←2010-10-11 2010-10-12 2010-10-13→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:08:22 <Vorpal> creating new ones on the fly
00:08:27 <olsner> that's nice
00:08:32 <catseye> since the topics have come up: one thing DragonFlyBSD can do is sleep for very small amounts of time very accurately. I don't remember if it's <0.1ms or not. It accomplishes it with a PLL implemented in software. (Whatever else may be true, Matt can be a very clever engineer.)
00:08:38 <Gregor> Awwwww, I have a purry kitty!
00:08:45 <Vorpal> vgs
00:08:45 <Vorpal> VG #PV #LV #SN Attr VSize VFree
00:08:46 <Vorpal> array 1 9 0 wz--n- 927,32g 543,32g
00:08:59 <Vorpal> $ lvs
00:08:59 <Vorpal> LV VG Attr LSize Origin Snap% Move Log Copy% Convert
00:08:59 <Vorpal> ccache array -wi-ao 2,00g
00:08:59 <Vorpal> home array -wi-ao 70,00g
00:09:01 <Vorpal> [...]
00:09:01 <elliott> olsner: lvm isn't that useful.
00:09:09 <olsner> what happens to the file systems when you resize partitions though?
00:09:11 <Vorpal> elliott, depends on your needs
00:09:19 <elliott> specifically, it has an impossibly incomprehensibly badly designed UI
00:09:31 <Vorpal> olsner, you have to run the resizing tool for that to grow it, or shrink it in advance
00:09:33 <elliott> and you have to be like Vorpal and pretend you actually have a use for any of this shit
00:09:39 <Vorpal> olsner, ext3 can do online resising
00:09:39 <elliott> through advanced self-delusion
00:09:44 <catseye> of course, i try to search for this, all i get is netbsd
00:09:50 <Vorpal> elliott, I actually *have* use for it
00:10:15 <olsner> I'm pretty convinced that ext3 is pretty sucky
00:10:21 <catseye> here it is: http://www.dragonflybsd.org/presentations/nanosleep/
00:10:22 <elliott> Vorpal: no you don't
00:10:27 <Vorpal> true
00:10:34 <Vorpal> olsner, ext4 can as well
00:10:39 <Vorpal> olsner, same for xfs, jfs and several other ones
00:10:41 <elliott> catseye: you mean dragonfly :P
00:10:42 <Vorpal> elliott, why not?
00:10:44 <elliott> not netbsd
00:10:48 <olsner> I use ReiserFS the killer file system :D
00:10:48 <Vorpal> elliott, I do have use for a lot
00:10:55 <Vorpal> elliott, not for every single feature of course
00:10:57 <elliott> Vorpal: no you don't, you just like to think you do
00:11:00 <elliott> and use the features simply because they're there
00:11:01 <Vorpal> elliott, prove it
00:11:03 <elliott> olsner: hur hur
00:11:05 <elliott> Vorpal: no.
00:11:09 <Vorpal> elliott, you fail
00:11:36 <catseye> elliott: unless they changed the name, it's officially DragonFlyBSD (yes, with the studly F)
00:11:40 <Vorpal> olsner, suggestion: read about lvm, make up your own mind
00:11:51 <elliott> catseye: "DragonFly BSD"
00:11:52 <elliott> on their homepage
00:11:56 <elliott> but it has the BSD catted on other pages
00:11:59 <elliott> presumably unupdated ones
00:12:01 <olsner> I would like to use ZFS, it always sounds super sexy, but iirc there are silly licensing issues that prevents integrating it in linux
00:12:07 <elliott> "Recent news from the DragonFly Digest
00:12:07 <elliott> Firefox really, finally, actually fixed
00:12:07 <elliott> ...
00:12:10 <elliott> Hey, project pages do work"
00:12:12 <catseye> elliott: then they're... breaking formation
00:12:21 <elliott> catseye: was that a pun? oh god.
00:12:26 <catseye> flying thing pun not intended! no!
00:12:46 <Vorpal> catseye, that was awful
00:12:54 <catseye> Just, all the other BSDs do vnogfffffgghhhhhhhhhhhhh not have spaces in them
00:13:03 <catseye> that word was from my cat
00:13:33 <catseye> they still gots the studly F tho
00:13:42 <elliott> pikhq: BTW, Ubuntu includes very nice Japanese fonts by default.
00:13:52 <elliott> As of two releases ago or something like that. Maybe more.
00:14:00 <elliott> catseye: Is your cat the cat whose eye it is?
00:14:38 <olsner> can eyes of cats not own other cats?
00:14:49 <Vorpal> olsner, XD
00:14:53 <Vorpal> night →→→→
00:14:56 <catseye> elliott: no, for complicated reasons
00:15:10 <elliott> catseye: Death? Destruction? Adoption? Run-away?
00:15:19 <elliott> Cat divorce?
00:16:05 <pikhq> elliott: 本当だかい。
00:16:10 <olsner> self-immolation?
00:16:18 <elliott> pikhq: TRANSLATE
00:16:20 <elliott> olsner: by a *cat*?
00:16:22 <pikhq> elliott: Oh really?
00:16:43 <elliott> pikhq: I can screenshot those characters if you restate them without highlighting me so that they aren't in ugly red.
00:16:49 <elliott> I'm pretty sure they're the takao fonts.
00:16:56 <olsner> elliott: why not?
00:16:59 <pikhq> 本当だかい。
00:17:14 <pikhq> コレモ?
00:17:34 <elliott> pikhq: http://imgur.com/yUCEF.png
00:17:55 <catseye> elliott: it is a deep mystery, involving klein bottles and tuna
00:18:12 <pikhq> Teah, that's a pretty reasonable font.
02:19:53 <Gregor> antivigilante: The sheet music isn't QUITE done yet.
02:19:59 <Gregor> antivigilante: Go read the sheet music for mov. 1 :P
02:20:07 <quintopia> i want a midi, so i can try it with my own piano samples
02:20:14 <Gregor> Oh, sure, that I can do.
02:20:20 <Gregor> In fact, I just forgot to upload that.
02:20:25 <Gregor> I usually do (a "digital piano roll")
02:20:30 <Gregor> Anyway, fixes to do ...
02:20:38 <antivigilante> cool
02:21:00 <antivigilante> I'll be checking your shit out me like
02:21:38 <Gregor> antivigilante: http://codu.org/music/
02:22:44 <quintopia> also, you wouldn't happen to have KRegor versions would you? i don't actually hate Qt.
02:23:55 <antivigilante> oh Rosegarden
02:23:57 <antivigilante> )
02:24:03 <antivigilante> :)
02:24:07 * Gregor stabs quintopia in the face
02:25:08 <pikhq> Gregor: What's the title of this movement?
02:25:15 <Gregor> Finale in Three
02:25:28 <Gregor> <-- so original with names
02:25:45 <Gregor> Fluidsynth seems to be failing me here ... STOP CUTTING IT OFF!
02:25:46 <pikhq> Consider it tagged.
02:26:15 <quintopia> i see Gregor is a Qt hata
02:26:20 <Gregor> pikhq: It wasn't tagged either???
02:26:27 <Gregor> Argh, wtf happened producing these X_X
02:26:34 <Gregor> Cut off, untagged, weird audio, wtfwtfwtf
02:26:35 <quintopia> why you wanna be all up in my Haterade and you don't even know the flava?
02:26:46 <Gregor> Let's try that again.
02:26:49 <pikhq> Gregor: I would've had to retag it anyways; I am *picky*.
02:26:53 <quintopia> Gregorface: midimidimidimidi
02:26:59 <pikhq> ... Wait, *cut off*?
02:27:02 <Gregor> quintopia: Patience.
02:27:04 <pikhq> Gagh.
02:27:16 <Gregor> pikhq: Just the last note wasn't allowed to decay.
02:27:21 <antivigilante> ROSEGARDEN
02:27:27 <pikhq> Still, irritating.
02:27:44 <pikhq> Gregor: BTW, Finale in Three is quite nice.
02:28:51 <antivigilante> i have a conspiracy + self-help site FIT (finale in three is gold)
02:29:14 <antivigilante> FIT would be great for it
02:30:04 <Gregor> antivigilante: That ... was the most incomprehensible sentence I have ever read.
02:31:03 <antivigilante> Gregor could you add like an 8th rest so Fluidsynth doesn't drop it
02:31:23 <Gregor> antivigilante: Exactly what I'm doing :P
02:31:37 <quintopia> The sainted sentence barked wistfully reminiscent of transparent golden emotional smypathies in clever Hungarian dog-faced noodle branches.
02:32:01 <quintopia> in my humble opinion
02:32:09 <antivigilante> let me ask again - i'd like to feature this piece
02:33:37 <Gregor> antivigilante: All of my works are under CC-by-sa
02:34:23 <Gregor> But wait until I've fixed the weirdness in this ...
02:36:21 <zzo38> Try to write a music using non-standard notes other than 12-TET in some time. Try writing Bohlen-Pierce, and whatever else you can come up with
02:37:46 <Gregor> zzo38: I did once ... I ended up writing something that was just really out-of-tune 12-TET, and then rewriting that into ... Opus 8 maybe?
02:39:51 <zzo38> Gregor: Try something else, instead of just writing really out-of-tune 12-TET.... I have written a few Bohlen-Pierce musics
02:40:34 <Gregor> It wasn't my intent to write out-of-tune 12-TET X-P
02:41:51 <zzo38> Gregor: That is what I thought. What was your intent?
02:42:25 <Gregor> IIRC, it was equal-temperament 10-ary octaves.
02:43:07 <quintopia> sounds awful
02:43:34 <zzo38> Perhaps try something else next time, other than equal-temperament 10-ary octaves, and then see if you can do it better without making the same mistake
02:43:37 <quintopia> but, you know, hearing nothing but 12-TET musics for 25 years can make any variation sound awful
02:44:14 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2.ogg updated, others forthcoming, http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2.mid for whoever wanted a digital piano roll.
02:44:37 <zzo38> Forms of just-intonation can work well for music that does a good use of it.
02:45:00 <quintopia> suggestion: try mixing 12-TET with just intonation in some key. it can have some very interesting effects.
02:47:01 <Gregor> Anyway, my next musical directions are either making a real acoustic version of zee3 (which may very well be worthy of becoming Opus 14) or making a conductor program and using it to make a concerto that actually doesn't sound horrible played by a computer.
02:47:21 <quintopia> notable work of this form: Tombeau de Messin by Jonathan Harvey
02:48:39 <zzo38> I am trying to add some features to PPMCK
02:49:16 <Gregor> quintopia: btw, what's your piano soundfont that's so much better than mine?
02:51:27 <lament> what does a conductor program do?
02:51:39 <lament> quintopia: bullshit
02:51:47 <lament> about any variation sounding awful
02:51:53 <lament> gamelan sounds pretty great
02:52:02 <lament> most variations sound awful because they are awful
02:52:38 <lament> they're invented by shitty musicians who care about music theory more than about music
02:52:46 <Gregor> lament: Hypothetically, allows one to add human tempo and dynamics to inhuman MIDI data. An example of such a program is Tapper, which works well but IMHO isn't suitable for multiple instruments.
02:53:00 <lament> oh, sounds cool
02:53:06 * Gregor applauds lament's willingness to say things that Gregor is thinking :P
02:54:18 <catseye> Gregor: SO when you said you were writing a conductor you were *not* referring to a bfjoust strategy?
02:54:32 <Gregor> catseye: ... *sobblecopter*
02:55:46 <antivigilante> 10ary?
02:55:58 <catseye> could always try to make it a polyglot i suppose
02:56:00 <Gregor> lament: My conductor program concept is that you go from flat MIDI to good MIDI through two phases. First you tap out the tempo, and it inserts, say, 10 tempo-change events per beat to give it a smooth tempo variation while keeping the note timing right. Then, once per instrument, you play to add dynamics, with both tapping on keys to get the coarse/attack dynamics and some kind of joystick to get the fine/decay dynamics.
02:56:29 <antivigilante> like movie editing
02:56:40 <lament> c-razy
02:56:51 <catseye> ahhh i wanna see a movie edited like that
02:57:01 <antivigilante> that's what they do
02:57:26 <catseye> well, i'm thinking more like if you could hook up a baton as the input device
02:57:47 <Gregor> catseye: AKA a wiimote
02:57:57 <catseye> Gregor: WIITON
02:58:10 <Gregor> catseye: But I don't think that's sufficiently helpful in and of itself, frankly. I really like Tapper's interface.
02:59:01 <catseye> ok
02:59:07 <catseye> well, i'm not stopping you, i guess
02:59:19 <Gregor> All that's stopping me is priorities :P
02:59:26 <catseye> per earlier (non) agreement, that means nothing stopping me from writing a specializer
02:59:31 <catseye> but first
02:59:34 <catseye> heavy drinking
03:00:00 <lament> !
03:00:38 <pikhq> Gregor: Okay, so it's Kanntàkutâ, then.
03:00:42 <Gregor> Followed by light drinking, followed by heavy petting, followed by light regrets, followed by heavy coffee, followed by very heavy regrets.
03:00:46 <Gregor> pikhq: ?
03:01:02 <pikhq> Gregor: I am forcing you to have a shitty name.
03:01:55 * Gregor wonders to which word the pressed one refers ...
03:02:42 <catseye> clog seems a mite broken today
03:02:47 <Gregor> Quite.
03:03:23 <catseye> Gregor: the word "petting". Not while the horrors of the FURRY-INFESTED OS are still fresh in my mind, you see.
03:03:45 <Gregor> pikhq: It took me an ENORMOUS amount of time to realize that Kanntàkutâ is stupid-Japanese for "conductor"
03:04:01 <Gregor> Like, three minutes.
03:05:37 <pikhq> \o/
03:08:45 <pikhq> áìųëō If only my romanisation scheme could produce such a smattering of diacritics normally.
03:08:54 <pikhq> Sadly, it cannot.
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03:11:21 <pikhq> I shall need to get creative, and encode things nobody could possibly care about.
03:11:24 <pikhq> :P
03:12:34 * pikhq is thinking something like, oh, the Old Japanese vowel system.
03:19:26 <catseye> except probabilistic
03:26:03 <pikhq> Sure.
03:27:30 <zzo38> I don't think there is a need for Japanese romanisation scheme with strange marks, since if unicode is available, you can just write using hiragana/katakana, anyways.
03:27:56 <catseye> but how else will we reach the satellite?
03:28:42 <catseye> oh, perhaps that's just my shattered outlook on the world talking.
03:29:06 <catseye> anyway, no way i can write a specializer right now. although i can see a couple of ways it could be done.
03:29:33 <catseye> and a couple of ways in which it really cannot be done. because of that ol' undecidability thing.
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03:30:41 <catseye> it'
03:30:57 <pikhq> zzo38: The point is I ♥ đìäçŕīṫıçŝ.
03:34:28 <catseye> the central problem wrt the 3rd projection is that the easiest way to do the 1st 2 projections is to have a dedicated language suited to interpreters (an easily identifiable command to do the "fetch execute" cycle, for example) and this language is kind of *ill* suited for writing a specializer.
03:34:59 <catseye> so you turn the specializer on itself and it just goes 'whut?'
03:35:10 <catseye> although.........
03:38:18 <catseye> Gregor: HOW COME YOU DON'T WRITE MORE MUSIC LIKE THIS http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qe1ScoePqVA
03:38:43 <Gregor> catseye: Dude, I WROTE THAT.
03:38:50 <catseye> Gregor: DUUUUUUUUUUUUDE
03:38:52 <Gregor> Back in my afro days/daze
03:38:58 * catseye <3's Gregor
03:39:41 <pikhq> Gregor: HOW COME YOU DON'T WRITE MORE MUSIC LIKE THIS file:///dev/random
03:39:52 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
03:39:58 <Gregor> pikhq: Dude, I WROTE THAT.
03:40:06 <Gregor> Back in my avant garde days/daze
03:43:44 * catseye roots around for the surviving copies of the music he's written
03:44:01 <catseye> I don't suppose you can play MED files
03:45:10 <catseye> which means, I'm gonna have to convert it, which means, euurrr
03:45:13 <catseye> i've done it before
03:45:15 <catseye> it can be done
03:45:21 <catseye> but i have no frickin clue how anymore
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03:47:49 <catseye> ever think about the shannon-fano trees that are encoded in the control neuron pathways going to your fingers HU
03:48:04 <catseye> well they're not shannon-fano trees but
03:48:11 <catseye> they're something close right?
03:50:26 <catseye> and they're somewhere in your CNS, like, you're brain, not the control neurons themselves most likely
03:50:31 <catseye> *your
03:50:36 <catseye> SEE?
03:51:39 -!- calamari has joined.
03:52:42 <catseye> hi calamari
03:52:55 <calamari> hey
03:53:40 <catseye> calamari: what OS are you running?
03:53:43 <calamari> so I was given that "create groups" feature on facebook
03:53:54 <calamari> I'm running Ubuntu
03:54:18 <catseye> calamari: cheers. so am I. I'm going to see if you can listen to my music! (what's left of it)
03:54:28 <calamari> okay
03:54:29 <catseye> but what's a "create groups" feature?
03:54:54 <calamari> that's where you can automatically add your friends to a group.. for example, GNAA..
03:55:21 <lament> my friends are already in GNAA
03:55:34 <quintopia> gregor: i dunno if it sounds better yet. i did spend a long time coaxing it to be full stereo (bass notes on the left, high treble on the right) like a real piano.
03:56:01 <calamari> anyhow, it's a retarded feature that hopefully will be removed soon
03:56:02 <Gregor> quintopia: Coaxing your soundfont or my midi? My soundfont is like that anyway (so much so that I have to reduce it in post)
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03:56:35 <pikhq> Gregor: Baaah, just get a real piano.
03:56:39 <pikhq> Gregor: (and a pony!)
03:57:00 <Gregor> A good enough soundfont has advantages over a real piano. Also disadvantages.
03:57:00 <calamari> hey antichrist
03:57:43 <pikhq> David Firth is apparently making a feature-length film.
03:57:51 <pikhq> I'm frightened.
03:58:39 <calamari> I still enjoy my roland scb-55 midi daughterboard
04:02:39 <Gregor> calamari: That's meeeeeeeeeeee
04:03:29 * pikhq needs to do homework...
04:03:46 <quintopia> gregor: i may have to coax your midi too, since midi just doesn't do adsr right when converted to it format
04:03:59 <quintopia> also, it looks like you played this by hand on a keyboard
04:04:04 <Gregor> Yes, I did.
04:04:13 <Gregor> I won't give you a raw MIDI, it would sound like shit :P
04:04:31 <Gregor> Err, s/raw/from notation only/
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04:04:37 <calamari> Gregor: may I please, I want to hear it on my roland :)
04:05:13 <Gregor> calamari: http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2.mid
04:05:14 <calamari> I assume you didn't just overlay grand piano with a string font
04:05:29 <Gregor> ... wtf?
04:05:40 <Gregor> Are we talking about the same thing? :P
04:05:53 <Gregor> You must be talking about Op. 11 string quartet?
04:05:58 <calamari> yeah
04:06:07 <calamari> that was cool, guess that's not this, sorry
04:06:08 <Gregor> Ah, he's talking about op. 13 mov. 2 X-P
04:06:24 -!- Slereah has joined.
04:06:30 <Gregor> I don't have that in MIDI form, at least not real MIDI form ...
04:06:41 <Gregor> .rg doesn't like to export to MIDI when you have tempo ramping.
04:06:56 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
04:07:12 <Gregor> Plus I'm not using a GM soundbank for output, so all the instruments would be wrong.
04:07:25 -!- yiyus has joined.
04:07:41 <calamari> yeah that's what I was asking
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04:08:01 <calamari> hmm no midis are playing, guess I'd better troubleshoot that first
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04:08:37 <Gregor> If you're willing to fix the instruments yourself, I'll make a .mid
04:08:53 <Gregor> It won't be notationable.
04:09:01 <calamari> nah that's okay
04:09:43 <calamari> I wouldn't know which ones were supposed to be what and I'd be bugging you lol
04:09:55 <calamari> okay there we go
04:10:28 <catseye> STEP ONE: sudo apt-get install xmp
04:10:31 <calamari> op13 is gm tho, right?
04:10:36 <catseye> STEP TWO: wget http://catseye.tc/music/med/anagnoresis.med
04:10:46 <calamari> sounds awesome so far
04:10:46 <catseye> STEP THREE: xmp anagnoresis.med
04:10:57 <Gregor> calamari: op. 13 is only piano :P
04:11:13 <calamari> which happens to be great on the roland soundcanvas :)
04:11:14 <Gregor> It would be GM even if I didn't specify any programs.
04:12:32 <calamari> catseye: Gregor's song has 5 minutes to go :)
04:12:59 <calamari> programs, thank you
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04:14:26 <catseye> calamari: queue it up! at least meanually. it will be quite the... contrast...
04:14:33 <catseye> *manually
04:15:08 <catseye> I haz teh different style froms Gregor, even whens I te-comperosing der klazzikle-likes.
04:15:16 <calamari> hrm apparently audacious is not cool enough to support meds
04:15:20 <catseye> which this is not
04:15:28 <catseye> no, few things are.
04:15:34 <catseye> i had to hunt for xmp
04:15:37 <catseye> it does it good, though
04:15:56 <catseye> and this is not my best, but it is good to start
04:16:36 <catseye> ach, such primitive tools i was using
04:16:38 <calamari> sudo apt-get --no-install-recommends install xmp
04:16:41 <calamari> :)
04:16:55 <catseye> hm, mine doesn't install the recommends by default... I think...
04:17:12 <calamari> cool wonder how I do that, would be nice on my wii
04:18:10 <calamari> should I be hearing something while the dots are going?
04:18:21 <catseye> calamari: .... dots... ?
04:18:47 <catseye> calamari: xmp shows me a line like: Tempo[05] BPM[21] Pos[18/19] Pat[12/12] Row[16/3F] Chn[03/04]
04:18:50 <calamari> Stored patterns: 4864 ....................... (etc)
04:19:14 <catseye> I see: Stored patterns: 19 ...................
04:19:22 <catseye> then there are more lines and then the line i pasted
04:19:27 <calamari> apparently mine is corrupted
04:19:31 <catseye> gnnnrrrr
04:19:35 <calamari> Module title : -0* "&)3 ���������������#
04:19:43 <catseye> yeeeah
04:19:52 <catseye> let me see if I uploaded that goodly or not
04:21:26 <catseye> yeah it did not survive the upload it seems. let me try again
04:21:48 <quintopia> gregor: mpt doesn't do ADSR to the extent i would need to coax soundfont to act right. i'd have to go through and put note offs earlier on almost every high note to fix it. so your font is better.
04:22:37 <catseye> weird, it... does not like me
04:22:43 <calamari> ftp?
04:23:05 <calamari> (don't forget binary mode)
04:24:59 <catseye> calamari: yeah, it was on "auto" and it thought it was text I guess
04:25:06 <catseye> calamari: try d/l'ing same file again
04:26:00 <calamari> Gregor: cool your midi killed noteedit
04:26:07 <Gregor> SWEET
04:26:31 <calamari> catseye there now it's working
04:26:32 <Gregor> calamari: Presumably it's trying to notate?
04:26:39 <calamari> yeah
04:26:48 <Gregor> Hyuk
04:27:50 <catseye> calamari: cool
04:29:43 <pikhq> I love overkill sometimes.
04:29:54 * pikhq is... Using set builder notation for writing domains.
04:30:11 <coppro> pikhq: I thought you passed high school
04:30:40 <calamari> haven't listened to my mods in a while, need to
04:30:44 <pikhq> coppro: For some stupid reason, this damned calc class is having a few homework problems assigned concerning domains and ranges of N-dimensional functions.
04:30:51 <pikhq> coppro: Fucking retarded, I know.
04:32:05 <catseye> apparently i had this thing where I would write in ABA format, with A in a minor key and very funky, and B in a major key and very happy
04:32:29 <pikhq> So, yeah. I'm using set builder notation because dammit I can.
04:32:33 <catseye> (this was... like 1991-1992... pre-Befunge)
04:34:11 <coppro> pikhq: What school?
04:34:21 <pikhq> "Pikes Peak Community College".
04:34:32 <pikhq> I'm taking this class there because it's cheap and I'm cheap.
04:36:48 <lament> ABBA
04:39:04 <catseye> I'm not being fair to myself. Several of them go like ABAC ending on a completely different pattern
04:40:47 <catseye> also, I think xmp can play .lha'ed files directly
04:40:53 <catseye> calamari, Gregor: http://catseye.tc/music/med/retrograde.lha
04:41:04 <Gregor> I ... don't know what a .lha is.
04:41:11 <catseye> Gregor: xmp will know.
04:41:19 <Gregor> I don't have xmp
04:41:20 <calamari> compressed format from the stone ages
04:41:21 <catseye> It's an ancient archive format.
04:41:23 <catseye> Gregor: GET IT
04:41:27 <catseye> (sorry to channel alise)
04:41:30 <Gregor> Is there a command-line equivalent that will also know?
04:41:35 <Gregor> (I assume xmp is X-mp)
04:41:37 <catseye> Gregor: sudo apt-get install xmp
04:41:56 <Gregor> catseye: Cool kids use aptitude
04:41:58 <catseye> xmp is all command line afaict
04:42:01 <catseye> Gregor: w/e
04:42:09 * calamari gets to try out this lha program
04:42:10 <catseye> (=whatever JUST GET IT)
04:42:12 <Gregor> Okidoke.
04:42:24 <catseye> if it can't handle lha, it sucks. also lha is easy to get
04:42:28 <Gregor> What is .tc anyway ...
04:42:38 <catseye> and I can point you to an unlha'ed version
04:42:41 <calamari> retrograde- Melted : oooooooooo
04:42:57 <Gregor> Yeah, xmp can't handle lha :P
04:43:03 <Gregor> But lha can!
04:43:10 <catseye> .tc is like, some island in somewhere ocean-like who charges five times as much per year for the privledge of using their TLD
04:43:24 <Gregor> Gee, how trackery.
04:43:28 <catseye> but catseye was free!
04:43:33 <catseye> available.
04:43:35 <Gregor> codu.org is not free.
04:43:38 <Gregor> Was available.
04:43:43 <Gregor> And is at a TLD people recognize :P
04:43:50 <catseye> Gregor: it's what i had at my disposal. Well, that and DMCS
04:44:05 <catseye> also, re ending, it was meant to be repeatable
04:44:30 <catseye> i wonder why my xmp seems to be happy as shit processing an .lha file
04:44:39 <calamari> this would be good for like a side scrolling platformer
04:44:41 <Gregor> This is a style of music I can't write. Or even consider writing. Or even consider considering.
04:44:51 <catseye> calamari: I've had other people tell me that multiple times...
04:45:08 <catseye> I write video game music, apparently.
04:45:57 <catseye> .tc = "Turks and Calcos islands"
04:46:12 <catseye> I don't even know where that is or what kind of government I am supporting with my domain name $$$.
04:46:30 <catseye> Sorry, "Caicos"
04:46:32 <Gregor> All 0 of the $$$s?
04:46:54 <catseye> Gregor: it's not FREE free
04:47:04 <coppro> catseye: A corrupt government that's currently suspended by the UK parliament for good reason
04:47:08 <Gregor> Oh, hahah, that "available" was a clarification :P
04:47:11 <catseye> coppro: right ON.
04:47:21 <calamari> I'm using mydomains.com, the cheesiest registrar ever, but they've actually been good to me
04:47:35 <coppro> (but, since they're being administered by the UK, one would hope the next government is not as corrupt)
04:48:02 <coppro> the actual nation is a handful of islands in the Carribean with a massive wealth gap typical of Carribean nations
04:48:10 <quintopia> Game will have narrative: "Hopefully there'll be some kind of narrative into the game. Like some kind of overarching goal that you could reach. But the idea is to have it really difficult, so it would be like NetHack, you don't win the game, you just hear about the people win the game." (39:10)
04:48:30 <calamari> currently kidsquid.com is a steaming pile of shit tho.. shouldn't have gone with zymic hosting
04:48:32 <quintopia> i might just buy minecraft when it is finished and i have the computer to run it
04:49:10 <calamari> Gregor: oh btw.. KLAX
04:49:30 <Gregor> calamari: IT IS THE NINETIES
04:49:36 <Gregor> calamari: AND THERE IS TIME FOR KLAX
04:50:00 <calamari> especially when you're getting sued for your tetris game
04:51:16 <Gregor> I was wondering if anybody would ever get that reference :P
04:51:35 <Gregor> Be ashamed that you did ;)
04:51:35 <catseye> Gregor: i totally got it because I AM OLD
04:51:36 <calamari> yeah I actually own a license to the klax rom
04:51:54 <catseye> calamari: w00t
04:52:04 <calamari> got it from starroms
04:52:21 <calamari> which is long defunct of course
04:52:53 <calamari> I am also sad to say that my 5200 basic compiler was used to bring to life a horrible port of to the atari 5200
04:53:38 <catseye> calamari: if you can stand more: this is slightly different style but has been explicitly called "this should be in a platformer!": http://catseye.tc/music/med/you_drive_me_wild.med
04:53:57 <catseye> also, it features something I can only describe as, "duelling melodies"
04:54:15 <catseye> and in an amiga tracker that means, one in L, the other in R
04:54:42 <catseye> also, some really messed up chords (like... C+E+F, whatever that is)
04:54:57 <catseye> yet, it works, or at least fails to fail badle
04:54:59 <calamari> that's a fungechord
04:55:01 <catseye> *bdaly
04:55:03 <catseye> YES
04:55:12 <catseye> *b a d l y
04:56:11 <Gregor> catseye: I disagree with the notion that this should be in platformer.
04:56:23 <Gregor> catseye: This should be in NES porn.
04:56:29 <calamari> my only musical talent is limited to badly playing my harmonica, and since I won't be getting a millionizer 2000 anytime soon, you won't have to hear it
04:56:47 <calamari> yeah this isn't platformer, sorry
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04:57:02 <catseye> well, the critic *was* crazy.
04:57:07 <pikhq> My musical talent consists of being out of practice.
04:57:22 <pikhq> Except for being able to learn music quickly. Still got that.
04:57:38 <catseye> whoever he was. i forget now. but these were distributed with my university email address (umpresse@umanitoba.ca) and I got teh one email response.
04:57:59 <zzo38> Do you know of a NES code to divide by three?
04:58:04 <calamari> beatles rock band on drums is fun.. I suck horribly, although I was starting to be able to play some songs in medium
04:58:14 <catseye> zzo38: 6502.org should have something!
04:58:16 <coppro> I'm good at knowing which part of a song comes next
04:58:17 <coppro> that's about it
04:58:19 <calamari> interesting drum solo
04:59:05 <catseye> coppro: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Cnc7wm-dg
05:00:19 <pikhq> calamari: That's quite some lack of talent. :P
05:00:45 <calamari> pikhq: thank you sir
05:00:51 <coppro> no, this is the best lack of talent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOUsbtUrXHk
05:01:14 <coppro> (except for the poor timpani player)
05:02:12 <calamari> awesome
05:02:32 <calamari> it made me laugh, so they win
05:03:29 <catseye> OH GOD
05:03:52 <catseye> H DEAR GOD
05:03:58 <zzo38> I found general multiply/divide code, but I only need to divide a sixteen bit number by a constant. Divide by 2 is easy, I already have that code. But now I need to make it divide by 3, also (using the conditional compile)
05:05:18 <calamari> does the answer have to be exactly right?
05:05:22 <pikhq> The US is now number 49 on life expectancy.
05:06:09 <Gregor> pikhq: I'll bet if you listed each state, several of them would be in the top 10.
05:06:30 <calamari> zzo38: for example 85/256 = 0.332...
05:06:43 <coppro> pikhq: list?
05:06:55 <coppro> Gregor: and pennsylvania would be at the bottom?
05:07:40 <zzo38> calamari: Dividing by 2 or by 256 is easy. I only need an integer result, anyways.
05:08:01 <zzo38> But I need divide by 3. I already have the code to divide by 2.
05:08:32 <calamari> zzo38: yeah I'm saying to divide by 3, multiply by 85
05:08:44 <pikhq> Gregor: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/sep2006/db20060913_099763.htm
05:09:25 <Gregor> pikhq: That neither confirms nor denies my claim.
05:09:27 <catseye> calamari: that's nifty
05:09:40 <zzo38> calamari: O, OK.
05:09:41 <pikhq> Gregor: I'm trying to find the WHO list.
05:10:04 <calamari> but the answer won't be 100% correct
05:11:05 <zzo38> I need to divide number as large as 0x0800 so it won't fit in 16-bits multiplying by 85
05:11:21 <pikhq> Gregor: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy&oldid=389988170 Well, here's one that appears to be have a different ranking.
05:11:22 <calamari> weird what am I doing wrong, it's not working anyhow
05:11:28 <pikhq> (38 instead of 49.)
05:12:20 <calamari> ahh there it goes hehe
05:12:28 <zzo38> And you can be right about not perfectly correct. It is off by 2
05:12:39 <Gregor> calamari: Swaziland is in the middle ages. Huzzah!
05:13:45 <calamari> so is Arizona
05:14:37 <pikhq> It seems that we've some states with absolutely appaling life expectancies.
05:14:46 <pikhq> I mean, DC. 72? Seriously? WTF.
05:15:10 <pikhq> If DC were a nation it'd just barely be in the top 100.
05:15:23 <catseye> and DC isn't even a state
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05:15:50 <pikhq> catseye: Yes, yes, I know, but it's effectively a very small one. ... With no representation.
05:15:51 <catseye> it's like this non-represented region
05:16:00 <catseye> AND THE CAPITAL IS THERE
05:16:09 <catseye> the sense this is making! oh!
05:16:16 <coppro> pikhq: Puerto Rico has a higher life expectancy than the US average
05:16:24 <pikhq> Yup. Can't vote for President *if you'd be his neighbor*.
05:16:27 <pikhq> coppro: Damn.
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05:19:03 <catseye> Vorpal will love this one: http://catseye.tc/music/med/after_the_fact.med
05:19:07 <catseye> because of the organ.
05:19:20 <catseye> Actually I'm pretty sure he won't like any of them.
05:19:26 <catseye> Because of the trackerness.
05:21:18 <catseye> But this one has been relegated to, not a platformer, but the soundtrack of a cop/spy movie of some sort.
05:21:37 <calamari> yeah it's spy hunter
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05:22:35 <calamari> err no it's not nm lol
05:26:42 <catseye> http://catseye.tc/music/med/autumn_kiss.med
05:27:03 <catseye> http://catseye.tc/music/med/red_quarks.med
05:27:19 <catseye> I think those are the 2 remaining ones
05:27:34 <catseye> actually, there is another one, but it's so not as good as I remember
05:27:39 <GreaseMonkey> med?!?!
05:27:44 <GreaseMonkey> let's see if mikmod can take this
05:27:46 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: MED!
05:27:50 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: xmp, if it can't
05:28:04 <GreaseMonkey> yeah i thought it could
05:28:11 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: I know some modplayers don't do the transpose, which makes at least one of my meds fail superbadways
05:28:13 <GreaseMonkey> med's apparently quite common
05:28:29 <GreaseMonkey> wait what transpose thing?
05:28:42 <GreaseMonkey> autumn kiss sound like it's a million miles
05:28:55 <GreaseMonkey> i think it's doing the speeds wrong
05:29:14 <GreaseMonkey> schismtracker does a better job with the speed
05:29:20 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: one of my meds uses a sample that is not as C - it's at E - so I used "track transpose -4" or something to adjust it -- but some players don't implement that. result: SHIT
05:29:31 <GreaseMonkey> 1992 what the hell i was born in 1991
05:29:39 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: uh yeah, autumn kiss is supposed to be ballad-ish
05:29:42 <calamari> LOL
05:30:19 <GreaseMonkey> ok what the hell why does schism load it with an !xx command instead of just SETTING THE DAMN VOLUME COLUMN LIKE THE MOD LOADER DOES
05:31:05 <GreaseMonkey> is red_quarks a 4-channel med?
05:31:19 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: yes. they're all 4-channel
05:31:24 <GreaseMonkey> hmmkay
05:31:24 <catseye> (mine)
05:31:51 <GreaseMonkey> ahaha amiga electric guitar
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05:35:20 <catseye> am putting together an index page for ease of downloading
05:40:37 <zzo38> The reason for dividing by three is so that I can add a #TRITAVE command into PPMCK.
05:41:02 -!- flippo has changed nick to frivol.
05:41:40 <zzo38> I am already working on making the #CUSTOM-TUNING command work, so that you can use just intonation or any other scale that has up to sixteen notes
05:43:14 <catseye> GreaseMonkey: http://catseye.tc/music/med/
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05:48:06 <catseye> i have only a vague idea of what i mean by "sci-fi funk"
05:48:49 <augur> heyo
05:49:43 <pikhq> Absurdly easy yet tedious homework, fin.
05:50:21 <pikhq> (yes, I get that freaking continuity & limits work in 3 dimensions. I don't need to spend 1.5 hours demonstrating this, kthx)
05:55:07 <catseye> Gregor: you should hear my classical shit sometime. I've written a string quartet, and a strings and woodwinds septet, and a couple of other fairly weird things. You'd hate them. Fortunately for you, they're mostly lost.
05:55:38 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/op11/GRegor-op11-StringQuartet.ogg I too have written a string quartet.'
05:55:46 <catseye> Yes, I know.
05:56:01 <catseye> Was listening to it earlyer.
05:56:12 <catseye> s/y/i/
05:57:03 <coppro> hmm... curse you, this last question on this math assignment
05:59:46 <pikhq> Gregor: You seem to suffer from the curse of being skilled at multiple things. How do you deal with time allocation for it?
05:59:49 <pikhq> ...
05:59:59 * pikhq looks at Gregor's progress on various things
06:00:05 <pikhq> Ah, right. Like mere mortals.
06:04:57 <catseye> calamari: The "Spy Hunter" theme is "Peter Gunn", iirc
06:05:26 <catseye> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcflCzZlLcQ
06:06:38 <catseye> and yes, "After the Fact" is... inspired a bit by that :)
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06:09:00 <Gregor> http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2.pdf
06:09:00 <catseye> oh and for good measure!
06:09:01 <catseye> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWGeRgFa-hI
06:09:10 <Gregor> For awesome pain, read page five of http://codu.org/music/op13/GRegor-op13-mov2.pdf !
06:10:32 <catseye> Gregor: MOAR FIVE FOUR
06:10:58 <Gregor> ... that is totally words.
06:11:02 <catseye> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faJE92phKzI
06:11:51 <catseye> &equiv;
06:12:10 <catseye> i'm surprised lilypond can do that
06:12:16 <Gregor> MUAHAHAHAHA
06:13:42 <catseye> firefox + Gregor's oggs = bad news
06:13:49 <Gregor> ?
06:13:54 <Gregor> E_WORKSFORME
06:14:32 <catseye> it used to give me a nice little slider plus play and pause buttons
06:14:41 <catseye> now, it does a visualization thing in the window
06:14:44 <Gregor> Yeah, that's built into Firefox.
06:14:49 <catseye> WHICH I TOTALLY NEED
06:14:56 <Gregor> Also built into Firefox :P
06:15:37 <catseye> i have a pie here
06:17:53 <Gregor> Urgh
06:17:56 <Gregor> You make me want pie.
06:18:04 <catseye> pumpkin pie!
06:18:17 <Gregor> Worse yet, I could easily get pie (probably even pumpkin pie) in spite of the fact that it's 1:20AM.
06:19:08 <catseye> The status bar says "Stopped", yet the visualization proceeds, choppily.
06:19:37 <catseye> The US: 24-hour triviallest-desire-fullfilment.
06:21:03 <catseye> Ah there we go
06:21:11 <catseye> (Finale in 3)
06:22:41 <Gregor> ?
06:23:47 <catseye> Satie -> Gerschwin -> Tschiakovsky (slightly tipsy) -> Satie -> ...
06:23:56 <Gregor> X-D
06:24:40 <Gregor> I take that as a rave review :P
06:24:47 <catseye> -> Chopin (?)
06:24:56 <Gregor> Have you listened to movement 1?
06:24:58 <catseye> and then Satie again
06:25:06 <catseye> oh wait
06:25:26 <catseye> I dunno, this part is someone
06:25:36 <catseye> (pg. 4)
06:25:44 <Gregor> Oh, you're actually following along.
06:25:45 <Gregor> That's scary.
06:26:06 <catseye> Oh, pg 5
06:26:16 <catseye> with all the &equiv''s
06:26:28 <catseye> Rachmaninoff! Maybe?
06:26:32 <Gregor> X-D
06:26:42 <Gregor> It's some ridiculous craziness, it must be Rachmaninoff.
06:27:18 <Gregor> So, to be (un)clear):
06:27:42 <Gregor> Satie -> Gerschwin -> Tschiakovsky (slightly tipsy) -> Satie -> Chopin (?) -> Satie (?) -> Mystery composer -> Rachmanninov
06:28:04 <catseye> Ending somewhat ... err... wow
06:28:09 <catseye> I don't know, but nice, anyway.
06:28:38 <Gregor> Satie -> Gerschwin -> Tschiakovsky (slightly tipsy) -> Satie -> Chopin (?) -> Satie (?) -> Mystery composer -> Rachmanninov -> ...??? -> PROFIT
06:28:55 <catseye> YES
06:31:29 <catseye> Gregor: No surprise, we're about a thousand miles apart, musically. I cannot handle the piano for at all or ever. I switched to computer science from music because they wanted me to be able to play the piano. Then I dropped out of CS too, but that's another story.
06:32:35 <catseye> I had a friend who was a composer, and a pianist. He liked Beethoven, and Bartok, a lot.
06:32:41 <Gregor> What did you play? I've heard that complaint before btw (I wanted to do music but I didn't know how to play the piano, in spite of the fact that that's not my instrument)
06:33:09 <calamari> catseye: btw, I enjoyed the med's, thanks
06:33:13 <catseye> I played tuba. And trombone, and euphonium/baritone, but I preferred tuba. And for composition, I preferred orchestra.
06:33:34 <catseye> calamari: thanks for saying so :)
06:33:36 <Gregor> I would prefer to compose for orchestra if I had one lying around :P
06:33:48 <Gregor> (Which is why I want to write a conductor program)
06:33:49 <catseye> Gregor: yeah, kind of an expensive instrument to compose for.
06:34:20 <catseye> I almost got a concert band to play my stuff once... ach, but no.
06:34:44 <Gregor> How'd you (almost) accomplish that?
06:35:32 <catseye> Lots of hand-copying individual parts and surreptitiously handing them out and (unsuccessfully) appealing to the conductor to give me some time with the band before practice.
06:35:58 <calamari> I've wondered sometimes.. like John Williams will write some music, and then it'll say orchestrated by xyz. how much of what I'm hearing is actually by xyz and Williams just had a catchy melody line and that's it?
06:36:15 <quintopia> what is the language in which one can write the smallest simplest piece of code that does text-based animation?
06:36:29 <calamari> quintopia: cat?
06:36:48 <quintopia> i mean, requires the least code to do arbitrary like screen buffer updates and stuff
06:36:59 <quintopia> like "put this character here"
06:37:05 <Gregor> ASCIILogo? X-P
06:38:09 <quintopia> I already know the real answer. it's TI-89 BASIC. But, I don't have a functioning TI-89. And the screen would be too small to do what i want anyway.
06:38:23 <quintopia> so, yeah, seriously?
06:38:43 <Gregor> How about OS-level C with a memory-mapped VGA text buffer.
06:38:51 <Gregor> That's just putting stuff in a char * buffer.
06:39:05 <catseye> My vote is Full Moon Fever, but I'm sorely biased.
06:39:12 <catseye> Also, "smallest", no.
06:40:14 <quintopia> small is not as important as simple and quick
06:40:20 <catseye> REPEAT 20 DELCHAR
06:40:31 <catseye> .... or something like that
06:40:36 <quintopia> gregor: how would that work?
06:41:24 <catseye> GO 1 2 CLREOL CENTRE "Enter... the Stupid Guard." 2
06:41:30 <catseye> (apparently)
06:41:42 <Gregor> quintopia: I don't rightly know, but I remember writing a "kernel" once and handling the screen that way ... VGA is memory-mapped to a standard location, so then it's just myscreen[y*160+x*2] = '@'
06:42:05 <quintopia> hmm
06:42:19 <quintopia> that'd be nice, but i don't know the first thing about doing that
06:42:35 <quintopia> also, what did you use to write this score?
06:42:39 <zzo38> I suppose, invent one language for text animation small simple codes
06:42:54 <Gregor> quintopia: Rosegarden to lilypond, then fixes over that lilypond.
06:43:10 <catseye> the second byte of each pair the fg/bg colour attributes, iirc (incl. blink, where that's supported)
06:43:13 <quintopia> complicated
06:43:28 <Gregor> catseye: Yup.
06:44:06 <Gregor> I also wrote a program for doing ASCII-art animations once, but it could only handle input in the form of full-screen frames and timing information.
06:45:33 <catseye> Gregor: So, um. Since I don't think I've heard you say. What composers do you like?
06:46:04 <quintopia> FMF doesn't look so bad, but apparently they only way to use it is in the illgol compiler binary for windows?
06:46:20 <Gregor> catseye: I have an unhealthy relationship with Russian romanticism. Borodin is my favorite composer, with Balakirev, Rimsky-Korsakov, Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky etc as close seconds.
06:46:29 <catseye> quintopia: the only surviving way, yes. unless i can can salvage my amiga disks someday.
06:46:43 <catseye> Gregor: you don't say. interesting.
06:46:53 <Gregor> catseye: As a pianist I'm required to like Chopin and Liszt. And lesse ...
06:47:02 <Gregor> Saint-Saens, Sibelius ...
06:47:15 <lament> what did borodin even write
06:47:16 <Gregor> Well, Beethoven, but that's too easy :P
06:47:34 <Gregor> lament: Borodin's Nocturne from String Quartet #2 is the single greatest piece of music ever written.
06:47:48 <calamari> mp3?
06:47:52 <Gregor> lament: The works from Prince Igor are quite good as well.
06:47:56 <calamari> oh best ever
06:48:01 <calamari> guess that needs to be flac
06:48:06 <Gregor> :P'
06:49:22 <Gregor> lament: Ohhh, and I almost forgot about On the Steppes of Central Asia
06:50:29 <catseye> Gregor: as a non-pianist I am under no obligation to like Chopin, but I do. But my #1 favourite is Prokofiev.
06:50:50 <Gregor> Argh, I can't believe I forgot to mention Prokofiev *smacks self*
06:51:25 <quintopia> <3 prokofiev
06:51:47 <quintopia> opinions on shostakovich?
06:51:55 <Gregor> Plenty :P
06:52:35 <catseye> I was painting a fence on day, and had a radio on, tuned into CBC's "Disc Drive", and Juergen Goeth decided to play the march from "Love for Three Oranges" and I was hooked.
06:53:27 <lament> why are composers all russian
06:54:00 <lament> quintopia: shostakovich wrote the *real* greatest piece of music ever
06:54:03 <catseye> wait, did borodin do
06:54:20 <catseye> YES
06:54:28 <catseye> Prince Igor
06:54:48 <calamari> this 80's midi card is holding up pretty well against your fancy recording
06:54:53 <Gregor> lament: During the Romanticism era, Mussorgsky mixed Romanticism with Russian folk music and produced brilliance. He then convinced five other people to produce such brilliance, and started a trend of Russian music.
06:55:24 <Gregor> lament: Before Romanticism, there was no good Russian music :P
06:55:34 <Gregor> (^^^ totally not a generalization)
06:56:41 <coppro> grammar question: should adverbs be hyphenated (e.g. the nearly clean person vs. the nearly-clean person)
06:56:51 <catseye> The other time that Disc Drive changed my (musical) life was when J.G. decided to play "Pertpetuum Mobile" by the Penguin Cafe Orchestra.
06:57:01 <catseye> coppro: Yes, they should.
06:57:14 <Gregor> coppro: *concurs with catseye*
06:57:21 <coppro> so everyone else just sucks at English?
06:57:45 <Gregor> coppro: More precisely, by the way, adjective phrases should be hyphenated.
06:57:47 <calamari> everyone sucks at English.. how about that? :)
06:58:03 * coppro files unhyphenated adjective phrases with the International Pet Peeve Bureau
06:58:39 <Gregor> However, I've said it once and I'll say it again: The correct way to do it is however everybody does it.
06:58:54 <Gregor> If nobody hyphenates their adjective phrases, then it is no longer standard to hyphenate adjective phrases.
06:59:18 <catseye> The person was nearly clean. The nearly0clean person was far away.
06:59:22 <catseye> s/0/-/
06:59:25 * catseye can't type
07:01:41 <coppro> Gregor: tru
07:01:43 <coppro> *true
07:03:48 <catseye> Also Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Vivaldi, Satie. Lots of others did good stuff too, but those guys stand out.
07:03:54 <catseye> imo.
07:05:27 <catseye> Beethoven is so weird. It's almost like he wasn't a real person. Like Shakespeare, you know? :)
07:06:20 <coppro> yes, Wikipedia agrees with me!
07:06:53 <coppro> I now have a pet peeve of people not hyphenating compound adjectives when using them attributively.
07:07:39 <coppro> *attributively before the noun
07:16:23 * quintopia high-fives the proselytizing descriptivist
07:18:13 <lament> any sort of description must be descriptive
07:19:24 <catseye> say you like what way is all to put stress more onz interpeting mine only
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07:21:39 <catseye> more wrong you "wrong" against edge the push is always flex more NO as while it stands
07:22:50 <quintopia> i can almost parse that
07:23:35 <quintopia> do lesions to wernicke's area result in inability to type comprehensibly too?
07:28:24 <quintopia> translationparty is down :/
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07:58:04 <quintopia> catseye: write me an alpaca line that does "if A has a B west of it then with 9/10 probability it becomes C and with 1/10 probability it becomes D"
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09:54:30 <antivigilante> will aliens scorch the earth before the X1000 arrives?
09:55:05 <oerjan> for now they seem to be satisfying with removing from my brain all knowledge of what X1000 is.
09:55:16 <oerjan> *satisfied
09:55:59 <oerjan> (yeah i left that one in on purpose)
09:56:02 <antivigilante> amiga X1000 a-eon Xorro bus XMOS chip Xena
09:56:16 <oerjan> aha.
09:56:37 <oerjan> actually the X would tend to indicate it is made _by_ aliens.
09:56:45 <antivigilante> your brain is mutiny against you using the english language
09:57:04 <antivigilante> english is turdacular
09:57:22 <oerjan> hvis du sier det så
09:57:39 <oerjan> counterevidence: it was damn hard to get that last norwegian word right
09:57:50 <antivigilante> o, ow, owe, ough - yuck
09:57:56 <cheater> hi
09:58:06 <antivigilante> an oh
09:58:10 <antivigilante> er and
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10:54:43 <oerjan> holy shit http://www.skytopia.com/project/illusion/didgrow.html
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10:58:48 <Ilari> Heh... I'm thinking what's the worst stuff in commonly sold as food that comes from animal products... And the same for plant products... Let's just say the animal stuffs list is much shorter and much more mild...
10:58:54 <Ilari> *milder
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11:04:14 <fizzie> There was one of those "makes your eyesight all screwy" optical illusions shown in the "wild demo" (anything realtime-graphicsy goes) category at Assembly this year; the name was "casual vortex" and the listed 'platform' was "visual cortex".
11:05:21 <tombom> what language was it written in
11:05:55 <fizzie> I don't think that was mentioned anywhere.
11:06:11 <fizzie> This was re "<oerjan> holy shit http://www.skytopia.com/project/illusion/didgrow.html" which you probably didn't see.
11:07:20 <Ilari> I can offhand recall only one bad animal-based food product. Whereas similar list for plants has at least 8, probably all worse than the one entry for animal products...
11:08:04 <fizzie> It seems to have been written in vvvv, in fact.
11:08:26 <tombom> aww man
11:08:34 <tombom> and here i was hoping for another silly answer
11:08:51 <tombom> vvvv looks really interesting actually
11:09:51 <oerjan> ye olde botulinum sausage
11:11:34 <Ilari> That's bacterium toxin... And should not be present in commonly sold food.
11:12:22 <Ilari> And BTW, that 8 entry list does not include alcohol...
11:13:31 <oerjan> also, surströmming
11:14:31 <oerjan> and hákarl
11:15:06 <Ilari> I actually meant "worst" as "most unhealthy", not "most disgusting looking".
11:15:23 <oerjan> well in that case we shouldn't forget fugu
11:16:05 <oerjan> but i guess it may be hard to find a food product that is unhealthy when _properly_ prepared
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12:46:27 <cheater> the problem is, quite often proper preparation includes the trash can
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14:08:45 <elliott> Schemes of dierse orgin!
14:11:04 <ais523> is that a misspelling of "divers"?
14:11:21 <elliott> "Diverse", actually.
14:11:25 <elliott> But, intentional.
14:11:39 <elliott> "Schemes of Divers Origin" would be a good name for an album or something, though.
14:11:44 <pikhq> Diërse orgin?
14:11:55 <ais523> "Divers" is an old-fashioned spelling of "Diverse"
14:12:01 <ais523> which you still come across very occasionally
14:12:08 <ais523> that's what I was referencing
14:12:40 <elliott> right
14:12:52 <elliott> i like the interpretation as people-who-dive even better, though :)
14:13:04 <elliott> "diuers" would be as archaically valid, right?
14:13:12 <elliott> schemes of diuers origin
14:13:15 <ais523> yes, I think so
14:14:04 <elliott> I wonder why Ubuntu doesn't do kexec-reboots for kernel upgrades.
14:15:05 <pikhq> elliott: Perfectly valid. "v" goes at the beginning of words. :)
14:15:17 <elliott> pikhq: how uersatile
14:15:17 <ais523> hmm, if you have to shut down almost all the way, why not hard reboot?
14:15:25 <ais523> the difference is what, a few seconds?
14:15:32 <elliott> ais523: more than that
14:15:35 <elliott> you have the BIOS
14:15:36 <elliott> which takes a few seconds
14:15:38 <elliott> and the bootloader
14:15:48 <elliott> which, if it displays a menu, which is very likely if Windows is installed,
14:15:52 <elliott> could take 5-10 seconds
14:16:03 <elliott> (yes, you can skip it, but there's also no reason at all not to just use kexec)
14:16:03 <ais523> you probably /want/ to go via the bootloader if you just upgraded the kernel
14:16:06 <elliott> why?
14:16:10 <elliott> this is what kexec is designed for
14:16:22 <ais523> because bootloader/kernel compat issues are one of the things you want to be able to catch
14:16:41 <elliott> err, i have never seen such an issue (and besides, it's not like you won't find out next boot)
14:16:49 <ais523> (also, so if the new kernel doesn't work, the bootloader knows it doesn't)
14:16:53 <elliott> linux is generally pretty good at not breaking multiboot...
14:16:59 <elliott> ais523: bootloaders don't store that
14:17:01 <ais523> well, yes
14:17:05 <ais523> the Windows bootloader does
14:17:08 <elliott> not even last-good-boot works like that
14:17:12 <elliott> ais523: the Windows bootloader can't boot linux
14:17:23 <ais523> yep, but I mean it would be a plausible feature to add
14:17:44 <elliott> last-good-boot is better
14:17:54 <elliott> it stores the last kernel that booted, rather than ... what? why would you even store that it doesn't boot?
14:18:15 <ais523> so that you can automatically go to last-good rather than most-recent if most-recent doesn't work
14:18:52 <ais523> which saves time in the morning if you're in the habit of rebooting or shutting down overnight (for stability reasons with Windows, or energy saving reasons with any OS)
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14:25:57 * cpressey escapes from the planet of the robot monsters
14:26:31 <ais523> what were you doing there?
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14:28:30 <cpressey> ais523: it was the nineties, and there was time for it, along with klax
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14:29:20 <quintopia> cpressey!
14:29:35 <cpressey> quintopia!
14:29:43 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover!
14:29:46 <cpressey> wait no
14:29:52 <quintopia> is it the nineties, where there's still time to witness hair on top of steve ballmer's head?
14:30:26 <quintopia> 02:57 < quintopia> catseye: write me an alpaca line that does "if A has a B west of it then with 9/10 probability it becomes C and with 1/10 probability it becomes D"
14:31:08 <cpressey> quintopia: i refer you to the discussion about dividing by 3 on a NES
14:31:32 * ais523 reads the presentation linked from reddit about how to recover from "chmod -x chmod"
14:31:41 <ais523> there's a whole bunch of solutions from there, some of which are ridiculous
14:31:52 <cheater> cpressey: what about dividing by 3 on a nes?
14:32:09 <cheater> is it ... difficult?
14:32:11 <ais523> (someone suggested forcing the directory entry for /bin into cache, then running sed on the computer's memory)
14:32:25 <ais523> cheater: not really, but doing it efficiently is nontrivial
14:33:09 <cpressey> cheater: i believe the suggested trick was to multiply by 85 then divide by 256 to get a factor of 0.334
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14:33:48 <ais523> cpressey: that trick doesn't work with every number IIRC; I'm not sure if it works for 3, and in which range
14:34:23 <cheater> 58/256= 0.3320..
14:34:32 <cpressey> and alpaca only does power-of-2 probabilities(?) so you'd have to do something similar to approximate 10%
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14:36:27 <cpressey> ais523: indeed, it does not work for 3.
14:36:30 <cheater> doesn't 0.9 have a nice expansion in binary?
14:36:50 <ais523> cheater: not an exact finite expansion, no
14:37:07 <ais523> there's an antifactor of 5 in there
14:37:20 <elliott> ais523: link me the presentation?
14:37:23 <cheater> antifactor of 5?
14:37:27 <quintopia> cpressey: i thought i remembered as much, but i couldn't find a english spec of alpaca
14:37:45 <quintopia> cpressey: same question but with 1/8 and 7/8
14:37:47 <ais523> http://www.slideshare.net/cog/chmod-x-chmod
14:37:50 <cpressey> quintopia: did you find one in some other language?
14:37:52 <ais523> annoyingly, in Flash for no reason at all
14:37:57 <ais523> apart from making it hard to copy
14:38:14 <quintopia> cpressey: i couldn't find one in any spoken language actually
14:38:31 <ais523> (my reaction was "use another program that does the same thing", I'd probably have come up with busybox chmod with a bit of thought)
14:38:40 <elliott> ais523: see "Download"
14:38:47 <elliott> i'd just use python
14:38:48 <ais523> elliott: it's a link to a login page
14:38:48 <elliott> to chmod :P
14:38:57 <elliott> ais523: SHEESH JUST USE YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT
14:39:00 * elliott trollin'
14:39:03 <ais523> that solution was already there
14:39:11 <ais523> in several languages
14:39:15 <elliott> heh
14:39:17 <cpressey> ais523: my reaction was to rebuild chmod from source -- but that's bsd thinking i suppose
14:39:29 <ais523> although Perl or Python are best for that, because they're most likely to be installed
14:39:43 <ais523> cpressey: if you had the source handy, that would work fine
14:39:44 <elliott> ais523: bugmenot.com
14:39:47 <elliott> enter "slideshare"
14:39:52 <elliott> see usernames and passwords
14:39:54 <elliott> *slideshare.net
14:39:57 <ais523> I'm at work, I don't want to have to explain that
14:40:05 <ais523> (I am aware of bugmenot.com, though)
14:40:07 <elliott> err? bugmenot is perfectly reputable
14:40:14 <cpressey> ais523: on freebsd, you almost always do (culturally speaking anyway)
14:40:23 <ais523> yep, but going to sites with usernames/passwords you don't own isn't
14:40:33 <ais523> and using bugmenot is quite a giveaway that you're planning that
14:41:13 <ais523> (it's actually the IT staff at the department I was in a couple of years ago that introduced me to bugmenot...)
14:41:20 <elliott> ais523: heh, I like the idea of using the c compiler to get an executable
14:41:24 <elliott> and then catting /bin/chmod to it
14:41:56 <elliott> ais523: but what if you didn't have cc? I'd replace some irrelevant binary with chmod instead
14:42:07 <ais523> you can just copy an existing executable, and cat /bin/chmod to that
14:42:17 <elliott> what if you don't have cp?!?!?!?!
14:42:22 <ais523> (more interesting question: how do you recover from a chmod -R -x /)
14:42:31 <elliott> "$ cp cat new_chmod
14:42:31 <elliott> $ cat chmod > new_chmod"
14:42:31 <elliott> darn
14:42:37 <elliott> ais523: badly
14:42:54 <elliott> using tar to do it, genius
14:42:57 <ais523> in the reddit comments, someone said they'd done that by copying the permissions over from another box using rsync or something
14:43:08 <cpressey> ais523: hello mr. livecd
14:43:12 <ais523> one method not mentioned there: copy chmod to a FAT system, then back again
14:43:17 <elliott> cpressey: wut
14:43:29 <ais523> all files are executable when, say, a USB stick is mounted with default options
14:43:34 <elliott> [[alias chmod='/lib/ld-2.11.1.so ./chmod']]
14:43:36 <elliott> I APPROVE OF THIS
14:43:42 <cpressey> elliott: recover from chmod -R -x by booting off something else and copying stuff over
14:43:52 <ais523> (I use the same method to clear the "downloaded from the Internet" flag in Windows)
14:44:08 <elliott> actually, isn't /lib/ld* a bit of a security hole?
14:44:11 <elliott> it can bypass +x permissions
14:44:14 <elliott> -x that is
14:44:33 <ais523> you can bypass them anyway by copying the executable so you own the copy, then chmodding the copy
14:44:50 <ais523> (I assume it doesn't work if it has both -x and -r permissions)
14:45:23 <cpressey> why is chmod not a sh builtin
14:45:24 <elliott> true
14:45:26 <ais523> -x is only really for a) protecting suid files against being run by the wrong people; b) preventing programs being run by mistake
14:45:31 <cpressey> this is a good argument for it
14:45:32 <elliott> cpressey: please tell me that's sarcasm
14:45:40 <cpressey> elliott: this is a good argument for it
14:45:46 <ais523> I think syscall should be a sh builtin
14:45:48 <elliott> no, shell builtins in general are stupid
14:45:53 <ais523> no need to build in all the actual syscalls one by one!
14:46:01 <elliott> the most i'll accept beyond what actually has to be done in sh is echo
14:46:04 <elliott> since that's so common
14:46:09 <fizzie> For the original program, my instinct would've been perl -e 'chmod 0755, "chmod";'
14:46:13 <ais523> then, you can impliment the other things you need as a library
14:46:14 <fizzie> s/program/problem/
14:46:15 <ais523> glibsh, or whatever
14:46:16 <cpressey> elliott: not even test?
14:46:20 <elliott> fizzie: that's one of their exact solutions, verbatim
14:46:24 <elliott> cpressey: well, ok, test too
14:46:26 <elliott> but nothing more
14:46:35 <fizzie> Oh. Well, "Flash Player 9 (or above) is needed to view presentations."
14:46:40 <elliott> fizzie: login
14:46:43 <elliott> lick download
14:46:43 <cheater> i think the first answer would be
14:46:45 <elliott> *click
14:46:50 <cheater> "what data center has no access to the internet?"
14:46:53 <elliott> fizzie: applejacks for user and pass
14:47:42 <elliott> cpressey: particularly abhorrent is kill being a builtin
14:48:04 <ais523> kill is a /builtin/?
14:48:07 <cpressey> elliott: i'm not a fan of builtins btw, it was just this case that occurred to me.
14:48:22 <cpressey> i don't see why kill should ever be
14:48:24 <ais523> oh, could "kill %1", etc., be easily implemented via an external executable?
14:48:28 <ais523> that might be the reason
14:48:35 <cpressey> except maybe some crazy arhument about "the shell is a job control thing"
14:48:37 <elliott> ais523: well, no, but %x should just expand to a string
14:48:40 <elliott> like ~ does
14:48:48 <quintopia> chmod -rx chmod and the NIC has been stolen. fix it.
14:49:18 <ais523> one of the solutions on the slide there could work (reinstall coreutils from the package manager cache)
14:49:30 <quintopia> i guess perl would still work
14:49:31 <ais523> failing that, reimplementing chmod isn't massively difficult
14:49:35 <ais523> and yes
14:49:52 <ais523> well, "rm -f /bin/chmod" is the next step up, I suppose
14:50:11 <cpressey> sudo apt-get install chmod
14:50:26 <quintopia> its coreutils
14:50:41 <cpressey> people never understand my humor
14:51:09 <quintopia> well i could have responded "Package not found: chmod"
14:51:29 <quintopia> speaking of humor, you never answered my second question
14:51:47 <elliott> someone did "chmod -x chmod" and deleted all other files on the system WHAT NOW
14:52:05 <ais523> what filesystem?
14:52:18 <elliott> ais523: Lowest Common Denominatorfs
14:52:22 <elliott> alternatively
14:52:29 <ais523> if it's FAT, I'd go and get a floppy disk running DOS and try to reconstruct the first letter of every file on the filesystem from memory
14:52:36 <elliott> xD
14:52:38 <cpressey> oh yeah, NOW you are wishing you had some frickin builtins
14:52:41 <elliott> no floppy disks
14:52:44 <elliott> you are locked in a cage
14:52:50 <elliott> the monitor is on the wall
14:52:53 <elliott> the keyboard buttons are on thee things in haskell
17:58:25 <cpressey> foldr1 should totally be called 'join' or something
17:58:41 <Vorpal> cpressey, why join? join sounds like it would be similar to zip to me
17:58:50 <cpressey> i dunno. join is not the best name
17:59:18 <Vorpal> hm
17:59:31 <cpressey> no, i'm thinking of that other function
17:59:33 <Vorpal> cpressey, foldrlast?
17:59:37 <Vorpal> a bit long
17:59:40 <cpressey> the one you can do sum with by passing it '+'
17:59:45 <cpressey> (+) i should say
17:59:55 <elliott> cpressey: SO COMMODORE 64
18:00:02 <cpressey> elliott: SO YEAH TOTALLY
18:00:18 <elliott> foldl/foldl'/foldl1/foldr all sum when passed (+)
18:00:19 <Vorpal> cpressey, hm? sum (+) ?
18:00:24 <Vorpal> that sounds a bit weird
18:00:24 <elliott> although foldl' (+) 0 is probably the one you want
18:00:36 <elliott> cpressey: IT'S TOTALLY THE BEST COMPUTER OF ITS TIME
18:00:53 <elliott> cpressey: OR WHAT ABOUT: ATARI ST
18:01:12 <Vorpal> elliott, whatever Cray was doing at that point
18:01:14 <Vorpal> was best
18:01:17 <Vorpal> very likely
18:01:25 <elliott> cpressey: that Vorpal, ain't he an idiot?
18:01:33 <Vorpal> or hm, probably lisp machines
18:01:51 <cpressey> Vorpal: best for FLAVOUR
18:01:58 <Vorpal> cpressey, ah well, indeed
18:05:40 <cpressey> !haskell :t foldl'
18:06:13 <cpressey> damn you lambdabot for being better than egobot at this and for leaving us
18:06:19 <Vorpal> cpressey, I think it is ghc, not ghci
18:06:34 <cpressey> Vorpal: I've SEEN it do types before, i swear
18:06:47 <Vorpal> hm okay
18:07:06 <cpressey> !help
18:07:06 <EgoBot> help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help <command>.
18:07:14 <cpressey> !haskell [1,2,3]
18:07:22 <EgoBot> [1,2,3]
18:07:34 <cpressey> !haskell :t 1
18:07:37 <EgoBot> 1 :: (Num t) => t
18:07:40 <cpressey> see???
18:07:47 <cpressey> !haskell :t foldl
18:07:55 <EgoBot> foldl :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a
18:07:59 <cpressey> ah
18:08:04 <cpressey> it must not like the ' somehow
18:08:17 <Vorpal> bbl
18:09:00 <cpressey> !haskell foldl (+) 0 [5,6,7]
18:09:08 <EgoBot> 18
18:09:11 <cpressey> huh
18:09:17 <cpressey> i wonder what i was thinking, then
18:09:25 <oerjan> cpressey: :t foldl' didn't work because foldl' is not in the Prelude
18:09:37 <oerjan> !haskell :t Data.List.foldl'
18:09:45 <EgoBot> Data.List.foldl' :: (a -> b -> a) -> a -> [b] -> a
18:11:02 <oerjan> Vorpal: !haskell is _both_ ghci and ghc. it tries the second if the first one errors out.
18:11:31 <Vorpal> huh
18:11:49 <Vorpal> why didn't it give an error if it didn't work?
18:12:14 <oerjan> errors are sent via DCC, usually.
18:12:32 <oerjan> why it doesn't pass even one line i don't know
18:12:41 <oerjan> !haskell :t foldl'
18:12:55 <oerjan> hm no DCC either
18:13:06 <oerjan> i vaguely recall :t does that, no idea why
18:13:25 <Vorpal> "Prelude> :t foldl'
18:13:26 <Vorpal> <interactive>:1:0: Not in scope: `foldl''
18:13:26 <Vorpal> "
18:13:28 <Vorpal> is what I get
18:13:57 <oerjan> yes. however that's from ghci and if it errors out it passes to ghc.
18:14:17 <oerjan> you never get ghci errors with !haskell
18:16:22 <oerjan> !haskell {- -} :t foldl'
18:16:28 <elliott> wait, no, me menu != messaging menu
18:16:42 <elliott> !sh ghci -e ":t foldl'"
18:16:54 <elliott> works, sort of
18:16:59 <elliott> !sh ghci -e ":t foldl'" 2>&1 | tr -d '\n'
18:17:04 <EgoBot> <interactive>:1:0: Not in scope: `foldl''
18:17:57 <oerjan> incidentally !haskell {- -} :t foldl' gave a parse error in DCC
18:18:29 <Vorpal> oerjan, why?
18:19:20 <oerjan> um because it's neither correct ghci (the : must start the line) nor ghc (: cannot start a declaration)
18:19:57 <Vorpal> ah
18:20:03 <oerjan> still no idea why :t foldl' alone gives no error message
18:20:53 <oerjan> unless... maybe ghci somehow doesn't give an error back to the shell for it
18:20:54 <cpressey> yes, it's the fold*1 functions that should be called 'join'. duh
18:21:12 <oerjan> cpressey: join is already taken for a monadic function, though
18:21:19 <cpressey> snap
18:22:21 <Vorpal> oerjan, what is wrong with foldrfromlist or such?
18:22:28 <Vorpal> not every name has to be short
18:22:53 <cpressey> oerjan: is there a mapUntil?
18:22:54 <oerjan> tell that to the haskell committee
18:23:10 <cpressey> wait why am i asking you when there is an internet here
18:23:11 <oerjan> cpressey: um what would that do?
18:23:22 <oerjan> not by that name anyway
18:23:22 <cpressey> oerjan: well, i wrote one for some reason
18:23:29 <Vorpal> oerjan, combine takeWhile and map maybe?
18:23:50 <oerjan> Vorpal: i'm asking cpressey
18:23:51 <elliott> oerjan: it puts a newline before
18:23:53 <elliott> so, for instance
18:23:54 <elliott> my !sh
18:23:56 <elliott> gives an error in dcc
18:23:58 <cpressey> why oh why does pastie.org not just list all the possible highlightings in its dropdown
18:23:59 <elliott> but not on stdout
18:24:13 <elliott> cpressey: err, doesn't it?
18:24:27 <elliott> oh the more...
18:24:30 <cpressey> elliott: http://pastie.org/1216028 please ignore the fact that 'mapRest' is useless
18:24:37 <cpressey> elliott: and haskell is a more
18:24:37 <Vorpal> oerjan, I was just suggesting the obvious interpretation!
18:24:55 <cpressey> mapRest is what you laugh at
18:24:59 <elliott> cpressey: i don't see how map applies there
18:25:02 <elliott> brb reboot
18:25:04 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review).
18:25:29 <cpressey> also laugh at the accumulator style in haskell
18:25:40 <cpressey> (i started in erlang!)
18:25:53 <cpressey> errr
18:26:00 <cpressey> i meant to direct that pastie at oerjan
18:26:07 <cpressey> oerjan: http://pastie.org/1216028 please ignore the fact that 'mapRest' is useless
18:26:25 * Vorpal accumulates cpressey
18:28:17 <cpressey> wait what the hell did i write here??
18:28:45 <Vorpal> cpressey, hm?
18:28:50 * Vorpal loooks at the url
18:29:10 <cpressey> it looks like it transforms only one element of a list, if that
18:29:19 <cpressey> the first one that succeeds
18:29:26 <Vorpal> yes, didn't you mean that?
18:29:27 <oerjan> cpressey: yeah that accumulator doesn't work well with laziness
18:29:53 <cpressey> Vorpal: i don't *think* i did... but then, my code seemed to work. this was written to make another function simpler
18:29:57 <Vorpal> oerjan, the problem is, cpressey is too lazy to fix it
18:29:58 <cpressey> haskell needs doctests
18:30:22 <cpressey> anyway, lunxh
18:30:29 <Vorpal> (no offence meant, it was just a bad joke I had to make)
18:30:32 <Vorpal> (to keep up my image)
18:30:49 <cpressey> that is how i spell 'lunch'. i defend my idiolexicality.
18:30:52 <oerjan> cpressey: what's doctests?
18:31:27 <Vorpal> oerjan, I would guess it means verifying that the code and documentation matches each other. That would be nice but very very unrealistic too
18:31:46 <Vorpal> at least for the general case
18:32:06 <oerjan> Vorpal: you know i'm tempted to make the same request of you that elliott did
18:32:25 <Vorpal> oerjan, hm?
18:34:00 <Vorpal> ohh, you mean we should play jeopardy instead?
18:34:06 * Vorpal runs
18:37:48 -!- elliott has joined.
18:37:54 <elliott> aww, no ais
18:37:58 -!- elliott has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:46:28 <cpressey> oerjan: a doctest (from python) is a repl transcript embedded in a comment, basically
18:47:02 -!- elliott has joined.
18:47:10 <elliott> running kexec before shutting the system down is fun
18:47:10 <cpressey> "if i were to try to use this function from the interactive prompt, how would it behave? demonstrate."
18:47:22 <elliott> cpressey: have you got logs since i last quit?
18:47:27 <elliott> and, well, since the quit before that too
18:47:35 <cpressey> oh i suppose i do
18:47:42 <elliott> could i have them? :)
18:47:54 <cpressey> elliott: STOP MAKING POWERSHELL SCROLL and yes
18:48:42 <cpressey> http://pastie.org/private/sjf9pwcjh9mukwdwmpgeg
18:48:48 <oerjan> cpressey: well nothing preventing you from writing such comments, then
18:49:17 <cpressey> oerjan: yes, but the magic is in having them executed and little dots go by and the message ALL TESTS PASSED!
18:49:34 <elliott> this forever
18:49:49 <elliott> i do it occasionally though
18:49:50 <elliott> but in my defence
18:49:53 <elliott> i'm always right
18:50:07 <oerjan> elliott: emphasis on GUESSING
18:50:11 <cpressey> oerjan: anyway, i write in accumulator style by habit, and i know it's bad in haskell
18:50:13 <elliott> :P
18:50:58 <elliott> I'm gonna install ksplice
18:51:02 <elliott> because I'm ker-RAZY
18:51:07 <Vorpal> <cpressey> elliott: STOP MAKING POWERSHELL SCROLL and yes <-- eh?
18:51:15 <Vorpal> you mean it scrolls on activity?
18:51:21 <Vorpal> can't you turn that off?
18:51:28 <Vorpal> to have it just scroll on input or such
18:51:32 <elliott> most elaborate setup for a windows sucks joke ever
18:51:32 <cpressey> Vorpal: when it scrolls i can't select for a copy to clipb oard
18:51:35 <oerjan> cpressey: haskell has several test suites as well as haddock for documentation. not that i've used them.
18:51:48 <Vorpal> cpressey, hah
18:52:03 <elliott> cpressey: python doctests are basically just assertions of == or prints, right?
18:52:05 <cpressey> oerjan: it has maybe been done
18:52:12 <elliott> cpressey: they have a little bit of fanciness to handle randomness/dates I think but still
18:52:31 <cpressey> elliott: assertion that "a repl session looks like this"
18:52:36 <elliott> cpressey: well, right
18:52:41 <elliott> cpressey: but it's basically a series of
18:52:43 <cpressey> which is usually overspecified
18:52:45 <elliott> cpressey: this code evaluates to this result
18:52:46 <elliott> or
18:52:48 <elliott> this code prints this string
18:52:49 <cpressey> but basically yes
18:52:50 <elliott> or both
18:52:59 <elliott> the latter will basically never be tested in haskell ;)
18:53:02 <elliott> so the former is all that matters
18:53:05 <cpressey> prints, relying on repl semantics to print results
18:53:08 <elliott> so, easy enough project to do really
18:53:22 <cpressey> har
18:53:38 <elliott> things ksplice needs to be integrated with: Update Manager
18:54:03 <Vorpal> elliott, there are legal issues with that iirc
18:54:12 <Vorpal> well, for ubuntu to do it
18:54:17 <elliott> for ksplice to do it
18:54:24 <elliott> just offer a modified update manager package or whatever
18:54:26 <elliott> that replaces the usual one
18:54:30 <elliott> and keep it sync'd
18:54:32 <Vorpal> that would work
18:54:51 <elliott> hmm they call upstart a 30-day trial, but only the non-ubuntu/fedora ones say "Try it now"
18:54:52 <Vorpal> elliott, tried 10.10 yet? Any good?
18:55:00 <elliott> the ubuntu and fedora ones say "Get it free!" and have a free download link
18:55:02 <elliott> so i guess there's no trial period
18:55:05 <oerjan> cpressey: my _vague_ understanding is quickcheck and smallcheck are useful in haskell for testing == kind of things, and hunit for actual IO related stuff
18:55:20 <elliott> Vorpal: i have no problem at all with 10.10. you'll probably have 20, as it continues to be more and more Ubuntuesque.
18:55:25 <elliott> well okay
18:55:27 <elliott> i have a few problems
18:55:28 <Vorpal> bbl
18:55:28 <elliott> but not many
18:55:32 <oerjan> this may be severely out of date
18:55:34 <elliott> Vorpal: don't ask me a question before going bbl
18:55:38 <elliott> that's incredibly rude...
18:55:49 -!- washingmachine has left (?).
18:56:56 <elliott> "Ksplice Uptrack for Ubuntu Desktop 10.04 Lucid will be freely supported for as long as Ubuntu Lucid is the newest version of Ubuntu. When the next version of Ubuntu Desktop (10.10 Meerkat) is released, we anticipate freely supporting that next version for as long as it is the newest version of Ubuntu. We anticipate using a similar model for Fedora."
18:56:57 <elliott> okay
18:57:05 <oerjan> the machines are rising
18:57:24 <elliott> Can I configure Ksplice Uptrack to install updates automatically?
18:57:24 <elliott> Yes, you can enable the ill provide a smooth upgrade for sidux systems. In many ways nothing has changed but our name."
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