←2010-10-22 2010-10-23 2010-10-24→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:00:01 <zzo38> That is OK, because it is corrected now.
00:00:20 <elliott> That's... zen.
00:02:11 -!- antivigilante has joined.
00:12:28 <nooga> http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2010/Oct/344
00:12:29 <nooga> LOL
00:13:46 <Gregor> Wow, that's badsauce.
00:14:15 <Gregor> This is a low impact issue that is only of interest to security professionals and system administrators, end users do not need to be concerned.
00:14:16 <Gregor> It is possible to exploit this confusion to execute arbitrary code as root.
00:14:21 <Gregor> Uhhhh, that makes a lot of sense.
00:15:16 <pikhq> ... You're mother-fucking kidding me, right?
00:15:53 <pikhq> They actually made LD_AUDIT load arbitrary libraries?
00:16:17 <Gregor> That's how we rooooollllll
00:16:29 <pikhq> That is absolutely positively moronic.
00:16:44 <elliott> LOL GLIBC
00:17:04 <elliott> GLIBC
00:17:06 <elliott> USE GLIBC EVERY DAY
00:17:16 <elliott> 1,000,000 GIGABYTES OF PURE AWESOME
00:17:19 <Gregor> I LOVE that the exploit shown on that page is pretty much all the exploit anyone would ever need to do anything.
00:17:32 <Gregor> Just set that to /etc/passwd and you can have a user-writable password database :P
00:18:43 <elliott> "Major distributions should be releasing updated glibc packages shortly."
00:18:44 <elliott> BUGGER.
00:19:26 <elliott> that's amazing btw
00:19:27 <elliott> mad props
00:19:40 <elliott> now try that with statically-linked newlib :)
00:19:59 <elliott> but wait, i thought using an advanced dynamically-linked libc totally enhanced security?!?!
00:20:31 <pikhq> AHAHAHAHAH.
00:20:46 <elliott> pikhq: "Advisory live, http://goo.gl/UQmE. It's low impact, but is an interesting little vulnerability."
00:20:49 <elliott> pikhq: he's gotta be sarcastic
00:21:02 <pikhq> "Low impact"?
00:21:03 <elliott> I'm preparing an advisory for publication this afternoon. It's low impact, but a nice elegant vulnerability. I'm really proud of it.
00:21:04 <elliott> My technique for discouraging journos from harassing me will be making it so TL;DR that only geeks will be able to read it. Fingers crossed.
00:21:05 <elliott> Advisory live, http://goo.gl/UQmE. It's low impact, but is an interesting little vulnerability.
00:21:08 <elliott> pikhq: see middle messge
00:21:09 <elliott> *message
00:21:23 <pikhq> Gorgeous.
00:21:26 <elliott> then someone else goes
00:21:28 <pikhq> Props.
00:21:29 <elliott> "@taviso has an interesting definition of "low impact"."
00:21:33 <elliott> he replise "@leifnixon Sorry, you're free to use your own scale for your advisories. I just provide enough detail for you to assess the impact yourself."
00:21:52 <pikhq> At least it's not a *remote* hole.
00:22:02 <Gregor> "All users have root privileges" = no big deal.
00:22:12 <elliott> Gregor: ITT: sarcasm
00:22:19 <pikhq> Gregor: Compared with "All people have root privileges". :P
00:22:21 <elliott> pikhq: oh man i hope a wonderful remote hole appears very soon
00:22:25 <elliott> that just allows unprivileged access
00:22:32 <elliott> then we can combine them
00:22:33 <Gregor> "Low impact"
00:22:36 <elliott> and RULE THE WORLD
00:22:38 <Gregor> "SSH neglects to check root password"
00:22:39 <elliott> Gregor: Yes. Sarcasm.
00:22:41 <elliott> :D
00:22:49 <elliott> "SSH actively searches for connections, gives them all root access"
00:23:00 <elliott> "Fills in 'rm -rf /' automatically"
00:23:07 <elliott> "Presses enter after 3 ms of inactivity"
00:23:23 <Gregor> "OpenBSD team found dead, suicide suspected."
00:23:33 <Sgeo> "Low impact"
00:23:48 <elliott> "Rocks fall, everybody dies"
00:23:59 <Sgeo> "No impact to anyone alive"
00:24:09 <pikhq> "OpenSSH sets the login banner to /etc/shadow followed by a link to a rainbow table based on the system salt."
00:24:12 <elliott> "[enhancement; priority: low] Program causes unFriendly AI to take over the universe and replace it with subatomic paperclips"
00:24:40 <elliott> "OpenSSH unleashes Cthulhu every five seconds"
00:25:09 <Gregor> "OpenSSH killed my grandmother"
00:25:52 <elliott> pikhq:
00:25:53 <elliott> 253 if (__builtin_expect (*name == '$', 0))
00:25:53 <elliott> 254 {
00:25:54 <elliott> --glibc
00:26:02 <elliott> As far as I can tell, it never checks that *name actually == '$'.
00:26:23 <Sgeo> Just that it's expected to be $?
00:26:31 <Gregor> Uhh, yeah, I think __builtin_expect just informs GCC to expect that that's true.
00:26:32 <pikhq> elliott: Actually, that *does* check that *name equals '$'.
00:26:35 <Gregor> It doesn't actually evaluate it.
00:26:40 <elliott> Ohh, right.
00:26:43 <pikhq> __builtin_expect(x, y) is x.
00:26:46 <elliott> Right.
00:26:48 <Gregor> Oh
00:26:51 <pikhq> It just informs GCC that y is the most likely value.
00:26:56 <elliott> pikhq: I like how the NAME SUCKS.
00:27:06 <pikhq> It does suck massively.
00:27:10 <elliott> I would expect __builtin_expect(x, y) to be true iff x is expected to equal y.
00:27:25 <Gregor> __builtin_kill_elliott_with_fire
00:27:28 <Gregor> ()
00:27:43 <elliott> I'm glad to know you care.
00:28:31 -!- Zuu has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:29:34 -!- catseye has joined.
00:29:49 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, so what is the point?
00:29:58 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, what manner of beast *are* you?
00:30:29 <Phantom_Hoover> (FWIW, that exploit seems to have been patched for me, or I did something wrong)
00:30:46 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: It allows GCC to generate better code -- the code for the expected side of the branch will be placed such that the branch predictor will predict that's what's going to be followed.
00:30:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
00:31:12 <Phantom_Hoover> "exec zsh" — the last line of my .bashrc.
00:31:27 <Phantom_Hoover> There is something deeply unsettling about this, but I'm not sure what
00:33:03 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: A Windows Vista-using, PowerShell-abusing beast. Oh yes!
00:33:49 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, a ventriloquist act?
00:33:59 -!- storkbot has joined.
00:34:36 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: nick tends to match account name. is all
00:34:57 <catseye> last time before this year i was active on freenode, 'catseye' was totally taken.
00:35:11 <catseye> seems to have been something of an exodus since then.
00:35:22 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, do you have some deep connection with cats' eyes?
00:36:08 * pikhq "loves" how a compile job seems to make the disk scheduler act retarded.
00:36:16 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: It's so deep, I have to wear all black, smoke slim cigarettes and have largish, purple-tinted glasses. Yes.
00:36:38 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: ok, you missed that bit. (I have an iMac at work now, so I'm one of Them.)
00:36:51 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, I always knew Good Omens was a true story.
00:37:22 <catseye> will google it when finished noms
00:38:12 <Sgeo> Oh, fuck
00:38:29 <Sgeo> .....it's sad that that's the first thing I remembered
00:38:33 <elliott> Sgeo: what
00:38:35 <catseye> hello to you too, Sgeo
00:39:10 * Sgeo feels like leaving elliott in the dark
00:39:27 <elliott> Sgeo: ...just tell me?
00:40:02 <Phantom_Hoover> BAH
00:40:06 <elliott> def forward(p1, p2)
00:40:06 <elliott> until (buffer = p1.read_nonblock(4096)).empty?
00:40:06 <elliott> p2.write buffer
00:40:06 <elliott> end
00:40:06 <elliott> end
00:40:09 <Sgeo> Aziraphale, an angel, as he stepped into some.. circle thingy that pretty much .. debodied him
00:40:12 <Sgeo> *after
00:40:20 <elliott> Sgeo: ...why is that "oh fuck"
00:40:23 <elliott> catseye: i am totally starting this multi-language netcat thing
00:40:27 <elliott> catseye: (see forward function)
00:40:33 <elliott> i think you could rewrite that as
00:40:45 <elliott> p2.write buffer until (buffer = p1.read_nonblock(4096)).empty?
00:40:46 <elliott> but hahaha no
00:40:47 <Sgeo> elliott, he had some rather important things to do
00:40:50 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: is the thing about the angel upsetting you, too?
00:40:55 <elliott> Sgeo: IT'S A FUCKING NOVEL
00:41:02 <catseye> elliott: i can see, you are
00:41:10 <elliott> catseye: I can see you're.
00:41:11 <Sgeo> HAHAHAHHA
00:41:19 <catseye> elliott: NO
00:41:21 * Sgeo decides to keep leaving elliott in the dark
00:41:21 <elliott> Sgeo has gone batshit fucking insane at last.
00:41:24 <Sgeo> This is hilarious
00:41:27 <catseye> grammarfuck
00:41:40 <elliott> Sgeo: are you on drugs or just a fucking moron?
00:42:16 <Sgeo> Or you misread something I said
00:42:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, start talking or I'm going to fly to New York, hunt you down, and beat you about the head with a bar of soap until you talk.
00:42:37 <elliott> Sgeo: oh, i see
00:42:40 <elliott> you used * highly ambiguously
00:42:47 <elliott> and still shed no light at all on why the hell you'd say that
00:42:52 <elliott> and have now gone psychotic because of it
00:42:58 <Sgeo> No, you don't see
00:43:12 <elliott> Aziraphale, after stepping onto some debodying thing, said "Oh, fuck".
00:43:19 <Sgeo> There we go
00:43:23 <elliott> Yes.
00:43:26 <elliott> <Sgeo> Aziraphale, an angel, as he stepped into some.. circle thingy that pretty much .. debodied him
00:43:26 <elliott> <Sgeo> *after
00:43:29 <elliott> "*after" being almost useless here.
00:43:43 <catseye> detrimental, really
00:43:49 <catseye> *he said => much better
00:44:02 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: :(
00:44:30 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: adieu, brave ecto-thing!
00:44:44 <elliott> *octo-thing
00:45:28 <Mathnerd314> stupid client; why did it highlight that line?
00:46:24 <elliott> Mathnerd314: because octo
00:46:34 <catseye> stupid idea, before i forget
00:47:22 <catseye> "if x" -> "bool(x)", "x then y" -> "x && y", "x else y" -> "(!x) && y", with appropriate precedence
00:47:26 <Mathnerd314> elliott: I still don't know why it highlighted it
00:47:54 <elliott> Mathnerd314: because you are being subjected to a neon meate dream of a octafish
00:48:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
00:48:07 <elliott> catseye: breaks down when y in "x then y" is false
00:48:15 <catseye> bonus: you can yuse "then" like you would ";" sort of and it sort of reads out loud ok
00:48:32 <elliott> also, don't you mean "x else y" => "x || y"?
00:48:43 <catseye> elliott: maybe
00:48:45 <elliott> otherwise y is always executed
00:48:53 <elliott> wait maybe not
00:48:55 <elliott> well whatever
00:49:17 <catseye> it;d not developed yet
00:49:20 <catseye> *it's
00:49:42 <elliott> catseye: yes you definitely do
00:49:45 <elliott> consider x being true
00:49:49 <elliott> then "x else y" is false
00:49:51 <elliott> but if you do
00:49:59 <elliott> (if x then y else z) then ...
00:50:01 <elliott> then if x
00:50:04 <elliott> ... is never executed
00:50:07 <elliott> only if !x is ... executed
00:50:09 <elliott> you definitely mean ||
00:50:38 <catseye> the result was not as important to me as the simulation of the control structure
00:51:00 <elliott> great, i have a ruby question :P
00:51:07 <catseye> i.e.if..then..else was not an expr, in my mind
00:51:14 <catseye> i k ow rby
00:51:16 <catseye> YESSS
00:51:18 <elliott> mm
00:51:19 <elliott> catseye: what
00:51:33 <catseye> (noms)
00:51:39 <elliott> RCSID = %w$Id: optparse.rb 27089 2010-03-29 09:10:12Z nobu $[1..-1].each {|s| s.freeze}.freeze
00:51:40 <elliott> i...
00:51:41 <catseye> elliott: What is your Ruby q?
00:51:45 * elliott tries to figure out how that works
00:52:03 <elliott> catseye: "when using OptionParser, can i do opts.something to show the help screen?"
00:52:03 <elliott> wait no
00:52:06 <elliott> that's obnoxious
00:52:09 <elliott> i don't even want to do that
00:52:09 <elliott> hooray
00:52:36 <catseye> going to totally write some ruby tonight man
00:52:40 <Sgeo> elliott is using Ruby?
00:52:41 <elliott> are you
00:52:43 <Sgeo> What is the world coming to?
00:52:59 <catseye> Sgeo: no, he is using Java
00:53:04 <quintopia> catseye: what have you been smoking btw?
00:53:04 <elliott> Sgeo: i used ruby for years...
00:53:12 <Sgeo> I thought you disliked Ruby
00:53:23 <elliott> yes well
00:53:25 <catseye> quintopia: slim cigarettes -- obv you missed that pt
00:53:26 <elliott> i might dislike python even more.
00:53:31 <catseye> also, noms
00:53:38 <quintopia> indeed i did
00:53:42 <elliott> catseye is eating names
00:53:47 <quintopia> do you not smoke very often?
00:53:52 <Sgeo> I wonder if I should force myself to try Ruby again
00:54:20 <Sgeo> I think what I disliked most about it was the "There's more than one way to do it" philosophy it inherited from Perl
00:54:35 <catseye> Mostly i am smoking French names, yes.
00:54:51 <elliott> Sgeo: no.
00:54:54 <elliott> you do not need more languages.
00:55:08 <catseye> Someone stop Sgeo before he falls in love again!
00:55:25 <Sgeo> Easy way to stop me falling in love: Force me to work with it
00:55:37 <elliott> catseye: man writing this netcat in ruby is far harder than in python because i'm not used to it but i'm not wanting to stab the code i write
00:55:43 <Sgeo> Languages I must work with I hate, and languages I don't have to work with I end up having love affairs with
00:55:46 <elliott> Sgeo: but you never work with anything
00:55:58 <Sgeo> Second Life forces LSL
00:56:04 <elliott> pffrtahtahtahahahaha
00:56:11 <Sgeo> Creatures forces CAOS (not that I ever programmed much in CAOS)
00:56:16 <elliott> catseye: i think this is the thing -- ruby is a not-so-ideal language but you can be happy with what you write in it
00:56:23 <elliott> you just have to give up your sanity
00:56:37 <Sgeo> The Project forced C#
00:56:46 <Sgeo> Although C# is nice, I'm not madly in love
00:56:56 <elliott> "forced"
00:57:02 <catseye> elliott: Yes -- same for any scripting language, really, but some of them make you give up different aspects of your sanity than others.
00:57:11 <catseye> And amount, certainly.
00:57:20 <catseye> *different amounts
00:58:16 <catseye> I am now under the impression that if you keep a somewhat Chindogu-esque outlook, Ruby will not eat your entire brain, and you can get by.
00:58:24 <elliott> catseye: i just can't hate it, you know?
00:58:26 <elliott> matz is too nice.
00:58:38 <elliott> he made a programming language! it has libraries and things.
00:58:41 <elliott> you can write prorgams with it!
00:58:49 <elliott> hooray, right???
00:58:54 <catseye> Also, for any language, I figure, half the trick is knowing what half the language to never use.
00:58:55 <elliott> it has smalltalk and lisp in it!
00:59:05 <Sgeo> And PERL
00:59:08 <elliott> *Perl
00:59:09 <elliott> Perl
00:59:09 <elliott> Perl
00:59:10 <elliott> Perl
00:59:29 <Sgeo> If I said SMALLTALK, would you chastise me?
00:59:49 <elliott> netcat.rb:37:in `<main>': invalid option: --sdf (OptionParser::InvalidOption)
00:59:51 <elliott> a bit ugly...
01:00:47 <elliott> catseye: Ruby odd-but-really-useful: list[n] is nil when list.length <= n
01:00:57 <elliott> surprisingly, i never had any bugs due to this.
01:01:18 <catseye> elliott: feels a bit like how the default value of all keys in a Lua table is nil.
01:01:37 <elliott> netcat.rb:7:in `read_nonblock': Resource temporarily unavailable - read would block (Errno::EAGAIN)
01:01:40 <elliott> uh, okay...
01:01:44 <catseye> that it's an exception in Python took some getting used to.
01:02:00 <catseye> elliott: *that* seems like unix rather than ruby, right there
01:02:05 <elliott> catseye: well it is
01:02:08 <elliott> i'm using read_nonblock
01:02:10 <elliott> here be dragons
01:02:14 <elliott> catseye: python is basically BDSM: The Language
01:02:14 <catseye> yeah, garf
01:02:40 <catseye> "I can't do a nonblocking read because it would block" -- ohhh kayyyyy...
01:04:07 <elliott> catseye: it's... yeah, unix.
01:04:19 <Sgeo> ....?
01:04:31 <Sgeo> Wait, unix makes what should be a nonblocking call block?
01:04:38 <elliott> Sgeo: try reading
01:04:56 <Sgeo> Oh
01:05:02 <catseye> elliott: No, he'll block!
01:05:59 <catseye> ok *cracks knuckles* plan for tonight: write catbus
01:06:22 <catseye> although, perhaps i should be scared off by nonblocking reads
01:06:50 <elliott> catseye: not really
01:06:53 <elliott> i can help \o/
01:06:54 <myndzi> |
01:06:54 <myndzi> |\
01:07:00 <elliott> catseye: anyway i can get the frontpage from google now
01:07:11 <Sgeo> Why would it be impossible to read certain resources without blocking? Unless that read_noblock doesn't use a callback...
01:07:26 <Sgeo> Wait, no
01:07:41 <Sgeo> There would be no available UNIX thingy to read it without blocking?
01:07:42 <Sgeo> Why?
01:09:06 <catseye> Sgeo: hint: EAGAIN is not "really" an error
01:09:21 <catseye> Much like Snow White is not a dwarf.
01:09:37 <Sgeo> Ooooooooooooh
01:09:37 <catseye> Well, maybe not *that* much like that.
01:10:04 <Sgeo> Ok, so what was the problem that whoever was having?
01:10:11 <Sgeo> It's just a failure to use the method properly
01:10:23 <Sgeo> Erm, maybe
01:10:28 <elliott> catseye: spot the bug:
01:10:29 <elliott> select_on = [sock, input]
01:10:29 <elliott> until sock.closed?
01:10:29 <elliott> forward input, sock
01:10:29 <elliott> forward sock, output
01:10:29 <elliott> IO.select(select_on, select_on, select_on)
01:10:31 <elliott> end
01:11:00 <Sgeo> Shoud there be a block somewhere there?
01:11:24 <catseye> um, nothing jumps out at me except that I should think there is a prev call to IO.select you're not showing, or you should be using awhile loop instead
01:11:36 <Sgeo> Wait, until is syntactic magic?
01:11:39 * Sgeo headaches
01:11:46 <Sgeo> Bring me back to Smalltalk please
01:11:50 <catseye> I assume until .. end is syntax
01:11:56 <elliott> catseye: er right it should be the other way around
01:11:59 <elliott> but no
01:12:00 <elliott> it's just EOF handling
01:12:02 <elliott> when input gets EOF
01:12:04 <elliott> we should keep going
01:12:06 <elliott> but when sock gets EOF
01:12:09 <elliott> we need to return
01:12:11 * elliott adds fugly handling-code
01:12:20 <catseye> yep, broken symmetry i suppose
01:12:38 * catseye denies the existence of the end of any file
01:12:39 <Sgeo> Fuck large syntaxes. Give me one dose of Smalltalk, please.
01:12:45 <elliott> Sgeo: fuck off.
01:12:55 <elliott> syntaxes aren't hard.
01:13:06 <elliott> this idea that syntax somehow super over complexifies a language is bullshit
01:13:08 <Sgeo> But they're also not beautiful
01:13:10 <elliott> smalltalk doesn't even have macros, it gains nothing!
01:13:12 <elliott> yes they are
01:13:18 <elliott> over-minimalism is not beauty
01:13:46 <elliott> catseye: it is totally ugly now but i can handle that alter
01:13:47 <elliott> *later
01:13:48 <Sgeo> :(
01:14:06 <catseye> All I can say is my subjective opinion: Scheme si, Smalltalk nein, Python or Lua sigh sure why not, Ruby or Perl well... urrggh ok
01:14:06 <elliott> Sgeo: sorry, but it's really irritating seeing this all the time.
01:14:20 <elliott> catseye: YOU WILL LEARN TO LIKE RUBY MORE THAN PYTHON i swear i feel liberated
01:14:30 <elliott> like i can experience a whole new world of shittiness without obeying guido every other keypress
01:14:41 <catseye> Haskell somewhere in between Python and Ruby
01:14:49 <catseye> elliott: I loved Perl once, so it is possible
01:14:54 <Sgeo> Why nein on Smalltalk?
01:15:14 <catseye> Sgeo: I can't say why but the method invokation thing drives me bonkers.
01:15:16 <elliott> catseye: wait actually maybe i should quit on input EOF
01:15:20 <elliott> only source for this: my netcat does :P
01:15:24 <elliott> oh no wait
01:15:42 <elliott> almost nailed it
01:15:47 <elliott> rescue EOFError
01:15:47 <elliott> sock.close_write
01:15:48 <elliott> end
01:15:49 <elliott> or something
01:15:55 <elliott> t'works
01:17:10 <catseye> I actually prefer the Pascal-level of syntax complexity (C is close to that too)
01:17:30 <catseye> oh also
01:17:44 <catseye> hm, i'll google
01:17:54 <elliott> catseye: no no tell
01:17:59 <elliott> catseye: also i am *so close* to making my own language aargh
01:18:12 <elliott> like lua, right, but with some shorter keywords, actual arrays, actual integers
01:18:15 <elliott> and a few rubyish niceties
01:18:19 <elliott> also an actual stdlib
01:18:55 <catseye> elliott: ditto
01:19:21 <catseye> or rather, taking my "going to make my own language" thing out of the last place it ended up and trying again
01:19:21 <elliott> catseye: we should totally CO LABBOR ATE
01:19:25 <elliott> CO LABBOR 8
01:19:47 <catseye> elliott: we possibly totally should.
01:19:59 <elliott> catseye: ok clearly it needs a name.
01:20:00 <elliott> :P
01:20:09 <catseye> (valley girl speak BORROWING into catseye idiolect english)
01:20:11 <elliott> catseye: continuing on with the merd theme, may i suggest "rape"?
01:20:24 <elliott> "What did you write your awesome new webframework in?"
01:20:25 <elliott> "Rape!"
01:20:26 <catseye> you may _suggest_ it...
01:20:34 <elliott> "Hey, what's the slogan of your favourite language again?"
01:20:45 <elliott> "I'm Going To Rape You (And Your Codebase)!(TM)"
01:20:48 <elliott> "Jesus fucking christ man."
01:21:17 <catseye> let's revisit this idea later
01:21:21 <quintopia> i've got a good one!
01:21:33 <quintopia> let's call it "rape jokes aren't funny >:("
01:22:21 <elliott> quintopia: They're as funny as racist jokes.
01:22:25 <elliott> And racist jokes (can be) hilarious.
01:22:48 <elliott> Also jew jokes, dead baby jokes, etc. etc.
01:23:16 <quintopia> no they're different
01:23:23 <quintopia> because people actually do get raped and it's horrible
01:23:27 <quintopia> but races?
01:23:28 <quintopia> nah
01:23:32 <quintopia> jews?
01:23:32 <quintopia> nah
01:23:35 <elliott> quintopia: People died in the holocaust too.
01:23:36 <quintopia> dead babies?
01:23:38 <elliott> And people get murdered.
01:23:43 <quintopia> they're dead so how can they complain?
01:23:45 <elliott> And awful shit happens to everyone and that has nothing to do with joking about it or not.
01:23:57 <elliott> and i have the distinct feeling you're trolling me
01:24:06 <quintopia> elliott: holocaust jokes are also not funny when they speak of people being murdered
01:24:10 <quintopia> murder jokes: also not funny
01:24:25 <elliott> quintopia: http://harmful.cat-v.org/pc.jpg
01:24:58 <quintopia> what does that have to do with anything?
01:25:03 <elliott> Everything.
01:25:06 <quintopia> i'm not saying anything about being PC
01:25:11 <quintopia> or any of those things
01:25:28 <elliott> Your standards for jokes are ridiculous and I refuse to abide by them, as does every sane person.
01:25:42 <elliott> Feel free to /ignore *rape|murder|hurt|pain|unhappiness|:(*
01:25:47 <catseye> quintopia: is there anything in bad taste that you do find funny? fart jokes, perhaps?
01:25:55 <quintopia> pain hurt and unhappiness are all HILARIOUS
01:26:08 <elliott> I think I will subject quintopia to a billion years of intense, agonising pain.
01:26:13 <elliott> Then we can reconvene.
01:26:32 <quintopia> murder is okay SOMETIMES actually
01:26:42 <quintopia> rape is really really hard to laugh at
01:27:29 <elliott> perhaps for you
01:27:48 <elliott> can we perhaps make a distinction between things you find easy to laugh at and things that people are bad for saying?
01:27:51 <elliott> thanks
01:29:09 <quintopia> yes
01:29:17 <quintopia> definitely make that distinction
01:29:25 <elliott> quintopia: ok. it is made.
01:29:29 <quintopia> but know that rape jokes are uncommonly unfunny
01:29:36 <elliott> perhaps.
01:29:37 <quintopia> for many many people
01:29:38 <elliott> but not because they are about rape.
01:29:49 <elliott> quintopia: we get it! rape sucks.
01:29:58 <elliott> i guess you hate most comedians, huh.
01:30:21 <elliott> ok admittedly 99% of comedians suck but that's not the point
01:30:56 <quintopia> how does that even make sense? "not because they are about rape"? you're suggesting that "maybe this class of jokes is not funny, but it's not because it is this class of jokes"
01:31:01 <quintopia> logic much?
01:31:09 <Sgeo> My friend's sister was murdered last year
01:31:45 <catseye> something can be both in offensively bad taste, *and* funny. the two are not the same thing.
01:31:47 <elliott> Sgeo: did you just say that to make us feel bad, or... what?
01:32:20 <quintopia> catseye: he said "but not because they are about rape" not "but not because they are in offensively bad taste"
01:32:28 <quintopia> i could understand the latter
01:32:42 <catseye> quintopia: well, presumably, they are in offensively bad taste because they are about rape
01:32:51 <elliott> quintopia sounds like a barrel of laughs.
01:32:53 <catseye> that seems a trivial inference
01:33:00 <elliott> quintopia: so wait
01:33:06 <elliott> dead baby jokes -- ok because they're dead
01:33:09 <Sgeo> Just that even though no murdered person would find a murder joke offensive, there are people who would naturally get upset at those kinds of jokes
01:33:13 <elliott> quintopia: surely murder jokes are ok because the victims are dead?
01:33:16 <quintopia> no, it may be something about rape other than its bad taste that makes rape jokes unfunny
01:33:19 <elliott> Sgeo: they are free not to read them.
01:33:20 <quintopia> i think this may be true
01:41:06 <catseye> i... am tempted to go into evolutionary psychology and a theory of humour, but i'm too lazy to type it all out, and besides, it's such a buzzkill.
01:43:06 <catseye> elliott: is "irb" a legit filename extension for ruby scripts? that seems weird, shouldn't it be just "rb"?
01:43:19 <elliott> catseye: yes. what file in particular?
01:43:27 <catseye> elliott: that guy with the 3 netcats
01:43:33 <elliott> catseye: he's probably a moron
01:43:35 <elliott> wait for netcat.rb
01:43:37 <catseye> though his style was... inconsistent at best
01:43:37 <elliott> it's the best thing since sliced rape
01:44:45 <catseye> i await it with baited tsunami coastal disaster
01:46:34 -!- antivigilante has quit (Quit: Ex-Chat).
01:46:57 -!- antivigilante has joined.
01:47:25 <catseye> *bated, i guess, to be correct
01:48:03 <elliott> it's totally 88 lines right now but that will change
01:49:26 <catseye> 3-nc-guy also follows the "This is my program; here the class for my program" pattern, which is... not the hallmark of excellent engineering
01:49:40 <pikhq> Sgeo: I dunno about you, but I love dark humor. Joking about a horrible thing does not in any way suggest that it's *good*, just that it is, in fact, a part of human existence.
01:50:01 <catseye> Is your program designed to be extended? No? Then it is a class because... you don't know what you're doing. Alright...
01:50:14 <Sgeo> pikhq, I think... I'd feel terrible making a joke myself
01:50:14 <elliott> pikhq: what's better than gassing three baby jews?
01:50:17 <elliott> raping them once they're dead
01:50:30 <Sgeo> elliott, there was no joke
01:50:35 <elliott> i'm laughing
01:50:44 <olsner> if he's laughing it's a joke
01:51:08 <elliott> I like the idea that you can do anything "non-consensually" to a dead baby.
01:51:34 <pikhq> Sgeo: The *only* thing that, in my mind, could be considered wrong about such a joke is making it to someone who you're aware would be horribly upset by it.
01:51:40 <olsner> if you don't feel right about laughing about raping dead baby jews, laugh about elliot laughing about it
01:51:48 <pikhq> This falls under the common ethical rule, "don't be a dick."
01:51:51 <elliott> *ELLIOTT ELLIOTT ELLIOTT
01:52:00 <elliott> "Sorry, ELLIOTT ELLIOTT ELLIOTT."
01:52:04 <olsner> is 'about' the right preposition though?
01:52:26 <olsner> elliott: whatever
01:52:31 <Sgeo> It's not a matter of not feeling right about laughing
01:52:39 <Sgeo> It's the utter lack of anything resembling humor
01:52:54 <olsner> there is humor to be found in the utter lack of humor
01:53:05 <pikhq> I get the feeling Sgeo wouldn't like Cyanide & Happiness.
01:53:07 <elliott> WHY THIS NO THE WORKY
01:53:09 <catseye> Sgeo: what is humor?
01:53:11 <elliott> pikhq: quintopia even more
01:53:15 <pikhq> It's a dead baby comic!
01:53:16 <Sgeo> pikhq, actually, I do sometimes
01:53:56 <elliott> like catholics, masturbating
01:54:11 <Sgeo> No, not really
01:54:12 <pikhq> elliott: Every sperm is sacred, after all.
01:54:14 <olsner> bah! about 8h ago I had some idea about not getting drunk so that I could be productive and/or creative tomorrow (today)
01:54:29 <catseye> maybe we should go back to evo psych 101: what smiles mean to mammals, and to homo sapiens in specific
01:54:39 <quintopia> elliott: you don't get it. C&H amuses me sometimes.
01:54:59 <quintopia> dead babies amused me when i first heard them
01:55:06 <elliott> my program is high-lariously broken
01:55:08 <elliott> catseye: fix my prog
01:55:09 <catseye> olsner: i have that idea sometimes. put it out of your mind immediately!
01:55:12 <quintopia> (actually, i'm still kind of fond of the "stapled to the chicken" one)
01:55:22 <catseye> elliott: still staring uselessly at my own, thanks
01:55:33 <elliott> catseye: let us call upon matz
01:55:43 <elliott> Dear Matz,
01:55:49 <elliott> This is violating my Principle of Least Surprise.
01:55:49 <elliott> Amen.
01:55:53 <pikhq> quintopia: In fact, the more awful something is, the more it *deserves* to be mocked — let some good come from the most horrible of things.
01:55:53 <elliott> repeat 10 times
01:55:57 <catseye> elliott: no, i would feel bad about bothering him!
01:55:59 <elliott> then check for a new ruby release
01:56:11 <elliott> catseye: he lives only to be nice.
01:56:13 <pikhq> So, I'd say Holocaust jokes are fundamentally necessary.
01:56:21 <catseye> canada and japan are both "polite" cultures like that
01:56:26 <elliott> holodeck... or holoCAUST
01:56:32 <elliott> STAR TREK: HITLER
01:56:49 <pikhq> catseye: Quite unlike the US. It is culturally valid for me to do this:
01:56:52 <pikhq> elliott: Because FUCK YOU.
01:57:28 <catseye> and there is a subtle but very important difference between mock and deride, btw
01:57:37 <catseye> but anyway
01:57:41 <catseye> too cerebral
01:57:46 <pikhq> catseye: Pray tell?
01:57:51 <elliott> http://editgif.com/406/2 i could stare at this all day, looping
01:58:45 <olsner> catseye: I did, now I'm wasted and tomorrow will be a son-of-a-bitch
01:59:16 <catseye> pikhq: perhaps those were not the best choice of words either. i only mean that there are several functions wrapped inside "humor"...
01:59:27 <pikhq> catseye: Ah.
01:59:32 <catseye> or maybe "laughing" would be a better base of BORING analysis of this
02:00:03 <catseye> i tend to prefer surreal, absurd humour
02:00:03 <pikhq> Best form of formal analysis.
02:00:05 <Sgeo> Why does Opera force me to click the flash before interacting?
02:00:13 <pikhq> Screw complex analysis, boring analysis is where it's at.
02:00:15 <Sgeo> Actually, come to think of it, that makes good sense for some situations
02:00:16 <olsner> (the second-to-last guy at work (I was the last one) made me figure out where the rest of the people went for drinks, and we joined them, and there were pitchers of marguarita)
02:00:36 <elliott> it's bad if putting a printf-debug after an IO.select call spews out quickly, right?
02:00:37 <elliott> forever?
02:01:01 <olsner> iirc, showing plugin contents without previous interaction is patented or something silly like that
02:01:16 <elliott> fix'd
02:01:18 <elliott> wait no
02:01:19 <catseye> boring analysis tends to get holes in it over time
02:01:29 <pikhq> :)
02:01:36 <olsner> what makes much more sense is to have on-demand plugins that don't even get loaded from the network until you click something
02:02:31 <Sgeo> olsner, FlashBlock basically
02:02:47 <Sgeo> I think Opera's getting that sort of functionality native in 11
02:03:00 <olsner> yeah, you can probably make that as an extension in Opera 11
02:03:07 <olsner> or do it in all opera versions with userjs
02:03:53 <Sgeo> Wouldn't userjs just make it invisible?
02:03:56 -!- antivigilante has left (?).
02:04:21 <pikhq> Pretty sure you can remove it from the DOM.
02:04:38 <olsner> depends on the loading order and stuff, you probably can't be sure it gets removed before loading starts
02:05:01 <Sgeo> Removing it from the DOM != preventing whatever's in there from starting to load
02:06:00 <olsner> the instant the flash plugin starts, you're doomed - address space corrupted, event loops infiltrated, the keylogger has set up the keygrab on the X server and so on
02:07:41 <catseye> elliott: that sounds kind of bad but dunno
02:08:25 <Sgeo> I guess I'm used to Flash causing pain
02:08:33 <elliott> catseye: wow that netcat-in-ruby is *awfully* written
02:08:42 <elliott> ;s everywhere, four-space indentation, "while( ... )" instead of just "while ..."
02:08:46 <elliott> just...
02:08:49 <elliott> terrible in every way
02:08:56 <Sgeo> What's wrong with four-space indentation?
02:09:16 <elliott> in Ruby?
02:09:18 <elliott> it's Just Not Done
02:09:21 <elliott> like two-space indentation in Python
02:09:40 <catseye> elliott: how many spaces usually, in ruby?
02:09:41 <olsner> why would you ever indent with *4* of anything? indent 0 or 1
02:09:50 <elliott> catseye: 2
02:10:02 <elliott> olsner: i sympathise absolutely, i really do
02:10:08 <elliott> olsner: my platonic perfect language will use tabs.
02:10:09 <catseye> I use 4-space almost universally in Python and C (now), 2-space in Perl
02:10:10 <elliott> i swear.
02:10:11 <elliott> well
02:10:13 <elliott> it won't use ascii at all
02:10:14 <elliott> but
02:10:14 <elliott> you know.
02:10:22 <catseye> much of my older C is BSD style though (tabs! gadzooks!)
02:10:27 <olsner> elliott: it should use abstract units of indentation
02:10:35 <elliott> NO INDENT CODE
02:10:37 <elliott> FREE YOURSELF
02:10:38 <elliott> FROM STRUCTURE
02:10:48 <elliott> ever see forth guys arguing about indentation? :)
02:11:03 <olsner> ever see forth guys?
02:11:17 <catseye> beer to olsner!
02:11:24 <elliott> olsner: :D
02:13:06 <olsner> I think indentation is nice because it is a visual representation of the tree structure most programs make
02:13:40 <olsner> linked basic blocks in an arbitrary graph is closer to the truth though (... in *imperative* programs, I guess)
02:14:07 <elliott> olsner: "I guess you could do A and then B... if you're the kind of person who writes *imperative* programs... heh."
02:14:42 <olsner> I guess elliott could do A and then B regardless of what kind of person he is
02:14:58 <olsner> ... because that's the kind of person he is?
02:15:20 <olsner> what's A and B again?
02:15:23 <quintopia> we need grasp
02:17:18 <elliott> quintopia: we... what?
02:17:39 <olsner> elliott: grasp! do you have it?
02:17:39 <quintopia> the completely graph oriented language...
02:19:49 * olsner builds a graph and orients a language along it
02:20:15 <quintopia> you're going downhill olsner
02:20:38 <quintopia> "ever see forth guys?" will forever be known as your pinnacle unless you pull it together
02:30:10 <pikhq> olsner: Editors should simply present visual representations of the tree structure of the program.
02:30:54 <pikhq> olsner: Rather than simply rendering the text that happens to be in the language syntax.
02:31:17 <pikhq> For instance, it *should* be perfectly feasible to display sexp Lisp using mexps.
02:31:27 * Sgeo has a strong feeling that others have had that idea before, and it never turned out well
02:31:33 <Sgeo> mexp?
02:31:49 <pikhq> Syntactic sugar for sexps.
02:32:18 <Sgeo> Why do you need syntactic sugar for sexps?
02:32:20 <pikhq> It was *intended* that sexps were just the behind-the-scenes representation of things. Didn't take off because the first Lisp interpreter didn't bother to handle them.
02:32:32 <pikhq> ... So that 2+2 is a meaningful expression?
02:32:53 <Sgeo> Ah
02:33:11 <Sgeo> That sounds awesome
02:33:19 <Sgeo> So, what about, say, (+ 2 2 2)
02:33:24 <Sgeo> What does mexps do there?
02:33:25 <Sgeo> *do
02:33:53 <elliott> mexp for (+ 2 2 2) is +[2;2;2]
02:33:54 <pikhq> 2+2+2 or +[2; 2; 2], I'm pretty sure.
02:34:57 <elliott> Sgeo: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/86/212588975_5fa840ddd2.jpg the original self-evaluator, in s-expressions
02:35:09 <elliott> http://www.arcfn.com/2008/07/maxwells-equations-of-software-examined.html more written-outly
02:35:26 <pikhq> I quite love how the first Lisp interpreter was made.
02:35:52 <elliott> apparently there's a paren mismatch :D
02:36:03 <elliott> http://www.instprog.com/blogposts/McCarthys-eval/memo.png
02:36:05 <elliott> ignore hideous border
02:36:07 <elliott> also unreadability
02:36:07 <elliott> uh
02:36:09 <elliott> http://kazimirmajorinc.blogspot.com/2010/05/interesting-case-of-mismatched.html
02:36:12 <elliott> enjoy shitty blog post to see it
02:39:03 <catseye> < pikhq> olsner: Editors should simply present visual representations of the tree structure of the program.
02:39:27 <catseye> I read a paper once about an IDE that did exactly this, and *omitted names*, replacing them with arcs between nodes.
02:39:34 <pikhq> Whoa.
02:39:37 <catseye> It was highly vitriolic on the evils of names.
02:39:43 <catseye> Almost comically so.
02:39:53 <pikhq> That's somewhat comical, indeed.
02:40:29 -!- augur has joined.
02:44:24 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
03:17:02 -!- Zuu has joined.
03:17:30 -!- Zuu has quit (Changing host).
03:17:31 -!- Zuu has joined.
03:40:26 -!- coppro has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
03:40:31 -!- coppro has joined.
03:40:31 -!- coppro has quit (Changing host).
03:40:31 -!- coppro has joined.
03:55:55 <elliott> coppro: cloak fail
04:00:44 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to Napoleon.
04:00:48 <Napoleon> Registered
04:00:50 -!- Napoleon has changed nick to Sgeo.
04:02:03 <elliott> * Snowball :Nickname is already in use.
05:03:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
05:14:31 <pikhq> elliott: Why am I sleepy *early*?
05:14:38 <pikhq> How does this make any sense?
05:15:39 <elliott> pikhq: about as much sense as me and catseye trying to produce something of actual value...
05:16:33 <pikhq> So, -¢.
05:17:59 <elliott> pikhq: yet both are happening! although the latter in a very confused state
05:19:15 <Gregor> WebSplat now has goombalike enemies.
05:19:22 <elliott> Gregor: favicon yes?
05:19:35 <Gregor> elliott: No, I couldn't figure out howTF to get the favicon from within JS X_X
05:19:46 <elliott> Gregor: Uhh, just try /favicon.ico.
05:19:50 <elliott> Failing that, look at page headers.
05:19:54 <elliott> That's what browsers do.
05:19:57 <elliott> page headers = <meat>
05:19:59 <elliott> *meta
05:20:05 <Gregor> Well, yeah, I could certainly do that >_>
05:20:07 <Gregor> Kinda yukk <_<
05:20:15 <elliott> Gregor: yes, well, favicons are yuck
05:20:16 <elliott> deal with it :P
05:20:25 <Gregor> Fair point :P
05:20:40 <Gregor> Anyway, no, for the moment I'm using yet another quintopia drawing :P
05:20:49 <Gregor> Also, TimeCube has now become CRAZY-HARD.
05:21:15 <elliott> Gregor: DYING TOO EASY
05:21:15 <Gregor> Remember: quintopia's ideas get precedence for the simple reason that he's actually providing data :P
05:21:41 <zzo38> I have on paper I invented a 32-bit CPU architecture. It has byte 32-bits long. Incrementing immediates is impossible. An instruction code has 4-bits condition, 5-bits command, 5-bits operand mode, 1-bit push old value, 1-bit affect flags, 8-bits destination parameter, 8-bits source parameter.
05:22:00 <elliott> Gregor: I need a way to jump even when there's stuff above me.
05:22:05 <elliott> It's simply impossible as is.
05:22:07 <Gregor> elliott: Crouch-jump.
05:22:17 <elliott> Gregor: worst controls ever
05:22:36 <Gregor> elliott: Crouch-jump isn't a special jump, it's ducking through elements then air-jumping :P
05:22:40 <elliott> yes but
05:22:40 <zzo38> And it has eight rings, each with its own registers. There is 128 registers and the other 128 registers are just the memory indexed by the actual 128 registers. Sixty-four registers are special use.
05:22:42 <elliott> the control sucks
05:23:08 <elliott> Gregor: DYING TOO EASY
05:23:12 <Gregor> <elliott> Rather than be helpful I like to complain about things.
05:23:17 <elliott> yse
05:23:18 <elliott> yes i do
05:24:23 <elliott> Gregor: gahaha
05:24:25 <elliott> jump
05:24:26 <elliott> then jump again
05:24:28 <elliott> without moving left or right
05:24:30 <elliott> silliest visual ever
05:24:56 <elliott> Gregor: no wait while holding right
05:24:57 <elliott> zoooooom
05:25:06 <elliott> Gregor: die while jumping; die in mid-air.
05:25:24 <Gregor> Yes, right now you stop suffering from gravity when you die :P
05:25:33 <elliott> "suffering"
05:25:40 <Gregor> Yes!
05:26:07 <zzo38> Does it matter gravity if you are dead? Unless the game can do useful things while dead?
05:26:17 <elliott> Gregor: now give it ragdoll physics
05:26:49 <Gregor> zzo38: It's just an excuse for elliott to complain.
05:26:54 <Gregor> zzo38: Not that he needs 'em.
05:27:18 <elliott> Gregor: i died on theonion.com because i looked away
05:27:18 <elliott> fix it
05:27:23 <elliott> also i'm just providing data.
05:33:30 <elliott> Gregor: so how did you achieve this?
05:33:39 <elliott> Gregor: anyway havenworks
05:34:27 <Gregor> How did I achieve what?
05:34:46 <elliott> goomba collision
05:34:46 <elliott> anyway
05:34:47 <elliott> havenworks
05:34:55 <elliott> what's your high ascore
05:34:56 <zzo38> I have another idea, which is to design a microprocessor that you can dynamically modify microcodes to be optimal for the program you are writing
05:34:57 <elliott> *score
05:35:20 <Gregor> elliott: It's detected like any other collision...
05:35:55 <elliott> Gregor: ...right
05:35:57 <elliott> it's 5:35am
05:36:02 <elliott> *5:35 am
05:37:08 <elliott> Gregor: horizontal scrolling please
05:37:10 <Gregor> elliott: If you ctrl+- enough on HavenWorks before playing, you can get full width :P
05:37:19 <Gregor> elliott: I've tried multiple times and it's been horribly broken each time >_>
05:37:32 <Gregor> elliott: It's stupidly difficult to determine if the page horizontally scrolls <_<
05:38:12 <Gregor> elliott: Basically, every time I've ended up with something that scrolls properly on pages that have horizontal scrolling, but thinks that e.g. Wikipedia's front page is suddenly 3 screens wide for no obvious reason.
05:38:29 <Gregor> Images collected:42
05:38:32 <Gregor> Images remaining:1712
05:38:38 <elliott> Gregor: gimme hp dammit :P
05:38:39 <elliott> also
05:38:40 <elliott> 192
05:38:41 <elliott> ha
05:43:42 <zzo38> Make a game with the periodic table of elements
05:44:05 * Gregor proceeds to google for a page with the periodic table of the elements, play websplat on it, and declare success.
05:44:48 <zzo38> Gregor: That doesn't count.
05:44:55 <Gregor> :P
05:45:02 <zzo38> Make a game with cards with the periodic table of elements.
05:46:05 <zzo38> Make a game that you will win a big spider three times as big as you.
05:46:15 <zzo38> Make a game that you have to prevent all of the magnets from touching each other.
05:46:43 <zzo38> Make a game involving infinite dimensional space.
05:46:50 <elliott> Gregor: 209, still alive
05:47:01 <elliott> now i died
05:47:10 <Gregor> OK, todo:
05:47:11 <Gregor> * HP
05:47:13 <Gregor> * Mushrooms
05:47:31 <zzo38> * Hallucination mushrooms
05:47:35 <zzo38> * Poison mushrooms
05:47:59 <zzo38> * Safe mushroooms
05:47:59 <elliott> * Cocaine
05:51:38 -!- sftp has joined.
05:51:48 <zzo38> * PH
05:52:48 -!- augur_ has joined.
05:53:19 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.theonion.com/articles/bored-entertainment-media-decides-to-go-after-ray,18295/?utm_source=recentnews unplayable
05:53:25 <elliott> images at bottom seem to extend rightwards beyond playfield
05:54:53 <Gregor> Mmmm, yeah.
05:54:54 <Gregor> Bleh.
05:55:04 <Gregor> Why is it so difficult to determine if something is actually visible X_X
05:57:52 <zzo38> Is there a real reason?
05:58:24 <Gregor> There are two obvious ways to make an element invisible, and infinity nonobvious ways.
05:58:53 <Gregor> In this case, the image is invisible because one of its parent elements is overflow:clip, and the image's location is outside the clipping area.
06:00:01 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
06:00:57 -!- wareya has joined.
06:26:30 <elliott> Goodnight; bye.
06:26:33 -!- elliott has quit (Quit: Connection reset by peer review).
06:37:25 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
06:47:21 <catseye> < zzo38> Does it matter gravity if you are dead? Unless the game can do useful things while dead?
06:47:24 <catseye> Jumpman
06:47:42 <catseye> you could collect the bombs as you fell after you died
06:48:14 <catseye> and in theory pass the level before the death was 'final' if you got the last bomb, i guess
06:48:23 <catseye> i don't remember if i ever accomplished this
06:48:45 <zzo38> Is that how that game work?
06:49:01 <zzo38> I do suppose that is one possibility.
06:52:06 <catseye> I do remember that you could collect bombs, as you fell, after you died (and you would get points and the playfield would change accordingly.) But unless you got all the bombs, you would continue to fall, and lose a life once you hit the bottom.
06:52:36 <catseye> No periodic table of elements, I'm afraid.
06:53:09 <zzo38> Ah. Could you have a strategy having to do with the time limit, that is required in order to collect the bombs in this way?
06:53:32 <catseye> Probably. I don't remember a time limit, though...
06:53:42 <zzo38> OK
06:53:57 <catseye> Although, I do remember the washroom of a library that no longer exists (they demolished it to build a new, better library.)
06:54:07 <catseye> *Why* I remember this, now, I cannot say.
06:54:42 <Gregor> catseye: You got /that number/ off the bathroom wall.
06:55:39 <catseye> Oh THAT number.
06:55:42 <catseye> Oh yeah totally.
06:56:29 <catseye> What Avogadro was going in that washroom, I will never know.
06:56:35 <catseye> *doing
07:00:38 <Gregor> Good save :P
07:03:37 <catseye> "Can i re-use your code here with some modifications? I dont see a GPL, but I dont want to steal."
07:03:42 <catseye> those are the two options, you see
07:03:56 <catseye> copyright with no license thus assumed yours and you'll sue me
07:03:58 <catseye> or GPL
07:04:23 <zzo38> What code do you mean?
07:04:40 <catseye> http://4thmouse.com/index.php/2008/02/20/netcat-clone-in-three-languages-part-i-ruby/
07:04:43 <catseye> fwiw
07:05:47 <Gregor> catseye: There are no other licenses.
07:06:03 <Gregor> catseye: If anyone has told you otherwise, they're liars trying to hinder your Freedom.
07:06:14 <catseye> * pH
07:06:17 <catseye> * Freedom
07:06:56 <zzo38> Of course there are other licenses. But some of them might not be any good.
07:07:32 -!- storkbot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
07:12:33 <catseye> i like the idea that "a GPL" refers to any open-source license, kind of like how "a coke" refers to any soda, in certain parts of the US.
07:13:10 <catseye> "hey slap a BSD GPL on that thing and we're good to go"
07:15:08 <zzo38> And of course it is about just as bad in both ways. But at least if you write "a coke" without capitalized or if it is "a Coke" capitalized, you might know the difference by context.
07:16:08 <catseye> zzo38: I'm not sure it's a written thing so much as a spoken thing. If you're curious: http://popvssoda.com:2998/
07:17:20 <zzo38> catseye: You are right; when speaking you can often use informal phrases that you just make up, since it is not written down and don't need to be recorded by writing down.
07:17:48 <catseye> And they do, seriously, say things like "What kind of coke do you want?" "Orange coke."
07:18:11 <catseye> I always called them "soft drinks"...
07:18:40 <zzo38> I suppose that is what you can use, in different localities they have their own words
07:18:48 <catseye> ... that might be a Canadian thing, although, if so, it's not represented on that map.
07:19:57 <zzo38> In the area where I live in Canada, they do often (not always) call it "soft drinks".
07:39:14 <quintopia> catseye: i live in such a place
07:39:20 <quintopia> the Coca-Cola city
07:39:29 <quintopia> and no, no one says orange coke
07:39:32 <quintopia> that's silly
07:40:10 <quintopia> and in fact "soft drink" is slowly taking over
07:40:27 <quintopia> so that asking for a coke here in the city gets you a Coke and not a "what kind?"
07:42:00 <Ilari> Sugar Coke or HFCS Coke? :-)
07:44:17 <quintopia> HFCS
07:44:27 <catseye> quintopia: that's too bad
07:44:30 <quintopia> you have to go to a supermercado for sugar coke
07:47:32 <Ilari> Dunno if HFCS Coke is actually worse for you than Sugar Coke (it at least isn't better for you), but sugar Coke is already terrible for health.
07:48:56 <Ilari> Fun term for margarine: "lubricant".
07:50:58 <Ilari> As in "pass the lubricant".
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:48 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
08:02:42 -!- zzo38 has joined.
08:14:11 <catseye> late
08:14:37 <catseye> and ruby code... not working so much
08:16:04 <quintopia> bed
08:16:16 <quintopia> Ilari: sugar coke tastes so much better tho
08:16:18 <catseye> damn you, completely undocumented IO.select
08:22:44 <Ilari> So I have heard (never tasted HFCS Coke, only Light Coke and the regular one).
08:23:16 <Ilari> The Light versions tastes like crap (like "light" products usually do).
08:26:43 <Ilari> Three good reasons not to use "light" products: a) They taste like crap, b) They replace healthy stuff with questionable-at-best or downright known to be terrible for you stuff, c) They don't work for weight loss (the intended purpose) anyway.
08:36:37 <Ilari> Someone tested heating "light" "cheeses" in microwave... Instead melting like cheese does, that product IIRC "disintegrated".
08:53:38 <zzo38> Then it isn't proper cheese, probably. Maybe they mixed with something else, or else did it entirely differently. Do they have warning labels on them indicating not to heat in microwave? (Better, just don't buy it at all)
08:55:40 <zzo38> Here is an example of how you can write a code in Enhanced CWEB to allow the strings in your program to be internationalized by external files: http://sprunge.us/LgHF
08:55:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
08:56:19 -!- augur has joined.
09:00:24 <zzo38> For a kind of report, I have a question: What literate programming systems have you used?
09:02:03 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
09:08:11 <zzo38> As well as any literate programming systems, also any code documentation tools and code generation tools, and things similar to literate programming tools, too.
09:09:26 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
09:27:57 -!- augur_ has joined.
09:30:07 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
09:31:02 -!- catseye has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
09:32:24 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur.
09:44:59 <zzo38> I have idea: Make a sixteen-dimensional chess game.
09:47:04 -!- cheater99 has joined.
09:52:32 <zzo38> Hay! No cheating!
10:08:05 -!- yorick has joined.
10:42:41 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
10:44:44 <augur> wee
10:44:46 <augur> new blog theme
10:44:47 <augur> :D
10:54:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
11:03:09 -!- tombom has joined.
11:12:38 <cheater99> url?
11:12:53 <cheater99> zzo38: ;-)))))
11:13:26 <cheater99> i love the photo on that page: http://www.ips.gov.uk/cps/rde/xchg/ips_live/hs.xsl/index.htm
11:15:07 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
11:19:00 <augur> cheater99: wellnowwhat.net/blog
11:27:20 -!- catseye has joined.
11:31:26 -!- catseye has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
11:32:31 <cheater99> augur: l@@king
11:54:25 <Ilari> Haha... "ROFLMAO... Yeah, and if Ostriches had 15 times the wing surface area they could probably fly." (on one mailinglist)
12:41:26 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
13:52:45 <cheater99> augur: very nice
14:47:27 -!- tombom_ has joined.
14:47:27 -!- tombom_ has quit (Changing host).
14:47:27 -!- tombom_ has joined.
14:49:33 -!- tombom has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
15:12:59 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
15:20:03 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
15:24:49 -!- elliott has joined.
15:30:03 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
15:31:54 <elliott> 23:47:32 <Ilari> Dunno if HFCS Coke is actually worse for you than Sugar Coke (it at least isn't better for you), but sugar Coke is already terrible for health.
15:31:59 <elliott> LIQUID HFCS WOOOOOOOOOO
15:32:02 <elliott> 23:48:56 <Ilari> Fun term for margarine: "lubricant".
15:32:02 <elliott> 23:50:58 <Ilari> As in "pass the lubricant".
15:32:08 <elliott> That ... may be ... misinterpreted ... slightly ...
15:32:36 <elliott> 00:22:44 <Ilari> So I have heard (never tasted HFCS Coke, only Light Coke and the regular one).
15:32:45 <elliott> hmm, right, I guess HFCS coke may not be the only kind of coke in other countries
15:32:53 <elliott> Ilari: is "Coca-Cola" over there sugar, not HFCS?
15:33:09 <Ilari> elliott: It is.
15:33:13 <elliott> right
15:33:19 <elliott> I am actually not sure what it is over here.
15:33:38 <elliott> I mean, on one hand, I can totally see us buying into the HFCS crap; on the other hand, the US is uniquely privileged in its insanity.
15:33:48 <Ilari> Actually, I think that the only country where HFCS Coke is even available is the US.
15:34:45 <elliott> Mm, makes sense.
15:35:08 <elliott> Which just makes me think: if US people think that sugar Coke tastes better than HFCS Coke (which they usually do if they have an opinion at all),
15:35:15 <elliott> what the fuck does HFCS Coke taste like if not liquid sugar?
15:36:10 <Ilari> Oh, the equivalent to HFCS is making a beachhead as "Glucose-Fructose Syrup".
15:36:36 <Ilari> *beachhead here
15:36:47 <elliott> How *lucky* you are!
15:36:53 <elliott> "Effect of Coke on Sperm Motility" I, uh
15:36:58 <elliott> "Effect of Coke on Sperm Motility" ...
15:37:00 <elliott> erm
15:37:06 <elliott> "The spermicidal potency of Coca-Cola and Pepsi-Cola."
15:37:06 <elliott> ...
15:37:14 <Ilari> I don't drink that stuff anyway.
15:37:31 <elliott> I wonder who decided to test whether Coke was an effective contraceptive or not.
15:39:39 <elliott> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Coca-Cola_Morocco.jpg YOU CANNOT ESCAPE THE ADS, EVEN IN THE MOUNTAINS OF MOROCCO
15:41:32 <Ilari> That kind of research sounds like what's in Annals of Improbable Research.
15:42:08 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds).
15:42:14 -!- nooga has joined.
15:43:14 <elliott> 00:27:54 --- join: Punk (Punk@c-76-104-158-217.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) joined #esoteric
15:43:15 <elliott> 00:28:10 <Punk> anyone alive in here?
15:43:15 <elliott> 00:28:39 <Punk> do you know anything about the 'order of the ookpik'? it's a secret society one of my family members was in and i can't find any information about it ANYWHERE
15:43:28 <elliott> Ilari: they won Ig Nobel prizes for it, apparently
15:43:40 <elliott> Ilari: one to the people who discovered that it is effective, one to the people who discovered it's not :)
15:45:05 <Ilari> Wonder about quality of those studies...
15:57:08 <elliott> Ilari: I've lost the link now but you can search /Ig Nobel/ on Wikipedia's [[Coca-Cola]].
15:59:54 <Ilari> Haha... "A minute later, all sperm were dead in the Diet Coke, but 41% were still swimming in the just-introduced New Coke."... Wonder what the heck is in diet coke...
16:00:55 <elliott> 00:35:29 <Punk> i do a google search for "order of the ookpik" and there is ONE result. one guy in a forum referencing th eorder i talk of
16:00:55 <elliott> the *other* result: http://boards.4chan.org/tg/res/12540100
16:01:01 <elliott> makes me suspect slightly that it may be 4chan silliness
16:01:04 <elliott> but, not sure
16:01:38 <elliott> hmph, all the fun people are offline! :P
16:02:01 <Ilari> For other odd IRC encounters, search for "The legend of potatopatrick".
16:03:14 <elliott> heh
16:08:10 <Ilari> Just that some study doesn't have serious subject doesn't mean it can't be well done. And serious studies can be very badly done (if not with outright maliscously).
16:08:20 <elliott> Indeed.
16:08:32 <elliott> Ilari: Well both got published for better or worse...
16:09:12 <Ilari> There are lots of studies published that wouldn't pass as undergrad science report.
16:10:25 <Ilari> Someone's opinion on matter: 5% of what is published should actually have been published, and about 2% is actually signaficant.
16:10:52 <Ilari> I guess that varies a bit by field.
16:11:34 <Ilari> Or by subfield. E.g. compare IPCC WG1 and IPCC WG3.
16:13:20 <Vorpal> Ilari, I'm not familiar with those, which one is "worst"?
16:14:53 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:14:56 <Ilari> IPCC WG1 > IPCC WG2 > IPCC WG3 (in terms of science quality).
16:15:01 <Vorpal> ah
16:16:38 <Ilari> IPCC WG1 about what global warming (climate change) actually is. IIRC, WG2 is adaptation to climate change and WG3 is mitigation of climate change.
16:17:01 <Vorpal> Ilari, so the last one is about how to stop it?
16:17:12 <Vorpal> or not I guess
16:17:17 <Vorpal> how to reduce it
16:17:28 <Vorpal> which sound futile
16:17:36 <Ilari> Yup, stopping/reducing it... Which I don't think is gracefully possible.
16:17:48 <Vorpal> Ilari, it is what needs to be done however
16:18:24 <Ilari> Key word there is "gracefully"... Remebmer the chinese curse "May you live in interesting times"?
16:18:54 <Vorpal> Ilari, is it actually Chinese in origins?
16:19:05 <Vorpal> Ilari, I thought it was something Pratchett made up XD
16:19:19 <Vorpal> At the current rate it won't take many centuries until we have Venus II really...
16:19:31 <elliott> Ilari: bioengineering seems promising.
16:19:40 <elliott> of course nobody wants to fund it and we get ~green~ instead.
16:20:19 <Vorpal> if humans lived much longer they would probably be more responsible
16:20:40 <Ilari> There are good reassons to doubt validity of simulations (even if the models are good, the input data is suspect) giving likes of +5C or +6C warming by 2100...
16:20:49 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
16:21:28 <elliott> Hmm.
16:21:46 <elliott> My previous computer-instruction-set esolang was called Yael. Maybe this one should be called Havrard :)
16:21:50 <elliott> Hravard
16:21:55 <elliott> Haravrd
16:22:05 <Ilari> I don't think real runaway climate change is possible. All carbon available would trigger Hell on Earth situation, but no real runaway climate change.
16:22:07 -!- catseye has joined.
16:22:19 <elliott> catseye! Hello!
16:23:15 <Ilari> Oh, there will be real runaway climate change, but that's at least hundreds of millions of years out...
16:23:40 <Vorpal> elliott, what about ITM or TIM?
16:29:38 -!- catseye has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
16:32:19 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:32:29 <Sgeo> I have homework to do. I shouldn't have opened XChat. Bye.
16:32:40 <elliott> Sgeo: wait
16:32:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit).
16:32:41 <elliott> Sgeo: this is important
16:34:37 -!- Sgeo|web has joined.
16:34:52 <Sgeo|web> I know you're just pulling my leg, but in case you're not, I can read logs
16:35:20 <elliott> Sgeo|web: I'm not
16:35:22 <elliott> Sgeo|web: please
16:35:26 <elliott> listen
16:35:35 <elliott> Sgeo|web: Jarhfoissoi fioehrhf uiehsoejfo sonertoihgusr msertoigjh sueroghuhs
16:35:37 <elliott> what does this mean
16:35:39 <elliott> i know you know
16:35:40 <elliott> TELL ME
16:36:00 <elliott> Sgeo|web: TELL ME
16:36:21 -!- Sgeo|web2 has joined.
16:36:42 <Sgeo|web2> Closing out of the tab does not cause the webchat thing to disconnect properly
16:38:45 <elliott> Sgeo|web: TELL ME
16:39:21 -!- Sgeo|web has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
16:42:15 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
16:42:41 -!- nooga has joined.
16:44:23 -!- catseye has joined.
16:44:29 <catseye> hello? hello?
16:45:50 <fizzie> Yellow.
16:47:12 <catseye> <Ilari> Actually, I think that the only country where HFCS Coke is even available is the US.
16:47:15 <catseye> Canada
16:47:36 <pikhq> catseye: No, you guys *should* have sugared Coke.
16:47:56 <pikhq> catseye: HFCS Coke only makes sense in the US because we subsidise corn and tarrif sugar.
16:48:27 <elliott> catseye HELLO
16:48:32 <elliott> pikhq: should, yes...
16:50:20 <catseye> pikhq: it's a "may contain" thing (it's called "glucose-fructose" on the label, which lets it be any kind of invert sugar, including HFCS.) Granted, in most places in Canada, it's not HFCS. But anywhere it would make sensse economically for it to be, it would be.
16:50:38 <pikhq> catseye: That should be "absolutely nowhere".
16:50:55 <pikhq> catseye: HFCS is significantly more expensive than sucrose.
16:50:56 -!- Sgeo|web2 has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds).
16:51:22 <pikhq> The US government has to shovel money at people so that we don't use that evil, nasty, foreign sugar.
16:53:13 <pikhq> *Wow*. Vint Cerf is responsible for IPv4 only having 32 bit addresses.
16:53:33 <pikhq> Because surely 4.3 billion addresses would be enough for the internetworking experiment!
17:01:28 <catseye> I am out of date, but a brief search reveals either crazy people, or it's gotten worse: "I lived in Ottawa, Ontario for nine years. The Coca-Cola bottle labels from the Ottawa Coca-Cola bottler indicated "High Fructose Corn Syrup" long BEFORE the bottler in New York (where my other residence was.)"
17:02:05 <catseye> a 2006 comment on a blog
17:03:47 -!- zzo38 has joined.
17:16:09 <Vorpal> pikhq, it could make sense if it was shorter to transport from US to Canada, near the border that is
17:16:53 <pikhq> Vorpal: Ah, true.
17:21:29 <Vorpal> pikhq, isn't south US hot enough to grow cane sugar?
17:23:11 <pikhq> Vorpal: Yes, but nowhere near as much as we grow corn.
17:25:31 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
17:28:10 <Vorpal> pikhq, what about beets then?
17:28:33 <pikhq> I don't think you realise how much land we throw at corn.
17:29:14 <Vorpal> pikhq, but you can even grow sugar beets in south Sweden!
17:29:22 <Vorpal> surely you could in all but Alaska
17:29:24 <pikhq> I'd estimate about a third of the land of the US is growing corn.
17:29:39 <Vorpal> pikhq, they could easily switch
17:29:45 <pikhq> And that corn is subsidised by the government.
17:29:53 <Vorpal> which is weird
17:30:00 <pikhq> And any threat to that subsidy would be knocked down by the corn lobbies. THEY HAVE FUCKING LOBBIES.
17:30:13 <Vorpal> pikhq, shouldn't the republicans want to remove it
17:30:21 <pikhq> Vorpal: No, they fellate them.
17:30:39 <Vorpal> ...
17:31:03 <pikhq> The only thing they love more than shouting "small government" while not following through is claiming to be in favor of the "rural farmer" while giving kickbacks to gigantic corporations!
17:31:55 <pikhq> (the small farm is essentially a myth in the US. One that the Republican party uses to great effect.
17:32:02 <Vorpal> so paradoxical
17:32:17 <pikhq> )
17:35:46 <catseye> most "food" in the US is actually corn.
17:35:46 <cheater99> given that the co-value on food is an involute, i would call you call co-co-nuts.
17:35:52 <cheater99> except for Vorpal.
17:36:03 <catseye> meat, for example. that animal was fed... corn
17:36:07 <cheater99> most corn in switzerland is actually hashish
17:36:55 <pikhq> Yup, it was almost certainly fed corn.
17:39:30 <Vorpal> how strange
17:40:43 <Vorpal> [[ On September 14, 2010, The Corn Refiners Association applied for permission to use the name "corn sugar" in place of high fructose corn syrup on food labels for products sold in the United States. According to a press release, "Consumers need to know what is in their foods and where their foods come from and we want to be clear with them," said CRA president Audrae Erickson. "The term 'corn sugar' su
17:40:43 <Vorpal> ccinctly and accurately describes what this natural ingredient is and where it comes from – corn." ]]
17:40:48 <Vorpal> wtf is that bullshit
17:41:44 <pikhq> Why yes, yes it is.
17:42:03 <Vorpal> pikhq, hm?
17:42:13 <Vorpal> [[ The association however did not provide clarification as to a change in what the FDA already considers corn sugar, i.e., dextrose[75] or any of the other corn-derived sugars such as corn syrup and maltodextrin. ]]
17:42:15 <Vorpal> well
17:44:51 <catseye> yup, good ol' fashion corn sugar!
17:45:23 <pikhq> Anyways, Imma shut down my system and do some stuff with it.
17:45:28 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: Ĝis!).
17:45:37 <Gregor> Ewwww
17:46:02 <Vorpal> Gregor, was that in response to pikhq's comment or in to what I quoted?
17:47:01 <Gregor> pikhq's comment :P
17:47:06 <Vorpal> Gregor, ah
17:47:09 <Gregor> Your quote is a lot less offensive than you make it out to be.
17:47:24 <Vorpal> Gregor, well, one can never be sure with you
17:48:26 -!- nooga has joined.
17:53:20 <elliott> Gregor: Wait, which comment of pikhq?
17:56:03 <catseye> <elliott> 00:28:39 <Punk> do you know anything about the 'order of the ookpik'? it's a secret society one of my family members was in and i can't find any information about it ANYWHERE
17:56:04 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
17:56:25 <catseye> wh
17:56:56 <Vorpal> Gregor, why
17:57:19 -!- wareya has joined.
17:58:17 <Vorpal> actually it sounds like a damn good secret society.
17:58:23 <Vorpal> I mean, if you can't find any info on it
17:58:29 <Vorpal> it is obviously quite secret
17:58:46 <Gregor> In that it's restricted to one person :P
17:58:56 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh really?
17:59:10 <Vorpal> Gregor, who knows
17:59:28 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.allegro.cc/; can't jump on main area of "Main" heading
18:01:11 <Gregor> elliott: I can ...
18:01:16 <elliott> Gregor: You can.
18:01:18 <elliott> Gregor: Now try walking right.
18:01:20 <elliott> Now try jumping up.
18:01:22 <elliott> The area is limited.
18:02:09 <Gregor> I'm confused, I seem to have full range of motion while standing on the word "Main"
18:03:02 -!- P3R3T0n3 has joined.
18:03:51 <elliott> Gregor: Yeees
18:03:55 <elliott> But the rest of the green heading
18:03:57 -!- P3R3T0n3 has quit (Client Quit).
18:03:57 <elliott> You can't jump on
18:04:53 <Vorpal> elliott, you can't stand on the rest of the green heading at all
18:04:57 <Vorpal> elliott, at least not in firefox
18:06:22 <Gregor> elliott: Ohhhh
18:06:30 <elliott> Gregor: Pages on http://wwwwwwwww.jodi.org/ would be awesome but they have few images :(
18:06:32 <Gregor> elliott: That's true, but by design :P
18:06:39 <elliott> Fuck that design :P
18:06:44 <Gregor> Well, not by design per se ...
18:06:50 <Vorpal> elliott, it blinks?
18:06:58 <Gregor> More to the point, I can't determine the difference between a "green" heading and any other heading.
18:07:19 <elliott> Gregor: BTW, you shouldn't recommend Google.
18:07:21 <elliott> You win instantly :P
18:07:28 <elliott> Gregor: Also, I just meant... it's a block element.
18:07:29 <Ilari> Ah, good old trying to dump a tarnished name...
18:07:32 <elliott> And it has children and shit.
18:07:34 <elliott> So...
18:07:36 <elliott> Ilari: ?
18:07:45 <Ilari> Like Blackwater -> Xe services.
18:08:00 <Gregor> elliott: Lots and LOTS of things are block elements.
18:08:04 <Ilari> Talking about that HFCS -> Corn Sugar.
18:08:10 <Gregor> elliott: If every block element was a platform, the game would suck horribly.
18:08:14 <elliott> Your mom is a block element.
18:08:15 <elliott> Ilari: Ah.
18:08:26 <elliott> Gregor: Sorry.
18:08:28 <elliott> Gregor: Your mom sucks horribly.
18:09:30 <Vorpal> Gregor, css needs a new attribute: jumpable
18:09:39 <Vorpal> or wait
18:09:40 <Vorpal> solid
18:09:41 <Gregor> :P
18:09:44 <Vorpal> would be better
18:09:48 <Vorpal> that website designers are mandated to use properly
18:10:02 <elliott> Gregor: BTW, you know the yellow border around images?
18:10:03 <elliott> Make it !important.
18:10:38 * Gregor wonders what that means ...
18:11:13 <Gregor> OMGYESSSSS
18:11:15 <Gregor> I need that so much X-D
18:11:23 <elliott> Gregor: Yes
18:11:24 <elliott> Yes you do
18:11:39 <Gregor> Of course, they could just override it with their own !important, presumably :P
18:12:16 <Vorpal> elliott, that wwwwwwwww.jodi.org is highly confusing
18:12:38 <Gregor> Also "!important" is a terrible name for something that makes a style IMPORTANT.
18:14:08 <Vorpal> Gregor, yes indeed it should mandate upper case and at least 12 exclamation marks!
18:14:09 <elliott> Gregor: I will now attempt to play http://www.reddit.com/r/hurts_my_eyes/.
18:14:14 <elliott> Also, I think they might need !important !important.
18:14:16 <elliott> Err. maybe.
18:14:19 <elliott> You loaded it second.
18:14:20 <elliott> You'll win.
18:15:06 <Gregor> Err, that seems to have broken everything ...
18:15:10 <elliott> Gregor: Sweet, it makes the game selection crazy
18:15:13 <elliott> omg
18:15:14 <elliott> my guy has a background
18:15:16 <elliott> Gregor: Howso?
18:15:26 <elliott> haha wow this is amazing
18:15:35 <Gregor> The borders went away entirely.
18:15:56 <elliott> Gregor: show css plz
18:16:03 <elliott> img { border: poop !important; }
18:16:05 <elliott> is the syntacititititi
18:16:08 <Gregor> c.style.border = "2px solid gold !important";
18:16:18 <elliott> Gregor: Yeah it's more like
18:16:28 <elliott> c.style = c.style + "border: 2px solid gold !important";
18:16:29 <elliott> I guess
18:17:08 <elliott> Gregor: jQuery
18:17:11 <elliott> has a thing to add styles, it seems
18:17:21 <elliott> Oh, wait, maybe not
18:17:38 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway wouldn't it be easier to add a global stylesheet?
18:17:49 <elliott> Gregor: Just insert a <style type="text/css"> img { border: ... !important; }</style>
18:17:50 <elliott> in the header
18:17:53 <elliott> at the end
18:18:03 <Gregor> A) That is not how el.style works.
18:18:08 <Gregor> B) No, that would be much, much harder.
18:18:20 <catseye> yay i can use IO.popen in Ruby yay
18:19:10 <Gregor> And do you HONESTLY think I did all of this without knowing HOW TO ADD CSS STYLES TO ELEMENTS FROM JAVASCRIPT?
18:19:13 * Gregor smacks elliott upside the head.
18:20:52 <elliott> Gregor: I know that you can do that ...
18:20:56 <elliott> But you evidently
18:20:58 <elliott> can't add !important that way.
18:21:12 <Gregor> <elliott> c.style = c.style + "border: 2px solid gold !important"; <-- you can't do this
18:21:15 <elliott> I know that.
18:21:23 <elliott> Brainlag, kay?
18:21:36 <elliott> Gregor: http://rule52.com/2008/06/css-rule-page-load/ was what lead me to have the impression that jQuery had something to add styles with !important. Instead it just implements it itself.
18:21:41 <elliott> Anyway, no, inserting a style element is ... trivial?
18:21:52 <elliott> oh lol
18:21:54 <elliott> it's actually prototype
18:21:56 <elliott> whatever
18:22:25 <elliott> Gregor: But anyway, I don't see the difficutly at all.
18:22:39 <elliott> Also, give those dogs a border, they look strange on white backgrounds
18:22:41 <elliott> Also, complain
18:23:21 <Gregor> <elliott> Gregor: But anyway, I don't see the difficutly at all. <-- this is because you have no idea what the system is doing here :P
18:23:30 <elliott> Probably something stupid.
18:23:43 <Gregor> That being said, I could probably apply the right /class/ to the elements, and have a style based on that class ...
18:24:07 <Gregor> Also, fuck you.
18:24:26 <elliott> Gregor: Fuck you too :P
18:24:37 <elliott> Gregor: I'll just not report bugs yay
18:25:30 <Gregor> <Gregor> <elliott> Gregor: But anyway, I don't see the difficutly at all. <-- this is because you have no idea what the system is doing here :P <elliott> Probably something stupid. <-- this is not reporting a bug.
18:25:37 <Gregor> This is being a douchebag for the sake of being a douchebag.
18:25:44 <elliott> Gregor: I...was...joking...
18:25:53 <Vorpal> Gregor, indeed, elliott loves that
18:26:06 <elliott> Gregor: Remind me to collapse in a pool of offence the next time you say "your face"
18:26:58 <Gregor> Only if you remind your FACE to collapse in a pool of offense the next time I use an American spelling!
18:27:48 -!- pikhq has joined.
18:28:26 <pikhq> Mmkay, done getting rid of the rat's nest.
18:28:34 <elliott> pikhq: I... was that literal?
18:28:45 <elliott> Gregor: Are dogs which just wiggle on the spot evilly and spell instant deatha bug or not?
18:28:49 <elliott> *death a bug
18:28:51 <pikhq> elliott: Not literal.
18:28:57 <elliott> pikhq: Hooray :P
18:29:16 <Gregor> elliott: To the former, that's not a bug, they're just on a very small platform.
18:29:24 <elliott> Yes but they also cause issues.
18:29:25 <Gregor> To the latter: Well, it should be POSSIBLE to kill them, if not easy.
18:30:11 <Gregor> Oh?
18:30:21 <elliott> Gregor: Well, it's a pain :P
18:30:24 <Gregor> Their platform AI could be far smarter than it is :P
18:30:29 <elliott> Also, which former and latter???
18:31:11 <Gregor> "wiggle on the spot evilly" and "spell instant death"
18:32:09 <elliott> Ah
18:32:23 <elliott> Gregor: Uhh, I just died by going to the bottom of a page and pressing down.
18:32:27 <elliott> I fell further and... just... died.
18:32:34 <Gregor> Yup
18:32:38 <elliott> what
18:32:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
18:33:05 <Gregor> That's not by design /per se/, but it's how it ended up resolving for the moment :P
18:33:24 <Gregor> Basically, it was easier to make it so you don't die at the bottom by just putting a platform at the bottom.
18:33:31 <Gregor> But it is a normal platform, so you can still fall through it and die :P
18:33:43 <Gregor> I could actually fix that easily now, but I like that you can suicide if you want :P
18:34:11 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
18:34:40 <Vorpal> Gregor, you can't win as such can you? No "you won" screen
18:34:58 <Gregor> Nope :P
18:35:35 <pikhq> Anyways. New kernel, somewhat tidy cabling, and now to decompress this monster so I can encode it.
18:36:17 <Gregor> OMGYESSSSS
18:36:21 <elliott> pikhq: You mean
18:36:22 * Gregor finds the "YOU ARE WINNER" trophy.
18:36:24 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, for what?
18:36:29 <elliott> pikhq: Sita Sings the 1080p / 5.1 FLAC Blues?
18:36:33 <pikhq> elliott: Yup.
18:36:36 <elliott> pikhq: But dude
18:36:39 <elliott> pikhq: She released the FLAC filse
18:36:39 <Gregor> Oh, sorry, it's "YOU'RE WINNER"
18:36:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Big Rigs?
18:36:41 <elliott> *files
18:36:47 <elliott> pikhq: You could do seventy trillion pixels squared.
18:36:48 <pikhq> elliott: I'm decompressing the y4m.xz file.
18:36:53 <elliott> erm
18:36:55 <elliott> pikhq: She released the Flash files
18:37:01 <elliott> pikhq: Is there any... vector video format?
18:37:05 <elliott> Apart from .swf :P
18:37:09 <pikhq> elliott: Aside from .swf, not really.
18:37:15 <elliott> pikhq: Because... that would be amazing.
18:37:27 <pikhq> Oh, and SVG.
18:37:38 <pikhq> (you can use Javascript in SVG.)
18:38:08 <elliott> pikhq: Can you put SVG in MKV? :P
18:38:34 <pikhq> Yes, but nothing and I mean nothing will handle it.
18:38:41 <pikhq> You can literally put *anything* in MKV.
18:38:41 <elliott> pikhq: pikhqplayer
18:39:46 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, for what? <-- I won't answer, read scrollback
18:40:11 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, or logs in your case
18:40:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, dear god, that is the most obnoxiously stupid thing I've heard you say.
18:40:14 <pikhq> So, NASA has started planning... For an interstellar space ship.
18:40:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Ever.
18:40:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, "<Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, or logs in your case"
18:40:42 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, just obnoxious, then.
18:40:43 <catseye> pikhq: i suppose it was inevitable
18:40:55 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I'm fine with that
18:41:28 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, elliott does it all the time however
18:41:56 <catseye> perhaps elliott should not be the gold standard for decorum on #esoteric
18:43:25 <Gregor> Vorpal, elliott: OK THERE'S A WIN SCREEN NOW!
18:45:10 <Vorpal> Gregor, wow
18:45:21 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, I did not say that
18:45:37 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, but yes
18:45:40 <Vorpal> catseye, agreed!
18:46:32 <catseye> Vorpal: you do realize that means that "elliott does it all the time however" is not a justification for your behavior, then?
18:46:49 <elliott> what do I do all the time?
18:46:53 <elliott> hypothetically
18:46:57 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, see my previous post.
18:47:01 <elliott> ah.
18:47:02 <elliott> *message
18:47:25 <pikhq> 3 more hours of decompressing this...
18:47:25 <Phantom_Hoover> *last thing I said (which there should be a word for)
18:47:32 <fizzie> "The Gold Team and the Silver Team stay here; the Brown Team goes to the special classroom in the basement."
18:47:52 <pikhq> (and yes, I tried using a FIFO to just shove the output to mencoder. Didn't work.)
18:48:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh, I think I've worked out why Freespace was being weird, if I can get md5 sums competently.
18:48:04 <Phantom_Hoover> Which is a big "if".
18:48:45 <Vorpal> Gregor, no?
18:48:51 <Vorpal> Gregor, just tried on w3.org
18:48:54 <Vorpal> no such screen
18:49:00 <Vorpal> do I need to clear cache or something?
18:49:26 <Gregor> Maybe, I've found that problematic occasionally ...
18:49:37 <Vorpal> ouch
18:49:44 <Vorpal> Gregor, yeah worked on google
18:49:48 <Vorpal> but it looks strange
18:49:51 <Vorpal> on google
18:49:59 <Vorpal> should it look like 10 overlaid copied?
18:50:02 <Vorpal> copies*
18:50:39 <Vorpal> Gregor, w3.org has 23 images, more than most. Fun to play at
18:50:46 <Vorpal> hard but not impossible
18:51:10 <Vorpal> Gregor, you might want to add it as a recommendation
18:51:55 <Gregor> Yes, it should look like a total mess.
18:53:03 <Gregor> Yes, w3 is nice ...
18:58:29 <Vorpal> Gregor, aww, why does resizing the browser window result in dying?
18:58:58 <Gregor> Vorpal: Because it can't detect when elements move.
18:59:08 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh?
19:00:53 <Gregor> Vorpal: I don't know how to respond to that "oh?" :P
19:00:55 <Gregor> elliott: OK, coin borders are now actually "!important". I wish that would work from JS X_X
19:01:58 <Gregor> elliott: (Thanks for the tip on that)
19:07:26 <Vorpal> Gregor, "coin"?
19:07:38 <Gregor> s/coin/image/ >_>
19:07:43 <Gregor> They're called coins internally :P
19:08:28 -!- MYCROFTIV has changed nick to mycroftiv.
19:09:13 <elliott> Gregor: Coin?
19:09:15 <elliott> Whut
19:09:15 <elliott> Oh
19:09:16 <elliott> Images
19:09:34 <elliott> Gregor: You're welcome for the bug report, goat-fucker!
19:09:58 <Gregor> Hey now! ... I would make some goat-sexing joke here but I can't think of what name a person would call a goat.
19:10:18 <Gregor> Something along the lines of "Hey now! <name for goat> and I are in LOVE!"
19:10:37 <elliott> Gregor: Neigh, I believe that goats have not got names.
19:11:03 <Gregor> Well, it's hard to argue that you're in love with Goat #3A
19:11:04 <Gregor> :P
19:11:21 <elliott> "I call her Threeigh."
19:11:31 <elliott> Gregor: Please tell me you spotted the horse pun.
19:11:36 <elliott> I'm getting hoarse just telling it.
19:11:42 <Gregor> I did.
19:11:49 <Gregor> It was not worth commenting on X-P
19:12:08 <elliott> "What's the most common problem experienced among practitioners of equine fellatio?" "Their voice goes hoarse."
19:12:14 <elliott> Gregor: ^^^^^^^
19:12:25 <elliott> LOLOLOLOLOLL
19:12:49 <Gregor> ... X-D
19:15:08 <elliott> worst joke ever
19:15:43 <elliott> Gregor: What do we want? favicon goombas!
19:15:49 <elliott> When do we want them? Sometime reasonably soon!
19:16:22 <Gregor> I don't know how to get the favicoooooooooooon D-8
19:16:35 <elliott> Gregor: codu.org php file that takes a domain and tries /favicon.ico; it either returns the data or gives a 404 response.
19:16:49 <elliott> If the JS receives a 404 response, it looks for a <meta> tag with... icon or whatever it was in the type.
19:16:51 <elliott> And that's the URL.
19:17:00 <elliott> Gregor: And *yes* that is the *official* way to do it.
19:17:09 <elliott> You need the codu proxy so you can tell whether /favicon.ico exists or not.
19:17:30 <elliott> Gregor: And, yes, this violates the design goal of not reserving any paths in the namespace. Turns out nobody gives a shit.
19:18:48 <Gregor> Wait, wtf, it tries /favicon.ico BEFORE looking for a meta tag?
19:19:30 <Gregor> Also, there's no need for the proxy, my JS code is loaded into the host page, I can XHR it :)
19:20:09 <Gregor> Even if that wasn't the case, I could just make a new Image() and detect whether it loads properly or not, regardless of host.
19:20:17 <Ilari> Hurr... This IPv4 depletion estimate has IANA depletion in early April next year. But set it to use 2 years of historical data and it gives estimate in early March next year....
19:20:17 <Gregor> ... which is what I should do anyway.
19:22:12 <Vorpal> <elliott> Gregor: And, yes, this violates the design goal of not reserving any paths in the namespace. Turns out nobody gives a shit. <-- so... what about robots.txt
19:23:58 <Vorpal> Ilari, link?
19:24:36 <pikhq> Ilari: Oh?
19:24:39 <Ilari> Vorpal: http://www.ipv4depletion.com/?page_id=77
19:24:59 <Vorpal> Ilari, that should be .net, no?
19:25:11 <fizzie> Gah, this time the smoke just smells like the essence of burning things.
19:25:22 <Vorpal> fizzie, "this time"?
19:25:31 <Vorpal> fizzie, also go look for some way to put it out then
19:26:07 <fizzie> Vorpal: Yesterday I mentioned it smells like popcorn, but maybe you weren't here then.
19:26:24 <fizzie> And it's intentional smoke, from one of those machines.
19:26:41 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh
19:26:49 <fizzie> I thought those were supposed to be more or less odourless, though.
19:26:52 <Vorpal> fizzie, why are you using a smoke machine?
19:27:15 <fizzie> I'm not, the place is. There's a chiptune artist playing stuff.
19:27:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, oh
19:27:42 <elliott> <Gregor> Wait, wtf, it tries /favicon.ico BEFORE looking for a meta tag?
19:27:43 <elliott> Well, okay, no.
19:27:43 <Vorpal> fizzie, where/what is that place?
19:27:47 <elliott> Do it the other way around.
19:28:02 <Gregor> *whew* :P
19:28:09 <elliott> Gregor: Look for the meta tag, if it's there, use that; failing that, XHR /favicon.ico. Done.
19:28:19 <fizzie> Vorpal: Someone from you country, actually, I think: http://m.altparty.org/event/alt2010-220 -- they're supposedly Swedish.
19:28:20 <elliott> Gregor: You may want to scale it to 2x.
19:28:27 <fizzie> s/you/your/
19:28:32 <elliott> Gregor: Also maybe in *addition* to the existing goombas, since they're different aspect ratios. :P
19:28:35 <Gregor> elliott: It's 16x16 by default, right?
19:28:56 <elliott> Gregor: It *is* 16x16. Full stop.
19:28:59 <Vorpal> Gregor, it could support multiple sizes
19:29:05 <elliott> Gregor: wait, does img to an ico work? Right, yes, of course it does.
19:29:08 <Vorpal> it is an .ico after all
19:29:13 <Gregor> That's pretty darn small :P
19:29:16 <elliott> Gregor: So 2x is.
19:29:22 <Gregor> Yesh
19:29:22 <elliott> *it
19:29:25 <elliott> 32x32 is pretty good
19:29:34 <elliott> Gregor: And you'll want to keep existing dog things, just make them less frequent.
19:29:36 <Vorpal> Gregor, aren't the dogs around that size?
19:29:38 <elliott> Since different sizes etc.
19:30:27 <Gregor> Vorpal: 26x22
19:30:32 <Vorpal> Gregor, ah
19:30:39 <Gregor> The player is only 20x40
19:32:49 <Gregor> Argh, finding favicon = annoying ....
19:32:51 <zzo38> Not all webpages would have favicons.
19:32:54 <elliott> Gregor: Plof has both parenless function calls and also first-class functions, yes?
19:32:58 <elliott> How do you handle zero-argument calls?
19:33:06 <elliott> <zzo38> Not all webpages would have favicons. <-- so use a default one
19:33:06 <Gregor> ()
19:33:11 <elliott> Gregor: You know
19:33:15 <Gregor> elliott: It's just an unfortunate special case.
19:33:18 <elliott> Gregor: Google has a service to give you a favicon given a domain, reliably.
19:33:20 <elliott> Including a default.
19:33:29 <Vorpal> elliott, really?
19:33:32 <Gregor> Given a /domain/, not a page?
19:33:35 <elliott> It's not anything "official" I think one of their apps use it. But, yeah.
19:33:39 <Gregor> And where is that? WANT.
19:33:40 <elliott> Gregor: Uh, page, yeah.
19:33:43 <elliott> I'll try and find it
19:33:46 <elliott> It was on reddit or something :P
19:34:08 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=dom
19:34:12 <elliott> Not URL.
19:34:13 <elliott> Domain.
19:34:17 <elliott> But oh well, it also gives back a default favicon.
19:34:23 <elliott> So who can complain?
19:35:02 <Gregor> Nice 8-D
19:35:11 <Vorpal> elliott, seems it converts to png too
19:35:21 <elliott> <elliott> Gregor: Plof has both parenless function calls and also first-class functions, yes?
19:35:21 <elliott> <elliott> How do you handle zero-argument calls?
19:35:30 <elliott> i.e. does "f" call f with zero arguments or simply evaluate to f?
19:35:37 <elliott> If the latter, is there any special syntax for zero-argument calls?
19:35:39 <elliott> Do you have to say f()?
19:35:51 <Gregor> <Gregor> () <Gregor> elliott: It's just an unfortunate special case.
19:35:58 <Gregor> As in, f()
19:35:59 <elliott> Gregor: Ohh, I thought you meant the favicons. X-D
19:36:07 <Gregor> X-D
19:36:13 <elliott> Gregor: i.e. when it has no favicon
19:36:34 <elliott> Gregor: In my/our case that's a bit inconvenient since it'd be nice to have things like .sort! to destructively sort, and () kinda ruins that a bit.
19:36:35 <elliott> Blergh.
19:36:54 <zzo38> In C you write f() and it makes sense like that. But the thing that is slightly less sense is when you put a variable name it doesn't say address/fetch/store
19:37:17 <Gregor> elliott: Yeah, it's not the nicest part of the syntax :(
19:37:44 <elliott> Gregor: You're not meant to lament it with me, you're meant to come up with a solution. :P
19:37:57 <zzo38> Another question, if you know about PXELINUX, can you please tell me why this program doesn't work: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1968354
19:38:37 <Gregor> elliott: Right now what little Plof effort I have is going towards the backend, not the frontend.
19:39:00 <elliott> Gregor: Does FYTHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE PLOF 4 fix this? :P
19:41:03 <Gregor> No.
19:41:13 <Gregor> I'm just saying that that's not where my effort is :P
19:41:13 <elliott> Gregor: Bah!
19:43:58 <zzo38> Have you seen a report about Vorbis is better than MP3 for vector drawings?
19:44:10 <Gregor> For ... vector drawings?
19:44:25 <zzo38> Yes, for vector drawings on an oscilloscope.
19:45:09 <zzo38> (The left speaker channel can correspond to the X axis, and the right speaker channel to the Y axis)
19:46:02 <zzo38> Although not mentioned in the report, I have seen this method of drawing called "scribblevision"
19:47:09 * Gregor wonders why the favicon goombas aren't working ...
19:47:16 <catseye> zzo38: I have to mention this now: http://www.intio.or.jp/jf10zl/corpmark.htm
19:47:51 <Gregor> Whoops, my stupidity is why not!
19:48:17 <catseye> JF10ZL is my electronics hero
19:51:11 * Gregor wtfs
19:51:14 <Gregor> http://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=google.com works
19:51:18 <Gregor> http://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=www.google.com
19:51:21 <Gregor> Does not
19:51:26 <zzo38> He gave up communication by email, so has Donald Knuth, and myself, and some other people
19:52:01 <catseye> yup
19:52:30 <Gregor> In fact, www.foo doesn't work in general X_X
19:52:46 <elliott> Gregor: Uhh
19:52:47 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=www.google.com WFM
19:52:54 <elliott> Your browser is on crack or something
19:52:57 <elliott> Works in Chrome
19:53:07 <Gregor> I mean it doesn't result in Google's favicon.
19:53:11 <elliott> Gregor: Yes.
19:53:11 <Gregor> It results in the generic favicon.
19:53:12 <elliott> Gregor: It does.
19:53:14 <elliott> Wrong.
19:53:22 <elliott> Gregor: It... results in Google's favicon.
19:53:23 <elliott> Literally.
19:53:37 <Gregor> Not on any browser for me.
19:53:54 <elliott> Gregor: Chrome.
19:53:55 <elliott> Srsly.
19:53:56 <elliott> It works.
19:54:05 <Gregor> I have Chrome.
19:54:08 <Gregor> It does not work.
19:54:09 <elliott> Gregor: Also for reddit.com, github.com.
19:54:10 <elliott> It does.
19:54:12 <elliott> You are wrong.
19:54:26 <Gregor> OK, reddit it works on ...
19:54:39 <elliott> Also non-reddit.
19:54:47 <Gregor> github too it works on.
19:54:52 <Gregor> It only fails for me on www.google.com
19:55:33 <elliott> Gregor: Well... uhh...
19:55:39 <elliott> Gregor: My google goes to .co.uk.
19:55:43 <elliott> But I doubt *that* does anything.
19:55:44 <elliott> Gregor: Try curl.
19:55:55 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:55:58 <elliott> $ curl -I http://www.google.com/s2/favicons?domain=www.google.comHTTP/1.1 200 OK
19:56:17 <Gregor> elliott: WTFWTFWTF that worked
19:56:25 <elliott> Gregor: Cookies.
19:56:29 <elliott> Gregor: Google location cookies.
19:56:40 <elliott> Gregor: curl can use a cookie jar, right? Is it compatible with any of your browsers? Try that.
19:56:40 <Gregor> Even with cookies, why would it give me the WRONG FAVICON?
19:57:39 <Gregor> elliott: They all store cookies in DBs now and curl can't use those.
19:57:58 <Gregor> Whatever, I no longer care, so long as the wtfery is localized :P
19:58:50 <elliott> Gregor: :D
19:58:53 <elliott> They are slightly gigantic.
19:58:59 <elliott> Gregor: Are you sure you don't just want to scale them to 24x24?
19:59:15 <Gregor> I'm not sure of anything, I just went with 32x32 for lulz.
19:59:20 <elliott> Gregor: 128x128
19:59:48 <elliott> Gregor: WHAT'S YOUR HIGH SCORE ON GOATSE.FR
20:00:36 <elliott> Gregor: Come to think of it cookies wouldn't matter.
20:00:40 <elliott> Wait, maybe they would.
20:00:46 <elliott> Gregor: It's google.com after all, that the favicon service is on.
20:00:51 <elliott> So *they get your Google cookies*.
20:00:59 <elliott> Meh.
20:01:40 <pikhq> Jeeeze. 1 year until an RIR is out of IPv4.
20:02:10 <elliott> Tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock.
20:02:28 <pikhq> Yup.
20:03:02 <pikhq> Which means probably 1 year until ISPs start *having a transition plan*.
20:03:04 <pikhq> Ugh.
20:03:21 <zzo38> Tick ____ tick ____ tick ____ tick tock tick ____ ticktickticktick ____ tickticktick _____________ tttttiiiiiicccccccckkkkkk___________ tick ticktick tick....
20:03:47 <elliott> 1, 1, 1, 101, 1111, 111, ...what, 1111
20:06:01 <Gregor> quintopia's gonna awesome up the favicons :)
20:06:15 <elliott> Gregor: How do you... awesome up... a favicon?
20:06:20 <elliott> Make a custom one for every single website?
20:06:25 <Gregor> By giving it little arms and legs :P
20:06:31 <Gregor> And maybe a knife?
20:06:47 <elliott> Gregor: Crazy idea how about HP :|
20:07:24 <Gregor> Science, elliott! Speculative science!
20:07:47 <elliott> Gregor: gahahaa no don't add arms and legs
20:07:49 <elliott> Gregor: try it on w3c
20:07:54 <elliott> the globes rolling arounnd
20:07:56 <elliott> is the most hilarious thing ever
20:07:57 <elliott> *around
20:08:49 <Gregor> elliott: AHA! So you see, that favicon URL doesn't work on at least one other page, w3!
20:09:09 <elliott> Gregor: ...but they don't have a fucking favicon
20:09:19 <Gregor> Yes, they do.
20:09:27 <elliott> Oh, so they do.
20:09:38 <elliott> Gregor: Well, uh, I have no idea.
20:09:41 <elliott> Gregor: Do it the manual way then.
20:09:46 <catseye> IO.popen should be called IO.poopen
20:09:57 <Gregor> elliott: But this way seemed so nice X-D
20:09:58 <zzo38> catseye: Why?
20:10:13 <catseye> zzo38: cuz it's poop! well no, it just hates me.
20:11:06 <elliott> catseye: i can totally help.
20:11:08 <elliott> maybe
20:12:48 <elliott> Gregor: Totally add a time-played counter.
20:12:51 <elliott> SPEEDRUN
20:13:36 <Gregor> WTF
20:13:48 <pikhq> GOD DAMMIT.
20:14:00 <pikhq> THIS THING GETS TO 9.07GB (in) AND THEN STOPS.
20:14:02 <elliott> Gregor: wired.com is win
20:14:10 <elliott> pikhq: your MOM gets 9 gigs in and then stops
20:15:33 <catseye> elliott: i think it's the same problem you were having, or similar. i write stuff to a pipe, fine. other end is supposed to read each line and write stuff back (character count for now). i do this manually, everything works; if i try it in a select() loop, that process never becomes 'ready for reading'.
20:15:47 <elliott> catseye: why are you duplicating my perfect work psht :P
20:15:48 <catseye> so it's not IO.popen that hates me, really, it's IO.select
20:17:05 <pikhq> If it does this again I'm redownloading from archive.org.
20:18:22 <pikhq> Though in *principle* it should be perfectly correct; TCP does make that an entirely reasonable assumption, after all.
20:19:30 <catseye> elliott: did you ever get your perfect work to... work?
20:19:36 <elliott> catseye: well i will today!
20:19:41 <catseye> elliott: perfect.
20:19:43 <elliott> catseye: it has everything else but this tiny feature :P
20:20:19 <elliott> Gregor: Bug: Doesn't work on chrome://history :P
20:20:43 <Gregor> elliott: It actually does work on most of Firefox's internal pages, which is pretty amusing.
20:20:58 <elliott> Gregor: OMG
20:21:02 <elliott> Gregor: You know that URL that is the chrome itself?
20:21:05 <elliott> i.e. the actual interface?
20:21:06 <elliott> DO ITD
20:21:07 <elliott> *IT
20:21:19 <Gregor> I don't remember what URL that is, but yes :P
20:22:41 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, what was your maximum speed with that aria thing?
20:22:43 <elliott> Gregor: chrome://browser/content/browser.xul
20:22:47 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: 1 meg a sec or so
20:23:03 <elliott> "Is anyone else consistently amazed how well Google Maps works, even though it's made entirely of DOM elements?"
20:23:05 * elliott cry
20:24:04 <elliott> Gregor: IT DOESN'T WORK ON THE BROWSER ;_;
20:24:13 <elliott> I demand a refund.
20:24:36 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, that URL is... zen.
20:24:45 <pikhq> elliott: ... Isn't everything entirely made of DOM elements on the web?
20:24:51 <pikhq> elliott: Y'know, by definition?
20:24:58 <elliott> pikhq: Yup.
20:25:08 <elliott> Is anyone else consistently amazed how well people work, even though they're made entirely of atoms?
20:25:20 <pikhq> Ah, good, so I'm not insane. Just pissed off.
20:25:39 <Gregor> W3's Favicon goombas are now favicon goombas.
20:33:51 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined.
20:35:18 <Gregor> elliott: Game timer added.
20:35:45 <elliott> Gregor: Does it stop on death?
20:35:47 <elliott> And winning?
20:35:50 <elliott> Also, I don't get the trophy.
20:35:51 <elliott> Ever.
20:36:11 <elliott> Gregor: omg on codu.org it is hilarious the hats
20:36:15 <elliott> oh wait
20:36:19 <elliott> i do get the trophu
20:36:25 <elliott> Gregor: havenworks
20:40:39 <elliott> Gregor: 216 images, 461 time
20:40:48 <elliott> Gregor: it doesn't pause when you tab away
20:40:51 <elliott> i mean it does
20:40:53 <elliott> but then it catches u
20:40:53 <elliott> p
20:40:56 <elliott> also it doesn't stop when you die
20:41:06 <pikhq> *facepalm*
20:41:24 <pikhq> No wonder it gives up. It runs out of space during decompression.
20:41:26 <Gregor> Whaaa? It shouldn't catch up.
20:41:36 <Vorpal> pikhq, larger HDD then
20:41:41 <Vorpal> pikhq, or delete some stuff
20:41:55 <elliott> Gregor: it does
20:41:55 <elliott> die
20:41:58 <elliott> tab away for a minute
20:41:58 <elliott> tab back
20:42:01 <elliott> watch clock scramble
20:42:05 <elliott> Gregor: really though just fix the dying thing.
20:42:20 <Gregor> OH, the clock catches up.
20:42:22 <Gregor> Shoot, that's right ...
20:43:02 <Vorpal> Gregor, game doesn't work on http://codu.org/hats.php, you need to add something stand on in between :P
20:43:05 <pikhq> Vorpal: Or just stop with the insanity. I like that one.
20:43:17 <Vorpal> pikhq, what are you trying to do?
20:43:26 <pikhq> Vorpal: Lossless feature-length film at 1080p.
20:43:41 <Vorpal> pikhq, haha, how many GB?
20:43:52 <pikhq> 341GB uncompressed.
20:43:59 <Vorpal> pikhq, and downloaded?
20:44:01 <Gregor> "Lossless" is particularly silly because your input is lossy :P
20:44:18 <pikhq> Gregor: The input is actually lossless.
20:44:38 <Gregor> Whaaa? What's your input?
20:44:48 <Vorpal> Gregor, rendered data perhaps?
20:45:04 <pikhq> The raw frames.
20:45:05 <elliott> Gregor: Sita Sings the Blues.
20:45:13 <elliott> Gregor: A freely-distributed animated film.
20:45:27 <pikhq> ... AHAHAH.
20:45:27 <Vorpal> elliott, about what?
20:45:31 <elliott> Gregor: Including raw, uncompressed 1080p video and the Flash vector files.
20:45:31 <pikhq> I can actually get this done.
20:45:40 <pikhq> mencoder supports streaming over HTTP.
20:45:45 <elliott> pikhq: good lord
20:45:46 <pikhq> I will just compress straight from archive.org
20:45:52 <elliott> pikhq: but it's .mov on archive.org, isn't it?
20:45:57 <pikhq> Yes.
20:46:02 <elliott> pikhq: and it has the audio in.
20:46:04 <elliott> is the audio lossless?
20:46:10 <elliott> pikhq: make sure to include it as raw PCM
20:46:22 <pikhq> If not I can just use the FLAC I already have.
20:46:33 <elliott> Gregor: Havenworks is like the friggin' boss of WebSplat.
20:46:42 <Gregor> 8-D
20:46:53 <Vorpal> elliott, Havenworks?
20:47:10 <Vorpal> ouch
20:47:10 <elliott> Gregor: If it was multiplayer -- yes.
20:47:14 <Vorpal> I googled it
20:47:15 <elliott> Gregor: You have to get images before your opponent does.
20:47:24 <Vorpal> Gregor, can you tell me what that site is supposed to me?
20:47:25 <elliott> I would so kick your havenworks ass.
20:47:26 <Vorpal> it looks extreme
20:48:10 <pikhq> Oh, so that's why the raw off of archive.org is smaller. *That's* a 12fps video.
20:49:07 <elliott> pikhq: ...is the film 12fps?
20:49:25 <pikhq> elliott: Not unusual for animation.
20:49:37 <elliott> pikhq: Yeah, but for a film?
20:49:48 <pikhq> Animated film? Yeah.
20:55:18 * pikhq tries a 60 second sample.
20:55:28 <pikhq> It would seem this has serious issues with buffering.
20:56:36 <elliott> lawl
21:00:00 <pikhq> Hmmm. Let's see if ffmpeg has issues with a FIFO.
21:02:01 <elliott> pikhq: ffmpeg could convert to flac on the fly, too :)
21:05:06 <pikhq> ffmpeg *does* work with a pipe. Ahahah.
21:05:15 <pikhq> Pity I deleted the xz in a fit of rage. XD
21:05:45 -!- nooga has joined.
21:05:57 <elliott> pikhq: REDOWNLOAD IT IS YOUR DESTINY.
21:05:58 <elliott> pikhq: or
21:06:02 <elliott> pikhq: <(curl raw_quicktime)
21:06:07 <elliott> that's a file!
21:07:01 <pikhq> elliott: Does curl ever ever stop trying to retry a download?
21:07:24 <elliott> dunno
21:07:36 <pikhq> ... Eh, I'll just tee the output from curl.
21:07:53 <pikhq> I can store this compressed just fine; it's just uncompressed that's a problem.
21:12:09 <catseye> so my Ruby problem, I *think*, was that I was using read instead of readpartial.
21:12:59 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:15:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo!
21:16:54 <Sgeo> Can't talk, no keyboard
21:17:34 <pikhq> Okay, there we go. Got ffmpeg just compressing straight to x264.
21:18:09 <Sgeo> Yay, found thecon screen keyboard
21:18:16 <pikhq> Victory is mine.
21:18:25 <pikhq> wget --tries=0 -O - -q http://media.xiph.org/video/derf/y4m/1080p/sita_sings_the_blues_1080p24.y4m.xz | tee "sita_sings_the_blues_1080p24.y4m.xz" | xz -d | ffmpeg -i - -vcodec libx264 -threads 0 -cqp 0 -vpre slower vid.avi
21:18:29 <pikhq> :D
21:19:20 * Phantom_Hoover wonders if it is time to get a desktop computer.
21:19:51 <elliott> pikhq: Why would it retry?
21:20:13 <pikhq> elliott: Connection drop?
21:20:31 <pikhq> elliott: I've got wget set to retry forever. Couldn't find a way to make curl do that.
21:21:29 <catseye> yes curl
21:22:00 <pikhq> Okay, so far this is compressing at 22,000 kbps.
21:22:00 <elliott> pikhq: Oh, so --tries is actual tries, not retries.
21:22:04 <elliott> 0 retries would just never retry :P
21:22:13 <elliott> pikhq: ETA?
21:22:21 <pikhq> Let's go with... 13 hours.
21:22:51 <elliott> pikhq: Then you get to mkvmerge it with the FLAC :P
21:22:55 <pikhq> Yup.
21:22:55 <elliott> pikhq: Hopefully it'll sync up alright...
21:23:05 <elliott> pikhq: We can get bsmntbombdood to play it.
21:23:10 <elliott> If anyone's computer can play it, his can.
21:23:25 <pikhq> Currently, this is going at sub-DVD bitrates.
21:23:43 <pikhq> Erm, no, it's not.
21:23:47 <Vorpal> <Sgeo> Can't talk, no keyboard
21:23:47 <pikhq> Twice-DVD bitrates.
21:23:51 <Vorpal> riiiiiiight
21:24:21 <pikhq> Moral of the story, animated content compresses really well.
21:25:28 <Vorpal> pikhq, naturally. Lots of same colour areas
21:25:58 <elliott> pikhq: It... would fit on a Blu-Ray? Surely not.
21:26:58 <catseye> This is driving me bonkers
21:27:23 <catseye> at least ONE of my scripts works, but what is the difference?
21:27:38 <elliott> catseye: pastie both of them?
21:27:56 <elliott> pikhq: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7y5_zJ1xfQs looks like some of that animation is more fluid than 12fps. i may be wrong
21:28:59 <catseye> elliott: sec
21:29:05 <pikhq> elliott: The stream I'm actually encoding from is 24fps.
21:29:18 <elliott> catseye: what we're learning here is that fuck unix.
21:29:20 <pikhq> elliott: I'm going to guess that the one on archive.org has multiple framerates.
21:29:21 <elliott> pikhq: Oh, right.
21:29:35 <elliott> pikhq: Variable frame rate, such amusement.
21:30:02 <pikhq> elliott: Anyways, yeah, it seems this would fit on a Blu-Ray. With room to spare.
21:30:16 <pikhq> The xz'd raw would.
21:30:43 <elliott> pikhq: but it breaks the blu-ray spec to do so?
21:30:46 <elliott> to have it as an actual video stream
21:31:06 <pikhq> Yes, it would break the Blu-Ray spec.
21:31:50 <Gregor> elliott: Offscreen images (e.g. havenworks :P) are no longer targets.
21:32:07 <elliott> Gregor: Horizontal scrolling my friend
21:32:11 <elliott> Gregor: also with havenworks just zoom out
21:32:14 <elliott> that's what i do :D
21:32:22 <Gregor> That's what I told you to do X_X
21:32:22 <elliott> Gregor: it's not just off-screen
21:32:26 <elliott> it's off-movable-area too
21:32:29 <Gregor> elliott: YOU make horizontal scrolling work, it's a huge PITA :P
21:32:29 <elliott> e.g. onion
21:32:42 <Gregor> That I can't fix so easily.
21:33:00 <Gregor> However, theonion should be winnable now, since the invisible elements were still onscreen.
21:33:14 <Gregor> (Just a bit counterintuitive)
21:33:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, well, it's fine if you have a touchpad that supports it.
21:34:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it's better than Vorpal's way of handling that error.
21:35:19 -!- wareya_ has joined.
21:35:21 <pikhq> Well, this appears to be playable in realtime.
21:35:42 -!- wareya has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
21:36:13 <elliott> catseye: oh interesting it's not actually select that does it
21:36:14 <catseye> elliott: it. working? now. maybe
21:36:17 * elliott fixes
21:36:24 <elliott> irb(main):001:0> foo = IO.popen("rev","r+")
21:36:24 <elliott> => #<IO:fd 5>
21:36:24 <elliott> irb(main):002:0> foo << "abc\n"
21:36:24 <elliott> => #<IO:fd 5>
21:36:24 <elliott> irb(main):003:0> foo.gets
21:36:25 <elliott> [hang]
21:36:43 <catseye> try foo.flush
21:36:54 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> Well, it's better than Vorpal's way of handling that error. <-- you mean, completely out of context comments? Not really no
21:37:11 <elliott> ooooh i have another thing
21:37:34 <elliott> catseye: -e 'rev >&2' works
21:37:36 <elliott> so aha
21:38:43 <elliott> catseye:
21:38:44 <elliott> irb(main):001:0> foo = IO.popen("rev","w+")
21:38:44 <elliott> => #<IO:fd 5>
21:38:44 <elliott> irb(main):002:0> foo.print "abc\n"
21:38:44 <elliott> => nil
21:38:45 <elliott> irb(main):003:0> foo.flush
21:38:47 <elliott> => #<IO:fd 4>
21:38:49 <elliott> irb(main):004:0> foo.read_nonblock 8192
21:38:51 <elliott> Errno::EAGAIN: Resource temporarily unavailable - read would block
21:38:56 <elliott> and, indeed, read blocks
21:39:48 <zzo38> Does "frobnicate the bar library" mean anything?
21:40:27 <elliott> yes
21:40:39 <elliott> it tweaks internal symbol tables
21:44:06 <Gregor> elliott: OK, so I MAY have just fixed horizontal scrolling ...
21:44:16 <Vorpal> zzo38, yes but what exactly is hard to say
21:44:41 <Vorpal> zzo38, without more context
21:45:21 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:46:06 <zzo38> Where can I find a list of how to typeset special characters in man pages?
21:46:18 <elliott> Gregor: t'works
21:49:31 <Gregor> Images collected:255
21:49:32 <Gregor> Images remaining:1499
21:49:32 <Gregor> Time:604
21:49:33 <Gregor> Died
21:50:29 <elliott> Gregor: lawl
21:50:30 <Gregor> Seeing havenweb covered in "YOU'RE WINNER would be the most epic thing ever.
21:50:32 <elliott> Gregor: I'm still going
21:50:38 <elliott> Yes, that would be impossible :P
21:51:25 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:51:55 <elliott> Gregor: 252@827D
21:52:07 <elliott> images got @ time [D|W] (died/won)
21:52:14 <elliott> 252/1402@827D to be precise :P
21:52:17 * Gregor implements proper time pausing ...
21:52:41 <elliott> hi ais523, we're playing platform games on the most badly-designed website ever
21:52:59 <elliott> apart from yvette's bridal formal
21:53:53 <elliott> argh i died!
21:54:02 <elliott> Gregor: It doesn't help that the havenworks logo is both the favicon and one of the images to get :P
21:54:13 <elliott> Gregor: Can you set the opacity of the HUD?
21:54:24 <elliott> Make it white-on-65%-opaque-black or something.
21:54:29 <elliott> And put it in the bottom-right? It clashes with stuff as it is.
21:55:04 <Gregor> On the bottom-right I don't think it'll be very obvious ... maybe top-right?
21:55:07 <Gregor> Well, eh, that's no better.
21:55:08 <Gregor> Hrm.
21:56:36 <Gregor> Yeah, I guess I can just make it partially transparent :)
21:56:46 <Gregor> Not sure I'm a huge fan of that either ...
21:56:57 <elliott> Gregor: It's obvious enough when it's white-on-black...
21:57:07 <elliott> Even if the black is only 65% opaque.
21:57:22 <Gregor> Lesse ...
21:57:24 <elliott> Gregor: Can you also decrease the threshold for horizontal scrolling? I keep walking into enemies by mistake.
21:57:53 <Gregor> It's already 200 pixels X-D
21:58:14 <ais523> elliott: heh
21:58:28 <ais523> SCO are getting more ridiculous, now; they've been offering to sell their contracts with other people to other other people
21:58:33 <ais523> and the other people are getting confused
21:58:37 <elliott> whaaat
21:58:52 <elliott> Gregor: 250 pixels! Or base it on screen width?
21:58:53 <ais523> at least two major companies have contacted SCO/the bankruptcy court and said, effectively, "we don't have a contract with you do we? what are you talking about?"
21:58:57 <elliott> 225?
21:59:09 <elliott> ais523: I am confused. :P
21:59:18 <ais523> and SCO's reply was to tell them, effectively, "actually, here's a different contract we forgot"
21:59:27 <ais523> nobody else seems to be able to make any sense of this either
21:59:33 <ais523> but it's certainly an innovative strategy
22:00:29 <ais523> the latest people they picked on like this were Oracle, incidentally
22:00:40 <Gregor> elliott: Have a suggested multiple of screen width? :P
22:00:56 <cheater99> man
22:01:02 <elliott> Gregor: 218@311D
22:01:04 <cheater99> i wish someone ported the modplug player to linux
22:01:05 <elliott> Gregor: Nope :P
22:01:09 <elliott> Gregor: It should be window width anyway.
22:01:13 <ais523> and Oracle's response was a very Agoran "I don't know what you're talking about, but I object just in case"
22:01:36 <Gregor> elliott: That was what I assumed you meant.
22:01:47 <elliott> Gregor: Your face is what I assumed your meant.
22:02:21 <elliott> Gregor: I spawned on an enemy X_X
22:02:26 <elliott> Gregor: Also, the time includes the loading time.
22:02:28 <elliott> This sucks.
22:02:41 <Gregor> elliott: Argh, spawning on an enemy should be impossible. Also, the time does NOT include the load time.
22:02:51 <elliott> Gregor: well that was NOT 29 seconds
22:02:54 <elliott> that was zero seconds
22:03:05 <elliott> Gregor: presumably me and an enemy spawned apart
22:03:06 <elliott> then it walked into me
22:03:08 <elliott> because i spawned in midair
22:03:10 <elliott> or
22:03:12 <elliott> because i spawned on an image
22:03:14 <elliott> which obviously fell away
22:04:15 <ais523> also, I worry that http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:BytePushCore is becoming sentient
22:05:34 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523, why?
22:05:35 <Vorpal> ais523, hi
22:05:44 <Vorpal> ais523, wtf at that SCO thing
22:06:42 <Phantom_Hoover> An SCO thing?
22:06:48 <Phantom_Hoover> My interest is piqued.
22:08:40 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, yes read what ais523 said in the last screenful
22:09:02 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, starts after <ais523> SCO are getting more [...]
22:10:30 <elliott> Gregor: 216@625D; I was taking it slowly and going for breadth, but then a stupid ACTUALLY STATIONARY favicon got me.
22:10:38 <elliott> Gregor: Plz make favicons flip to show direction or something :P
22:10:41 <elliott> So I can see it wobbling.
22:11:03 <Gregor> I can't make them flip, can't do that from JS. I could do it on the server, but right now the server doesn't do anything :P
22:11:29 <Gregor> Right now I'm trying to properly make your half-opaque HUD. Which should work except WHY ISN'T THIS FONT COLOR SETTING PROPERLY ARGH
22:12:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, what are you doing right now?
22:12:38 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Setting a CSS class to set color: white !important, and putting that CSS class on the table cells of the HUD.
22:13:54 <Gregor> ArghwtfCSS. MY FAULT I'M DUMB.
22:13:56 <elliott> Gregor: Uhh... why not use inline styles?
22:14:06 <catseye> inane styles
22:14:19 <Gregor> elliott: Because it was getting overridden, and I can't set "!important" from JavaScript.
22:14:34 <elliott> Gregor: <td style="foo: bar !important">
22:14:40 <elliott> you can set the style attribute manually
22:14:50 <Gregor> elliott: I didn't write a <td>, I made it in JS.
22:14:51 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, does someone pay you to do those puns?
22:15:04 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm surprised oerjan hasn't cracked down on them.
22:15:05 <elliott> ...
22:15:07 <elliott> Gregor: setAttribute
22:15:51 <Gregor> Bleh, I wouldn't have thought to use that to set the style since that's a really grody way to set style .....
22:15:59 <Gregor> Anyway, I have a DIFFERENT SOLUTION.
22:17:14 <olsner> hmm, in fossil, commits have background color
22:17:42 <Vorpal> olsner is that fossil as in venti?
22:18:14 <olsner> if that's venti as in fossil, then yes?
22:18:22 <Vorpal> olsner, err
22:18:45 <olsner> but I think no
22:18:59 <olsner> I was referring to the version control system, fossil-scm.org
22:19:05 <ais523> Vorpal: Phantom_Hoover: SCO have gone from making software to making lawsuits to making WTFs
22:19:15 <Gregor> elliott: FIX'T looka fancy HUD
22:20:09 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: i am on oerjan's payroll
22:20:55 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, do you stamp out independent punsters?
22:21:27 <Vorpal> ais523, very true
22:21:28 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: are you suggesting that I run an independent punster factory?
22:21:42 <olsner> gaaah, the fossil faq has "What is the difference between a branch and a fork?" and says it's much too big a question for the FAQ...
22:21:45 <olsner> ... but reading the referenced part of the documentation, it turns out that there *is no difference*
22:21:49 <elliott> Gregor: GIVE IT A ROUNDED CORNR
22:21:50 <elliott> *CORNER
22:21:55 <elliott> although cornr is appropriate
22:21:59 <elliott> cornr 2.0 beta
22:22:09 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, I'm suggesting that you help me overthrow the tyrannical regime of oerjan and implement my own tyrannical regime.
22:22:12 <Phantom_Hoover> IN HASKELL.
22:22:26 <Gregor> elliott: ... is there a CSS attribute for that? :P
22:22:34 <Vorpal> olsner, ah no that is a different fossil
22:22:36 <elliott> Gregor: Yes.
22:22:39 <elliott> Gregor: border-radius.
22:22:46 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: polymorphic tyrrany!
22:22:52 <Phantom_Hoover> Indeed!
22:22:53 <elliott> Gregor: Add -moz-border-radius and -webkit-border-radius to taste.
22:22:57 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, better!
22:23:00 <elliott> Gregor: In fact, just use this: http://border-radius.com/
22:23:05 <Phantom_Hoover> In Haskell EXTRACTED FROM COQ!
22:23:16 <Phantom_Hoover> Recursive tyranny!
22:23:17 <elliott> Gregor: Actually don't.
22:23:19 <elliott> Gregor: Here, do this:
22:23:31 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fist/ will be invaluable in our mission
22:23:40 <elliott> Gregor: border-top-left-radius: N; -moz-border-radius-topleft: N; -webkit-border-top-left-radius: N;
22:23:44 <elliott> Gregor: N in ems or px.
22:23:46 <elliott> Gregor: You're welcome.
22:24:00 <Gregor> ... topleft?
22:24:14 <elliott> Gregor: If the HUD is in the bottom-right...
22:24:17 <elliott> Then you want to set the topleft.
22:24:18 <elliott> Gregor: But yes.
22:24:19 <elliott> Gregor: One word.
22:24:22 <elliott> I know. I know.
22:24:25 <elliott> Don't try and understand.
22:24:31 <elliott> CSS is not based on logic.
22:24:36 <Phantom_Hoover> catseye, let's make it iron!
22:25:00 <Gregor> And if the HUD is on the top-left, which it is, then I want bottom-right :P
22:28:16 <pikhq> o.O
22:28:25 <elliott> Gregor: ...no
22:28:29 <elliott> Gregor: bottom-right HUD kthx
22:28:34 <elliott> Gregor: it's the most out-of-the-way
22:28:35 <pikhq> Okay, the stock markets are officially motherfucking insane.
22:28:37 <elliott> and yes it *is* noticeable
22:28:44 <Vorpal> Gregor, please keep the HUD where it is
22:28:47 <Vorpal> Gregor, it is better there
22:28:50 <Gregor> elliott: It IS the most out of the way, and yet it is NOT noticeable at all.
22:28:54 <pikhq> 99% of stocks in the US are de jure owned by Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation.
22:28:58 <elliott> Gregor: ...yes it freaking is at 65% black
22:29:01 <elliott> you're just blind
22:29:30 <Vorpal> pikhq, what?
22:29:32 <pikhq> How one goes about "purchasing" a stock is one has DTCC purchase a stock and you are the beneficiary.
22:30:04 <pikhq> Vorpal: They own most of the stocks world-wide.
22:30:13 <Vorpal> pikhq, how strange
22:30:22 <pikhq> They have $23 trillion dollars in assets.
22:30:36 <catseye> Phantom_Hoover: would you settle for... iron-on?
22:30:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Good enough!
22:30:57 <pikhq> If they wanted to screw over the US economy, they could just take their ball and go home.
22:31:02 <pikhq> Sorry, world economy.
22:31:16 <elliott> Gregor: Anyway it makes it almost impossible to get some logos.
22:31:18 <Vorpal> pikhq, indeed. Is it a private company?
22:31:26 <elliott> Gregor: Whereas you can't GET to the bottom-right because it scrolls before you do.
22:31:30 <elliott> i.e. it is by definition out of the way.
22:31:32 <pikhq> Vorpal: Yes.
22:31:48 <Vorpal> Gregor, bottom right is bad, would break wikipedia iirc
22:31:58 <Vorpal> Gregor, you can't get at the images down there then
22:32:11 <Vorpal> Gregor, I believe elliott has me on ignore, so no point in telling him directly
22:32:18 <Gregor> Vorpal: That would be a lot less broken than it is now on Wikipedia.
22:32:27 <Vorpal> Gregor, it isn't broken there
22:32:33 <Vorpal> Gregor, works perfectly for me
22:32:37 <Vorpal> Gregor, the main page that is
22:32:51 <Gregor> Vorpal: Err, sorry, what I mean is that that brokenness on Wikipedia would be a lot less than the brokenness on other sites.
22:33:04 <Gregor> Vorpal: Since having an image in the top-left is a lot more common than having the image in the absolute bottom-right.
22:33:14 <elliott> Gregor sees the light at last :|
22:33:15 <Vorpal> Gregor, hm
22:33:17 <Gregor> Vorpal: Also, on Wikipedia I think those images are high enough up that they still wouldn't be covered.
22:33:25 <Gregor> elliott: I have not argued at all that it would block anything.
22:33:31 <Gregor> elliott: My argument is thus: No one will ever notice it's there.
22:33:36 <Vorpal> Gregor, same
22:33:38 <zzo38> Ideas for next version of Enhanced CWEB: * More symbols in WEBMATH font. * New command @" which makes a string typeset with \atquote{...} around it, and allow defining its meaning for CTANGLE. * Allow @. inside of strings: "abc@.def" is indexed as "def" and "abc@.def@.ghi" is indexed as "def...".
22:33:38 <elliott> Gregor: Okay then. Not 65% opacity.
22:33:40 <elliott> 75%.
22:33:51 <zzo38> *Any other ideas you may have that might or might not be included.
22:33:53 <elliott> Gregor: It is *impossible not to notice a medium-sized, dark rectangle appearing on a page*.
22:33:54 <catseye> "The first was to hold all paper stock certificates in one centralized location, and automate the process by keeping electronic records of all certificates and securities clearing and settlement (changes of ownership and other securities transactions). The method was first used in Austria by the Vienna Giro and Depository Association in 1872."
22:33:58 <Gregor> elliott: The level of opacity is irrelevant. It could be fully opaque. No one would ever see it.
22:34:04 <elliott> Gregor: ...you are crazy
22:34:08 <catseye> electronic records in 1872
22:34:12 <elliott> Gregor: I mean bottom-right of the window in case that's not clear.
22:34:17 <zzo38> * Better C interpreter.
22:34:18 <Gregor> Yes, of course.
22:34:27 <elliott> Gregor: I... do you have any fucking idea how good the eye is at noticing things?
22:34:44 <elliott> I am... how the fuck can you believe that the appearance of an almost-black, medium-sized rectangle would go COMPLETELY UNNOTICED FOREVER?
22:34:48 <elliott> You're full of shit.
22:34:49 <pikhq> Sorry, their assets are now at $30 trillion.
22:34:52 <pikhq> TRILLION.
22:35:08 <Gregor> Having watched people not even notice they had a character or that any of the images got bordered, I doubt that there is any limit to what the human eye can fail to notice.
22:35:36 <elliott> Gregor: Try it and then tell me that. Anyway, is your target market people who are nearly-blind?
22:35:43 <elliott> The character isn't black. (in the literal sense)
22:35:47 <elliott> The character is tiny.
22:35:48 <elliott> The HUD is not.
22:35:57 <elliott> Yellow blends in very well with white, and the borders are small.
22:36:08 <elliott> In fact it's easy not to notice the HUD now because it's *black on white like most web pages*.
22:36:42 <Gregor> elliott: I already tried ti!
22:36:43 <pikhq> People have set it up so a single entity holds all the stocks, just to make it easier to trade stocks.
22:36:46 <Gregor> *it
22:36:53 <Gregor> I wouldn't have said anything if I hadn't tried it.
22:36:55 <elliott> Gregor: Push it to the server, srsly. I want to see for myself.
22:37:00 <pikhq> The financial "industry" is a bunch of morons.
22:37:12 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, what was the name of the company again?
22:37:31 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation.
22:38:17 <Gregor> ARGH
22:38:23 <Gregor> 428@1105D
22:38:31 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, so they are the TRUE rulers of the world?
22:38:36 <Gregor> I was a third of the way there D-8
22:38:36 <elliott> Gregor: HAHAHAHAHAHA :|
22:38:43 <Gregor> elliott: Fine, pushed. Except that you're doubly incapable of thinking there's anything wrong with it regardless of whether there is :P
22:39:06 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: They have the power to create the largest economic crash ever, so *yes*.
22:39:13 <elliott> Gregor: You have... not pushed.
22:39:15 <elliott> It's still right there.
22:39:22 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, are they hiring?
22:39:26 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Alternately, they could merely use their stocks to take over every company.
22:40:10 <elliott> Gregor: Also, please tell me you use "outline: ..." to do the image borders.
22:40:11 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.dtcc.com/careers/
22:40:12 <elliott> Also you failed to push.
22:40:16 <Gregor> wtfbbq, I pushed but it didn't do it right ...
22:40:32 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, that was facetious, by the way.
22:40:56 <pikhq> In short, we are *fuuucked*.
22:41:02 <Phantom_Hoover> So there is no regulation in place to stop them destroying the world economy?
22:41:02 <elliott> Gregor: You... said you pushed. You did not push.
22:41:05 <elliott> Calm down.
22:41:15 <Gregor> I was talking about "outline"
22:41:17 <Phantom_Hoover> Wow, my supervillian dreams can finally become reality.
22:41:21 <Gregor> I did push, it didn't go through apparently.
22:41:39 <elliott> Gregor: I was making a suggestion to use outline if you didn't...
22:41:41 <elliott> Jesus man.
22:41:49 <cheater99> btw
22:41:50 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: There is no regulation in place to stop them from running the world, no.
22:41:54 <cheater99> i really really like augur's new layout
22:41:56 <cheater99> kid's got talent
22:42:02 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Because they are the majority stockholder of everything.
22:42:27 <Gregor> elliott: Also, it appears that it was pushed, probably a caching issue. Clear thine cache.
22:42:33 <pikhq> Name a company, THEY OWN IT.
22:42:38 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, so why aren't they?
22:42:55 <pikhq> Dunno.
22:43:23 <cheater99> pikhq: they don't own my company
22:43:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, any citation for this?
22:43:40 <cheater99> pikhq: largely because the prosperity of my company is unrelated to the economic climate
22:43:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Not that I don't believe you, but this is deeply interesting, and I don't want to have to bug you with questions.
22:44:39 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_article/_a000010-000923.htm , http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depository_Trust_%26_Clearing_Corporation , http://www.dtcc.com/downloads/annuals/2010/DTC_Q2_2010.pdf , etc.
22:45:38 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, what's the US's national budget?
22:46:12 <pikhq> $3.8 trillion.
22:46:15 <cheater99> INT_MAX
22:46:34 <pikhq> The US national *debt* is $13 trillion.
22:46:45 <pikhq> Yes, I do believe DTCC could purchase the US.
22:46:49 <cheater99> usa is like a fucking crackmonkey
22:46:56 <Phantom_Hoover> They already arguably have.
22:47:13 <Phantom_Hoover> They own all the shares; what more do you want?
22:49:13 * Phantom_Hoover reads that quarterly report.
22:49:35 <pikhq> The world GDP is $58 trillion. DTCC has nearly half of the world GDP.
22:49:37 <Phantom_Hoover> Hmm, they only list their total assets at $3.7 million.
22:49:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, that column is in thousands.
22:50:11 <pikhq> That may be a holding company?
22:50:30 <elliott> pikhq: on Sita: "Who created the film? and as an artist i will never agree to give my creations to anyone to take it and claim it... would you give away your children for anyone to take? would you say its about the children not you as the parent? When you steal you steal.. I have the right to my writings, and my films.... and it's not for anyone else to take...."
22:50:33 <elliott> lol youtube comments.
22:50:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Must be, given that the sum of all the numbers can't be more than a couple of tens of billions.
22:50:54 <pikhq> http://www.dtcc.com/downloads/annuals/2009/dtcc_consolidated_2009.pdf
22:50:57 <pikhq> There's the sum total.
22:51:16 <elliott> "Why should I question copyrights...?. I'm a filmmaker, and I spend and sacrifice my time, health, and sanity to create my stories and my films... Why do I want to just give it away and let people use it as theirs????"
22:51:26 <elliott> pikhq: apparently anti-copyright = plagiarist
22:51:34 <pikhq> elliott: Retarded.
22:55:19 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, so wait, why did it end up like this?
22:56:00 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: To reduce paperwork.
22:56:16 <Phantom_Hoover> A noble aim if I ever heard one.
22:56:16 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Before, to trade stocks you had to trade physical stock certificates.
22:56:23 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Now, it never changes hands.
22:56:48 <pikhq> Bankers are morons.
22:56:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Meanwhile here you just say to DTCC "he can have those stocks" and DTCC pushes a little trolley around in its vault?
22:57:18 <Phantom_Hoover> I'm never going to be dissuaded from that picture, so please don't try.
22:57:26 <pikhq> Not even. DTCC just changes who it's held in trust for in their computer...
22:57:39 <pikhq> Though you could argue that there's a *tiny* little trolley shovelling the bits around.
22:57:59 <elliott> pikhq: without DTCC, we wouldn't have all the crazy high-freq trading, would we? :P
22:58:06 <elliott> "I've taken this trolley... and put a ROCKET on the back of it."
22:58:19 <elliott> "Revolutionary!"
22:58:21 <pikhq> elliott: Not without changing some actual regulations.
22:58:35 <elliott> ^ this should have happened
22:58:44 <pikhq> As it is, there's a bunch of actual paper certificates sitting in DTCC's vaults.
22:58:47 <elliott> brb
22:58:53 <pikhq> One per stock.
22:58:54 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, let's both join them and help revolutionise the process!
22:58:59 <pikhq> One per mother-fucking stock.
22:59:05 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, you can join in too!
22:59:13 <Phantom_Hoover> We'll get ROBOTS!
22:59:17 <Phantom_Hoover> With KITTENS!
22:59:25 <Phantom_Hoover> And MISSILES full of STOCKS!
22:59:30 <Vorpal> pikhq, enormous vaults then?
22:59:46 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, which is why they need ROCKET SLEDS!
22:59:49 <pikhq> Vorpal: They've got *40 trillion dollars*. I think they can afford a few enormous vaults.
23:00:05 <Vorpal> pikhq, better idea: change regulations so there doesn't have to be physical papers
23:00:22 <pikhq> After all, they could go out and purchase MOST OF THE PLANET.
23:00:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, TOO DAMN SANE
23:00:35 <pikhq> Vorpal: This would be smart.
23:00:38 <pikhq> Vorpal: Bankers are morons.
23:00:39 <Phantom_Hoover> You can't come to our robot party!
23:00:49 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, don't complain about it, EXPLOIT it!
23:00:53 <Vorpal> pikhq, oh right
23:01:30 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, wait, you can create stock out of thin air, can't you?
23:01:32 <pikhq> Vorpal: Also fun. If some cracker wanted to be truly nasty, well, they've got a single target.
23:01:40 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: By splitting stocks, yes.
23:01:53 <Vorpal> pikhq, hah, I'm sure they have backups
23:01:58 <Phantom_Hoover> And then DTCC has a little printer that runs off a new certificate?
23:02:06 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: I suppose.
23:02:12 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, probably a huge printer
23:02:17 <Phantom_Hoover> And then an army of secretaries filing constantly?
23:02:25 -!- tombom__ has joined.
23:02:33 <Phantom_Hoover> See how this is RIPE for the mighty ARM of AUTOMATION!
23:02:39 <Gregor> elliott: Well?
23:02:55 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, you any good at robots?
23:02:59 <Gregor> It's in the bottom-right, what's your prognosis?
23:03:02 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Not even a little bit.
23:03:06 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no I think it is ARIN for that
23:03:29 <Vorpal> if you don't get the pun I will be sad
23:03:35 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, well, are you clinically INSANE?
23:03:40 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Aw, there's denominations of stock certificates.
23:03:44 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, you can do something just for that pun.
23:03:46 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, NOOOO
23:03:53 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Probably.
23:03:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the army of secretaries will still be there?
23:04:07 <pikhq> Just a smaller army.
23:04:23 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, yes, but if I create a new company, isn't new stock somehow now there?
23:05:03 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: When you create a brand-new company, *you* own it.
23:05:10 <Vorpal> pikhq, this only applies to publicly traded stock right?
23:05:17 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: DTCC only becomes involved when it becomes publicly traded.
23:05:22 <pikhq> Wherein stocks come into existence.
23:05:32 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, OK, so then the little printer is brought online?
23:05:41 <pikhq> Guess so.
23:05:50 -!- tombom_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:06:36 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, also, if I split a stock and then trade half of it with someone else, that half still needs to be moved, yes?
23:07:13 <pikhq> *Companies* split the stock every now and then.
23:07:29 * Phantom_Hoover knows NOTHING about economics.
23:07:30 <pikhq> Splitting the stock is something that happens to all the stock of the company at once.
23:07:36 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
23:07:49 <pikhq> This is not so much economics as it is the crazy game run by bankers.
23:08:18 <Phantom_Hoover> OK, but there still must be a little printer far under DTCC which prints out new stocks.
23:08:25 <pikhq> Yeah.
23:09:24 <Phantom_Hoover> And there must be some system to move these stocks around.
23:09:44 <pikhq> Not really. File them once and forget them.
23:09:50 <Phantom_Hoover> If only because otherwise the little printer will basically be under a huge pile of stocks that is starting to crystallise.
23:10:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Dammit pikhq, you're treading on my dreams!
23:11:29 <Phantom_Hoover> My dreams of giant robots and rocket sleds!
23:12:46 * Gregor proceeds to change the position of the scoreboard again since elliott is unresponsive and he hates having it in the bottom-right.
23:13:10 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, one last time, there is absolutely no regulation of note acting on DTCC?
23:13:36 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: None.
23:14:09 <Phantom_Hoover> There must be a conspiracy theory here already.
23:14:24 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: Except that as a member of the Federal Reserve, they need to take out insurance on any bank deposits made with them. (they don't offer bank accounts) :P
23:15:53 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, my mind is blown.
23:15:59 <Phantom_Hoover> What about outside the US?
23:16:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Other than the fact that the US economy crashing taking the rest with it, of course.
23:16:26 <Phantom_Hoover> *takes
23:17:15 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume that other places don't have this exact strain of insanity.
23:17:25 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: They perform the same function in most of the world stock markets.
23:17:33 <Phantom_Hoover> O.o
23:17:51 <Phantom_Hoover> So not only do they control the US economy, but most of the world economy too?
23:18:01 <pikhq> Yes.
23:19:25 <Phantom_Hoover> How do they actually make money?
23:20:33 <Phantom_Hoover> I mean, do you give them a cut to push the trolley around?
23:22:25 <pikhq> Yes.
23:23:08 <Phantom_Hoover> Also, presumably the $3*10^13 isn't just petty cash.
23:23:41 <Phantom_Hoover> It's the stocks they are holding, so surely they can't just spend it with no other economic consequences?
23:24:01 -!- tombom__ has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:25:37 <pikhq> In their SEC filing they should have listed the cash or cash equivalent.
23:25:47 <pikhq> *That* is their assets that are liquid.
23:26:10 <pikhq> (i.e. what they could go out and blow in a orgy of spending right this instant)
23:26:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Was that pdf you linked the SEC filing?
23:26:36 <pikhq> Think so, yeah.
23:27:35 <Phantom_Hoover> It had $4e9 as the total assets, IIRC.
23:27:44 <Vorpal> does all that money exist as physical money?
23:27:53 <pikhq> http://www.dtcc.com/downloads/annuals/2009/dtcc_consolidated_2009.pdf This?
23:27:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, no.
23:27:59 <Phantom_Hoover> Oops.
23:28:02 <catseye> love the scientific notation on these figures, btw
23:28:07 <pikhq> Vorpal: It exists as stocks that could be traded.
23:28:14 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, the $3e13 is in stocks.
23:28:20 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, oh
23:28:26 <pikhq> Vorpal: That is to say, it is definitely considered part of the money supply.
23:29:03 <Phantom_Hoover> "Total assets 37,719,148"
23:29:18 <Phantom_Hoover> "(In thousands, except share data)
23:29:20 <Phantom_Hoover> *"
23:29:39 <pikhq> As part of the M2 -- that is, as part of what is generally considered "money in circulation".
23:29:42 <Phantom_Hoover> So $4e10.
23:30:06 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: $4e13, you mean.
23:30:27 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, no, that's the total assets from various other sources.
23:30:35 <pikhq> Oh, I see.
23:31:03 <Phantom_Hoover> dtcc_consolidated_2009.pdf is where I got the $4e10 from.
23:31:48 <Gregor> How does Wikipedia break this X_X
23:32:02 <Phantom_Hoover> According to that Ming the whatever article you linked to, there's another company called something & co. which is on the stock certificates.
23:32:31 <Phantom_Hoover> Their total liabilities are $4e10 as well.
23:32:40 <Phantom_Hoover> But I have no idea what liabilities are
23:32:40 <pikhq> A subsidiary of DTCC.
23:32:47 <pikhq> Cede and Company.
23:32:48 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, yes.
23:32:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Them.
23:34:21 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
23:35:09 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume they have the $3e13 total assets, but I could well be wrong.
23:36:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:36:31 <Phantom_Hoover> [[Stocks held by DTC are kept in the name of its partnership nominee, Cede & Co.]]
23:36:45 <Phantom_Hoover> — WP
23:37:46 * Gregor sobs at Wikipedia's inability to set my BG ...
23:38:24 <elliott> Gregor: Can you put it back so I have a chance to check it? :P
23:38:34 <elliott> Also, set the "background" by just overlaying the entire screen.
23:38:37 <elliott> fixed-position element
23:38:40 -!- Harpyon has joined.
23:39:05 <Gregor> That's ... lame. CSS background should work.
23:39:06 <ais523> elliott: can you think of a name for the subset of concatenative languages where the main form of flow control is manipulating code as data on a stack?
23:39:15 <Gregor> Also, that element would just have to use CSS background itself.
23:39:16 <elliott> Gregor: It also goes over all the elements, which is fun
23:39:21 <elliott> ais523: hmm
23:39:23 <ais523> Gregor: perhaps it's the frame-breaking code, or something like that?
23:39:30 <elliott> ais523: Quinatanative :D
23:39:38 <elliott> Gregor: * { background: foo !important }
23:39:40 <elliott> Gregor: DO IT
23:40:48 <Gregor> elliott: Well, yes, setting the background on everything will in fact give it a background color :P
23:40:49 <quintopia> "underload-likes"
23:40:55 <elliott> quintopia: boring
23:41:00 <elliott> also too self-plugging, for ais523 :P
23:41:03 <quintopia> elliott: and descriptive
23:41:05 <elliott> Gregor: DOOO IT
23:41:08 <elliott> quintopia: no it's not
23:41:12 <elliott> it requires knowledge of underload
23:41:13 <elliott> also, it's not pretty
23:41:16 <elliott> you're boring
23:41:18 <Gregor> elliott: YOU'RE WINNER already DOOOOS that.
23:41:20 <quintopia> so?
23:41:23 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, surely there are some agreements, even unspoken or non-legally-binding ones, governing DTCC.
23:41:24 <elliott> Gregor: Dos it.
23:41:31 <quintopia> "rogue-likes" rquires knowledge of rogue
23:41:36 <elliott> <quintopia> AESTHETICS DON'T MATTER WE SHOULD ALL TALK IN C
23:41:38 <quintopia> humans communicate by metaphor and comparison
23:41:40 <elliott> <quintopia> ++
23:41:46 <Gregor> elliott: When you win, it just adds * { background: url(...) !important; } to your CSS.
23:41:58 <elliott> Gregor: Oh. So you DO have the same awesome idea as me.
23:42:05 <elliott> Gregor: I was commenting more on "DOOOOS" :P
23:42:29 <quintopia> this is a good idea
23:42:37 <quintopia> if wikipedia won't work, we should DoS it
23:43:07 <elliott> Gregor: Anyhow totally put the HUD back for my opinioning.
23:43:09 <elliott> >_>
23:43:29 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, aren't there even contracts somewhere along the line
23:43:37 <pikhq> Nope.
23:44:14 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: pikhq: lol
23:44:24 <elliott> i have a feeling pikhq is either exaggerating slightly due to being misinformed somehow
23:44:26 <elliott> or...
23:44:29 <elliott> or i have no idea what
23:44:30 <Gregor> elliott: I have. And it's pushed. If you say it isn't pushed, you get /ignore. Learn to clear your cache.
23:44:43 <elliott> Gregor: You said you put it back.
23:44:46 <Phantom_Hoover> elliott, it does seem *way* too crazy to be that true...
23:44:51 <elliott> * Gregor proceeds to change the position of the scoreboard again since elliott is unresponsive and he hates having it in the bottom-right.
23:44:55 <elliott> I read my scrollback when I return.
23:44:57 <Gregor> elliott: I /just/ put it back again.
23:45:00 <Gregor> Like, three seconds ago.
23:45:04 <elliott> Gregor: ENOTPSYCHIC
23:45:04 <Gregor> Back back again.
23:45:06 <Gregor> In the bottom-right that is.
23:45:52 <elliott> Gregor: Okay, that will totally work if you increase the font size.
23:45:57 <elliott> It's too small as it is.
23:46:04 <elliott> Just to make the whole thing bigger.
23:46:19 <Phantom_Hoover> pikhq, do you actually have positive confirmation for the complete unregulatedness of DTCC?
23:46:27 <zzo38> Do you realize how much simpler internationalization.wi is over other programs such as GNU gettext?
23:46:30 <Gregor> That is SUCH AN ANNOYING PLACE for it to be. Even knowing it's there, that's almost always super-distant from where I want my eyes to be.
23:46:38 <elliott> Gregor: Do it in the top-right then.
23:46:51 <Gregor> Top-right I can live with.
23:46:58 <elliott> Gregor: That's much less irritating than top-left and anyway most games use top-right.
23:47:08 <elliott> Gregor: oh man on twitter you get these little evil birds
23:47:10 <elliott> <3<3<3
23:48:07 <elliott> wat.
23:48:28 * Gregor got twittered.
23:48:44 <elliott> Gregor: *twat
23:48:48 <Vorpal> Gregor, oh I thought it was a reference to the movie "The Birds"
23:49:01 <Gregor> elliott: Sorry, yes. I got twat.
23:49:11 <Vorpal> Gregor, link?
23:49:15 <elliott> Gregor: oh lovely, the translucency of the HUD means that the trophy gets shown there too
23:49:16 <elliott> i approve
23:49:31 <Gregor> Vorpal: Uhh, twitter.com ...
23:49:37 <Vorpal> Gregor, well duh
23:49:40 <Vorpal> Gregor, I meant
23:49:41 <Gregor> elliott: The trophy thing is SO UGLY it has to stay forever :P
23:49:46 <Vorpal> Gregor, the page where you got twat
23:49:52 <elliott> Gregor: omg omg make it flash
23:49:54 <Gregor> Vorpal: There. With WebSplat :P
23:49:58 <elliott> Gregor: set the background to that and then remove it
23:50:01 <elliott> every $interval
23:50:02 <Vorpal> Gregor, presumably someone linked websplat in a twat?
23:50:03 <elliott> Gregor: OMG WAIT NO
23:50:10 <elliott> Gregor: have it remove it from random elements at random times
23:50:16 <Gregor> Vorpal: No, I just got killed by a Twitter bird :P
23:50:17 <elliott> so that it just... vomits trophies all over the place
23:50:18 <elliott> forever
23:50:23 <Vorpal> Gregor, aaah
23:50:25 <Gregor> Vorpal: That's what I meant by "twittered"
23:50:37 <elliott> ais523: I'm bad at names, anyway.
23:50:38 <Vorpal> Gregor, twat*
23:50:40 <zzo38> Most games use top-right? OK. However, when I make a game I assign an entire row or column to the status information?
23:50:48 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, what game are you trying to write here
23:50:59 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Generic Platform Killemup Game?
23:51:10 <elliott> Generic Platform Killemup Game ON WHEELS
23:51:12 <elliott> ^W
23:51:13 <elliott> ^W
23:51:14 <elliott> ON WEB
23:51:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, that seems distinctly non-esoteric.
23:51:31 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: http://codu.org/websplat/
23:51:36 <Vorpal> Gregor, bookmarklet is broken?
23:51:37 <Phantom_Hoover> I assume there's a caveat here.
23:51:39 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: It's played on web pages.
23:51:40 <Gregor> Vorpal: Nope.
23:51:42 <Vorpal> Gregor, did you change something recently
23:51:46 <Gregor> Vorpal: Lots of things.
23:52:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Like that it's written entirely in upside-down characters or something similarly zany.
23:52:00 <Gregor> Vorpal: Try clearing your cache, I've found that the caches are WAY too greedy.
23:52:09 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: It's far more zany than that :P
23:52:23 <elliott> Gregor: Mad props for this btw.
23:52:23 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Just play it. Discover the joy. TASTE THE RAINBOW.
23:52:26 <elliott> It's an awesome game.
23:52:35 <elliott> Gregor: OMG I'M GOING TO TRY IT ON GMAIL HAHAHAHA
23:52:35 <Gregor> Why thankee :P
23:52:38 <elliott> This will break horribly
23:52:47 <elliott> omg
23:52:47 <Gregor> lawl
23:52:49 <elliott> Gregor: evil envelopes
23:52:52 <Vorpal> Gregor, works on w3.org but not on twitter.com
23:52:56 <elliott> lol i just drop to the bottom
23:52:59 <elliott> because gmail's entirely in a frame or something
23:53:03 <Gregor> Vorpal: That's ... bizarre.
23:53:08 <Gregor> elliott: Laaaame :(
23:53:18 <Gregor> Dang it, killed by a Spamusercake.
23:54:29 <elliott> Gregor: It fails at frames. And EVERYONE USES FRAMES.
23:54:35 <Gregor> X-D
23:54:47 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, that is the coolest thing in history EVER
23:54:52 <Gregor> elliott: Pretty sure SOP would kill me there anyway :P
23:54:59 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: WHY YES. YES IT IS. X-P
23:55:06 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.twogroove.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/a_winner_is_you_1024.jpg
23:55:16 <elliott> Gregor: Please use either YOU'RE WINNER or this with 1/2 probability.
23:55:18 <elliott> It will be GLORIOUS
23:55:52 * Phantom_Hoover plays it on the WebSplat page.
23:56:02 <Phantom_Hoover> What's the aim?
23:56:07 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: ...
23:56:09 <elliott> Try loading it again.
23:56:11 <elliott> And read the button.
23:56:13 <elliott> And then read the HUD.
23:56:19 <Gregor> elliott: Whoah, where is that from?
23:56:40 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh.
23:56:42 <Gregor> elliott: Wish that wasn't a JPEG :(
23:56:44 <elliott> Gregor: Pro Wrestling on the NES.
23:56:47 <elliott> Gregor: You can find another.
23:56:49 <elliott> http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=a+winner+is+you&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=DmjDTMOPGNW7jAesr8S5BQ&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQsAQwAA&biw=1020&bih=582
23:56:55 <elliott> Gregor: It's horribly famous.
23:57:27 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, controls are just the arrow keys, yes?
23:57:27 <elliott> Gregor: authoritative info http://encyclopediadramatica.com/A_winner_is_you
23:57:30 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: or was
23:57:32 <elliott> wasd
23:57:35 <elliott> AS IT SAYS ON THE PAGE
23:57:47 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover doesn't like to read :P
23:57:52 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: down falls below the floor if you want
23:57:57 <elliott> down-jump can be useful to jump on top of things
23:58:01 <elliott> up-up is double jump.
23:58:03 <elliott> the end
23:58:10 <Phantom_Hoover> What do I do when I get trapped by a paragraph?
23:58:13 <Gregor> elliott: I'm in JPEG hell why are they all JPEGs oh god NOOOO
23:58:25 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: You can duck to drop through things, and double-jump to jump through things.
23:58:46 <elliott> Gregor: there's a gif
23:58:46 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: DTCC-held stocks have the 'owner' listed as a beneficiary.
23:58:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Gregor, the guy is you, right?
23:58:56 <Gregor> Phantom_Hoover: Yup :P
23:59:12 <elliott> Gregor: also
23:59:14 <elliott> Gregor: or
23:59:19 <elliott> Gregor: append "filetype:png"
23:59:21 <elliott> or "filetype:gif"
23:59:30 <elliott> Gregor: http://www.phlashers.com/images/aWinner.gif
23:59:32 <pikhq> Phantom_Hoover: This is the same legal infrastructure as is used for trust funds. It's all not in the beneficiary's name, but it's technically operated for the sake of the beneficiary.
23:59:51 <Gregor> elliott: Aha, that's perfect though, hoopla
←2010-10-22 2010-10-23 2010-10-24→ ↑2010 ↑all