< 1287187239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan, Swedish letter names make a lot more, leave a lot fewer questions unanswered <-- hey, why didn't you laugh!? < 1287187427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the order of pop the PC from "RTS" command on 6502, for making a fake instruction like "jmp [sound_addr_low,x]" (which I think is not a valid instruction)? < 1287187789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what the question asks; if you just mean the order of bytes in memory, if the stack pointers points to N, then the low byte of PC in RTS is read from N+1 and the high byte from N+2, after which the stack pointer will point to N+2. < 1287187859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the PC that was popped is also incremented once, too. < 1287187991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: OK. < 1287188016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because JSR, which is a three-byte instruction, pushes PC+2, the address of the last byte, to stack; so the increment corrects for that.) < 1287188042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't connect it to Y = why
< 1287188061 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you fail < 1287188072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think you accidentally the sense < 1287188073 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the order of pushing must be HIGH(n-1) and then LOW(n-1) if you want to use RTS to jump there? Is that it? < 1287188095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um, Y do you think that? < 1287188136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That should be it. (But I wouldn't trust me.) < 1287188137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a lot more _what_? < 1287188148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh "sense" < 1287188155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah indeed < 1287188159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Make a lot more questions! < 1287188169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also answer them! < 1287188173 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287188187 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on the amount of ?s on the last few lines, they certainly seemed to make a lot of questions. < 1287188190 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The reason for these kind of question is to make improvment of PPMCK. < 1287188194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very talkative, swedish letters. < 1287188251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, just look at "i", "å" and "ö". They say as much as 13 English letters! < 1287188288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION senses something above his head
< 1287188331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "in", "river" (not exactly, between "river" and "stream"), "island" < 1287188338 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'inriverisland' | wc -c < 1287188339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 < 1287188348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1287188361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :川島に < 1287188365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do the same for Japanese! < 1287188391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n '川島に' | wc -c < 1287188391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1287188394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'åäö' | wc -c < 1287188394 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1287188399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, so that is cheating) < 1287188407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want wc -m. < 1287188423 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no, because that would look better for Japanese ;P < 1287188444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What do you think that does? < 1287188455 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, -m? multibyte obviously < 1287188460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-c is byte count < 1287188460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: From what I've seen -- but I haven't seen much -- people more often seem to be mutating a JMP instruction instead of jumping via the stack. (RTS takes twice as long as a JMP to execute, 6 vs. 3, while PHA is only one cycle faster than STA with an abs address. It does save in amount of code, though.) < 1287188466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It prints the characters. < 1287188480 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, eh? < 1287188484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character count. < 1287188487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes < 1287188494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n '川島に' | wc -m < 1287188494 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1287188500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -n 'åäö' | wc -m < 1287188501 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1287188504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, .... you completely missed the joke < 1287188519 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, iåö < 1287188520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1287188521 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I still haven't figure out yet on 6502 is the divide by three, though. And then I can make it have a conditional compile switch to tell it to compile a code to divide by 2 or by 3. (It needs to divide number as large as 0x07FF at most) < 1287188524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not åäö < 1287188536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You suck. < 1287188554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, because I meant a joke that went over your head? Okay *shrug* < 1287188582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you might use a shifting loop < 1287188583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because you think iåö is the same as åäö. < 1287188587 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously. < 1287188589 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no I don't :P < 1287188592 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it was a typo < 1287188612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i is *quite* far from compose-o-a. < 1287188613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287188616 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: How do I use a shifting loop? < 1287188628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well, yes but not so far if you have a ä key :P < 1287188631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, like I do < 1287188641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Everybody knows there's only one keyboard layout. < 1287188643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONLY ONE. < 1287188646 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -n '川島に' | wc -m < 1287188651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, only the Swedish one < 1287188652 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very true < 1287188662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nay, the AMERICAN one! < 1287188665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE INVENTED IT < 1287188671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVERYTHING ELSE IS A LIE < 1287188698 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made a few new commands in PPMCK: * ? #MACRO #CUSTOM-TUNING Xc Xl Xm < 1287188744 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 < 1287188794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, cc65's runtime division code is http://p.zem.fi/cc65-div -- it's very messy, but it's possible the udiv16by8a bit could be adapted to do a fixed divide-by-three. Don't have time to try to understand that right now, though. < 1287188806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: something equivalent to c = 3*32768; b=0; while (a) {if (a >= c) { a-=c; b++; } a <<= 1; b <<= 1; } < 1287188828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1287188839 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longdivision? < 1287188843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not while (a), it needs to use an accurate count < 1287188885 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is b? < 1287188900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b is to collect the result < 1287188912 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, duh < 1287188926 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes essentially long division < 1287188985 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: does this mean your locale is C or something? < 1287188995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1287189032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the loop should repeat 15 times i think for a 16-bit number (0x07ff would be less i guess, if you adjust c to fit) < 1287189044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Well, the C locale only does ASCII, sooo... I guess so. < 1287189078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $LANG < 1287189080 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287189089 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run locale < 1287189093 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LANG= \ LC_CTYPE="POSIX" \ LC_NUMERIC="POSIX" \ LC_TIME="POSIX" \ LC_COLLATE="POSIX" \ LC_MONETARY="POSIX" \ LC_MESSAGES="POSIX" \ LC_PAPER="POSIX" \ LC_NAME="POSIX" \ LC_ADDRESS="POSIX" \ LC_TELEPHONE="POSIX" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="POSIX" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="POSIX" \ LC_ALL= < 1287189102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's C locale, alright. < 1287189224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh and dividing by 2 is of course just a single shift < 1287189239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess you know that < 1287189312 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1287189422 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, dividing by 2 is just a single shift, but I need also divide by 3 as well < 1287189532 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: OOC, what are you writing? < 1287189547 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I am writing changes to PPMCK < 1287189574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey that was _not_ out of character. pay attention! < 1287189580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, it is divide a sixteen bit number by 2, so it does LSR and ROR < 1287189592 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PPMCK is a MML script-based NES/Famicom music composition utility." ? < 1287189609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yes. That is what PPMCK is. < 1287189620 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh gosh. OK. < 1287189628 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a program to write music compiled into NSF < 1287189728 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: HackEgo's the one out of character here. C locale, indeed! < 1287189843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not out of character, it still has 256 of them < 1287189847 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPMCK is not the only program for making music compiled into NSF, but it is one of the best one, in my opinion. < 1287190613 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the cc65-div code, how do I need use that for divide sixteen bit number by constant. < 1287190618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287190809 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1287192153 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I take it nobody has seen such a roguelike :) < 1287192163 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be fun? < 1287192215 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon < 1287192277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C locale? < 1287192289 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C locale: The roguelike! < 1287192297 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what is "such a roguelike" < 1287192322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are such, like a rogue < 1287192374 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you were actually here when I described it :) < 1287192411 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a multiplayer roguelike that remembers map changes < 1287192449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here != paying attention < 1287192466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever seen a multiplayer roguelike before < 1287192476 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you were dizzy at the time :) < 1287192533 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen one, mangband < 1287193240 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287194040 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287195054 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287195111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ping < 1287195168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can probably blend the colours by *3 the colours and opacity:.33333 < 1287195212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone want to know thw owrst thing? < 1287195449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the worst < 1287195456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, oerjan, Gregor < 1287195458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WORST THING < 1287195463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst thing of what? < 1287195482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iie îe いいえ イイエ 五五愛 < 1287195490 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LALALA I CANNOT HEAR YOU < 1287195504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in the world < 1287195507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay pikhq < 1287195512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want to know the worst thing < 1287195516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must it has ... destroyed me < 1287195526 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opposition to modern medicine? < 1287195542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you know what is the worst thing in the world? < 1287195543 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks pikhq said "no"
< 1287195554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think you are correct < 1287195554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very impolite way < 1287195560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 5 times, each in a different writing system for Japanese! < 1287195563 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, what's the worst thing in the world? < 1287195578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*second worst. You don't seem to be dead. < 1287195580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mannyokàna (man'yogana) is the craziest thing ever. < 1287195601 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I believe you. < 1287195609 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, are you ever going to explain? < 1287195610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: this is worse then death. < 1287195614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than < 1287195643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incredible pain that will never go away for the rest of your life? < 1287195659 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... life? < 1287195677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. < 1287195679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Worse. < 1287195684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You're on Ubuntu right? < 1287195694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7 right now < 1287195704 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... dead people that are very large and take up too much space? < 1287195704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: then you cannot know the pain < 1287195713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. i don't think that's a huge problem... < 1287195731 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fixya.com/support/t1222056-simpletech_320gb_external_hard_drive <-- DECIDE < 1287195732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dead person the size of the moon might be a huge problem. < 1287195734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it... people? < 1287195746 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dead person size of the sun would be worse. < 1287195747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: OR PRECIOUS REAL ESTATE < 1287195748 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes that is what I meant. < 1287195789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION carves up oerjan to use as a house
< 1287195801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, describe it? < 1287195805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: cannot. < 1287195808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be experienced. < 1287195810 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i'm not the size of the moon. or even a house. yet, anyhow. < 1287195828 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really idiotic that they don't label it on the back of the case < 1287195839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, surely there are things I'd need to do < 1287195847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you're on ubuntu right < 1287195876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh btw there is an easy way to upgrade from ippepid bibex to current ubuntu totally safely but < 1287195878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll tell you tomorrow < 1287195880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too tired right now < 1287195896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't a dead person the size of the sun collapse into a black hole? < 1287195904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ippepid bibex"?? < 1287195920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess there is still fusible material. < 1287195925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biblical LaTeX1 < 1287195954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pray to your TeXan God1 < 1287195966 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Biblical LaTeX1? < 1287195969 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear keyboard: Please allow me to type ! < 1287195982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "ippepid bibex"?? < 1287195985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intrepid bibexian. < 1287196026 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ONLY Christian typesetting environment < 1287196054 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Users of anything else go straight to hell < 1287196068 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the power supply to my ADSL modem will power the external HDD. Of course, that means I'll offlinify while backing up. < 1287196093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure hope i'll be able to stop watching the guild so i can go to bed < 1287196169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Guild++ < 1287196179 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just one more thing I can spoil you on >:D < 1287196241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, uh < 1287196244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a huge plotline really < 1287196247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just amusing < 1287196401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LaTeX (Biblical or not) is bloated and difficult to understand, but even Plain TeX has more things than needed. < 1287196453 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insipid cortex < 1287196535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TeX is still the best typesetting system, though. < 1287196560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it isn't. LaTeX is. < 1287196671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should clarify that "Biblical LaTeX" was a joke.. < 1287196735 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curses, no USB cable! < 1287196749 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoReTeX < 1287196750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what about Hermeneutic LaTeX? < 1287196764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or NyLoN? < 1287196783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still need to improve TeX, and I think it can be done with only adding a few commands: \progdef \maketoken \ifexecute \expandto \convlist \convbox \convtoks \dvibinary \pagex \pagey Hopefully this should be enough. < 1287196799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are those things? < 1287196804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gor or Gore? < 1287196811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they are the best typesetting systems ever < 1287196819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How so? < 1287196842 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is difficult to say < 1287196868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There is actually justification for a sort of "Biblical" macro set for LaTeX. < 1287196876 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK... need... get... uzzb cable... < 1287196899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And what is justification? What macros are needed? < 1287196922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LATEX IS UNJUSTIFIABLE IT IS BAD < 1287196964 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby wipe my hands clean of any blood shed due to Biblical LaTeX < 1287196964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Bibles and other such critical works have particular, unique typesetting demands. Most *obviously* the need to handle chapter/verse notations in a certain way, cross-references, and footnotes. < 1287196974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I need to ask you a question. < 1287196985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? < 1287196986 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK < 1287196991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though this isn't *unique* to the Christian Bible, it's the most common such work. < 1287197004 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1287197012 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't know. < 1287197020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But what are your thoughts on the matter? < 1287197040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have *you* ever really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? < 1287197047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION imagines zzo38 understanding the question perfectly
< 1287197076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well zzo38 does have a certain clarity of notions about him < 1287197080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only to be expected < 1287197105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you mean what I look more like or do you mean the book? < 1287197122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I mean whether you have really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. < 1287197156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I sometimes change my decision. < 1287197168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That... I agree. < 1287197183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1287197191 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, now we agree. < 1287197231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Personally, I have occasionally reall been far even as decided to use even go want to do that, but I'm never sure whether to go throughg with it and look more like as my desires tell me to, you know? < 1287197272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fucken has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like how do they work? < 1287197285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ah, Christopher Fucken, inventor of Mornington Crescent? < 1287197294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I know. I sometimes change my opinion in future, so I don't want to change something permanently until I am more sure, I think. < 1287197304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After whom the Fucken A manoeuvre is named. < 1287197313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Agreed. < 1287197358 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Can you play Mornington Crescent? If you make an illegal move do you have to discard 2 cards? < 1287197390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 3, actually; 3 1/2 in the Amended Uncrossreferenced Edition 1667 of the King's Guard. < 1287197395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one's a bit screwy though. < 1287197399 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the rule in Mornington Crescent that causes the rules to change if you are playing the game on Sunday. < 1287197414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's only when playing with Whorffhotridge extensions, and nobody does that. < 1287197418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe that is not the standard edition, I don't know. < 1287197421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Martkin Plink does, but he can do whatever he wants. < 1287197430 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know a lot of the rules. < 1287197445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a rule allowing different players to use different rules? < 1287197455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: only when you're not a turnip < 1287197490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I quote 5.6.7/987§33.2 in the Dewy Duodecimal numbering: < 1287197500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(King Jam's Edition) < 1287197562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Iff that Sgeo is't rightly a turnippe, play shall proceed whereby all players share one sette of rules. Contrariwise, players shall maintain their owne rulesett as desirede." < 1287197592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in the 1998 Modern Amended & Revised Almanac Publication: < 1287197594 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you just make up that rule now? < 1287197618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If Sgeo is a turnip, all players shall play by the same set of rules. However, if he is not, all players can maintain their own ruleset as they see fit." < 1287197633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Nope; you can check your physical copy if you want. It's in volume 55.29 of King Jam's. < 1287197645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you know that the Modern Amended publication is in a single volume. < 1287197685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo has of course chosen his nick after the famous MC player. < 1287197693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you helped with some of the revisions, iirc? < 1287197700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you didn't know? he *is* that Sgeo! < 1287197704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very different in-game persona, i agree < 1287197706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o sh... < 1287197716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah we are in esteemed company < 1287197732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well. an amendment here or there in the 2007 edition. < 1287197745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just clarifying footnotes < 1287197748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think one slight reword < 1287197759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youngest person to have a contribution accepted to a respected publication of the MC ruleset, i believe < 1287197781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome < 1287197880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how did you use the Tradranikas Gambit in your last game against Yurtsin Robonov? < 1287197884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever used it that late in the game? < 1287197895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically had to reset half the game to initial condition... < 1287197897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe you just made up most of these rules, but then, I think many people make up their own rules for Mornington Crescent because they don't know how to play, so that is why they make up rules. Of course there are standards, but every time I have seen someone play they always add their own rules. < 1287197901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess it's the other half that matters, right? < 1287197917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: as i said, check your physical copy if you want a verification < 1287197947 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually have a physical copy. I don't live in England. < 1287198009 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have... uzzb... cable. Fhew. < 1287198030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you could mail one from Taupe House < 1287198032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mail order < 1287198041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their website is down right now though and i don't have the address to hand < 1287198071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think I was very fortunate to recall the Milardton's Maneuver. I almost did the Irevocrev gamble, whichh would have screwed me over < 1287198072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be the two-volume restructuring of the Modern Amended publication (colloquially the "Taupe Amended" edition); one of my favourites < 1287198078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Modern Amended format is a little too cramped I think < 1287198083 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need also to get a map of Mornington Crescent, I suppose. And if they changed things in that area over time, you would need to decide and agree on whether to use the old map or new map. < 1287198085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that book, wow, not good for your lap! < 1287198098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: whichhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh < 1287198123 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PDF] < 1287198125 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bibleref.sty: a LaTeXe package for typesetting bible references < 1287198141 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. it exists < 1287198225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: didn't you do some work on mathematical models of subsets of Mornington Crescent? < 1287198233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any progress to a grand unified theory? haha, i wish :) < 1287198246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they always seem to get so far and then there's that little mechanic that brings the whole thing crashing down < 1287198247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shame < 1287198249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true shame < 1287198290 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when he shows up he always asks me for a cigarette even though he KNOWS i don't smoke < 1287198330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i... yes totally < 1287198439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i've never even played the game. < 1287198462 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once got within a block of Mornington Crescent only to discover it was actually another player's Mornington Crescent Decoy (although he had no knowledge of this.) < 1287198463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I doubt that, everyone plays by different rules anyways so how do you know for sure? However, I have an idea: Real maps sometimes have trap streets. So, perhaps you can make a specific set of trap streets for the game, which are designed to make the game mathematically correct. < 1287198466 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just read a bit about it. < 1287198490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: as we all know that doesn't stop mathematicians from modelling things :) < 1287198525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I've been turniped once < 1287198528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but... really? weren't you listed as one of the (admittedly very numerous!) coauthors on Tableau et al.'s famous 1997 paper? < 1287198658 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then he used his "Grateful Dead" token (+2) to escape the sewers of Paris, and made a beeline for Erste Lage Spätlese. I didn't have enough bonus crumbs at the time to prevent such a move... < 1287198771 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Were you playing the variant using the map of the entire world (and not only England)? (I don't remember what that variant was called, but I have read of its existence) < 1287198774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: No, that's just when the Nazis invaded your house. < 1287198778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just your house. Inexplicably. < 1287198780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep up grandpa. < 1287198787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is possible that i'd _heard_ of the game by 1997. so, no. < 1287198805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh it was Orjan Johansen < 1287198805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not english either, after all. < 1287198809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: easy mistake to make < 1287198844 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Were you playing, in that round? You might have been, there were a lot of people involved. < 1287198885 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, he wasn't a particularly good player. Perhaps he got lost. < 1287198893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i have played a horribly low number of games for the amount of rubbish i know < 1287198905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i think i might have been in the really big one in... < 1287198910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when was it < 1287198911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008? < 1287198914 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: O, OK. < 1287198914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287198930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh that was the one with the subplot theme of "a great escape" right? < 1287198936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain Then he used his "Grateful Dead" token (+2) to escape the sewers of Paris, and made a beeline for Erste Lage Spätlese. I didn't have enough bonus crumbs at the time to prevent such a move... < 1287198948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when the subplots get too involved though. it's a gimmick. < 1287198963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1287199110 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, now that oerjan's gone, I can reveal to you the truth. This wasn't a game of Mornington Crescent, at all. This was a horrible experiment gone wrong, on a mailing list on the early internet... < 1287199136 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea was that we could create a game exactly like Mornington Crescent using only our minds. < 1287199138 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know right? < 1287199148 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shakes his head
< 1287199152 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We were so foolish... < 1287199212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yes, I heard of that variant, I think it was "Blind Mornington Crescent" and you have to just imagine the map, you do not have a physical map..... it is difficult if you cannot agree on the rules < 1287199254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean some other variant? < 1287199260 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287199360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I will have to tell you some other time. Right now I must use the power supply of my ADSL modem to power my external HDD to back up this partition to have some confidence I won't lose the data when I recover Windows (Vista!) on the *other* partition so I can see if I can burn CD's from Windows maybe (I won't) but it will put me in a position to install a better OS where Ibex used to be. < 1287199380 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you on the flipside, knock on wood. < 1287199384 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6 < 1287199386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1287199436 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287199545 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287199545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287199546 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287199546 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.105.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287199660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another change I made in PPMCK is to make the header strings say "" if it is not set, in accordance with the standard. (The old version put the field names there instead.) < 1287199662 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287199706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suggest you try the Stork Press' -- hey, bet cpressey's bot is named after them -- annual newbie games. There's information in the Taupe Amended edition of the rules (in the first appendix). Very good; I started off there. < 1287199723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people there are great, they'll help you get started with tactics etc. in no time. Truly the discerning newbie's choice. < 1287199731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well worth getting in to. < 1287199734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going now; goodnight. Bye. < 1287199735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287199784 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try..... < 1287199807 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-148-69-29.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287199813 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that didn't work. < 1287199861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What OS are you trying to install, now? < 1287199867 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The plug fits, and powers it on, but the unit does nothing. Possibly toast. < 1287199887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ToastOS! < 1287199889 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I want to start with recovering the Windows partition on this laptop. < 1287199907 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no guarantees this won't wipe out the Ubuntu partition... < 1287199915 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'm looking to back up first. < 1287199931 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you want to have dual boot? < 1287200032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you know who Damian Yerrick is < 1287200071 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I have a dual boot, just, one of the OSes involved won't boot :) < 1287200091 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not heard that name, so far as I can recall < 1287200113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops! That is a mistake. Another choice is to replace the hard drive with a new one, and use the old one as the backup < 1287200173 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many Linux distributions, Ubuntu is not the only one, so, you can pick whichever one you want, or even write your own < 1287200273 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main obstacle, at present, is that the DVD-R drive will not R. If that worked, I would just burn my data to some blank DVDs and go ahead and experiment. < 1287200333 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it wasn't a laptop, I would consider swapping the hard drive. But, it's a laptop. < 1287200349 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just get a new damned computer. < 1287200387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Laptop hard drives can be swapped too, y'know. < 1287200489 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but then I'd have to get another laptop harddrive to swap it with. And I don't like laptops, and this laptop has problems, as well. < 1287200505 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should just try to build another desktop system, probably. < 1287200585 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, try to build another desktop system. < 1287200745 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a question about PXELINUX, in case you know about it. I have written a module for it and it will resolve hostnames but the MAC address doesn't work, do you know what is wrong? (This is for a program I am writing at Free Geek) < 1287200969 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1287201006 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to have about 9 gigabytes available on my web host. I could upload all the files I care about... < 1287201145 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: PXE is cool. But I have no idea. < 1287201171 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear to be missing about half of one of my molars. Fantastic. How'd that happen? < 1287201680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www3.state.id.us/oasis/2005/HCR029.html Okay, some days I absolutely love ridiculous acts of legislature. < 1287201794 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my tax... dollars... at... < 1287201802 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION :::
< 1287201832 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287201890 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287202138 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: when using Unix, do you pass the -h flag to du and df, or do you find it easier to read if you don't? < 1287202181 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I have never used those commands. < 1287202217 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really. < 1287202230 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about ls? < 1287202264 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For ls it's a little less useful for me to use -h. < 1287202270 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless the files are gigantic. < 1287202272 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used ls. I have never used the -h flag of ls. < 1287202619 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I use -h habitually. < 1287202624 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :DrNinja < 1287202674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You've never used du or dh? < 1287202676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, df < 1287202701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have not used those commands. < 1287202726 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *just* now used dh, accidentally. < 1287202741 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, dh is part of debhelper. < 1287202822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alas. < 1287202831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You must dislike knowing anything about disk usage. < 1287202845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a test, this is only a test. < 1287202875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhh.... urgent question < 1287202882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I stop streaming in VLC? < 1287202904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-c < 1287202929 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as much as I like this nick, it is silly. < 1287202931 0 :DrNinja!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1287202968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was insufficiently Irish. < 1287203058 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "catseye" is sufficiently so? < 1287203064 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begorrah! < 1287203086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, you want nekonome. That's "Irish", right? < 1287203090 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, I just never needed to know about disk usage when using Unix. < 1287203125 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The "neko" part suggests it is highly "Irish". I don't know about the rest. < 1287203134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: :P < 1287203178 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /nick PeterPackrat < 1287203549 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287203601 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should totally be running LoseThos. < 1287203620 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... I would score bravery points, but I think that's all. < 1287203627 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! I would get to hear GOD MUSIC < 1287203642 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well, one thing at a time. < 1287203744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely the music could be converted to a format playable on a sane OS? < 1287203801 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it could. Surely the music could be generated on a sane OS to start with. < 1287203848 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, what's the word -- circumstantially, it's not. < 1287203862 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, circumstantialness. < 1287203865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Youtube player: you have a buffer of 1/3rd of the video. YOU DON'T NEED TO STOP THE VIDEO AND BUFFER SOME MORE. < 1287203899 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear yes. Youtube got all wacky "you are sophisticated stupid" once Google got its mitts on it. < 1287203984 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrgh 3.5 hours to upload 0.5 G of stuff to my webspace. < 1287204075 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LoseThos.com was hosted on Yahoo? < 1287204082 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that even make sense? < 1287204100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.losethos.com/blog.html < 1287204179 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yahoo offers web hosting of some sort < 1287204186 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But forget that. < 1287204188 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Cognitive-Connection-Thought-Language-Machine/dp/0131396196 < 1287204193 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to read this book. < 1287204197 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is an awesome book. < 1287204203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains like 50,000 errors. < 1287204212 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is otherwise an awesome book. < 1287204232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, Losethos. < 1287204251 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I like the idea of a simple OS to toy around on < 1287204256 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of putting together an "esoteric reading list" sometime, and this would be on it. < 1287204258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The OS that concludes that the 80s were awesome. < 1287204282 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the mono-lingual support. < 1287204290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were awesome for getting kids to learn how to program < 1287204299 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1287204300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thank god it's not propogating STILL MORE incompatible encodings) < 1287204317 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/user/losethos < 1287204372 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :love how the window titles CONSTANTLY SCROLL < 1287204432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "lyrics". The hell? < 1287204440 0 :Epona!~Epona@cpe-076-182-022-069.nc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287204452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back to Joco. < 1287204464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's only one way to find out if those are random or not, pikhq. < 1287204467 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better take the plunge. < 1287204481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm < 1287204483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck no. The crazy might be contagious. < 1287204483 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomly ordered < 1287204508 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Software-Tales-Community/dp/0195121236/ <-- this would be awesome book #2 on my reading list. < 1287204522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, I finally have a compuuter capable of running LoseThos < 1287204560 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what else would go on it, though. So much is not really weird enough. < 1287204582 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Escher, Goedel, Bach" goes on my "read it, ok, but then please burn it" list. < 1287204606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LoseThos will never have networking, other < 1287204607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphics modes, or USB support, unless USB is required for keyboards and mice. < 1287204607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is there? I'll have to find something. I might do applications, I < 1287204607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess. < 1287204607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1287204608 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goedel, Escher, Bach, is probably the real order. < 1287204615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eep, sorry < 1287204629 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he might do applications. < 1287204631 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can't run it, then, unless I do some weird dual-boot thingy < 1287204633 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But why? < 1287204660 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1287204662 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"LoseThos is not for pathetic hardware -- it's 64-bit and multicored. That's a < 1287204663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common misconception." < 1287204687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-multicolored hardware EXISTS? < 1287204712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you know what i mean when I asked that) < 1287204807 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Multi-CORED < 1287204811 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is different! < 1287204815 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1287204823 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1287204823 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1287204828 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roger Penrose. < 1287204842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually thought it was a typo < 1287204845 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to ask elliott what he thinks of Roger Penrose, wen I see him next. < 1287204847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION facepalms at self
< 1287204864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@note elliott catseye wants to know what you think of Roger Penrose < 1287204871 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit < 1287204876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!note elliott catseye wants to know what you think of Roger Penrose < 1287204885 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/me thinks Roger Penrose is a GEN-YOO-INE CRAZY PERSON btw) < 1287204896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's @tell and the bot's not here < 1287204900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1287204908 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to rewrite it in Go < 1287204918 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For my own incomprehensible reasons < 1287204926 0 :Epona!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287204950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewrite it in Factor! < 1287204964 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooooooh. < 1287204979 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I wish I could. < 1287204990 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can... < 1287205002 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write it in something really wrong. < 1287205032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether to say "There's nothing wrong with Factor" or not < 1287205043 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep gravitating towards R, because it is popular (amongst statisticians,) but wrong oh so wrong for just about everything else. < 1287205068 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know if you could do a bot, in it. Probably... < 1287205077 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with nc's support) < 1287205084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq! < 1287205093 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1287205119 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite drôle. < 1287205170 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still worried about where the missing half of my molar went, though. I mean, damn! That's a tooth! There shouldn't be a HOLE there. < 1287205181 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, dentist appt on the 20th... < 1287205302 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is this book of papers, in celebration of some anniversary of the publication of Turing's paper about Turing machines, I think. It has some interesting papers in it. It would be #3 on my reading list. But I can't find it. < 1287205322 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the papers is by Penrose, and it's an early version of his "Shadows of the Mind" bullshit. < 1287205336 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And his arguments are obviously fallacious. < 1287205364 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can't duplicate someone's consciousness, because gee, I can't imagine that!" sort of stuff. < 1287205396 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other papers are OK. Not all great, but interesting. < 1287205551 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/Universal-Turing-Machine-Half-Century-Computerkultur/dp/3211826378 < 1287205554 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the one < 1287205567 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1937 -> 1987 < 1287205614 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i had some nachos about now < 1287205688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287205780 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the difference between "Alt" and "Alt Gr"? < 1287205851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Alt Gr chooses an alternate symbol set. It's like a different dimension of shift. < 1287205881 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: except I've never seen it ever never do any such thing. < 1287205896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just does alt. < 1287205907 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta-Lctrl-J < 1287205907 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You're an American, aren't you? < 1287205910 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???!? < 1287205910 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287205916 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: How did you even FIND a keyboard with Alt Gr? < 1287205924 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CANADIAN, thankyouverymuch. < 1287205930 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's on this laptop! < 1287205937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada: Still America's hat. < 1287205948 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Along with dedicated $ and Euro keys, it seems. < 1287205965 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which do not do anything under Ubuntu, it seems. < 1287205978 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an Acer Aspire 3680-2354 < 1287205979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Well, if it doesn't activate an alternate character set, then that's because you have it configured to use a non-international keyboard layout :P < 1287206007 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably so < 1287206200 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should fuckin have a scrollbar!!! that's obvious. yay you have no idea what i'm talking about < 1287206260 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean when you have a window full of icons that is half off the screen < 1287206284 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is chilly, gets sweater
< 1287206461 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pypy < 1287206533 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's great how there's so much code out there that is just completely useless and forgettable. < 1287206565 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The day will come, the cherry blossoms will fall, and no one will care about your code. < 1287206584 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, code rot. < 1287206606 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despire". < 1287206609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287206614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/despire/despair/ < 1287206737 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 it all though. < 1287206826 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287206953 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's so much CODE out there! Did Turing ever have an inlkling (1938!) that it would be like this? Somewhere, right now, a C program is falling through a switch case that the author never intended it to. < 1287207003 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bug. But the consequences aren't costing the owner of the code *very much* money. So it's not being fixed. < 1287207024 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the backlog (maybe -- if it's been noticed.) It might get into the sprint someday. < 1287207080 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inkling < 1287207413 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK -- this would be #4 (is it?) on my "esoteric reading list": < 1287207415 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rdwarf.com/users/kioh/ < 1287207546 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance http://www.rdwarf.com/users/kioh/haxorec54KB.jpg < 1287207739 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i should say, < 1287207744 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think, < 1287207752 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :history, cruel as it is, < 1287207761 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will remember us, among these cherry blossoms, < 1287207768 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the composers of this time. < 1287207796 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe #5 should be Hesse's "Glass Bead Game" < 1287207824 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the merge of mathematics and music as art as we know it is becomes obsolete. < 1287207834 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*merging < 1287207863 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEN AGAIN, I AM QUITE DURNK, SO OK? < 1287207869 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ORLY? < 1287207874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://poll.fm/2c4e9 (So anonymous :P ) < 1287208103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Wait, I think I meant 7. Dammit. < 1287208133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a higher sample group. < 1287208153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCKINGLY, random computer scientist in Indi-aaaa-na doesn't have many fans :P < 1287208220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should position yourself as an up-and-coming composer instead. < 1287208317 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, Opus 12 < 1287208318 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grandmother has become obsessive and weird about op. 13 mov. 1. She wants me to sell it. Or something. Idonno. Apparently all I have to do is write something in a major key to placate her. < 1287208324 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: NOT VALID < 1287208341 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=P < 1287208382 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's my write-in vote < 1287208405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you can't see the write-ins, can you? < 1287208409 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287208432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only put "other" there so people write in ZEE[1-5] or GM1 or some weird stuff I've forgotten about. < 1287208435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Dammit. < 1287208444 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have asked for a rerecording of Op. 1. < 1287208445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287208473 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I actually probably could find op. 1 ... < 1287208479 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I should have said Zee5. Or whatever oneo f those it is that I like. < 1287208485 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should ask my mom if she has a VHS of it lying around somewhere. < 1287208495 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who the hell wrote "woodwind quintet ftw" X_D < 1287208496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X-D < 1287208503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You said that it was lost forever, though. < 1287208507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Clearly, you lie. < 1287208512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I do lie. < 1287208518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm certain Miss Zarves would love to hear Opus 12 < 1287208519 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It also probably is lost forever. < 1287208519 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HAHAH I haven't even HEARD your window stuff. < 1287208523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And should make a recording of Op. 1 through 4, just so we can mock your suck. < 1287208523 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, woodwind stuff. < 1287208530 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yet I voted fo it. < 1287208564 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287208565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hmm. Kill Yourself? < 1287208570 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POLLS IN THE INTERNET = ATTRACT IGNORAT OPIONS < 1287208571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Naah, that just needs someone to cover it. < 1287208576 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1287208587 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, needs someone with a voice that is not my voice. < 1287208595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Srsly < 1287208603 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We. Want. Opus. Twelve. < 1287208608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We. Want. Opus. Twelve. < 1287208612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If by "we" ... you mean "you" < 1287208616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err < 1287208621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you mean "I" < 1287208624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah < 1287208629 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude, Gregor's low-opus-numbers can't be 10x worse than my low-opus-numbers. < 1287208636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same for DCVOGLLMRCMCDP. :P (nice acronym, BTW) < 1287208648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I guarantee his are significantly better than mine. < 1287208651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I don't have any. < 1287208654 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All highly repetitive and awful SID tunes on the commodore 64. < 1287208662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The power of being a performer but not a composer. :P < 1287208686 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With cheesy titles, which Gregor staunchy avoids with... antiseptic opus numbers. < 1287208699 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Op. 13 has titles in it! < 1287208708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I avoid titles not because I don't like good titles, but because I'm title-incompetent. < 1287208709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nocturne in Three and Finale in Three. < 1287208728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well demonstrated. < 1287208729 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those come close to being titles, I suppose. < 1287208729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1287208747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've definitely got them on title tag. < 1287208749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend Eric keeps asking me for UNIX commands to turn into titles. < 1287208765 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's not like "Death and the Maiden" and so. < 1287208786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you can make a piece for which fdisk would be an appropriate title, you might win at music. < 1287208795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1287208796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsck < 1287208796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That. < 1287208820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aaronshep.com/rt/RTE32.html < 1287208827 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... so... not right. < 1287208829 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287208830 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How isn't this a major, major copyright violation/ < 1287208842 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1287208845 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a definite split here. < 1287208869 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either "fdisk" is the worst ever title for a piece of music, because you are being pretentiously geeky, or < 1287208887 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"fdisk" is a beautiful title, because you have captured it exactly. < 1287208888 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck. < 1287208896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD LUCK. < 1287208955 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ? < 1287208955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Obviously, I want him to capture it exactly. < 1287208963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD LUCK. < 1287208997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Story copyright © 1985 Louis Sachar. Script copyright © 1993, 2003, 2005 Aaron Shepard. Produced by permission of Avon Books, a division of the Hearst Corporation. Scripts in this series are free and may be copied, shared, and performed for any noncommercial purpose, except they may not be posted online without permission." < 1287209002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's on Aaron Shepard's website. < 1287209022 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not a copyright violation because the copyright holders approve. < 1287209032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tautological but true. < 1287209051 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tautology ... AND YET IT'S TRUE! < 1287209053 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schubert is OK but Beethoven is way better. < 1287209081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've read the first book < 1287209098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read Wayside School Gets a Little Stranger, and a bit of the math one < 1287209105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1287209121 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eine kleine pimpmusik < 1287209122 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I skipped over the chapter that was talking about feminine underwear. I was a kid, and it made me uncomfortable) < 1287209147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The book touch you in naughty places? < 1287209155 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote eine kleine pimpmusik < 1287209182 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4uOxOgm5jQ4 < 1287209222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there had to have been more stories than were on this page < 1287209231 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: wakka wakka wakka chow-wow < 1287209236 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| eine kleine pimpmusik < 1287209237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's why this script is online < 1287209294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...there were THREE books? < 1287209303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not counting the math one) < 1287209344 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The prof teaching the sight-singing course always wore long-sleeved sweaters... we conjecture that this was to conceal the needle tracks < 1287209351 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*conjectured < 1287209455 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hole where outside part of molar supposed to be! < 1287209535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R.I.P. catseye's tooth < 1287209552 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, part of tooth < 1287209588 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was abducted by aliens! < 1287209991 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this state, my music goes by waay too quick < 1287210046 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Commodore 64? < 1287210051 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Commodore 64? < 1287210068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a C64. < 1287210071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers fondly.
< 1287210107 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, like most other people who had a C64, I had a C128. < 1287210158 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kv6Ewqx3PMs < 1287210185 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Song is not great, but I remember the video. Cute puppet. < 1287210238 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure what to make of the C64 now. I had a genuine C64, to start. Then a C64C as well (the power supply on those was more reliable.) < 1287210338 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My earliest music, though -- written as SIDPIC songs. < 1287210371 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circle-triangle-underscore, EPIC, wide X < 1287210488 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-EcasIakX4 -- MSeq sounds like something you'd do to a Monad < 1287210547 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL IT DOES < 1287210658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typelevel strictness? < 1287210929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287210960 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY ANSWER TO THIS is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4n_zZ4TZ48 < 1287210963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone reverse engineered Nethack's PRNG... And then logged onto a public server, killed himself on the first level by kicking a wand of wishing, three times a day. < 1287210985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Uhhhhh < 1287210993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://alt.org/nethack/player-all.php?player=WowDeath Yes. < 1287211006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: He could have done a bunch of ascensions, but that's funnier. < 1287211127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, whaddya know. ais523 developed the bot that does that. < 1287211134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1287211201 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287211211 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are all pretty smart here, and we consistently apply it to pretty useless things. < 1287211218 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi zzo38! < 1287211220 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1287211239 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You are probably right..... that is one of the things done in esolangs. < 1287211355 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the subroutine code working, using the PHA and RTS and stuff. Whoever told me was correct. < 1287211487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: About the divide-by-3? cool. < 1287211521 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: No, not the divide-by-3. But my other question about how the PC is returned from the stack, worked. < 1287211529 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah. < 1287211569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The emulator I use allows memory view function to work even for .NSF files, which is helpful that I can see that it is working. < 1287211625 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sitting here, inebriated, writing nothing myself, listening to Mendelsohnn's violin concerto in E minor in amazement. < 1287211707 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1287211718 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do not pass go, do not collect 200 zorkmids < 1287211726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like you are writing this message, isn't it? < 1287211742 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrt the wowdeath thing < 1287211757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am still not quite sure how to make the divide by three. < 1287211768 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I collected 290 zorkmids! how unfortunate. < 1287211801 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION pays it back, with interest
< 1287211854 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm off, cya < 1287211911 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interest. < 1287211915 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287211995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By looking at the PPMCK codes, I see a lot of codes JSR followed by RTS, but I though JMP should be usually just as good, isn't it? < 1287212077 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yep. "Tail call"s! < 1287212203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I forgot who aksed, but... I got a copy of "ML for the Working Programmer" -- good introduction to functional programming, because it doesn't dwell on the trivial parts for too long, and it gets into some interesting implementations, like a lambda calculus interpreter, < 1287212218 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night, < 1287212225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is another way that works: http://sprunge.us/NYhO < 1287213217 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287213911 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can make it divide by three, then I can make it the codes with semicolons to work correctly. http://sprunge.us/KFZW < 1287214096 0 :cal153!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287215109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287215999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1287216000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1287216285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287218167 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287218181 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287218515 0 :asiekierka!asiekierka@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1287218516 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1287219127 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[afk] < 1287219852 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.8/20100722155716] < 1287219907 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287219918 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287220932 0 :sshc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287220989 0 :sshc!~sshc@unaffiliated/sshc JOIN :#esoteric < 1287222299 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1287223479 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287223494 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287223917 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-3-113.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287224025 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By 1992 that same company'reshaped into Outukumpu Metals Group (OMG; Cleveland)'posted sales of $200 million." < 1287224029 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, a company called OMG < 1287224186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[afk]: have i mentioned my new company LULZ? < 1287224204 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a daughter company of my previous company WTFBBQ < 1287224441 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the OMG one is real < 1287224454 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard of a company called WTFBBQ < 1287225170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outokumpu sounds morelikely than Outukumpu. < 1287226102 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1287228230 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1287228985 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1287229145 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1287229156 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know any Brainf**k code that can be used as a benchmark for interpreters < 1287229606 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287231434 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1287232255 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1287232549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Later < 1287234952 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1287235136 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-13-159.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287235187 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-13-159.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287235227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you know any Brainf**k code that can be used as a benchmark for interpreters <-- that mandelbrot one? < 1287235238 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[afk], it depends on exactly what you want to measure. < 1287235309 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lostking can be useful to measure how well it handles large code, but it isn't especially computation intensive, the mandlebrot one is not very large (well, for being brainfuck that is), but is quite computation intensive < 1287235375 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287236879 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1287237303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287237404 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287238190 0 :aloril!~aloril@84.249.126.153 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287239394 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.105.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287239406 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287239468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:36:13 There are many Linux distributions, Ubuntu is not the only one, so, you can pick whichever one you want, or even write your own < 1287239476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so did you write your own? < 1287239496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you stuck into the false monochotomy of Ubuntu?!?! < 1287239818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:54:05 Need to ask elliott what he thinks of Roger Penrose, wen I see him next. < 1287239821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more detailed question plz < 1287239867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:11:56 catseye: How did you even FIND a keyboard with Alt Gr? < 1287239871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK keyboards have alt gr < 1287239894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:23:26 "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despire". < 1287239897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despire, new favourite word < 1287239899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but catseye is not in the UK. < 1287239906 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And US keyboards do not. < 1287239907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: doesn't mean he hasn't ever been < 1287240051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:58:28 catseye: I avoid titles not because I don't like good titles, but because I'm title-incompetent. < 1287240056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archaeology on a Summer's Rapey Afternoon < 1287240071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of title-incompetent ... < 1287240083 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's Opus 14's title. < 1287240085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must < 1287240092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall not. < 1287240098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine < 1287240111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Theme from "Tarski and Hutch" < 1287240180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: C'mon, that is an amazing title. < 1287240341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:38:47 Oh, whaddya know. ais523 developed the bot that does that. < 1287240342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:38:54 Awesome. < 1287240342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1287240346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it TAEB or one he custom-made? < 1287240351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais didn't do TAEB, just TAEB::Planar < 1287240359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or TAEB::AI::Planar, whatever it is < 1287240493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[earth_is_flat -6 points 2 hours ago[-] < 1287240493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but science is so perfect, so pure, with its theory of evolution that doesn't apply to people, its theories on humors that morphed into germ theory that became stem cell theory and gene theory, and its communist beliefs in public health....lol]] < 1287241173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm, what are the chances of the ipsec daemon, the ipv6 router daemon and an ipv6 multicast daemon not interfering with each other? I should be able to get ipv6 multicast it seems. < 1287241189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems the sixxs POP I'm connected to recently added support for that < 1287241240 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i totally wrote my own. last night. running it now. yep. < 1287241268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: is the windows partition really important? i'd have just upgraded the ubuntu install < 1287241416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does not-quite-debtakeover work? < 1287241461 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It did at some point. I haven't tested it in a long while. < 1287241484 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i guess the windows partition is a "nice to have" and it sounded more of a known quantity than upgrading ubuntu, given that they both require that i back up my files somehow. < 1287241542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Would it work to convert a bastardised half-Debian with a custom bootloader and an insane linuxrc on an ARM platform that uses Xfbdev? < 1287241547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To actual Debian? < 1287241560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: just move the ubuntu files to the windows partition < 1287241562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if there's space < 1287241563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless < 1287241564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1287241565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1287241572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't work < 1287241590 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've only tried it on borderline-sensible systems, and haven't tried it on ARM, so all I can say is "dorp." < 1287241628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, I got a debootstrap chroot working, and even got the init script to load into it. < 1287241633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I fucked it up for irrelevant reasons but that's not important.) < 1287241642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's just, y'know, I sorta don't want the Evil System above it. < 1287241705 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: once i am conscious today i plan to go out and buy something. external hdd that works, external dvd writer, or a Mac or something. < 1287241710 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not a mac. < 1287241732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's worth a try but I guarantee nothing :P < 1287241736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You'd probably love a Mac for a week because suddenly you've forgotten what Windows and Linux are and "hey, it's BSD" and then suddenly you want to murder someone. < 1287241757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you do it, because Macs make people GOAL-ORIENTED. < 1287241760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*CRAZY. < 1287241761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287241764 0 :elliott!~elliott@91.105.105.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287241765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOOPS < 1287241797 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's weird, but many of the developers where I work use Macs. So I've actually had to deal with porting-to-Mac issues at work. < 1287241804 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's BSD". Suuuuure. < 1287241807 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1287241821 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even get processes to change their process group! < 1287241856 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That userland veneer isn't fooling me! < 1287241866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It's actually BSD running on Mach. X_X < 1287241899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is totally the intended use of Mach. Take this microkernel infrastructure, then slap a monolithic kernel on it. PROBLEM SOLVED. < 1287242035 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wish I had a working burner. But I'm not trusting an external burner to be usable by this computer, now. An external HDD, at least that's a fairly generic USB storage device that any OS ought to understand. < 1287242483 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-48-165.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287242571 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287242698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hooray, BSD-Mach! MkLinux! Retardedness! < 1287242719 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-212.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287242777 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287242979 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-58-46.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287243074 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287243292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: Would it work to convert a bastardised half-Debian with a custom bootloader and an insane linuxrc on an ARM platform that uses Xfbdev? <-- is this about that weird thingy again? < 1287243311 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the one you fucked up twice < 1287243659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes. < 1287243670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but hey, before i fucked it up the second time, it booted into debian < 1287243671 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, have fun < 1287243672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with getty! < 1287243677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gettys, even, plural! < 1287243683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well it's still bricked... < 1287243684 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, how did you fuck it up then? < 1287243698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I forgot) < 1287243721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i tried to make getty use something other than /bin/login that cleared the screen first to clear up some visual artefacts from the bootloader < 1287243730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it was such a freaking simple change, i didn't bother to have a /bin/login one around < 1287243735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out linux makes no sense at all < 1287243825 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm. < 1287243840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm too many spaces for a title bar < 1287243851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not at all < 1287243857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fits perfectly here < 1287243860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people have smaller windows :P < 1287243868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it goes into my actual title bar though < 1287243871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok you're right < 1287243873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that still says just emacs :P < 1287243876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i meant topic bar < 1287243880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1287243881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243886 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is halway through my topic bar atm < 1287243890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm aligning it perfectly to mine and fuck everyone else :D < 1287243896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more than halfway < 1287243901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1287243912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam < 1287243912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1287243914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1287243920 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1287243923 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect < 1287243924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1287243925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoit Mandelbrot http://is.gd/g4uID < 1287243928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIGHT < 1287243933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no this is disrespectful. < 1287243934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the man died! < 1287243938 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nah, not worth doing a fight < 1287243942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA IW IN < 1287243945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I WIN < 1287243946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ahem* < 1287243950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287244065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i only put spaces there because i thought it's a bit lame to have a eulogy for someone so awesome right next to a long log link drowning it out < 1287244067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also why i shortened it) < 1287244074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this logic is admittedly leaky < 1287244094 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287244270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Benoît Mandelbrot died? Citation? < 1287244296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kottke.org/10/10/benoit-mandelbrot-rip cites a lot of twats on Twitter (unreliable, but...) < 1287244297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/ < 1287244302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nassim Nicholas Taleb's website < 1287244304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassim_Nicholas_Taleb < 1287244324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Taleb is collaborating with Benoit Mandelbrot on a general theory of risk management.[59]" < 1287244328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if he says Mandelbrot's dead... < 1287244346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's either correct or the worst kind of troll. < 1287244356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think he's evil :P < 1287244625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thank you very much. Excuse me for sitting I am very old." -- Mandelbrot, TED talk, February 2010 < 1287244656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Please excuse < 1287245838 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287246097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maan. The reason behind so many poor design decisions in Javascript. < 1287246108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give me a break; we had 10 days and it had to look like Java." < 1287246163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most perverse is its complete lack of integers. < 1287246206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: JavaScript was the result of Brendan Eich being told to write something like Java and deciding to make it as much like Scheme as he could. < 1287246217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think what it would have been like if he'd just made something like Java. The man's a hero! < 1287246235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite true. < 1287246257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You've got to give him credit for churning out something not completely revolting in 10 days. :) < 1287246402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Ten days without much sleep to build JS from scratch, "make it look like Java" (I made it look like C), and smuggle in its saving graces: first class functions (closures came later but were part of the plan), Self-ish prototypes (one per instance, not many as in Self).” < 1287246406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287246455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287246834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O' < 1287246855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, Windows has *two* different notions of the default character set. < 1287246862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "OEM" and the "ANSI" code pages. < 1287246889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "OEM" code pages are chosen from the DOS set, and are used for DOS programs. < 1287246907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "ANSI" code pages are the full set of Windows-supported character sets, and are used for everything else. < 1287247134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed. < 1287247284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So many crazy hacks. < 1287247307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I guess it's at least justified since they still have the *notion* of running this freakish, 30 year old programs. < 1287247315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, these. < 1287247382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yeah on sane systems you use something like dosbox to run them :P < 1287247414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DOSemu if you're sufficiently lucky. :) < 1287247438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though, it doesn't take *much* luck to be running x86. < 1287247449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or x86_64. < 1287247490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it needed vm86() which wouldn't work on x86-64 < 1287247513 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: On x86-64, it emulates an 8086. < 1287247520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But directly executes 32-bit code. < 1287247539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1287247565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard to just emulate an 8086, after all. :) < 1287247616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i am now going to use the FELL TYPES < 1287247619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this fact must always be announced < 1287247636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would. < 1287247643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You...what? < 1287247690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snarky, somewhat rude, yet utterly meaningless comment in American vernacular. < 1287247707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I get that, I just didn't see the relevance at all :) < 1287247719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if \documentclass{memoir} would work for a newspaper/magazine type dealie... < 1287247732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It made sense when I hit enter. < 1287247780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. On other architectures, you *could* use qemu to run dosemu. XD < 1287247870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, where the fuck is the details of the ipsec netlink kernel interface documented. Not in any man page I can find, nor in the Documentation directory of the kernel it seems! < 1287247948 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha (rough translation): "Sugar is harmful but only if it fattens, hard fat is harmful even if it doesn't fatten" -- Cholesterol researcher Petri Kovanen. M-M-M-MONSTER FAIL! < 1287248075 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently he got sugar and hard fat the wrong way around... < 1287248106 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Adobe has documentation on how to use a 32-bit Flash on 64-bit systems. They actually point you towards nspluginwrapper. < 1287248110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new vocabulary entry: M-M-M-MONSTER FAIL! < 1287248151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I. Uh. Um? < 1287248195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "I. Uh. Um?"? < 1287248239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that is yet another new entry! < 1287248276 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .|.. < 1287248277 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I din't invent that... :-/ < 1287248287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Never heard it though. < 1287248293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You sure are angry today. < 1287248307 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAANGER < 1287248334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: At what/whom? < 1287248354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing at all. < 1287248520 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the "hard fat" is techno fat (as opposed to animal fat or one of few kinds hard plant fats), then its harmful even if it doesn't fatten... < 1287248976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: \setmainfont[Mapping=tex-text]{IM FELL Great Primer PRO} < 1287248978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a w e s o m e < 1287249019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[I'd suggest you try LuaLaTeX with fontspec from github[1], it should < 1287249019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work with microtype package while being able to use OpenType fonts. But < 1287249019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that this is a development version of fontspec and not very well < 1287249019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested.]] < 1287249031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LuaTeX can do OpenType and microtype. Discuss. < 1287249115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't LuaTeX the replacement for pdfTeX? < 1287249283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1287249303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And if you have TeX, you probably have LuaTeX too. < 1287249306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it. < 1287249360 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mrf < 1287249375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://github.com/wspr/fontspec < 1287249378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is the initial generation of the fontspec package with support for LuaLaTeX. (Previously, fontspec was XeLaTeX-only.)" < 1287249397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on CTAN. < 1287249417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if that's the LuaTeX-supporting version, though. < 1287249424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Regardless: MICROTYPE WITH OPENTYPE FONTS OMG OMG OMG < 1287249558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1287249745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Feck; you need TeX Live 2010. < 1287249748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu has 2009. < 1287249753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you still on Gentoo? < 1287249926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: bork < 1287249926 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: look and say, hey, look, i just want ( 3 2) ( 2 5)" means end the current box with a web server etc, and it < 1287250055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1287250062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bah! < 1287250082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have concluded that everybody sucks at everything, and keeping Gentoo is less work. < 1287250210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: aptik < 1287250210 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's what i'm doing. plz let me try your benchmark... < 1287250211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: KITTEN < 1287250316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: KI'TENN < 1287250437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Things that are ridiculous: the st ligature < 1287250696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things that are ridiculous: how poor text display is on computers. < 1287250754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no it's awesome < 1287250755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so is linux < 1287250804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesomely bad, perhaps. < 1287250831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you know what else is awesome? < 1287250833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software < 1287251033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, nmap can't do UDP scan over ipv6 < 1287251039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck am I supposed to debug this then < 1287251222 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287251374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does the link in the topics go to the logs? < 1287251602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yse < 1287251603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yes < 1287251614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to tell with a shortener involved < 1287251619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I shortened it out of some sort of warped respect for Mandelbrot that I shouldn't make anything overshadow the RIP < 1287251628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I see < 1287251631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have removed the log link but that violates Freenode's policy. < 1287251636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like the link is going to an obituary or something < 1287251645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I might add some sort of divider. < 1287251649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise that Mandelbrot had been still alive... < 1287251649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I've spelled his name incorrectly. < 1287251693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoît Mandelbrot (logs: http://is.gd/g4uID) < 1287251706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1287251711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though my client filters out the multiple spaces < 1287251805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your client is odd < 1287251890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's just doing things Befunge-98-style rather than Befunge-93-style < 1287251894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, nice and modern! < 1287252199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I will now download a torrent from torrentz using only the infohash and the tracker list. < 1287252212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm kerr-aazy < 1287252300 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287252321 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-177.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287252387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do per-file priorities actually work well? < 1287252530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Hell yeah they do. < 1287252576 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever in any respect < 1287252630 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oshit mandelbrot died? :((( < 1287252650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same version of strongswan on two different computers, both claim to be sending the packets to set up ipsec. Only one side actually sends such packages according to wireshark, Turning off all firewalls doesn't help. < 1287252913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: no, we're just saying RIP Mandelbrot because he's gone to sleep < 1287252915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we want him to rest peacefully < 1287252917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he's dead. < 1287252936 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you're an asshole kthx < 1287252953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well i could have just /not/ put the obituary in the topic. < 1287252970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mmm, screw torrent files. < 1287252982 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....that's not an obit < 1287252983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it worked fine < 1287252987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of time to connect though < 1287252991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: well he's dead and there's spaces. < 1287252994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spaces are the obit < 1287253000 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously, here i am expressing my distress at his death, and you're like "o yah, you're an idiot" < 1287253003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're, like, fractal space < 1287253006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1287253046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what, now it works and then ipv4 stops working? < 1287253598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why Java bootstraps
< 1287253793 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Beno�t Mandelbrot http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/17/us/17mandelbrot.html?_r=1 (logs: http://is.gd/g4uID) < 1287253798 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an obit < 1287253826 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287253856 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-1-177.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287254105 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1287254132 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1287254217 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mandelbrot dead!? D: < 1287254235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287254246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoît Mandelbrot (logs: http://is.gd/g4uID) < 1287254253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic is deliberately sparse. < 1287254255 0 :asie[afk]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[sad] < 1287254273 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worse thing is < 1287254278 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the first time i've heard about him < 1287254303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...seriously? < 1287254317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[sad]: Have you never seen the Mandelbrot set? < 1287254429 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have < 1287254438 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i didn't know who made it, other than it was someone named Mandelbrot < 1287254447 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know his name was Benoît < 1287254474 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone's not a Joco fan. < 1287254534 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is sad that < 1287254559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i listened to that song just minutes ago, heh < 1287254574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mandelbrot's in heaven, at least he will be when he's dead / Right now he's still alive and teaching math at Yale" needs... updating < 1287254583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the song also describes how to construct a julia set < 1287254608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because the lyrics for a Mandelbrot set didn't fit as well. :P < 1287254620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: iirc it was an actual mistake at first < 1287254623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then he decided it fit better < 1287254627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1287254632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: on the *other* hand: < 1287254659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh too long to paste < 1287254734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1287254738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to know hell itself? < 1287254752 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda? no thanks < 1287254803 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-171.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287254805 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1287254831 0 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-4-171.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287254888 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287254889 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1287254903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Huh. Wal-Mart is attempting to become more environmentally friendly in its supply chain because it's concluded that raping the environment hurts their bottom line. < 1287254983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FREE MEERKAT IN ACTION < 1287254996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MARQUIS < 1287254997 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to a corporations heart is through its bottom line < 1287254998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MARKET < 1287255024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Actually, a large part of this is courtesy of subsidies in pretty much every developed nation but the US. :P < 1287255038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREEEEE MARQUIIIIIIIS < 1287255409 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FightClub is gone! C_SPLAT is gone! < 1287255772 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@174-29-86-51.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287255899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, something wrong with the Crawl bots? < 1287255917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Henzell and co are still on IRC < 1287255941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably, just the Crawl termcast bots < 1287255964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, they're back, as of about 5 minutes ago < 1287256206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but why would you want to? < 1287256223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: context? < 1287256243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even after checking scrollback, I don't understand the question < 1287256264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: watch Crawl, that is :) < 1287256271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287256285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to gather evidence for a proof that Crawl is fundamentally boring < 1287256305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the opposite of Vagrant < 1287256422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Newsweek was bought for $1. < 1287256423 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1287256430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not an *issue* of Newsweek. The entire operation. < 1287256435 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, i know < 1287256441 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links or it didnt happen < 1287256442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[sad]: I didn't! < 1287256451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: presumably they bought the debt at the same time < 1287256453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[sad]: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/10/06/AR2010100606096_pf.html < 1287256454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to reduce the price < 1287256456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1287256459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the usual explanation < 1287256464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: All $10 million of it. < 1287256480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least it makes more sense than buying a company with its own money, like happened to Manchester United; I'm surprised that's even possible) < 1287256483 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually $10.000.001 < 1287256490 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the bills < 1287256516 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, y'know, it's kinda like how you can pay off a credit card using another credit card. < 1287256522 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PEOPLE FUCKING DO THIS.) < 1287256549 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi i've printed chits for my fantasy, wanna join? < 1287256556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it's not actually completely implausible < 1287256573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, given enough credit card companies and enough crazy introductory offers, you can actually make money like that < 1287256593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is insane, is paying off a credit card using another credit card, then continuing to use the first one, which is what often actually happens < 1287256656 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lap kitty! < 1287256726 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1287256735 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't some weird typo like I was expecting < 1287256748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's not insane because of the debts. < 1287256773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, who'd want to buy it, even for $1? < 1287256785 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: MOGULS < 1287256815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That site indicates that $10 million of the (undisclosed) total dept is being paid by the ORIGINAL owner. < 1287256844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, debt :P < 1287256853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so they bought all but $10 million of the debt < 1287256864 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287256875 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is probably more on the order of 9 digits of debt than 8 :P < 1287256965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In that case, who'd want to buy it, even for $1? < 1287256970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well because it's like buying it for $1 + debt < 1287256977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you think you can make it profitable... < 1287257684 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, because of the sheer insanity of credit cards, people were able to keep that going for *ages*. < 1287257719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like a way to game a naïve credit rating algorithm < 1287257733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does fuck with your credit score a lot. < 1287257744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each new credit card application reduces your credit score. < 1287257748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, phew < 1287257754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad that safeguard exists < 1287257757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, credit card companies were handing out cards to just about anyone. < 1287257772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had a horrifying realisation "hey, you're technically paying all the cards back all the time, wouldn't that lead to a perfect score?" < 1287257777 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With the credit rating just determining your interest rate. < 1287257801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really understand credit cards at all < 1287257810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to be built on the assumption that people will forget to pay < 1287257811 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral of the story: the US financial system is basically a gigantic casino. < 1287257814 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they are < 1287257824 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, more precisely, the assumption that people will overspend < 1287257831 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be unable to pay < 1287257836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, if people overspend, they go bankrupt and can't pay you back < 1287257857 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only go bankrupt once every 8 years, IIRC. < 1287257875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, I'm not talking about technically bankrupt, but actually < 1287257887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether someone can legally go bankrupt or not doesn't influence whether they actually own any money < 1287257899 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, they make quite a bit of money just off of people who merely pay the minimum fees. < 1287257919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "just pay the minimum" is how you use a credit card as a loan < 1287257921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, even more importantly for how they actually make money: they charge merchants per transaction. < 1287257927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I figured that < 1287257935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, they insist that credit card and cash prices are the same < 1287257956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, every time you use a credit card, the person you're buying from loses money, compared to if you'd paid cash < 1287257985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb385791.aspx < 1287257989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does 7 use the same exact model? < 1287258001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that they make at least a *small* amount of money just so long as they end up getting back at least 100% of what's paid for using credit cards. < 1287258007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This model, also used in Windows 7" < 1287258013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading comprehension: It's where you READ something and you then COMPREHEND it. < 1287258019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for instance, using them as a 1-month, 0 interest loan) < 1287258065 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know how to stop skimming
< 1287258075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's actually a reasonable security model, surprisingly. < 1287258090 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically making "administrator" a matter of being on the sudoers list. < 1287258102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much of Windows' changes since Vista, apart from the DRM stuff, have been reasonable, but too little too late < 1287258108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, since and including Vista < 1287258122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the only problem with it is that previously, Windows programs assumed that they were administrator. < 1287258147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, older programs keep causing Windows to ask me to allow changes to the HD < 1287258150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, well, can't really fault Microsoft for the result of that being annoyance when they move toward sanity. < 1287258180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as that old model *makes some amount of sense* for single-user, non-networked computers. < 1287258207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: invent a language < 1287258208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No excuse keeping it past, oh, Windows 95, though. < 1287258211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's the Internet that caught Microsoft out < 1287258212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in a world without bugs, kind of < 1287258220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1287258220 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm < 1287258231 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, for less than trustworthy programs < 1287258249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then again, even in the newer model, someone could trust a less-than-trustworthy program < 1287258290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If the user is intentionally executing a malicious program, all security models pretty much go out the window. < 1287258303 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only a question of how much damage can be done at that point. < 1287258337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if the model basically keeps programs sandboxed, and the user doesn't trust it enough to let it out of its sandbox.. < 1287258353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I suppose the question implies full trust < 1287258366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the point is that the user can just be told that "This needs to be out of its sandbox" and a moron might follow through on that. < 1287258447 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A while ago, I imagined an OS where the user would be quizzed before being allowed to let stuff out of their sandboxes < 1287258537 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AKA Java < 1287258557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got a pop-up recently that tried to do some Java thing < 1287258571 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know what it was, so kept clicking Cancel to the authorize thingy < 1287258576 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone not computer savvy.... < 1287258591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aye. < 1287258613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Is trained to click "Okay" to everything. < 1287258647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides that the Ninite install of VLC sucks
< 1287258666 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It apparently doesn't install the VLC web plugin thingy < 1287258671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True = False < 1287258672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True < 1287258672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1287258672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True is False < 1287258672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1287258673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Python < 1287258709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that an older version? < 1287258715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1287258723 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287258731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~$ python < 1287258731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python 2.6.6 (r266:84292, Sep 15 2010, 16:22:56) < 1287258731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[GCC 4.4.5] on linux2 < 1287258731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information. < 1287258731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True = False < 1287258732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True < 1287258733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did they make unchangable recently? < 1287258734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1287258736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> True is False < 1287258737 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let True == False = True in True == False < 1287258738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1287258796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants XP Mode
< 1287258829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Windows 7 ships with one. < 1287258834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: only Ultimate. < 1287258837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I liken starting one’s computing career with Unix, say as an undergraduate, to being born in East Africa. It is intolerably hot, your body is covered with lice and flies, you are malnourished and you suffer from numerous curable diseases. But, as far as young East Africans can tell, this is simply the natural condition and they live within it. By the time they find out differently, it is too late. They already think that the writing of shell scripts < 1287258837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is a natural act." -- Ken Pier, Xerox PARC < 1287258838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "XP". < 1287258849 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287258853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ah, right. *That's* why my grandmother bought Ultimate... < 1287258858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: x_x < 1287258862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But XP Mode is almost useless. < 1287258899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine it would be just like the fun I had with WinXP in VMware some years ago < 1287258900 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey, she didn't *consult* with me before going out to buy it. < 1287258902 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let 1 + 1 = 3 in 1 + 1 < 1287258904 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1287258925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "The best version of Windows 7 is called 'Ubuntu'." < 1287258942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Therefore Haskell sucks, right? < 1287258946 0 :Harpyon!~Harpyon@ti0031a380-0757.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287258946 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1287258951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Therefore the Python comment is silly. < 1287258958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I was joking with my Haskell thing. < 1287258960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still. < 1287258960 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : !haskell let 2 + 2 = Gregor in 2 + 2 < 1287258965 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let 2 + 2 = Gregor in 2 + 2 < 1287258966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True and False should be *constants* ffs. < 1287258969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not overridable. At all. < 1287258969 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1287258981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least if you're making a language like Python. < 1287258991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[sad]: Gregor is undefined. < 1287259073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287259105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need Ultimate to be able to have multiple locales installed on Windows at the same time‽ < 1287259133 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the book is shipped to me, then I can reimplement TeX. < 1287259135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's astoundingly shitty. < 1287259157 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287259177 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And use this reimplementation as the one I put in Linux distribution. It should pass the TRIP test and also the TRIP'' test. < 1287259199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without Ultimate, you have a system-wide locale instead of a per-user locale. < 1287259202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... Retarded. < 1287259221 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1287259305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there some way that can tell it to change locale at login so that you can make fake per-user locale? < 1287259316 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No. < 1287259342 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you need to reboot to change the system locale. < 1287259386 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you don't usually need a per-user locale, which might be why they didn't do it except Ultimate. < 1287259400 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't like that, use Linux or perhaps. < 1287259413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you can have per-app locales. < 1287259526 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is "applocale" program available for Windows, but I don't know if there is some versions it does not work with. < 1287259720 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use credit-card. And I don't want to use credit-card. I prefer to pay everything by cash. And if I run a business, I should put a service charge on any payment that is not cash. < 1287259797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means you wouldn't be able to run credit cards. < 1287259808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you do the same for debit cards or checks, though?\ < 1287259820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no charges for those) < 1287259849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I hate naming schemes for serials. < 1287259855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TV series, web series, etc.) < 1287259857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filenaming schemes. < 1287259857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is. < 1287259877 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I run it entirely by myself, of course I will not accept any payment other than cash, but I don't run a business all by myself, so the other people can help. However I would add service charges for everything that isn't cash. But more service charge for credit cards than for debit cards and checks. < 1287259898 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, as a curious related remark: in Sweden businesses are no longer allowed to add a charge to the price for debit and credit cards. Banks are however still allowed to charge businesses. < 1287259901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[season].[episode] Title", without leading 0s, works, but then what about extras for a series? What about extras that are chronologically related in some way? < 1287259923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps "[season].S Title" for specials and "[season].[episode]S Title" for chronological specials. < 1287259942 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Is it permitted to make a discount for cash payments, then? Or not? < 1287259942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, wouldn't be legal to add such charges in Sweden any more. < 1287259947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't know < 1287259958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I use [season]/[episode] - Title < 1287259968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : When the book is shipped to me, then I can reimplement TeX. < 1287259970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus christ. < 1287259980 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I would assume that it isn't, otherwise every business would be doing that by now. < 1287259992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, to make up for the banks still charging them < 1287259997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With leading 0s, but only because everything insists on UTF-8betical sort. < 1287260019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Why season directories? < 1287260038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, what about extra material? Just in the season directory? < 1287260042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about chronological extra material? < 1287260044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah. < 1287260056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about chronological extra material? < 1287260081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you trying to put this in an hierarchical tree! You need to free yourself from the flawed file system abstraction here. < 1287260082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's chronologically related to a specific episode, I'll probably do something like [episode].extra - Title < 1287260099 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not ironic, well, mostly not) < 1287260105 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all just a hack to get around pitiful, pitiful lacking of metadata, of course. < 1287260117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah maybe i'll just put it all in one big file and seek around it. < 1287260144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION removes Adobe Reader 9.3 with prejudice
< 1287260189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the best way would be to have some sort of linked list to indicate chronological order, and some ordered set of seasons, each containing an ordered set of episodes. < 1287260199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that should handle extra material < 1287260210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A linked list? Seriously? < 1287260217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, depends on how many < 1287260226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That fails horribly with complex chronological ordering. < 1287260231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, an ordered set would be better for large amounts of data < 1287260239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, um, complex in what way? < 1287260239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time travel. < 1287260240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I HAVE A SOLUTION *deletes extra material* < 1287260242 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh < 1287260252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he meant release chronological :P < 1287260253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but there can be time travel within an episode < 1287260262 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I thought that is what you meant < 1287260264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where chronological order is an ordered graph. :) < 1287260272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :P < 1287260283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1287260296 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A *directed* graph. < 1287260302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Written any code lately? DHT IT < 1287260303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should reimplement TeX because I don't like the way the current TeX distributions work; they work by requiring the TeX program in Pascal WEB, and then it also needs a lot of change files, and conversion programs and a lot of other things. So now it can be rewritten using Enhanced CWEB and omitting a lot of unnecessary things. < 1287260339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, if there is time travel within an episode. Then one episode could show up at multiple places in the timeline. and that is kind of tricky to represent. Especially if you need to deal with "original timeline" vs. "changed timeline due to timetravel" < 1287260348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I am banging my head against the wall. < 1287260350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also crying. < 1287260357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs again at Microsoft...
< 1287260362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Starter Edition of Windows. < 1287260362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I mean: time travel could be used to retcon an entire previous episode! < 1287260364 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teehee. < 1287260388 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Make it worse than the real thing in regions where piracy of the real thing is the norm!" < 1287260473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sad. < 1287260477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY MUST LANGUAGES SUCK < 1287260491 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why did you bang your head and crying? < 1287260499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you going to break your head now? < 1287260512 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION should obtain lunch
< 1287260513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Because you're reimplementing TeX. And yes. < 1287260515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is breaking. < 1287260587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you not like reimplementing TeX? But surely the current way is really messy, isn't it? < 1287260642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well yes. But still. Is there anything you won't reimplement in your distro? < 1287260695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably I don't reimplement everything, but I might modify many things. < 1287261429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA < 1287261433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xrandr -o inverted < 1287261435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sure something < 1287261436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1287261651 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287262004 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: xrandr -o normal < 1287262008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah :P < 1287262456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if there's a way to convince an ATI card to do pillarboxed or letterboxed output for resolutions not at a 16:10 aspect ratio
< 1287262485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my monitor, for no apparent reason, just scales it all to 16x10) < 1287262522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sucks. < 1287262884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does 0 on the end of a debian library package mean? < 1287262888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. libfoo0, libfoo0-dev < 1287262904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so version. < 1287262912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1287262925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come the libfoo-dev packages sometimes have the number after foo and sometimes don't? < 1287263118 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have the number when currently or at some point in the past it has been possible to have both versions installed and usable concurrently. < 1287263134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/both/two or more/ < 1287263146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ... kinda silly. < 1287263243 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1287263247 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The weirdest thing is < 1287263255 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know Mandlebrot was still alive < 1287263430 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1287263442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is weird about that? there are obviously many people that were famous but haven't done anything particularly newsworthy in the last decade or so < 1287263456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because mandelbrot seems like one of those guys who's dead < 1287263474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but his famous book was only in the 80s < 1287263476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afair < 1287263482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and IRC is full of young brats. < 1287263507 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1287263532 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his discoveries are all surprisingly recent too, I always thought the mandelbrot set and all that stuff was discovered in the 30s or something by a mandelbrot at least 50 years older than he actually was < 1287263600 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was vaguely under that impression too. < 1287263649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you do realise you need a graphical computer to do popular science with fractals? < 1287263655 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But French mathematicians always sound older than they are. Is Bezier still alive? < 1287263667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: He died on Thursday. < 1287263671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm < 1287263676 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you wrote "Benoit" for some reason. < 1287263678 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IGNORE ME. < 1287263687 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah hi Gregor, thank you. < 1287263722 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!haskell let catseye = 0 in catseye < 1287263735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pierre Étienne Bézier (September 1, 1910 . November 25, 1999) < 1287263756 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1287263756 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my unicode is currently even brokener than usual, some server misconfiguration) < 1287263770 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, it's true, french mathematicians always sound older than they are :) < 1287263815 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, is Nicolas Bourbaki still alive or not... < 1287263817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : his discoveries are all surprisingly recent too, I always thought the mandelbrot set and all that stuff was discovered in the 30s or something by a mandelbrot at least 50 years older than he actually was < 1287263818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away
< 1287263818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i felt, yeah < 1287263830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realise fractals were so new and controversial at the time < 1287263836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're so... obviously awesome < 1287263848 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: never alive due to not being an actual person :P < 1287263852 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (at least) I am confusing his work to a degree with Julia's. < 1287263857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: THAT'S THE JOKE < 1287263863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: DON'T SPOIL THE JOKE < 1287263878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090819180841/uncyclopedia/images/1/13/Thats_the_joke.jpg < 1287263886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...you do realise you need a graphical computer to do popular science with fractals? < 1287263890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason you couldn't have traced an outline :D < 1287263908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaaah. Only two of the modes on my X11 configuration are at the native aspect ratio < 1287263911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that super-quick judgements like these tend not to be thought about... < 1287263920 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Julia published his first work on the Julia set in 1918, it looks like. So, yeah. < 1287263922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: BTW, you know how you advocated 16:9 screens? < 1287263929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fucking sucks at 13". < 1287263938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like more height please. < 1287263947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've not really advocated 16:9 screens for much more than video. < 1287263964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ideally, I'd have like a 9:16 screen for most purposes that could be rotated to 16:9 for video. < 1287263977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Vertical screens tend to suck. < 1287263983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh, and vertical 9:16 screens are abhorrent. < 1287263994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strains your neck to look from top to bottom, and it's so thin you feel like your screen's anorexic. < 1287264027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dual 16:10, horizontal. < 1287264033 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz I'm awesome like that. < 1287264035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have your mom, horizontal. < 1287264036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. Y'know what? 4:3 is a nice aspect ratio for computer monitors. < 1287264047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz I'm awesome like that. < 1287264063 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Whatever floats yer boat, man. *gak* < 1287264071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor just died. < 1287264075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gak* < 1287264077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just died! < 1287264080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kag* < 1287264084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just gakked. < 1287264097 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god. For his entire professional career, Julia had no nose. It was blown off in the war. < 1287264114 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_Levi-Montalcini is clearly relevant to this discussion. < 1287264137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: He originally designed the Julia set to be experienced olfactorily. < 1287264147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Took him a while to realise that wouldn't work. < 1287264184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it resembles those internal nose pictures, doesn't it < 1287264226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/Gustav_Herglotz,_Gaston_Julia.jpeg < 1287264226 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gaston Julia (right), with Gustav Herglotz, comparing dogs" < 1287264229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as we can see, he also didn't have eyes < 1287264251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mandelbrot set, discovered by Pierre Fatou and Julia" < 1287264256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that law again? < 1287264265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that things are named after the second people to do them < 1287264268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never the first < 1287264295 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are cute dogs < 1287264310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw that the other day < 1287264323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: That's what a FURRY would say. < 1287264348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: One day, a budding young Amiga programmer, ERIC SCHWARTZ, had that thought. < 1287264351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WHAT CATSEYE? < 1287264352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WHAT < 1287264370 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah so anyway < 1287264391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[catseye hangs himself quietly] < 1287264395 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a working external HDD now, and I am happily copying everything to it. < 1287264407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Do not lose that HD :P < 1287264415 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's small enough... < 1287264459 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only hope it's more reliable than that SimpleTech poc < 1287264479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You should totally install NetBSD. < 1287264489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[cogs whirr in catseye's mind and a chain reaction begins...] < 1287264494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigler%27s_law_of_eponymy < 1287264534 0 :asie[sad]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1287264560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why was asie sad, anyhow < 1287264592 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because mandelbrot died, i think < 1287264601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287264605 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: TOTALLY INSTALL NETBSD < 1287264619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I TrueCrypt my HD? < 1287264623 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: finish Kitten, and I'll install that! < 1287264635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: But install NetBSD first, since that's totally like at least 33% of Kitten. < 1287264648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1287264682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The #1 obstacle is going to be install media, you see -- no CD/DVD-R. < 1287264691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Got a USB stick? < 1287264702 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I might not have tried CD-R, but I know DVD-R just doesn't happening. < 1287264705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Got a USB stick? < 1287264721 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I picked up another one when I got my ext hdd. < 1287264733 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you install *NetBSD* from one of those. < 1287264735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yes. < 1287264737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yes you can. < 1287264744 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I might. < 1287264750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Maybe not without the help of some third-party software, but I Can Help With That. < 1287264765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ (available for Windows and Linux) + NetBSD 5.0.2 ISO = tada. < 1287264781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It has the ability to download NetBSD among others and put it on the USB stick automatically but I don't trust that it gets the right ISO.) < 1287264806 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 2 hours for copy session #1 to finish. < 1287264807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: How old is the computer? Hopefully it can boot USB disks. < 1287264830 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err it probably can, it's not THAT old. < 1287264843 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so this is what Vorpal was talking about. < 1287264850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Was he talking about unetbootin too? < 1287264860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except more incoherently, I guess. < 1287264870 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I thought it was some kind of PXE thing. I mean, its got "net" in it. < 1287264876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Yeah it's a stupid name. < 1287264881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a very bad name. < 1287264902 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So would this work with *any* ISO image? < 1287264907 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, of suitable size < 1287264908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Maybe not Windows. < 1287264909 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has to use isolinux < 1287264912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It basically just installs SYSLINUX instead of ISOLINUX and I don't know how that works for NetBSD but whatever it has the option to download NetBSD so presumably it works. < 1287264914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: clearly not < 1287264919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=167328 < 1287264923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NetBSD" is one of the options there < 1287264925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetBSD almost assuredly uses isolinux. < 1287264929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is FreeBSD < 1287264930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nope < 1287264932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom BSD loader < 1287264936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "custom" < 1287264940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik it's just the bsd loader < 1287264943 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even on ISO? That's ... surprising. < 1287264943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may be wrong < 1287264948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Dude, it's BSD. < 1287264959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't use anyone else's shit, especially if it has "linux" in the name. < 1287264960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: EVERYTHING uses isolinux. < 1287264965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, fine. < 1287264966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. < 1287264968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It'll work fine. < 1287264974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Arch uses GRUB btw (but who gives a shit) < 1287264987 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grbtgrbtgrbthmok < 1287264992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wat < 1287265062 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what isolinux is but I don't see why this would depend on it < 1287265069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Don't worry about it < 1287265080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It'll either work or not -- if not, there's like 10 other ways to get it onto a USB stick. < 1287265084 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main consideration seems to be if the media's boot sequence understands that it can be run from a USB drive < 1287265088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: But it supports downloading NetBSD automatically. < 1287265089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's fine. < 1287265094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that means it supports it. < 1287265099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can download the iso and it will work fine. < 1287265106 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT WILL WORK FINE < 1287265111 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION zombie-arms
< 1287265217 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck are all these distros, anyway? < 1287265322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Crap, basically. < 1287265326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Don't use that list. < 1287265329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Just use the iso part. < 1287265332 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There simply isn't enough variation in the space of Linux install permutations to support as many distros as there are. Unless half of them are just "skins". < 1287265345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half of them are. < 1287265348 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going to be more than 2 hours to copy, it looks like. < 1287265351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half of them are forks that change approximately nothing. < 1287265353 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well. < 1287265369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the other half... :P < 1287265370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Why are you trying to recover Windows again? < 1287265417 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No *good* reason. < 1287265501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: NETBSD PURITY < 1287265535 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION drinks only rainwater
< 1287265633 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I stand corrected, NetBSD is too lame to use ISOLINUX, instead it uses a friggin' boot floppy in El Torito floppy emulation mode! < 1287265643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Amazing. < 1287265648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But unetbootin supports it. < 1287265650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So presumably it works. < 1287265668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unetbootin' really has LESS work to do with a boot floppy than with ISOLINUX *shrugs* < 1287265676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed :P < 1287265679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot floppy. Amazing. < 1287265683 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. All BSDs do it that way iirc. < 1287265686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is apparently incapable of typing "unetbootin" without an apostrphe at the end.
< 1287265700 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 2.88M disk image. < 1287265703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: So is this a CD-sized boot "floppy" or a floppy-sized bootloader that loads the full CD? < 1287265712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Bootloader. < 1287265716 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's 2.88M. < 1287265736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAME < 1287265740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, El Torito can also do hard drive emulation. < 1287265743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And here's my 600 meg floppy..." < 1287265746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :El Torito doesn't support arbitrary floppy sizes for emulation. It supports HDD emulation, but that's effectively implemented nowhere. < 1287265820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No emulation is the most reliable one on modern hardware, funnily enough. < 1287265873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence why everything uses ISOLINUX *shrugs* < 1287265879 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I take it Kitten will run the NetBSD kernel but will not go anywhere near the BSD boot model. < 1287265890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I hadn't even thought about the bootloader. < 1287265897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Is the hard-drive bootloader saner? < 1287265909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can then have ISOLINUX load a floppy disk emulation module. < 1287265909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287265910 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: mmmarginally < 1287265917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'll probably just do that :P < 1287265920 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddammit, netbsd still use CVS :( < 1287265924 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed ... < 1287265925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm, MEMDISK. < 1287265927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: So are you installing NetBSD or not < 1287265934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: If so, you are awesome and... and I might as well < 1287265943 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THe one on FreeBSD resides *entirely* in the boot sector, thus is tiny and crude. Nothing lie that LiLo monstrosity < 1287265945 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1287265952 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember about NetBSD's < 1287265960 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... MEMDISK can emulate a floppy, hard drive, *or* CD. < 1287265966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lilo monstrosity :D < 1287265969 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have not decided < 1287265970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Nobody's used LILO in like a decade :P < 1287265970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 bootlaoder, impressive < 1287265982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It means you can ANSWER COPIOUS QUESTIONS I HAVE FOR KITTEN < 1287265984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes they have < 1287265991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'M AN OPTIMIST DAMN IT < 1287265993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use ISOLINUX to boot MEMDISK to boot an ISO. < 1287265997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lilo is less shit than grub. < 1287266001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From RAM! < 1287266002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only complaint about lilo is... < 1287266008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you have to run it after upgrading your kernel!" < 1287266009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH NO < 1287266014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE DON'T HAVE PACKAGE MANAGERS THAT CAN DO THAT FOR US < 1287266015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNTHINKABLE < 1287266024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LILO's still the default on Slackware. < 1287266031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And an option on Debian-alikes. < 1287266041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And Gentoo, for that matter. < 1287266047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, every modern distro still has it. < 1287266049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nobody's used Slackware in MORE than a decade :P < 1287266055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course every distro still HAS it. < 1287266060 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just not the DEFAULT. < 1287266062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor just hates anything outside of the modern Debian canon. < 1287266063 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about boot0cfg is that you can use it completely independent of the OSes you have installed. I've used it to dual-boot Windows and Linux... < 1287266068 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty much. < 1287266079 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The downside is that almost all OSes show up as '????' < 1287266091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which is because he's either unimaginative, has terrible taste, or is just a contrarian to contrarians. < 1287266112 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian can do no wrong. < 1287266117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I have defined "right" as "Debian" < 1287266138 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is for plebians < 1287266141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If "right" is Debian, I want to be a terrorist and a rapist. < 1287266163 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And booleans are for hooligans < 1287266166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORST WAY OF PHRASING THAT EVER < 1287266171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahahahah. You could totally make a Win95 live CD. < 1287266173 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1287266177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xDDDD < 1287266181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DON'T < 1287266183 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "Debian" doesn't rhyme with "plebian" ... < 1287266186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's simple. < 1287266198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sure it does. < 1287266207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You make a HD image, and then make an ISO that boots that via MEMDISK. < 1287266208 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian is named after one Deb and one Ian. < 1287266211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1287266218 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pronounced like the name "Deb" concatenated with the name "Ian" < 1287266224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I define the pronunciation of Debian to be ... < 1287266230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: not likely to work on any hardware with enough RAM to actually stick that into RAM) < 1287266306 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just channel Ogden Nash, it'll be fine. < 1287266403 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why not? < 1287266433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I failed to make an AT&T SysV boot CD a while ago :P < 1287266517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It would need to load the entire HD image into RAM. < 1287266530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And Win95 doesn't like more than like 512M of RAM. < 1287266534 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1287266545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can fix that easily < 1287266551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a patch iirc < 1287266567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 95 installs are less than 512 megs i think... < 1287266570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to everyone: Stop making things that dislike more than a certain amount of resources < 1287266575 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That probably wouldn't work since MEMDISK only exposes the disk through BIOS, not IDE, and Win95 (presumably ... oh god please tell me it does :P) would use the IDE bus directly. < 1287266600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It *tries* to use the IDE bus directly. < 1287266607 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However, it's much simpler than that. Just make a tiny DOS boot partition that loads a CD driver, then have Win95 actually installed on the CD. < 1287266607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If it *can't*, then it uses DOS. < 1287266613 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ORLY? That's ... silly. < 1287266616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But awesome? Maybe? < 1287266637 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for certain values of awesome < 1287266656 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if there is any hook into the DOS filesystem routines, then it jumps into DOS to run those hooks. < 1287266714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has its own hooks into the DOS filesystem routines so that any DOS program will end up actually calling the Win95 filesystem routines. < 1287266735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *brain explodes* < 1287266747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *also* so that DOS filesystem hooks will jump back *into* Win95. < 1287266776 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running AT&T SysV off a boot CD would be more entertaining. < 1287266813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In essence, Win95 tried as hard as it could to pretend to be DOS. < 1287267068 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, probably NetBSD. < 1287267073 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Be happy. < 1287267085 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows first, though. < 1287267134 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--> < 1287267277 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thingy for protecting the hard drive. The software just reports and optionally toggles, right? < 1287267281 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes much more sense < 1287267598 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can only conclude that ipsec tunneling is very very very screwy < 1287267609 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) it doesn't use a pseudo interface like other tunnel types < 1287267614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ipso facto < 1287267645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) the routes look weird. Like via . < 1287267664 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) wireshark at the endpoints captures packages twice, first encrypted then decrypted < 1287267670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at notebook cases
< 1287267673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any guidance? < 1287267673 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, this does not happen for transport mode) < 1287267680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1287267685 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/rooCASE-Neoprene-Satellite-T115-S1100-11-6-Inch/dp/B0040OVEIE/ref=sr_1_8?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1287263804&sr=1-8 < 1287267699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks good, but I want a case I feel comfortable putting in my backpack < 1287267710 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my backpack tends to get mushed around a lot < 1287267732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's not so bad to carry a case around < 1287267781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION adjusts Vorpal's punnimeter again.
< 1287267815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't see what you are trying to pun on < 1287267849 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ipsec → ipso? No, that is too bad, can't be that < 1287267851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks something is rattling inside
< 1287267871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sulks in the corner. You're mean!
< 1287267887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? it was that? < 1287267891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing personal then < 1287267946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bawls at ear-damaging volume, then remembers sound doesn't transfer on irc
< 1287268111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Toshiba website: ACKNOWLEDGE MY LAPTOP'S EXISTENCE < 1287268423 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Please enable Toshiba Genuine Advantage, then call this number. < 1287268562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, exactly, were Vista's problems? < 1287268676 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It tasted like burning goats. < 1287268807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, huge, slow, annoying? < 1287268812 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more < 1287268919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287268939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 7's security model seems to force you to trust anything that you want to install < 1287268949 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's just that I keep installing old programs < 1287269103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, same for xp or vista really < 1287269215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still sucks < 1287269237 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, yeah, go for linux < 1287269241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be separate "Install" "Regular access" and "Full access" levels < 1287269264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instaling on Linux is always "full access" or "user-level" < 1287269278 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, 90% (a guesstimate) of the software doesn't need more than normal user access really < 1287269312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5% (again guesstimate) of the remaining just needs one or two small things, such as listening to a privileged port. < 1287269314 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But surely it's best to place the executables and other such files ouut of reach of normal access < 1287269319 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the remaining 5% really needs root < 1287269347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, on *nix I normally install non-package-manager stuff into ~/local < 1287269393 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, the only case I installed something outside of package manager that needed root was with kismet. Since package manager version was outdated, installed into /opt/kismet < 1287269404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that needs privileged access for some parts to run < 1287269410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, aircrack-ng too < 1287269416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is it < 1287269435 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, suppose there's an exploit in the browser. It can tamper with any software installed to ~/local < 1287269555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose there's an exploit in the kernel. Now anything can tamper with any software installed to /usr. < 1287269565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose there's an exploit in the CPU. Now anything can make your bus explode. < 1287269586 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose there's an exploit in the very laws of physics. Suppose that supposing exploits exist here and there isn't all that helpful. < 1287269638 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But browser exploits are presumably common. At least on Windows they are, even outside of IE. Why would Linux browsers be different in that respect? < 1287269708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://www.exitmundi.nl/vacuum.htm < 1287269746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schild%27s_Ladder < 1287269766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Suppose there's an exploit in the CPU. Now anything can make your bus explode. <-- only if the bus trusts the CPU! < 1287269781 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also needs some sort of explosive device built in < 1287269813 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, why would I browse with same user account? < 1287269815 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is that ever going to happen? < 1287269815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just silly < 1287269858 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, oh, so ~/local with installed stuff is different from regular usage account? < 1287269869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now: To get that model of security into everyone's hands < 1287269923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's ways of getting executable-specific permissions (y'know, where each *program* is limited in what it can do based on what the program is, rather than who's running it). < 1287269935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The *problem* is that it's often a royal pain to deal with. < 1287269954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, err what? < 1287269967 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, no, browser runs under a non-regular account < 1287269973 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Still, some distros are actually shipping using that. < 1287269973 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1287269982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ Vorpal) < 1287269995 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you mean ipsec, rsbac, and such < 1287269999 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, apparmor too < 1287270003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SELinux and friends. < 1287270021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, the ubuntu profiles for apparmor for user applications are generally useless < 1287270028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they more or less allow $HOME < 1287270048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writing a profile for firefox would be extremely hard < 1287270052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that they do that to make it easier to deal with, but doesn't that kinda defeat the point? < 1287270060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287270062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1287270108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparmor_status claims there are profiles for tcpdump, cupsd, ntpd, various network-manager things and so on. evince is the only "user app" that has a profile < 1287270125 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, writing profiles for daemons is way way simpler < 1287270125 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing that requires deep analysis of programs, I thin... well, maybe. Would it be ok if profiles were written by the developers of the programs, or is that a fundamentally stupid and idiotic idea? I'm thinking the latter for not completely trusted programs, but my understanding of AppArmor might not be complete < 1287270151 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, well depends on if you trust them < 1287270157 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are worried about bugs < 1287270161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then yes probably < 1287270168 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287270182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the idea I want is to have to trust as little as possible < 1287270194 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, then you need to write them yourself, have fun < 1287270197 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much access could Joe Schmoe random userland app possibly want? < 1287270201 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and write your own browser < 1287270206 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ignores AppArmor
< 1287270226 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just trying to think of a nice usable security model < 1287270232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I hate this keyboard. < 1287270234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, consider firefox: saving download needs access. Same does file upload < 1287270239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are things you sometimes want < 1287270245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, true < 1287270276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there work on a user-friendly capabilities system? < 1287270288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security is really, really, really annoying with a traditional, hierarchical filesystem. < 1287270299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, or what about checking a .html file locally, if you are testing a website, or just browsing local documentation < 1287270329 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually iirc plash has some sort of override-file-open-gtk-widget-with-trusted-one < 1287270342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow selective access < 1287270344 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not sure you can call that a traditional, hierarchical filesystem. < 1287270345 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1287270355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well it is accessing one < 1287270366 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but true, it isn't one in itself < 1287270370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just... Displays as one. < 1287270394 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally need to download and try the unetin thing before I try recovering Windows, in case that wipes out more than it should. < 1287270412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't need AppArmor and SELINUX and that stuff; when I make something in Linux for program capability security, instead I can add a single system call for that purpose: set_overcall(int system_call_number,void*(*new_function)(void*args,int flag)) < 1287270421 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, unetin? is that different from unetboot? < 1287270426 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unetbootin < 1287270431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, also: "recovering"? what happened? < 1287270441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ... So, you're wanting something that can trace system calls? < 1287270454 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, you mean.... ptrace? < 1287270461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, we call that ptrace. < 1287270486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it exists, and is what debuggers use < 1287270490 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Something like that. set_overcall would be able to override itself as well, and you would need to do so if you want to have actual security. < 1287270506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as stealth so that application programs cannot tell they are overridden. < 1287270511 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a useful subset of turing-completeness that would allow solving the halting problem, while still being powerful enough for most uses? < 1287270516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could easily do that in ptrace, just catch any ptrace related syscalls < 1287270520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do something else instead < 1287270536 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's perfectly feasible. < 1287270547 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, i meant unetbootin. < 1287270548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: O, is that what ptrace does? OK, I suppose perhaps that can work < 1287270558 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, ah < 1287270574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I will need to learn how (hopefully I will learn how) < 1287270582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ptrace does a lot of things. It is able to set breakpoints and so on after all for debuggers < 1287270588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prod registers and what not < 1287270597 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, it's called "primitive recursive functions" < 1287270602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plash *intends* to eventually use ptrace for their sandboxing. < 1287270608 0 :Kater!~rooms@82.113.106.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287270610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1287270643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yeah. < 1287270649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1287270655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ptrace is/was used to implement User Mode Linux. < 1287270657 0 :Kater!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287270661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To trap all system calls. < 1287270663 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what, really!? < 1287270668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How else would it? < 1287270689 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, didn't it run a kernel in user space? < 1287270694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287270702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ran normal executables on that. < 1287270706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1287270715 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does virtualbox and such do it < 1287270730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It emulates a computer. < 1287270738 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am SHOCKED < 1287270748 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, actually since syscalls are done by jumping to a specific address in the program (the vdso) it would be easy to just change that one to do something else < 1287270762 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not very... reliable though < 1287270770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or via int 0x80. Or via a CPU instruction. < 1287270785 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, iirc that is what the actual vsdo does < 1287270787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1287270792 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit tricky < 1287270799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but it's also supported to go into the kernel directly. < 1287270805 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1287270805 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this was the norm before 2.6. < 1287270810 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need ptrace < 1287270814 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1287270818 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1287270830 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what the hell does ps aux look like with uml running? < 1287270843 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, will there be some weird init process at a non-standard number? < 1287270856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal in the UML. < 1287270866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I meant on host < 1287270867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outside, there's a single vmlinux process. :) < 1287270879 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so, it doesn't show the interior ones? < 1287270886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1287270889 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How often does anyone ever want to upload system files? < 1287270891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, also how does uml detect a syscall from the uml kernel to the real kernel < 1287270892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does its own scheduling! < 1287270914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, um, it happened that I attached /var/log/dmesg to bug reports < 1287270930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it's running in its kernel space, so it'll just *not* trap the syscall. < 1287270952 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err... what < 1287270960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, oh it is ptracing itself? < 1287270965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287270971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs as a single process. < 1287270978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I thought it would be two processes for that at least < 1287270983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1287270991 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy indeed < 1287271006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't do memory protection, though. < 1287271020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *think* in 2.6 they added a system call to allow them to manage that. < 1287271023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so any process can write to the memory of any other process inside the uml? < 1287271028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1287271033 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, *urgh* < 1287271051 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, what else can they do? < 1287271081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that means a user space program could just over write the ptrace handler and be out and free < 1287271086 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's running a *completely* unmodified userland in user space. < 1287271127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it could single step the code :P < 1287271155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrr at older game that wants access to HD in normal use < 1287271212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of Linux 2.6.0 it is integrated into the main kernel source tree. A method of running a separate kernel address space (skas) that does not require host kernel patching has been implemented; This improves performance and security over the old Traced Thread approach, in which processes running in the UML share the same address space from the host's point of view, which leads the memory inside the UML to not be protected by the Memory manageme < 1287271213 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt unit. Unlike the current UML using skas, buggy or malicious software inside a UML running on a non-skas host could be able to read the memory space of other UML processes or even the UML kernel memory." < 1287271217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, from wikipedia < 1287271229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, now I wonder what the magic syscall is < 1287271695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ever used colinux? < 1287271698 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather weird < 1287271730 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sigh. I am downloading the NetBSD 5.0.2 install ISO, via torrent. < 1287271886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's only 250MB, a torrent seems superfluous compared to finding a fast mirror :) < 1287272016 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: perhaps. partly i was curious. < 1287272046 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :torrents are also easier to continue when interrupted. < 1287272055 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have now posted the version 0.3 of Enhanced CWEB. Watch! < 1287272065 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs for cover
< 1287272074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to time it carefully to interrupt the download before it's done! :) < 1287272076 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has many new features and fixed features from old one < 1287272173 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ... i think we live in different worlds of network access. < 1287272197 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have this thing here called "AT&T" and it is truly amazingly bad. < 1287272233 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are expected to complain about version 0.3 of Enhanced CWEB now, so that I can fix it and also answer question, please. < 1287272238 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287272285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Now you are also expected to complain about "AT&T" < 1287272321 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: To be quite honest, I tried reading regular CWEB a few weeks ago, and could barely handle it. I don't think I'm ready for Enhanced CWEB. < 1287272359 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you should get the thing called Internet instead, it's the dog's bollocks supposedly < 1287272398 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I once downloaded ubuntu over http, turned out it was corrupted, some bytes had just gone missing. Used it as a starting point for redownloading it over bittorrent, about half of the thing (the first half) was usable < 1287272405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest was just off by a few bytes < 1287272411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where those few bytes had gone missing < 1287272427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: OK. Which parts could you not handle? And are there things you don't understand? Features you should want different from normal CWEB? etc? < 1287272446 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, since then I download any iso I can over bittorrent rather than httpo < 1287272448 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http* < 1287272500 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suppose bittorrent is good for large files, that is one of the things bittorrent is intended to do; which is, large files (such as videos, but it can be used for Linux distributions, too) < 1287272521 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone could build a wget-torrent that on-the-fly checks a http download from a fast mirror against a torrent file with hashes < 1287272522 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, well, large enough that a failed download hurts in this case < 1287272524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In addition, Ubuntu contains some videos) < 1287272538 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1287272544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, cool idea < 1287272752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I would like to know which parts you don't like, I am curious (and perhaps to make a survey, too) < 1287272873 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I guess in the most general sense, the way I look at literate programming is more like literate Haskell, than CWEB. < 1287272902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should look for my library card < 1287272905 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, it is English (or other natural language) text, mixed with code, but it is basically linear. < 1287272912 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some ebooks that my library has that I want to read < 1287272915 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CWEB is more like hypertext. < 1287272984 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the CWEB source I was looking at is in: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fist/ < 1287273003 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Ah. Yes, I know about literate Haskell. I prefer Enhanced CWEB, though (but that is just me) < 1287273007 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also maybe a bad example because the program is relatively small and easy to understand. < 1287273066 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes that zzo38 is going to make an almost completely secure, easy-to-use OS that only he will end up using
< 1287273077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION quickly scratches easy-to-use off
< 1287273090 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy for zzo38-usage >.> < 1287273126 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I also don't like some of the notation used in normal CWEB; Enhanced CWEB uses some different notations that are improvement in my opinion. < 1287273131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hopes that none of what he just said can be construed as offensive
< 1287273199 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It doesn't offensive to me (but many things are not offensive to me, since I support freedom of speech). Still, you might be correct about those statements. < 1287273225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know about if it is offensive to other people or not.) < 1287273292 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fully support the enhancement of all software, even if it's not something I'll ever use. < 1287273360 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the different notations in Enhanced CWEB are: normal equal sign for == and left arrow for = and up/down arrow for ++ and -- and optional line numbers in small fonts and using typograpical quotes for string delimiters, and so on... < 1287273366 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I agree with that too < 1287273393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: And it is also the reason to make fork of software.