←2010-11-18 2010-11-19 2010-11-20→ ↑2010 ↑all
00:01:18 <elliott> Hey ineiros, can I get a teleport to V*rpal? :P
00:01:44 <Vorpal> ineiros, please don't do that
00:01:51 <Vorpal> ineiros, let him find me
00:01:57 <Vorpal> I told him where I was before so :P
00:02:01 <Vorpal> (roughly)
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00:22:37 <Sgeo> Why did elliott * out Vorpal?
00:22:44 <Sgeo> Scared of summoning him?
00:23:00 <Sgeo> Actually, that might make sense given context
00:23:01 <Sgeo> Meh
00:23:14 <Vorpal> elliott, why quit?
00:26:55 <Sgeo> It occurs to me that unsafeInterleaveIO might be incredibly useful in getting people to really understand laziness
00:28:26 <elliott> Sgeo: It's also generally a bad idea.
00:28:29 <elliott> As in almost always.
00:28:30 <elliott> So no.
00:28:43 <elliott> G'night.
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00:29:34 <Vorpal> ineiros, there?
00:29:39 <ineiros> Yes.
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00:32:18 <elliott> "Sweden has issued an international arrest warrant for Wikileaks founder Julian Assange."
00:32:21 <elliott> What a shitty end to the night.
00:35:29 <elliott> Vorpal: You owe me a diamond pickaxe or something :P
00:36:06 <elliott> note to self: server URI is in logs of /msg to self
00:36:07 <elliott> bye
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03:54:33 * Sgeo relearns about Parrot
03:54:52 <Sgeo> I _think_ I might be willing to learn the Scheme that's on Parrot
03:55:36 <Sgeo> Or... it's not doing so well meh
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06:09:48 <Sgeo> I just remembered one of my pseudomathematical musings from when I was a kid
06:10:13 <Sgeo> The idea of a/b universes: The universe where any number * b = a
06:10:29 <Sgeo> a/a universes were in some sense parallel to ours
06:10:57 <Sgeo> (I might have a and b backwards)
06:12:25 <Sgeo> No, I don't, because a/b then becomes "all numbers"
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06:15:45 <Sgeo> Some just-now continuations of thoughts on the subject (I don't remember much more of related musings back then)
06:15:58 <Sgeo> a!=b destroys multiplicative identity
06:17:45 <Sgeo> What I'd love to see is a way, given a/b where a!=b, determine stuff about c/d
06:17:47 <Sgeo> erm
06:17:48 <Sgeo> c*d
06:21:43 <Sgeo> Night all
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07:50:52 <Vorpal> <elliott> Vorpal: You owe me a diamond pickaxe or something :P <-- I didn't fetch your. I had no clue where it was. And you have to clean up your own mess
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08:00:54 <fizzie> Oh, you've made a mess?-)
08:32:27 <Vorpal> fizzie, the mess was him losing his pickaxe :P
08:32:44 <Vorpal> as far as I know he didn't cause any other mess
08:32:56 <Vorpal> I certainly hope he didn't
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08:41:57 <Vorpal> ineiros, did something break? I logged out for a bit and now when I try to reconnect it stalls at "Logging in..."
08:42:21 <Vorpal> Connection lost: Tome out
08:42:23 <Vorpal> Time*
08:42:43 <Vorpal> ah now it works
08:43:15 <ineiros> Vorpal: It threw a couple of exceptions when you logged out.
08:43:42 <ineiros> Vorpal: Haven't seen it complain that much, though.
08:43:54 <Vorpal> ineiros, how weird.
08:44:00 <Vorpal> ineiros, had to try 3 times to manage to log in
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09:20:56 <Vorpal> ineiros, I hope it didn't throw any exceptions this time
09:21:45 <Vorpal> bbl
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12:53:56 <Phantom_Hoover> oklopol, you there?
12:54:43 <oklopol> yes
12:54:44 <oklopol> just came
12:55:28 <Phantom_Hoover> Are you still interested in that gravity thing?
12:55:54 <Phantom_Hoover> Because I just came up with an awesome reactionless drive idea for a Newtonian system with negative masses allowed.
12:58:56 <Phantom_Hoover> Basically, you have a negative mass and a positive one with the same absolute mass at some distance from each other, then cause a self-cancelling force between the,
12:58:59 <Phantom_Hoover> *them.
12:59:22 <Phantom_Hoover> i.e. gravitational attraction or charge or just pulling on a piece of string.
13:00:11 <Phantom_Hoover> So we have a force of F on the positive mass and a force of -F on the negative mass.
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13:01:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Let m be the positive mass and -m be the negative one, the acceleration on the positive one is F/m, and the acceleration on the negative one is -F/-m = F/m.
13:01:30 <Phantom_Hoover> So they both keep on accelerating in the same direction with the same distance between them.
13:02:10 <Phantom_Hoover> I have a control system sketched out in my mind, but I need to eat now.
13:23:24 <ais523\unfoog> <Google, quoting a spam message sent to them> "Dear google.com, I visited your website and noticed that you are not listed in most of the major search engines and directories..."
13:26:30 <cheater99> ais523\unfoog: haha
13:26:35 <cheater99> ais523\unfoog: what's unfoog?
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13:47:01 <fizzie> cheater99: Since he doesn't seem to be answering: [of the unfoog] <ais523> elliott: /dev/null NetHack tournament <ais523> we take clan membership very seriously
13:47:34 <cheater99> o
13:47:35 <cheater99> thanks fizzie
13:47:39 <cheater99> he's probably busy playing
13:56:40 <oklopol> or busy ignoring you
13:57:22 <oklopol> Phantom_Hoover: sure, also forgot to mention i'm busy although here
13:57:32 <Phantom_Hoover> Ah.
13:58:20 <Phantom_Hoover> Negative mass also has the quality of being an extremely effective weapon, since its normal reaction to surfaces is reduced.
13:58:50 <Phantom_Hoover> So if you fire a negative bullet at something it will accelerate towards it as soon as it comes into contact.
13:59:27 <oklopol> i like it
14:00:03 <oklopol> it's slightly insane though, maybe there could be some sort of antimateria effect so they won't just accelerate forever (and explode instead)
14:04:45 <Phantom_Hoover> Well, the infinite acceleration obeys both conservation of energy and conservation of momentum.
14:05:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Negative mass has negative kinetic energy and negative momentum.
14:05:39 <Phantom_Hoover> Steering would be hard, though.
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14:15:22 <Phantom_Hoover> Wait, perhaps not.
14:20:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, there?
14:20:12 <Vorpal> fizzie, what is with that temporary hut of yours?
14:20:21 <Vorpal> I just happened to pass it
14:20:30 <fizzie> What is with it?
14:22:01 <fizzie> If you mean why there's two blocks of dirt in the place where a door would normally go, that's because doors used to be badly broken in multiplayer -- they seem to work a lot better nowadays -- so I used dirt as a door to keep the chickens out.
14:22:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Crap, I died.
14:22:18 <Phantom_Hoover> (In Minecraft)
14:22:37 <Phantom_Hoover> And then a creeper followed me from the spawn point.
14:22:50 <Phantom_Hoover> And now it won't go away from the door.
14:23:05 <Phantom_Hoover> Fortunately, I had offloaded most of my resources.
14:27:43 <Phantom_Hoover> I fell in lava, too, so what I had is now gone.
14:28:20 <Phantom_Hoover> 8 coal, a half-worn iron pick, a stone pick, a stone sword, some torches, some wood.
14:28:35 <Phantom_Hoover> And a _lot_ of cobblestone and stairs
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14:40:47 <Phantom_Hoover> ineiros, may I be inducted into your Esoteric Order of Minecraft?
14:41:27 <elliott> It's like a gigantic party! Of... losing diamond pickaxes.
15:02:35 <augur> heydo
15:02:43 <augur> chris barker is here! :D
15:05:35 <elliott> k
15:05:47 <augur> chris barker invented Iota and Jot :|
15:05:59 <elliott> here as in right there
15:06:22 <augur> well, currently he's in another room talking with a fellow student
15:06:26 <augur> but here as in at the department
15:06:28 <augur> giving a talk
15:06:53 <elliott> augur: tell him that from the entire esolang community, we hate him for inventing Iota, not because it's bad or anything, but because of people who think that just because it only has two symbols means it has the simplest semantics :P
15:07:03 <augur> lol
15:11:41 <augur> yeah so hes talking about linear logic and the semantics of permission
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17:14:35 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: you know you were complaining about Wikipedia deletionists a while back?
17:14:48 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: yes (although i also hate rabid inclusionists!)
17:14:57 <ais523\unfoog> you might find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Delete_the_junk amusing, basically someone wrote an article in support of deletionism and a bunch of inclusionists are trying to get it deleted
17:15:18 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: Amusing, or depressing?
17:15:33 <ais523\unfoog> it would be depressing if it were the other way round
17:15:35 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: "This page in a nutshell: Wikipedia lacks articles on a lot of notable subjects. We don't need to keep an article with no merit in itself just because it might, theoretically, be possible to make a good article on the subject."
17:15:39 <ais523\unfoog> this way round, it's hilarious
17:15:41 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: To me, that is not deletionism.
17:15:52 <ais523\unfoog> hmm, perhaps
17:15:54 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: That is "delete until you can write a good article on it -ism", which seems perfectly reasonable to me.
17:16:01 <ais523\unfoog> a cabal of inclusionists trying to delete something is still hilarious, though
17:16:18 <elliott> Even someone who wanted an article on every single person's nose might agree that a *bad* article on a nose should be deleted.
17:16:28 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: Yes, but still - depressing. What has Wikipedia become...
17:16:32 <ais523\unfoog> indeed
17:16:58 <ais523\unfoog> I found a page a while back that was impossible to revert vandalism on, because everything being vandalised was also vandalism
17:17:07 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: holy fucking shit at @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dream_Focus
17:17:09 <ais523\unfoog> (although eventually managed to figure out who to report it to, and they fixed it)
17:17:15 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: from the initiator of the, cough, "discussion"
17:17:40 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: when your user page has 110 sections, they're all dedicated to your ranty, rabid inclusionist principles, and it's been nominated for deletion twice... well...
17:17:56 <elliott> [[The American spelling of something is always the best
17:17:56 <elliott> If you go to licorice you will find it forward it to the liquorice, which Webster dictionary defines as a "chiefly British variant of licorice". Since there are more English speaking Americans than the total population of all other English speaking countries combined, then why not use the proper American spelling? Dream Focus (talk) 08:24, 3 December 2008 (UTC)]]
17:18:14 <elliott> this guy *really* hates the deletionists
17:18:27 <elliott> [[ Unreasonable Deletionist: "This species isn't notable. No coverage in any media."
17:18:27 <elliott> Reasonable Inclusionist: "Its listed in books about that type of organism."
17:18:27 <elliott> Unreasonable Deletionist: "That isn't significant coverage. Its just briefly mentioned, there not much about it at all, so that doesn't count. Also, a lot of things written about the species are from the people who studied it, so that is just self published works of their own original research."
17:18:27 <elliott> Reasonable Inclusionist: "All species are notable and deserve coverage. This is an encyclopedia."
17:18:27 <elliott> Unreasonable Deletionist:"Notability is not inherited. You have to prove you are notable by getting mentioned on the news at least twice or being interesting and unique enough to get ample coverage in books not published by the researchers themselves or other people involved."
17:18:31 <elliott> Reasonable Inclusionist: Sigh. "Rescue Squadron away! Please help me reason with this person."]]
17:18:33 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: his talk page has about as many sections, plus archives
17:18:34 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: ok, i have to step away from this now, because my urge to punch is risign
17:18:36 <elliott> *rising
17:18:41 <ais523\unfoog> which implies to me that he just isn't archiving properly
17:19:24 <elliott> i do not like this Dream Focus person
17:19:44 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: [[#
17:19:44 <elliott> The mailing list will remain open, well-advertised, and will be regarded as the place for meta-discussions about the nature of Wikipedia. Very limited meta-discussion of the nature of Wikipedia should be placed on the site itself. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. The topic of Wikipedia articles should always look outward, not inward at the Wikipedia itself.]] --[[User: Jimbo Wales]]
17:19:53 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: I would love to measure the activity on Wikipedia:foo vs. the mailing list.
17:20:07 <elliott> also, survey Wikipedia editors to find out how many even know what a mailing list is, or that that one exists
17:20:07 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: when he made that comment, the Wikipedia: namespace didn't exist
17:20:28 <ais523\unfoog> I think the namespace was mostly made to replace the mailing list, as a wiki is better for discussions than email or a forum IMO
17:20:35 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: come to think of it, Wikipedia would be a *lot* better if Wikipedia: only existed for, say, the essays, and all discussion was on the mailing list
17:20:51 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: 1. The *huge* idiots don't know how to subscribe to a mailing list, or won't bother.
17:20:58 <elliott> 2. That's about it.
17:21:09 <elliott> (3. If you whine excessively, people tell you to stop clogging their email boxes.)
17:22:38 <elliott> [[#
17:22:38 <elliott> "You can edit this page right now" is a core guiding check on everything that we do. We must respect this principle as sacred.]]
17:22:41 <elliott> [[#
17:22:41 <elliott> Any changes to the software must be gradual and reversible. We need to make sure that any changes contribute positively to the community, as ultimately determined by everybody in Wikipedia, in full consultation with the community consensus.]]
17:22:54 <elliott> (1) and yet disabling anonymous editing gets wide support
17:22:56 <ais523\unfoog> I think a mailing list would move too quickly to be tenable
17:23:01 <ais523\unfoog> elliott: not from me it doesn't
17:23:03 <elliott> (2) heheheheheheheheheheehehehehe approved revisions
17:23:07 <elliott> ais523\unfoog: no, but from the idiots.
17:23:48 <ais523\unfoog> approved revisions is less of an awful idea, as an alternative to protection (which is how it was used in the tests)
17:24:02 <ais523\unfoog> in fact, the vast majority of PC-protected articles allow any autoconfirmed user to approve a revision
17:24:26 <ais523\unfoog> that seems like a better version of semiprotection to me, although I bet it'll be misapplied if consensus is to turn it on
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18:01:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, ineiros: I think one of you ought to see what they are up to. I could hide it with trees. Your might be less lucky
18:02:17 <Sgeo> "they"?
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18:38:47 <elliott> Sgeo: This:
18:38:54 <elliott> Sgeo: http://imgur.com/AFlVw.png.
18:38:56 <elliott> erm
18:38:57 <elliott> Sgeo: http://imgur.com/AFlVw.png
18:39:00 <elliott> Sgeo: http://imgur.com/PdqXT.png
18:40:24 <Sgeo> They is a structure?
18:40:39 <Sgeo> Someone else on the server?
18:41:07 <elliott> Sgeo: They is Phantom_Hoover and I, although fizzie has now joined in.
18:41:13 <elliott> Sgeo: We were "up to" building that gigantic thing.
18:41:47 <Sgeo> I take it that Vorpal thinks it's an eyesore
18:43:11 <elliott> Sgeo: He seems to have grown to accept it.
18:46:10 * Sgeo is now playing with a disembodied head
18:47:08 <fizzie> Vorpal: It is certainly a bit... extravagant.
18:47:56 <fizzie> I wouldn't build something like that at home, but... well, whatever floats their boats, I guess.
18:51:14 <elliott> Prettiness: http://imgur.com/tfIBG.png
18:51:16 <elliott> (Sgeo Vorpal fizzie)
18:51:24 <elliott> (Phantom_Hoover)
18:51:28 * Sgeo is not a function
18:52:08 <elliott> Shut up and admire. :P
18:52:35 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, http://ompldr.org/vNjhkag
18:52:48 <Sgeo> I had to tilt my monitor to see the colored lights
18:52:50 <Phantom_Hoover> The circled mountain is Mount Hoover.
18:52:56 <Sgeo> Unless that's a monitor hallucination
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18:54:42 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: So, pretty much directly south from the skyway L.
18:55:12 <Phantom_Hoover> Yep.
18:55:27 <Phantom_Hoover> You can tell it by the fact that it has an enormous overhang.
18:58:09 <elliott> Sgeo: There are lights, but they are not coloured.
18:58:15 <elliott> There are different colours there beacuse of the rendering engine.
18:58:16 <elliott> *because
18:58:25 <Sgeo> Ah
18:58:34 * Sgeo wants to play with Uru Live's firemarbles
18:58:51 <Sgeo> So pretty
18:59:49 <Sgeo> http://www.gunda.hu/uru/marbles.jpg
19:03:02 <elliott> <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: So, pretty much directly south from the skyway L.
19:03:03 <elliott> Okay.
19:03:04 <elliott> I will do that.
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19:59:01 <Sgeo> Fark is down
19:59:05 * Sgeo screams in agony
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20:16:59 <elliott> hi oklopol
20:17:01 <elliott> we're playing MINECRAFT
20:18:08 <nooga> nooo
20:18:39 <Gregor> Hi nooga
20:18:42 <Gregor> We're playing SEXCRAFT
20:18:47 <Gregor> ... with TENTACLE MONSTERS.
20:23:27 <oklopol> elliott: i know you are but what am i
20:24:00 <Sgeo> Homo sapiens, Ihope
20:24:13 <Sgeo> Scary that you wouldn't know that
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20:27:52 <oklopol> i can't know everything
20:53:21 <Sgeo> WHY is there a computer game of Diplomacy that has a single-player mode?
20:55:45 <Sgeo> Although watching a Let's Play can give a good sense of the physical play
21:05:07 <augur> monads!
21:07:05 * Sgeo traps augur in a radioactive box inside a burrito
21:09:54 <augur> wot
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22:12:49 <Sgeo> Would building a BF(like) interpreter be easy?
22:14:53 <fizzie> In what?
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22:15:56 <Sgeo> Minecraft
22:18:16 <elliott> http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree15.png
22:18:18 <elliott> Pretty.
22:18:39 <elliott> http://zem.fi/~fis/subtree12.png -- THE FLATWAY
22:18:42 <elliott> in response to fizzie
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22:22:53 <olsner> Sgeo: considering there's already an 8-bit cpu, why should it be hard? :)
22:23:47 <olsner> also, turns out you can watch the LHC live
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22:24:37 <elliott> olsner: indeed: http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
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22:34:39 * Sgeo wants a more realistic rendition of what would happen
22:34:57 <Sgeo> (Yes, I know that nothing's going to happen, but if it did, what would it look like?)
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23:04:04 <elliott> ***NOTE TO SELF: COBBLES ARE IN FIZZIE'S CHEST***
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23:39:18 <Gregor> <pikhq> For the information of #esoteric: I've not disappeared, I just have an Internet outage.
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23:42:27 <zzo38> In the book "Godel, Escher, Bach", the author describes a programming language BlooP, and FlooP. The primitive operations are adding, multiplying, testing if numbers equal, and testing if one number is greater than another. Actually, none of these primitive operations are needed, nor are conditionals needed. The only primitive operation needed is successor operation.
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23:45:19 <zzo38> If you want, try making the BlooP operations using only successor as a primitive operation and using no conditionals (IF command), but otherwise using the same codes as BlooP (or FlooP).
23:46:34 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, Vorpal, elliott, ineiros, http://ompldr.org/upload
23:46:41 <Phantom_Hoover> Argh
23:46:45 <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, Vorpal, elliott, ineiros, http://ompldr.org/vNjhpeg
23:47:31 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: awesome
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23:49:46 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, same map as before?
23:50:06 <Phantom_Hoover> Vorpal, it's Mt. Hoover from the north.
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23:50:43 <Vorpal> Phantom_Hoover, no, it is the map?
23:50:46 <Vorpal> <Phantom_Hoover> fizzie, Vorpal, elliott, ineiros, http://ompldr.org/vNjhpeg
23:50:49 <Vorpal> the map
23:50:53 <Phantom_Hoover> ...Map?
23:50:54 <elliott> ...
23:50:55 <elliott> no
23:50:57 <elliott> it is mt hoover
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23:51:05 <Vorpal> wtf
23:51:12 <Vorpal> clearing browser cache fixed
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