←2010-09-17 2010-09-18 2010-09-19→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:04 <quintopia> well, i know no haskell or erlang. but i was just lumping them together to be silly anyway ;_)
00:00:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about a top-speaker-per-month-list?
00:00:25 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Well, Erlang and Prolog are kind of, sort of related
00:00:29 <Vorpal> fizzie, with nick aggregation of course
00:00:34 <zzo38> There is another, what about TeX syntax? And then, there are also many others
00:00:40 <zzo38> Such as XML
00:00:41 <alise> what kind of smiley is ;_)
00:00:49 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli hits zzo38 with a backslash
00:00:50 <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, only in appearance, not in behaviour.
00:00:57 <quintopia> IN ANY CASE, my list was not meant to be all-inclusive, just a few ideas to start you thinking
00:00:58 <Vorpal> alise, one with a 90° rotation in the middle
00:01:04 <quintopia> i'm serious though. i'll look at haskell
00:01:21 <alise> quintopia: think of how you want to write some code
00:01:23 <alise> make it work
00:01:27 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Haskell is a language that everyone should learn. FOr some weird reason, I really, really want to just TEACH it to someone
00:01:29 <alise> don't look at other people's shit :P
00:01:30 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Anyone
00:01:39 <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: i very much doubt you'd be a good teacher
00:01:43 <quintopia> i've already done that alise. and i hit some writer's block. hence, asking for ideas.
00:01:48 <alise> i also doubt you know haskell enough to anyway :P
00:01:58 <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli<CTCP>ACTION OUCH<CTCP>
00:02:00 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, the basics?
00:02:02 <alise> quintopia: implement it, write stuff that would use it, do whatever comes first to mind
00:02:05 <alise> zzo38: what.
00:02:11 <quintopia> alise: sounds lame
00:02:13 <alise> zzo38: did you really just use CTCP in the middle of a message and expect it to work
00:02:14 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> zzo38 typoed his /me
00:02:18 <alise> quintopia: yeah writing a language you like how weird
00:02:21 <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: he doesn't have a /me
00:02:24 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Exactly
00:02:25 <alise> it's technically valid what he did
00:02:29 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> He typoed manually doing a /me
00:02:30 <alise> it's just that...
00:02:32 <quintopia> alise: that's the kind of attitude that resulted in Perl
00:02:33 <alise> nothing supports that.
00:02:36 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> oh
00:02:36 <alise> quintopia: lol
00:02:40 <alise> quintopia: i never said make something inconsistent
00:02:44 <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: No, I meant to type it that way
00:02:46 <alise> i just said write it how seems to be nicest when you run into it
00:02:48 <alise> then implement that
00:02:52 <alise> zzo38: no client supports that properly.
00:03:11 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I can vouch for this client not supporting it
00:03:16 <quintopia> well, i know what would BE nicest to me in an abstract sense, just not what specifics match my abstract feelings.
00:03:27 <zzo38> OK. I just wanted to see what happened to other people when I did do like that, regardless of what client support it. I know I think it is not a proper command
00:04:23 <alise> quintopia: try meditating
00:04:30 <alise> zzo38: it's valid by the ctcp spec
00:04:33 <alise> but nothing implements it
00:04:55 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli should make the Factor library support ut
00:04:56 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> *it
00:05:05 <quintopia> alise: i can't walk the line between meditation and sleep >.>
00:05:11 <alise> quintopia: ur doin it rong
00:05:19 <quintopia> alise: i know
00:05:21 <alise> (note: i have never meditated)
00:05:22 <quintopia> teach me?
00:05:24 <quintopia> okay then
00:05:27 <zzo38> alise: O, it is valid? Then everyone's client is just broken in that case.
00:05:30 <alise> i meant in the more introspective intellectual sense
00:05:31 <alise> :P
00:05:42 <alise> zzo38: Or just not taking a crappy standard literally.
00:05:46 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I've lied in bed eyes closed dead tired but fully awake
00:05:49 <Vorpal> <zzo38> Sgeo|FsckThatCli[0001]ACTION OUCH[0001] ?
00:05:50 <quintopia> i'm practicing group meditation right now
00:05:53 <Vorpal> zzo38, what was that about
00:05:56 <quintopia> also known as "crowd-sourcing"
00:06:18 <alise> quintopia: not going too well, is it:P
00:06:25 <quintopia> NOT WITH YOU NO
00:06:38 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> You should use PSOX syntax!
00:06:38 <zzo38> quintopia: About nothing
00:06:44 <quintopia> but at the very least i've helped distract people from the logs
00:06:47 <quintopia> that's worth something
00:06:51 <alise> zzo38: *Vorpal:
00:06:54 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> PSOX > *
00:07:00 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> And PSOX2 will be turing-complete
00:07:15 <fizzie> Vorpal: You can do "top speaker per month" pretty easily if you want everyone on the list, but "top N per month" is a lot messier, since you can't easily apply a per-month limit expression. (Nick aggregation is just a matter of terribly ugly conditional expression in place of the nick column.)
00:07:20 <quintopia> turing-completeness is boring
00:07:37 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Not when it makes HQ9+ +PSOX2 be turing-complete
00:07:47 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> (Note: This was a real idea. It's vaguely scrapped)
00:07:47 <Vorpal> fizzie, a sub query for limiting it per month maybe
00:08:05 <quintopia> what i want to see is more languages in the "computes all functions that can be guaranteed at the outset to halt" family
00:08:11 <alise> quintopia: impossible
00:08:15 <Vorpal> fizzie, or maybe not
00:08:15 <alise> mathematically
00:08:23 <quintopia> aiise: wrong
00:08:24 <alise> functions can halt but have no proof of halting
00:08:30 <alise> i guess your definition sorta excludes it
00:08:30 <alise> but anyway
00:08:33 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, and the language can't do thsoe
00:08:37 <alise> you're pretty much limited to primitive recursive functions
00:08:40 <alise> + a few extras
00:08:44 <alise> and such languages already exist
00:08:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, something with select distinct perhaps?
00:08:46 <alise> e.g. Coq
00:08:49 <quintopia> yes i know such exist
00:08:52 <quintopia> datalog is one
00:08:59 <quintopia> but i don't think there are enough
00:09:03 <alise> Coq is more powerful by far, I think.
00:09:31 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli pokes alise with one of Factor's predicate classes
00:09:47 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Although any similarity with dependent types is superficial
00:10:10 <quintopia> coq doesn't seem to be for application purposes...if you're talking about this automated prover thing
00:10:14 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death).
00:10:15 <fizzie> Vorpal: I tried to write something like that; it's... well, non-trivial. When you apply a subquery per each row, you can only return one value; and if you're joining subqueries, you don't get a listing of months. You can do it either by unioning manually N queries for N months, or possibly N "select Nth person" queries.
00:10:16 <alise> quintopia: it is
00:10:36 <alise> quintopia: a common method of using it is "write Coq code to implement some data structure, algorithm, etc.; prove it correct; extract the code (Coq can do this) to Haskell/O'Caml"
00:10:40 <alise> tada, formally-verified library
00:10:55 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Well, that's interesting
00:11:01 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Maybe I should learn about Coq
00:11:03 <alise> but there are many proof-only developments in it, yes, like Goedel's first incompleteness theorem and the four-colour theorem
00:11:18 <fizzie> An aggregate function that would concatenate all returned rows into one string would work, but doesn't (at least standardly) exist.
00:11:24 <quintopia> ouc
00:11:25 <quintopia> oic
00:11:27 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I vaguely feel like I'm switching my love back to Haskell
00:12:04 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> The thing that drove me away from Haskell last time was things like zippers. It should not be a headache to implement things that are easy imperitively
00:12:22 <fizzie> PL/SQL and its ilk (PL/pgSQL) can of course do it easily, but that's no longer SQL.
00:12:46 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> What's the equiv for SQLite?
00:13:05 -!- augur has joined.
00:13:24 <alise> none
00:13:29 <fizzie> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: "Do it in the client app" is, I think, pretty much it.
00:13:37 <alise> fizzie: pah it's easy with LISPABASE
00:13:59 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I think SQLite has triggers though>?
00:14:14 <fizzie> alise: In LISPABASE everthing's sunshine and rainbows and unicorns, right.
00:14:55 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Someone should work out if it's TC
00:16:03 <fizzie> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: It has a bit nonstandard implementation of triggers; you could get top-N-per-month with those, assuming the triggers are allowed to write to other tables. It still won't be a single query, though.
00:16:21 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Can triggers trigger triggers?
00:16:27 <quintopia> of course!
00:16:29 <zzo38> I think it can be possible to use TeX to make music synthesis, and then you have a program that reads the DVI file to play the music
00:16:41 <quintopia> as long as those triggers don't retrigger the original triggers!
00:16:45 <alise> fizzie: LISPABASE: the conventionalness of Prolog combined with the easy-understandibility of Lisp code!
00:16:58 <fizzie> Chrono Triggersl
00:17:04 <alise> Triggersl
00:17:04 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia, are you guessing?
00:17:36 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I don't get it. is alise suggesting that Lisp isn't easy to understand?
00:17:53 <alise> Well, not for most people.
00:17:53 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I think I can read Lisp better than Factor
00:18:15 <fizzie> Triggers only run on modifications, too; a "more pure" solution would be completely read-only w.r.t the db.
00:18:33 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I'm not thinking about solutions to the problem
00:18:47 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I'm wondering if programming in SQLite/Triggers would be interesting
00:21:14 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> .
00:22:11 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Vorpal: I tried to write something like that; it's... well, non-trivial. When you apply a subquery per each row, you can only return one value; and if you're joining subqueries, you don't get a listing of months. You can do it either by unioning manually N queries for N months, or possibly N "select Nth person" queries. <-- hm.. or move the picking of top N names to an application program
00:22:16 <Vorpal> or procedural SQL
00:22:54 <fizzie> Yes, that's the usual cop-out.
00:24:01 <quintopia> i has been pinged!
00:24:34 <Vorpal> <fizzie> alise: In LISPABASE everthing's sunshine and rainbows and unicorns, right. <-- but unicorns are vicious bastards!
00:24:47 <Vorpal> look at the classical unicorn
00:24:55 <alise> i love how easy it is to segfault gprolog
00:25:03 <alise> | ?- append(X,Y,[X,Y]).
00:25:03 <alise> Segmentation fault
00:25:34 <Vorpal> ^style ct
00:25:34 <fungot> Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script)
00:25:42 <Vorpal> fungot, chrono triggers
00:25:42 <fungot> Vorpal: i must ponder this turn of events, it can have a powerful effect on time. ask the one to bring back lost loved ones... it's what that guy in medina, a village near the mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
00:25:51 <Vorpal> fungot, and what about the sword
00:25:52 <fungot> Vorpal: there! there it is! but by the time we're through with you, you'll be in danger. open hatch.
00:25:53 <zzo38> Yesterday, I win!
00:26:01 <Vorpal> fungot, no... the sword I said
00:26:02 <alise> ./09.01.19:10:15:40 <KajirBot> fungot, will I marry me?
00:26:02 <fungot> Vorpal: the masamune! ride again!
00:26:02 <alise> ./09.01.19:10:15:41 <fungot> KajirBot: unfortunately i guess you would have a lot to do with
00:26:02 <fungot> alise: but, we are far outnumbered! dalton! leave her alone!
00:26:02 <fungot> alise: these unique items make us invincible! could the heavens. burrowing deep into the the world's life energy! it's shut tight... great weather. groovin' on life... hey! did you people just come out of the closet? get out?! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house.
00:26:29 <Vorpal> fungot, the sword what can't it stop alone?
00:26:29 <fungot> alise: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! i'll be right there!
00:26:39 <Vorpal> what
00:26:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, bug in fungot
00:26:44 <fungot> Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible! after them!
00:26:49 <alise> that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop! that sword alone can't stop!
00:26:53 <fizzie> Vorpal: Not a new bug.
00:26:53 <Vorpal> <Vorpal> fungot, the sword what can't it stop alone?
00:26:53 <Vorpal> <fungot> alise: i'd like to see that mystical sword for myself! geez! i'll be right there
00:26:53 <fungot> Vorpal: yes, it's been awhile prometheus! go!! this is for you guys are a lot! the hero has made the epoch, your wings! now this is a treasure there... found the treasure!! probably filled with mystical forest powers. we are immortal! we shall hold this position to the last man! big fire where lavos fall from sky! we no can call that the chrono trigger. it is r66-y? cool? who knows what would become of my mystics? i must win!
00:26:53 <fungot> Vorpal: these unique items make us invincible! how can i do for you? thanks! it's about the missing queen. she still looks so much like leene, that they will take you to your place of execution?! strange, but!?
00:26:58 <Vorpal> that is completely wrong
00:27:15 <oerjan> fizzie: did you make the bug fix for fungot's pseudorandom selections permanent?
00:27:15 <fungot> oerjan: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10. all functions are down... got the terra arm and the crisis arm! found a dreamstone! i'd forgotten how beautiful they are the evildoers? magus's lair! you brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
00:27:21 <alise> Vorpal: no, i pinged fungot
00:27:21 <fungot> alise: you, with you standing around! the trial! what has gotten away with this! a top secret document has been left behind the floor to fight the mother brain, yet!
00:27:23 <alise> before you
00:27:27 <alise> or?
00:27:29 <fizzie> oerjan: I believe I did.
00:27:34 <Vorpal> alise, yes you did but count the number of times
00:27:47 <Vorpal> alise, it replied one more than the number of times you pinged it
00:27:52 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> .
00:27:54 <fizzie> Anyway, the "answers to the wrong person" is a known thing.
00:27:58 <Vorpal> and directly after I highlighted it
00:28:09 <Vorpal> fungot, tell me about the damn sword now
00:28:09 <fungot> Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! i owe you one! you saved the day of lavos"... go to " mystic mountain" 65,000,000 b. c.? yes, i'd have done something very brave! he's probably up north, to guardia!!! let's toast our land! now we'll have some peace! magus is a tad on the spooky side. our only hope.
00:28:12 <Vorpal> fungot, sigh
00:28:12 <fungot> Vorpal: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! they're escaping! 1b is escaping! so! that cathedral to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh?
00:28:19 <Vorpal> fungot, ...
00:28:19 <fungot> Vorpal: frog will do. well, i better! whoosh! i wonder how everyone! humans! they're my friends! you'll see, you'll be in danger. open hatch.
00:28:24 <alise> Vorpal: stop
00:28:24 <alise> the
00:28:25 <alise> spamming
00:28:26 <alise> of
00:28:26 <alise> fungot
00:28:26 <fungot> alise: that no one was allowed to use the crane, enter any two of these letters, a b y.
00:28:27 <Vorpal> fungot, fine, suit yourself :P
00:28:27 <alise> now
00:28:27 <fungot> Vorpal: you! take! we find!
00:28:28 <alise> it
00:28:29 <alise> is
00:28:30 <alise> even
00:28:31 <Vorpal> alise, indeed
00:28:32 <alise> more
00:28:34 <alise> than
00:28:36 <alise> my
00:28:38 <alise> HackEgo
00:28:40 <alise> spamming
00:28:43 <alise> i'd say hypocrite but that's wearing kinda thin today!
00:28:45 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> alise, stop the reciting of the Befunge-98 spec
00:28:56 <Vorpal> alise, indeed it is
00:29:02 <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: Vorpal did that word-per-line thing earlier today.
00:29:09 <alise> also, stop freaking out about that
00:29:33 <fizzie> I also take offense on "completely wrong"; it generated the text just fine, it just directed to the wrong person. That happens to the best of us! (Like cpressey; not that I'm implying anything about relative goodness levels here.)
00:29:34 <Vorpal> <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: Vorpal did that word-per-line thing earlier today. <-- hm, which one. or did you mean fizzie that did the graphs for that
00:29:42 <alise> Vorpal: i mean you talked
00:29:43 <alise> like
00:29:43 <alise> this
00:29:44 <alise> to
00:29:44 <alise> stop
00:29:44 <alise> me
00:29:45 <alise> using
00:29:46 <alise> a
00:29:48 <alise> bot
00:29:49 <Vorpal> alise, ah
00:29:54 <Vorpal> not graphs of words per line
00:29:57 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> W
00:29:58 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> e
00:29:59 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> l
00:30:00 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> l
00:30:00 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli>
00:30:02 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I
00:30:03 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli>
00:30:04 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> c
00:30:05 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> a
00:30:06 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> n
00:30:08 <Vorpal> no, that is worse
00:30:13 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli stops
00:30:36 <quintopia> Oh
00:30:37 <quintopia> man
00:30:42 <Vorpal> char per line is only okay if
00:30:42 <Vorpal> d
00:30:42 <Vorpal> i
00:30:42 <Vorpal> a
00:30:42 <Vorpal> g
00:30:43 <Vorpal> o
00:30:45 <Vorpal> n
00:30:47 <Vorpal> a
00:30:47 <fizzie> That's going to hurt your line-length distributions, you know. :p "Won't anyone think of the line-length distributions!"
00:30:47 <quintopia> i thought this channel was getting easy to read for a moment
00:30:49 <Vorpal> l
00:30:51 <Vorpal> (sorry for that one, couldn't resist)
00:31:08 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli wonders how long Befunge-98 would be 1 char/line
00:31:17 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> I mean, timewise
00:31:19 <Vorpal> Sgeo|FsckThatCli, run wc -c on it
00:31:21 <Vorpal> oh
00:31:22 <Vorpal> well
00:31:24 <Vorpal> calc it
00:31:28 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> wc -c * what?
00:31:32 <alise> what about convert the ascii to binary
00:31:34 <alise> then one bit per line
00:31:47 <quintopia> what about unary?
00:31:53 <oerjan> Vorpal: people here have _low_ self-discipline
00:31:53 <quintopia> (yes, had to go there)
00:32:02 <Vorpal> oerjan, err yes, what about it
00:32:22 <oerjan> Vorpal: regarding your resist
00:32:30 <quintopia> vorpal: as a result, the chan moves faster
00:32:31 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Might the unary be longer than what the universe can store?
00:32:33 <Vorpal> oerjan, ah
00:32:37 <alise> quintopia: well "hi!" would be 6,842,657 lines long.
00:32:54 <oerjan> !haskell do [1..20]; "Haskell! "
00:32:55 <Vorpal> alise, how did you arrive at that number
00:33:02 <alise> Vorpal: manually
00:33:04 <EgoBot> "Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! Haskell! "
00:33:07 <quintopia> if everyone had high self-discipline, they'd be doing something productive rather than calculating what 24 bits is in unary digits
00:33:13 <Vorpal> alise, I mean, what is the formula for calculating it
00:33:14 <quintopia> and thus the channel would be slow
00:33:24 <alise> Vorpal: look at the ascii in binary
00:33:27 <alise> interpret that number as unary
00:33:27 <alise> done
00:33:39 <Vorpal> alise, I'm trying to remember what the unary encoding is
00:33:44 <alise> Umm
00:33:48 <alise> just 1 repeated N times
00:33:50 <alise> and now
00:33:50 <alise> prepare
00:33:53 <alise> for my work of art
00:33:54 <alise> which I title
00:33:55 <zzo38> My idea is to add PicoC into Enhanced CWEB
00:33:57 <alise> "Unary '.'"
00:33:59 <alise> 1
00:33:59 <alise> 1
00:33:59 <alise> 1
00:33:59 <alise> 1
00:34:01 <alise> 1
00:34:02 <quintopia> macrobreak
00:34:03 <alise> 1
00:34:03 <Vorpal> oh no
00:34:05 <alise> 1
00:34:07 <alise> 1
00:34:08 <Vorpal> ....
00:34:09 <alise> 1
00:34:11 <alise> 1
00:34:11 <Vorpal> good we abort it
00:34:13 <alise> 1
00:34:14 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
00:34:15 <alise> 1
00:34:17 <alise> 1
00:34:19 <alise> 1
00:34:19 <Vorpal> go oerjan!
00:34:19 <quintopia> yes
00:34:21 <quintopia> kick time
00:34:21 <alise> 1
00:34:21 <quintopia> !
00:34:23 <alise> 1
00:34:31 -!- alise has joined.
00:34:33 <alise> 1
00:34:34 <Vorpal> oerjan, strange kick reason
00:34:35 <alise> 1
00:34:35 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Ok, so: What did alise actually print?
00:34:37 <alise> 1
00:34:37 <Vorpal> and kickban him
00:34:39 <alise> 1
00:34:41 <alise> 1
00:34:42 <Vorpal> for now
00:34:43 <alise> 1
00:34:44 <zzo38> 2
00:34:45 <alise> 1
00:34:47 <alise> 1
00:34:49 <alise> 1
00:34:51 <alise> 1
00:34:52 <Vorpal> oerjan, !!!!
00:34:53 <alise> 1
00:34:54 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*alise@91.104.246.*.
00:35:02 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> Aww, don't worry, Bender. There's no such thing as 2
00:35:03 <Vorpal> oerjan++
00:35:04 <quintopia> it was going to be '.' obviously
00:35:18 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> quintopia: but at the point he was kicked, what's the result
00:35:39 <quintopia> something unprintable
00:35:47 <quintopia> what's ascii 27?
00:35:55 <Vorpal> space is 32
00:35:55 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -bc *!*alise@91.104.246.*.
00:35:55 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +c.
00:36:02 <Vorpal> oerjan, why -c
00:36:19 <oerjan> er i have no idea why that -c happened
00:36:26 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> because
00:36:28 <oerjan> i just did /mode -b *!*alise@91.104.246.* #esoteric
00:36:42 <quintopia> what is c anyway
00:36:46 -!- alise has joined.
00:36:50 <alise> that was my client
00:36:53 <alise> i said nothing after the first kick
00:36:54 <Vorpal> oerjan, #esoteric first ?
00:36:54 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> color stripping, I think
00:37:08 <Vorpal> alise, maybe, use /flushq in xchat
00:37:11 <quintopia> alise: you said it all before. you pasted it all at once right?
00:37:12 <alise> i did, tyvm.
00:37:14 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli wants to watch stripping in color >.>
00:37:14 <alise> i didn't realise
00:37:37 <oerjan> Vorpal: maybe, i couldn't remember the order but thought it would just give an error if it was wrong
00:37:38 <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: is there anything you can't turn into an inane sexual reference?
00:37:44 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
00:38:13 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> It's weird, there was a time that I'd never make a sexual reference
00:38:15 <Vorpal> oerjan, unlikely. That would be far too easy to use
00:38:20 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:38:23 <oerjan> Vorpal: :D
00:38:50 -!- augur has joined.
00:38:58 <quintopia> when i do sexual references, i like to use surgical redaction.
00:39:04 <Vorpal> <alise> Sgeo|FsckThatCli: is there anything you can't turn into an inane sexual reference? <-- no, but I invoke rule 34 on inane sexual references
00:39:42 <alise> Vorpal: Once upon a time, "Your mom said that in bed last night" and "That's what SHE said!" did it.
00:39:43 <alise> The end.
00:39:50 <Sgeo|FsckThatCli> A naked superintelligent shade of the color blue?
00:39:52 <Vorpal> alise, hah
00:40:37 <oerjan> <Vorpal> oerjan, strange kick reason <-- i didn't provide any
00:40:42 <Vorpal> oerjan, ah
00:40:44 <quintopia> i was talking to a friend about netbooks, and the following innocuous line emerged:
00:40:47 <quintopia> 12. "ah well, yes, if you insist on 10 inches and lots of hard di[redacted]k, it will be $300, but that's only a hundred dollars more!" - quintopia
00:40:55 <alise> xD
00:40:57 <quintopia> that's surgical redaction in action
00:41:37 <Vorpal> haha
00:41:48 <Vorpal> night →
00:41:56 <quintopia> baibai
00:41:58 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli watches Vorpal run into the userlist
00:42:22 <pikhq> Vorpal: hàihài.
00:42:31 <alise> jejejejejejeje
00:42:52 <alise> True fact.
00:43:21 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli feeds alise a cursed fortune cookie
00:43:26 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:43:59 <quintopia> hey, since i'm still new and all, can i get some brief bios maybe? some introduction type thingies?
00:44:14 <alise> 2010-09-17 21:30:52 (95.5 KB/s) - `logs.db' saved [248597504/248597504]
00:44:16 <alise> so happy i could query for a duck
00:44:34 <alise> quintopia: i can give you two bios for the price of one!
00:44:41 <quintopia> SWEET
00:44:43 <quintopia> what's the price of one?
00:44:46 <alise> but Vorpal's would basically be offensive, so
00:44:49 <alise> quintopia: nothing at all!
00:44:57 <quintopia> well, just tell me who you are then
00:45:23 <alise> hi, i'm 15 and despite the nick -- which originated as a joke and ... stuck -- i'm male. until recently i was in a mental institution
00:45:30 <alise> I guess that isn't the greatest bio ever.
00:45:48 <quintopia> also you're american, as you have previously indicated
00:45:51 <quintopia> that's really enoguh
00:45:51 <alise> err
00:45:52 <alise> wat
00:45:56 <alise> i'm british
00:45:58 <oerjan> Vorpal: oh from various messages in my windows it appears that irssi interpreted /mode -b *!*alise@91.104.246.* #esoteric as first an unban, and then _all_ of #esoteric as a list of flags
00:46:06 <quintopia> oh nvm then
00:46:15 <oerjan> oh right he left
00:46:19 <alise> ooh i remember when otpbot ran rule 110 in the topic
00:46:22 <alise> thems were fun times
00:46:29 * Sgeo|FsckThatCli plays flash Portal
00:46:34 <oerjan> *modes
00:46:52 <quintopia> i never did finish playing through that
00:47:13 <quintopia> got to the place where it was like WTF HOW IS IT EVEN POSSIBLE TO MOVE THROUGH THIS LEVEL and gave up
00:47:27 <quintopia> actually, i never finished playing through the main manufactoria levels either :/
00:47:50 <oerjan> <- 40 male norway
00:47:55 <coppro> the one where you have to shoot yourself over the glass?
00:48:06 <coppro> otpbot = wrlang?
00:48:14 <quintopia> oerjan: ethnicity?
00:48:23 <coppro> *erlang
00:48:43 <quintopia> coppro: no the one with like a bajillion rooms all with sliding doors that are seemingly only openable from the inside...level 45 or something like that
00:48:56 <alise> hey oerjan turned 40
00:48:59 <alise> HAPPY OLD OERJAN
00:49:14 <quintopia> oerjan: what do you do?
00:49:15 <alise> quintopia: oh yeah and i've been here since 2007/2008.
00:49:23 <coppro> oh
00:49:26 <alise> thus completing the worst bio in history
00:50:05 * oerjan always _thought_ norwegian was an ethnicity
00:50:34 <coppro> scandinavian?
00:51:37 <quintopia> oerjan: well, i hear there are Lapps in there too, rarely
00:51:40 <alise> oerjan #esoterics for a living
00:51:52 <alise> if you ever get bored, try and understand one of his papers
00:52:00 <alise> you'll instantly feel a strong urge to do something else
00:52:02 <quintopia> ohho, an academic
00:52:11 <quintopia> sounds hawt
00:52:15 <alise> xD
00:52:23 <alise> we're all academic, it's just that most of us are too crazy to get published!
00:54:44 <quintopia> yes but he's 40. it takes some...uh...stamina to be an academic that long
00:55:03 <oerjan> if there are lapps among my ancestors they're probably quite a bit back
00:56:04 <alise> i'm not sure he academises any more.
00:56:16 <alise> he's also not talking about it
00:56:17 <alise> so i won't either
00:56:52 -!- augur has joined.
00:57:53 -!- Sgeo|FsckPuppy has joined.
00:58:06 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Ubuntu can save its stuff to USB too, right?
00:58:22 <quintopia> very much
00:58:36 <alise> Sgeo|FsckPuppy: automatically?
00:58:38 <alise> uhh, i'm not sure.
00:58:39 <quintopia> this shall be the new official comic of #esoteric: http://i.imgur.com/jacoj.jpg
00:58:41 <alise> yes
00:58:42 <alise> yes it can
00:58:43 <alise> i think
00:58:44 <alise> it saves ~
00:58:47 <alise> if you write the USB right
00:58:50 <alise> (using ubuntu's application)
00:59:01 <alise> quintopia: oh come on we never actually program
00:59:08 <alise> even if we do we never have users
00:59:30 <quintopia> with that attitude, of course you have no users!
00:59:45 -!- Sgeo|FsckThatCli has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:59:49 <quintopia> how do you personally define "esoteric programming language"?
01:00:35 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> No good attitude could have gotten PSOX users
01:00:35 <alise> let me guess, you're going to go on about how our research can pave the way for new practical languages of wonderfulness!
01:00:38 <alise> of course it could
01:00:48 <alise> we just don't give a shit about things /that/ boring :)
01:01:16 <oerjan> quintopia: uselessness is _nearly_ part of the definition
01:02:35 <quintopia> okay, just wondering
01:02:48 * quintopia had no intention of going anywhere with that
01:03:16 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Would Freenode complain if my nick was Fuck?
01:03:32 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Sgeo|FuckPuppy Erroneous Nickname
01:03:35 <quintopia> but there are some practical languages that i, for one reason or another, consider esoteric.
01:03:54 -!- quintopia has changed nick to You.
01:03:55 <oerjan> quintopia: i recall BancStar was (at a time anyhow) disqualified from the wiki for actually being seriously intended
01:04:00 -!- You has changed nick to quintopia.
01:04:08 <oerjan> despite being utterly crazy, or so
01:04:19 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> There's someone I know on another IRC network called You
01:04:24 <quintopia> me too
01:04:27 <oerjan> or was that something else
01:04:30 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Foonetic?
01:04:32 <quintopia> i just wanted to see if it were registered here
01:04:39 <quintopia> yeah, foonetic fuck yeah
01:04:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
01:04:56 <quintopia> that's my homebase network dog
01:05:30 -!- augur has joined.
01:07:15 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:08:08 <oerjan> quintopia: hm in fact it's still not on esolang, but wikipedia has it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BANCStar_programming_language
01:09:01 <quintopia> oerjan: i'm very familiar with it. i remember when it was on esolang.
01:09:10 <quintopia> also, i recall a handful of tdwtf articles
01:10:15 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
01:10:20 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
01:12:47 <quintopia> things that suck more than usual: today's xkcd
01:14:47 <alise> Things that suck: xkcd
01:15:30 <quintopia> used to be good once upon a time
01:15:38 <quintopia> but today it has reached a new level of suckitude
01:15:59 <quintopia> before, when it sucked there'd still be a few fanboys that liked it and stuff
01:16:07 <quintopia> today, even the fans agree it sucks
01:16:29 <alise> yeah xkcd used to be wonderful
01:16:38 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I've taken up not having an opinion
01:16:47 <alise> and from comic 400 to 500, it rapidly descended into utter shite
01:16:57 <alise> after showing inklings of imminent collapse beforehand
01:18:44 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> alise, I assume I'll be much happier on Ubuntu
01:18:51 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Is this a safe assumption?
01:19:12 -!- Oranjer has joined.
01:19:13 <alise> Yes.
01:19:16 -!- Oranjer has left (?).
01:19:20 <alise> I told you just to use Ubuntu from the start.
01:19:22 -!- EOF has joined.
01:19:23 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Even as a temporary OS
01:19:29 <alise> It should be fine from a USB stick.
01:19:30 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> alise, I still haven't tried Knoppix
01:19:33 <EOF> yay
01:19:34 <alise> Don't.
01:19:35 <alise> It's crap.
01:19:41 <EOF> knoppix is :/
01:19:47 <alise> Sgeo|FsckPuppy: I'd burn an Ubuntu CD, then use that CD's USB creator.
01:19:52 <alise> This lets you set it to preserve ~ on shutdown.
01:19:54 <EOF> no
01:20:00 <alise> Who is EOF?
01:20:09 <pikhq> ^D
01:20:11 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Burning a CD is a bit of a tricky proposition right now
01:20:12 <EOF> he is a more experienced linux user
01:20:30 * EOF > u
01:20:42 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Anything I can do from Parted Magic or Puppy Linux?
01:20:52 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Or, well, I guess I can save the .iso to USB
01:20:54 <EOF> zomg
01:21:00 <EOF> fail
01:21:07 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> ?
01:21:10 <EOF> are you on windows?
01:21:27 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Right now, I'm on Puppy Linux
01:21:39 <EOF> usb?
01:21:47 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Managed to burn Parted Magic from my ancient computer that I'd rather leave off
01:21:55 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Burned Puppy Linux from Parted Magic
01:21:58 -!- augur has joined.
01:22:12 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Screwed up a few disks trying to get the saving to DVD right, eventually gave up
01:22:35 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Now I might have a USB drive available soon, so
01:22:39 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> That might help save my sanity
01:22:46 <EOF> you need to burn the image to the disk, don't just copy the file
01:22:59 <EOF> can you open up a terminal?
01:23:00 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I _know_ that
01:23:14 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> But when downloading the thing, I need a place to put it
01:23:20 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Ramdisk probably won't cut it
01:23:27 <EOF> put it somewhere on your hard drive
01:23:38 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I have no hard drive in this computer
01:23:44 <EOF> /.
01:23:50 <EOF> uhm
01:24:16 <EOF> so, you are running for a usb or a cd?
01:24:22 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> CD right now
01:24:32 <EOF> do you have a flash drive?
01:24:35 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Puppy Linux puts itself in RAM, so I can burn more CDs
01:24:46 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Not right now, but there might be one in this house, according to my dad
01:24:49 <quintopia> i haven't even gotten halfway through the latest subnormality and it's already obvious the punchline is going to involve the waitress being the spy. try harder dude.
01:25:01 <pikhq> quintopia: EEEEH wrong.
01:25:20 <EOF> hmm
01:25:31 <EOF> so the puppy image is COMPLETELY in ram?
01:25:43 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Yes
01:25:51 <pikhq> EOF: Yes, it loads into RAM from CD and then unmounts the CD.
01:25:59 <quintopia> he got me
01:26:02 <EOF> how much ram do you have
01:26:10 <EOF> and how much are you using?
01:26:15 <pikhq> At least 128MB!
01:26:22 <EOF> ...
01:26:37 <pikhq> Below that, Puppy won't load into RAM.
01:26:54 <pikhq> Puppy, BTW, is *fucking tiny*.
01:26:58 <EOF> but how much does he *have*
01:27:14 <pikhq> At least 128MB.
01:27:27 <EOF> STFU
01:27:37 <EOF> i'm asking Sgeo|FsckPuppy
01:27:49 <pikhq> Þou firſt
01:27:57 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I have 1gb
01:28:05 <EOF> hmm
01:28:19 <EOF> how big is your iso?
01:28:24 <zzo38> I don't like the \outer command in TeX
01:28:33 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Not sure, I think Ubuntu is ~600mb?
01:28:34 <EOF> hmm
01:28:39 <EOF> ohh
01:30:23 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I can use my old computer if I have to
01:30:27 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Which does have a HD
01:30:46 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Also, I'd need to find a blank CD
01:30:46 <EOF> kk
01:31:02 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I have a bunch of blank DVDs, but old comp doesn't have a DVD drive
01:31:04 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
01:31:07 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> This computer does
01:31:11 <EOF> do you live in canada, if so i can mail an ubuntu install disk to you :)
01:31:38 * Sgeo|FsckPuppy is too impatient for that. And I'm somewhere vaguely south of you
01:31:46 <EOF> lol
01:32:15 <EOF> then just request a free one from canonical
01:32:30 * Sgeo|FsckPuppy reemphasizes impatient
01:32:37 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> I'll just use the old comp
01:32:46 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> Or, again, when I have the flash drive...
01:33:03 * Sgeo|FsckPuppy vaguely wonders if solid-state 1TB drives exist
01:33:10 <EOF> yes
01:33:19 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> ....
01:33:21 * Sgeo|FsckPuppy wants
01:33:32 <EOF> and they're getting cheaper than 2000 bucks
01:33:37 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> ...
01:34:31 <EOF> i lied
01:34:35 <EOF> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227515
01:34:42 <EOF> i bit over 2k
01:35:15 <EOF> but it's on sale
01:35:23 <EOF> 350 bucks off
01:35:26 <alise> <EOF> he is a more experienced linux user
01:35:26 <alise> * EOF > u
01:35:28 <alise> so who are you?
01:35:37 <alise> apart from irritating
01:35:41 <EOF> :)
01:35:45 <EOF> indeed
01:36:48 <alise> a bit more specification would be appreciated
01:36:49 <EOF> i'm a canadian(eww a canadian, i know right :) ) with knowlege of unix-like systems and a passion for hardware and sexual superiority
01:37:01 <alise> you wouldn't happen to know Quadr*scence, would you?
01:37:39 <alise> only whenever #esoteric turns into #mention-my-sexual-awesomeness-at-every-single-turn, it's usually his fault. or someone he dragged along.
01:37:44 <EOF> Quadrescence ?
01:37:50 <alise> great; now you've pinged him.
01:38:16 <EOF> indeed
01:38:21 <EOF> you mentioned him
01:38:38 <EOF> omg
01:38:57 <EOF> he's got no ip or host name :/
01:39:18 <alise> it's called a cloak
01:39:19 <EOF> he may well be a bot :)
01:39:29 <EOF> you don;t know
01:39:36 <alise> so is there any actual reason you mentioned your passion for sexual superiority?
01:39:56 <EOF> tell me if you think
01:40:09 <EOF> this guy's pic is kinda cool
01:40:10 <EOF> http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/hs353.snc4/41669_790499184_93_n.jpg
01:40:23 <alise> i have no idea who you are or what you're trying to achieve, but shut the fuck up.
01:40:33 <EOF> kay :
01:45:57 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 271 seconds).
01:46:04 -!- HackEgo has joined.
01:50:53 * EOF is somewhat knowledgeable about GNU/Linux
01:51:35 -!- Leonidas_ has joined.
01:51:44 <Sgeo|FsckPuppy> How did you find out about this channel?
01:51:54 -!- coppro_ has joined.
01:51:57 -!- SimonRC has joined.
01:52:43 -!- SimonRC_ has quit (Write error: Broken pipe).
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01:52:51 -!- Leonidas has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
01:52:53 <EOF> i was talking in a channel about constructed languages, and somebody mentioned the esotericity of Esperanto
01:53:34 <EOF> and i first tried esolang (common short for for esoteric language)
01:55:15 <zzo38> PicoC seems to be broken, a bit
01:55:29 <zzo38> "typedef" always causes a parse error
01:55:56 -!- augur has joined.
01:56:04 <zzo38> If you define something "void zzz(void)" it expects an argument and then says it can't set void
01:56:16 <zzo38> Statements like "0;" fail
01:56:50 <EOF> hmm
01:57:05 <EOF> zzz is the name of the function
01:57:55 <EOF> and void is both an argument and the value(or lack therof) returned...
01:58:29 <EOF> change void in the parentheses to voidarg
01:58:40 <EOF> and replace calls to the arg
01:59:07 -!- augur_ has joined.
01:59:27 <EOF> why did you mention this tho?
01:59:34 <EOF> zzo38 ?
01:59:47 <zzo38> EOF: Because the GNU C compiler doesn't work like that
02:00:14 <zzo38> Changing "void" to "voidarg" says bad type declaration
02:01:24 <EOF> or just call it with an argument
02:01:46 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
02:01:53 <EOF> void zzz(viodarg)
02:02:07 <EOF> **voidarg
02:02:15 <EOF> methinks
02:02:15 <zzo38> That doesn't work
02:02:28 <EOF> is your code open?
02:02:33 <zzo38> And calling it with an argument makes the error message that it cannot set void
02:02:39 -!- augur_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
02:03:04 <EOF> then don't use void as an arg
02:04:00 <EOF> void zzz(){grab values from variables and constants in the main function
02:04:06 <EOF> }
02:04:25 <EOF> email me your code at hamiltonham9@hotmail.com
02:04:35 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
02:04:58 <SgeoN1> I think Puppy is playing some kind of sick joke on me
02:05:10 <EOF> yeah
02:05:14 <EOF> it will do that
02:05:29 <SgeoN1> Unless Firefox with some 10.x old version of Flash really is that crashtastic
02:06:01 <SgeoN1> Geoffrey, knoppix or Ubuntu?
02:06:09 <SgeoN1> Erm eof
02:06:38 <EOF> debian
02:07:02 <EOF> or fedora if you want a user friendly distro with good repos
02:07:12 <SgeoN1> I'm not looking for a permanent installation
02:07:13 -!- Sgeo|FsckPuppy has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
02:07:30 <EOF> fedora on a usb,
02:07:35 <SgeoN1> Just a LiveCD that's usable for now
02:07:40 <EOF> hmm
02:07:54 <EOF> why can't you do a perm install
02:08:04 <EOF> dual booting is a blast
02:08:11 <SgeoN1> No hd
02:08:15 <EOF> ...
02:08:49 <EOF> iunno
02:08:58 <zzo38> EOF: I don't have email
02:09:03 <EOF> ...
02:09:38 <EOF> how do people with no hdd, and no email; make it into irc
02:09:58 <pikhq> Believe it or not, neither is necessary for TCP/IP access.
02:10:51 <SgeoN1> It's not my fault I don't have an HD!
02:10:55 <SgeoN1> Well, it is, kind of
02:12:44 <SgeoN1> Actually, I do have an HD, it's just removed from my computer. Shall I put it back in?
02:13:32 <zzo38> I need to find a good C interpreter which I can embed into CTANGLE. It needs to be small, and it must be a proper subset of C (so that any codes here can also be compiled with a C compiler), but it doesn't need to support comments, because CTANGLE strips out comments.
02:14:20 <EOF> zzo38: http://typewith.me/TXT4kmXm2O < put your code in here so i can see what you were doing
02:14:23 <zzo38> Also, the #define command should be supported.
02:14:53 <SgeoN1> Was about to suggest a nop
02:15:09 <SgeoN1> Now it just needs to do simple term rewriting?
02:15:26 <zzo38> EOF: You do not even understand at all what I am doing.
02:15:33 <EOF> nope
02:15:34 <zzo38> Do you know about Enhanced CWEB?
02:15:35 <EOF> plz
02:15:39 <EOF> explain
02:15:49 <EOF> i'm half asleep
02:15:54 <EOF> i can't infer
02:16:05 <pikhq> zzo38: TinyCC.
02:16:11 <pikhq> It's even a library.
02:16:26 <pikhq> Hooray, Fabrice Bellard.
02:16:31 <EOF> yes
02:16:35 <zzo38> Enhanced CWEB is a program I have written, based on CWEB, used for literate programming. It can combine C codes and TeX codes. There are other features, as well.
02:16:47 <EOF> it can interperet the linux kernel
02:17:24 <pikhq> EOF: Compile quickly.
02:17:29 <pikhq> As a bootloader.
02:17:51 <zzo38> It also needs to be able to compile partially and call those functions before compiling the rest of the program
02:18:07 <pikhq> zzo38: Yeah, TinyCC can compile a single function and get you a pointer to it.
02:18:23 <pikhq> It's really an amazing piece of work.
02:18:35 <EOF> http://bellard.org/tcc/tccboot.html
02:18:44 <EOF> mmm
02:18:46 <EOF> saucy
02:18:50 <zzo38> I can't use TinyCCb because it is compiler, it compiles for x86. I need it to be platform-independent interpreter (no compile)
02:19:06 <EOF> compile the linux kernel in 15 seconds on a p4
02:19:08 <pikhq> Oh, you want it platform-independent.
02:19:11 <pikhq> Um.
02:19:15 <pikhq> Your best bet is Clang.
02:19:30 <EOF> cool
02:19:35 <EOF> LLVM based
02:19:49 <pikhq> Yeah, not platform *independent*, but ported to a lot more things.
02:20:12 <zzo38> No! It needs to be platform independent. It needs to interpret only, not compile.
02:20:20 <pikhq> Nobody's written one.
02:20:27 <SgeoN1> So, a c like language?
02:20:42 <pikhq> It wouldn't be hard, it's just not been done.
02:20:42 <SgeoN1> Sounds easy enough
02:20:45 <EOF> sudo apt-get install clang
02:20:57 <zzo38> The only preprocessor command that is needed is #define I don't need #if or #include
02:20:58 * SgeoN1 slaps ^D
02:21:05 <zzo38> And I don't need support for comments either
02:21:10 <EOF> http://clang.llvm.org/
02:21:22 <SgeoN1> Can llvm be interpreted?
02:21:26 <pikhq> zzo38: Basically, you don't need the preprocessing pass outside of macros.
02:21:29 <EOF> lol
02:21:36 <pikhq> SgeoN1: Hypothetically, yes.
02:21:39 <zzo38> SgeoN1: Yes, a C like language, and it has to be a proper subset of C and the syntax like C
02:21:45 <EOF> llvm on tinycc running CLang
02:22:08 <pikhq> zzo38: I suggest you write a C interpreter. Sorry.
02:22:34 <SgeoN1> Can it be full C? Any reason for the "proper"?
02:23:32 -!- augur has joined.
02:23:46 <zzo38> SgeoN1: It can be full C, but I don't need it. Programs generated by CTANGLE are compiled using a normal C compiler anyways, I only need the interpreter so that you can write functions for generative programming in your program.
02:24:37 <SgeoN1> So don't call it proper subset?
02:25:12 <zzo38> SgeoN1: What I mean is not all features of C are needed
02:25:36 <SgeoN1> Subset, without proper, allows for that
02:25:57 <zzo38> SgeoN1: Yes, sorry, I just made a mistake
02:26:10 <zzo38> However, I still don't need it to support full C
02:26:16 <EOF> you want an interpereter that can, in real time, run your code like a script
02:26:45 <alise> <EOF> and i first tried esolang (common short for for esoteric language) ;; we're not idiots.
02:27:03 <zzo38> EOF: Yes, like that
02:27:17 <alise> <EOF> email me your code at hamiltonham9@hotmail.com ;; we know how to use pastebins
02:28:28 <zzo38> O, and it should be able to call a function that was parsed before, even during the parsing of another function.
02:30:33 <zzo38> My idea is that if CTANGLE finds a identifier "abcdef" and the function "abcdef$" exists (defined by interpreting), then it will call abcdef$() to generate the C codes for that (which does not necessarily have to be interpreted; the generated code might be used only by the C compiler).
02:30:50 <pikhq> EOF: No offense or anything, but are you familiar with the Dunning-Kruger effect?
02:31:43 <zzo38> (And by favorite pastebin is sprunge)
02:31:53 <EOF> ^^men and out of place
02:32:00 <EOF> ima leave
02:32:07 <alise> men?
02:32:19 <pikhq> Confusing use of ^ there, ^D.
02:32:51 <alise> it's ^^ = 0x0015
02:32:56 <alise> s/it's //
02:36:05 <EOF> two ^s mean two lines up
02:36:26 <alise> I'm still not sure what "men" is supposed to mean.
02:36:46 <EOF> mean
02:36:59 <pikhq> Ah
02:38:10 <EOF> the humor of that was that it's directly proving a link to the Dunning-Kruger effect, and so was that.
02:39:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
02:39:58 <alise> Please specify "that" further.
02:40:00 <SgeoN1> I think being here tempers that effect in me
02:40:17 <SgeoN1> Firefox crashed again for absolutely no reason
02:40:37 <SgeoN1> Maybe Chrome will be better
02:40:47 <SgeoN1> Chromium
02:41:45 <SgeoN1> Although I still think I'm better than the idiots who surround me irl
02:41:46 -!- mtve has quit (Ping timeout: 358 seconds).
02:42:04 -!- mtve has joined.
02:51:16 <SgeoN1> Maybe IceWM will be less crasshy
02:53:03 <zzo38> It looks like with TinyCC I might be able to make it generate codes for the virtual machine
02:53:18 <zzo38> If I can do that, then I can use it.
02:53:53 <alise> SgeoN1: Which OS?
02:54:50 <SgeoN1> Puppy Linux
02:55:06 <alise> try ubuntu :P
02:55:17 <SgeoN1> I will asap
02:55:52 <SgeoN1> I just sent an apology to someone for being an asshole when I was in 7th grade
03:01:56 <zzo38> I will try libtcc.
03:02:14 <alise> SgeoN1: Seriously?
03:02:24 <alise> How assholish?
03:03:56 <SgeoN1> How do I open a tab on this thing
03:04:13 <quintopia> are there not many languages that are entirely event-driven? the wiki doesn't seem to have an event-driven category...
03:04:23 -!- augur has joined.
03:04:25 <alise> quintopia: there are one or two, I think
03:04:30 <alise> and the idea entertained me for a while -- and still does
03:04:38 <alise> i believe there is one on the wiki. good luck finding it
03:05:35 <zzo38> I use Ubuntu at Free Geek. It is not the best but it is a full Linux distribution and it works. I use the command-line mostly.
03:06:49 <SgeoN1> LSL...
03:06:57 <alise> Whatever it is: no.
03:07:12 <alise> quintopia: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=event&fulltext=Search
03:07:16 <alise> our search does work quite well
03:07:21 <SgeoN1> It doesn't do them in a nice way, but...
03:07:23 <quintopia> alise: 2iota
03:07:26 <alise> of course there's beta-Juliet and Portia and 2iota, yes
03:07:29 <alise> cpressey's langs
03:07:32 <alise> but i recall another too
03:08:06 <quintopia> the rest on that search appear related to ABCDXYZ
03:08:14 <quintopia> which doesn't really count
03:08:23 <alise> Hmm, I swear I remember another. Oh well.
03:08:35 <alise> quintopia: you forgot beta-Juliet and Portia (2iota's predecessors, although utter failures)
03:10:10 <quintopia> alise: i didn't have to mention them since you already had
03:10:11 * alise gets inspired by Biota
03:10:15 <alise> quintopia: right :P
03:10:31 <alise> It'd be nice to have a language like Biota, except instead of having a boring data counter, the program is expected to evolve itself.
03:10:43 <alise> Like Befunge if the self-modification was integral, not an tacked-on thing.
03:11:01 <quintopia> what's the name of the original OOL again? starts with a P?
03:11:02 <alise> The results of a conditional, say, moves a code path to the right where the IP will hit it, or something.
03:11:17 <alise> Programs restructure themselves gradually with algorithms, turning calculations into "output" data...
03:11:20 <alise> quintopia: object oriented, you mean?
03:11:59 <quintopia> yes
03:12:06 <quintopia> the one that was entirely picture based
03:12:12 <quintopia> came before actual digital computers
03:12:13 <alise> quintopia: Uhh... Modula-2, successor to Pascal?
03:12:16 <alise> ... What?
03:12:28 <alise> Are you not thinking of the lambda calculus or something?
03:12:36 <quintopia> no
03:12:36 <alise> I know of no object-oriented language predating computers.
03:12:53 <quintopia> well, i should have thought you would, since this is esoteric
03:13:06 <quintopia> this should be the one place on earth that remembers
03:13:13 <quintopia> it's coming back now
03:13:15 <alise> We're not omnipotent, and it's a distinct possibility that you're hallucinating.
03:13:19 <quintopia> the name ends in kalkul
03:13:27 <alise> That rings a bell...
03:13:34 <alise> ...nope.
03:13:40 <alise> Maybe...
03:13:49 <alise> quintopia: wait -- what's your native tongue?
03:14:02 <alise> second result for *kalkul on google is the pi calculus
03:14:05 <alise> pi-kalkül
03:14:08 <alise> german
03:14:27 <alise> that doesn't predate computers though, afaik
03:14:57 * SgeoN1 will probably be eating dinner at the pizza place tomorrow. Or maybe the day after
03:16:04 <quintopia> found it
03:16:09 <alise> what's it called?
03:16:19 <quintopia> Plankalkl
03:16:28 <alise> yes that's what came to mind
03:16:33 <alise> but i couldn't place it
03:16:37 <alise> it's not OO though
03:17:55 <quintopia> you're right that it doesn't predate digital computers
03:18:01 <quintopia> apparently the Z3 used binary logic
03:18:14 <quintopia> but it definitely predates transistors...
03:20:02 <alise> quintopia: you're job is to make my language i just thought about
03:20:55 <quintopia> alise: working on it. will have it uploaded in a minute.
03:21:01 <alise> good
03:22:25 <alise> quintopia: do you like roguelikes?
03:25:16 <Mathnerd314> alise: wtf are you doing on #haskell ?
03:25:40 <alise> Mathnerd314: err, what?
03:25:51 <alise> i've been visiting #haskell since... early 2008
03:26:19 * Mathnerd314 searches logs
03:26:30 <alise> you may want to grep "ehird"
03:27:20 <zzo38> How exactly do I use libtcc anyways? Will it do what I need it to do?
03:28:17 <alise> well, it compiles... not interprets
03:28:19 <alise> is that okay?
03:28:28 * pikhq is amazed at how many accents the UK has
03:28:42 <alise> hmm, revenantphx wasn't in #haskell the last time
03:28:50 <alise> he seems terribly irritating
03:29:23 <pikhq> There's even accents retaining the T-V distinction.
03:29:23 <alise> he's acting like he's crossed the desert of enlightenment and found the truth and is now lecturing hopeless peasants :P
03:29:28 <alise> pikhq: T-V distinction?
03:29:38 <zzo38> alise: It looks like I can write a code generator, if I can write one that compiles to a virtual machine code in memory, I could do that. Can it work with partially compiled programs?
03:29:48 <pikhq> alise: In English, the difference between "thou" and "you".
03:29:57 <pikhq> Specifically, the formality bit.
03:30:14 <pikhq> It's a feature in most languages in Europe (sprachbund, not from PIE)
03:30:20 <zzo38> What is the difference between "thou" and "you"?
03:30:29 <alise> <revenantphx> Oh, this has nothing to do with Haskell.
03:30:30 <alise> <alise> precisely.
03:30:30 <alise> <revenantphx> ...
03:30:41 <alise> pikhq: Err, nobody says "thou", so I'm assuming that's what you mean.
03:30:42 <pikhq> zzo38: Thou is the second person singular informal. You is the second person singular formal and the second person plural.
03:30:47 <pikhq> alise: Yes.
03:30:51 <Gregor> zzo38: Degree of politeness.
03:30:52 <pikhq> They still use "thou".
03:31:12 <alise> pikhq: *not what you mean.
03:31:15 <alise> pikhq: Surely not.
03:31:16 <alise> Nobody does.
03:31:21 <Gregor> Thou shall not use the word "shall". It is outdated.
03:31:23 <pikhq> alise: A handful of accents do.
03:31:26 <alise> I know people and they do not do this.
03:31:30 <alise> pikhq: Maybe as "tha" or something.
03:31:47 <pikhq> It's Oop North, so that's probably what it comes out as. :P
03:31:51 <zzo38> pikhq: O, so "you" is supposed to be plural.
03:32:01 <pikhq> zzo38: Yes.
03:32:07 <alise> pikhq: Wow just look at your #haskell tab's scrollback for a bit and admire how irritatingly loud revenantphx is.
03:32:22 <alise> At least when I dominate all the discussion here I'm not /too/ idiotic.
03:32:26 <pikhq> Before the development of the T-V formality thing (it started in French), it was just a singular vs. plural distinction.
03:32:43 <pikhq> In... Pretty much all Indo-European languages.
03:32:44 <alise> ah, the french. experts at making things stupider.
03:33:00 <pikhq> Yup.
03:34:06 <pikhq> And of course, now in *most* accents "thou" is some sort of hyper-formal.
03:34:10 <alise> <revenantphx> kmc: I have homework for AP CS in hava actually
03:34:12 <pikhq> Because that's how you refer to god!
03:34:12 <bsmntbombdood> what up yo
03:34:16 <alise> AP -- isn't that high school in the US?
03:34:41 <alise> i'm pretty sure this guy is an irritating rubyist who found out about haskell on, i dunno, twitter, p=.99
03:34:43 <pikhq> alise: It's a high school class that can become college credit upon passing the relevant AP test.
03:35:02 <pikhq> Typically for the more menial college courses.
03:35:12 <alise> pikhq: right. so the veteran of the desert of enlightenment, two-week master of haskell, dominator of all #haskell discussion is complaining about his high-school homework
03:35:20 <pikhq> US education being what it is, high schools treat them as the holy grail of intelligence.
03:35:26 <alise> RIP #haskell 1997 or something -- 2010
03:35:28 <pikhq> "ZOMG YOU TOOK AP CALCULUS!"
03:36:09 <alise> <revenantphx> He wont even let me align variable assignments D:
03:36:51 <pikhq> It amazes me that the common perception of a lot of college classes is that they're impossible.
03:37:05 <pikhq> For instance: calculus is considered by many (idiots) the hardest math class in existence.
03:37:31 * alise wonders if there's a shorter way to get the sign of a number in Python than x/abs(x)...
03:37:40 <alise> ideally i want to map, say, negative to 0 and positive to 1...
03:37:43 <pikhq> Yes, the calculus of derivatives and integrals.
03:39:00 <bsmntbombdood> alise: cmp(x, 0)
03:39:12 <alise> bsmntbombdood: very nice
03:39:18 <alise> has 0 == 0, but oh well, what can you do
03:39:33 <alise> bsmntbombdood: (I'm golfing and trying to get myself an (-inf,-inf) to (inf,inf) list.)
03:39:40 <alise> maybe i'll just write a class for it
03:39:53 <alise> but that's *so* *much* *code*!
03:40:22 <alise> wait i can just use a hash table
03:40:23 <alise> duh
03:40:24 <bsmntbombdood> isn't (inf, inf) = {inf}?
03:40:49 <alise> bsmntbombdood: (inf,inf) being a coordinate tuple there, or what do you mean?
03:41:06 <bsmntbombdood> (inf, inf) being a range
03:41:10 <alise> no, coordinates here
03:41:22 <alise> i just want an infinite 2d plane centred at (0,0)
03:41:26 <alise> but again, a dictionary works
03:42:04 <bsmntbombdood> so i got a job programming php
03:42:09 <bsmntbombdood> i miss python :(
03:46:07 <zzo38> I can also try PicoC but it says very small, but various things don't work
03:46:42 <bsmntbombdood> or even real languages in general
03:50:29 <alise> def D(x,y):
03:50:29 <zzo38> PicoC seems to work badly. After a variable "x" is declared, then using "#define x 4" results in "'oUB' is already defined"
03:50:29 <alise> for Y in range(y,y+80):
03:50:29 <alise> for X in range(x,x+24):
03:50:29 <alise> s.addch(Y-y,X-y,w.get((Y-40,X-12),46))
03:50:32 <alise> now why doesn't this work...
03:51:46 <SgeoN1> Leaving the house, bleh
03:52:23 <zzo38> If 'y' is undefined, a code such as "void qq() { y++; }" will not result in an error until you try to call "qq();"
03:53:01 <alise> "X-y" lol
03:54:07 <zzo38> I also got the message "macro is not a function - can't call". But it is a macro that takes parameters.
03:55:56 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
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03:56:40 <zzo38> I think PicoC is broken.
03:58:51 <bsmntbombdood> If 'y' is undefined, a code such as "void qq() { y++; }" will not result in an error until you try to call "qq();"
03:58:52 <bsmntbombdood> lolwut
03:58:57 <zzo38> Look at the defects in PicoC listed here: http://code.google.com/p/picoc/issues/list
03:58:58 <bsmntbombdood> static typing ftw
03:59:44 <quintopia> aha! i knew there were people here who actually programmed for a living!
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03:59:57 <zzo38> I suppose it is OK that the qq() function given there causes an error only when you call it, but it isn't OK that "#define x 4" results in "'oUB' is already defined"
03:59:59 <pikhq> Should I have an evil plan to save the world? I think so.
04:00:00 <alise> quintopia: err, who?
04:00:03 <alise> oh, bsmntbombdood
04:00:07 <alise> yeah, bsmntbombdood never comes here any more
04:00:08 <alise> case in point
04:00:10 <zzo38> Also \ at the end of a macro line is not accepted
04:00:15 <alise> i think cpressey is the only regular who develops professionally
04:00:31 <alise> and, really, it's his channel, we just live in it :)
04:01:13 <pikhq> quintopia: I used to.
04:01:25 <pikhq> I'm currently unemployed. And a college student besides.
04:01:37 <quintopia> what level?
04:02:32 <pikhq> Undergrad
04:02:40 <alise> "PicoC is a very small C interpreter for scripting. It was originally written for scripting a UAV's on-board flight system and it's also very suitable for other robotic, embedded and non-embedded applications too.
04:02:42 <alise> The core C source code is around 4000 lines of code. It's not intended to be a complete implementation of ISO C but it has all the essentials. When compiled it only takes a few k of code space and is also very sparing of data space. This means it can work well in small embedded devices. It's also a fun example of how to create a very small language implementation while still keeping the code readable."
04:02:51 <alise> zzo38: i think it's not aiming for absolute standards-compliance
04:02:53 <alise> pikhq: i thought you sysadminned
04:03:11 <pikhq> alise: And developed. Mostly patches to make programs comply.
04:03:44 <alise> if you can call that programming :D
04:03:50 <zzo38> alise: That's OK it is doesn't do it absolutely, but it has to work good, instead of working badly
04:04:00 <pikhq> I spent a month doing that to a program once. It counts!
04:04:08 <alise> (23, 79, 46)
04:04:13 <alise> Why would this break curses addch()?!
04:04:45 <alise> wtf with +79 it yields no error
04:04:49 <alise> what's up with that.
04:05:24 <zzo38> Isn't there any better program than this???
04:05:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
04:05:38 <alise> zzo38: it's not bad, it's just not designed for your purpose
04:05:44 <alise> you could probably buy one of the proper c interpreters
04:05:54 <alise> http://www.softintegration.com/
04:05:56 <alise> Ch for instance
04:06:32 <zzo38> I can't do with buying one, it has to be free software
04:07:09 <zzo38> I will try to use PicoC anyways, though, to see if it might work
04:07:20 <zzo38> Maybe I can modify it a bit, if necessary
04:09:54 <zzo38> Ch is not even platform-independent
04:10:52 <alise> it's portable
04:10:56 <alise> so yes it is
04:13:06 <zzo38> PicoC also does not seem to supprt typedef (although I do not get an error about 'typedef' being undefined)
04:13:08 <alise> http://sites.google.com/site/redcodenl/patent-infringement
04:13:33 <alise> "You wrote some code using an FFT to identify music files. We also do that, and make money off it. Therefore, stop it. It's illegal or something!"
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04:15:31 <augur> heyo
04:15:46 <alise> hi
04:16:53 <alise> pikhq: I challenge you to a COMPETITION
04:17:01 <augur> hows life, alise
04:17:04 <alise> augur: lifey
04:17:07 <augur> awesome
04:17:32 <augur> someone posted a picture of some random boy claiming it was you
04:17:33 <augur> :|
04:17:45 <alise> Yes.
04:17:58 <alise> If you didn't notice that was the same person whose trolling you were encouraging the day before.
04:18:14 <augur> i dont really pay attention to this channel so :D
04:18:14 <Gregor> Hahawtf?
04:18:27 <alise> Gregor: wat
04:18:27 <augur> but i will say, the boy in the pic he posted was a total hotty
04:18:37 <augur> and if you had become that boy i would've been all "zomg wat"
04:18:44 <alise> So I've avoided rape.
04:18:50 <alise> That counts as a good day in my opinion.
04:18:59 <Gregor> It would only start as rape.
04:19:10 <zzo38> Perhaps I can just fix PicoC.
04:19:19 <augur> alise: well, it wouldn't've been rape
04:19:21 <augur> trust me 8D
04:19:24 <alise> augur: PICOC!
04:19:47 <augur> something like that :D
04:19:54 <alise> ...
04:20:03 <augur> but seriously now
04:20:12 <augur> good night
04:20:27 <Gregor> Really, if you want a "C interpreter", you'd probably be best to munge something around a C compiler.
04:21:06 <augur> nah, you'd be better off having a simulated machine that you compile to!
04:21:17 <alise> Gregor: No, it has to be totally portable, apparently.
04:21:21 <augur> ok night
04:21:23 <augur> so tired
04:21:50 <Gregor> alise: How totally portable? Windows? OS X? Hardware is easy in this case, software is not.
04:22:08 <alise> Gregor: Anything that runs C I'd assume.
04:22:28 <Gregor> Right, so I suppose munging something around 20 C compilers is no fun :P
04:22:40 <alise> Although I'm pretty sure zzo38's code flagrantly violates the C standards in more ways than one.
04:24:12 <Gregor> All C code flagrantly violates C standards :P
04:25:03 <alise> Gregor: Rather, all "C" "code" is not actually C code :P
04:25:59 <Gregor> Fair enough :P
04:26:11 <Gregor> $ ./picoc -i
04:26:13 <Gregor> starting picoc
04:26:15 <Gregor> picoc> a
04:26:17 <Gregor> picoc: lex.c:500: LexTokenise: Assertion `ReserveSpace >= MemUsed' failed.
04:26:19 <Gregor> Aborted
04:26:19 <alise> xDDD
04:26:21 <Gregor> I'm impressed.
04:27:15 <alise> Gregor:
04:27:17 <alise> #include <stdlib.h>
04:27:17 <alise> #include <stdio.h>
04:27:17 <alise> int main(void) { return puts("Hello, world!") == EOF ? EXIT_FAILURE : EXIT_SUCCESS; }
04:27:23 <alise> I'm pretty sure that's bona-fide C code.
04:27:34 <Gregor> In what way is that not bona-fide C code?
04:27:37 <Gregor> That's fine.
04:27:44 <alise> Well, it's the first piece ever written!
04:28:02 <Gregor> Ohohoh
04:28:05 <Gregor> :P
04:28:18 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
04:29:08 <alise> "Given a a series of integers print φ(n) for each of them."
04:29:10 <alise> Oh come on.
04:29:24 <alise> Next anagolf problem: "Implement a computer algebra system!"
04:29:48 -!- SgeoN1 has joined.
04:30:06 <alise> wd@>5&p:".;._2(1!:1)3
04:30:09 <alise> 21 characters of J including IO
04:30:12 <alise> Like everything else
04:33:35 <alise> NOTE TO SELF: install J tomorrow.
04:34:23 <alise> Goodnight.
04:34:24 <alise> Bye.
04:34:27 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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04:54:27 <Quadrescence> [19:37.21] <EOF> Quadrescence ?
05:05:30 <zzo38> PicoC does not even support the "goto" command.
05:22:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
05:35:57 <quintopia> damn
05:36:36 <quintopia> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/1mpr0mp2
05:36:54 <quintopia> too practical to be on esolang?
06:03:07 <Ilari> quintopia: "CP0, CP1, etc.: The C prefix indicates that the output pin should be driven low. Again, this is only legal for" (cuts off)
06:07:06 <Ilari> quintopia: To me, that doesn't look too practical...
06:11:40 <SgeoN1> How many languages are there that if you learn, then walk away from, become unreadable?
06:11:45 <SgeoN1> J is one
06:22:26 <quintopia> Ilari: thanks
06:29:04 <quintopia> Ilari: it seems obvious to me that it is Turing-complete. what would be the shortest way to prove it?
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06:36:31 <quintopia>
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06:50:40 <Ilari> quintopia: Implement algorithm that takes subset of brainfuck (+, -, <, >, [ and ]) and outputs 1mpr0mp2 program that halts if and only if the original brainfuck program halts? And then note that there is obiviously nothing in the language that's super-turing... That's at least one way.
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09:24:03 <Phantom_Hoover> Is it just me, or does it look like a Dinosaur Comics/Doctor McNinja crossover is headed our way?
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10:42:26 <quintopia> have added a new category suggestion to the talk page. quickly approve it so its absence will stop annoying me
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11:42:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, doing some quick benchmarking on complex queries (such as the ? ratio ones) it seems that postgres is faster than sqlite
11:45:57 <Vorpal> hm not doing case insensitive for nick. Could affect it
11:47:23 <Vorpal> ah there is "ilike"
11:50:48 <Vorpal> hm also on queries not using the nick column at all
11:52:19 <Vorpal> select type,count(*) as cnt from logs group by type order by cnt desc; takes 1519 ms in postgres according to itself. Not sure how to get such exact value in sqlite, but wall clock based timing indicates about 13 seconds there
11:54:15 <Vorpal> hm it seems based on explain that sqlite creates a temporary table? And postgres does a seq scan on the table then a hash aggregate
11:54:25 <Vorpal> both sorts at the end
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12:49:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, eh found a bug with your script: it doesn't handle modes properly at all!
12:50:31 <Vorpal> as in, it doesn't capture the actual mode change
12:50:37 <Vorpal> just that a mode change was done
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12:57:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, btw to speed up full import: create indexes after importing data. This is faster for both sqlite and postgres
12:58:14 <Vorpal> *much* faster
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13:28:10 <Vorpal> sqlite> select (select count(*) from logs where type = 3) - (select count(*) from logs where type in (4,5,6));
13:28:10 <Vorpal> 308
13:28:12 <Vorpal> strange
13:28:22 <Vorpal> that is joins - (parts + quits + kicks)
13:28:34 <Vorpal> the value ought to be equal to number of people in here
13:29:05 <Vorpal> that is around 45 or so (since the last log fetched is not from this very instant, but about an hour ago or such)
13:30:23 <Vorpal> hm clog losing connection probably resulted in some mismatch
13:32:30 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh and: initial data import into sqlite is faster than for postgressql, but queries that aren't able to use indexes directly are significantly faster in postgres.
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13:33:45 <Vorpal> using the COPY construct would probably be faster for importing into postgres, but that would require parsing the logs and storing them into a stream first. Would mean a major rewrite of the program.
14:21:59 -!- alise has joined.
14:26:01 <alise> 01:29:03 <fizzie> I miss the time I was a "real" student; those get a 50 % discount.
14:26:02 <alise> http://www.phdcomics.com/comics/archive/phd072709s.gif
14:26:22 <alise> 02:42:26 <quintopia> have added a new category suggestion to the talk page. quickly approve it so its absence will stop annoying me
14:26:26 <alise> *very* unlikely
14:26:33 <alise> Graue is touchy about categories.
14:27:21 <alise> 04:41:09 <fizzie> In the raw clog format, around 117 MB.
14:27:24 <alise> only 50 MB not long ago :)
14:27:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, current versions with fixed parsing of mode changes and putting new nick for nick changes into target column. To make full import fast: move the db.commit() call to top level and add the indexes (apart from primary keys) after the data has been imported: http://sprunge.us/TEhQ http://sprunge.us/QMgO
14:30:48 <alise> "The computer needs to restart to finish installing updates. Please save your work before continuing."
14:30:55 <alise> for kernel headers?! oh wait, no, kernel update
14:31:01 * alise ponders ksplice
14:31:48 <Vorpal> alise, ubuntu?
14:31:54 <alise> yeah
14:31:59 <Vorpal> alise, if so yeah the last update would have worked fine with ksplice I think
14:32:07 <Vorpal> checking the changelog
14:32:18 <alise> yeah i don't really care enough though, i'll just not reboot
14:32:32 <alise> Vorpal: btw, i now have strong empirical evidence that this glossy screen is /far/ superior to other glossy screens
14:32:39 <alise> I saw someone with a Dell Latitude laptop
14:32:47 <Vorpal> alise, what brand is your laptop
14:32:49 <alise> and it was more than twice as glossy as this one
14:32:52 <alise> Vorpal: Toshiba
14:32:54 <Vorpal> ah
14:32:57 <Vorpal> well, could be
14:33:18 <alise> It's glossy but reflections are very, very subtle and if you focus on the screen, completely invisible most of the time.
14:33:37 <alise> Of course, in daylight you can see them slightly, but then again, it's usable in sunlight, unlike matte displays.
14:34:00 <alise> Actually the part that accounts for almost all perceived reflections is the plastic border around the screen; that's pretty reflective.
14:34:17 <alise> Basically I always forgot I was using a glossy display when I first got this.
14:34:23 <alise> The Dell screen was /awful/.
14:34:30 * Vorpal wonders if "select count(*) as cnt,length(body) as len from logs where type = 0 group by len order by cnt desc;" will work
14:34:50 <Vorpal> hm numbers seems plausible
14:34:51 <Vorpal> seem*
14:35:20 <Vorpal> length = 3 is most common at 54081 lines of that length
14:35:38 <Vorpal> second place is length 2 at 48851
14:35:59 <Vorpal> there is one message of length 0??
14:36:47 <alise> Vorpal: is there a way to limit 1 for each group?
14:36:56 <alise> that is, only show the first one for the first count thingy?
14:37:12 <Vorpal> alise, you mean, one "example" message of each length?
14:37:18 <alise> i guess so
14:37:25 <alise> 7|409
14:37:26 <alise> 7|414
14:37:26 <alise> 7|417
14:37:26 <alise> ->
14:37:29 <alise> 7|409
14:37:45 <Vorpal> eh, what is the 7 here?
14:37:57 <alise> Urgh, I hate SQL so much.
14:37:58 <Vorpal> oh wait, you are using sqlite
14:38:01 <alise> Vorpal: I just ran your query.
14:38:21 <Vorpal> alise, right, I was doing it in postgre, so I got confused by the different output format
14:38:26 <alise> Also, when I'm doing a query that isn't selecting for me, just returning results that involve me, or you, how can I group things?
14:38:33 <alise> That is, "treat X, Y and Z as the same for grouping".
14:39:30 <Vorpal> alise, you mean nicks? well (nick like 'alise%' or nick like 'ehird%' or nick like 'tusho%') is what I used so far. Then separate queries for me and you
14:39:39 <Vorpal> which is indeed cumbersome
14:39:46 <Vorpal> alise, maybe create a few with them merged :D
14:39:51 <Vorpal> a view*
14:39:55 <Vorpal> not "a few"
14:39:56 <alise> yes ut
14:39:58 <alise> *but
14:39:58 <Vorpal> weird typo
14:40:00 <alise> sqlite> select count(*), nick from logs where type = 0 group by nick order by count(*) desc limit 10;
14:40:07 <alise> how can I merge the ehird, alise, tusho groups into one?
14:40:20 <alise> i'm not very good at sql, mostly because i hate it
14:40:48 <Vorpal> alise, I can't think of a way. Maybe some string function to replace all ehird and so on with alise and then select on that sub query?
14:41:02 <alise> See now in Prolog... :)
14:41:14 <Vorpal> alise, yeah right, so do that then
14:41:19 <alise> So basically I replace the logs table with a subquery?
14:41:22 <alise> Also, yeah, yeah, I'm on it...
14:41:41 <Vorpal> alise, anyway those 7 things there, they were "7 times have we seen a string of length <whatever"
14:41:43 <alise> Okay, so X == (select * from X). (I've never sub-frommed before.)
14:41:44 <Vorpal> <whatever>*
14:41:49 <alise> Vorpal: ah
14:41:51 <Vorpal> alise, so merging those seems a bit strange
14:41:57 <alise> plot it!
14:42:00 <alise> plot the result
14:42:13 <alise> so most of our messages are 3 characters long xDD
14:42:23 <Vorpal> alise, would have been done already if you hadn't been buggering me about SQL the past few minutes :P
14:44:20 <alise> sqlite> select count(*), nickx from (select *, replace(nick,"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs) where type = 0 group by nickx order by count(*) desc limit 10;
14:44:22 <alise> not sure this works :(
14:44:37 <alise> oh, it does
14:44:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has changed nick to Behold.
14:44:53 <alise> hmm
14:44:59 <alise> is there a replace() that operates on "foo%", I wonder...
14:45:01 -!- Behold has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory.
14:45:39 <alise> seems not
14:45:41 <alise> stupid sql
14:46:09 * alise just replaces ehird`/alise`/ehirdiphone/aliseiphone/iEhird
14:46:26 <alise> Vorpal: you've never used a nick other than AnMaster or Vorpal for any significant length of time, right?
14:47:49 <alise> sqlite> select count(*), nickx from (select *, replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"iEhird","alise"),"aliseiphone","alise"),"ehirdiphone","alise"),"alise`","alise"),"ehird`","alise"),"AnMaster","Vorpal"),"tusho","alise"),"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs) where type = 0 group by nickx order by count(*) desc limit 10;
14:47:49 <alise> 371209|alise
14:47:49 <alise> 220357|Vorpal
14:47:53 <alise> Vorpal: Ha ha ha observe my dominance.
14:48:01 <alise> lament is on that list now, haha
14:48:20 <fizzie> Re creating indices only after a large import, that's a very common speedup trick; didn't think about it yesterday, though.
14:48:36 <alise> fizzie: Is there any reason other than disk space not just to add an index on fucking everything?#
14:48:39 <alise> *everything?
14:48:46 <alise> 371209|alise
14:48:46 <alise> 220357|Vorpal
14:48:46 <alise> 101196|ais523
14:48:50 <alise> Look at that.
14:48:55 <alise> (I did scarf -> ais523.)
14:50:25 <Vorpal> hm
14:50:41 <Vorpal> alise, I used AnMaster|ipv6 and so on
14:50:43 <Vorpal> and a few more
14:50:45 <fizzie> Incidentally, is there some particular reason why you do that with a subquery and not just select count(*), replace(...) as nickx from logs where type = 0 group by nickx order by count(*) desc limit 10?
14:50:48 <Vorpal> alise, but far less than you
14:50:54 <alise> "Moreover, some widely used database systems include ideas and algorithms developed for Datalog. For example, the SQL:1999 standard includes recursive queries, and the Magic Sets algorithm (initially developed for the faster evaluation of Datalog queries) is implemented in IBM's DB2."
14:51:00 <alise> Datalog, oh yeah.
14:51:04 <Vorpal> so we are talking about 2000 messages instead of 20000 or such
14:51:11 <alise> fizzie: Um... because Vorpal was stupid and told me to use a subquery.
14:51:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, do you know how to get log y scale in gnuplot?
14:51:16 <alise> Vorpal: So basically I WIN.
14:51:20 -!- EOF has joined.
14:51:29 <alise> sqlite> select sum(length(body)) as s, nickx from (select *, replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"scarf","ais523"),"iEhird","alise"),"aliseiphone","alise"),"ehirdiphone","alise"),"alise`","alise"),"ehird`","alise"),"AnMaster","Vorpal"),"tusho","alise"),"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs) where type = 0 group by nickx order by s desc limit 10;
14:51:29 <alise> 13946929|alise
14:51:29 <alise> 8420495|Vorpal
14:51:29 <alise> 5119631|ais523
14:51:35 <alise> That's pretty impressive.
14:51:37 <Vorpal> alise, I said I couldn't think of any other way than subquery
14:51:47 <Vorpal> alise, I'm no SQL expert either
14:52:00 <EOF> iHATE SQL
14:52:11 <Vorpal> EOF, who are you?
14:52:21 <fizzie> Vorpal: You can simply do "using 1:(log($2))" to get the proper log-scale shape, but then the ticks and labels and such will have those raw log numbers.
14:52:24 <EOF> internal string array databases FTW
14:52:36 <Vorpal> EOF, for logs of this channel?
14:52:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm
14:53:00 <EOF> yeah
14:53:01 <fizzie> "set logscale y" (or "set logscale y N" for base N) if you want a "proper" log-scaled plot.
14:53:02 <EOF> carry on
14:54:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, what about hiding legend?
14:55:00 <fizzie> Vorpal: set key off
14:55:02 <Vorpal> ah
14:55:20 <fizzie> Or maybe "unset key". Or maybe both work.
14:55:23 <EOF> hmm
14:55:24 <alise> Error: no such function: mean
14:55:27 <alise> Well...fuck...you?
14:55:36 <Vorpal> fizzie, set key off worked
14:55:40 <alise> Oh, avg().
14:55:41 <Vorpal> now to figure out sizing the thing
14:55:43 <alise> How wonderfully imprecise.
14:55:49 <EOF> could you guys give me an indication of WTF you are talking about?
14:55:50 <fizzie> alise: It's also just sum/count, anyway.
14:55:54 <Vorpal> <alise> Error: no such function: mean <alise> Well...fuck...you? <-- how mean
14:55:58 <fizzie> alise: There's a soundex approximate-matching function in sqlite, you could use that for nick-folding.
14:56:00 <alise> fizzie: aka mean :P
14:56:05 <alise> fizzie: haha wow
14:56:18 <Vorpal> EOF, we are generating useless statistics on the logs for this channel (from 2004 to now)
14:56:26 <EOF> yay
14:56:30 <alise> Whoa, sorting by average message length changes EVERYTHING.
14:56:34 <EOF> are the logs open data?
14:56:35 <alise> 454.0|fizzief
14:56:36 <alise> 325.5|ElMexicano
14:56:36 <alise> 325.5|Linuxiano
14:56:36 <alise> 325.0|Yst
14:56:36 <alise> 284.5|Toyd
14:56:36 <alise> 241.0|ololobot_
14:56:38 <alise> 238.0|mycroshift
14:56:41 <alise> 221.0|ghostless
14:56:42 <alise> 203.0|fizzieg
14:56:44 <Vorpal> fizzief?
14:56:45 <alise> 198.666666666667|Mathematica
14:56:46 <alise> EOF: no extremely secret
14:56:48 <alise> nobody can have them
14:56:50 <EOF> what about me?
14:56:51 <alise> Hey, that Mathematica was my bot.
14:56:54 <alise> EOF: nope
14:56:57 <Vorpal> EOF, did you check topic?
14:56:58 <alise> you have to pay for them
14:57:21 <alise> 05:23:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm I looked at Gregor's hg repo for logs. why is there a fizzie directory in https://codu.org/projects/esotericlogs/hg/index.cgi/file/0ad952ce6894 ?
14:57:26 <alise> don't check that out without asking him first
14:57:32 <alise> it fucks with his server
14:57:37 <alise> due to the traffic
14:57:58 <EOF> cool logs
14:57:59 <fizzie> Vorpal: I can't quite recall what "fizzief" was for; I usually append a letter that's somehow related to the client or computer or something, but I don't know what "f" might stand for.
14:58:17 <EOF> i'm going to merge them all
14:58:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, also egobot somehow managed a line of length = 0
14:58:21 <Vorpal> I have no idea how
14:58:32 <alise>
14:58:38 <alise> Vorpal: perhaps a control char
14:58:40 <alise> that the client stripped
14:58:42 <alise> but not the server
14:58:45 <alise> client = clog
14:58:48 <Vorpal> alise, hm, perhaps
14:59:00 <Vorpal> did you see any empty line from me ther?
14:59:01 <Vorpal> there*
14:59:05 <alise> no
14:59:06 <EOF> ./printall > fulllog
14:59:09 <alise> not \0, presumably
14:59:15 <alise> but perhaps \1 or \255 or something like that
14:59:18 <Vorpal> alise, ah, was a single color-code start
14:59:18 <alise> EOF: seriously?
14:59:20 <fizzie> Vorpal: Did you filter for type=0? There's one zero-length "act" there, at least.
14:59:20 <alise> cat * > log
14:59:25 <EOF> yeah
14:59:25 <alise> how can you not think of that?
14:59:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, yes I filtered
14:59:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, since length(NULL) seems useless
14:59:43 <alise> select * from logs order by random() limit 10; is fun
14:59:47 <alise> 315078|2007-07-22 13:36:26|blahbot`|||0|Reloaded.
14:59:49 <alise> my reloadable bot!
14:59:52 <EOF> but i would have to cd into the workign directory :?
14:59:59 <alise> EOF: cat logs/* > full
15:00:06 <EOF> and i is MAJOR NUVB
15:00:08 <alise> writing a script is utterly pointless
15:00:15 <EOF> yeah
15:00:18 <alise> you said you were experienced with unix-like systems and gnu/linux especially
15:00:29 <fizzie> Aw, [the soundex() function] "is only available if the SQLITE_SOUNDEX compile-time option is used when SQLite is built", and Ubuntu's sqlite doesn't do that. :(
15:00:35 <EOF> i don't use cat so much now
15:00:39 <alise> fizzie: bugger
15:00:43 <alise> EOF: Why the hell not...?
15:00:54 <alise> ./07.07.17:05:42:48 <blahbot`> I am also from ~do, but with the new command;command form.
15:00:58 <alise> oh yeah, the gaping security hole feature
15:02:54 <Vorpal> alise, here is the plot in question: http://sprunge.us/XGbZ
15:03:08 * Vorpal runs
15:03:14 <alise> Vorpal: gtfo
15:03:32 <alise> it's not like it's encoded perfect mathematical curves there either
15:04:21 <Vorpal> alise, here anyway: http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/tmp/msglen.svg
15:04:28 -!- yiyus_ has joined.
15:04:40 <Vorpal> alise, and indeed it doesn't
15:04:53 <alise> Hmm, how best to render that plot? I know, I'll set the font to Comic Sans.
15:04:56 <alise> Ahh, thank god it's in svg.
15:05:01 <alise> Now it's much more readable.
15:05:07 <Vorpal> alise, what XD
15:06:21 <Vorpal> alise, anyway reuploaded it to http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/tmp/msglen.svg with less square size
15:06:26 <Vorpal> to make it easier to read
15:06:49 <alise> ./07.07.19:10:39:55 <blahbot`> ^y^x$^x^y$^x^y^x$^x^yx$xx$^x$^x^yx$xx^x$^x^yx$xx$$^x^y^x$^x^yx$xx$^x$^x^yx$xx^x$^x^yx$xx$^x^y^x$^x^yx$xx$^x$^x^yx$xx^x$^x^yx$xx
15:06:51 <alise> Okaaaayyyy...
15:08:20 <Vorpal> !bf ++[>+++<-]>+.
15:08:25 <EOF> :)
15:08:30 <Vorpal> that was what gave the one char thingy
15:08:31 <Vorpal> before
15:08:36 * Vorpal waits for EgoBot to react
15:08:41 <Vorpal> !help
15:08:42 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
15:08:55 <Vorpal> hm maybe it it doesn't pass the ircd any more
15:09:13 <Vorpal> ^bf ++[>+++<-]>+.
15:09:22 <Vorpal> hm presumably
15:10:10 <alise> 14:34:45 <RodgerTheGreat> how many people here pronounce "char" as "care" and how many pronounce it as in "charred"?
15:10:13 <alise> "car", actually...
15:10:58 <EOF> ...
15:11:01 <EOF> k
15:11:17 <Vorpal> EOF, so who are you? Someone relatively new here or someone who just changed nick?
15:11:46 <alise> he's new.
15:11:51 <Vorpal> right
15:11:54 <EOF> someone who learned of this channel yesterday
15:11:55 <alise> Vorpal: btw I /msg'd you
15:12:07 <Vorpal> alise, you didn't?
15:12:09 <EOF> did you now
15:12:17 <alise> Vorpal: i did a while back
15:12:20 <alise> not sure if you saw
15:12:33 <Vorpal> alise, err, I think I had a bogus setting in my client
15:12:38 <alise> Vorpal: I can resend.
15:12:42 <Vorpal> alise, yes please
15:13:13 <alise> Vorpal: done
15:14:16 <EOF> :)
15:15:55 <alise> Vorpal: any ideas on how to count occurences of a substring in a string in sql?
15:16:01 <alise> maybe sqlite is lacking here
15:16:06 <alise> but it implements the standard...
15:16:42 <fizzie> That doesn't sound like something there would be a function for.
15:16:55 <Vorpal> alise, you mean like find all messages containing a substring? Or like total number of times that substring appears (counting duplicates in a given message as several, instead of one)
15:16:55 <Vorpal> ?
15:17:24 <EOF> just grep your dir :)
15:17:25 <fizzie> I assumed the latter; the first is just like/glob.
15:17:25 <Vorpal> alise, the former is easy, the latter I have no clue how to do
15:17:37 <alise> Vorpal: "abbbbacca" on "a" -> 3
15:17:41 <Vorpal> yeah the first is body like '%foo%'
15:17:44 <Vorpal> the latter hm...
15:17:44 <alise> yeah
15:17:52 <alise> sqlite> select count(*) as n, replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"scarf","ais523"),"iEhird","alise"),"aliseiphone","alise"),"ehirdiphone","alise"),"alise`","alise"),"ehird`","alise"),"AnMaster","Vorpal"),"tusho","alise"),"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs where type = 0 and body like "%fuck%" group by nickx order by n desc limit 10;
15:17:52 <alise> 3806|alise
15:17:52 <alise> 1250|pikhq
15:17:52 <alise> 735|oklopol
15:17:56 <alise> not an accurate measure, but
15:18:15 <alise> i'm pretty sure i'll come on top for fucking in the end. pun not intended yet no effort was taken to avoid.
15:18:19 <Vorpal> alise, you could perhaps output the result lines instead and then grep that?
15:18:25 <alise> Vorpal: xD
15:18:45 <Vorpal> alise, I'm pretty sure that sql fans would claim doing this in sql would be against some normalisation principle or such :P
15:18:46 <alise> Vorpal: i could just grep :P
15:18:49 <fizzie> Explode all possible substrings of each line into another table, then it's just a count there.
15:18:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, haha
15:18:57 <alise> fizzie: I'll get right on it!
15:19:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, how many GB?
15:19:14 <fizzie> Very many, is my guess.
15:19:14 <alise> 369|instead of ">", "I fucked your mother last night"|lament
15:19:21 <alise> selecting text there too produces a wonderful flavour-chart of fucks
15:19:27 <alise> 302|but I /think/ that's a working dtou script in Brainfuck|ais523
15:19:30 <alise> how predictable
15:19:35 <alise> hmm, does like have a word boundary thing?
15:19:44 <Vorpal> alise, personally I would create a view for that replace madness
15:19:52 <alise> body like "fuck%" or body like "% fuck%"
15:19:52 <alise> there
15:20:01 <alise> Vorpal: i'm too lazy :D
15:20:08 <alise> yay now ais523 is no longer on it
15:20:11 <alise> that filthy non-curser
15:20:31 <alise> Vorpal: grepping the output means i might as well just grep my hardcopy logs
15:20:37 <alise> but that doesn't order it for me
15:21:03 <Vorpal> alise, well depends on exactly what you want to do. I mean, you aren't supposed to write the entire client program in SQL generally :P
15:21:33 <Vorpal> alise, from postgres I get:
15:21:35 <Vorpal> ERROR: column "scarf" does not exist
15:21:36 <Vorpal> LINE 1: ...lace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"scarf","a...
15:21:36 <Vorpal> ^
15:21:44 <alise> lol postgre fails
15:21:55 <Vorpal> alise, sure this is completely standard?
15:22:00 <Vorpal> oh wait
15:22:05 <Vorpal> I think I'm in the wrong db
15:22:06 <Vorpal> maybe
15:22:09 <alise> it's standard.
15:22:17 <alise> maybe nesting so much isn't :)
15:22:24 <alise> Vorpal: and pah, with LISPABASE it's easy
15:22:35 <Vorpal> hm
15:22:38 <alise> you write Lisp-datalog queries seamlessly integrated with Lisp!
15:22:48 <Vorpal> alise, link to this wonderful thing
15:23:40 <fizzie> alise: Incidentally, PostgreSQL can do regexp_replace() (and regexp_split_to_table, and then you can get the table length for count) to text.
15:23:46 <alise> sorry, ~/mind is chmodded solely to me
15:23:58 <alise> fizzie: POSTGRES POSTGRES POSTGRES
15:24:06 <alise> *snifff*
15:24:14 <Vorpal> alise, actually it is postgres doing it right
15:24:24 <alise> NOTHING'S RIIIIGHT
15:24:24 <Vorpal> alise, it implements " as the sql standard says I think
15:24:30 <alise> which is how?
15:24:31 <Vorpal> you want ' around strings
15:24:35 <alise> whatever
15:24:45 <Vorpal> alise, " quotes a column or table in case it has the name of a key word
15:25:01 -!- Flonk has joined.
15:25:57 <alise> ./07.07.31:14:46:15 <blahbot`> Errno::ENOENT: (eval):1:in `initialize': No such
15:25:57 <alise> file or directory - BIG GAPING HELLO.JPG-STYLE SECURITY HOLE
15:32:09 -!- olsner has joined.
15:32:28 <alise> Why is it that the best applications demand reinventing everything first?
15:33:41 <alise> I need someone to poke with questions about a Prolog database in Lisp. :|
15:33:47 <Vorpal> alise, http://sprunge.us/bfQW
15:33:59 <alise> thuso
15:34:02 <Vorpal> oops
15:34:15 <alise> so anyway who wins
15:34:22 <Vorpal> alise, was it "tusho"?
15:34:23 <alise> er wait
15:34:25 <alise> Vorpal: yes
15:34:27 <alise> yours is crap
15:34:30 <alise> it doesn't do the useful thing
15:34:34 <alise> i.e. count individual fucks
15:34:55 <alise> Vorpal: does postgres have an eval("1+1+1+1") => 4?
15:35:07 <alise> if so, regex replace every non-fuck with nothing, then regex replace every fuck with 1+
15:35:08 <alise> append 0
15:35:10 <alise> and eval()
15:35:11 <alise> to get fuckcount
15:35:20 <olsner> alise: SICP includes a prolog-in-scheme, doesn't it?
15:35:24 <Vorpal> alise, no function with the name eval to do that at least
15:35:37 <alise> olsner: it's more like datalog here though, with some sort of efficient algorithm (magic sets?)
15:35:41 <alise> and database-oriented
15:35:42 <alise> Vorpal: bah
15:35:50 <alise> Vorpal: use pl/sql :P
15:36:01 <Vorpal> alise, yeah but I would have to learn pl/sql first :P
15:36:07 <alise> Vorpal: then you can just use regex to make afuckbcfuck -> xx for the two fucks
15:36:09 <alise> then run a procedure on it
15:36:11 <alise> that j...
15:36:11 <alise> wait
15:36:17 <alise> length(replace fuck with "x" and remove others)
15:36:23 <Vorpal> something like that yeah
15:36:26 <alise> ...
15:36:30 <alise> can Postgres handle \0 in a string?
15:36:34 <alise> if so, since \0 can't be said on IRC,
15:36:45 <fizzie> alise: With postgres, you just need to regex-split all lines with "fuck" into an array, then take array-length minus 1 as the fuck-count.
15:36:49 <Vorpal> alise, I assume it can, but maybe the client can't
15:37:01 <olsner> alise: oh, ok... datalog seems to allow doing much more complicated and clever stuff than prolog, apparently
15:37:14 <alise> Vorpal: length(regex_replace(regex_replace(body,'fuck','\0'), '\0*', ''))
15:37:15 <alise> or something
15:37:25 <alise> olsner: yes, since it's sub-TC
15:37:36 <alise> olsner: but basically i want to ask questions about the lisp-facing api
15:38:08 <Vorpal> alise, anyway you easily win in number of times saying "fuck" it seems. With (body ilike 'fuck%' or body ilike ' fuck%') you get 551 lines? Seems low hm
15:38:41 <Vorpal> ilike for case insensitive
15:38:55 <alise> ARC NEWS: arc is still on version 3, exactly the same people still care
15:39:04 <alise> Vorpal: er, i got much more than that.
15:39:18 <alise> <alise> sqlite> select count(*) as n, replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"scarf","ais523"),"iEhird","alise"),"aliseiphone","alise"),"ehirdiphone","alise"),"alise`","alise"),"ehird`","alise"),"AnMaster","Vorpal"),"tusho","alise"),"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs where type = 0 and body like "%fuck%" group by nickx order by n desc limit 10;
15:39:18 <alise> <alise> 3806|alise
15:39:24 <alise> not much worse with your modification i'd wager
15:39:25 <Vorpal> oh wait
15:39:28 <Vorpal> I forgot a %
15:39:33 -!- zzo38 has joined.
15:39:33 <alise> Vorpal: can you try that regexp thing for me?
15:39:37 <alise> i dunno if \0 will escape properly
15:39:38 <alise> but worth a try
15:39:58 <Vorpal> alise, with (body ilike 'fuck%' or body ilike '% fuck%') you get 3092 lines of having said that work
15:40:00 <Vorpal> word*
15:40:04 <Vorpal> and hm
15:40:13 <alise> Vorpal: what went wrong the first time, then?
15:40:27 <Vorpal> alise, ' fuck%' != '% fuck%'
15:40:28 <Vorpal> :P
15:40:48 <Vorpal> alise, simply a typo in other words
15:40:56 <Vorpal> alise, anyway what regex?
15:41:14 <fizzie> Vorpal, alise: here's a fuck-counter in postgres:
15:41:15 <fizzie> fis=> select length(regexp_replace(regexp_replace('foofuck, bar fuck baz, fuck fuck and so on', 'fuck', E'\n', 'g'), E'[^\n]', '', 'g'));
15:41:15 <fizzie> length
15:41:15 <fizzie> --------
15:41:15 <fizzie> 4
15:41:25 <fizzie> Works for all strings with no embedded newlines, which is all IRC messages.
15:41:31 <Vorpal> hm
15:41:49 <fizzie> (Replaces all fucks with newlines, then all non-newline characters with nothing, then counts the string length.)
15:42:12 <fizzie> Possibly \0 would work too.
15:42:40 <fizzie> It needs the E'...' string for strings-with-escapes, though.
15:42:47 <alise> fizzie: Yeah, that's basically what I said.
15:43:00 <alise> You could do that in sqlite with an unholy nesting of 254 replaces.
15:43:05 <Vorpal> ERROR: column "logs.body" must appear in the GROUP BY clause or be used in an aggregate function
15:43:05 <Vorpal> LINE 5: length(regexp_replace(regexp_replace(body, 'fuck', E'...
15:43:05 <Vorpal> ^
15:43:06 <Vorpal> huh
15:43:10 <alise> And maybe embedded control characters.
15:43:14 <Vorpal> that's stupid
15:43:30 <alise> did you have body like fuck anywhere?
15:43:33 <alise> remove that obviously
15:43:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: Obviously sum() that if it's a group-by thing.
15:43:38 <Vorpal> hm
15:43:39 <alise> or that
15:43:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, ah yes
15:43:49 <alise> "as fucks"
15:43:58 <alise> sum(length(...)) as fucks, order by fucks...
15:44:28 <Vorpal> "query is running"...
15:44:33 <Vorpal> not a fast one
15:45:06 <Vorpal> hm first filtering on body ought to help
15:45:14 <Vorpal> hm that seems very wrong
15:45:24 <Vorpal> you have fewer "fuck" than number of lines with it
15:46:26 <Vorpal> alise, 3521 fucks, and 3806 lines with that in it. Something is off here
15:46:54 <alise> try replacing \bfuck\b
15:46:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, what does the E in front of those strings do?
15:46:59 <alise> otherwise "brainfuck" might weird it
15:47:01 <alise> Vorpal: escaped string
15:47:02 <alise> he said
15:47:11 <Vorpal> ah missed that
15:47:50 <Vorpal> alise, anyway I set it to do all such substrings, without regard to where in the string
15:48:07 <alise> which is the issue
15:48:09 <alise> since "brainfuck"
15:48:13 <Vorpal> and it still ends up as fewer occurrences of the word than number of lines
15:48:14 <alise> *because of "brainfuck"
15:48:28 <Vorpal> alise, yes but the line thing I compared to would include that too
15:48:38 <Vorpal> both would
15:48:43 <Vorpal> with current query
15:50:10 <Vorpal> actually 4098 lines vs. 3521 occurrences of the word
15:50:14 <Vorpal> something is definitely off
15:50:21 <alise> [[At Lulu's suggestion I have changed the rating to "teen" so it is now possible to search for and buy Prime Intellect when you are logged in at the default settings. I'm not sure whether it's the zombie sex or the incest scene which is most teen-oriented, but people have complained about the rating so if the publisher doesn't think it needs the shrink wrap, who am I to argue?]] --Roger Williams
15:50:37 <fizzie> Vorpal: like is case-insensitive, while the regex only counts completely lowercase fucks; that's one possible reason.
15:50:46 <Vorpal> aha
15:50:49 <alise> yeah put 'i' as the last argument?
15:50:49 <Vorpal> yeah
15:50:53 <alise> and make sure to use \bfuck\b
15:51:05 <fizzie> Yeah, changing the 'g' to 'gi' would help.
15:51:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, yep it did
15:51:34 <Vorpal> alise, is \b really posix regexp?
15:51:38 <Vorpal> thought it was pcre?
15:51:49 <alise> eh
15:51:50 <Vorpal> alise, and this thing is posix extended according to docs
15:51:52 <alise> (^| )
15:51:55 <alise> ( |$)
15:51:56 <alise> job done
15:52:08 <Vorpal> indeed
15:52:28 <zzo38> bind '"\eOR": " \C-ucd */\e*\n"'
15:52:52 <Vorpal> alise, you end up at 1336 then, probably due to excluding stuff like "fucking"
15:53:02 <fizzie> Vorpal: It's actually posix-extended with some non-POSIX additions, but I don't think \b is one of them. \y is "matches at the beginning or end of word", though you'd probably need \\y in a E'...'.
15:53:20 * Vorpal tries (^| )fuck(|ing|er|ed)( |$)
15:53:26 <alise> Vorpal: fuck(er|ed|wit|ing)?
15:53:34 <Vorpal> alise, will do in a sec
15:53:43 <Vorpal> with the one I just said: 2663
15:53:47 <alise> (mother|)fuck(|er|ed|wit|ing)
15:54:09 <alise> i guess by the carlin measuring post motherfucker != fucker
15:54:15 <Vorpal> alise, the last one: 2674
15:54:31 <Vorpal> soupdragon at 806 as number 2
15:54:36 <alise> hmm
15:54:41 <alise> i wonder what pushed pikhq off
15:54:47 <alise> pikhq fucks a lot. uhh... we need new terminology
15:54:48 <Vorpal> then followed by oklopol at 419, and pikhq at 408
15:54:54 <alise> Vorpal: elide (mother|)
15:54:56 <Vorpal> then me at 175 and augur at 120
15:55:23 <Vorpal> alise, right. lets see: same ordering in the top 6
15:55:48 <zzo38> At FreeGeek, I have an account there now. I managed to make a shell function to select the next subdirectory of the parent directory of the current directory, it uses a pipeline with 'pwd' and 'cat' and 'cd' and 'ls' and 'sed'
15:55:51 <Vorpal> I forgot what it was for the remaining of the top 10 compared to last query, and I'm running this in a GUI tool for easier editing
15:55:57 <Vorpal> (pgadmin3)
15:56:01 <Vorpal> (awesome tool)
15:56:09 <alise> "Can you feel yourself tripping ALL the balls??" "W-" "We're leaving no ball left untripped here, Dromiceiomimus." --Dinosaur Comics
15:56:59 -!- EOF has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:58:56 <alise> 06:34:19 <fizzie> Because there's one instance where there's just "* EgoBot" in the logfile.
15:59:00 <alise> the explanation
15:59:04 <alise> ah, i see how that works
15:59:10 <alise> ^AACTION^A
15:59:10 <alise> or
15:59:11 <alise> ^AACTION ^A
15:59:14 <alise> length 0, isn't it?
15:59:17 <alise> length 0 /me
15:59:34 -!- abcde has joined.
15:59:40 * abcde
15:59:44 * abcde
15:59:52 <alise> The latter was ^AACTION ^A.
15:59:58 <abcde> ^AACTION ^A
16:00:03 <abcde> More 0-length messages!
16:00:04 -!- abcde has changed nick to Guest92520.
16:00:10 <alise> I assume they appear as type=0.
16:00:11 -!- Guest92520 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:00:12 <alise> Perhaps not.
16:01:04 <Vorpal> ah created that view
16:01:11 <Vorpal> makes the whole thing a lot less horrible-looking
16:01:20 <Vorpal> moving all the replacing to the view
16:02:13 <Vorpal> the definition for the view is http://sprunge.us/BTdI (note: I didn't enter it like that, that is what I get back when asking postgres for the sql code for it!)
16:05:29 <Vorpal> of course that view is useless for nick changes
16:05:33 <Vorpal> but lets do some kick stats on it
16:07:08 <Vorpal> lament kicked most people, followed by oerjan and fizzie
16:07:29 <Vorpal> most often kicked was alise followed by dixon (who was that?)
16:07:43 <alise> dixon is Quadr*scence's trolling buddy
16:07:43 <Vorpal> alise was kicked 6 times
16:07:45 <alise> from the Day-Long Troll
16:08:13 <alise> OF YORE
16:08:18 <Vorpal> wait, dixon, asiebot, oklopol, Quadr* and bsmnt_bot share second place
16:08:27 <Vorpal> at 2 kicks each
16:08:30 <Vorpal> compared to your 6 times alise
16:08:36 <Vorpal> alise, I guess you are just hated :P
16:08:44 <alise> actually
16:08:46 <alise> most of those would be one of
16:08:52 <Vorpal> oh?
16:08:58 <alise> - when i asked to be kicked until i was kicked
16:09:03 <alise> (I have no idea why)
16:09:05 <alise> and possibly
16:09:08 <alise> - accidental floods
16:09:19 <alise> i don't think i've been kicked for actually being an awful person before
16:09:27 <alise> select the kick messages
16:10:08 <Vorpal> alise, you were kicked twice by lament, once by fizzie and three times by oerjan
16:10:22 <alise> Vorpal: select the messages if you can
16:10:37 <alise> two of the oerjan kicks were from yesterday if you've updated since then
16:10:40 <zzo38> What TeX format should I use for binary numbers in Enhanced CWEB?
16:10:41 <Vorpal> alise, well, I would need to select on timestamps around those kicks or such
16:10:49 <Vorpal> or do you mean kick message?
16:10:51 <alise> (when i tried to paste the unary '.', and then again when I forgot to /flushq before rejoining)
16:10:52 <alise> Vorpal: the latter, yes
16:10:56 <alise> zzo38: any.
16:11:42 <Vorpal> alise, http://sprunge.us/dDJd
16:11:52 <zzo38> alise: I know I could use any, but I meant one format that can be used specific for binary numbers, like how it formats octal and hexadecimal numbers in their special format, then what format should be used for binary numbers (0b00110110011)?
16:12:09 <alise> the two lament ones i asked for, i think
16:12:10 <alise> ehh
16:12:12 <alise> i'll just look i up
16:12:18 <alise> Vorpal: select tusho and ehird too :P
16:12:22 <Vorpal> alise, you have the UTC timestamp
16:12:30 <Vorpal> alise, that is logs_na, the nick normalised view
16:12:31 <alise> oh
16:12:33 <alise> i was thinking
16:12:35 <alise> i didn't use alise in 2008 :P
16:12:47 <Vorpal> alise, why would I create a view and not use it?
16:13:23 <Vorpal> alise, btw I found that sqlite is way faster when doing a full import of all the data, but way slower to do complex queries that have to scan the table (as opposed to using indexes)
16:13:38 <Vorpal> I think almost everything on logs_na require full table scan
16:13:38 <alise> 15:14:46 <Phenax> im too fucking badass to get kickbanned motherfuckas!
16:13:52 <alise> 15:15:34 <tusho> 15:24:49 <Phenax> one tyme my profesor did dat 2 and i was like holy shat i got like 4 routersa that are MIPS
16:13:52 <alise> 15:15:34 <tusho> 15:30:20 <Phenax> augur: im lookin fo sometin i can drink durin class i dun rly wanna pop any pills durin class
16:13:52 <alise> 15:15:35 <tusho> 15:30:26 <Phenax> campus securiy canna b liek waddat
16:13:52 <Vorpal> not sure if postgres supports materialised views
16:13:54 <alise> 15:15:35 <tusho> 15:34:30 <Phenax> randall is betta dan spinelli olol
16:14:39 <Vorpal> alise, what?
16:14:48 <alise> Vorpal: lines from that day
16:14:50 <Vorpal> ah
16:14:52 <alise> it appears this Phenax person was a little insane
16:14:59 <Vorpal> alise, "spinelli"?
16:15:01 <alise> some talk about a kickban of me, though, so it might have been the day before
16:15:04 <alise> Vorpal: who knows
16:15:54 <Vorpal> alise, hm the dates are normalised to UTC
16:16:03 <Vorpal> you need to correct for that, could cross log dates
16:16:13 <alise> yeah
16:16:18 <alise> see with botte...
16:16:31 <Vorpal> alise, well the thing is, if you use the db you don't need to
16:16:43 <Vorpal> you can just apply a timezone to the stuff
16:16:47 <alise> i know
16:16:50 <Vorpal> the issue is when going back to the clog text log files
16:17:00 <alise> 15:47:19 <AnMaster> "The GNU Compiler Collection. Includes C/C++, java compilers, pie+ssp extensions, Haj Ten Brugge runtime bounds checking" is about max lenght
16:17:03 <alise> what a hopeless description!
16:17:08 <Vorpal> alise, this is easier in postgres since the timestamps are of the type timestamp
16:17:13 <Vorpal> rather than just textual data
16:17:18 <alise> "Compilers. Includes some languages, flargle bop doogit, and asiudha4w98y."
16:17:35 <Vorpal> <alise> 15:47:19 <AnMaster> "The GNU Compiler Collection. Includes C/C++, java compilers, pie+ssp extensions, Haj Ten Brugge runtime bounds checking" is about max lenght <-- max length of what?
16:17:50 <alise> portage description field
16:17:51 <alise> i think
16:17:55 <Vorpal> ah could be
16:17:58 <alise> yeah
16:18:01 <Vorpal> what with the pie+ssp stuff
16:18:58 <alise> 15:49:07 --- mode: ChanServ set +o lament
16:18:58 <alise> 15:49:16 <lament> tusho: what's a good hostmask?
16:18:58 <alise> 15:49:22 <tusho> lament: for whom?
16:18:58 <alise> 15:49:38 <lament> *!*@ ?
16:19:05 <fizzie> Vorpal: sqlite can do time maths with the textual data (that's why I put it in there in that format); it can even assume UTC and convert it to local times for displaying. What it doesn't do is explicit timezone support, so you can't convert it into an arbitrary timezone within sqlite. (Again something you're supposed to do in the client app side.)
16:19:06 <alise> this is in 08.06.18 leading up to the kick
16:19:22 <alise> yeah then me and oklopol ask to be kickbanned
16:19:45 <alise> 15:51:26 <lament> okay
16:19:45 <alise> 15:51:30 --- mode: lament set +b *!*n=tusho@91.105.124.*
16:19:45 <alise> 15:51:31 --- quit: Slereah_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
16:19:45 <alise> 15:51:34 --- kick: tusho was kicked by lament (lament)
16:19:45 <alise> 15:51:37 <oklopol> :D
16:19:46 <alise> 15:51:46 <oklopol> was fun knowing him
16:19:48 <alise> 15:52:19 <augur> o.o;
16:19:50 <alise> 15:53:12 <oklopol> lament: i don't think he wanted a permanent ban :P
16:19:52 <alise> 15:53:43 <lament> well, we'll never know
16:19:54 <alise> 15:53:49 <lament> :D
16:19:56 <alise> Immediately after:
16:19:58 <alise> 15:54:16 <AnMaster> lament, please please unban it
16:20:00 <alise> UNBAN IT
16:20:07 <Vorpal> fizzie, postgres can do timezones, oh and it's timestamps take less space than the textual data of sqlite
16:20:24 <alise> gahahaha Phenax still isn't kicked by this point
16:20:33 <Vorpal> alise, how stupid I was, asking him to unban you
16:20:40 <alise> Unban it, you mean.
16:20:42 <fizzie> Vorpal: Sure, that was just a rationale for why they're in the format they are, and that sqlite can in fact do stuff with them.
16:20:56 <Vorpal> alise, I think you had previously claimed to be genderless or something silly like that
16:20:59 <Vorpal> a few days before or such
16:21:05 <alise> i don't think so
16:21:15 <Vorpal> could be wrong though
16:21:16 <alise> since augur immediately corrected you
16:21:20 <alise> 15:55:41 --- join: someguy (n=ehird@ joined #esoteric
16:21:20 <alise> 15:55:53 <someguy> you guys just banned my brother?
16:21:20 <alise> 15:55:58 <someguy> fucktards
16:21:20 <alise> 15:56:10 <oklopol> someguy: big/little brother?
16:21:20 <alise> 15:56:19 <someguy> oklopol: i'm like 23, I lose count
16:21:29 <Vorpal> alise, hm
16:21:34 <alise> so hard to keep track of your other personality's age
16:21:44 <alise> 15:56:28 <AnMaster> lament, you *could* have kickbanned Phenax
16:21:44 <alise> 15:56:43 <lament> AnMaster: that actually seems like a good idea.
16:22:05 <Vorpal> hm
16:22:14 <alise> Vorpal: 15:56:52 <AnMaster> http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/ 15:56:54 <AnMaster> HAHAHAHA 15:56:59 <AnMaster> at that language
16:22:17 <alise> you had no taste
16:22:29 <alise> well okay it's a nice esolang but not HAHAHAHA nice
16:22:41 <alise> 15:57:15 <oklopol> lament: yeah motherfucker unban him or i'll kill you and your kids
16:22:48 <alise> such support
16:22:49 <Vorpal> I think they redesigned the page
16:22:58 <Vorpal> I remember it as way more "low-tech"
16:23:08 <alise> 15:59:06 <someguy> lament: unban my brother would you
16:23:09 <alise> 15:59:14 <lament> someguy: why?
16:23:09 <alise> 15:59:21 <someguy> lament: because it's midnight, duh.
16:23:42 <Vorpal> alise, what was the logic for that
16:23:55 <alise> i have no idea
16:24:23 <alise> 16:08:36 <lament> you're all nuts
16:24:23 <alise> 16:08:42 <lament> that's my opinion
16:24:23 <alise> 16:08:51 <oklopol> am i nuts?
16:24:23 <alise> 16:08:55 <AnMaster> lament, "all"? you mean me too?
16:24:23 <alise> 16:09:00 <lament> No. You're all nuts except oklopol.
16:24:24 <alise> 16:09:01 <AnMaster> I'm not nuts!
16:24:26 <alise> 16:09:05 <AnMaster> !!
16:24:49 <alise> 16:09:29 <AnMaster> why would I be nuts?
16:24:49 <alise> 16:09:47 <Slereah> AnMaster : Becayse you're dangling between my legs.
16:24:49 <alise> 16:10:01 <AnMaster> Slereah, sod off
16:25:06 <Vorpal> mhm
16:25:17 <alise> (Epilogue of this little archaeological dig: <oklopol> lament: TAKE IT OFF!! <lament> um. Not in public.)
16:25:35 <alise> 16:12:19 <lament> tusho: here's a better idea
16:25:35 <alise> 16:12:21 --- mode: lament set +o tusho
16:25:35 <alise> 16:12:25 <tusho> AWESOME
16:25:35 <alise> 16:12:25 <lament> there, now you can ban yourself
16:25:35 <alise> 16:12:31 --- mode: tusho set -o lament
16:25:36 <alise> 16:12:32 --- mode: tusho set +b lament!*@*
16:25:38 <alise> 16:12:38 --- kick: lament was kicked by tusho (tusho)
16:25:41 <alise> Note to everyone: never give me +o. Ever.
16:25:47 <Vorpal> indeed
16:26:13 <alise> 16:13:17 <oklopol> lament's brother lameguy is gonna be so pissed.
16:26:18 <alise> this log is amazing
16:26:44 <alise> 16:17:01 <AnMaster> FREE UNBAN TO THE PUBLIC
16:26:44 <alise> 16:17:04 --- mode: tusho set +b AnMaster!*@*
16:28:33 <Vorpal> what
16:29:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, there?
16:29:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, did you see above wrt having to reimport the data again? (Due to not storing what modes changed in mode changes.)
16:30:00 <alise> Vorpal: you were asking for ops so you could spread a new regime of unbannedness to everyone
16:30:13 <alise> so i nipped the anti-communist western lies in the bud
16:30:34 <alise> 16:30:36 <lament> hm
16:30:34 <alise> 16:30:48 <lament> after last time, i think i learned not to trust you with ops
16:30:34 <alise> 16:30:59 --- mode: ChanServ set +o dasf
16:30:34 <alise> 16:31:00 <dasf> lament: i was posessed by demons last time
16:30:34 <alise> 16:31:09 <dasf> damn straight
16:30:38 -!- Flonk_ has joined.
16:31:33 <Vorpal> alise, who was dasf?
16:31:35 <alise> me
16:31:38 <Vorpal> mhm
16:31:51 <alise> i don't know why i got opped again, since i was developing a bot to keep giving me ops forever :)
16:32:12 <alise> 16:51:02 --- mode: tusho set +o ihope
16:32:13 <alise> 16:51:07 <ihope> Yay! :-)
16:32:13 <alise> 16:51:12 --- mode: ihope set -oo oppiebot tusho
16:32:17 -!- Flonk has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
16:32:18 <alise> Darn rebels.
16:32:20 -!- Flonk_ has changed nick to Flonk.
16:33:20 -!- jix has joined.
16:33:45 -!- jix has quit (Client Quit).
16:34:05 -!- jix has joined.
16:34:25 <Vorpal> alise, lets see how many times you have been banned hm
16:35:29 <alise> that "Nice try" was a request-ban too
16:35:34 <alise> of a sort
16:35:49 <alise> i asked for it then tried to change it into a coup when +o happened, but oerjan just ruthlessly killed me anyway
16:35:59 <alise> so basically only the second-last kick was for doing something bad (pasting a lot of "1"s)
16:36:06 <alise> the last one was when i forgot to /flushq before rejoining
16:36:13 <Vorpal> select * from logs where body like '+b%' and (body ilike '%ehird%' or body ilike '%tusho%' or body ilike '%alise%') and type = 9;
16:36:21 <Vorpal> 7 times
16:36:26 <alise> hee
16:36:39 <Vorpal> 2 by oerjan, one by fizzie and 4 by lament
16:36:52 <Vorpal> alise, that query won't work with the db you downloaded from fizzie yesterday btw
16:37:02 <Vorpal> alise, since it didn't properly parse mode changes
16:38:00 <Vorpal> alise, it isn't possible to actually take over a channel with services, unless someone give you the flags there, or you find out a password or such
16:38:01 * alise installs J
16:38:05 <alise> I need a ~/local.
16:38:10 <alise> actually, I wonder why people don't use ~/.local/.
16:38:15 <Vorpal> alise, cause a mess with +o yes, but takeover? no
16:38:18 <alise> Vorpal: i just relied on apathy
16:38:28 <alise> and it was for chaos, anyway
16:38:48 <Vorpal> alise, also I doubt oerjan killed you. He isn't an oper
16:38:57 <fizzie> In other news, I made a construction to convert an arbitrary Turing machine into sqlite3 triggers, and ran through it manually a 4-symbol 13-state machine that reverses a string.
16:38:58 <fizzie> Witness the elegance of it: http://p.zem.fi/sqlite-tm.sql
16:39:00 <Vorpal> kicked perhaps
16:39:18 <fizzie> The best way to reverse a string since sliced bread.
16:39:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, haha
16:39:44 <Vorpal> fizzie, does it work on any string length or just that length?
16:39:56 <alise> Vorpal: killed in the literalmetaphorical sense
16:40:14 <Vorpal> fizzie, could it reverse bcaa for example?
16:40:30 <Vorpal> alise, ah
16:40:30 <fizzie> Vorpal: Any string, though you'll probably hit the maximum trigger nesting depth (1000) pretty easily.
16:40:48 <alise> fizzie: So SQLite is turing-complete? Awesome!
16:40:50 <fizzie> Vorpal: (Also, the manual SELECT statements at the end only print the first six tape values.)
16:40:58 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Vorpal: Any string, though you'll probably hit the maximum trigger nesting depth (1000) pretty easily. <alise> fizzie: So SQLite is turing-complete? Awesome! <-- um
16:41:05 <alise> Vorpal: and Python has a nesting stack limit
16:41:10 <alise> doesn't mean the language itself isn't TC
16:41:14 <alise> in that way
16:41:15 <Vorpal> hm
16:41:46 <Vorpal> alise, actually I think it may have documented limits on upper size of db and such
16:41:57 <alise> implementation defects
16:41:58 <Vorpal> of course if that is specced or documented
16:42:03 <Vorpal> is a tricky question
16:42:16 <Vorpal> meh, grammar fail
16:42:52 <alise> Vorpal: why don't people use ~/.local?
16:42:55 <alise> as opposed to ~/lcoal
16:42:56 <alise> *local
16:43:01 <Vorpal> alise, for what?
16:43:06 <alise> Indeed I already have a ~/.local/share...
16:43:12 <fizzie> For some reason it actually worked without recursive_triggers enabled, but only for exactly 16 steps; don't know what's up with that.
16:43:13 <alise> Vorpal: for the unified-tree version of ~/bin etc.
16:43:23 <alise> ehird@dinky:~$ ls .local/share/
16:43:23 <alise> applications desktop-directories gvfs-metadata rhythmbox totem ubuntuone
16:43:23 <alise> desktop-couch Empathy pitivi tomboy Trash webkit
16:43:27 <alise> So there's precedent...
16:43:35 <Vorpal> alise, I use local for ~/local/llvm/2.7/{bin,lib} and so on
16:43:48 <Vorpal> stuff like that
16:44:02 <fizzie> (It also takes around six seconds to reverse "abc", so...)
16:44:07 <alise> yes, but that clutters ls ~
16:44:13 <alise> so why do I never see ~/.local?
16:44:16 <alise> apart from... just now
16:44:41 <Vorpal> alise, you never see it because presumably you don't use ls -a
16:44:59 <Vorpal> (or ls -A)
16:45:04 <alise> so?
16:45:08 <alise> uh
16:45:10 <alise> you totally misinterpreted
16:45:11 <alise> i mean
16:45:14 <alise> why do you never see people using it
16:45:16 <alise> as opposed to ~/local
16:45:16 <alise> ...
16:45:28 <Vorpal> alise, yes I know, I selected the literal interpretation :P
16:45:42 <alise> I hereby reask the question to fizzie.
16:45:58 <Vorpal> alise, and I don't have an answer to why it isn't used
16:46:29 <alise> Vorpal: what i mean is do you have any personal arguments against it
16:46:50 <fizzie> alise: I don't know; for .local in particular, ~/.local/share is already used by a big pile of applications for user-specific stuff. I keep a ls-visible ~/local/ myself too; I guess I somehow wouldn't want to "hide" something like that, but I don't really have a rational argument here.
16:47:19 <alise> I guess so.
16:47:27 <alise> It's just that I like to have ~ be non-system stuff, you know?
16:47:48 <pikhq> watasi no hôhầkurahuto ha unakì tè i'hąi tèsu.
16:47:50 <pikhq> >_>
16:48:00 <Vorpal> anyway if it isn't split in projects it would be rather irritating to upgrade anything with more than one or two files installed in there
16:48:33 <Vorpal> alise, ~/local is not system stuff, it's your own stuff
16:48:43 <Vorpal> as in, not done with package manager
16:48:56 <alise> it's still linux stuff
16:49:00 <alise> operating system stuff
16:49:17 <alise> i'm sure everyone else can understand the distinction
16:49:19 <Vorpal> nah it's user land, so maybe gnu/linux stuff :P
16:49:36 <Vorpal> and I know what you meant
16:49:47 <alise> pikhq: tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu tèsu
16:49:57 <pikhq> alise: "My hovercraft is full of eels".
16:49:59 <Vorpal> augh
16:50:09 <alise> My hovercraft is full of desu.
16:50:33 <alise> pikhq: Quick, translate "my cousin is a meerkat of strange angles".
16:50:52 <pikhq> That would be 私のホーバークラフトはですで一杯です。 (watashi no hōbākurafuto wa desu de ippai desu)
16:52:11 <alise> Uh oh; for QI to complete, Stephen Fry will have to continue hosting it until he's 72.
16:52:12 <pikhq> 私の従兄弟は変な角のミーアキャットです。
16:52:17 <alise> God I hope the man has dedication.
16:52:26 <alise> pikhq: Is that the meerkat one? I guess not.
16:52:34 <pikhq> "Watashi no itoko ha hen na kado no miiakyatto desu."
16:52:43 <alise> I guess so!
16:52:52 * alise tries to find the relevant clip
16:53:15 <alise> It doesn't help that I don't know even what series it's from.
16:53:16 <pikhq> (watasi no itoko ha henn na katò no mîakiȳa'to tèsu.)
16:53:39 <alise> aha
16:53:46 <alise> I think I know
16:53:55 * alise finds the bit
16:54:15 <alise> Load quicker, video!
16:55:34 <Vorpal> alise, QI?
16:56:05 <alise> Vorpal: a hilarious quiz show where all the questions have absolutely obvious and completely wrong answers, and points are usually awarded simply for being "quite interesting".
16:56:24 <alise> Penalties are "awarded", complete with flashing lights and a siren, for giving obvious answers.
16:56:24 <Vorpal> alise, what about the one about about your aunt? Another such common translation trope.
16:56:28 <alise> Hosted by Stephen Fry.
16:56:34 <alise> Usually the majority of scores end in the negatives. Especially Alan Davies'.
16:56:35 <fizzie> Well now, *that* is interesting-looking: behold the cumulative since-2004 activity in logscale: http://zem.fi/~fis/actl.png
16:56:36 <Vorpal> alise, ah.
16:56:50 <Vorpal> alise, and what is that about "complete"?
16:56:54 <alise> "My cousin is a meerkat of strange angles" is a quote from an episode that also has the hovercraft quote, so I'm trying to find it.
16:57:01 <alise> Vorpal: Each series covers topics starting with one letter.
16:57:05 <alise> Series A, B, C, etc.
16:57:13 <alise> One series per year, ergo...
16:57:19 <Vorpal> ah
16:57:22 <Vorpal> I see
16:57:28 <alise> We've just started season H.
16:57:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, wtf?
16:57:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, what's with the stripes
16:57:54 <pikhq> alise: I think you could make it sound completely awesome while describing exactly one bit. "Hosted by Stephen Fry".
16:58:22 <alise> pikhq: Think I've almost found the time...
16:58:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, or the blue parts that don't touch zero
16:58:30 <fizzie> Vorpal: Ask gnuplot, not me: all I did was "set logscale y". I guess filledcurves + zeros (-inf in logscale) don't really work so well.
16:58:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, haha
16:59:18 <fizzie> I do like how it's gone outside the graph borders, though.
16:59:20 <Vorpal> fizzie, try setting them to 0.000001 or such and see if it helps
16:59:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, I would suggest running valgrind on that thing, just in case
17:00:27 <fizzie> No errors from valgrind (despite a few "definitely lost" bytes); trying the non-zeroising now.
17:01:07 <fizzie> It does lines with zeros in them just fine in logscale (puts in vertical lines that go below the chart (but are clipped at the bottom) and then leaves gaps), but filledcurves, no so much.
17:01:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, and the non-zeroizing did not help?
17:01:34 <fizzie> Haven't tried yet.
17:01:46 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/actll.png is the same data but "with lines".
17:02:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, I suggest storing the crazy graph rather than overwriting it (maybe renaming it to actl-crazy.png or such
17:02:24 <alise> pikhq: http://vimeo.com/7868344; might as well start watching at 18:00. The actual exchange is at at 21:11, but it's out of context, so.
17:02:27 <alise> pikhq: I did all that work for you!
17:02:35 <alise> All for strangely-angled meerkats.
17:03:32 <pikhq> alise: Vimeo does not let you skip beyond where has been downloaded.
17:03:40 <alise> pikhq: Indeed. I suggest utilising the pause button.
17:03:43 <alise> It buffers quite quickly.
17:03:53 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yeah, it's about the zeros; http://zem.fi/~fis/actlf.png where zeros were replaced with 0.01 is a normal, boring sort of plot.
17:03:54 <alise> Or, just watch it all. :P
17:03:54 <pikhq> Which is what I'm doing.
17:03:56 <Vorpal> alise, on pikhq's connection?
17:04:03 <alise> Vorpal: he's in a metropolitan area now.
17:04:08 <pikhq> Vorpal: Reasonable broadband.
17:04:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, so what does it show?
17:04:14 <Vorpal> pikhq, ah nice
17:04:18 <alise> Better broadband than mine, I think.
17:05:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, is it number of lines but logarithmic?
17:05:27 <fizzie> Vorpal: Just the usual cumulative activity; the top shape is number of messages/month centered at that point of time. Since it's logscale, though, you can't really read the relative activity of different people, so the colors are a bit useless.
17:05:33 <pikhq> The point is, though: it doesn't suck.
17:05:54 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah those down near the bottom get most space
17:06:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, try inventing a plot that you can do as a 3D plot with colours to indicate a forth value on the surface
17:07:03 <Vorpal> need to be reasonably flat to be usable as a static image hm
17:07:19 <Vorpal> if there are dips it would be hard/impossible to see all
17:12:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, can you think of a query to check that timestamp always goes up when the serial does?
17:12:18 <Vorpal> to check for jump backwards
17:12:29 <Vorpal> jumps*
17:13:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, I can't think of one that does not involve procedural code
17:13:16 <Vorpal> though it would be easy with that
17:13:19 <fizzie> Oh, that should be doable; just a moment.
17:13:49 <fizzie> For the reference, I named my row-id column "idx"; you probably used something else.
17:14:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, I used serial
17:14:19 * alise starts reading Fine Structure
17:14:23 <alise> <Sgeo> Finally!
17:14:27 <alise> <pikhq> Finally!
17:15:33 <fizzie> Vorpal: Funny, my db does in fact have some backwards jumps.
17:15:47 <alise> I still can't decide where J should go!
17:15:49 <fizzie> Vorpal: select l1.idx, l1.tstamp, l2.idx, l2.tstamp from logs l1 join logs l2 on l2.idx = l1.idx+1 where l1.tstamp > l2.tstamp limit 10; -- just s/idx/serial/ and maybe remove the limit if you want them all.
17:15:56 <fizzie> 188904|2006-10-29 09:01:03|188905|2006-10-29 08:12:58
17:15:56 <fizzie> 1202220|2009-07-30 22:10:01|1202221|2009-07-30 22:09:40
17:15:59 <fizzie> I have those two, and more.
17:16:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is the query
17:16:05 <Vorpal> ah
17:16:07 <Vorpal> there it is
17:16:19 <Vorpal> fizzie, l2?
17:16:30 <fizzie> l1 and l2, just arbitrary names.
17:16:44 <fizzie> It just joins the logs table with itself on the condition that left.idx = right.idx+1.
17:17:32 <Vorpal> right
17:17:36 <fizzie> So it only checks all such pairs where serial1 = serial2+1, i.e. two successive rows.
17:17:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, assuming serial has no gaps that works
17:18:12 <fizzie> You could easily cross join logs with logs to check all pairs, but that'd involve N^2 lines in the intermediate join, which might be a bit problematic.
17:19:01 <Vorpal> hm
17:19:57 <Vorpal> fizzie, all the months looks like dst ones
17:20:19 <Vorpal> well almost
17:20:29 <Vorpal> the 2009-07-31 one looks strange
17:20:56 <Vorpal> but most are around oct/nov broder
17:20:58 <Vorpal> border*
17:21:07 <fizzie> There's a DST-looking backwards jump in http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/09.10.17 -- it might be that clog's clock and pytz's rules don't exactly agree on when the DST switch happens.
17:21:43 * Vorpal adds order by l1.serial
17:21:47 <fizzie> pytz ignores the manual "ooh, clock jumped back, handle this properly" logic if it thinks the time specified is not ambiguous, i.e. is outside that one hour when DST switching is legal.
17:22:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm
17:22:26 <fizzie> I guess it's even borderline possible that the clog machine's been switched from DST to non-DST manually at approximately the right time.
17:22:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, do you pass it the previous timestamp so it can compare? or?
17:23:03 <alise> ~/local/j64-602? ~/local/j64? ~/local/j? ~/.local/j64-602? ~/local/j64? ~/local/j? ~/j64-602? ~/j64?
17:23:13 <fizzie> For updatedb.py? Yes, it does notice if the clock jumps backwards in two messages.
17:23:36 <Vorpal> alise, ~/local/j64/602? assuming 64 is not version number
17:23:48 <Vorpal> if part of version number ~/local/j/64-602 might work
17:24:05 <alise> 64 signifies 64-bit
17:24:17 <alise> j32/j64, although on 32-bit i think it's just called j602
17:24:17 <fizzie> (Away for some light entertainment now; back in ... three hours? Maybe four. Something like that.)
17:26:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, a few of those look like they could be ntp step style adjustments
17:30:28 <alise> Vorpal: any other suggestions in light of that new knowledge? :P
17:30:46 <alise> j hasn't updated beyond 602 in... well, ages. i've never known it as anything other than 602
17:33:17 <Vorpal> alise, well, do you plan to install both versions side by side?
17:33:38 <alise> no.
17:33:54 <Vorpal> alise, and if no updates are to be expected I guess subdir for different versions wouldn't be needed. So ~/local/j might be fine
17:34:07 <alise> But it's so short!
17:34:15 <Vorpal> alise, isn't that an advantage?
17:34:34 <alise> Well, it just seems so wrong.
17:35:07 <Vorpal> alise, mhm then why not ~/local/languages/array/j/x86-64/602 :P
17:35:14 <alise> >_<
17:35:16 <alise> I just mean the /j/ part.
17:35:26 <Vorpal> alise, I know, I was joking....
17:36:49 <Vorpal> hm should start importing irc client logs
17:36:57 <Vorpal> same basic idea should work
17:37:45 <Vorpal> since most were logged in client rather than bouncer I think I need to somehow mask non-channel stuff that showed up in the same tab
17:38:36 <Vorpal> also hm, should probably not ignore logging started/ended stuff in clog apart at the start and end of the file
17:38:48 <Vorpal> would make spotting gaps due to malfunction easier
17:40:37 <Vorpal> oh hm
17:41:06 <zzo38> I found CINT could be used for C interpreter, but CINT is not C. CINT is C++ instead.
17:43:39 <zzo38> Although how PicoC works the parser has to wait for input sometimes, maybe I can work around
17:44:52 <Vorpal> fun I need some aug -> 08 mapping
17:46:51 <alise> | ?- assertz((path(X,Y):-edge(X,Y))).
17:46:51 <alise> yes
17:46:51 <alise> | ?- assertz((path(X,Y):-edge(X,Z),path(Z,Y))).
17:46:51 <alise> yes
17:46:51 <alise> | ?- assertz((edge(a,b))). assertz((edge(b,c))). assertz((edge(b,e))). assertz((edge(c,d))). assertz((edge(d,c))). assertz((edge(d,a))). assertz((edge(d,e))). assertz((edge(e,f))).
17:46:53 <alise> (lots of yeses)
17:46:55 <alise> | ?- path(a,f).
17:46:57 <alise> Fatal Error: local stack overflow (size: 8192 Kb, environment variable used: LOCALSZ)
17:46:59 <alise> Useless!
17:48:08 <Vorpal> and year is not on the lines hm
17:48:55 <alise> Even does it with a ! in the middle of that second path clause.
17:52:30 * Vorpal changes his date format for personal logs
17:52:43 <Vorpal> now I still need to parse the old hm
17:53:03 <alise> "Newton OS running on an iPad"
17:53:10 <alise> brb, buying an iPad.
17:53:39 <alise> Oh my god it can even run at the full iPad resolution.
17:54:10 <alise> Vorpal: Duude ^
17:55:04 <Vorpal> mhm
17:55:08 <alise> http://www.panic.com/blog/2010/09/newton-never-dies/
17:57:33 <Vorpal> alise, what does r in front of a python string mean? like r'foo'
17:58:18 <alise> no escaping
17:58:19 <alise> used for regexps
17:58:27 <alise> r'\n\(x' etc.
17:58:55 <Vorpal> ah
18:03:32 -!- trinithis has quit (Quit: Leaving).
18:04:56 <Vorpal> alise, python only seems to document {m,n} not {n}, does it not support the latter?
18:05:45 -!- trinithis has joined.
18:06:02 <alise> Vorpal: it probably does.
18:06:03 <alise> try it.
18:06:15 <Vorpal> yeah will shortly
18:06:49 * Vorpal wonders if "if y is not None" will work....
18:07:15 <Vorpal> huh seems so
18:08:08 <Vorpal> alise, wait, does it treat "is not" as one keyword but "not" as another?
18:08:21 <alise> Yes.
18:08:53 <alise> >>> not 1
18:08:53 <alise> False
18:08:53 <alise> >>> True is not 1
18:08:53 <alise> True
18:08:53 <alise> >>> True is (not 1)
18:08:54 <alise> False
18:09:02 <alise> I've only just realised how fucked up that is.
18:10:49 <trinithis> That's what she said!!!
18:11:01 <Vorpal> alise, you mean you never thought about this before?
18:12:03 <Vorpal> alise, it is like SQL. "foo not in (list, of, values)" doing the same thing as "not foo in (list, of, values)"
18:12:10 <Vorpal> and it's fucked up syntax with not
18:12:51 <Vorpal> also python's lack of switch, how did you index a dict now again
18:13:40 <Vorpal> ah standard syntax
18:14:05 <nooga> python is fucked up, period
18:14:34 <Vorpal> nooga, indeed but I already had code for doing almost what I wanted in it
18:14:42 <alise> trinithis: Die.
18:14:49 <alise> <Vorpal> also python's lack of switch, how did you index a dict now again
18:14:50 <alise> x[y]
18:14:55 <alise> or x.get(y, default)
18:14:57 <trinithis> alise: roll a 1 thru 6 please
18:15:00 <Vorpal> alise, hm
18:15:02 <alise> if/elseif/else is generally used though
18:15:05 <alise> rather than a dictionary of functions
18:15:14 <Vorpal> alise, well I need to look up value here
18:15:20 <Vorpal> a mapping from month name to number
18:16:10 <alise> Then yeah, a dictionary.
18:24:15 <fizzie> You could parse the timestamps with strptime, but that's probably not significantly less ugly than regex + manual mappings, and might have some locale-derived breakage.
18:25:59 -!- myndzi\ has joined.
18:26:05 <alise> Vorpal: also needs estoppel -> ehird
18:26:07 <alise> erm -> alise
18:26:09 <alise> i used that for a while
18:27:03 <Vorpal> mhm
18:27:33 <alise> sqlite> select count(*) as n, replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(replace(nick,"estoppel","alise"),"alise_","alise"),"scarf","ais523"),"iEhird","alise"),"aliseiphone","alise"),"ehirdiphone","alise"),"alise`","alise"),"ehird`","alise"),"AnMaster","Vorpal"),"tusho","alise"),"ehird","alise") as nickx from logs where type = 0 and body = "fuck" or body = "Fuck" or body="FUCK" or body="fuck!" or body="Fuck!" or body="FU
18:27:33 <alise> CK!" group by nickx order by n desc;
18:27:33 <alise> 45|alise
18:27:33 <alise> 20|oklopol
18:27:35 <alise> 5|lament
18:27:37 <alise> 4|Slereah_
18:27:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, and yes I have locale issues. Plus old ones have year in "begin logging" line but not on each line
18:28:22 <fizzie> I have a pile of logs that don't even have the day/month in timestamps, those are pretty horrible to handle. There's usually a "day changed" line at midnight, but still.
18:28:23 <Vorpal> fizzie, I now switched to an easier to parse format for the future.
18:28:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, I use a global current_year here
18:28:45 <Vorpal> new one has UTC offset at the end
18:29:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, and mine has day but not such day changed line.
18:29:24 <alise> sqlite> select avg(length(body)) from logs;
18:29:24 <alise> 40.8540693378636
18:29:27 <alise> In case you were wondering.
18:29:34 <alise> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
18:29:38 <alise> That is an average messages for us.
18:29:40 <pikhq> It continues to amaze me how freaking *retarded* voting machines are.
18:29:41 <alise> Seems a bit short, but oh well.
18:29:48 <Vorpal> fizzie, and I rotate monthly, or before that I rotated when the log dir started getting large
18:30:04 <Vorpal> at least all files begin with log started lines
18:30:10 <alise> Longest line evar was 471.
18:30:11 <fizzie> alise: You probably want to filter type=0 there.
18:30:13 <fizzie> sqlite> select avg(length(body)) from logs;
18:30:13 <fizzie> 40.8540693378636
18:30:13 <fizzie> sqlite> select avg(length(body)) from logs where type = 0;
18:30:13 <fizzie> 41.6410379994674
18:30:13 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
18:30:20 <alise> fizzie: Well, phooey.
18:30:36 <alise> sqlite> select max(length(body)), body from logs where length(body) = max(length(body));
18:30:36 <alise> Error: misuse of aggregate: max()
18:30:37 <fizzie> I think avg ignores nulls, though. But there's still quit messages and the like.
18:30:40 <alise> Well, fuck you!
18:30:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, I'm not sure how to handle year wraparound
18:30:48 <Vorpal> hm
18:30:58 <Vorpal> guess I could detect dec -> jan
18:31:23 <fizzie> alise: sqlite> select length(body), body from logs where length(body) = (select max(length(body)) from logs);
18:31:24 <fizzie> 471|Colorado Springs: A guy walked into a little corner store with a shot gun and demanded all the cash from the cash drawer. After the cashier put the cash in a bag, the robber saw a bottle of scotch that he wanted behind the counter on the shelf. He told the cashier to put it in the bag as well, but he refused and said "Because I don't believe you are over 21." The robber said he was, but the clerk still refused to give it to him because he didn't believe him
18:31:24 <fizzie> . At this
18:31:47 <alise> arke said that
18:31:48 <alise> god knows when
18:31:56 <alise> 2005
18:32:12 <alise> the only 471-long message, god bless 'im
18:32:52 <Vorpal> month = monthnum[m.group(1)]
18:32:52 <Vorpal> if month < prev_month: # New year
18:32:52 <Vorpal> current_year += 1
18:32:52 <Vorpal> prev_month = month
18:32:54 <Vorpal> XD
18:32:58 <fizzie> Hey, I have the second-longest message, 467 chars.
18:34:01 <alise> Can someone order-by-closeness-to-average-over-everyone?
18:34:07 <alise> i.e. who has the most average average line length?
18:34:28 <fizzie> Then one EgoBot, then *seven* fizzies, heh. (In the top-10 longest comments.)
18:34:43 <pikhq> fizzie: He definitely should've been carrying a 6-shooter instead.
18:34:48 <pikhq> (legal!)
18:36:52 <alise> The Most Unusual People:
18:36:56 <alise> 454.0|412.358962000533|fizzief
18:36:56 <alise> 325.5|283.858962000533|ElMexicano
18:36:56 <alise> 325.5|283.858962000533|Linuxiano
18:36:56 <alise> 325.0|283.358962000533|Yst
18:37:01 <alise> The latter is the difference between them and the average.
18:37:02 <alise> All higher...
18:37:18 <fizzie> alise: Top-5 averageness with a single statement:
18:37:19 <fizzie> sqlite> select nick, abs(avg(length(body))-(select avg(length(body)) from logs where type=0)) as k from logs where type=0 group by nick order by k asc limit 5;
18:37:19 <fizzie> alise_|0.0118991117972982
18:37:19 <fizzie> Xeanalyth|0.016037999467386
18:37:19 <fizzie> ehercd|0.0219903804197656
18:37:24 <alise> The averagest people:
18:37:29 <alise> 41.6529371112647|0.0118991117972982|alise_
18:37:29 <alise> 41.625|0.016037999467386|Xeanalyth
18:37:29 <alise> 41.6190476190476|0.0219903804197656|ehercd
18:37:29 <alise> 41.5585106382979|0.082527361169511|mib_vvzkm4
18:37:29 <alise> 41.54|0.101037999467387|osaunders
18:37:32 <alise> fizzie: Hey, thief. :|
18:37:49 <fizzie> Doing it first is not thievery. :p
18:37:52 <alise> TOTALLY IS
18:38:04 <alise> is ehercd me? I think he is.
18:38:11 <alise> I guess being the top speaker means I contribute a lot to the average.
18:38:22 <fizzie> 433847|2008-01-23 18:54:48|ehercd|||0|it's emacslicious!
18:38:23 <fizzie> 433848|2008-01-23 18:55:01|ehercd|||0|and perhaps a bit over the top, but hey, it'll beep for you..
18:38:23 <fizzie> 433849|2008-01-23 18:55:13|ehercd|||0|I wonder what would happen if i (dissociated-press)'d right now
18:38:26 <fizzie> That does sound like you.
18:38:55 <alise> yeah it's me mocking ERC
18:39:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, I now return (is_utc, (year, month, day), (hour, minute, second), restofline) from my parsedate function, which seems to work on some test cases
18:39:05 <Vorpal> now on to the rest
18:39:31 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
18:42:33 <fizzie> I have a pretty horrible set of regexps for irssi and bip logs.
18:43:35 <fizzie> http://p.zem.fi/tuks and so on.
18:44:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, I gave up on purely regexp here
18:44:15 <Vorpal> fizzie, and my logs are "xchat-style, but modified)
18:44:23 <Vorpal> s/)/"/
18:44:26 <fizzie> Anyway, away again.
18:44:29 <Vorpal> cya
18:58:19 <alise> ~/local is ugly because the rest of my dirs are sentence-case :<
19:05:16 -!- Arty has joined.
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19:06:24 -!- Arty has quit (Client Quit).
19:06:39 <benuphoenix> programming messups: int add(int in1, int in2){return in1+in2;}
19:06:52 -!- myndzi has joined.
19:06:59 <alise> benuphoenix: what a silly function
19:07:43 <benuphoenix> i almost put it on my java homework
19:09:09 <benuphoenix> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/184618/what-is-the-best-comment-in-source-code-you-have-ever-encountered
19:10:49 -!- myndzi\ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
19:14:20 -!- augur has joined.
19:19:47 <quintopia> who is Graue?
19:20:02 <alise> God.
19:20:54 <quintopia> oh okay, then i might as well treat him like that other guy who had delusions of godhood 6000 years ago
19:21:00 * quintopia kills Graue and takes his place
19:21:29 <alise> he also administrates the esolangs server and wiki.
19:23:04 -!- Vorpal has set topic: Welcome to #esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment | logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
19:23:10 <Vorpal> (just a test for log parsing)
19:23:18 <quintopia> But there's no way that the Linear-Bounded Automaton complexity class cannot be approved. Already like half the languages on the list claim to be in that class. I have no idea why it does not appear already.
19:24:02 <benuphoenix> Vorpal: is your nick a reference to the Jabberwocky?
19:26:41 -!- calamari- has joined.
19:27:56 <quintopia> benuphoenix: As far as I know, Carroll invented that word, so every use is a reference to Jabberwocky, whether direct or not.
19:29:00 <pikhq> quintopia: Indeed.
19:29:11 <pikhq> Incidentally, the vorpal sword went snicker-snack.
19:30:07 <quintopia> only in the english
19:31:30 -!- calamari- has quit (Client Quit).
19:32:12 <alise> http://code.technically.us/post/1109586140/exchange-remote-wipe-is-a-terrible-terrible-bug Connect to exchange server on a mobile --> now your administrators can wipe your device
19:32:19 <alise> That's certainly an esoteric feature.
19:32:51 <alise> <quintopia> But there's no way that the Linear-Bounded Automaton complexity class cannot be approved. Already like half the languages on the list claim to be in that class. I have no idea why it does not appear already.
19:32:54 <alise> well, for a start, that's the wrong name :)
19:33:50 <alise> it'd be [[Category:Linear-bounded automaton]]
19:34:04 <quintopia> stop being pedantic
19:34:08 <quintopia> for one second
19:34:21 <alise> i'm stopping you getting killed by Graue.
19:35:24 <quintopia> I created a category without asking earlier this year. I didn't get killed and it's still there. He can't be as mean as you say.
19:35:38 <alise> he's inactive. just you wait
19:35:49 <alise> besides, that violates the policies regardless, so ais523 will probably delete it if he notices
19:36:06 <alise> quintopia: here is what happened the last time someone created a category and Graue noticed: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Stux#Incident
19:36:39 <alise> that's for the year categories. which are now used.
19:37:18 <quintopia> alise: he did notice, told me off, and left them there. i think.\
19:37:31 <Vorpal> gah my log format is ambiguous
19:37:50 <Vorpal> <benuphoenix> Vorpal: is your nick a reference to the Jabberwocky? <- yes, and nethack
19:40:45 * quintopia just read the incident.
19:41:07 <quintopia> I agree with Stux. Graue looks like a douche here.
19:41:15 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro.
19:41:20 -!- coppro has quit (Changing host).
19:41:20 -!- coppro has joined.
19:41:30 <alise> quintopia: yes. his reaction was... over-the-top.
19:41:37 <alise> nonetheless, that's how strong the tradition is.
19:45:56 <quintopia> well, this time i followed procedure. how long will it takes?
19:49:50 <alise> probably forever
19:52:25 <alise> blergh @ java font rendering
20:01:21 <alise> error in: jijs demos button
20:01:21 <alise>
20:01:25 <alise> could not locate dll GL: find dll
20:01:35 <alise> ('could not locate dll ',y) 13!:8]24
20:01:36 <alise> Thanks, J.
20:01:41 <alise> Real helpful.
20:03:36 <alise> (The answer is "install mesa development libraries".)
20:04:49 <alise> And yet OpenGL isn't even supported on J64, so it's pointless.
20:04:52 <alise> But you need to anyway.
20:05:37 <olsner> haha
20:06:31 <alise> More fancy-graphical-esque REPL types should just be web-based. That is, run on a local port.
20:07:02 <alise> Also it would be *really* nice if there was a way to refer to something like http://localhost:python/ rather than http://localhost:894357345/
20:08:35 <Vorpal> alise, could you please send a notice to the channel? For regexp finding purposes. It seems to show different ones for myself and other people
20:09:41 -!- Leonidas has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
20:09:45 <Vorpal> meh... anyone else?
20:09:55 <alise> was mine not good enough?
20:10:19 <Vorpal> alise, I didn't get any ^_^
20:10:31 <Vorpal> alise, huh, I found the error, can you retry please
20:10:43 <Vorpal> thanks
20:11:47 -!- Leonidas has joined.
20:21:07 <benuphoenix> I typed "/notice I have no idea what I am doing". What did I just do?
20:22:11 <benuphoenix> I kinda need to know so I can defend myself
20:27:57 <olsner> such information will be disclosed on a need-to-know basis, not kinda-need-to-know :)
20:31:25 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit).
20:32:27 <fizzie> You most likely would have sent a notice to Mr I, but there seems to be no such person in freenode at the moment.
20:32:44 <fizzie> (Do they even allow one-letter names here?)
20:33:36 <fizzie> "Nick/channel is temporarily unavailable" -- maybe not, then.
20:34:37 <FireFly> alise, there's a command-line interface for J btw
20:34:37 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
20:35:33 <alise> FireFly: yeah but meh.
20:35:42 -!- wareya has joined.
20:35:44 <FireFly> I prefer it, at least
20:35:45 <alise> <fizzie> (Do they even allow one-letter names here?)
20:35:46 <alise> sort of.
20:36:53 <fizzie> QuakeNet's services have one-letter names; there's at least Q, R and S, maybe O too (I forget).
20:40:27 <FireFly> There was also an L before
20:43:58 <fizzie> alise: Here's a you-related statistic: http://p.zem.fi/48tk
20:44:04 -!- trinithis has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
20:44:14 <alise> fizzie: you need iEhird in there too :P
20:44:50 <alise> also, my goal is to one day break the 0.5 barrier
20:44:52 <alise> then 0.6
20:44:54 <alise> and then leave
20:44:55 <alise> forever
20:44:58 <alise> destroying the channel
20:45:10 <fizzie> Oh, I was assuming you'd go to something that's strictly greater than one, then leave.
20:47:17 <alise> wat
20:47:38 <fizzie> Well, you know, it's best to have some serious challenge in your goals.
20:52:52 -!- Vorpal has changed nick to Vorpal_.
20:52:53 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal.
20:53:01 <Vorpal> there, fixed the ambig in new logs
20:53:16 <fizzie> alise: Did you know you've written 15298175 bytes of messages here so far? With the usual "one megabyte per book" rule-of-thumb (and that's a *big* book; the h2g2 books are ~300k), you could already publish a 15-volume alisopedia.
20:53:16 <Vorpal> fizzie, to parse my logs I need to switch to a new mode in the middle
20:53:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, as in, a completely different set of regexp
20:57:55 <alise> fizzie: sweet
20:58:12 <alise> fizzie: I'm gonna actually do that
20:58:14 <alise> with lulu!
20:58:18 <alise> first person to buy it gets laughter
20:58:45 -!- Vorpal has changed nick to Vorpal_.
20:58:46 -!- Vorpal_ has changed nick to Vorpal.
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21:08:38 <fizzie> Also, here's where (some of) you people are: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap.png
21:09:10 <fizzie> If you object to your neighbours, just remember: math doesn't lie.
21:12:44 <olsner> what's that a map of?
21:13:08 <nooga> map of what
21:13:47 <olsner> nooga: yeah, must be
21:14:24 <fizzie> It's 32 different vaguely writing-style related features (I can provide a list) computed for all clog'd messages since 2004 for the people in the map; then the two first PCA components plotted as xy-scatterplot.
21:14:58 <olsner> ok, what does that mean? :)
21:15:23 <fizzie> It doesn't really mean much. Besides, I see now that I've used a completely silly feature set; let's redraw a new map.
21:18:21 <fizzie> The default feature spec string seems to be really really boring: it's just a 25-item histogram of word lengths, then word length mean/variance, words per phrase mean/variance, phrases per message mean/variance and frequency of numerics. Even though the script does type/token counts and wordnet wordclass guesstimates and sort-of pronoun group frequencies and all.
21:24:15 <nooga> FFT, equalize
21:24:26 <nooga> save as wav and release a record
21:24:28 <nooga> tadaaa
21:24:36 <nooga> you're experimentam musician
21:25:14 <Vorpal> fizzie, I don't think it is realistic to parse my irc logs before today, since while I could tell apart actions and parts and so on on screen due to colour, it was impossible in log file
21:25:17 <Vorpal> fixed now anyway
21:25:59 <nooga> experimental
21:29:49 <fizzie> Replotted that esomap with a more sensible settings.
21:30:01 -!- LeeWi_ has joined.
21:30:15 <fizzie> What, .fi *again*?
21:31:23 <LeeWi_> SRY! -.-
21:31:30 -!- LeeWi_ has left (?).
21:31:38 <fizzie> Heh, I scared someone off.
21:32:01 <fizzie> I wonder if I should, you know, /msg after or something.
21:32:22 <fizzie> I was just writing a "no, no, it's fine, it just makes me wonder" reply when he jumped ship.
21:38:49 <nooga> msg
21:39:30 <nooga> codzilla
21:49:16 <fizzie> Gah, octave's plotting functions are horreeble, even comparing to MATLAB, which is no picnic either.
21:59:07 <Vorpal> whowas LeeWi_
21:59:09 <Vorpal> err
21:59:10 <Vorpal> fail
22:00:51 <fizzie> I told em in a privmsg that I didn't actually mean e couldn't be here, but it didn't seem to help. Oh well.
22:00:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:01:11 -!- augur has joined.
22:06:55 <fizzie> Wow, that's a remarkably horrible plot: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap-comp.png
22:08:40 <olsner> I should start spewing more garbage so I get included in stats like these
22:08:53 <Vorpal> random log quote: "* tusho Swhacks himself for being a naughty pirate."
22:08:55 <Vorpal> alise, ^
22:09:24 <Vorpal> <fizzie> Wow, that's a remarkably horrible plot: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap-comp.png <-- what does it show?
22:09:27 <fizzie> olsner: If I keep adding more people in that plot, it's going to be... uh, I can't say "unreadable", because it already is, but... "unreadabler?"
22:09:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, besides being truncated at the side
22:09:48 <fizzie> Vorpal: Some of the (potentially more interesting) raw components used for esomap.png
22:09:59 <fizzie> Vorpal: You can guess most of the truncated bits, though.
22:10:08 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is the esomap thingy
22:10:11 <Vorpal> looks cool
22:10:13 <Vorpal> but what is it
22:10:39 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap.png -- "It's 32 [actually 60] different vaguely writing-style related features (I can provide a list) computed for all clog'd messages since 2004 for the people in the map; then the two first PCA components plotted as xy-scatterplot."
22:10:52 <fizzie> (I said that a few lines up there.)
22:11:00 <Vorpal> fizzie, PCA?
22:11:20 <fizzie> Principal Component Analysis.
22:11:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, also I can't guess at what "artion frequency" is, nor what "cy (she+her+hers+herself)" is
22:11:57 <Vorpal> s/art/at/
22:12:02 <fizzie> It basically finds the directions of largest variances for multidimensional data.
22:12:09 <Vorpal> also "ses per paragraph"?
22:12:27 <fizzie> "ation frequency" -> "punctuation frequency"; it's part of the same set as the one under it, which does show more of it.
22:12:35 <Vorpal> ah
22:12:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, and what is the number at the end of each line
22:12:49 <fizzie> "cy (word1+word2+word3)" -> "something something group of words frequency (word1+word2+word3)"
22:13:08 <fizzie> Those are the actual numeric values at start and end.
22:13:18 <Vorpal> ah
22:13:21 <Vorpal> and the ses?
22:13:41 <fizzie> I tried to do it with a 16-part subplot, but it kept putting space everywhere and titles wherever, so I had to put them all in the same X axis; it's "physically" plotted for the [0, 1] range.
22:14:00 <fizzie> That's "phrases per paragraph"; it's a sort-of logical continuation to "chars per word" + "words per phrase".
22:14:09 <Vorpal> huh
22:14:20 <fizzie> "paragraph" here means "message" in this context.
22:14:38 <fizzie> Oh, and the numeric values are probably normalized somehow, don't recall exactly how.
22:14:40 <Vorpal> fizzie, what tool do you use for these
22:15:01 <fizzie> A really messy Perl thing I/we wrote for a previous course on natural language processing.
22:15:08 <Vorpal> and those "PCA components", which ones are those?
22:15:12 -!- Sgeo has joined.
22:15:24 <Vorpal> fizzie, as in: I have no clue what "Principal Component Analysis" means
22:15:29 <Sgeo> Updating Flash makes a real difference to the browser's stability
22:15:36 <fizzie> <fizzie> It basically finds the directions of largest variances for multidimensional data.
22:15:37 <Sgeo> I think I _can_ survive on Puppy for a while
22:15:40 <fizzie> That's sort of what it is.
22:15:46 <Sgeo> If I had to
22:16:06 <fizzie> There's an illustrative plot in two dimensions at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GaussianScatterPCA.png
22:16:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, pretty
22:16:28 <fizzie> (The arrows there are the two principal components.)
22:16:42 <Vorpal> fizzie, are the components always orthogonal?
22:16:51 <alise> <Vorpal> random log quote: "* tusho Swhacks himself for being a naughty pirate."
22:16:52 <alise> <Vorpal> alise, ^
22:17:01 <alise> I'll give you whatever you want, just don't tell the tabloids!
22:17:07 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, IIRC it builds an orthogonal basis always.
22:17:09 <Vorpal> alise, XD
22:17:36 <fizzie> "PCA is mathematically defined[2] as an orthogonal linear transformation that transforms the data to a new coordinate system such that the greatest variance by any projection of the data comes to lie on the first coordinate (called the first principal component), the second greatest variance on the second coordinate, and so on. PCA is theoretically the optimum transform for given data in least square terms." That's very succinctly put, quoted from wikipedia.
22:17:55 <Vorpal> fizzie, so that means that the last axis will always be fixed to be orthogonal against the other ones. But I don't see how you can go from 64 dimensions to 2
22:18:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, 2 <-> 2 is easy
22:18:12 <alise> 05:43:13 <tusho> Hmm. I haven't bought any albums, recently, apart from this one.
22:18:12 <alise> 05:43:19 * tusho Swhacks himself for being a naughty pirate.
22:18:12 <alise> 05:43:23 * tusho denies that Swhack.
22:18:12 <alise> 05:43:30 <tusho> (/me checks download status...)
22:18:12 <fizzie> Oh, I just only plotted the first two ones; those are, after all, where the largest variance is.
22:18:16 <alise> *EXPOSED
22:18:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, ah
22:18:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, these axis could be somewhere between the original ones I presume?
22:19:10 <fizzie> Sure, otherwise it'd be just "find variance for each component, select max".
22:19:19 <olsner> swhick-swhack
22:19:21 <alise> 05:59:16 <ais523> and this mouse is very crappy, I suspect it's made of cardboard but am not sure
22:19:45 <Vorpal> alise, huh? I didn't check the context, it was a purely random selection from actions said by you
22:19:52 <alise> Vorpal: I know
22:19:55 <alise> I was joking.
22:19:59 <Vorpal> ah
22:20:07 <alise> Assuming you realise what the standalone message sounded like without context.
22:20:15 <Vorpal> alise, yeah after I pasted it :P
22:20:22 <Vorpal> alise, but before you responded
22:21:05 <Vorpal> fizzie, fancy stuff, you need to make an n-dimensional explorer for it! Hm didn't glfunge do that kind of?
22:21:16 <Vorpal> for funge-space
22:21:19 <Vorpal> or was that some other one
22:21:40 <fizzie> It was on the todo list, but I don't think I got very far. Some other one might've done it better.
22:22:19 <Vorpal> that non-compliant bequnge or whatever iirc did it
22:22:23 <fizzie> What I should do is to randomly divide those per-person datasets into N parts and compute the features separately for each one, then you'd get to see a bit how much intra-person variance there is.
22:23:13 <Sgeo> .
22:23:19 <alise> Vorpal: I have formulated two SQL queries to generate micro-arguments.
22:23:20 <alise> Behold:
22:23:22 <alise> sqlite> select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "ehird%" or nick like "tusho%" or nick like "alise%") and (body like "AnMaster:%" or body like "Vorpal:%") order by random() limit 1;
22:23:23 <alise> sqlite> select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "AnMaster%" or nick like "Vorpal%") and (body like "ehird%," or body like "tusho%," or body like "alise%,") order by random() limit 1;
22:23:24 <Sgeo> I love xlock
22:23:33 <alise> Read results after one another.
22:23:33 <Vorpal> alise, hah
22:23:35 <alise> Sgeo: slock is far superior
22:23:37 <alise> :>P
22:23:39 <alise> *:P
22:23:44 <Sgeo> slock?
22:23:52 <fizzie> Sgeo: Oh, you're here; re Turing-completeness of sqlite/triggers, see http://p.zem.fi/sqlite-tm.sql
22:23:54 <alise> http://tools.suckless.org/slock
22:24:11 <alise> Vorpal:
22:24:13 <alise> sqlite> select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "ehird%" or nick like "tusho%" or nick like "alise%") and (body like "AnMaster:%" or body like "Vorpal:%") order by random() limit 1; select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "AnMaster%" or nick like "Vorpal%") and (body like "ehird%," or body like "tusho%," or body like "alise%,") order by random() limit 1;
22:24:14 <alise> as a single command
22:24:15 <Vorpal> alise, what is the word for "not realistic setting in historical work" now again
22:24:20 <Vorpal> I forgot it
22:24:25 <alise> Vorpal: oh wait i got something wrong
22:24:29 <alise> Vorpal: err "fictionalised"?
22:24:33 <alise> i'm not sure what you mean
22:24:38 <Sgeo> What happens if someone sees an xlock-ed or slock-ed screen and just presses Ctrl-Alt-Backspace?
22:24:46 <alise> Vorpal:
22:24:48 <alise> sqlite> select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "ehird%" or nick like "tusho%" or nick like "alise%") and (body like "AnMaster:%" or body like "Vorpal:%") order by random() limit 1; select nick, body from logs where type="0" and (nick like "AnMaster%" or nick like "Vorpal%") and (body like "ehird%,%" or body like "tusho%,%" or body like "alise%,%") order by random() limit 1;
22:24:56 <Vorpal> alise, no, as in clothes from wrong period in a holy wood movie taking place in 1400 century
22:24:59 <alise> Sgeo: seeing an slocked screen == seing nothing :P
22:25:02 <alise> Vorpal: anachronism
22:25:04 <Vorpal> alise, right
22:25:07 <alise> anachronistic, etc.
22:25:10 <alise> thus anacron
22:25:14 <alise> the daemon
22:25:19 <Vorpal> alise, mixing ehird and vorpal in an argument is anachronistic
22:25:21 <alise> ehird|AnMaster: not the same thing
22:25:21 <alise> AnMaster|alise, terminal edition? I want F24!
22:25:22 <Vorpal> that was what I wanted to say
22:25:35 <alise> it seems to always show as ehird/AnMaster
22:25:37 <alise> not sure why yet
22:25:47 <alise> ehird|AnMaster: if you want to use GUI subversion on OS X, http://versionsapp.com/ seems the most popualr way.
22:25:47 <alise> AnMaster|ehird, see the "unauthicated" at the top?
22:25:51 <Sgeo> And arbitrary turing machines can be constructed in this fashion?
22:25:55 <alise> ehird|AnMaster: you're using the closed source virtualbox right
22:25:55 <alise> AnMaster|ehird, why?
22:26:07 <Vorpal> alise, probably most common
22:26:14 <Vorpal> AssertionError: invalid log body: 471
22:26:16 <Vorpal> interesting
22:26:18 <fizzie> Sgeo: I'm pretty confident they can, though I haven't algorithmized the construction yet.
22:26:20 <Vorpal> from importing own logs
22:26:22 <alise> Vorpal: i would have expected one alise or tusho by now, though
22:26:32 <Sgeo> fizzie: You're awesome
22:26:34 <alise> ehird|AnMaster: Does bzr work on Windows?
22:26:34 <alise> Vorpal|alise, while I'm pretty sure it mentions - should work. Like it does for cat and so on
22:26:50 <alise> http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap-comp.png ;; so who wins eh
22:27:08 <alise> also, are people at opposite ends most-unalike for that?
22:27:20 <Vorpal> hm
22:27:41 <alise> oh, alise finally
22:27:45 <alise> alise|AnMaster: GHC doesn't take much RAM to compile. I don't _want_ OpenOffice.
22:27:45 <alise> AnMaster|ehird, I have seen enough of the file format
22:27:46 <fizzie> alise: Yes, though the actual numeric values that it shows at both ends seem to have been normalized a bit.
22:28:10 <alise> Vorpal: Ha, the first actually-coherent argument:
22:28:12 <alise> tusho|AnMaster: the second sentence is irrelevant
22:28:12 <alise> AnMaster|tusho, you wouldn't have said that if I pointed out the error :P
22:28:31 <alise> ehird|AnMaster: that's as may be.
22:28:31 <alise> AnMaster|ehird, CRT? where?
22:28:40 <alise> randomised #esoteric would make a great automatically generated comic strip
22:28:48 <Sgeo> It's incredible how rarely I use descriptive adjectives
22:29:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm, those components, how do you get "verbs"? Do you use a dict? What about made up words then
22:29:34 <alise> Vorpal: does "not like" work in SQL?
22:29:53 <Vorpal> alise, try it and see
22:29:56 <alise> :P
22:30:01 <alise> i don't need it actually, just realised
22:30:27 <alise> Q: why?
22:30:28 <alise> A: i think i might make an evolutionary AI for blahbot`
22:30:56 <Vorpal> * ehird considers gobolinux+etoile
22:31:00 <Vorpal> alise, what was etoile?
22:31:13 <alise> http://etoileos.com/
22:31:19 <alise> they're basically taking GNUStep + Smalltalk
22:31:22 <fizzie> Vorpal: The word classes are very much guesswork. For each word, it takes all wordnet's senses that have frequency counts, selects the most frequent one, and classifies as that. It completely fails to take context into account, e.g. "red" is always an adjective, not a noun, since wordnet count for red (adj) is 43, for red (noun) 9.
22:31:26 <Vorpal> "* oerjan hits himself ===\___/"
22:31:27 <Vorpal> hm
22:31:29 <alise> and developing it into something pretty awesome
22:31:31 <Vorpal> I wonder what he did
22:31:50 <fizzie> Vorpal: There's a pile of context-considering word-class disambiguators, but they all take a horrible amount of time to run.
22:31:51 <Sgeo> What's this about Smalltalk?
22:31:53 * Sgeo insanes
22:31:56 <alise> Sgeo: No Smalltalk.
22:32:01 <alise> It's actually based on... C++.
22:32:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, red as noun?
22:32:12 <Sgeo> <alise> they're basically taking GNUStep + Smalltalk
22:32:14 <alise> And... and... PHP.
22:32:18 <alise> Sgeo: I was lying.
22:32:20 <alise> Joke. Ha ha!
22:32:21 <Sgeo> You're just trying to scare me
22:32:22 <Vorpal> oh yeah the name of the colour
22:32:26 <alise> Hilarious, yes.
22:32:29 <alise> NO SMALLTALK THER.
22:32:31 <alise> *THERE
22:32:32 <alise> AT ALL
22:32:33 <nooga> GNUStep HEH
22:32:35 <fizzie> Vorpal: 1. (9) red, redness -- (red color or pigment; the chromatic color resembling the hue of blood)
22:32:42 <Vorpal> right
22:32:42 <nooga> GNUStep vs Apple's stuff
22:32:46 <alise> nooga: gnustep is shit but etoile are doing a surprising job at making it awesome
22:32:49 <alise> (they're not trying to clone OS X)
22:32:55 <nooga> yeah i know
22:32:59 <nooga> etoile looks promising
22:33:02 <Sgeo> The webpage has code that looks very Smalltalk-y
22:33:07 <alise> Sgeo: nope it's C++
22:33:14 <nooga> but i think it's too early to assess it
22:33:47 <Sgeo> You don't actually think I believe you right now, do you?
22:33:49 <Vorpal> fizzie, anyway parsing my own logs turn out to be hugely complicated
22:33:51 <Vorpal> :/
22:34:02 <alise> Sgeo: I'm just hoping.
22:34:08 <alise> Vorpal: just use a heuristic for joins/parts
22:34:10 <alise> no biggie
22:34:20 <alise> "It is a port of the GoboLinux tools to Cygwin, allowing them to be used on top of Windows." But... why?
22:34:36 <Vorpal> alise, "* alise action" "* Topic for #esoteric is"
22:34:40 <Vorpal> alise, and so on
22:34:41 <alise> Vorpal: indeed
22:34:42 <Vorpal> I fixed this now
22:34:45 <Vorpal> but yeah it's a PITA
22:34:46 <alise> Vorpal: assume that nobody called Topic has ever been in
22:34:47 <alise> or at least
22:34:49 <alise> just use this for topics
22:34:56 <alise> /\* Topic for #esoteric is /
22:35:04 <alise> if it gets some false shit in, meh, who cares
22:35:06 <Vorpal> alise, it will misclassify a lot. "* [alise] blah blah" is a whois result
22:35:10 <alise> Vorpal: so?
22:35:13 <alise> i've never been called [alise]
22:35:18 <Vorpal> indeed
22:35:20 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to [Sgeo].
22:35:20 <alise> so just filter out all [foo]s
22:35:25 <Vorpal> it is valid though
22:35:26 <Vorpal> in nicks
22:35:28 <alise> yes
22:35:28 * [Sgeo] screws with stuff
22:35:31 <alise> but it's old stuff
22:35:35 <Vorpal> alise, anyway I made actions use * and non-actions use + from now on
22:35:41 <alise> so just parse the old stuff, re-save them and fix errors when you come across them
22:35:45 <alise> i.e. convert to new format with a heuristic
22:35:49 <Vorpal> alise, oh and /exec without -o went to log without the timestamp
22:35:58 <Vorpal> but some other stuff also lacks timestamp
22:35:59 <Vorpal> and so on
22:36:37 <[Sgeo]> AFK
22:36:43 <[Sgeo]> Eating half of dinner at the pizza place
22:36:49 <Vorpal> alise, and what I'm doing currently is writing those heuristics :P Which is hugely complicated
22:37:11 <Vorpal> * [Sgeo] screws with stuff <-- it won't mess up stuff any more :P
22:40:34 <Vorpal> alise, "<ehird> I should become the U.S. archivist."
22:42:52 <alise> Naturally.
22:43:34 <[Sgeo]> .
22:43:42 <[Sgeo]> AFK
22:43:58 <nooga> farfetched
22:45:42 <Vorpal> * oerjan doesn't think people would be happy if he started using #esoteric for backup
22:45:45 <Vorpal> I wonder how that would work
22:46:01 <Vorpal> * oerjan suddenly has an idea for an #esoteric slogan <-- I think I need to read the context here
22:48:01 <Vorpal> * ais523 quickly leafs through their #esoteric handbook for the bit on protecting oneself from an angry Slereah_$
22:48:01 -!- [Sgeo] has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
22:48:02 <Vorpal> heh
22:48:03 <nooga> Vorpal: dump base64fied files and then restore them from logs
22:48:13 <Vorpal> nooga, hah
22:50:44 -!- benuphoenix has quit (Quit: leaving).
22:51:03 <fizzie> Hey, that's actually a pretty nice spread: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomapn.png
22:51:04 <nooga> awesome
22:51:19 <nooga> yaay
22:51:26 <Vorpal> fizzie, what are the colours
22:51:40 <fizzie> Just arbitrary colours 30 degrees apart in the hue wheel.
22:51:42 <fizzie> With some overlap.
22:51:43 <nooga> i've got the biggest spread ad 6
22:51:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, what does it depict
22:51:59 <nooga> what does this mean?
22:52:23 <fizzie> It's again two first PCA components, except this time for each person's messages have been randomly split into ten parts.
22:52:24 <Vorpal> fizzie, and why is pikhq so similar to oerjan
22:52:44 <fizzie> Based on that, given a large enough sample, even these simple features could be used to determine reasonably reliably which one out of these 13 people was speaking, except that pikhq/oerjan do get confused.
22:52:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh nice
22:53:02 <fizzie> Using all the 60 dimensions could easily unconfuse those two too, this is just a 2-dimensional projection after all.
22:53:04 <alise> fizzie: so do I win?
22:53:10 <alise> also, i could guess who said who
22:53:12 <alise> with very high accuracy
22:53:14 <alise> *who said what
22:53:17 <alise> assuming it was just the regulars
22:53:18 <Vorpal> fizzie, there is also some sgeo/deewiant overlap
22:53:27 <alise> i could easily distinguish sgeo/deewiant
22:53:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, it is interesting to note both me and alise have very small spread
22:53:38 <alise> seriously, set up a game where it randomly gets a, say, 5-line chunk of logs
22:53:40 <Vorpal> perhaps due to larger sample size?
22:53:42 <fizzie> alise: Sure, but you're not an algorithm.
22:53:42 <alise> and make me fill in the names
22:53:45 <alise> i will pwn
22:53:46 <alise> :|
22:53:50 <Vorpal> fizzie, thus meaning it will be more uniform?
22:53:53 <nooga> fizzie: make an animated 4d projection
22:54:01 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yes, larger datasets probably make for smaller variance there.
22:54:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, might be interesting to split in equal sized bins, so everyone get n messages per dot
22:54:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, to see if the spread size does vary much or not
22:54:43 <nooga> kod kod kod
22:54:44 <Vorpal> for us
22:55:07 <alise> pikhq: I sure hope Fine Structure becomes more than merely a collection of Hughes' best short stories as it goes on.
22:55:59 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't have a script for that handy, but I can test-run that too.
23:00:27 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:02:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, awesome
23:03:25 <fizzie> (But later; early morning tomorrow.)
23:03:37 <Vorpal> ah
23:03:45 <Vorpal> alise, * ais523 is confused that tusho seems to think that ais523 is a ChanServ expert
23:04:17 <alise> he's said similar things to you far many more times
23:04:18 <alise> :)
23:04:45 <alise> are you just randomly logreading?
23:07:49 <fizzie> Vorpal: I did one more slight prettification to the existing esomapn.png, though: added contour-ellipses at sigma and 2*sigma for gaussians fitted on those ten points. (Though ten is not a very large sample to estimate things from, so... Still, it looks undeniably more sci-fi now.)
23:07:54 <Vorpal> alise, I'm taking last action by you or involving you in the screenful before a crash of the parser
23:08:05 <Vorpal> or in some cases not involving you
23:08:39 <Vorpal> fizzie, so it does :P
23:12:54 <alise> ON THE STARSHIP IRC, UNDER CAPTAIN ... UM... ...!!
23:12:58 <alise> etc.
23:13:16 <alise> fizzie: Weren't those lines before?
23:13:20 <alise> Or was it changed from that earlier?
23:14:18 <Vorpal> "* ehird googles core i7 sucks"
23:17:26 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:17:59 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:18:22 -!- Sgeo|web has joined.
23:19:01 <fizzie> The lines weren't in an earlier version, but I just sneakily updated in-place.
23:19:49 <alise> Random 32-bit number in J: #.?32$2
23:21:05 <alise> Random 32-bit number redux: ?2^32
23:21:05 <alise> :P
23:21:10 <alise> But the former has a different distribution, I think.
23:21:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, do pikhq and oerjan differ more on some pther PCAs?
23:22:41 <Vorpal> <alise> STAR TREKKIN' ACROSS #ESOTERICVERSE <-- too long to fit on the line. try "esoverse" to get the same number of syllables
23:22:49 <alise> true
23:22:53 <alise> who's the captain
23:22:59 <Vorpal> um
23:23:08 <Vorpal> who owns the channel?
23:23:11 <alise> "lament" is too long, "fizzie" is too long, "lilo" is too long and too dead
23:23:14 <nooga> star trek HA!
23:23:21 <Vorpal> andreou
23:23:22 <Vorpal> hm
23:23:23 <nooga> i've actually never watched it
23:23:24 <alise> Vorpal: founder is andreou, but
23:23:32 <alise> -ChanServ- 1 andreou +votsriRfAF [modified ? ago]
23:23:33 <alise> -ChanServ- 2 fizzie +votsriRfA [modified ? ago]
23:23:33 <alise> -ChanServ- 3 lament +votsriRfA [modified ? ago]
23:23:33 <alise> -ChanServ- 4 Aardappel +votiA [modified ? ago]
23:23:33 <alise> -ChanServ- 5 oerjan +votsriRfA [modified 30 weeks, 1 day, 01:00:41 ago]
23:23:33 <nooga> who is andreou
23:23:38 <alise> nooga: our glorious founder
23:23:52 <nooga> i don't know him, never talked with him
23:23:58 <Vorpal> alise, also it needs a longer starship name than irc
23:24:03 <Vorpal> enterprise is far longer
23:24:30 <Vorpal> AssertionError: invalid log body: SOCKSProxy failed to connect to host (error 1).
23:24:31 <Vorpal> hah
23:25:01 <alise> Vorpal: eye are cee
23:25:02 <alise> en ter prise
23:25:08 <alise> same syllables, fits perfectly
23:25:17 <alise> only stupid people say irk :)
23:25:33 <alise> j is so much fun to try and work out
23:27:08 <alise> "
23:27:08 <alise> *y is _1 if y is negative, 0 if it is zero, 1 if it is positive; more generally, *y is the intersection of the unit circle with the line from the origin through the argument y in the complex plane."
23:27:47 <nooga> hmm
23:27:54 <nooga> this etoile actually looks really cool
23:28:08 <nooga> i always wanted to use Obj-C outside of OSX
23:30:12 <fizzie> Vorpal: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap34n.png -- 3rd/4th principal components. These differentiate oerjan and pikhq a bit better.
23:30:47 <nooga> fizzie: why a I always in a different place?
23:31:16 <nooga> ha, alise has the smallest galaxy :D
23:31:50 <Vorpal> nooga, not unexpected as discussed before
23:31:54 <Vorpal> nooga, smaller is better
23:31:56 <fizzie> Is that "different" as in "different from others" or "different between images"?
23:32:47 <alise> so what does smaller actually mean?
23:32:59 <fizzie> A lot of those features are means, which tend to have smaller variance as the sample size grows. I'll see if I can do that same-sized sets thing.
23:33:45 <fizzie> With same sample sizes, a tighter grouping would mean the things it measures don't vary much in the person's text.
23:33:49 <nooga> fizzie: different between images, i guess that's because of perspective
23:34:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, you could use all axis to get some useful differentiation between everyone perhaps?
23:34:56 <fizzie> Vorpal: Any sensible classifier would use all 60 components, sure.
23:34:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:35:06 <alise> fizzie: DO IT.
23:35:19 <nooga> DO IT! FA...
23:35:37 <Vorpal> fizzie, btw apart from the components being orthogonal, are they also the same length
23:36:01 <Vorpal> fizzie, forgot what "all axis having equal-sized 1" was called
23:36:18 <fizzie> Vorpal: I don't think it's orthonormal, no.
23:36:27 <Vorpal> ah right that was the word
23:36:46 <Vorpal> fizzie, brb
23:37:41 <fizzie> alise: I'll try out training an alise-detecting neural net tomorrow or later. :p
23:37:47 <alise> Not hard :P
23:38:21 <nooga> huh
23:38:41 <nooga> just map one, small part of my brain
23:39:04 <alise> nooga: what?
23:40:29 <fizzie> Extracting algorithms out of brains, now that'd be quite a neat trick.
23:40:49 <nooga> yeah
23:41:14 <nooga> alise: nothing, it's just that somehow i can tell that you is you even if you change nick
23:41:43 <alise> it's easy to tell who says something even if you don't look
23:41:46 <nooga> the small part of my brain directs my fingers to type /whois <insert_nick_here> and etc.
23:41:47 <alise> we're all very predictable
23:42:48 <nooga> even if i will start producing textual white noise
23:42:55 <nooga> ;
23:48:28 <alise> yes
23:49:28 <Vorpal> fizzie, please include zzo in that graph too
23:49:35 <Vorpal> fizzie, just to see where he ends up
23:50:50 <alise> Vorpal: the galaxy would appear outside of your screen's border
23:50:52 <alise> in midair
23:50:56 <alise> *mid-air
23:51:04 <Vorpal> alise, hah.
23:51:44 <Vorpal> hm how to best characterise zzo? Perhaps the almost agressive accepting of the other persons viewpoint after stating his own? (But <foo> is fine too if you prefer it that way)
23:51:48 <nooga> alise: that was not a question
23:51:51 <Vorpal> or his use of "source codes"
23:51:57 <Vorpal> rather than "source code"
23:52:13 <Vorpal> to me code in the sense of "source code" is uncountable
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23:54:54 <bsmntbombdood> i have lots of source codes
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