< 1287360025 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287360080 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit < 1287360084 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BWAHAHAHAHA < 1287360085 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1287360132 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287360550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that means we are doomed. < 1287360585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, we always been < 1287360626 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287360660 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mounting NTFS filesystems read-write should be stable on Ibex? Do you think so, what is your opinion? < 1287360723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, "no" < 1287360740 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, on karmic or later with ntfs-3g "yes" < 1287360773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, but I wouldn't do it on ibex < 1287360775 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, "fuck" < 1287360786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, just upgrade ... duh < 1287360801 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DUH < 1287360840 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no risk of losing the files I'm trying to copy onto the NTFS filesystem by doing that < 1287360841 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, do you have a large enough usb drive to hold a disk image of lucid or such? And an external hdd to back the whole disk to? < 1287360842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so < 1287360846 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot usb stick < 1287360864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd if=/dev/sda1 /media/external-drive/whatever < 1287360866 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1287360870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for each partition < 1287360871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I has a purry lap kitty! < 1287360888 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so has me! aw she left < 1287360889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, once per partition since that is easier to loop-mount < 1287360916 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait < 1287360921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it is clear that you need to sacrifice the goat here < 1287360924 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can boot 10.10 live off the usb stick < 1287360938 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mount both partitions r/w under that boot < 1287360954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, I would still be careful and back the partition up first < 1287360956 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287361005 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's backed up. I made sure to back it up before restoring Windows. But I'd like to get the files onto DVD (I don't entirely trust external HDDs after my experience with my last one.) < 1287361006 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, and remember: do it using ntfs-3g, not using the in-kernel drivers < 1287361053 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how do I tell the difference? in fstab (in Ibex) it just says 'ntfs-3g' < 1287361096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, ibex has early ntfs-3g? < 1287361097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287361101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not trust it < 1287361140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, I mounted ntfs with ntfs-3g using the ntfs-3g command, never by fstab < 1287361185 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the programs I have written in Enhanced CWEB, it seems it should have bibliography section. < 1287361206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, use bibtex then? < 1287361232 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287361249 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume an ntfs-3g fstab entry is handled by the ntfs-3g command < 1287361273 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, same < 1287361284 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, I wouldn't trust such an old version as that of ibex though < 1287361289 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, trying-this time < 1287361294 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: trying-this time! < 1287361566 0 :catseye!~ubuntu@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287361574 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llo llo < 1287361641 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, too easy. < 1287361654 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both drives are just available from the 'Places' menu. sweet. < 1287361770 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BibTeX is one possibility. Or perhaps I can just write a TeX macro for bibliography, instead. < 1287361795 0 :SgeoN1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1287361943 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287361945 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1287362377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I GOT ACTUAL 24P OUT OF THIS < 1287362442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filmdint followed by phase=U. filmdint is a hybrid inverse teleciner and deinterlacer, and phase=U attempts to autodetect and correct interlacing that's at the wrong phase. < 1287362671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *only* problem? Some of the frames are deinterlacer output, because for no good reason, some frames appear to only possess the bottom portions of the source 24p frame. < 1287362723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, running phase=U before as well fixes some of *that*. < 1287362753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM VICTORIOUS < 1287362781 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to install LyX < 1287362801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what's your opinion of LyX? < 1287362820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better-than-source encode FTW. < 1287362900 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I have not used it, but from what I see, I would prefer typing TeX codes in a text editor instead, including macros and category codes and all of that other stuff. < 1287362925 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Category codes is a feature of TeX which I use often.) < 1287362994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose LyX is OK if you want to use LaTeX, though. But I don't use LaTeX. < 1287363043 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because I think Plain TeX is superior) < 1287364362 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287364470 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287364491 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the millennium+10, and there is no more time for Mandelbrot < 1287364527 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the future is _so_ last decade < 1287365103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why 25i video doesn't use 2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:2:3 pulldown for 24p display < 1287365231 0 :wareya_!~wareya@74.70.142.220 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287365414 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287365803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Don't accept defaults just because they sound vaguely reasonable < 1287365820 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asking me for each package whether or not to install it is NOT reasonable < 1287365835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unchecks something or other < 1287366063 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think we can safely assume NetBSD will not be happening tonight. < 1287366134 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1287366217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bac < 1287366219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*back < 1287366222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: aww. why? :( < 1287366244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what are you installing? < 1287366266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LyX, which needed to install MikTeX < 1287366284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: installing all latex packages is a good idea < 1287366292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i just realised, i'm on at the same time every day < 1287366299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i wake up on weekends the same time i get back from school < 1287366320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have a sleep disorder. < 1287366372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i deem it "teenagerism" < 1287366375 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have a sleeping disorder too. < 1287366387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The great thing is, I can't medicate it legally! < 1287366388 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote hey i just realised, i'm on at the same time every day You may have a sleep disorder. < 1287366397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Melatonin is a prescription-only drug over here. < 1287366398 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, I'm just not sleeping properly, it's not a disorder < 1287366405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1287366412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And convincing a GP to prescribe melatonin... hahahhahahahahahaha never. happening. < 1287366419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, hackego isn't here < 1287366504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should probably make some effort to do some homwork < 1287366531 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes an effort to sleep < 1287366689 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1287366713 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slackego! < 1287366732 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, depends on how much longer it takes to copy, burn, etc. < 1287366767 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to implement a generic tactical game engine in Haskell < 1287366878 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikTeX isn't LaTeX? < 1287366900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: in the type system! < 1287366905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs away < 1287366923 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab-dab < 1287366931 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ofc < 1287366946 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, it leads to a precise definition of a tactical game < 1287367189 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is Computer Modern an acceptable font to you? < 1287367212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for what? < 1287367215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your question is beyond vague < 1287367227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coppro: in the type system! < 1287367232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a typechecker. < 1287367232 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To look at/use/whatever < 1287367233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the type system! < 1287367236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for *what*? < 1287367239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what document? < 1287367258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...good point < 1287367275 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it visually pleasing with Lorem Ipsum? < 1287367286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the AI Emancipation Proclamation < 1287367304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I refuse to answer typography questions about Lorem Ipsum... < 1287367434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ipso Facto < 1287367441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now with recycling < 1287367569 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that Yap is a DVI viewer? < 1287367618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://fbpanel.sourceforge.net/index.html < 1287367631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1287367637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yet Another Previewer" < 1287367916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Somehow setting the resolution with xrandr and rebooting... works. < 1287367931 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to redo the LyX tutorial < 1287367939 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been years since I've touched LyX < 1287367981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ? < 1287367987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That.. And. Why? < 1287367993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't even know. < 1287367998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It... it remembers. < 1287368000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it remember? < 1287368002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW < 1287368044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, fbpanel looks like a nice dependency-free panel. < 1287368352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phase,filmdint,phase,telecine,phase,pullup,softskip < 1287368378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't *believe* that is the fucking chain I need to put it through to inverse telecine it without noticable artifacting. < 1287368472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: LeanDE (Kitten's totally approverated desktop environment) as it is right now: lwm (perhaps a forked, slightly-enhanced version), fbpanel, Midori, ? < 1287368483 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I can stop stopping the encode with a better idea. Because this is actually perfect. < 1287368500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might tweak fbpanel a bit so that the current window is actually de-pressed. < 1287368501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. < 1287368565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ...fbpanel tries to use slock by default :D < 1287368570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suckless' locking program. < 1287368586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY APPROVE < 1287368644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Heh, LXDE's lxpanel is a fork of fbpanel. < 1287368649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except made to be more RUBBISH LXDE CRAP < 1287368667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God dammit. It's mixed telecine and interlaced. Because it hates me. HATES HATE HATES. < 1287368677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: More better ideas, eh? < 1287368692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, just hatred. < 1287368752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh lawl, fbpanel opens applications you click as child processes. < 1287368756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Totally needs some patching. < 1287368760 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck it. What's the best deinterlacing filter for animation? < 1287368875 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not telecining in the first place X-P < 1287368906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You should totally install lwm and admire the awesomely-designed WM. < 1287368916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott H. represent < 1287368918 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i now have a new sound test for bytepusher which doesn't have an irritating female robot voice < 1287368927 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to get some gfx up < 1287368986 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linear blend appears to look best for animation. < 1287368987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TO ENCODING < 1287369006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And *still* needing the phase filter. < 1287369008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mmm. < 1287369043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also features a Sufficiently Snarky Developer: < 1287369049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lwm is a window manager for X that tries to keep out of your face. There are no icons, no button bars, no icon docks, no root menus, no nothing: if you want all that, then other programs can provide it. There's no configurability either: if you want that, you want a different window manager; one that helps your operating system in its evil conquest of your disc space and its annexation of your physical memory." < 1287369056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: It has a few X resources to configure it.) < 1287369062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye. < 1287369063 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, it's telecined. And then edited. And post processed. And then it has 30i cell-shaded 3D overlayed. < 1287369067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Connection reset by peer review < 1287369076 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And for kicks, it's got the wrong interlacing. < 1287369127 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So presumably this is something from one source used in the background of a different thing? < 1287369166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's just the only way I can imagine it being that broken :P < 1287369188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's just Invader Zim, off of DVD. < 1287369197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just *put it to disc like that*. < 1287369216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1287369263 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The screwed up interlacing absolutely astonishes me, though. I can't believe they managed to screw up the field order. < 1287369283 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, seriously? That's ... pretty broken. < 1287369317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The mencoder phase filter was designed to fix that. < 1287369372 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... FOR PAL, BECAUSE THATS THE ONLY PLACE THAT HAPPENS NORMALLY. < 1287369383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they use the opposite field order from NTSC) < 1287369483 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1287369541 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phase filter documentation doesn't MENTION it only working in pal :P < 1287370126 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmmaybe Mmmmmaverick can burn an ISO to DVD for mmmmme...? < 1287370156 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying < 1287370242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, it's *meant* for PAL. < 1287370277 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going! < 1287370279 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's flexible. < 1287370345 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i should probably consider modifying it to play part of a rendering of cd_orbit.mod < 1287370817 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tworked! I have a NetBSD 5.0.2 install DVD. Quite glad I did not purchase the external DVD burner; it was just some problem in intrepid. < 1287371001 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'awww. ATSC allows for h264, but most ATSC TVs can't display it, so nobody broadcasts in it. < 1287371021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(h264 requires about half the bitrate for the same quality as MPEG2...) < 1287371414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also crazy-expensive to {en,de}code. < 1287371451 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's CRAZY-expensive to encode. It's merely slightly more expensive to decode than what people are willing to put into TVs. < 1287371554 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- < 1287371565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Behold my minus sign. < 1287371595 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would VP8 or theora be expensive to decode? < 1287371601 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda wondering < 1287371631 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again, tv manufacturers and broadcasters can probably pay for patent royalties < 1287371653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Theora is worse than it ought to be, VP8 is pretty OK, both are more expensive than MPEG2 or MPEG4, and less than H.264 (it doesn't take much to be less than H.264) < 1287371682 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i quite like theora < 1287371750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: VP8 is actually only *slightly* less expensive than H.264. < 1287371762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because it's fundamentally H.264 without the patent violating bits. < 1287371779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, as far as is known) < 1287371782 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is it? That's ... weird, I thought it was totally unrelated. < 1287371806 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. ffmpeg's VP8 encoder is a hack of its h264 encoder. < 1287371807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1287371841 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1287371855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it's only expensive to decode in software. With a hardware decoder, it's not at all difficult. < 1287371867 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're fucking putting h.264 decoders in *phones* these days, man.) < 1287372116 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is failing to find any corroborating evidence of this comparison. < 1287372297 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pics.spaceghetto.st/images/k9dnf.jpg sfw < 1287372415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My fucking cell phone decodes h.264. < 1287372444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm talking about corroborating evidence of the H.264-to-VP8 similarity. < 1287372552 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to not caring :P < 1287372611 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who works of ffmpeg < 1287372614 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*on < 1287372634 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was suggesting that they rename the fastest test profile from 'veryfast' to 'plaid' < 1287372653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1287372658 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've gone to plaid! < 1287372659 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh. < 1287372661 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm trying to figure out bits of category theory and bits of domain theory so I can understand what denotational arrows would be. I think I'm inching closer... < 1287372677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My phone decodes H.264 too :P < 1287372691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably in hardware) < 1287372762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/archives/377 < 1287372817 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, just searching for "H.264" makes it pretty clear :P < 1287372829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not that it's "based on" H.264 per se, it just rips off almost every aspect of it. < 1287372834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"VP8 is simply way too similar to H.264: a pithy, if slightly inaccurate, description of VP8 would be “H.264 Baseline Profile with a better entropy coder”." < 1287372840 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, brasero has spent twenty minutes "Creating image checksum" for a 650M image. I think it's broken. < 1287372886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a slightly tangential note, it's a bit upsetting what happened to VC-1. < 1287372901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft tried to make a patent-free video codec. < 1287372915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand patent trolls found some patents and set up a licensing group. < 1287372965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing that happens whenever anybody tries to make anything patent-free. < 1287372988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when you go to great pains to make it unique or use old techniques. < 1287372995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Vorbis and Theora, respectively) < 1287372996 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :patent trolls are the sweetest kind of troll < 1287373058 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. Theora's not *entirely* without patents. It just has a perpetual license granted to all of humanity for those patents... < 1287373073 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1287373147 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trick for bytepusher programmers: if you're doing just audio and no graphics, set the framebuffer to point to code where stuff is happening or something < 1287373177 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's not a dumb idea to overlap the video and audio buffers < 1287373299 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... not always what i want to see when listening to audio, but, point taken < 1287373547 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. MP3 should be patent-free soon. Awesome. < 1287373629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's always ambiguous, it's *likely* that it'll be patent free by December 2012. < 1287373668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise for MP1 and MP2. < 1287373698 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pubacc.wilcox-tech.com/~greaser/stuff/bytepusher/cd_orbit.BytePusher.gz < 1287373704 0 :bsmntbombdood!~gavin@97-118-210-144.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287373709 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sample not mine < 1287373844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There should be a video format that's actually just a bytecode format. < 1287373857 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You include both the video and the code to decode and play it. < 1287373887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be wonderful for certain things. < 1287373903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, recordings from an emulator. < 1287373916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "video" consists of the emulation for the video & sound chips and their inputs. < 1287373920 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector video. < 1287373927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vector video, yes. < 1287373940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a vector arcade game. :P < 1287373952 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want conventional video, you stick a $YOUR_FAVORITE_CODEC decoder in there and you're done. < 1287374246 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1287374621 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287374758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I am truly, 100% satisified with how this encode is going. < 1287374770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT TOOK ALL FUCKING DAY just to figure out how to make it not suck. < 1287374910 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1287374981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, malicious videos1 < 1287374985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess not < 1287375009 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, actually. How much memory can the language request? < 1287375040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Way to get back your malicious videos through our good friend DoS :P < 1287375089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I'd imagine "as much as it can take before the video player comes to cockpunch the asshat that made the video." < 1287375138 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, if I knew 100% more about video encoding but also knew what I do about PL, I'd totally make the procedural video codec. < 1287375146 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god it's PVC agaaaaaaaaaaain < 1287375169 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again? < 1287375185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PVC got mentioned as a coincidental initialism a couple days ago :P < 1287375242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Probably the hardest thing about video encoding is realising that the patent trolls have made it nearly impossible to do anything in the field. < 1287375272 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287375313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the whole point of PlasticVideo :P < 1287375328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternately, flee the country. < 1287375344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PlasticVideo? < 1287375360 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Procedural Video Codec -> PVC -> PlasticVideo < 1287375371 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow, I doubt that I'm interested in learning about how plastic gets.... Oh! < 1287375622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's not really a codec at all, is it :P < 1287375632 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it is ... sort of. < 1287375645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is to codecs as Fythe is to languages. < 1287375659 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FyThE < 1287375676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that sort of capitalization horrible everywhere else, but acceptable for TeX and LaTeX? < 1287375691 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Knuth is special < 1287375764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KnUtH < 1287375777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoNaLd KnUtH < 1287375784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean KNuTH. Vowels are lower-case. < 1287376414 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-102-46-242.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287376437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, huh. MP2 is actually patent free. < 1287376460 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the audio codec? < 1287376465 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1287376476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not by design, just coincidence. < 1287376566 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: maybe, if you have a notion of reduction in your language, you can have one object per term in the language, and morphisms to all the terms it would reduce to. < 1287376606 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one morphism for each term it could reduce to. < 1287376611 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is rather simplistic < 1287376646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't MP2 audio kinda ... garbage? < 1287376672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. It's actually in common use in broadcasting still. < 1287376719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite so. < 1287376765 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is most comparable to AAC, Vorbis, or other such modern codecs, starting at about 128 kbit/s. < 1287376785 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 took off because it has better performance at lower bit rates. < 1287376909 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(MP2 was designed to have very high quality sound at 192 kbit/s and transparency at 256 kbit/s with the reference encoder, MP3 was designed to have *acceptable* performance at 128 kbit/s. Aaand then encoders improved.) < 1287376978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and MP3 is actually incapable of transparency. Literally incapable of it. < 1287377026 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders vaguely what it means for audio to be transparent. < 1287377049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Perceptually identical to the uncompressed source. < 1287377064 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err ... that seems ... really difficult to define. < 1287377069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB testing. < 1287377087 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But different people have different sensitivities. < 1287377088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 always has artifacting, it's just a matter of how annoying it is. < 1287377105 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as JPEG < 1287377108 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION twitches < 1287377208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: It's actually possible to have lossless JPEG, I *think*. < 1287377240 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a /modification/ of JPEG to be lossless. < 1287377288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, the original JPEG standard defines a lossless scheme. < 1287377315 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, which is totally unrelated to the non-lossless one and isn't implemented by anyone :P < 1287377323 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transparency? < 1287377328 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287377329 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1287377370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm pretty sure ordinary JPEG can be made lossless-modulo-rounding-errors just by setting the quantisation matrix right. < 1287377375 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can it be impossible for something to have transparency? Is it always known that artifacts will be of a certain size? < 1287377402 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but if your arrows take programs (representations) to their meanings (denotations), those are really two different kinds of object, so how is that a category, unless you do some sleight-of-hand? that's where I'm stuck at atm < 1287377402 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at least of a certain size < 1287377409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, this is the case for MP3. The best it can have is not having very bad artifacting on certain sources. < 1287377483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe make it a functor and programs and meanings different categories < 1287377515 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But "denotational functor" just doesn't have the same ring to it! oh well. < 1287377550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but the arrows could be the arrows in the meaning/denotation category < 1287377587 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, er, ok... i suppose they could... < 1287377602 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to visualize what those would mean < 1287377646 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compositionof meanings, i suppose < 1287377672 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i need to appreciate more about functors for this to work itself out in my head now < 1287378094 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287378892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My God. I'm getting transparency at 450kbps. < 1287378927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE X264! < 1287378947 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287379171 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your input is cell-shaded, yes? < 1287379306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Still quite impressive. < 1287379313 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cell-shaded, animated on cells, etc. < 1287379334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think that'd be easy to compress. < 1287379346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is, most encoders fail horribly at this. < 1287379349 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that hard borders are the WORST things to compress. < 1287379361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1287379383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is quite nice about it, but hard borders require a lot of pain. < 1287379387 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why I'm finding 450kbps semi-dubious, since I usually go for 1200 :P < 1287379410 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm telling x264 to go for a target quality instead of a bitrate. < 1287379440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it popped out a 450kbps average for this video. And it looks wonderful. < 1287379444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1287379479 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the native format? < 1287379489 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/native/source/ < 1287379491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPEG2 complying to DVD specs. < 1287379492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming video has to be stored as something < 1287379518 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1287379526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which needed fiddling to come out well. < 1287379535 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would PlasticVideo handle Worms replay files? Watching them requires having the game :( < 1287379560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be a bit massive even to include a stripped down copy of the game with each file < 1287379584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You would have to convert them to some layers-and-sprites format. < 1287379610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be varying between 450 and 650 kbps average for these episodes. < 1287379700 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depending on the amount of cell-shaded 3D stuff in the episode, it seems. < 1287379756 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How does one make x264 do constant-quality? :P < 1287379780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: crf option. < 1287379800 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, there 'tis. < 1287379803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What crf do you use? < 1287379828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The default, which is 23.0. < 1287379842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate Chrome's hatred of Reddit < 1287379848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Just don't pass a bitrate option. < 1287379853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1287379866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently encoding with -x264encopts tune=animation:preset=slow < 1287379892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The preset & tune options are by far my favorite recent feature. < 1287379937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION triest to remember why he added bitrate= to his script in the first place... < 1287379964 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The crf rate control thing is somewhat recent, I think. < 1287379993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know my mencoder.conf was written some 3 years ago according to what was recommended practice *then*... < 1287380029 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1287380030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I only changed it today because 2-pass encoding stopped working with my settings. < 1287380049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I found out that I can completely omit 2-pass encoding now. :D < 1287380286 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? Doesn't 2-pass still do better even with constant-quality? (Better bitrate at the same quality) < 1287380357 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2-pass is mutually incompatible with that. < 1287380373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Just incompatible. < 1287380374 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. < 1287380421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 2-pass does is try and get better quality from the video while meeting the *precise* bitrate you asked for. < 1287380449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes it both look better while shooting for a specific bitrate and makes you actually *get* the bitrate you asked for. < 1287380497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really handy if you want to try and make the video fit onto, say, a Bluray disc, sucky if you just want it to look good and don't care about file size consistency. < 1287380621 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1287381082 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Codu frozen upgrading GHC? :P < 1287381272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I make an idiot out of myself, or is does my attempted statistics reference make sense? < 1287381273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=5695862 < 1287381315 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/or/xor/ < 1287381328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/xor/fuck you/ < 1287381851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what I love? Things that segfault unless you run them under gdb. < 1287381852 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287382567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. There is one noticable artifact here. I can see artifacts from the 4:2:0 chroma subsampling. < 1287382638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, that's in the source. Can't do anything about that. < 1287382686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artifacts on DVDs = fail. < 1287382728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Artifacts from the chroma subsampling are actually pretty impossible to avoid if the original video is just right. < 1287382749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: animated) < 1287382768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's happening long before any information is actually thrown away by the codec. < 1287382792 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chroma subsampling? < 1287382822 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The chrominance on many digital video signals is stored at a lower resolution than the luminance. < 1287382846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chrominance? Anything like hue? < 1287382848 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :36/8 and 42/8 allocated to APNIC. 7 /8s to allocate (+5 to distribute) remain. < 1287382853 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287382853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the color information. < 1287382881 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luminance is how dark/bright it is? < 1287382884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1287382910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason that's done is that the human eye is more sensitive to luminance than to chrominance. < 1287382916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notebook's yelling at me < 1287382924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was first done in NTSC... < 1287383013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns off compy < 1287383017 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nightynight < 1287383069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it's somewhat noticable on animation because the hard edges between regions can sometimes result in showing an off color on those edges. < 1287383134 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287383530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. It is possible to donate to reduce the US national debt. < 1287383586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just write a check to: Attn Dept G / Bureau of the Public Debt / P.O. Box 2188 / Parkersburg, WV 26106-2188. (source: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/resources/faq/faq_publicdebt.htm#DebtFinance) < 1287383623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1287383624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps Republicans should know about that. < 1287383624 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287383642 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287383985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When "drop in a bucket" meets "single molecule of water on Jupiter" < 1287384255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but if they're poorer they'll have less influence on politics. < 1287384255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287384574 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My crf=23 gave me 1700kbps :P < 1287384579 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher than the 1200 I specified. < 1287384600 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I figured you might want me to inform you that 1700 is in fact greater than 1200) < 1287384663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The resulting bitrate is quite dependent on the source quality. :) < 1287384673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, the source. < 1287384680 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, were you doing that with preset=slow? < 1287384879 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1287384882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just no options at all :P < 1287384899 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the source is really low-quality, it's a video from my PowerShot X-P < 1287384944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Setting it to preset=slow should improve the quality/bitrate ratio. < 1287385202 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287385362 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1287385545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Codu's hard disk access got super-slow. < 1287385553 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's why all the blehness. < 1287385995 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1287386982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287387391 0 :Gregor!~gregor@65.183.185.80 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287387414 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, Codu is definitely self-destructing X-D < 1287387484 0 :Gregor`!~Gregor@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287387548 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HI ME! < 1287388237 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287388242 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287388799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1287388800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1287389341 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1287390323 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287390937 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287393451 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287393582 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287393797 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287395422 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287396035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is going on on http://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher? < 1287396046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally you get a page submitted to Wikipedia which is more like an advert or press release < 1287396050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's happened there, but ontopic < 1287396067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm inclined to just leave it, it's fun to have the page around and it is actually useful) < 1287396347 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it does kinda look like that < 1287396372 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw it's quite easy to make a compliant VM for < 1287396379 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, *scarily* easy < 1287396583 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yeah it needs a subleq OISC VM < 1287396636 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems doable, have a sub table and a carry table < 1287396663 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the carry table having $00 on no carry and $FF on carry < 1287396667 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two 64KB tables < 1287397328 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287397656 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Welcome honored guest. I got the key you want! would you like onderves. of Yourself < 1287401031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, amusing changelog entry (Ubuntu bumping the version of Wine): "Many more applications work, especially those from companies named after particularly cold weather events" < 1287401971 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287402102 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287402121 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287404502 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287404641 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287404954 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1287404959 0 :cheater!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does that mean? < 1287406403 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287406523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoît Mandelbrot | (logs: http://is.gd/g4uID) < 1287406732 0 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287406791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I think Codu's hard disk access got super-slow. < 1287406792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1287407140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Huh. It is possible to donate to reduce the US national debt. < 1287407220 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall a few years ago there was some relatively rich guy in norway who had tried to pay extra taxes. he wasn't allowed to. < 1287407929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: what does that mean? < 1287407960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i second that question. < 1287408041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes he hasn't seen google screw up his browser back history again in a while < 1287408418 0 :myndzi!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287408611 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1287409219 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287409242 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287410285 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287410603 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/session JOIN :#esoteric < 1287410605 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287410605 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287410672 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Reboot < 1287411187 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1287411197 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287412402 0 :Harpyon!~Harpyon@ti0031a380-0423.bb.online.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287412459 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1287413163 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287413164 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287413164 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287413164 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287413767 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-94-145-105.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287414782 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@137.125.188.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287414952 0 :choochter!~choochter@nat/ibm/x-gdojdbmgzbgpwrxy JOIN :#esoteric < 1287415384 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287415712 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287416030 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287416035 0 :Gregor`!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gregor < 1287416049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey now, the disk seems to have restored itself! < 1287416110 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1287416110 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287416111 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1287416125 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287416279 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, I forgot conv=fdatasync X-P < 1287416283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287416293 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shockingly, the in-memory disk cache is fast. < 1287416609 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287417014 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1287417014 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287417015 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1287417248 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-242.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287417715 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1287418018 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1287418054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :RIP Benoît Mandelbrot (logs: http://is.gd/g4uID) < 1287418057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic spacing entirely deliberate < 1287418084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:00:35 wtf is going on on http://esolangs.org/wiki/BytePusher? < 1287418084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:00:46 occasionally you get a page submitted to Wikipedia which is more like an advert or press release < 1287418084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:00:50 I think that's happened there, but ontopic < 1287418084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01:07 (I'm inclined to just leave it, it's fun to have the page around and it is actually useful) < 1287418089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just evolved around one editor, pretty much < 1287418151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlike Wikipedia, that's OK on esolangs :P < 1287418158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1287418162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bytepusher is actually fun < 1287418190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, it doesn't seem all that esoteric X-P < 1287418200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Uhh, it's an OISC. < 1287418215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In fact, it's just MOV + JMP (unconditional). < 1287418225 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read more before saying things. < 1287418228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... pretty esoteric OISC there. < 1287418232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No conditionals in the actual instruction. < 1287418260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Although I have to say that my ripoff is TOTALLY more awesome. < 1287418266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I want to base it on a one-operand OISC.) < 1287418272 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The HTTP protocol is connectionless and stateless" < 1287418273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because one-operand OISCs are awesome. < 1287418282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially as program can just be written as lists of addresses. < 1287418290 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm you are interested in formal proving and such right? I have a question about such a software that I heard about < 1287418300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, if it is any good at all) < 1287418308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Name it. < 1287418336 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, frama-c, looked in aptitude, seems to use coq internally, used to prove stuff about C code < 1287418353 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basically I wonder if it is worth investigating it any further < 1287418372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about it, but it has a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frama-C that seems to imply it is great. < 1287418383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it uses Coq or others internally, i tseems < 1287418385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it seems < 1287418388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also their website is cool: http://frama-c.com/ < 1287418395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alan kay quote and odd juxtaposition of portrait with code < 1287418407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'd say definitely worth investigating further. < 1287418412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heh, both ocaml and coq are pulled in when I select it in aptitude. < 1287418415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, thanks < 1287418426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however i know nothing of the practical software provers because they're for grubby bad languages that you can't prove anything about really ;) < 1287418445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should write your software in Coq, prove things about it in Coq, and then extract it to O'Caml! < 1287418451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OCaml < 1287418460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just hope it isn't yet another splint (good in theory, awful in practise) < 1287418473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it looks simultaneously more practical and more theoretical. < 1287418491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicing: this plugin enables to slice a program (program slicing). It enables to generate a smaller new C program which preserves some given properties[2]. < 1287418495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^ if that actually works, so cool. < 1287418498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, a quick tests seems to indicates it treat any doxygen comments as parse errors < 1287418501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is a big difference between GET and POST" < 1287418508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why are you quoting this? < 1287418509 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One is secure-er" < 1287418518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: securer is a word < 1287418524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that lecturer sounds like a moron < 1287418525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk out < 1287418527 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit of a pain, but nothing you can't work around < 1287418529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact they are a moron < 1287418538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying one is more secure than the other < 1287418539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: walk out < 1287418544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well they tend to be a bit anal. < 1287418547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these tools < 1287418566 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, actually, in a sense, since having, say, a session ID in a URL is a bad idea... < 1287418569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: probably it only recognises /* with a spaec after it < 1287418570 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yeah, I just have to strip those /*@{*/ comments that are used to group stuff in doxygen out < 1287418578 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, since that is what it is erroring on < 1287418583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's still a terrible way to introduce them and gives a bad first impression and bullshit and-- walk out < 1287418590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you wasting your time? < 1287418593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used for stuff like documenting a group of defines or whatever < 1287418601 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I need this class for this track < 1287418616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: and? < 1287418619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean you have to listen to idiocy < 1287418621 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's glossing over it quickly, and wants to get to CGI < 1287418621 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, cookies < 1287418627 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is where you put session ids < 1287418637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, true < 1287418643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must ... resist ... urge ... to make ... JavaScript+Canvas ... BytePusher ... < 1287418653 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BytePusher? < 1287418656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're not going to learn anything, so just leave. < 1287418660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do something more productive. < 1287418664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least interesting < 1287418687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NONONO implement mine, it's based on a one-operand OISC you see. < 1287418690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also more fun. < 1287418699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, your basic issue is that you are exploring the coding phase space breadth-first, not depth-first < 1287418707 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for elliott really < 1287418716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was beyond meaningless. < 1287418721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wasn't. < 1287418728 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is totally meaningful and applicable. < 1287418737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, okay, it was squarely in meaningless. < 1287418739 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT I CAN'T STOP *sobs* < 1287418761 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... it is a bit hard to express the idea to elliott it seems < 1287418766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I AM NOT IN DENIAL SHUT UP < 1287418772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you ever realised that Javascript sucks? < 1287418773 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being in here is interesting enough < 1287418775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :D < 1287418777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Gregor jumps off a building] < 1287418785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He realised that his life has no meaning. < 1287418788 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: JavaScript is AWESOME. -ly terrible. -ly awesome. < 1287418796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: -ly bad. < 1287418828 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, java or javascript, which is worst in your opinion < 1287418846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I dearly hope I never have to answer that question. < 1287418868 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript isn't that bad. It has anonymous functions. < 1287418871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least Eich stuck as much of Scheme into JavaScript as he could. < 1287418875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the other hand, < 1287418878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well obviously both are quite bad. < 1287418878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java isn't FUCKING INSANE HOLY SHIT. < 1287418890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java is just bad. You know, you can deal with that. < 1287418897 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 JavaScript < 1287418905 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript's WORSE in elliott's opinion? < 1287418910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is just on drugs. Permanently. Which is why he loves JavaScript. < 1287418919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Spoken like somebody who has never seen JavaScript's object model. or scoping < 1287418923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or arithmetic shit < 1287418938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1287418938 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only drugs I'm on are JAVASCRIPT! Which is admittedly a pretty potent drug. < 1287418939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything really < 1287418954 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done stuff with YouOS before! < 1287418962 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I say that as a person who's written nomath.js :P < 1287418966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once raped a camel! < 1287418977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hey! I was that camel! < 1287418977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Moral: Don't tell people about the terrible things you've done, Sgeo. < 1287418991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: YOU WERE ASKING FOR IT < 1287419003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You were singing "My Humps" < 1287419008 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw didn't you brag about 800 kB/s down recently? < 1287419013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No. < 1287419016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that at least I got it. < 1287419019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287419020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287419025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then mocked myself with . < 1287419050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, today I got updates at about 6 MB/s. Since this was over 802.11g that is pretty good < 1287419056 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches his wonderful unreliable 100KB/s < 1287419079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MiB? < 1287419092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, whatever the unit aptitude reports :P < 1287419097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: MiB. < 1287419100 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287419113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fuck you, you unholy piece of shit, with your BANDWIDTH < 1287419117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is wasted on Sweden :| < 1287419124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You probably contracted out to Satan < 1287419128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for the bandwidth. < 1287419132 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sadly that only happens at university when you are there very early or very late. Otherwise the wlan is just slow. < 1287419142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just camp out there < 1287419157 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287419159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, because I can't even get any connection that lasts more than a few seconds around noon? < 1287419182 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and even then it is 1 MB/s usually < 1287419183 0 :EgoBot!~EgoBot@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287419187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean overnight < 1287419205 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well. I don't think is allowed, also no beds < 1287419217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1287419219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs beds < 1287419223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you have bandwidth < 1287419230 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1287419231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287419234 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of university disallows being there at night ... < 1287419243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, "sleeping there at night" < 1287419252 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People sleep in LWSN during the day :P < 1287419308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does localtime know whether or not it's in scalar context?! < 1287419327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uhh, everything can do stuff like that IIRC < 1287419332 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway their wlan is only good in some spots. I mean, I sat at more or less the optimum place when I got 6 MiB/s < 1287419344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do I make my own function that does stuff like that? < 1287419350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1287419356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't care one bit. < 1287419359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear path to antenna, but not to close to it < 1287419376 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287419378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Gah, I am determined to run random binary files in putebysh to find one that does stuff. < 1287419388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOA < 1287419392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pycon_2010_tutorial.pdf is TRIPPY < 1287419395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphics AND sound < 1287419454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As is cweb.zip < 1287419467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prods frama-c. Interesting, but so far nothing useful out of it. And half the options seem to be cryptic and well, there might be documentation for them somewhere, but I have no clue where that somewhere is < 1287419476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksplice-uptrack.deb flashes screen yellow but then nothing < 1287419500 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why should it flash screen < 1287419507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: in bytepusher < 1287419520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1287419524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: pldi275-richards.pdf does nothing interesting; please rectify this < 1287419528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: tl;dr running random executables < 1287419535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287419555 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I was trying to think of how bytepusher (esolang iirc) was related to ksplice < 1287419562 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo BLAR < 1287419563 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLAR < 1287419572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's an OISC-based computer < 1287419581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the yellow flash thing *may* be part of the implementation < 1287419583 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, now port linux to it, then ksplice < 1287419584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey /dev/urandom works as a program < 1287419592 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287419594 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is that surprising? < 1287419595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it takes a while to get enough data to do something < 1287419597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i mean < 1287419599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287419603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it puts random shit on the screen and buzzes :) < 1287419605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, /dev/urandom is quite fast. < 1287419613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the buzzing is in ta fixed memory location though i guess that's not too surprising < 1287419615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is /dev/random that is slow < 1287419616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but, like, does things < 1287419648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a < 1287419650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ta < 1287419685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian-testing-i386-netinst.iso is the shit < 1287419690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it just sits there < 1287419749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo ./putebysh /dev/mem < 1287419758 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287419773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I hope you run a recent kernel < 1287419781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uh, ubuntu-recent. < 1287419782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, does it modify the file? < 1287419784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1287419788 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1287419795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a moron < 1287419804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't even read the source so maybe it edits it, but i doubt it :P < 1287419826 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I suspect you won't crash then. The program will get an error trying to read anything except a few pages such as BIOS stuff and PCI config space < 1287419844 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but hm, some of that could be sensitive to incorrect reads < 1287419846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if reading a file could crash your system i'd be worried. < 1287419879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNIX permissions are a WTF < 1287419887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you're a WTF. < 1287419890 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ITYM "if reading memory mapped registers that are only supposed to be written could fuck up said hardware, I wouldn't be surprised at all" < 1287419900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't have +x access on a directory, you can't read ANY files in that directory? < 1287419907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then they shouldn't be exposed as a file :p < 1287419913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even given a known name? < 1287419916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, /dev/mem is your memory < 1287419917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that an Apache thing? < 1287419923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an apache thing. < 1287419925 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, IMO that file shouldn't exist < 1287419930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1287419940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bet plan 9 gets it right >:D < 1287419954 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there should be some other way for graphics drivers and such to safely map in the video memory, but that would be it < 1287419972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for reading PCI config space, the kernel should expose an API for that < 1287419998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the bios stuff. It would make dosemu and such useless < 1287420209 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287420326 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am beginning to hate everyone in this class < 1287420391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# xlogout - logs user out of its X session < 1287420394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Linux specific since uses /proc < 1287420401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :least reassuring start to a broken shell script ever < 1287420464 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've never mastered CGI.pm... I'd rather do the HTML _in_ HTML" < 1287420480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: CGI.pm has a bunch of functions to generate HTML markup < 1287420481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their use is questionable. < 1287420486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the way stated is stupid. < 1287420489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1287420491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1287420526 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: CGI.pm is effectively HTML coded in sexps rather than SGML < 1287420543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, except the sexps are insane. < 1287420546 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1287420555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So she wasn't being totally batshit insane < 1287420666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, why sexps? I mean if it was lisp that would have been a reasonable choice of representation < 1287420672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a perl program, err < 1287420694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: please explain to Vorpal... < 1287420698 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not syntactically sexps < 1287420701 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, effectively sexps < 1287420705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, *ouch* < 1287420746 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like this: html(head(title("The Hello World Web Page")).body(p("Hello, world!"))) < 1287420763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, any opinions on eiffel (the programming language)? < 1287420791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch? it's just html without < 1287420793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried Eiffel once < 1287420793 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, sexps with first parameter before the parenthesis? :D < 1287420806 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's still a sexp, effectively < 1287420807 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287420814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bertrand meyer is excellent. eiffel is basically his perfect design. but- < 1287420814 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why the actual syntax matters < 1287420815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not parameter, element) < 1287420816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if i'd use it < 1287420817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-- < 1287420824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not? < 1287420827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, true < 1287420836 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is the least important part of a programming language < 1287420838 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than Python < 1287420839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i refuse to answer such an open-ended, useless question < 1287420849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1287420854 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what about haskell then (if you are referring to the indention stuff) < 1287420859 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I knew that was going to be `addquoted < 1287420869 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay... < 1287420882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ask a better question, get a better answer < 1287420885 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was more a reference to flamewars about Python indentation-sensitivity than actual language design < 1287420895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgooooo < 1287420896 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doesn't inspire those levels of fury on both sides < 1287420927 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python's indentation sensitivity got me in a good habit of being anal about indentation < 1287420956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, good point < 1287420977 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, I once elected to leave a if(1) in rather than remove it and closing brace and unindent < 1287421011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(1)? why on earth. < 1287421048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to have a real condition in there < 1287421058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changed it to not check for anyting < 1287421060 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287421068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But was too lazy to deal with indentation and the closing brace < 1287421071 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1287421078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think addquote failed < 1287421085 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but better check first < 1287421087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1287421088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1287421110 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GREGOR! < 1287421124 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what is causing this < 1287421140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAH GOD PANIC < 1287421146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD WITHOUT OURS GEOS WHAT WILL HAPPEN < 1287421146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*EGOSS < 1287421155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDEED! < 1287421161 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1287421168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, no issue. We still have fungot < 1287421168 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what? orwell went down?) a system similar in spirit to scheme, where the actual srfi-9 compatible define-record-type is defined appropriately, then " < 1287421188 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ < 1287421191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it can generate a near infinite number of different quotes < 1287421202 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without out Geos? Our Sgeos? < 1287421211 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help: General commands: !help, !info, !bf_txtgen. See also !help languages, !help userinterps. You can get help on some commands by typing !help . < 1287421214 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, *EGOSS < 1287421215 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287421216 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if something is wrong with Gregor's server? his bots are still running, but sometimes take ages to respond for no apparent reason < 1287421226 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, check before readding again < 1287421233 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote < 1287421254 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :126| Ah, vulva. What is that, anyway? < 1287421295 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 233 < 1287421304 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to remember the most recently added quote number < 1287421344 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if something is wrong with Gregor's server? his bots are still running, but sometimes take ages to respond for no apparent reason <-- my guess is that the xen host is badly managed, too many vms on the server < 1287421355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is a cheap one this is almost certainly the case < 1287421364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should redo the thingy I made once < 1287421365 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :233| Doing logs with dc is probably indicative of something in the DSM. < 1287421370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, all that's on the dead HD < 1287421382 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, didn't you rescue that? < 1287421388 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 234 < 1287421389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, not uet < 1287421391 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1287421391 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :234| dc -e '[a=]P?[b=]P?[dSarLa%d0 I could also send my ferrari in for repair < 1287421403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1287421404 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 236 < 1287421406 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :236| ais523, what is "MS Publisher"? Vorpal, you don't want to know. Vorpal: be glad that you don't know the answer Vorpal: "horrible" < 1287421408 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 237 < 1287421410 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :237| i like to imagine their mangled limbs. < 1287421414 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 238 < 1287421417 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :238| I got a game in my cereal box and I want to run it lol < 1287421417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, suggestion: binary search < 1287421418 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's getting pretty recent now < 1287421422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, you talk to my dad to convince him of the urgency < 1287421424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, instead of linear search < 1287421424 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it's fun to read the quotes < 1287421428 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 239 < 1287421429 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :239| i like the feeling of freedom you get driving a bus < 1287421433 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 240 < 1287421434 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :240| comex: what? *vorpal comex: hi, tab-complete completed c to comex instead of Vorpal, dunno why < 1287421436 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you need to do that yourself < 1287421438 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 241 < 1287421439 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :241| Vorpal: you can't plant spiders, duh! < 1287421443 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 242 < 1287421444 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :242| elliott: i like scsh's mechanism best: it's most transparent and doesn't really serve a very useful feature. < 1287421449 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 243 < 1287421451 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :243| ais523: my nose feels like a bad heuristic < 1287421453 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 244 < 1287421455 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :244| catseye: Please wake up. Not recorded for this timezone. The big spider is not your dream < 1287421457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, stop turning into elliott! < 1287421460 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's been adding all these quotes recently? < 1287421462 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 245 < 1287421463 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :245| elliott: it's hard to debug havoc on your mirror if you accidentally hit r, then a character could be multiple words long, depending on the task. < 1287421466 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 246 < 1287421468 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1287421480 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: try that `addquote again? < 1287421488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1287421490 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His response will be along the lines of "The data can't degrade. Who told you that it can? Random people on the Internet? You believe everything you read on the Internet?" < 1287421490 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :246| syntax is the least important part of a programming language other than Python < 1287421534 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, a dead HD will not degrade very fast if you disconnect it from everything, don't power it on, and in the special case of a crashed head, don't move it around much < 1287421614 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /have/ had an HD degrade over me, but it was over a period of years < 1287421618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, ok < 1287421624 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was still mostly working, it had just accumulated enough bitflips that it failed to boot Windows < 1287421639 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(come to think of it, that only needs one bitflip, if it's in the right location) < 1287421646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if something is wrong with Gregor's server? his bots are still running, but sometimes take ages to respond for no apparent reason <-- my guess is that the xen host is badly managed, too many vms on the server < 1287421647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude, it's prgmr < 1287421653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very competent < 1287421665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a blog detailing all the sysadmin stuff < 1287421674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do ipv6, etc. < 1287421691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: apparently it's actually a bug in the bot code < 1287421693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1287421702 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if it waits a few more weeks, I'm not screwed? < 1287421710 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: as long as it's powered off, probably not < 1287421716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : His response will be along the lines of "The data can't degrade. Who told you that it can? Random people on the Internet? You believe everything you read on the Internet?" < 1287421718 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you not have backups, btw? < 1287421719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who told you that it can? < 1287421720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your father? < 1287421724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You believe everything your father says? < 1287421747 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I find that nowadays I'm rarely doing anything important enough to need backing up :( < 1287421750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly, everything you have said that he has said has been idiotic bullshit from someone who clearly thinks their expanse of knowledge is far more vast than it actually is. < 1287421756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that's basically why i don't back up :D < 1287421757 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287421773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wiped my ~/Code to transfer over to the new install when clean-installing Ubuntu 10.10 < 1287421777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't feel feel a pang! < 1287421778 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps someday I should actually back everything up in a single location < 1287421780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*even feel < 1287421792 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than memorising individually where each different actually important thing is backed up < 1287421960 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-14-242.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287422056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye for now all < 1287422071 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287422196 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1287422693 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287422699 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1287422984 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-129-38.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287423257 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1287423258 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287423258 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1287423300 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: I KNOW YOUR REAL HOSTNAME < 1287423303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your masking cannot fool me! < 1287423383 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1287423390 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cuddles Gregor ^^ < 1287424199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Zuu is just a secret paedophile hoping he'll come across someone underage. < 1287424203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE THEORIES < 1287424219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287424223 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha < 1287424379 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're just envious because you arent underage :P < 1287424390 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1287424766 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is. < 1287424774 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not! I can drink and fuck and EVERYTHING! < 1287424781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simultaneously! < 1287424785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: I am sort of entirely underage. < 1287424789 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287424791 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1287424820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although probably less so over here than wherever you are. < 1287424831 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu is Zulu. < 1287424844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no legal age limits there. < 1287425207 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287425218 0 :choochter!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: lang may yer lum reek.. < 1287425228 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cuddles elliott then :) < 1287425242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's technically illegal over here! < 1287425246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(uzbekistan) < 1287425254 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cuddling is illegal? < 1287425263 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohnoes! < 1287425357 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, my cuddles are more like, cuddling a pet cuddles, than the kind of cuddling you do in bed :) < 1287425376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: I don't think the UK government cares much. < 1287425392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU COMPOSED ASCII BYTES THAT DESCRIBED TOUCHING A MINOR OMG JAILTIME < 1287425407 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1287425441 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be frank, i couldnt care less what the UK government cares about < 1287425576 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will continue cuddling people of any age as he pleases, regardless of how people decide to misunderstand it :) < 1287425619 0 :bsmntbombdood_!~gavin@97-118-212-247.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287425621 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you dont like it, elliott, you're free to use your ignore feature ;) < 1287425636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: err, i wasn't being serious... < 1287425650 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was < 1287425663 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1287425688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so is Opus 13 permanently two-movemented now? < 1287425702 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes < 1287425715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but now "in Three" is not ... amusing? < 1287425726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope :P < 1287425776 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway, I've decided I desperately need to write something NOT in a time signature which is a multiple of three. < 1287425942 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: apparently it's actually a bug in the bot code <-- well, it seems like it would be in the interest of everyone that it got debugged then, since it is raping his server < 1287425954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1287425956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1287425957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just dies < 1287425958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no? < 1287425969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, someone has to say 4/4 now so that you can shoot them. < 1287425979 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/4 would be fine at this point. < 1287425982 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing wrong with 4/4. < 1287425987 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err, well it was slooow above, and the webview of the hg repo timed out < 1287425991 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For me, 4/4 would be an unusual turn from the norm :P < 1287426007 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, it's a disk access issue. < 1287426017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: prgmr's disk is performing at ~200KB/s < 1287426017 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm, caused by? < 1287426021 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prgmr < 1287426026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ouch. How sucky < 1287426028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or some other client or who knows what) < 1287426034 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, what does "4/4" refer to in this context btw? < 1287426042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Time signature. < 1287426047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287426050 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, filed a ticket I hope? < 1287426055 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturalismo. < 1287426070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I prefer 0/0. < 1287426078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you just hate music then. < 1287426130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the denominator has to be a solution to 2^n where n is an integer for a time signature to be definable. < 1287426148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, no, I just like things that looks like division by zero < 1287426178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Couldn't you just say "it has to be a power of two"? < 1287426183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And avoid saying it... really... really stupidly? < 1287426192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wait. < 1287426196 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err? < 1287426201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind :P < 1287426207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just read Gregor's line weirdly. < 1287426217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean it would have to be a solution to log_2 (power of two) I think < 1287426225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I got that backwards < 1287426227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287426232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well uh < 1287426234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway whatever < 1287426260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, Gregor should have expressed it in terms of logarithms yes < 1287426269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree less new. < 1287426270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now. < 1287426277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1287426291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write something in free time. And proper free time, not silly "I'm going to pretend that you can't tell what time signature this is written in" time. < 1287426297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free time is awesome. < 1287426297 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1287426324 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm, midi doesn't inherently have time signatures right? < 1287426328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST FREE TIME < 1287426347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: SMF files do, MIDI signaling doesn't. < 1287426352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, oh < 1287426372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HUH? < 1287426379 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, my last four works have been six (when not seven), twelve (when not four), three (when not two) and three (when not four). < 1287426391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some non-multiple-of-three time signatures. < 1287426401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 4/4? < 1287426406 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, not a multiple of 3 ;P < 1287426407 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1287426409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ^ < 1287426412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird typo < 1287426417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said that like... < 1287426419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIve minutes ago. < 1287426419 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4/4, for me, would be new and unusual! < 1287426426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P < 1287426428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST FREE TIME < 1287426432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, 2/3? < 1287426436 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The fact that it's a lie. < 1287426446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In most cases, sure... < 1287426455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: There are works in true free time. < 1287426460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, cat /dev/urandom > /dev/dsp, real free time probably < 1287426467 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, pseduo-free < 1287426471 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1287426472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is a PRNG < 1287426477 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE CAN NEVER TRULY BE FREE < 1287426481 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(time) < 1287426487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, with a hw random generator? < 1287426488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see what's a lie about free time. < 1287426502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... I suppose you could say that it changes time signature constantly instead, but that's beyond ridiculous. < 1287426556 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding ding ding! < 1287426578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That's totally a huge technicality though, if no time signature is maintained long enough for it to express its structure in any way at all.. < 1287426580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*all... < 1287426613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has an urge to formally prove cfunge... < 1287426624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: with /that/ code? < 1287426625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1287426645 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah unlikely, it needs to be written with formal proving in mind for it to be feasible really < 1287426875 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287427003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay then, an actually irrational timesignature. < 1287427011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at least one such piece with a truly irrational signature already exists: one of Conlon Nancarrow's "Studies for Player Piano" contains a canon where one part is augmented in the ratio sqrt(42):1" < 1287427740 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is all this 'time' you guys are talking about? < 1287427893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: Uhh, time signatures? < 1287427895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cpressey < 1287427922 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time signatures? < 1287427944 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're signatures, like on your checks, but in the fabric of time < 1287427955 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you released the kitten installation iso yet? < 1287427962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: har har. < 1287427968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: ...do you listen to music? < 1287428003 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so time signatures on samples of music < 1287428015 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's curiosity has been fed < 1287428019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuu: ...samples? < 1287428021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1287428046 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that kind of time signature! so a PRNG would be n/n in its cycle length or something like that? < 1287428077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok, *you're* definitely joking surely < 1287428082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about zuu < 1287428134 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just curious what you guys were talking about... not much joking in that < 1287428135 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope, not so much... maybe I'm misunderstanding something, and I'm definitely missing out on some definitions < 1287428148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_signature < 1287428150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does anyone not know this? < 1287428217 0 :quintopia!~quintopia@209.59.220.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287428243 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from frama-c help output: < 1287428245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-no-type undocumented but disable some features < 1287428248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1287428252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ITT: Academics < 1287428280 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah, well, I just find it funny that something is in effect documented as being undocumented < 1287428543 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1287428763 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287428833 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORP < 1287429024 0 :Zuu!zuu@0x55529f1b.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1287429025 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1287429025 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1287429042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it is convenient to be able to have variable variable names. That is, a variable name which can be set and used dynamically. A normal variable is set with a statement such as: ... < 1287429044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A variable variable takes the value of a variable and treats that as the name of a variable. In the above example, hello, can be used as the name of a variable by using two dollar signs. i.e. ... < 1287429058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Variable, variable, variable, variable, ... < 1287429121 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eggs and variable. < 1287429264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, this is C pointers if you decide that the name of variables are their memory addresses < 1287429294 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? indirection. < 1287429303 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indirection is a p cool dude < 1287429306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP programmers: "I'm a 3 $ programmer." < 1287429312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: not when it's based on variable names... < 1287429316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo = 3; < 1287429319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$bar = "fo"; < 1287429324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$quux = $bar . "o"; < 1287429326 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QUESTION INDIRECTION < 1287429329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo $$quux; < 1287429330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints 3 < 1287429333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is horrific < 1287429344 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if by horrific you mean awesome < 1287429353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the $ syntax is terrible for it < 1287429361 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a dedicated indirection character < 1287429361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes mental note to never let quintopia anything < 1287429363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is. But your address space is now not memory locations. It is instead the variable name phase space < 1287429374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i was responding to quintopia :p < 1287429400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and I was pointing out that by some quite reasonable definitions they *are* pointers. Just not the C type of pointers < 1287429408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, but < 1287429410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're still terrible. < 1287429411 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being a fan of esoterics, you'd have to expect i'd love strange things like that. < 1287429415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, agreed < 1287429425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, useful in bash though < 1287429426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: most of us can sieve out the good parts of an esoteric mind from the silly parts when working on non-esoteric stuff. < 1287429432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see e.g. ais523) < 1287429441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you know, for the "horrible return trick" < 1287429448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NO NO NO NONOIODNONONONONON < 1287429451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O < 1287429466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, nothing wrong with some fun hacks < 1287429483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, of course you shouldn't use that in something you intend to maintain < 1287429484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had a language where variables could be indirected like ${$foo} < 1287429484 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even ${abc$foo} < 1287429484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1287429485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bring envbot in here for the lulz < 1287429494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i.e. php < 1287429498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure ${$foo.'bar'} is valid < 1287429501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, well, just one thing away < 1287429510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, ${"abc$foo"} *may* even be valid < 1287429511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1287429521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1287429540 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliot: they are not all that silly when used implemented and used correctly. i mean, you don't think its silly to allow a user to specify a filename string at which you save a file, do you? but that's the same damn thing. < 1287429547 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just implemented better < 1287429582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, what < 1287429593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very droll < 1287429666 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: my first major programming platform was the TI-89, where variables and files are indistinguishable, and indirection was the actual literal way to save a file at a user specified location < 1287429709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: he's not joking. < 1287429709 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i should say "global variables" and files are indistinguishable, sincee local variables didn't get saved to ram) < 1287429811 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, bah, you were lucky, on TI-83+ we didn't even have local variables. Nor files. At most the assembler programmers had "program variables", the TI-BAISC programmers just had the global variables. < 1287429830 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i started on the TI-82. i know your pain. < 1287429860 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, well I replaced the batteries in my TI-83+ twice. TI-89 batteries doesn't last nearly as long < 1287429878 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, also, TI-83+ is not quite as bad as TI-82 < 1287429927 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the low #'d TIs didn't even have lowercase alphabet. the only way to display strings with lowercase letters was by repeatedly displaying system function names in the right places until what was left was what you wanted < 1287429951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287429958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that possible for all words? < 1287429958 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall a version of Mastermind, that display Mastermind that way. It started with "Histogram" (a built-in) to get the "st" < 1287429971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just vomited up some blood. < 1287429979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor is disgusted with free time. < 1287429987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1287429998 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, TI-83+ does, but you can't access it normally. You either need to use some asm stuff, or you need to use a language pack and use the "enter-non-English-letter-menu" where you can enter lower case variants of all < 1287430009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hmmm would be nice with a formally verified libc < 1287430050 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, that's basically the same thing. it has them, but not available through normal means. < 1287430082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, you don't need to go through those built in names though < 1287430092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do the magic asm, then pressing alpha twice gets you lower case < 1287430129 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. not so bad. < 1287430141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, or write the program in that awful win3.1-ish application on the computer, and then download it < 1287430142 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if anyone made a magic asm for 82 < 1287430156 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh god. < 1287430161 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks around for his black link cable < 1287430179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well black-link I believe the name is actually < 1287430180 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my 89 is dead and has been for a very long time. < 1287430186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they called it that... because it is black < 1287430195 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have one somewhere < 1287430197 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, my TI-83+ is still alive and kicking < 1287430218 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the usb one...clear-link lol? < 1287430231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, there was a third one iirc < 1287430237 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gray-link < 1287430239 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't have the usb one < 1287430246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, which one was gray-link? < 1287430261 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got the usb one as a prize from a coding contest TI held, along with a red cover < 1287430269 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gray one < 1287430285 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, yeah but what connector... < 1287430304 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh probably serial < 1287430313 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, that is black-link? < 1287430316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(serial I mean) < 1287430336 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1287430344 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was gray i think < 1287430350 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was slower or something < 1287430432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1287430807 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287430855 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can mention something exists but that hardly counts as documentation < 1287430872 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, would you look at that. A California charity that is offering to pay drug addicts to be sterilised. < 1287430885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone say "lack of informed consent"? < 1287430950 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're not high *at the time*, then it can be informed consent, right? < 1287430960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: old < 1287430979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "founded and formerly known as Children Requiring a Caring Kommunity [sic] or C.R.A.C.K." < 1287430981 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, some sterilization procedures are reversible, so if they clean themselves up, they have a way out < 1287430983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just crazy. < 1287430988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: these ones aren't. < 1287430997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they stop random people in the street asking them if they're addicts, suppsoedly < 1287430998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*supposedly < 1287431005 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1287431010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tl;dr batshit insane people. < 1287431029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Project Prevention, and they're running around in the UK *right now*. < 1287431039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1287431040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "founded and formerly known as Children Requiring a Caring Kommunity [sic] or C.R.A.C.K." < 1287431044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1287431044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that says most of it :) < 1287431048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1287431079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the founder is a drug addict with a child iirc < 1287431080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO YEAH LOL < 1287431087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and the child (20 now) supports the organisation... go figure) < 1287431102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For her, doing nothing was not an option after her own firsthand experience raising four substance-exposed children." < 1287431102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Someone who is heavily addicted to a drug like that is suffering from a form of mental illness. They cannot reasonably be said to be making informed decisions when they are being *handed drug money* in exchange for something. < 1287431104 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four! jesus. < 1287431122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, I'll give you some crack if you let me take out your kidney." "Okay!" < 1287431142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am sorry to inform you that I relapsed shortly after I graduated on May 1st. I'm back in treatment and doing very well. I apologize for not keeping in touch for I feel as though we've known one another in a different space and time. You are truly an inspiration to me, and I feel that your love knows no boundaries. Sandra, Los Angeles" < 1287431147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's written to project prevention by someone sterilised by them < 1287431150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i can say is: < 1287431150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut. < 1287431180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's just ... no fuck that. < 1287431221 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also a bit of a problem, IMO, to offer to pay people in general to be sterilised. This essentially sets up a scenario wherein only those who don't want for money or who are absolutely appaled by the prospect of sterilisation can reproduce. < 1287431231 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... Is not exactly healthy for society. < 1287431239 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nor can they be making informed decisions when they get pregnant having sex for drugs. of two possibilities violating informed consent, which has the better outcome? < 1287431275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really see much of a point in getting sterilised < 1287431306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: The one where we stop treating drug addiction as some horrible criminal scourage but as a mental health issue?\ < 1287431314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scourge. < 1287431318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not scourage. < 1287431319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they do it to stoners too < 1287431321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be amusing < 1287431335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Oh, would you look at that. A California charity that is offering to pay drug addicts to be sterilised. < 1287431340 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha this is legal eugenics. < 1287431342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dude, do you wanna get like, STERILISED, man?" < 1287431344 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes me smile deep down inside. < 1287431353 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even treating it as a mental health issue, how do you get these people to submit to proper treatment? < 1287431372 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be okay to pay them to get rehabbed? < 1287431388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: are you attempting a *reverse slippery slope* argument? < 1287431396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is okay, so this crazy form of that is okay too." < 1287431407 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1287431417 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a legitimate probing of pikhq's mindset < 1287431441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no issue with paying people to go into rehab. well not so much corporations doing it, but. < 1287431442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Uh, voluntarily. Most people aren't exactly living from fix to fix because they *want* to be that way. < 1287431447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless, of course, there is a better solution) < 1287431467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: most of them also don't think they have a mental issue and can quit whenever they want < 1287431481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, hmm < 1287431485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you guys have free rehab in the US? < 1287431490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HAHAHAH No. < 1287431490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL STUPID QUESTION OF COURSE YOU DON'T < 1287431493 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would be communist. < 1287431514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communism: They want to take away your ADDICTION. < 1287431516 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they do in prisons. < 1287431522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As per usual, you get the best care if you kill somebody. < 1287431524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How to get free rehab: < 1287431537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- TOTALLY USE SOME DRUGS MAN < 1287431539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Rape < 1287431542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Woooo < 1287431558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to admire the uh, logic. < 1287431583 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there are some charitable organizations offering free rehab < 1287431590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, the whole mindset here is that drug addicts are *awful people*. < 1287431595 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't crossroads do that? < 1287431598 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want decent healthcare, rehab (if applicable), three square meals a day, and all the other amenities, all you have to do is kill someone in cold blood. If you're lucky, you'll get all of this for life. If you're unlucky, you'll get all of this 'til midnight, but after that you won't need any of it. < 1287431603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: is the rehab any good? is it publicised enough? (almost certainly not for the latter) < 1287431604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not victims, *awful, horrible, terrible people*. < 1287431611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, i know. < 1287431643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: of course legalising drugs would boost the economy and cut addiction right down (since you don't have to "rely" on sleazy dealers), but you guys are too illogical for that < 1287431670 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it were publicized enough, they'd get more customers than they can afford to treat, which they almost certainly already do < 1287431692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Why not fund them with taxesOH RIGHT THAT'S COMMUNISM, taxes should go to the military. < 1287431703 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1287431704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To defend the US. From Canada. < 1287431710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD CANADA < 1287431714 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm glad you understand where the line must be drawn < 1287431724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They want to EXPORT THEIR MASS-PRODUCED COMMUNISM TO US < 1287431729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait, that's China. What? < 1287431740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does a Debian package's description (aptitude/apt-cache show) show what virtual packages it provides? < 1287431749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if Debian has one for a "graphical apt frontend". Probably not. < 1287431749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just decriminalising it makes addiction rates go way the hell down. < 1287431753 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, all joking aside, China actually does suck. < 1287431766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but it's even better to put sleazy dealers out of business. < 1287431771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damned straight. < 1287431785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Yeah. North Korea sucks more but they don't actually participate in the rest of the world at all so it's less of a worry. < 1287431791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lol'd at the recent advocacy of democracy. < 1287431814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Communist Party of China: We're all about communism^Wpower^Wdemocratic capitalism! < 1287431827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's actually an ideological split in the Communist Party there. < 1287431843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Communist Party is basically three or four parties in one, isn't it... < 1287431845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With two major parties.) < 1287431849 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What you saw there was the freaks who see that Europe is awesome. :P < 1287431862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Europe is... awesome is stretching it. < 1287431862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I think French and Japanese programmers tend to have the most curious grammars. < 1287431868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anywhere is truly awesome. < 1287431878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The German ones are a bit odd too. Although perhaps in other ways. < 1287431887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese programmers are cool though. < 1287431889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all insane. < 1287431903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian appears not to have packagekit. Sweeeeeeeeeet < 1287431911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes German ones too sometimes. I find the French more awkward. Japanese most awkward. < 1287431918 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Japan in general is insane < 1287431923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan is fun. < 1287431929 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1287431932 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but insane < 1287431940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are an awful lot of Japanese golfers, methinks. < 1287431942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also they all use Ruby. < 1287431944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what exactly is packagekit btw? < 1287431960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's, like, a daemon-based fancy-fancy abstraction layer to a metric fuckton of package managers. < 1287431966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, they've got many legitimate reasons for being insane. < 1287431972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So e.g. you have GUI package managers that work on any supported backend. < 1287431993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fedora uses PackageKit's GNOME interface as its main GUI package manager, iirc. < 1287432002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even sorta-maybe-works Pacman support. < 1287432009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, it handles update notification and the like too. < 1287432028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fancy things, like prompting to run applications after you install them and the like (http://www.packagekit.org/img/gpk-run-application.png) < 1287432031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They went from feudalism to democracy in a generation, democracy to militant empire in a generation, militiant empire to democracy in a generation. < 1287432042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, uh, basically it does a bunch of stuff. < 1287432052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand getting about 700 years of technological development in a few decades. < 1287432075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I like to think they still used abacuses in the 50s. < 1287432082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Did they?) < 1287432101 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, dude, in the 50s people used abacuses in the west too! < 1287432106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1287432107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes < 1287432109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abacuses was a bad example. < 1287432114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I meant, uh, you know, bamboo and all that. < 1287432117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hell, you know what I mean. < 1287432143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did invent tentacle rape way before anyone thinks though! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman's_Wife) < 1287432159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Abacuses are still in (waning) use there. < 1287432169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, slide rule was probably more common than abacuses in the 50s in the west. but yeah they were still in use < 1287432175 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules* < 1287432187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er well < 1287432189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's japan < 1287432190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant to say < 1287432193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"back on to the topic of japan" but < 1287432197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sjdgg you know what i mean < 1287432203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Primarily because a proficient abacus user can use an abacus faster than a pocket calculator. < 1287432207 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh Japan, you so screwy! < 1287432210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does the website for coq timeout for you as well? < 1287432211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: For exponentiation? < 1287432223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's ... not the fastest. It may be down. < 1287432228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But sometimes it's just ... slow. < 1287432238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. But think like a checkout in a small store. < 1287432248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1287432257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: omg we need to organise a yearly championship < 1287432258 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay. Another thing from the same second level domain loaded very fast < 1287432263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abacus vs. Calculator < 1287432274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fastest abacus and calculator users from across the globe compete to work out long sums < 1287432288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Basic pocket calculator, obviously.) < 1287432288 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds thrilling. < 1287432295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fastest wins. < 1287432307 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about we bring in one of these electrical "computers" too. < 1287432309 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for fun, we should include fast mental arithmetickers < 1287432313 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can do the same calculations. < 1287432316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, basic pocket calculator? You mean, no command history? < 1287432328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No exponentiation. < 1287432341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://image.made-in-china.com/2f0j00OBwtmiPFPpcA/Pocket-Calculator-YH-H822V-.jpg < 1287432345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe slightly more advanced. < 1287432347 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no command history < 1287432351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it has square roots. < 1287432351 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only MEM < 1287432359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, it's also used educationally, because the visual imagery of arithmetic makes things a bit more apparent. < 1287432362 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm completely unable to use any calculator these days where I can't do line editing and also see the last few expressions and calculations < 1287432363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh < 1287432365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it too awkward < 1287432374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah yeah we know that you're functionally retarded when using inferior hardware/software < 1287432377 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1287432401 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when you used a graphing calculator for years you will end up the same < 1287432418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't ever plan to use them for extended periods of time really. < 1287432438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it very difficult to use any calculator that's not RPN. < 1287432449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, awesome :D < 1287432459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to learn rpn < 1287432464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for actual use < 1287432469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://coq.inria.fr/: The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading. < 1287432470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it < 1287432472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Open up dc and have fun. < 1287432475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you can install coq-doc < 1287432476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1287432478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locally as a package < 1287432480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in the coq package for you < 1287432483 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in /usr/share/doc somewhere < 1287432484 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need the source, for non-ubuntu < 1287432486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the website that matters < 1287432491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: get it from debian < 1287432491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should eat < 1287432498 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that last version? < 1287432517 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpn is a pretty cool dude. like dijkstra. dijkstra is so cool. is he still alive? < 1287432517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems not. < 1287432523 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there you are then < 1287432525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for 8.3 < 1287432531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: lol no < 1287432540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: RIP 1930--2002 < 1287432543 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287432545 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1287432555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ah wait < 1287432559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in experimental! < 1287432562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like sid but more sid) < 1287432590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/c/coq/coq_8.3~rc1+dfsg.orig.tar.gz < 1287432596 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks < 1287432602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/non-free/c/coq-doc/coq-doc_8.2pl1.orig.tar.gz < 1287432607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: dunno if the docs are in the above < 1287432609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not they're in there < 1287432614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and there was a -theorems package iirc < 1287432616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about .de., it's what packages.debian.org linked me to < 1287432621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, it's built from the coq source package. < 1287432624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian just splits shit up. < 1287432625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah okay < 1287432635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, does it take long to build btw? < 1287432640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: never done it! < 1287432643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: have fuuuuuuun < 1287432654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: OCaml was invented for Coq, incidentally < 1287432658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287432662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, err? < 1287432663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if OCaml or just Caml < 1287432664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it was < 1287432669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they needed a language to implement Coq in < 1287432679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, arch packages ocaml, so I don't have to compile that as well < 1287432687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i'm just giving trivia < 1287432756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm trying to install frama-c on my desktop you see. I did some experiments and it seems to be awesome indeed. One or two issues but ubuntu lucid has a rather old version, and at least one one the issues is documented as fixed in a later version < 1287432821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second < 1287432829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ pacman -Ss coq < 1287432829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :community/coq 8.3-3 < 1287432829 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Formal proof management system. < 1287432832 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could I miss that < 1287432833 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time < 1287432849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it'll try and download from the website. < 1287432852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, as you know... < 1287432858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no it won't, it isn't aur < 1287432861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1287432862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is community < 1287432865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why is the installed size 199 MB < 1287432872 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 199.77 MB < 1287432873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1287432885 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the source package was just 3 MB or something such < 1287432911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm extremely surprised that arch linux has coq < 1287432914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: err, why? < 1287432917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq is pretty popular < 1287432930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly i wouldn't expect the kind of morons who use arch to appreciate it >:D >_> < 1287432958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wouldn't expect most users to use it indeed. And only reason I use arch is that I find non-rolling-release *painful* < 1287432973 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, on laptops the lack of integration is even more painful < 1287432974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kitten~~~~~~~~~~~ < 1287432979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus ubuntu there < 1287432989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rolling release plus KITTEN AWESOMENESS < 1287432990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on desktops, that isn't so much of an issue < 1287433007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sure. I'll wait for 1.0 though < 1287433013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Rolling release. < 1287433015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no versions! < 1287433027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although I'll probably have a major release to be incremented when I change everything.) < 1287433027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, Install CD 1.0 < 1287433028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1287433058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.1 to start with, 0.5 when you can actually boot a graphical environment but it's unstable, 0.8 when it's rough around the edges but getting there < 1287433064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 when it's something i'd recommend people install as a main distro < 1287433089 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, you can keep recommending kitten but until I can actually install it, it isn't a very *useful* recommendation here and now :P < 1287433094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes but. < 1287433098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm contractually obligated. < 1287433167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I just noticed a strange thing on a "not-actually-ultrabay, but same kind of thing for dell"-device < 1287433199 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it has a mini-usb port on the side of the floppy variant. Going to take out the CD one and look for that as well < 1287433234 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop, none on the CD-drive < 1287433263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm soo going to attach that and see what happens < 1287433384 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work < 1287433387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it'll... work. < 1287433418 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, how annoying, dexter ends with "stay tuned for: Weeds" < 1287433420 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also it seems to do "detect when floppy is inserted" which is not the usual for floppy devices in my experience < 1287433426 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Weeds hasn't been released yet :/ < 1287433496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: By the way, Opus 13 is truly excellent, although given my... erratic musical tastes you might not consider that a complement. < 1287433504 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think floppy drives have detected floppy insertion for ages, like since the 80s < 1287433516 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhhh, thanks maybe? < 1287433519 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not quite sure if it's usually connected to anything < 1287433532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wonder why they did mini-usb though since it has one of those "this device should not be operated outside a computer, and is senstive to pressure, oh and to ESD as well"-stickers < 1287433539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The intrepidacity is clear! < 1287433939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I seem to be reaching a state of having lots of semi-useless spare parts, but only spare weird parts, such as floppy drives, dvd-readers, firewire cards and so on < 1287433955 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and cables of course < 1287433965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the only cable I can't find is a null-modem one < 1287434062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, I have decided that calculators suck. Even RPN ones. < 1287434071 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAMN STRAIGHT < 1287434074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287434115 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, that one calculator widget i had once was p cool. it didn't suck very much. < 1287434148 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a text box. enter an expression as text, get an answer. full command history, all elementary functions implemented. < 1287434157 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal is cool < 1287434185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: i'm currently being half-inspired by one i saw that had two panes; you could type text and it'd be mirrored, but any formula would be replaced by its result on the right < 1287434210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "2 + 2 +" would become "4 +", then typing ".5" would make it "4.5" < 1287434224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could edit it etc. < 1287434224 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1287434234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehh, it feels like you'd have to look across too much < 1287434240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm thinking about ways to display it inline and the like < 1287434246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the linear typing shit is just lame < 1287434247 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i was thinking too < 1287434253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sqrt(" takes way too long to type :) < 1287434262 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287434264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm not sure < 1287434267 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it beats clicking a button < 1287434340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but < 1287434346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's imperfect, which is unacceptable! :) < 1287434354 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a textbox that mirrors your infix expression in rpn on the fly? < 1287434363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, why? < 1287434365 0 :Slereah!~butt@ANantes-259-1-129-38.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1287434371 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Vorpal> elliott, basic pocket calculator? You mean, no command history? < 1287434374 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1287434387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: silver spoon. uh - silver calculator? < 1287434411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running Windows in a VM on Debian on a MacBook WOOH < 1287434412 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what is there to blink about? < 1287434412 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it'd be fun to make a realtime shunting-yard? < 1287434422 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if it'd be useful for anything... < 1287434459 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i said, Dijsktra was a p cool dude < 1287434460 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "sqrt(" takes way too long to type :) <-- yes, physical calculators have certain advantages < 1287434468 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< quintopia> rpn is a pretty cool dude. like dijkstra. dijkstra is so cool. is he still alive? < 1287434476 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not... officially < 1287434479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is shift followed by the x² button for me < 1287434481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 cpressey < 1287434491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: separate button on the ones i use < 1287434501 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, both beats sqrt( < 1287434502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287434516 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^.5 < 1287434521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, like, whole BYTES shorter < 1287434526 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1287434535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1287434549 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> Vorpal: OCaml was invented for Coq, incidentally < 1287434551 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: re: perfect calculator. one that reads your mind and types it for you. < 1287434557 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no EXISTING language is sufficient for MY theorem prover < 1287434560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yeah, yeah, shut up :P < 1287434565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well at the time ... probably not. < 1287434582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: note how fast OCaml is, and the fact that Coq is *still* mighty slow sometimes < 1287434596 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: your theorem prover huh < 1287434666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: see the line before ... < 1287434692 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my theorem prover can prove its own existence < 1287434692 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was a reference to the reason ML was invented and the pattern that seems to be established there < 1287434693 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1287434696 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else >_> < 1287434713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: D: < 1287434714 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1287434728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Probo ergo sum < 1287434737 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used ML once. < 1287434743 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the whole story) < 1287434757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo test < 1287434768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hey now, the disk seems to have restored itself! < 1287434769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ML was invented to write the LCF theorem prover in. < 1287434776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, true < 1287434780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Nope. < 1287434784 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was being overly optimistic. < 1287434785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please correct this Latin: "Futuere ergo sum" < 1287434787 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It most certainly has not. < 1287434789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks to Wikipedia and infamy! < 1287434791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah still slow... < 1287434801 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what's it supposed to mean? < 1287434813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :futuere is pretty bad, i think < 1287434826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it seems futuere isn't actually the equivalent of "fuck" < 1287434832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid I'm going to get an email back that's like "Somebody was overusing the disk, slowing everything down. YOU!" < 1287434832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Instead, these senses attached themselves to pēdīcāre and irrumāre, "to sodomise" and "to force fellatio", respectively" < 1287434847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going for the blatantly nonsensical "I fuck therefore I am" < 1287434847 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: are you writing a theorem prover tho, or were you pretending to be the MLers? < 1287434848 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I was blinking at the kinds of things you find unusable < 1287434848 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pedicare! < 1287434855 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egad those macron'd characters look awful in this font < 1287434862 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: not... officially :D < 1287434864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh i thought you were trying to bastardize a verb based on "future" < 1287434869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: h < 1287434871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ha < 1287434875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: tell me about your unofficial theorem prover < 1287434877 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, the closest I will come is a theorem checker. < 1287434887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, I was going for "I [vulgar word for sexual act] therefore I am" < 1287434904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: based on supplying a transcript of a rewriting session, is all < 1287434911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1287434912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well if the verb really is futuere, you should probably have "futuo ergo sum" < 1287434919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think i give up :D < 1287434925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ergo ego sum, i have a feeling Google screwed up that one < 1287434928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("i do therefore i am") < 1287434935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"facio ergo sum" may be correct < 1287434936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact futuo would usually be the dictionary term < 1287434937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("i act therefore i am") < 1287434943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may mean in the dramatic sense of acting < 1287434963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assidere ergo sum < 1287434965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed it is < 1287434968 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1287434975 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: a proper theorem-checker would be a theorem prover too, so's I can skip obvious steps and still get a positive check < 1287434976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"assess, therefore I am" < 1287434981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defecate, Google! DEFECATE < 1287434983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not assess! < 1287435010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ego ergo sum -> "I am therefore I am", says Google; I think it may be entirely wrong again < 1287435015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, my suggestion is "futuo ergo sum", then < 1287435031 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, I occasionally peak at 1MB/s diskspeed X_X < 1287435032 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will be therefore i am? < 1287435032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: LOL, Google's Latin -> English of "futuo ergo sum": < 1287435033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE CONNECTION WITH A WOMAN, therefore I am < 1287435039 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1287435045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistical translation, it's what's for dinner < 1287435054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in latin, the first person present indicative is the dictionary term, and also what you want in such a sentence) < 1287435057 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "prover" usually connotes "proof finder" -- I have no inclination to do that part < 1287435059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*+singular < 1287435066 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to prove it, you gotta find it yourself < 1287435068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: no it doesn't < 1287435091 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: to some degree it assists you in getting the proof, otherwise what good is it? it would be useless, like mine < 1287435091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: (there are interactive development tools but mostly they just consist of little programs that throw stuff at the problem until it sticks, and also things that generate proof steps based on input) < 1287435102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287435118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i should reiterate that my small knowledge of latin is mainly about grammar, not vocabulary < 1287435121 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: then you can't make a theorem-checker that meets my standards, as a theorem prover is just a search routine, and i need a search routine to find the obvious skipped steps in my proofs < 1287435142 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1287435143 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: true enough, but your standards were not my goal < 1287435154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Socks killed Always the menacing blowhard. He walked up to the pavement. He Thought of The World Changes related he had created, and he had to Changes related Thosses destroyed. To these I could not take it, you are and he collapsed on a He handed. Spread the wings, he said. Spread the wings. < 1287435162 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't aspire high enough! < 1287435229 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amen. < 1287435251 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amen to me not aspiring high enough? < 1287435280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think to my Google-generated nonsense < 1287435287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter english into latin->english, enjoy < 1287435335 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1287435392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coca-Cola Will me at my trial to an old woman, your pieces! In the peacetime There is only War! Pepsi lord! Tear From the trees! Only in the Salvation of can you find Peace - Peace from Pepsi and so do menacing - in the Freedom of the real Coca-Cola, it goes Where the only strain it available. Amen! 1 approve of this message, and 1 am endorsed by only one known as the Most secret things. < 1287435443 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a funny way of saying "anonymous" < 1287435475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Futur, to have sexual intercourse infinitive, perfect futur, the past participle of futūtum, Latin for "to coupled to a", this richly attested and Useful. Not only the word itself, but Also derived words as perfututum horse, nothing reasonably could be translated "totally fucked", and AFTER COPULATION, "fucked out, the exhausted from intercourse", are attested in the Classical English literature. The noun derived futūtiō, "Act of intercourse", < 1287435476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also out into the Classical Latin, the name of the agent and the futūtor, corresponding to the English by the twin "fucker", TURN OFF Also from Changes related word. < 1287435513 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the sporadic capitalization < 1287435560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's... interesting. < 1287435639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latin lingua stultum usquam. < 1287435802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone actually know latin here < 1287435852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/pastes/1230779/text?key=8juqvscpwzcvbg2pozpa I made it rape a way-too-popular sonnet < 1287435855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA GOOGLE DOES MY BIDDING < 1287435886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, still has "wand'rest" in there. < 1287435958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I found a paper titled "Static Analysis of the XEN Kernel using Frama-C", that seems cool < 1287435960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/pastes/1230785/text?key=s5vjy5qznqtiurzpm3zndq Better rape < 1287435963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: cool. < 1287435968 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, in fact there are lots of papers mentioning this tool. hm < 1287435991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rough precious stones, for the favor of the wind to move the May" wat < 1287436017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But for you not, summer is made void perpetual" :D < 1287436019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Void perpetual. < 1287436028 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is that the translation? < 1287436033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's the translation back < 1287436034 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:24 < quintopia> what does doing that entail? < 1287436035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also where did you get that text from < 1287436038 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:38 < quintopia> bedtime < 1287436040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what was it originally? < 1287436041 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:41 < curiosity> :P < 1287436045 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1287436049 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misclicked a link < 1287436053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Translate it back with http://translate.google.com/ and you'll see. < 1287436054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1287436054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, hopefully. < 1287436078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh, maybe not knowing that the function is not invertable < 1287436085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1287436093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what < 1287436101 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know your sonnets < 1287436104 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll recognize < 1287436116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even if you don't. < 1287436122 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know that one. I don't know the name of it < 1287436124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line is infamous. < 1287436128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It has none. < 1287436132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, "Sonnet 18". < 1287436137 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, from where? < 1287436145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh... you know who wrote it right? < 1287436158 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one who couldn't spell his name consistently? < 1287436160 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so yes < 1287436174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes, but I won't confirm again if you say it in such a silly way. < 1287436174 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but is it freestanding, not part of a play? < 1287436178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1287436196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/95/Sonnet_18_1609.jpg < 1287436198 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named < 1287436209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They totally fhake the darling buds of Maie. < 1287436235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... yes, but I won't confirm again if you say it in such a silly way. <-- what do you have against using the English language in a way that might perhaps be seen by some as more complicated than required to express something? < 1287436263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sonnet_18.ogg what the fucking fuck < 1287436270 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(okay, that one needs some commas) < 1287436423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You see not a reason? Not in the endless folds of Plato's realm of concepts do you see some hint at a justification for not using excessive verbiage? You, not seeing a reason, even advocate this style of wording? You believe that it is superb for one and all to compose their sayings with the highest complexity and the longest form, so that to all its readers its basic message and meaning is obscured, and any more complicated message under < 1287436423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neath is suffocated by the smothering layers of crap? < 1287436427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH TO THAT I SAY < 1287436429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAH! < 1287436463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Does your oh-so-much-tastier OISC have an esolangs wiki page? < 1287436495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, sure, it will ... soon ... < 1287436497 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1287436510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's totally hard thinking of one-operand OISCs though. < 1287436565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could just use rssb, but, so boring. < 1287436577 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have to say, that all things considered, I have to praise your recent speech for being expressed in a wonderful, nay, awesome!, way. Could you expand on it you think? < 1287436601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*auuesome < 1287436653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Verily, although I vuill be forced to eliminate the modern distinction between "V" and "U"; instead, I vuill use "V" at the beginning of vuords and "U" afteruuards, and deconstruct "W" into its forming "U"s. < 1287436662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, perhaps old chap, you are right in your suggestion there. I surmise that you have even more impressive speech prepared from this. < 1287436701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alſo, I vuill be forced to vse the long s. < 1287436765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is it per chance to be found with a compose-key sequence? Or may it be that AltGr could be able to conjure it into existence? < 1287436772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ſſſſſſſſſſſ < 1287436831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alſo ß. < 1287436863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you aßes can't liquefy gaſes. < 1287436876 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you write these, pray? < 1287436890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl+U. < 1287436895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OH THE FUNNY) < 1287436896 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you have a one-operand OISC without memory-mapped arithmetic? < 1287436907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: memory-mapped arithmetic? lame :P < 1287436915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: RSSB is an existing one-operand OISC < 1287436948 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's lame cuz it requires an accumulator < 1287436965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: figure out a why to do it without one, then, without memory-mapping crap < 1287436966 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is like a free operand < 1287436976 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i'd love to < 1287436977 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? That won't work here I'm afraid, since that would go somewhere else on my system likely, when taking the configuration into consideration < 1287436996 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will start up outlook! < 1287436997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I mean Ctrl+V. < 1287436998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a joke. < 1287437011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh :P < 1287437016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oooh < 1287437018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I get it < 1287437192 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got confused you see, since on old mac (with that I mean, classical MacOS, that is, pre-OS X, which is 9.0 and older) ctrl- often inserted text rather than, as is common on some other systems (such as Linux and Windows), triggering some action[1]. I do not know if this is still the case under OS X or not. < 1287437193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] Commonly known as hotkey, shortcut or similar terms. < 1287437229 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually it was just boxes, indicating it was not something that was to be found in the font in usage. < 1287437263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt often had "useful" (for some definitions of useful) symbols on it, like AltGr does on *nixes. < 1287437265 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command-Apple-Windows-Ctrl-Meta-Shift-R < 1287437275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Open_Apple < 1287437285 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Stummie < 1287437463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287437523 0 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1287437528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is valid C: < 1287437529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void foo(void) { /* ... */ } < 1287437529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void bar(int i) { < 1287437529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (i > 0) return foo(); < 1287437529 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* ... */ < 1287437530 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1287437532 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1287437534 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is elegant < 1287437537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it valid < 1287437611 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return with a void expression? I suspect it's not valid even though it might work < 1287437618 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes invalid. < 1287437639 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it compile with -ansi -pedantic? < 1287437649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, only tried clang < 1287437652 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the best test you can do short of poring over the spec. < 1287437668 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1287437668 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/t.c:3:16: warning: ISO C forbids ‘return’ with expression, in function returning void < 1287437669 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's valid < 1287437670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1287437670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A return statement with an expression shall not appear in a function whose return type is void." < 1287437677 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, C < 1287437679 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm then < 1287437681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.8.6.4, para 1. < 1287437683 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's allowed in C++) < 1287437703 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie :) < 1287437800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed different in C++; 6.6.3 para 3 in 14882:2003: "A return statement with an expression of type "cv void" can be used only in functions with a return type of cv void; the expression is evaluated just before the function returns to its caller." < 1287437840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this is like the single place where C++ is better than C < 1287438047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not really, the construct is a bit meaningless :P < 1287438109 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1287438172 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is a shorthand for if (i > 0) { foo(); return; } < 1287438184 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (i > 0) return foo(); < 1287438188 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is more elegant < 1287438243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'd go as far as "elegant", because it *really* looks like foo() is returning a thing there. < 1287438267 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i > 0) && return foo(); < 1287438274 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does make it look like a proper tailcall < 1287438285 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I really like tailcalls < 1287438287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1287438297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, it does look more taily, that's true. < 1287438305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (i > 0) jmp foo(); < 1287438307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287438308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goto foo(); < 1287438309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like perl :-) < 1287438310 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (i > 0) && return foo(); <-- sure that works in C? < 1287438321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly suspect it doesn't < 1287438341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too, in fact i think it's even worse than i thought before pressing enter < 1287438346 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not, return is a statement, && takes expressions < 1287438356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly C < 1287438365 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what you need to do is: < 1287438387 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if gcc's statement-expressions can return < 1287438389 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i > 0) && foo(myjmpbuf); < 1287438390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may however be legal haskell < 1287438391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287438395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: In GNU C, this works: (i > 0) && ({return foo();}); < 1287438397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if that will work < 1287438399 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1287438400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Very yes. < 1287438405 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not if foo is a void function < 1287438415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might if foo returns something < 1287438476 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo is a Bool < 1287438494 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or int, or any pointer, or anything in fact except void < 1287438497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Monad instance for (e ->) has been imported < 1287438502 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh haskell < 1287438504 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1287438518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (i > 0) ({return foo();}); < 1287438523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOST POINTLESS USE OF STATEMENT-EXPRESSIONS EVER < 1287438530 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Didn't they make return foo(); equal to foo(), return; for a void function? (I could be wrong though). < 1287438540 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah you even miss the point < 1287438544 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's (i > 0) && ({return foo();}); though. < 1287438552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It was a joke < 1287438558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1287438559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, erhm in? < 1287438565 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, C? well gcc maybe < 1287438566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C. < 1287438578 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(), RETURN; with #define RETURN ({return;}) < 1287438580 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is not legal C89/C99 < 1287438590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure enough they didn't. < 1287438602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That was exactly the topic, and we quoted up there the spec where it's not-legal in C, legal in C++. < 1287438607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought maybe they would to make some old K&R C work with prototypes & sane headers. < 1287438608 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm foo(), return; would that be valid? < 1287438613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might < 1287438621 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, , takes expressions again < 1287438625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1287438685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about "void dummy() { return; } if (i > 0) foo(), __builtin_return(__builtin_apply(dummy, NULL, 0));" on GCC? Elegant! (Disclaimer: probably won't work; __builtin_return and __builtin_apply are a bit messy.) < 1287438711 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does __builtin_return do? < 1287438720 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_apply I know but... < 1287438731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It returns the provided argument from the containing function; and the argument must be something returned by __builtin_apply. < 1287438748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's there so that you can pass the returned value along without actually knowing the type. < 1287438756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think.) < 1287438959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously hacky polymorphism? :D < 1287439115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "However, these built-in functions may interact badly with some sophisticated features or other extensions of the language. It is, therefore, not recommended to use them outside very simple functions acting as mere forwarders for their arguments." < 1287439171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you can sort-of do general decorator-style things, except of course not very well. < 1287439314 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYWAIT < 1287439335 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BytePusher doesn't give you sufficient time to both update every pixel and do interesting computation at 60FPS! < 1287439338 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MAKES ME CRY :( < 1287439350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you're just too slow! < 1287439366 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It has a fixed speed :P < 1287439398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, in the "wasting too many cycles" sense of "slow", I mean. < 1287439445 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you want to update every pixel, and that you can only update one pixel per instruction (which is true), you have exactly as many instructions per frame as are sufficient to update every pixel. But none remaining to do useful computation. < 1287439446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly using less than one cycle per pixel is... quite a task. < 1287439453 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287439484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's the FPS in the example thingies? < 1287439502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All programs go at 60FPS. < 1287439504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: should be like the amiga < 1287439506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with twice the fps < 1287439513 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And none of the examples touch every pixel every frame. < 1287439534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That makes me sadface unsmileyclown! < 1287439541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...why? < 1287439551 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno *shrugs* < 1287439563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Three? Four times? < 1287439840 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287439850 0 :Behold!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1287439876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well? :P < 1287439947 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287440128 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, do you need to update every pixel every time? < 1287440232 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1287440232 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1287440232 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1287440233 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1287440331 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLO < 1287440377 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< Vorpal> okay, this is like the single place where C++ is better than C < 1287440384 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appropriately it's an almost inconsequential improvement < 1287440408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay i can return nothing in a context where i said i couldn't return anything < 1287440476 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1287440507 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1287440647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : appropriately it's an almost inconsequential improvement <-- yes indeed < 1287440731 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, so I was thinking about putting netbsd on my server... too bad I use reiserfs which doesn't appear to be supported by netbsd < 1287440857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you use reiserfs? < 1287440860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's unmaintained since 2006! < 1287440863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will never be maintained again < 1287440871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :company is dead, pretty much only dev imprisoned < 1287440884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: just use ffsv2, next-gen filesystems can wait ;) < 1287440889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on linux btw btrfs is basically reiserfs5 < 1287440890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1287440929 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use reiserfs yes < 1287441054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You murderer of files! < 1287441079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reiserfs was completely awesome when ext2 was the alternative < 1287441090 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i detect a whiff of extreme drama here < 1287441123 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really hard to compare file systems though :) < 1287441129 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ReiserFS is currently supported on Linux." claims wp < 1287441156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hans Thomas Reiser (born 19 December 1963) is an American former computer entrepreneur, owner of Namesys, the primary developer of the ReiserFS and Reiser4 computer filesystems, and convicted murderer." claims wp ALSIO < 1287441160 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ALSO < 1287441179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When ext2 was the alternative, a reiserfs partition of mine blew up; after that I've had an illogical dislike of it. < 1287441205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Namesys wp page does say it's pretty much dead. < 1287441226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can define "supported" many ways. < 1287441263 0 :iamcal!~cal@c-24-4-207-72.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287441295 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Categories: Linux kernel hackers | 1963 births | Living people | American people convicted of murder | People from Oakland, California | American prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment | Prisoners sentenced to life imprisonment by California | People convicted of murder by California" < 1287441317 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "People who named a file system after themselves"? < 1287441342 0 :cal153!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287441380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to select an intersection of two categories from wp? I'd like to see the cardinality of kernel hackers intersect convicted murderers. < 1287441501 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1287441634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 2010, year of the semantic web; I'm a bit disappointed that I can't yet ask SemantiGoogle for "killer kernel hackers" and have it hilariously misinterpret me and return only Reiser. < 1287441663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm thinkin' ... one. < 1287441715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know... especially among filesystem developers, you'd think the violent crime rate would be pretty high. < 1287441806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"semantigoogle" - 1 result. (And that's just some irclog.) < 1287442270 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Moo. < 1287442456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Semantigoogle -> Semoogle -> Smoogle -> Smeagol < 1287442518 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantigoogle -> semtigoogle -> semitegoogle < 1287442570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantigoogle -> Semntigoogle -> Semen-to-Google < 1287442610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantigoogle -> Smfgoogle -> google fucks your mom < 1287442668 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SemantiGoogle - SettaniMoogle - SantaMyOgre - Sat on my gorge - Sand is my urge - Soap on a pole - Raptors are fierce - ... wait, this doesn't seem to converge. < 1287443132 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semiotigoogle < 1287443290 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1287443899 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1287443965 0 :Harpyon!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Harpyon < 1287444067 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1287445195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you there? < 1287445244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: pikhq: you also (but for different reasons) < 1287446083 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287446212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1287446232 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo. < 1287446311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I just realised something (reading about runit). < 1287446324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: My service manager means I can ditch PID files. < 1287446330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? The service manager knows what the PID is, duh. < 1287446336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1287446351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# kill -HUP $(svpid myservice)