←2010-08-15 2010-08-16 2010-08-17→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:07 <alise> ok, well, any suggestions for the mines?
00:00:12 <Sgeo> No clue
00:00:19 <Sgeo> Don't let the fountain in Minetown dry up
00:00:30 <Sgeo> And you may or may not want to buy candles at the lighting shop
00:00:33 <alise> Why?
00:00:36 <alise> Also, mines, not minetown.
00:00:39 <Sgeo> You'll need 7 candles eventually
00:02:19 <alise> I meant fountain.
00:02:21 <alise> Sgeo: I'm missing a cat.
00:02:44 <alise> do gecko corpses spoil?
00:02:56 <Sgeo> Don't know, but they don't count as lizard corpses
00:03:52 <Sgeo> DNA
00:04:01 <Sgeo> And not in some weird NSFW sense
00:04:19 <alise> looks useless
00:04:29 <Sgeo> YOu'd hitchhike without a towel?
00:04:36 <alise> no, but i'm not hitchhiking
00:04:44 <Sgeo> And you're reference-failing
00:04:56 <alise> i know what you are referencing
00:05:09 <Sgeo> There is a reason I'm referencing it
00:05:31 <Sgeo> Although one of the uses is covered by the blindfold
00:05:40 <Sgeo> You can also clean your hands (I think) or your face
00:05:48 <alise> yeah, but ...
00:06:11 <Sgeo> Don't eat it if you didn't see it die
00:06:34 <alise> is eating gnome corpses cannibalism?
00:06:39 <Sgeo> I have no idea
00:06:41 <Sgeo> Sorry
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00:10:19 <alise> Sgeo: are these gems worth anything at all
00:10:24 <alise> or are they junk
00:10:28 <alise> should i test them?
00:10:41 <Sgeo> Yes, but even then, I doubt you need them that much
00:10:49 <Sgeo> Just keep the known valuables
00:10:52 <Sgeo> I guess
00:11:32 <Sgeo> Make sure valuable green cal also engrave
00:11:42 <Sgeo> In case having written in the dust already causes weirdness
00:11:53 <alise> hm?
00:11:58 <alise> i tested that one
00:11:58 <alise> ages ago
00:12:00 <alise> in sokoban
00:12:18 <Sgeo> What if, if there's writing in the dust, all gems will then write in the dust, making some of the tests you just did worthlesS?
00:12:29 <alise> gas spore, uh oh
00:13:09 <alise> peaceful white unicorn!
00:13:26 <Sgeo> Yes
00:13:29 <Sgeo> That's what gems are for
00:13:41 <alise> ?
00:14:05 <Sgeo> http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Unicorn#Unicorns_and_gems
00:14:18 <alise> Sting is among the weakest of artifacts. If you touch it, even if you are of the wrong alignment, it will not blast you unless you are an orc. For all purposes, Sting is only a normal elven dagger, except that it happens to do more damage to orcs and that it cuts through all webs.
00:14:19 <alise> sweet
00:14:29 <alise> XD
00:15:33 <alise> Sgeo: meh
00:15:37 <alise> Sgeo: does that stuff actually matter at all?
00:15:45 <Sgeo> I'd say Luck matters a lot
00:15:50 <Sgeo> There may also be other uses for gems
00:15:57 <alise> i'm doing well with terrible luck
00:16:02 <alise> anyway i have valuable gems, so there we go
00:16:05 <alise> should i throw them at a unicorn?
00:16:17 <Sgeo> Ask #nethack
00:18:56 <alise> how do i show my points in the status bar?
00:19:06 <Sgeo> An option perhaps?
00:19:14 <alise> probably
00:19:16 <alise> whoa 4 viewers
00:20:37 <alise> oh lord
00:21:36 <alise> Sgeo: is it wise to kill one of those gnomes to eat their corpse, do you think?
00:21:46 <Sgeo> Note your HP
00:22:14 <Sgeo> Don't you have a food ration?
00:22:17 <alise> one
00:22:23 <alise> i'm waiting until i'm weak, no?
00:22:26 <alise> if i can get this gnome corpse
00:22:28 <Sgeo> Hmm, I guess
00:22:32 <alise> then i can save the ration
00:23:21 <Sgeo> Wow, that was unfilling
00:23:22 <alise> i'm still hungry
00:23:24 <alise> but it's bought me some time
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00:27:51 <alise> Sgeo: how am i doing XD
00:28:04 <Sgeo> Very pit-ily
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00:28:12 <alise> Sgeo: no but seriously now.
00:28:17 <Sgeo> *shrug*
00:28:25 <alise> i avoided exploring that area due to the low light :P
00:28:30 <Sgeo> You still have no reflection
00:28:35 <alise> not necessarily
00:28:40 <Sgeo> Erm, no automatic reflection
00:28:54 <alise> b + a potion of full healing
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00:29:21 <alise> hell. yeah.
00:29:25 <alise> *hells.
00:29:53 <Sgeo> Is that an altar or a fluke?
00:30:01 <Sgeo> There should be guaranteed altar in Minetown
00:30:10 <alise> wall
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00:31:21 <Sgeo> DOAS is on the Plane of Water
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00:31:33 <alise> yep
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00:32:03 <Sgeo> I was about to recommend against that
00:32:19 <alise> how long until daos ascends?
00:32:37 <alise> FUUU
00:32:41 <Sgeo> Wait, what just happened?
00:32:46 <Sgeo> What did you just do?
00:32:49 <alise> Sgeo: I tried to swap my cloak.
00:32:53 <alise> It's cursed.
00:32:54 <alise> So I can't.
00:32:54 <Sgeo> Oh, ok
00:33:08 <alise> studded leather armor any good?
00:33:09 <Sgeo> I thought you put on the amulet and it was something you really wanted to take off
00:33:11 <Sgeo> *shrug*
00:33:38 <alise> There is a 82 in 964, or ~8.5%, chance that a randomly spawned armor object will be studded leather armor.
00:33:47 <alise> that sounds like good armor
00:33:51 <alise> if it's that rare
00:34:04 <alise> i can drop the small shield, can't i?
00:34:12 <Sgeo> I don't know
00:34:21 <Sgeo> Have I ever mentioned that I never ascended?
00:34:56 <alise> i'm nowhere near ascending
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00:41:41 <Sgeo> Ooh, flute
00:42:40 <alise> sparkle is confused from hunger
00:42:46 <alise> will it eat eggs? :P
00:43:21 <Sgeo> I wouldn't throw the egg
00:43:21 <alise> Sgeo: daos astral
00:43:25 <Sgeo> I see
00:43:41 <alise> what?
00:43:58 <Sgeo> I'm watching DOAS now
00:46:46 <alise> I just found out about travel
00:46:51 <alise> why didn't you tell me about this before :P
00:47:40 <Sgeo> I tried
00:48:04 <alise> :P
00:48:07 <alise> Sgeo: dlvl 7, woot
00:48:19 <alise> wish ais was here to tell me how badly i'm doing :D
00:50:26 <alise> Sgeo: My pet strategy: "Okay, let's split up; I'll meet you later."
00:50:39 <alise> Sgeo: a shop!
00:50:47 <Sgeo> Minetown?
00:50:58 <alise> maybe
00:51:00 <alise> looks like mines to me
00:51:07 <alise> ± a tree
00:51:13 <alise> that does not look like a tree
00:51:23 <Sgeo> It's green
00:51:31 <Sgeo> There is an altar on minetown
00:51:44 <Sgeo> If it's coaligned, you'll be able to make holy water
00:51:46 <Sgeo> If you get some water
00:51:57 <alise> here's a fountain
00:52:04 <alise> how do i uncurse my shit?
00:52:06 <alise> or is that at an altar
00:52:27 <Sgeo> Fountain might have a chance, but at altar you can make holy water
00:52:33 <Sgeo> And check BUC of that amulet
00:52:42 <alise> ok
00:52:50 <Sgeo> Well, holy water only if altar is coaligned
00:53:36 <alise> anything i can do with the fountain?
00:54:18 <Sgeo> Sorry, not paying attention >.>
00:54:34 <alise> watch captain
00:54:35 <alise> lol
00:54:53 <Sgeo> alise, did you anger the watch captain?
00:54:58 <alise> both of them, yep
00:55:04 <alise> my pet started killing a watch person
00:55:05 <alise> so i helped
00:55:06 <alise> now ... this
00:55:10 <alise> am i fucked?
00:55:19 <Sgeo> Check HP
00:55:22 <alise> 63
00:55:31 <alise> RIP one of my pets
00:55:33 <Sgeo> RIP Felix
00:55:52 <alise> Sgeo: praying time soon
00:56:10 <alise> Sgeo: will zapping that wand i have help?
01:00:49 <alise> Sgeo: how do you engrave id again?
01:01:01 <Sgeo> Write some junk in the dust
01:01:06 <Sgeo> (with your finger)
01:01:10 <Sgeo> Then write using the wand
01:01:15 <Sgeo> Be aware that you may go blind
01:01:57 <alise> The bugs on the floor speed up!
01:01:58 <Sgeo> Wand of Seed Monster
01:02:00 <Sgeo> *Speed
01:02:01 <alise> speed
01:02:28 <Sgeo> Cold
01:03:06 <Sgeo> That's all of the wands?
01:03:10 <alise> Yep.
01:03:21 <alise> Can I ID those potions somehow?
01:03:24 <alise> Without quaffing them.
01:05:32 <Sgeo> No idea, a shop might help slightly
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01:51:40 <alise> hi coppro
01:52:39 <alise> Sgeo: are tins any useful?
01:52:41 <alise> *any good?
01:52:42 <alise> for food
01:52:50 <Sgeo> Depends what's in it
01:52:53 <alise> mm
01:52:54 <alise> nevermind
01:52:56 <Sgeo> Don't eat while hallucinating
01:53:10 <Sgeo> Otherwise you can't tell a cockatrice tin from lizard
01:53:19 <alise> XD
01:53:22 <Sgeo> And let's just say cockatrice meat isn't that tasty
01:55:59 <alise> Sgeo: cursed scrolls are a bit useless, right?
01:56:06 <alise> K - a cursed wand of striking
01:56:11 <alise> that's *definitely* useless ... yeah?
01:56:32 <Sgeo> Um
01:56:40 <Sgeo> You've used it before, haven't you?
01:56:59 <alise> well. yeah
01:56:59 <coppro> cursed wands usually don't do much different
01:57:19 <coppro> cursed striking is certainly fine
01:57:23 <Sgeo> DOAS ascended
01:57:38 <alise> coppro: well, /you/ suggest how to lighten my load :)
01:58:01 <coppro> Sgeo: link to the victorydump?
01:58:11 <Sgeo> http://alt.org/nethack/userdata/DeathOnAStick/dumplog/1264355342.nh343.txt
01:58:30 <coppro> lol ><
02:00:54 <alise> coppro: hmm
02:01:01 <alise> a cursed amulet is us... no, i can cleanse it
02:01:05 <alise> are daggers heavy?
02:01:27 <alise> apparently not
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02:03:24 <alise> Okay, seriously, I need to drop something.
02:08:43 <Sgeo> I thought I figured out a good self-imposed challenge in You Have to Burn the Rope, but it's actually impossible that way, I think
02:09:52 <alise> you have to burn the rope has /any/ challenges?
02:10:09 <Sgeo> If you don't use the easy route to the rope...
02:10:18 <Sgeo> But the hard route seems impossible, not just hard
02:11:03 <alise> Sgeo: any tips for lightening my load?
02:11:11 <alise> also, any way other than a BoH to get more space in my huge pokcets?
02:11:13 <alise> *pockets?
02:11:24 <Sgeo> Sorry
02:11:29 <Sgeo> Um, don't carry lodestones
02:11:35 <alise> Am I?
02:12:41 <Sgeo> I don't think so
02:12:51 <Sgeo> Ask #nethack ?
02:12:59 <alise> i've asked them enough >_>
02:13:06 <pikhq> alise: All that exists is that you have to burn the rope.
02:13:19 <alise> i know that
02:13:22 <pikhq> Oh, and the axes that don't do anything.
02:13:31 <Sgeo> YHTBTR difficulty idea: Stay in range of Grinning Colossus for 5min without getting hit once
02:13:31 <alise> pikhq: you should totally tell me to lose some items
02:13:35 <Sgeo> Then burn the rope
02:14:41 <pikhq> Sgeo: Moot point; you can't die.
02:15:15 <Sgeo> Yes, but reset the mental counter when you get it
02:15:17 <Sgeo> *hit
02:15:37 <alise> so basically you're inventing your own game
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02:16:05 <pikhq> Valid, but yeah...
02:17:12 <alise> pikhq: telnet termcast.org
02:17:14 <alise> select alise
02:17:18 <alise> help me be able to work smoothly :P
02:17:23 <alise> ...or ELSEIF
02:18:56 <alise> whoa, i have five viewers
02:20:26 <Sgeo> I may watch SGU now
02:20:31 <alise> Sgeo: are my diluted potions useful?
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02:20:43 <Sgeo> Don't get them wet again unless you want water
02:20:43 <alise> coppro: here, you're my new official executive advisor >.>
02:20:57 <Sgeo> Although they may be less effective diluted, I think
02:21:07 <alise> basically i need to drop shit.
02:24:44 <coppro> alise: #quit
02:25:47 <alise> coppro: why.
02:25:54 <alise> i'm doing well
02:26:55 <Sgeo> Narrowly escaped the wraith of the watch
02:26:56 <coppro> because I'm a good corrupt executive advisor.
02:27:29 <alise> coppro: you should have seen it, i had tons of people in #nethack guiding me through every turn
02:27:32 <alise> i killed a watchman
02:27:37 <alise> then ended up fighting the watch captains
02:27:40 <alise> escaped a floor up
02:27:41 <alise> regained hp
02:27:43 <alise> went down
02:27:46 <alise> ran past the watch as fast as i could
02:27:48 <alise> went into a shop
02:27:55 <alise> spent ages /trying to steal things/ and failing
02:27:57 <alise> finally stole something
02:27:59 <alise> got out
02:28:06 <alise> ran all the way around to the shop, gaggle of watch on my trail
02:28:14 <alise> then with something like 18 HP left
02:28:17 <alise> paid back the shopkeeper
02:28:22 <alise> and spammed elbereth to keep the q off me
02:28:27 <alise> (the paying back the shopkeeper pacified the watch)
02:28:35 <Sgeo> Panicked when shopkeeper said that e was after blood, not money
02:28:37 <alise> i was a turn or two away from death
02:28:46 <Sgeo> Hey, is shk now letting you in the store?
02:28:50 <Sgeo> There may be some markup
02:28:56 <alise> oh yeah, i attacked the shk by mistake :D
02:28:59 <alise> Sgeo: hm?
02:29:18 <alise> You read:
02:29:18 <alise> "ElberethElbercthElberethElberethElbere?hElbercthEl?erethElberetwElberethE?bKre
02:29:18 <alise> thElberetqElberWthElberc?h|lberetnE
02:29:18 <alise> beretrE?be?ethEl5?reth[lbcrethElberet?".--More--
02:29:27 <Sgeo> Try chatting
02:29:32 <Sgeo> Hm
02:29:38 <alise> nothing's changed
02:29:41 <alise> i paid him back
02:29:48 <Sgeo> And he's not angry, huh
02:29:54 <alise> i paid him back, why would he be angry!
02:30:03 <Sgeo> Because he was after blood
02:30:05 <Sgeo> Where's Izchat?
02:30:09 <Sgeo> *Izchak?
02:30:13 <alise> izchak?
02:30:19 <alise> he was only after blood because i hit him
02:30:21 <Sgeo> Lighting store owner
02:30:21 <alise> then i settled with money
02:30:25 <alise> lighting store?
02:30:29 <Sgeo> Candles and stuff
02:30:34 <Sgeo> Maybe a lamp which may be magic
02:30:35 <alise> where is that?
02:30:44 <Sgeo> Should be Minetown I think
02:31:19 <Sgeo> The Absurd tileset would have NSFW imagery right here
02:31:30 <alise> the one on http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Incubus?
02:32:01 <Sgeo> Uh, not that the default tileset is SFW, I guess
02:32:34 <alise> oh yeah, i'm female
02:32:37 <alise> The incubus murmurs in your ear, while helping you undress.--More--
02:32:41 <alise> "Shall I remove your cloak, lover?" [yn] (n)
02:32:46 <alise> yes!
02:32:47 <alise> it's cursed
02:32:59 <alise> if an incubus removes stuff do you get to keep it?
02:33:02 <Sgeo> There may be some negative effects to sex
02:33:05 <Sgeo> yes, I think
02:33:21 <alise> i'll just let him undress me then
02:33:32 <alise> Time stands still while you and the incubus lie in each other's arms...--More--
02:33:35 <alise> The incubus seems to have enjoyed it more than you...--More--
02:33:36 <alise> You feel drained of energy.--More--
02:33:39 <alise> The incubus takes 615 zorkmids for services rendered!--More--
02:33:44 <alise> Prostitute :|
02:33:57 <alise> feel "drained of energy;" lose all your power and reduce maximum by 1-10; abuse constitution.
02:34:01 <alise> that's not so good
02:34:04 <alise> otoh, did do me a service
02:34:24 <alise> Sgeo: is ascending to get to that leather armor in lieu of chain mail a good idea?
02:34:30 <Sgeo> I don't know
02:36:58 <Sgeo> alise kicks dogs
02:38:49 <alise> uh oh
02:38:51 <alise> food poisoning
02:39:42 <alise> vomiting from eating tripe, a rotten egg, or in SporkHack, drinking a potion of salt water. This is quite unreliable, but it's there.
02:39:43 <alise> ooh
02:39:44 <alise> i have an old egg
02:39:47 <alise> worth a try, right?
02:40:22 <Sgeo> FoodPois is preventable
02:40:30 <alise> yes, but it's also too late
02:40:34 <alise> so let's work on cures right now
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03:25:01 <augur> someone!
03:25:04 <augur> completethis sequence
03:25:08 <augur> pirates, ninjas, zombies, ...
03:31:31 <oerjan> robots.
03:39:17 <augur> anything else? :\
03:40:46 <oerjan> gremlins.
03:40:53 <augur> bah
03:41:19 <oerjan> ghosts
03:41:26 <augur> bah!
03:41:48 <oerjan> aliens
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04:24:08 <zzo38> I have found some problem compute !x without using ! (in C). Legal ops: ~ & ^ | + << >>
04:24:30 <zzo38> I did this way, but I don't know if it is consider as cheating: (1&(1<<x))
04:26:55 <oerjan> !c printf("%d\n", 1<<1000);
04:27:04 <EgoBot> 0
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04:33:40 * oerjan isn't sure if there is a better way
04:39:12 <oerjan> oh!
04:39:49 <zzo38> !c printf("\001PING\001\n");
04:40:30 <oerjan> you _must_ use << or >> for this, because none of the other operations can make the LSB depend on any non-LSB of x
04:41:06 <zzo38> Of course there are other ways that don't involve variables on the right side, but those ways are longer.
04:41:15 <zzo38> (1&(1<<x)) is short way.
04:41:45 <oerjan> in fact only + can communicate between different bit positions, but only towards more significant bits
04:41:52 <oerjan> (of the rest)
04:42:37 <oerjan> um and can those ways be made independent of bitsize?
04:43:01 * oerjan has some doubts there
04:43:07 <zzo38> I don't think the longer ways are independent of bitsize, as far as I know
04:43:28 <oerjan> then i say your solution is best :)
04:43:56 <oerjan> although i don't know c enough to know if << with a right side > bitsize is portable..
04:44:05 <oerjan> * >= bitsize
04:44:29 <zzo38> I don't know either
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05:09:28 <zeotrope> oerjan: it is undefined behaviour, so it is not portable
05:09:42 <oerjan> aw
05:09:55 <oerjan> well as suspected i guess
05:14:40 <zeotrope> k&r says "The result is undefined if the right operand is negative, or greater than
05:14:43 <zeotrope> or equal to the number of bits in the left expression's type.
05:14:47 <zeotrope> "
05:16:24 <oerjan> hm this might mean that there _is_ no portable solution for zzo38's problem
05:17:01 <Sgeo> What's zzo38's problem?
05:17:16 <oerjan> one page up
05:20:22 <lifthrasiir> given x, x|=x>>1; x|=x>>2; x|=x>>4; ... x|=x>>16; x|=x<<1; x|=x<<2; ... x|=x<<16; x+1;
05:20:41 <lifthrasiir> of course not that concise, but it will work
05:21:15 <oerjan> lifthrasiir: how is that portable? note by that i include unknown bitsize
05:21:43 <lifthrasiir> oerjan, then that would be slightly harder
05:21:48 <lifthrasiir> hmm
05:21:55 <oerjan> also i imagined it should be a single expression. and , is not allowed.
05:21:55 <Sgeo> Any portable way to determine bitsize?
05:22:11 <oerjan> or assignment operators
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05:24:42 <oerjan> i guess it's a _little_ vague what you're allowed to use beside operators :)
05:25:49 <lifthrasiir> oerjan, so is there any simpler way to map non-zeroes and zero to two different values? ;)
05:26:11 <lifthrasiir> if we have multiplication operator available then that may be possible though...
05:26:38 <oerjan> well.. what do _those_ do on overflow...
05:27:01 <lifthrasiir> aargh
05:27:05 <oerjan> for that matter even + isn't safe with signed types, i hear
05:27:45 <lifthrasiir> any possible overflow leads to the undefined behavior in ISO C, right?
05:28:04 <lifthrasiir> (i don't have a copy of the specification right now)
05:28:13 * oerjan doesn't really know these things
05:29:22 <oerjan> i'm just sort of assuming that anything that can reasonably be interpreted in different ways is undefined
05:33:18 <zeotrope> have you looked here http://graphics.stanford.edu/~seander/bithacks.html
05:36:43 <zzo38> zeotrope: I already have that page open right now, actually.
05:38:30 <zzo38> Are you sure about the overflow leading to undefined behavior? For adding and subtracting, overflow should not result in undefined behavior, as long as you don't use some strange representation with -0 and +0 seperate, but none of that is used anymore
05:38:44 <zzo38> For multiplication and division, there might be undefined, maybe???
05:39:52 <zzo38> (Some of the things in the bithacks.html I will first think of it myself before following the link and then see if my way is same or not)
05:40:40 <oerjan> zzo38: i recall addition and subtraction overflow are undefined for _signed_ values, but not for unsigned ones (those are guaranteed to behave as operators wrt. a modulus iiuc)
05:43:12 <zeotrope> "Unsigned integers, declared using the keyword unsigned, obey the laws of arithmetic modulo
05:43:14 <zeotrope> 2n where n is the number of bits in the representation, and thus arithmetic on unsigned
05:43:18 <zeotrope> quantities can never overflow.
05:44:25 <zeotrope> that's: 2^n
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05:51:17 <zzo38> Why is the description for SDL_Color in English and French? (Does it belong to the Government of Canada????)
05:55:34 <zeotrope> I think the Canadian version is named SDL_Colour :P
05:56:58 <zzo38> Yes you are right, if it does belong to the Government of Canada they would do that
05:59:00 <pikhq> zeotrope: And LSMD_Couleur.
06:00:50 <zeotrope> it is strange though, only that page has french translation
06:05:57 * Sgeo tries changing the font from Fixedsys to Dejavu Sans Mono
06:06:04 <Sgeo> I'm not sure if I actually like this
06:09:22 <zeotrope> Sgeo: tried inconsolata?
06:11:16 <Sgeo> If I remember, I'll try it tomorrow
06:28:12 <zzo38> Why does SDL require video in the main thread?
06:30:30 <zzo38> Is there some way to make it work in a separate thread?
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06:54:02 <fizzie> Most of those event-driven GUI systems also want you to only touch the GUI objects in the GUI thread.
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07:02:59 <zzo38> I want to do it in a separate thread so that it can emulate the DOS screen.
07:03:32 <pikhq> So, you want a framebuffer. Have the main thread blit it.
07:07:15 <zzo38> No. I want it that the main program can write to the array and then the video program will read it after every frame and redraw the tiles
07:07:38 <fizzie> Just do all SDL-related work in a single thread.
07:07:59 <fizzie> If it for some reason has to be the "main" one, do the "main program" work in some other one.
07:08:09 <pikhq> ... So you want a framebuffer written from one thread and read from a different one.
07:08:23 <pikhq> :P
07:09:01 <zzo38> And that if you write it not synchronized properly, it will even cause flashy stuff like as if you have like a QBASIC program: DO : LOCATE 1,1 : ? CHR$(219); : LOCATE 1,1 : ? CHR$(32); : LOOP
07:10:13 <fizzie> Well, don't add any mutexes or such in, then.
07:31:53 <zeotrope> zzo38: why did you choose to use square brackets to denote sets in hyper set language?
07:32:11 <zeotrope> conventionally curly brackets are used
07:33:31 <zzo38> zeotrope: Well, I just did. In esoteric programming it doesn't really matter though..... It can be designed to use whatever kind of brackets you want it to use, whether it is conventional or not.
07:43:26 <zzo38> Is this optimized? *p++=((charset[b*14+a]>>@4)<<7)+c;
07:43:32 <zzo38> Is it even correct?
07:44:12 <zzo38> I suppose there is still a problem, it does not deal with blinking text (as in CGA text mode)
07:46:09 <zeotrope> is that an @?
07:46:54 <zzo38> zeotrope: Yes there is a @ sign in there, the @ signs indicate Enhanced CWEB commands. @4 is the command for how many times this chunk has been used in the program before
07:47:43 <zeotrope> I thought I missed a C operator :)
07:49:04 <zzo38> zeotrope: You didn't miss a C operator. The at sign is not a C operator.
07:50:06 <zeotrope> ya, I got that, it's a CWEB feature
07:50:36 <zzo38> zeotrope: It is not a feature in normal CWEB, some features are specific to Enhanced CWEB only.
07:51:17 <zeotrope> I don't know much about CWEB except that it is knuth's literate C
07:52:54 <zzo38> Other @ commands include: @= is verbatim text, @ space is start new section, @* is start new section in table of contents, @^ is index entry, @3 is chunk parameter, @d is a C preprocessor macro automatically moved to the top, @i is include file, @m defines a metamacro, @- invokes a metamacro, @r is a make rule, @< is a chunk name, there are more
07:53:35 <zeotrope> seems useful
07:54:09 <zeotrope> especially the LaTeX support
07:54:19 <zzo38> The ones which are specific to Enhanced CWEB are: @r @m @- @) @3 @4 @$
07:54:41 <zzo38> zeotrope: Enhanced CWEB does not use LaTeX though, it uses Plain TeX only.
07:56:51 <zeotrope> how does it compare to tools that are language agnostic like noweb
07:57:50 <zzo38> Enhanced CWEB contains many specific features for C programming, so it is useful for C programming (it can also be used with C++).
07:58:03 <zzo38> I have written a language agnostic tool as well, though, called "yesweb".
07:58:33 <zzo38> (Have you used noweb?)
07:59:12 <zeotrope> no
07:59:53 <zzo38> Have you used yesweb?
07:59:55 <zeotrope> I'm probably going to try it (someday) though
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08:00:22 <zeotrope> nope, never used it either
08:00:42 <zeotrope> the only literate programming I've done was in literate haskell
08:00:44 <zzo38> I wrote yesweb entirely in TeX.
08:01:11 <zeotrope> link?
08:01:25 <zzo38> zeotrope: And Literate Haskell is sort of a fake kind of literate programming, in a way
08:01:44 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/WYAa (yesweb.tex)
08:02:31 <zzo38> As you might be able to see, it involves category codes a lot.
08:03:40 <zeotrope> suprisingly small and readable
08:04:38 <zzo38> The \catcode32=9\endlinechar=-1 allows you to write more readable programs in TeX.
08:04:52 <pikhq> zzo38: Literate Haskell is more something that *can be used* for literate programming.
08:05:02 <zzo38> Because that is the command to make whitespace insignificant.
08:05:34 <pikhq> Of course, you could just use it for something headache-inducing, like having two seperate programs in a single file, instead.
08:05:37 <zeotrope> I've always thought programming in TeX involved some sadism
08:05:54 <pikhq> zeotrope: Only minor amounts.
08:10:06 <zzo38> There are a few strangeness compared from other program language, because TeX is a typesetting system, but it can still be done, as you can see the codes.
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08:11:09 <zzo38> yesweb does both tangle and weave in the same time. If you run TeX with it, it will perform both operations.
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08:11:53 <zzo38> And people often say my programs are surprisingly small. So therefore it is not that much surprise......
08:15:41 <zeotrope> portability is a concern when using such tools
08:15:57 <zeotrope> I guess you could extract the source first
08:18:56 <zzo38> Enhanced CWEB consists of three programs, CTANGLE, CWEAVE, CSPIDER. (CSPIDER can be used instead of makefiles. It processes the same .w files as the other programs do, but ignores anything other than @r commands) (Except that @m @- @i are processed by the preprepreprocessor, which is common to all three programs.)
08:19:47 <zzo38> CWEAVE prints out lines with @r as verbatim text in a box, but with an integral sign at the left, so that you know it is a make rule instead of a C code.
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08:43:25 <zzo38> But metamacro codes are seem somewhat like TECO or Cthulhu.194
08:45:48 <zzo38> (Cthulhu.194 is IRC server script, in case you didn't know)
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08:51:41 <zeotrope> zzo38: could you please explain how this computes successors of a number: {#|[#]}
08:53:08 <zzo38> Yes. # is the number, so that means the set containing all elements of # and also # itself.
08:53:22 <zzo38> This is often how natural numbers are expressed using sets.
08:53:35 <zzo38> Is that explanation good enough?
08:53:48 <zeotrope> so, {#|[#]} 5 = {5,5} ?
08:54:34 <zzo38> Yes
08:54:47 <zzo38> No
08:54:55 <zeotrope> which is the multiset {{5} {5,2}}
08:54:58 <zzo38> That is not quite right
08:55:47 <zzo38> In set notation, it is 0={} 1={0} 2={0,1}={{},{{}}} 3={0,1,2}={{},{{}},{{},{{}}}} etc
08:56:14 <zzo38> I am sure there is some Wikipedia page explaining this way of representing natural numbers as sets.
08:56:37 <zeotrope> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Set-theoretic_definition_of_natural_numbers
08:57:01 <zzo38> Yes, that one.
08:57:02 <zeotrope> oh ok, so it is basically that definition
08:58:48 <zzo38> It is also described in section 6.2.1 of [[Natural number]]
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14:37:34 * alise finds a random reference to fizzie on the interwebs
14:39:54 <fizzie> Is it to fizzie fizzie or just any old fizzie?
14:40:18 <alise> Unless there's another Heikki Kallasjoki going around calling themselves "fizban" in the past, it's you.
14:40:47 <fizzie> I don't think there is, though you never know nowadays. Clones, you see.
14:40:50 <alise> nethack.ubiquitous.eu.org, in a list of NetHack servers; supposedly administrated by you.
14:40:58 <fizzie> Yes, I ran one for a while.
14:40:59 <alise> Dead, naturally.
14:41:27 <alise> fizzie: But ow, look how *ugly* the site is: http://www.nethack.de/
14:41:40 <alise> You should sue them for defamation by association with horrible web design.
14:41:52 <fizzie> I remember seeing it before; it is indeed remarkably ugly.
14:42:24 * alise concludes that he has no idea which server "NEU" is.
14:42:39 <fizzie> "You are visitor No. Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 41943040 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 67 bytes) in /home/rg40226web1/public_html/nethack.de/htdocs/counter.phtml on line 94 since the launch of www.nethack.de in September 1999"
14:42:43 <fizzie> That's an interesting number.
14:43:27 <alise> it's from the generalisation of the surreal numbers
14:43:36 <alise> it's hard to find something that /isn't/ a number there...
14:44:09 <fizzie> I don't know about NEU; but NAO had an EC2 instance in Europe, I'm not sure if it's still up.
14:44:31 <alise> Perhaps they meant that. Hmm.
14:44:43 <alise> Eh, what's wrong with just running NetHack locally and sending it to termcast in realtime?
14:44:58 <alise> It's just the same for everyone watching, unless you think I've managed to cheat and /still/ do that badly.
14:44:59 <fizzie> You don't get other people's bones. (Well, unless you run Hearse.)
14:45:15 <alise> Do I really care, though? :p
14:45:25 <fizzie> And there's the score tables, and they've got some useful patches pre-applied.
14:45:36 <alise> Yes, but, but, the LAG!
14:45:36 <fizzie> And permanent-ish logs of all the mistakes you make. :p
14:48:16 <fizzie> Heh, that's some hitpoints:
14:48:16 <fizzie> Milleria the Mage St:18 Dx:25 Co:16 In:25 Wi:25 Ch:18 Chaotic S:116620402
14:48:17 <fizzie> Astral Plane $:0 HP:1098643358(1098643358) Pw:454878184(454878184) AC:-121 Exp:30 T:591084
14:48:55 <alise> fizzie: did you see DeathOnAStick's ascension?
14:49:12 <alise> watching someone blow a magic whistle for about 30 minutes nonstop has never been so mind-numbingly bori^W^Wfun
14:49:16 <fizzie> No, but I sort-of followed the summary here.
14:49:31 <alise> giants hate picking up bags, it seems
14:55:55 <fizzie> For time-wasting fun, I sometimes read the bottom end of http://alt.org/nethack/topdeaths.html
14:56:36 <alise>   killed by a fire elemental of Chih Sung-tzu, while praying
14:56:57 <alise> haha: killed by a tiger, while vomiting
14:57:12 <fizzie> "killed by a hallucinogen-distorted hobbit, while unconscious from rotten food"
14:57:18 <fizzie> Very elaborate, sometimes.
14:57:33 <fizzie> Also: sounds like quite a party1
14:57:36 <fizzie> s/1/!/
14:58:20 <alise> I know you can tame Pestilence; what about the other three?
14:58:40 <alise> See, I'm just imagining someone ascending with the four horsemen of the apocalypse...
14:59:07 <fizzie> I'd guess the others are equally tamable.
14:59:16 <alise> Sweeeeeet
15:07:06 <fizzie> They all have the same level (30); I'm not sure what else would affect the resist() check there.
15:07:26 <fizzie> (Incidentally, the mail daemon demon is level 56.)
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15:13:29 <fizzie> Actually, I'm not sure if you can tame Death.
15:13:56 <fizzie> The magic resistance of all the riders means you can't tame them with magical means normally, except until after you've level-drained them enough. But Death is drain-resistant.
15:14:27 <alise> Hey, I got IBMgraphics in xterm.
15:15:17 <fizzie> I used to play with IBMgraphics through one of them filters, I don't recall what it was. There were some half-solutions that did walls and such right, but not completely everything.
15:15:24 <alise> I'm using konwert.
15:15:30 <alise> But, uh, I like DECgraphics perfectly well.
15:15:48 <alise> Interestingly, konwert doesn't break DECgraphics.
15:17:17 <fizzie> Oh, right, the rogue level with IBMgraphics on was problematic in some systems. I think konwert is what I used, too.
15:20:44 <alise> http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20071229043809/nethack/images/8/8d/Xterm-ibm-oracle.png
15:20:46 <alise> Yay halfintegrals
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15:36:59 <fizzie> "Famine and Pestilence can be tamed by draining some levels from them and then repeatedly casting charm monster. -- Death is immune to level drain, and hence cannot be tamed in this way." Aw.
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15:50:13 <fizzie> (There appears to be a Slash'EM workaround. And even in NetHack you can green-slime Death to get a tame "the green slime formerly known as Death" (maybe you could name it that), but it's still not the same.)
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15:59:22 <Flonk> g'day
16:09:23 <augur> mate
16:36:31 <Sgeo_> alise, you can't tame yourself!
16:36:37 <alise> eh?
16:36:57 <Sgeo_> <alise> I know you can tame Pestilence; what about the other three?
16:37:16 <alise> <fizzie> (There appears to be a Slash'EM workaround. And even in NetHack you can green-slime Death to get a tame "the green slime formerly known as Death" (maybe you could name it that), but it's still not the same.)
16:37:21 <alise> can you change that back into death?
16:37:37 <Sgeo_> You said other three, presumably riders
16:37:50 <alise> yes
16:37:51 <alise> and?
16:38:04 <fizzie> At that point in the game, you are War.
16:38:41 <fizzie> There's just Death, Famine and Pestilence you could tame. And apparently Death is a no go too.
16:39:06 <coppro> Famine and Pestilence can both be tamed
16:41:21 <alise> Sgeo_: what channel?
16:41:37 <alise> fizzie: you become war? awesome
16:41:47 <fizzie> Well, it's pretty implied.
16:41:58 <fizzie> But monst.c has a comment: /* Riders -- the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse ("War" == player) */
16:42:16 <alise> Sgeo_: termcast the game
16:42:53 <alise> Sgeo_: script -f >(echo 'hello Sgeo <any password>' | nc -q5 noway.ratry.ru 31337 >/dev/null)
16:42:57 <alise> Sgeo_: then just "nethack"
16:43:12 <alise> unless it's on NAO
16:43:26 <Sgeo_> I'm on NAO, but not this second
16:43:27 <Sgeo_> Hold on
16:43:46 <Sgeo_> Ok, I'm on NAO
16:43:48 <alise> connected
16:43:52 <alise> you're not very far in the game :P
16:43:58 <alise> even less far than me >_>
16:44:03 <alise> otoh you have more useful stuff
16:44:04 <alise> from the looks of it
16:44:13 <fizzie> The Slash'EM workaround for a tame Death seems to be to polyself into a "genetic engineer", which can hit people and cause a temporary polymorph ("undergo a freakish metamorphosis"); then you whack Death, tame the resulting critter, and it'll revert back to a tame Death.
16:44:28 <Sgeo_> v - a cursed rusty pearl ring named noncursed
16:44:33 <alise> fizzie: so ... can you tame green-slime death then polymorph him into death?
16:44:36 <alise> Sgeo_: lol
16:44:55 <Sgeo_> alise, it does make sense to call your soft gems soft
16:45:05 <Sgeo_> Sorry about that
16:45:09 <alise> ?
16:45:10 <fizzie> You can't polymorph things into Death, I don't think.
16:45:22 <alise> fizzie: bah
16:45:28 <Sgeo_> In case you pick up another gem, you'll instantly see whether it's soft
16:46:07 <Sgeo_> How'd that spellbook get blanked :(
16:46:12 * Sgeo_ growls
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16:47:36 <Sgeo_> alise, I'm scared of the throne room
16:47:47 <alise> Sgeo_: get a pet
16:47:51 <alise> go in there
16:47:53 <alise> conga line of death
16:47:54 <alise> easy
16:49:19 <alise> Sgeo_: or just go in there
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16:49:23 <alise> it's no biggie
16:49:26 <alise> you can easily flee
16:49:30 <alise> there's a staircase right next to it
16:50:06 <alise> don't go fully in mind, just let them see you
16:50:07 <alise> then tretreat out
16:50:11 <alise> *retreat
16:50:14 <alise> they'll follow, etc
16:50:16 <alise> *etc.
16:50:26 <alise> you can fight from there
16:50:58 <alise> Sgeo_: after killing the bugbear i'd retreat to get hp
16:51:02 <alise> oh come ON
16:51:06 <alise> you did not need to elbereth there
16:51:43 <alise> not going to 100.?
16:51:45 <Sgeo_> At least I have a nice door now
16:51:51 <alise> you're burdened, btw
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16:52:10 <alise> i suggest 100. for restoring hp :P
16:52:21 <Sgeo_> lol at hefty lichen corpse
16:52:40 <alise> lichen corpse that broke the adventurer's back
16:53:15 <alise> you're a coward :D
16:53:22 <alise> go up there and fight melee like a man
16:53:34 <Sgeo_> WTF am I killing/
16:53:36 <Sgeo_> lol
16:53:40 <alise> who knows, but stop it
16:53:48 <alise> it isn't helping :P
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16:54:14 <alise> call a spade a spade
16:54:18 <alise> call a murky potion momentary vision
16:54:42 <Sgeo_> Thanks Rodney-bot!
16:54:50 <alise> Sgeo_: 100., run in
16:54:52 <alise> problem solved
16:54:59 <alise> don't retreat to 100., that's what COWARDS do.
16:55:02 <alise> uh
16:55:04 <alise> HP,man
16:55:07 <alise> *HP, man
16:55:10 <alise> I'd 100. :P
16:55:20 <alise> okayyy
16:56:01 <Sgeo_> I just realized I don't need to be in the throne room
16:56:54 <alise> are you scared of melee or something :D
16:57:28 <Sgeo_> Yes!
16:57:32 <alise> now the idea would be to loot the box and sit on the throne ...
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16:57:42 <alise> hi ais523
16:58:01 <ais523> hi alise
16:58:10 <alise> ais523: I got on the /really/ bad side of the Minetown Watch with bad luck and somehow still survived.
16:58:20 <Sgeo_> Oooh, wand
16:58:40 <ais523> alise: impressive
16:58:49 <Sgeo_> alise, remind me that my gem collection is on entrance to sokoban?
16:58:53 <alise> Sgeo_: Okay.
16:59:08 <alise> ais523: One of my numerous pets started attacking a watchman, so I decided to help it. Bad idea. The whole watch starts chasing me, I fight them in vain, lose a few pets, flee upstairs. Ask #nethack. A plan is formed.
16:59:53 <Sgeo_> alise, crud you
16:59:57 <alise> ais523: After I restore my HP, I go back down, and sneak into the general store, taking quite a bit of damage from the watch while I'm at it. I try, numerous times, to steal something, failing each time and at one point digging out of the store. Finally, I manage to steal something, and escape the store.
17:00:22 <alise> ais523: I scramble to get back into the shop, running away from the Watch, and accidentally attack him. I try to pay; he wants blood, but he settles for my money, which I give him.
17:00:39 <alise> ais523: This pacifies the Watch completely. I spam Elbereth to defend myself from the nearby q, then wait five billion turns to get my HP back.
17:00:45 <alise> Only one of my pets survived.
17:00:46 <alise> THE END
17:00:49 <alise> Sgeo_: Eh!
17:00:54 <alise> Sgeo_: It can't be too bad, can it? :P
17:00:59 <alise> >.>
17:01:05 <Sgeo_> Thank Magicbane it wasn't!
17:01:16 <Sgeo_> Erm
17:01:26 <Sgeo_> Don't know if Magicbane blocked it, or was the target
17:01:28 <alise> ais523: tl;dr if the watch is angry because you killed one of them, steal a bunch of shit from a shop, destroy its walls, attack the shopkeeper, and then give him a bit of money; they'll like you again.
17:01:42 <alise> Sgeo_: Malignant aura, so presumably Magicbane is damaged.
17:01:46 <ais523> alise: did you figure that trick out for yourself? or find it in a spoiler?
17:01:46 <alise> >.> <.<
17:01:58 <alise> ais523: #nethack devised it as a plan, but there was a fair bit of improv from me
17:02:09 <ais523> and magicbane has a 95% resistance to curses when wielded
17:02:12 <Sgeo_> ais523, You feel a malignant aura surround the magic-absorbing blade.
17:02:22 <alise> #nethack said "steal from a shop then pay it back"; after that, it was basically trying various ways to steal
17:02:23 <ais523> that means it wasn't affected
17:02:25 <ais523> I think
17:02:33 * alise goes on termcast
17:02:54 <alise> right now I'm at level 10 (thanks, incubus), got rid of that cursed stuff, am a bit low on food, and stuff.
17:02:56 <alise> still in the mines
17:03:09 <alise> "a piece of food (corpse named Shaggy Dog)"
17:03:11 <alise> RIP, kitten
17:03:27 <alise> Oh yeah, I'm in a pit, trying to get my new pet dog, Moof, to follow me.
17:03:53 <alise> ok, moof, come on, it's just a pit
17:03:54 <alise> walk over it
17:04:12 <alise> ais523: /can/ dogs get over pits?
17:04:39 <ais523> I don't think so
17:04:46 <ais523> if you have a pickaxe handy, you can dig round it
17:05:01 <Sgeo_> Soko time!
17:05:05 <alise> i don't, i have a wand of digging though
17:05:06 <coppro> at this stage in the mines you should have a pickaxe, by the way
17:05:08 <alise> might that help?
17:05:12 <alise> coppro: noted; i don't
17:05:15 <alise> coppro: perhaps i'll find one
17:05:23 <Sgeo_> I can move diag in soko?
17:05:28 <coppro> no
17:05:31 <alise> Sgeo_: a fruit? you're /boring/
17:05:47 <coppro> err wait... maybe you can if you don't move round anything>?
17:05:58 <coppro> I forget
17:06:24 <alise> you can definitely move diagonally around enemies
17:06:36 <alise> ais523: can i dig around a pit with the wand of digging? I've never used it before
17:06:56 <ais523> alise: yes, if you're not in the pit at the time
17:07:05 <ais523> you only need to destroy one square orthogonally next to the pit
17:07:15 <alise> Moof is killed! You stop waiting.
17:07:17 <ais523> and then pets can walk round
17:07:17 <alise> never mind
17:07:22 <Sgeo_> I should engrave-test
17:07:53 <alise> wtf, that corpse is recent
17:07:54 <alise> oh, no it isn't
17:07:56 <alise> food poisoning
17:08:02 <alise> i prayed ... pretty recently to cure food poisoning
17:08:06 <alise> any suggestions? >_<
17:08:17 <alise> (stupid things dying where a corpse already is and leaving no corpse)
17:08:25 <coppro> unihorn?
17:09:13 <alise> alas, no.
17:09:17 <alise> my supplies are ... dismal
17:09:21 <alise> i'd get more, but it turns out minetown is shit.
17:09:27 <alise> the delicatessen had, like, three things in it!
17:09:33 <coppro> uh
17:09:41 <coppro> you're quite possibly screwed
17:09:53 <alise> coppro: nope
17:09:56 <alise> potions of full healing
17:10:03 <coppro> oh
17:10:06 <alise> how the hell do i have 3, anyway? they were just lying around!
17:10:07 <coppro> why don't you just drink one then
17:10:11 <alise> i forgot i had them
17:10:15 <coppro> that'll cure the poisoning
17:10:24 <alise> you don't say
17:10:27 <Sgeo_> I have two wands, both of which are one of make invis/teleport/cancel
17:11:01 <alise> coppro: is there likely to be a pickaxe lying around?
17:11:18 * alise notes that Wooble is onto the endgame
17:11:32 <alise> A bear trap closes on your foot!
17:12:03 <alise> a harp
17:12:44 <alise> is it safe to apply it now to see whether it's magic?
17:12:48 <alise> or does it not last long enough?
17:12:50 * Sgeo_ is getting better at vi keys
17:13:55 <coppro> so he is
17:14:08 <ais523> alise: magic harps have charges
17:14:24 <alise> enough?
17:14:32 <alise> Wooble feels mildly hot.
17:14:52 <alise> everyone's criticising his gameplay in #nethack :D
17:15:30 <alise> You start playing the harp. The harp twangs.
17:15:30 <alise> darn
17:15:39 <alise> ais523: should i worry about being burdened?
17:15:51 <ais523> alise: yes, it slows all your actions
17:15:54 <Sgeo_> Crud
17:16:00 <ais523> by 25%, IIRC
17:16:03 <Sgeo_> Drop some gems?
17:16:07 <ais523> that's quite a crippling penalty, if you think about it
17:16:39 <alise> ok then: **STASH on dlvl 8 mines, topleft corner
17:16:53 <alise> Sgeo_: do i /have/ gems?
17:17:03 <alise> ais523: what are rings good for?
17:17:06 <alise> i haven't used one once...
17:17:19 <ais523> alise: they give permanent and minor benefits (or penalties) while worn
17:17:28 <ais523> some are really dangerous, but most are moderately useful
17:17:42 <Sgeo_> Ah crap
17:18:00 <alise> ais523: the uncursed ones are all useful, right?
17:18:13 <ais523> even detrimental rings can be uncursed
17:18:18 <alise> hmm
17:18:18 <Sgeo_> Sometimes the dangerous ones are unpredictable
17:18:21 <alise> any way to ID them?
17:18:22 <ais523> but in that case, you can take them off again if you figure out they're dangerous
17:18:25 <ais523> scroll of ID
17:18:27 <Sgeo_> You won't know it's dangerous until it's too late though
17:18:29 <ais523> dropping duplicates down a sink
17:18:41 <ais523> price-ID can help to some extent, but I normally don't bother
17:19:10 <alise> ais523: is it worth just stashing all my rings?
17:19:15 <alise> I don't know what my scrolls are
17:19:20 <alise> and i'm not using any of the rings
17:19:21 <alise> *I'm
17:19:28 <ais523> stash rings if you aren't using them, yes
17:19:31 <ais523> try to price-ID identify
17:19:57 <alise> ok, so price ID them in minetown first?
17:20:00 <alise> or?
17:20:09 <alise> i don't think there's anywhere selling rings in minetown ...
17:21:10 <alise> or will the general store id them?
17:23:07 <alise> ?
17:25:16 <alise> dcss makes me dizzy
17:25:18 <Sgeo_> Dear golum
17:25:25 <Sgeo_> Get away from the boulder
17:25:29 <Sgeo_> I wanna force bolt you
17:25:39 <alise> just fight it dammit
17:26:01 <Sgeo_> ty
17:27:27 <Sgeo_> w00t
17:28:29 <alise> i like how it's so boring that it walks around for you
17:29:05 <Sgeo_> I should probably go eat food now
17:29:06 <Sgeo_> IRL
17:29:47 -!- nooga has joined.
17:30:43 <alise> ais523: so, can i price-id rings in minetown?
17:31:03 <ais523> if you find a shop that buys them, yes
17:31:06 <ais523> and it isn't angry
17:31:08 <ais523> general stores will work
17:31:26 <alise> ais523: amusingly, straight after that kerfuffle with the watch and the shop, the shk started liking me again
17:31:52 <alise> ais523: um ... can you connect to my termcast for a second?
17:31:53 <ais523> yep, it's a bug exploit
17:31:59 <alise> i'm very close to YASD
17:32:07 <alise> i should not have attacked it without looking it up
17:32:14 <ais523> ouch, leocrotta
17:32:19 <ais523> draw the best-quality Elbereth you can
17:32:24 <ais523> do you have a wand of fire handy?
17:32:28 <alise> ais523: i have a potion of full healing
17:32:33 <alise> that would be rather good to quaff with 3hp, right?
17:32:37 <coppro> or lightning
17:32:38 <alise> or will it get to attack me before i quaff it?
17:32:39 <ais523> yep, you'll last one turn agains it
17:32:41 <ais523> *against it
17:32:46 <ais523> and it's your turn now
17:32:49 <ais523> so the quaffing will be the next thing that happens
17:33:00 <alise> I'm lasting more than one turn
17:33:04 <ais523> heh, no longer burdened, so it can't hit you as quickly
17:33:06 <alise> *turn.
17:33:17 <ais523> you could probably kill it from there, actually
17:33:24 <alise> i have a magic missile :P
17:33:29 <alise> and COLD
17:33:43 <alise> ooh
17:33:44 <alise> teleportation
17:33:49 <alise> that would be rather clever, right?
17:33:54 <alise> or should i save it?
17:35:05 <Sgeo_> What did alise attack?
17:35:14 <alise> leocrotta
17:35:23 <alise> ais523: so, what should I do?
17:35:28 <alise> are any of my wands useful?
17:35:56 <Sgeo_> There is a wiki page
17:36:02 <Sgeo_> Cold and teleport may both be useful
17:36:07 <Sgeo_> According to wiki
17:36:16 <ais523> the leocrotta isn't /that/ dangerous
17:36:22 <alise> ais523: erm, i was almost full health
17:36:23 <alise> I hit it thrice
17:36:23 <ais523> especially as you're on high HP
17:36:26 <alise> I was down to 3hp
17:36:26 <ais523> ah
17:36:31 <alise> well, maybe four times
17:36:33 <alise> or five, but point is
17:36:36 <alise> yeah, it is dangerous to me
17:36:43 <ais523> I'm not sure attack wands will hurt it more than just melee combat
17:36:43 <alise> and look at the armour i have
17:36:44 <alise> and excalibur
17:36:48 <alise> So Yeah.
17:37:03 <alise> ais523: ok, how's this idea: teleport a little way from it, zap it with my wand of magic thingy or cold
17:37:09 <ais523> teleport isn't controlled
17:37:09 <alise> ah, cold
17:37:11 <alise> appears to be effective
17:37:11 <ais523> you land somewhere at random
17:37:14 <alise> ais523: ah
17:37:19 <alise> ok, teleport, go close to it, zap it with cold
17:37:23 <alise> or should i zap it with cold now, then flee?
17:37:23 <ais523> unless you have a ring of teleport control
17:37:29 <ais523> I'd say zap first
17:37:49 <alise> that was easy
17:37:54 <ais523> yep, it was injured from your attacks before
17:37:57 <ais523> probably only had a few hp left
17:37:58 <alise> tasty corpse?
17:38:02 <ais523> edible
17:38:11 <ais523> they don't give any resistances or anything like that
17:38:27 <alise> fuck!
17:38:28 <alise> cockatrice
17:38:30 <alise> ewll
17:38:30 <alise> well
17:38:31 <alise> chickatrice
17:38:38 <alise> what do i have to do, avoid it?
17:38:42 <alise> i've forgotten
17:38:49 <Sgeo_> Do you have a dead lizard?
17:38:56 <Sgeo_> Like I keep reminding you about?
17:38:56 <alise> no.#
17:38:58 <alise> *no.
17:38:59 <alise> Sgeo_: look
17:39:04 <alise> if there were ANY DAMN LIZARDS around
17:39:06 -!- cal153 has joined.
17:39:07 <alise> I would kill one and keep its corpse
17:39:09 <alise> but there aren't/.
17:39:11 <alise> *aren't.
17:39:13 <Sgeo_> alise, there was one, but you ate it
17:39:18 <alise> that was before you said that
17:39:43 <coppro> you can kill it from a distance
17:39:49 <alise> coppro: will it try and walk up to me
17:39:50 <alise> ?
17:39:58 <coppro> of course
17:40:05 <alise> c
17:40:05 <alise> .
17:40:06 <alise> .@
17:40:07 <coppro> you can E it or something
17:40:07 <alise> erm
17:40:08 <alise> c
17:40:09 <alise> .-
17:40:10 <alise> .@
17:40:17 <alise> coppro: you mean elbereth?
17:40:18 <alise> good idea
17:40:34 <coppro> yes
17:41:06 <alise> it isn't leaving
17:41:12 <coppro> don't engrave multiple at once
17:41:15 <alise> can i hit it with a lance if it's right next to me? is that safe?
17:41:17 <alise> coppro: I'm not
17:41:18 <coppro> just keep engraving one at a time
17:41:23 <coppro> hitting it is safe
17:41:37 <coppro> it's that it has a small chance when attacking you of inducing stoning
17:41:41 <alise> even if it's at distance zero?
17:41:45 <Sgeo_> It keeps looking like I screwed up Sokoban, but I don't think I have
17:41:58 <coppro> alise: you're fine
17:42:03 <coppro> just don't touch the corpse
17:42:21 <Sgeo_> There's MORE of them!
17:42:46 <coppro> also do you have a potion of acid?
17:42:57 <alise> coppro: nope -- "Too close!" says the lance
17:43:01 <alise> i have potions, i don't think any are acid
17:43:09 <alise> i have full healing
17:43:13 <alise> will that save me from stoning?
17:43:30 <Sgeo_> Doing Soko without spoilers is fun!
17:43:39 <coppro> alise: you can just attack rather than apply the lance
17:43:55 <coppro> and no, full ehealing wont' save you
17:43:58 <alise> attack with lance, or will excalibur be ok too?
17:44:07 <alise> phew, it's fleeing
17:44:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
17:44:38 <Phantom_Hoover> I wonder if that crappy Battleships program can support the SMBC strategy.
17:44:48 <coppro> any weapon
17:44:54 <coppro> so long as you don't attack barehanded
17:45:02 <Phantom_Hoover> MORE NETHACK?
17:45:31 <alise> ais523: there's three chickatrices very close together; how unlucky am I?!
17:45:32 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: yes
17:45:38 <alise> also -- does praying cure stoning?
17:45:39 <ais523> alise: not very, they come in packs
17:45:41 <ais523> and yes
17:45:47 <alise> ok
17:45:49 <alise> time to move
17:45:50 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit).
17:45:53 <alise> The chickatrice misses. The chickatrice touches you!
17:45:55 <alise> AIEEE
17:45:56 <alise> ELBERETH
17:45:59 <coppro> you're fine
17:46:01 <coppro> it didn't hiss
17:46:06 <alise> I know, I know, but STILL.
17:46:08 <Sgeo_> Crap
17:46:22 <Sgeo_> Broke some nymph's mirror
17:46:26 * Sgeo_ facepalms
17:46:33 <Sgeo_> Well, at least I'm not in mortal stony danger
17:46:35 <coppro> even hissing, you still have a 9/10 chance of survivin
17:46:51 <Sgeo_> Unless it's the new moon, iirc?
17:47:07 <alise> OMG MORE COCKATRI
17:47:59 <alise> coppro: is it safe just to run, then?
17:48:28 <Sgeo_> Note to self: Please don't die because I haven't been paying attention to nutrition
17:48:39 <coppro> alise: yes
17:50:09 <alise> chickatrice corpses are bad, right?
17:50:11 <alise> reaaally bad
17:50:18 <coppro> depends
17:50:23 <coppro> if you have gloves, they make a powerful weapon
17:50:32 <alise> i don't
17:50:32 <coppro> therwise, stay away
17:50:34 <alise> ok, back to minetown
17:50:35 <Sgeo_> If you don't, RIP Felix... erm, Alise
17:50:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
17:51:09 <alise> not /another/ incubus!
17:51:10 -!- augur has joined.
17:51:13 <coppro> it's safe to walk over them if you are not blind btw
17:51:15 <alise> how much stamina does it think i have?
17:51:35 <Sgeo_> Sex and cockatrices don't mix
17:51:44 <alise> >_< I'm trying to kill you! That is not how to interpret my whacks!
17:51:46 <Sgeo_> ALthough you're not weilding a c, so I guess it's ok
17:51:49 <alise> Rapist
17:52:01 <alise> You can't just steal my money! Sheesh
17:52:30 <alise> You read: "E|berethElbe???hFl|e et?E||?rethLlber? hEl e?cth|l?ercth_lbcre
17:52:30 <alise> wElber th??|KrethE|berctc[l|c?WthElberc?h|?bcr?tnE berc?rE?|e etnEl5?r?th?
17:52:30 <alise> |?rc?hE|| ret".--More--
17:52:39 <alise> ais523: ^ from the Great q Avoidance of Post-Whenever I Pacified the Guard
17:52:52 <ais523> heh
17:53:00 <alise> so once I get a ring's price, how can I ID it based on that?
17:53:16 <Sgeo_> Clippy!
17:53:31 <Sgeo_> http://nethack.roy.org/clippy/clippy.pl
17:53:38 <Sgeo_> Um, might be a bit old
17:53:44 <Sgeo_> Don't know if it's 3.4.3 or not
17:54:09 <coppro> I just use the wikihack page
17:54:24 <alise> Even Sgeo_ can't endorse his very own wiki on matters of rings!
17:54:31 <alise> charisma? /dumb
17:54:43 <alise> oh i have that don't i
17:54:45 <alise> 7 of them
17:54:51 <alise> type, do i put in "ring" here?
17:54:52 <alise> or the colour too?
17:54:58 <Sgeo_> I think just =
17:55:35 <alise> [ynaq]
17:55:37 * alise wonders what a is
17:55:40 <alise> or q
17:55:42 <ais523> all
17:55:48 <ais523> and q = quit, or cancel
17:55:55 <ais523> so it's basically just "yes to all", "no to all"
17:56:49 <alise> http://nethack.roy.org/clippy/clippy.pl?charisma=7&type==&price=50&desc=&price_type=sell
17:56:52 <alise> that's not terribly specific ...
17:57:04 <alise> oh, the types
17:57:06 <alise> wtf?
17:57:09 <alise> apparently my ring doesn't exist
17:57:10 <alise> it's moonstone
17:57:26 <Sgeo_> descriptions are randomized
17:57:31 <Sgeo_> Don't base it off of that
17:57:58 <alise> so if it says *x and it IS x,
17:58:02 <alise> does that mean it's definitely that one?
17:58:18 <Sgeo_> No
17:58:33 <Sgeo_> It shouldn't even bother saying *x
17:58:57 -!- Gregor-P has joined.
17:58:57 <alise> ais523: wow, that IDing was utterly useless
17:59:04 <alise> there were like 10 possibilities for each price
17:59:09 <ais523> that's standard
17:59:10 <alise> I'm just stashing all of these
17:59:20 <alise> WHAT
17:59:22 <ais523> you can check through the possibilities to see if there's anything dangerous, though
17:59:22 <alise> The incubus is back for mre
17:59:23 <alise> *more
17:59:24 <ais523> and wear the ring if not
17:59:27 <alise> How horny can he be?!
17:59:30 <alise> This is the ... fourth time, I think
18:00:10 <Sgeo_> Dear Mr. h: Fuck off
18:00:32 <alise> "your senses are dulled;" wisdom reduces by 1 and is abused.
18:00:33 <alise> **sigh**
18:00:51 <alise> ais523: Is there an easy way to stop a foocobus?
18:01:00 <alise> omg, a wraith!
18:01:03 <ais523> kill it first
18:01:11 <alise> it started undressing me as soon as i walked into it.
18:01:21 <alise> dammit
18:01:22 <Sgeo_> How do I kill this h?
18:01:26 <alise> the wraith didn't leave a corpse
18:01:27 <alise> barrow wright
18:01:34 <Sgeo_> Walk into main dungeon and pick up a few rocks to throw?
18:01:45 <alise> ais523: You stop waiting. You feel very attracted to the incubus.--More--
18:01:47 <alise> ais523: see?
18:02:05 <ais523> well, you want it to be /your/ turn when it gets next to you
18:02:10 <ais523> so you wait when it's two squares away
18:02:38 <alise> i was waiting without knowing there was another incubus coming
18:02:45 <alise> You feel drained of energy.--More--
18:02:49 <alise> FUCKING FUCKSHIT
18:02:54 <alise> i hate incubi.
18:03:18 <alise> are succubi this pesky? :p
18:03:26 <ais523> depends on gender
18:03:33 <alise> **NOTE TO SELF: No stash in that level of the mines, I lied; it's on minetown. Rings. =, you know.
18:03:37 <alise> ais523: i mean for males
18:03:50 <ais523> yes
18:04:13 <alise> I find it weird that the watch doesn't care if you kill innocents.
18:04:22 <alise> but wants to murder you if you so much as steal one thing from a shop.
18:04:25 <alise> *want
18:04:47 <alise> ha, I just got $745 from the incubus
18:04:49 <alise> take that
18:05:19 <alise> ais523: how useful are lamps etc.?
18:05:29 <ais523> alise: they're useful early in the mines
18:05:35 <ais523> and also in the very late game
18:05:39 <ais523> most of the time, you don't care
18:06:19 <alise> is dlvl 7 early in the mines?
18:06:31 <Sgeo_> Candles are useful late in the game
18:06:43 <Sgeo_> Erm, and by useful, I mean you literally can't win without them
18:06:45 <alise> also, why is the delicatessen so pathetic in this minetown?
18:06:54 <alise> three wide, two high
18:06:58 <ais523> delis are always pathetic
18:07:02 <alise> one of the items is a fortune cookie
18:07:05 <alise> and the other is tin
18:07:10 <alise> ais523: anywhere better to stock up on food around here?
18:07:19 <alise> Sgeo_: right, but there's no point buying a candle at this point, yeah?
18:07:29 <ais523> in the mines? deathdrops is the real main point
18:07:35 <ais523> alise: you are aware that you need 7 candles in order to win?
18:07:40 <ais523> that won't come up until much later, though
18:07:59 <alise> ais523: well, I'm aware now
18:08:07 <alise> but i don't need to buy them now, right?
18:08:10 <alise> there'll be lighting shops later?
18:08:12 <ais523> no, you can leave them for later
18:08:18 <ais523> but there's only one lighting shop in the whole game
18:08:32 <ais523> the shopkeeper, Izchak, is named after one of the original developers, who died of cancer
18:09:30 <alise> Um, good to know, I guess?
18:09:35 <alise> RIP and all that
18:10:50 <alise> ais523: I guess I'll buy them now and stash.
18:10:53 <alise> So, candles matter, not lamps, right?
18:10:55 <alise> I can handle darkly-lit mines.
18:11:04 <ais523> that's it, it's just the candles that matter
18:11:32 <ais523> (there are only 11 items absolutely necessary in order to win: 7 of them are candles)
18:12:14 <Warrigal> Gregor-P: mind going in #sxmc and explaining what HackuckOO is all about?
18:12:53 -!- Gregor-W has joined.
18:12:57 <alise> ais523: what are the others?
18:13:06 <alise> also, what happens if those seven candles are somehow lost?
18:13:14 <ais523> you can always wish for more in an emergency
18:13:17 <ais523> or pudding-farm
18:13:24 <ais523> they generate randomly, but rarely
18:13:56 <ais523> and the others: silver bell/Bell of Opening; Candelabrum of Invocation (to which you need to attach the candles); papyrus book/Book of the Dead
18:14:03 <ais523> and the Amulet of Yendor, ofc
18:14:41 <alise> so is it safe to stash
18:14:43 <alise> ?
18:14:54 <ais523> yep, should be
18:15:03 <ais523> but they're pretty light; normally, I just put them in my bag
18:15:03 <alise> now i need to find a pet
18:15:08 <alise> ais523: I don't have a bag
18:15:11 <alise> unfortunately.
18:15:13 <ais523> ugh
18:15:51 <alise> where can i obtain one?
18:16:01 <Sgeo_> Can I tame all d?
18:16:05 <Sgeo_> Particularly foxes?
18:16:14 <ais523> Sgeo_: no, just dogs
18:16:23 <Sgeo_> RIP fox
18:16:24 <ais523> alise: Minetown's a common place, or elsewhere in the mines
18:16:30 <ais523> but you have to stumble across them by chance
18:16:52 <Sgeo_> Should I attempt to kill a unicorn at some point?
18:16:55 <alise> a wand of magic missile that an orc used, funfun
18:16:55 <Sgeo_> I don't know how?
18:16:59 <alise> Sgeo_: whack it
18:17:12 <Sgeo_> I once died to a unicorn
18:17:17 <alise> well, don't again.
18:17:23 <alise> ais523: there isn't one in minetown, alas
18:17:41 <alise> ais523: i'm scared to head down; there's cockachicks there
18:18:43 <Sgeo_> ais523, any advice on unicorn killing?
18:18:56 <ais523> Sgeo_: being faster than the unicorn helps
18:19:01 <ais523> also, beartraps will hold them in place
18:19:07 <ais523> or alternatively, move to a no-tele level
18:19:12 <ais523> if it's winning, run; the unicorn will run too
18:19:30 <Sgeo_> I don't think I'm faster, but I am on no-tele
18:19:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:19:40 <alise> I just wacked it in melee and killed it easily ...
18:19:43 -!- augur has joined.
18:19:55 <ais523> Sgeo_: killing unicorns is good, for the horn
18:19:59 <ais523> but they hit really hard
18:20:03 <alise> They do?
18:20:05 <Sgeo_> I have 63hp
18:20:09 <ais523> alise: yep
18:20:37 <alise> 28. In Genesis 1:6-8, we are told that one of God's first creations was a firmament in the heavens. This likely refers to the creation of the luminiferous aether.
18:20:43 <alise> --Conservapedia, "Counterexamples to Relativity".
18:20:56 <alise> Maximum batshit-craziness level attained.
18:21:19 <Gregor-W> Bahahahaha
18:21:30 <Sgeo_> ais523, should I attack given my low-HPness/
18:21:37 <alise> Sgeo_: no
18:21:43 -!- ais523 has left (?).
18:21:59 <Sgeo_> :(
18:22:02 <alise> ais considered your question so boring he left
18:22:04 <alise> :P
18:22:06 <alise> or, it was my quote
18:22:15 <alise> Minkowski space is predicated on the idea of four-dimensional vectors of which one component is time. However, one of the properties of a vector space is that every vector have an inverse. Time cannot be a vector because it has no inverse.
18:22:16 <alise> ... what?
18:23:01 <Sgeo_> ....how did I successfully write Elbereth while blind?
18:23:18 <alise> you can use your finger while blind ...
18:28:47 <Vorpal> <ais523> Sgeo_: killing unicorns is good, for the horn <-- 1) only non-aligned ones 2) they are hard to reach, considering their movement pattern
18:36:46 * alise remembers RDF, a twinge of pain
18:37:00 <alise> Ouch!
18:38:39 <alise> Remembering things can be bad for you/
18:38:41 <alise> *you.
18:40:53 * alise attempts to remember N3, too, as an analgesic, but this doesn't really work
18:41:02 <alise> *work.
18:45:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:45:34 <Phantom_Hoover> Incidentally, I had an idea to force IO scheduling in Lazy K.
18:45:36 <alise> glarikord
18:46:50 <Phantom_Hoover> An IO action returns the IO it has consumed in a separate list, and bind conses the output of the next action onto this, then pares the resultant list down.
18:48:09 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, the interpreter might be clever enough to work out that the input isn't actually being evaluated.
18:48:24 -!- cpressey has joined.
18:48:47 <alise> Hi cpressey.
18:49:05 <cpressey> hi alise
18:49:05 <Phantom_Hoover> .yesserpc iH
18:49:17 <alise> Yesser PC.
18:49:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it only me who thinks that names that start with a dot look nice?
18:50:09 <alise> You'd like .theprodukkt, and Lojban.
18:50:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Yes, probably.
18:51:08 <Phantom_Hoover> What does the dot in Lojban signify, anyway?
18:51:24 <alise> New syllable, or something; I forget.
18:51:28 <alise> ' is pronounced h, I know that much.
18:51:42 <alise> .mi'e .eliat,xyrd. ;; or something
18:52:05 <alise> Warrigal: here, fix that ^
18:52:07 <alise> :p
18:52:25 <Sgeo_> Means pause
18:52:32 <Sgeo_> Required in some situations
18:52:55 <Warrigal> alise: yep, that's a valid sentence.
18:53:07 <alise> wareya: but is ".eliat,xyrd." the most accurate rendering of my name?
18:53:12 <Warrigal> Oh.
18:53:18 <alise> .eliat,xrd. was decided on ages ago, but iirc #lojban reconsidered
18:53:20 <alise> and a y snuck in somewhere
18:53:42 <Warrigal> I'd go with .Eli,yt.xrd.
18:54:06 <alise> Warrigal: Wait ... ' is pronounced h... would abusing that be Totally Evil?
18:54:18 <alise> .Eli,yt.'rd.
18:54:23 <Warrigal> Yes. It can only go between two vowels.
18:54:33 <alise> i defy that convention
18:54:35 <alise> :D
18:54:43 <alise> What's that? LOJBAN is evolving!
18:54:55 <cpressey> I defy all conventions of Lojban, a.k.a. not going anywhere near it
18:55:03 <alise> ... I've forgotten what a Pokemon evolution looks like.
18:55:15 <Warrigal> I guess .Eli,yt.xyd. is what you want if you pronounce the R in "Hird" non-R-ly.
18:55:50 <alise> i guess it's a bit like Hiid
18:55:52 <alise> Herd
18:55:55 <alise> It's pronounced exactly like herd.
18:56:03 <alise> Does that help? :P
18:56:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Except non-rhotically, and with a Northern accent.
18:56:27 <cpressey> Huud.
18:56:33 <alise> I meant to say Huud, yeah
18:56:33 <alise> not hiid
18:56:41 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Mind, I don't really have a northern accent ...
18:57:05 <Phantom_Hoover> So no alterations of 'u'-related sounds?
18:57:11 <alise> Well, god knows.
18:57:22 <alise> coppro: is there something i can do to protect myself against cockafoos?
18:58:21 <Sgeo_> Going to watch some SGU now
18:58:33 <Phantom_Hoover> Bah, you TV SF people.
18:58:41 <Phantom_Hoover> I laugh at you.
18:58:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Hahaha.
18:58:49 <alise> Random challenge: Find a way to represent a rational with dynamically-sized numerator and denominator in 64-bit binary that gives the best range; i.e. largest/smallest integer but also smallest rational.
18:59:04 <alise> Preferably not one with bizarre discontinuities like floats; i.e. actual rationals.
18:59:17 <alise> I guess that isn't a very well-defined challenge.
18:59:51 <Phantom_Hoover> How can you implement actual rationals in fixed-size storage?
19:00:01 <cpressey> I think there are undecidable questions about reflective (reflexive?) formulations of automata, even ones with finite storage.
19:00:03 <Sgeo_> How could you not?
19:00:05 <Phantom_Hoover> You obviously have a step size.
19:00:09 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: No...
19:00:17 <alise> Okay, consider this (very bad) representation:
19:00:22 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: Er - pait of integers?
19:00:24 <cpressey> *pair
19:00:33 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:00:43 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey, the pairs are bounded in *some* way.
19:00:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: 1*01*
19:01:03 <alise> 1110 is 3/1
19:01:05 <Sgeo_> Doesn't mean that the difference between two representable rationals is consistent throughout the range
19:01:06 <alise> 0111 is 1/3
19:01:08 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: only by the architecture, which you are abstracting away, right?
19:01:09 <alise> 11011 is 2/2 = 1
19:01:14 <alise> 111011 is 3/2
19:01:15 <alise> etc
19:01:22 <alise> the challenge is, of course, to do this much more efficiently.
19:01:29 -!- wareya has joined.
19:01:32 <alise> cpressey: I /did/ specify 64-bits.
19:02:15 <cpressey> alise: Then I'm not sure what Phantom_Hoover means by "actual".
19:02:24 <alise> cpressey: Because zomg Q is countably infinite.
19:02:26 <coppro> alise: hi AC and lizards
19:02:28 <alise> How can you represent that in finite space.
19:02:30 <alise> coppro: wat
19:02:32 <coppro> *high
19:02:35 <alise> ah
19:02:37 <coppro> err
19:02:37 <alise> whoa, i have ac 10
19:02:38 <coppro> low AC
19:02:41 <alise> how did that happen?
19:02:42 <coppro> 10 is default
19:02:45 <coppro> low is good
19:02:51 <alise> i had like 3 before
19:02:57 <coppro> you took your armor off?
19:03:00 <Sgeo_> Put your clothes back on, alise!
19:03:00 <alise> omg
19:03:02 <alise> how did that happen
19:03:04 <alise> it's the incubus
19:03:09 <coppro> lol
19:03:10 <alise> i am walking around naked
19:03:11 <Sgeo_> No one wants to see you naked after you had sex with that prostitute!
19:03:20 <alise> not technically a prostitute!
19:03:21 <alise> just a rapist-theif
19:03:23 <alise> *thief
19:03:47 <olsner> ooh, are we talking about rape?
19:03:52 <Warrigal> alise: well, I thought of a funny method. The lowest and highest integers it can represent are -63 and 63. The closest-to-0 fractions it can represent are 1/63 and -1/63. The highest-denominator fractions it can represent are 6557470319842/10610209857723 and -6557470319842/10610209857723.
19:03:56 <alise> olsner: What a delightful subject!
19:04:08 <alise> Warrigal: That's ... that's really shit.
19:04:20 <alise> >_>
19:04:21 <Warrigal> Yup.
19:04:31 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> How can you implement actual rationals in fixed-size storage? <-- by limiting the possible range
19:04:34 <alise> coppro: AC 2; is that good enough?
19:04:36 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, how about use one of those neat bijections we thought up?
19:04:45 <Vorpal> (okay that was extremely unhelpful I know)
19:04:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Those are useless; and they're not exactly "neat", they're very standard.
19:04:49 <Sgeo_> My AC is crap
19:04:55 <Warrigal> alise: okay, then. Let me introduce you to a fancy technique known as the IEEE floating-point number.
19:05:01 <alise> coppro: I wish there were lizards around here to steal the corpses of.
19:05:02 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, try an UPS then?
19:05:08 <alise> Warrigal: Those have discontinuities, though.
19:05:10 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, they tend to counteract spikes and such
19:05:10 <alise> Warrigal: Such as no 1/3.
19:05:22 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, wrong kind of AC
19:05:24 <Warrigal> alise: so, you want to be able to represent small fractions exactly?
19:05:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Or 1/10, actually.
19:05:30 <alise> Warrigal: Instead of limited-but-flexible-range-on-each-side rationals, they're approximations-to-rationals.
19:05:32 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, oh right. air condition?
19:05:37 <alise> Warrigal: Can you grok the former's difference?
19:05:41 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, split into 2 32-bit ints, one signed?
19:05:48 <Sgeo_> Wrong kind of AC
19:05:48 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, so is mine, it consists of a tabletop fan
19:05:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: As I said, that's not flexible range.
19:05:54 <alise> That's fixed range on each side.
19:06:06 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, alternating current, air condition? I don't know any other meanings of AC
19:06:14 <Sgeo_> Armor Class
19:06:17 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, you have a fixed range regardless.
19:06:17 <Vorpal> oh
19:06:21 <Sgeo_> (I think)
19:06:25 <Warrigal> alise: let me think what you're referring to.
19:06:26 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, you are playing D&D or nethack?
19:06:26 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: Yes, I know that.
19:06:30 <Sgeo_> NetHack
19:06:33 <Vorpal> ah
19:06:38 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, OK, so what's your problem?
19:06:39 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, well in that context I know of it
19:06:45 <alise> Warrigal: Okay, basically, consider two 32-bit integers, one numerator, one denominator.
19:06:54 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, lets see.. in nethack it means you have a high value?
19:06:56 <alise> Warrigal: Now imagine if you could make it a 31-bit numerator and a 33-bit denominator, and so on.
19:06:59 <Vorpal> since they count down iirc
19:07:03 <Sgeo_> Yes
19:07:03 <Sgeo_> 10
19:07:05 <alise> Warrigal: Now make this actually work (you can't just "make" that happen since there's no way to tell which is which).
19:07:13 <alise> It is, of course, okay if you can't actually get 32/32.
19:07:15 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, what is the base AC now again?
19:07:28 <Sgeo_> I _think_ 10 without protection
19:07:32 <Vorpal> ah
19:07:44 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, put on some armor?
19:07:50 <Sgeo_> I'm a wizard
19:07:53 <Warrigal> So have six bits at the beginning telling you where the break is.
19:08:17 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, oh
19:08:19 <alise> Warrigal: Okay; that's quite good. But arithmetic on that would suck.
19:08:20 <cpressey> Statically determine the number of bits for each num and denom in the program. HA!
19:08:52 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, why not just use two bignums?
19:09:08 <Warrigal> alise: isn't arithmetic on rational numbers supposed to suck?
19:09:15 <Sgeo_> Because theoretical stuff is interesting?
19:09:19 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, then it is only limited by your computers memory
19:09:20 <alise> Warrigal: Well, the idea of this is...
19:09:23 <Warrigal> alise: think of an efficient way to do 5/8 + 11/13.
19:09:40 <alise> Warrigal: I mean, your method is significantly less efficient than /regular/ rational arithmetic.
19:09:52 <Warrigal> How so?
19:10:02 <alise> You have to futz with the break-bit.
19:10:05 <alise> I guess.
19:10:22 <Warrigal> And you consider that significant?
19:10:34 <Sgeo_> My dog's name is Sokodog
19:11:05 <Sgeo_> Anyways, off to SGU
19:11:19 <Warrigal> Sgeo University?
19:11:22 <alise> Sgeo_: lizard corpse
19:11:26 <alise> Warrigal: stargate universe
19:11:33 <Sgeo_> alise, w00t!
19:11:33 <Warrigal> Mm.
19:11:52 <alise> Warrigal: You should totally watch me flail around in NetHack.
19:12:16 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
19:12:30 <Warrigal> alise: do you call wareya Warrigal?
19:12:54 <Vorpal> alise, playing on NAO?
19:12:57 <Vorpal> alise, if so, we can
19:13:15 <alise> telnet termcast.org
19:13:25 <alise> NAO is way too high-latency from here
19:13:28 <alise> so i play locally and termcast instead.
19:13:36 <alise> Warrigal: wareya doesn't really talk; why?
19:13:41 <Vorpal> alise, eh Satiated
19:13:41 * Warrigal nods.
19:13:43 <Warrigal> Just wondering.
19:13:44 <Vorpal> alise, that's bad
19:13:55 <alise> Vorpal: Yeah, I just got Satiated.
19:13:56 <Vorpal> <alise> NAO is way too high-latency from here <-- same
19:13:58 <alise> It should wear off soon.
19:14:02 <alise> Hmm, a bag.
19:14:04 <Vorpal> alise, hopefully
19:14:05 <Warrigal> I eat until satiated every so often. What's bad about it?
19:14:06 <alise> It might be a bag of holding!
19:14:10 <alise> I hope it's a bag of holding.
19:14:14 <alise> Warrigal: eating can be dangeorus ... that's about it
19:14:14 <Vorpal> alise, don't put unknown wands in it
19:14:21 * Warrigal nods.
19:14:31 <Warrigal> And don't put unknown bags in it.
19:14:31 <Vorpal> alise, no
19:14:36 <Vorpal> it abuses your str
19:14:36 <Warrigal> Also, don't put wands of cancellation in it.
19:14:36 <Vorpal> iirc
19:14:44 <alise> Vorpal: hm, ok
19:14:48 <alise> *okay
19:14:51 <Vorpal> alise, and what Warrigal said
19:15:01 <Warrigal> And don't put bags of holding in it.
19:15:24 <Vorpal> alise, don't put wands of cancellation or boh or unknown wands or unknown bags in a boh or unknown bag
19:15:45 <Vorpal> alise, dammit? why?
19:15:57 <alise> Vorpal: cause now i have to go back down
19:16:01 <alise> and there were chickatrices on this level before
19:16:26 <fizzie> Vorpal, (I guess alise too); it's dexterity that is abused once for every 10 turns if you're satiated. (Also wisdom if you are a monk, too; I guess monks are supposed to be the ascetic sort.)
19:16:45 <Vorpal> alise, uh uh
19:16:56 <Vorpal> fizzie, right
19:17:30 <Vorpal> alise, bad thing with this compared to NAO is that I can't send you mail
19:18:31 <Vorpal> alise, you stalled?
19:18:31 <Sgeo_> Nice thing about NAO now: #name and C now both give you the same prompt: Whether to call a class of objects, individual object, or monster
19:18:36 -!- alise has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:18:48 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, how is that good?
19:18:51 -!- alise has joined.
19:18:52 <alise> F U C K
19:19:04 <Sgeo_> :(
19:19:06 <alise> I forgot to plug the laptop in to charge
19:19:11 <alise> it turned off when it ran out of battery
19:19:13 <alise> the save file?
19:19:13 <alise> GONE
19:19:15 <Sgeo_> There may be a recover th... Oh wow
19:19:15 <alise> fucking GONE
19:19:16 <alise> FUCK YOU NETHACK
19:19:18 <Vorpal> alise, no
19:19:23 <Vorpal> alise, it wasn't
19:19:26 <alise> Vorpal: i started nethack and it asked if it wanted to pick etc.
19:19:27 <Vorpal> alise, it is now
19:19:33 <Vorpal> alise, it wasn't before you started it
19:19:38 <Vorpal> you could have used nethack-recover
19:19:41 <alise> well gee, thanks for telling me in the past
19:19:43 <Vorpal> alise, now? probably too late
19:19:47 <alise> i didn't realise nethack had a punish_person_whose_battery_is_dead
19:19:49 <Vorpal> alise, but worth a quick try
19:19:52 <alise> Vorpal: worth a try, where do i get nethack-recover
19:19:59 <alise> fucking shitting fuckfuck, i was doing so well that game
19:20:01 <Vorpal> alise, the nethack package?
19:20:04 <alise> if it's lost i'm going to kill someone
19:20:10 <alise> Vorpal: not on arhc
19:20:11 <alise> *arch
19:20:15 <Vorpal> alise, list files of it
19:20:19 <Vorpal> alise, I'm not on arch atm
19:20:21 <Vorpal> can't check
19:20:23 <alise> I just tried nethack-recover, it didn't work.
19:20:26 <alise> no such thing
19:20:29 <alise> using pkgfile to find nethack-recover
19:20:32 <Vorpal> alise, it is probably /usr/lib/nethack/bin/recover
19:20:34 <Vorpal> or such
19:20:41 <Vorpal> just list files of nethack
19:20:46 <Vorpal> alise, it might not be in $PATH
19:20:56 <alise> [ehird@dinky ~]$ /usr/lib/nethack/recover
19:20:56 <Vorpal> and it might or might not be called nethack-recover or recover
19:20:59 <alise> what's base1?
19:21:03 <Vorpal> base1?
19:21:05 <alise> it wants a base1 argument
19:21:09 <alise> Usage: /usr/lib/nethack/recover [ -d directory ] base1 [ base2 ... ]
19:21:21 <Vorpal> alise, um. don't know read docs?
19:21:27 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, NH base directory, IIRC>
19:21:31 <Vorpal> alise, I never needed to use it
19:21:47 <Vorpal> alise, probably something in /var/games/nethack
19:21:48 <Vorpal> or sich
19:21:51 <Vorpal> such*
19:21:54 <alise> Phantom_Hoover: which is?
19:22:08 <Phantom_Hoover> alise, not sure.
19:22:08 <Vorpal> alise, just read docs
19:22:18 <Phantom_Hoover> It's where the game data file is kept.
19:22:19 <fizzie> base is the "0user" sort of base-name of the savefile.
19:22:20 <cpressey> I don't think I can handle an AnMaster called "Vorpal"
19:22:35 <Vorpal> cpressey, why is that
19:22:38 <CakeProphet> wiki for code? yes
19:22:41 <Vorpal> I'm not likely to change it
19:22:43 * CakeProphet ahems
19:23:03 <fizzie> (And -d is the game data directory.)
19:23:05 <cpressey> CakeProphet: Oh, did you just now see the topic?
19:23:11 <Phantom_Hoover> CakeProphet, huh?
19:23:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, Hackiki.
19:23:16 <Vorpal> cpressey, it is of course a nethack reference as much as it is a Alice through the Looking glass reference
19:23:20 <Vorpal> Glass*
19:23:49 <cpressey> Yeah.
19:23:58 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:23:58 <Vorpal> cpressey, so why can't you handle it?
19:24:01 <Vorpal> ...
19:24:27 <CakeProphet> so concurrent Haskell is a little mind-bending to work with.
19:24:29 <Vorpal> next he is going to say he couldn't handle fizzie changing nick
19:24:35 <Vorpal> not that I never seen that happen
19:24:47 <fizzie> I don't have any plans to, so I'm "safe" that way.
19:24:49 <Vorpal> I ever*
19:25:43 <alise> Well, there's the end of my nethack kick.
19:26:15 <Vorpal> alise, why?
19:26:25 <Vorpal> alise, you might need to sudo
19:26:28 <Vorpal> for recovering
19:26:33 <alise> Checkpoint data incompletely written or subsequently clobbered;
19:26:33 <alise> recovery for "alock" impossible.
19:26:46 <alise> the end of my nethack kick is because i'm pissed off and fed up enough to not want to play any more
19:26:49 <alise> for a while
19:26:58 <Sgeo_> alise, think of it as YAAD
19:27:18 <alise> except i was doing very well that game, was in no imminent danger whatsoever, and could easily have got further
19:27:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
19:27:32 <alise> and because nethack loves deleting save files when you resume, it's lost
19:27:34 <alise> so yeah, fuck that.
19:27:50 <Sgeo_> What, you're going to play DCSS?
19:28:02 <alise> no, i'm probably just not going to play roguelikes at all for a while
19:29:50 <Vorpal> <alise> the end of my nethack kick is because i'm pissed off and fed up enough to not want to play any more <-- laptops were invented after nethack pretty much :P
19:29:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:30:01 <alise> Vorpal: system crashes were not.
19:30:02 <Vorpal> also mine would beep loudly at critical level
19:30:12 <Vorpal> alise, that is why nethack-recover exists
19:30:21 <alise> Vorpal: which failed, because the system chose the wrong time to crash.
19:30:29 <alise> i suppose the dev team count on system crashes being at nicely-scheduled times?
19:31:09 <Vorpal> alise, did you run it as sudo?
19:31:21 <alise> Jesus christ, running things with sudo doesn't fix things!
19:31:31 <CakeProphet> sure it does
19:31:34 <Vorpal> alise, considering permissions on /var/games/nethack it might
19:31:34 <alise> Checkpoint data incompletely written or subsequently clobbered;
19:31:34 <alise> recovery for "alock" impossible.
19:31:34 <CakeProphet> fixes permission problems.
19:31:36 <Vorpal> very likely
19:31:38 <Vorpal> alise, ^
19:31:43 <alise> Well, it didn't, tada.
19:31:44 <alise> Just tried it.
19:31:49 <Vorpal> okay
19:31:54 <Vorpal> alise, that is because you ran nethack I think
19:32:06 <Vorpal> alise, after the crash
19:32:11 <Vorpal> but before nethack-recover
19:32:12 <alise> <ais523> it must have been halfway through writing recovery data when it crashed
19:32:27 <Vorpal> alise, he is not online? where did you speak to him
19:32:32 <alise> he is in #nethack.
19:32:35 <alise> he left this channel.
19:32:46 <Vorpal> alise, invite him here!
19:32:57 <alise> he left because he didn't want to be in here.
19:33:33 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, why?
19:33:42 <Sgeo_> Because of me :(
19:33:43 <alise> If he wanted to say, I'm sure he would have.
19:33:49 <alise> Sgeo_: don't be so hard on yourself :P
19:34:30 -!- wareya has joined.
19:35:01 <alise> Jesus fucking christ! I'm not going through Sokoban again.
19:35:23 <Sgeo_> alise, I may be able to help with Sokoban
19:35:34 <Sgeo_> Also, it's strictly optional
19:35:38 <Sgeo_> Good idea, but optional
19:36:07 <alise> Yeah, whatever, I'm not going through all the stuff before Sokoban either.
19:36:10 <alise> Or any of it. Or fuck that.
19:36:23 <Sgeo_> :(
19:36:25 <CakeProphet> this conversation would be more INTENSE with CAPS LOCK
19:36:29 <CakeProphet> LIKE THIS
19:36:31 <Sgeo_> You'd have to again soon
19:36:35 <Sgeo_> Probably
19:36:45 <alise> Sgeo_: Actually, the mines were exceedingly easy.
19:37:02 <Sgeo_> Yes, but you really think you'd ascend this game?
19:37:08 <alise> No.
19:37:12 <alise> But I expected to get quite a bit further.
19:37:42 <Phantom_Hoover_> Flonk!
19:38:00 <Flonk> Phantom_Hoover_: At your service
19:38:19 <Phantom_Hoover_> Flonk, make me tea.
19:38:32 <Sgeo_> Flonk, give me a programmer's bit
19:38:39 <Flonk> Phantom_Hoover_: alright, but you'll need to get it youself
19:38:49 <alise> NetHack needs a combination of switches, -f -u -c -k, that will put you in a room with ten thousand easy-to-kill monsters to take your frustration out on.
19:38:51 <Phantom_Hoover_> Flonk, wait, are you American?
19:38:56 <Flonk> thats not #IRP lol
19:39:01 <Flonk> Phantom_Hoover_: nope, I'm from austria
19:39:17 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, well, debug mode + levelport + bigroom is good for that.
19:39:33 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: but also a bitch
19:39:44 <Phantom_Hoover_> And you can give yourself a 128-charge /oD and a -128 AC.
19:40:00 <Phantom_Hoover_> So you can take down most things with relative ease.
19:40:29 <alise> How can you attack your pet?
19:40:32 <Sgeo_> Hit death with a /oDeath
19:40:38 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise,
19:40:38 <Sgeo_> alise, F<move>
19:40:46 <alise> Felix yowls! You kill poor Felix! Welcome to experience level 3.--More--
19:40:50 <coppro> lol
19:40:52 <Phantom_Hoover_> Sgeo_, the DevTeam thought of that.
19:40:52 <Sgeo_> alise, where?
19:40:57 <Phantom_Hoover_> It makes him stronger.
19:41:15 <alise> wow
19:41:17 <Sgeo_> Phantom_Hoover_, I knoww
19:41:21 <alise> coppro: the downstair WASN'T under that boulder
19:41:28 <coppro> where was it?
19:41:28 <Vorpal> <CakeProphet> this conversation would be more INTENSE with CAPS LOCK <-- Caps Lock, I never seem a keyboard with it in all upper case
19:41:33 <alise> coppro: i don't know, and i'm fainting
19:41:36 <Vorpal> though that is somewhat ironic
19:41:39 <Sgeo_> alise, wait what?
19:41:41 <coppro> lol :/
19:41:45 <alise> coppro: now i'm fainting every other turn
19:41:49 <alise> Sgeo_: i copied the savefile out to investigate later
19:41:54 <alise> the Dlvl 1 of Doom
19:41:59 <alise> i've mapped out almost the entire screen
19:42:01 <alise> not a single downstair
19:42:04 <coppro> alise: you're screwed
19:42:13 <Vorpal> just checked the keyboards/laptops I have around here: Caps Lock, Caps Lck, CapsLk
19:42:16 <alise> can i gnaw on my leg?
19:42:18 <Phantom_Hoover_> What is the optimal way to kill Death?
19:42:18 <Phantom_Hoover_> When you have debug, and hence unlimited wishes and resurrects.
19:42:52 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, no.
19:42:58 <alise> why
19:43:06 <alise> i killed felix for food but he didn't leave a corpse :)
19:43:11 <fizzie> Vorpal: FWIW, this keyboard has a "CAPS LOCK", with CAPS on one line, and LOCK under it, and then a little "A in a box" symbol vertically centered, to the right of the text.
19:43:17 <Phantom_Hoover_> I assume because you can't get your leg as an item.
19:43:21 <alise> As you read the scroll, it disappears. Your hands begin to glow red.--More--
19:43:40 <alise> | alise |
19:43:40 <alise> | 85 Au |
19:43:40 <alise> | killed by a |
19:43:40 <alise> | newt, while |
19:43:40 <alise> | helpless |
19:43:56 <coppro> congratulations
19:44:11 <alise> my savefiled stupid fucking deleted game isn't even in the record
19:44:14 <alise> fucking fucking fuck
19:44:29 <alise> i'm not going to cheat
19:44:51 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, well, of course you'd say that.
19:45:13 <alise> i can't believe i'm this pissed off...
19:45:17 <alise> but seriously i was doing well!
19:45:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm
19:45:27 <Sgeo_> My laptop hibernates when it's low on power
19:45:38 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, I suspect there's an option for it.
19:45:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, FWIW? For ? Information ?
19:45:49 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: i doubt it
19:45:52 <alise> options are game-related
19:46:05 <alise> Vorpal: for why information wins
19:46:09 <Vorpal> alise, XD
19:46:10 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, true, but NH has a tonne of compile-time macros.
19:46:18 <Sgeo_> Vorpal, For what it's worth
19:46:23 <Phantom_Hoover_> Like no Elbereth, etc.
19:46:27 <Vorpal> Sgeo_, ah
19:46:28 <olsner> it's a silly limitation
19:46:41 <alise> olsner: what is?
19:46:43 <olsner> why can't they just let you choose how you manage your savefiles yourself, bah
19:46:45 <alise> ah
19:46:51 <alise> olsner: because it's designed for multi-user systems
19:46:54 <alise> so it's very ... protective
19:47:04 <alise> also, resuming savefiles after you die is Very Much Against the Rules
19:47:11 <fizzie> Vorpal: "For what it's worth."
19:47:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, right, as Sgeo_ said
19:47:34 <olsner> you can make savefile backups manually but it's apparently considered cheating somehow
19:47:38 <fizzie> Og.
19:47:49 <alise> olsner: it is
19:47:58 <Phantom_Hoover_> I was once accused of cheating on #nethack for asking what the extent of NH's savefile protection was.
19:48:05 <alise> ha
19:48:08 <alise> but #nethack are nice ...
19:48:54 <Phantom_Hoover_> Yeah, the person was nice after I explained that I was just curious.
19:49:27 <Phantom_Hoover_> TV Tropes seems to be wrong about it encoding the inode into a savefile to prevent copying.
19:49:37 <Phantom_Hoover_> Although that does seem paranoid enough.
19:51:15 <alise> nethack.eu is low latency but not low latency enough
19:51:18 <fizzie> Paranoid, but overly brittle.
19:51:58 <Sgeo_> alise, well, you'd rather have this situation happen again?
19:52:29 <alise> Sgeo_: i'd rather not keep it unplugged
19:52:31 <alise> tyvm
19:52:55 <Sgeo_> You're playing again though? :D
19:53:03 <alise> yeah. i guess so.
19:53:06 <alise> same time, same bat-channel.
19:53:19 <alise> let's see if i can't stab the wizard of fucking yendor to death
19:53:21 <alise> broadcasting now
19:53:51 <Phantom_Hoover_> Broadcasting?
19:53:59 <alise> telnet termcast.org
19:53:59 <Sgeo_> telnet termcast.org
19:54:21 <alise> sec
19:54:23 <alise> going to adjust a setting or two
19:54:47 <alise> back
19:55:11 <alise> stubborn doors here
19:55:45 <alise> whaat?
19:55:46 <alise> felix died already
19:55:47 <Sgeo_> Permanently answering your qu.. not that it matters
19:55:50 <Sgeo_> RIP Felix
19:55:53 <Phantom_Hoover_> Your cat died immediately?
19:55:57 <Phantom_Hoover_> Falling rock?
19:55:57 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: turn 220
19:56:00 <alise> god knows
19:56:20 <Phantom_Hoover_> Well, you might want to *check*.
19:56:51 <alise> Why?
19:56:59 <Phantom_Hoover_> FOR SCIENCE
19:58:09 <alise> general store on lvl 1 ftw
19:58:10 <Vorpal> <olsner> you can make savefile backups manually but it's apparently considered cheating somehow <-- yes iirc it done by recording inode ins the files or some other such devious trick
19:58:16 <Vorpal> in*
19:59:15 <Phantom_Hoover_> Vorpal, so that was true?
19:59:18 <alise> Sgeo_: Let's see if I can't steal...
19:59:20 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover_, note "iirc"
19:59:23 <Phantom_Hoover_> Paranoid indeed.
19:59:25 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover_, learn what it means
19:59:31 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover_, it also records pid iirc
19:59:38 <Vorpal> not sure why
19:59:42 <Phantom_Hoover_> Vorpal, yeah, the PID is well-know.
19:59:48 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover_, forgot why it does that
19:59:52 <Phantom_Hoover_> But the inode is a little more nebulous
20:00:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> Vorpal, something to do with runtime tampering?
20:00:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover_, not sure
20:00:55 <Phantom_Hoover_> Vorpal, to stop you interrupting the normal save-quit process?
20:01:08 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover_> TV Tropes seems to be wrong about it encoding the inode into a savefile to prevent copying. <-- checked their nethack article, they don't mention anything about that?
20:01:21 <Phantom_Hoover_> Vorpal, they definitely did.
20:01:52 <alise> how do you destroy a boulder again?
20:01:54 <alise> >_>
20:02:05 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, as valk?
20:02:20 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, invent?
20:02:28 <alise> ?
20:02:37 <alise> i've forgotten how i did it in sokoban :P
20:02:38 <Vorpal> alise, inventiry
20:02:41 <Vorpal> inventory*
20:02:41 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, inventory.
20:02:44 <alise> oh
20:02:48 <alise> ~nothing
20:02:50 <Vorpal> alise, Don't destroy boulders in sokoban
20:02:54 <Vorpal> very very bad idea
20:02:56 <alise> long sword, dagger, small shield, plate mail, food, magenta potion
20:02:58 <alise> Vorpal: no it's not
20:03:01 <Vorpal> alise, luck penality?
20:03:02 <alise> Vorpal: it's the only way i solved the last one
20:03:04 <Vorpal> I'm pretty sure
20:03:05 <alise> Vorpal: yes, -1
20:03:06 <alise> very small
20:03:08 <alise> and you get it back
20:03:11 <alise> after some turns
20:03:15 <Vorpal> hm
20:03:24 <alise> i.e. well worth it if the alternative is /not completing sokoban/
20:03:27 <Sgeo_> Unless you have a non-blessed Luckstone
20:03:30 <Vorpal> well yes, but I try to have a luckstone and be on positive luck
20:03:53 <alise> so you'd rather forfeit sokoban?
20:04:12 <alise> Yum, slime molds!
20:04:15 <Sgeo_> I'd rather not screw up Sokoban
20:04:40 <Vorpal> yeah you shouldn't need it in sokoban
20:05:08 <alise> Sgeo_: wtf @ invincible box
20:05:11 * Sgeo_ breaks alise's legs
20:06:18 <Vorpal> alise, invincible box?
20:06:22 <alise> Yay poisonous!
20:06:27 <alise> Vorpal: it took like 40 hits to unlock
20:06:43 <Sgeo_> alise, wow, far out man
20:06:44 <alise> hallu is the best state of mind in which to be in.
20:07:08 <Sgeo_> When I played NetHack around the first time, I was hungry
20:07:13 <Sgeo_> I ate some corpse
20:07:19 <alise> You are getting the munchies.
20:07:29 <Sgeo_> I thought "Hallu" meant hallelujah that I am not starving
20:07:32 <alise> XD
20:07:44 <alise> Then you got killed by a master lichen?
20:09:49 <alise> Everything looks SO boring now. You stop waiting.
20:10:28 <alise> Conga line of ssssssnakes
20:10:30 <alise> ssssssss
20:11:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
20:12:27 <Sgeo_> You can blind stuff with that pie
20:12:36 <Sgeo_> But blinded creatures don't respect Elbereth
20:12:48 <Sgeo_> Unless they were born blind
20:13:13 <alise> Ah, I see: only creatures that were born blind can read.
20:13:28 <alise> This dog is the most cursed.
20:13:52 <Sgeo_> RIP Fluffy Ol' Felix
20:14:01 <alise> Killed by money
20:14:06 <alise> Evil money
20:14:24 <alise> .. What the fuck?!
20:15:10 <Sgeo_> RIP alise
20:15:21 <alise> Thanks, Tyr.
20:16:38 <alise> Sgeo_: Is being hit by a floating eye really so bad?
20:16:53 <Sgeo_> Being paralized by one and dying to some grid bug is
20:17:08 <alise> How long does the paralysis last?
20:17:12 <alise> Also, *paralysed.
20:17:18 <Sgeo_> Don't know
20:17:27 <alise> Well, that was easy.
20:17:55 <Sgeo_> Methinks Fluffy saved your life by weakening that eye
20:18:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
20:19:28 <Flonk> Phantom_Hoover_: http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7154/lalzn.jpg there you go. (look at that awesome blue cat with the white tail)
20:19:58 <Phantom_Hoover_> Flonk, appallingly weak and without milk.
20:20:05 <alise> Milk is unacceptable.
20:20:10 <alise> But yes, appallingly weak.
20:20:21 <alise> Did you let it infuse for three or more minutes?
20:20:41 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, milk is acceptable with lowish-end tea.
20:20:45 <Flonk> I'm sorry. I think it were only 2.
20:20:54 <Phantom_Hoover_> HERETIC
20:20:59 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: But why would you drink lowish-end tea?
20:21:09 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, money, dear boy!
20:21:09 <alise> **NOTE TO SELF: Stash on dlvl 6.
20:21:17 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: Gentlemen do not lack money!
20:21:21 <alise> And besides, even if they do,
20:21:27 <alise> what better thing to spend your minimal money on than tea?!
20:21:34 <Phantom_Hoover_> **NOTE TO SELF: Steal stash on dlvl 6.
20:22:48 <alise> **NOTE TO SELF: Stash consists of plate mail and nothing else.
20:23:13 <Sgeo_> What's the name of a poisonous corpse?
20:23:28 <Sgeo_> I can't seem to get PinoBot to warn me about dangerous corpses
20:23:38 <alise> pois
20:23:55 <Phantom_Hoover_> Why is CL's namespace system called Lisp-2?
20:24:07 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: because it has N namespaces, but most people only care about 2
20:24:11 <Phantom_Hoover_> It has at least 3 separate namespaces.
20:24:15 <alise> Sgeo_: are cursed scrolls ever useful?
20:24:18 <Sgeo_> Yes
20:24:34 <Phantom_Hoover_> alise, what, so classes don't count?
20:24:35 <Sgeo_> cursed scroll of genocide lets you make monsters
20:24:39 <Sgeo_> For instance
20:24:49 <Sgeo_> Cursed scroll of teleport lets you teleport to different levels
20:25:12 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: not for the point that lisp-2 makes
20:26:06 <alise> Sgeo_: quarterstaffs any good?
20:26:19 <Sgeo_> Wizards start with one
20:26:41 <alise> indeed they do
20:26:44 <alise> are they any good?
20:27:36 <Sgeo_> I have no idea
20:27:41 <Sgeo_> What's good are athames
20:27:52 <Sgeo_> They engrave elbereth semi-permanently and fast
20:28:11 <coppro> yeah
20:28:14 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined.
20:28:31 <Phantom_Hoover_> fungot?
20:28:31 <fungot> Phantom_Hoover_: jade*: nothing grew among the rafters. withel regarded it without love. ymor's ravens were notoriously loyal to their design, prisoners and slaves that have sucked blood from larger animals.
20:28:35 <Phantom_Hoover_> http://www.conservapedia.com/Category:Success
20:28:42 <alise> Sgeo_: I don't often Elbereth.
20:28:46 <alise> coppro: I'll pick it up then.
20:29:04 <coppro> <3 Magicbane
20:29:15 <coppro> alise: you would if you have Magicbane :D
20:29:15 * alise establishes an attitude of complete ignoring to his pets
20:29:24 <alise> coppro: i'm a valk man
20:29:28 <alise> excalibur is more my thing
20:30:10 <coppro> alise: it's useful against certain monsters still
20:30:40 <alise> LIGHT LIGHT OH THE LIGHT
20:30:52 <alise> (The answer is "run")
20:30:56 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
20:31:04 <alise> Oops, that didn't work. Oh well.
20:31:14 <alise> You feel more confident in your weapon skills. It yelps! You hit it.
20:31:15 <alise> I... stop that.
20:31:44 -!- sshc has joined.
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20:32:36 <Sgeo_> o.O
20:32:44 <Sgeo_> You're on Dlvl 7 so soon
20:32:48 <Sgeo_> Or maybe I just suck
20:32:55 <alise> The first levels are ... boring.
20:33:04 <alise> I just map them out, kill whatever appears, pick shit up and move on.
20:33:07 <alise> No training or anything.
20:33:39 <alise> although
20:33:43 <alise> this is dlvl 8 and i'm only exp 6
20:33:46 <alise> so i should train a bit
20:34:14 <nooga> i died in angband
20:34:15 <nooga> again
20:34:22 <nooga> this sucks
20:34:23 <alise> Sgeo_: it's just that nothing's really attacked me.
20:34:42 <nooga> i con't like the idea thet you cannot save game whenever you llike
20:34:48 <Sgeo_> nooga, like Angband?
20:35:02 <alise> nooga: nethack!
20:35:06 <alise> if your sytem doesn't crash it's FUN!
20:37:28 * Sgeo_ WTFs at online graphical nethack
20:37:48 <alise> yeah
20:37:51 <alise> i keep mixing up up and downstairs
20:38:04 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
20:39:41 <alise> I just killed a horse in one hit fuck yeah
20:40:05 <alise> How can I ID my bag?
20:40:53 <alise> Sgeo_: RIP me.
20:41:01 <Sgeo_> You're not dead yet
20:41:04 <alise> 3 hp
20:41:06 -!- Gregor-W has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
20:41:07 <alise> prayed merely turns ago
20:41:12 <alise> no idea what my potions are
20:41:18 <Sgeo_> Slow down
20:41:20 <Sgeo_> And think
20:41:29 <alise> I am. Now what?
20:41:34 <Sgeo_> Is the monster in question Elbereth-respecting?
20:41:41 <alise> Soldier ant; so yes, I suppose so.
20:42:14 <Sgeo_> Don't go team a!
20:42:54 <Sgeo_> RIP Alise.
20:42:54 <Phantom_Hoover_> Go team ant!
20:43:03 <alise> Sgeo_: Fucking return key
20:43:07 <Sgeo_> ...?
20:43:14 <Sgeo_> Return key shouldn't cause you to wait
20:43:27 <alise> It caused me to /move/.
20:43:35 <alise> You were fast; you are dead.
20:44:07 <Sgeo_> Wizard!
20:44:11 <Sgeo_> Aww
20:44:21 <alise> I can do Valkyrie; I've never played any of the others. :)
20:44:52 <Sgeo_> Floating eyes are SO easy to kill when you're a wizard
20:45:10 <alise> Dammit, tweaking settings
20:45:13 <Sgeo_> Hm?
20:45:15 <Phantom_Hoover_> Most things are, so long as you have enough pow.
20:45:21 <alise> I disabled autopickup
20:45:23 <alise> Turns out that's irritating.
20:46:45 <alise> pickup_types=/"$?
20:46:48 <alise> Removed = because fuck rings.
20:47:00 <alise> Actually, added them back in because I'm used to it.
20:47:05 <alise> Re-broadcasting.
20:47:31 <Sgeo_> I'm playing again'
20:50:19 <nooga> Sgeo_: yeah
20:50:44 <Phantom_Hoover_> So what understandable Scheme-in-Scheme compilers are there?
20:50:45 <Sgeo_> grr, need to drop stuff
20:51:00 <nooga> i play angband because i don't like nethack's key bindings
20:51:14 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: ichbins is "almost scheme"
20:51:20 <alise> nooga: you mean vi keys?
20:51:21 <alise> hjkl
20:51:46 <alise> nooga: you can use the number pad
20:51:52 <alise> if you enable numpad
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20:58:11 <alise> Sgeo_: SO MANY BOULDERS
20:58:30 <Sgeo_> And a mimic
20:58:55 <alise> i was talking about my game XD
20:59:47 <Sgeo_> Believe me, there are more boulders here
21:00:44 <alise> Wait, the mines?
21:00:50 <alise> Oh, right.
21:01:11 -!- zeotrope_ has joined.
21:03:06 <Sgeo_> I stayed unspoiled the first two levels, minor spoilers the third level, and completely spoiler-reliant the 4th
21:04:04 -!- zeotrope has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
21:04:09 <fizzie> The SICP compiler is very understandable, but it's also not very serious.
21:04:16 <fizzie> (To put it mildly.)
21:05:33 <fizzie> It also targets a strange simulated Scheme register machine; I'm not quite sure what you wanted with a "Scheme-in-Scheme compiler".
21:05:42 <alise> dlvl 3, exp 1; this is ludicrous
21:06:58 -!- Gregor-W has joined.
21:08:58 <alise> Sgeo_: It feels so much like I'm just ... messing around
21:09:04 <alise> In the game
21:09:37 <alise> abandoned felix dlvl 3, can't find him
21:09:41 <alise> oh, he's down there.
21:13:31 -!- sshc has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
21:13:34 <alise> Sgeo_: Shall I fight the shk?!
21:13:41 <alise> <Deuce> shk damage: 4d4/4d4
21:13:44 <alise> I CAN TOTALLY HANDLE THAT.
21:14:44 <alise> Your long sword softly glows with a light blue aura.
21:14:48 <alise> The issue is more my HEALTH, Tyr.
21:14:50 -!- sshc has joined.
21:18:56 <alise> Sgeo_: Think I should start another game?
21:19:33 <Sgeo_> Why not?
21:19:40 <alise> Because I... I.... Yeah, okay.
21:19:45 <alise> Narrowcastin'
21:20:02 <alise> Sgeo_: wow, no doors
21:20:03 <alise> ssss
21:20:16 <alise> Um, Sgeo?
21:20:18 <alise> We are trapped.
21:20:51 <Sgeo_> Or not
21:20:56 <alise> Howcome
21:21:04 <alise> OBSERVE
21:21:09 <alise> 200s
21:21:11 <alise> still nothing
21:21:17 <Sgeo_> Look for more doors!
21:21:30 <alise> Oh, there.
21:21:34 <alise> Hey, NetHack does calculus.
21:21:42 <Sgeo_> heh
21:22:01 <alise> Monsters, you're not meant to run away from me.
21:22:59 <alise> You read: "1994-1995. The Longest-Lived Hacker Ever".--More--
21:25:04 <alise> RIP Felix
21:26:41 <alise> Trapdoor'd
21:27:24 <alise> Sgeo_: wtf
21:27:54 <Sgeo_> Hm?
21:28:00 <alise> Sgeo_: low-lighting ... room
21:28:03 <Sgeo_> BTW, Trapdoor != death
21:28:25 <alise> hardest cave spider ever
21:28:44 <alise> WTFFFFF
21:28:47 <alise> HOW IS IT DOING THIS
21:29:41 <Phantom_Hoover_> How does NH do calculus?
21:29:51 <alise> Phantom_Hoover_: "dx"
21:29:57 <alise> Sgeo_: a cave spider just got my hp down from ~32 to 7
21:29:58 <alise> wat
21:30:00 <Phantom_Hoover_> Poor.
21:30:49 <alise> Kitten corpse :(
21:31:06 -!- zeotrope_ has changed nick to zeotrope.
21:32:08 <Phantom_Hoover_> That's even worse when you're a wizard.
21:32:10 <alise> @ a human or elf (werejackal) [seen: normal vision, infravision]
21:32:12 <alise> Praying time soon <3
21:32:20 <alise> Or not
21:33:30 <alise> Dlvl:5 $:358 HP:66(66) Pw:6(6) AC:6 Exp:5 T:1938
21:35:30 <Sgeo_> Unihorn GET
21:35:35 <Sgeo_> Thank you Sokodog!
21:35:51 <alise> Sock a dog
21:39:26 <alise> DAMMIT SHK
21:42:09 <Sgeo_> Don't anger shopkeepers?
21:42:21 <alise> but
21:42:28 <alise> but but but but the
21:42:31 <alise> the.
21:43:06 <Phantom_Hoover_> And NEVER anger Ischak.
21:43:19 <alise> **HORRIBLY OFFENSIVE** He'll kill you with cancer!
21:43:27 <alise> ...but yeah, fuck the watch. Fuuuuuuck them.
21:44:11 -!- Gregor-W has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
21:46:21 <nooga> is there any comfortable frontend for nethack?
21:46:58 <alise> nooga: yes, nethack
21:47:02 <alise> turn on numpad if you don't like vi keys
21:47:10 <alise> nooga: ... there are guis, but i don't like them
21:47:13 <alise> you might want a large terminal
21:47:19 <alise> to stop inventory etc taking up space on the screen
21:47:30 <alise> set DECgraphics, colour, hilite_pet... in fact a bunch of options
21:47:34 <alise> you may like the menucolour and HPmon patch
21:50:04 <pikhq> Fucking fuck what?
21:50:14 <pikhq> Apparently, 2 > 1 > 3
21:50:26 <pikhq> Erm, 2 < 1 < 3, sorry.
21:50:34 <pikhq> Which is still wrong wrong wrong.
21:50:41 <alise> pikhq: whaat
21:51:51 <nooga> alise: but how am i supposed to move
21:51:58 <nooga> i don't have numeric keyboard
21:52:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
21:52:05 <nooga> adn hjkl is painful
21:52:08 <alise> nooga: ok ... then suck it up and learn vi keys
21:52:13 <alise> make sure your hand rests on hjkl
21:52:15 <alise> not jkl;
21:52:15 <pikhq> alise: The Primary Phase of H2G2 is showing as discs 3, 1, 2, or 2, 1, 3, depending.
21:52:19 <pikhq> Somehow.
21:52:25 <nooga> uhu uh
21:52:27 <alise> nooga: srsly, for the amount of time a game takes in nethack -- which is LONG
21:52:32 <alise> the time spent getting used to vi keys is nothing
21:52:37 <alise> diagonals are yubn, by the way
21:52:44 <alise> pikhq: In QL?
21:52:55 <pikhq> alise: Yeah.
21:52:55 <alise> pikhq: Hmm. Clearly you aren't sorting sufficiently.
21:53:13 <alise> pikhq: what is the headers = line in .quodlibet/config?
21:54:01 <pikhq> headers = ~#disc ~#track ~title~version ~album~discsubtitle artist ~#length
21:54:24 <alise> What is your sort column in quodlibet?
21:54:32 <alise> pikhq: also, how are your albums tagged, wrt. discnumber?
21:54:42 <alise> I think that with MusicBrainz, the easiest thing is just to let it put the disc number in the title.
21:55:01 <pikhq> alise: If there are multiple discs in the album, there's a discnumber tag.
21:55:07 <alise> pikhq: Right.
21:55:19 <alise> pikhq: But Picard can put it in the album tag.
21:55:21 <alise> pikhq: Alternatively, close QL and substitute ~album~discnumber~discsubtitle... you may have better luck.
21:55:28 <alise> (You can't edit the file while QL is open; it'll overwrite it on quit.)
21:55:51 <alise> The display is a little bit ugly -- "Foo - 1 - The Amazing Disc" -- but it should sort correctly.
21:55:53 <alise> Probably.
21:56:21 <alise> brb
21:56:32 <pikhq> GAAAH
21:56:50 <pikhq> I set it to sort *by disc* and it fucking sorts wrong.
21:56:54 <pikhq> HOW DO YOU FAIL THAT BADLY
21:57:23 <pikhq> On the other hand, it is now sorting with a different order.
21:57:27 <pikhq> 2,3,1.
21:57:32 <pikhq> Which makes less sense.
21:58:32 <pikhq> Remove the musicbrainz_albumid tag and it all works.
21:58:38 <pikhq> Moral of the story: that tag is retarded.
22:01:10 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
22:01:33 <coppro> yay, I won BN
22:04:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined.
22:08:08 <Sgeo_> DAMMIT
22:09:57 <coppro> Sgeo_: ?
22:10:11 <Sgeo_> Thought I messed up Sokoban
22:10:16 <coppro> oh
22:17:34 -!- cheater109 has changed nick to cheater99.
22:20:47 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
22:27:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
22:30:11 * alise 's table buckles
22:34:53 -!- cpressey has joined.
22:35:27 <alise> cpressey the ... something ending with essey
22:37:41 <cpressey> "Marking an item as out-of-band allows the creation of monads in functional evaluations. More automatism will be introduced in future, but scripters can have monads by assigning the oob status to complex objects and perform out-of-band processing on them. " -- http://www.falconpl.org/project_docs/core/funset_oob_support.html
22:38:15 <Sgeo_> My dad's being nutty
22:38:38 <alise> That's ... unusual ... ?
22:38:44 <alise> *...?
22:38:47 <alise> cpressey: What.
22:39:06 <cpressey> alise: Short version: Falcon makes me laugh.
22:39:13 <alise> I ...
22:39:26 <alise> cpressey: also, *Bear Wrestling
22:39:32 <cpressey> RIGHT SORRY
22:39:39 <cpressey> Bear Wrestling makes me laugh.
22:39:55 <alise> cpressey: I'm from PETA. Hi.
22:40:02 <cpressey> Argh
22:40:14 <cpressey> They're, uh, robot bears.
22:40:28 <cpressey> Like from Disneyworld, y'know?
22:40:35 <alise> I said "PETR", not "PETA". Yeah, I know, they sound alike.
22:40:36 <cpressey> That jamboree thing
22:40:48 <alise> Please come with me.
22:41:17 <cpressey> PETR?
22:41:23 <cpressey> Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_Bear_Jamboree
22:41:33 <alise> People for the Ethical Treatment of Robots.
22:41:38 <cpressey> OH DAMN
22:41:45 <cpressey> It's a fair cop.
22:42:03 <alise> I'll show you a fair cop... MEET THIS POLICEMAN.
22:42:08 <alise> He's here to arrest you for robot bear cruelty.
22:42:13 <alise> Or, rather, the enjoyment thereof.
22:42:48 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
22:50:51 <alise> cpressey: I hereby reverse my opinion of NetHack, btw.
22:51:15 <cpressey> You like now?
22:51:47 <alise> Well, "like"; I hate its guts (especially the RNG), but, you know...
22:51:57 * alise kicks off his 5435th game
22:52:00 <cpressey> You enjoy.
22:52:09 <alise> Not ... enjoy, as such ...
22:52:23 * alise starts seriously considering the possibility that a roguelike is controlling his mind
22:52:44 <cpressey> You have acquired an addiction, I was just going to say...
22:53:01 <alise> -- on a more serious note, no, i do like it now
22:53:05 <alise> Probably "not dying" helped.
22:54:24 <alise> If you aren't here in a few turns, Felix, I'm leaving you behind.
22:58:45 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:58:59 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
23:07:30 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:08:29 <cpressey> oerjan: There seem to be undecidable questions about reflective finite automata.
23:08:38 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:08:41 -!- wareya has joined.
23:08:47 <oerjan> what's reflective?
23:08:59 <Sgeo> A "oReflection!
23:09:00 <cpressey> Reflective meaning, it can examine itself.
23:09:35 <oerjan> oh it's own "source code" then?
23:09:41 <cpressey> Like, I dunno, it has a cursor that can travel around the transition table, and it can read its own states and transitions off of it.
23:09:46 <cpressey> Yeah, "source code".
23:10:15 <oerjan> ok then
23:10:30 <cpressey> Because I can write: if (this_automaton_accepts()) then reject(); else accept();
23:11:01 <cpressey> Of course, this may be some kind of illusion
23:11:13 <oerjan> um that sounds wrong. reading your own source code isn't enough to decide if you accept
23:11:29 <cpressey> accepts_on_any_input()?
23:11:34 <alise> and if you simulated yourself you'd end up looking at yourself again
23:11:36 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:11:37 <alise> ad infinitum
23:11:51 <nooga> i can't pick up things
23:12:00 <alise> nooga: in nethack?
23:12:04 <alise> i hope you have autopickup off
23:12:06 <alise> it's evil
23:12:11 <alise> or at least
23:12:12 <alise> severely restricted
23:12:20 <cpressey> oerjan: Well, right, but it can't do that. OK, that's not "undecidable" so much as it is "undecidable by finite automaton".
23:13:00 <cpressey> Sry it was alise who said that
23:13:06 <alise> nooga: , picks up, anyway.
23:13:18 <oerjan> well _that's_ not very surprising, really
23:13:53 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: Zzzz).
23:15:59 <cpressey> oerjan: ... yeah. Well, back to the drawing board
23:16:08 * oerjan declares the logs too long to read again
23:16:24 <Sgeo> Aww, Sokodog is dead :(
23:19:09 <alise> Sgeo: I'm doing well this game!
23:19:12 <alise> BUT SOKODOG IS NOT.
23:19:26 <Sgeo> You stole my pet name???
23:19:32 <alise> no
23:19:34 <alise> i meant yours
23:19:37 <alise> /still/ on sokoban?
23:19:42 <Sgeo> I had to go afk
23:19:50 <alise> also, soko+dog is hardly something you can own :P
23:21:04 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: New quit message. Entering 2006 in style.).
23:21:16 <Sgeo> Well, at least the precious " wasn't eaten by a rock mole
23:21:17 <alise> dammit
23:21:20 <alise> (@ my gamestate)
23:21:37 <Sgeo> And at least my laptop's not losing power, causing me to lose the gamestate entirely
23:22:33 <Sgeo> Hmm, I should clear out Soko
23:22:37 <alise> @########y##········##
23:22:38 <alise> *gulp*
23:22:40 <Sgeo> There's a lot of stuff of unknown value
23:22:44 <Sgeo> Do you havea blindfold?
23:22:52 <Sgeo> Or unihorn? Or carrot?
23:22:52 <alise> You feel agile! You must have been working on your reflexes. ;; after 100.
23:22:56 <alise> Nope; early game.
23:23:05 <Sgeo> Do you mind being blind?
23:23:10 <Sgeo> Wait, yellow or black?
23:23:10 <alise> Nope; I'm cured.
23:23:12 <alise> Yellow.
23:23:16 <alise> What's black?
23:23:19 <Sgeo> Hallu
23:23:22 <alise> Sweet.
23:24:22 <alise> d@d
23:24:24 <alise> were
23:24:25 <alise> dammit
23:24:28 <Sgeo> Ooh, /polymorph
23:25:07 <alise> Does #monster last even after you change back?
23:25:16 <Sgeo> I think #monster varies
23:25:27 <Sgeo> But for lycanthropy, the pets stay tame
23:25:49 <alise> How long until I unwerewolf?
23:26:02 <Sgeo> *shrug*
23:26:34 <alise> It seems permanent ...
23:26:36 <alise> XD
23:27:14 <alise> ...
23:27:17 <alise> Sgeo: just waiting doesn't help, does it?
23:27:51 <alise> there
23:27:55 <alise> woot jackal pets
23:28:00 <Sgeo> I think you'll turn back to @-form eventually, but not de-lycanthropize
23:28:09 <alise> will praying cure it?
23:28:16 <Sgeo> I think so, not sure
23:28:25 <alise> yep
23:28:40 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Reboot).
23:30:11 <Sgeo> Sokopussy
23:30:39 <Sgeo> Sokokitty
23:31:22 <alise> | alise |
23:31:22 <alise> | 480 Au |
23:31:22 <alise> | killed by a |
23:31:22 <alise> | killer bee |
23:32:18 -!- oerjan has joined.
23:33:55 <alise> Sgeo: gimme dat bag
23:34:03 <Sgeo> What bag?
23:34:07 <Sgeo> This is my inventory
23:34:23 <Sgeo> I'm looting a chest
23:34:40 <Sgeo> Putting some junk away
23:34:59 <alise> i thought you had a bag
23:35:00 <alise> :p
23:35:01 <alise> oh yeah
23:35:05 <alise> you can use chests to put things in
23:35:06 <alise> only now considered that
23:35:57 <Sgeo> Are all these fruits rotton?
23:35:59 <Sgeo> Dangit!
23:36:35 <alise> Rotton
23:37:13 <cpressey> I am totally missing out on this NetHack craze I guess
23:37:43 <Sgeo> Why'd my pet die?
23:37:59 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:38:01 <Sgeo> My useless Sokopussy
23:38:14 <alise> cpressey: Apparently watching me infects everyone else.
23:38:28 <alise> Although I'm rather boring before I get to... well, around Sokoban time.
23:41:55 <Sgeo> Dangit, I think I used up that poly wand
23:42:09 <alise> Fuck you and your Amulet of Reflection!
23:42:25 <Sgeo> alise, Soko can also hold BoH
23:42:40 <alise> Yes, yes.
23:43:02 <Sgeo> My polymorph got a completely useless cure blindness spell
23:44:46 <oerjan> is that useless? i get this impression y'all are getting blind a lot
23:45:00 <Sgeo> I have a unihorn, which cures blindness easily
23:45:05 <oerjan> ah.
23:48:24 -!- Flonk_ has joined.
23:50:08 -!- Flonk has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
23:50:22 -!- Flonk_ has changed nick to Flonk.
23:53:35 <Sgeo> alise, check out all my new spells!
23:55:29 <Sgeo> Gonna go make some more without regards to sensibility
23:56:22 <Sgeo> Charm Monster!
23:57:20 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]).
23:58:37 <Sgeo> Gonna save here and relax
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