but not, say, "p" or such for such blocks < 1287498968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay on reddit.com you definitely start out dead. < 1287498985 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It shows that for everything you touch. < 1287498988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: what do you think of the repo? ;; subtle, subtle. < 1287498992 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Including "P" and whatnot. If you don't see it, your browser asplode? < 1287498993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it is git://, would prefer something I could look at in the browser < 1287499009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as in http://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal/trees/master < 1287499010 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, hm < 1287499013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1287499015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what you mean < 1287499021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yeah that is what i meant < 1287499023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(? on a separate line to stop it ending up as part of the URL) < 1287499029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really, I should have used angle brackets) < 1287499036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Slashdot keyboard shortcuts clash :( < 1287499043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1287499055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well what I think of the repo: "it's a repo, yeah" < 1287499066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's... quite a thought < 1287499090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Somehow loading it twice seems to help. < 1287499093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes. < 1287499102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, what am I supposed to think of a repo. It is just a repo, with a .git in it and so on! < 1287499103 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Help ... what? < 1287499108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Help it ... work. < 1287499114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Sweet, it turns "free encyclopedia" into "freeencyclopedia" on Wikipedia's main page. < 1287499116 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would have preferred darcs of course < 1287499122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: normally, people would have some opinions on the contents < 1287499129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that the Wikipedians had resolved the long-term dispute about that line with a neologism. < 1287499129 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I haven't had time to look at it < 1287499133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is very them. < 1287499133 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It actually works pretty well on Wikipedia entries too. < 1287499140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have preferred darcs too really, but I don't have the experience in repo reconstruction that esr does < 1287499146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, he's had to do it quite a lot before < 1287499155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I expect it contains c-intercal. < 1287499167 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks somewhat cleaned up though < 1287499171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's nothing wrong with git; it just makes things a bit more complex and frustrating than darcs does < 1287499173 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you drop the prebuilt thingies? < 1287499181 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if so, you broke mac < 1287499183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs them < 1287499189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not from the distribution tarball < 1287499191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they aren't in the repo < 1287499193 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1287499221 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I presume you tested with cfunge? I don't have time to right atm < 1287499236 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might do it in the weekend < 1287499243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I did < 1287499301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gitorious.org/intercal/intercal/blobs/master/src/perpet.c <-- hm, "Copyright (C) 1996 Eric S. Raymond", shouldn't it include me and you as well? I'm no legal expert however < 1287499340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: copyright notices in C-INTERCAL have always just stated the original author of the file < 1287499345 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1287499347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure if that's technically correct or not, but it's what happened < 1287499351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, the original date too) < 1287499363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unravel.c, for instance, just has an Alex Smith copyright < 1287499369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably because nobody else understands it enough to patch it < 1287499512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is that file for now again? < 1287499523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime support for threading < 1287499648 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287499695 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which file had the path code? < 1287499704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"path code"? < 1287499707 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1287499726 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that one of my patches fixed, it was generating // and such in paths < 1287499737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, probably either perpet.c or uncommon.c < 1287499754 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perpet, and I can't find it in uncommon < 1287499766 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was cesspool? < 1287499780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems a little implausible, cesspool mostly doesn't care about files < 1287499799 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1287499808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: as for authorship of the next release, the NEWS file is split up by who actually made the change < 1287499820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esr and Vorpal have about the same number of changes; Joris is just behind, I have considerably more < 1287499824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what i mean is -- will you still release tarballs via your own channels? < 1287499830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or will you only be a contributor to esr's releases? < 1287499833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any channels < 1287499838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I only had like a hanful of changes iirc? < 1287499839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, sure you do. < 1287499842 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handful* < 1287499848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You release C-INTERCAL. < 1287499852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly, I just announced the new release on Usenet, emailed it to anyone who asked, then linked to it once someone put it online < 1287499863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an unusual way to do software releases < 1287499871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esr will obviously go by his own schedule and want to put his own changes in before release. < 1287499877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his own changes are in already < 1287499879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So will you keep releasing your "development" releases however? < 1287499885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How do you know he'll never make more? < 1287499889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I never did release development releases < 1287499896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that. < 1287499900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that beta a while back, because I wanted something in time for april fool's < 1287499908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I meant that to keep the peace with esr they'd be called development releases. It was a joke. < 1287499909 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there's APNIC policy that anyone that has IPv4 allocation from APNIC but no IPv6 addresses can get a /32 without any justification and For IPv4 allocation but no IPv6 addresses can get a /48 without any justification. < 1287499910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the repo online, it seems implausible that an actual release is needed before it's finished < 1287499915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm did you integrate my patch from the mac stuff to fix path code? < 1287499922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it was generic < 1287499929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: as I said, I haven't really looked at those patches < 1287499942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So the choice is between waiting for esr to decide this is a great time to release and fishing through the repo for a semi-stable version? < 1287499943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooooo. < 1287499944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a lot of them were generic and at least one or two fixed serious bugs < 1287499946 0 :catseye!~Chris@adsl-99-91-51-92.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1287499957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, the current repo version is pretty stable < 1287499970 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first is 79 228 162 514 264 337 593 543 950 336 addresses... < 1287499972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I really want to do before release is check the documentation for inaccuracies and typos < 1287499978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Now, sure... Wait until esr decides it needs a fun fun rewrite of several components. < 1287499984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wouldn't dare < 1287499987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, code-wise < 1287499990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt most people would < 1287500000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I don't dare to try to rewrite anything in C-INTERCAL nowadays < 1287500003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Dude, esr is stupid enough to do anything. < 1287500006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wrote *fetchmail*. < 1287500020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to have a pretty low opinion... < 1287500037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you can be annoyed at someone, or not like what they're doing < 1287500038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, I do :p < 1287500039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and include the generic fixes, after all, without one of them, the generated C code is technically not valid. < 1287500046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you seem to have the sort of hatred of ESR that most people reserve for Microsoft < 1287500082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1287500124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: His sociopolitical opinions are beyond idiotic and childish. He took the Jargon File, made it stupider, and then had it eclipse the original. He appointed himself leader of the Open Source Movement by parroting things that are either obvious or just wrong, and got immense fame and respect for it. < 1287500126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he wrote fetchmail. < 1287500131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and he's a bigot. < 1287500153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... idiotic, intolerant, self-promoting and fetchmail-writing. I mean, it does add up... < 1287500179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code < 1287500183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relevant comic) < 1287500190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've learnt from working with him, his main issue is doing without things without thinking of the implications < 1287500199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the botched attempt to simplify the build system < 1287500205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did motivate me to simplify it properly, though < 1287500209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh yeah, he also wrote that article about how you can channel gods to be great at sex. < 1287500212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i can't find it now < 1287500225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was... possibly the worst sequence of bytes i have ever experienced < 1287500231 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there is also AS number exhaustion... There is BGP extension for 32-bit AS numbers (standard BGP ASes are 16 bits)... < 1287500337 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"doing without things without thinking of the implications"... isn't that "generalized fail"? < 1287500347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, he also flamed the Fedora dudes because he did something stupid and it broke his system, then pledged his allegiance to Linspire < 1287500349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Ubuntu < 1287500363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people pledge allegiance to distros? < 1287500364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it can't possibly be *my* fault, I'm the leader of the Open Source Movement! < 1287500366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that even make sense? < 1287500367 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his allegience counts for so much < 1287500367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esr does. < 1287500614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: opinions: deal between Facebook and Bing. Good idea? < 1287500619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHAT < 1287500623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is news to me < 1287500625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1287500631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, which surprises me too < 1287500658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google news gives loads of results < 1287500686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, some more trustworthy than others < 1287500703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh dear, bing results based on facebook connections? < 1287500710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing bing is *already* useless < 1287500722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think the idea is that it's linked to the facebook "like" buttons < 1287500727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah nothx < 1287500742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if some of your friends "like" something, it's more likely to show up in your search results < 1287500749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does seem a little ridiculous < 1287500756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may simply be another search mode, dunno < 1287500758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :article wasn't claer < 1287500759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clear < 1287500793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(incidentally, what bing's advertised as doing is exactly what I don't want a search engine to do; the reason I block cookies from Google, and nowhere else, is that it tries to customize search results based on searches and I prefer search engines to act literalistically) < 1287500870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's invade the Linux Mark Institute! < 1287500961 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the internet -- protecting you from the internet since about 1999 < 1287501026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet doesn't really make much sense, but then neither does anything else in life < 1287501049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably best to just assume it's a force of nature, and try to figure out how it behaves scientifically < 1287501169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet shouldn't work really, the fact that it does is impressive < 1287501187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a wonderful autonomous mind, really, we just need to cut off those little bits of centralisation < 1287501191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. root servers) < 1287501221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there anything that works both in practice and in theory? < 1287501226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most things seem to work only in one world or the other < 1287501238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: logic? of course applying logic in practice is a bit difficult < 1287501248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, if there's a disparity all it means is that your theory isn't good enough < 1287501254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can't explain why it works, it's not the right theory < 1287501257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can't explain why it doesn't work, it's not the right theory < 1287501264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, the real world doesn't really follow logical rules, as seen by my conversation with comex in ##nomic yesterday < 1287501264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: logic? of course applying logic in practice is a bit difficult < 1287501266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in some situations < 1287501270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ? < 1287501284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I posted it to a-b so people not in the channel at the time coudl read it < 1287501286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*could read it < 1287501301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which thread? < 1287501307 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i ...can't think of any, surprisingly < 1287501318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the one about the judgement to Bucky's CFJ < 1287501336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we were talking about logical paradoxes involving belief < 1287501338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen esr's response to microsoft sending him a job offer, btw? < 1287501342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I haven't < 1287501347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Microsoft sent him a job offer? < 1287501350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imagine the most egotistical three-year-old you can < 1287501354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some microsoft recruiter < 1287501362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I can link it if you want < 1287501369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, imagining's probably more fun < 1287501380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1287501381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If you had bothered to do five seconds of background checking, you < 1287501381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might have discovered that I am the guy who responded to Craig < 1287501381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mundie's "Who are you?" with "I'm your worst nightmare", and that I've < 1287501381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact been something pretty close to your company's worst nightmare < 1287501381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since about 1997.]] < 1287501381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's likely to be a famous enough incident that I could find it by myself < 1287501386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you can imagine things as crazy as that? < 1287501388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it gets worse, btw) < 1287501391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1287501404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you've seen it? < 1287501415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was just replying to your "you can't possibly imagine it" comment < 1287501417 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1287501423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1287501428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen the Halloween documents, though < 1287501443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Microsoft were at least aware of him, unless he edited them to put mentions of himself in < 1287501454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(now I've suggested that, it suddenly becomes vaguely plausible...!) < 1287501457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are those again? < 1287501473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaked Microsoft internal memos discussing open source and Linux, from ages ago < 1287501477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were leaked to ESR and he published them < 1287501491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I may have seen them < 1287501500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a bunch of comments added for legal reasons, in order to make it technically speaking journalism < 1287501502 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: boolean logic and logic gates come out *pretty* close, but only because you have things like coding theory to keep them away from the persistent misbehaving of the universe < 1287501506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1287501576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and I have enough training to know the differences < 1287501587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually quite easy to obtain boolean values between true and false in practice < 1287501596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do they behave? < 1287501599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes it seems like half of electronic engineering is trying to stop that happening < 1287501601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok, stupidly general question, I know) < 1287501606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they generally drive your power consumption through the roof < 1287501620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and act like 0 or 1 depending on minor physical details, apart from that < 1287501630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they screw up timing, too < 1287501663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is bucky uorygl? < 1287501670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1287501674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1287501675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uorygl = Warrigal, or Tanner L. Swett < 1287501680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know < 1287501684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just changes his nick a lot < 1287501690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bucky = Bucky, and uses the pseudonym John Smith on the lists < 1287501703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I loved it when everyone tried to avoid saying my name directly because of the profanity < 1287501855 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo I broke the bookmarklet. < 1287501876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dear god @ that conversation < 1287501897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book I referenced is almost entirely about that sort of paradox < 1287501911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends up proving Gödel's incompleteness theorem twice < 1287501922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a much simpler way than the original proof < 1287501939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was G.'s judgement correct? < 1287501943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about your/my win < 1287501948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, your < 1287501950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, let me check < 1287501984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it falls into a gray area in the rules < 1287502007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he 217ed an entirely new theory of logic < 1287502039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yikes < 1287502042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: appeal? < 1287502057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annoying thing is, I can't actually see a flaw in the reasoning < 1287502071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just appeal it for being judge activism, like they do in America < 1287502860 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1287503536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hi < 1287503588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: misping? < 1287503595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm, that doesn't seem to make sense in any context < 1287503599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1287503612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you say hi to someone who's been in the channel for a while, and not said anything for a while, when you haven't said anything for a while? < 1287503628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to ask him something that i don't want to bother typing unless he's there :P < 1287503664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only do that sort of thing in /msg, in order to not send people demands out of context where I'm not there when they reply to me < 1287503696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, how does the former aid the latter? < 1287503712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if they reply and I'm online at the time, I can instantly reply back with my actual question < 1287503719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then for their rereply, I generally am online < 1287503724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's what i'm going to do, no? < 1287503728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see what /msg has to do with it < 1287503734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, really < 1287503746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from loggedness of the channel I suppose < 1287504232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: for logreading reference, the company wine/debian/ubuntu were referring to is Blizzard < 1287504276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:06:46 nothing beats "cat - > myprogram.c" < 1287504279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useless use of - award < 1287504296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:33:02 enum 4 0 0 doif cage lt 4 setv va00 4 subv va00 cage ages va00 endi next < 1287504297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat. < 1287504324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, "useless use of cat" is not useless when using sh interactively < 1287504331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you write the line from left to right as you think of it < 1287504334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which saves cursor motion < 1287504336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46:10 Wait what? < 1287504337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46:17 catseye is now a Creatures person? < 1287504337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:46:54 Or, at least, is mocking the "Age all creatures to adult" code < 1287504337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:47:06 But... catseye provided absolutely no context. < 1287504337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287504338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed < 1287504344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can also improve readability < 1287504353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like your "useless use of - award", though < 1287504357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like writing haskell code with points, sometime :) < 1287504370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sometimes < 1287504407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rememeber, nearly all cases where you have: < 1287504407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cat file | some_command and its args ... < 1287504407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can rewrite it as: < 1287504407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo < 1287504435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in place of "touch foo" < 1287504441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, less sure on that one < 1287504468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, would >foo blank or touch an existing file? < 1287504471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first seems more logical < 1287504477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: blank < 1287504479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, :> foo would blank the file < 1287504482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i mean in place of using touch to create a file < 1287504500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people use touch with the explicit intention to /create/ a file? < 1287504504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, yes < 1287504506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do, for instance < 1287504508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they used it either to update the timestamp, or to ensure that it exists < 1287504517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how would you create a blank file? < 1287504519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ensuring that a file exists isn't quite the same as creating it < 1287504527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: generally speaking, I wouldn't < 1287504533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if you would? < 1287504552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only times I've done that, it was via a GUI, so right-click | New... < 1287504563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, ">foo" works in both dash and pdksh < 1287504567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable enough for me! < 1287504576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use touch to create an empty file via the commandline, but I don't think that's ever come up < 1287504579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and so does "y < 1287504772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some definition of ifnix < 1287504773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*infix < 1287504777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287504779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: more like < 1287504781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliot, python is awesome < 1287507702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:26:48 --- part: awilcox left #esoteric < 1287507712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one, it's blatantly obvious greasemonkey told you to come in here or something < 1287507721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wowsa. < 1287507724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, you can't even spell my name, why should i listen to your language opniions? < 1287507726 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That is superbroken. < 1287507727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two, that's not how you spell elliott? < 1287507737 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three, you just came in there to say that, you're amazingly idiotic if you think that'll change my mind < 1287507744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :four, you're therefore just saying it for the hell of it < 1287507749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five, do you seriously have nothing better to do with your time? < 1287507755 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eliotte: How do you spell elliott? < 1287507761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it took all of 15 seconds < 1287507771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :five isn't really a valid point, some of the others are though < 1287507773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six, "AWOS is my attempt at creating an Operating System". clearly not < 1287507787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seven, python sucks. < 1287507789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end! < 1287507795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and the OS one is hypocritical :P < 1287507829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is < 1287507830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* A universal operating system that can run DOS, Windows (3.1/9x/NT), Linux and BSD applications." < 1287507837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mark of an idiot OS non-developer (more or less) < 1287507846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they *all* want compatibility with everything < 1287507886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :six point one, "kernel.kdevelop" dear god you have no taste in both languages and IDEs < 1287507909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you dislike kdevelop? < 1287507916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, :) < 1287507920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it, but you're the first person I've heard say anything bad about it < 1287507929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not bad it's just... < 1287507930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice, because now I get to hear both sides of the argument in an attempt to form an opinion < 1287507932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IDE-style IDE < 1287507935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for KDE < 1287507945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's, like, the epitome of boringness < 1287507953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287507957 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /me can't even begin to guess why reddit is so hideously broken right now X-D < 1287507963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, for big enterprisey projects you need an IDE < 1287507973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: enterprisey is an epithet. < 1287507974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the major purpose of an IDE is helping people get their head around enterprisiness < 1287507984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm I think I identified the main issue I have when coding in haskell. < 1287508001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yourself? < 1287508051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, harhar. The issue is that I don't really have any sort of "feeling" for when lazyness matters. I keep thinking along strict evaluation lines a lot. < 1287508061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't think along evaluation lines at all < 1287508069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, bbl missed what the time was < 1287508073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to get eval order in your head when writing Haskell, you're doing it wrong < 1287508080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I read most langs in eval order; not so with Haskell) < 1287508176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that < 1287508195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I decided earlier today that my OS will be open source, under an Apache 1-like license. This was a big step for me; I wasn't sure if I wanted to be closed or open." < 1287508215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your amateur OS is totally important enough that people will pay attention to it even if they can't study the code. < 1287508243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, Apache 1? < 1287508248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apache abandoned that license because it was insane < 1287508282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but that does not stop insane internet people. < 1287508293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1287508301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who come into #esoteric presumably at the behest of GreaseMonkey (he's hosted on a "wilcoxtech" server) to tell me how awesome Python is because I dissed it < 1287508312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without even offering any sort of argument and not even insulting my mother < 1287508322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least someone cares about my opinions enough :) < 1287508324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've had to reimplement libraries before because the existing libraries were Apache 1-licensed) < 1287508404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:55:17 Sgeo: In English, "or" = xor *only* if talking to someone who is actually familiar with xor. :P < 1287508406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1287508410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's xor even then, they just don't know it < 1287508439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm familiar with xor, but normally interpret "or" as inclusive < 1287508443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it depends on context < 1287508469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even more, I interpret it as alternative, i.e. "do you want A or B" doesn't normally cause the answer "yes") < 1287508601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "did you do it, or did he?" < 1287508608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287508614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "did you do fly, or did he fly?" < 1287508616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if both of you flew, uh < 1287508617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1287508621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it makes little sense < 1287508631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "both" < 1287508644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clearly we must introduce Both Logic < 1287508652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it already exists < 1287508662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half the people in this department, if you ask them about truth values < 1287508672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's unknown logic, probably < 1287508674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not BOTH LOGIC < 1287508676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will draw a little diamond, with true on the left, false on the right, neither on the bottom, both on the top < 1287508775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom is, incidentally, the same bottom that's the return value of an infinite loop < 1287508868 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1287508883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and both is the type with one element < 1287508889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(confusingly, not the type with all elements) < 1287508895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1287508897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287508898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1287508901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends :D < 1287508913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, actual both logic is quite an interesting idea imo < 1287508915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is < 1287508916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F + F = F < 1287508916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F + T = F < 1287508916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T + T = B < 1287508922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's T+B? what's F+B? < 1287508929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where + is like souped-up and here < 1287508932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: these are the sort of people who quantify over systems of logic < 1287508941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1287508943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T+B = B, I think < 1287508947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F+B is probably F < 1287508950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it might be T < 1287508954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("both is just THAT TRUE!") < 1287508964 0 :cpressey!~CPressey@12.116.117.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287508970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi cpressey < 1287508975 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1287508983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: any netbsd luck? < 1287509013 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, mostly backing things up, now that i have something that can burn dvds. < 1287509020 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow perhaps < 1287509035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1287509037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T+B = T < 1287509047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F + F = F < 1287509047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F + T = F < 1287509047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F + B = F < 1287509047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T + B = T < 1287509047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T + T = B < 1287509048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1287509060 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am actually planning on installing 10.10 here at work so i don't have to install it at home :D < 1287509076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:21:44 It does not work nicely in Chrome /anywhere/ < 1287509077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1287509082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it did when i tried < 1287509087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how does that make sense xD < 1287509135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i have access to a 10.10 install *somewhere*, i won't be as tempted to install it on my home machine where I COULD be installing netbsd instead! < 1287509157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, getting sick of virtualbox < 1287509173 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things will go smoother here if windows is not involved < 1287509199 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except for scheduling meetings; outlook actually kind of works for that, while nothing else seems to) < 1287509231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about talking to people in person? that's how I schedule meetings < 1287509266 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg civilization would fall apart < 1287509267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:28:24 Right, if a node has non-whitespace text children, OR it has no non-inline children at all, then it's a platform. < 1287509272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: bet wrapper divs fuck it up < 1287509287 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's more a matter of it being retained on a calendar as a reminder < 1287509303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well add it to your calendar then? < 1287509306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey works for the MAN < 1287509309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evolution does that just fine for me < 1287509311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he sold out < 1287509323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even directly from emails sent from someone else's Outlook or whatever the Mac equivalent is < 1287509344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe all the non-outlook-using people here are making excuses, then :) < 1287509370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possibly because everyone but me seems to hate Evolution for some reason < 1287509373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:08:21 Damn it jQuery, stop solving all my problems! < 1287509383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[John Resig's guiding spirit disappears from Gregor's soul] < 1287509387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find it a pretty nice Outlook substitute, and get irritated at Thunderbird < 1287509398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate both! but you could have guessed that < 1287509436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wow, best imitation of zzo38's style of speech yet found: < 1287509446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I agree. jQuery is really the bset, it solves all kinds of browser problems and is good, as well" < 1287509448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*best, < 1287509450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you hate all email programs? < 1287509458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and X, as well" at the end of a long sentence seems to help a lot < 1287509463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well ... um ... maybe ... yes < 1287509470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I saw the comment before the introductory sentence, and thought "hey that sounds just like zzo38" < 1287509496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a really charming form of grammar < 1287509507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if unparsable < 1287509524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes) < 1287509563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:40:20 gregor: http://filebin.ca/qxuvnd < 1287509565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what file format is this? < 1287509570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of a filename doesn't help... < 1287509582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(why can't filebin specify the filename in the relevant header? sheesh) < 1287509659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filebin specifies it in the URL, optionally < 1287509666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does file(1) help identify the file? < 1287509689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but... it should really use the correct http header < 1287509691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Disposition or whatever < 1287509695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already does it to force a download < 1287509699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just needs ; filename=foo < 1287509722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friend: so have you decided what you are going to do about the websites? < 1287509722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark Zuckerberg: yea i’m going to fuck them < 1287509722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark Zuckerberg: probably in the year < 1287509722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mark Zuckerberg: *ear < 1287509724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[on ConnectU] < 1287509733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On September 20, 2010, Facebook confirmed the authenticity of these leaked instant messages in a New Yorker article." < 1287509738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's probably a gif < 1287509750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that fits what quintopia said about it afterwards < 1287509751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the context < 1287509752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"probably"? < 1287509767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIFs have a reliable magic number, don't they? < 1287509774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are you trying to determine what the file is without downloading it? < 1287509788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i already dismissed the download window and ~/Downloads is huge :P < 1287509802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean you don't move files to more sensible locations immediately after downloading them? < 1287509819 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what location could possibly be more sensible than ~/Downloads? < 1287509845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i totally would but i'm lazy as hell. also -- why not just pop up a download box if you do that? < 1287509850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "save as" < 1287509862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: the fact that a file originally came from the Internet is pretty irrelevant to it, generally < 1287509879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I do normally, but sometimes the file downloads in the wrong place for no apparent reason < 1287509911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used to have ~/Saved/YYYY-MM; anything I wanted to keep would go there. < 1287509919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, I'd put installation ISOs there and the like. < 1287509923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And just about anything I didn't want to delete. < 1287509932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It saved me having to categorise what was essentially a heap of random stuff. < 1287509934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if I don't want to keep something, I generally just delete it < 1287509937 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i usually extract the contents to somewhere sensible, and leave the archive in the downloads directory, pretending it's a cache. of course, if it's not an archive, that's a different matter < 1287509941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ditto < 1287509950 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"somewhere sensible", though, is usually ~/build < 1287509950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if I did want to keep it, it went into ~/Saved/YYYY-MM < 1287509959 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which barely counts < 1287509967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, ~/Saved/YYYYQN/ would probably be more reasonable < 1287509969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. 2010Q3 < 1287509975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for third quarter of 2010 < 1287510034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun thing to do: compare infoboxes on Wikipedia for two identical twins < 1287510121 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured new potential problem with IPv4 depletion: After the first RIR (APNIC) has been depleted, "RIR shopping" likely commerces, especially for Asian users. This will fragment the routing tables even more (and IPv4 routing table fragmentation is already bad). < 1287510212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: how, exactly, does the internet stll manage to work? < 1287510225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*still < 1287510246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's working a lot slower than in theory it should < 1287510258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it still works remarkably well < 1287510262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try tracerouting your connections some time, and geolocating each of the hops < 1287510274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number of times the route actually starts off in entirely the wrong direction is quite worrying < 1287510303 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipv6 isn't going to happen, is it... < 1287510314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i have to note that ipv4 depletion was predicted to happen very very soon years ago < 1287510315 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Routing table fragmentation is router-internal problem. < 1287510368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's probably going to happen eventually in 2012, and cause the end of the world < 1287510382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Mayan calendar actually rolls over to a new cycle in 2220, it was originally misinterpreted) < 1287510392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and cycles aren't the end of the world, etc. etc. < 1287510403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, i totally have plans to make plans for December 21st, 2012. < 1287510415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, although Mayan mythology did have it that they caused mass extinctions < 1287510417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wonder how many suicides it'll get < 1287510419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Y2k got a few < 1287510425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, a depressing thought < 1287510438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, why would you bother committing suicide if the world's about to end anyway? < 1287510449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because otherwise CTHULHU WILL CONSUME YOUR SOUL TEN TIMES MORE PAINFULLY < 1287510454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something to that effect < 1287510473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least solace can be taken in the fact that it's very unlikely someone smarter than a sack of bricks would do it < 1287510481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even insane intelligent people tend to be a bit more creative than that...) < 1287510563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, believing I'm sane would require a huge number of assumptions about the world I'm not willing to make < 1287510563 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny how many think that there's going to be some disaster because Mayans predicted there would be... Well, Mayans made no prediction of that day being special (apart of prediction of big party). < 1287510588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they did, according to mythology there was a mass extinction at the end of every cycle so far < 1287510591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what has your sanity got to do with it? :) < 1287510595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, they didn't predict that the pattern would necessarily continue < 1287510614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the topic came up < 1287510617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it was 2020 as you said < 1287510619 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they predict their own civilization's extinction? < 1287510621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2220 < 1287510625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1287510626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better < 1287510634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I'm not sure < 1287510638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although not really, as i don't get to see the *second* day of insanity < 1287510640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their calendar didn't, but I'm not sure it was meant to < 1287510654 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they though the cycle wouldn't continue (because now (IIRC 5th time), the creation actually succeeded). < 1287510661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ohhh i'm sure there will be *some* insanity come 2020. < 1287510669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: there's insanity every year! < 1287510683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mayans weren't that hot anyway < 1287510694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're smarter than them :P < 1287510703 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, there wasn't much panic in 1996, even though that year was explicitly mentioned in some prophecies... i guess they were too obscure < 1287510709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember there was an end-of-the-world scare in 1996 < 1287510714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at school, at least < 1287510722 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm, interesting < 1287510728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEAVEN'S GATE < 1287510732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: unrelated to 1996) < 1287510733 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh right < 1287510733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that was Nostradamus's prediction, IIRC, or at least one interpretation of what he wrote < 1287510737 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot about them! < 1287510738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was 1997 < 1287510739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1996 < 1287510740 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sneaker peopl! < 1287510741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 23:28:24 Right, if a node has non-whitespace text children, OR it has no non-inline children at all, then it's a platform. < 1287510741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: bet wrapper divs fuck it up < 1287510747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw: < 1287510748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Exit Press Release: < 1287510749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Away Team" Returns to Level Above Human]] < 1287510751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.heavensgate.com/misc/pressrel.htm < 1287510752 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrapper divs have non-inline children. < 1287510753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translated: < 1287510758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you wouldn't expect apocalypticists to get the year write, would you? < 1287510759 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they also have text, then yup, womped up. < 1287510760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here's a press release, we're going to go kill ourselves now." < 1287510763 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And when it comes to disasters, there's considerable diference between disaster that takes down western civilization and an ELE. < 1287510774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wouldn't expect them to get it write, no. What? < 1287510780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, right < 1287510780 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 01:40:20 gregor: http://filebin.ca/qxuvnd <-- this is a .tar.gz. Learn to file(1) < 1287510793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't see why I should go to the effort >:) < 1287510795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I type by thinking what I want to type auditorily, then my fingers translate it into letters < 1287510800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It opened with Archive Manager < 1287510807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gave up and cried after showing a file with the same name as the only entry. < 1287510814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's... impressive... ly bad < 1287510822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not deliberate, it just sort of happened < 1287510827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you not think non-audially? < 1287510829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I have to go back and correct homophones that have crept in somehow < 1287510837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can; but not words for some reason < 1287510839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not "audibly", spellcheck! :P) < 1287510840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally just think in thoughts < 1287510853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so when you're thinking about whatever you... don't even have an internal monologue? < 1287510858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they become sounds when I have to translate them to a language < 1287510863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just float around pure concept-space? i find that unlikely < 1287510879 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i had an experience the other day which made it clear to me that i think in both thoughts and words, like on two levels < 1287510880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've started typing a sentence and then realised I didn't know what the next word in it was in English, or indeed any other language, before < 1287510883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it didn't happen often < 1287510888 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only takes one very bad pandemic to take down civilization. That wouldn't be even near ELE. < 1287510894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's proof that thoughts happen as thoughts, and only become words when you try to determine what they are < 1287510900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: what was yours? < 1287510912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey died and experienced pure thought < 1287510916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then his boss woke him up < 1287510922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I N C E P T I O N < 1287510934 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: basically not being able to remember a word for something, in my internal monologue, but noticing that the thought behind it was still coherent < 1287510946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: same here < 1287510964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1287510965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1287510967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sapir-whorf is false < 1287510968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but: < 1287510972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't you hear an internal monologue? < 1287510974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in normal thoughts < 1287510975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine that when people introspect, as in "what am I thinking", they translate their thoughts into English < 1287510976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not otherwise < 1287510983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1287510983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1287510985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can, but only when I choose to, or am thinking about it < 1287510991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to figure out what we do when not introspecting < 1287510993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for obvious reasons :) < 1287510999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use an internal monologue the same way other people use pencil and paper < 1287511003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to take down notes < 1287511011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i disapprove of your memory and wish i had it < 1287511018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is actually quite useful, because if I'm at a computer, I can actually write down the monologue as it happens) < 1287511058 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, what makes civilization vulernable is strong centralization and interdependence. < 1287511105 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: at the same time, centralization and interdependence make civilization possible < 1287511114 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid balancing acts < 1287511214 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no... Its just the tendency that civilization goes towards stronger and stronger centralization and interdependence. Some centralization and interdependence is inherit, but very strong one isn't. < 1287511240 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say "strong". < 1287511275 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yes, some centralization and interdependence in inherent -- that was my point. < 1287511284 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl (unless there's an ELE while I'm at lunch) < 1287511298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOOM < 1287511349 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Western civilization is much more than 100 years old. And 100 years ago there was centralization and interdependence, but MUCH less than today. < 1287511444 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing, because spanish flu really pushed the system. Over the breaking point in some places. And when the breaking point was exceeded, the results were VERY VERY ugly. < 1287511468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugly like ugliness. < 1287511487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Modern Western civilisation isn't very old though (obviously). < 1287511491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say less than 200 years. < 1287511503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Late 1800s onwards. < 1287511555 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 90% of population died... That's actually worse than in cities that were written off during Black Plague (IIRC, about 75%). < 1287511592 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fixed Reddit. < 1287511608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor fixed reddit singlehandedly. < 1287511611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "reddit" btw. < 1287511617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...link me again? >_> < 1287511624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/webplat/ < 1287511631 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ReDdIt < 1287511697 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Industrialization started in 18th century. < 1287511710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Modern Western civilisation is a bit more than that. < 1287511725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you frozen my reddit. < 1287511732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's slow to load. < 1287511733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it fix. < 1287511735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But it works. < 1287511753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Things that suck: Walls you can't see. Make them flash a border when you hit them and then fade that out or something? < 1287511766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woot your thing fails on non-white background :P < 1287511776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, serious non-nitpicky suggestion: < 1287511787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have some sort of key that lets you jump into any element with child elements. < 1287511789 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What ultimately kills civilizations: Running out of resources. < 1287511790 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't "fail", it's explicitly set to black-on-white so it'll always be visible. I'll use the .pngs at some point. < 1287511793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Text acts as floor and the like. < 1287511799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way barriers wouldn't be an issue and it could be a game mechanic. < 1287511800 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1287511823 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers.
< 1287511833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually they don't reach the amount of complexity such that one disaster could wipe it out in one shot. < 1287511872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean, if you can jump into links, you can jump into elements :P < 1287511908 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The reason why I didn't just say that any element with children is clear in the first place is that then whether text is a boundary or not is a mystery ... < 1287511926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, it does display a boundary when you jump into something that's a not-very-visible wall? < 1287511927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...text is water. < 1287511933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort-of-solid-looking, sort of not. < 1287511935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can swim in it! < 1287511977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*brain axplote* < 1287512005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You can't argue with the truth. < 1287512036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: Also, it does display a boundary when you jump into something that's a not-very-visible wall? <-- Try it on reddit, then try and jump onto the "report" link. < 1287512048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You bash into the "submitted ..." line, which is full-width. < 1287512051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite not being visible there. < 1287512057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no indication of this is given. < 1287512087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, I'd just like to say that this game has hilarious physics: < 1287512091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*physics :P < 1287512100 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries desperately to figure out where any of the stuff you're talking about on reddit is :P
< 1287512143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, uh... you have to log in to see "report". < 1287512148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's next to "share" basically. < 1287512169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Aww, it resets Acid2. < 1287512176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't see what the fuck it thinks of the crazy smiley. < 1287512179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't produce any weirdness around "share" < 1287512184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Apart from "dear god what".) < 1287512187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Just jump up, then. < 1287512190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll bash into whiteness. < 1287512204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the very first position, move right until there's no links directly above you. < 1287512205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jump. < 1287512208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohshitwhitewall < 1287512216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Holy crap < 1287512219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webstandards.org/files/acid2/test.html < 1287512220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it here < 1287512225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And walk off the edge < 1287512267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javascript:(function(){var%20script=document.createElement('script');script.src='http://codu.org/webplat/jquery.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script);script=document.createElement('script');script.src='http://codu.org/webplat/webplat.js';document.getElementsByTagName('head')[0].appendChild(script);})() < 1287512269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for my future usage) < 1287512442 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That's ... wtf < 1287512450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :D < 1287512463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHO ARE YOU CRAZY ACID MAN??? < 1287512470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's on Acid2. < 1287512473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Acid, too. < 1287512478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Good joke opportunity missed!) < 1287512481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*acid, too. < 1287512668 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OHOHOHO, if you jump UP into something, not SIDEWAYS into something, it doesn't show the box? Is that what you mean? < 1287512681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. < 1287512685 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh < 1287512688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm aware of that problem. < 1287512688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohohohoho Santa < 1287512699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also it totally needs to be an MMORPG. < 1287512703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"omfg there are like 1,000 people on this page" < 1287512710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FIRE ZE MISSILES" < 1287512738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "5,000,000 free points and a never-seen-before power 10 weapon will be released by a GM on http://meatspin.com/ at 4pm UTC!" < 1287512748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1287512755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6pm UTC: "Sorry, guys, there was a delay at the office. Unfortunately the servers have lost the code for now, so check back again another time!" < 1287512759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In fact, every day!" < 1287512778 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... OMG OMG OMG ... you COULD have secret things to find ... they could even be handled in such a way that they couldn't be faked ... < 1287512796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y'know, it's time to ditch JS if you're getting that ambitious :P < 1287512808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVAR < 1287512808 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebSockets will save me! < 1287512825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you considered how to handle following links yet? < 1287512827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST ASKIN' < 1287512838 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Space will probably be generic "activate element" < 1287512841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebSockets plus a port of WebKit to JavaScript? :P < 1287512844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean technologically. < 1287512844 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For activating input boxes, links, whatever. < 1287512852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1287512852 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proxy lawl < 1287512904 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, I may be able to get away with proxying the HTML page and adding an ever-unpopular tag. < 1287512920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh great, so following a link forces a kludgy new page load and loss of seamlessnessness. < 1287512922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOO < 1287512931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How about just using XMLHttpRequest and setting document.innerHTML or whatever? < 1287512934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be less painful even for that... < 1287512942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ... would that work ... < 1287512953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. Yes it would. < 1287512970 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That wouldn't work because you can't XHR past the SOP, but still) < 1287512976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Proxy. Duh. < 1287512983 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1287512983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That also inserts the