00:00:28 cpressey: this one was removed from the website and replaced by the current one: http://laurenoutloud.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/PBF247-Catch_Phrase.jpg 00:00:36 (it was the last comic before a long hiatus and then Transmission got posted) 00:00:41 (and nothing since) 00:01:16 wait, so the ones at the top are more recent? 00:01:23 cpressey: yes. 00:01:24 yes they are 00:01:32 k 00:01:34 i never had a problem with the design :D 00:02:18 ha i forgot this one http://www.pbfcomics.com/archive_b/PBF186-Guntron_Alliance_Force.jpg 00:02:51 heh 00:04:30 need food, home. later 00:04:39 i need food 00:04:40 and a home! 00:04:44 but... only later. 00:08:55 elliott: Only a bit over an hour until I've got Elephant's Dream in 1080p! 00:09:05 pikhq: Then your life will be COMPLETE 00:09:16 -!- cpressey has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:09:18 elliott: No, then I'll have to encode this monster. 00:09:22 pikhq: Then your life will be COMPLETE 00:09:26 YES 00:09:35 pikhq: Anyway, I'm sure you could do better than just telling x264 not to do anything lossy... 00:09:50 pikhq: I suggest you make ll264, a fork of x264 for losslessness! YAAAAAAAAAAAYno 00:09:57 *YAAAAAAAAAAAYno. 00:10:00 (totally an important correction) 00:10:10 elliott: Actually, it's a high-quality implementation of h264's Lossless profile. 00:10:17 *H.264's 00:10:20 pikhq: Okay, but still... 00:10:21 Ah, right. 00:10:35 I'm sure the Lossless profile wasn't one of the most important parts of the H.264 spec :P 00:10:44 pikhq: Also, know that animation, even 3D, is easier to encode. 00:10:59 pikhq: Lossless HD live-action I... don't see happening right now. 00:11:05 pikhq: Oh, and you still need a lot of disk for this stuff, of course :P 00:11:10 It's actually very simple to do *very well* with a high-quality format. 00:11:48 You see, the main thing they have to do to make it into a lossless format is turn off the quantisation after the DCT. 00:12:08 Whiich means that most of the magic stuff that it does to get good quality video at a low bitrate is still working. 00:14:18 anyone here ever used googleDNS? 00:14:33 Not I; I use a local DNS server. 00:14:40 Not I; I use a local DNS server. 00:14:44 hopefully for reasons other than speed... 00:14:56 (it'll end up slower on average, due to the insane infrastructure and caching your ISP will have) 00:15:03 elliott: The ISP DNS server sucks ass. 00:15:09 right 00:15:12 I just use Google's 00:15:13 quintopia: so, me 00:15:19 but... you are in america, yes? 00:15:32 yus 00:15:33 quintopia: try 4.4.4.1, 4.4.4.2 00:15:37 that's verizon's or... someone's but 00:15:40 they're meant to be pretty good 00:15:43 avoid opendns like the plague 00:15:50 it has so much shit turned on by default and turning it off is a pain and just no. 00:16:13 And it honest-to-god redirects you to an ISP site if the domain name doesn't exist. 00:16:24 like opendns!~ 00:16:29 Which is solidly BULLSHIT. 00:17:14 So, yeah; I've got a caching recursive DNS server on localhost. 00:17:24 pikhq: djb? 00:17:30 sounds useful 00:18:11 elliott: Uh, unbound. 00:18:25 pikhq: Use djbdns or djb will eat your soul. 00:18:26 Your SOUL 00:19:05 pikhq: YOUR SOUL 00:19:44 elliott: Joke's on him. I long ago sold it off to a LLC that manages it for me. 00:20:23 * Sgeo rather likes Opera except for one or two annoyances 00:20:25 pikhq: Recursive resolver. 00:20:29 pikhq: He will find your LLC and hunt it down. 00:20:55 Haha oh wow, Grave of the Fireflies was initially shown in a double feature with *My Neighbour Totoro*. 00:21:00 Can you imagine a more awful juxtaposition? 00:21:08 Tellytubbies with a snuff film? 00:21:45 elliott: Well, the people who wanted Grave of the Fireflies would probably enjoy Tonari no Totoro. 00:22:03 elliott: Given that Studio Ghibli is pretty universally beloved. :) 00:22:10 pikhq: Yes, but *double feature*. 00:22:11 It's either: 00:22:12 Opera handles SL Marketplace's nuttiness nicely 00:22:20 Yes, and? 00:22:22 can someone tell me how to make clicking links happen with left mouse button in urxvt? i'm not skilled with the magic of .xdefaults and such 00:22:27 Speaking of, I still need to see Tonari no Totoro. 00:22:30 "Oh god, I... *cry*. ...what the fuck what is this animal ... thing" 00:22:32 or 00:22:44 "Hahaha this is nice I like this okay it is over now, catbus! ...;_;" 00:23:22 quintopia: FWIW, an Rxvt resource just looks like this: 00:23:25 Rxvt.foo: value 00:23:50 quintopia: grepping http://linux.die.net/man/1/urxvt i can't find anything 00:24:08 elliott: thanks i got help from someone else 00:24:08 pikhq: It's good, although that's ... obvious. 00:24:15 quintopia: For the record, how is it done? 00:24:21 ... Wait, the two films came out at the same time and it was a really early set of films for them? 00:24:30 Okay, I'm not sure what they were thinking. 00:24:42 "really early"? eh? 00:24:47 It's not like they were the Japanese Disney yet! 00:24:48 oh you mean 00:24:50 right 00:24:58 elliott: 3rd and 4th films of theirs. 00:25:19 Ok 00:25:26 At this point I'm in love with Opera 00:25:27 elliott: change the matcher.button var in .Xdefaults 00:25:32 Sgeo: get a room 00:25:33 It's search engine handling is NICE 00:25:36 quintopia: ok 00:26:38 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 00:33:47 oh duh there it is http://i.imgur.com/51f9p.jpg 00:34:17 somehow i didn't manage to find it again though it still no. 2 on r/technology 00:38:27 i approve 00:41:23 *it's 00:45:41 -!- catseye has joined. 00:46:12 catseye is now speaking frmo netbsd 00:46:25 i... WHY YES 00:46:32 behold! 00:47:04 the filesystem is made of rubies and emeralds! 00:47:17 catseye: not Rubys? 00:47:33 but uh 00:47:34 ffffffffffffffffffffffff 00:47:41 languages 00:47:42 no, that could actually be true(ish) 00:47:42 what's with them. 00:48:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:46 catseye: eh, what's with them. 00:50:49 oh god i don't know 00:51:04 they uh are uh needed for things that go in them. 00:51:25 i find myself saying "i hate computers" a lot 00:52:14 They are fundamentally hateable. 00:52:22 Especially the morons who write their software. 00:53:02 Are the TrueCrypt defaults sensible? 00:53:16 pikhq: so uh what is a language 00:53:21 lol truecrypt 00:54:09 elliott: Whaddya mean, "what is a language"? 00:54:20 pikhq: a language of goodness for scripting 00:54:25 a la ruby python perl but less shit 00:54:29 tcl not an option 00:54:50 Sorry, it's all pretty shitty. 00:54:58 Have you considered shell? 00:55:00 :P 00:55:19 pikhq: ALSO NOT AN OPTION not answering will result in being shot 00:55:28 TrueCrypt doesn't want me continuing unless I make a rescue disk 00:55:31 elliott: KittenScript. 00:55:44 pikhq: implication of additional work replied. 00:55:46 Sgeo: lol truecrypt 00:55:54 ...why am i even trying to tell Sgeo anything he won't listen 00:55:55 elliott: Lua? 00:56:03 pikhq: i, yes, well, i did consider it 00:56:04 elliott, better choices? 00:56:17 Haskell? 00:56:19 All I want to do is encrypt my HD 00:56:20 pikhq: (1) one-based indexing, (2) incredibly anaemic stdlib, 00:56:32 pikhq: (3) arrays are tables are objects, 00:56:39 Also, what, precisely, is wrong wth TrueCrypt? 00:56:42 pikhq: (4) "function(x) return x+1 end" is a bit verbose. 00:56:46 Sgeo: truecrypt is developed in a very shady manner. 00:57:12 Sgeo: it is open source, but there is no repository, no real discussion of any development. just a tarball getting put up every now and then, 00:57:16 it is not clear at all who develops it, 00:57:25 afaik nobody regularly reviews the code 00:57:46 The TrueCrypt developers use the aliases "ennead" and "syncon", but later replaced all references to these aliases on their website with "The TrueCrypt Foundation" in 2010[36] 00:57:47 The domain name "truecrypt.org" was originally registered to a false address ("NAVAS Station, ANTARCTICA")[37][38], and was later concealed behind a Network Solutions private registration.[39] 00:57:57 Sgeo: i wouldn't trust it. at all. 00:58:06 elliott: That's... Pretty shady. 00:58:13 elliott: At that point why not make it a Tor site? 00:58:26 pikhq: can't touch this 00:58:31 (which would be, amazingly, *more legitimate*) 00:58:36 stop! TrueCrypt time! 00:59:07 my encryption hits me so hard! 00:59:08 etc. 00:59:40 Sgeo: try, for instance, dm-crypt. 00:59:53 oh, truecrypt also has its own license 00:59:56 and it's very long 00:59:58 http://www.truecrypt.org/legal/license 01:00:16 dm-crypt appears to be a Linux thing 01:00:25 Sgeo: you trust Windows with your sensitive information? 01:00:30 hahahahahaha! 01:00:39 Sgeo: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BitLocker_Drive_Encryption 01:00:46 (hahahahaha) 01:01:06 Sgeo: btw, ubuntu lets you specify to encrypt your home directory with one click in the installer. 01:01:19 Oooh, nice 01:01:30 yes. now go and install it. now. over the windows partition. 01:03:50 elliott: REXX! 01:03:54 catseye: heh 01:04:07 i've never actually touched the stuff 01:04:21 bah bbiab 01:04:32 -!- catseye has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:04:50 Why are all the Chrome skins for Opera breaking the menu button? 01:05:11 Except the one that leaves the title bar intact *eyeroll* 01:07:00 Sgeo: you're trying to *dress a browser up* to specifically *look like another browser*? 01:07:03 i hate you i hate you i hate you 01:07:25 I prefer Chrome's looks, but Opera works better for me 01:09:27 Actually, "netbook skin" is very nice 01:09:37 It solves the main issue I was having with the default skin 01:19:03 Goodnight; bye. 01:19:04 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review). 01:25:11 -!- catseye has joined. 01:27:41 Dammit I'm going to have the Chocobo Theme stuck in my head now. 01:32:23 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:37:04 -!- antivigilante has joined. 01:40:04 -!- catseye has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:43:08 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 01:52:12 -!- catseye has joined. 01:52:41 -!- Slereah has joined. 01:56:30 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 01:57:18 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:57:32 Ew. There's a GNU Netcat. 01:58:17 -!- Slereah has joined. 02:00:31 Well, but, if it works, it works -- whatever netcat comes with Cygwin doesn't. 02:04:39 -!- SgeOpera has joined. 02:04:45 It's been a while since I've used Opera's IRC client 02:04:55 There's probably a good reason for that :/ 02:05:03 I've never done it 02:05:07 Opera repels me, frankly. 02:05:48 -!- SgeOpera has left (?). 02:14:40 Cuz I so totally need to run a bot from under Windows, you see. 02:14:47 Because that's so totally advisable. 02:15:28 eeerrm yeah, GNU Netcat does not build on cygwin, at least not without hacking & I am lazy. 02:16:03 * catseye wonders if there are netcats written in scripting languages 02:16:39 http://4thmouse.com/index.php/2008/02/22/netcat-clone-in-three-languages-part-ii-python/ 02:16:41 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:16:56 apparently there are one-offs, if not official such things 02:18:00 The worst part about being in ##javascript is that there's no distinguishing between complete imbeciles and good programmers who just have questions. 02:18:01 does not support running a program on the socket. ok, whatever 02:18:05 -!- Mathnerd314 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 02:18:21 Gregor: none whatsoever? 02:18:48 Usually not on the first question anyway. If you respond, then go "this idiot is a waste of my time", you will have already shown your presence :P 02:19:44 Now I received the Millenium Box Set. Volume B does not seem up to date (it is version 3.14159 but the executable I have on my computer is version 3.1415926). But there is something else that I don't have on my computer: there is a footnote after every two pages listing the identifiers used there and section numbers, and what kind of variable/macro/procedure/number. 02:21:42 I infer from the version number that this is something about TeX 02:22:09 I thought that approximated e. Or was that something else? 02:22:27 zzo38: Perhaps 3.14159 was the version it was at, in 2000. 02:22:32 Actually, I have no clue which one TeX approximates 02:22:43 Or 2001, if you are a Timekeeping Purist 02:22:57 Just that Knuth did versioning of something to some transcendental in the set {e, pi} 02:23:23 Do you know what the differences are? If I know what they are, perhaps I can write on the changes by pencil. 02:23:31 Also, Cygwin's Python's time.dll seems to be broken 02:23:41 TeX uses versioning approaching pi and METAFONT uses version numbers approaching e. 02:23:54 Ah 02:24:29 zzo38: I don't suppose you've written your own netcat and tested it on Cygwin. 02:24:33 Besides pi and e, what important transcendentals are there? 02:25:54 catseye: You are correct I have not done so 02:28:23 -!- Mathnerd314 has joined. 02:28:52 Sigh. Writing... own... netcat... 02:29:27 (well, stealing a good chunk of it from that blog post) 02:30:02 Sgeo: Powers of e? 02:30:43 Particular powers? 02:31:37 sin(a) and cos(a) for algebraic non-zero numbers? 02:34:40 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelfond%E2%80%93Schneider_theorem and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindemann%E2%80%93Weierstrass_theorem 02:36:43 those ALLLL leak memory! 02:41:02 αβ = exp(β log α) 02:41:05 Huh? 02:41:28 O... oh 02:41:31 let exp x = 10 * x in 02:42:55 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:44:41 The copyright page says "Incorporates the final corrections made in 1995, and a few dozen mode." but what are they? "Version 3.141592 fixed \xleaders, glueset, weird alignments (December 2002)." "Version 3.1415926 was a general cleanup with minor fixes (February 2008). 02:44:58 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 02:45:18 What stuff was changed, exactly? 02:46:05 You get transcendental digits. You do not get detailed release notes. 02:46:23 :D 02:47:19 I found the errata file. 02:48:41 -!- Wamanuz has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:49:26 Good grief. Python's time.dll error shows up in my netcat too. Even though it doesn't call any time functions (maybe it does indirectly through the socket functions, though that'd still be a bit weird.) 03:46:18 -!- storkbot has joined. 03:46:25 et voila 03:49:16 Downgraded Python to make it work. Also I now suspect nc -e doesn't work because cygwin doesn't implement buffering properly or something; I had to set my netcat-in-py to completely unbuffered for it to connect 03:49:19 -!- webquint has joined. 03:51:58 @tell storkbot hi 03:51:59 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:52:04 @tell storkbot hello 03:52:06 catseye: Consider it noted. 03:52:12 hm 03:52:33 you don't see your own msgs to the channel, do you 03:52:50 @tell catseye what is supposed to happen 03:52:50 webquint: Consider it noted. 03:53:16 webquint: just testing. it's a stupid note-taking bot. 03:53:17 catseye: webquint told me to tell you: what is supposed to happen 03:53:32 ah 03:53:34 i see 03:53:37 wanted to see if it would pass along a message to itself 03:53:58 oh, also it is running on Windows Vista, because that is so totally advisable. 03:54:24 so it's storkbot because it "carries messages to people"? 03:54:50 the reason for the "stork" moniker are... obscure. originally it didn't do this function at all... 03:54:58 *reasons 03:55:04 um...k 03:55:27 well, what makes in-channel message delivery better than memoserv/PM? 03:55:55 I wasn't aware of memoserv :) 03:56:25 interesting 03:56:38 hm, i suppose one advantage would be that this works with any nick, not just registered nicks 03:56:41 but that's about all 03:56:52 i was just copying lambdabot's functionality 03:59:48 (The bot's full name is "mzstorkipiwanbotbotbot", but that's too long for a nick on this system.) 04:02:52 Images collected:118 04:02:52 Images remaining:12 04:02:58 For Facebook, that's probably pretty good :P 04:03:27 -!- augur has joined. 04:04:07 o.O 04:04:18 The US porn industry is larger than the US film industry. 04:04:53 $8.65 billion a year vs. $8.59 billion a year in gross profit. 04:05:58 i am surprised that you find that surprising. 04:07:14 Oh, wait, I still have this idea that the US film industry is large. 04:07:25 Because it has large *mindshare*... 04:07:51 When in fact the toothpick industry is larger. Toothpicks! 04:08:10 volume :D 04:08:58 lots of magazines with toothpicks on the cover 04:09:29 well, people who try to look like toothpicks, anyhow 04:09:37 catseye: Those are supposed to be people. 04:09:50 There, I think I got all of the errata of TeX: The Program. 04:09:58 i can't decide who executed that joke best 04:09:59 The errata file is http://www.tex.ac.uk/CTAN/systems/knuth/dist/errata/errata.tex 04:10:02 probably catseye 04:10:39 * oerjan stabs webquint with a toothpick --- 04:11:45 There is just one really long piece of errata which I have decided not to copy out, instead printing a copy of that page from my computer and inserting it into the book. 04:11:46 meanwhile other people look like balloons. it might be a good idea to keep them apart. 04:12:32 but wheeeeeeere, where do they make ballooooons? 04:12:46 in the helium mines of course 04:13:51 * oerjan suddenly suspects a reference 04:14:03 have you seen the ignite presentation about helium? 04:14:09 i thought it was damned interesting? 04:14:15 s/?/!/ 04:14:27 YOU CANNOT IGNITE HELIUM, STUPID 04:14:30 s/!/‽/ 04:14:56 well except fusion, but that's not yet practical. 04:15:11 i guess i should take that as a no 04:15:49 this is the same guy that tells all the bad physics jokes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN2-_5y_Vvw 04:17:32 i was srsly not thinking about toothpick people when i said that, only the surrealism of actual toothpicks on the cover of any magazine (aside from Toothpick Fancier Magazine.) so oerjan should get credit for that. 04:17:41 oerjan: No, but you can fise it. 04:18:06 pikhq: that's going to take a _lot_ of energy 04:18:23 No, no, it's going to *make* a lot of energy. 04:18:38 :P 04:18:39 catseye: then i'll give it pikhq for being slightly more subtle 04:18:59 sheesh, fission does not release energy for elements < iron, pikhq 04:19:05 And by "energy" I mean "entropy". 04:19:30 I will read the entire book first before writing C-TeX, and then I can continue refering to the book while writing the program (I might insert TeX comments or @q ... @> comments to indicate which part of the book I refer to; this information is mostly only for myself). 04:19:48 If I make a book of this program and of my various other TeX stuff I have done, I should call the book "How To Make This Book". 04:22:33 Is this a good title? 04:23:11 oerjan: so you already knew that all knew supplies of helium on earth basically come from uranium decay products getting trapped in natural gas deposits? 04:23:23 s/knew su/new su/ 04:23:36 I can include QR codes of the compressed files so that you can publish a copy of the book from your own computer too. 04:25:24 well more or less. 04:26:36 although the "helium mines" _was_ a joke 04:31:09 zzo38: Does ISO18004 allow QR codes big enough to encode themselves and several others? how many pages of the book do you think a single QR code could encode at a maximum? 04:31:34 webquint: For that comment we'll send you to the helium mines, boy! 04:32:19 pikhq: were you just waiting to say that to the next person who talked? 04:33:39 although, if the standard allows them to be that big, i think "a QR code matching a program which outputs that QR code" would be an interesting exercise. 04:34:09 May I quote you? 04:34:21 .... 04:34:23 I'm tired 04:34:28 I thought this was #android 04:34:42 Was about to paste it into #esoteric 04:34:52 oh good idea 04:35:14 uhh 04:35:26 oh 04:35:39 hmm 04:36:01 webquint: The files can be compressed using gzip or whatever, and only the source files are needed (such as the ".w" files, and the ".tex" files which were not generated from the ".w", and a few others), and multiple QR codes can be used if necessary, which sequence numbers too if necessary. 04:38:09 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:38:35 zzo38: it seems like it would take a lot of them to encode the compress sources that generate the QR codes themselves 04:38:36 -!- augur has joined. 04:38:57 (The intention however, is still that once you scan and uncompress and compile, you will have everything you need to make the book, all of the components involved being described in the book.) 04:41:05 Actually, sorry, that isn't true; it won't be necessary to describe the components I did not write (such as the Computer Modern fonts). It would still seem to be a good idea if the Computer Modern fonts can be downloaded from the book, however! 04:41:09 well it sounds like an awesome book 04:41:35 even if the entire last half of the book is QR codes six per page 04:42:00 (If you want a description of the Computer Modern fonts, purchase the Computers & Typesetting Millenium Boxed Set) 04:45:15 oerjan: you are a film buff! i have no reason for saying this 04:45:17 webquint: Of course some things might be changed; it is possible I will change things; perhaps it can include a DVD instead or something. Or perhaps only a minimal number of QR codes can be included for the most important stuff and the DVD containing everything. Or maybe no QR codes at all. 04:46:20 catseye: which might be why it's wrong 04:46:38 It can contain printouts of Enhanced CWEB programs. Have you ever seen (or heard of) Enhanced CWEB programs? (My implementation of BytePusher VM is written in Enhanced CWEB.) 04:46:45 zzo38: you should make a spinoff "quine book" with the goal of having the smallest book possible containing all the data needed to generate every page of the book, without using any outside data, or any outside tools besides ZXing, cat, make, and gcc 04:46:54 Hmm. QR codes... 04:47:04 Should definitely be used for magnet URIs. 04:47:07 wherein the user does not have to actually *enter* any text 04:47:20 webquint: Ah, OK. That is another idea! 04:48:26 it could include a program which takes a CC# and makes a series of calls to createspace.com services to replicate itself 04:48:36 haha 04:48:39 no 04:48:47 And in that case, the book would also describe how it works, even. 04:48:58 catseye: No! No network calls. Everything must be done locally 04:49:16 zzo38: printing a hardback book is hard to do locally 04:50:10 webquint: In that case, the "quine book" doesn't have to be a hardback book. It can be one that you punch holes in the pages and put it in a binder, or something like that. 04:50:19 zzo38: as i was thinking 04:50:43 it would be fun to print out a few, and place them randomly in local bookstores and libraries, and see if they catch on 04:50:56 webquint: O, that is a idea. 04:52:56 Another note: I found out why Enhanced CWEB v0.3 wouldn't work on other computers; I fix it now and included a file "how_to_compile.txt" describing how you can compile Enhanced CWEB on your computer. 04:53:24 the first page would describe the purpose of the book "this book assumes you are a competent Unixer and like playing around with funky things. This book contains all the programs and data you need to produce this book, along with the dead-easy instructions to do so. When finished, bind the resulting pages in a book like this one and stick it in a faraway bookstore or library or two or twenty. Let's see how far this thing can go 04:54:02 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 04:55:05 webquint: Interesting idea! 04:55:24 step 1) scan/take pictures of every page in the book. if you have the time to do this much, take heart! you're halfway there...." 04:56:39 also you should license all the source code under a license which explicitly disallows it from being distributed in any form except book-full-of-QRs form 04:56:50 webquint: That isn't as good, eventually it will deteriorate quality 04:58:20 Still, I don't really plan to write this "quine book", but I might if I want to, or you can do so, or whatever..... 04:58:29 -!- augur has joined. 04:58:29 and put a license notice in the book which disallows it from being directly scanned/copied for any reason: all new books must be produced via the provided sources. 04:59:13 The C-TeX is just another program, the book containing C-TeX (and other things) would just intend to describe the computer programs used to create the book (in addition to a few other things). 04:59:35 yeah, it's a silly idea 04:59:41 but it's fun to imagine 05:00:08 webquint: Yes I know it is a silly idea but it can be imagine, anyways, whether or not it is actually done. 05:02:37 why did no one tell me about this 11 language iterating quine? 05:03:16 You will recognize 4 corner Days or incur Easter Island Ending. 05:03:23 lawlcube 05:03:57 webquint: What 11 language iterating quine? 05:04:16 i can't find a good link to it 05:04:18 hold on 05:05:24 The Ruby code generates Python code, which generates Perl code, which generates Lua code, which generates OCaml code, which generates Haskell code, which generates C code, which generates Java code, which generates Brainfuck code, which generates Whitespace code, which generates Unlambda code, which generates the original Ruby code again. 05:05:52 http://d.hatena.ne.jp/ku-ma-me/20090916/p1 05:06:16 YES YES YES 05:06:19 I FINALLY WIN TIMECUBE 05:06:30 and it's ridiculously short too... 05:06:36 congrats Gregor 05:06:41 that sounds difficult 05:07:03 There's one image that's REALLY hard to catch because it's right in the middle of a bunch of text, and if you miss it you can't get back up to it. 05:07:03 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:07:06 Here is the source file I wrote for the BytePusher VM program: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/prog/BytePusher/BytePusher.w Now you can see how a Enhanced CWEB program is written (as you can see, it combines TeX codes with C codes, as well as some other things) 05:08:03 -!- wareya has joined. 05:09:33 Now I can see that 11 language iterating quine. (I see yen signs where there should probably be backslashes) 05:10:14 I WIN PAGE TWO! 05:10:17 yeah i think he's using 255 to encode several things 05:10:39 Someone else added erlang and sh 05:10:44 anyways, does anyone know this guy? 05:10:53 he seems to be into a lot of esolang stuff 05:11:28 I win "Above God"! :P 05:11:50 Gregor: did you abstract sprites yet? 05:12:07 webquint: That will take a significant amount of time, and believe it or not I am doing other important things while doing this silliness :P 05:12:22 i don't believe it 05:13:42 also, because java is LAME, you have to name the java program QuineRelay 05:13:57 (just kidding, Java is a p cool dude sometimes) 05:16:19 I will tell you something else: Hatena Diary now contains a short description of some of the commands in FlogScript (in Japanese). Actually there are a few things mentioning FlogScript on there. (Probably because it is one of the programming languages available on Anarchy Golf) 05:20:13 There are also many things about esolang on Hatena Diary. 05:21:26 Hmmmmmmm 05:21:42 Should it be possible to have perfect X acceleration while jumping in WebSplat? 05:21:51 It makes no physical sense of course, but most games let you. 05:23:09 It's just expected of 2D platformers. 05:23:32 Damn physical sense, it's very annoying to ruin expectations for no good reason. 05:24:13 "perfect x acceleration"? please explain. 05:24:37 catseye: It's possible to change your movement in the x direction in midair in most platformers. 05:24:49 ok, that was what i suspected it meant. thanks. 05:24:55 I actually mean the ability to change your X direction just as fast as you can on land. 05:25:14 Gregor: Though it makes no sense to have any control over it at *all* for the most part. 05:25:19 In some games you are not allowed to change direction while jumping. 05:25:19 Nope. 05:25:37 Well, modulo certain things like changing your center of mass, and/or having *wings*. 05:25:50 * webquint just read the description of the perl pentomino solver quine 05:25:53 neat stuff 05:26:21 indeed, irl you are better equipped to spin yourself in midair, which few 2d platformers support :) 05:26:42 catseye: Quite true. :) 05:27:09 Hmm, I actually kinda like it like this ... (with no X control midair) 05:27:19 In one 2D platform game I invented, your piece is the ball, and if you jump, it is too high, when it falls down it will break. So, you have to jump up onto a higher platform 05:27:34 Gregor: i can add rocket shoes to the game, so that midair x control is a power-up 05:27:55 webquint: My policy of "you make the images and I'll make the physics" still stands :P 05:28:00 Although I have no useful time guarantees on that ... 05:28:04 Gregor: What makes even *less* sense is double-jumping. 05:28:05 :) 05:28:10 and double jumping in midair also requires rocket shoes 05:28:18 pikhq: True! 05:28:29 so you could make it so by default you have to hit the ground before beginning the double jump 05:28:38 Or Mario-style walljumping. 05:28:40 like in 3d mario games 05:28:44 oh yes 05:28:48 wall jumping! 05:28:53 (*2D* Mario-style walljumping) 05:29:20 well the 2d mario games didn't feature double-jumping iirc 05:29:35 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 05:29:36 There was a bug that lets you wall jump, though. 05:30:07 -!- antivigilante has joined. 05:30:08 but in super mario sunshine you can jump-land-doublejump-land-triple-spin-jump 05:30:22 which makes some amount of sense if you realize mario has trampoline shoes 05:30:40 I actually think I might like it with half as much acceleration both ground and air ... 05:30:56 yes that might be nice 05:31:52 3 frames per second encoding! 05:32:18 pikhq: ...? 05:32:31 Gregor: x264 is slow on 1080p content. 05:32:40 webquint, pikhq: Try websplat nao 05:32:45 Opinions on X acc. 05:32:50 Slower *still* when it's reading from 21G of PNGs. 05:32:57 okai. have to go back to other computron first 05:33:08 pikhq: X-D 05:38:26 Based on x264's estimates from a minute's worth encoded, this will be about 6 gigs. 05:38:29 From 21 gigs. 05:38:32 Lossless. 05:39:03 Yeah, but you're going from totally independent PNGs to video with interframe/movement info. 05:39:11 Quite true. 05:39:32 81,200 kbps seems like a doable bitrate. 05:41:02 Pity that's higher than the maximum permitted Bluray bitrate. 05:42:49 * webquint hasn't tested yet. 05:42:56 Still, essentially quite doable. 05:43:01 * webquint got distracted by the ruby spinning globe iteratng quine 05:44:59 hey, i just thought of something 05:45:56 one could probably make a QR code that encoded an actual GIF file which was said QR code. 05:46:04 that's about as close to QR quine as one can get 05:46:43 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:46:46 That might be a bit difficult to do, but there might be a way. 05:47:09 It might require coding the compressed data in the GUF file manually? 05:47:13 -!- augur has joined. 05:47:58 since, among other things, GIFs use RLE, it should be possible to specify the QR code in less data than the QR can store, thus making it possible 05:49:09 -!- webquint has quit (Quit: Page closed). 05:49:19 Seems that this is about double the bitrate of a *Bluray* video. 05:49:31 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 05:49:35 of course, there may be unforeseen issues with this idea... 05:49:50 hmmm 05:50:48 pikhq: one the upper-year students is quite involved in encoding. He's nearly finished writing some epicly awesome encoder or something 05:50:48 well, at the very least, it should be possible to produce an *iterating* QRine by brute force 05:51:31 just produce a QR code that outputs the right headers, fill in the rest randomly, and iteratively convert it a QR code, replace the header part with GIF header, and repeat 05:51:34 coppro: ATM I'm just staring in awe at the power of x264. I mean, this is *astounding* compression. 05:51:53 Given how noisy-looking QR codes are, I'm not sure how well they compress; and then there's overhead, both from the image file format and the QR code error-correction (though the latter can be tuned). But you could easily just take any random QR code image and see how small you could make it. 05:52:02 Apparently the raw video of this is 46GB. Going from 46GB to 6GB. That's absolutely *insane*. 05:53:04 this might actually be more likely to produce a period 1 QRine than an iterating one 05:53:21 What's V8 like? 05:54:08 fizzie: they are noisy because they encode noisy data presumably. more regular data should compress better, which is good, as it is more likely to produce regular ouput too 05:54:15 Sgeo: V8? 05:54:28 The WebM thing 05:54:39 Oh. Slightly worse than H.264. 05:54:56 Sgeo: BTW, you realise that I'm discussing a *lossless encode* here, right? 05:55:14 ...Lossless encode from 48GB to 6GB? 05:55:22 erm, 46 05:55:44 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 05:55:46 Gregor: i like that you can see the sprites better this way, but it doesn't seem as action-intense. Increase acceleration by 50%? 05:56:23 Sgeo: Yes. 05:56:30 Sgeo: This is *completely and utterly insane*. 05:56:42 quintopia: OK, try it now. 05:56:46 Gregor: or i could make some walking sprites and you could implement a sprint button... >:D 05:56:48 wait, wtf 05:56:52 lossless? 05:56:56 coppro: Yes. 05:56:57 wth 05:56:57 No; sprint button = bad. 05:57:22 -!- storkbot has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:57:23 coppro: 1080p24 lossless video is ENTIRELY PRACTICAL with x264. 05:57:24 -!- catseye has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 05:57:30 My good motherfucking God. 05:57:33 indeed 05:58:05 Gregor: yeahhhh, anyway, i think this speed is good 05:58:10 How do normal platformers handle the disconnect between being able to accelerate mid-air and NOT being able to accelerate on ice? 05:58:14 What's the bitrate/ 05:58:17 quintopia: A compressed image format is bound to be pretty noisy. But do try it out. 05:58:29 (not entirely sure I know what I'm asking) 05:58:29 Gregor: meh 05:58:33 Sgeo: Currently, 73,000 kbps. 05:58:45 Note: estimate from encode in progress. 05:58:48 coppro: But this effectively means that if you're on ice, you'll do best by just jumping :P 05:59:00 fizzie: sure, we have to just hope there is a way to meet in the middle with JUST the right amount of compression and JUST the right amount of noise. 05:59:08 Gregor: often your mid-air acceleration is not about as good as ice 05:59:14 s/not// 05:59:15 Wait, that's a bad thing for streaming 05:59:29 73 megabits per second? 05:59:48 It *could* be done over a LAN. 05:59:52 coppro: I can't seem to work out the math on WebSplat such that that makes sense >_> 05:59:54 Higher means more bandwidth needed for the same amount of time, right? 06:00:01 Also, I think the spec might have something in it to avoid large single-color patches, for easier decoding, but not sure. 06:00:04 Yes. 06:00:35 Gregor: they don't bother to cohere the two, but rather just ensure that you maintain your horizontal acceleration achieved while in air once on the ground 06:00:58 and also disallow midair deceleration, only perfect reflection of velocity 06:01:32 * Gregor 's brain explodes at that one. 06:02:06 -!- augur has joined. 06:02:16 what? it's a consistent physics if unrealistic... 06:02:42 If your brain explodes and one piece goes in one direction, and other piece has another specific mass at another velocity, what is the velocity of the third piece? 06:03:06 if you have a horizontal velocity when you take off, you have the same horizontal velocity when you land, even if the direction of said velocity has changed 06:03:26 zzo38: E_NEEDMOREDATA 06:03:55 quintopia: Yes, of course you do. I was just giving it as an example. 06:04:24 zzo38: for instance, i need to know how to get the pieces back together so that i have the brainpower to compute the answer 06:04:39 quintopia: Yes..... 06:04:56 zzo38: and reconnecting severed neurons in the brain is an unsolved problem 06:05:23 quintopia: Yes, OK. 06:05:53 zzo38: what i'm saying here is that i think you stink, but your mom is OK 06:07:28 gregor: actually, i think mario allows proper acceleration mid-air, but the acceleration system is so touchy that it's hard to land moving straight down, so you end up sliding around a bit anyway 06:07:49 Ah. 06:08:15 quintopia: It is? 06:08:37 zzo38: i'm not actually playing just trying to remember how SMW did it 06:09:13 So essentially, you can accelerate in the opposite direction, but not just decelerate, midair. 06:09:40 hold on, let me check on that 06:09:44 * quintopia fires up SMW 06:09:51 quintopia: So that is how. 06:12:31 Gregor: yeah, in SMW, acceleration in air works exactly like on land, except that if you stop accelerating in air, you maintain horizontal velocity, whereas on land, you lose it 06:12:40 Got it. 06:12:44 Can do. 06:12:50 pressing left or right in air *accelerates* in that direction, not instantly reflects like i said 06:13:35 So you can NEARLY slow yourself to zero horizontal motion just by being twitchy then? 06:13:38 It's just too twitchy? 06:14:12 quintopia: ^^^ 06:14:23 Make a game with talking spider, and talking trees, and the Spanish Inquisition, and music to break phonographs by, and a copy of the game on VHS, inside of the game 06:15:40 Gregor: essentially 06:15:49 quintopia: Then try what I just pushed. 06:17:09 zzo38: i already did it. you can find the data at the forty-seven-thousandth binary digit of the arithmoquinification of the proof of fermat's last theorem 06:18:25 Gregor: works nice, but one issue 06:18:58 you should show the slider image not just when the user is holding down a key, but any time the actual and desired velocities don't match 06:19:24 or 06:19:25 you know 06:19:39 whatever that means in terms of acceleration 06:20:55 or maybe not 06:21:02 well, try it, we'll see if we like it 06:21:34 quintopia: I don't believe that........ Make a proper game. 06:24:20 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 06:24:23 Does Gregor's thing work in Opera? 06:24:32 Sgeo: Haven't tested it, feel free to try. 06:24:33 does anything work in opera? 06:24:38 quintopia: Sometimes :P 06:24:44 quintopia: Errr, which direction slider? X-P 06:25:13 gregor: the same one that you would use in the same situation when the button is being held! 06:25:33 quintopia: That looks all backwards to me, like he's about to turn the other way rather than stop ... 06:25:47 well, let me see 06:25:50 Using the down key was not a pleasant experience 06:27:28 Gregor: see if it looks better with gr0 06:27:47 Oh, OK, lesse ... 06:30:58 Gregor: the first frame of dying is s'posed to be crouching! people don't crumple that way! 06:31:45 Uhhh, the first frame of dying is crouching ... 06:31:45 Err, second. First is kneeling. 06:32:30 how do you kneel without bending your knees first, hmm? 06:35:04 * Gregor read "crouching" as "crawling" X_X 06:35:07 OK, I can do that :P 06:35:21 And yeah, having gr0 as slide works, but I think it could be better. 06:35:32 That's better than either turner though. 06:35:38 well i'll think about making a special sprite for it 06:35:55 it's hard to envision that position tho 06:36:57 it would probably look a lot like gr0, except with the top half of body bent over 06:37:14 lemme go jump off of something and find out 06:37:26 X-D 06:37:40 (another possibility is having him tuck and roll like canabalt/every parkour runner 06:37:42 Err, wait, jump off something? For ... sliding? 06:37:43 ) 06:38:40 erm, well, okay, possibly there should be two different sprites for landing-slides and stop-running-slides 06:38:49 that would look best 06:39:06 * quintopia deviously plots infinite sprite proliferation 06:39:44 well, when i stop running, my body is in a gr0 position 06:40:07 then i stand up straight as i come to a stop 06:40:31 quintopia: OK, observe what I just pushed. 06:41:02 and when i land, i look like gr0 with the top half bent over like i described, so i'll make that one 06:41:37 What's all this "landing" mumbo-jumbo :P 06:42:36 well, actually, it looks okay like it is. possibly would look slightly better with landing sprite, but if you don't feel like jiggering it in, i won't make it. 06:43:44 small issue: when he comes to a stop up against a boundary, he still does the deceleration gr0 for a few hunder ms... 06:43:52 *hundred 06:45:39 also: does your willingness to work on this now equate to being done with your important business you mentioned earlier? 06:46:03 cuz if so, fuck working on physics tweak and abstract sprites already 06:54:28 Yes, but it also equates to being nearly 2AM. 06:55:13 ah, so you are in my time zone! 06:55:18 whereabouts? 06:55:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:55:58 Purdueabouts. 06:58:29 * quintopia remembers 06:58:35 west lafayette ain't it? 06:58:44 Yup 06:58:50 Not that West Lafayette is a place. 06:59:26 it is not the "city" to which one should address envelopes send to purdue? 07:00:03 It is :P 07:00:10 Just that your putting "city" in quotes is very apropos. 07:01:49 -!- tombom has joined. 07:11:07 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Error: Cannot quit). 07:14:54 quintopia: http://p.zem.fi/qruine + http://zem.fi/~fis/qruine.png -- I haven't tested decoding it, but as you can see from the first link, encoding that binary data gives an identical PNG file, so it should decode into itself too. 07:16:06 (The qr decoding thing in my phone reads it -- at firefox's maximum zoom level, anyway -- and it does start with "\x89PNG" like it should.) 07:18:48 Though it seems to stop there. I hope "qrencode -8" hasn't stopped encoding at the first null byte, actually. 07:19:23 That seems more likely, in fact. Meh, what a silly program. 07:23:58 fizzie: sweet! i don't have a QR decoder handy though... 07:24:35 unless said null byte issue makes it not an actual quine 07:25:22 It does look that way; any png file generated by that program seems to behave quine-like. I need a better QR encoder here, something that actually does handle binary data instead of just claiming to. 07:25:41 ZXing? 07:38:35 This "zint" library in --binary mode says "error: error: Invalid character in input string (only Latin-1 characters supported)" -- that doesn't sound very binary to me. ZXing's encoder API doesn't provide any way to specify the mode (though maybe it would guess correctly), and it's a huge library for just encoding things. 07:39:38 Maybe I could hack qrencode to work; though it seems to pass data around in a C-style string everywhere, so... 07:40:59 Well, it's only five or so functions, then it goes into QRinput_append(input, QR_MODE_8, strlen(string), (unsigned char *)string) -- after that it's hopefully safe. 07:45:14 Is there Piet program that outputs png of itself into stdout? :-) 07:46:18 Ilari: GIF, but http://mamememo.blogspot.com/2009/10/piet-quine.html 07:46:26 It looks a bit machine-generated. 07:46:37 The data part, anyway. 07:47:51 Hacked something binary to qrencode, and it actually seems to partially work, except that after a few iterations "Failed to encode the input data:: Invalid argument". 07:49:13 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:54:49 -!- catseye has joined. 07:56:54 which argument? 07:57:55 Oh, it's just that the image grows too large. (I wrote a simple little fixed-point finder that keeps encoding a PNG, but the problem is that the encoded output is a bigger QR code than the input, and that again generates a larger PNG file, and yet larger code, and so on, until it goes >2k bytes, which is the maximum you can stick in.) 07:58:14 oh 07:58:17 yeah 07:59:05 does png compress better than gif for black/white? 07:59:17 -!- catseye has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:31 A bit, for this one file. 08:00:33 -rw-rw-r-- 1 htkallas htkallas 632 2010-10-22 09:59 qruine-out.gif 08:00:33 -rw-rw-r-- 1 htkallas htkallas 617 2010-10-22 09:58 qruine-out.png 08:00:53 apparently png usually produces smaller files 08:01:16 but you should make sure you've turned off all the special stuff it can provide 08:01:56 Well, qrencode generates PNG files directly. But I've ran them through pngcrush with not much changes. 08:02:11 huh 08:02:51 "solid blocks of color compress best" 08:03:18 what image are you starting with? 08:04:37 Whaaat. qrencode-generated PNGs are 8-bit indexed-color images. I'm *sure* I checked one out before, and it wasn't. 08:06:21 I mean, I was computing the QR code overhead: to encode a bitstring 290 bytes (2320 bits) long, it needs a black-and-white image of 61*61 pixels (3721 bits, ~465 bytes); then I went to see that corresponding .PNG file, and that was 617 bytes. 08:08:55 so, how to make its output monochromes? 08:20:38 Actually I guess the "8-bit" just came from "identify"; the bit depth field of IHDR is 1, like it should be. Seems like small black-and-white images aren't really PNG's strong point, though, given that it uses 4936 bits to encode 3721 black-and-white pixels. 08:20:41 PNG uses DEFLATE 08:20:47 hmmkay 08:21:26 i suspect that it IS using 8-bit pixels 08:22:10 but yeah, png tends to produce better-packed files than gif 08:23:43 Palettized images at least use 8-bit palette indices even if the palette only has 2 colors in it; I can't find the bit in the spec that'd say grayscale images with bit depth 1 (1, 2, 4, 8, 16 are all listed as allowed) would pack each sample to one byte, but it might at that. 08:24:40 indexed images also have bit depth, so you can have 8-bit indexed with any palette size 08:24:41 maybe a DEFLATE quine could be converted into this kind of quine with some effort? 08:25:11 and also 1-, 2- and 4-bit indexed, according to e.g. wikipedia 08:27:54 -!- Punk has joined. 08:28:10 anyone alive in here? 08:28:39 do you know anything about the 'order of the ookpik'? it's a secret society one of my family members was in and i can't find any information about it ANYWHERE 08:28:50 olsner: You can, but it doesn't help: the palette indices in the actual image are still 8 bits, no matter what. 08:28:54 olsner: "The sample depth is the same as the bit depth except in the case of indexed-colour PNG images (colour type 3), in which the sample depth is always 8 bits (see 4.4: PNG image)." 08:29:16 oh, great 08:29:21 ?? 08:29:53 although the article i read said it used the same LZW that pkzip uses 08:30:02 which i think != LZ77? 08:30:05 olsner: Or, actually, I guess the sample depth refers to the palette entries, which would make sense. 08:30:24 LZW != LZ77, correct 08:30:43 i've managed to make a .gif reader and a .gz (DEFLATE) extractor 08:30:52 so i know the algorithms 08:31:29 Anyway, for this particular 61x61 black-and-white image, the PNG is 617 bytes while the corresponding .bmp is 550; a bit rare to see BMP beat PNG in a size comparison. 08:31:42 LOL it's SOOO esoteric in here 08:31:44 GreaseMonkey: create a file that compresses to itself when using the same compression scheme as PNG 08:32:03 can anyone refer me to a channel that might be able to help my inquiry? 08:32:09 i'm desperate for info here 08:32:11 quintopia: it's called droste.zip except it also contains a .jpg in it as well 08:32:16 Punk: sorry 08:32:38 i'd say it'd be hard since it's a *secret* society 08:32:57 well, there is a good deal of info on other small societies sprinkled online 08:33:04 even really tiny ones 08:33:08 GreaseMonkey: no we need it to just be itself 08:33:17 but i'll stop interrupting you guys 08:33:17 hmmkay... 08:33:21 not trying to be a pain 08:33:35 but if anyone can refer me to a channel that discusses these things i'd be really appreciative 08:33:41 we have no idea 08:33:43 honestly 08:33:55 We should probably find out, though; there are seekers for such things every now and then. 08:34:50 GreaseMonkey: also, we need to be able to stick *several* introns into it 08:35:03 what do you mean by introns? 08:35:12 #esoteric in DALnet has a topic of "Do you belive in faries and nature spirits?", which is... uh, closer? 08:35:25 yeah, Punk, try that 08:35:29 i do a google search for "order of the ookpik" and there is ONE result. one guy in a forum referencing th eorder i talk of 08:35:38 TYVM, i appreciate the help 08:36:15 GreaseMonkey: places where we can stick arbitrary data, and it will get output in the right place as well. 08:37:01 actually, it may be enough to have one intron at the beginning of the data and one at the end 08:37:32 so in other words you want a DEFLATE file which compresses down into itself? 08:37:35 -!- Horrible has joined. 08:37:48 erm 08:37:52 as in a .gz or something? 08:38:01 -!- Horrible has changed nick to Guest19720. 08:38:08 -!- Guest19720 has left (?). 08:38:18 does PNG really use DEFLATE? 08:38:23 yes 08:38:24 -!- Punk has left (?). 08:38:34 -!- Punk has joined. 08:38:40 http://www.steike.com/code/useless/zip-file-quine/ is such a thing then 08:38:42 PNG does do DEFLATE, but it also does all kinds of filters and rearrangements. 08:38:49 but i've seen a version of this that allows introns too 08:38:59 And a bigger problem is the (I think reasonably complicated) QR code encoding+error-correction scheme. 08:39:04 Anyway, away for now. 08:39:05 -!- Punk has left (?). 08:39:11 bye 08:39:20 i think Punk can't figure out how to connect to dalnet... 08:39:21 -!- Punk has joined. 08:39:37 Punk: having trouble getting to DALnet? 08:39:37 -!- Punk has left (?). 08:39:56 -!- Punk has joined. 08:40:06 the QR encoding's overhead should give you some kind of bound on how well the resulting image must compress with deflate 08:40:16 -!- Punk has quit (Client Quit). 08:41:13 it's a lot of overhead 08:41:26 we may require the largest QRcode possible 08:44:19 oh yeah also: http://research.swtch.com/2010/03/zip-files-all-way-down.html 08:44:52 yeah i think that's the one that explains where introns go 09:01:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:02:13 also duncan's post here: http://research.swtch.com/2010/03/zip-files-all-way-down.html#comment-8411293207450220669 09:02:34 it would be interesting making a .zip which produces a .zip which produces its parent 09:04:56 hmm, actually, r.zip uses a "stored" block to begin with 09:05:58 ...and then another "stored" block 09:06:16 then a static huffman block 09:06:53 then another stored block 09:07:05 and another 09:07:39 back to static huffman 09:08:09 then stored again 09:08:22 then static huffman, part 2 09:08:26 well 09:08:27 part 3 09:09:00 and then stored, then static huffman, then some empty stored blocks 09:09:12 2 to be precise 09:09:19 then dynamic huffman 09:10:33 after that it seems there's another stored block 09:10:55 wait no it's not dynamic huffman it's just another stored block 09:11:05 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:11:13 then static huffman 09:11:41 there's quite a long static huffman one actually 09:12:26 -!- ais523 has joined. 09:12:47 ok i think i've missed a block somewhere 09:13:02 wait no it ends in a 6-byte stored block or something 09:13:08 yes that is definitely what it is 09:14:43 The QR code error correction might help a bit, too: you can freely mangle about 7% of the data-carrying bits of the image (at the lowest allowed error correction level == smallest overhead) without affecting the output bytes, so you could use that to make the bitmap more compressible. I don't have time to fiddle with this right now, though. 09:36:00 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:09:14 -!- Zuu has joined. 10:09:14 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 10:09:14 -!- Zuu has joined. 10:36:06 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:46:46 first snow this year already 11:00:09 you didn't have any in January? 11:14:48 ais523, err, this season then 11:15:52 none over here in the UK yet, but I wouldn't expect it as early as October 11:16:22 ais523, I wouldn't expect it this early here either 11:16:32 ais523, anyway, it seems to be melting now during the day. 11:16:45 but when I woke up this morning it was quite a bit of it 11:16:47 there was* 11:20:52 -!- Wamanuz2 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:21:17 -!- Wamanuz2 has joined. 11:23:01 -!- yorick has joined. 11:25:23 It was -4 degrees Celsius here this morning, and I think there was a little bit of something snow-like one day, but nothing that would have actually stayed on the ground. 11:32:09 fizzie, it is still on the ground here, but going fast 12:11:06 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 12:22:15 -!- ais523 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 12:22:37 -!- ais523 has joined. 12:29:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 13:32:56 -!- tombom has joined. 13:54:14 -!- elliott has joined. 13:55:15 17:57:32 Ew. There's a GNU Netcat. 13:55:16 yeah, it... no 13:55:20 18:00:31 Well, but, if it works, it works -- whatever netcat comes with Cygwin doesn't. 13:55:22 try the H's 13:56:02 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:12:31 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:13:33 -!- catseye has joined. 14:15:00 -!- storkbot has joined. 14:17:43 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 14:17:58 elliott: say hello to storkbot. e's running on Windows Vista, simply because that is so totally advisable, using a tiny netcat-alike I hacked together in Python, because cygwin's nc doesn't do -e properly. 14:18:46 5.1G. 14:19:09 18:00:31 Well, but, if it works, it works -- whatever netcat comes with Cygwin doesn't. 14:19:09 try the H's 14:19:12 Erm, 5.0G 14:19:14 pikhq: what's that? 14:19:23 elliott: Elephant's Dream, 1080p24, lossless. 14:19:30 pikhq: Just... 5 gigs? 14:19:34 elliott: it is hobbit netcat -- it looks like something about buffering on cygwin is off 14:19:39 At 65,473 kbps. 14:19:43 pikhq: But the small one was, you know. 14:19:45 Bigger than that! 14:19:54 (63 megabits per second) 14:19:55 catseye: everything about cygwin is off, it's awful 14:20:03 elliott: yup :) 14:20:06 catseye: I think *H*'s has native Windows support. 14:20:14 H != hobbit ? 14:20:15 elliott: The 480p one is 1.1G. 14:20:21 ok 14:20:23 catseye: *H* = hobbit 14:20:28 ok 14:20:30 oh wait 14:20:32 actually H* 14:20:34 or _H* i guess 14:20:37 "_H* 960320 v1.10 RELEASE -- happy spring!" 14:20:43 catseye: http://nc110.sourceforge.net/ is the archive of it 14:20:52 worth trying that tarball with a native compiler perhaps 14:20:56 thanks. well, need to be off to work, will continue l8r 14:21:01 catseye: lol americans 14:21:05 and their timezones 14:21:08 nc-dos: 14:21:08 @echo "DOS?! Maybe someday, but not now" 14:21:20 catseye: maybe not :D 14:21:27 gnu netcat is awful btw 14:21:38 catseye: http://www.hackosis.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/nc111nt.zip 14:21:39 Compression ratio of 15% for the 480p one, 24% for the 1080p one. 14:21:41 catseye: http://joncraton.org/files/nc111nt.zip 14:21:47 This is, frankly, *absurd* compression. 14:21:48 catseye: hobbit netcat 1.10 for winnt 14:22:00 Erm, sorry, unfair comparision. 14:22:04 pikhq: so if it was a feature film 14:22:07 let's see 14:22:13 elephant's dream is 10 min 54 sec i.e. 11 minutes 14:22:21 That was raw vs. compressed against PNG vs. compressed. 14:22:21 how long's a feature film these days pikhq? 120 minutes? 14:22:26 let's say 120 minutes or so 14:22:52 Sure. 14:23:07 pikhq: so a 1080p feature-length film at 24fps would be about 55 GiB. 14:23:09 that's, uh 14:23:11 that's pretty good. 14:23:29 pikhq: it, well, it wouldn't fit on a dual-layer blu-ray though 14:23:36 (only 50 GB... or GiB? Who knows?) 14:23:41 (Wikipedia is unclear.) 14:23:42 Okay, compression ratio of about 11%, actually. 14:23:49 [[The BDXL format supports 100GB and 128GB write-once discs[70][71] and 100GB rewritable discs for commercial applications. It was defined in June 2010. 14:23:49 BD-R 3.0 Format Specification (BDXL) defined a multi-layered recordable in BDAV format with the speed of 2X and 4X, capable of 100/128GB and usage of UDF2.5/2.6.[72] 14:23:49 BD-RE 4.0 Format Specification (BDXL) defined a multi-layered rewritable in BDAV with the speed of 2X and 4X, capable of 100GB and usage of UDF2.5 as file system.[73]]] 14:23:57 that... that would work. 14:24:13 pikhq: now what i'm waitin' for 14:24:14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc 14:24:15 elliott: (5 gigs from 46 gigs) 14:24:17 6 TB 14:24:51 pikhq: are you with me or what 14:24:54 pikhq: problem is, 14:25:01 pikhq: rather than perfect encoding, higher resolution helps more 14:25:03 and also masks encoding errors 14:25:07 so we won't see lossless discs 14:25:11 just lossy discs with insane resolution 14:25:16 So sad. 14:25:16 also that yields pixel density 14:25:21 pikhq: well not really 14:25:33 pikhq: a 4K lossy film will look way better than a 1080p lossless film 14:25:37 Though the compression ratio appears to improve as the resolution goes up. 14:25:38 if the lossy compression is good 14:25:43 well yeah 14:25:51 since one little bit of space tends not to be very detailed :P 14:26:03 elliott: Problem: compression tends to suck ass. Morons do Blu-ray and DVD encodes. 14:26:11 wait fuck 4K 14:26:13 I mean http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra_High_Definition_Television 14:26:29 pikhq: yeah well :P 14:26:33 pikhq: but seriously: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_Versatile_Disc 14:26:36 i want this disc. 14:26:39 :) 14:27:13 elliott: What's impressive is that you could stick this *lossless* 1080p24 on a DVD. 14:27:26 pikhq: yes, all ten minutes of it :P 14:27:31 Yes, but still. 14:27:32 pikhq: hmm 14:27:37 pikhq: what about non-disc media? 14:27:40 This is *far* better than I thought it would do. 14:27:48 pikhq: how small can external hard drives get :D 14:28:48 Sadly, my computer can't play this back in real-time. 14:29:12 yeah, the HVD is impressive in terms of physical compression of data 14:29:31 pikhq: huh? 14:29:34 but it has less decompressing to do! 14:29:39 admittedly your... 14:29:41 your disk :P 14:29:53 admittedly, we don't actually have a 6TB one in manufacturing yet 14:30:03 because it turns out making 6TB discs isn't exactly easy 14:30:26 Can do the 480p one just fine, though. 14:31:13 pikhq: Care to give me the 480p one? 14:31:21 pikhq: I guess it might take too long. 14:31:42 I'VE NEVER SEEN ELEPHANTS DREAM LOL 14:31:43 elliott: I've got to leave for class soon; I need to get ready. Sooo... Can you wait a few hours? 14:31:43 not that i want to 14:31:49 pikhq: Sure. 14:31:54 pikhq: It may be worth doing it overnight. :P 14:32:05 pikhq: Or... just give me the command-line flags and a link to their source files. 14:32:09 That would be faster. 14:32:33 elliott: Elephant's Dream, 1080p24, lossless. 14:32:35 *Elephants btw 14:32:53 http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/y4m/elephants_dream_480p24.y4m.xz , mencoder elephants_dream_480p24.y4m -ovc x264 -x264encopts qp=0:preset=slow -o elephants_dream_480p24.avi 14:33:04 FLACs for the audio available from http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/flac/ED/ 14:33:18 pikhq: that's it? 14:33:23 also, surely the preset shouldn't matter, if it's lossless? 14:33:33 pikhq: got bittorrent links? 14:33:38 No. 14:33:56 The preset also governs how well it compresses. 14:34:13 You get higher compression ratio with slower presets when doing lossless encode. 14:34:18 -!- cpressey has joined. 14:34:57 pikhq: Ah. 14:35:02 pikhq: How long does this take? :P 14:35:18 Maybe half an hour after you've got the source files. 14:35:26 Erm, no, faster than that... 14:35:34 I recall encoding in real-time, actually. 14:35:48 pikhq: Any convenient bittorrent links? 14:35:51 Nope! 14:36:30 pikhq: http://orange.blender.org/blog/first-european-hd-dvd-released-and-its-elephants-dream/ ho ho ho 14:36:36 pikhq: but wikipedia said they did torrentzzzz 14:36:39 :< 14:37:33 http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/y4m/elephants_dream_480p24.y4m.xz , mencoder elephants_dream_480p24.y4m -ovc x264 -x264encopts qp=0:preset=slow -o elephants_dream_480p24.avi 14:37:34 pikhq: avi :| 14:37:45 You can remux it afterwards. 14:37:46 H.265 in avi 14:37:48 you are an awful person 14:37:54 pikhq: can't you just output it to mkv? 14:38:04 Unsupported. 14:38:17 pikhq: fffffffff 14:38:24 as in it doesn't work or they like to pretend it doesn't? 14:38:35 It often breaks. 14:38:49 0% [ ] 5,844,530 840K/s eta 42m 52s 14:38:51 blearh 14:39:04 pikhq: http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/flac/ED/ which of these do i want? 14:39:06 all of them? 14:39:32 elliott: The stereo one, probably. 14:39:33 i see FLACs 14:39:38 pikhq: so, L and R? 14:39:40 what are they FLACs of pikhq? 14:39:40 or LS and RS? 14:39:42 S for stereo? 14:39:51 No, the stereo one. It's "stereo" for stereo. 14:40:01 Oh, wait, "St". 14:40:05 elliott: you want the "St" one 14:40:13 or L, R, and C mixed to left and right 14:40:23 (since Center usually contains the dialogue) 14:40:41 pikhq: Ohh. 14:40:44 I'm silly. 14:40:48 last thing i saw last night was Sgeo asking whether V8 was any good... i didn't have the opportunity to explain how it is linked to the Last Supper 14:40:51 pikhq: OK, easy way to mix that in? Just give it to mencoder? 14:40:53 elliott: Or you could wait until I'm willing to post a torrent so you could have a single 5.1 FLAC. 14:41:03 pikhq: That would be nice :P 14:41:10 cpressey: approve 14:41:11 elliott: -audiofile the_file_here 14:41:15 pikhq: thanks 14:41:32 elliott: BTW, most video players *won't* automatically mix that down to stereo audio. 14:41:42 will mplayer? 14:41:47 No. 14:45:16 I would just like to say that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_ICcz6kXP0. 14:45:27 pikhq: even if you tell it to? like as an option 14:50:27 -!- Harpyon has joined. 14:51:13 pikhq: ha! 14:51:20 pikhq: NAND flash is accelerating faster than Moore's law 14:51:28 "Due to its relatively simple structure and high demand for higher capacity, NAND flash memory is the most aggressively scaled technology among electronic devices. The heavy competition among the top few manufacturers only adds to the aggressiveness. Current projections show the technology to reach approximately 20 nm by around late 2011. While the expected shrink timeline is a factor of two every three years per original version of Moore's law, 14:51:28 this has recently been accelerated in the case of NAND flash to a factor of two every two years." 14:51:32 "The aggressive trend of process design rule shrinks in NAND Flash memory technology effectively accelerates Moore's Law." 14:51:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NAND_scaling_timeline.png 14:52:50 not a real law anyway, OK to accelerate it 14:53:10 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 14:56:59 pikhq: what are those FLACs? 14:57:06 cpressey: it's still cool 14:57:14 also: nice: http://www.ambiosonics.de/session26/STE001A.mp3 14:58:27 http://www.ambiosonics.de/session26/STE001B.mp3 14:59:57 "Ed, I know I've only been around now and again - the family and work come first! - but I have the real inside scoop on an atheist meeting in the UK. Some really big names, some really shocking talks." -- Conservapedia 15:00:03 OMG THEY FOUND OUR COVEN 15:01:51 pikhq: it's OK to answer my question 15:14:03 cpressey: "In our HTML version of last week's SNCJ, we noted that Iowa had ended their fiscal year with a $755 budget surplus. This was supposed to say $755 million. We regret the error." 15:15:56 elliott: You can use "-af hrtf" to do a headphone-optimized multichannel-to-stereo with spatiality; or you can use "-af pan=[suitable options]" to manually mix the channels however you wish. (I think the default routing indeed is just to truncate the 'extra' channels.) 15:16:26 fizzie: Can you just do "mix everything on the left side to left, everything on the right to right, and centre at 50% volume in both channels"? 15:16:33 Well, plus some scaling for typical distances to those speakers. 15:18:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 15:18:06 Manually with pan, sure; I'm not sure if there's a default for that. 15:18:16 Or I could just use the stereo file. :P 15:18:33 The hrtf trick is nice for headphones, though. 15:19:32 Wow, that uncompressed 3D animation is some schweet-looking shit. 15:19:46 Must be amazing in 1080p. 15:20:17 Some of the codecs might also do more or less sensible downmixing; the -channels N option says "In that case [of AC-3 multichannel stuff] liba52 does the decoding by default and correctly downmixes the audio into the requested number of channels." 15:20:47 Probably flac-decoding won't do anything clever. 15:21:34 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 15:22:55 -!- nooga has joined. 15:28:18 "“Not Privileged”…God is a GEOCENTRIC Creator, because He is at the 15:28:18 ‘center of all things’, including His universe, and whilst He is also the 15:28:18 WORD, His written Word (Holy Scripture) is therefore GEOCENTRIC as 15:28:18 well, being the ‘center of all truth’ written, and if we (The Earth) are 15:28:18 the Lord’s “footstool”, then it is logical for the Earth to be 15:28:19 GECENTRICIALLY located at the ‘center of the universe’ beneath His 15:28:21 Throne." 15:28:23 it, uh, goes on. 15:30:39 elliott: I think PulseAudio will mix things down for you automagically, though. (At least if I mplayer a 5.1 FLAC file, I get six per-app volume control sliders, and output to a two-channel sink. (But I couldn't begin to guess how well it does that, and whether it just discards channels.) 15:30:48 fizzie: Yeah, uh, PulseAudio. 15:30:52 I sort of removed that. 15:30:59 After HRRRRRRRNG 15:31:01 Ah, you did that already. Never mind, then. 15:31:13 fizzie: It's a peaceful life now, without graphical volume controls as it is. 15:31:51 You're missing out on Ubuntu 10.10.10.10.10's "control your music player via the volume control" thing. (Not that I've even seen it, but it was advertised as a hot new feature.) 15:32:25 fizzie: Yeah, I ... don't use Rhythmbox. 15:32:51 Yes, I saw that; you were using your Spherecubes or whatevers. 15:33:17 Spherecube xD 15:33:25 fizzie: Currently I'm... "between music players". 15:33:59 It's good to take a break; it wouldn't be fair to the next one if it were just a rebound music player. 15:34:59 fizzie: My last music player cheated on me with another guy. I'm a monogamous software user; I refuse to use any program unless I'm the only user. 15:35:11 88.2 kHz, huh. I wasn't aware people actually use that. 15:35:27 fizzie: That... what. 15:35:34 pikhq will now yell at whoever did that. 15:36:16 "Personally, I hear a huge difference when tracking at higher sample rates like 96kHz, and the detail is stunning, but once you convert to 44.1kHz (CD quality) the detail you had captured disappears." -- ah, quack audiophiles. 15:36:21 http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-downloads-testfiles.aspx -- the first place I found a 5.1 FLAC sample from. 15:37:02 fizzie: "*Please note: Currently no 5.1 files are available for download." 15:37:02 wut? 15:37:10 downloads for me! 15:37:12 oh they mean 15:37:15 they're not sellin' any 15:37:16 right 15:37:18 I think it means "files other than this sample here", yes. 15:37:31 http://bleep.com/ switched from FLAC to WAV a while ago and this saddens me. 15:39:05 There's also a 192 kHz stereo sample, but that's not surprising; I just thought the whole 11.025/22.05/44.1 sequence stopped there, and everyone going higher went 48/96/192, not to 88.2 (and presumably to 176.4 kHz next). 15:39:31 apparently people do 88.2 so that downconversion to 44.1 is easier 15:39:35 lol hysterical raisins. 15:41:36 FLAC "supports linear sample rates from 1Hz - 655350Hz in 1Hz increments" -- isn't that a bit strange limit too? I could sort-of see 10 Hz .. 65535 Hz with a two-byte field or something, but they explicitly say it's a 1 Hz increment. 15:41:55 fizzie: Maybe there's, like, overhead in each little... sample bit. 15:42:07 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: Harpyon). 15:42:07 So that going any higher would mean there's no room and you'd have to split it across two thingies? 15:42:08 I don't know. 15:44:18 It really is 1Hz-655350Hz in 1Hz increments. 15:44:21 -!- Harpyon has joined. 15:44:32 Yeah. 15:44:34 I'm saying that: 15:44:56 Perhaps 655351 would push some sort of periodic header over a limit causing it to be split and... I really don't know. 15:44:58 I'm guessing wildly! 15:45:50 Fun things to do: Read "learn English" forums. 15:45:51 [[Am I on the right track? Are you a train? 15:45:52 Oh, another idiom! Yes you are!]] 15:46:17 lol 15:47:14 The field itself would go to 1048575Hz, but apparently other things break if it would be larger than 655350Hz. 15:58:44 "Scotland is a prime example of what happens in societies which adopt the anti Biblical atheistic philosophy of evolution." 16:02:06 what's wrong with scotland? 16:02:50 Nothing at all, that's why it's so amusing. 16:02:58 Picking on Scotland as a prime example of society's depravity. 16:05:33 -!- antivigilante has joined. 16:06:02 total 9.1G 16:06:02 -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 7.5G 2010-10-22 16:05 elephants_dream_480p24.y4m 16:06:02 -rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 1.6G 2010-02-07 19:17 elephants_dream_480p24.y4m.xz 16:06:03 Yikes. 16:27:46 $ mencoder elephants_dream_480p24.y4m -audiofile ED-CM-St-16bit.flac -of lavf -ovc x264 -x264encopts qp=0:preset=slow -o elephants_dream_480p24.mkv 16:27:51 Whoops, I need -oac copy. 16:28:06 Audio format 0x43614c66 is incompatible with '-oac copy', please try '-oac pcm' instead or use '-fafmttag' to override it. 16:28:06 heh 16:32:16 * elliott just creates a pure video to remux later 16:32:17 in avi 16:49:38 i have a sudden urge to write iterators which yield further iterators in an unbounded sequence and then iterate them in some general recursive way hey Phantom_Hoover hasn't been here much recently has he oh well time for more coffee I guess 16:54:17 -!- augur has joined. 16:54:50 cpressey: what... time is it 16:55:18 "Umm, Saddest Turtle, I think I'm goingt o hang out with your cousin instead of you today. Also, all days." --Buttersafe 16:55:22 *going to 16:56:37 elliott: HAMMER TIME! 16:56:45 cpressey: no but the time 16:56:58 um, almost 11AM here. 16:57:07 cpressey: i prescribe coffee 16:57:12 or pure caffeine 16:58:00 the recursive iterator thing isn't actually that interesting 16:58:22 except maybe if the language implementation breaks in interesting ways if you stress it 16:58:44 -!- antivigilante has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 17:03:17 Video stream: 14317.289 kbit/s 17:03:18 NOT BAD 17:05:03 -!- evincar has joined. 17:06:23 Ahoy. 17:07:19 -!- mycroftiv has changed nick to MYCROFTIV. 17:15:28 MYCROFTIV SURE IS SHOUTING 17:15:35 evincar sure is of autumn (did i remember your name right) 17:15:50 IVE BEEN TOLD ITS INTERNATIONAL CAPS LOCK DAY 17:15:52 You sure did. 17:16:11 MYCROFTIV: ARE YOU STILL A PLAN 9 WEENIE 17:16:14 (IN CAPITALS) 17:16:20 SO FOR TODAY WRITE ALL CODE IN OLD FORTRAN AND 80S BASIC - AND YES I AM 17:16:32 MYCROFTIV: PROTIP IF YOU HOLD DOWN SHIFT you can type normally. 17:16:37 MYCROFTIV: It's not Billy Mays Day. 17:17:04 BILLY MAYS DAY WAS MERGED WITH COCAINE DAY RECENTLY 17:17:27 Oh, no, you're right, caps lock day it is. 17:18:16 WHY IS THERE TWO INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAYS 17:20:07 anyone know if FLAC has an AVI audio format tag? >_> 17:23:40 No idea. What are you trying to do? 17:23:47 What pikhq did. 17:23:49 :P 17:23:59 evincar: We're playing around with lossless HD video. 17:30:12 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:30:19 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:49 OH GREAT 17:35:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 17:43:34 -!- webquint has joined. 17:44:01 YAY FOR DAYS 17:44:06 cpressey: wat 17:44:18 INTERNATIONAL DAYS OF THINSG 17:44:22 *THINGS 17:44:42 ALSO YAY FOR AWARENESS MONTHS 17:44:54 THEY ALLOW ME TO BE AWARE OF TWELVE THINGS A YEAR 17:45:39 :D 17:49:03 cpressey: BUT THE MONTHS ARE MULTIPURPOSE!!!! :D 17:49:16 elliott: so, who're you doing? 17:49:21 webquint: i, encoding. 17:49:25 I, Encoder 17:51:29 -!- storkbot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:52:03 -!- catseye has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:52:52 nice, colordiff seems to come with cdiff now 17:53:01 maybe it has for a while and i never noticed 17:57:04 yay my battery broke 17:58:11 cpressey, hm cdiff seems cool. Always loved colordiff of course 17:58:49 coppro: THINKPAD ENGINEERING 17:58:57 elliott: I mean actually yay 17:59:02 I get a new free battery with full life 17:59:05 heh 17:59:08 coppro: ...this is what's wrong with everything 17:59:14 coppro, broke in what way? mechanical? 17:59:22 Vorpal: probably the controller broke 17:59:39 in any case, it doesn't charge/discharge, though it reports that it has 67% charge 17:59:42 * coppro facepalms 17:59:48 coppro, be glad it isn't a mac, then you would have to send it in to get the battery replaced 17:59:49 "Apple is deprecating its support for Java on Mac OS X" 17:59:50 hee hee 18:00:20 double awesome: the tech shop on campus is a Lenovo shop too 18:00:30 elliott, wait, apple supports java? As opposed to sun or more recently oracle? 18:01:14 elliott: dollars to donuts it has to do with the mac store 18:02:06 coppro, is this some new thing separate from the normal apple retail stores? 18:02:52 Vorpal: yes, it's an app store, except for mac 18:04:45 coppro, ouch 18:05:24 Vorpal: I smell that Java apps may not be permitted on it 18:06:22 -!- Harpyon has quit (Quit: SCREW YOU ALL). 18:06:59 (this is both the worst and the best thing to come to desktop computing) 18:07:11 (and also about time) 18:07:17 coppro, how so? 18:08:11 as in, what makes you say "the best thing" 18:08:18 worst I can easily see yes 18:08:23 Vorpal: Because package management for Linux has existed for a long time and it's awesome. It's logical to commercialize it with the OS (it's already been done externally, e.g. Steam). Unfortunately, standard "fucking Apple and their control" applies 18:09:36 coppro, hm, it does dependency stuff and such? 18:10:17 OMG: arin|US|ipv4|50.128.0.0|8388608|20101021|allocated 18:10:19 coppro, my experience of closed source is that even for linux such tends to bundle about every library that it can rather than using those already installed on the system. Exception would be libc 18:10:31 -!- jcp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:11:00 Ilari, why OMG at that allocation? 18:11:26 also where is the netmask 18:12:16 Vorpal: I would butVorwn. I ipackasne sul he librarie yone cciple is always good Alse rprising,do and AAPL and one of them is retarded. 18:12:25 /9 (!) 18:12:49 http://farm1.static.flickr.com/36/114732870_bab0bdae2c_b.jpg 18:12:51 And look at the date... 18:12:52 coppro, err? "I would [007F][007F][007F]butVorwn" 18:12:53 what 18:13:07 Vorpal: I would butVorwn. I ipackasne sul he librarie yone cciple is always good Alse rprising,do and AAPL and one of them is retarded. 18:13:08 i... yes 18:13:26 So /9 allocated yesterday... 18:13:39 oh right I see. some sort of drop-letters encoding 18:13:47 don't have time to decrypt it right now, food is ready 18:14:08 Ilari: /9?? 18:14:11 Ilari: how big is that ?! 18:14:18 8Mi addresses. 18:14:20 ? ?! ?! ! ?! ?!!!! ?!? ? ? ! 18:14:30 Ilari: that's... that's big, why are we allocating that much 18:14:57 No idea... 18:15:02 -!- elliott has left (?). 18:15:04 -!- elliott has joined. 18:16:09 -!- jcp has joined. 18:16:26 This IPv4 depletion tool says that ARIN would request and get 2 /8s from IANA at any time. 18:18:19 Vorpal: I apologize, my computer crashed 18:18:31 Vorpal: it's good because it was going to happen, and thus it is better sooner than later 18:18:41 Which is a surprise. Don't know if it takes that almost-/8s released back into account... 18:18:52 coppro, oh heh 18:18:55 also, it almost certainly won't do dependencies, because all the applications on there will probably depend only on system libraries 18:19:02 coppro, why was it going to crash? 18:19:45 Vorpal: seriously, think about it. We've seen commercial platforms before, like Steam. Integrating them into the OS is the next logical step, and MSFT is retarded, leaving it to AAPL, the only other significant commercial operating system company. 18:19:58 Vorpal: no, my computer did crash 18:20:13 Probably not, as 45/8 completely marked as assigned. 18:20:59 coppro, running what OS? 18:21:08 Vorpal: linux 18:21:20 I think it was the wireless driver running out of memory that did it 18:21:26 coppro, huh, never seen linux crash in any way leading to "butVorwn. I ipackasne sul he librarie yone cciple is always good Alse rprising,do and AAPL and one of them is retarded." 18:21:33 Vorpal: OOM 18:21:38 sort of broke the input stream 18:21:40 Worst case scenario would be the "run on the bank" scenario. Would result quick exhaustion of IANA pool. 18:21:55 and then the wireless driver (based on what flashed on my screen before it died) probably failed 18:23:07 coppro, hm okay. still seems like an implausible result. "not sending a garbled string" seems a more likely outcome. Or just sending completely random data. That line still looked like words and so on, just not actually existing words 18:23:15 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:23:30 Vorpal: I assure you I attempted to type something and that the result was a subset of what I attempted to type 18:23:37 apparently the enter key made it too 18:23:41 coppro, ah, that makes some sense 18:23:57 coppro, out of order or just dropped chars? 18:24:03 Vorpal: dropped chars 18:26:43 Someone who is familar with WHOIS could look up who grabbed that /9... 18:27:20 what linux needs (because dropping overcommitting of memory is going to break too many things that depends on it) is some sort of memory reservations for critical programs. Like if syslog is pid X you could say "pid X must be able to allocate up to Y MB, swapping to do so is okay". This differs from mlock() since that would forbid swapping as well 18:27:58 Ilari, comcast 18:28:01 it seems 18:28:28 How did I feel it was some large ISP... 18:28:30 Ilari, anyway just "whois 50.128.0.0/9" in the terminal worked. 18:28:38 though it did complain a bit: 18:28:40 # Query terms are ambiguous. The query is assumed to be: 18:28:40 # "n 50.128.0.0" 18:28:51 (which was indeed the correct interpretation) 18:31:55 coppro, what were you doing that caused the OOM btw? 18:32:23 21:53:21 What's V8 like? 18:32:24 VP8. 18:33:40 21:55:14 ...Lossless encode from 48GB to 6GB? 18:33:41 21:58:14 What's the bitrate/ 18:33:41 21:58:33 Sgeo: Currently, 73,000 kbps. 18:33:41 21:59:15 Wait, that's a bad thing for streaming 18:33:53 "I don't just want reasonably-sized lossless 1080p encodes; I want to watch them on YouTube!" 18:33:58 21:59:54 Higher means more bandwidth needed for the same amount of time, right? 18:33:59 >_< 18:35:00 I MAKE FRACTALZ 18:35:10 *u* 18:35:43 22:21:34 quintopia: I don't believe that........ Make a proper game. 18:35:44 or ELSE 18:37:20 THEN 18:37:22 IF 18:37:55 I THINK THAT CREATORS OF BASH HAVE TOO MUCH SENSE OF HUMOUR 18:38:01 CASE ... ESAC 18:38:09 ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu 18:39:20 * elliott kills nooga 18:40:33 FOR WHAT? 18:40:51 esac! 18:40:58 EGG SACK 18:41:25 CASE ... MUTORCS 18:41:25 And that 8M block isn't the only one this week... There seems to be at least 2.5M of other allocations, pushing allocations from ARIN this week to over 10M addresses... 18:42:49 HUNLOP 18:48:31 Ilari: so are they trying to use up ipv6 as quickly as they did ipv4? 18:48:34 nooga: FI FI, THAT'S NOT SO OD 18:49:51 The IPv6 IANA pool is at 99%... That's going to take a while. Dunno how long the IPv4 pool lasts... 18:51:30 DO .. DONE 18:51:44 WHERE'S THE LOGIC? 18:53:15 oh yeah it is like that isn't it 18:54:04 it inherited esac and fi from sh, i'm pretty sure 18:54:23 and i know I've seen do ... od *somewhere* 18:54:35 although, that *somewhere* might be Draco 18:55:45 elliott: I have gone back and forth on this, but I have decided that at present, I cannot handle Ruby. 18:55:54 cpressey: What tipped you over the edge? 18:56:45 why 18:56:48 elliott: Ehh... two things, sort of: contemplating writing my netcat replacement in it and looking at its libraries; and, uh, that what it calls "metaprogramming". 18:57:03 But also everything else about it. 18:57:06 cpressey: Its networking libraries are actually really nice, compared to Python. 18:57:14 Its other libraries are... actually they're good, but the documentation is lacking. 18:57:17 Severely lacking. 18:57:34 I could not figure out how to change or set the buffering on the IO object. Which has Ruby-level and system-level buffering. 18:57:38 cpressey: The metaprogramming... ok, yes, you can do any damn thing you want to a class at any point. BUT SANE PEOPLE HATE YOU DOING THIS 18:57:41 Oh, that's just one method 18:57:43 * elliott looks it up 18:57:46 s/the IO/an IO/ 18:57:48 (while since I Rubied) 18:58:27 it seemed to be that you are not a "real" Ruby programmer until you have metaprogrammed BECAUSE IT IS POWER POOOOOWWWWEEEEEERRRRRRRRR well ok 18:58:35 cpressey: Actually no. 18:58:42 just getting that impression from some jerkass, probably 18:58:49 * elliott digs up that old post 18:58:51 cpressey: you talked to someone? 18:58:55 omg you totally didn't listen to me 18:58:59 listen 18:58:59 no, someone's site or blog or something 18:59:01 carefully 18:59:04 ? 18:59:05 cpressey: western rubyists 18:59:07 deserve to die 18:59:09 every single one of them 18:59:11 oh that part 18:59:16 apart from... people in here :P 18:59:24 ok yes. 18:59:25 who's a western rubyist? 18:59:29 this was one of these people i suppose. 18:59:34 i don't like fanboys 18:59:35 nooga: non-japanese rubyists. 19:00:19 cpressey: sec 19:00:23 Still, even aside from those two points... it's just... really gnarly tangly and turns me off, AT PRESENT. Tomorrow, I may like it again. 19:00:31 that say "YEAH I CAN CODE *RUBY*, I DID SEVERAL RAILS 2.X APPS, I'M SO RAD, GTFO WITH YOUR COMPUTER SCIENCE" 19:00:36 cpressey: http://sprunge.us/afWK 19:00:38 I THINK THAT CREATORS OF BASH HAVE TOO MUCH SENSE OF HUMOUR <-- fi you say so :P 19:00:46 cpressey: here is what sane people think about metaprogramming (zed shaw is no longer sane, but that's irrelevant) 19:00:49 or well 19:00:52 the abuse of ruby metaprogramming 19:00:52 AND THEY STATE THAT THEY EARN SHITLOADS OF $ 19:00:58 the rafb links don't work but 19:01:07 cpressey: the first one basically opened a class in the standard ruby logger 19:01:10 and yanked out all formatting 19:01:16 replacing it with a message that ignored all custom formatting 19:01:19 and just printed out the message 19:01:45 cpressey: that's from ruby-talk 19:01:51 "What's wrong with you people?" 19:01:53 (which is now terrible) 19:02:07 cpressey: to be honest... using ruby was awesome as fuck in 2005. 19:02:13 nobody had raped the metaprogramming to death yet 19:02:17 i think that one question explains a hell of a lot about most software and languages 19:02:19 DHH was just some asswipe with some upstart new web framework 19:02:21 well not explains, but 19:02:21 let's wait for monkey patching in 2.0 19:02:25 why the lucky stiff was at full steam 19:02:29 and made everything wonderful 19:02:35 and everyone still abided by Matz Is Nice So We Are Nice 19:02:39 _why <3 19:02:53 why <3 :( missed 19:03:16 cpressey: now, using ruby is probably awesome if you're in japan. and speak japanese. 19:03:25 and ignore everyone outside the country when it comes to ruby 19:03:33 why? 19:03:38 nooga: as far as i can tell the communities are basically entirely split 19:03:44 between the native ruby community and "everyone else" 19:03:44 ah 19:03:48 and the latter has been infected by douchebags 19:03:49 if you are in japan and speak japanese, you missed out on perl, i bet 19:03:55 and is now the butt of just about any joke. 19:03:59 so ruby is your perl and that's kind of cool 19:04:07 cpressey: ruby is definitely a nicer perl than perl is 19:04:13 elliott: agreed 19:04:14 yes 19:04:15 elliott, ugh about "http://sprunge.us/afWK", does "re-opening a class" mean what I think? 19:04:15 agreed 19:04:18 perl - some of the most heinous insanity + smalltalk object system! 19:04:27 if so: yeargh! 19:04:39 but Larry Wall is so cool 19:05:01 nooga: i dunno, i'm not down with the let's-invent-a-language-so-that-we-can-give-this-native-culture-CHRISTIANITY! shit 19:05:03 compared to GvR 19:05:07 oh agreed 19:05:10 but personally :P 19:05:13 :D 19:05:18 (matz is a mormon missionary! ...but i don't think they invent languages to translate the bible into, generally) 19:05:20 well was 19:05:35 cpressey: seriously what language do people use? 19:05:43 like if they're not using haskell, or python, or ruby, or perl 19:05:48 and they want a scripting language i.e. not C 19:05:50 it would seem appropriate somehow if guido was one of those obnoxious atheist types 19:05:50 and they're sane 19:05:51 WHAT DO THEY DO 19:05:56 cpressey: he is! 19:05:59 well not hideously obnoxious 19:06:01 but he is an atheist 19:06:01 elliott: oh goody 19:06:09 i'm an obnoxious atheist type! well sort of. 19:06:15 They script with PHP, of course. 19:06:20 ;D 19:06:23 i just don't talk to religious people usually :P 19:06:27 elliott: WHAT DO THEY DO? they use one of those you listed. 19:06:31 cpressey: which 19:06:32 WHICH 19:06:36 PHP IS THE WORST LANGUAGE EVER. PERIOD 19:06:49 elliott: THEY DO NOT DISTINGUISH 19:06:51 well no 19:06:55 nooga: immediately came up with an argument but... it had a placeholder for [language worse than PHP] and... 19:06:57 but you know what i mean 19:06:59 couldn't find a value 19:07:00 or you don't 19:07:00 i agree. 19:07:05 cpressey: i don't. 19:07:26 PHP is the worst language ever! 19:07:33 PHP is the worst language ever! 19:07:36 Exclamation mark! 19:07:51 elliott: most people do not have sufficient capacity to understand why technical things are good/bad, for them to be capable of making any critical distinction between those three languages. 19:08:03 cpressey: i said sane people. 19:08:06 also people who program 19:08:11 THERE ARE NO SANE PEOPLE HAHAHAHAHA 19:08:14 um 19:08:17 well 19:08:23 see, they do what we do 19:08:30 yes but then 19:08:32 then what do they do 19:08:33 they go "ARGH this sucks, what do people USE?" 19:08:34 after they do what we do 19:08:36 but seriously 19:08:43 kill themselves? 19:08:47 sane people are boring! 19:08:59 yorick: i just meant non-stupid people really 19:09:05 they invent their own language and then they kill themselves 19:09:08 ok no 19:09:08 oh 19:09:10 doesn't work. 19:09:22 they go insane? 19:09:28 they give up? 19:09:36 OMG PYTHON RAWKS 19:09:37 they use python. 19:09:39 yorick: i could swear that we've met on IRC several years ago 19:09:47 nooga: we haven't, probably 19:09:59 they get a lobotomy so they can enjoy PHP. 19:10:00 and you worked on Open Tibia then ;D 19:10:14 nooga: I haven't, at least not that I know of 19:10:22 well 19:10:38 is yorick a common name in a place where you live? 19:10:40 someone else must have stolen my name before I was using it 19:10:41 I am fully in favour of inventing new languages, but, research and production are two different thigns, and *genuine* improvements come hard. 19:10:42 what is it with russian people and tibia -- note: nooga is russian for the purpose of this line 19:11:02 i don't know 19:11:16 nooga: it has an occurence of 0.0148% 19:11:21 mh 19:11:51 Привет! 19:11:55 yuck 19:12:17 elliott: Have you ever heard of Merd or Felix? 19:12:18 they should finally get themselves some normal alphabet 19:12:25 cpressey: I posted merd to reddit a while back. 19:12:32 cpressey: I WOULD TOTALLY USE THE FUCK OUT OF MERD. It is a dead project. 19:12:36 Can't find creator on Google. Wept. 19:12:42 cpressey: Felix? 19:12:55 "The smart upgrade from C++" oh i am totally sold. 19:13:03 i have 19:13:06 heard of this i think 19:13:08 that's like google go! 19:13:10 cpressey: oh joy, the code looks like python. 19:13:12 exactly. like p- 19:13:12 oh no 19:13:16 that's a python section of a plugin thing 19:13:16 lol 19:13:17 My main exposure to Felix is the time irs creator came on the Lua mailing lists and wouldn't shut up about GC. 19:13:25 what about merd? 19:13:31 It seems to have some good features but is somewhat Falcon-like in its EVERYTHINGNESS 19:13:34 merd 19:13:36 i like it 19:13:42 cpressey: what, merd? 19:13:47 it's actually relatively coherently-designed 19:13:48 Merd seems good but too unusual in some respects to ever catch on. 19:13:51 it's just that a lot of the features interact. 19:13:51 elliott: no, felxi. 19:13:52 oh felix 19:13:53 i see 19:13:57 cpressey: ehh 19:14:00 *FLEXISLEJDN A AHSOPHO HOED 19:14:01 merd could be basically like a regular pl 19:14:04 for normal usage 19:14:11 half of the work was basically to make dynamic stuff just work 19:14:24 elliott: the spaces-influence-precedence thing is just too weird. plus, being named after shit, is not great marketing. 19:14:31 cpressey: ok the first one 19:14:34 static typing with polymorphism! 19:14:35 that is literally one line in the feature list 19:14:40 get over it, it's nowhere near certain :P 19:14:43 and the examples don't use it 19:14:47 cpressey: also you can always rename a language 19:14:58 I think felix basically IS python 19:15:05 -!- zzo38 has joined. 19:15:06 yorick: it has header files. 19:15:08 \tt\def\1{\catcode92=12\catcode123=12\catcode125=12\input\jobname\end}\1 19:15:08 they stole the syntax 19:15:09 doesn't look like it. 19:15:11 yorick: no 19:15:12 yorick: wrong page 19:15:14 click another link 19:15:16 and see actual felix code 19:15:18 elliott: then someone should fork merd and rename it, and we'd be talking about a different language :) 19:15:21 rather than python code in the benchmark stuff :P 19:15:27 cpressey: have fun with that 19:15:40 elliott: no no, i'm a-gonna design me OWN 19:15:50 cpressey: DO IT 19:15:52 (i will have fun with that too though) 19:16:00 EW 19:16:08 elliott: that's even worse :D 19:16:12 -!- augur has joined. 19:16:27 yeah, also Felix is far too C++-associated 19:16:46 print "blah"; endl; 19:16:55 python just does print "blah" 19:16:57 and that works fine 19:17:05 yorick: except when it doesn't. 19:17:15 elliott: then you use print "blah", 19:17:16 C++ endl 19:17:20 yorick: that appends a space 19:17:25 don't want that? sys.stdout.write WOOOOOT 19:17:29 elliott: then you use sys.stdout.write 19:17:37 yorick: fuck python. 19:17:39 no seriously. 19:17:40 shitty language. 19:17:57 |env|.moo{3=4}; 19:18:31 ew 19:18:34 ewewewewew 19:18:50 cpressey: wait what does that do :D 19:18:54 yorick: #python is that way -> 19:19:16 elliott: you mean the Twisted channel :P 19:19:18 elliott: I AM MAKING SHIT UP 19:19:29 i am the fungot of language syntax 19:19:29 cpressey: or emacs-style editor i'd like to print "" array pointer "" array pointer. woof. 19:19:33 yorick: twisted? 19:19:36 great, even worse 19:19:41 twisted is awful. 19:19:45 it is 19:20:12 I have to append "without using twisted" to my python questions nowadays to not get the answer "use twisted" 19:20:17 now I get "use twisted anyways" 19:20:23 See if you can understand this TeX code: \tt\def\1{\catcode92=12\catcode123=12\catcode125=12\input\jobname\end}\1 19:20:23 i should write something in it someday so i can hate it first-hand 19:20:55 -!- webquint has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 19:21:19 cpressey: That is probably the best way to hate it I think you are correct 19:21:24 yorick: #python is the worst channel ever 19:21:43 sryously, what channel has "NO LOL" in its topic 19:21:45 non-networking-related question: "How do I do this?" "Don't do that." "I want to do that." "Don't." "What should I do instead then?" "Nothing. Kill yourself." 19:22:13 networking-related question: "How do I-" "Use Twisted." "But-" "Use Twisted." "My question i-" "Use Twisted." "I'M USING TWISTED?" "No problem then." "Actually I'm not." "Use Twisted." "FUCK YOU" 19:22:15 i've seen them take down lollers before, too. 19:22:40 lol :) 19:23:29 Do you understand this TeX code? 19:23:48 it looks like it does something evil 19:24:21 yorick: Do you mean, the TeX code? 19:24:35 zzo38: I do mean, the TeX code. 19:24:47 yorick: What do you think it does? 19:24:58 (At first, without executing it) 19:26:28 zzo38: I think it formats stuff as postscript :) 19:27:01 yorick: No. (Postscript is done by separate programs if needed) 19:27:21 then no idea 19:28:18 Try it then. And then once you see what it does, try to figure out how it works. 19:28:26 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:29:13 zzo38: no. why 19:29:37 Tip: if your project is a library for programmers, example code on front page of project website please. 19:30:46 cpressey: I think that would scare people away 19:31:20 -!- sftp has joined. 19:31:25 yorick: I will tell you. That TeX code typesets its own code. 19:31:34 cpressey: I suppose that can help sometimes. 19:32:34 (It isn't a true quine, because it uses file input) 19:33:12 Dear websites/Opera: Stop making it so that Opera keeps thinking that something changed in your tab 19:35:35 Sgeo: Do you know what is causing it? 19:35:48 Probably some AJAXy stuff 19:35:52 I have no idea 19:36:50 The @{ ... @} command in Enhanced CWEB acts kind of like the \[ ... \] in Falcon. The @{ ... @} are typeset as $\langle\!\{$ ... $\}\!\rangle$ 19:37:28 And if a function xyzabc$() is defined inside of a @{ ... @} block, then whenever the identifier 'xyzabc' is encountered it will call that function 19:38:05 Vorpal: I accidentally make -j 45 19:39:07 which is a 100% chance of an OOM on such a huge project, because the link steps are massive and so every thread gets hung up linking a number of independent libraries and eating up all available memory 19:40:10 coppro: Then cancel it? 19:40:49 zzo38: that requires getting the computer to respond to the cancel 19:40:57 (I actually tried the OOM killer, but that didn't work :/) 19:41:49 coppro, heh 19:42:55 alt-sysrq-f should save my computer, dammit 19:43:47 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Error: Unable to display error message.). 19:44:16 coppro: what's f again? 19:45:10 elliott: invoke oom killer 19:45:16 coppro: oh joy 19:45:19 (mnemonic: memory [f]ull) 19:45:23 Tip: if your project is a library for programmers, example code on front page of project website please. 19:45:27 which library didn't? 19:45:29 cpressey: I think that would scare people away ;; LOL 19:45:38 "I'm a programmer looking for a library but code -- NO" 19:45:42 tip: if you do an unrecognized sysrq, it prints a small guide 19:45:55 coppro: only if your display is working, i imagine 19:46:20 coppro: i can't seem to make that happen 19:46:34 elliott: well, you actually have to make it to a vt to get that since it won't work if X has the screen 19:46:42 coppro: yeaaaaaaaah not that easy 19:46:56 but since the vt switch is in the kernel, that should usually be possible if it's a true oom and not a kernel hang 19:47:02 (it may take a little while, though) 19:49:43 * pikhq returneth 19:50:11 pikhq, you're of type ()? 19:50:25 Actually, that diesn't quite make sense 19:50:29 *doesn't 19:52:06 Sgeo: it makes no sense 19:52:12 -!- antivigilante has joined. 19:52:43 It was supposed to be since pikhq is returning but not returning anything. Then I started thinking in terms of Haskell. But there, return means something utterly different 19:55:37 Clearly I'm of type m () for some monad m. 20:01:51 cpressey: pikhq: proposal: log-structured file system, except here log means actual log 20:01:52 log(n) 20:04:00 How... Does that work? 20:04:36 pikhq: that's for me to not know and you to invent. 20:04:47 maybe instead of a binary tree 20:04:48 a log tree 20:04:53 log_2(n) instead of 2^n 20:05:11 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 20:05:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 20:06:12 Hi, everybody! 20:07:44 Phantom_Hoover: DIE 20:07:46 DIE IN A VAT OF VATNESS 20:07:56 ... 20:08:25 * Phantom_Hoover is lost for words. 20:08:45 -!- quintopia has changed nick to mibquint. 20:08:55 -!- mibquint has changed nick to quintopia. 20:09:15 Phantom_Hoover: Yor the mourt I woarked in. 20:10:08 You have completely derailed my brain. 20:10:14 I hope you're happy. 20:11:31 Phantom_Hoover: Ik it pins ont fleur. Crik tek book o dee la. "PASTEUR". 20:11:50 Value-added tax of value-added taxness. 20:11:55 It appears that you have gone insane in my absence. 20:12:04 Vaxness. 20:12:11 fungot, please bring some sanity into this conversation. 20:12:12 Phantom_Hoover: problem solved. :d i had a q-tip, i could get ' messages posted per hour' graphs, i'm sure that'd have got you noticed. we had to manipulate huge lists of quantifier logic _with our hands_! 20:12:41 With their hands! 20:12:42 our beautiful, beautiful hands! 20:12:59 The papercuts were horrific! 20:13:48 cpressey, when did elliott go insane? 20:14:30 -!- wareya has joined. 20:14:39 Five yeers go, past telemetry. Castrate orchids, saidded he. Waltz the fourt I groned in. 20:15:25 Oh, god, I have a week's worth of webcomics to rake through. 20:16:17 * Phantom_Hoover starts on IWC... 20:16:32 Phantom_Hoover: where've you been? 20:16:47 elliott, holiday! 20:16:54 without internet?! 20:16:55 AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 20:17:38 I am informed that broadband here has to be attained through phone lines, if at all. 20:17:42 BARBARISM 20:18:09 Phantom_Hoover: Yeah, uh. Same here. 20:18:13 You crazy scots. 20:18:19 Phantom_Hoover: wait "here" 20:18:24 so you're still there? :p 20:18:40 elliott, not in Scotland. 20:19:02 I am confused. 20:19:31 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:19:44 elliott, I finally reached a place with wifi. 20:20:02 Where are you? 20:20:11 Ireland. 20:20:50 Ireland, land of the irate. 20:20:59 * quintopia gives everyone FIBER! 20:21:16 fizzie, ...I'm going to have to steal that from you. 20:21:21 quintopia, not likely. 20:21:27 fungot, give them some fiber please 20:21:28 quintopia: i like to pretend i'm not) 20:21:35 Hey, Unicode 6 is out! 20:21:38 LET'S HAVE A PARTY 20:21:43 I'm surrounded by deadzones for cellular internet, let alone fibre. 20:21:44 "Unicode 6.0 adds 2,088 new characters. These include 63 Emoticons, important for use in text messages" 20:21:44 WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoo 20:21:45 asdfghjkl; 20:21:58 Phantom_Hoover: GSM should work anywhere. 20:22:08 Phantom_Hoover: It might be patented by someone; it sounds so obvious, and isn't that one of the properties of patentable things? 20:22:08 And don't say it's not sufficient; it was my main internet connection for months. You know why. 20:22:08 I HOPE ONE OF THEM IS A THUMBS-UP EMOTICON 20:22:20 BECAUSE THAT LACKS A SATISFACTORY ONE-LINE ASCII REPRESENTATION 20:22:51 elliott, well, the borrowed iPhone I had sporadic access to cut out entirely a fairly short distance from where I am now. 20:23:10 http://everything2.com/title/Unicode+6.0 20:23:23 PHANTOM HOOVER ARE YOU AWARE THAT TODAY IS INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY 20:23:30 quintopia: I occasionally use "(Y)" after the Windows Live (eurgh, but...) shortcut for it. 20:23:37 I am doing this internet with the three-and-a-half G. At http://altpary.org/2010/ ({shame,use}less plug; useless since no-one's probably going to come and fly here on such short notice.) 20:23:50 ALSO I AM MAKING IT A PERSONAL OMIT ALL PUNCTUATION DAY BUT YOU NEEDNT FEEL PRESSURE TO OBSERVE THAT PART 20:24:15 I TYPO; altparty.org, not -pary. 20:24:22 cpressey, I rebound my caps lock ages ago. 20:24:28 elliott: me too, but i confused Gregor that way 20:25:45 ^I^N^T^E^R^N^A^T^I^O^N^A^L ^C^T^R^L ^D^A^Y 20:25:59 fizzie, wait, Finland seriously has a space travel party? 20:26:05 Audacity question! Anyone know how to deamplify (deplify?) some audio by 75%? 20:26:11 That is, make the volume 25% of what it is now. 20:26:20 I am doing this internet with the three-and-a-half G. At http://altpary.org/2010/ ({shame,use}less plug; useless since no-one's probably going to come and fly here on such short notice.) 20:26:23 I'm there 20:26:30 Wait it's not an alternative pary? 20:26:31 Just a party? 20:26:32 Lame 20:26:34 Not coming 20:26:39 Phantom_Hoover: It's a new theme every year; last year's was cyberpunksity or some-such. 20:27:05 The one before that was sex bots and WOW was attendance high. 20:27:12 elliott: the standard amplify function does that IIRC 20:27:22 quintopia: i'm not sure what dB i want to be putting in, though 20:27:40 quintopia: in fact it doesn't even let me amplify 0, the maximum is -0.4 to get it to peak at 0 20:27:42 which is rather odd 20:27:44 hmm, it doesn't do percent? 20:27:49 as one would assume that it's impossible to have something *above* clipping 20:27:58 and thus 0 amplification should always work and be a nop 20:28:21 i could have sworn it did percent 20:28:26 oh well, make a guess 20:28:33 quintopia: no :P 20:28:39 i need/want it exact 20:28:42 well 20:28:47 you know how dB work 20:29:02 you should be able to calculate the value 20:29:02 yes 20:29:05 quintopia: but the -0.4 thing 20:29:08 has thrown me off 20:29:20 wot 20:29:44 fizzie: re 88.2 KHz, lulz material: "Yeah, but for certain types of music 88.2khz is a tighter sound then 96khz(which is at times too loose). Its almost like the difference betweeen 44.1khz and 98khz." 20:29:54 quintopia: quintopia: in fact it doesn't even let me amplify 0, the maximum is -0.4 to get it to peak at 0 which is rather odd as one would assume that it's impossible to have something *above* clipping and thus 0 amplification should always work and be a nop 20:30:02 Oh, I had a dream a few days ago wherein Sarah Palin held my family hostage. 20:30:11 Phantom_Hoover: no dream, my friend. no dream 20:30:12 Don't ask for details. 20:30:26 elliott: i read that and it still makes no sense 20:30:30 Phantom_Hoover: WHAT DID SHE DEMAND 20:30:33 have you tried bitch-slapping it? 20:30:36 elliott, no idea. 20:30:51 Though I remember her worshipping Glenn Beck. 20:30:54 elliott: Right, it's "tighter". 20:31:12 And that I desperately wanted to get on the internet to see what the general reaction was. 20:31:16 fizzie: "I go for the best 'capture I can, and I can hear the benifit of 96k converted material that has been SRCed down to 44.1" 20:31:17 WHAT HAVE I BECOME 20:31:50 fizzie: Next line: "That old 82.2 to 44.1 theory could be a digital myth nowadays....", speaking of myths... 20:32:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:34:13 I have also come to the conclusion that Freespace 2 stores its config somewhere in the luminiferous æther. 20:34:42 i have a portal to there in my bedroom 20:34:57 you can come use it for 25 plus airfare 20:35:07 Phantom_Hoover: googling suggests the source is available 20:35:08 Cool. Can you get rid of my screwed up HUD settings for me? 20:35:08 check that :P 20:35:10 or use locate(1) 20:35:16 $ locate freespace 20:35:27 elliott, done both. 20:35:39 Phantom_Hoover: Reading the source will definitely work... 20:35:52 Phantom_Hoover: strace | grep open. 20:35:53 Phantom_Hoover: I have to remain on the outside to tweak the machinery and keep the portal stable. If I go in, it'll collapse and I'll be stuck there. 20:35:54 a) fs2_open also needs to be checked; b) I'm utterly awful at all source diving. 20:36:42 elliott, FWIW, I've nuked .fs2_open, which is where save files and some other config is kept. 20:36:56 Phantom_Hoover: $ grep -ri config . 20:37:07 Phantom_Hoover: Maybe it's in the WINDOWS REGISTRY. 20:37:23 And I've tried running it with a different user, in a different directory, with only hardlinks to the executable and the data files. 20:37:29 quintopia: ok, now how do i merge tracks :P 20:37:42 Phantom_Hoover: obviously it modifies its own binary 20:38:08 elliott: You can only merge all tracks in the project by selecting "mix and render". 20:38:31 elliott, that is actually my best theory right now. 20:38:32 evincar: Well, that... yes... makes sense. :P 20:38:38 Phantom_Hoover: check the binary permissions :P 20:39:08 Hang on, I'll recompile, then use the binary from that. 20:39:46 Phantom_Hoover: dude it... no, it doesn't 20:40:10 I know. 20:40:15 I'm being facetious. 20:40:49 Your FACE is being facetious. 20:41:02 Factacular, even. 20:41:16 In the land of the irate, no less! 20:42:35 elliott: select both, and choose "quick mix" off like. . .the edit menu? 20:43:53 Phantom_Hoover: what was the Very Important Email? 20:44:09 elliott, what Very Important Email. 20:44:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/User_talk:Deschutron 20:44:45 elliott, oh, just that I was interested in a suggestion he'd made on the dead forums. 20:44:59 the forums are not dead 20:45:00 well 20:45:01 they are permanently dead 20:47:19 evincar: quintopia: Okay, less silly new question: I have four 44.1 kHz, 32-bit tracks that are... well not quite clipping but almost. Can I turn these into one 128 kHz track in Audacity? 20:47:28 Then I can just convert it down, solving my problems. 20:47:57 it's probably capable of resampling, but i couldn't tell you how 20:48:11 I don't see how changing the samplin rate would help in amplitude clipping, though. 20:48:31 I *may* be mixing up everything because I'm dumb. 20:48:32 Wait wait wait 20:48:34 Not 128 kHz 20:48:37 evincar: quintopia: Okay, less silly new question: I have four 44.1 kHz, 32-bit tracks that are... well not quite clipping but almost. Can I turn these into one 128-bit track in Audacity? 20:48:44 fizzie: There. 20:49:08 elliott: You might be able to copy them into a new project and just change the project rate in the bottom toolbar. 20:49:18 elliott: BitTorrent is definitely the best way to watch TV. 20:49:19 evincar: How does that help me mix them into one 128-bit track? 20:49:29 Random, but true. 20:49:37 oh i think evincar's plan could work 20:50:03 Wait... 20:50:27 pikhq: Your MO- 20:50:37 is definitely the best way to watch TV. 20:50:46 ...well, disregard my statement, which was in response to your use of sampling rate when you meant sample size... 20:50:46 You just need two more bits for clipping problems; anyway, I would think any bit-depth conversion would scale the amplitudes, otherwise it's a bit silly. 20:51:19 Doesn't it have any sort of mix-and-divide thing? Pre-deampliying them will reduce precision, after all. 20:51:20 Is it only me who is slightly depressed by the fact that he will never be as cool as DMM? 20:51:49 I think I'll unparticipate the discussion since I don't have Audacity to play with right now. 20:51:54 Doesn't it have any sort of mix-and-divide thing? Pre-deampliying them will reduce precision, after all. 20:51:57 that's why i don't want to do that 20:52:00 i'd rather just 20:52:02 elliott: Well played. 20:52:07 copy the data exactly into a 128-bit thing 20:52:19 mix it all, since they all fit into 32-bit there's no lossinessery 20:52:23 then just sample-convert that down 20:52:31 elliott: If you're summin them, you just need a 34-bit thing. 20:52:48 fizzie: True. 20:53:05 fizzie: "16-bit PCM, 24-bit PCM, 32-bit float". 20:53:09 That's some mighty support there. 20:53:23 fizzie, hm -INT_MIN is undefined in C, isn't it? Assuming no tricks such as first casting the value to a larger integer type. 20:53:45 quintopia: evincar: You two, figure it out. :P 20:53:47 Vorpal: Well, not necessarily, but often, yes. 20:54:22 fizzie, well, on my machine it seems like -INT_MIN == INT_MIN, which is quite reasonable, but here I want somewhat portable 20:55:08 Vorpal: That's only guaranteed to work for unsigned types. Signed overflow behaviour is implementation-defined. 20:55:27 unsigned int i = INT_MIN; i = -i; i == INT_MIN; 20:55:47 I think. 20:56:01 evincar, hm good point 20:56:19 evincar, also on one-complement -INT_MIN would be well defined wouldn't it? 20:56:24 You could go with MAX = min((unsigned)INT_MIN, (unsigned)INT_MAX), that way I think both MAX and -MAX will fit in an int. 20:56:53 Uh, with some fiddling, but anyway. 20:57:03 fizzie, what I'm trying to get around is that abs(INT_MIN) is *undefined*, that is getting around it without complicating the code quite a bit 20:58:02 elliott: i quit. 20:58:16 I hire evincar. 20:58:58 Um, yes Mr. elliott sir. 20:59:16 evincar. How do I does it. 20:59:19 I hire Gregor. 20:59:35 Uhhh 20:59:46 Was it so that C99 mandated the signed arithmetic is no longer undefined, just implementation-defined out of the three common alternatives? (I might misremember.) 20:59:47 fizzie, btw it seems that for llabs(), gcc on x86-64 basically compiles the code to: llabs(n) = (n >> 0x3f) - (n ^ (n >> 0x3f)); (but using several registers avoiding repeating the same operation) if I "reverse engineered" the assembler output correctly. 20:59:53 I hire pikhq. 20:59:53 which looks quite insane 21:00:03 I hire cpressey. 21:00:09 What's this hiring fiasco? :P 21:00:34 I give Gregor a better offer. 21:00:48 elliott, I'm outsourcing. 21:01:08 I hire... erm... Vorpal. 21:01:10 Awww. 21:01:12 Gregor: How do I mix shit in audacity properly. 21:01:14 Phantom_Hoover: ...w...why 21:01:25 elliott, because everyone else is taken. 21:01:30 Wait, no! 21:01:37 Hire sshc 21:01:40 You can repair your relationship 21:01:46 elliott: Make sure you get the right consistency of shit, and use a large spoon. 21:01:48 fizzie, I choose you^W^W^W you're hired. 21:02:04 Phantom_Hoover, for doing what? :) 21:02:06 I hire my cell phone. 21:02:12 I hire pikhq. 21:02:23 pikhq, you are now manager of cellphones. 21:02:32 My cell phone hires Phantom_Hoover. 21:02:56 elliott: Why, prithee, do you think you need 128-bit samples in the first place? 21:03:01 evincar: I don't. 21:03:03 evincar: 34-bit is fine. 21:03:05 As fizzie said. 21:03:20 evincar, yours not to question why, yours to mix shit. 21:03:33 Assuming that was true, you could then in C99 do (x < -INT_MAX ? INT_MAX : abs(x)) to get a working "clipped" abs, since -INT_MAX is okay in all three of {twos-complement, ones-complement, sign-magnitude}. If that's what you want; you can't much get around the fact that there might not be a number big enough. 21:03:37 And 32-bit isn't because...your audio is already clipped? 21:04:12 Mixing several non-clipped samples won't result in clipping. Samples aren't mixed by addition. :P 21:04:42 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:05:13 How are they mixed, then, if not additively? I mean, does it clip the amplitudes of one track to half when I mix that and silence? 21:05:14 elliott: Y'know, I think I'm going to keep this 480p24 video of Elephants Dream. It's just wonderful. :) 21:05:32 Aaand screw the 1080p. 21:05:35 pikhq: Strangely, while the avi played fine, I could not get flac in in any way that would play properly. 21:05:39 Aww, I missed Pete's return in D&D. 21:05:41 pikhq: .mkv made it laaag like hell. 21:05:47 fizzie, actually, my code works fine as long abs(INT_MIN) isn't 0 or 1 21:05:55 elliott: I had that problem yesterday. *Today*, it "just worked". 21:05:55 iirc it was desynced when i tried to mux the avi into another avi with it 21:05:58 Like magic. 21:06:01 also had to manually specify flac while playing it 21:06:08 pikhq: mkv or avi? 21:06:09 fizzie, but since it is undefined it *could* be that of course 21:06:11 mkv 21:06:12 mkv playback seems to be too slow here 21:06:15 pikhq: it plays just 21:06:25 every so often i- t doesn't g- o so fa- st 21:06:30 Now to do Big Buck Bunny. 21:06:39 pikhq: why not do a movie anyone would actually want to watch 21:06:42 :P 21:06:49 yeah, yeah, i know 21:06:52 Vorpal: Can you rely on C99 there? You could check if it has that guarantee I mentioned. *Something* had it. 21:06:52 no lossless sources 21:07:05 pikhq: do Big Buck Bunny in 1080p only 21:07:07 Okay, okay, "Sita Sings the Blues", which is a feature-length animated film that apparently critics loved. 21:07:11 pikhq: no point settling for less 21:07:12 Yes! 21:07:13 Do that one. 21:07:17 I only know of it thanks to Karl Fogel. 21:07:33 pikhq: Its creator is now a dedicated anti-copyright person :) 21:07:47 pikhq: And, uh, totally do it in 1080p+FLAC. 21:07:49 pikhq: Buy more disc. 21:07:53 * pikhq grabs the 480p 21:07:55 No seriously, buy more disk. 21:07:56 *disk 21:07:56 pikhq: NO 21:07:57 1080P 21:08:01 elliott: The problem is that I can't *watch* the 1080p. 21:08:03 fizzie, C99 says that abs(INT_MIN) has undefined *behaviour*. Which is even worse than saying that the return value is undefined. And atm I'm searching for what C99 says about -INT_MIN 21:08:04 pikhq: Who carse? 21:08:06 As in I can't *play it back*. 21:08:06 *cares? 21:08:09 This isn't for watching. 21:08:11 This is for AWESOME 21:08:45 pikhq: http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-20024741711964_2122_6228207 Anorexia -- discuss 21:08:58 (Advertisement for Sita Sings the Blues DVD.) 21:09:11 Those eyes are... uh, yeah. 21:09:21 (Those proportions are............. what.) 21:09:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:09:39 cpressey: I am now extremely tempted to do a comparative study of a few languages by implementing a simple netcat in each. 21:09:44 elliott: Okay, I'll compromise. 720p. 21:09:49 cpressey: Connect, listen, and -e. 21:09:50 I can probably watch the 720p version. 21:10:06 cpressey: Oh, uh, maybe UDP too. Maybe. 21:10:53 fizzie, C99 at least says you have to use one of "sign and magnitude", "two's complement" and "ones' complement" 21:11:20 pikhq: Apparently Ebert liked Sita a lot. 21:11:34 Vorpal: If it has that signed-arithmetic guarantee, you could just use (x < 0 ? -x : x) instead of abs(x), I think it should be okay for all those three in theory. Except that I think it still is allowed to trap on signed-overflow, too. Can't quite recall. 21:11:35 And I like Ebert. 21:11:35 elliott: Which is at least somewhat promising. 21:11:46 "It hardly ever happens this way. I get a DVD in the mail. I'm told it's an animated film directed by "a girl from Urbana." That's my home town. It is titled "Sita Sings the Blues." I know nothing about it, and the plot description on IMDb is not exactly a barn-burner: An animated version of the epic Indian tale of Ramayana set to the 1920's jazz vocals of Annette Hanshaw. Uh, huh. I carefully file it 21:11:46 with other movies I will watch when they introduce the 8-day week." 21:11:52 Cracking start. 21:11:55 pikhq: Only as a blog post though. 21:13:00 -!- wareya has joined. 21:13:41 fizzie, hm, it says that it is implementation-defined for sign+magnitude and twocomp if "sign bit 1 and all value bits zero" is a trap value 21:13:41 pikhq: Well *I'm* going to download the 1080p. 21:13:44 Assuming I have the disk. 21:13:48 * elliott rms all the elephants stuff 21:14:26 elliott: I just rm'd all but the 480p version of that. I actually somewhat *like* Elephants Dream... 21:14:49 pikhq: I haven't watched the whole thing, but -- when I was skipping around my encode -- the voice actors *suck*. 21:14:55 Srsly, total mismatch with both their looks. 21:14:58 That's the largest problem with it. 21:15:00 Really weird feeling. 21:15:06 pikhq: http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/wiki/index.php?title=SitaSites Can you tell me which one you grabbed? 21:15:11 Aside from it being just fucking weird. :P 21:15:14 "1920x1080p "master" version (200GB 24fps, 35mm film-quality uncompressed Quicktime .mov)" 21:15:17 That sounds sort of like it. 21:15:24 elliott: http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/y4m/1080p/sita_sings_the_blues_1080p24.y4m.xz That's the one you want. 21:15:27 pikhq: Ha: 21:15:28 "1080p / FLAC (original video with FLAC audio in MKV container)" 21:15:35 pikhq: PREEMPT'D 21:15:38 Ooor that. 21:15:48 pikhq: Probably not compressed though. 21:15:56 pikhq: Also, no I do not want HTTP thank you. 21:15:58 That must be huge. 21:16:03 I, uh, bittorrent. 21:16:08 cpressey: Good idea wrt netcat? 21:16:32 elliott: A "mere" 31G. 21:16:35 pikhq: Oh. 21:16:39 pikhq: The .mov is 200 GiB. 21:16:40 pikhq: Heh. 21:16:46 pikhq: Are you suer it's uncompressed? 21:16:50 *sure 21:16:53 Heh, MATLAB on the N900 looks for some reason *really weird*. (X forward over 3G, so also *really slow*, but anyway.) 21:16:53 elliott: It is compressed. With xz. 21:16:57 Well, yes. 21:17:06 fizzie: Screeny! Can you take them? 21:17:07 Uncompressed, that gets out to 341GB. 21:17:14 pikhq: Woot. I totally have that disc space. 21:17:18 pikhq: Actually I physically *don't*. 21:17:29 LZMA works astonishingly well with video content. :) 21:17:30 pikhq: 21:17:32 Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on 21:17:32 /dev/sda1 220G 12G 198G 6% / 21:17:36 pikhq: LULZ 21:17:43 720p one is 152GB. 21:17:48 (uncompressed) 21:17:52 pikhq: 720p is for underachievers 21:18:01 pikhq: Can I have an ssh account on your box pl0x :P 21:18:08 I'll only use 341 GiB! 21:18:25 elliott: Okay, okay, I'll download the 1080p one and downscale from there. 21:18:36 pikhq: Aww, but I want to run the fun commands of fun funness. 21:18:40 elliott: Gaa, I just closed it. 21:18:41 You can't beat fun funness. 21:19:11 pikhq: Okay, well, just be kind to my baby. 21:19:25 pikhq: 1080p, FLAC, mkv. 21:19:37 That's the way / uh-huh, uh-huh / I like it / uh-huh, uh-huh. So said a great poet. 21:19:40 I think I'll grab the one from archive.org because that's a much nicer server. 21:19:53 pikhq: Wait wait wait. 21:20:00 pikhq: It appears that... 21:20:03 Hey guys, eso thing. I was thinking of writing a "BFVM" (Brainfuck Virtual Machine) that could function as a target for higher-level languages, and whose bytecode could be disassembled/decompiled into vanilla BF. What do you think? 21:20:09 pikhq: It appears that the FLAC audio is not available separately. 21:20:17 evincar: Do it and we'll comment :P 21:20:27 elliott: Kay. Do I get a stack? 21:20:28 Erm, no, that's gigantic. 21:20:32 elliott: http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/flac/SSTB/ 21:20:39 evincar: Hm? 21:20:48 pikhq: the 200 gig one is .mov :P 21:20:50 but it includes audio 21:20:53 pikhq: Oh yeah, 5.1 too. 21:21:03 pikhq: 1080p, 5.1 FLAC, mkv. 21:21:09 Yes, but this is 31G. Bit more work to get it sane, but totally doable. 21:21:13 pikhq: Sure, neither of us can watch that, but... 21:21:22 pikhq: Just do it and we'll gaze in awe. 21:21:23 It'll be a couple days. 21:21:31 pikhq: To... download 31 gigs? 21:21:34 elliott: Life (read: interfacing with C libraries) would be easier if I had a stack. 21:21:43 evincar: Sure, uh, do that then. 21:21:56 elliott: From a single server that appears to have limited upload bandwidth. 21:22:05 elliott: Bah, I'll figure something out. 21:22:06 pikhq:Wait, cancel your download a sec. 21:22:11 *pikhq: Wait, 21:22:12 elliott: The archive.org one would be worse. 21:22:14 (Trust me.) 21:22:21 ... Kay? 21:22:22 pikhq: Tell me when, I have a point to make :P 21:22:30 Nao? 21:22:38 -!- antivigilante has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:22:52 pikhq: 0% [ ] 9,723,863 749K/s eta 13h 37m 21:22:57 I got >800 KiB/s before, too. 21:22:59 * elliott cancels 21:23:02 Okay, carry on. 21:23:11 pikhq, what are you going on about? 21:23:11 pikhq: Or did you mean day in the half-a-day sense? :P 21:23:19 Phantom_Hoover: We're downloading a feature-length animated film. 21:23:22 ...In lossless. 21:23:26 ...Lossless full 1080p HD. 21:23:31 Okay, that's better. 21:23:37 ...Then he's going to download the 5.1 surround sound soundtrack. 21:23:39 ...In lossless FLAC. 21:23:55 Phantom_Hoover: Then he's going to losslessly compress the video with x264. 21:23:59 And the stack comment? 21:24:00 And mux that, with the FLAC, into a final .mkv. 21:24:03 Phantom_Hoover: That's evincar... 21:24:15 pikhq: Now we get to predict the final size. 21:24:19 Ahh. 21:24:27 pikhq: You will get a better ratio than with Elephants Dream because, well, 2D animation with simple shading. 21:24:34 pikhq: But! 5.1 soundtrack. 21:24:45 pikhq: I predict... well, 100 GiB? You think? 21:24:49 75 GiB maybe? 21:25:10 pikhq: "Yes, I know bad bad people can also use the .fla files for dastardly deeds (the dreaded hypothetical “Nazi Porn Version” that always comes up at Q&A’s). Bad bad people can use our shared Language and Technology for evil too, but I’m not going to constipate culture out of fear of imaginary worst-case scenarios. I’m confident much more good will come from this than bad, and that’s mot 21:25:11 ivation enough for me. It’s Free Culture, baby. If programmers can tinker with the Free Software’s source code, artists can tinker with Sita Sings the Blues‘ source files." <-- it's hard to believe these words don't come from a programmer 21:25:17 pikhq: ... 21:25:24 pikhq: She has posted the Flash authoring files. 21:25:31 pikhq: What I am saying is: You could render this in Ultra HD. 21:25:55 pikhq: You could render it... in vector. 21:25:59 Vector + FLAC in mkv. 21:26:13 elliott, why could this be used for evil? 21:26:27 Phantom_Hoover: "the dreaded hypothetical “Nazi Porn Version” that always comes up at Q&A’s" 21:26:35 elliott: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/n900lab.png -- not much N900-specific there. 21:27:25 elliott, wait, that's actually considered an argument? 21:27:40 Phantom_Hoover: Apparently :P 21:27:43 Phantom_Hoover: Amongst morons, yes. 21:27:57 OMG OMG OMG 21:28:00 Sita Singes the Jews 21:28:06 * Phantom_Hoover slams his head into the nearest hard surface. 21:28:12 ^ LOLOLOL 21:28:29 fizzie, eh, the last step of that "reverse engineering" ended up wrong. Should be (n ^ (n >> 0x3f)) - (n >> 0x3f) 21:30:57 Whelp, off I get. May be back later, maybe with a hacked-together interesting project. 21:31:51 evincar: Bye. 21:32:01 fizzie: Is that small text legible at all? 21:32:05 fizzie: Antialiasing might help... 21:32:08 Also, what's magic? 21:32:14 -!- evincar has quit (Quit: Toodles.). 21:32:18 Magic square? 21:32:45 pikhq: So, you're doing 1080p/5.1FLAC/MKV, right? I'll do it with 480p because... my computer sucks. 21:33:44 Magic square, yes. 21:34:06 cpressey: Pinge. 21:34:10 The text is larger than my terminal font. 21:34:20 Of course it's pretty small still. 21:34:29 pikhq: what's y4m anyway? 21:34:35 oh i see 21:34:36 But at least you can fit a reasonable amount of stuff in. 21:34:56 park_joy_2160p.y4m07-May-2009 13:555.8G 21:34:58 PARKJOY WOO 21:35:06 fizzie: You must be going blind with a terminal font that tiny. 21:35:13 pikhq: Nobutsrsly, ping. 21:35:34 elliott: srsly? ping? ok 21:36:05 * cpressey reads backlog 21:36:10 cpressey: I am now extremely tempted to do a comparative study of a few languages by implementing a simple netcat in each. 21:36:16 cpressey: thar 21:36:27 elliott: some dude wrote a lame one in 3, don't know if you saw that link 21:36:32 his python was terrible 21:36:34 cpressey: that's what inspired me 21:36:39 cpressey: i'm thinking 21:36:44 it showcases the stdlib quite well 21:36:44 and it was like pyton, ruby, and... i never found out what #3 was 21:36:46 anyway 21:36:53 it showcases the basic way you express stuff in the language 21:36:57 it shows its IO capabilities 21:37:05 with -e it shows a taste of what it's like to interact with the rest of the system 21:37:08 it shows argument parsing 21:37:10 and in the middle of it all 21:37:13 there's a little bit of logic too 21:37:22 yes, it's an IO-lib exerciser (more so than the other parts) 21:37:26 on top of that, it's relatively trivial 21:37:38 cpressey: right. but a bit more than that too 21:37:46 i think it'd be an interesting portrait of languages 21:37:51 cpressey: python's will be hideous :) 21:37:53 i know it already 21:38:02 i've already done netcat -e in python :) 21:38:15 it's not _too_ bad 21:38:26 cpressey: in the same way that python is not _too_ bad 21:38:33 yeah, basically 21:38:46 elliott: Blindness is a small price to pay for a 99x24 terminal. Besides, the screen is 76x46 mm, so the characters are like 0.8 x 1.6 mm huge. 21:38:55 fizzie: Quite... 21:38:55 ruby would also be kind of nice, assuming its IO.popen is ok (it _seems_ ok from what i could make out) 21:39:01 That's over a millimetre. 21:39:07 elliott: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/n900lab.png -- not much N900-specific there. <-- hm, isn't matlab closed source and windows only? 21:39:09 cpressey: ruby would excel at this, yeah 21:39:23 Vorpal: Closed but very definitely not Windows. 21:39:27 fizzie, ah 21:39:39 elliott: i actually am thinking of writing, um, a 'polycat' in Ruby now 21:39:40 elliott: y4m is a raw video format, "YUV4MPEG". It's essentially a headered dump of raw YUV video. 21:39:44 cpressey: it has nice argument parsers (even the stdlib one is nice), its socket stuff is an actual abstraction rather than BSD Sockets: The Binding!, and popen is trivial 21:39:50 cpressey: polycat? :P 21:39:51 pikhq: right 21:40:06 It's the preferred input format for many encoders. 21:40:10 fizzie, so they made a version for arm heh? 21:40:20 polycat: run a set of programs and pipe all their outputs together to all their inputs 21:40:22 fizzie, or is it vnc? 21:40:24 OH NO WAIT 21:40:26 wat 21:40:27 catbus 21:40:27 much better name :) 21:40:29 :D 21:40:36 cpressey: i think... that we're sliding, slipperily (say that ten times fast), into the dreaded slope of becoming ruby users. 21:40:53 this will also mark the end of us being able to get non-douchebaggy help whenever we have trouble. god save us 21:40:58 elliott: well... you know, the ruby programmers here are all westerners, and for the most part they're OK 21:41:09 cpressey: YOU WORK IN AN AGILE COMPANY 21:41:10 NOBODY IS NICE 21:41:36 Vorpal: "(X forward over 3G, so also *really slow*, but anyway.) 21:41:52 (Way up there.) 21:42:55 elliott: I'm not sure I follow your logic. Getting help from the "community" of C++ programmers, for example... is this any less douchebaggy? 21:43:07 fizzie, ah 21:43:45 Maybe the community of academic functional programmers is nicer, overall, I grant. 21:44:20 They currently sell five versions: Win 32/64, Linux x86 32/64 and OS X on x86-64. I think they used to have some others too, earlier. 21:44:22 except for the occasional exploded bloodsucker 21:44:48 Solaris, at least. 21:44:49 cpressey: You have never seen #ruby-lang. (NEVER ENTER THIS CHANNEL) 21:45:04 The op is a massive douchebag, most people there are idiotic pseudo-hipster Mac-using Starbucks-visiting Rails users. 21:45:12 The rest are snobbish elitists who hate questions. 21:45:13 elliott, honestly, that's just unethical. 21:45:25 "Mathworks will be dropping support for Matlab on Solaris (SPARC) as 21:45:25 of March 2010. There is currently no Solaris (x86) version, and our 21:45:25 Matworks rep says that "there aren't any near term plans" to support x86 21:45:25 Solaris in the future (although he says he is pushing for this). 21:45:26 * Phantom_Hoover joins it. 21:45:27 " 21:45:31 And there's a lot of "DON'T DO THAT, WHAT DO YOU REALLY WANT TO DO". 21:45:48 cpressey: *Anyway* the option parser is really nice: 21:45:49 elliott: ah, so you are referring more to Ruby per se, than to agile in general. k yea 21:46:00 elliott, trollsers to "kill". 21:46:04 cpressey: http://pastie.org/pastes/1241641/text?key=1h4pq5brnaq4kdy0u9j8a 21:46:06 Phantom_Hoover: just don't. 21:46:08 Phantom_Hoover: seriously. 21:46:33 Agile is largely wanky too, but... also, the company I work for has a less wanky culture than most (one of the reasons I accepted a job here.) 21:46:36 cpressey: It can also do keyword completion, where you can provide the shortest ambiguous argument, arguments can take lists, there's even support for octal: 21:46:38 opts.on("-F", "--irs [OCTAL]", OptionParser::OctalInteger, 21:46:38 "Specify record separator (default \\0)") do |rs| 21:46:41 oh, you can also specify 21:46:43 opts.on("-t", "--time [TIME]", Time, "Begin execution at given time") do |time| 21:46:45 and you get a time... 21:46:50 etc. 21:46:56 really, really nice option parser. 21:47:01 elliott, what the hell did you join for, then? 21:47:05 Phantom_Hoover: to stop you :P 21:47:08 elliott: Yeah, it looks decent (the one in Python isn't _too_ bad, heheh.) 21:47:14 I'm terrible at trolling, don't worry. 21:47:21 cpressey: oops i missed a bit 21:47:24 s/end/end.parse!/ 21:47:39 (obviously it returns the new optionparser, which you then tell to parse-destructively-using-ARGV.) 21:47:46 (ARGV is then all your non-option arguments.) 21:48:45 cpressey: i would totally point you to all of why's stuff ever now but RIP :( 21:50:40 This smoke-machine smoke smells like popcorn. Disquieting. 21:53:03 elliott: he took it with him? 21:53:17 cpressey: well he's not dead. but, as good as, internet-wise. 21:53:17 fizzie: where are you that you are next to a smoke machine AND on irc? this is disquieting. 21:53:20 cpressey: just deleted everything last year 21:53:28 complete disappearance 21:53:53 elliott: yeah, i heard. was his stuff open source and was any of it saved before it went poof? 21:54:00 cpressey: all of it. 21:54:02 cpressey: http://viewsourcecode.org/why/ 21:54:07 this is like 90% of everything why has ever done. 21:54:16 i know he wrote e.g. the yaml libs for ruby 21:54:24 cpressey: Not just Ruby. 21:54:34 It was also, uh, Perl and PHP and just about everything. 21:54:53 cpressey: He did *way* more interesting stuff than that though. 21:55:11 He was really great at getting people interested in programming... and a lot of code-art stuff too as of recently. 21:55:18 interesting. he's known for the ruby mostly it seems 21:55:27 Plus, uh, language designer: http://runciter.net/potion/ 21:55:29 cpressey: untrue 21:55:37 cpressey: I mean... yes, he was very much in the "ruby community". 21:55:42 but... no, he did a lot of non-ruby stuff 21:55:43 cpressey: I just advertised my place: http://altparty.org/2010/ -- hang on, let me a picture. 21:55:45 and he was *never* a "rubyist" 21:55:53 it was always him using ruby because he likes it, not because it's ruby 21:56:46 cpressey: his last blog (hackety.org) actually had not very much ruby stuff on it 21:56:53 web.archive.org only has up to 2008 though... 21:57:08 cpressey: oh yes, he wrote a hideous half-working ruby -> python bytecode compiler. 21:57:09 gotta love it. 21:57:30 but really he did an awful lot of cool stuff. 21:58:07 elliott, any word on why he disappeared? 21:58:20 cpressey: He posted about Lua once or twice! Also DragonFly was one of his main OSes. :P 21:58:25 (The other being Ubuntu and occasionally OS X.) 21:58:37 cpressey: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/i-smoke.jpg -- see, smoke. 21:58:45 Phantom_Hoover: Well... no. He was lamenting how little programming is appreciated once or twice on Twitter before he disappeared. 21:58:45 fizzie, what association do you have with this altparty thing? 21:58:47 But... no. 21:58:50 Phantom_Hoover: he's there. 21:59:07 Oh, at the conferency thing? 21:59:15 Phantom_Hoover: Well, I dabble with demosceneres+ occasionally, but not much more. 21:59:19 cpressey: Oh, and he also made an album which was a soundtrack to a book about cartoon foxes^W^WRuby. 21:59:21 so yeah 21:59:53 maybe he actually is jack black 21:59:57 rather than just looking like jack black 22:01:20 and to close this rambling, i quote him 22:01:21 "I appreciate your remarks, but I have a hard time believing that anyone would like my art. I will definitely die without recognition, and few will ever see the work I do. But I like it that way a lot!! One of the worst things a person can get in life is recognition. But a scalp rash is very, very bad as well. I have had some serious scalp rashes, and I also have thrown up blood quite a few times along 22:01:21 the way." 22:02:01 i wanted to write a soundtrack to a book once.. and detractors told me it was impossible. bah! 22:02:13 cpressey: It's a damn good album too! 22:02:19 Well, damn good if you're crazy. 22:02:21 And I am crazy. 22:02:53 fizzie: for some reason when you first posted that link i thought it was for a political party. 22:03:18 cpressey: Oh, well, in that case I can see why it was a confuse. 22:03:20 yup, that's -- smoke. 22:03:43 elliott: i've made a mental note to check out what remains of his work 22:03:53 cpressey: that's all of his work basically. but... you don't get the presentation 22:04:18 cpressey: like... reading Alice in Wonderland in Helvetica with a blank book cover and no illustrations 22:04:27 or an Infocom adventure game, sans feelies 22:04:29 but times 1,000 22:04:42 cpressey: http://whymirror.github.com/ has a list of all the code projects and summaries 22:04:58 elliott: started looking at that, found it impossible to navigate. 22:05:02 I don't mind the smoke, but the smell makes me suspect someone's been using the fog-machine as an improvised popcorn device. (No idea how, I don't think it generates that much heat anyway.) 22:05:03 anyway, bookmarked. 22:05:32 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:05:37 cpressey: It is terribly sad, since he had a lot of actually-developed, ongoing, really used or with real potential projects that were really interesting. 22:06:15 maybe one day he'll come back. 22:06:15 -!- nooga has joined. 22:06:17 Maybe he's in here now! 22:06:22 ...nah. 22:07:08 cpressey: Anyway I'm totally going to make Network Cat: A Comparative Study of Several Dynamic Languages. 22:07:15 nooga, psst he means you. 22:07:23 nooga: I actually mean why :P 22:08:38 The Networked Cat: Or, Why Should We Welcome Our New Feline Overlords. (A thesis title suggestion.) 22:08:51 Beautiful. 22:10:00 fizzie: Yes. 22:10:19 * elliott realises that the part identity of why's wife and the identity of some of his (ex-?)coworkers are known. 22:10:35 Thing to do sometime: Contact one of them. Uhh, the latter. 22:11:55 I mean, it *is* theoretically possible he killed himself. 22:16:36 What part of his wife's identity is known? 22:17:20 the url of her blog 22:17:25 well now ex-blog 22:18:22 elliott: Apparently people have criticised "Sita Sings the Blues" on the basis that it's racist because a white woman did it. 22:18:30 pikhq: l u l z 22:18:36 Phantom_Hoover: http://web.archive.org/web/20050319044407/misstrudy.hobix.com/ 22:18:45 i sure hope the about page is archived 22:18:46 yay it is 22:18:51 "I'm a bassist in a band, The Child Who Was A Keyhole, with my husband, Jonathan." 22:18:52 yup that's him 22:19:11 ...useless page though 22:19:18 wait wait we DO know his wife's name 22:19:23 elliott: I'm not entirely sure how it's racist for someone to use another culture's legend for a story, but apparently it is. 22:19:23 Kylie 22:19:28 Wait, wasn't there a guy called Jonathan who was alleged to be Why? 22:19:40 Phantom_Hoover: yes. turns out it is almost *certainly* him 22:20:39 Phantom_Hoover: it is theoretically possible that why and jonathan collaborated on the same project at work, and why used jonathan's email address a lot, and why hosted a blog for Jonathan's wife, and why designed the cover art to the only album of the band that Jonathan and Jonathan's wife were in... 22:20:45 Phantom_Hoover: ...but, uh, yeah. 22:21:16 Phantom_Hoover: oh and the band just *happens* to be completely his style. 22:21:37 Phantom_Hoover: also jonathan just so happens to sound exactly like why 22:22:15 [[Nina Paley has said that some left-wing academics have also been critical of the film, describing their position as "any white person doing a project like this is by definition racist, and it's an example of more neocolonialism."]] 22:22:28 Left-wing academics, dontcha love them? 22:22:52 Phantom_Hoover: the far-left academia attracts some real crazy 22:23:03 Indeed... 22:23:19 Phantom_Hoover: jonathan looks a bit different to why as we know him in the photos of the band but: 22:23:22 "Academia" seems generally to be a byword for crazy... 22:23:22 Wots all this then? 22:23:29 - change in weight 22:23:30 - grow beard 22:23:33 - different hair style 22:23:34 - sunglasses 22:23:38 - years passing 22:23:40 = transform 22:23:46 Phantom_Hoover: Well, not really... 22:23:56 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:24:01 Phantom_Hoover: Definitely not in the sciences. 22:24:23 elliott, I was excluding the sciences, mathematics, etc. 22:24:30 Don't ask me why. 22:24:40 so excluding half or more of academia? :P 22:25:00 (The best half or more) 22:25:10 What Gregor said. 22:25:46 [[Paley: On the far left, there are some very, very privileged people in academia who have reduced all the wondrous complexities of racial relations into, "White people are racist, and non-white people are all victims of white racism." Without actually looking at the work, they've decided that any white person doing a project like this is by definition racist, and it's an example of more neocolonialism. So po 22:25:46 litics makes strange bedfellows -- they're in bed with the Hindutva nationalists. And nobody's seen the work! I get all this criticism, and none of it's a critique of the work.]] 22:27:51 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:27:51 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 22:27:51 -!- Zuu has joined. 22:27:53 Phantom_Hoover: So, in short, people are morons. 22:28:09 cpressey: you know what i want to do? 22:28:28 Learn Japanese and migrate all my programming community activity other than this place and #haskell to the Japanese communities. 22:28:33 They made anagolf! 22:28:41 They're nice! If crazy. 22:28:46 pikhq: Here, you act as my Google Translate :P 22:29:38 someone(?) pulled up the site(?) of a Japanese esolanger last night(?) 22:29:51 the golf thing? 22:30:00 the 11-language quine thign 22:30:01 http://why.usesthis.com/ oh oh oh i remembered i love this 22:30:04 cpressey: yeah 22:30:11 on hatena diary, where seemingly every japanese programmer ever is :P 22:30:17 first esolanger that i can recall being from japan. 22:30:24 "the only other software I use besides windows xp is kjöfol." 22:30:30 i use the term 'esolanger' loosely of course 22:30:31 cpressey: There are... a LOT of them. 22:30:34 but geez, 11-language quine. 22:30:47 cpressey: Perhaps fewer languages coming out of there but NO THERE ARE TONS. 22:31:02 cpressey: And esoteric programming in non-esoteric languages is *even more* common there. 22:31:04 there is possibly less intersection/interaction with the english language esolangers then 22:31:10 I mean, hell. 22:31:13 See http://golf.shinh.org/ :P 22:31:18 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:31:32 well yes golf 22:31:33 cpressey: for the record anagolf's source code is SO NOT ANYTHING TO LOOK AT 22:31:44 it's code written directly to the fastcgi binding 22:31:49 plus some ... questionably amusing ... ruby 22:31:51 also there is this japanese concept of "useless artistic invention" that maps really closely to esolang 22:31:51 plus lots of html 22:32:06 i don't remember its name 22:32:15 pikhq probably knows 22:32:27 cpressey: it's interesting how different, like, japanese *people* are and japan the place + its culture 22:32:43 I can't recall the term, but yeah, there certainly is. 22:32:54 the former are just regular usually-strangely-polite people with perhaps more tendencies to the esoteric sorta stuff 22:32:58 whereas the latter is... uh, wow. 22:33:00 (generalising here of course) 22:33:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chind%C5%8Dgu 22:33:26 Ah, right, tinntồkù. 22:33:45 The Rube Goldbergism of the East, I guess. 22:33:46 cpressey: that is great 22:33:50 pikhq: double diacritics wat 22:34:18 elliott: It's necessary in my romanisation scheme for some syllables! 22:34:50 from just japanese people on the internet i would never guess how metropolisian (is that a word? yes. it is now.) japan itself is 22:34:52 Such as any long vowel + voiced consonant. 22:35:10 i wonder what drastically different cultures think about us; what are our discrepancies? :) 22:37:26 i have no idea. 22:38:32 -!- sftp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:45 Hmm... 22:38:49 cpressey: i have many ideas but none of relevance! 22:39:00 Moving large files from /tmp takes far longer than mv should... 22:39:18 Oh, wait, I have a separate /home partition. 22:41:04 In other news, I saw "The Social Network" today. 22:41:18 Never did I think I'd hear the word "wget" in a cinema. 22:41:42 It sounds shit. 22:41:51 It was... all right. 22:41:53 cpressey: hmm, how would you summarise -e prog in --help? :P 22:42:11 elliott, "executes things"? 22:42:22 Phantom_Hoover: no :P 22:42:37 "executes "? 22:43:15 Phantom_Hoover: have you ever used --help? 22:43:19 it should be way more specific than that... 22:43:23 "Executes on the socket", *maybe* 22:43:44 [[[phantomhoover@phantomhoover-laptop:~]$ dc --help (10-22 22:43) 22:43:44 Usage: dc [OPTION] [file ...] 22:43:44 -e, --expression=EXPR evaluate expression]] 22:44:21 Q.E.D. 22:45:28 QVOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDVM. If you're going to say it, do it right. :) 22:46:05 can prog be a whole fun shell syntax line? then i would call it cmd 22:47:07 Meanwhilst. "Around the World / Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" is amazing. 22:47:09 pikhq, QVODERATDEMONSTRANDVM, if you're going to be like that. 22:47:52 Phantom_Hoover: Spaces have been around much much longer than lower-case letters or a distinction between V and U. 22:48:13 cpressey: no, it can't 22:48:16 just a path to a binary 22:48:25 pikhq, I didn't use lowercase, nor did I use U. 22:48:28 Meanwhilst. "Around the World / Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger" is amazing. 22:48:30 most inventive lyrics ever 22:48:39 I wrote Q.E.D. 22:48:42 Around the world, around the world! Harder better faster stronger. Around the world, around the world! 22:49:03 elliott: Hah. 22:49:22 elliott: Daft Punk doesn't really do inventive lyrics. 22:49:51 pikhq: Case in point: http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/34775/ 22:50:06 Hey, I still have the LoseThos ISO here. 22:51:20 * elliott listens to "Around The World / Harder Better Faster Stronger" 22:52:02 pikhq: I would just like to say http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/daftpunk/aroundtheworld.html 22:52:19 Oh, darn it, I'm not quite right. "QVOD·ERAT·DEMONSTRANDVM" would be the actual old orthography. 22:52:36 elliott: Well aware. 22:52:46 Yes. :P 22:52:56 I have their discography you know! 22:53:10 pikhq: I prefer "Crescendolls" 22:53:11 pikhq: Work it / make it / do it / makes us / ... / ... / ... / .... / harder / better / faster / stronger 22:53:15 Oh the suspense in those "..."s 22:53:16 pikhq: well no, i'm not sure 22:53:41 pikhq: I used to have that album :) 22:53:53 cpressey: Alive 2007? 22:54:09 presumably Discovery 22:54:09 pikhq: I dunno man, it just said "Daft Punk" on the cover. 22:54:13 that's it 22:54:18 cpressey: all of their albums do that 22:54:25 That's not helpful. :) 22:54:35 cpressey: 22:54:35 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/Daftpunk-homework.jpg 22:54:37 pikhq: Discovery. 22:54:38 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ae/Daft_Punk_-_Discovery.jpg 22:54:40 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0d/Humanafterall.jpg 22:54:43 Mmkay. 22:56:18 -!- Zuu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:56:19 On a completely different note, default Maverick install on this machine, using Totem Movie Player, produces some crappy audio artefacts I don't remember hearing before. 22:56:19 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:56:33 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 22:57:15 cpressey: oh i totally forgot ruby has proper && and || and ! 22:57:18 as well as and/or/not 22:57:25 * elliott instantly re-love 22:57:37 -!- nooga has joined. 22:58:43 proper in what sense? 22:58:49 cpressey: as in you can use those 22:58:58 proper in that they look like C? :) 22:59:00 (there's actually a slight precedence difference that can be useful sometimes... but that's irrelevant) 22:59:01 cpressey: well 22:59:08 !x is sometimes a lot nicer than x 22:59:09 :P 22:59:40 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 23:01:12 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:01:12 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host). 23:01:12 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:01:59 "Once the ad ends you'll be returned to your LiveJournal experience" 23:02:02 hahahahahahahahahahaa 23:03:06 I once decided to use LiveJournal as my private journal 23:03:23 Had a paper journal and would copy stuff from there to LJ 23:03:27 Then I stopped doing that 23:03:46 Then, sometime after I stopped writing in the paper journal, I misplaced it 23:05:39 -!- FireFly has quit (Quit: swatted to death). 23:10:25 brb 23:11:55 human after all was surprisingly good 23:12:13 -!- tombom has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:14:54 quintopia: Sounds cannibalistic. You just ate? 23:15:25 More like cannibadelicious! 23:16:30 Putting the BALLS back to canniBALism. 23:17:21 (Was going to go with NIB first.) 23:18:39 Yes, he's fizzie: Putting the homoeroticism back into cannibalism! 23:21:52 Putting the ack back to back. 23:23:57 O Freespace 2, why do you torment me so? 23:24:16 It only tortures you because it loves you. 23:26:08 But it's being actively obtuse! 23:26:27 "Phantom_Hoover 0, Freespace 2" is how I read that. But that might be accurate too. Or maybe Freespace's score should be higher. 23:27:56 Phantom_Hoover: Try putting the extra-sensory perception back into FreESPace 2. 23:28:43 I would be able to deal with crashes if they actually made any sense! 23:29:20 Putting the rash back into crashes. Somebody stop me! 23:29:57 I can't stop looking at substrings. (Ring.) 23:30:05 Putting the topping back in stopping fizzie. 23:30:08 Ook. 23:30:24 -!- cpressey has quit (Quit: keep smiling). 23:30:53 Putting the milling back into smiling. 23:30:57 OK, that one was weak. 23:31:47 -!- Zuu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:31:48 I was going to go with "press into cpressey", but that sounded just dirty. 23:33:08 It might be time for me to try to catch the 01:49am bus, it's the last sensible homeward-bound one that doesn't involve circuitousity or switching. 23:35:44 -!- Zuu has joined. 23:38:30 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:42:50 RRRAAAAHHH 23:43:27 Oh, look, the currently active mod has 499 errors from simply starting up. BUT I'M NOT GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE HAHAHAHA 23:43:34 * Sgeo goes to download ooVoo 23:43:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:43:39 — fs2_open 23:44:34 Opera fails to mark files as originating from the Internet 23:44:54 Sgeo, what OS are you on? 23:45:00 Win7 23:45:02 Is it still Windows for your crappy games? 23:45:30 And because I haven't bothered to get Ubuntu on here yet 23:45:52 Sgeo: So does WebSplat work on Opera or not? :P 23:45:54 It takes a 2GB flash drive and about half an hour. 23:46:01 And also I want to be 100% sure, not just 99% sure because it's the only reasonable possibility, that the HD protection thingy doesn 23:46:09 't rely on software to work 23:46:16 You don't have to use Windows all of the time any more. 23:46:19 Gregor, using the down key causes some dizziness 23:46:28 Define. 23:46:46 The page scrolls down, and then snaps back up to the character 23:46:53 I assume the "HD protection thingy" is an accelerometer linked to something to stop the disc as soon as possible. 23:47:38 Something like that. But apparently it's controllable by software. It's reasonable to assume that the software just receives status and can toggle the state, but I want to be 100% sure 23:48:05 I think HD-stoppery should be supported by Ubuntu. 23:49:21 As far as I can tell, when FS2 gets 499 errors, its strategy is just to say "hey, tonnes of errors have occurred!", then throw them all into the bit bucket without leaving any semblance of a log. 23:50:20 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:50:33 Sgeo: It's almost certainly an accelerometer hooked directly to the drive controller that *happens* to be exposed to software. 23:51:15 If it were actually software controlled, it is *entirely* possible for a stupid scheduler mishap to make the spindown not happen in time. 23:51:25 precisely 23:51:29 if it's software-based 23:51:31 it's useless anyway 23:51:42 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Quit: Quit). 23:51:54 LET'S WE ARE INSANITY!!!! 23:51:54 Totally. 23:52:27 -!- cal153 has quit. 23:52:42 zzo38, let's! 23:52:52 by the way, Sgeo 23:52:54 I have a story for you 23:53:00 Once upon a time, DON'T DROP YOUR FUCKING LAPTOP. 23:53:01 The end. 23:53:14 -!- cal153 has joined. 23:53:39 You can drop your regular laptop. 23:53:48 But if you drop your fucking one, it'll hurt a LOT. 23:54:01 elliott, Sgeo has a rare genetic disorder that causes his fingers to constantly exude butter. 23:54:12 Hey ooVoo, thanks so much for sending me my password in an email 23:54:15 It's fantastically useful when making toast, but a curse at all other times 23:54:55 Hey Sgeo, we really don't care that you've found yet another shitty piece of Windows/OS X-only software. 23:55:33 [[ [ -verify_vps ] - Spew VP crcs to vp_crcs.txt 23:55:33 ]] LIES 23:55:48 Phantom_Hoover: I would think it's only helpful for a very small part of the toast-making process. 23:55:53 elliott: I corrected the problem you were having with the Enhanced CWEB. The version number is still 0.3 because it is only a minor fix (commenting out a line in "platform.h" and adding a short file "how_to_compile.txt") 23:55:55 Otherwise you're just risking getting butter in your toast. 23:56:03 [[[phantomhoover@phantomhoover-laptop:~]$ locate vp_crcs.txt (10-22 23:52)]] (there's no output) 23:56:30 If you have a rare genetic disorder like that then wear gloves 23:56:51 zzo38: I have Sgeo's disorder and *also* a rare genetic disorder that causes gloves to disintegrate when they touch my hands. 23:56:54 The usual locate is very uninstantaneous, you know. 23:56:58 Please advise. 23:57:01 elliott: I corrected the problem you were having with the Enhanced CWEB. The version number is still 0.3 because it is only a minor fix (commenting out a line in "platform.h" and adding a short file "how_to_compile.txt") 23:57:04 which problem was that again? 23:57:58 elliott: What do *you* think? 23:58:21 zzo38, regrettably, most healthcare plans do not cover digitus butyrus. 23:58:23 zzo38: I... can I have a real answer please? 23:58:52 elliott: OK. It is the problem that it could not compile PicoC 23:59:23 huh, i've forgotten