00:06:00 ORJORN 00:06:11 GYRGUR 00:06:29 OFLKOK 00:08:16 NGRAA 00:08:17 -!- hiato_ has quit (Quit: underflow). 00:09:45 6 chars! 00:10:04 you can't even count 00:10:16 and you call yourself a mathematician 00:14:36 HAM: the graphics mode of the greenish fringe. 00:15:11 If you were a true artist, though, you could work with the medium... 00:16:20 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:19:02 Am I "GYRGUR"? 00:28:14 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:36:48 yes 00:37:00 CPRSYJ 00:39:00 BHLMGY 00:43:00 -!- cpressey has joined. 00:45:08 NOOGAA 00:45:26 -!- madbr has joined. 00:45:27 re 00:45:29 but where did my J come from? 00:45:32 re madbr 00:45:54 MDBAAR 00:46:18 i'm not quite following the convention in use, it seems 00:47:52 madbr: i had a thought while walking home... you could implement double-buffering in hardware 00:48:05 even frames read video from bank 1... odd frames, bank 2 00:48:16 then main CPU can write to the other bank with no contention 00:48:41 (for some value of "no contention") 00:50:13 how do you guys like Go ? 00:51:31 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 00:56:48 cpressey: that's not a bad scheme but that means you have like 3 separate DRAM banks 00:57:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:01:04 cpressey: would be good for something like an architecture based around the Cold Fire (modern 68k variant for embedded platforms) 01:04:22 madbr: yeah, thinking some more, the easiest way to get "no contention" is to really have two seperate buses. pretty wasteful... 01:04:27 bbiab 01:05:26 hm 01:11:37 i'm looking for a name for fast regexp engine 01:43:44 nooga: um... SuperZippyMatchMatchLib ? 01:44:35 I'm not sure how much "no contention" is worth, especially in a system based around fast page ram 01:47:05 Frege ? 01:47:43 i think that i finally made something useful 01:48:28 optimizing jit compiler for regexp, how cool is that 01:50:50 That ... actually is useful. 01:50:53 What language is it in? 01:54:07 C 01:56:34 Sweet. 01:56:40 What architectures does it JIT to? 01:56:46 How much regex does it support? 01:56:51 i think i could make an interface simmilar to pcre's one and then try to compile projects using pcre with my awesome lib 01:57:02 I'd <3 that. 01:57:05 I'd integrate it into Plof. 01:57:07 s/using/that use/ 01:57:29 i'll release the src soon 01:57:38 oh, and it's only for x86 for now 01:57:47 Add x86_64 and you've got everything :P 01:58:07 maybe someone will help with that ;] 01:58:23 ok, brb, sleep 02:00:21 nooga: That's... Frege'n cool :) 02:03:01 /join #ciretose 02:03:18 NO U 02:11:56 madbr: Well, I like multi-processor architectures (oldskool ones, I mean), but I'd rather not think about coordination. 02:12:11 basically i just like thinking about different ways you could do a system 02:12:14 and 02:12:24 * cpressey remembers CGA snow 02:12:33 or was it EGA? 02:12:36 * cpressey doesn't remember 02:13:16 cga afaik yeah 02:13:30 dunno, I grew up on VGA which fixed all of that 02:14:15 Neither here nor there: you could have one processor A simulate memory for another processor B. A memory fetch from A actually goes to B's input ports. B suspends A until it has computed whatever it wants A to think it read. then it makes it available to A. very useful stuff! 02:14:29 hm, i mixed up A and B there didn't I 02:14:32 oh well 02:16:56 Here's one thing I wanted to try but probably never will 02:17:04 hm 02:18:21 Get an old PC, one with a parallel printer port. Wire up a couple of the pins to produce NTSC-level signals (-0.5, 0.5, 1.5V? It's something like that, but I don't remember.) Then implement in software (x86 assembly) a driver which produces an image. The project would be called "PPTV", for "Parallel Port TV" 02:18:42 All of the hsyncs and vsyncs done in software, that is 02:19:12 the hardware is trivial, just a couple of transistors and resistors 02:19:56 hmmmmmmmm 02:20:17 you'd need some device that outputs at some really high rate no? 02:20:51 Well... I admit the parallel port might not be quite fast enough... or at least you would have wiiide pixels 02:21:46 I'd try to hack a vga mode 02:22:56 cpressey: Oh, the parallel port ought to be fast enough, presuming you're intending to produce unmodulated signals. 02:23:07 Granted, you're probably not going to get high resolution. 02:23:35 since vga has a bunch of timing registers, you could probably get a mode where you write raw ntsc signal to the vga green channel 02:23:50 then remap that channel to appropriate voltages 02:24:09 And technically you're not going to be producing an NTSC signal, but rather a system M signal. 02:24:34 (I highly doubt you'll get color) 02:24:38 pikhq: unmodulated in the sense of B&W? yes. i figure, on old machines, the parallel port is basically as fast as the CPU (modulo the CIA chip... no it's call the 8??? chip on PCs... yes well ok) 02:24:49 system M, hm? 02:24:55 cpressey: Unmodulated in the sense of not on radio waves. 02:25:38 vga is 0 to 0.7v, composite is 0 to 1.073v :/ 02:25:39 System M is the black & white standard most commonly used alongside NTSC color. 02:25:51 pikhq: um, no. Just (what I thought was) a pure NTSC driver signal. If it was a broadcast, it would be, *after* it has been received and ... decoded or whatever television would call that. 02:26:16 cpressey: NTSC = color. 02:26:32 pikhq: Really. Then that book I read was seriously fudging terminology. 02:26:38 cpressey: And yes, that's called "unmodulated", meaning it's not been modulated onto a radio wave. 02:26:48 pikhq: OK. 02:27:41 at any rate, it would have to be under DOS, because I wouldn't trust anything else to let me frob the parallel port in realtime. 02:27:47 wel 02:27:54 <= DOS 02:28:05 I suggest: hack a 640x240 256 color 60hz vga mode, then reduce vga blank to as short as possible so that it correspons to NTSC sync 02:28:07 NTSC is a color standard. One could quite feasibly stick it onto, say, system I (used in the UK) or system L (France)... 02:28:18 what I mean is, NO, I was not planning to do this IN PYTHON ON NETBSD. 02:28:32 Much like you can stick PAL onto system M. 02:28:38 (which is done in Brazil) 02:28:41 might be better with 1280x240 16 color mode, dunno 02:29:01 /join #tarpits_and_unix_and_modhacks_and_topology 02:31:56 Oh, yeah, and Britain's old 405 line system A, which was broadcast with (at varying times) NTSC, PAL, and SECAM. 02:32:17 madbr: what you suggest sounds... difficult for the likes of myself. 02:32:49 pikhq: I could seriously never wrap my head around the colour signal transmission. It requires, like, sine waves an' stuff. 02:33:03 Sorry, not transmission. I mean, even unmodulated. 02:33:18 Then again, I alredy know I'm getting my info from questionable sources 02:33:27 that are leading me to believe that NTSC includes B&W. 02:34:09 Although, the NTSC colour bars test pattern is pretty cool, and imagining how to produce it with an analog circuit... difficult but not impossible. 02:34:12 *Aaaaaaaaarrrgh*. NTSC is a standards body, one of their standards includes system M TV. 02:34:20 Meaning one could say NTSC includes B&W. 02:34:31 PHAIL 02:34:33 Aie. 02:34:49 IT WAS A BOOK ON PIC MICROCONTROLLERS, OK? 02:34:53 Of course, this is about on par with saying ISO includes tea, so. 02:35:01 It was useful but very fudgy. 02:36:28 * pikhq looks at digital broadcast standards and sighs 02:36:40 Why couldn't we have just gotten a single bloody standard? 02:37:27 But *noooo*. US, Japan, and China had to make their own. 02:37:44 And then people had to adopt them. 02:37:57 * cpressey formats his 4.25" floppy disk 02:40:13 cpressey: yeah dunno if it's possible still 02:40:47 ... And Brazil had to be different too. 02:40:58 Adopt the Japanese standard and then use a different codec. 02:41:00 *sigh* 02:46:34 And yet, if *I* devise *my* own standard and start broadcasting using it, the FCC will be on my ass. Makes no sense. 02:47:26 I do declare that the technology behind TV broadcasting sucks. 02:47:48 I dunno, is there even such thing as Ham TV? As in Ham Radio, not as in hold-and-modify mode. 02:47:57 Yes, there is. 02:48:09 Cool then. ONE thing makes sense. 02:48:25 Common TV sets can actually pick them up. 02:48:45 The ham band used for it happens to be CATV channels 57 through 60. 02:51:25 values of β will give rise to dom! 02:53:12 Really, it's kinda comical that we're still using radio waves for *TV*... 02:53:42 Wouldn't it make sense to make good broadband universal, and then stop using giant swathes of precious radio space for television? 03:00:01 pikhq: Yes, but I have to ask: what else would we use it for? More... radio? 03:00:37 cpressey: INTERNET 03:00:40 What else? 03:00:47 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 03:00:53 Replace the entire used radio spectrum with IP. 03:00:58 faster wifi? 03:01:05 I suppose. 03:01:28 but then the mobile phone guys will want that spectrum too 03:01:36 Better'n more radio, anyway. 03:01:43 * cpressey can't stand "Mike in the Morning" 03:01:51 madbr: Fuck the phone network. 03:01:55 Internet. 03:02:05 It shall be the only data transmission system. 03:02:58 sure but good luck convincing the mobile phone guys to give up their money printing machine 03:09:03 -!- lament has joined. 03:10:10 lament 03:13:49 oerjan 03:14:13 I'm broken. Please show this to someone who can fix can fix 03:24:38 JOBCNTRL ER 2211 : IT'S NOT NICE TO FOOL POP! >he 2211 YOU JUST TRIED TO FAKE-OUT MOTHER NATURE, AND SHE CAUGHT YOU! SUPER-VULCAN NOW HAS YOUR NAME ON HIS ENEMY LIST, AND YOU CAN BE CERTAIN THAT FUTURE ATTEMPTS TO RESOURCE LFN 0,3,OR 6 WILL RESULT IN YOUR BEING ABORTED, SPINDLED, MANGLED, FOLDED, PUNCHED, DELETED, AND DEALLOCATED. 03:25:28 damn you super-vulcan 03:32:49 .. line 2706 compiler error: schain botch 03:33:21 Aye, schain botch! Mnae aile fnalga pschain! 03:33:39 * cpressey ferugan mnair 04:13:11 soooo. thue.c updates the state of the program with 'sprintf("...", dataspace, ...)' 04:13:39 good thing dataspace is statically defined to be 16K bytes 04:13:54 that'll never run out 04:15:07 (oh and it doesn't compile with DICE C under AmigaOS 1.3 either. DICE likes to generate assembly that it can 04:15:15 can't assemble.) 04:17:06 Have you considered means of suicide? 04:18:40 pikhq: I'm broken. Please show this to someone who can fix can fix 04:18:47 I hear se'hůku is quite effective. 04:18:55 that's about the extent of it 04:20:21 the cure for the DICE C woes is apparently to not have such big static datas. just malloc instead. 04:20:36 * cpressey just said "datas" 04:20:45 Data is plural you fool. 04:24:48 isn't it usually used as a mass noun 04:25:12 like "that's a lot of mud" "that's a lot of data" 04:25:26 the cure for the DICE C woes is apparently to have not such big static muds. 04:25:38 such muds confuse it. 04:25:46 pikhq: data is plural in latin 04:26:16 also, random() is not ANSI C? it is just widely supported? blargh. 04:26:50 madbr: Okay, fine, mass noun. 04:26:56 istr the lowest few bits of rand() are bad news 04:26:58 Though singular is datum dammit. 04:27:00 :P 04:27:12 I HAS A DATA 04:28:10 pikhq: in latin 04:28:44 in english, too 04:28:59 why not just reverse the order of bits being returned from rand() 04:29:17 well let's see how bad it is first 04:30:10 ayn_rand() 04:30:29 ... *sob* 04:30:45 gneeearrrghlll 04:30:50 lament: nops 04:31:53 in english I bet analysis would show that "data" is already more or less singular 04:32:22 ex: "the data is very good" vs "the data are very good" 04:32:55 it's a mass noun. "the water is very good" and "we don't have enough water on this yet" 04:33:49 actually damn, everything can be mass-nouned 04:33:59 "we don't have enough mousepad yet" 04:33:59 most latin plurals don't tranlate to english 04:33:59 I have three water in my one data. 04:34:21 * "the orange is very good" ? (when talking about many) 04:34:49 cpressey: that's at minimum idiomatic 04:35:04 madbr: it's warehouse-talk 04:35:15 haha 04:35:18 really? 04:35:24 well... kind of 04:35:31 yeah I guess for those guys everything is mass noun-able 04:35:51 though there's some semantic transformation going in there 04:35:52 once "product" is a mass noun, any specialization of it can be too... it's only a little awkward 04:36:10 "we're out of laptop" 04:36:18 perhaps not 04:36:30 cpressey: nah, I don't think the fact that "product" can be mass-noun trickles down 04:37:27 madbr: like cpressey said its a mass noun 04:37:37 which is why "a data" sounds ridiculous 04:37:39 lament: yep. still singular though. 04:38:06 singular/plural doesn't apply to mass nouns 04:38:10 it does 04:38:13 but "a datum" is still an English word 04:38:20 and "a data" is not 04:38:23 allocate you these datas more quicker 04:38:28 see: "the waters were very calm this morning" 04:38:32 * cpressey murders english DIE DIE DIE 04:38:38 but yeah it's very unusual for mass nouns to be plural 04:39:10 "the muds are different. this one is clean, but the other one is radioactive." 04:39:11 etc 04:40:16 screw it. let's all just talk like jar-jar binks 04:40:46 I wish people stopped trying to import latin plurals/singulars in english 04:45:12 http://www.worldwidewords.org/weirdwords/ww-zen1.htm 04:50:19 soooooooo.... getline() in DICE C apparently sucks in the ENTIRE FILE. 04:50:36 maybe it's time for fgets() 04:59:39 C is an awesome language 05:00:03 <3 C 05:01:03 it's like nuclear lego 05:01:24 Once you tack on libgc, C is pretty much great, actually. 05:01:29 But non-GC'd languages are nastysauce. 05:02:38 soooooo.... thue.c appears to take exactly ONE command-line flag, for some reason. either -l, OR -r, OR -d. NO COMBOS. 05:04:36 Gregor: libgc even makes up for a lot of the sins of C++. 05:05:11 AND the command line switches are NOT preceded with a -. They just ARE THERE. Sorry, SWITCH, plural. 05:05:16 pikhq: Just get rid of references and C++ is starting to look OK! 05:05:32 :P 05:06:25 cpressey: At least they're not preceded by a / ;) 05:09:00 Gregor: I used + for some 'internal' switches at work today, to not conflict with - or -- ... taking a lesson from Mr. Povray, there. 05:09:30 Some things use + to mean "enable" and - to mean "disable" 05:09:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:09:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 05:09:32 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:09:33 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:10:04 Gregor: right, so I concluded it wasn't utter BLASPHEMY for me to use it. still, i fear the code review. 05:10:24 Aaaaaaw. The Prop. 8 case won't be appealed. 05:10:44 hopefully it will include "no silly, THIS is how you put hooks into the command line options" 05:10:48 I wanted that to hit the SCOTUS and become a nation-wide ruling. 05:11:33 Gregor: The possibility of using / flitted through my head for 0.81 seconds 05:11:46 (as Prop. 8 was overthrown on the basis that banning gay marriage was against the US constitution, that would make it legal throughout the US.) 05:11:58 cpressey: How about *? %? 05:12:35 ... And it would've been almost impossible for it to be decided any other way, because of how appeals work. 05:12:52 Gregor: YESH 05:13:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 05:13:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 05:13:55 -!- Zuu has joined. 05:19:48 and the damned thing segfault 05:19:51 s 05:20:02 mmmmmm C 05:20:16 pikhq: PERHAPS why they didn't appeal it :P 05:20:30 pikhq: However, gay marriage would still be unrecognized in Texas. 05:20:45 Since Texas' law is perfectly equal-rights. 05:25:18 Gregor: It would be appealed by the State of California. 05:26:11 Oh, wait. The Supreme Court of California is just not *ordering* the State of California to appeal it. 05:26:15 They still have the option. 05:26:24 ... To appeal it and defend it horribly (as it already has been) 05:27:19 Heh, if precedent is set nationwide, A) yay another Rowe-v-Wade debacle for 100 years, B) this country approaches tolerable :P 05:27:41 *Roe 05:27:44 I never remember that spelling 05:29:35 ρ 05:33:23 LINE 05:35:20 Gregor: It's technically already nationwide precedent, even though the ruling is not *in effect* outside of California. 05:35:26 You see, it was made in a federal court. 05:35:36 BTW, the jurisdiction of courts is confusing. 05:37:06 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:38:45 ummm, la cucaracha? enrinyes. who writes C code like this? good night 05:41:59 -!- Zuu has joined. 05:41:59 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 05:41:59 -!- Zuu has joined. 06:15:37 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:20:18 -!- sftp has joined. 06:20:25 -!- sftp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:41:21 -!- tombom has joined. 06:47:33 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:45:04 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:47:27 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:47:41 -!- sftp has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:05:58 -!- cheater- has joined. 08:06:30 -!- atrapado has joined. 08:08:23 -!- augur has joined. 08:09:28 -!- cheater00 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:27:21 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 08:42:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 08:45:30 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:45:43 -!- augur has joined. 08:53:50 -!- EgoBot has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:55:17 -!- EgoBot has joined. 08:57:28 -!- lament has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:46:27 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 09:51:40 -!- iGO has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 10:27:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 10:29:30 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:34:15 -!- hiato has joined. 11:08:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:35:40 -!- Quadrescence has joined. 12:15:18 must.... c.... code!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAAAARGHHHHHHHHHHH 12:32:43 -!- Quadrescence has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:48:18 -!- Quadrescence has joined. 13:23:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 13:23:29 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 13:36:47 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:05:55 -!- Slereah_ has changed nick to Slereah. 14:38:38 -!- derdon has joined. 15:06:13 -!- cpressey1 has joined. 15:06:40 -!- cpressey1 has left (?). 15:09:26 -!- hiato has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:09:43 -!- hiato has joined. 15:26:08 -!- benuphoenix has joined. 15:29:27 `help 15:29:33 'help 15:29:35 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 15:29:57 `ls 15:30:02 awklisp \ babies \ bin \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1 \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste \ poetry.txt \ quotes \ qw.pl \ share \ tmpdir.3201 \ wunderbar_emporium 15:30:28 `pwd 15:30:30 /tmp/hackenv.3376 15:31:06 `ls /home 15:31:08 hackbot 15:32:05 `ls -F 15:32:08 awklisp \ babies/ \ bin/ \ cube2.base64 \ cube2.jpg \ hack_gregor \ hello.txt \ help.txt \ huh \ netcat-0.7.1/ \ netcat-0.7.1.tar.gz \ out.txt \ paste/ \ poetry.txt \ quotes/ \ qw.pl \ share/ \ tmpdir.3483/ \ wunderbar_emporium/ 15:36:16 -!- benuphoenix has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:38:51 -!- cpressey1 has joined. 15:57:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:58:16 Damn you people! 15:58:32 I spent today wondering how to steal the Pope's hat! 15:59:05 Were you studying something? If so, maybe you could get course credits for that. 15:59:30 Well, I could certainly get something in physics for it.. 16:00:01 Since my best plan involved piloting an RC plane with a sticky net on it and swiping the hat. 16:01:07 Phantom_Hoover, I think that a zelda oot style hookshot might work 16:01:25 Vorpal, let's be plausible here. 16:01:47 Besides, it carries a not insignificant risk of killing the Pope, and I would get in lots of trouble for that. 16:01:59 Phantom_Hoover, security arrangement would have time to react with a RC plane. They aren't very fast 16:02:27 But they'd notice someone with a hookshot as well! 16:02:37 Phantom_Hoover, also just restore from last save if you fuck it up? 16:02:55 Perhaps. 16:02:57 The popeguards might also react rather violently if you pull out anything even remotely gun-like and point it at the pope. 16:03:19 indeed 16:03:33 I'd go with a swarm of trained monkeys. Anything can be improved with some monkeys, after all. 16:03:39 "Didleidleidleidleidle... duh duh duh duh!" "You got the *Pope's Hat*!" 16:03:49 An RC rocket, then! 16:04:09 hm... how are those sci-fi tractor beams supposed to work? Maybe you could invent that in reality 16:04:24 Local spatial distortions? 16:04:36 hm, sounds a bit non-specific 16:04:50 "In Star Trek, tractor beams are imagined to work by placing a target in the focus of a subspace/graviton interference pattern created by two beams from an emitter. When the beams are manipulated correctly the target is drawn along with the interference pattern. The target may be moved toward or away from the emitter by changing the polarity of the beams." 16:04:53 Unless I'm careful, I could end up stealing the Pope, and that would be pretty annoying. 16:05:09 That Wikipedia quote doesn't exactly tell you how to build one, though. 16:05:47 Maybe you could go to Radio Shack or something and buy a subspace/graviton emitter kit. 16:05:52 Phantom_Hoover, invent time travel, and go back in time and insert a metal bit in the hat when it is being manufactured. Then go back to now and use a strong magnet 16:06:12 An interesting idea. 16:06:30 However, I may end up stealing the Popemobile and a few of the Pope guards' guns. 16:07:03 Phantom_Hoover, ah, go back in time and change the blueprints to use non-magnetic material 16:07:18 Vorpal, someone might notice me. 16:07:33 hm 16:07:56 Phantom_Hoover, hire MacGyver? 16:08:15 Time travel always also has the "meet yourself and cause a spontaneous reality failure, or some other technobabble" risk. 16:08:16 RC rocket? 16:08:49 Would need very strong glue to snag the hat, and may end up snagging his head as well. 16:09:07 And I would have exactly a week to build and test it. 16:09:07 i hate time travel 16:09:18 Yeah, me too. 16:09:34 Every time I go to kill Hitler, I bump into myself. 16:09:49 oklofok: But you get those "frequent flier" complimentary years if you do a lot of it. 16:09:57 And then I come back to the present and everyone is a giant iguana or something. 16:10:04 http://qntm.org/golden 16:10:44 Not really true, though. 16:11:03 There are plenty of stories where time travel malfunctions aren't the plot driver. 16:11:15 (They also have time travel, obviously) 16:11:47 Before proceeding with the plot, you must install the plot driver. Do you want Windows to search Windows Update for it, or have disk? 16:12:11 hah 16:12:28 * Sgeo steals fizzie's hat 16:12:31 i mean when i watch a movie with any sort of scifi in it, i have to constantly stop thinking about some detail, because it simply does not make sense, so no use trying to find any; when time travel is introduced, i instantly *have to stop thinking altogether*, there's a special time travel watching mode where i just say "ok" no matter what happens, it's like they suddenly showed 10 minutes of black screen 16:12:31 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 16:13:07 [1] 2335 segmentation fault plot 16:13:12 when there's time travel involved, absolutely nothing makes sense 16:13:14 nothing 16:13:31 Sgeo: For hat-stealing, Gregor is probably a better target. 16:13:44 Hmm, good point 16:13:54 Sgeo, are you and Gregor sufficiently near to attempt a hat heist? 16:13:57 * Sgeo bodyswaps fizzie and Gregor 16:15:41 i fucking hate it 16:16:18 SG-1 seems to use two incompatible models of time-travel 16:16:48 oklofok: I forget everything from the past half hour and assume I'm watching a different movie 16:17:17 What about movies like Primer? (Note: I haven't watched Primer) 16:17:29 actually no, i don't really mind time travel in fiction, except when it's amateurish 16:19:28 i don't mind time travel if it's in say futurama, but the more it tries to be non-amateurish the more bullshitty it gets 16:19:41 or at least i haven't seen anyone do it in a remotely sensible way 16:19:53 yeah, that might be a better way to put it. 16:20:12 you mean, saying the exact opposite of what you said might be better put? 16:20:14 :D 16:20:14 like if you try to build a serious *plot* around it... fail 16:20:27 (maybe i misunderstood) 16:20:44 oklofok: i am one dangerously confused entity! 16:21:18 -!- sftp has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:21:42 -!- sftp has joined. 16:22:41 i don't know what primer is but is it the last one of xkcd's "where do the dudes go" graphs in that one comic? 16:23:00 Yes. 16:23:05 also i have no uni tomorrow :( 16:23:29 <--- sad 16:23:35 ' 16:23:38 ^ tear 16:27:08 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:33:14 -!- jcp has joined. 16:39:53 -!- mad has joined. 16:39:57 -!- mad has changed nick to madbr. 16:41:32 -!- kar8nga has joined. 16:47:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 16:57:22 -!- tombom has joined. 16:58:07 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:01:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:08:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:24:09 * Phantom_Hoover is now terrified of all things lithium. 17:31:14 * Sgeo makes some antilithium for Phantom_Hoover 17:31:22 Even WORSE 17:31:53 And in any case, generic antimatter would have done. 17:32:16 Here, have some dilithium crystals. 17:32:35 * Phantom_Hoover wonders what that would actually be 17:32:40 Carbon-1"? 17:32:43 *12 17:32:45 But I think, in context, "antilithium" is funnier 17:35:34 Is this a new thing that Google's actual main search page does the searching as you type, without waiting for form-submitting? (And can you opt-out without being google-inlogged?) 17:38:11 It's new, don't know about opting out 17:38:25 FWIW, it won't show NSFW results 17:38:30 Unless you press enter 17:40:08 It's a bit annoying on the not-slow-but-a-tiny-bit-sluggish-still Mobile Firefox (or whatever Fennec's official name was). 17:40:32 "If you don't want to see results as you type, you can turn off Google Instant by clicking the link next to the search box on any search results page, or by visiting your Preferences page." 17:40:50 Also, maybe google.co.uk or some other domain 17:40:52 Wait 17:41:13 Oh, they even have a name for it. 17:41:14 Yeah, try google.co.uk 17:41:15 For now 17:42:36 The tiny "instant is on" toggle helped, fortunately. 17:46:06 Huh. Dilithium is diatomic, gaseous lithium. 17:48:19 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:50:49 So a dilithium crystal is nearly a contradiction in terms. 17:51:00 Well, it is. 17:51:38 Since a crystal is solid. 17:55:37 Surely at absolute zero, it's solid? 17:55:45 Hypothetically? 17:56:07 Or, um, maybe not 17:56:19 Are there things that simply cannot be solidified, no matter how cold? 17:56:28 Sgeo, read what I said more closely. 17:57:03 Dilithium is a form of lithium; if it is cooled to 0K, it will just turn into metallic lithium. 17:57:09 Ah 17:57:16 -!- augur has joined. 17:58:02 Maybe a dilithium crystal is just gaseous dilithium contained in a container 17:58:13 Abuse of the word crystal sure, but 17:58:36 (There are things that can't be solidified at 1 atm; helium is one) 17:59:22 And to be called a crystal, something needs to have a crystalline structure. 17:59:36 Bounce a graviton particle beam off the main reflector dish 18:00:56 -!- Flonk has joined. 18:02:07 -!- atrapado has quit (Quit: Abandonando). 18:13:07 "By the 2360s, it was possible to recrystallize dilithium while it was still enclosed in the warp core's dilithium articulation frame using a theta-matrix compositor." http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Dilithium 18:14:17 What does it say on what dilithium *is*? 18:15:19 It's an element, a member of the hypersonic series, atomic weight 87, symbol Dt. 18:16:36 87 is well within the normal elements. 18:17:45 Yes, but this is Star Trek. Just look at http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Table_of_Elements 18:18:16 Heh, 87 is franciium. 18:18:22 s/ii/i/ 18:18:23 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:19:18 That Star Trek periodic table reminds me of the "Look Around You" one. 18:19:18 MEGA SERIES 18:19:24 heh 18:19:27 And it makes me twitch. 18:19:44 Why are there three elements #1 18:19:50 That was atomic weight of 87, not the number of protons. 18:19:54 disneyium 18:20:02 fizzie, ah 18:20:15 "Disneyium is a chemical element listed on the Table of Elements. It is a member of the Mega series. (TNG: "Rascals") " 18:20:19 Ah yes, Rascals 18:20:26 One of the stupidest TNG episode 18:20:47 This requires further investigation. 18:20:48 Hmm? 18:21:54 Atomic weight 87 puts it into the first few rows. 18:22:11 I am kind of amazed, really 18:22:28 Usually, SF series tend to avoid atomic numbers already used 18:22:34 So it's usually at least >100 18:22:41 But they just went for stupid 18:23:04 "One explanation [for the silly table] is that with the discovery of subspace, chemistry underwent a revolution to translate the subspace properties of elements." Yes, I guess that purely technically speaking is "one explanation", but... 18:23:10 With SCIENCE, I conclude that dilithium is somewhere around strontium. 18:23:42 My god, this table is awesome. 18:23:51 "Potatoeium" 18:24:32 "exitstageleft", symbol Sn. 18:24:41 * Phantom_Hoover thought that was tin. 18:25:00 Stoogeium 18:25:05 Groucho 18:25:09 Paramount 18:25:12 Well, as said 18:25:21 Apparently, most of those were shown in Rascals 18:25:25 And it was a silly episode 18:25:32 Yes, it's normally tin; there's the "Snapple" joke. 18:26:04 * Phantom_Hoover loves the way they try to make sense of this. 18:26:23 Ahahah 18:26:27 "tngonian" 18:26:29 Well played. 18:40:26 -!- alise has joined. 18:40:39 A! f'lorder'lah! 18:40:47 -!- comex_ has joined. 18:41:50 -!- SimonRC_ has joined. 18:42:46 -!- cpressey_ has joined. 18:43:41 alise: mnaird feluga 18:44:00 Effigal. 18:44:12 -!- comex has quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net). 18:44:47 Factor has monads 18:46:08 -!- cal153 has joined. 18:48:20 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:48:20 -!- SimonRC has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:53:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 18:53:22 -!- cpressey1 has changed nick to cpressey. 18:53:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:54:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:54:34 Sgeo, are they monads in the most pedantic sense? 18:54:45 I have no idea 18:55:06 Whatever they are has got to be better than... THE OOB BIT 18:56:09 EVERYTHING is better than the OOB bit. 18:58:30 Hmm, I wonder 19:00:22 Sgeo, are you and Gregor sufficiently near to attempt a hat heist? 19:00:26 atheist hat heist 19:01:10 * Sgeo is a hatheist 19:01:33 sgeo: I bet most ppl in here are too 19:01:57 Well, we urgently need to figure out what the h- prefix means, then 19:02:13 i don't know what primer is but is it the last one of xkcd's "where do the dudes go" graphs in that one comic? 19:02:13 What's the OOB bit? 19:02:40 i vaguely recall a mention that it has an unusually well-thought out and consistent model of time travel 19:02:54 or something like that 19:03:52 hatheists hate history 19:04:19 * Sgeo is a hatheist 19:04:19 sgeo: I bet most ppl in here are too 19:04:21 fail :| 19:04:38 (also, possibly, but definitely not everyone) 19:04:45 alise: NO YOU FAIL AT READING COMPREHENSION 19:05:12 oerjan: you are mistaking me for another :) 19:05:25 Sgeo, OOB is a F*lc*n thing. 19:05:33 well it _might_ be madbr did too, but you are assuming he did when you say "fail" 19:06:27 oerjan: well my heuristics had all the data on madbr plugged in and it spat out that it's likely madbr merely thought Sgeo was making a typo 19:06:45 alise: you're hristian? :D 19:06:50 of course, I'm not sure my heuristics are good at figuring out what someone else thinks someone else is thinking 19:06:50 you and your euro hysterics 19:07:00 madbr: okay, i may have been wrong :D 19:07:29 SO WEIRD 19:07:41 Posted on Facebook a while ago: 19:07:44 Gregor, I challenge you to a duel! 19:07:50 The winner takes all hats! 19:08:02 "Atheism is to religion as baldness is to hair color." (Me:) "Agnosticism is a hat." 19:08:07 And now you're making THE SAME COMPARISON. 19:08:09 Like, wtf. 19:08:12 No hatheists. 19:08:14 Only agnostics. 19:08:28 and anosmics 19:08:31 Actually, I might just need you to stand around wearing a hat while I fire a rocket at your head. 19:08:48 oerjan: IN LATIN HOW DO I TURN "X" INTO "BELIEVER IN THE EXISTENCE OF X" 19:08:49 oerjan, people without osmosis? 19:08:50 Phantom_Hoover: Why would I accept that duel when I get nothing if I win :P 19:09:04 You can have my hat! 19:09:12 * Gregor weighs your one hat against his 34. 19:09:15 Yeah, no. 19:09:23 My hat is UNIQUE. 19:09:23 Gregor: It is the greatest hat. 19:09:27 You get whatever Phantom_Hoover steals 19:09:28 It is the Hat of Power. 19:09:29 alise: adding -an suffix might be a good tip 19:09:43 e.g. a thetan is one who believes in thet. 19:09:43 oerjan: so [god]an === theist? 19:09:54 Oh, wait, was that fizzie? 19:10:05 deitan? 19:10:09 possibly with an -i- in between, although that's probably from the root vowel 19:10:11 I made it out of a sick bowl and a ribbon from a chocolate box IN A CAVE, WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS! 19:10:58 Gregor: no -t- in either of the parts 19:11:04 Then I'm an aatheistian. 19:11:07 I don't believe in atheists. 19:11:40 alise: of course people are likely to just borrow the greek -ist anyhow 19:11:52 But I am LATIN! 19:12:26 alise: I'm an aaatheistianan. I don't believe in aatheistians. 19:12:29 Gregor, OK, can you use your extensive knowledge of hats to help me steal the Pope's hat? 19:12:39 Phantom_Hoover: ... "no" *wink* 19:12:54 Phantom_Hoover: I certainly couldn't do THAT on a publicly logged channel. 19:12:57 Phantom_Hoover: OR AT ALL 19:12:57 I'm Aaaatheistianianian, and here's my friend, Ian Ian Ian. 19:13:08 His middle name is Aaaatheist. 19:13:18 He's a theist, you see. 19:13:28 Phantom_Hoover: actually people without a sense of smell 19:13:37 Bah! 19:13:42 is there any practical differences between atheists and agnostics anyhow? 19:13:54 madbr: yes 19:14:14 some of the former are really obnoxious; most of the latter are ridiculously holier-than-thou, and don't understand how the burden of proof works 19:14:15 madbr: Both terms have "weak" and "strong" forms. The "weak" forms are roughly equivalent, the "strong" forms are contradictory. 19:15:02 Gregor: you know after this discussion you just _have_ to get a pope hat, and start wearing it 19:15:10 I'm apparently of the ridiculously holier-than-thou camp :P 19:15:13 alise: that's just a difference in attitude 19:15:15 And I AM holier than thou. 19:15:45 Gregor: The-only-even-vaguely-sane-variety-of atheism: "From all the information we have, I find it incredibly unlikely that a god exists, and also consider that even if he possibly does, it is best to live as if he did not." The-only-even-vaguely-sane-variety-of agnosticism: "We cannot possibly know whether God exists or not! Therefore, just like my stance on Russell's teapot and the invisible pink unicorn, I will sit FIRMLY on the FENCE OF INDECISION!" 19:16:02 (Yes, I'm biased.) 19:16:03 alise, GEB: to read, or not to read? 19:16:18 Phantom_Hoover: Read, it's very interesting. He's wrong about a lot of things and such, but, yes, read. 19:16:22 alise: Strong agnostics are on no fence. They merely accept futility. 19:16:25 It's definitely a worthy read. 19:16:31 Gregor: Oh, I see, you mean nihilism. 19:16:31 alise, IT'S SO LONG 19:16:42 alise: Contextual nihilism :) 19:16:46 Phantom_Hoover: Yes -- be smarter than me, and don't buy a paperback edition. 19:16:55 yeah those are differences on paper 19:17:04 I'm talking about differences in practice 19:17:21 madbr: in practice, they're just the same as moderate, non-irritating Christians. 19:17:26 i.e. you won't notice. 19:17:30 if you ask, see above. 19:17:35 so it's a bit of a silly question 19:18:00 any reasonable-ish religious or non-religious person will behave according to their personality, and assuming identical personalities, the religion shouldn't have an effect. 19:18:15 but moderate non-irritating christians believe no? 19:18:21 indeed the US is uniquely privileged among Westernish countries in having batshit crazy people whose religion affects them like that 19:18:32 madbr: I have provided the differences in beliefs, and the differences in personalities. 19:18:35 There is no more to provide. 19:18:41 alise: Oh don't pretend like you don't have them in the UK too. 19:18:41 mhm 19:19:07 Gregor: Yes, yes. 19:19:14 Gregor: I meant to say "almost uniquely". 19:19:29 Gregor: I'm not particularly proud of my country. :P 19:20:19 Are there things that simply cannot be solidified, no matter how cold? <-- helium, supposedly, although this can be changed by adding pressure 19:20:48 helium is illegal in all civilised countries 19:20:53 alise, they have less influence here, though. 19:21:02 alise: ........? 19:21:27 Phantom_Hoover: They don't have as much influence as the media portrays them to have here, they're just louder. 19:21:42 I suppose. 19:22:07 "Unlike any other element, helium will remain liquid down to absolute zero at normal pressures." 19:22:24 Gregor: ILLEGAL 19:22:38 But you have had presidents who have openly stated that they view godlessness as inherently wrong, no? 19:23:19 Phantom_Hoover: Yes ... I don't know how recently, nor do I want to check because that scares me X-D 19:24:08 Meanwhile I plan to steal the Pope's hat with little resistance. 19:24:30 here in norway the foreign minister gets slightly raised eyebrows for being openly christian ;D 19:24:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:24:51 oerjan, I want to live in Norway now. 19:25:03 I just signed up for my visa. 19:25:04 Do I have to pay tuition fees there? 19:25:12 -!- augur has joined. 19:25:13 I could probably still work at Purdue from afar ... 19:26:35 btw the scandal i mentioned the other day about ministers accepting fairly large private gifts has actually ended up with one of them possibly being investigated by the police, so it may not have been _entirely_ legal (btw they quickly changed the rules so from now it definitely is _not_ allowed) 19:27:03 I could live off the money from selling the Pope's hat! 19:27:21 oerjan, is there a big Pope hat business in Norway? 19:27:49 and the rest of them have to give their gifts away (to their departments iirc) 19:27:55 Phantom_Hoover: not afaik 19:28:09 I could give it as a gift to an official! 19:28:17 but then he is not precisely a frequent visitor to our protestant country (he _has_ been here) 19:28:26 or wait, his predecessor has 19:30:04 Phantom_Hoover: no tuition fees in norway most places 19:30:16 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if Googling "aerodynamic properties of pope hat" will be helpful. 19:30:36 Phantom_Hoover: were you scottish? in which case you might even get in... 19:30:39 oerjan: How easy is it to learn Norwegian? 19:30:47 oerjan, that I am. 19:30:59 pikhq: very easy, i knew it from i was a wee child 19:31:10 Phantom_Hoover: You're an EU citizen; piece of cake to get there. 19:31:19 Foop. 19:31:24 oerjan: For non-native speakers. 19:31:28 (it has genders like german, but otherwise i don't think it has much that is harder than english.) 19:31:43 GENDERS 19:31:46 I HATE THE< 19:31:48 it is rather related, after all 19:31:53 s/ Different branch of the Germanic languages, though. 19:32:24 (granted, English has borrowed massive chunks from North Germanic languages, but it's still *West* Germanic.) 19:32:41 it does _not_ have cases like german 19:32:50 I just signed up for my visa. ;; ha ha non-EU resident 19:33:07 nor does it have personal endings on verbs like english and german 19:33:08 Hahaha 19:33:09 Yes. English's lack of cases for the most part is one of those borrowings. :P 19:33:10 SUCKER 19:33:11 oerjan, I want to live in Norway now. ;; arrive, register at a police station; you're now a British citizen residing in Norway as a European citizen. you can even vote 19:33:46 erm vote? i thought there was _some_ delay for that, and only for local elections 19:33:48 alise, why didn't you do that? 19:34:10 i vaguely recall 3 years, although they may have lessened it 19:34:29 oerjan: i'm pretty sure any EU citizen has the right to vote wherever they reside 19:34:31 perhaps there is a delay 19:34:38 i may be wrong, though 19:34:42 alise: well norway isn't strictly eu 19:34:48 oerjan: it isn't? 19:35:00 no, it's eea or what it's called 19:35:02 No. 19:35:04 Sgeo: i elided the difficult part: finding residence in Norway while in another country 19:35:05 oerjan: oh right 19:35:07 It is not 19:35:10 alise: Norway is not EU. It's in the EEA and a member of Schengen, but not EU. 19:35:14 Phantom_Hoover: try Sweden. 19:35:18 you can vote 19:35:22 that's the same for finding work though 19:35:39 I don't think the UK is in Schengen, which sucks. 19:35:59 Phantom_Hoover: it sort of is 19:35:59 The UK is *partially* in the Schengen agreement. 19:36:03 it is, but not in a way that is nice 19:36:06 (it means we're in the common market for all but a few exceptions like agriculture) 19:36:08 Phantom_Hoover: but you CAN use it to go out 19:36:10 if you have a passport 19:36:13 people just can't use it to go in 19:36:14 Excellent. 19:36:19 It's just not part of the Schengen *Zone*. 19:36:25 Now all I need to do is steal the Pope's hat 19:36:36 The Schengen agreement is absolutely wonderful. 19:36:43 As an EU citizen, though, you have the right to be anywhere in the Schengen Zone. 19:36:55 ... And as a UK citizen, you have the right to be anywhere in the UK or Ireland. 19:36:57 Perhaps the only sane decision on immigration made in recent years. 19:37:04 alise: It really, truly is. 19:37:20 Wait, does this mean that UK citizens have free reign over the rest of the EU, but EU citizens need visas to work in the UK? 19:37:20 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:37:30 Gregor: Yes. 19:37:31 Gregor: Yes. 19:37:34 Gregor: But put it this way: 19:37:40 We're fucking running away! 19:37:43 Though the visas are very *easy* to get for EU citizens. 19:38:04 pikhq: Which is why we have a wonderful supply of Polish people to clean our windows! 19:38:06 *said> 19:38:11 oerjan: Apparently you need to be a Norwegian citizen to vote in parliamentary elections, but if you've been in Norway for 3 years you can vote in local elections. 19:38:30 pikhq: That sucks. 19:38:33 ... And the King of Norway is not a citizen. 19:38:38 pikhq: btw norwegian has a pretty much similar mess of phrasal verbs like english i think, just different ones. 19:38:42 -!- wareya has joined. 19:38:42 xD 19:38:46 the Queen has no passport 19:38:51 as they are issued in the Queen's name 19:39:09 "So what," they reason, "is the point of having her declare herself able to travel on a piece of paper, if she could do the declaration in person?" 19:39:15 alise presumably wants to go to Norway to avoid the NHS, but I have no idea why Phantom_Hoover does. 19:39:33 Phantom_Hoover: The NHS have released their grip, it seems; but I simply don't like this country much. 19:39:48 Why? 19:39:51 alise, come to America! >:D 19:39:52 In Norway they have blackjack and hookers^W^W^Wfast internet and a saner government. 19:39:58 Sgeo: I would rather die. 19:40:35 Sgeo: i elided the difficult part: finding residence in Norway while in another country <-- hey do like the gypsies^Wromanians and live in a tent 19:40:51 oerjan: err romas are not romanians 19:41:06 romanis, etc 19:41:08 * Phantom_Hoover decides to try to kill alise unless he goes to the US. 19:41:16 fuck gypsies though. 19:41:44 Oh, wait. The EEA agreement also requires free movement between members, just not with the limitation on all border checks. 19:41:52 I haven't ever read a single thing about them from any source that even attempts to contradict their image of being thieving parasites with no concern for the society they leech off of. 19:42:06 As such, citizens of the EU have the right to be in the UK, they just need a passport to enter. 19:42:16 pikhq: can they get a jorb though? 19:42:19 alise: Yes. 19:42:25 pikhq: well the difficult part is getting a passport. 19:42:29 Why doesn't Sumatra embed in the browser? 19:42:34 alise: the roving ones are pretty much that 19:42:43 to varying degrees 19:42:53 ... And the King of Norway is not a citizen. <-- wait citation? he might be exempted from _voting_ by the constitution or just by custom, but i surely thought he'd be a citizen 19:42:57 Sgeo: because the netscape plugin api is a bit of a bitch and it's okay to have applications that aren't part of a browser 19:43:07 sometimes they get proper jobs and such, but its extraordinarily difficult for them to do so. 19:43:19 oerjan: the idea in monarchies is that the monarch "declares" all citizenships and whatnot 19:43:21 Oh, there's some paperwork involved, but it's technically not a visa, but rather a *registration*. 19:43:23 Any recommendations on PDF readers that do embed in the browser? 19:43:23 so they're under their name 19:43:35 so, naturally, the monarch doesn't need to declare emself anything 19:43:44 as the whole ability to declare things rests on eir power anyway 19:43:52 alise: the thing is that most of those roma/gypsies in norway actually _are_ romanian citizens - they started coming when norway repealed the law against begging + romania joined eu 19:44:33 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:44:51 hi ais523 19:45:13 oerjan: a law against begging sounds like a good idea; afaik the vast majority of beggers are actually very well-off... 19:45:22 alise: blackjack and gambling is pretty much outlawed in norway apart from the state and charity run lottery things 19:45:36 hookers are not outlawed, but _using_ them is 19:45:45 xD 19:45:46 (we borrowed that last one from sweden) 19:45:49 hi alise 19:45:52 "Have sex with me! It's only illegal for you!" 19:46:23 oerjan: The US, then, is somewhat more progressive. Prostitution is not against federal law, though most states make it illegal. :P 19:46:54 (for instance, it is perfectly legal in Nevada. ... Outside of Las Vegas.) 19:47:05 Vivaaaaa just outside Las Vegas! 19:47:06 Vivaaaaa just outside Las Vegas! 19:47:09 Vivaaa, vivaaa [etc.] 19:47:16 alise: Yup. 19:47:19 alise: as for the romas being parasite, i have a slight hunch that because of their reputation, actually honest roma would be loathe to reveal that they are so... 19:47:26 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:47:35 oerjan: Hooray, fucked up culture. 19:47:50 (seriously, a culture based around being assholes to others? WTF?) 19:48:01 oerjan: well this is all from people who have had experience with them (in a reddit thread; anyone will defend anything in a reddit thread, so the fact that they weren't...) 19:48:16 oerjan: so presumably not self-identified, i don't think thiefs stop around to proclaim their heritage 19:48:33 [[Roma live often in depressed squatter communities with very high unemployment, while only some are fully integrated in the society. However, in some cases—notably the Kalderash group in Romania, who work as traditional coppersmiths—they have prospered.]] 19:48:45 *thieves, not thiefs 19:48:57 I imagine the decent ones mostly /actually live in Romania/. 19:48:57 alise: And BTW. In the US, beggers are either very well-off or very, very poor. Because there is basically no safety net in place. 19:49:22 pikhq: What I have read suggests that most begging is done by well-off people who make a fortune off it. 19:49:36 Here it depends. 19:49:38 (and most of the /rest/ is probably spent on alcohol) 19:50:00 Because our solution to homelessness is to pretend it's not a problem. 19:50:05 pikhq: I read an article from a Toronto newspaper with mixed results; some people actually used it for reasonable things like food and clothes, (it was a prepaid credit card) others spent it on booze and shit like that. 19:50:08 Or say "well, they should work harder". 19:50:39 alise: from next month the city of trondheim will require registration of beggars - they previously did than in bergen and the number of beggars greatly diminished. 19:51:02 oerjan: Is begging actually a problem there? 19:51:08 pikhq: i thought i vaguely read that there was only _one_ US state where prostitution was legal, presumably nevada 19:51:08 gahaha registered beggers 19:51:18 "You're a beggar, huh? Let's see your card." 19:51:23 "Uh... I must have left it in my other pants..." 19:51:30 "Your other pants? Where do you keep them?" 19:51:38 "In my, uh, house..." 19:51:53 "Oh, well /do/ escort us there, then." 19:52:04 "The Mercedes doesn't come for another three hours..." 19:52:10 I mean, is it nearly impossible to walk around without tripping over one? 19:52:12 "I guess we'll just have to take the bus, then." 19:52:16 "AIEEE! [runs]" 19:54:06 oerjan: Used to be legal in Rhode Island, too. 19:54:26 pikhq: the number of roma in the big cities is starting to become a little annoying. the only _norwegians_ who beg are basically alcoholics and drug addicts. 19:55:02 also there are reports that they have started territory fights... 19:57:10 *did that in bergen 20:04:36 Hey guys, I'm terrible with trigonometry, would you mind helping me for a minute? 20:04:48 OK. 20:05:06 What's the problem? 20:05:31 I want to place a smaller triangle into a bigger one. 20:05:41 Long story short: 20:06:09 α = user input; β = 120° - α; γ = 60 20:06:12 and a+b = 1 20:06:53 Wait, are you having alpha and beta being the angles and a and b the sides? 20:07:04 yes 20:07:16 Just clarifying. 20:07:21 http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2668/blafz.jpg 20:07:26 thats my notes :D 20:12:47 yeah, and both triangles are equilateral 20:13:42 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:15:35 Flonk: 1 = a+b = a(1+sin beta/sin alpha), perhaps? 20:17:26 or wait... 20:17:39 I want to know how c2 correlates with alpha 20:17:53 -!- hiato has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:18:10 -!- hiato has joined. 20:18:24 Flonk, you want c_2=f(alpha)? 20:18:41 use c2/sin 60 = a/sin alpha = b/sin beta 20:18:48 Phantom_Hoover: yes 20:19:18 1 = a+b = c2(sin alpha+sin beta)/sin 60, i think 20:20:03 and you already know how to correlate alpha and beta 20:22:49 you just need to use the sine law for all it's worth there, and forget the cosine one 20:23:28 Flonk: ^ 20:24:00 oerjan: so c2 = 2*(sin alpha + sin beta) 20:24:19 um no 20:24:32 try again 20:24:47 The Pope's hat, Norway, beggars, trigonometry. A most logical progression. 20:25:09 Let's talk about 19th century looms 20:25:25 Slereah: that's just knitpicking 20:25:48 Are you aware that the Jacquard mechanical looms were the foundation for punchcards and mechanical computing? 20:25:52 oerjan: oh, sin(60) is not 0.5. nevermind. 20:25:59 Slereah: yes 20:26:07 That is all I know on looms. 20:26:09 Flonk: um that wasn't the main problem i saw there 20:26:36 Slereah, yes 20:27:10 unless it was i who made an error 20:27:36 * oerjan rechecks 20:28:25 Slereah: Ralph Griswold (the inventor of Icon) maintains a web page on theories that pertain to weaving. 20:29:11 Can he knit me a sweater? 20:29:24 Slereah: i just knew some mechanical looms were a foundation. i didn't know *jacquard* looms were *the* foundation 20:29:37 oerjan: figured it out. Thanks a lot! 20:29:47 Well, Jacquard is the one I remember. 20:29:50 you're welcome 20:29:52 I am no loom expert 20:29:54 cpressey, pick a thing in the real world. You can build an area of mathematics off it. 20:30:01 I thought they were the inspiration, rather than being used directly 20:30:09 Slereah: i just wanted to say not everyone else knew that 20:30:18 because i'm a people person 20:30:29 as in, they used punched cards to store data 20:30:35 That they did. 20:30:38 Looming data 20:30:39 but used them a different way to computer punched cards 20:31:01 The holes changed the movements of the... looming things. 20:31:07 To produce different looming movements 20:31:10 Phantom_Hoover: if sex had a math, someone would've found it. 20:31:23 Someone has. 20:31:29 Well, for relationships, at least. 20:31:43 There was an xkcd strip on it 20:31:49 on what? 20:32:01 Relationship math 20:33:33 i'm sure it was just an integral over a heart 20:33:39 or something 20:36:38 it was pretty much that 20:36:42 :) 20:38:10 Yeah, but I have seen stuff on relationships and the applicability of maths thereto. 20:40:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:40:17 * oerjan misread that last word 20:44:43 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 20:48:12 08:04:50 "In Star Trek, tractor beams are imagined to work by placing a target in the focus of a subspace/graviton interference pattern created by two beams from an emitter. When the beams are manipulated correctly the target is drawn along with the interference pattern. The target may be moved toward or away from the emitter by changing the polarity of the beams." 20:48:19 A tractor beam is an attenuated linear graviton beam used by starships and space stations to control the movement of external objects. The beam places spatial stresses on the object in specific areas allowing the ship using the tractor beam to hold the object in a fixed location or alter its position or trajectory. While tractor beams are normally used to pull objects towards the beam source, or to tow objects, they can also be set to repel objects. (TOS: " 20:48:19 Who Mourns for Adonais?") (TNG: "The Naked Now") 20:48:19 Tractor beams are generally only used at sub-warp velocities. To safely tow a vessel at warp speed, the target vessel's engines must be deactivated to avoid shearing forces against towing vessel. Using a tractor beam can be done at warp speed only if both vessels' speeds are exactly matched. (TNG: "Final Mission", "The Emissary") 20:48:21 ... 20:48:23 http://memory-alpha.org/wiki/Tractor_beam 20:48:27 I REST MY CASE 20:50:32 * Phantom_Hoover throws some gravitons at alise. 20:52:22 -!- Behold has joined. 20:52:34 " Yeah, but I have seen stuff on relationships and the applicability of maths thereto." <<< see it unto me too, if possible 20:53:04 'Twas in a book which I did not own. 20:53:19 but did you KIND OF own it 20:53:20 wait 20:53:25 that's a stupid question 20:53:29 what book? 20:53:39 I can't remember. 20:53:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 20:54:12 The analysis was all over how many dates to have in a fixed number before settling 20:55:14 and did a theory emerge 20:55:38 Yes, but I cannot remember what it was. 20:55:47 For n dates, it was a bit over 0.3n. 20:55:54 * oerjan recalls something like date the first n/e and then settle with the first after that who is better than all of them 20:56:07 Yeah, that was it. 20:56:08 !haskell exp(-1) 20:56:08 theory != solution 20:56:15 theory means theory 20:56:24 I don't know the theory. 20:56:25 0.36787944117144233 20:56:34 theory is something that has nothing to do with the original question 20:56:36 Oh, nearer 0.4 20:57:09 well i cannot guarantee i remember the /e right, although i _think_ so 21:00:19 * Phantom_Hoover wonders what the fastest RC plane he could acquire in a week would be 21:01:39 You're going to see the pope in a week? o.O 21:02:08 Well, he's in Edinburgh in a week. 21:04:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 21:06:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 21:17:51 Phantom_Hoover_: Cool, I'll assassinate hi 21:18:05 Nonono 21:18:10 We want his *hat*. 21:18:38 So that I shall have a better hat collection than Gregor! 21:19:24 pope >>hat . 21:19:28 erm wait 21:19:32 pope hat>> . 21:19:37 hadde jeg hatt den hatten jeg har hatt, så hadde jeg hatt hatt 21:19:46 Well, stealing the Pope is rather different to stealing his hat. 21:21:04 "pope >>hat": pope is much larger than hat? 21:24:12 * cpressey designs an esolang that steals hats 21:24:46 * cpressey calls it "Wooster" 21:26:18 Spelled "Worcestershire" 21:26:19 -!- derdon has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:27:45 Gregor: *Pronounced 21:33:56 -!- Flonk has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.8/20100722155716]). 21:41:58 had i had the hat i've had, i'd've had a hat 21:42:38 I'd the hat. 21:44:08 better in english 21:44:17 NO WAY 21:44:34 notice every second is ha[dt] 21:45:17 and that the sequence of non ha[dt]'s is concave down like a frown in length 21:45:39 wait 21:46:04 is that actually how you define convexity for funcs or do you require monot. 21:46:20 * oklofok shows intense knowledgeness 21:46:38 err 21:47:02 and actually it's concavity, not convexity, i guess i really should just use frown/cup... :D 21:47:24 Turn that frown, upside down. 21:48:05 ...that would sort of defeat the purpose 21:48:36 maybe i'll just say the function is frown 21:48:54 convexity: f(p*x+q*y) <= p*f(x)+q*f(y) for p+q=1, p,q >= 0 21:48:57 although you can't really not remember concave, if you draw a cave under the hill 21:49:22 i know 21:49:29 oh 21:49:36 you meant as an answer to whether monotonic 21:49:40 right 21:49:56 mhm 21:50:51 hey 21:50:53 it's the derivative which is monotone 21:51:05 that defines it for arbitrary vector space 21:51:33 from ... to reals 21:52:20 you could also define it as the set {(x,y) | y >= f(x)} being a convex set, i think 21:52:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover__ has joined. 21:52:40 erm 21:52:46 oh 21:52:58 yes i believe that's true 21:52:59 to connect those two meanings of "convex" 21:53:12 yeah but that doesn't help at all with concave vs convex 21:53:36 which is the problem; although again i guess i did ask if you require monotonicity... 21:53:54 no but that's just switching <= and >= in the first definition 21:54:17 or switching in the second but then it's still a _convex_ set 21:54:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 21:54:23 yes, and that's why you don't remember it, it's the classic problem of memorizing a dual concept 21:54:39 erm hrm 21:54:50 right, so hmm 21:55:19 well i guess a set is concave if it's complement is convex 21:55:36 *its 21:55:44 so they aren't completely dual because concavity is not really "the same thing" when talking about sets instead of functions 21:56:13 yeah but that isn't really the isomorphism kind of duality 21:56:57 can you do some transformation on a vector space to make concaves convex and vice versa 21:57:06 like take a point 21:57:11 err 21:57:14 yeah i don't think you can 21:57:28 the thing is i don't recall actually using the word "concave" much at all, at least for sets 21:57:46 yes, " so they aren't completely dual becau..." was my realizing that 21:58:06 and saying something different, possibly 21:58:13 it's convex which is the important concept in functional analysis 21:58:48 but it'd seem like concave functions are the more natural thing, to me 21:59:24 because you can have a nonnegative-codomained concave function that has finite measure support, mainly 21:59:42 wait 21:59:45 yes 21:59:47 but 22:00:16 hm 22:00:30 then again i don't know much about this stuff, as you might be able to deduce 22:00:51 i've had a bit of functional analysis but i'm dense like that 22:00:58 my memory is not immensely clear itself 22:01:29 ONE DAY SCIENTISTS FROZE EVERYTHING 22:03:44 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 22:20:11 -!- kar8nga has joined. 22:22:37 -!- relet has joined. 22:28:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:33:12 alise, is it now moral to buy Apple products again? 22:33:22 I'm not certain they actually fixed anything. 22:33:27 The comments are uncertain, or at least were. 22:33:41 Anyway, there's always another fuckup around the corner or simply not realised yet. 22:41:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:42:06 Why was it immoral? 22:42:19 Was this story the original inspiration for starting to talk about tractor beams, or is this just an awesome example of synchronicity? /. "Technology: Researchers Create Real Tractor Beams" 22:42:33 No, it was the hattheist. 22:42:39 s/tt/t 22:42:51 s|$|/| 22:43:21 alise: do you know what happened to digg? reddit are gloating about it to an extent that they aren't bothering to explain the context 22:44:08 "The way it works, is by shining a hollow laser beam around some tiny glass particles. The researchers heat the air around the particles, and therefore cause the dark center of the beam to remain cool. The result is that the particles within drift to the hotter rim (into the laser beam itself), the force of the fast-moving particles within the beam will cause the other drifting particles to move back into the middle." -- that's a pretty lame tractor beam. 22:44:31 ais523, it may be just a redesign... 22:44:41 People will complain about any such things. 22:44:44 Phantom_Hoover__: it's allegedly worse than that 22:45:26 I can't find anything worse. 22:45:30 Wait, some downtime. 22:45:51 the implication appears to be a botched migration to new technology, plus new features that are unpopular for some reason 22:45:56 but I don't know the details 22:46:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:48:22 ais523: Just in case you didn't notice: I improved the Befunge C-style constants prog to beat Java by two bytes, thereby proving that Befunge is objectively a ~1.7 % better languahe than Java. 22:48:37 fizzie: yay 22:49:06 Factor was originally implemented in Java 22:49:21 * Phantom_Hoover__ instantly hates Factor 22:49:33 :( 22:49:34 and also beating common lisp, pascal, and C~ 22:49:35 *C# 22:49:42 Scheme? 22:49:43 the issue with java for golfing is the amount of boilerplate 22:49:51 nobody's tried it in scheme 22:50:05 fizzie: what are the dimensions of that program? 23x5? 22:51:21 umm, wait no, must be 37x3 22:51:24 assuming newlines are optimised 22:51:32 Three lines, of lengths 47, 39 and 29. 22:51:43 and I'm wrong again, because ofc the lines don't all have to have the same length 22:51:49 I look forward to seeing it 22:51:52 (With two newlines in-between.) 22:51:57 especially given that you have to do the base-conversions by hand 22:53:06 There's still quite many days, I might get around to tweaking some characters off. (An automatic Befunge layout optimizer would be a nice optimization problem.) 22:54:24 * Phantom_Hoover__ → sleep 22:54:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover__ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:54:43 -!- relet has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:55:08 Looked at some old Java prog's post-mortem, it was written something like "enum B{B;{ /* code here */ }} because that way you don't need a method, just a initializer code block that's ran when the B.B instance is constructed. 22:56:46 I'd guess it runs that, then complains about missing main, but maybe the golf place ignores stderr? 23:01:08 Twas this one: http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?base+convert/hallvabo_1282897073&java 23:04:21 And "run first, then complain" is exactly what it does: http://p.zem.fi/xxx7 23:05:27 fizzie: it displays stderr, but ignores it 23:06:30 can you do I/O in an enum initialiser? 23:06:39 Yes, apparently. 23:06:45 the fact that's even possible makes the part of me that's aware of Haskell explode 23:06:47 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 23:07:50 I'm not sure if the spec exactly guarantees that System.in/System.out would be sane in a static member initializer, but it does seem to work. 23:13:16 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:13:18 It also has an "interesting" termination condition in the IO loop: "for(Scanner S=...;S==S;) ..." -- I don't quite know why *that* works, it never assigns anything to S and there's no == overloading... 23:14:01 Oh, it doesn't "work"; it does die in Scanner.nextInt. 23:14:39 But it doesn't matter since it's done at that point. So I guess it's just a fancier way to write "true". 23:14:52 back 23:15:01 alise: do you know what happened to digg? reddit are gloating about it to an extent that they aren't bothering to explain the context 23:15:14 can't you leave it empty in java? 23:15:20 i guess that's a stupid question 23:15:20 they launched 4.0, which, due to a Retarded Design Error, ended up being an RSS feed of about 3 sites 23:15:24 then 23:15:41 almost the whole front page was filled with /links to reddit submissions' links/ (not the link itself; the link to the reddit submission) 23:15:47 not by accident, by submission 23:15:49 haha 23:15:52 because even Digg users gave up 23:15:58 someone figured out how to game the system, and it was reddit? 23:16:02 ais523: nope 23:16:05 it wasn't even gaming 23:16:07 I guess they're lucky it wasn't /b/ 23:16:09 it was everyone having jumped ship 23:16:15 and only coming back to laugh at it 23:16:17 ah, ok 23:16:34 ais523: interestingly, reddit's traffic has surpassed digg even slightly before that, iirc 23:16:47 well, that's arguably still gaming the system, just a very easy gaming of the system 23:16:47 so it's the underdog no longer :) 23:16:58 akin to winning a nomic via persuading people to vote for your win 23:17:16 but yeah, the digg frontpage is basically worthless now 23:17:37 oklofok: Oh! You can, but then it refuses to compile because "initializer must be able to complete normally", and it realizes for empty (or for constant "true") that it would never halt except when an exception occurs. 23:17:57 ais523: of course, with reddit's steady decline in quality, Slashdot is probably the best option at this point 23:18:19 I generally only read the comments, on both reddit and Slashdot 23:18:39 So the loop actually needs a real conditional, something that "looks like" it could be false too. 23:20:03 you're right, unreachable code is a fatal compile error in Java 23:20:08 which is a bit weird 23:21:06 -!- cpressey has quit (*.net *.split). 23:21:29 -!- cpressey has joined. 23:21:47 I've sometimes wanted to add an early "return" for quick-and-dirt debugging, and then it refused to compile until I made it something silly, like a if (1==1) return. 23:22:15 Dirt debugging; for us earthy fellows. 23:22:16 ais523: only reading the comments is quite a common sign of addiction :) 23:22:31 I love printf debugging. 23:22:31 <3 23:22:33 it is my favourite 23:22:41 presumably it's because the sort of people who are meant to program Java are the sort of people who would ignore an unreachable code warning 23:23:04 alise: heh; I mostly do it when I need to waste time for some reason or another (often just to calm down after something's upset me) 23:23:06 This is Java, it's System.out.println debugging. 23:24:23 night 23:24:56 Did I ever tell you about the "MiniJava" language that our compiler course used? It had a separate statement with the syntax "System.out.println" "(" expr ")". To be "Java-compatible", you see. 23:25:19 hahaha 23:25:30 (especially as it's missing the semicolon) 23:25:50 Did I ever tell you about the "MiniJava" language that our compiler course used? It had a separate statement with the syntax "System.out.println" "(" expr ")". To be "Java-compatible", you see. 23:25:55 Oh, that"s probably just my fault. But still. 23:26:04 ais523: I load reddit every time I get into an idle loop. 23:26:08 (I keep hitting up-arrow insteas of .) 23:26:11 It is my HLT instruction. 23:26:17 you're right, unreachable code is a fatal compile error in Java <--- whaaaat? 23:26:21 ais523, seriously? 23:26:26 who was it here who said they started browsing Slashdot because they were bored of Slashdot 23:26:28 Vorpal: seriously 23:26:31 ais523: coppro 23:26:32 iirc 23:26:34 (not /always/, ofc, because of the halting problem) 23:26:39 (but when it can detect it) 23:27:05 ais523, so if they improved the detection algorithm it would possibly break old code? 23:27:16 It doesn't try especially hard to detect it, though. (E.g. constant propagation is not done.) 23:27:16 yes, actually 23:27:21 although arguably the old code was broken anyway 23:27:28 well yes but still 23:27:36 warning yes... but fatal error? wtf 23:27:56 It might even be that they've explicitly spec'd the things that it is allowed to be able to detect. 23:28:03 hah 23:28:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:28:16 fizzie: that wouldn't actually surprise me 23:29:15 {normal} println = 'System.out.println'; 23:29:15 {normal} write = 'System.out.write'; 23:29:15 {normal} read = 'System.in.read'; 23:29:24 Oh, it had three tokens like that. 23:29:30 *Uuuuugh*. 23:29:50 The whole thing with "random slowdowns" on my phone was apparently because Palm stuck an overzealous logging daemon on there. 23:29:52 | {print} println lparen expression rparen semi 23:29:52 {-> New statement.print(println, expression.expression)} 23:30:11 And then production rules like that for statement. 23:30:31 pikhq, suggestion: log that logging is slow ;) 23:31:08 All so that there can be debugging info available. 23:32:16 night 23:34:57 "Every Java compiler must carry out the conservative flow analysis specified here to make sure all statements are reachable. -- The analysis takes into account the structure of statements. Except for the special treatment of while, do, and for statements whose condition expression has the constant value true, the values of expressions are not taken into account in the flow analysis." 23:35:33 IOW, they have indeed specified what does compile-error unreachable mean. 23:36:05 so while(false) {x;} is allowed because the x is reachable because the false is not a constant true? 23:36:16 um, replace the x there with something that parses 23:37:31 "The people behind VLC, quite probably the most useful media player available right now." 23:37:33 erm 23:37:34 "The people behind VLC, quite probably the most useful media player available right now," 23:37:36 "x;" is usually a valid statement in the braces-languages, I think ... java would probably bark at an expression-statement that doesn't have side effects though 23:37:40 --> "I have never heard of mplayer." 23:38:00 olsner_: yep, you need parens or an = for a side-effect 23:38:12 ais523: No, that's another special case they didn't mention in the summary paragraph. 23:38:16 * alise grumbles 23:38:22 alise: the people on #tasvideos encode with some really weird settings, etc 23:38:34 ais523: "The contained statement is reachable iff the while statement is reachable and the condition expression is not a constant expression whose value is false." 23:38:36 they say that VLC is the best at getting the videos right, even though it crashes a lot 23:38:38 ais523: x.264 guys, I'll bet? 23:38:54 *x264 23:39:14 alise: well, when I try to play back their .avi encodings of a 30Hz game, the video plays back double speed, and the sound at the correct speed 23:39:18 which obviously makes them rather out-of-synch 23:39:33 ais523: .avi? 23:39:40 they should be ashamed of theirselves :) 23:39:44 .avi is a container 23:39:51 you can put all sorts of interesting things inside it 23:40:01 .mp4 and .mkv are more common as containers, though 23:41:29 yes, but nobody who tweaks settings like a freak would be caught dead using something as horrible-to-use as .avi 23:41:35 especially as it's quite limited, although I forget how 23:41:46 the tweakers almost always use .mkv in my experience 23:41:51 even when storing H.264 23:41:56 although some Blu-Ray rips are .mp4 23:42:39 tasvideos aren't tweaking for crazy performance or anything like that, though 23:42:47 mostly they're just trying to get the things to work and be a reasonable size 23:42:55 ais523: But due to another special case, "if (false) { x(); }" is in fact legal, as is "if (true) x(); else y();" -- the spec admits the handling is not consistent with other control structures, but is done like that to "allow the if statement to be used conveniently for "conditional compilation" purposes". 23:42:58 eugh, RIFF stores the length of the file in the file (as if the file size wasn't obvious from the, you know, actual size of the file), and stores it as a 32-bit integer 23:43:01 Such pragmatists. 23:43:06 great future-proofing there 23:43:16 avi is perhaps the worst container. 23:43:23 olsner_: tasvideos actually hit that limit 23:43:33 pikhq: XML would be worse, I think 23:43:40 which is pretty impressive 23:44:04 alise: BTW, to be fair to VLC, it *is* probably the most useful GUI media player out there. 23:44:25 pikhq: gmplayer? :P 23:44:27 Notable features include: supporting nearly everything (like mplayer) and not sucking (like mplayer). 23:44:28 But yeah. 23:44:38 ais523: a /speed run/ hit a /time limit/ on a /video format/? 23:44:41 what kind of game is that?! 23:44:46 Gmplayer sucked last time I tried it. 23:44:52 alise: Size limit, not time limit. 23:44:55 a very long one, probably; or possibly one that compresses really badly 23:45:00 pikhq: ah 23:45:00 yeah, iirc gmplayer sucks pretty badly 23:45:09 is gmplayer == the mplayer gui? 23:45:10 most video formats are really bad at encoding game videos 23:45:15 or == gnome-mplayer? 23:45:27 I found it worse than the command-line user interface at least 23:45:31 gmplayer is the mplayer GUI, which uses GTK. 23:50:35 * alise opens The Largest tar.bz2 23:51:23 30 April 2010: Announcement coming soon. Check back here on 15 May 2010! 23:53:26 lol 23:53:40 really, I don't know what to make of that 23:54:17 now the entire contest is obfuscated! 23:57:49 So, progress on HackFactor? 23:57:59 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 23:58:07 `factor "Hello world" print 23:58:15 No output. 23:58:30 `factor "No output." print 23:58:31 No output. 23:58:49 It works half the time!