< 1289260808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so is it classic or alpharrrrrrr < 1289260810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1289260833 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289260841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really run on my computer < 1289260849 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun anyway < 1289260856 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289260865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't look as nice though < 1289260893 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you bought it? :P < 1289260895 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also < 1289260897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: go into options < 1289260898 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1289260902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: set 3d rendering to fast, rendering distance to short < 1289260904 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit < 1289260908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done all that < 1289260915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no change < 1289260945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some change < 1289260988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway it isn't that laggy in the mine and that's where i be. < 1289261212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Okay, so... Presumably he just hasn't bothered with IRC. < 1289261233 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too busy < 1289261264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, he lost his shell account that he irssis from. :P < 1289261383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he can't just use irssi on his own computer... Why? < 1289261386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Windows. < 1289261423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's cool-Windows-user convention to only irssi from a shell account :P < 1289261426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With PuTTY! < 1289261442 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool-Windows-user? what is this creature? < 1289261507 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289261517 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: oerjan < 1289261539 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1289261612 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I use Ubuntu so that's not very cool either :( < 1289261626 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, ubuntu is... workable < 1289261631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like any other distro is better < 1289261639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to spend effort on current shitty systems? < 1289261909 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289261951 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Microsoft does! < 1289262023 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah, a portal in the middle of a packice < 1289262024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1289262040 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well surface level < 1289262042 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always that < 1289262138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: wat < 1289262141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: screenshot < 1289262155 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I placed some stones around it now, since it was melting < 1289262170 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but sure, starting minecraft again, was just checking in mapper < 1289262223 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The portal is melting!" < 1289262261 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, the ice was < 1289262605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, elliott, see new screenshots at the same url as before. < 1289262640 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: BUT I'M DOING ~HOMEWORK~ (tedium tedium tedium) < 1289262651 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, then don't see them < 1289262669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it would be a welcome break, link me :P < 1289262673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it < 1289262676 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same link as before < 1289262705 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-09_01.10.36.png bendy lava < 1289262713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-09_01.24.25.png gahaha < 1289262756 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the former is flowing ;P < 1289262760 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BENDY < 1289262763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1289262768 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I didn't say it wasn't < 1289262769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes to self http://www.mathopd.org/ < 1289262773 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is flowing and bending < 1289262789 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://sporksirc.net/~anmaster/minecraft/screenshots/2010-11-09_01.24.25.png gahaha <-- what is so funny? < 1289262800 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1289262800 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the photogenic bird? < 1289262803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just amusing < 1289262819 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I placed the cobblestone around there since it was melting by itself < 1289262820 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bird on ice! PORTAL WITH OMINOUS TORCHES on blocks inexplicably floating in water. < 1289262838 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the torches aren't omnious < 1289262857 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just there to give it some style < 1289262862 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and light) < 1289262871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shaddap :P < 1289263036 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289263050 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is .tar.gz more popular than .gz.tar < 1289263051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1289263093 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289263235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Heh, I was deciding what to call my darkhttpd fork, and thought "hey, invert it" -- oops -- and then realised the pun. < 1289263241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(invert the name, that is.) < 1289263256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289263264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wasn't it obvious from the start < 1289263268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Nope :P < 1289263321 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm Minecraft < 1289263339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: C on a Lisp Machine ends up very DS9Ky: http://lists.tunes.org/archives/lispos/1997-June/001659.html < 1289263344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This isn't as bad as it sounds because (except in the presence of casts) C is < 1289263345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strongly typed. The vast majority of C code is not finicky about the < 1289263345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :representation of pointers; only something like a Lisp implementation in C < 1289263345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. GNU Emacs), which was doing its own pointer tagging, would have trouble. < 1289263345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All pointers were represented as pairs of an array and an index; NULL was < 1289263345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply a pair of NIL and 0. If you cast a pointer to an integer, you got a < 1289263347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cons of the array part and the index part. You could later cast this back to < 1289263349 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pointer without loss of information, but obviously you couldn't do < 1289263351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arithmetic on it while it was in the form of a cons.]] < 1289263362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, I used Lisp integers for C `int' and `long'. This meant bignums < 1289263362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be created automatically, as usual in Lisp." < 1289263372 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289263444 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289263503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: awesome, though. < 1289263558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[I should add that ZETA-C made critical use of the Lisp Machine's support for < 1289263559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :displaced arrays of different element sizes: one can displace a byte array < 1289263559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onto a halfword or word array. (Common Lisp doesn't support this, and I don't < 1289263559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think Scheme has displaced arrays at all.) This permitted storage of < 1289263559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different sizes of things in a single aggregate, and also, e.g., writing a < 1289263559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word through a pointer, casting the pointer to a byte pointer, and reading the < 1289263562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word back as bytes, which is something C programs do occasionally.]] < 1289263596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and I gave up forking darkhttpd when I saw that it used stdio. < 1289263603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now I'm writing my own httpd -- how unusual of me! < 1289263612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feature list: < 1289263619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Parses and responds to HTTP requests < 1289263638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Serves a Unix file hierarchy (with sendfile, if it can) < 1289263643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Supports CGI. < 1289263644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Supports SCGI. < 1289263645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the end :P < 1289263773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Don wrote the chapter on the < 1289263773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-Windows Disaster. (To annoy X fanatics, Don specifically asked that we < 1289263773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :include the hyphen after the letter “X,” as well as the plural on the word < 1289263773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :“Windows,” in his chapter title.)]] < 1289263940 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, fork thttpd! < 1289263953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No; thttpd is bloated and has useless features like "throttling". < 1289263958 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289263963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it supports CGI, and where's the fun in not being able to write my own? < 1289263974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and the options are in UPPERCASE. < 1289263977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which annoys me very slightly. < 1289263995 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Besides, it probably uses stdio. < 1289264000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, nothing wrong with upper case: $PATH < 1289264007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but not for configuration files. < 1289264013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, and have you *seen* the size of the tarball? < 1289264016 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1289264022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :497.7 KiBs unpacked. < 1289264024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, more screenshots btw < 1289264026 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same url < 1289264037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real httpds are one file big. < 1289264055 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, instead of supporting SCGI, I might just support proxying to another server. < 1289264080 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, will you support HTTP/1.1? < 1289264087 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with persistent connections? < 1289264089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. :P < 1289264096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, first one, yes. Second one, almost certainly (yes). < 1289264107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Everyone knows that dynamic pages are bullshit. < 1289264108 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you have to support the second for the first < 1289264111 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's just a matter of resetting the state to the initial state and then not disconnecting!) < 1289264118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, < 1289264120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ^ < 1289264127 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: HTTP/1.1 is required for Host:, too, which is kind of vital. < 1289264131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, did you see those screenshots? < 1289264131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the Host header, < 1289264134 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Shut up :P < 1289264136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1289264139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Make some screenshots of Nether. < 1289264142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Nice ones.) < 1289264149 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think there was a few before? < 1289264152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not entirely sure I was being sarcastic there. Honest. < 1289264156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could make some of that lava cavern < 1289264178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you just want static pages, there are options for you. Such as darkhttpd :P < 1289264212 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gopher! < 1289264245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, i have no desire of being zzo38 < 1289264248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am always heavily tempted to create webpages via compilation. < 1289264258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm, templating. < 1289264264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how can you serve random fortunes on your homepage without dynamic pages? < 1289264265 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get real < 1289264266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a CMS but less actual work. < 1289264272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Javascript! < 1289264279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you :P < 1289264587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ perl -e'print `/bin/ls`, "\n"' < 1289264587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1289264588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1289264588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1289264611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1289264612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty directory < 1289264613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1289264739 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1289265087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I hereby present fortune.cgi: http://sprunge.us/TcAP?pl < 1289265090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: TEMPLATING IS FOR WEENIES. < 1289265132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Nice work on omitting the head and body and html tags. < 1289265143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Legal HTML 5. < 1289265147 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So many people seem to not know they're optional. < 1289265166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/\${FORTUNE}/chomp($x=`fortune -a`) and $x/e; < 1289265168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ Simplification. < 1289265177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/\${FORTUNE}/chomp($x=`fortune -a`); $x/e; < 1289265182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greater simplification, but uglier :P < 1289265195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, optional in the file. The DOM makes them via magic, anyways.) < 1289265212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (The bonus of this is that you can set your editor to HTML mode and it'll basically work. < 1289265230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite nice. < 1289265234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Of course, with pages like this, one might as well use PHP for all the good it'll do you :-P < 1289265236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*work.) < 1289265284 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (TODO: HTTP server to run it on.) < 1289265289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, same URL. Note that 2010-11-09_02.01.24.png is *looking upwards*, though it is hard to tell. < 1289265321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By the way, /r/minecraft advice is to version-control your savefiles. < 1289265333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (Well, technically the non-nerds there word it as "put them in Dropbox", but same thing.) < 1289265359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I use rsync to back them up. they change a lot so vcs might be impractical < 1289265367 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Thus why you commit manually... < 1289265391 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, about 2/3 change completely every time according to rsync < 1289265400 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, though, nice savescumming with a vcs < 1289265469 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time < 1289265472 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of files: 14235 < 1289265473 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number of files transferred: 8989 < 1289265478 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was unusually few files < 1289265480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: So have you encountered Herobrine yet?! < 1289265487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sent 25.87M bytes received 172.22K bytes 2.08M bytes/sec < 1289265487 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :total size is 25.26M speedup is 0.97 < 1289265491 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what? < 1289265501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: See http://www.minecraftwiki.net/images/6/68/1283223082465.jpg. < 1289265505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (If you say tl;dr I will punch you.) < 1289265625 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf < 1289265635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: IT'S ALL TRUE. < 1289265656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Not even vaguely true.) < 1289265662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: Textures are fun!) < 1289265669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: You can change textures. And they are fun!) < 1289265672 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/User:Kizzycocoa/Herobrine < 1289265680 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and there are some strange things in that image < 1289265716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what do you mean? < 1289265738 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the red thingy on the side < 1289265749 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's a door, i think. < 1289265759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He is actually a retextured painting or iron door of the default skin with no eyes. This originated a long time ago, when a "creepy-pasta" was made about Herobrine." < 1289265760 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like one < 1289265769 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, older version < 1289265775 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289265815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But it turns out... < 1289265821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOTCH'S BROTHER *WAS* CALLED HEROBRINE < 1289265824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[DRAMATIC MUSIC] < 1289265830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK < 1289265831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEHIND < 1289265831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU < 1289265837 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289265875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Spleef < 1289265881 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read about it < 1289265903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sounds more fun if creating block werw allowed. < 1289265913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*was < 1289265937 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289266014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Adventure this looks fun although unminecrafty (you've probably seen) < 1289266063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraftcon_2010 < 1289266066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also seen it < 1289266081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seen it lawl < 1289266133 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://i.imgur.com/7qB8w.png < 1289266141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*facepalm* < 1289266148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1289266152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Republican solution for the economy? LAYOFFS. < 1289266154 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, where? < 1289266166 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I saw the contest? < 1289266168 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but already? < 1289266178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "coming tomorrow", 3 hours ago < 1289266180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As everyone knows, firing people provides economic stimulus by kicking it in the crotch, metaphorically. < 1289266188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: add http://twitter.com/notch to any rss reader you may have :P < 1289266206 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah I believe I hit a fatal flaw with this scheme < 1289266208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ha -- "First prize is a 180 GB SSD signed by me (yes, on the actual drive!)" < 1289266212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what scheme? < 1289266219 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, adding to RSS reader < 1289266227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use one? :P < 1289266227 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I don't have one < 1289266230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me neither < 1289266232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just noise < 1289266235 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1289266236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get my noise from REDDIT! < 1289266241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much better! < 1289266250 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw you won't get any UPDATES from me :P < 1289266253 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you ever did < 1289266257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1289266287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i repeat, ? :p < 1289266301 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, as in, I won't send you (and really won't, not just hypothetically won't) give you and updated alpha < 1289266307 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have of course never done so < 1289266321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well i'm buying, like, tomorrow anyway < 1289266331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason not to, it's cheap < 1289266337 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1289266339 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fun < 1289266339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"E Ink Unveils Color E-Reader Display" < 1289266344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...............yes plz < 1289266348 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1289266355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Unlike an LCD screen, the colors are muted, as if one were looking at a faded color photograph. In addition, E Ink cannot handle full-motion video. At best, it can show simple animations." < 1289266355 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how does it work? < 1289266359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah that's totally what an e-ink screen is meant for < 1289266361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FULL COLOUR VIDEO < 1289266362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morons < 1289266370 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/10/11/08/2025256/E-Ink-Unveils-Color-E-Reader-Display < 1289266379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the muted colours might be a problem < 1289266384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1289266387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever read a newspaper? < 1289266404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Right. Color charts in "The Economist" are barely intelligible on Kindle." --comment < 1289266410 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well okay. I was thinking something like a garden photo book with thick glossy pages < 1289266437 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's an item that exists just for the aesthetic experience, why would you abandon paper? < 1289266449 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good point < 1289266479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Abandon paper? Hell, I'm more likely to start printing and binding books myself than abandon paper. < 1289266482 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1289266497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: E-readers are very worthwhile. < 1289266500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for students. < 1289266506 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1289266506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but so are dead trees. < 1289266513 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't sell the books on or? < 1289266515 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1289266526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: That's a flaw of current implementations. < 1289266531 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I sold old text books when I no longer needed it < 1289266536 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I can't do that... well fuck it < 1289266545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sell? Seriously? You have the goddamn file right there! < 1289266548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a million copies! < 1289266550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it would reduce weight of backpack < 1289266554 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm < 1289266556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are your own, limitless library, requiring no fees as you never run out. < 1289266557 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: DRM sucks. < 1289266561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1289266562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...of course, then you run into copyright law. < 1289266573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which essentially... outlaws being a cost-free library. < 1289266585 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make any sense? Of course it doesn't make any goddamn sense! < 1289266610 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also uh they wouldn't allow that into exams. Some exams allow you to bring course literatur < 1289266613 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literature* < 1289266624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh did you like the nether screenshots? < 1289266632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes. < 1289266644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Anyway, dead trees are useless when you have 50 goddamn textbooks. < 1289266654 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, CC-by-sa-nc-3.0 or GFDL, whichever annoys you most < 1289266655 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289266662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not saying ebooks are valueless. < 1289266664 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...for the screenshots? < 1289266670 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well hm < 1289266671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm saying that they're not a replacement for dead trees. < 1289266674 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not possible < 1289266678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i am confused :P < 1289266679 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyrighted material < 1289266688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck copyright law < 1289266699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Joyfully, I can make my own copy and do whatever I want to it regardless. < 1289266699 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the composition of the images was mine < 1289266705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed :D < 1289266711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Also: Distribute a binary patch from your image to mine. < 1289266719 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, eh? < 1289266732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: binary-diff screenshot.png modified-screenshot.png >foo < 1289266736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can redistribute foo. < 1289266746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then anyone can legally patch screenshot.png with foo! < 1289266749 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289266753 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I call it "djb-Free".) < 1289266763 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, huh? what has that got to do with djb? < 1289266795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Modern qemu is stock qemu + a shitload of patches because of the no-license thing. < 1289266796 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1289266809 0 :Mathnerd314_!~mathnerd3@dsl.6.28.53.206.cos.dyn.pcisys.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289266809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is illegal to modify and then redistribute qemu. < 1289266813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the mounds of patches. < 1289266823 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1289266832 0 :Mathnerd314_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mathnerd314 < 1289266835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1289266835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A minecraft convention? It would be like SMP IRL! We'd just have to show up without any clothes or objects, constantly fall asleep/leave/come back, have people set fire to the convention center, and wait for someone other than the organizer to make the whole thing work! Yay!" < 1289266837 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, djb made qemu!? < 1289266840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"A < 1289266842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...qmail < 1289266844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i mean < 1289266853 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you said qemu < 1289266857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QEMU was Fabrice Bellard, the *other* god. < 1289266859 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shut up :P < 1289266868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and well, qmail yeah I know how it work < 1289266870 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works* < 1289266887 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I like the netqmail patchset < 1289266921 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb has been licensing a lot of his software to shut people up, right? < 1289266923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God Fabrice Bellard is amazing. < 1289266944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D. J. Bernstein and Fabrice Bellard once had a baby, but its amazingness counter overflowed and it died. < 1289266952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morale: Always use bignums. < 1289266971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Great, now they're public domain! Swap ambiguity for ambiguity :) http://cr.yp.to/distributors.html < 1289266975 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah not amazing enough then. Should have used lisp machines < 1289267000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was so awesome the universe killed it after detecting a being with negative awesomeness. < 1289267043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Fabrice Bellard devised a scheme to broadcast DVB-T from any arbitrary VGA card. < 1289267074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1289267147 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, link < 1289267161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bellard.org/dvbt/ < 1289267167 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[This is not a hoax ! With a PC running Linux and a recent VGA card, you can emit a real digital TV signal in the VHF band to your DVB-T set-top box.]] < 1289267187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish we had freeview instead of sky here, I'd be evil and broadcast eerie messages. < 1289267199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming I can overpower the regional transmitters :P) < 1289267207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# A DVB-T set-top box able to receive VHF signals with a bandwidth of 8 MHz (unfortunately most decoders sold in UK only receive UHF signals). You can use French DVB-T receivers which accept VHF and UHF RF signals." < 1289267208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1289267224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A cable connecting the VGA output to the set-top box RF input." < 1289267269 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289267272 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am sorry to announce that the source code won't be available any time soon. " < 1289267297 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: legal reasons, probably < 1289267441 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1289267445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also http://www.erikyyy.de/tempest/ < 1289267447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have seen < 1289268040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.erikyyy.de/superzoom/ wtf is the point of this :D < 1289268224 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tametick.com/cq/ < 1289268244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dungeon crawler < 1289268408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dwheeler.com/trusting-trust/ seen this before but linking anyway < 1289268428 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(double spaced; ugh) < 1289268578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... gcc has an option to set the random seed. Why does it use random numbers? < 1289268581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goodnight; bye. < 1289268583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1289269665 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, upside-down backwards left-handed keyboarding is truly the best kind of keyboarding. < 1289273793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97.98pts (97.98%) < 1289273798 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my Perl exam < 1289273892 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some randomized algorithms it uses? < 1289273911 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm/ < 1289273922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oj < 1289273924 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1289275106 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: This computer has gone to sleep < 1289275261 0 :madbr!~madbrain@modemcable159.218-202-24.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1289275264 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1289275887 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1289276820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Shouldn't a compiler be, y'know, deterministic? < 1289277559 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-32-225.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289277586 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Randomized algorithms can produce perfectly deterministic results. It depends on the algorithm and data it is appiled on... < 1289277635 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1289277839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, true, it's entirely possible that they're doing something like that. < 1289277845 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though why is still beyond me. < 1289277856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worth looking in to. < 1289278055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I have missed out on screwing around doing nothing for today; I need to do that. < 1289278126 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As to why would algorithm producing deterministic results use random numbers? < 1289278269 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1289278386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, as to why they would use such an algorithm. < 1289278487 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design a simple instruction set, and I'm wondering what sort of instructions to help it run fast in small loops (no-cache system, 16 or 32 bits...) < 1289278499 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be added < 1289278571 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No bad inputs is the usual reason for picking randomized algorithm... < 1289279189 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1289279406 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289279864 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@bas5-toronto47-2925108739.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1289280658 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289280788 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289281765 0 :dbc!~daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289282498 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289284283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why speculate when you can just read the fine manual? < 1289284290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This option provides a seed that GCC uses when it would otherwise use random numbers. It is used to generate certain symbol names that have to be different in every compiled file. It is also used to place unique stamps in coverage data files and the object files that produce them. You can use the -frandom-seed option to produce reproducibly identical object files." < 1289284632 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289284658 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289284769 0 :augur!~augur@208-59-167-26.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289284807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope those are UUIDs. < 1289284827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, numbers with similar properties. < 1289284838 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, unique for most intents and purposes) < 1289284848 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289285311 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1289285560 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1289286058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289287370 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 the mountains < 1289287925 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289288016 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-106.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289288835 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyo < 1289289599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1289289600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1289290023 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Radiateur < 1289291569 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289291602 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-11-106.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289292447 0 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-251.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1289294322 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1289294402 0 :Vorpal!~AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1289294470 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaaaah, seems like syslog crashed during the night, and then the rest crashed just after I came back < 1289294474 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to sysrq < 1289294516 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's a GraphViz thing in that Google chart API: http://code.google.com/apis/chart/docs/gallery/graphviz.html < 1289294569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I made me a nick-remapped table too: < 1289294571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite> select count(*) from logs where type = 0 and nick = 'elliott'; < 1289294571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :28867 < 1289294571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite> select count(*) from mlogs where type = 0 and nick = 'elliott'; < 1289294571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :442702 < 1289294582 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use a view < 1289294585 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a table < 1289294590 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with regex replace < 1289294612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it should be slower but in practise it is fast enough even on this old computer < 1289294612 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using postgres that is < 1289294618 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite is generally slower than postgres at lookup < 1289294633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't have postgres at this work-box, so. < 1289294651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you (can you) have an index on the remapped nicks? < 1289294672 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no, I couldn't find how < 1289294689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's something, but a bit limited. < 1289294696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be technical about it, mlogs is also a view. < 1289294702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE VIEW mlogs AS SELECT < 1289294702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : l.idx AS idx, l.tstamp AS tstamp, < 1289294702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : m.mapnick AS nick, l.nick AS rawnick, < 1289294702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : l.target AS target, l.uhost AS uhost, l.type AS type, l.body AS body < 1289294702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FROM logs l NATURAL JOIN nickmap m; < 1289294705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289294721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "nickmap" is a (idx, mapnick) table. < 1289294729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't feel like duplicating everything. < 1289294826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could've saved some space with only having one nick for those messages where there's no remapping going on, though. < 1289294840 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1289294883 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice solution < 1289294891 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but some of them has so many nick variants < 1289294897 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I opted for regexp < 1289294916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, those remappings are made with regexps too. It's the same set my esolog.py plotting tools use. < 1289294927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure it has all of elliott's billions of names in it, though.) < 1289294955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have the drawback that changing the regexps means regenerating the whole nickmap table. < 1289294979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately we only have one prominent serial nick-changer here. < 1289295074 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1289295090 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you mean warringal? < 1289295095 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or elliot? < 1289295097 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tt* < 1289295112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The E is who I meant. I guess those aren't *that* often either, though. < 1289295159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make a PostgreSQL index on an expression "foo(x) || 'bar'" simply with "create index blah on tabley ((foo(x) || 'bar'))" -- the manual does say they're expensive to maintain, though. (And you'd need to duplicate your presumably-horrible regexp expression in both the view declaration and the index declaration.) < 1289295240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this sort of mapping: http://p.zem.fi/esonickmap (They're Python's strange "automatically anchored at start but not at end" regexps, and case-insensitive, and the second element in the tuples is what it maps to.) < 1289295306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and I right-strip the set "-[]\`^{}_" from nicks too, to semi-automatically handle "foo" and "foo_".) < 1289295568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, on this table I myself am pretty high up on the "%:P" ranking list: http://p.zem.fi/eso-p < 1289295615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In yet other news, ".mode column" and ".headers on" made sqlite's output a lot more readable than the default "just fields separated with |". < 1289295636 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/)/ < 1289295682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do automatic column-widths, though, so the nick column there is truncated for some. < 1289295687 0 :Wamanuz5!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289295898 0 :fungot!~fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1289295938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hello again. Hopefully the short power outage didn't mess up your brane. I mean, brain. < 1289295939 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please do not destroy it")) < 1289295957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Destroy what! < 1289295958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: s/ what are/ 1? < 1289295966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look too good. < 1289295971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you *sure* you're okay? < 1289295972 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hrm. that is if you had < 1289295983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh noes, he's completely bonkers. < 1289295986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Nothing new there.) < 1289296059 0 :Wamanuz4!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1289296059 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1289296927 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, art thou aliveth? < 1289296928 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: there is rom. also, i think i will ever use lisp because im in a class < 1289296943 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, fungot < 1289296945 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: then i must think of an esoteric language called cake. and it's not been the most reliable timing source. however, this guy is the fnord file < 1289297444 0 :myndzi\!myndzi@c-24-19-39-178.hsd1.wa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289297612 0 :myndzi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289303296 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289306057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1289309675 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gosu-lang.org/comparison.shtml < 1289310251 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289311345 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sasha < 1289312471 0 :xiang1!~root@115.50.253.249 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289312689 0 :xiang1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289313180 0 :jcp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1289313296 0 :lilja_!~lilja_@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1289313532 0 :jcp!~jw@bzflag/contributor/javawizard2539 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289314659 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289316803 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-115.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289318650 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289318732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:21:10 aaaaaaah, seems like syslog crashed during the night, and then the rest crashed just after I came back < 1289318732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:21:14 had to sysrq < 1289318738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your service manager didn't restart it? < 1289318740 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289318787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:28:47 (I'm not sure it has all of elliott's billions of names in it, though.) < 1289318840 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm ehird, (iEhird), tusho, zuff, alise, estoppel; Warrigal's ihope, uorygl, kerlo, tswett. < 1289318851 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:35:06 (Oh, and I right-strip the set "-[]\`^{}_" from nicks too, to semi-automatically handle "foo" and "foo_".) < 1289318852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1289318861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Then ihope is ihope127 too, ...maybe, not sure; and I'm ehird` too. < 1289318902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1289319292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1289319297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, Oracle vs. HP is hilarious < 1289319307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oracle tried to sue HP, and HP's CEO literally ran away and hid somewhere < 1289319315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now Oracle are trying to find him to serve him legal papers < 1289319330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seriously? < 1289319332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1289319340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i love america. < 1289319358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody's entirely sure whether he did it to avoid testifying in the court case, or whether he simply happened to be on holiday somewhere and doesn't have a clue what's going on < 1289319374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Silly Léo Apotheker. < 1289319391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh come on, the CEO of HP not even looking at HP-related news a *little* on holiday? :) < 1289319437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps he saw the news reports saying he'd run away and hidden, and decided to humour the journalists < 1289319466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [wikipedia venting, feel free to ignore if you want] I am SICK of getting my constructive, anonymous edits semi-automatically reverted and then having a vandalism warning being placed on my talk page just because I don't edit under a vanity, ego-boosting name. Yes, I removed a sentence! And a section header! The section was only one sentence! And it *directly* contradicted the first paragraph, which had newer information! Gah! < 1289319475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, nice < 1289319508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the trick's to write a detailed edit summary of what's going on, then when someone templates you, explain on the article talk page and their talk page why you made the change < 1289319521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, the other side either apologises or gives up < 1289319525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (cur | prev) 02:05, 9 November 2010 91.105.90.101 (talk) (8,782 bytes) (→Limitations: contradicts introduction) (undo) (Tag: section blanking) < 1289319540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make the summary less brief and thus obscure my intent more next time. :P < 1289319577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blanked a section a few days ago, and nobody contradicted me on that ‎ (→Early life: blank section; it's unsourced and BLP, and has been vandalised so often I have no idea what the actual correct data is. Please add a source before re-adding the section, or nobody else will be able to tell the truth either...) < 1289319603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tend to go over-the-top with edit summaries when I'm doing something as potentially controversial as that < 1289319631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm uninvolved; I found the vandalism on that page when I was reverting vandalism on an unrelated page, and checked the other contributions of the vandal to see if they were vandalism too) < 1289319638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you're a username < 1289319646 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you did it anonymously < 1289319656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IPs are 1/16th of a person :p < 1289319657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I am < 1289319666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: woot, i just wrote a detailed edit summary. TOO BIG TO FIT IN THE BOX < 1289319675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your case, you could have probably just tagged the section {{contradict|section}}, which has much the same effect as blanking and is less likely to be reverted < 1289319678 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is making an account such an awful thing to do? < 1289319682 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dear jimbo wales: i'll give your solemn photographed ass some money when wikipedia stoped sucking < 1289319683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1289319690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Welcome to Missing The Point Entirely, Population: You < 1289319699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, no :P it'd have to go at the start of the article < 1289319704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{contradict}} at the top of the article < 1289319708 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely there are many other people. < 1289319712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1289319714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1289319721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is indeed prejudice against IPs, unfortunately < 1289319744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty silly as there's no reason not to create an account, especially if you're vandalising, so if you don't create an account, it hardly implies anything < 1289319771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * (cur | prev) 16:21, 9 November 2010 91.105.90.101 (talk) (8,782 bytes) (I don't think "supporting most of GCC inline assembly" is a *limitation*; it is mentioned in the introduction already, too. Please change this if you disagree, but please don't treat it as vandalism.) (undo) < 1289319786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: heh, from your edit summary I can guess the page < 1289319828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was wrong < 1289319832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now let's see if their Huggle VandalismProtector Automated.NETCrapThatNeverDoesAnythingUseful RevertAnythingThatDeletesMoreThanThreeCharactersAndWasWrittenByAnIPBot can read edit summaries! < 1289319839 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gasps < 1289319839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, which did you guess? clang? < 1289319854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (p.s. fuck those automated editors, they're worthless and harmful) < 1289319866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IWC doesn't have all options covered in today's poll! < 1289319870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, I got the wrong compiler < 1289319882 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to send an ANGRY EMAIL. < 1289319882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's TCC < 1289319897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, just contributionsed your IP < 1289319902 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289319917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, igloo is manually attended, thus you should be able to contact its operator to explain < 1289319934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I left an irritated-but-sickeningly-polite message on his talk page. < 1289319947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, what is this Tag bullshit? < 1289319949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Tags < 1289319950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1289319954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if it's any comfort, knee-jerk reactions happen to me too < 1289319970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's an edit classifier based on simple rules, to help give recent-changes patrollers more info < 1289319974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they have tags just so they can pretend a stupid heuristic can determine vandalism. < 1289319976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1289319976 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | < 1289319977 0 :myndzi\!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/< < 1289319990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, [[Wikipedia:Tags]] is pretty clear that just because an edit is tagged doesn't mean it's vandalism < 1289319994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people tend to ignore that, for some reason < 1289320014 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Recent changes patrollers are *useless*, I know some people I know have messed with (a completely unread and probably-shouldn't-even-exist-in-its-state-really) article voer months and it hasn't been noticed. < 1289320027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they aren't completely useless, but they do miss a lot < 1289320069 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*over < 1289320084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, even if he thought your edit was vandalism, he should have tagged it {{uw-b1}}, not {{uw-v1}} < 1289320102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowadays, RC/NP patrollers are too busy to care about things like that, it seems < 1289320120 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it was a pretty rude first-time warning. < 1289320141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh. I only edit wikipedia about stuff *I'd* look up just because it irks me to see the inaccuracies :P < 1289320143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uw-v1 is probably the rudest of the first-times, I only use it when it's clear that someone wasn't being constructive < 1289320164 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "hasn't noticed obscure vandalism" != "useless at reverting vandalism". < 1289320178 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obscure, heh. < 1289320187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you might be interested to know that ClueBot's creator has created ClueBot II, which uses a neural network to detect vandalism < 1289320193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vandalism can be obvious regardless of the page it's on, and articles aren't ordered by length in recent changes. < 1289320198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's claiming a 5% false-positive and 30% false-negative rate < 1289320207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I'm really not interested in the Typical WP Apologist spiel because it's crap. < 1289320213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh joy... 5% < 1289320231 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only a 20th! < 1289320254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was approved for trial, but changed to have a 0.25% false positive rate < 1289320257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you believe it? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Befunge/index.php is generating useful discussion < 1289320265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it picks up a full *two thirds* of vandalism < 1289320268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should adopt this as our new anti-spam technology < 1289320280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it was apparently detecting its own reverts as vandalism < 1289320288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whenever a page is vandalised, create an esolang < 1289320313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/ClueBot_NG if you're interested < 1289320334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how NG has replaced 2. < 1289320340 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In code. < 1289320353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, we need a word like "technology" that means the ... cultural context of programming < 1289320353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1289320356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NG has replaced 2 in technology." < 1289320369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NG has replaced 2 in THE BLOGODODECAHEDRON." < 1289320374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"NG has replaced 2 in the coderflurk." < 1289320386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do you intend keep the target false positive rate at 0.25%? (for editors new to this discussion, that's 0.25% of every edit examined; the number of incorrect reversions will be well over the two and a half per every 1000 rollbacks by the bot that might seem to be indicated by the raw percentage.) If so, then as the dataset improves, the threshold for reversion will simply be lowered to continue to meet 0.25% target, resulting in < 1289320387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more vandalism reverted, but new and exciting false positives to replace the ones that have been eliminated. This is why, in the discussion above, I suggested that a 0.1% false positives target would be more conducive to community acceptance of the bot, and ultimate approval. < 1289320399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the idea of "new and exciting false positives" < 1289320405 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289320414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least someone gets it < 1289320428 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1289320447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sad thing is, the bot is likely more accurate than human RC patrollers anyway < 1289320479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thanks I appreciate you reverting vandalism to my talk, but I personally prefer to keep it." --[[User talk:Peter Karlsen]] < 1289320487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AKoavf&action=historysubmit&diff=393840880&oldid=393840775 < 1289320502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't *everyone* want a section titled "hey you idiot" with the text "Why don't you fuck off and leave me alone?" on their talk page? < 1289320513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahaha < 1289320518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone added an {{unsigned}} to it < 1289320525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the page owner put it back < 1289320531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SineBot, or a human? < 1289320538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: human < 1289320544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beeblebrox < 1289320557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why isn't {{unsigned}} part of MediaWiki? < 1289320561 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Phantom_Hoover: I'm really not interested in the Typical WP Apologist spiel because it's crap.]] — WP < 1289320565 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, wait. < 1289320572 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid copy and paste. < 1289320575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OH RIGHT, to allow free-form pages that we're going to regulate away with stupid policy upon policy < 1289320578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? < 1289320584 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# ^ Oliveira, Rui (2006). The Power of Cobol. City: BookSurge Publishing. ISBN 0620346523. ]] — WP < 1289320594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why Phantom_Hoover copied that previous one :P < 1289320596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if ClueBot NG would just revert anything by comex < 1289320606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does comex vandalise a lot? :P < 1289320613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was a Bayes reference < 1289320620 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that ... beyond obscure < 1289320625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (bayes is its own person!) < 1289320647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Felix (his name, apparently) replied to my quotes of you! < 1289320653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think he's wrong now. < 1289320655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for why {{unsigned}} isn't part of MediaWiki, often you don't want signatures, and technology isn't good enough to work it out always < 1289320659 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Of course he's wrong. < 1289320666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SineBot errs on the false-negative side, IIRC < 1289320667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I mean his reply. < 1289320680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Judging by his "FAQ", I can only assume his replies are wrong too :P < 1289320700 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://sprunge.us/iEgP He seems to have basically acknowledged what he said but in a slightly strange way. < 1289320719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (i.e. not saying it's illegal, but saying that yes, the sources are then GPL-licensed for that purpose) < 1289320794 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, everyone who's not Gregor: you're not allowed to click that link < 1289320797 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a private email! :-P < 1289320809 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, his wording is bizarre but he seems to more-or-less agree. Maybe his confusion is that he thinks that the BSD prevents you from relicensing it under GPL. Or something. Idonno. It doesn't matter though, because whatever his misunderstandings of the GPL are, the license is still the license. < 1289320819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clicking the link does nothing anyway < 1289320825 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: shaddap :) < 1289320831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, I'd just rather not get him angry if I use it. :P < 1289320841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm thinkin' I'll just use uClibc though. Because... why not? < 1289320843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I saw someone on Slashdot a while ago arguing that the MIT license banned distributing binaries without source < 1289320852 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wat < 1289320859 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But, but it has GNU stuff in it D-8 < 1289320864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure if he was trolling, or just very confused; I suspect trolling < 1289320880 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I will never cease to be astounded at how license-stupid people are. < 1289320884 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really not that complicated. < 1289320933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is this coherent? [[ < 1289320934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but the BSD license allows relicensing under the GPL, and it doesn't affect the license of the "code itself", just the code as part of the distribution.]] < 1289320945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: almost < 1289320946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get... well, that, across, but it's difficult to word it. < 1289320953 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Putting "code itself" in quotes makes that even more confusing. < 1289320987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can create your own code based on code licensed under BSD, and license your code under the GPL despite the BSD code in it. That doesn't prevent the original still being BSD, though." < 1289321017 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, but the BSD license is broad enough to allow recipients to relicense the code, even under the GPL. This doesn't affect the original author's grant of the BSD license, it just means that the person linking the BSD code with your GPL code has chosen to relicense the BSD code under GPL for further redistribution. < 1289321019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is true for BSD3 -> GPL2/3, and BSD4->GPL3) < 1289321027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the code is unmodified, though :) < 1289321028 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started with your wording, but then I went all wonky :P < 1289321028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a binary < 1289321040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm stealin' it :P < 1289321042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, you're still basing what you're doing on that binary < 1289321063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I added a BSD binary unmodified to a GPL project, I wouldn't change the copyright notices on it to GPL < 1289321068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sent off a reply, let's hope he doesn't get annoyed :-) < 1289321073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though technically I could < 1289321086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know Gregor, I can't blame people for being license-stupid. < 1289321092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because this shit is retarded. < 1289321100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually I don't see how this doesn't legitimise the CLISP case. < 1289321192 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Because in the CLISP case, you're violating the GPL by compiling your code with the GPL'd interface. CLISP was not under a GPL-compatible license. Admittedly that's shaky ground, I don't think anyone's denying that it's shaky and kinda silly, but there is still a linking of incompatible licenses if you consider the interface to be copyrightable. < 1289321233 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If CLISP had been under a GPL-compatible license, and the sum was redistributed under the GPL, it would've been fine. But the binaries were redistributed under a non-GPL license. < 1289321247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The *binaries* but not the source? < 1289321250 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Now* i am confused. < 1289321303 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Redistributing source that no one can redistribute binaries of due to its dependence on libreadline is totally legal, if a bit absurd. Redistributing BINARIES of that source linked to readline, if the binaries can't be redistributed under the GPL, is illegal. < 1289321344 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the binaries constitute bits of both sources, so need to fall under both licenses. < 1289321369 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I forget, what license was CLISP under at the time? < 1289321375 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I too forget :P < 1289321384 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: it was open, was it not? < 1289321392 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, actually. < 1289321408 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I forget. I know it was GPL-incompatible. < 1289321439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I still don't think that "ld -o z x y" makes x a derivative work of y. < 1289321480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Same way "ld -o lol core-windows-lib my-code-licensed-under-a-viral-literally-sperm-stealing-license" doesn't compel Bill Gates to open up his testicles and extract their contents. < 1289321485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To use a realistic example.) < 1289321530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wtf is a Researcher < 1289321534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The 'researcher' group was created in April 2010 to allow individuals explicitly approved by the Wikimedia Foundation to search deleted pages and view deleted history entries without their associated text.]] < 1289321559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reappears. < 1289321571 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ld -o z x y does not make x a derivative work of y, it makes z a derivative work of y. < 1289321588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: However, its also a derivative work of x, so x and y have to be under compatible licenses. < 1289321610 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And furthermore, y's license indicates that the whole shebang has to be distributed under the GPL, which requires including sources. < 1289321612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's a very specific usergroup, that's only ever been used once, and is only granted by direct request to the Wikimedia Foundation < 1289321626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows the histories of deleted pages, but not the deleted revisions themselves < 1289321687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who was it granted to? < 1289321701 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bleh :P < 1289321811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I can check if you like < 1289321814 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At no point was the issue CLISP's sources. The issue was always the redistribution of compiled stuff. < 1289321823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't mind that much < 1289321824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the person gets loads of talkpage questions saying "what's a researcher?" < 1289321857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Okay, what about Bruno's proposed solution: distribute {clisp.o, libnoreadline.a}. < 1289321862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libnoreadline.a is obviously just a stub out. < 1289321872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: clisp.o is perfectly redistributable. libnoreadline.a too, it's his work. < 1289321878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is there anything at all illegal about distributing this? < 1289321929 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he had also written his own noreadline.h, which had an identical interface to readline.h, then it should be legal modulo the fact that copyright law tends to turn fuzzy around the issue of evasion (going out of your way to fake something just to avoid being strictly derivative != not being derivative) < 1289321949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stop right there! I'm going to introduce something. < 1289321950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libedit < 1289321955 0 :Zuu!zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1289321963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: This is an interface-identical, BSD-licensed reimplementation of readline. < 1289321968 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect. Do it. < 1289321975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying that... < 1289321987 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Stuff using libedit could be counted as derivative of libreadline? < 1289321988 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1289321992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fucking way. < 1289322000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or editline, whatever, same thing as libedit.) < 1289322027 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, copyright law is fucky like that. That being said, you're probably in a safer case since editline is actually an implementation, not just a stub to maintain compatibility. It's not really evasion, it's new code. < 1289322048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: libnoreadline would be an implementation... just one for dumb terminals. < 1289322099 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're trying to over-logic copyright law here :P < 1289322105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1289322105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sigh. < 1289322107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck copyright. < 1289322173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: omg < 1289322181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ If someone was to turn the readline library into a shared library < 1289322181 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a library that is needed at runtime by the executable, but not < 1289322182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : contained in the executable): < 1289322182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Would that mean that any executable that uses a readline < 1289322182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : shared lib would have to be accompanied with full source? < 1289322182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes.]] --rms < 1289322189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: imagine a program that dlopens all of /lib and /usr/lib < 1289322207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It has to be under a license compatible with the licenses of every library on the system. < 1289322278 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dlopening != using. Plus I think you're far enough off the issue of evasion there that it's not a big problem. Also the shared-library issue has strictly never been tested in any court anywhere, and probably won't stand up except on the fact that you're still compiling against the interfaces. < 1289322304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so a minor (legally) technical detail (static vs dynamic) affects the whole legal situation < 1289322322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY GUYS REMEMBER WHEN WE TRIED TO REGULATE BITS ON COMPUTERS AS IF THEY WERE SCARCE PHYSICAL OBJECTS? < 1289322327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WENT GREAT DIDN'T IT < 1289322336 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, copyright law is wildly unsuitable to what it's being used for. < 1289322339 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We all know this :P < 1289322350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, copyright law is wildly unsuitable[.] < 1289322371 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iceweasel is the crashiest program ever jesus christ < 1289322407 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it tastes like butterflies. < 1289322712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ iceweasel crashing by the second < 1289322714 0 :sftp_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289322730 0 :sftp_!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289323108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pax is the easiest way to extract cpios, right? < 1289323212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cpio seems simple enough < 1289323505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, dd/sh can be done without dd! < 1289323536 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need mkfifo, sleep ("optionally"), and kill (I think) < 1289323538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://shellscripts.org/projects/d/ddprogress/version_1/dd.sh < 1289323547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus rm and chmod, if you're crazy and bloated < 1289323575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, didn't realise dd/sh was so old: circa 1999 or older < 1289323757 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That hurts my brain :P < 1289323781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while (return 0); do < 1289323781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : dd 2>/dev/null <&1" does the obvious. < 1289323897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"exec 2>&1" does the obvious. < 1289323899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops. < 1289323919 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Your service manager didn't restart it? <-- well, I typed dmesg and it showed some hard lockup thingy then everything crashed (screen went weird). < 1289323928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also argh the weather < 1289323935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: But didn't it restart it?!?!/1111 < 1289323965 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, arch uses bsd style init < 1289323969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not so nice < 1289324000 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, find me a good rolling release *linux* distro that isn't gentoo (or other "compile everything yourself) < 1289324007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/)/")/ < 1289324011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Kitten. (No, seriously, I'm working on it. I am.) < 1289324021 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, was netbsd based < 1289324024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc? < 1289324026 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: NetBSD probably hates my network card. < 1289324030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So fuck that." < 1289324059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: If you want a filthy proprietary graphics card, you may have to rebuild the kernel package to allow modules. :P < 1289324065 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah, perhaps you can do like debian and make Kitten/Linux (I doubt it will be gnu linux in your case!), Kitten/BSD and so on < 1289324083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and don't forget Kitten/Internix and Kitten/Hurd < 1289324084 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289324086 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what rms wants non-GNU-based Linux distros to be called. < 1289324089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Evil"?) < 1289324136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goddamn crazy Firefox ;__; < 1289324138 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Namoroka is having trouble recovering your windows and tabs. This is usually caused by a recently opened web page." .... < 1289324145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ha! < 1289324148 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear to God... I just reopened firefox < 1289324150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loaded reddit < 1289324151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scrolled < 1289324153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by the time I scrolled < 1289324155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox had crashed < 1289324157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it scrolled the Emacs window. < 1289324160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear. To God. < 1289324162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That just happened. < 1289324179 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which page. Perhaps cr.yp.to. nah that page couldn't crash anything... < 1289324186 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wikipedia < 1289324187 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it says that whenever it crashes < 1289324196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure why, it never has trouble recovering if you tell it to < 1289324198 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm... < 1289324205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cr.yp.to? Installing daemontools? :P < 1289324207 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it said it when it couldn't recover proeprly < 1289324210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For your SYSLOGGERY? < 1289324216 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, I was looking at qmail license stuff < 1289324223 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, the lack of it < 1289324228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's public domain now. < 1289324233 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed. < 1289324240 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... slightly ... more reassuring than no terms at all. < 1289324261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cr.yp.to/qmail/toaster.html wish this was an actual toaster. < 1289324282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[What operating systems does qmail support? < 1289324282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: qmail works on practically all UNIX systems: AIX, BSD/OS, FreeBSD, HP/UX, Irix, Linux, NetBSD, OpenBSD, OSF/1, SunOS, Solaris, etc. It automatically adapts itself to new UNIX variants. < 1289324282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qmail does not support Windows NT.]] < 1289324287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O RLY < 1289324316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why is qmail installed under /var? Aren't programs supposed to be in /usr? Aren't configuration files supposed to be in /etc? < 1289324316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: Some sites have clusters of machines that NFS-mount a single /usr disk. Files can't go in /usr unless they are the same on every machine. (This used to be much more common than it is now.) The qmail programs depend on uids that are often different on every machine; for example, the qmail-queue program is setuid qmailq." < 1289324319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting! I hate Unix. < 1289324364 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I would blame the, er, interesting, design choices of qmail here < 1289324396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like the qmail uids (it uses several) being set at compile time iirc < 1289324401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers *not* reinventing the wheel for once in the course of reinventing the wheel < 1289324416 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? what wheel specifically? < 1289324474 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Parsing HTTP! < 1289324487 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we take a moment to give mad props to the inventor of the wheel? < 1289324490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I might just use https://github.com/ry/http-parser, because it's stupidly fast (hand-written). < 1289324491 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cuz seriously, that shit pwns. < 1289324494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No, fuck him, mine is better. < 1289324498 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's three-dimensional. < 1289324501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I call it the speer. < 1289324523 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idonno, sounds kinda like this "sphere" thing I remember hearing about ... < 1289324551 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1289324563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seriously, where does Firefox log crashes? < 1289324563 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http generally has a quite simple format: \r\n[: \r\n, ...]\r\n\r\n < 1289324569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me it logs crashes. < 1289324574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not terribly hard to parse by hand < 1289324577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...You think I don't know this? < 1289324584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: By "hand-written" I mean "insanely optimised hand-written". < 1289324588 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1289324597 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how? < 1289324603 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It refuses to even compare something to two strings if they share a prefix. It'll do the prefix first. < 1289324604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit like that. < 1289324611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not entirely sane. < 1289324615 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1289324623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, seriously, it's been benchmarked. < 1289324637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Take a look if you don't believe me: https://github.com/ry/http-parser/blob/master/http_parser.c < 1289324638 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what do you mean "It'll do the prefix first."? < 1289324653 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll compare the string to the prefix, and only then compare against the rest of the string < 1289324657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wants to recognise foo vs fob < 1289324660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll compare to fo first < 1289324663 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then o vs. b < 1289324669 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the sane thing (compare to foo, compare to fob) < 1289324677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, several screens of lookup tables... < 1289324688 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large is the compiled result? < 1289324692 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Small. < 1289324698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can measure. < 1289324742 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well that thing is quite sane < 1289324750 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb urg < 1289324874 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1289324901 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, anyway, that prefix thing is sane. I remember when reading mosaic code it used something like that for HTML tags < 1289324962 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it would be nice if there was some tool to auto generate that sort of prefix-checking code tree for a number of keywords. Hm chances are one exists already... < 1289324970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/http-parser$ ls -lh http_parser.o < 1289324970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 18K Nov 9 17:48 http_parser.o < 1289324970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott@dinky:~/http-parser$ ls -lh http_parser.o < 1289324970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rw-r--r-- 1 elliott elliott 16K Nov 9 17:48 http_parser.o < 1289324971 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second with -Os < 1289324993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah that would be nice < 1289325002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: also something that automated casting to bigger pointer < 1289325005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to read more < 1289325019 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, uh XD < 1289325022 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1289325027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ? < 1289325030 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: like glibc strlen < 1289325031 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the endianness issues < 1289325037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: glibc does it < 1289325048 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but it only looks for a 0-byte < 1289325066 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then looks inside that word to see which one it was < 1289325076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So condition on endianness? Not hard. < 1289325092 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the error: < 1289325093 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how do you plan to support middle-endian cleanly? < 1289325096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(stderr, "error: "); < 1289325096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : vfprintf(stderr, format, va); < 1289325096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fprintf(stderr, ": %s\n", strerror(errno)); < 1289325098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't < 1289325103 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good answer < 1289325110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now spot the error :P < 1289325114 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, supporting middle-endian is worse than not supporting it :P < 1289325127 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wtf at that code. < 1289325138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what's wtf about it apart from the error < 1289325152 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, upon what side are you (pl.) on the Endian War? < 1289325162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Err, are you trying to print out the thing you failed to print out to describe the error of failing to print it out..... < 1289325164 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little endian. < 1289325182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With little endian, casting to a smaller pointer truncates the value. < 1289325184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is nice. < 1289325188 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: not my code < 1289325190 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Little endian is strictly superior. For exactly that reason. < 1289325197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a firm little-endian. < 1289325200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hi5 Gregor < 1289325203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it uses fprintf instead of fputs for the first constant string < 1289325207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The error is, of course, that errno might change. < 1289325212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...that's what jumped out at you? < 1289325218 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ohduhhhhhhhhhhh X-D < 1289325224 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might and almost assuredly will :P < 1289325232 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that < 1289325249 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I think errno is a rather stupid idea < 1289325265 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is exactly why it's OK to be racist against global variables. < 1289325268 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return value indicating what error is nicer < 1289325283 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than indicating *an* error happened < 1289325288 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you then need to check errno < 1289325293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ITT: multiple return values < 1289325295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Go fixed this :P) < 1289325305 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, return (a,b) would be nice < 1289325307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Globals are fine, just not globals that mutate like *that*. < 1289325319 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, global constants are fine :P < 1289325323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Or just pass "errno" as a pointer as the last argument, NULL meaning "I don't care". < 1289325332 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dostuf(..., &err); < 1289325357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*dostuff < 1289325358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, heck, sometimes dynamic typing is nice. "Returns the length on success, otherwise the tuple (error, atom-indicating-type-of-error) < 1289325359 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1289325361 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1289325368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ...no thanks < 1289325379 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah dynamic typing has downsides too of course < 1289325382 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least have it as < 1289325389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returns (OK, len) on success < 1289325392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else (ERR, error) < 1289325395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a la haskell < 1289325396 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, good point < 1289325415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* If a filename is made up of entirely unsafe chars, < 1289325415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * the url would be three times its original length. < 1289325415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : */ < 1289325415 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char safe_url[MAXNAMLEN*3 + 1]; < 1289325417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289325438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably get over my C99ophobia. < 1289325507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1289325507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iam designing a new server which needs to support thousands( somewhere between 100,000 sessions) of udp connections. What is the best polling method to use for socket FD's. I have read that epoll is better than select/poll. Any input or suggestions on which one to use. Thanks." < 1289325513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hundreds of thousands of UDP CONNECTIONS! < 1289325543 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pah @ people suggesting to use libev. That's other people's software, I can't use that!) < 1289325548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(All I want is the epoll man page :p) < 1289325552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just does it locally < 1289325589 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always do it locally too < 1289325593 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, VLAs? Avoid unless you are sure that the upper size would fit on stack < 1289325607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you talking about my C99ophobia? < 1289325630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i have no real justification for it, and declarations later in the function would be nice < 1289325631 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well yes, from the context it seemed likely to concern VLAs < 1289325634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes me uneasy < 1289325635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1289325637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't my code < 1289325643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, for (int i ...) is also quite nice :P < 1289325654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: eww, dunno if i'll ever be able to cope with that < 1289325665 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I always use strict ANSI C89 :P < 1289325669 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why? Why would int i; at the top be better < 1289325680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why would C be better, i'm using c cuz i'm a moron like everyone else < 1289325686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: don't you ever miss declarations later though < 1289325687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sure do < 1289325696 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, it pains me. < 1289325704 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But my code compiles on retarded compilers X-P < 1289325705 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, if you have multiple loops in the function that nicely limits *that* i to that loop, Makes code clearer < 1289325706 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The cost of a select call goes roughly with the value of the highest numbered file descriptor you pass it. If you select on a single fd, 100, then that's roughly twice as expensive as selecting on a single fd, 50." < 1289325708 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w. t. f. < 1289325724 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :W. T. F. < 1289325728 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either reusing same i and not using the value from the old iteration. Or having: int i,j,k; at the top? < 1289325751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: imo c should just reserve ijkl as ints initialised to zero. < 1289325752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in every scope < 1289325755 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, select() is stupid. Use epoll/kqueue and so on < 1289325765 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish posix would standardlise *one* of them < 1289325766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epoll looks complicated futzy and i'll do it later. < 1289325773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but seriously < 1289325776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf @ that quote. < 1289325782 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, poll() is better than select() in general < 1289325791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1289325815 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, less stupid interface to work with. And on Linux select() maps to poll() in libc iirc. < 1289325827 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though on *bsd it is the other way around iirc < 1289325841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The set of file descriptors to be monitored is specified in the fds < 1289325841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : argument, which is an array of structures of the following form: < 1289325841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1289325858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm going complexity, I'm going to use epoll :) < 1289325865 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you want to know what fd_set is? < 1289325868 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't :P < 1289325871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I don't :P < 1289325877 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, and that is what select() uses... < 1289325884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though ... why is selecting a higher fd more expensive. < 1289325919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Debian 6.0 "Squeeze" will also be accompanied by variants based on the FreeBSD kernel for amd64 and i386 machines, together with the GNU libc and userland as a "technology preview".]] < 1289325928 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, *iirc* because fd_set is like a bitmask or some such. so that fd n means it sets some bit at some offset related to the value of n < 1289325928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Users of these versions however should be warned that the quality of these ports is still catching up with the outstanding high quality of our Linux ports]] <-- self-congratulatory press releases, yay < 1289325953 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more than one bit per fd iirc < 1289325963 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Technology Preview" < 1289325965 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds MS-y :P < 1289325972 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, to indicate monitoring, event, error and so on < 1289325977 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Says the Microsoft dude. < 1289325996 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Exactly why I have the necessary experience to make that statement :P < 1289326009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever, goatfucker. < 1289326016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's what they do at MS Research all day.) < 1289326025 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heynow! < 1289326032 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a whole variety of barnyard animals. < 1289326048 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly the goats are usually preferred, but the sheep are right up there too. < 1289326054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "But you fuck one goat..." < 1289326084 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it that even Mac OS X's top command is totally fucking useless. < 1289326102 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, useless how? < 1289326105 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: What's wrong with it? < 1289326106 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, like normal top? < 1289326108 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its default sorting is by pid. < 1289326110 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY FUCKING PID < 1289326110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You an htop noob weenie? :P < 1289326112 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer htop < 1289326115 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way better than top < 1289326115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: noob weenie < 1289326121 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hm? < 1289326131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh Gregor is? < 1289326136 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1289326148 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, you should be able to change the order < 1289326153 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can. < 1289326157 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always use top -o cpu < 1289326159 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you are Vorpal < 1289326161 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you use htop < 1289326162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weenie < 1289326165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the default should not be retarded. < 1289326169 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but which key in top allow you to attach strace to the process? < 1289326185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ^Cattach-strace pid < 1289326191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yeah but that is more work < 1289326195 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use htop because it has nice features normal top doesn't. < 1289326197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what she said. < 1289326203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why do you hate htop? < 1289326210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :htop killed my brother. < 1289326216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott just doesn't like to top. < 1289326217 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, seriously... < 1289326225 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, XD < 1289326226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Implement bottom(1). Now. < 1289326243 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It connects to a top(1) process. < 1289326245 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err Gregor XD < 1289326246 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1289326277 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It "receives" data from a top(1) process, shall we say. < 1289326289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, texlive-core-2010.20288-1 is 103 MB? < 1289326292 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1289326303 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large yes, but over 100 MB? < 1289326307 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. It receives packets. Over and over. < 1289326313 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And processes them. < 1289326326 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The entirety of TeX Live is a few gibibytes. < 1289326341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows how. < 1289326342 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, It grown since the first version < 1289326342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or why. < 1289326347 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Its interface is kinda painful to use, but only at first. You get used to it. < 1289326358 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I mean, I was pretty sure texlive was a few hundred MB in *total* < 1289326363 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and core was like 60 MB < 1289326383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here we go *installs updates* < 1289326389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If your network device is in promiscuous mode, you can attach it to multiple top(1)s at once. < 1289326397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, it's always been gigs < 1289326401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for OS X < 1289326409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both texlive updates and openoffice updates I see... < 1289326411 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs a towel. < 1289326550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just had an occasion to install TeX Live on OS X (well, MACTeX or whatever they call it; it's TeX Live 2010 anyway) and the download .mpkg.zip was around 1.5 GiB; I think it unpacked to 2.7 GiB or something. < 1289326739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha -- it is Flash that is crashing. < 1289327236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst httpd name: ritalin! It calms down the hypertext (transfer protocol). < 1289327239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow I am crap at names. < 1289327252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(To boot, it's probably not very allowed to use that name.) < 1289327388 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Debian updating every day? < 1289327408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, surely things aren't that incomplete. < 1289327411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's called Squeeze. < 1289327417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the in-development release. < 1289327422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Right now, no new features are being added. < 1289327425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But bug fixes are. < 1289327430 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cobolportal.com/index.asp?bhcp=1 I am suddenly deathly afraid. < 1289327433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you think software isn't that buggy, ha ha ha. < 1289327439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : “COBOL Under .NET: An Easy Evolution” AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGH < 1289327454 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: After Squeeze is released, testing will change name to whatever the next Debian release will be called, and you will start receiving new features. < 1289327471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things may break! But not very much; unstable (sid) is what gets all the breakage, and then the stuff that works filters down into testing. < 1289327480 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stable itself is always a few years out of date.) < 1289327491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, a few months to two years. Still.) < 1289327503 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why won't COBOL just roll over and DIE? < 1289327509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sgeo < 1289327518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Call it "methyl-phenyl(piperidin-2-yl)acetated"; I doubt they can restrict the use of the IUPAC systematic-name. < 1289327521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better languages have done so for no good reason. < 1289327545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No. :P < 1289327558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's because of the B, one would think. < 1289327590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Because of the... B? < 1289327594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1289327595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see. < 1289327665 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you refer to COOL? < 1289327757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is the whole "Business-Oriented" bit a backronym? So many things are; I don't think that was, though. < 1289327759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Business. < 1289327764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 'Snot, no. < 1289327767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snot? No! < 1289327851 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, we must now ask a difficult question. Will murdering Sgeo assist the death of COBOL? < 1289327866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. But let's pretend it will! < 1289327870 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I do not think we actually should) < 1289327881 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, there are plenty of other reasons to do so! < 1289327889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a filthy Jew! < 1289327905 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He prevents ActiveWorlds from dying! < 1289327922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because he's a Jew! < 1289327953 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@i-169.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1289328036 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait! < 1289328044 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a better idea! < 1289328076 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We keep him and use him for torture of our enemies! < 1289328096 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even those whiny little gits at Amnesty won't be able to complain! < 1289328604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Os vs -O2: DUKE IT OUT < 1289328679 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's Anglo-Jewish blood is boiling. < 1289328685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Shut up, Jew. < 1289328799 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, is that Jews from England, or was one of your parents Jewish and the other English (or variations thereon). < 1289328810 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter < 1289328815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually both kinda. < 1289328817 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMBIGUITY IS INTOLERABLE < 1289328818 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But mainly latter :P < 1289328830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Who said you could speak, Jew?! < 1289328846 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father's family is English, my mother's mother's family is English, my mother's father's family is Ashkenazi Jewish. < 1289328875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the important thing is that they're all Jews! Also, unwashed! < 1289328884 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a variation on the latter, unless your mother's father was also English. < 1289328904 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, did you come over from England when you were born or something? < 1289328917 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, my family is totally American, I'm just talking about heritage :P < 1289328919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. He was born in Jewland. < 1289328960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It's the Wertheimer family, which is an Ashkenazi Jewish family via England. So they're Anglo in locale but Ashkenazi by race or something. But locale is irrelevant since I'm just talking about heritage here :P < 1289328980 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're like Anglo Anglo Anglo-Jewish? < 1289328988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO ENGLISH < 1289328995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ENGLISH SCUMBAG < 1289329010 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like that, yeah. < 1289329025 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats Gregor over the head with bagpipes, plays haggis at him and feeds him a claymore. < 1289329042 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things I got from the Jewish side of my family are my nose, my money sense, and my keen sense of Jewish stereotypes. < 1289329067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO JEWY < 1289329070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU JEWY SCUMBAG < 1289329081 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, shut up, you English bastard! < 1289329087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION http://hipsterhitler.com/ < 1289329088 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls some r's. < 1289329097 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Best comic ever, btw.) < 1289329115 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm technically IRISH as well! < 1289329134 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: But since the Irish are technically Scots, that's kinda boring. < 1289329141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And GAY! And a VAMPIRE! < 1289329143 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, ah, no! < 1289329150 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Scots are technically Irish! < 1289329156 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, is it that way 'round? < 1289329158 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You English FOOL! < 1289329197 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Scots were some Irishmen who thought "hey, maybe we should go to Scotland! It'll be so cool!" < 1289329238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The MIPS-X was a processor supported by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. The Programmer's Manual for this chip describes an HSC (Halt and Spontaneously Combust) instruction, that is only found in a version of the processor designed for the National Security Agency.[7] The manual entry is a joke, and does not describe a genuine feature of the CPU.]] < 1289329241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone got shot at dawn for that one! < 1289329359 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pff. < 1289329370 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NSA is just covering up their true intentions. < 1289329446 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Because some people consider "Not a typewriter" to be a confusing message some systems display a different confusing message such as "Inappropriate ioctl for device" instead.]] --Wikipedia < 1289329469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...the leftover ENOTTY will result in an utterly inappropriate "Not a typewriter" (or "Not a teletype", or "Inappropriate ioctl for device") being delivered to the flabbergasted user." --Wikipedia < 1289329553 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be "Not a teapot" < 1289329604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a doctor < 1289329625 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E_NoTitty < 1289329645 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Antimammic input detected" < 1289329649 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1289329657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE BERKELEY SOCKETS < 1289329661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just getting that out there < 1289329705 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for you < 1289329710 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you just hate everything < 1289329710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very < 1289329713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: well, yes. < 1289329719 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: in my defence, everything sucks. < 1289329728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: or at least, 90% is a vast underestimation < 1289329733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sturgeon wasn't one for figures. < 1289329756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if something sucks it may not deserve to be hated < 1289329777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: give me a reason not to hate berkeley sockets :) < 1289329886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: give me a reason to hate them < 1289329907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it sucks major ass < 1289329939 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, so does everything else :) < 1289329954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: plan 9's sockets are nice < 1289329994 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, what do they do differently? < 1289330001 0 :JS47dV!~pan0m9nSC@69.73.223.197 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289330001 0 :JS47dV!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FREENODE IS MAKING THE SWITCH TO SASL. JOIN #FREENODE AND/OR /MSG A STAFF FOR MORE INFO. < 1289330001 0 :JS47dV!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289330008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl. < 1289330013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: er, everything :) < 1289330047 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, plan9 has the /dev/tcp/host/port thingy don't they? < 1289330061 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /doesn't it < 1289330070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not called that, and it's a lot more sophisticated than just jamming hosts and ports in (it has a ctl file and stuff) < 1289330081 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but here's the C api: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/magic/man2html/2/dial < 1289330117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (the examples are a bit outdated :)) < 1289330273 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: unstdio: < 1289330274 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hey, if I got an Olde-Fashionede mechanical typewriter and set it up so that I pressed the keys and the computer controlled the hammers... < 1289330274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define writes(fd, s) write(fd, s, sizeof(s)-1) < 1289330274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define writeu(fd, s) write(fd, s, strlen(s)) < 1289330281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dear god < 1289330301 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god this is so AWESOME. < 1289330318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is what you meant to say! < 1289330392 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backspacing would be the coolest thing ever. < 1289330433 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf ~X/binX/*! < 1289330436 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: looking good, looking good < 1289330457 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggy with the normal write function of course... < 1289330608 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must find a mechanical typewriter! < 1289330625 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then make it USB! < 1289330630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: only as buggy as fwrite < 1289330727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so, :P < 1289330743 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as buggy as the thing it wraps yes < 1289330752 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't wrap, fix < 1289330787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: uhh, what i'm saying is < 1289330795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: fwrite can also write -(-sizeof "abc"+1) = -(-4+1) = 3 < 1289332010 0 :lilja_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ~ Trillian Astra - www.trillian.im ~ < 1289332040 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: You are a bad person and I hate you. < 1289332068 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (Seriously. You are awful.) < 1289332069 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just go ahead and take that as a compliment < 1289332124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: awful < 1289332143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, < 1289332144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file -i httpd.c | cut -d' ' -f2- < 1289332144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text/x-c; charset=us-ascii < 1289332154 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even handles directories! < 1289332158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :application/x-directory; charset=binary < 1289332160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy thing < 1289332213 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a mime type for directories? < 1289332222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "x-", so no, not really. < 1289332276 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's not "x-director"? :) < 1289332313 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(google is so sure you're wrong it just goes ahead and googles something different for you) < 1289332351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup :) < 1289332366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=x-directory&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a#hl=en&client=iceweasel-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:unofficial&&sa=X&ei=b6bZTJbjCOaV4gbn2qS8CA&ved=0CBEQvgUoAA&q=%2B%22application/x-directory%22&nfpr=1&fp=8ec2bc6eb6ca6ae0 < 1289332392 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what an ugly url, also including my previous search, nice privacy violation < 1289332453 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a "link to this search" address or something < 1289332503 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: or just sane urls always < 1289332512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say... http://google.com/search?q=foo+bar+baz < 1289332562 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, they could just use cookies for all the crud < 1289332658 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: or not have the crud at all (why does my browser matter? why are you putting "utf-8" there, what is that even for? &aq=t???) < 1289332702 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your a-queue is t, obviously < 1289332740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: oh clearly. < 1289333126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: char buf[LOG10(MAX_UINT)]; < 1289333129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define LOG10(n) \ < 1289333129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (((n) >= 1000000000) ? 9 : ((n) >= 100000000) ? 8 : ((n) >= 10000000) ? 7 : \ < 1289333129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((n) >= 1000000) ? 6 : ((n) >= 100000) ? 5 : ((n) >= 10000) ? 4 : \ < 1289333129 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((n) >= 1000) ? 3 : ((n) >= 100) ? 2 : ((n) >= 10) ? 1 : 0)) < 1289333140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, that fails for >32-bit :) < 1289333327 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what am I looking at? :) < 1289333341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: me trying to write a writeud function < 1289333351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and failing because of my aversion to malloc < 1289333366 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should actually be LOG10(MAX_UINT)+1 heh < 1289333390 0 :sftp!~sftp@79.174.50.208 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289333390 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writeud here is essentially printf's %u? < 1289333391 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You should do clever things with sizeof instead. < 1289333400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...go on... < 1289333405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1289333405 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sizeof(int) >= 10 -> at least 4 < 1289333414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: *unsigned int < 1289333420 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now make it handle every possible bit size :P < 1289333427 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like 1+sizeof(int)*8*ceil(log10/log2) < 1289333432 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yours doesn't handle every possible bit size. < 1289333437 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But mine at least doesn't overflow in weird ways. < 1289333438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which is a bug. < 1289333462 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You could write mine for up to 65,536-bit words and still not overflow on any reasonable system :P < 1289333475 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All I need is f such that f(n) >= floor(log_10(2^n))+1 and !(f(n) much greater than that) < 1289333477 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1289333512 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just use (iirc) 22 which is big enough for 64 bits < 1289333512 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall using sizeof(bleh)/3 for that. It's over, but not a lot over. < 1289333520 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, sizeof in bits rather < 1289333524 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*8/3 < 1289333544 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no real logic to that though ^^ < 1289333549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: sizeof in bits, i.e. 2^sizeof(x) / 3? :P < 1289333561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("thatz xor!" shut up) < 1289333561 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no, sizeof in bits is sizeof*8 < 1289333571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1289333573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed :P < 1289333635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Now give me that for arbitrary base n! Mwahahaurk. < 1289333638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hurk. < 1289333663 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floor(log(base)/log(2)) < 1289333676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I doubt my compiler will accept that as an array size :-) < 1289333680 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...also, log(10) you mean. < 1289333688 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base is your arbitrary base 'n' < 1289333693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, < 1289333695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right :P < 1289333726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so is sizeof(n)*8 / 3 approximating the log10 or the log10+1? < 1289333732 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log10 < 1289333736 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to add 1 after that. < 1289333747 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming you want some pussy null termination :P < 1289333767 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't forget space for the sign if you're doing signed ints < 1289333783 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: +2 presumably < 1289333791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log10 = # of digits - 1 < 1289333851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that the fact that this reliably overestimates actually makes it OK? Maybe? Idonno, I think adding 1 is all you need ... Idonno, it would take me a while to actually remember the algebraic reason why this is OK :P < 1289333924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Err, for a 64-bit integer it gives back 21. Allow me to remind you that the actual value in question is 10. < 1289333938 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, the value for a 32-bit integer is 10. < 1289333946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right you are! < 1289333959 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The minimum for 64 is 20 IIRC? < 1289333964 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right :P < 1289333998 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you waste one byte, and really more due to alignment anyway, so who cares :P < 1289334013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm going to start writing to the array at the end, and then note how far we are from the start of the array, and increment it by that when printing. < 1289334018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All to avoid a reverse. < 1289334121 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the 22 I remembered must be for a signed 64-bit integer: 20, plus one for null, and another one for the sign < 1289334208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Wait, (UINT_MAX*8) = obvious error. < 1289334215 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1289334216 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIZEOF < 1289334222 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ...right, that X-D < 1289334228 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd man < 1289334235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was dropped on my head as a baby < 1289334345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA! It works! < 1289334385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: unfortunately, now i have to deal with the fact that it calls write without returning the buffer and thus on a socket... :P < 1289334408 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, are int->pointer casts guaranteed valid in C? < 1289334426 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1289334440 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, even on 64-bit systems they're wildly wrong. < 1289334441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: they're guaranteed to work! just not make sense < 1289334443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1289334444 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since int is 32-bit. < 1289334447 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wellll < 1289334448 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine < 1289334460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as sizeof(x) == sizeof(y *) < 1289334463 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They will have a definable semantics, but casting back and forth could lose data, let's go with that :P < 1289334471 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using u/intptr_t should be perfectly valid < 1289334482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X *)((intptr_t) ptr_to_X) == ptr_to_X < 1289334486 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(X *)((uintptr_t) ptr_to_X) == ptr_to_X < 1289334488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you can rely on :P < 1289334493 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Real men call it size_t/ptrdiff_t < 1289334504 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: but those aren't pointer sized < 1289334510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: size_t is not guaranteed to be pointer-sized < 1289334513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: ptrdiff_t is i think < 1289334517 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1289334530 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, no, size_t is pointer-sized, that's the whole point. < 1289334545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mother < 1289334547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s face < 1289334567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Am I a terrible person if I use a switch statement to do the equivalent of buf[i--] = "0123456789"[d]? < 1289334584 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. < 1289334593 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size_t may be smaller than the size of a pointer, but you can't allocate objects larger than size_t :) < 1289334593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Amn't it great, though? < 1289334625 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. because addresses and offsets have different sizes in your architecture, or there's some kind of segmentation going on < 1289334653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oyyyyyy vey right. < 1289334683 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect something similar applies to ptrdiff_t - not sure it's well-defined to take a difference between pointers into different objects < 1289334748 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screw it, we all know how real systems work :P < 1289334836 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. :) < 1289334922 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: d["0123456789"] :) < 1289334939 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289334957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, commutativity of indexing is the most overlooked awesomeness in C. < 1289334978 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes! < 1289334984 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on types though. < 1289335006 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it is not overlooked it is well known < 1289335020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION happies < 1289335020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: zeta c would have different ptrdiff_t to others i think < 1289335037 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (int)ptr was actually an address to a cons cell < 1289335048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (foo *)(((int)ptr)+1) definitely wouldn't work < 1289335059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hyuk < 1289335076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://lists.tunes.org/archives/lispos/1997-June/001659.html < 1289335084 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: also ints were bignums :) < 1289335090 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow < 1289335094 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's sizeof(int)? < 1289335115 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Who knows? < 1289335128 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose if your ints are bignums, maybe you can store infinity in them :P < 1289335130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (Did it even have sizeof?) < 1289335143 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: infinity isn't two's complement < 1289335145 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that mandated? < 1289335146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i forgetting < 1289335152 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By C99, not C89. < 1289335157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1289335165 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IIRC) < 1289335527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the editor who reverted my constructive Wikipedia edit as vandalism and gave me a harsh warning on my talk page, merely because I edited anonymously: "I also suggest you create an account if you feel stigmatized for not having one." < 1289335533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fuck you too! < 1289335574 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a little like, "I also suggest you change your ethnicity if you feel stigmatized for your current one." < 1289335576 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I wish to spectate. < 1289335606 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's more like "I also suggest you change your religion if you feel stigmatized for your current one." < 1289335612 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Religion, as account status, is a choice. < 1289335616 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many people make a poor choice. < 1289335618 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah, I was gonna use being gay, but I thought he'd reply "well being gay isn't a choice!", thus completely missing the point (and also marginalising any gay people who may have even decided to become gay). < 1289335627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I stigmatise religious people, so I can't use that one :) < 1289335631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That's because they're idiots though.) < 1289335638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DC#My_edit_to_Tiny_C_Compiler < 1289335675 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be less annoyed if he had used a milder warning like he's supposed to, but he went straight in for the "your edit was vandalism stop it" one. < 1289335687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still must say that I sympathise a little with the bureaucrats here. < 1289335701 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Your argument is complete bullshit in the context of getting a Wikipedia account :P < 1289335720 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Especially since having an account in no way makes you non-anonymous. < 1289335721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I just want to make him feel bad really. < 1289335728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes it does; it ties all my edits together. < 1289335736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1289335738 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1289335739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops. < 1289335742 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So does your IP, only if you're sneaking from IP to IP are they detached. < 1289335758 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ITT: Dynamic IP < 1289335778 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Besides, people find it easier to remember "quixj" than 192.168.29.42. < 1289335779 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tying your edits together is something you don't want happening? < 1289335789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also, I find it an unacceptable barrier to entry; I dislike Wikipedia enough already and if they'd prefer bureaucracy over me fixing up the crap formatting and inaccuracy I'd be happy not to edit. < 1289335807 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I *don't* accept is having all my edits marked as vandalism because I'm an IP, especially as the *good* vandals make accounts to avoid precisely that anyway. < 1289335844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I am uninterested in the culture of vane egoism and insane bureaucracy that the non-encyclopedia side of Wikipedia revels in. < 1289335866 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, then just don't engage with it. It's hardly a requirement to have an account. < 1289335905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: We can continue along me naming all the reasons I don't want an account and you dismissing them for all eternity, or you could just shut up about it. < 1289335923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they should disable anonymous editing if they really don't care about anonymous contributors at all. < 1289335926 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid you brought this up. < 1289335954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I brought this up after me and ais523 collectively whinged about the idiocy earlier. ais523 logreads. < 1289335999 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it laughable that you feel I should shut up when I was only responding to you. < 1289336016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott, I wish to spectate. < 1289336017 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I still must say that I sympathise a little with the bureaucrats here. < 1289336034 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What's your compiler, btw? < 1289336041 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : From the editor who reverted my constructive Wikipedia edit as vandalism and gave me a harsh warning on my talk page, merely because I edited anonymously: "I also suggest you create an account if you feel stigmatized for not having one." < 1289336042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : And fuck you too! < 1289336042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's a little like, "I also suggest you change your ethnicity if you feel stigmatized for your current one." Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DC#My_edit_to_Tiny_C_Compiler < 1289336042 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I would be less annoyed if he had used a milder warning like he's supposed to, but he went straight in for the "your edit was vandalism stop it" one. < 1289336048 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: C compiler? < 1289336049 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Tigress or Pumette or whatever your system is < 1289336062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I did not address it to you, I addressed it implicitly to ais523-logreading. < 1289336073 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice all the other people in the channel who said nothing. < 1289336074 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :religion is probably a slightly better analogy though < 1289336093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I responded, since, you know, that's kind of the point of IRC. < 1289336098 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm referring to Kitten of course :P ) < 1289336117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to have a one-to-one chat, do it in a PM or email. < 1289336118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not sure; pcc is the most likely candidate, as it rawks. < 1289336130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (gcc is available for all those crappy programs. I will answer more questions after brbing :P) < 1289336144 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bingrb < 1289336431 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How 'bout icc :P < 1289336431 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1289336489 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289337021 0 :Wamanuz!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1289337042 0 :Wamanuz5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1289337403 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wamanuz? < 1289337978 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about clang? < 1289337995 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How 'bout ... OpenWatcom? < 1289338141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeahno (to both) :P < 1289338158 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Big, and I'm not sure how good it is with static linking. < 1289338272 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (As always, it'll be in a package.) < 1289338358 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: At least pcc has no GNU-derived code. uClibc still disgusts me on the ground that it includes a tad bit of GNU-derived code. But then, my desires to see a no-GNU Linux (see; not use) shouldn't really influence your desire to make whatever it is you'rem aking :P < 1289338361 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you're making < 1289338385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Linux is GPL and therefore GNU! < 1289338390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-O < 1289338403 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My statement about having no [L]GPL code was a joke :P < 1289338411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: so was mine < 1289338418 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WAS YOUR MOM. < 1289338453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what my lesbian step-other-mother said < 1289338531 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I could always write MY OWN LIBC < 1289338537 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES. < 1289338538 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOIT. < 1289338540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (What about Android's bionic libc?) < 1289338545 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heynow. < 1289338545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not quite complete, but... < 1289338547 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually feasible. < 1289338553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Not quite, without modifications :P < 1289338558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The stali folk are looking into it. < 1289338562 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean feasible as a starting point. < 1289338570 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1289338632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'd have to split every function into a separate file, though :-) < 1289338650 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1289338653 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't already? < 1289338662 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, like, .a-libc-101 < 1289338691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is bionic .a? I don't know :P < 1289338708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I guess it shouldn't be X-D < 1289338714 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never mind, not sure why I thought that. < 1289338839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: CLEARLY I SHOULD USE GLIBC < 1289338850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because using dlopen() to do locales is a fan-fucking-tastic idea. < 1289338914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Ha, one of Ulrich "Asshole" Drepper's arguments against static linking: [[# < 1289338914 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no accidental violation of the (L)GPL. Should a program which is statically linked be given to a third party, it is necessary to provide the possibility to regenerate the program code.]] < 1289338915 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, locales? just use C for everything! < 1289338919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: COULD THE WATER GET ANY MURKIER < 1289338977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hyuk < 1289339092 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you use function-sections you get the size benefits of manually splitting every single function into a separate file, without having to actually do it < 1289339116 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik android links bionic dynamically, btw < 1289339117 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1289339126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm not sure yet what coreutils to use. I could port a BSD's (fun, but time consuming), use Heirloom (I don't really want to; I have no nostalgia for those tools), use Busybox (really nice, but I don't really want coreutils to be one binary, and some of the busybox utils are limited), [option I've forgotten that I'm trying to remember now], or cobble my own together from David Parson's bin repository and other crap (way too time consuming) < 1289339131 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or write my own! (no.) < 1289339146 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, if you use function-sections you get the size benefits of manually splitting every single function into a separate file, without having to actually do it < 1289339151 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i doubt non-gcc support that < 1289339161 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't bother with non-gcc? < 1289339178 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I thought busybox had an option to do multi-binary, just an unpopular one? I also thought busybox was TAINTED with GNUTUDE. < 1289339199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (1) Yes, but I have a feeling they'd end up sharing a lot of code as I bet it's not coded for, and (2) really? < 1289339212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox says nothing about GNUfart. < 1289339220 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all of it, but some utilities. < 1289339230 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Au contraire, I'm not bothering with gcc. < 1289339234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Citation needed :P < 1289339259 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, ok, then you may need to select toolchain carefully or split it up in separate .o files :/ < 1289339271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's not that hard to split up .c files... < 1289339281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uClibc does it (well, 99% certain :-)) < 1289339308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Hey, I can avoid OpenSSL! Sweet! < 1289339320 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? With? < 1289339334 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably avoiding noodles too? < 1289339337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, most things also do gnutls, and I'm not using OpenSSH. < 1289339356 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnutls == noodles == GNU :P < 1289339358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: avo...nood..wh lawl < 1289339374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Well, true, but OpenSSL is really just terrible. < 1289339378 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1289339383 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT GNU D-8 < 1289339386 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: LibTomCrypt :P < 1289339408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You're meant to say "No OpenSSH? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?". < 1289339424 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what? < 1289339433 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noodles is the perfect argument about libnoreadline. < 1289339450 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Your... mother is the perfect argument about libnoreadline. < 1289339450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only evasion when it's the GPL? What's this bullshit? < 1289339466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnutls is actually api-compatible? < 1289339467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1289339490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: We need an OpenSSL lawyer to demand GNU relicense gnutls under their license. < 1289339492 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's SLIGHTLY API-compatible. < 1289339500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GOOD ENOUGH < 1289339509 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gregor: You're meant to say "No OpenSSH? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS?". < 1289339550 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: GIVE IN TO THE BAIT < 1289339556 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER < 1289339562 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289339567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But... but :3 :'( < 1289339592 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor? WHAT IS THIS MADNESS? < 1289339600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Readline's licensing is an amazing exercise in stupid. < 1289339600 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives in < 1289339609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: The true solution is to never use the GPL ever :P < 1289339610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It's API compatible thus you must relicense as GPL". < 1289339633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or just beat the FSF with a cluebat from time to time. < 1289339638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Except they're probably right. < 1289339644 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor convinced me :P < 1289339654 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... In this case, *how*? < 1289339667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask Gregor, I would go insane explaining it. < 1289339679 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Please tell me there's logic behind it. < 1289339685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, it's copyright law. < 1289339693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No logic, but the FSF is right. < 1289339694 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, will you assist my insane tty idea? < 1289339712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Gregor ASK ME WHY I DON'T HAVE OPENSSH < 1289339721 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: NEVER. < 1289339728 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Gregor DON'T ASK ME WHY I DON'T HAVE OPENSSH < 1289339735 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ALWAYS. < 1289339748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: If you ask me why I don't have OpenSSH I won't answer; otherwise I will < 1289339760 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289339767 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: TOO BAD. < 1289339771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm going with "Something else is better". < 1289339781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I don't use OpenSSH because!!!!! (ask question to continue) < 1289339822 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, incidentally, if you don't like WP's bureaucracy, Citizendium's must be seen to be believed. < 1289339823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: could you please ask him < 1289339829 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's hurting < 1289339830 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: NEVER. < 1289339831 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have seen and believed. < 1289339839 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: my wounds are from my razor blade < 1289339842 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete insanity. < 1289339842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only Gregor would ask < 1289339848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could stop stabbing myself < 1289339850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URGHHHH < 1289339853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pooping blood now < 1289339858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't control it no no. < 1289339864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you have a razor blade for? < 1289339872 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1289339872 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a biological age of about 6. < 1289339873 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stabbing his intestines, obviously < 1289339877 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :donated blood today < 1289339880 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have some < 1289339899 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: FOR MY PAIN < 1289339963 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: ASK OR MY WOUNDS WILL TRANSMIGRATE INTO YOUR SOUL < 1289339971 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yawn* < 1289339974 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welp, by folks! < 1289339977 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bye < 1289339990 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ow, my soul! < 1289340008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: W O U N D S < 1289340011 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I forgot. < 1289340020 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have a soul, you ENGLISHMAN. < 1289340032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor don't have deal with devil. Gregor BE devil. < 1289340073 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always suspected the devil would be one of those backstabbing ENGLISHMEN. < 1289340103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I can remove your Jewry if you ask the question. < 1289340118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steals Gregor's jewellery < 1289340355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: make him ask < 1289340495 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"transmigrate"? if trans means something about moving, isn't that already implied by migration? < 1289340539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reincarnation < 1289340548 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trans·mi·grate/transˈmīgrāt/Verb < 1289340549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. (of the soul) Pass into a different body after death. < 1289340549 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Migrate. < 1289340550 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your wounds will reincarnate? < 1289340557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: see (1) there < 1289340575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: additional meaning: 3. (of Prime Intellect) Take longer to be written than Duke Nukem forever. < 1289340580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Forever. < 1289340630 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 'trans' seems to have an ever so slightly more specific meaning than just motion < 1289340666 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG ITS BOILING < 1289340680 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nm, it was supposed to do that < 1289340790 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1289340869 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote OMG ITS BOILING oh, nm, it was supposed to do that < 1289341058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey Gregor < 1289341060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has my system NOT got < 1289341363 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, a soul. < 1289341478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: How about I just tell you instead :P < 1289341492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure. < 1289341505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dropbear roolz OpenSSH droolz < 1289341562 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there's a program so simple that noöne can argue over which version is best. < 1289341591 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *cat*, so I have no idea what it could be. < 1289341593 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289341660 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: mu; gnu can make the simplest program huge < 1289341665 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see e.g. gnu true < 1289341681 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tr... wha... how... < 1289341709 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1289341729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: it responds to --help and --version. it is some 50 lines long < 1289341734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: gnu false is a define and then -- i shit you not < 1289341736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include "true.c" < 1289341738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dropbear is pretty awesome. < 1289341745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Indeed! < 1289341773 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that makes the rhetoric in the GNU design advice about not following standards belligerently hilarious. < 1289341802 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls -lh $(which true) $(which false) < 1289341803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 21K Apr 28 2010 /bin/false < 1289341803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 21K Apr 28 2010 /bin/true < 1289341809 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 fuckin' ks < 1289341842 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridunculous < 1289341849 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION aneurysms. < 1289341861 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION objdumps < 1289341888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/true.c < 1289341890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: BEHOLD GNU TRUE < 1289341892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you too. behold it < 1289341903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/coreutils.git/tree/src/false.c < 1289341911 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost afraid to watch < 1289341918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: CLICK MWAHAHAHA < 1289341922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it has LOCALISED STRINGS < 1289341924 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's important to get translations and --help --version working properly there. < 1289341925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the help message < 1289341928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i know :D < 1289341933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : emit_ancillary_info (); < 1289341935 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT ANCILLARY INFO < 1289341937 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, my true doesn't do that. < 1289341941 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: It does. < 1289341943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: $(which true) --help < 1289341947 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: true is also a shell built-in. < 1289341955 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289341968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, read http://qntm.org/artwar . Imagine me in that situation. < 1289341998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strings /bin/true says the binary ends up having strings like "A NULL argv[0] was passed through an exec system call." and "memory exhausted". < 1289342009 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Quit < 1289342068 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes with all of "Written by %s.", "Written by %s and %s." and "Written by %s, %s, and %s." :) < 1289342105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, my god < 1289342108 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently it can dynamically change its number of authors, useful extra feature for a utility that should just exit with no error < 1289342116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All the way up to: "Written by %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, %s, and others." < 1289342150 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1289342173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : evidently it can dynamically change its number of authors, useful extra feature for a utility that should just exit with no error < 1289342176 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO IT CAN ALSO EXIT WITH FAILURE < 1289342179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF COMPILED TO DO THAT < 1289342191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my implementation < 1289342192 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what is that stupidity. < 1289342195 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { return 0; } < 1289342195 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different utility, I'm looking through 'true' here < 1289342197 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of false: < 1289342199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { return 1; } < 1289342200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: look at the header < 1289342203 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, psssh. < 1289342205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: true.c implements false < 1289342214 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: false.c just defines EXIT_STATUS to be EXIT_FAILURE, and then does #include "true.c" < 1289342218 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone want to tell elliott that he's missing out on imagining me in pain? < 1289342219 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been golfed to a crazily tiny number of bites. < 1289342220 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: true, the binary damnit < 1289342225 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: :P < 1289342229 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, we did that a while ago. < 1289342232 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ...bites? < 1289342238 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int main() { return 1; } < 1289342240 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH < 1289342241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: this doesn't work on VMS :-) < 1289342244 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION seppukus. < 1289342247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: COBOLUTILS? < 1289342254 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAa < 1289342271 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: returning one from main usually means something like returning to the CRT bootstrap code that calls exit() with the return value of main < 1289342277 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, my guts are on the floor. COBOL is the least of my problems. < 1289342287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: on VMS, 1 is not exit failure < 1289342292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be {return EXIT_FAILURE;} < 1289342292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1289342298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(EXIT_SUCCESS is defined to be 0 on all platforms) < 1289342305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are all officially more COBOL-obsessed than I am < 1289342307 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and "one" is actually a placefolder for "a value" there < 1289342310 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't particularly hard < 1289342329 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, actually, the image of you seeing AW burn amuses me terribly. < 1289342333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good job. < 1289342352 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I can't understand you :P < 1289342378 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my point is that even a main that simply returns will result in a HUGE binary < 1289342400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html :P < 1289342419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: (doesn't work with newer linux kernels) < 1289342460 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he did false and true in that. < 1289342463 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both at once. < 1289342482 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No, he did 42. < 1289342483 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1289342501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mov bl, 42/xor bl, bl/ for true and and s/42/1/ for false. < 1289342519 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/true.asm.txt < 1289342540 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual code is 22 lines. < 1289342547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is elliott somehow ignoring all lines that contain Sgeo now? < 1289342576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289342580 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, can you see this line Sgeo Sgeo Sgeo? < 1289342583 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1289342586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./test2; echo $?; stat test2 < 1289342586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1289342586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File: `test2' < 1289342586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Size: 0 < 1289342598 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hah. < 1289342603 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, what? < 1289342607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Wait, where did you find the link to true.asm.txt? < 1289342613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: file without shebang = interpreted by shell < 1289342619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shell executes all 0 commands, exits successfully. < 1289342627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo 'exit 1' >false; chmod +x false < 1289342627 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also works < 1289342641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: stat, not wc -c? :p < 1289342668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I got the link from http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/ < 1289342676 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for some reason, yes < 1289342678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1289342731 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/hello.asm.txt < 1289342732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorgeous < 1289342741 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now make some of the code have the hello world chars in < 1289342745 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can reuse it! < 1289342757 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he golfed that too, obviously. < 1289342764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kikx/20061111 < 1289342765 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even smaller < 1289342776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be 57 bytes if you drop the !, as hello.asm.txt does < 1289342797 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, he did ls. < 1289342828 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :145 lines. < 1289342870 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supports -C1lFisdaBNbR < 1289342892 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, incidentally test2 was a quine, didn't even notice < 1289342901 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In under 3 times the line count that the GNU idiots took for _true_. < 1289342903 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly quine but whatever, my first quine < 1289342929 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When compiled, it is actually under 1K long. < 1289342963 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than 100th of GNU's compiled binary. < 1289343038 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it's a cheat quine < 1289343054 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep < 1289343056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: i like how even you hate gnu now < 1289343105 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well, I've always disliked their arrogance. < 1289343107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: write an real-mode asm quine! < 1289343231 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Here's a program that I actually use. It simply runs forever, printing a bell character every four minutes or so. I keep it in the background after logging into a remote machine that times out connections when they're idle. At 56 bytes, it's a bit longer than the one-line shell script I originally used, but on the plus side it doesn't take up an extra process in order to sleep.]] < 1289343256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt < 1289343257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt < 1289343257 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/bf.asm.txt < 1289343259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :166 byte bf < 1289343262 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler < 1289343273 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't quite work IIRC... < 1289343280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not on modern linux, sure < 1289343281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1289343325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw http://asm.sourceforge.net/asmutils.html is more of this good stuff < 1289343325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coreutils < 1289343327 0 :cheater99!~cheater@g229031196.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1289343407 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably 5 orders of magnitude smaller than GNU's. < 1289343411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: btw, there's a nice ls + more at https://github.com/Orc/bin < 1289343424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat, date, df, id, ls, uname, who < 1289343448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "This is a simple base64 decoder utility. Like hexdump, it can either accept a filename on the command line, or work on standard input. Since sometimes very large files need to be encoded in base64, I violated my prime directive a little bit and let the program grow a bit more than strictly necessary, in order to optimize for speed. This version is there significantly faster than the ut < 1289343448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ility included in GNU coreutils. Its size is exactly 256 bytes." < 1289343485 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any bets on how badly GNU screwed up base64? < 1289343490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly < 1289343519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another unique feature of factor is that it has online help, version information, and error messages. It therefore arguably stands as a completely functional replacement for the version in GNU coreutils. Its size is 1020 bytes." < 1289343528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ wc -c $(which factor) < 1289343528 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31584 /usr/bin/factor < 1289343552 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU factor: 31 times as big as the other one, and rubbish! < 1289343561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: oh, and that factor links to libc too < 1289343565 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obeys all standards < 1289343568 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O.o < 1289343569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's faster than gnu factor < 1289343574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/factor.asm.txt < 1289343577 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else does the GNU version do? < 1289343581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "online help" is arcanejargon for "--help", btw. < 1289343581 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaussian primes? < 1289343584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: uhh... nothing < 1289343590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in C :-P < 1289343597 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloated bloated c < 1289343612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu factor doesn't even have any flags other than --help and --version < 1289343660 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The full documentation for factor is maintained as a Texinfo manual. < 1289343661 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : — man factor < 1289343855 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → sleep < 1289343864 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289344767 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Bionic needs a bit of fixing up :) "# Android implements its own account management, and does not use /etc/passwd. There is no getpwent(), and getpwnam()/getpwuid() are implemented as wrappers around an Android ID service. At present, the Android ID service consists of 25 hard-coded accounts in " < 1289344812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bionic expects some information to be stored at a magic address high < 1289344812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the process address space. Right now that information is populated < 1289344812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the dynamic linker. If the process is linked statically and the < 1289344812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linker doesn't run that would be a problem, but probably a solvable < 1289344812 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one as the support could be added to crt.o instead." < 1289344823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.metasploit.com/redmine/issues/2418 < 1289344835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bionic patches and stuff < 1289345052 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :laaaaaaaaaaawl < 1289345121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "My friend did some experiments and verified that vim's execution time grows as a square of the number of times the command is repeated." < 1289345128 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: HA HA VIM USER < 1289345130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You use vim right?) < 1289345151 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm betting those experiments were fucked up :P < 1289345162 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Actually, no: 1000000aaoeu^[ < 1289345168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Four megs of aaoeu. < 1289345182 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHOHOH < 1289345187 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That repetition :P < 1289345193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but that's BS anyway :P < 1289345193 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nvi did it in a second. He gave up on vim after 74 minutes, and then his friend worked it out and it TURNS OUT it would have taken 14.3 hours. < 1289345204 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but... how do you fuck up your architecture that badly? < 1289345207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repetition is a fucking for loop! < 1289345221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows :P < 1289345463 0 :Mathnerd314!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1289345714 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"secondly, take an OS design class. the main reason to use modular device drivers is to keep the system up and running in the event that a driver should fail (or just to be nice to programmers)." < 1289345720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understanding of what linux kernel modules are fail < 1289345756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blog comments are so useless, even by the author :P < 1289345819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Hmm < 1289345819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A ... geeky person I know seems to have found an issue with common definitions of turing-complete < 1289345819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge/index.php < 1289345819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Befunge-93 is a non-TC language that has a finite amount of space for the program itself < 1289345819 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Brainfuck is a language that is turing-complete. < 1289345827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Now, is Befinge/index.php turing-complete? On the one hand, it can interpret BF programs, so yes. On the other hand, there is only finite space for code, so no < 1289345833 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I explan that properly? < 1289345840 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1289345906 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just points them to the talk page < 1289346008 0 :Mathnerd314!~mathnerd3@128.198.97.136 JOIN :#esoteric < 1289346009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Have you ever used buildroot? http://buildroot.uclibc.org/ < 1289346016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall you ... mentioning BusyBox ... once ... < 1289346030 0 :calamari!~calamari@ip70-162-184-205.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1289346162 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1289346298 0 :sftp!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1289346833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you want me to support x86_64, now is the time to bother me incessantly. < 1289346891 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He'll be happy so long as your docs all have the right doctype declaration and MIME type. < 1289346905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl < 1289346913 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: The correct roff doctype < 1289346942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That being said, not supporting x86_64 is pretty stupid. < 1289346945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with this being THE FUTURE. < 1289346982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yeah, but x86_64 also bloats everything on the system and I'm lazy. On the other hand, as someone who has programmed a boot sector, eight fucking registers thank fucking god. < 1289346989 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is just glad humanity hasn't been sterilized < 1289347000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: On the other other hand, what's the point of a nice teensy-tiny distribution that doesn't run on anything before 2004? < 1289347011 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't say x86_64 ONLY. < 1289347023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Note: I will be the only maintainer. Note: I have to build every damn package all the time. < 1289347028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note: EFF YOU < 1289347139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Unless, of course, you would like to maintain one of the ports. < 1289347153 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: (And provide the extra disk space to store packages if required.) < 1289347166 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how shitty the distro is :) < 1289347180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: For the GNUfan that you are: Incredibly :P