00:00:03 (jonnynomind) 00:00:08 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:00:14 I hate them because they broke my brain and I want it back. 00:00:34 zzo: basically it's polyphonic zzt #play 00:00:36 Is it just me, or does implementing monads in the language itself seem like an inelegant hack? 00:01:08 Phantom_Hoover: Pretty much, 00:01:09 *much. 00:01:44 13:00:14 32-bit PCM is sufficient for recording the full dynamic range possible in air. 00:01:47 13:00:18 This includes shock waves. 00:02:20 we need that for those realistic nuclear hand grenade first-person shooters 00:02:52 Phantom_Hoover: He's going to treat us like a band of trolls! 00:02:55 Invading! 00:02:56 Or -- ignore us. 00:03:00 pikhq: haha that's nice 00:03:00 :) 00:03:00 oerjan: Also "end of the world"-class disaster movie soundtracks. 00:03:15 yeah 00:03:22 alise: maybe you should just tell him that #esoteric is invading 00:03:41 ATTACK 00:03:46 Leave no prisoners! 00:04:09 Mathnerd314: "We will add your syntactical and semantical distinctiveness to our own. Your language will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile." 00:04:56 *semantic, not semantical 00:05:19 haha, yes. An esolang named Borg... 00:05:26 Wow, that's a pretty good attack against the esoborg 00:05:39 Sgeo: What is, exactly? 00:05:41 Have them try to assimilate a poisonous language 00:05:48 xD 00:06:14 Mathnerd314: its only instruction is to load an esolang from the wiki 00:06:17 * Mathnerd314 needs to watch more Star Trek 00:06:21 and combine it with the current one 00:06:22 Mathnerd314: we'd need a Category:Borg_assimilee to add to other languages then 00:07:02 What happens when it tries to assimilate a Lisp and Factor? 00:07:09 pre and post fix? 00:07:18 "They doesn't have to." 00:07:20 they combine to get mixfix 00:07:21 Actually, I was vaguely wondering what a combination would be like 00:07:37 Sgeo: (define (f x) [(+ 2 "abc" length 2 +)] call) 00:07:56 I was thinking more along the lines of some words being prefix some being suffic 00:07:59 *suffix 00:08:02 And no parents 00:08:05 *parens 00:08:09 he said synergies 00:08:52 an orphan language 00:08:57 so something Haskell-like except with suffix-functions 00:09:37 Did you just seriously use the word synergy in a non-ironic context? 00:09:37 Phantom_Hoover: did you seriously use the word non-ironic in an non-ironic context? 00:09:38 You could probably run Wolfram Research in a few years if you started now. 00:09:38 Phantom_Hoover: Uhm... is that good or bad? 00:09:46 incidentally, parens is no more a logical abbreviation of parentheses than parents is 00:10:06 alise, should I tell him or goad him further? 00:10:17 Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. 00:10:20 But don't tell him anything. 00:10:25 This is a silent invasion of laughter. 00:10:27 ok maybe slightly, the latter divides a phoneme 00:11:23 `addquote Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. 00:11:38 Parenth, for people with lithpth. 00:11:41 218| Phantom_Hoover: Don't be nasty; he's a lunatic, not a murderer. 00:11:43 jonnymind, oh, good. Your attitude towards language design is very similar to that of Wolfram himself. 00:11:44 Uhm... in that case: thanks. 00:12:04 even the egos are similar.... 00:12:04 :) 00:12:04 .... 00:12:04 * jonnymind searches the ban button :) 00:12:13 Even his channel members are turning against him! 00:12:35 poor lucone, banned for getting the joke? 00:12:54 hahahaha 00:12:58 everyone's just ganging up against him 00:13:00 poor guy 00:14:26 Is there a addon for PPMCK that allows mixing MML codes with assembler codes and machine codes? 00:14:39 falcon had to be fast in managing raw native data in a way that was high level and comfortable in a script. ← therefore monads. Makes sense. 00:15:42 A design philosophy combines their justifications into one coherent goal. 00:15:43 alise: was getting to it. 00:15:48 00:15:55 alise, I think we both know his design goal. 00:16:12 "Put all of the cool toys from other languages in!" 00:16:16 When I degenerate into just outright flaming his stupidity, I'm gonna whip out the Borg line. 00:16:41 Hmm, what interesting esolangs can we add? 00:16:46 Ooh, Feather! 00:16:58 Phantom_Hoover: Add to...? 00:17:07 Falcon. 00:17:41 Phantom_Hoover: Okay, stop being evil. 00:17:48 I seriously want to interrogate this insane man. 00:17:51 OK... :( 00:19:48 Feather barely even exists in its creator's mind. 00:19:48 (Like a four-spatial-dimensional object, poking slightly in and moving around in some incomprehensible way, dropping out occasionally.) 00:19:48 o,O 00:19:48 that's poetry... 00:20:03 Add some of the INTERCAL stuff, such as the FORGET command and things like threaded COME FROM. 00:20:18 And also add the preprepreprocessor. (Enhanced CWEB has a preprepreprocessor) 00:20:19 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:21:10 alise, finally gave in? 00:21:16 -!- wareya has joined. 00:21:26 Phantom_Hoover: No, I realised it could work earlier on being said by Falcon. 00:22:07 MWAHAHA he does not know of our secret war room 00:22:35 We shall take Tiger Mountain. By strategy! 00:22:37 cpressey: A friend just facebooked (and a friend-of-a-friend told a similiar story) about a plumber that came to fix something, left saying "I'll need to go get some more tools from the car", and then never came back (or at least not in two weeks). 00:22:49 alise, BtW, Feather is meant to be computable, and AFAIK is. 00:22:50 clearly there is an epidemic of alien plumber abductions 00:22:57 Phantom_Hoover: I know. 00:23:26 or wait the other one was a maintenance guy, not a plumber 00:23:35 but the evidence is clear, anyway 00:23:39 fizzie: FTR he did eventually come back and say that it needs a part that he won't be able to get 'til Tuesday. 00:23:55 Evidently aliens are bad at UFO maintenance. 00:24:05 Plumbers are just specialized pipe maintenance guys. 00:24:26 Phantom_Hoover: ooh, maybe they've been abducting people to fix it, yeah 00:24:40 Obviously. 00:24:43 Unix is primarily about pipe maintenance. 00:25:22 Hey, another Voyager cast member who hates it! 00:25:24 [[After being cast as Harry Kim, Wang had a strained relationship with Voyager executive producer Rick Berman, who took over from Star Trek inventor Gene Roddenberry: "When Roddenberry passed the reins over to [Rick] Berman, unfortunately Berman kept the same formula. And he just kept plugging it in. So when I'm asked what made Voyager stand out...you are talking about the same overall formula so it doesn't. It has stayed the same for every single episode. 00:25:24 "]] 00:25:41 alise: why else would the internet tubes run on it, duh 00:25:47 [[In a 2007 interview with scifiworld.com, Wang voiced his displeasure about the show. He felt the Harry Kim character was "underused", passive and one-dimensional. Prior to Season 2, he went to the producers and said: "Listen I want to have a stunt double, I want to do some stunts, I want to run, I want to kick; I want to have a love life". He also stated to only have had "minimal" creative impact upon Harry Kim: he desperately wanted Harry Kim to be funn 00:25:47 ier, but the producers felt that Neelix or The Doctor fit better as comic relief. In the end, he described it as unfulfilling,[2] and also spoke of a "rift" between Berman and him.[1] When he complained that every other character on the show got promoted except Kim, he was told that he had to remain the lowly Ensign because "well someone's got to be the ensign".[3]]] 00:27:30 jonnymind: Philosophies usually are :) 00:27:31 let's say that there may be different ways to solve a problem. 00:27:31 Not the complexity theory. 00:27:35 A--what now? 00:28:07 alise, you want to enjoy Falcon? 00:28:13 Phantom_Hoover: I have to keep the peace. 00:28:18 This is interesting. 00:28:26 Although I have decided he simply has really terrible taste. 00:28:27 alise, you are a better man than I. 00:28:46 ...   [ name|"unknown", income| {=> self.name.len()*100} ], 00:28:48 hmm. Borg should have a design philosophy. 00:28:59 Just call me Abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz 00:29:15 I am still of the opinion that his philosophy is that other languages have cool things, and that he wants these cool things. 00:31:19 Add commands to adjust the optimizer 00:31:40 Add stack based programming 00:31:49 Mathnerd314: to assimilate all other languages and their features is not obvious enough for you? 00:31:54 Add dependent theorem proving! 00:32:46 For Borg, how about have one construct, " will be assimilated" and then perform the following block of code? 00:33:22 Phantom_Hoover: i haven't looked at falcon but my intuition is that there are clearly cool features in various languages that are _incompatible_ with each other. and that _might_ be part of falcon's problem, i don't know. 00:33:24 Possibly piping each block to the next, or viewing it as a function of some description. 00:33:56 You need function concatenation operator 00:34:15 zzo38, also known as "composition". 00:34:30 Phantom_Hoover: Yes. 00:35:16 " will be assimilated [as ] [with (full type inference vs. object subtyping, for one. simplicity vs. all the rest, for another...) 00:36:21 I think this is why its monads are hideous. 00:36:27 You need to add some features that are like Forth. Often it is a kind of problem a bit sometimes that other program language do not have these kind of feature like Forth. 00:36:34 Add rule functions like Magic Set Editor has. 00:37:11 Very, very slightly. 00:38:24 Well, the overall justification is interesting, but not very sensible. 00:39:10 Phantom_Hoover: OOB seems to "tag" a value with a special invisible quality which makes some built-in functions do something different with it when they receive it. 00:39:22 zzo38, why does everything have to be like Forth? Surely some non-Forth languages might be good? 00:39:52 hm that's more or less the idea i had for the LiMonadE vapor-language (unlambda + monads) 00:40:08 oerjan, augh at the pun 00:40:09 Vorpal: Not everything has be like Forth, but some of these feature are useful 00:40:14 (the quality being the monad, of course) 00:40:16 mhm 00:40:38 Make a preprepreprepreprocessor 00:40:48 -!- myndzi\ has joined. 00:40:51 And also postpostpostprocessor 00:41:14 for what? 00:41:36 I think this kind of feature can be useful sometime 00:42:10 I can't see the use for more than a single layer of pre-processing in general. 00:42:31 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:42:51 * Vorpal consider lisp meta-macros 00:42:55 augh 00:43:48 ...And jonnymind has just said that his monad model can easily break if you use it with map. 00:43:58 Words cannot express how stupid that is. 00:45:27 night 00:45:59 * Phantom_Hoover → sleep 00:46:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:49:41 Enhanced CWEB has its own meta-macros format, and they have many purposes, and can be mixed with TeX as well as with the C preprocessor, and that means it can do a lot of things. 00:51:17 (A common thing I use is to define @-p to predeclare a procedure as well as start its definition, without having to repeat it) 01:06:36 -!- tombom_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:14:24 oerjan: Re Falcon: it is both the incompatibility of everything, plus the, well, non-standard nomenclature. I would bet the designers do not hold degrees in CS (otherwise they would be more careful about what they call a "monad" or "functional programming", is all.) 01:15:18 mhm 01:15:42 (mind you i don't hold a degree in CS either :D) 01:15:51 -!- Tatiana1 has joined. 01:16:22 Hi 01:16:28 hi 01:16:52 First of all, sorry for my terrible english 01:17:33 Hi. 01:17:36 We're not about religion. 01:18:04 ok 01:18:10 Where are you from? 01:18:16 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:18:21 The Internet 01:18:36 From home 01:18:48 Home 01:18:50 Let me come home 01:18:55 Home is whenever I'm with you 01:18:58 You have to go to your own home 01:19:02 And I go to my own home 01:20:39 Tatiana1: i am from norway. although this channel is not usually an "ordinary" chat channel either (we talk about computers, technology and math a lot) 01:20:55 "ordinary"? 01:21:08 Are you saying that ordinary chat rooms have most of the people be from the same area? 01:21:19 If so, where would I find such a chat channel for my area? 01:21:32 actually i have no idea what they are like since i've probably never been on one :D 01:21:38 ok, it is a ecletic chat rsrsrs 01:21:49 ecletic? 01:22:07 It is for esoteric programming, so you can look at the wiki for more information about esoteric programming language 01:22:09 Sgeo: buy a dictionary 01:22:14 what zzo38 said, i was about to say that 01:22:20 Sgeo: what i really mean is that we're not the kind of chat where you start out by asking people where they are from ;D 01:22:21 Sgeo: or use the internet 01:22:34 oerjan: Yes. 01:22:59 No such word as ecletic 01:23:07 It is correct. We not generally start by asking where you are from 01:23:08 worp 01:23:12 although many of us do know where many of the others are from, eventually :) 01:23:28 at least approximately 01:23:37 Sometimes looking at the IP address / domain name can help a bit 01:23:47 To see where you are from, in case you are interested 01:24:08 worp worp 01:24:15 Well, the Internet has been unhelpful 01:24:52 and to do that, you can usually do a /whois someone's_nickname command. i think. it probably depends on client. 01:24:57 Sgeo: oh, i see, boring typo pointing outs 01:25:06 shoerp 01:25:10 alk 01:25:15 And eclectic doesn't seem to have any.. oh, I see what he thinks this is 01:25:20 Just a general chatroom? 01:25:23 worp worp worp 01:25:25 Combination of stuff? 01:25:26 In this client it just displays it in every message that user sends. 01:25:35 *Are* there "general chatrooms" on freenode? 01:25:41 cpressey, defocus 01:25:57 knarl 01:26:07 -!- augur has joined. 01:26:09 We do all sorts of stuff in this channel, but mostly programming stuff, and sometimes mathematical stuff, and things related to that, are most common. And esoteric programming discussion is on topic to this channel. 01:26:10 cpressey: defocus; it's shit 01:26:40 alise, it's an IRC channel 01:26:43 How can it be shit? 01:26:54 (This client displays other client's IP address / domain name before every message, in dark cyan, after the @ sign) 01:27:52 Sgeo: we _are_ pretty eclectic, just not general. iiuc what eclectic means. 01:27:58 Sgeo: is this one of your hyper-literal-interpretations-are-hilarious thing, or just... I don't know 01:27:59 Tatiana1: #esoteric = (computer programmers | mathematicians) + (very smart | very strange | very creative) 01:28:07 cpressey: hahahaha 01:28:08 talk about ego 01:28:18 rsrsrsrs i liked 01:28:26 where are you from? 01:28:28 Tatiana1: I don't follow "rsrsrs". 01:28:31 cpressey: I guess that is pretty close! 01:28:43 alise, it's an uttern failure to understand 01:28:44 #esoteric = (dabblers & dilettantes & amateurs) + (computing skill) + (a few people of actual merit) :-) 01:28:52 but we're cool dilettantes! 01:28:53 "rsrsrsrs" = smile 01:29:01 Sgeo: #defocus is shit. As a community ... it is shit. 01:29:02 alise: I suppose that is also it! 01:29:09 Are you unfamiliar with the expletive "shit"? 01:29:19 rsrrrrr 01:29:32 Tatiana1: rsrsrsrs isn't very common here, we usually use smileys or maybe a lol 01:29:35 alise: who is of actual merit? 01:29:43 * Sgeo has never seen rsrsrsrs before now\ 01:29:44 alise: I suppose I'm painting the ideal rather than the reality. But, damn, most of us *are* one of those. 01:29:46 Have seen rsr5 01:29:58 * oerjan swats Sgeo -----### 01:30:14 nooga: well, that would be telling (and rude to everyone else). (ais523, cpressey, oerjan, a few others) 01:30:33 ofc including yourself.... ? 01:30:35 rsrsrs or huahauhaua 01:30:42 nooga: I don't see why. 01:30:53 Oh, it 01:30:57 s r5rs? 01:31:01 nothing, ignore that 01:31:03 * Sgeo selffacepalms 01:31:09 Dabbling dilettante with computing skill. I don't see why that doesn't fit me better than actually-skilled-person. 01:31:41 Tatiana1: hau hau is actually a way to write the sound that dogs make 01:31:43 in Polish 01:31:52 I think both cpressey's and alise's fits well. 01:32:11 hau hua = is smiling 01:32:12 alise: Well. If you want to look at what we DO, sure. We dabble. We... dilletante things up. 01:32:13 :P 01:32:13 Sgeo: i have a hunch alise may think general chatrooms are shit in general 01:32:28 oerjan: absolutely not! I loooove #esoteric 01:32:36 rofl 01:32:38 where are your from? 01:32:46 erm 01:32:50 alise: i thought we just established #esoteric was _not_ a general chatroom 01:32:54 The observable Universe 01:33:03 we had that map, remember? 01:33:04 oerjan: well we like to pretend it's not :-) 01:33:16 Tatiana1: I am from Canada, in case you really care. (You can check my domain name and see that my service provider is from Canada, too) 01:33:19 nooga: we downloaded all the data before the site shot itself 01:33:22 He has no face!.... erm, it has no topic1 01:33:47 although of course #esoteric may be twisted into an approximation of what hyper-geeks might think an ideal general chatroom _should_ be. it's why i'm here, isn't it. 01:33:49 understood 01:33:59 Tatiana1: England, the country of violating 14 year olds' human rights as defined by the UN, and rain. 01:34:03 Uhh, I'm totally not bitter or anything. 01:34:09 Wow, that reference is ungoogleable 01:34:10 yeah right 01:34:17 Sgeo: *topic! 01:34:34 It is modarchive.org -able 01:34:47 nooga: ? 01:34:54 nothing :D 01:35:13 * Sgeo decides that the n in nooga stands for "nothing" 01:35:22 I`m from Brazil 01:35:26 Sgeo: actually my swat wasn't for your misspelling, i didn't even notice that :D 01:35:36 Well, what, "on topic"? A few days ago I released a stupid language called Eightebed, which proved nothing *really*, but which released me to work on something else for a while. I've had a few ideas, one of which is a fixed set of grid-rewrite rules which I think could be Turing-complete in an interesting way. 01:35:42 Tatiana1: But maybe you want to see the things that the people on this channel have invented and stuff, if you really care, that is. 01:35:52 Tatiana1: Poland, polar bears, vodka, moustache etc etc 01:36:07 And the occasional vodka moustache. 01:36:12 ;D 01:36:19 * Sgeo attempts to make BF-RLE sound important 01:36:23 i've never seen a goddamn polar bear 01:36:38 nooga: oh in reply to what i said? :) 01:36:42 ISIDTID 01:36:52 i think so ;f 01:37:16 nooga: Go to the zoo 01:37:20 http://modarchive.org/index.php?request=view_by_moduleid&query=73115 01:37:21 I`m telling the truth 01:37:24 anyway, sleep time, brb 01:37:29 shipped with the desktop version of Alchemy 01:38:16 Tatiana1: we didn't say otherwise 01:38:37 Tatiana1: I'm more of a "This sentence is false" person myself. 01:39:07 This sentence is true but unprovable. 01:39:23 :P 01:39:47 This sentence is false, but its negation is unprovable. 01:39:57 nooga: i'm not sure you quite get the r part of brb 01:40:17 either that or you sleep rather fast 01:40:21 This sentence is true, and its negation is unprovable 01:40:28 This sentence is false and unprovable 01:40:34 Work out stuff relating to the above 01:40:42 * Sgeo makes hand-wavy gesture 01:41:00 This sentence is equivalent to the Riemann hypothesis. 01:41:22 Surely "The Riemann hypothesis." is simpler? 01:41:24 Tatiana1: Brazil's pretty cool. That's where Lua comes from. 01:41:26 erm 01:41:31 Surely "The Riemann hypothesis is true." is simpler? 01:41:32 This sentence's negation is provable if and only if the Riemann hypothesis is correct. 01:41:37 Lua? 01:42:02 Oh, I forgot to mention: we're largely concerned with programming languages, formal calculi, and models of computation here. 01:42:07 Lua's a programming language. 01:42:14 Sgeo: hm 01:42:17 May be easier to deal with "This sentence's negation is provable if and only if statement P is true." 01:42:33 See how that relates to statement P 01:42:40 Sgeo: OK. 01:42:58 The jsforth guy complained about Lua due to lack of bit manipulation 01:42:59 Maybe "largely concerned" is too strong. Theoretically, we all like those things. They make us feel good. 01:43:01 iirc 01:43:35 Sgeo: I also complained about Lua due to lack of bit manipulations, too. 01:43:54 I could care less for bit manipulations. I mostly like Lua. 01:44:12 I don't mind 1-indexing in a language. But when it's supposed to interact with C.. 01:44:27 Not really a strong complaint, but still 01:44:39 Ooh! adjustable indexing! 01:44:42 * Sgeo turns into a Perl 01:44:48 either that or you sleep rather fast ;; damn Uberman 01:45:06 Surely "The Riemann hypothesis is true." is simpler? ;; Surely [Riemann hypothesis] is simpler? 01:46:10 Sgeo: I'm not thrilled with the conflating of maps and arrays. Part of me says, that's just going too far. 01:46:23 It's fun! 01:46:31 * Sgeo evillaughs 01:47:28 -!- Tatiana2 has joined. 01:47:57 cpressey: Better than Tcl conflating everything with strings. 01:48:39 * Sgeo o.Os at the number of Titanics in the Futurama universe 01:49:02 Sgeo: is it countable or uncountable? 01:49:14 countably finite 01:49:22 BORING 01:49:27 * Sgeo wonders if "uncountably finite" makes sense 01:49:45 i don't think so 01:50:09 Sgeo: It only make sense if what you mean by "uncountably" is that it is too long to count and you don't have time or words for them 01:50:30 But that is probably not what is meant, because it isn't what it meant in "uncountably infinite" 01:50:31 I hate only having 3 options when there are 2 booleans 01:50:38 there is that model of ZF without axiom of choice where two definitions or finite don't coincide, though 01:50:50 -!- Tatiana1 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:50:52 -!- choochter has joined. 01:51:24 one of them being essentially "can be counted by a finite natural number", the other being "is not the same size as a proper subset of itself" 01:52:40 Example of a set where those definitions aren't equivalent? 01:52:41 however if you can be counted by any ordinal at all, those two coincide 01:53:28 -!- Tatiana2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:54:18 well in such a model you have sets that are not equivalent to a proper subset of themselves, but which _still_ are not equivalent in size to any {1,...,n} 01:54:44 * Sgeo wonders if "uncountably finite" makes sense <-- Thank you; you are justifying "very strange" 01:55:11 I don't want to have a table with 4 spaces with one space not making sense! 01:55:15 1, 2, 3... ah, shit, I'm bored. Well, I guess that the numbers on the clock are uncountably finite. 01:55:15 you cannot embed _all_ the naturals into them, but you can embed any finite set of naturals. you cannot extend the embedding to all without using the axiom of choice. 01:55:16 I do sometimes think of strange things like that too, but not specifically that 01:55:19 It's ugly and horrible and nightmare incuding 01:56:34 in a sense such a set is uncountable (not equivalent to a subset of naturals) but still finite in the other sense 01:56:48 Huh. Awesome 01:57:23 Sgeo: What is ugly and horrible? And why? 01:57:33 A B 01:57:36 A ~B 01:57:40 ~A B 01:57:46 and ~A ~B doesn't exist 01:58:06 And in what context? 01:58:38 Any! *insanes* 02:00:26 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedekind-finite 02:00:58 verbing non-verbs, a clear sign of insaning 02:01:12 I am a bit insane too, a bit.... but I don't consider myself ugly and horrible and nightmare incuding 02:01:36 good, good 02:02:54 * Sgeo happies oerjan for allowing "uncountably finite" to exist 02:04:33 Insane people do things that are improper because the proper way is very wrong 02:06:02 Celia Green wrote a book with the thesis that in all of human history, only two people were sane. Everyone else was (and is) insane. 02:06:14 Just thought I'd throw that out there. 02:06:30 Which two? 02:06:44 And insane monsters do things that are very improper because the very proper way is extremely wrong. 02:06:57 And when I play D&D game I prefer to play monster character. 02:07:30 And also because someone wrote a book, I don't know which book I mean, though. 02:08:05 * oerjan seconds Sgeo's question 02:08:32 Yes, which two people? Or, does Celia Green not know which two? 02:10:08 clearly the answer must be something explosive. 02:11:10 Sgeo: Jesus Christ and Frederick Neitzsche. 02:11:36 Not saying I agree with her, or anything. 02:11:37 * oerjan had a hunch about the first one 02:11:40 cpressey: THey are also just as insane as everyone else, I think 02:13:31 zzo38: I agree. I would also note that Jesus Christ, as portrayed in the New Testament, is in my opinion largely fictional, and that ol' Fred is just as insane as anyone else, just in a completely different direction. 02:14:11 (I say the latter based on having read Thus Spoke Zarathustra; I've never read the New Testament from cover to cover, though.) 02:14:48 Fred makes some good points, but, sheesh. Calm down, dude. Sit. Have some tea. Organize your thoughts. 02:15:06 cpressey: Yes, I agree with you about Neitzsche, and about Jesus, that may be correct (we don't actually know what (if anything) happened, it is just written by a few people). 02:19:11 If my character is dead, I create another character, a different monster character, also, and beginning at the next session, and the DM has to fit it into the game somehow, there are many ways 02:21:02 Clones! 02:21:10 * Sgeo wonders why people are following him 02:22:24 Clones? 02:22:37 Are clones following you? 02:29:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:29:47 -!- augur has joined. 02:30:50 apparently they must have got him 02:32:27 Oops! I didn't mean to do that! 02:32:43 I pushed the "d" button! That makes the room exsovalve! 02:32:52 well too late now 02:33:18 i would probably be panicking if i knew what exsovalve was 02:33:33 I don't know what exsovalve is either 02:33:36 s/probably/clearly/ 02:34:02 good, good. then maybe we can avoid panic 02:34:10 food -> 02:36:44 Food? 02:36:50 Is food following you? 02:38:58 no i'm stalking it. 02:39:11 Ah ha! 02:39:23 Well, well, an INTERCAL reference in #haskell. 02:39:35 That means everyone playing "the game" has to take a swig. 02:39:39 * cpressey takes a swig 02:43:37 so that's what they call "the game" these days 02:44:14 clearly INTERCAL is no match for haskell's reverse state monad 02:47:25 Ah, so much crazy, so little time. 02:50:17 What should I do, to make the best use of my limited crazy-time? 02:51:07 heck if _i_ know 02:52:32 cpressey: I don't know? 02:53:22 this problem is obviously at _least_ NP-complete. 02:53:26 Of course not. Don't mean to put that burden on ' 02:53:31 *y'all. 02:53:57 But first, I'm going to see if the reverse state monad is something real, or something oerjan just made up. 02:54:15 * oerjan cackles evilly 02:54:27 Apparently real 02:55:09 the top google hit seems aptly named 02:57:58 OK, I can only imagine how that works. 02:58:15 My understanding of monads is (ask Phantom_Hoover) still quite crude. 02:58:26 But I *can* imagine. 02:58:36 I was thinking just the other day, 02:58:51 "You know, there ought to be any number of really bizarre monads you could write" 02:59:06 (Not that anyone in this channel could think of any at the time) 03:02:09 I don't think of any at the time, because I don't know a lot about monads, to think of it. 03:11:26 I thought reverse state was an esome inventiojn 03:12:51 Why is it that simply placing cheese between slices of bread and grilling it freaking *delicious*? 03:12:59 s/freaking/is freaking/ 03:13:45 Because you can make sandwich! 03:14:09 pikhq, I hate non-grilled cheese sandwiches 03:14:19 Are grilled really that much better? I never tried 03:15:06 Sgeo: ... Non-grilled cheese sandwiches? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS. 03:15:32 pikhq: There is a scientific reason. Let me see if I can remember it. 03:15:33 I just eat the bread, then eat some cheese a while later... 03:16:51 Grilled sandwich is better, at least in my opinion. 03:17:15 if I have some tomato in it too, then definitely yes 03:18:37 * Sgeo should find out how to grill sandwiches 03:18:50 I need a grill, don't I? Are there safe indoors grills? 03:18:57 Sgeo: It's *ridiculously* easy. 03:19:03 you need a frying pan and some butter 03:19:10 Get a frying pan, some butter, and a sandwich. 03:19:44 Heat up frying pan. Butter bread. Apply to frying pan until sufficiently grilled. Flip. Apply to frying pan until sufficiently grilled. Remove. Eat. 03:19:49 butter? use olive oil. 03:20:25 How long does that take? 03:20:26 pikhq, I hate non-grilled cheese sandwiches 03:20:26 Are grilled really that much better? I never tried ;; yes 03:20:29 Okay, yes, you can also just oil the *pan* instead of the *sandwich*. 03:20:41 not long 03:20:42 Sgeo: Like, 5 minutes? 03:20:45 sgeo < 5 minutes 03:20:46 they are far, far better 03:20:46 BUT 03:20:51 I must advocate the superior option 03:20:53 Cheese on toast 03:20:58 Here is how you make cheese on toast: 03:21:01 Damn, I cannot find a reference to it. But I found a book with a fantastic title: http://books.google.com/books?id=-oRp5VCVTQQC 03:21:07 It doesn't taste less bad after some time, does it? 03:21:12 No. 03:21:24 I might end up bringing such sandwiches to school 03:21:24 Sgeo: unless you like it burnt 03:21:36 No, as in, make it, bring it to school, eat at school 03:21:38 Cheese on toast: Put butter on two slices of bread. Thick bread. Put cheese on these two slices. Strong cheese. Grill it (or whatever you want to do instead). 03:21:59 This is a more manly dish than a grilled cheese sandwich, but ... rather harder to store. 03:22:04 And you want to eat it hot. 03:22:21 * Mathnerd314 thinks about using an actual grill to make grilled cheese 03:22:58 MMaybe I won't spend so much money on buying chicken sandwiches from the place on campus 03:23:19 alise: Okay, so. Texas toast and strong cheese. 03:23:28 Then again, it is... why isn't poultry meat? 03:23:38 Sgeo: It's best hot. 03:23:38 Sgeo: It ... is .... 03:23:41 *... 03:23:47 pikhq: Texas toast? Fuck that shit. 03:23:53 alise: It's thick bread. 03:23:55 pikhq, :/ 03:24:08 pikhq: Nobody British enough to make a proper cheese on toast would buy anything with Texas in the name. 03:24:28 Anyway, I dimly remember some biochemistry term like "queso-opioid" or something, to refer to the chemicals that are produced when you bake or fry cheese. 03:24:32 alise: "Texas toast" is literally just thickly-sliced bread. 03:24:40 pikhq: Also, if it's bright, strong yellow and sliced it's not cheese. 03:24:48 I'm talking proper fucking cheddar here. 03:25:03 Damn! I want to go there sometime. To Cheddar, I mean. 03:25:08 * Sgeo decides not to make a Sgeo-style joke 03:25:09 alise: You want more horrification? 03:25:18 so cheese tastes better melted because it's filled with drugs? 03:25:19 wow 03:25:20 -!- oerjan has set topic: The cheesy channel | (a(:^)*S):^ | Should the esolangs community have a Hackiki wiki? (Wiki capable of running nearly-arbitrary code) Vote: http://poll.fm/23p9l | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D. 03:25:20 alise: There's things more artificial than "American cheese". 03:25:24 I wonder if they have a cheese tourism culture there... like Wisconsin. 03:25:36 calamari: haha wow 03:25:45 alise: For instance, there's "sliced cheese food product". People actually buy this and eat it. 03:26:03 pikhq: Well, I am totally not hearing you! 03:26:50 * Sgeo has no clue what kind of cheese is in the house 03:26:54 American, I think 03:27:06 alise: Mostly composed of vegetable oil. 03:27:57 Sgeo: Get you some cheddar. Now that's cheese. 03:28:42 Sgeo: American cheese is just bad cheddar + various other suspicious crap added + stupid colouring. 03:28:59 + whatever else Kraft decides they want you to have in your body as opposed to something you actually want in your body -- of the week 03:30:34 alise: Actually American cheese is just leftover bits of cheese from *various things* + emulsifiers + stupid colouring. 03:30:48 alise: With more crap added to make it lower quality sometimes. 03:31:15 (if it's pre-wrapped slices, it's got crap added. And it's vomitous, rather than merely crappy.) 03:31:40 pikhq: Oh, so no actual proper cheese. 03:31:57 Well, apart from leftovers. 03:32:02 Sgeo: tl;dr get some mature cheddar. 03:32:03 calamari: I only wish I could find a reference for it so I'm sure I'm not hallucinating it. 03:32:05 casual caseine 03:32:07 No, not medium. Mature. 03:32:17 Not extra-super-duper mature, though, that's kind of icky. 03:32:22 I've never been interested in cheese enough to care before 03:32:26 dammit, *casein 03:32:27 (Icky = Hey, I eat one crumb and it feels like my mouth hurts.) 03:32:39 Sgeo: That's probably because American cheese is the most boringly uninspiring food product there is. 03:32:49 Cheddar itself is delicious. Seriously. 03:33:02 why does american cheese taste so bad 03:33:44 madbr: as in [does it really?] or [what is the cause?] 03:34:02 what is the cause 03:34:11 alise: Sometimes, it's instead just throwing together milk, whey, milk fat, milk protein, salt, and emulsifiers in the right proportions. 03:34:24 madbr: that. 03:34:31 And yes, it is the most boring and bland cheese ever. 03:35:01 Cottage cheese has more flavor. And *that's* just curds and whey with some of the whey drained off. 03:36:14 american cheese has a flavor 03:36:20 it tastes bad :D 03:36:45 Crappy American cheese tastes bad. 03:36:51 "Good" American cheese just lacks taste. 03:37:28 there are many grades? 03:38:11 Are you familiar with Cheez Whiz? 03:38:27 Or Easy Cheese? 03:38:42 familiar no, I stay the hell away from that stuff 03:38:52 Those are also American cheese. 03:38:54 and my parents never buy it 03:39:48 alise: Easy Cheese, BTW, is "cheese" in a spray can. Yes. A spray can. 03:39:52 The only contact we Brits have with your icky American cheese crap is when we go into burger joints. 03:39:56 Also, what. 03:40:05 alise: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Easy_cheese2.jpg 03:40:13 Yes I... loaded the page. 03:40:18 That doesn't look like cheese. 03:40:34 1) cheese is not orange 03:40:36 It tastes like artificial cheese flavor. 03:41:00 If Kraft died tomorrow, the only innocent casualties would be a few chocolate brands. 03:41:06 (Toblerone, Milka. That's all I can think of.) 03:41:10 madbr: Cheddar cheese often is. (for no good reason, it's very common to dye it orange-yellow-ish) 03:41:23 pikhq: that's regional 03:41:32 True, but still. 03:41:34 pikhq: here they don't dye it so it's white 03:41:42 Where I live, they make cheddar cheese both white and orange, they make both kinds. 03:41:56 strong cheddar is never coloured in my experience 03:42:04 the orange is just the wimpy stuff for people who can't handle cheese 03:42:11 (and ofc you can get white mild cheddar too) 03:42:39 alise: I think you'd be amazed by some of the processed "foods" available in the US. 03:42:51 "In 1995 it was revealed that the Swedish politician Mona Sahlin had bought, among other things, two bars of Toblerone using her Riksdag credit card (i.e. taxpayer's money). This became known as the Toblerone affair. Sahlin was forced to step down as a candidate for the post as Prime Minister." 03:43:12 Wow, in the UK when our MPs started putting houses and porn and shit on their expenses, we just yelled at them for a month or two. 03:43:25 WE HAVE MOTHER FUCKING IMITATION MAYONNAISE. 03:43:33 Well, porn is one thing. But TOBLERONE??? 03:43:38 pikhq: ...but mayonnaise is the simplest thing to exist, ever 03:43:58 alise: "Miracle Whip". It's imitation. Fucking. Mayonnaise. 03:44:18 pikhq: I don't want to talk about this any more or ever again or ever make it stop 03:44:51 Make the pain stop 03:44:53 pikhq: One thing I have discovered is that in the US, unlike Canada, you can get actual *pickle relish*. It's amazing. I didn't even know it existed before. 03:45:04 cpressey: Pickle relish is delicious. 03:45:21 Is it illegal in Canada? 03:45:42 zzo38: No -- I had just never been able to find it. It's all sweet relish. 03:45:59 xD 03:45:59 "In 1933, Kraft was a well-established distributor of mayonnaise, yet sales were slipping as a result of the Great Depression.[citation needed] Kraft developed a new dressing similar to mayonnaise, but at a lower price. Premiering at the Century of Progress World's Fair in Chicago in 1933, Miracle Whip was an instant success as a condiment on fruits, vegetables and salads." 03:46:06 Pickle relish is CORRUPTING OUR CHILDREN 03:46:32 alise: Hey, be glad you're not Italian. 03:46:39 I have no children and I use no relish. 03:46:41 alise: Oh how I could make you pain. 03:46:50 zzo38: COMMUNIST 03:46:53 pikhq: wat 03:47:06 Y'know what, this might actually do it anyways. 03:47:08 alise: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3c/Kraftparmesan.jpg 03:47:11 alise: COMMUNIST??? 03:47:18 Yes, really. That's powdered "parmesan". 03:47:19 alise: mind you Mona Sahlin got better, she's currently the opposition's PM candidate 03:47:28 (again) 03:48:34 oerjan: Wow, I'm amazed that's a scandal over there. Props to you guys. 03:48:47 zzo38: SOCIALISM FASCISM 03:49:10 alise: Oh, there's also imitation whipped cream. 03:49:24 there's currently somewhat of a "scandal" in norway about at least three government ministers accepting afghan carpets as gifts (completely legally, mind you) 03:49:28 Often in a spray can! 03:50:06 (those are the prime minister, foreign minister and defense minister, i.e. the three that actually had any business going to afghanistan) 03:50:09 alise: BTW, I'm only naming highly commonly consumed things, not niche oddities. 03:50:17 pikhq: Can I cry please? 03:50:31 (otherwise I'd mention things like canned pancake batter) 03:50:35 I think I accidentally got upset over a simplification for teaching the other day 03:50:36 haha 03:50:46 oerjan: Can you guys let me come live there? Thanks. 03:51:07 Although I didn't realize that that's what it was, and I didn't know what it was non-simplified, and I got confused because the simplified BS made no sense whatsoever 03:51:41 I suppose I should explain what I'm talking about 03:53:08 alise: We also brought non-dairy creamer to the world. 03:53:39 ... No, that was Switzerland. 03:53:56 She was talking about sigfigs 03:53:57 Switzerland AND BRITAIN 03:54:04 alise: You should be ashamed. 03:54:15 And how for addition and subtraction, you just look at the number of significant figures after the decimal place 03:55:03 I didn't realize that this was just equivalent in some cases (presumably all that we'll be dealing with) to making the highest-place sigfig be the highest lowest sigfig in the operation 03:55:04 Sgeo: why is that being taught in university? 03:55:26 alise: Not taught in high school. 03:55:30 ... 03:55:32 you /are/ joking 03:55:38 We did do sigfigs in HS 03:55:41 iirc 03:55:47 It's just been a while 03:55:56 the unit did significant figures shit with me recently (year 10; most people would be 15, me 14) 03:55:59 and i remember thinking 03:56:04 why is this simple shit being taught so late?? 03:56:17 alise: it was also mention iirc that the minister for development (i.e. charity) had gotten a goat and a wife in sierra leone. however, he apparently didn't bring either back home ;D 03:56:22 *mentioned 03:56:24 alise: In many high school programs, it's not taught at all. 03:56:35 oerjan: The goat /was/ the wife. 03:56:43 pikhq: I refuse to answer. Let me cry alone. 03:56:52 I wish I were joking. 03:56:53 alise: no, that was another story, which i also seem to recall :D 03:57:11 Name a programming language or library which supports significant figures. 03:57:21 cpressey: Falcon 03:57:25 (the goat and the wife were as _gifts_, in case it wasn't clear) 03:57:29 OH SNAP! 03:57:34 oerjan: haha 03:57:45 "Here! Take my wife, Western king! (She's a whore.)" 03:58:01 Sounds Stargate-ish 03:59:05 alise: About what age do you guys generally get to algebra? 03:59:54 pikhq: Uh, around the same age. 04:00:07 alise: Which is? 04:00:12 Trivial shit, like "find x and y". 04:00:15 pikhq: 15 04:00:23 Ah. Yeah, around the same age. 04:00:30 I took it in 8th grade.. so what's that.. 13? 04:00:33 Which is pretty depressing. 04:00:45 pikhq: Around the same time as significant figures. :P 04:00:45 calamari: About. I did it in 7th. 04:00:53 Although, perhaps earlier, actually. 04:01:07 Since the unit were on this ridiculous "HE IS LACKING IN EDUCATION" kick at the time. 04:01:25 * pikhq did calculus his junior year. Whooooo... 04:01:34 Isn't Education sometime around the 18th birthday? 04:02:28 I used sigfigs in physics class. I don't like using sigfigs except with scientific notation. When the question involved sigfigs I wrote down the answer using scientific notation. 04:02:32 I saw political sign saying all kids should learn to read by 3rd grade.. I couldn't believe my eyes 04:02:51 but I live in AZ.. and we suck :( 04:03:27 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:03:30 calamari: I remember people still struggling with reading in my 3rd grade class. 04:03:34 Supposedly, every kid in my kintergarted class learned to read rather quickly 04:03:37 ISTR sigfigs way earlier than algebra. Then again, ISTR a sigfigs "refresher" in 1st-year undergrad physics. Soooo... 04:03:42 It was at some SLCD place 04:03:58 The teacher decided to teach phonics then. First time they'd seen any hint of words having anything to do with phonemes. 04:04:20 people make fun of phonics.. but they work 04:04:26 Stupid phonetic alphabet! Who needs it! 04:04:37 "The School for Language and Communication Development" 04:05:07 calamari: Better than brute-force pattern recognition. 04:05:12 * Sgeo o.Os at it being a school for children with "language and autism disorders" 04:05:12 (which, 04:05:29 FWIW, is *not* how Japanese or Chinese people learn their script...) 04:05:55 pikhq: Perhaps there is different way learning better for a different language 04:06:10 Sgeo: why o.O 04:06:26 zzo38: Yeah, I'm just pointing that out because some idiots go "ZOMG Chinese does whole language stuff THATS GREAT" 04:06:38 (even though there's rather a lot of phonetic cues in there) 04:06:41 I saw political sign saying all kids should learn to read by 3rd grade.. I couldn't believe my eyes ;; what age is third grade????? 04:06:42 pikhq: O, that is why 04:06:51 Because this channel has, at least once, tried to convince me that I am not on the spectrum? 04:07:17 I don't see why the kindergarden you went to should change any of that. 04:07:18 alise: Uh... 8 to 9. 04:07:29 Probably everyone in here has at least a minor-- 04:07:33 pikhq: ... 04:07:34 pikhq: No. 04:07:39 Haha, very funny. 04:07:53 spectral geo 04:07:54 alise: "n the United States, third grade (called grade 3 in some regions) is a year of primary education. It is the third school year after kindergarten. Students are usually 8 - 9 years old, depending on when their birthday occurs." -- Wikipedia 04:08:19 pikhq: I... 04:08:44 People who can't read by the time they enter nursery -- or at least leave nursery to enter proper school -- are considered thick as all hell. 04:08:47 Over here. 04:09:12 Doesn't everyone get the Reading stuff at 8 years old? 04:09:17 alise: Is nursery the equivalent of kindergarten? 04:09:23 Sgeo: "the Reading stuff"? 04:09:27 Sgeo: ... What? What? 04:09:37 pikhq: Pretty much. I'm not sure whether it's leaving nursery or entering nursery when you should be able to read or else you're really fucking retarded. 04:09:37 alise: Ah, yes it is. 04:09:37 ISTR everyone being able to read, and probably write, in 1st grade. 04:09:45 Like, someone learning to read in nursery is probably considered fine. 04:09:47 http://www.abelard.org/asimov.php 04:09:48 Although your parents probably suck. 04:09:51 For not teaching you sooner. 04:09:54 I'm assuming nursery == kindergarten. 04:10:11 Sgeo: Ah, that. 04:10:12 Yes. 04:11:32 alise: Kindergarten is not compulsory in all states. 04:11:57 I dunno if nursery is compulsory here. 04:12:01 But point is, wtf Arizona. 04:12:11 * cpressey more cheese toast 04:12:25 As such, there are many who arrive in first grade (that's about-equal to *year two* for you) not being able to read. 04:12:35 Ha, I have addictified cpressey with my quasi-opioid drug toast. 04:12:37 Er, cheese. 04:13:19 pikhq: I propose brutal eugenics. 04:13:22 "In language first graders are taught the fundamentals of literacy, including reading sentences, writing very simple statements and mastery of the alphabet, building on what the students have learned in kindergarten or other forms of pre-school (although because first grade is the first compulsory level of education in many U.S. states, the level of literacy in incoming students can vary widely)." -- Wikipedia. 04:13:34 Sure, it'll be utter fascism for a few generations, but it's not like it'll be any worse than your current political climate. 04:13:36 Yes, the *fucking alphabet*. 04:13:41 And then you can get some actual shit done. 04:13:45 *Six and seven year olds*. 04:14:44 Along with such concepts as "a clock" or "a calendar" or "money". 04:15:01 I hate your country. 04:15:05 And not for your freedom, either. 04:15:18 I get the feeling this was designed assuming that parents would never interact with their crotch-fruit. 04:15:41 Crotch-fruit is the most horrific term I have ever heard. 04:17:49 alise: How does primary-school math education go there? 04:19:00 Uhh... in a way that I utterly cannot remember. Ask Wikipedia. 04:19:13 It doesn't detail. 04:19:36 Stuff-like, then. 04:19:38 Google it. :P 04:20:25 alise, have you already read Profession, so I can spoil it? 04:21:04 No. 04:21:32 "In the United States, in mathematics, fourth graders are usually taught how to add and subtract common fractions and decimals. Long division is also generally introduced here, and addition, subtraction, and multiplication of whole numbers is extended to larger numbers." 04:21:44 I remember, the day we were to learn multiplication 04:21:51 I had watched some tapes on arithmatic 04:21:55 Sgeo: Of ... integers? 04:22:01 And I was convinced that a*b != b*a 04:22:02 Well, naturals. 04:22:12 alise: Yes, of naturals. 04:22:12 I think I've said this before 04:22:13 Yes 04:22:26 I remember long division! 4th grade sounds right. I still do it sometimes. 04:22:35 Um 04:22:38 Why were you convinced that a*b != b*a ? 04:22:42 Sgeo: this is clear proof of the matrix 04:23:12 zzo38, it made no sense that 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = 4 + 4 sort of thing should always work 04:23:41 I've mentioned this in here before 04:23:52 I remember once, in 6th grade 04:24:14 Convincing myself that 2/0 = 4/0 but not 3/0. I think because 2/0 * 2/2 = 4/0 04:24:23 But then how did 1/0 interact with stuff 04:24:26 < oerjan> (mind you i don't hold a degree in CS either :D) 04:24:31 I ended up crying over this 04:24:38 so basically Sgeo has always been a crank mathematician at heart 04:24:40 (I was a bit of a crybaby) 04:24:43 oerjan: No, clearly your degree was in Punning. 04:24:43 ...ok, maybe you are autistic 04:25:08 Admittedly, Dot Action has driven me near tears these past few days, but I think that is intentional on the part of its creator. 04:25:10 Or my memory may be wrong :/ 04:25:17 Sgeo: Yes you did mention about 2/0 = 4/0 but not 3/0, before. 04:26:08 -!- augur has joined. 04:26:19 Punning should so have been a city in china 04:27:22 There once was a man from near Punning, who had an idea oh-so cunning 04:27:45 NO 04:27:57 Limericks are going TOO FAR, cpressey 04:27:59 XD 04:28:11 especially when you don't manage to make them scan 04:28:46 or is "idea" two syllables 04:29:18 not that it scans _well_ in any case 04:29:40 ANnoying: Having to explain to an adult why x/0 is generally not considered to work before explaining how I think I'm getting it to work 04:29:40 There once was a man from near Punning 04:29:41 Who had an idea oh-so cunning 04:29:41 But to his dismay 04:29:41 Waking the next day 04:29:41 He found the neighbour's wife stunning. 04:29:44 I couldn't come up with the last line 04:29:51 so I made up something random instead 04:30:53 oerjan: Um... the "a" in "idea" just sort of floats there non-disruptively in the meter, for my ears. But I can see how it might not technically fit 04:32:37 mhm 04:32:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:34:13 -!- augur has joined. 04:40:32 afaik "idea" isn't germanic native 04:40:56 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 04:43:19 So close to finishing stage 32 04:43:49 55 is DEATH 04:43:56 LIQUID DEATH 04:45:17 madbr: afaik it's greek 04:49:02 DANG IT 04:49:10 Just got the last green dot on 32 and died 04:50:07 No flash = No Dot Action 2. :( 04:50:10 The fun thing is that the part that looks hardest is incredibly easy 04:51:22 CLEAR! ! ! 04:51:37 madbr: Yeah, but this is English. 04:51:44 madbr: We despise native words. 04:51:47 cpressey: And thus no purpose in life. 04:52:26 madbr: To the point of having a non-native *pronoun*. 04:54:16 oh? :) 04:54:19 which one 04:54:43 "they" is from Old Norse, rather than Old English. 04:57:03 33 was annoying 04:57:56 Is 34 supposed to be doable? 04:58:49 ... 04:58:51 As is "are". 05:00:40 and "am" iirc 05:01:30 Nope, that's from Old English. 05:01:40 Obvious cognate with Old Norse, though. 05:01:40 IF YOU SAY SO 05:13:18 alise, I see absolutely no way to travel down the staircase of 34 05:13:38 Sgeo: Uhh, screenshot me up. I forget. 05:13:59 It's annoying to post screenshots 05:14:11 imgur.com 05:14:17 ...I know about it 05:14:22 It's what's before that's annoying 05:14:26 Remember, I'm on Windows 05:14:32 alt+printscr 05:14:33 mspaint 05:14:34 ctrl+v 05:14:35 save 05:14:36 png 05:14:36 Yes 05:14:36 foo 05:14:37 imgur.com 05:14:39 It's annoying 05:14:48 Fine, I'll do all the work for you as well as telling you how to do it. 05:14:51 I am too kind ... 05:15:11 No, I want a screenshot program that automatically uploads to imgur 05:15:18 Sgeo: protip 05:15:19 it's easy 05:15:58 Sgeo: another tip: Higher is better. 05:16:06 Another tip: Control is unnecessary. 05:16:24 I kind of revealed that a bunch of people from another channel are the new people in #falcon 05:16:25 Huh. "Modern Indo-European". 05:16:31 Now one person's asking me from where 05:16:40 Don't know if I should reveal it or not 05:16:43 alise, um 05:16:52 I'd not reveal. 05:16:54 Start with reconstructed Proto-Indo-European, specify enough of it to make it an actual language. 05:16:54 If I jump before the staircase, I die 05:16:55 We don't need those people :P 05:16:58 Sgeo: So don't jump. 05:17:16 If I don't jump, I die 05:17:24 Unless maybe if I start on that elevated thingy and 05:18:34 alise, ty 05:18:39 Now I died on that lone block 05:19:44 Out of time 05:20:51 It's easy 05:20:54 :P 05:21:06 Need to kill old habits 05:21:50 C L E A R ! ! ! 05:28:33 -!- calamari has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:34:46 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:35:12 -!- augur has joined. 05:40:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:47:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:02:36 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716]). 06:51:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:51:17 -!- augur has joined. 06:56:49 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 07:08:58 105 requires a bit of thought 07:10:03 -!- comex has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 07:11:03 -!- comex has joined. 07:13:12 -!- cheater00 has joined. 07:13:43 Sgeo: I just tried writing my first Falcon program, and it doesn't even *work*. 07:14:17 This language is fascinatingly bad. 07:14:20 hmm? 07:14:30 Oh, Falcon, not Factor 07:14:39 Oh yes. NOT Factor. 07:15:18 http://www.falconpl.org/index.ftd?page_id=sitewiki&prj_id=_falcon_site&sid=wiki&pwid=Code+Snippets&wid=snippet%3Apicker <-- the first program there, what would you expect it to output? 89, maybe? 07:15:41 It outputs '1'. 07:17:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:29:54 I don't know how well it works, or how good it is. 07:30:55 But it does have some good features, such as metacompilation and prototype OOP. 07:34:39 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:40:10 I would probably use a different program language 07:46:42 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:56:30 -!- Nomz has joined. 07:57:16 Sum 1 here ????? 07:57:50 I didn't get n e reply frmm n e 1 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:25 -!- Nomz has left (?). 08:03:26 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:07:16 -!- Zuu has joined. 08:07:16 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 08:07:16 -!- Zuu has joined. 08:33:33 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:42:32 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:01:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:13:43 18:44:14 clearly INTERCAL is no match for haskell's reverse state monad ← I must see this. 09:18:06 OK, I cannot for the life of me tell how it works. 09:25:37 I mean, the let statement is completely insane. 09:39:41 Aw, I missed out on the cheese discussion. 09:43:23 19:59:54 pikhq: Uh, around the same age. ← My school did it at around 11 or 12 for the top set, although it was pretty trivial. 09:51:17 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:59:40 "Falcon is a small, fast and powerful embeddable programming language." 09:59:52 Evidently they are using some odd definition of "small". 10:06:15 My god, I have it! 10:06:26 They're trying to make a language bigger than Common Lisp! 10:07:14 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 10:11:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 10:17:27 annoying, it seems I have constructive interference of the noise from my computer and my monitor. Causing a very annoying high pitched tone exactly where it is most comfortable to sit. Moving head a few cm in any direction removes the noise. Turning off monitor removes it. But it isn't there when listening close to the monitor when it is turned on. 10:29:03 -!- tombom has joined. 10:30:34 -!- cheater99 has joined. 11:12:16 -!- kar8nga has joined. 11:12:18 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:58:49 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:04:00 I have come to the conclusion that brainfuck is not an esoteric language; it is well known and somewhat popular. The only thing that can define it as esoteric, as of now, is its being of a turing tarpit. However, many non-esoteric languages are also turing tarpits - such as BASIC, Bash, and PHP. 12:04:05 (sarcasm) 12:19:51 PHP is turing tarpit?? 12:23:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_UNIX-HATERS_Handbook 12:23:17 It is now. 12:23:25 lol, it was almost like Windows for them 12:24:04 lol 12:24:39 "3 Documentation? What Documentation?" 12:24:57 i can assign almost every chapter to recent MS Windows systems 12:25:16 Windows XP is still my favorite OS 12:25:45 aside from the lack of inter-process comunication, and driver hell, I haven't had a single problem with the OS itself. 12:26:01 mhm 12:26:05 Not counting the lack of DX10/11. 12:26:08 i also used it for a long time 12:26:28 Also not counting the awful Luna theme. 12:26:28 but then my computers had more cores and RAM than XP can handle 12:26:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:26:53 I ran it on a 2 ghz machien with 2 GB RAM, and an ati x1500. 12:26:57 machine* 12:29:14 * Phantom_Hoover decides he hates the UHH purely on the basis of its front cover. 12:29:40 Good points aren't something that you throw away because of their tone and source. 12:30:23 They overlaid black text on a black-and-white image. 12:30:28 They should DIE. 12:31:01 hehehe 12:36:21 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:37:09 -!- nooga has joined. 12:43:37 uugh enumerators 12:48:38 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 12:54:39 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 13:10:57 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:46:23 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 14:47:56 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:04:57 fungot, 15:04:57 Phantom_Hoover: then it was that the text was indeed in english. 15:05:06 NOOOO 15:19:28 -!- alise has joined. 15:26:25 * Phantom_Hoover is now of the opinion that Turkish Star Wars is far funnier than Plan 9. 15:34:42 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:34:58 Now I have written a "munching squares" program for BytePusher. 15:48:45 * Phantom_Hoover munches squares 15:51:06 It is much shorter than the other two programs. 15:51:43 This program is 3073 bytes long. The scrolling logo is 100608 bytes long. The keyboard test is 130558 bytes long. 15:52:52 See the screenshot on the wiki page for BytePusher 16:04:17 (There is a article about munching squares on Wikipedia) 16:04:18 09:53 < OmniMancer> from what I read in the logs these people have been locked in a closet with a small set of very pure langauges all their lives and know nothing of the real world 16:04:41 Well, that is kind of true 16:04:59 cpressey: from #falcon? 16:05:05 Yep. 16:05:16 Is jonnymind there? 16:05:20 Yep. 16:05:22 Darn, yes. So he can ban me. 16:05:45 Phantom_Hoover: has the discussion been relatively civil? 16:05:47 before this 16:06:08 Well, jonnymind wasn't there until just before I left. 16:06:17 cpressey: ^? 16:06:24 cpressey: has it been? 16:07:05 OmniMancer was exasperated, but that was the extent of it. 16:09:30 Example of PUSHEM code: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/Munching_Squares.pushem 16:10:18 cpressey: Tell me what the replies are :-) 16:10:20 -!- sftp has joined. 16:10:30 zzo38: that's cool 16:11:34 alise: Can you understand this code? 16:11:46 zzo38: no, but i haven't tried 16:13:25 Why don't you try? 16:14:58 i might another time 16:15:00 it's quite long 16:15:43 OK 16:19:41 alise, bah, I wanted to see an epic debate. 16:19:58 Let's leave those retards alone. :D 16:20:02 They're no fun. 16:39:18 -!- derdon has joined. 16:57:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:57:22 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:00:59 In 1996, Forbes went to work for Microsoft,[1] and Microsoft's cabinet archiver was enhanced to include the LZX compression method. Improvements included a variable search window size; Amiga LZX was fixed to 64kB, Microsoft LZX could range on powers of two between 32 and 2048 kilobytes. A special preprocessor was added to detect Intel 80x86 "CALL" instructions, converting their operands from relative addressing to absolute addressing, thus calls to the sam 17:00:59 e location resulted in repeated strings that the compressor could match, improving compression of 80x86 binary code. 17:04:53 alise: Well, I'm out of there, now. I kept it civil. 17:13:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:20:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 17:21:13 * Phantom_Hoover_ despairs at Coq's coinduction. 17:22:10 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 17:25:02 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:25:13 -!- yiyus has joined. 17:25:32 I mean, I just want to define the nats as a coinductive stream! 17:27:08 Uhh, why? 17:27:20 For the lulz! 17:27:29 Doesn't sound hard. 17:28:50 I tried defining stream and smap appropriately, then defining the nats as cons 0 (smap S nats), but that violates one of the restrictions. 17:30:54 I suspect it's that smap isn't a constructor of stream, but I might be wrong. 17:34:47 I suggest defining your own types. 17:34:50 That usually works. 17:34:52 Oh, wait, I see. 17:35:00 Just do it manually. 17:37:02 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 17:38:11 Do what manually? 17:38:29 write your own corecursive thing directly 17:38:32 rather than calling smap 17:39:26 How does that work..? 17:42:17 I can't really see how... 17:44:29 I mean, you presumably need to use a corecursive function to map S on a stream, and then we're back at square 1. 17:45:29 Unless there's a Super Ultra Clever way of doing it. 17:45:51 -!- cheater99 has joined. 17:48:15 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 17:53:00 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:54:12 alise, name a function over the complexes right now. 17:54:33 Phantom_Hoover_: Uh, argument. 17:54:46 Addition. :P 17:55:01 By "over the complexes" I mean having type C → C 17:55:58 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:57:28 This is probably an abuse of notation, but whatever. 17:57:39 alise, try again? 17:58:07 Addition where you pack the two together. 17:58:40 Phantom_Hoover_: Do you mean having type C -> C but *not* type R -> R or Z -> Z ? 17:58:40 But, uh, conjugate. 17:58:50 Cuz, like, yeah. Addition. 17:58:52 Z? 17:58:58 Sgeo: Integers 17:59:00 Ah 17:59:06 Sgeo, you don't know what Z is? 17:59:11 O.o 17:59:17 >.> 17:59:23 I do now. And I did once. 17:59:24 It's my fault for not Blackboard Bold'ing it. 17:59:53 But what would be interesting about having... actually, no 17:59:57 alise, it should have interesting properties when an image is transformed with it. 18:00:02 R->R but not Z->Z would also be interesting 18:00:09 Phantom_Hoover_: Not really. 18:00:21 Phantom_Hoover_, multiply by i? 18:00:29 Well, that 18:00:36 that's not _that_ interesting 18:00:41 Sgeo, do you know how boring that is? 18:00:42 Just rotation, I think 18:00:56 "Rotate by 90°" 18:01:35 Phantom_Hoover_: e^x? 18:01:49 alise, been done. 18:01:58 Phantom_Hoover_, pics? 18:01:59 * Phantom_Hoover_ wonders if tan has. 18:02:06 Phantom_Hoover_: What does e^x produce for images? 18:02:14 Also, pi^. :P 18:03:17 alise, SRoMG does this a lot, and I'm wondering what else can be tried. 18:04:13 Please stop using that incomprehensible abbreviation. 18:04:56 Square Root of Minus Garfield? 18:04:57 But typing "Square Root of Minus Garfield" goes contrary to my laziness! 18:05:13 cpressey: yes 18:05:13 cpressey, part of the Mezzacottapeligo. 18:05:18 Arcsin(Garfield) is awesome 18:05:20 Sin(Garfield) too 18:05:32 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=433 18:05:34 Indeed. 18:05:35 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=473 18:05:39 But what else can we do? 18:05:39 (for cpressey) 18:05:47 Phantom_Hoover_: i^x? :PPP 18:06:17 Complex exponentiation still hurts my brain. 18:06:19 :pppppppppp 18:06:39 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=415 log. Awesome! 18:06:56 (http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=400 exp) 18:07:23 Wow, there's 1 Over Garfield. 18:07:23 * Phantom_Hoover_ quite liked Garfield^-1 centred on Garfield's thought bubble. 18:07:26 And it is http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=407 18:07:29 FUCKING DISTURBING 18:08:13 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=388 18:08:21 NOT SURE WHAT TO MAKE OF THIS CRAZY 18:08:39 "Complex little creatures, aren't they?" http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=156 18:08:53 Wow. Cube root is beautiful. http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=380 18:09:40 You could satarize these strips with a 1 + Garfield 18:10:22 Firstly, not a word. 18:10:30 Secondly, it's already a loving parody of Garfield Minus Garfield. 18:10:51 Phantom_Hoover_: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=368 18:10:52 DEAR GOD 18:11:03 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=351 fffff 18:11:34 Is it? It's more an experimental toying with Garfield. 18:11:34 And there's a Fourier transform of Garfield. 18:11:39 As well as a sort of Garfield. 18:12:02 Phantom_Hoover_: But it is inspired by, at least. 18:12:04 alise, now read through all the Mezzacotta strips 18:12:33 no. 18:12:55 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:13:12 Sgeo, OLD 18:13:27 -!- yiyus has joined. 18:13:28 * Phantom_Hoover_ wonders whether to start on Lightning Made of Owls. 18:14:16 Phantom_Hoover_: Link me to the FFT? 18:14:19 Er, FT. 18:14:33 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=43 18:14:48 By DMM himself. 18:16:23 Wow. 18:16:28 http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/?comic=26 polar cöordinate transformed. 18:16:44 Diaeresis fail. 18:17:01 Oops. Indeëd. 18:17:37 Diaeresis fail. 18:18:03 Deliberate that time. 18:18:50 -!- cheater99 has joined. 18:21:03 *Oöps. 18:21:42 My right ear's working again! 18:24:28 -!- nooga has joined. 18:24:48 i use Y Windowing System 18:26:20 that exists 18:26:58 i wonder... why 18:27:07 Wait. I can say "asshole" on Fark? 18:28:33 You can say asshole any time. 18:28:36 nooga: because X is awful 18:28:52 ais523: My idea about while loops an TCL (I don't know if you recall it; doesn't really matter) did not turn out to be interesting, 18:29:04 I don't 18:29:39 Take the language of while programs. Add some kind of homoiconicity so that you can build programs from inside it. Enforce the rule that inside each while loop, the program must re-define the meaning of "while". 18:29:46 alise, I can't say "fuck" on Fark 18:29:49 It turns it to "Fark" 18:30:02 ais523: you don't what? 18:30:07 Sgeo: Fark is utter crap, anyway. 18:30:30 alise: pr. don't recall my offhand remark about my silly idea 18:30:35 alise: I don't remember cpressey's idea about while loops and TCL 18:30:42 cpressey: ah 18:30:50 TCL as in Tcl/Tk? 18:30:54 Anyway, there it is, if anyone wants it. 18:31:12 alise: Yes. Someone was answering someone else's question about TCL here at the time. 18:31:28 Oh, I think ais523 was playing with expect, that's why. 18:31:40 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:31:52 yep, I was 18:32:41 alise: that's true 18:32:57 i was wondering if there's something that could replace X in linux 18:33:06 but i guess there isn't 18:33:55 You can run GTK+ stuff in DirectFB, that's sort of replacing X, but I don't know why anyone would. 18:34:29 let's wait for open Aqua reimplementation 18:35:39 it's Quartz 18:35:40 not Aqua 18:35:42 that you care about 18:36:02 and besides, it's just Display Postscript 18:36:03 but with PDFs 18:36:29 someone is working on some X-compatible replacement minimal thing i think 18:36:32 dunno if it's any good 18:36:36 Squeak and Pharo have some framebuffer thingy 18:36:42 Wayland 18:36:43 I think' 18:36:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayland_(display_server) 18:37:05 * cpressey just realized that means Macs are running a crippled monster forthoid in their display systems. 18:37:09 Shweet. 18:37:14 dunno if it's actually X-compatible 18:37:22 cpressey: Nothin' wrong with PDF. 18:37:28 PostScript is cool, and PDF is just non-TC binary PostScript. 18:37:42 alise: Thus, forthoid. 18:37:47 But not a crippled monster :P 18:38:03 Is Factor a forthoid? 18:38:09 Besides, you used to be able to screenshot to PDF and windows were layers and shit. 18:38:11 There's also XDirectFB, which can put X windows into a DirectFB screen. (Don't know how compatible that is either.) 18:38:16 And it would scale (although a lot of graphics are bitmaps) 18:38:17 It was cool 18:38:21 Dunno if you still can 18:38:25 (It used to be the default screenshot format) 18:38:31 Well. non-TC <-> crippled. Monster, referring to some of the interestingness that PS layered in. 18:39:22 Sgeo: I thought that's obvious? Unless you get pedantic. 18:39:50 Not really. 18:39:54 Factor is a Joyoid. 18:39:56 So all concatenative languages are "forthoids"? What's the point of the term "forthoid" then 18:39:59 Ah 18:40:07 It was more of a Forthoid to begin with. 18:40:16 cpressey, non-TC <-> crippled? 18:40:18 Wha? 18:40:22 But now with quotations and the like it's an imperative Joy, rather than a functional Forth. 18:40:24 I thought you were Practical... 18:41:00 * cpressey borrows oerjan's palm frond and swats Phantom_Hoover_ -----###### 18:41:03 Of course non-TC <-> crippled 18:41:07 And HAHAHA @ cpressey being practical 18:41:19 Make a music scale (4/8,5/8,6/8,7/8,8/8) 18:41:39 alise, so all programs are crippled, then? 18:41:41 Or, make a scale (3/6,4/6,5/6,6/6) 18:41:54 If cpressey invented Befunge-93 today, it wouldn't have a defined ASCII representation, it would be based on Minkowski space, it would have only 7 instructions, and the playfield would be 80 x infinity for some mathematical reason. 18:42:05 Or rather, the defined ASCII representation would be crazy and probably 1D. 18:42:15 At least, that's what the little copy of cpressey in my head would do. 18:43:04 Oh? I misconceived, then. 18:43:04 That would be... close. Ish. 18:43:20 Well, we'll never know. 18:43:39 cpressey: And it would only be arguably computable. :P 18:44:18 Its semantics would certainly not depend so unspeakably on those of C, that's for sure. 18:44:42 yoin 18:44:50 Phantom_Hoover_: Should I even ask what "Practical" with a capital P means to you? 18:45:06 Cuz that's, uh, a bit creepy to see. 18:45:28 Like identifying oneself as a Bright, or something. 18:46:04 now 18:46:44 if i don't come back after reboot that means i borked my partition table 18:46:49 brb 18:46:50 Hmm, ByteByteJump is {**(pc+1) = **pc; pc = *(pc+2)}. Is {**(pc+1) = **pc; pc = **pc} TC? 18:47:12 "brbuibmpt" 18:47:28 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 18:49:02 alise: uhhhhhhh 18:49:44 cpressey: Yes? 18:49:50 pc is program counter, of course. 18:49:51 alise: I think it is 18:50:05 cpressey: See, if I want to compete with BytePusher, I have to come up with my own, totally more awesome OISC. 18:50:06 But maybe not 18:50:13 And that has only two operands, making it INSTANTLY SUPERIOR. 18:50:48 I think it is, because I think you can encode SMETANA in it, but my brain isn't really working 18:51:34 Now I think it's not 18:51:45 Shows you how good I am at thi 18:51:48 *this. 18:52:20 AR CH Æ OL OG Y 18:52:29 Oh btw, that P != NP proof was debunked, wasn't it? 18:52:36 Was it? 18:52:45 I heerd rumours, is all. 18:52:52 An August 2010 claim by Vinay Deolalikar, a researcher at HP Labs, received heavy Internet and press attention after being initially described as "seem[ing] to be a relatively serious attempt" by two leading specialists. The proof has been reviewed publicly by academics,[22] and it was found to contain irreparable conceptual-level errors as well as a number of concrete errors and flaws.[23] 18:52:53 Yes. 18:53:17 Irreparable conceptual errors! 18:55:36 * Phantom_Hoover_ wonders if you can nicely define division using coinductive nats in Coq. 18:55:49 I think {**pc = **(pc+1); pc = **(pc+1)} is a better instruction. 18:55:52 * alise codes up a VM to play with it 18:57:34 Hmm, an infinite loop is... 18:57:42 So that infinity is S infinity, and hence div n 0 = infinity. 18:58:01 X: DO (X+1) X 18:58:04 I think. 18:58:09 Right? 18:58:59 64K of RAM should be enough for everyone 18:59:03 *everyone. 18:59:49 alise: It depend what you do 19:00:03 For a one instruction computer, it might not be enough for large programs 19:01:13 Hey, ByteByteJump has a major flaw. 19:01:22 The program counter is not exposed in memory. 19:01:47 And so jumps are impossible/ 19:01:52 *? 19:02:18 alise: Is that a flaw? I programmed a BytePusher program, with conditional jumps 19:02:55 Since it has no calculation built-in, you have to use tables, and that makes my "munching squares" program size 3K (plus one byte). 19:03:21 Is {*pc = m[*pc] = m[*pc + 1]} valid C? 19:03:25 That assignment to *pc makes me think not. 19:03:39 alise: yes, although not valid portable C 19:03:45 ais523: meaning? 19:03:53 it's conforming C because I know of at least one C compiler that accepts it, given an appopriate definition for PC 19:03:59 and on which an appropriate definition is actually possible 19:04:06 bullshit 19:04:06 it's UB 19:04:16 The question, is, is it portable and properly defined? 19:04:16 alise: a program can contain UB and be conforming 19:04:21 Of course it is a valid C code, though 19:04:23 what? 19:04:36 "conforming C" means "accepted by at least one C compiler", according to the standard 19:04:42 Any proper C compiler should compile it (as long as you put the semicolon in where it belongs) 19:04:42 it does? 19:04:52 so you can just choose an arbitrary compiler that happens to define the particular UB you're using 19:04:55 ais523, sure about that? I thought it meant following standard 19:04:59 "strictly conforming" is what it needs to be accepted by all 19:05:01 ah 19:05:16 ais523, what if all happens to implement that UB the same way? 19:05:23 that seems unlikely 19:05:35 ais523, true, but would it be strictly conforming then? 19:05:39 no 19:05:46 hm 19:06:06 as it's defined as "conforming + no UB, unspecified behaviour never matters, implementation-defined behaviour never matters" 19:06:52 ais523, hm it could still end up strange if _all_ implementations misimplements a given part 19:07:03 which means there is no compiler accepting the program 19:07:03 then there are no implementatiosn 19:07:07 *implementations 19:07:11 ais523, indeed 19:07:28 Vorpal: you might be interesting to know that the C standard doesn't define behaviour of the programs output by a compiler 19:07:32 ais523, and no program could ever be conforming 19:07:35 fread(x, N, ...) will always read N if the stream has at least N bytes in it, right? 19:07:37 a compiler can just not produce an executable and still be strictly conforming 19:07:38 ais523, ha 19:07:55 ais523, hehe... 19:08:10 alise: no, it can return a lower value if there will eventually be N bytes in the stream but they can't be retrieved immediately for some reason 19:08:36 ais523: this is a file 19:08:37 so meh 19:08:50 the most common reason by far is network timeouts (say NFS), but there are others 19:09:05 but on a regular, local file? 19:09:08 this is just a quick hack, so 19:09:21 for a quick hack, as long as your OS isn't doing some sort of crazy buffering you'll befine 19:09:23 *be fine 19:09:36 ais523, that depend on mount options for the nfs fs in question 19:09:51 I mean, I reimplemented awk in about 10 lines for a quick hack this mornign 19:10:09 of course it wouldn't work for general awk files, but it's good enough for processing autoconf output on a system that doesn't have awk 19:10:15 ais523, I'm pretty sure (due to having used them) that there are mount options for nfs that makes it timeout instead of stall forever 19:10:39 Vorpal: I tend to think in terms of "x can do that" rather than "x does do that" 19:11:04 http://pastie.org/1138253.txt?key=4fz7yhgu7qu0jczaxsla ;; that's the kind of instruction loop I like. 19:11:06 hm okay 19:11:09 for C programming, you know "under circumstances x, y can go wrong" and don't care about knowing the exact details of x 19:12:06 things can go strange for sshfs (fuse based) too. If a file is open it won't time out and unmount if network is lost. Sometimes. 19:12:45 http://pastie.org/1138253.txt?key=4fz7yhgu7qu0jczaxsla 19:12:46 http://pastie.org/1138256.txt 19:12:54 the second of these is likely to be more efficient, right? 19:13:24 Vorpal: reading from a network socket, if read's argument is larger than the packet size then it nearly always returns one packet rather than the amount you specified 19:13:27 thus you have read returning low then 19:13:44 ais523, well yes 19:14:03 ais523, also EOF 19:14:26 you can't read EOF from an unclosed network socket, unless there's an error 19:14:40 alise, GAS‽ I thought you had taste! 19:14:44 well obviously, I meant for streams and standard input 19:15:01 ais523, in the standard input case you could get a "fake" EOF so to speak, from ctrl-d 19:15:03 Phantom_Hoover_: I didn't write it, dude, gcc and clang did. 19:15:28 alise, profile them 19:15:33 alise, best way to find out 19:16:51 the "mov %edx, %edx" seems to do nothing 19:17:07 I mean, that sort of thing is sometimes useful to set flags, but it doesn't seem to actually look at the flags afterwards 19:17:36 unless the m() refers to a flag; I don't understand the syntax 19:18:26 mov doesn't set flags anyway. 19:18:31 ais523, I presume m is a variable from elsewhere 19:18:32 hmm 19:18:36 with -Os it omits that instruction 19:18:37 that is the only way that makes sense 19:18:45 er, wait no 19:18:47 http://pastie.org/1138256.txt 19:18:49 is obviously better, I think 19:18:53 fizzie: ah, am I muddling x86 with other asms? 19:19:03 in 6502, it sets the zero flag, although not the others 19:19:06 m is a variable from elsewhere 19:19:25 http://pastie.org/1138256.txt in clang's output it is just: 19:19:31 vm: 19:19:34 word m[ram_words]; 19:19:53 hmm 19:19:58 word m[ram_words] = {load_addr}; 19:20:01 would this initialise the rest to 0? 19:20:17 alise, that looks like llvm asm 19:20:28 What does? 19:20:34 alise, the word stuff 19:20:41 that's just my #define for int32_t 19:20:46 Phantom_Hoover_: your interrobangs annoy me so much I just set my IRC client to replace interrobangs with normal question marks 19:20:47 load_addr is 1 19:20:49 http://pastie.org/1138256.txt in clang's output it is just: 19:20:49 vm: 19:20:49 word m[ram_words]; 19:20:51 alise, eh? 19:21:00 ............ 19:21:17 alise, well it doesn't make sense 19:21:25 i'm not talking to you 19:21:33 still doesn't make sense though 19:21:49 hmm actually it is m: 19:22:02 ais523, why do the interrobangs annoy you? 19:22:19 cool it segfaults 19:22:21 because it's very rarely used correctly 19:22:37 ais523, it is used to replace !? and/or ?! afaik? 19:22:38 it wasn't then, really, for instance 19:22:41 ais523: I think the usual thing to do is to set flags on arithmetics, not movs, but I really haven't made a survey on this. (My handy single-page messy 6502 instruction chart says LDA/LDX/LDY set both N and Z.) 19:22:47 Vorpal: yes, and I dislike the punctuation generally 19:23:12 ais523, well, he could just switch to use !? or !? then. Are you going to filter that as well? 19:23:16 exclamations are generally annoying 19:23:32 I mean, if someone came in here and ended all their sentences with !, we'd get annoyed quickly 19:23:33 ais523: No they're not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 19:23:39 an interrobang is just another sort of exclamation 19:23:40 Would we! I don't think we would! 19:23:45 I think we would like it! 19:24:03 alise: it's getting on my nerves already... 19:24:16 Some people! 19:24:19 Okay, I'll stop now. 19:24:33 ais523, yes. But there are reasons to use it. Like: "wow, some quick calculation shows that that the probability for that coincidence is 1 of 10^23!" or similar 19:24:36 bbl food 19:24:52 no, that implies 10 to the 23 factorial to me 19:27:03 Cool, the VM uses 100% of a CPU for its infinite loop. 19:29:46 Gah, how can it segfault? 19:29:51 for (;;) { 19:29:52 m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1]; 19:29:52 m[0] = x; 19:29:52 } 19:29:55 It's all unsigned. 19:29:59 Oh wait, I said a 16-bit machine. Heh. 19:30:13 And coded my thing wrong. 19:31:42 It no worky. 19:32:17 Blah, cpressey, you implement this machine. 19:34:10 And tell me why chr(x&256) + chr(x>>8) doesn't work. 19:34:32 Oops, 19:34:34 *Oops. 19:34:37 & 255 it should be! 19:35:02 Wait, this depends on endianness. 19:35:03 Eurgh! 19:35:16 cpressey: RELIEVE THE PAIN 19:35:21 alise: STOP USING C 19:35:27 * Sgeo puts alise to sleep 19:35:28 Sorry, was away, just came back. 19:35:30 cpressey: BUT IT'S A LOW-LEVEL VM MACHINE THING 19:35:41 Use Forth for low-level stuff! 19:36:11 Haskell first. THEN C. That's my opinion, anyway, not that I always follow it. 19:37:14 cpressey: Okay. Do it in Haskell then. 19:39:13 You could always do it with liberal use of monads. 19:39:28 Look at his smallness 19:39:33 Compared to my tallness 19:39:37 My porcelain doll-ness 19:39:45 My port-in-a-squall-ness 19:39:48 < ais523> I mean, I reimplemented awk in about 10 lines for a quick hack this mornign 19:39:57 ais523: In what language? C?? 19:40:00 shellscript 19:40:07 but I cheated and used a2p 19:40:17 My Kids-in-the-Hall-ness / My Pink-Floyd's-"The-Wall"-ness / My just all in all-ness 19:40:21 the other lines were working around bugs in a2p 19:40:24 My wonderful me-ness 19:40:26 and parsing arguments 19:40:28 My hammer the pe--- 19:40:33 ople can tell 19:40:50 Sorry about spamminess 19:42:16 no, that implies 10 to the 23 factorial to me <-- hm? 19:42:26 the 10^23! 19:42:48 ais523, "1 out of 10^23" means "pretty unlikely" to me in that context 19:43:18 Vorpal demonstrates new heights of reading comprehension. 19:43:23 He could get a Ph.D. in it at this rate. 19:43:59 Sgeo: You are forgiven. But only if you are drunk. 19:44:07 eeep 19:44:09 I'm not 19:44:12 Tired though 19:44:27 OK, I'll let "tired" go. THIS time. 19:45:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:45:22 alise, oh right, now I get what he meant 19:45:26 Actually, Haskell is a pain 19:45:34 anyway, my point was "!" is useful in some cases 19:45:36 (for something as simple and array-y as this) 19:45:49 * cpressey wants to use Python. 19:45:52 Yes, it's useful if you want to speak about fractionals. 19:45:52 * cpressey stops himself. 19:45:57 I should make an esolang that uses interrobang in it's syntax... 19:45:57 hm 19:46:22 -!- derdon has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:46:35 Remember to make it do some sort of combination of ? and !. 19:46:47 fizzie, well yes 19:46:57 Please don't make it isomorphic (if that's the term) to BF 19:47:19 fizzie, or maybe it should be like intercals over-strike stuff 19:47:23 cpressey: 19:47:25 void vm() 19:47:25 { 19:47:25 word x; 19:47:25 for (;;) { 19:47:26 m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1]; 19:47:28 m[0] = x; 19:47:30 } 19:47:32 } 19:47:34 16-bit values, full 16-bit memory 19:47:36 fizzie, as in either the unicode code point, or !? are allowed 19:47:40 it loads a raw memory image 19:47:43 (two bytes to the value) 19:47:47 fizzie, like it does for ." 19:47:50 initial m[0] is assigned by the memory file 19:48:13 a program that takes a bunch of integers separated by whitespace and spits out a \0-padded memory image plus the first value being "1" to point to the first number entered would be cool too 19:48:19 (to pave the way for an assembler) 19:48:23 PROCEED, SLAVE 19:48:51 Vorpal: ITRALCEN or whatever it was called was going to use interrobang for its metaevaluation stuff. 19:48:58 ^scramble INTERCAL 19:48:58 ITRALCEN 19:49:02 ITRALCEN. 19:49:10 alise, ah 19:49:16 alise, sounds cool 19:49:19 of course, I never actually ended up doing it. 19:49:23 Vorpal: it was 19:49:28 almost all the INTERCAL language was implemented using it 19:49:30 theoretically 19:49:31 alise, ah, right, it was you who made the idea up 19:49:36 I was about to ask 19:49:46 it was going to accept ?! too 19:49:48 alise: http://pastie.org/1138303 19:49:48 in the same way 19:49:54 fwiw 19:49:56 alise, heh 19:50:02 cpressey: Well /that/ bit is the easy part. 19:50:31 -!- nooga has joined. 19:50:32 alise: Well, you asked. 19:50:38 :P 19:50:43 cpressey, why lua? 19:50:43 i'm having wild problems with restoring ext3 partition 19:50:54 Vorpal: Haskell lost. Then Python lost. 19:50:59 * cpressey smacks forehead 19:51:07 Shoulda done it in Falcon or R! 19:51:09 -!- derdon has joined. 19:51:11 cpressey, and the problem you are trying to solve is? 19:51:25 lua is nice, besides the syntax 19:51:29 cpressey, DO IT IN FALCON 19:51:33 Vorpal is doing a great imitation of ignoring me while proving he isn't 19:51:38 it looks like pascalified javascript 19:52:32 Phantom_Hoover_: Damn, I would have to look up how they do arrays. 19:52:44 alise, um? am I ignoring you? 19:52:56 I picked Lua because I knew I could just start using m as if it was an array, and it would be. 19:53:27 Vorpal: No, but you asked what cpressey was doing just after I FORCED him to do it. (Well, not exactly that.) 19:54:10 alise, I was wondering what the goal of the program was. That function didn't look like it was a complete program to me 19:54:34 It's called an esolang. 19:54:37 Vorpal: It's alise's putative successor to ByteByteJump. 19:54:40 The definedness of "m[m[0]] = x = m[m[0] + 1];" looks unclear, but perhaps this was already spoken about (I'm not really following the discussion here). 19:54:45 Although his program is, uh, incomplete. 19:54:51 fizzie: Huh, surely /that/'s ok? 19:54:53 I guess not. 19:55:00 If m[0] == 0, especially. 19:55:00 Wait, why would it not be? 19:55:10 alise, indeed. No input or output of any kind. Pretty useless as it is. Which is why I asked 19:55:15 but VM I guess then 19:55:27 Vorpal: It's a reference implementation. 19:55:32 right 19:55:45 I coded the /interesting/ part of the semantics. 19:55:46 alise, looks OISCy? 19:55:49 I'm basically trying to usurp BytePusher in awesomeness. 19:55:51 Vorpal: Yes. 19:56:23 A B means "*A = *B; jump to address B" 19:57:44 -!- tombom has joined. 19:57:52 alise, is there any IO or such (possibly by using memory mapped IO registers or similar)? 19:58:17 Vorpal: In a computer, yes. In the architecture, no. 19:58:25 Oh, and memory location 0 is the program counter, of course. 19:58:40 hm 19:58:42 Jumping to 0 is *quite* fun, in the "HOW DOES THIS WORK" sense. 19:58:48 alise, and this is not a computerish implementation? 19:58:51 The first operand of your first instruction becomes a second one. 19:58:55 Vorpal: It's just the basis for one. 19:59:12 The actual computer will be like BytePusher but more awesome. A proper sound chip rather than just raw PCM. 19:59:19 Synthesiser, that is. 19:59:26 All done memory-mapped, naturally. 19:59:31 alise, does the architecture reserve some specific memory addresses for such usage? To prevent a situation where different implementations put them in completely different areas 19:59:46 Ah, the world of esoputers. 19:59:54 No. ARM and Z80 don't tell you what the computer should look like either. 20:00:03 They're ISAs; the rest is up to the computer architecture. 20:00:23 hm. Are you going to define such an architecture as well? 20:00:38 alise: I'm not even sure about the "m[m[0]] = x;" part. There's no additional sequence points, and if m[0] == 0, you have a write to m[0], and a read from m[0], and you're only allowed to read the previous value "only to determine the value to be stored", which doesn't seem to be the case here. I don't think there's any rule that'd let you apply any "but m[0] *must* be read before the m[m[0]] write can know where it's writing to"; but there's a horribly long th 20:00:39 read about these and related points in comp.lang.c. 20:00:43 The actual computer will be like BytePusher but more awesome. A proper sound chip rather than just raw PCM. 20:00:43 Synthesiser, that is. 20:00:43 All done memory-mapped, naturally. 20:00:44 (Adding the "= m[m[0]+1]" bit makes it even less clear, though.) 20:01:00 fizzie: Blargh. 20:01:17 It's not a big deal, I can fix it. 20:01:27 Definitely want an in-memory PC though. 20:01:29 That shit is FUN. 20:01:47 "0 X" is an unconditional jump to X. :-) 20:02:01 since *X gets put in the program counter, but then it gets set to X 20:02:13 fizzie, in practise it seems tricky to be able to resolve the location of m[m[0]] before reading m[0] 20:02:32 Vorpal: Yes, well, that's you using logic again. 20:02:48 fizzie, but with the = m[m[0]+1] it is harder to know 20:03:29 fizzie: m[m[0]] is just **m. 20:03:32 fizzie, could have memory doing strange things like erasing m[m[0]] while reading m[m[0]+1]. For some sort of arcane memory 20:03:33 Which I'm pretty sure is valid, you know. 20:03:35 Er, no it's not. 20:03:39 It's *(m + *m). 20:03:42 Which I guess is more iffy. 20:03:44 flash? Though I doubt anyone uses that for main memory 20:03:51 But what if m is in 0? :-) 20:04:00 omg flash for core. 20:04:12 cpressey, yeah, presumably NOR then 20:04:13 That would be... sluggish 20:04:14 -!- derdon has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:04:23 cpressey, would be worse if NAND 20:04:27 And take a lot of power, relatively speaking 20:04:33 in fact I can't see how NAND could even work for it 20:04:39 -!- derdon has joined. 20:06:03 hm I wonder what type of microprocessor is used in a normal harddrive... 20:06:47 Would Marilyn vos Savant be a good fit for this channel? 20:06:50 Hypothetically? 20:07:17 -!- augur has joined. 20:07:50 she's annoying 20:08:00 hm I think my desktop has at least 5 processor cores, considering CPU, GPU, two harddrives, one dvd and one sound card. GPU probably consists of more than one in reality 20:08:21 probably because of her surname :) 20:08:28 (I know the sound card has a DSP, it's a SB Live 5.1 with that EMU10k DSP thingy) 20:09:11 Sgeo: ... are you *sure* you're not drunk? 20:09:28 Can she even program? 20:09:36 Unless someone drugged me with alcohol... 20:09:40 Has she done anything other than popularising Monty Hall and other simple problems and, at one point, having a very high IQ? 20:09:41 "A few months after the announcement by Andrew Wiles that he had proved Fermat's Last Theorem, vos Savant published her book The World's Most Famous Math Problem in October 1993.[15] The book surveys the history of Fermat's last theorem as well as other mathematical mysteries. Controversy came from the book's criticism of Wiles' proof; vos Savant was accused of misunderstanding mathematical induction, proof by contradiction, 20:10:22 Wait, was that the incorrect announcement, or the correct one? 20:10:29 Sgeo, what about other drugs than alcohol then? 20:10:35 "Her assertion that Wiles' proof should be rejected for its use of non-Euclidean geometry was especially contested." 20:10:38 Bad fit. 20:10:47 Vorpal, other drugs wouldn't make me drunk 20:10:53 cpressey: hahaahahaha 20:11:05 Vorpal: no, this is definitely alcohol or nothing 20:11:17 although at this level Sgeo should be having trouble typing with accuracy 20:11:26 also, 1993 would be the original 20:11:29 but clearly her criticism is bullshit 20:11:35 alise, hm 20:11:53 I remember when a girl IMed me with "I 20:11:59 "I'm aseunk" 20:12:10 Vorpal: 20:12:11 What if Marilyn von Savant is actually ALL OF US... man... 20:12:20 [universe changes] 20:12:27 WHY ARE THE WALLS BREATHING I BLAME WHOEVER DEVELOPS ACTIVEWORLDS 20:12:37 [universe changes] 20:12:38 ... 20:13:40 alise, heh 20:13:45 alise, stage 101 is fun 20:13:50 Sgeo: stop cheating 20:13:54 alise, yeah those are different drugs 20:14:04 Vorpal: CONGRATULATIONS YOU GOT THE JOKE 20:14:07 Oh, you've been dot-act-2-ing again? 20:14:10 alise, is it cheating if the code is given in the instructions? 20:14:22 Sgeo: what instructions? 20:14:24 i suppose not 20:14:27 what does it say? 20:14:36 Um 20:14:44 Use Google Translate 20:14:45 hold on 20:15:00 "The password "086-754" to enter, can play a bonus stage." 20:15:10 Bah 20:15:13 Complete 100 to get it 20:15:14 :| 20:15:18 Hmm? 20:15:29 It's 101-108 for a reason! :| 20:15:32 alise, but for all I know there could be some drug other than alcohol that gives similar symptoms. I mean, the phase-space of possible drugs is hardly small enough to be completely explored. 20:15:41 Gah, I can't recall how many stages I cleared; just that it was >90, <100. 20:15:44 alise, when I type in the code, I don't see 1-100 in the list 20:15:53 Just 101-108 20:15:58 Vorpal: afaik alcohol is fairly unique in its effects 20:16:04 Sgeo: yes, but they come after 100, obviously 20:16:08 fizzie: how do you do 55? 20:16:13 I cannot figure it out. 20:16:51 alise, is it proven that no future drug could give similar effects? Maybe some mad scientist gave Sgeo a sample of a new drug to test it out on him! 20:17:04 alise: Do you have that 1-100 code somewhere? I don't think I can manage to do 1-54 to see 55 for you. 20:17:16 fizzie: http://jayisgames.com/archives/2007/04/dot_action_2.php#walkthrough 20:17:19 has codes for every level 20:17:32 At least I dug it out of the swf myself back then. :p 20:17:35 Alcohol is chemically simpler than most drugs. From what I understand, it does what it does because your brain is busy "digesting" it. 20:18:12 As opposed to, say, psychoactives which bind to various neural receptors. 20:19:01 cpressey, hm okay 20:19:15 So, fwiw, I think it would be hard to come up with an "alcohol-alike" drug 20:19:34 alise: IIRC, you just need to hit the middle one of the three green blocks on the left, and keep pressing right; it'll keep flipping around, but it'll bounce from the above/below greens so that you can catch the blue. 20:19:36 right 20:19:55 fizzie: aha! 20:20:12 101 is really, really fun 20:20:38 cpressey, btw I remember a funny video showing the effects of various drugs and driving. (not using actual drugs of course) 20:20:42 It might take a few tries to work out right, it's not exactly a very straight-forward thing. 20:20:44 no clue where it was I saw it 20:20:50 And the only bonus level that I solved, iirc 20:21:02 Vorpal: I know which one you're talking about. 20:21:05 Relatively amusing. 20:21:15 alise, iirc lsd+driving was hilarious 20:21:22 alise, hm I think the video was in German? 20:21:25 yes 20:22:23 fizzie: which is the middle one? 20:22:48 ah, on the left 20:23:46 I _think_ I did 105 20:24:39 alise, cpressey: found it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHDeMMzkHrI 20:24:44 i did 55 woot 20:25:01 107 is just a race against the clock 20:25:33 "More specifically, ethanol acts in the central nervous system by binding to the GABA-A receptor, increasing the effects of the inhibitory neurotransmitter GABA (i.e. it is a positive allosteric modulator)[68]." 20:26:30 lsd+driving is suicide 20:26:48 108 is a tricky race against thge clock 20:27:08 nooga, most likely every one of those is suicide 20:27:16 mmm 20:27:23 to varying degree 20:27:31 marijuana is harmless i think 20:27:37 when it comes to driving 20:27:47 cannabis probably has the least effect 20:27:51 but then it has the least effect of everything 20:27:53 nooga, I don't think it was in the video though? Unless it's German name is very different 20:28:06 Well, the video isn't exactly true to real life... 20:28:12 alise, well of course 20:28:16 I don't think the primary effect of LSD is seeing a creepy bunny. 20:28:17 alise, it was supposed to be funny 20:28:21 alise, indeed. 20:28:48 on lsd you would probably love the car you're driving and feel strong emmotional connection to the trees standing by the road 20:28:58 alise, with "those" in " nooga, most likely every one of those is suicide" I was referring to those in the video though 20:28:59 gahaha@56 20:29:02 Vorpal: "Haschisch" is second one in the video. 20:29:19 nooga: at a regular dose isn't it a bit arguable whether you'd recognise them as trees or not? 20:29:25 fizzie, is that same as marijuana ? 20:29:36 fizzie, I don't speak German 20:29:38 and then comes the pink-blue, glowing squirrelephant that pursues you 20:29:51 Vorpal: It's the same as en:hashish, which is same stuff in a bit different form. 20:29:57 ah 20:30:03 alise, stage 101 20:30:04 Now 20:30:07 fizzie, can't say I'm a drug expert 20:30:29 Sgeo: unlike you i wish to play the game in order from start to finish 20:30:53 But I don't think 101 is after the finish 20:31:06 101 typically comes after 100. 20:31:24 Even if it's technically speaking in a different list. 20:32:14 I'd like to see a changelog between 1.01 and 1.10, though. 20:33:07 hm? 20:33:12 was it changed? 20:33:15 dot action 2 1.10 :D 20:33:32 [2008-11-23 22:56:25] That http://dotaction.fizzlebot.com/ link is to version 1.01; the original you pasted -- http://dagobah.biz/flash/dotact2.swf -- is 1.10. 20:33:44 There were two versions at least then. 20:33:57 Ah. 20:33:59 Huh. 20:34:03 I've been playing 1.01. 20:35:01 Oh, right, we had a bit of a competition going on with oklopol. 20:36:10 I gave up at level 93, oklopol went on at least up to 97. 20:36:59 (At least 98, it seems.) 20:40:40 I did 57 with 1 TIME left. Fuck yeah. 20:40:47 fizzie: did we ever figure out how long a TIME was? 20:40:54 brb 20:41:22 I'm not sure; I remember color-picking and figuring out the formula for the background RGB color. 20:42:05 But there are many. 20:42:35 brb 20:42:44 Based on a quick manual check, TIME seems to be decremented approximately at a rate of 4 units/second. 20:42:51 -!- nooga has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 20:44:52 I actually died on 101 this time 20:47:25 fizzie, try 101-108? 20:49:24 101 101 101 101 101 101 101 20:51:02 fizzie: on stage 58, do you know how to avoid dying on the very last bit? 20:51:05 if you space you die 20:51:10 if you wait you fall and die 20:58:02 did 58 20:59:08 Oh, I'm too late, then. 20:59:43 And I've tried the 101-108 levels back then, too. 21:02:14 alise, someone killed my ghost 21:03:27 * Phantom_Hoover_ → reboot 21:05:53 What I most hate in the acted-on dots part twain is the time-limited levels. (Okay, all of them are time-limited theoretically speaking, but those where the main challenge comes from the time limit. I just tried 60 for a lark, and ran out of time on the last "terrace" there, even though I didn't do any obvious time-wasting on the way there. 21:05:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:05:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:07:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:08:01 fizzie: 59 is evil 21:08:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:08:03 with the time 21:08:52 fizzie: Dot Action 2 is even more than nintendo hard :) 21:09:57 It's not IWTBTG levels 21:10:25 -!- comex has changed nick to comjex. 21:10:34 Says you, who hasn't even played all 100 levels yet. 21:10:48 fizzie: I have. 21:10:51 Ages ago. 21:10:53 Just not in order. 21:11:01 Or did you mean Sgeo? 21:11:12 Sgeo is who I meant. 21:11:47 Y'know, I think I hate just about everything about the UI of video game emulators these days. 21:11:55 DOSBox? 21:12:12 And ROM management tools. 21:12:14 They all suck. 21:12:20 Especially in their treatment of files. 21:12:44 * Sgeo WTFs at a non-programmer using the word "callbacks" 21:13:15 pikhq: Play Dot Action 2. No other games are necessary. 21:13:44 * Sgeo growls at stage 35 21:14:06 It's easy, just the damn time limit 21:14:48 did 59 21:14:50 YES 21:15:00 Sgeo: Ha, you are so pitiful! 21:15:03 Here's the common ROM handling format: 21:15:27 foo.ext. A dump of the actual contents of the ROM chip. 21:15:28 fizzie: WHAT THE FUCK AT 60 21:15:29 Nothing else. 21:16:01 Metadata? Bah. Any hints about what hardware is needed to run it? Baaaah. Unreliable heuristics instead! 21:16:07 fizzie: How do you do it??? 21:16:45 That last bit is mostly an issue for systems such as the NES and SNES where the cartridge could actually have addon hardware hooked into the system. 21:17:21 (NES with its memory mappers, the SNES with its memory mappers and the ability to have some other processor run on the main bus in tandem with the main processor) 21:18:24 < Sgeo> alise, someone killed my ghost 21:18:27 ... 21:18:32 Maybe *I'm* drunk. 21:18:50 cpressey: NetHack 21:18:54 alise, no 21:18:55 fizzie: HOW DO YOU DO 60 21:19:08 Crawl 21:19:10 Yes 21:19:22 Awful. 21:19:31 Y'know what? I should write frontends to a bunch of (best available free) emulators. Just to get it not awful. 21:19:38 And some sort of ROM management tool. 21:19:38 alise, you wanna watch on FooTV? 21:19:47 Aaaaaand define a nice metadata format. 21:20:04 Sgeo: no, i hate crawl 21:20:05 pikhq: XML! 21:20:11 ?! 21:20:31 alise: Maybe. 21:20:42 pikhq: No. 21:21:02 I tried 60, and like I said, couldn't quite make it on time. But I'm bad at swimming upwards. Can't recall if there was any tricks from the previous playthrough. 21:21:07 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:21:25 Also: ROM patching is absolutely completely and utterly bonkers. 21:21:40 alise, but you downloaded it recently! 21:21:43 And played with it! 21:21:46 Sgeo: Yes. 21:21:47 And loved it! 21:21:47 It sucked. 21:21:52 No I didn't. 21:22:03 You didn't love pitting monsters against eachother? ;) 21:22:17 -!- Leonidas has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 21:22:17 that was fun, and why did you say ";)" 21:22:21 but that wasn't playing crawl 21:22:22 -!- wareya has joined. 21:22:29 pikhq: I'd be happy if people just stopped calling things that clearly came on a floppy, "ROMs". 21:22:45 cpressey: Hah. 21:22:51 Completely diferent problem, of course. 21:22:57 fizzie: HOW DO YU DO 60 RTJHO 21:23:06 36 done 21:23:08 Oh, also. I would *love* to punch whoever is responsible for "plugins" on emulators for more recent systems. 21:23:13 THEY DONT FUCKING WORK. 21:23:29 cpressey: Download your C64 ROMs here! (No, not the rom files vice/any-other-emulator needs.) 21:25:38 fizzie: I'm actually having trouble thinking of levels more demented than DA2's, which is a problem, as I'd quite like to create DSDE. 21:25:52 -!- alise has left (?). 21:25:55 -!- alise has joined. 21:25:56 whoops 21:26:00 (Dot Super Death Edition.) 21:26:27 I hereby employ pikhq to come up with a dodgy half-phonetic-English-kana, one-or-two-kanji-words version of that title. 21:26:45 Dottu SUPER DEATH: edition! 21:26:51 Dottu edition: SUPER DEATH! 21:27:09 alise, is 37 a race against the clock? 21:27:11 I can't tell yet 21:27:24 Sgeo: no 21:28:39 alise: Sooo.... 点新死エディション? 21:29:12 "Explore new death point" 21:29:15 wat XD 21:30:04 Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. 21:30:05 ("ten shin shi edishon" in Hepburn, "ten sin si etìīsiȳon" in craziness) 21:30:30 pikhq: What does it translate literally as? 21:30:37 Also, :D Edishon 21:30:41 alise: Dot new death edition. 21:30:50 That's not super. 21:31:14 新, "new", was commonly used in the names of games where "Super" was in the US. 21:31:19 And the rest of the world. 21:31:37 "New Mario Brothers"? 21:31:41 * cpressey disillusioned 21:31:52 cpressey: No, think about games on the SNES. 21:31:55 There is a New Super Mario Brothers. 21:32:02 So is it New New Mario Brothers in Japanese? 21:32:10 alise: No, it was New Super Mario Brothers. 21:32:17 pikhq: Also, dot? Not dottu? :-( 21:32:20 RACIST. 21:32:45 alise: "Dottu" would more normally be romanised as "dottsu". 21:33:23 pikhq: How can the Japanese pronounce dot without tu after it?! 21:33:25 It is unpossible! 21:33:49 alise: They can't. 21:34:02 Well, they can do "dotto". 21:34:13 Which is how it would end up in bastardised English. 21:34:15 Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. <-- uh... What other characters do you think look dangerous? So we can have something to compare with 21:34:26 pikhq: So how come you detranslated it as "dot"? :'( 21:34:27 alise: Would you like it to just be bastardised English? 21:34:29 That's racism. 21:34:34 -!- Gregor-P has joined. 21:34:41 ("ten shin shi edishon" in Hepburn, "ten sin si etìīsiȳon" in craziness) ;; Wait, I see no japanised "dot" here. 21:34:45 Kanaised, rather. 21:34:49 alise: "Ten". 21:34:53 Wat. 21:35:03 alise: Japanese for dot. 21:35:13 Right, but what is it in ludicrous English kana? :P 21:35:18 ドット・スーパ・デース・エディション 21:35:25 All ... of that? 21:35:35 "Dotto suupa deesu edishon". 21:36:58 ドット is dotto? 21:37:02 Yes. 21:37:04 Or "tò'to sūhå tềsu etèīsiȳon". 21:37:12 ドット新死エディション 21:37:20 Erm. 21:37:23 So then this is "dotto new death edishon"? 21:37:26 "tò'to sûhå tềsu etèīsiȳon". 21:37:28 alise: Yes. 21:37:31 Sweet 21:37:36 My game's new title 21:37:48 Isn't that one of the numbers there? 21:37:52 Digits, that is. 21:37:57 Gah, your "discussion" (or the "dotto" part, anyway) made the Tenshi ni Narumon opening theme start to play in my head. "Thanks." 21:38:18 alise: ? 21:38:29 エ 21:38:33 Had I not died on the jump, I would only have had 76 time to do that maze 21:38:36 Time may be a factor 21:38:48 alise: No. 21:38:52 -!- Killerkid has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:39:30 一二三四五六七八九十 There's the numbers 1 through ten. 21:39:50 Ah. Just looked similar, then. 21:39:59 pikhq: Hey, it's uppercase Xi. :P 21:40:01 What's zero? 21:40:02 (iti ni san yon kò roku siti hati kiȳû sìȳû) 21:40:25 alise: 零 21:40:47 Ha. 21:41:12 That is not normally used. 21:41:16 pikhq: So is "ドット新死エディション" actually comprehensible to your average Japanese-speaker? 21:41:19 Also, what? They just ignore zero? 21:41:21 alise: Yes. 21:41:23 Japanese mathematics fuck yeah. 21:41:27 alise: And no, they don't ignore zero. 21:41:31 pikhq: Even "edishon"? 21:41:35 They use Arabic numerals. 21:41:37 And yes. 21:42:19 Using the kanji for the numbers is a bit like spelling it out in English. 21:42:34 * Phantom_Hoover finishes watching Turkish Star Wars 21:43:12 alise: Japanese has a lot of bastardised English in it. 21:47:32 Phantom_Hoover, why did you watch that at all? 21:47:54 Vorpal, because it is hilarious. 21:47:59 Phantom_Hoover, how so? 21:48:00 ? 21:48:04 Hmm, I need a character like # or X but that looks dangerous. <-- uh... What other characters do you think look dangerous? So we can have something to compare with 21:48:05 ! does 21:48:14 it's for the lava/electric fence (TOTALLY LAVA) 21:48:16 in dot action 2 21:48:20 alise, ah hm 21:48:33 alise, and ! is in use? Or not wide enough? 21:48:38 Vorpal, it just is. 21:48:40 what about ☠ 21:48:43 it's a full block 21:48:46 so ! doesn't really look right 21:48:53 ais523: haha, i think i'd prefer to keep it ascii :) 21:48:54 The training montage is the funniest ever. 21:48:59 or ⚠ 21:49:05 ais523, what's the first one meant to be? 21:49:07 hmm, aren't really many choices in ASCII 21:49:12 Phantom_Hoover: skull and crossbones 21:49:21 Not for me. 21:49:22 alise, hm... X does look somewhat dangerous. # doesn't. 21:49:27 can't think of any other char 21:49:27 Phantom_Hoover: ? 21:49:33 Vorpal: # is the walls 21:49:35 # is typical for walls, on ASCII maps 21:49:37 X looks a bit like walls, though... 21:49:41 alise, nice skull btw 21:49:42 It looks like a dagger with the end curled around. 21:49:43 err 21:49:46 ais523, ^ 21:49:47 ~ works for liquids, like lava 21:50:00 ais523, doesn't look very dangerous 21:50:06 or you could use ^ 21:50:11 ais523, isn't # corridor in nethack? 21:50:16 spiky, and is used for traps in roguelikes 21:50:18 wait, no 21:50:25 Vorpal: for lots of things, including corridors 21:50:40 ais523: it's really an electric fence 21:50:41 ais523, hm 21:50:44 (it keeps its shape and can stand alone) 21:50:54 you often get e.g. T shapes, meaning ^ would look a bit strange 21:50:59 I've used - for fences before 21:51:05 -!- Killerkid has joined. 21:51:08 but that would look even stranger for a T shape 21:51:14 alise, what about |-|-|-|-|-| ? Fence posts 21:51:15 what about % 21:51:18 % looks kind of nasty, to me. 21:51:23 Vorpal: err, one character 21:51:26 perhaps % 21:51:28 alise, hm okay 21:51:31 although it's a bit ambiguous 21:51:39 I still need to figure out ones for green (flips the level upside down) 21:51:43 and red (gives you fence protection) 21:51:47 % would be good for green 21:51:48 alise, I was just about to say that % looks editable! 21:51:53 it looks like flipping, somehow 21:51:57 Vorpal: *edible 21:52:01 alise, err yeah 21:52:16 alise, should be "eatable" really 21:52:28 logically I mean 21:52:41 not sure what evil-protection should be 21:52:49 $? it is somewhat valuable, I guess, but that seems strange. 21:52:55 perhaps @ 21:53:00 hm 21:53:35 alise, what about ! like nethack potion 21:53:49 special effect for some time and such 21:53:53 You know what would be useful? If the OS could send a signal to a process meaning "Please reduce your memory consumption". 21:54:12 Vorpal: they're full block-width too 21:54:18 i.e. they all take up as much space as a # 21:54:22 just different colours 21:54:28 alise, so monospace font? 21:54:36 alise, and @ should be the player I think 21:54:46 -!- Leonidas_ has joined. 21:54:46 yes I know I'm nethack influenced here 21:54:56 -!- Leonidas_ has changed nick to Leonidas. 21:55:06 Vorpal: yes, I thought that, but I realised that it can't be 21:55:11 because 21:55:12 alise, oh? 21:55:18 you can start in mid-air or on the ground 21:55:20 for instance 21:55:21 @ 21:55:22 # 21:55:25 is this standing on the ground 21:55:27 right 21:55:29 or falling from the top of that cell on to the ground? 21:55:33 maybe it is obvious? but 21:55:34 @ 21:55:35 X 21:55:35 < Vorpal> alise, so monospace font? 21:55:41 here you want to be falling on to the X at the start 21:55:45 not on it 21:55:49 How I wish it were not! 21:55:50 alise, what was # and X? 21:55:53 so I think I'll have to specify it some other way 21:55:59 alise, they both look pretty solid 21:56:02 Vorpal: # is wall/ground/floor/whatever, X is evil electric fence 21:56:06 solid, sure, but deadly 21:56:17 also, it's hollow if you have ZET 21:56:24 which you get from red blocks for a certain amount of time 21:56:32 hm 21:56:45 alise, starting on top of one at the beginning of a level sounds very evil 21:57:18 alise: How big is a Dot Action playfield, in grid cells? 21:57:22 It's normal 21:57:27 Vorpal: well, you start falling on one 21:57:27 in a few 21:57:34 e.g. the one with 1 time 21:57:37 Just move right or whatever 21:57:38 or was it 0 time, i forget 21:57:43 1 time = 1/4 second 21:57:48 0 time = game ends as soon as it starts 21:57:54 alise, oh right, unrealistic physics for in-air movement 21:57:57 alise, in the list, the time is listed 21:58:03 most platformers have that 21:58:08 (you have to press jump and right, if you hit off the ceiling you fall quicker) 21:58:12 (making you fall on to the block in time) 21:58:15 cpressey: Pretty big 21:58:18 cpressey: Bigger than 80x24 21:59:11 Hmm, there's no TV Tropes drinking game for Turkish Star Wars. 21:59:13 alise, anyway you said it was unclear if you stand on ground or are falling from top of tile? 21:59:18 Should be pretty simple. 21:59:25 Vorpal: yes 21:59:26 alise, does that mean the player is smaller than a tile? 21:59:33 exactly one tile big 21:59:36 but he can be on half a tile 21:59:45 alise, and half another? 21:59:51 yes 21:59:52 "Take a sip every time the Indiana Jones theme plays or the hero attacks someone by bouncing on a trampoline." 21:59:53 you could put it one tile up and say it's always on the ground 21:59:56 to the same effect, probably 21:59:56 but 22:00:01 what if there's another square there 22:00:01 alise, thus everything is in fact 2x2 tiles big? 22:00:19 apart from movement 22:00:25 alise, time is most certainly a factor in 37 22:00:27 Vorpal: no 22:00:32 Vorpal: he can be on 1/whateverth of a tile too 22:00:37 Sgeo: only if you suck 22:00:42 Vorpal: (however pixels high he is) 22:00:47 Vorpal: continuous movement 22:00:47 alise, hard to translate to ascii that 22:01:01 but he can only start in one tile, i think 22:01:02 not sure 22:01:12 alise, still rather bad 22:01:16 hrrm 22:01:27 Phantom_Hoover: There's Turkish Star Trek! 22:01:31 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7185067049150068960 22:01:43 :D 22:01:54 Does it have TRAMPOLINING 22:01:56 Funky opening music. 22:01:59 Phantom_Hoover: it has Mr. Spak 22:02:01 alise, with unicode there is probably some symbol that exists for several different "placements" in a char. But since you wanted ASCII only... 22:02:08 "Overview: This Turkish version of Star Trek is a complete rip off of the original Star Trek series, only the main character in this is a lecherous drunk accompanied by an entire soundboard of wacky effects. Everything about this film is below Z-grade." 22:02:26 Sounds like Turkish Star Wars.... 22:02:27 Vorpal: I'm just going to have START x y or something, probably. 22:02:34 alise, oh it is not just a texted version? But a rip-off? 22:02:40 Phantom_Hoover: And it uses clips too, apparently. 22:02:42 Vorpal: yes 22:02:45 same with Turkish Star Wars 22:02:48 aha 22:02:50 Does it have King Leonidas? 22:02:52 they both use /clips from the original/, too 22:02:53 alise: I was thinking this would be a good candidate for a C64 game, with a sprite for the player. You could do an 80x50 playfield if your player sprite was really tiny (like, 2 pixels square.) 22:03:00 LOL 22:03:05 after the star trek theme and their own crazy theme 22:03:08 they do the star trek theme again 22:03:12 why??? 22:03:14 Ha 22:03:22 cpressey: That would be awesome. 22:03:24 These films make very little sense. 22:03:34 The Captain's logbook. Star-date blah blah. 22:03:40 alise, which star trek theme? 22:03:43 TOS? 22:03:44 Phantom_Hoover: I can't remember being on the payroll 22:03:45 Vorpal: yes 22:03:49 Ooh-aaaaah oh oh oh oh oh aaaaaaaah 22:03:51 In what little backstory TSW has, I gather that the world has been blown up several times. 22:03:55 Oh oh ohhhh aaaaah aah ahah ah ah ahohhhh 22:04:04 Hmm, that sounds inappropriate over IRC. 22:04:07 alise, I'm trying to remember the TOS theme... was ages ago I watched non-movie TOS 22:04:15 Vorpal: Click the video and hear 22:04:23 http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7185067049150068960 22:04:24 * Vorpal finds it on youtube 22:04:27 Hope you have a gvideo-download 22:04:33 Vorpal, not on Youtube. 22:04:57 Phantom_Hoover, um the theme I meant 22:05:04 Vorpal: there were 3 versions 22:05:05 for each series 22:05:09 alise, oh? 22:05:17 two with crazy female vocals (one with them drowning out everything else) 22:05:21 (the other with it mixed in) 22:05:24 one without (series 1) 22:05:37 "Does it bother you, that I have a different structure than human, Doc?" -- Mr. Spak 22:05:56 "Mr. Spock please don't be upset. We appreciate that you Vulcans are superior species." 22:05:57 this one had female voices 22:06:01 which don't remember at all 22:06:14 "Upset? Probably, you forgot that such an illogical emotion does not exist on us." 22:06:52 alise, when did they use which theme? 22:06:53 this has just as good writing as TOS :-) 22:07:04 Vorpal: 1 was manly and unfeminine 22:07:10 i forget the ordering of the mixed in / drowning one 22:07:16 i think 3 is the one that had it drowning out everything else creepily 22:07:25 HAHAHAH @ THE TRANSPORTER GRAPHICS 22:07:33 alise, but when did they use them? 22:07:37 Vorpal: ??? 22:07:39 alise, for mirror universe and such? 22:07:42 Vorpal: the three series of TOS 22:07:45 alise, aha 22:07:48 each had a different variation on the theme 22:07:49 alise, do the action scenes have TRAMPOLINES? 22:07:54 no female, female mixed in, female drowned out 22:07:58 i forget the ordering of the latter two 22:07:59 alise, god I had forgotten how long TOS ran 22:08:01 Phantom_Hoover: dunno 22:08:04 Vorpal: yes, not long :P 22:08:08 but too long :P 22:08:17 but just long enough for it to be syndicated striped 22:08:18 which was vital for TNG 22:08:21 well 22:08:23 vital for TOS' popularity 22:08:25 which lead to TNG 22:08:40 but just long enough for it to be syndicated striped <-- eh? 22:08:53 I understood each word but wtf is "syndicated striped" 22:09:11 striped = one episode a day 22:09:22 ah 22:09:24 *stripped, maybe 22:09:25 I forget the term 22:09:32 yes 22:09:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stripping_(television) 22:09:41 alise, ah I found the original without vocals 22:09:50 sounds jazzy 22:09:55 well in part 22:10:02 alise, I much prefer the TNG music. 22:10:55 Vorpal: speaking of swapping music for mirror universe episodes 22:11:00 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4nceCmigAM ;; normal Enterprise theme 22:11:06 alise, which enterprise? 22:11:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbsZRbwbJ4 ;; "In a Mirror, Darkly" theme 22:11:10 Vorpal: ENT 22:11:16 alise, as in the last one? 22:11:17 Star Trek: Enterprise 22:11:17 Bleugh, awful. 22:11:18 yes 22:11:24 Phantom_Hoover: The series? 22:11:26 Yeah, it is. 22:11:31 No, the theme. 22:11:32 "In a Mirror, Darkly" was actually good, though. 22:11:37 Oh. 22:11:37 alise, oh wasn't that very un-spacy music too? guitar iirc? 22:11:38 I don't watch Star Trek... 22:11:41 The pop song. 22:11:52 Vorpal: Yes. But not the mirror universe one. 22:11:54 don't think I watched any of the mirror universe 22:12:00 Only two episodes. 22:12:04 alise, will download once I finished watching TNG intro 22:12:06 No overlapping, either, just one ship. 22:12:07 alise: The last season was about where it became watchable. 22:12:16 The whole two-parter took place in the mirror universe. 22:12:29 gah: 22:12:32 And it didn't end with a revolution. 22:12:34 [download] 1.5% of 23.01M at 29.61k/s ETA 13:03 22:12:35 Yes, it got canceled just as it improved. 22:12:41 alise, I will watch. In a while 22:12:52 Vorpal: might want to watch both to see the contrst 22:12:53 *contrast 22:12:56 The normal theme was still god-awful. 22:13:02 alise, well yes, but look at the dl speed 22:13:03 they replaced all the historical exploration scenes with warfare :) 22:13:11 alise, it seems that HD download slower than smaller ones 22:13:21 the TNG one was original-size youtube 22:13:28 I loved the scene of Cochrane shooting the Vulcan. Nice teaser. 22:13:30 Downloaded at 200 kB/s 22:13:53 pikhq: It tried a bit too hard to be retro. 22:14:04 Prime directive? Never heard of it. 22:14:17 Stardate? Naw, let's just use Earth years. Because only FEDERATIONS make space-wise decisions! 22:14:32 alise: Star Trek TOS did not need a prequel. It really didn't. 22:14:41 It needed a sequel that completely forgot about Voyager. 22:14:43 :P 22:14:47 Yes; I dislike the idea of an Enterprise-pre-Enterprise. 22:15:03 pikhq: I'd like to see a sequel set a long time after Voyager. 22:15:20 It'll require less anal clinching to canon. 22:15:33 alise: That would be quite nice. 22:15:51 I'd just like a sequel that is written well. 22:16:09 pikhq: The most WTF part of Voyager canon is that it ends with the Borg no longer being much of a threat 22:16:12 Why the hell would you do that??? 22:16:13 alise, the non-mirror one downloaded fast 22:16:14 sigh 22:16:20 You could freaking make it be about Wesley's adventures if it were written reasonably. :P 22:16:22 They are the best enemy ever. 22:16:41 (note: to make it written well would require some retconning. Because SHUT UP WESLEY!) 22:17:18 pikhq: He graduated Starfleet and grew the fuck up. 22:17:27 Borg? Hey yeah, we have one of them on our CREW. 22:17:31 Tell me one reason not to do this. 22:17:34 Ohhhhhh Voyager. 22:17:37 alise: I cannot. 22:17:38 cpressey: I was referring to the finale. 22:17:44 alise: I don't care. 22:17:46 In which future Janeway says "Ha, actually, I have this magic that defeats the Borg". 22:17:51 And gives them it. 22:17:54 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:17:55 Fuck Janeway. 22:17:59 FUCK JANEWAY. 22:18:00 alise: I only care that it ENDED. 22:18:04 FUCK THE FUCKING HELL OF JANEWAY FUCK. 22:18:04 wait what? 22:18:10 Vorpal: VOYAGER IS FUCKING SHIT. 22:18:14 Janeway wasn't the worst of Voyager 22:18:19 ?? 22:18:21 Vorpal: Indeed, she wasn't. 22:18:22 I mean, there were far worse parts of it 22:18:25 All characters were the worst characters in Voyager 22:18:27 She was the worst character 22:18:28 Vorpal: But: Fuck. Janeway. 22:18:32 cpressey: no 22:18:33 cpressey: The Doctor 22:18:40 alise: Nelix. 22:18:41 was the only sane man on the ship 22:18:54 pikhq: Neelix didn't control the direction of the entire ship and its crew. 22:18:58 OK, maybe the doctor was not entirely void as a character. 22:18:58 alise, wait a second? Didn't he almost destroy the ship once? 22:19:00 Or do anything at all, actually. 22:19:02 after being taken over? 22:19:06 Vorpal: The Doctor? 22:19:08 alise, yes 22:19:10 alise: He tried very hard to be the Wesley. 22:19:12 *maybe* 22:19:14 Uh, don't know. 22:19:22 Granted, he failed because he *sucks*, but hey! 22:19:32 pikhq: Robert Picardo, the Doctor, actually initially auditioned for Neelix; can you believe that? 22:19:49 alise: You know waaaay too much about this awful show. 22:19:52 "I have cooked up a WONDERFUL soup that -- -- will hopefully make you shut up." 22:19:54 alise: You're fucking kidding. 22:19:58 cpressey: I watch it for amusement. 22:20:07 cpressey: Like MST3K, but I get to come up with the narration myself. 22:20:10 pikhq: Nope. 22:20:16 cpressey: It's often in so-bad-it's-good territory. 22:20:29 Which is... All the merit it has for much of its run. 22:20:52 (there's a handful of actually decent-to-good episodes that somehow managed to sneak in) 22:20:56 At least it's not so boring that I couldn't watch it, like -- some of those other shows. 22:21:07 alise, wow that mirror universe music was *AWESOME* 22:21:08 cpressey: I've actually grown on Deep Space 9. 22:21:08 But is awful > boring? Dunno, really. 22:21:11 alise, just pure awesome 22:21:24 alise: DS9 was not half as bad 22:21:27 Vorpal: I liked the fade of the title to black at the beginning. It's the little things... 22:21:32 cpressey: I mean wrt boringness. 22:21:37 Vorpal: The mirror universe episode there was actually genuinely good. 22:21:39 AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH 22:21:44 pikhq, right 22:21:46 pikhq: No goatees! 22:21:46 Stop talking about Star Trek! 22:21:53 Just a bunch of people being assholes to each other, and then it ends! 22:21:54 Can we at least discuss LITERATURE? 22:21:54 pikhq, haven't watched them 22:21:55 alise: I don't know if it was boring so much as.. slow. 22:22:09 Phantom_Hoover: Hey, at least we're not discussing favorite captains. 22:22:13 Phantom_Hoover: OVID'S METAMORPHOSES. READ IT? 22:22:14 Voyager, "Blood Fever" review: Everyone gets pon farr. Everyone tries to have sex with each other! 22:22:15 STOP 22:22:19 cpressey, A BIT 22:22:23 Phantom_Hoover, you mean Star Trek: The Complete Movie Scripts? 22:22:23 IN LATIN, AS WELL 22:22:26 pikhq: There's a competition? 22:22:32 Phantom_Hoover: I'M ABOUT 1/3 THE WAY THROUGH 22:22:33 (I wonder, does that exist?) 22:22:36 (it probably does) 22:22:37 alise: There's some debate, yes. 22:22:39 NOT LATIN THOUGH 22:22:40 pikhq: Picard. I can see an argument for Sisko, but he wasn't really a captain. 22:22:52 pikhq: Kirk was brash and ... not as intelligent as Picard. Janewahahahahaha 22:23:02 alise: Some people actually like Kirk. They must love cheese. 22:23:02 alise, hm I have the say TNG is my favourite 22:23:04 Archer was... uh... I can't think of anything to say 22:23:30 cpressey, YOU'RE SO UNCULTURED 22:23:50 pikhq: One bad thing about "In a Mirror, Darkly" was a bit of a continuity error. 22:24:13 It mentions a speech by Cochrane talking about the future Borg and future crew battling before he made the warp flight in a speech. 22:24:14 Could not find module `Text.ParserCombinators.Parsec' 22:24:19 cpressey: Text.Parsec 22:24:20 well, forget Parsec anyway 22:24:23 alise: In a series that played with time travel to the point that it may have ceased to have happened, that is *not* a big deal. 22:24:24 cpressey: for v3 22:24:27 pikhq: But, 22:24:31 they gotta go and move everything huh 22:24:39 pikhq: How come the crew of First Contact didn't know about this? 22:24:46 And realise? 22:24:54 pikhq: YOU CAN say that this is because of the alternate universe. 22:25:00 But why, when it's identical in every other way apart from evil? 22:25:04 Could not find module `Text.Parsec' 22:25:06 Did I happen to mention that Enterprise may have wiped itself from existence? 22:25:06 Wait... 22:25:11 That wasn't "In a Mirror, Darkly". 22:25:18 That was "Regeneration", which I watched the same day (oops). 22:25:24 So they have no alternate universe excuse. 22:25:26 alise: In a series that played with time travel to the point that it may have ceased to have happened, that is *not* a big deal. <-- actually I find that was one of the few good parts of that series 22:25:33 well, forget Parsec anyway 22:25:34 I love time travel 22:25:39 though, could have been done better 22:25:48 still, any time travel is better than no time travel ;) 22:25:56 We need more Q. 22:25:59 Any future series must have Q. 22:26:06 Preferably Q and the Borg at the same time. 22:26:09 And Picard. 22:26:11 alise: rm -rf Voyager && yes 22:26:12 Godlike superbeings FtW! 22:26:16 alise, oh god no 22:26:28 alise, still not read the Culture books? 22:26:30 alise, Q was an annoying arrogant bastard 22:26:32 Let's just make an episode that is Picard and Q and the Borg destroying Voyager, over and over again, and they do it so many times that it actually disappears from the timestream forever. 22:26:36 Vorpal: ... that's ... the point ... 22:26:54 alise, yes and it doesn't work out too well 22:27:00 Yes it did. 22:27:10 well I disagree there 22:27:10 Vorpal: It worked brilliantly in TNG. 22:27:19 pikhq, yes, the first 3 or 4 times 22:27:26 pikhq, then *yawn* 22:27:29 "All Good Things..." <3 22:27:30 Vorpal: It was solidly meh in DS9, and SUCKED MAJOR ASS in Voyager... 22:27:44 Vorpal: Dude, there were only 8 Q episodes in TNG. 22:27:47 There were 8 seasons. 22:27:59 alise, yes. And? 22:28:06 4 < 8 22:28:17 Vorpal: "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things..." are the same story. 22:28:21 Can't avoid involving Q in the conclusion. 22:28:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 22:28:27 So that's 7 Q stories now. 22:28:38 4 < 7 still 22:28:41 "Hide and Q" was first season, so we can pretend it never existed. 6 Q stories. 22:28:50 alise, wait what 22:28:52 " "Hide and Q" was first season, so we can pretend it never existed. 6 Q stories." 22:28:54 how does that work 22:28:59 Vorpal: the first season was awful 22:29:07 Vorpal: First season sucked and Riker didn't have a beard. 22:29:10 it introduced Wesley-as-God (by mistake), had beardless Riker, and hackneyed plots. 22:29:11 Ignoring awful things, how does THAT work? 22:29:15 alise, okay and 4 < 6 still 22:29:36 alise: Don't forget the keychain-sized phasers. 22:29:48 (How do you *aim* that thing?) 22:29:51 Vorpal: Well, "Q Who" is good because it introduces the Borg and is an awesome episode. 1 good story. "Deja Q" has mortal Q. Good. 22:30:07 "Qpid" ... eh. Meh. Not included. 22:30:18 alise, why did you not include Qpid? 22:30:26 Because it's not good. I'm counting good ones to prove it's > 4. 22:30:30 ...anyway, point is, almost all Q stories in TNG were good. 22:30:35 And besides, there were only 8. 22:30:39 -!- olsner has joined. 22:30:43 cpressey, hm? how do you aim a laser pointer of keychain size? Such exists for presentation stuff iirc 22:30:44 <3 Q 22:31:11 alise, the mortal Q one was good, I agree 22:31:27 I'm going to deliberately induce suffering by watching SGI.. actually, maybe I'll watch Deja Q 22:31:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:31:42 I think I've seen it before 22:31:53 Watch "Encounter at Farpoint" and "All Good Things..." back to back. Bet it makes perfect sense. 22:32:18 alise, how many bluray discs do you need to fit all of TOS I wonder 22:32:23 Vorpal: I don't know. I've never had to mortally wound a whiteboard. 22:32:25 "Encounter at Farpoint" is kinda wince-inducing when Q isn't on-screen. 22:32:29 Vorpal: Um. 22:32:30 Three. 22:32:34 At the MOST. 22:32:35 cpressey, XD 22:32:38 Well. 22:32:39 Maybe more. 22:32:45 SGU has half a season on a Blu-Ray. 22:32:47 alise, really? 22:32:48 So six, at the most. 22:32:54 That much quality would be pointless for the shabby source material. 22:32:55 alise, what quality? 22:32:56 So three. 22:33:00 Vorpal: SGU? 1080p. 22:33:05 hm 22:33:09 SGU being? 22:33:09 Ultra quality HD etc. new modern show etc. 22:33:10 alise, I assume that you haven't, then. 22:33:12 Stargate Universe. 22:33:16 ah 22:33:18 Phantom_Hoover_: ? 22:33:25 Read the Culture novels. 22:33:36 No. 22:33:40 I like SGU 22:33:43 WHAT WE ARE ALL NEGLECTING HERE 22:33:46 alise, bah 22:33:50 alise, well, 1080p... http://xkcd.com/732/ 22:33:54 IS STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES PHASE II 22:33:54 alise: DOT ACTION SUPER PANIC ? 22:33:56 Vorpal: A Blu-ray disc gets you 50GB. Which is significantly higher than you need for very good quality 1080p video. 22:34:03 Vorpal, stupid. 22:34:04 pikhq, hm okay. 22:34:10 Vorpal: xkcd, stupid 22:34:19 I like xkcd 22:34:19 alise, why is that *specific* xkcd stupid 22:34:20 also, 1080p is damn good quality 22:34:22 "TV" and "monitor" are both very different things. 22:34:22 So you either get stupid high-quality movies or quite a lot on a disc. 22:34:26 so it's not new 22:34:26 zomg 22:34:27 I tend to read both xkcd and xkcdsucks though 22:34:31 alise, I watch movies on computer, not on a TV 22:34:32 Should I break my vow to never read xkcd? 22:34:33 xkcdsucks sucks a lot nowadays too 22:34:37 Carl is just going through the motions 22:34:38 cpressey: no 22:34:38 And your average monitor isn't a metre tall. 22:34:46 pikhq: anyway 22:34:53 pikhq: STAR TREK NEW VOYAGES: PHASE II 22:34:54 DISCUSS 22:35:00 alise: Thankfully I overcame the urge. 22:35:06 I couldn't even make myself watch more than a few minutes of World Enough and Time. 22:35:10 The glittersuit did it. 22:35:11 Phantom_Hoover_, true. So it has way lower DPI too 22:35:15 He literally wore a suit with glitter all over it. 22:35:23 Vorpal: You sit way, way away from it. 22:35:29 xkcd wasn't dissing HDTVs, anyway, just their impressiveness. 22:35:35 He's saying "HDTVs are good but they are not anything impressive". 22:35:39 alise, which is also silly IMO 22:35:46 alise, indeed 22:35:54 Vorpal is stupid and has no idea why TVs are good 22:35:57 Moving on, 22:36:11 alise, I find it nicer to watch on my desktop monitor 22:36:40 could get a TV tuner card if I needed that 22:36:57 Television is bad. Televisions are good. 22:36:59 Vorpal, ugh. 22:37:08 Phantom_Hoover_, hm? 22:38:35 Phantom_Hoover_, why did you say "ugh" while highlighting me? 22:38:37 pikhq: Proposal: Star Trek fan sequel series starring people who aren't unwashed Trekkies and with actual production values. 22:38:48 Such as Vulcans that aren't obviously wearing velcro. 22:38:54 alise: Problem: getting people involved. 22:39:05 alise, velcro? 22:39:06 alise: Also: to be fair, New Voyages is following after TOS. 22:39:13 It's got about the same level of production values. 22:39:14 Phantom_Hoover_, I hardly ever watch TV. when I watch DVDs I do it on my computer. Which has a nice monitor and nice sound. 22:39:17 pikhq: I'll play Wesley, who, although he has graduated, has a rare genetic condition that means he still looks 12. 22:39:20 Just like me! 22:39:25 The looking 12 part, that is. 22:39:28 Phantom_Hoover_, now I'm wondering what the fuck you meant with " Vorpal, ugh." 22:39:31 Also, he has actually shrunk. 22:39:47 Maybe we should just do a Galaxy Quest series. 22:39:49 alise: How's about we just get Wil Wheaton. 22:39:58 pikhq: He'd want money. 22:40:07 alise: You don't *know* that. 22:40:07 Also, he looks like Riker now. 22:40:22 pikhq: !! Wil could play Riker. 22:40:26 Frakes is way too old-looking now. 22:40:47 I'm assuming this has just turned into "Star Trek: The Next Generation: The Next Generation". 22:40:49 Phantom_Hoover_, okay. I guess you just said that to troll then, if you aren't going to explain what the fuck you meant with it 22:41:06 TROLLING BY SILENCE 22:41:20 yes indeed 22:41:51 pikhq: So, starring WIL WHEATON as COMMANDER WILLIAM T. RIKER. 22:42:09 sudo apt-get install libghc6-parsec-dev 22:42:12 that was what was wrong. 22:42:24 pikhq: Presumably this is set on the Enterprise-E. 22:42:29 oh? maybe you meant that tv tuner card have traditionally been shoddy with buggy drivers? Well, there are good ones. I know some people who are using such under linux with good results. 22:42:43 there are of course still bad tv tuners, but you just have to avoid them 22:42:55 I will get zzo38 to write me a driver for my card 22:42:59 like you had to avoid ATI graphics a few years ago (that changed quite a bit now though!) 22:43:08 pikhq: We need Patrick Stewart... 22:43:14 I would just have zzo38 reinvent the computer. 22:43:59 pikhq: Fuck it, we can't possibly play the TNG crew. 22:44:07 pikhq: It's set on the Enterprise-K. 22:44:09 alise, there's a picture of David Tennant as Hamlet about to stab Patrick Stewart. 22:44:15 Create a caption. 22:44:17 alise, why not pick the best characters from each generation? Spock, Picard, Riker, Data, and so on? 22:44:20 Phantom_Hoover_: I loved that performance. 22:44:28 Vorpal: Because we are Trekkies, and we fucking care about canon. 22:44:36 alise, oh 22:44:41 Besides, Spock/Picard would delight the slashers. 22:44:43 alise, ah I know how to solve it 22:44:48 Vorpal: No. 22:44:49 No time travel. 22:44:50 alise, we take the time travel from ENT 22:44:55 alise, argh you were too fast 22:45:00 ENT had no time travel 22:45:01 Cryonics! 22:45:02 well 22:45:05 it did, probably 22:45:12 but what do you mean 22:45:13 it's science fiction, you can contrive a reason 22:45:18 it was a prequel, not a time travel 22:45:24 everyone else just forgot to mention Archer and his ship 22:45:28 how convenient 22:45:35 alise, ENT had *lots* of time travel iirc? 22:45:38 probably 22:45:42 brb 22:45:46 have all the characters resurrected via some alien technology 22:45:51 ais523, that works too 22:45:53 and set it in the far future 22:46:00 so they've all had a chance to be dead 22:46:02 ais523, even further than the rest? 22:46:10 yes 22:46:10 right 22:46:15 far future wrt Star Trek canon 22:46:30 ais523: the year 3000, let's say! 22:46:33 um 22:46:36 and we could have someone frozen in 1999 22:46:41 who gets revi-- 22:46:43 FUTURAMA 22:46:43 wait 22:46:46 [opening titles play] 22:46:49 alise, ARGH YOU BEAT ME TO IT! 22:47:15 alise, I think someone from 3100 or such visited Archer in ENT? 22:47:19 This episode brought to you by blatant trademark violation! 22:47:44 Now tubular bells are stuck in my head! 22:48:57 cpressey, which ones are tubular bells? 22:49:15 * cpressey hands Vorpal a link to Wikipedia 22:49:59 pikhq: :-D 22:50:00 cpressey, why are they stuck in your head? Accident while practising playing? 22:50:02 pikhq: wat? 22:50:24 cpressey: Dum dum dumdum dum dum dum dum da da dada dum dum dumdum... 22:50:25 Vorpal: Futurama theme 22:50:33 cpressey, oh, it uses those? 22:50:33 Now "Tubular Bells" is stuck in my head! 22:51:03 alise: Thankfully I don't know that one. Only heard of it. 22:51:18 cpressey: I've listened to the whole thing. It's alright. 22:51:19 For some reason, I think it must be like "Classical Gas". 22:51:28 Turkish Star Wars has a sequel. 22:51:30 :O 22:52:41 cpressey: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4eZJh3FFg0 an excerpt of its beginning 22:52:51 It's not anything amazing or anything, but. 22:52:58 It sure changes a lot. 22:53:16 alise: No flash. 22:53:21 I could fix that, but 22:53:29 It would involve EFFORT. 22:53:42 I can't seem to put out a lot of that right now. 22:54:05 IRC is quite distracting. 22:54:21 And also, there are too many things I could be doing, so I can't decide. 22:54:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover__ has joined. 22:54:56 Parsec is a wash. I... just can't get into it. 22:55:22 It's aight. 22:55:38 Well, at least I have it *installed*. 22:55:48 -!- relet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 22:56:21 It kind of bugs me that it doesn't come with a lexer 22:57:12 alise: Why does Neko suck? 22:57:15 I know nothing about it. 22:57:19 Virtually. 22:57:22 Uhh, things 22:57:29 It's just not ... interesting ... good ... uh 22:57:32 * cpressey nods knowlingly 22:57:35 OK 22:58:11 cpressey, just listened to some tubular bells on youtube, and yeah catchy 22:58:26 sebbu[laptop]: I just wrote a line on IRC to someone random. 22:58:34 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 22:58:58 cpressey, but futurama theme is a lot more than just that. Lots synthed music too I think 22:59:08 brb 22:59:27 Vorpal: Huh 22:59:34 I thought it was one long tubular bells solo 23:00:11 Argh, now I have TB stuck in my head. 23:02:07 cpressey, um? Are there different variants? 23:02:16 cpressey, the ones I found on youtube was definitely not solos 23:05:32 cpressey, I can't find any that is a solo 23:06:21 cpressey, definitely synthed music, tubular bells, and some other percussion, possibly also some non-overdriven electrical guitar, though not completely sure about that 23:10:18 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:10:50 Vorpal: The best TV themes are always instrumental solos 23:11:39 * cpressey struggles through this Parsec thing 23:11:45 cpressey, hm..... 23:11:53 cpressey, not sure I agree 23:12:24 instrumental: yes in general, though voice that isn't singing can be used to some great effect 23:12:31 like in the mirror universe theme for ENT 23:12:35 which is indeed pure awesome 23:13:01 solos? No I don't think I agree 23:13:46 "Murder, She Wrote", "MacGyver", "The Beachcombers" 23:14:10 never watched the first or the last ones 23:15:02 cpressey, which season for the middle one? Was years since I watched MacGyver. And google indicates different theme music for the different seasons 23:15:02 -!- Brandie has joined. 23:15:02 Spamming is fun! Brought to you by FreeNode. /join #freenode 23:15:02 -!- Brandie has left (?). 23:15:10 wut 23:15:17 that was absurd 23:15:33 -!- pikhq has joined. 23:16:01 pikhq, most absurd spam ever in logs while you were offline 23:16:58 -!- Sebbie has joined. 23:16:58 Spamming is fun! Brought to you by FreeNode. /join #freenode 23:16:58 -!- Sebbie has left (?). 23:17:02 .. 23:18:13 Strange indeed. 23:18:31 * Phantom_Hoover__ decides to launch an expedition. fungot, are you coming? 23:18:32 Phantom_Hoover__: robert hart, night watchman at rhodes, declares it was mixed with a sort of palimpsest formed after the obliteration of a previous design. in nature it was wholly fnord by the sculptured walls along our route. only when we had passed outside the radius of the campfire. then i half fancied i heard a new sound: common, yet unlike any i had ever looked 23:19:16 -!- aklis has joined. 23:19:23 -!- aklis has left (?). 23:19:58 aklis: You forgot to tell us about teh FREENOED 23:20:19 ^style 23:20:20 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft* nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 23:20:31 ^style fisher 23:20:31 Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) 23:20:40 cpressey, no that was some random person joining due to me mentioning this spam to a staffer in #freenode. happened to mention channel name 23:20:57 and that person was also complaining about the same spam in another channel I think 23:22:15 cpressey, um I can only find non-solo theme music for MacGyver when googling 23:22:22 cpressey, so got a link to the solo version? 23:23:39 cpressey, actually there seems to be some guy who recorded a solo arrangement on guitar, but it seems definitely non-official 23:23:42 given that #freenode is the channel where you report spam, why would a spammer refer you to it? 23:23:44 so yeah a link would be nice 23:24:12 Vorpal, this was your fault? 23:24:19 Phantom_Hoover__, no? Just that last guy 23:24:25 Phantom_Hoover__, who didn't spam 23:24:26 ... 23:29:46 OK, so Parsec is maybe livable if you build off the supplied combinators. 23:29:59 sepBy, for e.g. 23:31:19 Phantom_Hoover__, you don't want to do that in #freenode 23:31:21 Wait, cpressey dislikes Parsec? 23:31:29 :) 23:31:34 Phantom_Hoover__, continue and chances are you will be klined 23:31:37 Phantom_Hoover__, seriously 23:31:45 klined? 23:31:49 Phantom_Hoover__, yes 23:31:52 banned from network 23:32:00 Ouch. 23:32:02 Spoilsports. 23:32:11 Phantom_Hoover__, basically it is a non-joky channel 23:32:27 Why isn't Deja Q in fiveminute.net ? 23:32:47 Sgeo, what is "fiveminute.net" to begin with 23:32:51 hmm, I've almost got the DJGPP build of C-INTERCAL working again 23:33:05 Sgeo, is it something owned by someone in here? If not, why are you asking here 23:33:28 Because several people here are fans of fiveminute.net 23:33:30 Phantom_Hoover__, and seriously go learn about IRC. I think kline was even in the original irc 23:33:36 Phantom_Hoover__, irc rfc* 23:33:49 Sgeo, I nave no idea what it is even 23:34:11 * Sgeo wonders if Vorpal is lacking a web browser 23:34:27 Sgeo, I fail to see why I should open it for this 23:34:28 Grah, I think I'm turning into alise 23:34:54 It's a site with 5-minute satires of various Star Trek (and a few other series) episodes 23:35:01 I see 23:35:18 Sgeo: I'm working through my differences with Parsec right now 23:35:29 Sgeo, any good 23:35:29 ? 23:35:46 Vorpal, many of them 23:35:59 The one for Stargate SG-1's "2010" is junk though 23:35:59 Sgeo, oh, it is not videos? It is transcripts? 23:36:02 Yeah 23:36:15 Sgeo, how can it be 5-minute satires then? 23:36:21 wouldn't it depend on reading speed 23:36:24 ais523: Yes! DJGPP rocking goodness! 23:36:27 *shrug*, it's just the name 23:37:06 Yar: And stranded the two of them on a remote planet? Does this mean Q's reality series is Queer Eye for the Bearded Guy now? 23:37:06 Worf: Commander Riker does not have a beard. 23:37:06 Yar: Yeah, but who knows if I'll get a shot at making that joke later. 23:38:19 -!- Hiant has joined. 23:40:19 -!- Hiant has quit (Client Quit). 23:41:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover__ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 23:42:10 hmm, I've almost got the DJGPP build of C-INTERCAL working again <-- does that mean you had to break filenames again? 23:42:33 I don't think so 23:42:37 phew 23:42:39 but I haven't found out yet 23:43:29 ais523, I seem to remember that the Mac/PPC port had some longer filenames, that had to be that way 23:43:34 not 100% sure though 23:43:48 that is MacOS Classic/PPC 23:44:52 !haskell let i = 1 + 2 in i 23:45:12 3 23:45:25 !haskell let i = read "123" 23:46:03 !haskell let i :: Integer = read "123" 23:46:21 No, there's some other syntax for that isn't there 23:46:27 ais523, did you integrate the patches from my port? 23:46:43 no, I didn't 23:47:01 aren't they rather system-specific? 23:47:03 !haskell let (i :: Integer) = read "123" in i 23:47:05 ais523, some of those fixed generic problems that were hidden due to gcc accepting non-strictly conforming programs 23:47:11 :( 23:47:19 ais523, see the docs included with the patches 23:47:24 hmm, I'll try to see which are portability patches and maybe apply them 23:47:58 ais523, and the path generation fix is generic but only matters on platforms where adding an extra path separator char isn't harmless 23:48:01 such as classic mac OS 23:48:08 where it is definitely non-harmless 23:48:09 !haskell let i = ((read "123") :: Integer) in i 23:48:10 123 23:48:13 :) 23:48:35 ais523, since there could be other such platforms you should probably apply that fix 23:49:25 oh, I agree with portability fixing 23:49:37 ais523, and one fix for the *.l files was needed for any platforms lacking unistd.h 23:49:45 My patch is in AceHack! 23:49:47 * Sgeo happies 23:49:58 ais523, which flex didn't properly check for 23:50:01 Sgeo: it is; when did you find out, and how? 23:50:12 ais523, you mentioned it in #nethack I think 23:50:18 Either that, or you were adding it 23:50:19 yes, but ages ago 23:50:26 and I assumed you'd have noticed earlier 23:50:26 ais523, very few of those patches are system specific. It is just that it happens to work on most other platforms :P 23:50:32 if you noticed at all 23:50:49 Well, we were talking about AceHack now 23:50:49 ais523, the system specific stuff is in the ppc subdir and in perpet.c, and iirc not everything for perpet.c was system specific 23:52:50 ais523, bbl, if you have any question about the patches I'm probably back in about 20 minutes or so. Maybe a bit more 23:53:04 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:54:32 -!- comjex has changed nick to comex. 23:59:41 http://pastie.org/1138648 23:59:59 I think it is, because I think you can encode SMETANA in it, but my brain isn't really working <-- SMETANA isn't TC