a lot in Forth, too, they are nothing new, Forth already can do all of these things and more, you just to implement them using simple codes like the examples I posted above (in this IRC) < 1281156700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some of the documentation of PipeTeX could be improved a bit, I might do so in the next version, as well as adding additional commands) < 1281157130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish my computer was fast enough to do HD. < 1281157140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disconnecting in 4min < 1281157142 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ForthTeX < 1281157172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That is idea! < 1281157248 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{\sf FORTH}\TeX}\ForthTeX\def < 1281157267 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{Introduction to the \ForthTeX manual}\mychapterthing < 1281157300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You mean like a stack based where each {} is an entry on the stack? < 1281157314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{...} is basically a quoting command < 1281157322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\foo precedes commands, non-commands are "printed" basically < 1281157336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps then you also need instead of \ForthTeX put a different kind of symbol meaning by name instead of by value? < 1281157339 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can pretend that \sf is like a forth word that "reads a bunch of text" and sets it in sans-serif, up to the next { or \ < 1281157350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're probably right < 1281157351 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you do < 1281157353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: O, OK. < 1281157357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{\sf FORTH}\TeX}\def\ForthTeX < 1281157362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be more like Forth < 1281157363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even < 1281157373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def\ForthTex {\sf FORTH}\TeX \end < 1281157378 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly like forth < 1281157385 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it is more like how Forth does it < 1281157388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\: \ForthTex {\sf FORTH}\TeX \; % you see where I'm going with this < 1281157394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that would be pretty darn cool... < 1281157406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, in Forth you can change things around to work in many different ways < 1281157518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that last example, { and } would be commands to enter and exit a group to save information, so that \sf switches the font of the current group, and } put thing from the group back how it was before, you could have it like a stack, and then copy information alloted at the HERE mark and move it ahead, so that then you move it back afterward, that is one way. < 1281157546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\begin < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hello, world! < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \n\@ \1 \+ \n\! < 1281157548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\n \10 \< \until < 1281157560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281157562 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably \[integer] would just push [integer]. < 1281157580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the louf typesetting system is slightly similar to this. Not really, though; it's more functional than stack. < 1281157618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, that would be how it does. And then \begin and \until inside of a definition like Forth, are just immediate words to keep track of the addresses for jumping back to, and so on < 1281157663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281157666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you would need \n\@ \10 \< < 1281157677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Otherwise you are comparing it with the address of \n) < 1281157696 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@174-16-95-127.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281157727 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think TeX is a pretty good typesetting system, however there are some weaknesses which is why I wrote PipeTeX. < 1281157782 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although, there are other ways as well, such as e-TeX, EncTeX, MLTeX, LuaTeX, XeTeX, LaTeX, and so on) < 1281157797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I wrote PipeTeX instead. < 1281157838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can use it even with later verions of TeX, possibly, too. < 1281157841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your TeX will almost certainly include e-TeX. < 1281157875 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281157905 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You might be right about that. Still, I don't know about what things e-TeX actually does. < 1281157934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with PipeTeX, I can make a paragraph box with the minimum width that it will fit, if I want to. < 1281157969 0 :deathmoniac!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281158034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e-TeX just tweaks some stuff and adds some built-in commands. < 1281158043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're probably using it without realising it < 1281158044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it. < 1281158114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5am < 1281158116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta sleep smetime < 1281158117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometime < 1281158223 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck wont usb-creator-gtk use a goddamn minimal iso >_< < 1281158287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION returneth
< 1281158477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: use unetbootin < 1281158484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust me, it's a lot more pleasant < 1281158530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God it's nice having things to *go* to. < 1281159007 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make me sleep ghost of sgeo < 1281159026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NETE < 1281159035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1281159039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLEEP < 1281159277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but- < 1281159280 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only /just/ brightened < 1281159304 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay but < 1281159307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i leave you with this < 1281159308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/rabery/ed.pdf < 1281159328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you will possibly enjoy the viewing of this memoir-typesetting of a sam hughes story. < 1281159341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oooh, ed. < 1281159349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeppers < 1281159353 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeset the nicest i can < 1281159357 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments on a postcard or to the logs < 1281159360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1281159363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1281159365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281159368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nicely done. < 1281159597 0 :cal153!~cal@static-216-18-6-116.gtcust.grouptelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281159864 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281160084 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281160452 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww bye alise :( < 1281160548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST ... WRITE ... MICROCOSM ... VFS ... < 1281160563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281160599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives Gregor a time injection
< 1281160616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://codu.org/projects/microcosm/ < 1281160624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An insane project that AnMaster and pikhq forced me to start. < 1281160638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time injection sounds like something from dr who < 1281160640 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started it under the condition that I wouldn't have to do this shit. < 1281160641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We like insanity. < 1281160642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281160659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i dont get it < 1281160661 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whatever < 1281160663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt matter < 1281160663 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281160674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit busy trying to prevent myself from becoming a complete hikikomori ATM, so. :P < 1281160740 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other ways to combine Forth with TeX, as well. One idea is, add a \forth command to TeX, which means switch into Forth mode (TeX's eyes no longer see the file), and it is processed by Forth, until Forth executes a [TEX] command to switch back. It would normally be a outer command, so things like \def\xyz{\forth 1 3 + . [TEX]} will just make \xyz to expand as "1 3 + . [TEX]" and then switch to Forth mode the next time TeX's eyes would < 1281160903 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then have ASSIGN-GULLET ASSIGN-STOMACH ASSIGN-INTESTINES to define TeX control sequences with functions of Forth codes assigned to them to work in that part of the processing < 1281160966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281160996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then TEX-HOOK to hook various parts of the processing of TeX < 1281161254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you could include a file of Forth codes by typing \expandafter\forth\input < 1281162368 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281162858 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281163721 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281164830 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281165193 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165271 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281165337 0 :MizardX!~MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165593 0 :cheater99!~cheater@ip-80-226-46-103.vodafone-net.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1281165775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281165781 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281166557 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281167665 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281167672 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1281167692 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281167707 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1281167907 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281167999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281168000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281168380 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281171205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281171892 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281172185 0 :cal153!~cal@static-216-18-6-116.gtcust.grouptelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281172479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281174752 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281174785 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175162 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281175167 0 :lifthrasiir!OeyNFeDn@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175322 0 :ronnie!~ronnie@CPE00119575c685-CM001404962f58.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175515 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175550 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281175559 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281175565 0 :ronnie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281175854 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@m-131.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281176411 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281176425 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281176912 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281177769 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281177905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178418 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h11.46.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178685 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281178853 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281178907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet! < 1281179538 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281180127 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281180320 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, where did you leave it? < 1281180423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1281180614 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281181653 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281183125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost marble < 1281183208 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281184315 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-38-87.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281184330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281184387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that it would take over 333 days to read all of Schlock Mercenary on Archive Binge's fastest setting.
< 1281185562 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186084 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281186139 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@nat-wireless-guest-reg-158-122.bu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186343 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-2-82.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281186487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281186488 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe one could name kim deal, too. < 1281186496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281186496 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1281186507 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style discworld < 1281186507 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: discworld (a subset of Terry Pratchett's Discworld books) < 1281186509 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot < 1281186509 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ' most people do,' said < 1281186847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Said who? < 1281186848 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there was a short man in a suit of armour. there was a pulse there, but that's only because he wants to show he's willing. very willing lad, brutha." < 1281187258 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281187383 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281190680 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281192952 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1281193442 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281194196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the subject of urgency < 1281194645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So, memoir really sucks in one way. < 1281194902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memoir? < 1281195197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only LaTeX document class that matters. < 1281195216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does books, articles, memos, notes, poetry, ... < 1281195256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its manual is a veritable tome of knowledge; a complete book with beautiful little miniatures of various page layouts and the corresponding code, and such. It contains much history about typography and information on why you might want to do things certain ways, but also includes all the information you need to completely change the entire page layout, just using memoir's commands. < 1281195265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also backwards-compatible with the article class and probably others. < 1281195305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing that sucks about it is that if you use a non-standard paper size, I don't think it has a way to automatically "scale" the proportions of a built-in page layout for a similar size, down to fit your page. < 1281195314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you have to specify all the values manually, which is... not easy if you're not good at that. < 1281195865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: \enlargethispage{3\baselineskip} % is this considered okay if i have e.g. an epilogue which i want to fit on one page rather than having a few dangling lines on the next page? < 1281195905 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Wellllllll it's really a hack and not very nice to do that but I guess you could get away with it < 1281195913 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you don't want to solve it this second < 1281195930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: can't really be solved; the only thing i could do is make the "chapter" heading appear higher on the page < 1281195935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not certain how to do that with memoir < 1281195946 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: \usepackage{fullpage} :)))))))) < 1281195954 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{savetrees} < 1281195963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already committed such a sin once, anyway: < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\enlargethispage{2\baselineskip} < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\enlargethispage{2\parskip} < 1281195970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\pbreak < 1281195987 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear lord just use the above packages you will not be disappointed < 1281195987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To make the \pbreak (basically a centred \asterism with some space around it) fit on the end of the page, rather than the beginning of the next page. < 1281195992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: nothx < 1281195994 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use *one of the above packages < 1281195995 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1281195997 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not???? < 1281196005 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y do u h8 on savetrees < 1281196007 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not like trees < 1281196014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate trees and i like whitespace :) < 1281196024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The goal of the savetrees package is to pack as much text as possible onto each page < 1281196024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A < 1281196025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a L TEX document. Admittedly, this makes the document far less attractive." < 1281196026 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even they admit it! < 1281196044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"• At most two authors are listed. The remainder are replaced by “et al.”" < 1281196045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that's EVIL! < 1281196047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1281196054 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281196065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, savetrees is like a tree nazi < 1281196067 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage{fullpage} < 1281196072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DECREASE! EVERYTHING!" < 1281196091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: but dammit, I like my whitespace :) < 1281196101 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just uses a full page < 1281196105 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do other things < 1281196105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: anyway i'm not fucking greatly with layout until I figure out how to get memoir working with a smaller size < 1281196110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepackage[oneletterperpage]{killallthestupidtrees} < 1281196121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but memoir purposefully pushes the chapter headings down < 1281196125 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hahaha < 1281196128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for aesthetic reasons < 1281196134 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm aware < 1281196144 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: How about you just ignore it for now < 1281196145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: you got any idea how to give memoir a custom paper size and give it one of its default layouts and tell it "go scale"? < 1281196153 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1281196155 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too scared to define my own values, the default ones are fine < 1281196156 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't want to do that < 1281196157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: dammit < 1281196160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i do though :) < 1281196164 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you don't < 1281196169 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're going to care about aesthetics < 1281196185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about aesthetics; I'm just not very good at specifying arbitrary values like that. < 1281196196 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They aren't arbitrary < 1281196196 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what trim paper size does The Quadrescence Press use? :P < 1281196208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're arbitrary to me, though; i.e. i just see a number box < 1281196215 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know they are to you < 1281196217 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they aren't < 1281196235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course, I agree. < 1281196236 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: finish your document in its entirety then worry about this stuff < 1281196241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: it is finished < 1281196249 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh okay, do you want to send it to me < 1281196256 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :D < 1281196257 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to screw with it < 1281196264 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I c. < 1281196275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellll okay but I reserve the right to then screw with it again completely < 1281196298 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just yet another typesetting of someone else's work because I am ~not cool enough to write~ < 1281196306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tars it up
< 1281196310 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1281196326 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tell you exactly what to do, it's just hard for "visual things" < 1281196331 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like visual basic < 1281196342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1281196366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: do you have the Minion Pro package installed? < 1281196377 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1281196384 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1281196389 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/wohxwx/ed.tar < 1281196392 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god you're using minion < 1281196398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pdflatex ed.tex", etc. < 1281196401 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: is that a bad thing? :D < 1281196408 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1281196413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(( < 1281196417 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been playing with other typefaces for it < 1281196427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minion is just my fallback so I don't have to look at computer modern when tweaking stuff < 1281196434 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's wrong with minion? < 1281196453 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with CM? < 1281196473 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not exactly ideal for long prose, like all didone/modern typefaces imo < 1281196485 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, what's wrong with minion? < 1281196527 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing is ``wrong'' with it, I just don't really like when people use it. I mean, it's a pretty OK typeface, maybe it's that Wolfram Research uses it < 1281196561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't aware that Wolfram used it. < 1281196573 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the kerning of some characters is weird < 1281196578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: otoh, bringhurst uses it < 1281196595 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure a lot of people do because it makes them Hip and Different < 1281196601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, kerning is pissing me off right now; TeX is stupid enough that microtype suffers, because you can't disable kerning selectively properly < 1281196607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only when it's needed and shit) < 1281196631 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minion makes you Hip and Different? gee, I really don't hang out in the kind of places where I'd find that kind of information :P < 1281196634 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: did you try \usepackage[bitstream]{mathdesign} < 1281196640 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the package < 1281196648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dislike bitstream fonts < 1281196669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Schola or whatever they're calling it these days -- the New Century Schoolbook-based one -- worked okay < 1281196704 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You dislike the fonts in the package I suggested? < 1281196737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably [bitstream] is the Bitstream Vera fonts? < 1281196746 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, definitely not < 1281196751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually got mathdesign installed, it seems; I'll rectify that. < 1281196754 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitstream Vera is not my cup of tea < 1281196766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Huh; I wonder which then. < 1281196779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitstream don't have any other Free with a capital E fonts afaik. < 1281196795 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281196798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Documents/ed$ aptitude search mathdesign < 1281196798 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@dinky:~/Documents/ed$ < 1281196800 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffffffff < 1281196807 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\usepacakge[charter]{mathdesign} < 1281196811 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah bitstream charter < 1281196832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bitstream Charter is a typeface optimized for printing on the low-resolution 300 dpi laser printers of the 1980s." xP < 1281196847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blurgh; I need to isntall mathdesign now < 1281196857 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can think of alternatives < 1281196858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, no, wait < 1281196862 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use the charter package < 1281196893 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: unacceptable; doesn't have Greek < 1281196899 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1281196900 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1281196908 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: I can't find file `grmn1200'. -- oh, do I need to delete the .aux crap? < 1281196913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :texlive-fonts-extra in ubuntu has mathdesign.sty. < 1281196929 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Greek for exactly one letter, heh: < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was expecting orange light to fall across us as < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we arrived in the {\greektext e}Eri system at a relative speed small < 1281196935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to make it appear that we were at a standstill." < 1281196955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: well, it certainly isn't telling me it has greek < 1281196960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after rming the aux files < 1281196998 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well remove the \greekletter crap right now then which is probably specific to the minion package anyway < 1281197042 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it compiled for me with mathdesign < 1281197043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: no it is not < 1281197046 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the babel package < 1281197047 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for textssc < 1281197054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the standard way to do these things ... < 1281197061 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe scc, i don't remember < 1281197083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't now of babel, really? < 1281197095 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know of babel, I just don't typeset greek < 1281197102 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xP < 1281197187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: what latex font do you think is the most similar to georgia? < 1281197192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the original typeface the text was set in < 1281197222 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um charter is kind of close < 1281197272 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fouriernc? < 1281197290 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear: none of these have Greek. < 1281197301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe math-mode Greek, but not actual-text Greek. < 1281197327 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Schola is better than New Century Schoolbook so tgschola > fouriernc < 1281197341 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a pretty close match, Georgia is just ... plumper and less serify. Damn, I need to learn the terminology. < 1281197393 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you just use Georgia with xelatex? < 1281197427 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :georgia is designed for screen and, I dunno, I've never liked XeLaTeX much < 1281197446 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you try \usepackage{kerkis}? < 1281197467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR: LaTeX Error: File `kerkis.sty' not found. < 1281197478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to find what texlive package it's in; sigh < 1281197485 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll upload the pdf < 1281197489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1281197490 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can look before you go check it out < 1281197496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/textssc/textsc/ btw if not using minion < 1281197536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's based on Bookman? skeptical, but ok < 1281197546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX Gyre Bonum is probably better < 1281197550 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as Bookmans go < 1281197551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll see < 1281197558 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.file-pasta.com/file/0/ed.pdf < 1281197604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that capital E is /freaky/ < 1281197623 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha quit looking at the giant E at the start < 1281197628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281197633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: i'm going to try xelatex just to see < 1281197749 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Wow, \LaTeX looks fucked up in Georgia. The a is lowercase. < 1281197758 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281197774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, XeLaTeX doesn't do \textsc properly, it seems; actually, wait ... does Georgia even have small caps? < 1281197785 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not who knows < 1281197831 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Libertine O looks nice ... < 1281197841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but nothing like Georgia :P < 1281197845 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pah < 1281197847 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i nearly nearly give up < 1281197869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how many badnesses it complains about < 1281197870 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so bad. < 1281197946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Maybe I'll just convert it to lout and become a hermit and bang sticks and rocks together to make runes. < 1281197957 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1281197958 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it < 1281197995 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281198003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if TeX Gyre Pagella has less awful quote marks than URW Palatino. < 1281198153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, LuaTeX can't even load microtype. < 1281198172 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281198200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: wait, there's an opentype to t1 converter, isn't there? < 1281198215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only works for minion < 1281198227 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're thinking about converting georgia to something usable with latex < 1281198231 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop thinking < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : base=$(basename "$font" .otf) < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cfftot1 "$font" "pfb/$base.pfb" < 1281198246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : t1dotlessj "pfb/$base.pfb" "pfb/${base}LCDFJ.pfb" < 1281198254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: why :D microtype support and the like? < 1281198279 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minion could only be converted because someone spent a lot of time tweaking things, preparing fontinst files, and making a .sty file < 1281198286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281198296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was only musing < 1281198314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should just email the author and ask him what he'd like it set in. < 1281198489 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just forget about it and set his new novel but i'd have to read it first < 1281198492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just give up on typesetting < 1281198494 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and become a hermit < 1281198496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sleep forever < 1281198500 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. let's go with that one < 1281198925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb: rebooting into windows to see if it can handle HD < 1281198946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281199110 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281199590 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5608.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281200901 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281203622 0 :AnMaster!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1281204652 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281205026 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281205295 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281205539 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1281205786 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281207504 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1281207555 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Windows can decode a "900p" Blu-Ray rip and have it almost synched up with the audio. < 1281207600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that Linux audio still suuuuuuuuuuucks shiiiiiit < 1281207616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only conclude that good God Ubuntu sucks at audio. < 1281207635 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the *default settings* for ALSA and it just plain works. < 1281207635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a more positive note, thx coppro for making me decide to, uh, obtain Stargate Universe. < 1281207646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Air pts. 1 and 2 are anything to go by it's gonna be good. < 1281207689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately the Blu-Ray rip only has up to episode 10; apparently the season was released in two halves, both the price of a regular season (!) on Blu-Ray. So that sucks; I can't find the second half in such quality. < 1281207721 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: SyFy tends to air seasons in two parts. < 1281207779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second part of the season only finished a few weeks ago. < 1281207779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1281207805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so that thing I saw on Sky marked as the "finale" was actually the finale of the first half? Interesting. < 1281207814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The two releases are marked "1.0" and "1.5", which is a bit strange, but there you go. < 1281207830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright then; now if only the 1080p 37" TV was in /here/. And I had a machine that can decode it with _perfect_ AV sync. < 1281207835 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, that's a very SCI-FI CHANNEL (not "SyFy" bleh) thing to do. < 1281207846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pronounce Syfy as "Siffy" to protest the rename. < 1281207858 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love it. < 1281207859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...new, to Sci-Fi." "You mean 'Siffy'." < 1281207884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "siffih". So it's awkward to pronounce. < 1281207888 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.211 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281207951 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently "1.5" was released in July. < 1281207954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... < 1281207960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few few weeks ago. < 1281207989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be able to find HD TV dumps; not a Blu-Ray rip yet. < 1281207999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Blu-Ray "Region B" (??) the full-season Blu-Ray came out in July too. Region A has to wait until 2011, but they got 1.0 and 1.5, while region B didn't. < 1281208025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My anal file-naming scheme has come under attack by the evil creators of Stargate Universe. < 1281208025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, where is oerjan when you need him < 1281208041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1.1�1.2 ???.mkv" (Yes, that is an en-dash.) < 1281208055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's two separate episodes, "Air (Part 1)" and "Air (Part 2)", but aired as one continuous one. < 1281208060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, I would just title it "Air". < 1281208068 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's a part 3 which was aired /after/ these. < 1281208073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, for me the plain alsa with no pulseaudio just works. Even on computers with stuff like Intel HDA instead of my sb live card < 1281208082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pulseaudio is what causes issues IME < 1281208083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ALSA had the AV sync problems just as badly. < 1281208092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to try OSSv4, then hang myself. < 1281208104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that I never had... Weird latency issues I guess < 1281208121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I ate some fun food today. < 1281208158 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hissing cockroaches? < 1281208173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punsch-roll <-- this very Swedish pastry is as noted in the article called "vacuum cleaner" here. Well, they had an extra long version at a café I visited today... Guess what they called it? < 1281208175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fun"; that is some definition of fun, "hissing cockroaches". < 1281208185 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Black hole? < 1281208187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :central vacuum cleaner < 1281208193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/central_vacuum_cleaner.jpg < 1281208197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took that with phone camera < 1281208200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Clearly Ubuntu managed to fucking break ALSA. < 1281208204 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not... hilarious. < 1281208207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes doggy bag next to it. It was a bit too large. < 1281208214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I said fun, not hilarious < 1281208223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You know, I don't think the _entire_ blame lies on Ubuntu's shoulders. < 1281208230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, plus, Swedish humour. It exists but is incompatible with you. < 1281208237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They may be slightly incompetent, but you gotta admit, Linux audio isn't known to be very worky. < 1281208249 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281208258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Here's the thing: *I have yet to have issues with Linux audio*. < 1281208266 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like getting pulseaudio and timidity to work together < 1281208278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I only ever had problems when pulse came out < 1281208279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Here, YOU'RE the Stargate expert (Sgeo doesn't count), YOU name my file. (This is the most important thing.) < 1281208284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good hardware. Good luck. < 1281208285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux 2.2, 2.4, and 2.6. OSS, pre-in-kernel ALSA, 2.6 ALSA. < 1281208287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can strongly recommend that café for anyone in Sweden that happens to pass by the town of Vara (located along E20 between Göteborg and Stockholm). < 1281208296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've used it on a *lot* of hardware. < 1281208301 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anot sure what was so wrong with oss or alsa < 1281208310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: nothing at all. < 1281208313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, plenty. < 1281208316 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: call that one Vacuum and the other one Air :P < 1281208319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just nothing that could be fixed with a new sound server above them. < 1281208319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just haven't used any of the freaking bizarre audio abstraction layers... < 1281208329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: wat xD < 1281208334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you count arts, which KDE 3 demanded. < 1281208343 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the first parts are more about a lack of air :P < 1281208345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go with "1.1�1.2 Air (Parts 1 & 2)", but I'll FEEL BAD ABOUT IT. < 1281208363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Gee, just go and spoil it; I was expecting them to suffocate and the rest of the series just to be footage of dead people. < 1281208381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or colonise the planet and live peacefully with a few minor incidents, as they try to come to terms with their loneliness. < 1281208399 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGU actually has significant attrition :) < 1281208435 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me not to talk to you about anything I haven't finished watching/reading/etc. yet. :) < 1281208441 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPOILERS: Destiny's destination is an alternate earth, where they will pick up more people and then leave again < 1281208454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you /are/ joking. < 1281208459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: Here's the thing: *I have yet to have issues with Linux audio*. <-- the only issues I had so far has been with pulseaudio or jack. The latter is mostly my own fault for even trying to use that. Of course it works very well once it's set up. But the problem is that, setting it up. < 1281208470 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: maybe < 1281208477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pulseaudio.... well I wouldn't know where to start with describing the problems < 1281208479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I hate you, because now I have to look it up. < 1281208484 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: rofl < 1281208490 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kidding < 1281208497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's from a book < 1281208498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Hyperventilation over! < 1281208503 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a SG book) < 1281208515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding abstraction servers to Linux audio is an absolutely retarded idea. < 1281208519 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do people love doing it? < 1281208540 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can't think of any other ideas that sound so good but are really so bad < 1281208553 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281208554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\expandafter\forth\input < 1281208556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't work < 1281208582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it kill them to just make the audio interface *work well*? < 1281208588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah... < 1281208609 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate justification for "1.1�1.2 Air (Parts 1 & 2)": En-dash to separate range is the Right Way to do things; series number must be included since it sometimes differs e.g. Voyager's "Unimatrix Zero"; the episodes are billed (Part N) for N in 1,2,3; there are two parts, and we should not insert "and" because it is more metasyntactic punctuation than actually part of the title. < 1281208610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, just use dmix in case of lack of hardware mixing (which is the case for most hardware these days) < 1281208621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use OSSv4. < 1281208630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh snap, no, that would actually *work!* < 1281208642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even ALSA, which *is* the audio interface for most Linux systems, has trouble with this... < 1281208645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You're really writing ForthTeX? < 1281208656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tried OSSv4? You'll like it. < 1281208658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the HELL should you need a user library to just make the freaking audio interface work at all? < 1281208659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mention OSSv4? < 1281208661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it's more work, and it would probably not work out of box, unless it provides alsa compatible APIs < 1281208669 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It does. < 1281208673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's nothing that does not support OSS. < 1281208675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. Still more work < 1281208680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In fact, you can also make libalsa /output to OSS/. < 1281208683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, alsamixer? (sorry, bad joke) < 1281208691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Seriously. That's 100% compatibility. < 1281208694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because OSS is the audio interface on all *other* UNIX systems. < 1281208698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281208699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can use the slightly-worse OSSv4 fake libalsa. < 1281208702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I am not writing ForthTeX. It is just something I thought about while sleeping yesterday < 1281208705 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(excepting OS X) < 1281208715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, for me as it happens, alsa actually works well. Both on desktop and laptop < 1281208717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Tempting, but ALSA "just works" here. < 1281208727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue why, it's just the way it is < 1281208728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, you use Gentoo. You _have_ to break things on a regular basis. < 1281208734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do it. < 1281208736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281208745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Things don't break here. < 1281208748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281208766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, actually, I manage to break X every now and then.) < 1281208795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, things didn't break on Gentoo. I think I had to report way more bugs under ubuntu so far than on gentoo. And I used gentoo for like 5-6 years. Ubuntu for about one < 1281208801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Perhaps instead of {...} pushing a "formatting stack", it could instead push a code block/quotation a la Joy. Then \sf would mean "sans-serif for the rest of the 'program'", where "program" is like a scope; i.e. it'd end after you finish executing the {...}. < 1281208813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although perhaps the pushing-a-formatting-stack would be a saner idea. < 1281208816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch I think is lowest but I used that less on non-servers than either of the other < 1281208821 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that ForthTeX is a sane idea in the first place. < 1281208823 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this might work: \forth ' [TEX] ASSIGN-GULLET unforth [TEX] \def\inputforth#1{\forth\input #1 \unforth} < 1281208826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hard to tell < 1281208831 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I don't know about this way either) < 1281208833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only like half a year on main desktop < 1281208844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's the boring way, though. It should be a Forth integrated into the TeX, not TeX with Forth support. < 1281208846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, Gentoo is a reasonably stable system. Something that appears to have a bleeding-edge philosophy. < 1281208854 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, of course it is not sane idea..... < 1281208865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so yeah, gentoo's issue is actually the compile time. It _breaks_ less than other distros IME < 1281208875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's Gentoo's /users/ that break it. < 1281208882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yes some. I agree < 1281208897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But..... < 1281208901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE INSANITY!!!!!! < 1281208910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, like those with insane CFLAGS. But well... I only know one such user, and he started using sane cflags later on < 1281208916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You could use {...} as strings that way, too. < 1281208918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1281208924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{sansserif} \fontname < 1281208926 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1281208968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would forthtex be like luatex? Or would it use a separate syntax? Or is it something like literal forth programming? < 1281208981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think such things can work unless it is entirely remade such that it is not TeX anymore < 1281208986 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ForthTeX wouldn't really be TeX at all. < 1281208989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281208994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But using \forth to switch works better in my opinion < 1281208999 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my view, "\foo" would be execute-Forth-word-foo. < 1281209006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal words would just be "text" typeset. < 1281209011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is an issue there. If you don't pass some test suite, iirc Knuth gets angry about you using the name TeX < 1281209014 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ would push a new "formatting stack" < 1281209030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so \sf would say, change the font to sans-serif < 1281209031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the top formatting stack < 1281209032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it is a registered trademark or such, if it is, you would need to follow it < 1281209034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} would pop it < 1281209035 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, exactly, and it is also something I agree with as well, even if Knuth doesn't get angry < 1281209041 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's just a codename :P < 1281209048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was more like TeX when I thought of it... < 1281209048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah right < 1281209060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def \ForthTeX {\sf FORTH}\TeX \end < 1281209072 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So \def would read a word, and get \ForthTeX back. < 1281209077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start defining just like Forth... < 1281209097 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that is like Forth, but then it wouldn't be TeX < 1281209098 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then we have the \pushfmt instruction, the \sf instruction, the "FORTH" text, the \popfmt instruction, the \TeX instruction, and we stop. < 1281209116 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "FORTH" text would be handled like numbers in Forth; "TEXT" instruction followed by the text, just like "2" -> "LITERAL 2" or whatever. < 1281209121 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Fine; FORTHSeT. < 1281209124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ForthSeT. < 1281209164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could have a command ending with {, actually. < 1281209174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\def \boldblock {\bf \end < 1281209176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then < 1281209180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\boldblock LOL BOLD} < 1281209188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since { and } would just be sugar for \pushfmt and \popfmt... < 1281209279 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea using \forth to switch, it has something like LuaTeX, but not quite, because TeX doesn't even see your Forth program, it is just switched, instead of using TeX's eyes/mouth/body you use the Forth and then it go back after, so you would define a Forth code in outer usually, and integrate it using ASSIGN-GULLET and so on < 1281209300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well possibly as other commands such as TEX-PARSE TEX-SEND-TOKEN and so on < 1281209336 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes your way, can be called ForthSeT, it might work < 1281209518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I never modified TeX (although I have read parts of the TeX source codes to clarify things), I wrote PipeTeX, which should be workable using any version of TeX, without having to modify each one. < 1281209545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone recommend me a Linux distro to toy around with that isn't Gentoo or Arch. < 1281209553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has officially reached my Ultimately Annoyed state. < 1281209557 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The logo for PipeTeX isn't as complicated as things like LaTeX and AMS-TeX and so on, just {Pipe\TeX}) < 1281209566 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linux-From-Scratch < 1281209578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. :P < 1281209585 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Linux-From-UnScratch < 1281209589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1281209596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{\sf FORTH}\TeX: the only logo that matters! < 1281209840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does such a thing as Linux-From-Unscratch exist? < 1281209851 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281209981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people say that literate programming forces you to document your program and therefore write a better code, but that isn't true at all. What it does do, however, is it makes it much easier to document your code! < 1281210022 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// assign 4 to i < 1281210045 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281210073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :antidippenders; < 1281210083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hm, where is oerjan when you need him < 1281210102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh yeah. Interesting turn of events in IWC eh? < 1281210140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it raises a lot of questions though < 1281210155 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Not like that, though. Not like typing "// assign 4 to i", that is clear by the printout might be something like "i <-- 4" you can already see it assigns 4 to i < 1281210175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being sarcastic < 1281210176 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1281210177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like why the heck has shakespeare not given any indication of being from the past before < 1281210310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm not sure i _like_ this idea of explaining things "rationally" this way, it takes away the mystery. in fact that was one of the things i didn't like about the end of the Ed stories < 1281210375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but... that's because you're you. No offence. < 1281210376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/20100805_001-009.jpg http://zem.fi/~fis/20100806_001-007.jpg < 1281210398 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word for a random, unexplained thread that holds the whole story together without any apparent justification is a "plot hole". < 1281210410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it became serious and logical rather than crazy and whimsical) < 1281210422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, on hotel wlan. Will take ages to load < 1281210425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: erm < 1281210431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it became that since Be Here Now < 1281210437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would take some pics through the window, except it is fairly boring < 1281210440 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281210442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now which one was that < 1281210444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any grand view < 1281210448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the /first long story/ < 1281210454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Slack < 1281210458 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't serious by Be Here Now, it definitely was by Spac�d < 1281210463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait, is that like .fi dreamhack or such? < 1281210469 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There are _small.jpg variants, but... < 1281210470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thank you for an answer that gives my memory absolutely nothing to remember it by < 1281210487 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Be Here Now -- time travelling, Kerrig mountain facility < 1281210488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a literate programming system contains features that can be useful regardless of the amount of documentation you are including, such as the index and table of contents, and code chunks..... < 1281210499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spac�d -- whoops Epsilon Eridriani doesn't exist < 1281210501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't remember what DreamHack is; gaming or demoscene? < 1281210507 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Eridani < 1281210516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gaming iirc < 1281210543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, this used to be a demoscene event. Nowadays it's a hybrid sort of thing. < 1281210564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1281210577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, anyhow i liked the whimsical ones best < 1281210581 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the PipeTeX codes, I don't think I need to document every section, some should be self-explanatory, and I don't need to document it as m much as some people do, but there is still some missing, which I can add in the next version < 1281210595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, so let's say Spac�d, since Be Here Now isn't that serious. it's lighthearted, but not the same sort of jokey story that the short stories are at the start, when setting the stage in the first two paragraphs. after that, it's serious (the raretl ivehf) < 1281210616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Y'know what else would be nice? A short story collection containing of qntm.org < 1281210621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opening stories haven't got much substance really and are really stage-setters < 1281210625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*really just stage-setters < 1281210632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be Here Now is short compared to the others < 1281210646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so really, the Ed stories are serious for a majority of their length < 1281210666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Eh wot? < 1281210677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I can't use Slack. Actually I'm not sure what I can use: I need a recent kernel to support my Ethernet. < 1281210685 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: All the short stories on qntm that aren't part of a story. < 1281210687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The last Ubuntu didn't support the card. < 1281210689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In what? < 1281210694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Then upgrade the kernel. < 1281210701 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typeset as a single volume? < 1281210703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can't do that without internet. < 1281210705 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1281210709 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd like to finish the Ed stories, first. < 1281210720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can't you do it with a DVD, or something like that? < 1281210724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And that includes Free, Standing as an epilogue. < 1281210728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No optical drive. < 1281210734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, okay, took some (free hand) pics < 1281210736 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The next Sam Hughes thing I'm likely to typeset is Fine Structure, but I'll have to read it first. < 1281210738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Can you use USB? < 1281210746 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. But at that point I get too bored. < 1281210746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'll see if I can do anything usable with it < 1281210757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw those images were not panos right? < 1281210758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:18:04 you're only allowed to use alise's haskell on pro-GNOME operating systems. < 1281210758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281210758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then but something changed in tone when the andromedans got introduced. < 1281210759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's why. < 1281210762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1281210763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were < 1281210780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the dark one looks much more like fish eye < 1281210810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm. < 1281210813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's hardly the ending though. anyway what would you have preferred, he having destroyed Andromeda and nothing coming of it? what would be the point of that having happened, then? < 1281210822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 9 and 7 pics; taken with the phone, can't really switch lenses on that one. (Well, maybe with some sort of adapter.) < 1281210831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, rightr < 1281210833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1281210839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is going to be my real camera < 1281210845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll transfer it in a few seconds < 1281210859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if I can make a pano out of it < 1281210862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Perhaps Tyro? < 1281210887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm here with the N900 (64k compo is about to start in 7 minutes), so I won't probably even try to look at any large images before I get out. < 1281210899 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I started reading Tyro and concluded Sam was right, it's crap writing. < 1281210921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'll scale them down. I'm on bad wlan < 1281210921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quite like the concept. But yeah, Sam has definitely improved. < 1281210937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The Fourth-And-A-Halfth Planet I would do something with if I understood it one damn bit. < 1281210938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bit Rate=24 Mb/s Tx-Power=15 dBm < 1281210941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Link Quality=38/70 Signal level=-72 dBm < 1281210943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1281210948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, huge amount (over 15) of 4k entries this year here. < 1281210956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh God I love that one. < 1281210975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: WLAN here is so bad, I'm just using this 384k 3G. < 1281210996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't the n900 supports more than that? < 1281211014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, besides all those computers down the stairs look like they use ethernet < 1281211035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'd need to pay more for using more than that. :p < 1281211044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:39:21 I'm trying to read the source for Epigram (literate Haskell). I should probably stop because I don't know enough about type theory to tell when they're joking or not. < 1281211044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just Conor. < 1281211051 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sit back and enjoy the ride; not even he knows. < 1281211054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sucks thern < 1281211055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1281211065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this wlan is free when you have a hotel room < 1281211066 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.e-pig.org/darcs/Pig09/src/Epitome.pdf, for anyone who wants to gawp. < 1281211091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The wlan here is free, but it's too sucky to use. < 1281211098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering user/pw I very much doubt they could prevent someone over the street from using it... < 1281211105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and auth over http < 1281211126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just meant that 3G speeds >384k would mean a more costly mobile subscription thing. < 1281211177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway it will be below my usual standard... ISO400 < 1281211184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually use ISO64... < 1281211216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:47:25 and I noticed yesterday that it didn't like "movie" < 1281211216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in en-GB it is "film". < 1281211218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone with a computer place (and the associated ethernet switch port) is supposed to be using it, but there's still overcrowding, and I guess they just don't pay that much attention to the wlan. < 1281211224 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"movie" is en-usism < 1281211269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:52:00 Fine, DOCTOR WHO. Anyway, I've noticed that happens a lot -- you learn a word, then suddenly hear it used. It's probably some kind of psychological trick, like, you heard the word before, but you didn't know what it meant, so you didn't retain the memory the same way. < 1281211269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baader-meinhof < 1281211270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, most UK people I know use movie too < 1281211275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed. < 1281211276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on IRC < 1281211291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they probably say "gonna" at least occasionally IRL too. < 1281211297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called osmosis < 1281211317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, but I strongly suspect this dict is based on something like a too-old-to-be-copyrighted word list + some new stuff added in. < 1281211338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering other cases < 1281211348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I noticed before but I can't recall right atm < 1281211410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Factual data cannot be copyrighted, though a specific presentation can be. < 1281211451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: compilation copyright? < 1281211456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1281211460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1281211465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least somewhere < 1281211468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1281211517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:39:00 I can't eat kittens‽ Even ones that aren't my pet? < 1281211517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281211540 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:56:51 Well, now my kitten has died of terminal stupidity. < 1281211566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eating kittens is just plain wrong! And no one should do it! EVER! < 1281211613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lex5sz.jpg < 1281211617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues the tradition of quoting quotes without having seen the original
< 1281211815 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How good is Slack's driver support? < 1281211966 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281212054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: >_> < 1281212084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does FreeBSD have a livecd these days? < 1281212120 0 :RoxFox64!~RoxFox64@66-168-215-170.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281212131 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, sweet < 1281212134 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=freebsd+livecd < 1281212138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(kidding) :) < 1281212149 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here still using befunge? < 1281212165 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yo. < 1281212166 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212195 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: he was lounging in a chair surrounded by scrolls and scraps of paper. it had worked. he'd always been aware of it? < 1281212200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: Yes. < 1281212206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it was fragrant with the scent of abomination."; new favourite quote. < 1281212210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1281212211 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld* europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube < 1281212227 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :207| pikhq: it was fragrant with the scent of abomination. hear a speech declaring a holy war, is the man insane? some idiot missionary gets himself killed, some man writes some gibberish about the shape of a dragon, wonse?" < 1281212278 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is it possible to have a remote swap file, or does linux prevent it? < 1281212293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: well, it's a swap partition. so, yes, like this: < 1281212301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use NFS to mount the remote host. < 1281212308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a "foo" file on it. < 1281212312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount -t swap -o loop foo < 1281212315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however you mount swap these days < 1281212320 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sweet. I managed to find small(But, old) interpreter that turns befunge to c. Then I made a script for linux, and a batch for windows to compile it, run it and dispose of it. < 1281212331 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: It doesn't turn Befunge into C. < 1281212337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It bundles Befunge code with an interpreter. < 1281212374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: thanks I was trying to use mkswap and swapon.. maybe mount -t swap is what I needed < 1281212407 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I haven't bothered to look through the source fully. I just know it generates a c source. < 1281212427 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wish I were more creative < 1281212444 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be able to make some complex stuff < 1281212459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I don't think mount -t swap actually works. < 1281212465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[["We caused that asteroid belt, four and a half billion years ago," said James. "It was going to condense into a planet called Earth, which was going to become our home planet when we eventually evolved on it. But we went back in time and blew it up." < 1281212466 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chay nodded sagely. "Why?"]] < 1281212467 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'd use Befunge for something like ASCII if I were < 1281212533 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1281212573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How long does a Gentoo install last these days/ < 1281212574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*days? < 1281212577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RoxFox64: "something like ascii"? < 1281212636 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, ASCII art < 1281212646 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thats really what I meant < 1281212655 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1281212673 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ansi art is more fun :) < 1281212681 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should make a befunge IDE of sorts
< 1281212723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Smalltalk, but I absolutely despise smalltalk.org < 1281212727 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing I'd really have to do is make a text editor that forced insert mode on a row of spaces though. < 1281212767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, stitching atm.. < 1281212795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Day or two? < 1281212806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought the compile-everything installs were deprecated. < 1281212810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... auto exposure... how could I forget. Well too dark outside now to correct this < 1281212834 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I've never heard of smalltalk.org. Ignore it. < 1281212837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This is counting a complex desktop environment such as KDE or Gnome. < 1281212840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How long is a Gentoo install! < 1281212841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah. < 1281212846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's quite a bit less time if you have lesser needs. < 1281212860 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah fuck it, why does stuff suck so much. < 1281212868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281212871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps an hour or two for one's initial install getting to a base, bootable system. < 1281212874 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blah blah whine moan. < 1281212880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay. So how is Slack's driver support? < 1281212888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: How long is a Gentoo install! <-- on what system? < 1281212889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Should be "reasonable". < 1281212891 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsie, sorry, the matrix has you < 1281212913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a way it's a ironicly funny and twisted sorry state that those that promote the "safety of typed systems" and "additional capabilities of typed systems" also are promoting the "barren space devoid of the richness of runtime meta data". < 1281212916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It won't have proprietary drivers by default but it should have pretty much of Linux's supported drivers. < 1281212917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, are we talking about a dual-cpu system consisting of quad core xeon i7? < 1281212920 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^from that site, not from me < 1281212922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or about a pentium2? < 1281212943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they utterly unaware that many statically typed languages (including C#) have metadata? < 1281212984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Non-static polymorphism kinda requires it. < 1281212990 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ubuntu's last release lacked my Ethernet driver. The current one has it. < 1281212992 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does Slack have it? < 1281212999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Maybe? < 1281213003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where "static polymorphism" is C++ templates) < 1281213006 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's fast enough. < 1281213013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: XD < 1281213020 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's ... Archos, I think. < 1281213216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The issue with the "spartan" distros is that I assemble the "perfect environment" then it ends up irritating me for no apparent reason. I don't know why. I'm strange. < 1281213295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is a reduced size version: http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/hotel_window_small.jpg < 1281213361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 5.2 MB < 1281213374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tif is 48MB < 1281213381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Diagnose me. :P < 1281213431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: You must write an OS. < 1281213459 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His own OS will end up irritating him! < 1281213468 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write an os where everything is a dependency < 1281213487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Far worse than the "perfect environment", imagine the scale of a "perfect os"'s irrittation < 1281213493 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is my a key broken? < 1281213506 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That isn't a diagnosis. < 1281213544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, it's a prescription. < 1281213552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For what illness? < 1281213567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NIH Syndrome. < 1281213576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281213585 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know I have /that/; what's /this/ illness? < 1281213589 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how much does KDE4 suck? < 1281213621 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well it made me go back to gnome, does tha help? lol < 1281213632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, actually this current one is exactly NIH < 1281213658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, full size at http://mewtwo.sporksirc.net/~anmaster/images/gothenburg2010/hotel_window.jpg < 1281213689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: yeah but that's /gnome/ < 1281213702 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you use a program to stitch that? < 1281213727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, I looked at the tif images then wrote a new one in a hex editor < 1281213728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281213734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, of course I used one. < 1281213737 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which one? < 1281213742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugin, same as fizzie used for his picture above < 1281213761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, that is http://zem.fi/~fis/20100805_001-009.jpg < 1281213769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://zem.fi/~fis/20100806_001-007.jpg < 1281213800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even the reduced-size version isn't very phone-friendly; but I guess it's okay for this half-a-gig-of-RAM iBook. < 1281213811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm okay < 1281213826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm on my 4GB of RAM thinkpad atm < 1281213833 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I guess I'll ask fizzie when he gets back < 1281213850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, he is back < 1281213851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have 1.25G of RAM in this, but I donated a gigabyte away. < 1281213852 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he's back.. < 1281213856 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION will return
< 1281213863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 1.25 - 1 = 0.5 ? < 1281213865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when? < 1281213867 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, someone name something other than Arch in a few minutes, or the kitty gets it. < 1281213875 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what stitching program are you using? < 1281213886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got a .25 back for the 1 I gave away. < 1281213890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: The same as AnMaster. :p < 1281213893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, anyway I told you the app above. hugin < 1281213894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: (That is, Hugin.) < 1281213918 0 :RoxFox64!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281213925 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks < 1281213935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, it was right at the start of this line: hugin, same as fizzie used for his picture above < 1281213939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so um, why ask fizzie? < 1281213946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I thought that was some kind of insult < 1281213952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, huh? < 1281213959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: "You're such a hugin!" < 1281213964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281213964 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were being weird so I figured you didn't want to tell me lol < 1281213975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kitty is about to get it. < 1281213989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, no, I just thought it was obvious you can't do that without a program < 1281213997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you need to do lots of corrections < 1281214009 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've done it with the gimp < 1281214020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a real, calibrated panorama-head, you can sort-of do it with just regular image-processing tools. < 1281214029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, I mean, I get a horrible stitch if I don't optimise the various lens distortion parameters < 1281214040 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shoots the kitty
< 1281214041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then that is taken at most zoomed out setting < 1281214044 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're all responsible for a feline's death. < 1281214049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite wide angle < 1281214060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari, anyway with gimp you will likely get a very bad match < 1281214074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFS! JFS roolz, other filesystems droolz. < 1281214076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my results weren't very good < 1281214095 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I was either going to be very impressed or want to know what program you used.. anyhow.. lol < 1281214100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there were only 6 64k entries; it tends to oscillate. < 1281214145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every other year there's a whole bunch of great 64k's and very few 4k's; and then the opposite for the next year. < 1281214169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a doctor, and I killed a kitten! < 1281214179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how strange < 1281214183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any known reason for it? < 1281214222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are all completely oblivious to my afriddiliminosik. < 1281214230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly it's because people think "oh, there were so few Xk entries this year, maybe I'll write one for the next year, since it'll be easier to win". < 1281214259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so the best strategy would be to go for the other one? < 1281214261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1281214267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with many entries last year < 1281214283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, though it's by no means an exact rule, just a tendency. < 1281214287 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right so definitely go for 4k next year < 1281214292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know my postcode? i need it < 1281214297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still < 1281214325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it seems that doing oldskool entries is reasonably safe, since the amount of those has been declining for the last few years; this time there were only 4 oldskool demo entries. < 1281214399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing with 4k demos is that there are only so many ones that exist; you can rule out all of the ones that already exist, since you won't want to copy them < 1281214411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning that you have a pretty good chance to hit on a good demo vs a bad one, vs a bigger file size! < 1281214415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[UBER LOGIK]] < 1281214422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why not make a 4k one and then submit it to both, but pad it with 60k for the 64k one? < 1281214457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally you'd need to have a bit more content in a 64k entry. But you could possibly do a 4k, and then an "extended edition" 64k. < 1281214476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah that sounds like a good idea < 1281214510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn UNetbootin, you crazy. < 1281214535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit gaming-the-rules thing; I'm not sure if they have anything explicitly against it, though. And it *is* common to do stuff like using the same C64 picture both as an entry in the graphics compo and as a part of a C64 demo. < 1281214572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, UNetbootin being= < 1281214574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1281214583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a thing < 1281214596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how helpful < 1281214596 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can do crazy things. < 1281214613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like boot a Linux live CD and install it when all you have is a drive running windows, no optical or USB drives < 1281214696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, not that hard assuming you can fit the cd image in memory < 1281214718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming you want to over-write windows) < 1281214750 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not about memory < 1281214756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ? < 1281214758 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it unpacks a bootloader plus the squashfs file into C:\ < 1281214765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1281214766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adds a bootloader option into Windows' bootloader < 1281214773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that boots the bootloader from C:\ < 1281214776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then boots the squashfs < 1281214782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which then sees itself /and/ the windows partition < 1281214789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, my solution would be to put ntfs-3g or such on the initramfs and then loop mount the iso < 1281214792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, you need a spare partition to install < 1281214796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and them copy that to tmpfs < 1281214802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how would you boot it in the first place? < 1281214803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1281214808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So, it's exploiting how live CDs work. Nice. < 1281214841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, little known fact: bootloader of windows nt/xp and presumably later versions can chainload grub < 1281214849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you put grub in a file on the ntfs partition < 1281214859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, um, that's what unetbootin does < 1281214861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc you copy the mbr (perhaps some more) < 1281214866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with syslinux i think iirc < 1281214868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's ntfs... < 1281214874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, okay that works too, but I done it with grub < 1281214875 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1281214896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only done it with LILO; grub's some sort of newfangled nonsense! < 1281214907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1281215000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with tmpfs and then unmounting the iso and the ntfs-3g fs you could easily resize the windows partition from there, or even overwrite it. Of course... if something goes wrong, or you lose power... you are not going to like it < 1281215009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now booting into Arch to see if it supports my Ethernet. < 1281215013 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1281215066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never heard of that being an issue... wlan yes < 1281215091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not ethernet < 1281215105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's something very new, there might be a bit of a lag for the supporting. < 1281215138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even just a new variant that switches PCI ids or some-such to make it not autodetektize correctly. < 1281215152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That sort of stuff gets fixed real fast, of course.) < 1281215221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1281215890 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Smalltalk is based on the idea, that if you both want to define @, then you probably are defining it with the same semantics :)" < 1281215945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you mean duck typing? < 1281215961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is the effect of that < 1281216276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My objection (not as related to duck typing as AnMaster thinks) may be ended < 1281216292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hm? < 1281216318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, if it was your objection, why did you quote it? < 1281216348 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem wasn't that MyClass and YourClass might both define #something, it was that both my project and your project might define Object>>something < 1281216357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I was quoting someone's response < 1281216370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281216391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I can't say I know smalltalk. What does >> do? < 1281216447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do anything, it's just a convention to say, in the case of Object>>something, Object defines a method something < 1281216514 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281216517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281216518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1281216627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1281216754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag = Bag new. aBag add: ais523. < 1281216760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION curses the hotel wlan
< 1281216767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1281216770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: SmallTalk? < 1281216771 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag := Bag new. aBag add: ais523. < 1281216774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bit Rate=5.5 Mb/s < 1281216775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1281216779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281216781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one, not the first < 1281216782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why are you trying to add me to a new bag? < 1281216797 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? >:D < 1281216827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random fact: Feather's syntax is designed to resemble SmallTalk's as much as possible whilst meaning something completely different < 1281216849 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1281216935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, okay now post the details on that < 1281216954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked them out yet < 1281216957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or is this just a joke at our expense? A DNF of esolangs < 1281216967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNF is actually a good comparison < 1281216976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was being worked on right until the point where it was cancelled, apparently < 1281216996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, feather isn't cancelled is it? < 1281217001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1281217040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been cancelled already in the future < 1281217084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281217119 0 :alise!~arch@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say something-- < 1281217130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1281217137 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux really doesn't need swap if I have 4 GiB of RAM, right? < 1281217144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, if it does: why, and how much? < 1281217149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1281217163 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aBag add: alise. < 1281217165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1281217195 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I wonder why they didn't call it a Set. < 1281217204 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it has sets < 1281217207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least Sgeo is growing taste in languages. < 1281217218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bags can contain duplicates < 1281217220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any opinions on that swap thing? :-P < 1281217220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Linux really doesn't need swap if I have 4 GiB of RAM, right? <-- do you want suspend to disk? < 1281217222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference between a bag and a set is that bags contain duplicates < 1281217222 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah. < 1281217226 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: multiset :P < 1281217232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I don't know much about swapping < 1281217238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, not /especially/, but it would be quite nice ... < 1281217242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't it use my proper disk? < 1281217244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but AnMaster's correct in that you need swap to be able to hibernate < 1281217246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nice... < 1281217251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Okay; firstly, why? secondly, why? < 1281217252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it uses swap for hibernate < 1281217254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the way it's implemented is by swapping everything out of memory, and then shutting down < 1281217258 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281217263 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is Sgeo working on now < 1281217263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why can't it just swap out ... to disk? < 1281217266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, an existing program? < 1281217269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: he's just learning Smalltalk. < 1281217271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what do you mean, to disk < 1281217275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when you load again, everything's in swap, and it swaps it out as it reads it < 1281217275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so the ladies will like him. < 1281217279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to my existing / partition < 1281217282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1281217283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, to disk, yes your swap partition on the disk < 1281217286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a specified partition with stuff on it already < 1281217297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: presumably it would be a mess, because it would require unswapping everything immediately on boot < 1281217301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else leaving the file around < 1281217308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But existing OSes do this... < 1281217316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any huge barriers to the concept, but it would be harder to implement, thus probably hasn't been < 1281217316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so, what, I should have four freaking gigs of swap?! < 1281217318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well I don't know if hibernate supports swap files, but you can use a file as swap, not really recommended due to slower performance < 1281217323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it needs to be fixed in size < 1281217338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's fine for the swap to be smaller < 1281217344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, how comes encrypted swap works? < 1281217346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hibernate just fails if you're using more memory at the time than you have swap < 1281217350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Beh. < 1281217352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it does, I used it. < 1281217356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it works just like normal swap, but encrypted.. < 1281217362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, anyone want to check if a swap file can be hibernated to? < 1281217368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you'd just do < 1281217372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[initiate swap file] < 1281217373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[hibernate] < 1281217374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, means that the initramfs somehow gets the kernel to load from the right partition? < 1281217376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, post-hibernate: < 1281217378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after asking for password < 1281217381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[disable swap file] < 1281217381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to unlock it < 1281217382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[remove swap file] < 1281217385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with cryptsetup-luks < 1281217387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you hot-disable a swap file? < 1281217395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, "swapoff"... < 1281217396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean swapoff ? < 1281217408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in that case, incorporating swapoff into the hibernate routine would make sense < 1281217410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I didn't know it existed) < 1281217412 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So /if/ you can hibernate to a swap file, that should work great. The question is, can you? < 1281217421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is kind of important because JFS sort of sucks at resizing. < 1281217432 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "sort of sucks" I basically mean "it doesn't really support it at all". < 1281217459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://wiki.debian.org/Hibernation/Hibernate_Without_Swap_Partition might be useful < 1281217462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how accurate it is < 1281217465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch has initialised my console to full 1366x768 resolution. It's quite bizarre. < 1281217471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have even less of a web browser than you right now. < 1281217474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it say? < 1281217495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests making a lot of config changes to the way swapping works, and installing a package called "uswsusp" < 1281217500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm, I found ext4 a reliable work horse. Sure, not the fastest one, or the one having most features, but very very solid. < 1281217522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a HA linux server I would probably go for ext4 on RAID6 or such < 1281217550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also an Ubuntu bug report, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/252143 < 1281217561 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't ask what filesystem to use. < 1281217563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where they complain about the UI being incapable of realising that hibernation is possible even when it is, in a no-swapfile setup < 1281217572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFS has the best disaster recovery of any production-ready Linux filesystem, btw. < 1281217572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Arch has initialised my console to full 1366x768 resolution. It's quite bizarre. <-- you mean frame buffer? < 1281217576 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the quickest recovery.) < 1281217577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that bizarre? < 1281217579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; presumably. < 1281217582 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because it's only a console! < 1281217592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``I love how fag quotes work properly with the default console fonts.'' < 1281217595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, um, almost every distro I used does that < 1281217597 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281217601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, modern ones < 1281217613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently WUBI used to use a hibernate-to-swapfile setup (due to not repartitioning anything) < 1281217622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was buggy in some way the bug report doesn't explain < 1281217622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So, does it work properly? < 1281217624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it very slow? < 1281217627 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I really give a damn? < 1281217654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implication I get is fast, but buggy in some distros < 1281217662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. Buggy I can handle; I'm using Arch. < 1281217665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buggy, I am absolutely prepared for. < 1281217677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, ASIDE from hibernation, will I need swap with 4 GiBs of RAM? < 1281217682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No assuming ridiculous usecases, AnMaster. < 1281217687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ? < 1281217698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, hibernate-to-file should work just fine in theory, even without additional setup < 1281217709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I suppose we can find out via experiment how it fails in practice < 1281217718 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I thought you would go all ``Well if you're reconfiguring the LHC, you'll need more...'' < 1281217732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I don't know what is ridiculous to you. Presumably you don't stitch HDR panoramas. Which makes my thinkpad swap trash < 1281217738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then I'll fill the rest of my disk. < 1281217744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'Deed I don't. < 1281217755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compile ghc or open office? < 1281217762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not either < 1281217766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GHC doesn't take much RAM to compile. I don't _want_ OpenOffice. < 1281217771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compile GHC quite often; distros suck at it. < 1281217779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC is slow to compile, yes, but not hoggy. < 1281217784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, how? < 1281217784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good point < 1281217790 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have ~120 GiB of free disk, so saving 4 GiB will be nice. < 1281217792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: out of interest, do you want any office software (AbiWord or Microsoft Word on WINE or whatever)? < 1281217795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, compile llvm at -j42? < 1281217796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you happy without it? < 1281217796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No swap partition it is. < 1281217804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite ridiculous though < 1281217807 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with the version of GHC in Ubuntu's repositories? < 1281217808 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ouch at the latter. AbiWord is ... acceptable, when I have to use it. < 1281217819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why on earth would you be using more threads than 1.5 times the number of cores you have? < 1281217822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I generally either jot down stuff in a text file or use LaTeX. Or HTML. < 1281217831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rounded upwards or downwards? < 1281217832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only reason you use more threads than the number of cores you have at all is a scheduler bug < 1281217835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why on earth would you be using more threads than the number of cores you have? Because you're using a broken scheduler. < 1281217838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha! < 1281217844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BTW, Con Kolivas' Brain Fuck Scheduler fixes that issue. < 1281217849 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimal performance is -j < 1281217851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know; does it really matter? < 1281217859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no reason at all, unless they are somehow network IO bound or such, with latency being the main bottleneck < 1281217876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use NFS over IP over avian carrier I guess it might be reasonable < 1281217877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281217882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I wonder how easy it is to get BFS on Gentoo. < 1281217887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, BFS? < 1281217896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brain Fuck Scheduler. < 1281217906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281217919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is -j1 fastest for a single-core with all schedulers? < 1281217920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hm, I notice no speed up with -j3 compared to -j2 on my thinkpad < 1281217922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it would be < 1281217922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, awesome. < 1281217930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No separate /boot partition! No swap partition defined!" Arch, you complain so. < 1281217932 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use ck-sources instead of gentoo-sources < 1281217935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-j2 compared to -j1 on my single core sempron 3300+ though... < 1281217942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adds Con Kolivas's patchset to the Gentoo patchset. < 1281217949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You might want to look at the Zen kernel too. < 1281217951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shall do that after this torrent finishes
< 1281217953 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It adds TuxOnIce, BFS, etc. < 1281217953 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281217957 0 :Wamanuz2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281217958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe just ck is fine though. < 1281217964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmm, zen-sources may be nice. < 1281217968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, using an unusually high -j value would be nice if the make was X-bound for a huge bunch of different Xs in different components < 1281217973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it weird, a 1.3 GHz CPU with 4 GiBs of RAM at its disposal? < 1281217978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could do IO-bound and network-bound and CPU-bound things all at once < 1281217981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few years ago you'd be laughed at for suggesting it. < 1281217989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nonsense; we'll be using 4 GHz CPUs with that memory in a few years!" < 1281217998 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And if the CPU is low-powered, no reason to put expensive RAM in it!" < 1281218008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, processor clock speeds stopped going up < 1281218017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the processors are still getting faster regardless, mostly by adding cores < 1281218018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that too, but my scenario also makes sense, for a certain value of sense < 1281218019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, BFS also makes the kernel smaller. < 1281218025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: If not for public perception they'd be going /down/. < 1281218027 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For power usage, etc. < 1281218031 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1281218037 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because it removes CFS. < 1281218043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, I really don't care about my clockspeed < 1281218043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is not Brain Fuckedly simple. < 1281218060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly because you can't get an electronic engineering degree without realising that lower is normally better, if you can speed the resulting speed up some other way < 1281218066 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281218085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I still do quite a few heavy serial tasks, meaning I want a reasonably high clock speed < 1281218092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.26 GHz is quite nice < 1281218095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this laptop < 1281218100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha, AnMaster doesn't understand how CPU architectures work < 1281218103 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everybody laugh at him < 1281218105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: just do those heavy serial tasks simultaneously < 1281218109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*AnMaster: < 1281218124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't help if it is one task only really < 1281218134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sure, there are other ways to improve speed < 1281218136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd be surprised if your /life/ was that serial < 1281218139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better instruction set and so on < 1281218139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My CPU is a 10 GHz Subleq! Fuck yeah, serial tasks." < 1281218146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, trust me; AnMaster's life /is/ that serial. < 1281218157 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What could be more important than stitching panoramas?! < 1281218169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can stitch two panoramas at once < 1281218172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course I do other stuff while waiting. I'm in no way suggesting that dual core or quad core is bad < 1281218179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then, that task seems somewhat parallelisable < 1281218187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STITCHING TEN PANORAMAS AT ONCE YEAAAAAAAAAAAARGH < 1281218206 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHOTOGRAPHER HULK SMASH (IMAGES TOGETHER) < 1281218237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that 2x 2 GHz is better than 40 x 50 MHz < 1281218244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that is exaggerated < 1281218249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still get my point though < 1281218266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not as good as 1,000,000,000,000 x 100 Hz! < 1281218274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, stitching is quite parallelisable < 1281218281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo typos < 1281218282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(think Connection Machine) < 1281218316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for some tasks that might actually be better, not for my use case though < 1281218335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as 40 x 50 MHz could be better for some use cases as well < 1281218463 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NETWORK_PERSIST=yes will speed up shutdown, right? < 1281218475 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it "skips network shutdown" < 1281218479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. BFS manages to make latency lower with more CPUs. Nice. < 1281218480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any bad side-effects? < 1281218542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guarantee that any even vaguely modern CPU executes things in parallel. < 1281218555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes I know about that < 1281218568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in this case I specifically meant multiple cores < 1281218584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, rather than out-of-order, superscalar and so on < 1281218599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone wrt NETWORK_PERSIST? AnMaster? You know arch. < 1281218606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you are specifically referring to SMP. You probably still see benefits from it. < 1281218610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, NETWORK_PERSIST? < 1281218624 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from /etc/rc.conf < 1281218630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway I don't have arch handy to check atm. I'm on a hotel room with my thinkpad running ubuntu < 1281218637 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? < 1281218658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh definitely, which I also said < 1281218706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but I wasn't complaining about SMP, nor NUMA, rather I'm saying that: < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: well, processor clock speeds stopped going up < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the processors are still getting faster regardless, mostly by adding cores < 1281218717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: If not for public perception they'd be going /down/. < 1281218726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not always such a good idea < 1281218733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, for power usage it makes sense < 1281218746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you have any idea how crazy things are at high frequencies, in general? < 1281218764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lower frequency = saner < 1281218770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the general rule of electronics < 1281218773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, to some degree. I don't have a degree in EE though < 1281218778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(slight possible exception: DC and AC work very differently) < 1281218800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High clock frequencies are *hard*. And the Pentium 4 managed to nearly top out on practical CPU clock frequency. < 1281218857 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281218884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, a) a lot of current software can't make easy use of multiple cores b) many tasks can't be parralellised very easy. Sure you can still run several of them at once, but sometimes you might only need one and you would prefer that getting done faster < 1281218889 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281218928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Beats me < 1281218930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guarantee you run multiple programs at once. < 1281218931 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in /etc/hosts does the preferred hostname come first or last? < 1281218972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example that is actually on topic, consider esolang interpreters. Specifically something like "running a bf program". You can probably split part of the optimising of the program in multiple threads (though some will depend on the inferred state at the end of the previous section and so on), but running it? no? < 1281218981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I guarantee you run multiple programs at once. <-- again I never claimed anything else < 1281218981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have localhost and localhost.localdomain by default < 1281218991 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: plus "myhost" < 1281219005 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've removed "localhost.localdomain" < 1281219018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess localhost would be preferred of those two, anyway < 1281219019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean your BF interp doesn't autoparallelize loops? < 1281219023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can say that my computer is currently mostly idle. I'm using irc, and htop. Then there is a number of stuff like udevd, various kernel processes, and what not running < 1281219027 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the FSF itself doesn't understand the GDFL. Nice. < 1281219048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could be done, but there are lots of programs that would gain nothing from it < 1281219048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1281219049 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird.. with their demo batch it works great, but with my own photos, hugin didn't work at all < 1281219061 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get it to turn out so well? < 1281219062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *GFDL? < 1281219068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it relatively well < 1281219087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh my god amazing idea < 1281219088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because I used to be a Wikipedia admin, partly because I've used it myself for things that it's actually vaguely appropriate for < 1281219090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrt parallelising loops < 1281219094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to work on The Ultimate BF optimiser :D < 1281219101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1281219115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could do /all/ polynomialised loops like that, I think < 1281219126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1281219139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you parallelize a polynomialised loop? < 1281219139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lets take [->++>+++<<] and for the moment ignore that this could be turned into a simple p[1]=p[0]*2; p[2]=p[0]*3;p[0]=0; < 1281219142 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just polynomialise it instead < 1281219154 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, the FSF apparently told WP to ask their attorney. < 1281219163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I mean [ [...polynomial loop...] ] < 1281219169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281219170 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which turns into [ some polynomial ] < 1281219177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure you could run those in parallel < 1281219179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all three written values would be in same cache line with high probability. Sure they might be split across two, but probably won't be < 1281219179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: too be fair, the WP's attorney is Mike Godwin < 1281219190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to be fair < 1281219192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, really? :D < 1281219196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that Godwin < 1281219201 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin as in the Law? < 1281219202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as I said, lets ignore that for the moment: you'd just polynomialise it instead < 1281219204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FSF probably just decided he was the best person < 1281219205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1281219209 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... < 1281219215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, argh the lag < 1281219219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``I request that the court consider the fact that the vandal, WillyOnWheels, has several similarities to the Nazis and indeed Hitler.'' < 1281219220 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281219226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" you'd just polynomialise it instead" to " Godwin as in the Law?" showed up in 1 second < 1281219227 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, will he be comparing the CIA to Nazis < 1281219229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1281219258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin never stated that all comparisions to Nazis are accurate < 1281219262 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would he use one? < 1281219269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hur wat is joek < 1281219278 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your honour, someone else didn't allow us to use our logo. They were the Nazis. The defence rests." < 1281219285 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/our/their/ < 1281219337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :``The defence rests ON THE JUSTICE OF THIS COURT, which is so unlike many courts which are not justful. Do you know what one of those courts was? That's right. The court of the NAZIS.'' < 1281219338 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1281219366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, easy on the backquotes. < 1281219375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, will he be comparing the CIA to Nazis <-- ?? < 1281219392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it must be awful to be Mike Godwin < 1281219393 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But ``fag quotes'' work perfectly with the right console font! < 1281219396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: XD < 1281219398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have people do this sort of thing everywhere you go < 1281219398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have I missed here < 1281219403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, CIA sues WP for using their logo thing. WP's attorney is Godwin. < 1281219408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fill in blanks. < 1281219409 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ITYM ``awesome'' < 1281219410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: *FBI < 1281219411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281219425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBIAC < 1281219428 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same difference < 1281219436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRUB? Pah. < 1281219437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Godwin's response was awesome < 1281219440 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gimme lilo. < 1281219443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVE ME LILO < 1281219454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LILO: The best thing since sliced lilo! < 1281219460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're turning into a stereotyped Gentoo user... < 1281219468 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, It's a bootloader. You use it for what, 3 seconds? < 1281219468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1281219478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen a gentoo user claim that lilo was better than grub < 1281219480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1281219482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: THOSE ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT 3 SECONDS OF MY LIFE. < 1281219487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, any actual gentoo user < 1281219490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, a stereotypical AliseLinux OS < 1281219492 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user < 1281219497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1281219497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1281219497 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliseLinux OS, how redundant < 1281219499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like PCLinuxOS < 1281219509 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, but it's still an option on Gentoo. :) < 1281219517 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Linux-based operating system that runs on your personal computer! We have our brand name! < 1281219520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, PCLinuxOS for Personal Computers you mean? < 1281219532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, is it? huh < 1281219540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it was elilo that was < 1281219554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, straight Lilo is still in Portage. < 1281219557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough to uninstall GRUB, right? < 1281219558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1281219574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gentoo does not install a bootloader by default. < 1281219583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how do you load it by default? < 1281219583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is this still on arch? < 1281219585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm curious now < 1281219602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while on livecd, you install one? < 1281219610 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You ... can uninstall GRUB, right? :D < 1281219615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: boring < 1281219616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1281219619 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1281219640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since you install by extracting tarball, editing a bit in /etc, then chrooting and installing one for each package where multiple alternatives exist < 1281219644 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281219650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as dhcp client, boot loader, and so on < 1281219654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders how Ubuntu would react to "sudo aptitude remove grub" or whatever the package is
< 1281219656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you build kernel there too < 1281219683 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch installed. < 1281219690 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" < 1281219690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, grub has priority: optional < 1281219712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however, it seems linux-image depends on grub < 1281219714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that implies it's not part of a default install < 1281219717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, recommends < 1281219719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1281219723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1281219726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1281219743 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hasn't got grub installed.
< 1281219748 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has
< 1281219750 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have grub-pc. < 1281219768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't have any depends on grub... just recommends and suggests < 1281219771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how interesting < 1281219788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I'm not going to test anything. I don't have a boot cd handy < 1281219791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1281219794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at hotel < 1281219800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, depending on a particular bootloader strikes me as crazy < 1281219812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh but grub provides a virtual < 1281219814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should anything care about the specific bootloader used, apart from bootloader modules (if such things exist)? < 1281219819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the virtual makes a lot more sense < 1281219820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aptitude claims nothing depends on the virtual < 1281219821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281219834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why on earth would you write "this program depends on some bootloader"? < 1281219839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is the virtual marked as essential? < 1281219842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281219843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and thus a dependency of /everything/)? < 1281219845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1281219851 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281219857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-boot-loader < 1281219864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find if it is essential or not < 1281219872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :info doesn't show it < 1281219891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can virtuals even be essential? < 1281219903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually, it being essential would be silly < 1281219910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, think of stuff like chroot installs < 1281219917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or xen (not sure how that boots) < 1281219923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281219933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"depends on some bootloader" would only really make sense for init < 1281219937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't needed in a chroot either < 1281219944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, linux-image < 1281219947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense there too < 1281219950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a recommends however < 1281219959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux bootloaders recommend linux? < 1281219961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or vice versa? < 1281219972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-image recommends grub < 1281219975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1281219988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, freebsd jails (glorified and more secure chroots) run an init inside each jail < 1281219996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally it's a case of depending on something in general and something in particular < 1281219998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as a parenthesis < 1281220011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C-INTERCAL depending on "gcc or a C compiler" < 1281220025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux-image-2.6.32-24-generic recommends "grub-pc | grub | lilo (>= 19.1)" < 1281220027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to suggest that gcc is the right compiler to install if there isn't one already, but any C compiler can be used if there is one < 1281220067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what about coreboot? you wouldn't use grub then. Or booting linux stored in a NOR flash < 1281220084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if there's a difference between NOR flash and NAND flash
< 1281220088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than, you know, logic levels < 1281220102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, iirc you can't get execute-in-place for NAND < 1281220134 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-4-195.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281220140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quoting WP: "the interface provided for reading and writing the memory is different (NOR allows random-access for reading, NAND allows only page access)" < 1281220183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so it's a case of the names describing a lot that's irrelevant to the actual names < 1281220184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as usual < 1281220195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "NOR and NAND flash get their names from the structure of the interconnections between memory cells.[16] In NOR flash, cells are connected in parallel to the bitlines, allowing cells to be read and programmed individually. The parallel connection of cells resembles the parallel connection of transistors in a CMOS NOR gate. In NAND flash, cells are connected in series, resembling a NAND gate." < 1281220208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The series connections consume less space than parallel ones, reducing the cost of NAND flash. It does not, by itself, prevent NAND cells from being read and programmed individually." < 1281220216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it seems it isn't actual NOR and NAND < 1281220232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's based on half of the usual implementations in terms of FETs < 1281220242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1281220250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe even the entire thing if you're going open-drain < 1281220281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while I understand every word of what you just said, I do not understand the whole thing... < 1281220302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wouldn't open-drain consume quite a bit of power? < 1281220320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1281220337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it does use higher power than the usual logic levels < 1281220403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also WP: "In flash memory, each memory cell resembles a standard MOSFET, except the transistor has two gates instead of one." < 1281220946 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh hugin keeps shrinking my image < 1281220951 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way to overrride? < 1281221139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? You can specify any pixel-width you like in the stitching window. < 1281221173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it shrinks in the preview, it means the optimizer thinks the field-of-view is smaller than what it was. < 1281221261 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1281221263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that "calculate optimal size" button which makes it calc pixel size for the output so that its resolution approximately matches the source images. < 1281221294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the scrollbars in the preview control the fov. < 1281221712 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to invent a 'patamagician class in Dungeons&Dragons < 1281221967 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain TeX is more better than LaTeX! I have used both, and I have concluded that Plain TeX is more better. In addition, cross-references can be done in Plain TeX without needing auxiliary files or two passes. < 1281222013 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'patamagician? < 1281222065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get the impression alise missed stuff in Spaced < 1281222082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll check when I get home < 1281222157 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the attempted jump to Epsilion Eridani occured too soon < 1281222160 0 :alise!~ehird@91.104.239.35 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281222177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xorg 1.8: "We made hotplugging and automatic hardware detection work. Like, actually really honest-to-godly work." < 1281222188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, and NO MORE FUCKING .FDI." < 1281222202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+++++ would buy again < 1281222203 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spaced? < 1281222208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Yes, it is my idea, 'patamagician class. Some of its features are both spontaneous and prepared casting (but less slots than normal, even in total), a null metamagic feat, extra 'patamagic uses, and cantripology (when you run out of all slots (both prepared and spontaneous), of all levels, you can get one free 0-level slot costing 1 XP) < 1281222213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Wat < 1281222221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1281222229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1281222421 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone know of a Linux browser that isn't naff? ...Yeah, didn't think so. < 1281222433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Linux// < 1281222436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See Phantom_Hoover, I said ``naff'' instead of ``sucky''. < 1281222440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "naff" means? < 1281222440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, web browsers suck universally. < 1281222442 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That too. s/ / /. < 1281222447 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes I agree < 1281222450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: British slang for "kind of rubbish". < 1281222460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software, really, sucks universally. < 1281222464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Something naff is... ineffectual, useless; like "crappy" but more... bleh-y. < 1281222477 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Be careful! Phantom_Hoover will DESTROY your negativity with a Care Bear stare. < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I get the impression alise missed stuff in Spaced < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'll check when I get home < 1281222507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think the attempted jump to Epsilion Eridani occured too soon < 1281222510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AFK < 1281222527 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did < 1281222530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I corrected it < 1281222532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my lastest link < 1281222537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I missed one chapter out < 1281222543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK < 1281222592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Spac\'ed (I dunno how to do the rightwards-pointing accent in the Linux console...) is the second major story-arc of the Ed stories. < 1281222601 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/ed, or see the logs for my nicely-typeset PDF. < 1281222615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ig < 1281222617 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1281222644 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Hmm... how is Konqueror these days? < 1281222654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1281222657 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs Midori
< 1281222663 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you disable some toolbar icons it's... usable. < 1281222708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also like to note that pekwm is a pretty nice window manager. < 1281222820 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281223263 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, pikhq. If GTK et al are rendering UI elements and text in bitmap fonts, what does that mean? < 1281223268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have non-bitmap fonts installed. < 1281223312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. I dunno. < 1281223313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually /no I don't/. < 1281223319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd do it. < 1281223325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch is really a bit anal with the "DO NOT INCLUDE ANYTHING IN PACKAGES! ANYTHING!!!!" thing. < 1281223326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAA http://www.firstpersontetris.com/ < 1281223340 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Just from the URL: <3<3<3 < 1281223372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281223382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION "sacrifices the present at the altar of the future" by installing the bitstream fonts
< 1281223414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's flash < 1281223474 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've installed Linux Libertine. I guess I have to tell something that's my default font now, huh? < 1281223499 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And AFK soon forreal < 1281223523 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1281223538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: interestingly, that fact never crossed my mind. but then i was seriously dizzy most of the time. < 1281223568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use FlashBlock, so I immediately notice < 1281223618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Linux Biolinium O. Yeeeees <3 < 1281223660 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281223789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Sadly, Linux Biolinium is not finished. < 1281223897 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( FlashBlock < 1281223897 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it IS hot. < 1281223906 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, OMG GTK+ THEMES STOP SUCKING. < 1281223959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1281223959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The hinting sucks though. < 1281224081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux botulinum < 1281224123 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there no nice monospaced fonts/ < 1281224123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the _final_ operating system < 1281224244 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281224424 0 :SimonRC!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1281224431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Bio-linoleum; the environmentally conscious, yet cheap and durable operating system. < 1281224453 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does that weird snorty laugh thing
< 1281224539 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's a font? < 1281224561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reason for it being called _Linux_ Biolinum in particular? < 1281224573 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, it's for Linux. < 1281224579 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is it called Grotesque < 1281224581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume. < 1281224592 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, typography people have awesome terminology. < 1281224626 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise gave me a list of the proper terms for points. They're fantastic. < 1281224631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grotesque should be something with tentacles perfect for printing lovecraft stories < 1281224651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 pt: paragon < 1281224655 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A sans serif style with moderate stroke contrast and modern proportions particular to the U.K. Usually features a two-story lowercase g, closed strokes (usually curving in slightly) on C and S, and a sloped, non-cursive italic. Classic example: Bureau Grot." < 1281224742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What typeface do the examples in http://typedia.com/learn/only/anatomy-of-a-typeface/ use? < 1281224744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks nice < 1281224842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the tail in R decorative < 1281224866 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, the tail of that R was nice and curved in the input box. Too bad the .. chat thingy uses a different font < 1281224964 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281224986 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence "decorative". < 1281225008 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, why aren't there any nice monospace fonts? < 1281225083 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly, monospace fonts that handle funny characters elegantly. < 1281225207 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have no idea what a Foundry is < 1281225223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that some fonts are either missing them or missing information on them on Typedia < 1281225423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A type foundry creates fonts. < 1281225431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, typefaces. < 1281225441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence FontForge? < 1281225471 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To install fonts on Ubuntu I simply copy them into ~/.fonts, right?