←2010-08-11 2010-08-12 2010-08-13→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, the 64-bit Unix ABI specifies that the xmm registers are used for floats and doubles..
00:27:03 <oklopol> "<augur> my sleep generally ends up involving ..." <<< when i'm half asleep, reading math, i sometimes get these sudden feelings that one mathematical object in a definition is angry with another one, or that some things have a love affair, sometimes a rather complicated scenario can appear, where all the mathematical objects are humans with certain roles in some human interaction vaguely similar to what's being defined or proven
00:27:20 <oklopol> and when it happens i usually try to keep reading without falling to sleep because it's fucking awesome
00:27:56 <augur> :D
00:27:59 <augur> oklopol
00:28:01 <oklopol> (i mean the scenario doesn't evolve or anything, but i continue in hope that it happens again)
00:28:12 <augur> will you be my argument tonight
00:28:13 <augur> x3
00:28:48 <oklopol> i wish i remembered these... i guess they are sort of microdreams because i can't seem to remember them for very long
00:29:28 <Phantom_Hoover> The mathematical love affairs were interesting. Try reading a romance novel and a maths book at the same time.
00:31:19 <oklopol> i can't read fiction
00:31:34 <augur> oklopol: BE MY ARGUMENT
00:31:38 <augur> I NEED YOU IN ME
00:31:39 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, presumably because it tends to be typeset in non-monospaced fonts.
00:31:41 <oklopol> :-)
00:31:52 <Phantom_Hoover> augur(oklopol)
00:31:54 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: so is math, so can't be the reason
00:31:58 <augur> I WANT TO PUT YOU IN MY BODY
00:32:20 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: more haskellish plx.
00:32:26 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, can you just not make sense of the words, or do you just not like it?
00:32:36 <oerjan> augur =<< oklopol
00:32:42 <augur> no no
00:32:48 <oklopol> oerjan: let's not get carried away
00:32:50 <augur> thats backwards, oerjan
00:32:50 <oerjan> BUT IT'S MONADIC
00:32:54 <augur> oklopol >>= augur
00:32:54 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, that eviscerates oklopol first.
00:33:03 <augur> i dont think =<< is defined at all
00:33:09 <oklopol> is
00:33:13 <oerjan> eviscerates? i don't think we're thinking of the same monad
00:33:13 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, it's in Control.Monad
00:33:24 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, I'm thinking of the Person monad.
00:33:31 <augur> realyl
00:33:32 <augur> thats weird
00:33:43 <augur> whats reverse-bind do?
00:33:46 <oerjan> !haskell [1,2,3] =<< [4,5]
00:33:46 <oklopol> same
00:33:48 <augur> besides bind, i mean
00:33:56 <oklopol> oh bind
00:33:57 <Phantom_Hoover> It provides an interface between computations in the brain and the body.
00:33:58 <augur> oerjan, thats not a function
00:34:10 <oerjan> d'oh
00:34:10 <augur> [4,5] >>= [1,2,3] is a type error.
00:34:19 <oerjan> !haskell const [1,2,3] =<< [4,5]
00:34:20 <Phantom_Hoover> So bind rips a person's brain out of their body and applies the other one to it.
00:34:20 <EgoBot> [1,2,3,1,2,3]
00:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> As such, oklopol >>= return is effectively a brain transplant.
00:34:54 <augur> what the fuck
00:34:59 <oerjan> augur: it's just the same with arguments swapped, for when you want "arguments" to go last like with ordinary functions
00:35:06 <oklopol> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:35:12 <augur> !haskell [4,5] >>= const [1,2,3]
00:35:13 <EgoBot> [1,2,3,1,2,3]
00:35:21 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol >>= augur probably takes augur's body and puts oklopol's brain in it.
00:35:24 <augur> oh, right, ok
00:35:27 <oklopol> wait what's wrong with mine
00:35:32 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]).
00:35:33 <oklopol> oh
00:35:34 <augur> that took a bit
00:35:35 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, learn to monad.
00:35:41 <oklopol> :-D
00:35:42 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell :t (>>)
00:35:44 <EgoBot> (>>) :: (Monad m) => m a -> m b -> m b
00:35:53 <augur> >> is just sequencing
00:36:12 <augur> its basically >>= where the argument of the function is _
00:36:32 <Phantom_Hoover> >> does weird things with lists, actually.
00:36:41 <oklopol> that's why i thought [1,2,3] << [4,5] is [4,5] >>= const [1,2,3].
00:36:45 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell [1,2,3] >> [4,5]
00:36:47 <EgoBot> [4,5,4,5,4,5]
00:36:50 <oerjan> augur: =<< is better for combining with . as they have the same "direction of flow"
00:36:55 <oklopol> err
00:36:56 <oklopol> wtf
00:37:01 <oklopol> so i was correct
00:37:03 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, correct.
00:37:10 <Phantom_Hoover> You have indeed learnt to monad.
00:37:18 <augur> oerjan: i see
00:37:22 <oklopol> so why didn't mine work then
00:37:29 <augur> << isnt defined is why
00:37:35 <oklopol> or is << not defined, ego said something about problems with ++
00:37:50 <oklopol> /tmp/input.19254.hs:1:33: parse error on input `++'
00:37:58 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, probably because if they defined every variant on every operator then Haskell would be enormous.
00:37:59 <oklopol> therefore i assumed << is defined
00:38:04 <oklopol> but
00:38:07 <oklopol> given that it's a parse error
00:38:11 <oklopol> that was a bit stupid of me
00:38:13 <augur> well
00:38:15 <augur> did you just type ++
00:38:18 <augur> or did you type (++)
00:38:23 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, you assumed that GHC error reporting was going to be clear?
00:38:26 <oklopol> i tope "!haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]"
00:38:38 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell :i concatMap
00:38:39 <EgoBot> concatMap :: (a -> [b]) -> [a] -> [b] -- Defined in GHC.List
00:38:58 <oklopol> but as i said: silly of me
00:39:11 <oerjan> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:39:22 <Phantom_Hoover> << isn't defined!
00:39:25 <oerjan> oklopol: says nothing about ++ for me
00:39:34 <oklopol> oh?
00:39:35 <Phantom_Hoover> I checked in my own GHCi.
00:39:41 <augur> oklopol
00:39:41 <oklopol> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:39:44 <augur> in your ghci
00:39:45 <Phantom_Hoover> It isn't even defined in Control.Monad.
00:39:46 <augur> are you just typing ++
00:39:54 <augur> and getting the parse error?
00:39:57 <augur> or are you typing (++)
00:39:58 <oklopol> i don't have a haskell interp or compiler
00:40:07 <oklopol> i don't program.
00:40:15 <augur> so where the fuck did "/tmp/input.19254.hs:1:33: parse error on input `++'" come from
00:40:18 <augur> dont make me fuck you up
00:40:21 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, what are you doing on a programming channel?
00:40:23 <oklopol> egobot told me in pm
00:40:32 <augur> what did you type to egobot
00:40:33 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, EgoBot DCCs to you if the input is multi-line.
00:40:33 <augur> >_<
00:40:41 <Phantom_Hoover> s/in/out/
00:40:45 <augur> !haskell ++
00:40:49 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: i mostly talk about math and design languages
00:40:52 <augur> !haskell (++)
00:41:32 <oklopol> augur: i tope "!haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]", as i said; in any case i retried and now it says "<interactive>:1:117: Not in scope: `Main.main'"
00:41:33 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, operators need either to have both arguments or be bracketed, otherwise they are syntax errors.
00:41:34 <oklopol> :D
00:41:36 <Phantom_Hoover> As such,
00:41:44 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell :i (++)
00:41:45 <EgoBot> (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] -- Defined in GHC.Base
00:41:47 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell :i ++
00:41:48 <EgoBot> (++) :: [a] -> [a] -> [a] -- Defined in GHC.Base
00:41:58 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell :t ++
00:42:01 <oklopol> oh and "tope" means "typed" in case you don't know olden golden english
00:42:04 <augur> Phantom_Hoover: i know this
00:42:08 <oklopol> they said tope in the 1500's
00:42:09 <augur> which is why i was asking oklopol
00:42:11 <oerjan> augur: (++) is a function and has no printable form by default
00:42:13 <Phantom_Hoover> augur, good, just checking.
00:42:43 <oerjan> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:43:09 <oklopol> augur: to tell this a third time, for fun, i did not type ++ anywhere, in fact it's months since i typed it.
00:43:23 <augur> ok
00:43:24 <augur> well
00:43:26 <augur> you're crazy
00:43:27 <oerjan> oklopol: that's weird i just get a simple parse error with no mention of ++
00:43:32 <augur> be my argument tonight <3
00:43:32 <augur> bye
00:43:36 <oklopol> i shall bye
00:43:41 <oklopol> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:43:48 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, STOP DOING THAT
00:43:51 <oklopol> lol
00:43:53 <oklopol> getting closer
00:43:54 <oklopol> <EgoBot> /tmp/input.19886.hs:2:0:
00:43:54 <Phantom_Hoover> It'll never work!
00:43:54 <oklopol> <EgoBot> parse error (possibly incorrect indentation)
00:43:56 <oklopol> :D
00:44:06 <oerjan> oklopol: that's what i got, essentially
00:44:09 <oerjan> both times
00:44:20 <Phantom_Hoover> I have GHCi on my computer. << is not defined in the Prelude or in Control.Monad.
00:44:24 <oklopol> let's try it again
00:44:27 <oklopol> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:44:45 <oklopol> i'll try once more, gave me parse error again
00:44:47 <oklopol> !haskell [1,2,3] << [4,5]
00:44:53 <oklopol> okay
00:45:01 <oklopol> seems it's now consistently a parse error
00:45:07 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol >>= const $ return "Die, oklopol's brain!"
00:46:06 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: we're not trying to make << work, we're just wondering why EgoBot apparently gives oklopol strangely inconsistent error messages to that
00:46:26 <oerjan> involving ++ at least one time
00:46:46 <Sgeo__> "I try hard to forget Perl every day"
00:47:16 <Sgeo__> That reminds me, I'm taking a class on Perl this upcoming semester :(
00:47:22 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, doesn't !haskell do weird things if GHCi complains?
00:47:26 <Phantom_Hoover> !show haskell
00:47:26 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
00:47:34 <oklopol> oerjan: are these definitions standard: given a cayley graph G with generators X = {g_1, ..., g_n}, we define norms on strings over X by calculating the amounts of uses of each g_i (k-norms and shit), and then we define the norm of an element as the minimal norm of a representation as string over X, then we can define balls as usual and ellipsoids by weighing generators differently when computing the norm
00:47:34 <Phantom_Hoover> !sh ls
00:47:35 <EgoBot> interps
00:47:45 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: yes. but the message should still be the same each time...
00:48:02 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, well, once it leaves GHCi all bets are off.
00:48:03 <oerjan> oklopol: no f idea
00:48:11 <oklopol> :D
00:48:33 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: oh it just puts it in a file and loads that file as a module with runghc, afaik
00:49:11 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, which command exactly caused the weird error?
00:49:27 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: the one you've been bloody complaining about!
00:49:33 <oklopol> wait
00:49:42 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, OKOKOK
00:50:18 <oklopol> apart from the ellipsoids, i'm basically asking if cayley graphs usually inherit the normal metric of the graph
00:50:26 <oklopol> which they obviously do
00:50:38 <oklopol> the ellipsoid is fun because we can generalize things like rectangles
00:51:01 <oklopol> because rectangles are the ellipsoids in Z^2 with the infinity norm
00:51:13 <oklopol> with the usualy generators
00:51:20 <oklopol> *usual
00:51:39 <oerjan> oklopol: oh hm wait i think i may know what happened. EgoBot has a bug that sometimes causes it to give the response for one command only after the next one... you must have got the response to one of augur's ++ tests
00:51:54 <oklopol> okay
00:52:07 <oklopol> i got two though, but i guess that's just how god made me
00:52:26 <oklopol> i don't get how people don't find cayley graphs so fucking sexy
00:52:30 <oerjan> maybe it happened with both of his tests...
00:53:51 <oklopol> i mean half the lemmas for finite semigroups can be reduced to tracing paths on the cayley graph (the two lemmas i know, that, i just generalized this for arbitrary proofs)
00:53:56 <oklopol> oerjan: lol good point :D
00:54:13 <oklopol> have i mentioned i'm an idiot
00:54:23 <oerjan> possibly
00:54:53 <oerjan> but then, as an idiot your word cannot be trusted on such matters
00:55:37 <oklopol> true, only that who are truly smart can know he is not know much things.
00:55:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:56:33 <oklopol> bye hoovie
00:59:47 <oerjan> hmph
01:00:52 <oerjan> darn i cannot open new internet connections
01:08:21 <Sgeo__> http://www.fiveminute.net/nextgen/comic.php?ep=encounteratfarpoint&page=1
01:12:52 <Sgeo__> Meh, the non-comic is better
01:13:02 <Sgeo__> I'm still reading the comic for some reason
01:17:25 <Sgeo__> "Yar: I don't waste time thinking. Life is short. Really, really short.
01:17:25 <Sgeo__> "
01:20:04 -!- SevenInchBread has changed nick to CakeProphet.
01:42:37 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
01:43:52 -!- sshc has joined.
01:47:36 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:50:04 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
01:57:22 <augur> hi
02:11:24 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
02:13:45 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
02:16:56 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
02:21:10 -!- augur has joined.
02:26:19 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:41:08 -!- benuphoenix has quit (Quit: leaving).
02:54:57 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:01:55 <Sgeo__> Nurse Ogawa: ...and he also seems to be pregnant.
03:01:55 <Sgeo__> Crusher: But that's impossible! We were really carefu--
03:04:02 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
03:04:23 <Sgeo__> Worf: Good news, Doctor. The new Trill host, Kareel, is finally here.
03:04:23 <Sgeo__> Crusher: Where? I don't see anyone.
03:04:23 <Sgeo__> Worf: Our guest first had to stop by the ladies' room.
03:04:23 <Sgeo__> Crusher: That's strange. Is the men's washroom broken?
03:04:23 <Sgeo__> Worf: It is working considerably better than your ability to take a hint.
03:19:36 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
03:21:29 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
03:25:52 <Sgeo__> Oh sure, TOS is legally available online, but not TNG
03:28:00 -!- Gregor-P has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
03:48:58 <Sgeo__> Worf: Good news, Doctor. The new Trill host, Kareel, is finally here.
03:48:58 <Sgeo__> Crusher: Where? I don't see anyone.
03:48:58 <Sgeo__> Worf: Our guest first had to stop by the ladies' room.
03:48:58 <Sgeo__> Crusher: That's strange. Is the men's washroom broken?
03:48:58 <Sgeo__> Worf: It is working considerably better than your ability to take a hint.
03:49:00 <Sgeo__> oops
03:49:05 <Sgeo__> Paris: Did you just spoil the plot for the sake of a lame DS9 reference? Neelix, Neelix, Neelix....
03:50:22 <Sgeo__> Janeway: Janeway to all hands: turns out we're all fictional.
03:51:01 <coppro> balrgslakjfdls
03:54:52 <coppro> someone say something
03:55:25 <oerjan> but you just ruined my comment!
03:55:44 <coppro> NEVER
03:55:47 <coppro> Sgeo__: you
03:56:13 <Sgeo__> nothing?
03:57:16 <coppro> curses
04:10:45 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
04:13:03 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:16:48 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
04:41:36 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:49:22 -!- sshc has joined.
04:53:23 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
05:05:24 -!- Sgeo__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
05:06:15 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
05:12:13 -!- sebbu has joined.
05:15:05 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:37:18 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
05:39:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
05:40:40 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
06:00:14 -!- sshc_ has joined.
06:03:12 -!- sshc has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
06:05:21 -!- sshc has joined.
06:07:56 -!- sshc_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
06:12:31 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
06:16:05 -!- sshc has joined.
06:30:14 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
07:11:15 -!- cal153 has joined.
07:11:23 -!- cal153 has quit (Client Quit).
07:12:43 -!- cal153 has joined.
07:26:42 -!- ski has joined.
07:42:32 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
07:52:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:08:23 -!- asiekierka has joined.
08:08:26 <asiekierka> hello
09:37:48 -!- tombom has joined.
10:33:30 -!- Flonk has joined.
10:57:44 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:05:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
11:10:00 -!- ski has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
11:39:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style.).
11:44:18 -!- SevenInchBread has joined.
11:47:03 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
11:51:03 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
11:59:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Supposedly Microsoft misdocumented the API calling convention to say that arguments were passed left-to-right rather than right-to-left.
11:59:25 <Phantom_Hoover> How did these people corner the home computer market, again?
12:14:03 <asiekierka> Phantom_Hoover: Internet Explorer 4 through 6 and being the first OS that's not a pain to use (Windows 95), why?
12:14:07 <asiekierka> err, that wasn't
12:14:13 <asiekierka> that was when Linux was almost useless for a newbie
12:14:16 <asiekierka> Macs ran only on Macs
12:14:21 <asiekierka> and OS/2 was largely abandoned
12:16:22 <asiekierka> they used the occasion and made an (largely crap when they integrated IE and slowed their OS down) OS useful for the average Joe
12:16:27 <asiekierka> so everyone went "OMG GIMMIE THAT"
12:23:53 <olsner> around the time of IE4, it was really cool that it could make files act like links, underlined and single-click
12:24:01 <olsner> it was like "omg, the web! in my desktop!"
12:30:54 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
12:38:28 -!- Sgeo__ has joined.
12:40:04 -!- Wamanuz has joined.
12:41:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo__, did you succeed in hitting yourself in the head with a lambda?
12:42:02 <Sgeo__> I succeeded in being very tired, but not sleeping
13:03:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo__, I assume you're on holiday, then?
13:03:32 -!- tombom has joined.
13:03:39 <Sgeo__> School starts... I don't know when School starts, exactly
13:03:54 <Phantom_Hoover> How old are you, exactly?
13:04:21 <Sgeo__> 21
13:04:39 <Sgeo__> By school I mean college, btw
13:05:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Why not say "college", then?
13:05:07 <Phantom_Hoover> It's confusing!
13:29:31 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:29:33 -!- ais523 has quit (Changing host).
13:29:33 -!- ais523 has joined.
13:57:07 <olsner> if the mandelbrot set is not computable, could it be [used to implement something] turing complete?
13:57:34 * Sgeo__ reads the Seaside book
13:58:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
14:13:47 -!- oerjan has joined.
14:16:15 -!- AnMaster has joined.
14:16:25 -!- AnMaster has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
14:22:49 -!- AnMaster has joined.
14:24:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
14:48:26 -!- MizardX has quit (Quit: from __future__ import skynet).
14:48:43 -!- MizardX has joined.
15:16:10 -!- asiekierka1 has joined.
15:19:10 -!- asiekierka has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
15:33:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later).
15:35:56 -!- asiekierka1 has quit.
15:38:42 -!- derdon has joined.
15:43:07 -!- relet has joined.
15:52:19 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
15:53:09 -!- sshc has joined.
15:59:27 <Gregor> Observation: When Ryan North asks for guest Dinosaur Comics, he gets T-Rex/Utahraptor slash action.
16:11:01 <Slereah> Well, not too surprising, since we know they used to be gay lovers
16:16:28 <Gregor> It's arguably how canon that is. But then, guest comics aren't canon anyway.
16:16:39 <Gregor> *argubale
16:16:41 <Gregor> *arguable X_X
16:27:07 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
16:33:31 -!- Killerkid has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
16:34:08 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
16:45:33 <Slereah> That's assuming that it has any canon at all
16:45:48 <Slereah> Instead of being just a string of mostly unrelated jokes
16:45:51 -!- Killerkid has joined.
16:47:05 -!- kar8nga has joined.
17:13:04 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:13:53 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, would Hackiki and the bots be vulnerable to f00foids?
17:23:24 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:26:40 -!- cpressey has joined.
17:27:17 -!- jcp has joined.
17:27:39 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey!
17:28:20 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: NO
17:28:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah, cpressey's evil twin.
17:29:53 * cpressey is waiting for someone to implement Thue in an NSIS script
17:31:39 -!- augur has joined.
17:40:36 -!- Flonk_ has joined.
17:42:09 -!- Flonk has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
17:42:18 -!- Flonk_ has changed nick to Flonk.
17:45:26 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined.
17:46:23 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
17:52:27 <Phantom_Hoover> What does a::=hello\ab::=world\::=\ab evaluate to in Thue?
17:53:40 <cpressey> I would guess it evaluate to either or "hellob" or "world"
17:53:44 <cpressey> *s
17:53:52 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
17:54:43 * Phantom_Hoover wants to try wearing ridiculous clothes, getting some random leaflets and walking down the Royal Mile and see if the street performers and leaflet out-handers leave him alone.
17:58:41 <pikhq> God damned torrent.
17:58:55 <pikhq> 1.4 megabytes left, and not getting any of it.
17:59:10 <Phantom_Hoover> 1.4MB/how much?
17:59:37 <pikhq> 2732.0 megabytes.
18:00:02 <pikhq> ... So I'm going through my ~/audio dir and trying to get FLACs for everything.
18:10:26 <cpressey> Useless trivia: libslang is part of the Ubuntu server base system.
18:10:38 <cpressey> S-Lang, now there's a language!
18:11:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Why are there so many languages that are variants of the exact same concept?
18:12:34 <cpressey> Because they were implemented... "they stick quite well"
18:13:44 <cpressey> Why they were implemented... probably mostly NIH
18:14:56 <cpressey> It would be nice to destroy S-Lang, NSIS, AutoKey, etc etc and replace them all with Lua
18:16:03 <cpressey> Actually, I take "mostly NIH" back. There's a subtle effect in play where the language *grows* out of "Let's make it configurizable"
18:16:32 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, where the config system grows to the point that it becomes a language in itself?
18:16:45 <cpressey> Yes, exactly.
18:16:57 <cpressey> S-Lang is not like that, but a lot of other ones are.
18:17:09 <Phantom_Hoover> fungot, am I connected?
18:17:09 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover: can i remove the toplevel ' plugin', and in a muslim country no less. unless you're coding perhaps.
18:17:31 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, like NSIS?
18:18:16 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Yes. And AutoHotKey (is its real name). And once there was this terminal program for Windows and it had its own scripting language called Aspect... oh man. Yeah.
18:18:55 <cpressey> AutoHotKey is the real name for "AutoKey". NSIS is NSIS. Not related. Just to clarify
18:19:57 <cpressey> Oh, and there was this point of sale system I worked with once with its own really crappy language for its "screens"... well n/m, you get the idea.
18:20:46 <Phantom_Hoover> I suppose the languages are generally shoddily-implemented and slow?
18:22:51 <cpressey> Naturally.
18:23:17 <cpressey> In effect, PHP comes from this school too.
18:24:54 <cpressey> Hell! So does bash, really.
18:26:07 <Sgeo__> S-Lang?
18:27:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, bash is kind of different.
18:27:54 <Phantom_Hoover> It's a user interface that evolved into a language.
18:28:29 <Phantom_Hoover> And then there's zsh, which is basically the epitome of evolution of stuff.
18:28:44 <cpressey> It's a little different, I grant. But the "evolution into a language" thing is definitely there.
18:29:02 <Phantom_Hoover> I love the way that sentence starts off fairly eloquently and then descends to using "stuff".
18:34:00 <Phantom_Hoover> !sh zsh
18:34:00 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.13261: line 1: zsh: command not found
18:36:14 <Phantom_Hoover> ZSH has a facility to use readliney editing on variable.
18:36:20 <Phantom_Hoover> *s
18:37:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Actually, zsh isn't really an example of this.
18:37:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it kind of is.
18:48:06 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:52:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Ooh, it has a TCP library.
18:52:11 <Phantom_Hoover> Let's write ZHTTP!
18:56:45 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:56:57 -!- augur has joined.
18:58:20 -!- Zuu has joined.
18:58:20 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
18:58:20 -!- Zuu has joined.
18:59:07 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:00:18 <AnMaster> * cpressey is waiting for someone to implement Thue in an NSIS script <-- augh
19:00:29 <AnMaster> <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, would Hackiki and the bots be vulnerable to f00foids? <-- what are f00foids?
19:00:42 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, like f00f, only not f00f..
19:01:02 <AnMaster> ah
19:02:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Since f00f is obviously not dangerous on modern processors.
19:02:50 <AnMaster> cpressey, bash is a quite nice shell to tell the truth
19:03:01 <AnMaster> some prefer zsh, a bit too bloated for my taste
19:03:11 -!- derdon has joined.
19:03:22 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, he didn't say it wasn't, he just said that it had evolved into a language.
19:03:38 <Phantom_Hoover> And don't diss zsh.
19:03:38 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
19:04:02 <AnMaster> <Phantom_Hoover> Ooh, it has a TCP library. <-- bash has the /dev/tcp pseudo device
19:04:09 <AnMaster> used it for envbot
19:04:21 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, cool.
19:04:30 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, see man bash
19:04:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Did you write an HTTP server in it?
19:04:40 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, think it is client only
19:09:48 <pikhq> AnMaster: Does bash have an editor in it?
19:11:07 <AnMaster> pikhq, not afaik
19:11:15 <AnMaster> pikhq, unless you mean line editing
19:11:23 <pikhq> Text editor.
19:11:26 <AnMaster> pikhq, perhaps someone implemented one though
19:11:31 <AnMaster> but not afaik
19:11:50 <Gregor-P> Egad
19:13:39 <AnMaster> pikhq, does zsh?
19:13:50 <AnMaster> pikhq, I know busybox does, but that is kind of cheating
19:13:54 <pikhq> AnMaster: Yes.
19:13:57 <AnMaster> since it is so much more than a shell
19:13:59 <AnMaster> pikhq, wtf
19:14:10 <AnMaster> pikhq, link or it didn't happen
19:14:42 * pikhq looks for citation
19:15:03 <AnMaster> a screen shot works just fine
19:16:01 <pikhq> Hmm. No, zed got removed a while back.
19:16:49 <AnMaster> ah
19:17:52 * Sgeo__ watches the Professor Moriarty eps of TNG
19:20:19 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, there is a file editor in zsh, but it's limited and hacky. There's probably a better one.
19:20:41 <AnMaster> heh
19:20:52 <Phantom_Hoover> As I said, it provides a facility to edit the contents of variables, and it has a module that enables it to map files to variables.
19:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> So vared mapfile\[file] will allow you to edit it if you aren't interested in hitting return.
19:27:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:28:01 -!- sebbu has joined.
19:34:30 <augur> Sgeo__: TNG!
19:36:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo__, I suppose you don't have the new Sherlock Holmes series in the US yet.
19:44:14 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined.
19:47:33 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Ah, right, that was it.
19:47:44 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, huh?
19:47:48 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
19:47:54 <pikhq> 12:21 < Phantom_Hoover> So vared mapfile\[file] will allow you to edit it if you aren't interested in hitting return.
19:48:16 <Phantom_Hoover> That's hardly much of an editor, though.
19:48:34 <pikhq> Nor's ed. Your point?
19:48:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it's not as flamboyant as zsh tends to be.
19:49:05 <pikhq> Mmmm, zftp.
19:49:26 <Phantom_Hoover> ztcp? It has facilities to set up listeners.
19:51:14 <pikhq> There's also zselect.
19:51:38 <pikhq> ... And zcurses.
19:51:44 <pikhq> My god I could write an IRC client in zsh.
19:52:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
19:56:27 <Phantom_Hoover> You have no ambition!
19:57:06 <Gregor-P> You could write ... the hooks between Posix and VFS for Microcosm :P
19:59:26 -!- Zuu has joined.
19:59:33 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
19:59:33 -!- Zuu has joined.
20:25:33 <pikhq> Gregor-P: Or I could... DO NOTHING
20:25:35 <pikhq> MWAHAHAH
20:40:13 -!- zzo38 has joined.
20:41:11 <zzo38> I have written a gopher client in bash. I have also written a server in bash (but not gopher), the server I wrote is for receiving logs from the drive wiping program.
20:42:39 <coppro> hah
20:43:48 <Sgeo__> Everyone should write everything in Smalltalk!
20:44:11 <Sgeo__> /notserious
20:45:27 <Phantom_Hoover> For some reason, when I try to open LyX's own literate examples it tells me that literate-article.layout either doesn't work or doesn't exist.
20:47:40 <Phantom_Hoover> I have combed Synaptic for a quick fix, and haven't found anything.
20:49:28 <zzo38> You probably could write a HTTP server in bash, though, if you want to
20:49:52 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, assuming you have two-way TCP access, then yes.
20:49:58 <Phantom_Hoover> ZSH does give you this.
20:50:37 <zzo38> In bash I just used netcat for these things, there are things relied on external programs
20:51:03 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, BORING
20:51:51 <zzo38> The server I wrote was for receiving logs, the client was written in Python, and I simply modified it to connect to the server to send the logs. Each client is assigned a port number on the server to connect to, according to 1024 + the rightmost octet of its IP address.
20:52:32 <zzo38> The first line of the server script (other than the #! line) is like this: trap 'jobs -p | xargs kill' exit
20:52:34 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, what if two computers with the same final octet connect at once?
20:53:33 <zzo38> Phantom_Hoover: That won't happen. It is all a internal network and there aren't that many clients. It is designed so that each client has a unique final octet.
20:53:40 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, ah
20:54:59 <zzo38> The server script simply spawns netcat in keep listening mode and redirecting output to files "log.1024" and so on, all running in background (with & at end), and then sleeps forever until interrupted.
21:03:26 <Phantom_Hoover> See, if you were using ZSH you could do it with only builtins.
21:04:47 <pikhq> In Zsh you'd just get file descriptors and select on them.
21:05:08 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, exactly.
21:05:36 <pikhq> Yes, select. The system call. :)
21:16:54 -!- lafille has joined.
21:18:05 -!- lafille has quit (Client Quit).
21:25:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:37:22 -!- alise has joined.
21:37:30 <alise> Arson & Mathematics
21:37:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Huh?
21:38:02 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, incidentally, do you know about Multics' memory model?
21:38:13 <alise> --"tell me," he said, "why would I want to blow up the city?"--
21:38:17 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: No.
21:38:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it has the whole "disc and memory are undistinguished" thing.
21:38:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Obviously not with Lisp object.
21:39:03 <Phantom_Hoover> *s
21:40:42 <zzo38> I don't know whether the computers at FreeGeek have Zsh
21:40:43 <alise> Interesting.
21:41:15 <Phantom_Hoover> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-level_store
21:43:23 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
21:43:32 -!- tombom has joined.
21:44:04 <zzo38> I have seen a sign "STORE HOURS MON~THU 17:00-25:00" but I think I know what they might mean by that, though.
21:44:32 <Phantom_Hoover> zzo38, I don't see the problem.
21:45:42 <zzo38> There isn't 25 hours in a day. But they might mean 1AM next day is when they close. Still, it is a bit strange way to write it
21:46:02 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: hour :: (hour >= 0 && hour < 24) => Integral n
21:46:04 * Phantom_Hoover can't believe he didn't notice that.
21:46:27 <pikhq> Erm, that was odd.
21:46:35 <pikhq> hour :: (n >= 0 && n < 24) => Integral n
21:46:44 <pikhq> There, that's not absolutely revolting.
21:46:57 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:47:04 <pikhq> This torrent is mocking me.
21:47:13 <pikhq> 0.1 megabytes left.
21:49:08 <zzo38> Anime convention is tomorrow, and I do not have a mahjong table. TOO BAD
21:49:48 <pikhq> zzo38: Shougi table, though?
21:50:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Would it be possible to implement something approximating to the IO monad in Lazy K??
21:51:05 <Phantom_Hoover> s/??/?/
21:51:26 <zzo38> pikhq: I don't have one of those either, but I do some pieces and the paper board (the paper board is not as good as the proper one)
21:51:39 <alise> pikhq: Which torrent?
21:51:56 <coppro> alise: hey!
21:51:57 <pikhq> alise: The Decemberists discography.
21:52:02 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: No; monads require a type system.
21:52:18 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, hence "approximating".
21:52:22 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: The closest you could get would be stream-based IO. ... Which Lazy K already has.
21:52:42 <pikhq> (granted, it's limited to stdin and stdout, *but* it's still stream-based IO.)
21:55:10 <Phantom_Hoover> What I'm getting at is that there's no immediately obvious way of making a function that will just print some text, wherever it's called.
21:55:23 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Nor is there in Haskell.
21:55:40 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, OK, that wasn't correct wording.
21:55:53 <alise> coppro: Hi.
21:56:13 <pikhq> putStrLn will only print some text if it is somehow executed from main.
21:56:55 <pikhq> Much like a Lazy K function resulting in a string will only print some text if it is somehow part of the return value of the function executed by the Lazy K RTS.
21:57:43 <Phantom_Hoover> What my idea came down to was that you'd have something equivalent to a bind function, and then a function would return both its IO stuff and whatever its normal value was.
21:58:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Then abstractions would be done to make it all easy.
21:58:06 <oerjan> you certainly could implement the meat of an IO monad in lazy K
21:58:11 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, exactly.
21:58:28 <pikhq> oerjan: Yes, it's called stream-based IO, which Lazy K does...
21:58:36 <oerjan> it's very close to a State monad i think
21:58:45 <Sgeo__> (putStrLn "Hi", 5)?
21:58:46 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, more or less what I had.
21:58:46 <pikhq> You'd basically just be adding additional semantics to the input/output stream.
21:58:58 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Oh, you want tuples. ;)
21:59:08 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, you *have* them in Lazy K.
21:59:16 <pikhq> Yuh.
21:59:53 <oerjan> oh hm except a state monad isn't quite right
22:00:05 <oerjan> you want a state for the input but also a writer for the output
22:01:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, a function would get the current input stream, and return the modified input stream and whatever output it had.
22:02:00 <oerjan> and also a monadic return value
22:02:06 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, yes.
22:02:24 -!- cheater99 has joined.
22:03:27 <oerjan> \i -> (i', o, v)
22:03:52 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, \i, v -> (i', o, v)
22:03:56 <oerjan> \i f -> f i' o v
22:04:01 <oerjan> no...
22:04:07 <Phantom_Hoover> What's f?
22:04:26 <oerjan> that's just the obvious way of implementing a triple in lambda calculus
22:04:29 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, it's for the tuple.
22:04:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Carry on.
22:05:34 <oerjan> lessee return x = \i -> f i "" x
22:06:15 <oerjan> an output string would probably be implemented like that ShowS type
22:06:26 <oerjan> !haskell :info ShowS
22:06:28 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, you can just use (,,) notation for triples.
22:06:37 <EgoBot> type ShowS = String -> String -- Defined in GHC.Show
22:06:45 <zzo38> If I send a copy of a book and DVD to someone, which is a reimplementation of a old program they originally wrote but now lost the source-codes, what do you expect?
22:06:53 <oerjan> because that makes it easy to prepend and stuff
22:07:00 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, just use Church-encoded arrays of ints...
22:07:18 <Phantom_Hoover> It's how Lazy K does IO natively.
22:08:29 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: except you'd want easy composition, which is probably easier if you do it as a prepending function. that's why haskell _has_ the ShowS type after all
22:08:46 <oerjan> it makes output more efficient
22:09:01 <oerjan> (when nesting deeply)
22:11:09 <oerjan> x >>= f = \i -> let (i1, o1, v1) = x i; (i2, o2, v2) = f v1 i1 in (i2, o1 . o2, v2)
22:11:13 -!- SevenInchBread has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:11:26 <oerjan> replace . by ++ if you insist on using arrays
22:12:02 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, how does ShowS work?
22:12:30 <oerjan> !haskell shows True " testing"
22:12:34 <EgoBot> "True testing"
22:13:31 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, so shows takes a value and returns a function that will take a string and append it?
22:13:38 <oerjan> it prepends a string to the string it is given, usually contstructed from the showsPrec method of the ShowS class
22:13:46 <oerjan> *Show class
22:13:54 <oerjan> yep
22:14:08 <oerjan> shows = showsPrec 0 iirc
22:14:43 <oerjan> showsPrec takes a precedence value to get operators correctly parenthesized
22:15:39 <Phantom_Hoover> It seems that (cons x) . (cons y) is a function which appends its argument to [x,y]
22:15:50 <Phantom_Hoover> At least with Church pairs.
22:15:59 <oerjan> it should be
22:17:09 <oerjan> note that it should be able to be lazy so y isn't evaluated for printing just the first bit
22:17:31 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, yes, I know.
22:18:10 <oerjan> !haskell let s = show s in take 100 s
22:18:14 <EgoBot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
22:18:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Neat.
22:18:47 <oerjan> that one only works because the first " is given lazily
22:19:47 <alise> !haskell putStr (let s = show s in take 100 s)
22:19:48 <EgoBot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
22:19:55 <alise> Worst unary counter, or worst unary counter?
22:19:58 <oerjan> i recall trying a similar one based on Char rather than String and it fails due to accidental strictness
22:20:03 <alise> Wait, it isn't unary.
22:20:31 <oerjan> !haskell let s = concatMap show s in take 100 s
22:20:53 * oerjan didn't even get an error message?
22:20:54 <alise> 1, 3, 4, 15
22:20:56 <alise> is the first lengths
22:20:59 <alise> *are the
22:21:00 <oerjan> !haskell "Boo!"
22:21:13 <oerjan> s/4/7/
22:21:17 <alise> we need an !oeis
22:21:21 <oerjan> !help
22:21:23 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
22:21:29 <oerjan> !haskell "Boo!"
22:21:31 <EgoBot> "Boo!"
22:21:34 <oerjan> huh
22:21:46 <oerjan> !haskell :t let s = concatMap show s in take 100 s
22:21:50 <EgoBot> let s = concatMap show s in take 100 s :: [Char]
22:22:00 <oerjan> !haskell let s = concatMap show s in take 100 s
22:22:21 <alise> hmm
22:22:26 <alise> OEIS has no sequence for it
22:22:34 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, I think it's irregular.
22:22:43 <alise> well it has /some/ formula
22:22:45 <oerjan> a disturbing lack of output. anyhow i knew that doesn't work because for some reason the Show instance for Char does _not_ give the initial ' lazily. let's cheat.
22:22:54 <Sgeo__> alise, thoughts on Seaside and Aida?
22:22:57 <Phantom_Hoover> I get 1 3 7
22:23:11 <oerjan> !haskell let s = '\'' : tail (concatMap show s) in take 100 s
22:23:11 <alise> <alise> !haskell putStr (let s = show s in take 100 s)
22:23:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo__, How many more languages are you going to learn?
22:23:15 <alise> <EgoBot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
22:23:16 <alise> I mean this
22:23:17 <EgoBot> "'\\'''\\\\''\\'''\\'''\\'''\\\\''\\\\''\\'''\\'''\\\\''\\'''\\'''\\'''\\\\''\\'''\\'''\\'''\\\\''\\'''\\'''\\'''\\\\''\\\\''\\'''\\''"
22:23:23 <Sgeo__> Phantom_Hoover, those are both Smalltalk
22:23:23 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, it's definitely irregular.
22:23:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, not particularly...
22:23:43 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: that's not helpful
22:23:50 <Phantom_Hoover> !haskell let s = show s in take 100 s
22:23:52 <EgoBot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
22:24:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I get different numbers for the third block.
22:24:11 <Sgeo__> Phantom_Hoover, also, I love reading about languages
22:24:19 <oerjan> alise: it's just 2^n-1 duh
22:24:32 <oerjan> you miscounted the 7
22:24:52 <alise> 1, 3, 4, 15, 31 does not contain 7
22:24:57 <alise> do you mean the 4?
22:25:37 <oerjan> yes, s/4/7/ i said
22:25:55 <alise> ah
22:26:07 <oerjan> !show '\''
22:26:08 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
22:26:25 <oerjan> oh right...
22:26:37 <oerjan> !haskell let s = '\'' : tail (concatMap show s) in putStrLn $ take 100 s
22:26:38 <EgoBot> '\'''\\''\'''\'''\'''\\''\\''\'''\'''\\''\'''\'''\'''\\''\'''\'''\'''\\''\'''\'''\'''\\''\\''\'''\''
22:26:54 <oerjan> that's the Char variant
22:27:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Anyway, back to IO.
22:28:24 <Phantom_Hoover> So the output will be in appendable form.
22:28:53 * Sgeo__ wonders what FFI is like in VisualWorks
22:29:45 <oerjan> i think that's easier than figuring out another finite length array representation for Lazy K, anyhow
22:30:12 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
22:31:12 <oerjan> iirc Lazy K uses 256 for EOF marking, so appending lots of arrays in its _standard_ output format would be highly inefficient
22:31:12 <alise> argh! i can't kill opendns
22:31:19 <alise> brb, trying something
22:31:55 <oerjan> *concatenating
22:31:58 -!- sshc_ has joined.
22:32:15 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, what about the (cons a) . (cons b) thing?
22:32:45 <oerjan> Phantom_Hoover: i thought that's what i was suggesting?
22:33:03 <oerjan> cons a is what you use for a single character output
22:33:22 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, OK, everyone's happy.
22:33:33 -!- alise_ has joined.
22:33:35 <oerjan> yay
22:33:52 <alise_> yay
22:34:14 <Phantom_Hoover> yay
22:34:17 <AnMaster> yay'
22:34:42 -!- sshc has quit (*.net *.split).
22:34:43 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
22:34:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Urgh, Lazier has so many errors all of a sudden.
22:36:26 -!- coppro has quit (Changing host).
22:36:26 -!- coppro has joined.
22:36:26 <Phantom_Hoover> OTOH they are legitimate errors, so my previous Scheme must have been very forgiving.
22:36:26 -!- alise has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
22:36:54 -!- derdon has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:54 -!- jcp has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:55 -!- cal153 has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:56 -!- cheater99 has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:56 -!- Zuu has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:56 -!- MizardX has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:57 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:58 -!- Killerkid has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:58 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:58 -!- MigoMipo has quit (*.net *.split).
22:36:59 -!- Warrigal has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:00 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:00 -!- cpressey has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:01 -!- Leonidas has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:02 -!- myndzi has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:02 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:03 -!- oerjan has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:04 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split).
22:37:37 <AnMaster> oops
22:39:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:39:20 <Phantom_Hoover> All present and correct? Or incorrect, even?
22:39:31 <AnMaster> no, most people are not back yet
22:39:35 -!- cheater99 has joined.
22:39:36 -!- oerjan has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined.
22:39:36 -!- derdon has joined.
22:39:36 -!- jcp has joined.
22:39:36 -!- cpressey has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Killerkid has joined.
22:39:36 -!- MizardX has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined.
22:39:36 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
22:39:36 -!- cal153 has joined.
22:39:36 -!- myndzi has joined.
22:39:36 -!- fungot has joined.
22:39:36 -!- jix has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Warrigal has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Leonidas has joined.
22:39:36 -!- Deewiant has joined.
22:39:42 <Phantom_Hoover> Lazy bastards.
22:40:13 -!- Zuu has joined.
22:40:13 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
22:40:13 -!- Zuu has joined.
22:40:17 <alise_> DEAR TORRENT,
22:40:20 <alise_> Why did you swap your speed with pikhq's?
22:40:29 <alise_> I liked it when /I/ was the one downloading quickly.
22:40:33 <alise_> INSINCERELY,
22:40:34 <alise_> alise
22:40:45 <AnMaster> there
22:40:45 <AnMaster> they are
22:40:45 <AnMaster> aaaargh the lag
22:40:47 <AnMaster> 50 seconds
22:40:48 <AnMaster> 50+
22:41:13 -!- sshc_ has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:13 -!- mtve has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:13 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:14 -!- coppro has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:14 -!- SimonRC has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:14 -!- distant_figure has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:14 -!- yiyus has quit (*.net *.split).
22:41:17 -!- sshc has joined.
22:41:19 <AnMaster> alise_, what were you torrenting?
22:41:24 <AnMaster> aaaargh not another split
22:41:25 -!- SimonRC has joined.
22:41:29 <alise_> AnMaster: I'm torrenting Star Trek (2009).
22:41:30 -!- mtve has joined.
22:41:34 -!- distant_figure has joined.
22:41:39 <alise_> AnMaster: In raw Blu-Ray stream format, no less
22:41:41 <alise_> *less.
22:41:45 <AnMaster> alise_, how fun, is that one of the good or bad ones?
22:41:47 <alise_> All 4 GiB of it :|
22:41:48 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, so it's actually taking days?
22:41:52 <alise_> AnMaster: It's good.
22:41:59 <AnMaster> alise_, ah
22:42:10 <alise_> AnMaster: It's the alternate-universe-reboot type dealie.
22:42:22 <AnMaster> alise_, um, aren't those generally bad?
22:42:22 <alise_> AnMaster: (It's odd numbered, though, just as Nemesis was even-numbered; the widely-accepted solution is to put Galaxy Quest before Nemesis.)
22:42:37 <alise_> AnMaster: Well, a lot of the time, but everyone in here says it's good.
22:42:47 <AnMaster> alise_, were Nemesis TNG?
22:42:51 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:42:52 <alise_> AnMaster: The alternate universe is actually part of the plot, so.
22:42:54 <alise_> *was
22:42:58 <alise_> (to you)
22:42:59 <AnMaster> I think I watched it
22:43:05 <AnMaster> if it was
22:43:09 <alise_> Yes.
22:43:11 -!- yiyus__ has joined.
22:43:13 <alise_> I haven't watched it.
22:43:16 <alise_> Star Trek Nemesis is a 2002 science fiction film directed by Stuart Baird, written by John Logan (from a story developed by Logan, Brent Spiner, and producer Rick Berman), and with music composed by Jerry Goldsmith. It is the tenth feature film in the Star Trek franchise, and the fourth and final film to star the cast from the television series Star Trek: The Next Generation. It follows the mission of the crew of the USS Enterprise-E as they are forced to
22:43:18 <alise_> deal with a threat to the United Federation of Planets from a Reman clone of Captain Picard named Shinzon who has taken control of the Romulan Star Empire in a coup.
22:43:36 <Phantom_Hoover> The Reman Hypothesis..
22:43:36 <alise_> I watched First Contact a few days ago; really good film.
22:43:40 <alise_> (It was on TV.)
22:43:43 <AnMaster> hm
22:43:56 <AnMaster> alise_, unsure if I watched Nemesis or the one before that
22:44:03 <AnMaster> but it was TNG and I liked it
22:44:08 <AnMaster> watched it at cinema
22:44:16 <alise_> AnMaster: Both are (by very strong popular and fan opinion) terrible.
22:44:16 -!- Gregor-L has joined.
22:44:24 <alise_> Nemesis esp. so.
22:44:29 <alise_> AnMaster: Sure it wasn't First Contact?
22:44:33 <alise_> That was TNG and good.
22:44:37 <AnMaster> alise_, no clue
22:44:43 <AnMaster> alise_, I don't remember the story even
22:44:46 <AnMaster> just a few scenes
22:44:52 <alise_> AnMaster: First Contact saw Zefram Cochrane the drunkard.
22:44:55 <AnMaster> alise_, they found a copy of Data iirc?
22:45:00 <alise_> Also, Borg.
22:45:01 <alise_> Hm, no.
22:45:08 <AnMaster> alise_, does that sound familar at all?
22:45:17 <alise_> Not to me.
22:45:19 <AnMaster> hm
22:45:38 <AnMaster> alise_, it was of paramount importance to the plot
22:45:39 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: ZZT?).
22:45:46 <AnMaster> alise_, so should be easy to find
22:46:02 <AnMaster> if only I could remember the plot...
22:46:15 -!- coppro has joined.
22:46:15 <alise_> It was Nemesis you saw; I checked.
22:46:15 -!- coppro has quit (Changing host).
22:46:15 -!- coppro has joined.
22:46:22 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:46:23 <AnMaster> alise_, hm, I liked it though
22:46:25 <alise_> And if the opinion of anyone who's ever existed is anything to go by, you have terrible taste.
22:46:47 <Sgeo__> Copy of data?
22:46:47 <AnMaster> alise_, I haven't watched any of the good movies, maybe that is why?
22:46:54 <Sgeo__> That sounds like an ep of TNG, not a movie
22:46:56 <AnMaster> Sgeo__, Data, not data
22:47:04 <Sgeo__> AnMaster, yeah yeah, I know
22:47:09 <alise_> Sgeo__: It's Nemesis.
22:47:30 <AnMaster> Sgeo__, otherwise I would just cp the log file of this irc channel and claim it as a TNG episode
22:48:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, implementing Lazy K in Haskell seems like a very good idea.
22:48:37 <alise_> AnMaster: The good ones are, according to the Galaxy Quest-Amended Even-Odd Star Trek Movie Theory, backed up by fan opinion and IMDB ratings, The Wrath of Khan, The Voyage Home, The Undiscovered Country, First Contact, and Star Trek (2009).
22:48:52 <Phantom_Hoover> The current interpreter has a quasi-memory leak.
22:48:55 <alise_> AnMaster: I can back up The Undiscovered Country and First Contact, and if this torrent gets off its fat, lazy ass, (2009).
22:49:10 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, 'coz Haskell totally ISN'T known for leaking memory like a sieve.
22:49:41 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, I suppose that's why it sucks?
22:50:13 <alise_> I was simply remarking that Haskell is known to be a memory leaker.
22:50:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the current interpreter is also written in C++.
22:50:41 <Sgeo__> I saw the Moriarty eps today
22:51:52 <AnMaster> alise_, was The Voyage Home the one they went back in time in?
22:52:09 <alise_> According to Wikipedia, it seems so.
22:52:09 <AnMaster> and Scotty(?) saying how quaint about a computer
22:52:14 <alise_> They went back in time in First Contact too.
22:52:19 <AnMaster> if so, it was awesome
22:52:23 <AnMaster> alise_, the ones with whales
22:52:31 <AnMaster> one*
22:52:47 <AnMaster> alise_, which one was the one with whales?
22:52:51 <alise_> The Voyage Home takes place in 2286, it seems.
22:52:55 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, Lazier has suddenly broken on me.
22:53:06 <AnMaster> alise_, does it include _whales_
22:53:08 <alise_> AnMaster: I haven't seen one with whales.
22:53:16 <AnMaster> hm
22:53:17 <alise_> Yes.
22:53:18 <alise_> Yes it is.
22:53:24 <alise_> The Voyage Home had WALES.
22:53:26 <alise_> Fuckin' WHALES!
22:53:28 <alise_> *WHALES
22:53:28 <Phantom_Hoover> I can only assume that it's a Mandelbug, since I changed nothing.
22:53:30 <alise_> It might have also had Wales.
22:53:31 <AnMaster> alise_, yeah, awesome then, and somewhat commical
22:53:33 <AnMaster> comical*
22:53:46 <AnMaster> alise_, since they went back to the 1990s or such
22:53:57 <AnMaster> or maybe 1980s
22:54:02 <AnMaster> not sure when it was recorded
22:55:36 <alise_> Incidentally, here is my Twenty-Second "Tuvix": Tuvok and Neelix, in a horrific transporter accident, merge to form a funny, hardworking and caring genius. Everyone is horrified that life is so much better now, but gets used to it; apart from Kes, who is devestated that her awful Neelix is now much more bearable. Janeway decides to kill Tuvix. Tuvix protests. Janeway kills Tuvix anyway, and Neelix and Tuvok return. The end!
22:55:41 <alise_> Worst. Episode. Ever.
22:57:18 <cpressey> Please don't mention those names in my presence.
22:58:11 <alise_> cpressey: Allergic reaction?
22:58:23 <cpressey> Yes, much worse than I expected.
22:58:36 <cpressey> I must really hate that show, or something.
22:58:38 <alise_> cpressey: If you learn to control your emotions, Voyager becomes the highest point of comedy witnessed by any human being.
22:58:42 <cpressey> Not the show, so much as the characters.
22:58:43 <AnMaster> alise_, I don't remember them
22:58:43 <alise_> -- Just like a Vulcan would do!
22:59:02 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, when I try to run Lazier on stuff it says "K[#<procedure:curried>]"
22:59:04 <alise_> AnMaster: Voyager.
22:59:12 <Phantom_Hoover> mzscheme, incidentally.
22:59:17 <AnMaster> alise_, watched a few episodes of it
22:59:22 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: You're printing a procedure without calling it.
22:59:24 <alise_> AnMaster: My condolences.
22:59:31 <AnMaster> alise_, not many
22:59:35 <AnMaster> alise_, anyway, some were good
22:59:42 <AnMaster> not saying all were in any way
22:59:45 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, that really shouldn't be happening; it worked fine a while ago.
22:59:46 <AnMaster> just that some was not bad
22:59:50 <AnMaster> were*
23:00:36 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: And now it does not.
23:01:03 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, and it does if I try with plt-r5rs rather than mzscheme.
23:01:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Meh, I can live with that
23:01:39 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, what is Lazier
23:01:59 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, compiler from the lambda calculus into SKI.
23:02:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, Lazy K, since it supports the Iota and Jot notations as well as CC and Unlambda.
23:02:26 <cpressey> alise_: You know, I used to refer to "The X-Files" as "But Sculder".
23:02:36 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, mhm
23:02:50 <AnMaster> cpressey, heh?
23:02:57 <cpressey> Because, you know, it was always, "But Mulder, science!", then, "But Scully, evidence!"
23:03:09 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, written in slightly nonstandard Scheme, which seems to be at least part of the problem.
23:03:10 <AnMaster> hahah
23:03:41 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: mzscheme is non-standard.
23:03:46 <alise_> R5RS is standard.
23:03:51 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, ah, that explains it.
23:03:59 <alise_> cpressey: :D
23:04:16 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, you should probably upgrade; PLT Scheme no longer exists, it's Racket now.
23:04:20 <Phantom_Hoover> (It was non-standard to start with; it had unquoted () and ifs without elses.)
23:04:29 <AnMaster> alise_, how comes
23:04:29 <alise_> unquoted (), ew.
23:04:30 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, DAMN YOU, APT!
23:04:33 <AnMaster> I wondered about that
23:04:40 <AnMaster> when I saw package name replacement
23:04:41 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: if without else is, I believe, standard; the return value is unspecific.
23:04:59 <cpressey> alise_: Wtf? I wish they'd stop doing that
23:05:06 <cpressey> "Racket">
23:05:11 <cpressey> s/>/?/
23:05:12 <alise_> AnMaster: Because "PLT Scheme" is not very like a Scheme any more, it has diverged quite a lot; and they're sick of people considering it just a non-standard dialect of Scheme, rather than an independent language/platform.
23:05:18 <alise_> cpressey: Synonym of "Scheme".
23:05:26 <AnMaster> alise_, ah
23:05:31 <alise_> I don't have any problem wit hthe name change; they had good enough reasons.
23:05:33 <AnMaster> haha
23:05:36 <alise_> *with the
23:05:51 <alise_> Indeed, I find myself respecting them more; they're creating a language, not butchering Scheme.
23:05:52 <AnMaster> alise_, does it still provide a r5rs implementation?
23:05:58 <cpressey> alise_: Groan. Can I now expect a bunch of 30's-gangster-lingo-inspired names for tools?
23:06:02 <alise_> AnMaster: Yes, along with all its other little languages.
23:06:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, look, APT doesn't have Racket.
23:06:11 <alise_> cpressey: No, they don't like naming their tools very creatively. :P
23:06:15 <alise_> Their web server is called "web-server".
23:06:16 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, pacman does
23:06:21 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, use an up-to-date distro
23:06:31 <alise_> "X doesn't have some new software." "Change your entire operating system to Y."
23:06:35 <cpressey> alise_: Well there was that whole Mz*, Mr*, Dr* cutseyness they were doing...
23:06:37 <alise_> Noooooooooo
23:06:47 <Phantom_Hoover> alise_, what Scheme implementation would you recommend, then?
23:06:51 <alise_> cpressey: Oh, for once I'm going to tell you to cheer up. It's not a huge deal :P
23:06:54 <alise_> Phantom_Hoover: mzscheme should be fine.
23:07:00 <AnMaster> <alise_> Their web server is called "web-server". <--- aww, they really need to use 30's-gangster-lingo-inspired names!
23:07:00 <alise_> Just use R5RS mode if you want to write Scheme.
23:07:49 <cpressey> alise_: I'm not that miffed by it, I've just been disappointed by the direction PLT has been going in since I first heard of it...
23:08:14 <alise_> cpressey: Where was it at that you wanted it to move in a different direction from?
23:09:34 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:09:38 <Sgeo__> o.O at the nonexistant PLT Scheme
23:09:48 <alise_> *nonexistent
23:09:56 <Sgeo__> I can never spell that wrod
23:10:05 <alise_> *wdor
23:10:11 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:10:18 <cpressey> alise_: It has seemed to get cheesier and less organized as time has passed. I dunno, maybe it's just my perception of it. They had a good thing with DrScheme, then overextended themselves, I think.
23:10:19 <Sgeo__> *wdro
23:10:21 <AnMaster> drow*
23:10:33 <alise_> cpressey: Perhaps, perhaps; such are things.
23:10:41 <AnMaster> hah, I got first to another word which actually exists!
23:13:00 <Sgeo__> My old computer teacher wants my help rewording an advertisement for programmers
23:13:04 <GreaseMonkey> tip of the day: wasd is not useful for navigating a text editor
23:13:09 <Sgeo__> And advice on where to post
23:13:21 <Sgeo__> Why she thinks I'm a manager-sort person, I have no idea
23:13:22 <GreaseMonkey> bear that in mind if you're editing a game's source code
23:13:45 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, um, I never found wasd sensible in games either
23:13:46 <Sgeo__> GreaseMonkey, fork vi!
23:13:56 <AnMaster> as in, I found arrows easier
23:14:08 <GreaseMonkey> but then i'd have to come up with terms which start with hjkl!
23:14:11 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster well, if you have the mouse in your right hand, using wasd is more convenient.
23:14:13 <alise_> Sgeo__: You don't have to do work for free.
23:14:15 <Sgeo__> AnMaster, same here until Portal, due to Active Worlds
23:14:26 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, that varies
23:14:29 <GreaseMonkey> "now you jearch for your thing, and if you're not happy you helete it"
23:14:37 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, not on a laptop with a touchpad.
23:14:43 <cpressey> "Racket programmers are Racketeers, of course."
23:14:50 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, I use the trackpoint on my laptop
23:15:00 <Sgeo__> alise_, rewording something and knowing where to ask for programmers is actually a paying job somewhere?
23:15:04 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, and on desktop I shift mouse regularly to avoid strain on either hand
23:15:11 <GreaseMonkey> so i have to somehow remip some crap for cube (implementing room-over-room here)
23:15:33 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, cube? as in the geometrical shape?
23:15:43 <GreaseMonkey> there's a game (engine) called cube
23:15:56 <GreaseMonkey> it's another fps
23:15:57 <alise_> Sgeo__: No, but that's irrelevant.
23:15:58 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, ah wasn't there are CUBE II?
23:16:06 <GreaseMonkey> yes but that's nearly 500MB now
23:16:07 <alise_> Sgeo__: You don't have to do shit like that for free.
23:16:13 <GreaseMonkey> cube 1 is ~30MB
23:16:14 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, so not using that?
23:16:25 <GreaseMonkey> correct
23:16:36 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, better graphics iirc?
23:16:39 <Sgeo__> alise_, even if I wanted to help, which I do, I'd be clueless. She also suggested that I actually do work on this project, which I assume wouldn't be non-paying
23:16:40 <GreaseMonkey> the way i'm doing ROR is i'm adding in a way of rendering a middle slice
23:16:46 <GreaseMonkey> from the screenshots, yes
23:16:52 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, there you go then
23:16:56 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, IIRC I tried it
23:17:03 <AnMaster> some time ago
23:17:07 <GreaseMonkey> but there's, like, .kkrieger or something
23:17:10 <GreaseMonkey> which is 96KB
23:17:12 <AnMaster> didn't like it, due to the fps nature
23:17:16 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, ??
23:17:28 <GreaseMonkey> i never got .kkrieger to work though :/
23:17:30 <Sgeo__> It's some stupid question thing. I vaguely suggested Django due to the builtin admin stuff :/
23:17:37 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, wtf is .kkrieger
23:17:38 <GreaseMonkey> but it's an FPS which they shoved into 96KB
23:18:18 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, many procedural textures?
23:18:21 <alise_> GreaseMonkey: they distribute the engine too
23:18:24 <alise_> .theprodukkt
23:18:26 <alise_> or something
23:18:28 <alise_> AnMaster: yes
23:18:35 <alise_> AnMaster: it has high-quality graphics, too
23:18:35 <AnMaster> alise_, hm
23:18:41 <GreaseMonkey> yeah .kkrieger is really procedural or something
23:18:51 <alise_> ah, it's .werkkzeug3
23:18:55 <fizzie> .werkkzeug is the name of the tool, right.
23:19:04 <alise_> AnMaster: Screenshot porn: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Kkrieger_screenshot_01.jpg
23:19:05 <fizzie> .theprodukkt is sort of the project.
23:19:18 <fizzie> It's by a demoscene group, somewhat unsurprisingly.
23:19:35 <AnMaster> how so?
23:19:51 <alise_> How so unsurprising?
23:19:56 <AnMaster> alise_, their own screenshots look better
23:20:03 <GreaseMonkey> yuss i think i have remipping working or something
23:20:04 <alise_> Because they're the guys who do this kind of stuff on a competition-type schedule basis.
23:20:07 <AnMaster> than wikipedias
23:20:15 <alise_> AnMaster: who cares, it's 96 KiB, impressive no matter how you slice it
23:20:22 <AnMaster> alise_, true
23:20:40 <fizzie> Right; also the stuffing stuff into tiny packages expertise is there.
23:20:40 <alise_> AnMaster: http://seboist64.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/kkrieger2.jpg
23:20:46 <alise_> even more impressive or whatever
23:20:46 <cpressey> does it have a scripting language
23:20:51 <alise_> fizzie: that's what i meant by this-kind-of-stuff
23:20:54 <AnMaster> alise_, agreed
23:21:07 <alise_> cpressey: .werkkzeug?
23:21:24 <alise_> no, it's just a procedural thingymabob generation tool (though it has a pseudo-language built in it seems)
23:22:48 <fizzie> I'm sure they have some sort of unreleased more-than-just-textures tool, internally; I mean, the one available from the site is called ".werkkzeug 3 TE", for "Texture Edition".
23:23:10 <fizzie> And .werkkzeug1 does all kinds of demo-things.
23:23:37 <GreaseMonkey> actually it needs some more tweaking but at least it kinda works!
23:23:55 <GreaseMonkey> and i'm off, cya
23:24:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style.).
23:24:55 <fizzie> They also have that exe-packer, kkrunchy: http://www.farbrausch.de/~fg/kkrunchy/
23:26:19 <fizzie> There's trickery involved; there's a x86 disassembler-preprocessor-transmogrifier that does "stuff" to make the end result more compressible with LZ-family compression things.
23:27:32 <Phantom_Hoover> You know, keeping the whole input stream is probably a good idea...
23:27:48 <Phantom_Hoover> (For the Lazy K IO stuff.)
23:28:38 <fizzie> That kkrunchy, and 4klang (a software synthesizer thing designed for 4k intros), were used in great many productions at the recent asm2010 thing; everyone's using the same tools nowadays.
23:30:59 <fizzie> And crinkler, too; it's an exe-packer specifically targeting the lucrative 4k market segment.
23:33:18 <AnMaster> "lucrative"?
23:33:33 <AnMaster> how much does it cost then?
23:33:41 <fizzie> Well, if they didn't give it away free-as-in-beer, it'd be a moneymaker, I'm sure.
23:33:48 <AnMaster> ah
23:34:35 <fizzie> All this is for Windows, of course; it's the market leader there. (Possibly because they have that "import stuff from DLLs via ordinal"; shared-library ELFs have both horribly huge headers, and even if you trick past those you still need to include the full function name as a string. Those easily add up.)
23:35:36 <AnMaster> hm true
23:36:12 <AnMaster> fizzie, those ordinals... wouldn't those change in new versions of dlls?
23:36:23 <fizzie> They try not to change existing ones, I think.
23:36:27 <fizzie> But sure, they might.
23:36:28 <AnMaster> ah
23:36:44 -!- Zuu has joined.
23:36:44 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
23:36:44 -!- Zuu has joined.
23:36:47 <AnMaster> fizzie, can you import by name too?
23:36:56 <fizzie> You can, if you don't mind the bytes.
23:37:06 <fizzie> Importing by name might even be the default linker behaviour these days.
23:37:13 <AnMaster> hah :P
23:37:31 -!- Zuu has quit (Client Quit).
23:38:07 -!- Zuu has joined.
23:38:51 <fizzie> I did recently crunch a not-exactly-optimized rotating OpenGL cube (21 imports from Xlib, libGL, libGLU; most with rather long names) into a 1024-byte executable, so I'm sure with enough effort you could get some sort of reasonable Linux 4k intro done. (I think there actually was one at asm2010, though not an especially impressive one. Maybe I should peek at how it was made.)
23:40:07 * Sgeo__ really likes the idea of Newspeak. Maybe if it settles down in 5-10 years, I'll fall in love
23:41:35 <pikhq> Oh, *beautiful*.
23:41:41 <pikhq> Conservapedia's denying relativity again.
23:41:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, what is it this time?
23:42:04 <pikhq> Anti-Jesus conspiracy.
23:42:07 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, what's new?
23:42:10 <Flonk> Conservapedia? :D
23:42:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, also, aren't they doing it all the time anyway
23:42:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Flonk, Google it.
23:42:26 <pikhq> AnMaster: No, for quite some time they had a reasonable article on relativity.
23:42:49 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, that counterexamples page has been there for ages.
23:43:06 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Hmm.
23:43:12 <pikhq> Still. Gah. Idjits.
23:43:25 <Phantom_Hoover> Look at the history, although CP are very Orwellian.
23:44:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, huh, did they change it after that?
23:44:55 <cpressey> It's not that they deny the theory that's funny, it's that they do it because they associate it with social and/or moral relativism.
23:44:55 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, Schlafly's own brother has called him out on relativity and he hasn't listened.
23:45:25 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, that and the "Jesus showed action at a distance! The disciples had atomic clocks!"
23:45:35 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, who is Schlafly?
23:45:46 <cpressey> Well yes, that's it's own little sub-hilarity
23:45:49 <Phantom_Hoover> AnMaster, owner and head admin of CP.
23:45:53 <pikhq> cpressey: Well, yeah. There are actual legitimate claims against relativity. Such as how quantum mechanics doesn't work with it.
23:45:56 <pikhq> And...
23:46:00 <pikhq> I think that's about it, actually.
23:46:03 <AnMaster> Phantom_Hoover, huh
23:46:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Schlafly also claims that Newtonian mechanics work fine if you "tweak" the inverse square law.
23:47:13 <Phantom_Hoover> He therefore demonstrates a lack of understanding of Newtonian mechanics, as well as relativity.
23:48:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, they tie Barack Obama, relativity and abortion all into the one counterexample.
23:49:10 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:55:06 <pikhq> Wow.
23:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> It's more or less "Barack Obama helped write a paper which used relativity to justify abortion."
23:59:55 <AnMaster> that makes no sense
←2010-08-11 2010-08-12 2010-08-13→ ↑2010 ↑all