< 1288137602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How's about building xirssi>? < 1288137604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*xirssi? < 1288137645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't think I ever use the mouse for XChat ... < 1288137654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How do you change channel? < 1288137660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from ctrl+pgup/down. < 1288137662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ctrl+Pgup/down < 1288137664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lame < 1288137664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh < 1288137664 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how < 1288137671 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... not keyboard enough for you? < 1288137682 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want everything to be obscure vim control statements? < 1288137688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says the vim user < 1288137696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, I just don't want it based on an arbitrary list :P < 1288137706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having to press more keys to get to a channel just because it's further down the alphabet = lame < 1288137740 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lesse, I have twelve channels on four servers plus one query window open. < 1288137742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assign each of those to a key. < 1288137751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1288137803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, my 19 windows in irssi each have their own key combo. < 1288137870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are the packages in Debian to get the version of autotools that works? x_x < 1288137966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Feel like seeing if xirssi works? :P < 1288138037 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-173-238-244.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288138057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: hai < 1288138060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: is that xirssi < 1288138062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, screenshot nao < 1288138072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sleep 2; scrot -bs ~/xirssi.png) < 1288138080 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, smuxi. Trying to see if I can get it to not-suck. < 1288138089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST XIRSSI :P < 1288138093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly what you asked for. < 1288138113 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not in the package manager. < 1288138128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Oh noes, you have to compile irssi with --with-glib2 and then compile xirssi < 1288138131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That could take minutes :P < 1288138150 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, it seems that smuxi is very, very unconfigurable. < 1288138158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: um < 1288138162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: It has pages of config options < 1288138167 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I see. < 1288138170 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has page. < 1288138173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: wrong < 1288138179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're clearly opening the wrong menu or something :p < 1288138187 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File->Preferences? < 1288138197 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even change the font. < 1288138216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq_: Screenshot, try different menus. < 1288138218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1288138221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can. Change the font. < 1288138222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb. < 1288138222 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, yes I can. < 1288138270 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bweheheh. < 1288138283 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all... Nice-like. < 1288138300 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... OH MY FUCKING GOD IT DOESN'T HANDLE MY IME AT ALL. < 1288138315 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT SUCKS ASS. < 1288138322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: set gtk inout < 1288138323 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MOTHER-FUCKING SUCKS MOTHER-FUCKING ASS. < 1288138326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input < 1288138337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right click on text box etc < 1288138369 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's set to the system input method. < 1288138374 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ignoring C-space < 1288138411 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, set it to the Scim bridge method and it works. < 1288138433 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :これが良い。 < 1288138694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1288138697 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1288138873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1288138927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a much more comfortable experience than irssi. < 1288139056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I paste in some RTL text, it'll display reasonably. < 1288139108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :العربي < 1288139128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1288139138 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks arabic < 1288139150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Tis < 1288139160 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288139211 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it say? < 1288139230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arabic. < 1288139245 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sneaky < 1288139315 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-45-71.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288139488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sasha < 1288139506 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1288139545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1288139550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ hilarious pun. < 1288139667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaand I get leſs shitty rendering of þings þat aren't exactly going to be in your average monoſpace font. Hooray. < 1288140048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ooh, I'll help you test your new client! :P < 1288140061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 洞窟物語! < 1288140154 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288140161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: have you been here before? < 1288140164 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I drain big basins in Minecraft? < 1288140168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall < 1288140168 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, elliott < 1288140171 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have < 1288140187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have any minecraft players here. < 1288140191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only fizzie who played for a total of two days < 1288140196 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was here before < 1288140207 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not know that I was a player of it < 1288140210 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's damn fun < 1288140231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, well, asking questions about it here is unlikely to work :p < 1288140314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's the esotericlogs hg again? x_X < 1288140316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x_x < 1288140352 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PM < 1288140515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaand it seems that GUI Emacs sucks even more than my terminal at font rendering. Who would've guessed? < 1288140523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it can't even use the system IME. < 1288140533 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But because it's Emacs, it *of course* has a builtin IME. < 1288140570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GUI Emacs is nicer than terminal emacs for like two reasons only :P < 1288140581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm unsure what those reasons are, exactly. < 1288140612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobo_sign#Hobo_code < 1288140613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEST < 1288140615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THING < 1288140616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVER < 1288140868 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what < 1288140877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe this is the first time I've ever wanted a tab bar on the left side of the window. < 1288140878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what < 1288140888 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is hobo code the best thing ever < 1288140891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tab bar on the left - i.e. buffer list < 1288140910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because (1) i had no idea anything like that existed and i'm not sure it even does here < 1288140913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) HOBO SOCIETY < 1288140917 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o; < 1288140922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: think about it < 1288140924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a clump of trees? < 1288140926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe hobos planted them < 1288140928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're a SIGN < 1288140932 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.. < 1288140932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could we know???? < 1288140934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yuh. < 1288140936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CAN'T KNOW < 1288140944 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I wanted that just the other day. < 1288140950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And every other day. < 1288140959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NOW HOW DO I MAKE XFWM STOP FOCUSING A WINDOW WHEN I SCROLL IN IT < 1288140975 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1288141314 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.7 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288141316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. If writing to $browser/location loads a page, how do you reload? < 1288141329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch $browser/location? x=$(cat $browser/location); echo "$x" >$browser/location? < 1288141334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The latter would be super-weird.) < 1288141464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Midori is such a nice browser. < 1288141497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Except that it freezes all the time. < 1288141791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problematic, that. < 1288141825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thus Kayak. < 1288141914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm? < 1288142045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kayak = my web browser! It displays web pages already! < 1288142318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome. < 1288142322 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Webkit? < 1288142367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1288142376 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whooo. < 1288142384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's going to be filesystem'd up the wazoo. If you've heard of uzbl, like that but with less Arch idiocy. < 1288142391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1288142397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with a sane UI? < 1288142400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1288142409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How're you doing the filesystem thing? < 1288142413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Not sure yet :-P < 1288142418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm. If writing to $browser/location loads a page, how do you reload? < 1288142418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : touch $browser/location? x=$(cat $browser/location); echo "$x" >$browser/location? < 1288142419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE! < 1288142419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (The latter would be super-weird.) < 1288142421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTALLY NEED AN OPINION ON THIS < 1288142432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you ever looked at what you have to do to create a fuse filesystem? < 1288142433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful < 1288142447 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :touch $browser/location, definitely. < 1288142452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just makes sense. < 1288142488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE may be awful, but what about the alternatives? < 1288142490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True, it does. But then, having a file identifying a browser's location cause the browser to reload just because its modification time changed? What? < 1288142498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I could do it with 9p. linux has support for that. :p < 1288142507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaah, right. 9p. < 1288142524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or I could just have it as regular files... < 1288142536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And use gamin. < 1288142557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288142589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Opinions welcome :P < 1288142636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gamin is revolting. < 1288142642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is it? < 1288142647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FAM, sure, but gamin? < 1288142649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared with, y'know, *just implementing a filesystem*. < 1288142661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but it's also a lot less work for me. :p < 1288142670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems alright for file notification stuff, but what you want is an actual, honest-to-god filesystem. < 1288142681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bleh! < 1288142698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could bite you in the ass later if you don't. < 1288142706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How? :p < 1288142713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno! < 1288142749 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno if filesystems are right... how do you treat it if the server's down? < 1288142761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand wtf Mathnerd314 is trying to say < 1288142775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suspects he misunderstands the plan... < 1288142780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'd *like* to expose the entire DOM as a filesystem... but that sounds like hell to do with webkit. < 1288142794 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filesystem... something like /http/google.com/ goes to http://google.com < 1288142811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yeah no not that. < 1288142865 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Maybe you could expose the FUSE API to WebKit's JavaScript and write the FS in JS >: ) < 1288142875 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yay, just lost all interest in your project. < 1288142883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: here's all the shit you have to do to get just a plain in-memory filesystem with fusepy: http://code.google.com/p/fusepy/source/browse/trunk/memory.py < 1288142905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: so wait, first you said "Hey, that won't work." and then I said "Well, I'm not doing that." and then you said "Oh, your project sucks then>" < 1288142907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then." < 1288142916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: see the mindboggling inconsistency here? < 1288142935 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want filesystems to be more like websites, rather than the opposite < 1288142957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the worst idea i've ever heard. < 1288142962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm not exposing websites as filesystems < 1288142965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i never proposed that < 1288142968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or said anything related to that < 1288142974 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, your complaint is that you need to... Handle filesystem operations? < 1288142983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yup. Pretty much. < 1288142992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry that filesystems suck. < 1288143019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Oh yeah, and that filesystem DOESN'T EVEN SUPPORT DIRECTORIES. < 1288143074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am sort of tempted just to have $(browser)/ctl where you can send commands, and then have the other files be read-only. :/ < 1288143142 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sounds like a web page :p < 1288143159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What? < 1288143203 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most web pages are read-only < 1288143234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, yeah, because I have an informational file with some bytes in it that's totally like a web page. < 1288143243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you understand what I'm trying to do here...? < 1288143244 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... :p < 1288143258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to not have the foggiest clue. < 1288143265 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the log < 1288143267 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would make FUSE significantly easier. < 1288143280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It would. It'd also be a copout, but. < 1288143291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOH, it would be obvious what reloading would be. "reload". < 1288143298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or even "go (current url)"; at least that's a proper verb. < 1288143314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OTOOH (other other hand), it'd be like uzbl and uzbl sucks. :) < 1288143321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1288143356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I know, I'll implement something else to procrastinate a bit. < 1288143476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Victory. < 1288143702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It appears that my kernel has 9p support. < 1288143809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://bitbucket.org/f2f/py9p/src/tip/examples/simplesrv.py otoh, it looks more complicated than fuse :p < 1288143816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least that api. < 1288144008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Woo, it can now embed into other windows (*cough* tabbed(1) *cough*) < 1288144159 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I still stand by my earlier statements as being relevant. < 1288144218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1288144225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a control interface exposed via fs < 1288144227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is age-old < 1288144260 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's nothing to control, except the dom and various commands < 1288144294 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you want a simultaneous GUI along with the fs < 1288144294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288144305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You really seem to be missing the point. < 1288144312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: consider everything you click on in the process of using the browser < 1288144315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an element of control < 1288144318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually it is exposed via gui widgets < 1288144325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no reason it cannot be exposed via a logically-organised file system. < 1288144369 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... explain how url completion works in this fs < 1288144414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ... < 1288144426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ok, i give up, learn the unix philosophy and plan 9 and then ask again :) < 1288144444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: (this is not an admission of my design's inferiority, any more than trying to explain a certain programming language feature to someone who hasn't programmed before is) < 1288144453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might explain later when i'm not busy coding < 1288144819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WOO MY WINDOW HAS AN ICON < 1288144869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more » < 1288144872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--google.co.uk < 1288144874 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1288144883 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I fail to see how a filesystem would be smaller than curl + a parser < 1288145036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: ...??? < 1288145056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you *really* need to read up on the unix/plan9 philosophy before trying to understand this, nothing that you're saying has any relevance to the design < 1288145109 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, wait an hour-2 while I regain my sanity < 1288145115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288145157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Quick, what user agent should I send? < 1288145203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: whatever it is, it probably has to start with Mozilla/5.0 :p < 1288145233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla/13.5 (Microsoft Brows-o-mat .NET# 2022) < 1288145267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out what makes Google realise I'm not a stupid browser < 1288145281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-gb) AppleWebKit/531.2+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0 Safari/531.2+ < 1288145283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the default < 1288145319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like the idea of exposing all that < 1288145341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Default value: "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; c) AppleWebKit/531.2+ (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/531.2+"]] < 1288145344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*[[ < 1288145348 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, even on x86? :p < 1288145474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wow. Google actually looks for Mozilla/5.0. < 1288145479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite EVERY BROWSER EVER claiming to be Mozilla/5.0. < 1288145496 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bots and downloaders don't. < 1288145500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1288145505 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's a good way of detecting that the client /is/ a browser. < 1288145506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But it just gives you a slightly less rich UI if you don't. < 1288145517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Specifically, "more" is a link, not a JS dropdown menu. < 1288145519 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.2.11/20101012113537] < 1288145526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Woot, now I get to figure out what qualifies me for the GOOGLE INSTANT LOVE < 1288145565 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-US) AppleWebKit/534.7 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/7.0.517.41 Safari/534.7 < 1288145613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...and gives me an older version of the homepage < 1288145620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but I want to not have to embed the version like that. < 1288145643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.webkit_settings.props.user_agent = 'Mozilla/5.0 AppleWebKit KHTML Gecko Chrome Safari' < 1288145644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S GOTTA WORK < 1288145644 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should just find all the foo/bar strings of every major browser and paste them together. < 1288145652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Way ahead of you :P < 1288145670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOGLE GIVE ME YOUR MOTHERFUCKING NEW LOGO < 1288145676 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox does admit to being Firefox. Stupidly, Iceweasel also admits to being Iceweasel. < 1288145698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how user agents are fucked up. < 1288145704 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.12) Gecko/20100911 Iceweasel/3.5.12 (like Firefox/3.5.12) <-- a lot like it, in fact. < 1288145727 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with it being the same software with s/Firefox/Iceweasel/g < 1288145730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I have a proposal. < 1288145750 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid. < 1288145764 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally made WebSplat work on Opera. Now it works everywhere :( < 1288145780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Any modern, standards-compliant browser -- baseline basically being IE9 in standards compliance mode -- can have the string "sane", with word boundaries around it, in their User-Agent. If a website detects "sane", it shall not detect anything else beyond that. < 1288145785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Thus < 1288145788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User-Agent: Safari (sane) < 1288145792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User-Agent: sane Firefox < 1288145793 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1288145808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...and when the next generation of web standards comes out, know what that'll be? < 1288145810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: sane/2! < 1288145821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :User-Agent: Safari (sane (compatible; sane/2)) < 1288145823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOOO < 1288145829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opera will claim to be sane immediately. < 1288145839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then if you want to support Opera properly, you'll have to check for sane-but-not-Opera. < 1288145843 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288145855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Another rule: Opera may not identify as sane. < 1288145856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, IE9 can only report whether it's sane or not AFTER it's downloaded the file, making the user-agent worthless. < 1288145862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1288145871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Congrats, you have made sanity insane. < 1288145899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LOL < 1288145919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: when the stack overflow guys found out, via reddit, that their site would willingly copy out a script tag onto their careers side, constituting a massive XSS hole: < 1288145920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Um, thanks? No one is perfect. Would kindly ask for a white-hat approach in the future and not a firehose from reddit: team@stackoverflow.com]] < 1288145926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gee, guys, it's not easy to prevent against XSS. < 1288145929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to escape strings and shit. < 1288145945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of our company's cofounders wrote a long article on how to name variables so that it's obvious when it's safe to inline things in a page or not. < 1288145948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd. < 1288145951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give us a break. < 1288146065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : self.webkit_settings.props.user_agent = 'Kayak Mozilla/6.0 WebKit/9.9.9.9 Safari/600' < 1288146067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IT WORKS < 1288146158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kayak (Mozilla/5.0; WebKit) < 1288146159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better. < 1288146200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You are currently viewing Google Mail in basic HTML.   Upgrade your browser for faster, better Google Mail" < 1288146202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YOU IN THE FUCK HOLE < 1288146270 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know you want to send the user agent *properly*. < 1288146278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Kayak (WebKit) < 1288146283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude, I fucking did. < 1288146285 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It breaks shit. < 1288146294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck them. < 1288146297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Google thinks I'm running Browser: The 1995 Edition, gmail doesn't let me in... < 1288146300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well it does < 1288146304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only to basic html < 1288146312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tl;dr no, i'm not sending a reasonable user agent :P < 1288146325 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bug report. Google should know better than user agent scanning. < 1288146332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but they don't. < 1288146340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And half the shitty-fucking web doesn't either. < 1288146347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Google preach against user agent sniffing but do it anyway. < 1288146349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is nothing new. < 1288146352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Motherfucking hell. < 1288146464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH JOY NOW IT LETS ME IN < 1288146476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kayak (Mozilla/5.0 X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-gb AppleWebKit/531.2+ KHTML, like Gecko Version/5.0 Safari/531.2+) < 1288146503 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you make it have any more ridiculous claims? < 1288146537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (Dillo) < 1288146545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AmigaOS/3 < 1288146555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SPARC, like PDP-11 < 1288146566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, add Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; X11; compatible) < 1288146577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lynx < 1288146579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it claims to be Mozilla 4 compatible IE6 compatible on X11. < 1288146580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288146590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aqua, like X11 < 1288146595 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288146631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, stick every one of these strings in there. < 1288146636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.user-agents.org/ < 1288146647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this tea sucks. :( < 1288146658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wonder what the fuck Version/5.0 even MEANS < 1288146677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Netscape 5.0. Honest. < 1288146687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, that's Mozilla/5.0. < 1288146690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1288146693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version/5.0? < 1288146696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the *fuck*? < 1288146815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's Version, version 5.0. < 1288146870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kayak (Mozilla/5.0; KHTML, like Gecko; WebKit/531.2+; Safari/531.2+) < 1288146873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This better motherfucking work. < 1288146891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT APPEARS WE ARE NOT COOL ENOUGH TO GET THE FANCY NEW GOOGLE IMAGES < 1288146928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.user-agents.org/ <-- this is amazingly terribly designed < 1288146934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1288146944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I can probably get rid of "KHTML, like Gecko", right? < 1288146950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gecko" should do fine. < 1288146970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That is to convince some stupid things that you're using KHTML. < 1288146983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No website sniffs for KHTML. I *refuse* to believe that. < 1288146995 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am sure they exist. < 1288147001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There are also IE-only websites. < 1288147033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why you add Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; X11; compatible) < 1288147034 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288147055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that makes websites rather reasonably give me the IE-sucks-compatibility page :p < 1288147060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288147100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Version/5.0 makes google images work < 1288147101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not joking < 1288147109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version/5.0. < 1288147112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Mozilla/5.0 < 1288147114 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version. < 1288147116 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The hell. < 1288147117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1288147130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You also need Mozilla/5.0 and Gecko or WebKit or whatever to get google's frontpage at the maximal version. < 1288147140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh. < 1288147156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Couldn't it just... Check for the needed functions? < 1288147168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: l o l < 1288147221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Kayak (Mozilla/5.0; Gecko; WebKit/531.2+; Safari/531.2+; Version/5.0) < 1288147224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This appears to do the trick. < 1288147274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh. < 1288147279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Getting rid of the Safari version breaks things though; sweet! < 1288147335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From this I can conclude that we need to commit genocide against morons. < 1288147346 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are the primary reason for everything sucking. < 1288147426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is there a fancy Buddhist term for becoming one with everything? < 1288147441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None that I know of. < 1288147456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I know very little about Buddhist terminology. < 1288147463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But I need one. It's going to be the name of the function that sets the user agent to claim to be everything. :) < 1288147464 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Achieving Nirvana. < 1288147473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: No shit :P < 1288147484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I mean a fancy term for the act of achieving Nirvana. < 1288147490 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un < 1288147497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hù'kiȳô is Japanese for Buddhism! That's about as far as I go. < 1288147508 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grand Harmonization? < 1288147514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bukkyō)[仏教] < 1288147520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: bah! < 1288147531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't they just have a word for it like < 1288147534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umstajeridahava < 1288147539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want my function to be incomprehensibly-named < 1288147542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it does an incomprehensible thing < 1288147554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that Sasha definitely hasn't been in here before with that nick < 1288147563 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bodhi. < 1288147586 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bodhi? I know someone IRL with that name... < 1288147597 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1288147607 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sanskrit for enlightenment or something < 1288147608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets the feeling that Sasha is a buddhist :p < 1288147618 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1288147630 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno exactly, my sanskrit's a wee bit rusty. < 1288147633 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, elliott < 1288147638 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a devout atheist < 1288147648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's ever said bodhi here either, so presumably Sasha was referring to my query < 1288147648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My sanskrit consists of a single loanword in Japanese! < 1288147691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(馬鹿)[hàka]{baka} < 1288147692 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was. Bodhi is the word you want, maybe. < 1288147695 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Gluttony < 1288147708 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe this is the nick you're more familiar with? < 1288147714 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1288147732 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott might be < 1288147740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't even recall any regulars from Phoenix, AZ. < 1288147744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps < 1288147746 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was one of the folks that migrated in from an XKCD channel. < 1288147755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gluttony: nope. < 1288147760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can easily name all of those ones though. < 1288147769 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coulda sworn I was. < 1288147770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have them on my HIT LIST because I'm EVIL and CRUEL to EVERYONE. < 1288147772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Believe the hype. < 1288147788 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Branan, Caitlin.. one other, and me. < 1288147792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:42:15 --- join: Chachi (~WHAT@97-124-45-71.phnx.qwest.net) joined #esoteric < 1288147803 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That matches the whois. < 1288147806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One other was Decabra. < 1288147810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also some CatSandwich guy. < 1288147816 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Chachi < 1288147819 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yoop < 1288147824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've driven them all away because of my IMMENSE POWERS OF ASSHOLERY apparently < 1288147824 0 :Gluttony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Chachi < 1288147824 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chachismo < 1288147830 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1288147834 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Congratulations! < 1288147836 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't sure what nick I was using < 1288147841 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sasha < 1288147849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I know, right?! < 1288147849 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the one I like the best, though. < 1288147869 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gluttony's another common one, it's what sin I embody. < 1288147870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/HhYA kayak(1) 0.00000001 < 1288147882 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend of mine made the UNIX interface for XKCD ... I should get him to draw XKCD-hat-guy as a WebSplat character and have him put that in as an April fools joke :P < 1288147888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It can view Google and go from there. It does nothing else. < 1288147893 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288147895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think you should disown your friend forever. :p < 1288147907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it's chromakode < 1288147945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhh, yes? As opposed to who? < 1288147956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Anyone else who likes xkcd in any way :P < 1288147970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DUDE BEHOLD MY SOFTWARE ENGINEERING SKILLZ < 1288147974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XKCD is occasionally sufferable! < 1288147979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I CALLED LIKE *SEVEN* API FUNCTIONS < 1288147981 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty okay < 1288147985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Maybe a year or two ago. < 1288147992 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the people that read it more than it, usually < 1288147996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am pretty sure I recall... three mediocre comics in the last year. < 1288148003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: that's funny, the people who read it are generally worse :p < 1288148028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, hey, xkcd recently went over 50% crappy. < 1288148035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(400 being around the time it started going really downhill) < 1288148041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*celebration* < 1288148054 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That appears to be a very good argument for higher-level languages right there. < 1288148068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: NOW ANY MORON CAN MAKE A TERRIBLE BROWSER < 1288148079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you look carefully that thing even has XEmbed support. < 1288148091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You have to put the window ID as an argument to Browser though :P < 1288148093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure, it's more complex than it should be, buuuut that's still not bad. < 1288148103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now switch to it. < 1288148108 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1288148124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Just because it doesn't support tabs, windows, URL entry, or keyboard bindings! < 1288148177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops that code doesn't run :D < 1288148183 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Eh. Some of them are rather good. < 1288148187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :achieve_nirvana needs a self argument < 1288148190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: the people or the comics? < 1288148194 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288148222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: How apropos! http://xkcd.com/169/ < 1288148259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is that actually irony? Dare I say so for fear of the hordes of reddit users itching for a chance to quote Alanis Morisette?) < 1288148269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Morissette, google tells me < 1288148273 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, it's a completely fine response < 1288148277 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant both. < 1288148285 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked an OR question < 1288148297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR in natural language = either list elements, or XOR < 1288148303 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288148315 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natlangs are rather screwy < 1288148329 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to restate my answer, both. < 1288148339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure they are, but only when you deliberately go out of your way to override your brain's natural processing of them :P < 1288148339 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288148352 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, natural processing < 1288148354 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a joke < 1288148376 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I was to allow it to just do its own thing, there would me much fornication and little rejoicing < 1288148385 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of little fornication and much rejoicing < 1288148403 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ooh, opposite gender. Allow them to fornicate with you." < 1288148421 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why so picky? < 1288148455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: You'd also have to fornicate with every member of the opposite gender :P < 1288148482 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. And some of them aren't so nice-looking. < 1288148502 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is my hardwiring telling me that they have relatively little disease < 1288148502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly :P < 1288148515 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yop < 1288148529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if we go past every layer of hardwiring, turns out we don't need to fornicate at all! < 1288148537 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ooh, same (biological) class? Allow them to fornicate with you." < 1288148537 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychology is a funny thing. < 1288148539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apparently my browser supports HTML 5 video except it only plays the audio. < 1288148541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SWEET < 1288148563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet. < 1288148578 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uhh, maybe it just doesn't support the particular codec. < 1288148591 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, your browser as in the browser you're hacking together :P < 1288148593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I've tried it on like three examples. < 1288148598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: My browser is currently WebKit. < 1288148601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if WebKit does it it should work :P < 1288148635 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, does it actually ship in source form with H.264 support, or does it require some lower-level system support? < 1288148635 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288148651 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not really picky, so much as societal norms. I'm still not sure of my own sexual orientation. < 1288148669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how there's this idea that you have to FIGURE OUT YOUR RIGIDLY-DEFINED SEXUAL ORIENTATION < 1288148673 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288148683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SPEAKING OF SOCIETAL NORMS HYUK < 1288148684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Do I find this person attractive? Like do I *really*? But my sexual orientation says I don't! WHAAT" < 1288148697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Idonno, does it actually ship in source form with H.264 support, or does it require some lower-level system support? < 1288148703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p. sure i have all the evil things necessary to play h.264 but < 1288148705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll google theora < 1288148709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THEORA IS SO AWESOME RIGHT? < 1288148718 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: See: Unsure of own sexual orientation < 1288148718 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it certainly doesn't ship with theora support. < 1288148723 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try anything once. < 1288148728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Are you unsure of who you're attracted to? < 1288148734 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288148736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, who the fuck cares? If so, your brain is broken. < 1288148739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: No, I mean, individual people. < 1288148743 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1288148764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Here's a hint: sexual orientation is nowhere near as well-defined as you may think it is. < 1288148770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to believe that you can see someone and not have an impulse reaction as to their attractiveness because that's, like, one of the most fundamental snap-decisions the brain makes. < 1288148774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like most everything, shit is *complicated*. < 1288148783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What support does it ship with then? >_< < 1288148798 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am aware of this < 1288148803 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Probably only support for relying on the underlying OS to support shit :) < 1288148812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I LIKE HOW DUCKS < 1288148824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay that plays. < 1288148827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebM hooray :P < 1288148829 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm diagnosed with some autism. < 1288148845 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebM for the winses! < 1288148847 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in a way, my brain could be considered "broken" < 1288148857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: You and every other fucking person on the internet. < 1288148871 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not been diagnosed with and do not have autism. < 1288148872 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a paper saying so < 1288148875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have I! < 1288148880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: Shit means nothing. < 1288148881 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no such paper. < 1288148885 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a registered psychologist with an MD < 1288148890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: OMG ME TOO < 1288148893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'RE LIKE SOULMATES < 1288148897 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1288148907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As we all know, psychology is the most reliable, scientific and well-grounded profession on earth. < 1288148913 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're so awesome sometimes :P < 1288148916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And autism the least vaguely-defined mental illness in the universe. < 1288148922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's because I have autism < 1288148926 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1288148947 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a couple of really nasty things < 1288148981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: In fact, they thought I had so much autism that I should be put in a mental unit for almost a year! < 1288148983 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in addition to this, I tend to supress emotions. It's second nature. < 1288148985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION legally certified insane person < 1288148995 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legally-certified < 1288149002 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because insane is a lawyer-term < 1288149006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1288149007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is. < 1288149022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least they certainly threatened to make it one. < 1288149028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I totally need a certificate < 1288149031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could frame it < 1288149068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: The fundamental problem with just going and saying "well, I'm autistic" is this: it's a valid excuse for *hardly anything*. < 1288149088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, too, it'd be handy to have an easy excuse for everything. < 1288149092 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am mentioning it as a cause for an effect. < 1288149107 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never use it as an excuse. < 1288149110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was younger i would kick up fits whenever anything didn't go my way because i was a terrible person and then just blamed it on assburgers < 1288149115 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not parsing it that way. Actually... I'm parsing it as an almost non-sequitur. < 1288149118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem was i believed it < 1288149146 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The effect being, not making snap judgements about the attractiveness of people. < 1288149156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not a characteristic of autism. < 1288149157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At all. < 1288149163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Being autistic does not in any way change how your boner works. < 1288149169 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, I was told it was. < 1288149173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not even your, ahem, boner :P < 1288149178 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mental < 1288149179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure even asexual people do it. < 1288149186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They make the snap decision, they just don't feel any compulsion to act on it or anything. < 1288149204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty sure it's one of the most basic recognitions the brain makes. < 1288149211 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I lead with my head instead of my heart. Emotion tends to get in the way of reasoning and logic. < 1288149212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah yeah yeah. < 1288149220 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: omg ur like mr. spak < 1288149231 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls eyes < 1288149242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Currently, I'm tempted to say you're either asexual or full of shit. < 1288149266 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, seeing as how the emotions I usually feel are horrible terrible things as defined by society, I tend not to express them. < 1288149277 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Probably the first one. < 1288149284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm a paedophile!" < 1288149286 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh #esoteric . < 1288149290 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhhhh #esoteric . < 1288149292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But I can't express my inner paedophilia ;__;" < 1288149302 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Heheheh. < 1288149310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! #esoteric! Don't stop! Ohh! < 1288149310 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you can make your own judgements. I won't tell you what to think. < 1288149312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Gregor's next, untyped line < 1288149314 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You know full well it's pædophilia. < 1288149322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Fuck you :P < 1288149337 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipædophelia < 1288149338 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, elliott, it's more like severe anger and depression. < 1288149355 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your search - wikipædophelia - did not match any documents. D-8 < 1288149371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Wikipedophile < 1288149378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipædophilia ← There. < 1288149390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can spellllllll 8-D < 1288149396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...oh man xD < 1288149398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fail < 1288149426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that not being able to spell "pædophilia" counts as a win :P < 1288149432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Þou fail'ſt ſo hard. < 1288149445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hate paedophaeila so much, I can't even type it!" < 1288149447 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the a-e digraph looks rather silly in monospace < 1288149450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why, does it disgust you that much?" < 1288149451 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288149454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, I'm just terrible at spelling it." < 1288149470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Ligature, not digraph, and that's your problem, isn't it? < 1288149474 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I like the thorn and long-s. < 1288149490 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288149491 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://encyclopediadramatica.com/File:So_cool.jpg <-- in a situation with any relevance whatsoever, this would be hilarious. < 1288149509 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Still looks silly, like an a and an e smooshed together. < 1288149518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah referencing xkcd irl is hilarious :p < 1288149525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did someone in here have a question about whether or not Enhanced CWEB can be used to create webpages? < 1288149526 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... referencing XKCD? < 1288149535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I *envy* your xkcd ignorance. < 1288149538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://xkcd.com/285/ < 1288149540 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saſha: Problem þine. < 1288149552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also: click any "citation needed" link on Wikipedia. See that comic. < 1288149571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: As with reddit and digg, I use people on the web as my XKCD filter :P < 1288149583 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is. I am pointing out an opinion. < 1288149584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a good one. < 1288149595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But it is also ridiculously super-famous :P < 1288149604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the point of being internet-iconic. < 1288149604 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That [citation needed] picture is from a #xkcd meetup, I'm pretty sure. < 1288149625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WORST MEETUP EVER < 1288149625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I've PROBABLY seen it before. < 1288149626 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even a normal xkcd meetup < 1288149633 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily the channel < 1288149644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mayhaps. < 1288149646 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think my terrible memory is a blessing :P < 1288149664 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288149671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: WANNA WRITE FUSE CODE? < 1288149672 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to start using fun letters too. < 1288149687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm adopting long s into my romanisation scheme for no good reason. Other than that it looks nice. < 1288149694 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :■ µ█x☼Θ⌐æô! < 1288149695 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU SHOULD EXPOSE THE FUSE API TO JAVASCRIPT THEN WRITE THE *kills self* < 1288149704 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I TOTALLY AGREE < 1288149712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also ł < 1288149723 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh yeah, I feel much saner now. maybe you could try to re-explain, if you're not too busy coding < 1288149729 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koriȳa ſô miſeteru ne. < 1288149736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: sarcasm? :p < 1288149747 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, truth < 1288149771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{こりゃそう見せてるね。}[korya sō miseteru ne.] < 1288149806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: tl;dr there's webkit in a window. The browser exposes a directory on the filesystem tree. It has files like "location", containing the current browser location, and the like. (You can imagine the fully-extended form of this, a "dom" directory, containing a representation of the entire document as an FS tree -- but that's a bit ridiculous). < 1288149812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: It can be controlled by writing to these files. < 1288149827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: For example, "echo http://reddit.com/ >location" would make the browser load reddit.com. < 1288149853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And ı? < 1288149858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No. < 1288149861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is ugly. < 1288149867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now include ł :P < 1288149873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ɨ < 1288149880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1288149914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How much will you charge to convert a simple Python program into C? >:) < 1288149917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION evil < 1288149917 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if texting while driving is as bad for you as drinking while driving, and you shouldn't drink and derive, then texting (IRC-ing) and simultaneously following the derivation of the Mean Value Theorem is bad) < 1288149938 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Altcode? < 1288149950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I don't use Windows. < 1288149951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: All the money. < 1288149953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't tell you. < 1288149964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's only 44 lines! < 1288149969 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the point of a romanisation scheme that uses unicode? < 1288149970 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Someone that doesn't like games. < 1288149984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I play plenty of games. (well, not right now, but that's for other reasons) < 1288149993 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Linux? < 1288150008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Better matching the native orthography. < 1288150010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Of course most of them are either native, work in Wine (which supports many things perfectly), or can be easily run in a VM at a pinch. < 1288150016 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1288150026 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I attempt using Wine, my box fails. < 1288150029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Also: seemingly unlike you, I value other things above the absolute easiest game experience, such as being able to program without wanting to kill myself. < 1288150039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Especially handy for demonstrating oddities of the orthography while speaking to an audience that's not going to learn a completely new script. < 1288150040 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It hasn't got enough memory. < 1288150047 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never understood how some people put being able to game in one or two clicks above EVERYTHING ELSE EVER. < 1288150061 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just because I am not a computer programmer means very little < 1288150065 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so, an near as I can follow, you're writing something of a CLI for the web? < 1288150072 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ypu could say I am a polymath < 1288150074 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/web/browser/ < 1288150076 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you* < 1288150079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: you *do* realise this channel is about programming languages? < 1288150087 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1288150093 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came here to learn more about them < 1288150101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: You do realise it's about *esoteric* programming languages? :P < 1288150107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your education here will be ... skewed. < 1288150112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Something like that... except the filesystem metaphor goes deeper than just a CLI. < 1288150122 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure. < 1288150124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: A filesystem represents a piece of information, a resource. < 1288150126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: How else could I discuss tiȳônnhų, tàkutenn, or hanntàkutenn with someone who can't read Japanese? < 1288150132 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, hell, I don't learn useful natlangs. < 1288150135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Consider a filesystem tree like a programming language namespace. < 1288150159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: We're talking the SIMPLEST python script here < 1288150161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: :| < 1288150163 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a period there where I was fluent in /ESPERANTO/ < 1288150178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few people here know esperanto < 1288150179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think pikhq does < 1288150185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: "was fluent"? Meþinkſt þou ſuckeſt. < 1288150194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but yeah, you cannot be ex-fluent < 1288150197 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Jes, sed mia Esperanto malbonas. < 1288150202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fluency is pretty much defined as the point where you have it internalised :P < 1288150224 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mine isn't so great either, I rarely use it. < 1288150301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :でも僕の日本語が良い!{tèmo, hòku no nihonnkò kà î.}[demo, boku no nihongo ga ii.](But, my Japanese is good.) < 1288150304 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also currently learning German as part of school and am /okay/ at ASL, but not quite fluent. < 1288150312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Thought: Arch is for people who want to pretend to understand and follow the minimalist Unix philosophy without actually having to give up any of their stupid trinkets. < 1288150323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Possibly. < 1288150331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is it? Maybe it is. < 1288150345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You'd be proud of me, I'm making a web browser. < 1288150368 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. Would the German word for Japanese be "Japanisch"? < 1288150376 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what has everyone who knew Esperanto switched to instead? Lojban? < 1288150383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: You tell me. < 1288150390 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: O, you are? Are you using a existing system or making a new one? < 1288150391 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1288150399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, uh, I'm using WebKit, but that's it. < 1288150401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Esperanto is still the most viable auxlang. < 1288150424 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mein Japanisch kennen bist null. < 1288150426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Mostly by merit of being the only one that's viable. < 1288150427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Currently I use Vonkeror it is a existing Mozilla system, it is not best though) < 1288150428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I could, theoretically, write my own rendering engine, but considering it's almost a hundred thousand lines of code to write one that works with most web pages properly, that sounds un-fun. < 1288150441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I'm writing everything but the rendering engine. < 1288150447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: DUDE BOJLAN < 1288150447 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's not so widely used any more. < 1288150449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*JOLBAN < 1288150458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BOLJAN < 1288150461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BOLAJN < 1288150463 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3rd time's the charm? < 1288150467 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOJBAN? < 1288150469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FRTKLD < 1288150476 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe interest in auxlangs just died down generally as people learn English? < 1288150476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*KRAUTROCK < 1288150486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: There exist *no other* auxlangs with any hint of popularity, though. < 1288150487 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Seems that way. < 1288150498 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Lojban. < 1288150507 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Actually, interest in auxlangs died down when Hitler killed 3/4ths of the speakers. < 1288150534 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am also wondering if ASL would be considered an auxlang. < 1288150536 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? really? /me reads Wikipedia < 1288150542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Not really. < 1288150555 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best is a completely different way, using only an existing Javascript engine and writing render engine it doesn't have to work correctly, as long as web pages are workable. The JavaScript DOM also has to be completely different; image loading must be different; etc. And there must be a command-line access of services. < 1288150558 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's derived from a few other SLs, IIRC < 1288150574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: At the time, a very large number of Esperanto speakers were in Poland. And Jewish. < 1288150581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: THINGS ARE NOT BETTER MERELY BY VIRTUE OF BEING DIFFERENT FROM OTHER EXISTING THINIGS < 1288150582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THINGS < 1288150589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESPECIALLY WHEN NOTHING ELSE WORKS WITH THE DIFFERENT THING < 1288150641 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I guess I can see. < 1288150644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: In particular, Lidia Zamenhof (Lidja ZAMENHOF) < 1288150668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it Esperanto policy to uppercase SURNAMES? < 1288150676 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1288150676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: Most languages are that way. < 1288150695 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems as if he was uppercasing to emphasize < 1288150696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you sure you wanted to address that to Sasha? < 1288150699 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: True < 1288150702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: i doubt it < 1288150711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: "Derived from other languages". < 1288150722 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these highlights < 1288150729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha < 1288150731 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this bright glaring orange on my screen < 1288150736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SASHA < 1288150739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA SASHA < 1288150745 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR FACE < 1288150753 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAS A CHARISMA MODIFIER OF -6 < 1288150773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The uppercasing of surnames is somewhat more common in Esperanto than elsewhere. It's actually a convention in Latin-script-using languages where the surname might be ambiguous. < 1288150786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: that's what she said < 1288150863 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I thought freenode was safe from shouting. add to ignore list... < 1288150885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: seriously? < 1288150893 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am developing an a priori language, with an individual system of syntax and grammar. < 1288150900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: YOU SHOUTED "I" THERE < 1288150903 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's *especially* useful for Japanese names, where the actual surname order *might be either way* when written in English. < 1288150910 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its method of indicating names is a special punctuation mark. < 1288150912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: YOU SHOUTED THAT SURNAME BACK THER < 1288150913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*THERE < 1288150919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: SHAME < 1288150919 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i can't hear you :p < 1288150921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Japanese/East Asian/ < 1288150921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHAME ON YOU < 1288150940 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am merely using some English conventions in my typings < 1288150942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, it's KIM Jong-Il but Nobuo UEMATSU. < 1288150968 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does not help folks like me. I write in allcaps. < 1288150984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ME TOO < 1288150986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONSTANTLY < 1288150989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ALSO THINK IN ALLCAPS < 1288151024 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do you consume some sort of drug? < 1288151031 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my manual handwriting is allcaps. It's a reflex on keyboards to use the shift key. < 1288151036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: LIFE, BABY < 1288151047 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consume some powerful antidepressants. Does that count? < 1288151053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: That's fairly ridiculous. < 1288151066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: he asked me < 1288151068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though my manual handwriting has long ceased to be readable by others, so who am I to judge? < 1288151069 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: e.g., caffeine? < 1288151086 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Eh, it works. < 1288151094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: well, yes, caffeine makes its way into my body < 1288151099 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also cross Zs, 7s, and 0s < 1288151105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: but i'm perfectly calm right now if that's WHAT YOU'ER THIMNKING WOOOOOOO < 1288151121 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they don't look like 2s, 1s and Os < 1288151143 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'know? < 1288151154 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just jealous of your seemingly boundless energy. I myself am tired all the time, thus the lowercase < 1288151170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: YES PRESSING THE CAPSLOCK IS VERY ENERGY-USING < 1288151174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: i'm tired all the time too :p < 1288151178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: I no longer use an orthography anyone else knows. :P < 1288151183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not right now but < 1288151190 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Come again? < 1288151198 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do no use the capslock key < 1288151207 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use some amazing shift key skills < 1288151250 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My typical handwriting is nowadays English written using Chinese characters and a Latin-alphabet-derived script with an absurd number of ligatures. < 1288151274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :High school was boring, what can I say? < 1288151315 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1288151321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I want to see that. < 1288151322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Now. < 1288151326 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I like some of what I write to be legible. < 1288151349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't have a scanner handy, sadly. < 1288151356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: GIMP! yeahno < 1288151362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I did, I would be quite happy to oblige. < 1288151378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Try and represent it in Unicodeish? You won't get most of the ligatures and the fancy Latin script but you can get some of them and the freaky half-Chinese stuff. < 1288151381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sounds amazing. :P < 1288151421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Uh, the basic gylph forms themselves are highly modified. But I can maybe approximate it... < 1288151444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be honest, I don't even handwrite. < 1288151461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a computer. I can type many times faster than any handwriting. It breaks down a bit with drawings etc. though :) < 1288151509 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can type at 75WPM on a computer, 65WPM on a typewriter, and about 70WPM handwritten. < 1288151513 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a graphics tablet... still can < 1288151517 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t use it < 1288151523 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, using shorthand, I can get about 120WPM < 1288151524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can type at 110 wpm or so when i'm just copying text < 1288151532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including error correction < 1288151537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think slower than that < 1288151540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: i'm going to < 1288151541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type < 1288151544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these lines < 1288151545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as fast as i < 1288151546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of them < 1288151549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to show you the < 1288151551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :approximate speed of my < 1288151554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing which is walrus kitten bark < 1288151567 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1288151573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sasha: as these lines < 1288151574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appear on your screen < 1288151576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am typing them < 1288151577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus giving you an idea < 1288151579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of how quickly < 1288151580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can type a range < 1288151582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of various sentences < 1288151582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely < 1288151585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones i am typing here < 1288151591 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can type at a decent speed < 1288151591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they appear on your screen in something approximating real-time, < 1288151596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a vaguely useful estimate. < 1288151602 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have an idea of what I am going to say < 1288151613 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my hands are rather large and this keyboard is small < 1288151618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain freezes up for long periods of time to figure out what to say first :p < 1288151621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1288151668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: u`,t`-基字方t`-m自s有高的m°d!f!-d. b;t私可m@yb- a\pr°x!m@t- it... < 1288151680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What... does that translate as? < 1288151702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Uh, the basic glyph forms themselves are highly modified. But I can maybe approximate it..." < 1288151716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you are a crazy fucker < 1288151728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why is i written as ! < 1288151731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is o written as ^o < 1288151740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is a written as @ mid-sentence < 1288151741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHYYY < 1288151743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that each consonant-vowel combination would be a written as a ligature. < 1288151753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you know whether to use latin or chinese? < 1288151769 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If I know the Chinese for the morphemes of the word I use that, otherwise I don't. < 1288151780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So you could have written the entire previous line as Chinese. < 1288151786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you expanded your knowledge. < 1288151795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible. < 1288151810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except "the" doesn't really have an analog in Chinese. < 1288151818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288151819 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that doesn't matter too much; it's a single glyph. < 1288151823 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use Gregg shorthanf < 1288151825 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-f < 1288151834 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+t < 1288151850 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h gets turned into a grave diacritic, you see. < 1288151861 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288151872 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a '-like thing in Gregg shorthand < 1288151889 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, yeah, and each ligatured glyph can be written as a single stroke. < 1288151940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Diacritics, sadly, can't really fit into that well. < 1288152056 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep not < 1288152063 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now* < 1288152145 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's really quite nice writing Latin-origin or Greek-origin words using that. < 1288152181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Orthographic"? 正書的. < 1288152773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several hours and Midori has yet to crash on me. < 1288152774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1288154222 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288155020 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you write shorthand? < 1288155210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a book about Pitman shorthand < 1288155470 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< zzo38> Did someone in here have a question about whether or not Enhanced CWEB can be used to create webpages? < 1288155471 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: cpressey told me to tell you: Boo! < 1288155481 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was me. < 1288155542 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was thinking of yesweb. < 1288155567 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, way too scrollback. < 1288155580 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this terminal does not do unicode, so there's a lot of ????'s < 1288155637 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: You can make CGI programs in Enhanced CWEB, you could also make TeX macros to make printed formatting and HTML; you could also use make file mode and @{ ... @} even, or make a C program to put things together, or whatever. < 1288155673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: yesweb can do multiple files, but it doesn't do much and is mostly only the proof of concept. yesweb can be improved, however. It is public domain. < 1288155675 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could I make a C/HTML polyglot that displays acceptably in a web pages, but also compiles with a C compiler? < 1288155708 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is not really a Enhanced CWEB-specific question, I guess) < 1288155763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: I don't know. Try? You might need CSS and/or JavaScript used, and you probably need to set the MIME type for sure. < 1288155869 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers starting out with "#include "... < 1288155892 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not very good at polyglots) < 1288155918 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288155971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: It almost certainly wouldn't be valid HTML. < 1288155989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye_: But you could probably abuse a tag soup parser into compliance. < 1288155992 0 :catseye_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1288156003 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that would be the plan, yeah. < 1288156020 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it doesn't look awful" in some mainstream web browser. < 1288156029 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is why you need to set the MIME type and use CSS < 1288156721 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually i'd like to write my own x86-subset assembler < 1288156838 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would mainly do checking and stuff, and could use nasm as its backend < 1288157294 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally I fixed two problems with internationalization.wi program. (I probably never need text internationalization in most programs I write (especially command-line programs), but perhaps someone will need a program from me that supports it?) < 1288157307 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288157347 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know what these two problems are? < 1288157567 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1288157587 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288157611 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288158788 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288160090 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First problem is you can't have categories/comments. Now an optional category/comment can be placed as the second parameter to intl(). Both together are used to uniquely identify, and the category/comment (called the auxiliary) is placed in the default.lang file separated from the main text by ~00 which represents a null character, and is therefore ignored when the file is loaded. < 1288160157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Second problem is if you write a translation and the program changes, the index numbers for the strings might change. This is dealt with by a separate program called intlconv (no change is needed in internationalization.wi to correct this second problem). < 1288160229 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, let's say you want to make a Klingon translation and you already have one, but that the program has changed and you need to update it. Three steps as follows: < 1288160257 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 1: Run "intlconv default.lang klingon.xlang" to update your .xlang file with the changes. < 1288160276 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 2: Edit the .xlang file to add new translations. < 1288160296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Step 3: Run "intlconv default.lang klingon.xlang klingon.lang" to create the .lang file which is loadable by the program. < 1288160395 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this reasonable? < 1288160433 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems reasonable to me. < 1288160499 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And internationalization.wi is still only 219 lines long (and this includes things such as chapter headings, which GNU programs do not have) < 1288160522 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both files are public domain (which is compatible with the GNU GPL). < 1288160598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you now think this program is complete, with the changes I specified? < 1288160652 0 :Rugxulo!~chatzilla@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288160669 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard to say if it's complete, but I can't think of any other features that I want ;) < 1288160699 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, I'm building NetBSD from source... < 1288160706 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will let this go while I sleep < 1288160718 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Exactly! I don't think there are any other features that are needed. < 1288160806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to use _() as an abbreviation for intl() C macros won't work. Instead do: @{ void _$() { intl$(); } @} < 1288160896 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey == catseye ??? < 1288160951 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Can be checked same account by: NS INFO catseye < 1288160995 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.... < 1288161010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that both "catseye" and "cpressey" are logged in now < 1288161061 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only "cpressey" is the one having the 330 line ("is logged in as") in the WHOIS message < 1288161066 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288161172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: Does that help you at all? < 1288161198 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I'm saying is that if it's not the same person, somebody chose a confusing nick!! < 1288161205 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on them ;-) < 1288161243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and if that is the case, they took a nick that is registered under someone else's account < 1288161342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't hear cpressey complaining, so who cares I guess < 1288161382 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1288162418 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288163617 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, forgot I was on IRC < 1288163622 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I didn't miss much :-P < 1288163686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Later on I can write other programs in Enhanced CWEB which is also much smaller than GNU software, and much more efficient, and can be made into a book, even. < 1288163742 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288163764 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller and more efficient? how? < 1288164255 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-0-184.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288165001 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1288165618 0 :Rugxulo!~chatzilla@adsl-065-013-115-246.sip.mob.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288165683 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eight tabs in a row is weird, I don't know how people think that's reasonable < 1288166198 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288166243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rugxulo: As far as I know, it is the same person, yes. < 1288166263 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi fizzie! :-) < 1288166289 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, I found Ben Olmstead on the 'Net recently, he mentioned a JIT interpreter for Befunge by John Colagioia (sp?), ever heard of it? < 1288166292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morning. < 1288166301 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barely (2am) ;-) < 1288166309 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard of one; it was rather more limited than what jitfunge is aiming at. < 1288166330 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, he said he didn't have MCBC anymore :-( but that John's JIT version was better anyways < 1288166333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, I haven't made any progress on that front; too many things again. < 1288166342 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, real life (tm) ... I hear ya < 1288166399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1288166400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1288166860 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288167681 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As for 12GB of RAM? “Because I can” is one reason" ... lol !!! < 1288167730 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironic that he's blogging about memory errors < 1288167850 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@129.21.117.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288167876 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYN < 1288168584 0 :Rugxulo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1288169183 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288169450 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-45-71.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288169552 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288170485 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1288170966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In August 1990 an unemployed French nuclear physicist named André Gardes attempted a singlehanded invasion of Sark, armed with a semi-automatic weapon. The night Gardes arrived he put up signs declaring his intention to take over the island the following day at noon. He was arrested while sitting on a bench, changing the gun's magazine and waiting for noon to arrive, by the island's volunteer Constable." < 1288170973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's always something wonky about physicists. < 1288170978 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esp. nuclear ones. < 1288172987 0 :atrapado!~ro@193.144.79.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288173530 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.11/20101012113537] < 1288174143 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288175330 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288175501 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this page: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/howto-linux-unix-bash-shell-setup-prompt.html < 1288175508 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I add colors to my prompt? < 1288175508 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can change the color of your shell prompt to impress your friend or to make your own life quite easy while working at command prompt. < 1288175538 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. it's that obvious. anyone who gives a shit about colorful prompts has got only one friend. < 1288176057 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288176199 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288176770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288182043 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288184477 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288184530 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288184587 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1288185523 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288185636 0 :nooga!~nooga@maverick.aircity.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1288186256 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288187817 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288189549 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288190339 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288190351 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288191205 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288191289 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I RISE < 1288192670 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Rugxulo it wasn't John Colagioia who wrote the JIT Befunge interpreter, it was Kevin Vigor. < 1288192670 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Consider it noted. < 1288192722 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cheater_: at work I made my prompt a RAINBOW < 1288193203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott NetBSD takes about 2 hour to build on this machine. haven't installed it yet. < 1288193204 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Consider it noted. < 1288194287 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, hm compiling netbsd from another OS or? < 1288194595 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, rebuilding it on NetBSD. going to install it after I confirm by reading the manual how to do that < 1288194614 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288194614 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, ah < 1288194617 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same version as I installed, so no change :) < 1288194631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, just doing it to make sure it works then? < 1288194652 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much. practice for when i update the system sources to actually build an updated version. < 1288194662 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288194674 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION briefly considered running NetBSD-CURRENT < 1288194684 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just now < 1288194697 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, i dunno < 1288194710 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too old for that sort of thing :) < 1288194727 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, why is netbsd called netbsd btw? < 1288194735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my best guess would be same reason as nethack < 1288194904 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be my guess too < 1288194921 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's BSD hacked on by people on the Net < 1288194937 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288194990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, right < 1288195278 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my prof just 'accidentally' proved the fundamental theorem of calculus < 1288195428 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288195440 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saludos. < 1288196470 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it's more dead in here now than it was in the wee hours of the morning. < 1288196668 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288196705 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288196829 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, wait, what's that? < 1288197293 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, isn't it the one about the relationship between integration and differentiation? < 1288197316 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1288197322 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, google agrees with me at least < 1288199784 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288199825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a map of London Underground in the basement yesterday. Now, I just need to make a larger copy...... < 1288200949 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: spontaneous human computation. < 1288201581 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A SIMPLE ALGEBRAIC FORMALIZM FOR WEB DEVELOPMENT THAT'S ALL I ASK IS THAT SO HARD??? < 1288201600 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts throwing things < 1288201919 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there is a role for "lightly mutable" data structures in otherwise pure functional programming -- like, in ways that don't affect referential transparency < 1288201978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind < 1288201985 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of memoization, I think < 1288202025 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288202067 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memoization is just an optimization < 1288202097 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i was thinking of what just an optimization, too < 1288202097 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially a fanzy word for 'caching of function calls' < 1288202111 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288202167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Errr ... I don't think that something that can actually change the computational complexity of an operation should be considered a mere "optimization" < 1288202234 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why you can't use that word, it's just that compiler writers have a limited notion of it :) < 1288202239 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's usually transparent to the user, and its intention is to not semantically affect the result in any way, so yes, i'd call it an optimization < 1288202259 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as swapping a bubble sort out with a merge sort is an optimization :) < 1288202344 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i had some sort of insight about proofs and compilers and assembly language last night! < 1288202354 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try to remember it while i go for lunch < 1288202605 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Abandonando < 1288203132 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288203216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, good cheddar cheese. So very delicious. < 1288203313 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ate pacman! < 1288203441 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm sure you have < 1288203447 0 :cheater_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that would be totally like you. < 1288204125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the square root of your godfather's telephone number? < 1288204142 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many bibles have you stolen? (Use roman numerals) < 1288204742 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288205078 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I con't know; is the "Codex of Shared Amplification" a bible? < 1288205095 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: You decide. < 1288205209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then only XXVII BUT I HAD A GOOD REASON < 1288205769 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it wasn't much of an insight. it was something to the effect of: purely functional programs are (comparatively) easy to reason about, while arbitrary assembly language programs are difficult to reason about. it's hard to compile a functional program in a way that is efficient; it's (comparatively) easy to write efficient arbitrary assembly code. And, the more you restrict yourself to non-arbitrary (that is, codifiable, repeatable patterns) a < 1288205861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really new here except that i was considering "reason about" in a formal way: e.g. if you wanted to include a machine-readable proof along with your code. < 1288206008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GHC's optimization changes the complexity of operations all the *time*. < 1288206021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ... Heck, even *Egobfc* changes the complexity of operations all the time. < 1288206032 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It swaps out an O(n) addition operation for an O(1) addition. :) < 1288206076 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeahyeah, I just think maybe we should have different terms (or at least more specific terms) for constant-changing optimizations than for order-of-complexity-reducing optimizations. < 1288206141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't the constant-changing ones pretty much all peephole optimizations? < 1288206143 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1288206149 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: some would use "micro-optimization" for the first kind. < 1288206209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one maybe has yet ANOTHER connotation to it, though. < 1288206217 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Any sort of improvement to a register allocation scheme is going to be a constant-changing optimization, but it won't necessarily be a peephole optimization. < 1288206240 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, something a programmer has manually written in the source code, not a compiler.) < 1288206245 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming uniform but slow access to memory) < 1288206283 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is a wrong assumption and has been for several decades now) < 1288206506 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irrelevant. < 1288206573 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I'm doing is removing one constant-changing optimization from the equation to focus on a different constant. It's still not going to affect the order of complexity. < 1288206614 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what if my caches are RAM and my main memory is a tape? Huh? What then? < 1288206642 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then you're an idiot. < 1288206643 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288207094 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g228060178.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288207360 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I prefer "mad". < 1288207366 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BWAHAHAHAHA < 1288207683 0 :distant_figure!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: underflow < 1288207696 0 :distant_figure!~nine@clam.leg.uct.ac.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1288208119 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://webkit.org/projects/webkit/index.html < 1288208130 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCode + WebKit = if you want a header to be project-wide but not public, --- how the hell were we both just about to mention WebKit? < 1288208131 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just... beautiful *snif* < 1288208232 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webkit webkit webkit < 1288208322 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i love how the sample code on developer.apple.com is all light grey on light blue. < 1288208484 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should set my text editor to use those two colours. MAN. the joy my eyes would feel! < 1288208636 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, light grey on light blue, isn't that pretty poor contrast? < 1288208655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1288208725 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you be the judge: http://developer.apple.com/library/mac/#documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/DisplayWebContent/Tasks/SimpleBrowsing.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/20002025-CJBEHAAG < 1288208767 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCode + WebKit = if you want a header to be project-wide but not public, mark it "private". If you want it to be private, mark it "project". < 1288208792 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit is proof that XCode is a shitty utility, since half the build system is designed to work AROUND XCodec. < 1288208795 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*XCode ... < 1288208882 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: that's not so bad actually < 1288209023 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: to my eyes, it's a hair's breadth away from being invisible < 1288209111 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a larger copy of this London Underground map, and then make some cards and tokens for the game < 1288209192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some stations are on two zones < 1288209273 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288209274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1288209274 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288209274 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1288209274 0 :ais523_!93bcc029@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.192.41 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288209856 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked in some detail at the standard C99 math functions and found some curious stuff. < 1288209882 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What curious stuff did you find? < 1288209893 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: double nan(char* s); // returns a nan represented by the string s < 1288209899 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit strange way to do it IMO < 1288209911 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and double remqou(double x, double y, int *quo); < 1288209915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that one is just weird < 1288209935 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[...] compute the remainder and part of the quotient upon division of x by y. A few bits of the quotient are stored via the quo pointer. The remainder is returned as the function result." < 1288209941 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The value stored via the quo pointer has the sign of x / y and agrees with the quotient in at least the low order 3 bits." < 1288209948 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that useful... < 1288210064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott for the logs, other people who are interested: there's a currenty hilarious proggit submission http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/dwtou/stack_overflow_how_do_i_leave_my_site_vulnerable/ about an XSS vulnerability in Stack Overflow; one of the Stack Overflow admins posted to say they'd corrected it (and were annoyed at the way it was disclosed), and someone replied to him using Jeff Atwood's account saying < 1288210066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've tried being white hat with an SO employee before. All he did was change his password on one site but not any others." < 1288210186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, who is Jeff Atwood? < 1288210197 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the two founders of Stack Overflow < 1288210206 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with Joel Spolsky < 1288210216 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're famous for self-promoting to relatively absurd degrees < 1288210232 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, one of them doesn't know much about programming; the other does, but I can never remember which is which < 1288210251 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288210408 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Jeff Atwood is the Coding Horror guy < 1288210433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288210516 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore Joel must be the one who knows about programming :) < 1288210575 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Joel actually used to be pretty sane. He just likes to talk about how he came to the deep realization that the sky is blue < 1288210596 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/No,// < 1288210602 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sky is blue!? < 1288210664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am now quite comfortable in VB.NET or C#, despite the evils of case sensitivity." -- Jeff Atwood < 1288210784 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No no it gets MUCH BETTER < 1288210787 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I consider the Wumpus my power animal" < 1288210788 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm curious enough to actually read some recent Coding Horror to see what it's like < 1288210822 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, "power animal"? < 1288210824 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that < 1288210840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they are mentioned in fight club < 1288210846 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It links to this: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2006/04/your-personal-brand.html < 1288210858 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's similar to "spirit animal" in meaning < 1288210897 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's also, like, apparently his 1st experience with Hunt the Wumpus was with a *graphical* version of the game? < 1288210914 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, are there graphical versions of it? < 1288210931 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There certainly are. < 1288210936 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't bother with them. < 1288210937 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first experience with it was the Linux port of the old BSD version < 1288210944 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, oh and, ever tried that "be the wumpus" game? Which isn't really graphical < 1288210958 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I knew about it before from the famous Befunge-93 program < 1288210978 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.videogamehouse.net/huntwumpus.html GRAPHICAL BASTARDIZATION < 1288210991 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I haven't < 1288211012 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first exposure to it was in a book compilation of programs from Creative Computing < 1288211051 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY, to the OTHER thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_animal < 1288211052 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it's quite fun. The idea is that you play the wumpus, which is a blind animal and thus you have to try to avoid the arrows and locate the hunter to eat em by sound alone. Playable with headphones. Completely impossible with speakers. < 1288211073 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jeff Atwood is now on my List < 1288211081 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, list for what < 1288211161 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :List of master programmers whose hearts to eat to gain their powers. < 1288211181 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: You know it. < 1288211209 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on list: ESR and Roger Penrose. < 1288211211 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of several sorts of List you could plausibly put Jeff Atwood on < 1288211212 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*List < 1288211218 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is atwood worthy of membership on such a list? why? < 1288211248 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: in case you missed it: "I consider the [graphical] Wumpus my power animal" -- Jeff Atwood < 1288211257 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'd wager he's a very good programmer, but he's really a brilliant programming philosopher. < 1288211278 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knows what programmers need to make them awesome at what they do. < 1288211281 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: hmm, that doesn't impress me... what's a wumpus? < 1288211310 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Read back a ways. :P < 1288211389 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not particularly impressed by Coding Horror so far < 1288211396 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of what I've read is hardware reviews, for no apparent reason < 1288211407 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written as if they're authority passed down from God rather than subjective advice < 1288211419 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The power animal may also lend its ward or charge the wisdom or attributes of its kind. For example, a hawk power animal provides hawk attributes, such as hawk-eye." < 1288211435 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need I remind anyone what the powers of a Wumpus are. < 1288211452 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sticky feet to cling to sides of pits with, and smelling awful. < 1288211486 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and immunity to bats? < 1288211498 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, can't forget that. And eating adventurers. < 1288211522 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All in all a really noble set of attributes. < 1288211616 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coding Horror has hardware reviews? Oh, this just won't stop getting "better". < 1288211664 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup, a whole rant about netbooks. < 1288211785 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a book that used that "Coding Horror" icon as one of its "margin icons"... i used to have a copy. It's popular and I learned nothing from it. < 1288211873 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288211881 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's the same book, but I associate it with one that was about code performance analysis, that explicitly eschewed asymptotic analysis as uselessly abstract, and dealt instead with concrete time measurements. < 1288211884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, what was your insight? < 1288211919 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Efficiency is inversely proportional to ease of formal reasoning of the code. < 1288211944 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The compiled code? < 1288211961 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: if that were true, Haskell would be a lot slower than Befunge < 1288211973 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So easy-to-reason-with compiled code is inefficient, and efficient code is hard to reason with? < 1288212030 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in asm or C, it might make more sense < 1288212039 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microoptimisations often make code harder to read < 1288212043 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try to factor compilation out. < 1288212065 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: A Haskell interpreter of the same complexity as your average Befunge interpreter would be a lot slower than Befunge. < 1288212110 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I thought you meant "interpreter written in Haskell" vs "interpreter written in Befunge" < 1288212156 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just repeat my original summary without trying to compress it < 1288212157 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:55 < cpressey> anyway, it wasn't much of an insight. it was something to the effect of: purely functional programs are (comparatively) easy to reason about, while arbitrary assembly language programs are difficult to reason about. it's hard to compile a functional program in a way that is efficient; it's (comparatively) easy to write efficient < 1288212162 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : arbitrary asembly code. And, the more you restsrict yourself to non-arbitrary (that is, codifiable, repeatable patterns) assembly code, it becomes easier to reason about, but harder to make efficient. < 1288212206 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< cpressey> nothing really new here except that i was considering "reason about" in a formal way: e.g. if you wanted to include a machine-readable proof along with your code. < 1288212244 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, forget this! Let's talk about Jeff Atwood's power animal instead! < 1288212263 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1288212269 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the Wumpus! < 1288212280 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GRAPHICAL Wumpus! < 1288212364 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well, it's easier to embed higher-order typed lambda calculus into hardware using the method I'm using in my research, than it is to embed typical asms with GOTO < 1288212373 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would require large, inefficient workarounds < 1288212402 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I should add "on present models of hardware computation" to my insight, then < 1288212403 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps the insight is that the sort of asm today's processors require isn't very suited for formal reasoning < 1288212406 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1288212426 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it becomes relatively clear why it is, if you do that < 1288212457 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm in general is hard to reason about; subsets may be easier, but it would be a huge coincidence if any given algorithm's fastest implementation happened to fall into one of those subsets < 1288212593 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I want to see some proofs that extremely gory assembly programs are correct < 1288212637 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, well, n/m... I have too many interests < 1288212660 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a formal semantics for assembly, choose what you want to proof, feed it all into Cock^H^Hq, voila :P < 1288212677 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to prove < 1288212836 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's kind of it, though. Any practical assembly language will have a horrible, horrible semantics that will make Coq... unhappy. < 1288212854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anything with a nice semantics, otoh, will be too slow :) < 1288212880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ayup 8-D < 1288213605 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pleasingfungus.com/ < 1288214152 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://manufactoria.com/ < 1288214542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lé sigh. < 1288214549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IPv6 tunnel no longer works. I know not why. < 1288214887 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a srs questn < 1288214892 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is impossible to patent protocols.. < 1288214907 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be possible to create a language which is expressed through protocols.. < 1288214912 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid software patents? < 1288214942 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you patent a language? < 1288214987 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1288214989 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you? < 1288215000 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably TRY < 1288215070 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Like anything else, you can only patent it if you a formal specification of it. < 1288215075 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*have < 1288215087 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My verb fell out. < 1288215097 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it brought me back an asterisk. < 1288215099 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good have. < 1288215656 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: hmm, that doesn't impress me... what's a wumpus? <-- did you seriously not know what a wumpus is? < 1288215701 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, next you will claim to not know what colossal cave adventure is! < 1288215711 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.6.11/20101012113537] < 1288215721 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed I don't < 1288215737 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's an adventure game, since the wumpus game is (right?) < 1288215752 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even though I have heard of the wumpus game, I have no idea what a wumpus is < 1288215815 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wumpus is the antagonist of the wumpus game. < 1288215840 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: play the wumpus game. < 1288215855 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1 and 2 are in response to the colossal cave adventure, line 3 verifying I don't know what a wumpus is) < 1288215948 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH GOD all the top google hits for online versions are graphical. < 1288215951 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PEASANTS. < 1288215960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Seems to me like YOU'RE the antagonist. The wumpus is just trying to live its life, and you're hunting it. < 1288215973 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's better: http://scv.bu.edu/cgi-bin/wcl < 1288215978 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: Like anything else, you can only patent it if you a formal specification of it. // remove the word "formal" or I'll remove your face. < 1288215993 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Indeed so. I see a humanties paper here somewhere. < 1288215999 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think YOU'RE by definition the protagonist, and it's always the OTHER thing that's the antagonist < 1288216014 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you're evil < 1288216108 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: read: http://www.atariarchives.org/bcc1/showpage.php?page=247 < 1288216167 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "you can only patent it if you a specification of it"? < 1288216277 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assume it's an adventure game, since the wumpus game is (right?) <-- uh... < 1288216292 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more a logic game < 1288216299 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one with quite a high chance of failure even with perfect play < 1288216316 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, bats < 1288216320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288216321 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, and colossal cave adventure was the first text adventure game. < 1288216323 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very first one < 1288216358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cpressey: Seems to me like YOU'RE the antagonist. The wumpus is just trying to live its life, and you're hunting it. <-- go play "be the wumpus" then < 1288216361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1288216425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, and pits < 1288216429 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, don't forget the pits < 1288216436 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288216443 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are considerably more fatal than the bats < 1288216452 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what the optimal HtW strategy is < 1288216464 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting question < 1288216486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I seem to remember that the b93 htw was quite easy, compared to the classical one < 1288216496 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably due to lack of being able to make anything complex in b93 < 1288216508 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the classical one's very simple too < 1288216528 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hm well the bsd one then < 1288216535 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that one I was talking about < 1288216540 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's relatively hard, but very simple < 1288216547 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I said easy < 1288216549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not simple < 1288216550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above < 1288216559 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the b93 one has unlimited arrows iirc < 1288216578 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that would help quite a lot < 1288216658 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So < 1288216678 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... I don't even know where to begin < 1288216724 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who don't believe in attributes-beginning-with-an-underscore in Python because "nothing is really private anyway". < 1288216780 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "script kiddie for life" comes to mind, I guess. < 1288216817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, from the "be the wumpus" website: "WARNING -- this game does contain small amounts of sounds of people speaking words which some people might consider profane. If you are apt to be offended by the numbers in a .wav file when run through a D/A converter, and then the analog signal amplified then run through a loudspeaker of some kind, well, you may have a problem with my numbers then, I suppose. Thin < 1288216817 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g is, it's your problem, not mine. You've been warned. And what sorts of things would you expect people trapped in a dark cave with a hungry wumpus to say?" < 1288216819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1288217734 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so you've read that article now, RIGHT? < 1288217794 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I have < 1288217850 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: GOOD ANSWER < 1288217869 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now you know what a Wumpus is! < 1288217905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, turns out it's COMPLETELY FICTIONAL! < 1288217916 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes quite so! < 1288217951 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, do you have any idea why man 3 pow has such a *huge* list of special casing the behaviour? < 1288217966 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: because floating-point is evil < 1288217978 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IEEE floating point inherently has quite a lot of special cases < 1288217979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes but pow() is a lot worse than, say, sqrt() or even log() < 1288217982 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pow isn't commutative < 1288217996 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to consider all the special cases for each arguments < 1288217999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinatorial explosion! < 1288218020 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not only fictional, but also kind of a side-effect of the design of the game! < 1288218020 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite < 1288218027 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, and even worse for my intended application < 1288218054 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you intending an application that cares about the corner cases of exponentiation? < 1288218072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, which would be a formally speced math.h so I can use that prove an app. However that involves proving that the different behaviour cases are pair-wise disjoint... < 1288218078 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be absurd for pow() < 1288218102 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"proof" and "floating point" in the same sentence < 1288218106 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lol", as they say < 1288218111 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it is possible actually. < 1288218128 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say it wasn't? < 1288218131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, look at frama-c + why + gappa < 1288218135 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was "lol". < 1288218139 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288218183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I do not intend to prove pow() but I intend to spec it's behaviour according to the C standard so I can use this as an "axiom" to prove the code I'm interested in proving < 1288218215 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with floating point, not even addition is commutative < 1288218235 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I should go home < 1288218238 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1288218254 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true it isn't indeed < 1288218363 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288218387 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288219258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, wasn't there a library for Coq that worked with FP? < 1288219895 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No se habla Coq. < 1288219928 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well, you can prove some FP things. < 1288219930 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nor Spanish, so that is probably ungrammatical) < 1288219963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1288220025 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1288220232 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288220353 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to prove rewriting things -- using a rewrite system to do it :) < 1288221435 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about making a compiler for sed < 1288221504 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have any problems that are interesting enough to allow optimizations to be useful, while at the same time being simple enough that anyone can be bothered solving it in sed < 1288221549 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*but I don't < 1288221644 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288221674 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288222008 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288222072 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit my ignore didn't carry over the upgrade < 1288222073 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: catseye told me to tell you: NetBSD takes about 2 hour to build on this machine. haven't installed it yet. < 1288222099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:21:21 "As for 12GB of RAM? “Because I can” is one reason" ... lol !!! < 1288222099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:22:10 ironic that he's blogging about memory errors < 1288222101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ECC it's unlikely < 1288222107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bsmntbombdood has 12GiB :p < 1288222152 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that quote looked fucked up, was it from clog messing it up? < 1288222157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288222171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rather from tunes.org not sending character encoding headers < 1288222183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i suppose irc has no real encoding :) < 1288222393 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, "Code Complete" is the name of that book. And he stole the icon *from* it, not vice-versa or anything. < 1288222441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: yes, indeed. < 1288222450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can say this without even having seen the other qusetion because it's so obvious what you're referring to :) < 1288222459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: he stole it with PERMISSION, though! < 1288222460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: anyway-- < 1288222469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: i had an insane dream and you were the central character! < 1288222474 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you read the logs you'll discover... the List. < 1288222478 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Cool! < 1288222486 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1288222489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: well you weren't being a very good cpressey. < 1288222492 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1288222501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Choose my language: Haskell, Factor, or Smalltalk < 1288222509 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Fuxi! < 1288222533 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.fuxi.org/EN/index.htm < 1288222570 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is using Flash on the front page supposed to make me like it? < 1288222574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I mean, you had made catseye.tc show a page about how you and your wife were going to commit suicide on the [day] with the help of some, uhh, guy, and that guy was also one of the leaders of uh something you were trying to protest by doing this. I went "NOOOOOO" and the like on IRC and since this is a dream apparently IRC is in-person and you decided that this was the perfect time to have us meet your wife, who is a mermaid except more < 1288222574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a dolphin-mermaid and also she's a (demi-?)god and this is why we'd never met her before. < 1288222581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Then the whole thing turned into a parody of Scooby Doo. < 1288222591 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those in the market for languages are not mainstream audiences < 1288222618 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Fuxi website: Please don't use Flash for navigation < 1288222622 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes! That is my real life in a nutshell. < 1288222633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: I thought so. So when are you going to kill yourself? < 1288222651 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have it written down somewhere < 1288222660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: On your PALM < 1288222664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PC < 1288222682 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it takes a conventional syntactic system, that makes the programmers with some experiences of C++, JAVA, use the language without any training;" < 1288222686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_any_? < 1288222709 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It better not have C++ and Java as subsets < 1288222720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Sgeo is going to decide that fuxi has interesting aspects now. < 1288222737 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, um, my first impression so far is negative < 1288222749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That is irrelevant. < 1288222749 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You should try reading the spec. It's in Chinese. < 1288222752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Fuxi < 1288222758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Fucksy < 1288222782 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: But, uh, what am I choosing your language for? < 1288222782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04:29 * catseye_ considers starting out with "#include "... < 1288222796 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I assume there's an English translation? < 1288222805 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, to be my returning love affair < 1288222808 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1288222814 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Of the spec? Not that I've found < 1288222819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: one of those languages is going to have a baby one day < 1288222819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currently thinking quite a bit about Haskell < 1288222822 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll have to pay child support < 1288222840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/*
< 1288222844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...
*/ < 1288222845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might work < 1288222846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1288222852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might take some more element coercion < 1288222877 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it collects active, remote, mobile and persistent objects in a transparent way, through some orthogonal styles;" < 1288222887 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounded good right up to "orthogonal" < 1288222900 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, actually, it makes sense < 1288222902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1288222902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1288222985 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uhhhh.... < 1288222995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variables store both a value and a pointer? < 1288222996 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1288223025 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I feel bad for throwing that in your path, Sgeo < 1288223029 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it can't do both < 1288223033 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've barely looked at it myself < 1288223038 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just read the damn spec < 1288223061 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it can't do both, that's ok. Except the explanation is a bit WTFy < 1288223105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, they don't do both. Unless test() is some quantum weirdness < 1288223131 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep seeing bad thing, then realizing that it's not actually that bad < 1288223216 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoever wrote this needs to be hit on the head for making the language look more incomprehensible than it actually is < 1288223234 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288223239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But expressions in Fuxi can terminate naturally, without any delimiters." < 1288223256 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd headdesk, but I'm sure an explanation will be forthcoming eventually < 1288223278 0 :pikhq_!~pikhq@75-173-197-207.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288223301 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, if an operator takes two arguments, and functions, etc etc., what do you need statement delimeters for < 1288223307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi pikhq < 1288223308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is where pikhq_ hits me < 1288223317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: rebol does that < 1288223318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also logo < 1288223319 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION punches Sgeo < 1288223323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288223327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq is just punching you because he hates you < 1288223340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: We should try and devise a language so horrible that Sgeo will still like it. < 1288223361 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuxi keeps being not as horrible as I imagine < 1288223370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just needs decent documentation < 1288223404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: See? < 1288223410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Literally impossible. < 1288223411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Falcon. < 1288223416 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, YOU need to learn Chinese. < 1288223431 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your search - Fuxi esolang - did not match any documents. " < 1288223433 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288223434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, got a link? < 1288223437 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuxi.org < 1288223456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1288223463 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just two flash animations < 1288223466 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is that site < 1288223468 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288223470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuxi {} blocks are fucked up < 1288223476 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: click "English" < 1288223486 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, I did. Just two flash ones again < 1288223522 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{}, which is syntactic sugar for a bunch of &&, should absolutely NOT be described as similar to blocks in C/C++ < 1288223525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, want some possible ideas for horrible languages? < 1288223531 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the one on the right is a menu < 1288223538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, C++ will provide plenty. < 1288223541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well I don't have flash < 1288223543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hah < 1288223543 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1288223545 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.fuxi.org/EN/whitepaper.htm < 1288223550 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'll get ya started < 1288223560 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot forgive the documentation now < 1288223561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my first idea was "Malbolge2EE" < 1288223577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to uninstall my web browser and then act like people should have to provide me content without having one. < 1288223581 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... I kind of see the rationale < 1288223590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assignments are boolean expressions < 1288223600 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, it uses god damn double width font < 1288223602 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unreadable < 1288223605 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one fails, the block returns false... that still kind of is a sucky way to deal with errors < 1288223606 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You may prefer http://www.fuxi.org/ZH/whitepaper.htm < 1288223618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can't read that < 1288223620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal REALLY hates double width fonts. < 1288223624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or: Just loves whining. < 1288223635 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I find it VERY hard to read < 1288223640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No you don't. < 1288223661 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as hard as Han characters, I imagine < 1288223661 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I do < 1288223662 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288223665 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, well duh < 1288223672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, you don't. < 1288223673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......I hate Fuxi < 1288223676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless your brain is completely broken. < 1288223680 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let{ } in (10) < 1288223681 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I worked around it. firebug is an awesome extension < 1288223688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add lang="en" to the body element < 1288223690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HardER, yes. VERY HARD, no. < 1288223699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...what's wrong with that? < 1288223700 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes firefox switch over to proper rendering of English < 1288223700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, assignments INSIDE the block aren't scoped to stay in the block. To do that, you use a let statement that contains the block < 1288223712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg a let statement how awful < 1288223712 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Wow. < 1288223720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :providing an alternative to imperative assignment < 1288223729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's not *that* bad, afaict < 1288223734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since assignment is an imperative thing < 1288223739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than python >:) < 1288223765 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's mainly the Hey What It's All In Chinese thing. < 1288223770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm ok with imperative assignment. I'm not ok with imperative assignments having global scope, while telling people that the language is similar enough to C++ and Java < 1288223773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Oh no, the language is terrible. < 1288223776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: The assignment isn't. < 1288223781 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh < 1288223783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is just excellent at hating the opposite things that he should. < 1288223787 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey, the grammar in that link is.... really interesting < 1288223800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "has"/"had"/"have" -- you, in all the wrong situations < 1288223821 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes but that one I don't notice so much :P < 1288223854 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the impression "let statement that contains the block" meant the block was contained in one of the *bindings* of the let statement, or something. < 1288223861 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is clearly crazy. < 1288223866 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, it's been a long day. < 1288223878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: Nope, just that a variable assignment persists beyond a block, and if you want to scope it to a block, you have to use let. < 1288223883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, really, isn't *that* horrible. < 1288223888 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'" Fuxi does not provide constructs for looping, like for-statement or while-statement." < 1288223896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Neither does Haskell. < 1288223898 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I curse Fuxi for false advertising again? < 1288223905 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not compared to say Python, which does that, except without the benefit of a "let" to reign it in < 1288223908 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Haskell does not claim to be easy for Java and C++ programmers < 1288223917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If they provide an equivalent construct in the library, that does not invalidate their statement. < 1288223956 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, tail recursion isn't hard to learn for an imperative programmer < 1288223958 0 :cpressey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you fall in love with Haskell, I'll be slightly less creeped out than if you fall in love with Factor or Smalltalk. < 1288223981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: As long as he doesn't make out with it in here. < 1288223985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a room, you two. < 1288223993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. Yes it is. < 1288223993 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1) it takes a conventional syntactic system, that makes the programmers with some experiences of C++, JAVA, use the language without any training;"