< 1290902436 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290902460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey is a Fooneticer < 1290902493 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290902496 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, that cavern connects to most of the caves in that area. < 1290902507 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: It does? Ha. < 1290902515 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: There are two massive caverns, I think. < 1290902518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found two while mining. < 1290902538 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: protip: using bios = shorter code :P < 1290902545 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extremely large; I started exploring it a short distance from the end of the tunnel. < 1290902564 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: I end up getting stuck in circles before I get to too many places. < 1290902569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It is big even then, though.) < 1290902581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__: Also, which tunnel? < 1290902586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Tunnel to Hoover? < 1290902589 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1290902720 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1290902743 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd want to place a few torches outside to melt the snow :P < 1290902903 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Phantom_Hoover__: hah IF you know what to look for you can find part of my easter egg on the topo map < 1290902916 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you didn't know where to look and what to look for: not a chance < 1290902972 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OK. I can't be bothered playing your little guessing game. I don't really care about pandering to your ego for your little terraforming project. < 1290903009 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, you completely misinterpret it < 1290903027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i concur with ph < 1290903032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cut it out < 1290903063 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you would concur with him. It is only to be expected. < 1290903087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bawwwwwwwwwwww ;_; < 1290903107 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, oh. It's a sheep right? < 1290903157 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, if you've put work into something, show it to us, rather than annoying us. < 1290903176 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, I am however sure that ehird would hate it < 1290903191 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, OK, /msg it to me. < 1290903196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then stop nickpinging me < 1290903203 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, besides it isn't done. :/ < 1290903209 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, the completion time is erratic < 1290903215 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, since trees are involved < 1290903238 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, who mounted the expedition to the east? < 1290903243 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And west? < 1290903252 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal. < 1290903256 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, look on topo map :P < 1290903264 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, nice marker to west < 1290903289 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, since you called your direction "frigid north" I go for "wild west" and "exotic east" < 1290903324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w=w, e=e. why? because f=n < 1290903368 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well no. Wild west because well you know < 1290903379 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming that you made a tower in the west. < 1290903381 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then what was the classical connotation of the east < 1290903383 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, so I did < 1290903390 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, it is 1x1 with a platform < 1290903397 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, I made no torch trail there < 1290903403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, that is why I marked it with a tower < 1290903413 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And your Soopir Sekrit Project? < 1290903424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, what? < 1290903432 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is it? < 1290903459 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll tell when it is complete < 1290903476 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu about it until then, then < 1290903478 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming north or northwest, since you've mentioned snow and there's obviously been exploration that way. < 1290903541 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bah, part of it is performance art. That part is code named iHype < 1290903561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should release some leaks soon ;P < 1290903727 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, this is seriously stupid. We don't really care what you're doing, since we have no idea what it is. < 1290903764 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover__, I'll let you in on it then. You might be able to help too < 1290903764 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being annoying about it; finish it in silence, then reveal it, or let us openly follow its development. < 1290903941 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290904568 0 :oerjan!oerjan@tyrell.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1290904657 0 :TLUL!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1290904751 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION → sleep
< 1290904768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO SLEEP FOR YOU < 1290904768 0 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@24.191.97.138 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290904847 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1290904858 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, duh that is a type signature < 1290904988 0 :Goose!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290905009 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ಠ_ಠ < 1290905021 0 :Goose!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest43641 < 1290905046 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what: " [0CA0]_[0CA0]" < 1290905055 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that was no utf-8 < 1290905062 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently not even my own terminal shows that correctly (but it's fine in the logs) < 1290905073 0 :Quadlex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1290905074 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Write error: Broken pipe < 1290905074 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1290905075 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290905082 0 :jix!~jix@188.40.47.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290905083 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can't load them atm < 1290905092 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1290905094 0 :Phantom_Hoover__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290905096 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1290905109 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290905151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it's supposed to be utf-8. look of disapproval from reddit (technically some indian characters i think) < 1290905174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My terminal shows it as an unknown unicode character. < 1290905198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's common not to have it in your fonts, afaiu < 1290905275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(PuTTY (the terminal I use for IRC) displays invalid UTF-8 codes differently than unicode characters that are not available in the font.) < 1290905288 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290905293 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Laptop: Fuck you < 1290905299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also use putty, it just showed a blank space. font is courier new. < 1290905357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it is set to do that recoding/translation stuff, so maybe it is trying to correct somehow. < 1290905382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, IE shows it correctly in the logs, and claims the page is utf-8 < 1290905417 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : um it's supposed to be utf-8. look of disapproval from reddit (technically some indian characters i think) < 1290905419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, kannada < 1290905422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that recoding means i still see things nicely when people are actually using iso-8859-1, i think < 1290905427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1290905442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the irc client converts to utf-8 not the termainl < 1290905443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*terminal < 1290905452 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if oerjan has somehow managed to not realise i'm ehird
< 1290905461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's go with yes, that's more amusing than no < 1290905464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott -----###
< 1290905492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose the annoyingness gives it away huh < 1290905495 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1290905523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, why does this not work < 1290905552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well yeah it's obviously irssi converting iso-8859-1 on the channel into utf-8 on my screen < 1290905599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or well it should, i'm not sure i've seen it working since i changed my terminal to utf-8 < 1290905626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did convert both to iso-8859-1 as best it could before < 1290905661 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: My font is also Courier New, but it shows not a blank space but a empty square often used for replacement of unknown unicode characters. < 1290905725 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Squeeze to support ZFS root. < 1290905729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. at least Phantom_Hoover's → showed up nicely. < 1290905791 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: With fuse? lol. < 1290905799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: How else? < 1290905816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: There's a native port going on that is totally illegal to distribute a binary of. (They haven't bothered porting the POSIX layer yet though :P) < 1290905835 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: Reliable way to get a server error and disconnect: Hit (in my case with a sword) a minecart you're in. < 1290905870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mmm, illegal. < 1290905873 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It occurs to me that a FUSE / is the stupidest idea ever. < 1290905876 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not illegal when distributed as source. < 1290905883 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could perfectly well go into Gentoo. < 1290905888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll certainly go into Gentoo. < 1290905904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They already offer things that are illegal to distribute as binaries, after all. < 1290905906 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What makes it illegal to distribute the binary? < 1290905928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The license for ZFS is GPL-incompatible. < 1290905953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Oracle (formerly Sun) hates progress. < 1290905981 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would be highly impractical to implement ZFS from scratch. < 1290906033 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1290906050 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shame, too. < 1290906055 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZFS is *ridiculously* good. < 1290906090 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically Oracle is the current Most Evil Company? < 1290906102 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the large contenders, anyway < 1290906125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They have always been, really. < 1290906126 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-222.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290906140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most evil tech company. < 1290906157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monsanto and Dow blow all the tech companies away when it comes to evil. < 1290906194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hadn't even heard of Dow before now
< 1290906226 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1290906230 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard of either < 1290906273 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: They both manufactured Agent Orange. < 1290906280 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Sun were actually one of the nicer tech companies. < 1290906287 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes their acquisition all the more depressing. < 1290906294 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you don't know who monsanto are? lol. < 1290906302 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also even I knew who Dow are... < 1290906309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dow Chemical is also notable for the worst industrial accident ever: Bhopal. < 1290906314 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the name is familiar < 1290906321 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some 16,000 died from that. < 1290906325 0 :Guest43641!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Goose124 < 1290906336 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monsanto makes genetically engineered food, modified in such a way that you _have_ to buy new seeds from them every season. probably other evil things, too. < 1290906345 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"@wikileaks Speaking as Wikipedia's co-founder, I consider you enemies of the U.S.--not just the government, but the people." -- Larry Sanger, Citizendium founder! (Also Wikipedia co-founder, but let's just try and forget that ever happened.) < 1290906351 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1290906368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they also do bad things to farmers who refuse to buy from them :p < 1290906370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: They're also a notable chemical manufacturer. < 1290906378 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1290906398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They produce the herbicides and the seeds that are resistant to them. < 1290906447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: They sell water from Bhopal now: http://theyesmen.org/blog/dow-runs-scared-from-water < 1290906453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (I would link to the actual site but -- alas -- it is down.) < 1290906475 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they've also done DDT. < 1290906511 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... And they had plans to eliminate all non-genetically-engineered members of species they do genetic engineering on. < 1290906519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were responsible for bhopal i guess must have heard the name, it's just so forgettable. < 1290906525 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*i must < 1290906537 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, yeah, they're ridiculously evil. < 1290906542 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not use herbicides and pesticides and those kind of generic engineering, they will mess up everything and I do not need it. < 1290906576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what if you were in an area with a shitload of mosquitos < 1290906666 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Wear protection. < 1290906768 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a full body suit? < 1290906831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ye olde burka < 1290906929 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not necessarily. < 1290906937 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what then < 1290906975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that is a bad area to be in, in general; regardless of pesticides, full body suit, or anything else. < 1290907054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the northernmost county of norway is notorious for swarms of mosquitos. fortunately they don't have malaria, though. < 1290907076 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, similar for north Sweden < 1290907080 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Then that is good. Since they don't have malaria! < 1290907085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: swatted to death < 1290907118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Malaria_geographic_distribution_2003.png It's hard to avoid malaria. < 1290907189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh all of US is free? actually i'd guess some chemical companies would take the honor for that ;D < 1290907208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's genuinely courtesy of DDT. < 1290907274 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "@wikileaks Speaking as Wikipedia's co-founder, I consider you enemies of the U.S.--not just the government, but the people." -- Larry Sanger, Citizendium founder! (Also Wikipedia co-founder, but let's just try and forget that ever happened.) <-- what caused him to say that? < 1290907283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming with norway and many other of the green countries it is simply the cold. although i'm sure Italy had it once... the _name_ is from there after all < 1290907299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "hurr revealing it puts the people at risk" < 1290907303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Wikileaks is the good idea < 1290907306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably because of, i dunno, TERRISTS or something < 1290907346 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, well I meant: anything specific lately < 1290907353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1290907358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Indeed, it was actually eradicated from Western Europe, the US, and Australia. Other places just never had it. < 1290907361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in reply to an unrelated thing on the wikileaks twitter < 1290907367 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Vorpal was asking about his distancing himself from Wikipedia < 1290907392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, ... no? < 1290907402 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you completely misread that < 1290907415 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look where the quotes are < 1290907456 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the risk is pretty close to nil outside of sub-Saharan Africa, anyways. < 1290907473 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1290907522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1290907560 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh major document release coming up tomorrow < 1290907561 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ^ < 1290907567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what caused it I presume < 1290907571 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1290907572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1290907572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that "Speaking as Wikipedia's co-founder" just makes him sound desperate, naturally < 1290907586 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: especially as he basically hates wikipedia now :) < 1290907591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :desperate for attention < 1290907629 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph why can't i use the bios putstr after using my vga memory cls... < 1290907724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, it depends on what's being released, and how much is being redacted < 1290907766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It really doesn't. < 1290907777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If they redact anything I consider that a blight upon Wikileaks. < 1290907818 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, individual names of people whose lives may be at risk if their names are publicised? < 1290907837 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Killed by who? The US government? < 1290907842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You realise how blatantly transparent of them that would be? < 1290907910 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, diplomatic cable messages it seems < 1290907915 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe persons who've been cooperative with the US who infiltrate whoever? I'm not referring specificially to the upcoming release, I don't know what it's about < 1290907921 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying in genral < 1290907922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :general < 1290907930 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, like the embassies sending messages home < 1290907932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If you restate that in a way that's actually coherent maybe you'll have a point. < 1290907934 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1290907944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: will be interesting to see. < 1290907959 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I'm sure this can cause some well needed embarrassment for some < 1290907975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1290908007 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some news articles seem to indicate that israel was briefed about potential embarrassment by the US today. Ha. Ha. < 1290908016 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Admittedly the Wikileaks name is unfortunate; it used MediaWiki but was not much of a wiki. (And they've taken that down due to bandwidth, it seems, as well as all the pre-Iraq War logs leaks.) < 1290908023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although the "Collateral Murder" video is probably still there.) < 1290908035 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, the US have been telling everyone "You won't like this!" and not much else < 1290908045 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed < 1290908060 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: meanwhile, your government still has a warrant out for Assange's arrest, and recently sentenced everyone in the Pirate Bay case to jail time. < 1290908062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on you :P < 1290908063 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, no, all _we_ know is that the US is saying "You won't like this" < 1290908070 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, yes it sucks < 1290908077 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh yeah i'm sure just that was leaked and nothing else < 1290908116 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, the release hasn't happened yet, has it? < 1290908131 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, Israel are still denying having nuclear weapons right? < 1290908146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: If you restate that in a way that's actually coherent maybe you'll have a point. <-- now you're just being dense on purpose. < 1290908164 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, one thing to hope for then is that this contains proof for that < 1290908226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no < 1290908233 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i mean the fact that they were briefing others < 1290908244 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really, his statement was too vague to constitute much of an objection < 1290908302 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yet you understand perfectly that there _may_ be people at risk - it was a major issue in previous leaks after all < 1290908313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*with previous leaks < 1290908353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although those were more directly concerned with war zones < 1290908380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes, if it was a war log thing i'd listen to that complaint more. but embassy messages? < 1290908383 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and the like < 1290908386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well may be. we don't know what will be leaked.) < 1290908387 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: besides afaik nobody has actually died. < 1290908390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes we do < 1290908396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, hence me saying in general < 1290908405 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "Wikileaks to release 251,287 cables and 8,000 diplomatic directives, 1966-present, none classified as "top secret", only "secret"" --Der Spiegel < 1290908414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(indirect quote via reddit :P) < 1290908420 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: embassy messages can contain things about informants, surely < 1290908459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure, but nothing on the level of war logs. < 1290908472 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and again i don't know that anyone's actually died. < 1290908484 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's rather unlikely < 1290908485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we may not know whether anyone has died, i'm sure the taliban and the like kill people on suspicion all the time < 1290908500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sure, but we'd expect to hear about it. usually. < 1290908504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, anything with an informant's name should be redacted. Just the name. And other material containing enough detail to identify someone, perhaps < 1290908513 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway i agree that care needs to be taken in sensitive situations. < 1290908522 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but definitely don't redact anyone not at risk < 1290908526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't redact any high-profile figures < 1290908616 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would we hear about it? it may have been some nobody from a remote village who only spoke to someone once too much < 1290908619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NetHack needs a FooTV and Sequell equivalent < 1290908671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it confirmed that there were informant names present? < 1290908721 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My primary complaint with Wikileaks is this: almost all of the information they've leaked is information that should never have been classified in the first place. < 1290908771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, even if it should have been, should not have been classified long. < 1290908804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But that is why they leak it, isn't it? < 1290908823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1290908841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm just damned annoyed that there's anything *to leak*. < 1290908858 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's not really a complaint about Wikileaks :P < 1290908862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1290908862 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah, are you annoyed by the government? < 1290908878 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's more concerning their existence than *about* them, yeah. < 1290908880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1290908886 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "My main complaint about Wikileaks is that the Iraq war should never have happened!" < 1290908889 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: bit of a weird thing to say < 1290908907 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yeah, well, it's true. Fuck Bush so hard. < 1290908932 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Obama isn't exactly perfect either :P < 1290908947 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, better than Bush by far thouh < 1290908950 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though* < 1290908964 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, also: pulling out *is* tricky < 1290908974 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Should have warn a war condom. Wait, what? < 1290908976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worn < 1290908992 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, what indeed < 1290908993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: And sure, "by far", but really it's a tiny step to the left and people scream "communist". < 1290909003 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck that, we know what real communists are and they're not Obama. < 1290909018 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, indeed mostly done < 1290909020 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obama is a right-wing corporatist, and so was Clinton. And so was just about every modern US president ever. < 1290909024 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but I meant to get here < 1290909034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: right < 1290909051 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night → < 1290909093 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character in D&D game is ettercap; so, now they can make "secret society of those who kill ettercap" and some will be found in the game. < 1290909179 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I don't think Obama's great. Bush was just a right bastard. < 1290909380 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah. < 1290909513 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the fuck is my computer beeping at me < 1290909535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm obviously cognate with norwegian "edderkopp" - but is ettercap an old english word? < 1290909608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's a network tool :P < 1290909624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An ettercap is one of a race of bestial spider-men aberrations in the Dungeons & Dragons game." < 1290909625 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me if you think this ANSI program is wrong? http://sprunge.us/jTaA < 1290909627 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even ettercap -windows -dungeons -sniff -monster gives no google hits not about either the tool or the d&d monster < 1290909630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name is derived from the Danish word for spider, edderkop, and is related to attercop, an archaic word for poisonous spider, used in J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit.[citation needed] < 1290909638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see ^ < 1290909650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so it's been mangled < 1290909671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, it's a Tolkienism. < 1290909680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly that either < 1290909722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MZM is a zzo38 thing? < 1290909734 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: MZM is a format used by MegaZeux. < 1290910078 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have suggested this "secret society" to the dungeon master (I prefer "referee", the term used in Icosahedral RPG) < 1290910115 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different games use different terms < 1290910124 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess I wasn't aware there was a term besides DM and GM < 1290910128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1290910229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i recall some game used "Storyteller" < 1290910253 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I suppose that term also works. < 1290910266 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still prefer "referee" < 1290910285 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most prefer to go with the term closely associated with the game < 1290910292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DM for D&D, GM for Paranoia, etc < 1290910306 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DM for Paranoia really doesn't make sense, it's not a dungeon < 1290910308 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably < 1290910318 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :World of Darkness, it seems < 1290910331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not always the dungeon in D&D, either. It is only sometimes. < 1290910394 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just spent an hour and a half tuning my melodica. Huge pain in the arse, but totally worth it, it sounds so much better now. < 1290910503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to make my character is monster character in D&D game. I also like to do the other strange thing with D&D game. < 1290910602 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the other strange thing in D&D game? < 1290910884 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out where the beeping is coming from < 1290910901 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Where is it coming from? < 1290910907 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A flash chat < 1290910918 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I wasn't paying any attention to < 1290911039 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "tuning" your "melodica" < 1290911053 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ... yes. Only without the quotes, since I was in fact tuning my melodica. < 1290911087 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes. You were "tuning" "your" "melodica". < 1290911090 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Or rather, you "were". < 1290911094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You" "were". < 1290911265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uoy" "were". < 1290911283 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uoy" "where". < 1290911306 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gregor:" "You" "were" "tuning" "your" "melodica""." < 1290911331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean "Aardvarks make such tasty bedtime snacks." < 1290911503 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next time my character is also monster character, but perhaps a different one, and perhaps a class I invent, with strange things not in the book. < 1290911622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else could you mean? < 1290911653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Maybe you could mean "This is not 'This is not a pipe'." < 1290911892 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how it goes: Ettercap: "I am going to put a spell on you." Human: "What spell?" Ettercap: "I am going to put a 'This is not a pipe' spell on you." Real estate agent: "This is not 'This is not a pipe'." < 1290911907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1290911965 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The melodica's a cool dude < 1290912022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "Now" you are being "silly". By which i mean nearly always, and completely nuts. < 1290912024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is how I play the game (where my character is the ettercap and your character is human) < 1290912031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "", by which I mean . < 1290912046 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, exactly. Is that, too, please. < 1290912050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha ha, i just wanted dependent typing in haskell. < 1290912170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is not "Dette er ikke 'Dies ist kein "Ceci n'est pas une pipe"'" < 1290912184 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I have to invent a "This is not a pipe" spell. (Do you have idea?) < 1290912210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. each invocation has to be in a different language. < 1290912212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that is the better way, I think. < 1290912336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ha! I faked dependent types < 1290912391 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I invent this spell, then I can put this spell on someone/something, in the game. < 1290912398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAEC NON EST PIPA < 1290912409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: pipa is apparently very vulgar latin) < 1290912452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My character does know many different languages, including ones they cannot speak but can write. < 1290912467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you put it on a pipe, the effect should be obvious. but does it have any effect on things that are already not pipes? < 1290912502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe it does, but I do not know what it is (yet). (Because the spell is not written, yet) < 1290912751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: pipa pipa pipa < 1290912866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION assumes elliott realizes that was a pun on the fact that "vulgar" in "vulgar latin" is not quite the same as its modern meaning
< 1290912871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But, the other guy I put the spell on is not necessarily human, they might even be also ettercap, for instance. Or, even a normal animal or a inanimate object, or the air, or on another of my own spell.) < 1290912891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i know, i know. < 1290912924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although given the word in question, it probably has attracted the modern sense too < 1290913228 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I say the spell is called "This is not a pipe", I do not necessarily mean that its target will be not a pipe, what I do mean is that that spell itself is not a pipe. < 1290913280 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@2001:4428:251:1:221:27ff:fece:82fb JOIN :#esoteric < 1290913280 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Changing host < 1290913280 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1290913287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1290913314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very self-conscious spell. < 1290913468 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Maybe it could mean a pipe similar to how it means a pipe in UNIX.) < 1290913502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was sort of thinking it could use the widest possible sense of "pipe", so yeah < 1290913546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, use the widest possible sense of "pipe". < 1290913605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :havoc might be had if someone managed to find a sense in which the spell actually _was_ a pipe < 1290913637 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, and that is (part of) the effect of this spell, I guess? < 1290913649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1290913677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOAL: Write a specialiser for the lambda calculus. PARTIAL RESULT: 39 lines of implementing the "Fin n" type in Haskell. < 1290913712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now 33. yay, progress < 1290913714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/specialiser/spellcaster/ < 1290913722 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact only really 18, since the rest are just helper functions. but still < 1290913726 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no :P < 1290913741 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Correct, I was just joking, plese. < 1290913751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oky. < 1290913764 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRUPTO LAMBDAM < 1290913961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: n = S n < 1290913962 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1290914022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR FAKE TYPES FOOL NO ONE < 1290914045 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there some extension that bypasses that? < 1290914067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't _think_ so < 1290914170 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no, that would completely break the type system < 1290914184 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION appears to have shifted his puzzle addiction from killer sudoku to light up
< 1290914230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's so much that it would break as that it would make a _lot_ of things accidentally type correctly which you wouldn't want to < 1290914246 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: same thing :P < 1290914256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i think it actually makes the system unsound, not sure < 1290914258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, ocaml _does_ have a a switch to turn it off < 1290914259 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1290914269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i distinctly recall coding something impossible using ocaml's switch to do that < 1290914280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1290914312 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't recall how :D < 1290914327 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am probably misremembering < 1290914328 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-a < 1290914367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used it in my unlambda "compiler" with afaik no ill effect < 1290914382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i wasn't trying to break anything < 1290914421 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290914440 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and anyway haskell has newtypes which give you the same efficiency in the compiled program < 1290914441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: Fin (S n) -> LC (S t1) -> t -> LC (S n1) < 1290914441 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Inferred type: Fin n -> t -> LC t1 -> t2 < 1290914449 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell: 99% typechecking, 1% coding! < 1290914459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out what i actually did wrong < 1290914466 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290914468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parameter order wrong < 1290914471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple problem for once :D < 1290914481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope another issue! < 1290914496 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: convince me not to write this in coq < 1290914509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't see why he should
< 1290914541 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: because dude, coq. < 1290914567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even really know coq, anyway < 1290914709 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and you know haskell! all the more reason < 1290914717 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290914747 0 :Goose124!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290914782 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, writing this out i just realised i essentially have a >= condition in my type < 1290914785 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fail* < 1290914832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fianna fail < 1290915023 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE GADTs, EmptyDataDecls, ScopedTypeVariables, MultiParamTypeClasses #-} < 1290915027 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translation: your program will never work < 1290915034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1290915079 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290915081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it will work, just avoid IncoherentInstances >:) < 1290915136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know, if i didn't bother with all this type-level stuff and just allowed my programs to barf on invalid lambda calculus programs, this would work fine < 1290915138 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nooooooooo < 1290915141 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to have it correct < 1290915711 0 :wxl!62e8e4a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.98.232.228.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290915873 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290915890 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone explain to me why the Fugue cat example is equivalent to 2(?!) in Prelude and not ?(?!) or ?(!?) {equivalent to brainfuck ,[.,]} < 1290915971 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290915974 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to revise the question, i don't get why pushing 2 makes it work. ?(?!) has equivalent function, yet pushing two and asking for input certainly isn't equivalent. < 1290915999 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1290916121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxl: i doubt we have any experts on prelude here :D < 1290916150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxl: perhaps it isn't equivalent and someone made a mistake? < 1290916154 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a single voice program which makes it a little more approachable < 1290916163 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they both work, which is what's odd < 1290916171 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxl: You can also post the question on the wiki, as well. < 1290916202 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there's a thought < 1290916325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxl: i think 2(?!) is equivalent to ?(!?) < 1290916350 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: explain? < 1290916364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1290916373 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290916401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think 2(?!) is equivalent _except_ that it doesn't stop on character 0 < 1290916485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the 2 is always what remains on the stack when checking the loop < 1290916536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so dependent on how the implementation treats eof, it might happen to/seem to work < 1290916545 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhh < 1290916606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol subst is the most fucked up function ever why < 1290916651 0 :Sasha!~WHAT@97-124-35-222.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290916654 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: they both seem to have no problem with eof.. of course, as you said, the implementation may have something to do with it < 1290916684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subst :: (Peano n) => LC n -> LC (S n) -> LC n < 1290916685 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subst r (Lam e) = Lam (subst r e) < 1290916690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the heck does this fail... < 1290916734 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ha < 1290916744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that the eof behavior was one of the ambiguities resolved in the http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/w/index.php?title=Prelude&diff=7938&oldid=6758 edit < 1290916823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe one or more of the implementations is older than that < 1290916913 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that's part of the joy of esolangs: the esoteric, uh ness. < 1290916942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wxl: you could also try asking lament, he is on freenode just not presently on this channel < 1290916956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the language author) < 1290916994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't come here very often these days < 1290917034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will read http://www.itu.dk/people/sestoft/pebook/ soon < 1290917046 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i already told him to :) < 1290917049 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why he's still here :P < 1290917064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290917208 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrrr, why is haskell inadequate for this < 1290917212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna write a specialiser < 1290917289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it, i'll accept invalid programs < 1290917807 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many computer baseball game, but there is not one of cricket? Probably to make a computer cricket game, the accurate physics would be much more important. < 1290918313 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eliteskills.com/z/149741 < 1290918363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Specialisers are hard. < 1290918378 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: in this case it was problems with haskell's inadequate type system :) < 1290918398 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cricket_video_games < 1290918442 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway, specialising the untyped lambda calculus, what could be easier, it's basically beta reduction's retarded cousin :) < 1290918453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. :) < 1290918473 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Is it true that accurate physics are more important? Or not? < 1290918515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i don't know cricket. < 1290918588 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually all the games have unrealistic physics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Beach_Sports < 1290918612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know how good the physics compares with the Bocce game in the book "More BASIC Computer Games". < 1290918650 0 :wxl!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1290918803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, does Y Y reduce to Y Y or does it grow forever? < 1290918810 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ignoring the obvious equivalence, I mean under standard simplifications) < 1290919032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ok i underestimated the difficulty of a good specialiser < 1290919093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall in 0x29A the SII(SII) equivalent grew indefinitely < 1290919121 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it was basically because Ix wasn't simplified to x other than in head position < 1290919261 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's not quite Y Y though :P < 1290919281 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: simplify :: LC -> LC is one of the gnarliest operations ever < 1290919286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might depend on the order of your reductions anyway < 1290919290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically eval, except you can't do anything that might not terminate. great! < 1290919298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnarliest as in < 1290919299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible. < 1290919301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you ever get to all that you _could_ have reduced < 1290919323 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that a deep philosophical treatise < 1290919351 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my specialiser is too dumb to be able to specialise iszero on zero to true :D < 1290919367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but you see if you have something like Ix deep inside your term you _could_ reduce it immediately but you don't need to just to get a correct evaluation < 1290919405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you only reduce lazily, you probably won't < 1290919489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SII(SII) -> I(SII)(I(SII)) -> SII(I(SII)) -> I(I(SII))(I(I(SII))) -> I(SII)(I(I(SII))) -> SII(I(I(SII))) -> I(I(I(SII)))(I(I(I(SII)))) < 1290919494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. etc. < 1290919541 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290919623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right < 1290919642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh the LC version of that doesn't have that problem: (λx.xx)(λx.xx) -> (λx.xx)(λx.xx) < 1290919642 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290919648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the problem, of course, being that a specialiser is basically just a simplifier of ((\x. E) y); i.e., id is a perfectly "good" specialiser < 1290919654 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all this stuff ends up actually mattering :) < 1290919659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no clear definition of how to "simplify" something < 1290919775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have you looked at my unlambda improved abstraction eliminator in scheme? it basically did only simplifications that shrink the result, iirc. mainly ignoring evaluating Sxyz, i think < 1290919789 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no -- got a link? i guess i could grep your website < 1290919799 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: lambda expressions of course make this a lot harder :) < 1290919824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/ulify2.scm < 1290919840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's based on an earlier one in the distribution < 1290919908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it uses some hairy unlambda specific stuff like `d`k... < 1290919939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: wow @ this program < 1290919942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it, uh < 1290919943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readable :D < 1290919980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er is that sarcasm or not? :D < 1290920004 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. yes it is. :P < 1290920017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott -----###
< 1290920021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hey, it uses inertness like i do! < 1290920025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, uh, not much of an achievement < 1290920034 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ow. < 1290920122 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now my TRUE plan is of course to first write a specialiser for the lambda calculus written in haskell outputting lambda calculus, and then write a specialiser for the lambda calculus in haskell outputting C, and then write an interpreter for the lambda calculus in the lambda calculus < 1290920140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then running specialiserToC interpL interpL < 1290920157 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thus giving me an efficient interpreter of the lambda calculus in C! MWAHHAHA < 1290920175 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then I shall write a language sitting atop of the lambda calculus, and reimplement my two specialisers in that. < 1290920189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1290920196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then i shall do, in my language, (specialiserToC specialiserToC specialiserToC) < 1290920210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will create a C program that, uh < 1290920229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you doing pure lambda calculus? in which case inertness would just be termination, no? < 1290920242 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this will create a C program that takes an interpreter for a language written in a lambda calculus, and results in a compiler for that language written in C < 1290920260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and then -- and THEN -- I will write an operating system in the lambda calculus. and it will be efficient, dammit. < 1290920295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes but < 1290920300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I use inert to mean "not an application" < 1290920305 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a lambda or a variable reference < 1290920317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to suggest a MWAHAHA there but i see you already did one < 1290920330 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so if eval x == x, then if it's inert, the final evaluation result is that; otherwise you just infinite-loop forever < 1290920336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if they aren't equal you continue evaluating like normal obviously) < 1290920358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: eval being one step there < 1290920544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: anyway all of this falls down because the lambda calculus is too much of a goddamn lambda-and-application soup to do any decent simplification/optimisation/compilation of :) < 1290920633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about linearity, specifically functions that only use their arguments once. simplifying those is guaranteed to terminate < 1290920644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*once or less, actually < 1290920661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would at least allow simplifications of things involving i and k < 1290920684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think this is good so far? Any opinion/changes? http://sprunge.us/UZCN < 1290920740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that license is terrible, it seems incredibly shaky. < 1290920797 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What would you suggest to change it so that it works? < 1290920830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION generally assumes than one shouldn't try to write a license unless one is a lawyer
< 1290920861 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Not using the GPL3 with a linking exception? Just use the LGPL... < 1290920889 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assumptions shouldn't be made in licenses < 1290920894 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how you get fucked. < 1290920898 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But I only want to allow this kind of linking in certain circumstances! < 1290920928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: enter law school < 1290920954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Enter law school, or at least read copyright law. < 1290920956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as I have) < 1290920968 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I cannot work this exception, I will probably just remove it and have the proper GNU GPL v3 in effect. < 1290920987 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20$ no one will even care about it anyways. < 1290920989 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: If you have done so, can you make any suggestions regarding this license exception? < 1290920990 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, give me my money. < 1290920999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: MIT it. < 1290921011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD it. < 1290921014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public domain it. < 1290921029 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And lol. I was thinking befunge for a second, that's a lot of ends... < 1290921067 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK those are some suggestions, but I do not think I will do so. I will just remove the exception and use the GPLv3. < 1290921086 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless any better suggestions regarding the exception come) < 1290921099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at a minimum, read the GPLv3 and the LGPLv3's additional clause... < 1290921110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the part about additional permissions. < 1290921119 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will read that. < 1290921163 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically what I want, is to allow someone to use a part of a code for another roguelike to build a front-end for Secrets of SoS. < 1290921176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if that other code is not GPL'd. < 1290921203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, exactly, are you so adamant about it being GPL'd < 1290921205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1290921209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what if it's like that except they wrote the code? < 1290921212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it isn't gpl'd < 1290921234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LGPL is really truly what you want. You may not realise it, but it is what you want. < 1290921252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or, of course, a more permissive license) < 1290921289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a kitten < 1290921330 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It does not matter who wrote the code. I am also OK with it if someone wants to write a front-end but does not like the GPL. < 1290921342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: then you want the LGPL, basically < 1290921365 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290921430 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just add a clause "The Software should be used for Good, not Evil." That way, it'll look good, but actually nobody'll be legally allowed to use it at all. < 1290921457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will look at LGPL, then. But I am not quite sure that I want *all* additional permissions of the LGPL. < 1290921464 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290921478 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do not want such a clause. It is not even sensible, nor properly meaningful. < 1290921492 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, it isn't, it's totally stupid and horrible :P < 1290921501 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Douglas Crockford uses it for some software because he's an idiot :P < 1290921529 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: The LGPL offers *an* additional permission, IIRC. < 1290921558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: concur w/ Douglas Crockford being an idiot < 1290921566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: dunno why he's so popular < 1290921580 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: his most famous invention is the literals of another language :) < 1290921586 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I do agree that that "Good, not Evil" clause is stupid and evil, though. < 1290921588 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :P < 1290921677 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if I write "This program is licensed by LGPL, but modified versions must be licensed under GPL unless the original author gives you permission to license under LGPL and this version is still licensed under LGPL (but you have a modified version under GPL, you may not relicense it under LGPL under any circumstances)"? < 1290921714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/and evil/and horrible/ < 1290921716 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then that's not the LGPL. < 1290921742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "2+2=4 but 2+2≠4" makes as much sense. < 1290921748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what < 1290921749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend something more like licensing it under the GPL disjuncted with a license that allows redistribution in any form but no modification. < 1290921761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend LGPL. < 1290921773 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Well, I mean to accomplish this particular strange goal ;) < 1290921783 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't actually recommend that :P < 1290921820 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, I'm trying to give sane recommendations, not satisfy zzo38's NIH when it comes to licensing. < 1290921820 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I suppose that is one way. (I have seen programs, that while not the GPL, do have a license that give explicit permissions separately both for modified and for unmodified versions.) < 1290921827 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In a similar way) < 1290921841 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I think your software does not meet the FSF's definition of Free. < 1290921854 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Debian's, so you can't have your program included in Debian. < 1290921857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Fedora's. < 1290921857 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I understand that; that is OK. < 1290921874 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Sure it does, it's GPL in the worst case. < 1290921885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hmm, true < 1290921886 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think it does meet the FSF's definition of Free. You may relicense under the GNU GPL v3 and therefore it is properly Free. < 1290921887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: well it shouldn't >:) < 1290921896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would, however, make Debian very angry at you. < 1290921901 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likewise with Gentoo. < 1290921932 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make a disjunct license so that the distros can choose to use it under GPL if they please. Trying to make weird compound licenses is a bad idea. < 1290921948 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then let Debian change the license to the GNU GPL only if somebody wants to maintain a package of this program for Debian. < 1290921951 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just have it be under the GPL, or some modified version of say BSD that disallows further modification unless you redistribute under exclusively the GPL. < 1290921985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: That is an idea. < 1290921994 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: disjunctive licensing is not a compound license, it is a choice of licenses :P ) < 1290921994 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can try that. < 1290922012 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is actually not the worst licensing idea I've ever heard. < 1290922021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LGPL it, please. What you want to do is wrong. < 1290922029 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Why, do you talk to rms on a daily basis? < 1290922035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much more wrong than parsing HTML with regexps. < 1290922043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "I've been thinking about requiring people to distribute a copy of the GNU Manifesto with every GPLv4'd program..." < 1290922045 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I understand at least that much about compound license (I think). < 1290922047 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dood, I parse HTML with regexps EVERY DAY < 1290922053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : NERD < 1290922054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ASPIE < 1290922056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: May God have mercy on your soul. < 1290922056 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : RAAAAAAAAAGE < 1290922062 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [bothers Gregor for the next 700 yeras] < 1290922064 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*years] < 1290922071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU KNOW IT'S INEVITABLE < 1290922078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: HTML is impossible to parse with regexps. The pain and agony he suffers from it should suffice. < 1290922088 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to dedicate myself to learning 5 of the most esoteric languages < 1290922094 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than bf < 1290922101 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: The 5 best, or the 5 most esoteric? < 1290922108 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most < 1290922112 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge will be one < 1290922112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homespring. < 1290922113 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If the GNU Manifesto must be distributed with every GPLv4'd program, then just make it part of the license. And then it already says you have to distribute the license and that is good enough. But what about a problem in case it makes the license too long, then? < 1290922120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must learn Homespring. < 1290922123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: 5 classics: INTERCAL, Underload, Unlambda, Befunge-93, [insert a language]. < 1290922124 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very well < 1290922133 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290922138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Homespring! < 1290922139 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll add them to the list to try < 1290922149 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll learn befunge for sure < 1290922150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: 5 most esoteric: Some kind of 2L/1L, Bitwise Cyclic Tag, Homespring, not sure what else. < 1290922161 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/// ! < 1290922174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah yes < 1290922179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: and Thue < 1290922188 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmk < 1290922218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: now i want to write a self-interpreter in /// :D < 1290922237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1290922245 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cant find /// < 1290922246 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1290922247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: which, ow, just hurts my brain < 1290922251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Slashes < 1290922255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: < 1290922256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Slashes < 1290922300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you probably want to use Itflabtijtslwi < 1290922319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't see why, your BCT interpreter didn't < 1290922348 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what I don't get? The licenses of jQuery and Mozilla. < 1290922349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true but then you need to encode the interpreted program into it < 1290922364 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having disjunctive licenses where one is strictly more restrictive than another is nonsense. < 1290922372 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: compatibility? < 1290922373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno :P < 1290922375 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashes is awesome looking < 1290922390 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: jquery is mit/gpl, wtf. but mozilla is mpl/gpl/apache iirc < 1290922395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes more sense since they're all crazy < 1290922398 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Mozilla is MPL/GPL/LGPL < 1290922400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: even more fun! < 1290922407 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just escape everything :P < 1290922408 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It's the GPL/LGPL part that's nonsense. < 1290922412 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl < 1290922432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: it took several years to find out that /// actually was turing complete < 1290922441 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290922521 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can BCT do? < 1290922547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: sure it's just that Itflabtijtslwi is powerful enough to do that initial escaping for you < 1290922558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: well, it's probably the esolang with the simplest semantics. or close. < 1290922563 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think perhaps the GPL v4 should allow you to have a work licensed under the LGPL with the original author / copyright holder allowed to add rules indicating under what conditions you are allowed to keep the LGPL for modified versions; otherwise you must switch to GPL. < 1290922565 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290922566 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaik nobody's actually written a program in it to do anything < 1290922574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, collatz sequence < 1290922587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think the GPL v4 should have something that makes it work a bit better for literate programming. < 1290922615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Literate programming is when the covered work is both a book and a program simultaneously) < 1290922628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: BCT cannot _do_ much, but it's turing complete and extremely simple to implement in other things < 1290922642 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BCT IS TURING COMPLETE? < 1290922654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wikis
< 1290922662 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290922663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. that's how i showed /// was, by implementing BCT in it < 1290922686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that copyright law should cease to be. < 1290922697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then GPLv4 will never be. < 1290922730 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that irur < 1290922738 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I am OK with that if copyright law ceases, as long as patent law also ceases. < 1290922770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patent law doesn't need *removed*, it just needs rewritten by non-morons. < 1290922804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: patents are less useful than copyright < 1290922815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see any reason to keep them and abolish copyright < 1290922825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think patent law does need to be removed, regardless of whether or not copyright law is removed. < 1290922860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Patents still possess some validity in the modern day and age. On physical inventions. Though the length of the patent grant is absurdly long. < 1290922882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copyright, however, is completely and utterly outmoded by cp(1). < 1290922898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, i cba for patents < 1290922900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're worthless < 1290922927 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software, "idea", and genetic patents, though, are worse than worthless. < 1290922933 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They genuinely hold back industry. < 1290922953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** note to self http://www.cs.york.ac.uk/ftpdir/reports/2003/YCST/04/YCST-2003-04.pdf lazy specialisation < 1290922955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But trademark is good thing. Patent is bad thing. < 1290922957 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a bookmarking sysstem < 1290922958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*system < 1290922970 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/ also < 1290922976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Trademark is not merely a good thing, but the *laws* on it are mostly good as well! < 1290922980 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thyer.name/phd-thesis/ < 1290922982 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290922992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy specialisation is probably The One True Type of Language Implementation < 1290923000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only problem is that it goes through the court system. < 1290923002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is demonstrated that a completely lazy evaluator is capable of eliminating towers of interpreters." < 1290923010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the courts are highly flawed ATM. < 1290923017 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes. < 1290923031 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290923147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/#comment-863 ooh. < 1290923150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1290923152 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1290923346 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The LGPL is what I want except that I want modified versions only under the GPL. < 1290923404 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, no extensions of exceptions.) < 1290923483 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit < 1290923489 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dimensifuck looks awesome :D < 1290923491 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1290923640 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Thank you. < 1290923655 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut? < 1290923670 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm Josiah "pikhq" Worcester. < 1290923673 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1290923693 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Goosey will come across PSOX
< 1290923701 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1290923704 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kidding me? < 1290923718 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You made df :D < 1290923732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. What can I say, high school was boring. < 1290923752 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1290923759 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find any interpreters :( < 1290923761 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Goosey's head will explode when he meets zzo38
< 1290923765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another difference with literate programming is the way header files work (see section 3 of the LGPL). < 1290923765 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290923802 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1290923813 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's zz038 o-o < 1290923827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a letter o < 1290923841 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo made PSOX huh :D < 1290923855 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, yeah, not my proudest moment < 1290923864 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290923904 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who's zzo38 < 1290923923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A guy with the most awesome case of NIH you'll ever meet. < 1290923945 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit < 1290923953 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's made a bit of stuff < 1290923970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1290924001 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: seems the dimensifuck implementations are not even on wayback machine yet, though they sometimes take time to make it available < 1290924001 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of his languages refers to one of my languages < 1290924023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: zzo38 is right here too you know :D < 1290924032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey df is actually not completely retarded < 1290924033 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1290924041 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. < 1290924056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sorry for always thinking df was bf with an infinite dimensional tape :D < 1290924099 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Nope, infinite dimensional code space. At least *somewhat* interesting. :) < 1290924103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you have copies of any dimensifuck implementation? < 1290924118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can check. < 1290924131 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me it to me too :P < 1290924162 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, divzeros < 1290924190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CWiJ Okay, here's a quick Python library that implements it. < 1290924203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, to actually use it... < 1290924225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/dVaX < 1290924226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar. < 1290924237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a fast coder and uploader < 1290924237 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1290924242 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No kidding :P < 1290924252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Copyright © 2006... < 1290924257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shh : < 1290924258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1290924266 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not even my code. :P < 1290924273 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which refers to one of your languages? (Now I forgot) < 1290924284 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He forgot :( < 1290924286 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GrainFimple refers to BF-RLE < 1290924296 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Ah, OK. < 1290924301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1290924305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yw < 1290924318 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually many of the esolangs I wrote refer to other people's esolangs. < 1290924325 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although BF-RLE is no more a separate language than Ook! is, so < 1290924332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sprunge.us suitable for linking to from the wiki? < 1290924334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just BF-RLE has a purposes besides looking weird < 1290924351 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reverse-ReverseFuck < 1290924354 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Pretty sure they recycle pastes. < 1290924359 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't you just call it ForwardFuck < 1290924362 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1290924373 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes but they should be replaced by different links as soon as possible < 1290924373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a web host. < 1290924392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: If you read the description of Reverse-ReverseFuck, you can see why I shouldn't just call it ForwardFuck. < 1290924410 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I read it, I just thought that sounded pretty good. :P < 1290924418 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems cool < 1290924433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here who can upload to the esoarchive? < 1290924460 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can upload to my DiagonalFish space < 1290924474 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cya later guys. < 1290924497 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye Goosey < 1290924508 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: And (just so you know if you want) I have written many other things too besides esolang < 1290924521 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1290924525 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290924537 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A web browser, an IRC client < 1290924552 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I think the message after PART is not logged in the clog? < 1290924559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once wrote an EMAIL < 1290924573 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 Cool, I'll be back tomorrow :) < 1290924580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:08:41 --- part: Sgeo left #esoteric < 1290924580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:08:45 --- join: Sgeo (~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net) joined #esoteric < 1290924580 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:08:57 A web browser, an IRC client < 1290924583 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: OK < 1290924600 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes, the "Leaving" part is not logged there. < 1290924607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1290924623 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1290924626 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290924638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand reverse-reversefuck is not something i would call not completely retarded < 1290924651 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1290924651 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290924667 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes I guess that is one way posting a message viewable anyone by the channel and not appear in the logs. < 1290924670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the dimensifuck page also contains a broken link to pikhq.nonlogic.org < 1290924698 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah, nonlogic has been down for a couple years now. < 1290924714 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How nonlogical < 1290924720 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i just implemented a language it's called rot13weird and basically it's you write a program and then it's rot13'd and run as wierd code < 1290924728 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, CthulhuIRCd logs exactly what is sent to every client on the channel, with a timestamp. (Hence the rule in SIRCL requiring line-endings to be CRLF even on UNIX) < 1290924748 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Creepy < 1290924755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers are rot13'd by adding |N|/2 modulo |N| < 1290924757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the requirement of SIRCL that the logs are logged in that way. < 1290924764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\mathbb{N} < 1290924778 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me not to give you my password in SIRCL < 1290924786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: NUMBERS DON'T WORK THAT WAY < 1290924791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or tell you my deep dark evil secrets < 1290924797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what do you mean? < 1290924813 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIRCL: Why would you ever do that anyways? There is no need to give me your password in SIRCL. < 1290924816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an exam on ERGODIC THEORY tomorrow, i think i know how numbers work. < 1290924822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they work like that < 1290924831 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it was a joke, I was not seriously planning on giving you any password < 1290924832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot add \mathbb{N}/2 to them and expect that to be a bijection < 1290924836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/SIRCL:/Sgeo:/ < 1290924837 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290924845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i can expect it to be any kind of jection i want < 1290924851 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need some math skillz < 1290924863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oklopol -----###
< 1290924873 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally < 1290924874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290924880 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do not give someone your password (or secrets) on *any* IRC channel, logged or not! < 1290924883 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I ever been swatted? < 1290924890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats Sgeo -----###
< 1290924891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1290924893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIRCL is simply one kind of log format for IRC. < 1290924959 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean I shouldn't tell you that when I was younger < 1290924960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1290924961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1290924965 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290925007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that license on that python file looks about as bad as zzo38's attempts, here... < 1290925026 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290925035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ... What the fuck did I do. < 1290925036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Okay. < 1290925047 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I hereby relicense it under the first license in the file. < 1290925057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Which is... 3-clause BSD. < 1290925064 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290925081 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poiuy_qwert can't be here without me obviously. < 1290925115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hm that's compatible with gpl, isn't it? so perhaps that's somehow consistent anyhow < 1290925127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It's consistent, yes. < 1290925134 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: But weird. < 1290925183 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any opinion about the file I posted, other than the licensing? < 1290925239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm just putting the sprunge.us links on the wiki for now. < 1290925393 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with sprunge.us ? < 1290925412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not sure if they're permalinks. < 1290925455 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my opinion, it is OK to use it, but they should be replaced as soon as possible and reasonable to do so. < 1290925688 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is sprunge.us a zzo38 invention? < 1290925691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks awesome < 1290925779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No, it's just awesome. < 1290925839 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably install cygwin at some poin < 1290925841 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point < 1290926015 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did not invent it but I do like it < 1290926165 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290926261 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290926593 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290927365 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290927464 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290927735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, pickled herring < 1290927804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, your Norwegianness is showing. < 1290927830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though that sounds like it could be quite good.) < 1290927835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1290927891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's considered christmas food here < 1290927942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that might not be considered a convincing argument by most foreigners (see: lutefisk) < 1290927997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less horrifying than rotten shark, though. < 1290928039 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iceland frightens me. < 1290928057 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Okay, so does Japan sometimes. Natto. *gag* < 1290928119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think pickled herring is sort of sushi like, although i wouldn't know because i've never dared to try _real_ sushi < 1290928142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like what sushi developed out of. < 1290928227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i guess you wouldn't want to eat raw untreated fish until your civilization had developed a certain degree of hygiene and refrigeration < 1290928272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sushi was originally fermented fish (hence the name, "sushi", or "sour"). The fermentation time shortened as preperation techniques made the fermentation less necessary, and it eventually went away. < 1290928287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1290928298 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And rice is involved because it was fermented in rice. < 1290928306 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i've been eating is called "sursild" in norwegian, literally sour herring < 1290928336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowadays, the only remnant of that is that the rice has some vinegar in it. < 1290928340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except this is sour because it contains vinegar and stuff, not because it's spoiled in any way < 1290928342 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1290928402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess that means the norwegian variant maybe fermented at one time too... < 1290928480 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's very few fermented foods that actually disturb me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natt%C5%8D This. < 1290928496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apparently pickling is considered a form of fermentation < 1290928515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acetic acid is produced via fermentation during pickling. < 1290928597 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wellnowwhat.net/blog/?p=434 < 1290928684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems salting is also considered pickling. < 1290928713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: natto just looks nasty < 1290928729 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some sort of insect egg mass < 1290928759 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Yuh. < 1290928818 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even that its fermented < 1290928821 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just that its slimey < 1290928822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the norwegian sursild i think is usually produced by _first_ salting the herring and afterwards changing to a vinegar solution < 1290928825 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the nasty part < 1290928840 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fermented soybean /paste/ < 1290928854 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats different, thats just miso mix and it looks like bean mush < 1290928864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the just salted herring (spekesild) may also be considered a delicacy on its own < 1290928965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i read that natto is supposedly healthy and there is a form of vitamin (K something?) that only exists in it... < 1290929020 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290929036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Doubtful. There's a lot of fermented soybean foods out there. < 1290929053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, miso. < 1290929061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nattopharma.com/ actually norwegian company < 1290929083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You grind the soybeans and mix it with a few other things *before* fermenting to get miso. < 1290929089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it makes a delicious broth. < 1290929109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, combined with dashi. < 1290929138 0 :TLUL_!~TLUL@wikia/The-last-username-left JOIN :#esoteric < 1290929172 0 :TLUL_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :TLUL < 1290929674 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Is miso soup just miso and water? < 1290929682 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: No. < 1290929686 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, I mean just the broth :P < 1290929691 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously there are solids in there too :P < 1290929697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It's miso and dashi. < 1290929708 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you even said that. Huzzah! < 1290929726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just miso and water" is kind of .. non-trivial < 1290929733 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since miso is not "just" any one thing < 1290929756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats like asking if ramen is "just" ramen powder, noodles, and water < 1290929763 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if cake is "just" cake batter thats been baked < 1290929792 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if cake is "just" flour and water. < 1290929793 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Congratulations, you've declared that "just" shall never be used. < 1290929798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(what with the claim being wrong. :P) < 1290929815 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be, but the issue is that its vacuous here < 1290929848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that *is* the recipe for hardtack. < 1290929850 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: What with mud being /just/ a complex assortment of organic and inorganic molecules some of which are dissolved into and others of which are suspended in water. < 1290929891 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, its just miso and water, but miso is everything in the soup that isnt water, basically. dashi is just a kelp-and-tuna broth < 1290929904 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: thats my point tho, right < 1290929908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: WRONG. < 1290929916 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wikipedia disagrees. < 1290929925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: There's more to typical miso soup than just the miso paste. < 1290929937 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, theres also dashi, ok. < 1290929942 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does a jig.
< 1290929950 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i said, dashi is kelp and tuna broth < 1290929953 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you please fight over something CSey instead? At least I have some chance of comprehending < 1290929955 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe you throw in so tofu too < 1290929960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if not much < 1290929967 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hey, i tried to bring up Reader monads < 1290929970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can throw in a variety of ingredients. < 1290929972 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont blame me if it aint there < 1290930024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The miso paste is just the characteristic ingredient of miso soup. :) < 1290930060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miso and dashi are really all you need for miso soup < 1290930078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y'know what people? Curry chicken is JUST chicken and curry powder. SUCK IT. < 1290930089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well thats false < 1290930096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By that same notion water and flour are really all you need for bread. < 1290930108 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: depends on the kind of bread. < 1290930117 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Depends on the kind of curry chicken :P < 1290930125 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290930138 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: no, it doesnt. curry chicken needs at least some sort of liquid. < 1290930142 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my curry chicken is just chicken patted down with curry powder. < 1290930156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Water and flour suffices for getting something that counts as bread, just like miso and dashi suffices for getting something that counts as miso soup. < 1290930162 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: then thats not curry chicken. < 1290930167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Curry chicken ≠ chicken curry. < 1290930180 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does = chicken curry < 1290930186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Curry chicken is chicken with a curry flavor, not a curry made with chicken. < 1290930193 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Also, if that's not curry chicken, then flour+water is definitely not bread. < 1290930194 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not < 1290930201 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know because im a linguist! < 1290930222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stand back! I'm a LINGUIST!" < 1290930224 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290930233 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: nope sorry. lots of breads are made from just flour and water < 1290930237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistics has little to do with cuisine. < 1290930238 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is recognized as being a kind of bread < 1290930243 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My father is a linguist (in the has-a-linguistics-degree sense). The most important lesson he ever taught me is not to be a linguist. < 1290930249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Uh, *just* flour and water? < 1290930255 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but coating chicken with curry powder is not recognized by anyone except you as curry chicken < 1290930257 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1290930260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: The only such bread I know of is hardtack. < 1290930281 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you do that, you get insanely hard bread. < 1290930289 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of unleavened bread is like this < 1290930291 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you fry it. < 1290930307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indian bread is often just water and flour < 1290930330 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats not to say it doesnt get /better/ with some other stuff < 1290930334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, sure enough. < 1290930359 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figured they'd have something to make it not so hard in there. < 1290930378 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you gotta cook it right < 1290930378 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it's just more water in the mix, so they get a bit more steam leavening. < 1290930412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the tandoori. exposing it to fire does different things that normal ovens < 1290930454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus we've proven that linguistics DOES have something to do with cuisine < 1290930454 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290930460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways, I'm pretty sure that curry chicken is curry-adj. chicken-noun. < 1290930476 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because this is Not. Fucking. French. < 1290930486 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in spite of what fixed phrases would tell you) < 1290930496 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a noun-noun compound < 1290930515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even so, that doesnt change anything < 1290930517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ordering of which, I'm fairly certain, matters. < 1290930544 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Brown Cow is a rootbeer float made with chocolate icecream < 1290930548 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its still adj-noun < 1290930554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-compositionality, bitches < 1290930557 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get used to it < 1290930580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still parsing as chicken which is curry, not curry with chicken. < 1290930591 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1290930599 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chicken that-is-curried means cooked in curry < 1290930610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That is, chicken with a curry flavor. < 1290930625 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the most people. < 1290930644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: where are you again? < 1290930647 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :britland? < 1290930651 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US. < 1290930651 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues to read but not participate in this conversation while munching on curry potato chips.
< 1290930653 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well < 1290930665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Which are clearly not curry made with potato chips. < 1290930666 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to an indian restaurant with lots of white people < 1290930680 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That would be pretty gross! < 1290930681 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask them if curry chicken can be just chicken coated with curry then fried < 1290930687 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet you the answer will be no. < 1290930712 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: That's conflating meaning with preferences. < 1290930718 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not < 1290930730 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"curry chicken" is simply non-compositional < 1290930734 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: If you ask them that, they'll say no because it offends their sensibilities, not because it wouldn't be classified as "curry chicken" < 1290930736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means the same thing as chicken curry < 1290930743 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: prove it < 1290930749 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1290930754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're asserting it. < 1290930756 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're wrong < 1290930761 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think you're right, show me. < 1290930762 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really couldn't care less what your opinion is, or really about this conversation at all *shrugs* < 1290930762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" My father is a linguist (in the has-a-linguistics-degree sense). The most important lesson he ever taught me is not to be a linguist." <<< same with my father and philosophy < 1290930784 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your fathers are lame. < 1290930789 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, your dads a linguist, huh < 1290930792 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who where < 1290930821 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in the has-a-linguistics-degree sense" < 1290930821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++/CLI has a USE? < 1290930824 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dies inside
< 1290930832 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His masters in linguistics does little good to his accounting job. < 1290930837 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1290930839 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/to/for/ < 1290930841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hes not a linguist < 1290930845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Reddit, people are talking about tying together managed and unmanaged code < 1290930846 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes an accountant who couldnt hack linguistics < 1290930848 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hence the parenthetical. < 1290930852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. want. to. die. < 1290930856 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has a degree, he hacked it that much. < 1290930862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He couldn't hack a job in it :P < 1290930868 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did he do < 1290930919 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK he got a linguistics degree because linguistics interested him but with no real ambition, then he went "wait I don't actually want to be a professor" and (after getting a masters in a field he couldn't use) became an accountant. < 1290930936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but what did he do when he was getting his degree < 1290930945 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea, you'd have to ask him *shrugs* < 1290930957 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/eco8t/when_programming_ccli_this_is_all_that_keeps_me/c174b92 < 1290931012 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION euthanizes Sgeo with the saucepan ===\__/
< 1290931015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he thought being an accountant would be more fun than being a professor? < 1290931040 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Again, you'd have to ask him :P < 1290931065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just assume he is insane < 1290931071 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1290931085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no other explanation exists < 1290931092 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it fits well with my backstory if I ever want to be a Jewish comedian. < 1290931109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are u jeqish < 1290931141 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm part-Ashkenazi, and nobody cares whether you're religiously Jewish for you to be a Jewish comedian anyway :P < 1290931160 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to both be religiously Jewish and a Jewish comedian? < 1290931165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought jews are like the OPPOSITE of nazis < 1290931167 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I have to do is stand in profile (and maybe hide my hyper-anglo hair) and anybody will be convinced I'm Jewish :P < 1290931173 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought ardent atheism was a prerequisite for being a jewish comedian < 1290931179 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Mmmmm ... yeah, I think so. < 1290931186 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PROFILE PICS NAO < 1290931199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1290931200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1290931212 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have one, but I think I have a picture sufficiently revealing of the relevant characteristic. < 1290931213 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that like a pun, ask-a-nazi < 1290931221 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=30473177&l=32c78c515d&id=1055580469 < 1290931226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can use that in your act < 1290931230 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Ashkenazi is a race. < 1290931242 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o right < 1290931247 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why people just say they're Jewish :P < 1290931263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, you could be german-hungarian too < 1290931277 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you look a bit like one of my relatives who's german-hungarian < 1290931304 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Most Ashkenazis would have such traits... < 1290931309 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1290931313 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wouldnt doubt it. < 1290931335 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with spreading from Germany to Eastern Europe. < 1290931339 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including Hungary. < 1290931346 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I was about to say that German-Hungarian could very well be Ashkenazi :P < 1290931376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you don't really resemble anything i've ever seen, ever < 1290931390 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywho, it's all very silly, really I wouldn't care one lick about racial heritage except that the Jewish side of my family does X-D < 1290931424 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290931434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Ashkenazi < 1290931439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus Brit < 1290931440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose. < 1290931450 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ding ding ding :P < 1290931480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been to britland, but i don't know where ashkenazistan is < 1290931496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They moved it to Israel. < 1290931504 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually of surprisingly few heritages for a person whose family on both sides has been in the US for more than a century. < 1290931508 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: X-D < 1290931514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really believe you can say anything about a person's race just from looking at their face < 1290931543 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: "I suspect by the color of that person's skin that they're of a European or Slavic race." < 1290931550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right color < 1290931554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i partially believe < 1290931559 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Races are defined by physical characteristic, deal with it *shrugs* < 1290931560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm of surprisingly specifically-general heritage set. < 1290931562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's very hard to ignore < 1290931566 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just about every Germanic heritage.] < 1290931572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like your nose < 1290931584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...which i still don't believe proves anything < 1290931638 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290931680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Races are defined by physical characteristic, deal with it *shrugs*" <<< i just don't believe humans have the ability to infer things from these characteristics, because i'm not good at it myself < 1290931703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm not good at it, the world should stop talking about it < 1290931710 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people are, otherwise you just get stereotypes that happen to be true sometimes :P < 1290931722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this is why the world should stop talking about physical activities. < 1290931731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1290931744 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should transcend beyond these physical shackles of bodies and exist as beings of pure energy. < 1290931748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not particularly bad at those i guess, but they are rather uninteresting < 1290931758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: yes! < 1290931777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when's the first mass suicide meeting of #esoteric < 1290931866 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohhh, you missed it. < 1290931873 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest of us are IRCing from the Next Level. < 1290931878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1290931880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit! < 1290931903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and somewhere, a bunch of pure energy beings are saying, "fuck this boring mental enlightenment stuff, let's make ourselves some bodies!" < 1290931960 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, you, other energy being in this endless void ... wanna fuck?" "I can't. I have no body." "... shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit." < 1290931994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you like mindfuck each other < 1290931997 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wanna cyber?" < 1290932000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1290932015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could look at humans have sex and mentalbate < 1290932036 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorta not the same though, innit X-P < 1290932042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting hungry -> < 1290932310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should sleep. < 1290932525 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290932624 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290932641 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why am I a pope? < 1290932872 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should i know, Mr. Ratzinger? < 1290933209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: because some cardinals got together in a room and voted. < 1290933725 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290933821 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290934208 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-39-3.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290934342 0 :Sasha!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1290934438 0 :TLUL!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: *disappears in a puff of orange smoke* < 1290934671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290934709 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@xdsl-83-150-123-242.nebulazone.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1290934848 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was the most useless Windows Update... < 1290934869 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malware Removal thingy (not that useless I guess) and Live updates < 1290934925 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290935021 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290935675 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290936124 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290936221 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290936265 0 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@cpc3-sgyl21-0-0-cust116.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290936645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, snow. < 1290936659 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In late November, too. < 1290936713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lotsa snow here too < 1290936728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snow: check < 1290936751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really see outside < 1290936767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually i can see that there's snow even through the curtains < 1290937026 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290937325 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290937421 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290937432 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.wellnowwhat.net/blog/?p=434 < 1290937438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan too < 1290938229 0 :MigoMipo_!~John@84-217-6-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938294 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1290938295 0 :yiyus__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1290938345 0 :Wamanuz2!~Wamanuz@78-69-168-43-no84.tbcn.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938346 0 :wareya_!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938402 0 :yiyus_!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938490 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oerjan, ah, but you both live in the frigid northlands. < 1290938525 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290938526 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile I live in Edinburgh, which has the most boring climate in Britain. < 1290938530 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1290938531 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1290938531 0 :augur!~augur@c-71-196-120-234.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938538 0 :Wamanuz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290938539 0 :jix_!~jix@188.40.47.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938552 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290938563 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1290938574 0 :MigoMipo!~John@84-217-6-134.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now it seems to have switched to heavy hail. < 1290938624 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLEARLY THE WEATHER TOOK YOUR COMMENT AS A CHALLENGE < 1290938655 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290938660 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPECT YOUR ROOF TO CAVE IN SOON < 1290938682 0 :jix!~jix@tomakin.h-ix.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938881 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :*.net *.split < 1290938932 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-qranhkwymjbtaxic JOIN :#esoteric < 1290938973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there it is again, that strange desire to quote shakespeare < 1290939429 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, now my breath is fogging indoors. < 1290939550 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, very cold? < 1290939567 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, turn on the radiators then? < 1290939587 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radiators are decadent and capitalist! < 1290939599 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, any fireplace? < 1290939610 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also decadent and capitalist! < 1290939624 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1290939633 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, why? < 1290939645 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because! < 1290939724 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290939825 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290940096 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290942997 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I am going to make a stand! < 1290943014 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard Minecraft textures for glass are terrible and I want better ones! < 1290943087 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1290944033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they too decadent and capitalist < 1290944156 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, a stand in what sense? < 1290944164 0 :FireFly!~firefly@unaffiliated/firefly JOIN :#esoteric < 1290944169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a concession stand, obviously < 1290944187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made of glass < 1290944191 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1290945190 0 :cheater99!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290946427 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no, they have some pixels stuck in the middle that completely ruins the view. < 1290946445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1290946452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd like it to be invisible? < 1290946462 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or have only frames. < 1290946471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1290946535 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The current texture is particularly jarring as I have a room with 3 walls and the floor made entirely of glass, and it just looks messy by default. < 1290946742 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: ilua < 1290946802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That Painterly texpack has quite a few glass alternatives: http://painterlypack.net/materials.html < 1290946825 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, that is what I am using. < 1290948582 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-qranhkwymjbtaxic JOIN :#esoteric < 1290948763 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to assume that Fine Structure either isn't finished or that it ends rather abruptly. < 1290949199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :中华人民共和国 (testing) < 1290949270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm was afraid of that < 1290949429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putty apparently allows choosing only _one_ font name globally, which means it is impossible to support even all the characters i _do_ have some font for < 1290949504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangul, chinese and japanese seem to only be available in separate fonts, say < 1290949536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*support simultaneously < 1290949580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it might be a mess to support when it wants characters to be the same fixed size, anyway < 1290949628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and that kannada thing from yesterday i have no monospace font for, so putty cannot show it at all. < 1290950741 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to work out what the hell was going on in the last chapter.
< 1290951523 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290951845 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290952550 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-okqwxwiroccxkjbb JOIN :#esoteric < 1290955415 0 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1290955577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:05:32 is sprunge.us suitable for linking to from the wiki? < 1290955579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1290955582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:05:54 oerjan: Pretty sure they recycle pastes. < 1290955584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I know of. < 1290955589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then < 1290955650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:08 However, CthulhuIRCd logs exactly what is sent to every client on the channel, with a timestamp. (Hence the rule in SIRCL requiring line-endings to be CRLF even on UNIX) < 1290955651 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:28 Creepy < 1290955652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1290955656 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:37 It is the requirement of SIRCL that the logs are logged in that way. < 1290955657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12:58 Remind me not to give you my password in SIRCL < 1290955659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what??? < 1290955690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15:59 You mean I shouldn't tell you that when I was younger < 1290955690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:00 I < 1290955691 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:16:01 --- quit: Sgeo (Quit: Leaving) < 1290955693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a wise decision < 1290955752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:05:42 of course that might not be considered a convincing argument by most foreigners (see: lutefisk) < 1290955756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: don't say that word! < 1290955797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lutefisk lutefisk lutefisk < 1290955803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, mmm) < 1290955850 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you horrible person < 1290955984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION _likes_ lutefisk (http://www.airshipentertainment.com/mythcomic.php?date=20100928)
< 1290956028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i was about to chastise cpressey for linking directly to his homepage on his userpage without using the template, but he DID use the template < 1290956091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no you don't, you've just gone into shock every time you've eaten it < 1290956099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your body has made you think you like it as a self-defence mechanism < 1290956119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_could_ be < 1290956140 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290956312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION recommends reading the menu in that comic
< 1290956346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait didn't notice pikhq was online < 1290956350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i memoserv'd him :P < 1290956556 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would be very easy to implement slashes in a language like slashes but with regexps :D < 1290956576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"very easy" but still < 1290956577 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easi-ER < 1290956620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1290956829 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My son (5) tried to pinch-zoom a photo on my wife's laptop. She explained scrollbars and + and - buttons. He left." --seen randomly on twitter < 1290956974 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290957070 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290958174 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290958255 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION designs the only font less than a pixel wide!
< 1290958259 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290958296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this font would be the standard output format for Turkey Bomb, i assume < 1290958375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed so < 1290958393 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: (it's actually 2 wide by 3 high, it's just that you can pack 3 subpixels (uglily) into one pixel on an LCD) < 1290958409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so each character takes up 2/3 of a pixel... of course you'll want at least one bit of space, so a character+space takes up 3 pixel < 1290958423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: if you want 2 spaces, that's even more fun because the alignment of the pixels changes each character < 1290958439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://distractionware.com/blog/?p=193 :P < 1290958448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's 3-wide and 5-high < 1290958455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when expanded from subpixels to pixels) < 1290958477 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realises suddenly that he didn't read most of "Last Ergs" and hence was utterly confused for the last chapter.
< 1290958544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Ha ha! (No spoilers I haven't read nearly that far.) < 1290958560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Now you get to read http://qntm.org/ed. < 1290958564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth did I manage to do that... < 1290958594 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not as if I could have clicked accidentally or anything, or skipped over it, and I read the first subsection. < 1290958641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats elliott for rickrolling him -----###
< 1290958651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the principle of it < 1290958697 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You were abducted during that time. < 1290958806 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps I befell the < 1290958826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just don't. < 1290958833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really want to enjoy what I have left to read of it. < 1290958834 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't. < 1290958840 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you right now? < 1290958905 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-11837939 < 1290958907 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :picture is so. perfect. < 1290958918 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I reached the end of The Story So Far. My reading has taken... a hiatus. < 1290958989 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, oh, the insanity of trademark law. < 1290959011 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In this case it's not *overly* insane since it'd only apply to social networky things. But yes, the claim should be denied. < 1290959021 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trademark law is the sanest and probably the only justifiable such law. :p < 1290959056 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: patent law makes 100% sense in some sectors < 1290959065 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's overstepped its bounds though < 1290959119 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290959142 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: you know we disagree, so why bother presenting your opposing opinion, which i already know, as fact? < 1290959150 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1290959157 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: because the economic analysis < 1290959168 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has been done < 1290959172 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many times < 1290959189 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: also note that i said "probably" the only, not "the only". < 1290959200 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noted < 1290959207 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know fine well simply saying "No, you're wrong, [my opinion again]!" won't do a single thing, so why take the effort? < 1290959257 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I know more about microeconomics now < 1290959423 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but you're still not presenting me with anything new and it's moer irritating than anything else < 1290959473 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290959497 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also just enjoy pissing you off < 1290959769 0 :zasada!~zasada@77.121.167.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290959895 0 :zasada!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :всем привет < 1290959954 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zasada: bcem npnbet < 1290959967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ah, the good old hate-hate relationship < 1290960183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the adverts for Windows Phone 7 are actually really good < 1290960194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really tempt me to want to buy a smartphone, though, especially not one running Microsoft software < 1290960211 0 :zasada!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1290960228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, anyone here who uses Windows? What should I do on a system whose anti-virus software needs upgrading, but where Firefox seems incapable of downloading executables from the Internet? < 1290960251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, first try with any file, it aborts, second try, the progress bar goes up to 100% and it reports the download as having worked, but the file isn't saved anywhere?) < 1290960405 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1290960409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1290960451 0 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290960574 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290960673 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290960745 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290960759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, the adverts for Windows Phone 7 are actually really good < 1290960761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, really? < 1290960776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one i saw was social networking-oriented, and I doubt *that* is your thing < 1290960784 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hmm, anyone here who uses Windows? What should I do on a system whose anti-virus software needs upgrading, but where Firefox seems incapable of downloading executables from the Internet? < 1290960786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, try IE? < 1290960840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carefully aiming IE only at sites knowng to be correct < 1290960847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, might work < 1290960855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you do realise that modern IE isn't really insecure? < 1290960872 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd have to try fairly hard to get infected with it, especially if you have any antivirus (even an old one) < 1290960889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's just that it's hard enough to teach people "never use IE" < 1290960896 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what AV is it, anyway? < 1290960897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm more concerned about why Firefox is failing to download executables < 1290960905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AVG, up-to-date virus database, but not engine < 1290960910 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, AVG < 1290960913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the engine's almost going to not get new databases, it's so old < 1290960927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm entirely willing to install a different one, though, given how annoying AVG's been getting < 1290960949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've heard good things about avast!, but I seem to recall its sound-effects when it finds a virus are pretty scary :) < 1290960966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NOD32 is the best antivirus by far but it's only a trial and after that you either have to infringe on copyright or pay, so yeah. < 1290960996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, there's also been a lot of good things said about http://www.cloudantivirus.com/en/ and it may well be good apart from cashing in on the "cloud" terminology < 1290961005 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's very out-of-the-way < 1290961025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches their video, gets rapidly irritated
< 1290961039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about just MSE, on the basis that it's less irritating than many of the others < 1290961046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know of a strong reason not to use it? < 1290961075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when I last used MSE it wasn't being hyped up yet, just sort of a first release < 1290961079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably decent enough, yes < 1290961098 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why are you using windows, btw? < 1290961100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's never really been hyped up, but I can't find people with bad things to say about it, which is very out-of-character for Microsoft software < 1290961105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not, this is someone else's computer < 1290961142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're panicking due to the virus database updates going to stop soon, and no obvious way to update the AV < 1290961202 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, panda cloud antivirus's advert tries to describe how it works; obviously simplified, but the simplified version is, at least, *really* stupid < 1290961216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("it learns about viruses from your web browsing in the GLOBAL INTERNET COMMUNITY! no need for a virus lab!") < 1290961317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, round about now you have to stop me doing what i'm doing < 1290961395 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please? :p < 1290961423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ARE DOOMED < 1290961514 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i should never have entered this rabbit hole < 1290961586 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, is AVG the one noted for confusing the Windows system files for viruses? < 1290961694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: dunno; it's noted for being so mediocre it's bad in my book < 1290961774 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290961857 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems like there might actually be decent experimental evidence for precognition; oh joy, look at that worldview go < 1290961873 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290961928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um is that about those recent Bem experiments (which i thought were pretty swiftly discredited) < 1290961982 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there's a new version of Golly! < 1290961988 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUST GET < 1290962025 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically Bem doesn't seem to understand/care that you have to form the hypothesis to test _before_ doing the actual experiment to test it < 1290962044 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, it is; the article is too old to mention that it was discredited < 1290962089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I still think retropsychokinesis is pretty likely (although probably not p>=0.5) due to the results of http://www.fourmilab.ch/rpkp/ < 1290962150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually < 1290962160 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks the updates to see if he did find it to be statistically significant after all
< 1290962235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, a recent article by James Spottiswoode in the Journal of Scientific Exploration suggests that anomalous cognition events occur with an enhanced probability at times close to 13:30 hours Local Sidereal Time." < 1290962236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1290962273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw that mentioned in the recent reddit threads about Bem's experiment < 1290962315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that quote, or the retropsychokinesis project? < 1290962337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sidereal time connection < 1290962339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really believe at all in non-retropsychokinetic precognition, since it's really that causality doesn't seem so solid to me :) < 1290962559 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290962703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, wait, the results you got yourself? < 1290962725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, the results of the project in total < 1290962734 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were they? < 1290962816 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: see the link < 1290962821 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba to read them :P < 1290962844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fourmilab is an awesome site btw, john walker of autocad fame < 1290962904 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@CPE001b115db0ae-CM0018c0c24ffc.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290963290 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you were right, ElliottOS just got redesigned < 1290963296 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better now though! < 1290963333 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, redesigned how? (just major points, I don't have time for half an hour of discussion) < 1290963337 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: guess what just became even further away from completion? :P < 1290963353 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be @, by any chance? < 1290963363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: well, really it was more like I was holding two separate design paths for an OS in my head, and I'd selected a Lispy, impure one as ElliottOS because the other one sounded like A Scary Pain. < 1290963391 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the other one? < 1290963405 0 :Leonidas_!~Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1290963409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Now I'm reading the Synthesis paper, thought "hmm, yeah, specialisation could actually work", read up on the Futamura projections, read up on lazy specialisation, and then read (I've seen it before, but re-read) how lazy specialisation lets you implement pure Functional Reactive Programming without the infamous space leak < 1290963422 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now suddenly the OS is purely functional, specialiser-based, and sits on FRP. < 1290963443 0 :Leonidas_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Leonidas < 1290963479 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, FRP? < 1290963525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: The Holy Grail. The IO monad, although it sits in a pure language, is impure; it has effects, and state; IO operations are not composable units obeying mathematical laws like pure, denotational functions are. < 1290963553 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Functional reactive programming drags the rest of the universe into the opalescent pool of purity. < 1290963559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_reactive_programming < 1290963573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's pretty similar to event-based systems, except easier to use, and purely functional. < 1290963574 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds impressive. *bookmarks for future reading* < 1290963576 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is very nice. < 1290963587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, the reading is mostly papers, and a lot of them have ideas that their authors now consider seriously out of date :-) < 1290963602 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://conal.net/blog/ and http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/ are worth reading for "the latest thing", most likely. < 1290963609 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290963610 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conal's especially. < 1290963740 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically "there are implementations of FRP that work, but they're not *general* to all uses of FRP; general implementations tend to have serious problems like space leaks. It is not clear why it is easy to implement one use of FRP, but difficult to implement it in general." -- so obviously the reading material is a bit tangled < 1290963771 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: sort of like physics; there are plenty of theories that work in their domain -- quantum mechanics, relativity -- but for some reason it's very hard to make something that puts it all together < 1290963797 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1290963803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but, guess what, lazy specialisation seems to actually solve the problem and allow a very simple, general FRP implementation without space leaks. :) Of course, the problem is implementing the lazy specialiser. < 1290963805 0 :yorick!~yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-hxmvkivqjceewpom JOIN :#esoteric < 1290963834 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last section of http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/ shows specialisation making FRP work < 1290963848 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I really don't have time to read lot of stuff atm < 1290963851 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, bbl < 1290963856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: just linkdumping < 1290963941 0 :augur!~augur@74.174.236.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290963944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/#comment-863 is especially interesting; augustss doing specialisation for work in Actual Practice, specialising to LLVM < 1290963982 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course a useful specialiser-based system requires runtime code generation, and it just so happens that it all neatly fits together if you do it as an OS :) < 1290964202 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and your weird OS talk. < 1290964219 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Says Mr. Lisp86. < 1290964223 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Lazy specialisation". What is this? < 1290964229 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Complicated. < 1290964274 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A specialiser is a piece of code in language A that takes a function written in language B, and a value written in language B, and outputs a program in language C that acts like the function written in language B, except with one less argument. < 1290964293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could say that it compiles (f x), but in fact it *rewrites* f's code so that all mentions of x are eliminated, replaced with the argument, and then the resulting program is simplified and optimised. < 1290964299 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy specialisation is that, except lazy. < 1290964315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: This is a lovely, accessible introduction to specialisers, and why they're so awesome: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2009/05/three-projections-of-doctor-futamura.html < 1290964321 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Read it. Read it now. :p < 1290964333 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep parsing "Futamura" as "Futurama". < 1290964338 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can set A=B=C if you want and all that. < 1290964341 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the languages) < 1290964344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You and everyone else. < 1290964494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Oh, and all of this is proof that the esoteric will inherit the earth; if you squint a bit, running specialisers on themselves is an awful lot like writing a quine. < 1290964533 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those fools in the practical computing world laughed at us! But we shall show them all! < 1290964587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes! Now keep reading. < 1290964593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwahaha rabbit hole < 1290964772 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs away from the rabbitt.
< 1290964776 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rabbit < 1290964832 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: No! Keep reading! YOU MUST < 1290964847 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've read the whole article already, silly. < 1290964859 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm trying to stop myself from reading the book. < 1290964894 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290964919 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: And now *lazy* specialisation: http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/ < 1290964930 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nooooooo < 1290964959 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: By the way, PyPy, the Python implementation in Python, strays very close to specialisation; they automatically generate their JIT from their interpreter. < 1290964971 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mhm. < 1290964973 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In fact, they have code that transforms any interpreter written in their restricted variant of Python, RPython, into a JIT, IIRC. < 1290964978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the JITs perform well. < 1290964992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[The interpreter implements the full Python language in a restricted subset, called RPython (Restricted Python). Unlike standard Python, RPython is statically typed, to allow efficient compilation.[2] < 1290964993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The translator is a tool chain that analyzes RPython code and translates it to a lower-level language, such as C, Java bytecode or Common Intermediate Language. It also allows for pluggable Garbage collectors as well as optionally enabling Stackless. Finally it includes a JIT generator which builds a just-in-time compiler into the interpreter, given a few annotations in the interpreter source code. The generated JIT compiler is a tracing JIT[3].]] < 1290964995 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A JIT compiler or code? < 1290965002 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: ? See above. < 1290965019 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1290965032 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So, basically, the PyPy people decided not to bother writing a fast Python compiler of any sort. < 1290965075 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: They just decided to define a restricted variant of Python, RPython, write a translator from RPython to (various low-level languages), and then write a translator from a lightly-annotated interpreter of a language written in RPython, to a JIT compiler for that language. < 1290965091 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then they implemented a Python interpreter in RPython, and applied the JIT-maker to it. < 1290965099 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very, very close to specialisation. < 1290965117 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Anyway, read http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/07/07/emphasizing-specialization/ and you'll NEVER WRITE A COMPILER AGAIN EVER even if you never have. < 1290965196 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey :) < 1290965196 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290965219 0 :Goosey!~goose124@99-60-156-25.lightspeed.elpstx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290965256 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up? < 1290965300 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: insanity! < 1290965313 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Again? < 1290965322 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1290965329 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I'm trying to devise an insane esolang. < 1290965337 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something based off of brainfuck < 1290965354 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe each element is actually a stack :P < 1290965359 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want it to be useful < 1290965364 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*more* < 1290965368 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without making it easier < 1290965379 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Protip: "brainfuck derivative" and "useful", as two goals, produce 99% of the stuff on the wiki. < 1290965385 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wiki is a ... deluge of mostly uninteresting languages. < 1290965391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest relaxing one of the goals :P < 1290965393 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol < 1290965406 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought that might be the case :P < 1290965432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: I suggest relaxing the "useful" goal, who needs that :) < 1290965438 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1290965441 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolangs are for fun < 1290965454 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not usefulness! ;P < 1290965458 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People who bloat *Brainfuck* confuse me to no end. < 1290965473 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively < 1290965493 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy idea: an interpreter.... for MATHEMATICS. < 1290965505 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: wat. < 1290965506 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make the pointers be able to move based on what's in the current element < 1290965515 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phantom, they already have that :/ < 1290965518 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I said it was crazy. < 1290965526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: they do? < 1290965529 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, proof-checkers? No, they don't count. < 1290965534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he probably means mathematica < 1290965540 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1290965547 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: what then? < 1290965564 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would have the GUT embedded in it, and stuff would be interpreted by operating on that within a wider context. < 1290965573 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1290965581 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as extended as I guess you want :/ < 1290965591 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: what were you thinking of, though? < 1290965598 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cadabra is one < 1290965612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it's a CAS. < 1290965621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be field-theory oriented. < 1290965630 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you odnt want scilab then xD < 1290965651 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Field theory is proper mathematics. Look at all of the Greek letters! < 1290965671 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I have this mathomatic thing < 1290965678 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculates polynomials and other stuff < 1290965678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/pj.html, http://www.math.rutgers.edu/~zeilberg/GT.html < 1290965695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: most of the proofs in the former are generated with Maple programs, the entire latter book was generated with a Maple program searching for geometric proofs (source is available) < 1290965695 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact: the ratio of Latin to other symbols determines how proper a given piece of mathematics is. < 1290965698 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not quite what you want, but COOL. < 1290965730 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zeilberger is the ultra-ultra-ultrafinitist, yes? < 1290965764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, but don't let that bother you; those two pages are really awesome. < 1290965788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: "Shalosh B. Ekhad" is what he calls the author of his program-written stuff. < 1290965790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's his computer.) < 1290965835 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if Coq can even /handle/ ZFC.
< 1290965852 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't on some levels, since it hates general recursion. < 1290965875 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Yes, it can. < 1290965879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure what you think general recursion has to do with it. < 1290965887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: A model of ZFC comes with Coq. < 1290965911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: http://coq.inria.fr/V8.2pl1/contribs/ZFC.html < 1290965911 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a munged thought squeezed through my brain into unrecognisability. < 1290965932 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gyaah, I hate multi-file Coq libraries. < 1290965938 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never know where to start. < 1290965960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Axioms is probably a good place. < 1290965966 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that extends to multi-file /anythings/ < 1290965972 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I shouldn't think so. < 1290965976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: Just click a random file, then click on its includes until you get to a file without includes. < 1290965979 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: In this case, that's http://coq.inria.fr/V8.2pl1/contribs/ZFC.Sets.html. < 1290965981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then go out from there. < 1290965996 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks. < 1290966079 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION remembers the pain of wrestling with LTac...
< 1290966089 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem tout_vide_est_Vide : < 1290966093 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL FRENCH < 1290966108 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As well as the weirdness of seeing normal functions defined using it < 1290966258 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urgh, Cadabra is written in C++. < 1290966267 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We won't be having any of that, now. < 1290966288 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[simple induction 1]] < 1290966298 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's simple induction??? < 1290966318 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "1" a reference to the first argument? < 1290966330 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to reduce his confusion with ProofGeneral steppery.
< 1290966558 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO MANY TACTICS < 1290966618 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO LITTLE TIME < 1290966680 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290966722 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290966905 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290966907 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 2 kill < 1290967139 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1290967245 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any question/opinion about that manual page? Or, what is it? < 1290967292 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I've invented a vaguely horrible thing. < 1290967306 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: What did you invent? < 1290967311 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how vague is it? < 1290967325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Meansort and mediansort, and it's not vague at all, just vaguely horrible. < 1290967348 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I meant, how vague is it horrible? < 1290967357 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can you show what you have? < 1290967433 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1290967448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/fJJC Replace the calls with mean with calls to median to get another kind of sort. < 1290967453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mediansort is probably faster. < 1290967457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact it is, objectively. < 1290967530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha! it doesn't sort properly < 1290967531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Median doesn't compute the median < 1290967542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: INDEED sir < 1290967558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in fact median is completely unworkable in this case since it requires sorting the list to do it simply :D < 1290967567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok let's pretend median isn't there < 1290967573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still doesn't work < 1290967574 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooo < 1290967587 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65150, 87, 6319, 15206, 26202, 52131, 17404, 59691, 54273, 61926, 63389, 3098, 6615, 25222, 60300, 1027, 26110, 33019, 51582, 62569, 13940, 24634, 51787, 54117, 55077, < 1290967588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pathetic < 1290967593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1290967594 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return msort(a) + msort(b) < 1290967595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolz stupid < 1290967616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursing msort() around that breaks python's recursion limit :) < 1290967632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python avgsort.py < 1290967632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1290967633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1290967637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok raising that limit is not a good idea < 1290967657 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not seem the best kind of sorting algorithm, there are a few problems with its ways. < 1290967659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much for Python < 1290967666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: C implementations welcome :p < 1290967708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those the only two options? < 1290967713 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think in C it could be done better, but it is still unsure if it is better than anything else and if so in what ways, what data? < 1290967721 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, you can do it in haskell too. < 1290967747 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i had an infinite loop < 1290967748 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1290967752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well infinite recursion < 1290967753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, you can make the C program to calculate the mean while partitioning. < 1290967757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i give up on this thing :) < 1290967769 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or just the sum; the mean is not needed.) < 1290967813 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1290967871 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the code looks like it will work badly if the length of the list is not a power of two. < 1290967978 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I cannot know for sure. < 1290968395 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I just remembered that you asked me to remind you of something < 1290968403 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(been too busy to remember it before) < 1290968418 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: what was it < 1290968427 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, "mine from torch marked cave" iirc < 1290968438 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: already done :P < 1290968452 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1290968457 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, ah < 1290968927 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@69.172.108.252 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290968960 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I removed the license exception now, and made a few other changes. http://sprunge.us/fHTJ < 1290969048 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would also like you to tell me if you think there is anything wrong with the ANSI emulation in the anstomzm.w program. < 1290969367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Quit: Good night < 1290969394 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, it must be a different timezone, I think!! < 1290969519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7:38 pm there apparently < 1290969523 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he is on a 25 hour day < 1290969592 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is 25 hours? Does it have anything to do with daylight saving time? < 1290969619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If you want a Haskell version of your non-working sort http://sprunge.us/ggef < 1290969643 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: No, it's oerjan's fucked up sleep schedule < 1290969659 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think you win the Most Involved Way of Implementing a Broken Sort Algorithm of the Year. < 1290969662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :award. < 1290969679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that < 1290969694 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: And you can win the Broken Sort award, then? < 1290969735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the longest day of the year, when we have to switch off daylight saving time? < 1290969736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Wasting vectors on that :P < 1290969777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Too painful to see something like partition running on linked lists :-P < 1290969783 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the real question is to figure out some actual purpose of this algorithm (or a variation), other than sorting! < 1290969801 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scrambling! < 1290969805 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite bad at that too. < 1290969825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think so! < 1290969924 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is bad at that, too! < 1290970439 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x87? < 1290970444 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the hell is that.. < 1290970484 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: The floating point coprocessor on the x86. < 1290970491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now integrated into the CPU. < 1290970499 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I see < 1290970525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wikileaks leak is out. < 1290970625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Among other things, it reveals that the US embassies form a global espionage network. < 1290970666 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290970678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wow! Automated equational theorem proving for (a subset of) Haskell: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ws506/tryzeno/ -- the future yet nearer < 1290970678 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what embassies are usually for... < 1290970678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1290970693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god this is awesome < 1290970695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ws506/tryzeno/ this this this < 1290970697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: No, they are *not meant for espionage on everybody and everything*. < 1290970728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :D < 1290970735 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That has been my concern always, a bit. < 1290970779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: prop_reverse_idem xs = < 1290970779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : reverse (reverse xs) === xs < 1290970781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And it just proves it. < 1290970795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: :) < 1290970919 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's a conspiracy man, they are.... < 1290970952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: are you aware of the definition of "conspiracy" < 1290970955 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: quick -- who did 9/11? < 1290970961 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aliens < 1290970984 0 :cheater00!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290970985 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fucking with you, I don't buy any of that bullshit. :/ Just so you know.. < 1290970989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: just checking :P < 1290970993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: It's not much of a crazy conspiracy theory if the evidence for it *is coming from leaks of internal communications*. ;) < 1290971005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it could quite possibly be an actual conspiracy. :P < 1290971008 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No! Terrorists did 9/11 attack but after the attack, the government made up a secret conspiracy to do things about it that do not work, because it is a conspiracy for something else! < 1290971031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: They didn't keep it all that secret. They just convinced the public at large that it works. < 1290971033 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: now do you actually believe that < 1290971095 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those plans apparently existed before 9/11 happened, but 9/11 was convient excuse to take them into use... And I wouldn't rule out intentional fsckup (a'la Pearl Harbor)... < 1290971099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is partially because of stupid government agencies, but also because of conspiracy, too. Of course the things they try to do to stop terrorism, mostly is completely wrong and useless and does not even make sense. < 1290971120 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Yes, that. < 1290971187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My anstomzm program has a "jokes" entry in the index. < 1290971192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mogensen gives a very elegant partial evaluator in pure lambda calculus, which optimize as expected with the Futamura projections (see Dan’s post). This partial evaluator works on higher order abstract syntax, taking and returning descriptions of terms rather than the terms themselves. Essentially all it is is (very simple) machinery describing how to evaluate under a lambda." links to http://tinyurl.com/cnyyph, behind paywall < 1290971260 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lukepalmer.wordpress.com/2009/05/04/lazy-partial-evaluation/ in general... < 1290971298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We are currently under a mass distributed denial of service attack." -- Wikileaks. < 1290971362 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: " fib = lub [\0 -> 0, \1 -> 1, \n -> assuming (n >= 2) $ fib (n-1) + fib (n-2) ] -- valid, reasonably efficient #haskell (using Data.Lub)" < 1290971368 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/lub/0.1.6/doc/html/Data-Lub.html < 1290971402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The leak from Wikileaks has gone out via various news organizations because of that DOS. < 1290971415 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DoS? < 1290971418 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1290971425 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: DDoS. < 1290971435 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: why? < 1290971437 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing :P < 1290971454 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways I couldnt get on it either :/ < 1290971540 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is almost time for Hypernet -- no denial of service attacks, no need for unique addresses, and it works even if the government takes away your internet. < 1290971555 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Here is a statement from Hillary Clinton, who ordered a secret intelligence campaign targeting the leadership of the UN, including the secretary general, Ban Ki-moon and the permanent security council representatives from China, Russia, France and the UK." < 1290971562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: And what exactly is hypernet? < 1290971588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Gotta admit, the US has balls. < 1290971665 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have idea, and have think of it much, but do not know exactly. But it must use strong security, non-centralized, hash code, non-physical addressing, and transfer over any medium (including ham radio and barcodes, as well as internet). < 1290971666 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the US is just being ran by idiots < 1290971686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: they're not stupid, they're very competent... and they're not exactly evil, they really believe what they're doing is best. < 1290971689 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're deluded and wrong. < 1290971704 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're naive. < 1290971707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dangerous. < 1290971714 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think the government even knows everything about itself. < 1290971740 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Their actions are certainly not that of idiots, *in general*. < 1290971758 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But rather a bunch of people who believe that the fourth reich is a good idea. < 1290971782 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, the actions are good sometimes, but they are trying to reach a goal which is idiotic in itself.. < 1290971800 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of Obama specifically < 1290971815 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As a hypothetical hacker who might enjoy wikileaks, I may consider the possibility that my attacks on wikileaks would be both obviously ineffective in stopping this release, and simultaneously increase the hype surrounding the release of the information, to its benefit." < 1290971838 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, this is boring, let's talk about computing < 1290971861 0 :cheater00!~cheater@e181142243.adsl.alicedsl.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1290971863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Obama's not significantly different from most of the other Presidents we've had. It honestly feels like that job is about as relevant as student body president at a school. < 1290971898 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Little Green Footballs blogged my Wikileaks tweets" < 1290971909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry Sanger: because getting on Little Green Footballs is an achievement, not shameful. < 1290971944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"El Pais, Le Monde, Speigel, Guardian & NYT will publish many US embassy cables tonight, even if WikiLeaks goes down" < 1290971946 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" @wikileaks unlikely: if legit news sources publish cables not avail. on Wikileaks, they become primary sources & risk repercussions" < 1290971950 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Larry Sanger: I know more than the newsappers! < 1290971956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Guardian tweeted that they would publish them specifically.) < 1290971958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 The Guardian. < 1290971992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's Speigel's cover story for tomorrow. < 1290972017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Likely for the others as well. < 1290972028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ♥ The Guardian. < 1290972029 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Do you know of MegaZeux? I even made some games on MegaZeux. Did you? < 1290972248 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of it.. < 1290972252 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me look it up < 1290972271 0 :yorick!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1290972304 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/mzx_extended/ < 1290972315 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you guys think of an implementation of brainfuck with a 3D array of stacks? < 1290972337 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Write something like that on the wiki, if you like to. < 1290972348 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the compiler or anything yet < 1290972352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it makes a large class of algorithms simpler while still being a tarpit. < 1290972371 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: That is OK; just write the description on the wiki. Add the compiler later < 1290972384 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an interpreter either, but alright..:P < 1290972393 0 :yorick!yorick@gateway/shell/shellium.org/x-qldjavxzqbdmzrgl JOIN :#esoteric < 1290972414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For instance, it makes arrays not a complete pain. < 1290972418 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: That is OK; you can add the interpreter later. Just write the description at first, is OK. < 1290972426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Make it an infinite-D array of infinite-D arrays of infinite-D arrays ... < 1290972426 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay :D < 1290972432 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;/ < 1290972434 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290972435 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many articles on the wiki are for unimplemented things (some of which are unimplementable!) < 1290972444 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: who said i'm joking < 1290972452 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me create an account then :D < 1290972505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One idea I have, is if you have a variant of FlooP (described in Hofstadter's book) with the REDPROGRAM command built-in. < 1290972506 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So shoudl I put it in list of ideas? < 1290972515 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should* < 1290972515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Now *that's* an interesting topological space. < 1290972525 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much more powerful does that make it? < 1290972537 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the only kind of data is addresses < 1290972545 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are, um, let's think < 1290972546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: In the list of ideas? It depends if the description is complete or not. < 1290972557 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a fully-qualified address is an infinite list of an infinite list of naturals < 1290972567 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the description is fully proper, put in the language list and add the "Unimplemented" category. Otherwise, just put your ideas in the list of ideas. < 1290972575 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a partially-qualified address (i.e. printing to a metainfiniteDarray) is a finite list of an infinite list of naturals < 1290972576 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1290972588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and that's the only kind of data you have, every object is indistinguishable, all you have is addresses < 1290972590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: good luck computing anything < 1290972592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i guess you could like < 1290972594 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, then there are those languages that are implemenetable and implemented, but impossible to implement efficiently. < 1290972598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move meta-infinite-D-arrays around < 1290972609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then say like < 1290972612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a virtual address < 1290972614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get the "real" address < 1290972616 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. move X to Y < 1290972623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means that virtual address Y resolves to real address X < 1290972625 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's all you have or something < 1290972646 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never made a new page....how? xD < 1290972684 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: Enter the name of the page in the URL and then edit < 1290972690 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290972692 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy < 1290972692 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other ways, too. < 1290972749 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have designed one such turing tarpit and even implemented it). I sure as heck wouldn't even want to try running "99 bottles" on it... < 1290972764 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who has plaed MegaZeux before, try this game: http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/mzx1/ASCMZXTO/ASCMZXTO.ZIP < 1290972791 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, hello world program took 15 seconds to run in the first interpretter version (I later optimized it down to 40 milliseconds). < 1290972840 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And still about my other question? How much more powerful do you think it would make it if you make a variant of FlooP but with the REDPROGRAM command added? And what would happen if instead you made a variant of BlooP with the REDPROGRAM command, instead? < 1290972907 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Of course, REDPROGRAM is impossible to actually implement.) < 1290972957 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any reference about REDPROGRAM? < 1290972969 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_: your map image files are quite large. 5 second processing on my old computer cuts it by almost half. (advpng -z1) < 1290972985 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: In Hofstadter's book. But I can tell you what it is, too. < 1290973165 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... If one instantiated the grammar class in that unimplementable-efficently esolang with unrestricted grammars (isntead complements of context-free grammars), the result would be super-turing (in fact, AH-Sigma-2) < 1290973210 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so that is how you specify computational classes of super-turing! I did not know that, before. < 1290973253 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instatiation with complements of context-free grammars results in turing-complete langage. < 1290973405 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give turing machine halting oracle for AH-Sigma-n, and the result can decide all problems in AH-Delta_(n+1), Detect all yes answers for AH-Sigma_(n+1) and detect all no answers for AH-Pi_(n+1) (without oracle the corresponding classes are are AH-Delta_1 = R, AH-Sigma_1 = RE and AH-Pi_1 = co-RE). < 1290973408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Type-generic expressions using the _Generic keyword (#define cbrt(X) _Generic((X), long double: cbrtl, default: cbrt, float: cbrtf)(X)) < 1290973413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coming soon to a c1x near you < 1290973620 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1290973628 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you call parts of a stack, elements? < 1290973674 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Do you need another reason not to use GNU software? < 1290973679 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: 'Cause I've got one! http://sprunge.us/TPPe < 1290973707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: (or, In Which Inexplicably Assholish IRC Moron Who I Try And Aid Turns Out To Be An Inetutils Developer) < 1290973710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you're talking to ams. *Fun*. < 1290973713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: since you're new .. ams has nothing to do with nix .. he just enjoys being rude to people here :/ < 1290973728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is best known as an asshole who should be banned from all the IRC channels. < 1290973759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GNU operating system! Brought to you by Drepper and ams! < 1290973777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this was in #nixos, which I somehow doubt he actually uses < 1290973794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is such an asshole. < 1290973799 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention a moron. < 1290973808 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never encountered him before. that fact is now plainly clear to me < 1290973826 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's one of the few guys who actively develops Hurd. < 1290973901 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but nobody *needs* a reason not to use hurd :) < 1290973903 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the reason < 1290973915 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wanna help me tarpit a microkernel interface???!?!! < 1290973916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eat shit L4 < 1290973956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway good to know the maintainer of GNU's "ping" among other things doesn't even know shit about free() :) < 1290974028 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: stop stalkin' me. < 1290974052 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://sprunge.us/gXiR < 1290974058 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Gogogo refine and address problems :P < 1290974074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: A problem I didn't mention is that just about any page-based IPC solution has the problem of a malicious program borking the page / two processes writing to the page at once. < 1290974139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, TIL that Python has while-else and for-else loops < 1290974166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I remember reading a comment on reddit, thinking "that seems exactly like ehird's opinion", then looking at who wrote it and seeing it was ehird < 1290974171 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D what was it? < 1290974178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about ESR and the Jargon File < 1290974180 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yes < 1290974184 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised that one got upvoted at all < 1290974193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think your opinion on the matter is unpopular? < 1290974214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I come into contact with far too many people who don't understand free() at the moment < 1290974216 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esr is rather popular, although admittedly he has been called out a lot more recently < 1290974222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occupational hazard of teaching C < 1290974234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C students are doing so much worse than the Java students... < 1290974235 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are any of them gnu maintainers? < 1290974247 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Teaching someone C as a first language is just stupid. < 1290974256 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad programming is done in any programming language. < 1290974263 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and how did those students "replace" sizeof with size_t? < 1290974265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they're masters' students, in theory they know other languages < 1290974266 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't see what the machine's doing, but you have to deal with what the machine's doing anyway; it can't really equip you for that at all. < 1290974274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: because sizeof wasn't in NetBeans' autocomplete < 1290974276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're masters' students?!?!?!?! < 1290974280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind that they'd been told not to use it < 1290974286 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was thinking like clueless undergrads < 1290974288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: w. t. f. < 1290974295 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this idea < 1290974296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yep, which means that many of them are coming from other universities, and many not have a legitimate first degree < 1290974299 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems useless < 1290974301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Remember: most "programmers" genuinely *suck*. < 1290974306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: who cares, this is #esoteric < 1290974319 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You are far above average simply because you grok C. < 1290974325 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can perform something like < 1290974332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people learning Java for the first time are first-year undergrads, and much better than the masters students < 1290974334 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i'm not sure grokking c is a useful skill :) < 1290974336 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0{++>--<} < 1290974348 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then whenever 0 shows up in the code, it's replaced < 1290974350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that looks like an esolang all right < 1290974350 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: grocking assembly, yes; grocking haskell/lisp/whatever, yes; C? it's a bit of a hermaphrodite language < 1290974355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replaced with what? < 1290974358 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: what if you do +{++}? < 1290974362 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is contained in the brackets < 1290974363 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with the body of the {}, one assumes < 1290974371 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only commands that aren't built in < 1290974379 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :characters that would otherwise be a comment < 1290974382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: understanding C means that you understand what the processor is actually doing at the asm level, generally speaking < 1290974404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... i'm not sure < 1290974408 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even imagine how one could replace sizeof in any manner (no matter how wrong) with size_t... < 1290974409 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I dont know, it seems to defeat the purpose of bf a little.. < 1290974411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in actual asm statements < 1290974411 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyone who says "C/C++" is clearly defying that < 1290974412 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Understanding C means that you have a modicum of intelligence and understand the current lingua franca. < 1290974419 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because C++ is very far removed from the machine < 1290974424 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and a lot of people treat C like C++ without features < 1290974430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: my experience is that people mean two different things by C++ < 1290974432 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not sure c is the lingua franca, probably java is :P < 1290974442 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write a lot programming with C and using bitwise operations and other things in C, including Enhanced CWEB. < 1290974453 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "C with Classes" and "MetaFunctionalTransmogrifier (with pointers underneath but NEVER USE THEM)"? < 1290974457 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm fairly certain the FFI for every language goes through C. < 1290974458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one set of people are the ones who write std::auto_ptr<> everywhere, those are the people who understand C++ as C++, and it's a completely different language from C < 1290974465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other set are those who use C++ just for the // comments < 1290974471 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290974483 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But modern C compilers can still use // comments even without C++ mode. < 1290974485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they usually use classes too < 1290974486 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me, does it defeat the purpose of bf? < 1290974488 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not much < 1290974488 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I understand C despite having resolved not to go into programming. < 1290974496 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Enhanced CWEB supports // style comments even if your C compiler does not. < 1290974499 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: everything defeats the point of bf, but it might not defeat the point of $your_language :) < 1290974502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seriously, I met someone with that opinion a while ago, although I think he may have been trolling; he was deliberately taking a Microsoft fanboy viewpoint, which is trollish in most places on Freenode) < 1290974508 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1290974510 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hypothesise that this is the essential reason almost all programmers suck. < 1290974510 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1290974525 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those who can actually program go into maths or proper CS. < 1290974527 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I want to keep it minimalistic, so for now, I'll leave it out. < 1290974558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't likely beat BF at BF's purpose (most BF derivatives are awful command substitutions), but you can beat it at something else, and many langs do < 1290974558 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the viewpoint that C++ is useful for // comments? heh < 1290974559 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lot of people who simply can't program in any language. < 1290974569 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, there's one more group: Slava Pestovs, who use C++ because it has namespaces and nothing else < 1290974574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: when pressed, he said and the occasional class < 1290974576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: And a lot of those get paid to program. < 1290974578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only member of this group is Slava Pestov < 1290974578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or words to that effect < 1290974590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://factor-language.blogspot.com/2009/05/factor-vm-ported-to-c.html < 1290974593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(title is actually C++) < 1290974605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, incidentally, double-free working forces programs to leak memory, there's no way to implement it otherwise < 1290974608 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :// comments is C++ feature, but usable in many C compilers (it is meaningless to put two / tokens together) < 1290974618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a C99 feature as well < 1290974628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, //**/ is legal C89 < 1290974633 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, incidentally, double-free working forces programs to leak memory, there's no way to implement it otherwise < 1290974633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people generally don't use it < 1290974638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's also Oleg. < 1290974642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, couldn't free(X) just fail silently if X is not allocated? < 1290974653 0 :wxl!~wxl@c-98-232-228-160.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290974663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :freeing NULL /is/ legal, by the way < 1290974670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the issue is that something else might have been allocated in the meantime < 1290974672 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "fizzbuzz program" being interview question tells something... For any serious programmer, that task is fscking joke... < 1290974674 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, //**/ I forgot about that. But it is still not sensible? < 1290974686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It can also launch the missiles. < 1290974686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, your double free deallocates data elsewhere in your program < 1290974687 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1290974688 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It also depnds a lot about how memory management is implemented? < 1290974714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc will stackdump if it notices a double-free, which it will if the address wasn't reallocated meanwhile, and there's an environment variable to tell it to ignore and keep on running < 1290974718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope nobody actually /uses/ it < 1290974733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used that backtrace to fix a bug in pcc! < 1290974736 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should submit the patch sometime. < 1290974746 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some C compilers (maybe GNU C? I am not sure) can turn off // comments if needed?? < 1290974749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: //**/ is indeed not particularly useful, that's why the C standard people decided they didn't care about breaking it < 1290974765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc will turn off // comments if you ask for strict C89 mode, e.g. using -ansi or -std=c89 < 1290974773 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one feature I like, is that data incremented is not commited until it's actually pushed to the stack. < 1290974774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a rather embarrassing mistake, but understandable for a program of 1970 vintage: http://sprunge.us/hhjR (this is a unified diff) < 1290974784 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :committed* < 1290974790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This works with glibc but not with alternate libcs (well, you can tell dietlibc and uClibc to allow it, but you shouldn't really) < 1290974814 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I forget what helped exactly, but I definitely got a backtrace when it was free()'d later < 1290974817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might not have been glibc actually < 1290974819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget what < 1290974824 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wasn't actually since I wasn't linking with glibc < 1290974827 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. it is a mystery < 1290974829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free was originally defined not to change the memory it freed, incidentally, so you could use the memory safely until your next malloc or free < 1290974844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not nowadays, as that screws up many plausible implementations, and fails in multithreaded programs < 1290974863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. DJGPP malloc stores metadata in a block immediately after freeing it < 1290974879 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enhanced CWEB will only put comments in the output program for section numbers (if it does so, the comments are /* */ style and on a line by itself), or if you use @=@> or @{send()@} while WEB will put comments in output program for section numbers and for @{@} (the @{@} in WEB is often used like #ifdef in C) < 1290974906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: incidentally, malloc(0) is allowed to return a pointer < 1290974912 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know < 1290974921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some libcs interpret it as malloc(8) < 1290974921 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yeah, investigating DJGPP allocator with purpose of seeing if one game is exploitable... :-) < 1290974923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: glibc does, but dietlibc and uClibc don't by default < 1290974927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other purpose of @{@} in WEB is for compiler directives; ordinary Pascal comments with {} are not copied to the output) < 1290974929 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hn < 1290974929 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see http://sprunge.us/hhjR for the fix to the bug this caused in pcc < 1290974930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw somewhere code that did "p = malloc(N); free(p); [messy code using p]" because "that makes it so much easier to avoid memory leaks". < 1290974936 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the hello world program I came up with < 1290974938 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'!'\'d'\'l'\'r'\'o'\'W'\' '\'o'\'l'\'l\'e'\'H'\ [./] < 1290974944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's beautiful < 1290974961 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letters can be created through regular incrementing though < 1290974970 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: But that is a improper code! < 1290974995 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Post any improper codes like this into The Daily WTF if you think they are of the kind of things can be posted there in the red category. < 1290974996 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: how do you pronounce improper? < 1290975001 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that should be "an improper" < 1290975009 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, is improper even the right word there? < 1290975021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, now I'm trying to figure out if malloc(0) returning NULL should simultaneously set errno to ENOMEM or not < 1290975033 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Makes it so much easier to launch the missiles. < 1290975034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EINVAL would make more sense, but is against the literal wording of the man page < 1290975050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the sort of success that's worse than failure < 1290975059 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *that's what the fuck < 1290975061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no. < 1290975074 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And that is The Daily WTF, the Worse Than Failure. < 1290975076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sentence doesn't make any sense if you say "what the fuck" there < 1290975079 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: (see wut i did thar see wut i did thar) < 1290975105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I preferred the name worsethanfailure, if the program just /doesn't work/ it's no fun, it's when it does work and makes no sense that it's fun < 1290975135 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's more the fact that it was an admitted deliberate bowlderisation, not an "honest" name change < 1290975141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1290975148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wtf" is quite a bowlderisation in itself < 1290975155 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the daily WTF is just terrible, putting it in the hands of a .NET Windows developer who runs ASP.NET software is ... yeah < 1290975163 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know he founded it) < 1290975164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, thedailywtf is really hard to mentally pronounce, worsethanfailure is much easier < 1290975186 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also all the submissions are the same boring stuff these days < 1290975210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Windows is a better place to find those things anyway, not because Windows is inherently prone to WTFs (it might be, but that isn't the real reason here), but because the sort of programmers who make them are more likely to be working on a Windows stack, or maybe typical mysql/PHP hosting < 1290975221 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we still discussing how 99% of people are incorrigible morons? < 1290975236 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1290975241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, the submissions are always edited into unrecognisability anyway nowadays; someone said they submitted something and didn't recognise the resulting story < 1290975251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I think we came back to that topic via a different route < 1290975332 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is still comments and sidebar, though. And also old articles. But you can still read the new articles, too. < 1290975368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidebar is great < 1290975376 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My complaint is that the sponsor appreciation are blue category, I think they should belong in a gray category since the articles work like those in the gray category in generally. < 1290975386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I loved your WebFlogScript example in the coding help subforum, btw < 1290975388 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the categories have names, you know < 1290975396 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh link? < 1290975400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to find it again, now < 1290975448 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ "Print or Fish" was originally published on 2005-11-22, and never seems to grow old... ]] < 1290975451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's five goddamn years old! < 1290975457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/8373/162327.aspx#162327 < 1290975457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly over that in fact < 1290975459 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: It doesn't matter what they call it, they can call it "Sponsor Appreciation" category if they want to, but its color should be gray. (There are some categories that do share colors with other categories) < 1290975487 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, so it's not actually a flogscript program that outputs html < 1290975490 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm disappointed! < 1290975497 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The other gray category is the "Error'd" category) < 1290975502 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is < 1290975532 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/8373/165183.aspx#165183 < 1290975542 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why use two appropriate languages when you can use only one inappropriate language? < 1290975554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow, I don't quite think that thread expected that answer < 1290975575 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, on Linux, one can't map 0 pages... :-) < 1290975588 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, now i just want to know if you can do a full web app in SQL, assuming you have a table called, say, context containing query string, post data, etc. < 1290975596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: CRUD has never been so cruddy! < 1290975617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SET MARKUP HTML ON SPOOL OFF; < 1290975617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SELECT * FROM USERS; < 1290975619 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's just cheating < 1290975660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Client.c:(.text+0x83): warning: the `gets' function is dangerous and should not be used. < 1290975669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: is it fair to deduct someone 2 and a half grade boundaries for that? < 1290975678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maybe not the most elegant, but I thought it's worth sharing. C# .Net & SQL2005. Grabs raw XML from SQL output and loads it to an XSLT file for output." < 1290975686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends < 1290975694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this mark scheme is draconian < 1290975696 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's the context? < 1290975704 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even some of the programs I wrote in GWBASIC did not use line numbers (and GWBASIC requires line numbers). < 1290975711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: as in, is there an easy situation to imagine where you can easily overflow that? < 1290975716 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: almost certainly, I would guess < 1290975732 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in which case, yes. I suppose there *might* be ... some ... context in which gets is abominable but not TOTALLY abominable. < 1290975738 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No, fuck it, it's unacceptable. Deduct the marks. < 1290975757 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fun, try to get there and then crash the app... :-) < 1290975770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreting it literally, it would be a deduction of 4 grade boundaries, which would be even more ridiculous < 1290975776 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I approve < 1290975777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from a first to a fail < 1290975788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: come on, he used gets() < 1290975795 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well... how big is the buffer? < 1290975806 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1024 and it's a human typed message or whatever? ok, deduct 2.5 < 1290975811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 or something and it's the same? fail! < 1290975834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, you dumped a lot of info at once, from my point of view < 1290975839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I had a connection hiccup? < 1290975844 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you probably did < 1290975845 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't < 1290975853 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog backs me up < 1290975855 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's your problem < 1290975862 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but i still saw what you wrote < 1290975864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting! < 1290975867 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you see this? respond ASAP < 1290975871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4096 bytes, it seems < 1290975881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you see this? say "yes2" ASAP < 1290975884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes2 < 1290975890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, your connection is fine now < 1290975894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun reading my messages :P < 1290975923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also used scanf("%[^\n]") into a 100-byte buffer < 1290975935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user input in both cases, what else would you use gets() for? < 1290975942 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it could be like < 1290975944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and intended to be human-typed < 1290975944 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 4-byte serial code < 1290975949 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be an IRC-style message < 1290975951 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In memfuck(current name) Cat is produced like so: +\[>,\[./]<] < 1290975952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it could be an email < 1290975956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it was, literally, an IRC-style message < 1290975966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question could be best described as "like IRC, except using UDP" < 1290975984 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, 4096 bytes with gets() is only worth a 1 to 2 grade deduction i think, since that's far more than irc allows < 1290975991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but scanf on a 100-byte buffer? < 1290975997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: deduct as many marks as you possibly can < 1290976004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was for a username < 1290976007 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although... if his program compiles and runs and works, then don't < 1290976013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because i bet a lot of the others don't :) < 1290976015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the program doesn't work < 1290976019 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290976022 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fail it then < 1290976031 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail it with FIRE < 1290976036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I'm just trying to interpret a markscheme that deducts 2.5 grade boundaries for any warning < 1290976051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's caught at the warning level of -Wall without -Wextra and without optimisation, which is a really screwed up warning level < 1290976067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh? -Wextra isn't all that popular < 1290976074 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimisation doesn't add warnings does it? < 1290976078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1290976082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them can't be caught without optimisation < 1290976090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there isn't enough information < 1290976096 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ...wow just wow @ gcc. < 1290976099 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... When I did programming course, assignments were failed for any warning... < 1290976107 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: now *that's* just stupid < 1290976114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. at -O2 you get nice warnings like "warning: this buffer will always overflow" < 1290976123 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I say: deduct as much as you can, *unless* all the other programs are *even more terrible*. < 1290976123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: I'm marking to a similar markscheme right now, and it seems unfair < 1290976130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no, that was one of the worse ones < 1290976139 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, I see no reason not to kick it to death then < 1290976148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1290976148 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in context of that course, it wasn't very unfair. < 1290976161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I have a different student's work, which is mostly very good except they forgot to include string.h < 1290976164 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(multiple returns with feedback). < 1290976167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their makefile uses -Werror, so it doesn't compile < 1290976183 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF... < 1290976185 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, i was thinking of them as a clueless 18 year old < 1290976192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah fail it :P < 1290976194 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to configure which warnings are considered errors and which are warnings? < 1290976207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: they were told to use -Werror, as a method to make them take warnings seriously < 1290976221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's -pedantic-errors, but nothing finer-grained than that IIRC < 1290976234 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -pedantic is nice < 1290976239 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually go for -Wall -pedantic < 1290976244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed; -pedantic-errors is over the top, though < 1290976253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as the standard itself only insists on warnings < 1290976271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1290976276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be precise, diagonstics of any type, the compiler defines what a diagnostic is, but everyone interprets it as "warnings or above") < 1290976279 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, that -pedantic is with -std=c89 < 1290976288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they've been told to use -std=gnu99 < 1290976292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the examples won't compile without it < 1290976293 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some I think ought to be errors, some I think ought to be warnings, and some I think ought to be considered correct and have no warning and no error. < 1290976298 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have little faith in this course < 1290976303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have complained, except the course is focusing on C as a method of teaching hacking Linux < 1290976315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you consider it correct, you can use -Wno- < 1290976316 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: please god keep these people away from my kernel < 1290976328 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least it's motivation for me to work on @ :) < 1290976330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. -Wno-format-security to turn off warnings about printf(variable); < 1290976336 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(@ = ElliottOS) < 1290976343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, is there a -Wno-if(x=y)-warnings? < 1290976344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I guessed from context < 1290976345 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh... Reminds me of one of my programs... It has some code accepted from somebody else... Guess which modules have -Werror and which don't? :-) < 1290976346 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those piss me off < 1290976360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I believe so; clang even tells you what the option is, unlike gcc < 1290976373 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good < 1290976446 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, extra pair of () should silence that warning... < 1290976452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: -Wno-parentheses < 1290976459 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Memfuck < 1290976460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as Ilari says, you can suppress it by doubling the parens of the if < 1290976461 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's that? < 1290976464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, if((x=y)) < 1290976478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know that < 1290976479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I've taken to using double parens around any assignment in an expression that isn't just x=y=z < 1290976479 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's irritating < 1290976481 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ugly < 1290976484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say "yes I really mean this" < 1290976486 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll write more, but that's all I got without an interpreter or compiler to base what it's capabilities are < 1290976504 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: is User:Goosey actually registered? < 1290976508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you created that page as an IP < 1290976508 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1290976512 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaa? < 1290976524 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, in Enhanced CWEB the assignment operator is printed by left arrow to easily tell the difference of a equal operator, so, we do not need that warning. But using numbers as pointers and pointers as numbers (except zero) without cast should be error, instead of a warning. < 1290976526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: btw, suggestion: whenever you add commands to BF, take a BF command away to make it interesting :-) < 1290976540 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, okay :D < 1290976559 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you think the structure right now is solid enough to implement? < 1290976578 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1290976586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hmm, this student would get full marks, apart from the inability of it to compile due to the missing header, and because it reads data after a free() < 1290976593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: I fixed up your page a bit. < 1290976599 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: formatting and categories < 1290976604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and not checking the return value of fgets, but I bet those marks will be moderated up because the other TAs didn't think to check < 1290976613 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: deduct the minimum you can + 1 < 1290976613 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reads data after a free"? < 1290976616 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, wasn't sure how to add categories < 1290976617 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i.e. second-minimum < 1290976622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but come on, everyone else is even worse than this. < 1290976627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fixed markscheme, no place for subjectivity in theory < 1290976630 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instant fail in the course, if it were up to me... < 1290976633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to be the same between different markers < 1290976638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're masters' students :) < 1290976639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Then everyone should fail. < 1290976640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's -3 out of 20, that's quite a lot < 1290976654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pretty much every student got that -3 for some reason or another, mostly overflowing fixed-size buffers < 1290976683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That earns them -1 degree. < 1290976713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly only if too much data was given, but several students wrote code that was guaranteed to overflow no matter what; in particular, many students seemed to think strcat had the magical property of working even in contexts where no sensible function would) < 1290976725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've lost track of how many times I've seen strcat to an uninitialized buffer < 1290976751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one student even tried strcat to a buffer initialized with a constant string with no length specified < 1290976762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gcc with -O2 gave me a nice little "this function will always overflow its buffer" warning < 1290976773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: -O2, not -Os? < 1290976783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using -O2 just to get the warnings < 1290976791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I run the programs at -O0 to reduce the chance they crash arbitrarily < 1290976827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, the second exercise, the example code they've been given to work with malfunctions at -O1 or higher, because it tries to use a loop to busywait without checking timers or even changing a volatile variable) < 1290976843 0 :kar8nga!~kar8nga@78.104.81.157 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290976864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: awful < 1290976874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are all mistakes I'd want to hand out a failing grade for. Dear God, I must be absolutely amazing just because I don't completely and utterly suck at this. < 1290976880 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Fail the professor! < 1290976885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, I would if I coudl < 1290976909 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1290976917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a way back up from the rabbit hole? < 1290976927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the course has two professors, one who distributes examples which don't compile with their recommended -Werror (mixing up signed and unsigned pointers), and the other who's ridiculously strict about everything and recommended the -Werror in the first place < 1290976958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one set the exercise, then unexpectedly had to leave for several weeks, and I've had to do loads of work to try to handle the fallout < 1290976989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And now I see absolutely nothing wrong with my exploiting the statement of the problems on programming assignments just to amuse myself. < 1290977012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you have to be careful, you may lose marks just because the markers don't understand what you did < 1290977013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Implement foo non-recursively" → "Implement foo with a manual call stack instead of using the C stack" < 1290977039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best submission I saw clearly did something like that, their server wasn't what the rest of us had expected, but a server in the Apache sense < 1290977046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had things like thread pools, logging, and daemonization < 1290977051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though we hadn't asked for them < 1290977065 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1290977067 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: full marks i hope < 1290977076 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unless they're Vorpal; then they might have actually meant it *seriously* < 1290977079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I can't report other student's marks! < 1290977094 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you didn't < 1290977100 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: although automatic daemonisation is actually an anti-feature... < 1290977108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, it made it a pain to mark < 1290977130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: OTOH, they're clearly way too bored by this and so how good their program is is basically irrelevant because they should pass anyway :) < 1290977137 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>v < 1290977140 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^< < 1290977244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most annoying thing about the course is that many students found an exercise which was meant to test that they understood the basics of C and managed to avoid using either pointers or memory management < 1290977248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet the solution was still mostly correct < 1290977293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290977308 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: to be honest, i tend to avoid using memory management too! although not pointers < 1290977315 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've called malloc in my last three, four C programs at all < 1290977317 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd be tempted to do so as well. < 1290977331 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: surely not pointers, they're the easiest way to iterate... < 1290977342 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only way to pass around arrays < 1290977348 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Only tempted to subvert the point of the assignment. < 1290977355 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*and the only way to pass around statically-allocated storage :P < 1290977362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Also, not true in C99. < 1290977397 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, technically it's still a pointer behind the scenes, but you *can* pass around actual C arrays just fine in C99. < 1290977403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: really? < 1290977411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1290977414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like this: < 1290977421 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int foo(int n, int bar[n]) < 1290977427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void do_something_with_an_int_array(int length, int array[length]) < 1290977439 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1290977440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of awful < 1290977443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hey, no getting there first just because I used meaningful variable names! < 1290977456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm sorry, but I'd rather see pikhq's line in a program than yours. < 1290977466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed, but I'd rather see my line in an example < 1290977470 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Calling a variable "length" is bad enough; call an array "array" and I'll never talk to you again. < 1290977478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless it's a generic array operation.) < 1290977487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's clearly a very generic operation, given its name < 1290977497 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1290977535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: surely it should be "void *do_something_with_an_int_array(void (*function)(void *element), int length, void *array[length])" < 1290977544 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: where the return value is a pointer to the newly-constructed array < 1290977546 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that thing is map < 1290977551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or reverse map < 1290977564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or permutation-determined-by-length map < 1290977575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, seems the Tuesday relevance came several days too early, this week < 1290977600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used pretty much exactly that example, to try to prove that just the type signature said a lot about the function given certain reasonable assumptions < 1290977635 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1290977642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now if they were using haskell... < 1290977648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b] < 1290977650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually all that helpful really < 1290977671 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if you assume it does the *minimum possible orthogonal operation*, then it's easy to deduce < 1290977681 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversing is an "extra step", so it doesn't do that < 1290977682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: their assumptions were orthogonality assumptions < 1290977688 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f (x:_) = [f x] < 1290977690 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't orthogonal < 1290977695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't treat the whole data structure equally < 1290977697 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia is shrinking < 1290977699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were trying to demonstrate that their assumptions were useful given the situation < 1290977699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the only thing it can be given those assumptions is < 1290977699 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1290977703 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map _ [] = [] < 1290977705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1290977707 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map f (x:xs) = f x : map f xs < 1290977710 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or equivalent) < 1290977711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right < 1290977712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: you mean, pages are being deleted faster than they're being created? or something else? < 1290977720 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :page length < 1290977723 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1290977725 0 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn37-203.vpn.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1290977730 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Turing_tarpit&oldid=138230249 < 1290977734 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the OLD revision < 1290977744 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trust you can check the new one :) < 1290977746 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, down? < 1290977752 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: removing pointless fluff is not a bad thing < 1290977757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :length(page_text) is not a valid metric < 1290977759 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reject your complaint < 1290977765 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen that on MANY pages < 1290977770 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Examples section is worthless, there < 1290977777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "Use of phrase in computer science" is uncited bullshit < 1290977780 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new page is better < 1290977783 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol. < 1290977811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, the universal rebuttal. < 1290977842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_language is a better article than i expected < 1290977847 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up again < 1290977848 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although lolcode should not be the first entry there :( < 1290977856 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLCODE sounds fun < 1290977861 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't fun to program in < 1290977862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLCODE sucks. < 1290977863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and WHY does http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxi_Programming_Language have an article < 1290977866 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just looks funny < 1290977866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: lolcode is the worst esolang ever. < 1290977871 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1290977911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: LOLCODE is, unfortunately, the most famous esolang < 1290977917 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :): < 1290977928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : viric: ams was asking about the status of NixOS on MIPS < 1290977928 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so i was advertising your hard and fruitful work :-) < 1290977931 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no, you where trying to get me to do viric work so he can get all the credit... du'h. < 1290977933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: does he ever stop? < 1290977948 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm, i think it may be tied with brainfuck < 1290977952 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you're probably right i guess < 1290977954 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No. < 1290977977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: He makes RMS look positively well-behaved and accepting of dissent. < 1290977981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: brainfuck gets a *lot* of publicity in random forums -- think bad design, Invision Power Board, circa 2004-2006 sort of places; it ends up popping up a lot... and I'm not sure how I know this < 1290978071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: can i hire you to write a super-awesome specialiser < 1290978167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I accept $50 American Gold Eagles. < 1290978186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For face value. < 1290978209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: certainly, i'll go kill an american eagle and gold-plate it < 1290978222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean the legal tender coin. < 1290978226 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1290978660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is bad because Hitler played it. < 1290978725 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1290978774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: < 1290978775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : make nixos free software, and we can host it on ftp.gnu.org < 1290978775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I agree making it free software < 1290978775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Although doing that only to get hosting... :) < 1290978775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : making nix a gnu poroject could be cool < 1290978775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : viric: the main reason should be to respect your users < 1290978777 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh oh, I'm shocked, lessons about respect < 1290978779 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 22:11 /ignore viric < 1290978781 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you can't make this shit up < 1290978912 0 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-18bf618a.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290978996 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to write free software so that the software can be used and improved. < 1290979025 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to write expensive software to teach people how to steal. < 1290979050 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey: unless the software is like, Theft: The Interactive Tutorial, then you don't < 1290979053 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you teach them how to infringe copyright < 1290979056 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290979128 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are allowed to charge as much money as you want for free software. But it is still illegal for someone to go to your house and steal the disk. < 1290979158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, ams really is more of a zealot than rms. < 1290979182 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: now he's chastising them for having Acrobat Reader packages and using kernel.org Linux rather than linux-libre < 1290979190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and telling them they need a policy on Freeness < 1290979218 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see? < 1290979227 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tempted to write vams(1) now < 1290979254 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which shoots you if you have the audacity to use kernel.org Linux. < 1290979276 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs vrms
< 1290979282 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, I have non-free packages installed! < 1290979288 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 11 non-free packages, 0.7% of 1678 installed packages. < 1290979289 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 contrib packages, 0.1% of 1678 installed packages. < 1290979320 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Free Software Foundation lists vrms among packages that don't respect its Free System Distribution Guidelines" < 1290979324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: Purports to tell you about nonfree software on your system. < 1290979324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: Incomplete and misleading. < 1290979324 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended Fix: Remove it, a free distribution doesn't need it. < 1290979326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's vrms? < 1290979343 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a debian package that tells you about all the non-DFSG stuff you have on your system < 1290979346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1290979347 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists every package < 1290979349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Virtual RMS. It tells you if you've installed any packages from contrib or non-free. < 1290979353 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just like to list http://libreplanet.org/wiki/List_of_software_that_does_not_respect_the_Free_System_Distribution_Guidelines here < 1290979356 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: IRC client. < 1290979357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: http://xchat.org/ < 1290979357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: Refers to a non-free browser in its URL handlers. < 1290979357 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended Fix: Remove the URL handler entry. < 1290979361 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it means Firefox... < 1290979390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, referring to nonfree software violates the FSDG? and that has a confusingly similar acronym to the DFSG? < 1290979403 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1290979407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*initialism, if there are any pedants watching < 1290979409 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently you have to remove Chromium, too! < 1290979432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Emacs violates the same, then. < 1290979435 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who made these guidelines < 1290979440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: rms < 1290979446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it refers to Win32 and DOS a lot in its manual) < 1290979447 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while on crack < 1290979455 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the author of the emacs tutorial had to avoid mentioning win32/dos < 1290979459 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because rms said he couldn't < 1290979462 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after he did < 1290979463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: *facepalm* < 1290979467 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: um < 1290979478 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: IIRC, he was also told to insert a lot of the language about "you MAY have arrow keys on your TERMINAL!" too < 1290979481 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rms does not need crack to write guidelines like this < 1290979491 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: no, it's just that he's always on crack < 1290979494 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it was just an extra detail < 1290979510 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the debian documentation < 1290979511 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1290979512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: Gaming server that emulates Battle.net® < 1290979512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979512 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: only useful with proprietary software < 1290979520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make this shit up < 1290979527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I see absolutely *nothing* wrong with merely mentioning proprietary software. Especially when it's such well-known software that anyone who hasn't heard of it is too in awe at the magic box to bother reading documentation. < 1290979534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: [[ Description: Gaming server that emulates Battle.net® < 1290979534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979534 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: only useful with proprietary software ]] < 1290979554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Description: scripts to talk to the CIA commit service. < 1290979554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: contains a script for bitkeeper, which is only useful with proprietary software < 1290979554 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended Fix: remove bitkeeper script ]] < 1290979560 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1290979561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Description: command-not-found is the program sugesting what package to install if one tries to execute a non-installed application in a shell. < 1290979561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979561 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: suggests proprietary software ]] < 1290979563 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's a wiki, right? < 1290979567 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the FSF consider command-not-found non-Free < 1290979572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sure; you go audit the revision history < 1290979576 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1290979583 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking I should add one for < 1290979596 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"does something RMS already wrote software for" < 1290979600 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1290979604 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, indeed, the Debian documentation is non-FSF < 1290979613 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is written by someone who works for a software company < 1290979615 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the like < 1290979620 0 :wareya_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290979622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Description: Web browser < 1290979622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979622 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: recommends non-free software ]] < 1290979624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1290979630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't even complainig about the artwork or tardemark < 1290979637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[] Firefox 2 in the repos allows you to install flashplayer 10. I have tested this myself, and it downloads, installs and runs.]] < 1290979639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAAHHAAHAHA < 1290979645 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIREFOX IS NON-FREE BECAUSE IT LETS YOU INSTALL FLASH < 1290979666 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't the artistic license FSF-approved? < 1290979677 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mention of branding (which is why Debian has Iceweasel)? < 1290979678 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: only version 2 < 1290979683 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But the crazy trademark and artwork scheme? A-OK. < 1290979683 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: nope, just recommending flash < 1290979686 0 :wareya!~wareya@cpe-74-70-142-220.nycap.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290979688 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh < 1290979693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ iceweasel < 1290979693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Description: firefox based web browser < 1290979694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: same issues as firefox, incl. suggesting proprietary plugins < 1290979694 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended Fix: use gnu icecat ]] < 1290979699 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no words < 1290979713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" linux linux-backports-modules* linux-ubuntu-modules " < 1290979721 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at the thunderbird entry < 1290979727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Description: Allows running MacOS inside a GNU/Linux system. < 1290979727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: < 1290979727 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: Only runs/supports proprietary software. ]] < 1290979729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: do I want to? < 1290979738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: Recommends non-free software (extensions). < 1290979738 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended Fix: Change link to point to GNUzilla's list of free addons. < 1290979742 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1290979744 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP < 1290979746 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is perfect < 1290979774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/gnewsense-users/2007-02/msg00027.html in which vrms outputs 7 gnu packages and nothing else < 1290979803 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i even kinda respected the gnewsense people before this < 1290979819 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but they're not dedicated to Free Software -- they're dedicated to pretending non-Free Software doesn't even *exist*! < 1290979826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orwellian < 1290979862 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that is... wow < 1290979871 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: what is? < 1290979881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1290979882 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok this takes the cake < 1290979884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ Description: UNetbootin allows for the installation of various Linux/BSD distributions to a partition or USB drive, so it's no different from a standard install, only it doesn't need a CD. It can create a dual-boot install, or replace the existing OS entirely. < 1290979884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ < 1290979884 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem: It lists many non-fsdg operating systems. ]] < 1290979887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unetbootin < 1290979888 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is non-Free < 1290979890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because unetbootin < 1290979892 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets you download < 1290979894 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian. < 1290979897 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is non-Free. < 1290979910 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we just kill RMS now pls < 1290979911 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm exploding with happy < 1290979923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they recommend this < 1290979923 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSBi, the Free USB Installer, downloads free GNU/Linux Distributions for you and creates bootable USB images. < 1290979924 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSBi supports automated installation of of all the FSF-endorsed Free Software GNU/Linux Distributions, such as gNewSense, UTUTO, Dynebolic, Musix GNU+Linux, BLAG and GNUstep. You can also use it with your local image files. < 1290979925 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://aligunduz.org/FUSBi/ < 1290979933 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow there is a gnustep livecd. < 1290979956 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally < 1290979960 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Personas for Firefox Changes the look of the browser easily MPL 1.1/GPL 2.0/LGPL 2.1 Licenses stated on the website." --IceCat addons < 1290979961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY < 1290979967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet most of the Persona themes < 1290979967 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do dfsg consider make-doc and the like non-free < 1290979967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are non-Free < 1290979967 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOW < 1290979976 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: GFDL with invariant clauses < 1290979981 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: for instance, you can't modify the emacs manual to remove the GNU manifesto < 1290979984 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1290979989 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: redistributing it like that is disallowed < 1290979997 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: (The GFDL is pretty much the worst license... ever.) < 1290980001 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it truly is < 1290980015 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because it makes GCC docs suck < 1290980015 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: btw, if I have an urge to make a license that's even more GPL than the AGPL, just for the esoteric of it, is that bad? < 1290980018 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it? < 1290980018 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they can't include snippets < 1290980021 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that violates GPL < 1290980025 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: :D < 1290980043 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that it'd be like the AGPL, except s/over a network/over any kind of communication -- Unix pipes, IPC, anything/ < 1290980052 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: don't forget system calls < 1290980054 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would disallow proprietary frontends to GPL'd programs < 1290980071 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hmm, maybe :D < 1290980093 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, what about disallowing any transfer of data whatsoever to anything proprietary? < 1290980102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ultimate fsf isolationist software < 1290980103 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: I was going to add a clause saying that a shell being able to pipe one program to another doesn't make this apply, so that you can distribute non-GPL'd programs with a system < 1290980108 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: but what the heck, let's not include that exception < 1290980117 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copying and pasting GCC output into IE: a license violation. < 1290980121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anything that makes a sideways glance at this program must be IGPL'd (Insane General Public License)." < 1290980121 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: <3 < 1290980127 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: IGPL? < 1290980129 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad name < 1290980130 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: make it *Microsoft's* license violation < 1290980130 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FGPL < 1290980135 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free General Public License < 1290980141 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, the GFDL sucks so bad. < 1290980147 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: FUGPL Fucked Up General Public License -- or, to every developer ever, the Fuck You General Public License < 1290980173 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing the software on Debian: A licence violation. < 1290980182 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can't use FUGPL'd software on Windows? < 1290980194 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading about the software on a non-totally-GPL'd operating system: license violation < 1290980197 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Apparently someone once made the mistake of introducing RMS as an author of open source < 1290980206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing about the software and using non-FUGPL'd software in any way: license violation < 1290980210 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*non-totally-FUGPL'd < 1290980212 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(above) < 1290980212 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290980237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Oh, the ranting that must have brought. < 1290980267 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: elliott: so promotion of non-free software (like that gaming server) is counted as not respecting < 1290980268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: elliott: now it's time to consider the "lack of features" a promotion of non-free software < 1290980270 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fully support this motion < 1290980283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1290980307 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, so not having something proprietary software has is a promotion of it? < 1290980319 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: yep < 1290980320 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: right < 1290980325 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people might use that software because it's more featured < 1290980331 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1290980339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, every second spent not replacing all software with GPL'd equivalents is a second spent in sin < 1290980360 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll go to a special hell for that < 1290980366 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll have to spend eternity listening to RMS < 1290980404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if anyone really uses vrms
< 1290980414 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: sure < 1290980434 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DFSG are sane < 1290980452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Mostly, yeah. < 1290980466 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'm curious to see what I have that is non-DFSG, so I'm downloading vrms < 1290980481 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, having any use whatsoever for proprietary software is a licence violation. < 1290980485 0 :zzo38!~zzo38@h24-207-49-17.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1290980485 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "downloading"? surely you just mean installing :P < 1290980499 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: have to download first... but yes, through apt < 1290980500 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: not licensing your thoughts under the FUGPL is a license violation < 1290980510 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: having a dream involving non-FUGPL'd software is a liecnse violation < 1290980513 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash and microsoft fonts < 1290980515 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is acceptable < 1290980521 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GCC can be used to compile non-free software. < 1290980525 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also some nvidia drivers apparently < 1290980527 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I just removed them < 1290980531 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LICENCE VIOLATION < 1290980533 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1290980546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did they send a request like this? "POST http://127.0.0.1:6667/ HTTP/1.0" < 1290980555 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is they? < 1290980559 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's some exploit i think < 1290980562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hasn't worked in years < 1290980562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1290980563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1290980564 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1290980568 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it connected to the irc server, i think < 1290980573 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it proxied to localhost's irc port < 1290980581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people wrote javascript to do that with an iframe or something < 1290980581 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1290980592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also some nvidia drivers apparently < 1290980592 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but I just removed them < 1290980595 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: are you on a nvidia card? < 1290980597 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: no < 1290980601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: X-D < 1290980604 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know why they were on my system < 1290980612 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to connect to my IRC server you use the proper IRC client please. < 1290980619 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fuck nvidia etc. < 1290980623 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: mine are: http://sprunge.us/PYKQ < 1290980634 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not trying things like this that doesn't work the IRC is not even HTTP < 1290980635 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: distro? < 1290980648 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Coq documentation, Emacs documentation, gcc documentation, LHA, Sun's Java (for Minecraft), and the non-free TTFs for Luxi Mono which I don't even use because Emacs fails at it so I'll just remove that. < 1290980650 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: Debian < 1290980652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1290980657 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian testing that is < 1290980663 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1290980692 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GFDL violates DFSG, or is the documentation under some other license? < 1290980693 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my list might not be 100% accurate, depending on how vrms works < 1290980704 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: If it has invariant sections, yes < 1290980712 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GFDL violates DFSG under certain conditions < 1290980715 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU likes those conditions a lot. < 1290980729 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: it just lists every package from the non-free and contrib repos installed < 1290980735 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: < 1290980740 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops, mistype < 1290980766 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: iirc the Artistic License v1 won't be included < 1290980772 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because debian consider it Free or something < 1290980774 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the FSF don't < 1290980783 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, dfsg do < 1290980833 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: AL 1 isn't DFSG. < 1290980849 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do they try to access /favicon.ico with every request? Can't the client cache it? Do I need to change the response code to 410 instead of 404 to make it stop doing that? < 1290980860 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes it is < 1290980864 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, try 404 < 1290980875 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, reread what zzo38 said < 1290980879 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I did. < 1290980881 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290980885 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IIRC some browser buggily requested a 404'd one every request < 1290980887 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so it might be those. < 1290980891 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :410 probably won't help < 1290980894 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or should it change 412? < 1290980905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh, it is. And Wikipedia lies. < 1290980912 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: un-lie it then < 1290980953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'm now trying to figure out if specialising Y for argument fact gives you the "obvious" way to do a recursive fact in the lambda calculus. < 1290980961 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: And if you can then somehow transform this into a directly recursive function. < 1290980992 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1290980993 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All interesting partial evaluators seem to use “The Trick” (i.e. eta expansion) somewhere to get specialization going. How does that work in your machine?]] < 1290980994 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE TRICK < 1290981148 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, look. < 1290981155 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a Culture Wikia after all. < 1290981161 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1290981163 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must see < 1290981175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, boring < 1290981177 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: enjoy your eye pain < 1290981179 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1290981199 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm assuming the eye pain comes from whatever is normally in the borders. < 1290981235 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Edinburgh author Iain M. Banks,]] — Somewhere on the webosphere < 1290981269 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly, North Queensferry is hardly indistinguishable from Edinburgh. < 1290981534 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What more channels do I need? < 1290981624 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add in any channels you requested *now*, before it is too late! < 1290981649 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I'm assuming "200-metre long cigar with globes full of shooty things" is a good starting point. < 1290981740 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Visit Embassy Tel Aviv's Classified Website:" < 1290981941 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, what's sea level on the topo map? < 1290981957 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light yellow? < 1290982034 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: holy crap 200 blocks is long. < 1290982037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: That irregularly shaped thing immediately below the staircase pair is one below sea level. < 1290982049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because it's that pool.) < 1290982058 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I added one channel < 1290982097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of the stairs, heh, it seems that the torches along the edge of the stairs make it look like the stairs are three wide in the topo-map. < 1290982338 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1290982356 0 :Sasha2!~WHAT@97-124-39-3.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290982413 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1290982424 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290982436 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minecraft? < 1290982439 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1290982445 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm building an ROU. < 1290982451 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, planning to do so. < 1290982470 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, why am I a pope? < 1290982497 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Vorpal, elliott, vote for where I have planning permission. Over the causeway is my current location. < 1290982590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "planning permission" a formal thing or just a rule of the server? < 1290982605 0 :Sasha2_!~WHAT@97-124-35-246.phnx.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290982626 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, ? < 1290982645 0 :Sasha2_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am running Biome Terrain Mod < 1290982650 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, what do you mean? < 1290982653 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros_, lag < 1290982668 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, "can I build a huge and very visible structure in the air over the causeway?" < 1290982677 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, "causeway"? < 1290982686 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you mean the skyway? < 1290982687 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the spawn to the mainland. < 1290982689 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How portable is C++? < 1290982696 0 :Sasha2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290982703 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, as portable as DON'T USE IT EVER. < 1290982704 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, do you mean the bridge? < 1290982712 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, yes. < 1290982723 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, if you mean over the bridge: no. Also it would mess up the max alt reeds < 1290982724 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer C instead of C++. < 1290982738 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like C more < 1290982742 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just wondering though < 1290982746 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dont know C well < 1290982752 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started out with functional languages < 1290982758 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog was my first < 1290982761 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1290982762 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then use C. Learn C. I like to use Enhanced CWEB. < 1290982781 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goosey, Prolog isn't functional, although it's very closely related to functional language. < 1290982796 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And an introduction to programming that most of us can only dream of. < 1290982802 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, splitting hairs main. < 1290982806 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man* < 1290982816 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't learn C until like my 3rd language < 1290982824 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wasn't interested in it for a while < 1290982842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is a very good program language to learn. Forth is also a good program language to learn. < 1290982890 0 :augur!~augur@208.58.6.161 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290982948 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ sucks dicks < 1290982970 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+1 < 1290983035 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least C++ has more of a reason to exist than C++/CLI < 1290983037 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1290983071 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1290983078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290983084 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only useful thing about C++ is that it's like C but you can put functions in objects and that there's inheritance < 1290983091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have opinion, if you want to. But I prefer Enhanced CWEB (in C mode). < 1290983095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inheritance is evil < 1290983096 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are* < 1290983109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, you hate Smalltalk now? < 1290983114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I started out with functional languages < 1290983114 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Prolog was my first < 1290983118 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are insanely lucky. < 1290983123 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1290983126 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1290983135 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not if you're making something like a video game < 1290983137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional first language is incredibly rare in programming < 1290983140 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: yes, even then. < 1290983147 0 :Goosey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care for video games though < 1290983150 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: inheritance is one of smalltalk's mistakes :) newspeak corrects this < 1290983154 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you think that inheritance is bad for video games that I don't know what to tell you. < 1290983159 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think in C, it is not even useful for function in object and inheritance, because C has pointers and structures and unions and preprocessor, and you can make similar stuff like what you need, with it. And even Enhanced CWEB, to add interpreted codes at compile-time. < 1290983168 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: hell, I don't think objects are suitable for video games. < 1290983174 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but objects with inheritance are the worst. < 1290983179 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1290983190 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun in a world where video games don't ever use objects < 1290983196 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is excited for Newspeak... but when will it settle down?
< 1290983206 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: FRP, bitch. < 1290983209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: never. < 1290983221 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think prototype inheritance is useful for text-adventure games, though. < 1290983242 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Hell for video game designers < 1290983256 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: um, video game *designers* don't code. < 1290983262 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The good ones do. < 1290983268 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1290983271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you have no idea what hell is, you were just brought up on imperative programming and now you have a stupid, warped view of everything < 1290983291 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was brought up on shoving as much logic into one line as possible. < 1290983313 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I design a game, I will generally, also program it into the computer. I make a game differently than other one, but that is because I have different opinion than other one, is OK!? < 1290983314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Are there any mature-ish FRP libraries yet? < 1290983317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wareya: yes. you're hardcore. don't ever forget that. < 1290983323 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not hardcore. < 1290983331 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to be hardcore is the mark of a bad programmer, which I am. < 1290983339 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes and no. It's easy to do FRP if you know what application you're using it in.d < 1290983344 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: General FRP is... heh. < 1290983357 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: So just for some domains, or what? < 1290983359 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The current best solution for general FRP is to use a lazy specialiser implementaiton of a language. < 1290983368 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not because I try to be hardcore, it's because I can't think outside the box of having a main loop with an object instance manager. < 1290983374 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm pretty sure that at least with games, there are robust FRP libraries. But I don't do that, so I don't know. < 1290983399 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There are simple, general FRP implementations, but they leak space. Lazy specialisers fix this problem, but of course are far from mainstream language implementation and need runtime code generation. < 1290983410 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thankfully as an idealist OS developer, I can bundle as many runtime code generators as I like :) < 1290983474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: /lastlog lukepalmer... ah, I see. ;-P < 1290983478 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do a lot of people seem to suggest that Scala's only good part is the JVM thing? < 1290983492 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one who wants to see languages in terms of the language itself? < 1290983499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submit that that's its only bad part < 1290983510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without knowing most of the language < 1290983524 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People love justifying themselves in the simplest way possible. < 1290983526 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Shut up shut up I'm not identical to Luke Palmer SHUT UP < 1290983529 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Iukepalmer < 1290983533 0 :wareya!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, their things, not themselves. < 1290983534 0 :Iukepalmer!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1290983538 0 :Iukepalmer!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :elliott < 1290983561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chops off three serifs
< 1290983563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala is stupid. < 1290983578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm just wondering what you would've answered if I'd've asked, say, 24 hours ago < 1290983590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the same actually < 1290983596 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, howso? < 1290983598 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just wasn't planning to use FRP in my OS until today :P < 1290983601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd already read all the materials. < 1290983621 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: "Hooray! Functional power with Java flexibility! What's that? Our free mixing of effectful and stateless code has meant we can't do obvious program transformations? Our programs aren't composable? All of functional programming's benefits gone? ...Well, at least it runs on Java!" < 1290983637 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: But no, general FRP doesn't really exist right now. Ho hum. < 1290983733 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or should I say "we know exactly how to do it, and it's really hard" :P < 1290983756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "All benefits" is a bit of a stretch, sounds like Haskell loses all the benefits because it has an IO monad :-P < 1290983763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But yeah, alright. < 1290983775 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: "All benefits" is a bit of a stretch, sounds like Haskell loses all the benefits because it has an IO monad :-P < 1290983790 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it would if everyone made all their functions result in IO and just made pure functions be "return whatever". < 1290983815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they don't segregate purity statically at all? < 1290983828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a bit of a shame < 1290983833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think so. < 1290983842 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Or if they do it's clearly not very effective, as you can e.g. call java methods for math or whatever. < 1290983843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Disclaimer: I know hardly any Scala) < 1290983856 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: And presumably they haven't segregated "pure Java API functions" from impure ones because that'd be a *gigantic bitch* to do. < 1290983863 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Plus they'd have to do it for every Java library ever. < 1290983876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: They can have done it for just java.lang.Math, of course. :-P < 1290983881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or was it util.Math. < 1290983883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1290983890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lang. I think. < 1290983900 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Considering that everyone goes OMG SCALA YOU CAN CALL INTO JAVA CODE ITS WONDERFUL, I doubt that. < 1290983925 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290983926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if it's user-specifiable, they can just do it a bit at a time. < 1290983933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let the users worry about what's not done. < 1290983934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I doubt that. < 1290983943 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have read little bits of Scala and written my own simple programs. < 1290983953 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I keep track on the general functional programming whateverosphere. < 1290983956 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have never heard of that once. < 1290983958 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, I doubt it. < 1290983974 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to hotswap Haskell
< 1290983985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That "everyone" that goes like that presumably is not the crowd that would write pure functions anyway. ;-P < 1290983998 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: One wonders what they see in Scala. < 1290984008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me. < 1290984008 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: (Perhaps it's the shorter anonymous function syntax.) < 1290984025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax has a weird flexibilit < 1290984028 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexibility < 1290984034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you seen specs? < 1290984051 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily saying it's "good", just perhaps a reason some people like Scala < 1290984108 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many surrealists does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to hold the giraffe and three to fill the bathtub with brightly colored machine tools. < 1290984397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:37:30 augur: What with mud being /just/ a complex assortment of organic and inorganic molecules some of which are dissolved into and others of which are suspended in water. < 1290984398 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i concur < 1290984430 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1290984436 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott is agreeing with me on something < 1290984437 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1290984440 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1290984443 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agreed with Gregor there < 1290984456 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:41:18 Y'know what people? Curry chicken is JUST chicken and curry powder. SUCK IT. < 1290984458 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally agree < 1290984460 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do that < 1290984468 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:42:18 Gregor: no, it doesnt. curry chicken needs at least some sort of liquid. < 1290984469 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commie < 1290984471 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1290984471 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1290984491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt really read what you wrote < 1290984520 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: shut up commie < 1290984525 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:43:21 i know because im a linguist! < 1290984527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you mean linguistician < 1290984531 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1290984533 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:43:57 Linguistics has little to do with cuisine. < 1290984535 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's food linguistics < 1290984544 0 :GreaseMonkey!~gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1290984584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:14 non-compositionality, bitches < 1290984584 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:49:17 get used to it < 1290984590 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: sounds like something an imperative programmer would say < 1290984600 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1290984607 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:51:05 Gregor: Which are clearly not curry made with potato chips. < 1290984608 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i approve of this < 1290984611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea < 1290984620 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've had curry potato chips. < 1290984622 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They ... aren't that good. < 1290984623 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noncompositionality is just the fact that some phrases have meanings that dont derive from the meanings of their parts < 1290984632 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: 23:50:51 * Gregor continues to read but not participate in this conversation while munching on curry potato chips. < 1290984638 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes you have, that's what inspired pikhq to say that :P < 1290984647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: But I approve of the idea of curry made with crisps. < 1290984649 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to order pizza :T < 1290984661 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : noncompositionality is just the fact that some phrases have meanings that dont derive from the meanings of their parts < 1290984662 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precisely! < 1290984666 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/meanings/results/ < 1290984667 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/meanings/results/g < 1290984668 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1290984669 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Oh ... OK, that'd also be bad, but curry PO-TA-TO-CHIPS also aren't good. < 1290984679 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1290984686 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: s/bad/BRILLIANT/; s/PO[^ ]+/CRISPS/ < 1290984711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:51:21 ask them if curry chicken can be just chicken coated with curry then fried < 1290984711 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:51:27 bet you the answer will be no. < 1290984713 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY IS NOBODY DOING THIS < 1290984715 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to play double-loaded dice chess? < 1290984731 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Presumably removing the word "potato" isn't a British-vs-American thing, just a "I choose to be ambiguous" thing? :P < 1290984746 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Or do you call tortilla and corn chips something other than crisps? < 1290984751 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Yes, because "potato chips" minus "potato" is "crisps". < 1290984756 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Because chips = crisps. < 1290984761 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: You fail at sentences :P < 1290984765 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1290984773 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Doritos are crisps, yes. < 1290984775 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I was pointing out that in addition to making the change, you're ALSO removing the word potato. < 1290984786 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. "potato crisps" is valid but just sounds weird. < 1290984788 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We call them crisps. < 1290984804 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: In fact all of those are crisps. Chips are big chunky pieces of potato that you deep-fat fry, or French fries. < 1290984815 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I KNOW THAT >_< < 1290984817 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never do you say "potato chips"... well, I guess you could make chips out of like... turnips or something. < 1290984823 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then you'd have cause to disambiguate to "potato chips". < 1290984826 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then you're CRAZY. < 1290984829 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about CRISPS X_X < 1290984830 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: NO YOU DON'T < 1290984833 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE A FILTHY AMERICAN BASTARD < 1290984854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: To us, "chips" are only big chunky pieces of potato that you deep-fat fry in the context of fish & chips. < 1290984862 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SAY IT! SAY "POTATO CRISPS"! SAY IT FOR DISAMBIGUATION YOU TOOTHLESS BRITISH PUNK < 1290984866 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's just because you're stupid < 1290984878 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Is that your impression of all Brits? :P < 1290984916 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:01 I'm part-Ashkenazi, and nobody cares whether you're religiously Jewish for you to be a Jewish comedian anyway :P < 1290984917 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:59:25 i thought jews are like the OPPOSITE of nazis < 1290984922 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did oklopol not get showers of praise for this < 1290984925 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: From my one visit to Britain, I think I can say with fair certainty that Brits have less of a penchant for tooth maintenance than Americans, which is not to say that their teeth are naturally worse, just that they don't give a shit, so the lower-bound is lower. < 1290984966 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: It also may be that you think teeth being slightly yellow is a sign of not enough maintenance, rather than being a sign of not drinking bleach :P < 1290984979 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Americans are a bit fanatic about the aesthetic appearance of teeth. < 1290984989 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, pikhq: Yes, exactly :P < 1290984993 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "X"? < 1290985009 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: However, Britain has healthier teeth on average. < 1290985011 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, up again < 1290985013 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Did that have... any context at all? < 1290985026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: "X" was my "t". Anyway, elsewhere a moment. < 1290985044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're just yellow and crooked, rather than bleached white and mangled into straightness. < 1290985059 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had orthodontia 8-D < 1290985085 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to play: double-loaded dice chess? monstery poker? monstery Landlord game? any kind of charades game where all motions must be equivalent? < 1290985109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, just like many Americans. < 1290985110 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they're not that crooked :P < 1290985132 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes they are :P < 1290985139 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Is orthodontia very commonly practiced there? < 1290985162 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a PERMANENT piece of metal in my teeth. It is glued into my teeth and there for my entire life. Keep that in mind when answering :P < 1290985173 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: they exist, yes. i went to see one because i have a tooth that, instead of going down like it should, decided it didn't have enough space and took two years to jut out slightly above the other two teeth < 1290985180 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that the only telephone in all of hell, allows local calls only, please? < 1290985185 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Braces are *very* common in the US. < 1290985190 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: there was an appointment made for the next day to take it out. < 1290985192 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1290985196 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to take one next to it out so it could descend < 1290985198 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wimped out : < 1290985199 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1290985203 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have that tooth jutting out. < 1290985205 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It causes me no real problems. < 1290985211 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't use it :P < 1290985264 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll probably get it taken out at some point < 1290985268 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's useless < 1290985280 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I think you just proved our point :P < 1290985283 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it does hide the slight gap < 1290985293 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I'm a /rare/ case, there is absolutely no reason that tooth didn't come out :P < 1290985309 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You're talking about the removal of one tooth, not years of braces. < 1290985317 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I would have gone along with it except I'm a fucking wimp and a dentist injecting my gums and then ripping out a tooth sounded like the worst day ever. < 1290985362 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I had all four of my wisdom teeth taken out in one sitting. PUSSY. < 1290985375 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I think one of my teeth at the back is a wisdom tooth... maybe. < 1290985392 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I had an Herbst Appliance ... worst thing ever. < 1290985451 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Does it look like this? http://personal5.iddeo.es/mmoreira/images/braces/lisa_simpsons.jpg < 1290985461 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1290985463 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, yes it does/ < 1290985464 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does. < 1290985467 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god < 1290985522 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, that's headgear. < 1290985534 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Headgear would have been a welcome relief from the fucking Herbst appliance. < 1290985557 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I broke that Herbst appliance hundreds of times. I SHEARED THE FUCKING METAL NAILS RIGHT IN HALF. < 1290985562 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles headgear
< 1290985563 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck. < 1290985579 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: i think that your idea of dentistry is... um... excessive < 1290985589 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not dentistry, it's orthodontia :P < 1290985593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: you do realise slightly yellow teeth are natural right? and that slightly crooked teeth don't feel problematic at all? :D < 1290985601 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all crazy bastards, i'm proud of our british teeth < 1290985604 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they're not pretty! < 1290985611 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is headgear :P < 1290985617 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have a proud, jutting American chin thanks to my Herbst appliance! < 1290985624 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You don't wear headgear in public, only while sleeping :P < 1290985624 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X-D < 1290985630 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: I like to think that you do. < 1290985634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't Lisa? < 1290985639 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I swear she did in that episode. < 1290985641 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :America is so fucked up. :P < 1290985647 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: We're fucking crazy. < 1290985652 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really are. < 1290985661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: If it makes you feel better, I haven't had braces. < 1290985667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or tooth whitening. < 1290985673 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good. don't. < 1290985676 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see here, our whitening system is < 1290985677 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toothpaste < 1290985684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every single fucking toothpaste is sold because it's WHITENING < 1290985695 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably has bleach in it :P < 1290985702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can purchase tooth bleaching kits over the counter here. < 1290985738 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The toothpaste is of course all whitening toothpaste here. < 1290985741 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, so is the water. < 1290985787 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think celebrities get like tooth whitening but they're practically americans as far as i'm concerned < 1290985811 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ryani.freeshell.org/nat_0.txt A proof that 0 is a natural number! < 1290985828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common procedure! < 1290985851 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, freeshell.org still exists. < 1290985880 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: lawl SDF < 1290985890 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: All I remember about SDF is that the administrator is a huge asshole :P < 1290985911 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Not enough of an asshole to not offer free shells in two-thousand-and-fucking-ten. < 1290985919 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't ever think for one moment that you have won. < 1290985975 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: IIRC someone said something about not buying a premium account because of the cost as an aside in some random thing that was related (although I forget how), and he spent a whole post saying that they probably scavenged out the back of a McDonald's for food because they're so poor and worthless :P < 1290986023 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right *shrugs* < 1290986037 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should offer free plash-based shells :P < 1290986070 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Y'know, standard Unix is meant to be secure in a multi-user environment :P < 1290986078 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT - SECURE - ENOUGH < 1290986082 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only when multiple people get one user that it's an issue. < 1290986095 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might want to disable world reading access to home directories though :P < 1290986098 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Offer plash-based shells with home directories that are accessible by Hackiki if you have set the permissions. < 1290986116 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what XD < 1290986120 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: There ya go! Now it's all coming together X-D < 1290986124 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/public_hackiki/ < 1290986136 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: omg and let people query egobot with commands here < 1290986137 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1290986140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. That can work, too, I think. < 1290986142 0 :Phantom_Hoover!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290986144 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ egobot bf ',[.,]!hello' < 1290986166 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: WAIT, run the system on ... whatever the fuck your POSIX-on-other-OSes thing was called. < 1290986183 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Give shell access exclusively by DirectNet! < 1290986185 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microcosm; and it's not mine, I just started it because other people insisted, I want it to be theirs :P < 1290986191 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Write the server in Plof! < 1290986200 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point I really need to combine EgoBot with HackBot to make a meta-egotistical thing. < 1290986200 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Match the colours for the DirectNet messages with your neural net! < 1290986209 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Make people compete in an FYB tournament to keep their accounts! < 1290986213 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um... < 1290986215 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Thank you for listing my astounding accomplishments :P < 1290986218 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Run the system on JSMIPS! < 1290986222 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Haven't even mention--there ya go. < 1290986228 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: PUT THE BABY IN IT < 1290986241 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And power it with # Diet Cherry Vanilla Orange Grape Lemon Lime Mint Roast Chicken Mayonnaise and Cola Dr. Pepper. < 1290986245 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/# // < 1290986251 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice copy-paste there :P < 1290986253 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: Also store configuration files in RXML. Somehow. < 1290986258 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And kill yourself. < 1290986269 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also put the computer inside a PVC instrument-computer-case hyrbid. < 1290986271 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hybrid. < 1290986275 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And thus ends my enumeration of codu.org's contents. < 1290986288 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does RXML means? < 1290986295 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't want to know :P < 1290986300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants to kno
< 1290986303 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :know < 1290986304 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you don't < 1290986305 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://codu.org/rxml.php < 1290986306 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://codu.org/rxml.php < 1290986333 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: http://codu.org/rxml.php < 1290986374 0 :Gregor!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: http://codu.org/porno/ < 1290986381 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 :( < 1290986389 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: At least make it 403 :P < 1290986389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get the x=1 y=1 in the layer < 1290986389 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1290986400 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: presumably you can move layers around or something < 1290986406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it 907 so that you can confuse you < 1290986421 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I confuse me all the time with invalid HTTP response codes. < 1290986466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Config files in RXML: Picture of text in MS Comic Sans < 1290986519 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: for once i support Sgeo's idea, make it do that. < 1290986539 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: did i mention that you should have to play ZEE to find the server address? < 1290986582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: And, um, I give up :P < 1290986614 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: How did you carbonate your beverages again? I'm just stalking all of codu now/ < 1290986615 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now. < 1290986642 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[# 1 Tbsp "imitation vanilla flavoring" (those using real vanilla extract will naturally need much less)]] < 1290986647 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No they won't, you can never have too much vanilla. < 1290986669 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: No, it will just make it optionally, I guess. < 1290986708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails o comprehend zzo38's statement
< 1290986712 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to < 1290986712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ♥ vanilla. < 1290986728 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best alcoholic beverage ever. :P < 1290986739 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: getting intoxicated on vanilla would be the best thing ever < 1290986743 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you ever tasted pure vanilla extract? < 1290986757 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ambrosia. < 1290986763 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nectar. < 1290986764 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1290986930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I have < 1290986938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: let us just < 1290986939 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drink it forever < 1290986971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's alcoholic? < 1290986991 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Glug glug glug. < 1290987000 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Alcohol is the solvent used for the extract. < 1290987000 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: "Subtlty" is not a word; comic 54. < 1290987038 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: There's been at least one DUI from drinking vanilla. < 1290987061 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: this knowledge is my favourite knowledge < 1290987104 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even more than the knowledge that just because someone said "You are now breathing manually", doesn't mean that when you forget, you are going to die? < 1290987183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I want to try vanilla extract now, but I don't want the alcohol < 1290987237 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would happen if I tried vanilla powder? < 1290987265 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You would be explosive; that is, assuming that you tried explosive vanilla powder! < 1290987356 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, try in what sense? < 1290987369 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The same sense of drinking vanilla extract < 1290987380 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, but isn't that a powder? < 1290987391 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't think you quite understand alcohol < 1290987392 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, of tiny black dots < 1290987392 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I put a powder on my tongue < 1290987397 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think you quite understand vanilla essence < 1290987404 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1290987406 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is a powder < 1290987408 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry misread Sgeo < 1290987409 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, vanilla as in the thing you use for icecream? < 1290987411 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1290987413 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes :P < 1290987416 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I missed that Sgeo said powder < 1290987424 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, how is alcohol involved in this? < 1290987426 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote Hmm. I want to try vanilla extract now, but I don't want the alcohol < 1290987434 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sgeo: Alcohol is the solvent used for the extract. < 1290987438 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1290987445 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: vanilla essence is vanilla-flavoured alcohol :P but Sgeo worrying about the alcohol from it = LOL < 1290987456 0 :HackEgo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :264| Hmm. I want to try vanilla extract now, but I don't want the alcohol < 1290987457 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck drinking enough to have any effect on anything... at all < 1290987465 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1290987483 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but the powder is just crunched vanilla iirc? < 1290987492 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: presumably < 1290987494 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elliott: There's been at least one DUI from drinking vanilla. < 1290987501 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That person ingested a whole tank of vanilla :P < 1290987508 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you SEEN how tiny the bottles are? < 1290987518 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Also, the taste is VERY strong. Drinking a teaspoon would be difficult. < 1290987521 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, but actually using fresh vanilla pods for your icecream tastes way better < 1290987525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: You can get very large bottles of it. < 1290987525 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I had that once or twice < 1290987527 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One or two drops gives a very strong taste. < 1290987530 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well right but why would you want to < 1290987535 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it can't be compared to the usual icecream < 1290987537 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is that good < 1290987540 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's not like you'll ever use it up ever :P < 1290987546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: My mom bought a couple once. A few years back. < 1290987548 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still have it! < 1290987560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thankfully, it's very good vanilla. < 1290987572 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What you need to be able to buy gallons of: MAPLE SYRUP. < 1290987576 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1290987579 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that is like cayenne pepper. You buy it once every 10/20 years and it lasts forever. < 1290987582 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It is SO EXPENSIVE ;_; so you should just be able to buy it in bulk and keep it forever < 1290987589 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: US probably has it ok, you're close to canada < 1290987593 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada obviously has it in abundance < 1290987596 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the UK it costs tons < 1290987600 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You haven't seen my consumption of spice. < 1290987605 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, it is quite expensive yes < 1290987606 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what about < 1290987609 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ice cream with spice < 1290987610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: The US also manufactures maple syrup. < 1290987612 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maple syrup < 1290987628 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes but if you could buy "Canadian Maple Syrup" with a maple leaf on it or "American Maple Syrup" with the star-spangled banner < 1290987631 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: tell me honestly now < 1290987634 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: which would you buy < 1290987643 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I believe the glass bottle with cayenne downstairs is from the early 1970s, though mostly empty now < 1290987671 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :large metal new strainers > small plastic disgusting strainers < 1290987676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Depends on where in the US. < 1290987684 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: STAR SPANGLED BANNER < 1290987693 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are you going to try vanilla essence or are you drunk enough already < 1290987703 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, btw made a bunker myself. < 1290987706 0 :Vorpal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, night → < 1290987786 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine using a drop of vanilla every half hour :/ < 1290987809 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or less < 1290987818 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You might become dependent. < 1290987838 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell if you're serious, but if you are, maybe I should stay away < 1290987938 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Dude, you are crazy. < 1290987940 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell him he's crazy. < 1290987945 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Tell him how difficult it would be to get drunk. < 1290987964 0 :augur!~augur@129.2.129.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1290987970 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hypothetically, would there be a problem with just trying the powder? < 1290987978 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It would taste like... powder. < 1290987995 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1290988231 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1290988401 0 :elliott!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what is the secret of specialisation < 1290988530 0 :poiuy_qwert!~poiuy_qwe@dsl-69-172-108-252.acanac.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1290988580 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have an idea of how the computation class would vary by doing [1] a variant of FlooP with a REDPROGRAM command added, [2] a variant of BlooP with a REDPROGRAM command added?