00:01:57 Got the compressed air. 00:02:01 About to start vacuuming 00:02:29 anyway I now have this: http://j.mearie.org/post/1181041789/brainfuck-interpreter-in-2-lines-of-c 00:02:38 is 160 bytes enough? ;) 00:02:43 lifthrasiir: pah, it's three characters in J 00:03:00 alise: how? 00:03:14 lifthrasiir: unfortunately, Unicode is not big enough to contain them! 00:03:25 it looks like a brain, and then [censored], and then an IO relay. 00:03:30 (note: lies) 00:03:33 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 00:03:35 "Well, I ended up with a slightly large program than a tweet" -- no, no, Twitter is a website where you can twit twats! 00:03:43 not tweet tweets! :-P 00:04:01 lifthrasiir: isn't read/write shorter than syscalls? 00:04:20 alise: have tested it, but it didn't. 00:04:30 hmm, it isn't compliant 00:04:33 failing on non-instruction chars 00:04:39 also, calling main recursively is verboten, i'm pretty sure 00:04:44 alise, no, that's after I run N1> ddrescue --no-split /dev/sda imagefile logfile 00:04:50 Sorry, just needed a reminder 00:05:02 quite old school, I admit 00:05:03 The device will probably be different. That's ok, right? 00:05:24 lifthrasiir: wow, telling Chrome to translate the crazy network post was a mistake 00:05:26 "I'm going to feel lived several years in KAIST, KAIST network through the ranks at the KAIST She can not think. What I have in the school network, six sigma, it's just asking for your availability, "a little less" hope the dead, still comes to the school network, obesity, increased noticeably, thanks to Ross Ping KAIST FTPalso left a lasting impact. Hanggongeopgyenya what you guys have? When the rain delay?" 00:05:36 alise: hahaha 00:05:36 it's art! 00:05:49 machine translation is art. 00:06:07 korean is optimised for machine translation art 00:06:22 anyway that is about a problem of discarding HTTP packet with words "||", "from", "*" and "set" in that order 00:06:28 http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://j.mearie.org/post/862288439&act=url 00:06:33 link to the translation 00:06:39 the gateway silently discards packets after them 00:06:43 "But ... in my dorm under the posts once the bitter blow that almost never got to writing? That's so strange: I've checked, this came out." 00:06:46 korean is optimised for machine translation art <-- indeed 00:06:55 Swedish<->English or such generally works better 00:06:58 i had no idea what the post was about until you told me, but i didn't care 00:07:02 it was beautiful enough 00:07:07 similar language family though 00:07:29 every CJK language has that problem. ;) 00:08:00 lifthrasiir, what about CJK<->CJK? 00:08:20 Vacuum appears to have had little to no effect 00:08:32 Vorpal: J-K is very readable, but C-K and J-K is far from perfect 00:08:41 lifthrasiir: you could put the star there with &#foo 00:08:44 *&#foo; 00:08:46 mainly due to the SVO and SOV order 00:08:52 also... 00:08:55 || from * set 00:08:57 oh HTTP packets only 00:08:58 darn ;) 00:09:16 SgeoN1, not a high power vacuum? The Miele at home tends to be very very efficient 00:09:17 more accurately, HTTP-like packets ;) 00:09:46 lifthrasiir, hm 00:09:54 200 OK HTTP/1.1 00:09:58 I think a lot of the dust was actually caught in te metal 00:09:59 Content-type: text/plain 00:09:59 00:10:01 || from * set 00:10:11 Need different screwdriver 00:10:30 alise: I didn't test HTTP response... but it detects HTTP requests 00:10:33 at the minimum 00:10:39 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: &dragon; &maiden; &knight;). 00:12:09 brb 00:18:19 http://i.imgur.com/SjRd8.jpg 00:22:11 I'm pretty sure I saw a thing of dust go under the motherboard 00:26:55 duts 00:28:08 * SgeoN1 hopes be didn't just damage an epectronics 00:28:18 I saw the stuff look liquidy 00:32:43 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:40:06 http://sprunge.us/MHcC 00:43:18 Bit of a problem.... 00:44:02 I added the BytePusher logo to the table of contents page of the ByrePusher implementation, just like the BytePusher logo in the wiki 00:44:03 http://i.imgur.com/kGgUu.jpg 00:44:25 I don't think this problem is resolvable. I think they just wont fit 00:44:35 Vorpal, alise? 00:46:31 Dammit, wake up, somebody! 00:49:21 In hardware incompetence, no one can hear you scream 00:51:36 SgeoN1: What is your problem? 00:51:52 Need to put HD in computer. Cannot 00:51:53 It looks like that is the wrong kind of connection 00:51:57 Indeed 00:52:31 You need to get a different hard drive!! 00:52:47 No. This hard drive is broken, and has stuff on it 00:52:52 (If you want to transfer the files, go somewhere else borrow a computer with both) 00:53:10 Maybe an external disk mount thingy? 00:53:37 I have an old HD that I haven't looked at in years. Maybe ill go check it out 00:54:47 SgeoN1: Yes, use an external connector if you have one of that 00:55:02 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 00:55:06 I'll need to buy one 01:04:39 No. This hard drive is broken, and has stuff on it <-- you can't mix PATA with SATA obviously 01:04:47 SgeoN1, the computer has PATA, the drive is SATA 01:04:48 duh 01:05:00 Ok 01:06:30 At any rate, there's an ancient HD that I want to take a look at. First thing I'll do, SMART, if there are significant errors ill back this up too 01:06:33 SgeoN1, also, putting a disk upside down like that makes me nervous. Don't run it upside down (should work but...) 01:06:49 That disk isn't in there anymore 01:06:53 SgeoN1, if it is ancient it's probably PATA 01:07:19 Ancient drive is PATA. does PATA not have SMART? 01:09:08 SgeoN1, it may or may not 01:09:15 SgeoN1, really old drives won't 01:09:26 but that must be like 2001 or earlier 01:09:59 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 01:10:04 for example, the drive in my old ibook lacks SMART 01:13:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:55 Why is Parted Magic starting sshd? 01:15:15 There should be two drives in the machine. It's only seeing one 01:15:30 SgeoN1, did you put in the correct jumpers 01:15:34 you need to do that for PATA 01:15:48 SgeoN1, before changing that *TURN OFF THE SYSTEM* 01:16:08 SgeoN1, do under no circumstances change jumpers when the system is connected to power 01:16:09 O, it sees the drives 01:16:15 SgeoN1, ? 01:16:16 The smart tool only saw one 01:16:49 SgeoN1, I hope you put one as master and one as slave (unless existing one was as cable select, then put all as cable select) 01:16:54 Wait no, those are partitions 01:17:17 SgeoN1, see what I said wrt jumpers at back of pata drives 01:18:08 Right, didn't see labels, so hoped for the best. Will check 01:18:26 SgeoN1, and *TURN OFF BEFORE CHANGING* 01:18:38 SgeoN1, changing live = probably going to short a lot of stuff 01:18:44 The case is back on.. 01:19:01 SgeoN1, well, before you change that you need to turn the thing off and unplug 01:19:04 And I wouldn't even dream of touching a live computer 01:19:08 good 01:19:22 Do you think I'm an idiot? Oh wait... 01:19:33 SgeoN1, as a matter of fact: yes I do 01:19:54 I'm also award of Tue danger of static electricity 01:20:15 SgeoN1, hot plugging anything inside a computer is best left for experts in data centers. 01:20:26 it is not possible on consumer PCs 01:20:40 O.o 01:21:04 SgeoN1, well, there are some sort of servers where you can hot plug RAM. Or even CPUs 01:21:14 O.o 01:21:19 don't try at home 01:21:26 it needs special hardware 01:21:32 if you don't know about it, you don't have it 01:29:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:29:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Changing host). 01:29:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 01:29:46 Vorpal, stop talking to me like I'm an idiot 01:29:52 You don't need to repeat yourself 01:30:09 Although, does the software need to co-operate too? What OSes can do it? 01:30:24 And I assume all such machines are multi-CPU if CPUs are hot-swappable 01:30:32 Unless they go to sleep while the CPU is out 01:32:46 Yes, they're multi-CPU. And there is OS support needed. 01:32:56 Support for it is almost exclusively in UNIX systems. 01:33:14 (I don't think it's *possible* for it to be in Windows) 01:34:50 Vorpal, the jumper stuff is unlabelled 01:36:08 http://i.imgur.com/yXocA.jpg 01:37:21 SgeoN1, what about the top 01:37:24 or the bottom 01:37:34 SgeoN1, one of them generally have labels describing the jumpers 01:37:36 SgeoN1, -_- 01:37:56 Found it, ty 01:38:05 Although, does the software need to co-operate too? What OSes can do it? <-- linux can iirc. 01:38:10 Should I check what the other drive has? 01:38:15 And I assume all such machines are multi-CPU if CPUs are hot-swappable <--- and yes 01:38:26 SgeoN1, if the other one has master, this one should be slave 01:38:29 and opposite 01:38:33 if that is what you means 01:38:34 mean* 01:38:40 SgeoN1, on the same cable that is 01:38:56 Also, what is Cap Limit? 01:38:58 SgeoN1, if you connected it to the cable with CD on it, then it needs to be the same there 01:39:18 SgeoN1, um... guessing here... compat mode for old BIOSes 01:39:21 don't touch that stuff 01:40:06 I think I can just check the drive that used to be in there, because that worked 01:40:41 alise, I got my hands on an old Dell Latitude D610. Which linux distro should I install? 01:40:42 i want quadrocopter! 01:40:50 Vorpal: debian 01:41:01 nooga, boring, I want to try something exotic 01:41:09 Vorpal: LFS 01:41:15 ... there is no jumper 01:41:45 SgeoN1, ? 01:42:06 SgeoN1, check what no jumper means on the other drive then 01:42:08 perhaps cable select? 01:42:17 in which case both drives should be on cable select 01:42:24 I don't see the label on the other drive 01:42:29 hot swappable computers 01:42:32 SgeoN1, a bit tricky then 01:42:35 back 01:42:36 Erm, as in the removed one 01:42:38 alise, I got my hands on an old Dell Latitude D610. Which linux distro should I install? 01:42:40 how old? 01:42:44 Checking actually attached one now 01:42:45 like what kinda specs 01:42:56 i want to hot-swap my whole laptop at once so that my system would still run 01:43:00 alise, Pentium M @ 1.86 GHz 01:43:12 alise, 512 MB RAM 01:43:16 whoa 01:43:23 alise, 55 GB HDD 01:43:27 go for fedora 01:43:38 RPM... ewww no 01:43:38 i was just about to say fedora for no particular reason, but eff you nooga 01:43:46 Vorpal: note: people use rpm as much as dpkg nowadays 01:43:53 and people have foul memories of rpm because of dependency hell 01:43:56 just like pure dpkg would have ;) 01:44:01 alise, I'm thinking arch or maybe nixos? 01:44:14 Vorpal: NixOS would be cool 01:44:21 Vorpal: hmm, thinking what else 01:44:34 Vorpal: oh, the choice is obvious! 01:44:35 BSD 01:44:36 alise, can you put nixos on a usb stick? I'm a bit short on CD-R currently 01:44:42 yes, i did 01:44:45 but it is very very painful 01:44:50 well not that painful 01:44:51 actually 01:44:54 mostly it was my mistake 01:44:55 alise, and which BSD? It isn't a toaster, so it can't be NetBSD 01:44:58 or rather the web server's mistake 01:45:05 Vorpal: well FreeBSD is the boring linuxy one 01:45:12 I can't seem to remove the drive to get a good look 01:45:17 OpenBSD is gonna try and stop you even USING such an insecure machine! 01:45:19 alise, well I used freebsd quite a bit 01:45:22 but why bsd at all 01:45:35 DragonflyBSD has, according to cpressey, a bit of a weird culture like FreeBSD 01:45:39 and NetBSD's software is a bit old 01:45:44 (X is a few major versions out of date) 01:45:55 but then the computer is old ;) 01:45:56 alise, and this is not a toaster, even though it gets quite hot easily 01:45:57 Vorpal: because linux is boring now! 01:46:09 I suppose guessing what jumpers mean is a bad thing? 01:46:11 Vorpal: NO WAIT I KNOW 01:46:15 Vorpal: FUCKING MASTODON 01:46:19 Vorpal: put mastodon on it 01:46:21 alise, hah 01:46:25 it may not have been updated for yonks, but neither has your laptop been 01:46:27 and it's fucking awesome 01:46:29 Linux 2.0! 01:46:37 XFree86 version OLD! 01:46:40 BSD userland! 01:46:42 alise, if I can get it on an usb stick, and I doubt that 01:46:48 Vorpal: you could 01:46:52 Vorpal: there's floppies or an install CD 01:46:53 mastodon? 01:46:57 the install CD is about 500-600 MiB 01:47:00 alise, floppies = tricky 01:47:02 nooga: the most retro linux distro ever 01:47:04 Vorpal: so do it with a CD 01:47:06 Vorpal: use unetbootin 01:47:11 it can put any bootable iso onto a usb stick 01:47:15 hm okay 01:47:22 http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg 01:47:28 i'd go for plain FreeBSD 01:47:39 dragonfly is also quite cool 01:47:40 Any idea? 01:47:49 and NetBSD's software is a bit old <-- it DOES keep at least some of the software in its repos up to date 01:47:51 the boring and sane alternative would be Arch. 01:48:02 Vorpal: run Plan9 natively 01:48:03 Also, the thing that didn't work is currently slave, so trying cs would make sense 01:48:13 Vorpal: arch is i686 01:48:16 far too modern to be allowed 01:48:23 alise, this is pentium m 01:48:24 nooga: cpressey has soured me to dragonfly :P 01:48:26 so um 01:48:27 Vorpal: TOO MODERN 01:48:28 :P 01:48:40 alise, I verified from ubuntu livecd that all those Fn-whatever work under it 01:48:41 uh 01:48:47 i gotta go to sleep 01:48:48 And if these keys are the same, the CD is not master, so.. 01:48:51 so good night all 01:49:02 Try it? 01:49:28 http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg <-- just a blur? 01:50:01 SgeoN1, another idea: temporarily unplug the cd while this is happening 01:50:05 ~bokeh~ 01:50:09 then you are on the safe side 01:50:15 Vorpal: how much are you charging SgeoN1 for this undeferred consultancy? 01:50:34 alise, $1/ms 01:51:04 "Some people seem to think that C is a real programming language, but they are sadly mistaken. It really is about writing almost-portable assembly language, and it turns out that getting good results from SHA1 really is mostly about trying to fight the compilers tendency to try to be clever." --Linus Torvalds 01:51:06 http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg 01:51:13 "I think when you told that C is not real prog lang then you meant it is not Turing Complaint. But, it is really hard to prove C is not Turing Equivalent. Can you please give one example?." --Chandra Shekhar Tewary, in a comment on the post 01:51:14 alise, and I expect he repays this by actually learning after this 01:51:21 Being retarded: It's what's for dinner! 01:51:27 http://i.imgur.com/irLDq.jpg <-- yeees, just a blur 01:51:35 it is completely useless to see anything 01:51:37 haha wow @ his blogger profile 01:51:38 "Humanized Useless Motion Particle located on the Earth..still learning how to walk alone without harming ecosystem. ETL Designer/Unix Shell Programmer/Lyricist." 01:51:45 Vorpal: i think SgeoN1 is trying to be artistic 01:51:49 you can tell because of the bokeh! 01:52:08 alise, I don't see any book 01:52:15 alise, I think the green thing is a jumper... 01:52:16 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bokeh 01:52:23 you're an amateur photographer, you should know this :P 01:52:36 alise, hm I deal in panophoto 01:52:43 not in mumbo-jumbo 01:52:57 oh no jargon! 01:53:03 in the field of computing we know nothing of it 01:53:08 alise, indeed! 01:53:10 Bleh, ill just try CS 01:53:19 do you actually aim for anything when making photos or do you just like it if it's 360 degrees 01:53:28 that panorama you did in that room looking out that window was hideously boring 01:53:38 alise, I aim for some great scenic views 01:53:41 when out in nature 01:53:59 alise, and that one in the room was a test one, for the panobot 01:54:02 Figures it out 01:54:05 alise, it was raining outside... 01:54:13 alise, and I wanted to test that it worked :P 01:54:21 A while ago, I cannabalized a computer for its CD drive 01:54:24 alise, so yes boring 01:54:31 The drive is still here 01:54:37 It's set to CS 01:56:28 What's the worst that happens if the drive is upside down? The cable barely reaches like this 01:58:47 Do you ask as many questions in real life? 01:58:58 N/m 02:03:34 Got everything to fit, closing computer 02:04:02 I wish I asked more questions. Like, "May I sit next to you? " 02:04:11 I'm getting better at that one 02:04:21 night → 02:04:32 Night 02:04:53 -!- augur has joined. 02:09:14 I should really, really make a custom grub CD soon 02:09:28 Would make my life much easier 02:09:53 Used to have a grub floppy when I had issues with my computer 02:10:11 To help me to boot into Ubuntu instead of Freespire 02:10:28 GOD DAMMIT GUY WITH THE µTORRENT, YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DOWNLOAD FROM ME 02:10:45 IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO HAVE A GOOD SHARE RATIO WHEN NOBODY DOWNLOADS FROM YOU 02:10:59 * pikhq shall put down the torrent client to avoid violence against algorithms 02:13:06 Aaaaaarrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh 02:13:16 Fffffffffuuuuuuuuiuiuuuuuu 02:14:38 Lolwhat? This makes no sense 02:15:18 Put the wrong disk in 02:16:20 Which makes absolutely no sense as that disk should jot have needed a jumper change 02:16:37 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism 02:17:06 pikhq: maybe his client doesn't do encryption? 02:17:08 maybe he's set it not to 02:17:11 his/her 02:18:09 alise: It does encryption. 02:18:22 His client is clearly set to be a bitch. 02:18:29 Yes, I looked at the data. The drive does appear to be failing. Ill go start recovery procedures, there's stuff on here that I want to hold onto 02:18:40 pikhq: Indeed. 02:20:04 Fucknigget 02:20:07 Nugget 02:20:38 Where'd I put the power and USB cable for the external drive? 02:25:36 Can someone grep logs to see how much space I claimed to have bef.. wait, n/m 02:27:49 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:30:43 Vorpal: give your CPU 1024 general-purpose 64-bit registers 02:30:46 because why not 02:31:59 -!- augur has joined. 02:32:33 * Sgeo cries 02:32:44 (not literally) 02:33:18 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:NevilleDNZ 02:36:40 alise: ÜberRISC, eh? 02:37:01 pikhq: no, he's doing some hideous hybrid of RISC and CISC 02:37:06 but registers are super-cool 02:37:07 in fact 02:37:15 with 1,024 you never, ever need to pass arguments on the stack :) 02:37:36 let's say you support functions with 64 arguments, which is ridiculous, that's still 960 general-purpose registers 02:37:46 Registers are awesomeness. Especially when you could feasibly cease to have a L1 cache because of them. 02:37:47 of course if your language is based on Scheme's apply then you might have issues :P 02:37:58 i hate how misunderstood risc is 02:38:02 like the pdp-8 has 8 basic instructions 02:38:04 but it's a CISC 02:38:17 and modern RISCs have a shitload of instructions, and people don't get this 02:38:54 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-8#Instruction_set 02:38:57 pretty beautiful architecture 02:39:04 Load-store architecture, with equal-sized instructions, a lot of registers. Isn't that RISC in a nutshell? 02:39:06 hey alise 02:39:23 pikhq: That's pretty close, yeah... 02:39:24 augur: hi 02:39:46 sup 02:39:51 pikhq: I wonder if RISC and VLIW are partially reconcilable. :P 02:39:54 (Only because VLIW is fucking cool.) 02:40:02 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:40:07 Agrajag 02:40:08 augur: soup 02:40:11 :D 02:40:12 alise: One could have very large instructions of constant size. 02:40:13 :) 02:40:13 My step-mother's here 02:40:19 Agrajag: not a curse. 02:40:25 pikhq: lawl 02:40:32 He is cursed 02:40:52 And you could have a *lot* of load-store happening there. 02:41:02 Well, maybe not literally 02:41:06 But it must feel like it 02:41:14 pikhq: Transmeta's x86 Crusoe processor "compiles" instructions down to VLIW, iirc 02:41:18 And of course you'd want, say, 4096 registers to maximize the ridiculous parallelism. :) 02:41:37 Transmeta addresses this issue by including a binary-to-binary software compiler layer (termed Code Morphing) in their Crusoe implementation of the x86 architecture. Basically, this mechanism is advertised to recompile, optimize, and translate x86 opcodes at runtime into the CPU's internal machine code. Thus, the Transmeta chip is internally a VLIW processor, effectively decoupled from the x86 CISC instruction set that it executes. 02:41:43 ^ Awesome. 02:41:55 pikhq: I wonder if any RISC CPUs optimise out load/stores somehow. 02:42:06 Like, "load x -> modify x -> store x" to a direct modification internally. 02:42:37 alise: Nice theory, but the CPU already has to do load, modify, store. 02:42:46 True. 02:42:47 pikhq: ... 02:43:02 You know how graphics cards use 2D acceleration to directly mess with the frame buffer? 02:43:07 Without involving the CPU? 02:43:12 pikhq: ACCELERATED MEMORY 02:43:29 You tell the memory, "oh, copy this range to here", or "increment this location", and it does it. >:) 02:44:08 That's called parallelism. 02:44:42 Aaaaand probably wouldn't work as well as you think. 02:45:05 The CPU is not actually operating directly on memory. All of its operations are happening on its cache. 02:49:56 BAH 02:49:57 SHUT UP 02:49:59 >_> 02:50:17 pikhq: Fine, expose the cache as registers. 02:50:48 Okay, 4096 registers it is. 02:50:50 :D 02:50:58 Well, for L1 cache. 02:51:06 pikhq: I was about to say :P 02:51:19 For L2, let's say... 2097152? 02:51:22 pikhq: You mean 393,216. 02:51:30 3 mebibytes, because why not. 02:51:34 Mmkay. 02:51:36 I think that's what the top Core 2s had. 02:51:44 pikhq: Man, imagine giving them names. 02:51:51 Like the world's biggest Excel spreadsheet. 02:51:53 EAOBXIABIUXBIUA 02:52:04 Actually, it went up to 12. 02:52:22 Oh, right. 02:52:24 That's just stupid though. 02:52:34 pikhq: 3 mebibytes = MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMCCXVI registers 02:52:40 We could just name them with roman numerals! 02:52:43 :D 02:52:48 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:53:02 Clearly the Romans just needed meta-numerals. 02:53:09 -!- augur has joined. 02:53:14 Except that that's off. 02:53:19 Then you could write that as: 02:53:25 M(CCCXCIII)CCXVI 02:53:32 That is, CCCXCIII Ms, then CCXVI. 02:53:42 pikhq: It is? :( 02:53:48 I know they have the thousands notation and stuff, but that's boring. 02:53:58 alise: They had a one million notation. 02:54:05 SHUT UP META-NUMERALS ARE BETTER 02:54:12 Actually knowing the Romans they wouldn't even mark the (...). 02:54:16 Maybe they'd have just (, or just ). 02:54:23 MCCCXCIII)CCXVI 02:54:33 You're expected to figure out from context that M is the numeral being repeated! 02:54:39 (Note: I may hate Roman numerals a bit.) 02:56:11 -!- augur_ has joined. 02:56:12 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:56:51 pikhq: I, II, VI, VIII, XVI, XXXII, LXIV, CXXVIII, CCLVI, DXII, MXXIV, MMXLVIII, MMMMXCVI; any good student of the calculation-knowledges should memorise these figures. 02:57:33 That'd *actually* be (CCCXC)MMMCCXVI. 02:57:55 pikhq: wait, they actualy had such a system? 02:58:00 *actually 02:58:01 oh wait i see 02:58:08 what does that mean, repeat the M? 02:58:20 Parens are *10^4. 02:58:30 pikhq: No, I was inventing my own notation. 02:58:40 I am using the actual notation. 02:58:46 Parens are *10^4. 02:58:53 x[y] = x, repeated y times, let's say. 02:59:21 VI[III] = stupidest way of writing 8 ever. 02:59:36 CCC*10^4 + XC*10^4 + MMM + CC + X + VI. 03:00:03 Mine is better because it's textual! 03:00:09 Which is pretty damn close to SEXTUAL 03:00:34 * Sgeo learns of Talkers 03:01:09 * Sgeo hastily turns on colored nicks 03:02:11 http://talker.com/ aww 03:18:23 pikhq: I propose that we design a processor that doesn't suck. In fact, it will be powered entirely by unicorns. Oh, wait, we're done. 03:18:28 Thank god for unicorn magic. 03:19:35 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NISC wat 03:19:38 * Sgeo steals alise's kidney 03:19:56 NOOOO 03:19:58 I need that. 03:21:52 lol @ http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=1_(The_Beatles_album)&curid=163213&diff=386862914&oldid=386815336 03:22:06 It's obviously a hopeless newbie injecting POV because they don't have a MAGIC WIKIPEDIA CABAL USERNAME! 03:22:12 Revert without reading edit summary! 03:31:35 All I can say is that I am surprised someone could possibly think a Beatles release would *not* sell obnoxiously well. 03:33:34 Which was more POVy? 03:34:23 "Exceptional" is very POVy. "Exceeded critical expectations" could be demonstrated by noting how various critics were surprised. 03:49:44 exceptional isn't POVy 03:49:53 read the context 03:49:57 the /reception/ was exceptional 03:50:12 i.e. it received reception out of the norm; it was received with an excellent reception 03:50:36 since it was at least partly predicted to sell very well, the reception did not "surpass all critical and commercial expectations" 03:50:40 however, the reception /was/ exceptional. 03:50:44 Mmmkay. 03:50:54 i'd re-revert, but i'm an IP too, so :wikinazi: 03:51:24 pikhq: Are word-aligned instructions helpful? 03:51:26 I guess so. 03:52:24 *groan* Fedora 14 introduces systemd, a smarter, more efficient way of starting up and managing background daemons and services. It is a mostly compatible replacement for sysvinit and upstart, supporting SysV and LSB init scripts. See the FAQ and Tips and Tricks. 03:52:29 How many startup daemons do we have now? 03:53:45 pikhq: Have you figured out the cure for NIH yet...? 03:54:27 3? 03:54:34 Sgeo: Um, no. 03:54:37 There's only 3, including Fedora 14's, right? 03:54:41 bsdinit, for one. 03:54:46 Sys-V 03:54:47 Distro-specific ones. 03:54:51 Service managers. 03:54:54 ....distro specific thingies? 03:54:54 Random little ones. 03:54:56 * Sgeo cries 03:55:01 * Sgeo shoots self 03:55:05 alise: Word-aligned instructions are helpful because *generally* a CPU's entire fetching structure is set up around fetching words. 03:55:10 Sgeo: Believe it or not, but distros used to be the driving force in Linux development. 03:55:13 In fact, they still are. 03:55:14 alise: Exceptions include: x86 and, uh, x86. 03:55:31 pikhq: Okay, then my proposed instruction format is this: Every instruction is 24 bytes. 03:55:46 * Sgeo blinks 03:56:07 Overkill-tastic. 03:56:14 pikhq: Nope. 64-bit. 03:56:15 That's three words. 03:56:24 Hrm. So it would be. 03:56:26 So: opcode, two addresses, and extra operands. 03:56:37 You shouldn't really have less than two addresses, obviously. 03:56:45 Especially for literals. 03:56:54 Two words wouldn't be enough, since you need to stick the opcode in there too. 03:56:56 So three words, 24 bytes. 03:57:10 pikhq: Also, in the wonderful RISC tradition, most instructions get something free! 03:57:14 *something for free! 03:57:27 NOP? Why, that's two whole words you can easily store a constant in! 03:57:59 Fedora: distributing on four CDs means you fail at life. 03:58:01 That is all. 03:58:31 Oh, that's the "install media". 03:58:36 What you actually want is the "live CD". 03:58:39 To "install" with. 03:58:43 "Hurr". 04:00:02 When does SGU Season 2 start? 04:00:44 Never. 04:00:48 It was cancelled. 04:01:53 Cancellations don't shut me up 04:01:57 So don't bother.. 04:02:09 Sgeo: Wikipedia says in three days, but that's outdated; it was cancelled a few days ago. 04:02:39 * Sgeo finds it 04:02:59 ty 04:03:12 Dude, it's cancelled. 04:03:24 * Sgeo grepped the page for "season 2" and "season two{ 04:03:33 Instead of just looking at the first paragraph 04:03:48 And I won't believe you unless you provide a citation. I'm not gullible 04:03:53 (and the citation actually states it) 04:03:59 (and the citation is credible) 04:04:06 (erm, the cited thing, come to think of it) 04:07:42 Firefox crashed 04:09:22 * Sgeo wishes XChat was integrated with Ubuntu's chat menu thing 04:11:28 pikhq: Stop me making my own Linux distribution, it's happening again. 04:11:30 I need an NIH shot. 04:12:15 Sgeo: I've got a citation for it still *not* being cancelled. 04:12:15 (The NIH vaccination works by making you want to reinvent every single thing for an hour; usually, you vow to refuse to exist as quarks, only resuming existing when you invent something better. This passes.) 04:12:35 pikhq: YOU JUST SIGNED US UP FOR MONTHS' WORTH OF SGEO TALKING ABOUT SGU 04:12:41 Good job 04:12:54 Since when do I stay focused on a single thing for months? 04:13:01 Last season? 04:13:05 PSOX 04:13:08 PSOX. 04:13:15 pikhq: no he watched all of SGU season 1 at once 04:13:20 ...ok, point granted 04:13:21 Oh, right. 04:13:27 Just PSOX, then. 04:14:08 It occurs to me that I should turn off my old computer several hours ago to try to save the HD 04:14:15 Although that HD wasn't damaged as sucb 04:14:18 It's just old 04:14:55 pikhq: Please tell me why creating a new distribution is a terrible idea 04:14:56 *idea. 04:15:17 alise: Because you'd have to rewrite everything to do it right. 04:15:25 pikhq: Not the kernel! 04:15:27 I can keep the kernel. 04:15:36 Turns out it was already off 04:15:37 You'd probably *want* to rewrite the kernel. 04:15:44 Nope! I am blissfully ignoring it. 04:15:55 What does this large button on my external HD do? 04:15:57 Okay, then you'd have to rewrite everything else. 04:16:27 Fedora distributes 701.1 MiB Live DVDs. Discuss the inanity. 04:16:44 Isn't that what fits on a CD? 04:16:50 Yes. 04:17:10 Not really. 04:17:14 A mode-1 CD can fit 650 MiB. 04:17:29 Incidentally, do I obsessively talk about The Guild or Legend of Neil? 04:17:48 Both of those are weekly (bi-weekly for LoN) things that I love and don't obsess about in here 04:17:59 Of course you can get slightly bigger CDs. 04:18:05 And really, they can fucking fit everything on a CD. 04:18:08 Ubuntu does it. 04:18:37 alise: 650 and 700 MiB are the two common data sizes on 12cm discs. 04:18:38 You can fit everything in 50MiB! 04:19:06 pikhq: Right. 04:19:21 alise: Both of these are 100% compliant; 700 MiB is just a bit closer to the tolerances of the medium, and might not work on a handful of obnoxiously old devices. 04:19:22 So basically, Fedora are mandating burning a DVD for the sake of 1.1 MiB. 04:19:48 You can get up to about 870 MiB while still being a CD, but your CD drive may kick you. 04:20:22 "IT HURTS" 04:20:35 ...btw, why do we still distribute music on CD? 04:20:44 Oh, and of course, you can make it *technically* not a CD by cutting down the leadout a bit to get more data. 04:20:54 It seems like we should be standardising USB pen drive music by now. 04:21:06 RIAA wouldn't stand for it. 04:21:17 Let's say this: 04:21:34 They imagine that being a CD makes it somewhat time-consuming to copy. And that digital distribution should be DRM'd. 04:21:58 Also, you *know* that the morons responsible for that would make it a lossy compression format, probably encoded by someone who should never breed. 04:22:21 In the root directory, tracklst.m3u; subset of m3u only supporting absolute-to-root-of-drive pathnames, not URLs; perhaps no comments, either. Also, no extended m3u. 04:22:40 WAVs in some container with a simple list of predefined tags for the actual audio. 04:22:47 This would be trivial to support in a stereo. 04:23:08 See, if that were the format I would be totally happy. 04:23:12 You need a teeny tiny computer board to read the files, a teeny tiny tag parser, and the rest is done for you. 04:23:25 pikhq: In fact, if we used extended m3u we could just use plain wavs. 04:23:32 Since extended m3u stores what are basically tags in the comments. 04:23:40 This avoids parsing a container in stereos. 04:23:52 WAV is already a container format. 04:23:56 Yeah, but a tagless one. 04:24:19 INFO chunk. 04:24:25 pikhq: We /could/ standardise a raw format, *but* it'd be nice to let the silly 48 kHZ, 24-bit releases stay. 04:24:33 The tags are merely not commonly supported or used. 04:24:35 *kHz 04:24:48 pikhq: Ideally, you'd be able to load the m3u on a computer and have it Just Work. 04:25:07 A bonus to all this is that album length will never be a problem. 04:25:21 Because a 4 GiB flash drive is dirt-cheap. 04:25:26 alise: One problem with this: CDs are really cheap to produce. 04:25:27 Also, of course, you can have videos and artwork and crap. 04:25:32 I mean really, really, really cheap. 04:25:45 pikhq: True. And music is really, really, really expensive. 04:25:50 Physical music, that is. 04:26:00 There have been singles released on USB, just no standardisation. 04:26:02 Your proposal would cut into the RIAA's profit margins. 04:26:20 Which rely on 2¢ CDs. 04:26:31 An old laptop that I found wouldn 04:26:36 wouldn't be able to play it 04:26:53 Fuck the RIAA with a rusty tree trunk in the process of being chainsawed. 04:26:59 Then just, you know, don't stop with the chainsaw. 04:27:00 I concur. 04:27:07 In fact, leave the branches on the trunk. 04:27:36 It is so cool that NeXT computers used magneto-optical drives. 04:27:54 "Minions! I am Steve Jobs and I want to know the MOST AWESOME TYPE OF FLOPPY DISK POSSIBLE so we can use it to store all the data on." 04:28:07 "Let's put a rewritable CD IN A FUCKING FLOPPY DISK." 04:28:08 "FUCK YES" 04:28:28 "HERE MR. JOBS IS OUR TWO GIGABYTE FLOPPY DISK" 04:29:11 I found an ancient laptop 04:30:15 :D 04:30:16 pikhq: Ignoring all overhead, a 4 GiB flash drive could store 6.6 hours of CD-quality audio data. 04:30:23 THIS IS AWESOME 04:30:33 alise: Further if you mandate a lossless compression format. 04:30:45 Oh wait, there is a USB port 04:30:48 pikhq: Ye-es, but I'm not sure stereo manufacturers would like that. 04:31:06 Most of them are already including MP3 decoders. 04:31:46 If you go for FLAC, then it'll be easier than decoding MP3. 04:32:06 It's a Toshiba Sattelite 2595CDT 04:32:18 OH CRUD 04:33:04 * Sgeo put his Ubuntu DVD into the CD drive 04:35:06 pikhq: Truth. 04:35:16 Although FLAC has a special fixed-point decoder, right? 04:35:30 (I wonder why that isn't the main decoder? Maybe I'm imagining this.) 04:37:42 Wow Fedora's LiveCD boots slowly. 04:37:47 Why is this one of the most famous distributions? 04:37:58 alise: It only supports fixed-point samples. 04:38:04 My dad said I can keep it! 04:38:25 It is 100% fixed-point, encoding and decoding. 04:38:31 pikhq: Alright then. 04:38:31 It's like a ridiculously heavy netbook! 04:38:43 pikhq: As a side note, a wonderful FLAC bug: 04:38:49 Vorbis is the one with a special fixed-point decoder. 04:38:58 I don't see a thingy for wifi 04:39:04 One of the default parameters for, tunekey or something, is blah(0,5) or something of the like. 04:39:20 pikhq: Of course, in a lot of European locales, what does this read as? 04:39:23 blah(0.5). 04:39:40 So a version of FLAC was released which, on *certain locales*, produced larger-than-necessary output. 04:39:46 Because of a decimal point. 04:39:51 That's ridiculous. 04:39:52 This is *hilarious*. 04:39:57 It was talked about on Hydrogen Audio. 04:40:08 Conclusion: LOCALES AAAAAAAARGH 04:40:09 Parted Magic is taking a while to load 04:40:26 (I'm using Parted Magic because it's the only modern distro I have a CD, not DVD, of) 04:40:52 pikhq: How's Wayland's X11 compatibility; do you know? 04:40:54 I have multiple-year-old Ubuntus lying around somewhere, and I saw what is probably an ancient Knoppix on the dining room table 04:41:23 MicroXwin is binary compatible to the Xlib API. However it is neither client server nor network oriented. Graphics operations are implemented in the linux kernel via a kernel module. An open source Xlib library sends graphics commands to the kernel. There is no network overhead and no context switch from X client to X server. This makes our solution smaller and faster than traditional X Windows. 04:41:25 http://www.microxwin.com/ 04:41:31 If only the kernel module wasn't proprietary. 04:41:34 That's fucking sweet. 04:42:03 No idea. 04:42:03 X11 evilness FIXED? 04:42:13 An improvement of 62% for asynchronous display or 384% for synchronous display of images of a 100x100 size. 04:42:14 There are only about 300 Kbytes of kernel memory in use by the kernel module. X.Org server, however, has a run-time memory usage of 12MB. 04:42:15 The smallest MicroXwin distribution can fit within 1 megabyte of disk space in contrast to the X.Org Server, which has a disk footprint of 1.8MB. 04:42:15 Still fucking sweet, though. 04:42:26 That isn't Wayland, that's a separate thing. 04:42:35 No network transparency? Who even uses that nowadays? 04:42:41 "The library needs to be updated each time Xlib is changed in order to maintain compatibility." ;; durr 04:42:56 "The additional kernel module x11.ko may crash the system if it is not well-designed or stable." ;; and you trust *graphics card developers*? 04:42:58 I can't have this comp be on the charge at the same time as fiddling with the ancient laptop 04:43:02 This, ancient laptop wins 04:43:09 "Performance is independent of scheduling latency caused by the scheduler, because the X server is no longer a process in the system." ;; this. is. win. 04:43:16 No more X lag! 04:43:43 "MicroXwin can be easily ported to other OS besides Linux. Contact us with more information." 04:43:49 Therefore, surely the kernel module must be pretty simple? 04:43:52 Therefore CLEAN ROOM 04:43:56 Sgeo is dead. Long live SgeoN1 04:44:47 LibX11.so is 720K bytes. 04:44:48 LibXext.so is 7K bytes. 04:44:48 Kernel module x11.ko is 300K bytes. 04:44:50 HOW IS IT SO SMALL 04:45:08 Well, it's implementing an X compatible API, not actual X. 04:45:25 pikhq: Yes ... because I have seen applications directly connect to X11 with a socket ... 04:45:34 Can xcb be made to work with xlib as a backend? 04:45:43 No. 04:45:45 Somehow? :P 04:45:51 pikhq: Then this wouldn't work for xcb-using applications? 04:46:02 alise: You could maybe port it, though. 04:46:12 pikhq: answer my question >.> 04:46:19 Like with yes or no :| 04:46:24 alise: No. 04:46:39 pikhq: Oh. That's such a shame, because XCB is widely-used. 04:46:51 ERROR: Sarcasm stack overflow 04:47:11 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:47:18 There's a *lot* of stuff in X11 that you can completely omit when you don't need to care about things like the network protocol. 04:47:19 Can K opposite be made to work in low-memory setttings, or is Puppy Linux better off? 04:47:37 Knoppix 04:47:54 Though X on localhost generally doesn't; all that communication is done via mmap. 04:47:58 Puppy Linux is better-off. 04:48:02 A pre-Lucid Puppy version. 04:48:04 4. 04:48:16 pikhq: Nobody forwards X11 any more. 04:48:20 What's so bad about Puppy Lucid? 04:48:20 Which is the only reason it is like that. 04:48:24 SgeoN1: Not as snappy. 04:48:42 alise: Well, there's NX. That sees some use. 04:48:48 But eventually, the non Ubuntu based stuff will be epically obsolete 04:49:37 pikhq: NX is also a separate thing, isn't it? 04:49:54 And thus would work fine with microXwin. 04:50:00 SgeoN1: Indeed. 04:50:07 SgeoN1: It isn't now, though. And YOUR LAPTOP is epically obsolete. 04:50:13 No, it takes the X line protocol and transforms it to a much more network-efficient format. 04:50:32 Parted Magic is taking forever :( 04:50:36 Which gets displayed directly on the other end. 04:51:53 When were the last laptops to proudly display "Made for Windows 98"? 04:52:11 pikhq: Then it doesn't matter what X11 library you use. 04:52:12 Probably 99. 04:52:18 Okay, sure, so you need an xlib that does it the boring way. 04:52:21 But you can always install those too. 04:52:39 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:52:43 Well, it also lists NT 04:52:44 alise: Yeah, you just need to make sure that it's got a mundane xlib going. 04:52:50 With dynamic linking, you could just have an NX wrapper program that starts NX if it isn't running, and then uses the normal xlib. 04:53:01 Ok, this is taking forever :( 04:53:23 Actually, you'd have the NX daemon set to start a new session with a linker path to use the normal xlib. 04:53:48 Still; doable. 04:53:56 Maybe the installed Win98 still works 04:54:04 Windows 98 never works! 04:54:15 Stupid rotten IE-integrated piece of monopolistic crap! VIVA 95! 04:54:26 STUPID FUCKING NON-BRIAN-ENO STARTUP SOUND 04:54:36 There's no touchpad. Just nipple mouse 04:54:51 STUPID FUCKING has quick launch and 95 doesn't sniff sniff 04:55:14 I wrote a program to allow TeX to use UTF-8 04:55:31 zzo38: I don't think anyone's done that before. 04:55:31 http://i.imgur.com/IVWeu.jpg 04:55:50 zzo38: If you package it up for LaTeX you could get yourself some fame. 04:55:53 http://sprunge.us/GhCQ http://sprunge.us/LHiW 04:56:31 alise: It is designed for use with Plain TeX. It is not designed for use with LaTeX. (Someone else can package it for LaTeX if they want to, though.) 04:56:44 pikhq: You do it. 04:57:05 :P 04:57:15 I don't think I can connect to the Internet from here 04:57:20 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e7/Windows_98_-_Critical_Update_Notification.png 04:57:24 98, the beginning of UPGRADE FASCISM 04:57:24 It's a noninternet machine 04:57:32 SgeoN1: Plug in a USB wifi stick. 04:57:43 Ooh, those exist? Awesome! 04:57:52 Maybe I should buy one 04:58:19 Umm, yeah. 04:58:20 "A memory overflow issue was resolved which in the older version of Windows 98 would crash most systems if left running for 49.7 days (equal to 2³² milliseconds)[14]." 04:58:27 SgeoN1: Won't work with 98, though. 04:58:27 alise: There's been several ways of getting UTF-8 on TeX. 04:58:28 There is only one USB port on this thing, so if I do that, I can't use a Linux that stores personal files on USB 04:58:33 pikhq: Oh. 04:58:38 alise: Fun fact: TeX is actually character set *agnostic*. 04:58:42 SgeoN1: Incorrect. 04:58:52 SgeoN1: They have space on them for drivers, for one, although perhaps not much. 04:58:56 Ah 04:59:03 alise: The ASCII handling is done in the font. 04:59:09 These drivers are Windows XP drivers and you don't need them, obviously. I think they're read-only, though... maybe not! 04:59:11 SgeoN1: Or: USB hub. 04:59:22 You can get little ones that might not require extra power if you're only using a drive and a wifi stick. 04:59:28 pikhq: Indeed. 04:59:34 pikhq: But UTF-8 has multibyte characters, which is a Bitch. 04:59:43 Also, the commands are ASCII, so it's not really agnostic. 04:59:44 Yeah, but the pain has already been done. 04:59:44 SgeoN1: You can use a Linux loaded everything into RAM and then you can switch the USB and still use it 05:00:23 alise: It is possible in TeX to change all the category codes to make it act like EBCDIC if you wanted to! (Of course it has to start in ASCII mode, though) 05:00:24 Zzo, good point 05:00:33 Pooh, confidential information 05:00:40 From 2000 or so 05:00:59 SgeoN1: You can use a Linux loaded everything into RAM and then you can switch the USB and still use it 05:01:01 that'll disconnect you 05:01:19 Oh, right 05:01:28 Unless it only saves at shutdown 05:01:37 Fedora 14 alpha won't boot on either of my VMs ^_^ 05:01:48 Puppy Linux sounds even more perfect for this 05:02:17 I think it could even be possible to change the category codes in TeX to make it accept commands in baudot encoding! 05:02:58 (Of course, then you still have to put each character in one byte though, so there are three unused bits in every byte) 05:03:24 SgeoN1: you know, it has a hard drive. 05:04:12 In that case, just store all files on the hard drive and don't use the USB to store the files (except when you need to transfer it) 05:05:22 Do you like the codes to make TeX supporting UTF-8 encoding? The codes are available at: http://sprunge.us/GhCQ 05:05:46 Since when does code have a plural? 05:05:55 I'm pretty sure it's a mass noun. Unless you can define what "one code" is... 05:06:54 Perhaps it is, you don't make a perfect exact definition of what "one code" is, except in some documents if you have a specific meaning in mind, you write it down. 05:07:20 I can get Bill Nye: Stop the Rock! to run on this! 05:07:23 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:07:32 Probably 05:08:05 zzo38: That's like saying "I say this glass has 'waters' in it because I could define a water to be .1 mililiters in a document." 05:08:12 Which is a bit ridiculous, as clearly water is a mass noun like code is. 05:08:20 Do you think this code is good? 05:08:47 Yes. 05:09:08 alise: Keep in mind that zzo38 prides himself on having apparently non-native English while being a native speaker. :P 05:09:32 "I'm a native English speaker, but my mother tongue is German." 05:09:48 lol 05:09:51 Ooh, this music is awesome 05:09:52 It is not complete, such as, I have not defined the commands to make it switch from one specific font to the other specific font, and stuff like that. 05:10:03 Any chance that this laptop uses SATA? 05:10:08 It also does not do right to left typing, yet. 05:10:09 SgeoN1: Check. 05:10:14 zzo38: Still. 05:10:22 SgeoN1: It's older than SATA by far. 05:10:23 Ok, how? 05:10:26 Ah 05:10:31 alise: Still? 05:10:44 zzo38: Still, it's good code. 05:10:52 SgeoN1: Model? 05:11:08 Welcome to Computer Essentials, a hands-on introduction to your computee 05:11:20 2529CDT 05:11:28 computee: one who is computed. 05:11:37 I think you typoed. 05:11:40 That gets very few results on Google. 05:13:02 Tutorials for clueless users should not have script errors that they need to respond to 05:13:26 alise: OK. Is it useful to you? You can improve it if you want to. When writing programs in TeX, I figure out more things about TeX, and how to make certain kind of things in TeX, such as the ^\noexpand^ sequence. 05:13:45 I don't use TeX without LaTeX, so it's probably not terribly useful to me, unless it's compatible. 05:14:09 The command ^\noexpand^ is useful when writing to auxiliary files. 05:14:20 http://i.imgur.com/GCylT.jpg 05:14:24 Oops 05:14:32 2595CDT 05:15:06 alise: You can try to see if it is compatible, and/or make it compatible, if you want to. 05:18:04 Alise? 05:18:07 pikhq: #esoteric needs to found a corporation that makes money in some unspecified way so that we can get an unreasonable amount of tech and put it in a place to mess around with. 05:18:10 SgeoN1: What now? 05:18:26 I did miswrite the model 05:18:34 I am aware. 05:19:24 alise: Win. 05:19:38 pikhq: Okay, now you get to figure out how we make the money. HAVE FUN 05:19:55 ....adding machine? 05:20:32 SgeoN1: *what*?! 05:20:59 This tutorial thingy introduced the numeric keypad by comparing it with an adding machine 05:22:29 http://spamusers.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13387 // look at the picture I posted of my cubicle, then the long post after that. 05:22:32 It's so much epic. 05:22:44 Now it's about to talk about the mouse. I'm on a laptop with a nipple mouse. What's the proper term? 05:22:50 clit mouse 05:23:02 coppro++ 05:24:31 -!- coppro has changed nick to copprp. 05:24:41 ;) 05:25:01 "I have something even MORE than coprophilia now, baby. ;)" 05:25:09 ^ How my brain decoded that 05:25:15 lol 05:25:16 Gregor: Wow. 05:25:19 -!- copprp has changed nick to coppro. 05:25:21 Gregor: YOU DIDN'T USE THE Æ LIGATURE WHEN SPELLING DIÆRESIS 05:25:28 alise: I considered it :P 05:25:35 coppro: "...but you know what? Fuck that shit! Let's." 05:26:06 Gregor: hahaha wow @ that long post 05:26:08 Gregor: "Noöne appreciates diæreſis marks." would be epic win. 05:26:23 yeah 05:26:31 Gregor: jvcc is someone who is better at being me than me. 05:26:37 at least with the conjoined ae 05:26:41 That's exactly the kind of stuff I wish I was good at doing :P 05:26:59 (Long, random, depressing, utterly tangential buildings on a hopelessly minor point.) 05:28:15 Gregor: Your dropdown menus overlap the menu title slightly. 05:28:24 Oooooh, found some MIDIs 05:28:27 alise: ? 05:29:08 There appears to be no MIDI thingy... 05:29:17 Gregor: Your music page. 05:29:19 I am omnipotent. 05:29:43 alise: Oh; yes, they do, so? 05:29:57 Gregor: FLAW 05:30:05 alise: Your mom is a flaw. 05:30:25 Also, I have a Lonely Dino submission whose only flaw is featuring the other two pictured characters. 05:30:29 Also they both talk. 05:30:59 lawl :P 05:31:11 WHAT'S SO FUNNY 05:31:18 TeX normally ignores the characters 128 to 255, so that means the UTF-8 BOM will be ignored, and the file will work properly. 05:31:24 http://codu.org/imgs/dinosaurComic.php?panels=2,3&comics=1099,1758&strip 05:31:41 zzo38: the BOM is crappy and nobody uses it 05:31:45 apart from windows 05:32:00 alise: It works without the BOM, too. 05:32:05 it's also meaningless in utf-8 :P 05:33:20 It is just that Windows adds it in, so that means it is not necessary to remove it before sending the file to TeX. The problem is if a UTF-8 file includes another UTF-8 file, because my code utfeight.tex doesn't check for the BOM. 05:35:30 What sort of moron decides to stick it in UTF-8? 05:35:50 UTF-8 BOM is so much lunacy. 05:35:54 Microsoft kind of lunacy. 05:36:07 Ok, done playing for now. Will explore more tomorrow. 05:36:23 the BOM isn't even allowed in UTF-8 IIRC 05:36:37 Dear maximized windows, please don't cover the taskbar 05:37:43 coppro: It's allowed but strongly discouraged. 05:40:25 Ooh, what a beautiful way, to break my heart 05:42:26 One thing about TeX: When reading the input, if two identical characters with category code seven are read, it will either treat the next two characters as a lowercase hex number, or as a character that 64 will be subtracted from. 05:43:02 Whaat? 05:43:06 SgeoN1: xmonad obv 05:43:10 Word 97 is really fast 05:43:47 So, if ^ is category code seven, and it reads ^^7b then it will be exactly the same as typing { in the file. So, this is valid: \def\abc^^7bxyz} 05:44:55 Example: \write0{^\noexpand^7d} 05:45:16 Alise, some song that came with the computer 05:45:18 ow 05:45:31 One thing about TeX: When reading the input, if two identical characters with category code seven are read, it will either treat the next two characters as a lowercase hex number, or as a character that 64 will be subtracted from. 05:45:31 Whaat? 05:45:41 There are other messages to respond to. 05:45:56 Also, I suspected your line was some random song quote since you're prone to them. I had already googled it. 05:46:11 alise: Are you confused? 05:46:27 By your line, yes. 05:46:32 But less so now. 05:46:36 Is it basically trigraphs? 05:47:05 alise: Yes, it is like trigraphs. 05:49:15 The utfeight.tex uses ^\noexpand^ a lot 05:50:08 (That is, it creates trigraphs which are then read in later by TeX) 05:50:49 They are better than the C trigraphs. 05:50:56 Goodnight. 05:50:58 Bye. 05:50:59 -!- alise has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:53:41 // Check if trigraphs are enabled ??/ 05:53:49 #define TRIGRAPHS_ARE_ENABLED 05:54:09 zzo38: That's actually a pretty clever piece of work. 05:56:13 Not a single 05:56:18 pikhq: What are you refering to? The last one? The one before that? The one before before that? 05:56:29 .swf file that I tried on the ancient laptop crashed 05:56:39 Flash didn't crash even once 05:56:46 Compare that to Ubunti 05:56:50 Ubuntu 05:57:55 SgeoN1: with Windows? 05:58:16 Yep. Win98, less than 200mb ram 05:59:16 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 05:59:25 zzo38: The C preprocessor check there. 05:59:42 pikhq: OK 06:00:37 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:01:07 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 06:01:11 Of course, if I don't run something, how can it crash 06:01:25 SgeoN1: your problem there is that Adobe hates Linux 06:01:41 if Adobe hated Windows instead, then it would crash a ton on Windows 06:03:32 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:04:11 Unlike C trigraphs, the TeX trigraphs are actually much more useful. 06:04:51 -!- jcp has joined. 06:07:39 -!- augur has joined. 06:11:21 -!- cal153 has joined. 06:12:34 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 06:15:36 Ah, right, they hire a *single guy* to do the Flash port. 06:52:11 Do you want to win a big spider by playing solitaire cards? The guy at FreeGeek thinks it is a good idea. 06:55:44 I do. Perhaps then people will stop bothering me when I am working in my room (they won't fit, so therefore, they can't bother me) 07:09:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 07:42:05 -!- cheater99 has joined. 07:45:31 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:49:52 I see the most amazing sight beforehand my eyes, and my cameraphone can't capture it 07:51:52 SgeoN1, the Fermat of photography 07:56:16 so (1) is there something physically there (2) if so, is it moving too fast 07:57:04 hm i guess even (1) is ambiguous 07:57:42 oh (3) have you mislaid your cameraphone? ;D 07:58:36 and (4) have you ingested something you shouldn't 07:59:27 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:44 -!- SgeoN1 has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:01:44 Wow, none of my responses got through 08:01:53 It was too dark 08:01:58 And the flash makes it not look as spectacular 08:02:02 Many drops of water on the pool cover reflecting the moonlight 08:02:17 ah 08:02:52 As though it were a nightsky with many, many more stars 08:03:13 -!- augur has joined. 08:03:17 alien sky 08:12:11 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:12:12 -!- Sgeo has joined. 08:12:19 -!- Gracenotes_ has joined. 08:12:24 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes. 08:13:27 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Quit: Bye). 08:15:14 I have tried making scales with G12TET, meaning it is still twelve tone equal temperament, with the same black keys and white keys, the same piano keys, but that the base is not necessarily 2. I have tried 5/2 and 7/3. 08:16:20 zzo38's NIH extends to music? 08:16:27 Sorry, just being silly 08:16:48 Sgeo: What does NIH means? 08:17:01 Not In House 08:17:14 * Sgeo goes to sleep 08:17:26 Which of these scales do you prefer? 08:18:33 I prefer sleeping when I need to sleep 08:18:38 Night -> 08:20:36 OK 08:20:55 Please sleep for exactly 29 and a half hours tonight. 08:22:20 zzo38: actually Not Invented Here 08:25:01 Try the G12TET major scale with base 5/2, base 7/3, and base of natural logarithms. Try other bases, too. You do not have to build a new piano keyboard to play G12TET. 08:32:16 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:33:47 I tried base 5/2, base 7/3, base 11/5, base 13/7 .......... 08:35:12 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 08:37:51 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 08:40:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 08:48:01 -!- cheater99 has joined. 08:53:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:57:08 ALPACA is a CA specifier, not anything more general, yes? 08:58:02 Since I think it should be compilable to Golly's RuleTable format. 09:04:47 i believe so 09:04:50 well 09:04:54 that it's a CA specifier 09:07:03 Right, so it should be equivalent with RuleTable, excluding any complex semantics I haven't noticed. 09:11:49 Ooh, and the RuleTree format can already be compiled into from other languages. 09:12:45 Including Python. 09:16:58 I'll try hand-compiling RedGreen to RuleTable... 09:18:28 Vorpal: give your CPU 1024 general-purpose 64-bit registers because why not <-- well... register file size 09:21:10 Aaaaargh, ALPACA supports nondeterminism. 09:21:17 Why, cpressey, why? 09:23:04 I'll just have guess = true. 09:25:07 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 09:27:56 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 09:28:50 RedGreen is the Mathematica of cellular automata... 09:39:05 Specifying it in RuleTable with no symmetries set is too painful. I'll try Python later on. 09:43:03 Oh god, please don't use Mathematica :( 10:05:18 No, it's only that in the sense that it includes at least 2 other CAs inside it. 10:08:34 Phantom_Hoover, how does that make it like mathematica? 10:09:52 Quadrescence, why not? According to one S. Wolfram it is the best software in the world, including any future ones (except future versions of mathematica)! ;) 10:10:00 It includes everything! 10:10:30 Quadrescence, but Mathematica is the only practical functional programming language! 10:10:38 Vorpal: don't make the artery in my forehead pop 10:10:52 Quadrescence, I was obviously joking :P 10:11:07 i know but Phantom_Hoover is probably like OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH COOOOOOOOL 10:11:18 eh? 10:11:37 and then Phantom_Hoover will buy 10 copies then distribute them 10:11:41 then mma will take over 10:11:44 I doubt it 10:12:00 Quadrescence, whyever not? It's the only usable way of doing concurrent programming 10:12:07 har har 10:12:27 Phantom_Hoover: don't make the artery in my forehead pop!! 10:13:43 Quadrescence, but it has the world's largest web of mathematical capabilities and algorithms! 10:14:09 And immediate integrated access to carefully curated data in diverse areas! 10:14:29 WEB OF [stuff] 10:14:31 CURATED DATA 10:14:36 fun, quoting directly from the manual 10:14:39 those are WOLFRAM'S SLOGANS 10:14:55 Phantom_Hoover, don't forget the section on functional programming, it is the most absurd one 10:14:56 Oh, and don't forget the unique customisability and connectivity powered by symbolic programming! 10:15:03 did I spam my mathematica rant in here yet 10:15:11 Quadrescence, he is obviously joking :P 10:15:17 did I spam my mathematica rant in here yet 10:15:27 Quadrescence, what about the industrial-strength string manipulation! 10:15:31 Quadrescence, perhaps, please use a pastebin 10:15:48 Phantom_Hoover: dear god 10:16:09 With such groundbreaking functions as StringJoin, StringLength and StringSplit! 10:16:28 http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=69 <--- mathematica 10:16:59 Quadrescence, it should be obvious to you that he is being sarcastic. 10:17:15 MY BLOOD STILL BOILS because a lot of ppl think those things are true 10:17:57 heh 10:18:15 OTOH, all of the free CASes aren't very good. 10:18:29 Phantom_Hoover, maxima works quite well for a lot of stuff 10:18:39 and has a less annoying syntax 10:18:56 especially with wxmaxima it is nice to use 10:18:58 Yes, it's basically the best. 10:19:11 Phantom_Hoover, octave is more like mathlab iirc? 10:19:15 It is. 10:19:29 which is iirc more numerical or something like that 10:19:30 It's not actually a CAS; it doesn't do symbolic manipulation AFAIK. 10:19:50 "Long viewed as an important theoretical idea, functional programming finally became truly convenient and practical with the introduction of Mathematica's symbolic language. Treating expressions like f[x] as both symbolic data and the application of a function f provides a uniquely powerful way to integrate structure and function\[LongDash]and an efficient, elegant representation of many common computations. 10:19:51 " 10:19:59 I wish I was making this up. 10:20:43 With such THRILLING DEVELOPMENTS as Map, Apply, MapIndexed, Nest and Fold. 10:20:55 wolfram is batshit insane 10:20:59 Yep. 10:21:09 Ask ais523 about him sometime. 10:21:35 "The symbolic language paradigm of Mathematica takes the concept of variables and functions to a new level." 10:21:46 >_< 10:22:05 Phantom_Hoover: Although having a terrible interface, Axiom is probably the most powerful CAS 10:22:12 Even more than mma or maxima 10:22:17 In Mathematica a variable can not only stand for a value, but can also be used purely symbolically. 10:22:25 Sorry, forgot the quotes. 10:22:35 curated data 10:22:58 They have a little old man making sure noöne goes behind the barriers. 10:23:32 Dear god, how can Mathematica have such a huge ego in its documentation? 10:23:48 wolfram wrote it 10:24:10 *Every section* has some ridiculously grandiose claim as to how it adds things much better than anyone else's product. 10:24:19 Hahaha I know 10:24:53 And then there's the price, which is obviously all going towards the massive cost of keeping such a huge ego up. 10:25:14 "Mathematica provides broad and deep built-in support for both programmatic and interactive modern industrial-strength image processing\[LongDash]fully integrated with Mathematica's powerful mathematical and algorithmic capabilities. Mathematica's unique symbolic architecture and notebook paradigm allows images in visual form to be included and manipulated directly both interactively and in programs." 10:25:33 Translation: you can dump images in the middle of programs and make it look like some kind of weird joke. 10:25:46 hahahahahaha 10:26:18 I love the way the *copy and paste* is egotistical. 10:26:40 Mathematica's markup is far superior to lesser Unicode! 10:26:51 "Mathematica has a highly flexible system for handling dates and times in almost any format, automatically converting between formats, and when necessary parsing strings representing dates. " FFS 10:27:05 "Developed at Wolfram Research over nearly twenty years, Mathematica has by far the world's most sophisticated and convenient mathematical typesetting technology. Generalizing the concept of a computer language to allow 2D input, Mathematica allows both interactive and programmatic entry of arbitrarily complex typeset expressions, with publication-quality layout continuously maintained in real time." 10:27:20 DEVELOPED IN A CAVE FAR IN THE HIMALAYAS FOR MILLENIA 10:27:29 (By monks.) 10:28:03 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:28:35 "Mathematica routinely handles huge arrays of numeric, symbolic, textual or any other data, with any dimension or structure. Arrays are fully integrated into Mathematica's powerful core symbolic language, making possible extremely high-level array operations that are both elegant and efficient. " 10:29:01 "Using a host of original algorithms developed at Wolfram Research, Mathematica provides powerful functions that automate the process of creating cognitively and aesthetically compelling representations of structured and unstructured data\[LongDash]not only for points, lines and surfaces, but also for graphs and networks." 10:29:21 hahaha 10:29:30 Evidently, they have someone employed for the sole purpose of writing their documentation in the most over-the-top way possible. 10:29:52 [aka wolfram since he doesn't do anything else] 10:29:57 A New Kind of Documentation 10:30:53 * Phantom_Hoover → stuff 10:31:19 XD 10:42:50 "Mathematica has the most extensive collection of mathematical functions ever assembled. Often relying on original results and algorithms developed at Wolfram Research over the past two decades, each function supports a full range of symbolic operations, as well as efficient numerical evaluation to arbitrary precision, for all complex values of parameters. " 10:44:19 Mathematica provides a uniquely integrated and automated environment for parallel computing. With zero configuration, full interactivity and seamless local and network operation, the symbolic character of the Mathematica language allows immediate support of a variety of existing and new parallel programming paradigms and data-sharing models. 10:44:20 -!- cheater99 has joined. 10:44:36 I'll keep on doing this forever, so I shall go now. 10:44:53 hmm, someone said something to me past the scrollback 10:46:02 oh, it was just Vorpal amusing himself with the word "CD-skva" 10:48:23 olsner, indeed 11:02:57 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself). 11:14:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:19:15 CD-squeek. 11:19:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:34:34 fizzie, eh? 11:35:09 Oh, nothing; just some free-flow associating from "CD-skva". 11:35:11 oh btw, why does RAM has to be such a pain when it comes to getting the right type? I mean, for harddrives it is basically SATA or PATA. If you have the right type it will work, maybe not at optimal speed, but it will work. 11:35:36 for RAM you seem to need to match speed, the number after DDR and so on 11:37:59 The number after DDR, sure, but I don't know about matching speed; I haven't had any problems using sticks at less-than-rated speeds. 11:38:07 hm 11:38:14 fizzie, also the connector type 11:38:24 laptop sized vs. desktop sized 11:38:47 Yes, well, that should be pretty obvious. 11:38:47 a laptop harddrive will work in a desktop, just you have to find some way to mount it 11:38:52 the connectors are the same 11:39:35 They use a different connector in 2.5" IDE drives than desktop-sized ones; one that has power in it. 11:39:53 fizzie, hm okay, for sata it looks the same though? 11:40:04 SATA fortunately uses the same. 11:40:12 But it's smaller anyway. 11:40:18 true 11:40:59 They do have a mini-SATA too, but I've never seen one live anywhere. 11:41:19 hm 11:41:38 fizzie, CPUs are even worse, due to the proliferation of different sockets. 11:42:51 1.8" SSD drives widely use something called micro-SATA, it seems. 11:43:33 Anyway, for HDs it's usually easy to find adapters, as long as you're installing the disk into a bigger slot than it needs. 11:43:37 1.8"? 11:43:46 fizzie, and indeed 11:43:53 The next size down from 2.5". 11:44:05 fizzie, what the fuck do you find that in= 11:44:07 s/=/?/ 11:44:47 Small netbooks, maybe? I don't know, but they sell those anyway. 11:45:27 (There have been 1.8" IDE drives for quite a while, too.) 11:46:27 heh 11:47:59 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:50:19 There's a (DDR) SO-DIMM to DIMM adapter, but it seems to be designed for testing SO-DIMMs with a memory chip tester, not for actual use in a computer: http://www.memorytesters.com/ramcheck/rc200conv.htm 11:50:46 fizzie, they should make 1 TB drives the size of compact flash cards. 11:51:04 hm... now to chose the name of the laptop 11:51:39 I have phoenix and dragon currently. Need something along the same theme. And not kraken (since that means something else in Swedish) 11:51:46 fizzie, any suggestions? 11:52:31 pegasus maybe? 11:52:56 Vorpal: The CF spec only goes up to 128 GB (28-bit LBA addressing), so... 11:53:11 ouch 11:53:18 Pegasus sounds appropriate for a laptop. 11:54:08 fizzie, hm, that would fit with dragon also being a laptop, but then phoenix is an old dell tower (one of those with strange PSU connector) 11:56:19 NetHack's monster db is a good source for names; mooz used to pick names from there. (He had at least zruty, tengu and couatl.) 11:56:52 fizzie, that lacks phoenix though 11:57:18 fizzie, hm woodchuck. But well I went for pegasus already 12:00:05 grep -B 5 M1_FLY monst.c | grep 'MON(' | cut -c 10- | sed -e 's/".*//' => http://p.zem.fi/3n9j -- everything that flies. 12:00:39 fizzie, my theme was not "flies" but "impressive/awesome mythological creates" 12:00:53 Like woodchuck?-) 12:00:58 fizzie, that everything so far flies is just pure coincidence 12:01:01 fizzie, that was a joke :P 12:02:51 fizzie, hm does lucid use grub2 or grub1? 12:03:47 2, I think. 12:04:07 Not completely sure though. 12:04:30 (I tried gobolinux, couldn't get it working on usb stick, and no cd-r around) 12:06:01 Maverick's due out in 15 days. 12:06:08 fizzie, going for LTS :P 12:06:47 It's probably going to be buggy at lauch anyway. 12:07:42 Especially since they want it out on 10/10/10 no matter what shape it's in. :p 12:22:18 -!- tombom has joined. 12:42:44 fizzie, um why? 12:49:13 -!- cheater99 has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 12:53:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:09:10 -!- cheater99 has joined. 13:16:26 Vorpal: Because it's "the perfect ten". 13:16:29 (Or so I heard.) 13:21:05 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 13:23:22 -!- Harpyon has joined. 13:23:41 -!- Harpyon has quit (Client Quit). 13:24:18 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:31:45 fizzie, how stupid 13:33:32 Well, they have that "time-based releases" thing anyway, so it's just a matter of scheduling it to that particular day. 13:34:12 It's also a HHGTTG reference, since 0b101010 == 42. 13:34:31 Cf. https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/2010-May/003987.html 13:36:18 Also, Natty Narwhal will focus on making Ubuntu look prettier. :p 13:36:28 -!- Harpyon has joined. 13:36:33 (I'm not sure what Maverick focuses on, except that there's some netbookery going on.) 13:40:09 -!- alise has joined. 13:42:34 Does anyone know if Python has a builtin to compute the number of instances of x in an array? 13:43:08 There's a count() method. 13:43:19 >>> [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4].count(2) 13:43:20 3 13:44:08 -!- sovereign2011 has joined. 13:44:42 Did we have a python? 13:44:47 !python 42 13:44:53 !python print 42 13:45:00 Or was it a HackEgo thing? 13:45:03 `python print 42 13:45:15 No output. 13:45:33 I guess it wouldn't be a HackEgo thing. 13:45:59 !help languages 13:46:00 languages: Esoteric: 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf8 bf16 bf32 boolfuck cintercal clcintercal dimensifuck glass glypho haskell kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl. Competitive: bfjoust fyb. Other: asm c cxx forth sh. 13:46:03 -!- sovereign2011 has left (?). 13:46:09 Oh, so there's just Perl. I guess python's not esoteric enough. 13:46:30 What? Have you seen what you can do with some lambdas and no remorse? 13:46:42 Anyway, I was trying to say that you could also do a list comprehension and len, as in len([x for x in [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4] if x == 2]) 13:47:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbJ-y6BWfUc this is awesome 13:47:19 Or sum(1 if x == 2 else 0 for x in [1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4]) to avoid an intermediate list. 13:48:49 Well, the count method should be enough. 13:49:10 alise, compiling ALPACA into one of Golly's formats: worthwhile? 13:49:45 Sure? 13:50:04 Phantom_Hoover: I'm sure you could add it as a new format. 13:51:15 Coding the ALPACA algorithm into Golly by myself? In C++? 13:51:18 No thankyou. 13:51:29 And compiling it to RuleTree should be enough. 13:54:32 Different classifiers, different results: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoconfnf.png → http://zem.fi/~fis/confsvmc.png except that the horrible octave-nnet took an hour to test the first one, whereas the latter happened in about seven seconds of scipy/numpy/mlpy.svm/matplotlib. 13:54:52 Octave-nnet? 13:55:41 Hey, why can't I be on the recognition list? 13:55:46 nobody likes you 13:55:56 fizzie: are you merging ihope with Warrigal, uorygl, kerlo, ...? :P 14:03:29 Phantom_Hoover: octave-nnet is octave-forge's neural networking thingie; it's rather horrible. 14:05:33 Phantom_Hoover: You may not have talked enough; 20000 comments is a minimum for that particular list. You seem to have 13851 at the moment. 14:05:50 Or a bit more, I haven't ran updatedb in a while. 14:06:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:06:36 Also, leaving like that in the middle of my comments isn't winning you any points! 14:13:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:14:05 fizzie, sorry 14:14:31 Octave-forge? 14:18:35 A collection of add-on stuff for Octave. 14:18:44 I think they picked the name to resemble sourceforge. 14:18:55 Ah. 14:24:21 [[A multidimensional language, where the program is a set of points in Rn and a function which maps these points onto Rm; this process then repeats with the new program and a new function on Rm. Maybe it could be called something like Projection or Linear Map (although these may be too normal/restrictive, in which case Morphism?).]] 14:24:24 Good luck computing that! 14:24:35 Rx being R^x ther. 14:24:37 *there. 14:30:39 -!- FredrIQ has joined. 14:34:04 http://www.linusakesson.net/programming/symlinks/index.php ← neat 14:34:36 hee, i forgot about that thing 14:38:39 woot, apparently the Neverhood works perfectly in WINE 14:41:27 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:41:59 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 15:00:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:16:27 I hope I have a 75 MHz Pentium processor, 8 megs of RAM -- or preferably 16, 1 meg of video ram, an SVGA monitor, a quad speed CD-ROM, 8-bit sound card and speakers or preferably 16-bit, and 10 megs of hard disk to store it. 15:16:29 Also, Windows 95. 15:20:32 :) 15:22:44 *sniff* Looks like I'll have to contact my retailer for an upgrade. 15:24:38 Now why doesn't Ubuntu mount this ISO properly? 15:25:00 Well, "mount", it's actually trying to use gvfs to view it as a virtually "mounted" acrhive. 15:25:09 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:25:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:26:29 Awesome. PS3 jailbreak ported to Rockbox. 15:28:49 And... The PS3 controller? 15:30:13 Noticed that thing in the Maemo repositories a while ago. 15:30:43 (By "that thing" I mean the jailbreak itself, not those two ports, of course.) 15:33:02 Awesome. PS3 jailbreak ported to Rockbox. 15:33:03 wat 15:34:14 pikhq: Why don't ordinary users have mounting powers on Linux? At least loopback mounting. 15:36:34 Could hypothetically mount a filesystem that's got /dev/kmem with them having access. 15:36:46 pikhq: From a loopback file? 15:36:50 Yes. 15:37:18 pikhq: what 15:37:21 Any filesystem could have the required inode. 15:37:25 lulz 15:37:31 pikhq: okay, new question 15:37:36 why is mounting so badly designed? 15:37:42 Because hell if I know. 15:38:10 Warning 15:38:13 ------------------------------------ 15:38:17 This program requires Windows 95 to run. 15:38:20 [OK] 15:38:21 ------------------------------------ 15:38:23 and it doesn't install :) 15:38:27 time to tell wine to be windows 95 15:38:51 groan, i'm going to have to NoCD hack an ISO 15:40:26 checking for directx 3.0! 15:40:34 -!- Wamanuz3 has joined. 15:40:38 now it wants to restart windows 15:40:58 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:41:51 pikhq: 640x400, resolution of kings! 15:43:31 Yeah, square pixels are so... square, after all. 15:43:48 Ookayyy, that didn't work so well. 15:55:23 Sound in WINE doesn't appear to work at all. 16:04:33 MusicBrainz Picard is so great for fixing dumb tags. 16:08:20 Okay, the Neverhood now works, but without sound. I believe this to be because WINE is failing at sound altogether. 16:08:43 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:09:38 00:57:08 ALPACA is a CA specifier, not anything more general, yes? 16:09:41 00:58:02 Since I think it should be compilable to Golly's RuleTable format. 16:10:54 Beats manually tagging 33 gigs of music. 16:11:41 i did at one time ponder a language "ALPA" in which ALPACA would be a DSL simply by loading a library 16:11:52 heh 16:14:53 some features i vaguely recall: if a word identifier didn't exist, it would look it up as a sequence of single letter identifiers (allowing nw and se e.g. to just be a sequence of them) 16:16:13 and there would be macro definitions which could take arguments that could be either words, sequences of words, or bracketed sequences of stuff, iirc, so that ALPACA's commands could be defined simply as macros or so 16:17:52 well "words" could also be bracketed things, i think. oh it may not have been bracketed but line separated for the third argument form 16:18:18 * oerjan is currently vague on ALPACA as well 16:22:30 there was also some automatic conversion between objects, methods and functions with basic ALPACA command ending up interpreted as chains of methods 16:22:39 *commands 16:26:33 gravity is melting 16:27:00 it seemed to be approaching some kind of (possibly) purely functional object-oriented language 16:28:12 alise: NEWS FLASH! GLOBAL WARMING WILL CAUSE US ALL TO FALL OFF EARTH 16:30:34 incidentally this would iirc make ALPA(CA) handle neighborhoods larger than moore by just using designations such as nnw (being automatically split into a chain of n n w) 16:32:10 oerjan: I must confess I don't quite see the link between global warming and ALPACA. 16:32:30 fizzie: um you'll have to ask alise about that interlude 16:33:09 that was merely my OBVIOUS INTERPRETATION of his statement 16:34:05 of course climate simulations are _obviously_ just giant CAs, anyway 16:35:05 Aaaaargh, ALPACA supports nondeterminism. 16:35:14 hm that might mess with the pure functionality 16:42:27 http://zem.fi/~fis/eso2009.avi -- the channel in 2009. (It's just 333 plots concatenated together, so changes in colors, legend layout, y-axis scaling and such make it a flickery sight; still.) 16:45:02 it dances 16:45:16 fizzie: now do it for all previous years, and make it go much faster 16:45:22 a fiery spectacle of delight 16:45:25 fizzie: also, for the galaxies 16:45:26 watch the cosmos unfold 16:54:07 fizzie: the big bang of the channel would be fun to watch, but i don't think anyone has logs of the first days 16:54:19 except maybe andreou or lament :P 16:56:00 I'd like to see 2005 16:56:35 I love how I'm competing for the #5 spot with EgoBot :P 16:56:53 And then in September alise just goes "fuck sleeping" 16:56:57 :-D 16:57:56 Wow, Wine takes like five years to build. 16:58:24 -!- FredrIQ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:59:49 Dear god, Apple have gone even further in their quest codenamed "Make iTunes As Little Like What Actual Mac OS X Applications Actually Look Like As Possible, Even On OS X". 17:00:12 Specifically, the close/hide/maximise buttons are now *placed vertically*. 17:00:16 Why? Because fuck you, this is iTunes! 17:07:57 That's ... very unapple. 17:09:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:10:27 Sine YouTube comment: "Not 100% sold on the show, but I am 100% sold on the music." 17:11:37 Gregor: No, fucking up iTunes in this way is very Apple. 17:11:51 They have been doing it since iTunes first existed -- the brushed metal interface, not present in Mac OS 9. 17:11:56 Or was it 8 or 8.5 it came out for? I forget. 17:19:18 i wonder why old thinkpads are so awesome 17:19:25 Sgeo: ? 17:19:46 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDYse9RE0QU 17:20:29 what's that got to do with sine? 17:20:39 agreed with the comment about the dig there 17:20:51 actually the dig needs made into a movie, badly 17:20:59 well, it was meant to be, spielberg :P 17:21:18 I typoed 17:21:25 It should have been "Some" 17:23:58 * Sgeo sets up timestamps 17:24:03 and here i tried googling Sine to see if it was some kind of famous band or something 17:24:25 oerjan: you could say you went off on a bit of a tangent 17:24:30 * alise braces for swatting 17:24:42 Ah, nice, simple, 12-hour time 17:24:52 Sgeo: you are joking yes 17:25:01 i even had to set google to give english results only because "sine" is a very common norwegian pronoun (the plural form of that reflexive possessive i mentioned the other day) 17:25:14 * oerjan obliges -----### 17:25:20 poor obliges 17:25:24 getting swatted for no reason like that 17:25:35 alise, I'm very used to 12-hour time 17:25:36 * oerjan alise -----### 17:25:48 i will never fathom the stupidity that is america 17:26:32 i saw this nice oscar wilde quote in the newspaper today, let me google the english original 17:26:54 Wine is still compiling; how?! 17:27:05 "America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." 17:29:25 "HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL" --Oscar Wilde 17:29:30 12 hours should be enough for everyone 17:29:49 alise: i have a hunch that's an uncyclopedia claimed quote 17:30:12 HUGLAGHALGHALGHAL, interj. 17:30:12 An all-purpose sound, denoting the act of performing oral sex, the act of receiving oral sex, taking drugs, writing your Congressman, misdialing your party and getting that annoying series of tones, or sitting perfectly still and making no noise whatsoever. 17:30:13 http://www.jerkcity.com/glossary.html 17:30:30 although, admittedly, I'm pretty sure it's only ever been used to denote the first... 17:30:46 either that or Oscar Wilde wrote to his Congressman at one point, which is entirely possible 17:30:52 fizzie: /~fis/ must be so huge. <-- "ls | wc -l" 548, "du -hs" 4.3G 17:31:00 fizzie: only 548? 17:31:01 alise: i found that too, then added "wilde" and confirmed my hunch 17:31:10 but you've linked to like 549 things in there! 17:31:26 oerjan: oh, someone actually did make that fakequote 17:31:28 on a user page 17:31:34 whatever 17:31:38 alise: It's been wiped out every now and then, though. 17:31:56 Based on timestamps, though, this current has been it since 2007-10-22. 17:32:51 alise: given that oscar wilde was irish, i find it unlikely he wrote his congressman 17:33:04 YOU DON'T KNOW THAT 17:33:15 fizzie: we totally need the output of ls to verify. 17:33:25 i have a feeling you're FABRICATING 17:33:27 But, but, but! Private stuff! 17:33:28 especially given his attitude to america. although maybe that was what gave him his attitude. 17:33:28 -!- nooga has joined. 17:33:32 aaaaah 17:33:34 boredom aaah 17:33:36 fizzie: "All that private stuff, that I put on my public HTTP server." 17:34:08 nooga: eat fish 17:34:46 make[1]: *** [depend] Error 1 17:34:48 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 17:36:28 * alise fixes 17:36:32 alise: haha, you failed 17:36:34 why fish? 17:36:41 nooga: WHY NOT 17:36:43 WHY NOT FISH 17:36:47 why yes? 17:36:49 olsner: building wine is a *bitch!* 17:36:52 nooga: WHY NOND 17:37:00 why nand 17:39:19 WHY NORK 17:40:05 eat cork 17:40:07 ha! 17:40:26 fish is an important part of a complete breakfast 17:40:57 alise: Here you go: http://zem.fi/~fis/eso2004-2009.avi -- more years, more speed. 17:41:44 fizzie: Way insufficient speed. 17:41:55 I want the whole channel to go by in 15 seconds or less! 17:41:56 :P 17:42:07 fizzie: you didn't merge zuff into alise 17:42:11 you racist 17:42:21 My mergings are insufficient, that's true. 17:42:42 oerjan: maybe in norway 17:42:43 lol, the wine people don't seem to have found -fshort-wchar 17:42:45 fizzie: now do it again but with the wonderful galaxy cosmoses :P 17:42:57 Big Bang to present day 17:43:01 olsner: ? 17:43:47 olsner: That's weird since the man page specifies that it's FOR wine :P 17:44:34 * oerjan was actually alluding to http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdjacentToThisCompleteBreakfast 17:44:41 heh, but their coding conventions explicitly say that you have to create an array of WCHAR for every string :) 17:45:30 Wine build complete. 17:45:31 FUCK YEAH 17:46:54 SIGSEGV 17:47:15 SIGHEIL 17:47:29 whoa 17:47:44 i just found an interesting photo of my flatmate ;f 17:48:28 nooga: Before ... the operation? 17:48:45 before the tragic incident 17:48:55 or perhaps, just after 17:49:01 During 17:49:01 nah 17:49:16 enduring 17:49:33 it's like she's wearing wermacht's uniform and sits on a retro bike 17:49:35 Building Debian package... FAILED! 17:49:55 Gregor: "The operation... that turned me from a duck... into a human." 17:50:01 dpkg-deb - error: (upstream) version (`git') doesn't contain any digits 17:50:03 Fuck you too! 17:50:34 It's now git-1. :P 17:52:46 O_O 17:53:33 nooga: what 17:54:17 nthn 17:55:05 -!- oerjan has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:56:37 lol by upgrading wine i broke it 17:58:25 http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firebird/nightly/2003/07/2003-07-22-21-1.5a/MozillaFirebird-i686-pc-linux-gnu.tar.gz 17:58:29 Old browser ... is old. 17:59:39 ./MozillaFirebird-bin: error while loading shared libraries: libgtk-1.2.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory 17:59:49 -!- oerjan has joined. 17:59:49 There's a more recent build using gtk2 and xft though. :^) 18:00:11 grmble the sprocket server is much more unstable than hagbart was :( 18:02:09 and now it inexplicably works perfectly 18:02:50 Not sure how to scale the 640x400 to something more my-screen-sized, though. 18:02:57 Anyone any good at using Wine? :P 18:03:41 I don't think it has any screen scalers built-in. 18:04:24 Can you use one with it, though? 18:04:49 Also, is there anything in Wine that can relieve the terror caused by a game's sky being designed to be pitch black, even though the rest of it is cheerful claymation? 18:04:50 alise, hm I just found out that that old dell has IR built in. 18:04:58 shows it as COM2 18:05:04 It is... disturbing. 18:05:10 ("Dear Kleymen, 18:05:15 Please feed my pet flytrap. He eats ring-food. 18:05:17 I do not. 18:05:20 Love Willie") 18:05:29 Funnier with the blank lines in-between. :P 18:05:37 *Klaymen 18:05:37 alise, what game is this? 18:05:42 Vorpal: The Neverhood. 18:05:46 neverhood was awesome 18:05:51 alise, mhm, genre? 18:05:53 A wonderful clay stop-motion point-and-click adventure game. 18:05:57 Brilliant music. 18:05:59 ah 18:06:04 Woot, sound broke 18:06:21 Vorpal: even the menus are clay :) 18:07:07 alise, screenshot 18:07:13 Of the clay menus? 18:07:29 yeah 18:07:56 Vorpal: http://imgur.com/fIEOe.png 18:09:01 There's that old zxoom tool that can scale any defined part of the X screen, but it might not exactly be fast. Maybe some of the compositing video managers could "natively" scale a window, though? It shouldn't be a very difficult task. 18:09:08 xzoom, not zxoom. 18:09:24 huh 18:09:28 I also want it fullscreened and with pillarboxes to the left and right. :P 18:09:29 Or, wait. 18:09:32 Is 640x400 16:9? 18:09:52 No. 18:11:11 It's 16:10 in theory, though I guess the game might actually be designed for non-square pixels so that the screen's aspect ratio is the usual 4:3? 18:11:18 alise, hm battery in that dell is sucky, only charges to about 75% 18:11:20 That's what I recall 640x400 modes usually being. 18:11:23 Now the audio is broken! 18:11:28 fizzie: Perhaps. It looks fine windowed in a squrae-pixel display. 18:11:29 of rated capacity 18:11:31 So I doubt it. 18:11:39 This is circa 1996, Windows game. 18:11:57 -!- iGO has joined. 18:12:42 very uneven charging too 18:12:51 Note to past self: Just make a 95 VM to play this already. 18:13:26 Yes, but all CRT monitors tend to be 4:3, and if you change the resolution to 640x400, what you usually end up is a fullscreen view with unsquare pixels, not something letterboxed. 18:13:42 Though if it's supposed to be run in a window, then not. 18:13:44 fizzie: But it looks fine in square-pixel form. 18:13:47 It isn't supposed to be run like that. 18:13:51 But it looks perfectly decent. 18:14:43 Well, anyway; another way to scale it would be x11vnc; you could export the part of the desktop that has the game, then use x11vnc's "server"-side scaling and any VNC client. Probably equally silly as xzoom. 18:14:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 18:15:02 WTF 18:15:04 I buy stuff 18:15:06 I go home 18:15:10 I put it down somewhere 18:15:13 I take the dog out 18:15:15 I come back 18:15:19 I talk with 18:15:20 lots of lines 18:15:23 It is GONE 18:15:23 I have not the foggiest idea where my stuff is 18:15:24 to dramaticise 18:15:28 *dramatise 18:15:28 a perfectly 18:15:29 mundane 18:15:30 every 18:15:30 day 18:15:32 event 18:15:32 on 18:15:33 IRC 18:15:40 THIS 18:15:42 IS 18:15:44 SPARTA 18:15:45 IRC 18:15:47 darn 18:16:01 oh here we are being all funny and stuff 18:16:11 olsner, 18:16:13 the 18:16:15 lack 18:16:18 of 18:16:20 lines 18:16:22 in 18:16:23 o 18:16:23 your 18:16:23 l 18:16:24 s 18:16:24 n 18:16:24 post 18:16:24 e 18:16:25 r 18:16:26 18:16:28 w 18:16:28 Sgeo did it better anyway, each line was a sentence 18:16:29 detracts 18:16:30 e 18:16:30 from 18:16:31 the 18:16:31 a 18:16:33 drama 18:16:33 r 18:16:35 e 18:16:38 18:16:38 and they all started with "I " 18:16:40 t 18:16:40 t 18:16:40 h 18:16:42 o 18:16:44 18:16:46 t 18:16:48 a 18:16:50 l 18:16:52 l 18:16:54 y 18:16:56 18:16:58 h 18:17:00 i 18:17:02 l 18:17:04 a 18:17:06 rious. 18:17:10 I have a dog 18:17:15 "We are to tally hilarious." 18:17:17 I bought chocolates, which are in the bag 18:17:24 How does one tally hilarious? 18:17:50 Phantom_Hoover: *Weare to tally hilarious. 18:18:10 Who's Weare? 18:19:01 Heh, someone's actually done the scaling with Xephyr + x11vnc + vncviewer: http://tfischernet.wordpress.com/2009/02/14/enlarge-fullscreen-programs-in-wine/ 18:19:15 One of the comments mention a compiz plugin for screen-zoomery, though. That sort of thing sounds a lot more sensible. 18:19:27 Found it! 18:19:31 Phantom_Hoover: see my comments on generalizing ALPACA in the logs 18:20:02 Sgeo is trying to poison his dog 18:21:27 Actually, since ALPACA supports nondeterminism, it doesn't specify CAs. 18:21:42 Since a CA is deterministic by definition. 18:30:03 alise: Tested this in stock Gnome-Ubuntu: apparently all you need to do is to make sure compiz is on (System/Preferences/Appearance/Visual Effects > None) and put some keys into System/Preferences/Keyboard Shortcuts/Desktop/Zoom {In,Out} -- then you can zoomity-zoom closer to the Wine window. Unfortunately it will then sort-of keep the view centered to the mouse cursor, which is probably sucktastic for what you want. 18:32:38 fizzie: Apparently you can fix the mouse cursor into the area. 18:32:52 fizzie: I'm doing it in VirtualBox now, anyway (in my hybrid Windows 2000/NT 4 monstrosity). 18:33:04 Latest Wine is unreliable as fuck. 18:33:41 Great, VirtualBox is too laggy. 18:34:06 for the cutscenes 18:34:21 alise: It amazes me that there aren't 12cm magneto-optical discs being made. 18:34:29 XD 18:34:33 Hueg floppy 18:34:40 You could try the old-fashioned way of making your display resolution lower. 18:34:51 fizzie: Yeaaaah, not on an LCD. 18:34:55 Bluray-RW! 18:34:56 :P 18:35:38 It's going to be messily scaled *anyway*. 18:35:50 fizzie: No; I just want it to scale up squarely. 18:36:04 I can deal with slight letter/pillarboxing; just not a tiny game. 18:36:44 Just scale the screen resolution to something with the right aspect ratio but something where the game window is not too tiny? 18:36:51 alise, 2000/NT? 18:37:04 fizzie: Problem is that common LCDs do not keep aspect ratio when scaling. 18:37:15 Sgeo: Windows 2000, with NT's explorer.exe and shell32.dll hacked in. 18:37:15 They, instead, just assume that you would OF COURSE want 640x480 at 16:10. 18:37:22 (who the hell wants that anyways?) 18:37:36 Hmm. Why? 18:37:53 And hacked how? Just dropping NT's stuff in? 18:37:57 Or was there more? 18:38:16 Sgeo: Why -- to make IE completely removable and to get a more usable file management interface. 18:38:25 How -- admittedly, someone else did Most of the Work. 18:38:28 pikhq: That's not a problem: you just scale the desktop resolution to something 16:10 with a close-enough height, and let the screen scale that. 18:38:35 Extract explorer.exe and shell32.dll from NT 4 update 6. 18:38:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:44 Hex edit explorer.exe; change shell32.dll to shell32.nt4 everywhere. 18:38:48 Rename shell32.dll to shell32.nt4. 18:38:59 Put shell32.nt4 in C:\WINNT on the 2000 machine. 18:39:07 Uh, or maybe in system32. 18:39:08 Whatever. 18:39:14 Replace C:\WINNT\explorer.exe with the NT4 version. 18:39:26 Remember to subvert Windows File Protection and various other in-use safeguards when doing the above. 18:39:29 Restart. 18:39:31 Enjoy the bugginess. 18:41:07 Hmm. If I were more inclined to do Win32 programming, I'd just write an Explorer clone that'd work unbuggily on Win2k. 18:41:21 pikhq: ITT: ReactOS 18:41:35 * Sgeo wants to use ReactOS someday 18:41:46 "If this post reaches the front page, I will stream video games one a night for a month to raise money for Child's Play." --reddit 18:41:50 How horrific that will be for you. 18:41:53 Maybe in 2 decades, when it's somewhat working 18:42:01 Sgeo: Actually wanting to use ReactOS is a sign of idiocy. 18:42:12 ...thinking that ReactOS will still be relevant in twenty years is a sign of I have no freaking idea. 18:42:25 You'll be over forty, by the way. 18:42:53 ReactOS is *somewhat* working now. 18:42:58 How old is WINE? 18:43:03 Mostly courtesy of WINE having done most of the hard work. 18:43:06 Sgeo: About 15 years. 18:43:09 Indeed 18:43:23 Sorry, 17 years. 18:44:48 * Sgeo ignores Ubuntu's warning about restricted use 18:45:55 And as punishment, I am hit with hellish lag 18:50:35 OH CRAP 18:51:25 OH GOD 18:51:48 pikhq: I hereby command you with using QEMU to get a working NT 4 system on a non-x86 architecure. 18:52:03 *architecture 18:55:12 Windows 3.1 found a niche market as an embedded operating system after becoming obsolete in the PC world. Up until November 2008, both Virgin Atlantic and Qantas employed it for some of the onboard entertainment systems on long-distance jets. It also sees continued use as an embedded OS in retail cash tills[13]. 18:57:58 Yup 18:58:02 * pikhq wishes to have money 18:58:08 alise: I've tried to do that before. 18:58:10 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 18:58:20 Gregor: Failure/ 18:58:22 *Failure? 18:58:23 alise: I haven't managed to get non-x86-NT working in any emulator :( 18:58:27 WELL THEN 18:58:45 Gregor: Whuzza point, though? It's just going to be a souped-up DOS with servers. 18:58:48 Useless servers. 18:58:49 It'd be nice to, say, have more hard drive space and a better graphics card. 18:58:50 No GUI :( 18:58:59 (I'm currently using an on-board GPU) 18:59:06 alise: #1 reason would be to prove to you that your "no-GUI" claim is wrong :P 18:59:14 Gregor: It is not. But okay, let's try. 18:59:20 Gregor: Pick an architecture. I will pick another. 18:59:29 I call MIPS. 18:59:31 alise: Multitasking makes it a bit more than "souped-up". 18:59:46 Likewise with memory protection. 18:59:46 pikhq: I have a fair amount of money (well, as far as computer hardware goes), but you can't have it unless you do something really awesome. 18:59:51 Gregor: Hmm. 18:59:56 Would you prefer I tried Alpha or PowerPC? 19:00:02 You're trying to maximise the changes of GUI here, remember. 19:00:08 Alpha would be more compelling, PowerPC more likely to work. 19:00:13 Is it even possible to still buy Win3.1? 19:00:19 alise: Awesome? Okay. 2 Xeons in a box. 19:00:20 alise: Frankly I think you won't get either of them working :P 19:00:20 :P 19:00:27 Sgeo: I'm sure if you've got enough money it is. 19:00:28 Oooor 8 Opterons. 19:00:43 pikhq: Nonono, something awesome that isn't related to the money you get. 19:00:48 Sgeo: Yes; MSDN account. 19:00:54 pikhq: That's not buying. 19:00:58 That's free. 19:01:08 Gregor: Which is more likely to have a GUI, in your opinion? 19:01:10 alise: You pay for the MSDN account. 19:01:14 Assume I am a magic making-it-work person. 19:01:15 alise: PowerPC 19:01:16 Hmm 19:01:22 alise: Y'know, the one that gives you access to all Windows. 19:01:26 What does MSDN account give you, besides free Win... ah 19:01:29 o.O 19:01:40 Gregor: Okay; you get a MIPS version, I'll get PowerPC. 19:01:47 Sgeo: Also most of their dev stuff. 19:01:47 Any method acceptable, including actually buying real hardware. 19:01:55 alise: 3.5 shipped with all the versions on the disk, does 4 not¿ 19:01:57 *? 19:01:59 The challenge ends when either one of us gets it working, or one of us dies. 19:02:02 Gregor: Well, yes, it does. 19:02:11 (by "most" I mean "most *versions*". You'll probably miss out on Microsoft BASIC for the Altair.) 19:02:17 Gregor: I recommend we use a non-updated copy. 19:02:23 Who knows if the updates like the other architectures or not? 19:02:27 alise: Got one? :P 19:02:33 Gregor: http://www.torrentz.com/45866c5c7f7e94c7abfc644a869d8d8d27ed875e 19:02:36 Gregor: It's small, too. 19:02:56 Serial key on the http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/3632026 link; will go faster if you paste the other trackers in. 19:03:06 Hm, wait. 19:03:07 No seeders. 19:03:17 Gregor: Are the updated copies likely to work with the other archs...? 19:03:29 alise: No clue. 19:03:34 alise: http://vetusware.com/download/Windows%20NT%20Server%204/?id=3438 19:03:43 Fetusware. 19:03:46 Gregor: that's the server version 19:03:51 alise: So? 19:03:52 less likely to have the gui on other archs if you ask me 19:03:56 perhaps i'm wrong 19:04:04 also, it's a .rar, and I doubt it has an .iso inside 19:04:10 also it wants me to register 19:04:21 It probably does, but I'll check. Vetusware is well worth registering :P 19:04:45 Good News 19:04:45 Please check your email for your account password. 19:04:48 Fuckkk that shit 19:04:50 alise: http://www.typewritten.org/Media/Images/winnt-4.0-ppc-new.install.png 19:04:58 I can pick my own goddamn p-- 19:05:01 Yeah, that's NT 4 on a PowerPC. 19:05:04 pikhq: You have damaged the sanctity of the contest. 19:05:08 Talk no more. 19:05:09 :P 19:05:12 That image is photoshopped. 19:05:16 I refuse to say a word. 19:05:17 lawl 19:05:19 Gregor: Meanwhile, 19:05:28 Gregor: Still wanna do MIPS, or Alpha? 19:05:34 Maybe those don't have GUIs. 19:05:37 alise: That said, you will be totally awesome if you get it actually running. 19:05:39 MIPS. And it will have a GUI :P 19:05:44 Gregor: Alright then. 19:05:47 I'll go for Alpha, then. 19:05:49 Bitch. 19:05:59 pikhq: Fuck, now I want to build a non-x86 machine and put NT 4 on it. 19:06:06 And then install all the zero pieces of software you can get for it. 19:06:17 Gregor: it's not big enough, that rar 19:06:20 to contain the iso for all archs 19:07:07 Hm 19:07:15 I know that http://vetusware.com/download/Windows%20NT%20Server%203.51/?id=3436 is all archs from a previous download. 19:07:29 (It's 3.51 though) 19:08:02 alise: Make it a PReP system and it'll work out of the box. 19:08:02 Gregor: Ha ha that 4 one is just i386. 19:08:03 I checked. 19:08:07 One folder, I386. 19:08:12 pikhq: A what? 19:08:21 Fek 19:08:23 alise: PowerPC Reference Platform. 19:08:23 Gregor: http://www.torrentz.com/275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2 19:08:27 -!- igo_ has joined. 19:08:29 NT 4 server, almost 400 megs, seeded. 19:08:34 Download. 19:08:41 alise: Alternately, CHRP. Common Hardware Reference Platform, also PowerPC. 19:08:44 pikhq: NO! I must build it manually. 19:08:50 And it shall be named Ivory Tower. 19:09:04 alise: You could actually *build* one of these. 19:09:06 Or IVORYT in Windows. :P 19:09:12 Gregor: "Iso by Mr. BirdPoo" 19:09:15 You know it's authentic. 19:09:22 Sounds about right to me! 19:09:27 alise: If you make it CHRP, you could get *Mac OS 8* on there as well. 19:09:32 Comments are Swedish but the torrent has "English" in the name. 19:09:34 OH WELL LET'S TRY THIS 19:09:34 pikhq: XD 19:09:46 -!- iGO has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:09:57 Gregor: Make sure to use http://www.torrentz.com/announce_275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2, ofc, otherwise it'll be sloow. 19:10:04 It'll be slow anyway, but! 19:10:18 Wait, if these rars don't have isos in them... 19:10:23 how do we make qemu boot from them? 19:11:20 Gregor: I'm gonna go for Alpha, since we know PowerPC Works. 19:11:25 So it's Alpha vs MIPS. 19:11:31 You have the cooler architecture. :P 19:11:35 I don't have a torrent client :P 19:11:50 Tell me what to write after "aptitude install" 19:12:06 Gregor: Wow. 19:12:15 Gregor: transmission-gtk 19:12:37 Then open that .torrent file, double click the torrent in the list, go to trackers, edit the list, and paste the *contents* of http://www.torrentz.com/announce_275db63b173b4930e191c8e2f1a8415e66d670f2 in. 19:12:44 Sit, wait, hope your router supports UPnP. 19:13:35 -!- igo_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:13:46 -!- iGO has joined. 19:14:48 ... does transmission support DHT? :P 19:14:59 Think so, yes; why? 19:15:21 Yes, it does. 19:15:31 Also peer exchange. 19:15:33 Gregor: You should get a good speed just from those trackers. 19:16:04 Just curious. 19:16:45 It's actually a full-featured client. With a rather minimal UI. 19:16:53 *a rather awesome UI. 19:17:07 If you disagree, try using Azureus. Sorry, I mean Vuze. 19:17:29 The UI is fine, it's the features I was concerned about :P 19:18:52 The worst BitTorrent client is the default one. 19:19:07 You can see almost no information, you can configure almost nothing, and it only does one file per window. 19:19:18 Although nowadays it's just a modified uTorrent. 19:19:20 But back then... 19:19:52 Give it a break, it invented BitTorrent :P 19:24:33 Gregor: And then continued being updated for many years past its expiration date. 19:24:35 And forked! 19:24:57 I'll fork your mom. 19:34:11 -!- wareya_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:35:16 -!- wareya has joined. 19:40:02 alise, what do you think of Mozilla Seabird? 19:40:34 I refuse to comment on flashy UI proof-of-concept videos. 19:41:52 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 19:45:31 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:46:08 alise, when will you continue reading FS? 19:46:12 * Sgeo almost said watching 20:03:45 nk 20:14:53 A friend had an Alpha with NT on it; I don't know why, but somehow I've always felt Alphas are boring. Maybe it's the PCI bus, it's so normal. 20:15:50 But I was under the impression that it was the most viable non-x86 NT thing. 20:16:10 fizzie: Shut up, we're doing PPC. 20:17:52 Why did x86 win, exactly? 20:21:07 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:21:39 Sgeo: intel have a lot of money 20:21:50 microsoft chose it first 20:21:50 the end 20:26:11 "These extensions are known as Intel VT (code named "Vanderpool",) and AMD-V (code named "Pacifica".) Although most modern x86 processors include these extensions, the technology is generally considered immature at this point with most software-based virtualization outperforming these extensions.[19] This is expected to change as the technology matures." 20:26:12 :( 20:31:10 Sgeo, as long as it is faster than bochs! 20:31:13 -!- augur has joined. 20:32:44 It might be worth noting that [19] is a 2006 paper; I think (not my area, just a hunch) they've been steadily improving the virtualization extensions from that. 20:33:33 Hmm, has Vala changed since I last looked at it? 20:33:57 Meh 20:35:53 argh left click is broken in X again 20:36:37 Ok, today's UF is boring 20:36:42 other input too partly 20:36:44 Not Illiad's fault, ofc 20:36:55 Oh, wait 20:36:57 GUGYS 20:36:58 *GUYS 20:36:58 http://imgur.com/cWBDT.png 20:36:59 * Vorpal goes for ctrl-alt-backspace 20:37:00 This is NT 4.0 setup 20:37:02 running on MIPS 20:37:02 It's a repeat, not a guest cartoon 20:37:06 DISCUSS 20:37:22 discus 20:37:25 frisbee 20:37:26 ultimate 20:37:29 chess 20:37:36 go 20:37:38 chess 20:37:39 arimaa 20:37:44 computers 20:38:11 Sgeoiscrazy 20:38:13 alise: It could do with some more, I don't know, pizzazz; I mean, it looks just like the non-MIPS installer. Maybe a rotating cube or something. 20:38:27 fizzie: It's in 800x600. 20:38:33 fizzie: Fucking malcontents. 20:38:56 * Sgeo hits alise with a table 20:39:11 It's in 800x600, yet it puts newlines at the same places the regular installer does, I think. 20:39:16 http://i.imgur.com/nBL9Q.png 20:39:20 EXOTIC ENOUGH FOR YOU???? 20:39:22 I'm in a giggly mood today 20:39:28 Or at least, right now 20:39:34 alise: That's better, yes. 20:39:47 well that worked, but was rather nasty 20:39:57 alise, get it to work on OISC 20:40:00 fizzie, happen to know any command to reset X input stuff? 20:40:09 alise: Was this qemu-system-mips or what? 20:40:18 * oerjan hits Sgeo with a red-black tree 20:40:59 fizzie: Yes, but no, it's not that easy. 20:41:04 Gregor can attest. 20:41:24 It's pretty amazing. 20:41:27 I'm heading to #esoteric-silly 20:41:36 Vorpal: Not a general sort of command, though for keyboardy woes the xkb stuff can help. 20:41:42 To avoid flooding everyone here with my nonsense 20:41:42 OH SNAP IT FORMATS THOSE TWO JIGGABYTES SO FAST 20:41:54 fizzie, well it was first mouse, and then also some keyboard keys a bit later 20:42:03 Aww come on, no one's there? 20:42:04 fizzie, happened a few days ago as well, and that was the first time 20:42:31 Sgeo: your attempt to reduce the silliness of #esoteric is DOOMED, i tell you 20:43:03 fizzie, right click and scrolling still worked, clicking scroll wheel did not 20:43:08 Me: "Yay! Even more time wasted not recovering my harddrive!" 20:43:21 Someone: "try putting it in the freezer always works for me" 20:43:39 (ouch) 20:45:11 by making it so obviously ruined that you stop wasting time on it? 20:45:32 * oerjan is juuust guessing here 20:46:05 -!- olsner has joined. 20:46:33 pikhq: I require funds to build the Ivory Tower MIPS Processing Centre, loaded with the Microsoft Windows NT 4.0 Workstation or Server Operating System. 20:46:42 -!- cal153 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:46:46 I'm not going to do it, but how would it hurt, besides if it got wet and didn't let it dry first before attempting recovery 20:48:03 didn't someone say condensation is bad? 20:48:39 Con-den-sation (sation, sation, sation ...) 20:48:48 This was on Facebook, not on IRC 20:49:10 well i mean here, today 20:49:23 in fact wasn't it you when doing that vacuuming thing 20:49:36 Compressed air 20:49:56 A bit of the electronics looked a bit wet from it, wanted to be sure that it looking dry meant it was dry 20:50:09 hm 20:50:11 Presumably, a HD would dry out too? 20:50:58 very well 20:51:19 * oerjan keeps having no clue :D 20:52:45 Also, you have a weird definition of "today". It's almost as though days begin and end for you some time other than when they begin and end for me 20:53:05 *MWAHAHAHA* 20:54:07 The compressed air gases-as-liquids tend to be pretty electronics-safe, I believe; evaporate very quickly and so on. 20:54:27 behold my time traveling powers! 20:55:02 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:55:05 I can time travel too! 20:55:15 I can even time travel in my sleep! 20:55:23 Also, you have a weird definition of "today". It's almost as though days begin and end for you some time other than when they begin and end for me <-- did you mean: timezones 20:55:36 * Sgeo glares at Vorpal 20:55:40 That's The Joje 20:55:42 *Joke 20:55:57 oh I thought you were just stupid. No offence meant. 20:56:12 Vorpal has progressed to outright calling Sgeo a dumbfuck :P 20:57:13 alise, I added "no offence meant", doesn't that make it okay? 20:57:25 http://imc1.piccsy.com/13357-ba33a2-500-407.jpg 20:57:27 (note: meta joke) 20:57:41 alise, nice link 20:59:19 alise, btw, what does resolving deltas mean for git clone? 20:59:30 Something. 20:59:32 alise, it takes an awful lot of time, though this is the kernel source tree 20:59:38 alise: you've insulted Vorpal so many times you've infected him! 20:59:48 oerjan, indeed! 21:00:52 It means the server is busy creating a packfile to send 21:00:52 over the wire. If you pack the repository before cloning 21:00:52 from it, deltas from the packfile will simply be copied 21:00:52 into the new pack. This will provide a huge speedboost, 21:00:52 so make sure to repack the repository on the server every 21:00:52 once in a while. 21:01:06 Vorpal: ^ 21:01:55 alise, hm... why it is then causing intensive harddrive seeking? 21:01:57 -!- jcp has joined. 21:02:07 alise, it is definitely local, based on htop output and so 21:02:10 so on* 21:02:12 Dunno. 21:02:22 It's not skippable, though. 21:02:23 I can donate the laptop to my step-mother's mother! 21:02:27 alise, right 21:02:28 I guess you could ask them to repack. 21:02:30 Sgeo: Why? 21:02:38 alise, hm 21:02:45 So she has a computer 21:02:49 I can teach her how to use it 21:02:54 I'd put a Linux on first, ofc 21:02:59 Sgeo: that sounds like liquid pain. 21:03:04 has she asked for a computer? 21:03:12 -!- zzo38 has joined. 21:03:13 She's asked for me to teach her 21:03:37 Puppy Linux isn't that bad for newbies, is it? 21:03:44 I'd be there most of the time if she had questions 21:03:50 I'd install Ubuntu proper. 21:04:03 On a device with <200MB RAM? 21:04:54 Sgeo, who are you talking about? 21:04:57 No. 21:04:59 Vorpal: his stepgrandmother. 21:05:04 ah.... 21:05:11 liquid pain indeed 21:05:22 also <200 MB? 21:05:28 wtf is that? retro computing? 21:05:33 This thing is from 1999 or so 21:05:34 not something for a newbie 21:05:36 TinyCore 8-D 21:05:38 Sgeo, why.... 21:05:49 Gregor, it is not a good desktop for a newbie though 21:05:49 Because I found it in the house somewhere 21:05:56 Gregor, how goes zee btw? 21:06:06 Vorpal: Stalled as it ever was. 21:06:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:06:44 Also, how difficult is a clit mouse for a newbie? And what should I call it, I'm not saying clit mouse or nipple mouse 21:06:58 -!- cal153 has joined. 21:07:51 Puppy Linux isn't that terrible for newbies when it works, is it? 21:09:07 Sgeo: Pointing stick? 21:09:30 It is what Wikipedia calls it 21:10:18 My dad said no 21:10:26 She needs to help get the house clean 21:10:40 in theory this is capable of 80 MiB/s, why do I only get about 1.1 MiB/s 21:10:43 sigh 21:10:44 Sgeo: you are 21 21:10:47 you are not a slave to your father 21:10:50 how many fucking times do we have to say this 21:11:00 and harddrives at either end are not bottle neck 21:11:04 so wtf 21:11:19 So: Abandon the money he gives me for college, abandon the house I live in... 21:11:48 And have to have a job that will only serve to distract me further from homework? 21:12:22 Yes: giving someone a laptop will cause your dad to go batshit crazy and kick you out of the house and never give you any money. 21:12:29 (If this is actually true and doesn't read like sarcasm, your dad is a fucking lunatic.) 21:12:37 and CPU on either end is not fully loaded 21:12:48 in fact *no* resource on the computers are fully loaded by this 21:12:52 is* 21:12:59 so wtf is going on 21:13:26 that gbit switch have been able to sustain way more than this before 21:13:49 He might attempt to take away my computer 21:13:55 And the ancient laptop 21:14:43 Sgeo: So, basically, your father is batshit insane and would try and make your life suck because you were generous or acted independently in any way signifying that you are perhaps an adult. 21:15:15 alise, I fear that old dell laptop may have some vibrational issues with the hdd... 21:15:17 alise, he's locked my computer and taken away my laptop in the past 21:15:21 Not permanently, usually 21:15:22 oh well, lets see how long it lasts 21:15:26 But for extended periods of time 21:15:48 Also, my step-mother's mother is moving [back] in. I think that does make a difference to the situation 21:15:55 Sgeo: So... you're basically just planning to rely on your batshit insane father who's halting your development into an adult because you get money in return for only doing everything he says. 21:15:56 Noted. 21:17:03 I think it's been halted enough such that working out how to get out is difficult 21:17:14 Which claims do you agree/disagree? http://jyte.com/claims?by=zzo38computer.cjb.net&page=1 (please note I do not necessarily agree with all of these myself, although I do agree most) 21:18:48 Sgeo: 1) Get job 2) Move out 21:19:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 21:20:32 0syntax 21:20:38 nooga: ? 21:21:05 alise, I don't even know where I'd move to 21:21:12 Sgeo: You go to university, right? 21:21:17 Yes 21:21:19 Sgeo, what are you going on about now? 21:21:32 I don't know if I could switch to being in a dorm in the middle of a semester 21:21:47 Sgeo: You could always wait until next semester or just, you know, ask. 21:22:10 You have serious potential as a programmer, it's just that you haven't seemed to really change much in years. 21:23:18 alise: i said: 0syntax 21:23:28 nooga: 1syntax 21:23:34 2syntax 21:23:39 7syntax 21:23:45 * Phantom_Hoover realises something terrible 21:23:56 alise, thank you 21:24:18 Although by "haven't seemed to change", do you mean going-through-life-wise, or related to programmerness? 21:24:54 Sgeo, well, I've never seen any of your software. 21:25:33 Sgeo: The former, really. You've improved as a programmer. 21:25:35 yeah, i also keep mine in secret 21:26:24 Bah, why does noöne keep a decent wiki account. 21:26:56 Well, there's PSOX! 21:27:45 Phantom_Hoover: What do you mean by that? What do you mean by not a decent wiki account? 21:28:01 zzo38, that was hyperbole. 21:28:37 But *some people* have an irritating habit of not bothering to log in, making it nigh-impossible to find their work quickly. 21:28:56 LIKE ME 21:29:00 YES 21:29:02 (Did you mean me?) 21:29:07 YOU ESPECIALLY 21:29:13 BUT SGEO DOES IT TOO 21:29:33 I'm also under Sgep 21:29:50 I also don't have much work 21:30:08 hey _i_ always log in. except that one time the other day i didn't notice i'd been logged out. 21:32:48 I guess I do sometimes do stuff anonymously 21:32:52 Which seems strange for me 21:33:10 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/24.46.152.130 21:33:16 Sgeo, you sicken me! 21:35:21 * oerjan is more annoyed by people editing pages in myriads of small steps, since it fills up the recent changes 21:35:52 there is a considerable overlap with the anonymous editors there though 21:36:51 Aww, CPedia is down 21:37:21 oerjan, that annoys me too. Particularly because there's a great big "Preview" button next to the "Save" one. 21:40:14 Here's what graphviz thinks who talked the most with each other in 2009 here: http://zem.fi/~fis/conv2009.png 21:40:30 As predicted, I am the centre. 21:40:52 Phantom_Hoover: Cuil has been shut down entirely, it seems. 21:40:59 There's also a rather central alise-ais523-Vorpal triangle. 21:41:02 Noooooo 21:41:43 * Phantom_Hoover remembers he's only been here since mid-2010 21:41:48 Well, regularly. 21:41:52 ah, the days when we had lambabot 21:41:57 oerjan: go harass gwern to give us lambdabot 21:42:21 me? i'm not even on #haskell any more 21:43:00 alise, nice phrase I spotted in kernelconfig: "Routing message grabulator" 21:43:30 Phantom_Hoover: You are rather in the middle in http://zem.fi/~fis/conv2010.png though. 21:44:05 (I'm a bit suspicious of the fact that it doesn't even have a fizzie-fungot edge at all, though.) 21:44:05 fizzie: your majesty! and queen. he and a friend left on a journey 10, then magic damage will be reduced by 10%. a star after any characteristic means it's at maximum strength! no matter what the price! it is, you idiot! hey! is that for us! the chef's in a snit, trying to get food to the front lines. heard a spell to energize the sword takes immense evil! indeed! this thing. what you have? transform! this trading house. it's t 21:44:15 fungot, you're not on it! 21:44:16 fizzie: by thy leave, crono?!! you brought back my cat! thank you, crono! crono...! 21:44:16 Most of the lines seem to be joined to the node labeled "alise". I think "flexo" is the only node with only one line? 21:44:16 fizzie: you're missing some identifications. oklopol = oklofok, augur = psygnisfive, kerlo = warrigal iirc 21:44:34 and wasn't estoppel someone else too 21:44:44 -!- lambdabot has joined. 21:44:50 -!- Lemmih has joined. 21:45:02 gregorr = gregorr-l 21:45:03 oerjan: Yes, I only have alise/ehird/tusho → alise and vorpal/anmaster → vorpal. I'll add those to my nick-canonicalization list now. 21:45:11 alise, that any good? 21:45:42 Phantom_Hoover: ? 21:45:47 fizzie: you need estoppel 21:45:50 and zuff :P 21:45:53 fizzie: What is a nick-canonicalization list? 21:45:54 and iehird 21:45:57 @pl \x -> x x 21:45:58 join id 21:46:03 and i presume you do * at the end to get the iphones, otherwise i'm OUTRAGED 21:46:08 fizzie: you're missing some identifications. oklopol = oklofok, augur = psygnisfive, kerlo = warrigal iirc 21:46:10 = uorygl too 21:46:20 I did not expect that point-free thing. 21:46:25 alise: It matches all your prefixes, yes. 21:46:43 @type join 21:46:44 forall (m :: * -> *) a. (Monad m) => m (m a) -> m a 21:47:43 alise: Which one was the current name of "kerlo = warrigal = uorygl"? 21:48:16 uorygl 21:48:29 * Phantom_Hoover loves the way that his second-strongest conversation line is to fungot. 21:48:29 Phantom_Hoover: we are looking, but well behaved! crono!! they're escaping! 1b is escaping! 1b is escaping! 1b is escaping! so! that cathedral to the west?... yes! well then rest and relax! huh? 21:48:40 ^style 21:48:40 Available: agora alice c64 ct* darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc jargon lovecraft nethack pa speeches ss wp youtube 21:48:48 ^style ic 21:48:48 Selected style: ic (INTERCAL manual) 21:49:01 fungot, I suspect this will be boring. 21:49:02 Phantom_Hoover: this would produce an error if reinstated somehow, but using a onespot or twospot variable is reverse-assigned twice in the standard directories for libraries on your computer does run out of memory during compilation, it will print a copyright message and a `next' or `again' was devised by malcom ryan, who implemented `come from'-based multithreading as a standalone line label. 21:49:06 -!- Lemmih has left (?). 21:49:21 damn, I forgot to thank Lemmih 21:49:25 thanks Lemmih 21:49:25 fizzie: warrigal = tswett last he was here 21:49:27 oerjan: did you do that? 21:49:33 Wait, what time does Deewiant tend to be active at? 21:49:41 alise: do what 21:49:52 fizzie, you forgot soupdragon = fax. 21:49:52 oerjan: get lambdabot 21:50:39 Phantom_Hoover: Gah, I *just* redrawed those plots. I'll add that remapping, but won't bother updating those pictures. They're a mess anyway. 21:50:46 fizzie: soupdragon = fax (= misspiggy iirc), scarf = ais523, gregor-w = gregor. for gregor* and oklo* it may be best to use regexes... 21:51:10 i am sure oklopol had more, at least 21:51:15 oerjan: It's already a regex-based map, and I did ^gregor → gregor, ^oklo → oklopol. 21:51:22 ok 21:51:49 fizzie, Vonlebio = me, but that probably won't affect anything. 21:51:53 -!- Phantom_Hoover has changed nick to Vonlebio. 21:52:53 alise: i had nothing to do with lambdabot 21:53:03 then... 21:53:06 how did he appear? 21:53:08 just now 21:53:18 Vonlebio? pikhq? 21:53:21 fizzie? 21:53:45 * oerjan wants to cackle evilly, but feels unentitled 21:53:45 'Twas I. 21:53:48 * Sgeo should learn to write resumes 21:53:55 With the little accent thingies, ofc 21:53:56 oerjan, allow me. 21:54:00 MWAHAHAHAHAHA 21:54:07 Sgeo, little accent thingies? 21:54:24 re'ume' 21:54:24 fizzie: oh Vonlebio = Phantom_hoover too :D 21:54:31 The é in résumé, I guess. 21:55:11 Sgeo, do you have a compose key? 21:55:22 Currently not 21:55:24 Hold on 21:56:20 Got ít¡ 21:56:43 Itś in an annoying place, though 21:56:47 oerjan: Done. Fixedated the pictures, even. (For some values of "fixed"; fdp's layouts leave something to be desired.) 21:57:13 fizzie: Now do the Origin of the Cosmos. 21:57:26 That is, the fast-track through 2004-present of the galaxies. 21:57:30 It's is now itś, and its is now its 21:57:44 Sgeo: that isn't the compose key 21:57:47 that's a dead apostrophe 21:57:54 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:58:09 Añd I used the compose key to make it 21:58:42 I didńt turn ' into dead apostrophe 21:58:43 fizzie: the 2009 one looks like it got much larger 21:58:52 The itś thing is just humorous to me 21:59:00 Hmm 21:59:33 résumé 21:59:42 oerjan: The selection of what nodes and edges to include is pretty random. There's at least the "must have at least N comments" cutoff, so the merging of nicks could easily add nodes. 21:59:45 accents fail 22:00:07 “Sgeo,” Vonlebio said, “compose can also be used for nice quotes.” 22:00:23 Dear Firefox: When you crash, and I restart you, I really, really do not want all my tabs loading again 22:00:29 In conclusion, fuck you, Firefox 22:00:46 Vonlebio: Also called "smart quotes", because they're obviously a lot smarter than the regular, old, stupid quote. 22:01:10 But noöne but me uses it for diæreses (or ligatures). 22:01:24 * Sgeo disables 22:01:27 -!- jcp has joined. 22:01:32 Well, it was originally a habit of alise’s. 22:01:45 ¨Hmm¨ 22:01:50 Those aren't smart quotes 22:01:52 FAIL 22:02:01 smart quotes with compose suck 22:02:03 with the default bindings 22:02:05 They're more like bottomless quotes 22:02:13 Which is kind of hot 22:02:36 ... 22:02:45 That is the most ridiculous use of the phrase "hot" ever. 22:03:02 How do you modify the list of characters generated by compose key in Linux, for an individual account? 22:03:15 zzo38: .XCompose 22:03:18 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Rule34Quotes. 22:04:31 alise, well, Compose-<-" is a rather ridiculous sequence. 22:04:39 alise: I'm not yet quite sure how to animate those, since the existing system needs quite a whole lot of data for a single point, let alone a whole constellation. I could try out (at some point) just shorter sets, but I think it might jumble everything up rather badly. 22:05:27 “Ooh, ty” 22:05:53 fizzie, animate what? 22:05:53 “”so hot 22:06:05 > chr 34 22:06:06 '"' 22:06:21 COINCIDENCE, OR NOT? 22:06:29 MY GOD 22:06:45 Vonlebio: That "PCA points with gaussian covariances" plot that looks like a starry sky. http://zem.fi/~fis/esomapn.png and those. 22:06:48 fizzie: plot first from only one day 22:06:50 then first + next day 22:06:52 cumulatively 22:06:55 etc. 22:06:57 so eventually it's the sum total of all logs 22:07:17 fizzie, PCA? 22:07:34 On Tuesday I will try the .XCompose. Is it necessary to log out and then log in again? 22:07:35 Dammit, label your axes! 22:07:44 zzo38, why Tuesday? 22:07:51 And it requires a restart of the X server. 22:07:54 Vonlebio: They're the two first PCA components; they don't have any sensible labels. 22:08:00 Vonlebio: Principal Component Analysis, you know. 22:08:10 This sounds STATISTICAL 22:08:30 axis of evil labels 22:09:00 Vonlebio: It is FreeGeek, it is Ubuntu LTSP. Will it work if the terminal is switched off and on again? 22:09:16 I have no idea. 22:09:26 If that restarts the X server, then yes. 22:09:44 kxo 22:10:28 It is Ubuntu LTSP..... do you know anything about Ubuntu LTSP? 22:11:19 less than sane programming 22:11:21 Also, do you know how to make it start the terminal window maximized? 22:11:55 alise: It needs the data split into sets in order to get multiple points per person. Though I could take every N'th comment so that it'd sort-of cumulatively affect each point. The feature-extraction script I have can't quite also do "cumulative" yet -- well, I guess it could if I just regenerate the data files for each frame of animation, and stick the fixed PCA matrix somewhere else. I'll see what I can do. 22:12:35 -!- Rule34Quotes has changed nick to Sgeo. 22:12:36 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:33 brb 22:14:03 fizzie, what data does it even extract? 22:14:16 Vonlebio: Didn't you see that list of components? 22:14:25 Vonlebio: http://zem.fi/~fis/esomap-comp.png 22:14:27 No... 22:14:53 Vonlebio: It does 60 features, that's just a random-ish selection of 17. 22:15:29 So it's an attempt at grouping by writing style? 22:16:53 Vonlebio: Right. The confusion matrices I've seen have been about how well it classifies the points in http://zem.fi/~fis/esomapf.png 22:17:11 (Except that esomapf.png is a 2-dimensional projection, so they're not very "groupable" there.) 22:17:59 So wait, you and zzo are highly unusual in writing style? 22:18:20 -!- nooga has joined. 22:18:33 Yes, though you perhaps should keep putting "writing style" in quotes; the features are pretty trivial. 22:19:08 “Writing style” 22:19:29 Sgeo, don’t start getting any sick pleasure out of that. 22:19:38 It also is not IRC-specialized at all, since we originally wrote that stuff to guess book authorship. 22:19:52 fizzie, so why you? zzo38 writes oddly, but you don't really stand out. 22:20:17 Vonlebio: I think it's mostly the sentence and "paragraph" (message) length features in my case. 22:20:53 Vonlebio: See message length distributions, alise vs. vorpal vs. myself: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/len.png -- there's a difference there. 22:21:03 Why can't you feed MY ego for this? It's obviously the most important! 22:23:35 Vonlebio: Okay, http://zem.fi/~fis/len.png has you too. 22:24:18 (The Y value where it sort of flattens out and goes noise-only depends on the total number of comments.) 22:24:20 Am I that line that goes insane between 150 and 250? 22:24:51 Oh, small comment count. 22:25:29 It's the Y value 1/N, where N is the comment count, since that's normalized frequencies of different line lengths, in logscale. 22:25:57 Seems to be a bit below 0.0001, so N > 10000 but not too much. 22:28:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:29:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:30:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has joined. 22:32:10 My love for quotes is not sick 22:32:17 I'm sure it's perfectly "normal" 22:32:20 Mmm 22:33:01 -!- Vonlebio has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:33:24 Noöne let Sgeo near TeX. 22:34:06 Phantom_Hoover_: Why? 22:34:34 * Sgeo is "sexual 22:34:46 zzo38, it has quotes which will push Sgeo’s fetish over the edge! 22:35:18 “Mmm” 22:35:39 It doesn't matter, you can use it if you want to 22:35:45 ”mmm“ 22:36:06 Hah! Just “quoted” the whole universe 22:36:49 With all the obvious implications 22:36:51 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Yivo. 22:36:56 Aww, registered nick 22:36:58 -!- Yivo has changed nick to Sgeo. 22:37:35 Yivo hasn't been seen since 2009 22:37:46 -!- Phantom_Hoover_ has changed nick to Vonlebia. 22:37:47 Registered the day before 22:37:49 -!- Vonlebia has changed nick to Vonlebio. 22:38:16 * Sgeo ideas 22:38:33 sadideas 22:39:51 You can use another Shakespearian acronym... 22:40:09 Well, that was a bust 22:40:11 Hmm? 22:42:25 Read this, please: http://jyte.com/claims?by=zzo38computer.cjb.net&page=1 22:42:51 You win a million points if you can work out what Vonlebio is an acronym of. 22:43:27 Vonlebio: I can't figure out 22:47:06 -!- webquint has joined. 22:47:18 FFS there are ads on the 5-second movies. 22:47:33 The ads are *6 times as long* as the content. 22:48:15 adblock plus probably kills them 22:48:49 They're those obnoxious ones that play before the video, so I shall need some further convincing. 22:49:58 it kills them on livestream, and various other services. doesn't kill them for hulu. only way to know is to try it. 22:50:54 Oh, it looks like it works. 22:51:43 c: 22:52:09 No, wait, it doesn't. 22:52:22 The ads are from bit.ly 22:52:27 No, oops. 22:52:30 blip.tv 22:52:36 oh well 22:53:19 The worst part is that they're Windows 7 ads. 22:53:25 Of the most obnoxious strain. 22:54:30 Is Hashcash dead? 22:55:25 mm? 22:57:19 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:59:55 Kaneva has opened to developers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 22:59:57 * Sgeo happies 23:01:37 -!- MigoMipo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:15:32 Good *God* the FFXIII soundtrack sucks. 23:18:13 pikhq, s/the// and s/soundtrack// 23:18:31 It doesn't even have Prelude! 23:19:01 Does this mean anything to you? "Help! I disagree is full of nuts!" 23:19:24 Vonlebio: s/s\//s\/ /g 23:19:31 * oerjan whistles innocently 23:20:19 zzo38: sounds like something fungot would say 23:20:19 oerjan: operand overloading causes a break, as if the command line ( this can be read, here's an example::. 23:24:03 -!- augur has joined. 23:24:22 Have you experimented writing music using notes other than standard 12-TET? Do you want to win a big spider by playing solitaire card? Do you think METAFONT is the best program for designing typefaces? How much garlic do you put in your tomato sauce? How long *isn't* this sentence? How much does Thursday weigh? 23:24:47 so I have IRDA but nothing else to use it with 23:24:49 how boring 23:24:57 turns out you can't do RCX with the IR port 23:25:02 since it is not IRDAish at all 23:25:14 it needs a fixed carrier frequency (unlike IRDA) and what not 23:26:29 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:29:11 no, heck if i know, i don't cook, 18 characters, and 15*10^16 eV/c^2 23:34:24 yes, no, dunno, 1 or 2 cloves, one mile, ERROR: Cannot cast type (day) to type (weight) 23:35:01 oh i forgot the spider. no. 23:35:19 I should look for the power and USB cables for my external HD 23:37:41 yes 23:37:48 CONUNDRUM: how is Sgeo pronounced? 23:38:19 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/sgeo.wav 23:38:31 Note: Don't visit other pages on that site 23:38:37 I still haven't demalwareized them 23:38:41 * alise visits other pages on that site 23:38:48 we use linux dude 23:38:49 :P 23:39:12 -!- gunninK has joined. 23:39:27 -!- gunninK has left (?). 23:39:44 Sgeo, I am going to ignore that. 23:40:11 The more æsthetically pleasing choice is "Szheo". 23:40:28 or skhayo 23:40:41 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Sqeo. 23:41:03 -!- Sqeo has changed nick to SeGo. 23:41:13 "Skeeo" 23:42:21 Vorpal: LIRC can use some IRDA chipsets for consumer IR with varying levels of success -- http://www.lirc.org/irda.html though I don't think it's quite up-to-date -- but it's mostly a matter of luck. I had one act-ir200l serial dongle I tried to use as a receiver -- there's a driver now -- and it sort-of got some data, but it was too noisy to be usable from more than 10 cm away. 23:42:28 -!- Wamanuz4 has joined. 23:42:51 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 23:42:56 SeGo: "Sir gay-oh", duh 23:43:01 but without the r 23:43:02 Sugayoh 23:43:27 * Vonlebio starts listening to Sgeo karaoke. 23:43:34 * Vonlebio regrets in instantly. 23:43:37 Holy shit SeGo's accent is *irritating as fuck* 23:44:01 How old were you in that recording? 23:44:05 Vonlebio, doesn't karaoke require lyrics? 23:44:19 alise, never comment on other people's voices, since you rarely know how annoying yours is. 23:44:35 Vonlebio: Enough people have analysed my voice for me to have a guess :P 23:44:38 fizzie, hah 23:44:42 -!- webquint has quit (Quit: Page closed). 23:44:56 (I sound like a British 10 year old minus the irritating.) 23:45:02 (And more, uh, smoothly British.) 23:45:03 It occurs to me that I don't know when I made it 23:45:08 Maybe around 2008 or so? 23:45:13 Hold on, maybe the server knows 23:45:36 The first person I ask gives my voice annoyingness 5/10. 23:46:00 I don't ask. 23:46:04 fizzie, you could perhaps use a webcam 23:46:12 My voice is too annoying for me to want a second opinion :P 23:46:12 fizzie, after all they tend to pick up IR 23:46:13 SeGo: Is that accent normal where you are? 23:46:19 If so: we need to nuke that part of the US. 23:46:32 Gregor, I don't recall your voice being particularly grating. 23:46:34 Wait, I think SeGo lives in New York. 23:46:36 Let's nuke New York. 23:46:37 fizzie, when I want to check something IRish works I tend to check in my phone camera 23:46:39 Get rid of al the hipsters. 23:46:41 -!- Wamanuz3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 23:46:42 SeGo: That is a really bizarre accent. 23:46:51 He sounded foreign for the first second or so 23:47:05 Then he just sounded like pure nase (nasal means "relating to nases") 23:47:22 It's, like, a mix of Italian and Minnesotan. 23:48:05 You forgot nase. 23:48:06 alise, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIS KARAOKE 23:48:14 Good lord, why are people so mean X-D 23:48:24 Gregor, I can't sing either. 23:48:28 Vonlebio: LINK ME LINK ME 23:48:34 But I therefore sing as little as possible. 23:48:37 Poor SeGo is going to commit suicide. 23:48:49 alise, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A COPY OF PAINT IT BLACK ON HAND FIRST. 23:48:56 Oh, that! 23:48:59 SORT OF DONE 23:48:59 alise, you know how mic/headphone jacks on computers are normally colour coded? 23:49:01 SeGo: Long Island, right? 23:49:03 QUICK DOWNLOAD IT BEFORE SEGEO DELETES IT 23:49:07 Vorpal: yes. 23:49:11 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/paint_it_black_karaoke.ogg 23:49:14 alise, same for many other connectors? 23:49:24 Vorpal: yes 23:49:24 Snagged it! 23:49:30 I'm not deleting it 23:49:36 alise, which is rather useful. Except they decided they wanted a sober look on this dell. All connectors are gray 23:49:38 O god 23:49:41 dark gray that is 23:49:42 It's not the actual lyrics, it's lyrics from 23:49:43 Um 23:49:48 Now let's use SeGo's hands to punch him and say "Stop hitting yourself!" 23:49:48 I'll record myself singing opera and upload that for you to make fun of :P 23:49:50 Northern Cities Vowel Shift *and* Italian and what the fucking fuck. 23:49:56 alise, with some light gray labels above on the mid-gray case :P 23:49:59 Then we can lock him in a cupboard! 23:50:12 http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106380 23:50:16 alise, it's rather absurd if the light conditions aren't good 23:50:22 Vorpal: lawl 23:50:24 alise, have you listened to it? 23:50:28 pikhq: It just sounds very Long Island to me. 23:50:29 Vonlebio: preparing to 23:50:42 alise, actually there is one colour coded port. The parallel one. 23:50:44 YOU CANNOT UNHEAR IT 23:50:49 alise, which makes the whole thing even stranger 23:50:57 uo 23:51:05 Why did I upload this? 23:51:05 I'm sorry, SeGo, but I don't have the endurance to listen to more than one second of that. 23:51:09 This should have been scrapped 23:51:13 Nothing personal, just... never sing. Ever. 23:51:17 Please. 23:51:24 I used to be in Chorus in elementary school 23:51:31 The Dell at work is mostly-black, and also has the front panel mic/headphone connectors black and with very unreadable labels. Haven't looked at the back panel, though, it might be conventionally color-coded there. 23:51:34 I have to listen to it in packets of a second to stop myself from going insane. 23:51:35 Yeah, that's not saying much. 23:51:35 I don't think SeGo sounded too bad 23:51:43 Vorpal, WTFBBQ 23:51:44 Good lawd X-D 23:51:48 You don't even have to know about pitch. 23:51:50 Vonlebio, ? 23:51:52 Vorpal: You mean the karaoke? 23:51:56 Or just the "HELLO MY NAME ISN'T SGEO" 23:51:58 Vonlebio: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOUR SINGING 23:51:58 huh 23:51:59 alise, no? I meant the name 23:52:04 Vorpal: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/paint_it_black_karaoke.ogg 23:52:04 Gregor, yes 23:52:06 alise, I missed the karoke 23:52:08 He starts singing about half an octave too high! 23:52:09 Erm, 23:52:12 whoa 23:52:14 Vonlebio, DON'T LISTEN TO IT 23:52:16 SeGo: WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOURS 23:52:16 alise, karoke is almost always bad 23:52:18 FURTHEMORE SEGEO SUCKS COCKS AND IS HOMOSEXUAL 23:52:19 IT OUGHT TO BE AN SCP 23:52:22 so I don't have high hopes 23:52:27 Vorpal: /msg 23:52:38 Desire to record myself singing opera increasing :P 23:52:48 Gregor: Understandable. 23:52:56 all opera sounds terrible, though 23:52:58 I couldn't read the lyrics that were onscreen obviously 23:53:02 Desire to record myself increasing. Lack of microphone constant. 23:53:05 Since those weren't the lyrics I wanted to record 23:53:09 alise: No, bad opera sounds terrible. 23:53:10 wtf 23:53:20 wtf wtf 23:53:23 Gregor, you should 23:53:24 nooga, it cannot be unheard now. 23:53:37 pre mutation sux 23:54:06 I can now threaten this channel at will! 23:54:07 I have a microphone but ubuntu doesn't recognise its existence 23:54:09 MUAHAHAHA 23:54:31 I just need to threaten to sing! *sings about his newfound threatening ability* 23:54:47 It's too bad that all IRC clients are preprogrammed to download and play on loop any audio file presented. 23:55:28 I do want to try again at some point 23:55:31 Hopefully get it right 23:55:33 Gregor: No that isn't true 23:55:43 zzo38, that's the joke 23:56:05 Some IRC clients probably have an option (which might be disabled by default), and some do not download them at all 23:56:11 SeGo: I am pretty sure you naturally cannot sing. 23:57:52 Actually, I know when it was recorded: 23:57:54 A year ago 23:58:08 More or less 23:58:12 SeGo: Again, is that accent usual where you are? 23:58:18 What accent? 23:58:22 alise, see /msg 23:58:37 * SeGo feels like Vorpal and alise are talking about him behind his back :/ 23:59:50 I think that file is going to have to be banned under some convention or other.