< 1288396843 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> Vorpal: just calls the makefile in the parent directory < 1288396853 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependency injected inversion-of-control visitor pattern < 1288396881 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> $F00, 0xF00, or F00h? I just wanna spark a religious war, is that so wrong? < 1288396895 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ for 6502. h suffix should die. < 1288396925 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note to self: Do not aneurism early while reading this text < 1288396926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, the programmer in the examples above may have written code to check for correctness on the client's side (that is, the user's browser)." < 1288396934 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> anyway but $f00 is so pretty and nice, is it not fizzie? < 1288396945 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not fizzie. Also, I didn't realize you could use it on x86 anywhere. < 1288397006 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author proceeds to explain why it's a crap idea in the next paragraph < 1288397025 0 :nooga!~nooga@77-45-52-193.sta.asta-net.com.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1288397254 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: die die die! < 1288397254 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Unknown command. Type '|help' for help. < 1288397261 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288397306 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288397362 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288397394 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288397890 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288397951 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, I have xfce4 with actual "window management" featurez now < 1288397956 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it does the virtual desktops thing < 1288397965 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is pretty sweet < 1288397975 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode test time! < 1288398046 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no?ne is there. < 1288398050 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did that look right? < 1288398058 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cos it don't to me. < 1288398149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It is not right. It has a question mark in there. < 1288398221 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks zzo38. I think I see what I need to fix. < 1288398234 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288398278 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One sec... < 1288398280 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1288398338 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288398367 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, coördination. Hey, that looks right to me. < 1288398376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1288398392 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't work when I tried it in the bash command line, but, well, ok. I don't need it there yet! < 1288398607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why biennale.py doesn't del the variable names and function names it uses
< 1288398619 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The scite distribution is a semi-zipbomb. It creates two versionless directories. < 1288398664 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know what to do if xrandr says "no protocol specified can't open display :0.0" and it can't open display 1 or 2 or anything either? < 1288398665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...? < 1288398676 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely there's gotta be a way to figure out what display is displaying? < 1288398678 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Python virus < 1288398689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why would it del anything? < 1288398712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To prevent accidentally interfering with the host program < 1288398733 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288398796 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: check /tmp for stale named sockets? this is largely a guess < 1288398832 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the file manager kind of sucks a little bit in that it doesn't always understand what a "directory" is < 1288398852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how doesn't it? < 1288398886 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: figured it out. can't run it as su. < 1288398897 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dunno why, but de-suing worked) < 1288398902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Viruses cannot infect hardware. True. " < 1288398903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1288398919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes you can, no it's not particularly relevant, the end < 1288398919 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does something like flashable CMOS count as? < 1288398926 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i double-click on 'build', all good, it cd's there; i double-click on another directory, nothing. then 'build' doesn't let itself be changed into either. i either triggered a bug, or i have something messed up. < 1288398937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software, or firmware, i guess < 1288398937 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1288398953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that's... uh... that should work. < 1288398958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can click directories forever here. < 1288398981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can also click the buttons at the top to navigate through the path i'm in, and go to the *directories* inside :P < 1288399016 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do your dirs always have folder icons? some of mine have file icons. < 1288399022 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "piece of paper" icons < 1288399025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: always folders here. screenshot please? < 1288399029 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one min < 1288399029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are they special directories in any way? < 1288399034 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351685.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288399035 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1288399042 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and it is thunar, yes? < 1288399045 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, i hope this supports screenshots < 1288399050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: xfce doesn't, I use scrot < 1288399058 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thunar 1.0.1 < 1288399063 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1288399066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: $ sleep 2; scrot -bs foo.png < 1288399073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: enter, move to the window you want, wait two seconds, click it < 1288399076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila, screenshot of window < 1288399085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Thunar 1.0.2, but Thunar definitely isn't that buggy :) < 1288399092 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1288399112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: pmake is similar to bsdmake right? < 1288399118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, pmake = netbsd make < 1288399118 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing scrot < 1288399120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, perfect :) < 1288399124 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pmake = bsd make, yes < 1288399133 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the FAKE PMAKE project < 1288399151 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was some dude implementing make in perl for NO REASON < 1288399162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288399176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Performs the same function as make(1) but is written entirely in perl. A subset of GNU make extensions is supported. For details see Make for the underlying perl module." < 1288399178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1288399194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how he doesn't even bother innovating, everyone else ever realised how bad makefiles are for building software projects < 1288399205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh wow, this almost works with pmake: < 1288399205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root=$(dirname $(lastword $(MAKEFILE_LIST)))/.. < 1288399205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(root)/include.make < 1288399209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288399211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shell dirname < 1288399225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it should work entirely. maybe < 1288399228 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :innovating requires creativity. implementing just requires following instructions. < 1288399236 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are following instructions SO HARD right now < 1288399312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Many developers think that Python will be the language of the future. It is multiplatform, but not easy to write." < 1288399320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what language they think is easier to write < 1288399353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course adding a piece of new code to a software might always damage it, but this is not its main purpose. Additionally, Python is only useful on servers, which are usually run by professionals who know how to trace and treat a virus." < 1288399357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these people are retards < 1288399364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i've never used a gui python application < 1288399364 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1288399370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"That means 'biennale.py' would never infect personal/ private/ home computers? < 1288399371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0100101110101101.ORG: Probably not, at least not this version. Maybe in future when the language will be also used on PCs, there might be a danger." < 1288399372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1288399479 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288399644 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288399653 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO HARD, in fact, that the machine lost power < 1288399987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you have any make-fu :( < 1288400000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also you said the h prefix should die? < 1288400016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befos/src/boot/beboot.s < 1288400018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see h at the end! < 1288400025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ok so i wanted to steal your bootloader code) < 1288400090 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was translated from TASM < 1288400094 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which only does h iirc < 1288400099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1288400105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also, yes $ does work in nasm at least < 1288400108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0x is so ugly < 1288400109 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, not a practice i want to continue < 1288400111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xabc vs $abc < 1288400116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter is much nicer looking < 1288400123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a better cue for the eyes < 1288400131 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of its 6502homageness < 1288400198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: still though, urgh, please tell me you can make my makefile system work < 1288400213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which magic < 1288400239 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288400241 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't < 1288400246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *cry* < 1288400261 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make is a no < 1288400289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, but... eh < 1288400300 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SciTEGTK.cxx:656: error: 'MAX_PATH' was not declared in this scope < 1288400301 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that < 1288400327 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("because people cannot write software" is technically correct but will not count towards your total) < 1288400429 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root := $(dir $(lastword $(MAKEFILE_LIST)))/.. < 1288400431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly better < 1288400490 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. MAX_PATH is a WindwOS thing. < 1288400610 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See, I said I would) < 1288400628 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PATH_MAX is the equivalent, but don't use it. < 1288400667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Some OSes don't have a maximum path length, and so either don't define PATH_MAX or define it arbitrarily) < 1288400682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max Path. He's on the case. He's one dangerously confused sumbitch. And he is ON the case, y'hear? < 1288400791 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CXXFLAGS:=$(CXXFLAGS) -DMAX_PATH=260 < 1288400796 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll learn 'em < 1288400844 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will probably give me all the limitations of WindwOS in this regard. nice < 1288400857 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288400896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, now it's stuck on '_environ' < 1288400960 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i need to define 'unix', nice < 1288400966 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone tell me this? < 1288400989 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. no one told me this < 1288401061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot//../common.make:4: warning: overriding commands for target `/home/elliott/code/tempo/build' < 1288401061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common.make:4: warning: ignoring old commands for target `/home/elliott/code/tempo/build' < 1288401063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god < 1288401081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look better when I'm drunk < 1288401113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1288401133 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build damn you build < 1288401159 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! i did write a boot block for that, didn't i < 1288401169 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does almost nothing except boot, iirc < 1288401191 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: cannot find -ldl < 1288401197 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION blinks
< 1288401402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: mine's going to do nothing except boot :P < 1288401452 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it built! < 1288401460 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what did you decide to write it in? < 1288401469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: nasm, how boring is that? < 1288401487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm is an exciting mystery like rainbows and giraffes < 1288401492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but it's ok, i'm stuffing all my weirdness into makefiles < 1288401496 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course... electricity < 1288401552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: for example < 1288401553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build := $(abspath $(root)/build) < 1288401554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty_string := < 1288401554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space := $(empty_string) # < 1288401554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build_escaped := $(subst $(space),\ ,$(build)) < 1288401554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(build_escaped): < 1288401555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mkdir $(build_escaped) < 1288401566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "you are not expected to understand this" < 1288401580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: all that lets you have spaces in the build path :) < 1288401645 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288401645 0 :nooga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288401799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: this is worse than recursive make < 1288401804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but damn, it's GNU. < 1288401816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the most gnu thing i've ever written < 1288401938 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see how you are using the adjective gnu there it is very apropos < 1288401992 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://imgur.com/2OtrI < 1288402010 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my launch panel icons are... mostly missing, actually < 1288402026 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i shall try rebuilding it or somehting < 1288402065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hey i should have $(AS) be a var so people can set it to yasm :D < 1288402069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASFLAGS < 1288402073 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup, file manager has a one-directory-change limit. after that, NO MORE CD FOR YOU! < 1288402079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you're missing icons for one < 1288402083 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that will be useful < 1288402088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also, gtk thjemes < 1288402089 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, yes i am < 1288402091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*themes < 1288402098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: try going into appearances and setting it to something that isn't Raleigh :P < 1288402099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The solution, oddly enough, is to artificially pad the encryption process with unnecessary computation so that short computations complete as slowly as long ones. < 1288402100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1288402101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance GREY MIST < 1288402102 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand why < 1288402105 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes sense < 1288402111 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it still gives me a headache < 1288402126 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORI=1TO1000:NEXT gives you a headache? < 1288402140 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(today is BASIC day) < 1288402184 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think I'd think of these things on my own < 1288402206 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288402226 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "going into appearances"? < 1288402231 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Raleigh"? < 1288402242 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288402245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: xfce menu < 1288402245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :settings < 1288402247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appearances < 1288402252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*appearance < 1288402258 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't got < 1288402265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok, let me confirm < 1288402267 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yowza! < 1288402269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: what package did you install for xfce < 1288402292 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ENOUGH OF THEM, apparently < 1288402345 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./xfce4-desktop/work ./xfce4-exo/work ./xfce4-panel/work ./xfce4-session/work ./xfce4-terminal/work < 1288402351 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the xfwm4 < 1288402369 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... will install everything else that says 'xfce4' on it < 1288402372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: is there just an xfce4 package? < 1288402396 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/catseye/pkgsrc/x11/xfce4-gtk2-engine good bet < 1288402400 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no. no there isn't. < 1288402455 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there's also an xfce4-settings package < 1288402468 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STRANGE how these are not DEPENDENCIES> < 1288402480 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> hi i like arrows >>> < 1288402576 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, how do you add items to the menu? Wait, I bet that's part of the system I don't have installed yet, < 1288402579 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so n/m < 1288402607 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1288402641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but yeah just install everything :P < 1288402697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define make_directory < 1288402697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @echo "MKDIR\t"$(subst $(space),\ ,$@) < 1288402697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @mkdir $(subst $(space),\ ,$@) < 1288402697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endef < 1288402701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just great < 1288402707 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are sick < 1288402712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i know right? < 1288402804 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok trying this out now < 1288402805 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288402905 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288402914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: common.make http://sprunge.us/ACDb < 1288402915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: start of boot/Makefile http://sprunge.us/VEFZ < 1288402917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: behold the insanity! < 1288402986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: alas, it does not yet handle tabs in the BUILD directory! i shall fix. < 1288402992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu make *really* needs user-defined macros. < 1288403026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT < 1288403032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I COULD RUN THE MAKEFILES THROUGH CPP OMG < 1288403071 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoi < 1288403085 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288403089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i am so going to do that < 1288403102 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm kerr-AZY < 1288403106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm actually not going to.) < 1288403113 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAR < 1288403123 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfce4 is in "meta-pkg" < 1288403130 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*meta-pkgs < 1288403144 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do it it will be a blast < 1288403148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no :P < 1288403151 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... ansi colors < 1288403153 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere < 1288403155 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*colours < 1288403206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ansi colours, maybe! < 1288403211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i might bold all the command names or something :) < 1288403234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1288403236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION amazing idea
< 1288403264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: $(build)/boot/bootsector: prog = $(AS) ; $(generic) < 1288403267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic would then do like < 1288403276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(prog) $($(prog)FLAGS) $< -o $@ < 1288403278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDdddddddd < 1288403309 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this i don't even < 1288403326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you can override variables for a rule's body in the dependencies < 1288403330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then ; just acts like newline-tab < 1288403342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generic would be a variable defined with the define ... endef syntax < 1288403360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pmake? < 1288403367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hell no, gnu make < 1288403373 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1288403373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: none of the other makes are exciting enough to let this work < 1288403375 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is gnu make? < 1288403378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288403425 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k-RRRRAAAZy < 1288403518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: on the upside, this build system will scale to the hideously complex Tempo 2024, when it's the most popular OS on the planet :P < 1288403639 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll be an old man then < 1288403643 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running Falcon on your OS < 1288403662 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disturbing image, that < 1288403680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh sweet, i have to escape it in EVERY SINGLE RULE < 1288403683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this < 1288403684 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, huh. that's ony 14 years away. i won't be THAT old. < 1288403687 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*only < 1288403692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you are already THAT old. < 1288403692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to email Fidelity < 1288403752 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course 2024 could be just the version number, not the year < 1288403915 0 :storkbot!~storkbot@adsl-99-94-155-150.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288404105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: woo, my build system is blowing up! < 1288404170 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo < 1288404174 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally unexpected, that < 1288404292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(eval include $(build)/config.make) < 1288404296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: this could not get any more hilarious < 1288404317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww not quite < 1288404327 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288404327 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1288404353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wut < 1288404361 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288404431 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval include NO < 1288404439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: doesn't actually help, as it turns out :) < 1288404447 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD < 1288404457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: omg i can use $(shell) without a variable < 1288404459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOTAL POWER < 1288404475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(shell $(MAKE) -f $(root)/common.make $(build)/config.make) < 1288404484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT SO NEARLY ALMOST WORKS OMG < 1288404491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a bad person < 1288404494 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is certainly an interesting path you've gone down in your BOOT LOADER PROJECT < 1288404500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *OS PROJECT < 1288404515 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOOTOS - It boots! < 1288404527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: isn't it, like, a rule that OSes have to have hideously complex build systems? < 1288404534 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True! < 1288404542 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :complex *and* objectionabl < 1288404544 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1288404629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(shell echo make -w -f $(root)/common.make $(build)/config.make >foo) < 1288404630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(shell sh foo) < 1288404630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(shell rm foo) < 1288404631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALMOST WORKS < 1288404657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate myself for existing < 1288404679 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should take out all the 'rules' stuff and just use this language < 1288404687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288404693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i should scrap all of this and just use recursive make, shouldn't i? < 1288404700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*should just *and use < 1288404721 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you doing this to try to avoid recursion? < 1288404728 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this badness < 1288404733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well, i'm doing it as part of something that's like 500x better than recursion < 1288404739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, with recursion, it would be a relatively simple task, yes. < 1288404741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "relatively" < 1288404744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually all that less, but < 1288404753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: /home/elliott/code/tempo/common.make:32: pipe: Too many open files < 1288404754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/code/tempo/common.make:36: /home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make: No such file or directory < 1288404754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: /home/elliott/code/tempo/common.make:32: pipe: Too many open files < 1288404754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** No rule to make target ``/home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make'', needed by `/home/elliott/code/tempo/build'. Stop. < 1288404803 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the first time i've seen make complain about THAT < 1288404812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto, man. ditto. < 1288404833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my dear god it almost works < 1288404910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common.make:43: /home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make: No such file or directory < 1288404910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MKDIR /home/elliott/code/tempo/build < 1288404910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/elliott/code/tempo/boot//../common.make:43: /home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make: No such file or directory < 1288404910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFIG Copying default configuration. make: `/home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make' is up to date. < 1288404910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/sh: Syntax error: EOF in backquote substitution < 1288404912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [/home/elliott/code/tempo/build/config.make] Error 2 < 1288404914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: could it get any better? < 1288404928 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad is claiming that some of the information I received in the CPR class is dangerously wrong < 1288404941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your dad claims an awful lot of things. < 1288404946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An *awful* lot. < 1288404948 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my dad _is_ a doctor < 1288404964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, sure... < 1288404987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear god wtf is up with my build system < 1288405031 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so < 1288405108 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i not install ghc yet? oh right, i think i tried building it from source, where it needs to be bootstrapped < 1288405120 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pkgsrc looks like it's installing ok so far < 1288405126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifeq ($(shell test -e $(build)/config.make; echo $$?),0) < 1288405141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if you install pkgsrc ghc, I'll walk you through building the latest ghc. < 1288405149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It's alright, really, it just takes a little while. < 1288405163 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right i'm sure i remember all this from before as if in a dream < 1288405184 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288405186 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it bombs out here < 1288405188 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/ar: Control/Concurrent_stub.o: No such file or directory < 1288405206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: install the binary package < 1288405213 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i will try! < 1288405214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you won't be using this, anyway, it's just to compile the new one < 1288405224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1288405227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: GNU MAKE HAS MACROS < 1288405228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1288405230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOOOOOO < 1288405237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM THE WORST KIND OF PERSON < 1288405335 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't got one < 1288405340 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YES YOU ARE < 1288405349 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they srsly have no bin pkg for ghc for 5.0.2 < 1288405358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok. that's ok. < 1288405364 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying slightly older set of pkgs < 1288405366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: because we can get our own < 1288405380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait maybe not < 1288405391 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they got a slightly older pkg < 1288405397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah install that < 1288405400 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Q2 instead of Q3) < 1288405411 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits forever
< 1288405412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://sprunge.us/BDgW < 1288405414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: look at this < 1288405417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: look at the fucking amazing < 1288405454 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :targets with embedded newlines < 1288405472 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in fact, just a newline < 1288405480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's... yeah... i think i might use autotools < 1288405505 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1288405595 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh when autotools looks attractive, you KNOW you're in a fine position < 1288405668 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, apparently, the disagreement is because he's not a part of the general public < 1288405675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ??? < 1288405679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yup < 1288405697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can understand how the rules might be different for trained laypersons and medical responders < 1288405700 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1288405714 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general public have a different kind of CPR that needs to be performed on them < 1288405719 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, autotools does beat most of the other complicated build systems out there, primarily due to having better-understood limitations than others. < 1288405734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you want to see my common.make? you will like it < 1288405744 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The general public finds it tricky to find a pulse, and might mistake non-pulse for pulse < 1288405753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/ZbMN < 1288405759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is the most horrible thing I have ever written in any language. < 1288405761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The taught CPR procedures recently changed due to new evidence of the efficacy of various methods. < 1288405761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FEAST YOUR EYES < 1288405770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FEAST THEM < 1288405792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, people find it hard to find a pulse? WTF. Takes all of an instant to find it on the wrist. < 1288405802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, we were taught that rescue breaths are good if you're comfortable/have a face mask, but compressions are the priority < 1288405803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FEEEEEAST < 1288405829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's ok to do compressions without the rescue breaths < 1288405838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. That's a very recent change in procedure. < 1288405843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like, "few months ago". < 1288405848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And an example directory Makefile using this system: http://sprunge.us/YIYA < 1288405864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it "system"; more like "abomination". < 1288405874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Isn't GNU Make revolting? < 1288405889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes, but not nearly as revolting as what I did to it without its consent. < 1288405903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm hoping to make the bootsector rule look like this: < 1288405917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$(build)/boot/bootsector: compiler=AS ; $(generic) < 1288405920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: With EVILNESS. < 1288405923 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi, version 6.8.3: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help < 1288405925 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00tness < 1288405929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: This will involve generic doing $($(compiler)). < 1288405933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Okay, I'll guide you through. < 1288405943 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i need to get food first < 1288405947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: alright < 1288405949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1288405950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: get lots of it < 1288405954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a thermos flask of coffee < 1288405956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of it < 1288405957 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Believe me, you want implicit rules. You wants it. < 1288405959 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also have like a dozen other things going on < 1288405960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tea < 1288405964 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1288405966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for a *bootsector*? no :P < 1288405970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but, yeah, I might < 1288405974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in that case, it'll look like < 1288406003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: $(build)/%.o: %.s $(dir $*) compiler=AS ; $(generic) < 1288406008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Or something. You see, I am *evil*. < 1288406028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: A lot of people *really* discount how nice implicit rules make make. < 1288406040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Problems I'm trying to solve right now: With that $(build)/config.make rule, currently you get an "omg not found" error before it notices the rule and fixes it; I'd like to hide this. Also: "make build/boot/bootsector" should work rather than having to type out the full path. < 1288406056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Also: Fix general lack of soul due to programming this piece of shit. < 1288406057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Fun fact: the following is an entirely valid makefile for building a program with files foo.c, bar.c, and baz.c: foo: bar.c baz.c < 1288406061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1288406065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is not nearly sufficient for my purposes :P < 1288406081 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, well. < 1288406085 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I need per-directory makefiles because of the relative complexity of building some of my components -- this is an *operating system* -- but I don't really want to use recursive make. < 1288406098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I'd like it to automatically build in source-tree/build, but have that be configurable. < 1288406110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And I'd like to have a build-directory/config.make file with compiler settings, etc. < 1288406126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: On the other hand... right now, recursive make is looking appealing as *fuck*. < 1288406128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not only do you not want to use recursive make, you absolutely *should not* unless there are absolutely no cross-directory dependencies. < 1288406150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Cross-directory dependencies would simply be "directory Y can only be built after everything in directory X is done". < 1288406161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. Recursive make is a tempting seductress, but she will do nasty things to your unmentionables. < 1288406183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I've already raped the slightly-demented kitten that is GNU Make to death. I think I deserve the torture. < 1288406194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It absolutely *breaks* dependency handling. < 1288406197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I mean come on, I've defined a string escape function just so you can have spaces in your build directory. < 1288406205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And, uh, dude: < 1288406206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root := $(dir $(lastword $(MAKEFILE_LIST)))/.. < 1288406206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(root)/common.make < 1288406209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... dude. < 1288406216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Down that road lies only being able to do builds from a clean source dir. < 1288406224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There is no unclean source dir. < 1288406228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build directory. < 1288406252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You will get raped. < 1288406264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The alternative right now is... autotools. < 1288406274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: This is like relying on the specific behavior of a specific buffer overflow for a program. It. Will. Break. < 1288406306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And what's more, you lose a lot of parallelism. Because no one make process has a complete view of the dependency graph. < 1288406324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, firstly, shut up, secondly, as I said, there can be no inter-directory parallelism *anyway(. < 1288406329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thirdly, *the alternative is this monstrosity*. < 1288406351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Recursive make *is* a monstrosity. < 1288406374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But a monstrosity that doesn't drive me insane to code it. Stop being a zealot. < 1288406375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288406379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Most of the problems with make-based build systems come about because of recursive make. < 1288406380 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Honest. < 1288406384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I KNOW < 1288406388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And this is not a conventional build. < 1288406397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Which only makes it worse. < 1288406410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Has anyone ever told you how you don't shut up when you're being a zealot? < 1288406431 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when I KNOW THE REASONS NOT TO USE RECURSIVE MAKE IN EXCRUCIATING DETAIL >_< < 1288406446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, fine. Build it your way. I refuse to have to package any of it. < 1288406466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think you'll find you use software compiled with recursive make. < 1288406498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you'll find that I use a lot of shitty software. < 1288406517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I suppose you refused to use codu.org when it was omg served with the wrong headers too. < 1288406541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, I just didn't stop hounding Gregor about it sucking. < 1288406545 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288406569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Okay, *you* implement my build system. < 1288406597 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Details about the program? < 1288406619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's an operating system. It *will* involve custom rules, it *will* involve calling ld manually. < 1288406632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It *will* have subdirectories with files that need to be built differently. < 1288406634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh, an OS? So each directory would be a seperate program? < 1288406637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1288406640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each directory is another component. < 1288406641 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1288406645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Component. < 1288406645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. bootloader, kernel, etc. < 1288406657 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: HAVE YOU VALIDATED EVERY FILE ON CODU.ORG < 1288406664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It must be built in either SRC_ROOT/build or a user-specified build directory. The structure inside must mirror the outside directory structure. < 1288406673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't really have dependencies on each other except for maybe depending on the entire results of the directory... < 1288406677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "make build_dir/foo" must work. "make" must work. Preferably, "make some_dir.all" should work. < 1288406686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "make clean" should get rid of build_dir. < 1288406696 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, what you're saying is that recursive make is the correct answer. < 1288406700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Preferably, there will be some included makefile you could edit to set CC, AS, etc. < 1288406703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: THANK YOU < 1288406708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is one of, like, 10 cases that recursive make is justified. < 1288406709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already knew that :P < 1288406723 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, I haven't validated a single one. < 1288406726 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :P < 1288406736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So for all you know it's 100% pure rubbish! < 1288406750 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288406759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, yeah, who cares about that Gregor Richards guy anyways? < 1288406773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WORLD CARES, PIKHQ < 1288406775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE WORLD CARES < 1288406788 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good thing I put it into an asylum, then. < 1288406789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY WORLD IS EMANCIPATED FROM DUFFRIT HATS < 1288406816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gahahaha I just realised this has similar problems < 1288406836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have you considered replacing Make? < 1288406840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: many times < 1288406843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feeds into NIH some more
< 1288406847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root := $(abspath $(dir $(lastword $(MAKEFILE_LIST)))/..) < 1288406847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :build := $(root)/build < 1288406847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include $(build)/config.make < 1288406848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOO < 1288406851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do not want that in every file. < 1288406907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: arithmetic in gnu make: http://www.cmcrossroads.com/ask-mr-make/6504-learning-gnu-make-functions-with-arithmetic < 1288406937 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/websplat/imgs/favicongoomba.php?domain=mozilla.org&frame=s6r.png < 1288406946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: xD < 1288406986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: :( gnu.org's is too hard to make out < 1288407001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am so tempted just to make these into shell scripts. < 1288407058 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288407231 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gregor: that is best < 1288407360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like a make which just implements the common functionality of gnu make and bsd make < 1288407364 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1288407384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lcdmake < 1288407423 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like a make which handles spaces in file names. < 1288407435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IT DOES < 1288407437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you just have to escape them < 1288407440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo\ bar\ baz: < 1288407446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, in there, $@ will be the unescaped version < 1288407449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because make just likes fucking with you < 1288407450 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Doesn't work for implicit rules. < 1288407451 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mashable.com/2010/10/29/microsoft-silverlgiht-html/ < 1288407454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahahahaha < 1288407460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahahahaaaaa < 1288407475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, make sucks ass. < 1288407489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so have you written my build system yet < 1288407496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1288407557 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< pikhq> elliott: Details about the program? < 1288407563 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't listen to him it's a boot block < 1288407580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: not even that yet < 1288407583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, uh < 1288407585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this < 1288407588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot: hlt; jmp boot < 1288407589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1288407590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288407602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok i have a wise observation < 1288407610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: FUCK. THE LIVING FUCK. OUT OF OUT-OF-TREE-BUILDS. < 1288407614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AND FUCK CONFIGURATION FILES. < 1288407620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm kicking it OLDSCHOOL, FUCK! < 1288407632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh and FUCK having $(AS) and shit, you use nasm or you go to hell < 1288407633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, FUCK ANCIENT BUILD SYSTEMS. < 1288407634 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo 'nasm boot.s -o boot' > make.sh && chmod 755 make.sh < 1288407636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yasm? you're a fucking kiddo < 1288407638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nasm is BSD-licensed now < 1288407640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get with the program < 1288407641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no yasm support < 1288407646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm hardcoding nasm in my makefiles < 1288407649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm just that hardcore, so fuck you < 1288407667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: see, I've become sane again < 1288407668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc --make the_whole_program.c < 1288407675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a healthy hate for your users is a good thing < 1288407675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY CAN'T WE HAVE NICE THINGS < 1288407677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so have you got foods < 1288407717 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1288407722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: are you READY FOR THE MAGIC < 1288407724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can has Pink Floyd discography.
< 1288407726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is it right to append ".o" to the filename of things that are actually just raw machine code? < 1288407727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For great justice. < 1288407731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DECIDE < 1288407743 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'd go with .bin < 1288407751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why not just "" < 1288407753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootsector: bootsector.s < 1288407754 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288407758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: .o suggests it's valid linker input. < 1288407763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "" works too. < 1288407801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rocks the recursive make
< 1288407827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably have all targets in my directory makefiles shouldn't i < 1288407828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1288407830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be arsed < 1288407858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAKE := $(MAKE) --no-print-directory < 1288407860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it irritates me! < 1288407880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait needs to be MAKEFLAGS += < 1288407982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what's the size of a proper floppy image again? it's the formatted size, right? < 1288407997 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an awesome security feature, Opera < 1288408002 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gives Opera the middle finger
< 1288408024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 1440 kibibytes. < 1288408032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288408045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: thing dd needs to do: not truncate a file after you write to it < 1288408045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1288408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd if=/dev/zero of=$@ bs=1k count=1440 < 1288408051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd if=boot/bootsector of=$@ < 1288408053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DOES THIS NOT WORK < 1288408067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 15; 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 14 < 1288408079 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, someone's highlighted me < 1288408084 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGAIN < 1288408093 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The image can be smaller than that. < 1288408093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't I, olsner < 1288408102 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: stop numbering olsner! < 1288408105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i want it to be that size exactly :) < 1288408110 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then who is the transgressor of this transgression? < 1288408113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: dd sucks because it can't do this < 1288408120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I'm trying to bait you into telling me how to do it) < 1288408135 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this morning we were talking about swedes... < 1288408147 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was hours ago < 1288408149 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: aha, nothing important then < 1288408151 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Add conv=notrunc < 1288408175 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do see that Sgeo has been talking shit about Opera recently < 1288408176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: seriously? that is the ugliest thing ever < 1288408187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd's syntax is revolting. < 1288408204 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually an IBM mainframe import. < 1288408231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1288408240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it was in unix 1 :) < 1288408249 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but interestingly with a *sane* syntax < 1288408258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1288408259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was find < 1288408263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... think < 1288408263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288408266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1288408268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something < 1288408269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288408275 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, everything should use dd's syntax! < 1288408299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: now i add stuff to the bootsector rule to check it's 512 bytes or less :) < 1288408306 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :env, for example! < 1288408334 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288408349 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat if=foo.c < 1288408372 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a happier world < 1288408455 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: OK. I have eaten. I have full use of my hands. Where do I start? < 1288408468 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume I download something < 1288408492 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if it's ghc-6.12.3-src.tar.bz2 i already have < 1288408495 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1288408512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: indeed; unpack that < 1288408540 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.12 is probably considered old nowadays < 1288408553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lol < 1288408554 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.0 has been mentioned, after all < 1288408556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it being the latest release and all < 1288408568 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpacked. < 1288408574 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: exactly < 1288408588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok, sec < 1288408594 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"latest" release means past release means old < 1288408599 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also configured, but not in any particular way < 1288408603 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure didn't die < 1288408605 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good sign < 1288408607 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1288408616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you care how big the resulting ghc is and stuff? < 1288408617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't < 1288408623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: looks like they've made things better < 1288408630 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1288408637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it used to be hell to build < 1288408641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: do you have a dual-core system? < 1288408645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, just $ make < 1288408646 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1288408647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# make install < 1288408653 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288408654 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otay < 1288408658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: sorry for making you think it was complicated; it *used* to be < 1288408659 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did build ghc 6.12.3 the other day, it was just configure/make/make install < 1288408663 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any ill effects if I want to --prefix=$HOME it? < 1288408671 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just verbed a fucking command line option < 1288408674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well, it installs to /usr/local by default < 1288408683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: $HOME will be problematic, it has quite a lot of directories < 1288408689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: $HOME/local, sure. $HOME, no. < 1288408692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'd just install to /usr/local < 1288408699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: cabal installs to $HOME/.cabal anyway < 1288408705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you won't need to sudo for that regardless < 1288408719 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$HOME/local is too weird for me. i can live with this polluting the base, then < 1288408726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I built 7.0 using llvm-backend for all of it, it was about as complicated as unix source-installs usually are :D < 1288408735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: /usr/local is hardly base :P < 1288408740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's default, btw < 1288408751 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's base-r < 1288408763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then when that installs, we can build the HASKELL PLATFORM < 1288408766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is FUNNN < 1288408804 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, the "platform" is for n00bs < 1288408827 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typical netbsd thing: % make errors x 61! % gmake < 1288408828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're full of shit :P < 1288408834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah uh, use gmake < 1288408841 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no, it's not: it's for everyone who doesn't really give a shit) < 1288408849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for everyone who gives a shit too < 1288408867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you just LOVE manually installing tons of cabal packages for no freaking raeson < 1288408868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1288408885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh, haskell platform is easy it seems < 1288408886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is full of shit for the people who want shit, due to the people who give shit
< 1288408889 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it reminds me too much of python's easy_install stuff but elliott claims it's not really that similar < 1288408892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: once ghc is installed, http://hackage.haskell.org/platform/2010.2.0.0/haskell-platform-2010.2.0.0.tar.gz then configure gmake gmake install < 1288408896 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cabal, anyway < 1288408898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah cabal is a proper package manager at least < 1288408900 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno about HP < 1288408904 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like uber-cabal < 1288408905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal is much better than easy_install < 1288408912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell platform is just a bunch of cabal libraries in one basically < 1288408932 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy_install is just herp-derp-install-some-files < 1288408934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: haskell platform == "what should have been in the stdlib but isn't" < 1288408939 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know i read some doc on it and some cabal interface is like *exactly* the same as setup.py's for the same thing, and it creeped me out < 1288408940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy_install is atrocious, i read the code once < 1288408947 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot what though < 1288408947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes, but you still have the .cabal file < 1288408949 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal is from people who at least know some stuff < 1288408949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't care < 1288408950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which setup.py *doesn't* < 1288408961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you have to specify package name, versioned dependencies, all that stuff < 1288408964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more similar to apt. < 1288408988 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell me that the python people cargo-copied the haskell people and i will be happy < 1288409002 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's not true < 1288409009 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1288409014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the python people predated the haskell people < 1288409014 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you'll find they did *much worse* than copy anyone else < 1288409015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without brains < 1288409024 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rubygems might be older though < 1288409025 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc needs curses, i shall install that < 1288409028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even that's better than setup.py < 1288409035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you also want to install editline < 1288409037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then reconfigure < 1288409039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't already have it < 1288409040 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so bad about setup.py/ < 1288409043 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ncurses < 1288409044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: everything < 1288409047 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editline, ok < 1288409052 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and libgmp with headers, you'll also want < 1288409064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably has that < 1288409064 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libgmp, ok < 1288409067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ./configure worked < 1288409082 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmp-5.0.1 Library for arbitrary precision arithmetic < 1288409091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my recursive make rules should be phony, right? < 1288409100 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wouldn't begrudge you headers on netbsd < 1288409114 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't be so sure, I think some of the deps are hidden in recursive configure's or just libraries that will fali to build < 1288409120 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it says i have curses too < 1288409122 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses-5.7nb4 CRT screen handling and optimization package < 1288409133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CRT screen handling and optimization package", lovely < 1288409165 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: apparently my floppy isn't bootable! < 1288409169 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it could well have been optimalization) < 1288409171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how does the bios tell if a floppy is bootable? x_x < 1288409189 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a boot sector with magic 0xaa55 flags? < 1288409208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: $AA $55 is just for the partition table on the hard disk, isn't it? < 1288409213 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH < 1288409214 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/catseye/lib:/usr/pkg/lib:/home/catseye/lib:/usr/pkg/lib:/home/catseye/lib:/usr/pkg/lib:/home/catseye/lib:/usr/pkg/lib: < 1288409217 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye$ ls -la /usr/pkg/lib/libncurses.so < 1288409219 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 19 Oct 27 19:33 /usr/pkg/lib/libncurses.so -> libncurses.so.5.0.7 < 1288409226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befos/src/boot/beboot.s certainly doesn't have it >:) < 1288409227 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1288409228 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for setupterm in -lncursesw... no < 1288409229 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for setupterm in -lncurses... no < 1288409229 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for setupterm in -lcurses... no < 1288409229 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure: error: curses library not found, so this package cannot be built < 1288409237 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, I thought it meant bootable, but sure < 1288409244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it does for the partition table < 1288409246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at last < 1288409247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*least < 1288409281 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the install process might be doing some other crap to the bootblock as it installs it < 1288409291 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so make it find my curses < 1288409305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm < 1288409311 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: try --with-curses=/usr/pkg < 1288409317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: also, make clean before all that ofc < 1288409333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(OBJDIR)/beboot.com 0 \ < 1288409334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(OBJDIR)/bekernel.com 1 \ < 1288409334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(OBJDIR)/welcome.bin 8 \ < 1288409339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck kinda targets are that < 1288409348 0 :quintopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1288409387 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bedda < 1288409422 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vroom-vroom < 1288409423 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, and as the rest of xfce4 is installing, i am seeing icons where they should be < 1288409459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: btw, ghc does a two-stage bootstrap, you get to compile it *twice*! < 1288409463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh uh < 1288409468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: before make install on ghc, remember to remove your pkgsrc version < 1288409469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1288409481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does ghc install docs by default? whatever, they're online anyway < 1288409520 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it said it would build html docs < 1288409531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1288409545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void < 1288409545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make_bootable(FILE *outfile) < 1288409545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1288409545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fseek(outfile, 510, SEEK_SET); < 1288409545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fwrite("\x55\xaa", 2, 1, outfile); < 1288409546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1288409548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you sly man < 1288409587 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's easier to put it there than in the asm, that's for sure < 1288409598 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, looks like 0xaa55 that < 1288409606 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOES THIS MEAN I WAS RIGHT? < 1288409616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: IT APPEARS SO < 1288409624 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SWEET < 1288409625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: for SOME REASON you can't use org twice I WONDER WHY < 1288409647 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple orgs in asm < 1288409648 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE IT WHEN I'M RIGHT < 1288409664 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOOOOOVE < 1288409666 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geh < 1288409671 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it died on 'can't find curses' again < 1288409679 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time after building everything < 1288409682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not everything < 1288409684 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot < 1288409691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: even with --with-curses? < 1288409701 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curses, I'm sure you can provide an extensive set of those < 1288409752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm < 1288409753 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1288409755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure :D < 1288409772 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmake triggers something *else* running configure somewhere else < 1288409844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: "Unlike the ORG directive provided by MASM-compatible assemblers, which allows you to jump around in the object file and overwrite code you have already generated, NASM's ORG does exactly what the directive says: origin. Its sole function is to specify one offset which is added to all internal address references within the section; it does not permit any of the trickery that MASM's version does." < 1288409847 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MASM could do this, how sad is that? < 1288409852 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with --with-curses, that inner configure fails < 1288409853 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1288409855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People writing boot sector programs in the bin format often complain that ORG doesn't work the way they'd like: in order to place the 0xAA55 signature word at the end of a 512-byte boot sector, people who are used to MASM tend to code < 1288409855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ORG 0 < 1288409855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ; some boot sector code < 1288409855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ORG 510 < 1288409856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DW 0xAA55 < 1288409858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1288409868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" TIMES 510-($-$$) DB 0 " < 1288409868 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288409895 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you explicitly pad your program to put the magic stuff at the right offset < 1288409895 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: use my bootblock installer program it is da bomb < 1288409905 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1288409905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IIRC, $ is the origin and $$ is the current address. < 1288409913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, other way around. < 1288409916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah < 1288409928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: even though my origin is 0 apparently i still have to do it like this says the manual < 1288409932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it looked crap and your face is crap < 1288409936 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1288409938 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes sense, at least I think I get why ORG was not given any magic beyond telling how offsets are interpreted < 1288409948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah but is it so much to ask for an "at" instruction? < 1288409949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 510 < 1288409950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288409962 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nope < 1288409963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo it "boots" (and does nothing) < 1288409977 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but boot sectors are ... once an operating system things? < 1288409981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: omg < 1288409984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db $55, $aa < 1288409984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1288409989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db 0x55, 0xaa < 1288409990 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1288409992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :db $55,$AA works < 1288409997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a conspiracy to stop people using $???? < 1288410007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$aa55 too does it < 1288410031 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaah < 1288410035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : db $55,$AA < 1288410035 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is a conspiracy only against elliott < 1288410036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't actually work < 1288410040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(possibly because of jews?) < 1288410042 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, i have curses, but it doesn't support the function that it wants, it lookslike: < 1288410045 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configure:3737: gcc -o conftest -g -O2 conftest.c -lcurses >&5 < 1288410048 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/tmp//ccIbLPmn.o: In function `main': < 1288410050 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/catseye/build/ghc-6.12.3/libraries/terminfo/conftest.c:29: undefined reference to `setupterm' < 1288410055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: aha! maybe your curses is like a bsd curses < 1288410060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to say -lncurses < 1288410062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the n curses < 1288410069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1288410073 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288410082 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries -lcurses before it tries -lncurses < 1288410091 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... should kill it for doing that < 1288410134 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... it doesnt < 1288410138 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you kill it for something before you have even brought it to life? < 1288410176 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i have powers. < 1288410183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool stuff < 1288410301 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sez it can't find ncurses.h. i am reinstalling that package. it was installed because i installed cmake. i installed cmake to build Falcon. YOU SEE HOW THIS WORKS < 1288410323 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falcon is sending its bad juju vibrations at Haskell via CURSES < 1288410376 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Falcon" the brewery? < 1288410432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: falcon the "language" < 1288410445 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on that bombshell, it's time to end... or whatever they say on "television" < 1288410517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, why wasn't all Falcon-touching material done in a VM? < 1288410618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner's entire experience of television is Top Gear < 1288410665 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this Haskell terminfo library is feral < 1288410677 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets me specify where curses.h is < 1288410682 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not where ncurses.h is < 1288410690 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my ncurses.h is in < 1288410692 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /usr/pkg/include/ncurses/ncurses.h < 1288410712 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... am going to have to hack configure.ac < 1288410723 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lawl < 1288410727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: nobody cares about bsds < 1288410913 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288411071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1288411085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know how Bush is so fond of saying "history will vindicate me"? < 1288411095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One other President talked like that. < 1288411103 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :James Buchanan. < 1288411127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who could reasonably be regarded as the worst President. < 1288411150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: my favourite president is William Henry Harrison < 1288411154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Civil War happened on his watch) < 1288411157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's the only one not to fuck anything up < 1288411166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a president < 1288411228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His only act as President was to call a special session of Congress. < 1288411232 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/pkg/include/ncurses/ncurses.h:66:33: error: ncurses/ncurses_dll.h: No such file or directory < 1288411235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1288411237 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this < 1288411262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need ncurses really < 1288411267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yup < 1288411270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: best president ever < 1288411277 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to disable terminfo from being built somehow then < 1288411290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh you probably want terminfo < 1288411291 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: uh < 1288411302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: build ncurses from source into /usr/local? :P < 1288411307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: did anything bad happen under his watch? nope. < 1288411324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Well, there's the *arguable* David Rice Atchison. < 1288411327 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: feels so right how can it be wrong < 1288411336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: quite < 1288411365 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: James Polk's successor, Zachary Taylor refused to be sworn in on a Sunday, when James Polk's term ended. < 1288411388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: However, while it is alleged that the offices of President and Vice President were vacant, Atchison in fact was not next in line. While the terms of President James K. Polk and Vice President George Mifflin Dallas had expired, Atchison's tenure as President pro tempore had already expired when the Thirtieth Congress adjourned sine die on March 3. He also never took the oath of office. No disability or lack of qualification prevented Taylor < 1288411388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and Fillmore from taking office, and as they had been duly certified to take office that day as president-elect and vice president-elect, if Taylor was not president because he had not been sworn in as such, then Atchison, who had not been sworn in either, certainly was not President either.[19] < 1288411407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atchison was sworn in for his new term as President pro tempore minutes before both Fillmore and Taylor,[citation needed] which might theoretically make him Acting President for at least that length of time; however, this also implies that many times when the Vice President is sworn in before the President, the Vice President is the de facto Acting President. Since this is a common occurrence, if Atchison is considered President, so must every Vi < 1288411407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ce President whose inauguration preceded that of the President if the President was sworn in after noon on Inauguration Day. < 1288411420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pity. < 1288411430 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but yeah, fuck yeah William Henry Harrison < 1288411433 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Subsequent work (through 1.8.8) was driven by Eric Raymond, who eradicated previous signs of authorship with the current copyright notice between 1.8.7 and 1.8.8, early 1995. " -- ncurses history < 1288411456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: xD < 1288411485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you know anything about the BIOS?!?!?! < 1288411511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not really. < 1288411515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ;_; < 1288411525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd bother cpressey but i've bothered him enough for one day < 1288411530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Doing a kernel in Basic" what a splendid idea < 1288411591 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh wh wh wait what what? < 1288411603 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know only a bit about the bios < 1288411617 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly from reading RBIL < 1288411657 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288411673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ralf brown's interrupt list? < 1288411678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally just loaded up the osdev page about that < 1288411688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: basically i just want docs of all the interrupts :P < 1288411690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to call them < 1288411698 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that < 1288411703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sadly, the entries for interrupt and port calls that have been "standardized" are not easy to find." < 1288411703 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has that < 1288411705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: doesn't look much fun < 1288411711 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not fun < 1288411716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i think i'll keep searching :P < 1288411717 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is not *too* unfun < 1288411726 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the formatting is... special < 1288411736 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the best resource i could find, at the time < 1288411784 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thunar looks better now! Can still only cd into one directory, though >_< < 1288411805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: try restarting xfce i.e. log out and in again (don't enable "save session" in the logout screen) < 1288411809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it... might work < 1288411815 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i will, later < 1288411828 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1288411834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of local labels? < 1288411835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>____> < 1288411846 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you have settings now; go into Appearance and set a non-Raleigh theme :P < 1288411851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: preferably GREY MIST < 1288411853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is awesome. < 1288411989 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have GREY MIST yet < 1288412024 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xfce4-stellar < 1288412078 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local labels are labels except local < 1288412087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: grey mist isn't part of xfce < 1288412090 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is so you can say @loop: in a bunch of places < 1288412090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's part of being awesome < 1288412096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it .foo not @foo? < 1288412100 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i install being awesome < 1288412106 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: er yes, in THIS assembler < 1288412115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288412129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how to install grey mist: < 1288412137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mkdir -p "~/.themes/Grey Mist/gtk-2.0" < 1288412139 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: don't know how to make names.c. Stop < 1288412147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1288412151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mkdir -p ~/.themes/Grey\ Mist/gtk-2.0 < 1288412159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wget http://sprunge.us/PaWY -O ~/.themes/Grey\ Mist/gtk-2.0/gtkrc < 1288412162 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot build ncurses 2.7 *from source* < 1288412167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then go into xfce appearance and select grey mist. < 1288412188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: if your interface is suddenly hideously boring but not ugly, mission accomplished < 1288412207 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1288412216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh wait < 1288412222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: before you do that, install gtk2-engines < 1288412230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: which is probably what it's called. < 1288412235 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have that < 1288412247 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have that < 1288412251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1288412259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tiny < 1288412261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no biggie to install it < 1288412269 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes < 1288412282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh so it is called that? phew :P < 1288412313 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288412348 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where in the world is Carmen Sandiego? < 1288412364 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, ncurses built < 1288412369 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mistake: not using gmake < 1288412440 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I ever tell you my story about Sandiego? < 1288412455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh, do go on < 1288412505 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the day that the graduating class was .. doing something. Some trip, celebrationish iirc, end of the year, the girl I liked wasn't there < 1288412517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked her friend, and she said that she's in San Diego < 1288412550 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It utterly failed to process in my mind as a real place, due to "Carmen Sandiego", and thus I thought that that was just some excuse and she was avoiding me or something < 1288412584 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out San Diego is a real place, and I found out why she was there towards the end of the day < 1288412610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason I think about any of that having any effect is because I never asked her friend "Why?", which would have showed some interest, I think < 1288412624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exciting < 1288412644 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked me to go on < 1288412648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God the US is crazy. < 1288412661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: the US is one of two nations with legal *bounty hunting*. < 1288412666 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Bounty hunting*. < 1288412684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha. < 1288412695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HowStuffWorks "How Bounty Hunting Works" < 1288412695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bounty hunting is an important part of the American justice system. < 1288412702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to Become a Bounty Hunter - wikiHow < 1288412702 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikiHow article about How to Become a Bounty Hunter. < 1288412703 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know things about telephone red-boxing and I know how payphones can be corrected. Say you have three LEDs on the payphone, one red, one yellow, and one green. These lights indicate the mode. The initial mode is red mode. < 1288412732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It < 1288412743 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*It's cheaper than a police force. < 1288412779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In red mode, coins inserted go into the holding area and send red-box tones, the keypad is enabled, and the microphone is disabled during red mode. Signals can be sent Y (change to yellow mode), G (change to green mode), Z (accept coins), X (reject coins), from the telephone company to the payphone. < 1288412814 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In yellow mode, microphone is enabled, coins are automatically rejected, and the R (change to red mode) command is accepted. < 1288412837 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In green mode, microphone is enabled, coins are automatically rejected, and no commands are recognized. < 1288412873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In service mode (all three LEDs lit), everything is enabled, including diagnostic functions. < 1288412887 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. Would this way work better? < 1288412933 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the terminfo library is fucked. you need to #include . You can't just #include . they're dumb. < 1288412943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lawl < 1288412949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no. it really wouldn't < 1288412962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sounds like a pain to use, no? < 1288413013 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How would it be a pain to use? The user needs to do nothing special. The telephone company's computer can have a simple program to do this logic. < 1288413023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, okay < 1288413028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were proposing a UI change < 1288413208 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, no UI change. The only visible change to the payphone is the three LEDs to indicate mode, and it is possible to use the payphone like normal even without paying attention to the mode. < 1288413221 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Why does the mode need to be displayed? < 1288413298 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it [doesn't] run [on] NetBSD! < 1288413300 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mostly for diagnostics purposes. But I suppose someone who understands them might be able to understand more things from them too. < 1288413395 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncurses note: does not build shared libraries by defatul < 1288413425 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's the other nation? < 1288413463 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's Norway, maybe one got oerjan. < 1288413498 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: The Phillipines. < 1288413521 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... < 1288413546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Philippines < 1288413764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i have no idea how to use bios interrupts < 1288413786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mode lights can still be useful if you want to use them, such as to tell when you inserted the correct coins and your call is now connected, or, in case of operator assistance, to tell when it is ready to insert money. And you can't toll fraud with the red box, since the microphone is disabled in red mode. < 1288413830 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1288413852 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note that it is disallowed to switch from yellow mode directly to green mode. This is important.) < 1288413866 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah, rock music that really *uses* dynamic contrast. Such a nice change. < 1288413993 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're easy < 1288414000 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're not hard, anyway < 1288414002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok explain them :P < 1288414005 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befos is full of them < 1288414036 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov ax, something; mov bx, something else; int 10h < 1288414041 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe also cx < 1288414050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i still need a list that isn't evil though :P < 1288414157 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you seen this version: http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-10.htm < 1288414179 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0210.htm < 1288414189 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's readable! < 1288414196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh that's much nicer < 1288414196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1288414223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://www.ctyme.com/intr/int-00.htm interrupt 0 is a LICENSE < 1288414239 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoextract script is perfect! < 1288414253 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the ones you want are in 10h iirc < 1288414263 0 :evincar!~chatzilla@daffa.rh.rit.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1288414315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the bios has non-10 interrupts? sheesh < 1288414317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's 10 in hex right? < 1288414322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288414331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: will you kill me for writing "int 10h"? < 1288414349 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, as i think fizzie mentioned, that is the one place where h is acceptable. < 1288414356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1288414385 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even *i* instinctively type 10h and 21h after 'int', and I'm not much of an x86 person. < 1288414405 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with h? < 1288414416 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes you wonder why there's no g < 1288414421 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abcdefh < 1288414424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288414435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: we just need to copy the mathematicians and use _16 < 1288414436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really < 1288414439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shit needs to go in front < 1288414443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16#foo is what smalltalk does i think < 1288414444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's nice < 1288414452 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, erlang stole it from there < 1288414457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288414470 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could generalize it further! < 1288414477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: FRACTIONAL BASES < 1288414482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2+i)1 < 1288414485 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'0123456789'#42 < 1288414486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1288414491 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2+i)#1 < 1288414493 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imaginary bases < 1288414502 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P-ADIC INTEGERS < 1288414502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: '# )'##) )# < 1288414514 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Imaginary bases have been seriously used. < 1288414515 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott? < 1288414520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: base is '# )' < 1288414522 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i don't doubt it < 1288414525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. # is 0 < 1288414525 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: escape those damn spaces < 1288414527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is 1 < 1288414528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) is 2 < 1288414530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus < 1288414531 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dildos have been seriously used too < 1288414534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#) )# < 1288414535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1288414541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quadrescence: Most notably Knuth's quater-imaginary base. < 1288414542 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, why the no? < 1288414542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2120 < 1288414543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in trinary < 1288414546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(base 2i) < 1288414547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just no :P < 1288414552 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes i know < 1288414552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use italic for octal numbers and typewriter style for hexadecimal numbers < 1288414558 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some neat properties < 1288414564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imaginary bases have a serious use? < 1288414567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as not needing a sign. < 1288414572 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1288414577 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I guess elliott's trying to tell me that it should be 2i#1 < 1288414583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288414616 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2+i is complex, at any rate. Any use for complex bases over plain old imaginary bases? < 1288414649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: man all this head and drive and cylinders and stuff < 1288414651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: it's so retro and i hate it < 1288414669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pain and agony, maybe. < 1288414671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION retconjurates elliott
< 1288414684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also do all numbers extend on the left instead of the right of the radix point, you can have without the sign, because in base 2, you have ......11111111111 for negative one, and (-1$0) (where $ is interleave operator) for negative two thirds. < 1288414717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base-n has an interleave operator? < 1288414720 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1288414729 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: PACKET MODE < 1288414732 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuff said < 1288414736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we describe this whole thing with bases as "base-n", what's "base-n,m"? < 1288414744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: O, instead of complex bases, can you now use bases with hypercomplex numbers, or meta-complex numbers, or with quantum states or whatever? < 1288414747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i, uh... < 1288414758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: is that your rebuttal to everything? :D < 1288414759 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you were talking to cpressey sorry < 1288414763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I mean like the INTERCAL interleave operator, but with infinite amount of bits < 1288414765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surreal bases! < 1288414783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does not know what a meta-complex number is
< 1288414785 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, surreal bases, that is an example of what I mean, by making new bases < 1288414802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is "hypercomplex" number just a term for things such as quaternions and octonions? < 1288414818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i am apparently unable to read asm < 1288414818 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "hypercomplex" is for quaternions and octonions < 1288414823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: befos confounds me < 1288414854 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the prettiest asm but mostly it's because it has no real plan < 1288414863 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the individual routines are ok < 1288414871 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not golfed or anything mostly < 1288414876 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still has no idea what a meta-complex number is
< 1288414891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While meta-complex is a idea I invented (possibly other people did too, independent of me), where a rank-3 meta-complex number has eight components: real-real-real (RRR), real-real-imaginary (RRI), RIR, RII, IRR, IRI, IIR, III. < 1288414910 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argably, 2+i still fits the base-n format. n just = 2+i < 1288414912 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meta-complex numbers are commutative. < 1288414919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(regardless of rank) < 1288414924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION did not realise that anyone had actually done anything that's hypercomplex.
< 1288414943 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The construction is pretty obvious, of course. Just didn't realise anyone had actually done it. < 1288414951 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SL, and probably lots of other 3d stuff, uses quarternions for rotations < 1288414980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was even *less* aware that it was even vaguely useful. < 1288414981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrix reprentations of meta-complex numbers can be synthesized by tensor products of matrix representations of complex numbers. < 1288415035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: unfortunately you can't do 3plexes < 1288415038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is LAAAME < 1288415068 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now do you have idea what a meta-complex number is? < 1288415099 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2|4|i + 5|i|2i ? < 1288415120 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: btw: guy who reformatted the interrupt list: loser < 1288415125 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, not quite like that. < 1288415129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wut < 1288415157 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a visionary of the computer industry, I have become a minor celebrity in the world of nerds. I'm the Supreme Commander of the Nerd Liberation Movement. We're coming out of the Back Room. I'm so smart that the government wants me to register my brain as a weapon. I'm the most dangerous mind on the Internet." < 1288415172 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that's nothing < 1288415174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"John C. Dvorak (Good man!)" < 1288415184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i topped it in five words < 1288415184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that < 1288415199 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? this isn't a war of losers < 1288415201 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you represent a complex number (or rank-1 meta-complex number) as ordered pair, then a rank-2 meta-complex number is represent by ordered quad (four components) of reals. < 1288415204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no, the same guy said that < 1288415207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Well, if he can perform decent-quality encryption in his brain somehow (implant?), then his brain would in fact be a weapon. < 1288415209 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no wish to promote this loser as PARTICULARLY loserful < 1288415211 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1288415215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i'm saying mine demonstrates how losery he is in far fewer words < 1288415227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he likes Dvorak, who is a real-life troll and moron ofc < 1288415243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ohh it's THAT guy! < 1288415246 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea who that is < 1288415266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the guy who has a page telling teenagers to smoke weed < 1288415312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: (and also has a page telling them that smoking cigarettes is the WORST THING EVER) < 1288415316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/smoke.htm < 1288415317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perkel.com/politics/issues/pot.htm < 1288415365 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288415368 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loser. < 1288415378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1288415380 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288415385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: good thing i only care about the interrupts :) < 1288415390 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288415406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: so uh... do i really have to care about sectors and cylinders and crap? < 1288415433 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you write a operating system on IBM PC, it is necessary to deal with sector numbers and cylinder numbers. < 1288415444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i mean in my bootloader < 1288415481 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ I GOT PAST THE NCURSES CLUSTERFUCK < 1288415482 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  | < 1288415482 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :  |\ < 1288415488 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by hacking configure.ac < 1288415490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait < 1288415498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: in http://catseye.tc/projects/befos/src/boot/beboot.s where do you set ah to 02? < 1288415500 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, in the bootloader, you use sector numbers and cylinder numbers. I wrote a simple bootloader. < 1288415502 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`echo Am I still slow? < 1288415514 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I still slow? < 1288415520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, not that slow. < 1288415528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait you have it in KERNEL_AX which is... inexplicably not just 02 < 1288415544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AM CONFUZZLE < 1288415547 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: where do you see that i need to> < 1288415549 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*? < 1288415552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0607.htm < 1288415553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISK - READ SECTOR(S) INTO MEMORY < 1288415553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AH = 02h < 1288415560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Int 13/AH=02h < 1288415589 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: INT13_READCODE * 256 < 1288415602 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rather eurr of me < 1288415609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and then you add KERNEL_SIZE to it for some inexplicable reason??? < 1288415613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh are you like < 1288415615 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's al < 1288415617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assigning both in one instruction < 1288415619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're crazy < 1288415626 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTOMIZED < 1288415629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288415630 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fbJU < 1288415634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna optomise it, catseye < 1288415638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm dumb as fuck and so will be my code < 1288415651 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is a simple MBR code. < 1288415658 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it fits in 400mumble bytes! < 1288415683 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: What does that mean? < 1288415688 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i'm still planning to replace it with yours < 1288415700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yours is, uh, wow, what does it do? < 1288415713 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it means you can say "mov ah, ...; mov al, ..." if you like, but "mov ax, ..." is still shorter < 1288415722 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: enters unreal mode! < 1288415723 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1288415729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and nothing else? < 1288415738 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and loads and boots something else < 1288415743 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again iirc < 1288415750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: unreal mode is irreversibly associated with this image of mr bean for me: http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/images/mr-bean.jpg < 1288415754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It fills the screen with "p" and loads the operating system into RAM, and then jump to the start of operating system code. < 1288415756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and bad english written by a polish person < 1288415773 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: It is the operating system itself that enters unreal mode. < 1288415773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: because of this really young (like 11, 12) pole on the osdev forums who did an unreal mode os and that was his avatar < 1288415776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it has... soured my impression < 1288415782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why fill screen with p :D < 1288415782 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, i misremembered < 1288415804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because of the color attribute. < 1288415807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: omg i'm gonna make my bootloader print out additional os for each time it has to retry reading < 1288415811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: boooot < 1288415819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is the reason why it isn't a different letter) < 1288415837 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld: cannot find -lgmp < 1288415839 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesssss < 1288415929 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is the code to enter unreal mode short enough that you COULD put it in the bootblock? < 1288416000 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I believe it probably is. < 1288416017 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has wicked thoughts
< 1288416033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now how do you output characters with bios >:) < 1288416037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like http://www.ctyme.com/intr/rb-0100.htm < 1288416067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MBR code I have does not use BIOS to output characters; it writes directly to video memory. < 1288416080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, you can output characters with BIOS, too. < 1288416092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ah, 0x0A < 1288416092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov al, 'B' < 1288416092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov cx, 1 < 1288416092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int 10h < 1288416093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot! < 1288416103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, i tried video memory < 1288416106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it didn't quite work... < 1288416107 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The operating system should clear the screen once it boots) < 1288416179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to understand your asm
< 1288416192 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Why did video memory not quite work? Ensure segment 0xB800 for text video. < 1288416205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it doesn't help that i suck at segments :) < 1288416221 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Absolute memory address 0xB8000) < 1288416240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ax, 0xB800 < 1288416240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov word [0], 0x0798 < 1288416241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly not this! < 1288416246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: i have never done segments before) < 1288416258 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to set the segment register! < 1288416285 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DS for most things, but ES for destination of STOSB and similar things) < 1288416298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would help, yes :D < 1288416329 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ds, 0xB800 < 1288416331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently this isn't cosher < 1288416333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*kosher < 1288416335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads more
< 1288416339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must. figure. it. out! < 1288416356 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, you can't assign segment registers directly < 1288416362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: lol. < 1288416363 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, push onto stack, then pop ds < 1288416364 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no MOV DS,immediate command, too bad! < 1288416368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: whaaat < 1288416374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: 8086 makes no sense, agreed? < 1288416404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1288416408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does beautiful things < 1288416413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have no idea how < 1288416427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it does boring things when i fix it < 1288416432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Setting the code segment is even weirder. < 1288416441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You do a long jump. < 1288416445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288416495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: grumble why don't bioses start OSes with a blank screen < 1288416498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why i ask you, why?! < 1288416520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computer does it tons of times per second. < 1288416521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wait, does yours fill the screen without jumping? < 1288416542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it uses REPZ and STOSB command to fill. < 1288416550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bow to you. < 1288416553 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fills screen with black "p" on gray background. < 1288416563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you can see it is loading. < 1288416573 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then operating system should clear it, to tell you it has been loaded. < 1288416647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: is this code public domain, or? < 1288416656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it is public domain. < 1288416661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1288416673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's helped me learn. sort of :P :) < 1288416722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288416725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov word [0], 0x0766 < 1288416728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come this isn't the same as < 1288416734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288416739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66 isn't in decimal there < 1288416740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288416779 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also see the strange way it loads the operating system, it does that so that it can load even if the operating system code overwrites the MBR code. < 1288416786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: heh < 1288416800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: you know what, outputting is overrated < 1288416805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viva the silent boot! < 1288416831 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckit < 1288416834 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIBRARY_PATH < 1288416837 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are my friend < 1288416875 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the MBR code is loaded, the DX register already contains the current drive number. < 1288416913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: why does the befos kernel start at sector 4, not 2? whyyyy < 1288416915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what i ask you < 1288416928 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i wanted padding for... something < 1288416934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: like a LAMER. < 1288416945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh it does? < 1288416947 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was predicting the boot code would grow? < 1288416948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't need to "mov dl, 0" then :) < 1288416963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well the boot sector can't, can it? it's one sector by definition < 1288416970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and all other booting code can be done in the "OS" < 1288416976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it does. You don't need to adjust the DL register. < 1288416977 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah < 1288416987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: :p < 1288417018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov ah, 0ah < 1288417020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, oh ah. < 1288417046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288417095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: why doesn't nogood set cx? < 1288417103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL THESE QUESTIONS < 1288417122 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have in the operating system is a Forth word DISK which points to a variable in memory storing the current drive number. When the system loads it copy DL to DISK and then it copy DISK to DL when doing BIOS call to read the files on the disk. < 1288417175 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So instead of typing A: like you do in DOS, you would type 0 DISK ! for the similar function. < 1288417254 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i have no idea < 1288417259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288417268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cool < 1288417291 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guess it will be written KERNEL_SEC + (KERNEL_CYL * 256) times < 1288417321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov dword [0], 0x076F0762 < 1288417322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov word [5], 0x076F < 1288417326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my optimazition totally no worketh < 1288417355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha it needs to be [4] < 1288417362 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my LIBRARY_PATH cheatingness seems to have gotten ghc to make further progress < 1288417504 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what would happen if i *did* switch to unreal mode in the MBR, then booted DOS with that < 1288417523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo: mov al, 0 < 1288417523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov ah, 0x07 < 1288417523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov dh, 25 < 1288417524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov dl, 80 < 1288417524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int 10h < 1288417526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clears the screen woo < 1288417551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i never use al anywhere < 1288417556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great place to put my cursor pointer! < 1288417616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc al < 1288417616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc al < 1288417621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: OPTOMISED < 1288417644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: psht what's this i can't do mov [al]? < 1288417650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: x86 is so unorthogonal < 1288417714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288417715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :al is, uh < 1288417715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288417728 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one byte? < 1288417769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288417770 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiiiRRRhhhh < 1288417772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cal153: woot < 1288417776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it now fills the screen with "booooooooooooooO" < 1288417780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the capital < 1288417781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1288417786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1288417788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*catseye: < 1288417797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you can measure how long your floppy takes to get ready by the number of os! < 1288417799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius, right? < 1288417802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boot = magic floppy < 1288417803 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm-a gonna set C_INCLUDE_PATH too < 1288417806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booot = one retry < 1288417810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooot = two retries < 1288417815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booooot = uh oh < 1288417821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooooot = most OSes have already given up at this point < 1288417916 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I suspect that unreal mode DOS would *barely* work. < 1288417923 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have already given up building ghc 6.12 on netbsd on this point < 1288417931 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*at this < 1288417947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You could just build it for i686-pc-linux-gnu on NetBSD. < 1288417963 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I could just run Ubuntu, too. < 1288417965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by build I mean download. < 1288418010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://sprunge.us/DPId my AWESOME incomplete bootsector < 1288418016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's even better than the makefile! < 1288418051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a successful boot should result in something like booot! :) < 1288418063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the ! < 1288418066 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ! marks SUCCESS < 1288418137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: is it bad to be enjoying this? < 1288418206 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1288418218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm it's at cylinder 0 it seems < 1288418223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 (position) / 18) / 2 < 1288418272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head 0 too < 1288418303 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: while ghc builds i'm going to try putting netbsd on this usb stick < 1288418309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: good luck < 1288418323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ES:BX -> data buffer < 1288418333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean BX as interpreted within the segment pointed to by ES is where the data goes? < 1288418470 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically yes < 1288418476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm, why is befos loaded into segment 0x50? < 1288418487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are a certain number of segments not wise to touch? < 1288418498 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of ES as the "high word" and BX as the "low word" except there is actually some overlap (don't worry about that) < 1288418509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i know that < 1288418514 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: there was a doc i read once that suggested it < 1288418520 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never find it again < 1288418524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288418527 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't remember why < 1288418543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the lowest segment that should work barring x86 being crazy? has to be after wherever 0x7C00 is presumably since that's where the bootloader is < 1288418546 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me... let me think what it was called. someone might have archived it on the internets < 1288418744 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm, what would the org be for something loaded in sector 0x50 or whatever? < 1288418772 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found the site < 1288418782 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't know off the top of my head < 1288418788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288418854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION votes 0xFFFF
< 1288418923 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I found it! http://pastie.org/private/gvavjfgtp0mbpntidfimta < 1288418945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you linked that thing's docs yesterday, didn't you? :) < 1288418948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1288418968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that any < 1288418968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file (.COM or otherwise) which is booted from a disk MUST NOT contain < 1288418968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any DOS calls (INT 21 etc.) since DOS is not loaded, and any calls to < 1288418968 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will crash the system." < 1288418970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't say < 1288419012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i don't see 0x50 there :) < 1288419018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 0x40 < 1288419034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has bios shit in it, and so sounds less-than-optimal... < 1288419135 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Booted programs requiring less than 30464 bytes of memory can be loaded < 1288419135 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the default segment $0050, below the BOOT loader code. Larger programs < 1288419135 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be loaded at segment $0800, above the boot loader. < 1288419145 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was NOT 5 lines, irssi) < 1288419146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"movl $42, %fs:(%eax) ; Equivalent to M[fs:eax]<-42) in RTL" < 1288419149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment: beyond useless < 1288419152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(--wikipedia) < 1288419156 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ah < 1288419167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it was 5 lines, just most of them were blank and the ircd discarded them :) < 1288419177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "most", still less than half :p < 1288419193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: 0x800 sounds good then < 1288419226 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But your program http://sprunge.us/DPId mess up the DL register!!? < 1288419258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm? how? < 1288419260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does it matter? < 1288419273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is hardly a program yet, i haven't put in disk reading :) < 1288419299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the DL register to boot from the drive. Perhaps push it to the stack if you need it for something else at first. < 1288419347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, dl is drive number! < 1288419352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I completely forgot. < 1288419366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I will just use a different register. < 1288419432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: hmm, will DL always be 0? < 1288419436 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the bios set it automatically? < 1288419460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The BIOS sets it automatically, I think. DL will be zero if you are booting from the first floppy drive. < 1288419498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1288419506 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Thank you for pointing that out. < 1288419540 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: usb stick is being newfs'ed < 1288419543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: woot < 1288419564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: this is the most fun programming something i've had in ages < 1288419570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm totally learning here! < 1288419584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my first asm program that i didn't just copy-and-paste... even if i did take a lot of cues from your bootloader :P < 1288419670 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: now i have to decide how many sectors my kernel takes up, sheesh! < 1288419691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm, one sector = 512 bytes? < 1288419693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, of course < 1288419710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: should i just set it to the rest of the floppy to start with? < 1288419748 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you I suppose < 1288419755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i will < 1288419756 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can do how I did it, if you want to < 1288419762 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just picked 8K on the basis that I would probably not make anything that big to start < 1288419775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: sorry, I couldn't understand your program, not a good enough asm programmer :) how does yours do it? < 1288419786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah but i'm probably going to be using C here (although... i like this asm malarkey a lot) < 1288419789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and, well, you know gcc. < 1288419813 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1288419841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: long term plan is to not have this on a floppy anyway, and then, well, it's just loading a 1.44 megs minus 512 bytes kernel off a way larger medium :p < 1288419848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: even though, uh, i have no partition table, so it'd probably be a CD < 1288419853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just a partition < 1288419858 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine loads the maximum number of sectors, starting at the address in RAM which is designated for the operating system. < 1288419897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is how it loads the kernel. < 1288419944 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :options COMPAT_FREEBSD # binary compatibility with FreeBSD < 1288419949 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you *can* has that < 1288419983 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: here, have the cat -v version of my bootsector < 1288419985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RM-4^GM-:P^YM-M^PZM-4^BM-M^Ph^@M-8^_fM-G^F^@^@b^Go^GM-;^D^@M-G^Go^GCCM-4^@M-M^Sh^@^H^G1M-[M-0>M-1^B0M-vM-M^SrM-ffM-G^Gt^G!^G^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@ < 1288419985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@ < 1288419986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@^@UM-* < 1288420059 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAH < 1288420060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: oh woot, my celebration code doesn't work < 1288420064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: how cool is that < 1288420088 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does uouospdfo your celebration code do? < 1288420109 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um del word #3 < 1288420132 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local lag becuz i am building a USB_STICK kernel < 1288420140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait wait < 1288420140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first < 1288420142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexdump bootloader < 1288420143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000000 b452 ba07 1950 10cd b45a cd02 6810 b800 < 1288420143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000010 661f 06c7 0000 0762 076f 04bb c700 6f07 < 1288420143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000020 4307 b443 cd00 6813 0800 3107 b0db b13e < 1288420143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000030 3002 cdf6 7213 e9e6 fffd 0000 0000 0000 < 1288420145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000040 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 < 1288420147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1288420149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00001f0 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 aa55 < 1288420151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0000200 < 1288420155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: mov dword [bx], 0x07210774 < 1288420159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288420165 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, assembly coding is a blast < 1288420167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: would modifying es fuck up the segments? < 1288420174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not, it still changes the screen < 1288420176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just erratically < 1288420182 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you've touched es yet? < 1288420188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : push 0x800 ; segment < 1288420189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pop es < 1288420191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have full loading now! < 1288420193 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you do < 1288420196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on to the celebration bit post-load < 1288420212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you know the awesome thing? i can't think how i'd use up 510 bytes. < 1288420219 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but what is that mov dword supposed to do? put two chars on screen? < 1288420227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288420228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'t!' < 1288420233 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1288420234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes it two words to test
< 1288420262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the result is "t!o" < 1288420264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes little sense really < 1288420268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1288420269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i clobber bx < 1288420272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when loading < 1288420272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288420280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: got a better register to stuff this into than dx? :P < 1288420288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is so register-starved it's not even funny < 1288420292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see why people use x86-64 < 1288420320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woot < 1288420323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"boot!" < 1288420437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh wow < 1288420446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: jumping to KERNEL_SEGMENT:0 does wonderful things < 1288420453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: the t morphs into tons of characters every second < 1288420462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: presumably the null byte does really fun stuff as x86 < 1288420485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: add [bx+si],al apparently < 1288420493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't think why that would do anything to vga but still < 1288420495 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: hmm wait < 1288420512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: when i do the long jump it's the jumped-to code's responsibility to set up segment registers and whatnot right? < 1288420553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait so bx is ... 6 there, si is presumably 0(?) < 1288420554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1288420556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh man that's great < 1288420558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: si is 0 < 1288420568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: bx is the pointer to the t, since i don't bother incrementing dx after celebrating (why bother?) < 1288420573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: we're in vga text ram < 1288420583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and al is KERNEL_SECTORS = 62 < 1288420593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so basically after the jump, the NULLs add 62 to the t every cycle < 1288420602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1288420609 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288420618 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1288420619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: aaaand before today i wouldn't have been able to figure that out < 1288420620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go me < 1288420622 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1288420634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok, so, si is 0 < 1288420636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i never touch si < 1288420650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: at the start of the program i switch segment to 0xB800 i.e. text display < 1288420658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and i use bx for the offset < 1288420666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so it starts off as 4 because i've put "bo" in there < 1288420678 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< elliott> can't think why that would do anything to vga but still <-- ds still points to the screen right? < 1288420679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then it gets "o" and gets incremented twice -- because ofc the property/attribute thing matters < 1288420691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yes, i figured it out < 1288420692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see below :) < 1288420698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, yeah, so < 1288420700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4+2 = 6 < 1288420709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put the celebratory "t!" in, no point incrementing bx < 1288420712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it still points at the t < 1288420720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add [bx+si],al == add [bx], al < 1288420731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :al is a leftover from the floppy read, it's the number of kernel sectors < 1288420733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i have set to 64 < 1288420735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*62 < 1288420736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus it's < 1288420738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add [bx], 62 < 1288420740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single cycle < 1288420743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bx points to the t characters < 1288420747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, flickery character fun < 1288420755 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288420775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: now i make things more fun < 1288420784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: why fill the floppy with zeroes when you can fill it with /dev/urandom? < 1288420807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it... inexplicably does the same thing < 1288420829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that means there's something wrong with where I'm jumping to, doesn't it. < 1288420942 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1288420961 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fill it with 55's or something < 1288420992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah it's doing exactly what 0 did all the time, so, my read is going wrong < 1288421007 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you check the error code? < 1288421013 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait well you do retry < 1288421014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: nope :) < 1288421016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1288421019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do check the carry < 1288421022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int 13h < 1288421022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jc load ; try again < 1288421041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: http://sprunge.us/LITK < 1288421043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my current code < 1288421234 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it prints 2 "o"'s < 1288421235 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1288421251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yep < 1288421253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "boot!" < 1288421254 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will try indefinitely it seems like < 1288421257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the t goes all whoaaaaa < 1288421263 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: so the read is succeeding < 1288421266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just not going where i want somehow! < 1288421310 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1288421314 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: note how I never set ah to 0x02 < 1288421326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's been succeeding... at resetting the disk, with a bunch of non-options < 1288421336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: btw, do you think "mov ah, fooh" is also acceptable? < 1288421341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it is < 1288421347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i need confirmation, you see < 1288421360 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... what was the story with $ again < 1288421375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it... is unreliable < 1288421379 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x is really no better than 00h, i've decided < 1288421383 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if $ is wonky < 1288421384 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care < 1288421390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: db $55,$AA doesn't work < 1288421395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: sometimes lowercase doesn't work < 1288421396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uppercase does < 1288421397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1288421417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yay, it now boots properly < 1288421427 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying "make test" a lot proves that different, boring stuff happens each time < 1288421433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: haha "Booti" < 1288421444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[blue on yellow "b"][teal on grey "o"]ot! < 1288421466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu: fatal: Trying to execute code outside RAM or ROM at 0x27b92952 < 1288421493 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wish i could set "unreliable floppy" in qemu :) < 1288421494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooooooot! < 1288421515 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1288421534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ? < 1288421540 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh different boring stuff ok < 1288421548 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hallu! < 1288421553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: well it's vaguely fun actually < 1288421558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i can tar it up if you want to experience THE FUN < 1288421580 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm good! also i can build from your source < 1288421591 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but your awesome makefile < 1288421593 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot < 1288421597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah. < 1288421598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288421602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: two makefiles actuall < 1288421603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*actually < 1288421608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: and i de-awesomed them < 1288421615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just recursive make now < 1288421632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boèt! < 1288421649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boon! < 1288421655 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oot < 1288421658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* oot! < 1288421699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :æoot! < 1288421701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you are SO missing out < 1288421711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288421715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one displays semi-complex behaviour < 1288421777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: http://filebin.ca/jdpamz/floppy.img < 1288421780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: try this (qemu -fda) < 1288421789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: WOW! it's semi-random < 1288421795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpressey: changes on each boot < 1288421804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, huh < 1288421807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *did* morph the b the first time < 1288421810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's always the ! < 1288421812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very interesting < 1288421912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sub: We don't put lettuce or tomatoes on a BLT unless specifically asked to sir, it's company policy not to unless it's requested by the customer." < 1288421939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: MY BOOT SECTOR IS SHORTER THAN YOUR BOOT SECTOR (it isn't actually, but it has diagnostics!) < 1288421984 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey whoa, I just left myself logged in and now I stumble upon boot sector golf? < 1288422017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: oh hell yeah. < 1288422028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: technically, no, just me writing a boot sector < 1288422034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: HERE 'TIS: http://sprunge.us/WMIV < 1288422038 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I almost don't want to know how we got to this point. *refrains from reading log* < 1288422045 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: i decided to write a boot sector < 1288422051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used catseye's for uh < 1288422052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clues < 1288422069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine has diagnostic output and his doesn't, also it tries forever and his doesn't < 1288422071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally cooler < 1288422078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: if your floppy drive is really REALLY incomprehensibly slow you could get < 1288422080 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boooooot! < 1288422085 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "; here we go". < 1288422095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boo(o for each time it retries)t! < 1288422108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: it's a long jump off a short pier < 1288422129 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Truer words were never spoken of bootloaders. < 1288422148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: but hey, it *is* miniscule! < 1288422195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: 151 bytes, it seems (plus a ton of zeroes, plus the two byte bootable signature) < 1288422323 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: downloaded your img file < 1288422331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: qemu -fda hallu < 1288422341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that fun < 1288422344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... semi-interesting < 1288422352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff happening constantly and then another thing happening every N < 1288422358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the kind of thing you expect from /dev/urandom < 1288422390 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i don't have qemu yet. only bochs, and that will be a pain < 1288422417 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so, building ghc, installing netbsd to a usb stick AND building bochs < 1288422421 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*qemu < 1288422462 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storkbot: tl moo < 1288422462 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oo < 1288422475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: bochs should work < 1288422478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: you have a command for it in befos < 1288422487 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey yes i do < 1288422594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh < 1288422597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it doesn't do the fun stuff though < 1288422601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no < 1288422604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: that was with my working image < 1288422612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: holy shit bochs is slow :) < 1288422616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00017311310i[CPU0 ] BOUND_GdMa: fails bounds test < 1288422623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's outputting one of them every cycle even when the bootloader is running < 1288422625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what that means? < 1288422627 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sbin/shutdown: You must be in the / directory to run /sbin/shutdown. < 1288422634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...awesome < 1288422641 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>PANIC<< dlopen failed for module 'x': Shared object "libSM.so.6" not found < 1288422641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I guess 'cause . could get unmounted. < 1288422646 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate you bochs you suck now < 1288422647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: try sdl < 1288422647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wx < 1288422653 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah this shit < 1288422667 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes ... and shutdown could just chdir() before doing that ... < 1288422695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your mom could just chdir :P < 1288422729 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now now, let's be civil. < 1288422736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Your FACE is uncivil. < 1288422743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh it's just what happens when you spew crap at bochs heh < 1288422748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: just use qemu, it does the fun stuff. < 1288422754 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I got it to boot! oo coloury t < 1288422769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's awesome in qemu because it goes all nice and flickery! < 1288422771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like RAINBOWS < 1288422783 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/usr/pkg/share/x11-links/lib/:$LD_LIBRARY_PATH" bochs -q 'boot:a' 'floppya: 1_44=floppy.img, status=inserted' ftw < 1288422818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: in bochs it just sits there spewing debug < 1288422818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1288422820 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, I just got out of an hour-long conversation, largely in French, with a guy I barely knew from high school, and of all things he ended up hitting on me. :P < 1288422822 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a feeling i'm going to be all about the environment variables being all slutty, here in NetBSD land... < 1288422850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: thats cuz french is gay duh < 1288422875 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, French is "anything that moves". < 1288422884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: and most things that don't < 1288422890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: also: striking < 1288422897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine the language goes on strike and suddenly you can't write books any more < 1288422911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: white flag, how many stereotypes have i got left now? < 1288422914 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah. Absolutely. < 1288422955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: yeah $ is not worky < 1288422960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: dw $foo always says symbol foo is undefined < 1288422993 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that a young bisexual man assumes that every other young bisexual man he meets logically wants to exchange nude pictures online? Am I the only 19-year-old who doesn't want to sleep with every person at every chance I get? < 1288423011 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is totally off-topic, sorry. < 1288423012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1288423018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: No.) < 1288423022 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. < 1288423038 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Still darn, because there seem to be few to none around me.) < 1288423057 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: But there is the stereotype of bisexual = sluttiness... < 1288423067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably more than a few people claim to be bisexual just because, well, anything that moves. < 1288423168 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, which really gets on my nerves. Just because *they* have an overactive sex drive doesn't mean *I* ought to be considered a slut for simply associating with them. < 1288423183 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHTEOUS IDNIGNATION okay I'm done. < 1288423199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah nobody gives a shit :p < 1288423202 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so righteously indignant that I couldn't even type properly. < 1288423203 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1288423236 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also inadvertently came out to an esoteric programming language IRC channel, but I don't exactly give a damn. < 1288423260 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a third of a damn. < 1288423265 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people keep thinking there is a topic here? < 1288423300 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say there's a topic per se, but there is presumably a shared interest lurking somewhere. < 1288423302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: lol @ this idea of "coming out" < 1288423309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why is it that a young bisexual man assumes that every other young bisexual man he meets logically wants to exchange nude pictures online? Am I the only 19-year-old who doesn't want to sleep with every person at every chance I get? <-- because you're talking to the entirely wrong young bisexual men :P < 1288423318 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because *everywhere* is backwards enough to think that people are straight by default! < 1288423335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everywhere makes a big deal about not being straight ESPECIALLY ON THE INTERNET WHERE WE ARE ALL WHOLESOME HETEROSEXUALS < 1288423343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidenot: Wholesome Heterosexuals -- band name. < 1288423393 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I'm "out" in the sense that if it comes up, I'll be honest, and if I find a male attractive, I'll ask him if he's interested in menfolk. It tends to really take people by surprise. < 1288423396 0 :aloril!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288423410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: WELCOME TO AMERICA < 1288423461 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You try finding the entirely right *anybody* if you're dealing with a group that's negatively stereotyped and almost deserves it. < 1288423485 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Screw it, I'm moving to Canada in a couple of years anyway. < 1288423497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sidenote: If you're seeking out specifically *bisexual* men, rather than bisexual or gay men, aren't you bisexualsexual, not bisexual? < 1288423500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or X=Xsexual... < 1288423555 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if you're only seeking out bisexual *men*, you're homobisexualsexual. < 1288423577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :keanu < 1288423579 0 :keanu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...whoa. < 1288423582 0 :keanu!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1288423603 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1288423624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think we need parentheses. < 1288423629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(homo,bisexual)sexual < 1288423635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that it? < 1288423636 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1288423639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :homo(bisexual)sexual? < 1288423644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAA THE CONFUSION < 1288423666 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would really resent requiring a *tuple* to describe my sexual orientation. < 1288423666 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now find the word for a man who is attracted only to heterosexual, homophobic men. < 1288423678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Republican < 1288423683 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: That's because describing sexual orientation is ridiculous. < 1288423684 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288423686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott++ < 1288423713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just agree to stop talking, nothing can possibly top that < 1288423714 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it surely is. < 1288423724 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm working on a language. < 1288423734 0 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-fe7ef900-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1288423735 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might get done this weekend. < 1288423750 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: WELL I'M WORKING ON AN OS AND IT HAS BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS < 1288423760 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is trumped.
< 1288423791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: It even has a fuckin' BOOTLOADER. < 1288423792 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckin' A. < 1288423801 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckin' A:. < 1288423813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peter Gibbons: This isn't so bad, huh? Makin' bucks, gettin' exercise, workin' outside. < 1288423813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lawrence: Fuckin' A. < 1288423813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Peter Gibbons: [nods] Fuckin' A. < 1288423813 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry, it just sorta slipped out. < 1288423880 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately this idea is sort of messing with my head... < 1288423948 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a totally naive and terrible way of describing it would be to say "everything is a type". < 1288423958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: oh, Oleg: The Language < 1288423969 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: and if you don't know who oleg is: http://okmij.org/ftp/ < 1288423980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is possibly the smartest computer scientist alive today. < 1288423985 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not that, the most diverse, by far. < 1288423991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: and he does everything. in the type system < 1288423999 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I see. < 1288424007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he could write my operating system in the type system. < 1288424009 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I love this man. < 1288424055 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1288424066 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Object-Oriented programming is a harmful methodology" < 1288424068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone's gay for oleg. even republicans < 1288424090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: he says such controversial things but then smooth-talks you into agreeing with it. also: he has tons of OOP-related stuff on there anyway :P < 1288424097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly implementations of OOP in [unlikely place] < 1288424114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: it's probably better using the categories rather than the what's-new < 1288424144 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So I see. But luckily I seem to already share in his controversial thinking. < 1288424148 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Object-oriented is not good for everything. Some people think it is. But actually it is good only for a few things. < 1288424159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i've never been too enamoured with oop. < 1288424202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: "object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing." --Rob Pike < 1288424261 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Right, as with anything. I'm not saying OOP is a bad concept, but it's definitely a bad philosophy. < 1288424272 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288424327 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, I believe you. < 1288424495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people disagree about many things in programming. I have some opinions also different than others. < 1288424555 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Disagreement is necessary to keep the field lively. < 1288424604 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find bitwise operations useful; I find preprepreprocessor useful; I have written various things; I have used many programming languages (including Forth). < 1288424662 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHCi, version 6.12.3: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help < 1288424664 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00tness < 1288424676 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So, am I talking to a bot, or not?) < 1288424682 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, I have written this, see what you can understand of it: *p++=((charset[b*14+a]>>x)<<7)|c; You probably cannot understand due to lack of context. < 1288424698 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288424713 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288424715 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing has meaning without context. < 1288424735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These days I write programs in Enhanced CWEB, mostly. < 1288424779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHCi, version 6.12.3: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/ :? for help < 1288424784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: now haskell platform! < 1288424791 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1288424804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then, uh, if you have no cabal(1), fetch cabal-install from the interwebs < 1288424818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: then after the first "cabal update" or whatever it is edit the config file and enable haddock or documentation or whatever the flag is called < 1288424827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "cabal install foo" as non-root *should* work fine and install docs too < 1288424831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: haskell platform is easy < 1288424834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just configure gmake gmake install < 1288424842 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1288424880 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how "configure make make install" is the "next next finish" of the *nix world. < 1288424906 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: *gmake, catseye is on NETBSD! < 1288424908 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i forced him to < 1288424910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: how goes the usb < 1288424920 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: What if I told you what the variables meant: 'p' is a pointer into video memory. 'b' is a character number. 'a' is a row number. 'x' is a loop counter (actually a unrolled loop). 'c' is a color code. < 1288424937 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I said "make" deliberately to provoke a reaction. And it worked. :) < 1288424970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (So, am I talking to a bot, or not?) < 1288424970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288424985 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Have since realised. < 1288424987 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is pretty much done, i would need to reboot to test it obviously < 1288424995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: i totally want it tomorrow < 1288424997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for now < 1288425000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOODNIGHT GOOD/BAD SIRS < 1288425004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(evil sirs?) < 1288425011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vorkit sirso < 1288425014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodnight; bye < 1288425016 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night. < 1288425017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288425029 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Can you understand the code now, that I told you what each variable means? < 1288425057 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You're setting a pixel in video memory, given a character and font data? < 1288425104 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, I am doing that. But can you see how the colors work? < 1288425234 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It looks like you're killing the last few bits of the character data by shifting them away then shifting zeros in their place, and replacing them with the colour code. < 1288425242 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of hard to tell. < 1288425375 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notes: This is a paletted video mode, with 256 colors. The 'c' is a PC text video color code (for example, 0x07 is gray on black). b=e[y*80+x].character; c=e[y*80+x].color&video_mem.flash_state; The 'video_mem.flash_state' can have two possible values. Can you guess what they are? < 1288425539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The flash_state can easily be switched between those two values by a bitwise XOR operation.) < 1288425599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1288425600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1288425671 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flashing if the hight bit is set, I'd guess. < 1288425672 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And note that the color code is eight bits long! (Like the DOS screen, bit0-bit3 is foreground, bit4-bit6 is background, and bit7 indicates blinking) < 1288425675 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*high < 1288425696 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evincar: Yes, it flashes if the high bit is set, the same as the PC text video. < 1288425731 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully you can now figure out how the palette is initialized and what the values of 'flash_state' are, from this information. < 1288425799 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I can't spend the effort to think about this right now. I ought to be in bed. :P < 1288425799 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Hint: The palette has many duplicate colors) < 1288425867 0 :evincar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Immediately bedtime, sorry all. < 1288426074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read up to chapter 27 in TeX: The Program, and I have already found many things which could be improved. Some of it is probably due to the limitations of Pascal, although there are other things, too. < 1288426353 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: 0110100110010110 < 1288426632 0 :storkbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288427395 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288429005 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288429409 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288429432 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288430070 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://superdickery.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=28%3Asuperdickery&id=66%3Alana-and-lois-owned&Itemid=54 I loled. < 1288432834 0 :FireyFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1288433114 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288434480 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288434493 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288435282 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288435288 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-1.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288435635 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SheldonCooperPhD < 1288435646 0 :SheldonCooperPhD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1288435695 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SheldonCooperPhD < 1288435759 0 :SheldonCooperPhD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1288435858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SheldonCooperPhD < 1288436160 0 :SheldonCooperPhD!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :augur < 1288436723 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288436734 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288437217 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288437227 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288438326 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1288440327 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288440853 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288442744 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION attempts to upgrade Ubuntu by reinstalling from the ISO.
< 1288442747 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MAY NOT RETURN < 1288442802 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why not upgrade the normal way < 1288442809 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from inside the update manager thingy < 1288442821 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, because that takes about 7 years on my connection. < 1288442835 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, and the ISO didn't take about 7 years to download? < 1288442848 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did not, by virtue of Aria. < 1288442851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, besides not all packages will exist on the ISO probably < 1288442859 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aria being? < 1288442876 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something which seems so utterly insane one of us could have thought of it. < 1288442896 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, details? All google gives me is opera related stuff < 1288442904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can tell, it takes a list of mirrors and downloads from all of them simultaneously. < 1288442909 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288442922 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then drops any that fall behind. And fails routinely. < 1288442928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, then the limit is not your connection, but the mirrors you use < 1288442937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, it got me the ISO in about 10 minutes. < 1288442960 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, tried mirrors.kernel.org for your ubuntu package mirror? < 1288442972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is generally quite fast < 1288442979 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even from UK iirc < 1288443059 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the fact that I waited 20 days since it was updated could help... < 1288443082 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm? < 1288443113 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the last 2 dist upgrades I did were on the day the new version was released. < 1288443140 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, yeah that could explain stuff < 1288443178 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, mirrors.kernel.org manages to max out my connection easily. < 1288443250 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, wait, so it's a mirror of Canonical's APT repositories? < 1288443277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My download server is set to "Server for United Kingdom" at the moment. < 1288443300 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, mirrors.kernel.org mirrors lots of stuff. Kernels, arch packages, ubuntu packages, and quite a few other distros < 1288443311 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesyesyes. < 1288443323 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But how do I speed stuff up with it? < 1288443347 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using it in /etc/apt/sources.list < 1288443354 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is what I always did < 1288443387 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now a quandary. < 1288443434 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example line: deb http://mirrors.se.eu.kernel.org/ubuntu/ lucid-security main universe < 1288443445 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you likely want to change the se bit < 1288443451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really be bothered. < 1288443490 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Sweden should be fast for you too < 1288443539 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, anyway mirrors.kernel.org is geodns < 1288443544 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just using that should work fine < 1288443649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So just put "deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/ lucid-security main universe" into my sources.list? < 1288444337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well look in sources.list, see how it lists a number of different lines < 1288444339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all: < 1288444348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/ < 1288444358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the URL will be different for you currently < 1288444383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but what you need to do is replace the existing mirror on all lines with the new one. I couldn't copy all lines, would be a bit too long < 1288444404 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you have any lines referring to ddebs.ubuntu.com: leave those alone < 1288444425 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave any PPAs (ppa.launchpad.net) URLs alone too < 1288444532 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, wait, can't I just use Software Sources for that> < 1288444569 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, uh perhaps. I'm not used to the GUI ways < 1288444668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently, the fastest mirror from my computer is in France. < 1288444680 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mirrors.ircam.fr, apparently. < 1288444794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, heh < 1288444809 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION starts the upgrade.
< 1288444870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!wiki < 1288444950 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, download time is under an hour. < 1288447457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288449800 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288451153 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288451721 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288452638 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288453533 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288454427 0 :Quadrescence!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1288454545 0 :Quadrescence!~Quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence JOIN :#esoteric < 1288454713 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288454794 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1288454820 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288455598 0 :catseye!~catseye@99.96.163.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288456449 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288456654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:48:24 As fa04:48:24 As far as I can tell, it takes a list of mirrors and downloads from all of them simultaneously. < 1288456654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r as I can tell, it takes a list of mirrors and downloads from all of them simultaneously. < 1288456660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can configure it this insane way, but, no < 1288456677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:00:49 So just put "deb http://mirrors.kernel.org/ubuntu/ lucid-security main universe" into my sources.list? < 1288456680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use the gui configuration < 1288456715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fastest mirror detection is unreliable, use the swedish one :) < 1288456892 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming \def\msg#1{\immediate\write16{#1}} guess what output will be produced from these commands: < 1288456940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\message} \msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\noexpand} \def\qq{123} \msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\qq} % section 358 < 1288456995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First guess without trying it, and then read section 358 and 210 of TeX: The Program and then try to guess again. And then run these commands in TeX to see the actual response. < 1288457046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cliki.net/Clon THREE CLON PACKAGES < 1288457056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No idea, and I don't have that book. < 1288457117 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't have that book, you can read it on-screen by weaving the tex.web file (althoug you won't get many of the improvements in page formatting that the book has) < 1288457179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, if you have no idea here is another thiing you can try: Run these commands in TeX, and then see if you understand why you get the answers you do. < 1288457406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you guess this one: \setbox0=\vbox{\hrule width 42pt width 15pt} \msg{\the\wd0} < 1288457414 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288457439 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-7-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288457465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one: \catcode`8=11 \catcode`B=12 \count0=567890 \count1="4819 \count2="0B \count3="0b \msg{\the\count0} \msg{\the\count1} \msg{\the\count2} \msg{\the\count3} < 1288457518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one: \catcode`P=1 \dimen0=42PT \msg{\the\dimen0} < 1288457626 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you good at TeX? Or are you really bad at it? < 1288457724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I was away. < 1288457729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is the tex.web file? < 1288457749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should find a copy anywhere you can find TeX distributions. < 1288457833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can I not weave it, TeX it, and then view the resulting file? < 1288457891 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, I wouldn't expect that to work. < 1288457898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that not how the book was produced? < 1288457981 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The book is produced by weaving (the WEAVE program converts the WEB format to TeX format), and then converted to DVI by TeX. (There are likely other changes too; the book has footnotes that the on-screen view doesn't have.) < 1288458001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Then I could do that myself to get the book, minus the footnotes; are the footnotes important? < 1288458014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: Can I not weave it, TeX it, and then view the resulting file? < 1288458023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weave the tex.web file, run TeX on it, and view the result. < 1288458041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can weave it and TeX it and view the result with a DVI viewer, or print it. < 1288458057 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The footnotes are not that important, it is just a kind of short index. < 1288458087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: But you said you didn't expect that to work. < 1288458088 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288458091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you? < 1288458130 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I said I didn't expect it to work if you did it incorrectly. If you do it correctly, it should work. < 1288458159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was incorrect about what I was planning to do? I'll make sure not to do it :) < 1288458204 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many things that you can do wrong; just do WEAVE and TeX and then DVI and hopefully it should work, as long as you have the correct macro packages for WEB programs. < 1288458258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1288458264 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe most TeX distributions include the macro packages you need) < 1288458267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Do you know where I can obtain WEB? I have searched for it but I can only find CWEB. < 1288458283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have TeX, it probably includes WEB. < 1288458307 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Try to run the "tangle" and/or "weave" program) < 1288458319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I appear not to have TeX on this machine! I will install the Debian texlive package. < 1288458333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully that has WEB; if not, it'll be one of the subpackages, I guess. < 1288458608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would suggest using Enhanced CWEB for new programs, though. The Pascal WEB program is still useful for TeX and those old programs, though.) < 1288458648 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION WTFs at NuCaptcha
< 1288458657 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine having it be a video would be WORSE < 1288458679 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since a spambot might be able to determine which shapes are letters and which aren't < 1288458688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is NuCaptcha? < 1288458699 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nucaptcha.com < 1288458704 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advertising in captchas < 1288458714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is looking at http://www.nucaptcha.com/products/basic
< 1288458759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: they seem to animate the random stuff behind it too < 1288458763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also elements in the "scene" < 1288458769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably confuses a lot of stuff < 1288458778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, i could imagine detecting the outlines and using the extra frames to get a better estimate < 1288458840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found one that doesn't animate the background... < 1288458846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nucaptcha.com/products/engage/6 < 1288458876 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still prefer plain text CAPTCHA programs < 1288458893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Insert the following: Abcd < 1288458894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] < 1288458932 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be a bit more complex than that, depending on usage. < 1288458939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yay, I have TeX. < 1288458941 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also just have fields which say "please leave blank", or whatever. < 1288458973 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spambot programs probably don't understand the fields anyways, and will fill the form incorrectly. < 1288458987 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I saw a site with NuCaptcha, I /might/ just hunt down the webmasters and brutally kill them. < 1288459005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ditto. < 1288459040 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selecting from a dozen animals would probably be more effective < 1288459047 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for a while < 1288459054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Of course, it's trivially easy to fight off non-site-specific spambots: Hide, with CSS, an input tag with name="email" somewhere; whether by display: none (risky), visibility: hidden, opacity: 0, positioning it far away (Google doesn't like this though), etc. < 1288459073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But everyone's egotistical enough to think their site will get special treatment if they do that :) < 1288459088 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Oh, and server-side, just refuse to post whenever the email field is filled, of course. < 1288459092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's pretty brilliant actually X-D < 1288459101 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if someone's browser autofills it in? < 1288459103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's filled after you give three warnings and a refusal to post, ban the IP for so long or whatever. < 1288459109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Their browser is made of fail. < 1288459127 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine Opera doing that (on user request) < 1288459132 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On user request. < 1288459137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So have it say "don't do that" on the warning page. < 1288459137 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, I have seen that. And then, hide also the text that goes with it "Please leave it blank", so that if CSS is disabled, you can still understand it < 1288459144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes, indeed. < 1288459174 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when Spambots become able to understand CSS? < 1288459225 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other ways are simply using protocols other than HTTP and SMTP, such as Gopher and Telnet. < 1288459254 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You can just do other things such as keep the fields visible < 1288459259 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when Spambots become able to understand Gopher? < 1288459278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds less useful < 1288459278 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that day is coming < 1288459287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What happens when Spambots become able to understand CSS? < 1288459290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlikely. < 1288459305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's very hard to understand what's what with a CSS page; just ask Gregor. < 1288459309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spambots would have to do even more reasoning. < 1288459313 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did display:none on a big website, using that techinque, it did *not* work. < 1288459326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: That's why you don't use display: none. < 1288459335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Also, big website = someone coded it in manually. < 1288459338 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, I mean it's very easy to parse. < 1288459345 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not big enough for that. < 1288459356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Then use visibility:hidden or any number of things. < 1288459363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, a lot of fields might be "fake", only with the real fields filled in by JS. < 1288459366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they'd have to understand JS. < 1288459373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by now the spammers have all shot themselves. < 1288459376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of horror. < 1288459378 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only 100k visits per week. Which is not very much for spammers to consider making rules for it. < 1288459385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Velmont: Then use visibility:hidden or any number of things. < 1288459386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288459387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gopher and Telnet protocols likely that if there are any spambots there will be very few, if any. These are uncommon protocols for the things that spambots are intended to post messages to. < 1288459396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Wait, did you use inline CSS? < 1288459404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Obviously put it in a linked stylesheet. < 1288459408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With @import, even, if you can manage that. < 1288459416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're very unlikely to slog through that. < 1288459418 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hmm. Don't think so. Maybe I did. I can check the git log. < 1288459441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: I would be *astonished* if spambots actually read linked CSS files, looked at all the selectors, and figured out whether it hid the field they're looking at. < 1288459447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: After all, there are far bigger targets... < 1288459455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, well, far MORE targets. < 1288459463 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any spambots post ZIP quines anywhere? < 1288459470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I... doubt that < 1288459642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZIP quines? < 1288459662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: x = zip({'x': x}) < 1288459671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unzip(x) == {'x': x} < 1288459692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can zip a dict? < 1288459708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288459721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I EXPRESSED IT IN THE CLEAREST WAY POSSIBLE AND YOU CAN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND A DIRECTORY TREE < 1288459724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>____< < 1288459759 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also a GZIP file that when uncompressed, makes a file that is the same as the compress file concatenated by itself < 1288459804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What zzo38 said was clearer, but I don't think equiv. to what elliott said < 1288459806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Nice. < 1288459815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: X.ZIP CONTAINS THE FILE "X.ZIP" < 1288459819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happy? < 1288459840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1288459868 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is a ZIP file which contains both a picture file and a copy of the ZIP file. < 1288459870 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like twice as cool as a quine program < 1288459875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://research.swtch.com/2010/03/zip-files-all-way-down.html < 1288459892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: it's great, it uses the fact that the zip decompressor is basically a simple sub-tc machine, with instructions and all < 1288459915 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The CSS was in the included stylesheet. So it was not inline. < 1288459926 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Then I'm inclined to blame something else entirely :) < 1288459934 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you make a captcha off of this? < 1288459935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Was the class called "hidden" or something? < 1288459943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ...of recursive zip files? < 1288459944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't. < 1288459951 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nope, "kode". < 1288459953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what was "ZIP Captcha"? < 1288459961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Hmm. What was the markup? < 1288459967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Who said that? < 1288459969 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure you can! "Upload recursive zip file here (one I haven't seen before):" < 1288459978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I was thinking about that :) < 1288459982 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do any spambots post ZIP quines anywhere? < 1288459984 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1288459986 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, compuers might be better at it than us < 1288459986 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh < 1288460004 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Just the same as the other fields. It had to know that it was disabled. So I think they read CSS. < 1288460005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION faceplants
< 1288460013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Was it display:none? < 1288460020 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1288460023 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should have to beat the captcha at chess! < 1288460031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Bet visibility:hidden would have worked. :) < 1288460036 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Or even opacity:0; z-index: -34859758345893473 < 1288460041 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, that's also something where they kick our asses, huh. < 1288460050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For both of those, relative-positioning the next field on top of it or whatever.) < 1288460060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just having it at the end, but maybe super-clever spambots won't be fooled by that. < 1288460073 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to the "identify this farm animal" captcha idea
< 1288460094 0 :Velmont!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They are just as easy to have a test for. - But I don't know how they got around it, but anyway, they can't do the STATIC captcha we're using now(!), but they did in fact spam a lot with the hidden field. < 1288460105 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: What if you do not know the names for all of the animals in English, or if the picture has bad lighting? (Or, if images are disabled?) < 1288460109 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Just as easy, but not nearly as common. < 1288460121 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it could be by sound! < 1288460126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: Besides, opacity:0 may be some magic UI trick and hovering over it would show the field ;) < 1288460128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Velmont: But meh. < 1288460137 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should translate from all human languages. < 1288460140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: You could have sound disabled, too. < 1288460164 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it could be by smell! < 1288460166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also possible the user has never seen a farm or any of the animals. < 1288460175 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps we are not quite that advanced yet. < 1288460201 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The nice thing about r.gz is that even broken web browsers that ordinarily decompress downloaded gzip data before storing it to disk will handle this file correctly! < 1288460203 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, maybe this won't work. < 1288460209 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION scraps his patent application
< 1288460212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^surround by quotes < 1288460214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yay, I have tex.pdf now. < 1288460231 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So, it works now? < 1288460248 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Well, I appear to have TeX: The Program: The Footnoteless edition, so yes. < 1288460256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are the footnotes not part of tex.web? :) < 1288460272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Oh, dear; it has not changed the code references into hyperlinks. < 1288460300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Is that an Enhanced CWEB-only feature or something? :-) < 1288460337 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I assume the reason the footnotes are not there is because Knuth used a modified macro package, perhaps? < 1288460345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps. < 1288460364 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :wareya < 1288460415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Changing code references to hyperlinks is done by CWEB (Enhanced CWEB does it as well, since it is based on CWEB); I think there was no PDF format when WEB was designed. < 1288460455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You might be able to make hyperlinks in WEB by modifying the webmac.tex file) < 1288460646 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At first try to guess the output of \msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\message} \msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\noexpand} \def\qq{123} \msg{\expandafter\meaning\noexpand\qq} < 1288460673 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then read section 358 and 210 and then guess again. And then run it and see if you guess correctly. < 1288460782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: So what should I do with my OS Now? :) :P < 1288460786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I will in a minute. < 1288460791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thereabouts. < 1288460857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See if you can find things which can be improved. (I read up to chapter 27 and I already found many things that could be improved, much of it probably having to do with limitations of Pascal; which can be improved in C) < 1288461182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, C question, I always forget this one: is *x++ the same as (*x)++ or *(x++)? < 1288461281 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *x++ will get the value and increment the pointer < 1288461289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1288461292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so *buf++ = foo is what i want < 1288461297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *base256(char *buf, uint32_t n) < 1288461297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1288461298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while (n) { < 1288461298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *buf++ = n % 256; < 1288461298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n /= 256; < 1288461298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1288461299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm not sure what the order of *(x++) ends up as < 1288461300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return buf; < 1288461302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1288461304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1288461315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well presumably *x then x is incremented... < 1288461331 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah probably, but it looks so strange written that way ;P < 1288461343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (i = 0; i <= 4294967295; i++) { < 1288461344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MWAHAHA < 1288461352 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, MAX_INT? < 1288461356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288461356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I use uint32_t < 1288461363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's definitely that value < 1288461364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah MAX_UINT < 1288461368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think there's a UINT32_MAX. < 1288461375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and on platforms with 64-bit int? < 1288461378 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there is iirc, if you use stdint.h < 1288461390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so there is < 1288461391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1288461402 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that blog post about recursive zip crcs has inspired me to write a program to find a base-256 32-bit integer whose crc is itself) < 1288461427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1288461469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you want to format that uint32_t the C standard says you should use one of the defines from < 1288461483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they look quite bulky though < 1288461494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288461515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I OPTOMISED my base256 function: http://sprunge.us/RFNZ < 1288461527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Reason: I want to zero out the buffer even if the result is small.) < 1288461533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And OPTOMISE!) < 1288461543 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, they are used like: printf("%" PRIu32 "\n", your_unit32); < 1288461544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Two or more, use a four, you fucking bum!" --Dijkstra, rolling in his grave < 1288461547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: lovely < 1288461549 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, yeah, bulky < 1288461553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: uint32? < 1288461555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unit < 1288461558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to the last unit? < 1288461562 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :P < 1288461565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(heh, i typo'd your typo and it became correct) < 1288461595 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: why are you not using shifts < 1288461602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: oh touche, i can do that can't i < 1288461609 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you must OPTOMISE < 1288461616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: wait, for the divides sure, that's just >> 8 < 1288461618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even gcc -O1 turns % into shifts when possible < 1288461619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but what about the modulo? < 1288461624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes < 1288461628 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean a bitmask :P < 1288461629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1288461632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've confused myself < 1288461634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh indeed < 1288461638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288461640 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& < 1288461641 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1288461642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, you know what, I'm looping through 4 billion freakin' values here < 1288461645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to hand-optimise < 1288461647 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway *the compiler does this for you* < 1288461650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a 20 line program :P < 1288461654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't trust gcc < 1288461658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not trusting gcc has served me well < 1288461664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in programs designed to process 4 billion items of data < 1288461666 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why are you not using clang!? < 1288461686 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches the Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear
< 1288461698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It makes sense to use bitshifts if that is a better model of what you're *actually doing*, though. < 1288461706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh yeah, n & 255! < 1288461713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a >>=? < 1288461717 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n >>= 8 < 1288461719 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yeah what is this? i just saw a poster < 1288461721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me there's a >>=. < 1288461724 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess google will know < 1288461725 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I think you can use >>= < 1288461731 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google knows all < 1288461740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert are mocking Glenn Beck with ridiculous extravaganza, organising a satirical sally today. < 1288461754 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I, too, use bitwise operations a lot) < 1288461765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: It makes sense to use bitshifts if that is a better model of what you're *actually doing*, though. <-- well yes < 1288461776 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, but when it isn't that, don't :P < 1288461785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: (In response to Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor rally.) < 1288461786 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is there a >>=? <-- yes < 1288461789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1288461791 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288461794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a >>= however < 1288461794 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1288461800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: (of August 28) < 1288461816 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, mock rally thing with Jon Stewart and Colbert < 1288461821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, rally for sanity < 1288461825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not supposed to be political < 1288461836 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *Rally to Restore Sanity and/or Fear < 1288461850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The merging of the Rally to Restore Sanity and the March to Keep Fear Alive.) < 1288461858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: omg my code can be OPTOMISED even more < 1288461860 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't need to shift it < 1288461864 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh? < 1288461866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i just need my bitmasks to be that little bit higher up < 1288461867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255 < 1288461869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255<<8 < 1288461871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :255<<8<<8 < 1288461871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1288461875 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1288461877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1288461879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no? < 1288461887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *buf++ = n & 255; n >>= 8; < 1288461887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *buf++ = n & 255; n >>= 8; < 1288461887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *buf++ = n & 255; n >>= 8; < 1288461887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *buf++ = n & 255; n >>= 86; < 1288461889 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I need to see context to have any clue wtf you just meant < 1288461893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that second one can easily be & 65280 right? < 1288461895 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :86 bits? < 1288461904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: see the above code < 1288461907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1288461909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :86 is a typo < 1288461910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that < 1288461912 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1288461923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i can just change 255 to 255<<8 and so on in the next ones, can't I? < 1288461927 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get rid of the shifts < 1288461930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think shifting a 32-bit integer by more than 32 bits is undefined behaviour btw < 1288461941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do that < 1288461942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1288461944 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that shouldn't work < 1288461951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not? < 1288461976 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if buf is char* and then 255<<8 will be out of range of char < 1288461976 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and well hm, is this the CRC code? < 1288461984 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need to shift to get the right byte value to store in buf < 1288461985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you will just get zero < 1288462028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, the crc code was generated for me < 1288462033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's primarily a big-ass table :) < 1288462033 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288462039 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I know. < 1288462041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big ass-table < 1288462049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh right < 1288462049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1288462054 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CRC is generally done with table lookup indeed < 1288462056 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And do they respond to obvious pandering?" < 1288462059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(n & 65280) >> 8 < 1288462065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably just as slow, right? :P < 1288462069 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, isn't base256() above the same as just copying the number into those bytes? < 1288462077 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Implementation-defined for unsigned ints, IIRC. < 1288462078 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. But, defined endianness! < 1288462088 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh right, you want this portable? < 1288462096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, no, I just want to be sure it works :) < 1288462106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And I can't imagine any *faster* way to do that, so, yeah. < 1288462111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION changes *buf++ to buf[0], buf[1] etc.
< 1288462116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if buf is a byte-size type I think the anding is completely superfluous, you can just shift and store < 1288462127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh, of course < 1288462128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks! < 1288462131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, #ifdef BIG_ENDIAN ... #elif defined(LITTLE_ENDIAN) ... #else #error "Screw you" #endif < 1288462159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>> x == / 2^x < 1288462163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps write a better error message, though. < 1288462168 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can byte-swap and store as words, which could be slightly more efficient < 1288462169 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so >>8>>8 == (/ 2^8) / 2^8 < 1288462187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I want >>16 < 1288462189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's just doubling < 1288462224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, or you could do some ifdef for endianness then use an union < 1288462224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there a gcc flag to INLINE EVERYTHING < 1288462244 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's an __attribute__(forceinline) < 1288462246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: is there a standard way to detect endianness? < 1288462248 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, there are some __attribute__ s to force a specific function to be inlined if possible < 1288462253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't expect C to define things that much! :) < 1288462267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I want to force even the functions that aren't mine... well, ok, really I just want the crc ones to be inline < 1288462268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "if possible" here basically means "I will ignore it if you try to force inlining a recursive function" < 1288462272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they're generated code so I'm scared to touch them :) < 1288462282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if they're perfectly readable. < 1288462309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm using a goto to keep my nesting down, am I a bad person? < 1288462314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: is there a standard way to detect endianness? <-- autoconf! *ducks* < 1288462316 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There is attributes and stuff, and flags to set how mucn inlining it should do, but to inline everything you can use chunks in Enhanced CWEB perhaps, or use include files and macros, or etc. < 1288462324 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using goto is not always bad < 1288462343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when it's totally unneeded? :-) < 1288462356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes < 1288462374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just puts the celebration in another function
< 1288462470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but, not autoconf :P < 1288462473 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh < 1288462479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck people not on little-endian right? < 1288462511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : union { < 1288462511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uint32_t i; < 1288462511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char s[4]; < 1288462511 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } x; < 1288462514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah, am I right? < 1288462515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not let the user do cc -DBIG_ENDIAN=1 if they want that < 1288462516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1288462518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1288462521 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be SLOW! < 1288462525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what < 1288462568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: can't use UNION MAGIC! < 1288462629 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why not use a byteswapping function for them then? There are generally fast asm ones < 1288462631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No manual entry for gcc < 1288462632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*blink* < 1288462642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But I don't care about portability :P < 1288462647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I did I wouldn't use assembly. < 1288462671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly why don't i have manpages < 1288462706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i A manpages-dev - Manual pages about using GNU/Linux for dev < 1288462711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1288462734 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck people not on little-endian right? Vorpal: But I don't care about portability :P < 1288462735 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, :P < 1288462742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Indeed. < 1288462760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so why not just asm all the way < 1288462764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, I needed gcc-doc. < 1288462770 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, gcc-doc for what < 1288462774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not very good at assembly. Hey, I wrote a bootsector yesterday, isn't that good enough? < 1288462775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For gcc(1). < 1288462778 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288462801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-finline-functions < 1288462802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH YEAH. < 1288462864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, good, I never call libc in my inner loop. < 1288462873 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -finline-functions < 1288462874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Integrate all simple functions into their callers. The compiler heuristically decides which functions are simple enough to be worth integrating in this way. < 1288462876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. I do 10 times per program (progress display), and whenever I find a collision. < 1288462877 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's it. < 1288462880 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Enabled at level -O3. < 1288462883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh. < 1288462890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about -finline-functions-called-once? :) < 1288462900 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want to make them static then < 1288462904 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it can't know < 1288462913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it can figure things out anyway. < 1288462915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Consider all "static" functions called once for inlining into their caller even if they are not marked "inline". If a call to a given function is integrated, < 1288462915 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then the function is not output as assembler code in its own right. < 1288462917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at the resulting assembly
< 1288462984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, inlining can be a pessimisation if the code path of that function can be skipped with an if and the other branch is taken most often < 1288462986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : call crc_update < 1288462989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DO NOT CALL THAT INLINING < 1288462990 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need profile feedback here < 1288462995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I need -fwhole-program to handle multiple C files or whatever? < 1288463013 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -combine -fwhole-program < 1288463062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : call crc_update < 1288463064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use Enhanced CWEB, and use chunks and then they will be surely inlined. Another way is C preprocessor macros for some things. < 1288463064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that isn't helping. < 1288463076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -O3 ? < 1288463092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1288463097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ gcc -Wall -S -O3 -combine -fwhole-program crc.c self.c < 1288463120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait. < 1288463122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need -o foo.s. < 1288463123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1288463141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1288463146 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now maybe it will work? < 1288463148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I need -o foo.s or it doesn't combine. < 1288463159 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shouldn't it combine in a.out < 1288463164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I used -S. < 1288463166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs
< 1288463169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1288463179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes obviously < 1288463183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (x.i % (UINT32_MAX / 10)) fputc('.', stderr); < 1288463185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: don't do this < 1288463198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is stupid. ever so slightl
< 1288463200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slightly < 1288463210 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fputc_unlocked < 1288463215 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wat < 1288463231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also, i meant more the fact that it spews .s everywhere when you run it, rather than ten times per program :) < 1288463235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bypasses thread safety locks in libc :P < 1288463238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy < 1288463240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1288463243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1288463255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. < 1288463259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why *doesn't* that work? < 1288463259 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well since you were going ridiculous anyway... < 1288463371 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why doesn't what work? < 1288463376 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (x.i % (UINT32_MAX / 10)) fputc('.', stderr); < 1288463381 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1288463386 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you think it should do? < 1288463399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print . ten times per program (the loop goes up to UINT32_MAX) < 1288463403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION 's brain is malfunctioning, it seems
< 1288463417 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a ! there I think < 1288463432 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you now *skip* it 10 times < 1288463437 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 == false < 1288463439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1288463444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1288463449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1288463476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: how fast do you think this will go then?! < 1288463477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1288463485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1288463485 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I have no idea < 1288463487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another dot already < 1288463489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is quick < 1288463495 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a few minutes maybe? < 1288463500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1288463516 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, it is not memory bound, it is CPU bound < 1288463517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: this is embarrassingly parallel it should be a dual-core program but i'm way too lazy for that :) < 1288463524 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything could be in cache < 1288463526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ xfce task manager calling it "sflf" < 1288463531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program is called self < 1288463535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you think it's called sflf. < 1288463536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1288463542 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what does ps aux say? < 1288463551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott 12555 99.2 0.0 3716 376 pts/0 R+ 18:30 1:16 ./self < 1288463551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott 12556 0.0 0.0 5364 632 pts/0 S+ 18:30 0:00 tee self_result < 1288463552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must've incremented the e. :p < 1288463555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's actually self_results) < 1288463575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm no collisions so far, this strategy isn't looking good < 1288463591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other things i'll try: reverse endianness? or perhaps a hex or whatever representation of the checksum? < 1288463597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe there are no collisions that short? < 1288463611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that "short"? I'm not looking for collisions per se < 1288463620 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you are looking for self-collision iirc? < 1288463622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm looking for crc32(x) being the base 256 interpretation of x < 1288463630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes, hash(x) = x more or less < 1288463639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: crc-32 i.e. 4 bytes by definition < 1288463644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. there are no "larger" self-collisions < 1288463649 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. I never disputed that < 1288463662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what you meant to say is maybe there's no collisions < 1288463669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps there are no such self-collisions < 1288463705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/code/crcllision$ ./self | tee self_results < 1288463706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................... < 1288463708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, that would be sad. < 1288463712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, it is trivial to construct a hash where there are none: h(x) = x + 1 % 256 for example has no self collisions < 1288463719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1288463724 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator precedence fail < 1288463732 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h(x) = (x + 1) % 256 < 1288463736 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1288463853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm those dots, more than ten eh? < 1288463882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :................................... < 1288463883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEEMINGLY < 1288463887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!(x.i % (UINT32_MAX / 10))) fputc('.', stderr); < 1288463903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, attach gdb and check what x.i is? < 1288463910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe you made an infinite loop < 1288463916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (x.i = 0; x.i <= UINT32_MAX; x.i++) { < 1288463920 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1288463922 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1288463923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have < 1288463924 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1288463933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, at least i know there's no collisions :) < 1288463939 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, -Wall -Wextra would probably warn you about it < 1288463944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (x.i = 0; x.i <= UINT32_MAX; x.i < UINT32_MAX && x.i++) { < 1288463946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behold my engineering skills < 1288463949 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"always true" or something < 1288463969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that loop is infinite too? except it will just stall at the end? < 1288463984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (x.i = 0; x.i <= UINT32_MAX; x.i < UINT32_MAX && break || x.i++) { < 1288463986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: joking) < 1288464004 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, out of interest: would that even compile? < 1288464009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1288464010 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, doesn't x.i start as 0 anyway? < 1288464014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just make it a while < 1288464035 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, unroll the first iteration < 1288464037 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then do: < 1288464042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (x.i != 0) < 1288464043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1288464044 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1288464045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1288464047 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a do while loop < 1288464049 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would work < 1288464052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah < 1288464053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1288464072 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm a genius. Just admit it. < 1288464077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly. < 1288464106 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I like how it DOESN'T EVEN WARN ME about that union awfulness. < 1288464117 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why would it? < 1288464126 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you mean that the C specs say you can't do that? < 1288464134 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, gcc accepts that, it is even documented < 1288464143 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is so common it is well supported < 1288464147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still... < 1288464149 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful :) < 1288464166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, reversing endianness wouldn't help I think. Since you test all possible bit patterns < 1288464183 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no collisions one way, no collisions the other way < 1288464201 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, because < 1288464206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always *check* the result of the hash < 1288464215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any change of endianness would just change *where* the collision shows up < 1288464217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never check it when the string that's fed is big-endian < 1288464218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the uh < 1288464223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe < 1288464230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, or, maybe not < 1288464231 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288464249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, do you check the hash against the uint? < 1288464255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1288464260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (crc32(x.s, 4) == x.i) < 1288464263 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah then perhaps it could affect stuff < 1288464274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never check abcd with the integer dcba < 1288464278 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a is a byte or whatever < 1288464280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get the idea < 1288464312 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, use arpa/inet.h and htonl(), with glibc that will give you an optimised asm swap < 1288464327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...lol < 1288464328 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: < 1288464337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (htonl(crc32(x.s, 4)) == x.i) < 1288464339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1288464689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also *OPTOMISED < 1288464723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, trademark infringement < 1288464735 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! trademark UTILISATION < 1288464747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he tells people who write terse OPTOMISED programs to use that terminology and the logo < 1288464752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we just use our very special dialect of terse < 1288464753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called C < 1288464756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OPTOMISED < 1288464847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called "Ter-C". < 1288464859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely! < 1288464863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's identical to C. < 1288464929 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you keep using that trademark. i do not think you know what it means" < 1288464948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: *i do not think it means what you think it means, no? < 1288464956 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right < 1288464964 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been a while since i last saw the movie :) < 1288465002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching it is on my infinitely long todo list < 1288465006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well, internet meme osmosis < 1288465009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably know half the lines because of that :p < 1288465016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, which movie? < 1288465023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Princess Bride < 1288465039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source of, like, half of every internet meme ever :P < 1288465041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: hyperbole!) < 1288465048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the other half being Sparta? < 1288465054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*300 < 1288465062 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes that was the name of that movie < 1288465063 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 is the source of exactly two, as far as I know. < 1288465075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(madness!/SPAAARTA and "tonight we dine in hell") < 1288465087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, *Tonight. We dine. IN HEEEEELLLL < 1288465092 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1288465122 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am writing a bash script! < 1288465132 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided I like pain. < 1288465140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: your MOM is a bash script < 1288465141 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, okay, are you using bashdoc (it's like doxygen for bash) < 1288465146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh snap) < 1288465146 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes it actually exists) < 1288465175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using doxygen should be punishable by death < 1288465181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or stabbing with rusty spoons < 1288465185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either is acceptable < 1288465187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*repeated stabbing < 1288465208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sourcemage.org/bashdoc SOURCEMAGE ENGINEERING FUCK YEAH < 1288465216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh wow < 1288465217 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm writing a bashdoc in C++ because I don't know bash." < 1288465219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... < 1288465222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will cherish this quote forever < 1288465224 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? where? < 1288465226 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I am using English sentences after #'s. < 1288465232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the bashdoc I saw for bash was written in bash < 1288465232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the bottom of http://www.sourcemage.org/bashdoc < 1288465237 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1288465238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm writing a bashdoc in C++ because I don't know bash." < 1288465241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... let that sink in < 1288465243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :absorb it < 1288465246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will become the WTF < 1288465255 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes I'm aware of it being a wtf < 1288465260 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the parser eh... < 1288465262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but there are many layers of wtf < 1288465265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to... meditate on it < 1288465268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes insane
< 1288465298 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION becomes the wtf
< 1288465299 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, must be a troll. It's a wiki < 1288465308 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Become the WTF you wish to see in the world. < 1288465327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nope, just an idiot < 1288465330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen many like them < 1288465332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trollish, that line, no < 1288465338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just... yes, i can picture who would do that < 1288465346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, brb booting netbsd! THIS WILL GO SPLENDIDLY I HATE YOU CATSEYE < 1288465354 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288465430 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# There is probably a better way to do this, in a real language. < 1288465450 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, or if there were disklabel bindings for bash < 1288465482 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, disklabel? < 1288465511 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: bsd command to edit BSD partitions on a disk. < 1288465512 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, I'm quite good at bash, in case you wonder about something < 1288465520 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, ah. right < 1288465524 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: thanks, i will keep it in mind < 1288465548 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, you tend to learn it when you write an irc bot in it after all < 1288465563 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I am using this pattern: DO='echo' < 1288465564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jon Stewart's apologizing for singing < 1288465573 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then $DO disklabel etc < 1288465587 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it all seems to work out i'll replace it with DO='sudo' < 1288465595 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah useful indeed < 1288465597 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288465712 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, worked? < 1288465760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no < 1288465775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: catseye's usb-fu is not yet refined enough < 1288465784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :9 days since last oerjan sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1288465808 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :9 days since last oerjan sighting | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D | May contain nuts. < 1288465930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place definitely contains nuts < 1288465932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cases for them, too < 1288465984 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. < 1288466138 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cases for the baskets < 1288466223 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How TF did the word "parse" be created? < 1288466233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: how TF did the word "fuck" be created? < 1288466247 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But "parse" seems like it has to be very new < 1288466251 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term parsing comes from Latin pars (ōrātiōnis), meaning part (of speech). < 1288466253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1288466262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In computer science and linguistics, parsing, or, more formally, syntactic analysis, is the process of analyzing a text, made of a sequence of tokens (for example, words), to determine its grammatical structure with respect to a given (more or less) formal grammar. Parsing can also be used as a linguistic term, especially in reference to how phrases are divided up in garden path sentences. < 1288466262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parsing is also an earlier term for the diagramming of sentences of natural languages, and is still used for the diagramming of inflected languages, such as the Romance languages or Latin. The term parsing comes from Latin pars (ōrātiōnis), meaning part (of speech).[1][2] < 1288466306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long has linguistics been around for? That people had an interest in it? < 1288466349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you realise that people adopt latin and greek terms to english all the time? < 1288466384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From Middle English pars, from Old French pars (plural of part), from Latin part." < 1288466390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. making-into-parts < 1288466397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used as making-into-parts (of speech) < 1288466485 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse-tition < 1288466507 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288466562 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: so why are you coding base256? if that is what you were OPTOMIZING before < 1288466572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: to find crc self-collisions < 1288466576 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1288466587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on that self-zip post, where he just brute-forced crc to find a zip file that, when you fill in that checksum, hashes to that checksum < 1288466771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, before the late 20th century, it was more usually called "philology"... (the change in term came along with an increase in rigor) < 1288466781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: And had been practiced for quite a while. < 1288467357 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-40-35.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288467384 0 :cheater99!~cheater@e181134164.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1288467400 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288467423 0 :Chachi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1288468608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God I hate US patent law. < 1288468614 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: 20% of the human genome is patented. < 1288468629 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making it illegal to for cells to mitose. < 1288468639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1288468651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: erm only humans can break the law i think :P < 1288468660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :causing cells to mitose, sure < 1288468665 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there some ruling against that? < 1288468670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Humans do so by living. < 1288468677 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or reproducing. < 1288468690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or caring for some life form. < 1288468692 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1288469368 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288469439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more TV Tropes related news! < 1288469457 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their AdSense support has been withdrawn! < 1288469489 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: why? :D < 1288469580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For having "adult and mature content" on AdSensed pages. < 1288469606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Adult and mature... text? < 1288469616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess Fetish Fuel is EVEN WORSE as a Troper Tales! < 1288469662 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, links to adult sites? Pages more explicit than the Fetish Fuel ones? < 1288469666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You know, I've always felt that TV Tropes has suffered an imbalance due to "Anime & Manga" coming first in the alphabetical list. < 1288469675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was "Manga & Anime" it'd probably be less weeaboo. < 1288469714 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it might also be due to manga and anime producing a *massive* volume of work. < 1288469733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, yeah, but... < 1288469742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's actual *work* to get to non-anime entries after you expand all. < 1288469747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think that's affected by the audience. < 1288469753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I mean, come *on*: http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/a/a8/Tvtropesanimeimbalance.png < 1288469759 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very probably. < 1288469920 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, the first page I sampled (Xanatos Roulette) looks fairly balanced. < 1288469971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That's *subjective*! < 1288469993 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, but I've zoomed out enough to see the relative sizes of sections! < 1288470008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, I mean, Xanatos Roulette. < 1288470030 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, it isn't. They haven't gone that far. < 1288470046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BUT THEY SHOULD < 1288470076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Administrivia/TheSituation < 1288470112 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Turn off anonymous editing in the wiki. This is so that we can tell Google, "See, we do have standards, and we can identify and take action against people who violate them." This has already been implemented.]] < 1288470113 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHA < 1288470146 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1288470151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A Donation Button is already set up if you'd like to throw some money at us directly." < 1288470153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For... ruining the site? < 1288470155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No thanks. < 1288470159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This may eventually include TV Tropes merchandise" < 1288470163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you and want you to die. < 1288470186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How dire is the situation, really? Is Tv Tropes going to have to shut down or cut way back?" < 1288470187 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, they disabled anonymous editing: it's RUINED FOREVER. < 1288470193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cut way back on all those needless expenses of RUNNING A PHP SCRIPT < 1288470205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Well, they won't see any more of my little fixes. :) < 1288470225 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, right, because we all know servers cost nothing to run. < 1288470225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"While it's a running gag that TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life, for many people it's equally true that TV Tropes Will Enhance Your Life." < 1288470232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fucking website. < 1288470240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No they don't. But they don't cost *significant* amounts if you're smart. < 1288470254 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That PHP script is probably really inefficient. The webserver too. < 1288470259 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288470272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cost of paying someone to optimise the fuck out of everyone <<< cost of running an inefficient website indefinitely. < 1288470298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I imagine it depends on /how/ inefficient < 1288470307 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C programs do run more efficiently than PHP programs. < 1288470309 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We're talking about TV Tropes, who have recently gone certifiably insane. < 1288470313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're running at the wrong computational order, definitely if you're at all large < 1288470325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just have the wrong constant factor, maybe not < 1288470339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Firstly, they started categorising tons of tropes as "subjective". This includes really universal ones, despite the fact that *every opinion on media is subjective*. < 1288470356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This also meant you weren't allowed to add to some pages or something, I forget exactly. < 1288470373 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, they are trying to cut down on the "This Troper" crap. < 1288470375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then they started moving pages -- well, at least one -- to Troper Tales, for no apparent reason other than maybe they don't like the main namespace. < 1288470392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some tropes are definitely objective < 1288470397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And as Phantom_Hoover just pointed out, they stopped people adding "This Troper" and the like to the pages which was *nice* and conversational and not at all wrong, even the original goddamn wiki did it. < 1288470417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Then Google dropped their ads and they've disabled anonymous editing and all sorts of crap and are whining about server costs. < 1288470433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, c2 is fun to read, but useless for getting actual information. < 1288470446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, TV Tropes is a SERIOUS INFORMATIONAL DATABASE < 1288470460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not at all something to read to brighten your day and maybe even learn something. < 1288470463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely not. < 1288470468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's practically an SQL table. < 1288470481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why did Google drop their ads? < 1288470486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "adult content" < 1288470498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: presumably there was a link to some nsfw site on one of the pages or something < 1288470502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1288470514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have thought Google were willing to advertise on such sites anyway < 1288470520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not < 1288470520 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, TV Tropes does actually have pretty NSFW pages in the main site. < 1288470524 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be evil OR unwholesome! < 1288470532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: text can't be nsfw, and i haven't seen any nsfw images < 1288470556 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "text can't be NSFW"... um, yes it can. Just not as blatantly. < 1288470558 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How odd, considering Google actually has adsense ads for NSFW sites. < 1288470559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I have no sympathy for them because they're making repeated stupid, bureaucratic, Wikipedia-esque "NPOV"-y decisions, disabling anonymous editing and then complaining about money. < 1288470567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, it really can't. < 1288470575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSFW is "If someone passed by you, they'd go '...'." < 1288470584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They haven't been audited by a human yet, apparently. < 1288470599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Motherfucker. < 1288470602 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway, it said "adult and mature content" in the first place, so drop the strawman. < 1288470609 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's retarded. < 1288470612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Positively retarded. < 1288470619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: people actually say ...? < 1288470624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they only did that in computer games < 1288470628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, shush :) < 1288470633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how it's pronounced
< 1288470641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's pronounced [blank stare] < 1288470670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's the awkward silence phoneme. < 1288470697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, in one of those RPGs that gives you a menu of what to say < 1288470705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should really be one that offers you a choice between ..., ???, and !!! < 1288470719 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for what it's worth, I've never really read TV Tropes for the discussions on the pages in the first place. < 1288470738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're one person. < 1288470755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was making a game "Super ASCII MZX Town Part II", maybe in one menu somewhere in the game I can make that choice < 1288470755 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sounds like the kind of thing Monkey Island would do. < 1288470776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so are you. < 1288470797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Some choice dialogue decisions from those: - Getting to choose how, exactly, to fumble your words and be unable to speak - Having the option of saying a variety of less-than-polite things that all end up saying the polite alternative < 1288470798 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll admit that the subjective stuff is going too far, though. < 1288470806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: There are more than a few who like discussions on pages... < 1288470838 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If needed, they could put discussions on a separate page, so you have the Article page and the Talk page, separate, which is how MediaWiki is designed to do. < 1288470880 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< zzo38> C programs do run more efficiently than PHP programs. < 1288470886 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how many ISPs charge by the cycle? < 1288470905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: "ISP"? how would they even know how many cycles you'd taken? < 1288470915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how many were relevant to their business? < 1288470916 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosting outfit, then < 1288470924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I was referring more to optimising CPU usage and RAM, but mainly compressing the hell out of the page source (inline the CSS, NO SPACES ZOMG, gzip to hell, etc.) < 1288470929 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hosting is an internet service! < 1288470930 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: CACHE EVERYYTHIIIIIIING < 1288470931 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also, your "ruined FOREVER" attitude to these changes is really irritating. < 1288470947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if you discovered that someone's BGP settings were sufficiently complex they were Turing-complete, you could run programs on the backbone routers < 1288470961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They have made an awful lot of terrible decisions in a short space of time. I don't feel terribly inclined to contribute there any more especially as I am no longer allowed tow ithout signing up for an account. < 1288470961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be awesome, but is a) unlikely to happen, and b) if it did happen, it would be unlikely anyone noticed < 1288470973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just because you can brand something as calling something "ruined FOREVER" doesn't mean it isn't actually. < 1288470974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, hosting outfit. I don't know if any do charge by the cycle, but regardless of what is charged, C programs are still generally run more efficiently (unless you are a bad programmer). < 1288470988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, i.e. filling two text fields and pressing a button. < 1288470990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAXING. < 1288471008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: OMG THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO OBJECTIONS TO DISABLING ANONYMOUS EDITING OTHER THAN THE MINIMAL EFFORT REQUIRED TO CREATE AN ACCOUNT < 1288471012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I never think of this obvious truth before?! < 1288471032 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the efficiency difference resulting in actually observable performance gains? < 1288471036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't see why you view it as evil. < 1288471037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION syntax weirds
< 1288471062 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to have forgotten that they need to police their content to get any money for the upkeep. < 1288471066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds like the "just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're out to get me" argument, which is both entirely correct, and not particularly useful except as a reminder < 1288471067 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I forgot. < 1288471084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://wakaba.c3.cx/shii/ is a good summary of why anonymity is a Good Thing. Anonymity enables drive-by edits without significant investment in the wiki, it is far more convenient, and there are many contributors who only want to fix one or two things, and who will now *not*. < 1288471088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The difference is observable. I have written a complicated C program that does many things, and it still runs much faster than a PHP program which simply copies part of a file. < 1288471091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also enables the forming of cliques as seen in many, many places. < 1288471098 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need money because they're IDIOTS who aren't as SMART as YOU, and as such they deserve everything they get. < 1288471098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you're just mocking me in lieu of rational argument, so forget it. < 1288471110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You sure take this personally. Bye. < 1288471124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "it sounds like X, X has property Y, therefore it has property Y" :) < 1288471147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Consider: "They removed the website and replaced it with a 404 page." "Yeah yeah you're just saying 'zomg ruined FOREVER'." "Yes. Yes I am." < 1288471222 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "ruined FOREVER" refers more to viewing ultimately fairly minor changes as if they have personally jumped up and down on your dog's face. < 1288471242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out Hoover isn't the same word as Hover. < 1288471253 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zuh? < 1288471284 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bweheheh. You can get Debian on a BDROM. < 1288471292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wut < 1288471295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what if they replaced it with a "temporarily unavailable" page, would it be ruined forever then? < 1288471297 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: 2 disks. < 1288471301 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no :P < 1288471302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh < 1288471304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I misread that as "BROOM", and thought it was entirely plausible < 1288471305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait what? < 1288471307 0 :tombom!tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1288471312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: debian is only 16 gigs of x86 sources < 1288471317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no x86 < 1288471321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it all architectures binaries or something? < 1288471328 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, single arch. < 1288471333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it have the entire APT archive on it? < 1288471335 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ??? x86 binaries are only 18 gigs < 1288471384 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Ubuntu's is on the order of 400GB. < 1288471430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Pretty sure it's larger than that... < 1288471442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :400GB is in range for a single hard drive atm, I think < 1288471446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nope < 1288471454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Citation? < 1288471459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://lists.canonical.org/pipermail/kragen-tol/2010-October/000928.html < 1288471467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Current Debian stable source (5.0.6) | 16.8GB | lots of free software | < 1288471467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | Debian i386 binaries | 18.5GB | same, but compiled | < 1288471467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |--------------------------------------+--------+-----------------------| < 1288471477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kragen is a pretty long-term debian user, so < 1288471491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It may also include the source debs. < 1288471503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 18.5 + 16.8 = 35.3 < 1288471513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that would fit on a single dual-layer blu-ray < 1288471519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess two single-layers may be cheaper, but that seems unlikely to me < 1288471532 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blu-ray burner. < 1288471542 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Single layers are much cheaper in that use case. < 1288471543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, binaries larger than source? that's rare < 1288471551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the binaries are a little smaller < 1288471555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, probably the source compresses better < 1288471563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not sure that's compiled < 1288471567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compressed < 1288471577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are .debs compressed? i forget whether it's a .tar or a .tar.gz inside < 1288471763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are compressed. < 1288471771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1288471787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't found that maximal set of Debian packages page yet. < 1288471795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd work it out, but I fear I'd have to use apt's API and *brr*. < 1288471798 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Does it HAVE an API?) < 1288471818 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an ar archive of: a version number, a metadata .tar.gz, and a data tar, tar.gz, tar.bz2, tar.lzma, or tar.xz. < 1288471834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288471849 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use `dselect' or `aptitude' for user-friendly package management. < 1288471851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- apt-cache < 1288471892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They still *have* dselect? < 1288471936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is there an aptitude equivalent of "apt-get source "? < 1288471951 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "aptitude source"? < 1288471960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems not. < 1288471963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Guess not. < 1288472006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing wrong with "apt-get source", of course (ha, rhymity), just thought if they're deprececacacating it. < 1288472018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not deprecated, it's just not the official package manager of the Debian project. < 1288472028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It is, instead, a lower-level tool, like dpkg. < 1288472041 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But true, I guess they might add that to aptitude and get rid of apt-* sometime in the future. < 1288472048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, apt-get and apt-cache, anyway. < 1288472315 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ @(normal.c@>= < 1288472320 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#undef ABNORMAL < 1288472328 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@; < 1288472332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ @(abnormal.c@>= < 1288472335 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define ABNORMAL < 1288472338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@; < 1288472403 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1288472428 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925351685.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1288472510 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: s/flute.ruree.net/ocarina.ruree.net/g < 1288474286 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is a natural-language esolang. < 1288474426 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, care to elaborate? < 1288474451 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's designed to be difficult to understand < 1288474477 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it designed to be difficult to understand? < 1288474510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks Mathnerd314 has a pretty shallow understanding of mathematics for his nick...
< 1288474536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288474539 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: obviously. otherwise I would have a more specific nick < 1288474560 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :cohomology < 1288474580 0 :cohomology!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :NewtonsMethod < 1288474587 0 :NewtonsMethod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could get ugly < 1288474626 0 :NewtonsMethod!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :octonion < 1288474633 0 :octonion!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprised this wasn't taken < 1288474648 0 :octonion!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Automorphism < 1288474652 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288474656 0 :Automorphism!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1288474681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Vertex < 1288474692 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :group < 1288474695 0 :group!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1288474696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :syrup < 1288474703 0 :syrup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syrupy automorphisms. < 1288474711 0 :group!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syrup: what kind of mathematics are YOU? < 1288474717 0 :syrup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Syrupy. < 1288474718 0 :syrup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1288474719 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you think of all these nicks? < 1288474719 0 :syrup!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :group. < 1288474721 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that mean? < 1288474723 0 :Vertex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Modularity_theor < 1288474733 0 :Modularity_theor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, because we are actual math nerds! < 1288474733 0 :syrup!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :arcane-sceptre < 1288474736 0 :arcane-sceptre!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Like this! < 1288474737 0 :group!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: having... studied... math a bit? < 1288474743 0 :arcane-sceptre!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CRAXIOM___ofchoi < 1288474747 0 :CRAXIOM___ofchoi!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CRAXIOM__ofchoic < 1288474749 0 :CRAXIOM__ofchoic!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CRAXIOM_ofchoice < 1288474752 0 :CRAXIOM_ofchoice!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an axiom... on CRACK < 1288474764 0 :Modularity_theor!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Poincare_Conject < 1288474773 0 :CRAXIOM_ofchoice!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FundThrmOfIRC < 1288474776 0 :FundThrmOfIRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that we're AWESOME. < 1288474779 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I would never hurt my axioms like that < 1288474800 0 :group!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CatOfSmallCats < 1288474825 0 :FundThrmOfIRC!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CnsrvtnOfEnrgy < 1288474843 0 :CnsrvtnOfEnrgy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CatOfSmallCats: omg i need to get cats and name them after categories < 1288474848 0 :CatOfSmallCats!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MaxwellsEqns < 1288474850 0 :Poincare_Conject!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :fermatslittlethe < 1288474859 0 :fermatslittlethe!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Phantom_Hoover < 1288474866 0 :MaxwellsEqns!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1288474870 0 :CnsrvtnOfEnrgy!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :frmthadalittle < 1288474870 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was fun < 1288474879 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but now it's tiem to _stop_ the madness! < 1288474879 0 :frmthadalittle!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :archaeology < 1288474881 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally. < 1288474883 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madness over < 1288474895 0 :BeholdMyGlory!~behold@unaffiliated/beholdmyglory JOIN :#esoteric < 1288474910 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guest teacher told me to prove the twin prime conjecture after the school was finished; I have been thinking about it ever sice. < 1288474913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sice/since/ < 1288474973 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: really? you have nothing better to do? < 1288474982 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ...Good luck with that, I think they were joking ;P < 1288474983 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:P < 1288474987 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION once wrote the Riemann Hypothesis on a whiteboard for homework.
< 1288474990 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: says the person on *IRC* < 1288475006 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noöne cared. < 1288475007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: I have other things to do, too. But I have still been thinking about it. I don't know how to prove it, yet. < 1288475031 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, there's NIH and there's proving the TPC single-handedly after a day's work. < 1288475041 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: well you have *prove* it, that's the thing, *then* they will care < 1288475061 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You do realise the probability of you proving it is somewhere in the region of zero? < 1288475064 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like everyone else :P < 1288475067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have proven other things though, such as Pythagorean theorem (I have done so while resting on the couch). < 1288475072 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, but they didn't even attempt the assignment! < 1288475077 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archaeology: Yes I realize that < 1288475093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, for extra credit, demonstrate that there are only 5 finite regular solids. < 1288475109 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving Pythagoras' theorem is something like a million billion trillion times easier than proving the twin prime conjecture :P < 1288475127 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archaeology: Yes, you are correct about that. < 1288475136 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demonstrating that there are only 5 Platonic solids is slightly harder, but not much. < 1288475156 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will try that at some time. < 1288475227 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then prove plato was an alien (note: requires axioms not found in ZFC) < 1288475269 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I don't think I can do that...... < 1288475314 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288475326 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"noöne"? wtf? < 1288475362 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1288475366 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: valid, but obnoxious. < 1288475372 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also archaic < 1288475386 0 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@61.251.165.38 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288475402 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :archaeology, why the sudden hatred for the diæresis? < 1288475430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't put them in nicks :P < 1288475543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tried to play with the twin prime conjecture in high school
< 1288475567 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did stuff like finding out that all primes except the early ones are centered around 6n+-1 < 1288475578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus, thought in terms of "rules" < 1288475592 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And dividing centers by 6 < 1288475593 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Sgeo solves the twin prime conjecture every mathematician in the world will commit suicide out of shame. < 1288475608 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've stopped thinking about it a long while ago < 1288475662 0 :archaeology!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288475758 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many programs do you know of that use Knuth's line breaking algorithm? < 1288475839 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would assume tex contains some form of it < 1288475844 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, no < 1288475847 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*none < 1288475899 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ChineseRemainder < 1288475918 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reboots
< 1288475921 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has to change... I want computer typography! < 1288475943 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: What has to change? < 1288475966 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lack of usage of good line-breaking algorithms < 1288476011 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think the one TeX uses is good algorithm? It seems to work good when hyphenation is turned off. < 1288476016 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288476031 0 :ChineseRemainder!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1288476032 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It sometimes works badly when hyphenation is turned on, though) < 1288476076 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's definitely better than the seemingly-standard greedy algorithm < 1288476113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can adjust it by changing the parameters < 1288476182 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288476283 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc12-sgyl29-2-0-cust185.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288476295 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, so wait, you aren't actually a maths nerd? < 1288476332 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MathsNerd < 1288476346 0 :MathsNerd!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :catseye < 1288476349 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: I just don't know anymore. CS is too attractive. < 1288476357 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES < 1288476365 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: CS is easier, maybe... < 1288476371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well bad cs is easier :)) < 1288476384 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU coreutils' "fmt" tool doesn't use the greedy algorithm, but I don't think it's exactly Knuth's either. It's has a cost function characterized by various parameters; it tries to avoid raggedness, too many lines, orphaned words; and it gives bonus points for line-breaking immediately after a sentence; and so on. < 1288476384 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is just mathematics with some crap stuck on, < 1288476385 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want hardcore CS < 1288476397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like cs, but it's strictly a branch of mathematics < 1288476401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: "hardcore"? seriously? < 1288476408 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, is that "nerd hardcore" or "maths hardcore"? < 1288476410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of curiosity...how old are you? < 1288476415 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CS is math for machines < 1288476423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: no... WE'RE the machine < 1288476424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAGE AGAINST IT < 1288476453 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish my name was Reg... my nick would so totally be RegAgainstTheMachine < 1288476458 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: "the algorithm is a variant of that given by Donald E. Knuth" http://www.gnu.org/software/coreutils/manual/html_node/fmt-invocation.html < 1288476458 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314, do you know how big O notation works? < 1288476470 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do not, you aren't even remotely a maths nerd. < 1288476477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...who doesn't know how big O notation works? < 1288476485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, uh, oh forget it. < 1288476488 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION , until under a year ago
< 1288476491 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yeah. I even know about big-theta too :p < 1288476496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: yes but you're like three years old. < 1288476506 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3½! < 1288476540 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: Do you know how to prove that a language is not regular? < 1288476562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: step one, try and parse it with a regexp < 1288476568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :step two, failed? CONGRAJTSJ! < 1288476570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This may not be the best way, but sometimes you can use dd to write the file to a usb and it will be bootable < 1288476570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd -i file.iso -o /dev/sdb" < 1288476574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what inexplicably saner dd this man has
< 1288476578 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd stick to maths if they had any cool channels... < 1288476721 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I'd write an algorithm for parsing it, and see how much state I'd need < 1288476760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a working program and then analyse it's properties... sounds like Mathnerd314 really is CSnerdΩ < 1288476764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is really < 1288476774 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: but first I'd check wikipedia to see if there were any good theorems < 1288476802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future, papers will have references to wikipedia < 1288476806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that will be a sad, sad day < 1288476940 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: you do realize that the existence of an algorithm that can't parse it doesn't imply non-existence of an algorithm that can, yes? < 1288476984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "Reversing a longstanding policy, the federal government said on Friday that human and other genes should not be eligible for patents." < 1288476986 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What timing. < 1288477060 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's already there, in middle/high schools. But I'm guessing most colleges will use Arxiv or something < 1288477061 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing to worry about is citing a Google search < 1288477092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... you know... cite the actual journal. < 1288477114 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: ok; after checking wikipedia, I'd find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myhill-Nerode_theorem, and then see if I could use that < 1288477132 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1288477143 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: or maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumping_lemma_for_regular_languages since it looks easier < 1288477227 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll pump your lemma) < 1288477286 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your lemma's so fat it needs its own paper < 1288477342 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: Your lemma's so ugly they published it in an addendum. < 1288477355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1288477362 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh snap! < 1288477381 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288477606 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288477631 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26 help < 1288477631 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26 -frigg(~frigg@freenode/utility-bot/frigg)- Available help topics are: help < 1288477653 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26 help help < 1288477653 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26 -frigg(~frigg@freenode/utility-bot/frigg)- help -- Gives help on a given topic or command. < 1288477690 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye: I get 44 help topics. < 1288477702 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When typing HELP < 1288477715 0 :iGO!iGO@88.210.107.211.rev.optimus.pt JOIN :#esoteric < 1288477817 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't. < 1288477824 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frigg must just hate me/ < 1288477833 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288477838 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288477846 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there are 480 possible bases for the octonions! we are so lucky to have so much choice < 1288477907 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1288478013 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catseye, bases? < 1288478062 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: multiplication tables for e_0 through e_7 < 1288478091 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, the octonions are *useful*? < 1288478097 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I thought there were just "the octonions" < 1288478099 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: don < 1288478103 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: don't believe it! < 1288478114 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"string theory, special relativity, and quantum logic" < 1288478131 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, SR? Seriously? < 1288478134 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immensely practical subjects < 1288478138 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, < 1288478140 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Wikipedia < 1288478149 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its mathematics are fairly simple IIRC. < 1288478205 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, octonions aren't knotty, they're just weird < 1288478325 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks if his graphics drivers behave now.
< 1288478332 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may get messy... < 1288478388 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION punches air
< 1288478417 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I can run Oolite again. < 1288478445 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Or I could, if I hadn't deleted the useless executable months ago. < 1288478492 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is Dirac notation *useful* in accounting? < 1288478502 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but that doesn't matter. < 1288478517 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a precis of the stuff you came up with? < 1288478556 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I find Dirac notation useful in accounting. (That is, using matrix accounting, which is some mathematics for accounting, that I made up, and it is useful) < 1288478567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: What is a precis of the stuff? < 1288478686 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I wrote the "intlconv.w" program, so that the translation files used with "internationalization.wi" program can be maintained easily. < 1288478702 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288478757 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288478788 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288478788 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is Oolite? < 1288478882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288478899 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, go drink hydroxic acid. < 1288478901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Two reboots later... < 1288478912 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I guess I shouldn't tempt fate. < 1288478916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oolite? < 1288478930 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1288478933 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you answer my questions? < 1288478933 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you are neither British nor in your late 30s. < 1288478939 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't be nostalgic about it. < 1288478976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor am I a geologist < 1288478997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed you aren't, Sgeo, indeed you aren't. < 1288479016 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of apparently 3 oolites are you referring to? < 1288479027 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not referring to the rock, you're not referring to the video game < 1288479028 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The remake of Elite < 1288479036 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are referring to the video game < 1288479040 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1288479048 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would I have to be British to care? < 1288479064 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because about 5 Americans owned Acorn computers. < 1288479129 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION splashes hydroxic acid in zzo38's face
< 1288479179 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to make a set of cards and tokens for a Mornington Crescent game. I already have a map. < 1288479356 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now see the programs http://sprunge.us/XHjL and http://sprunge.us/PdEF and now complain that I did it wrong because there is no such command in C, or because the sun is the wrong color, or whatever. < 1288479394 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The sun should be blue. < 1288479406 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I need a nerd (preferably lovable) to explain why it is within normal operating parameters for my graphics driver to crash my computer. < 1288479410 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing WEB stuff < 1288479421 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming that that's what WEB stuff looks like < 1288479423 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember it < 1288479431 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not in this solar system, I think.... < 1288479454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hits zzo38 with an @
< 1288479455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: These programs are Enhanced CWEB programs. It is similar to WEB, but C instead of Pascal, as well as some other differences, too. < 1288479462 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you understand these programs? < 1288479474 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I read about wasn't specific to any language < 1288479524 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote some Python stuff with it < 1288479525 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1288479528 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The WEB system was designed for Pascal. (The reference implementation of TeX is written in WEB.) < 1288479545 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever I used had a lot of @ < 1288479550 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then it might have been a different language-independent system, such as noweb or newfangle. < 1288479578 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noweb sounds right < 1288479637 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program did you write with it? < 1288479690 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1288479697 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something Haver related < 1288479726 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is Haver? < 1288479748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A chat protocol supposed to be used instead of IRC < 1288479779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, Clang's coming along well < 1288479789 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, help me describe Haver? < 1288479789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it now does the whole of FreeBSD, and enough of Linux that the result runs well enough to recompile itself < 1288479804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's IRC, except worse, and nobody uses it. < 1288479851 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"worse"? Howso? < 1288479853 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well, do you understand my two programs? Is there any parts you did not understand, you can ask? < 1288479868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, "IRC, except worse" describes a lot of things < 1288479882 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't read them
< 1288479890 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think IRC is OK, if they followed the protocol, which they don't! < 1288479936 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Then, read them < 1288479988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Or ELSE. < 1288480030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288480064 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also tell me if there are things you do not like about these programs < 1288480132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in that case, "IRC, except worse" describes practical implementations of IRC < 1288480210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: My IRC server and IRC client is capable to use the proper protocol (although it also can use non-standard extensions). < 1288480232 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most IRC servers and IRC clients are not capable to use the proper protocol. < 1288480329 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1288480409 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1288480432 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288480463 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. I now need advice on use of enhanced coercive interrogation techniques to make my computer stop mocking me. < 1288480485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1288480567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know anything about enhanced coercive interrogation techniques. < 1288480677 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor I. < 1288480689 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not prefer a lovable nerd for this solution < 1288480700 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read a book about it, then. < 1288480714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WATERBOARDING: The Do-It-Yourself Guide" < 1288480726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear, waterboarding sounds like a sport. < 1288480747 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure you don't need a book to teach you how to waterboard < 1288480764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's about not accidentally killing the person, psychological damage, etc < 1288480775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to use it to get confessions that might not actually be true < 1288480781 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just put a board on water and expect to do waterboarding without some instruction < 1288480794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotta learn how to keep your balance < 1288480796 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to ride the wave < 1288480797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1288480928 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would probably be a good strategy to get rid of criticism due to waterboarding - invent a sport to match the name and market it violently until no-one remembers a method of torture with the same name < 1288480965 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288480966 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: like surfing? < 1288480971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathnerd314: yes, but < 1288480972 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waterboarding! < 1288480983 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what do you think about waterboarding performed by the military?" "I think it's great that they get some R&R over there!" < 1288481012 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surfboards don't have feet straps do they? < 1288481016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could add that to start with < 1288481017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they < 1288481019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea < 1288481037 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gets a rag and some water.
< 1288481038 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're just flat afaik < 1288481048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1288481049 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO COMPUTER YOU THINK YOU'RE SO SMART < 1288481051 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feet straps < 1288481053 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: *board* and water :D < 1288481084 0 :Phantom_Hoover_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
< 1288481101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1288481108 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover_: ? < 1288481123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ok so maybe with waterboarding you're actually like < 1288481129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lying flat on the board at all times < 1288481170 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that could work < 1288481184 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you do that when surfing too, just not all the time < 1288481227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: right, but CONSTANTLY < 1288481229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ooh < 1288481236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: maybe your arms go underneath, and you tie them to it < 1288481238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with feet < 1288481241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you become one with the board! < 1288481374 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, drowning while strapped to a board and having fun! < 1288481439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yup! < 1288481446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: just like waterboarding. < 1288481557 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the torture version is less likely to kill you I think < 1288481581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it sounds great though < 1288481584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECOME ONE WITH THE BOARD < 1288481749 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1288482079 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1288482096 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: in that case, "IRC, except worse" describes practical implementations of IRC <-- "IRC, except not quite as braindead" is how practical implementations of IRC work. < 1288482198 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-7-173.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288482325 0 :catseye!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1288482411 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1288482432 0 :catseye!~catseye@adsl-99-96-163-210.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1288482489 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1288482504 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1288483119 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's braindead about the spec?