< 1281744000 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281744009 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281744010 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, the problem comes down to do { putChar 'a' ; c <- getChar ; putChar 'b' ; putChar c } < 1281744047 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have tested this, and by default it prints "ab", and then reads the character and prints it. < 1281744056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: getChar needs to make its (empty) output strict in its input < 1281744080 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait, I think I have an idea. < 1281744125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, my tests are now maxing out the clipboard. < 1281744129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... < 1281744153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getChar i = case i of (c:rest) -> (rest, id, c) | otherwise = error something < 1281744159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*otherwise -> < 1281744170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*; otherwise -> < 1281744202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is the exact implementation I have. < 1281744219 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the important part there is that getting to the id _must_ force looking at i strictly < 1281744243 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it does a strict match, not a lazy one < 1281744283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes; my experimentation has shown that trivial arithmetic identities work for that. < 1281744338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it might have to force looking at c, depending on whether lazy k's input _spine_ forces any input or not < 1281744373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the spine being the cons cells but not their cars, in essence) < 1281744404 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm just going to make getchar look at c. < 1281744415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1281744466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...And it doesn't seem to work. < 1281744500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably because bind can't look at what's in the first argument. < 1281744501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are you sure that looking at the output of a >>= f looks at the output of a first? < 1281744503 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quick, simplify sum(ceil(log a_i)) - ceil(sum(log a_i)) < 1281744536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281744541 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-☃ + x < 1281744549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the _output_ part from a >>= f can look at the first argument, is what i've been saying < 1281744605 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://pastebin.com/BE3FAMVD is the current definition of bind; critique away. < 1281744612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is of the form ao . fo, and when you apply that laziness causes you to look at ao first < 1281744623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: AAARGH < 1281744735 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is feeling very odd. < 1281744738 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Dammit < 1281744745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But it's interestiiing! < 1281744748 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot make myself believe that London is the capital of the UK. < 1281744752 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why < 1281744763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name just suddenly seems utterly unfamiliar. < 1281744767 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: As opposed to? < 1281744791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the (o xout ...) should _not_ be inside an invocation of f < 1281744800 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, thanks. < 1281744820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it isn't, it's the capital of england < 1281744830 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok the uk too < 1281744832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but primarily england! < 1281744847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, seriously? You need to learn some geography. < 1281744866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that it was primarily the capital of England! < 1281744876 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to reassure you, sheesh. < 1281744912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the feeling's kind of gone, though I still think "London? What a weird name" involuntarily. < 1281744987 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm surprised the value of (sum(ceil(log a_i)) - ceil(sum(log a_i))) isn't a common thing, actually. < 1281744998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: hm well it should be possible to write a_i = base^n * c_i where 1 < c_i <= base and then i think replacing a_i by c_i gives the same result < 1281745010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's how more efficient the optimal representation of a structure is vs. the easy representation. < 1281745015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Consider base-2.) < 1281745024 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281745037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. multiplying an a_i with a power of the base does not change the result < 1281745073 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does that actually help? :D < 1281745095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the first sum is just the number of the a_i's < 1281745107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(all those ceilings are 1) < 1281745153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, wait, where should I be concatenating the output lists for bind? < 1281745160 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm < 1281745171 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does this actually simplify anything though? < 1281745180 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281745182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- let's call the length of a n -- < 1281745193 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Router likes crapping on me < 1281745211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: everyone knows london is a small town on Mars, near the capital of O'Wobble < 1281745226 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and should I concatenate lists there? < 1281745242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0011E5RNO/ < 1281745245 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function generator! < 1281745343 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sound also likes crapping on me < 1281745346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRB < 1281745357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, however your representation must be such that when looking at (o xout fout), evaluation of fout (i.e. essentially application of f) is not triggered by looking at the xout part < 1281745379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well lists or functions, i don't think that matters for this issue < 1281745455 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can't really see how that can be done. < 1281745478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: any properly lazy language can do that >:) < 1281745541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it takes two minutes for the window with shutdown options to appear < 1281745544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why shouldn't it? < 1281745548 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well, the result of a bind has to be a triple which includes the concatenated output, yes? < 1281745569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I change the whole architecture of the system. < 1281745577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes, but there is no reason why returning that triple should require evaluating all the parts of it < 1281745674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess the trouble here is how to make a lazy triple of stuff from the corresponding strict version < 1281745701 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how does the current implementation require evaluation of the entire triple? < 1281745702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Suggestion: A completely new .XCompose that doesn't include the default ones, since they suck. < 1281745712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, relevant. < 1281745724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/triple/output/ < 1281745745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I was just suggesting it randomly. < 1281745761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, some of the defaults are useful. < 1281745761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well it requires the application of _f_ just to look at the xout part, which is the real problem. < 1281745776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"+char for diæresis is helful. < 1281745777 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1281745780 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*p < 1281745784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, yes. < 1281745794 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, but altogether it has a bunch of crappy bindings, and it'd be far better to just do it again ourselves. < 1281745833 0 :Gregor-W!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1281745839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281745855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I stuck the tuple unpacking in the application to f because the alternative was pretty ugly. < 1281745884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you have a triple function, hm < 1281745973 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281745983 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Suggestion: MetaCompose, a program for spitting out compose files! < 1281745985 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281746002 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write: "a ä < 1281746003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it spits out < 1281746012 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <"> : "ä" < 1281746029 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, more helpful if it lets you iterate. < 1281746034 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: you probably need to generate the triple from f as a lazy variable, then construct the final triple from that < 1281746043 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm thinking it could run it through some type of templating thing. < 1281746045 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hang on, I'm working on it. < 1281746090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, how is iterating more helpful? < 1281746116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, yeah, I didn't really think that through. < 1281746145 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It'd only be helpful if you had a diaeresise() function, which would be just as hard as manually listing them. < 1281746153 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, true. < 1281746203 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281746258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION declares the logs too long today < 1281746360 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Hmm, how could space be represented? < 1281746368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the separator should be tab. < 1281746438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, changed bind to http://pastebin.com/LwX0A14t , no change in behaviour. < 1281746444 0 :tombom__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281746461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Although that's a bit confusing. < 1281746487 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, quote if it has spaces? < 1281746491 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or backslash? < 1281746561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hm i don't know why that wouldn't work < 1281746567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Perhaps. < 1281746594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you might want f xv xin to be shared, that shouldn't have anything to do with this problem... < 1281746613 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but what about <"> ? :D < 1281746627 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, \"\ < 1281746704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Vomit. < 1281746704 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can only assume Gould wanted me to suffer. < 1281746713 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: good luck debugging this >:( < 1281746724 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, or just backslashes for everything. < 1281746734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Vomitochondria. < 1281746754 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, because only backslash and space need escaping. < 1281746783 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For everything else, it's all pretty. < 1281746789 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1281747054 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281747533 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga should be online: http://garfieldminusgarfield.net/post/948073732 < 1281747892 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281747913 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281747973 0 :CakeProphet!~adam@h69.9.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281747983 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a robot < 1281748023 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bobot < 1281748089 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am an eccentric robot who longs to be human. < 1281748118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(As indicated in a Facebook comment I made on Aug. 7 :P) < 1281748157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bored dot < 1281748293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a dored bot. < 1281748696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, "Time" was as awesome as I thought it'd be < 1281748872 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a bored hole. < 1281749577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/01 < 1281749696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely finds Warrigal on Reddit < 1281749777 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find a comment by uorygl on Reddit? < 1281749906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1281749934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone write an assembler for ByteByteJump. >_> < 1281749958 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat. Which one? < 1281749993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your two most recent non-submissions < 1281749996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1281750009 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods. < 1281750090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Link me to your munger thing that spits out an image, not that silly web interface, plz < 1281750099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why :/? < 1281750114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php < 1281750128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What are the paramateroodlies? < 1281750139 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation in http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.phps < 1281750158 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Source code = documentation) < 1281750174 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    "-1" => "joey", < 1281750176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    "05" => "05-5.1", < 1281750176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    "16" => "16-1", < 1281750176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    "40" => "40.5", < 1281750176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    "447" => "447-2" < 1281750176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaaaat < 1281750193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ignore those :P < 1281750205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /var/www/imgs/dinosaurComic.php on line 171 < 1281750223 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, it appears to be borkleborked. < 1281750229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care to fix it right now X-P < 1281750236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is IMPORTANT! < 1281750241 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be the best lonelydino submission EVER. < 1281750249 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I need that script to do it. < 1281750277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It works, just slowly. < 1281750293 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yo yo your IDs totally map incorrectly < 1281750296 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, why is it being slow ... < 1281750305 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless ?comics= doesn't mean the strip IDs in the URLs??? < 1281750307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IDs map correctly, just not to the IDs at qwantz.com/?here < 1281750320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The strip IDs are as mentioned in the filename, not the URL. < 1281750347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ... hypothetically ... if these strips were not numbered, but named? < 1281750383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I would need to adjust the script to handle them, but since they're probably not the right size and/or don't have the right configuration to work anyway, it's sort of a whocaresish situation. < 1281750398 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you read /r/atheism regularly? < 1281750411 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on my frontpage < 1281750415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But dammit, I could submit a comic including "panels" of http://www.qwantz.com/comics/smbc.gif! < 1281750425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that other self-drawn guest comic of late! < 1281750429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still claim it only has the T-Rex panels in! < 1281750436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus creating the weirdest, most cut-off T-Rex is Lonely strip ever! < 1281750441 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it... POSTMODERNISM. < 1281750443 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no :P < 1281750462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you and die. < 1281750486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1772 also < 1281750504 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1771 < 1281750532 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I see what the issue is X-D < 1281750537 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1771 < 1281750544 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1281750547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guest comics were confusing my "last-comic-value" calculator. < 1281750563 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1769 (<3 this one) < 1281750585 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you find it valuable in any way, or just entertaining? < 1281750587 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1768 < 1281750594 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php E_WORKSAGAIN < 1281750611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1281750612 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst error message ever. < 1281750632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the feared Warrigal inquisition! < 1281750652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?strip=true&comics=samandfuzzy&panels=1,2,3,4,5 WHAT IS IT THAT IS GOING ON HERE < 1281750682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO http://www.qwantz.com/comics/badmachinery.png < 1281750684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1767 < 1281750701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: If you munge it manually, and I like it (doubtful), I can still put it up :P < 1281750741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Do you like glitch music? < 1281750757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no? What's "glitch music" < 1281750759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, you will LOVE my not-strictly-only-T-Rex T-Rex-panels-only cut-off-and-clipped T-REX IS LONELY comic production! < 1281750766 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Imagine a bunch of audial glitches. < 1281750770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat for minutes. < 1281750772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is glitch music. < 1281750835 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Glitch.ogg < 1281750838 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: glitch music < 1281750866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of it is ... much more glitchy than that < 1281751045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should turn my A/C on at some point < 1281751111 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281751356 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281751367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, with Chrome 6, I can barely tell the difference between an incognito window and a regular one < 1281751367 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-124-206-72.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281751389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Color difference is too subtle. Guess I have to look for the shady guy in glasses < 1281751404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Can you change the colors? < 1281751467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how, nor do I care to bother >. < 1281751468 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> < 1281751489 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281752095 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281752107 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281752411 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Album ReplayGain: awesome thing, or most awesome thing? < 1281752473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Reasonably awesome. < 1281752484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: INSUFFICIENT ENTHUSIASM. < 1281752500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Now what's *awesome* is albums that actually have dynamic range. < 1281752512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck the loudness war. < 1281752548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And album ReplayGain retains dynamic range in albums that have it. < 1281752579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281752580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one album that has something like no dynamic range at all, but it's intentional. < 1281752663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is royally fucked up that we've got about 90 dB of dynamic range and maybe 10 dB are used. < 1281752680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1281752697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind the lack of dynamic range when it's intentional, though. < 1281752702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in most cases, it's not, it's just shitty mixing. < 1281752736 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm complaining about shitty mixing. < 1281752761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/GiveItAwayLoudnessComparison.png Not that I care about this song, but this is an atrocity. < 1281752780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1991 vs. 2003 mastering of "Give It Away" by "Red Hot Chili Peppers") < 1281752785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last version must sound truly, truly awful. < 1281752792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's clipping ... constantly ... < 1281752839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the song is made of clip. < 1281753802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaaah*, FLAC. < 1281753961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, FLAC, that wonderful thing that you can't tell from MP3 but still makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside! < 1281753977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I can hear MP3 artifacts, mostly on percussion. < 1281753977 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The annexation of your disk space feels so nice. <3 < 1281753989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not with lame -V2 --joint-stereo, you can't. < 1281753993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Don't argue. You're wrong.) < 1281754000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but we're not dealing with well-encoded MP3s here. < 1281754004 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1281754015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random, pirated ones. FLAC is the only way to get reasonable audio out of that. < 1281754038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I like being able to transcode to arbitrary formats... < 1281754066 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a device can handle AAC or Ogg, not just MP3, it's damned well getting the smaller-but-better files. < 1281754104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a device can handle AAC, Ogg or MP3, it damned well should be getting the smaller-but-better files anyway! < 1281754172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would like to be able to instantly switch to some magical, fairy-dust "30kbps gets you transparency" format in the future for devices without terabytes to work with. :P < 1281754241 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, a well-encoded MP3 sounds quite good. (though 320kbps ones make me want to kill someone, anyways) < 1281754322 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/music/ OK, it's rough, but I've updated my music page. < 1281754328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The menus are autogen'd :) < 1281754382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Needs moar FLAC < 1281754401 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Before I didn't even MENTION the FLAC files, now they're linked, stop complaining :P < 1281754432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My phone, sadly, does not yet play Ogg. < 1281754438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though oddly, it has *libogg* on it. < 1281754447 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, I thought you had an Android phone? < 1281754454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, webOS. < 1281754458 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh that's right. < 1281754462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have that shitty piece of shit. < 1281754469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to write a decent audio player for it. < 1281754470 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enjoy the MP3s then :P < 1281754502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "audio player" I mean "GUI" < 1281754538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cause there isn't much actual porting needed. Just ARM Linux with a retarded UI. < 1281754568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(who the hell makes a UI to primarily run Javascript?) < 1281754581 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google. Except, incredibly, NOT Google. < 1281754593 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it's totally something Google would do (*cough* ChromeOS *cough*) < 1281754604 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your little link-menus are waay too big. < 1281754605 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, well, that's webOS. < 1281754608 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like chunkiness personified. < 1281754621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though thankfully you can do UIs without Javascript. < 1281754632 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, they are ... < 1281754636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case it's SDL with some added functions. < 1281754650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, it's not terribly obvious which one is hovering -- might I suggest a background darken, rather than a border change? < 1281754710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, just fixed that (locally) ... not sure where in this convoluted mess of CSS the size issue is right now :P < 1281754782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ mpc volume < 1281754783 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volume:4294967295% < 1281754893 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Made menus smaller and flashier. < 1281754903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Loudness war FTW? < 1281754915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281754915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No... that's just MPD being crazy as fuck. < 1281754917 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281754946 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: List "Source" under "Sheet music", methinks. < 1281754956 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281755018 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Where is "source" not under "sheet music"? < 1281755026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1281755044 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's screwy but it's just a modicum more complicated than I'm willing to fix (my generator was not set up for that :P) < 1281755051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix it E_LATER. < 1281755074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Development < 1281755074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To get the code: < 1281755074 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hg clone http://www.red-bean.com/decklin/njiiri.git < 1281755077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spot the mistake. < 1281755094 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1281755110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the proper plugin, that still works :P < 1281755686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if time travel in the Stargate Verse, except for "1969", uses the Sam Hughes Ed stories model of time travel? < 1281755694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What kind of a plugin is that? < 1281755702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You mean the obvious model? < 1281755758 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The show implies that when something goes back in time, it changes things and that the original ceases to exist, or something, but what if it doesn't? < 1281755788 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then NO IMPLICATIONS WHATSOEVER. < 1281755922 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone here use MPD? < 1281755983 0 :cpressey!~catseye@99.97.98.190 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281755999 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1281756018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it means the people in the sterilized people of 2010 are still sterilized < 1281756021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ SPOILERS < 1281756040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that ... well, no real implications for the SGA time travel ep, I guess < 1281756048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that an SGU spoiler? < 1281756055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose not. < 1281756059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess not < 1281756061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess not. < 1281756069 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy frim fram < 1281756079 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just an SG-1 spoiler < 1281756090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I don't care about SG-1's ongoing plotlines. Because it has none. < 1281756118 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How dare you insult that show I don't care about < 1281756119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None in the sense of "SG-1 has been cancelled", or as in some slur against SG-1? < 1281756131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No slur. It's just very episode-oriented. < 1281756141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can never really spoil much more than an episode. < 1281756187 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying "Carson dies" isn't an SGA spoiler < 1281756190 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1281756200 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I ever mentioned you should stick your head in a vat of lye? < 1281756202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moving on, < 1281756205 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Major events do happen occasionally in SG-1 < 1281756216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I don't care about SGA, but if I did, I would hate your guts right now.) < 1281756224 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CARSON DIES?!?? OMG < 1281756227 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's Carson? < 1281756258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I kind of assumed that if you cared about SGA, you'd have seen all the episodes < 1281756396 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is this a permanent new identity for you, AnMaster? < 1281756404 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"American-Canadian military science fiction television franchise Stargate" < 1281756407 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a linkbomb. < 1281756546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Googles! They do something! < 1281756776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* why is this shitty < 1281756820 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: What is "this"? < 1281756832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Music Player Daemon, it's so almost good. < 1281756832 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can tell you why it is shitty (hint: I cannot) < 1281756842 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1281756853 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I want is ... the ability to use the entire library as a playlist. < 1281756862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems reasonable < 1281756871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot figure out how to achieve this. < 1281757285 0 :mutoga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: :) ♪ © ¿ !~§¤[1;21] 0.6+8*9X²2¨@#|/[_.-{3,4°5^5"'€&6,55957(FR)<7%0=1=0%6>?&£`"5^5°4,3}-._]\|#@¨2²X9*8+7.0 [12;2]¤§~¡ ? 12±¾ ® ♪ (: < 1281757304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARIBAS is an interactive interpreter suitable for big integer < 1281757304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic and multiprecision floating point arithmetic. < 1281757304 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a syntax similar to Pascal or Modula-2, but contains also < 1281757306 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :features from other programming languages like C, Lisp, Oberon. < 1281757319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281757345 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was meant to be one line < 1281757357 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it is probably not an amusingly bad as R. < 1281757360 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*as < 1281757425 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bad = bad for general programming) < 1281757515 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And R is better known (there was a New York Times article about it!) So I will probably implement Thue in R. < 1281757532 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Thue turing-complete? < 1281757538 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281757543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It better friggin be < 1281757544 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So therefore R is. < 1281757557 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course R is. < 1281757559 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cpressey seeks to do the impossible] < 1281757570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue[deterministic] is TC, too. < 1281758042 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course cpressey seeks to do the impossible, but not THAT impossible < 1281758155 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now my level of "impossible" is "get Rosegarden to actually play the notes I entered" < 1281758177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: gregor says you're doin it ron < 1281758180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rong < 1281758197 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, not surprising. I guess I should checky the loggy < 1281758219 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geh. How do I scroll back in irssi? No, I should goodle this < 1281758228 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift+pgup < 1281758240 0 :kwertii!~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281758254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe you already saw it. < 1281758259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:53:12 Y'know, I would answer cpressey's questions, but he's not online :P < 1281758259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:53:19 If he's asking that question, then he's doing it all wrong :P < 1281758259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:53:21 Gregor-W, what questions? < 1281758259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:53:36 w.r.t. making Rosegarden talk to fluidsynth. < 1281758321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useful! *and* shift+PgUp does nuzzingk < 1281758460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just PgUp for me < 1281758506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! that works < 1281758512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift+PgUp instead scrolls up in the PuTTY scrollback < 1281758521 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting it to be some horrible key combo < 1281758565 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I re-give up on Rosegarden until I see Gregor again, because no advice I've seen makes sense < 1281758588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added a metamacro command in Enhanced CWEB to retrieve the current section number. < 1281758680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you can rebind keys to your heart's content anyhow (i vaguely recall i rebound Home and End to go top and bottom of scrollback instead of beginning/end of line) < 1281758702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*go to < 1281758808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hic* < 1281758818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Hic? < 1281758841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hic est hiccupus < 1281758852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is hiccupping (and NOT drunk. I don't know if *hic* applies to non-drunk hiccups, or if *hic* in the context of drunkenness isn't actually a hiccup in any sense) < 1281758869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT drunk with a capital N-O-T < 1281758887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nearly Overdosed Totally < 1281758920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice and Overly Tipsy < 1281758956 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is NOT, at any rate < 1281758978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp://ftp.mathematik.uni-muenchen.de/pub/forster/aribas/examples/queens.ari <-- OK, so ARIBAS is basically Pascal with bigints. Big whee < 1281759025 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bigfloats and a bunch of built in MathSnazziness < 1281759099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var X : Humongous Integer; < 1281759440 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It occured to me a while ago that there are so many buildings on this planet, even if I was somehow able to sleep in a different building every night, there is no way I would be able to sleep in all of them. < 1281759464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep. < 1281759676 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep in a stupid way. My speciality. < 1281759680 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281759697 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel sick; blargh. < 1281759931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Unless you invent immortality. < 1281759949 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stop the building and destruction of all buildings. < 1281759958 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And god I am so fucking tired and sick feeling and bed soon < 1281759998 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Arthur Dent? Arthur Phillip Dent? You are a complete git..." < 1281760013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1281760017 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Go to bed < 1281760019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a contextless quotation. < 1281760024 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1281760026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It relates < 1281760030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinitely Prolonged. < 1281760035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: in a sec, in a sec < 1281760175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise `seq` bed < 1281760203 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I'll start posting links with a nonzero risk of making you feel more ill < 1281760286 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THAT MAKES NO SENSE < 1281760311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to burp or i will vomit < 1281760313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think i'm treating you too strictly? < 1281760314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1281760323 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... < 1281760671 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=about < 1281760695 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] and also to help integrate other UNIX (text) processors." < 1281760717 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The person behind this lives in a different world than I. < 1281760724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/create a functional "absolute" through the math sqr(x) operation < 1281760724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func_abs = .[ cascade .[ // this is the functional sequence operator < 1281760724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sqr // our square argument < 1281760724 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : radix_of( 2 ).extract // get the extract method of an instance of square root. < 1281760725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ] < 1281760727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :] < 1281760729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1281760731 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that even fucking < 1281760733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucking < 1281760735 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're < 1281760737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language sucks < 1281760760 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION claps in delight < 1281761009 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fffffffffur < 1281761010 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jsf < 1281761051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=facts has a comparison table where, under "Functional programming", only Falcon has a "yes"; Python, Perl, Lua, Javascript are all "no". Justification further down the page, tho I cannot make heads or tails of it. < 1281761073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, not Javascript -- Ruby. < 1281761097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this language is shit < 1281761287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But's it's called FALCON!!! < 1281761302 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How kick-ass is THAT!!! < 1281761313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language should be called Bear Wrestling < 1281761316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be kick-ass < 1281761329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[cpressey adds Bear Wrestling to his list of esolang names to use] < 1281761355 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, it is now in my "translation table." < 1281761365 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby? MatzLisp. Falcon? Bear Wrestling. < 1281761373 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281761384 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a "Bear" theme running through the really awful ones. < 1281761535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the unbearable ones? < 1281761618 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarr! < 1281761634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I call Starfish the MapReduce of Ruby because they both do the same task: screw." -- http://tech.rufy.com/2006/08/starfish-is-mapreduce-for-ruby.html < 1281761670 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I am trying to make alise even sicker so she will go to bed. < 1281761689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call Starfish the Rabbit because they both do the same thing: screw. < 1281761718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tabular programming? < 1281761766 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a small library size supposed to be a _good_ thing? < 1281761839 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not, for that, at least -- "This is our weak point; this is young project [...]" < 1281761925 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Faaargilous and the going-to-beds < 1281761927 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! And of course Falcon is dual licensed, GPL/FPLL! And guess what FPLL stands for! < 1281761945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falcon public laconic license < 1281761952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falcon public locomotive license < 1281761955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falcon public lactating license < 1281761960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :falcon public loser's license < 1281761988 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so bad about this language? Although I guess I should look at a sample < 1281762016 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, sgeo finds a new favourite language < 1281762026 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO < 1281762029 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have I done? < 1281762055 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have yet to see a code sample < 1281762062 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let us keep it that way let me bed myself < 1281762096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely arloo toolus < 1281762099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds wrong < 1281762138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, the only way i could bed myself in that sense involves time travel or cloning < 1281762146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i hereby support any fantasies which involve time travel or cloning < 1281762146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: YOU HAVE DOOMED US ALL < 1281762166 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly just Sgeo < 1281762220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: also wormholes < 1281762229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wormholes. < 1281762248 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i saw some discussion about that in reference to portal somewhere) < 1281762268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would kind of need to be in a cramped area, wouldn't it? < 1281762302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i think there was a suggestion that portal portals were completely unmovable precisely to prevent this :D < 1281762302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure self-penetration with portals would be impossible, the portals would have to move < 1281762309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway uh im turning off irc now okay < 1281762309 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1281762312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281762336 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1281762368 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've seen some basic code in the tutorial < 1281762375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing here that's really thrilling yet < 1281762396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop/end is a bit ugly < 1281762465 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum seems uninspired < 1281762487 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But so far, these are not "This language is horrible" issues, just "This language doesn't turn me on and make me wet" issues < 1281762581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The array stuff seems Pythonesque < 1281762615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To access the first or last element of an array, for example, in loops, arrayHead and arrayTail functions can be used. They retrieve and then remove the first or last element of the array." < 1281762624 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems... not useless, but poorly named < 1281762634 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that they look useless, but they really change the array < 1281762685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's a craptastic syntax called comma-less arrays < 1281762694 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281762699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a2 = .[ 1 2 3 4 'a' 'b' var1 + var2 var3 * var4 .[x y z]] < 1281762705 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array = .[ somesym ,[1:2] ] < 1281762716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comma there's used to prevent it looking like somesym[1:2] < 1281762736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems.. prone to programmer error, more so than baseline regular programming < 1281762800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Adding an item to a string causes the item to be converted to string and then concatenated." < 1281762805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not that strongly typed? < 1281762873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Contrary to strings, arrays and dictionaries, Lists are full-featured Falcon objects. " < 1281762901 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I took sleepiy pills < 1281762906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may fall asleep at any time < 1281762968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, don't operate any heavy machinery < 1281762983 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION operates on oerjan < 1281763688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone published books licensed under the GNU GPL? How well does it work? < 1281764160 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be necessary to include a copy of the license in the appendix? < 1281764962 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Why did you eat something that make you forget what you eat? < 1281766881 0 :diofeher!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281767245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1281768902 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1281769002 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281769144 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I played Washizu mahjong at anime convention. Did you play mahjong and/or anime convention, today? < 1281769237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was not an anime convention nearby, so no, I did not. < 1281769247 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I know not how to play mahjon. < 1281769249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mahjong, even. < 1281769264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to learn? < 1281769286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not particularly, ATM. < 1281769289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis midnight. < 1281769289 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1281769339 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know if anyone has ever published books which are licensed under the GNU GPL? < 1281769352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1281769453 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, it is something I plan to do, "The ZZT Book". And then I want to send a free copy to Tim Sweeney and ask him to sell it, too. And include the CD or DVD with the source-codes and executables for many operating systems, in the back of the book. < 1281769485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a good idea or is this bad idea, in your opinion? < 1281769508 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The software is called "CZZT", however. < 1281769942 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD and DVD will increase the manufacturing costs. Better would be to have the content on some website, and use the URLs in the book. < 1281770118 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style. < 1281770433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is just in case you have no internet connection, you can order the copy with the CD or DVD included. But it could also have URLs, like "The source-codes is available at any of the following URLs: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/czzt/czzt-src.zip http://example.org/czzt/czzt-src.tar.gz ftp://example.org/czzt/czzt-src.0.1.tar.gz gopher://zzo38computer.cjb.net/5czzt/czzt-src.zip" < 1281770744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, the listing would include both the source for the current version and the URL that updates for the newest version automatic. It also requires the full text of the GNU GPL, written in the book, I think. < 1281771344 0 :kwertii_!~kwertii@ResNet-32-110.resnet.ucsb.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1281771540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Most Ridiculous Patents: Snake Walker. Baby Bottom Art. Motorized Ice Cream Cone. Gerbil Shirt. Anti-Gravity Device. < 1281771592 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281771593 0 :kwertii_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kwertii < 1281771837 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-185.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281772006 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see sound waves need a medium to travel in. If the air in this room was a vacuum, we would all be dead, but apart from that, we wouldn't be able to talk to each other. < 1281772439 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1281772799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1281772800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1281773068 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281773601 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281773623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think simple type checking is a case of cross serial dependencies < 1281773650 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even more complex type checking < 1281774172 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281774342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281777555 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-164-11.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281778013 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1281778396 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281779208 0 :cheater109!~cheater@p5B21662F.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281779311 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1281779449 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281782034 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: bye < 1281784252 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281784254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281788611 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281788649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: is this a permanent new identity for you, AnMaster? <-- perhaps < 1281788883 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281790360 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281792693 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1281792754 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281792790 0 :Behold!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1281793952 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281794241 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm anyone know how to efficiently copy a single huge file over ethernet? scp doesn't nearly max out the capacity, and some simple tests shows that it isn't disk IO that is the bottleneck... < 1281794265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge = 40 GB or so < 1281794481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about netcat? If you don't mind the encryption. < 1281794495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or lack of it, anyway. < 1281794537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, network is trusted yeah < 1281794567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, will it create a sparse file, I strongly suspect that it may contain quite a few zero blocks... it's a disk image < 1281794579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281794579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it will, by default. < 1281794626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281794627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind temporary space-wastage, you can just netcat it, and then "cp --sparse=always image.tmp image" it to make the holes. < 1281794643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I do mind that, since the target system doesn't have space for two copies :P < 1281794657 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah rsync might be useful here, it seems to have sparse-stuff < 1281794665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can do rsync without ssh here... < 1281794668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is trusted < 1281794805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, rsync should do sparsity right. < 1281794854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to set up rsync server on one side < 1281794866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit shame that dd doesn't have a "conv=sparse" option; it could do a bit of lookahead, and on large sequences of zeros, start counting them and then seek forward in the output file. < 1281794955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is also annoying that you have to copy a file to make it sparse. As in, you can't make it sparse in place < 1281795083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A limitation of the userland-kernel API, I'd guess. You can only make sparse files by skipping over bytes with lseek and never writing there; there's no "hey, here's a block of zeroes, disappear them" thing. (And I guess it wouldn't be too practical to have the system try to find all zero-writes and sparsify them.) < 1281795098 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1281795141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could've added some sort of posix_fsparsify thing, since there's fallocate and fadvise and maybe other "advanced" things, too. < 1281795226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's even a posix_madvise function that can tell the system if you're going to access *memory* in a sequential or random fashion, or tell it you're going to need some region in the near future. (Not that it necessarily does anything on any system, but it exists.) < 1281795339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it exists < 1281795362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably useful for mmaped files < 1281795543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also seems that since 2.6.17 there's actually been a splice(2) syscall, to move data from one fd to another with as little copying as possible. (Since sendfile is limited to "from mmap-capable file to a socket" scenarios.) < 1281795611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, but splice needs one of them to be a pipe. Heh. < 1281795679 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit funny how they try to keep syscall numbering backwards-compatible, resulting in: < 1281795683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~$ grep uname /usr/include/asm/unistd_32.h < 1281795683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_oldolduname 59 < 1281795683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_olduname 109 < 1281795683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define __NR_uname 122 < 1281795712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably after the next incompatible uname change, 59 will be oldoldolduname. < 1281795717 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so they needed to keep those the same, but read() and write() could be changed? < 1281795759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have they made some incompetible changes to read/write, then? < 1281795827 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh, I thought you meant the x86-64 syscall numbers. < 1281795880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that. Well, I don't think there's any need to keep those in sync. But apparently they want programs/libs that still use the oldolduname to work properly. < 1281795936 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it depends on how you break stuff though < 1281795945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *was* a bit strange that "exit" had the prominent number 1 in 32-bit-land. < 1281795958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why is that? < 1281795963 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit is quite an important call < 1281795981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, you only call it once, after all. :p < 1281795989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Per process, that is.) < 1281796170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is nice that you can load it into eax in just three bytes (xor+inc) instead of five (mov with 32-bit immediate). < 1281796202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sometimes wondered why there isn't a shorter "load a small number into a full 32-bit register" operation. < 1281796238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the sign-extending and zero-extending movsx/movzx, but those only load from memory. < 1281796318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, so it's four bytes with xor+mov into al, but still.) < 1281798088 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281799213 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281799325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/uqRyI.jpg < 1281799381 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281799483 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should just give directions to the nearest airport < 1281799496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how it just goes in a straight line < 1281799531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brilliant. < 1281799560 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from japan btw in case it wasn't clear < 1281799573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to america < 1281799585 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone must try that course for real. < 1281799597 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kayaking part is difficult. < 1281799602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esp. keeping your car < 1281799699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you have no AMBITION. < 1281800806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281800824 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281803048 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281805077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nordic / Scandinavian Redditors -- Do You Think Your Countries Are As Awesome As They Are Often Portrayed On Reddit?" Hellooooo /r/circlejerk < 1281805127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if that _was_ from /r/circlejerk it would be appropriate there, surely < 1281805201 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't - but it should have been there < 1281805218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should, uh, a vast majority of the front page; why isn't there a classy timewaster any more? < 1281805242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No we're not that awesome, although the rest of the world sucks even more" < 1281805257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not an actual quote) < 1281805299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to live in a nordic country but that's because (a) I don't like hot weather and (b) they have fast internet, as much as (c) better sociopolitical climate than the UK < 1281805341 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, Nordic countries have hot summers IIRC. < 1281805374 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Britain just has fairly uniform cool, wet weather. < 1281805381 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hot hot summers. < 1281805386 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends where you are. < 1281805402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc 26 degrees is considered a heatwave in Norway; wasn't it, oerjan? < 1281805426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know about the technical definition :D < 1281805430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the summers here can be experienced with a woolen jumper on. < 1281805433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it felt that way < 1281805451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not this summer < 1281805466 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, I am probably insane. < 1281805482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you are, after all, in south England. < 1281805496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No -- I'm not. < 1281805499 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What gave you that impression? < 1281805500 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, you're not. < 1281805509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham is north-east. < 1281805511 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A terrible grasp of English geography. < 1281805517 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just googled it again. < 1281805520 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281805540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a terrible grasp of Scottish, Irish and Welsh geography as well. < 1281805549 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a terrible grasp of [...] geography. < 1281805562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Tanzania? < 1281805581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near New Zealand. < 1281805588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...wait. < 1281805592 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you said Tazmania. < 1281805600 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, you're right about [...]. < 1281805614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new warehouse 13 and eureka! :D :D :D < 1281805618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand < 1281805622 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot that New Zealand =/= Australia. < 1281805630 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that it's called Tasmania. < 1281805635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst. Thinko. Ever. < 1281805636 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have, in the past, mistaken Leicester for Leinster. < 1281805656 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, its SORT of near new zealand < 1281805662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yeah. SORT of. < 1281805680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same way that Canada is near the US, and Scotland is near England. < 1281805828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not if it's tanzania you're talking about < 1281805845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's near madagascar, of course) < 1281805918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasmania < 1281805974 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The A1 is INHABITED BY GNOMES < 1281805983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is A1 < 1281805999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, the road? < 1281806045 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281806049 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the paper size. < 1281806064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it should be big enough for a gnome < 1281806066 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what kind of gnomes? < 1281806109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invariably variable gnomes. < 1281806138 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANSWER ME THIS: Why do music daemons suck? < 1281806138 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underpants gnomes < 1281806176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, linking ffmpeg to libao is hideously difficult: http://nikolai.luthman.name/misc/queue.c < 1281806188 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost enough to make me use libxine. ... almost. < 1281806190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: because they're actually succubi < 1281806197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a libmplayer? < 1281806200 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, dunno. All the great composers went to hell. < 1281806205 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you win < 1281806206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xine is considered bad? < 1281806211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: awful < 1281806221 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1281806274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell is near tasmania. at least, they have devils both places. < 1281806389 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no. < 1281806617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's obviously professional software development. < 1281806649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees no contradiction there < 1281806672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't they have professional software development near tasmania < 1281806797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not just near Tasmania. < 1281806820 0 :Gregor!~Gregor@c-71-237-176-82.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281806829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You're right, wildly insufficient FLACitude. < 1281806843 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't give me none of that flakitude. < 1281806844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they're all outsourced _now_, of course < 1281806847 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My alternate recording of Op. 11 has FLAC. I should rerecord Op. 10 to add FLAC too. < 1281806867 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO: OMG Hulu just made my day again < 1281806883 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching Saturday morning cartoons (Rocky and Bullwinkle) on Saturday morning! < 1281806905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but before that outsourcing craze started, say a hundred years ago, i doubt you'd find it much outside hell < 1281806917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(near tasmania, as already established) < 1281806930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about the native Tasmanians? < 1281806938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were they the developers? < 1281806943 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: xfce4-panel sucks. < 1281806998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I disagree. < 1281807017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is well known, the native tasmanians were exterminated by the english invaders, so it's a bit hard to ask them now. well, i suppose you could find some remaining in hell, if you'd like to go there < 1281807019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay; xfce4-panel sucks IF YOU'RE NOT USING ALL THE REST OF XFCE. < 1281807051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: OK, that I'll agree with :P < 1281807054 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XFCE is awesome :P < 1281807060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want a nice little menu to start programs with? OOPS LOL YOU CAN ONLY CREATE A LAUNCHER WITH "SUB-LAUNCHER" SHIT, AND THAT MEANS YOUR LAUNCHER'S ICON AND NAME ARE INCLUDED IN THE MENU ITSELF FOR NO REAL REASON, MEANING YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH SOME MENU ICON AND "PROGRAMS" AS YOUR LAST MENU ITEM EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOTHING < 1281807072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what software did they develop? < 1281807093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to make the background something that doesn't glare for attention since it uses your regular GTK+ background colours? LOL HAVE FUN MODIFYING YOUR THEME FILE AND FINDING IT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO CONFIGURE ALL THE COLOURS < 1281807119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: xfce may be awesome but pekwm is more awesomerest. < 1281807142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: how the hell should i know? i said they're all exterminated. < 1281807161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1281807169 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so what software is written in hell these days? < 1281807177 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of it < 1281807196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of php and java, obviously < 1281807210 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh, that explains it. < 1281807235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So Google is obviously trying to muscle in on hell's territory, so Oracle are suing them. < 1281807252 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boycott Satanist software! < 1281807271 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY ISN'T THERE A LIBMPLAYER. < 1281807313 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, poor design? < 1281807377 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: There is, it's called FFMPEG :P < 1281807436 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, libavcodec can't actually output to an audio device; to do that, you need something like libao. < 1281807460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would you like to see the code sticking libavcodec and libao together? < 1281807460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://nikolai.luthman.name/misc/queue.c < 1281807467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1281807471 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW do you see why I want a libmplayer? < 1281807471 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not like to see that. < 1281807479 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Protip: It's fucking ugly. < 1281807551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I'd just use mpd, except it can't do something as fucking simple as "make a playlist out of the entire library and keep it updated". < 1281807572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just use xmms2 except that all xmms2 clients are _shit_ < 1281807649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libmplayer would be absolutely wonderful. < 1281807660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281807663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write an SDL GUI for it and VOILA. < 1281807675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY PHONE HAS HAD ITS SUCK REDUCED BY ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE < 1281807676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd write a GTK+ GUI for it because SDL sucks for interfaces :P < 1281807681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, for your phone. < 1281807687 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest selling it and buying some other phone. < 1281807691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, anything but a Palm phone. < 1281807694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I spent nothing on it. < 1281807698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... eh bash just abort()ed < 1281807703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1281807717 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no it was just strange formatting of glibc double free < 1281807723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missing the stack trace < 1281807726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a contract phone, but I don't pay the phone bill, so.) < 1281807769 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: MPlayer_Context *ctx = mplayer_create_context(); mplayer_set_ao(ctx, MPLAYER_AO_OSS); mplayer_play_async(ctx, "foo.ogg"); < 1281807784 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Something. < 1281807789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Mmmm. < 1281807823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Also: the UI is actually quite nice on here. < 1281807831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank God they stopped using Palm OS. < 1281807863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, it's really nice until you notice it's hideously slow, then you try any other phone and your jaw drops. < 1281807885 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwz soldiered with the Pre, the Pixi's big brother, for months before finally giving up and /buying an iPhone/ < 1281807897 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jwz? < 1281807902 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... So I'm tempted to port Android to it... < 1281807937 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Jamie Zawinski, Netscape programmer, XEmacs (Lucid Emacs) programmer, now nightclub owner, genius. < 1281807947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably already know who he is. < 1281807960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought the screenname was familiar. < 1281807992 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was he the one who said that solving a problem with regexes yielded two problems? < 1281808013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Homebrew on the Palm makes it much more usable. First things first, replace the damned kernel. < 1281808053 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281808058 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281808058 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        | < 1281808059 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :        >\ < 1281808063 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: He's the one that quoted it from someone else and then everyone decided he said it. < 1281808070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ah. < 1281808091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, jwz.org has been "redesigned" (it's now in a sans-serif font and the page width is smaller). < 1281808100 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the hexdump on the front page gives you a headache because it scrolls. < 1281808109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: he also popularised the "Worse is Better" essay. < 1281808129 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → food < 1281808167 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281808202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's bizarro is that the Palm Pre ships underclocked by default... < 1281808208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For BATTERY! < 1281808235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I mean: max CPU speed it'll run at is underclocked. < 1281808250 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the original iPhone did that for BATTRAY. < 1281808261 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will only go "up" to 600 MHz, on a 1 GHz CPU... < 1281808316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The state of smartphones is rather dismal; the only acceptable ones are basically the high-end Android phones, and the iPhone -- ignoring the political bullshit, 4 still has a bunch of antenna issues and crap < 1281808322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, of course, the political bullshit /matters/. < 1281808357 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1281808361 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just stuck with my original iPhone and it's been "fine". < 1281808454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Galaxy S seems quite appealing; Gregor has one, I think. < 1281808467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Moment. < 1281808476 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I have a Moment, please? < 1281808480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HRYUK HYUK HURTH < 1281808482 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need my hardware keyboard. < 1281808491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who makes the Moment? < 1281808493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's appealing is an Eee in smartphone form. < 1281808494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281808495 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You do!) < 1281808498 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IN MY HEEAAAART) < 1281808501 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But the Eee is shit. < 1281808558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, what's the political bullshit? < 1281808567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Apple hates developers. < 1281808569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: app store. closed source. Apple are fuckwits. etc. < 1281808578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the app store TOS is basically "1984 -- the programmer's edition!". < 1281808607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to like making Ballmer seem reasonable when he chants "Developers developers developers". < 1281808628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Samsung Intercept, what an awesome phone name < 1281808635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCEPT < 1281808647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Droid X", "Droid 2", I detect a theme here. < 1281808680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sooo, has any non-iPhone phone got a 960x640 IPS display yet? < 1281808684 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? Didn't think so ... < 1281808704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, guys, just invest shit in your phones and you can make money :P < 1281808789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They hate money. < 1281808801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And love making bizarre decisions. < 1281808814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Javascript. UI. Embedded device. WHY?) < 1281808832 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's WEB 7.4 < 1281808848 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYONE who knows Javascript and our insane custom system can write a terrible app! Anyone! < 1281808913 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION desperately wants a manual typewriter < 1281808930 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke an electronic typewriter in under one day. < 1281809001 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Banshee is such a piece of shit. < 1281809008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"iTunes: The GNOME edition!" < 1281809055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So close just to using DeaDBeeF here. < 1281809117 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 /dev/dsp < 1281809119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so cool! < 1281809144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dsp is sound output? < 1281809163 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; for OSS-based systems, including OSSv4. < 1281809172 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281809172 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also sound input. < 1281809175 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281809189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In older OSS versions -- before 4 -- only one program could write to /dev/dsp at a time, thus monopolising sound. < 1281809199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in 4, anyone can write to it and it automatically gets sent to the mixer. < 1281809211 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: This was only true for devices without hardware mixing. < 1281809215 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can do "cat /dev/urandom >/dev/dsp" and have other sound running too and it Just Works. < 1281809220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True. < 1281809223 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1281809226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which everything had when OSS was popularised... < 1281809236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but did anything configure it properly? < 1281809237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1281809239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1281809249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was hardware mixing then it "just worked". < 1281809255 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts catting everything into /dev/dsp < 1281809270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only got to be a problem when cards got cheaper. < 1281809285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can cat WAVs there, though there's a blip of noise at the start when it tries to audioify the WAV header. < 1281809297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catting MP3s and the like will just produce noise, obviously; it accepts raw PCM data. < 1281809297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281809317 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no, I mean /usr/bin/sbcl < 1281809324 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The static is quite interesting. < 1281809330 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's irritating is that ALSA's OSS emulation is still so retarded that writing to /dev/dsp monopolises sound. < 1281809416 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Try "sudo cat /dev/sd[abc...] >/dev/dsp". < 1281809426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, no. < 1281809429 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why not? < 1281809441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd last forever. < 1281809443 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The patterns can be very interesting; you can almost hear the disk structure. < 1281809445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So terminate it. < 1281809445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I'll try it. < 1281809446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c < 1281809460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The drive headers sound quite thoroughly interesting at parts, though there are bits of silence. < 1281809469 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smaller drives are probably better; e.g. USB sticks. < 1281809470 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, trying < 1281809478 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can also try specific partitions. < 1281809524 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, rather more interesting. < 1281809547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives a rhythmic pulse for /home, after some noise at the start. < 1281809569 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For /home? < 1281809572 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you cat a directory? < 1281809576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Separate partition. < 1281809579 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1281809591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I could switch to 64-bit easily. < 1281809652 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sudo cat /dev/mem >/dev/dsp < 1281809656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that does exactly what you think it does. < 1281809666 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fails after a bit though; "operation not permitted". < 1281809699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that really is interesting. < 1281809721 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: If you can spit out sine waves, you can generate tones to /dev/dsp. < 1281809723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: /dev/kmem! < 1281809730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Bad address". < 1281809733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaw. < 1281809751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There's Brainfuck programs that play audio. < 1281809755 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via /dev/dsp < 1281809756 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281809757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No such file or directory" < 1281809761 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For /dev/kmem < 1281809772 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Whaa? < 1281809790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1281810115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: pipe this to /dev/dsp: < 1281810119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import math < 1281810119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import sys < 1281810119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 0.0 < 1281810119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while True: < 1281810119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sys.stdout.write(chr(round(math.sin(i/10)*100) + 100)) < 1281810120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i += 0.1 < 1281810123 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat | python >/dev/dsp < 1281810125 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste that in < 1281810126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D < 1281810250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, sec < 1281810334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: also: < 1281810335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import math < 1281810335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import sys < 1281810335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i = 0 < 1281810335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while True: < 1281810335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sys.stdout.write(chr((i/3) % 256)) < 1281810337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i += 1 < 1281810447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How can I make mplayer -vo caca output to the tty, not a new window? < 1281810748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION says "fuck it" installs deadbeef < 1281810852 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"fuck it", < 1281811078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/camera/SexAndSmartPhones.png Hmm. < 1281811095 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cdn.okcimg.com/blog/camera/SexAndSmartPhonesByAge.png < 1281811402 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and of course deadbeef is /also/ inadequate because it can't just update a playlist of a directory. sigh < 1281811624 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281811640 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-164-11.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281811659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot believe how rubbish this software is. And I'm actually trying it, rather than just dismissing it! :p < 1281811879 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, Star Control II has a very Lovecraftian feel about it. < 1281812483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I stand corrected -- Ex Falso has MusicBrainz integration. < 1281812530 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Via a plugin. < 1281812630 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281812674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Woots. < 1281812720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thus allowing you to look up the tags of an album with MusicBrainz, tweak the result, then have it rename them properly and move them to your music folder, all in one UI. < 1281812748 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Nice. < 1281812759 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also notes that Quod Libet, of which Ex Falso is a subproject, appears to be the only reasonable graphical music program that exists on Linux. < 1281812822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Gentoo packages Quod Libet, but not Ex Falso seperately. < 1281812914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably includes Ex Falso. < 1281812920 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quod Libet is a damn good program anyway, so no harm :P < 1281812923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281812925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1281812945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You may need to install a quodlibet-plugins type package, and possibly the Python MusicBrainz bindings, for it to appear in Ex Falso's plugin list. < 1281812970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fetches quodlibet-plugins < 1281812980 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1228 < 1281813027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaand Dbus error. < 1281813032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ignore it. < 1281813035 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It works perfectly fine without DBus. < 1281813038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just checking if DBus is there. < 1281813047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Who would win in a fight: the Enterprise or the Millenium Falcon? And NO, the correct answer is not "the audience". The correct answer is that this scenario is ludicrous and impossible!" -- T-Rex < 1281813100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: No, I mean, it *crashes* because of an error with DBus. < 1281813105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERROR:dbus.proxies:Introspect error on :1.0:/org/freedesktop/Hal/Manager: dbus.exceptions.DBusException: org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied: Rejected send message, 1 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.42" (uid=1000 pid=18506 comm="/usr/bin/python2.6) interface="org.freedesktop.DBus.Introspectable" member="Introspect" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination=":1.0" (uid=0 pid=14778 comm="/usr/sbin/hald)) < 1281813114 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What ... < 1281813118 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suggest disabling DBus. < 1281813144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Seriously, that's some DBus/HAL bullshit, you'll never figure it out. Why do you have HAL? < 1281813155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was enabled back from when I had KDE. < 1281813162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now... No reason at all. < 1281813167 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest disabling HAL and then being happy. < 1281813230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall. < 1281813242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Victory! < 1281813249 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't disable HAL! He's just been given conflicting orders! < 1281813288 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: After enabling the plugin and configuring it, right click files and select MusicBrainz lookup, btw. < 1281813328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HOWSOEVER it appears that it doesn't use hashing or anything, just searching. < 1281813343 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am most thoroughly disappointed! Oh well, it's still good at everything that isn't MusicBrainz lookup. < 1281813420 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as love. < 1281813467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281813468 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Embed cover images into tags" THIS HAS ALWAYS MADE ME SOMEWHAT UNEASY < 1281813581 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Picard does have the issue of an utterly inscrutable interface, however. < 1281813647 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Good lord, Picard tags excessively. "performer:electric guitar". "musicbrainz_so_many_damn_things". "barcode". "asin". "albumartistsort". < 1281813695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Use folksonomy tags as genre" *groan* < 1281813826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, it tags a lot. < 1281813858 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any way to ... make it more conservative? < 1281813989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But it takes a PLUGIN just to get the disc number in a separate field! Ha! < 1281814065 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1281814079 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281814104 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281814795 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAAAAR < 1281815254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For some reason, quodlibet does not like the tag ~album~discnumber~discsubtitle. < 1281815259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot find a single reason for this to be true. < 1281815285 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? WHY?! < 1281815329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1281815684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been fetching covers. < 1281815686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1281815694 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ex Falso can do that ... :P < 1281815710 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I remember the good old days, when iTunes had a flaw that allowed you to download 600x600 covers for shit. < 1281815720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes, I've been doing that in Quod Libet. < 1281815723 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was lovely. There was a script to do it and all. < 1281815775 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281815776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Quod Libet seems to dislike the musicbrainz_albumid tag being different between two discs of albums. < 1281815786 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does. < 1281815787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have two discs of the same album, and they don't get merged in the Album List. < 1281815787 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make sure they have the same name (i.e. without "(disc x)" on the end). If they are still not merged, they have different labelid or musicbrainz_albumid tags. If they have different label ID tags, delete the incorrect one. If they have different MusicBrainz album ID tags, add a labelid tag that is the same for both albums. < 1281815791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--FAQ < 1281815797 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit reasonable, but also not. < 1281815836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite annoying. < 1281815842 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281815846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just delete those tags. They're dumb. < 1281815855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been. < 1281815898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, take a look at ~/.quodlibet/current. < 1281815918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also ~/.quodlibet/control, which I gather accepts commands of some sort. < 1281815941 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, echo next >~/.quodlibet/control works. < 1281815965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1281815975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I still can't get it to show this particular column header. :-) < 1281816015 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, yes I can! Hooray! < 1281816042 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how does one... < 1281816052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, musicbrainz have release groups < 1281816061 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@92.233.174.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281816064 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has, god dammit! < 1281816065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for grouping multiple discs from the same album < 1281816075 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you please just never mistake have/has again. As a general tip pick the opposite of what you always do. < 1281816077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281816119 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The best feature of Quod Libet: The release names come from the current Dinosaur Comic at the time of release. < 1281816138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, you never complain when I use the right one, so that doesn't work. < 1281816149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you never use the right one < 1281816155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know which one is the right, it is just that I forget to think about it. < 1281816178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, and that statement is not true. < 1281816252 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, KDE redesigned their website. If only they redesigned KDE too. < 1281816266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 doesn't count? < 1281816272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.5, wowzers; I wonder in which ways it's exactly identical to the previous version. < 1281816282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, looks like ALL THE WAYS! < 1281816338 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it will be less crashtastic? (Last time I used KDE was in 3.x on Kubuntu, so it's been a while) < 1281816352 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt is all C++ish :/ < 1281816366 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't crash. But it does suck. < 1281816512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, crashiness was always my biggest problem with KDE < 1281816519 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should try it again < 1281816519 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your hardware probably just sucks. < 1281816525 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1281816526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crap. < 1281816545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues to learn Falcon < 1281816552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1281816558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey is laughing in his Internetless. < 1281816573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one thing we single out for being *hopelessly terrible*, you start learning. < 1281816590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to see how it's terrible < 1281816607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suuure. < 1281816612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Beautiful. < 1281816649 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:08:07 But so far, these are not "This language is horrible" issues, just "This language doesn't turn me on and make me wet" issues < 1281816661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please never say "This language doesn't turn me on and make me wet" again. < 1281816662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever. < 1281816703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think it would be pretty hard for a language to do that to any member in this channel, since we're all male. < 1281816747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the language were awesome enough, it would make me female < 1281816752 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just so it could do that < 1281816779 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Sgeo has secret desires he is not quite ready to admit openly to the world, so he encodes them in statements about programming languages. < 1281816803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't actually want to be female < 1281816814 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your secret's safe with us. < 1281817089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ nethack < 1281817089 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: nethack: command not found < 1281817090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT < 1281817091 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1281817294 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1281817387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, just telnet to NAO. < 1281817465 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it's slow. < 1281817473 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1281817506 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well, it's bearable if you use ^ or shift when moving through corridors. < 1281817571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather just get the Home Experience. < 1281817582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Well, crashiness was always my biggest problem with KDE <-- I never had KDE 3.5.x crash < 1281817608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.0.x a few times iirc < 1281817608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Various applications would crash < 1281817615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that this was Kubuntu, so < 1281817672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281817676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could explain a lot < 1281817766 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1281817770 0 :Gregor-P!~AndChat@70-7-164-11.pools.spcsdns.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281817952 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I might just give up and install a shitty desktop environment. < 1281818039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does some Replay Gain on it all... Mmm. < 1281818043 0 :Gregor-P!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1281818065 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quod Libet actually uses album replaygain /except/ when shuffling, where it uses track replaygain. Which is awesome. < 1281818077 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RANDOM QUOD LIBET FACTS, brought to you by alise. < 1281818079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yeah, that is actually really awesome. < 1281818093 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if only it showed my custom column of insanity! < 1281818102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use album ReplayGain when you would want it, and track ReplayGain when you would want it. < 1281818105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1281818190 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly is replaygain? < 1281818242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the semi-solution to the loundness war < 1281818259 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically, a metal track from the 80s is much quieter than a mild pop song from the 2000s < 1281818264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is because of mixing trends etc. < 1281818273 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: replaygain calculates this, cleverly, restoring the dynamics across the ages < 1281818279 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the metal song will be louder than the pop song, no matter when they're from < 1281818297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :album replaygain is replaygain applied to a whole album as a unit, rather than a track; this is so that the dynamics are stable across songs, and segues are retained < 1281818311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why not make a standard for recording level? < 1281818319 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1281818319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1281818320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1281818322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And essentially it just does the volume-adjusting that you would do automatically. < 1281818347 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know you Swedes are totally down with socialism, but did you really just propose LAWS on MIXING MUSIC? < 1281818357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: The RIAA *used* to actually have such a standard. < 1281818366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It went by the wayside with the end of vinyl. < 1281818367 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes ... the RIAA ... always the best organisation to imitate ... < 1281818377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was when the RIAA wasn't entirely evil. < 1281818381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just *largely* evil. < 1281818382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1281818384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is this thing able to handle that some music isn't using the full dynamic range? A quiet nocturne shouldn't be as loud as some heavy metal for example < 1281818395 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that is the whole point of it < 1281818406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, neat, how does it figure that out? < 1281818410 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "mathematics" < 1281818414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replay Gain works by first performing a psychoacoustic analysis of an entire audio track to measure peak levels and perceived loudness. The difference between the measured perceived loudness and the desired target loudness is calculated; this is considered the ideal replay gain value (the target loudness of most Replay Gain utilities is 89 dB SPL — 6 dB higher than the Replay Gain specification and SMPTE recommendation[1]). Usually, the gain value and th < 1281818414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e peak value are then stored as metadata in the audio file, allowing Replay Gain-capable audio players to automatically attenuate or amplify the signal so that tracks will play at a similar loudness level. This avoids the common problem of having to manually adjust volume levels when playing audio files from albums that have been mastered at different levels. Should the audio at its original levels be desired (e.g., for burning back to hard copy), the meta < 1281818415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data can simply be ignored. < 1281818459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281818481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit of a hack to get around shitty mixing, but it *is* rather nice. < 1281818489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"desired target loudness" being? < 1281818493 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with good mixing, there'd still be variations due to personal taste. < 1281818500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: True, but much less so. < 1281818505 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 89 dB (the standard is 6 dB lower but nobody goes by that) < 1281818510 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: of course, this is then adjusted by your volume control. < 1281818565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea being that you end up not having to fiddle with your volume settings so that you can hear stuff or not go deaf. < 1281818568 0 :Warrigal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/o/ < 1281818568 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1281818569 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /\ < 1281818584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's Gregor? < 1281818604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, that doesn't seem to address the issue I mentioned above, if I shuffle music and I have some quiet piano music and some heavy metal, I probably *don't* want them to be played back at the same volume, while I probably want to compensate for the time they were recorded at < 1281818613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I missing something important here? < 1281818618 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that is exactly what it does < 1281818623 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the piano music will be quieter < 1281818628 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what decade the two were mixed at < 1281818645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stupid thing you are thinking of is called "volume normalisation" etc. and it is dumb; ReplayGain is not that < 1281818645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum. Is that from the "psychoacoustic analysis" stuff? < 1281818648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1281818659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the mathematics behind it; I only know that it works well. < 1281818689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we just moved the issue to a black box called "psychoacoustic analysis". Fun :) < 1281818699 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what? < 1281818703 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You use it and it solves the problem. < 1281818706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, right < 1281818707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a common thing, though. < 1281818713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you don't understand it, I don't for instance. < 1281818716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's part of the functioning of all lossy audio codecs. < 1281818717 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1281818719 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not like you can't just check. < 1281818727 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but replaygain is NOT lossy, mind < 1281818741 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/contents.html < 1281818744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can read the spec :P < 1281818745 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, okay. It just seems like some kind of black magic being able to tell how loud some music really is. < 1281818762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1281818767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio replaygain = track replaygain < 1281818770 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :audiophile replaygain = album replaygain < 1281818773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec uses older terms < 1281818782 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretend the desired volume level is 6 dB higher than it says to match tools < 1281818803 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://replaygain.hydrogenaudio.org/calculating_rg.html < 1281818804 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, can in a bit, I'm doing heavy lifting of data atm. < 1281818806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there's the how-it-works < 1281818815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening browser atm would be suicidal. < 1281818837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, lynx would probably work < 1281818844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will work with lynx < 1281818928 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the 83 dB SPL level is probably better than the 89 dB level used by tools, but it doesn't matter since you can just use your volume control < 1281818935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why tools differ from the spec, but they all do, universally < 1281818949 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BTW, most of what it does is recognise that things are too *loud* and make them more quiet. It won't actually adjust properly-mixed things too much. < 1281818960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, anyway, wrt "LAWS on MIXING MUSIC": no. No one has to follow Red Book standard either. There is no law forcing that, < 1281818964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/./ < 1281818971 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, the last , < 1281819017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i agree that recommendations would be good, but there's always an element of personal taste < 1281819039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, anyway, isn't the peak on non-classical recordings these days usually something like 0.01 dB from max? < 1281819053 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pop recordings now clip < 1281819055 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of them < 1281819060 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, ... wtf < 1281819064 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just stupid < 1281819069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly when lossy-compressed. < 1281819071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/48/GiveItAwayLoudnessComparison.png < 1281819078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReplayGain makes it actually clip less. < 1281819080 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on top: 1991 mastering of "Give it Away", by Red Hot Chili Peppers. < 1281819083 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: on bottom, 2003 mastering. < 1281819087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: note the incessant clipping. < 1281819102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, will check that later, lynx can't do it. < 1281819120 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it clipped on CD too? < 1281819128 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: imagine a constant clip; now imagine very slight, occasional dips down to maybe 0.1 dB less < 1281819133 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1281819139 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: those images are from the cd < 1281819154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why... that just means the sound is distorted... < 1281819163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the *actual mixing*. < 1281819176 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Because it sounds better in cars. < 1281819178 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And on the radio. < 1281819181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, it does? < 1281819184 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The listener never misses a single thing. It's LOUD! < 1281819186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no. < 1281819191 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it does to idiots. < 1281819199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Otherwise it's "too quiet"; i.e. has dynamic range. < 1281819207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The irony being that it's a moot point on radio stations, anyways. < 1281819220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the radio will actually do the damned limiting, anyways. < 1281819223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, if I want louder I just increase whatever volume control(s) my playback device has < 1281819234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally with better (non-clipping) settings. < 1281819240 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281819265 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why clip it? Why not just compress the dynamic range? < 1281819277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cars that would actually be a useful feature. < 1281819283 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they compress it to maximum volume. < 1281819284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because setting the compression to clipping is "louder". < 1281819310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1281819319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And louder is better! < 1281819329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid idea: a CAS written in Coq. < 1281819332 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise people will hear the other peoples' music and not ours!!! < 1281819334 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not stupid < 1281819335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well, relatively < 1281819357 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, for a given value of "stupid". < 1281819381 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Until I fond out how codata works, I refuse to acknowledge its uses. < 1281819386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, in cars a non-clipping dynamic range compression feature would actually be nice. Some music I like have huge dynamic range, in cars it needs to be compressed to always be audible without being clipped. Too loud isn't nice either < 1281819387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fond/find/ < 1281819394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be useful < 1281819408 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sec < 1281819410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clipping is just.... stupid < 1281819413 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i'll find you a tutorial < 1281819444 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/html/Coinductive.html < 1281819445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, when I checked some classical cds I have, they generally peak at -2.3 dB or such for modern ones, and even lower for older ones < 1281819450 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I know that it has something to do with eliminating from the set of all possible things rather than building from nothing, but that's all. And probably inaccurate. < 1281819462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Let me just say that I wish the sound engineers who work on classical music would work on other music too. < 1281819465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess people listening to classical would never accept clipped < 1281819470 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's basically wrong < 1281819472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, indeed < 1281819472 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://adam.chlipala.net/cpdt/html/Coinductive.html < 1281819478 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, will read. < 1281819484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it might be right in some sense < 1281819486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, classical gets mixed properly. < 1281819486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not useful < 1281819518 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Many of the sound engineers actually get *forced* to do the loudness thing. < 1281819523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I guess that is because those "idiots" alise referred to above never listen to classical < 1281819538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: By the band and/or the managers. < 1281819548 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining classical booming from a convertible car now < 1281819556 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rich shithead teenager inside < 1281819564 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bothering everyone on the street :D < 1281819623 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I listened to classical while in car. The problem is that it has too much dynamic range a lot of the time. So either you don't hear the quiet parts, or you hear them but your ears get destroyed from the loud parts < 1281819640 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, cars should have a built-in compression system. < 1281819641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, so a compression button in the car stereo would be nice, which does it without clipping < 1281819647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, exactly < 1281819674 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's the quality of the cover art on musicbrainz like? < 1281819676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: crap? < 1281819684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Random. < 1281819707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll stick to exfalso/quodlibet then < 1281819711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for cover art < 1281819719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1281819751 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, personally I never felt a need for cover art < 1281819756 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have to write a script that strips *sort, asin, barcode, musicbrainz_*, organization, performer*, and releasecountry from files < 1281819762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reduces date to a year < 1281819767 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Picard is crazy with its tags < 1281819774 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's just decoration. some cover art is very nice < 1281819781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice that it's automatic, but it *is* a bit over-the-top. < 1281819818 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, hm. < 1281819828 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, the cover of "The Dark Side of the Moon" has become iconic < 1281819854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As has "Abbey Road". < 1281819854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, having musicbrainz_ id tags is useful, makes it easy to fetch updates to the various tags < 1281819863 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically cover art is there for the same reason as any other packaging, choice of typefaces, whatever... the extended "release" beyond the music < 1281819866 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& included photographs, etc < 1281819878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to just releasing an undecorated cd in a case with no markings < 1281819895 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even band names, album titles, track titles are aesthetic decisions in this way < 1281819940 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish this laptop had better speakers. < 1281820008 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, if I don't find a decent panel program soon I'm just going to install a DE. < 1281820124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1281820199 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is autopickup good or bad? I forget. < 1281820350 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281820369 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi ais523. < 1281820372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is autopickup good or bad? < 1281820459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: in NetHack? < 1281820468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, but only if you change the settings from the insane defaults to sane values < 1281820483 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a quick line to do that with? < 1281820490 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting a friend set up to play Nethack and I've forgotten everything myself. < 1281820528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the RC file: OPTIONS=pickup_types:/="$? < 1281820539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1281820541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in-game, you can do it via pickup_types in the options, turn on the same set of item types < 1281820551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTIONS=boulder:0, decgraphics, color, autodig, !cmdassist, norest_on_space, pickup_types:/="$? < 1281820553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reasonable? < 1281820573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it !rest_on_space? < 1281820583 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not ... < 1281820589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, autodig can be a bit dubious at times, especially if you aren't used to it < 1281820594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OK < 1281820598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, wait, it is !rest_on_space. < 1281820599 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly wiki. < 1281820616 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTIONS=boulder:0, decgraphics, color, !cmdassist, !rest_on_space, pickup_types:/="$? < 1281820621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, it's normally off. < 1281820704 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there any way to choose what pet you start with? < 1281820713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pettype:dog < 1281820721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to be a legal one for the class < 1281820728 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valkryies can do either right? < 1281820730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281820772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm working on my own NetHack fork atm, incidentally < 1281820789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(besides, I don't see any reason why you wouldn't do cat/dog at random, given that they're basically identical) < 1281820840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personal preference! < 1281821231 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know of a good nethack tutorial i can point him to now it's set up? < 1281821239 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not nearly a good enough player to teach him < 1281821249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware that there's a reasonably good one, but I've forgotten what it's called < 1281821252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find it again < 1281821282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might be http://www.melankolia.net/nethack/nethack.guide.html < 1281821286 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1281821300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's written for 3.4.1, but all the changes since have been bugfixes so they don't affect a beginner's tutorial) < 1281821317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't list the controls thoug < 1281821318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1281821322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are pretty important < 1281821324 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, basic controls would help < 1281821365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to read the manual, but it's a) not very good, b) written by ESR < 1281821515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's a quick summary off the top of my head: 12346789 or yuhjklbn = move or fight; o to open doors; i to view inventory; aqrzwWPt use items; RT unequip items; < and > use stairs < 1281821528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, use < and > to navigate through menus, and . to select things at a "which square?" screen < 1281821628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random fact: although NetHack players overwhelmingly tend to be male, both of the major spoiler sites I know are run by women < 1281821641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://strategywiki.org/wiki/NetHack/Controls < 1281821645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be an excellent, if verbose, control reference. < 1281821676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never seen that before < 1281821680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it looks good < 1281821683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks it for truth < 1281821685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the method to quit without dying? i.e. save < 1281821780 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've forgotten everything :x < 1281821786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds and fixes an error < 1281821787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and S < 1281821806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S is save and quit; #quit is delete save file and quit) < 1281821810 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1281821859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Velkommen ehird, welcome to NetHack!" How redundant. < 1281821868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you change /your/ name? < 1281821923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-u on the command line < 1281821935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, nethack -u TAEB (which I used to use quite a lot) < 1281822018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is cmdassist ever actually useful? < 1281822025 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I've done him a disservice by telling him to turn it off. < 1281822047 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NAME= also works btw < 1281822070 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thusly i am alise now as far as nethack is concerned < 1281822093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmdassist only triggers in two situations: trying to type ^D rather rather than control-D, and pressing a meaningless key in a pick-any-square targeting screen < 1281822101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281822104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo decgraphics < 1281822107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second case is more harmful than useful, because there's a bug in it that cancels the entire action < 1281822109 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are good ... I think < 1281822111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Are they good?) < 1281822127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281822139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either DEC or IBM is better than the standard in every way, if it works on your terminal < 1281822147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that other people watching you might not understand the control codes < 1281822190 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IBM doesn't work with xterm, but DEC does < 1281822219 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A door that opens onto nothing. How delightfully pointless. < 1281822242 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you disable "You displaced [pet]."? < 1281822244 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really bothersome < 1281822254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not without turning off most of the messages in the game < 1281822264 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1281822268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet there's a Patch For That < 1281822277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it bother you that much? < 1281822278 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*There's A Patch For That < 1281822282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, you don't do a lot of displacing < 1281822282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i keep displacing Fluff :D < 1281822289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in cramped situations i do < 1281822299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i fucked if i can't get myself to use the diagonal movement keys? < 1281822308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not most of the time < 1281822316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do help quite a lot every now and then < 1281822329 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use numpad to get over that but i have none, ha < 1281822331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going down diagonal corridors twice as fact, etc < 1281822339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, yubn are in pretty obvious places < 1281822344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at where they are relative to the h < 1281822355 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if it ever becomes truly necessary i'll probably be thinking enough to be able to think about what direction to use, anyway < 1281822358 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for normal movement it shouldn't matter < 1281822364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I suppose you're leaving your right hand on jkl; rather than hjkl like I do?) < 1281822388 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I leave my right hand on hjkl. Why wouldn't you?! < 1281822403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use the home row positions, so I have no instinctive desire to rest on jkl;. < 1281822439 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there an autoopen :D < 1281822448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I wrote that into AceHack this morning :) < 1281822459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a crap name, you should change it :D < 1281822474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure this out, windows VM thinks the disk is unformatted, same disk attached to a linux vm thinks it contains a proper NTFS partition < 1281822483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just crazy < 1281822486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect Linux is correct here < 1281822495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm 99% sure it is < 1281822499 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but why isn't windows seeing it < 1281822502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(likewise, if they believed the other way round, I'd suspect Windows was correct) < 1281822516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need it visible from windows < 1281822518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: disagreed < 1281822529 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i bet it starts off ntfsy, but then has some corruption < 1281822539 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows, being the one "natively" supporting ntfs, catches this < 1281822544 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while linux does not, having more rudimentary support < 1281822545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly. < 1281822548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about fscking it from inside Linux? < 1281822558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there ntfsfsck? < 1281822562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it here at least < 1281822570 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more likely to be fsck.ntfs3g < 1281822571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1281822586 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281822600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a fsck for NFS < 1281822604 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't exist < 1281822607 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu suggests: < 1281822609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Command 'fsck.nfs' from package 'initscripts' (main) < 1281822614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NTFS < 1281822616 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the only alternative < 1281822622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I /do/ have a fsck for NFS) < 1281822632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: call it WorkHack < 1281822635 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: net-work < 1281822638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't chkdsk it either it seems < 1281822642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, lots of people know the name know < 1281822646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but it's crap! :D < 1281822650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1281822656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're WRONG < 1281822661 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you should FEEL BAD < 1281822673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and ntfs3g dislikes opening it, it claims it needs to be chkdsked under windows first < 1281822678 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1281822678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281822685 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's invalid < 1281822688 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1281822696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try head(1)ing the drive and seeing if the headers are right :D < 1281822707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I can get data out of it using the old ntfsls tools and such < 1281822715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have a sad feeling for a moment, then it passes. < 1281822717 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: duuuuude < 1281822720 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281822723 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.239.187 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281822727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, your pet died < 1281822728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it happens < 1281822729 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was walking down a regular corridor < 1281822730 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the first level < 1281822734 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cosmically unfair is that?! < 1281822736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely a trap < 1281822739 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that, I'm restarting, I want my Fluff < 1281822746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, your mistake was calling your pet Fluff < 1281822751 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1281822752 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1281822763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NetHack community: "Fluffy" is the standard name for a pet destined to die to a trap in the first few seconds) < 1281822768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there is no in-game evidence for this) < 1281822776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i called it fluff, not fluffy, so THERE < 1281822861 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are there any cutesy, stereotypically-cat-like names that /aren't/ cursed? < 1281822884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use "Tabby", and it seems to work quite well < 1281822891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, it's all down to RNG capriciousness < 1281822918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if i stick with fluffy, I'll have the horrible feeling that i've cursed it to a premature death for no fault of its own. < 1281823019 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://petrix.com/catnames/ < 1281823032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disappointing lack of cute names < 1281823048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll call it felix < 1281823101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i keep removing nethack's record of dead characters because it's embarrasing < 1281823104 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I a bad person? < 1281823115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*embarrassing < 1281823214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need chunkier keys to avoid mistypes < 1281823221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems a little pointless, really < 1281823229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people consider that a "high score table" < 1281823229 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, removing the file? < 1281823232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281823237 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's pretty much obsessiveness that causes me to do it :P < 1281823276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hey, my boulders are showing up as `, not 0. < 1281823290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1281823296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try writing the boulder option as BOULDER=0 < 1281823300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the options are weird like that < 1281823362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's the problem < 1281823365 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOULDER= is for the ascii code < 1281823368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boulder:0 gives the correct thing < 1281823372 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how stupidly inconsistent < 1281823412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't design the RC file format < 1281823414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Say, do you have any idea how ReplayGain metadata and MP3GAIN interact in ReplayGain-supporting players? < 1281823424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fix it in NotAcheHack :P < 1281823426 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: probably badly < 1281823430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1281823431 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i suggest not using mp3gain < 1281823442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I deleted most of the options < 1281823446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: MP3GAIN for the purposes of devices that don't support ReplayGain. < 1281823448 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f - a scroll labeled PRIRUTSENIE. < 1281823450 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yaay < 1281823452 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1281823454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reasonable defaults? < 1281823455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they're still in the RC file, for people who care < 1281823459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to have to create a fairly *complex* exporting script, aren't I? < 1281823459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just use mp3gain only < 1281823460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, because reasonable defaults < 1281823462 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: or dump those files < 1281823486 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ugh, what's the command to see the last message again? < 1281823497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control-P < 1281823508 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noises in the distance -- that means enemies, yes? < 1281823514 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, monsters. < 1281823541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shall definitely need to write a music exporter < 1281823558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: fighting, more specifically < 1281823567 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: On the first level?! < 1281823568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's nearly always a sign that your pet decided to brutally kill something < 1281823573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1281823578 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he is wondering off < 1281823580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(do they have genders?) < 1281823593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yes, but they're impossible to determine without looking at the memory or something < 1281823606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a huge debate in #nethack several months ago about how to determine the gender of your pet cat < 1281823607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, we gave up < 1281823611 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay grid bugs < 1281823615 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite type of grid bug < 1281823622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grid bugs cannot move diagonally < 1281823632 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they are my favourite type of grid bug < 1281823651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. Mmm, music. < 1281823660 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaa? this first level appears to have no downstairs < 1281823662 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quite. < 1281823676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no < 1281823678 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a huge first level < 1281823679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: they're probably near a secret door somewhere; try searching the walls near suspiciously empty parts of the map < 1281823791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: behold the gigantic level 1: http://imgur.com/P1Khd.png < 1281823812 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, i have no idea where felix is < 1281823818 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that he's on a rampage < 1281823824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not /that/ ridiculous < 1281823833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there e is < 1281823850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is up with doors locked from both sides < 1281823859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doors lock symmetrically in NetHack < 1281823864 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281823865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like many sorts of RL locks < 1281823868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1281823880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, what kind of a dungeon is this anyway? < 1281823884 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOMG NETHACK ISN'T REALISTIC < 1281823913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i should just s a lot to find the downstairs, right? < 1281823920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281823930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use 20s in order to do 20 searches in a row, it saves on typing < 1281823934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and search near empty areas of the map < 1281823943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that bit in the middle, with the suspicious dead-end corridor leading towards it < 1281823947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i just did that and became hungry < 1281823948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx man :P < 1281823954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1281823960 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which bit in the middle? < 1281823969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one with the "# #####" formation? < 1281823977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :northeast of there < 1281823989 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a food ration, should prolly eat that < 1281824019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there's a length-2 corridor in the middle of nowhere < 1281824042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while, you learn NetHack's map generation algo, it doesn't generate the sort of corridors around there without a secret door, normally < 1281824090 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, how are goblin corpses, nutritionally? < 1281824096 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably google this stuff. < 1281824109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: /msg PinoBot #!info name=goblin < 1281824125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100, it seems < 1281824130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I meant more poisonousnessly than nutritionally. < 1281824130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a comparison, food rations are 800 < 1281824141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh, I'll let felix eat it. < 1281824144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and goblins are fine < 1281824149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, ntfs-3g gave some usable error < 1281824153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PinoBot lists corpse danger too) < 1281824154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very very wtf error though < 1281824164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"partition is smaller than NTFS" < 1281824167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1281824171 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1281824182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: smaller than ntfs minimum < 1281824183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the filesystem is larger than the partition? < 1281824195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, well yeah I'm pretty sure 40 GB isn't < 1281824200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: found the stairs yet? < 1281824201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems so < 1281824208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i searched in the place you said and found some more dead-end corridor < 1281824215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1281824217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you search there too? < 1281824220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281824220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1281824223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical < 1281824235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check under the boulder in the northwest room < 1281824240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you give corpses to pets again? < 1281824248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throw them; or just let the pet walk onto the square < 1281824284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The corpse misses Felix." < 1281824301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a difference of 236749891 according to the sector ntfs-3g claims and that mbr claims < 1281824311 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: felix does not seem to be hungry. < 1281824313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: yep, it'll eat it from the square < 1281824320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, it's possible for a pet to not be hungry < 1281824322 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it picked up the newt then dropped it; ignored the goblin < 1281824326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it won't eat dangerous corpses < 1281824334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newt must have been too old to eat safely < 1281824337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 GB?! < 1281824337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281824339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only fresh coprses are edible < 1281824342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that partition has never been that big < 1281824344 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the goblin ok? < 1281824346 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1281824350 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just dump the corpses < 1281824351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it, unless you killed it recently < 1281824375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ····│ ### < 1281824376 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth searching here? < 1281824391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1281824400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have to be a very small room to fit there < 1281824403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's theoretically possible < 1281824414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │······│ ┌───────────┐ 0########################·········│ < 1281824414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │······│ │···········│ # ┌─────┐ │········│ < 1281824414 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │0······###########0│···········│ ### │·····│ #######·········│ < 1281824415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really? < 1281824445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's another one of those < 1281824457 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exp2 \/ < 1281824459 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*\o/ < 1281824482 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok; i'm at a loss < 1281824484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've searched everywhere < 1281824498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste another screenshot? < 1281824532 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://i.imgur.com/k06Kv.png < 1281824535 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no point pasting < 1281824541 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.imgur.com/k06Kv.png < 1281824554 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: behold the gigantic level 1: []imgur.com/P1Khd.png < 1281824555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did say that before < 1281824558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but forgot you wouldn't see it < 1281824561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I was considering imgur a pastebin < 1281824562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I did see it < 1281824564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus "anotehr" < 1281824568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"another" < 1281824571 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant the one i actually pasted < 1281824573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally! I booted my network HD box thing today (after a rather severe thunderstorm which cut the electricity for an hour or two, not that it's necessarily related); the leds ("sys" + "disk1" + "disk2") on the box light up properly, but the network link led (in both ends of the cable) stays dark. < 1281824574 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │······│ ┌───────────┐ 0########################·········│ < 1281824575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │······│ │···········│ # ┌─────┐ │········│ < 1281824575 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │0······###########0│···········│ ### │·····│ #######·········│ < 1281824581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I was referring to the screenshot < 1281824586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use a proportional font for IRC anyway... < 1281824590 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too :P < 1281824594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was hoping you didn't < 1281824634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might search the stupid corridor in the middle again, just in case (searching isn't 100% likely to work) < 1281824639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just give up < 1281824645 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I searched it 40 times or so. < 1281824651 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't wanna give up, this is too ridiculous to give up on! < 1281824707 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, that # ## thing, after 40s, revealed a connection between the tw < 1281824708 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two < 1281824712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this level is ludicrous < 1281824724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought there probably would be < 1281824726 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :felix just gave me a lichen corpse, gross < 1281824733 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm hungry < 1281824742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't lichen edible? < 1281824744 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth eating the horrible, awful lichen corpse to stay alive? :D < 1281824748 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but felix just dropped it < 1281824770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, I take it you like role-playing? < 1281824773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It's not like real-life-you personally has to eat it, you know. < 1281824776 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and picked it, and dropped it < 1281824781 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why do you infer that? < 1281824781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That might make the game even less popular.) < 1281824789 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but I might DIE. < 1281824801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it might be old? < 1281824804 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tastes terrible! < 1281824813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably quite old < 1281824869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think lichen corpses actually ever age. < 1281824881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (!tp && mnum != PM_LIZARD && mnum != PM_LICHEN && (otmp->orotten || !rn2(7))) { ... < 1281824890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, lizards and lichen are always safe to eat. < 1281824932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a bit weird that it always either "is delicious" or "tastes terrible"; there's no "is a bit, you know, meh" middle-ground.) < 1281824952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(On the other hand, you *are* eating corpses raw.) < 1281824955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: add "is a bit, you know, meh" now < 1281824961 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acehack must have this vital feature < 1281824964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: doesn't fit with the goals of the fork < 1281825076 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which are? to be MEH? < 1281825092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: same as vanilla, only with a much better interface and bugs fixed < 1281825105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is to not try to take it way off into non-vanilla-land like most forks do < 1281825121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ideally all changes should make the game easier, preferably by reducing interface screw rather than by actually making the gameplay easier < 1281825153 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any other ideas where to search? < 1281825180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try any stretch of three consecutive non-door wall pieces, especially if it's near a relatively open area of the map < 1281825208 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a key to "go to nearest character of this key"? < 1281825214 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if i press F it'll seek to the nearest, say, litchen < 1281825218 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for looking at / etc < 1281825259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that works, but only for staircases, doors, altars, and sinks < 1281825265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think at least one fork expands it to other things < 1281825272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you do it? < 1281825273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for monsters it's a bit harder due to clashes with movement keys) < 1281825279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just press the character < 1281825284 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i meant like a separate character < 1281825291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just pressed ! < 1281825294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. /> examines the downstairs, _> travels to the downstairs < 1281825294 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I do what did I do < 1281825299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! opens a shell recursively < 1281825302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have reset < 1281825302 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1281825304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind-of pointless on UNIX < 1281825306 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1281825307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1281825308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you could just use control-Z < 1281825310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's asking for a new character < 1281825313 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just q that nethack? < 1281825317 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the shell is set to nethack for this terminal) < 1281825318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1281825328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, recursive nethack, how great! < 1281825337 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i'm on the verge of completely giving up < 1281825342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is searching connected corridors worthwhile? < 1281825353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could work in theory; search three squares into the corridor < 1281825360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the most likely place for a secret branch < 1281825366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, I've never seen that technique needed < 1281825380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're curious; instead of quitting, save then reopen in debug mode < 1281825382 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think #nethack will be able to help? (brb) < 1281825387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps < 1281825859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, funny thing, it seems all files are within the actual partition < 1281825865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the fs thinks it is larger < 1281825881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably just twiddling some header would fix it < 1281825933 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the good old ntfs user space tools seems to be able to read everything from it < 1281825942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complaining about it though < 1281826161 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1281826287 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1281826901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: should I just give up? < 1281826910 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you open in debug mode again? root and some command-line switch right? < 1281826910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're still trying? < 1281826913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281826914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just got back < 1281826918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo /usr/games/nethack -D < 1281826934 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel slightly queasy running a game as root. < 1281826936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can map the level with control-F < 1281826952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: so do I; I change that in my own local compiles < 1281826956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if fakeroot works? < 1281826976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it doesn't < 1281826996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ideally, it should require to be run as root but then drop privileges immediately < 1281827003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that it doesn't work on setgid programs < 1281827013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: perhaps < 1281827023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Windows version just needs a password, that makes much more sense < 1281827032 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what password? yours? < 1281827050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why /is/ nethack so protective of its files etc., by the way? originated on multi-user systems? < 1281827065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281827068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is still designed for them < 1281827071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the password's "wizard") < 1281827076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by default) < 1281827092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, i started nethack with -D and it's just gone to the new-character screen < 1281827095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a bunch of people playing NetHack on the same server, it Does The Right Thing in most contexts < 1281827097 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas nethack works < 1281827100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: nethack -D -u alise < 1281827101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because root doesn ot have my save files? < 1281827104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to load the same savefile < 1281827109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually, you could be righ < 1281827110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1281827111 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean -u ehird < 1281827115 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my unix username is ehird < 1281827122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, none of those work < 1281827125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, under -u you give the name of the character < 1281827129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's a UID check as well < 1281827135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just rename the savefile from 1000alise to 0wizard < 1281827139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then open it < 1281827144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: acehack proposal: ./configure --single-user :P < 1281827146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it kills you by trickery for doing that < 1281827154 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does check filename, no? < 1281827164 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (puts stuff in ~/.nethack, say, not the root-privileged directories) < 1281827166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it compares the filename to something else < 1281827177 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to keep a copy of the savefile just in case? < 1281827180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, that's just ./configure --prefix=~/nethack or whatever < 1281827207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but installs system-wide < 1281827211 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: everyone has their own high-scores, etc. < 1281827217 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no setgid needed, everyone can use wizard mode, ... < 1281827221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281827225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders why he has a tab opened on the XChat docs... and why there's a plugin module for Falcon < 1281827229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd spoil most of the fun < 1281827238 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think if the dev team could, they'd make it search your entire disk for nethack save files < 1281827243 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kill all your characters if you've copied one out < 1281827268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[To get to the wizard mode, you must start the game with the command "nethack -D -u wizard".]] < 1281827272 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you must play as wizard < 1281827279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281827285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the windows version < 1281827291 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1281827293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the -u wizard is implied by the -D and being root, on UNIX/Linux < 1281827296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought, at least < 1281827297 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then goes on to "In Windows, ..." < 1281827300 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, maybe < 1281827303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Debian/Ubuntu, starting NetHack as root using "sudo /usr/games/nethack -D" gets you into wizard mode. < 1281827308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only on debian < 1281827314 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how peculiar < 1281827322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: no, that's just due to the changes from the default config < 1281827325 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281827333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the /default/ UNIX config requires your UNIX username to be "wizard" < 1281827335 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently you can run nethack in debug mode with gdb < 1281827337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a little ridiculous < 1281827342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: but only if it isn't suid < 1281827344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sgid < 1281827349 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, it has to be uid 0 /and/ named "wizard"? < 1281827356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1281827358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just named wizard < 1281827362 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281827383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for extra fun, the config option that selects this is called KR1ED for apparently no reason at all < 1281827405 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nethack, i'm hardly surprised < 1281827445 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i like wikihack's annotated source < 1281827454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only way to understand the code is literate programming < 1281827461 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pseudo-literate < 1281827487 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1281827555 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's some random function that actually depends on the phase of the moon, isn't there? < 1281827563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rnl, but only indirectly < 1281827585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it gave different results yesterday < 1281827590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(due to it being friday the 13th) < 1281827594 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30. x = RND(x); < 1281827595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31. return(x); < 1281827595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32. #else < 1281827595 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33. return(RND(x)); < 1281827600 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth do they do it like that < 1281827611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because one of the versions is utterly broken on some compiler or otehr < 1281827612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*other < 1281827621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're shitting me < 1281827631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and either they have to write a huge comment "don't change this apparently ridiculous code because it breaks on (insert obscure compiler here)" < 1281827633 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it has special behaviour, unintentionally, on friday the 13th? < 1281827636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just write it both ways with a #ifdef < 1281827638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: intentionally < 1281827641 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281827643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281827646 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were talking about the source code < 1281827646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unintentionally would be ridiculous < 1281827656 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it only does it the verbose way in debug mode, though < 1281827662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that depends on debug mode? < 1281827665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281827668 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also checks for a negative value < 1281827671 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in debug mode < 1281827673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, it's a #ifdef ATARI or #ifdef GCC_BUG or whatever < 1281827679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I bet it's just a location for a breakpoint < 1281827682 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281827691 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how hacky :D < 1281827711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: looking at rnl, i don't see where the time comes in < 1281827712 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the Luck? < 1281827718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281827718 0 :Oranjer!~HP_Admini@adsl-71-4-53.cae.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1281827720 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281827722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said "indirectly" < 1281827723 0 :Oranjer!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1281827742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a full moon gives a consistent +1 to Luck < 1281827757 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i ever mentioned that nethack is insane? < 1281827777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281827783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that sort of details I love, though < 1281827796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the least lucky day to play on? :) < 1281827806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had #tasvideos (specifically Ilari) write a program for bruteforcing all the new moon friday 13ths over the next century, just so we could play at hardest difficulty < 1281827820 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, Ilari is here too :P < 1281827826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know < 1281827840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the next new moon friday 13th? < 1281827897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the thread < 1281827904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1281827939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2015-11-13 < 1281827946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9771 < 1281827957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll be 19/20. < 1281827968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary. < 1281827976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you /could/ just set the clock < 1281827986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how it's done in a TAS, ofc < 1281827989 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=239663&highlight=#239663 < 1281827992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pick the optimal clock time < 1281828058 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unfortunately, as it's possible to manipulate luck without spending any gametime and the RNG seed space is incredibly large, minimum gametime would probably take several decades or even centuries to watch." :D < 1281828082 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1281828087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember that amazing pokemon something TAS that completed the game in a few frames of gametime < 1281828105 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was beautiful < 1281828163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it was improved < 1281828163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frames? < 1281828168 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? < 1281828171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sixtieths of a second < 1281828175 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall it being absurdly quick, but... *Frames*?!? < 1281828177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: it now no longer leaves the main character's bedroom < 1281828177 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's two of them, the faster one and slower one. Both catch the infamous 152nd pokemon. < 1281828180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it was less than a second < 1281828182 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so yes < 1281828186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ... < 1281828186 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got a link? < 1281828194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: of gametime, not of menutime etc < 1281828195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: So... Not the 2 minute one. < 1281828197 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no < 1281828200 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, gametime. < 1281828201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1281828202 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: much quicker < 1281828213 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that includes in-game menus < 1281828216 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: just not the intro menus < 1281828220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1281828225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tasvideos.org/1582M.html < 1281828235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's around 2 minutes, though < 1281828241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be thinking of King's Bounty, but that isn't a pokemon game < 1281828246 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The interesting bottleneck, which gametime speedruns keep coming up against in non-TAS runs, is that it's impossible to access the Quest, which contains one of the items absolutely necessary to complete the game, before turn 2000, which puts some interesting constraints on the run." < 1281828251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do N. when you're ready? < 1281828258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you're thinking of King's Bounty. < 1281828261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's one possibility < 1281828265 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not thinking of that < 1281828268 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1281828274 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@93-82-40-160.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1281828275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that less than a minute one is the one i meant < 1281828276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: That one actually *has* a few-frame TAS. < 1281828282 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :king's bounty is shit though :P < 1281828296 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: youtube's html5 player is rubbish < 1281828305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pokemon Yellow TAS is just absurd. < 1281828329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory corruption FTW. < 1281828342 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TASes are probably the closest thing to performance art video games have < 1281828370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much. < 1281828375 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have. < 1281828394 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, he leaves the bedroom < 1281828396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zFhVr-oMcU < 1281828400 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to go to glitchland < 1281828406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1281828413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's once everything's set up < 1281828425 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; he rewrites the memory so that the exit of the bedroom is the victory room. < 1281828439 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1281828447 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you have 62 ash, and a error rating!" --YouTube < 1281828502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is JPC-RR? < 1281828510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rerecording PC emulator < 1281828515 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1281828520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow as hell... < 1281828522 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just mod nethack's code? < 1281828524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in Java. < 1281828526 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do rerecording < 1281828542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have to do that separately for every game < 1281828544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, NetHack is insane < 1281828546 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably for this nethack speedrun you'd only record a frame when you press a key? < 1281828552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you'd have a lot of wasted time < 1281828557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the debates about the goal have been really large < 1281828564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, NetHack's RNG is action-based, not time-based < 1281828579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, we need to get it done in less than an hour in order to play at hardest difficulty < 1281828591 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: presumably for this nethack speedrun you'd only record a frame when you press a key? < 1281828611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: JPC-RR emulates quite a slow system < 1281828616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you record a frame every onscreen frame < 1281828621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but still... < 1281828625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so unoptimal! < 1281828627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many actions are slow enough that you actually see the game grinding < 1281828643 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one frame per keypress would be amazing < 1281828648 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would be "theoretically" o < 1281828650 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*possible < 1281828656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what you're talking about < 1281828659 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a robot attached to a computer instead of a keyboard < 1281828665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, imagine a quick computer < 1281828670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can enter multiple keys per frame < 1281828670 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, drop the divider a bit and it will be faster system (and even slower emulation). < 1281828674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the computer speed really doesn't matter < 1281828677 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now imagine that every time you press a key and nethack responds, it records a frame in the video < 1281828680 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's it < 1281828689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many keys lead to no onscreen response, though < 1281828696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you know what i mean < 1281828697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as you spend half your time walking into walls to manipulate the RNG < 1281828702 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it 0.5s after you press it or something < 1281828715 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never press more often than that; i'm talking about the theoretical idea < 1281828771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, you have to use 0root.gz < 1281828773 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 0wizard < 1281828782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1281828796 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and thanks to that, nethack just erased the file < 1281828799 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird@dinky ~]$ sudo nethack -D -u wizard < 1281828801 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LOL ITS NOT URS" < 1281828802 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's gone < 1281828805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's up with that??? < 1281828813 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the wizard's fault that root tried to intrude < 1281828822 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing i backed it up < 1281828826 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1281828829 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it has to be 0wizard < 1281828833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just that it realised it was alise's file. < 1281828833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I thought so < 1281828845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack's full of protections against that sort of thing < 1281828846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tweak that? < 1281828853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only with a recompile, I think < 1281828859 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's debug mode ffs! < 1281828881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts a new game, disgruntled < 1281828887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this way you can debug the anti-cheat protection! < 1281828888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay katana < 1281828916 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION satiated < 1281828935 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is sokoban optional? < 1281828939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1281828945 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good; i'm terrible at sokoban < 1281828947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there's some decent loot there < 1281828966 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: all very well but i can't play the simplest sokoban levels outside of nethack < 1281829030 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Actually, Ais523 planned to do the run by using special hacked Linux version (modified to behave like DOS version would) recording the needed keyboard input and then just spamming that input (together with the boot sequence input) to emulator using Lua (which will cause final movie file (unless edited) to have RERECORDS 0)." < 1281829034 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's basically what i was proposing < 1281829162 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281829187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You hear someone counting money." < 1281829189 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the first level? < 1281829192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vault on the level < 1281829198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not a shop, that's a different message) < 1281829206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaults are disconnected from everything else, and contain money < 1281829235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you get there? < 1281829254 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a teleport. ha < 1281829269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or digging < 1281829275 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? < 1281829281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pickaxe, wand of digging, mattock < 1281829283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the spell < 1281829289 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, remember when i said level 1? :P < 1281829300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a picaxe at level 1 < 1281829304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pickaxe < 1281829307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just play archeologist < 1281829308 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lichen! goblin throwing orcish dagger! wowzers! < 1281829315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the goblin killed the lichen < 1281829316 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, goblin < 1281829422 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just picked up a large box. < 1281829425 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad idea? Probably. < 1281829451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they're rather heavy and don't do anything useful < 1281829455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't do much useful < 1281829460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try looking inside it, but it's probably locked < 1281829480 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, how do you look inside again? < 1281829484 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1281829492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#loot on the floor, or a in inventory < 1281829502 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not locked < 1281829509 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at ripe ration and a wire ring < 1281829511 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1281829519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than nothing, I suppose < 1281829592 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1281829625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably impossible to reach this vault, isn't it? < 1281829639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this stage in the game, mostly < 1281829647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's likely a teleport trap somewhere which sends you into it < 1281829653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't help much, as it won't let you back /out/ < 1281829676 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's some graffiti on the floor here. You read: "Wcl| Come".--More-- < 1281829684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just random graffiti < 1281829689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird graffiti < 1281829692 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it distorted "Well Come"? < 1281829712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1281829738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well Come", /* Prisoner */ < 1281829752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They all are references to something or other.) < 1281829763 0 :relet!~thomas@c905DBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1281829785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there ever a . break in a wall without path after it? < 1281829791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can happen < 1281829794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's rare < 1281829802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the one with a phone number -- "For a good time call 8?7-5309" -- has a pre-corrupted one digit to not make it any real number ever. < 1281829803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dungeon isn't in the best state of repair < 1281829833 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly not so rare; i've s'ed it 40 or so times and nothing < 1281829844 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: don't they know you're meant to use 555-! < 1281829869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay a fountain, i forgot what fountains do ... < 1281829873 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this knowledge has just leaked out of my brain < 1281829886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fountains generate snakes to kill you. :p < 1281829902 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted :P < 1281829931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can do a lot of other things too, though. < 1281829939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a water demon. :p < 1281829942 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This water's no good! The fountain dries up! < 1281829948 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each item in your inventory has 1/5 chance of being cursed outright; your hunger is increased and your constitution is abused. < 1281829955 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful! < 1281829957 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how fucked am I? < 1281829968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never quaff fountains < 1281829972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, seriously < 1281829975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1281829975 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1281829976 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too late < 1281829979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that doesn't screw you up too badly early game < 1281829981 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was a Good Thing < 1281829982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much worse late on < 1281829993 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much of my stuff is poisoned, yay < 1281830003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1281830003 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cursed < 1281830018 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the thing you're /meant/ to do with fountains? < 1281830030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're situationally useful for dipping things in < 1281830033 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can Excaliburize swords in there, under certain conditions. < 1281830038 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fountain quaffing is the specific practice of immediately quaffing from every fountain you find, in the hope of releasing a water demon and getting an early wish. In a lesser form, most inexperienced players will unintentionally engage in this behavior; this is unfortunate as most fountain quaffers die after a few hundred turns, but those with experience don't mind because they can just start again." < 1281830087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have good luck (I mean the real-world sense, not the game-attribute sense) there: it's 1/30 to get the cursing thing. (Many others are also negative, though you *can* find gems and such too.) < 1281830087 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You displaced Felix. Click! Felix triggers something.--More-- < 1281830094 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are hit by a boulder! The boulder misses Felix. < 1281830099 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STUPID FUCKING CAT < 1281830112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't cats supposed to be agile and not boulder-trap-triggering sort?-) < 1281830113 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: by good luck do you mean terrible luck? < 1281830120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1281830124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1281830130 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *the boulder-trap-triggering sort < 1281830137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have meant to write "terrible" there. < 1281830146 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better if you didn't intend to < 1281830154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am not entirely undrunken at the moment, sorry about that.) < 1281830169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Is that even a word?)) < 1281830180 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you normally use nested parentheses when drunk? < 1281830215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sometimes use them when sober (that's the word I was looking for there), but that's not proper nesting, to do ((x)) like that. < 1281830234 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... autonesting! < 1281830240 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What is your opinion on crabs? < 1281830258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a difference between (x) and ((x)) < 1281830264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So surely you mean ((x)) when you say ((x)) < 1281830269 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How quickly should I eat after I start to feel hungry? ais523? < 1281830274 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never judge how serious it is. < 1281830274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"(slang) pubic lice"? < 1281830293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: generally, you should eat nonpermafood whenever you find it < 1281830298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and permafood, you can wait until you become Weak < 1281830301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you're satiated < 1281830305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although eating it at Hungry is fine < 1281830308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: right < 1281830310 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i'll wait < 1281830315 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only have one ration i know to be uncursed < 1281830319 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : d - an uncursed food ration < 1281830320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i - 2 food rations < 1281830320 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : k - a tripe ration < 1281830336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was something bad about walking around when satiated, wasn't there? < 1281830345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two downstairs; one will go to somewhere small, right? < 1281830377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mines would be the first branchy point, wouldn't it? < 1281830383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Small relative to the rest of the dungeon < 1281830389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not "small" in normal terms < 1281830396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valkyrie needs food, badly! You stop searching. < 1281830396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VALKYRIE CAN HAS CHEEZBURGR < 1281830396 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA