< 1283990760 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORJORN < 1283990771 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GYRGUR < 1283990789 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OFLKOK < 1283990896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NGRAA < 1283990897 0 :hiato_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1283990985 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 chars! < 1283991004 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't even count < 1283991016 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you call yourself a mathematician < 1283991276 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAM: the graphics mode of the greenish fringe. < 1283991311 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were a true artist, though, you could work with the medium... < 1283991380 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1283991542 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I "GYRGUR"? < 1283992094 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1283992608 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1283992620 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPRSYJ < 1283992740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BHLMGY < 1283992980 0 :cpressey!~catseye@adsl-99-97-111-8.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1283993108 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOGAA < 1283993126 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable159.218-202-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1283993127 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re < 1283993129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where did my J come from? < 1283993132 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re madbr < 1283993154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MDBAAR < 1283993178 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not quite following the convention in use, it seems < 1283993272 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: i had a thought while walking home... you could implement double-buffering in hardware < 1283993285 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even frames read video from bank 1... odd frames, bank 2 < 1283993296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then main CPU can write to the other bank with no contention < 1283993321 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for some value of "no contention") < 1283993413 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you guys like Go ? < 1283993491 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1283993808 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's not a bad scheme but that means you have like 3 separate DRAM banks < 1283993832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1283994064 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: would be good for something like an architecture based around the Cold Fire (modern 68k variant for embedded platforms) < 1283994262 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yeah, thinking some more, the easiest way to get "no contention" is to really have two seperate buses. pretty wasteful... < 1283994267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1283994326 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283994697 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm looking for a name for fast regexp engine < 1283996624 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: um... SuperZippyMatchMatchLib ? < 1283996675 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how much "no contention" is worth, especially in a system based around fast page ram < 1283996825 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frege ? < 1283996863 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that i finally made something useful < 1283996908 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimizing jit compiler for regexp, how cool is that < 1283997050 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That ... actually is useful. < 1283997053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is it in? < 1283997247 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C < 1283997394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1283997400 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What architectures does it JIT to? < 1283997406 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much regex does it support? < 1283997411 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i could make an interface simmilar to pcre's one and then try to compile projects using pcre with my awesome lib < 1283997422 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd <3 that. < 1283997425 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd integrate it into Plof. < 1283997427 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/using/that use/ < 1283997449 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll release the src soon < 1283997458 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it's only for x86 for now < 1283997467 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add x86_64 and you've got everything :P < 1283997487 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone will help with that ;] < 1283997503 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, brb, sleep < 1283997621 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooga: That's... Frege'n cool :) < 1283997781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /join #ciretose < 1283997798 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO U < 1283998316 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Well, I like multi-processor architectures (oldskool ones, I mean), but I'd rather not think about coordination. < 1283998331 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically i just like thinking about different ways you could do a system < 1283998334 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1283998344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION remembers CGA snow < 1283998353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it EGA? < 1283998356 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't remember < 1283998396 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cga afaik yeah < 1283998410 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, I grew up on VGA which fixed all of that < 1283998455 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither here nor there: you could have one processor A simulate memory for another processor B. A memory fetch from A actually goes to B's input ports. B suspends A until it has computed whatever it wants A to think it read. then it makes it available to A. very useful stuff! < 1283998469 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i mixed up A and B there didn't I < 1283998472 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1283998616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one thing I wanted to try but probably never will < 1283998624 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1283998701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get an old PC, one with a parallel printer port. Wire up a couple of the pins to produce NTSC-level signals (-0.5, 0.5, 1.5V? It's something like that, but I don't remember.) Then implement in software (x86 assembly) a driver which produces an image. The project would be called "PPTV", for "Parallel Port TV" < 1283998722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the hsyncs and vsyncs done in software, that is < 1283998752 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hardware is trivial, just a couple of transistors and resistors < 1283998796 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmm < 1283998817 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need some device that outputs at some really high rate no? < 1283998851 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I admit the parallel port might not be quite fast enough... or at least you would have wiiide pixels < 1283998906 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try to hack a vga mode < 1283998976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh, the parallel port ought to be fast enough, presuming you're intending to produce unmodulated signals. < 1283998987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, you're probably not going to get high resolution. < 1283999015 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since vga has a bunch of timing registers, you could probably get a mode where you write raw ntsc signal to the vga green channel < 1283999030 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then remap that channel to appropriate voltages < 1283999049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And technically you're not going to be producing an NTSC signal, but rather a system M signal. < 1283999074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I highly doubt you'll get color) < 1283999078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unmodulated in the sense of B&W? yes. i figure, on old machines, the parallel port is basically as fast as the CPU (modulo the CIA chip... no it's call the 8??? chip on PCs... yes well ok) < 1283999089 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system M, hm? < 1283999095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Unmodulated in the sense of not on radio waves. < 1283999138 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga is 0 to 0.7v, composite is 0 to 1.073v :/ < 1283999139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System M is the black & white standard most commonly used alongside NTSC color. < 1283999151 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: um, no. Just (what I thought was) a pure NTSC driver signal. If it was a broadcast, it would be, *after* it has been received and ... decoded or whatever television would call that. < 1283999176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: NTSC = color. < 1283999192 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really. Then that book I read was seriously fudging terminology. < 1283999198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: And yes, that's called "unmodulated", meaning it's not been modulated onto a radio wave. < 1283999208 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK. < 1283999261 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at any rate, it would have to be under DOS, because I wouldn't trust anything else to let me frob the parallel port in realtime. < 1283999267 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel < 1283999274 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<= DOS < 1283999285 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest: hack a 640x240 256 color 60hz vga mode, then reduce vga blank to as short as possible so that it correspons to NTSC sync < 1283999287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NTSC is a color standard. One could quite feasibly stick it onto, say, system I (used in the UK) or system L (France)... < 1283999298 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I mean is, NO, I was not planning to do this IN PYTHON ON NETBSD. < 1283999312 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like you can stick PAL onto system M. < 1283999318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is done in Brazil) < 1283999321 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be better with 1280x240 16 color mode, dunno < 1283999341 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /join #tarpits_and_unix_and_modhacks_and_topology < 1283999516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah, and Britain's old 405 line system A, which was broadcast with (at varying times) NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. < 1283999537 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: what you suggest sounds... difficult for the likes of myself. < 1283999569 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could seriously never wrap my head around the colour signal transmission. It requires, like, sine waves an' stuff. < 1283999583 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, not transmission. I mean, even unmodulated. < 1283999598 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I alredy know I'm getting my info from questionable sources < 1283999607 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are leading me to believe that NTSC includes B&W. < 1283999649 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, the NTSC colour bars test pattern is pretty cool, and imagining how to produce it with an analog circuit... difficult but not impossible. < 1283999652 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Aaaaaaaaarrrgh*. NTSC is a standards body, one of their standards includes system M TV. < 1283999660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning one could say NTSC includes B&W. < 1283999671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHAIL < 1283999673 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aie. < 1283999689 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WAS A BOOK ON PIC MICROCONTROLLERS, OK? < 1283999693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, this is about on par with saying ISO includes tea, so. < 1283999701 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was useful but very fudgy. < 1283999788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at digital broadcast standards and sighs < 1283999800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't we have just gotten a single bloody standard? < 1283999847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But *noooo*. US, Japan, and China had to make their own. < 1283999864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then people had to adopt them. < 1283999877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION formats his 4.25" floppy disk < 1284000013 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yeah dunno if it's possible still < 1284000047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And Brazil had to be different too. < 1284000058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adopt the Japanese standard and then use a different codec. < 1284000060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1284000394 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet, if *I* devise *my* own standard and start broadcasting using it, the FCC will be on my ass. Makes no sense. < 1284000446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do declare that the technology behind TV broadcasting sucks. < 1284000468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, is there even such thing as Ham TV? As in Ham Radio, not as in hold-and-modify mode. < 1284000477 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is. < 1284000489 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool then. ONE thing makes sense. < 1284000505 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common TV sets can actually pick them up. < 1284000525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ham band used for it happens to be CATV channels 57 through 60. < 1284000685 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :values of β will give rise to dom! < 1284000792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, it's kinda comical that we're still using radio waves for *TV*... < 1284000822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't it make sense to make good broadband universal, and then stop using giant swathes of precious radio space for television? < 1284001201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but I have to ask: what else would we use it for? More... radio? < 1284001237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: INTERNET < 1284001240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else? < 1284001247 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284001253 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the entire used radio spectrum with IP. < 1284001258 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster wifi? < 1284001265 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1284001288 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then the mobile phone guys will want that spectrum too < 1284001296 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better'n more radio, anyway. < 1284001303 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't stand "Mike in the Morning" < 1284001311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Fuck the phone network. < 1284001315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet. < 1284001325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shall be the only data transmission system. < 1284001378 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but good luck convincing the mobile phone guys to give up their money printing machine < 1284001743 0 :lament!~lament@S0106002312fa554a.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284001810 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament < 1284002029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1284002053 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm broken. Please show this to someone who can fix can fix < 1284002678 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOBCNTRL ER 2211 : IT'S NOT NICE TO FOOL POP! >he 2211 YOU JUST TRIED TO FAKE-OUT MOTHER NATURE, AND SHE CAUGHT YOU! SUPER-VULCAN NOW HAS YOUR NAME ON HIS ENEMY LIST, AND YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THAT FUTURE ATTEMPTS TO RESOURCE LFN 0,3,OR 6 WILL RESULT IN YOUR BEING ABORTED, SPINDLED, MANGLED, FOLDED, PUNCHED, DELETED, AND DEALLOCATED. < 1284002728 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you super-vulcan < 1284003169 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .. line 2706 compiler error: schain botch < 1284003201 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye, schain botch! Mnae aile fnalga pschain! < 1284003219 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ferugan mnair < 1284005591 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooo. thue.c updates the state of the program with 'sprintf("...", dataspace, ...)' < 1284005619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing dataspace is statically defined to be 16K bytes < 1284005634 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll never run out < 1284005707 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and it doesn't compile with DICE C under AmigaOS 1.3 either. DICE likes to generate assembly that it can < 1284005715 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't assemble.) < 1284005826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you considered means of suicide? < 1284005920 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm broken. Please show this to someone who can fix can fix < 1284005927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear se'hůku is quite effective. < 1284005935 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about the extent of it < 1284006021 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cure for the DICE C woes is apparently to not have such big static datas. just malloc instead. < 1284006036 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just said "datas" < 1284006045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data is plural you fool. < 1284006288 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it usually used as a mass noun < 1284006312 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "that's a lot of mud" "that's a lot of data" < 1284006326 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cure for the DICE C woes is apparently to have not such big static muds. < 1284006338 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such muds confuse it. < 1284006346 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: data is plural in latin < 1284006376 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, random() is not ANSI C? it is just widely supported? blargh. < 1284006410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Okay, fine, mass noun. < 1284006416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr the lowest few bits of rand() are bad news < 1284006418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though singular is datum dammit. < 1284006420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284006432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAS A DATA < 1284006490 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in latin < 1284006524 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english, too < 1284006539 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just reverse the order of bits being returned from rand() < 1284006557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's see how bad it is first < 1284006610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayn_rand() < 1284006629 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *sob* < 1284006645 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gneeearrrghlll < 1284006650 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: nops < 1284006713 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english I bet analysis would show that "data" is already more or less singular < 1284006742 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ex: "the data is very good" vs "the data are very good" < 1284006775 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mass noun. "the water is very good" and "we don't have enough water on this yet" < 1284006829 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually damn, everything can be mass-nouned < 1284006839 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we don't have enough mousepad yet" < 1284006839 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most latin plurals don't tranlate to english < 1284006839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have three water in my one data. < 1284006861 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* "the orange is very good" ? (when talking about many) < 1284006889 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's at minimum idiomatic < 1284006904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: it's warehouse-talk < 1284006915 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1284006918 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1284006924 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... kind of < 1284006931 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I guess for those guys everything is mass noun-able < 1284006951 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though there's some semantic transformation going in there < 1284006952 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once "product" is a mass noun, any specialization of it can be too... it's only a little awkward < 1284006970 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're out of laptop" < 1284006978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps not < 1284006990 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: nah, I don't think the fact that "product" can be mass-noun trickles down < 1284007047 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: like cpressey said its a mass noun < 1284007057 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why "a data" sounds ridiculous < 1284007059 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yep. still singular though. < 1284007086 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singular/plural doesn't apply to mass nouns < 1284007090 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1284007093 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "a datum" is still an English word < 1284007100 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "a data" is not < 1284007103 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate you these datas more quicker < 1284007108 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: "the waters were very calm this morning" < 1284007112 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION murders english DIE DIE DIE < 1284007118 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah it's very unusual for mass nouns to be plural < 1284007150 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the muds are different. this one is clean, but the other one is radioactive." < 1284007151 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1284007216 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw it. let's all just talk like jar-jar binks < 1284007246 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish people stopped trying to import latin plurals/singulars in english < 1284007512 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-zen1.htm < 1284007819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooooooo.... getline() in DICE C apparently sucks in the ENTIRE FILE. < 1284007836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's time for fgets() < 1284008379 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is an awesome language < 1284008403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 C < 1284008463 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like nuclear lego < 1284008484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you tack on libgc, C is pretty much great, actually. < 1284008489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But non-GC'd languages are nastysauce. < 1284008558 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soooooo.... thue.c appears to take exactly ONE command-line flag, for some reason. either -l, OR -r, OR -d. NO COMBOS. < 1284008676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libgc even makes up for a lot of the sins of C++. < 1284008711 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND the command line switches are NOT preceded with a -. They just ARE THERE. Sorry, SWITCH, plural. < 1284008716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just get rid of references and C++ is starting to look OK! < 1284008732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1284008785 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: At least they're not preceded by a / ;) < 1284008940 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I used + for some 'internal' switches at work today, to not conflict with - or -- ... taking a lesson from Mr. Povray, there. < 1284008970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things use + to mean "enable" and - to mean "disable" < 1284008971 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@121-73-170-94.dsl.telstraclear.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284008972 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1284008972 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1284008973 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284009004 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: right, so I concluded it wasn't utter BLASPHEMY for me to use it. still, i fear the code review. < 1284009024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaw. The Prop. 8 case won't be appealed. < 1284009044 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it will include "no silly, THIS is how you put hooks into the command line options" < 1284009048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted that to hit the SCOTUS and become a nation-wide ruling. < 1284009093 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The possibility of using / flitted through my head for 0.81 seconds < 1284009106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as Prop. 8 was overthrown on the basis that banning gay marriage was against the US constitution, that would make it legal throughout the US.) < 1284009118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: How about *? %? < 1284009155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And it would've been almost impossible for it to be decided any other way, because of how appeals work. < 1284009172 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YESH < 1284009235 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1284009235 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1284009235 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284009588 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the damned thing segfault < 1284009591 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1284009602 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmm C < 1284009616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: PERHAPS why they didn't appeal it :P < 1284009630 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However, gay marriage would still be unrecognized in Texas. < 1284009645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Texas' law is perfectly equal-rights. < 1284009918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It would be appealed by the State of California. < 1284009971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. The Supreme Court of California is just not *ordering* the State of California to appeal it. < 1284009975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still have the option. < 1284009984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... To appeal it and defend it horribly (as it already has been) < 1284010039 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, if precedent is set nationwide, A) yay another Rowe-v-Wade debacle for 100 years, B) this country approaches tolerable :P < 1284010061 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Roe < 1284010064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never remember that spelling < 1284010175 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ρ < 1284010403 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINE < 1284010520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's technically already nationwide precedent, even though the ruling is not *in effect* outside of California. < 1284010526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, it was made in a federal court. < 1284010536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, the jurisdiction of courts is confusing. < 1284010626 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284010725 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm, la cucaracha? enrinyes. who writes C code like this? good night < 1284010919 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1284010919 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1284010919 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284012937 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1284013218 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284013225 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1284014481 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284014853 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1284018304 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284018447 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284018461 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.35.11 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284019199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1284019200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1284019558 0 :cheater-!~cheater@p54972E0A.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284019590 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284019703 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284019768 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1284020841 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1284021721 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284021930 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284021943 0 :augur!~augur@208-58-6-161.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284022430 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1284022517 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1284022648 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284025587 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1284025900 0 :iGO!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1284028027 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1284028170 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284028455 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1284030517 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284032140 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1284034518 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must.... c.... code!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH < 1284035563 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284036498 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1284038608 0 :Slereah_!~nigger@ANantes-259-1-14-80.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1284038609 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284039407 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1284041155 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1284043118 0 :derdon!~quassel@p5B3E5090.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284044773 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284044800 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1284044966 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284044983 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1284045968 0 :benuphoenix!~benuphoen@ool-182e6881.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284046167 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1284046173 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'help < 1284046175 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1284046197 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1284046202 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.3201 \ wunderbar_emporium < 1284046228 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pwd < 1284046230 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/hackenv.3376 < 1284046266 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls /home < 1284046268 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackbot < 1284046325 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls -F < 1284046328 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awklisp \ babies/ \ bin/ \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1/ \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste/ \ poetry.txt \ quotes/ \ qw.pl \ share/ \ tmpdir.3483/ \ wunderbar_emporium/ < 1284046576 0 :benuphoenix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1284046731 0 :cpressey1!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284047826 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284047896 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn you people! < 1284047912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I spent today wondering how to steal the Pope's hat! < 1284047945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Were you studying something? If so, maybe you could get course credits for that. < 1284047970 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could certainly get something in physics for it.. < 1284048001 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since my best plan involved piloting an RC plane with a sticky net on it and swiping the hat. < 1284048067 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think that a zelda oot style hookshot might work < 1284048085 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, let's be plausible here. < 1284048107 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it carries a not insignificant risk of killing the Pope, and I would get in lots of trouble for that. < 1284048119 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, security arrangement would have time to react with a RC plane. They aren't very fast < 1284048147 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they'd notice someone with a hookshot as well! < 1284048157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also just restore from last save if you fuck it up? < 1284048175 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1284048177 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The popeguards might also react rather violently if you pull out anything even remotely gun-like and point it at the pope. < 1284048199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1284048213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go with a swarm of trained monkeys. Anything can be improved with some monkeys, after all. < 1284048219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Didleidleidleidleidle... duh duh duh duh!" "You got the *Pope's Hat*!" < 1284048229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An RC rocket, then! < 1284048249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... how are those sci-fi tractor beams supposed to work? Maybe you could invent that in reality < 1284048264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local spatial distortions? < 1284048276 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, sounds a bit non-specific < 1284048290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In Star Trek, tractor beams are imagined to work by placing a target in the focus of a subspace/graviton interference pattern created by two beams from an emitter. When the beams are manipulated correctly the target is drawn along with the interference pattern. The target may be moved toward or away from the emitter by changing the polarity of the beams." < 1284048293 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I'm careful, I could end up stealing the Pope, and that would be pretty annoying. < 1284048309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Wikipedia quote doesn't exactly tell you how to build one, though. < 1284048347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could go to Radio Shack or something and buy a subspace/graviton emitter kit. < 1284048352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, invent time travel, and go back in time and insert a metal bit in the hat when it is being manufactured. Then go back to now and use a strong magnet < 1284048372 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interesting idea. < 1284048390 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I may end up stealing the Popemobile and a few of the Pope guards' guns. < 1284048423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ah, go back in time and change the blueprints to use non-magnetic material < 1284048438 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, someone might notice me. < 1284048453 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284048476 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hire MacGyver? < 1284048495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time travel always also has the "meet yourself and cause a spontaneous reality failure, or some other technobabble" risk. < 1284048496 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC rocket? < 1284048529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would need very strong glue to snag the hat, and may end up snagging his head as well. < 1284048547 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I would have exactly a week to build and test it. < 1284048547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate time travel < 1284048558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, me too. < 1284048574 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time I go to kill Hitler, I bump into myself. < 1284048589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: But you get those "frequent flier" complimentary years if you do a lot of it. < 1284048597 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I come back to the present and everyone is a giant iguana or something. < 1284048604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qntm.org/golden < 1284048644 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really true, though. < 1284048663 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are plenty of stories where time travel malfunctions aren't the plot driver. < 1284048675 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They also have time travel, obviously) < 1284048707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before proceeding with the plot, you must install the plot driver. Do you want Windows to search Windows Update for it, or have disk? < 1284048731 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1284048748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals fizzie's hat < 1284048751 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean when i watch a movie with any sort of scifi in it, i have to constantly stop thinking about some detail, because it simply does not make sense, so no use trying to find any; when time travel is introduced, i instantly *have to stop thinking altogether*, there's a special time travel watching mode where i just say "ok" no matter what happens, it's like they suddenly showed 10 minutes of black screen < 1284048751 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-176.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284048787 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] 2335 segmentation fault plot < 1284048792 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there's time travel involved, absolutely nothing makes sense < 1284048794 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1284048811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: For hat-stealing, Gregor is probably a better target. < 1284048824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, good point < 1284048834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, are you and Gregor sufficiently near to attempt a hat heist? < 1284048837 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bodyswaps fizzie and Gregor < 1284048941 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fucking hate it < 1284048978 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SG-1 seems to use two incompatible models of time-travel < 1284049008 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I forget everything from the past half hour and assume I'm watching a different movie < 1284049037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about movies like Primer? (Note: I haven't watched Primer) < 1284049049 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, i don't really mind time travel in fiction, except when it's amateurish < 1284049168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mind time travel if it's in say futurama, but the more it tries to be non-amateurish the more bullshitty it gets < 1284049181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least i haven't seen anyone do it in a remotely sensible way < 1284049193 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that might be a better way to put it. < 1284049212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, saying the exact opposite of what you said might be better put? < 1284049214 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1284049214 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you try to build a serious *plot* around it... fail < 1284049227 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe i misunderstood) < 1284049244 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i am one dangerously confused entity! < 1284049278 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1284049302 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284049361 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what primer is but is it the last one of xkcd's "where do the dudes go" graphs in that one comic? < 1284049380 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1284049385 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have no uni tomorrow :( < 1284049409 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<--- sad < 1284049415 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1284049418 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ tear < 1284049628 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1284049994 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284050393 0 :mad!~madbrain@modemcable159.218-202-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1284050397 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :madbr < 1284050492 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.80.26 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284050846 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284051442 0 :tombom!~tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1284051487 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284051699 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284052121 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284053049 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is now terrified of all things lithium. < 1284053474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes some antilithium for Phantom_Hoover < 1284053482 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even WORSE < 1284053513 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in any case, generic antimatter would have done. < 1284053536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, have some dilithium crystals. < 1284053555 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what that would actually be < 1284053560 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Carbon-1"? < 1284053563 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*12 < 1284053565 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think, in context, "antilithium" is funnier < 1284053734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a new thing that Google's actual main search page does the searching as you type, without waiting for form-submitting? (And can you opt-out without being google-inlogged?) < 1284053891 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's new, don't know about opting out < 1284053905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, it won't show NSFW results < 1284053910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you press enter < 1284054008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit annoying on the not-slow-but-a-tiny-bit-sluggish-still Mobile Firefox (or whatever Fennec's official name was). < 1284054032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you don't want to see results as you type, you can turn off Google Instant by clicking the link next to the search box on any search results page, or by visiting your Preferences page." < 1284054050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, maybe google.co.uk or some other domain < 1284054052 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1284054073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they even have a name for it. < 1284054074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, try google.co.uk < 1284054075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now < 1284054156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tiny "instant is on" toggle helped, fortunately. < 1284054366 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Dilithium is diatomic, gaseous lithium. < 1284054499 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284054649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a dilithium crystal is nearly a contradiction in terms. < 1284054660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is. < 1284054698 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a crystal is solid. < 1284054937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely at absolute zero, it's solid? < 1284054945 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically? < 1284054967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, um, maybe not < 1284054979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there things that simply cannot be solidified, no matter how cold? < 1284054988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, read what I said more closely. < 1284055023 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dilithium is a form of lithium; if it is cooled to 0K, it will just turn into metallic lithium. < 1284055029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1284055036 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284055082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a dilithium crystal is just gaseous dilithium contained in a container < 1284055093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abuse of the word crystal sure, but < 1284055116 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are things that can't be solidified at 1 atm; helium is one) < 1284055162 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to be called a crystal, something needs to have a crystalline structure. < 1284055176 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main reflector dish < 1284055256 0 :Flonk!~chatzilla@80-123-44-109.adsl.highway.telekom.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284055327 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1284055987 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By the 2360s, it was possible to recrystallize dilithium while it was still enclosed in the warp core's dilithium articulation frame using a theta-matrix compositor." http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dilithium < 1284056057 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it say on what dilithium *is*? < 1284056119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an element, a member of the hypersonic series, atomic weight 87, symbol Dt. < 1284056196 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87 is well within the normal elements. < 1284056265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but this is Star Trek. Just look at http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Table_of_Elements < 1284056296 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, 87 is franciium. < 1284056302 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ii/i/ < 1284056303 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@j-214.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284056358 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Star Trek periodic table reminds me of the "Look Around You" one. < 1284056358 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGA SERIES < 1284056364 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1284056367 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes me twitch. < 1284056384 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are there three elements #1 < 1284056390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was atomic weight of 87, not the number of protons. < 1284056394 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disneyium < 1284056402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1284056415 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Disneyium is a chemical element listed on the Table of Elements. It is a member of the Mega series. (TNG: "Rascals") " < 1284056419 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, Rascals < 1284056426 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the stupidest TNG episode < 1284056447 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This requires further investigation. < 1284056448 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm? < 1284056514 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atomic weight 87 puts it into the first few rows. < 1284056531 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am kind of amazed, really < 1284056548 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually, SF series tend to avoid atomic numbers already used < 1284056554 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's usually at least >100 < 1284056561 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they just went for stupid < 1284056584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One explanation [for the silly table] is that with the discovery of subspace, chemistry underwent a revolution to translate the subspace properties of elements." Yes, I guess that purely technically speaking is "one explanation", but... < 1284056590 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With SCIENCE, I conclude that dilithium is somewhere around strontium. < 1284056622 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god, this table is awesome. < 1284056631 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Potatoeium" < 1284056672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exitstageleft", symbol Sn. < 1284056681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought that was tin. < 1284056700 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stoogeium < 1284056705 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groucho < 1284056709 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paramount < 1284056712 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as said < 1284056721 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, most of those were shown in Rascals < 1284056725 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was a silly episode < 1284056732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's normally tin; there's the "Snapple" joke. < 1284056764 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves the way they try to make sense of this. < 1284056783 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahah < 1284056787 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tngonian" < 1284056789 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well played. < 1284057626 0 :alise!~alise@91.104.247.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284057639 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A! f'lorder'lah! < 1284057647 0 :comex_!comex@c-67-188-10-190.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284057710 0 :SimonRC_!~sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1284057766 0 :cpressey_!~catseye@adsl-99-97-111-8.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284057821 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: mnaird feluga < 1284057840 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Effigal. < 1284057852 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1284057887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor has monads < 1284057968 0 :cal153!~cal@70.36.237.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284058100 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1284058100 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1284058395 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284058402 0 :cpressey1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cpressey < 1284058415 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284058440 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284058474 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, are they monads in the most pedantic sense? < 1284058485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1284058506 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever they are has got to be better than... THE OOB BIT < 1284058569 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING is better than the OOB bit. < 1284058710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder < 1284058822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo, are you and Gregor sufficiently near to attempt a hat heist? < 1284058826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheist hat heist < 1284058870 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a hatheist < 1284058893 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: I bet most ppl in here are too < 1284058917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, we urgently need to figure out what the h- prefix means, then < 1284058933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i don't know what primer is but is it the last one of xkcd's "where do the dudes go" graphs in that one comic? < 1284058933 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the OOB bit? < 1284058960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall a mention that it has an unusually well-thought out and consistent model of time travel < 1284058974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1284059032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatheists hate history < 1284059059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo is a hatheist < 1284059059 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sgeo: I bet most ppl in here are too < 1284059061 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail :| < 1284059078 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, possibly, but definitely not everyone) < 1284059085 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: NO YOU FAIL AT READING COMPREHENSION < 1284059112 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are mistaking me for another :) < 1284059125 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, OOB is a F*lc*n thing. < 1284059133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it _might_ be madbr did too, but you are assuming he did when you say "fail" < 1284059187 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well my heuristics had all the data on madbr plugged in and it spat out that it's likely madbr merely thought Sgeo was making a typo < 1284059205 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: you're hristian? :D < 1284059210 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, I'm not sure my heuristics are good at figuring out what someone else thinks someone else is thinking < 1284059210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you and your euro hysterics < 1284059220 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: okay, i may have been wrong :D < 1284059249 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WEIRD < 1284059261 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Posted on Facebook a while ago: < 1284059264 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I challenge you to a duel! < 1284059270 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The winner takes all hats! < 1284059282 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color." (Me:) "Agnosticism is a hat." < 1284059287 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you're making THE SAME COMPARISON. < 1284059289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, wtf. < 1284059292 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No hatheists. < 1284059294 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only agnostics. < 1284059308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anosmics < 1284059311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I might just need you to stand around wearing a hat while I fire a rocket at your head. < 1284059328 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: IN LATIN HOW DO I TURN "X" INTO "BELIEVER IN THE EXISTENCE OF X" < 1284059329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, people without osmosis? < 1284059330 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Why would I accept that duel when I get nothing if I win :P < 1284059344 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have my hat! < 1284059352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weighs your one hat against his 34. < 1284059355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no. < 1284059363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hat is UNIQUE. < 1284059363 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It is the greatest hat. < 1284059367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get whatever Phantom_Hoover steals < 1284059368 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the Hat of Power. < 1284059369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: adding -an suffix might be a good tip < 1284059383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. a thetan is one who believes in thet. < 1284059383 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so [god]an === theist? < 1284059394 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, was that fizzie? < 1284059405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deitan? < 1284059409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly with an -i- in between, although that's probably from the root vowel < 1284059411 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made it out of a sick bowl and a ribbon from a chocolate box IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS! < 1284059458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no -t- in either of the parts < 1284059464 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm an aatheistian. < 1284059467 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe in atheists. < 1284059500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: of course people are likely to just borrow the greek -ist anyhow < 1284059512 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am LATIN! < 1284059546 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: I'm an aaatheistianan. I don't believe in aatheistians. < 1284059549 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, OK, can you use your extensive knowledge of hats to help me steal the Pope's hat? < 1284059559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ... "no" *wink* < 1284059574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I certainly couldn't do THAT on a publicly logged channel. < 1284059577 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OR AT ALL < 1284059577 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Aaaatheistianianian, and here's my friend, Ian Ian Ian. < 1284059588 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His middle name is Aaaatheist. < 1284059598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a theist, you see. < 1284059608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: actually people without a sense of smell < 1284059617 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah! < 1284059622 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any practical differences between atheists and agnostics anyhow? < 1284059634 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yes < 1284059654 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the former are really obnoxious; most of the latter are ridiculously holier-than-thou, and don't understand how the burden of proof works < 1284059655 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Both terms have "weak" and "strong" forms. The "weak" forms are roughly equivalent, the "strong" forms are contradictory. < 1284059702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you know after this discussion you just _have_ to get a pope hat, and start wearing it < 1284059710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm apparently of the ridiculously holier-than-thou camp :P < 1284059713 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: that's just a difference in attitude < 1284059715 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I AM holier than thou. < 1284059745 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The-only-even-vaguely-sane-variety-of atheism: "From all the information we have, I find it incredibly unlikely that a god exists, and also consider that even if he possibly does, it is best to live as if he did not." The-only-even-vaguely-sane-variety-of agnosticism: "We cannot possibly know whether God exists or not! Therefore, just like my stance on Russell's teapot and the invisible pink unicorn, I will sit FIRMLY on the FENCE OF INDECISION!" < 1284059762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I'm biased.) < 1284059763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, GEB: to read, or not to read? < 1284059778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Read, it's very interesting. He's wrong about a lot of things and such, but, yes, read. < 1284059782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Strong agnostics are on no fence. They merely accept futility. < 1284059785 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's definitely a worthy read. < 1284059791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, I see, you mean nihilism. < 1284059791 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, IT'S SO LONG < 1284059802 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Contextual nihilism :) < 1284059806 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes -- be smarter than me, and don't buy a paperback edition. < 1284059815 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those are differences on paper < 1284059824 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about differences in practice < 1284059841 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: in practice, they're just the same as moderate, non-irritating Christians. < 1284059846 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you won't notice. < 1284059850 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you ask, see above. < 1284059855 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a bit of a silly question < 1284059880 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any reasonable-ish religious or non-religious person will behave according to their personality, and assuming identical personalities, the religion shouldn't have an effect. < 1284059895 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but moderate non-irritating christians believe no? < 1284059901 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed the US is uniquely privileged among Westernish countries in having batshit crazy people whose religion affects them like that < 1284059912 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: I have provided the differences in beliefs, and the differences in personalities. < 1284059915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no more to provide. < 1284059921 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Oh don't pretend like you don't have them in the UK too. < 1284059921 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1284059947 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, yes. < 1284059954 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I meant to say "almost uniquely". < 1284059969 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not particularly proud of my country. :P < 1284060019 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Are there things that simply cannot be solidified, no matter how cold? <-- helium, supposedly, although this can be changed by adding pressure < 1284060048 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helium is illegal in all civilised countries < 1284060053 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, they have less influence here, though. < 1284060062 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: ........? < 1284060087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They don't have as much influence as the media portrays them to have here, they're just louder. < 1284060102 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1284060127 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unlike any other element, helium will remain liquid down to absolute zero at normal pressures." < 1284060144 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ILLEGAL < 1284060158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you have had presidents who have openly stated that they view godlessness as inherently wrong, no? < 1284060199 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes ... I don't know how recently, nor do I want to check because that scares me X-D < 1284060248 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile I plan to steal the Pope's hat with little resistance. < 1284060270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here in norway the foreign minister gets slightly raised eyebrows for being openly christian ;D < 1284060277 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284060291 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I want to live in Norway now. < 1284060303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just signed up for my visa. < 1284060304 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have to pay tuition fees there? < 1284060312 0 :augur!~augur@129-2-175-79.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1284060313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably still work at Purdue from afar ... < 1284060395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the scandal i mentioned the other day about ministers accepting fairly large private gifts has actually ended up with one of them possibly being investigated by the police, so it may not have been _entirely_ legal (btw they quickly changed the rules so from now it definitely is _not_ allowed) < 1284060423 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could live off the money from selling the Pope's hat! < 1284060441 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, is there a big Pope hat business in Norway? < 1284060469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest of them have to give their gifts away (to their departments iirc) < 1284060475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not afaik < 1284060489 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could give it as a gift to an official! < 1284060497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then he is not precisely a frequent visitor to our protestant country (he _has_ been here) < 1284060506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, his predecessor has < 1284060604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no tuition fees in norway most places < 1284060616 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Googling "aerodynamic properties of pope hat" will be helpful. < 1284060636 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: were you scottish? in which case you might even get in... < 1284060639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How easy is it to learn Norwegian? < 1284060647 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that I am. < 1284060659 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: very easy, i knew it from i was a wee child < 1284060670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You're an EU citizen; piece of cake to get there. < 1284060679 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foop. < 1284060684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: For non-native speakers. < 1284060688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it has genders like german, but otherwise i don't think it has much that is harder than english.) < 1284060703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GENDERS < 1284060706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE THE< < 1284060708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather related, after all < 1284060713 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ I just signed up for my visa. ;; ha ha non-EU resident < 1284060787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does it have personal endings on verbs like english and german < 1284060788 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1284060789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. English's lack of cases for the most part is one of those borrowings. :P < 1284060790 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUCKER < 1284060791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, I want to live in Norway now. ;; arrive, register at a police station; you're now a British citizen residing in Norway as a European citizen. you can even vote < 1284060826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm vote? i thought there was _some_ delay for that, and only for local elections < 1284060828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, why didn't you do that? < 1284060850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall 3 years, although they may have lessened it < 1284060869 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm pretty sure any EU citizen has the right to vote wherever they reside < 1284060871 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps there is a delay < 1284060878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be wrong, though < 1284060882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well norway isn't strictly eu < 1284060888 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it isn't? < 1284060900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's eea or what it's called < 1284060902 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1284060904 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i elided the difficult part: finding residence in Norway while in another country < 1284060905 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh right < 1284060907 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not < 1284060910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Norway is not EU. It's in the EEA and a member of Schengen, but not EU. < 1284060914 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: try Sweden. < 1284060918 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can vote < 1284060922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same for finding work though < 1284060939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the UK is in Schengen, which sucks. < 1284060959 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it sort of is < 1284060959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK is *partially* in the Schengen agreement. < 1284060963 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but not in a way that is nice < 1284060966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it means we're in the common market for all but a few exceptions like agriculture) < 1284060968 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: but you CAN use it to go out < 1284060970 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a passport < 1284060973 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just can't use it to go in < 1284060974 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excellent. < 1284060979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not part of the Schengen *Zone*. < 1284060985 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now all I need to do is steal the Pope's hat < 1284060996 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Schengen agreement is absolutely wonderful. < 1284061003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an EU citizen, though, you have the right to be anywhere in the Schengen Zone. < 1284061015 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And as a UK citizen, you have the right to be anywhere in the UK or Ireland. < 1284061017 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the only sane decision on immigration made in recent years. < 1284061024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: It really, truly is. < 1284061040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, does this mean that UK citizens have free reign over the rest of the EU, but EU citizens need visas to work in the UK? < 1284061040 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284061050 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. < 1284061051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. < 1284061054 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But put it this way: < 1284061060 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're fucking running away! < 1284061063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the visas are very *easy* to get for EU citizens. < 1284061084 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which is why we have a wonderful supply of Polish people to clean our windows! < 1284061086 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*said> < 1284061091 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Apparently you need to be a Norwegian citizen to vote in parliamentary elections, but if you've been in Norway for 3 years you can vote in local elections. < 1284061110 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That sucks. < 1284061113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And the King of Norway is not a citizen. < 1284061118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: btw norwegian has a pretty much similar mess of phrasal verbs like english i think, just different ones. < 1284061122 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284061122 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284061126 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Queen has no passport < 1284061131 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they are issued in the Queen's name < 1284061149 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So what," they reason, "is the point of having her declare herself able to travel on a piece of paper, if she could do the declaration in person?" < 1284061155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise presumably wants to go to Norway to avoid the NHS, but I have no idea why Phantom_Hoover does. < 1284061173 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: The NHS have released their grip, it seems; but I simply don't like this country much. < 1284061188 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1284061191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, come to America! >:D < 1284061192 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Norway they have blackjack and hookers^W^W^Wfast internet and a saner government. < 1284061198 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I would rather die. < 1284061235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: i elided the difficult part: finding residence in Norway while in another country <-- hey do like the gypsies^Wromanians and live in a tent < 1284061251 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: err romas are not romanians < 1284061266 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :romanis, etc < 1284061268 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to try to kill alise unless he goes to the US. < 1284061276 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck gypsies though. < 1284061304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. The EEA agreement also requires free movement between members, just not with the limitation on all border checks. < 1284061312 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't ever read a single thing about them from any source that even attempts to contradict their image of being thieving parasites with no concern for the society they leech off of. < 1284061326 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As such, citizens of the EU have the right to be in the UK, they just need a passport to enter. < 1284061336 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can they get a jorb though? < 1284061339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yes. < 1284061345 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well the difficult part is getting a passport. < 1284061349 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't Sumatra embed in the browser? < 1284061354 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the roving ones are pretty much that < 1284061363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to varying degrees < 1284061373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... And the King of Norway is not a citizen. <-- wait citation? he might be exempted from _voting_ by the constitution or just by custom, but i surely thought he'd be a citizen < 1284061377 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because the netscape plugin api is a bit of a bitch and it's okay to have applications that aren't part of a browser < 1284061387 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they get proper jobs and such, but its extraordinarily difficult for them to do so. < 1284061399 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the idea in monarchies is that the monarch "declares" all citizenships and whatnot < 1284061401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's some paperwork involved, but it's technically not a visa, but rather a *registration*. < 1284061403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any recommendations on PDF readers that do embed in the browser? < 1284061403 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're under their name < 1284061415 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, naturally, the monarch doesn't need to declare emself anything < 1284061424 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the whole ability to declare things rests on eir power anyway < 1284061432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the thing is that most of those roma/gypsies in norway actually _are_ romanian citizens - they started coming when norway repealed the law against begging + romania joined eu < 1284061473 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284061491 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1284061513 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: a law against begging sounds like a good idea; afaik the vast majority of beggers are actually very well-off... < 1284061522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: blackjack and gambling is pretty much outlawed in norway apart from the state and charity run lottery things < 1284061536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hookers are not outlawed, but _using_ them is < 1284061545 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1284061546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we borrowed that last one from sweden) < 1284061549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi alise < 1284061552 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have sex with me! It's only illegal for you!" < 1284061583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The US, then, is somewhat more progressive. Prostitution is not against federal law, though most states make it illegal. :P < 1284061614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, it is perfectly legal in Nevada. ... Outside of Las Vegas.) < 1284061625 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vivaaaaa just outside Las Vegas! < 1284061626 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vivaaaaa just outside Las Vegas! < 1284061629 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vivaaa, vivaaa [etc.] < 1284061636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Yup. < 1284061639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: as for the romas being parasite, i have a slight hunch that because of their reputation, actually honest roma would be loathe to reveal that they are so... < 1284061646 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284061655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Hooray, fucked up culture. < 1284061670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, a culture based around being assholes to others? WTF?) < 1284061681 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well this is all from people who have had experience with them (in a reddit thread; anyone will defend anything in a reddit thread, so the fact that they weren't...) < 1284061696 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so presumably not self-identified, i don't think thiefs stop around to proclaim their heritage < 1284061713 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Roma live often in depressed squatter communities with very high unemployment, while only some are fully integrated in the society. However, in some cases—notably the Kalderash group in Romania, who work as traditional coppersmiths—they have prospered.]] < 1284061725 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thieves, not thiefs < 1284061737 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the decent ones mostly /actually live in Romania/. < 1284061737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: And BTW. In the US, beggers are either very well-off or very, very poor. Because there is basically no safety net in place. < 1284061762 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What I have read suggests that most begging is done by well-off people who make a fortune off it. < 1284061776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it depends. < 1284061778 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and most of the /rest/ is probably spent on alcohol) < 1284061800 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because our solution to homelessness is to pretend it's not a problem. < 1284061805 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I read an article from a Toronto newspaper with mixed results; some people actually used it for reasonable things like food and clothes, (it was a prepaid credit card) others spent it on booze and shit like that. < 1284061808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or say "well, they should work harder". < 1284061839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: from next month the city of trondheim will require registration of beggars - they previously did than in bergen and the number of beggars greatly diminished. < 1284061862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is begging actually a problem there? < 1284061868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i thought i vaguely read that there was only _one_ US state where prostitution was legal, presumably nevada < 1284061868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahaha registered beggers < 1284061878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You're a beggar, huh? Let's see your card." < 1284061883 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh... I must have left it in my other pants..." < 1284061890 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your other pants? Where do you keep them?" < 1284061898 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In my, uh, house..." < 1284061913 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh, well /do/ escort us there, then." < 1284061924 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Mercedes doesn't come for another three hours..." < 1284061930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is it nearly impossible to walk around without tripping over one? < 1284061932 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I guess we'll just have to take the bus, then." < 1284061936 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AIEEE! [runs]" < 1284062046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Used to be legal in Rhode Island, too. < 1284062066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the number of roma in the big cities is starting to become a little annoying. the only _norwegians_ who beg are basically alcoholics and drug addicts. < 1284062102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are reports that they have started territory fights... < 1284062230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*did that in bergen < 1284062676 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey guys, I'm terrible with trigonometry, would you mind helping me for a minute? < 1284062688 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1284062706 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the problem? < 1284062731 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to place a smaller triangle into a bigger one. < 1284062741 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long story short: < 1284062769 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :α = user input; β = 120° - α; γ = 60 < 1284062772 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a+b = 1 < 1284062813 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, are you having alpha and beta being the angles and a and b the sides? < 1284062824 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284062836 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just clarifying. < 1284062841 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2668/blafz.jpg < 1284062846 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats my notes :D < 1284063167 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and both triangles are equilateral < 1284063222 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1284063335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: 1 = a+b = a(1+sin beta/sin alpha), perhaps? < 1284063446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait... < 1284063459 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know how c2 correlates with alpha < 1284063473 0 :hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284063490 0 :hiato!~nine@41-133-148-136.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1284063504 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk, you want c_2=f(alpha)? < 1284063521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use c2/sin 60 = a/sin alpha = b/sin beta < 1284063528 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yes < 1284063558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = a+b = c2(sin alpha+sin beta)/sin 60, i think < 1284063603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you already know how to correlate alpha and beta < 1284063769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to use the sine law for all it's worth there, and forget the cosine one < 1284063808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: ^ < 1284063840 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so c2 = 2*(sin alpha + sin beta) < 1284063859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no < 1284063872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try again < 1284063887 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pope's hat, Norway, beggars, trigonometry. A most logical progression. < 1284063909 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's talk about 19th century looms < 1284063925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: that's just knitpicking < 1284063948 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you aware that the Jacquard mechanical looms were the foundation for punchcards and mechanical computing? < 1284063952 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, sin(60) is not 0.5. nevermind. < 1284063959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: yes < 1284063967 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is all I know on looms. < 1284063969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flonk: um that wasn't the main problem i saw there < 1284063996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, yes < 1284064030 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was i who made an error < 1284064056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rechecks < 1284064105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Ralph Griswold (the inventor of Icon) maintains a web page on theories that pertain to weaving. < 1284064151 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can he knit me a sweater? < 1284064164 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i just knew some mechanical looms were a foundation. i didn't know *jacquard* looms were *the* foundation < 1284064177 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: figured it out. Thanks a lot! < 1284064187 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Jacquard is the one I remember. < 1284064190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome < 1284064192 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am no loom expert < 1284064194 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, pick a thing in the real world. You can build an area of mathematics off it. < 1284064201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they were the inspiration, rather than being used directly < 1284064209 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i just wanted to say not everyone else knew that < 1284064218 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm a people person < 1284064229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, they used punched cards to store data < 1284064235 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That they did. < 1284064238 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looming data < 1284064239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but used them a different way to computer punched cards < 1284064261 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The holes changed the movements of the... looming things. < 1284064267 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To produce different looming movements < 1284064270 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: if sex had a math, someone would've found it. < 1284064283 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone has. < 1284064289 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for relationships, at least. < 1284064303 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was an xkcd strip on it < 1284064309 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what? < 1284064321 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relationship math < 1284064413 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it was just an integral over a heart < 1284064419 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1284064598 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty much that < 1284064602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1284064690 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I have seen stuff on relationships and the applicability of maths thereto. < 1284064805 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1284064817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread that last word < 1284065083 0 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1284065292 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:04:50 "In Star Trek, tractor beams are imagined to work by placing a target in the focus of a subspace/graviton interference pattern created by two beams from an emitter. When the beams are manipulated correctly the target is drawn along with the interference pattern. The target may be moved toward or away from the emitter by changing the polarity of the beams." < 1284065299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tractor beam is an attenuated linear graviton beam used by starships and space stations to control the movement of external objects. The beam places spatial stresses on the object in specific areas allowing the ship using the tractor beam to hold the object in a fixed location or alter its position or trajectory. While tractor beams are normally used to pull objects towards the beam source, or to tow objects, they can also be set to repel objects. (TOS: " < 1284065299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who Mourns for Adonais?") (TNG: "The Naked Now") < 1284065299 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tractor beams are generally only used at sub-warp velocities. To safely tow a vessel at warp speed, the target vessel's engines must be deactivated to avoid shearing forces against towing vessel. Using a tractor beam can be done at warp speed only if both vessels' speeds are exactly matched. (TNG: "Final Mission", "The Emissary") < 1284065301 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1284065303 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tractor_beam < 1284065307 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REST MY CASE < 1284065432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION throws some gravitons at alise. < 1284065542 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1284065554 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Yeah, but I have seen stuff on relationships and the applicability of maths thereto." <<< see it unto me too, if possible < 1284065584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Twas in a book which I did not own. < 1284065599 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you KIND OF own it < 1284065600 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284065605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a stupid question < 1284065609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what book? < 1284065619 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember. < 1284065636 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284065652 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The analysis was all over how many dates to have in a fixed number before settling < 1284065714 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did a theory emerge < 1284065738 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I cannot remember what it was. < 1284065747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For n dates, it was a bit over 0.3n. < 1284065754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION recalls something like date the first n/e and then settle with the first after that who is better than all of them < 1284065767 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was it. < 1284065768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell exp(-1) < 1284065768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory != solution < 1284065775 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory means theory < 1284065784 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the theory. < 1284065785 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.36787944117144233 < 1284065794 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory is something that has nothing to do with the original question < 1284065796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nearer 0.4 < 1284065829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i cannot guarantee i remember the /e right, although i _think_ so < 1284066019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the fastest RC plane he could acquire in a week would be < 1284066099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're going to see the pope in a week? o.O < 1284066128 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he's in Edinburgh in a week. < 1284066283 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl29-2-0-cust326.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284066412 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1284067071 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: Cool, I'll assassinate hi < 1284067085 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nonono < 1284067090 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We want his *hat*. < 1284067118 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that I shall have a better hat collection than Gregor! < 1284067164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pope >>hat . < 1284067168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm wait < 1284067172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pope hat>> . < 1284067177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadde jeg hatt den hatten jeg har hatt, så hadde jeg hatt hatt < 1284067186 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stealing the Pope is rather different to stealing his hat. < 1284067264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pope >>hat": pope is much larger than hat? < 1284067452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION designs an esolang that steals hats < 1284067486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION calls it "Wooster" < 1284067578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spelled "Worcestershire" < 1284067579 0 :derdon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284067665 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *Pronounced < 1284068036 0 :Flonk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716] < 1284068518 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had i had the hat i've had, i'd've had a hat < 1284068558 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd the hat. < 1284068648 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better in english < 1284068657 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO WAY < 1284068674 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice every second is ha[dt] < 1284068717 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the sequence of non ha[dt]'s is concave down like a frown in length < 1284068739 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284068764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that actually how you define convexity for funcs or do you require monot. < 1284068780 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shows intense knowledgeness < 1284068798 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1284068822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually it's concavity, not convexity, i guess i really should just use frown/cup... :D < 1284068844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn that frown, upside down. < 1284068885 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that would sort of defeat the purpose < 1284068916 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll just say the function is frown < 1284068934 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convexity: f(p*x+q*y) <= p*f(x)+q*f(y) for p+q=1, p,q >= 0 < 1284068937 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can't really not remember concave, if you draw a cave under the hill < 1284068962 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1284068969 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284068976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you meant as an answer to whether monotonic < 1284068980 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1284068996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1284069051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1284069053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the derivative which is monotone < 1284069065 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that defines it for arbitrary vector space < 1284069093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from ... to reals < 1284069140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also define it as the set {(x,y) | y >= f(x)} being a convex set, i think < 1284069152 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1284069160 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284069166 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1284069178 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i believe that's true < 1284069179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to connect those two meanings of "convex" < 1284069192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that doesn't help at all with concave vs convex < 1284069216 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the problem; although again i guess i did ask if you require monotonicity... < 1284069234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but that's just switching <= and >= in the first definition < 1284069257 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or switching in the second but then it's still a _convex_ set < 1284069261 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1284069263 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and that's why you don't remember it, it's the classic problem of memorizing a dual concept < 1284069279 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm hrm < 1284069290 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so hmm < 1284069319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess a set is concave if it's complement is convex < 1284069336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1284069344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they aren't completely dual because concavity is not really "the same thing" when talking about sets instead of functions < 1284069373 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but that isn't really the isomorphism kind of duality < 1284069417 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do some transformation on a vector space to make concaves convex and vice versa < 1284069426 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like take a point < 1284069431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1284069434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't think you can < 1284069448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is i don't recall actually using the word "concave" much at all, at least for sets < 1284069466 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, " so they aren't completely dual becau..." was my realizing that < 1284069486 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saying something different, possibly < 1284069493 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's convex which is the important concept in functional analysis < 1284069528 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd seem like concave functions are the more natural thing, to me < 1284069564 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can have a nonnegative-codomained concave function that has finite measure support, mainly < 1284069582 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1284069585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1284069587 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1284069616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1284069630 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again i don't know much about this stuff, as you might be able to deduce < 1284069651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had a bit of functional analysis but i'm dense like that < 1284069658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory is not immensely clear itself < 1284069689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE DAY SCIENTISTS FROZE EVERYTHING < 1284069824 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1284070811 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@k-213.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1284070957 0 :relet!~hirtho@212.145.78.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1284071324 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1284071592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise, is it now moral to buy Apple products again? < 1284071602 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not certain they actually fixed anything. < 1284071607 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are uncertain, or at least were. < 1284071621 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, there's always another fuckup around the corner or simply not realised yet. < 1284072095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1284072126 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was it immoral? < 1284072139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was this story the original inspiration for starting to talk about tractor beams, or is this just an awesome example of synchronicity? /. "Technology: Researchers Create Real Tractor Beams" < 1284072153 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was the hattheist. < 1284072159 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tt/t < 1284072171 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s|$|/| < 1284072201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: do you know what happened to digg? reddit are gloating about it to an extent that they aren't bothering to explain the context < 1284072248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The way it works, is by shining a hollow laser beam around some tiny glass particles. The researchers heat the air around the particles, and therefore cause the dark center of the beam to remain cool. The result is that the particles within drift to the hotter rim (into the laser beam itself), the force of the fast-moving particles within the beam will cause the other drifting particles to move back into the middle." -- that's a pretty lame tractor beam. < 1284072271 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it may be just a redesign... < 1284072281 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People will complain about any such things. < 1284072284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: it's allegedly worse than that < 1284072326 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find anything worse. < 1284072330 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, some downtime. < 1284072351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implication appears to be a botched migration to new technology, plus new features that are unpopular for some reason < 1284072356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know the details < 1284072375 0 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1284072502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Just in case you didn't notice: I improved the Befunge C-style constants prog to beat Java by two bytes, thereby proving that Befunge is objectively a ~1.7 % better languahe than Java. < 1284072517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yay < 1284072546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor was originally implemented in Java < 1284072561 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION instantly hates Factor < 1284072573 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1284072574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also beating common lisp, pascal, and C~ < 1284072575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C# < 1284072582 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme? < 1284072583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue with java for golfing is the amount of boilerplate < 1284072591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's tried it in scheme < 1284072605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what are the dimensions of that program? 23x5? < 1284072681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, wait no, must be 37x3 < 1284072684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming newlines are optimised < 1284072692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three lines, of lengths 47, 39 and 29. < 1284072703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm wrong again, because ofc the lines don't all have to have the same length < 1284072709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I look forward to seeing it < 1284072712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With two newlines in-between.) < 1284072717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially given that you have to do the base-conversions by hand < 1284072786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still quite many days, I might get around to tweaking some characters off. (An automatic Befunge layout optimizer would be a nice optimization problem.) < 1284072864 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1284072867 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284072883 0 :relet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1284072908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looked at some old Java prog's post-mortem, it was written something like "enum B{B;{ /* code here */ }} because that way you don't need a method, just a initializer code block that's ran when the B.B instance is constructed. < 1284073006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess it runs that, then complains about missing main, but maybe the golf place ignores stderr? < 1284073268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twas this one: http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?base+convert/hallvabo_1282897073&java < 1284073461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "run first, then complain" is exactly what it does: http://p.zem.fi/xxx7 < 1284073527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it displays stderr, but ignores it < 1284073590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do I/O in an enum initialiser? < 1284073599 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, apparently. < 1284073605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that's even possible makes the part of me that's aware of Haskell explode < 1284073607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1284073670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if the spec exactly guarantees that System.in/System.out would be sane in a static member initializer, but it does seem to work. < 1284073996 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1284073998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has an "interesting" termination condition in the IO loop: "for(Scanner S=...;S==S;) ..." -- I don't quite know why *that* works, it never assigns anything to S and there's no == overloading... < 1284074041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it doesn't "work"; it does die in Scanner.nextInt. < 1284074079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't matter since it's done at that point. So I guess it's just a fancier way to write "true". < 1284074092 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1284074101 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alise: do you know what happened to digg? reddit are gloating about it to an extent that they aren't bothering to explain the context < 1284074114 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you leave it empty in java? < 1284074120 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's a stupid question < 1284074120 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they launched 4.0, which, due to a Retarded Design Error, ended up being an RSS feed of about 3 sites < 1284074124 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1284074141 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost the whole front page was filled with /links to reddit submissions' links/ (not the link itself; the link to the reddit submission) < 1284074147 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by accident, by submission < 1284074149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1284074152 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even Digg users gave up < 1284074158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone figured out how to game the system, and it was reddit? < 1284074162 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1284074165 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even gaming < 1284074167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're lucky it wasn't /b/ < 1284074169 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was everyone having jumped ship < 1284074175 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only coming back to laugh at it < 1284074177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1284074194 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interestingly, reddit's traffic has surpassed digg even slightly before that, iirc < 1284074207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's arguably still gaming the system, just a very easy gaming of the system < 1284074207 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the underdog no longer :) < 1284074218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akin to winning a nomic via persuading people to vote for your win < 1284074236 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, the digg frontpage is basically worthless now < 1284074257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Oh! You can, but then it refuses to compile because "initializer must be able to complete normally", and it realizes for empty (or for constant "true") that it would never halt except when an exception occurs. < 1284074277 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, with reddit's steady decline in quality, Slashdot is probably the best option at this point < 1284074299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally only read the comments, on both reddit and Slashdot < 1284074319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the loop actually needs a real conditional, something that "looks like" it could be false too. < 1284074403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, unreachable code is a fatal compile error in Java < 1284074408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit weird < 1284074466 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1284074489 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@173-9-215-173-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1284074507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sometimes wanted to add an early "return" for quick-and-dirt debugging, and then it refused to compile until I made it something silly, like a if (1==1) return. < 1284074535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dirt debugging; for us earthy fellows. < 1284074536 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only reading the comments is quite a common sign of addiction :) < 1284074551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love printf debugging. < 1284074551 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1284074553 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is my favourite < 1284074561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's because the sort of people who are meant to program Java are the sort of people who would ignore an unreachable code warning < 1284074584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: heh; I mostly do it when I need to waste time for some reason or another (often just to calm down after something's upset me) < 1284074586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is Java, it's System.out.println debugging. < 1284074663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1284074696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you about the "MiniJava" language that our compiler course used? It had a separate statement with the syntax "System.out.println" "(" expr ")". To be "Java-compatible", you see. < 1284074719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1284074730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially as it's missing the semicolon) < 1284074750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you about the "MiniJava" language that our compiler course used? It had a separate statement with the syntax "System.out.println" "(" expr ")". To be "Java-compatible", you see. < 1284074755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that"s probably just my fault. But still. < 1284074764 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I load reddit every time I get into an idle loop. < 1284074768 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I keep hitting up-arrow insteas of .) < 1284074771 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is my HLT instruction. < 1284074777 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you're right, unreachable code is a fatal compile error in Java <--- whaaaat? < 1284074781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seriously? < 1284074786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was it here who said they started browsing Slashdot because they were bored of Slashdot < 1284074788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: seriously < 1284074791 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: coppro < 1284074792 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1284074794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not /always/, ofc, because of the halting problem) < 1284074799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but when it can detect it) < 1284074825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so if they improved the detection algorithm it would possibly break old code? < 1284074836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't try especially hard to detect it, though. (E.g. constant propagation is not done.) < 1284074836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, actually < 1284074841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although arguably the old code was broken anyway < 1284074848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes but still < 1284074856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning yes... but fatal error? wtf < 1284074876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might even be that they've explicitly spec'd the things that it is allowed to be able to detect. < 1284074883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1284074895 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1284074896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that wouldn't actually surprise me < 1284074955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {normal} println = 'System.out.println'; < 1284074955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {normal} write = 'System.out.write'; < 1284074955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {normal} read = 'System.in.read'; < 1284074964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it had three tokens like that. < 1284074970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Uuuuugh*. < 1284074990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole thing with "random slowdowns" on my phone was apparently because Palm stuck an overzealous logging daemon on there. < 1284074992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | {print} println lparen expression rparen semi < 1284074992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {-> New statement.print(println, expression.expression)} < 1284075011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then production rules like that for statement. < 1284075031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, suggestion: log that logging is slow ;) < 1284075068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All so that there can be debugging info available. < 1284075136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1284075297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every Java compiler must carry out the conservative flow analysis specified here to make sure all statements are reachable. -- The analysis takes into account the structure of statements. Except for the special treatment of while, do, and for statements whose condition expression has the constant value true, the values of expressions are not taken into account in the flow analysis." < 1284075333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IOW, they have indeed specified what does compile-error unreachable mean. < 1284075365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while(false) {x;} is allowed because the x is reachable because the false is not a constant true? < 1284075376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, replace the x there with something that parses < 1284075451 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The people behind VLC, quite probably the most useful media player available right now." < 1284075453 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1284075454 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The people behind VLC, quite probably the most useful media player available right now," < 1284075456 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x;" is usually a valid statement in the braces-languages, I think ... java would probably bark at an expression-statement that doesn't have side effects though < 1284075460 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> "I have never heard of mplayer." < 1284075480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: yep, you need parens or an = for a side-effect < 1284075492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, that's another special case they didn't mention in the summary paragraph. < 1284075496 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grumbles < 1284075502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: the people on #tasvideos encode with some really weird settings, etc < 1284075514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "The contained statement is reachable iff the while statement is reachable and the condition expression is not a constant expression whose value is false." < 1284075516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they say that VLC is the best at getting the videos right, even though it crashes a lot < 1284075518 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: x.264 guys, I'll bet? < 1284075534 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x264 < 1284075554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: well, when I try to play back their .avi encodings of a 30Hz game, the video plays back double speed, and the sound at the correct speed < 1284075558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which obviously makes them rather out-of-synch < 1284075573 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: .avi? < 1284075580 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should be ashamed of theirselves :) < 1284075584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.avi is a container < 1284075591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can put all sorts of interesting things inside it < 1284075601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.mp4 and .mkv are more common as containers, though < 1284075689 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but nobody who tweaks settings like a freak would be caught dead using something as horrible-to-use as .avi < 1284075695 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as it's quite limited, although I forget how < 1284075706 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tweakers almost always use .mkv in my experience < 1284075711 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when storing H.264 < 1284075716 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although some Blu-Ray rips are .mp4 < 1284075759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasvideos aren't tweaking for crazy performance or anything like that, though < 1284075767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly they're just trying to get the things to work and be a reasonable size < 1284075775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But due to another special case, "if (false) { x(); }" is in fact legal, as is "if (true) x(); else y();" -- the spec admits the handling is not consistent with other control structures, but is done like that to "allow the if statement to be used conveniently for "conditional compilation" purposes". < 1284075778 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eugh, RIFF stores the length of the file in the file (as if the file size wasn't obvious from the, you know, actual size of the file), and stores it as a 32-bit integer < 1284075781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such pragmatists. < 1284075786 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great future-proofing there < 1284075796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avi is perhaps the worst container. < 1284075803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner_: tasvideos actually hit that limit < 1284075813 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: XML would be worse, I think < 1284075820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty impressive < 1284075844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: BTW, to be fair to VLC, it *is* probably the most useful GUI media player out there. < 1284075865 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: gmplayer? :P < 1284075867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notable features include: supporting nearly everything (like mplayer) and not sucking (like mplayer). < 1284075868 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1284075878 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a /speed run/ hit a /time limit/ on a /video format/? < 1284075881 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of game is that?! < 1284075886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gmplayer sucked last time I tried it. < 1284075892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alise: Size limit, not time limit. < 1284075895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very long one, probably; or possibly one that compresses really badly < 1284075900 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah < 1284075900 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, iirc gmplayer sucks pretty badly < 1284075909 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is gmplayer == the mplayer gui? < 1284075910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most video formats are really bad at encoding game videos < 1284075915 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or == gnome-mplayer? < 1284075927 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found it worse than the command-line user interface at least < 1284075931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmplayer is the mplayer GUI, which uses GTK. < 1284076235 0 :alise!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION opens The Largest tar.bz2 < 1284076283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 30 April 2010: Announcement coming soon. Check back here on 15 May 2010! < 1284076406 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1284076420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, I don't know what to make of that < 1284076457 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now the entire contest is obfuscated! < 1284076669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, progress on HackFactor? < 1284076679 0 :olsner_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :olsner < 1284076687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor "Hello world" print < 1284076695 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284076710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`factor "No output." print < 1284076711 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1284076729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works half the time!